MUScoop

MUScoop => The Superbar => COVID-19 => Topic started by: MU82 on November 25, 2021, 06:01:20 PM

Title: Omicron variant
Post by: MU82 on November 25, 2021, 06:01:20 PM
Oh great ...

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/11/25/world/covid-vaccine-boosters-mandates?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20211125&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=75376&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa#variant-south-africa-covid

JOHANNESBURG — A concerning new variant of the coronavirus, whose mutations evidence a “big jump in evolution,” is driving a spike in new Covid-19 infections in South Africa, scientists said on Thursday.

In the last 36 hours after observing an increase in infections in South Africa’s economic hub, the Gauteng province, scientists detected the B1.1.529 variant. So far, 22 positive cases have been identified in South Africa, according to South Africa’s National Institute for Communicable Diseases.

Since the onset of the pandemic, a number of variants have emerged. One underlying concern about new variants is whether they will stymie progress against the pandemic or whether they will limit the vaccine’s effectiveness. South African scientists will meet with the World Health Organization technical team on Friday, where authorities will assign a letter of the Greek alphabet to this one.

Botswana’s health ministry confirmed in a statement that four cases of the new variant were detected in people who were all fully vaccinated. All four were tested before their planned travel. One sample was also detected in Hong Kong, carried by a traveler from South Africa, South African scientists said.

With over 1,200 new infections, South Africa’s daily infection rate is much lower than in Germany, where new cases are driving a wave. However, the density of mutations on this new variant raises fears that it could be highly contagious, leading scientists to sound the alarm early.

“This variant did surprise us, it has a big jump in evolution, many more mutations than we expected, especially after a very severe third wave of Delta,” said Tulio de Oliveira, director of the KwaZulu-Natal Research and Innovation Sequencing Platform.

The B1.1.529 variant has a “very unusual constellation of mutations,” with more than 30 mutations in the spike protein alone, said Mr. de Oliveira. On the ACE2 receptor — the protein that helps to create an entry point for the coronavirus to infect human cells — the new variant has 10 mutations. In comparison, the Beta variant has three, the Delta variant has two, said Mr. de Oliveira.

Displaying mutations that might resist neutralization, scientists are also still unclear how effective existing vaccines will be against the new variant. The variant shares similarities with the Lambda and Beta variants, which are associated with an innate evasion of immunity, said Richard Lessells, an infectious diseases specialist at the KwaZulu-Natal Research and Innovation Sequencing Platform.

“All these things are what give us some concern that this variant might have not just enhanced transmissibility, so spread more efficiently, but might also be able to get around parts of the immune system and the protection we have in our immune system,” said Mr. Lessells.

The new variant has largely been detected among young people, the cohort that also has the lowest vaccination rate in South Africa. Just over a quarter of those ages between 18 and 34 are vaccinated, said Dr. Joe Phaahla, the country’s minister of health.

While cases of the new variant are mainly concentrated in the country’s economic hub, particularly in the capital Pretoria, it is “only a matter of time” before the virus spreads across the country as schools close and families prepare to travel for the holiday season, said Mr. Phaahla.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: Warriors4ever on November 25, 2021, 10:40:37 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-59424269

UK putting six African countries back on the red list, and will be instituting hotel quarantine for arrivals.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 26, 2021, 01:11:05 AM
Oh great ...

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/11/25/world/covid-vaccine-boosters-mandates?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20211125&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=75376&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa#variant-south-africa-covid

JOHANNESBURG — A concerning new variant of the coronavirus, whose mutations evidence a “big jump in evolution,” is driving a spike in new Covid-19 infections in South Africa, scientists said on Thursday.

In the last 36 hours after observing an increase in infections in South Africa’s economic hub, the Gauteng province, scientists detected the B1.1.529 variant. So far, 22 positive cases have been identified in South Africa, according to South Africa’s National Institute for Communicable Diseases.

Since the onset of the pandemic, a number of variants have emerged. One underlying concern about new variants is whether they will stymie progress against the pandemic or whether they will limit the vaccine’s effectiveness. South African scientists will meet with the World Health Organization technical team on Friday, where authorities will assign a letter of the Greek alphabet to this one.

Botswana’s health ministry confirmed in a statement that four cases of the new variant were detected in people who were all fully vaccinated. All four were tested before their planned travel. One sample was also detected in Hong Kong, carried by a traveler from South Africa, South African scientists said.

With over 1,200 new infections, South Africa’s daily infection rate is much lower than in Germany, where new cases are driving a wave. However, the density of mutations on this new variant raises fears that it could be highly contagious, leading scientists to sound the alarm early.

“This variant did surprise us, it has a big jump in evolution, many more mutations than we expected, especially after a very severe third wave of Delta,” said Tulio de Oliveira, director of the KwaZulu-Natal Research and Innovation Sequencing Platform.

The B1.1.529 variant has a “very unusual constellation of mutations,” with more than 30 mutations in the spike protein alone, said Mr. de Oliveira. On the ACE2 receptor — the protein that helps to create an entry point for the coronavirus to infect human cells — the new variant has 10 mutations. In comparison, the Beta variant has three, the Delta variant has two, said Mr. de Oliveira.

Displaying mutations that might resist neutralization, scientists are also still unclear how effective existing vaccines will be against the new variant. The variant shares similarities with the Lambda and Beta variants, which are associated with an innate evasion of immunity, said Richard Lessells, an infectious diseases specialist at the KwaZulu-Natal Research and Innovation Sequencing Platform.

“All these things are what give us some concern that this variant might have not just enhanced transmissibility, so spread more efficiently, but might also be able to get around parts of the immune system and the protection we have in our immune system,” said Mr. Lessells.

The new variant has largely been detected among young people, the cohort that also has the lowest vaccination rate in South Africa. Just over a quarter of those ages between 18 and 34 are vaccinated, said Dr. Joe Phaahla, the country’s minister of health.

While cases of the new variant are mainly concentrated in the country’s economic hub, particularly in the capital Pretoria, it is “only a matter of time” before the virus spreads across the country as schools close and families prepare to travel for the holiday season, said Mr. Phaahla.

Sweet nightmare fuel.  Probably already too late to stop it.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: jesmu84 on November 26, 2021, 11:57:51 AM
It's so nice to remember that our country - as well as a conglomerate of first world countries - decided NOT to waive patent rights on the vaccines, which would have permitted significant production and vaccination across the globe. Which, in turn, would have reduced spread and decreased likelihood of mutations.

Unfettered capitalism baby!
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: JWags85 on November 26, 2021, 12:02:52 PM
South Africa’s saying the breakthrough cases aren’t showing to be severe, FWIW. Could be Delta 2.0?
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 26, 2021, 12:06:29 PM
South Africa’s saying the breakthrough cases aren’t showing to be severe, FWIW. Could be Delta 2.0?

It’s also REALLY early in the data collection.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on November 26, 2021, 12:38:18 PM
WHO already changed the name from nu to opinion.

Nu/new variant was already memed to death.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 26, 2021, 01:30:32 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-59424269

UK putting six African countries back on the red list, and will be instituting hotel quarantine for arrivals.

Will the administration be called racist and xenophobic for putting public safety first with this ban?  Doubtful.

https://twitter.com/DefiantLs/status/1464312822913982471
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 26, 2021, 01:57:50 PM
Will the administration be called racist and xenophobic for putting public safety first with this ban?  Doubtful.

https://twitter.com/DefiantLs/status/1464312822913982471


That ban wasn’t Covid related. Which you either didn’t know, or you did know but just made an apples and oranges comparison for a political point.

Either way it makes you look pretty dumb. 
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: reinko on November 26, 2021, 02:02:38 PM
I’ve been a Scott Gottleib fan throughout the entirety of the pandemic, of course nothing definitive yet on the severity (if any) of this new variant.

https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1464322510997049346?s=21
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: MU82 on November 26, 2021, 02:13:32 PM
I’ve been a Scott Gottleib fan throughout the entirety of the pandemic, of course nothing definitive yet on the severity (if any) of this new variant.

https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1464322510997049346?s=21

Thanks, reinko. I appreciate Gottlieb, too, and this does give reason for optimism. But it's obviously too early to make any declarations, and this new variant does need to be taken seriously (and Gottlieb isn't saying anything different).
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 26, 2021, 03:06:00 PM
One infection of the new variant (B.1.1.529) was detected in Belgium. IMO that's that for global spread.

I read a while ago that the US has limited ability to test/identify for new variants, but I'm not sure how true that is.

https://www.demorgen.be/nieuws/een-besmetting-met-nieuwe-nu-variant-bevestigd-in-belgie-eerste-geval-in-europa~b6c1932d/

> One infection with the new corona variant B.1.1.529, dubbed the 'now variant', has been confirmed in our country. It concerns an unvaccinated traveler who returned from Egypt and tested positive on November 22. That is what Minister of Health Frank Vandenbroucke (Vooruit) says. "Caution is necessary, but don't panic." This is the first confirmed infection with the variant in Europe.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: Warriors4ever on November 26, 2021, 04:05:55 PM
A traveler from South Africa doing hotel quarantine in Hong  Kong passed it to another person doing quarantine across the hall. It showed up on the day four test for the first traveler, and the day eight test fir the second one.
Delta did the same in Australia several times.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: Goose on November 26, 2021, 04:08:55 PM
Gottlieb has been my gold standard guy since the pandemic broke. While I was happy to hear his thoughts on the new variant, the quick decisions made by countries and stock market response has me concerned. The concern level seems far greater than the other variants thus far. Definitely getting my booster next week.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 26, 2021, 04:16:38 PM
Gottlieb has been my good standard guy since the pandemic broke. While I was happy to hear his thoughts on the new variant, the quick decisions made by countries and stock market response has me concerned. The concern level seems far greater than the other variants thus far. Definitely getting my booster next week.

Hopefully the vaccines are effective.  Too early to know.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: JWags85 on November 26, 2021, 07:30:59 PM
I was in Belgium yesterday and will be back there tomorrow afternoon, so this will be interesting.  Given I’m 3 shots in and Belgium is heavy handed in their COVID protocol, I’m not overly concerned. 

My colleague told me Belgium instituted all bars and restaurants have a mandatory 11PM closing and no more than 6 per table.

My wife has a work trip 2 days after we get home she’s anxious about, but provided we get negative tests before heading back, which I’m sure we will, should be fine
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: Warriors4ever on November 26, 2021, 07:54:39 PM
The US has added Belgium to its Do Not Travel list.
I understand some indoor Christmas Markets are being cancelled.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: jesmu84 on November 26, 2021, 07:56:10 PM
I don't understand the curfew thing. Covid only comes out late at night?
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: Hards Alumni on November 26, 2021, 08:24:47 PM
I don't understand the curfew thing. Covid only comes out late at night?

work is essential, bars, restaurants, parties... not so much.

At least that is my thought process.

BTW the travel bans are stupid.  Either you shut down the borders to the US entirely, or you're wasting your time... assuming it isn't here already.  Which is more than likely is.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: MU82 on November 26, 2021, 09:28:23 PM
I don't understand the curfew thing. Covid only comes out late at night?

The theory is that the later in the night it is, the less inhibited people are, the less likely they are to think even one iota about safety. But yeah, it seems kinda like window dressing.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: Warriors4ever on November 27, 2021, 07:14:17 AM
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59442149

Dozens of people test positive on a flight from South Africa to the Netherlands.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 27, 2021, 08:15:58 AM
It's so nice to remember that our country - as well as a conglomerate of first world countries - decided NOT to waive patent rights on the vaccines, which would have permitted significant production and vaccination across the globe. Which, in turn, would have reduced spread and decreased likelihood of mutations.

Unfettered capitalism baby!


The limits on vaccination in South Africa has been demand...not supply.  They have been turning away shots.

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2021-11-24/exclusive-south-africa-delays-covid-vaccine-deliveries-as-inoculations-slow

"South Africa has asked Johnson & Johnson and Pfizer to delay delivery of COVID-19 vaccines because it now has too much stock, health ministry officials said, as vaccine hesitancy slows an inoculation campaign."
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: Warriors4ever on November 27, 2021, 08:24:47 AM
Yes that is true for South Africa in particular. Their demand has been low. Until this variant, they had a low rate of infection.
Many other countries though need vaccine assistance.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: jesmu84 on November 27, 2021, 08:40:26 AM

The limits on vaccination in South Africa has been demand...not supply.  They have been turning away shots.

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2021-11-24/exclusive-south-africa-delays-covid-vaccine-deliveries-as-inoculations-slow

"South Africa has asked Johnson & Johnson and Pfizer to delay delivery of COVID-19 vaccines because it now has too much stock, health ministry officials said, as vaccine hesitancy slows an inoculation campaign."

Mind providing updates for every other country on earth?
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 27, 2021, 08:46:03 AM
Mind providing updates for every other country on earth?

You have the Google.

My point is that vaccine hesitancy is probably a larger problem than vaccine supply. 
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: forgetful on November 27, 2021, 12:34:48 PM
Mind providing updates for every other country on earth?

https://covidbehaviors.org (https://covidbehaviors.org)

This site would appear to confirm that the biggest problem around the world is vaccine hesitancy, not supply.

That is coupled with the difficulty of vaccinating individuals at all in some countries, as it is difficult to get the vaccine to the individuals. Really the only option for many parts of the world are the J&J vaccine or Astrazeneca.

Personally, I don't see a lot of evidence that US patent protections are impacting vaccine delivery to a major extent at this point in time. Earlier in the pandemic, I think it was, but not so sure anymore.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: reinko on November 27, 2021, 01:26:00 PM
https://covidbehaviors.org (https://covidbehaviors.org)

This site would appear to confirm that the biggest problem around the world is vaccine hesitancy, not supply.

That is coupled with the difficulty of vaccinating individuals at all in some countries, as it is difficult to get the vaccine to the individuals. Really the only option for many parts of the world are the J&J vaccine or Astrazeneca.

Personally, I don't see a lot of evidence that US patent protections are impacting vaccine delivery to a major extent at this point in time. Earlier in the pandemic, I think it was, but not so sure anymore.

Thanks forgetful, any and all insight you have on this new variant would be much appreciated
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on November 27, 2021, 02:40:05 PM
A friend's son is in South Africa for school.  He's trying to get home before Monday.  Is flying from SA to Ethiopia via Dublin.  Then Ethiopia to NYC to ORD.  Gets in Monday morning if all goes to plan.  Crazy.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: Skatastrophy on November 27, 2021, 02:51:01 PM
A friend's son is in South Africa for school.  He's trying to get home before Monday.  Is flying from SA to Ethiopia via Dublin.  Then Ethiopia to NYC to ORD.  Gets in Monday morning if all goes to plan.  Crazy.

That's a tough one. I would consider staying in SA rather than potentially getting caught mid-trip while governments figure out what they're doing here. Best of luck to him, though.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: Warriors4ever on November 27, 2021, 02:53:19 PM
Ok I do sincerely hope he is fine, but part of me is also thinking about all the places he could be infecting people… I’m never sure why these measures don’t take effect sooner, tbh.
I do hope he plans to isolate and test once he makes it back.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: reinko on November 27, 2021, 03:57:30 PM
All anecdotal, but the latest I could find.

https://twitter.com/dkthomp/status/1464703536961409027?s=21
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: forgetful on November 27, 2021, 04:44:02 PM
Thanks forgetful, any and all insight you have on this new variant would be much appreciated

Sadly, no major insight besides what most have already seen/heard. Omnicron has a large assortment of mutations to the spike protein (32 mutations). Some of these mutations have already been identified in other variants that enhance transmission.

I think most of the concern right now is being driven by the significant number of mutations that may enable it to escape vaccines, and how rapidly it seems to be spreading in South Africa. Way to early to have substantial data on exactly how this variant will behave, or how much it can escape the vaccines. That data is coming very quickly though. It is crazy how much data is collected and how fast it is collected on these variants.

