MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: MuggsyB on January 23, 2021, 09:14:45 PM
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This is a really bad loss and it sure sounds like we played a piss poor game. The overall offensive stats are putrid, especially on the interior. Not a lot of FT's either. Without seeing it I would bet our h-c offense was a s-show with overdribbling, poor passing, too much predictability, and zero patience. What exactly are we running offensively other than the high screen. occasional weave and heave, and apparently dump down to the post? Where's the movement off the ball or drive and kicks?
I'm not sure the season is salvageable as far as an NCAA bid but where would you start if we're going to get on track and move the needle in a positive direction? Or are we simply nowhere near competing for a top half BEast spot? From my perspective we have top 5 talent but this is a rough result.
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This is a really bad loss and it sure sounds like we played a piss poor game. The overall offensive stats are putrid, especially on the interior. Not a lot of FT's either. Without seeing it I would bet our h-c offense was a s-show with overdribbling, poor passing, too much predictability, and zero patience. What exactly are we running offensively other than the high screen. occasional weave and heave, and apparently dump down to the post? Where's the movement off the ball or drive and kicks?
I'm not sure the season is salvageable as far as an NCAA bid but where would you start if we're going to get on track and move the needle in a positive direction? Or are we simply nowhere near competing for a top half BEast spot? From my perspective we have top 5 talent but this is a rough result.
The team needs to get back to moving the ball and running crisp offensive plays.
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The team needs to get back to moving the ball and running crisp offensive plays.
It's strange to me we would have a full week to prepare and apparently played with no discipline or poise whatsoever. To a very mediocre team mind you. Extremely disappointing.
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It's strange to me we would have a full week to prepare and apparently played with no discipline or poise whatsoever. To a very mediocre team mind you. Extremely disappointing.
Muggsy, reading your posts and are you truly not sure what/ who the root of all the problems is you’re correctly pointing out? Because it’s quite simple. Don’t overthink this.
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Where do we go from here?
Probably the nit and another disappointing season of wojo?
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Muggsy, reading your posts and are you truly not sure what/ who the root of all the problems is you’re correctly pointing out? Because it’s quite simple. Don’t overthink this.
I get it...I'm just really frustrated.
I just watched the final 5 mins. That Theo g-tend was one of the dumbest plays I have ever seen at that juncture of the game. WTH was he thinking? Smh.
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I get it...I'm just really frustrated.
I just watched the final 5 mins. That Theo g-tend was one of the dumbest plays I have ever seen at that juncture of the game. WTH was he thinking? Smh.
Right. From a four year senior too.
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I get it...I'm just really frustrated.
I just watched the final 5 mins. That Theo g-tend was one of the dumbest plays I have ever seen at that juncture of the game. WTH was he thinking? Smh.
That was an inexcusable play.
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Right. From a four year senior too.
In your life have you ever seen anything like that FBM?? That ball was 5 feet from going in. It would be the equivalent of a tennis player hitting a ball on a fly, back to the other side, that was 15 feet out. No words can describe how ridiculous that was.
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In the same way a player might commit a ‘frustration foul’ I think that’s what happened with Theo’s goaltend. He’d had a number number of his own shots blocked, and really only had one successful play on offense all night. I think he trailed behind the play, and fully committed himself to blocking the shot. He couldn’t stop himself, with the frustration of the whole night, and gave up an unnecessary goaltend.
My complaint all night was bad choices by all players. Everyone, throughout the game.
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TL;DR but to answer the question posed by the title of the thread - you fire the coach and rebuild as soon as administratively possible.
There is no other answer.
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final four eh?
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In the same way a player might commit a ‘frustration foul’ I think that’s what happened with Theo’s goaltend. He’d had a number number of his own shots blocked, and really only had one successful play on offense all night. I think he trailed behind the play, and fully committed himself to blocking the shot. He couldn’t stop himself, with the frustration of the whole night, and gave up an unnecessary goaltend.
