MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => COVID-19 => Topic started by: muwarrior69 on May 14, 2021, 05:39:02 AM
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https://www.npr.org/2021/05/13/996705810/shopping-without-a-mask-depends-on-where-you-live-despite-new-cdc-guidelines
I guess it will take a few days or weeks for businesses to decide how to handle the new guideline. I am in the camp that if you are not vaccinated it is up to you if you want to mask or not and accept the risk of getting sick. Vaccinated folks don't have to be as concerned or worried. However I will comply with mask wearing if the business still requires I do so.
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. I am in the camp that if you are not vaccinated it is up to you if you want to mask or not and accept the risk of getting sick.
Not to start an argument, as that is not what message boards are for, but IF YOU ARE NOT VACCINATED, WEARING A MASK IS NOT MAINLY ABOUT KEEPING YOURSELF HEALTHY, IT IS ABOUT STOPPING THE SPREAD
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Not to start an argument, as that is not what message boards are for, but IF YOU ARE NOT VACCINATED, WEARING A MASK IS NOT MAINLY ABOUT KEEPING YOURSELF HEALTHY, IT IS ABOUT STOPPING THE SPREAD
But that is why they lifted the order. Science is showing that those who are vaccinated do not spread the virus.
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But that is why they lifted the order. Science is showing that those who are vaccinated do not spread the virus.
I agree, but the OP states for those who are NOT vaccinated, it is up to you if you want to wear the mask
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Let's be real here. People aren't going to be wearing masks regardless of their vaccination status.
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Connecticut Governor announced last night he's lifting the masking order, for vaccinated people, on May 19.
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Let's be real here. People aren't going to be wearing masks regardless of their vaccination status.
Totally agree.
For the last year, a significant percentage of Americans have worn masks only when absolutely forced to. Zillions chose to go sans masks to Sturgis or to political rallies or to protests or to other large events (that turned out to be superspreader events).
So the idea that millions will "out" themselves as unvaccinated and will do the intelligent, unselfish thing by wearing masks ... as you say, ain't gonna happen.
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Totally agree.
For the last year, a significant percentage of Americans have worn masks only when absolutely forced to. Zillions chose to go sans masks to Sturgis or to political rallies or to protests or to other large events (that turned out to be superspreader events).
So the idea that millions will "out" themselves as unvaccinated and will do the intelligent, unselfish thing by wearing masks ... as you say, ain't gonna happen.
Can't the government just scan people for their chips that were implemented at vaccination?
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To be honest, as a vaccinated person, I will be ignoring this.
A) Businesses will continue to enforce their mandates because it's too difficult and confrontational to attempt to have quality gates.
B) There's enough distrust out in society right now that I don't want to be accused of being an anti-vaxxer
C) Virtue signaling
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We have a mask mandate on campus. So if you are inside a building, you have to be masked unless you are in your personal workspace with appropriate spacing.
So far today, I have had two people who have asked if we are lifting this mandate based on the announcement yesterday. And they are people who took Covid quite seriously and are vaxxed up.
People are weary. Yesterday's message I think felt quite liberating for many.
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To be honest, as a vaccinated person, I will be ignoring this.
A) Businesses will continue to enforce their mandates because it's too difficult and confrontational to attempt to have quality gates.
B) There's enough distrust out in society right now that I don't want to be accused of being an anti-vaxxer
C) Virtue signaling
This +
I'm sure other factors have contributed to it (social distancing etc.), but the number of times that I've had even normal illness/colds has practically been zero over the last 18 months (only sick days have been when I ate something that my body really didn't agree with). Plus, wearing a mask is literally the smallest inconvenience I can think of. It's just like wearing glasses, where I forget I have it on after about 5 minutes. I will gladly enjoy going to sporting events/concerts again, but the only reason I can think of not to do those masked, is if I'm going to be eating/drinking, which I almost never do because of the absurd prices. Glad to be able to go out and do things again, but will probably do them masked.
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To be honest, as a vaccinated person, I will be ignoring this.
A) Businesses will continue to enforce their mandates because it's too difficult and confrontational to attempt to have quality gates.
B) There's enough distrust out in society right now that I don't want to be accused of being an anti-vaxxer
C) Virtue signaling
I rarely wear a mask outside, especially when I'm running, biking, or hiking. I do carry one and put it on if I'm walking by a crowded area. I'll continue to respect private business rules if they require them (restaurants, gyms, stores), but I won't give into mask shaming (the PNW has a lot of those who go after people who don't wear masks). Considering I didn't get a cold or the flu over the winter mask-wearing in certain circumstances is something I'll continue.
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I rarely wear a mask outside, especially when I'm running, biking, or hiking. I do carry one and put it on if I'm walking by a crowded area. I'll continue to respect private business rules if they require them (restaurants, gyms, stores), but I won't give into mask shaming (the PNW has a lot of those who go after people who don't wear masks). Considering I didn't get a cold or the flu over the winter mask-wearing in certain circumstances is something I'll continue.
As a fellow PNW resident, people back in the midwest are shocked when I've told them that most people wear masks walking down the sidewalk out here. Even if you drive a county or two over, it's like the mask mandate doesn't exist.
That said, I saw a noticeable difference in the amount of people maskless outside yesterday. I honestly did not expect a turnaround this quick, mostly because of the peer pressure you pointed out, but it shows that just about everyone is eager to ditch the masks once they know it's safe. It feels good to finally be going back to normal.
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We have a mask mandate on campus. So if you are inside a building, you have to be masked unless you are in your personal workspace with appropriate spacing.
So far today, I have had two people who have asked if we are lifting this mandate based on the announcement yesterday. And they are people who took Covid quite seriously and are vaxxed up.
People are weary. Yesterday's message I think felt quite liberating for many.
This is a good post. I no longer feel ANY compulsion to wear a mask. Yet I will do it out of respect for people in businesses that require it.
And yes, I feel totally liberated. I was just at a Stein's store - outdoors area - and did not wear a mask. Probably 75% of people WERE still wearing them. I didn't notice one single person looking at me like I was doing something wrong.
Happy days are returning. While Biden deserves a lot of credit for the logistics of getting us to this point, it is the American people (the majority, anyways) who made this happen.
It's often hard to feel that way with everything that's happening, but it is a great sign for our future.
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LOL, too difficult to acknowledge President Trump's role in getting the vaccine developed, into production, and ready for American arms by December 2020. Shame on you, aina?
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LOL, too difficult to acknowledge President Trump's role in getting the vaccine developed, into production, and ready for American arms by December 2020. Shame on you, aina?
He certainly deserves some credit. Though it would be a lot better if he publicly took the vaccine and promoted taking it as much as he promotes other concepts.
Imagine if he went on Tucker Carlson and said Take the Vaccine. Imagine if he told Ron Johnson to shut up.
He might just guarantee his W in 2024.
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The Lens,
All that might have been a good idea, but it does not take away Trump's contribution to the vaccine. I really struggle with folks being unable to acknowledge anything good from the right without having a criticism or disclaimer.
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The Lens,
All that might have been a good idea, but it does not take away Trump's contribution to the vaccine. I really struggle with folks being unable to acknowledge anything good from the right without having a criticism or disclaimer.
First, I have to laugh at underlined being said to me, as I have been a card carrying GOPer my whole life.
Second, Operation Warp Speed was amazing but it wasn't ground breaking. Pfizer & Germany’s BioNTech beat Warp Speed to market, the US wasn't the first to receive vaccines and nearly a dozen other vaccines have been developed. Essentially Trump kept pace with the rest of the world. Feels kinda like the Wojo era, meh.
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Interesting how the vaccine was announced by the drug companies right after Nov. 3, hey?
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Interesting how the vaccine was announced by the drug companies right after Nov. 3, hey?
I'm not Aaron Rodgers, I don't traffic in conspiracy theories.
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Lens you might be about to follow in the footsteps of Liz Cheney if you don't get on board!
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Lens you might be about to follow in the footsteps of Liz Cheney if you don't get on board!
I'm definitely Team Liz. Or put another way, I'm homeless.
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Interesting how the vaccine was announced by the drug companies right after Nov. 3, hey?
Wouldn't have mattered if he took it more seriously from the beginning.
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As a fellow PNW resident, people back in the midwest are shocked when I've told them that most people wear masks walking down the sidewalk out here. Even if you drive a county or two over, it's like the mask mandate doesn't exist.
That said, I saw a noticeable difference in the amount of people maskless outside yesterday. I honestly did not expect a turnaround this quick, mostly because of the peer pressure you pointed out, but it shows that just about everyone is eager to ditch the masks once they know it's safe. It feels good to finally be going back to normal.
I was running one evening (downtown, which is even more dead at night than normal) and not wearing a mask. This woman walked in the direction I was running and started yelling at me for not wearing a mask. What amused me is she pulled down her mask to do it.
One response to how people are responding to mask mandates I've seen is "I'm going to wear a mask because I don't want to be looked as a Trump supporter." There's some hardcore virtue signaling. But them it does hit on the articles I posted elsewhere about some who "can't quit the pandemic" due to partisan beliefs.
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4ever has it nailed, we’ve come a long way in a year. This is the one year anniversary of “if we didn’t do testing we would have very few cases”.
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The Lens
I used the term folks, as in more than one folk, and was making a general statement on the topic. That said, I will take your word for being a GOP lifer.
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25 minutes at my local Meijer. Total of 7 people without masks. Place was packed, too.
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This by the way is great news on the science side of this decision. It’s a Twitter exchange but Dr Topol reads a ton of research.
https://twitter.com/erictopol/status/1393200730912157702?s=21 (https://twitter.com/erictopol/status/1393200730912157702?s=21)
And here is the more in depth version
https://twitter.com/erictopol/status/1392915959770271744?s=21 (https://twitter.com/erictopol/status/1392915959770271744?s=21)
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4ever has it nailed, we’ve come a long way in a year. This is the one year anniversary of “if we didn’t do testing we would have very few cases”.
Yep.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-says-coronavirus-testing-overratedclaims-fewer-cases-if-no-testing-2020-05-14
I wonder why people don't praise Trump for the role he played? It's just the liberal media!!!
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Yep.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-says-coronavirus-testing-overratedclaims-fewer-cases-if-no-testing-2020-05-14
I wonder why people don't praise Trump for the role he played? It's just the liberal media!!!
It’s crazy how much happened in those first two months. It all seems much more spread out when I think back on it.
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The Lens
I used the term folks, as in more than one folk, and was making a general statement on the topic. That said, I will take your word for being a GOP lifer.
No worries, I was more just amused at where I have landed in this political world nowadays...never thought I'd be where I am.
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No worries, I was more just amused at where I have landed in this political world nowadays...never thought I'd be where I am.
I have a few friends who have worked for the GOP for decades who feel homeless. They want nothing to do with the Trump GOP but also worry about the far left trying to take over the Democratic Party. Our political dialogue has moved to the fringes with no room for compromise, let alone cooperation with the other party. Even in the COVID and mask debates, politics and partisanship are more important to many on both sides than science.
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LOL, too difficult to acknowledge President Trump's role in getting the vaccine developed, into production, and ready for American arms by December 2020. Shame on you, aina?
Again, it was one of the very few times his priorities (getting re-elected) aligned with doing what is right for the American people. So good on him for doing what was in his best interest I guess?
And as we saw, when he didn't get re-elected, he didn't give a sh!t about the vaccine, getting his produced, distributed, or into arms.
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LOL, too difficult to acknowledge President Trump's role in getting the vaccine developed, into production, and ready for American arms by December 2020. Shame on you, aina?
I gladly acknowledge those responsible.
1. President Bush
2. President Obama
3 Joe Biden - logistics and moral support
599 trump - when you openly and actively takes steps that killed 100,000s of people, credit should not be due.
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Nursing home around the corner. One unvaccinated staffer. Gave it to 9 other vaccinated people, staff and patients. Unvaccinated staffer is symptomatic and in the hospital. Other 9 are all positive but asymptomatic.
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?-(
Nursing home around the corner. One unvaccinated staffer. Gave it to 9 other vaccinated people, staff and patients. Unvaccinated staffer is symptomatic and in the hospital. Other 9 are all positive but asymptomatic.
Interesting. The real question is can the asymptomatic spread the virus? The answer hasn’t been no...but rarely. That is why vaccinated close contacts aren’t usually subject to testing unless symptomatic.
EDIT: Because tests would show if they have even a small amount. But perhaps not enough to get sick or spread.
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Nursing home around the corner. One unvaccinated staffer. Gave it to 9 other vaccinated people, staff and patients. Unvaccinated staffer is symptomatic and in the hospital. Other 9 are all positive but asymptomatic.
That seems like an awful high number (depending on the size of the facility). Were all of those infected a full 2 weeks past their 2nd shot?
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So I am told.
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I have a few friends who have worked for the GOP for decades who feel homeless. They want nothing to do with the Trump GOP but also worry about the far left trying to take over the Democratic Party. Our political dialogue has moved to the fringes with no room for compromise, let alone cooperation with the other party. Even in the COVID and mask debates, politics and partisanship are more important to many on both sides than science.
In hindsight, is FDR considered "far left"?
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In hindsight, is FDR considered "far left"?
Economically, for sure. He was fairly intrigued by and supportive of fascist economics (though obviously not the dictators) But he certainly lacked a lot of the progressive traits socially, he was pretty abysmal on racial issues. He also had a bit of a pro war reputation.
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I have a few friends who have worked for the GOP for decades who feel homeless. They want nothing to do with the Trump GOP but also worry about the far left trying to take over the Democratic Party. Our political dialogue has moved to the fringes with no room for compromise, let alone cooperation with the other party. Even in the COVID and mask debates, politics and partisanship are more important to many on both sides than science.
It’s really kinda funny. At least ironic funny. Dems have tried for decades and decades to defeat conservatism without success.
trump did it successfully in 4 years.
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What's the science behind CDC's decision to say fully vaccinated people don't need masks?
A fresh batch of data from a big study of health care workers across the country helped prompt the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to say fully vaccinated people can go without masks in most circumstances, the agency said Friday.
The study found that real-life use of the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines provided 94% protection for the front-line workers immunized at the beginning of the vaccine rollout. A single dose provided 82% protection, the CDC-led team reported in the agency's weekly report, the MMWR.
It was the findings from the new study, on top of earlier studies, that pushed CDC to decide to loosen its advice on who needs to wear a mask and when, CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said.
"This report provided the most compelling information to date that COVID-19 vaccines were performing as expected in the real world," Walensky said in a statement Friday.
Yah science!
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Economically, for sure. He was fairly intrigued by and supportive of fascist economics (though obviously not the dictators) But he certainly lacked a lot of the progressive traits socially, he was pretty abysmal on racial issues. He also had a bit of a pro war reputation.
We would have entered WWII far sooner if it had been up to FDR. Instead, ITV was the GOP that was anti war (Ford and Prescott Bush had business interests in Germany they had to protect).
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We went out with another couple to our favorite little pub for burgers and beers for the first time in 15 months. Probably ate and drank a little too much.
It was awesome.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/nct4ck/vaccinated/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
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1.3 mile walk to return an Amazon package. I counted 54 people I passed on the street 47 wearing masks. Most younger than me. It sunny, a little breezy, and 73 right now. It’s going to be interesting to see how hostile people get over masks. I guess there’s a limit to “Science is real.”
