MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: tower912 on April 20, 2022, 08:20:44 PM
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To let Jay Wright have his much deserved tributes, let's move this here. How long until you retire? What are you looking forward to?
8 months or one bad day. I am looking forward to getting consistent sleep for the first time since I was a teenager.
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To let Jay Wright have his much deserved tributes, let's move this here. How long until you retire? What are you looking forward to?
8 months or one bad day. I am looking forward to getting consistent sleep for the first time since I was a teenager.
10+ years. Really don’t know what I’m looking forward to because there is a lot of time between now and then.
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To let Jay Wright have his much deserved tributes, let's move this here. How long until you retire? What are you looking forward to?
8 months or one bad day. I am looking forward to getting consistent sleep for the first time since I was a teenager.
20 yrs of service?
Our goal is 55, which is when our daughter graduates his school. Sell our house, buy a place in AZ or NM for winters, lake house for the rest of the year. Leave the People's Republic far behind. Probably would work part time or consult so we don't get too bored.
Or something. ;D
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When I go, it will be 32 years, 9 months of bad sleep, heavy turn out gear, exposure to chemicals and sick people, watching a lot of them die.
Good sleep.
My wife will continue working until the HS freshman graduates college.
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20 yrs of service?
Our goal is 55, which is when our daughter graduates his school. Sell our house, buy a place in AZ or NM for winters, lake house for the rest of the year. Leave the People's Republic far behind. Probably would work part time or consult so we don't get too bored.
Or something. ;D
First of May kinda something, hey?
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My wife and I retired in 2008 both at age 62. I could have worked longer but decided to stay home to take care of my dad who was suffering from Alzheimer’s. I don't think I could survive the corporate world today and happy for once yo being on the outside looking in.
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20 yrs of service?
Our goal is 55, which is when our daughter graduates his school. Sell our house, buy a place in AZ or NM for winters, lake house for the rest of the year. Leave the People's Republic far behind. Probably would work part time or consult so we don't get too bored.
Or something. ;D
Similar goals without the kids and without AZ or NM. Gross.
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I don't think of retiring at all. Quitting the corporate world in 3 more years (which will make it 35 total) to do my own thing is more likely. I could live off the dividends but that sounds like no fun. Would rather buy a small machine shop or a hotel or something in a small town in WI and make the 2nd half of my life interesting in a different way.
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My goal is to semi retire at age 66 and fully retire at age 70, but I really cannot imagine my life without being involved in the business world. Business has been the one constant in my life, starting at a very early age. I cannot remember one day in my life that my Dad's company, or now my company, has not been the top priority in my life. I do worry that I might struggle not having that action in my day to day life when I retire.
As for what I am looking forward to, spending a couple of months a year in Naples, FL, playing golf 3-5 times a week, traveling with my wife and enjoying every day with my kids and grandkids. I guess, enjoying my family is going to be my greatest joy in retirement.
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My goal is to semi retire at age 66 and fully retire at age 70, but I really cannot imagine my life without being involved in the business world. Business has been the one constant in my life, starting at a very early age. I cannot remember one day in my life that my Dad's company, or now my company, has not been the top priority in my life. I do worry that I might struggle not having that action in my day to day life when I retire.
As for what I am looking forward to, spending a couple of months a year in Naples, FL, playing golf 3-5 times a week, traveling with my wife and enjoying every day with my kids and grandkids. I guess, enjoying my family is going to be my greatest joy in retirement.
I think that is what makes retirement 'scary' for a lot of people, Goose. They feel like they're not useful anymore, or they don't know what to do with themselves. I think having a plan of what you want to do can help this, but I also think we never know how we will respond to one of the last major changes in life.
We employ a fair number of retirees that just need something to do so they don't drive themselves or their spouses crazy.
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4 years, 8 months, 3 weeks, 1 day. Not that I'm counting.
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Never
Dying in my office
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Eligible in about 10 years with 22 years of service at age 55. But I expect I'll work until at least 60 and might stay on the job until then depending on healthcare.
Honestly, it's just one more stress to think about when I'm already overstressed.
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Staying in the Game and Competing is what keeps me going, physically and mentally.
We have built a great team . Right now my focus is building a team that will replace those guys when they retire.
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I think that is what makes retirement 'scary' for a lot of people, Goose. They feel like they're not useful anymore, or they don't know what to do with themselves. I think having a plan of what you want to do can help this, but I also think we never know how we will respond to one of the last major changes in life.
We employ a fair number of retirees that just need something to do so they don't drive themselves or their spouses crazy.
We have also all witnessed people who retired early, get out of the game, and no longer have the skills to get back. My wife's best friend's husband retired at 58. After a few years, he was bored and his hobbies couldn't sustain him. Tried to re-enter the workforce, but the workforce kinda moved on.
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On the flip side, I've seen those that hang in there a bit too long, and end up dying or succumbing to health problems before they can enjoy the fruits of their labor.
A cautionary tale: a friend's spouse frequently asked him to retire and move to a warmer climate with her near one of their children. He kept on putting it off. They are financially comfortable. He finally agrees to shop for a residence in that southern coastal state. While there, she doesn't feel well. Ends up with a death sentence type of cancer diagnosis. He is now guilt ridden. Both are extraordinary people. He just loves his career too much.
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I think that is what makes retirement 'scary' for a lot of people, Goose. They feel like they're not useful anymore, or they don't know what to do with themselves. I think having a plan of what you want to do can help this, but I also think we never know how we will respond to one of the last major changes in life.
I was thinking about this a few years ago after talking to my grandma. My grandfather retired, as in sold his insurance agency, in his 60s, but didn't fully retire until his mid 70s. He still did financial consulting and a variety of other part time stuff in his field. She said one of the biggest helps to him...was the internet. Especially an iPad. Cause she said for so many, less technosavvy people their age...you wake up, have breakfast and read the paper....then what? Not that she was suggesting you sit on your iPad all day, but there is myriad stuff you can do. Reading articles, browsing, things to watch, puzzle games to play, etc...
I'm 36, I have a 25-30 years before I truly think about it, but I do wonder about my age group and different ways we have to eat up time. For people even 10 years older than me, video games were something you "aged" out of. But more and more people play video games well into their adult and parenting years. I'm not saying Gramps will be on the headset pwning noobz in Fortnite, but I absolutely envision myself still playing some sort of video games with my grandkids or into my later years. Not to mention the ways you can eat up 4 hours without breaking a sweat on the internet. Its almost like a more varied and flexible hobby to counter woodworking or golf or gardening.
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Suckers work past 40
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On the flip side, I've seen those that hang in there a bit too long, and end up dying or succumbing to health problems before they can enjoy the fruits of their labor.
A cautionary tale: a friend's spouse frequently asked him to retire and move to a warmer climate with her near one of their children. He kept on putting it off. They are financially comfortable. He finally agrees to shop for a residence in that southern coastal state. While there, she doesn't feel well. Ends up with a death sentence type of cancer diagnosis. He is now guilt ridden. Both are extraordinary people. He just loves his career too much.
We are only a couple generations removed from working until we die. So I get why people feel this way.
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I figure I've got another 12 years or so before retirement. My wife thinks I'm crazy, but I'd kind of like to open a tiny breakfast place to keep busy. If I could run it at least at break even, with some "regulars" every day for coffee and breakfast, I think I'd like that.