Yep. Theo is not used to being upstaged in shot-blocking.
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In the same way a player might commit a ‘frustration foul’ I think that’s what happened with Theo’s goaltend. He’d had a number number of his own shots blocked, and really only had one successful play on offense all night. I think he trailed behind the play, and fully committed himself to blocking the shot. He couldn’t stop himself, with the frustration of the whole night, and gave up an unnecessary goaltend.
My complaint all night was bad choices by all players. Everyone, throughout the game.
That may be but that cannot happen at that stage in the game. And btw trying to block everything can get you in trouble defensively. It was an unusually stupid play to put it mildly.
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final four eh?
NIT?
That was a fun run in 1995
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The team had been flirting with bad losses recently against Georgetown and St. John’s. DePaul finally got them but it was bound to happen eventually with the way they were playing. There’s a good number of games left so I’m just waiting to see where they end up at the end of the year instead of gnashing teeth after every bounce of the rim that doesn’t go MU’s way.
Tonight might be too much to overcome though and should actually be an argument why DePaul should be kicked out of the league. No conference team should suffer that devastating of a blow for just one game. It was Depauls first road win in conference in nearly 2 years (feb 9, 2019). It was buy game level bad tonight. We were eaten by the cupcake.
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Tonight might be too much to overcome though and should actually be an argument why DePaul should be kicked out of the league. No conference team should suffer that devastating of a blow for just one game.
DePaul should be kicked out of the league because the consequences when we lose to them are too dire?? Wtf??
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The team had been flirting with bad losses recently against Georgetown and St. John’s. DePaul finally got them but it was bound to happen eventually with the way they were playing. There’s a good number of games left so I’m just waiting to see where they end up at the end of the year instead of gnashing teeth after every bounce of the rim that doesn’t go MU’s way.
There might be a good number of games left. Can't take that as a given this year.
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DePaul should be kicked out of the league because the consequences when we lose to them are too dire?? Wtf??
A bit of hyperbole maybe, but I don’t think it should be understated how bad of a team Wojo and co lost to tonight.
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We were eaten by the cupcake.
You have a bit of poetry right there.
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That was an inexcusable play.
Par for the course for Theo. After 4 years he’d still rather hunt blocked shots than play solid defense and rebound the basketball. Low bball IQ.
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That Theo g-tend was one of the dumbest plays I have ever seen at that juncture of the game. WTH was he thinking? Smh.
Theo goaltends after the whistle all the time. It's like he's allergic to seeing the ball go through the hoop. There's been times where I've been worried about him doing it an on impending and-one and that was a really dumb one tonight. I wonder if his habit of always swatting the ball away just got the best of him.
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Theo goaltends after the whistle all the time. It's like he's allergic to seeing the ball go through the hoop. There's been times where I've been worried about him doing it an on impending and-one and that was a really dumb one tonight. I wonder if his habit of always swatting the ball away just got the best of him.
I've always thought Theo did his dead ball goaltends for psychological reasons, like he doesn't want his opponent to see the ball go through the hoop, even if it wouldn't have counted. It's become insufferable and the coaches should tell him to knock it off. My guess? With this coaching staff, he'll just keep on doing it.
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Theo goaltends after the whistle all the time. It's like he's allergic to seeing the ball go through the hoop. There's been times where I've been worried about him doing it an on impending and-one and that was a really dumb one tonight. I wonder if his habit of always swatting the ball away just got the best of him.
Theo has improved some as a basketball player. 120 games, 1000 practices and 4 years will do that. But he’s still brain dead out there, still trying to prove his manhood at the expense of the team. A real coach would have stopped this nonsense by January of his freshman year. But at MU the players are in charge.
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Some changes.
Start Greg over Jamil. Greg had some swagger last game. Greg is someone who can handle the ball who could help the guards when the opposing team starts to pressure us in the back court.
Draw up more plays for Dawson.
More paint touches.
