MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: JakeBarnes on June 22, 2021, 11:19:30 AM
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Superbar this if you want. But scathing article from Madison today has to have Shaka calling all Wisconsin area recruits and talking about how he values relationships first. Sounds like Gard is on some thin ice
https://madison.com/wsj/sports/college/basketball/men/wisconsin-men-s-basketball-seniors-confronted-greg-gard-in-secretly-recorded-meeting-here-s-what/article_bf1afb44-c2fe-5983-86fb-4c107e776e15.html?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_ (https://madison.com/wsj/sports/college/basketball/men/wisconsin-men-s-basketball-seniors-confronted-greg-gard-in-secretly-recorded-meeting-here-s-what/article_bf1afb44-c2fe-5983-86fb-4c107e776e15.html?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_)
A few tidbits:
“I just feel like, coach, we don’t have a relationship,” said Nate Reuvers, a four-year starter. “In my mind, it’s too late for that. I personally don’t think or feel like you care about our future aspirations.
I can’t talk to you. I just don’t want to talk to you. After this, coach, I don’t know what type of relationship we’re going to have, if we have one.”
Anderson:
“You always ask, ‘Why is everybody getting so defensive? Why can’t anybody take it?’ (Because) I think that’s what you do to us, you’re always pointing the finger,” Anderson said during the meeting. “I think the defense mechanism is everybody’s pointing the finger at somebody else — I’m pointing at Brad, Brad’s pointing at Aleem — I think that comes down to a lot of, like, what you do to us.”
Honestly, while it's only been a few months I am super happy to have Shaka as our coach--he definitely values the players as people first and foremost.
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Positively delectable
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Then Sam Dekker comes off the top rope in support of Gard-O
Who the hell gave these guys the idea that they’re bigger than the program?
Never been angrier reading an article.
And recording a meeting is the softest thing I’ve ever seen. Grow up.
Coaches coach.
Gard isn’t the one on a 8 min scoring drought every game. Get outta here.
https://twitter.com/dekker/status/1407360904757456897?s=20 (https://twitter.com/dekker/status/1407360904757456897?s=20)
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Well, when an all-time NBA great like Sam Dekker speaks up, it means something! Also, given his long tenure at Wisconsin playing while Gard was the head coach there, it makes him an authority of how Gard has done his job since being promoted.
That's delicious stuff from Reuvers and Anderson -- and a nice tool that rivals can use against the tool who coaches the Rats.
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Then Sam Dekker comes off the top rope in support of Gard-O
https://twitter.com/dekker/status/1407360904757456897?s=20 (https://twitter.com/dekker/status/1407360904757456897?s=20)
Who was it that said Dekker was the only NBA teammate they hated? This tracks.
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See now that we have dueling threads, with one also going in the Superbar.
Mods ... combine?
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God, this is so good. Slap these on billboards leading into Madison. Project them on the Kohl Center.
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Who was it that said Dekker was the only NBA teammate they hated? This tracks.
JR Smith.
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JR Smith.
Yup. Supposedly involving a racial slur.
Obligatory gif for whenever Sam Dekker’s NBA career is mentioned:
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/21c4da6957b9f4d5d0862ad2034ba9ae/tenor.gif?itemid=12285266)
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Full audio:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4klW61CUcM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4klW61CUcM)
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Full audio:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4klW61CUcM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4klW61CUcM)
Next season, Floppy McNutpuncher will be assigned to cup all players for a wire before every team meeting.
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Should have just written a letter.
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Should have just written a letter.
That’s a good point. Thought Anderson would have known to do that.
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JR Smith.
That's right, thank you. Something about Dekker spouting Trumper stuff on the team bus. Hope he's loving his time in Turkey.
And none of this about Gard is really surprising - it's been a pretty open secret that he's not a "player's coach". Old alums love coaches like this - too bad for them that today's recruits have no time for it.
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Dekkar's right.
Those players have all the toughness of 5th grade girls. Probably less.
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More people should record meetings. It's the best way to protect yourself.
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Gratified that Walt McGrory was able to get these things off his chest.
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More people should record meetings. It's the best way to protect yourself.
100%.
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More people should record meetings. It's the best way to protect yourself.
This is potentially bad advice.
Best to check the laws in your state first. Several states - California, Illinois, Florida and Pennsylvania among them - require "two-party" consent to record a conversation, i.e. everyone involved has to know they're being recorded.
Had this occurred in Michigan instead of Wisconsin, the person who recorded the meeting would have been guilty of a crime (presuming here, as seems to be the case, that Gard was unaware he was being recorded).
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Dekkar's right.
Those players have all the toughness of 5th grade girls. Probably less.
So is Drakkar, but more pleasant smelling
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This is potentially bad advice.
Best to check the laws in your state first. Several states - California, Illinois, Florida and Pennsylvania among them - require "two-party" consent to record a conversation, i.e. everyone involved has to know they're being recorded.
Had this occurred in Michigan instead of Wisconsin, the person who recorded the meeting would have been guilty of a crime (presuming here, as seems to be the case, that Gard was unaware he was being recorded).
As of several years ago, I believe that Virginia was the only state that allowed a conversation to be legally recorded without the knowledge of one party. Way back in the Clinton era, that's why Linda Tripp invited Monica Lewinsky to join her in Virginia rather than Maryland or DC to meet up so she could legally record what Monica said. As you have said, it's illegal in many (maybe 49) states and you can be charged with a crime and probably sued.
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Joey and Sam are mentioned, this is just weird.
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Dekkar's right.
Those players have all the toughness of 5th grade girls. Probably less.
A couple things. Dekker seems to assume that one of the players was the source of the audio which isn't proven and most Badger insiders believe Alando Tucker did this on his way out as an assistant coach. So to call out the players over something that was supposed to be a private conversation is entirely unfair on Dekker's part IMO. Additionally, players having grievances with their coach isn't anything new and stuff like this happens all the time.
But to me what makes this different is it confirms what Greg Gard said about the transfer portal that prompted the reaction from Koby McEwan and others. If Greg Gard's own players believe he doesn't care about them and he then state's that players shouldn't transfer if they are unhappy because it makes it more difficult for him to coach, perhaps we should connect the dots about what Greg Gard thinks of his players and the college athlete. Keep in mind his comments regarding the transfer portal would've come after this player meeting.
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Joey and Sam are mentioned, this is just weird.
In what context?
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I suspect these meetings occur a lot in D1 basketball. A likeable/big personality coach is better equipped to keep these grievances in the locker room. I believe a coach’s soft skills are as important as his bench coach skills for these reasons.
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As of several years ago, I believe that Virginia was the only state that allowed a conversation to be legally recorded without the knowledge of one party. Way back in the Clinton era, that's why Linda Tripp invited Monica Lewinsky to join her in Virginia rather than Maryland or DC to meet up so she could legally record what Monica said. As you have said, it's illegal in many (maybe 49) states and you can be charged with a crime and probably sued.
Here's a list of one-party vs two-party consent states.
https://www.justia.com/50-state-surveys/recording-phone-calls-and-conversations/
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This is potentially bad advice.
Best to check the laws in your state first. Several states - California, Illinois, Florida and Pennsylvania among them - require "two-party" consent to record a conversation, i.e. everyone involved has to know they're being recorded.
Had this occurred in Michigan instead of Wisconsin, the person who recorded the meeting would have been guilty of a crime (presuming here, as seems to be the case, that Gard was unaware he was being recorded).
Yes, I should have added that you should know the laws in your state before doing that.
As of several years ago, I believe that Virginia was the only state that allowed a conversation to be legally recorded without the knowledge of one party. Way back in the Clinton era, that's why Linda Tripp invited Monica Lewinsky to join her in Virginia rather than Maryland or DC to meet up so she could legally record what Monica said. As you have said, it's illegal in many (maybe 49) states and you can be charged with a crime and probably sued.
I think you have some facts twisted. Some states require "two-party consent" meaning all parties in the conversation must be aware that they are being recorded.
Most states are "one-party consent" states, meaning only one person in the conversation needs to be aware of the recording. This prevents an unknown third party from recording a private conversation but allows for members of that conversation to record it even if the others in the conversation are not aware of the recording.
(https://recordinglaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/United-States.jpg)
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Greg Gard is a fraud
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More people should record meetings. It's the best way to protect yourself.
It wouldn't have done a thing to save Joey when Brad Davison came running by.
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In what context?
Anderson talking about how good their relationship and his was with his dad compared to Gard.
Two different people mentioned the Marquette loss, which is hilarious cause their fans think MU is a mid major/ nobody. (Rent free now, I guess).
More importantly, it shows how much some people were going through mental health wise during the pandemic. To me anyway, it’s hard to listen to Reuvers especially, all of the stuff that was going on. I really feel for them.
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Thanks for the clarification TAMU.
Anyway, the point is check out the state laws before recording a conversation. I think that "ignorance of the law is no excuse" applies everywhere.
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Dekkar's right.
Those players have all the toughness of 5th grade girls. Probably less.
So is Drakkar, but more pleasant smelling
Did you just admit that you know what fifth grade girls smell like?
