MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: MuggsyB on February 23, 2022, 10:46:16 PM
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This has the potential to be a complete s-show. "Sanctions" need to be destroying their energy sector and currency immediately along with their cyber capabilities. We should have never gotten to this point.
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This has the potential to be a complete s-show. "Sanctions" need to be destroying their energy sector and currency immediately along with their cyber capabilities. We should have never gotten to this point.
Agreed. Ignoring the annexation of Crimea was the spark Putin needed to feel emboldened.
Let’s see if we can have a thread about a major geopolitical issue without partisan bickering and attacks. IMO, this is the result of bipartisan failure by the last three administrations.
Edit: last four if you consider the invasion of Georgia too.
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IBTL
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Billy rushing in to blame the black guy is the most on-brand thing ever.
This isn't the fault of anyone but Vladimir Putin.
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Billy rushing in to blame the black guy is the most on-brand thing ever.
Wow, playing the race card. I thought you were someone who could engage in educated, mature dialogue. Obviously I was wrong about you. I guess you were aligned with the “let Putin do what he wants” administration of the last four years.
Tell me why ignoring the annexation of Crimea was the right move and didn’t provide a huge win to and momentum for Putin.
Obama’s Director of National Intelligence and his assistant secretary of defense for international security affairs (a Biden nominee too) must be a racists against his old Boss considering they admits they screwed up with Crimea. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10542055/Obamas-Director-National-Intelligence-says-wish-aggressive-Russia.html
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And you guy is their biggest cheerleader. A true traitor.
WTtF are you talking about? How about actually having a discussion about this and looking at this situation rationally and how we and the Western World should respond?
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Wow, playing the race card. I thought you were someone who could engage in educated, mature dialogue. Obviously I was wrong about you. I guess you were aligned with the “let Putin do what he wants” administration of the last four years.
Tell me why ignoring the annexation of Crimea was the right move and didn’t provide a huge win to and momentum for Putin.
If it walks like a duck...
Anyhow, your question is based on an entirely false premise. The annexation of Crimea not only wasn't ignored, it was met with widespread condemnation and harsh sanctions from both the US and EU.
What more would you want? Full-scale war?
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Billy rushing in to blame the black guy is the most on-brand thing ever.
This isn't the fault of anyone but Vladimir Putin.
You're better than this Pakumi. Are you saying that particular decision of doing nothing cannot be criticized because of the race of our President in 2014? Do you see any fking difference between how Chamberlain reacted to Hitler aa opposed to Winston Churchill? Far more important than Putin is how the Chinese government is processing this whole thing.
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If it walks like a duck...
Anyhow, your question is based on an entirely false premise. The annexation of Crimea not only wasn't ignored, it was met with widespread condemnation and harsh sanctions from both the US and EU.
What more would you want? Full-scale war?
Words mean didly squat. Now in fairness this b-crap started well before Obama and during the Clinton administration and continued during the Bush administration.
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If it walks like a duck...
Anyhow, your question is based on an entirely false premise. The annexation of Crimea not only wasn't ignored, it was met with widespread condemnation and harsh sanctions from both the US and EU.
What more would you want? Full-scale war?
I forgot I wasn’t allowed to disagree with decisions made by a leader, whose Inaugural Ball I was blessed to attend in 2009, because of the color of that leader’s skin.
Providing weapons to Ukraine is what I would have supported. Condemnation and sanctions don’t mean anything to a despot who views the fall of the USSR as the worst development in world history. We didn’t need war, but we needed to take stronger action.
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The focus needs to be Cyber. We are more than capable of taking out their power grid, especially with our allies.
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Putin is the enemy. Always has been, always will be.
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Try to avoid hurting the Russian population directly.
Freeze all assets of every Russian oligarch in every NATO country
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Just a sad day. I don’t think this is the end of global conflict and will just embolden other nations to act.
Ukraine and the Baltic States have had this threat over their heads for decades. I can’t imagine living in that world knowing this day may come
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It is is more likely that Russia uses a cyber attack against the US (other than their propaganda farms). And Rico, the last guy was actively in Putin's front pocket. Still praising his leadership.
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It is is more likely that Russia uses a cyber attack against the US (other than their propaganda farms). And Rico, the last guy was actively in Putin's front pocket. Still praising his leadership.
Truth is, No president has effectively deterred Putin since he rose to power. His dream is a recreation not of the USSR but Tsarist Russia when it comes to frontiers
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Agreed. Everyone has tried some combination of boxing him in and accommodating him. Russia is too big and has too many nukes to actually attack. So how do you manage the biggest bully in the world?
Sucking up to him and praising his leadership is not something that occurs to most people.
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The focus needs to be Cyber. We are more than capable of taking out their power grid, especially with our allies.
We'd lose because we have far more to lose.
Just a sad day. I don’t think this is the end of global conflict and will just embolden other nations to act.
Ukraine and the Baltic States have had this threat over their heads for decades. I can’t imagine living in that world knowing this day may come
The Baltic states are NATO states. If they're invaded, then all bets are off.
Words mean didly squat. Now in fairness this b-crap started well before Obama and during the Clinton administration and continued during the Bush administration.
Attacking Russian troops could cause a nuclear war. You know what is better than nuclear war? Ukraine being part of Russia. It sucks, but this is how the world has been since 1945. There will be no open conflict between nuclear nations. For the last 80 years, there have been proxy wars fought throughout the world instead of nuclear ones. This morning the Russian markets donked off 40% in a matter of hours. That is going to hurt. The value of the ruble is tanking. That hurts. There is literally nothing that the world can do militarily without creating a world wide nuclear crisis. Let the financial pain be felt, and hopefully the Russian people get sick of Mr. Putin and decide on their own that they've had enough.
China won't call the invasion what it is because they're planning to use the exact same excuse to grab Taiwan.
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Providing weapons to Ukraine is what I would have supported. Condemnation and sanctions don’t mean anything to a despot who views the fall of the USSR as the worst development in world history. We didn’t need war, but we needed to take stronger action.
How has providing weapons to the Ukraine served as a deterrent to what we're seeing now?
I'd suggest you're living in an alternate reality if you think giving the Ukrainians a handful of missiles and small arms would have prevented Putin from moving ahead with a plan he's been building toward for more than two decades.
You claim to not want to play politics, but your first (and only, so far) instinct here has been to point fingers at American politicians based on a false premise, while giving a complete pass to those solely responsible. .
Again, no one is to blame here but Putin. Not Bush. Not Clinton. Not Obama. Not Trump. Not Biden.
This is 100% on Russia.
And the kind of finger-pointing and infighting being promoted by the right in this country only serves Putin's interests.
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No one is actually blaming anyone but Putin. If you don't want to discuss what could have been done by us or our Euro allies to have prevented this that's fine. It's about what we do here and now. It also has huge ramifications with regards to China and Iran.
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Putin has always been the enemy.
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No one is actually blaming anyone but Putin. If you don't want to discuss what could have been done by us or our Euro allies to have prevented this that's fine. It's about what we do here and now. It also has huge ramifications with regards to China and Iran.
Amen, Muggs.
This is very scary and has huge global implications, probably the most severe since December 1999.
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No one is actually blaming anyone but Putin. If you don't want to discuss what could have been done by us or our Euro allies to have prevented this that's fine. It's about what we do here and now. It also has huge ramifications with regards to China and Iran.
Personally, I want to avoid nuclear war.
Sanctions are really the only option now.
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No one is actually blaming anyone but Putin. If you don't want to discuss what could have been done by us or our Euro allies to have prevented this that's fine. It's about what we do here and now. It also has huge ramifications with regards to China and Iran.
Literally Billy's opening salvo:
"Ignoring the annexation of Crimea was the spark Putin needed to feel emboldened."
This isn't only based on a couple of false premises, but is ignorant of history and the fact that Putin has been openly planning this for 20 years.
What's Muggsy's solution here?
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Putin has always been the enemy.
He has and the current"sanctions" aren't going to work. We have all known his exact goals for quite some time. This has to be prevented and unfortunately it will be really ugly. Sending weapons to Ukraine and setting up refugee camps isn't a particularly strong response. If we won't pump oil here can we still realistically cripple him economically?
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He has and the current"sanctions" aren't going to work. We have all known his exact goals for quite some time. This has to be prevented and unfortunately it will be really ugly. Sending weapons to Ukraine and setting up refugee camps isn't a particularly strong response. If we won't pump oil here can we still realistically cripple him economically?
The US produces the most oil in the world, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.
How do you suggest stopping a nuclear armed country? Direct conflict? Don't be silly.
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The US produces the most oil in the world, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.
How do you suggest stopping a nuclear armed country? Direct conflict? Don't be silly.
Much of Europe is dependent on Russia's oil.
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Much of Europe is dependent on Russia's oil.
Yes, i am aware that Russia is a petro-state. And that Europe wants their cheap natural gas. Nord Stream 2 was cancelled yesterday. That coupled with the other financial sanctions are close to the maximum we can do without direct military engagement. I expect the US and other G7 countries to expand and increase the sanctions today. Access to the SWIFT banking system will hurt Russia immensely, but it will only push them closer to China.
Again, what do you suggest beyond what we are doing to halt Russia's advances in Ukraine?
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Looking at this thread I have to call out a lot of people here. Most of you are falling for exactly what the Chinas, Irans, Russias have been setting up for years. They astroturf us, social media us, auto-bot us, and generally divided us just beautifully over the past 10+ years.
And now something as simple as an attack on an ally and everyone is too busy taking sides against one another versus looking at the true enemy.
We are getting outsmarted and we don't even care or don't see it.
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Mr. Putin is behaving like Adolf Hitler. The question now is how are we going to react. Will we be Neville Chamberlin proclaiming "peace in our time" because Mr. Putin annexed Ukraine in a fashion similar to how Mr. Hitler annexed the Sudetenland? We saw how well that worked.
Or will we be like John Kennedy who risked all-out nuclear war to get Soviet nuclear warheads out of Cuba. Or like Jimmy Carter, who used grain and trade embargos to punish the Soviet Union for Afghanistan. My hope is that the current leadership is up to the challenge. The problem, as Mr. Putin knows, is we have an inwardly focused administration confronted with a serious external challenge. Our measuring stick is less about world leadership and more about whether energy prices will rise, inflation will spike and the next elections will be less than ideal.
My personal fear is we are at an inflection point in global history where comparatively weak American responses and ambitious dictators collide to create instability in places where we have limited capability to respond.
As a side note, my son is from Luhansk. He was born there.
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Looking at this thread I have to call out a lot of people here. Most of you are falling for exactly what the Chinas, Irans, Russias have been setting up for years. They astroturf us, social media us, auto-bot us, and generally divided us just beautifully over the past 10+ years.
And now something as simple as an attack on an ally and everyone is too busy taking sides against one another versus looking at the true enemy.
We are getting outsmarted and we don't even care or don't see it.
Okay...
What are your solutions at this moment?
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John Kennedy risked war because those missiles were in our backyard ninety miles away, plus Khrushchev didn’t want nuclear war either.
The US is not going to risk nuclear war over Ukraine, just not going to happen.
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Mr. Putin is behaving like Adolf Hitler. The question now is how are we going to react. Will we be Neville Chamberlin proclaiming "peace in our time" because Mr. Putin annexed Ukraine in a fashion similar to how Mr. Hitler annexed the Sudetenland? We saw how well that worked.
Or will we be like John Kennedy who risked all-out nuclear war to get Soviet nuclear warheads out of Cuba. Or like Jimmy Carter, who used grain and trade embargos to punish the Soviet Union for Afghanistan. My hope is that the current leadership is up to the challenge. The problem, as Mr. Putin knows, is we have an inwardly focused administration confronted with a serious external challenge. Our measuring stick is less about world leadership and more about whether energy prices will rise, inflation will spike and the next elections will be less than ideal.
My personal fear is we are at an inflection point in global history where comparatively weak American responses and ambitious dictators collide to create instability in places where we have limited capability to respond.
As a side note, my son is from Luhansk. He was born there.
Does Putin have global aspirations?
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Okay...
What are your solutions at this moment?
Well since I am a geo-political/military expert.... ;D
I would tell you what I would like. I would like our political and military leaders to stay out of the blame game and sit down with one another and put together a plan outside of the press.
I fear Putin has aspirations beyond Ukraine so a red line will need to be drawn.
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Does Putin have global aspirations?
Putin may not but other nations may.
I don’t know what the American response should be. Dano is correct, let’s look at the first response by many. It isn’t condemning Putin and Russia but using it as a political point. This isn’t unique to one side of the political spectrum. We have a nation where “America First” is being hammered home on a daily and nightly basis. How much traction does it have? Seems like a lot but who really knows. I don’t have any faith in either political party right now to have the proper response. Whatever response is made will immediately be considered too weak or too punitive.
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There seems to be a lot of Helen Lovejoy-ing around this situation. Blaming the other political party or if not that, blaming the political apparatus as a whole. But that's all window dressing. To those folks - US military force on the ground in Ukraine, yes or no?
If the answer is no, the administration is doing all that can really be done. You don't have to like that geopolitical reality, but it is what it is. So pontificating on how this is Hitler or whatever else is just handwringing.
If yes - when should that build up have started? Ground troops? We good with seeing US service men and women come home in caskets in service of an independent Ukraine?
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There seems to be a lot of Helen Lovejoy-ing around this situation. Blaming the other political party or if not that, blaming the political apparatus as a whole. But that's all window dressing. To those folks - US military force on the ground in Ukraine, yes or no?
If the answer is no, the administration is doing all that can really be done. So pontificating on how this is Hitler or whatever else is just handwringing.
If yes - when should that build up have started? Ground troops? We good with seeing US service men and women come home in caskets in service of an independent Ukraine?
This is a great framing of the situation and why no one will be happy with whatever response there is.
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If Russia touches Poland or any of the other western Slavic states/Baltic states which are a part of NATO we look at all out war. As of now he basically invaded the only country he could without necessitating a response from the rest of Europe, USA and Canada.
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There seems to be a lot of Helen Lovejoy-ing around this situation. Blaming the other political party or if not that, blaming the political apparatus as a whole. But that's all window dressing. To those folks - US military force on the ground in Ukraine, yes or no?
If the answer is no, the administration is doing all that can really be done. You don't have to like that geopolitical reality, but it is what it is. So pontificating on how this is Hitler or whatever else is just handwringing.
If yes - when should that build up have started? Ground troops? We good with seeing US service men and women come home in caskets in service of an independent Ukraine?
Well spoken
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There seems to be a lot of Helen Lovejoy-ing around this situation. Blaming the other political party or if not that, blaming the political apparatus as a whole. But that's all window dressing. To those folks - US military force on the ground in Ukraine, yes or no?
If the answer is no, the administration is doing all that can really be done. You don't have to like that geopolitical reality, but it is what it is. So pontificating on how this is Hitler or whatever else is just handwringing.
If yes - when should that build up have started? Ground troops? We good with seeing US service men and women come home in caskets in service of an independent Ukraine?
Yep.
Need to make this as financially painful as possible, especially for Putin's oligarch benefactors who are likely the only people who have any influence over him. Other than that, not a whole lot that can be done short of WWIII.
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Providing weapons to Ukraine is what I would have supported. Condemnation and sanctions don’t mean anything to a despot who views the fall of the USSR as the worst development in world history. We didn’t need war, but we needed to take stronger action.
The only weapons capable of deterring Russia at all are our most advanced weaponry.
Ukraine has a a lot of pro-russia supporters in its governments and military. If we gave Ukraine that weaponry, our most advanced military secrets would essentially be being handed directly to the Russians.
An absolutely terrible idea.
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If Russia touches Poland or any of the other western Slavic states/Baltic states which are a part of NATO we look at all out war. As of now he basically invaded the only country he could without necessitating a response from the rest of Europe, USA and Canada.
I don't think you see any attempt on Poland or other Slavic/Baltic states.
The thing I'd worry more about, is China using the same logic as Russia to invade Taiwan.
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The thing I'd worry more about, is China using the same logic as Russia to invade Taiwan.
Ding Ding Ding. I believe you've hit it on the head.
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We haven't seen one suggestion here that's stronger than what the U.S. and its allies are already doing.
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One of the things people fail to understand is the Ukrainian government does not have the undying loyalty of its people.
The government itself is a kleptocracy. Our own experience there was awful, with rank and file Ukrainians asking, "why should we fight for this country...they will just steal us blind." There was an incredible amount of apathy toward the country by its citizens due largely to the government's lack of an ability to deal with day-to-day problems of Ukrainians.
Our driver there needed funds to bribe the proctor so he could take and pass his medical boards. Left open was the question of whether you could fail the Ukrainian medical boards and still be certified by bribing the proctor. Our son was adopted near Luhansk and weighed 12 pounds at 14 months due to a complete lack of nutrition. He was warehoused and almost left for dead for the first year of his life. We could not travel for a week because we had to get enough nourishment into him so he could be strong enough to travel.
His orphanage director was indicted by the general prosecutor for accepting bribes that allowed tainted baby food into the orphanage. 31 children like my son died because of horrible food poisoning. They were buried in the back yard of the orphanage and he was caught only because some of the children were slated to go to America. This is the kind of problem that occurs in Ukraine every day. It makes Illinois look like the capital of good government.
The risk of over-committing to Ukraine is we end up in another Vietnam, where the government we support does not have the support of the people. The risk of under-committing is that we end up not confronting tyranny and end up surrendering our leadership role in the world, like we did at the end of World War I.
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Agreed. Ignoring the annexation of Crimea was the spark Putin needed to feel emboldened.
From yesterday's New York Times - The 2014 sanctions could have been stronger but they did have an effect
Can Sanctions Work?
Yes, but they often don’t.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/23/briefing/sanctions-russia-us-europe.html
excerpt
Targeted and weak
The 2014 sanctions against Russia did have some effect — arguably more than many people have realized. They made it harder for Russian banks to obtain foreign loans and restricted Western companies from working with Russian oil companies, among other steps.
By the summer of 2014, Russia’s economy was shrinking, and it continued shrinking for two years. The value of the ruble plunged on global markets, increasing the price of many goods for companies and consumers. Russian businesses had a harder time raising money for new projects.
These economic problems seem to have softened Putin’s domestic support. His approval rating among Russians initially surged after the Crimea invasion — to around 80 percent — before falling. It has hovered between 60 percent and 65 percent for much of the past two years, according to the Levada Center. Last year, opposition groups held some of the largest protests of Putin’s nearly two decades in power.
The sanctions might even have been painful enough to have deterred Putin from invading eastern Ukraine in 2014, which he seemed to be planning, as Anders Aslund and Maria Snegovaya have argued in an Atlantic Council report.
Monday's sanctions were even steeper than 2014 and the ones coming later this week will be targeted to completely cripple Russia.
I was reading this morning that China's statements are walking a tightrope, but apparently not happy about Russia invading. They claim to be taken off guard, FWTW.
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One of the things people fail to understand is the Ukrainian government does not have the undying loyalty of its people.
The government itself is a kleptocracy. Our own experience there was awful, with rank and file Ukrainians asking, "why should we fight for this country...they will just steal us blind." There was an incredible amount of apathy toward the country by its citizens due largely to the government's lack of an ability to deal with day-to-day problems of Ukrainians.
Our driver there needed funds to bribe the proctor so he could take and pass his medical boards. Left open was the question of whether you could fail the Ukrainian medical boards and still be certified by bribing the proctor. Our son was adopted near Luhansk and weighed 12 pounds at 14 months due to a complete lack of nutrition. He was warehoused and almost left for dead for the first year of his life. We could not travel for a week because we had to get enough nourishment into him so he could be strong enough to travel.
His orphanage director was indicted by the general prosecutor for accepting bribes that allowed tainted baby food into the orphanage. 31 children like my son died because of horrible food poisoning. They were buried in the back yard of the orphanage and he was caught only because some of the children were slated to go to America. This is the kind of problem that occurs in Ukraine every day. It makes Illinois look like the capital of good government.
The risk of over-committing to Ukraine is we end up in another Vietnam, where the government we support does not have the support of the people. The risk of under-committing is that we end up not confronting tyranny and end up surrendering our leadership role in the world, like we did at the end of World War I.
Russia is so terribly corrupt.
My company is owned by a Finnish company and the corporation has a sales office in St. Petersburg.
Russia is one of less than a handful of countries that pre-payment is required before any shipments are made.
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Ukraine might as well throw their hands up and concede. There is no way the Ukraine defense forces can protect the country without significant losses to both military and civilians. Russia is just pinpointing certain Ukraine defense sites and airports. Then it will be bridges/roads. Then all Ukraine communication/TV/media sites. Then come the troops. NATO can only stand by and watch. Zelensky tried his hardest, but Putin will not stop until they are in control with his appointed government. Shame, because the Ukraine people seem extremely down to earth and now they are starting to flee to Poland.
It would be like a Scooper going into a cage match with Mike Tyson, not going to win. I wouldn't even enter the cage.
If Ukraine throws in the towel, then losses to the civilian population will be minimized. Zelensky asking the citizens to get guns and help the country was not a good sign. This is not like the movie Red Dawn.......
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One of the things people fail to understand is the Ukrainian government does not have the undying loyalty of its people.
The government itself is a kleptocracy. Our own experience there was awful, with rank and file Ukrainians asking, "why should we fight for this country...they will just steal us blind." There was an incredible amount of apathy toward the country by its citizens due largely to the government's lack of an ability to deal with day-to-day problems of Ukrainians.
Our driver there needed funds to bribe the proctor so he could take and pass his medical boards. Left open was the question of whether you could fail the Ukrainian medical boards and still be certified by bribing the proctor. Our son was adopted near Luhansk and weighed 12 pounds at 14 months due to a complete lack of nutrition. He was warehoused and almost left for dead for the first year of his life. We could not travel for a week because we had to get enough nourishment into him so he could be strong enough to travel.
His orphanage director was indicted by the general prosecutor for accepting bribes that allowed tainted baby food into the orphanage. 31 children like my son died because of horrible food poisoning. They were buried in the back yard of the orphanage and he was caught only because some of the children were slated to go to America. This is the kind of problem that occurs in Ukraine every day. It makes Illinois look like the capital of good government.
The risk of over-committing to Ukraine is we end up in another Vietnam, where the government we support does not have the support of the people. The risk of under-committing is that we end up not confronting tyranny and end up surrendering our leadership role in the world, like we did at the end of World War I.
Your knowledge of Ukrainian politics is fairly out of date. The current president of Ukraine is an entertainment (literally a clown by profession). The Ukrainian revolution changed the government significantly.
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Ukraine might as well throw their hands up and concede. There is no way the Ukraine defense forces can protect the country without significant losses to both military and civilians. Russia is just pinpointing certain Ukraine defense sites and airports. Then it will be bridges/roads. Then all Ukraine communication/TV/media sites. Then come the troops. NATO can only stand by and watch. Zelensky tried his hardest, but Putin will not stop until they are in control with his appointed government. Shame, because the Ukraine people seem extremely down to earth and now they are starting to flee to Poland.
It would be like a Scooper going into a cage match with Mike Tyson, not going to win. I wouldn't even enter the cage.
If Ukraine throws in the towel, then losses to the civilian population will be minimized. Zelensky asking the citizens to get guns and help the country was not a good sign. This is not like the movie Red Dawn.......
The move by Russia to invade is going to be very costly. There are 44 million people in Ukraine. There were far less in Chechnya and it was bloody and unpopular. Ukrainians will probably create an insurgency in the same way.
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Your knowledge of Ukrainian politics is fairly out of date. The current president of Ukraine is an entertainment (literally a clown by profession). The Ukrainian revolution changed the government significantly.
The government changed.
Do you really think the corruption did? Do you really think the Ukrainian Mafia is less prevalent now than it was in the late 1990s?
I don't. I think the issues are the same both before and after the Velvet Revolution.
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The government changed.
Do you really think the corruption did? Do you really think the Ukrainian Mafia is less prevalent now than it was in the late 1990s?
I don't. I think the issues are the same both before and after the Velvet Revolution.
Of course not, and change takes time, but 2006 Ukraine isn't 2022 Ukraine either.
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I don't think you see any attempt on Poland or other Slavic/Baltic states.
The thing I'd worry more about, is China using the same logic as Russia to invade Taiwan.
I would hope not but I'm reading an article about his main goal is to bring back the Tsarist Russia. If that were the case he'd obviously want to hit the country with the weakest alliance (no NATO or EU) before trying the others.
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We can open up more of our energy reserves and make a deal with the Euro countries dependent on Putin and Russia.
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I tried to clean up some of the latest purely politically motivated posts. Jockey, 4ever, Rocket, Zig - if you can't keep your opinions of present or former presidents out of this, I'll just use the ban-hammer next time.
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The government changed.
Do you really think the corruption did? Do you really think the Ukrainian Mafia is less prevalent now than it was in the late 1990s?
I don't. I think the issues are the same both before and after the Velvet Revolution.
Their government is incredibly corrupt and not really a democracy at all. But we know Putin will go after the Baltics and then the former Soviet Bloc countries. We need to eliminate his only leverage which is oil.
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I tried to clean up some of the latest purely politically motivated posts. Jockey, 4ever, Rocket, Zig - if you can't keep your opinions of present or former presidents out of this, I'll just use the ban-hammer next time.
What did I say about any former presidents besides calling out jockitch?
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Ukraine might as well throw their hands up and concede. There is no way the Ukraine defense forces can protect the country without significant losses to both military and civilians. Russia is just pinpointing certain Ukraine defense sites and airports. Then it will be bridges/roads. Then all Ukraine communication/TV/media sites. Then come the troops. NATO can only stand by and watch. Zelensky tried his hardest, but Putin will not stop until they are in control with his appointed government. Shame, because the Ukraine people seem extremely down to earth and now they are starting to flee to Poland.
It would be like a Scooper going into a cage match with Mike Tyson, not going to win. I wouldn't even enter the cage.
If Ukraine throws in the towel, then losses to the civilian population will be minimized. Zelensky asking the citizens to get guns and help the country was not a good sign. This is not like the movie Red Dawn.......
No, it's not a fair fight and will be ugly. Of course the Russians fully expected to roll Finland during the 1940-41 Winter War and did not anticipate Simo Hayha annihilating 700+ by himself. Why there isn't a feature film of Simo is absurd. Total badass.
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What did I say about any former presidents besides calling out jockitch?
If you can't ignore or report, then I've got a hammer. And that wasn't an exhaustive list, I just went back to the beginning. Tower and Rico bit on political traps too. Just naming some names, I don't care who does it next.
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I don't think you see any attempt on Poland or other Slavic/Baltic states.
The thing I'd worry more about, is China using the same logic as Russia to invade Taiwan.
Yes, this is an enormous concern as is Iran.
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If you can't ignore or report, then I've got a hammer. And that wasn't an exhaustive list, I just went back to the beginning. Tower and Rico bit on political traps too. Just naming some names, I don't care who does it next.
Whatever.
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Yes, this is an enormous concern as is Iran.
Iran invading Taiwan? Or what about Iran?
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Iran invading Taiwan? Or what about Iran?
Iran will target Israel.
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If you can't ignore or report, then I've got a hammer. And that wasn't an exhaustive list, I just went back to the beginning. Tower and Rico bit on political traps too. Just naming some names, I don't care who does it next.
That's fair. What other weapons do you have at your disposal out of curiosity?
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Yes, this is an enormous concern as is Iran.
Iran is a boogeyman with no regional power.
Their government is incredibly corrupt and not really a democracy at all. But we know Putin will go after the Baltics and then the former Soviet Bloc countries. We need to eliminate his only leverage which is oil.
It's a fairly young democracy. Calling it not one is wildly incorrect. Putin isn't going after the Baltic states. As I said earlier, if he dies we will all die.
The sanctions we and the other international powers have imposed are directed at the oil/gas portion of Russias economy. So we are already doing that.
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That's fair. What other weapons do you have at your disposal out of curiosity?
Arby’s horsey sauce
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I accept my warning and will endeavor to do better in the future.
We are down to sanctions or boots on the ground. Freeze enough oligarch money, isolate them as much as possible. Long term, time to start arming the crap out of NATO.
If China takes Taiwan, what are the options? Even fewer than with Russia.
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Iran invading Taiwan? Or what about Iran?
I think China and Iran are watching this very closely. We know Iran's influence from a funding terrorism perspective and Israel of course is always vulnerable.
If it were up to me Galway there would only be like 20 countries and we would have 98% of the world's power as I'm sure you know. Of course Ireland would be on my 20 list. :)
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Their government is incredibly corrupt and not really a democracy at all. But we know Putin will go after the Baltics and then the former Soviet Bloc countries. We need to eliminate his only leverage which is oil.
What are you willing to accept as a result. There isn't enough oil and natural gas out there. If we divert some of our resources to Europe, our supplies are inadequate.
Are you willing to pay $6-7 a gallon at the pump, and have electricity/heating bills in the $1-2k a month range?
Do you think other American's are willing to accept the same?
There is a reason that for the most part the world looks the other way when certain countries violate the rules. The question is whether the rise in global nationalism starts to extend to other conflicts or not.
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Iran is a boogeyman with no regional power.
It's a fairly young democracy. Calling it not one is wildly incorrect. Putin isn't going after the Baltic states. As I said earlier, if he dies we will all die.
The sanctions we and the other international powers have imposed are directed at the oil/gas portion of Russias economy. So we are already doing that.
You don't think we can produce more oil here and essentially cripple him permanently? He has no leverage without the Euro market.
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Iran will target Israel.
0% chance. Israel has nukes.
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If China takes Taiwan, what are the options? Even fewer than with Russia.
Just my two cents but Xi is smarter and gives way more of a frack than Putin, so his Taiwan play won't be nearly as hamfisted. But you're right, there isn't much we can do. And the the interconnectedness of our economy with the Chinese economy means there is way less we can even do from a sanctions standpoint. This is all evolving into a conversation about who strongmen can and can't hit. To quote The Departed - Ukraine and Taiwan aren't guys you can't hit, but they're almost guys you can't hit. I think Israel is actually a guy you can't hit.
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What are you willing to accept as a result. There isn't enough oil and natural gas out there. If we divert some of our resources to Europe, our supplies are inadequate.
Are you willing to pay $6-7 a gallon at the pump, and have electricity/heating bills in the $1-2k a month range?
Do you think other American's are willing to accept the same?
There is a reason that for the most part the world looks the other way when certain countries violate the rules. The question is whether the rise in global nationalism starts to extend to other conflicts or not.
Would opening up Keystone and some of our other reserves make prices rise to that level?
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You don't think we can produce more oil here and essentially cripple him permanently? He has no leverage without the Euro market.
I agree.
Russia has no other export except military hardware and some minerals.
There was a report yesterday before the invasion that several of the oligarchs were already pissed and squawking in his ear to no avail.
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Would opening up Keystone and some of our other reserves make prices rise to that level?
I think here is where the oil is coming from to replace Russia's. Russia's invasion is paving the way to a quick resolve.
Negotiations over the Iran nuclear deal are close to the end, and a deal appears possible
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/02/23/iran-us-nuclear-deal/
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0% chance. Israel has nukes.
So has Israel never been attacked since they've had Nukes?
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0% chance. Israel has nukes.
So does Ukraine.
Don't assume that putin, Xi, and the clerics are rational actors.
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You don't think we can produce more oil here and essentially cripple him permanently? He has no leverage without the Euro market.
Permanently is not realistic. Siberia is a carbon rich area and MASSIVE. Getting to it is a challenge.
Ideally, this is why we aim for a carbon neutral economy. Less volatility is national security. Germany should have never started closing down their nuclear power plants.
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So does Ukraine.
Don't assume that putin, Xi, and the clerics are rational actors.
Incorrect. Ukraine gave them up because we said we'd all ha e their backs if anything like this happened. They never should have given them up.
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Incorrect. Ukraine gave them up because we said we'd all ha e their backs if anything like this happened. They never should have given them up.
I stand corrected. That was dumb.
Still think Iran could take advantage of Ukraine and Taiwan to attack israel.
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It would be like a Scooper going into a cage match with Mike Tyson
Depends on the Scooper.
Rico would make make Tyson fade to Bolivian!
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So has Israel never been attacked since they've had Nukes?
Not seriously, no. And they've never "confirmed" officially that they have them. But it is a widely accepted fact that they have them.
No one has successfully attacked Israel since the state was created after WW2. The only attempts were Israel absolutely destroying the surrounding invaders and taking their territory in 1967 (I think this year).
Israel is no pushover.
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Would opening up Keystone and some of our other reserves make prices rise to that level?
There isn't enough oil period. Maybe it isn't to those exact numbers, but you would see absurd increases in pricing. This would be particularly devastating for natural gas supplies.
Right now, Putin is still selling/delivering natural gas to Europe. If that ceases, it will be crippling to Europe and there isn't enough global production to mitigate the effects. Russia produces 18% of the entire world supply. Iran is the 3rd largest producer with 5% of the global supply.
I think here is where the oil is coming from to replace Russia's. Russia's invasion is paving the way to a quick resolve.
Negotiations over the Iran nuclear deal are close to the end, and a deal appears possible
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/02/23/iran-us-nuclear-deal/
Not surprising and expected. Can't have massive sanctions against both Russia and Iran.
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I stand corrected. That was dumb.
Still think Iran could take advantage of Ukraine and Taiwan to attack israel.
Iran does make bad decisions and this would be a massive blunder. I'd wager they attack Saudi Arabia before Israel.
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Incorrect. Ukraine gave them up because we said we'd all ha e their backs if anything like this happened. They never should have given them up.
I believe they got rid of them in the 90's.? If they were given Nukes after 2014 do you think Putin would have never done this? The guy is a scumbag and a sociopath. Maybe a Denzel/Equalizer guy can pay him a little visit?
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Not seriously, no. And they've never "confirmed" officially that they have them. But it is a widely accepted fact that they have them.
No one has successfully attacked Israel since the state was created after WW2. The only attempts were Israel absolutely destroying the surrounding invaders and taking their territory in 1967 (I think this year).
Israel is no pushover.
So you're not including anything before the early 70's ? Or many terrorist attacks? We have no idea what Iran would or would not do if they get or build a Nuke.
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my wife was texting with her brother last night as he's in military intelligence at the Pentagon. He said this is an "8 out of 10" in terms of global destabilization. A 10 would be use of nuclear weapons which he doesn't see happening.
"We've appeased Putin for too long, there's no going back."
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Iran will target Israel.
A more likely concern is Israel attacks Iran, especially if the world ends sanctions against Iran.
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my wife was texting with her brother last night as he's in military intelligence at the Pentagon. He said this is an "8 out of 10" in terms of global destabilization. A 10 would be use of nuclear weapons which he doesn't see happening.
"We've appeased Putin for too long, there's no going back."
So I should start heading back to the boxing gym to prep for the draft?
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So you're not including anything before the early 70's ? Or many terrorist attacks? We have no idea what Iran would or would not do if they get or build a Nuke.
I'm confused as to what you're asking. Israel is very capable of defending itself regionally. Iran won't touch them because if things started to go bad for Israel, Tehran would get nuked. If Iran gets nukes its just another world power that has them.
Countries that have nukes don't fight other countries that have nukes. So far. Mutually assured destruction (MAD) is a helluva deterrent.
No one uses nukes for a very good reason.
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I believe they got rid of them in the 90's.? If they were given Nukes after 2014 do you think Putin would have never done this? The guy is a scumbag and a sociopath. Maybe a Denzel/Equalizer guy can pay him a little visit?
I think it's part of the Minsk Accords where Ukraine agreed to give the nukes back to Russia if Russia agrees that the borders of Ukraine are frozen and they will respect the current. Russia obviously violated this treaty in 2014.
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A more likely concern is Israel attacks Iran, especially if the world ends sanctions against Iran.
that's an interesting flip to it, don't disagree. Israel would annihilate Iran if they tried something akin to an invasion. And the US would back them up. Taiwan has always been hanging out there and I agree that that scenario is the riskier one, given our steadfast support for Taiwan should such an invasion happen.
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I'm confused as to what you're asking. Israel is very capable of defending itself regionally. Iran won't touch them because if things started to go bad for Israel, Tehran would get nuked. If Iran gets nukes its just another world power that has them.
Countries that have nukes don't fight other countries that have nukes. So far. Mutually assured destruction (MAD) is a helluva deterrent.
No one uses nukes for a very good reason.
I don't really make a distinction between proxy terrorist groups funded by Iran and Iran.
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I don't really make a distinction between proxy terrorist groups funded by Iran and Iran.
Do Saudi Arabia next.
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So I should start heading back to the boxing gym to prep for the draft?
I don't see a draft happening ever again. That said, if it did the usual pro-war hawks would probably refuse due to siding with Putin because that's what their Fox News overlords are telling them to do, and the doves who are now supporting military action would likely rush off to Canada.
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I don't really make a distinction between proxy terrorist groups funded by Iran and Iran.
What about thr ones funded by the US
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One of the things people fail to understand is the Ukrainian government does not have the undying loyalty of its people.
The government itself is a kleptocracy. Our own experience there was awful, with rank and file Ukrainians asking, "why should we fight for this country...they will just steal us blind." There was an incredible amount of apathy toward the country by its citizens due largely to the government's lack of an ability to deal with day-to-day problems of Ukrainians.
Our driver there needed funds to bribe the proctor so he could take and pass his medical boards. Left open was the question of whether you could fail the Ukrainian medical boards and still be certified by bribing the proctor. Our son was adopted near Luhansk and weighed 12 pounds at 14 months due to a complete lack of nutrition. He was warehoused and almost left for dead for the first year of his life. We could not travel for a week because we had to get enough nourishment into him so he could be strong enough to travel.
His orphanage director was indicted by the general prosecutor for accepting bribes that allowed tainted baby food into the orphanage. 31 children like my son died because of horrible food poisoning. They were buried in the back yard of the orphanage and he was caught only because some of the children were slated to go to America. This is the kind of problem that occurs in Ukraine every day. It makes Illinois look like the capital of good government.
The risk of over-committing to Ukraine is we end up in another Vietnam, where the government we support does not have the support of the people. The risk of under-committing is that we end up not confronting tyranny and end up surrendering our leadership role in the world, like we did at the end of World War I.
An eye opening, informative, and heartbreaking post. Thanks for sharing this.
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Mufan i Hope that is true. Meanwhile we hold the key to the energy issue as the US oil supply is almost limitless and could cripple Putin if we unleashed our resources. Russia has been described as a "gas station with a nuclear arsenal" We could seriously curtail his business if we had the will.
Years ago I sailed with an engineer who was an oil expert and lectured around the world on the subject
In conversation ,he mentioned that he believed that oil was being created continuously. I pray for a non-military solution to this situation
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Regardless of our mistakes in the past we all need to support the current administration. I'm very interested in what Biden will say today. I'd like to hear more specifics about these sanctions and whether we can cripple their banking system and energy piggy bank permanently.
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Target the oligarch assets across the globe.
OT: Iran? Really? I always find it silly when people disparage Iran and gladly accept our alliance with the Saudis
Also, Israel began openly attacking Syria today. So there's that
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Regardless of our mistakes in the past we all need to support the current administration. I'm very interested in what Biden will say today. I'd like to hear more specifics about these sanctions and whether we can cripple their banking system and energy piggy bank permanently.
On that point, I thought this morning that one unintended consequence of Russia's misconduct is it could unite Americans to rally around a single purpose. Perhaps that's naive, especially given the odd things some talking heads have been saying. But I'm hoping it could help break the horrible divisiveness here.
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On that point, I thought this morning that one unintended consequence of Russia's misconduct is it could unite Americans to rally around a single purpose. Perhaps that's naive, especially given the odd things some talking heads have been saying. But I'm hoping it could help break the horrible divisiveness here.
I feel like this country is too far gone from ever being able to unite on any issue. During the height of the cold war would any news organization have openly supported the Soviet regime mainly out of spite of the current Administration? Would one side be infusing racial issues into reasons to oppose aggressive actions?
I give major props to the protesters in St. Petersburg and Moscow who are rallying against Putin's actions. They're putting their lives at risk to show their government they do not support their (his) actions. https://twitter.com/AVindman/status/1496900368344797184
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On that point, I thought this morning that one unintended consequence of Russia's misconduct is it could unite Americans to rally around a single purpose. Perhaps that's naive, especially given the odd things some talking heads have been saying. But I'm hoping it could help break the horrible divisiveness here.
I really hope you are right. If you look at the clownish right and left outlets they are already blaming one another. And if anything their ratings are going to go up since there is a war on now.
And if we do start to get more united I would bet Russia/China will find some new astroturf issues to get Americans all pissed off at one another while they laugh at us.
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This one is making the rounds.
Apparently, Russian military service is compulsory and many of the soldiers have no interest is shooting Ukrainians.
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This one is making the rounds.
Apparently, Russian military service is compulsory and many of the soldiers have no interest is shooting Ukrainians.
Putin is deeply unpopular in his own country. He hasn't been fairly elected in two decades.
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I think we need to hear more specifics about these banks vs Swift from the Treasury. It's pretty clear Germany doesn't want to cut Russia off. Biden stated these sanctions will be more damaging to Putin than kicking Russia out of Swift but we don't have a lot of details.
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Putin is deeply unpopular in his own country. He hasn't been fairly elected in two decades.
Which to me is a problem as he doesn't have to care about being reelected or popular opinion.
The fact the Russian hockey team has been wearing "CCCP" jerseys during international competitions recently should have been a warning as to what Putin is seeking.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-20/russia-s-hockey-team-raises-eyebrows-with-throwback-ussr-jerseys
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On that point, I thought this morning that one unintended consequence of Russia's misconduct is it could unite Americans to rally around a single purpose. Perhaps that's naive, especially given the odd things some talking heads have been saying. But I'm hoping it could help break the horrible divisiveness here.
As most of us here are pretty mainstream, we would love to believe it - and I don't think that is necessarily naive. But there are 10s of millions that listen and watch really crazy crap every day.
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Putin is deeply unpopular in his own country. He hasn't been fairly elected in two decades ever.
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I’m not trying to state an opinion why we should or shouldn’t, but why do we care about this? Oil? Cold War ptsd? Human rights?
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I’m not trying to state an opinion why we should or shouldn’t, but why do we care about this? Oil? Cold War ptsd? Human rights?
“It doesn’t affect me. Why should I care?”
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I’m not trying to state an opinion why we should or shouldn’t, but why do we care about this? Oil? Cold War ptsd? Human rights?
My guess is the lack of buffer zone for countries we actually have allied ourselves with. Plus the refugee crisis it creates. Oh and the massive energy destabilization
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“It doesn’t affect me. Why should I care?”
Man I hate that sentiment.
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My guess is the lack of buffer zone for countries we actually have allied ourselves with. Plus the refugee crisis it creates. Oh and the massive energy destabilization
We have had a buffer or lack of buffer all over the world, why Ukraine? Because Russia is more likely to start a nuclear war? Should the US open our borders for refugees? Is that a better option than putting money and bodies in Ukraine? Will there be massive destabilization? Russia needs to export oil?
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I’m not trying to state an opinion why we should or shouldn’t, but why do we care about this? Oil? Cold War ptsd? Human rights?
Because you don't just invade another country without a reason other then Putin is a demented asshat. Ukraine was on the right path and it's time to put the brakes on dictators doing dictator things.
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Man I hate that sentiment.
That isn't my sentiment. It was my opinion on your comment's meaning.
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“It doesn’t affect me. Why should I care?”
Racism, Poverty, Human trafficking, Global Warming (i'm old) don't/won't effect me . Why should I care. Character revealed
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That isn't my sentiment. It was my opinion on your comment's meaning.
Not the way I feel in the least, which is why I said I’m not making an opinion, I was genuinely curious. I wasn’t saying you felt that way either, simply stating I hate that sentiment. Just trying to sift through the usual political rhetoric and ask what people who are clearly more intelligent and knowledgeable on the subject think.
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Because you don't just invade another country without a reason other then Putin is a demented asshat. Ukraine was on the right path and it's time to put the brakes on dictators doing dictator things.
Fair, and like most, I assume, I’m not fond of a good old invasion. I’m definitely not a scholar on Ukraine, so I’ll take your word for it, and from what I do know, seems like a reasonable take. Is Ukraine currently pro-democracy?
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An eye opening, informative, and heartbreaking post. Thanks for sharing this.
Good news is my son is in his 20s, a full American Citizen and has completed a college degree at Southern Illinois University. Few people truly understand what the challenges are coming from that environment. He faced strong challenges in his life and has handled them with good cheer and determination.
My son is an off-the-charts good guy!
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Racism, Poverty, Human trafficking, Global Warming (i'm old) don't/won't effect me . Why should I care. Character revealed
I don’t think he was saying that at all, and neither was I. I know there is sentiment out there that we shouldn’t care outside our borders, or that we should care more about outside our borders, or a combo.
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Good news is my son is in his 20s, a full American Citizen and has completed a college degree at Southern Illinois University. Few people truly understand what the challenges are coming from that environment. He faced strong challenges in his life and has handled them with good cheer and determination.
My son is an off-the-charts good guy!
Incredible from you and your son. I can only hope to impact the world like you have, mad respect.
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Putin is deeply unpopular in his own country.
So was Trump. So is Biden.
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So was Trump. So is Biden.
Meanwhile, the mayor of Kyiv is very popular and along with his brother, is calling for action. Sorry Putin, you're not getting past these two:
https://www.cbssports.com/boxing/news/ukrainian-former-world-champions-wladimir-kitschko-vitali-klitschko-take-up-arms-amid-russian-invasion/
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dgies
I like you more and more every month. Looking forward to meeting you at Final Four or down in FL one of these days.
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So was Trump. So is Biden.
Are these numbers correct? In the US this would be considered "wildly popular"
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/putins-popularity-with-russians-has-been-rising-ahead-of-ukraine-invasion-but-thats-unlikely-to-last-11645727255
Approximately 69% of Russians now approve of Putin, compared to the 61% who approved of him in August 2021, according to Russian polling agency the Levada Center. And 29% of Russians disapprove of Putin, down from 37% in August 2021.
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dgies
I like you more and more every month. Looking forward to meeting you at Final Four or down in FL one of these days.
He has a fatal flaw tho...Cardinals fan....