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1.3 mile walk to return an Amazon package. I counted 54 people I passed on the street 47 wearing masks. Most younger than me. It sunny, a little breezy, and 73 right now. It’s going to be interesting to see how hostile people get over masks. I guess there’s a limit to “Science is real.”
Were any of them hostile?
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1.3 mile walk to return an Amazon package. I counted 54 people I passed on the street 47 wearing masks. Most younger than me. It sunny, a little breezy, and 73 right now. It’s going to be interesting to see how hostile people get over masks. I guess there’s a limit to “Science is real.”
This is my concern, and quite frankly, I think what the CDC did was premature from a social science perspective. No idea about the epidemiological science. But now unmasked individuals are either those that are vaccinated and following this guidance, or those with no real respect for others who aren't, but can use this as cover. Businesses already loosening and using the honor system, which I'm sure won't get abused ::)
In general, I'm not a fan of letting people who don't do the right thing reap the benefits of society reopening, but this gives air cover to exactly those people. I see no way that this increases vaccinations unless it's motivation to the vaccine hesitant - antivaxxers are obviously a lost cause in more ways than one.
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Hey?
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1.3 mile walk to return an Amazon package. I counted 54 people I passed on the street 47 wearing masks. Most younger than me. It sunny, a little breezy, and 73 right now. It’s going to be interesting to see how hostile people get over masks. I guess there’s a limit to “Science is real.”
Yup. We learned that all through 2020 when people ignored the science.
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1.3 mile walk to return an Amazon package. I counted 54 people I passed on the street 47 wearing masks. Most younger than me. It sunny, a little breezy, and 73 right now. It’s going to be interesting to see how hostile people get over masks. I guess there’s a limit to “Science is real.”
May I ask where you live if you don't mind?
Edit: Just read an earlier post indicating that you live in the PNW.
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And the CDC just eliminated all testing requirements for all vaccinated cruise ship passengers. In light of their new guidance, this makes perfect sense to me. For all intents and purposes, the fully vaccinated are getting all restrictions lifted with a few notable exceptions. I'd expect cruising to resume in July in a limited fashion. I have no doubt this policy shift is a conscious effort to encourage more folks to vaccinate. I have my own theory as to the timing but won't go into that here.
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And the CDC just eliminated all testing requirements for all vaccinated cruise ship passengers. In light of their new guidance, this makes perfect sense to me. For all intents and purposes, the fully vaccinated are getting all restrictions lifted with a few notable exceptions. I'd expect cruising to resume in July in a limited fashion. I have no doubt this policy shift is a conscious effort to encourage more folks to vaccinate. I have my own theory as to the timing but won't go into that here.
How are the cruise lines to know which passengers are vaccinated?
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How are the cruise lines to know which passengers are vaccinated?
if they ain't wearing a mask, they must be vaccinated, eyn'a?
if one wants the vaccine, go get it! if you are vaccinated, who cares who's wearing the mask and who's not?
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How are the cruise lines to know which passengers are vaccinated?
I would hope a vaccine passport.
Hawaii already has said they will require visitors to have one.
Seems like common sense and smart policy.
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I would hope a vaccine passport.
Hawaii already has said they will require visitors to have one.
Seems like common sense and smart policy.
i don't know if this is "click-bait", but slippery slope man! you do realize that african americans are among the least vaccinated, right? slippery slope
"The CDC reports demographic characteristics, including race/ethnicity, of people receiving COVID-19 vaccinations at the national level. As of May 11, 2021, CDC reported that race/ethnicity was known for just over half (55%) of people who had received at least one dose of the vaccine. Among this group, nearly two thirds were White (63%), 13% were Hispanic, 9% were Black, 6% were Asian, 1% were American Indian or Alaska Native, and <1% were Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander, while 8% reported multiple or other race. However, to date, CDC is not providing state-level demographic data for people vaccinated."
https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/
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And the CDC just eliminated all testing requirements for all vaccinated cruise ship passengers. In light of their new guidance, this makes perfect sense to me. For all intents and purposes, the fully vaccinated are getting all restrictions lifted with a few notable exceptions. I'd expect cruising to resume in July in a limited fashion. I have no doubt this policy shift is a conscious effort to encourage more folks to vaccinate. I have my own theory as to the timing but won't go into that here.
Hards' folks are already booked.
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if one wants the vaccine, go get it! if you are vaccinated, who cares who's wearing the mask and who's not?
I identify as vaccinated.
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I identify as vaccinated.
OK, that was funny!
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I would hope a vaccine passport.
Hawaii already has said they will require visitors to have one.
Seems like common sense and smart policy.
[/quote
Nah, keep government out of it. Fear and power, that's how Nazi Germany came to be, aina?
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Nah, keep government out of it. Fear and power, that's how Nazi Germany came to be, aina?
Lol. No.
Rocket and you have a crapty understanding of history.
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Lol. No.
Rocket and you have a crapty understanding of history.
Drivers Licenses, man! Just like Nazi Germany!
Also all the schools that require vaccination records prior to enrolling a kid. Nazi Germany all over again!
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Lol. No.
Rocket and you have a crapty understanding of history.
don't remember da gubmint axking...no mandating AIDS passports
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How are the cruise lines to know which passengers are vaccinated?
I suspect all cruise lines will initially be 'vaccinated only'. The hurdles the CDC has established for unvaxxed are likely too onerous for the lines to willingly accept. I'd guess that cruisers will be bringing their vax card and signing an affidavit.
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i don't know if this is "click-bait", but slippery slope man! you do realize that african americans are among the least vaccinated, right? slippery slope
you're not worth it
Nah, keep government out of it. Fear and power, that's how Nazi Germany came to be, aina?
I'd guess you'd know. The guy you just spent 4 years worshiping wanted to be der Führer, nu?
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May I ask where you live if you don't mind?
Edit: Just read an earlier post indicating that you live in the PNW.
To be specific, Portland. It was when I was near downtown today
I rode 24 miles this afternoon. Some with masks running or biking but more without. Fewer than I’d seen in the past.
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Were any of them hostile?
I had earbuds in so if they were I didn’t hear it. I expect it more in situations where people are stationary (lines, street corners). Outdoor stadiums will be interesting. The owner of the Portland Timbers said masks will no longer be required and some of the leaders of the fan group are angry at him for doing it,
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you're not worth it
I'd guess you'd know. The guy you just spent 4 years worshiping wanted to be der Führer, nu?
in other words, you didn't know that. fair enough.
now how are you going to explain the racist part about needing a "vaccine passport" to go places, not wear a mask and not social distance. you know, do not be "super spreaders"?
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you're not worth it
I'd guess you'd know. The guy you just spent 4 years worshiping wanted to be der Führer, nu?
Nads, you are 100% correct. I do know. Most y'all only read what is written in history books, aina?
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don't remember da gubmint axking...no mandating AIDS passports
^^^^^
This "health care professional" doesn't understand the key difference between AIDS and Covid.
You do realize that government agencies already require proof of certain vaccinations right? This isn't new.
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in other words, you didn't know that. fair enough.
now how are you going to explain the racist part about needing a "vaccine passport" to go places, not wear a mask and not social distance. you know, do not be "super spreaders"?
Your white victimhood knows no bounds.
And you know shockingly little about medical science.
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I think its cute that rocket supposedly cares about racism.
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I think its cute that rocket supposedly cares about racism.
Getting vaccinations into the arms of Black people has been elusive in the Charlotte area, as in many other areas.
One of our county commissioners told the Charlotte Observer that overcoming the gap in vaccination rates may require an “over-correction in the way we are distributing and allocating the vaccine."
Of course, as soon as such a program is enacted, rocket and his ilk will be decrying "affirmative action for immunizations."
He doesn't give a about racism, as he has shown in dozens (maybe hundreds) of comments. He wants to use Black people as pawns in his white-victimhood "gotcha" game. It's so obvious and cynical.
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you guys look cute together-your turn sully
fyi sully, us healthcare professionals had to put our lives and consequentially, that of our families on the line. especially with the aids crisis of late 80's. our careful attention to detail also prevented the spread to the general public and people like you and 82 as well...you're welcome
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We get it. You guys don't like each other.
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We get it. You guys don't like each other.
I don't know him well enough to dislike or like him, glow. What I don't like is that somebody with a history of making racist statements on this site is suddenly pretending to give a sh!t about Black people because it became convenient for him to do so. That should be called out, not ignored.
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We get it. You guys don't like each other.
Sorry for participating in a discussion. If it bothers you so much, maybe you can leave again.
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Mass this morning. About 200 in attendance. 1 person started mass without a mask. At the start of the homily, the priest addressed the mask issue and said that within appropriate guidelines, the vaccinated could remove their masks. But it was ok to leave it on in deference to others. Two people removed their masks.
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i don't know if this is "click-bait", but slippery slope man! you do realize that african americans are among the least vaccinated, right? slippery slope
"The CDC reports demographic characteristics, including race/ethnicity, of people receiving COVID-19 vaccinations at the national level. As of May 11, 2021, CDC reported that race/ethnicity was known for just over half (55%) of people who had received at least one dose of the vaccine. Among this group, nearly two thirds were White (63%), 13% were Hispanic, 9% were Black, 6% were Asian, 1% were American Indian or Alaska Native, and <1% were Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander, while 8% reported multiple or other race. However, to date, CDC is not providing state-level demographic data for people vaccinated."
https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/
My wife and I got our first shot on Friday, May 14. We were required to fill out the consent which asked for demographic information which was optional. So I would take the demographic data collected by the CDC with again grain of salt as it is voluntary. The other curious thing is we were all told that the COVID shots are free and if that is so why do they ask for your insurance info? Are they charging your insurance carrier and still collecting from the government COVID relief packages passed under TRUMP and BIDEN? I guess when you can double dip you double dip.
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My only qualm with suspending masks is that there are a bunch of folks out there who aren't two weeks out from their second shot, through no real fault or delay of their own. Its been a wild month to go from vaccine hunting to oversupply, but the timeline of first shot to 3-4 week wait to second shot to two weeks until fully vaxxed up means that it takes about 6 weeks for someone to make their first appt to being good to go. Wisconsin first opened vaccines to everyone April 5 which is almost exactly 6 weeks tomorrow.
You know that the 30%-40% of people who are never going to get a vaccine are ditching their mask the first chance they get, so this just seems to put soon-to-be vaxxed people into contact with never-vaxxers a couple weeks early. Then again, I get that after a first shot there is probably enough immunity built up for most that this tight timeline probably won't move the needle on total cases.
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I'd argue Burrow that the timing had less to do with 'science' than it did with 'polling'. Absolutely nothing changed with the science. In fact the science with respect to the fully vaccinated had been pretty well established for some time.
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muwarrior69, there is an administration fee that providers can charge your insurance for. If a person doesn’t have insurance then it is paid by the government. It is a separate charge from the vaccine itself. But it is no cost to the person receiving the shot.
‘Free’ is of course a misnomer, as that only means there is no out of pocket cost to the consumer, not that we aren’t paying for it through our taxes.
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I'd argue Burrow that the timing had less to do with 'science' than it did with 'polling'. Absolutely nothing changed with the science. In fact the science with respect to the fully vaccinated had been pretty well established for some time.
Maybe. I’d gather it has more to do with a calculated risk to get to the target of getting 70%+ vaccinated. Even in areas of high vaccination rates we are hitting a wall. This gives an incentive. Also the levels of spread right now make it lower risk.
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The other curious thing is we were all told that the COVID shots are free and if that is so why do they ask for your insurance info? Are they charging your insurance carrier and still collecting from the government COVID relief packages passed under TRUMP and BIDEN? I guess when you can double dip you double dip.
Neither my wife nor I nor any friends to whom I have spoken had to show an insurance card or give any insurance info at all. Didn't even have to show a driver's license. The mobile clinic I went to, run by our large hospital system, was all about getting jabs in arms.
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My wife and I went to a large regional shot site. No insurance info requested.
My son at Walgreen's required insurance information. I doubt I will get a bill.
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You’re not going to get a bill.
As I said it’s a question of who pays the administrative fee, your insurance company or the government. But not you.
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Costco. 97% mask wearing.
It will be a fascinating character study in the coming days and weeks.
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My wife and I went to a large regional shot site. No insurance info requested.
My son at Walgreen's required insurance information. I doubt I will get a bill.
We did a huge drive through vaccination site. They took our insurance cards each time.
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Went to the Milwaukee Zoo yesterday. At least per their website, their mask policy of wearing a mask at all times still is in effect. Previous times we’ve gone, I’d say 95-100% were in masks. This time it was probably 55-60%.
It’s not a big deal because it’s outdoors mostly, but feels like masks are a thing of the past for many.
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Neither my wife nor I nor any friends to whom I have spoken had to show an insurance card or give any insurance info at all. Didn't even have to show a driver's license. The mobile clinic I went to, run by our large hospital system, was all about getting jabs in arms.
You didn't have to show a driver's license? I assume you got a vaccination card...how did they know who you were to issue the card?
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You didn't have to show a driver's license? I assume you got a vaccination card...how did they know who you were to issue the card?
They handed me a very short form to fill out, and told me to write my name on the top of my vaccination card. That was it.
I guess they believed who I said I was.
Horrors.
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Neither my wife nor I nor any friends to whom I have spoken had to show an insurance card or give any insurance info at all. Didn't even have to show a driver's license. The mobile clinic I went to, run by our large hospital system, was all about getting jabs in arms.
While this is true, these large hospital systems are likely making a decent chunk of money doing this. They are billing either the insurance company or the US government administration fees for giving the vaccine.
My insurance company was billed $185 for an "administration fee" despite the vaccines being free to the hospitals.
Given that most of these vaccine clinics are being staffed by volunteers, that is a pretty hefty profit for the large hospital systems. We needed this to be done, and if that is the cost fine, but the hospital systems are not doing this altruistically, getting jabs in arms is a guaranteed way to fill the coffers too.
Some hospitals may be finding the dealing with the insurance companies is not worth the likely higher charge they can bill them, and instead simply take the administration fee from the government.
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While this is true, these large hospital systems are likely making a decent chunk of money doing this. They are billing either the insurance company or the US government administration fees for giving the vaccine.
My insurance company was billed $185 for an "administration fee" despite the vaccines being free to the hospitals.
Given that most of these vaccine clinics are being staffed by volunteers, that is a pretty hefty profit for the large hospital systems. We needed this to be done, and if that is the cost fine, but the hospital systems are not doing this altruistically, getting jabs in arms is a guaranteed way to fill the coffers too.
Some hospitals may be finding the dealing with the insurance companies is not worth the likely higher charge they can bill them, and instead simply take the administration fee from the government.
Would you had to pay if you did not meet your deductible?
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$185 is pretty outrageous, that’s the highest I’ve seen in the Vaccine Hunters group by far.
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While this is true, these large hospital systems are likely making a decent chunk of money doing this. They are billing either the insurance company or the US government administration fees for giving the vaccine.
My insurance company was billed $185 for an "administration fee" despite the vaccines being free to the hospitals.