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Suckers work past 40
GME to the moon.
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GME TWTR to the moon.
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The FIRE (Financial Independence, Retire Early) community has some advocates for multiple retirements -- years-long breaks from your career while you spend down the money you've saved up.
I imagine the struggle of getting back in the workforce still exists, but not as much at 45 vs. at 60 like Clarissa's friend.
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Sir
That is a sad story about your friend. Balance is needed in life and you do need to enjoy everyday. Prayers out to your friend and his wife.
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A touch over 21 years to go to retire with full pension at 57.
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I envy those of you lucky enough to have pensions. They have done countless studies on which people live happiest in retirement and it's always retirees with guaranteed lifetime incomes(pensions and SS).
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Sir
That is a sad story about your friend. Balance is needed in life and you do need to enjoy everyday. Prayers out to your friend and his wife.
Thank you.
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Hopefully, no more than 3 more years full time, then at 63, practice part time, only taking things on that I can do from home. Then maybe split time between a warm weather place and the Hell weather that comes with the Midwest.
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Too many variables. Health, business climate, enjoying work, etc. Already qualify for SS. Just taking one day at a time. 8-)
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Actually the thing that scares the sh1t out of me about retiring is health care. Health care and insurance in the US is so incredibly expensive I don't know how to retire at 56 and pay for it until medicare starts at age 65. (not sure Medicare is very good, either!)
This leads to multiple options:
a) retire not in the US
b) take a job in Canada (or Australia, or any other place that you can work for citizenship. for 3 more years and get citizzenship in a country where there is decent and affordable health care
c) Buy a golden visa in a country where health care is affordable. In Dubai for example you can do this through a property purchase. Some of the golden visa's allow the holder to work.
Don't want to start a political discussion... it's all about affordability.
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20 years ago
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This is the big debate I'm having now. My wife and I will close on a new house in Florida next Tuesday and intend to sell the house in Chicago late this summer. If this looks like we are preparing for retirement, we are. The house here is really nice and built to accommodate our visitors well, giving them and us privacy.
The debate is over 2023 vs. 2024 vs. 2025. I was 65 in 2021 and I still love what I do. But, I want time to enjoy our lives while we still have the strength and health to do so. We have great times together when we travel and we truly enjoy each other's company (after 42 years of marriage and 46 years of knowing each other) The money in my job is good but we don't need it.
I suppose sometime in 2023, it will happen, but I have to figure out what I'm going to do!
Ideas?
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Ideas?
My brother in law retired a couple years ago from a desk job and now works at Home Depot four or five mornings a week from 5-9 helping with inventory. He loves it. It gets him out of the house, back home to spend most of the day with his wife, and the early hours keep him "on schedule." His boss doesn't care when he takes a day, or even a few days off.
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Just recently retired at age 56. Loving it so far...not missing work at all. Now my time is truly my own. Maybe that will change a few years down the road, but it's nice being (relatively) young\healthy enough to enjoy the fruits of working\saving\investing for all those years.
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Actually the thing that scares the sh1t out of me about retiring is health care. Health care and insurance in the US is so incredibly expensive I don't know how to retire at 56 and pay for it until medicare starts at age 65. (not sure Medicare is very good, either!)
This leads to multiple options:
a) retire not in the US
b) take a job in Canada (or Australia, or any other place that you can work for citizenship. for 3 more years and get citizzenship in a country where there is decent and affordable health care
c) Buy a golden visa in a country where health care is affordable. In Dubai for example you can do this through a property purchase. Some of the golden visa's allow the holder to work.
Don't want to start a political discussion... it's all about affordability.
Unless something changes in the future, Medicare is actually really good. If you can swing the cost of a supplement go that route as opposed to Medicare Advantage plan. Medicare A, B & D, with a supplement and you should have pretty good coverage.
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Actually the thing that scares the sh1t out of me about retiring is health care. Health care and insurance in the US is so incredibly expensive I don't know how to retire at 56 and pay for it until medicare starts at age 65. (not sure Medicare is very good, either!)
This leads to multiple options:
a) retire not in the US
b) take a job in Canada (or Australia, or any other place that you can work for citizenship. for 3 more years and get citizzenship in a country where there is decent and affordable health care
c) Buy a golden visa in a country where health care is affordable. In Dubai for example you can do this through a property purchase. Some of the golden visa's allow the holder to work.
Don't want to start a political discussion... it's all about affordability.
Depends on income and whether you are married and your wife still works.
At 56 and retired - your medical insurance is basically free if you can keep your adjusted income under $75,000 a year. I was able to do it - some cannot.
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Unless something changes in the future, Medicare is actually really good. If you can swing the cost of a supplement go that route as opposed to Medicare Advantage plan. Medicare A, B & D, with a supplement and you should have pretty good coverage.
Medicare A+B+D+supplement cost for one person is MORE than I currently pay (living outside the US) for a BUPA global policy for a family of 5. The BUPA policy has first dollar to $2m/year coverage, no deductibles and very broad coverage. It has only one condition: No medical treatment in USA. I can fly to Singapore to see my favorite doctors there, but nothing in USA because USA is just too expensive.
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I did not realize how "near retirement" age the demographics of scoop are skewed. I guess I should have realized it with continual comparisons to how things were in the 70's...
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Last kid should graduate college in just over 6 years, so 7 years for me. Hoping to do the digital nomad thing for a few years after that.
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Went part time - 25hrs/week 5 years ago (@ 41), never going back to full time. Still more productive than many of my coworkers, make more money than I spend (and way more than average), get FT benefits, get 6 day weekends whenever I want, and mentally I feel about 200% better.
At the time I was thinking about retiring, but PT has been a bit of a revelation. Plenty of cash and time to do what I want (which is not moderating here! lol) - I'll may stick with it until "they" don't want me anymore.
Honestly, the tech field needs to promote this more - as good employees are often overworked and switch jobs out of exhaustion.
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Went part time - 25hrs/week 5 years ago (@ 41), never going back to full time. Still more productive than many of my coworkers, make more money than I spend (and way more than average), get FT benefits, get 6 day weekends whenever I want, and mentally I feel about 200% better.
At the time I was thinking about retiring, but PT has been a bit of a revelation. Plenty of cash and time to do what I want (which is not moderating here! lol) - I'll may stick with it until "they" don't want me anymore.
Honestly, the tech field needs to promote this more - as good employees are often overworked and switch jobs out of exhaustion.
Its interesting. I think it wouldn't be a bad exercise to figure out how to better structure jobs and employees.
I have a work colleague/family friend who works for a large company in London that everyone knows. He's a bit of a legend in his industry, did myriad jobs in executive and management capacity and retired in his early-mid 60s. They tried to get him to stick around but he'd spent much of his 20s-40s in roles abroad and he wanted to take it easy and had plenty of money.
About 5-6 months into retirement, his former boss was like "listen, we really could use you with some of the initiatives you were working on, could you come back as a part time consultant?" He ended up coming back 2-3 days a week, for basically the same money he was making full time...and realized they never back filled him, he was essentially just doing his old job, with the administrative and managing work stripped away.