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dgies
I like you more and more every month. Looking forward to meeting you at Final Four or down in FL one of these days.
It is a scoop-mas miracle. God bless us, everyone.
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Are these numbers correct? In the US this would be considered "wildly popular"
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/putins-popularity-with-russians-has-been-rising-ahead-of-ukraine-invasion-but-thats-unlikely-to-last-11645727255
How many Russians answered honestly when some person comes up and asks "Do you favor Putin"?
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Meanwhile, the mayor of Kyiv is very popular and along with his brother, is calling for action. Sorry Putin, you're not getting past these two:
https://www.cbssports.com/boxing/news/ukrainian-former-world-champions-wladimir-kitschko-vitali-klitschko-take-up-arms-amid-russian-invasion/
Meanwhile Usyk and Lomenchenko have both shown their willingness to suck up to Putin or at least accept gifts from his supporters. They're a disgrace compared to the brothers.
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No, it's not a fair fight and will be ugly. Of course the Russians fully expected to roll Finland during the 1940-41 Winter War and did not anticipate Simo Hayha annihilating 700+ by himself. Why there isn't a feature film of Simo is absurd. Total badass.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2VUGfrZyck (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2VUGfrZyck)
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Mufan i Hope that is true. Meanwhile we hold the key to the energy issue as the US oil supply is almost limitless and could cripple Putin if we unleashed our resources. Russia has been described as a "gas station with a nuclear arsenal" We could seriously curtail his business if we had the will.
Years ago I sailed with an engineer who was an oil expert and lectured around the world on the subject
In conversation ,he mentioned that he believed that oil was being created continuously. I pray for a non-military solution to this situation
We do not have anywhere near limitless oil supplies. Our reserves have increased greatly since oil-sands have came online, but we still only have like 5% of the worlds oil. Russia has more than us.
And worse, at our current production rate, we will exhaust our proven reserves in ~15 years. Tapping into more of those reserves just means we face a major crisis sooner.
And while oil is technically being created continuously, it occurs at such a slow rate that it doesn't significantly impact our reserves.
Another solution, is to quit sanctions with Venezuela, and open up their reserves (~5x as much as the US and 20+% of the proven reserves.
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Meanwhile Usyk and Lomenchenko have both shown their willingness to suck up to Putin. They're a disgrace compared to the brothers.
Loma did? Did he confuse "Teofemo Lopez" with "Putin?" Very disappointing. Usyk is a dbag, always has been.
I looked up his IG and it a bunch of weasel words, seemingly trying to stay neutral: https://www.instagram.com/p/CaX1HDyjPeG/
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Many Russians miss the good old days when it was a genuine world power and it could impose its will on lesser nations. Even Stalin is enjoying a Renaissance. There are those who cheer Putin's muscle-flexing and support his efforts, likely older Russians.
https://medium.com/dfrlab/stalin-revived-and-admired-in-russia-37d753e734#:~:text=On%20April%2016%2C%202019%2C%20the%20Levada%20Center%2C%20an,the%20Soviet%20leader%E2%80%99s%20approval%20rating%20at%2054%20percent.
Compared to Israel and Taiwan, Ukraine is low hanging fruit. Israel has been prepared for war its entire existence and remains so today. No other middle East country will send armed troops over its border. It is something of a similar situation in Taiwan which includes the natural buffer of the Taiwan Strait between it and mainland China. An amphibious assault would create a lot of casualties.
Putin is vary familiar of the disastrous Russian incursion into Afghanistan. I doubt he is interested in occupying Ukraine long term. He wants Zelensky out and a pro-Russian in. I just can't see that ever being acceptable to the Ukrainian people considering they threw out the last one. He would have to leave a Russian force in the Ukraine to prop up his stooge. Whether the Ukrainian people would accept that without a systematic insurgency is the great unknown. Maybe it's time for Zelensky to start thinking of ways to relent to some of Putin's demands about membership in NATO and the eastern region to save a lot of destruction. Not saying he should but it seems to me Ukraine's long term interests would best be served by walking the fine line between east and west.
Finally, to refer to Zelensky as a "clown" is misleading. He earned his law degree before going into entertainment. An actor or comedian would be fair, kind of like Ronald Reagan!
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Loma did? Did he confuse "Teofemo Lopez" with "Putin?" Very disappointing. Usyk is a dbag, always has been.
I looked up his IG and it a bunch of weasel words, seemingly trying to stay neutral: https://www.instagram.com/p/CaX1HDyjPeG/
That's the post that got me pissed
There's also this that read this AM
http://thecomeback.com/queensberryrules/2020-articles/im-ukrainian-and-i-cannot-cheer-for-oleksandr-usyk-or-vasyl-lomachenko.html
Meanwhile the brothers are ready to die for their country.
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I saw this summary of today's sanctions:
The White House has now issued a fact sheet on the new sanctions, which include:
* Severing the connection to the U.S. financial system for Russia’s largest financial institution, Sberbank
* Full blocking sanctions on Russia’s second largest financial institution, VTB Bank (VTB)
* Full blocking sanctions on three other major Russian financial institutions: Bank Otkritie, Sovcombank OJSC, and Novikombank
* New debt and equity restrictions on 13 of the most critical major Russian enterprises and entities
* Additional full blocking sanctions on seven Russian elites and their family members
* Sanctions on 24 Belarusian individuals and entities, including targeting Belarus’ military and financial capabilities by sanctioning two significant Belarusian state-owned banks, nine defense firms, and seven regime-connected official and elites
* Exports of nearly all U.S. items and items produced in foreign countries using certain U.S.-origin software, technology, or equipment will be restricted
* Russia-wide restrictions on technological goods critical to a diversified economy and Putin’s ability to project power; that includes exports of Russian technology
* Tax and fee exemptions for other countries that join in the restrictions on Russia.
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Many Russians miss the good old days when it was a genuine world power and it could impose its will on lesser nations. Even Stalin is enjoying a Renaissance. There are those who cheer Putin's muscle-flexing and support his efforts, likely older Russians.
https://medium.com/dfrlab/stalin-revived-and-admired-in-russia-37d753e734#:~:text=On%20April%2016%2C%202019%2C%20the%20Levada%20Center%2C%20an,the%20Soviet%20leader%E2%80%99s%20approval%20rating%20at%2054%20percent.
Compared to Israel and Taiwan, Ukraine is low hanging fruit. Israel has been prepared for war its entire existence and remains so today. No other middle East country will send armed troops over its border. It is something of a similar situation in Taiwan which includes the natural buffer of the Taiwan Strait between it and mainland China. An amphibious assault would create a lot of casualties.
Putin is vary familiar of the disastrous Russian incursion into Afghanistan. I doubt he is interested in occupying Ukraine long term. He wants Zelensky out and a pro-Russian in. I just can't see that ever being acceptable to the Ukrainian people considering they threw out the last one. He would have to leave a Russian force in the Ukraine to prop up his stooge. Whether the Ukrainian people would accept that without a systematic insurgency is the great unknown. Maybe it's time for Zelensky to start thinking of ways to relent to some of Putin's demands about membership in NATO and the eastern region to save a lot of destruction. Not saying he should but it seems to me Ukraine's long term interests would best be served by walking the fine line between east and west.
Finally, to refer to Zelensky as a "clown" is misleading. He earned his law degree before going into entertainment. An actor or comedian would be fair, kind of like Ronald Reagan!
Appreciate this. Does the West consider Ukraine low hanging fruit, too? Like, the country is clearly a pawn and can be used to promote both the Russian and Western agendas? Is this posturing or is it a serious threat of war? Now, clearly it is serious for those in Ukraine, don’t get me wrong I’m not trying to minimize this situation.
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So was Trump. So is Biden.
You're being pedantic again. Try something new.
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Many Russians miss the good old days when it was a genuine world power and it could impose its will on lesser nations. Even Stalin is enjoying a Renaissance. There are those who cheer Putin's muscle-flexing and support his efforts, likely older Russians.
Yep, and those days are long gone and aren't coming back under Putin's rule.
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build a statue of these brave men:
https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1496989555739746304
Audio from Snake Island, Black Sea:
Russians: This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you’ll be bombed.
Ukrainians: Russian warship, go f--k yourself.
They were all killed
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build a statue of these brave men:
https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1496989555739746304
Audio from Snake Island, Black Sea:
Russians: This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you’ll be bombed.
Ukrainians: Russian warship, go f--k yourself.
They were all killed
Absolutely. They are true heroes. This is going to be really awful the next few days . Even if we drop tons of weapons and night vision into Ukraine they cannot win.. At the same time they're going to fight and this could be much harder than Putin anticipates. It's an enormous country.
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Would now be an appropriate time for another Manhattan project? But this time, work on developing a new type of energy generation that could be exported to the entire world cheap/free
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Absolutely. They are true heroes. This is going to be really awful the next few days . Even if we drop tons of weapons and night vision into Ukraine they cannot win.. At the same time they're going to fight and this could be much harder than Putin anticipates. It's an enormous country.
They don't have to win. They only need to extract enough Russian blood to make them ahe to pull out. Asymmetric warfare is common in conflicts where the belligerents have massive power differences.
The guys on Snake Island have already been awarded posthumous bravery awards.
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build a statue of these brave men:
https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1496989555739746304
Audio from Snake Island, Black Sea:
Russians: This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you’ll be bombed.
Ukrainians: Russian warship, go f--k yourself.
They were all killed
Bold reply. Kudos to those brave men, and Godspeed to Ukraine and its military.
Sounds like Kyiv could be under an all-out assault very soon.
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They don't have to win. They only need to extract enough Russian blood to make them ahe to pull out. Asymmetric warfare is common in conflicts where the belligerents have massive power differences.
The guys on Snake Island have already been awarded posthumous bravery awards.
You are conceivably right. The Finns were inordinately successful in WW2. Of course this is a much different world but they took out a lot of guys while zooming around on skis. Putin is a real, real, real, scumbag. I'm wondering if there could conceivably be a coup if this is not a quick occupation? I would imagine his initial goal is a puppet state like Belarus. The best result I see would be a prolonged insurgency.
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Would now be an appropriate time for another Manhattan project? But this time, work on developing a new type of energy generation that could be exported to the entire world cheap/free
Already in the early stages.
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Patton was right.
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Already in the early stages.
?
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Patton was right.
Was MacArthur correct also?
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Was MacArthur correct also?
No
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F*ck Putin.
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?
Just read it a couple days ago. I’ll try to find it again.
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Putin makes it clear nukes are in play if anyone interferes.
Yet some in America continue to support him.
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Putin makes it clear nukes are in play if anyone interferes.
Yet some in America continue to support him.
Who is supporting him in America? I guess I missed that.
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Who is supporting him in America? I guess I missed that.
Man you're trying to make Rocky work for his paycheck today
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Who is supporting him in America? I guess I missed that.
I am going to honor Rocky's warning. Google 'Americans supporting Putin. '
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I am going to honor Rocky's warning. Google 'Americans supporting Putin. '
Tucker Carlson is the first thing that came up. I don't watch that guy. But I don't think any rational person "supports" Putin. I know some dumb things have been said but I assume both sides are politicizing stuff. This is not the time to be poltical.
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Google “Putin savvy genius”.
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Or 'Putin not woke. '
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At this rate, the situation in Ukraine is almost gonna be as deadly as the Marquette campus.
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You are conceivably right. The Finns were inordinately successful in WW2. Of course this is a much different world but they took out a lot of guys while zooming around on skis. Putin is a real, real, real, scumbag. I'm wondering if there could conceivably be a coup if this is not a quick occupation? I would imagine his initial goal is a puppet state like Belarus. The best result I see would be a prolonged insurgency.
That's the goal. Putin wants to remove the government and replace it with one of his choosing.
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Well those are asinine comments but I don't think they mean support of Putin's actions. I don't think we need to go down this road and discuss actual policies that have gotten us to this point.
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CNN just had a very interesting interview with Colonel Vindman.
Wrote about why they would invade 3 weeks ago. Has some new article in The Atlantic this morning.
What he's seen so far is surprising him..
1) Russian military is overestimated/overrated and highly ineffecient and not as organized as expected He's not seeing them accomplishing key goals very quickly.
2) Ukrainian military has been underestimated. Russians will have to deal with Snake Island attitude all over the country. Inflicting more damage so far than expected.
3) Numerous and we'll attended anti-war demonstrations all over Russia
+++ Yes Russian military is large and the favorite here, but it's early on and war is unpredictable but can see a possibility it getting dragged on combined with unrest at home causing the invasion to fall apart.
Doesn't think Putin wants to cross the NATO line because he knows it's the end and there is no scenario where Russia wins. Their military definitely knows this
Mentioned concerned Russians will repeat Syria. Most don't know there time there was not very good 300 Russian soldiers died before making one kill so they started attacking churches and schools
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At this rate, the situation in Ukraine is almost gonna be as deadly as the Marquette campus.
Go to bed, this was really stupid.
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CNN just had a very interesting interview with Colonel Vindman.
Wrote about why they would invade 3 weeks ago. Has some new article in The Atlantic this morning.
What he's seen so far is surprising him..
1) Russian military is overestimated/overrated and highly ineffecient and not as organized as expected He's not seeing them accomplishing key goals very quickly.
2) Ukrainian military has been underestimated. Russians will have to deal with Snake Island attitude all over the country. Inflicting more damage so far than expected.
3) Numerous and we'll attended anti-war demonstrations all over Russia
+++ Yes Russian military is large and the favorite here, but it's early on and war is unpredictable but can see a possibility it getting dragged on combined with unrest at home causing the invasion to fall apart.
Doesn't think Putin wants to cross the NATO line because he knows it's the end and there is no scenario where Russia wins. Their military definitely knows this
Mentioned concerned Russians will repeat Syria. Most don't know there time there was not very good 300 Russian soldiers died before making one kill so they started attacking churches and schools
It would appear that Russia is also being very strategic. So far, it looks like they are not trying to inflict substantial human casualties, but rather degrade Ukraine's ability to mount a significant defense.
Let's hope that is the case, and stays that way.
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CNN just had a very interesting interview with Colonel Vindman.
Wrote about why they would invade 3 weeks ago. Has some new article in The Atlantic this morning.
What he's seen so far is surprising him..
1) Russian military is overestimated/overrated and highly ineffecient and not as organized as expected He's not seeing them accomplishing key goals very quickly.
2) Ukrainian military has been underestimated. Russians will have to deal with Snake Island attitude all over the country. Inflicting more damage so far than expected.
3) Numerous and we'll attended anti-war demonstrations all over Russia
+++ Yes Russian military is large and the favorite here, but it's early on and war is unpredictable but can see a possibility it getting dragged on combined with unrest at home causing the invasion to fall apart.
Doesn't think Putin wants to cross the NATO line because he knows it's the end and there is no scenario where Russia wins. Their military definitely knows this
Mentioned concerned Russians will repeat Syria. Most don't know there time there was not very good 300 Russian soldiers died before making one kill so they started attacking churches and schools
Is it possible to get Germany in particular out of their reliance on Russian oil? It sounds like that's the main problem with SWIFT being enacted. I mean can you give the Germans an ultimatum of sorts on this issue?
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?
https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/hydrogen-clean-energy-renewable-water-b1879862.html
Not the same article - but describes a similar thing.
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Go to bed, this was really stupid.
He was making fun of 4Ever. If you haven't read the comments in another thread, it would be hard to get the meaning.
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Is it possible to get Germany in particular out of their reliance on Russian oil? It sounds like that's the main problem with SWIFT being enacted. I mean can you give the Germans an ultimatum of sorts on this issue?
You don't give ultimatums like that to an ally.
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Go to bed, this was really stupid.
What? Too soon?
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I saw a headline that made me chuckle
Russians Take Chernobyl
Colonel Ivanovich:
Ok boys we will sleep here tonight That big concrete dome over there should hold all of us Wasn’t it nice of the locals to offer it to us They all spoke of this place in glowing terms
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Putin is pure evil. This is an absolute horror show for the Ukraine and a global catastrophe.
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I did not see this yesterday.
I see an article this morning that Putin threatened "severe retaliation" to the US and Europe if they put in place sanctions and they want to meet to negotiate this. WTF?
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Is it possible to get Germany in particular out of their reliance on Russian oil? It sounds like that's the main problem with SWIFT being enacted. I mean can you give the Germans an ultimatum of sorts on this issue?
Coincidentally, my wife is a little freaked because her parents live 40 miles from the Belarus border
She spoke to her parents yesterday and basically Polish news is saying the same. Europe is wholly united for much more severe sanctions, but the Germans are the one and only holdout and they need to grow a spine
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Coincidentally, my wife is a little freaked because her parents live 40 miles from the Belarus border
She spoke to her parents yesterday and basically Polish news is saying the same. Europe is wholly united for much more severe sanctions, but the Germans are the one and only holdout and they need to grow a spine
Agreed. I think Western Democracies need to deal with reality. And sadly because of how polarized we are politically here it makes things extremely difficult. You can hate one party or the other but the fact is the 2nd and 3rd most powerful countries have governments that are ideologically evil and are determined to change the world order.
Germany is the absolute key here and if they're truly our ally they need to be on board with isolating Putin and finding other oil partners. It's non-negotiable imo and this should be at the top of our priorities. Putin crumbles like a Saltine once his oil stops holding Europe and us to a degree hostage.
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In his most recent speech, Mad King Putin made a veiled threat about using nukes if any country tries to get in his way to rule over Ukraine.
“As for military affairs, even after the dissolution of the USSR and losing a considerable part of its capabilities, today’s Russia remains one of the most powerful nuclear states. Moreover, it has a certain advantage in several cutting-edge weapons. In this context, there should be no doubt for anyone that any potential aggressor will face defeat and ominous consequences should it directly attack our country.”
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In his most recent speech, Mad King Putin made a veiled threat about using nukes if any country tries to get in his way to rule over Ukraine.
“As for military affairs, even after the dissolution of the USSR and losing a considerable part of its capabilities, today’s Russia remains one of the most powerful nuclear states. Moreover, it has a certain advantage in several cutting-edge weapons. In this context, there should be no doubt for anyone that any potential aggressor will face defeat and ominous consequences should it directly attack our country.”
He must know that any attack at NATO or even SEATO (and Japan) would spark a global war.
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Is it possible to get Germany in particular out of their reliance on Russian oil? It sounds like that's the main problem with SWIFT being enacted. I mean can you give the Germans an ultimatum of sorts on this issue?
Out of curiosity, would you support similar sanctions against any nation that according to the UN illegally invades a sovereign nation...e.g. removal from swift.
I agree in that I abhor what is going on, but there is at least room for a philosophical question on who sanctions get applied to, and how severe.
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Out of curiosity, would you support similar sanctions against any nation that according to the UN illegally invades a sovereign nation...e.g. removal from swift.
I agree in that I abhor what is going on, but there is at least room for a philosophical question on who sanctions get applied to, and how severe.
Good point.
Or what about just attacking a sovereign nation without invasion?
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https://twitter.com/MollyBeck/status/1497259172349546499?t=uAwZ_KgsN98xeup4pCghpw&s=19
Weird
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https://twitter.com/MollyBeck/status/1497259172349546499?t=uAwZ_KgsN98xeup4pCghpw&s=19
Weird
Thought I recognized her from the earlier kerfuffle over her baggage when she got hired. The whole "moonlights on RT" thing didn't come up then. I don't know that I would classify it as "weird," but it's pretty clear where her loyalties and incentives lie on international issues.
Whether that has any bearing on her ability to discharge her duties as an assistant city attorney... well... I'll withhold sharing my opinion on the matter but I suspect people could infer my position.
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I saw a headline that made me chuckle
Russians Take Chernobyl
Colonel Ivanovich:
Ok boys we will sleep here tonight That big concrete dome over there should hold all of us Wasn’t it nice of the locals to offer it to us They all spoke of this place in glowing terms
I'm fascinated with Chernobyl, having read books about it and the HBO series was one of the best I've ever seen on TV. I would love to visit the Exclusion Zone someday. I know there are plenty of apartments the Russian military can bunk in to make sure they stay warm during the winter. Maybe they can take in some of the dogs running around and finally get that ferris wheel running.
Though seriously, it appears taking Chernobyl is strategic:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/russia-want-take-chernobyl-rcna17615
Chernobyl is less than 10 miles from Ukraine's border with Belarus, a Russian ally where Moscow has been massing troops in preparation for its attack. From there, it's a relatively straight shot of about 80 miles south to Kyiv.
The route from Belarus to Kyiv through Chernobyl might be particularly appealing to Russian military planners because it would allow them to cross the Dnieper River in Belarus, avoiding a potentially hazardous crossing of the major river, which bisects Ukraine, behind enemy lines.
"They want it because they want to take control of the whole effing country," said Evelyn Farkas, who was deputy assistant secretary of defense for Russia, Ukraine, and Eurasia in the Obama administration. "They want to surround the capital."
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I'm fascinated with Chernobyl, having read books about it and the HBO series was one of the best I've ever seen on TV. I would love to visit the Exclusion Zone someday. I know there are plenty of apartments the Russian military can bunk in to make sure they stay warm during the winter. Maybe they can take in some of the dogs running around and finally get that ferris wheel running.
Though seriously, it appears taking Chernobyl is strategic:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/russia-want-take-chernobyl-rcna17615
Chernobyl is less than 10 miles from Ukraine's border with Belarus, a Russian ally where Moscow has been massing troops in preparation for its attack. From there, it's a relatively straight shot of about 80 miles south to Kyiv.
The route from Belarus to Kyiv through Chernobyl might be particularly appealing to Russian military planners because it would allow them to cross the Dnieper River in Belarus, avoiding a potentially hazardous crossing of the major river, which bisects Ukraine, behind enemy lines.
"They want it because they want to take control of the whole effing country," said Evelyn Farkas, who was deputy assistant secretary of defense for Russia, Ukraine, and Eurasia in the Obama administration. "They want to surround the capital."
I think part of it is a strategic staging ground. Ukraine can't try to target troops there with heavy artillery due to risks to all of Europe.
So whoever controls that site can stage any troops, equipment or attacks from there without risk of major retaliation.
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I know there are plenty of apartments the Russian military can bunk in to make sure they stay warm during the winter.
Though seriously,
Sorry but nothing in my post was
Seriously, rather …
That the locals offered overnight lodging in the concrete dome to the Russians and spoke of it “glowingly “ was supposed to be seen as funny
Have you ever read the Onion?
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Sorry but nothing in my post was
Seriously, rather …
That the locals offered overnight lodging in the concrete dome to the Russians and spoke of it “glowingly “ was supposed to be seen as funny
Have you ever read the Onion?
I know it wasn't, nor was my comment about the available housing (these luxury accommodations unoccupied since 1986), the radioactive dogs, etc.
But, I just also wanted to add in why they would be interested in taking Chernobyl and the Exclusion Zone.
(https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/chernobyl-zone-ghost-city-prypiat-picture-id1030235364?k=20&m=1030235364&s=612x612&w=0&h=5ckoqUAGdzBA5rdUDKvs57-qoxeWzEuZItF-ti7iA1g=)
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Okay, here comes a very hot take.
This has not gone as Putin had hoped. The world is generally united against his invasion, Russia troop casualties apparently (unverified sources) number already in the low thousands, there is little support in Russia for the war as well. I think if they don't wrap this up quickly, Russia is going to turn on Mr. Putin.
Is this the last gasp of Putin? Could this be the end of his regime?
Or I'm just too deep in Western media right now and too optimistic. I could probably use another perspective.
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Okay, here comes a very hot take.
This has not gone as Putin had hoped. The world is generally united against his invasion, Russia troop casualties apparently (unverified sources) number already in the low thousands, there is little support in Russia for the war as well. I think if they don't wrap this up quickly, Russia is going to turn on Mr. Putin.
Is this the last gasp of Putin? Could this be the end of his regime?
Or I'm just too deep in Western media right now and too optimistic. I could probably use another perspective.
We can only hope the military leaders turn on him. I see no other route to getting rid of him.
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Thought I recognized her from the earlier kerfuffle over her baggage when she got hired. The whole "moonlights on RT" thing didn't come up then. I don't know that I would classify it as "weird," but it's pretty clear where her loyalties and incentives lie on international issues.
Whether that has any bearing on her ability to discharge her duties as an assistant city attorney... well... I'll withhold sharing my opinion on the matter but I suspect people could infer my position.
I think people who do this sort of thing are usually compromised in some way by Russian intelligence.
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I think people who do this sort of thing are usually compromised in some way by Russian intelligence.
People always think this, but money talks much louder.
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People always think this, but money talks much louder.
I agree. But once you take the money, you are compromised. They own your future.
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Okay, here comes a very hot take.
This has not gone as Putin had hoped. The world is generally united against his invasion, Russia troop casualties apparently (unverified sources) number already in the low thousands, there is little support in Russia for the war as well. I think if they don't wrap this up quickly, Russia is going to turn on Mr. Putin.
Is this the last gasp of Putin? Could this be the end of his regime?
Or I'm just too deep in Western media right now and too optimistic. I could probably use another perspective.
Do we have the time to send more defense air weaponry (Stingers/Javelins) to Ukrainian resistance fighters? I'm just afraid it's too late. The Russisn forces are in Kiev. It's going to be a messy weekend. We need to provide a no fly zone. That would help immensely.
Putin is a fking madman. His latest meltdown which I just heard translated on the radio, "lecturing" the Ukrainians, is really something. This is reminiscent of Hitler attacking Poland in 1939. It is not inconceivable that his propaganda campaign will lead to a coup. People see and know what's going on in real-time.
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Do we have the time to send more defense air weaponry (Stingers/Javelins) to Ukrainian resistance fighters? I'm just afraid it's too late. The Russisn forces are in Kiev. It's going to be a messy weekend. We need to provide a no fly zone. That would help immensely.
Putin is a fking madman. His latest meltdown which I just heard translated on the radio, "lecturing" the Ukrainians, is really something. This is reminiscent of Hitler attacking Poland in 1939. It is not inconceivable that his propaganda campaign will lead to a coup. People see and know what's going on in real-time.
It's way too late to send anything. We won't provide a no fly zone because we can't enforce it without direct military conflight. That would 100% be a war action.
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Do we have the time to send more defense air weaponry (Stingers/Javelins) to Ukrainian resistance fighters? I'm just afraid it's too late. The Russisn forces are in Kiev. It's going to be a messy weekend. We need to provide a no fly zone. That would help immensely.
Putin is a fking madman. His latest meltdown which I just heard translated on the radio, "lecturing" the Ukrainians, is really something. This is reminiscent of Hitler attacking Poland in 1939. It is not inconceivable that his propaganda campaign will lead to a coup. People see and know what's going on in real-time.
Just heard it. Asking the military to overthrow the government while attacking the military is some special type of crazy. Not to mention blaming them for the invasion and calling a Jewish guy a nazi.
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Okay, here comes a very hot take.
This has not gone as Putin had hoped. The world is generally united against his invasion, Russia troop casualties apparently (unverified sources) number already in the low thousands, there is little support in Russia for the war as well. I think if they don't wrap this up quickly, Russia is going to turn on Mr. Putin.
Is this the last gasp of Putin? Could this be the end of his regime?
Or I'm just too deep in Western media right now and too optimistic. I could probably use another perspective.
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m87hkv1BjJ1qm0u0ao1_500.gif)
Check on this again in a week or more. I think Putin has a lot of Stalin in him.
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I am curious what the intersection of "Ukranian will to fight" and "Russian will to endure insurgency" is going to be. Iran supplied our enemies in the middle east with sufficient materiel to eventually grind down our will to endure. I can't imagine motivated state-level actors in the west couldn't supply an insurgency in Ukraine if the Ukranians were willing to suffer the (likely) scorched earth retaliation of the Russians to do so.
So long as Russia is a nuclear-armed state, it has no peer or near-peer enemies that could conceivably topple Putin from power based on a kinetic war. The only thing that Putin has to fear is internal strife or a coup, and if Ukranians make this conquest one that is bloody enough... well...
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Okay, here comes a very hot take.
This has not gone as Putin had hoped. The world is generally united against his invasion, Russia troop casualties apparently (unverified sources) number already in the low thousands, there is little support in Russia for the war as well. I think if they don't wrap this up quickly, Russia is going to turn on Mr. Putin.
Is this the last gasp of Putin? Could this be the end of his regime?
Or I'm just too deep in Western media right now and too optimistic. I could probably use another perspective.
Hards,
Doing a bunch of reading this afternoon.
* Military analytes universally say there is no way they have accomplished any of their military goals and are way behind their target schedule. They seem to think their supply lines are not performing.
* No shock and awe. Compared US day 1 & 2 in Iraq and Ukraine is their neighboring country and they've only launched less than 3% of what the US launched and we were on the other side of the world.
* Russia does not control the sky yet. Ukraine even attacked a Russian airfield today and knocked out a bunch of planes on the ground.
* He just threated attacking Finland & Sweden today if the decide to join NATO.
* I also see the Russians are saying "retaliation" is coming for the sanctions.
* I'm starting to lean more towards we have to fight them sooner or later and I really hate the thought of that. Costs will be lower now and will deter dictators in the future which is why I'm thinking no fly zone and send more anti-aircraft missiles. Ukrainians actually fight unlike the Afghans.
And I keep seeing the oligarchs are pissed and they got money to spend before it's worthless........
I don't want to escalate, but there is seriously something wrong with Putin. The madness of King George?
And honestly, Biden may just be waiting for Putin to make the first "retaliation" for sanctions because Americans love "you can't do that to us, we'll show you".
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Hards,
Doing a bunch of reading this afternoon.
1. Military analytes universally say there is no way they have accomplished any of their military goals and are way behind their target schedule. They seem to think their supply lines are not performing.
2. No shock and awe. Compared US day 1 & 2 in Iraq and Ukraine is their neighboring country and they've only launched less than 3% of what the US launched and we were on the other side of the world.
3. Russia does not control the sky yet. Ukraine even attacked a Russian airfield today and knocked out a bunch of planes on the ground.
4. I'm starting to lean more towards we have to fight them sooner or later and I really hate the thought of that. Costs will be lower now and will deter dictators in the future which is why I'm thinking no fly zone and send more anti-aircraft missiles. Ukrainians actually fight unlike the Afghans.
And I keep seeing the oligarchs are pissed and they got money to spend before it's worthless........
I don't want to escalate, but there is seriously something wrong with Putin. The madness of King George?
And honestly, Biden may just be waiting for Putin to make the first "retaliation" for sanctions because Americans love "you can't do that to us, we'll show you".
While all of this may be correct, and have read similar things, I'm trying to filter some of this through the lens of media propaganda.
I think some of the above is both due to assumption based errors, and some propaganda.
On 1 and 2. I think western experts are assuming that Putin wanted to do a shock and awe campaign like we did in Iraq/Afghanistan. I do not think that is a correct assumption. Russia's initial attacks seem to clearly focus on infrastructure, and as much as possible avoid direct attacks on barracks, soldiers, and civilians. A shock and awe campaign like we have used would have had a lot of causualties, which I honestly think was being avoided.
What they have still accomplished is surrounding Kyiv, and might be able to take every major city within a week, without bombing soldiers and civilian areas to an extreme.
I think this is because they do not want to occupy it in the end, but have a puppet government. It is more likely that the puppet government is accepted if there were not mass casualties (I'm very likely being naive and overly optimistic in terms of long range casualties).
On 3. They have secured the entire air. The attack on the airfield appears to be from a missile, not any air power.
On 4, I hope that is wrong. An outright war with Russia would be catastrophic.
From Hards' post, I think the casualty reports are likely propaganda. We will not know accurate casualties from either side...probably ever.
I'm hoping that what we have seen so far is because Putin is, strangely enough, using what he sees as a measured response (clearly he is nuts). I hope that is the case, because if this is actually not going as planned, I fear for Ukraine more, because Putin will resort to indiscriminate bombing, and 100's of thousands of innocent people will likely die.
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Those are good bullet points MUFan. It does not appear the advance is going as quickly as they desired. This whole fiasco sheds light on the fact that Russia really is a third world country that happens to have nukes and a ton of oil and gas. No tech, no innovation hub, nothing like the developed world. I guess we all just assumed this Russian military might but really it's Putin's last chance to play war while he's still youngish? What a whack job.
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Those are good bullet points MUFan. It does not appear the advance is going as quickly as they desired. This whole fiasco sheds light on the fact that Russia really is a third world country that happens to have nukes and a ton of oil and gas. No tech, no innovation hub, nothing like the developed world. I guess we all just assumed this Russian military might but really it's Putin's last chance to play war while he's still youngish? What a whack job.
Which is amazing. The amount of brain drain that Russian society has endured since the height of the USSR is devastating.
No one wants to live in a gangster state, and if you have enough money and you are smart enough, you leave Russia the day you can.
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Sports world starting to punish Russia.
F1 cancels the Russian Grand Prix.
https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/33367628/russian-grand-prix-cancelled-ukraine-invasion
UEFA moving Champions League Final from St. Petersburg to Paris.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11945/12551034/champions-league-final-moved-to-paris-from-st-petersburg-after-russian-invasion-of-ukraine
Man United cancels sponsorship deal with Aeroflot
https://www.si.com/soccer/2022/02/25/manchester-united-sponsorship-rights-russian-aeroflot
International Ski Federation cancels five upcoming World Cup events in Russia
https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/skiing-japan-pulls-out-russia-ski-cross-world-cup-event-2022-02-25/
FC Schalke 04 removing logo of its main sponsor, the Russian oil company Gazprom,from their kits.
https://www.npr.org/2022/02/24/1082794434/russia-gazprom-logo-soccer
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Sports world starting to punish Russia.
F1 cancels the Russian Grand Prix.
https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/33367628/russian-grand-prix-cancelled-ukraine-invasion
UEFA moving Champions League Final from St. Petersburg to Paris.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11945/12551034/champions-league-final-moved-to-paris-from-st-petersburg-after-russian-invasion-of-ukraine
Man United cancels sponsorship deal with Aeroflot
https://www.si.com/soccer/2022/02/25/manchester-united-sponsorship-rights-russian-aeroflot
International Ski Federation cancels five upcoming World Cup events in Russia
https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/sports/skiing-japan-pulls-out-russia-ski-cross-world-cup-event-2022-02-25/
FC Schalke 04 removing logo of its main sponsor, the Russian oil company Gazprom,from their kits.
https://www.npr.org/2022/02/24/1082794434/russia-gazprom-logo-soccer
I really don't think Putin cares about this any more than he cared that Russian athletes weren't allowed to represent Russia at the Olympics.
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Adam Kinzinger calls for the US to impose a no-fly zone over Ukraine.
@AdamKinzinger: 1) The fate of #Ukraine is being decided tonight, but also the fate of the west. Declare a #NoFlyZone over Ukraine at the invitation of their sovereign govt. Disrupt Russias air ops to give the heroic Ukrainians a fair fight. It’s now, or later.
@AdamKinzinger: 2) History teaches that taking a stand is inevitable and gets more costly with time. We own the skies, Russia cannot hold a candle to our Air power. Do this. Putin is too dangerous to hope he is satisfied with “just Ukraine.”
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I really don't think Putin cares about this any more than he cared that Russian athletes weren't allowed to represent Russia at the Olympics.
Putin is a huge sports guy and takes a great deal of pride in Russia being on the international sports stage (see: Sochi).
No, this won't cause him to high-tail it out of Ukraine, but the more painful this becomes, and the more isolated Russia becomes, the better.
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Adam Kinzinger calls for the US to impose a no-fly zone over Ukraine.
@AdamKinzinger: 1) The fate of #Ukraine is being decided tonight, but also the fate of the west. Declare a #NoFlyZone over Ukraine at the invitation of their sovereign govt. Disrupt Russias air ops to give the heroic Ukrainians a fair fight. It’s now, or later.
@AdamKinzinger: 2) History teaches that taking a stand is inevitable and gets more costly with time. We own the skies, Russia cannot hold a candle to our Air power. Do this. Putin is too dangerous to hope he is satisfied with “just Ukraine.”
I got there this afternoon for the same reasons he gives.
5 NATO countries began flooding Ukraine with anti air and tank missiles today.
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Adam Kinzinger calls for the US to impose a no-fly zone over Ukraine.
@AdamKinzinger: 1) The fate of #Ukraine is being decided tonight, but also the fate of the west. Declare a #NoFlyZone over Ukraine at the invitation of their sovereign govt. Disrupt Russias air ops to give the heroic Ukrainians a fair fight. It’s now, or later.
@AdamKinzinger: 2) History teaches that taking a stand is inevitable and gets more costly with time. We own the skies, Russia cannot hold a candle to our Air power. Do this. Putin is too dangerous to hope he is satisfied with “just Ukraine.”
Okay, but how to enforce this.
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Okay, but how to enforce this.
I think he's pretty explicit in what he's suggesting.
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I really don't think Putin cares about this any more than he cared that Russian athletes weren't allowed to represent Russia at the Olympics.
Putin cares a lot about sportswashing.
An easy thing to watch is how the English government handles Abromovic and his ownership of Chelsea. Abromovic is a big putin crony.
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The Wieners Circle (@TheWienerCircle) Tweeted:
Мир в Україні
Peace in Ukraine https://t.co/k1KPzbBGAv
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Adam Kinzinger calls for the US to impose a no-fly zone over Ukraine.
@AdamKinzinger: 1) The fate of #Ukraine is being decided tonight, but also the fate of the west. Declare a #NoFlyZone over Ukraine at the invitation of their sovereign govt. Disrupt Russias air ops to give the heroic Ukrainians a fair fight. It’s now, or later.
@AdamKinzinger: 2) History teaches that taking a stand is inevitable and gets more costly with time. We own the skies, Russia cannot hold a candle to our Air power. Do this. Putin is too dangerous to hope he is satisfied with “just Ukraine.”
Kinzinger is a whiny brat who wants to start WW3.
Russia doesn't seem to have much support for the Ukraine invasion and killing Ukranians from it's citizens, but once the US gets involved militarily, that will drastically change when it becomes Russia vs USA.
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Kinzinger jumped the shark on that one.
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I think he's pretty explicit in what he's suggesting.
Not really, he is suggesting a no fly zone, but that would 100% lead to war.
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As I was sitting in my hotel room (overlooking the Kremlin) in Moscow Thursday night, I wrote this but then decided not to post. After a few more discussions with Russian friends and colleagues, I offer the following to this discussion:
- from a Western perspective Putin is not rational however he has played a long game in his own country to make his actions look very rational to the Russian people.
- Most Russians don't want war, but there is strong evidence (to most Russians) that life in Russia is far better than life in the former Soviet republics outside of Russia. The huge amount of Ukranian migrant labor (about 1.5m people) in Russia is one point of concrete evidence of this.
- Part of Putin's game is claiming that Ukraine is a USA puppet state, so when Russia overtakes Ukraine (and they will) and installs their own puppet government they will have - by Putin's definition - "beaten the USA". Russian people buy into this argument.
- Russians are the 2nd most patriotic people I've ever met (after Americans, of course). They believe in a "big, strong" Russia.
- Most Russians know exactly how messed up their system and leadership is... just like Americans (to be fair this is not a Trump/Biden comment), and are pretty honest about it in private. It's still much better in Russia now than it was in the 90's, so all who remember the 90's tolerate the situation today because you can live, work, earn, travel, and even enjoy life.
As for the western actions:
- Sanctions don't work because money is like water, it finds a path and reaches its level. I have read the entire text of all of the sanctions (job requirement) and most of them are narrowly focused so they will not significantly alter the major avenues of trade and foreign exchange for Russia. They "look good" but are mostly a political act with little substance.
- As for military support I have no expertise, but refer to previous comments... Russians view Ukraine as a US proxy fighting with US weapons and US training. Victory would be a huge morale boost.
- Terminating SWIFT for Russia would be a huge negative. It seems the EU politicians are smarter than this. It would be very bad for the US. Now all commodities trades and Gas/Petro contracts are denominated in USD. If SWIFT is switched off, the only other functioning system for international currency movement is the Chinese system, and it requires settlement in Yuan. Russia is a top 5 producer of oil, gas, nickel, platinum, palladium, and coal. Settling Russian volumes in Yuan would create a critical mass that drives other trade to Yuan thereby fulfilling a massive Chinese objective. The US "superpower" status is largely contingent these days on the USD as the world's currency.
I'm not saying "let it happen"... nor that it is "fait accompli" but it's very close to that. The western world would do well to be several steps ahead by ensuring that NATO boundaries are not crossed, and that China doesn't get any motivation to do the same in Taiwan.
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Thanks for the insight.
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As I was sitting in my hotel room (overlooking the Kremlin) in Moscow Thursday night, I wrote this but then decided not to post. After a few more discussions with Russian friends and colleagues, I offer the following to this discussion:
- from a Western perspective Putin is not rational however he has played a long game in his own country to make his actions look very rational to the Russian people.
- Most Russians don't want war, but there is strong evidence (to most Russians) that life in Russia is far better than life in the former Soviet republics outside of Russia. The huge amount of Ukranian migrant labor (about 1.5m people) in Russia is one point of concrete evidence of this.
- Part of Putin's game is claiming that Ukraine is a USA puppet state, so when Russia overtakes Ukraine (and they will) and installs their own puppet government they will have - by Putin's definition - "beaten the USA". Russian people buy into this argument.
- Russians are the 2nd most patriotic people I've ever met (after Americans, of course). They believe in a "big, strong" Russia.
- Most Russians know exactly how messed up their system and leadership is... just like Americans (to be fair this is not a Trump/Biden comment), and are pretty honest about it in private. It's still much better in Russia now than it was in the 90's, so all who remember the 90's tolerate the situation today because you can live, work, earn, travel, and even enjoy life.
As for the western actions:
- Sanctions don't work because money is like water, it finds a path and reaches its level. I have read the entire text of all of the sanctions (job requirement) and most of them are narrowly focused so they will not significantly alter the major avenues of trade and foreign exchange for Russia. They "look good" but are mostly a political act with little substance.
- As for military support I have no expertise, but refer to previous comments... Russians view Ukraine as a US proxy fighting with US weapons and US training. Victory would be a huge morale boost.
- Terminating SWIFT for Russia would be a huge negative. It seems the EU politicians are smarter than this. It would be very bad for the US. Now all commodities trades and Gas/Petro contracts are denominated in USD. If SWIFT is switched off, the only other functioning system for international currency movement is the Chinese system, and it requires settlement in Yuan. Russia is a top 5 producer of oil, gas, nickel, platinum, palladium, and coal. Settling Russian volumes in Yuan would create a critical mass that drives other trade to Yuan thereby fulfilling a massive Chinese objective. The US "superpower" status is largely contingent these days on the USD as the world's currency.
I'm not saying "let it happen"... nor that it is "fait accompli" but it's very close to that. The western world would do well to be several steps ahead by ensuring that NATO boundaries are not crossed, and that China doesn't get any motivation to do the same in Taiwan.
Dang. Thank you. Love the geopolitical aspect, despite the human harm being done by putin.
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- Part of Putin's game is claiming that Ukraine is a USA puppet state, so when Russia overtakes Ukraine (and they will) and installs their own puppet government they will have - by Putin's definition - "beaten the USA". Russian people buy into this argument.
Hm. My only point of contention. The only country this action will hurt in the long term is Russia. There is no other outcome.
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Hm. My only point of contention. The only country this action will hurt in the long term is Russia. There is no other outcome.
I would add China. They picked wrong.
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Hm. My only point of contention. The only country this action will hurt in the long term is Russia. There is no other outcome.
100% agree with you, and seeing it already in terms of the short term impact on the economy, inflation, etc. No rational mind can find any way that this situation is better for any person or country. My point was only to explain the prevailing logic (rational or not) from the other side - for discussion.
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I would add China. They picked wrong.
Hah. China is an interesting one. They're essentially the new "cold war", though I'll dub it the "digital war" foe. The only country the US would REALLY have an aversion to fighting. Next time you buy me a few beers, I'll talk your ear off about it 8-)
Oh, and Putin Sucks.
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100% agree with you, and seeing it already in terms of the short term impact on the economy, inflation, etc. No rational mind can find any way that this situation is better for any person or country. My point was only to explain the prevailing logic (rational or not) from the other side - for discussion.
Fair, and appreciate the perspective!
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Hah. China is an interesting one. They're essentially the new "cold war", though I'll dub it the "digital war" foe. The only country the US would REALLY have an aversion to fighting. Next time you buy me a few beers, I'll talk you ear off about it 8-)
Oh, and Putin Sucks.
China is heavily dependent on the US economy. Xi is obsessed with Taiwan. In the long history of China, there is only one treaty they violated seriously and that was the overstep in Hong Kong. November is his re-election and the USA can make that tough. Biden shared intel with Jing and he went right to Putin. Blinken played them both and exposed that. The Olympics were a failure.
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As I was sitting in my hotel room (overlooking the Kremlin) in Moscow Thursday night, I wrote this but then decided not to post. After a few more discussions with Russian friends and colleagues, I offer the following to this discussion:
- from a Western perspective Putin is not rational however he has played a long game in his own country to make his actions look very rational to the Russian people.
- Most Russians don't want war, but there is strong evidence (to most Russians) that life in Russia is far better than life in the former Soviet republics outside of Russia. The huge amount of Ukranian migrant labor (about 1.5m people) in Russia is one point of concrete evidence of this.
- Part of Putin's game is claiming that Ukraine is a USA puppet state, so when Russia overtakes Ukraine (and they will) and installs their own puppet government they will have - by Putin's definition - "beaten the USA". Russian people buy into this argument.
- Russians are the 2nd most patriotic people I've ever met (after Americans, of course). They believe in a "big, strong" Russia.
- Most Russians know exactly how messed up their system and leadership is... just like Americans (to be fair this is not a Trump/Biden comment), and are pretty honest about it in private. It's still much better in Russia now than it was in the 90's, so all who remember the 90's tolerate the situation today because you can live, work, earn, travel, and even enjoy life.
As for the western actions:
- Sanctions don't work because money is like water, it finds a path and reaches its level. I have read the entire text of all of the sanctions (job requirement) and most of them are narrowly focused so they will not significantly alter the major avenues of trade and foreign exchange for Russia. They "look good" but are mostly a political act with little substance.
