MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: mileskishnish72 on June 07, 2022, 05:46:39 PM
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I’ve got to admit, this is a topic I have not followed closely. I get the basics, but could my fellow MU fans flesh it out for me? What’s allowed, what isn’t, and why do I keep reading on Scoop that MU is disadvantaged on this issue?
Thanks in advance.
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Right now, the rules are kind of like the Wild West. It's not supposed to be used for recruiting, but there's really no way to stop that. Considering the NCAA's losses at state houses and the Supreme court, it's hard to imagine their new plans will have much teeth.
Marquette is moving on this, but taking a cautious approach (as they always do). They have gone through two different companies (Inflncr, Altius) to get it started and also have Travis Diener and Steve Novak running the "Be the Difference NIL" which is raising money to fund NIL opportunities for student-athletes by partnering with charities that Marquette University already works with. I am very strongly led to believe Justin was given an offer from BtD, but no offer was going to outbid an NBA guarantee, which leads me to believe he's in better position than most mocks are indicating.
People saying we are disadvantaged are largely playing the Chicken Little role. The same donors that fund our robust basketball budget (even adjusted with Fiserv rental) have the same motivation to give to NIL. So the people that have made a practice to send a seven-figure check to B&G every Spring or agreed to pay Wojo's entire $6,000,000 buyout on a phone call will also be looking to keep MU competitive in the NIL space.
The BtD NIL was in the works for months before it was announced and while they haven't made any public disclosures, I heard awhile ago about a collective of heavy-hitter donors that I strongly suspect provided the seed money for this while using Diener, Novak, and Rob Jackson as the faces of the collective.
And yes, I wrote something critical of Marquette's medium pace on NIL. Wisconsin is one of a very few states with no NIL legislation, which means there really are no rules here for Marquette to violate. Maybe it's coincidence that it published on a Wednesday and after getting...let's say negative online feedback from Mike Broeker, the partnership with Altius Sports was announced the following Monday and the BtD NIL was announced Tuesday. Just like it was coincidence that I emailed Broeker last week to say "why is Marquette ignoring Justin's NBA announcement while posting videos of Kur and Darryl's NBA workouts" and a half-hour later there was a statement on all the socials thanking Justin.
We aren't taking the John Ruiz approach, but with our Athletic Department leadership, that was never going to be in the cards. We also don't have anyone transferring out (other than Greg, who was essentially thanked for his service after Senior Day) which means there's enough there to convince our current players not to test the waters. Our process will likely be quieter and slower than many of us like, but I disagree strongly that we are somehow disadvantaged. We have the people in place and the will to be competitive. We just won't broadcast it as much.
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The BtD NIL was in the works for months before it was announced and while they haven't made any public disclosures, I heard awhile ago about a collective of heavy-hitter donors that I strongly suspect provided the seed money for this while using Diener, Novak, and Rob Jackson as the faces of the collective.
Don't forget about Kiesha Oliver-Hayes. One thing unique about Marquette's collective is that it will also benefit women's basketball. This is not common in the slightest and I think will be a major boon to the women's program. It could even help with men's recruiting by winning over players' mothers.
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Don't forget about Kiesha Oliver-Hayes. One thing unique about Marquette's collective is that it will also benefit women's basketball. This is not common in the slightest and I think will be a major boon to the women's program. It could even help with men's recruiting by winning over players' mothers.
::)
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It makes absolutely no sense that rich donors would be willing to "save" the program with the Wojo buyout but would suddenly decide not to put $$ toward NIL to get Wojo's replacement the athletes he needs to win.
It's a big reason why I'm optimistic we'll be able to compete with most programs in this realm.
Besides, whining about it or crying about it won't change the fact that it's here.
I'd have embraced NIL anyway because it was patently unfair that archaic rules prohibited hard-working, law-abiding American adults from controlling their own names, images and likenesses.
Above and beyond that, I embrace it because it's now a big part of college athletics ... and we have no choice even if we don't like it.
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Besides, whining about it or crying about it won't change the fact that it's here.