For those interested in seeing more details on different variants, and mutations. These two sites are pretty good.

https://covdb.stanford.edu/page/mutation-viewer/ (https://covdb.stanford.edu/page/mutation-viewer/) This one allows you to see the genomes of all variants, as well as visuals of spike protein mutations (look how crazy Omnicron is).

https://covariants.org/variants/21K.Omicron (https://covariants.org/variants/21K.Omicron) This link is specific to Omnicron, but the covariants.org site has information on all variants and all known mutations too. Does a good job of running down what we know about each specific mutation (where data exists).

The good news is that the mRNA technology allows them to adapt to new variants very quickly to generate new and improved vaccines.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: jesmu84 on November 27, 2021, 10:42:57 PM
https://covidbehaviors.org (https://covidbehaviors.org)

This site would appear to confirm that the biggest problem around the world is vaccine hesitancy, not supply.

That is coupled with the difficulty of vaccinating individuals at all in some countries, as it is difficult to get the vaccine to the individuals. Really the only option for many parts of the world are the J&J vaccine or Astrazeneca.

Personally, I don't see a lot of evidence that US patent protections are impacting vaccine delivery to a major extent at this point in time. Earlier in the pandemic, I think it was, but not so sure anymore.

Right.

So when we could have attempted to avoid these types of variants.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: Warriors4ever on November 27, 2021, 11:16:13 PM
https://thehill.com/policy/international/583254-israel-closes-borders-to-all-foreigners-due-to-omicron-variant?fbclid=IwAR1aeOzcPYH95iJvoNMjiyUBUwPGR7z5AMmHrfItLWNZtybtI39XLwviZRg

Israel closing its borders to foreigners for two weeks.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 28, 2021, 07:05:10 AM
So, I have been seeing that this variant is much more transmisable, but is causing milder symptoms.

If that is actually the case, is this what endemic Covid looks like?  Wouldn't we want this to be the most dominant strain?
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: real chili 83 on November 28, 2021, 08:03:38 AM
We have family traveling in SA. Return home delayed at least a week.  Probably longer.

When they return, they’ll be spreading throughout Appleton, Neenah, and Madison.  Welcome to the pandemic.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: forgetful on November 28, 2021, 11:08:37 AM
So, I have been seeing that this variant is much more transmisable, but is causing milder symptoms.

If that is actually the case, is this what endemic Covid looks like?  Wouldn't we want this to be the most dominant strain?

The problem right now is sample size. Most of those infected have been young, otherwise healthy, and/or vaccinated. So extrapolating those symptoms to unhealthy or unvaccinated is unwise.

For instance, if rapid heart rate is a prevailing symptom, there will be a lot of deaths in 40+ year olds whose system/hearts can't take it.

Let's hope it is a transmissible milder version. But not sufficient data at all for that.

The reason for the concern is the number/cluster of mutations in a couple recognition loops recognized by monoclonal antibody treatments and neutralizing antibodies (designed against original variant). They suggest, but do not prove that it can escape prior infections/vaccination. Notably, the same recognition loops are involved in ACE2 binding, so there is a bit of give and take.

Other mutations enhance viral load.

So you may have a situation where there is high viral load (so high transmissibility), but lower ACE2 binding (so possibly milder symptoms), but also escaping existing antibodies/immune response.

But it's also possible that compensatory mutations lead to equal ACE2 binding so same level of symptoms...or new mutations emerge in this variant to enhance cellular entry. The bottom line right now is we don't know a lot, but it signifies that SARS-COV2 isn't done with us yet.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: Billy Hoyle on November 28, 2021, 02:26:20 PM
All anecdotal, but the latest I could find.

https://twitter.com/dkthomp/status/1464703536961409027?s=21

Nah, we have to panic now that we’ve gotten our latest delivery of the Variant of the Month Club. And that panic includes once racist but now necessary and proper travel bans.  https://twitter.com/DefiantLs/status/1465049896592056335/photo/1
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: 4everwarriors on November 28, 2021, 03:07:19 PM
https://thehill.com/policy/international/583254-israel-closes-borders-to-all-foreigners-due-to-omicron-variant?fbclid=IwAR1aeOzcPYH95iJvoNMjiyUBUwPGR7z5AMmHrfItLWNZtybtI39XLwviZRg

Israel closing its borders to foreigners for two weeks.




Guess wee haveant learnt nothin' orr our Mexican border woulda bin klosed bye now, aina?
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: forgetful on November 28, 2021, 05:10:59 PM
Nah, we have to panic now that we’ve gotten our latest delivery of the Variant of the Month Club. And that panic includes once racist but now necessary and proper travel bans.  https://twitter.com/DefiantLs/status/1465049896592056335/photo/1

Did you really link to a tweet that references a Harris tweet about the Muslim travel ban extension on January 31st 2020, that extended existing Muslim nation travel ban that was extended to include Eritrea, Kyrgyzstan, Myanmar, Nigeria, Sudan, and Tanzania?

Do better.

And I don't see anyone panicking. I see leaders making prudent decisions, to stem spread while they collect more information that can guide long term decisions. Well, Israel may be panicking.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on November 28, 2021, 05:14:59 PM
Did you really link to a tweet that references a Harris tweet about the Muslim travel ban extension on January 31st 2020, that extended existing Muslim nation travel ban that was extended to include Eritrea, Kyrgyzstan, Myanmar, Nigeria, Sudan, and Tanzania?

Do better.

And I don't see anyone panicking. I see leaders making prudent decisions, to stem spread while they collect more information that can guide long term decisions. Well, Israel may be panicking.
"Blacks are bad" is about all Billy CAN do.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: 🏀 on November 28, 2021, 08:16:03 PM
"Blacks are bad" is about all Billy CAN do.

Limiting it blacks?

Anyone that’s not a white, boomer-aged male is bad, if a big enough threat to his insecurities.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on November 28, 2021, 08:20:35 PM
Did you really link to a tweet that references a Harris tweet about the Muslim travel ban extension on January 31st 2020, that extended existing Muslim nation travel ban that was extended to include Eritrea, Kyrgyzstan, Myanmar, Nigeria, Sudan, and Tanzania?

Do better.

And I don't see anyone panicking. I see leaders making prudent decisions, to stem spread while they collect more information that can guide long term decisions. Well, Israel may be panicking.

This was pointed out to him a couple days ago when he posted something similar.

Alas I don’t believe he can “do better.”
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: Jockey on November 29, 2021, 05:19:16 PM
Mind providing updates for every other country on earth?

Excuuuuse me. Snark is MY job here.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 01, 2021, 02:41:14 PM
Confirmed in the US.  California.

edit: added link

https://www.wpr.org/california-has-reported-first-u-s-case-omicron-variant
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 01, 2021, 02:46:46 PM
Confirmed in the US.  California.

edit: added link

https://www.wpr.org/california-has-reported-first-u-s-case-omicron-variant

Which means it's been spreading here for at least a week...likely.  We'll see how this goes - hopefully it is just mild, and not long term symptoms.  But I'll believe that when I see it.

Given that everyone is tired, most are vaxxed (not much good against Omi), and the holidays, this *is* going to spread like wildfire.  The question is whether it's a "mild flu", or something a whole lot worse.  Sigh.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: tower912 on December 01, 2021, 02:53:48 PM
There are indications that the triple vaxxed stand a decent chance.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 01, 2021, 02:56:39 PM
Which means it's been spreading here for at least a week...likely.  We'll see how this goes - hopefully it is just mild, and not long term symptoms.  But I'll believe that when I see it.

Given that everyone is tired, most are vaxxed (not much good against Omi), and the holidays, this *is* going to spread like wildfire.  The question is whether it's a "mild flu", or something a whole lot worse.  Sigh.

Eh, I'm not sure all of circumstances you're suggesting are necessarily true.  We have very little information so far, and the information we do have is from a very limited number of samples.  I've included another link that I think is worth a read.

https://www.wpr.org/mystery-where-omicron-came-and-why-it-matters
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: tower912 on December 01, 2021, 03:02:48 PM
Pfizer pill targets the spikes.   CEO is confident it will be effective against omicron.   In general, Pfizer seems more optimistic than Moderna.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: MU82 on December 01, 2021, 03:47:50 PM
There are indications that the triple vaxxed stand a decent chance.

Like you, I'm thrice vaxxed and have had Covid ... so I think we're invincible, yes?
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 01, 2021, 03:54:03 PM
Like you, I'm thrice vaxxed and have had Covid ... so I think we're invincible, yes?


As you as you take the ivermectin. 
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: tower912 on December 01, 2021, 04:06:05 PM
Take it like a multi-vitamin.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on December 01, 2021, 04:15:49 PM
Which means it's been spreading here for at least a week...likely.  We'll see how this goes - hopefully it is just mild, and not long term symptoms.  But I'll believe that when I see it.

Given that everyone is tired, most are vaxxed (not much good against Omi), and the holidays, this *is* going to spread like wildfire.  The question is whether it's a "mild flu", or something a whole lot worse.  Sigh.
Is this confirmed? Admittedly I haven't been following it particularly closely, but it seems like only speculation currently, no?
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 01, 2021, 04:24:19 PM
I'm not trying to ring alarm bells, or cause panic, not enough is known - including about vaxxed. But from my reading it does look concerning that this will spread quickly.  As I mentioned, the holidays and covid exhausted people are going to play right into this grimy little variants hands.   
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: Warriors4ever on December 01, 2021, 08:34:15 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/news/worldwide-health-alert-cardiologist-says-223629945.html

Cardiologist in Israel likely got infected attending a conference in London.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: MU82 on December 01, 2021, 09:01:28 PM
I'm not trying to ring alarm bells, or cause panic, not enough is known - including about vaxxed. But from my reading it does look concerning that this will spread quickly.  As I mentioned, the holidays and covid exhausted people are going to play right into this grimy little variants hands.

But it’s their choice! It only affects them!
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: pbiflyer on December 02, 2021, 07:43:43 AM
Our company just extended its travel restrictions through Q1 of 2022 due to rising cases in Europe and the omicron variant.
There goes our corporate meetings in Madrid in February. No side trip to Barcelona for me this year.  >:(
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 02, 2021, 07:48:48 AM
Our company just extended its travel restrictions through Q1 of 2022 due to rising cases in Europe and the omicron variant.
There goes our corporate meetings in Madrid in February. No side trip to Barcelona for me this year.  >:(

Also Biden extended the mask mandate on public transportation until March.

Personally, I think waiting and figuring out what Omicron means for the next couple of months means before making these decisions would have been more prudent than just extending the mandate.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: pbiflyer on December 02, 2021, 08:05:09 AM
Also Biden extended the mask mandate on public transportation until March.

Personally, I think waiting and figuring out what Omicron means for the next couple of months means before making these decisions would have been more prudent than just extending the mandate.
Yeah, unfortunately a meeting for 700+ people has to be planned well in advance. I am hoping it is too late to cancel and they go ahead with it on a voluntary basis, but they will probably eat the cost and go virtual.
But mandates can be canceled, so hopefully, this variant isn't as bad as delta and mandates rescinded. I will take a more transmissible, but less harmful variant.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 02, 2021, 11:03:57 AM
https://www.channel3000.com/omicron-variant-found-in-midwest-as-minnesota-confirms-first-case/?alert=3250397&alert_type=banner

Yeah, as I said, its everywhere, we are just really bad at testing for variants.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: Skatastrophy on December 02, 2021, 12:20:05 PM
Also Biden extended the mask mandate on public transportation until March.

Personally, I think waiting and figuring out what Omicron means for the next couple of months means before making these decisions would have been more prudent than just extending the mandate.

Disagree. People are nasty and public transportation masking should be permanent.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: MU82 on December 02, 2021, 02:20:15 PM
Changed the thread title to reflect the name of the variant (there wasn't one when I started it). Will need that "new variant" title for the next new variant!
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 02, 2021, 02:27:56 PM
Disagree. People are nasty and public transportation masking should be permanent.

Those nasty people don't stop being nasty once they get to a crowded store, restaurant, bar, indoor sporting event, or work location.  You do see the stupidity here, right?

Also, if you've been on the subway in NYC or eaten food on a flight you know that not everyone is compliant.

If you want to continue to wear one because people are nasty, that's your prerogative.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: #UnleashSean on December 02, 2021, 02:35:41 PM
Disagree. People are nasty and public transportation masking should be permanent.

That's a wild take.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: JWags85 on December 02, 2021, 03:16:06 PM
Disagree. People are nasty and public transportation masking should be permanent.

If you've been on a flight longer than 2 hours since COVID and you still have this take, hoo boy.  Might get on well with my old neighbor who wore latex gloves to do her grocery shopping.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Skatastrophy on December 02, 2021, 06:27:47 PM
If you've been on a flight longer than 2 hours since COVID and you still have this take, hoo boy.  Might get on well with my old neighbor who wore latex gloves to do her grocery shopping.

Hours of wearing a mask don't bother me, but I'm not too worried about flights with the air turnover systems they have.

I'm more talking about the subway where people are on top of each other. Re: Hard's comment, it's clear he doesn't live in a city where he commutes via public transit. Every other situation he listed (crowded store, restaurant, bar, indoor sporting event, or work location) has better air exchange and more distance between people than underground train cars or busses in major cities. It's the only way to get around if you're underprivileged (or anyone, really), and people are packed in.

Masking compliance on the L in Chicago is pretty great from what I've seen. I expect to see it from now on during flu season in the fall.

Honest question: Why do masks bother you guys? Do you have trouble breathing in them? Is it a fit thing where you haven't found a comfortable mask yet? Or more of a feeling?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: jesmu84 on December 02, 2021, 06:35:41 PM
Hours of wearing a mask don't bother me, but I'm not too worried about flights with the air turnover systems they have.

I'm more talking about the subway where people are on top of each other. Re: Hard's comment, it's clear he doesn't live in a city where he commutes via public transit. Every other situation he listed (crowded store, restaurant, bar, indoor sporting event, or work location) has better air exchange and more distance between people than underground train cars or busses in major cities. It's the only way to get around if you're underprivileged (or anyone, really), and people are packed in.

Masking compliance on the L in Chicago is pretty great from what I've seen. I expect to see it from now on during flu season in the fall.

Honest question: Why do masks bother you guys? Do you have trouble breathing in them? Is it a fit thing where you haven't found a comfortable mask yet? Or more of a feeling?

Fear, paranoia and control
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 02, 2021, 06:40:05 PM
Fear, paranoia and control

Bullsh*t.

They're uncomfortable and I hate breathing through them.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Skatastrophy on December 02, 2021, 06:42:50 PM
Bullsh*t.

They're uncomfortable and I hate breathing through them.

My wife tried a few different sizes and that really helped.

We don't have to agree, just saying that I barely notice when I have one so it may be a fitment thing.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 02, 2021, 06:45:20 PM
It's not a fit thing.  Honestly, almost everyone I know hates wearing one.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Skatastrophy on December 02, 2021, 06:49:19 PM
It's not a fit thing.  Honestly, almost everyone I know hates wearing one.

Got it. I have only run into feelings that strong except with my rural inlaws, and that's mostly based on their politics (I think, though it may be obesity). Edit: I'm not taking a shot at you, just thinking out loud.

I guess the huge benefits to public health outweigh the minimal inconvenience of having to remember to toss one in my pocket.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 02, 2021, 06:52:13 PM
Got it. I have only run into feelings that strong except with my rural inlaws, and that's mostly based on their politics (I think, though it may be obesity). Edit: I'm not taking a shot at you, just thinking out loud.

I guess the huge benefits to public health outweigh the minimal inconvenience of having to remember to toss one in my pocket.

I wear one all of the time because it is required at work.  Never when I don't have to.  And these feelings about masks are from people of all political colors.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: MU82 on December 02, 2021, 06:56:18 PM
Doctors wear masks 10-12 hours a day. Nurses wear masks for 8+ hours. Those who work near chemicals 8-10 hours. And this was before any of us ever heard of Covid.