- As for military support I have no expertise, but refer to previous comments... Russians view Ukraine as a US proxy fighting with US weapons and US training. Victory would be a huge morale boost.
- Terminating SWIFT for Russia would be a huge negative. It seems the EU politicians are smarter than this. It would be very bad for the US. Now all commodities trades and Gas/Petro contracts are denominated in USD. If SWIFT is switched off, the only other functioning system for international currency movement is the Chinese system, and it requires settlement in Yuan. Russia is a top 5 producer of oil, gas, nickel, platinum, palladium, and coal. Settling Russian volumes in Yuan would create a critical mass that drives other trade to Yuan thereby fulfilling a massive Chinese objective. The US "superpower" status is largely contingent these days on the USD as the world's currency.
I'm not saying "let it happen"... nor that it is "fait accompli" but it's very close to that. The western world would do well to be several steps ahead by ensuring that NATO boundaries are not crossed, and that China doesn't get any motivation to do the same in Taiwan.
I appreciate the insight here regarding the Russian population. As far as Putin is concerned I don't think anyone disagrees with your synopsis. He wrote a manifesto in July stating exactly what he wants to do. He doesn't distinguish between Ukraine being a "proxy state of the USA" or the former Soviet Bloc countries. And from a proximity and practical standpoint he will do everything in his power for them to be part of Russia and set-up a puppet there like in Belarus. We've known this for 3 administrations.
Now, as far as the inner workings of Ukraine I honestly have no idea. I will take you at your word about Russian nationalism and where they desire to live. On the flipside I'm pretty certain the Poles, Hungarians, and other former bloc or NATO country citizens have a less than zero interest in moving to Putin's Russia.
The guy threatened Finland and Sweden today. He directly threatened us as well. He has a two front piggy bank with his oil and closer relationship to Xi and the Chinese government. It's a complete s-show and the question is, assuming his economic power isn't severely crippled, why wouldn't he directly threaten the Baltics or former Soviet Bloc/NATO countries? He's a fking asshat tyrant, and has stated repeatedly what he intends to do. He couldn't give a flying F about his own people. I think we must have the mindset that he isn't fearful of a NATO/USA response if he attacks a NATO country.
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As I was sitting in my hotel room (overlooking the Kremlin) in Moscow Thursday night, I wrote this but then decided not to post. After a few more discussions with Russian friends and colleagues, I offer the following to this discussion:
- from a Western perspective Putin is not rational however he has played a long game in his own country to make his actions look very rational to the Russian people.
- Most Russians don't want war, but there is strong evidence (to most Russians) that life in Russia is far better than life in the former Soviet republics outside of Russia. The huge amount of Ukranian migrant labor (about 1.5m people) in Russia is one point of concrete evidence of this.
- Part of Putin's game is claiming that Ukraine is a USA puppet state, so when Russia overtakes Ukraine (and they will) and installs their own puppet government they will have - by Putin's definition - "beaten the USA". Russian people buy into this argument.
- Russians are the 2nd most patriotic people I've ever met (after Americans, of course). They believe in a "big, strong" Russia.
- Most Russians know exactly how messed up their system and leadership is... just like Americans (to be fair this is not a Trump/Biden comment), and are pretty honest about it in private. It's still much better in Russia now than it was in the 90's, so all who remember the 90's tolerate the situation today because you can live, work, earn, travel, and even enjoy life.
As for the western actions:
- Sanctions don't work because money is like water, it finds a path and reaches its level. I have read the entire text of all of the sanctions (job requirement) and most of them are narrowly focused so they will not significantly alter the major avenues of trade and foreign exchange for Russia. They "look good" but are mostly a political act with little substance.
- As for military support I have no expertise, but refer to previous comments... Russians view Ukraine as a US proxy fighting with US weapons and US training. Victory would be a huge morale boost.
- Terminating SWIFT for Russia would be a huge negative. It seems the EU politicians are smarter than this. It would be very bad for the US. Now all commodities trades and Gas/Petro contracts are denominated in USD. If SWIFT is switched off, the only other functioning system for international currency movement is the Chinese system, and it requires settlement in Yuan. Russia is a top 5 producer of oil, gas, nickel, platinum, palladium, and coal. Settling Russian volumes in Yuan would create a critical mass that drives other trade to Yuan thereby fulfilling a massive Chinese objective. The US "superpower" status is largely contingent these days on the USD as the world's currency.
I'm not saying "let it happen"... nor that it is "fait accompli" but it's very close to that. The western world would do well to be several steps ahead by ensuring that NATO boundaries are not crossed, and that China doesn't get any motivation to do the same in Taiwan.
Brother Warrior:
Fascinating take and I appreciate the time you took to outline your thoughts. Your perspectives do what we too often don’t do in this country — see things from the other side.
My own perspective on the East changed dramatically when my wife and I adopted children from Belarus and Ukraine in the late 1990s. We saw things and heard things that left an incredibly lasting vision about the old Soviet Union as well as the people of Ukraine and Belarus. You’re right about one thing: the people love Mother Russia, or Ukraine, but they don’t always like what’s happening. The mistake many of us make is to confuse patriotism with government support.
We have a very interesting problem in Ukraine. The Russians view Ukraine, likely, the way we view Great Britain, France or Germany. The idea of a socialistic, Russian-oriented government in any of these countries would be more than we could tolerate. Likewise, a Ukraine oriented to the west is a burr in Mr. Putin’s saddle.
To those of you who think the Russian action is unprecedented, look at what we did in Cuba when Castro pledged alignment with the Soviet Union. The difference: the Russians are doing a better job than we did.
The problem we have now, as I have said before, is how far do we go for Ukraine. Is Mr. Biden willing to risk war over a country well within the old Russian sphere of influence. I doubt it. Is he willing to risk true sanctions that, as Brother Warrior points out, would effectively drive the Russians into the hands of the Chinese and threaten many aspects of our economy — I doubt that as well.
Sadly, I think the only answer is to back off, let Putin have Ukraine and hope it doesn’t spill to Poland, where it will mean war.
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Ukrainians are fighting their all for their country.
Sickening the destruction and hardship on the people.
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I appreciate the insight here regarding the Russian population. As far as Putin is concerned I don't think anyone disagrees with your synopsis. He wrote a manifesto in July stating exactly what he wants to do. He doesn't distinguish between Ukraine being a "proxy state of the USA" or the former Soviet Bloc countries. And from a proximity and practical standpoint he will do everything in his power for them to be part of Russia and set-up a puppet there like in Belarus. We've known this for 3 administrations.
Now, as far as the inner workings of Ukraine I honestly have no idea. I will take you at your word about Russian nationalism and where they desire to live. On the flipside I'm pretty certain the Poles, Hungarians, and other former bloc or NATO country citizens have a less than zero interest in moving to Putin's Russia.
The guy threatened Finland and Sweden today. He directly threatened us as well. He has a two front piggy bank with his oil and closer relationship to Xi and the Chinese government. It's a complete s-show and the question is, assuming his economic power isn't severely crippled, why wouldn't he directly threaten the Baltics or former Soviet Bloc/NATO countries? He's a fking asshat tyrant, and has stated repeatedly what he intends to do. He couldn't give a flying F about his own people. I think we must have the mindset that he isn't fearful of a NATO/USA response if he attacks a NATO country.
Brother Muggsy:
Appreciate your comments. I was offering perspective, not opinion. If I decide to burden this board at some point with my opinion, it probably won't be too different to yours.
One small opinion I will share, is that the 3 administrations you refer to have been the 3 weakest, least strategic, and most disjointed foreign policy administrations in my (not short) lifetime. Therein lies a big part of the problem.
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Brother Muggsy:
Appreciate your comments. I was offering perspective, not opinion. If I decide to burden this board at some point with my opinion, it probably won't be too different to yours.
One small opinion I will share, is that the 3 administrations you refer to have been the 3 weakest, least strategic, and most disjointed foreign policy administrations in my (not short) lifetime. Therein lies a big part of the problem.
I agree partly with that last statement. Foreign policy this century has been a borderline disaster but we’ve been miscalculating for a lot longer than that
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I read that putin is spending $20 billion/day to overtake Ukraine. We need to get the world to boycott everything Russian, especially OIL. We should be re opening all of our petroleum sources. They say if Ukraine can put in the 4 corner stall, putin goes broke!! I hope this is true.
WarriorFan-thanks and Godspeed at ya
Ok, from what I’ve been reading and hearing, putin is actually going “nuts”. He’s lost some marbles. They mean this in a very real sense, not just what we would perceive as the obvious. Far from being in your situation and having your perspective MF, but the Ukraine appears to have a pretty strong sense of “patriotism” themselves. True David vs Goliath hoping David extends his streak to 2
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As I was sitting in my hotel room (overlooking the Kremlin) in Moscow Thursday night, I wrote this but then decided not to post. After a few more discussions with Russian friends and colleagues, I offer the following to this discussion:
- from a Western perspective Putin is not rational however he has played a long game in his own country to make his actions look very rational to the Russian people.
- Most Russians don't want war, but there is strong evidence (to most Russians) that life in Russia is far better than life in the former Soviet republics outside of Russia. The huge amount of Ukranian migrant labor (about 1.5m people) in Russia is one point of concrete evidence of this.
- Part of Putin's game is claiming that Ukraine is a USA puppet state, so when Russia overtakes Ukraine (and they will) and installs their own puppet government they will have - by Putin's definition - "beaten the USA". Russian people buy into this argument.
- Russians are the 2nd most patriotic people I've ever met (after Americans, of course). They believe in a "big, strong" Russia.
- Most Russians know exactly how messed up their system and leadership is... just like Americans (to be fair this is not a Trump/Biden comment), and are pretty honest about it in private. It's still much better in Russia now than it was in the 90's, so all who remember the 90's tolerate the situation today because you can live, work, earn, travel, and even enjoy life.
As for the western actions:
- Sanctions don't work because money is like water, it finds a path and reaches its level. I have read the entire text of all of the sanctions (job requirement) and most of them are narrowly focused so they will not significantly alter the major avenues of trade and foreign exchange for Russia. They "look good" but are mostly a political act with little substance.
- As for military support I have no expertise, but refer to previous comments... Russians view Ukraine as a US proxy fighting with US weapons and US training. Victory would be a huge morale boost.
- Terminating SWIFT for Russia would be a huge negative. It seems the EU politicians are smarter than this. It would be very bad for the US. Now all commodities trades and Gas/Petro contracts are denominated in USD. If SWIFT is switched off, the only other functioning system for international currency movement is the Chinese system, and it requires settlement in Yuan. Russia is a top 5 producer of oil, gas, nickel, platinum, palladium, and coal. Settling Russian volumes in Yuan would create a critical mass that drives other trade to Yuan thereby fulfilling a massive Chinese objective. The US "superpower" status is largely contingent these days on the USD as the world's currency.
I'm not saying "let it happen"... nor that it is "fait accompli" but it's very close to that. The western world would do well to be several steps ahead by ensuring that NATO boundaries are not crossed, and that China doesn't get any motivation to do the same in Taiwan.
Thanks for your insight. I agree with most of what you said, but strongly disagree with your SWIFT viewpoint. Would it push Russia closer to China? Sure, but the rest of the world uses SWIFT for a reason, and Russia is only the world's 11th largest economy. Other countries around the world wouldn't abandon SWIFT because of Russia's absence. I'm going to go off on a tangent here... China's Yuan is as big of a mess as our dollar. The middle class in China is financially overleveraged wit their domestic real estate purchasing as a means for retirement investment. When the reality of what has happened with that greater fool ponzi scheme makes its way to the people and they understand that their financial investments are worth nothing... China will have a huge problem. Not to mention the one child population control of the previous few decades is finally reaping what was sown. The gender inequity in the Chinese population is staggering. There are millions of young males who will have zero opportunity to have a family in China. So in the coming years, you're going to have a lot of disaffected Chinese males that will be realizing that the decisions the government has made has drastically altered their ability to have a positive future. I have no idea what that will mean for China, but large groups of unhappy males in a society with low prospects of a positive future does not a stable government make.
Gender imbalance in China
China belongs to the countries with a very imbalanced sex ratio at birth. In 2020, the sex ratio in the population aging from 0 to 4 years old ranged at around 111 males to 100 females. The high gender inequality can be attributed to the traditional preference for male children in the Chinese society. Although gender identification before birth is not legally allowed in China, selective abortions due to gender preference still exist in many regions of China.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/251102/sex-ratio-in-china/
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I read that putin is spending $20 billion/day to overtake Ukraine. We need to get the world to boycott everything Russian, especially OIL. We should be re opening all of our petroleum sources. They say if Ukraine can put in the 4 corner stall, putin goes broke!! I hope this is true.
WarriorFan-thanks and Godspeed at ya
Ok, from what I’ve been reading and hearing, putin is actually going “nuts”. He’s lost some marbles. They mean this in a very real sense, not just what we would perceive as the obvious. Far from being in your situation and having your perspective MF, but the Ukraine appears to have a pretty strong sense of “patriotism” themselves. True David vs Goliath hoping David extends his streak to 2
That is basically what we are doing, and I absolutely agree we should be removing them from international economy. BUT having said that, there needs to be a clearly defined path for reentry. Russia needs a carrot and a way to save face at home and abroad. Looking weak isn't what Russia will tolerate... at least Mr. Putin. Personally, what I'd be the most happy with is a 'new' United Nations charter. What we're currently doing doesn't work. The permanent security council holds far too much power. Any of China, France, Russia, UK, and USA can basically do what they want on the world stage without any consequences from the UN. Largely, this is what makes the UN so toothless.
I've also heard the same about Mr. Putin's mental health implied. But, be cautious, that could easily be Western media or State department disinformation. I think Mr. Putin made a tremendous miscalculation with this invasion, and it will end up costing him everything. Russia's allies (except China and Belarus) have largely denounced the invasion, and left Russia on it's own. Unfortunately, this does make Russia extremely dangerous. Less options makes for a less stable nuclear power.
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Mostly, the way I've been following the conflict and lead up to the conflict is via this live thread on reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/live/18hnzysb1elcs
Remember, not all information posted is vetted or verified. Essentially, this is a curated twitter feed. Additionally, there is a massive anti-Russian bias.
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Brother Muggsy:
Appreciate your comments. I was offering perspective, not opinion. If I decide to burden this board at some point with my opinion, it probably won't be too different to yours.
One small opinion I will share, is that the 3 administrations you refer to have been the 3 weakest, least strategic, and most disjointed foreign policy administrations in my (not short) lifetime. Therein lies a big part of the problem.
Your comments are greatly appreciated Brother WF. You're not a burden at all.. The horror of this is absolutely gut-wrenching to hear or watch.
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I read that putin is spending $20 billion/day to overtake Ukraine. We need to get the world to boycott everything Russian, especially OIL. We should be re opening all of our petroleum sources. They say if Ukraine can put in the 4 corner stall, putin goes broke!! I hope this is true.
This is purely a hypothetical/philosophical question.
If we believe Russia is committed to taking Ukraine no matter what. Is it better in terms of loss of life, to not stall?
If things start to get dicey financial wise, or they are being significantly stalled, Russia can still release a true shock and awe. Bomb Ukraine into oblivion, in a manner more similar to what we did in Iraq/Baghdad.
If we believe Russia is committed, the result of a stall is massive loss of civilian life, and damage to civilian infrastructure.
There is kind of a bad, and worse option at that point.
What we would have to hope is that Russia is not committed, and if things stalled they just say "we made our point."
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Brother Warrior:
Fascinating take and I appreciate the time you took to outline your thoughts. Your perspectives do what we too often don’t do in this country — see things from the other side.
My own perspective on the East changed dramatically when my wife and I adopted children from Belarus and Ukraine in the late 1990s. We saw things and heard things that left an incredibly lasting vision about the old Soviet Union as well as the people of Ukraine and Belarus. You’re right about one thing: the people love Mother Russia, or Ukraine, but they don’t always like what’s happening. The mistake many of us make is to confuse patriotism with government support.
We have a very interesting problem in Ukraine. The Russians view Ukraine, likely, the way we view Great Britain, France or Germany. The idea of a socialistic, Russian-oriented government in any of these countries would be more than we could tolerate. Likewise, a Ukraine oriented to the west is a burr in Mr. Putin’s saddle.
To those of you who think the Russian action is unprecedented, look at what we did in Cuba when Castro pledged alignment with the Soviet Union. The difference: the Russians are doing a better job than we did.
The problem we have now, as I have said before, is how far do we go for Ukraine. Is Mr. Biden willing to risk war over a country well within the old Russian sphere of influence. I doubt it. Is he willing to risk true sanctions that, as Brother Warrior points out, would effectively drive the Russians into the hands of the Chinese and threaten many aspects of our economy — I doubt that as well.
Sadly, I think the only answer is to back off, let Putin have Ukraine and hope it doesn’t spill to Poland, where it will mean war.
Dgies, I'm also one that does my best to try to look at things from the lens of other people/cultures, even though it is often difficult.
I too, thought about Cuba, but was doing a bit of a mental extension to what if Russia had remained as much of a world power as us, and had been successful in setting up Socialist regimes in Central America. For this thought experiment, imagine Nicaragua joining a socialist block with Russia, and being armed by Russia...then after a few yearsHonduras joins that block...then Belize. At that point, the US adamantly rejects any further Central American nations joining the socialist block. Yet Guatemala then joins.
The last straw was Mexico. We vehemently oppose Mexico joining the Block. Then, the people overthrow the government and install a Socialist- pro Russia government. They make clear they are doing everything they can to join the Socialist Block, which would put Russia on our border.
The part that gets hard with such thought experiments, is what would we do as a nation at that point. I honestly don't know.
I abhor war in all regards, and am appalled by what is going on in Ukraine, but part of me can't help recognize a lot of this stems from the failings of Man, and our constant need to divide. To set up camps fighting for power. Where there is always one winner, and one loser, and one perceived good, and perceived evil.
Hopefully this is just a very ugly war, in a much longer kerfuffle. But I can't help but fear that this one may be different, and take the world down a much darker path and a new bloody dark-age.
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This is purely a hypothetical/philosophical question.
If we believe Russia is committed to taking Ukraine no matter what. Is it better in terms of loss of life, to not stall?
If things start to get dicey financial wise, or they are being significantly stalled, Russia can still release a true shock and awe. Bomb Ukraine into oblivion, in a manner more similar to what we did in Iraq/Baghdad.
If we believe Russia is committed, the result of a stall is massive loss of civilian life, and damage to civilian infrastructure.
There is kind of a bad, and worse option at that point.
What we would have to hope is that Russia is not committed, and if things stalled they just say "we made our point."
This is the catch 22 that Russia has found themselves in. They can't just turn Ukrainian cities to rubble. That would infuriate their populace as many Russian and Ukrainians are family or have family in either country. If that was something Russia was willing to do, they'd have started the campaign that way. At this point, it would seem that Russia has blocked twitter and FB instant messenger in their country. They're trying to control the information narrative because things are not going well for them. I honestly think Putin didn't really think this through, and thought that the Ukrainian military would have just surrendered wholesale and install a new government to prevent death and destruction. It hasn't gone that way, so the disinformation and censorship has to get kicked up a notch back home.
While eventually the country may fall simply due to the immense difference in military power, Russia has not exactly shown itself to be competent in this invasion.
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Dgies, I'm also one that does my best to try to look at things from the lens of other people/cultures, even though it is often difficult.
I too, thought about Cuba, but was doing a bit of a mental extension to what if Russia had remained as much of a world power as us, and had been successful in setting up Socialist regimes in Central America. For this thought experiment, imagine Nicaragua joining a socialist block with Russia, and being armed by Russia...then after a few yearsHonduras joins that block...then Belize. At that point, the US adamantly rejects any further Central American nations joining the socialist block. Yet Guatemala then joins.
The last straw was Mexico. We vehemently oppose Mexico joining the Block. Then, the people overthrow the government and install a Socialist- pro Russia government. They make clear they are doing everything they can to join the Socialist Block, which would put Russia on our border.
The part that gets hard with such thought experiments, is what would we do as a nation at that point. I honestly don't know.
I abhor war in all regards, and am appalled by what is going on in Ukraine, but part of me can't help recognize a lot of this stems from the failings of Man, and our constant need to divide. To set up camps fighting for power. Where there is always one winner, and one loser, and one perceived good, and perceived evil.
Hopefully this is just a very ugly war, in a much longer kerfuffle. But I can't help but fear that this one may be different, and take the world down a much darker path and a new bloody dark-age.
And to be fair, we did exactly what the USSR did with Cuba. We put nukes in Turkey in the late 50s before the USSR even considered placing nukes in Cuba. The US response to the missile crisis in Cuba was quite hypocritical, all things considered. During the cold war, the US's actions in South and Central America was as imperialistic as the Soviet's in Eastern Europe. You older guys probably remember the constant string of coups and military interventions in South America during the cold war.
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And to be fair, we did exactly what the USSR did with Cuba. We put nukes in Turkey in the late 50s before the USSR even considered placing nukes in Cuba. The US response to the missile crisis in Cuba was quite hypocritical, all things considered. During the cold war, the US's actions in South and Central America was as imperialistic as the Soviet's in Eastern Europe. You older guys probably remember the constant string of coups and military interventions in South America during the cold war.
But USA are the good guys!
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@NatashaBertrand: Breaking: the leaders of the European Commission, France, Germany, Italy, the United Kingdom, Canada, and the United States announce that selected Russian banks will be removed from SWIFT, restrictions to be imposed on Russian Central Bank
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Zelenskyy stated earlier today that consensus has been reached to remove *some Russian banks* from SWIFT. It's being more widely reported now as a reality instead of just Zelenskyy saying it
https://www.axios.com/eu-expels-russia-swift-network-728618c1-2d09-4c3d-a325-551635adfbec.html
This will put a lot of pressure on Putin's regime to either pull out or further escalate. (maybe not, since it's only some banks). In addition to this, they're freezing the Russian Central Bank's assets. The Central Bank was working to prop up their stock market, gonna be a bloody Monday for them.
Edit:same as Pakuni
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Zelenskyy stated earlier today that consensus has been reached to remove *some Russian banks* from SWIFT. It's being more widely reported now as a reality instead of just Zelenskyy saying it
https://www.axios.com/eu-expels-russia-swift-network-728618c1-2d09-4c3d-a325-551635adfbec.html
This will put a lot of pressure on Putin's regime to either pull out or further escalate. (maybe not, since it's only some banks). In addition to this, they're freezing the Russian Central Bank's assets. The Central Bank was working to prop up their stock market, gonna be a bloody Monday for them.
Edit:same as Pakuni
Will be interesting to see what happens if/when there's a run on the banks Mondsy morning in Russia.
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This is interesting if true
https://mobile.twitter.com/RihoTerras/status/1497537193346220038?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497537196282331137%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es2_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailykos.com%2Fstory%2F2022%2F2%2F26%2F2082530%2F-The-Fall-of-Vladimir-Putin
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Puti is done.
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Will be interesting to see what happens if/when there's a run on the banks Mondsy morning in Russia.
I think a lot of people in the US are about to see what happens when you're currency turns to toilet paper... and the true power of international sanctions.
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Do you need a tow?
Ukrainian man offers to tow enemy tank back to Russia after it runs out of fuel
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-tank-fuel-russia-kyiv-b2024003.html
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I'm surprised Putin hasn't taken out their internet. It's possible he thought this could be done without carpet bombing and major destruction. I'm concerned he has lunatic impulses but at this juncture it appears things are not going as planned for the Russians
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I'm surprised Putin hasn't taken out their internet. It's possible he thought this could be done without carpet bombing and major destruction. I'm concerned he has lunatic impulses but at this juncture it appears things are not going as planned for the Russians
That's not how that works. But there have been cyber attacks that have slowed the internet in places.
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This is interesting if true
https://mobile.twitter.com/RihoTerras/status/1497537193346220038?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1497537196282331137%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es2_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailykos.com%2Fstory%2F2022%2F2%2F26%2F2082530%2F-The-Fall-of-Vladimir-Putin
I'd be shocked if this was true. Seems hard to believe that Iran, and North Korea, can produce their own arms, but that Russia cannot without imports from Finland.
Also, although I don't think this is going as well as Russia planned. I don't think they expected this to be over in 4-days. It took the US 3-weeks to take Baghdad, and that was with massive bombing campaigns (1000+ sorties a day).
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Some very good discussions in here. One thing I wondered about was Purim’s timing related to Covid. Reading some tweets from this past week about camps of Russian soldiers being ravaged by Covid with literally no where to go, and becoming disillusioned and some going AWOL and selling as much of their equipment as they can.
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I'm surprised Putin hasn't taken out their internet. It's possible he thought this could be done without carpet bombing and major destruction. I'm concerned he has lunatic impulses but at this juncture it appears things are not going as planned for the Russians
I saw discussed last night Russians could have taken down but their own army needs.
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I'd be shocked if this was true. Seems hard to believe that Iran, and North Korea, can produce their own arms, but that Russia cannot without imports from Finland.
Also, although I don't think this is going as well as Russia planned. I don't think they expected this to be over in 4-days. It took the US 3-weeks to take Baghdad, and that was with massive bombing campaigns (1000+ sorties a day).
I may have misread, but said they couldn't make because of raw materials. Which is pretty much standard in the post-Covid world. I'm in metals and we're not sanctioned and lead tunes are extended all around. I just got quoted 44-46 weeks ARO for 500 lbs of a common but special stainless steel.
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I may have misread, but said they couldn't make because of raw materials. Which is pretty much standard in the post-Covid world. I'm in metals and we're not sanctioned and lead tunes are extended all around. I just got quoted 44-46 weeks ARO for 500 lbs of a common but special stainless steel.
I believe that is what it said. But Russia is raw material rich, especially things like metals.
The only thing I could think of holding back the weaponry would be technical components, but they'd just get them from China.
I mean it is possible that they are indeed strapped for materials, but ever since the WMD days, I'm skeptical of media reports during war time.
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Oh, only about 70 or so people standing in line to use an ATM today in Russia.
I imagine this is being repeated across the country today.
https://twitter.com/jason_corcoran/status/1497889119917297665
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Some interesting facts as we approach a critical Monday.
My bank (a non-sanctioned foreign bank with full operating license in Russia - and a very good one) is buying Dollars for 89.90 and buying Rubles for 150.01.
The SWIFT thing is happening, but the list of banks is not clear. Probably limited to already sanctioned banks.
Russia has threatened nuclear engagement by taking their nuclear forces to the highest level of alert.
Ukraine, Belarus and Russia have agreed to a negotiation session on the Ukraine/Belarus border.
Russia has threatened seizure of foreign owned bank accounts and assets within Russia, specifically targeting nationals of certain countries. They can do this because all of this information exists in bank data and land/property registry.
My money is safely out for now and my Chase credit card worked today at our favorite coffee shop.
Tomorrow is another day.
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My money is safely out for now and my Chase credit card worked today at our favorite coffee shop.
Well that's key! Stay safe.
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Some interesting facts as we approach a critical Monday.
My bank (a non-sanctioned foreign bank with full operating license in Russia - and a very good one) is buying Dollars for 89.90 and buying Rubles for 150.01.
The SWIFT thing is happening, but the list of banks is not clear. Probably limited to already sanctioned banks.
Russia has threatened nuclear engagement by taking their nuclear forces to the highest level of alert.
Ukraine, Belarus and Russia have agreed to a negotiation session on the Ukraine/Belarus border.
Russia has threatened seizure of foreign owned bank accounts and assets within Russia, specifically targeting nationals of certain countries. They can do this because all of this information exists in bank data and land/property registry.
My money is safely out for now and my Chase credit card worked today at our favorite coffee shop.
Tomorrow is another day.
Is your money converted to USD? Sorry for your stress.
The recent SWIFT thing and this meeting could be a very good step. The Italian president stepped up pressure on Germany by most accounts. It's also worth noting that if there's one country on the planet that should help Ukraine it's Germany.
The big fear is this lunatic/scumbag/assfk. If things continue to go badly for him he could snap and do something horrific. We know what he has done in the past.
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Some interesting facts as we approach a critical Monday.
My bank (a non-sanctioned foreign bank with full operating license in Russia - and a very good one) is buying Dollars for 89.90 and buying Rubles for 150.01.
The SWIFT thing is happening, but the list of banks is not clear. Probably limited to already sanctioned banks.
Russia has threatened nuclear engagement by taking their nuclear forces to the highest level of alert.
Ukraine, Belarus and Russia have agreed to a negotiation session on the Ukraine/Belarus border.
Russia has threatened seizure of foreign owned bank accounts and assets within Russia, specifically targeting nationals of certain countries. They can do this because all of this information exists in bank data and land/property registry.
My money is safely out for now and my Chase credit card worked today at our favorite coffee shop.
Tomorrow is another day.
https://twitter.com/JakeCordell/status/1497953192163827716?cxt=HHwWiICz0byf5skpAAAA
Yeah, your currency assessment tracks.
I'm going to say that the price of bitcoin could get VERY interesting tomorrow, and I'll leave it at that.
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Note: These are the random thoughts of a business-naive individual.
I can't help but wonder about the long-term impacts of booting Russia from SWIFT.
Much of Western power is based on their overwhelmingly dominant financial institutions. The federal reserve (US debt) and The European Central Bank, facilitate development by buying up sovereign debt/securities for NATO/EU nations. That allows these nations to operate at pretty extreme debt/GDP ratios, and the currencies are stabilized by the requirement of trading in US$ or Euros. SWIFT being centralized in Brussels, actually reinforces this dominance.
The financial institution dominance provides the West with extreme power, as their sanctions are often more crippling than actual war.
If Russia is fully booted from SWIFT, China's opposing system, or Crypto versions (Ripple was attacked when it started to become even a very poorly used alternative). Other Eastern nations with high material trading (oil, metals), may shift to the opposing systems to shield themselves from possible sanctions.
The result of such a shift, would dramatically weaken the strength of Western finance, and long-term even worse, the supremacy of the US$ and Euro.
China right now holds a lot of cards. I fear the real end result of all of this is a stronger China, which means a weaker West.
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Some interesting facts as we approach a critical Monday.
My bank (a non-sanctioned foreign bank with full operating license in Russia - and a very good one) is buying Dollars for 89.90 and buying Rubles for 150.01.
The SWIFT thing is happening, but the list of banks is not clear. Probably limited to already sanctioned banks.
Russia has threatened nuclear engagement by taking their nuclear forces to the highest level of alert.
Ukraine, Belarus and Russia have agreed to a negotiation session on the Ukraine/Belarus border.
Russia has threatened seizure of foreign owned bank accounts and assets within Russia, specifically targeting nationals of certain countries. They can do this because all of this information exists in bank data and land/property registry.
My money is safely out for now and my Chase credit card worked today at our favorite coffee shop.
Tomorrow is another day.
How long are you there for? Worried about the ability to leave?
Stay safe!
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Note: These are the random thoughts of a business-naive individual.
I can't help but wonder about the long-term impacts of booting Russia from SWIFT.
Much of Western power is based on their overwhelmingly dominant financial institutions. The federal reserve (US debt) and The European Central Bank, facilitate development by buying up sovereign debt/securities for NATO/EU nations. That allows these nations to operate at pretty extreme debt/GDP ratios, and the currencies are stabilized by the requirement of trading in US$ or Euros. SWIFT being centralized in Brussels, actually reinforces this dominance.
The financial institution dominance provides the West with extreme power, as their sanctions are often more crippling than actual war.
If Russia is fully booted from SWIFT, China's opposing system, or Crypto versions (Ripple was attacked when it started to become even a very poorly used alternative). Other Eastern nations with high material trading (oil, metals), may shift to the opposing systems to shield themselves from possible sanctions.
The result of such a shift, would dramatically weaken the strength of Western finance, and long-term even worse, the supremacy of the US$ and Euro.
China right now holds a lot of cards. I fear the real end result of all of this is a stronger China, which means a weaker West.
Ripple is a bad crypto because it is too centralized. I would never buy it, nor use it.
I addressed Russia being removed from SWIFT earlier, but I will add that on Monday the ruble will turn to toilet paper. Russian bonds on the global market are listed as junk. I don't think a lot of Americans really know what this means for Russia's financial system. They can't just magically move all of their transactions to China's system overnight. In the interim, the consequences of being removed from SWIFT and having no credit available will be nearly as devastating as a nuclear attack. Make no mistake, the actions taken yesterday could send Russia over a financial cliff, with ramifications that will impact the country for years. Even if everything is resolved in the next few days and there is a treaty or ceasefire, the lack of FAITH in the Russian financial markets will remain.
Again, I think that there is a major underestimation of what these financial sanctions will do internationally. I also believe that this is why Putin is getting desperate... and that really concerns me.
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Sputnik & RT to be banned in the EU. It'll be interesting to see how this impacts other pervasive misinformation spread by russia over the past few years on other topics.
Russian-owned, Russian-controlled, and Russian-registered aircraft are no longer allowed in the EU airspace.
Source - President of the EU Commission https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1497973334847414278
These moves seem to be two-pronged: Frustrate the RU oligarchs, and cause social unrest amongst the masses in Russia. Smart move, make the dictator focus on mounting problems at home.
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Jake Cordell
@JakeCordell
Russia’s VTB bank - the country’s second largest which is now under heavy sectioned - will raise interest rates for new mortgages by FOUR percentage points.
New mortgages will have an interest rate of 15.3%.
10:33 AM · Feb 27, 2022·Twitter for iPhone
Also, BP is selling its stake in Rosneft... It owns 20%.
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Some interesting facts as we approach a critical Monday.
My bank (a non-sanctioned foreign bank with full operating license in Russia - and a very good one) is buying Dollars for 89.90 and buying Rubles for 150.01.
The SWIFT thing is happening, but the list of banks is not clear. Probably limited to already sanctioned banks.
Russia has threatened nuclear engagement by taking their nuclear forces to the highest level of alert.
Ukraine, Belarus and Russia have agreed to a negotiation session on the Ukraine/Belarus border.
Russia has threatened seizure of foreign owned bank accounts and assets within Russia, specifically targeting nationals of certain countries. They can do this because all of this information exists in bank data and land/property registry.
My money is safely out for now and my Chase credit card worked today at our favorite coffee shop.
Tomorrow is another day.
171 to 1 now.
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Note: These are the random thoughts of a business-naive individual.
I can't help but wonder about the long-term impacts of booting Russia from SWIFT.
Much of Western power is based on their overwhelmingly dominant financial institutions. The federal reserve (US debt) and The European Central Bank, facilitate development by buying up sovereign debt/securities for NATO/EU nations. That allows these nations to operate at pretty extreme debt/GDP ratios, and the currencies are stabilized by the requirement of trading in US$ or Euros. SWIFT being centralized in Brussels, actually reinforces this dominance.
The financial institution dominance provides the West with extreme power, as their sanctions are often more crippling than actual war.
If Russia is fully booted from SWIFT, China's opposing system, or Crypto versions (Ripple was attacked when it started to become even a very poorly used alternative). Other Eastern nations with high material trading (oil, metals), may shift to the opposing systems to shield themselves from possible sanctions.
The result of such a shift, would dramatically weaken the strength of Western finance, and long-term even worse, the supremacy of the US$ and Euro.
China right now holds a lot of cards. I fear the real end result of all of this is a stronger China, which means a weaker West.
It also means China holds a lot more Russian junk.
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In the meantime, let's check in on CPAC ...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMnuvEaXsAEfEUg?format=jpg&name=900x900
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I keep seeing a figure that Russia is spending $20bil a day for this invasion and they have $350 bil in reserve so they will be tapped out in anotherr 11 days.
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Read lots of info on their dismal supply lines.
The common threads summary,
* Train tracks - Russian still using old Soviet tracks that matches no one else. Basically unloading supplies at Ukraine border.
* the country is so corrupt, that the military capabilities have been overstated. Basically the lies got bigger the higher up the command chain and western military analysis were based on what the Russian top brass was saying. Ukraine invasion is exposing all.
* Assumed Russian army would operate like US army. Not even close.
* Over reliance on conscripts versus professional army. The conscripts have no quarrel with Ukraine and don't really want to fight.
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https://twitter.com/VaushV/status/1498015280437465096?t=1oDYIt3dusfd2nm4U-TFmQ&s=19
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In the meantime, let's check in on CPAC ...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMnuvEaXsAEfEUg?format=jpg&name=900x900
PM this to Muggsy? :)
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In the meantime, let's check in on CPAC ...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMnuvEaXsAEfEUg?format=jpg&name=900x900
Who’d have thought COAC and the Squad/DSA would align. DSA demanding the US withdraw from NATO, stating “DSA reaffirms our call for the US to withdraw from NATO and to end the imperialist expansionism that set the stage for this conflict.”
The extremists are more alike then they want to admit.
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Who’d have thought COAC and the Squad/DSA would align. DSA demanding the US withdraw from NATO, stating “DSA reaffirms our call for the US to withdraw from NATO and to end the imperialist expansionism that set the stage for this conflict.”
The extremists are more alike then they want to admit.
I'm no fan of the DSA, but you're being quite misleading here by omitting a large chunk of their statement, which begins ...
"The Democratic Socialists of America condemns Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and demands immediate diplomacy and de-escalation to resolve this crisis."
And later:
"This extreme and asymmetrical escalation is an illegal act under the United Nations Charter and severely threatens the livelihoods and well-being of working-class peoples in Ukraine, Russia, and across the region. We urge an immediate ceasefire and the total withdrawal of Russian forces from Ukraine."
That hardly aligns with the praise Putin has received at CPAC and elsewhere in the right wing sphere.
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Ukraine soldier message to Russian troops.
https://twitter.com/englishukraine/status/1497986717470580744?s=21
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Who’d have thought COAC and the Squad/DSA would align. DSA demanding the US withdraw from NATO, stating “DSA reaffirms our call for the US to withdraw from NATO and to end the imperialist expansionism that set the stage for this conflict.”
The extremists are more alike then they want to admit.
People who attend CPAC are the extremists of the right?
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https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/26/politics/liz-cheney-greene-gosar-republican-white-nationalist-event/index.html
Can we all agree that the organizer and attendees at the America First Political Action Conference are extreme right-wingers? I mean, the organizer literally is rooting for Russia and referred to Putin as his Czar….
BTW a poster from Warsaw on TripAdvisor reported earlier that 156,000 Ukrainians have entered Poland so far.
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People who attend CPAC are the extremists of the right?
Ahem, lets drop this particular needling. Every group has individuals they not completely proud of, including Marquette fans.
Besides, it's not at all productive to this particular topic.
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Some interesting facts as we approach a critical Monday.
My bank (a non-sanctioned foreign bank with full operating license in Russia - and a very good one) is buying Dollars for 89.90 and buying Rubles for 150.01.
The SWIFT thing is happening, but the list of banks is not clear. Probably limited to already sanctioned banks.
Russia has threatened nuclear engagement by taking their nuclear forces to the highest level of alert.
Ukraine, Belarus and Russia have agreed to a negotiation session on the Ukraine/Belarus border.
Russia has threatened seizure of foreign owned bank accounts and assets within Russia, specifically targeting nationals of certain countries. They can do this because all of this information exists in bank data and land/property registry.
My money is safely out for now and my Chase credit card worked today at our favorite coffee shop.
Tomorrow is another day.
I just heard that either the State Department or USA officials are telling Unied States citizens to get out of Moscow and Russia. I really hope you can get to a safe place ASAP.
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It's reported that Russia has committed 75% of their military to Ukraine ops. I think it's time to take Kamchatka to provide a security buffer for Alaska.
I'm not an expert, but I played some Risk in high school so I'm pretty confident in my knowledge on this sort of thing.
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It's reported that Russia has committed 75% of their military to Ukraine ops. I think it's time to take Kamchatka to provide a security buffer for Alaska.
I'm not an expert, but I played some Risk in high school so I'm pretty confident in my knowledge on this sort of thing.
(https://i.gifer.com/242q.gif)
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It's reported that Russia has committed 75% of their military to Ukraine ops. I think it's time to take Kamchatka to provide a security buffer for Alaska.
I'm not an expert, but I played some Risk in high school so I'm pretty confident in my knowledge on this sort of thing.
After Kamchatka, there is just no way to hold Asia, man. You just can't do it. Sure, 7 armies per turn is nice, but there are just too many access points to defend.
Now North America, gets you 5 armies and you only need to defend 3 access points. So what this means is, Candace Owens is right, and it is time to invade Canada.
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Candace Owens is right, and it is time to invade Canada.
The Army will never make it past the truckers.
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After Kamchatka, there is just no way to hold Asia, man. You just can't do it. Sure, 7 armies per turn is nice, but there are just too many access points to defend.
Now North America, gets you 5 armies and you only need to defend 3 access points. So what this means is, Candace Owens is right, and it is time to invade Canada.
What, and ruin Canada? It is nice to think of a place that the USA was once like.
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It's reported that Russia has committed 75% of their military to Ukraine ops. I think it's time to take Kamchatka to provide a security buffer for Alaska.
I'm not an expert, but I played some Risk in high school so I'm pretty confident in my knowledge on this sort of thing.
My summers in the 1970s from age 12 thru 16 involved neighborhood marathon games of Risk and Monopoly. Games would go for days.
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Some interesting facts as we approach a critical Monday.
My bank (a non-sanctioned foreign bank with full operating license in Russia - and a very good one) is buying Dollars for 89.90 and buying Rubles for 150.01.
The SWIFT thing is happening, but the list of banks is not clear. Probably limited to already sanctioned banks.
Russia has threatened nuclear engagement by taking their nuclear forces to the highest level of alert.
Ukraine, Belarus and Russia have agreed to a negotiation session on the Ukraine/Belarus border.
Russia has threatened seizure of foreign owned bank accounts and assets within Russia, specifically targeting nationals of certain countries. They can do this because all of this information exists in bank data and land/property registry.
My money is safely out for now and my Chase credit card worked today at our favorite coffee shop.
Tomorrow is another day.
If you need to get out, consider flights to Asia or Middle East according to folks having to do this now.
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After Kamchatka, there is just no way to hold Asia, man. You just can't do it. Sure, 7 armies per turn is nice, but there are just too many access points to defend.
Now North America, gets you 5 armies and you only need to defend 3 access points. So what this means is, Candace Owens is right, and it is time to invade Canada.
As a vet of hundreds of games of Risk as a young man, I say you are 100% right. Get North America and you're gonna almost always win the game. One good treaty protects you.
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Meanwhile Usyk and Lomenchenko have both shown their willingness to suck up to Putin or at least accept gifts from his supporters. They're a disgrace compared to the brothers.
Well, Loma found his spine.
https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/33388013/top-boxer-vasiliy-lomachenko-joins-terror-defense-battalion-ukraine
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It’s really been astonishing to watch this play out. In a war being fought on land/sea/air, it seems like it’s either going deliberately slow, or very “meh” so far for Russia. On the global battlefield (treaties/policies/financial), Russia is getting obliterated. The war being fought without bullets, Russia has backed itself into a corner. When even the Swiss are going to freeze Russian assets, you know you’re in a heap of trouble.
The worry to me is, what’s next for Russia? At some point, even if they were to take Ukraine, financially as a country they’re about to be crippled. If I’m a middle class Russian citizen, I’d be asking “is this really worth it?”. I don’t know how Putin survives this, even with his massive power control.
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It’s really been astonishing to watch this play out. In a war being fought on land/sea/air, it seems like it’s either going deliberately slow, or very “meh” so far for Russia. On the global battlefield (treaties/policies/financial), Russia is getting obliterated. The war being fought without bullets, Russia has backed itself into a corner. When even the Swiss are going to freeze Russian assets, you know you’re in a heap of trouble.
The worry to me is, what’s next for Russia? At some point, even if they were to take Ukraine, financially as a country they’re about to be crippled. If I’m a middle class Russian citizen, I’d be asking “is this really worth it?”. I don’t know how Putin survives this, even with his massive power control.
Was texting with some friends pretty much exactly this a couple hours ago.
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I don’t know how Putin survives this, even with his massive power control.
This is becoming a pretty popular opinion. Hope it proves to be correct.
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It’s really been astonishing to watch this play out. In a war being fought on land/sea/air, it seems like it’s either going deliberately slow, or very “meh” so far for Russia. On the global battlefield (treaties/policies/financial), Russia is getting obliterated. The war being fought without bullets, Russia has backed itself into a corner. When even the Swiss are going to freeze Russian assets, you know you’re in a heap of trouble.
The worry to me is, what’s next for Russia? At some point, even if they were to take Ukraine, financially as a country they’re about to be crippled. If I’m a middle class Russian citizen, I’d be asking “is this really worth it?”. I don’t know how Putin survives this, even with his massive power control.
There is a reason he is holed up in Sochi. Watch the generals. When he starts blaming them, it might not go well for him and his KGB oligarchs.
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This is becoming a pretty popular opinion. Hope it proves to be correct.
I have to think that makes things all the more dangerous and volatile
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I have to think that makes things all the more dangerous and volatile
That's my fear as well. I mean if you read the transcripts of his last two national addresses you have to ask yourself: did he really think most of the world would buy his complete nonsense? Especially his pretext for the "Military Exercise"? If he's truly delusional it's extremely scary. Maybe someone takes him out?
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From the NYT - "The Russian Central Bank more than doubled its key interest rate, banned foreigners from selling Russian securities and ordered exporters to convert into rubles most of their foreign-currency revenues."
Brutal. Unless Putin nationalizes these companies they're going to shut up shop due to cash flow problems.
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From the NYT - "The Russian Central Bank more than doubled its key interest rate, banned foreigners from selling Russian securities and ordered exporters to convert into rubles most of their foreign-currency revenues."
Brutal. Unless Putin nationalizes these companies they're going to shut up shop due to cash flow problems.
They're going full isolationist. This is jut an attempt to stabilize the ruble... which won't work.
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That's my fear as well. I mean if you read the transcripts of his last two national addresses you have to ask yourself: did he really think most of the world would buy his complete nonsense? Especially his pretext for the "Military Exercise"? If he's truly delusional it's extremely scary. Maybe someone takes him out?
To be fair, he was just copying the western playbook. Not to mention his own successful operation in Crimea.