2018: "Whining and crying won't change the fact that college athletes are not allowed to be paid"
;)
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2018: "Whining and crying won't change the fact that college athletes are not allowed to be paid"
;)
Huh?
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I haven’t taken the time to look this up or verify it but yesterday a Michigan St friend told me that MSU basically setup a donation site where anyone can donate and then they distribute it equally amongst the sport you decide to donate to.
I picture it as a website with a drop down of the sport, you pick one, then the next page you donate however much you want. I think that’s a pretty good idea
Also, I’m not sure if this is possible but I feel like players should get a percentage of ticket sales since they’re the ones actually playing the games. I’m sure the university and corporate suits don’t want to share pieces of their pie but again, I think that’d be a good idea
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Huh?
The point was lots of people whined and cried back in 2018 or for years about players not getting paid; I'm sure many people made the exact same point as you that whining and crying won't change that reality. But it did. Sometimes whining and crying works, so those of us in favor of NIL should not dismiss the critics and the whining and crying.
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The point was lots of people whined and cried back in 2018 or for years about players not getting paid; I'm sure many people made the exact same point as you that whining and crying won't change that reality. But it did. Sometimes whining and crying works, so those of us in favor of NIL should not dismiss the critics and the whining and crying.
I don't think anyone whining or crying anywhere made a difference. I think a lot of people advocating, writing legislation, petitioning their lawmakers, etc made a difference.
The key difference to between 2018 and now is that people in 2018 were "whining and crying" about an unjust and unethical practice. Usually once those are corrected, lawmakers rarely go back.
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The point was lots of people whined and cried back in 2018 or for years about players not getting paid; I'm sure many people made the exact same point as you that whining and crying won't change that reality. But it did. Sometimes whining and crying works, so those of us in favor of NIL should not dismiss the critics and the whining and crying.
Ah, now I understand.
See TAMU's response.
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It makes absolutely no sense that rich donors would be willing to "save" the program with the Wojo buyout but would suddenly decide not to put $$ toward NIL to get Wojo's replacement the athletes he needs to win.
It's a big reason why I'm optimistic we'll be able to compete with most programs in this realm.
This. I've been following this closely as its having a big impact on college football and I'm an Ohio State fan, who have obviously been heavily involved. What does make things interesting is if this will lead to decreased donations to athletic departments (particularly from big time donors)... for example, will a 5 million dollar check that previously refurbished the locker room go to a collective instead.
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This. I've been following this closely as its having a big impact on college football and I'm an Ohio State fan, who have obviously been heavily involved. What does make things interesting is if this will lead to decreased donations to athletic departments (particularly from big time donors)... for example, will a 5 million dollar check that previously refurbished the locker room go to a collective instead.
Donors don't make those kind of donations without direction from the athletic department. If a donor tells the athletic department that they want to donate $5 million to the collective, but the athletics department tells them that what they really need is $5 million to upgrade their facilities, most times that $5 million is going to end up buying a new locker room.
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Donors don't make those kind of donations without direction from the athletic department. If a donor tells the athletic department that they want to donate $5 million to the collective, but the athletics department tells them that what they really need is $5 million to upgrade their facilities, most times that $5 million is going to end up buying a new locker room.
So the schools are de-facto stewards of the potential NIL funds and will reroute funds from needy student athletes to the school? Brilliant.
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So the schools are de-facto stewards of the potential NIL funds and will reroute funds from needy student athletes to the school? Brilliant.
Isn’t the purpose of upgrading facilities to help with recruiting? I’m sure Shaka and the AD are smart enough to know where funds would be best utilized.
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So the schools are de-facto stewards of the potential NIL funds and will reroute funds from needy student athletes to the school? Brilliant.
If that's how you choose to see it. There will be plenty of money for both parties at high majors.
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There will be plenty of money for both parties
woohoo!
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Isn’t the purpose of upgrading facilities to help with recruiting? I’m sure Shaka and the AD are smart enough to know where funds would be best utilized.