Now the point of this is not "execs do nothing and this proves it"...but more so, in many bigger companies, many positions and roles get slotted to do something or some tasks...and then never get re-evaluated. When I was at Pepsi, I had 3 roles. My first was a pretty solid 35-40 hours of work a week. Then I got promoted, and honestly, I could have done my job well and fully in 3 days a week, with another half day for assorted weekly meetings. Then I got promoted the last time, though the actual role was a lateral move...and the same sort of position on a different brand was 45-50 hours of work. It made no sense. But thats a different topic.
Back to the main topic, I'm always also interested in how retirement timelines and horizons and aspirations differ by job types as well as company types.
My job has tons of headaches, it can be immensely stressful and infuriating, but Ive spoken about how I sort of work from 730AM when I wake up...till 1130-midnight when I go to bed. And I don't mean that in an overworked capacity, just that there is a ton of ebb and flow to my job due to the international aspect of it, and I have plenty of pockets of time in the normal 9-5 workday that are lulls. Its never an issue to step out for errands or appointments. Similarly, my father is a workaholic but has eaten lunch at home 99% of days since he began the business for similar reasons. Additionally, I don't have set vacation days. Aside from something like my honeymoon last month, I'm pretty reachable or plugged in so I can take a week vacation without worry and not be out of touch. There is a lot of freedom in scheduling and location (without the absolute remote work/WFH aspect).
So looking like that, I could work for a long time pretty comfortably. Conversely, when I was at a F100 company, logging every vacation hour, rarely traveling for work outside of the office, schedule locked...I could see how the timeline suddenly becomes FARRR more pressing or plan dependent.
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I retired early (tech job) because there was a lot I wanted to do and not enough time. I offered to work part time but the company didn’t do that. 30 months later, they called asking if I would want to come back and work 3 days a week with minimal travel - only occasional trips to NYC.
I turned it down as I had too much going on between traveling with my wife and doing some coin and card dealing.
If they would have offered at the time I retired, I’d probably still be there.
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This is a very good thread. Thanks to Tower for starting it and everyone else who has posted their thoughts.
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36 now, plan to retire at 60. 24 years, sheesh! Hard to think about; one day at a time. Newborn coming in 2 weeks so not exactly hoping times flies. Enjoy everyday
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Dish
I agree, this is a great thread. I really enjoy hearing everyone’s comments on here. We all have different journeys in life and that makes life great. I hope more contribute to this thread.
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It has been fun. All because I didn't want to pollute the Jay Wright thread. Good insights, no fights. The common thread seems to be what happens after. I get that. I ponder that often. I know initially, I will be finally able to go to all of the concerts and all of the baseball games. That will be refreshing. Maybe I will even go to more MU games.
But the long run.... I don't know. I do know that it will be something that sounds like fun, not because I have to do something. Which is really cool.
I always enjoy when Tortuga stops by with financial thoughts. I completely agree with his assessment in this thread.
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I'd put it at 10-12 years, give or take, depending on the kids' college costs, the performance of my company (and its stock) and, honestly, how burned out I am by then. I imagine I won't retire completely then, but go freelancing.
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At this point I'm busy trying to figure out how to buy my first house. Retirement is a long way away, honestly not sure if we'll ever be able to afford it. The housing market right now is busted
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At this point I'm busy trying to figure out how to buy my first house. Retirement is a long way away, honestly not sure if we'll ever be able to afford it. The housing market right now is busted
I know it's not an easy thought right now, but once you've got one, don't stop there. I got lucky and bought my first rental for cheap at the bottom of the market in 2012. Small single family homes can always be rented to young professionals who generally take care of them.
Not for everyone, but extremely financially rewarding if you've got the stomach for it. I've never met a "poor" landlord, even during COVID.
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36. Based on current investing, saving and spending could retire in around 20 years. Tuition, large home improvements and vacation residence can vary this.
Realistically, probably work til about 63. Retire for 20 years and die properly at 83.
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36. Based on current investing, saving and spending could retire in around 20 years. Tuition, large home improvements and vacation residence can vary this.
Realistically, probably work til about 63. Retire for 20 years and die properly at 83.
I see what you did there.
IYKYK
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Retired 2 years ago at 57 and have never regretted it for one second.
I honestly can't imagine a job that I would enjoy better than all the stuff I have been doing instead.
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We are only a couple generations removed from working until we die. So I get why people feel this way.
Going forward, or back? I think working until we die is going to make a big comeback pretty soon. My wife is already seeing it in healthcare, where people are working well into their 70s because they don't have enough put away. And it amazes me how many people in their 30s haven't started saving for retirement, and because they just bounce job to job don't have any long term plans set up. I really think working into the grave is going to become really popular in the next few decades.
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Going forward, or back? I think working until we die is going to make a big comeback pretty soon. My wife is already seeing it in healthcare, where people are working well into their 70s because they don't have enough put away. And it amazes me how many people in their 30s haven't started saving for retirement, and because they just bounce job to job don't have any long term plans set up. I really think working into the grave is going to become really popular in the next few decades.
I agree with this 100%. When I bring up retirement savings with my close friends, I’m always surprised how little they have saved. Even my brother who is 3 years younger than me and does really well for himself, has half the 401k I do.
The best advice my dad gave me was to start a 401k and put as much as you can into it from day 1 after getting a job after MU (my brother didn’t listen as well as I did). I think 20-30 years from now could be ugly for a lot of people.
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The best advice my dad gave me was to start a 401k and put as much as you can into it from day 1 after getting a job after MU (my brother didn’t listen as well as I did). I think 20-30 years from now could be ugly for a lot of people.
It wasn't my family, but coworkers when I was fresh out of college. They were older and I dumbly asked if I should buy into the company stock purchase plan, they said "Until you can afford to max out your 401k, don't even think about any other investments" Good advice for the past 25+years.
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It wasn't my family, but coworkers when I was fresh out of college. They were older and I dumbly asked if I should buy into the company stock purchase plan, they said "Until you can afford to max out your 401k, don't even think about any other investments" Good advice for the past 25+years.
I worked my entire career in positions where I saw everyone's payroll information, and I was shocked at the number of professional people in their fifties who weren't contributing to their 401(k)s. Many of them were people who drove nice cars and took fancy vacations. Just plain stupid.
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I agree with this 100%. When I bring up retirement savings with my close friends, I’m always surprised how little they have saved. Even my brother who is 3 years younger than me and does really well for himself, has half the 401k I do.
The best advice my dad gave me was to start a 401k and put as much as you can into it from day 1 after getting a job after MU (my brother didn’t listen as well as I did). I think 20-30 years from now could be ugly for a lot of people.
"Compound interest is the most powerful force in the universe. He who understands it, earns it; he who doesn't, pays it."
I worked my entire career in positions where I saw everyone's payroll information, and I was shocked at the number of professional people in their fifties who weren't contributing to their 401(k)s. Many of them were people who drove nice cars and took fancy vacations. Just plain stupid.
And you knew why they had those things. It is astonishing how bad we are, as a species, at long term planning.
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You know that everyone who doesn't contribute significantly to their 401K isn't just bad with money. Not everyone can afford to put money away towards retirement because they have pressing financial needs now. Of course in many cases it is just being bad with money
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I worked my entire career in positions where I saw everyone's payroll information, and I was shocked at the number of professional people in their fifties who weren't contributing to their 401(k)s. Many of them were people who drove nice cars and took fancy vacations. Just plain stupid.
+1000!
My fear in retirement is that because my wife and I sacrificed and saved, we're going to end up paying for the folks that didn't. Either through taxes, curtailed Social Security or massive income-based premiums on Medicare.