Given that most of these vaccine clinics are being staffed by volunteers, that is a pretty hefty profit for the large hospital systems. We needed this to be done, and if that is the cost fine, but the hospital systems are not doing this altruistically, getting jabs in arms is a guaranteed way to fill the coffers too.
Some hospitals may be finding the dealing with the insurance companies is not worth the likely higher charge they can bill them, and instead simply take the administration fee from the government.
Thanks for the info.
Of course, I neither said nor suggested anything different.
My wife's hospital group, the largest in the southeast, has given "heroes" several bonuses since the start of COVID-19, so hopefully at least some of these profits are making their way into the bank accounts of employees below management level.
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Thanks for the info.
Of course, I neither said nor suggested anything different.
My wife's hospital group, the largest in the southeast, has given "heroes" several bonuses since the start of COVID-19, so hopefully at least some of these profits are making their way into the bank accounts of employees below management level.
I honestly didn't know how much they charge insurance until I saw the explanation of benefits. Hospital administration is far far far from the science realm I get to play in.
Very glad that your wife's hospital group has been doing the right thing. Sadly, I've heard of some hospitals that forced their employees to take pay cuts early on.
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one positive out here after the mask announcement was big lines to get vaccinated over the weekend. President Biden and others don't have the power to require people to wear masks if they aren't vaccinated but the comment may have lit a fire under people to do it.
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Would you had to pay if you did not meet your deductible?
No, it would have been covered. My employer guaranteed that everything COVID related is 100% covered, vaccines, testing, and medical care.
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Deductibles and copays aren’t part of the equation for the Covid vaccine, the person getting it doesn’t pay.
Some clinics were found to be charging patients for ‘other services’ ie you must have an exam first, but that hit the press and hopefully people know by now that you do not need a medical exam first.
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My health club isn’t requiring masks (although there are still dumb city guidelines)... barely anyone is wearing one. Steam room, sauna, hot tub... all reopened. Bar is restocked as well. Great to see.
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My health club isn’t requiring masks (although there are still dumb city guidelines)... barely anyone is wearing one. Steam room, sauna, hot tub... all reopened. Bar is restocked as well. Great to see.
#LastDays
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Dane Co has decided that the science will kick in June 1st, but not until then.
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My health club isn’t requiring masks (although there are still dumb city guidelines)... barely anyone is wearing one. Steam room, sauna, hot tub... all reopened. Bar is restocked as well. Great to see.
One of my old studios is no longer requiring them upon proof of vaccination. Running on a treadmill at a full spring while inhaling a mask was no fun. My wife's yoga studio is still requiring them, as is the one down the street.
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One of my old studios is no longer requiring them upon proof of vaccination. Running on a treadmill at a full spring while inhaling a mask was no fun. My wife's yoga studio is still requiring them, as is the one down the street.
What's considered proof?
Are you okay with being required to provide proof?
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The YMCA had gone to masks being recommended but not required when the mask mandate was overturned in Wisconsin. I wear one when I'm heading in and out but don't wear one while working out. There aren't many people still wearing masks there though.
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I went to Costco today, my first time in a big-box retail outlet since masks stopped being required. All employees still wore them, and I’d estimate that about half the customers did, too.
I wore mine; I don’t mind when I’m not being active, and I figured it wouldn’t hurt. I didn’t wear it the night before when I umpired a youth baseball game.
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What's considered proof?
Are you okay with being required to provide proof?
Showing your card. We keep a photo on our phones.
And I am ok with it. I had to provide proof of vaccination to go to MU and needed to go to the health center for updated shots before starting grad school.
One interesting development from the State of Oregon in considering restaurants to have separate vaccinated and non-vaccinated sections.
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Showing your card. We keep a photo on our phones.
And I am ok with it. I had to provide proof of vaccination to go to MU and needed to go to the health center for updated shots before starting grad school.
One interesting development from the State of Oregon in considering restaurants to have separate vaccinated and non-vaccinated sections.
Oregon has lots of great ideas. Is Portland’s mayor still touting the takeover of part of her city as a “Summer (and a Fall, Winter and Spring) of Love”?
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These things dead like vaccine passports and “unvaccinated sections” of restaurants all sound good, but none of it will be a reality affecting our daily lives come fall IMO.
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One of my old studios is no longer requiring them upon proof of vaccination. Running on a treadmill at a full spring while inhaling a mask was no fun. My wife's yoga studio is still requiring them, as is the one down the street.
My gym in the Milwaukee burbs just announced "mask optional" but kind of hinted at respect and courtesy. But interestingly, it was just posted on their website but not an email blast per usual. When I was there yesterday morning, it was pretty much masked business as usual, save for treadmills (but cardio has been maskless for a few months).
My finacee goes to a pilates studio that is mask optional, but Id say 75-80% of classes are still specifically noted and marked as "masked"
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Oregon has lots of great ideas. Is Portland’s mayor still touting the takeover of part of her city as a “Summer (and a Fall, Winter and Spring) of Love”?
Oregon's not the only place with great ideas, Lenny. Is the former "law-and-order" president still saying that the Capitol rioters actually were hugging and kissing cops -- 100+ of whom were injured, many seriously? Are "law-and-order" GOP congresspeople like Andrew Clyde still saying 1/6/21 was like a peaceful day of tourism at the Capitol? (Actually, we know they are; Clyde said this only a couple days ago -- even though photos have surfaced of a terrified Clyde barricading the doors to the chambers.)
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Oregon has lots of great ideas. Is Portland’s mayor still touting the takeover of part of her city as a “Summer (and a Fall, Winter and Spring) of Love”?
You're confusing Portland with Seattle, and also a problem Seattle took care of. But never let facts get in the way of a good story.
But hey, guys, how about the CDC and not just your political opinions, eh?
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Oregon has lots of great ideas. Is Portland’s mayor still touting the takeover of part of her city as a “Summer (and a Fall, Winter and Spring) of Love”?
That wasn't our Mayor (he's a spineless idiot but better than the alternatives, which is f'ing scary to think about). It was Seattle's. Our Mayor, instead of calling out the police when his condo building was attacked and set on fire, moved.
On a more germane topic, studies are showing that infection and transmission of COVID if you are fully vaccinated is extremely low. "Dr. Amesh A. Adalja, a senior scholar at The Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, told Health magazine “that if you are fully vaccinated, you are virtually unable to be infected with the virus or serve as a vector of spread.”
https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/2021/05/can-a-vaccinated-person-still-spread-covid-19-studies-indicate-its-very-unlikely.html?utm_campaign=theoregonian_sf&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR1zJU6EGKC7DcjDhRBoiYFwUJqzU4ecaF_me6epSvDGwHAp50tI6nTnRI8
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Nursing home around the corner. One unvaccinated staffer. Gave it to 9 other vaccinated people, staff and patients. Unvaccinated staffer is symptomatic and in the hospital. Other 9 are all positive but asymptomatic.
OK to follow this up, I just read this on the New York Yankees outbreak.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/05/what-really-happened-with-that-weird-yankees-covid-outbreak.html
"I’ve always said that it is very unlikely that these vaccines will create fully sterilizing immunity. Sterilizing immunity is the kind of immunity where, if you get exposed and the virus lands in your respiratory tract, it will be neutralized (or killed) immediately. It will not have a chance to replicate. On the other hand, you can have very highly protective vaccines that are not fully sterilizing — vaccines that prevent you from illness, especially severe illness, but may still allow the virus to grow.
...
This is a technology that can catch just ten molecules of virus. But this is a virus that when it is contagious, there are billions of molecules. So we have to be very careful about how we interpret PCR results. Just because the virus can grow a bit — and be detected on a PCR test — does not mean we are stuck in the woods as far as herd immunity goes.A vaccine that doesn’t create sterilizing immunity can still greatly limit virus growth, perhaps enough to massively limit transmission. This is likely the case with the mRNA vaccines at least, given the large reductions in cases among kids in hospitals as a result of the adults getting vaccinated. Clearly transmission declined significantly enough to elicit some level of herd effects on the kids."
So in other words....
1. Testing those who are considered "close contacts" is going to yield positive results, but those results very likely are irrelevant because it is doubtful it will replicate enough to be spread.
and 2. Randomly testing vaccinated people is going to lead to similar results.
Therefore we should stop testing asymptomatic people who are vaccinated.
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Therefore we should stop testing asymptomatic people who are vaccinated.
???
Except to help scientists understand virus/variant transmission amongst vaccinated people. I understand your point that there's not much need (right now)- but I believe the idea is that it's not impossible for a variant "breakthrough" that vaccinated people could transmit. So, until we're truly "done" with this thing, testing, testing, testing (and analyzing) are important.
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???
Except to help scientists understand virus/variant transmission amongst vaccinated people. I understand your point that there's not much need (right now)- but I believe the idea is that it's not impossible for a variant "breakthrough" that vaccinated people could transmit. So, until we're truly "done" with this thing, testing, testing, testing (and analyzing) are important.
If a variant is truly a "breakthrough" it would cause a spike in vaccinated people becoming symptomatic. But until that actually happens, I am not sure how testing a bunch of people who aren't sick is going to help any. If those people are just carrying variants, but not sick from them or spreading them...what's the point?
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If a variant is truly a "breakthrough" it would cause a spike in vaccinated people becoming symptomatic. But until that actually happens, I am not sure how testing a bunch of people who aren't sick is going to help any. If those people are just carrying variants, but not sick from them or spreading them...what's the point?
Certainly if community spread keeps dropping like it has, there is not much point - and ideally we'll get there soon. But until we get to very minimal spread, it's pretty much SOP in a pandemic to test asymptomatic to understand spread, and take steps to reduce transmission.
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Certainly if community spread keeps dropping like it has, there is not much point - and ideally we'll get there soon. But until we get to very minimal spread, it's pretty much SOP in a pandemic to test asymptomatic to understand spread, and take steps to reduce transmission.
But if the vaccinated are asymptomatic, they aren't spreading it. Which is why the mask recommendations have been lifted right?
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I would jump onto the Michael Mina soapbox if I were the CDC or one of these organizations that continue to test to keep the work environment safe. Ditch the PCR and instead to an antigen/quick test to see if people are infectious. Seems like a better surveillance method.
Learning a bunch of Yankees have a trace amount of virus is interesting and makes good news for a few days, but isn't very useful.
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But if the vaccinated are asymptomatic, they aren't spreading it. Which is why the mask recommendations have been lifted right?
1) Unlikely to spread it.
2) I thought we were talking about testing, and your contention that testing asymptomatic should be immediately stopped. Not about masks.
Again, ideally it's all moot in anther few weeks. I just don't think the testing is "hurting" anything to stop the spread of the virus, or has any effect on most people's lives. It's mostly regular testing in healthcare or work settings (nursing home, MLB) which is catching these asymptomatic. And those data points are useful for scientists. Now, to Frenns point, the media running with the info is only for sensationalism.
So perhaps you just object to hearing about asymptomatic test results :)
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BTW, our public health guidelines on campus for next year look like they are going to be... Do everything like you did this year....test and isolate the symptomatic, contact trace those they came in contact with, but the vaccinated are exempt from testing and quarantine (unless symptomatic) AND are exempt from surveillance testing as well.
Right now we are leaning against mandating vaccines, but making it very clear that many of the rules and regulations from 2020-21 will still be in place next year if you aren't vaccinated. (Including indoor masking and distancing.)
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BTW, our public health guidelines on campus for next year look like they are going to be... Do everything like you did this year....test and isolate the symptomatic, contact trace those they came in contact with, but the vaccinated are exempt from testing and quarantine (unless symptomatic) AND are exempt from surveillance testing as well.
Right now we are leaning against mandating vaccines, but making it very clear that many of the rules and regulations from 2020-21 will still be in place next year if you aren't vaccinated. (Including indoor masking and distancing.)
What do you think about Lawrence U going with the vaxx mandate? Always tough to be first but I thought maybe others would follow.
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What do you think about Lawrence U going with the vaxx mandate? Always tough to be first but I thought maybe others would follow.
We will see. Lawrence is more "liberal," draws from a more diverse geographic profile, and has the endowment to weather any students who decide to head elsewhere because of this more than most private schools in Wisconsin. It absolutely is not surprising that they were the first to make this decision.
To me it seems a little early. I would guess you won't see other schools coming to conclusions about this for another few weeks.
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We will see. Lawrence is more "liberal," draws from a more diverse geographic profile, and has the endowment to weather any students who decide to head elsewhere because of this more than most private schools in Wisconsin. It absolutely is not surprising that they were the first to make this decision.
To me it seems a little early. I would guess you won't see other schools coming to conclusions about this for another few weeks.
Here's Purdue's approach (at least as of last week):
In Year Two of the Protect Purdue Pledge, students may choose either to:
1) Get fully vaccinated and successfully submit valid documentation before coming to campus this fall. (Students who choose to vaccinate upon arrival to campus may utilize our onsite clinic at no charge.) OR
2) Participate in frequent, mandatory surveillance testing.
Students who provide valid documentation of full vaccination status against COVID-19 will be exempted from mandatory surveillance testing and may enjoy greater amounts of choice as it pertains to activities on campus. Random audits of submitted documentation will be performed to confirm vaccination status. Submitting falsified vaccine documentation will result in swift and severe disciplinary action, up to and including expulsion.
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My daughter, a Lawrence alum, was thrilled to see her alma mater take a leadership role.
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BTW, our public health guidelines on campus for next year look like they are going to be... Do everything like you did this year....test and isolate the symptomatic, contact trace those they came in contact with, but the vaccinated are exempt from testing and quarantine (unless symptomatic) AND are exempt from surveillance testing as well.
Right now we are leaning against mandating vaccines, but making it very clear that many of the rules and regulations from 2020-21 will still be in place next year if you aren't vaccinated. (Including indoor masking and distancing.)
"leaning against mandating vaccine" but get vaccinated or else...and here's your "sticker"
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If we had polio or measles outbreaks today and needed all Americans to get vaccinated to eradicate those horrible diseases, we’d be effed.
Freedom!
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"leaning against mandating vaccine" but get vaccinated or else...and here's your "sticker"
Right. Because people who aren't vaccinated can get sick and spread the disease. This is pretty much what every school is going to do because no school wants to be the center of an outbreak and many are going to be mandated to operate this way from local health departments.
You do realize that schools already mandate certain vaccines right? They likely did when your children attended them. And if they choose to not be vaccinated for whatever reason, they aren't guaranteed to finish the semester, get refunds, etc.
What schools are doing are nothing new. What's new is that this vaccine has been politicized and brainless lapdogs like yourself just lap it up.
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I'm really having difficulty wrapping my arms around a viewpoint that says one's 'free' not to get the vaccine (I happen to agree with that) but that private enterprises are not free to place restrictions or refuse to serve the unvaccinated. I said this once before somewhere else. Being unvaccinated isn't a protected class.
And on a separate note, I was appalled this morning to see a personal (fully vaccinated) friend attacked on FB by a couple 'so called' friends who lectured her when she dared to enter a big box retailer without wearing a mask (in full compliance with store policy) and posted a picture of the happy moment. Folks doing that to me would be out of my life immediately.
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Unvaccinated folks=live at your own risk.
For those of us who choose to believe the science...its over. Carry on like its March 9, 2020, hey?