I agree with you but one of the cornerstone arguments for NIL was that the schools and coaches already take way too much of the revenue.
I agree with NIL and I accept that funds from the pool of money supporting college athletics and now going to NIL will come from facilities, non-revenue sports and coaches salaries. Women's sports and other non-revenue sports don't add enough (NOT say anything) back to the schools to justify not supporting NIL instead.
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If that's how you choose to see it. There will be plenty of money for both parties at high majors.
Not at Alabama if you believe Saban.
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Not at Alabama if you believe Saban.
No one does
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Not at Alabama if you believe Saban.
The state literally repealed their NIL law because after seeing the NCAA's "actions" they decided their own law was too strict. That's the last place that will have any problems.
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Will MU get on the trading card band wagon like UW?
https://pjmedia.com/culture/chris-queen/2022/06/09/coming-soon-college-football-and-basketball-trading-cards-n1604382
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Will MU get on the trading card band wagon like UW?
https://pjmedia.com/culture/chris-queen/2022/06/09/coming-soon-college-football-and-basketball-trading-cards-n1604382
I think that is cool. I hope MU does follow suit.
Can't be much money in it, but it's fun.
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I think that is cool. I hope MU does follow suit.
Can't be much money in it, but it's fun.
this is ruining college sports
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Thanks for the instructive thoughts, Brew & TAMU.
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Here's a look on how not just football and men's basketball players are benefiting from NIL.
It's about North Carolina women's basketball star Deja Kelly, who has lucrative deals with Forever 21, Dunkin’ Donuts and Outback Steakhouse. She also has equity in a company called Drink Barcode as part of her deal with them.
“I’ve always carried myself as a brand; I’ve always made sure that Deja Kelly was seen as a brand on and off the court,” she said. “So I think that that has allowed a lot of these NIL deals to come into play for me.”
Kelly is represented by WME agency and her “team” there handles securing all of her deals. It’s allowed her to keep the business side separate from school and basketball and it’s how she’s been able to juggle it all without feeling overwhelmed.
www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/college/article262760123.html#storylink=cpy
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Now that the NBA and its players association plan to let players go directly from preps to pros again (per The National, and other outlets) -- effectively ending the One-And-Done Era -- it will be interesting to see if the presence of NIL influences some talented high schoolers to opt to go to college for a year or two anyway.
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Anyone have any specifics on the deal that Travis Diener worked for the men's and women's teams?
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Anyone have any specifics on the deal that Travis Diener worked for the men's and women's teams?
Every player got a 5 figure amount, mens and womens, a few on the mens teams got a lot more
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Every player got a 5 figure amount, mens and womens, a few on the mens teams got a lot more
Locker room dissensions incoming. No wonder OMax is getting no pub
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Was looking at the College Football recruiting classes yesterday and its clear NIL is ruining the sport.
Alabama, Notra Dame, Texas, Georgia and Oklahoma made up the latest Top 5. All becuase of NIL. I so long for the days of innocence before NIL.
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Every player got a 5 figure amount, mens and womens, a few on the mens teams got a lot more
I generally support the NIL, but I can't wrap my head around this at all...
1. "Be the Difference" paid women the same amount as men?
2. Why did some of the men's players get more? From "Be the Difference" or from additional NIL deals? I believe I heard Diener say the program was set to pay every player equally?
3. Are they allowed to enter into multi-year contracts? Can the contracts promote Shaka's belief that MU needs to win with 3 and 4-year veterans?
4. Who ends up funding this? I have no idea how much MU basketball brings in from its boosters, but that money can/should be funneled to "Be the Difference" instead? I would assume discussions are now being had at how much they ask for from a facilities/operations standpoint vs a players salary ("Be the Difference") standpoint?
5. How important is a coach? No matter how much Kentucky's "Be the Difference" brings in, they can pay their top 7 players a million per year, and have $2 million to hire a coach with the $9 million they currently pay Cal. I get that's extreme, and players want to play for a coach that develops them best...but it has to come into play? Obviously, the NBA places a higher value on players than coaches...