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This is such a delicious story on so many levels, I hardly know where to start. But I do know one thing. This is not your garden variety "coach may have a mutiny on his hands story". This is going to linger and fester and I think eventually cost Gard his job. May take a year or two.
I'm 67 and pretty much only ask for about 5 more things to check off the list:
1. Get to Heaven.
2. Maintain reasonable health in remaining years.
3. Hold the dice for 1 hour straight on a $25 craps table.
4. Watch Marquette win National Championship--again.
5. Watch UW basketball program implode.
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Yes, I should have added that you should know the laws in your state before doing that.
I think you have some facts twisted. Some states require "two-party consent" meaning all parties in the conversation must be aware that they are being recorded.
Most states are "one-party consent" states, meaning only one person in the conversation needs to be aware of the recording. This prevents an unknown third party from recording a private conversation but allows for members of that conversation to record it even if the others in the conversation are not aware of the recording.
(https://recordinglaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/United-States.jpg)
Not my area of law. But say Alando Tucker did record this, and did not speak in the conversation. Is he a part of the conversation, so the "one-party" is covered. Or is akin to sitting at a table in a restaurant, and recording their conversation?
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As of several years ago, I believe that Virginia was the only state that allowed a conversation to be legally recorded without the knowledge of one party. Way back in the Clinton era, that's why Linda Tripp invited Monica Lewinsky to join her in Virginia rather than Maryland or DC to meet up so she could legally record what Monica said. As you have said, it's illegal in many (maybe 49) states and you can be charged with a crime and probably sued.
It's only against the law in Illinois when the unknowing party "has a reasonable expectation of privacy". Illinois politicians know that they need to protect themselves.
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This is such a delicious story on so many levels, I hardly know where to start. But I do know one thing. This is not your garden variety "coach may have a mutiny on his hands story". This is going to linger and fester and I think eventually cost Gard his job. May take a year or two.
I'm 67 and pretty much only ask for about 5 more things to check off the list:
1. Get to Heaven.
2. Maintain reasonable health in remaining years.
3. Hold the dice for 1 hour straight on a $25 craps table.
4. Watch Marquette win National Championship--again.
5. Watch UW basketball program implode.
I would rather give Gard a lifetime contract than him lose his job.
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Anderson talking about how good their relationship and his was with his dad compared to Gard.
Two different people mentioned the Marquette loss, which is hilarious cause their fans think MU is a mid major/ nobody. (Rent free now, I guess).
More importantly, it shows how much some people were going through mental health wise during the pandemic. To me anyway, it’s hard to listen to Reuvers especially, all of the stuff that was going on. I really feel for them.
In what context? Can you point to the time stamps? I just really don't want to listen for 37min
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Then Sam Dekker comes off the top rope in support of Gard-O
https://twitter.com/dekker/status/1407360904757456897?s=20 (https://twitter.com/dekker/status/1407360904757456897?s=20)
Deleted it
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Deleted it
Which, this one?
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A couple things. Dekker seems to assume that one of the players was the source of the audio which isn't proven and most Badger insiders believe Alando Tucker did this on his way out as an assistant coach. So to call out the players over something that was supposed to be a private conversation is entirely unfair on Dekker's part IMO. Additionally, players having grievances with their coach isn't anything new and stuff like this happens all the time.
But to me what makes this different is it confirms what Greg Gard said about the transfer portal that prompted the reaction from Koby McEwan and others. If Greg Gard's own players believe he doesn't care about them and he then state's that players shouldn't transfer if they are unhappy because it makes it more difficult for him to coach, perhaps we should connect the dots about what Greg Gard thinks of his players and the college athlete. Keep in mind his comments regarding the transfer portal would've come after this player meeting.
That's interesting if Alando Tucker released the tape. I was curious why he was let go and replaced without much news about it. Not related, but Howard Moore is no longer on their team page either (he was on the website for the past 1.5 years).
When I saw this story drop, my initial thought was that this paves the way for the new Athletic Director to fire Gard and start fresh with his own guy. Given the way Gard got the job, it wouldn't surprise me if the new AD wanted to move away from the the legacies/politics of Barry Alvarez and Bo Ryan.
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In what context? Can you point to the time stamps? I just really don't want to listen for 37min
Same.
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That's interesting if Alando Tucker released the tape. I was curious why he was let go and replaced without much news about it. Not related, but Howard Moore is no longer on their team page either (he was on the website for the past 1.5 years).
When I saw this story drop, my initial thought was that this paves the way for the new Athletic Director to fire Gard and start fresh with his own guy. Given the way Gard got the job, it wouldn't surprise me if the new AD wanted to move away from the the legacies/politics of Barry Alvarez and Bo Ryan.
And Alando Tucker was sole men's BB representative on the search committee for the new AD...
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Which, this one?
Must have been - link says tweet is unavailable
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That's interesting if Alando Tucker released the tape. I was curious why he was let go and replaced without much news about it. Not related, but Howard Moore is no longer on their team page either (he was on the website for the past 1.5 years).
When I saw this story drop, my initial thought was that this paves the way for the new Athletic Director to fire Gard and start fresh with his own guy. Given the way Gard got the job, it wouldn't surprise me if the new AD wanted to move away from the the legacies/politics of Barry Alvarez and Bo Ryan.
Knowing the nature of the UW Athletic Department, I don't think they have any desire to replace Greg Gard right now.
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About MU…
Anderson noting he got sh$t from “frat guys” after the loss.
Someone mentioning that Potter got blamed for not boxing out on the final play. Can’t remember what context it was in.
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Alvarez 100% behind Gard...
https://twitter.com/BadgerMBB/status/1407410666940608518
I might have sided with the players if they had a beef with the way Gard coached and told him so. But this ridiculous, laughable, touchy/feely "you don't care about me" is just players wanting to be babied and coddled. It is very indicative of this time, though.
When I played HS sports at Arrowhead, I had a very successful coach who was a total hard ass, but it never would have occurred to me to be worried if he "cared" about me. The guy did a great job and that was all that mattered.
BTW, it's not a good look at all to edit out Gard's comments from the meeting. We all know that if he had said something that could be used against him, the remarks would have been included.
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More people should record meetings. It's the best way to protect yourself.
No offense, but no. Just...no.
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Alvarez 100% behind Gard...
https://twitter.com/BadgerMBB/status/1407410666940608518
I might have sided with the players if they had a beef with the way Gard coached and told him so. But this ridiculous, laughable, touchy/feely "you don't care about me" is just players wanting to be babied and coddled. It is very indicative of this time, though.
When I played HS sports at Arrowhead, I had a very successful coach who was a total hard ass, but it never would have occurred to me to be worried if he "cared" about me. The guy did a great job and that was all that mattered.
BTW, it's not a good look at all to edit out Gard's comments from the meeting. We all know that if he had said something that could be used against him, the remarks would have been included.
Actually, we don't KNOW. They may have been edited out because they didn't have Gard's permission to use them. But I don't KNOW that, I can admit that I'm only speculating.
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I might have sided with the players if they had a beef with the way Gard coached and told him so. But this ridiculous, laughable, touchy/feely "you don't care about me" is just players wanting to be babied and coddled. It is very indicative of this time, though.
Oh here we go. We are going to make this a global "sign of the times" now.
When I played HS sports at Arrowhead...
::) ::) ::)
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Alvarez 100% behind Gard...
https://twitter.com/BadgerMBB/status/1407410666940608518
I might have sided with the players if they had a beef with the way Gard coached and told him so. But this ridiculous, laughable, touchy/feely "you don't care about me" is just players wanting to be babied and coddled. It is very indicative of this time, though.
When I played HS sports at Arrowhead, I had a very successful coach who was a total hard ass, but it never would have occurred to me to be worried if he "cared" about me. The guy did a great job and that was all that mattered.
BTW, it's not a good look at all to edit out Gard's comments from the meeting. We all know that if he had said something that could be used against him, the remarks would have been included.
Yeah because you played high school sports you totally get how tough it was for college athletes in a Covid year and earned the right to call them soft.
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Which, this one?
That's the one. I believe Ben Brust and Brian Butch said similar things as well on radio shows this morning.
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That's the one. I believe Ben Brust and Brian Butch said similar things as well on radio shows this morning.
Gard was a very well liked "soldier" in the Bo Ryan Crime Family. Never really offended anyone, just did his job, was a super nice guy. In fact he was so nice that some weren't sure he could coach because he never tried to show how smart he was. Everyone just liked him. So it doesn't surprise me to see any former player fall in line behind him.
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Alvarez 100% behind Gard...
https://twitter.com/BadgerMBB/status/1407410666940608518
I might have sided with the players if they had a beef with the way Gard coached and told him so. But this ridiculous, laughable, touchy/feely "you don't care about me" is just players wanting to be babied and coddled. It is very indicative of this time, though.
When I played HS sports at Arrowhead, I had a very successful coach who was a total hard ass, but it never would have occurred to me to be worried if he "cared" about me. The guy did a great job and that was all that mattered.
When I was their age ... men were men!
Our coaches throttled us around the throats and made us run till we puked and blamed us for things that weren't our fault ... and we loved it cuz that's how life is supposed to be!