I would say value the ball more, but that appears to be a hopeless cause.
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Theo has improved some as a basketball player. 120 games, 1000 practices and 4 years will do that. But he’s still brain dead out there, still trying to prove his manhood at the expense of the team. A real coach would have stopped this nonsense by January of his freshman year. But at MU the players are in charge.
Agree completely. The turnover issue that plagues this program under him is another example of players not being held accountable. That should be an easy problem to fix, but it stays a profound issue because there’s been no culture established that we are going to take care of the ball and treat every possession as precious.
This is a guy who has earned nothing in his life really. All of his experience came at one program that doesn’t resemble MU’s in the least and has been the blue blood of blue bloods under K. They get so much high level talent just because who they are, they don’t have to sweat the details like turnovers nearly as much because they’re going to win 20-25 games on their talent alone every season. It isn’t until about the S16 that talent probably won’t carry them to wins by itself anymore. And that’s why I’ve been so frustrated with Wojo for 4 years now. He does not / has not learned he is not at Duke anymore and adapt accordingly!! And we see the results of that. There are other examples of this besides the turnover issue.
Wojo is a total empty suit. He was a very good high school player who was blessed to have landed at a blue blood and never left there until MU. He got into high level college coaching because his mentor has a hard on for hiring former players who are loyal. Once he’s removed from that protected environment, his incompetence is laid bare for all to see. And I’ve been beating the drum he’s a loser coach for 4 years to the sneering and dismissal of this opinion here until now it’s so obvious his most ardent defenders here can’t make up stupid crap anymore to try and cover his sorry butt still.
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Par for the course for Theo. After 4 years he’d still rather hunt blocked shots than play solid defense and rebound the basketball. Low bball IQ.
Nah, he's got other things on his mind, hey?
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Some changes.
Start Greg over Jamil. Greg had some swagger last game. Greg is someone who can handle the ball who could help the guards when the opposing team starts to pressure us in the back court.
Draw up more plays for Dawson.
More paint touches.
I would say value the ball more, but that appears to be a hopeless cause.
That's exactly right, we do not value the ball. These are rec league turns and absolutely inexcusable. However. this is a team with very poor ball-handling for a tier one program. As a side note the real Muggsy could not be pressed. Tremendous handles and blow by speed. Carton has the talent to be a very effective PG but no one had zoomability like Muggs. :)
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Theo has improved a great deal and surprised the hell out of me. That said, I think his shot blocking became a negative a long time ago because it appears that is his whole focus on D. Again, hats off to him for his improvement and I do appreciate the work put in.
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guards game. just once please try playing smaller with 3 guards, jamal and either justin or dawson as the 1 big. wojo has barely tried it all year and its driving me nuts.
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guards game. just once please try playing smaller with 3 guards, jamal and either justin or dawson as the 1 big. wojo hasnt tried it all year and its driving me nuts.
We did in Omaha and it worked out pretty well.
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It's strange to me we would have a full week to prepare and apparently played with no discipline or poise whatsoever. To a very mediocre team mind you. Extremely disappointing.
Mediocre team? Try pass poor. Which puts the Wojo-Dukiet regime lower yet, say piss deplorable poverty poor.
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The team had been flirting with bad losses recently against Georgetown and St. John’s. DePaul finally got them but it was bound to happen eventually with the way they were playing. There’s a good number of games left so I’m just waiting to see where they end up at the end of the year instead of gnashing teeth after every bounce of the rim that doesn’t go MU’s way.
Tonight might be too much to overcome though and should actually be an argument why DePaul should be kicked out of the league. No conference team should suffer that devastating of a blow for just one game. It was Depauls first road win in conference in nearly 2 years (feb 9, 2019). It was buy game level bad tonight. We were eaten by the cupcake.
And therefore MU should be kicked out also.
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Agree completely. The turnover issue that plagues this program under him is another example of players not being held accountable. That should be an easy problem to fix, but it stays a profound issue because there’s been no culture established that we are going to take care of the ball and treat every possession as precious.
