MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: pacearrow02 on March 17, 2021, 09:44:34 AM
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Wojo will be retained. So instead of dreaming about who a new coach could be I’ve been spending the last couple days dreaming about the possibility below. Starting lineup/Depth chart at each position of:
PG:Carton/Mitchell
SG: Elliot/Carton
SF: Lewis/(tbd)
PF: Battle/Lewis
C: Garcia/Aidoo/Oso
Lewis needs to improve outside shot and handle. Garcia needs 15 lbs of muscle and work on finishing around the rim.
Plug in some transfers in the backcourt who are good ball handlers and shooters and we’re onto something. Last piece is an assistant with specialty in establishing an actual offense. If Wojo puts aside his ego and let’s that assistant take over implementing the offense I feel good about heading into next year.
Lot of if’s in the above scenario but we’re a couple transfers and some internal player development away from being real good imo.
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Wojo will be retained. So instead of dreaming about who a new coach could be I’ve been spending the last couple days dreaming about the possibility below. Starting lineup/Depth chart at each position of:
PG:Carton/Mitchell
SG: Elliot/Carton
SF: Lewis/(tbd)
PF: Battle/Lewis
C: Garcia/Aidoo/Oso
Lewis needs to improve outside shot and handle. Garcia needs 15 lbs of muscle and work on finishing around the rim.
Plug in some transfers in the backcourt who are good ball handlers and shooters and we’re onto something. Last piece is an assistant with specialty in establishing an actual offense. If Wojo puts aside his ego and let’s that assistant take over implementing the offense I feel good about heading into next year.
Lot of if’s in the above scenario but we’re a couple transfers and some internal player development away from being real good imo.
You think the defense was bad a few years ago?
Yikes
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If I had to place a bet, my money would be on Wojo returning. But there is no way to predict the roster, regardless of who the coach is.
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If I had to place a bet, my money wod be on Wojo returning. But there is no way to predict the roster, regardless of who the coach is.
💯 the offseason transfer insanity has just begun so I agree whole heartedly. The above roster makeup is based off the rumors we’re hearing as of this morning.
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Wojo will be retained. So instead of dreaming about who a new coach could be I’ve been spending the last couple days dreaming about the possibility below. Starting lineup/Depth chart at each position of:
PG:Carton/Mitchell
SG: Elliot/Carton
SF: Lewis/(tbd)
PF: Battle/Lewis
C: Garcia/Aidoo/Oso
Lewis needs to improve outside shot and handle. Garcia needs 15 lbs of muscle and work on finishing around the rim.
Plug in some transfers in the backcourt who are good ball handlers and shooters and we’re onto something. Last piece is an assistant with specialty in establishing an actual offense. If Wojo puts aside his ego and let’s that assistant take over implementing the offense I feel good about heading into next year.
Lot of if’s in the above scenario but we’re a couple transfers and some internal player development away from being real good imo.
I may have missed something, but who is Battle?
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I may have missed something, but who is Battle?
Stretch 4 transfer from GW who we seem to be high on his list.
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I may have missed something, but who is Battle?
A thin forward who was good on a really bad George Washington team.
Good shooter but doesn’t do much else. Think along the lines of a mid major Brenden Bailey. Prototypical Wojo guy.
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A thin forward who was good on a really bad George Washington team.
Good shooter but doesn’t do much else. Think along the lines of a mid major Brenden Bailey. Prototypical Wojo guy.
One way to describe his game I suppose.
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A thin forward who was good on a really bad George Washington team.
Good shooter but doesn’t do much else. Think along the lines of a mid major Brenden Bailey. Prototypical Wojo guy.
Could end up being an all-timer, hey?
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"A more likely scenario" followed by a lot of "ifs" is not something I'm looking forward to. Could just as easily say "What if we lose 1-2 more players?" and "What if they aren't replaced by better transfers?" and "What if the transfers don't have enough time to pick up Wojo's complex systems /s" and "What if there's 1-2 injuries next year?", etc. We're going to have a very short bench and we're going to have a lot of "tired legs" come the second round robin.
Due to a culture of transfers, Wojo has dug himself into a deep, deep hole.
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Could end up being an all-timer, hey?
This is not meant to disparage him, but anecdotally as a cbb fan, guys who aren’t high major recruited players who don’t dominate every game on bad teams rarely are difference makers when they move up a level of competition.
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Wojo will be retained. So instead of dreaming about who a new coach could be I’ve been spending the last couple days dreaming about the possibility below. Starting lineup/Depth chart at each position of:
PG:Carton/Mitchell
SG: Elliot/Carton
SF: Lewis/(tbd)
PF: Battle/Lewis
C: Garcia/Aidoo/Oso
Lewis needs to improve outside shot and handle. Garcia needs 15 lbs of muscle and work on finishing around the rim.
Plug in some transfers in the backcourt who are good ball handlers and shooters and we’re onto something. Last piece is an assistant with specialty in establishing an actual offense. If Wojo puts aside his ego and let’s that assistant take over implementing the offense I feel good about heading into next year.
Lot of if’s in the above scenario but we’re a couple transfers and some internal player development away from being real good imo.
Don’t waste your time on topic A. Waste your time on my just as meaningless topic B.
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Don’t waste your time on topic A. Waste your time on my just as meaningless topic B.
Discussion on roster makeup of players who are actually on the team and other transfers we’ve been linked to is meaningless? I didn’t say the topic of wojo getting canned was meaningless either, just not likely.
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I do believe that Wojo stays, most of the core players return, and MU is a net winner in the transfer pool. But for DJ, transfers are rarely impact players.
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Did battle commit? I would just caution against the hatching of chickens and counting.
Our needs are: C, shooter, ball handler.
Currently it looks like what we need/should be pursuing/have pursued are:
Cam'ron Fletcher (handler, sparkplug scoring)- Offered already
Tre Mitchell (versatile center with outside game; strong interior presence)- Unclear if we've reached out
Jamison Battle (shooter, handler)- Offered and in top 2 to contact
Seth Lundy (scorer, but had a down year but could be teh BB role that we needed this year)- Offered
2021 kids:
Kordell Charles (IMG, feels like a Jimmy type guy, but haven't seen much of his jumper).