Now you've got all these namby-pamby kids who believe in equality and believe people should be "nice" to each other and believe coaches should "respect" their players. What a bunch of losers!
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Oh here we go. We are going to make this a global "sign of the times" now.
These players probably got participation trophies when they were kids.
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That's interesting if Alando Tucker released the tape. I was curious why he was let go and replaced without much news about it. Not related, but Howard Moore is no longer on their team page either (he was on the website for the past 1.5 years).
When I saw this story drop, my initial thought was that this paves the way for the new Athletic Director to fire Gard and start fresh with his own guy. Given the way Gard got the job, it wouldn't surprise me if the new AD wanted to move away from the the legacies/politics of Barry Alvarez and Bo Ryan.
from Potrykus:
Chris McIntosh, set to officially replace Barry Alvarez as University of Wisconsin athletic director in a little more than a week, vigorously defended men’s basketball coach Greg Gard on Tuesday.
McIntosh shared his thoughts in the wake of a leaked audio recording from a meeting held one day after UW’s 77-62 home loss to Iowa on Feb. 18. The edited recording, furnished Monday to the Wisconsin State Journal, includes critical comments from the team’s seven seniors. “In terms of going forward, Greg has our support,” McIntosh said Tuesday by phone. “Does (this) make it easier for us? It doesn’t. But I think we understand what Coach Gard is all about and how much he does care about his players.
“Our assessment of that takes place on a day-by-day basis over the course of years. Not one recording that was edited.”
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Not my area of law. But say Alando Tucker did record this, and did not speak in the conversation. Is he a part of the conversation, so the "one-party" is covered. Or is akin to sitting at a table in a restaurant, and recording their conversation?
My understanding is that if Alando Tucker was invited to the meeting and the parties were aware that he was present in the room, he has a legal ability to record the conversation even if he chose not to speak. The law is intended to protect from a third party that the parties are not aware of recording a conversation in a private space, not protect from a person who everyone knows is present in the private space.
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from Potrykus:
Chris McIntosh, set to officially replace Barry Alvarez as University of Wisconsin athletic director in a little more than a week, vigorously defended men’s basketball coach Greg Gard on Tuesday...
Potrykus and I have very different definitions of "vigorously"
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These players probably got participation trophies when they were kids.
They are all Zoomers. They only played eSports. No trophies or ribbons, just digital badges.
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Potrykus and I have very different definitions of "vigorously"
Give Potrykus credit, he found time to rally behind the coach and program in record time
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Yeah of course they are going to defend him now. That's what they should do. If he wins, it will quickly be forgotten. But if he doesn't and is fired after this year or next, they won't say this is a factor.
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Potrykus and I have very different definitions of "vigorously"
Exactly.
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These players probably got participation trophies when they were kids.
I've heard some of these players can't even shoot. They have their moms shoot for them.
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This is such a delicious story on so many levels, I hardly know where to start. But I do know one thing. This is not your garden variety "coach may have a mutiny on his hands story". This is going to linger and fester and I think eventually cost Gard his job. May take a year or two.
I'm 67 and pretty much only ask for about 5 more things to check off the list:
1. Get to Heaven.
2. Maintain reasonable health in remaining years.
3. Hold the dice for 1 hour straight on a $25 craps table.
4. Watch Marquette win National Championship--again.
5. Watch UW basketball program implode.
This is one of the greatest posts I've ever read on Scoop.
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Alvarez 100% behind Gard...
https://twitter.com/BadgerMBB/status/1407410666940608518
I might have sided with the players if they had a beef with the way Gard coached and told him so. But this ridiculous, laughable, touchy/feely "you don't care about me" is just players wanting to be babied and coddled. It is very indicative of this time, though.
When I played HS sports at Arrowhead, I had a very successful coach who was a total hard ass, but it never would have occurred to me to be worried if he "cared" about me. The guy did a great job and that was all that mattered.
BTW, it's not a good look at all to edit out Gard's comments from the meeting. We all know that if he had said something that could be used against him, the remarks would have been included.
Buzz was a hard ass who's players generally felt like he cared about them....I think you can do both. Generally speaking you can coach a kid harder if the kids knows you care about him and are pushing him for the right reasons. This also isn't Arrowhead, and we should consider that on multiple levels.
I feel bad for the guy from Arrowhead if he missed out on developing strong relationships with his players...far more fun and lasting than winning HS basketball games...
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Alvarez 100% behind Gard...
https://twitter.com/BadgerMBB/status/1407410666940608518
I might have sided with the players if they had a beef with the way Gard coached and told him so. But this ridiculous, laughable, touchy/feely "you don't care about me" is just players wanting to be babied and coddled. It is very indicative of this time, though.
When I played HS sports at Arrowhead, I had a very successful coach who was a total hard ass, but it never would have occurred to me to be worried if he "cared" about me. The guy did a great job and that was all that mattered.
BTW, it's not a good look at all to edit out Gard's comments from the meeting. We all know that if he had said something that could be used against him, the remarks would have been included.
Odd take.
I would find it soft if one of these players did the leak.
But why is it soft that players had a private meeting with their coach to let them know what was going on wasn't working?
And most of these guys were their main players. Guys who get heavy minutes and opportunitiy. They weren't complaining because they don't wanna earn their spot. They felt like their coach didnt have their back and addressed it.
I'm not a big support Badgers kinda guy, love seeing the turmoil. But also hard to hate on kids who tried to privately bring up issues with their coach rather than potentially just jumping ship and transferring immediately.
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These players probably got participation trophies when they were kids.
At least those kids played sports. I know some kids who didn't do anything and there muscles still got atrophy.
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Oh here we go. We are going to make this a global "sign of the times" now.
::) ::) ::)
You saved me the trouble of typing it.
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When I was their age ... men were men!
Our coaches throttled us around the throats and made us run till we puked and blamed us for things that weren't our fault ... and we loved it cuz that's how life is supposed to be!
Now you've got all these namby-pamby kids who believe in equality and believe people should be "nice" to each other and believe coaches should "respect" their players. What a bunch of losers!
You should only be nice to people that think the same as you. Everyone else can go to hell.
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Alvarez 100% behind Gard...
https://twitter.com/BadgerMBB/status/1407410666940608518
I might have sided with the players if they had a beef with the way Gard coached and told him so. But this ridiculous, laughable, touchy/feely "you don't care about me" is just players wanting to be babied and coddled. It is very indicative of this time, though.
When I played HS sports at Arrowhead, I had a very successful coach who was a total hard ass, but it never would have occurred to me to be worried if he "cared" about me. The guy did a great job and that was all that mattered.
BTW, it's not a good look at all to edit out Gard's comments from the meeting. We all know that if he had said something that could be used against him, the remarks would have been included.
Arrowhead stinks
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Gard should handle it the way Al did:
"You had to be tough (or know how to fake it) to play for McGuire, because eventually you had to fight him before practice, during it, afterward or following games. Joe Hughes, who played with McGuire at St. John’s before transferring to Denver, said he witnessed Al going round and round in the Marquette locker room with macho forward Maurice Lucas.
Bruised and bleeding, his shirt ripped to shreds, McGuire casually remarked, “He’ll think twice about disrespecting me again.”
https://nypost.com/2009/04/05/mcguire-an-unorthodox-legend/
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Buzz was a hard ass who's players generally felt like he cared about them....I think you can do both. Generally speaking you can coach a kid harder if the kids knows you care about him and are pushing him for the right reasons. This also isn't Arrowhead, and we should consider that on multiple levels.
I feel bad for the guy from Arrowhead if he missed out on developing strong relationships with his players...far more fun and lasting than winning HS basketball games...
Excellent post, excellent points.
Odd take.
I would find it soft if one of these players did the leak.
But why is it soft that players had a private meeting with their coach to let them know what was going on wasn't working?
And most of these guys were their main players. Guys who get heavy minutes and opportunitiy. They weren't complaining because they don't wanna earn their spot. They felt like their coach didnt have their back and addressed it.
I'm not a big support Badgers kinda guy, love seeing the turmoil. But also hard to hate on kids who tried to privately bring up issues with their coach rather than potentially just jumping ship and transferring immediately.
Yep, yep.
Gard should handle it the way Al did:
"You had to be tough (or know how to fake it) to play for McGuire, because eventually you had to fight him before practice, during it, afterward or following games. Joe Hughes, who played with McGuire at St. John’s before transferring to Denver, said he witnessed Al going round and round in the Marquette locker room with macho forward Maurice Lucas.
Bruised and bleeding, his shirt ripped to shreds, McGuire casually remarked, “He’ll think twice about disrespecting me again.”
https://nypost.com/2009/04/05/mcguire-an-unorthodox-legend/
I think Al would have adapted to the way today's kids think and act.
If I'm wrong, and he refused to adapt, he'd have had trouble keeping a job.
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Odd take.
I would find it soft if one of these players did the leak.
But why is it soft that players had a private meeting with their coach to let them know what was going on wasn't working?
And most of these guys were their main players. Guys who get heavy minutes and opportunitiy. They weren't complaining because they don't wanna earn their spot. They felt like their coach didnt have their back and addressed it.
