MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: MU_Beav on June 05, 2022, 07:41:35 PM
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Enjoying - most immensely - the NCAA baseball playoffs. Amazing atmosphere and tons of talent - from tiny Canisius to big ol' UTK. For those who know how MU athletics/priorities work, I was curious about feasibility of MU baseball. With UConn performing well as the flagship BigEast program, it seems like MU could tap Wisconsin prospects, especially with Madison not fielding a team (not since the Larry Hisle, Jr. years). Perhaps weather concerns? Title IX? Anyway, just a blue sky, heart-of-the-off-season thought...thanks...
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Enjoying - most immensely - the NCAA baseball playoffs. Amazing atmosphere and tons of talent - from tiny Canisius to big ol' UTK. For those who know how MU athletics/priorities work, I was curious about feasibility of MU baseball. With UConn performing well as the flagship BigEast program, it seems like MU could tap Wisconsin prospects, especially with Madison not fielding a team (not since the Larry Hisle, Jr. years). Perhaps weather concerns? Title IX? Anyway, just a blue sky, heart-of-the-off-season thought...thanks...
Title IX would definitely be an issue with softball likely needing to also be added. Then of course where would they play? And I just don’t think this area generates enough talent these days.
They have also committed to lacrosse as their major spring sport. Which IMO makes a bunch of sense.
So I’m m left wondering “what’s the upside?”
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We’re too busy bringing back football.
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Why on earth would a school every voluntarily add a non revenue generating sport?
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Why have any non-revenue generating sports for that matter?
Why on earth would a school every voluntarily add a non revenue generating sport?
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Why on earth would a school every voluntarily add a non revenue generating sport?
We added lacrosse in 2011. Maybe call the athletic department and ask why on earth they did that.
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Why on earth would a school every voluntarily add a non revenue generating sport?
Enrollment. For instance...
Baseball roster size = 27
Baseball scholarship limit = 11.7
15.3 FTE students paying $25,000 in net tuition plus room and board = $380,000 in additional revenue.
IMO it would be tough to cover the costs with that. But you can see why MU makes such decisions for sports like lacrosse where you have facilities already available.
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Enrollment. For instance...
Baseball roster size = 27
Baseball scholarship limit = 11.7
15.3 FTE students paying $25,000 in net tuition plus room and board = $380,000 in additional revenue.
IMO it would be tough to cover the costs with that. But you can see why MU makes such decisions for sports like lacrosse where you have facilities already available.
We added lacrosse in 2011. Maybe call the athletic department and ask why on earth they did that.
Cost of lacrosse-
12.6 Scholarship players. Say each of those cost 25K per player. School losses 315k in tuition. It has up to 45 players.
32.4 non scholarship players. Each of them pays say 25k per head. School makes 810k in tuition. Stadium fees/upkeep- Negligible same because of soccer. Cost of equipment, travel, etc. About 600k. Can label it a spending 900k on the program, can use those "losses" to offset any gains elsewhere. In reality the lax team probably losses "200kish" per year. Not affected by weather.
Cost of baseball-
11.7 scholarship players. 292.5k in tuition spent on scholarship players. It has up to 35 players. 23.3 non scholarship players. 582.5 in tuition the players spend. NEW Stadium fees. (thats at a minimum 500k- probably closer to 1.2 million) NEW upkeep fees. Would probably actually loss the school close to 1 million dollars for the first few years. And would loss the school 500kish without startup costs. Affected by weather.
I think its pretty obvious why lax makes a lot more sense than baseball.
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Cost of lacrosse-
12.6 Scholarship players. Say each of those cost 25K per player. School losses 315k in tuition. It has up to 45 players.
32.4 non scholarship players. Each of them pays say 25k per head. School makes 810k in tuition. Stadium fees/upkeep- Negligible same because of soccer. Cost of equipment, travel, etc. About 600k. Can label it a spending 900k on the program, can use those "losses" to offset any gains elsewhere. In reality the lax team probably losses "200kish" per year. Not affected by weather.