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Did battle commit? I would just caution against the hatching of chickens and counting.
Our needs are: A new head coach
Fixed it for you.
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Did battle commit? I would just caution against the hatching of chickens and counting.
Our needs are: C, shooter, ball handler.
Currently it looks like what we need/should be pursuing/have pursued are:
Cam'ron Fletcher (handler, sparkplug scoring)- Offered already
Tre Mitchell (versatile center with outside game; strong interior presence)- Unclear if we've reached out
Jamison Battle (shooter, handler)- Offered and in top 2 to contact
Seth Lundy (scorer, but had a down year but could be teh BB role that we needed this year)- Offered
2021 kids:
Kordell Charles (IMG, feels like a Jimmy type guy, but haven't seen much of his jumper).
Like your list above! And yes while I’m definitely counting my chickens a little early since he hasn’t committed, I think it’s fair to say however based off his comments it feels like we’re at least in the drivers seat for him.
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Probably belongs in the transfers thread, but in addition to not counting, I'd (personally) be measured with my courting until next Tuesday, when another 50+ teams have finished their season (NIT too), coaching changes start heating up and you can go after the best options to suit your team.
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Thank you for you reasonableness. As a long-time Warrior fan, I really expect Wojo to be back next year.
Let's be realistic. Since Coach McGuire retired following the 1977 NCAA Championship, there have been eight head basketball coaches in 44 years. Of that group, two have been fired, two retired or resigned and three left for other universities. The eighth is Wojo. The average tenure is 5.5 years, which Wojo already has exceeded. In the 44 years, we have fallen from the bluest of bluebloods to what this year was an also-ran in what was a mediocre conference. Only for one year did we sniff anything close to what we expected in Coach McGuire's time.
To fire Wojo now is to go back into the deep hinterlands with, under the best case scenario, a three-year return to where we are now. And, given our track record, we run the risk that this year might be a high point. I'm not sure I'm ready for that yet.
My view is that the program has been mismanaged badly. We had so much and, candidly, still do, going for us. Our reputation was first rate. We're in a usually great conference and our fans have supported us through thick and thin. The ingredients are here to win and the implication of winning is so great for Marquette's future away from basketball and athletics that I can't understand how anyone can tolerate anything but excellence.
That off my chest, Marquette will have Wojo back because we have the foundation for something good, if it is managed correctly (which it wasn't this year). The BOT inevitably will look to such Bluebloods as Duke, Kentucky and Louisville as three examples of teams that floundered this year because of Covid-19 related issues. They'll rationalize that we lost practice early in the season, lost conditioning and drilling last summer and had limited chance to convert the core of our team, Carton, Garcia and Lewis, into top-flite college players. They'll contend that the group we have coming in will augment what's already in place quite well and give Wojo the leash to go recruit high-quality transfers or a JuCo or two.
I've said before and still believe Wojo has a sales job ahead of him this summer. He MUST BE front and center in selling the program to its constituencies -- the fans that buy tickets to the FiServ, the students who need to show up, the alumni who unite around a good program and the administration that, foolheartedly or not, put our fortunes in Wojo's hands. He's going to have to sell us that Marquette has more than fine young men. The sales pitch will be on how good the team can be, what we should expect from our Warriors in 2021-2022 and how we should measure him.
I'm sure Wojo holds the team accountable, to some degree. But the measure this year MUST BE that results matter. You can play well but the nonsense that cost us several games this year MUST STOP. You players either do what you're paid for (yes, they're paid in a barter transaction), or you'll sit. In one regard he's got to do what he never before did in basically benching some hotshot that might think he's above discipline (are you listening, Henry?)
There's not a whole lot of confidence here that any of this will happen. But dammit, I hope I'm wrong because we don't need yet another rebuilding project.
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Thank you for you reasonableness. As a long-time Warrior fan, I really expect Wojo to be back next year.
Let's be realistic. Since Coach McGuire retired following the 1977 NCAA Championship, there have been eight head basketball coaches in 44 years. Of that group, two have been fired, two retired or resigned and three left for other universities. The eighth is Wojo. The average tenure is 5.5 years, which Wojo already has exceeded. In the 44 years, we have fallen from the bluest of bluebloods to what this year was an also-ran in what was a mediocre conference. Only for one year did we sniff anything close to what we expected in Coach McGuire's time.
To fire Wojo now is to go back into the deep hinterlands with, under the best case scenario, a three-year return to where we are now. And, given our track record, we run the risk that this year might be a high point. I'm not sure I'm ready for that yet.
My view is that the program has been mismanaged badly. We had so much and, candidly, still do, going for us. Our reputation was first rate. We're in a usually great conference and our fans have supported us through thick and thin. The ingredients are here to win and the implication of winning is so great for Marquette's future away from basketball and athletics that I can't understand how anyone can tolerate anything but excellence.
That off my chest, Marquette will have Wojo back because we have the foundation for something good, if it is managed correctly (which it wasn't this year). The BOT inevitably will look to such Bluebloods as Duke, Kentucky and Louisville as three examples of teams that floundered this year because of Covid-19 related issues. They'll rationalize that we lost practice early in the season, lost conditioning and drilling last summer and had limited chance to convert the core of our team, Carton, Garcia and Lewis, into top-flite college players. They'll contend that the group we have coming in will augment what's already in place quite well and give Wojo the leash to go recruit high-quality transfers or a JuCo or two.
I've said before and still believe Wojo has a sales job ahead of him this summer. He MUST BE front and center in selling the program to its constituencies -- the fans that buy tickets to the FiServ, the students who need to show up, the alumni who unite around a good program and the administration that, foolheartedly or not, put our fortunes in Wojo's hands. He's going to have to sell us that Marquette has more than fine young men. The sales pitch will be on how good the team can be, what we should expect from our Warriors in 2021-2022 and how we should measure him.
I'm sure Wojo holds the team accountable, to some degree. But the measure this year MUST BE that results matter. You can play well but the nonsense that cost us several games this year MUST STOP. You players either do what you're paid for (yes, they're paid in a barter transaction), or you'll sit. In one regard he's got to do what he never before did in basically benching some hotshot that might think he's above discipline (are you listening, Henry?)