Somebody has to pay for those nice cars and fancy vacations.
I got a kick out of the Home Depot idea for post-retirement With my luck, I'd end up working for my son, who manages the front end at a Home Depot!
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You know that everyone who doesn't contribute significantly to their 401K isn't just bad with money. Not everyone can afford to put money away towards retirement because they have pressing financial needs now. Of course in many cases it is just being bad with money
In my experience, the people who have pressing financial needs 'now' will always have those 'needs'. Pulling 3% of your income into a 401k isn't much, but it adds up over time. And of course, I'm talking about bare minimum numbers.
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In my experience, the people who have pressing financial needs 'now' will always have those 'needs'. Pulling 3% of your income into a 401k isn't much, but it adds up over time. And of course, I'm talking about bare minimum numbers.
Yep, but sometimes if those needs now aren't addressed, they won't be around for needs later
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Yep, but sometimes if those needs now aren't addressed, they won't be around for needs later
No one "needs" a brand new car or an annual trip to Disney World. No one needs to eat out every day for lunch, either.
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No one "needs" a brand new car or an annual trip to Disney World. No one needs to eat out every day for lunch, either.
Sister Chick:
You hit the nail right on the head. Saving for retirement isn't something that pays in the short-run. But it's something that if not done will cause serious problems down the road.
Sacrifice has to be part of the game. I get that some folks are doing everything they can to get by, but you have to get in the habit of putting something away. Something!
My Home Depot-working, hourly employee son, will be saving for retirement beginning in January. If he doesn't he'll have Dad to contend with!
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No one "needs" a brand new car or an annual trip to Disney World. No one needs to eat out every day for lunch, either.
I'm not talking about those people. I am talking about my wife's coworker whose entire paycheck goes into her family's basic needs and medical bills from her childs cancer diagnosis.
All I'm saying is you can't assume that everyone who hasn't saved properly for retirement is bad with money. If you have the ability to retire with a healthy sum you are very blessed. Not everyone will have had the same options.
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I'm 52, with a 10 year old, and a 13 yr old, so won't be retiring soon. When I do retire though, I think I will be fine not having a job to go to. I learned awhile back that my job does not define me. I stopped saying " I am an attorney", and instead say I work as an attorney. It helps me.
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I am very happy that all three of my sons have maxed out a Roth IRA every year since turning 21 and contribute a fair amount to their 401k every year. That definitely gives me peace of mind about their future. The older I get I say to no to personal expenditures more and more and invest that money in safe stocks. My Dad always used to say "you have to have some breathing room" and I am paranoid in a good way to keep trying to have more breathing room.
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I'm not talking about those people. I am talking about my wife's coworker whose entire paycheck goes into her family's basic needs and medical bills from her childs cancer diagnosis.
All I'm saying is you can't assume that everyone who hasn't saved properly for retirement is bad with money. If you have the ability to retire with a healthy sum you are very blessed. Not everyone will have had the same options.
Nailed it, TAMU.
The belief that anyone who faces poverty or struggles financially is a victim of their own bad choices seems a particularly American affliction. Of course, many of those people do exist. But many others are victims of bad luck and circumstance. After all, depending on which research you believe, anywhere between 40 and 65 percent of personal bankruptcies in the U.S. are tied to medical expenses.
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I am very happy that all three of my sons have maxed out a Roth IRA every year since turning 21 and contribute a fair amount to their 401k every year. That definitely gives me peace of mind about their future. The older I get I say to no to personal expenditures more and more and invest that money in safe stocks. My Dad always used to say "you have to have some breathing room" and I am paranoid in a good way to keep trying to have more breathing room.
My son and daughter-in-law, both 34 with 2 1/2 year old twin boys, just asked for a little advice regarding saving for retirement. They have a mortgage and a car loan, but no credit-card debt, and they have been contributing strongly to their 401k plans. But my DIL's plan doesn't include a company match. I suggested my son contribute fully to get his match, and that they both max out their Roth IRAs. Then they can put some more into their 401ks if they have $$ they feel they can spare. They also have started 529s for their kids. It's not easy for young people to think about 10 or 20 or 30 years down the line, so I'm proud of them.
I worked my entire career in positions where I saw everyone's payroll information, and I was shocked at the number of professional people in their fifties who weren't contributing to their 401(k)s. Many of them were people who drove nice cars and took fancy vacations. Just plain stupid.
Crazy. We have a savings crisis in this country.
I don't recall the exact statistic, but a huge percentage of Americans in their late-50s and early-60s don't have even $50K put away. And a huge percentage of all ages don't have enough emergency cash to do a $1K car repair if one were necessary. It's staggering.
Some folks are destitute or are living paycheck-to-paycheck, so that's one thing. But some, as you say, make decent money and just piss it all away.
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I agree with this 100%. When I bring up retirement savings with my close friends, I’m always surprised how little they have saved. Even my brother who is 3 years younger than me and does really well for himself, has half the 401k I do.
The best advice my dad gave me was to start a 401k and put as much as you can into it from day 1 after getting a job after MU (my brother didn’t listen as well as I did). I think 20-30 years from now could be ugly for a lot of people.
This. Time is your friend. I have two kids who are working know. I've tried to drill this into them. I've encouraged them to always contribute the maximum, but I absolutely insisted that they need to take full advantage of any matching. I'd like to make sure that if they're not at the maximum yet, they should bump it up as soon as they are able. This thread had reminded me to talk with them about it again.
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I'm 52, with a 10 year old, and a 13 yr old, so won't be retiring soon. When I do retire though, I think I will be fine not having a job to go to. I learned awhile back that my job does not define me. I stopped saying " I am an attorney", and instead say I work as an attorney. It helps me.
This. I wish there was a different standard question when meeting someone new other than asking what I do for a living. Unless they're an astronaut or something, I would want to learn about someone by asking about their interests rahter than their career.
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My son and daughter-in-law, both 34 with 2 1/2 year old twin boys, just asked for a little advice regarding saving for retirement. They have a mortgage and a car loan, but no credit-card debt, and they have been contributing strongly to their 401k plans. But my DIL's plan doesn't include a company match. I suggested my son contribute fully to get his match, and that they both max out their Roth IRAs. Then they can put some more into their 401ks if they have $$ they feel they can spare. They also have started 529s for their kids. It's not easy for young people to think about 10 or 20 or 30 years down the line, so I'm proud of them.
Crazy. We have a savings crisis in this country.
I don't recall the exact statistic, but a huge percentage of Americans in their late-50s and early-60s don't have even $50K put away. And a huge percentage of all ages don't have enough emergency cash to do a $1K car repair if one were necessary. It's staggering.
Some folks are destitute or are living paycheck-to-paycheck, so that's one thing. But some, as you say, make decent money and just piss it all away.
I agree people today have it tougher. I have two pensions, my wife also has a pension. Very few if any starting out today is going to get a company pension. Both our 401ks were matched 2 to 1 by the company, today you're lucky if get a company match. With our pensions, 401k distribution and SS our annual retirement income is in excess of a 110k after taxes. We have sizable investments with Vanguard and Merril Lynch and when we sold our home we opened a 100k 529 for our grand daughter. We are not wealthy but we are doing all right.
As Chick said if one lives within their means or strives to live below their means it can reduce a lot of anxiety in ones life.