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I'm really having difficulty wrapping my arms around a viewpoint that says one's 'free' not to get the vaccine (I happen to agree with that) but that private enterprises are not free to place restrictions or refuse to serve the unvaccinated. I said this once before somewhere else. Being unvaccinated isn't a protected class.
And on a separate note, I was appalled this morning to see a personal (fully vaccinated) friend attacked on FB by a couple 'so called' friends who lectured her when she dared to enter a big box retailer without wearing a mask (in full compliance with store policy) and posted a picture of the happy moment. Folks doing that to me would be out of my life immediately.
Agreed and agreed. The idea that fully vaccinated people are acting dangerously when they don't wear masks in situations when the store policy doesn't call for it, is just as silly and anti-science as they were likely accusing others of being a year ago.
I will happily put on a mask when a retailer requires it. I will not wear one when they do not.
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Agreed and agreed. The idea that fully vaccinated people are acting dangerously when they don't wear masks in situations when the store policy doesn't call for it, is just as silly and anti-science as they were likely accusing others of being a year ago.
I will happily put on a mask when a retailer requires it. I will not wear one when they do not.
And I will add Sultan that we're free to patronize establishments or not depending on their policy. I'll go back to the cruise industry for a moment. A cruise line might decide not to require vaccinations and then be obligated to follow very restrictive CDC guidelines like 'masks required on Lido deck'. Well, I won't be spending my $ there.
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Right. Because people who aren't vaccinated can get sick and spread the disease. This is pretty much what every school is going to do because no school wants to be the center of an outbreak and many are going to be mandated to operate this way from local health departments.
You do realize that schools already mandate certain vaccines right? They likely did when your children attended them. And if they choose to not be vaccinated for whatever reason, they aren't guaranteed to finish the semester, get refunds, etc.
What schools are doing are nothing new. What's new is that this vaccine has been politicized and brainless lapdogs like yourself just lap it up.
you are forgetting about those who have had and recovered from covid. have plasma antibodies or killer T-cells
science also says unvaccinated (not sure under what age) are more safe than a vaccinated 85 year old statistically speaking
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you are forgetting about those who have had and recovered from covid. have plasma antibodies or killer T-cells
science also says unvaccinated (not sure under what age) are more safe than a vaccinated 85 year old statistically speaking
Science also says that those who got Covid should be vaccinated.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/faq.html
"Yes, you should be vaccinated regardless of whether you already had COVID-19. That’s because experts do not yet know how long you are protected from getting sick again after recovering from COVID-19. Even if you have already recovered from COVID-19, it is possible—although rare—that you could be infected with the virus that causes COVID-19 again. Learn more about why getting vaccinated is a safer way to build protection than getting infected."
Science also says that the unvaccinated can spread the disease even if they are asymptomatic (which we have known for over a year now....but apparently needs to be explained again and again), but the 85 year old who is vaccinated isn't spreading the disease unless they are symptomatic.
For a guy who claims to know a lot about science, you really don't know a lot about science.
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If we had polio or measles outbreaks today and needed all Americans to get vaccinated to eradicate those horrible diseases, we’d be effed.
I think we'd be fine as long as it didn't get politicized...wait...yeah, you're right...we'd be effed.
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I'm really having difficulty wrapping my arms around a viewpoint that says one's 'free' not to get the vaccine (I happen to agree with that) but that private enterprises are not free to place restrictions or refuse to serve the unvaccinated. I said this once before somewhere else. Being unvaccinated isn't a protected class.
And on a separate note, I was appalled this morning to see a personal (fully vaccinated) friend attacked on FB by a couple 'so called' friends who lectured her when she dared to enter a big box retailer without wearing a mask (in full compliance with store policy) and posted a picture of the happy moment. Folks doing that to me would be out of my life immediately.
This is why I generally avoid social media. Friends and relatives become acquaintances. It's also turned a lot of people into narcissists, and given rise to the misinformation problem that plagues our society.
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This is why I generally avoid social media. Friends and relatives become acquaintances. It's also turned a lot of people into narcissists, and given rise to the misinformation problem that plagues our society.
It’s just the easiest and cleanest way for someone to flail at moral superiority. My younger sister has a friend that does big numbers in Tik Tok, not Charli D’Amelio numbers but enough to raise an eyebrow. So she’ll send them every so often in a group chat if one is particularly popular or funny. Multiple times she did a dance or video outside, not in a crowded venue, but a park or on the street, and the comments are FILLED with
“WHERE IS YOUR MASK?!”
“ITS A PANDEMIC BUT I GUESS LOOKING CUTE IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN WEARING A MASK TO SAVE LIVES”.
That sort of crap is everywhere, it’s pathetic
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Some folks just can't give up their security blanket. Believe the science, its real, aina?
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you are forgetting about those who have had and recovered from covid. have plasma antibodies or killer T-cells
science also says unvaccinated (not sure under what age) are more safe than a vaccinated 85 year old statistically speaking
Of course you ignored that fact that schools require certain vaccinations in order to enroll students and have done so for years without the right wing having tantrums about it. So tell us, how is it different now?
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Unvaccinated folks=live at your own risk.
For those of us who choose to believe the science...its over. Carry on like its March 9, 2020, hey?
Apparently, the stars and planets are aligned. We are in full agreement on this.
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This is why I generally avoid social media. Friends and relatives become acquaintances. It's also turned a lot of people into narcissists, and given rise to the misinformation problem that plagues our society.
You are a smart man, Hards. Social media is a pit of snakes. I don't do facebook. I don't do Instagram. I only have a Twitter account to read the tweets that are posted on Scoop.
If I want to know what a friend thinks, I call and ask or get together and talk. I have no use for the opinions (that I didn't ask for) of acquaintances about what I should do or think..
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You are a smart man, Hards. Social media is a pit of snakes. I don't do facebook. I don't do Instagram. I only have a Twitter account to read the tweets that are posted on Scoop.
If I want to know what a friend thinks, I call and ask or get together and talk. I have no use for the opinions (that I didn't ask for) of acquaintances about what I should do or think..
Facebook was a lot of fun in it's infancy. The fun has very much run its course.
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I only personally know two individuals who are refusing to get vaccinated. One is my assistant's husband. He is the son of Russian immigrants who is not getting it due to religious reasons (Russian Orthodox) and whose parents are anti-vax due to their experiences in the USSR. She got the vaccine though as it's required at our workplace starting in August. She's also trying to guilt him into getting it.
The other is one of my wife's old coworkers. Very libertarian, doesn't trust that the vaccine has been properly tested. He's also moving to Idaho in next month so it kind of makes sense he'd make that decision.
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I only personally know two individuals who are refusing to get vaccinated. One is my assistant's husband. He is the son of Russian immigrants who is not getting it due to religious reasons (Russian Orthodox) and whose parents are anti-vax due to their experiences in the USSR. She got the vaccine though as it's required at our workplace starting in August. She's also trying to guilt him into getting it.
The other is one of my wife's old coworkers. Very libertarian, doesn't trust that the vaccine has been properly tested. He's also moving to Idaho in next month so it kind of makes sense he'd make that decision.
Drives me insane. Laymen not understanding the difference between FDA emergency use and full approval. Meanwhile I have employees who want to 'keep their body natural' while cashing a pack of Marlboro's every day.
Certainly some people have tipped their hand as to their lack of intelligence.
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The other is one of my wife's old coworkers. Very libertarian, doesn't trust that the vaccine has been properly tested. He's also moving to Idaho in next month so it kind of makes sense he'd make that decision.
Did she used to work with Chico’s???
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Drives me insane. Laymen not understanding the difference between FDA emergency use and full approval. Meanwhile I have employees who want to 'keep their body natural' while cashing a pack of Marlboro's every day.
Certainly some people have tipped their hand as to their lack of intelligence.
agree one hundred percent. But welcome to modern, politicize everything America. Before the election you had people on the left saying they wouldn't trust a vaccine approved by "Trump's FDA" (Vice President Harris and Governor Cuomo said something along those lines). Now there are people on the right saying the same, except about approval by "Biden's FDA." This dude falls into the latter category.
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The other is one of my wife's old coworkers. Very libertarian, doesn't trust that the vaccine has been properly tested. He's also moving to Idaho in next month so it kind of makes sense he'd make that decision.
Must be hoarding and preparing for the zombie apocalypses while at it.
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Cubs president Jed Hoyer says he's "disappointed" his team isn't likely to reach the 85% vaccination threshold that leads to reduced COVID-19 regulations.
"It's disappointing to not be at 85% as a team," Hoyer said. "We've worked hard to try and convince or educate the people that have been reluctant. We're at a place right now -- I'm not going to give up hope we're going to get there -- my level of optimism is waning. It is disappointing."
About half the teams in MLB have reached the threshold and qualify for looser restrictions, such as the elimination of mask-wearing and the ability to use shared spaces in clubhouses, indoor and outdoor dining and many other everyday life activities.
Maybe it's just me, but I would be kinda pissed if I couldn't engage in normal activities just because a few guys refuse to get the vaccine. Be interesting to see if we have any intra-team conflicts over this.
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agree one hundred percent. But welcome to modern, politicize everything America. Before the election you had people on the left saying they wouldn't trust a vaccine approved by "Trump's FDA" (Vice President Harris and Governor Cuomo said something along those lines). Now there are people on the right saying the same, except about approval by "Biden's FDA." This dude falls into the latter category.
I’ll say you are misremembering what Harris said because I don’t want to accuse you of lying. Her exact quote was:
“If the public health professionals, if Dr. Fauci, if the doctors, tell us that we should take it, I’ll be the first in line to take it – absolutely. But if Donald Trump tells us that we should take it, I’m not taking it.”
So “Trump’s FDA” (to use your term), she would trust. Trump himself, no. And who can blame her? The guy pushed every wackadoodle “cure” for months, even brought in a Demon Seed “doctor” and the MyPillow guy.
And of course, she and Biden received their vaccine doses on national TV to serve as role models. Trump? He received his privately, and he didn’t admit to getting it for two months even as his supporters refused to take it.
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I’ll say you are misremembering what Harris said because I don’t want to accuse you of lying. Her exact quote was:
“If the public health professionals, if Dr. Fauci, if the doctors, tell us that we should take it, I’ll be the first in line to take it – absolutely. But if Donald Trump tells us that we should take it, I’m not taking it.”
So “Trump’s FDA” (to use your term), she would trust. Trump himself, no. And who can blame her? The guy pushed every wackadoodle “cure” for months, even brought in a Demon Seed “doctor” and the MyPillow guy.
And of course, she and Biden received their vaccine doses on national TV to serve as role models. Trump? He received his privately, and he didn’t admit to getting it for two months even as his supporters refused to take it.
You do realize that the average person doesn't understand the nuance, right?
It was an absurd comment at the time, and did nothing to improve vaccine hesitancy.
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agree one hundred percent. But welcome to modern, politicize everything America. Before the election you had people on the left saying they wouldn't trust a vaccine approved by "Trump's FDA" (Vice President Harris and Governor Cuomo said something along those lines). Now there are people on the right saying the same, except about approval by "Biden's FDA." This dude falls into the latter category.
saint tony's FDA. it's about time he get's some heat for his hemming and hawing, flipping and flopping. i guess that's why he started hanging out with the "cool people" to provide him some cover. why, we can't criticize doc fettucine cuz he hated #45. there needs to be a full investigation into how and why this virus was ever "constructed", how when and why it got out of wuhan and speaking of real reparations, china needs to be held accountable to the rest of the world. why are many afraid to criticize china for anything? this has to stop.
we were on our way to holding them accountable, but then the biden enterprise got in the way
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You do realize that the average person doesn't understand the nuance, right?
I expect Marquette-educated people to be above average.
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My (CO ) workplace is following CDC guidance and basically lifting all restrictions for vaccinated folks, effective today.
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My (CO ) workplace is following CDC guidance and basically lifting all restrictions for vaccinated folks, effective today.
How are they verifying?
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How are they verifying?
If it’s like ours, they aren’t.
The moral burden of keeping people safe is shifting from the collective to the individual. It was inevitably going to happen at some point.
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My (CO ) workplace is following CDC guidance and basically lifting all restrictions for vaccinated folks, effective today.
Mine did the same yesterday.
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saint tony's FDA. it's about time he get's some heat for his hemming and hawing, flipping and flopping. i guess that's why he started hanging out with the "cool people" to provide him some cover. why, we can't criticize doc fettucine cuz he hated #45. there needs to be a full investigation into how and why this virus was ever "constructed", how when and why it got out of wuhan and speaking of real reparations, china needs to be held accountable to the rest of the world. why are many afraid to criticize china for anything? this has to stop.
we were on our way to holding them accountable, but then the biden enterprise got in the way
Don't you have some cloud to be yelling at, old man?
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There is no need to verify. Anyone who desires vaccination has gotten it by now. As for others, live at your own risk. Don't look to others or the government to protect your sorry ass, aina?
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My (CO ) workplace is following CDC guidance and basically lifting all restrictions for vaccinated folks, effective today.
Did that this week at the company I work for, but we have asked people to voluntarily disclose if they have been vaccinated. So far almost 60% of the company has responded that they have.
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My (CO ) workplace is following CDC guidance and basically lifting all restrictions for vaccinated folks, effective today.
We did it last Friday. Our building still has not, so we wear masks in the common areas but not within our space.
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How are they verifying?
CO does not require verification. But, my workplace may be a bit unique in the honesty of the employees - so I trust my coworkers.
Did that this week at the company I work for, but we have asked people to voluntarily disclose if they have been vaccinated. So far almost 60% of the company has responded that they have.
Same (voluntary) disclosure for us. Don't know the response rate, but anecdotally, everyone I've talked to is vaccinated, including a few that I didn't expect. So I'm guessing that our vaccination rate is higher than the national rate.
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There is no need to verify. Anyone who desires vaccination has gotten it by now. As for others, live at your own risk. Don't look to others or the government to protect your sorry ass, aina?
unnatural carnal knowledge those unable to get vaccine, Aina?
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unnatural carnal knowledge those unable to get vaccine, Aina?
It’s unfortunate but the alternative is???
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It’s unfortunate but the alternative is???
Prevent those willingly avoiding the vaccine from putting those unable to be vaccinated at risk.
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Does anyone know the fundamental difference between someone that has been fully vaccinated and someone with both strong IgG and IgM antibodies? Or if there is one? In terms of transmission and whatnot.
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Does anyone know the fundamental difference between someone that has been fully vaccinated and someone with both strong IgG and IgM antibodies? Or if there is one? In terms of transmission and whatnot.
I don’t know the answer to this but there is a lot of research on the vaccines providing a more complete and durable immunity. Here is one tweet summary with a link to the publication in the tweet.
https://twitter.com/erictopol/status/1394276222444609536?s=21 (https://twitter.com/erictopol/status/1394276222444609536?s=21)
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I don’t know the answer to this but there is a lot of research on the vaccines providing a more complete and durable immunity. Here is one tweet summary with a link to the publication in the tweet.
https://twitter.com/erictopol/status/1394276222444609536?s=21 (https://twitter.com/erictopol/status/1394276222444609536?s=21)
Thanks. I only ask cause my fiancee is still delaying her vaccination awaiting fertility studies (its been an ongoing argument with us, but shes overly cautious and it seems to be while the vaccines arent proven to have issues, they also arent proven not to...until studies complete). However, she got an antibody test last week and still has incredibly robust antibodies of both kinds. She's still wearing a mask and operating as normal in that way, but we were just discussing from risk standpoint, how different was she than someone who had been vaccinated (obviously pending antibodies wearing off).