There's not a whole lot of confidence here that any of this will happen. But dammit, I hope I'm wrong because we don't need yet another rebuilding project.
Very well said, my friend.
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Very well said, my friend.
I disagree. Our best case scenario in 3 years is to finish 10th in a bad league and not have all that promising of a future ahead? I mean c’mon. Don’t want to go through another rebuild? What’s even being built right now?
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I disagree. Our best case scenario in 3 years is to finish 10th in a bad league and not have all that promising of a future ahead? I mean c’mon. Don’t want to go through another rebuild? What’s even being built right now?
Bob Dukiet
Need I say more?
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Thank you for you reasonableness. As a long-time Warrior fan, I really expect Wojo to be back next year.
Let's be realistic. Since Coach McGuire retired following the 1977 NCAA Championship, there have been eight head basketball coaches in 44 years. Of that group, two have been fired, two retired or resigned and three left for other universities. The eighth is Wojo. The average tenure is 5.5 years, which Wojo already has exceeded. In the 44 years, we have fallen from the bluest of bluebloods to what this year was an also-ran in what was a mediocre conference. Only for one year did we sniff anything close to what we expected in Coach McGuire's time.
To fire Wojo now is to go back into the deep hinterlands with, under the best case scenario, a three-year return to where we are now. And, given our track record, we run the risk that this year might be a high point. I'm not sure I'm ready for that yet.
My view is that the program has been mismanaged badly. We had so much and, candidly, still do, going for us. Our reputation was first rate. We're in a usually great conference and our fans have supported us through thick and thin. The ingredients are here to win and the implication of winning is so great for Marquette's future away from basketball and athletics that I can't understand how anyone can tolerate anything but excellence.
That off my chest, Marquette will have Wojo back because we have the foundation for something good, if it is managed correctly (which it wasn't this year). The BOT inevitably will look to such Bluebloods as Duke, Kentucky and Louisville as three examples of teams that floundered this year because of Covid-19 related issues. They'll rationalize that we lost practice early in the season, lost conditioning and drilling last summer and had limited chance to convert the core of our team, Carton, Garcia and Lewis, into top-flite college players. They'll contend that the group we have coming in will augment what's already in place quite well and give Wojo the leash to go recruit high-quality transfers or a JuCo or two.
I've said before and still believe Wojo has a sales job ahead of him this summer. He MUST BE front and center in selling the program to its constituencies -- the fans that buy tickets to the FiServ, the students who need to show up, the alumni who unite around a good program and the administration that, foolheartedly or not, put our fortunes in Wojo's hands. He's going to have to sell us that Marquette has more than fine young men. The sales pitch will be on how good the team can be, what we should expect from our Warriors in 2021-2022 and how we should measure him.
I'm sure Wojo holds the team accountable, to some degree. But the measure this year MUST BE that results matter. You can play well but the nonsense that cost us several games this year MUST STOP. You players either do what you're paid for (yes, they're paid in a barter transaction), or you'll sit. In one regard he's got to do what he never before did in basically benching some hotshot that might think he's above discipline (are you listening, Henry?)
There's not a whole lot of confidence here that any of this will happen. But dammit, I hope I'm wrong because we don't need yet another rebuilding project.
I agree with your first points, but disagree completely with your last about keeping Wojo. THere's no reason for this to be a 3-year rebuild if you hire the right coach. Alabama, holder of 0 final fours, fired Avery Johnson after 4 years of above .500 ball and now are a 2-seed under Nate Oats, who was a home run hire, who Marquette should have hired 2 offseasons ago. If Wojo is kept this offseason, this makes the rebuild stretch out even longer because of just holding on to an already sunken cost instead of cutting your losses (already two (or more) years too late)
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I disagree. Our best case scenario in 3 years is to finish 10th in a bad league and not have all that promising of a future ahead? I mean c’mon. Don’t want to go through another rebuild? What’s even being built right now?
Best case scenario if we fire Wojo now. Yes.
New coaches - even those who ultimately do well - frequently take a step or two back before moving forward again. The roster is more unsettled than usual, a new system is being implemented, and even the most demanding fans give the coach a mulligan for a while. The rare exceptions are established high major coaches like Pitino, but there is NO chance MU goes after someone with his baggage. Since MU would almost certainly hire a long-time assistant or a HC who has no high major head coaching experience, I'd expect a regression or - at best - a status quo for a while.
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I agree with your first points, but disagree completely with your last about keeping Wojo. THere's no reason for this to be a 3-year rebuild if you hire the right coach. Alabama, holder of 0 final fours, fired Avery Johnson after 4 years of above .500 ball and now are a 2-seed under Nate Oats, who was a home run hire, who Marquette should have hired 2 offseasons ago. If Wojo is kept this offseason, this makes the rebuild stretch out even longer because of just holding on to an already sunken cost instead of cutting your losses (already two (or more) years too late)
I agree with you that we need to cut our losses now. But claiming that they should have fired Wojo and hired Oats two years ago is completely Monday morning quarterbacking. Firing him two years ago was never going to happen.
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Bob Dukiet
Need I say more?
You say Wojo needs to be a salesman, but he has NEVER played that role at Marquette. Crean was a salesman, and a damn good one. Wojo is not just going to pick up and do it after all this time, and he’s too far in the hole with the fans for anybody to buy it if he tried.
And aside from one comment a few years ago where he said “this will be a program that wins in March,” he has never spoken of postseason expectations in his press conferences. Actually, one time he said, “The only expectations we have are the ones we have internally.” What a prick. I’d like to see him give that answer now. But, Steele never asks him about Tourney prospects or lack thereof in the Zoom pressers; the question is avoided altogether.
If Wojo is retained, I expect more of the same land of milk and honey BS the program has fed us since he got here. Nothing in terms of how the on floor product is marketed will change.
