MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: The Big East on January 21, 2021, 08:55:35 AM
-
If Wojo can end up with a winning season, I think he will be in the running for the Penn State Head Coach opening.
Penn State is going to be looking to bring in someone scandal free and we all know Wojo checks that box .
Penn State is in the Big Ten ,has good facilities is close to Wojo’s home town of Baltimore and can afford to pay top salary on a long term contract .So I think this would be an attractive situation for Wojo .
-
Penn State is in the Big Ten ,has good facilities is close to Wojo’s home town of Baltimore and can afford to pay top salary on a long term contract .So I think this would be an attractive situation for Wojo .
I can confirm this is true.
-
Because you want him gone, doesn’t mean that he’s leaving.
-
Because you want him gone, doesn’t mean that he’s leaving.
MU discount with Kieger there, hey? Btw, she is having a tough go at it: 2-21 in the B1G in Year 2 of their rebuild.
-
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/03620368428078925fb0a8deb767d390/tumblr_nejupaptTg1trbh6do1_400.gifv)
-
MU discount with Kieger there, hey? Btw, she is having a tough go at it: 2-21 in the B1G in Year 2 of their rebuild.
Grass isn't always greener.
But there's also a difference between the situations. The Big East is a power conference in men's, in women's they are not, especially prior to UConn women's being in. In men's we can match most schools salaries if we desire. In women's we cannot. It's just not a comparable situation between the two.
Also I don't know why TLBE is pointing out that PSU is in the B1G that's a feature not exactly an advantage or benefit or advantage. Sort of like me selling a car saying "it's blue"
-
Marquette losing a head coach to Virginia Tech created some very bad optics for the (then) present and future projections of the basketball program. If Marquette would lose its standing head coach to a program like Penn State, I shutter to think what that would do (again) moving forward.
-
Grass isn't always greener.
But there's also a difference between the situations. The Big East is a power conference in men's, in women's they are not, especially prior to UConn women's being in. In men's we can match most schools salaries if we desire. In women's we cannot. It's just not a comparable situation between the two.
Also I don't know why TLBE is pointing out that PSU is in the B1G that's a feature not exactly an advantage or benefit or advantage. Sort of like me selling a car saying "it's blue"
Meh, she's getting paid a lot more. She's probably not upset about that.
-
Marquette losing a head coach to Virginia Tech created some very bad optics for the (then) present and future projections of the basketball program. If Marquette would lose its standing head coach to a program like Penn State, I shutter to think what that would do (again) moving forward.
Jeez. I wonder who's to blame for that???
-
Meh, she's getting paid a lot more. She's probably not upset about that.
Well that's what I was saying in everything after my opening sentence
-
Grass isn't always greener.
But there's also a difference between the situations. The Big East is a power conference in men's, in women's they are not, especially prior to UConn women's being in. In men's we can match most schools salaries if we desire. In women's we cannot. It's just not a comparable situation between the two.
Also I don't know why TLBE is pointing out that PSU is in the B1G that's a feature not exactly an advantage or benefit or advantage. Sort of like me selling a car saying "it's blue"
Is this what it's come to with coach evaluations? New coach inherits a program in which the previous coach has one winning season in its final five, and win in year one or bust? I know some live in an instant gratification world, but this seems quite extreme.
Kieger was 4-14 in the Big East (without UConn) in her first MU season and did fine. She may or may not have success at Penn St., or perhaps even something in between. (I am indifferent to any of that) But let's see what happens in 4-5 years first, and be a little bit more fair in giving an evaluation.
-
Marquette losing a head coach to Virginia Tech created some very bad optics for the (then) present and future projections of the basketball program. If Marquette would lose its standing head coach to a program like Penn State, I shutter to think what that would do (again) moving forward.
Bad optics for whom? I'll give you the fan base but clearly not bad optics for recruits and I'm willing to bet that those who are CBB professionals know exactly why we 'lost' our head coach and that does not reflect poorly on MU.
-
Is this what it's come to with coach evaluations? New coach inherits a program in which the previous coach has one winning season in its final five, and win in year one or bust? I know some live in an instant gratification world, but this seems quite extreme.
Kieger was 4-14 in the Big East (without UConn) in her first MU season and did fine. She may or may not have success at Penn St., or perhaps even something in between. But let's see what happens in 4-5 years first.