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It’s really been astonishing to watch this play out. In a war being fought on land/sea/air, it seems like it’s either going deliberately slow, or very “meh” so far for Russia. On the global battlefield (treaties/policies/financial), Russia is getting obliterated. The war being fought without bullets, Russia has backed itself into a corner. When even the Swiss are going to freeze Russian assets, you know you’re in a heap of trouble.
The worry to me is, what’s next for Russia? At some point, even if they were to take Ukraine, financially as a country they’re about to be crippled. If I’m a middle class Russian citizen, I’d be asking “is this really worth it?”. I don’t know how Putin survives this, even with his massive power control.
And he's going to take a lot of other dictators down with him or at very least completely neuter them.
If I was Georgia and Moldova I'd move on the Russia backed rebels in their country now. The thing propping them up is a very badly wounded animal and 80% of Russia's military is in/near Ukraine.
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And he's going to take a lot of other dictators down with him or at very least completely neuter them.
If I was Georgia and Moldova I'd move on the Russia backed rebels in their country now. The thing propping them up is a very badly wounded animal and 80% of Russia's military is in/near Ukraine.
I've seen a few people say the bolded above and I'm not sure that it is true. I saw an article that I believe said that 80% of the troops staged at the Ukrainian border had been deployed into Ukraine....not that 80% of Russia's total military was in Ukraine. Perhaps I misinterpreted that, but I'd have to think that Russia's total military personnel numbers in the millions, not a couple hundred thousand (the last numbers I saw reported for the troop buildup at the borders was ~140k if memory serves).
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I've seen a few people say the bolded above and I'm not sure that it is true. I saw an article that I believe said that 80% of the troops staged at the Ukrainian border had been deployed into Ukraine....not that 80% of Russia's total military was in Ukraine. Perhaps I misinterpreted that, but I'd have to think that Russia's total military personnel numbers in the millions, not a couple hundred thousand (the last numbers I saw reported for the troop buildup at the borders was ~140k if memory serves).
I vaguely recall seeing somewhere recently that it was one million active with another two million in reserve.
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I've seen a few people say the bolded above and I'm not sure that it is true. I saw an article that I believe said that 80% of the troops staged at the Ukrainian border had been deployed into Ukraine....not that 80% of Russia's total military was in Ukraine. Perhaps I misinterpreted that, but I'd have to think that Russia's total military personnel numbers in the millions, not a couple hundred thousand (the last numbers I saw reported for the troop buildup at the borders was ~140k if memory serves).
This is correct.
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To be fair, he was just copying the western playbook. Not to mention his own successful operation in Crimea.
So because there's been Western Imperislism in the past and we did nothing in 2008 and 2014 he didn't sound delusional? Especially his take on Ukranians and their 'Zazi" regime? WTF is your point of what countries did in the past? That we're hypocrites? That we're exactly the same as China and Russia today? That we the USA mirrored Hitler, Stalin, Pol-Pot, and other genocidal manics? That our system, as flawed as it is, isn't vastly superior to a S-Show dictatorship? Cut the b-crap and deal with reality.
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This internet thing sure makes wars interesting
(https://i.imgur.com/6d4kf8t.png) (https://twitter.com/ua_parliament/status/1498329716876587015)
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I've seen a few people say the bolded above and I'm not sure that it is true. I saw an article that I believe said that 80% of the troops staged at the Ukrainian border had been deployed into Ukraine....not that 80% of Russia's total military was in Ukraine. Perhaps I misinterpreted that, but I'd have to think that Russia's total military personnel numbers in the millions, not a couple hundred thousand (the last numbers I saw reported for the troop buildup at the borders was ~140k if memory serves).
You're right. I misread.
They have 800,000 active personnel. So about 25% are deployed in Ukraine.
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You're right. I misread.
They have 800,000 active personnel. So about 25% are deployed in Ukraine.
To your initial point, it would add a major wrinkle if Georgia and Moldova did as you suggested.
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Snake Island sailors confirmed alive. But, they are being held prisoner by Russia.
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This doesn't seem to be going the way Russia wanted or expected.
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So because there's been Western Imperislism in the past and we did nothing in 2008 and 2014 he didn't sound delusional? Especially his take on Ukranians and their 'Zazi" regime? WTF is your point of what countries did in the past? That we're hypocrites? That we're exactly the same as China and Russia today? That we the USA mirrored Hitler, Stalin, Pol-Pot, and other genocidal manics? That our system, as flawed as it is, isn't vastly superior to a S-Show dictatorship? Cut the b-crap and deal with reality.
Get off your high horse. You are literally making things up and attributing them to Hards.
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Zelenskyy has some serious cajones, and sometimes he seems to relish egging on Putin.
Today, he signed an application to have Ukraine join the EU.
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-016cc6cbc65ae95286d825a4ebebd1c5?user_email=6647dfa7189f748384d7389910f7b584c6fcfc35ae990102964c7e826d4175c7&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feb28_Russia_Ukraine&utm_term=Morning%20Wire%20Subscribers
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So because there's been Western Imperislism in the past and we did nothing in 2008 and 2014 he didn't sound delusional? Especially his take on Ukranians and their 'Zazi" regime? WTF is your point of what countries did in the past? That we're hypocrites? That we're exactly the same as China and Russia today? That we the USA mirrored Hitler, Stalin, Pol-Pot, and other genocidal manics? That our system, as flawed as it is, isn't vastly superior to a S-Show dictatorship? Cut the b-crap and deal with reality.
Yo relax. I'm just telling you what happened, and the justification that Putin used.
At no point did I say any of it was okay.
Get a grip.
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Get off your high horse. You are literally making things up and attributing them to Hards.
There are quite a few anti-american and anti-west undertones driveled here by some of you. And you reaffirmed this fact by saying I'm on a "high horse" Not true it all. We should all be on the same side and stop the asinine rhetoric. We can all see the people who have inparted political nonsense in this thread.
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Usyk finally got his priorities together and joined the Ukrainian defense forces. Pretty wild to have 4 of the top 10-20 boxers this generation all fighting in the same military at the same time.
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There are quite a few anti-american and anti-west undertones driveled here by some of you. And you reaffirmed this fact by saying I'm on a "high horse" Not true it all. We should all be on the same side and stop the asinine rhetoric. We can all see the people who have inparted political nonsense in this thread.
Again you are making things up. The horse is getting higher.
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There are quite a few anti-american and anti-west undertones driveled here by some of you. And you reaffirmed this fact by saying I'm on a "high horse" Not true it all. We should all be on the same side and stop the asinine rhetoric. We can all see the people who have inparted political nonsense in this thread.
Nope, it's not politics it's just called history. The facts are not up for debate. I'm sorry they're inconvenient of they hurt your feelings.
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Ukraine credits Turkish drones with eviscerating Russian tanks and armor in their first use in a major conflict
https://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-credits-turkish-drones-eviscerating-170835937.html
"As Russia pounded Ukraine in the opening days of its invasion, the defenders credited a new piece of equipment with helping them fight back — the Bayraktar TB2 drone.
Videos shared by the Ukrainian military showed at least one strike appearing to tear apart a column of Russian tanks and other armored vehicles."
https://twitter.com/ArmedForcesUkr/status/1497997019515961347
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Muggsy, this board has been near universal in condemning Putin. Yes, there have been geopolitical and historical perspectives and discussions. We are educated people.
Your anger is misplaced. Save it for those Americans who were actually chanting Putin's name and praising Russia over the weekend.
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I've read several articles in the last few days taking about how, if there is a silver lining in this unnatural carnal knowledgeery, it's that after more than a decade of authoritarianism gaining power across globe, this is finally uniting democracies and perhaps swinging the pendulum the other way.
Even Sweden and Switzerland are actively taking sides. Of course there remain pro-Putin loons even here ("savvy", "genius", "smart"), but Pootie has pulled off the trick of uniting the vast majority of people against him.
It's hard to know or understand the mind of a KGB assassin (read up on how he came to power in the first place), but it seems like there was very little upside is trying to take over Ukraine.
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I'm pro-poutine. Savory and smart.
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I've read several articles in the last few days taking about how, if there is a silver lining in this unnatural carnal knowledgeery, it's that after more than a decade of authoritarianism gaining power across globe, this is finally uniting democracies and perhaps swinging the pendulum the other way.
Even Sweden and Switzerland are actively taking sides. Of course there remain pro-Putin loons even here ("savvy", "genius", "smart"), but Pootie has pulled off the trick of uniting the vast majority of people against him.
It's hard to know or understand the mind of a KGB assassin (read up on how he came to power in the first place), but it seems like there was very little upside is trying to take over Ukraine.
It's also very anti-nationalism. For awhile, many nations have turned to what is best for our nation is just. That led to a partial dissolving of NATO resolve.
This seems to have undone some of that damage, and has weakened nationalistic tendencies worldwide...at least for now.
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(https://images2.imgbox.com/b5/82/OtWMaBfw_o.jpg) (https://imgbox.com/OtWMaBfw)
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Not particularly surprising.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/milwaukee/2022/02/28/milwaukee-assistant-attorney-who-backed-putin-russia-today-tv-fired-jennifer-demaster/9322215002/
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I've read several articles in the last few days taking about how, if there is a silver lining in this unnatural carnal knowledgeery, it's that after more than a decade of authoritarianism gaining power across globe, this is finally uniting democracies and perhaps swinging the pendulum the other way.
Even Sweden and Switzerland are actively taking sides. Of course there remain pro-Putin loons even here ("savvy", "genius", "smart"), but Pootie has pulled off the trick of uniting the vast majority of people against him.
It's hard to know or understand the mind of a KGB assassin (read up on how he came to power in the first place), but it seems like there was very little upside is trying to take over Ukraine.
In the space of a single weekend, Vladimir Putin ended decades of Swedish and Swiss neutrality, as well as German pacifism.
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It really is great to see a united Europe against the invasion.
A bunch of medium to small countries banding together is awesome.
I remember a number of years back in Billy Mitchell/Mitchell field or whatever the Milwaukee airport is called that Milwaukee has a sister city in Russia.
I personally thought it was pretty cool that stereotypes were trying to be removed of Russia.
From the captured Russian soldiers, you can see they are no different from us.
Every expression on their face is "This whole business totally sucks".
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I ask this with total ignorance…
Russia, sooner rather than later, will have to be on the brink of total bankruptcy, no? Their state bank cash reserves are both plummeting and getting close to the brink of worthlessness, no? The government can’t seemingly borrow from anyone, and can’t lean on any (?) assets as collateral. Yet, their government is going to try to keep conducting a war?
I’m sure I’m missing a bunch of things, just curious if my rationale is on point or not.
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You aren't missing anything. It is just one facet of a worldwide geopolitical situation.
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https://twitter.com/KofmanMichael/status/1498381975022940167?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1498381975022940167%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Fliveupdate%2F18hnzysb1elcs%2FLiveUpdate_cb06d270-98e6-11ec-b5df-421815c5c728%2F0
A good twitter thread to read.
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Not surprising.
Meal Team 6 member of the US Gravy Seals is with the Russian military. Semper Pie!
https://mobile.twitter.com/borzou/status/1498393087952961541
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Finally, we have the answer.
https://crooksandliars.com/2022/02/pat-robertson-putins-goal-attack-israel
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Finally, we have the answer.
https://crooksandliars.com/2022/02/pat-robertson-putins-goal-attack-israel
Honestly, re-posting this isn't accomplishing anything other than giving more due than its worth. I don't believe this "pro-Putin" stuff is anything more than the fringe, and polls are clear that Americans are united against Russia (which a lot of us have seen anecdotally too). Please don't give more oxygen to this narrative.
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Honestly, re-posting this isn't accomplishing anything other than giving more due than its worth. I don't believe this "pro-Putin" stuff is anything more than the fringe, and polls are clear that Americans are united against Russia (which a lot of us have seen anecdotally too). Please don't give more oxygen to this narrative.
Dude, get a sense of humor. Laugh instead of attack.
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Russian teams were suspended Monday from all international soccer, including qualifying matches for the 2022 World Cup.
World soccer body FIFA and European authority UEFA banned Russian national and clubs teams from their competitions “until further notice.” Russia’s men’s national team had been scheduled to play in World Cup qualifying playoffs in just three weeks’ time.
FIFA doing the right thing? Are pigs flying today, too?
To babybluejeans - this is another attempt at humor. :-\
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I ask this with total ignorance…
Russia, sooner rather than later, will have to be on the brink of total bankruptcy, no? Their state bank cash reserves are both plummeting and getting close to the brink of worthlessness, no? The government can’t seemingly borrow from anyone, and can’t lean on any (?) assets as collateral. Yet, their government is going to try to keep conducting a war?
I’m sure I’m missing a bunch of things, just curious if my rationale is on point or not.
Dish,
I read from various places. Russia has $350bil in reserves and they are blowing $20bil a day. So 17.5 days. Don't know what that means after that?
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Poland, Sweden, the UK and the Czech Republic had already announced they would not play against Russia. Their next World Cup qualifier was supposed to be against Poland in Russia later in March.
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My question is:
What benefits the USA with Russia expansion?
So, are those in the USA supporting Russia have some monetary gain by Russia expansion or do they just desire some attention?
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About the only people(used lightly) who seem for or indifferent at very least are the ccp. they are licking their chops staring at Taiwan like a lion on red meat also, little rocket man, no relation of course ;D seems uninhibited once again. Other than that, it seems the world thank God, is united against the Sluggo
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My question is:
What benefits the USA with Russia expansion?
So, are those in the USA supporting Russia have some monetary gain by Russia expansion or do they just desire some attention?
I'm sure some have financial gain (much like those who opposed US intervention in WWII did as well) but for the most part, it's pure political partisanship.
Trump was a Putin fan boy (and worse) for four years, so the Trump loyalists go with whatever he says. If Trump came out in full support of Ukraine and Zelenskyy his base would rally around Ukraine and the left would be posting Russian flags on their social media profile pics.
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Trump was a Putin fan boy (and worse) for four years
Apologies.
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Trump was a Putin fan boy (and worse) for four years, so the Trump loyalists go with whatever he says. If Trump came out in full support of Ukraine and Zelenskyy his base would rally around Ukraine and the left would be posting Russian flags on their social media profile pics.
Stop.
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I'm sure some have financial gain (much like those who opposed US intervention in WWII did as well) but for the most part, it's pure political partisanship.
Trump was a Putin fan boy (and worse) for four years, so the Trump loyalists go with whatever he says. If Trump came out in full support of Ukraine and Zelenskyy his base would rally around Ukraine and the left would be posting Russian flags on their social media profile pics.
This really isn't helpful. We have an exceedingly difficult situation,, and it's long-term, no matter how this plays out.
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I've seen a few people say the bolded above and I'm not sure that it is true. I saw an article that I believe said that 80% of the troops staged at the Ukrainian border had been deployed into Ukraine....not that 80% of Russia's total military was in Ukraine. Perhaps I misinterpreted that, but I'd have to think that Russia's total military personnel numbers in the millions, not a couple hundred thousand (the last numbers I saw reported for the troop buildup at the borders was ~140k if memory serves).
From a military analyst I know. So those other reserves might not be so available.
I'm not convinced that the Russian army really has a lot of resources available to bring in that they aren't already using. They have a lot of tanks and armored vehicles on paper, but when you dig a little for details, most of them are in warehouses, probably stripped for parts to keep the ones they're using operational. They don't have a huge military budget - it's comparable to France or Germany, or the total budget of the University of California system, and they have to use it to maintain all their bases, buy stuff, feed troops, pay them something .
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From a military analyst I know. So those other reserves might not be so available.
I'm not convinced that the Russian army really has a lot of resources available to bring in that they aren't already using. They have a lot of tanks and armored vehicles on paper, but when you dig a little for details, most of them are in warehouses, probably stripped for parts to keep the ones they're using operational. They don't have a huge military budget - it's comparable to France or Germany, or the total budget of the University of California system, and they have to use it to maintain all their bases, buy stuff, feed troops, pay them something .
I'd be very surprised if they don't have a larger air force than this. I don't get why they haven't forced air superiority right off the bat. Like, something's up.
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This really isn't helpful. We have an exceedingly difficult situation,, and it's long-term, no matter how this plays out.
I don’t think it’s long term. The world has lined up against Putin. He won’t go beyond the Ukrainian borders due to fear of widespread attack, and and is losing support of some of his closest confidants within Russia. Intelligence says the Russian Army isn’t so strong or large as made out to be. The Russian public opposes this. Once the money runs out he’s done. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised to see a revolt from within by his own government officials. That they haven’t taken Kyiv yet is telling.
Stop.
You really believe if Trump weren’t so pro-Putin and instead hadn’t spent four years idolizing him publicly as he did his propaganda networks wouldn’t be a 24 hour love fest for Zelinskyy instead? The question was asked why some Americans were supporting Russia. Do you have another answer?
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Like father like son
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You really believe if Trump weren’t so pro-Putin and instead hadn’t spent four years idolizing him publicly as he did his propaganda networks wouldn’t be a 24 hour love fest for Zelinskyy instead? The question was asked why some Americans were supporting Russia. Do you have another answer?
What Trump thinks or does has no bearing on Putin's current actions, or the worlds condemnation of it. I've made it clear I want to avoid partisan bickering in this thread. So stop. Now.
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I think the next couple days could be really ugly.
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Sounds like Kviv is preparing for street to street fighting.
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I'd be very surprised if they don't have a larger air force than this. I don't get why they haven't forced air superiority right off the bat. Like, something's up.
They're quickly learning their migs and Su's are no match for the west's anti Air tech.
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I think the next couple days could be really ugly.
I agree. Things are starting to spiral. I still fear that Russia has been holding back because of perception.
Now with them significantly isolated, and admonished around the world, they may unleash.
Let's just hope that nothing spirals too far. I have more concerns each day as I'm not sure I see a reasonable exit ramp at the moment.
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I agree. Things are starting to spiral. I still fear that Russia has been holding back because of perception.
Now with them significantly isolated, and admonished around the world, they may unleash.
Let's just hope that nothing spirals too far. I have more concerns each day as I'm not sure I see a reasonable exit ramp at the moment.
That's the main point, what is the exit ramp? It's not a positive development to see a 40 mile convoy. I just don't think it's possible to get the Ukrainians the resources they need and we have no idea what Putin will do the next few weeks. He very well could be unhinged. What seems clear is he's not going to retreat which makes this an absolute disaster on many levels.
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An update from the Russia side (again mostly fact based, with one jab at lawyers).
- Exchange rate, which was frozen on Monday will begin trading at 10am Moscow time Tuesday for a limited session
- Remainder of MOEX still closed Tuesday
- Companies selling abroad are required to deposit 80% of earnings immediately in Rubles
- All non-payment overseas transfers by individuals and companies are blocked. (i.e. you cannot get money out)
- Lots of companies over-reacting to the sanctions and stopping/slowing business. Shippers, Mercedes, Volvo, tech, etc. One tech company I know well reacted to the sanctions by laying off their entire Russian staff for the next month. They and their products are not sanctioned... just their legal department, with an apparent inability to read the actual sanctions, decided to stop the business.
- Protesters get arrested
- General disdain for the Russian military. People I talk to are on one hand disappointed with their seeming ineptitude but on the other hand not surprised and a little bit pleased.
- Apple/Google pay doesn't work with sanctioned banks. Sanctioned bank cards don't work outside Russia.
- large commodity producers are working to increase inventory of supplies like consumables, explosives, spare parts - quickly - "in case" things get worse. Some are seeking a year's supply of same.
In short, the economic shock is just beginning.
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I agree. Things are starting to spiral. I still fear that Russia has been holding back because of perception.
Now with them significantly isolated, and admonished around the world, they may unleash.
Let's just hope that nothing spirals too far. I have more concerns each day as I'm not sure I see a reasonable exit ramp at the moment.
That has been my feeling from the start. He knew he would be condemned for going in, but thought it would pass if there weren't massive death numbers. Clearly that isn't the case.
With the world almost unanimously against him, those restraints may not matter anymore. I fear for the Ukrainian people over the next week or two.
As far as an exit ramp, the only one I could possibly see is the $50+ BILION in losses by the richest oligarchs. If they turn on him, it will get real interesting.
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From a military analyst I know. So those other reserves might not be so available.
I'm not convinced that the Russian army really has a lot of resources available to bring in that they aren't already using. They have a lot of tanks and armored vehicles on paper, but when you dig a little for details, most of them are in warehouses, probably stripped for parts to keep the ones they're using operational. They don't have a huge military budget - it's comparable to France or Germany, or the total budget of the University of California system, and they have to use it to maintain all their bases, buy stuff, feed troops, pay them something .
I posted this the other day from stuff I read from analysts. Lied about capabilities , size and efficiency and everyone in the outside world just believed it because there was no evidence to contradict.
* the country is so corrupt, that the military capabilities have been overstated. Basically the lies got bigger the higher up the command chain and western military analysis were based on what the Russian top brass was saying. Ukraine invasion is exposing all.
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I posted this the other day from stuff I read from analysts. Lied about capabilities , size and efficiency and everyone in the outside world just believed it because there was no evidence to contradict.
* the country is so corrupt, that the military capabilities have been overstated. Basically the lies got bigger the higher up the command chain and western military analysis were based on what the Russian top brass was saying. Ukraine invasion is exposing all.
Wouldn't this require the people telling the lies actually believing it? I mean if you know you're lying why invade and risk exposing yourself?
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I posted this the other day from stuff I read from analysts. Lied about capabilities , size and efficiency and everyone in the outside world just believed it because there was no evidence to contradict.
* the country is so corrupt, that the military capabilities have been overstated. Basically the lies got bigger the higher up the command chain and western military analysis were based on what the Russian top brass was saying. Ukraine invasion is exposing all.
Basically a Ponzi scheme.
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Wouldn't this require the people telling the lies actually believing it? I mean if you know you're lying why invade and risk exposing yourself?
Hubris would be a big part of it. There was almost certainly an anticipation of Ukrainian collapse upon the sight of Russian troops. World history teaches us this lesson often. Many choose to ignore it
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Wouldn't this require the people telling the lies actually believing it? I mean if you know you're lying why invade and risk exposing yourself?
No different than the end of the USSR.
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Wouldn't this require the people telling the lies actually believing it? I mean if you know you're lying why invade and risk exposing yourself?
If the lie gets bigger at each stop along the chain of information, then the people at the top know their strength is exaggerated but not how much. Could have thought they would still have an easy victory.
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If the lie gets bigger at each stop along the chain of information, then the people at the top know their strength is exaggerated but not how much. Could have thought they would still have an easy victory.
Yeah, exactly the issue is the lies combined with the game of telephone.
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An update from the Russia side (again mostly fact based, with one jab at lawyers).
- Exchange rate, which was frozen on Monday will begin trading at 10am Moscow time Tuesday for a limited session
- Remainder of MOEX still closed Tuesday
- Companies selling abroad are required to deposit 80% of earnings immediately in Rubles
- All non-payment overseas transfers by individuals and companies are blocked. (i.e. you cannot get money out)
- Lots of companies over-reacting to the sanctions and stopping/slowing business. Shippers, Mercedes, Volvo, tech, etc. One tech company I know well reacted to the sanctions by laying off their entire Russian staff for the next month. They and their products are not sanctioned... just their legal department, with an apparent inability to read the actual sanctions, decided to stop the business.
- Protesters get arrested
- General disdain for the Russian military. People I talk to are on one hand disappointed with their seeming ineptitude but on the other hand not surprised and a little bit pleased.
- Apple/Google pay doesn't work with sanctioned banks. Sanctioned bank cards don't work outside Russia.
- large commodity producers are working to increase inventory of supplies like consumables, explosives, spare parts - quickly - "in case" things get worse. Some are seeking a year's supply of same.
In short, the economic shock is just beginning.
Are you still there? Are you concerned about your own safety? Ability to leave? Take care, stay safe and thanks for the updates.
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Biden- State of the Union address tonight, 9 pm ET, 8 pm CT.
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It really is great to see a united Europe against the invasion.
A bunch of medium to small countries banding together is awesome.
I remember a number of years back in Billy Mitchell/Mitchell field or whatever the Milwaukee airport is called that Milwaukee has a sister city in Russia.
I personally thought it was pretty cool that stereotypes were trying to be removed of Russia.
From the captured Russian soldiers, you can see they are no different from us.
Every expression on their face is "This whole business totally sucks".
Charlotte ending their Russia sister city ties.
https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/charlotte-sever-ties-with-russian-sister-city/E3NFLSM6LFAUPNER4HNPH77O2E/
Didn't seem like a vibrant one in the past number of years.
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The ban on Russian vodka thing is funny and has major "freedom fries" vibes to it. I read that something like <1% of vodka consumed in the US is actually made and imported from Russia, and that legacy brands like Stoli and Smirnoff haven't had any material ties to Russia for a long time, having been bought by non-Russian companies and produced elsewhere (like Chicago) for many years.
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The ban on Russian vodka thing is funny and has major "freedom fries" vibes to it. I read that something like <1% of vodka consumed in the US is actually made and imported from Russia, and that legacy brands like Stoli and Smirnoff haven't had any material ties to Russia for a long time, having been bought by non-Russian companies and produced elsewhere (like Chicago) for many years.
Stoli is made in Latvia.
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The ban on Russian vodka thing is funny and has major "freedom fries" vibes to it. I read that something like <1% of vodka consumed in the US is actually made and imported from Russia, and that legacy brands like Stoli and Smirnoff haven't had any material ties to Russia for a long time, having been bought by non-Russian companies and produced elsewhere (like Chicago) for many years.
Smirnoff was started by. Russian immigrant to Hartford, CT over 100 years ago.
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The ban on Russian vodka thing is funny and has major "freedom fries" vibes to it. I read that something like <1% of vodka consumed in the US is actually made and imported from Russia, and that legacy brands like Stoli and Smirnoff haven't had any material ties to Russia for a long time, having been bought by non-Russian companies and produced elsewhere (like Chicago) for many years.
The most ridiculous part of the requirement some states have imposed that stores get rid of their supply of Russian vodka is the product has already been purchased. Everyone but the store has received their money, including the Russian companies. This is peak virtue signaling.
As said last night, the fact Russia hasn't taken Kyiv yet shows weakness and the general public and armchair intelligence analysts overestimating their capability. Hillary Clinton made this point last night on Maddow, including bringing up speculation from within that Putin is in mental decline.
https://www.ft.com/content/ba440d90-b0ba-4a73-a138-9cb1229b6cac
Western defence officials say there have been apparent Kremlin intelligence failures, citing a badly informed and overconfident Russian military led by a president whose attitude towards the invasion may have been distorted by a closed circle of pliant advisers.
Half a dozen western intelligence officials told the Financial Times that the Russian armed forces’ performance so far suggested Moscow had either failed to collect the correct information on Ukraine’s defences, or that it had been ignored by Putin and his most senior generals — or both.
“He’s biased to his own views of Ukraine and I doubt very much that anyone tells him the truth,” said one official. “About Ukraine, or about the Russian military.”
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Stoli is made in Latvia.
It’s probably owned partially by the Russian mob, however
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Burrow you are entirely correct. had a friend in beverage management tell me years ago that most "Russian" vodka was made here in the States. As an aside ,when he was with Cuervo, he also told me that there are only about 6 producers of Tequila in Mexico . So they are the source of all the hundreds of Tequila brands, LOL
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I caught the tail end of the cold war as a young kid and this is starting to feel like that. Gaming it out, how does this all end? How does the West not end up in a decade(s)-long cold war, or worse?
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Burrow you are entirely correct. had a friend in beverage management tell me years ago that most "Russian" vodka was made here in the States. As an aside ,when he was with Cuervo, he also told me that there are only about 6 producers of Tequila in Mexico . So they are the source of all the hundreds of Tequila brands, LOL
That's not at all unlike whiskey in the US, the vast majority IIRC is made in Indiana at MGP under contract.
I get a kick out of all the new distilleries selling whiskey shortly after opening their doors.
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That's not at all unlike whiskey in the US, the vast majority IIRC is made in Indiana at MGP under contract.
Also the same as whiskey in Ireland as Irish Distillers (French subsidiary) controls almost everything, only major brands not controlled by the conglomerate is Tullamore and Bushmills (though lots of new smaller distilleries popping up!)
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I caught the tail end of the cold war as a young kid and this is starting to feel like that. Gaming it out, how does this all end? How does the West not end up in a decade(s)-long cold war, or worse?
This conflict is personality driven, not institution driven. NATO is likely to emerge stronger and more united. Russian military might is not what our worst case scenario led us to believe.
Russia will be isolated until Putin is gone.
Nuclear arsenal in the hands of a madman is the issue. What will Russian generals do if Putin orders armageddon?
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I caught the tail end of the cold war as a young kid and this is starting to feel like that. Gaming it out, how does this all end? How does the West not end up in a decade(s)-long cold war, or worse?
I certainly don't know how it ends, but if Putin had been satisfied in taking "only" the two breakaway provinces (which he destabilized in the first place), I doubt there would have been as strong a unified reaction from NATO and EU that we are seeing. Seems like a big miscalculation, but Pootie doesn't seem rational at this point.
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Opportunities to join the Foreign Legion of Territorial Defense of Ukraine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKrReH_UQFw
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I certainly don't know how it ends, but if Putin had been satisfied in taking "only" the two breakaway provinces (which he destabilized in the first place), I doubt there would have been as strong a unified reaction from NATO and EU that we are seeing. Seems like a big miscalculation, but Pootie doesn't seem rational at this point.
The heroic stand by the Ukrainian people and the bumbling thus far by the Russians has united Europe and NATO as never before. If Ukraine had been a walkover (as most predicted) who knows how much resolve the West would have shown. But Russia in general and Putin in particular look vulnerable - and that has helped the heretofore reticent to grow a spine. That’s a good thing - and if it lasts bodes well for the future.
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Also the same as whiskey in Ireland as Irish Distillers (French subsidiary) controls almost everything, only major brands not controlled by the conglomerate is Tullamore and Bushmills (though lots of new smaller distilleries popping up!)
yep. Pernod Ricard owns the Old Midleton Distillery outside of Cork where Jameson, Midleton, Powers, Redbreast, Spot, and Paddy are all produced.
However, Bushmills was owned by Diageo and was later "traded" to Cuervo for Don Julio and a spirit to be named later.
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The heroic stand by the Ukrainian people and the bumbling thus far by the Russians has united Europe and NATO as never before. If Ukraine had been a walkover (as most predicted) who knows how much resolve the West would have shown. But Russia in general and Putin in particular look vulnerable - and that has helped the heretofore reticent to grow a spine. That’s a good thing - and if it lasts bodes well for the future.
It's very good, and there has been a lot of positives as you mentioned. The bravery of the Ukrainian leadership and people is truely inspiring. Germany's flip is an enormous positive. But the worry is Putin could lash out and indiscriminately carpet bomb or what have you. Remember what happened in Grozny and Allepo.
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Strategy of the USA revolutionary war.
Survive to fight another day.
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It's very good, and there has been a lot of positives as you mentioned. The bravery of the Ukrainian leadership and people is truely inspiring. Germany's flip is an enormous positive. But the worry is Putin could lash out and indiscriminately carpet bomb or what have you. Remember what happened in Grozny and Allepo.
One thing Clinton and Maddow were discussing last night was recognition by some top Russian military brass that Putin is mentally unstable, maybe more than usual. Clinton believes some of his top lieutenants will step in as the invasion continues to go sour. The longer it takes to take Kyiv the more likely that scenario is to happen.
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This conflict is personality driven, not institution driven. NATO is likely to emerge stronger and more united. Russian military might is not what our worst case scenario led us to believe.
Russia will be isolated until Putin is gone.
Nuclear arsenal in the hands of a madman is the issue. What will Russian generals do if Putin orders armageddon?
My guess is there will be a new cold war with Russia until Putin is gone. If his successor does a little repenting and can somehow come to some mutually acceptable resolution of the Ukraine situation, the west will start backing off the sanctions. The more Russia moderates, the more sanctions will be lifted. Or else Russia goes full China. That would be a real wild card.
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Poles to supply MIG-29s to Ukraine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWoIPrQfth4
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One thing Clinton and Maddow were discussing last night was recognition by some top Russian military brass that Putin is mentally unstable, maybe more than usual. Clinton believes some of his top lieutenants will step in as the invasion continues to go sour. The longer it takes to take Kyiv the more likely that scenario is to happen.
Maybe that’s already happening.
Zelensky assassination plot foiled, Ukrainian authorities say
https://www.axios.com/zelensky-assassination-plot-foiled-7bea049b-2308-4801-b75a-93104c17b82b.html
Ukrainian authorities had been tipped off about the plot by members of Russia's Federal Security Service who do not support the war, he added.
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Poles to supply MIG-29s to Ukraine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWoIPrQfth4
Maybe not.
European plan to donate fighter jets to Ukraine collapses
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/european-plan-to-donate-fighter-jets-to-ukraine-collapses/ar-AAUraGd?ocid=msedgntp
Soon after, a Ukrainian government official told POLITICO their country had sent pilots to Poland to pick up the jets and the Ukrainian parliament announced that the planes from Slovakia, Bulgaria and Poland would soon be on their way. But by Tuesday, Bulgaria and Slovakia said there was no deal to send fighters, and the Polish president, appearing at a Polish air base alongside NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg, said no planes would be flying any time soon.
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Don't know if this is true or psyops, but:
Enemy column destroyed in Mykolaiv Region consisted of 800 vehicles
https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3417480-enemy-column-destroyed-in-mykolaiv-region-consisted-of-800-vehicles.html
An enemy column of military vehicles, which was destroyed by the Ukrainian air forces, military and territorial defense units near the city of Bashtanka, Mykolaiv Region, consisted of 800 vehicles.
The relevant statement was made by Dnipropetrovsk Regional Council Head Mykola Lukashuk on his Facebook page, an Ukrinform correspondent reports.
“In the afternoon, we received information about the Russian military column, moving towards Kryvyi Rih from Bashtanka and consisting of about 800 wheeled vehicles. Our defenders reacted immediately, preventing the enemy from entering Dnipropetrovsk Region. The column was attacked from the air; the occupiers were hit hard,” the report states.
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This conflict is personality driven, not institution driven. NATO is likely to emerge stronger and more united. Russian military might is not what our worst case scenario led us to believe.
Russia will be isolated until Putin is gone.
Nuclear arsenal in the hands of a madman is the issue. What will Russian generals do if Putin orders armageddon?
FWIW
There was a US Defense tweet this morning that said along the lines of.
-We have great Intel.
-Putin in not mentally unstable
-Putin is typically calm behind doors (old KGB training)
=-ntel said he's been non stop screaming and throwing fits at aides, ministers, military, etc which is very atypical.
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Billy, stop bringing unrelated US politics into this. Just stop.
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Billy, stop bringing unrelated US politics into this. Just stop.
Sorry, I brought up what those known Russian sympathizers Rachel Maddow and former Sec. Hillary Clinton discussed on that GOP propaganda machine, MSNBC, and directly answered a question as to why people in the US are supporting Putin. ::)
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Sorry, I brought up what those known Russian sympathizers Rachel Maddow and former Sec. Hillary Clinton discussed on that GOP propaganda machine, MSNBC, and directly answered a question as to why people in the US are supporting Putin. ::)
Well then, enjoy march madness without posting here!
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Well then, enjoy march madness without posting here!
DAAAAAARN
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Swift and decisive action against a bad actor. A metaphor for our times.
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Well then, enjoy march madness without posting here!
Cancel culture
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Consequence Culture
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(https://c.tenor.com/O1tFJ5viowsAAAAC/ban-hammer.gif)
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Well then, enjoy march madness without posting here!
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b7/6d/d6/b76dd622eed1caf97855d378acb43548.gif)
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How many bannings does that make for Clan Bailbonds? Gotta be a record.
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Money may turn out to be the biggest weapon in blunting Putin's ambitions.
Germans Seize Russian Billionaire Alisher Usmanov’s Mega-Yacht
https://www.forbes.com/sites/giacomotognini/2022/03/02/germans-seize-russian-billionaire-alisher-usmanovs-mega-yacht/?sh=6c852cc952dd
"Russian billionaire Alisher Usmanov was sanctioned by the European Union on Monday. Two days later, Forbes has learned from three sources in the yacht industry that one of his prized possessions—the 512-foot yacht Dilbar, valued at nearly $600 million—has been seized by German authorities in the northern city of Hamburg.
Usmanov purchased Dilbar in 2016 for a reported $600 million from German shipbuilder Lürssen, which custom-built it for him over 52 months. The firm calls it "one of the most complex and challenging yachts ever built, in terms of both dimensions and technology." At 15,917 tons, it's the world's largest motor yacht by gross tonnage, and is typically manned by a crew of 96 people. Dilbar boasts the largest swimming pool ever installed on a yacht as well as two helicopter pads, a sauna, a beauty salon, and a gym. Its plush interiors have more than 1,000 sofa cushions and it can host up to 24 people in 12 suites."
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Well then, enjoy march madness without posting here!
Weak sauce.
#freenotchicos
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Weak sauce.
#freenotchicos
#heedmultiplewarnings
You can only warn your toddler so many times before you give them a time out.
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India is an interesting player in all of this from a macro perspective. Obviously they have had deep ties to Russia for a long time. I'm wondering if they could be convinced to distance themselves? It sounds like we're trying to get them on board.
I'm also thinking if there might be some covert op to take Putin out? The Poles have a very good Delta type force. The sad truth is that we're dealing with a colossal asshat who is evil and dangerous.
Obviously we don't want WWIII but if he eventually usurps Ukraine, no matter how ugly it gets, isn't the threat of an expanded war or confrontation between superpowers greater? We know exactly what his goals are. Now maybe the Ukrainians cripple him to the point where he can't attack the Batics or Eastern Euro NATO states for some time. At the same time I feel there could be a coup in Russia and icing him might lead to an immediate surrender? I'm just throwing stuff out there but my dominant thought is that stopping him relatively soon could be the best decision.
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India is an interesting player in all of this from a macro perspective. Obviously they have had deep ties to Russia for a long time. I'm wondering if they could be convinced to distance themselves? It sounds like we're trying to get them on board.
I'm also thinking if there might be some covert op to take Putin out? The Poles have a very good Delta type force. The sad truth is that we're dealing with a colossal asshat who is evil and dangerous.
Obviously we don't want WWIII but if he eventually usurps Ukraine, no matter how ugly it gets, isn't the threat of an expanded war or confrontation between superpowers greater? We know exactly what his goals are. Now maybe the Ukrainians cripple him to the point where he can't attack the Batics or Eastern Euro NATO states for some time. At the same time I feel there could be a coup in Russia and icing him might lead to an immediate surrender? I'm just throwing stuff out there but my dominant thought is that stopping him relatively soon could be the best decision.
His people stopping him is the only rational way out of this.
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His people stopping him is the only rational way out of this.
That seems plausible. What would the Cadre do there if say a Denzel or Liam Neeson type assassin snuffed him?
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That seems plausible. What would the Cadre do there if say a Denzel or Liam Neeson type assassin snuffed him?
Assassination of a head of state is usually pretext for a declaration of war.
I put the odds of this happening at 0.1%.
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Assassination of a head of state is usually pretext for a declaration of war.
I put the odds of this happening at 0.1%.
Though, Poland owes Russia a few assassinations
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Assassination of a head of state is usually pretext for a declaration of war.
I put the odds of this happening at 0.1%.
So if someone made him future fertilizer in the GROM, your concern is a pretext of war? Meaning what exactly?
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I'm a fan of the GROM reading a bit about them.
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So if someone made him future fertilizer in the GROM, your concern is a pretext of war? Meaning what exactly?
I am assuming he means that's Poland declaring war on Russia.
You seem really attached to the idea of escalating events that leads us closer and closer to nuclear weapons being used
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Weak sauce.
#freenotchicos
Does your hashtag include #chicosjr
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So if someone made him future fertilizer in the GROM, your concern is a pretext of war? Meaning what exactly?
Nuclear war. The end of the world. ggs. So many munitions fired that all we do is make the rubble bounce.
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I am assuming he means that's Poland declaring war on Russia.
You seem really attached to the idea of escalating events that leads us closer and closer to nuclear weapons being used
Exactly. And the world is not a movie.
Peace is always the answer.
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Garry Kasparov:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1499088993736138754.html
Putin's war on Ukraine has entered its next phase, one of destruction and slaughter of civilians. It is also a part of Putin's World War, a war on the civilized world of international law, democracy, and any threat to his power, which he declared long ago. 1/13
The free world's denial of this war and decades of appeasement allowed Putin to threaten and conquer abroad while turning Russia into a police state. The price to stop him has gone up every time he has advanced unchallenged. Ukrainians are paying that price in blood. 2/13
If Putin is not stopped now, not prevented from destroying Ukraine and committing genocide against its people, there will be a next time and it will be in NATO, with an unprecedented nuclear threat. Do not let Putin escalate again in a time and place of his choosing. 3/13
(more at the link)
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https://www.toisthe.com/2022/03/ukraine-has-requested-xbox-playstation-to-stop-service-in-russia.html
My son thinks that's the ballgame, Putin will fold now.
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Garry Kasparov:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1499088993736138754.html
Putin's war on Ukraine has entered its next phase, one of destruction and slaughter of civilians. It is also a part of Putin's World War, a war on the civilized world of international law, democracy, and any threat to his power, which he declared long ago. 1/13
The free world's denial of this war and decades of appeasement allowed Putin to threaten and conquer abroad while turning Russia into a police state. The price to stop him has gone up every time he has advanced unchallenged. Ukrainians are paying that price in blood. 2/13
If Putin is not stopped now, not prevented from destroying Ukraine and committing genocide against its people, there will be a next time and it will be in NATO, with an unprecedented nuclear threat. Do not let Putin escalate again in a time and place of his choosing. 3/13
(more at the link)
Ty. I have tremendous respect for Mr. Kasparov.
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Nuclear war. The end of the world. ggs. So many munitions fired that all we do is make the rubble bounce.
So the rest of Russian leadership will nuke countries if he's taken out?
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Nuclear war. The end of the world. ggs. So many munitions fired that all we do is make the rubble bounce.
Ehhh...
I don't think assassination (at least by a foreign nation) is a remotely good idea here, but I imagine Putin's demise at this point would be greeted with more relief than outrage among the powerful in Russia.
I definitely don't think Russian leadership would seek to end the civilized world to avenge Putin.
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Germans seize Russian oligarch's $600,000,000 yacht.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/giacomotognini/2022/03/02/germans-seize-russian-billionaire-alisher-usmanovs-mega-yacht/?utm_source=ForbesMainTwitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialflowForbesMainTwitter&sh=baadf6152ddd
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Nuclear war. The end of the world. ggs. So many munitions fired that all we do is make the rubble bounce.
The way Russia has been fighting and mobilizing vs ukraine, I wouldn't be shocked if the fuel in their nukes didn't work.
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I'm also thinking if there might be some covert op to take Putin out? The Poles have a very good Delta type force. The sad truth is that we're dealing with a colossal asshat who is evil and dangerous.
So your solution to the illegal war against Ukraine, is to commit war crimes and violate the Geneva convention, and international law by assassinating a government official?
Not sure that has any remote logical basis, and is a recipe for starting World War III.
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So your solution to the illegal war against Ukraine, is to commit war crimes and violate the Geneva convention, and international law by assassinating a government official?
Not sure that has any remote logical basis, and is a recipe for starting World War III.
Oh come on…when has the assassination of a world leader ever led to a World War?
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That seems plausible. What would the Cadre do there if say a Denzel or Liam Neeson type assassin snuffed him?
This isn't some Hollywood fable. You need to start living in reality.
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Ehhh...
I don't think assassination (at least by a foreign nation) is a remotely good idea here, but I imagine Putin's demise at this point would be greeted with more relief than outrage among the powerful in Russia.
I definitely don't think Russian leadership would seek to end the civilized world to avenge Putin.
Maybe. And I'm not risking the world on maybe.
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Oh come on…when has the assassination of a world leader ever led to a World War?
I'm just throwing out the idea. Are you saying when world powers have allowed annexation or expansion it hasn't led to a World War?
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Oh come on…when has the assassination of a world leader ever led to a World War?
Archdutchess Frances Isabella has entered the chat.
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Maybe. And I'm not risking the world on maybe.
The Russians aren't either.
Russian leadership may be cruel, corrupt, amoral and evil, but they're not insane and never have been. And they elevate self-preservation above all else.
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In all seriousness is the World Order or Balance of Power more or less dangerous if Putin annexes the Ukraine? Is he just going to eat caviar and drink vodka if he's successful? You have the entire freaking Western World condemning his despicable actions.
Why should we believe he wouldn't eventually invade the Baltics or Poland? If he does we absolutely have to respond. Since we're not going to move towards cutting off his energy piggy bank, what exactly is the plan ? That Ukraine cripples his ability to cause havoc and he'll just stop his stated goals? That he'll have a epiphany?
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In all seriousness is the World Order or Balance of Power more or less dangerous if Putin annexes the Ukraine? Is he just going to eat caviar and drink vodka if he's successful? You have the entire freaking Western World condemning his despicable actions.
Why should we believe he wouldn't eventually invade the Baltics or Poland? If he does we absolutely have to respond. Since we're not going to move towards cutting off his energy piggy bank, what exactly is the plan ? That Ukraine cripples his ability to cause havoc and he'll just stop his stated goals? That he'll have a epiphany?
1. No.
2. It's just Ukraine. Adding 'the' to the beginning is considered insulting.
3. You need to be patient, his economy is toast.
4. Let the Ukrainians fight their own war, and provide them with weapons and humanitarian support. There isn't a need for everyone to get involved in the fighting.
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1. No.
2. It's just Ukraine. Adding 'the' to the beginning is considered insulting.
3. You need to be patient, his economy is toast.
4. Let the Ukrainians fight their own war, and provide them with weapons and humanitarian support. There isn't a need for everyone to get involved in the fighting.
They should have had more weapons months and months ago. Things didn't go particularly well when Chamberlain allowed Hitler to rampage Europe. I'm not saying this is the same thing but again "being patient" isn't necessarily the best response. And you didn't answer my question. Is the world more or less safe if Putin annexes Ukraine? Should we be patient down the road when he does the same in the Baltics or Poland? Why should we assume he would fear our response or NATO?