Cost of baseball-
11.7 scholarship players. 292.5k in tuition spent on scholarship players. It has up to 35 players. 23.3 non scholarship players. 582.5 in tuition the players spend. NEW Stadium fees. (thats at a minimum 500k- probably closer to 1.2 million) NEW upkeep fees. Would probably actually loss the school close to 1 million dollars for the first few years. And would loss the school 500kish without startup costs. Affected by weather.
I think its pretty obvious why lax makes a lot more sense than baseball.
Not to mention that Marquette already recruits extensively in areas that are generating lacrosse talent. Baseball is a west coast and southern sport almost exclusively these days. Since, 2000 here is a comprehensive list of the teams from the upper midwest to make the CWS:
2002 - Notre Dame
2013 - Indiana
2018 - Michigan
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Cost of lacrosse-
[Redacted: not relevant to initial question]
I think its pretty obvious why lax makes a lot more sense than baseball.
This is what I was addressing:
Why on earth would a school every voluntarily add a non revenue generating sport?
You didn't ask about lacrosse vs baseball, you asked why a school would voluntarily add a non-revenue generating sport. Aside from Sultan's financial reasonings, it also provides exposure, entertainment, and the opportunity to fundraise. The answers to your question were pretty self-evident, so it just seems like a silly thing to ask, but if you insist on asking it, better to ask the athletic department that recently did exactly what you asked about (and are still in the process of doing with eSports, for example).
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Not that Marquette has a chance of joining this list, but there are schools, mostly in the South, where baseball is a revenue-generating sport.
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Also, I believe there are conference requirements for number of sports. If I remember right, MU was pretty close to the minimum. I thought adding Lacrosse also helped them have a stronger foothold with Big East schools while realignment was in full swing. Granted, Basketball was always the main asset there.
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Marquette has 8 of the 10 sports sponsored by the BE (only exceptions are baseball and swim and dive), and 8 of the 12 women's sports (field hockey, golf, softball, swim and dive).
That's a pretty good mix. There are schools that have less than Marquette.
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Can't wait for the conference games to be canceled due to snow. Then there's the whole having to play in 38 degree weather the entire season.
College baseball and the north just don't mix.
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Why on earth would a school every voluntarily add a non revenue generating sport?
Opportunities for students to compete and a net gain to campus life.
Georgetown has 29 intercollegiate teams and just added a 30th. Of these, 24 of them have no revenue generation (those that do: men's basketball at the top of that list, then football, men's lacrosse, men's soccer, with women's soccer, women's basketball, and women's lacrosse trailing). But non-revenue teams build some of the most loyal alumni down the road, the people who come back to support endowments and build dorms. The universities with the best alumni giving rates tend to be those that provided students a campus life that they look back upon and want to maintain for the next generation.
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To be fair, DFW, the men's basketball team isn't generating much revenue through attendance.
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Can't wait for the conference games to be canceled due to snow. Then there's the whole having to play in 38 degree weather the entire season.
College baseball and the north just don't mix.
I'm not sure about the state of the turf at AmFam Field during the winter, but the Big East baseball season starts in mid-February and the Brewers don't start playing there until the end of March at the earliest. After the MLB season starts, it would probably be relatively easy to schedule dates there between Brewers road trips and off days.
I have no idea what renting AmFam Field would cost, but it's not like the place is too busy in January through the end of March.
Obviously all conjecture, but I don't think there are too many issues there that couldn't be overcome if there was genuine interest in starting a baseball program.
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I'm not sure about the state of the turf at AmFam Field during the winter, but the Big East baseball season starts in mid-February and the Brewers don't start playing there until the end of March at the earliest. After the MLB season starts, it would probably be relatively easy to schedule dates there between Brewers road trips and off days.
Big East teams don't play in MLB parks. Franklin Field (Milkmen Stadium) would be a great choice, and it's not in heavy rotation until early May.
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Big East teams don't play in MLB parks. Franklin Field (Milkmen Stadium) would be a great choice, and it's not in heavy rotation until early May.