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It's been hard to pull the trigger on early retirement. Every time I hit my 'number' my number goes up. It's mentally challenging to walk away during the highest-earning part of my career. Especially now that my good friends are in the c-suite and handing out really engaging, rewarding roles that come along with ownership stakes in their business. I keep saying, "why not 3 more years?"
Philosophically I am looking forward to immersing myself in being "useless" for the first time in my life upon retirement. Throwing myself into a few of my passions, and trying to redirect (or let go of) that hyper-driven lifestyle of building venture-backed companies. I'm in my early 40s, and I'll be done by 50 I think.
Then again the friends I'm working with just had a multi-billion dollar exit when their company went public. They lasted ~10 months before starting this new company. Once you don't have to work for a salary anymore and you're just working for passion and to make a splash it takes the anxious, negative stress out of your career.
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This. I wish there was a different standard question when meeting someone new other than asking what I do for a living. Unless they're an astronaut or something, I would want to learn about someone by asking about their interests rahter than their career.
I mean, I hear you, but also, for better or for worse, its the single activity you do for the most amount of your time, other than sleeping. Its an easy ice breaker. Don't let it define you, definitely. But its still a simple way to establish commonality or talk about yourself.
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No one "needs" a brand new car or an annual trip to Disney World. No one needs to eat out every day for lunch, either.
Do you think this represents everyone who is not saving for retirement?
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Do you think this represents everyone who is not saving for retirement?
Why are people jumping on chick? She clearly isn't talking about lower income people, she stated its the people in their 50s that make good coin, don't save for retirement and chose to spend their money elsewhere. YOLO!
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Why are people jumping on chick? She clearly isn't talking about lower income people, she stated its the people in their 50s that make good coin, don't save for retirement and chose to spend their money elsewhere. YOLO!
Read the post that Chick quoted and the conversation that post was a part of and you will see why.
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Why are people jumping on chick? She clearly isn't talking about lower income people, she stated its the people in their 50s that make good coin, don't save for retirement and chose to spend their money elsewhere. YOLO!
I didn't really think I was "jumping on Chick", but whatever.
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Nailed it, TAMU.
The belief that anyone who faces poverty or struggles financially is a victim of their own bad choices seems a particularly American affliction.
Exactly where did I say, or even imply, that?
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Exactly where did I say, or even imply, that?
Exactly where did I say or even imply you did?
If I wished to say or imply that of you, I would have replied to your post.
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When I started my first full time job with a fortune 50 company at age 21 I made a mistake on my paperwork for the company savings plan (retirement plan). When I got my first paycheck at the end of the first month, I realized that 25% of my salary had gone into the plan. I didn't understand what was happening or that I had made a mistake. After surviving the first year with 25% of my salary going to savings, I decided this wasn't too bad in any case. I've done it ever since... in good years and bad.
If you never see it, you never spend it, and if you invest wisely, it compounds quickly.
I hope my kids can do the same!
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Nailed it, TAMU.
The belief that anyone who faces poverty or struggles financially is a victim of their own bad choices seems a particularly American affliction. Of course, many of those people do exist. But many others are victims of bad luck and circumstance. After all, depending on which research you believe, anywhere between 40 and 65 percent of personal bankruptcies in the U.S. are tied to medical expenses.
But now we're pretty far removed from where chick started. She said the people who had no money flowing into the 401k program were also the people who drove top of the line cars and went on lavish vacations.
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But now we're pretty far removed from where chick started. She said the people who had no money flowing into the 401k program were also the people who drove top of the line cars and went on lavish vacations.
That's also not exactly what she said. She had qualifiers, like "number of professional people in their fifties who weren't contributing to their 401(k)s" and many of those people also seemed to be throwing money away. Ok, lets go ahead an quote the the whole thing so we can stop trying to apply her statement to "all the poor people in the world"
I worked my entire career in positions where I saw everyone's payroll information, and I was shocked at the number of professional people in their fifties who weren't contributing to their 401(k)s. Many of them were people who drove nice cars and took fancy vacations. Just plain stupid.
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There is definitely a retirement crisis happening as more and more people have to work longer and longer. There are a lot of factors contributing to that, from people not saving enough, to people just living longer than they did in the past. Most of us were told to start saving for retirement early and we plowed money in our 401ks or IRAs, but when you get to retirement age it's definitely scary. I always mention to my clients that it's perfectly normal to have that sense of anxiety, because there are so many unknowns. We have no idea how long we are going to live in retirement, healthcare is always changing, inflation is a huge concern, taxes, etc., because of that people get to retirement and don't want to touch their nest egg, so they live frugally and are miserable.
I'm fortunate that most of our clients are able to retire comfortably, but we do get some people occasionally that haven't planned well for their futures. It sucks when I have to tell a client of that they probably haven't saved enough to live the retirement lifestyle they envision. It can be a very uncomfortable conversation to tell someone they may have to work longer or save more, or possibly consider part-time employment in retirement.
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In case anyone wants an interesting (terrifying?) read, here's one of the people that fit what Chick was talking about.
https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/brand-director-orange-county-ca-salary-money-diary
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When I started my first full time job with a fortune 50 company at age 21 I made a mistake on my paperwork for the company savings plan (retirement plan). When I got my first paycheck at the end of the first month, I realized that 25% of my salary had gone into the plan. I didn't understand what was happening or that I had made a mistake. After surviving the first year with 25% of my salary going to savings, I decided this wasn't too bad in any case. I've done it ever since... in good years and bad.
If you never see it, you never spend it, and if you invest wisely, it compounds quickly.
I hope my kids can do the same!
I know a blue collar guy who set up a retirement plan deduction and then literally forgot about it for the next 20+ years. He was planning to retire on his modest pension.
When he went into HR to do his retirement paperwork and they asked him what he wanted to do with his retirement fund he said, "Oh, I don't know... can I get a check?"
They told him, "I don't think you want to do that. It's over $400,000."
The guy bought a really nice lake house with money he didn't even miss.
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I know a blue collar guy who set up a retirement plan deduction and then literally forgot about it for the next 20+ years. He was planning to retire on his modest pension.
When he went into HR to do his retirement paperwork and they asked him what he wanted to do with his retirement fund he said, "Oh, I don't know... can I get a check?"
They told him, "I don't think you want to do that. It's over $400,000."
The guy bought a really nice lake house with money he didn't even miss.
WhAt AbOuT pEoPlE tHaT dOn'T hAvE hR dEpArTmEnTs? :o :o :o
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I agree with this 100%. When I bring up retirement savings with my close friends, I’m always surprised how little they have saved. Even my brother who is 3 years younger than me and does really well for himself, has half the 401k I do.
The best advice my dad gave me was to start a 401k and put as much as you can into it from day 1 after getting a job after MU (my brother didn’t listen as well as I did). I think 20-30 years from now could be ugly for a lot of people.
My dad was terrible with money. Left very little for my mom when he died.
But, he told me when I was 17 and got my 1st job to always put away 10% of what I made. I never had it so I wouldn't miss it. Amazing how it adds up over the years when you start that young.
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+1000!
My fear in retirement is that because my wife and I sacrificed and saved, we're going to end up paying for the folks that didn't. Either through taxes, curtailed Social Security or massive income-based premiums on Medicare.
Somebody has to pay for those nice cars and fancy vacations.