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How many bannings does that make for Clan Bailbonds? Gotta be a record.
Was Billy Chicos? Too many sockpuppets, too little time to keep them straight. We need a Scoop newsletter or something.
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They should have had more weapons months and months ago.
You are partially right. They should have had more weapons years ago. I'd advise reviewing the history of the last several years to see when/where/why we largely abandoned Ukraine.
In all seriousness is the World Order or Balance of Power more or less dangerous if Putin annexes the Ukraine? Is he just going to eat caviar and drink vodka if he's successful? You have the entire freaking Western World condemning his despicable actions.
Why should we believe he wouldn't eventually invade the Baltics or Poland? If he does we absolutely have to respond. Since we're not going to move towards cutting off his energy piggy bank, what exactly is the plan ? That Ukraine cripples his ability to cause havoc and he'll just stop his stated goals? That he'll have a epiphany?
I was talking to a colleague the other day who grew up in the USSR before his country became independent. He was watching some of the Russian TV, since he speaks Russian, to see what Putin was saying in his full interviews speeches.
Putin's stance is the following: (I haven't looked into the validity of anything, just referencing what my colleague says is in his speeches/interviews on Russian TV).
1. They tried diplomacy, and were repeatedly promised that NATO would not expand further East, and then time and time again, they expanded further, including to countries on their border. Placing advanced weaponry on the Russian border.
2. He asks why NATO still exists, and expands on the borders of Russia if NATO is not supposed to be a direct threat to Russia, as the West claims.
3. He emphasizes that unlike NATO countries, Russia has never invaded any countries...with the caveat that they only take military action in separatist states that were part of Russia.
Essentially, when his loyalist government fell in 2014 in Ukraine, they had to act to secure what is left of Russian power, or possibly be the next target by the West, where they would be surrounded by NATO countries. At least that is the argument they are making.
I find it kind of interesting to see the opposing perspective of what is going on in the world.
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2. It's just Ukraine. Adding 'the' to the beginning is considered insulting.
For the record, so is the title of this thread.
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Are you saying when world powers have allowed annexation or expansion it hasn't led to a World War?
No.
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They should have had more weapons months and months ago. Things didn't go particularly well when Chamberlain allowed Hitler to rampage Europe. I'm not saying this is the same thing but again "being patient" isn't necessarily the best response. And you didn't answer my question. Is the world more or less safe if Putin annexes Ukraine? Should we be patient down the road when he does the same in the Baltics or Poland? Why should we assume he would fear our response or NATO?
The world is the same amount of safe if Putin annexes Ukraine. If he expands to the Baltic states or Poland, then everything changes. The world teeters on the edge of destruction.
Being patient is usually the best response. What does rushing in to defend Ukraine and potentially ending the world solve? Nothing. Ukraine is still destroyed along with everyone and every thing on this planet.
Do you not understand how nuclear weapons work, or what Mutually Assured Destruction is? Don't be so flippant.
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Essentially, when his loyalist government fell in 2014 in Ukraine, they had to act to secure what is left of Russian power, or possibly be the next target by the West, where they would be surrounded by NATO countries.
I'm not entirely sure I understand this or whether I'm confusing whether "they" is referring to Russia or Ukraine. If "they" is referring to Russia, it's definitely a different definition of "surrounded" than I typically think of. I'd say more "completely bordered to on the West." Russia's southern border with non-NATO countries is somewhere in the neighborhood of 10,000 miles.
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You are partially right. They should have had more weapons years ago. I'd advise reviewing the history of the last several years to see when/where/why we largely abandoned Ukraine.
+1
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The world is the same amount of safe if Putin annexes Ukraine. If he expands to the Baltic states or Poland, then everything changes. The world teeters on the edge of destruction.
Being patient is usually the best response. What does rushing in to defend Ukraine and potentially ending the world solve? Nothing. Ukraine is still destroyed along with everyone and every thing on this planet.
Do you not understand how nuclear weapons work, or what Mutually Assured Destruction is? Don't be so flippant.
Over-reactionary is not the mindset one should hold in this situation.
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Do you not understand how nuclear weapons work, or what Mutually Assured Destruction is? Don't be so flippant.
But isn't this exactly why we shouldn't be too afraid of helping Ukraine?
There's no upside I can see for the Russians to use nukes. They love their power and their wealth, and will protect it at all costs. Both vanish with the use of nukes.
Again, Putin is a very bad man, but he's not some doomsday cultist or religious fanatic who sees the end of times as a positive outcome.
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But isn't this exactly why we shouldn't be too afraid of helping Ukraine?
There's no upside I can see for the Russians to use nukes. They love their power and their wealth, and will protect it at all costs. Both vanish with the use of nukes.
Again, Putin is a very bad man, but he's not some doomsday cultist or religious fanatic who sees the end of times as a positive outcome.
You don't see him as someone who is feeling more isolated from the world and backed into a corner?
When was the last time two nuclear powers engaged in a conventional war? Never. And when one side starts to lose that fight, or is faced with a crushing defeat, are you confident that they wouldn't launch a tactical nuclear weapon to even the odds?
They'd certainly try to bring the West down with them if defeat was certain and they knew they'd spend their lives in prison.
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You are partially right. They should have had more weapons years ago. I'd advise reviewing the history of the last several years to see when/where/why we largely abandoned Ukraine.
I was talking to a colleague the other day who grew up in the USSR before his country became independent. He was watching some of the Russian TV, since he speaks Russian, to see what Putin was saying in his full interviews speeches.
Putin's stance is the following: (I haven't looked into the validity of anything, just referencing what my colleague says is in his speeches/interviews on Russian TV).
1. They tried diplomacy, and were repeatedly promised that NATO would not expand further East, and then time and time again, they expanded further, including to countries on their border. Placing advanced weaponry on the Russian border.
2. He asks why NATO still exists, and expands on the borders of Russia if NATO is not supposed to be a direct threat to Russia, as the West claims.
3. He emphasizes that unlike NATO countries, Russia has never invaded any countries...with the caveat that they only take military action in separatist states that were part of Russia.
Essentially, when his loyalist government fell in 2014 in Ukraine, they had to act to secure what is left of Russian power, or possibly be the next target by the West, where they would be surrounded by NATO countries. At least that is the argument they are making.
I find it kind of interesting to see the opposing perspective of what is going on in the world.
And that's the problem and why he is delusional in thought.
1. NATO never promised not to expand East. It's s false narrative that was never promised.
2. NATO still exists because Russia can never be trusted. Putin just proved it. it's a DEFENSIVE organization not an offensive organization. I read a story last week that Yeltsin questioned Clinton why are you expanding NATO and Clinton replied that we can trust you, but how can we be sure to trust the next Russian leader.
3. Ukraine was never a part of Russia, voluntarily. It actually was the Soviet Union, not Russia. No Eastern European country wanted to be a part of the eastern block voluntarily either.
My Polish in-laws live 40 miles from the Belarus border and are only somewhat nervous.
My father-in-law keeps telling my wife that the only thing Putin and Russians will understand is bullets and everyone knows the US has bigger ones than Russian so better to put to use now before things are more precarious later.
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You don't see him as someone who is feeling more isolated from the world and backed into a corner?
When was the last time two nuclear powers engaged in a conventional war? Never. And when one side starts to lose that fight, or is faced with a crushing defeat, are you confident that they wouldn't launch a tactical nuclear weapon to even the odds?
They'd certainly try to bring the West down with them if defeat was certain and they knew they'd spend their lives in prison.
My wife is a fan of author Ken Follett. He released a book last November about nuclear war started after North Korean nuked South Korean in a last gasp after they attacked the south and were repelled and the south was going to overrun them. US replies in North Korea only in kind. The old hardliners but not the young party members think China must reply to respond for North Korea and they all think there is no way the US responds................
https://booktrib.com/2021/11/09/folletts-never-shines-with-the-horrific-brilliance-of-a-nuclear-bomb/
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You don't see him as someone who is feeling more isolated from the world and backed into a corner?
When was the last time two nuclear powers engaged in a conventional war? Never. And when one side starts to lose that fight, or is faced with a crushing defeat, are you confident that they wouldn't launch a tactical nuclear weapon to even the odds?
They'd certainly try to bring the West down with them if defeat was certain and they knew they'd spend their lives in prison.
I'm not disagreeing with your underlying point, but: When was the last time two nuclear powers engaged in a nuclear war? Never.
I'm sure we all pray they never do.
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You don't see him as someone who is feeling more isolated from the world and backed into a corner?
1. I'm not sure he minds that much.
2. You're still going to have to explain to me how Russian leadership benefits from nuclear war.
When was the last time two nuclear powers engaged in a conventional war? Never.
India and Pakistan beg to differ.
They'd certainly try to bring the West down with them if defeat was certain and they knew they'd spend their lives in prison.
"Certainly"?
Agree to disagree, I guess.
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And that's the problem and why he is delusional in thought.
1. NATO never promised not to expand East. It's s false narrative that was never promised.
2. NATO still exists because Russia can never be trusted. Putin just proved it. it's a DEFENSIVE organization not an offensive organization. I read a story last week that Yeltsin questioned Clinton why are you expanding NATO and Clinton replied that we can trust you, but how can we be sure to trust the next Russian leader.
3. Ukraine was never a part of Russia, voluntarily. It actually was the Soviet Union, not Russia. No Eastern European country wanted to be a part of the eastern block voluntarily either.
My Polish in-laws live 40 miles from the Belarus border and are only somewhat nervous.
My father-in-law keeps telling my wife that the only thing Putin and Russians will understand is bullets and everyone knows the US has bigger ones than Russian so better to put to use now before things are more precarious later.
Exactly. There was never a threat that Ukraine was going to join NATO to begin with. There's no way all nations were going to agree with that. And as far as Ukrainian Independence their history goes back before 1991. They also had like 4 million or more people starve to death in the early 30's under Soviet Rule both in Ukraine and Russia. None of the former Soviet Bloc want to be ruled by Putin. We're dealing with a guy who in his national address accused Zelenskky of being a Nazi!! The man is an evil whacko.
So yes, we know this is very scary, very complicated, and no one wants a Nuclear World War 3. At the same time we're capable of doing more and projecting strength here. Why are we still funding this scumfker?? Why don't we and our allies immediately change course and drill? Aren't our pipelines cleaner than Russia's and necessary for national and world security? We can move in this direction immediately in the USA, Canada, and Western Europe. It would hurt pocketbooks in the short term but I think most people understand he can't survive without his energy stranglehold. Meanwhile what exactly do people think the reaction is going to be in China? Is there less of a nuclear threat if he succeeds in Ukraine? I don't see it that way.
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There's a good Daniel Craig movie on the Holodomor.
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https://news.yahoo.com/cheap-chinese-tires-might-explain-094313721.html
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There's a good Daniel Craig movie on the Holodomor.
Ty.
Isn't it true that in the early 90's Biden and others convinced Clinton to stop the Serbian genocide in Bosnia? Now obviously Serbia is not Russia. And Clinton did nothing in Sierra Leone or Rwanda. But it's something to think about.
The destabilization of Eastern Europe with a refugee crisis doesn't exactly lessen Putin's threat to the globe. Why is cowering like Neville here the safe play? Of course there are risks but the greater risk may be not stopping this now. Help establish a no-fly zone with NATO and tell Putin to go fk himself for starters? Cut off his energy supply? Talk to the GROM and other NATO special ops to get this fkbag?? I feel all options should be on the table.
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I feel all options should be on the table.
Including nukes? I'm asking sincerely.
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Ty.
Isn't it true that in the early 90's Biden and others convinced Clinton to stop the Serbian genocide in Bosnia? Now obviously Serbia is not Russia. And Clinton did nothing in Sierra Leone or Rwanda. But it's something to think about.
The destabilization of Eastern Europe with a refugee crisis doesn't exactly lessen Putin's threat to the globe. Why is cowering like Neville here the safe play? Of course there are risks but the greater risk may be not stopping this now. Help establish a no-fly zone with NATO and tell Putin to go fk himself for starters? Cut off his energy supply? Talk to the GROM and other NATO special ops to get this fkbag?? I feel all options should be on the table.
I honestly feel like NATO is at a WWE tag team match waiting for Putin to do something to trigger a NATO response, tag them in. They will stand pat otherwise until he blunders into NATO territory. He's blundering so badly that it feels inevitable.
It's a defensive organization so there won't be an offensive action.
I know, we ALL want to do something and it's frustrating but we need patience.
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Like this one?
(Modified)
A few more.
Stay Calm, America
Putin’s violence may still get worse. But Americans shouldn’t root for a dangerous escalation of hostilities.
By Tom Nichols
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/03/stay-calm-and-dont-advocate-war-against-putin/624169/?utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share
A Russian businessman has put a $1 million bounty on Vladimir Putin's head, calling for military officers to arrest him as a war criminal
https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-businessman-puts-1-million-bounty-on-putins-head-2022-3
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Including nukes? I'm asking sincerely.
No, of course not. But I think the idea he is less likely to use nukes if he annexes Ukraine is patently false.
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Like this one?
(Modified)
A few more.
Stay Calm, America
Putin’s violence may still get worse. But Americans shouldn’t root for a dangerous escalation of hostilities.
By Tom Nichols
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/03/stay-calm-and-dont-advocate-war-against-putin/624169/?utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share
A Russian businessman has put a $1 million bounty on Vladimir Putin's head, calling for military officers to arrest him as a war criminal
https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-businessman-puts-1-million-bounty-on-putins-head-2022-3
NIchols is an interesting guy. I read his book "The Death of Expertise" which I would recommend.
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NIchols is an interesting guy. I read his book "The Death of Expertise" which I would recommend.
Read the article if you haven't. It's a quick read.
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Read the article if you haven't. It's a quick read.
I understand his points, especially that Putin won’t be able to continue West for some time, but I believe there are profound ramifications that are different today as opposed to examples he sites. The far greater concern geopolitically is if China looks at this situation and attacks Taiwan. We're well aware of their ultimate goal. You could also have the Iranians try to exert power in the middle east.
I'm a strong proponent of American hegemony. Not because I think it's a great thing but because I think the alternative is....well....a complete and utter disaster. I believe 100 million people died in both WW2 and the genocides during and after.
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No, of course not. But I think the idea he is less likely to use nukes if he annexes Ukraine is patently false.
Has anyone here said this?
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Has anyone here said this?
Not in those specific words but few here have suggested things will potentially be more dangerous and far worse if we don't do more to thwart Putin right now.
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The appeasement narrative is extremely "If you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail." If you see anything but the use of international military force to counter territorial agression as "appeasement," you are going to do more harm than good. Especially in the nuclear age.
I want to point out that even before the invasion of Ukraine, there have been a lot of legitimate debates about the degree to which NATO should have expanded to Russia's doorstep after the fall of the USSR. I don't think the invasion is necessarily proof that the West should have expanded NATO to all willing post-Soviet republics and armed them to the teeth. That is revisionist history that ignores (i) how corrupt and unstable many of those nations are/have been (ii) the significant pro-Moscow minorities in some of those countries whose political influence rises and falls, and (iii) that Putin isn't the only Russian who views NATO encroachment as a threat, and how NATO expansion has been a self-fulfilling threat prophecy for many Russians.
I guess my point is that the kneejerk reaction to play the West blame game here is unwarranted. Sure there are things we'll decide could have been done better, but I actually don't think we systematically made a ton of poor decisions to get to this point. And I think the Hitler comparisons and the appeasement narrative really ignore most of the relevant details of the situation.
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Not in those specific words but few here have suggested things will potentially be more dangerous and far worse if we don't do more to thwart Putin right now.
Yeah, people have made those suggestions - it's called nuclear war.
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And that's the problem and why he is delusional in thought.
1. NATO never promised not to expand East. It's s false narrative that was never promised.
2. NATO still exists because Russia can never be trusted. Putin just proved it. it's a DEFENSIVE organization not an offensive organization. I read a story last week that Yeltsin questioned Clinton why are you expanding NATO and Clinton replied that we can trust you, but how can we be sure to trust the next Russian leader.
3. Ukraine was never a part of Russia, voluntarily. It actually was the Soviet Union, not Russia. No Eastern European country wanted to be a part of the eastern block voluntarily either.
I don't necessarily disagree with any of this, but the fact is there are two lens to view all of this through. Russian leaders believe their lens, and are reacting to it.
If they really believe that at this point they have nothing more to lose, then we are in a scary situation.
My Polish in-laws live 40 miles from the Belarus border and are only somewhat nervous.
My father-in-law keeps telling my wife that the only thing Putin and Russians will understand is bullets and everyone knows the US has bigger ones than Russian so better to put to use now before things are more precarious later.
I hope it never escalates to anyone using bigger bullets.
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My wife is a fan of author Ken Follett. He released a book last November about nuclear war started after North Korean nuked South Korean in a last gasp after they attacked the south and were repelled and the south was going to overrun them. US replies in North Korea only in kind. The old hardliners but not the young party members think China must reply to respond for North Korea and they all think there is no way the US responds................
https://booktrib.com/2021/11/09/folletts-never-shines-with-the-horrific-brilliance-of-a-nuclear-bomb/
I read the first two books of the Century Trilogy and thought they were great... but I've never been so disappointed in the first 5 chapters of Edge of Eternity than I have ever been reading a series. Totally killed Follett for me.
I could be tempted to read Never though.
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1. I'm not sure he minds that much.
2. You're still going to have to explain to me how Russian leadership benefits from nuclear war.
India and Pakistan beg to differ.
"Certainly"?
Agree to disagree, I guess.
1. You're high
2. So in your opinion, no one will ever fire a nuclear weapon. Got it.
India and Pakistan? They skirmished in 1999. If you want to call that a war, go nuts. According to the US state dept less than 700 killed. But if you want the W, or gotcha, you can technically have it.
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Ty.
Isn't it true that in the early 90's Biden and others convinced Clinton to stop the Serbian genocide in Bosnia? Now obviously Serbia is not Russia. And Clinton did nothing in Sierra Leone or Rwanda. But it's something to think about.
The destabilization of Eastern Europe with a refugee crisis doesn't exactly lessen Putin's threat to the globe. Why is cowering like Neville here the safe play? Of course there are risks but the greater risk may be not stopping this now. Help establish a no-fly zone with NATO and tell Putin to go fk himself for starters? Cut off his energy supply? Talk to the GROM and other NATO special ops to get this fkbag?? I feel all options should be on the table.
You ever hear the saying, "Speak softly and carry a big stick"?
I think in the coming weeks you're going to see that the army that Russia sent to Ukraine is a bit of a paper tiger. Already there are many reports of food and supply shortages. They don't have enough rockets and bombs to drop them at the rate that they are. That kind of stuff is expensive, and no one in the world has a stockpile like the US. And now, with these sanctions, the Russia military has a serious supply problem. How do you make smart munitions without chips? This is why I'm saying be patient. Russia expected this to be a cake walk, and has met fierce resistance... and motivated Ukrainians.
Nothing is out of control over there... except maybe the Nuclear plant that is on fire... which is really bad.
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You ever hear the saying, "Speak softly and carry a big stick"?
I think in the coming weeks you're going to see that the army that Russia sent to Ukraine is a bit of a paper tiger. Already there are many reports of food and supply shortages. They don't have enough rockets and bombs to drop them at the rate that they are. That kind of stuff is expensive, and no one in the world has a stockpile like the US. And now, with these sanctions, the Russia military has a serious supply problem. How do you make smart munitions without chips? This is why I'm saying be patient. Russia expected this to be a cake walk, and has met fierce resistance... and motivated Ukrainians.
Nothing is out of control over there... except maybe the Nuclear plant that is on fire... which is really bad.
The Nuclear plant blowing up would be really, really, really, bad. My fear, especially after hearing Macron, is that Putin will resort to the same tactics he used in Grozny. He is a war criminal.
Now there is no question occupying Ukraine will cripple his military which is a positive. At the same time, I agree with the sentiment that this man is delusional and has no regard for humanity. Did you read his latest address? I don't believe he's even thinking about the ramifications of this mess. He's like a 4 yr old hell bent on decapitating his 2 year old sister's doll.
The rules of engagement for war change when you're dealing with a ruthless tyrant and a complete madman. I'm not saying this is easy but I don't see his mindset changing moving forward.
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1. You're high
2. So in your opinion, no one will ever fire a nuclear weapon. Got it.
India and Pakistan? They skirmished in 1999. If you want to call that a war, go nuts. According to the US state dept less than 700 killed. But if you want the W, or gotcha, you can technically have it.
Why are you getting so surly?
1. Thoughtful response.
2. Thoughtful straw man response. I'd like to think you can do better.
3. It's literally been called a war by both countries and historians. Sorry not enough people were killed to satisfy your standards.
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The Nuclear plant blowing up would be really, really, really, bad. My fear, especially after hearing Macron, is that Putin will resort to the same tactics he used in Grozny. He is a war criminal.
Now there is no question occupying Ukraine will cripple his military which is a positive. At the same time, I agree with the sentiment that this man is delusional and has no regard for humanity. Did you read his latest address? I don't believe he's even thinking about the ramifications of this mess. He's like a 4 yr old hell bent on decapitating his 2 year old sister's doll.
The rules of engagement for war change when you're dealing with a ruthless tyrant and a complete madman. I'm not saying this is easy but I don't see his mindset changing moving forward.
That title is meaningless
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Why are you getting so surly?
1. Thoughtful response.
2. Thoughtful straw man response. I'd like to think you can do better.
3. It's literally been called a war by both countries and historians. Sorry not enough people were killed to satisfy your standards.
I learned from the best. ;)
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That title is meaningless
Exactly. Pretty much every US President is a war criminal.
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The destabilization of Eastern Europe with a refugee crisis doesn't exactly lessen Putin's threat to the globe. Why is cowering like Neville here the safe play? Of course there are risks but the greater risk may be not stopping this now. Help establish a no-fly zone with NATO and tell Putin to go fk himself for starters? Cut off his energy supply? Talk to the GROM and other NATO special ops to get this fkbag?? I feel all options should be on the table.
So you are calling for a full scale war with Russia?
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The latest in Russia:
- These sanctions are impactful like nothing I've ever seen. Amazingly coordinated and consistent effort from USA, EU and UK. First time I've ever seen sanctions actually work. Energy sector remains out of scope but financial sector is frozen.
- Many companies have either temporarily or "permanently" stopped working in Russia
- Most significantly, most shipping lines have stopped serving Russia. Some for sanctions reasons, some for political/policy reasons.
- Oligarchs are beginning to send signals, some more overt than others
- Very strong rumors from multiple sources that martial law will be implemented
- Reports that over 7000 protesters have been arrested. Apparently it's a 7 year sentence. Basically it seems that all protesters get arrested unless the group is huge.
- Over $1.4bn has been withdrawn from russian banks by individuals
- Russian share market still suspended
- RUB is 110 to $1... it was 75 a week ago
- Russian sovereign credit rating reduced by 4-6 levels deep into junk status
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So you are calling for a full scale war with Russia?
Of course not. I was just thinking out loud. But I don't think establishing a no-fly zone and other things would lead to a full scale war. Especially if he waa dead. According to him we are already at war with each other.
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The latest in Russia:
- These sanctions are impactful like nothing I've ever seen. Amazingly coordinated and consistent effort from USA, EU and UK. First time I've ever seen sanctions actually work. Energy sector remains out of scope but financial sector is frozen.
- Many companies have either temporarily or "permanently" stopped working in Russia
- Most significantly, most shipping lines have stopped serving Russia. Some for sanctions reasons, some for political/policy reasons.
- Oligarchs are beginning to send signals, some more overt than others
- Very strong rumors from multiple sources that martial law will be implemented
- Reports that over 7000 protesters have been arrested. Apparently it's a 7 year sentence. Basically it seems that all protesters get arrested unless the group is huge.
- Over $1.4bn has been withdrawn from russian banks by individuals
- Russian share market still suspended
- RUB is 110 to $1... it was 75 a week ago
- Russian sovereign credit rating reduced by 4-6 levels deep into junk status
From what I've read he's sort of distanced himself from the oligarchs. But it is cool to seize yachts and planes. I also think if they leave Russia they couod be charged with war crimes at the Hague.
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Zelenskyy is saying that the Russian troops are actually shooting at this Nuclear plant. Insane sht going on right now.
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Why are you getting so surly?
1. Thoughtful response.
2. Thoughtful straw man response. I'd like to think you can do better.
3. It's literally been called a war by both countries and historians. Sorry not enough people were killed to satisfy your standards.
Fine, I'll answer nicely.
1. What makes you think putin is fine with being alone? He just destroyed his entire financial system in less than eight days. Prior to that, he seemed content to play nice with the rest of the financial world.
2. They save face. It is not about benefitting. It's about one last eff you on your way out the door. Again, maybe they won't, but I'm not willing to risk that they might.
3. Again, I agreed that technically it was a war. You are right. But it is missing the important part that I had mentioned in an earlier post. Neither India, nor Pakistan felt an existential threat as a country. No one was backed into a corner, and the war ended fairly bloodless (as wars go) and Pakistan withdrew.
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From what I've read he's sort of distanced himself from the oligarchs. But it is cool to seize yachts and planes. I also think if they leave Russia they couod be charged with war crimes at the Hague.
The ICC isn't recognized by Russia. Just like it isn't recognized by the US. It is a pointless organization and does not concern major super powers in the least.
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The ICC isn't recognized by Russia. Just like it isn't recognized by the US. It is a pointless organization and does not concern major super powers in the least.
They can still technically try non-members. They tried to do that to the US a few years back, so the US retaliated by placing sanctions on the lead prosecutor.
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Of course not. I was just thinking out loud. But I don't think establishing a no-fly zone and other things would lead to a full scale war. Especially if he waa dead. According to him we are already at war with each other.
You don’t think it would lead to a full scale war if we start shooting down Russian planes?
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They can still technically try non-members. They tried to do that to the US a few years back, so the US retaliated by placing sanctions on the lead prosecutor.
Worse. The US passed a law under GWB that said if the ICC had any Americans we would invade The Hague.
Worst case is the ICC can set a travel ban to its member countries.
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You don’t think it would lead to a full scale war if we start shooting down Russian planes?
Meaning what exactly? That the Russians would use nukes?
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I've been told there are a few reports of Russian businessman/women putting out bounties for Putin's arrest.
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I've been told there are a few reports of Russian businessman/women putting out bounties for Putin's arrest.
This likely references Alex Konanykhin, who is Russian, with political asylum in the US (granted originally in 1999). He lives in San Francisco. He posted a $1M bounty for the arrest of Putin.
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This likely references Alex Konanykhin, who is Russian, with political asylum in the US (granted originally in 1999). He lives in San Francisco. He posted a $1M bounty for the arrest of Putin.
What do you think would happen if he was arrested or put to pasture within Russia?
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I've been told there are a few reports of Russian businessman/women putting out bounties for Putin's arrest.
Muggs,
It's in one of my links from yesterday.
-
The latest in Russia:
- These sanctions are impactful like nothing I've ever seen. Amazingly coordinated and consistent effort from USA, EU and UK. First time I've ever seen sanctions actually work. Energy sector remains out of scope but financial sector is frozen.
- Many companies have either temporarily or "permanently" stopped working in Russia
- Most significantly, most shipping lines have stopped serving Russia. Some for sanctions reasons, some for political/policy reasons.
- Oligarchs are beginning to send signals, some more overt than others
- Very strong rumors from multiple sources that martial law will be implemented
- Reports that over 7000 protesters have been arrested. Apparently it's a 7 year sentence. Basically it seems that all protesters get arrested unless the group is huge.
- Over $1.4bn has been withdrawn from russian banks by individuals
- Russian share market still suspended
- RUB is 110 to $1... it was 75 a week ago
- Russian sovereign credit rating reduced by 4-6 levels deep into junk status
I saw a Bill Browser tweet somewhere.
The maker of Russian cars, Lada has shut down because they have no chips and will not get anymore anytime if ever. Same manufacturer makes defense and space equipment for Russia so it means those are shut down also.
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I saw a Bill Browser tweet somewhere.
The maker of Russian cars, Lada has shut down because they have no chips and will not get anymore anytime if ever. Same manufacturer makes defense and space equipment for Russia so it means those are shut down also.
Are we sure this is true? Lada’s parent company is AutoVyz (may have spelled that wrong) and that company is fully owned/controlled by Renault. Now with everything, even with Renault ownership, they still may not be able to get parts for their cars, but I don’t believe that company also makes space and defense components in that structure. Unless it means that the issues Lada is facing would also be true for defense companies there, which I totally believe
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Are we sure this is true? Lada’s parent company is AutoVyz (may have spelled that wrong) and that company is fully owned/controlled by Renault. Now with everything, even with Renault ownership, they still may not be able to get parts for their cars, but I don’t believe that company also makes space and defense components in that structure. Unless it means that the issues Lada is facing would also be true for defense companies there, which I totally believe
I think it's the latter not former. Same issues.
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Of course not. I was just thinking out loud. But I don't think establishing a no-fly zone and other things would lead to a full scale war. Especially if he waa dead. According to him we are already at war with each other.
Most of your suggested actions are declarations of war
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Most of your suggested actions are declarations of war
I'm not sure establishing a no-fly zone over Ukraine would be a declaration of war. Actually enforcing it, on the other hand...
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I'm not sure establishing a no-fly zone over Ukraine would be a declaration of war. Actually enforcing it, on the other hand...
Of course. Enforcing it would mean American planes shooting russian planes out of the sky.
How could that possibly lead to something bad? 8-)
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Of course. Enforcing it would mean American planes shooting russian planes out of the sky.
How could that possibly lead to something bad? 8-)
Perhaps if our pilots communicated with them, while inverted above them at a range of a couple meters, they would leave.
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Do you think the stability of Europe is more or less vulnerable if there are 10 million Ukrainian refugees and countless deaths? Europe is at war right now. The lunatic was shooting at a Nuclear plant last night. He is capable of using Nukes right now in Ukraine. There are no easy or good decisions. If he takes and subjugates Ukraine will he feel more or less emboldened to attempt to take over the Baltics or Poland? Personally I think he needs to be taken out. Ideally within Russia.
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Do you think the stability of Europe is more or less vulnerable if there are 10 million Ukrainian refugees and countless deaths? Europe is at war right now. The lunatic was shooting at a Nuclear plant last night. He is capable of using Nukes right now in Ukraine. There are no easy or good decisions. If he takes and subjugates Ukraine will he feel more or less emboldened to attempt to take over the Baltics or Poland? Personally I think he needs to be taken out. Ideally within Russia.
There are choices that assure war spreads beyond the borders of Ukraine/Russia. You keep wanting those.
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Perhaps if our pilots communicated with them, while inverted above them at a range of a couple meters, they would leave.
Communicating.
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Communicating.
Yeah. Keeping up foreign relations.
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Do you think the stability of Europe is more or less vulnerable if there are 10 million Ukrainian refugees and countless deaths? Europe is at war right now. The lunatic was shooting at a Nuclear plant last night. He is capable of using Nukes right now in Ukraine. There are no easy or good decisions. If he takes and subjugates Ukraine will he feel more or less emboldened to attempt to take over the Baltics or Poland? Personally I think he needs to be taken out. Ideally within Russia.
Volunteer for the job. Show your patriotism.
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i think we can all agree that putin is certifiably "unstable", but i really believe he has upped his consumption of stoly and/or any number of other illicit substances. he looks quite a bit more puffy than he has in the past
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https://news.sky.com/story/sky-news-teams-harrowing-account-of-their-violent-ambush-in-ukraine-this-week-12557585
Shooting at journalists now.
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I'm not sure establishing a no-fly zone over Ukraine would be a declaration of war. Actually enforcing it, on the other hand...
(https://preview.redd.it/s6hdwntp7a701.jpg?auto=webp&s=70bfd8324491d631ee43dc66183ce3b8ea6c266d)
Same energy as no fly zone declarations that 74% of Americans want.
Too bad Putin already is on gool so he can't be "it".
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Stumbled upon Russian sympathizer Twitter today and it’s…something. It’s not the “Putin savvy genius” bent but more millennial communist/uber socialist Twitter saying NATO is the real devil here and somehow wanting to treat Russia with a rosy lens cause they were communists 30 years ago. Some of my fav arguments
“NATO continues to break promises by expanding East, Russia is just protecting itself.”
“Only 30 of the world’s 200 countries are in NATO, it’s a Western Capitalist cartel. They won’t even let Mexico join!”
“People only care about Ukraine cause it’s white people”
Full threads covering how there are far right Neo Nazi militia groups in Ukraine so Putin totally has a point and he’s in the right.
Oh and “American billionaires are just as bad, probably worse, as Russian oligarchs, we just call them entrepreneurs. Bezos and Gates and Ellison should also have their assets seized for funding and supporting the vast war crimes of the US military”
It’s SPECIAL
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Stumbled upon Russian sympathizer Twitter today and it’s…something. It’s not the “Putin savvy genius” bent but more millennial communist/uber socialist Twitter saying NATO is the real devil here and somehow wanting to treat Russia with a rosy lens cause they were communists 30 years ago. Some of my fav arguments
“NATO continues to break promises by expanding East, Russia is just protecting itself.”
“Only 30 of the world’s 200 countries are in NATO, it’s a Western Capitalist cartel. They won’t even let Mexico join!”
“People only care about Ukraine cause it’s white people”
Full threads covering how there are far right Neo Nazi militia groups in Ukraine so Putin totally has a point and he’s in the right.
Oh and “American billionaires are just as bad, probably worse, as Russian oligarchs, we just call them entrepreneurs. Bezos and Gates and Ellison should also have their assets seized for funding and supporting the vast war crimes of the US military”
It’s SPECIAL
The crazy left and maga right have a surprising amount in common
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Stumbled upon Russian sympathizer Twitter today and it’s…something. It’s not the “Putin savvy genius” bent but more millennial communist/uber socialist Twitter saying NATO is the real devil here and somehow wanting to treat Russia with a rosy lens cause they were communists 30 years ago. Some of my fav arguments
“NATO continues to break promises by expanding East, Russia is just protecting itself.”
“Only 30 of the world’s 200 countries are in NATO, it’s a Western Capitalist cartel. They won’t even let Mexico join!”
“People only care about Ukraine cause it’s white people”
Full threads covering how there are far right Neo Nazi militia groups in Ukraine so Putin totally has a point and he’s in the right.
Oh and “American billionaires are just as bad, probably worse, as Russian oligarchs, we just call them entrepreneurs. Bezos and Gates and Ellison should also have their assets seized for funding and supporting the vast war crimes of the US military”
It’s SPECIAL
Who else besides jesmu's Twitter did you rabbit hole?
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Careful, Mods may lock.
No personal attacks.
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Stumbled upon Russian sympathizer Twitter today and it’s…something. It’s not the “Putin savvy genius” bent but more millennial communist/uber socialist Twitter saying NATO is the real devil here and somehow wanting to treat Russia with a rosy lens cause they were communists 30 years ago. Some of my fav arguments
“NATO continues to break promises by expanding East, Russia is just protecting itself.”
“Only 30 of the world’s 200 countries are in NATO, it’s a Western Capitalist cartel. They won’t even let Mexico join!”
“People only care about Ukraine cause it’s white people”
Full threads covering how there are far right Neo Nazi militia groups in Ukraine so Putin totally has a point and he’s in the right.
Oh and “American billionaires are just as bad, probably worse, as Russian oligarchs, we just call them entrepreneurs. Bezos and Gates and Ellison should also have their assets seized for funding and supporting the vast war crimes of the US military”
It’s SPECIAL
Good grief. Boy do we have problems.
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I thought this was interesting regarding the "economic war" being fought as part of all this. It's from Andrew Serwer, the editor at Yahoo Finance. He starts with a long description of what's going on, and concludes with this ...
Bottom line though, the list of companies standing up to Putin is long and getting longer by the hour. Check out this ever-updating story from the ever-present Sozzi and Alexandra Semenova. It’s a huge diverse group; American Express, Apple, Nike, Goldman Sachs, DirectTV, GM, Disney, Harley-Davidson, Boeing, Mastercard, Visa, BlackRock, Warner Media, Dell, the NYSE and Nasdaq. And that’s just a handful of big American names.
Fact is, I can’t recall ever seeing the private sector so aligned.
I spoke about this with Bill Browder, a super-interesting guy, who’s CEO of Hermitage Capital Management and head of the Global Magnitsky Justice Campaign. To say he and Putin have history is an understatement.
Quick backstory: In the late 1990s and early 2000s, Browder’s firm delivered stellar returns by exposing corruption at major Russian companies, bringing about company shake-ups, and boosting share prices. In 2005, Browder was denied reentry to Russia and later became the victim of a Russian government scheme to undermine his firm, he says. Sergei Magnitsky, a lawyer hired by Browder to investigate Russian corruption, was arrested and died in Russian custody.
Here’s what Browder told me about the private sector going up against Putin:
“If every Western company stops doing business with the Russians, it's really dramatic. When I started my whole campaign for justice for Sergei Magnitsky, one of the first people I met with was a woman in South Africa named Helen Zille, one of the people involved in the anti-apartheid movement. We talked about how they ended apartheid. She said it was all about the U.S. and Western Europe disinvesting from South Africa. When they became financially isolated, it became too much."
“And so I think this is really, really important. When we watch these atrocities unfold in Ukraine, I think it's just to pressure every single Western business, to divest, to stop doing business, to stop supplying goods, to stop supplying services to Russia.”
Thanks in part to a financial war back then, the private sector helped end apartheid. Let’s hope it can somehow do the same to end Putin.
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I've seen a few stories on the Russian AI bots being shut down and how different Facebook & Twitter is without them
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https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/05/sports/basketball/russia-brittney-griner.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
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You’re right. It’s being led by the current president of the United States (who is either part of the crazy left or so afraid of them he won’t cross them), several members of Congress and bigly popular talking heads on crazy left and solidly left TV networks.
Surprised by the ridiculousness of this post, Tony, when you know exactly what's going on.
Meanwhile ... I'm quite certain we'll agree that this is very bad ...
Brittney Griner Detained in Russia
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/05/sports/basketball/russia-brittney-griner.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20220305&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline®i_id=108420427&segment_id=84764&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
The Russian Federal Customs Service said that its officials had detained an American basketball player after finding vape cartridges that contained hashish oil in her luggage at the Sheremetyevo airport near Moscow.
The Customs Service said in a statement that the player had won two Olympic gold medals with the United States, but it did not release the player’s name. The Russian news agency TASS, citing a law enforcement source, identified the player as Brittney Griner, a seven-time W.N.B.A. All-Star center for the Phoenix Mercury. Griner won gold medals with the U.S. women’s national basketball team in 2021 and 2016.
The Customs Service released a video of a traveler at the airport that appeared to be the 31-year-old Griner, wearing a mask and black sweatshirt, going through security. The video showed an individual removing a package from the traveler’s bag.
According to the statement, a criminal case has been opened into the large-scale transportation of drugs, which can carry a sentence of up to 10 years behind bars in Russia. The basketball player was taken into custody while the investigation is ongoing, the officials said.
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Gents, keep your personal politics out of this. And Wags, I kept your post, but you have to have known that was going to stir up politics, right?
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Meanwhile ... I'm quite certain we'll agree that this is very bad ...
Brittney Griner Detained in Russia
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/05/sports/basketball/russia-brittney-griner.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20220305&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline®i_id=108420427&segment_id=84764&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
The Russian Federal Customs Service said that its officials had detained an American basketball player after finding vape cartridges that contained hashish oil in her luggage at the Sheremetyevo airport near Moscow.
The Customs Service said in a statement that the player had won two Olympic gold medals with the United States, but it did not release the player’s name. The Russian news agency TASS, citing a law enforcement source, identified the player as Brittney Griner, a seven-time W.N.B.A. All-Star center for the Phoenix Mercury. Griner won gold medals with the U.S. women’s national basketball team in 2021 and 2016.
The Customs Service released a video of a traveler at the airport that appeared to be the 31-year-old Griner, wearing a mask and black sweatshirt, going through security. The video showed an individual removing a package from the traveler’s bag.
According to the statement, a criminal case has been opened into the large-scale transportation of drugs, which can carry a sentence of up to 10 years behind bars in Russia. The basketball player was taken into custody while the investigation is ongoing, the officials said.
I agree that this is very bad. But man, what was she thinking, carrying Hashish oil in an airport during a major international crisis on the tipping point of a major altercation between Russia and the West.
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I've seen a few stories on the Russian AI bots being shut down and how different Facebook & Twitter is without them
read the replies.
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Stumbled upon Russian sympathizer Twitter today and it’s…something. It’s not the “Putin savvy genius” bent but more millennial communist/uber socialist Twitter saying NATO is the real devil here and somehow wanting to treat Russia with a rosy lens cause they were communists 30 years ago. Some of my fav arguments
“NATO continues to break promises by expanding East, Russia is just protecting itself.”
“Only 30 of the world’s 200 countries are in NATO, it’s a Western Capitalist cartel. They won’t even let Mexico join!”
“People only care about Ukraine cause it’s white people”
Full threads covering how there are far right Neo Nazi militia groups in Ukraine so Putin totally has a point and he’s in the right.
Oh and “American billionaires are just as bad, probably worse, as Russian oligarchs, we just call them entrepreneurs. Bezos and Gates and Ellison should also have their assets seized for funding and supporting the vast war crimes of the US military”
It’s SPECIAL
While I have absolutely zero doubt there is a small but significant number of nutters that think this way in the U.S., it seems just as likely that this is just a post from a Russian troll farm.
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While I have absolutely zero doubt there is a small but significant number of nutters that think this way in the U.S., it seems just as likely that this is just a post from a Russian troll farm.
It isn't.
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Wags didn't include a link to the post (and I didn't bother to research admittedly), so how do you know?
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Wags didn't include a link to the post (and I didn't bother to research admittedly), so how do you know?
There are definitely online "leftists" who support Putin/Russia from the sole viewpoint of "west bad"
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There are definitely online "leftists" who support Putin/Russia from the sole viewpoint of "west bad"
Yeah, I said as much--there are unquestionably a small but still notable number of people in the U.S. that support Putin. My question to hards was more about how he knew the particular tweet was from a real person rather than from a Russian troll farm, that's all.
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I agree that this is very bad. But man, what was she thinking, carrying Hashish oil in an airport during a major international crisis on the tipping point of a major altercation between Russia and the West.
If the russians said she did it, it must be so. They even have video. Ooooh.
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Yeah, I said as much--there are unquestionably a small but still notable number of people in the U.S. that support Putin. My question to hards was more about how he knew the particular tweet was from a real person rather than from a Russian troll farm, that's all.
I don't. But those are specific things I've read online as well. Cognitive dissonance isn't relegated to one end of the political spectrum or the other.
They're tankies, who can't separate leftist thought from their Russophilia and misguided defense of everything Soviet. Essentially, they're Stalinists who make excuses for the bad behavior of Putin, without understanding that Putin doesn't really want to go back to the times of the USSR. He fancies himself more of a Tsar than a General Secretary.
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Are reports true that the USA is not allowing Polish planes to come into Ukraine?
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Are reports true that the USA is not allowing Polish planes to come into Ukraine?
No idea. But you can imagine why the USA would not want that. Poland is a NATO member, and Russia may view the addition of Polish aircraft as a direct attack on Russia. Of course, this is debatable, but Russia would have to draw a line somewhere when it comes to arming their opponents, and if they allow planes, where does the arming end? So, if Russia feels like this is a direct attack from Poland, it will consider itself at war with Poland. That would invoke article five of the NATO treaty and NATO would be at war with Russia. This is, of course, potentially horrific.
Again, be patient. I know it is hard to see people and places bombed in Ukraine. Also, remember that this happens in the world every day, and almost nothing is done to combat it. The Saudis are committing a genocide in Yemen of the Houthi people. There is an ongoing genocide in Ethiopia in the Tigray region by the Eritrean military. The US (via frozen assets) is allowing thousands (or millions) of people to starve to death in Afghanistan. Israel is an apartheid state with little chance of change, Palestine is an outdoor prison. And of course everyone knows about the Uyghur genocide in China. Global human suffering is never ending. Ask yourself why no one seems to care about these other cases of human suffering.
Let the sanctions run their course and allow the Russian people (hopefully) to advocate for leadership change or an end to hostilities.
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No idea. But you can imagine why the USA would not want that. Poland is a NATO member, and Russia may view the addition of Polish aircraft as a direct attack on Russia. Of course, this is debatable, but Russia would have to draw a line somewhere when it comes to arming their opponents, and if they allow planes, where does the arming end? So, if Russia feels like this is a direct attack from Poland, it will consider itself at war with Poland. That would invoke article five of the NATO treaty and NATO would be at war with Russia. This is, of course, potentially horrific.
Again, be patient. I know it is hard to see people and places bombed in Ukraine. Also, remember that this happens in the world every day, and almost nothing is done to combat it. The Saudis are committing a genocide in Yemen of the Houthi people. There is an ongoing genocide in Ethiopia in the Tigray region by the Eritrean military. The US (via frozen assets) is allowing thousands (or millions) of people to starve to death in Afghanistan. Israel is an apartheid state with little chance of change, Palestine is an outdoor prison. And of course everyone knows about the Uyghur genocide in China. Global human suffering is never ending. Ask yourself why no one seems to care about these other cases of human suffering.
Let the sanctions run their course and allow the Russian people (hopefully) to advocate for leadership change or an end to hostilities.
We have not acted in countless genocides with humans and other animals and my take is that it's appalling. We all know why we have done nothing in Africa and other places. Obviously Putin and Xi's aspirations and military might are a grave concern for the Western World.
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We have not acted in countless genocides with humans and other animals and my take is that it's appalling. We all know why we have done nothing in Africa and other places. Obviously Putin and Xi's aspirations and military might are a grave concern for the Western World.
Okay, but let's not make this bad situation worse by starting a world war. It's a bummer, but the world is a bummer, and this is the only one that can currently expand into a wider conflict that could kill millions if it escalates.