This is a guy who has earned nothing in his life really. All of his experience came at one program that doesn’t resemble MU’s in the least and has been the blue blood of blue bloods under K. They get so much high level talent just because who they are, they don’t have to sweat the details like turnovers nearly as much because they’re going to win 20-25 games on their talent alone every season. It isn’t until about the S16 that talent probably won’t carry them to wins by itself anymore. And that’s why I’ve been so frustrated with Wojo for 4 years now. He does not / has not learned he is not at Duke anymore and adapt accordingly!! And we see the results of that. There are other examples of this besides the turnover issue.
Wojo is a total empty suit. He was a very good high school player who was blessed to have landed at a blue blood and never left there until MU. He got into high level college coaching because his mentor has a hard on for hiring former players who are loyal. Once he’s removed from that protected environment, his incompetence is laid bare for all to see. And I’ve been beating the drum he’s a loser coach for 4 years to the sneering and dismissal of this opinion here until now it’s so obvious his most ardent defenders here can’t make up stupid crap anymore to try and cover his sorry butt still.
Agree with all of this opinion wholeheartedly. Would add one thing to your high level coaching comment; Wojo-Dukiet has taken the MU program to low level.
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This entire clusterfook is rooted in the Hausers/Howard fiasco of a couple years ago. In spite of his short comings up and until that time, there was a chance Woj could right the ship which had drifted off course. But, by giving Howard free rein, he not only lost 2 talented and experienced players, he lost his team. That carries on to this day and will going forward. He's soft, his bark has no bite and the players know it. There are no consequences for spotty play. Even worse, there are no consequences for spotty coaching. Nothing will change unless the AD makes a change or Coach K rescues one of his own, hey?
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There is a really simple evaluative questionnaire that needs to be asked regarding Wojo:
1) Are we consistently improving?
A) The answer is no. This team is a step backward in terms of wins and losses. While the talent is deep enough for this team to make a serious run at an NCAA berth, the probability we will get there this year is, after the DePaul game, about the same as Mitch Trubiskys chances of being as good as Patrick Mahomes (sorry Bear fans).
2) Where will we be in two years?
A) The talent level from this past recruiting season suggests we are positioning ourselves for a deep run in the NCAAs. Does anyone think this coach will have us in the Elite 8 or Final Four by the time Messrs. Dawson and Lewis are juniors and Mr. Carton is a senior? Again, it is doubtful.
3) What is the goal of our program?
A) This is one question that is answered differently depending on ones age and the year one was graduated from Marquette. Older alumni think we should be Duke. Younger alumni think we should be and maybe someone like Virginia, good coach, good program, mostly good, some bad years. Are either of these possible given our current situation? Again, probably not.
4) What is the mood of the fan base?
A) Excited fan bases pay money to see the program and follow it on TV. This year makes it hard to gauge how interested and excited our fan base is. After last night though, apathy will be the order of the day for non-Scoopers for the rest of the year. Ultimately, it is the cash flow to the university, especially now, that matters.
5) Do we run a clean program?
A) Yes. Next question.
Given all of these concerns, I candidly expect the university to give Wojo one more year after this one. The class coming in is decent and could be really good depending on transfers or one more recruit. Recruiting and a clean program at this juncture are the only things that have kept Wojo from being fired. It is interesting that many of the traditional powers, including Duke, North Carolina and Kentucky, are having big-time off years this year and Michigan just was shut down for two weeks. The difficulties of this year are not an excuse but may mitigate a call for action now.
Does anyone disagree?
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No I agree with you. I can't see them doing anything this year. Maybe he leaves on his own, but with the University financial situation and the fact this team is young and apparently there is another good class coming, they won't fire him.
But it could get ugly next year. You play that game in front of 18,000 and they get booed off the court.
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Disagree about one more year for Wojo-Dukiet. Now is the time.