Thankfully, doctors don't just say, "Screw it, I hate wearing 'em," during surgery.

Personally, I've gotten to the point where wearing one doesn't bother me very much. If I didn't have to wear one in public places, great. But I do, and that's OK too.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 02, 2021, 06:59:11 PM
Doctors wear masks 10-12 hours a day. Nurses wear masks for 8+ hours. Those who work near chemicals 8-10 hours. And this was before any of us ever heard of Covid.

Thankfully, doctors don't just say, "Screw it, I hate wearing 'em," during surgery.

Personally, I've gotten to the point where wearing one doesn't bother me very much. If I didn't have to wear one in public places, great. But I do, and that's OK too.


Good for them and good for you.

I don't feel the same way.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 02, 2021, 07:03:43 PM
Perhaps I'm a germaphobe, but I'm with Skat on public trains/busses.  Now that masks are "acceptable", they should forever be required in those particular germ spreading environments (regardless of covid).

Last flight I was on (last Fri), there were so many sickos coughing it was disturbing.  I wish we could have gotten to a situation where if you're slightly sick - stay home.  But since we're not there - wear a mask.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Skatastrophy on December 02, 2021, 07:16:29 PM
I wear one all of the time because it is required at work.  Never when I don't have to.  And these feelings about masks are from people of all political colors.

I may feel differently if I were in your shoes. I work from home these days, sometimes visiting customer's offices for a few hours.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: tower912 on December 02, 2021, 07:50:16 PM
I've started wearing my mask while driving alone in my car just to amuse myself.   Thanks, wags.

Masks have never bothered me.   Catching COVID 13 months ago reinforced it.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 02, 2021, 08:11:03 PM
Wearin' masks durin' foreplay can bee a reel turn-on, hey?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Skatastrophy on December 02, 2021, 08:17:44 PM
Wearin' masks durin' foreplay can bee a reel turn-on, hey?

Says the guy getting paid to poke people in the mouth. The oldest profession, eh?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 02, 2021, 08:46:19 PM
My wife tried a few different sizes and that really helped.

We don't have to agree, just saying that I barely notice when I have one so it may be a fitment thing.

I don't live in a big city.  I live in Dane County, and everywhere I go I have to wear one.  I've been wearing one since the pandemic started, and I never worked from home.  I wore one in NYC in the subway, and it was miserable.  You guys want to wear one forever, be my guest.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 02, 2021, 08:52:28 PM
Doctors wear masks 10-12 hours a day. Nurses wear masks for 8+ hours. Those who work near chemicals 8-10 hours. And this was before any of us ever heard of Covid.

Thankfully, doctors don't just say, "Screw it, I hate wearing 'em," during surgery.

Personally, I've gotten to the point where wearing one doesn't bother me very much. If I didn't have to wear one in public places, great. But I do, and that's OK too.

This is such a moronic argument I don't know where to start this time with you.  Doctors and nurses are professionals and signed up for heavy PPE use when they were in school in their 20s.

You're a retired writer who is in his 60s or 70s who doesn't have to be inconvenienced by this in the least except when you go to the store or for fun.

So miss me with your judgements and stop comparing average people to doctors and nurses.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on December 02, 2021, 08:53:57 PM
Bullsh*t.

They're uncomfortable and I hate breathing through them.
Pretty sure jes was being sarcastic. Trust me, I majored in sarcasm.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: JWags85 on December 02, 2021, 09:13:17 PM
This is such a moronic argument I don't know where to start this time with you.  Doctors and nurses are professionals and signed up for heavy PPE use when they were in school in their 20s.

Not to mention in normal times, doctors aren’t constantly masked.  They go in and out often.  And standing in a climate controlled lab or office in a mask is way different than a mask around and moving in normal life.

Hours of wearing a mask don't bother me, but I'm not too worried about flights with the air turnover systems they have.

I'm more talking about the subway where people are on top of each other. Re: Hard's comment, it's clear he doesn't live in a city where he commutes via public transit. Every other situation he listed (crowded store, restaurant, bar, indoor sporting event, or work location) has better air exchange and more distance between people than underground train cars or busses in major cities. It's the only way to get around if you're underprivileged (or anyone, really), and people are packed in.

Masking compliance on the L in Chicago is pretty great from what I've seen. I expect to see it from now on during flu season in the fall.

Honest question: Why do masks bother you guys? Do you have trouble breathing in them? Is it a fit thing where you haven't found a comfortable mask yet? Or more of a feeling?

I would place a big money bet on this being not at all true.  People say the same thing about the “courteous” Asian culture and countries and wearing masks regularly and I’ve mentioned here before that it’s still quite rare to see it.  It’s not going to catch on here. Go anywhere masks are optional or even required in a general sense and you’ll get your idea of how many people will be masking for general health once this has passed.

As for your follow up, My wife and I have tried 10+ different kinds. And I have 1-2 I “prefer” but it still sucks.  I don’t enjoy breathing through them, it’s uncomfortable if it’s warm at all, indoors or out, and it just feels unnatural.  Walking through an airport or train station carrying bags, going up stairs, anything with travel absolutely BLOWS when you have a mask on your face.  And I’m not someone who gets winded easily.

I envy those who find it to be no big deal.  But it’s annoying when those people are shocked to find that others don’t and assume it’s some political nonsense.  I’ll do my pad but I have no interest in doing so when not mandated.

Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Skatastrophy on December 02, 2021, 09:29:52 PM
Not to mention in normal times, doctors aren’t constantly masked.  They go in and out often.  And standing in a climate controlled lab or office in a mask is way different than a mask around and moving in normal life.

I would place a big money bet on this being not at all true.  People say the same thing about the “courteous” Asian culture and countries and wearing masks regularly and I’ve mentioned here before that it’s still quite rare to see it.  It’s not going to catch on here. Go anywhere masks are optional or even required in a general sense and you’ll get your idea of how many people will be masking for general health once this has passed.

As for your follow up, My wife and I have tried 10+ different kinds. And I have 1-2 I “prefer” but it still sucks.  I don’t enjoy breathing through them, it’s uncomfortable if it’s warm at all, indoors or out, and it just feels unnatural.  Walking through an airport or train station carrying bags, going up stairs, anything with travel absolutely BLOWS when you have a mask on your face.  And I’m not someone who gets winded easily.

I envy those who find it to be no big deal.  But it’s annoying when those people are shocked to find that others don’t and assume it’s some political nonsense.  I’ll do my pad but I have no interest in doing so when not mandated.

During non-pandemic times it really varies from country to country. Singapore & Thailand were low on masking. Vietnam was 80% masked. I wondered if it had to do with the availability and ability to pay for medical care driving their risk aversion? Or maybe there are just more novel viruses in Vietnam because of all the wet markets?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Lennys Tap on December 02, 2021, 09:34:55 PM

Personally, I've gotten to the point where wearing one doesn't bother me very much. If I didn't have to wear one in public places, great. But I do, and that's OK too.

Some people actually come to like the food in prison. Not many, mind you, but some.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on December 02, 2021, 09:45:17 PM
This is such a moronic argument I don't know where to start this time with you.  Doctors and nurses are professionals and signed up for heavy PPE use when they were in school in their 20s.

You're a retired writer who is in his 60s or 70s who doesn't have to be inconvenienced by this in the least except when you go to the store or for fun.

So miss me with your judgements and stop comparing average people to doctors and nurses.

He's a househusband.

Imagine if he ever saw what a welder has to wear.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: MU82 on December 02, 2021, 09:51:42 PM
This is such a moronic argument I don't know where to start this time with you.  Doctors and nurses are professionals and signed up for heavy PPE use when they were in school in their 20s.

You're a retired writer who is in his 60s or 70s who doesn't have to be inconvenienced by this in the least except when you go to the store or for fun.

So miss me with your judgements and stop comparing average people to doctors and nurses.

You sure told me!

But you're right. Believing that it's a terrible burden to have to wear a mask in public during a deadly pandemic that's still killing 1,000 Americans a day isn't extreme at all.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 02, 2021, 10:07:46 PM
You sure told me!

But you're right. Believing that it's a terrible burden to have to wear a mask in public during a deadly pandemic that's still killing 1,000 Americans a day isn't extreme at all.

Wear one at work for 10-12 hours a day, buckaroo.  Then tell me you want to do this forever. 
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 02, 2021, 10:09:05 PM
NYC, HI, CO, MN, CA, all confirm Omicron.  Many will be with community spread.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: JWags85 on December 02, 2021, 10:16:53 PM
You sure told me!

But you're right. Believing that it's a terrible burden to have to wear a mask in public during a deadly pandemic that's still killing 1,000 Americans a day isn't extreme at all.

So saying that you don’t like it and do not want to wear it on public transportation indefinitely means that you think it’s some terrible burden?

Or is that just another ridiculously hyperbolic argument?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: MU82 on December 02, 2021, 10:20:18 PM
So saying that you don’t like it and do not want to wear it on public transportation indefinitely means that you think it’s some terrible burden?

Or is that just another ridiculously hyperbolic argument?

Yes.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: BM1090 on December 02, 2021, 10:34:44 PM
If you've been on a flight longer than 2 hours since COVID and you still have this take, hoo boy.  Might get on well with my old neighbor who wore latex gloves to do her grocery shopping.

I’ve been a couple of 10 hour flights and honestly haven’t even noticed the mask.

But I don’t think mask mandates on flights should be permanent.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: forgetful on December 02, 2021, 11:33:13 PM
Pfizer pill targets the spikes.   CEO is confident it will be effective against omicron.   In general, Pfizer seems more optimistic than Moderna.

The Pfizer pill is an antiviral that targets the 3CL protease that is necessary for processing poly-proteins in SARS and SARS-COV2. There don't appear to be any mutations that would affect the pill's function, so it should be effective against omicron if it is indeed an effective treatment.

Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 03, 2021, 12:18:41 AM
Wear one at work for 10-12 hours a day, buckaroo.  Then tell me you want to do this forever.

But that's the thing.  I have to wear it at my workplace.  It's pointless, there's almost nobody there, and I know almost all of my coworkers are vaccinated.  That's dumb.

But in an airplane, bus, or train packed with randos?  Even regardless of covid, I'd prefer everyone be masked *most* of the time.  And I use planes and trains a lot. 
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 03, 2021, 06:16:51 AM
But that's the thing.  I have to wear it at my workplace.  It's pointless, there's almost nobody there, and I know almost all of my coworkers are vaccinated.  That's dumb.

But in an airplane, bus, or train packed with randos?  Even regardless of covid, I'd prefer everyone be masked *most* of the time.  And I use planes and trains a lot.

Then go ahead and do it.  I won't judge anyone for wearing a mask anywhere if that is what they want.  But forcing it forever on public transport is also stupid.  I've been triple vaccinated and I need to wear a mask for the rest of my life to protect people who can't be bothered or who are outright hostile towards getting vaccinated.  No sir, I don't think I'll be doing that forever.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 03, 2021, 06:19:23 AM
You sure told me!

But you're right. Believing that it's a terrible burden to have to wear a mask in public during a deadly pandemic that's still killing 1,000 Americans a day isn't extreme at all.




Folks dye inn der sleep. Sew, gotta assume ewe ar awake 24/7, hey?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 03, 2021, 07:40:56 AM
You sure told me!

But you're right. Believing that it's a terrible burden to have to wear a mask in public during a deadly pandemic that's still killing 1,000 Americans a day isn't extreme at all.


Again, a nonsense, illogical response.

People can understand the importance of masks, and will wear them willingly, but not like doing so.  These aren't mutually exclusive.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: MU82 on December 03, 2021, 08:00:57 AM
But in an airplane, bus, or train packed with randos?  Even regardless of covid, I'd prefer everyone be masked *most* of the time.  And I use planes and trains a lot.

Another situation I really like required masking: in restaurants. I like that servers aren't breathing/spreading droplets on my food as they deliver it.

People can understand the importance of masks, and will wear them willingly, but not like doing so.  These aren't mutually exclusive.

Of course this is true. That I seemed to suggest otherwise was poor communication on my part.

I don't like wearing a mask, either, but I try to keep it in perspective on the scale of annoyances. I recently flew from Seattle to Charlotte. Including time in the airports, that was 8+ hours straight of wearing a mask except to take some sips of water. I didn't love it, but I don't get the point of complaining because it isn't gonna change anything. I went to a Kraken game, wore my mask for nearly 4 hours. Again, not pleasant but that's life now.

Would I like for all of us to have to wear masks on flights for the rest of our lives? No, I hope we don't have to. Like rocky, it wouldn't crush me if I have to wear a mask on the el or subway for the rest of my life, though.

I appreciate that most folks here follow the rules, that we don't have a bunch of "freedom fighters" who say, "Eff the world." Like everybody else here, I want the pandemic to end, too.
Title: Re: New variant
Post by: forgetful on December 03, 2021, 06:04:46 PM
Eh, I'm not sure all of circumstances you're suggesting are necessarily true.  We have very little information so far, and the information we do have is from a very limited number of samples.  I've included another link that I think is worth a read.

https://www.wpr.org/mystery-where-omicron-came-and-why-it-matters

The origins of this are so intriguing. I was going over this variant with my students on Tuesday, and discussing the unusual aspects of its origin (so many mutations in a very specific region compared to original strains), and postulating on possible ways this emerged.

The most likely scenario is exactly what this article discusses, where it has incubated in an individual who mounted an immune response, but was incapable of clearing the virus. It then was allowed to evolve against a selective pressure (the immune system/neutralizing antibodies) until it attained sufficient mutations to evade the immune response to the original strain and become infectious enough to spread to others.

The scary aspect of this "origin story" is that it implies it has specifically evolved to evade the same immune pathways activated by either infection or vaccination.

That is why there was such a significant and immediate response to this variant to shut some things down.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pbiflyer on December 03, 2021, 07:32:17 PM
Thanks for this.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 04, 2021, 04:24:12 PM
This isn’t good right?

https://twitter.com/trvrb/status/1467245887357210624?s=21
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: GB Warrior on December 04, 2021, 05:13:05 PM
https://www.fox6now.com/news/covid-omicron-variant-confirmed-among-milwaukee-county-visitors (https://www.fox6now.com/news/covid-omicron-variant-confirmed-among-milwaukee-county-visitors)
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pbiflyer on December 04, 2021, 06:25:09 PM
This isn’t good right?

https://twitter.com/trvrb/status/1467245887357210624?s=21

My opinion:

It looks like he's taking 20 tweets to say that R_t for Omicron is probably about ~3 to 4 in SA, which is comparable to the observed R in the US at the start of the pandemic.

But R_t is not just a function of the virus, it's a property of the virus and its symptoms and characteristics mixed with the properties of the environment in which it exists. SA has low vaccination rates, high density, and a lot of poverty, all of which are going to correlate to higher R. The US as a whole has moderate vaccination rates, with vax rate being high in some areas and low in others, with mixed use of NPIs (usually more use correlating to higher vax rate areas).

I don't know that I'd extrapolate much from R values computed for SA, other than to say that the mitigations being used in places that have managed to get R below 1 should stay in use, and public health agencies should monitor transmission to see if rates are changing and consider increased NPIs if appropriate. But they're already doing that anyway.



J/k about it being my opinion. From a friend who studies this stuff.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 04, 2021, 07:07:12 PM
My opinion:

It looks like he's taking 20 tweets to say that R_t for Omicron is probably about ~3 to 4 in SA, which is comparable to the observed R in the US at the start of the pandemic.

But R_t is not just a function of the virus, it's a property of the virus and its symptoms and characteristics mixed with the properties of the environment in which it exists. SA has low vaccination rates, high density, and a lot of poverty, all of which are going to correlate to higher R. The US as a whole has moderate vaccination rates, with vax rate being high in some areas and low in others, with mixed use of NPIs (usually more use correlating to higher vax rate areas).

I don't know that I'd extrapolate much from R values computed for SA, other than to say that the mitigations being used in places that have managed to get R below 1 should stay in use, and public health agencies should monitor transmission to see if rates are changing and consider increased NPIs if appropriate. But they're already doing that anyway.