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Prevent those willingly avoiding the vaccine from putting those unable to be vaccinated at risk.
C'mon man, let's get real. It's time to come out of the hidey hole, let go of the security blanket, and restore normalcy, aina?
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unnatural carnal knowledge those unable to get vaccine, Aina?
Those who haven't been vaccinated yet can still choose to wear a mask in places that have dropped mask mandates. Those who are vaccinated don't need to worry about whether unmasked folks are vaccinated or not. I think this is the basic premise of the CDC guidance and makes complete sense.
We've all been asked bear the burden of trying to prevent the spread for a very long time. For those who have been vaccinated, there is no need to continue to enforce restrictions. For those who have not, just keep doing what you've been doing until you can get your shots. I will personally welcome the societal shift of going back to not assuming every human being in your vicinity is a threat to your health and happiness.
I don't see a need to show proof of vaccination for most everyday activities like shopping, exercising, go to work, etc. Travel is a little different because of the close proximity in confined spaces, but I still think the ideas above apply here.
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Thanks. I only ask cause my fiancee is still delaying her vaccination awaiting fertility studies (its been an ongoing argument with us, but shes overly cautious and it seems to be while the vaccines arent proven to have issues, they also arent proven not to...until studies complete). However, she got an antibody test last week and still has incredibly robust antibodies of both kinds. She's still wearing a mask and operating as normal in that way, but we were just discussing from risk standpoint, how different was she than someone who had been vaccinated (obviously pending antibodies wearing off).
I thought I saw a small study on this and that it was safe (vaccine). If I stumble on it I will post the link.
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Those who haven't been vaccinated yet can still choose to wear a mask in places that have dropped mask mandates.
Not gonna happen. I would think that most of those that are unvaccinated have been fighting against wearing masks.
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Good try, but not entirely accurate. A large segment of the African-American population is abstaining from vaccination. They remain skeptical of side effects and do not want to be "guinea pigs" as they feel they have been in the past, hey?
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Not gonna happen. I would think that most of those that are unvaccinated have been fighting against wearing masks.
this is true. What I find ridiculous is the vaccinated who continue to wear masks outside and try and shame those who don't, even if we're vaccinated. Restaurants who have announced "mask optional" policies have been deluged with complaints and threats from makers while those who are continuing mask requirements are being deluged with threats from anti-maskers.
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Not gonna happen. I would think that most of those that are unvaccinated have been fighting against wearing masks.
I was more referring to those who haven't been yet been vaccinated but have plans to be.
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I was more referring to those who haven't been yet been vaccinated but have plans to be.
And that's a fair point to have with regards to folks who will be vaccinated, but haven't yet been.
I was referring to those unable to be vaccinated for whatever medical reason.
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this is true. What I find ridiculous is the vaccinated who continue to wear masks outside and try and shame those who don't, even if we're vaccinated. Restaurants who have announced "mask optional" policies have been deluged with complaints and threats from makers while those who are continuing mask requirements are being deluged with threats from anti-maskers.
Agreed here.
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Good try, but not entirely accurate. A large segment of the African-American population is abstaining from vaccination. They remain skeptical of side effects and do not want to be "guinea pigs" as they feel they have been in the past, hey?
This is true. And such a sad state of affairs. Beliefs in our institutions have been destroyed by so many for terrible reasons.
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Those who haven't been vaccinated yet can still choose to wear a mask in places that have dropped mask mandates. Those who are vaccinated don't need to worry about whether unmasked folks are vaccinated or not. I think this is the basic premise of the CDC guidance and makes complete sense.
We've all been asked bear the burden of trying to prevent the spread for a very long time. For those who have been vaccinated, there is no need to continue to enforce restrictions. For those who have not, just keep doing what you've been doing until you can get your shots. I will personally welcome the societal shift of going back to not assuming every human being in your vicinity is a threat to your health and happiness.
I don't see a need to show proof of vaccination for most everyday activities like shopping, exercising, go to work, etc. Travel is a little different because of the close proximity in confined spaces, but I still think the ideas above apply here.
I am pretty much here, too. Lots of common sense, ski.
I do totally support the likes of airlines and cruise lines requiring proof of vaccinations. Same with colleges and universities. I wouldn't blame management of indoor venues (sports, concerts, etc) for doing so, either. And for that matter, if a private business owner wants to require masks, that's his or her choice. Those who object have the right to go elsewhere.
But sooner or later, we were gonna have to get back to normal-ish.
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I was referring to those unable to be vaccinated for whatever medical reason.
What % of the population is that?
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And that's a fair point to have with regards to folks who will be vaccinated, but haven't yet been.
I was referring to those unable to be vaccinated for whatever medical reason.
For the people who are in a unique enough medical situation to not be able to get the vaccine, they'll just have to continue wearing a mask for the foreseeable future. There has to be a point where vaccinated people get to return to something resembling normalcy; we can't continue on with the pandemic mentality forever.
And on the plus side, I've got to think the percentage of people who won't be able to get the vaccine for medical reasons will be very, very low. For example, my mom is nearing 70 and has been on some form of chemo for the better part of the last 15 years. Her immune system is pretty compromised given all that history, but she was still encouraged by her doctors to get the vaccine.
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In some cases though, they can get the vaccine but there may be lessened, or no, immune response. They are doing some studies on that.
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For the people who are in a unique enough medical situation to not be able to get the vaccine, they'll just have to continue wearing a mask for the foreseeable future. There has to be a point where vaccinated people get to return to something resembling normalcy; we can't continue on with the pandemic mentality forever.
And on the plus side, I've got to think the percentage of people who won't be able to get the vaccine for medical reasons will be very, very low. For example, my mom is nearing 70 and has been on some form of chemo for the better part of the last 15 years. Her immune system is pretty compromised given all that history, but she was still encouraged by her doctors to get the vaccine.
Oh. Ya. I'm not talking about vaccinated people being punished.
I'm talking those unvaccinated and unwilling.
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Oh. Ya. I'm not talking about vaccinated people being punished.
I'm talking those unvaccinated and unwilling.
That's over half of America.
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Don't you have some cloud to be yelling at, old man?
you are cute when you are mad, but i ain't gonna exploit your yute, inexperience and naivety to call you names
you do seem to struggle mentally when your team is giving us unscientific, bad messaging. we need to hold our "experts" accountable and call them out when they are wrong. better yet, replace them with someone who can do his/her job with dignity as we pay this guy to give us unbiased, NONpartisan medical guidance. fausolini failed
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you are cute when you are mad, but i ain't gonna exploit your yute, inexperience and naivety to call you names
you do seem to struggle mentally when your team is giving us unscientific, bad messaging. we need to hold our "experts" accountable and call them out when they are wrong. better yet, replace them with someone who can do his/her job with dignity as we pay this guy to give us unbiased, NONpartisan medical guidance. fausolini failed
I'm not mad, bucko, I'm frustrated with how brainwashed you are. You're a lost human that has no desire to come back to the real world.
Next time, I'm just gonna report it and move on. You add nothing to conversation, just partisan drivel that is easily debunked.
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I'm not mad, bucko, I'm frustrated with how brainwashed you are. You're a lost human that has no desire to come back to the real world.
Next time, I'm just gonna report it and move on. You add nothing to conversation, just partisan drivel that is easily debunked.
Ignore it, Hards. Makes Scoop much more pleasant.
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Much like when the funny moment in a movie trailer ends up being the only funny moment in a bad movie...in that disaster of a take, Fausolini was actually really funny in the most absurd of ways
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Good try, but not entirely accurate. A large segment of the African-American population is abstaining from vaccination. They remain skeptical of side effects and do not want to be "guinea pigs" as they feel they have been in the past, hey?
There are many issues of vaccine hesitancy that need to be broken down. While this is one, the data through this lens doesn’t explain the situation as well as other theories.
https://twitter.com/charles_gaba/status/1395779055149096960?s=21 (https://twitter.com/charles_gaba/status/1395779055149096960?s=21)
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There are many issues of vaccine hesitancy that need to be broken down. While this is one, the data through this lens doesn’t explain the situation as well as other theories.
https://twitter.com/charles_gaba/status/1395779055149096960?s=21 (https://twitter.com/charles_gaba/status/1395779055149096960?s=21)
On that note, it's pretty clear what our elected officials are "telling" us:
Democratic lawmakers in both chambers of Congress have a 100% vaccination rate against Covid-19, a CNN survey of Capitol Hill found this week, significantly outpacing Republicans in the House and Senate and illustrating the partisan divide over the pandemic.
For Republicans, at least 44.8% of House members are vaccinated and at least 92% of senators are, CNN found.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/14/politics/democrats-vaccination-rates-house-mask-rules/index.html
I'll edit this to add, the 44% number is questionable, because:
One hundred and twelve Republican offices did not respond to multiple CNN inquires.
So of the 212 R's 95 have said "vaccinated", 5 are "not vaccinated", and 112 "no response"
Still, not the best messaging...
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In some cases though, they can get the vaccine but there may be lessened, or no, immune response. They are doing some studies on that.
There was a fully vaccinated woman in Wisconsin who died of Covid. She was undergoing chemo and her own family said that she it was probably because she had no immune response to the vaccine.
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I was referring to those unable to be vaccinated for whatever medical reason.
What % of the population is that?
Since this wasn't answered, I did some more googling. I don't see any significant portion of the population that are "unable to be vaccinated for whatever medical reason". The only caveats are those:
1) < 12 (not yet very affected by covid)
2) people with a severe allergic reaction (anaphylaxis) to any component of the COVID-19 vaccine
3) immunocompromised the vaccine may not be as effective
So allergic reaction seems to be the only reason (other than age) one can NOT get a vaccine. From what I found "Anaphylaxis to the mRNA COVID-19 vaccines is currently estimated to occur in 2.5 to 11.1 cases per million doses, largely in individuals with a history of allergy" so as best as my math goes on the high end (11.1 cases per million) : 0.00111% of the US will have a reaction to the vaccine. But that doesn't mean they can't get it, because Anaphylaxis is treatable as long as they are monitored ~15 minutes within dosage.
So...I'm going with 0% "can't" get the vaccine for health reasons.
FWIW, I also know women that have gotten pregnant -> got covid -> got a vaccine -> had their (healthy) baby. In that order.
Short story: Everybody can get it. Just do it and stop being partisan about it. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Shorter story: 100% can't live through covid. Get the vaccine.
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Since this wasn't answered, I did some more googling. I don't see any significant portion of the population that are "unable to be vaccinated for whatever medical reason". The only caveats are those:
1) < 12 (not yet very affected by covid)
2) people with a severe allergic reaction (anaphylaxis) to any component of the COVID-19 vaccine
3) immunocompromised the vaccine may not be as effective
So allergic reaction seems to be the only reason (other than age) one can NOT get a vaccine. From what I found "Anaphylaxis to the mRNA COVID-19 vaccines is currently estimated to occur in 2.5 to 11.1 cases per million doses, largely in individuals with a history of allergy" so as best as my math goes on the high end (11.1 cases per million) : 0.00111% of the US will have a reaction to the vaccine. But that doesn't mean they can't get it, because Anaphylaxis is treatable as long as they are monitored ~15 minutes within dosage.
So...I'm going with 0% "can't" get the vaccine for health reasons.
FWIW, I also know women that have gotten pregnant -> got covid -> got a vaccine -> had their (healthy) baby. In that order.
Short story: Everybody can get it. Just do it and stop being partisan about it. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Shorter story: 100% can't live through covid. Get the vaccine.
Appreciate the info.
Agree with your TLDR
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I'll edit this to add, the 44% number is questionable, because:
So of the 212 R's 95 have said "vaccinated", 5 are "not vaccinated", and 112 "no response"
Still, not the best messaging...
Republicans don't talk to CNN for good reason. Well, unless you're Liz Cheney.
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Republicans don't talk to CNN for good reason. Well, unless you're Liz Cheney.
Yeah that’s not the reason. Nice try though.
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Republicans don't talk to CNN for good reason. Well, unless you're Liz Cheney.
Lots of Republicans talk to CNN. However, not many who have sold their souls to the non-conservative who has co-opted the Republican Party talk to CNN, that is correct.
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Republicans don't talk to CNN for good reason. Well, unless you're Liz Cheney.
Yeah, and Lightweight doesn't talk to the white media, hey?
#racist
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Yeah, and Lightweight doesn't talk to the white media, hey?
#racist
So your argument is:
a) Cheney is a 'Lightweight' because she won't support the Big Lie and
b) conservative media = 'white media'
The most on point modern GOP/Q perspective - glad you aren't trying to hide it anymore.
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So your argument is:
a) Cheney is a 'Lightweight' because she won't support the Big Lie and
b) conservative media = 'white media'
The most on point modern GOP/Q perspective - glad you aren't trying to hide it anymore.
Think he is talking about Lightfoot. Not sure why he thinks that is relevant.
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Just pointing out the obvious that too many folks want to dismiss, hey?
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Think he is talking about Lightfoot. Not sure why he thinks that is relevant.
Red herring to distract from the big lie and complete absence of ideas.
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https://www.businessinsider.com.au/lauren-boebert-falsely-texas-no-covid-19-deaths-two-months-2021-5
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https://www.businessinsider.com.au/lauren-boebert-falsely-texas-no-covid-19-deaths-two-months-2021-5
I find a lot of faults with Dem policy but I don’t find as many Dems who are just out right lying / misrepresenting the truth like Boebert, MTG & even the lost soul of Ron Johnson. I can’t believe fellow GOPers don’t find value in shutting these people up. Their lies is not doing a thing to grow the party. It’s feeding a small part of the base. Incredibly frustrating.
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I find a lot of faults with Dem policy but I don’t find as many Dems who are just out right lying / misrepresenting the truth like Boebert, MTG & even the lost soul of Ron Johnson. I can’t believe fellow GOPers don’t find value in shutting these people up. Their lies is not doing a thing to grow the party. It’s feeding a small part of the base. Incredibly frustrating.
If the media weren’t so fixated on MTG and Bobert their crackpot claims would go nowhere. But instead, they’re elevating them to deity status much like Fox News did with AOC.
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If the media weren’t so fixated on MTG and Bobert their crackpot claims would go nowhere. But instead, they’re elevating them to deity status much like Fox News did with AOC.
Some blame on the media but this is very much a GOP problem - they created it, they voted them in, and they need to deal with it. Otherwise we'd be able to point out the efforts the GOP leadership are taking to reign these obviously insane representatives and then point to the media resurrecting the crazy. But there hasn't been any criticism from the leadership. Lack of criticism = endorsement (also, people said the exact same thing about the media and Trump)
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If the media weren’t so fixated on MTG and Bobert their crackpot claims would go nowhere. But instead, they’re elevating them to deity status much like Fox News did with AOC.