I'm not a big support Badgers kinda guy, love seeing the turmoil. But also hard to hate on kids who tried to privately bring up issues with their coach rather than potentially just jumping ship and transferring immediately.
And were seniors on their way out the door. All the respect for them being mature about this
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Being accused of not caring about your players as people is the worst thing a coach can be accused of. Any other criticism can be neutralized with “but coach really cared about me.”
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More people should record meetings. It's the best way to protect yourself.
Reminds me of the compliance guy in Billions when Axe agrees to forfeit his right to trade.
Do you really do this?
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No offense, but no. Just...no.
absolutely agree here hound! might as well just wire everyone up...gee, can't think of much harm there ::) trial lawyer$ are licking their chop$
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This is one of the greatest posts I've ever read on Scoop.
Held the dice for 50 minutes at Ceasars Palace at like 1 in the morning, the whole table was packed with 2 deep behind. The guy next to me was betting 500 dollars
on the open numbers and killing it. Me and my friends won 12K, it was something you never forget!
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Greg McDermott made blatantly racist comments, lost just about his entire team, then enrolled his best ever recruiting class, so I'm not really expecting this to be the end of Gard.
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Held the dice for 50 minutes at Ceasars Palace at like 1 in the morning, the whole table was packed with 2 deep behind. The guy next to me was betting 500 dollars
on the open numbers and killing it. Me and my friends won 12K, it was something you never forget!
did ya record it?
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did ya record it?
We need Marquette Mike to record his whispers.
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did ya record it?
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Might have lost it the next day!
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absolutely agree here hound! might as well just wire everyone up...gee, can't think of much harm there ::) trial lawyer$ are licking their chop$
Why would they be licking their chops unless people are doing illegal things? Aren't you pro law and order?
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No offense, but no. Just...no.
Why?
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Why would they be licking their chops unless people are doing illegal things? Aren't you pro law and order?
And from what I've read, also pro 'the truth coming out'
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Why would they be licking their chops unless people are doing illegal things? Aren't you pro law and order?
absolutely for law and order...where did i say anything about laws being broken? who around here is against law and order?
i just don't think everything needs to be recorded unless one is reasonably aware or notified
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not sure a meeting was the best course of action here. shoulda wrote a letter
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absolutely for law and order...where did i say anything about laws being broken? who around here is against law and order?
i just don't think everything needs to be recorded unless one is reasonably aware or notified
Law & Order sucks
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absolutely for law and order...where did i say anything about laws being broken?
You said trial lawyers would be living their chops. Wouldn't they only be licking their chops if the recording was of laws being broken? And if a law is being broken, isn't having a recording of it a good thing for law and order?
i just don't think everything needs to be recorded unless one is reasonably aware or notified
Better talk to the cops I work with on a weekly basis. Their go to opening move in most cases is "sneaky tapes" or "dummy tapes" as some of the cops jokingly call them. This is where they ask the victim to call the perp and try to record a confession of the crime.
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Then Sam Dekker comes off the top rope in support of Gard-O
https://twitter.com/dekker/status/1407360904757456897?s=20 (https://twitter.com/dekker/status/1407360904757456897?s=20)
man, am I agreeing with Sam? What a bunch of snowflakes.
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Well, when an all-time NBA great like Sam Dekker speaks up, it means something! Also, given his long tenure at Wisconsin playing while Gard was the head coach there, it makes him an authority of how Gard has done his job since being promoted.
That's delicious stuff from Reuvers and Anderson -- and a nice tool that rivals can use against the tool who coaches the Rats.
change your moniker to snowflake.
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Kant have law and order wen da cops are defunded, hey?
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Kant have law and order wen da cops are defunded, hey?
Thanks, Fox and Friends
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Kant have law and order wen da cops are defunded, hey?
Orr wen yer god's cultists ar beeting kops ovur da heds wit flagpoles, nu?
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Keep tellin' y'all, wee be hedin' fore civil war, hey?
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Keep tellin' y'all, wee be hedin' fore civil war, hey?
What a maroon.
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Kant have law and order wen da cops are defunded, hey?
Cops are an analgesic to law & order. Law & order is overrated.
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Keep tellin' y'all, wee be hedin' fore civil war, hey?
Q
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Cops are an analgesic to law & order. Law & order is overrated.
Dick Wolf disagrees.
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Dick Wolf disagrees.
Very overrated. Darn Hollywood a$$
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SVU is a guilty pleasure show for me. It's fun to watch how badly they represent the reality of that kind of work.
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Anderson talking about how good their relationship and his was with his dad compared to Gard.
Two different people mentioned the Marquette loss, which is hilarious cause their fans think MU is a mid major/ nobody. (Rent free now, I guess).
More importantly, it shows how much some people were going through mental health wise during the pandemic. To me anyway, it’s hard to listen to Reuvers especially, all of the stuff that was going on. I really feel for them.
Sic! Well.... we played like a mid major nobody for at least 5 of the last 7 seasons.
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SVU is a guilty pleasure show for me. It's fun to watch how badly they represent the reality of that kind of work.
I did enjoy the new Stabler series first season.
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This is Law and Order
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8qmOEz1OnU
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This is Law and Order
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8qmOEz1OnU
LOVED that episode
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This is Law and Order
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8qmOEz1OnU
MOVE...NOT POLICE BUSINESS!
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Sic! Well.... we played like a mid major nobody for at least 5 of the last 7 seasons.
Wojo, who many consider the worst coach in MU history, went 4-3 against UW.
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Is Shaka Law & Order guy?
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Held the dice for 50 minutes at Ceasars Palace at like 1 in the morning, the whole table was packed with 2 deep behind. The guy next to me was betting 500 dollars
on the open numbers and killing it. Me and my friends won 12K, it was something you never forget!
I learned how to play craps on a spring break cruise my senior year of college. The second night, I had what is still to date my longest roll. Had the dice for about 35-40 min. I remember multiple middle aged guys fighting with their wives cause they wanted them to leave the table. Older man next to me had a 4/10 strategy going and would hand me a $50 every time I tossed one. At the end of my roll, another guy walked up and handed me $250 in chips and clapped me on the back. It was nuts.
Even more nuts was I had no clue what I was doing with betting and was on a stingey college kid table mins. I made nearly as much from the “tips” as I did from winnings. It’s haunts me that if I had the same kind of roll hit today knowing what I do, it would being a comfortable 5 figure payday
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I learned how to play craps on a spring break cruise my senior year of college. The second night, I had what is still to date my longest roll. Had the dice for about 35-40 min. I remember multiple middle aged guys fighting with their wives cause they wanted them to leave the table. Older man next to me had a 4/10 strategy going and would hand me a $50 every time I tossed one. At the end of my roll, another guy walked up and handed me $250 in chips and clapped me on the back. It was nuts.
Even more nuts was I had no clue what I was doing with betting and was on a stingey college kid table mins. I made nearly as much from the “tips” as I did from winnings. It’s haunts me that if I had the same kind of roll hit today knowing what I do, it would being a comfortable 5 figure payday
That's awesome, Wags. I love craps ... though it's freakin' addictive (and that's not a good thing).
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I think Al would have adapted to the way today's kids think and act.
If I'm wrong, and he refused to adapt, he'd have had trouble keeping a job.
I wasn't alive when MU won their championship but was very fortunate to spend time around Al in his later years. Not a ton of time by any means, but enough to discuss some things in-depth. In those talks, and much more from reading about Al and those teams, it seemed like Al was a tough-as-nails guy...but his players knew he loved them and he supported the hell out of his players. Doing so along racial and other lines, for self-serving purposes or not, was likely why he was so successful. You let Bo Ellis design your jerseys, figure out ways for him to take classes off-campus, etc... and you can coach him in a tough manner, even fight with him, and know that the relationship is strong. That person may even realize you are fighting with him out of love. I certainly did so with my brothers, teammates, etc...
I remember Buzz talking about the struggles of Todd Mayo and saying Todd hadn't been loved. To me, that was Buzz saying, I'm being hard as hell on this kid because I love him, but letting him know it was out of love. I get that a coach who wins is more valuable at the CBB level than one who gets along well with his players and loses, but I think most of the time the reality is coaches that win have strong relationships with their players.
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I wasn't alive when MU won their championship but was very fortunate to spend time around Al in his later years. Not a ton of time by any means, but enough to discuss some things in-depth. In those talks, and much more from reading about Al and those teams, it seemed like Al was a tough-as-nails guy...but his players knew he loved them and he supported the hell out of his players. Doing so along racial and other lines, for self-serving purposes or not, was likely why he was so successful. You let Bo Ellis design your jerseys, figure out ways for him to take classes off-campus, etc... and you can coach him in a tough manner, even fight with him, and know that the relationship is strong. That person may even realize you are fighting with him out of love. I certainly did so with my brothers, teammates, etc...
I remember Buzz talking about the struggles of Todd Mayo and saying Todd hadn't been loved. To me, that was Buzz saying, I'm being hard as hell on this kid because I love him, but letting him know it was out of love. I get that a coach who wins is more valuable at the CBB level than one who gets along well with his players and loses, but I think most of the time the reality is coaches that win have strong relationships with their players.
Great post, avid. Thanks.