Well if you read the second portion of my post I explain that there was at least two great reasons to leave MU for PSU for Keiger. Fact is that the grass is not always greener. If she's successful, good on her it was greener. If she's not, then bummer grass wasn't, as of now it's looking like a harder rebuild than MU was. Either way she made money and I'm sure will be welcomed back if she flops at PSU once Duffy leaves us for a major program.
-
Is this what it's come to with coach evaluations? New coach inherits a program in which the previous coach has one winning season in its final five, and win in year one or bust? I know some live in an instant gratification world, but this seems quite extreme.
Kieger was 4-14 in the Big East (without UConn) in her first MU season and did fine. She may or may not have success at Penn St., or perhaps even something in between. (I am indifferent to any of that) But let's see what happens in 4-5 years first, and be a little bit more fair in giving an evaluation.
She is rebuilding just like at MU with a roster full of freshman but at PSU she also had sprinkled in some transfers to bridge. No one is saying she should be fired, just that it's a tougher go in the football rich B1G where the non-revenue sports are more competitive.
I have no doubt she will be successful but it will take longer at PSU. WBB had a much stronger history there while MBB has been mediocre for years.
-
Related to the pay conversation - there's a strong current of "we can't afford to fire Wojo this year but if he voluntarily leaves, that would be great" on this board. That's kind of conveniently ignoring that Wojo is paid a little over $2M per year, which ranks about 50th nationally. For how much we talk about MU's basketball spend, its not going toward an outsized spend on the head coach right now.
Even if there weren't any financial commitments hanging out there to Wojo, could Marquette afford to just hire the best available replacement? In 2019 Oztelberger signed a deal with UNLV for $1.1/year with annual $100k increases. He would have to pay 75% of the remaining money on his contract as a buyout if he left this offseason (the date he leaves matters, but I'm assuming MU would have to hire him before the buyout drops on July 1 - https://watchstadium.com/unlv-coach-t-j-otzelberger-signs-five-year-contract-salary-incentives-buyout-04-03-2019/ (https://watchstadium.com/unlv-coach-t-j-otzelberger-signs-five-year-contract-salary-incentives-buyout-04-03-2019/)
Its just one example, but that would leave MU on the hook for a $3.15 million buyout plus a contract for at least, say, $1.5M for like 5 years. Point being, I don't think MU can afford to go out and hire TJ Otzelberger. And at that point, what are we doing? The money issue doesn't just go away if Wojo decided to leave voluntarily. If Wojo leaves, I think there's a fair chance we end up with Wardle for financial reasons (making $681k).
-
Then we can finally hire Chris Beard
-
Well if you read the second portion of my post I explain that there was at least two great reasons to leave MU for PSU for Keiger. Fact is that the grass is not always greener. If she's successful, good on her it was greener. If she's not, then bummer grass wasn't, as of now it's looking like a harder rebuild than MU was. Either way she made money and I'm sure will be welcomed back if she flops at PSU once Duffy leaves us for a major program.
In my opinion, we are years away from a Kieger evaluation discussion at Penn St., Good, bad, indifferent. She's had one completed season.
Any revenue coach is going to get 3-5 seasons, sometimes more to see what he or she can do with a program. Non-revenue often gets even more. It's common for some revenue coaches to take 3-5 seasons to build, rebuild, or even keep something going depending on the situation. If someone asked me what do I think of the job Kieger has done at PSU, my answer would be incomplet, she just got there, check back in a few seasons. A few exceptions to this are scandals or an extreme of losing every game for a few seasons, etc..
Apples to oranges. Wojo was 4-14 his first year at MU. It was understood that it was his first season at MU. Wojo has had six completed seasons, and very roughly speaking, he has MU right around 5th or 6th as a program in the current Big East. That would be fair to say. That's what he is and has been at MU as we progress through year 7. Maybe that will improve, stay similar, or get worse. But that's what his record says he is over a six year period of time at MU. It seems more reasonable for people to discuss that all they want and what they think of that, good, bsd, indifferent.
-
Related to the pay conversation - there's a strong current of "we can't afford to fire Wojo this year but if he voluntarily leaves, that would be great" on this board. That's kind of conveniently ignoring that Wojo is paid a little over $2M per year, which ranks about 50th nationally. For how much we talk about MU's basketball spend, its not going toward an outsized spend on the head coach right now.