I got a kick out of the Home Depot idea for post-retirement With my luck, I'd end up working for my son, who manages the front end at a Home Depot!
Your fears are fear based. :) You Social Security is not getting cut. And if your taxes are raised, it will be to help those who already have everything - not the poor.
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In case anyone wants an interesting (terrifying?) read, here's one of the people that fit what Chick was talking about.
https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/brand-director-orange-county-ca-salary-money-diary
1) that almost feels like a parody of a bored housewife.
2) I have so many more questions. Its meant to highlight daily spending, but you blow through $500K on "cars and travel"...yet you still have 2 car loans?
Also, not that credit card debt is good, but they only have $10K in CC debt, yet they continuously overdraft their account?
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I'm not talking about those people. I am talking about my wife's coworker whose entire paycheck goes into her family's basic needs and medical bills from her childs cancer diagnosis.
All I'm saying is you can't assume that everyone who hasn't saved properly for retirement is bad with money. If you have the ability to retire with a healthy sum you are very blessed. Not everyone will have had the same options.
My cousin's oldest daughter was diagnosed with a brain tumor when she was 3. Kyla died at age 11. They live in the Hershey, PA area. They paid very little out of pocket for Kyla' s treatments as they took her to St. Judes in Tennessee which charges no patient for care, even the uninsured. Sure life isn't fair and no one is untouched by unforeseen circumstances. You hope for the best but prepare for the worst.
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Your fears are fear based. :) You Social Security is not getting cut. And if your taxes are raised, it will be to help those who already have everything - not the poor.
If congress doesn't act soon his fears just may be realized. They are talking about a 9% COLA for next year on top of the 6% we got this year. Where is that money coming from? Certainly not payroll taxes.
https://www.gobankingrates.com/retirement/social-security/what-will-social-security-be-in-2035/
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My cousin's oldest daughter was diagnosed with a brain tumor when she was 3. Kyla died at age 11. They live in the Hershey, PA area. They paid very little out of pocket for Kyla' s treatments as they took her to St. Judes in Tennessee which charges no patient for care, even the uninsured. Sure life isn't fair and no one is untouched by unforeseen circumstances. You hope for the best but prepare for the worst.
Well since your cousin didn't pay a lot, that means no one pay a lot! Problem solved!
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If congress doesn't act soon his fears just may be realized. They are talking about a 9% COLA for next year on top of the 6% we got this year. Where is that money coming from? Certainly not payroll taxes.
https://www.gobankingrates.com/retirement/social-security/what-will-social-security-be-in-2035/
Take a look at the SECURE Act 2.0 which just passed the House and will comfortably pass the Senate. Automatic enrollment into 401k's and automatic annual escalations unless employees opt out.
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There is definitely a retirement crisis happening as more and more people have to work longer and longer. There are a lot of factors contributing to that, from people not saving enough, to people just living longer than they did in the past. Most of us were told to start saving for retirement early and we plowed money in our 401ks or IRAs, but when you get to retirement age it's definitely scary. I always mention to my clients that it's perfectly normal to have that sense of anxiety, because there are so many unknowns. We have no idea how long we are going to live in retirement, healthcare is always changing, inflation is a huge concern, taxes, etc., because of that people get to retirement and don't want to touch their nest egg, so they live frugally and are miserable.
I'm fortunate that most of our clients are able to retire comfortably, but we do get some people occasionally that haven't planned well for their futures. It sucks when I have to tell a client of that they probably haven't saved enough to live the retirement lifestyle they envision. It can be a very uncomfortable conversation to tell someone they may have to work longer or save more, or possibly consider part-time employment in retirement.
Are you a financial planner or CPA? I don't doubt that you have many difficult conversations with your clients. I'm glad they have somebody like you to help them.
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If congress doesn't act soon his fears just may be realized. They are talking about a 9% COLA for next year on top of the 6% we got this year. Where is that money coming from? Certainly not payroll taxes.
https://www.gobankingrates.com/retirement/social-security/what-will-social-security-be-in-2035/
No politician is cutting Social Security or Medicare. They will just debt finance it like everything else.
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Are you a financial planner or CPA? I don't doubt that you have many difficult conversations with your clients. I'm glad they have somebody like you to help them.
Yes, I am a financial planner.
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Yes, I am a financial planner.
Thanks. As I said, your clients are fortunate to have you. Be well.
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No politician is cutting Social Security or Medicare. They will just debt finance it like everything else.
We're 30 trillion in debt already, so the solution is to go further into debt print more money.
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I'm 31, aiming for retirement at 60.
Pretty basic advice but increase your to your 401k contribution every time you get a promotion or raise, if you're able. Set up an additional reoccurring monthly (biweekly?) payment from your checking to your portfolio, even if it's a small amount.
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But a cruiser and traverse the Great Loop
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My goal is to semi retire at age 66 and fully retire at age 70, but I really cannot imagine my life without being involved in the business world. Business has been the one constant in my life, starting at a very early age. I cannot remember one day in my life that my Dad's company, or now my company, has not been the top priority in my life. I do worry that I might struggle not having that action in my day to day life when I retire.
As for what I am looking forward to, spending a couple of months a year in Naples, FL, playing golf 3-5 times a week, traveling with my wife and enjoying every day with my kids and grandkids. I guess, enjoying my family is going to be my greatest joy in retirement.
many similarities goose-between working with dad and then on my own, it's going to be hard to transition out of my company. most arrangements highly incentivize a sale pretty much mandating you stay on for minimum 6 mos. working within the company we forged only to become another employee with more than likely most if not all of my previous employees will be weird to say the least. our company for the past 36 years under my direction is all that i know. so many people look at us business owners and assume it's all a "piece of cake"...it's akin to having a 2nd family. the worries, sleepless nights, highs & lows, etc
hopefully between the business, my building and my retirement fund which i started at day one, plus SS should be enough. i have seen too many stories like the one sir brought up to push retirement too far down the road. i love what i do, the interactions and the creativity that goes into it. people often ask me why i do what i do-the most rewarding experiences are the ones when people call after hours and weekends in trouble and in pain. they are totally beholden to you and they trust you.
within the next year or so, i plan on turning the business aspect over to someone or some group, but continue working under a more limited/ scaled back work week. i am licensed in arizona as well. i love to meet people from different walks of life and different backgrounds, but working outside of the ownership realm will be a whole different perspective and a passage "stepping thru the threshold" life experience
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No politician is cutting Social Security or Medicare. They will just debt finance it like everything else.
SS is a pretty easy fix. If necessary, you raise the full retirement age (67 now for most) and/or maybe even the initial benefits age (62 now) and/or you make more $$$ subject to SS tax. Right now, whether your earnings are $150K or $150M or $1.5B, you're only taxed on the first $147,000 of your earnings. The politicians will keep kicking the can down the road until SS is in real danger and then make one or more of those changes.
There also has been talk of "means adjusted" benefits. A wealthy person with X amount of $$$ would not receive SS benefits or would receive limited benefits; that actually was part of Chris Christie's platform the last time he ran for president. It was an unpopular plank, though, and I don't think it would fly.
One thing people also have to remember is that "the trust fund will go bankrupt" and other such fatalism that's spouted sometimes is not a thing. Worse-case scenario is that if someone is receiving, say, $2,000, that person would only get about $1,500. That would suck; that's $500 less than the person was expecting. But it's a far cry from $0.00.