I think Shaka shows a lot of that in his management style -- updated for the 2020s, of course -- and that's one big reason why I and so many others think he has a shot at success at Marquette.
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Keep tellin' y'all, wee be hedin' fore civil war, hey?
You're smarter than this.
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You're smarter than this.
Is he?
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You're smarter than this.
But not wise
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You're smarter than this.
“When someone shows you who they are believe them the first time.” - Maya Angelou
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You're smarter than this.
Assuming facts not in evidence, counselor.
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Great post, avid. Thanks.
I think Shaka shows a lot of that in his management style -- updated for the 2020s, of course -- and that's one big reason why I and so many others think he has a shot at success at Marquette.
If you see the transfer portal as some boogey man that just takes your kids, you're not going to be very successful in anything, much less, college basketball. Al would have thrived today, just as I feel Shaka will.
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Assuming facts not in evidence, counselor.
We both know that he is usually just playing a character.
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We both know that he is usually just playing a character.
Not really, he is more truthful by "playing the character" can say what he really means and then hide behind the character.
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Not really, he is more truthful by "playing the character" can say what he really means and then hide behind the character.
When you realize that he is trolling half the time, you begin to understand him.
When he types out a long coherent paragraph that actually explains his views it's very obvious.
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If you see the transfer portal as some boogey man that just takes your kids, you're not going to be very successful in anything, much less, college basketball. Al would have thrived today, just as I feel Shaka will.
ding ding ding. Winner
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When you realize that he is trolling half the time, you begin to understand him.
When he types out a long coherent paragraph that actually explains his views it's very obvious.
If you believe this, then why were you calling out his post?
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If you see the transfer portal as some boogey man that just takes your kids, you're not going to be very successful in anything, much less, college basketball. Al would have thrived today, just as I feel Shaka will.
Maybe, but Al would have had to make a ton of adjustments. So many so, that I think he would have rather not coached than coach the way is currently necessary.
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If you believe this, then why were you calling out his post?
You got me there. I fall for his traps just as often as everyone else around here.
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We both know that he is usually just playing a character.
Is he? I mean, I get that it's all schtick, but I don't think his character's musings are all that different from those of 4ever IRL. Just spelled worse.
If he's playing a character, it's a semi-autobiographical role.
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When you realize that he is trolling half the time, you begin to understand him.
When he types out a long coherent paragraph that actually explains his views it's very obvious.
LOL, whatever he is who he is. Uses pretend to shield his truth.
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Is he? I mean, I get that it's all schtick, but I don't think his character's musings are all that different from those of 4ever IRL. Just spelled worse.
If he's playing a character, it's a semi-autobiographical role.
fair
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Is he? I mean, I get that it's all schtick, but I don't think his character's musings are all that different from those of 4ever IRL. Just spelled worse.
If he's playing a character, it's a semi-autobiographical role.
This, hiding behind the curtain.
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Not hiding at all. He's told us who he is a million times. He just has the unfunniest schtick of all time to go with it.
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If you see the transfer portal as some boogey man that just takes your kids, you're not going to be very successful in anything, much less, college basketball. Al would have thrived today, just as I feel Shaka will.
Yep, yep.
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Not hiding at all. He's told us who he is a million times. He just has the unfunniest schtick of all time to go with it.
Well he tries kind of
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Save the civil war stuff for Gerg Grad and the Bagder fans, aina?
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Maybe, but Al would have had to make a ton of adjustments. So many so, that I think he would have rather not coached than coach the way is currently necessary.
My favorite Al quote is: I may not agree with everything they say or do, but at least I'm smart enough to consider maybe I could be wrong and they could be right.
Guys who think like that, they make adjustments easily.
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My favorite Al quote is: I may not agree with everything they say or do, but at least I'm smart enough to consider maybe I could be wrong and they could be right.
Guys who think like that, they make adjustments easily.
I'm not questioning whether he could, I questioning whether he would. There's a lot of stuff Al did that wouldn't fly in today's game. I just doubt that he would be willing to deal with all that.
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I'm not questioning whether he could, I questioning whether he would. There's a lot of stuff Al did that wouldn't fly in today's game. I just doubt that he would be willing to deal with all that.
It's impossible to know for sure, but assuming he wanted to coach at Marquette, or anywhere in college, or even in the pros for that matter, he'd have to at least try.
This ain't the 70s or 80s or even 90s. You can't scream at your players 24/7, you can't choke them, and you can't get into fistfights with them. So if you want to coach in the 2020s, you need to know how to relate to them. If you can't, there are thousands of other occupations out there.
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It's impossible to know for sure, but assuming he wanted to coach at Marquette, or anywhere in college, or even in the pros for that matter, he'd have to at least try.
This ain't the 70s or 80s or even 90s. You can't scream at your players 24/7, you can't choke them, and you can't get into fistfights with them. So if you want to coach in the 2020s, you need to know how to relate to them. If you can't, there are thousands of other occupations out there.
That's the thing, I doubt that he'd want to. Al was the definition of a "my way or the highway" kind of guy. If he had to deal with all the stuff that he would, I think he'd absolutely walk away with a "I don't need this" kind of mindset.
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That's the thing, I doubt that he'd want to. Al was the definition of a "my way or the highway" kind of guy. If he had to deal with all the stuff that he would, I think he'd absolutely walk away with a "I don't need this" kind of mindset.
I happen to think he'd have adjusted because he'd have been "of this time." But again, we'll never know.
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I remember Jimmy Butler telling how after a few weeks in Milwaukee he called his stepmother and begged her to send him the $ to get back to Houston because Buzz wasn't respectful to him, did not like him, and would yell at him. His stepmother told him if he wanted to quit he would have to pay for the flight.
A few summers ago a friend of mine ran into Jimmy in rural France and asked him if he stayed in touch with Buzz. Jimmy said "We talk and we text all the time".
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I happen to think he'd have adjusted because he'd have been "of this time." But again, we'll never know.
On the court stuff (3 point line, shot clock, shortened shot clock, block/charge adjustments, freedom of movement rules, etc.) I think he'd have been fine. Program running stuff (transfer culture, recruiting culture, AAU connection importance, shoe company connections, etc.), I think he'd take one look at, and decide it's not worth it.
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I happen to think he'd have adjusted because he'd have been "of this time." But again, we'll never know.
I think he would have been more comfortable at NBA level now
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Maybe, but Al would have had to make a ton of adjustments. So many so, that I think he would have rather not coached than coach the way is currently necessary.
But that was my point...he was ahead of his time then...why wouldn't he be now. To say Bobby Knight wouldn't thrive today is probably legit..."old school", refused to change, not politically correct, etc. Al was ahead of his time and used an unwillingness by others to change, especially around race and individual identity, to beat the competition. I also think he also had a good heart and knew he was imperfect...that was sincere and appreciated.
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I think he would have been more comfortable at NBA level now
He wanted to be with the Bucks and MU wouldn't let him leave? Is that correct?
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He wanted to be with the Bucks and MU wouldn't let him leave? Is that correct?
Totally disagree, the NBA is work, Al did not really like to work, barely made it to practices. Was a free spirit. Secondly, Al was all about making money. The money
in college for good or even bad coaches (Wojo) now is tremendous. Perks all over the place. Al with his own MU airplane, who knows where we would have gone.
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He wanted to be with the Bucks and MU wouldn't let him leave? Is that correct?
Yes Jesuits didn't allow he got upset
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The inability of so many Scoopers to think contextually never ceases to amaze me. Al McGuire loved his guys and fought for his guys but he was the boss, a disciplinarian. What that meant in the late 1960s and the 1970s is not the exact same thing that it means now. Al was born (I think) in1930 and was between 34 and 47 when he coached at Marquette. So if he was mid career at MU now he would be 41, born in 1980. Does anyone honestly believe that the Al McGuire born in 1930 would have exactly the same style as an Al McGuire born 50 years later? His teams would still be tough and disciplined. He would still be a character who could work a room. His players would still love him. But fistfights in locker rooms? That wouldn’t have been part of his experience as a player or a coach. Why some people don’t get that baffles me.
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The inability of so many Scoopers to think contextually never ceases to amaze me. Al McGuire loved his guys and fought for his guys but he was the boss, a disciplinarian. What that meant in the late 1960s and the 1970s is not the exact same thing that it means now. Al was born (I think) in1930 and was between 34 and 47 when he coached at Marquette. So if he was mid career at MU now he would be 41, born in 1980. Does anyone honestly believe that the Al McGuire born in 1930 would have exactly the same style as an Al McGuire born 50 years later? His teams would still be tough and disciplined. He would still be a character who could work a room. His players would still love him. But fistfights in locker rooms? That wouldn’t have been part of his experience as a player or a coach. Why some people don’t get that baffles me.
Agreed.
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The inability of so many Scoopers to think contextually never ceases to amaze me. Al McGuire loved his guys and fought for his guys but he was the boss, a disciplinarian. What that meant in the late 1960s and the 1970s is not the exact same thing that it means now. Al was born (I think) in1930 and was between 34 and 47 when he coached at Marquette. So if he was mid career at MU now he would be 41, born in 1980. Does anyone honestly believe that the Al McGuire born in 1930 would have exactly the same style as an Al McGuire born 50 years later? His teams would still be tough and disciplined. He would still be a character who could work a room. His players would still love him. But fistfights in locker rooms? That wouldn’t have been part of his experience as a player or a coach. Why some people don’t get that baffles me.