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Disagree about one more year for Wojo-Dukiet. Now is the time.
I agree with you, but I just don't see it happening.
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18,000 folks will not pay and be present to watch this product based upon what they are hearing and seeing from the program this year, hey?
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https://youtu.be/wJVpihgwE18
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Plagarism by Mugs at its finest.....
Thats OK.....All opinions count.....Whatever board they are on.....
You do owe the author residuals.....LOL.....
I have been out of the loop......Why did you move over here?
Did Dodds piss you off.....
When he pisses me off......I just give hit $hit in plain site......
He calls me a few names.....But he knows I am right.....
No Kooaide spin on this one.....
Did WOJO try to spin this debacle.....
As was said.....We have been flirting with this for a while.....
I do not understand the no sense of urgency.....
You would think they would want to be an NCAA team......
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I would not assume so quickly that Wojo is guaranteed to return next year. There are still a lot of games left to play and - if the team plays like it did last night, and how it has been playing the past 2-3 weeks - the team will struggle to win a majority of games. If the team finishes with a losing record this season, and it is projected as of right now for that to be the case, Wojo will be the first MU head coach with multiple losing seasons (13-19, 2014-15) since Dukiet.
Bottom line, if that does end up happening, this would make the third straight year the team absolutely nose dives to close out the season. That is a red flag to any administrator. The discussions would then progress from "Well, we don't have the money to make a change right now" to "if we do not make a change right now, we could lose even more money down the road".
After last night, I actually have complete confidence that the school would make a change if this season continues this way.
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https://youtu.be/wJVpihgwE18
Love the Vietnam analogy
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This entire clusterfook is rooted in the Hausers/Howard fiasco of a couple years ago. In spite of his short comings up and until that time, there was a chance Woj could right the ship which had drifted off course. But, by giving Howard free rein, he not only lost 2 talented and experienced players, he lost his team. That carries on to this day and will going forward. He's soft, his bark has no bite and the players know it. There are no consequences for spotty play. Even worse, there are no consequences for spotty coaching. Nothing will change unless the AD makes a change or Coach K rescues one of his own, hey?
Spot on.
I think we were on an upslope with a chance to be something special until Hausershima. Once Hausershima happened, Coach Wojo was exposed for what he was, either a crappy judgment of character OR, more likely, a very bad offensive and defensive schemer who failed to effectively utilize what he had.
It’s easy to imagine what might have happened if Coach Wojo had caved following Hausershima. He might still have lost the team by baring his weakness as a leader. Or, things might not have changed. Or, maybe Dawson Garcia and/or Justin Lewis might have gone elsewhere.
Who knows, but a lot of our current misery can be traced to Hausershima and the Murray State game.
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This entire clusterfook is rooted in the Hausers/Howard fiasco of a couple years ago. In spite of his short comings up and until that time, there was a chance Woj could right the ship which had drifted off course. But, by giving Howard free rein, he not only lost 2 talented and experienced players, he lost his team. That carries on to this day and will going forward. He's soft, his bark has no bite and the players know it. There are no consequences for spotty play. Even worse, there are no consequences for spotty coaching. Nothing will change unless the AD makes a change or Coach K rescues one of his own, hey?
I've said it before, but Markus Howard, or rather Wojo's handling of Markus Howard, set the program back. Not only did it cause disfunction in the locker room during two different seasons (Hausers and Koby last year), but we were unable to recruit any other good players to play alongside him while he was here. As a result, our upperclassmen are all below average, and that lack of talent in our experienced players is starting to show as the season wears on.
I have nothing against Markus as a person, but I think he's a selfish basketball player, and I simply don't understand why Wojo was willing to sacrifice so much for one guy, when that guy never won us a single tournament game and was a huge part of the team's late season collapses his junior and senior seasons. Bottom line, it was Wojo's decision to give Markus preferential treatment, and we're still dealing with the consequences this year.
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We were eaten by the cupcake.
I'm stealing this.