Absolutely ... it's absolutely the media's fault that Marjorie Q. Greene compared a House mask mandate with Jews being taken to the gas chamber.
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Think he is talking about Lightfoot. Not sure why he thinks that is relevant.
got it, super odd non sequitur. Unless.....
Red herring to distract from the big lie and complete absence of ideas.
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Absolutely ... it's absolutely the media's fault that Marjorie Q. Greene compared a House mask mandate with Jews being taken to the gas chamber.
If nobody hears it does it matter?
I know, ratings and clicks.
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If nobody hears it does it matter?
I know, ratings and clicks.
So, it is your contention that the media should ignore when a member of Congress says such things - let alone when her party leadership condones them. Interesting.
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I find a lot of faults with Dem policy but I don’t find as many Dems who are just out right lying / misrepresenting the truth like Boebert, MTG & even the lost soul of Ron Johnson. I can’t believe fellow GOPers don’t find value in shutting these people up. Their lies is not doing a thing to grow the party. It’s feeding a small part of the base. Incredibly frustrating.
Lens, you're right, but your fellow GOPers have concluded that they don't want or need to grow the party but instead will use rigged statehouses and federal judiciary to shrink the electorate.
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So, it is your contention that the media should ignore when a member of Congress says such things - let alone when her party leadership condones them. Interesting.
They've turned her into a celebrity. If not for the national media people outside of her district wouldn't know who she is (same with Bobert). They're giving her a national platform to spew her nonsense. She knows this too. The media, and left, are being played by her and at the same time, elevating her in profile and importance.
It's the same with Trump now. He has no social media platform and yet my feeds are full of "did you see what Trump said" tweets. They're giving him what he can't get on his own.
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They've turned her into a celebrity. If not for the national media people outside of her district wouldn't know who she is (same with Bobert). They're giving her a national platform to spew her nonsense. She knows this too. The media, and left, are being played by her and at the same time, elevating her in profile and importance.
It's the same with Trump now. He has no social media platform and yet my feeds are full of "did you see what Trump said" tweets. They're giving him what he can't get on his own.
Clicks above all else!! Forget the divide it causes amongst us.
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They've turned her into a celebrity. If not for the national media people outside of her district wouldn't know who she is (same with Bobert). They're giving her a national platform to spew her nonsense. She knows this too. The media, and left, are being played by her and at the same time, elevating her in profile and importance.
It's the same with Trump now. He has no social media platform and yet my feeds are full of "did you see what Trump said" tweets. They're giving him what he can't get on his own.
You're blaming the media for her platform not the district that elected a nut job high school drop out to federal office? This is some misplaced frustration
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Clicks above all else!! Forget the divide it causes amongst us.
That's right! It's the media's fault that the high school dropout, the Qanon adherent, and the underage sex-trafficker are simultaneously the loudest and the most ignorant national legislators. It's the media that is trying to divide, not these imbeciles with their actual words.
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You're blaming the media for her platform not the district that elected a nut job high school drop out to federal office? This is some misplaced frustration
He did say “outside her district”. They are plenty to blame. But there are terrible Congresspeople across the country who are dumb and say dumb stuff but are more or less anonymous to the general public nationally.
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That's right! It's the media's fault that the high school dropout, the Qanon adherent, and the underage sex-trafficker are simultaneously the loudest and the most ignorant national legislators. It's the media that is trying to divide, not these imbeciles with their actual words.
It's also the media's fault that when MTG compares the push for vaccines to Jews being gassed in Nazi Germany, basically only Adam K calls her out. Does McCarthy not have twitter?
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It's also the media's fault that when MTG compares the push for vaccines to Jews being gassed in Nazi Germany, basically only Adam K calls her out. Does McCarthy not have twitter?
What would you have him do? Surely not call her out and incur the wrath of Dear Leader??
The Republican party had the opportunity to make a clean break from Trump after 1/6; they chose the opposite, right down to pretending the insurrection was just a normal day. And once they took that step, they had to adhere to ALL the dogma including the evilness of masks, the vaccine, and "stolen" elections.
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Don't make me stop the car and shut this board down!
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https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/
Very interesting look into the history of the whole "5 micron aerosol" thing and how that threshold impacted the bad advice that Sars-CoV-2 is not airborne early on.
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Don't make me stop the car and shut this board down!
+1
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I find a lot of faults with Dem policy but I don’t find as many Dems who are just out right lying / misrepresenting the truth like Boebert, MTG & even the lost soul of Ron Johnson. I can’t believe fellow GOPers don’t find value in shutting these people up. Their lies is not doing a thing to grow the party. It’s feeding a small part of the base. Incredibly frustrating.
Sarcasm, I assume?
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I find a lot of faults with Dem policy but I don’t find as many Dems who are just out right lying / misrepresenting the truth like Boebert, MTG & even the lost soul of Ron Johnson. I can’t believe fellow GOPers don’t find value in shutting these people up. Their lies is not doing a thing to grow the party. It’s feeding a small part of the base. Incredibly frustrating.
Lens
Guess you missed Adam Schiff, Jerry Nadler, et al. They knew from sworn testimony in closed session that there was no evidence of Russian collusion but publicly insisted differently for years. So, the very definition of the big lie.
Anyone who is surprised by politicians (from either side) blatantly lying when it suits their purposes hasn’t been paying attention for at least 20 years.
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Nice to see about 95% mask usage at the grocery store today despite it no longer being required by the company (for vaccinated individuals). Stay safe out there.
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Guess you missed Adam Schiff, Jerry Nadler, et al. They knew from sworn testimony in closed session that there was no evidence of Russian collusion but publicly insisted differently for years. So, the very definition of the big lie.
False. Did the January 6th tourists tell you this one?
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False. Did the January 6th tourists tell you this one?
I think Joe’s popularity and cold efficiency have riled these people up again. They miss the chaos & crazy.
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False. Did the January 6th tourists tell you this one?
LOL. Never voted for Trump. Too many true things about him disturbed me. But that doesn’t mean I swallow the fiction, too. That’s for the lunatics from the far left.
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Nice to see about 95% mask usage at the grocery store today despite it no longer being required by the company (for vaccinated individuals). Stay safe out there.
Why is that nice to see? If it’s no longer required by the place of business, the CDC, nor supported by science why is that nice to see? Either you’re surrounded by science deniers or unvaccinated people, neither scenario sounds nice.
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I’ve traveled quite a bit the last two months (after getting both doses). With United’s giveaway for winning free flights to those who upload their vaccine card to their site/app, I wonder if we get to a point with an airline that if 60% (I’m just picking a number here) of people on a flight manifest are fully vaccinated, no masks will be needed on said flight.
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Why is that nice to see? If it’s no longer required by the place of business, the CDC, nor supported by science why is that nice to see? Either you’re surrounded by science deniers or unvaccinated people, neither scenario sounds nice.
Because it means people are being respectful of the comfort level of those around them?
I travel quite a bit even after the new guidance, and in some places most people are still wearing masks. In others not many are (I assume they are vaccinated). I follow the crowd - it's not that hard for me to mask up - and when in Rome....
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Since Connecticut went mask optional for vaccinated May 19 but individual store decision I've been leaving off where store mask signs have been completely taken down and wearing where the signs are still up.
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Because it means people are being respectful of the comfort level of those around them?
I travel quite a bit even after the new guidance, and in some places most people are still wearing masks. In others not many are (I assume they are vaccinated). I follow the crowd - it's not that hard for me to mask up - and when in Rome....
Similar - the majority of stores in KC have followed CDC/local guidelines and removed the mask mandate but if the employees are masked up I'm going to respect that them and put it on. Seems like the nominal amount of courtesy to show those serving/working. We live a couple of blocks from Kansas, who lifted their requirements a month ago, and the difference is pretty stark with far fewer mask wearers. maybe because they've had a few more weeks to adjust to it.
Interestingly customer facing employees in KS are quick to adjust to the customer. We went car shopping a couple weeks ago (a thread in and of itself with current chip shortage) in every KS dealership, if it wasn't busy, as soon as we walked in with masks the staff immediately put theirs on. If it was busy they already had them on.
As you said - it's not that hard to show a little courtesy.
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Because it means people are being respectful of the comfort level of those around them?
I travel quite a bit even after the new guidance, and in some places most people are still wearing masks. In others not many are (I assume they are vaccinated). I follow the crowd - it's not that hard for me to mask up - and when in Rome....
How is it being "respectful of the comfort level for those around them?" If the vaccinated who are asymptomatic don't spread the disease, it's just a false sense of comfort.
Sorry but if masks aren't required by the place of business, then I am not wearing them given my vaccination status. It has nothing to do with disrespecting someone else or making them feel less comfortable.
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Nice to see about 95% mask usage at the grocery store today despite it no longer being required by the company (for vaccinated individuals). Stay safe out there.
Respectful my ass. Its totally stupid. Liberals just can't give up their security blanket. Believe the science 'cuz its real, aina?
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They've turned her into a celebrity. If not for the national media people outside of her district wouldn't know who she is (same with Bobert). They're giving her a national platform to spew her nonsense. She knows this too. The media, and left, are being played by her and at the same time, elevating her in profile and importance.
It's the same with Trump now. He has no social media platform and yet my feeds are full of "did you see what Trump said" tweets. They're giving him what he can't get on his own.
100%
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Respectful my ass. Its totally stupid. Liberals just can't give up their security blanket. Believe the science 'cuz its real, aina?
Let us not forget that if Conservatives had just worn the damn things from the get go a couple hundred thousand people would still be alive and kickin, aina?
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If the employees are wearing them, I will wear mine. Common courtesy.
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If the employees are wearing them, I will wear mine. Common courtesy.
I don't get this. If they are not required by the store for vaccinated customers, and you meet that definition, how is it common courtesy to wear a mask if employees are?
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Let us not forget that if Conservatives had just worn the damn things from the get go a couple hundred thousand people would still be alive and kickin, aina?
Your response has nothing to do with the present. We now have a vaccine and it's available to everyone who desires it. Time to live in the here and now, aina?
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I don't get this. If they are not required by the store for vaccinated customers, and you meet that definition, how is it common courtesy to wear a mask if employees are?
I'm sorry you don't get this.
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Why is that nice to see? If it’s no longer required by the place of business, the CDC, nor supported by science why is that nice to see? Either you’re surrounded by science deniers or unvaccinated people, neither scenario sounds nice.
It's nice to see because the science says that masks can prevent the spread of all illnesses/viruses/pathogens etc. I like knowing that the members of my community have learned from the pandemic, and are continuing to take the (frankly extremely small and painless) step to help the health of both themselves as well as their neighbors, even if the spread that they're preventing is less dangerous than Covid-19. Seeing people take their health/wellbeing more serious is nice to see the same way it is nice to see motorcycle riders choosing to wear helmets, even if it isn't required by law.
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Respectful my ass. Its totally stupid. Liberals just can't give up their security blanket. Believe the science 'cuz its real, aina?
This is not even remotely true. I'm definitely liberal and I just stated unless required by the establishment, I'm not wearing my mask because I'm fully vaccinated.
Fluffy just said the same thing.
The only other thing I've read here from the other "liberals" is to please show courtesy and respect to workers in an establishment.
Slurping FOX, and using "just can't give up their security blanket" is too strong and blind to what others have already typed.
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Respectful my ass. Its totally stupid. Liberals just can't give up their security blanket. Believe the science 'cuz its real, aina?
I've never posting anything political on this, or the main boards. See my previous post about believing the science and seeing people learning about disease spread and taking new steps that they didn't have to prior to March '20. Stay safe.
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I'm comfortable in having folks do whatever they want. If you prefer to wear a mask, go for it. If you're vaccinated and prefer not to... perfectly fine. Frankly if you're unvaccinated and choose not to mask; your risk. If someone 'preaches' about what I should do I'll ignore them. If they persist, I'll interact with them less or maybe not at all. Pretty simple. :)
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It's nice to see because the science says that masks can prevent the spread of all illnesses/viruses/pathogens etc. I like knowing that the members of my community have learned from the pandemic, and are continuing to take the (frankly extremely small and painless) step to help the health of both themselves as well as their neighbors, even if the spread that they're preventing is less dangerous than Covid-19. Seeing people take their health/wellbeing more serious is nice to see the same way it is nice to see motorcycle riders choosing to wear helmets, even if it isn't required by law.
So according to you, we should all be wearing masks indoors at all times to prevent the spread of all disease? Sorry that was never supposed to be the standard that society was expecting to live up to. If you want to do so, that's great, but IMO that standard is well beyond simple "common courtesy" if you asked about 95% of the people out there.
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I'm sorry you don't get this.
I'm sorry you can't explain it.
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So according to you, we should all be wearing masks indoors at all times to prevent the spread of all disease? Sorry that was never supposed to be the standard that society was expecting to live up to. If you want to do so, that's great, but IMO that standard is well beyond simple "common courtesy" if you asked about 95% of the people out there.
Not at all times no. I'm sitting alone in my office right now, maskless. When I'm outside, I do not wear one, unless I know I will be in a crowded space (I will be wearing one when I'm at summerfest this fall). As I originally said, I was in a grocery store, which is a space where it is inherently more difficult to socially distance because of the isles. I anticipate wearing a mask at grocery stores for the foreseeable future. I anticipate wearing a mask at all MU games this winter. I believe that you can both "do everything you could do before Covid" and wear a mask while doing so. I guess wearing a mask bothers some more than others, it's never really bothered me at all, so I see no reason not to continue to do so when the situation calls for it.
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Not at all times no. I'm sitting alone in my office right now, maskless. When I'm outside, I do not wear one, unless I know I will be in a crowded space (I will be wearing one when I'm at summerfest this fall). As I originally said, I was in a grocery store, which is a space where it is inherently more difficult to socially distance because of the isles. I anticipate wearing a mask at grocery stores for the foreseeable future. I anticipate wearing a mask at all MU games this winter. I believe that you can both "do everything you could do before Covid" and wear a mask while doing so. I guess wearing a mask bothers some more than others, it's never really bothered me at all, so I see no reason not to continue to do so when the situation calls for it.
Go for it DJO. Seriously. But don't expect that many others will. And for goodness sake, don't place those expectations on others. Do that and nobody can have a legitimate gripe.
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Go for it DJO. Seriously. But don't expect that many others will. And for goodness sake, don't place those expectations on others. Do that and nobody can have a legitimate gripe.
Absolutely, I was not judging those that weren't wearing masks yesterday, it was 100% observational. I expect that given more time, even the most stringent mask wearers will start to relax their personal policies.
May not be a perfect analogy, but statistically speaking, there has been no safer time to fly in my lifetime, than when the airports first opened up after 9/11. Yet, I know a ton of people that were still extremely hesitant months afterwards. As more and more time passes, I will likely be more and more comfortable not wearing a mask. I think that is just human nature.
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Let us not forget that if Conservatives had just worn the damn things from the get go a couple hundred thousand people would still be alive and kickin, aina?
show me the data on this! totally irresponsible response. either purposely provocative or ill-informed(putting it politely) i can make a long list of yur peeps who, when the cams weren't on, were defying every order they subscribed upon their fiefdom. wretchen gretchen, killer coumo, gruesome newsome...bunch of hypocrites
those gaiter things are the worst. you know how dirty they are? you think they wash those even once per week? if they filter anything, which they don't, they harbor more disease than they are meant to protect anyone from. they are breathing in a science project of bugs and exhaling them as well. i'd love to do a petri test with one. shake it over the dish and let it grow...