J/k about it being my opinion. From a friend who studies this stuff.


OK thank you.  Completely understandable.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: GB Warrior on December 04, 2021, 09:30:00 PM
My opinion:

It looks like he's taking 20 tweets to say that R_t for Omicron is probably about ~3 to 4 in SA, which is comparable to the observed R in the US at the start of the pandemic.

But R_t is not just a function of the virus, it's a property of the virus and its symptoms and characteristics mixed with the properties of the environment in which it exists. SA has low vaccination rates, high density, and a lot of poverty, all of which are going to correlate to higher R. The US as a whole has moderate vaccination rates, with vax rate being high in some areas and low in others, with mixed use of NPIs (usually more use correlating to higher vax rate areas).

I don't know that I'd extrapolate much from R values computed for SA, other than to say that the mitigations being used in places that have managed to get R below 1 should stay in use, and public health agencies should monitor transmission to see if rates are changing and consider increased NPIs if appropriate. But they're already doing that anyway.



J/k about it being my opinion. From a friend who studies this stuff.

Thank you
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: forgetful on December 05, 2021, 11:46:35 AM
My opinion:

It looks like he's taking 20 tweets to say that R_t for Omicron is probably about ~3 to 4 in SA, which is comparable to the observed R in the US at the start of the pandemic.

But R_t is not just a function of the virus, it's a property of the virus and its symptoms and characteristics mixed with the properties of the environment in which it exists. SA has low vaccination rates, high density, and a lot of poverty, all of which are going to correlate to higher R. The US as a whole has moderate vaccination rates, with vax rate being high in some areas and low in others, with mixed use of NPIs (usually more use correlating to higher vax rate areas).

I don't know that I'd extrapolate much from R values computed for SA, other than to say that the mitigations being used in places that have managed to get R below 1 should stay in use, and public health agencies should monitor transmission to see if rates are changing and consider increased NPIs if appropriate. But they're already doing that anyway.

J/k about it being my opinion. From a friend who studies this stuff.

While I understand the logic, I'm not sure how much that rationale in the 2nd paragraph makes sense. The R values for Delta were about the same in SA and the US, so it would imply they might be a good and comparable model. Also, Omicron is looking like it is 2x as likely to spread as Delta (not good news), that is a property of the variant, so would be retained regardless of whether it is located.

I agree though, that this does indicate that mitigation procedures need to remain in place.

The good news though, so far it does not appear that Omicron is more likely to cause severe disease, and maybe is results in milder cases. Still too early to really make any broad claims in that regard, but that could be a bright spot.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pbiflyer on December 05, 2021, 01:17:20 PM
I think he’s saying you can’t really draw much from that limited data. Using it to extrapolate worldwide isn’t valid. I don’t think he’s drawing conclusions other than that.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pbiflyer on December 06, 2021, 07:47:46 AM
Some potentially good news coming from South Africa.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Paq17X6ucQ
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 06, 2021, 07:56:02 AM
#1 on the best seller list....

"Real Anthony Fauci."
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on December 06, 2021, 08:01:37 AM
Pablum for morons
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: tower912 on December 06, 2021, 08:13:42 AM
#1 on the best seller list....

"Real Anthony Fauci."

What happened?   You bought a ton of them and are handing them out with the toothbrush, miniature tube of Crest, and dental floss?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Uncle Rico on December 06, 2021, 08:23:19 AM
What happened?   You bought a ton of them and are handing them out with the toothbrush, miniature tube of Crest, and dental floss?

RNC bought them
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: tower912 on December 06, 2021, 08:25:24 AM
As with so many things in life, the nature of the attacks on Fauci reveal far more about the characters and mindsets of the buffoons making them than they do about Fauci.   
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 06, 2021, 09:02:19 AM
As with so many things in life, the nature of the attacks on Fauci reveal far more about the characters and mindsets of the buffoons making them than they do about Fauci.   

Yep.  Of all the people to target for blame during the pandemic, I have no idea why he is enemy #1 for some people.  (Well, I do know why, but yeah...)
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pbiflyer on December 06, 2021, 09:21:54 AM
Yep.  Of all the people to target for blame during the pandemic, I have no idea why he is enemy #1 for some people.  (Well, I do know why, but yeah...)

It just makes sense.
(https://i.redd.it/99l147gflyp61.jpg)
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: JWags85 on December 06, 2021, 09:50:21 AM
Devils advocate...outside of the lunatics and aggressively partisan hacks, right or wrong, I think he's become the scapegoat/embodiment of the need to put a talking head out there to give updates on the virus daily, which leads to changing opinions/facts/statements as data and science developments change.

Also, as Ive said before, medical professionals by nature are extremely cautious and conservative when it comes to things like this.  Public policy/risk control/assessment are very different than a doctor/scientist whose goal is some form of COVID zero.  So their statements can come off really poorly to normal people.

But people who think Fauci is a boogeyman are dumb, but then so are the ones putting him on t shirts and deifying him.  But I guess at least they don't think he should be arrested.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 06, 2021, 10:14:39 AM
Devils advocate...outside of the lunatics and aggressively partisan hacks, right or wrong, I think he's become the scapegoat/embodiment of the need to put a talking head out there to give updates on the virus daily, which leads to changing opinions/facts/statements as data and science developments change.

Also, as Ive said before, medical professionals by nature are extremely cautious and conservative when it comes to things like this.  Public policy/risk control/assessment are very different than a doctor/scientist whose goal is some form of COVID zero.  So they're statements can come off really poorly to normal people.

But people who think Fauci is a boogeyman are dumb, but then so are the ones putting him on t shirts and deifying him.  But I guess at least they don't think he should be arrested.

This is a good take.  But I haven't seen a lot of Fauci deification recently, and most of that was just because Trump handled it all so poorly to begin with.

Anyway, I just read a summary of the book our fair dentist is promoting...and hoo boy...it checks all of the boxes.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 06, 2021, 10:18:44 AM
This is a good take.  But I haven't seen a lot of Fauci deification recently, and most of that was just because Trump handled it all so poorly to begin with.

Anyway, I just read a summary of the book our fair dentist is promoting...and hoo boy...it checks all of the boxes.

Don't worry, they're not reading it.  They're just showing their circle of psychos that they own it.  Have to maintain the appearance.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on December 06, 2021, 10:59:46 AM
“The person who writes for fools is always sure of a large audience.”

—Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860), German philosopher and author, “Religion: A Dialogue and Other Essays,” 1851.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: MU82 on December 06, 2021, 12:25:35 PM
But I guess at least they don't think he should be arrested.

Or hung.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: tower912 on December 06, 2021, 12:53:53 PM
“The person who writes for fools is always sure of a large audience.”

—Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860), German philosopher and author, “Religion: A Dialogue and Other Essays,” 1851.

I have never made but one prayer to God and it is a short one.  "O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous"   And he has granted it.   

Voltaire. 
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: GB Warrior on December 06, 2021, 01:38:07 PM
Devils advocate...outside of the lunatics and aggressively partisan hacks, right or wrong, I think he's become the scapegoat/embodiment of the need to put a talking head out there to give updates on the virus daily, which leads to changing opinions/facts/statements as data and science developments change.

Also, as Ive said before, medical professionals by nature are extremely cautious and conservative when it comes to things like this.  Public policy/risk control/assessment are very different than a doctor/scientist whose goal is some form of COVID zero.  So their statements can come off really poorly to normal people.

But people who think Fauci is a boogeyman are dumb, but then so are the ones putting him on t shirts and deifying him.  But I guess at least they don't think he should be arrested.

Yes. I think there is naturally some frustration with things that he (or others) have said from a position of authority that have proven to be wrong/inaccurate by (get this) the science as it evolves, but it's in part because he's been forced into this public-facing public policy role that really was not part of his original mandate prior to the Biden Administration. Public Health and Public Policy need to work hand-in-hand, and there is some translation of the former that needs to happen to make it accessible and meaningful to the lay person.

The Trump Administration had no policy, and Biden has stepped on the rake himself (the grand re-opening this summer was a huge miss and resulted in whiplash with Delta emerging not long after), and Fauci is the victim of having to explain all of this as if it was some strategic and thought-out endeavor.

Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 07, 2021, 07:59:37 AM
Yep.  Of all the people to target for blame during the pandemic, I have no idea why he is enemy #1 for some people.  (Well, I do know why, but yeah...)



Yeah butt, how due ewe 'splain awey dat da book wuz ritten bye won of yo own, Bobby Kennedy, hey?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Uncle Rico on December 07, 2021, 08:00:55 AM


Yeah butt, how due ewe 'splain awey dat da book wuz ritten bye won of yo own, Bobby Kennedy, hey?

You don’t.  He’s an idiot.  Next.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 07, 2021, 08:20:05 AM
Yeah butt, how due ewe 'splain awey dat da book wuz ritten bye won of yo own, Bobby Kennedy, hey?


I have no idea what you mean by "one of my own."  He's an anti-science idiot and has been one for a long time.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: MU82 on December 07, 2021, 08:47:52 AM


Yeah butt, how due ewe 'splain awey dat da book wuz ritten bye won of yo own, Bobby Kennedy, hey?

Eye 1der if Bobby joonyer iz also waytin' for cuz JFKay joonyer two joyn 2024 prez tikket lyke ewe ar, q?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: MU82 on December 16, 2021, 07:45:34 AM
How 'bout these for some eye-popping numbers:

At Cornell University, where cases of the omicron variant have been confirmed and many more are suspected, more than 1,100 students tested positive for the virus this week. The spike led school officials to switch final exams online, close libraries, and call off activities, including a ceremony for December graduates.

All kinds of universities and colleges are having to take drastic measures.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2021/12/15/colleges-omicron-cases-finals-online/?utm_campaign=wp_the7&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_the7&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F35890c9%2F61bb2c289d2fdab56bca355e%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F10%2F40%2F61bb2c289d2fdab56bca355e

How might this affect college sports next semester? We'll see.

Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: JWags85 on December 16, 2021, 08:28:54 AM
Cornell has a student vax rate of 97%.  Seems a bit of an overreaction
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 16, 2021, 08:32:04 AM
If they are testing positive, they have to isolate.  I don't know if they have much choice.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: tower912 on December 16, 2021, 08:35:06 AM
Omicron is far more infectious than delta.  And it has shown the ability to bypass natural immunity as well as waning vaccination immunity.   Boosters.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: forgetful on December 16, 2021, 09:44:47 AM
Cornell has a student vax rate of 97%.  Seems a bit of an overreaction

I discussed this early on, but the vaccines will likely prove very ineffective against Omicron.

If you have two doses and eligible for the booster (more than 6-months out), you probably don't have much if any resistance to infection, but remaining efficacy against severe infection (probably in the 30-40% range).

If you are boosted. Efficacy against infection of ~70%. Better against severe infection.

They may have 97% vaccination. But they were a mandate school, and most were vaxxed more than 6-months out and are not boosted. So go back to go...do not collect $200.

Not to mention that they are a global school. So once finals are over, Cornell students will be inoculation centers around the country. Bad.

They are doing the smart and right thing.

And students would prefer online finals. They can cheat easier.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: MU82 on December 16, 2021, 09:55:01 AM
Cornell has a student vax rate of 97%.  Seems a bit of an overreaction

Given the details forgetful provided, I'm curious what you would have done differently if you ran Cornell.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: JWags85 on December 16, 2021, 10:09:09 AM
I discussed this early on, but the vaccines will likely prove very ineffective against Omicron.

If you have two doses and eligible for the booster (more than 6-months out), you probably don't have much if any resistance to infection, but remaining efficacy against severe infection (probably in the 30-40% range).

If you are boosted. Efficacy against infection of ~70%. Better against severe infection.

They may have 97% vaccination. But they were a mandate school, and most were vaxxed more than 6-months out and are not boosted. So go back to go...do not collect $200.

Not to mention that they are a global school. So once finals are over, Cornell students will be inoculation centers around the country. Bad.

They are doing the smart and right thing.

And students would prefer online finals. They can cheat easier.

The article says only 2 of the cases were confirmed omicron, correct?

Everything coming out about omicron suggests its less severe.  None of the Cornell cases are severe.  Cornell is treating it, IMO, like they are back to square one and they are near lockdown.

I don't run a university, I'm not a medical professional, so I'm not baselined with an excess of caution.

It just speaks to my underlying wonder of when this breaks.  When we stop treating vaccinated (and boosted) individuals testing positive with the same caution and concern we do the unvaxxed months ago.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 16, 2021, 10:14:47 AM
Certainly not before the mid-terms and possibly not until Nov. 2024. Never let a good crisis go to waste. Fear and control, aina?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 16, 2021, 10:17:07 AM
Certainly not before the mid-terms and possibly not until Nov. 2024, aina?

You're the same dope that said this would all be over Nov 2020, aina?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on December 16, 2021, 10:21:28 AM
Certainly not before the mid-terms and possibly not until Nov. 2024. Never let a good cris in s go to waste. Fear and control, aina?
More like fear and stupidity
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 16, 2021, 10:28:32 AM
You're the same dope that said this would all be over Nov 2020, aina?




Like I said, the plan is working so well. Why waste a good opportunity, hey?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on December 16, 2021, 10:37:10 AM

And students would prefer online finals. They can cheat easier.

Funny you say this.  My kid finished finals Dec. 3.  Got her grades last week.  In regards to one of the science classes she said for all the in-person tests this semester she was above average for every test.  The final was online and she remarked that "she obviously didn't cheat because for the first time she was below average on a test in the class".
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: MUBurrow on December 16, 2021, 10:38:39 AM
Certainly not before the mid-terms and possibly not until Nov. 2024. Never let a good crisis go to waste. Fear and control, aina?

I don't think its some sort ham-fisted Machiavellian, Brave New World crap, but I do think that the Dems are pot-committed on not looking "soft on covid."  They have been the only adults in the room for most of this time, and want to reap benefits from that.  But that's going to require a house to fall on them before they support this:

It just speaks to my underlying wonder of when this breaks.  When we stop treating vaccinated (and boosted) individuals testing positive with the same caution and concern we do the unvaxxed months ago.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: tower912 on December 16, 2021, 10:51:48 AM
The preliminary data on Omicron intrigues me. 

IF this becomes the dominant variant...

IF it turns out to be consistently less dangerous, ......

IF it provides long lasting anti-bodies...

Until the next, nastier variant arrives.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 16, 2021, 10:55:14 AM



Like I said, the plan is working so well. Why waste a good opportunity, hey?

Just say what you mean.  Is the implication that covid is good for Biden?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Uncle Rico on December 16, 2021, 10:59:42 AM
Fear and control

What are we afraid of?

Big city crime
Scary immigrants
Vaccines
Fauci
Big Pharma
CRT
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 16, 2021, 11:08:37 AM
Just say what you mean.  Is the implication that covid is good for Biden?



The entire Party and its minions, hey?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 16, 2021, 11:15:52 AM
Fear and control

What are we afraid of?

Big city crime
Scary immigrants
Vaccines
Fauci
Big Pharma
CRT




Fear of the big, bad virus. I don't know how to navigate. All rational thinking, along with common sense, goes out the door. Just give me a cookbook recipe how to survive this pandemic and I will do as you command, hey?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 16, 2021, 11:23:51 AM


The entire Party and its minions, hey?

lol no shot.  It'd be great for them if they could get rid of it.

But they can't.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: tower912 on December 16, 2021, 11:27:45 AM
Yes, the worst pandemic in a century has revealed schisms.   Science vs quackery.   Me first vs communitarianism.   
Economic.  Health care delivery.  Education.   How social media is used.  Philosophically, our responsibility to each other.     Like a sudden influx of wealth, it has revealed character. 

Doc what you rail against as 'control' is viewed by many as science, logic, and common sense.

Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 16, 2021, 11:33:17 AM
The preliminary data on Omicron intrigues me. 

IF this becomes the dominant variant...