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I agree with your first points, but disagree completely with your last about keeping Wojo. THere's no reason for this to be a 3-year rebuild if you hire the right coach. Alabama, holder of 0 final fours, fired Avery Johnson after 4 years of above .500 ball and now are a 2-seed under Nate Oats, who was a home run hire, who Marquette should have hired 2 offseasons ago. If Wojo is kept this offseason, this makes the rebuild stretch out even longer because of just holding on to an already sunken cost instead of cutting your losses (already two (or more) years too late)
Brother Monkey:
Alabama demands something we seemingly don't from our program -- EXCELLENCE.
Therein lies the problem. I have zero confidence in the people who would lead the search to find a coach who will meet your's and my expectations. Recall my comments about mismanagement and then think what this charade of a leadership team would do if they had to replace Wojo.
My fear is we would end up with a coach who would make us long for the days of Wojo.
Win Every Day has to be more than a cute slogan. IT HAS TO MEAN SOMETHING TANGIBLE.
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Best case scenario if we fire Wojo now. Yes.
New coaches - even those who ultimately do well - frequently take a step or two back before moving forward again. The roster is more unsettled than usual, a new system is being implemented, and even the most demanding fans give the coach a mulligan for a while. The rare exceptions are established high major coaches like Pitino, but there is NO chance MU goes after someone with his baggage. Since MU would almost certainly hire a long-time assistant or a HC who has no high major head coaching experience, I'd expect a regression or - at best - a status quo for a while.
I can take a 2-3 year rebuild if there’s optimism, which we have none of right now. Crean’s second year was fun because you could see that he was bringing in a different caliber of player than Deane did, and the program was going places. That kind of rebuild sounds fun and fresh right about now. Most fans, I think, would agree at this point.
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You say Wojo needs to be a salesman, but he has NEVER played that role at Marquette. Crean was a salesman, and a damn good one. Wojo is not just going to pick up and do it after all this time, and he%u2019s too far in the hole with the fans for anybody to buy it if he tried.
And aside from one comment a few years ago where he said %u201Cthis will be a program that wins in March,%u201D he has never spoken of postseason expectations in his press conferences. Actually, one time he said, %u201CThe only expectations we have are the ones we have internally.%u201D What a prick. I%u2019d like to see him give that answer now. But, Steele never asks him about Tourney prospects or lack thereof in the Zoom pressers; the question is avoided altogether.
If Wojo is retained, I expect more of the same land of milk and honey BS the program has fed us since he got here. Nothing in terms of how the on floor product is marketed will change.
Brother Verbal:
The underlying theme of what I'm arguing is we're at an inflection point. You're right, Wojo has never done any of what I'm calling for him to do. But if he doesn't go out and sell the program, we're dead meat next year.
Yes, I know, Coach K doesn't sell Duke. And, you know what, if we were in 1978 or even 1979, Wojo wouldn't have to sell Marquette either. But, it's 2021 and we suck. Coach, whether you realize it or not, you're selling a high performance car with a Ford Pinto gasoline tank. We've got the pieces but they don't seem to fit. You have to do what it takes to run the car at 130 and make sure the damn gasoline tank doesn't explode.
Bottom line: Either he wants to be the next Coach Al or he doesn't! If he does, he better start selling and he damn well better hold people accountable. That's what a head coach does.
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Um, folks, MU was 13-14 this year had no offense at all and a very poor defensive system. Probably you could go across the street to the Jez Rez and find several guys who could coach the talent MU has (and can attract) to a better record than 13-14. You could pick damn near anyone and NOT REGRESS at this point.
It is important to find the right guy and MU needs to do that, but all this talk of regression is old-school. With easier transfers overall, grad transfers, selective JUCO's, and recruiting the best player(s) from WI, MN, MI, and (god forbid) IL, MU can gather enough talent to do better than 13-14.
A good coach coming in would also recognize that Carton and Garcia and Lewis are special and would do their best to keep them.
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Thank you for you reasonableness. As a long-time Warrior fan, I really expect Wojo to be back next year.
Let's be realistic. Since Coach McGuire retired following the 1977 NCAA Championship, there have been eight head basketball coaches in 44 years. Of that group, two have been fired, two retired or resigned and three left for other universities. The eighth is Wojo. The average tenure is 5.5 years, which Wojo already has exceeded. In the 44 years, we have fallen from the bluest of bluebloods to what this year was an also-ran in what was a mediocre conference. Only for one year did we sniff anything close to what we expected in Coach McGuire's time.
To fire Wojo now is to go back into the deep hinterlands with, under the best case scenario, a three-year return to where we are now. And, given our track record, we run the risk that this year might be a high point. I'm not sure I'm ready for that yet.
My view is that the program has been mismanaged badly. We had so much and, candidly, still do, going for us. Our reputation was first rate. We're in a usually great conference and our fans have supported us through thick and thin. The ingredients are here to win and the implication of winning is so great for Marquette's future away from basketball and athletics that I can't understand how anyone can tolerate anything but excellence.
That off my chest, Marquette will have Wojo back because we have the foundation for something good, if it is managed correctly (which it wasn't this year). The BOT inevitably will look to such Bluebloods as Duke, Kentucky and Louisville as three examples of teams that floundered this year because of Covid-19 related issues. They'll rationalize that we lost practice early in the season, lost conditioning and drilling last summer and had limited chance to convert the core of our team, Carton, Garcia and Lewis, into top-flite college players. They'll contend that the group we have coming in will augment what's already in place quite well and give Wojo the leash to go recruit high-quality transfers or a JuCo or two.
I've said before and still believe Wojo has a sales job ahead of him this summer. He MUST BE front and center in selling the program to its constituencies -- the fans that buy tickets to the FiServ, the students who need to show up, the alumni who unite around a good program and the administration that, foolheartedly or not, put our fortunes in Wojo's hands. He's going to have to sell us that Marquette has more than fine young men. The sales pitch will be on how good the team can be, what we should expect from our Warriors in 2021-2022 and how we should measure him.
I'm sure Wojo holds the team accountable, to some degree. But the measure this year MUST BE that results matter. You can play well but the nonsense that cost us several games this year MUST STOP. You players either do what you're paid for (yes, they're paid in a barter transaction), or you'll sit. In one regard he's got to do what he never before did in basically benching some hotshot that might think he's above discipline (are you listening, Henry?)