6. We'll surely see some players taking pay-cuts when their college eligibility expires?
7. The complexity of this probably rises to a level that all of my questions above are ignorant/stupid...and the considerations/planning is something I can't comprehend without a great level of experience in high-level college athletics?
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I generally support the NIL, but I can't wrap my head around this at all...
1. "Be the Difference" paid women the same amount as men?
2. Why did some of the men's players get more? From "Be the Difference" or from additional NIL deals? I believe I heard Diener say the program was set to pay every player equally?
3. Are they allowed to enter into multi-year contracts? Can the contracts promote Shaka's belief that MU needs to win with 3 and 4-year veterans?
4. Who ends up funding this? I have no idea how much MU basketball brings in from its boosters, but that money can/should be funneled to "Be the Difference" instead? I would assume discussions are now being had at how much they ask for from a facilities/operations standpoint vs a players salary ("Be the Difference") standpoint?
5. How important is a coach? No matter how much Kentucky's "Be the Difference" brings in, they can pay their top 7 players a million per year, and have $2 million to hire a coach with the $9 million they currently pay Cal. I get that's extreme, and players want to play for a coach that develops them best...but it has to come into play? Obviously, the NBA places a higher value on players than coaches...
6. We'll surely see some players taking pay-cuts when their college eligibility expires?
7. The complexity of this probably rises to a level that all of my questions above are ignorant/stupid...and the considerations/planning is something I can't comprehend without a great level of experience in high-level college athletics?
(https://i.imgflip.com/58crpz.jpg)
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I generally support the NIL, but I can't wrap my head around this at all...
1. "Be the Difference" paid women the same amount as men?
2. Why did some of the men's players get more? From "Be the Difference" or from additional NIL deals? I believe I heard Diener say the program was set to pay every player equally?
3. Are they allowed to enter into multi-year contracts? Can the contracts promote Shaka's belief that MU needs to win with 3 and 4-year veterans?
4. Who ends up funding this? I have no idea how much MU basketball brings in from its boosters, but that money can/should be funneled to "Be the Difference" instead? I would assume discussions are now being had at how much they ask for from a facilities/operations standpoint vs a players salary ("Be the Difference") standpoint?
5. How important is a coach? No matter how much Kentucky's "Be the Difference" brings in, they can pay their top 7 players a million per year, and have $2 million to hire a coach with the $9 million they currently pay Cal. I get that's extreme, and players want to play for a coach that develops them best...but it has to come into play? Obviously, the NBA places a higher value on players than coaches...
6. We'll surely see some players taking pay-cuts when their college eligibility expires?
7. The complexity of this probably rises to a level that all of my questions above are ignorant/stupid...and the considerations/planning is something I can't comprehend without a great level of experience in high-level college athletics?
You asked so many questions, and hot carried away that #7 isn’t even a question.
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You asked so many questions, and hot carried away that #7 isn’t even a question.
Thanks...answer 1-6 for me.
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13 (12 actual questions)…….i aint got time for that. Do some research…..easily answer half of them.
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13 (12 actual questions)…….i aint got time for that. Do some research…..easily answer half of them.
You've put a lot of time into my post already...why not answer 6.5 (actually 6) of my questions.
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You've put a lot of time into my post already...why not answer 6.5 (actually 6) of my questions.
Not really.
All men and women are getting paid a set $ amount. However, some of the men’s players are getting more $…..because they are presumably worth more.
That should answer about 4 of your questions.
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Not really.
All men and women are getting paid a set $ amount. However, some of the men’s players are getting more $…..because they are presumably worth more.
That should answer about 4 of your questions.
That didn't answer my question of where the money is coming from..."Be the Difference" or additional NIL's? "Be the Difference" is paying the MU women the same amount as some scholarship men? I thought someone on here might have information beyond the interviews that Diener did.
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10 alumni gave 100K each, to start the plan.
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10 alumni gave 100K each, to start the plan.
Money to be wasted on mediocre players.