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Okay, but let's not make this bad situation worse by starting a world war. It's a bummer, but the world is a bummer, and this is the only one that can currently expand into a wider conflict that could kill millions if it escalates.
I get the hope of Ukranians bleeding Putin dry and a coup within Russia. What is concerning is him starving people to death and cutting off electricity there. I guess my issue is that everyone agrees if he violates article 5 we and NATO have no choice but to engage. He's stated for all intents and purposes Western sanctions are an act of war.
So, assuming he does eventually force millions to leave Ukraine and set up a puppet government why would he be fearful of a military response from NATO/US in Latvia? I think we're a bit obsessed with Article 5 . He will use the Nuclear threat again wouldn't you think?
And by the way, shouldn't he be fearful iof what the US and NATO could do?? Could we make him more fearful now in lieu of us and the West being afraid? Unless the guy is truly suicidal do you really think he wants to enage with us and start a nucleae WW3? This is obviously complex and difficult, again there's no easy answers, but it seems to me there's very little chance he won't directly confront a NATO member even if some of his military is crippled.
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If the russians said she did it, it must be so. They even have video. Ooooh.
Valid point. Also, apparently this all happened 3-weeks ago. She's been detained for 3-weeks already.
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I get the hope of Ukranians bleeding Putin dry and a coup within Russia. What is concerning is him starving and cutting off electricity there. I guess my issue is that everyone agrees that if he violates article 5 we and NATO have no choice but to engage. He's stated for all intents and purposes Western sanctions are an act of war.
So, assuming he does eventually force millions to leave Ukraine and set up a puppet government why would he be fearful of a military response from NATO/US in Latvia? I think we're a bit obsessed with Article 5 . He will use the Nuclear threat again wouldn't you think?
And by the way, shouldn't he be fearful iof what the US and NATO could do?? Could we make him more fearful now in lieu of us and thr West being afraid? Unless the guy is truly suicidal do you really think he wants to enage with us and start a nucleae WW3? This is obviously complex and difficult, again there's no easy answers, but it seems to me there's very little chance he won't directly confront a NATO member even if some of his military is crippled.
Putin routinely talks out of both sides of his mouth. Take anything he SAYS with a grain of salt. Actions are the only thing that matters.
Why do you think he'd attack Latvia? It's a NATO member. Do you understand the difference of declaring war on Ukraine vs declaring war on the entirety of the West? If Russia invaded or atttacked Latvia, NATO would 100% defend.
No. I'm not concerned about what Putin is or is not afraid of. This isn't psychoanalysis. If he wanted WW3, he could have it in an hour. Why would he directly confront NATO? There is zero motivation for him to do this.
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Putin routinely talks out of both sides of his mouth. Take anything he SAYS with a grain of salt. Actions are the only thing that matters.
Why do you think he'd attack Latvia? It's a NATO member. Do you understand the difference of declaring war on Ukraine vs declaring war on the entirety of the West? If Russia invaded or atttacked Latvia, NATO would 100% defend.
No. I'm not concerned about what Putin is or is not afraid of. This isn't psychoanalysis. If he wanted WW3, he could have it in an hour. Why would he directly confront NATO? There is zero motivation for him to do this.
Because he wrote a manifesto stating what he planned to do and they include the Baltics.
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Because he wrote a manifesto stating what he planned to do and they include the Baltics.
And you believed it. He's also stated the opposite. Here, if you've got some time today, give this video a watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZv0-0cx96g
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Gents, keep your personal politics out of this. And Wags, I kept your post, but you have to have known that was going to stir up politics, right?
Fair point. I meant it more as a counter to “who the hell is supporting Russia” and showing that it is even nuttier than imagined. Truthfully wasn’t meant to be a political bomb but I totally get your angle.
Wags didn't include a link to the post (and I didn't bother to research admittedly), so how do you know?
It wasn’t a singular post. It was a post, then replies then clicking on other profiles or related tweets that Twitter shows. I assure you it wasn’t a bot farm. Like Hards and Jesu said, it’s “west bad”/tankie mindset.
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I'll check it out later. Ty.
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And you believed it. He's also stated the opposite. Here, if you've got some time today, give this video a watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZv0-0cx96g
Piggybacking off this, here's a few more good videos:
https://youtu.be/b4wRdoWpw0w
"Failed logistics of Russian invasion"
https://youtu.be/If61baWF4GE
"Why Russia is invading Ukraine "
https://youtu.be/FQ4hvLqNfqo
"Putin will lose, here's why"
https://youtu.be/LJNtfyq3TDE
"Real reason Russia is invading"
Related...
https://youtu.be/VNZ0so0LCoM
"Here's what happens if China invades Taiwan"
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Not surprising, US negotiating with Venezuela to try and find a way to get to a common ground to end sanctions.
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/us-officials-travel-venezuela-russian-ally-talks-source-2022-03-06/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/us-officials-travel-venezuela-russian-ally-talks-source-2022-03-06/)
Similar efforts with Iran. They are the only two nations that could fill the gap for oil and gas if Russian oil/gas is off the table.
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Not surprising, US negotiating with Venezuela to try and find a way to get to a common ground to end sanctions.
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/us-officials-travel-venezuela-russian-ally-talks-source-2022-03-06/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/us-officials-travel-venezuela-russian-ally-talks-source-2022-03-06/)
Similar efforts with Iran. They are the only two nations that could fill the gap for oil and gas if Russian oil/gas is off the table.
The Iran one is weird because it sounds like they have a deal all sides can live with except we'll 'um Russia.
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And you believed it. He's also stated the opposite. Here, if you've got some time today, give this video a watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZv0-0cx96g
While he's trying to lay this out from various points of view, for the most part this is speculative with a few additional angles that we haven't discussed. The only conclusions he draws are the obvious regardless of the three particular political sides he covers fairly well.
I do think the paramilitary groups within Ukraine is important and has been pretty much left out of the media. Depending on what happens it could turn into a total nightmare somewhat in the mold of Afghanistan. He also rightly states that getting rid of Putin doesn't change the nature of our issues with Russia. Although I'm pretty confident any alternative would be better.
He also made a comment about bringing "back" proxy wars which many would argue haven't gone anywhere. In general, while I thought the video was informative, it's more or less a synopsis of various possibilities and that no one knows if Putin is crazy or what his actual strategy is for the future. He never really postulates whether a stronger or weaker response from the USA and Europe would be the best course of action in averting everyone's main concern. Nor does he emphasize Putin's stated ambitions the past 20 years and more recently. Ty for sharing.
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Not surprising, US negotiating with Venezuela to try and find a way to get to a common ground to end sanctions.
https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/us-officials-travel-venezuela-russian-ally-talks-source-2022-03-06/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/us-officials-travel-venezuela-russian-ally-talks-source-2022-03-06/)
Similar efforts with Iran. They are the only two nations that could fill the gap for oil and gas if Russian oil/gas is off the table.
It'd be about time we ended sanctions on those two countries... Cuba too.
The sanctions we put on Russia will only increase the pressure on Venezuela.
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It'd be about time we ended sanctions on those two countries... Cuba too.
The sanctions we put on Russia will only increase the pressure on Venezuela.
China becoming more aligned with Russia isn't a good result. I think they will play a role on their banking system. There's also the weird dynamic of negotiating this Iran deal with Russia. We have pressing concerns Hands and we all know the bigger ramifications from this mess. I think we just disagree about the best way to maintain a worldwide balance of power.
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China becoming more aligned with Russia isn't a good result. I think they will play a role on their banking system. There's also the weird dynamic of negotiating this Iran deal with Russia. We have pressing concerns Hands and we all know the bigger ramifications from this mess. I think we just disagree about the best way to maintain a worldwide balance of power.
How is China becoming more aligned with Russia? Honest question.
They're just being China and not taking a side. Same thing as the last few decades.
There is no balance of power. The US is at the top without any true competitor. You can say China, but without the US, China's economy would crumble. Their military is vastly inferior despite larger numbers.
The worldwide reserve currency is still the dollar, and will be for the foreseeable future. Russia's GDP is 11th worldwide. And after this conflict it will tumble even further.
I think you're far too concerned with the US losing global hegemony. It's not happening any time soon.
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How is China becoming more aligned with Russia? Honest question.
They're just being China and not taking a side. Same thing as the last few decades.
There is no balance of power. The US is at the top without any true competitor. You can say China, but without the US, China's economy would crumble. Their military is vastly inferior despite larger numbers.
The worldwide reserve currency is still the dollar, and will be for the foreseeable future. Russia's GDP is 11th worldwide. And after this conflict it will tumble even further.
I think you're far too concerned with the US losing global hegemony. It's not happening any time soon.
An argument can be made that without China, the US economy would crumble. The two economies are intricately connected.
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There's also the weird dynamic of negotiating this Iran deal with Russia.
The Iran one is weird because it sounds like they have a deal all sides can live with except we'll 'um Russia.
I was unaware of this aspect, but reading up on it, it does make some sense that they are included in negotiations.
It appears Russia is essential for the collection and conversion of nuclear materials, and conversion of a nuclear facility that could be used for weapons, to one for research only.
By that alone, they kind of need to be part of the negotiations.
Their request/demand is also not that unusual, but extremely awkward. They want written assurance, that trade between Iran and Russia will not be subject to current Ukraine sanctions. Essentially saying Iran cannot be punished for trading with Russia.
Super awkward, because the motivating force of the renewed Iran deal is to cut off Russia...but apparently Russia is essential to any deal being done...so why would they take part in a deal that asks them to play an essential role, but also hurts them. Very weird scenario.
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An argument can be made that without China, the US economy would crumble. The two economies are intricately connected.
100% They're in an economically symbiotic relationship.
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An argument can be made that without China, the US economy would crumble. The two economies are intricately connected.
Ehh depends. I think the amount of US debt that China owns factors, but if you remove the cheap manufacturing from China, costs rise and there would be shock in the production/logistic channels, but the economy wouldn’t crumble. There are alternatives.
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100% They're in an economically symbiotic relationship.
It is the best way to cultivate a lasting peace with an adversary. Germany tried this with Russia, too, leading to dependence on RU for gas/energy.
It doesn't always work, but it builds a common ground from which to form a relationship.
Edit: I said "best way" and I'm talking out of my ass on that one with regards to foreign policy. It's one of the ways, and it works well in business.
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MiG 29s from Poland to Ukraine, F-16s from U.S. to Poland for repayment, supposedly.
Blinken says NATO countries have "green light" to send fighter jets to Ukraine
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-russia-war-fighter-jets-antony-blinken-face-the-nation/
Washington — Secretary of State Antony Blinken said Sunday that NATO members have the go-ahead to send fighter jets to Ukraine as the U.S. and allies continue their efforts to help Ukraine defend itself against Russia's invasion.
"That gets a green-light," Blinken said in an interview with "Face the Nation" when asked whether the Polish government, a member of NATO, could send fighter planes to Ukraine. "In fact, we're talking with our Polish friends right now about what we might be able to do to backfill their needs if in fact they choose to provide these fighter jets to the Ukrainians. What can we do? How can we help to make sure that they get something to backfill the planes that they are handing over to the Ukrainians?"
A White House spokesperson told CBS News the Biden administration is evaluating the capabilities it could provide to backfill jets to Poland if it decided to transfer planes to Ukraine but noted there are several questions that arise from a decision to do so, including how the jets could be transferred from Poland to Ukraine.
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MiG 29s from Poland to Ukraine, F-16s from U.S. to Poland for repayment, supposedly.
Blinken says NATO countries have "green light" to send fighter jets to Ukraine
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-russia-war-fighter-jets-antony-blinken-face-the-nation/
Washington — Secretary of State Antony Blinken said Sunday that NATO members have the go-ahead to send fighter jets to Ukraine as the U.S. and allies continue their efforts to help Ukraine defend itself against Russia's invasion.
"That gets a green-light," Blinken said in an interview with "Face the Nation" when asked whether the Polish government, a member of NATO, could send fighter planes to Ukraine. "In fact, we're talking with our Polish friends right now about what we might be able to do to backfill their needs if in fact they choose to provide these fighter jets to the Ukrainians. What can we do? How can we help to make sure that they get something to backfill the planes that they are handing over to the Ukrainians?"
A White House spokesperson told CBS News the Biden administration is evaluating the capabilities it could provide to backfill jets to Poland if it decided to transfer planes to Ukraine but noted there are several questions that arise from a decision to do so, including how the jets could be transferred from Poland to Ukraine.
Very provocative, but Ukraine desperately needs help.
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Boris Johnson in an NYTimes Opinion piece lays out the next steps for the West
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/06/opinion/boris-johnson-russia-putin-ukraine-war.html
1. First, we must mobilize an international humanitarian coalition (Plan to absorb refugees from Ukraine)
2. Second, we must do more to help Ukraine to defend itself (Provide weapons to Ukraine)
3. Third, we must maximize the economic pressure on Mr. Putin’s regime (Sanctions)
4. Fourth, no matter how long it takes, we must prevent any creeping normalization of what Russia does in Ukraine (?)
5. Fifth, we should always be open to diplomacy and de-escalation (Negotiate so that Russia doesn't get mad about #6)
6. Sixth, we must act now to strengthen Euro-Atlantic security (Expand NATO and further militarize Europe)
It's nice that Johnson acknowledges US leadership during this crisis. Seems like the good guys are bonding over this thing.
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I will say that I never imagined how inept the Russian military appears.
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I will say that I never imagined how inept the Russian military appears.
He’s outsourcing.
WSJ is reporting that the Russians want to bring in Syrian Mercenaries
https://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-recruiting-syrians-for-urban-combat-in-ukraine-u-s-officials-say-11646606234
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I was unaware of this aspect, but reading up on it, it does make some sense that they are included in negotiations.
It appears Russia is essential for the collection and conversion of nuclear materials, and conversion of a nuclear facility that could be used for weapons, to one for research only.
By that alone, they kind of need to be part of the negotiations.
Their request/demand is also not that unusual, but extremely awkward. They want written assurance, that trade between Iran and Russia will not be subject to current Ukraine sanctions. Essentially saying Iran cannot be punished for trading with Russia.
Super awkward, because the motivating force of the renewed Iran deal is to cut off Russia...but apparently Russia is essential to any deal being done...so why would they take part in a deal that asks them to play an essential role, but also hurts them. Very weird scenario.
I'm kind of thinking "just sign the deal" and afterwards the Iranians won't add any sanctions on Russia per the deal but don't buy anything from Russia either, under the "we just don't need anything right now" label.
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Boris Johnson in an NYTimes Opinion piece lays out the next steps for the West
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/06/opinion/boris-johnson-russia-putin-ukraine-war.html
1. First, we must mobilize an international humanitarian coalition (Plan to absorb refugees from Ukraine)
2. Second, we must do more to help Ukraine to defend itself (Provide weapons to Ukraine)
3. Third, we must maximize the economic pressure on Mr. Putin’s regime (Sanctions)
4. Fourth, no matter how long it takes, we must prevent any creeping normalization of what Russia does in Ukraine (?)
5. Fifth, we should always be open to diplomacy and de-escalation (Negotiate so that Russia doesn't get mad about #6)
6. Sixth, we must act now to strengthen Euro-Atlantic security (Expand NATO and further militarize Europe)
It's nice that Johnson acknowledges US leadership during this crisis. Seems like the good guys are bonding over this thing.
The Atlantic had a lengthy article on Johnson last year and he came off way less of a clown than previous appearances.
I never realized he had dual citizenship with the US until recently. He had to give up his US to resolve an issue of not paying some taxes.
He's still wrong on Brexit.,.............
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I will say that I never imagined how inept the Russian military appears.
I haven't seen any stories to support this idea, but my spidey senses suspect that we and other western allies may have more to do with that than has been reported. Satellite targeting, more and better weapons being sent that have been reported, covert cyber warfare, perhaps remote drone piloting, etc.
Russian unnatural carnal knowledgeers continue to pretend to allow civilians to evacuate only to bomb them as they try to do so. I hope we are helping Ukraine counter-target Russian artillery.
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I haven't seen any stories to support this idea, but my spidey senses suspect that we and other western allies may have more to do with that than has been reported. Satellite targeting, more and better weapons being sent that have been reported, covert cyber warfare, perhaps remote drone piloting, etc.
Russian unnatural carnal knowledgeers continue to pretend to allow civilians to evacuate only to bomb them as they try to do so. I hope we are helping Ukraine counter-target Russian artillery.
Has to be related to Western data provided, as I saw a blurb this morning, that Ukraine may have blown up 30 (out of 55) Russian helicopters overnight sitting on an airfield near Kherson.
The quantity is totally unconfirmed and it may really be zero, but there definitely was an counter attack.
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Perhaps wishful thinking, but a case for how the invasion of Ukraine signals the beginning of the end of the Putin regime, in the same way the invasion of Afghanistan was for the USSR.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/vladimir-putins-panicked-panicked-crackdown-in-russia-shows-hes-on-the-way-out?ref=home
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I haven't seen any stories to support this idea, but my spidey senses suspect that we and other western allies may have more to do with that than has been reported. Satellite targeting, more and better weapons being sent that have been reported, covert cyber warfare, perhaps remote drone piloting, etc.
I have seen some reports that the Russian supply convoy North of Kyiv is literally stuck in the mud and hasn't really moved for more than a week and may be pretty much completely incapacitated. But it's always hard to know what the truth is. I saw one estimate that as much as 1/5 of the Russian invading force is bogged down in that 40 mile traffic jam that isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future.
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I have seen some reports that the Russian supply convoy North of Kyiv is literally stuck in the mud and hasn't really moved for more than a week and may be pretty much completely incapacitated. But it's always hard to know what the truth is. I saw one estimate that as much as 1/5 of the Russian invading force is bogged down in that 40 mile traffic jam that isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future.
The mud in this part of the world has been an issue for several invading armies who famously did not have a good time. Those typically were heading east, not west, but mud don't care I suppose.
The surprising thing to me is that this was surprising to the Russians... who one would think have been familiar with this quirk of the geography of the battlespace.
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Perhaps wishful thinking, but a case for how the invasion of Ukraine signals the beginning of the end of the Putin regime, in the same way the invasion of Afghanistan was for the USSR.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/vladimir-putins-panicked-panicked-crackdown-in-russia-shows-hes-on-the-way-out?ref=home
I'd like this to be the case, but worry it is more wishful thinking than fact.
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The mud in this part of the world has been an issue for several invading armies who famously did not have a good time. Those typically were heading east, not west, but mud don't care I suppose.
The surprising thing to me is that this was surprising to the Russians... who one would think have been familiar with this quirk of the geography of the battlespace.
I learned the mud even has a name -- Rasputitsa (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasputitsa). I saw one thing that said that Ukraine intentionally flooded the area last week which may make it even more difficult for the Russians to progress. The convoy has stalled and the Russians kept coming and coming and now it's very densely packed in and very difficult to move. Ukraine has been attacking the front of the column a bit making it hard to get going, but has not attacked the rest of the column due to likely defenses.
On this topic: I can't vouch for this guy (https://chicagoboyz.net/archives/67331.html#more-67331) but I found this interesting reading.
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The mud in this part of the world has been an issue for several invading armies who famously did not have a good time. Those typically were heading east, not west, but mud don't care I suppose.
The surprising thing to me is that this was surprising to the Russians... who one would think have been familiar with this quirk of the geography of the battlespace.
Russia should have read this great WaPo piece last month. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2022/ukraine-russia-invasion-geography-weather/
Regarding the Pinsk Marshes, where Russia is held up North of Kiev:
To Ukraine’s north span roughly 100,000 square miles of wetlands known as the Pinsk Marshes. Here is one place the cold could really play a role. During the winter, these mucky flatlands freeze over, providing a more stable terrain for heavy military vehicles that would otherwise get stuck in the mud.
Experts say the frozen ground, usually present in February, could provide Russian troops with the best window to cross into Ukraine. While more roads have recently been built throughout the marshes, traversing the open terrain would be strategically important.
“Those fields become critical because you can’t risk bottlenecks on a roadway,” said Seth G. Jones, senior vice president at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS). “You run into real problems on very muddy terrain in the March-April time frame.”
Historically the marshes have been an obstacle to forces. But muddy landscape might not be a deciding factor this time around, according to a written analysis by the Center for Naval Analyses Russia Studies Program (CNA) in response to questions from The Washington Post. “While these marshes were flagged as a potential hazard for Western forces fighting a hypothetical war in the U.S.S.R. and considered ‘impassible except during winter,’ Russian troops have long proved quite adept at handling marsh and swamp terrain.”
During World War II, the marshes posed a challenge to German forces invading during Operation Barbarossa.
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Perhaps wishful thinking, but a case for how the invasion of Ukraine signals the beginning of the end of the Putin regime, in the same way the invasion of Afghanistan was for the USSR.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/vladimir-putins-panicked-panicked-crackdown-in-russia-shows-hes-on-the-way-out?ref=home
The only thing scarier than Putin running Russia is a rudderless Russia with 6000 nuclear warheads to take care of.
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I have seen some reports that the Russian supply convoy North of Kyiv is literally stuck in the mud and hasn't really moved for more than a week and may be pretty much completely incapacitated. But it's always hard to know what the truth is. I saw one estimate that as much as 1/5 of the Russian invading force is bogged down in that 40 mile traffic jam that isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future.
I would hope that the Bayraktars would be taking care of such a target rich environment.
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I haven't seen any stories to support this idea, but my spidey senses suspect that we and other western allies may have more to do with that than has been reported. Satellite targeting, more and better weapons being sent that have been reported, covert cyber warfare, perhaps remote drone piloting, etc.
Russian unnatural carnal knowledgeers continue to pretend to allow civilians to evacuate only to bomb them as they try to do so. I hope we are helping Ukraine counter-target Russian artillery.
There is a NATO AWAC plane constantly circling just outside the Ukraine boarder. Also a US plane flying at 54k feet. I am guessing that some of their communication gets "intercepted" by Ukrainian military.
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The only thing scarier than Putin running Russia is a rudderless Russia with 6000 nuclear warheads to take care of.
The Atlantic ran this article 7 years ago. Food for thought at that time.
A Russia After Putin
Even if the president reappears, his absence reveals the chilling degree to which he has consolidated power in the country.
By Matt Schiavenza
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/03/a-russia-after-putin/387814/
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There is a NATO AWAC plane constantly circling just outside the Ukraine boarder. Also a US plane flying at 54k feet. I am guessing that some of their communication gets "intercepted" by Ukrainian military.
The US has admitted that it is providing information to the Ukrainian military.
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Best theory I read today is Russia is doing all of this KNOWING they will be cutoff and isolated, which will give credibility and power to all the Bitcoin Putin and the oligarchs have...thus bringing the fall of Western banking and shifting power to BTC and other Crypto. 4D Chess I tell you
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Russia should have read this great WaPo piece last month. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2022/ukraine-russia-invasion-geography-weather/
Regarding the Pinsk Marshes, where Russia is held up North of Kiev:
Hey, my daughter is from those marshes in Belarus.
No kidding. She is
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Best theory I read today is Russia is doing all of this KNOWING they will be cutoff and isolated, which will give credibility and power to all the Bitcoin Putin and the oligarchs have...thus bringing the fall of Western banking and shifting power to BTC and other Crypto. 4D Chess I tell you
Was Matt Damon pushing this theory?
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Was Matt Damon pushing this theory?
Ron Watkins.
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Was Matt Damon pushing this theory?
Funny enough I read somewhere that Damon doesn’t really know anything about Crypto and didn’t look into much, just happily took the huge bag of money Crypto.com threw at him. Which could be problematic as supposedly, despite the huge war chest they have, it’s one of the more tenuous/problematic exchanges that could have a rocky future
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Very provocative, but Ukraine desperately needs help.
DOA
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Ban on Russian oil in the US. Allegedly, we only import 5% in the US, yet prices are exceeding that by a lot.
We need energy independence in the US. Nuclear, temporary natural gas increases, solar/wind where appropriate. And need to work on advanced energy production methods
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Ban on Russian oil in the US. Allegedly, we only import 5% in the US, yet prices are exceeding that by a lot.
Mostly a symbolic move, but maybe it will give European leadership a push to do the same. Such a move would be a lot more financially painful there.
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I guess $8.9 Billion profit per Qtr isn't enough ! ! ! :-[
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Hey, my daughter is from those marshes in Belarus.
No kidding. She is
I have two stories about Belarus.
My wife is from Bialystok, Poland just under an hour from the Belarus border.
The shopping mall parking lot is always loaded with license plates from Belarus and you can even catch some from Russia. They come to Poland to load up on the things they can't get in their countries or things that are way less expensive.
Grodno, Belarus is about 1.5 hours from Bialystok. It's Hrodna in Polish and was actually part of Poland, well basically forever, until the Soviets eff'd that up after WWII. They offer day bus trips from Bialystok and you just need a one day visitation visa which is easy to obtain with a Polish passport. Grodno supposedly has a nice old town and it's an intriguing visit to another country. My father-in-law set up a bus trip for himself, my wife and kids. The bus gets to the border and my older daughter F'd up. She took her US Passport and left her Polish Passport back at my in-laws. My wife doesn't know why she didn't check to make sure everyone had their Polish passports before leaving. They wouldn't let her in. My younger daughter has PTSD now as she said the Belarus border guards where as scary as old Soviet ones. They joked of ripping up by kids US Passport. My wife almost lost it when my father-in-law decided it was 1985 and tried to grease some palms. They had to get off the bus. They ended up hitchhiking a ride to the nearest town and catch a public bus back to Bialystok. (Apparently a lot of Poles who live near the border go to Belarus to fill up because the gas is cheap as it's subsidized by Russia.)
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Ban on Russian oil in the US. Allegedly, we only import 5% in the US, yet prices are exceeding that by a lot.
We need energy independence in the US. Nuclear, temporary natural gas increases, solar/wind where appropriate. And need to work on advanced energy production methods
I saw a meme this morning that read "The cost of wind power has risen this much since Russia invaded Ukraine." Then it reads "$0.00".
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We need energy independence in the US. Nuclear, temporary natural gas increases, solar/wind where appropriate. And need to work on advanced energy production methods
It depends on how one defines energy independence, overall the US is just not oil, haven't been in many decades. I read that with the oil sands boom we only need to import about 35% of our oil which is a big improvement but...
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It depends on how one defines energy independence, overall the US is just not oil, haven't been in many decades. I read that with the oil sands boom we only need to import about 35% of our oil which is a big improvement but...
I define it as the US creating all energy needs within our own borders. Importing nothing.
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^ Not in our lifetimes but agree that would be a good goal.
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It sounds like Poland is going to deploy MIG-29's. They may be outdated but this could be very significant. What I am a little confused about is Zalenskky apparently announced today Ukraine will not seek NATO membership.
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What I am a little confused about is Zalenskky apparently announced today Ukraine will not seek NATO membership.
I haven't seen exactly what he said, but they wouldn't be getting in anytime in the near future anyway.
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I haven't seen exactly what he said, but they wouldn't be getting in anytime in the near future anyway.
They never had a chance of being part of NATO. I suppose this is way of feeling out Putin and whether this would make him back off. To me though, since his been begging for a no-fly-zone, and is apparently getting MIG-29's from Poland, it would seem he's convinced there's no way to get through to Putin diplomatically.
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They never had a chance of being part of NATO. I suppose this is way of feeling out Putin and whether this would make him back off. To me though, since his been begging for a no-fly-zone, and is apparently getting MIG-29's from Poland, it would seem he's convinced there's no way to get through to Putin diplomatically.
Yeah, one of the requirements for membership is no boarder disputes. Crimea alone prohibits membership.
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They never had a chance of being part of NATO. I suppose this is way of feeling out Putin and whether this would make him back off. To me though, since his been begging for a no-fly-zone, and is apparently getting MIG-29's from Poland, it would seem he's convinced there's no way to get through to Putin diplomatically.
What does this mean to you? Be specific
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What does this mean to you? Be specific
(https://i.etsystatic.com/15108743/r/il/ec0385/1442925375/il_fullxfull.1442925375_svip.jpg)
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What does this mean to you? Be specific
That Putin was never provoked with the narrative or "threat" that Ukraine was moving towards becoming a NATO member.
As far as the no fly zone or the report that the Poles will supply MIG-29's, I understand the guy is delusional and has Nukes. But the fact is Ukraine is defending themselves with Javelins and Stingers. Does he not know where these missles are coming from? Can he not threaten us and NATO with nuclear weapons regardless if Ukraine gets fighter jets?
Zelenskyy absolutely believes that with more air power and support his country will win this war. That's why he is begging for more weapons and air support along with other obvious reasons. I understand this is complex and risky. This isn't black and white and we have really no idea what this madman is thinking right now. But we do know what he did in Grozny and Alleppo. My overall point is if he uses nuclear weapons it can be justified in his evil brain now even without more NATO or USA involvement.
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(https://i.etsystatic.com/15108743/r/il/ec0385/1442925375/il_fullxfull.1442925375_svip.jpg)
Those were the worst for handjobs back in high school.
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That Putin was never provoked with the narrative or "threat" that Ukraine was moving towards becoming a NATO member.
As far as the no fly zone or the report that the Poles will supply MIG-29's, I understand the guy is delusional and has Nukes. But the fact is Ukraine is defending themselves with Javelins and Stingers. Does he not know where these missles are coming from? Can he not threaten us and NATO with nuclear weapons regardless if Ukraine gets fighter jets?
Zelenskyy absolutely believes that with more air power and support his country will win this war. That's why he is begging for more weapons and air support along with other obvious reasons. I understand this is complex and risky. This isn't black and white and we have really no idea what this madman is thinking right now. But we do know what he did in Grozny and Alleppo. My overall point is if he uses nuclear weapons it can be justified in his evil brain now even without more NATO or USA involvement.
What does "no fly zone" mean to you? Define it.
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What does "no fly zone" mean to you? Define it.
NATO forces defending Ukrainians skies from continued Russian air assaults. But in essence it's a proxy war right now and if they get the MIGS it will be even more direct involvement from NATO. Whether they get there from Poland or a US airbase in Germany.
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NATO forces defending Ukrainians skies from continued Russian air assaults. But in essence it's a proxy war right now and if they get the MIGS it will be even more direct involvement from NATO. Whether they get there from Poland or a US airbase in Germany.
So you agree that it means non-Ukranian forces shooting down Russian planes?
That's world war 3. That's nuclear war.
Stop with these RIDICULOUS suggestions.
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So you agree that it means non-Ukranian forces shooting down Russian planes?
That's world war 3. That's nuclear war.
Stop with these RIDICULOUS suggestions.
I'm not suggesting it per se, I'm saying having our missiles and perhaps MIG-29'S there mean we're already involved and it "could lead to WW3". Do you really think he wants nuclear war? Do you agree that if Putin attacks the Baltics NATO will defend their air space?
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Those were the worst for handjobs back in high school.
I’m sure your hands got beat up by those button flys.
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I'm not suggesting it per se, I'm saying having our missiles and perhaps MIG-29'S there mean we're already involved and it "could lead to WW3". Do you really think he wants nuclear war? Do you agree that if Putin attacks the Baltics NATO will defend their air space?
Do you understand what being a NATO member means?
Come on Mugs
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I'm not suggesting it per se, I'm saying having our missiles and perhaps MIG-29'S there mean we're already involved and it "could lead to WW3". Do you really think he wants nuclear war? Do you agree that if Putin attacks the Baltics NATO will defend their air space?
Everyone knows we supply arms. We can do that and Putin can “save face” by pretending we’re not actually involved. But if we shoot down a Russian jet…we’ll that’s a whole different situation. There’s no saving face there. Actually shooting a Russian is very different than giving a Ukrainian a gun. Surely you see that.
And if Putin does attack a NATO country, yes, we’re probably looking at WWIII and potentially nuclear war.
If you’re asking if there is a risk that Putin will lob a nuke because we’re aiding the Ukrainians…we’ll yes, there’s a risk. I think the risk is exponentially higher if we join the shooting war. This is true even if we assume that Putin doesn’t “want” a nuclear war.
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Everyone knows we supply arms. We can do that and Putin can “save face” by pretending we’re not actually involved. But if we shoot down a Russian jet…we’ll that’s a whole different situation. There’s no saving face there. Actually shooting a Russian is very different than giving a Ukrainian a gun. Surely you see that.
And if Putin does attack a NATO country, yes, we’re probably looking at WWIII and potentially nuclear war.
So if the Ukrainian pilots get the MIG-29's, and shoot Russian planes down, is that also a different situation? Even if they come from a US airbase? And if a non US NATO enforced a no-fly-zone is that also a different situation? There are some that believe it's not in Europe's best interest to have 4 million Ukrainian refugees and Russia controlling their country.
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So if the Ukrainian pilots get the MIG-29's, and shoot Russian planes down, is that also a different situation? Even if they come from a US airbase? And if a non US NATO enforced a no-fly-zone is that also a different situation? There are some that believe it's not in Europe's best interest to have 4 million Ukrainian refugees and Russia controlling their country.
Yes, it's different. BECAUSE IT'S UKRANIANS SHOOTING THE RUSSIANS!
Yes, it's different. BECAUSE IT'S NATO SHOOTING THE RUSSIANS!
jfc
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So if the Ukrainian pilots get the MIG-29's, and shoot Russian planes down, is that also a different situation? Even if they come from a US airbase? And if a non US NATO enforced a no-fly-zone is that also a different situation? There are some that believe it's not in Europe's best interest to have 4 million Ukrainian refugees and Russia controlling their country.
Yes. That’s a different situation. Very. Are you seriously having trouble seeing that. Obviously it’s more provocative than being uninvolved, but it’s far short of actually shooting a Russian jet down yourself. It’s a diplomatic distinction that is well recognized and established. Sure, it might set Putin off, but I can pretty much guarantee that shooting down a Russian jet would set him off.
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Everyone knows we supply arms. We can do that and Putin can “save face” by pretending we’re not actually involved. But if we shoot down a Russian jet…we’ll that’s a whole different situation. There’s no saving face there. Actually shooting a Russian is very different than giving a Ukrainian a gun. Surely you see that.
And if Putin does attack a NATO country, yes, we’re probably looking at WWIII and potentially nuclear war.
If you’re asking if there is a risk that Putin will lob a nuke because we’re aiding the Ukrainians…we’ll yes, there’s a risk. I think the risk is exponentially higher if we join the shooting war. This is true even if we assume that Putin doesn’t “want” a nuclear war.
Not a rhetorical question ... if we let fear of Putin lobbing a nuke dictate our policy relative to Ukraine, why would it not dictate our policy relative to Poland or the Baltics or Romania?
Is nuclear war more tolerable in the latter instance?
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Do you understand what being a NATO member means?
Come on Mugs
And you understand that Ukraine has 44 million people and is next door to Poland? I assume you also understand he has designs for the old Soviet Empire? Let's say he was drunk and attacked the wonderful country of Iceland who essentially doesn't have a military? We would protect the Icelandic people because they are NATO members, correct? All I'm saying is there is there are many factors to consider in addition to Ukraine not being a NATO member.
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Maybe the solution comes from WWII.
https://medium.com/lessons-from-history/why-britain-pulled-aircraft-with-horses-and-trucks-ddd2dbd2aaa4#:~:text=To%20circumnavigate%20US%20neutrality%20act%20Britain%20took%20delivery,their%20fields.%20Today%20is%20not%20a%20typical%20day.
(https://miro.medium.com/max/875/0*eSaF4Th4vDF52F1i.jpg)
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And you understand that Ukraine has 44 million people and is next door to Poland? I assume you also understand he has designs for the old Soviet Empire? Let's say he was drunk and attacked the wonderful country of Iceland who essentially doesn't have a military? We would protect the Icelandic people because they are NATO members, correct? All I'm saying is there is there are many factors to consider in addition to Ukraine not being a NATO member.
No. In this situation as it stands today, we cannot get directly involved either as solely US or as NATO. Period. Any breach of that is a step towards nuclear war.
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Not a rhetorical question ... if we let fear of Putin lobbing a nuke dictate our policy relative to Ukraine, why would it not dictate our policy relative to Poland or the Baltics or Romania?
Is nuclear war more tolerable in the latter instance?
Is nuclear war ever tolerable?
The easy-out answer is that once instance is NATO and one isn't.
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Not a rhetorical question ... if we let fear of Putin lobbing a nuke dictate our policy relative to Ukraine, why would it not dictate our policy relative to Poland or the Baltics or Romania?
Is nuclear war more tolerable in the latter instance?
Exactly. That's essentially my point, ty Pakuni. Is it conceivable he's scared crapless of the USA getting involved and has no other card other than the Nuke threat? If it starts to get ugly and he carpet and vacuum bombs Ukraine what exactly should the response be of the West and the United States?
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There are some that believe it's not in Europe's best interest to have 4 million Ukrainian refugees and Russia controlling their country.
Everyone but Russia believes that. That doesn't mean the correct answer is to start a direct war with Russia. It may be the correct answer, but the refugee crisis doesn't mean that it is. 4 million refugees is better than 4 billion dead in a nuclear war.
I don't actually know how I feel about a no fly zone, I go back and forth. I just don't like logical fallacies
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No. In this situation as it stands today, we cannot get directly involved either as solely US or as NATO. Period. Any breach of that is a step towards nuclear war.
Okay...fine. Now does it make any sense to get our oil and gas from Venezuela or Saudi Arabia or should we move towards energy independence with Europe tomorrow by drilling and reopening nuclear facilities?
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I hope the Russians love their children too….
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Everyone but Russia believes that. That doesn't mean the correct answer is to start a direct war with Russia. It may be the correct answer, but the refugee crisis doesn't mean that it is. 4 million refugees is better than 4 billion dead in a nuclear war.
4 billion dead....hmm. That's what will happen if we engage Putin at all during this war? But if we wait and allow him to do whatever he wants, he won't attack Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary Romania, etc?
I don't actually know how I feel about a no fly zone, I go back and forth. I just don't like logical fallacies
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Is nuclear war ever tolerable?
The easy-out answer is that once instance is NATO and one isn't.
Sure, but the nuclear threat is the same either way. It's probably much greater with NATO, as Putin must know he can't win or survive that conventional war.
I'm not advocating for direct US Intervention here, at least not yet I'm legitimately torn on it. But I don’t think our actions need be entirely dictated by a fear that Putin and his regime suddenly decide to become suicide bombers. They want wealth and power, not 72 virgins.
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4 billion dead....hmm. That's what will happen if we engage Putin at all during this war? But if we wait and allow him to do whatever he wants, he won't attack Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary Romania, etc?
Even taking the nuclear piece off the table for a second, don't forget that a broader war with Russia would certainly spill into at least some of those places, and likely cause as much damage as if Putin had invaded them directly. So I don't think its a sure thing that we're doing those countries a huge favor by drawing a military red line against Putin now for fear of what else he might do.
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Sure, but the nuclear threat is the same either way. It's probably much greater with NATO, as Putin must know he can't win or survive that conventional war.
I'm not advocating for direct US Intervention here, at least not yet I'm legitimately torn on it. But I don’t think our actions need be entirely dictated by a fear that Putin and his regime suddenly decude to become suicide bombers. They want wealth and power, not 72 virgins.
Fair enough. Although I had a dream we annexed Russia.
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Okay...fine. Now does it make any sense to get our oil and gas from Venezuela or Saudi Arabia or should we move towards energy independence with Europe tomorrow by drilling and reopening nuclear facilities?
We should get our oil, in the immediate future, from wherever we can to make it marginally better for US citizens at the gas pumps (and with home heating).
In the shorter term, we increase production as able and use natural gas (over coal). In the longer term, focus on renewables and nuclear as well as developing advanced energy generation methods.
If the goal is energy independence, and the only path forward one sees is to increase domestic drilling/production, then it would require nationalizing the sector otherwise we're no better with regards to independence or pricing for citizens.
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Even taking the nuclear piece off the table for a second, don't forget that a broader war with Russia would certainly spill into at least some of those places, and likely cause as much damage as if Putin had invaded them directly. So I don't think its a sure thing that we're doing those countries a huge favor by drawing a military red line against Putin now for fear of what else he might do.
Agreed. Especially with 4 million Ukrainian refugees in various countries. Do people really think Poland is comfortable with this red line? Apparently they aren't scared of moving the needle to help Ukraine defend themselves.
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Okay...fine. Now does it make any sense to get our oil and gas from Venezuela or Saudi Arabia or should we move towards energy independence with Europe tomorrow by drilling and reopening nuclear facilities?
As the administration pointed out, there are over 9,000 oil & gas drilling permits sitting unused right now. Nothing is stopping the energy companies from using them. It doesn't, however, help much in the short term as it can take a year to bring new fields online. So short term, we don't have a lot of good options beyond the Saudis or Iran or Venezuela.
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As the administration pointed out, there are over 9,000 oil & gas drilling permits sitting unused right now. Nothing is stopping the energy companies from using them. It doesn't, however, help much in the short term as it can take a year to bring new fields online. So short term, we don't have a lot of good options beyond the Saudis or Iran or Venezuela.
Aren't there government regulations stopping them?
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And you understand that Ukraine has 44 million people and is next door to Poland? I assume you also understand he has designs for the old Soviet Empire? Let's say he was drunk and attacked the wonderful country of Iceland who essentially doesn't have a military? We would protect the Icelandic people because they are NATO members, correct? All I'm saying is there is there are many factors to consider in addition to Ukraine not being a NATO member.
Can we stop this? I get that you hate Putin and he’s a pretty objectively vile dictator, but he’s not some drunken unhinged lunatic who has bombed places with on a whim. He’s not Kim Jong with legitimate power. He and his cabal are calculated and looking for a return to Tsarist Russia. Not looking to lob bombs and missles indiscriminately
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Can we stop this? I get that you hate Putin and he’s a pretty objectively vile dictator, but he’s not some drunken unhinged lunatic who has bombed places with on a whim. He’s not Kim Jong with legitimate power. He and his cabal are calculated and looking for a return to Tsarist Russia. Not looking to lob bombs and missles indiscriminately
Okay. I think that's perhaps true. Tsarist Russia includes the Baltics and former bloc countries, correct? As Pakumi stated what is the advantage and why is it a nuclear deterrent to wait for Ukraine to be potentially slaughtered and millions of their people to flee?
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4 billion dead....hmm. That's what will happen if we engage Putin at all during this war? But if we wait and allow him to do whatever he wants, he won't attack Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary Romania, etc?
I don't know what will happen. Just explaining why your point about 4 million refugees doesn't mean that the correct answer is direct conflict with the Russians.
I'm not convinced that Putin's victory in Ukraine would result in him attacking any other countries. I'm also not convinced that a no-fly zone over Ukraine would result in nuclear war.
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Aren't there government regulations stopping them?
They are approved, permitted leases. There are additional regulatory steps along the way, but the issue is that it can take a year or more to get a field into production, and that doesn't even include determining whether there is enough extractible oil & gas on a lease to make drilling financially viable.
That's why in the short run the only solution is to get in bed with odious and morally questionable regimes who, for the moment at least--aren't invading sovereign countries and murdering their citizens.
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I don't know what will happen. Just explaining why your point about 4 million refugees doesn't mean that the correct answer is direct conflict with the Russians.
I'm not convinced that Putin's victory in Ukraine would result in him attacking any other countries. I'm also not convinced that a no-fly zone over Ukraine would result in nuclear war.
Putin is going to lose and lose badly when it's all said and done, no matter how this completely plays out. He grossly miscalculated and I was wrong about how this would go early in Ukraine. At the same time I think his threats are just as dangerous if Ukrainians get MIG-29's vs a red-line situation.
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They are approved, permitted leases. There are additional regulatory steps along the way, but the issue is that it can take a year or more to get a field into production, and that doesn't even include determining whether there is enough extractible oil & gas on a lease to make drilling financially viable.
That's why in the short run the only solution is to get in bed with odious and morally questionable regimes who, for the moment at least--aren't invading sovereign countries and murdering their citizens.
Well, I'm not well versed with the facts on this but there appears to be political disagreement depending on what you read. I do know that Venezuelan oil is not exactly a thrilling idea if you're main goal is going green. Short term yes, it will take time.
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Well, I'm not well versed with the facts on this but there appears to be political disagreement depending on what you read. I do know that Venezuelan oil is not exactly a thrilling idea if you're main goal is going green. Short term yes, it will take time.
TSmith is right, there is nothing holding back oil companies. They have actually cut back (voluntarily) both new drilling, exploration, and production, and have made it clear that they have little to no interest in increasing investment in new drilling, exploration or production. The fact is, most of the oil fields are largely saturated with drilling operations.
The untapped possible wells, often are limited by technology. Meaning the oil may not even be recoverable with current tech.
Regarding the bolded, there are two things. Facts, and political pandering to get votes. Right now, you are (at least partially) falling for the political pandering angle.
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I don't know what will happen. Just explaining why your point about 4 million refugees doesn't mean that the correct answer is direct conflict with the Russians.
I'm not convinced that Putin's victory in Ukraine would result in him attacking any other countries. I'm also not convinced that a no-fly zone over Ukraine would result in nuclear war.
Lets's be honest. If muggsy thought a single sea-lion would be killed by a nuclear weapons test, he'd fly of the handle about why we didn't protect that little guy. Muggsy is all about the little guy.
Sorry muggsy :)
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The Marquette University Police Department is investigating the incident below. If you have more information, please contact MUPD immediately at (414) 288-6800.
Initial Incident Report
Incident type: Shots fired
Incident location: N. 15th St. and W. State St.
Approximate time: 9:10 p.m.
Victims: N/A
Physical injuries: N/A
At approximately 9:10 p.m., the Marquette University Police Department and the Milwaukee Police Department responded to a call of shots fired near N. 15th St. and W. State St. Evidence of a weapon being fired was discovered on and near a non-Marquette affiliated vehicle. No victims or suspects have been reported. Both agencies are investigating
Putin attacking Marquette now?
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The Marquette University Police Department is investigating the incident below. If you have more information, please contact MUPD immediately at (414) 288-6800.
Initial Incident Report
Incident type: Shots fired
Incident location: N. 15th St. and W. State St.
Approximate time: 9:10 p.m.