There's not a whole lot of confidence here that any of this will happen. But dammit, I hope I'm wrong because we don't need yet another rebuilding project.
VP/Sales: Woj, I like you. Everyone likes you. But, sales goals are sales goals and your revenue is down...again. We’re gonna have to let you go. Billy here will see you out. Sally will have your office items packed and shipped by weeks end. DePaul Manufacturing is looking for a guy. Give em a call. I’m happy to be a reference.
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Thank you for you reasonableness. As a long-time Warrior fan, I really expect Wojo to be back next year.
Let's be realistic. Since Coach McGuire retired following the 1977 NCAA Championship, there have been eight head basketball coaches in 44 years. Of that group, two have been fired, two retired or resigned and three left for other universities. The eighth is Wojo. The average tenure is 5.5 years, which Wojo already has exceeded. In the 44 years, we have fallen from the bluest of bluebloods to what this year was an also-ran in what was a mediocre conference. Only for one year did we sniff anything close to what we expected in Coach McGuire's time.
To fire Wojo now is to go back into the deep hinterlands with, under the best case scenario, a three-year return to where we are now. And, given our track record, we run the risk that this year might be a high point. I'm not sure I'm ready for that yet.
My view is that the program has been mismanaged badly. We had so much and, candidly, still do, going for us. Our reputation was first rate. We're in a usually great conference and our fans have supported us through thick and thin. The ingredients are here to win and the implication of winning is so great for Marquette's future away from basketball and athletics that I can't understand how anyone can tolerate anything but excellence.
That off my chest, Marquette will have Wojo back because we have the foundation for something good, if it is managed correctly (which it wasn't this year). The BOT inevitably will look to such Bluebloods as Duke, Kentucky and Louisville as three examples of teams that floundered this year because of Covid-19 related issues. They'll rationalize that we lost practice early in the season, lost conditioning and drilling last summer and had limited chance to convert the core of our team, Carton, Garcia and Lewis, into top-flite college players. They'll contend that the group we have coming in will augment what's already in place quite well and give Wojo the leash to go recruit high-quality transfers or a JuCo or two.
I've said before and still believe Wojo has a sales job ahead of him this summer. He MUST BE front and center in selling the program to its constituencies -- the fans that buy tickets to the FiServ, the students who need to show up, the alumni who unite around a good program and the administration that, foolheartedly or not, put our fortunes in Wojo's hands. He's going to have to sell us that Marquette has more than fine young men. The sales pitch will be on how good the team can be, what we should expect from our Warriors in 2021-2022 and how we should measure him.
I'm sure Wojo holds the team accountable, to some degree. But the measure this year MUST BE that results matter. You can play well but the nonsense that cost us several games this year MUST STOP. You players either do what you're paid for (yes, they're paid in a barter transaction), or you'll sit. In one regard he's got to do what he never before did in basically benching some hotshot that might think he's above discipline (are you listening, Henry?)
There's not a whole lot of confidence here that any of this will happen. But dammit, I hope I'm wrong because we don't need yet another rebuilding project.
To summarize this inane post - Wojo has badly mismanaged the program and we pretty much suck but let’s stick it out because we could suck even more.
That’s what you call a real winners mentality.
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I've said before and still believe Wojo has a sales job ahead of him this summer. He MUST BE front and center in selling the program to its constituencies -- the fans that buy tickets to the FiServ, the students who need to show up, the alumni who unite around a good program and the administration that, foolheartedly or not, put our fortunes in Wojo's hands. He's going to have to sell us that Marquette has more than fine young men. The sales pitch will be on how good the team can be, what we should expect from our Warriors in 2021-2022 and how we should measure him.
If Wojo sold MU basketball on Amazon there would be nothing but 1 star reviews describing what a terrible product it has become.
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Starting lineup/Depth chart at each position of:
PG:Carton/Mitchell
SG: Elliot/Carton
SF: Lewis/(tbd)
PF: Battle/Lewis
C: Garcia/Aidoo/Oso
With Wojo’s coaching ability, this team is last place in the Big East bad (unless DePaul goes full implosion in the first year of their rebuild the way Wojo did).
This team will get annihilated defensively by any competent big man.
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With Wojo’s coaching ability, this team is last place in the Big East bad (unless DePaul goes full implosion in the first year of their rebuild the way Wojo did).
This team will get annihilated defensively by any competent big man.
It’s also a pretty optimistic roster even as is. Wonder if Mitchell reconsiders now that Killings is gone.
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To summarize this inane post - Wojo has badly mismanaged the program and we pretty much suck but let’s stick it out because we could suck even more.
That’s what you call a real winners mentality.
Nope, not at all.
It's called, I don't trust the current administration to do better than what we have.
Do you?
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Nope, not at all.
It's called, I don't trust the current administration to do better than what we have.
Do you?
Only posting on scoop can fix things. The administration is waiting to read the exact right post to make a move
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Only posting on scoop can fix things. The administration is waiting to read the exact right post to make a move
The administration thinks MUScoop is a malt shop next to Ben & Jerry's.
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This thread was a nice idea, Pace, but it's too difficult for most to resist turning every thread into FIRE EVIL WOJO!
I mean, it happens in Superbar threads about TV shows, and in COVID-board threads about masks, so it was inevitable here.
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This thread was a nice idea, Pace, but it's too difficult for most to resist turning every thread into FIRE EVIL WOJO!
I mean, it happens in Superbar threads about TV shows, and in COVID-board threads about masks, so it was inevitable here.
Do you enjoy being a condescending a-hole? The team is bad and results will likely be extremely bad next year. Are we supposed to kid ourselves and set ourselves up for further disappointment?
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Do you enjoy being a condescending a-hole? The team is bad and results will likely be extremely bad next year. Are we supposed to kid ourselves and set ourselves up for further disappointment?
No but maybe having a discussion about firing Wojo in the dozen fire Wojo topics instead of people injecting the same old line into every topic would be nice.
I want Wojo gone.