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I don't get this. If they are not required by the store for vaccinated customers, and you meet that definition, how is it common courtesy to wear a mask if employees are?
I can't believe that I'm agreeing with sultan.
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show me the data on this! totally irresponsible response. either purposely provocative or ill-informed(putting it politely) i can make a long list of yur peeps who, when the cams weren't on, were defying every order they subscribed upon their fiefdom. wretchen gretchen, killer coumo, gruesome newsome...bunch of hypocrites
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/10/24/927472457/universal-mask-wearing-could-save-some-130-000-u-s-lives-study-suggests
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How is it being "respectful of the comfort level for those around them?" If the vaccinated who are asymptomatic don't spread the disease, it's just a false sense of comfort.
Sorry but if masks aren't required by the place of business, then I am not wearing them given my vaccination status. It has nothing to do with disrespecting someone else or making them feel less comfortable.
I've stayed out of this debate largely because there is a lot of partisan bickering. But a few important details.
1. When we discuss epidemiology, it is important to remember that no one can say "asymptomatic don't spread disease," the best we can say is that it is very low risk. Even then, there is limited data on how many asymptomatic vaccinated people there are out there, as they are not usually getting tested.
2. There is also a difference between pre-symptomatic and asymptomatic individuals. The pre-symtomatic and vaccinated can still spread disease.
3. The degree to which you may exhibit symptoms, and your defense from the virus will be highly dependent on which vaccine you get, and any underlying weakened immune systems. For instance, the J&J vaccine provides lower neutralizing antibodies than prior infections, and is actually worse than the Russian Sputnik vaccine. If you have that vaccine, then you will be more vulnerable than someone with Moderna, which offers the highest neutralizing antibodies.
Further, the duration of protection varies, so you do not know when you may be susceptible again.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01377-8
So the bottom line from my perspective, if you are an individual with co-morbidities, and you have possibly a weakened immune response due to medication or disease, it makes sense to continue to wear a mask in public until disease spread is low. This is especially true if you have the J&J vaccine.
So, if employees are wearing a mask, you do not know if that is possibly because they cannot get vaccinated, or because they are at elevated risk. In either case, since wearing a mask doesn't hurt anyone, it is common courtesy to wear a mask around others wearing a mask. This is regardless of whether you are already vaccinated for the reasons above.
I view it the same way as I do for deciding to put pants on before getting my mail. I don't need pants, don't care if others see me in my underwear, but it doesn't hurt me to put on pants and my neighbors may appreciate it. Common courtesy.
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Wearing a mask after vaccination is like a male wearing a condom, when with his wife, after a vasectomy, hey?
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Wearing a mask after vaccination is like a male wearing a condom, when with his wife, after a vasectomy, hey?
Which is recommended by medical professionals... lol
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Wearing a mask after vaccination is like a male wearing a condom, when with his wife, after a vasectomy, hey?
Well someone doesn't have an open marriage.
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those gaiter things are the worst. you know how dirty they are? you think they wash those even once per week? if they filter anything, which they don't, they harbor more disease than they are meant to protect anyone from. they are breathing in a science project of bugs and exhaling them as well. i'd love to do a petri test with one. shake it over the dish and let it grow...
"Healthcare professional"
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idk why this is so heated. I'm wearing a mask for at least a couple more weeks due to some combination of (i) I got used to it and not wearing a mask indoors still gives me the heebs a bit, (ii) I think we need a couple more weeks before we can say that anyone who wants a vax had easy access 6 weeks ago (appx time from first shot to fully vaxxed), and (iii) I think removing the mask mandate was a cost-benefit analysis that decided that (A) telling people they could remove masks would encourage more people to get vaxxed > (B) risk of infections from people removing masks a bit too early. That all being said, wearing a mask for a little bit longer just feels like the path of least resistance to me so I'm doing it because its less mental strain than working through all this too much. I get that others don't feel the same way, and the CDC said they don't have to mask so that's fine too.
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Your response has nothing to do with the present. We now have a vaccine and it's available to everyone who desires it. Time to live in the here and now, aina?
Ah yes, let's crap on people wearing masks (this doesn't affect you, personally) but just give a pass to the folks who went without and ruined the last year and a half for the rest of us.
Live and let live it is!
Kinda really interesting that you also want to rehash the past regarding Fauci, China, and Big Gretch; but not the people who refused masks.
Really interesting. Care to defend that position, or are you cool with the hypocrisy?
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show me the data on this! totally irresponsible response. either purposely provocative or ill-informed(putting it politely) i can make a long list of yur peeps who, when the cams weren't on, were defying every order they subscribed upon their fiefdom. wretchen gretchen, killer coumo, gruesome newsome...bunch of hypocrites
those gaiter things are the worst. you know how dirty they are? you think they wash those even once per week? if they filter anything, which they don't, they harbor more disease than they are meant to protect anyone from. they are breathing in a science project of bugs and exhaling them as well. i'd love to do a petri test with one. shake it over the dish and let it grow...
Pakuni pulled it up in less than a half an hour after you posted. Probably with 15-30 seconds of searching. The data is out there, and you refuse to accept it. Time and time again, you get your ass handed to you, and then you just move on to the next world salad of insults.
It's so cringey to see a grown man use playground insults.
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I don't get this. If they are not required by the store for vaccinated customers, and you meet that definition, how is it common courtesy to wear a mask if employees are?
I can't believe that I'm agreeing with sultan.
Can't speak for Tower but for me it's because the employer is making the employees wear masks after the mandate ends to be extra precautious with the health of their employees in order to a) not lose $'s because of lost shifts and b) to show the employees, many of whom were deemed 'essential', that they still value them. I don't care about 'a' but IMO the simple act of putting on a mask when employees have to shows them that you also care about their health and value their work.
Something that takes little effort and is done for the benefit of someone else = common courtesy.
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Ah yes, let's crap on people wearing masks (this doesn't affect you, personally) but just give a pass to the folks who went without and ruined the last year and a half for the rest of us.
Live and let live it is!
Kinda really interesting that you also want to rehash the past regarding Fauci, China, and Big Gretch; but not the people who refused masks.
Really interesting. Care to defend that position, or are you cool with the hypocrisy?
I don't give a damn if people want to wear masks, at this point, or not. Just don't mandate me as I've been vaccinated since mid-January. After spending over a year 12 inches from people's mouths and noses, in the midst of the pandemic, I have zero interest in hearing how "extra cautious" we need to be. Hell, if you have a medical condition or choose not to be vaccinated, the rest of us should not have to alter our lives to accommodate the very few. Just stay in your hidey hole.
This entire covid pandemic became a political football throughout 2020. Sadly, decisions on both sides of the aisle were made to gain political advantages. These decisions often resulted in financial ruin, mental health issues, and caused great emotional distress. It time to stop the nonsense and political posturing and return to normalcy.
As for hypocrisy Brian, there is none greater than yelling "science is real" and then blowing off and disregarding the science and protection of vaccinations, aina?
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Something that takes little effort and is done for the benefit of someone else = common courtesy.
What is the benefit, though? If I'm vaccinated, I (statistically) pose a miniscule threat to their health.
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https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/10/24/927472457/universal-mask-wearing-could-save-some-130-000-u-s-lives-study-suggests
NPR is like fox in reverse so i have as much respect for our tax paid for pravda as you guys do for my sources
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I don't give a damn if people want to wear masks, at this point, or not. Just don't mandate me as I've been vaccinated since mid-January. After spending over a year 12 inches from people's mouths and noses, in the midst of the pandemic, I have zero interest in hearing how "extra cautious" we need to be. Hell, if you have a medical condition or choose not to be vaccinated, the rest of us should not have to alter our lives to accommodate the very few. Just stay in your hidey hole.
This entire covid pandemic became a political football throughout 2020. Sadly, decisions on both sides of the aisle were made to gain political advantages. These decisions often resulted in financial ruin, mental health issues, and caused great emotional distress. It time to stop the nonsense and political posturing and return to normalcy.
As for hypocrisy Brian, there is none greater than yelling "science is real" and then blowing off and disregarding the science and protection of vaccinations, aina?
1. It's Bryan.
2. Doc, I don't care if they want to wear masks either, but they're required in a lot of places still. I don't wear mine unless I'm required because I, too, was forward facing for a year, and got no work from home status either. I've been fully vaccinated since mid-Feb.
3. Absolutely agree that this has been politicized, but that's what happens when science gets denied early on. Something like this should never have been politicized.
4. Financial ruin, mental health issues, and emotional distress are a big deal, but the biggest deal are the hundreds of thousands of dead Americans that died from the virus and its absolutely wild spread. Why was mask wearing so polarizing? Why do some people still believe that this thing is a 'hoax'? You can pontificate about trusting science, but then at least be consistent and condemn the people who made this problem so much worse once we realized how Covid spread.
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NPR is like fox in reverse so i have as much respect for our tax paid for pravda as you guys do for my sources
As I said, you're hopeless.
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What is the benefit, though? If I'm vaccinated, I (statistically) pose a miniscule threat to their health.
Small gesture that acknowledges 'I agree with your employer that your health is important and I value your work' that the other person may appreciate. Basically the same benefit as any other common curtesy.
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Lens
Guess you missed Adam Schiff, Jerry Nadler, et al. They knew from sworn testimony in closed session that there was no evidence of Russian collusion but publicly insisted differently for years. So, the very definition of the big lie.
Anyone who is surprised by politicians (from either side) blatantly lying when it suits their purposes hasn’t been paying attention for at least 20 years.
NM ... off topic
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I'm sorry you can't explain it.
I'm sorry courtesy needs explained.
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NPR is like fox in reverse so i have as much respect for our tax paid for pravda as you guys do for my sources
Tell me you didn't read the story without telling me you didn't read the story.
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1. It's Bryan.
2. Doc, I don't care if they want to wear masks either, but they're required in a lot of places still. I don't wear mine unless I'm required because I, too, was forward facing for a year, and got no work from home status either. I've been fully vaccinated since mid-Feb.
3. Absolutely agree that this has been politicized, but that's what happens when science gets denied early on. Something like this should never have been politicized.
4. Financial ruin, mental health issues, and emotional distress are a big deal, but the biggest deal are the hundreds of thousands of dead Americans that died from the virus and its absolutely wild spread. Why was mask wearing so polarizing? Why do some people still believe that this thing is a 'hoax'? You can pontificate about trusting science, but then at least be consistent and condemn the people who made this problem so much worse once we realized how Covid spread.
First, I apologize having misspelled your first name. No disrespect was intended. My position on businesses requiring mask wearing is simple. If I want or need to patronize that business, I'll wear a mask with no pushback coming from me. On the other hand, I have no problem with indoor dining now or being in a crowded room with unmasked people. For me, its over.
And, btw, 6 feet of social distancing was always a total joke. But, to violate that made people uneasy, squirm, and other wise go crazy.
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Small gesture that acknowledges 'I agree with your employer that your health is important and I value your work' that the other person may appreciate. Basically the same benefit as any other common curtesy.
The ultimate act of valuing other people's health and work is getting vaccinated, no?
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The ultimate act of valuing other people's health and work is getting vaccinated.
Agree but the two are in no way mutually exclusive.
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NPR is like fox in reverse so i have as much respect for our tax paid for pravda as you guys do for my sources
It's a study from the University of Washington you moron.
You are completely reality-proofed and no facts or evidence will ever have the ability to penetrate your shell of intentional ignorance.
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First, I apologize having misspelled your first name. No disrespect was intended. My position on businesses requiring mask wearing is simple. If I want or need to patronize that business, I'll wear a mask with no pushback coming from me. On the other hand, I have no problem with indoor dining now or being in a crowded room with unmasked people. For me, its over.
And, btw, 6 feet of social distancing was always a total joke. But, to violate that made people uneasy, squirm, and other wise go crazy.
I know, and honestly, I don't care if my name is spelled wrong ;D I generally feel the same regarding mask wearing under current conditions. And while I don't disagree with you about the six feet thing, the CDC had to put out a number, and it ended up being six. I do think it was pretty funny to watch people think that six feet made them safe. Sure, it made them safer, than two feet, but ideally just don't be in a room where someone has covid... haha. Those first videos of the particle tests we saw about a year ago made it very clear that if the virus was airborne, then nothing short of total separation would guarantee absolute safety.
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I'm sorry courtesy needs explained.
There is nothing discourteous about not wearing a mask when it isn’t required of me.
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There is nothing discourteous about not wearing a mask when it isn’t required of me.
I don't think he's suggesting that not wearing a mask is discourteous. He just considers is a courtesy to others who may feel anxiety around those who are maskless. You're free to choose differently.
FWIW, defining what is and isn't courteous by "what is required" is odd. You're not required to hold the door open for others, or say "please" and "thank you," either. It's still courteous, though.
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There is nothing discourteous about not wearing a mask when it isn’t required of me.
this.
I still always keep a mask with me. If a person wants me to wear a mask in their business or home then that is their decision and I abide by it. If a person demands I wear a mask when I'm out running, biking, or walking on the sidewalk, then they need to get over themselves.
My building had a rooftop gathering on Sunday, No masks and the couple in our building who has not been vaccinated yet did not attend. They told us this ahead of time and did not demand we wear masks to accommodate them.
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I'm sorry you can't explain it.
Way I see it is this:
1) Your mask protects me, my mask protects you. This has been the foundation of mask wearing since the beginning.
2a) The CDC's new guidance is ham-handed, and while the science points to unmasking as shifting the risk/burden to the unvaccinated (as it should be), in practice it still results in an 'honor system'. In theory, this only hurts the unvaccinated.
2b) However, we know in reality that many of our societal benefits elude and societal burdens compound in minority or lower socioeconomic parts of our society. This includes higher percentages of comorbidities, multi-generational homes (Inc those where immune systems may be weakest/vaccine efficacy lowest). Also, children who are unvaccinated, and that honor system threatens children of all socioeconomic classes EVEN if mortality rates are low. Low risk does not equal no risk, and I think you'll find parents' risk tolerance is lower for their children than themselves.
2c) Those communities also have received lower allotments of vaccines and have a history of vaccine hesitancy because of government and corporate misdeeds of the past.
2d) Those individuals represent a disproportionate percentage of workers in retail, groceries, or other service jobs. While the tide has shifted and labor markets have tightened a bit because workers have a bit more power, IN GENERAL these workers do not have real economic power and cannot just refuse to work or push for more airtight protections.
*** sidebar:
This is what the states stripping additional unemployment rights are trying to undo - stripping away the most tangible power and upward wage pressure your average non-union worker has held in decades.
***
3. Given those workers don't have power to control their working conditions or the luxury of refusing to work, and given there are real macro issues in our welfare, Healthcare, et all systems that put many of those individuals (or their families, unvaccinated children, etc) at disproportionate risk, I can imagine that me advertising that I am considerate of their circumstances - if any, or whatever they might be - might put them at ease. This would be just as true if I chose not to be vaccinated.
Addendum: it's a goddamn piece of cloth; why is this so hard for us?