And it amazes me that scoopers think that they guy that said "F you NCAA, I don't like the seed you gave me so I'm going to go win the NIT instead" would jump through all the hoops of dealing with the AAU circuit, dealing with shoe companies, dealing with boosters, dealing with players parents acting as agents for their 18 year old kids.
Also, a trade mark of Al's teams were that the upperclassmen ran the show. It wasnt just that Freshman couldn't play, it was that he ran with his older guys, always. Convincing kids to not play/marginally play until their Juniors can't be done the way it was in his day.
Further, imagine how how both the fans and boosters would react to finding out that the head coach is not only not running practice, but hes doing a completely unrelated motorcycle ride instead.
Al was truly a legend of his time, but part of the reason he walked away was because he saw the way the game was heading. Theres no shame in saying that and it doesn't diminish his legacy at all.
All IMO of course.
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Is he? I mean, I get that it's all schtick, but I don't think his character's musings are all that different from those of 4ever IRL. Just spelled worse.
If he's playing a character, it's a semi-autobiographical role.
True, Pakuni, and a good observation. If your supposition is true (and I think it is), then both are vacuous and inane. Sticking with that tired schtick for so long indicates neurosis.
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And it amazes me that scoopers think that they guy that said "F you NCAA, I don't like the seed you gave me so I'm going to go win the NIT instead" would jump through all the hoops of dealing with the AAU circuit, dealing with shoe companies, dealing with boosters, dealing with players parents acting as agents for their 18 year old kids.
Also, a trade mark of Al's teams were that the upperclassmen ran the show. It wasnt just that Freshman couldn't play, it was that he ran with his older guys, always. Convincing kids to not play/marginally play until their Juniors can't be done the way it was in his day.
Further, imagine how how both the fans and boosters would react to finding out that the head coach is not only not running practice, but hes doing a completely unrelated motorcycle ride instead.
Al was truly a legend of his time, but part of the reason he walked away was because he saw the way the game was heading. Theres no shame in saying that and it doesn't diminish his legacy at all.
All IMO of course.
I actually agree with you, too.
What I said was that I think Al would have adjusted ... but that if he didn't, he'd have had to find another profession.
And it wouldn't have been pro basketball, either, if he couldn't handle dealing with college kids.
But what I think Lenny is saying (and I'm agreeing with) is the "old Al" wouldn't have existed in that exact form today. Every coach is an authoritarian and a control freak. Back then, 30 years earlier, today, whenever. Al still would have been, but maybe he'd have been more Buzz-like than Knight-like, if you understand what I'm saying.
If Al didn't coach today, I actually think it would have been because he didn't want to work the crazy hours they have to now, not because he couldn't have gotten along with today's kids. I think he'd have been great at that part of it.
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82.
Sounds like we mostly agree. For the 2 hours twice a week on the court during the season, Al would continue to be exceptional. The rest of the time I think he would grow tired of the "other" BS real quick.
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On the court stuff (3 point line, shot clock, shortened shot clock, block/charge adjustments, freedom of movement rules, etc.) I think he'd have been fine. Program running stuff (transfer culture, recruiting culture, AAU connection importance, shoe company connections, etc.), I think he'd take one look at, and decide it's not worth it.
Lol, are you kidding me? Al was an edge guy. And he always knew how to find the edge. The more chaos, the better.
And honestly, if you didn’t know Al, or you don’t know someone who did, it might be time to sit this one out.
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Lol, are you kidding me? Al was an edge guy. And he always knew how to find the edge. The more chaos, the better.
And honestly, if you didn’t know Al, or you don’t know someone who did, it might be time to sit this one out.
Weird gatekeeping, but okay. I've made my point pretty clearly in this thread. Al didn't take sh!t from anyone, he would not deal with the level of sh!t in todays game. No way to prove it, no way to disprove it. Not trying to diminish Al in any way (and dont think I am), so I'm not really sure why you're getting so agitated about this hypothetical.
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And it amazes me that scoopers think that they guy that said "F you NCAA, I don't like the seed you gave me so I'm going to go win the NIT instead" would jump through all the hoops of dealing with the AAU circuit, dealing with shoe companies, dealing with boosters, dealing with players parents acting as agents for their 18 year old kids.
Also, a trade mark of Al's teams were that the upperclassmen ran the show. It wasnt just that Freshman couldn't play, it was that he ran with his older guys, always. Convincing kids to not play/marginally play until their Juniors can't be done the way it was in his day.
Further, imagine how how both the fans and boosters would react to finding out that the head coach is not only not running practice, but hes doing a completely unrelated motorcycle ride instead.
Al was truly a legend of his time, but part of the reason he walked away was because he saw the way the game was heading. Theres no shame in saying that and it doesn't diminish his legacy at all.
All IMO of course.
1.When Al gave the proverbial finger to the NCAA a) you could and b) the NIT was still a prestigious tournament. The NCAA made a rule that said never again and “Voila!” Never as much as a peep from Al.
2. George Thompson and Dean Meminger were stars as sophomores (there first season of eligibility). Jim Chones and Bo Ellis we’re stars as freshmen. If you could play you did. A senior (Bill Neary) might start over a freshman, especially one with an ego problem (Bernard Toone) but in the NCAA tourney Toone got the big minutes.
3. If you had the 2nd most successful program in college basketball the reaction would be crickets or bemusement. It would only have cemented his image - as it did then.
4. Al walked away just like he would today - on his own terms. He wasn’t a “lifer” at anything, including coaching. It was one of the reasons he was so interesting.
Sorry, but your arguments are either silly of ignore context.
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LOL, sorry for upsetting the "you better not say anything in any way negative about anything to do with the 70s" crowd. It's my opinion that Al wouldnt deal with what it would take to coach today. You guys can stop gnashing your dentures and put them away for the night. Funny watching the geezers get upset though.
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Truly impressed by the absolute certainty some people have over how a person they don't know would have acted if magically transported 50 years into the future.
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LOL, sorry for upsetting the "you better not say anything in any way negative about anything to do with the 70s" crowd. It's my opinion that Al wouldnt deal with what it would take to coach today. You guys can stop gnashing your dentures and put them away for the night. Funny watching the geezers get upset though.
We won’t discuss anything negative about Al? Guess you haven’t seen threads on his technicals that cost us another chance at a FF (vs Indiana) or another National Championship (vs NC State). And plenty of folks were pissed that he left at such a young age (47) and that he anointed Hank as his successor when Denny Crum was supposedly interested. And other stuff too.
But no problem, DJO. You’re entitled to your opinion, no matter how uninformed. It’s in the Scoop Bill of Rights.
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We won’t discuss anything negative about Al? Guess you haven’t seen threads on his technicals that cost us another chance at a FF (vs Indiana) or another National Championship (vs NC State). And plenty of folks were pissed that he left at such a young age (47) and that he anointed Hank as his successor when Denny Crum was supposedly interested. And other stuff too.
But no problem, DJO. You’re entitled to your opinion, no matter how uninformed. It’s in the Scoop Bill of Rights.
Whatever man, I've expressed my opinion (with "IMO" and "it's my opinions"). You clearly disagree, that's your opinion. It's a hypothetical. No one is "right" or "wrong".
Learned the difference between a team stat and an individual stat yet?
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Whatever man, I've expressed my opinion (with "IMO" and "it's my opinions"). You clearly disagree, that's your opinion. It's a hypothetical. No one is "right" or "wrong".
Learned the difference between a team stat and an individual stat yet?
Whatever, “man”. All opinions aren’t created equal. Some are informed by the facts, some are made up without any factual underpinnings.
Whether making dopey misstatements re Al or insisting that leading a team (that goes 3-4 without you) to 50 wins in 51 games is “meaningless” you are very good at the latter.
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Whatever, “man”. All opinions aren’t created equal. Some are informed by the facts, some are made up without any factual underpinnings.
Whether making dopey misstatements re Al or insisting that leading a team (that goes 3-4 without you) to 50 wins in 51 games is “meaningless” you are very good at the latter.
Honest question, do you know what a hypothetical is? There’s not going to be some “gotcha” moment. That you don’t seem to understand this is honestly a bit concerning? The fact that your argument is
4. Al walked away just like he would today - on his own terms. He wasn’t a “lifer” at anything, including coaching. It was one of the reasons he was so interesting.
Makes me think that we actually mostly agree. It’s my opinion that if he could observe the current landscape of the game he would choose to walk away on his own term (to use your words). Again, this can’t be proved or disproved. The fact that you seem to be trying to prove otherwise makes me think that you’re just arguing for arguing’s sake. Not trying to shame or anything, that’s what the internet is for, just want to make sure that you know that there is literally no way for you to prove yourself right.
Don't know if you've got some beef against me personally, or you just really like trying to prove unproveable points, but the whole "I've been around longer so I automatically know more than you, and because of that your opinions are wrong" vibe you're throwing off is really a strange one.