Medicare ... that's a much more difficult fix. But like you, it's impossible for me to believe that politicians for either party would let something as popular and vital as Medicare cease to exist or even become unviable.
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As mentioned, there is a crisis coming when loads of people reach retirement age with no money.
Additionally, I think there's going to be CHAOS as boomers age out of the work force.
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Don’t worry - they’ll call Maxwell Smart and 99 to stop CHAOS.
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SS is a pretty easy fix. If necessary, you raise the full retirement age (67 now for most) and/or maybe even the initial benefits age (62 now) and/or you make more $$$ subject to SS tax. Right now, whether your earnings are $150K or $150M or $1.5B, you're only taxed on the first $147,000 of your earnings. The politicians will keep kicking the can down the road until SS is in real danger and then make one or more of those changes.
There also has been talk of "means adjusted" benefits. A wealthy person with X amount of $$$ would not receive SS benefits or would receive limited benefits; that actually was part of Chris Christie's platform the last time he ran for president. It was an unpopular plank, though, and I don't think it would fly.
One thing people also have to remember is that "the trust fund will go bankrupt" and other such fatalism that's spouted sometimes is not a thing. Worse-case scenario is that if someone is receiving, say, $2,000, that person would only get about $1,500. That would suck; that's $500 less than the person was expecting. But it's a far cry from $0.00.
Medicare ... that's a much more difficult fix. But like you, it's impossible for me to believe that politicians for either party would let something as popular and vital as Medicare cease to exist or even become unviable.
Agree on removing the wage cap. Such an easy solution. (And therefore will never be passed)
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one thing about millennials-they're so afraid of debt, they aren't buying homes
that has got to figure into diminished savings unless they are putting the potential mortgage money into a retirement fund of some sort
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I was always friendly to The Jehovah witness people who banged on my door each week. I took their literature and listened to what they had to say. Lots of people slammed the door on them . One time ,in so many words ,they told me don’t have a mortgage so that way you would only be beholden to God . I was a young guy and figured that I would apply that and soon just paid off my mortgage .
Once I did that , it opened up so many new opportunities . I was able to make some investments that set our family up financially , so that the missus stopped working .
One day ,when I had a chance to gain control of my company , I went to the missus and she said , it was ok with her as long as the house wasn’t at risk and tuition was able to be paid when they time came .
When I made that deal , Life changed . I was able to control my own time and destiny . When I was an employee I wanted to be able to retire young , but now there is no reason to .
I enjoy the challenge of what I am doing . In fact we just made an acquisition we had been scoping out for many years .
I have been to a lot of nice places and done a lot of bucket list items already . So I don’t need to retire to do that .
My hobby is posting on this website . It is very enjoyable
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one thing about millennials-they're so afraid of debt, they aren't buying homes
that has got to figure into diminished savings unless they are putting the potential mortgage money into a retirement fund of some sort
You think fear of debt is keeping millennials from buying homes??
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You think fear of debt is keeping millennials from buying homes??
Fear of defaulting and/or having to walk away from a home because it's under water (mortgage or climate change, take your pick). That and the whole "experience over stuff" perspective.
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one thing about millennials-they're so afraid of debt, they aren't buying homes
that has got to figure into diminished savings unless they are putting the potential mortgage money into a retirement fund of some sort
We aren't buying homes? I can't speak for everywhere, but in your nick of the woods there's a shortage of an estimated 8,000 single family homes. I think there are thousands of millennials who want to buy homes but can't.
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Fear of defaulting and/or having to walk away from a home because it's under water (mortgage or climate change, take your pick). That and the whole "experience over stuff" perspective.
I think the climate change aspect is overstated (unless you were joking than ;D ;D). Most millenials aren't buying property in the Outer Banks or South Beach.
I do think an aspect is "anticipated holding period" for lack of a better term. In a lot of competitive housing markets, if you're not planning on staying in a house for 7/8/10 years plus, some of the equity gained can be easily offset by affiliated costs. I was debating buying a condo in Chicago about 8 years back and was discussing it with my cousin's husband. Extremely bright Big 5 MBA educated Fortune 100 CFO track kind of guy. They were living in Naperville at the time as he was working for Caterpillar, and he talked about how they were renting their house and they wouldn't buy, even paying 100% cash, cause it wasn't financially prudent given their 4-5 year timeline in the area. He sent me a full Excel model that proved it out under a variety of scenarios.
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Fear of defaulting and/or having to walk away from a home because it's under water (mortgage or climate change, take your pick). That and the whole "experience over stuff" perspective.
Ya...
My anecdotal experience of friends, family and coworkers 25-35 is nothing like this.
They all want houses. They've all been searching for months/years
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Agree on removing the wage cap. Such an easy solution. (And therefore will never be passed)
If you remove the wage cap, are you going to remove the max benefit cap?
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You think fear of debt is keeping millennials from buying homes??
now i know why many of you disputed my premise because, well, it's rocket man! he's just some dumb conservative dentist who fires people for shaving their heads. yeah, that guy...the only wise thing he did was follow his daddy's footsteps, spend 8 years at MU then send his 2 kids there, but aside from that he's just dumb. he went out and dumb'ed his way thru life, getting and staying married for 38 years, and running a business for almost as long, supporting countless families...dummy. and now nearing retirement just past 60...ohh the ignorance. the dude is so blind about things he voted for the orange man and not the ice cream intellectual who has really improved things even though it may not seem like it to ya'll yet cuz we are all so ignorant...just wait and give it some time.
ok, dummy ole rocket wasn't sure about the millennials for sure so he just made all that up...no wait...he looked it up. and wtf?? seems a lot of articles on the very thing i proposed. google millennials and debt and i'll be damned. yes tamu, there are some millennials who WANT to buy homes today but if they have not bought a home by now...they missed that train man. with interest rates still at all time lows and they haven't bought yet??
the once open field across from my office has over 300 apartment units probably housing 1000 people or more. that builder has plans to break ground for another, you guessed it, huge apartment complex with walking paths, strip malls, etc just up the road.
are ALL millennials mortgage averse? of course not, but those in the know, the actuaries, those who study trends, yup, those smarter than rocket who may even insist we should all be wearing masks are saying millennials are afraid of personal debt.
so the short answer to your question jes-man is...ummm...yes
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/08/credit-card-debt-scares-millennials-even-more-than-death.html
https://www.consolidatedcredit.org/financial-news/millennials-fear-debt/
https://wwd.com/business-news/marketing-promotion/afterpay-millennials-lending-shopping-wwd-digital-forum-1202904388/
https://www.investopedia.com/news/real-reasons-millennials-arent-buying-homes/
https://fortune.com/2022/03/04/millennial-homebuying-real-estate-debt-student-loans/#:~:text=Debt%20aversion%20is%20the%20new,taking%20on%20credit%20card%20debt.