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Way I see it is this:
1) Your mask protects me, my mask protects you. This has been the foundation of mask wearing since the beginning.
2a) The CDC's new guidance is ham-handed, and while the science points to unmasking as shifting the risk/burden to the unvaccinated (as it should be), in practice it still results in an 'honor system'. In theory, this only hurts the unvaccinated.
2b) However, we know in reality that many of our societal benefits elude and societal burdens compound in minority or lower socioeconomic parts of our society. This includes higher percentages of comorbidities, multi-generational homes (Inc those where immune systems may be weakest/vaccine efficacy lowest). Also, children who are unvaccinated, and that honor system threatens children of all socioeconomic classes EVEN if mortality rates are low. Low risk does not equal no risk, and I think you'll find parents' risk tolerance is lower for their children than themselves.
2c) Those communities also have received lower allotments of vaccines and have a history of vaccine hesitancy because of government and corporate misdeeds of the past.
2d) Those individuals represent a disproportionate percentage of workers in retail, groceries, or other service jobs. While the tide has shifted and labor markets have tightened a bit because workers have a bit more power, IN GENERAL these workers do not have real economic power and cannot just refuse to work or push for more airtight protections.
*** sidebar:
This is what the states stripping additional unemployment rights are trying to undo - stripping away the most tangible power and upward wage pressure your average non-union worker has held in decades.
***
3. Given those workers don't have power to control their working conditions or the luxury of refusing to work, and given there are real macro issues in our welfare, Healthcare, et all systems that put many of those individuals (or their families, unvaccinated children, etc) at disproportionate risk, I can imagine that me advertising that I am considerate of their circumstances - if any, or whatever they might be - might put them at ease. This would be just as true if I chose not to be vaccinated.
Addendum: it's a goddamn piece of cloth; why is this so hard for us?
But I am fully vaccinated so the possibility of me getting anyone sick in a store situation is almost zero.
I just don't understand why the "follow the science" crowd is no longer following the science.
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I don't think he's suggesting that not wearing a mask is discourteous. He just considers is a courtesy to others who may feel anxiety around those who are maskless. You're free to choose differently.
FWIW, defining what is and isn't courteous by "what is required" is odd. You're not required to hold the door open for others, or say "please" and "thank you," either. It's still courteous, though.
Well I agree with your second point. I have no idea why mask wearing is even in the same discussion though.
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GB Warrior, I’m going to disagree a bit. The vaccine is available to virtually all who want it.
The vast majority of those who are not vaccinated have made the choice to not get the shots. The reason is simple - politics.
Look at a state-by-state vaccination rate and this is glaringly obvious. Blue states are at the top of the list; red states are at the bottom. Just a simple fact.
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I just don't understand why the "follow the science" crowd is no longer following the science.
I don't think they're saying that they continue to wear a mask because they're concerned with spreading the virus, post-vaccination. They're wearing it to reduce potential anxiety in others, who have no idea whether they're vaccinated or not.
And I don't think they're suggesting everyone must follow suit or are critical of those who don't. It's a personal choice they're making to reduce potential discomfort in others.
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GB Warrior, I’m going to disagree a bit. The vaccine is available to virtually all who want it.
The vast majority of those who are not vaccinated have made the choice to not get the shots. The reason is simple - politics.
Look at a state-by-state vaccination rate and this is glaringly obvious. Blue states are at the top of the list; red states are at the bottom. Just a simple fact.
There are a lot of people with political motivations to be sure, but there are plenty of anti-vaxxers out there whose reasoning isn't political.
Even before COVID, 11% of Americans said vaccines are more dangerous than the diseases they prevent.
https://www.usnews.com/news/healthiest-communities/articles/2020-01-14/survey-fewer-people-now-support-vaccinating-their-kids-than-in-2001
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But I am fully vaccinated so the possibility of me getting anyone sick in a store situation is almost zero.
I just don't understand why the "follow the science" crowd is no longer following the science.
Because employees are still going to have to wear masks in some places. Because my 14 year old only has one shot on board. Because I don't want to be the .1% who might pass it along even though I have had it and had two shots. I have already infected one family member, it costs me nothing to take appropriate steps for a few more weeks to avoid doing it again. My personal need to mask will end in my mind on June 23, when my 14 year old is 14 days past his second shot.
But honestly, I have never felt it to be a burden. And I am probably going to be one of those employees required to wear a mask whenever we go on an alarm through the end of the year. So, to me, it is being courteous to others to wear the mask until all are able to cast it aside.
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Because employees are still going to have to wear masks in some places. Because my 14 year old only has one shot on board. Because I don't want to be the .1% who might pass it along even though I have had it and had two shots. I have already infected one family member, it costs me nothing to take appropriate steps for a few more weeks to avoid doing it again. My personal need to mask will end in my mind on June 23, when my 14 year old is 14 days past his second shot.
But honestly, I have never felt it to be a burden. And I am probably going to be one of those employees required to wear a mask whenever we go on an alarm through the end of the year. So, to me, it is being courteous to others to wear the mask until all are able to cast it aside.
Cool. So it's your choice. It's not "common courtesy."
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I fully respect someone's right to wear a mask. I also expect them to respect my right not to as a fully vaccinated person in full compliance with CDC guidelines. That pretty much ends it for me. Life is better when it's simple.
Now how 'bout dem Warriors?!
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Now how 'bout dem Warriors?!
Tough loss to the Grizz.
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Tough loss to the Grizz.
;D
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There are a lot of people with political motivations to be sure, but there are plenty of anti-vaxxers out there whose reasoning isn't political.
Even before COVID, 11% of Americans said vaccines are more dangerous than the diseases they prevent.
https://www.usnews.com/news/healthiest-communities/articles/2020-01-14/survey-fewer-people-now-support-vaccinating-their-kids-than-in-2001
Of course. But the majority of refusers are for political reasons.
I don’t think we’re disagreeing, but just looking at 2 different reasons.
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Cool. So it's your choice. It's not "common courtesy."
it's a choice, but the wrong one if you run into any individual who disagrees with you, then you are expected to adhere to "common courtesy" as that person defines it.
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it's a choice, but the wrong one if you run into any individual who disagrees with you, then you are expected to adhere to "common courtesy" as that person defines it.
Right. “Common courtesy” implies a societal norm. But this is most definitely not that.
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Of course. But the majority of refusers are for political reasons.
I don’t think we’re disagreeing, but just looking at 2 different reasons.
Interestingly, the biggest current difference is socioeconomic class which occurs across every other demographic.
https://twitter.com/DLeonhardt/status/1396808622349324290?s=19
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Interestingly, the biggest current difference is socioeconomic class which occurs across every other demographic.
https://twitter.com/DLeonhardt/status/1396808622349324290?s=19
You just added a 3rd reason.
This is the problem with chat boards. Making a point makes it seem like you are discounting other points of view, when, in reality, you are just adding to a discussion - not contradicting it.
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I fully respect someone's right to wear a mask. I also expect them to respect my right not to as a fully vaccinated person in full compliance with CDC guidelines. That pretty much ends it for me. Life is better when it's simple.
Now how 'bout dem Warriors?!
Ultimate Warriors
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Right. “Common courtesy” implies a societal norm. But this is most definitely not that.
Right! But my original post (which your argued against), I was talking about "common courtesy" depending on where I was. Seems like you just want to either argue, or not follow "common courtesy"
my post:
Because it means people are being respectful of the comfort level of those around them?
I travel quite a bit even after the new guidance, and in some places most people are still wearing masks. In others not many are (I assume they are vaccinated). I follow the crowd - it's not that hard for me to mask up - and when in Rome....
your reply:
How is it being "respectful of the comfort level for those around them?" If the vaccinated who are asymptomatic don't spread the disease, it's just a false sense of comfort.
Sorry but if masks aren't required by the place of business, then I am not wearing them given my vaccination status. It has nothing to do with disrespecting someone else or making them feel less comfortable.
Listen, I don't care what people do. I'm not arguing you should do what I do. You just want to call people out because they don't follow your personal rules. And that's not very courteous.
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Wearing a mask after vaccination is like a male wearing a condom, when with his wife, after a vasectomy, hey?
My 7 and 4 year olds will be wearing masks for the foreseeable future. If they have to, I will continue to be a good example and follow suit.
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Listen, I don't care what people do. I'm not arguing you should do what I do. You just want to call people out because they don't follow your personal rules.
False. I am not arguing you should do what I do either. I am arguing that tower's initial description of wearing masks when it is not required of me is "common courtesy." It is not. It is a personal choice.
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Pretty good little synopsis (IMHO) by the NYT's David Leonhardt:
For unvaccinated adults indoors or in close conversation outdoors, the costs of a mask are vastly lower than the risks from Covid. But the trade-offs are different in most outdoor settings, and they are different for children. The Covid risks for children are similar to those from a normal flu.
There does not appear to be much scientific reason that campers and counselors, or most other people, should wear a mask outdoors all summer. Telling them to do so is an example of extreme caution — like staying out of the ocean to avoid sharks — that seems to have a greater cost than benefit.
The C.D.C., as I’ve written before, is an agency full of dedicated people trying their best to keep Americans healthy. Walensky, a widely admired infectious-diseases expert, is one of them. Yet more than once during this pandemic, C.D.C. officials have acted as if extreme caution has no downsides.
Everything has downsides. And it is the job of scientific experts and public-health officials to help the rest of us think clearly about the benefits and costs of our choices.
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False. I am not arguing you should do what I do either. I am arguing that tower's initial description of wearing masks when it is not required of me is "common courtesy." It is not. It is a personal choice........that is courteous
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Pretty good little synopsis (IMHO) by the NYT's David Leonhardt:
For unvaccinated adults indoors or in close conversation outdoors, the costs of a mask are vastly lower than the risks from Covid. But the trade-offs are different in most outdoor settings, and they are different for children. The Covid risks for children are similar to those from a normal flu.
There does not appear to be much scientific reason that campers and counselors, or most other people, should wear a mask outdoors all summer. Telling them to do so is an example of extreme caution — like staying out of the ocean to avoid sharks — that seems to have a greater cost than benefit.
The C.D.C., as I’ve written before, is an agency full of dedicated people trying their best to keep Americans healthy. Walensky, a widely admired infectious-diseases expert, is one of them. Yet more than once during this pandemic, C.D.C. officials have acted as if extreme caution has no downsides.
Everything has downsides. And it is the job of scientific experts and public-health officials to help the rest of us think clearly about the benefits and costs of our choices.
I agree with you on the CDC. Yes, they are too cautious. No, they aren’t going to think outside the box and take chances for that very reason. They are a gov’t agency. They are beholden to Congress. Like most gov’t agencies, they are risk averse.
They really have no choice. If they take any risk and it doesn’t pan out, there will be people in Congress out for blood to try to make themselves look good.
The CDC is full of very smart people, but they all have to tow the line.
When Trump closed the borders, I would guess they all knew what a futile, useless gesture that was. But they are not in a position to challenge the president. If Glow goes nuts over them, think what Bunker Boy would do.
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What I dislike about any government agency Jockey is when they let their better judgement get unduly swayed by political forces. I strongly believe that's happened to an extreme over the last 14 months at the CDC, both under the prior and current administrations. It fosters mistrust among the citizenry, exactly where we are now. And please let us not get into a back and forth about who's dad can beat the other's up. Let's agree that's not productive.
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It's a study from the University of Washington you moron.
You are completely reality-proofed and no facts or evidence will ever have the ability to penetrate your shell of intentional ignorance.
so what! because i choose not to believe your "facts or evidence" tells me i'm on the right track.
oh, and those anger issues of yours? nPr might have a study showing the elastic on your mask is cutting of the blood supply to your melon
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What I dislike about any government agency Jockey is when they let their better judgement get unduly swayed by political forces. I strongly believe that's happened to an extreme over the last 14 months at the CDC, both under the prior and current administrations. It fosters mistrust among the citizenry, exactly where we are now. And please let us not get into a back and forth about who's dad can beat the other's up. Let's agree that's not productive.
I think it has happened, too. But not to an extreme and not any more than with their past actions. They ARE risk averse. That is because they are dependent on Congress for their funding.
In a field like disease and epidemiology, you can never be right 100% of the time. But when they are not right, there are people in Congress that are ready to pounce.
The great thinkers in society would never accomplish what they have if they were part of the gov’t. And I don’t mean that as a knock on the government.
Finally, thanks for the thoughtful response. I don’t think we disagree - overall - as much as it sometimes seems.
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so what! because i choose not to believe your "facts or evidence" tells me i'm on the right track.
oh, and those anger issues of yours? nPr might have a study showing the elastic on your mask is cutting of the blood supply to your melon
(https://i.giphy.com/media/3o751RXSjpayxoKUrC/giphy.webp)
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What I dislike about any government agency Jockey is when they let their better judgement get unduly swayed by political forces. I strongly believe that's happened to an extreme over the last 14 months at the CDC, both under the prior and current administrations. It fosters mistrust among the citizenry, exactly where we are now. And please let us not get into a back and forth about who's dad can beat the other's up. Let's agree that's not productive.
I am not invalidating your thoughts or positions on the current policy. I will say that it rings hollow that you show up and express this in the last month.
Also I’m not really sure what exactly about the current policy you disagree with. Maybe I missed the specifics. A lot of banter has crept into this area.
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I agree with you on the CDC. Yes, they are too cautious. No, they aren’t going to think outside the box and take chances for that very reason. They are a gov’t agency. They are beholden to Congress. Like most gov’t agencies, they are risk averse.
They really have no choice. If they take any risk and it doesn’t pan out, there will be people in Congress out for blood to try to make themselves look good.
The CDC is full of very smart people, but they all have to tow the line.
When Trump closed the borders, I would guess they all knew what a futile, useless gesture that was. But they are not in a position to challenge the president. If Glow goes nuts over them, think what Bunker Boy would do.
Good point about being risk averse.
The then-president actually didn't close the borders.
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I am not invalidating your thoughts or positions on the current policy. I will say that it rings hollow that you show up and express this in the last month.
Also I’m not really sure what exactly about the current policy you disagree with. Maybe I missed the specifics. A lot of banter has crept into this area.
Well, back at the time my interest in MU basketball was at a practically nil so I spent very little time here, among other reasons. Doesn't mean I didn't have an opinion. Just wasn't expressed here.
And actually I largely agree with the current and evolving policy, especially in the last 15 days or so. I will agree with Jockey that governmental agencies are by nature 'risk averse', and I'll add, overly bureaucratic. That's one reason why I'm such a 'small government' type.
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so what! because i choose not to believe your "facts or evidence" tells me i'm on the right track.
The first step is admitting your problem. Unfortunately you'll never take the second step.
As I said, reality-proofed. You were probably pretty upset about the Bowling Green Massacre though.
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Well, back at the time my interest in MU basketball was at a practically nil so I spent very little time here, among other reasons. Doesn't mean I didn't have an opinion. Just wasn't expressed here.
And actually I largely agree with the current and evolving policy, especially in the last 15 days or so. I will agree with Jockey that governmental agencies are by nature 'risk averse', and I'll add, overly bureaucratic. That's one reason why I'm such a 'small government' type.
Fair enough...