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On a road trip out west Al rerouted the team travel itinerary to DFW so Chones would meet with the ABA. That’s not exactly “my way or the highway”.
That’s some Coach Cal level stuff right there. Players first.
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Some additional content, for observational sake.
Maybe..... I think
I questioning whether he would..... I just doubt
I think
I think
All IMO of course.
The rest of the time I think
No way to prove it, no way to disprove it.
It's my opinion
I've expressed my opinion
It’s my opinion
vs.
His teams would still be tough and disciplined.
Opinion stated as fact
He would still be a character who could work a room.
Opinion stated as fact
His players would still love him.
Opinion stated as fact
That wouldn’t have been part of his experience as a player or a coach.
Opinion stated as fact.
Some people leave themselves open for discussion, some people always think they're the smartest in the room and just want to argue. To each their own.
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Honest question, do you know what a hypothetical is? There’s not going to be some “gotcha” moment. That you don’t seem to understand this is honestly a bit concerning? The fact that your argument is
When you base your hypothetical on misstatements of facts (like Al only ran with his upperclassmen, you had to be a junior before you got playing time) your hypothetical has no value. Don’t you get that? Do you really think a hypothetical based on facts is equivalent to one based on fiction?
DJO, I have absolutely nothing against you personally. You’re very likely a good guy. So are the “geezers” with the dentures who post here. And just maybe they have a better grasp of the facts from their time as students than you do.
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And just maybe they have a better grasp of the facts from their time as students than you do.
But maybe aren't the best at predicting personalities sent through the time machine - eh?
sometime in 2072: "Lenny's tap was wise and had historical perspective on MUScoop. He would be master of this virtual artificial intelligence bar, dipcrap!"
also in 2072: "Nope. Rip Lennys tap"
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Son, sit down.
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But maybe aren't the best at predicting personalities sent through the time machine - eh?
Ding, ding, ding.
Son, sit down.
Interesting that you felt the need to respond to a post that you weren't involved in. Please continue your gatekeeping, it's working tremendously so far.
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When you base your hypothetical on misstatements of facts (like Al only ran with his upperclassmen, you had to be a junior before you got playing time) your hypothetical has no value. Don’t you get that? Do you really think a hypothetical based on facts is equivalent to one based on fiction?
DJO, I have absolutely nothing against you personally. You’re very likely a good guy. So are the “geezers” with the dentures who post here. And just maybe they have a better grasp of the facts from their time as students than you do.
Thanks for the respectful response. I didn't say that you HAD to be a Junior to get playing time, I said that Al running with his older players was a staple. While there are examples of players getting minutes as underclassmen, there are also plenty of examples of underclassmen that were better players being passed on in favor of upperclassmen (Bernard Toone, that little incident during the Cincinnati game).
I'm really not quite sure where the rest of your disagreement comes from. I stated that Al would have had to adjust, this seems to be pretty much universally accepted because of how the game has changed. I just don't believe that Al would have wanted to deal with all the adjustments necessary. It's fine if you think he would, I just disagree.
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Ding, ding, ding.
Interesting that you felt the need to respond to a post that you weren't involved in. Please continue your gatekeeping, it's working tremendously so far.
Or I could be you, someone who insists Al was a “my way or the highway guy” even when someone presents evidence (bc they or someone close to them were there) that Al rerouted the team plane so that the best player could go pro.
And btw if Al McGuire is involved in any argument, I’m involved in it. It’s sort of the family business.
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I kinda think that if Al were around today, he would be coaching in the NBA and not college.
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Or I could be you, someone who insists Al was a “my way or the highway guy” even when someone presents evidence (bc they or someone close to them were there) that Al rerouted the team plane so that the best player could go pro.
And btw if Al McGuire is involved in any argument, I’m involved in it. It’s sort of the family business.
Telling someone that they can't participate in a discussion unless they either knew Al, or knew someone who did (which coincidently I do) is the fastest way to get someone to continue in the discussion.
Think Sultan is right, if he were a coach today, it'd probably be in the NBA. Also see Lenny's point point about Al not being a "lifer" at anything, so if he were still around, there's a strong possibility that he wouldn't be involved in basketball in any way. That's the whole point of a hypothetical, we don't know.
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One of the reasons he wasn't a "lifer" is because he wanted to make more money, which is why he left for Medalist in the first place. It would be a lot harder for him to walk away from the salaries he would be making in either college or NBA now.
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Telling someone that they can't participate in a discussion unless they either knew Al, or knew someone who did (which coincidently I do) is the fastest way to get someone to continue in the discussion.
Think Sultan is right, if he were a coach today, it'd probably be in the NBA. Also see Lenny's point point about Al not being a "lifer" at anything, so if he were still around, there's a strong possibility that he wouldn't be involved in basketball in any way. That's the whole point of a hypothetical, we don't know.
I don't mean to jump all over you, but "my way or the highway" is the absolute worst way to describe the Al McGuire Era.
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I don't mean to jump all over you, but "my way or the highway" is the absolute worst way to describe the Al McGuire Era.
Getting into literal fistfights with your players, and giving the NCAA the middle finger suggest a "my way or the highway" mentality. Are there other mentalities in that era too? Sure, "my teams are arrogant and obnoxious" is a pretty good summary, but "I don't discuss basketball, I dictate basketball" is very much similar to a "mworth" mindset.
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"I may not agree with Goose on Vietnam or with everything the blacks say on campus, but at least it's occurred to me that they could be right and I could be wrong"
--- Alfred James McGuire
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Quotes citing the Vietnam War, and quotes citing basketball are two very different things. You can be incredibly open to other's suggestions/opinions on topics not related to your profession, and at the same time have the "I run this program, what I say goes" mentality surrounding your job. The two philosophies are not mutually exclusive.
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Quotes citing the Vietnam War, and quotes citing basketball are two very different things. You can be incredibly open to other's suggestions/opinions on topics not related to your profession, and at the same time have the "I run this program, what I say goes" mentality surrounding your job. The two philosophies are not mutually exclusive.
Running a program is about way more than basketball.
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I kinda think that if Al were around today, he would be coaching in the NBA and not college.
Agreed, because that’s where he’d make the most money. I think he tried to leave for the Bucks while he was at MU.
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Getting into literal fistfights with your players, and giving the NCAA the middle finger suggest a "my way or the highway" mentality. Are there other mentalities in that era too? Sure, "my teams are arrogant and obnoxious" is a pretty good summary, but "I don't discuss basketball, I dictate basketball" is very much similar to a "mworth" mindset.
The horse is dead. Quit beating it. You’re just channeling Chico -arguing just to argue. And believe me, Lenny has forgotten more about Al than you’ve ever known about Al.
Al’s only “my way or the highway” was on the defensive end of the floor. He otherwise encouraged individuality in almost every other facet of his coaching and leadership.
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The horse is dead. Quit beating it. You’re just channeling Chico -arguing just to argue. And believe me, Lenny has forgotten more about Al than you’ve ever known about Al.
Al’s only “my way or the highway” was on the defensive end of the floor. He otherwise encouraged individuality in almost every other facet of his coaching and leadership.
It's a hypothetical, in the offseason. You are by no means required to read or participate in the discussion.
Lenny almost certainly knows more about Al than I do, that does not mean that Lenny would know what would go through Al's head today. Neither do you, and neither do I.
As for your last statement, that is certainly your opinion, there is evidence to both support and refute that opinion. When Bo approached him about designing the unis, he encouraged him, when Bernard approached him about playing more he tackled him.
For the record, a "my way or the highway" mindset for a coach is not exactly a slight. Sure you get input from players/coaches/AD's, but in any position (not just coaching), if the buck stops with you, you should and do get the final say on just about everything.
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Ok time to shift to Wojo is my way or the highway and he chose the highway.
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Ok time to shift to Wojo is my way or the highway and he chose the highway.
Is this verified or is it just an accepted rumor?
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One of the reasons he wasn't a "lifer" is because he wanted to make more money, which is why he left for Medalist in the first place. It would be a lot harder for him to walk away from the salaries he would be making in either college or NBA now.
All true. Also true that Al didn’t love coaching basketball like many of his contemporaries. Best guess? He would have coached longer and almost for sure in the NBA - but I still don’t think he would have been a lifer. Just not who he was imo.
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Is this verified or is it just an accepted rumor?
WTF, this is Scoop!!!
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WTF, this is Scoop!!!
Scoop posts are required to list complete bibliographies. Examples are:
Ners, Dawson, et al (2014). "Slam Dunk: An Endless Loop of a Frustrated Point Guard's Theories." Helfaer Press
Chicos, Warrior Dad, Hoopaloop, et al (1992-2021). "Seven Years to Judge: The Traditional Stories of Rubbing Countless Elbows of Almost Famous C List Celebrities." The Other Shoe to Drop Press.
Anonymous (2008-2021). "Who Sliced the Meat? How My Career as a Sandwich Assembler Prepared Me for QAnon Success". Twice Flushed Press
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Scoop posts are required to list complete bibliographies. Examples are:
Ners, Dawson, et al (2014). "Slam Dunk: An Endless Loop of a Frustrated Point Guard's Theories." Helfaer Press
Chicos, Warrior Dad, Hoopaloop, et al (1992-2021). "Seven Years to Judge: The Traditional Stories of Rubbing Countless Elbows of Almost Famous C List Celebrities." The Other Shoe to Drop Press.