Even if there weren't any financial commitments hanging out there to Wojo, could Marquette afford to just hire the best available replacement? In 2019 Oztelberger signed a deal with UNLV for $1.1/year with annual $100k increases. He would have to pay 75% of the remaining money on his contract as a buyout if he left this offseason (the date he leaves matters, but I'm assuming MU would have to hire him before the buyout drops on July 1 - https://watchstadium.com/unlv-coach-t-j-otzelberger-signs-five-year-contract-salary-incentives-buyout-04-03-2019/ (https://watchstadium.com/unlv-coach-t-j-otzelberger-signs-five-year-contract-salary-incentives-buyout-04-03-2019/)
Its just one example, but that would leave MU on the hook for a $3.15 million buyout plus a contract for at least, say, $1.5M for like 5 years. Point being, I don't think MU can afford to go out and hire TJ Otzelberger. And at that point, what are we doing? The money issue doesn't just go away if Wojo decided to leave voluntarily. If Wojo leaves, I think there's a fair chance we end up with Wardle for financial reasons (making $681k).
It's a lot more affordable for Wojo to leave and for us to hire TJO then it is for Wojo to be fired and for us to hire TJO. We could afford the former but probably not the latter.
That being said, Wojo will be our coach next season.
-
The "Wojo leaving for a lower tier P6 program" ship has sailed for the time being. The sample size of mediocrity is too great for a school like Penn State to paint him as an exciting hire for their fan base. It'll take 2-3 years of top half conference finishes and some NCAA Tournament wins before he's a commodity in the coaching carousel again.
-
If Wojo can end up with a winning season, I think he will be in the running for the Penn State Head Coach opening.
Penn State is going to be looking to bring in someone scandal free and we all know Wojo checks that box .
Penn State is in the Big Ten ,has good facilities is close to Wojo’s home town of Baltimore and can afford to pay top salary on a long term contract .So I think this would be an attractive situation for Wojo .
Sounds like a Herman Cain Agenda to me.
-
The "Wojo leaving for a lower tier P6 program" ship has sailed for the time being. The sample size of mediocrity is too great for a school like Penn State to paint him as an exciting hire for their fan base. It'll take 2-3 years of top half conference finishes and some NCAA Tournament wins before he's a commodity in the coaching carousel again.
Schools don't give a crap if a coach is "exciting for their fan base." High major retreads will always be a popular choice for lower level P6 programs. They have much higher floors than hiring the latest flavor of the week mid-major coach or up and coming assistant. For basketball programs with expectations like Penn State, a high floor is more important than a high ceiling.
That being said, Wojo will be our coach next season.
-
If Wojo can end up with a winning season, I think he will be in the running for the Penn State Head Coach opening.
Penn State is going to be looking to bring in someone scandal free and we all know Wojo checks that box .
Penn State is in the Big Ten ,has good facilities is close to Wojo’s home town of Baltimore and can afford to pay top salary on a long term contract .So I think this would be an attractive situation for Wojo .
just because you want something to happen doesn't mean it will.
PSU does not have better facilities than MU (Bryce-Jordan is a morgue built for hockey and then when PSU made hockey a varsity sport they built their own facility), PSU basketball is an afterthought in State College, they don't draw fans, they have no track record of success, and are notoriously cheap (Chambers was at $900K, significantly less than Wojo makes at MU). Why would it be an attractive situation for Wojo other than you wanting it to be?
-
If Wojo can end up with a winning season, I think he will be in the running for the Penn State Head Coach opening.
Penn State is going to be looking to bring in someone scandal free and we all know Wojo checks that box .
Penn State is in the Big Ten ,has good facilities is close to Wojo’s home town of Baltimore and can afford to pay top salary on a long term contract .So I think this would be an attractive situation for Wojo .
When this happens, will Gregg Marshall have spent enough time reflecting on his past behavior and rehabbing his image to be in a position to be the replacement at Marquette?
-
It is a fun theory. But in the end, just more alternative facts.
-
When this happens, will Gregg Marshall have spent enough time reflecting on his past behavior and rehabbing his image to be in a position to be the replacement at Marquette?
John Calipari might be looking for a job, too.
-
John Calipari might be looking for a job, too.
MU should call dibs
-
MU should call dibs
LOL
-
Penn State is in the Big Ten ,has good facilities is close to Wojo’s home town of Baltimore and can afford to pay top salary on a long term contract .So I think this would be an attractive situation for Wojo .
I can confirm this is true.
I actually laughed out loud at this. Well played.