IF it turns out to be consistently less dangerous, ......

IF it provides long lasting anti-bodies...

Until the next, nastier variant arrives.


As I said when this started, isn't this what endemic Covid looks like?  A version of the virus that, although it spreads easier, by and large causes mild symptoms and less hospitalization and death?  Why would it mutate to a more virulent form from there?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: tower912 on December 16, 2021, 12:40:27 PM
That is the dream.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: JWags85 on December 16, 2021, 12:44:59 PM
That is the dream.

But yet you seem pretty inclined to the nightmare of this getting worse for the next 12-18 months?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: tower912 on December 16, 2021, 12:55:17 PM
Omicron is new.   I am always open to new data.     And it could all fall apart.  All it takes is one mutation that makes it more lethal.     BTW, I told you I thought this was a 5 year arc, and we are now in year 3.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Jockey on December 16, 2021, 01:42:04 PM

As I said when this started, isn't this what endemic Covid looks like?  A version of the virus that, although it spreads easier, by and large causes mild symptoms and less hospitalization and death?  Why would it mutate to a more virulent form from there?

The trend is definitely as you state.

But, we don't know what we don't know, though.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Skatastrophy on December 16, 2021, 05:31:10 PM

Fear of the big, bad virus. I don't know how to navigate. All rational thinking, along with common sense, goes out the door. Just give me a cookbook recipe how to survive this pandemic and I will do as you command, hey?


I think you're following the cookbook recipe to the letter.

Vaccinated & boosted. Wearing a mask when appropriate. Limiting your contact with others in Real Life by nature of spending most of your time on MUScoop. What else could we axe for?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: JWags85 on December 16, 2021, 06:05:56 PM
Omicron is new.   I am always open to new data.     And it could all fall apart.  All it takes is one mutation that makes it more lethal.     BTW, I told you I thought this was a 5 year arc, and we are now in year 3.

I recall.  And as then, assuming we just started year 3, given a Dec 2019 origin, I find it very hard to believe we have another 3 years of struggle.  Unless we are still counting cases and treating all with caution regardless of vax or boosted status, then who knows.  Or think COVID zero/near zero is a realistic aim.

But then again, you seem to be perfectly fine with any and all masking and other enduring mitigation measures and seem to think believing otherwise is selfish or silly.  So maybe you’re alright with the long grind towards total elimination regardless of time or toll.  Which is fine, to each their own I suppose. Agree to disagree
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: forgetful on December 16, 2021, 06:50:57 PM
The article says only 2 of the cases were confirmed omicron, correct?

Everything coming out about omicron suggests its less severe.  None of the Cornell cases are severe.  Cornell is treating it, IMO, like they are back to square one and they are near lockdown.

I don't run a university, I'm not a medical professional, so I'm not baselined with an excess of caution.

It just speaks to my underlying wonder of when this breaks.  When we stop treating vaccinated (and boosted) individuals testing positive with the same caution and concern we do the unvaxxed months ago.

My understanding, and the information I have says the majority (maybe almost all) of those cases are omicron. It is not 2 cases.

Regarding the severity of cases. We still really don't know on that front, the best data suggests that we may luck out and it will be less severe, but we haven't had enough cases in diverse population groups, and in non-vaccinated to really know everything on that front yet. So far, I'm optimistic it is less severe due to the way it seems to be infecting cells.

Also, Jwags, I'm confident that if you had the numbers in front of you, you would advise a University like Cornell to shut things down. It comes down to a simple cost/benefit analysis. The cost side is near zero, only final exams remain and that isn't something that needs to be in person. The benefit is mitigating spread on campus, and nationwide, and in the process saving lives and decreasing hospital burden. It is honestly a no-brainer.

The calculus on this might have been different if this was 2-months ago in the early part of the semester.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: forgetful on December 16, 2021, 06:58:07 PM

As I said when this started, isn't this what endemic Covid looks like?  A version of the virus that, although it spreads easier, by and large causes mild symptoms and less hospitalization and death?  Why would it mutate to a more virulent form from there?

That is one outcome, but it isn't the most logical. It could have evolved into a more infectious and highly deadly version and wiped out the human population. The fact is, mutations occur to make something more able to replicate and spread. That occurs in the first several days of the infection.

Hospitalizations/deaths usually occur after this initial massive infectious phase, so are not necessarily an evolutionary pressure on virus mutations.

The only way more deadly versions are selected against, is if it makes people so sick, so fast, that there isn't time to spread to others (loses evolutionary battle). So whether this evolves to a milder, or more deadly virus long term is unknown.

How this plays out long term is even more complex.

Omicron infections are unlikely to protect individuals from Delta. So if everyone gets Omicron, that population can be a target for spread and evolution of Delta...possibly a more dangerous version of it (or another strain).

There are a number of other highly likely scenarios that could go to either more deadly, or more mild in their own right.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pbiflyer on December 16, 2021, 10:12:19 PM



Like I said, the plan is working so well. Why waste a good opportunity, hey?
So the 500,000 deaths since then is an example of so much winning, plan working well? No wonder you post gibberish, hey?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pbiflyer on December 16, 2021, 10:14:51 PM
I recall.  And as then, assuming we just started year 3, given a Dec 2019 origin, I find it very hard to believe we have another 3 years of struggle.  Unless we are still counting cases and treating all with caution regardless of vax or boosted status, then who knows.  Or think COVID zero/near zero is a realistic aim.

But then again, you seem to be perfectly fine with any and all masking and other enduring mitigation measures and seem to think believing otherwise is selfish or silly.  So maybe you’re alright with the long grind towards total elimination regardless of time or toll.  Which is fine, to each their own I suppose. Agree to disagree
An infinitesimal small percentage of people wearing seat belts actually benefit from it. Stupid to constantly wear one, hey?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: statnik on December 16, 2021, 10:38:43 PM
That is one outcome, but it isn't the most logical. It could have evolved into a more infectious and highly deadly version and wiped out the human population. The fact is, mutations occur to make something more able to replicate and spread. That occurs in the first several days of the infection.

Hospitalizations/deaths usually occur after this initial massive infectious phase, so are not necessarily an evolutionary pressure on virus mutations.

The only way more deadly versions are selected against, is if it makes people so sick, so fast, that there isn't time to spread to others (loses evolutionary battle). So whether this evolves to a milder, or more deadly virus long term is unknown.

How this plays out long term is even more complex.

Omicron infections are unlikely to protect individuals from Delta. So if everyone gets Omicron, that population can be a target for spread and evolution of Delta...possibly a more dangerous version of it (or another strain).

There are a number of other highly likely scenarios that could go to either more deadly, or more mild in their own right.

This really reads like fear mongering.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: forgetful on December 16, 2021, 11:00:53 PM
This really reads like fear mongering.

Its not fear mongering, its just evolutionary selection.

There is a selective pressure on different variants to be able to infect more hosts effectively. With COVID that ability to spread to other hosts is in the first days of the virus, when it has yet to get severe.

Any mutations that enhance that ability to spread in the initial days will win out; post infectious spread severe illness is not being selected against, so it has no/little bearing on the initial selection.

Since post-spread severity is not being selected against, variants can become either more or less severe in outcome without bias. So there is no "likely" endemic form.

It is now also true that there appears to not be a lot of overlap in neutralizing antibodies for Delta and Omicron, which means they can target the same pool of hosts. What we can hope for is that infection with either (or smarter vaccination), confers protection against severe COVID...I think that will prove to be true.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: JWags85 on December 16, 2021, 11:15:36 PM
An infinitesimal small percentage of people wearing seat belts actually benefit from it. Stupid to constantly wear one, hey?

Not sure what you’re trying to say here. Im not anti-vax in any way and am 3 in.  If you’re implying wearing masks indefinitely when fully boosted is the same as wearing a seatbelt, then we’ll just have to agree to disagree
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 17, 2021, 03:48:33 AM
So the 500,000 deaths since then is an example of so much winning, plan working well? No wonder you post gibberish, hey?
[/quote



Neva let human lives get inda wey of big gubment's master plan. Ewe ar nothin' butt a pawn inda chess game, hey?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 17, 2021, 06:09:25 AM
This really reads like fear mongering.

To someone like yourself who has problems telling the difference between the things you read on your facebook feed and a person who works in healthcare.

But epidemiology 101 isn't for everyone.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: jesmu84 on December 17, 2021, 06:21:16 AM


Neva let human lives get inda wey of big gubment's master plan. Ewe ar nothin' butt a pawn inda chess game, hey?

"Medical professional"
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 17, 2021, 07:46:27 AM
The fact that 4ever couldn't even quote the post correctly is the cherry on top of the sundae.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Skatastrophy on December 17, 2021, 07:52:54 AM
The fact that 4ever couldn't even quote the post correctly is the cherry on top of the sundae.

Tech is hard for the elderly, we'll all be there eventually
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 18, 2021, 08:30:07 AM
heals up harry said both the delta and omicron caught them by surprise??  come on man!!  no joke?  and they had a plan to get rid of the chit for us?? 

  no wonder they told their pravda networks to get the death toll tracking numbers off the screen.  if they thought it looked bad for previous admin, it looks worse now...can't have any of that.  reminds me of stories about old russia tidying up the streets, filling the shelves, covering up the bruises...now smile and laugh for the cameras or else














Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 18, 2021, 08:47:31 AM
I've learned that when I have no idea what Roq is talking about, I can just go to fox news website and look at the top headlines.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 18, 2021, 08:54:07 AM
heals up harry said both the delta and omicron caught them by surprise??  come on man!!  no joke?  and they had a plan to get rid of the chit for us?? 

  no wonder they told their pravda networks to get the death toll tracking numbers off the screen.  if they thought it looked bad for previous admin, it looks worse now...can't have any of that.  reminds me of stories about old russia tidying up the streets, filling the shelves, covering up the bruises...now smile and laugh for the cameras or else





Yeah butt Dr. Rocket, da deaths ar up cuz President Trump's minions vont get poked. Evan doe, FD Joe and President Harris promised dey gonna protect us. And Fr. Fauci sez da chit's gonna hit da phan. Keep pushin' and cell moore vaccines. Feer and kontrol, aina?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: jesmu84 on December 18, 2021, 09:08:12 AM
heals up harry said both the delta and omicron caught them by surprise??  come on man!!  no joke?  and they had a plan to get rid of the chit for us?? 

  no wonder they told their pravda networks to get the death toll tracking numbers off the screen.  if they thought it looked bad for previous admin, it looks worse now...can't have any of that.  reminds me of stories about old russia tidying up the streets, filling the shelves, covering up the bruises...now smile and laugh for the cameras or else

What segment of the population is dying? Vaxxed or unvaxxed?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Uncle Rico on December 18, 2021, 09:11:50 AM
heals up harry said both the delta and omicron caught them by surprise??  come on man!!  no joke?  and they had a plan to get rid of the chit for us?? 

  no wonder they told their pravda networks to get the death toll tracking numbers off the screen.  if they thought it looked bad for previous admin, it looks worse now...can't have any of that.  reminds me of stories about old russia tidying up the streets, filling the shelves, covering up the bruises...now smile and laugh for the cameras or else

This is a solid effort.  I have to give it a 9 out of 10. 

“Heels up Harry” is awesome.  Pravda is awesome.  Good to see it.  Have forwarded this to the alumni association in hopes it is added to memorable alum quotes.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on December 18, 2021, 09:21:32 AM
Yeah butt Dr. Rocket, da deaths ar up cuz President Trump's minions vont get poked. Evan doe, FD Joe and President Harris promised dey gonna protect us. And Fr. Fauci sez da chit's gonna hit da phan. Keep pushin' and cell moore vaccines, aina?
The arsonists again complaining that the Fire Department isn't putting out fires fast enough.

But if the stupid unnatural carnal knowledgeers on the right insist on killing themselves in highly disproportionate numbers who am I to get in the way?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 18, 2021, 09:32:32 AM
Let's keep testin' asymptomatic, vaccinated folks. That'll fix it, hey?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on December 18, 2021, 09:44:06 AM
I encourage you to practice what you preach and avoid further vaccines. Ensure those in your political circle are also aware of the evils of the vaccine. Really stick it to Biden and Fauci.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: jesmu84 on December 18, 2021, 10:00:00 AM
Let's keep testin' asymptomatic, vaccinated folks. That'll fix it, hey?

What does that have to with deaths?

"Medical professional"
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: forgetful on December 18, 2021, 01:15:05 PM
Articles showing that hospitals are currently overrun with COVID highlights the threat from Omicron.

Right now, only 17% of American's have gotten the booster shot. That means 83% are vulnerable to Omicron, and most live in areas where prevention methods (masks, social distancing) are not absent.

Omicron is far more infectious than any other variant, which means it will spread like wildfire. Even if it is less severe, the increased hospital burden cannot be accommodated, there are already shortages, which means excess deaths.

That is why some schools shut down. That is why a lot of schools are now putting in vaccine booster mandates. It is their civic duty to minimize the hospital burden, and to save lives.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Warriors4ever on December 18, 2021, 01:43:26 PM
So now we’re back to, just stop testing, and that way our numbers will go down?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: jesmu84 on December 18, 2021, 03:25:37 PM
So now we’re back to, just stop testing, and that way our numbers will go down?

Sure. Case numbers will go down.

Deaths, however, won't be impacted. And likely will increase as a result of less testing
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 18, 2021, 04:03:52 PM
I've learned that when I have no idea what Roq is talking about, I can just go to fox news website and look at the top headlines.

 ohh wokie, it was on more than fox news...shocked!  something that dumb from the "leader" of the "free" world has got to open some eyes...even yahoo news.  yeah, don't expect it on "main stream media" cuz then the'd have to throw their joe & harry pom pons away

https://theworldnews.net/us-news/harris-says-biden-administration-didn-t-see-delta-or-omicron-coming

https://news.yahoo.com/kamala-harris-interview-says-administration-004723696.html

https://fox26newshenry.com/2021/12/18/kamala-harris-says-administration-did-not-anticipate-omicron/
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: forgetful on December 18, 2021, 04:08:33 PM
ohh wokie, it was on more than fox news...shocked!  something that dumb from the "leader" of the "free" world has got to open some eyes...even yahoo news.  yeah, don't expect it on "main stream media" cuz then the'd have to throw their joe & harry pom pons away

https://theworldnews.net/us-news/harris-says-biden-administration-didn-t-see-delta-or-omicron-coming

https://news.yahoo.com/kamala-harris-interview-says-administration-004723696.html

https://fox26newshenry.com/2021/12/18/kamala-harris-says-administration-did-not-anticipate-omicron/

Anyone saying they expected Omicron right now is a liar.

It is such an evolutionary jump in strains that it confounded many experts even after it was discovered.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 18, 2021, 04:12:04 PM
ohh wokie, it was on more than fox news...shocked!  something that dumb from the "leader" of the "free" world has got to open some eyes...even yahoo news.  yeah, don't expect it on "main stream media" cuz then the'd have to throw their joe & harry pom pons away

https://theworldnews.net/us-news/harris-says-biden-administration-didn-t-see-delta-or-omicron-coming

https://news.yahoo.com/kamala-harris-interview-says-administration-004723696.html

https://fox26newshenry.com/2021/12/18/kamala-harris-says-administration-did-not-anticipate-omicron/

You miss the point.  If you're leaving a comment about a news article you just saw, provide a link, otherwise we all just imagine you yelling at your television.  You post with no context, and it comes off as gibberish.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 18, 2021, 04:14:58 PM
You miss the point.  If you're leaving a comment about a news article you just saw, provide a link, otherwise we all just imagine you yelling at your television.  You post with no context, and it comes off as gibberish.