Discussing what the holes would be if Wojo stays and what options we might have to fill them would be nice, but the same usuals can't help themselves...
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Why isn’t anyone talking about Jose? I think he’ll be a big time glue guy and contribute major minutes. He showed great promise at the end of the season and the guys all hustle. Maybe the biggest pickup since JFB transferred in. Guys like him make us so much more DANGEROUS. He’s a great player, but a better person. Only down side is he can’t play in NYC.
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Why isn’t anyone talking about Jose?
Because no one thinks he will be here next year.
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Why isn’t anyone talking about Jose? I think he’ll be a big time glue guy and contribute major minutes. He showed great promise at the end of the season and the guys all hustle. Maybe the biggest pickup since JFB transferred in. Guys like him make us so much more DANGEROUS. He’s a great player, but a better person. Only down side is he can’t play in NYC.
Care to elaborate? Personal safety reasons?
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Why isn’t anyone talking about Jose? I think he’ll be a big time glue guy and contribute major minutes. He showed great promise at the end of the season and the guys all hustle. Maybe the biggest pickup since JFB transferred in. Guys like him make us so much more DANGEROUS. He’s a great player, but a better person. Only down side is he can’t play in NYC.
Well we know he likes to shoot - Making shots is an entirely different story.
He seems to be a much better fit at the Gardner Webb level.
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Why would Jose leave? He’s a walking bucket. George Webb was crushed when he left!
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Why would Jose leave? He’s a walking bucket. George Webb was crushed when he left!
Pic of disappointment at George Webb right after Jose left:
(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/journaltimes.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/e/0a/e0a812e2-fda7-56d4-b86e-92a81ae049c9/5bc91eabd2072.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C796[img])[/img]
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Was anyone ever served in a reasonable amount of time at George Webb? Every meal, no matter the time of day or how basic it was, took 45 minutes minimum. Worst service ever
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Why would Jose leave? He’s a walking bucket. George Webb was crushed when he left!
This is interesting. Is that you, Jose?
Honestly, tho...I hope he sticks around. Guys with experience on the bench is never a negative. Every year we end up not having enough bodies. Maybe Wojo will actually use the scholarships he's allotted next season.
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Honestly, tho...I hope he sticks around. Guys with experience on the bench is never a negative.
I brought this up yesterday (I think), but wouldn't Jose have to sit out if he transferred again? I don't see him doing that.
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I brought this up yesterday (I think), but wouldn't Jose have to sit out if he transferred again? I don't see him doing that.
Most seem to think the immediate transfer rule will be enacted this summer. Not sure if that impacts guys that have already transferred once differently or not.
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Most seem to think the immediate transfer rule will be enacted this summer. Not sure if that impacts guys that have already transferred once differently or not.
It's a one time transfer without sitting out.
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Thank you for you reasonableness. As a long-time Warrior fan, I really expect Wojo to be back next year.
Let's be realistic. Since Coach McGuire retired following the 1977 NCAA Championship, there have been eight head basketball coaches in 44 years. Of that group, two have been fired, two retired or resigned and three left for other universities. The eighth is Wojo. The average tenure is 5.5 years, which Wojo already has exceeded. In the 44 years, we have fallen from the bluest of bluebloods to what this year was an also-ran in what was a mediocre conference. Only for one year did we sniff anything close to what we expected in Coach McGuire's time.
To fire Wojo now is to go back into the deep hinterlands with, under the best case scenario, a three-year return to where we are now. And, given our track record, we run the risk that this year might be a high point. I'm not sure I'm ready for that yet.
My view is that the program has been mismanaged badly. We had so much and, candidly, still do, going for us. Our reputation was first rate. We're in a usually great conference and our fans have supported us through thick and thin. The ingredients are here to win and the implication of winning is so great for Marquette's future away from basketball and athletics that I can't understand how anyone can tolerate anything but excellence.
That off my chest, Marquette will have Wojo back because we have the foundation for something good, if it is managed correctly (which it wasn't this year). The BOT inevitably will look to such Bluebloods as Duke, Kentucky and Louisville as three examples of teams that floundered this year because of Covid-19 related issues. They'll rationalize that we lost practice early in the season, lost conditioning and drilling last summer and had limited chance to convert the core of our team, Carton, Garcia and Lewis, into top-flite college players. They'll contend that the group we have coming in will augment what's already in place quite well and give Wojo the leash to go recruit high-quality transfers or a JuCo or two.
I've said before and still believe Wojo has a sales job ahead of him this summer. He MUST BE front and center in selling the program to its constituencies -- the fans that buy tickets to the FiServ, the students who need to show up, the alumni who unite around a good program and the administration that, foolheartedly or not, put our fortunes in Wojo's hands. He's going to have to sell us that Marquette has more than fine young men. The sales pitch will be on how good the team can be, what we should expect from our Warriors in 2021-2022 and how we should measure him.
I'm sure Wojo holds the team accountable, to some degree. But the measure this year MUST BE that results matter. You can play well but the nonsense that cost us several games this year MUST STOP. You players either do what you're paid for (yes, they're paid in a barter transaction), or you'll sit. In one regard he's got to do what he never before did in basically benching some hotshot that might think he's above discipline (are you listening, Henry?)
There's not a whole lot of confidence here that any of this will happen. But dammit, I hope I'm wrong because we don't need yet another rebuilding project.
This is the largest barrel of slurp for Wojo-Dukiet in a long time. Gag worthy.
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Bob Dukiet
Need I say more?
Wojo-Dukiet.
Nuff said.
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Was anyone ever served in a reasonable amount of time at George Webb? Every meal, no matter the time of day or how basic it was, took 45 minutes minimum. Worst service ever
Go to the Menomonee Falls location in the 1970s. You'll get great service.
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Wojo will be retained. So instead of dreaming about who a new coach could be I’ve been spending the last couple days dreaming about the possibility below. Starting lineup/Depth chart at each position of:
PG:Carton/Mitchell
SG: Elliot/Carton
SF: Lewis/(tbd)
PF: Battle/Lewis
C: Garcia/Aidoo/Oso
Lewis needs to improve outside shot and handle. Garcia needs 15 lbs of muscle and work on finishing around the rim.