Anonymous (2008-2021). "Who Sliced the Meat? How My Career as a Sandwich Assembler Prepared Me for QAnon Success". Twice Flushed Press
Brilliant.
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Scoop posts are required to list complete bibliographies. Examples are:
Ners, Dawson, et al (2014). "Slam Dunk: An Endless Loop of a Frustrated Point Guard's Theories." Helfaer Press
Chicos, Warrior Dad, Hoopaloop, et al (1992-2021). "Seven Years to Judge: The Traditional Stories of Rubbing Countless Elbows of Almost Famous C List Celebrities." The Other Shoe to Drop Press.
Anonymous (2008-2021). "Who Sliced the Meat? How My Career as a Sandwich Assembler Prepared Me for QAnon Success". Twice Flushed Press
OMG! LOL!
The Doctor is in!
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Scoop posts are required to list complete bibliographies. Examples are:
Ners, Dawson, et al (2014). "Slam Dunk: An Endless Loop of a Frustrated Point Guard's Theories." Helfaer Press
Chicos, Warrior Dad, Hoopaloop, et al (1992-2021). "Seven Years to Judge: The Traditional Stories of Rubbing Countless Elbows of Almost Famous C List Celebrities." The Other Shoe to Drop Press.
Anonymous (2008-2021). "Who Sliced the Meat? How My Career as a Sandwich Assembler Prepared Me for QAnon Success". Twice Flushed Press
this is an all-timer
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Scoop posts are required to list complete bibliographies. Examples are:
Ners, Dawson, et al (2014). "Slam Dunk: An Endless Loop of a Frustrated Point Guard's Theories." Helfaer Press
Chicos, Warrior Dad, Hoopaloop, et al (1992-2021). "Seven Years to Judge: The Traditional Stories of Rubbing Countless Elbows of Almost Famous C List Celebrities." The Other Shoe to Drop Press.
Anonymous (2008-2021). "Who Sliced the Meat? How My Career as a Sandwich Assembler Prepared Me for QAnon Success". Twice Flushed Press
(https://media.tenor.com/images/3cdbc450520f6e8684e278fadcf9875c/tenor.gif)
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Scoop posts are required to list complete bibliographies. Examples are:
Ners, Dawson, et al (2014). "Slam Dunk: An Endless Loop of a Frustrated Point Guard's Theories." Helfaer Press
Chicos, Warrior Dad, Hoopaloop, et al (1992-2021). "Seven Years to Judge: The Traditional Stories of Rubbing Countless Elbows of Almost Famous C List Celebrities." The Other Shoe to Drop Press.
Anonymous (2008-2021). "Who Sliced the Meat? How My Career as a Sandwich Assembler Prepared Me for QAnon Success". Twice Flushed Press
To think I only pay $199.99 / Month for this website.
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Totally disagree, the NBA is work, Al did not really like to work, barely made it to practices. Was a free spirit. Secondly, Al was all about making money. The money
in college for good or even bad coaches (Wojo) now is tremendous. Perks all over the place. Al with his own MU airplane, who knows where we would have gone.
This article would say otherwise... https://behindthebuckpass.com/2020/03/24/milwaukee-bucks-pursuit-hire-al-mcguire-expansion-season/ (https://behindthebuckpass.com/2020/03/24/milwaukee-bucks-pursuit-hire-al-mcguire-expansion-season/)
One of my favorite Al quotes, "The priests at Marquette take a vow of poverty,” he said somewhat bitterly, “and they expect you to abide by it.”
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Dr. B drops the mic.
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Scoop posts are required to list complete bibliographies. Examples are:
Ners, Dawson, et al (2014). "Slam Dunk: An Endless Loop of a Frustrated Point Guard's Theories." Helfaer Press
Chicos, Warrior Dad, Hoopaloop, et al (1992-2021). "Seven Years to Judge: The Traditional Stories of Rubbing Countless Elbows of Almost Famous C List Celebrities." The Other Shoe to Drop Press.
Anonymous (2008-2021). "Who Sliced the Meat? How My Career as a Sandwich Assembler Prepared Me for QAnon Success". Twice Flushed Press
Perfection
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Scoop posts are required to list complete bibliographies. Examples are:
Ners, Dawson, et al (2014). "Slam Dunk: An Endless Loop of a Frustrated Point Guard's Theories." Helfaer Press
Chicos, Warrior Dad, Hoopaloop, et al (1992-2021). "Seven Years to Judge: The Traditional Stories of Rubbing Countless Elbows of Almost Famous C List Celebrities." The Other Shoe to Drop Press.
Anonymous (2008-2021). "Who Sliced the Meat? How My Career as a Sandwich Assembler Prepared Me for QAnon Success". Twice Flushed Press
Total respect brother Blackheart
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Total respect brother Blackheart
Blackheart (2021). "Don't Believe the Experts: Day-drinking Is Healthy". My Life on a Jimmy John's Napkin Press.
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Blackheart (2021). "Don't Believe the Experts: Day-drinking Is Healthy". My Life on a Jimmy John's Napkin Press.
Now y'all are just showin' off!
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The Lens (2021). "My Life in Teal: Scoop is best enjoyed BUZZed". Turners-Mike Deane's Teal-Colored Glasses Press.
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Scoop posts are required to list complete bibliographies. Examples are:
Ners, Dawson, et al (2014). "Slam Dunk: An Endless Loop of a Frustrated Point Guard's Theories." Helfaer Press
Chicos, Warrior Dad, Hoopaloop, et al (1992-2021). "Seven Years to Judge: The Traditional Stories of Rubbing Countless Elbows of Almost Famous C List Celebrities." The Other Shoe to Drop Press.
Anonymous (2008-2021). "Who Sliced the Meat? How My Career as a Sandwich Assembler Prepared Me for QAnon Success". Twice Flushed Press
Excellent
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This article would say otherwise... https://behindthebuckpass.com/2020/03/24/milwaukee-bucks-pursuit-hire-al-mcguire-expansion-season/ (https://behindthebuckpass.com/2020/03/24/milwaukee-bucks-pursuit-hire-al-mcguire-expansion-season/)
One of my favorite Al quotes, "The priests at Marquette take a vow of poverty,” he said somewhat bitterly, “and they expect you to abide by it.”
…Kevin O’Neill would agree
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https://www.jsonline.com/restricted/?return=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.jsonline.com%2Fstory%2Fsports%2Fcollege%2Fuw%2F2021%2F08%2F02%2Falando-tucker-tried-undermine-greg-gard-and-take-over-uw-coach-wisconsin-badgers%2F5456411001%2F
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https://www.jsonline.com/restricted/?return=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.jsonline.com%2Fstory%2Fsports%2Fcollege%2Fuw%2F2021%2F08%2F02%2Falando-tucker-tried-undermine-greg-gard-and-take-over-uw-coach-wisconsin-badgers%2F5456411001%2F
we all knew this was the case when the story broke.
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TL;DR if anyone wants it: Potrykus writes exactly what UW Athletic Department asks him to.
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TL;DR if anyone wants it: Potrykus writes exactly what UW Athletic Department asks him to.
Bingo. There’s probably more to the story but you’d have to get it from an outside source. Potrykus is a Gard apologist of the highest degree. Gard would have to shoot a player at mid court and even then, I’m not sure JayPo would criticize him
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Bingo. There’s probably more to the story but you’d have to get it from an outside source. Potrykus is a Gard apologist of the highest degree. Gard would have to shoot a player at mid court and even then, I’m not sure JayPo would criticize him
“It was the tough love the player needed to play the game the right way.”
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Scoop posts are required to list complete bibliographies. Examples are:
Ners, Dawson, et al (2014). "Slam Dunk: An Endless Loop of a Frustrated Point Guard's Theories." Helfaer Press
Chicos, Warrior Dad, Hoopaloop, et al (1992-2021). "Seven Years to Judge: The Traditional Stories of Rubbing Countless Elbows of Almost Famous C List Celebrities." The Other Shoe to Drop Press.
Anonymous (2008-2021). "Who Sliced the Meat? How My Career as a Sandwich Assembler Prepared Me for QAnon Success". Twice Flushed Press
Dr B
Post of the year and it’s not even close - we’ll done!
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Scoop posts are required to list complete bibliographies. Examples are:
Ners, Dawson, et al (2014). "Slam Dunk: An Endless Loop of a Frustrated Point Guard's Theories." Helfaer Press
Chicos, Warrior Dad, Hoopaloop, et al (1992-2021). "Seven Years to Judge: The Traditional Stories of Rubbing Countless Elbows of Almost Famous C List Celebrities." The Other Shoe to Drop Press.
Anonymous (2008-2021). "Who Sliced the Meat? How My Career as a Sandwich Assembler Prepared Me for QAnon Success". Twice Flushed Press
hot diggity this is funny!! don't forget ners 2.0 "who's who of who i dunked on and lived to tell about it"