-
A wet dream that would be if wojo left, however it wouldn’t solve the issue with the MU brass.
I’d feel much better if Lovell, or Scholl would send him packing as it would show they have some stones, and wouldn’t accept this 7 year train wreck any longer. With the current admin in place, I’d venture to guess it will be more of the same even if wojo did leave.
-
When this happens, will Gregg Marshall have spent enough time reflecting on his past behavior and rehabbing his image to be in a position to be the replacement at Marquette?
Did someone forget the teal?
I am pretty sure this is going to happen right after we change the team name back to "Warriors".
-
A wet dream that would be if wojo left, however it wouldn’t solve the issue with the MU brass.
I’d feel much better if Lovell, or Scholl would send him packing as it would show they have some stones, and wouldn’t accept this 7 year train wreck any longer. With the current admin in place, I’d venture to guess it will be more of the same even if wojo did leave.
It's far from a train wreck it's a 7 year (so far) sentence to purgatory. I'm all for hating on the guy but let's be intellectually honest, there's still too recruits coming in, there's still great wins. He just hasn't improved since the Ellanson year and seemingly will always remain right about this level.
-
It's far from a train wreck it's a 7 year (so far) sentence to purgatory. I'm all for hating on the guy but let's be intellectually honest, there's still too recruits coming in, there's still great wins. He just hasn't improved since the Ellanson year and seemingly will always remain right about this level.
Every year since the Ellenson year has been better than the Ellenson year. MU finished 97th in Kenpom that year. have finished between 31-53 since (32, 53, 33, 31).
Purgatory is a good way to describe it. I don't see any reason to think we'll finish worse than 60th in the future but it's hard to envision a path into the top 15 or so too.
-
Every year since the Ellenson year has been better than the Ellenson year. MU finished 97th in Kenpom that year. have finished between 31-53 since (32, 53, 33, 31).
Purgatory is a good way to describe it. I don't see any reason to think we'll finish worse than 60th in the future but it's hard to envision a path into the top 15 or so too.
We're the perennial 8 seed in the NBA playoffs...
-
Every year since the Ellenson year has been better than the Ellenson year. MU finished 97th in Kenpom that year. have finished between 31-53 since (32, 53, 33, 31).
Purgatory is a good way to describe it. I don't see any reason to think we'll finish worse than 60th in the future but it's hard to envision a path into the top 15 or so too.
Marquette has finished in the top 15 twice. In 2003 they finished 15th and in 2008 they finished 14th. If that's your goal, you aren't going to be happy with many coaches.
-
Marquette has finished in the top 15 twice. In 2003 they finished 15th and in 2008 they finished 14th. If that's your goal, you aren't going to be happy with many coaches.
It's not my goal but I think that's what most here are looking for. I'd be happy with finishes between 20-40 and winning some tournament games every few years.
If they make the tournament this year to make it 4 out of 5 years, that's a good level of success for a program like MU. Just need to string a tournament run together once in awhile.
-
if this is where were at lets all stop acting like a serious program. i get its conjecture but damn. 7 year coach in big east with lots of resources and good treatmeant from the higher ups just bounces for penn state b ball. lol dystopian soceity
-
Yeah I mean it's certainly not a train wreck. But that's not a good narrative so why not dig our head in the sand?
Also, there's literally nothing serious about this. I mean, look at who the original poster is and you should know how seriously to take this. I could do it with any number of programs that are struggling.
Hey guys, you think Wojo can close out the year strong enough for ISU to want to continue the Marquette West tradition?
-
Yeah I mean it's certainly not a train wreck. But that's not a good narrative so why not dig our head in the sand?
Also, there's literally nothing serious about this. I mean, look at who the original poster is and you should know how seriously to take this. I could do it with any number of programs that are struggling.
Hey guys, you think Wojo can close out the year strong enough for ISU to want to continue the Marquette West tradition?
I'm sure it's an unsubstantiated rumor, but PSU has an interim head coach now and will be looking to fill the position on a permanent basis after the season.
-
Wojo not going anywhere. Get over it
-
I'm sure it's an unsubstantiated rumor, but PSU has an interim head coach now and will be looking to fill the position on a permanent basis after the season.
Yes, I'm aware. Like I said, I could make up something about a bottom feeding power conference program and say hey, maybe this is our Wojo out. All you need to do is look at the OP and you'll know how serious of a possibility this is.