I mean most of the time it’s gibberish even with a link.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Uncle Rico on December 18, 2021, 04:17:32 PM
ohh wokie, it was on more than fox news...shocked!  something that dumb from the "leader" of the "free" world has got to open some eyes...even yahoo news.  yeah, don't expect it on "main stream media" cuz then the'd have to throw their joe & harry pom pons away

https://theworldnews.net/us-news/harris-says-biden-administration-didn-t-see-delta-or-omicron-coming

https://news.yahoo.com/kamala-harris-interview-says-administration-004723696.html

https://fox26newshenry.com/2021/12/18/kamala-harris-says-administration-did-not-anticipate-omicron/

8 of 10

“Wokie” is really top notch stuff.  It’s not the put down you think it is, which makes it even better.

Great use of ellipses and air quotes.  Attacked the media and the President and VP. 

Rounding back into form for the holiday!
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: warriorchick on December 18, 2021, 04:46:09 PM
Articles showing that hospitals are currently overrun with COVID highlights the threat from Omicron.

Right now, only 17% of American's have gotten the booster shot. That means 83% are vulnerable to Omicron, and most live in areas where prevention methods (masks, social distancing) are not absent.

Omicron is far more infectious than any other variant, which means it will spread like wildfire. Even if it is less severe, the increased hospital burden cannot be accommodated, there are already shortages, which means excess deaths.

That is why some schools shut down. That is why a lot of schools are now putting in vaccine booster mandates. It is their civic duty to minimize the hospital burden, and to save lives.

What's the hospitalization rate for Omicron? Honest question.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 18, 2021, 04:52:43 PM
What's the hospitalization rate for Omicron? Honest question.

In South Africa it’s a lot less. But if the amount of transmissibility holds, the rate would be lower but numbers would be higher. We will see.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: #UnleashSean on December 18, 2021, 04:58:07 PM
What's the hospitalization rate for Omicron? Honest question.

I've heard of one death in the uk. But that was several days ago.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: forgetful on December 18, 2021, 05:17:06 PM
What's the hospitalization rate for Omicron? Honest question.

In all honesty, too early to have reliable numbers. And so far most infections have been in the young.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: warriorchick on December 18, 2021, 05:22:59 PM
In all honesty, too early to have reliable numbers. And so far most infections have been in the young.

If that is the case, I am not sure that you can presume that the new variant is going to significantly increase the hospital burden.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Skatastrophy on December 18, 2021, 06:17:55 PM
If that is the case, I am not sure that you can presume that the new variant is going to significantly increase the hospital burden.

Here's hoping, but that's not where the early data is pointing

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/omicron-five-times-more-likely-reinfect-than-delta-study-says-2021-12-17/

"We find no evidence (for both risk of hospitalisation attendance and symptom status) of Omicron having different severity from Delta," the study said, although it added that data on hospitalisations remains very limited.

"Controlling for vaccine status, age, sex, ethnicity, asymptomatic status, region and specimen date, Omicron was associated with a 5.4-fold higher risk of reinfection compared with Delta," the study, which was dated Dec. 16, added.

BUT

"The conclusions made are based on making assumptions about Omicron where we still don't have sufficient data," Dr Dix said. "For example, we have no data on the cellular immune response which is now probably driving effectiveness of vaccines."

"This is a crucial missing assumption in the modelling."
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: warriorchick on December 18, 2021, 06:40:29 PM

"The conclusions made are based on making assumptions about Omicron where we still don't have sufficient data," Dr Dix said. "For example, we have no data on the cellular immune response which is now probably driving effectiveness of vaccines."

"This is a crucial missing assumption in the modelling."

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BountifulColorlessDutchsmoushond-max-1mb.gif)
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 18, 2021, 06:52:39 PM
i realize this is very early and the amount of time needed to study our vaccines efficacy on the omicron variant are limited, but early indications, if i am reading this right, don't bode well.  if forget could peruse this short abstract and give us his thoughts-

https://clinicalnews.org/2021/12/14/effectiveness-of-covid-19-vaccines-against-the-omicron-b-1-1-529-variant-of-concern/
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: warriorchick on December 18, 2021, 07:05:21 PM
i realize this is very early and the amount of time needed to study our vaccines efficacy on the omicron variant are limited, but early indications, if i am reading this right, don't bode well.  if forget could peruse this short abstract and give us his thoughts-

https://clinicalnews.org/2021/12/14/effectiveness-of-covid-19-vaccines-against-the-omicron-b-1-1-529-variant-of-concern/

Isn't it a moot point if you don't believe in the vaccine in the first place?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 18, 2021, 07:10:51 PM
Isn't it a moot point if you don't believe in the vaccine in the first place?

who said i don't believe in the vaccine??  i got both doses moderna last january-february.  knock on wood, except for a pretty severe rxn of the man gland, i remain unscathed so far.  lots of zinc, vitamin c & d, multivitamin, exercise, and quercetin w/bromelain

  and this after being in probably well over a thousand faces since may 2020
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Mutaman on December 18, 2021, 09:35:34 PM
   yeah, don't expect it on "main stream media" cuz then the'd have to throw their joe & harry pom pons away

Is the LA Times ""main stream media"? Who do you think the VP's interview was with?

CNN?

The Guardian?

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2021-12-17/kamala-harris-in-interview-says-administration-did-not-anticipate-omicron-variant

https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/18/politics/kamala-harris-biden-administraton-delta-omicron-variant/index.html

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/18/kamala-harris-la-times-interview-covid-variants-vaccines

Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: forgetful on December 18, 2021, 09:53:23 PM
If that is the case, I am not sure that you can presume that the new variant is going to significantly increase the hospital burden.

My statement is mainly because it exposes a 2nd group to infections. Delta can continue to spread to those who have not been infected yet, or who have not received a booster.

That is driving the present hospitalization rate.

Omicron can infect those who have already been vaccinated, and those who have already been infected. Any hospitalizations from this group then increases the burden.

That was the logic behind my statement. I now realize (my apologies), that my statement may be premature. An alternative is Omicron ravages both groups, and if significantly less severe, could result in fewer net hospitalizations if it displaces a more severe Delta.

Either way, mitigation measures should be taken.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: forgetful on December 18, 2021, 09:56:08 PM
i realize this is very early and the amount of time needed to study our vaccines efficacy on the omicron variant are limited, but early indications, if i am reading this right, don't bode well.  if forget could peruse this short abstract and give us his thoughts-

https://clinicalnews.org/2021/12/14/effectiveness-of-covid-19-vaccines-against-the-omicron-b-1-1-529-variant-of-concern/

This article is consistent with everything I have seen so far regarding Omicron. No booster, little to no protection, with a booster, you gain protection but more similar to vaccine efficacy against Delta (without a booster).
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 19, 2021, 05:40:56 AM
sounds like the omicron variant is similar to other serious, but manageable illnesses such as pneumonia, influenza, etc in which the very young, old and those with compromised immune systems are most at threat.  otherwise, the omicron variant could be the "topping on the cake" providing us with the herd immunity we need to really put this thing into a category or the aforementioned
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 19, 2021, 07:37:16 AM
That would be the hope.  We will see.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Skatastrophy on December 19, 2021, 09:15:52 AM
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BountifulColorlessDutchsmoushond-max-1mb.gif)

It's hard for me to imagine dismissing the best, most recent, medical study we have on Omicron. You do you I suppose.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 20, 2021, 09:01:40 AM
ohh wokie, it was on more than fox news...shocked!  something that dumb from the "leader" of the "free" world has got to open some eyes...even yahoo news.  yeah, don't expect it on "main stream media" cuz then the'd have to throw their joe & harry pom pons away

https://theworldnews.net/us-news/harris-says-biden-administration-didn-t-see-delta-or-omicron-coming

https://news.yahoo.com/kamala-harris-interview-says-administration-004723696.html

https://fox26newshenry.com/2021/12/18/kamala-harris-says-administration-did-not-anticipate-omicron/

Okay, so you don't understand how media works at all.  And you've confirmed it.  The "yahoo news" article is just a reposting of a LA times article.  It says so when you click the link. 

who said i don't believe in the vaccine??  i got both doses moderna last january-february.  knock on wood, except for a pretty severe rxn of the man gland, i remain unscathed so far.  lots of zinc, vitamin c & d, multivitamin, exercise, and quercetin w/bromelain

  and this after being in probably well over a thousand faces since may 2020
  Why no ivermectin and HQC? 
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 20, 2021, 09:10:55 AM
  Why no ivermectin and HQC?

I'm just glad someone quoted his "severe rxn of the man gland" comment.  I don't think that's a covid/vaccine problem.  Perhaps he should ask his assistants if they've been around too much, if you know what I mean.

Also, no booster rocket?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Warrior2008 on December 20, 2021, 09:36:43 AM
I'm just glad someone quoted his "severe rxn of the man gland" comment.  I don't think that's a covid/vaccine problem.  Perhaps he should ask his assistants if they've been around too much, if you know what I mean.

Also, no booster rocket?

For all we know, Rocket could be Nicki Manaj's cousin.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Uncle Rico on December 20, 2021, 10:39:00 AM
For all we know, Rocket could be Nicki Manaj's cousin.

He’d be beside himself if that were true
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: jficke13 on December 20, 2021, 11:01:16 AM
For all we know, Rocket could be Nicki Manaj's cousin.

Nicki Manaj's cousin's friend, right?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: jesmu84 on December 20, 2021, 11:04:14 AM
He’d be beside himself if that were true

Lolz
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Skatastrophy on December 20, 2021, 06:06:52 PM
I'm just here for the "rocket's thicc" storyline
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on December 20, 2021, 07:46:17 PM
I'm just here for the "rocket's thicc" storyline

Pony up for his only fans, cheapskate.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: tower912 on December 21, 2021, 07:34:22 AM
73% of new infections are omicron, not delta.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: MU82 on December 21, 2021, 07:55:32 AM
Fox Corporation, the owner of Fox News, told employees on Friday that those working in New York City would have to show proof they’d had at least one dose of the Covid vaccine by Dec. 27, removing the option to get tested weekly instead.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/20/business/fox-vaccine-mandate.html

Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Uncle Rico on December 21, 2021, 09:17:47 AM
Fox Corporation, the owner of Fox News, told employees on Friday that those working in New York City would have to show proof they’d had at least one dose of the Covid vaccine by Dec. 27, removing the option to get tested weekly instead.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/20/business/fox-vaccine-mandate.html

I assume Tucker will be quitting
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Mr. Nielsen on December 21, 2021, 09:22:50 AM
I assume Tucker will be quitting
Tucker doesn't work out of NYC.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Uncle Rico on December 21, 2021, 09:23:54 AM
Tucker doesn't work out of NYC.

He’s a principled man
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: MU82 on December 22, 2021, 08:18:18 AM
Good news: South Africa already seems to have passed its peak with the new variant, as infections have dropped dramatically.

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-africa-johannesburg-south-africa-f4b59ecde3029295f7b96f2d0ff44042?user_email=&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=MorningWire_Dec22&utm_term=Morning%20Wire%20Subscribers
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Goose on December 22, 2021, 10:51:47 AM
82

That is good news on South Africa, unfortunately we have 4-5 regions in the USA that will be passing this around. Since Covid started we have not had a national outbreak, but rather regional outbreaks. It would be great if we could burn through this in a month, but I do not think that is realistic.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: tower912 on December 22, 2021, 10:58:20 AM
It is so contagious that it is likely that anyone who is not vaccinated will probably have been exposed to it by St. Patrick's day.   
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Skatastrophy on December 22, 2021, 11:58:52 AM
It is so contagious that it is likely that anyone who is not vaccinated will probably have been exposed to it by St. Patrick's day.   

Too bad % chance of reinfection is so high (from what I have read from pre-print studies, that I'm probably not qualified to comment on)
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Warriors4ever on December 22, 2021, 12:15:01 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-59758784

Fingers crossed
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Warriors4ever on December 22, 2021, 06:04:14 PM
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-study-urges-rethink-of-covids-nature-indicates-antioxidants-may-help/?fbclid=IwAR3RBt2-AUL0YlHl0odLVMYzLHGj1Cp3t2ZqoOutAhkPj0_1fNAMwmC9eB0

Not specific to Omicron, but intriguing.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Lennys Tap on December 22, 2021, 09:27:39 PM
It is so contagious that it is likely that anyone who is not vaccinated will probably have been exposed to it by St. Patrick's day.

What does being vaccinated have to do with whether or not one is exposed? Everyone will be exposed by then, right? Don’t know if it’s correct, but what I read was two shots give 30% protection, boosters 60-70%.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: #UnleashSean on December 29, 2021, 11:36:18 AM
Cdc just reduced their estimation of omicron from 77% to 59%. New theories that delta is the main leader of hospitization.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Skatastrophy on December 29, 2021, 02:05:12 PM
Cdc just reduced their estimation of omicron from 77% to 59%. New theories that delta is the main leader of hospitization.

The US has been pretty far behind in virus sequencing this entire pandemic.

A while back on scoop we talked about virus identification and sequencing at the waste-water treatment level so that you could identify the health of the population, and I wish that was a reality.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: lawdog77 on December 29, 2021, 02:46:21 PM
What does being vaccinated have to do with whether or not one is exposed? Everyone will be exposed by then, right? Don’t know if it’s correct, but what I read was two shots give 30% protection, boosters 60-70%.
Looks like the booster may not prevent symptoms for very long.

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20211227/covid-booster-protection-wanes-new-data (https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20211227/covid-booster-protection-wanes-new-data)

Still no reason not to get it though
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 30, 2021, 09:16:49 AM
Personally, I know many more people testing positive now than any other time in the pandemic.  Congregate sites being closed again for outbreaks and exposures.

'22 is going to be off to a miserable start.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: forgetful on December 30, 2021, 09:43:31 AM
Looks like the booster may not prevent symptoms for very long.

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20211227/covid-booster-protection-wanes-new-data (https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20211227/covid-booster-protection-wanes-new-data)

Still no reason not to get it though

This is not surprising. The Omicron S1 domain that is used for vaccines and recognized by neutralizing antibodies is just too different to provide robust and lasting protection against symptomatic illness.

Illnesses will likely be more mild, but will be symptomatic.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 30, 2021, 02:22:50 PM
This is crazy.  MA has been consistently tracking COVID in their wastewater the entire pandemic.  It is off the charts higher than at any point in the last two years. 

https://www.mwra.com/biobot/MWRAData20211229-graphs.pdf (https://www.mwra.com/biobot/MWRAData20211229-graphs.pdf)
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: jesmu84 on December 30, 2021, 03:10:47 PM
Sure glad the CDC caved to big business interests on time off
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Jockey on December 30, 2021, 04:32:47 PM
Sure glad the CDC caved to big business interests on time off

You may be correct, but real life is funny. Just look at the post before yours. There are infected people out and about, and going to work and school every day. Many don't even know they are infected. We just know the numbers are astronomical.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 30, 2021, 06:31:29 PM
I’ll put this in the not great news column.  We’re in for a swift hit with this…I hope the next few weeks don’t break the hospital or staff with the volume of visits and the amount of staff that will be out for a period of time. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/30/world/europe/uk-covid-omicron-london-england.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/30/world/europe/uk-covid-omicron-london-england.html)
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on December 30, 2021, 08:01:15 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/TPostMillennial/status/1476710278096166917

I remember the good ol days when saying something like this would get you suspended from Twitter and called a quack.  Biden admitting this week that covid is now a state issue and very little the federal gov’t can do to stop this next wave.  CDC cutting quarantine times in half this week cause, science???

Everyone is starting to come around slowly but surely.

Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on December 30, 2021, 08:02:44 PM
Wasn’t too long ago some knuckleheads on here were pointing to NYC as the reason to support mask mandates and vaccine passports cause look how different the infection rates where in NYC compared to rest of the state of NY.  How’s that going?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on December 30, 2021, 08:17:13 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/Hold2LLC/status/1476588087778107392

Boy, anyone who argued there was a seasonality component to Covid.  Those folks might be onto something.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 30, 2021, 09:27:49 PM
Wasn’t too long ago some knuckleheads on here were pointing to NYC as the reason to support mask mandates and vaccine passports cause look how different the infection rates where in NYC compared to rest of the state of NY.  How’s that going?

  the omicron variant has killed between 10-20...WORLWIDE.  it infects the upper respiratory as opposed to deep lung tissue the original bug and the delta variant.  omicron is about as close as you can get to an attenuated viral particle used to make vaccines as you can get.  thus, it is essentially a natural herd immunity producer.  the covid virus is struggling to remain relevant and it is doing that by becoming weaker, but more infective. 

all the continued hysteria is overblown.  many do not want this to end for way too many reasons.  pfizer, moderna and J & J should be the fat ladys warming up, but they need to milk every last dollar out of us as they can.   
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: reinko on December 30, 2021, 09:49:40 PM
  the omicron variant has killed between 10-20...WORLWIDE.  it infects the upper respiratory as opposed to deep lung tissue the original bug and the delta variant.  omicron is about as close as you can get to an attenuated viral particle used to make vaccines as you can get.  thus, it is essentially a natural herd immunity producer.  the covid virus is struggling to remain relevant and it is doing that by becoming weaker, but more infective. 

all the continued hysteria is overblown.  many do not want this to end for way too many reasons.  pfizer, moderna and J & J should be the fat ladys warming up, but they need to milk every last dollar out of us as they can.

Just gonna quote because methinks omicron may not be so “mild” once it hits the swaths of folks and parts of the country who thinks Bill Gates is implanting microchips into them via vaccine.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Skatastrophy on December 30, 2021, 10:02:19 PM
Wasn’t too long ago some knuckleheads on here were pointing to NYC as the reason to support mask mandates and vaccine passports cause look how different the infection rates where in NYC compared to rest of the state of NY.  How’s that going?

You're against masks and vaccines now?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on December 30, 2021, 10:17:01 PM
You're against masks and vaccines now?

Against mandating of both. 
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pbiflyer on December 30, 2021, 10:56:33 PM
We should probably close this sub board then, eh? It’s over……just like this past summer.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pbiflyer on December 30, 2021, 10:58:09 PM
  the omicron variant has killed between 10-20...WORLWIDE.  it infects the upper respiratory as opposed to deep lung tissue the original bug and the delta variant.  omicron is about as close as you can get to an attenuated viral particle used to make vaccines as you can get.  thus, it is essentially a natural herd immunity producer.  the covid virus is struggling to remain relevant and it is doing that by becoming weaker, but more infective. 

all the continued hysteria is overblown.  many do not want this to end for way too many reasons.  pfizer, moderna and J & J should be the fat ladys warming up, but they need to milk every last dollar out of us as they can.

So the thousands dying of Covid each day are imaginary? Overblown? Or maybe Covid really is still killing people.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on December 30, 2021, 11:55:01 PM
So the thousands dying of Covid each day are imaginary? Overblown? Or maybe Covid really is still killing people.


Or they have delta.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 31, 2021, 07:01:41 AM
It really is too early to tell how deadly omicron is.  Deaths usually peak about four to six weeks after a spike, and even in South Africa four weeks haven't passed.  Signs are very encouraging though.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 31, 2021, 07:03:10 AM
This is crazy.  MA has been consistently tracking COVID in their wastewater the entire pandemic.  It is off the charts higher than at any point in the last two years. 

https://www.mwra.com/biobot/MWRAData20211229-graphs.pdf (https://www.mwra.com/biobot/MWRAData20211229-graphs.pdf)


So a bunch of people are carrying this around without realizing it.  Or even if they have mild symptoms, are writing it off as a cold.  If we can get through this without significant hospitalizations and deaths, that might not be a bad thing.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on December 31, 2021, 07:23:31 AM

So a bunch of people are carrying this around without realizing it.  Or even if they have mild symptoms, are writing it off as a cold.  If we can get through this without significant hospitalizations and deaths, that might not be a bad thing.

hahahahahahaha!!!!!  Natural immunity for the win....the talking points are shifting folks.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on December 31, 2021, 07:28:53 AM
"We haven't quite had an illness this infectious and this possible to cause serious illness," explained Hayes, adding that this "does look more like the flu. Flu, of course, can still be dangerous, kills tens of thousands of Americans every year, but we don't orient our lives around the flu. That's closer to the level of risk that 200 million Americans, or less than that, are now dealing with.

The Hayes mentioned above is of course MSNBC "STAR" Chris Hayes comparing Covid to the flu.  Hell has frozen over.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 31, 2021, 07:33:26 AM
hahahahahahaha!!!!!  Natural immunity for the win....the talking points are shifting folks.


Uh no.  We have wanted to get to the point of Covid being an endemic from the beginning.  A milder but widespread version is exactly what an endemic looks like.  No shifting at all.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on December 31, 2021, 07:39:50 AM

Uh no.  We have wanted to get to the point of Covid being an endemic from the beginning.  A milder but widespread version is exactly what an endemic looks like.  No shifting at all.

We have all wanted that Fluffy.  It’s just now though that you’re strangely ok with record case counts and in some areas of the county record hospitalizations. 
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on December 31, 2021, 07:52:40 AM

Uh no.  We have wanted to get to the point of Covid being an endemic from the beginning.  A milder but widespread version is exactly what an endemic looks like.  No shifting at all.

Widespread version?  CDC said this week the current record case counts are made up of only about 25% Omicron.  Per the experts, it is still largely Delta spreading like wildfire.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on December 31, 2021, 07:54:17 AM
We have all wanted that Fluffy.  It’s just now though that you’re strangely ok with record case counts and in some areas of the county record hospitalizations. 


How am I strangely OK with it?  This is what I said:  "If we can get through this without significant hospitalizations and deaths, that might not be a bad thing."

Note the use of "if" and "might."

Might do you well to actually learn English.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: forgetful on December 31, 2021, 09:43:47 AM
Widespread version?  CDC said this week the current record case counts are made up of only about 25% Omicron.  Per the experts, it is still largely Delta spreading like wildfire.

Depends where you look. In many areas, Omicron is now making up 90+% of cases.

And the danger is, like vaccines and previous infection do not help much against Omicron. An Omicron infection is unlikely to provide much protection against strains like Delta.

Let's hope it at least puts a dent in the degree of severity of subsequent infections, so maybe the idiots who refuse to get vaccinated, and would rather see people die and the economy languish, can finally quit holding the rest of us hostage.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: MUBurrow on December 31, 2021, 09:47:08 AM
An Omicron infection is unlikely to provide much protection against strains like Delta.


Bummer.  I knew that scientists didn't think previous alpha or delta infections would be a huge protection against infection from omicron due to the additional spike proteins, but I hadn't seen much on the reverse.  :-\
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Hards Alumni on December 31, 2021, 10:33:43 AM


Or they have delta.

Actually correct.  As we know, deaths lag case numbers by days/weeks.  Omicron was only detected this month.  It hasn't had time to wind up, spread, and truly take over until the last week or so when the cases exploded.  The people who are dying of Omicron now are just starting, and HOPEFULLY it won't be as many and Omicron can overtake Delta.

I honestly agree with some of the underboarders here.  I feel awful for our healthcare workers, and I still want everyone to get vaccinated, but if this blows through the US the way it has blown through South Africa we may get some sort of normalcy sooner rather than later.

This isn't me 'coming around' to your 'side' either before you try to say that, you psychos.   ;)  I don't have a side.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on December 31, 2021, 11:24:09 AM
Depends where you look. In many areas, Omicron is now making up 90+% of cases.

And the danger is, like vaccines and previous infection do not help much against Omicron. An Omicron infection is unlikely to provide much protection against strains like Delta.

Let's hope it at least puts a dent in the degree of severity of subsequent infections, so maybe the idiots who refuse to get vaccinated, and would rather see people die and the economy languish, can finally quit holding the rest of us hostage.

💯!!

What are your thoughts on Fauci saying we’re seeing a lot of kids hospitalized with Covid not from Covid.  Obviously that is also the case with adults as well, Infirnkne was surprised to hear him echo the conspiracy theorists out there.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: jesmu84 on December 31, 2021, 11:53:50 AM
💯!!

What are your thoughts on Fauci saying we’re seeing a lot of kids hospitalized with Covid not from Covid.  Obviously that is also the case with adults as well, Infirnkne was surprised to hear him echo the conspiracy theorists out there.

What are your thoughts on folks saying we're severely undercounting deaths from covid?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on December 31, 2021, 12:51:51 PM
What are your thoughts on folks saying we're severely undercounting deaths from covid?

From or with?  I think they’re wrong if they believe “from” is undercounted but undoubtedly right on undercounted “with” especially in 2020.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: jesmu84 on December 31, 2021, 01:05:51 PM
From or with?  I think they’re wrong if they believe “from” is undercounted but undoubtedly right on undercounted “with” especially in 2020.

Lulz
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Billy Hoyle on January 01, 2022, 09:28:39 PM
Quebec has implemented and using police to enforce a 10 pm to 5 am curfew. Apparently Omnicron does not spread at night. Baby steps…
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: cheebs09 on January 01, 2022, 11:50:32 PM
Quebec has implemented and using police to enforce a 10 pm to 5 am curfew. Apparently Omnicron does not spread at night. Baby steps…

Heaven forbid a place take steps to stem the spread of Covid at a peak. It won’t stop every spread of Covid in Montreal, but tried to remove a scenario where people are in indoor spaces, tightly packed, and inhibitions lowered.

It is crazy to me people think if a policy is enacted that doesn’t stop every Covid case, it is useless.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Billy Hoyle on January 02, 2022, 01:09:28 PM
Heaven forbid a place take steps to stem the spread of Covid at a peak. It won’t stop every spread of Covid in Montreal, but tried to remove a scenario where people are in indoor spaces, tightly packed, and inhibitions lowered.

It is crazy to me people think if a policy is enacted that doesn’t stop every Covid case, it is useless.

How does ticketing and even arresting people walking their dogs at 11 pm stop COVID but it’s ok to walk the dog at 9:45 pm? COVID only spreads after 10 pm in Quebec, I guess.

Maybe it’s the same strain that only spread when one exercised outside for more than an hour a day and went running more than 3 miles from your home in Victoria, AU.  55 minutes and 2.5 miles, no spread. At least we have a virus that is pretty disciplined.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: cheebs09 on January 02, 2022, 01:39:43 PM
Looks like they are adjusting to allow for an exception to dog owners. Also, no one has been issued a ticket for walking their dog. So you can rest easy.

https://apple.news/Ajz89WNHuR9-sXPB0Z8N53g

If this is their best way to limit people gathering in large groups and indoors, then I’m glad they are trying something. Will this stop all spread? Of course not. But if it can help mitigate the number of cases to give the hospitals some slack, then I think it’s worth a shot.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: JWags85 on January 02, 2022, 01:50:06 PM
Looks like they are adjusting to allow for an exception to dog owners. Also, no one has been issued a ticket for walking their dog. So you can rest easy.

https://apple.news/Ajz89WNHuR9-sXPB0Z8N53g

If this is their best way to limit people gathering in large groups and indoors, then I’m glad they are trying something. Will this stop all spread? Of course not. But if it can help mitigate the number of cases to give the hospitals some slack, then I think it’s worth a shot.

Then just cap bars and restaurants with certain hours.  When I was in Belgium when Omicron hit, bars and restaurants had a hard close at 11. Not the most fun, but reasonable and justified.  Blanket curfews just seem excessively draconian and “look at how staunch we are!” security theater.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: MuggsyB on January 02, 2022, 02:31:50 PM
The Mayo Clinic is now requiring all patients and visitors to wear N95's because of Omicron.  This is why I was saying cloth masks at Fiserv are minimal protection if any.  But as more data is accumulated it seems as though Omicron is far less serious than Delta despite being much more contagious.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 02, 2022, 02:56:35 PM
The Mayo Clinic is now requiring all patients and visitors to wear N95's because of Omicron.  This is why I was saying cloth masks at Fiserv are minimal protection if any.  But as more data is accumulated it seems as though Omicron is far less serious than Delta despite being much more contagious.

Again because if you can’t do everything possible, you may as well do nothing.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 02, 2022, 03:13:23 PM
Again because if you can’t do everything possible, you may as well do nothing.

I was at the game yesterday.  80% of the folks I saw where wearing cloth masks.  Which does absolutely nothing for you or the people around you so it’s ink thing more then theater.  Scotty G was on the morning shows today saying a cloth mask does nothing since Covid is airborne. 

I remember saying that awhile back and then getting “dunked” on by a handful of know it all scoopers who talk a lot but more often then not have no idea what they’re talking about.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Uncle Rico on January 02, 2022, 03:21:08 PM
I was at the game yesterday.  80% of the folks I saw where wearing cloth masks.  Which does absolutely nothing for you or the people around you so it’s ink thing more then theater.  Scotty G was on the morning shows today saying a cloth mask does nothing since Covid is airborne. 

I remember saying that awhile back and then getting “dunked” on by a handful of know it all scoopers who talk a lot but more often then not have no idea what they’re talking about.

Unlike you
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 02, 2022, 03:21:11 PM
I was at the game yesterday.  80% of the folks I saw where wearing cloth masks.  Which does absolutely nothing for you or the people around you so it’s ink thing more then theater.  Scotty G was on the morning shows today saying a cloth mask does nothing since Covid is airborne. 

I remember saying that awhile back and then getting “dunked” on by a handful of know it all scoopers who talk a lot but more often then not have no idea what they’re talking about.


Cloth masks help. Are they perfect?  Nope. Are they better than N95s? Nope. But are they more than “theatre?”  Yep.

You would think being consistently wrong (remember Sweden?) would cause you to question your continued Covid takes, but I guess not.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: rocky_warrior on January 02, 2022, 03:23:38 PM
Scotty G was on the morning shows today saying a cloth mask does nothing since Covid is airborne. 

Fake news.

"Cloth masks aren't going to provide a lot of protection, that's the bottom line"
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/full-transcript-dr-scott-gottlieb-face-the-nation-january-2-2022/
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 02, 2022, 03:31:58 PM
https://twitter.com/VPrasadMDMPH/status/1477707606135226372

The science is settled.  Safe and effective they say.

Again just as a reminder.  Im double poked, believe anyone who wants to get it should get it and I encourage my family and friends to do it (had to talk my wife into it).  However mandating something we are still learning about is insane.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 02, 2022, 03:34:49 PM
Fake news.

"Cloth masks aren't going to provide a lot of protection, that's the bottom line"
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/full-transcript-dr-scott-gottlieb-face-the-nation-january-2-2022/

"Cloth masks are little more than facial decorations. There's no place for them in light of Omicron," said CNN Medical Analyst Dr. Leana Wen, an emergency physician and visiting professor of health policy and management at the George Washington University Milken Institute School of Public Health, on CNN Newsroom Tuesday.

Facial decorations Rocky.  At least Tower admitted awhile back that this is why he likes wearing his to hide his chubby face or something along those lines. 

Ive never seen a kid in school wear anything other then a cloth mask so good thing we had them doing that for the better part of 18 months. 
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 02, 2022, 03:35:55 PM
https://twitter.com/VPrasadMDMPH/status/1477707606135226372

The science is settled.  Safe and effective they say.

Again just as a reminder.  Im double poked, believe anyone who wants to get it should get it and I encourage my family and friends to do it (had to talk my wife into it).  However mandating something we are still learning about is insane.


Congrats.  You've found someone as big of a quack as you are.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: rocky_warrior on January 02, 2022, 03:39:04 PM
Congrats.  You've found someone as big of a quack as you are.

Right, plus he was putting words in Scott G's mouth.  I mean, if you have to lie to make your point...
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 02, 2022, 03:39:53 PM

Congrats.  You've found someone as big of a quack as you are.

Who these people?