Victims: N/A
Physical injuries: N/A
At approximately 9:10 p.m., the Marquette University Police Department and the Milwaukee Police Department responded to a call of shots fired near N. 15th St. and W. State St. Evidence of a weapon being fired was discovered on and near a non-Marquette affiliated vehicle. No victims or suspects have been reported. Both agencies are investigating
Time to nuke the neighborhood around campus?
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Aren't there government regulations stopping them?
Profit motive is stopping them.
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Profit motive is stopping them.
Precisely. Rinse and repeat. Oil gets high enough to make domestic extraction appealing from a profit standpoint. Domestic extraction begins, OPEC drops the barrel and domestic production isn’t viable any longer.
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Precisely. Rinse and repeat. Oil gets high enough to make domestic extraction appealing from a profit standpoint. Domestic extraction begins, OPEC drops the barrel and domestic production isn’t viable any longer.
I’d recommend alternative energy resources but hahaha
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Lets's be honest. If muggsy thought a single sea-lion would be killed by a nuclear weapons test, he'd fly of the handle about why we didn't protect that little guy. Muggsy is all about the little guy.
Sorry muggsy :)
We have and are completely failing marine mammals. And countless other species.
But many of them.are big guys.
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Oil production has been down for the past five years despite calls to increase it, in favor of soaring profits and quarterly earnings.
Exxon, BP, Chevron, Shell, etc…all said nope to increasing production.
$174 Billion in profit this past year.
Perhaps some could make a little less profit.
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A lighter note.
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Oil production has been down for the past five years despite calls to increase it, in favor of soaring profits and quarterly earnings.
Exxon, BP, Chevron, Shell, etc…all said nope to increasing production.
$174 Billion in profit this past year.
Perhaps some could make a little less profit.
I assume anyone pushing for increased production would support nationalization then? Or perhaps government intervention into private markets?
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A lighter note.
Lol nice
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Aren't there government regulations stopping them?
No there isn't.
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Sure, but the nuclear threat is the same either way. It's probably much greater with NATO, as Putin must know he can't win or survive that conventional war.
I'm not advocating for direct US Intervention here, at least not yet I'm legitimately torn on it. But I don’t think our actions need be entirely dictated by a fear that Putin and his regime suddenly decide to become suicide bombers. They want wealth and power, not 72 virgins.
Sounds like my thought process.
I'm back and forth on no fly. Right now with the war not going so good for Russia my (current) thought is to hold off for now. They are going no where fast. Time only buys more leverage for the West. Let the Russians burn through more casualties, more equipment, more cheap Chinese tires, and even worse morale. There may come a point or some event that can trigger a "that's it" moment the Air Force is going in and it makes it more justifiable for the US and NATO.
Nuclear war, sure can be a possibility, but I think is very near nil for a few reasons.
* Putin can't just push the button himself. He has to go through a chain and other military people are involved.
* It's been reported many times that the US Military has back channels to the Russian military. I'm certain they are talking and there probably are assurances they will prevent nukes from being involved.
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I assume anyone pushing for increased production would support nationalization then? Or perhaps government intervention into private markets?
Thus whole Russia is bad because war thing must be hard for you, comrade.
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Aren't there government regulations stopping them?
https://twitter.com/MaxKennerly/status/1500246167967383559?t=l0MxjbC0KtCO0ospY38hqw&s=19
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A lighter note.
Speaking of which, Muggs should be happy now: thanks to McDonald's pulling out, we've now established to No-Fry Zone.
(Found on Reddit)
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https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-price-of-gasoline-isnt-really-at-a-record-high-in-fact-the-inflation-adjusted-cost-of-driving-a-mile-was-higher-for-most-of-the-past-century-11646770318
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Speaking of which, Muggs should be happy now: thanks to McDonald's pulling out, we've now established to No-Fry Zone.
(Found on Reddit)
The Russians are being shaketioned.
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https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-price-of-gasoline-isnt-really-at-a-record-high-in-fact-the-inflation-adjusted-cost-of-driving-a-mile-was-higher-for-most-of-the-past-century-11646770318
To bad wages havent kept up with inflation at all. So it hurts just as much, if not more.
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Sounds like my thought process.
I'm back and forth on no fly. Right now with the war not going so good for Russia my (current) thought is to hold off for now. They are going no where fast. Time only buys more leverage for the West. Let the Russians burn through more casualties, more equipment, more cheap Chinese tires, and even worse morale. There may come a point or some event that can trigger a "that's it" moment the Air Force is going in and it makes it more justifiable for the US and NATO.
I don't envy those in charge of making these decisions. After seeing the maternity hospital bombing today I'm getting more towards "that's it." But that's a purely emotional response.
These deliberate and targeted civilian attacks are just unconscionable. I know Muggs has gotten some flack, but I can relate to what he's feeling.
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The repeated civilian attacks are absolutely sickening.
But lets not forget who the real villains are here, NATO. Russia just protecting their borders you know #tankiepride
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The repeated civilian attacks are absolutely sickening.
But lets not forget who the real villains are here, NATO. Russia just protecting their borders you know #tankiepride
Tankies are so dumb
Putin is just killing Nazis!
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The Russians are being shaketioned.
I'm lovin' it
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I assume anyone pushing for increased production would support nationalization then? Or perhaps government intervention into private markets?
nope
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There's a Guardian story this afternoon that the UK Defense Ministry has possible evidence Russia is preparing chemical weapons for use in Ukraine.
If true, this might be the "That's it" moment.
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There's a Guardian story this afternoon that the UK Defense Ministry has possible evidence Russia is preparing chemical weapons for use in Ukraine.
If true, this might be the "That's it" moment.
You mean NATO saying "that's it" or Ukraine saying "that's it" or Russian military saying "that's it"
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nope
Oh.
Then how do you propose we increase domestic production?
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You mean NATO saying "that's it" or Ukraine saying "that's it" or Russian military saying "that's it"
NATO I would assume. Gassing civilians is probably getting to "bridge too far" territory
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Oh.
Then how do you propose we increase domestic production?
Invermectin?
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Invermectin?
Natural immunity
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There's a Guardian story this afternoon that the UK Defense Ministry has possible evidence Russia is preparing chemical weapons for use in Ukraine.
If true, this might be the "That's it" moment.
Which aligns with Russian propaganda that they "found a U.S. bioweapons lab" in Ukraine. Because that would be a good place for us to put a secret lab.
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Oh.
Then how do you propose we increase domestic production?
I'd like to believe you realize there are a wide variety of legislative changes, subsidy altering, etc... in between the current situation and outright nationalization. I don't know if you can look at the list of countries with nationalized oil production and say "i want to be like them"
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I'd like to believe you realize there are a wide variety of legislative changes, subsidy altering, etc... in between the current situation and outright nationalization. I don't know if you can look at the list of countries with nationalized oil production and say "i want to be like them"
Nationalization of all industries is Comrade Jesmu's wet dream.
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I'd like to believe you realize there are a wide variety of legislative changes, subsidy altering, etc... in between the current situation and outright nationalization. I don't know if you can look at the list of countries with nationalized oil production and say "i want to be like them"
Canada and Norway seem nice, but I wouldn't love the winters.
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Canada and Norway seem nice, but I wouldn't love the winters.
I don't believe Canada is. Petro-Canada didn't last even 20 years and stopped being state owned in the early 90s.
I forgot about Norway, but there was never a domestic oil industry in Norway to nationalize. They took control from the start to keep foreign companies from dominating if I recall.
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I don't believe Canada is. Petro-Canada didn't last even 20 years and stopped being state owned in the early 90s.
I forgot about Norway, but there was never a domestic oil industry in Norway to nationalize. They took control from the start to keep foreign companies from dominating if I recall.
Fair.
That said, would you say the less attractive countries with nationalized oil industries - Libya or Iran, for example - are less attractive because they have nationalized oil industries?
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I'd like to believe you realize there are a wide variety of legislative changes, subsidy altering, etc... in between the current situation and outright nationalization. I don't know if you can look at the list of countries with nationalized oil production and say "i want to be like them"
Genuine: Do you have a link to anything I can read with these options?
Afaik, we aren't producing to capacity because "big oil" doesn't want to. They'd rather have their stock price high related to supply being low/controlled.
Related - in hindsight, how f*cking stupid was it for Biden to tell folks to stop working from home and get back to the office? If gas prices are gonna spin outta control due to supply, we should be attempting to mitigate demand for those who NEED the fuel.
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Fair.
That said, would you say the less attractive countries with nationalized oil industries - Libya or Iran, for example - are less attractive because they have nationalized oil industries?
Its don't think its a direct correlation but I don't necessarily seeing government oversight/control over huge revenue generating energy industry doing direct good for their populations.
I mean Argentina re-nationalized their oil not long ago and that country is an unmitigated economic disaster. I guess I just don't see the positive outcome cases in action that would give credence to such a move, it just seems a result of people being annoyed with prices and thinking the oil/gas industry is too profitable/greedy
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Its don't think its a direct correlation but I don't necessarily seeing government oversight/control over huge revenue generating energy industry doing direct good for their populations.
I mean Argentina re-nationalized their oil not long ago and that country is an unmitigated economic disaster. I guess I just don't see the positive outcome cases in action that would give credence to such a move, it just seems a result of people being annoyed with prices and thinking the oil/gas industry is too profitable/greedy
There is a LOT of history that goes into that situation.
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Its don't think its a direct correlation but I don't necessarily seeing government oversight/control over huge revenue generating energy industry doing direct good for their populations.
I mean Argentina re-nationalized their oil not long ago and that country is an unmitigated economic disaster. I guess I just don't see the positive outcome cases in action that would give credence to such a move, it just seems a result of people being annoyed with prices and thinking the oil/gas industry is too profitable/greedy
I'm not in favor of nationalizing the oil industry, but I don't think nationalization of the oil industry is what makes places like Libya, Iran and Nigeria lousy places to live.
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I'm not in favor of nationalizing the oil industry, but I don't think nationalization of the oil industry is what makes places like Libya, Iran and Nigeria lousy places to live.
Again, I don’t disagree, I just don’t see it happening in countries we aspire to be like. If a country with a thriving oil industry did it in the last 20-25 years and had good outcomes, then it’s a more interesting discussion. Otherwise it just seems to be a tool of dictatorships or other government corruption/cronyism (which is the main reasons those countries are lousy IMO)
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We have and are completely failing marine mammals. And countless other species.
But many of them.are big guys.
One of the few issues I agree with you on.
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Oil production has been down for the past five years despite calls to increase it, in favor of soaring profits and quarterly earnings.
Exxon, BP, Chevron, Shell, etc…all said nope to increasing production.
$174 Billion in profit this past year.
Perhaps some could make a little less profit.
There also hold about 9,000 approved oil drilling leases. But complain it costs them too much to actually drill. I guess they don't have the money to drill.
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The repeated civilian attacks are absolutely sickening.
But lets not forget who the real villains are here, NATO. Russia just protecting their borders you know #tankiepride
Seriously question Wags, as you don't usually resort to such type statements. What does the bolded add to the discussion?
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Seriously question Wags, as you don't usually resort to such type statements. What does the bolded add to the discussion?
The teal went whoosh.
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Again, I don’t disagree, I just don’t see it happening in countries we aspire to be like. If a country with a thriving oil industry did it in the last 20-25 years and had good outcomes, then it’s a more interesting discussion. Otherwise it just seems to be a tool of dictatorships or other government corruption/cronyism (which is the main reasons those countries are lousy IMO)
Agreed.
Running it as a regulated industry, though, like the rest of the utilities? I'm open to it. Same with ISPs.
I'm happy with my electric/gas/water service, and I've made a lot of money investing in utility companies.
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I saw this locally now a national story
A Yale professor's list of companies staying in Russia has put the business world on notice
Bryan Pietsch
Tue, March 8, 2022, 6:49 AM·3 min read
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/yale-professors-list-companies-staying-114915451.html
Among executives, board members, analysts and others in the business world in recent days, a "who's who" list has been floating around, showing which companies have pulled out of Russia amid its attack on Ukraine - and which ones have stayed put.
The spreadsheet, compiled by Yale professor Jeffrey Sonnenfeld and his research team, has become a naughty-or-nice list of sorts, with CEOs trying their best to avoid being placed on the roster of "Companies That Remain in Russia With Significant Exposure."
Sonnenfeld, who founded the nonprofit Chief Executive Leadership Institute, said he has fielded calls from CEOs asking "why we didn't have them on the right list, and what they needed to do to either clarify or actually take a more strong stance."
On top of skyrocketing inflation and a plummeting ruble, Russians have been left with a dwindling marketplace: Prada stores have shuttered, TikTok has suspended operations in their country, and car companies including Rolls-Royce, Toyota and Volkswagen have stopped shipping vehicles to Russia. Even WWE, the wrestling entertainment company, said it would halt operations there.
The gutting of the Russian economy has shattered the image that President Vladimir Putin had created, portraying himself as an all-powerful leader with things under control, Sonnenfeld said in a phone interview with The Washington Post on Monday.
And with Russian state media echoing Putin's framing of the war as a "special military operation," Sonnenfeld added, the corporate pullouts provide a tangible message that the attack "isn't just some little military operation."
Even among those on the list of "Companies That Have Curtailed Russian Operations," some are taking a stronger position against the invasion than others, Sonnenfeld said. According to the list, BASF, a German chemical company, said it would "suspend new Russian relationships," while other companies including Apple and Chanel have closed stores or cut off supply chains. FedEx is halting all shipments to Russia, and major oil companies including ExxonMobil have said they will exit operations there, leaving billions of dollars on the table.
Although some companies could argue that exiting Russia would harm employees there who are removed from Putin's decision to invade Ukraine, Sonnenfeld said that "the idea is not to minimize the pain."
He said executives and board members should get past the idea that "somehow there's a win-win solution" and recognize that forcing an economic collapse on the Russian people is part of preventing a harsher outcome for them.
"This is one step away from open warfare," he said. "This is a last-ditch effort. You're helping those workers by not having [the West] dropping bombs and shooting them."
Among those on the list of companies keeping business as usual are major brands such as McDonald's, Starbucks and Coca-Cola. Sonnenfeld said McDonald's was the "screaming anomaly that's bewildering to all its peers," as it has remained operational in Russia even though it has control over 85% of its restaurants there, unlike companies such as Starbucks, which are hindered by franchise obligations.
A representative for McDonald's did not immediately respond to a request for comment about its operations in Russia.
Sonnenfeld said he has compiled other lists of companies' involvements in issues such as gun safety or former president Donald Trump's false claims about the 2020 election.
"We have a history of seeing the value of business leaders affirming the truth and taking a stand," he said. "CEOs need peer approval," he added, noting that they often try to avoid standing alone on issues or policies.
The cosmetics company Estée Lauder had been on the list of those maintaining operations in Russia. On Monday, it announced it would close all of the stores it owned there and stop shipping products to the country.
The Independent
Yale professor releases list of companies staying in Russia as pressure mounts on Western companies
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For Mugs
https://twitter.com/shashj/status/1501805877812248577
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Re: domestic energy production
https://youtu.be/kJOuyckvDGY
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For Mugs
https://twitter.com/shashj/status/1501805877812248577
Blinken went on several Sunday shows and stated "that's great" if the Poles give the Ukrainians MIG-29's. This whole situation is hanging by a thread.and has enormous geopolitical ramifications. If Ukraine can hold Kyiv, Putin may be forced to quit with his lack of equipment and his tanks being useless. Or he may continue to go apeshjt and use vacuum and carpet bombs like Grozny, or God forbid worse.
If it gets to that point, where he unloads bombs relentlessly and the Ukranian people are sitting ducks, we and NATO have to get involved imo. We have to look at this through the lens that Ukraine is a precursor to further Putin aggression against the West and NATO countries.
Lastly, if Putin somehow chooses to back down because his army is a dumpster fire, and they don't have enough supplies, the USA and the USA alone have to lead whatever "peace" agreement takes place. The worst that that could happen in this scenario is China being the arbiter.
n the meantime if Putin chooses to "win"at all costs" what we have seen to this point will be a blip of horror. The idea that the USA and Europe will watch this potential genocide in real time, and not do more to stop it is inconceivable to me.
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Blinken went on several Sunday shows and stated "that's great" if the Poles give the Ukrainians MIG-29's. This whole situation is hanging by a thread.and has enormous geopolitical ramifications. If Ukraine can hold Kyiv, Putin may be forced to quit with his lack of equipment and his tanks being useless. Or he may continue to go apeshjt and use vacuum and carpet bombs like Grozny, or God forbid worse.
If it gets to that point, where he unloads bombs relentlessly and the Ukranian people are sitting ducks, we and NATO have to get involved imo. We have to look at this through the lens that Ukraine is a precursor to further Putin aggression against the West and NATO countries.
Lastly, if Putin somehow chooses to back down because his army is a dumpster fire, and they don't have enough supplies, the USA and the USA alone have to lead whatever "peace" agreement takes place. The worst that that could happen in this scenario is China being the arbiter.
n the meantime if Putin chooses to "win"at all costs" what we have seen to this point will be a blip of horror. The idea that the USA and Europe will watch this potential genocide in real time, and not do more to stop it is inconceivable to me.
Wow. You are really itching for WWIII.
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Blinken went on several Sunday shows and stated "that's great" if the Poles give the Ukrainians MIG-29's. This whole situation is hanging by a thread.and has enormous geopolitical ramifications. If Ukraine can hold Kyiv, Putin may be forced to quit with his lack of equipment and his tanks being useless. Or he may continue to go apeshjt and use vacuum and carpet bombs like Grozny, or God forbid worse.
If it gets to that point, where he unloads bombs relentlessly and the Ukranian people are sitting ducks, we and NATO have to get involved imo. We have to look at this through the lens that Ukraine is a precursor to further Putin aggression against the West and NATO countries.
Lastly, if Putin somehow chooses to back down because his army is a dumpster fire, and they don't have enough supplies, the USA and the USA alone have to lead whatever "peace" agreement takes place. The worst that that could happen in this scenario is China being the arbiter.
n the meantime if Putin chooses to "win"at all costs" what we have seen to this point will be a blip of horror. The idea that the USA and Europe will watch this potential genocide in real time, and not do more to stop it is inconceivable to me.
Real question here, how much atrocity do you think we should sit and watch without military aid before we and our Allie's get involved and cause WW3 which would lead to massive massive casualties and probs nuclear war if I were a betting man.
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Wow. You are really itching for WWIII.
To be fair, what your proposing is basically what lead to WWII.
However, it seems logistically the Germans in 1939 were way ahead of Russians in 2022.
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The idea that Polish planes that would help Ukraine, which Blinken welcomed on Sunday, but two days later they are "escalatory" is worth discussion. Why are Stingers and Javelins not "escalatory"? We're dealing with a guy who just stated that the USA is building biological weapons within Ukraine. Wouldn't that be "escalatory"? If he wants WWIII right now he can certainly justify it can't he?
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Real question here, how much atrocity do you think we should sit and watch without military aid before we and our Allie's get involved and cause WW3 which would lead to massive massive casualties and probs nuclear war if I were a betting man.
Is it conceivable he doesn't want a nuclear war or a confrontation with the United States? Allies are involved right now and Poland wants to send those MIG-29'S. Do you think they're more concerned about his reaction to sending planes to Ukraine now or not sending them?
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The idea that Polish planes that would help Ukraine, which Blinken welcomed on Sunday, but two days later they are "escalatory" is worth discussion. Why are Stingers and Javelins not "escalatory"? We're dealing with a guy who just stated that the USA is building biological weapons within Ukraine. Wouldn't that be "escalatory"? If he wants WWIII right now he can certainly justify it can't he?
At this point, I'm less concerned with Putin wanting WW3 or nuclear war as much as you seem to want it
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Pretty sure Muggsy is just a Russia state troll at this point.
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To be fair, what your proposing is basically what lead to WWII.
However, it seems logistically the Germans in 1939 were way ahead of Russians in 2022.
No it is not.
It was also a completely different world with no nukes.
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Pretty sure Muggsy is just a Russia state troll at this point.
This is absolute nonsense. The fact is many here are refusing to look at the situation with clarity and why it has world order implications. FIrst of all Poland is a member of NATO, correct? We initially said we had no problem with Poland sending them MIG-29'S but apparently the fact that they would do it from our base in Germany would start WW3. But if they find a way to send them from Poland directly that wouldn't start WW3 and be an attack on a NATO member? This is totally nonsensical.
Worse, if you're Zelenskyy, why in the world would you trust NATO or the USA at this point? In fact, he may be forced to cut some kind of deal with Putin to save countless lives and abandon a democratic future. In the mean time who benefits the most from this entire situation? Do we really want a stronger China/Russia/ probably Iran alliance with zero fear that the USA/NATO will do didly squat if they attack sovereign countries? We are projecting weakness and from a longer term perspective it's a horrible idea and a threat to the Western World imo.
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This is absolute nonsense. The fact is many here are refusing to look at the situation with clarity and why it has world order implications. FIrst of all Poland is a member of NATO, correct? We initially said we had no problem with Poland sending them MIG-29'S but apparently the fact that they would do it from our base in Germany would start WW3. But if they find a way to send them from Poland directly that wouldn't start WW3 and be an attack on a NATO member? This is totally nonsensical.
Worse, if you're Zelenskyy, why in the world would you trust NATO or the USA at this point? In fact, he may be forced to cut some kind of deal with Putin to save countless lives and abandon a democratic future. In the mean time who benefits the most from this entire situation? Do we really want a stronger China/Russia/ probably Iran alliance with zero fear that the USA/NATO will do didly squat if they attack sovereign countries? We are projecting weakness and from a longer term perspective it's a horrible idea and a threat to the Western World imo.
How do you sleep at night?
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How do you sleep at night?
I've been an insomniac my whole life.
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Muggsy, any thoughts on the Russia's supposed plans to use skilled, trained walruses armed with remote explosives to set a perimeter and secure the Baltic Sea for further footholds?
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Muggsy, any thoughts on the Russia's supposed plans to use skilled, trained walruses armed with remote explosives to set a perimeter and secure the Baltic Sea for further footholds?
Walruses have sunk Russian Navy boats in the past. :)
I would imagine they are highly stressed and disgusted. Despite their size they are calm, cool, and collective.
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Muggsy has same opinion of this situation as MUBB - ATTACK! ATTACK! ATTACK!
at least he's consistent
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Muggsy has same opinion of this situation as MUBB - ATTACK! ATTACK! ATTACK!
at least he's consistent
Go medieval on them!
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Go medieval on them!
Would supplying Ukraine with trebuchets be considered an escalation?
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I've seen a lot of anger online over gas prices. Then further anger over US reaching out to oil countries asking for increased supply. This is after us/global oil companies refused to increase supply.
I haven't seen much anger at the companies themselves. Why is this?
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I've seen a lot of anger online over gas prices. Then further anger over US reaching out to oil countries asking for increased supply. This is after us/global oil companies refused to increase supply.
I haven't seen much anger at the companies themselves. Why is this?
We value profits over people
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Blinken went on several Sunday shows and stated "that's great" if the Poles give the Ukrainians MIG-29's. This whole situation is hanging by a thread.and has enormous geopolitical ramifications. If Ukraine can hold Kyiv, Putin may be forced to quit with his lack of equipment and his tanks being useless. Or he may continue to go apeshjt and use vacuum and carpet bombs like Grozny, or God forbid worse.
If it gets to that point, where he unloads bombs relentlessly and the Ukranian people are sitting ducks, we and NATO have to get involved imo. We have to look at this through the lens that Ukraine is a precursor to further Putin aggression against the West and NATO countries.
Lastly, if Putin somehow chooses to back down because his army is a dumpster fire, and they don't have enough supplies, the USA and the USA alone have to lead whatever "peace" agreement takes place. The worst that that could happen in this scenario is China being the arbiter.
n the meantime if Putin chooses to "win"at all costs" what we have seen to this point will be a blip of horror. The idea that the USA and Europe will watch this potential genocide in real time, and not do more to stop it is inconceivable to me.
Mig29s are trash. They won't alter the current battlefield in any meaningful way. At this point, I feel like Zelensky is trying to draw in help any way he can. I understand his position because he is only trying to save his country, but doing anything he suggests simply because it is righteous is simultaneously very dangerous.
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The idea that Polish planes that would help Ukraine, which Blinken welcomed on Sunday, but two days later they are "escalatory" is worth discussion. Why are Stingers and Javelins not "escalatory"? We're dealing with a guy who just stated that the USA is building biological weapons within Ukraine. Wouldn't that be "escalatory"? If he wants WWIII right now he can certainly justify it can't he?
That statement from Putin was for his people. The international community does not believe him.
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Is it conceivable he doesn't want a nuclear war or a confrontation with the United States? Allies are involved right now and Poland wants to send those MIG-29'S. Do you think they're more concerned about his reaction to sending planes to Ukraine now or not sending them?
Poland wants the American jets that they'd get in return for the Migs. That's what this is about. Replacing outdated junkers with superior aircraft.
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Pretty sure Muggsy is just a Russia state troll at this point.
Nonsense, he is just an emotional guy who wants to stop the violence... but his suggestions would probably create more violence. His heart is in the right place, I think.
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Pretty sure Muggsy is just a Russia state troll at this point.
Uh oh, the Russian troll farms have started to target scoop.
🤡
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Mig29s are trash. They won't alter the current battlefield in any meaningful way. At this point, I feel like Zelensky is trying to draw in help any way he can. I understand his position because he is only trying to save his country, but doing anything he suggests simply because it is righteous is simultaneously very dangerous.
Ukraine currently uses MiG-29s. Would more help? If they have the pilots to fly them.
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Ukraine currently uses MiG-29s. Would more help? If they have the pilots to fly them.
https://twitter.com/JackDetsch/status/1502018204184502279?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1502018204184502279%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Fliveupdate%2F18hnzysb1elcs%2FLiveUpdate_f02b8628-a0b0-11ec-a338-0a3925c6c990%2F0
To add to this, I'm surmising that they're not running the ones they have because Russia will shoot them down. Why blow up your own planes if you can blow up Poland's freebies?
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nm, wrong thread
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Jeez, an article today that even Duterte in the Philippines said they will follow the defense treaty and allow the US to use Philippine military bases should the Ukraine war spread to Asia.
“ Duterte, whose stormy six-year term ends in June, has nurtured closer ties with Russian President Vladimir Putin and Chinese leader Xi Jinping while often criticizing U.S. security policies in the first years of his presidency. But Romualdez said Duterte told him that that the Russian invasion was wrong.
“He says if they’re asking for the support of the Philippines, it’s very clear that, of course, if push comes to shove, the Philippines will be ready to be part of the effort, especially if this Ukrainian crisis spills over to the Asian region,” Romualdez said in an online briefing with Manila-based journalists. “Give them the assurance that if ever needed, the Philippines is ready to offer whatever facilities or whatever things that the United States will need being a major — our number one ally.” “
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Uh oh, the Russian troll farms have started to target scoop.
🤡
🤡🥊🍊🙏
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Nonsense, he is just an emotional guy who wants to stop the violence... but his suggestions would probably create more violence. His heart is in the right place, I think.
It's conceivable millions of Ukranians could starve to death and Putin will use chemical weapons for weeks. I don't think he can take Kiev with his land troops. So if it does get to that point what do you think our response should be or will Zelenskyy make some sort of deal?
We're seeing this war in real time and the Ukranians need way more weapons to defend themselves. Again, if Putin decides to vaporize civilians and carpet bomb will we and NATO essentially just stay the course? Is there a breaking point or Redline? Why did Blinken initially sign off on the Poles getting Ukraine MIG-29'S? If nothing else we and the entire Western World have to find a way to give them far more supplies, food, and weapons. And like immediately.
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It's conceivable millions of Ukranians could starve to death and Putin will use chemical weapons for weeks. I don't think he can take Kiev with his land troops. So if it does get to that point what do you think our response should be or will Zelenskyy make some sort of deal?
We're seeing this war in real time and the Ukranians need way more weapons to defend themselves. Again, if Putin decides to vaporize civilians and carpet bomb will we and NATO essentially just stay the course? Is there a breaking point or Redline? Why did Blinken initially sign off on the Poles getting Ukraine MIG-29'S? If nothing else we and the entire Western World have to find a way to give them far more supplies, food, and weapons. And like immediately.
Nothing except what we are doing. That is what we should do. We aren't the world police, and it never works out when we try to be.
Why does this war matter more than the other wars abroad? Why does no one call for us to intervene there?
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Nothing except what we are doing. That is what we should do. We aren't the world police, and it never works out when we try to be.
Why does this war matter more than the other wars abroad? Why does no one call for us to intervene there?
There are significant global implications (which we have discussed,) and you know that full well. Think of what the world would be like if Churchill didn't beg for our help in the early years of WW2? All genocides and ethnic cleansing is horrific. Personally I feel we shouldn't have allowed Sierra Leone, Rwanda, Syria, and other disgusting murders. It's unfortunate we have the responsibility of maintaining some sort of world order but it's much, much, much, much, worse if China /Russia are in control.
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Nothing except what we are doing. That is what we should do. We aren't the world police, and it never works out when we try to be.
Why does this war matter more than the other wars abroad? Why does no one call for us to intervene there?
Or why doesn't the world intervene when we invaded Iraq, and over 500k civilians died, with us intentionally bombing civilian bomb shelters, and Arab international news agencies.
Or intervene when we bombed Yugoslavia, including hospitals. Or Afghanistan when we bombed civilian hospitals, and errant bombs hit civilian homes in our ally Bulgaria.
It is estimated that 40k civilians have starved to death in Venezuela because of sanctions.
The fact is, War is ugly, and disgusting. We should do everything we can to suppress war everywhere.
Right now Putin is doing everything he can to disrupt global order. That puts everyone at risk. But I fear he is begging for someone to escalate this, so he can retaliate. If that happens, the number of dead will be off the charts. In my opinion, that means tread lightly, and when we intervene make sure it makes a difference (e.g. stingers, anti-aircraft missiles...but not outdated worthless Migs).
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There are significant global implications (which we have discussed,) and you know that full well. Think of what the world would be like if Churchill didn't beg for our help in the early years of WW2? All genocides and ethnic cleansing is horrific. Personally I feel we shouldn't have allowed Sierra Leone, Rwanda, Syria, and other disgusting murders. It's unfortunate we have the responsibility of maintaining some sort of world order but it's much, much, much, much, worse if China /Russia are in control.
You keep saying there are global implications. What are they? The US was always going to aid the Allies in WW2. If you want my true opinion, they just wanted to let Europe destroy itself a little before getting involved. We became the de facto super power in the world because post WW2, Europe was destroyed and all of the old colonial powers finally lost the last of their colonies. The US was the only major country in the world that was not subjected to absolute devastation of large swaths of it's territory.
Also, Russia has no chance of being in control. They can't even properly invade their neighbor who is less than 1/3 their population. They're a regional power with nukes. Their GDP is 11th in the world, and after this it will tumble into the 20s.
China is already in control of a lot more than you think (Africa, new silk road, etc.) It's better to compete with China since we are at our best when we have a goal or an 'opponent'... even if it is a dreamed up one like China.
Furthermore, we have done at least as many bad things as China. So, trying to take the moral high ground is kinda weird.
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Or why doesn't the world intervene when we invaded Iraq, and over 500k civilians died, with us intentionally bombing civilian bomb shelters, and Arab international news agencies.
Or intervene when we bombed Yugoslavia, including hospitals. Or Afghanistan when we bombed civilian hospitals, and errant bombs hit civilian homes in our ally Bulgaria.
It is estimated that 40k civilians have starved to death in Venezuela because of sanctions.
The fact is, War is ugly, and disgusting. We should do everything we can to suppress war everywhere.
Right now Putin is doing everything he can to disrupt global order. That puts everyone at risk. But I fear he is begging for someone to escalate this, so he can retaliate. If that happens, the number of dead will be off the charts. In my opinion, that means tread lightly, and when we intervene make sure it makes a difference (e.g. stingers, anti-aircraft missiles...but not outdated worthless Migs).
I would guess more like 200k civilians died. We do everything possible to avoid civilian casualties.
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You keep saying there are global implications. What are they? The US was always going to aid the Allies in WW2. If you want my true opinion, they just wanted to let Europe destroy itself a little before getting involved. We became the de facto super power in the world because post WW2, Europe was destroyed and all of the old colonial powers finally lost the last of their colonies. The US was the only major country in the world that was not subjected to absolute devastation of large swaths of it's territory.
Also, Russia has no chance of being in control. They can't even properly invade their neighbor who is less than 1/3 their population. They're a regional power with nukes. Their GDP is 11th in the world, and after this it will tumble into the 20s.
China is already in control of a lot more than you think (Africa, new silk road, etc.) It's better to compete with China since we are at our best when we have a goal or an 'opponent'... even if it is a dreamed up one like China.
Furthermore, we have done at least as many bad things as China. So, trying to take the moral high ground is kinda weird.
Well it sounds like you have no problem with China becoming the dominant power and that we and Western democracies are just as bad as their system of government.
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Or why doesn't the world intervene when we invaded Iraq, and over 500k civilians died, with us intentionally bombing civilian bomb shelters, and Arab international news agencies.
Or intervene when we bombed Yugoslavia, including hospitals. Or Afghanistan when we bombed civilian hospitals, and errant bombs hit civilian homes in our ally Bulgaria.
It is estimated that 40k civilians have starved to death in Venezuela because of sanctions.
The fact is, War is ugly, and disgusting. We should do everything we can to suppress war everywhere.
Right now Putin is doing everything he can to disrupt global order. That puts everyone at risk. But I fear he is begging for someone to escalate this, so he can retaliate. If that happens, the number of dead will be off the charts. In my opinion, that means tread lightly, and when we intervene make sure it makes a difference (e.g. stingers, anti-aircraft missiles...but not outdated worthless Migs).
Precisely. The US is responsible for more world wide death and destruction than any other nation in the world. We arm bad actors all over the globe. We 'regime change' leaders from countries we don't like and install friendly governments. But when anyone else does it... its bad. We call rich Russians Oligarchs, but shouldn't we be calling Bezos, Zuckerberg, Musk, Gates, etc... the same thing?
https://robertreich.substack.com/p/comparing-russian-and-american-oligarchs?s=r
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_interventions_by_the_United_States
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I would guess more like 200k civilians died. We do everything possible to avoid civilian casualties.
Keep drinking that Kool-Aid. Look up Obama Kunduz hospital.
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Well it sounds like you have no problem with China becoming the dominant power and that we and Western democracies are just as bad as their system of government.
There are currently two world super powers. The US and China. Neither system of government is perfect. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses.
Thinking that the US is somehow morally superior, or has a perfect governmental system is American propaganda that you've been spoon fed your entire life.
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There are currently two world super powers. The US and China. Neither system of government is perfect. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses.
Thinking that the US is somehow morally superior, or has a perfect governmental system is American propaganda that you've been spoon fed your entire life.
I never stated we have a "perfect system". If you really believe there's no real difference between the two main superpowers, or those countries that are dictatorships vs democracies, I don't know what to say.
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https://twitter.com/JackDetsch/status/1502018204184502279?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1502018204184502279%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Fliveupdate%2F18hnzysb1elcs%2FLiveUpdate_f02b8628-a0b0-11ec-a338-0a3925c6c990%2F0
To add to this, I'm surmising that they're not running the ones they have because Russia will shoot them down. Why blow up your own planes if you can blow up Poland's freebies?
Here is an interesting article backing up your premise:
Ukraine Needs Ground-Based Air Defenses Way More Than MiGs. Here Are The Best Options
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/44673/ukraine-needs-ground-based-air-defenses-way-more-than-migs-here-are-the-best-options
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We call rich Russians Oligarchs, but shouldn't we be calling Bezos, Zuckerberg, Musk, Gates, etc... the same thing?
https://robertreich.substack.com/p/comparing-russian-and-american-oligarchs?s=r
There is a fundamental difference between entrepreneurs who become filthy rich and gain influence and oligarchs who had multiple billion dollar companies handed to them due to crony connections in the KGB/Russian government after the fall of the USSR.
You can look up the bios of Gates and Bezos and Musk and chronicle their business ascension whereas these oligarchs have bios that go “went to university, were a low level manager at a bank/company…then suddenly took over Russia’s largest nickel miner”. They are indebted to Putin or the government in a much more intricate fashion than anyone in the US would be at that level.
Not surprising Reich is making those claims tho
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Here is an interesting article backing up your premise:
Ukraine Needs Ground-Based Air Defenses Way More Than MiGs. Here Are The Best Options
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/44673/ukraine-needs-ground-based-air-defenses-way-more-than-migs-here-are-the-best-options
I agree with this sentiment.
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There is a fundamental difference between entrepreneurs who become filthy rich and gain influence and oligarchs who had multiple billion dollar companies handed to them due to crony connections in the KGB/Russian government after the fall of the USSR.
You can look up the bios of Gates and Bezos and Musk and chronicle their business ascension whereas these oligarchs have bios that go “went to university, were a low level manager at a bank/company…then suddenly took over Russia’s largest nickel miner”. They are indebted to Putin or the government in a much more intricate fashion than anyone in the US would be at that level.
Not surprising Reich is making those claims tho
OT - Those guys did unbelievably well after starting on 3rd base. I do not know the bios of the oligarchs.
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OT - Those guys did unbelievably well after starting on 3rd base. I do not know the bios of the oligarchs.
That adds absolutely nothing to this discussion but is on brand for you, so thank you.
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That adds absolutely nothing to this discussion but is on brand for you, so thank you.
Anything I can do to correct the typically false narrative that surrounds these demi-gods!
Extremely wealthy folks who hold significant political influence? Sure sounds like oligarchs!
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There is a fundamental difference between entrepreneurs who become filthy rich and gain influence and oligarchs who had multiple billion dollar companies handed to them due to crony connections in the KGB/Russian government after the fall of the USSR.
You can look up the bios of Gates and Bezos and Musk and chronicle their business ascension whereas these oligarchs have bios that go “went to university, were a low level manager at a bank/company…then suddenly took over Russia’s largest nickel miner”. They are indebted to Putin or the government in a much more intricate fashion than anyone in the US would be at that level.
Not surprising Reich is making those claims tho
You're focusing on their path to super wealth rather than what is important. The path isn't irrelevant, but the "American Entrepreneurs" are certainly oligarchs now.
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I never stated we have a "perfect system". If you really believe there's no real difference between the two main superpowers, or those countries that are dictatorships vs democracies, I don't know what to say.
Obviously there are differences. That is what I am talking about. Each has their weaknesses and strengths. Why is the way China doing things worse than the way we do things? We both get/got ahead doing morally questionable things.
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If you are trying to compare us with China from a moral standpoint…please. We seem to get more criticism from our own “citizens” then we can seem to muster against the chicoms and that is what the ccp seize upon as a major weakness They walk around grinning like cheshire cats
Even our darkest days couldn’t hold a candle to what the ccp has done and continues to do to maintain power
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Why is the way China doing things worse than the way we do things?
Speechless. The Uyghur's would like a word.
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You're focusing on their path to super wealth rather than what is important. The path isn't irrelevant, but the "American Entrepreneurs" are certainly oligarchs now.
But it is important. The American “oligarchs” have significant political influence and sway…like every rich person in every country ever. The Russian oligarchs are like wealthy members of a kings court. They are inextricably tied to the king/dictator. They have more in common with their wealth with Hussein or Ghaddafi’s sons than the Bezos/Gates or their counterparts in the UK or France or Germany. That’s why their assets are being seized. They have a tons of money and power but still have a level of fealty. I don’t see that as the case as much here where the ultra wealthy routinely try to move government pieces, all the ways up to the top, for their benefit
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But it is important. The American “oligarchs” have significant political influence and sway…like every rich person in every country ever. The Russian oligarchs are like wealthy members of a kings court. They are inextricably tied to the king/dictator. They have more in common with their wealth with Hussein or Ghaddafi’s sons than the Bezos/Gates or their counterparts in the UK or France or Germany. That’s why their assets are being seized. They have a tons of money and power but still have a level of fealty. I don’t see that as the case as much here where the ultra wealthy routinely try to move government pieces, all the ways up to the top, for their benefit
I was with you until your last sentence.
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But it is important. The American “oligarchs” have significant political influence and sway…like every rich person in every country ever. The Russian oligarchs are like wealthy members of a kings court. They are inextricably tied to the king/dictator. They have more in common with their wealth with Hussein or Ghaddafi’s sons than the Bezos/Gates or their counterparts in the UK or France or Germany. That’s why their assets are being seized. They have a tons of money and power but still have a level of fealty. I don’t see that as the case as much here where the ultra wealthy routinely try to move government pieces, all the ways up to the top, for their benefit
I'm not sure it's fair to compare the paths to oligarchy in Russia vs the U.S.
The Russian oligarchs' path - relationships with the Kremlin, ties with organized crime, open corruption. etc. - is the only path in Russia. Unlike Gates or Musk or Zuckerberg, starting up a company and taking advantage of the free market system to accumulate vast wealth wasn't an option for them.
And, I would suggest, doing it the Russian way takes no lesser amount of skill, savvy, intelligence or entrepreneurial spirit than the American way. The waters they're navigating are different, but they still need to be great sailors. And, at the end of the day, I'd rather have to answer to Peter Thiel than Vladimir Putin.
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But it is important. The American “oligarchs” have significant political influence and sway…like every rich person in every country ever. The Russian oligarchs are like wealthy members of a kings court. They are inextricably tied to the king/dictator. They have more in common with their wealth with Hussein or Ghaddafi’s sons than the Bezos/Gates or their counterparts in the UK or France or Germany. That’s why their assets are being seized. They have a tons of money and power but still have a level of fealty. I don’t see that as the case as much here where the ultra wealthy routinely try to move government pieces, all the ways up to the top, for their benefit
Wouldn't it be fair to say that the parallels are strong, with the key difference that the Russian oligarchs to an extent answer to the government (step out of line and you are killed or financially destroyed). Where in the US, the government to an extent answers to the oligarchs (e.g. the government does what the wealthy corporate donors ask them to; government steps out of line and the donors boot them out)?
And, to extend that one step further, the goal of the sanctions is to bend the Russian system to be more like the US. Sanction the Oligarchs, to see if they can flip the relationship, where the Russian government now answers to them?
In my opinion this relationship in the US is far less rigid, and more fluid, but at least at a superficial level have parallels.
In any extent, the best strategy to bend Putin's will, is to pressure those with power. Punish the oligarchs and hope they do something about Putin. Direct military pressure is unlikely to have an impact, and most likely would make things worse.
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Wouldn't it be fair to say that the parallels are strong, with the key difference that the Russian oligarchs to an extent answer to the government. Where in the US, the government to an extent answers to the oligarchs?
And, to extend that one step further, the goal of the sanctions is to bend the Russian system to be more like the US. Sanction the Oligarchs, to see if they can flip the relationship, where the Russian government now answers to them?
The oligarchs are the defacto government. That's the literal definition of oligarchy:
a small group of people having control of a country, organization, or institution
The loyalty is between putin and the oligarchs. Not the Russian govt, or the Russian people.
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I was with you until your last sentence.
I worded that poorly. I was trying to say they try to move the pieces here as pledging fealty to those that "made them". Maybe you also disagree, but just clarifying.
I'm not sure it's fair to compare the paths to oligarchy in Russia vs the U.S.
The Russian oligarchs' path - relationships with the Kremlin, ties with organized crime, open corruption. etc. - is the only path in Russia. Unlike Gates or Musk or Zuckerberg, starting up a company and taking advantage of the free market system to accumulate vast wealth wasn't an option for them.
And, I would suggest, doing it the Russian way takes no lesser amount of skill, savvy, intelligence or entrepreneurial spirit than the American way. The waters they're navigating are different, but they still need to be great sailors. And, at the end of the day, I'd rather have to answer to Peter Thiel than Vladimir Putin.
I dont disagree. I wasn't trying to imply they weren't, cause they are all very skilled in many ways. But its still what it is. Same with a place like Dubai, for years you had to be in bed with the Sheiks or you couldn't become wealthy/impactful. A guy like Mohamed Alabbar is fantastically wealthy, Emaar is a behemoth...but its still in deference to the royal family of Dubai.
There are fundamental differences between Russian oligarchs and American billionaires, both in genesis and current operation, which is why I kind of bristle when people are quick to say "spot the difference". Its not deification, its just not losing sight of reality in the pursuit of "all extreme wealth is bad"
Wouldn't it be fair to say that the parallels are strong, with the key difference that the Russian oligarchs to an extent answer to the government. Where in the US, the government to an extent answers to the oligarchs?
And, to extend that one step further, the goal of the sanctions is to bend the Russian system to be more like the US. Sanction the Oligarchs, to see if they can flip the relationship, where the Russian government now answers to them?
I guess? Like I mentioned prior, the very wealthy have outsized influence on political situations EVERYWHERE. From the US to Asia to the Nordic countries to South America, etc... Its just lazy to me to automatically align the parallels of all ultra wealthy, especially when looking at places of vast corruption or government shadiness, unless your stated goal is the sort of "there should be no billionaires" slant, which I have no interest in entertaining.
As for your second point, I think thats almost too nuanced. This is more about cutting the legs out from Russia financially. If Putin is in trouble asset or resource wise, he now can't reach out to his oligarchs, who he helped make and enrich, to call in the favors or fealty and access their assets. I could be wrong, but thats my take. Same as when you freeze the assets of spouses and family of someone who has committed crimes.
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I guess? Like I mentioned prior, the very wealthy have outsized influence on political situations EVERYWHERE. From the US to Asia to the Nordic countries to South America, etc... Its just lazy to me to automatically align the parallels of all ultra wealthy, especially when looking at places of vast corruption or government shadiness, unless your stated goal is the sort of "there should be no billionaires" slant, which I have no interest in entertaining.
As for your second point, I think thats almost too nuanced. This is more about cutting the legs out from Russia financially. If Putin is in trouble asset or resource wise, he now can't reach out to his oligarchs, who he helped make and enrich, to call in the favors or fealty and access their assets. I could be wrong, but thats my take. Same as when you freeze the assets of spouses and family of someone who has committed crimes.
I agree with the above, and was just editing my prior post to clarify.
And when it comes down to it, right now it doesn't really matter, besides in helping identify the best cause of action to mitigate change in Putin's aggression and the catastrophic loss of life in Ukraine.