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Locker room dissensions incoming. No wonder OMax is getting no pub
If OMax got any money he’d be in violation of his visa. Same deal for Okosun on WBB. Sucks for NRA kids.
The better play would be to fund Alston benefits. Every player would get $2990 per semester. Then others could go out and get NIL deals on their own. The effect of NIL has been vastly overstated, and there are coming crackdowns on Collectives.
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To me it seem like NIL should stand for Now I’m Lost.
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That didn't answer my question of where the money is coming from..."Be the Difference" or additional NIL's? "Be the Difference" is paying the MU women the same amount as some scholarship men? I thought someone on here might have information beyond the interviews that Diener did.
As it has been explained to me (by someone who told me Diener said too much) every player gets the same amount. Low five figures.
Anything additional comes from OTHER NIL deals, like the one Justin had last year with that restaurant.
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ESPN sent out requests for NIL from many school:
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/34739678/following-nick-saban-jimbo-fisher-nil-spat-schools-answer-call-transparency (https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/34739678/following-nick-saban-jimbo-fisher-nil-spat-schools-answer-call-transparency)
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Nike announced NIL deals with five high school and college basketball players on Monday: Bronny James, Caitlin Clark, Haley Jones, DJ Wagner and Juju Watkins.
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Nike announced NIL deals with five high school and college basketball players on Monday: Bronny James, Caitlin Clark, Haley Jones, DJ Wagner and Juju Watkins.
Good for these kids.
Remember, though, that Nike hands out these deals to help their own bottom line - not that of the kids.
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The big news there was DJ Wagner. It's thought that his list is down to Kentucky (Nike) and Louisville (Adidas). If he's signing with Nike, it pretty much rules out Louisville.
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The big news there was DJ Wagner. It's thought that his list is down to Kentucky (Nike) and Louisville (Adidas). If he's signing with Nike, it pretty much rules out Louisville.
That will be a big whiff by Kenny Payne and a bad start to his career at Louisville
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Good for these kids.
Remember, though, that Nike hands out these deals to help their own bottom line - not that of the kids.
Well, of course it's to help Nike's bottom line. But, in doing so, it does help the kids fatten their wallets. Doesn't mean Nike is being altruistic. It means Nike is being a business, which is what it is.
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Nike announced NIL deals with five high school and college basketball players on Monday: Bronny James, Caitlin Clark, Haley Jones, DJ Wagner and Juju Watkins.
Good for Bronny. Now he can afford to eat and go on dates when he gets to school.
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Locker room dissensions incoming. No wonder OMax is getting no pub
What does the meter say?
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Now he can afford to eat and go on dates when he gets to school.
You're right. Of course, you could say the exact same about any rich athlete's kid, any rich businessperson's kid, any rich entertainer's kid, any rich doctor's kid, any rich politician's kid, any rich lawyer's kid, etc etc etc.
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He is hardly the first to have a leg up because of who his father is.
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Nike announced NIL deals with five high school and college basketball players on Monday: Bronny James, Caitlin Clark, Haley Jones, DJ Wagner and Juju Watkins.
Business decision, not an evaluation of talent.
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Business decision, not an evaluation of talent.
Could be some of both. Indeed, should be some of both. Nike has a fiduciary duty to its shareholders.
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Could be some of both. Indeed, should be some of both. Nike has a fiduciary duty to its shareholders.
I’m guessing Nike is getting their money’s worth by all the press about Bronny James getting this deal. If he wasn’t on the list, I doubt it gets a mention.
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I’m guessing Nike is getting their money’s worth by all the press about Bronny James getting this deal. If he wasn’t on the list, I doubt it gets a mention.
Sounds like a smart move by Nike to include Bronny.
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Could be some of both. Indeed, should be some of both. Nike has a fiduciary duty to its shareholders.
(https://www.reactiongifs.com/r/dbts.gif)
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(https://www.reactiongifs.com/r/dbts.gif)
About what?
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About what?
It being at all about talent, its about name recognition, and likely a favor to Lebron to get his son's foot in the door and gain more exposure.