Plug in some transfers in the backcourt who are good ball handlers and shooters and we’re onto something. Last piece is an assistant with specialty in establishing an actual offense. If Wojo puts aside his ego and let’s that assistant take over implementing the offense I feel good about heading into next year.
Lot of if’s in the above scenario but we’re a couple transfers and some internal player development away from being real good imo.
I still see Garcia at the 4. I think that's where he wants to be. Plus I see Jones in the mix...
PG:Carton/Mitchell
SG: Elliot/(Transfer)/Jones
SF: Ellioit/(tbd)
PF: Garcia/Lewis
C: Aidoo/Lewis/Oso
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Pic of disappointment at George Webb right after Jose left:
(https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/journaltimes.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/e/0a/e0a812e2-fda7-56d4-b86e-92a81ae049c9/5bc91eabd2072.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C796[img])[/img]
Should be 13 Wins Celebration Menu on the back poster or did MU have to vacate a win because Jose ate Breeding's half time snack?
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Wojo has:
Never held his team accountable
Never / NEVER “ sold “ the team as he has absolutely no personality
Has never had a team improve at the end of the year
But if he changes all of that MU could
Finish what ?? 7th place next year
Great. Can’t wait
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Was anyone ever served in a reasonable amount of time at George Webb? Every meal, no matter the time of day or how basic it was, took 45 minutes minimum. Worst service ever
obviously you were never served by Debbie at the Ham-n-Egger at bar-time.
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This is the largest barrel of slurp for Wojo-Dukiet in a long time. Gag worthy.
Yawn.
I for one appreciate a legitimately thought out, reasoned, grammatically sound discussion, even if I disagree with it. It certainly beats the tired old, one-line, drum beating of negativity and insults that appear to be your preferred communication method.
The complete inability of people to have meaningful discussion even when diametrically opposed in viewpoints is depressing.
And, now, off my high horse and back to the shadows.
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Do you enjoy being a condescending a-hole? The team is bad and results will likely be extremely bad next year. Are we supposed to kid ourselves and set ourselves up for further disappointment?
I didn’t realize you needed to turn a not-about-firing-Wojo thread into the 407th Fire Wojo thread.
Management regrets the error.
Nice job breaking Scoop’s very first rule, though, and reminding everybody what you’re about.
Carry on.
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It's a one time transfer without sitting out.
I guess I always figured that meant one time post-rule change, as theoretically those guys have already sat out a year for their transfer (covid waivers aside).
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Yawn.
I for one appreciate a legitimately thought out, reasoned, grammatically sound discussion, even if I disagree with it. It certainly beats the tired old, one-line, drum beating of negativity and insults that appear to be your preferred communication method.
The complete inability of people to have meaningful discussion even when diametrically opposed in viewpoints is depressing.
And, now, off my high horse and back to the shadows.
Yes your high horse needs a rest. And I do not need to write a thesis to criticize Wojo-Dukiet. His performance does not warrant it. And the Wojo-Dukiet slurper excuse makers only warrant a few words. And as the old saying goes____ you and the green horse you rode in on
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I guess I always figured that meant one time post-rule change, as theoretically those guys have already sat out a year for their transfer (covid waivers aside).
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/28757527/ncaa-transfer-proposal-guide-means-coaches-players-saying
If a student-athlete has already transferred prior to this new rule, would they be able to gain immediate eligibility if they transfer again?
The working group believes athletes who have already transferred previously, or otherwise do not qualify for this new one-time waiver guideline, should still have the ability to go through the current waiver process to gain immediate eligibility. The group states the waiver process, however, should be limited to truly extenuating and unique circumstances, and would not be granted for anything other than a unique situation.
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Yes your high horse needs a rest. And I do not need to write a thesis to criticize Wojo-Dukiet. His performance does not warrant it. And the Wojo-Dukiet slurper excuse makers only warrant a few words. And as the old saying goes____ you and the green horse you rode in on
I’m not familiar with the green horse. I am familiar with your fascination with slurping.
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I didn’t realize you needed to turn a not-about-firing-Wojo thread into the 407th Fire Wojo thread.
Management regrets the error.
Nice job breaking Scoop’s very first rule, though, and reminding everybody what you’re about.
Carry on.
Maybe I should find a creative way around rule number 1 next time by being exasperatingly condescending in every single post like you..
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You should also be familiar with the green weenie
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obviously you were never served by Debbie at the Ham-n-Egger at bar-time.
I don’t think so. I was at MU 2006-2010.
Guessing the Ham-n-Egger was before my time?
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I don’t think so. I was at MU 2006-2010.
Guessing the Ham-n-Egger was before my time?
Just looked at the current GW menu.
1/3 lb burgers? Back in the day, there was maybe 2 oz of 'meat'....
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You should also be familiar with the green weenie
In this case, the “green weenie” is us keeping Wojo.
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You should also be familiar with the green weenie
I am. The green horse is new. Does it slurp? How does it slurp or is it slurped? Who does it slurp? Who slurps it? Can it be ridden while slurping or being slurped? The green horse intrigues me as a slurper
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You can lead a green horse to water but ya can't make it slurp, aina?
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Can the green horse put its head up its ass? Could it take a dump on Wojo's forehead?
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Should be 13 Wins Celebration Menu on the back poster or did MU have to vacate a win because Jose ate Breeding's half time snack?
During the off season here at MU Scoop , we tend to see a lot of the same promotional techniques employed by George Webb. Especially the last few days. Love that retro feel
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Can the green horse put its head up its ass? Could it take a dump on Wojo's forehead?
Also good questions. I think the green horse should be the new mascot.
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I am. The green horse is new. Does it slurp? How does it slurp or is it slurped? Who does it slurp? Who slurps it? Can it be ridden while slurping or being slurped? The green horse intrigues me as a slurper
The best part of willie constantly using 'slurp' is that he thinks it's clever.
When really, he is probably saying a bit more about himself than he'd care to admit.
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Also good questions. I think the green horse should be the new mascot.