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now i know why many of you disputed my premise because, well, it's rocket man! he's just some dumb conservative dentist who fires people for shaving their heads. yeah, that guy...the only wise thing he did was follow his daddy's footsteps, spend 8 years at MU then send his 2 kids there, but aside from that he's just dumb. he went out and dumb'ed his way thru life, getting and staying married for 38 years, and running a business for almost as long, supporting countless families...dummy. and now nearing retirement just past 60...ohh the ignorance. the dude is so blind about things he voted for the orange man and not the ice cream intellectual who has really improved things even though it may not seem like it to ya'll yet cuz we are all so ignorant...just wait and give it some time.
ok, dummy ole rocket wasn't sure about the millennials for sure so he just made all that up...no wait...he looked it up. and wtf?? seems a lot of articles on the very thing i proposed. google millennials and debt and i'll be damned. yes tamu, there are some millennials who WANT to buy homes today but if they have not bought a home by now...they missed that train man. with interest rates still at all time lows and they haven't bought yet??
the once open field across from my office has over 300 apartment units probably housing 1000 people or more. that builder has plans to break ground for another, you guessed it, huge apartment complex with walking paths, strip malls, etc just up the road.
are ALL millennials mortgage averse? of course not, but those in the know, the actuaries, those who study trends, yup, those smarter than rocket who may even insist we should all be wearing masks are saying millennials are afraid of personal debt.
so the short answer to your question jes-man is...ummm...yes
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/08/credit-card-debt-scares-millennials-even-more-than-death.html
https://www.consolidatedcredit.org/financial-news/millennials-fear-debt/
https://wwd.com/business-news/marketing-promotion/afterpay-millennials-lending-shopping-wwd-digital-forum-1202904388/
https://www.investopedia.com/news/real-reasons-millennials-arent-buying-homes/
https://fortune.com/2022/03/04/millennial-homebuying-real-estate-debt-student-loans/#:~:text=Debt%20aversion%20is%20the%20new,taking%20on%20credit%20card%20debt.
I'm going to go ahead and guess that you just read the titles of the articles and didn't actually read the articles themselves.
Not a single one of them says that millennials fear taking on debt. In fact they say Millennials have taken on more debt than past generations. Every single one of them says that Millennials have already taken on so much debt that it is the thing that causes them the most anxiety, more than the prospect of dying. Which makes sense given that debt is now and their deaths are likely not for 30 to 50 years. "Millennials fear debt more than death" is a catchy title, but you need to actually read to article to understand what they meant by that.
And Rocket, there was really no need for the "woe is me, everyone picks on me". Two people disagreed with you. No one called you dumb. No one even said what you posted was dumb. Jesmu just asked you a question and I provided data that contradicted what you said. If you post on here, chances are, someone is going to disagree with you from time to time. Don't respond by snowflaking out
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ok tamu, i'll admit i did go a little bit over the top. part of it i was just having a little fun, but also, the very title of the one article-
"millennials FEAR DEBT" credit card debt SCARES millennials..."
yes i did read most of them, but the headlines tell you what i proposed. yes, there are other reasons, but they really are afraid to take on MORE debt, no? there has been very little reason not to buy a home within the past 10 years unless one just didn't have the money. now it's hard due to inventory and the price of homes has of course gone up incredibly. as i said as well, the significant rise of apartment buildings prove the fact that the trend is toward renting as opposed to buying. as one of the articles cited, the millennials tend to want the big city lights and action
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ok tamu, i'll admit i did go a little bit over the top. part of it i was just having a little fun, but also, the very title of the one article-
"millennials FEAR DEBT" credit card debt SCARES millennials..."
yes i did read most of them, but the headlines tell you what i proposed. yes, there are other reasons, but they really are afraid to take on MORE debt, no? there has been very little reason not to buy a home within the past 10 years unless one just didn't have the money. now it's hard due to inventory and the price of homes has of course gone up incredibly. as i said as well, the significant rise of apartment buildings prove the fact that the trend is toward renting as opposed to buying. as one of the articles cited, the millennials tend to want the big city lights and action
8 of 10
Really brining it with this thread.
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Agree on removing the wage cap. Such an easy solution. (And therefore will never be passed)
Yup. Both sides. ::)
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ok tamu, i'll admit i did go a little bit over the top. part of it i was just having a little fun, but also, the very title of the one article-
"millennials FEAR DEBT" credit card debt SCARES millennials..."
yes i did read most of them, but the headlines tell you what i proposed. yes, there are other reasons, but they really are afraid to take on MORE debt, no? there has been very little reason not to buy a home within the past 10 years unless one just didn't have the money. now it's hard due to inventory and the price of homes has of course gone up incredibly. as i said as well, the significant rise of apartment buildings prove the fact that the trend is toward renting as opposed to buying. as one of the articles cited, the millennials tend to want the big city lights and action
Isn’t “just not having the money” one of the key reasons millennials aren’t buying homes?
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ok tamu, i'll admit i did go a little bit over the top. part of it i was just having a little fun, but also, the very title of the one article-
"millennials FEAR DEBT" credit card debt SCARES millennials..."
yes i did read most of them, but the headlines tell you what i proposed. yes, there are other reasons, but they really are afraid to take on MORE debt, no? there has been very little reason not to buy a home within the past 10 years unless one just didn't have the money. now it's hard due to inventory and the price of homes has of course gone up incredibly. as i said as well, the significant rise of apartment buildings prove the fact that the trend is toward renting as opposed to buying. as one of the articles cited, the millennials tend to want the big city lights and action
You literally wrote "millenials are so afraid of debt that they aren't buying houses" and then posted articles that talked about how millennials have taken on more debt than past generations. How do they fear debt if they are taking on more than part generations?
So now you're shifting the goalposts to they are afraid of taking on more debt which is a very different statement. Have you considered that maybe having high debt already keeps them from building up enough savings to afford the down payment on a house? Or that they can't qualify for good mortgages because of the amount of debt they already carry?
As for the apartment buildings, have you considered that is less about millennials choosing apartment buildings and more about companies choosing to build them because they are much more profitable than building single family homes? Again there are an estimated 8000 families in Milwaukee that want to buy a home and can't because of lack of inventory.
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There also has been talk of "means adjusted" benefits. A wealthy person with X amount of $$$ would not receive SS benefits or would receive limited benefits; that actually was part of Chris Christie's platform the last time he ran for president. It was an unpopular plank, though, and I don't think it would fly.
This depends on how one views Social Security. If it is an entitlement, then yes, the rich can be pushed out.
However, since the beginning of Social Security, it has been viewed as a supplemental pension We're all entitled to it based on what we paid in. I'm perfectly happy not to receive it, if you pay me back everything I paid in, with interest. I'm sure I could invest it more effectively than the Social Security Administration.
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Remember when this thread was useful?
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Remember when this thread was useful?
It had a decent 36 hour run.
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Isn’t “just not having the money” one of the key reasons millennials aren’t buying homes?
Yep -- or not having enough money as the prices of homes skyrocket in many parts of the country. Both of my millennial kids have bought homes, and had absolutely no "fear" in doing so. The older of the two is now looking to sell the first home (which she and her husband bought 5 years ago) and move up to a larger home, but the price of the kind of home they want in the Seattle area is beyond ridiculous. It's not "fear," it's price.
This depends on how one views Social Security. If it is an entitlement, then yes, the rich can be pushed out.
However, since the beginning of Social Security, it has been viewed as a supplemental pension We're all entitled to it based on what we paid in. I'm perfectly happy not to receive it, if you pay me back everything I paid in, with interest. I'm sure I could invest it more effectively than the Social Security Administration.
I'm just the messenger. It was Chris Christie who pushed means testing for SS, and a few others have done so since though none successfully. And I believe it was Paul Ryan who wanted to do similar with Medicare, though I might be misremembering that.