Katie A Sharff MD a
, David M Dancoes b, Jodi L Longueil PharmD c, Eric S Johnson PhD b
, Paul F Lewis MD,
MPHd
a
 Department of Infectious Diseases, Kaiser Permanente Northwest, Portland, Oregon; b Department of
Analytics, Kaiser Permanente Northwest, Portland, Oregon; c Division of Pharmacy, Kaiser Permanente
Northwest, Portland, Oregon; d
 Department of Pediatrics, Kaiser Permanente Northwest, Portland
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 02, 2022, 03:41:22 PM
Right, plus he was putting words in Scott G's mouth.  I mean, if you have to lie to make your point...

Goodness.  Can lead a horse to water....
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: rocky_warrior on January 02, 2022, 03:43:14 PM
Goodness.  Can lead a horse to water....

I'm not debating any point your making, just pointing out your lies.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Skatastrophy on January 02, 2022, 03:45:51 PM

Cloth masks help. Are they perfect?  Nope. Are they better than N95s? Nope. But are they more than “theatre?”  Yep.

You would think being consistently wrong (remember Sweden?) would cause you to question your continued Covid takes, but I guess not.

Yep

Here's a list of approved surgical masks based on FDA testing. There's a lot more than just N95/KN95

"The table below includes a list of surgical masks authorized by this Umbrella EUA for emergency use during the COVID-19 public health emergency."

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19-emergency-use-authorizations-medical-devices/personal-protective-equipment-euas#appendixa
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 02, 2022, 03:46:03 PM
I'm not debating any point your making, just pointing out your lies.

Sorry for not quoting him exactly but I think you're smart enough to now know (took you awhile) that a cloth mask is not going to do a thing in stopping the spread of Covid.  So if Fiserv, schools, businesses etc want to implement mask mandates they should at least require surgical masks otherwise it's little more then Covid theater.  Right??

Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 02, 2022, 03:47:43 PM

Cloth masks help. Are they perfect?  Nope. Are they better than N95s? Nope. But are they more than “theatre?”  Yep.

You would think being consistently wrong (remember Sweden?) would cause you to question your continued Covid takes, but I guess not.

They are not more then theatre.  Sweden continues to do very well in their Covid approach, you should take another look.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Uncle Rico on January 02, 2022, 03:48:33 PM
Sorry for not quoting him exactly but I think you're smart enough to now know (took you awhile) that a cloth mask is not going to do a thing in stopping the spread of Covid.  So if Fiserv, schools, businesses etc want to implement mask mandates they should at least require surgical masks otherwise it's little more then Covid theater.  Right??

I’m sure Rocky will let those businesses know and they’ll change their policies you unserious dolt
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 02, 2022, 03:49:13 PM
Who these people?

Katie A Sharff MD a
, David M Dancoes b, Jodi L Longueil PharmD c, Eric S Johnson PhD b
, Paul F Lewis MD,
MPHd
a
 Department of Infectious Diseases, Kaiser Permanente Northwest, Portland, Oregon; b Department of
Analytics, Kaiser Permanente Northwest, Portland, Oregon; c Division of Pharmacy, Kaiser Permanente
Northwest, Portland, Oregon; d
 Department of Pediatrics, Kaiser Permanente Northwest, Portland



No.  The cancer doctor tweeting conclusions that mislead the community and lapdogs like yourself.

If you read the study, this was already known.  It was reported in Israel.  But Covid is a much greater risk for mytocarditis than vaccination.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25133462-800-myocarditis-is-more-common-after-covid-19-infection-than-vaccination/
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: 4everwarriors on January 02, 2022, 03:49:44 PM
Kloth masks ar grate if ur intent iz ta rob a bank, hey?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 02, 2022, 03:51:50 PM
They are not more then theatre.  Sweden continues to do very well in their Covid approach, you should take another look.


LOL.  Sweden is doing well because they changed their approach from one you championed.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 02, 2022, 03:57:09 PM

LOL.  Sweden is doing well because they changed their approach from one you championed.

Here's one of the barking dogs who thinks he knows everything.  How ya doing Fluffy, happy new year to ya!
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 02, 2022, 04:01:36 PM
Here's one of the barking dogs who thinks he knows everything.  How ya doing Fluffy, happy new year to ya!


nm.  Done with you and your misinformation.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 02, 2022, 04:05:38 PM

nm.  Done with you and your misinformation.

It is you amigo who has spent 18 months spreading misinformation and it's all starting to come out.  Last question I pose to you, why no social distance requirements being enforced during this latest surge if those are so useful in limiting the spread of an airborne virus?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 02, 2022, 04:08:16 PM
It is you amigo who has spent 18 months spreading misinformation and it's all starting to come out.

So not only are you a dumba$$, you are also a liar.  Twice this afternoon alone.  Congrats.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 02, 2022, 04:11:33 PM
So not only are you a dumba$$, you are also a liar.  Twice this afternoon alone.  Congrats.

Classic Fluffy comeback.  Lies and name calling, you're doing great!!
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 02, 2022, 04:15:40 PM
Classic Fluffy comeback.  Lies and name calling, you're doing great!!

When you actually understand the data and articles you post, we can have a conversation.  But you don't, and haven't from the beginning.

You're an armchair idiot.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 02, 2022, 04:21:10 PM
When you actually understand the data and articles you post, we can have a conversation.  But you don't, and haven't from the beginning.

You're an armchair idiot.

If I'm an armchair idiot what does that make you?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Hards Alumni on January 02, 2022, 05:14:27 PM
If I'm an armchair idiot what does that make you?

You should find a new hobby.  You're not very good at this one.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 02, 2022, 05:22:49 PM
When you actually understand the data and articles you post, we can have a conversation.  But you don't, and haven't from the beginning.

You're an armchair idiot.

https://ianmsc.substack.com/p/the-media-and-the-experts-are-purposefully?r=kt9k9&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

Wondering what your opinion is of this article?  I read it and have a certain understanding/opinion.  Would love to hear why I’m wrong again.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 02, 2022, 05:25:23 PM
You should find a new hobby.  You're not very good at this one.

Man, this comment really hurts.  One thing for Jockey, Rico, MU82 to come down on you but for someone with the esteem and respect of Hards to say this will and should lead to some serious self reflection.  Even though it hurts to hear, thank you for sharing this Hards.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Hards Alumni on January 02, 2022, 05:31:08 PM
Man, this comment really hurts.  One thing for Jockey, Rico, MU82 to come down on you but for someone with the esteem and respect of Hards to say this will and should lead to some serious self reflection.  Even though it hurts to hear, thank you for sharing this Hards.

You're only proving my point.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 02, 2022, 05:43:18 PM
You're only proving my point.

And you mine. Thinking I give two sh*ts about your opinion of anything is hilarious.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Hards Alumni on January 02, 2022, 05:44:34 PM
And you mine. Thinking I give two sh*ts about your opinion of anything is hilarious.

Oh, I know.  You're so deep in the Dunning-Krueger sauce that you'll likely never get out.

I'll indulge you.  Why do you link blog posts from conspiracy theorists, and then expect anyone to take you seriously?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 02, 2022, 06:17:41 PM
Oh, I know.  You're so deep in the Dunning-Krueger sauce that you'll likely never get out.

I'll indulge you.  Why do you link blog posts from conspiracy theorists, and then expect anyone to take you seriously?

What’s the conspiracy?
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Hards Alumni on January 02, 2022, 06:57:28 PM
What’s the conspiracy?

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: 4everwarriors on January 02, 2022, 07:04:40 PM
Why You Should Ditch Your Cloth Masks for 3-Ply Surgical Masks, N95s

By Kelly Wairimu Davis, MS
masks
Dec. 29, 2021 -- Are you still wearing a cloth face mask?

Amid the rapidly spreading Omicron variant, experts stress that we all should swap cloth masks for N95 respirators or 3-ply surgical masks.


#shamatas
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 02, 2022, 07:07:39 PM
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

Ok so please explain then.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Johnny B on January 02, 2022, 07:55:52 PM
Kloth masks ar grate if ur intent iz ta rob a bank, hey?
just use a ski mask like a normal person.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 02, 2022, 08:30:28 PM
What are your thoughts on folks saying we're severely undercounting deaths from covid?

https://mobile.twitter.com/brocklyboy/status/1477425263491182593

Little reading to help you better understand instead of just replying with “Lulz”
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: jesmu84 on January 02, 2022, 08:36:13 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/brocklyboy/status/1477425263491182593

Little reading to help you better understand instead of just replying with “Lulz”

Got any credentials to go with that random Twitter name? Quick Google search didn't turn up anything

Here's something a little more substantial: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker

And for the US: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/12/09/covid-death-count-america-cdc/6435124001/
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 02, 2022, 08:55:59 PM
Got any credentials to go with that random Twitter name? Quick Google search didn't turn up anything

Here's something a little more substantial: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker

And for the US: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/12/09/covid-death-count-america-cdc/6435124001/

The credentials are the state by state breakdown of what they consider a Covid death, copy and pasted from their websites.  Read the thread.  I read your links and they say absolutely nothing or provide any actual data to this undercounting you are “theorizing”.  I did copy and paste this though…

 First, the official statistics in many countries exclude victims who did not test positive for coronavirus before dying—which can be a substantial majority in places with little capacity for testing. Second, hospitals and civil registries may not process death certificates for several days, or even weeks, which creates lags in the data. And third, the pandemic has made it harder for doctors to treat other conditions and discouraged people from going to hospital, which may have indirectly caused an increase in fatalities from diseases other than covid-19.

If the above 3 reasons are the hard facts to why we must be undercounting then give me a break!!
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 02, 2022, 09:04:23 PM
😂😂😂 Imagine using @brocklyboy as a source. 😂😂😂
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 02, 2022, 09:06:18 PM
The credentials are the state by state breakdown of what they consider a Covid death, copy and pasted from their websites.  Read the thread.  I read your links and they say absolutely nothing or provide any actual data to this undercounting you are “theorizing”.  I did copy and paste this though…

 First, the official statistics in many countries exclude victims who did not test positive for coronavirus before dying—which can be a substantial majority in places with little capacity for testing. Second, hospitals and civil registries may not process death certificates for several days, or even weeks, which creates lags in the data. And third, the pandemic has made it harder for doctors to treat other conditions and discouraged people from going to hospital, which may have indirectly caused an increase in fatalities from diseases other than covid-19.

If the above 3 reasons are the hard facts to why we must be undercounting then give me a break!!

Lol. So a lot of people are dying during during the pandemic, but not from the pandemic?

That is so dumb.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: rocky_warrior on January 02, 2022, 09:07:31 PM
😂😂😂 Imagine using @brocklyboy as a source. 😂😂😂

Even @brocklyboy would understand that cloth masks are inferior to other options, but also better than nothing.  Hence, a "knowledgeable" person according to pace.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 02, 2022, 09:16:39 PM
😂😂😂 Imagine using @brocklyboy as a source. 😂😂😂

It’s no wonder you guys are so misinformed.  Yes he is a random Twitter dude.  Any thoughts on the policy of counting any death of someone who had a positive PCR within 90 days of their death as a Covid death? 

If you’re relying on USA Today, CNN, etc as your only source of information then good luck to ya.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 02, 2022, 09:17:38 PM
Even @brocklyboy would understand that cloth masks are inferior to other options, but also better than nothing.  Hence, a "knowledgeable" person according to pace.

It is literally not better then nothing.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 02, 2022, 09:20:54 PM
It’s no wonder you guys are so misinformed.  Yes he is a random Twitter dude.  Any thoughts on the policy of counting any death of someone who had a positive PCR within 90 days of their death as a Covid death? 

If you’re relying on USA Today, CNN, etc as your only source of information then good luck to ya.

Here is what I know. A lot of people are dying. Many more than normal and more than have been attributed to Covid. I think it is a fair assumption that Covid has killed most of the difference. 

But I’m not @brocklyboy so what do I know.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 02, 2022, 09:22:52 PM
Here is what I know. A lot of people are dying. Many more than normal and more than have been attributed to Covid. I think it is a fair assumption that Covid has killed most of the difference. 

But I’m not @brocklyboy so what do I know.

You’ve proven to think you know a lot but far
more often then not you end up being wrong.  Read the thread and try to learn something. 
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: rocky_warrior on January 02, 2022, 09:23:02 PM
It is literally not better then nothing.

I mean, smarter people than you (everyone), knows that is false.

https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2021/09/surgical-masks-covid-19.html
Quote
“Unfortunately, much of the conversation around masking in the United States is not evidence-based,” Luby said. “Our study provides strong evidence that mask wearing can interrupt the transmission of SARS-CoV-2. It also suggests that filtration efficiency is important. This includes the fit of the mask as well as the materials from which it is made. A cloth mask is certainly better than nothing. But now might be a good time to consider upgrading to a surgical mask.”

*notice* not a twitter link, so you probably won't accept it
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 02, 2022, 09:28:34 PM
I mean, smarter people than you (everyone), knows that is false.

https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2021/09/surgical-masks-covid-19.html
*notice* not a twitter link, so you probably won't accept it


You must have missed this from earlier.  A facial decoration.


Cloth masks are little more than facial decorations. There's no place for them in light of Omicron," said CNN Medical Analyst Dr. Leana Wen, an emergency physician and visiting professor of health policy and management at the George Washington University Milken Institute School of Public Health, on CNN Newsroom Tuesday.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 02, 2022, 09:32:09 PM
You’ve proven to think you know a lot but far
more often then not you end up being wrong.  Read the thread and try to learn something. 

I read it. It doesn’t address why people a lot of people are dying if not Covid.

The problem is soft minded people like you think some rando’s Twitter is authoritative.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Hards Alumni on January 02, 2022, 09:35:14 PM

You must have missed this from earlier.  A facial decoration.


Cloth masks are little more than facial decorations. There's no place for them in light of Omicron," said CNN Medical Analyst Dr. Leana Wen, an emergency physician and visiting professor of health policy and management at the George Washington University Milken Institute School of Public Health, on CNN Newsroom Tuesday.

For the sake of your mental health, put your phone away.  Get off twitter, get off facebook, stop visiting nonsense websites that only confirm your biases. 

It isn't healthy.  And it is turning your brain into pudding.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: The Sultan of Semantics on January 02, 2022, 09:37:59 PM
My guess is that Leana Wen is only an authoritative source when Pace wants her to be, because she believes a lot of things that Pace has been against since this has started. 😂😂😂
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 02, 2022, 09:38:36 PM
For the sake of your mental health, put your phone away.  Get off twitter, get off facebook, stop visiting nonsense websites that only confirm your biases. 

It isn't healthy.  And it is turning your brain into pudding.

Still waiting for the big conspiracy I’m failing to understand that you were going to explain to me big boy.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 02, 2022, 09:39:18 PM
My guess is that Leana Wen is only an authoritative source when Pace wants her to be, because she believes a lot of things that Pace has been against since this has started. 😂😂😂

Your projecting. 
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: rocky_warrior on January 02, 2022, 09:58:25 PM
You must have missed this from earlier.  A facial decoration.


Cloth masks are little more than facial decorations. There's no place for them in light of Omicron," said CNN Medical Analyst Dr. Leana Wen, an emergency physician and visiting professor of health policy and management at the George Washington University Milken Institute School of Public Health, on CNN Newsroom Tuesday.

Try to keep up lie boy.  You said they were "literally not better then nothing".  Another lie.  Like lying about what Scott G said.  You just can't help yourself.  So full of lies.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: pacearrow02 on January 02, 2022, 10:04:34 PM
Try to keep up lie boy.  You said they were "literally not better then nothing".  Another lie.  Like lying about what Scott G said.  You just can't help yourself.  So full of lies.

My brain is turning to mush??
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: Hards Alumni on January 02, 2022, 10:35:49 PM
Still waiting for the big conspiracy I’m failing to understand that you were going to explain to me big boy.

Again, I'm not sure if you have a fundamental reading problem or a learning disability or what your deal is.  What I said was: I can explain it to you, but I cannot make you understand it.

Read that slowly.  Let it wash over you.  Become one with what I'm saying.
Title: Re: Omicron variant
Post by: 4everwarriors on January 03, 2022, 07:30:13 AM
Let's play dodge da virus. Cool, hey?