I'd have to assume it's a relative of Bluecifer:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/90/Blucifer_Sculpture.png)
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I'd have to assume it's a relative of Bluecifer:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/90/Blucifer_Sculpture.png)
That would be a kick ass mascot to rope out at Fiserv. Imagine Adele coming out to coach riding something like that?
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That would be a kick ass mascot to rope out at Fiserv. Imagine Adele coming out to coach riding something like that?
If we're gonna use a horse mascot, we should consider Miley Cyrus as coach.
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If we're gonna use a horse mascot, we should consider Miley Cyrus as coach.
Do you feel we need to take a Wrecking Ball to the program?
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What kind of uniforms would Miley insist on?
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Do you feel we need to take a Wrecking Ball to the program?
Yep. Gotta Start All Over.
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The best part of willie constantly using 'slurp' is that he thinks it's clever.
When really, he is probably saying a bit more about himself than he'd care to admit.
What i post is about Wojo-Dukiet most often. And you will never cut it as a psychologist, even an amateur.
For the sake of clarification slurpers drink Wojo-Dukiet kool aid, and can't get enough even after the program has slid way down under the guy.
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What i post is about Wojo-Dukiet most often. And you will never cut it as a psychologist, even an amateur.
For the sake of clarification slurpers drink Wojo-Dukiet kool aid, and can't get enough even after the program has slid way down under the guy.
What about the green horse
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Eco reference or St. Patrick's reference.
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Thank you for you reasonableness. As a long-time Warrior fan, I really expect Wojo to be back next year.
Let's be realistic. Since Coach McGuire retired following the 1977 NCAA Championship, there have been eight head basketball coaches in 44 years. Of that group, two have been fired, two retired or resigned and three left for other universities. The eighth is Wojo. The average tenure is 5.5 years, which Wojo already has exceeded. In the 44 years, we have fallen from the bluest of bluebloods to what this year was an also-ran in what was a mediocre conference. Only for one year did we sniff anything close to what we expected in Coach McGuire's time.
To fire Wojo now is to go back into the deep hinterlands with, under the best case scenario, a three-year return to where we are now. And, given our track record, we run the risk that this year might be a high point. I'm not sure I'm ready for that yet.
My view is that the program has been mismanaged badly. We had so much and, candidly, still do, going for us. Our reputation was first rate. We're in a usually great conference and our fans have supported us through thick and thin. The ingredients are here to win and the implication of winning is so great for Marquette's future away from basketball and athletics that I can't understand how anyone can tolerate anything but excellence.
That off my chest, Marquette will have Wojo back because we have the foundation for something good, if it is managed correctly (which it wasn't this year). The BOT inevitably will look to such Bluebloods as Duke, Kentucky and Louisville as three examples of teams that floundered this year because of Covid-19 related issues. They'll rationalize that we lost practice early in the season, lost conditioning and drilling last summer and had limited chance to convert the core of our team, Carton, Garcia and Lewis, into top-flite college players. They'll contend that the group we have coming in will augment what's already in place quite well and give Wojo the leash to go recruit high-quality transfers or a JuCo or two.
I've said before and still believe Wojo has a sales job ahead of him this summer. He MUST BE front and center in selling the program to its constituencies -- the fans that buy tickets to the FiServ, the students who need to show up, the alumni who unite around a good program and the administration that, foolheartedly or not, put our fortunes in Wojo's hands. He's going to have to sell us that Marquette has more than fine young men. The sales pitch will be on how good the team can be, what we should expect from our Warriors in 2021-2022 and how we should measure him.
I'm sure Wojo holds the team accountable, to some degree. But the measure this year MUST BE that results matter. You can play well but the nonsense that cost us several games this year MUST STOP. You players either do what you're paid for (yes, they're paid in a barter transaction), or you'll sit. In one regard he's got to do what he never before did in basically benching some hotshot that might think he's above discipline (are you listening, Henry?)
There's not a whole lot of confidence here that any of this will happen. But dammit, I hope I'm wrong because we don't need yet another rebuilding project.
I've seen a million threads about new coaches but I gotta agree with the three years to get back to now given our program status. Is that good? Any coach who is really good will leave anyway.
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I don’t think so. I was at MU 2006-2010.
Guessing the Ham-n-Egger was before my time?
’80’s, maybe still there in the 90’s. Debbie could back down Davante any day. She didn’t like the tip, she’d fire it across the dining room.
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I don’t think so. I was at MU 2006-2010.
Guessing the Ham-n-Egger was before my time?
Can confirm
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obviously you were never served by Debbie at the Ham-n-Egger at bar-time.
That was our 2 a.m. (or later) go-to spot senior year.
I'm told that before it was the Ham-n-Egger, it was called "The Buttery." If so, that was before MY time.
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What about the green horse
My post containing the green horse also applies toward you. Nuff said.
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My post containing the green horse also applies toward you. Nuff said.
We’re sending the green horse as a gift to the administration. Check the underboard for contribution instructions
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What kind of uniforms would Miley insist on?
Deep scoop-necked jerseys with fringed chaps for warmup pants.
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Rong, a uni compatible four twerkin', hey?
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If we're gonna use a horse mascot, we should consider Miley Cyrus as coach.
I haven't been able to look at a foam finger the same because of her.
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We’re sending the green horse as a gift to the administration. Check the underboard for contribution instructions
I agree that admin does need the green horse. They have been riding it for quite a while.
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Why isn’t anyone talking about Jose? I think he’ll be a big time glue guy and contribute major minutes. He showed great promise at the end of the season and the guys all hustle. Maybe the biggest pickup since JFB transferred in. Guys like him make us so much more DANGEROUS. He’s a great player, but a better person. Only down side is he can’t play in NYC.
LOL - Nailed this one...
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LOL - Nailed this one...
Pretty sure he was kidding
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Pretty sure he was kidding
Pretty sure panda knew that.
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Pretty sure panda knew that.
If you say so. If true, then his post really doesn't make sense to me.
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If you say so. If true, then his post really doesn't make sense to me.
Chess vs. Checkers mr aggie
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In Texas, the chess boards are all in Austin.
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In Texas, the chess boards are all in Austin.
Oh no, they play checkers too. They just do it ironically.