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It being at all about talent, its about name recognition, and likely a favor to Lebron to get his son's foot in the door and gain more exposure.
OK.
I don't know if somebody else said it was "all about talent," but I sure never did.
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OK.
I don't know if somebody else said it was "all about talent," but I sure never did.
You said its both. It isn't. Bronny isn't good.
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You said its both. It isn't. Bronny isn't good.
Perfect ... a Scoop semantics argument. Maybe we can keep it going for 3 pages. That'll entertain everybody.
What I said was:
Could be some of both -- COULD, which means might be or might not be -- and I was talking about all of the athletes named, not just Bronny.
Your opinion is that Bronny sucks and therefore it has zero to do with his basketball ability. You're entitled to that opinion. Please don't make up others' opinions.
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Perfect ... a Scoop semantics argument. Maybe we can keep it going for 3 pages. That'll entertain everybody.
What I said was:
Could be some of both -- COULD, which means might be or might not be -- and I was talking about all of the athletes named, not just Bronny.
Your opinion is that Bronny sucks and therefore it has zero to do with his basketball ability. You're entitled to that opinion. Please don't make up others' opinions.
Yup, and I'm glad you've taken the time to read what I wrote. Could be both, I said I doubted that. It's not because he is good.
It's a widely held opinion, not just mine.
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It being at all about talent, its about name recognition, and likely a favor to Lebron to get his son's foot in the door and gain more exposure.
You’re surprised the 17 year old son of Lebron James/Mr. Nike who has almost 7 million instagram followers is receiving an NIL deal?
FYI bronny is a top 50 talent. Will he be as great as his dad, definitely not, but he’s no scrub.
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Will he be as great as his dad, definitely not, but he’s no scrub.
Well he definitely can't get no love from Hards
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Well he definitely can't get no love from Hards
Lol !
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You’re surprised the 17 year old son of Lebron James/Mr. Nike who has almost 7 million instagram followers is receiving an NIL deal?
FYI bronny is a top 50 talent. Will he be as great as his dad, definitely not, but he’s no scrub.
No, I never said I was surprised. I just said it was based on business decision (quite literally because of his following and his fathers), not his basketball talent.
Reading is fundamental.
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No, I never said I was surprised. I just said it was based on business decision (quite literally because of his following and his fathers), not his basketball talent.
Reading is fundamental.
You mean Nike offering the kid with 7 million instagram followers with such a recognizable name isn’t totally based on basketball talent?
Uhhhh no duh
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You mean Nike offering the kid with 7 million instagram followers with such a recognizable name isn’t totally based on basketball talent?
Uhhhh no duh
Now you're caught up. I'm saying it's based solely on his marketability, and his basketball talent is not a factor.
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Now you're caught up. I'm saying it's based solely on his marketability, and his basketball talent is not a factor.
Is that right ? Are you going to tell me the sky is blue next ?
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Is that right ? Are you going to tell me the sky is blue next ?
Look man, you walked into the middle of a discussion between MU82 and myself. I'm not sure what sort of strange own you think this is, but the more you drag it out, the weirder it looks. If you don't read the thread, you don't have the context.
MU82 said that it could be a combo of Bronny's talent and his marketability, and I said his talent isn't really a factor in his signing with Nike.
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Look man, you walked into the middle of a discussion between MU82 and myself. I'm not sure what sort of strange own you think this is, but the more you drag it out, the weirder it looks. If you don't read the thread, you don't have the context.
MU82 said that it could be a combo of Bronny's talent and his marketability, and I said his talent isn't really a factor in his signing with Nike.
Stop the presses - major corporation signs up a marketable young star. No duh.
And of course his athletic ability has something to do with it. If he’s not a big time recruit, he’s not getting this deal. Hard stop.
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Hards, I’ll give you the last word. Have a nice night.
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Stop the presses - major corporation signs up a marketable young star. No duh.
And of course his athletic ability has something to do with it. If he’s not a big time recruit, he’s not getting this deal. Hard stop.
lol