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Obviously there are differences. That is what I am talking about. Each has their weaknesses and strengths. Why is the way China doing things worse than the way we do things? We both get/got ahead doing morally questionable things.
"Why is the way China doing things worse than the way we do things". Is this really the leg you want to stand on Hards? Are you suggesting for example that Mao "did things" just like American Presidents, Congress/Senate, and billionaires in the USA "did things"?
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I worded that poorly. I was trying to say they try to move the pieces here as pledging fealty to those that "made them". Maybe you also disagree, but just clarifying.
Hmmm, I think I may be the one that misunderstood what you were trying to say.
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Ever-insightful U.S. Rep. Madison Cawthorn weighs in: "Remember that Zelenskyy is a thug. Remember that the Ukrainian government is incredibly corrupt and is incredibly evil and has been pushing woke ideologies."
https://www.wral.com/us-rep-madison-cawthorn-calls-zelensky-thug/20180199/
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Ever-insightful U.S. Rep. Madison Cawthorn weighs in: "Remember that Zelenskyy is a thug. Remember that the Ukrainian government is incredibly corrupt and is incredibly evil and has been pushing woke ideologies."
https://www.wral.com/us-rep-madison-cawthorn-calls-zelensky-thug/20180199/
I don't think it is any big secret that he is compromised.
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I don't think it is any big secret that he is compromised.
He is only compromised by his pro-Nazi ideology. The vast majority of people have realized the public overwhelmingly supports Ukraine and have modified their statements and behavior. Cawthorne is too deeply a Nazi to do so.
The bill getting billions more in aid to Ukraine has majority support, thankfully.
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Dan Lamothe
@DanLamothe
The senior U.S. defense official said Ukraine still has 56 operational jets in its arsenal and has been flying them just five to 10 hours per day. Points to that as one reason the Polish proposal to send Polish MiG-29 jets to Ukraine by way of the U.S. government was scuttled.
Dan Lamothe
@DanLamothe
·
2h
Russia still has about 90 percent of the combat power it had arrayed at the Ukrainian border prior to invasion available to them for use, senior U.S. defense official says, indicating thousands of soldiers are dead, wounded or captured.
Dan Lamothe
@DanLamothe
·
2h
Ukraine has “a tad more” than 90 percent of its combat forces available, same U.S. defense official says. Important note: Its military is significantly smaller.
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He is only compromised by his pro-Nazi ideology. The vast majority of people have realized the public overwhelmingly supports Ukraine and have modified their statements and behavior. Cawthorne is too deeply a Nazi to do so.
The bill getting billions more in aid to Ukraine has majority support, thankfully.
Cawthorn is no Tulsi Gabbard.
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Cawthorn is no Tulsi Gabbard.
What in the f happened to her?
Straight grifter the entire time?
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2h
Russia still has about 90 percent of the combat power it had arrayed at the Ukrainian border prior to invasion available to them for use, senior U.S. defense official says, indicating thousands of soldiers are dead, wounded or captured.
Dan Lamothe
@DanLamothe
Why would that indicate a bunch are dead wounded or captured?
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What in the f happened to her?
Straight grifter the entire time?
The entire time? Nah. But there is little value to being in the middle anymore, especially if you play it poorly. Her Presidential run was a disaster. Put herself in the middle/against DNC establishment which alienated her against her own party, so she became a hired gun, IMO
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What in the f happened to her?
Straight grifter the entire time?
she's speaking truth to 35%'ers damn she is one sexy mama wouldn't tro her outta the crib for eatin stale saltines
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The entire time? Nah. But there is little value to being in the middle anymore, especially if you play it poorly. Her Presidential run was a disaster. Put herself in the middle/against DNC establishment which alienated her against her own party, so she became a hired gun, IMO
Her pro-Syria, pro-Russia and pro-isolationism stances aren't centrist in either party.
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What in the f happened to her?
Straight grifter the entire time?
"I'm not making any predictions, but I think they've got their eye on somebody who is currently in the Democratic primary and are grooming her to be the third-party candidate. She's the favorite of the Russians."
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Why would that indicate a bunch are dead wounded or captured?
Yes, I believe that means 10% of the Russian invasion force is now dead wounded or captured.
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Speechless. The Uyghur's would like a word.
You can be speechless, but that would only indicate your ignorance. Willful or not. We annihilated an entire continent of people.
And we're basically funding or providing arms to several ongoing genocides. Moral high ground, we have not.
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"Why is the way China doing things worse than the way we do things". Is this really the leg you want to stand on Hards? Are you suggesting for example that Mao "did things" just like American Presidents, Congress/Senate, and billionaires in the USA "did things"?
LOL yes, absolutely.
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Her pro-Syria, pro-Russia and pro-isolationism stances aren't centrist in either party.
Look into her family and their cult... I mean... "religion".
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The oligarchs are the defacto government. That's the literal definition of oligarchy:
a small group of people having control of a country, organization, or institution
The loyalty is between putin and the oligarchs. Not the Russian govt, or the Russian people.
You'd be surprised how inexpensive it is to buy a sitting congressperson.
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With the death of Fox News cameraman Pierre Zakrzewski, at least three journalists have been killed since Russia launched its attack against Ukraine.
Others known to have been killed since the conflict began were American journalist and filmmaker Brent Renaud and Ukranian cameraman Yevhenii Sakun. Many other journalists have been injured, including Fox News correspondent Benjamin Hall, who was hurt in the attack that killed Zakrzewski.
My heart goes out to the families of these silenced heroes, who had courageously served in war zones so they could inform the world of the atrocities taking place.
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Sorry, gents, my senility is flaring up this week.
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You can be speechless, but that would only indicate your ignorance. Willful or not. We annihilated an entire continent of people.
And we're basically funding or providing arms to several ongoing genocides. Moral high ground, we have not.
It's not willful ignorance. It's actually not wanting history to keep repeating itself. When you basically state its no different than how we do it, I make up that you are condoning Chinese behavior. Now if you would have said how we DID things, I would agree. Slavery, genocide of Native Americans (I am 1/32 Susquahannock), among others was reprehensible, and I wished there would have been another country to force us to have stopped these atrocities.
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Look into her family and their cult... I mean... "religion".
Careful there, you are sounding pretty intolerant of other's beliefs.
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Sorry, gents, my senility is flaring up this week.
#FreeDoc
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It's not willful ignorance. It's actually not wanting history to keep repeating itself. When you basically state its no different than how we do it, I make up that you are condoning Chinese behavior. Now if you would have said how we DID things, I would agree. Slavery, genocide of Native Americans (I am 1/32 Susquahannock), among others was reprehensible, and I wished there would have been another country to force us to have stopped these atrocities.
That's quite disingenuous. I never excused CCP behavior. Just said it was entirely hypocritical to try to take any sort of moral high ground.
We also ver recently annihilated 400k Iraqis because..... uhhhhhh.... reasons?
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Careful there, you are sounding pretty intolerant of other's beliefs.
Yep I am. I dont have to tolerate terrible beliefs.
I won't tolerate Nazi behavior either. Nor should anyone.
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Yep I am. I dont have to tolerate terrible beliefs.
I won't tolerate Nazi behavior either. Nor should anyone.
Tulsi's a Nazi?
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Hindu/ nazi.
Potatoe/potato.
Obviously kidding. Just want to see if I can upset one of our snowflakes.
I have seen her described as a commie many times. Meeting with Putin and being on Russian tv will do that. Never seen her described as a nazi, though.
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Tulsi's a Nazi?
Tulsi's not a Nazi, but she has an affinity for murderous dictators and others with authoritarian leanings.
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Tulsi's not a Nazi, but she has an affinity for murderous dictators and others with authoritarian leanings.
She also has said some anti-semetic stuff. The far right loved her during the primaries, and love her still now.
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That's quite disingenuous. I never excused CCP behavior. Just said it was entirely hypocritical to try to take any sort of moral high ground.
We also ver recently annihilated 400k Iraqis because..... uhhhhhh.... reasons?
This entire discussion has never been about taking a "moral highground" or excusing terrible decisions by our government which led to innocent people being killed. You invoked this narrative, essentially stated the USA is no different than Maoist China, and refuse to look at geopolitical ramifications of the current situation. Beyond that whether it be Mao, or Stalin, or Hitler, or Pol Pot, or 100 million plus people being killed under authoritatarian dictatorships in the last 100 years, your comments are extremely insulting for those who prefer to live in a free society.
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This entire discussion has never been about taking a "moral highground" or excusing terrible decisions by our government which led to innocent people being killed. You invoked this narrative, essentially stated the USA is no different than Maoist China, and refuse to look at geopolitical ramifications of the current situation. Beyond that whether it be Mao, or Stalin, or Hitler, or Pol Pot, or 100 million plus people being killed under authoritatarian dictatorships in the last 100 years, your comments are extremely insulting for those who prefer to live in a free society.
Didn't we install a bunch of those dictatorships, so that we could exploit the people and their resources?
Note: I'm not referencing the four you list (clearly), rather general authoritarian dictators around the world.
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This entire discussion has never been about taking a "moral highground" or excusing terrible decisions by our government which led to innocent people being killed. You invoked this narrative, essentially stated the USA is no different than Maoist China, and refuse to look at geopolitical ramifications of the current situation. Beyond that whether it be Mao, or Stalin, or Hitler, or Pol Pot, or 100 million plus people being killed under authoritatarian dictatorships in the last 100 years, your comments are extremely insulting for those who prefer to live in a free society.
This is your narrative, not mine. I just pointed out that our hands aren't exactly clean. No equivalency.
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This is your narrative, not mine. I just pointed out that our hands aren't exactly clean. No equivalency.
No one stated "our hands are clean". We we trying to have a discussion about a powder keg situation with worldwide implications.
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This is your narrative, not mine. I just pointed out that our hands aren't exactly clean. No equivalency.
I think it’s an important distinction though. And one that’s good to make. The whole “the US has no room to talk” when discussing the Uyghurs or brutal authoritarian violence is as silly as pretending the US is lillywhite and a mighty pure moral voice
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Go Portugal!
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I think it’s an important distinction though. And one that’s good to make. The whole “the US has no room to talk” when discussing the Uyghurs or brutal authoritarian violence is as silly as pretending the US is lillywhite and a mighty pure moral voice
If you say so, sure. Our prison system is also pretty brutal. I don't want this to get too far off topic, so I'll drop it.
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The Kyiv mayor is Vitali Klitschko - the former heavyweight champ. It might not be so easy for Putin to remove him to install a lackey.
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Well done, Arnold.
https://twitter.com/Schwarzenegger/status/1504426844199669762?s=20&t=31jBDnd6tLvuYUva9a8Ilg
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Well done, Arnold.
Off topic: doesn't everyone have a nude picture of themselves flexing behind their desk? LOL
P.S. Kudos to Arnold. Hopefully it will be seen by its target audience.
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Incredible account from one of the last 2 journalists remaining in Mariupol, who risked their lives to share video of Putin’s bombing of maternity hospitals.
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-edf7240a9d990e7e3e32f82ca351dede
These people are examples of the heroes that let us behind the curtains of secrecy to see Putin’s atrocities and war crimes.
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Incredible account from one of the last 2 journalists remaining in Mariupol, who risked their lives to share video of Putin’s bombing of maternity hospitals.
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-edf7240a9d990e7e3e32f82ca351dede
These people are examples of the heroes that let us behind the curtains of secrecy to see Putin’s atrocities and war crimes.
C'mon, Mike. We all know that these journalists are lazy & biased.
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C'mon, Mike. We all know that these journalists are lazy & biased.
War time journalists are a little different than your average domestic reporter.
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War time journalists are a little different than your average domestic reporter.
🤡🤡
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War time journalists are a little different than your average domestic reporter.
Jim Acosta sure ain’t no Ernie Pyle.
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Jim Acosta sure ain’t no Ernie Pyle.
And yet Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens aspire to be Tokyo Rose.
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(https://images2.imgbox.com/3a/6c/F7Gwmr03_o.jpg) (https://imgbox.com/F7Gwmr03)
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I hear tankjackings are on the rise.
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I hear tankjackings are on the rise.
Especially near campus.
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Especially near campus.
Outstanding. ;D ;D
Hopefully Inspector 4ever is on the case.
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Outstanding. ;D ;D
Hopefully Inspector 4ever is on the case.
I’m sure he is. Very concerned about Putin’s property getting stolen.
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I've heard that Ukrainian farmers currently have the 3rd largest tank fleet in the world.
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I've heard that Ukrainian farmers currently have the 3rd largest tank fleet in the world.
Source?
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(https://images2.imgbox.com/6c/14/SrW5jHKl_o.jpg) (https://imgbox.com/SrW5jHKl)
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I hear tankjackings are on the rise.
They steal everything else there, so why not?
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I've heard that Ukrainian farmers currently have the 3rd largest tank fleet in the world.
To go with their donkey plows.
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The Ukrainian Army Has More Tanks Now Than When The War Began—Because It Keeps Capturing Them From Russia
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/03/24/the-ukrainian-army-has-captured-enough-russian-tanks-to-make-good-all-its-own-losses-and-then-some/?sh=73926e627922
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"This man (Putin) cannot remain in power:." Very interesting comment by Biden. Makes you wonder how this is going to play out and it's a bit scary.
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WH already tried walking it back, but I don't think you can. An off-script moment that will only reinforce Putin's paranoia.
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WH already tried walking it back, but I don't think you can. An off-script moment that will only reinforce Putin's paranoia.
He said what everyone was already thinking.
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He said what everyone was already thinking.
You'd think after 84 years in the senate, 8 as VP, 4 in his basement in deleware,, and now 2 in the WH, he would know how the diplomatic game works.
Or he thinks putin is corn pop and wants to bare knuckle box him behind the woodshed.
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You'd think after 84 years in the senate, 8 as VP, 4 in his basement in deleware,, and now 2 in the WH, he would know how the diplomatic game works.
Or he thinks putin is corn pop and wants to bare knuckle box him behind the woodshed.
More than one type of diplomacy.
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https://twitter.com/willdizard/status/1507495412944543745?s=21&t=L3SIGOD3yGvOEwS1MfYd4Q
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WH already tried walking it back, but I don't think you can. An off-script moment that will only reinforce Putin's paranoia.
I'm not convinced it was off-script.
And I'm thoroughly enjoying the pearl clutching from the same crowd that cheers on a guy who's threatened nuclear war on multiple occasions.
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I'm not convinced it was off-script.
And I'm thoroughly enjoying the pearl clutching from the same crowd that cheers on a guy who's threatened nuclear war on multiple occasions.
It was a stupid comment. Higher chance of it galvanizing everyday Russian support than saying something along the lines of, "We will back the Russian people if they choose to end the bloodshed and reclaim their country".
Similar message, much less confrontational.
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It was a stupid comment. Higher chance of it galvanizing everyday Russian support than saying something along the lines of, "We will back the Russian people if they choose to end the bloodshed and reclaim their country".
Similar message, much less confrontational.
I disagree. The comment was not meant for Putin. It was for the people around him.
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I disagree. The comment was not meant for Putin. It was for the people around him.
You really think that type of comment is going to mean anything to the people around him? They already know what’s up.
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You'd think after 84 years in the senate, 8 as VP, 4 in his basement in deleware,, and now 2 in the WH, he would know how the diplomatic game works.
Or he thinks putin is corn pop and wants to bare knuckle box him behind the woodshed.
Yeah, he should just have fellated Putin, called him a savvy genius, sided with him over our intelligence agencies, and pulled aid from Zelenskyy. That's what a real diplomat does.
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It was a stupid comment. Higher chance of it galvanizing everyday Russian support than saying something along the lines of, "We will back the Russian people if they choose to end the bloodshed and reclaim their country".
Similar message, much less confrontational.
Saying Putin should go is stupid, but openly encouraging a revolt is savvy?
I actually agree with Jockey here. This was a signal to the people around Putin.
And yes, Clarissa, they are listening.
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I don't know why its impossible to say Biden did something stupid without having to state that Trump was a moron and did other impossibly stupid things. Its an incredibly weak defense of Biden. Both can be inept
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I don't know why its impossible to say Biden did something stupid without having to state that Trump was a moron and did other impossibly stupid things. Its an incredibly weak defense of Biden. Both can be inept
And both are. Please no more boomer presidents
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I don't know why its impossible to say Biden did something stupid without having to state that Trump was a moron and did other impossibly stupid things. Its an incredibly weak defense of Biden. Both can be inept
Biden has handled this entire thing very well. But what he said today was unplanned and not smart. And no it wasn’t some message to those around Putin. Those around Putin aren’t listening to messages from Joe Biden, especially since he isn’t saying anything they don’t already know.
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Yeah, he should just have fellated Putin, called him a savvy genius, sided with him over our intelligence agencies, and pulled aid from Zelenskyy. That's what a real diplomat does.
Or this. He should have done this.
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Zero. Zero downside. Biden's team more or less ignores the inevitable Fox/RT spin, as they do that of the various Russian owned mouthpieces in Congress. It's a deliberate decision, and I think it's likely to prove successful. It sure as hell has all of NATO fired up in a good way. Biden is saying what the Poles, Romanians, Hungarians and others ALL want to hear. He's telling them that he understands what a threat Putin is to all of them, and that he is on their side. Plus, it puts the RT people like Fox on the backfoot. They now have to defend Putin directly. Or not. It makes them move into the open in their support, or it makes them abandon him.. Either way, that's a win. Destroy your credibility, or cut ties with Putin.
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Yeah, he should just have fellated Putin, called him a savvy genius, sided with him over our intelligence agencies, and pulled aid from Zelenskyy. That's what a real diplomat does.
Ice your shoulders, they must be tired from carrying the water for the clown.
🐷🐷
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Zero. Zero downside. Biden's team more or less ignores the inevitable Fox/RT spin, as they do that of the various Russian owned mouthpieces in Congress. It's a deliberate decision, and I think it's likely to prove successful. It sure as hell has all of NATO fired up in a good way. Biden is saying what the Poles, Romanians, Hungarians and others ALL want to hear. He's telling them that he understands what a threat Putin is to all of them, and that he is on their side. Plus, it puts the RT people like Fox on the backfoot. They now have to defend Putin directly. Or not. It makes them move into the open in their support, or it makes them abandon him.. Either way, that's a win. Destroy your credibility, or cut ties with Putin.
(https://c.tenor.com/K0AR4Ufya78AAAAC/nailed-it-ron.gif)
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And both are. Please no more boomer presidents
As a boomer, my response to this is...
(https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.q9KBvAWdw4b585hrQqInjQAAAA&pid=Api&P=0&w=168&h=168)
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Zero. Zero downside. Biden's team more or less ignores the inevitable Fox/RT spin, as they do that of the various Russian owned mouthpieces in Congress. It's a deliberate decision, and I think it's likely to prove successful. It sure as hell has all of NATO fired up in a good way. Biden is saying what the Poles, Romanians, Hungarians and others ALL want to hear. He's telling them that he understands what a threat Putin is to all of them, and that he is on their side. Plus, it puts the RT people like Fox on the backfoot. They now have to defend Putin directly. Or not. It makes them move into the open in their support, or it makes them abandon him.. Either way, that's a win. Destroy your credibility, or cut ties with Putin.
Yep. For all of his flaws - and Biden has many - it’s good to have a president who isn’t beholden to Putin, and a president who is trying to lead a fight for America, for our allies and for democracy.
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FD Joe painted himself into a corner. No choice but to knock off Putin, which he will bungle major, aina?
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Putin is smart. He made a mistake. This war is a great negotiation that didn’t go well for him so far.
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White House is walking back the idiotic remark and trying to retrieve the full Johnson FD is choking down, aina?
#buffoon
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White House is walking back the idiotic remark and trying to retrieve the full Johnson FD is choking down, aina?
#buffoon
Again, and I know you find this hard to stomach, but he has handled this extremely well. Sorry you can't give your President his due at a time of international crisis.
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2022/03/22/poking-the-bear-marjorie-taylor-greene-suggests-ukraine-instigated-russian-invasion/amp/
Where’s alum Joe McCarthy when you need him?
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Again, and I know you find this hard to stomach, but he has handled this extremely well. Sorry you can't give your President his due at a time of international crisis.
The invasion of the Ukraine only happened because of Biden's extreme weakness. The world, including China, has seen and made note of his mishandling of Afghanistan, the Mexican border, and the Middle East. The U.S., not only isn't feared by our enemies, but is perceived as weak and vulnerable.
Buffoon and Buffoon2 make for great comedy. Unfortunately, the joke is on the American people, aina?
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The invasion of the Ukraine only happened because of Biden's extreme weakness. The world, including China, has seen and made note of his mishandling of Afghanistan, the Mexican border, and the Middle East. The U.S., not only isn't feared by our enemies, but is perceived as weak and vulnerable.
Buffoon and Buffoon2 make for great comedy. Unfortunately, the joke is on the American people, aina?
This is your brain on right-wing media.
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The invasion of the Ukraine only happened because of Biden's extreme weakness. The world, including China, has seen and made note of his mishandling of Afghanistan, the Mexican border, and the Middle East. The U.S., not only isn't feared by our enemies, but is perceived as weak and vulnerable.
Buffoon and Buffoon2 make for great comedy. Unfortunately, the joke is on the American people, aina?
Lol. Sure. Thats why the American lead NATO response has been so ineffective. 🙄🙄🙄🙄
This is your brain on right-wing media.
Yep.
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Zero. Zero downside. Biden's team more or less ignores the inevitable Fox/RT spin, as they do that of the various Russian owned mouthpieces in Congress. It's a deliberate decision, and I think it's likely to prove successful. It sure as hell has all of NATO fired up in a good way. Biden is saying what the Poles, Romanians, Hungarians and others ALL want to hear. He's telling them that he understands what a threat Putin is to all of them, and that he is on their side. Plus, it puts the RT people like Fox on the backfoot. They now have to defend Putin directly. Or not. It makes them move into the open in their support, or it makes them abandon him.. Either way, that's a win. Destroy your credibility, or cut ties with Putin.
My Polish in-laws are extremely happy with yesterday's speech and comments. The whole country is. They're thankful we have a President who stands up to Putin unlike TFG.
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My Polish in-laws are extremely happy with yesterday's speech and comments. The whole country is. They're thankful we have a President who stands up to Putin unlike TFG.
Well, what would people in Poland know? Do they even sit by their police scanners? I mean, they let refugees in their country! Sad!
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Again, and I know you find this hard to stomach, but he has handled this extremely well. Sorry you can't give your President his due at a time of international crisis.
Actually, he is willing to give ‘his’ President his due. He’s just unwilling to support the president of the US.
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Lol. Sure. Thats why the American lead NATO response has been so ineffective. 🙄🙄🙄🙄
If only Biden had reached out for advice from noted foreign policy expert Kid Rock, this all could have been avoided.
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I don't know why its impossible to say Biden did something stupid without having to state that Trump was a moron and did other impossibly stupid things. Its an incredibly weak defense of Biden. Both can be inept
This. Every time Biden goes off script he steps in it. In the last few days he’s said we’ll take 100,000 more Ukrainian refugees, would respond to a Russian chemical attack “in kind”, told our troops in Poland that they were going to Ukraine and called for the overthrow of the Russian government. What does “but, but, Trump…” have to do with the fact that every time Joe Biden is allowed by his handlers to speak unscripted he says things that are stupid, false, dangerous or all of the above?
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This. Every time Biden goes off script he steps in it. In the last few days he’s said we’ll take 100,000 more Ukrainian refugees, would respond to a Russian chemical attack “in kind”, told our troops in Poland that they were going to Ukraine and called for the overthrow of the Russian government. What does “but, but, Trump…” have to do with the fact that every time Joe Biden is allowed by his handlers to speak unscripted he says things that are stupid, false, dangerous or all of the above?
Put all boomer politicians to bed, aina?
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The invasion of the Ukraine only happened because of Biden's extreme weakness. The world, including China, has seen and made note of his mishandling of Afghanistan, the Mexican border, and the Middle East. The U.S., not only isn't feared by our enemies, but is perceived as weak and vulnerable.
Buffoon and Buffoon2 make for great comedy. Unfortunately, the joke is on the American people, aina?
Your god would have just called Putin brilliant and strong, and handed him anything he wanted. But at least you are very good at parroting Tucker and Hannity.
I hope you and your fellow buffon are better at pulling teeth, nu?
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The invasion of the Ukraine only happened because of Biden's extreme weakness. The world, including China, has seen and made note of his mishandling of Afghanistan, the Mexican border, and the Middle East. The U.S., not only isn't feared by our enemies, but is perceived as weak and vulnerable.
Buffoon and Buffoon2 make for great comedy. Unfortunately, the joke is on the American people, aina?
Turn off the Newsmax.
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This. Every time Biden goes off script he steps in it. In the last few days he’s said we’ll take 100,000 more Ukrainian refugees, would respond to a Russian chemical attack “in kind”, told our troops in Poland that they were going to Ukraine and called for the overthrow of the Russian government. What does “but, but, Trump…” have to do with the fact that every time Joe Biden is allowed by his handlers to speak unscripted he says things that are stupid, false, dangerous or all of the above?
We should take in hundreds of thousands more refugees. It would be a boon for our country!
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Wags and Lenny
I agree 100%. I have no idea why every defense of Biden has to include a Trump bashing. The world is in a serious situation and words have to be weighed before being spoken and it appears that Biden struggled with this concept. Honestly, my biggest concern about Biden is if he is up to task if things progress beyond words.
It is funny because I keep reading posts with Trump and Fox News mentions and think that proves their point. Whenever there are major world issues I only watch CNN because I believe they have the most boots on the ground and best crisis coverage. Biden’s comments were questioned multiple times, by multiple people, on CNN yesterday.
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Wags and Lenny
I agree 100%. I have no idea why every defense of Biden has to include a Trump bashing. The world is in a serious situation and words have to be weighed before being spoken and it appears that Biden struggled with this concept. Honestly, my biggest concern about Biden is if he is up to task if things progress beyond words.
It is funny because I keep reading posts with Trump and Fox News mentions and think that proves their point. Whenever there are major world issues I only watch CNN because I believe they have the most boots on the ground and best crisis coverage. Biden’s comments were questioned multiple times, by multiple people, on CNN yesterday.
Biden has proved extremely capable so far in this crisis. Perfect? Nope. His comments yesterday are an example of that. But you don’t have to look too far to see how he has succeeded. Too bad you are blind to that.
Perhaps you should stick to hoops like you tell others to do.
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We should take in hundreds of thousands more refugees. It would be a boon for our country!
In your opinion. But the remark nonetheless made Biden’s handlers cringe. How do you feel about his other three statements - sending troops to Ukraine, responding to the use of chemical weapons “in kind” and support for the overthrow of the Russian government? The first two statements are patently false and give Putin propaganda free of charge. The third is what we all wish for but should have never been said by an American president - and also give Putin free propaganda to rally the Russians against the West.
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For the record, I agree Trump shouldn't be brought up when discussing the performance of Biden. It is whaaboutism plain and simple.
But I have to admit that watching people who constantly started posts with "But Hillary..." from 2016 to 2020, or at least stayed silent when others did, complain about whataboutism makes me chuckle.
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In your opinion. But the remark nonetheless made Biden’s handlers cringe. How do you feel about his other three statements - sending troops to Ukraine, responding to the use of chemical weapons “in kind” and support for the overthrow of the Russian government? The first two statements are patently false and give Putin propaganda free of charge. The third is what we all wish for but should have never been said by an American president - and also give Putin free propaganda to rally the Russians against the West.
As I said he hasn’t been perfect. But he’s been very good. Six weeks ago no one believed that the West would be as united as it has been. Biden deserves a lot of credit for that.
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I don't know why its impossible to say Biden did something stupid without having to state that Trump was a moron and did other impossibly stupid things. Its an incredibly weak defense of Biden. Both can be inept
I don't think it was stupid by Biden at all. But, I am probably more hawkish on this than most here. IMO, zero negative effect for Biden saying exactly what everyone is thinking and what is undoubtably true. YMMV.
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fluff
I have supported every President, regardless of party, my entire life. I have always believed that is what you do as an American citizen and that will never change. Ironically, Trump was possibly the President I questioned more than any President in my lifetime. There is nothing I like more than supporting any politician for a job well done.
As for your advice to sticking to ball, I figure that since we have a lot of experts on here in wide range of topics that maybe I could learn something joining these posts.
TAMU
I agree on the Hilary comments and that was as foolish as the Trump comments, IMO.
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Biden is far from perfect, as Lenny has said well.
I do like that Biden and the USA as a whole has largely taken a backseat to the larger NATO narrative. NATO should be front and center, not the USA. Poland taking a bit of a lead is perfect, we don’t need to rush in a throw our dick on the table like has happened the previous 30+ years.
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Biden has proved extremely capable so far in this crisis. Perfect? Nope. His comments yesterday are an example of that. But you don’t have to look too far to see how he has succeeded. Too bad you are blind to that.
Perhaps you should stick to hoops like you tell others to do.
Extremely capable or extremely lucky? I think Biden and our allies thought this would be a walkover for the Russians. I think they were as shocked by the courage and capabilities of the Ukrainian people/forces/leadership as the Russians were. Once given this surprising piece of good luck, I think the administration has managed things pretty well - but I think the support we’ve provided Ukraine was a relatively easy, non partisan call given the success of the Ukrainian resistance.
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Wags and Lenny
I agree 100%. I have no idea why every defense of Biden has to include a Trump bashing.
Speaking only for myself, it is calling out the hypocrisy. The same people who oooo'ed and ahhhhed about Corporal Bonespurs fake tough guy act are now swooning on their fainting couches that Biden dared say what was true--Putin has got to go.
Were they upset when Drumpf threatened to use nuclear weapons? When he called a murderous dictator a savvy genius? When he "fell in love" with another murderous dictator? Nope, they are wetting their underwear that the current President said a war criminal has got to go. I'm sure the same Buffons would have been upset when the President of the United States called out Hitler or Staliln, so long as that President had a D after his name.
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I think Biden and our allies thought this would be a walkover for the Russians.
Serious question, did the larger intelligence community have the inkling the Russian military was a paper tiger?
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TSmith
Speaking only for myself, I thought Trump said a lot of stupid things and it bothered me. Thankfully, his comments were not made at a time of an international crisis. Again, speaking for myself, my concern is not what Biden said, but how does he back up those words if push turns to shove.
In a time of crisis, which we may find ourselves in, we need a leader that makes as few mistakes as possible. First, I pray this does not escalate, and if it does, I hope the President is up to the task.
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Serious question, did the larger intelligence community have the inkling the Russian military was a paper tiger?
It wasn’t nearly as capable as we were lead to believe during the Cold War. The threat is the nuclear capabilities which is very real
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Speaking only for myself, it is calling out the hypocrisy. The same people who oooo'ed and ahhhhed about Corporal Bonespurs fake tough guy act are now swooning on their fainting couches that Biden dared say what was true--Putin has got to go.
Were they upset when Drumpf threatened to use nuclear weapons? When he called a murderous dictator a savvy genius? When he "fell in love" with another murderous dictator? Nope, they are wetting their underwear that the current President said a war criminal has got to go. I'm sure the same Buffons would have been upset when the President of the United States called out Hitler or Staliln, so long as that President had a D after his name.
I’’m grateful you are only speaking for yourself. Speaking only for myself, there is plenty of hypocrisy and tribalism from both sides on this forum. Your role isn’t a minor one.
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The threat is the nuclear capabilities which is very real
That’s what I would believe to be true too. However, I never thought the ground troops would struggle, surrender and fail to take areas of Ukraine either.
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Serious question, did the larger intelligence community have the inkling the Russian military was a paper tiger?
They probably overestimated the Russian army and they likely underestimated Zelensky and the Ukrainian people.
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The funniest thing I think I’ve seen on Scoop is the Trumpers getting angry over liberals pulling a “yeah but.” You guys did this EVERY DAY for four years lolllllllllllll!
So hilarious.
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Biden's biggest strength is his ability to unite groups when it is possible.
Biden's biggest weakness is he says what is on his mind a little too much.
He's always been this way.
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TSmith
Speaking only for myself, I thought Trump said a lot of stupid things and it bothered me. Thankfully, his comments were not made at a time of an international crisis. Again, speaking for myself, my concern is not what Biden said, but how does he back up those words if push turns to shove.
In a time of crisis, which we may find ourselves in, we need a leader that makes as few mistakes as possible. First, I pray this does not escalate, and if it does, I hope the President is up to the task.
Thank god Trump never faced an international crisis like this. His comments only came during times of national crisis. And boy did he know how to divide the country he was supposed to be leading.
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Ok, let's keep the focus on Ukraine - Biden's comments are fair discussion, but the rest of the political commentary isn't needed.
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The funniest thing I think I’ve seen on Scoop is the Trumpers getting angry over liberals pulling a “yeah but.” You guys did this EVERY DAY for four years lolllllllllllll!
So hilarious.
“Trumpers”…aka anyone here that isn’t unfailing markedly left leaning ::). I can’t speak for everyone but I was never a cheerleader for Trump. I criticized him plenty without losing my mind over every dumb thing he did. To my knowledge neither was Goose or Lenny. It’s stupid catch all write offs of opinion. But totally HILARIOUS.
Biden's biggest strength is his ability to unite groups when it is possible.
Biden's biggest weakness is he says what is on his mind a little too much.
He's always been this way.
That’s a pretty good summation. And there are far worse weaknesses to have. But it can be a bit thorny when you’re sitting in the big chair
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In your opinion. But the remark nonetheless made Biden’s handlers cringe. How do you feel about his other three statements - sending troops to Ukraine, responding to the use of chemical weapons “in kind” and support for the overthrow of the Russian government? The first two statements are patently false and give Putin propaganda free of charge. The third is what we all wish for but should have never been said by an American president - and also give Putin free propaganda to rally the Russians against the West.
I appreciate the fact that Biden is working with NATO rather than doing Putin’s bidding and trying to destroy it.
I appreciate that Biden does not try to extort our Allies for personal gain.
I appreciate that Biden respects the Constitution rather than try to overthrow the government to dispose of it.
I appreciate Biden for putting the interests of America over his own monetary gain.
I appreciate Biden for supporting all Americans regardless of color or sexual orientation.
I appreciate that Biden does not stoop to vile racism that we saw in the Senate this week.
Decency matters!
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TSmith
Speaking only for myself, I thought Trump said a lot of stupid things and it bothered me. Thankfully, his comments were not made at a time of an international crisis. Again, speaking for myself, my concern is not what Biden said, but how does he back up those words if push turns to shove.
In a time of crisis, which we may find ourselves in, we need a leader that makes as few mistakes as possible. First, I pray this does not escalate, and if it does, I hope the President is up to the task.
Again, I don't think it was a mistake at all, but you are free, obviously, to have a different opinion.
The comparison I was making was to highlight the now expected and standard rank hypocrisy of the people that suddenly have the vapors over a statement calling out a murderer.
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A very intelligent man has said, "the biggest threat to this country, is the Democratic Party." This thread validates that quote, hey?
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Ok, let's keep the focus on Ukraine - Biden's comments are fair discussion, but the rest of the political commentary isn't needed.
Yessir.
A very intelligent man has said, "the biggest threat to this country, is the Democratic Party." This thread validates that quote, hey?
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I don't care what people write Rocky although I didn't expect a list about Biden being the Messiah.
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A very intelligent man has said, "the biggest threat to this country, is the Democratic Party." This thread validates that quote, hey?
I feel great sorrow for you. I really do. What a sad life you must have. I hope you find happiness in this scary world
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Yessir.
So you quote 4ever but not Jockey’s post that came just before. Hypocrisy and Tribalism at its finest!
Go Marquette!
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No sweat Rico, really I'm good, hey?
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A very intelligent man has said, "the biggest threat to this country, is the Democratic Party." This thread validates that quote, hey?
I thought the biggest threat was murder hornets 🧐
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Ok, let's keep the focus on Ukraine - Biden's comments are fair discussion, but the rest of the political commentary isn't needed.
I hope everyone takes Rocky's "advice" to heart as I have religiously been reading this thread and appreciate the many on topic comments and links.
I think this was a Biden faux pas based on the administration's walkback. Not necessarily a setback to ending this war but not helpful short term. Perhaps there's some way it can be turned into an advantage. I haven't read of any Russian response to Biden's off the cuff remark.
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Having listened to that portion of Biden's speech it's very clear that wasn’t a gaffe. So what's puzzling to me is whether this was actually written by his speechwriter or if President Biden extemporaneously was venting his disgust for Putin?
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So you quote 4ever but not Jockey’s post that came just before. Hypocrisy and Tribalism at its finest!
Go Marquette!
Your "I'm above all this tribalism" schtick might have more credibility if you a) stopped aping Fox News talking points and b) ever called out the likes of 4ever and rocket, who regularly stray far off topic to insert their right-wing politics conspiracy theories, lies and misinformation here.
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Your "I'm above all this tribalism" schtick might have more credibility if you a) stopped aping Fox News talking points and b) ever called out the likes of 4ever and rocket, who regularly stray far off topic to insert their right-wing politics here.
Right-wing politics are fine and welcomed. It’s the right-wing conspiracy theories, lies and misinformation they spew that have no place here or anywhere.
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So you quote 4ever but not Jockey’s post that came just before. Hypocrisy and Tribalism at its finest!
You know all about tribalism, Lenny, but sure ...
Jockey's post was about what he felt were the differences between Biden and his predecessor. It came after rocky's request and he shouldn't have made it.
Your tribal buddy's post, also coming after rocky's request, was an attack against all Democrats ... and yet it somehow didn't bother your sudden distaste for tribalism.
We Are Marquette!
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Right-wing politics are fine and welcomed. It’s the right-wing conspiracy theories, lies and misinformation they spew that have no place here or anywhere.
Fair
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1. Imo Biden's quote is an unforced error. It feeds into the worst stereotype of American foreign policy that meddles and foments regime change whenever possible, and reinforces Putin's anti-NATO propaganda. Granted, you can't let strongmen with state-run media control the entire conversation, but you don't need to parrot their talking points either. This was an "axis of evil" style blunder. Internal discord was doing our work for us, and that was prematurely used as a victory lap to our own detriment.
2. The notion that any of this is happening because the world doesn't fear/respect Biden is stupid. Its a strange man-crush symptom of our political discourse since Reagan. The rest of the world's actions don't hinge on whether old white men here think our President has a big donger. But ever since the Gipper got credit for getting the Iranian hostages released, we've been plagued by that particular brain rot.
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You know all about tribalism, Lenny, but sure ...
Jockey's post was about what he felt were the differences between Biden and his predecessor. It came after rocky's request and he shouldn't have made it.
Your tribal buddy's post, also coming after rocky's request, was an attack against all Democrats ... and yet it somehow didn't bother your sudden distaste for tribalism.
We Are Marquette!
True, Jockey never attacks all right of the aisle parties and opinions. Very level that one.
Also, I rarely agree with much of what rocket or 4Ever say, but to act like to not call them out is someone endorsement or explicit bias is a bit silly…cause the minute it’s posted 25 castigations or “4 out of 10” ratings come flying in. You visit a thread 1-2 hours after he posts and mocking replies or legit rebuttals (often totally merited) have been posted 10x over.
If jumping into the echo chamber is what is needed to be allowed to disagree with the other side of the aisle and not be labeled “tribal” so be it
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Having listened to that portion of Biden's speech it's very clear that wasn’t a gaffe. So what's puzzling to me is whether this was actually written by his speechwriter or if President Biden extemporaneously was venting his disgust for Putin?
I agree. And walking it back has been SOP for every administration since I can remember. Put something out there that you want to be heard, then claim (ingeniously) that wasn't what you really meant. IMO it was very intentional by the administration to tell Putin his bullying and strongman bullcrap will be the end of him if it continues.
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I agree. And walking it back has been SOP for every administration since I can remember. Put something out there that you want to be heard, then claim (ingeniously) that wasn't what you really meant. IMO it was very intentional by the administration to tell Putin his bullying and strongman bullcrap will be the end of him if it continues.
Partially agree.
I don't think this was some off-the-cuff ad lib. It was said intentionally, but also in a way that offered plausible deniability back home.
And it was said not for Putin or people back home, but for:
a) Allies in Eastern Europe, who want and need assurance that we have their backs, and that we understand - as they know for fact - that they'll never truly be secure as long as Putin remains in power.
b) The Russian elites and bourgeoisie who are suffering as a result of Putin's actions and don't have, and never had, anything to gain from a conquest of Ukraine. This signals to them they have a way out of this, but that way doesn't involve Vlad.
We definitely can debate whether this was a wise strategy, but I do believe it was strategy.
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Partially agree.
I don't think this was some off-the-cuff ad lib. It was said intentionally, but also in a way that offered plausible deniability back home.
And it was said not for Putin or people back home, but for:
a) Allies in Eastern Europe, who want and need assurance that we have their backs, and that we understand - as they know for fact - that they'll never truly be secure as long as Putin remains in power.
b) The Russian elites and bourgeoisie who are suffering as a result of Putin's actions and don't have, and never had, anything to gain from a conquest of Ukraine. This signals to them they have a way out of this, but that way doesn't involve Vlad.
We definitely can debate whether this was a wise strategy, but I do believe it was strategy.
Agreed, reasonable people can disagree whether it was wise or not.
But anyone that seriously* thinks Putin is going to respond to diplomatic niceties or even gives a flying unnatural carnal knowledge about them is delusional. His entire war plan, if it can be called that, was to seize Kyiv within 3 days, assassinate Zelenskyy and Ukraine's other leaders, and (re)install a puppet government. Pearl clutching because Biden correctly said he must go is weak crap.
* as opposed to simply reflexively bitching because Biden is a Democratic President
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So you quote 4ever but not Jockey’s post that came just before. Hypocrisy and Tribalism at its finest!
Go Marquette!
Supporting someone who didn’t attempt a coup is not tribalism. If you are on the same team as people the people who did, expect that to influence people’s opinion of you.
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fluff
I have supported every President, regardless of party, my entire life. I have always believed that is what you do as an American citizen and that will never change.
I cannot agree with you more. Whether Trump, Biden, Obama, Clinton or Bush, or others, I am a firm believer that whoever is President is MY president. He/she was elected constitutionally and my strong view is we owe to our nation to give them a chance. With every President, I hope they're successful, suffering falls and the economy booms.
It's OK to criticize and trust me I do, but at the end of the day, when it matters, Joe Biden is my President for the next three years.
That said, I sometimes think this country has gone off the rails. We're pushing so far to one extreme or the other that things that should get done aren't. And things that probably would be toned down if we weren't tone deaf are happening. We listen to people who echo our views and pay no attention to those who challenge us. It's disgusting and it creates an environment where no matter how things shake out, the country is worse off.
Years ago, a student at Marquette challenged the Jesuit view that we should be empathetic to those who live on the streets around Marquette. His views were extreme and far out of the mainstream of social thought on campus. Yet the Campus newspaper published all of his letters as well as a healthy portion of those who felt otherwise. It became a teaching moment, not just about compassion and empathy but about what our responsibilities to one another might be. Never would have happened if some editor said, "it's too controversial," or if "it's out of the mainstream of thought on campus." We became better because of the debate.
When the New York Times has a staff coup over an op-ed piece from Tom Cotton, it's a sign our country has gone wacky!
As to Ukraine, most of America is out in left field. It's run by the mob and is effectively a kleptocracy. Since the Velvet Revolution, it has more support from the rank-and-file Ukrainian but it's still a heavily flawed country with serious problems. President Biden is correct in not risking World War III over a country whose government has far from overwhelming support. The only reason the nation is supported is that 2/3rds of Ukraine hates the Russians more than the US woke hates conservative Christians.
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When the New York Times has a staff coup over an op-ed piece from Tom Cotton, it's a sign our country has gone wacky!
What a coincidence.
When I saw that a sitting U.S. senator was calling on members of the U.S. military to use their weapons against fellow Americans, I saw that as a sign our country has gone wacky.
But maybe you're right. The reaction of the NY Times staffers was the real wackiness there.
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What a coincidence.
When I saw that a sitting U.S. senator was calling on members of the U.S. military to use their weapons against fellow Americans, I saw that as a sign our country has gone wacky.
But maybe you're right. The reaction of the NY Times staffers was the real outrage there.
Brother Pakuni:
When we're afraid to listen to those who don't agree with us, we head down a path where the military eventually starts shooting -- and it's never good.
You can make all the false parallels you want. You're entitled. But the reality is that when we're afraid to listen, as we are way too often now, we go down a slippery slope toward wackiness. What you and I are arguing is degree.
The greatness of America is our marketplace of ideas.
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Brother Pakuni:
When we're afraid to listen to those who don't agree with us, we head down a path where the military eventually starts shooting -- and it's never good.
You can make all the false parallels you want. You're entitled. But the reality is that when we're afraid to listen, as we are way too often now, we go down a slippery slope toward wackiness. What you and I are arguing is degree.
The greatness of America is our marketplace of ideas.
Not allowing Tom Cotton to espouse his idiot thoughts in the New York Times will lead to the military shooting people?
Talk about slippery slopes toward wackiness.
Sorry, brother dgies, but I'm a firm believer that some ideas are sh*tty and undeserving of publication in a forum such as the NY Times. Certainly you wouldn't argue that David Duke is entitled to an op-ed piece in the Times, right? You wouldn't call staff objections to that "wacky," would you?
Calling for the military to use force against fellow Americans isn't quite white nationalism, but it has been outlawed in this nation's history except in the absolute rarest of circumstances because our Founding Fathers recognized it as a sh*tty idea. The Times, nor anyone else, need not be in the business of giving a massive platform to such sh*tty ideas. If Tom Cotton wants to express his terrible views on the marketplace of ideas, he has lots of opportunity, up to and including on the floor of the U.S. Senate. He isn't owed a spot in the Times, and saying that is not wacky.
An irony here is that you defend Cotton's op-ed as part of the "marketplace of ideas," but when Times staffers contribute to the marketplace with their ideas - that Cotton doesn't deserve use of that platform to urge military action against fellow Americans - well, then, that's just wacky.
Marketplace for me but not for thee?