Well, it's UWM's home park with their branding and colors all over the place.
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I'd like to see hockey as the next sport.....but I know it's expensive and needs a counter women's sport. So it's probably in the 'football' area of likelihood or when monkeys fly.
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Getting the high school season in during WI "springs" is a nightmare. Can't imagine trying to play a college season in Milw. Obvs that UWM does it, but still don't think it would be worth it. And I'm a big baseball guy.
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Getting the high school season in during WI "springs" is a nightmare. Can't imagine trying to play a college season in Milw. Obvs that UWM does it, but still don't think it would be worth it. And I'm a big baseball guy.
UConn played nine games in Florida, one at home, then eight games in California before settling down to a more "normal" schedule in mid-March.
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Not that Marquette has a chance of joining this list, but there are schools, mostly in the South, where baseball is a revenue-generating sport.
There are schools, mostly in the South, that would start a tiddly-winks team if it became an NCAA sport, and there would be people who would pay to watch it.
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I played on Marquette's club baseball team in 2003 and quit after one season because our facilities were so bad. I forget which gym we practiced indoors at - but we had pitchers throwing in front of a white wall, as a catcher it was nearly impossible for me to pick up the ball and I took a number of pitches to back of the head after the ball sailed passed me and bounced off the wall that was no more than 3-4 feet behind me.
It was fun times.
It would take a major, major facilities upgrade to even make baseball remotely possible at Marquette.
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I personally would love to add baseball, but as for reasons mentioned, MU would never have a good team and it would be a money-sucking loser. UWM has had the whole state to themselves, a great new field to use, and they finish in the bottom half of one of the worst conferences in the NCAA. Even if MU built a new field, games are played in Feb/March/April, and the weather is awful (no attendance). Indoor/outdoor LAX makes a lot more sense than baseball.
Consider college baseball like college football. Be a total free agent and find a team to root for! For me, it's Arkansas. WPS!
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Opportunities for students to compete and a net gain to campus life.
Georgetown has 29 intercollegiate teams and just added a 30th. Of these, 24 of them have no revenue generation (those that do: men's basketball at the top of that list, then football, men's lacrosse, men's soccer, with women's soccer, women's basketball, and women's lacrosse trailing). But non-revenue teams build some of the most loyal alumni down the road, the people who come back to support endowments and build dorms. The universities with the best alumni giving rates tend to be those that provided students a campus life that they look back upon and want to maintain for the next generation.
A friend of mine was one of those Georgetown alumni who got her start in a non revenue sport and has given back multiple millions. To me the Olympic sports , as they call them , are basically long term revenue generators for the better grade universities .
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Marquette has 8 of the 10 sports sponsored by the BE (only exceptions are baseball and swim and dive), and 8 of the 12 women's sports (field hockey, golf, softball, swim and dive).
That's a pretty good mix. There are schools that have less than Marquette.
IF we were going to add new sport the new Rec Center provides an opportunity to add Swimming and Diving. No need for a new sport specific facility. 9.9 scholarships for the Men, 14 for the Women (you don't need to offer those maximums, however). Xavier, for example, has 25 men and 26 women on their rosters. That is a sport where the population generally comes from higher incomes too, a potential benefit down the road for MU.
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IF we were going to add new sport the new Rec Center provides an opportunity to add Swimming and Diving. No need for a new sport specific facility. 9.9 scholarships for the Men, 14 for the Women (you don't need to offer those maximums, however). Xavier, for example, has 25 men and 26 women on their rosters. That is a sport where the population generally comes from higher incomes too, a potential benefit down the road for MU.
Is the new rec center going to have a completely new aquatic center? The current swim facility isn't anywhere close to adequate for a D1 program.
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Is the new rec center going to have a completely new aquatic center? The current swim facility isn't anywhere close to adequate for a D1 program.
I don’t know, but there is an opportunity to make it so if MU were interested in adding Swimming and Diving. Some programs don’t have Diving (Washington State, for example) either. I doubt it will happen but it would be more feasible than Baseball.