-
Also, I abso-freaking-lutely love that all the tough guys saying Lovell, Scholl, the administration all blow and have no balls are the exact same people who are begging to bring Brian Wardle in. That is the EXACT type of move that they claim to be scared of.
-
Yes, I'm aware. Like I said, I could make up something about a bottom feeding power conference program and say hey, maybe this is our Wojo out. All you need to do is look at the OP and you'll know how serious of a possibility this is.
Sorry - You didn't mention anything about it in your original unedited post so I thought I'd interject. As I said before, I believe it to be unsubstantiated given the source.
-
When this happens, will Gregg Marshall have spent enough time reflecting on his past behavior and rehabbing his image to be in a position to be the replacement at Marquette?
Think so. After all, he would be following the Mike McCarthy Philosophy, and he ended up on "America's Team.
-
John Calipari might be looking for a job, too.
If Calipari does need to look for a job, that will take less than 48 hours.
-
Every year since the Ellenson year has been better than the Ellenson year. MU finished 97th in Kenpom that year. have finished between 31-53 since (32, 53, 33, 31).
Purgatory is a good way to describe it. I don't see any reason to think we'll finish worse than 60th in the future but it's hard to envision a path into the top 15 or so too.
I was more pointing to the high teens/20 win season being the peak along with being a game above or below .500 in conference (Ellenson was 20 wins and 8-10 IIRC)
-
Think so. After all, he would be following the Mike McCarthy Philosophy, and he ended up on "America's Team.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/9e22542dfd17564cf8aba9767318e9a0/tenor.gif?itemid=16266011)
-
The locals were slapping the floor for Wojo in 2003.....
https://www.collegian.psu.edu/archives/article_68126c42-710a-5f21-aa7d-57c63faa298b.html
-
That is pretty funny.
-
That is pretty funny.
The article or the fact he went back 17yrs to dig up an article by one person that targeted Wojo, an article that so captured the essence of 'the locals were slapping the floor' that it got a total of 0 comments? Yeah, PSU was on FIRE for Wojo and will be now!
-
The "Wojo leaving for a lower tier P6 program" ship has sailed for the time being. The sample size of mediocrity is too great for a school like Penn State to paint him as an exciting hire for their fan base. It'll take 2-3 years of top half conference finishes and some NCAA Tournament wins before he's a commodity in the coaching carousel again.
What do you mean lower? They beat us at the Al in the NIT.
-
Penn State is in the Big Ten ,has good facilities is close to Wojo’s home town of Baltimore and can afford to pay top salary on a long term contract .So I think this would be an attractive situation for Wojo .
Washington is closer than Baltimore and I don't expect him there, either.
-
Marquette losing a head coach to Virginia Tech created some very bad optics for the (then) present and future projections of the basketball program. If Marquette would lose its standing head coach to a program like Penn State, I shutter to think what that would do (again) moving forward.
So you're saying to NoJos, don't mess with happy.
-
Washington is closer than Baltimore and I don't expect him there, either.
plus he hasn't lived in Baltimore for over 20 years. Not everyone pines to move back to where they grew up.
-
If Wojo can end up with a winning season, I think he will be in the running for the Penn State Head Coach opening.
Penn State is going to be looking to bring in someone scandal free and we all know Wojo checks that box .
Penn State is in the Big Ten ,has good facilities is close to Wojo’s home town of Baltimore and can afford to pay top salary on a long term contract .So I think this would be an attractive situation for Wojo .
Our point guard recruit from Pennsylvania could asked out of his signed letter of intent and followed Wojo to Penn St.?
Our unsigned center recruit could easily follow Wojo to Penn St.
Garcia and Lewis could also easily follow Wojo to Penn St. now that we have no sit out transfer rule.
-
It's not my goal but I think that's what most here are looking for. I'd be happy with finishes between 20-40 and winning some tournament games every few years.
If they make the tournament this year to make it 4 out of 5 years, that's a good level of success for a program like MU. Just need to string a tournament run together once in awhile.
...what do you mean when you state...’for a program like MU’?
-
Really need Steve to win the rest of the games this year. He’s all yours Penn. We can thrown in L, Scholl and Wojo as a package deal
-
Bad
Good luck on him landing another job. I hope he invested wisely.
-
Our point guard recruit from Pennsylvania could asked out of his signed letter of intent and followed Wojo to Penn St.?
Our unsigned center recruit could easily follow Wojo to Penn St.
Garcia and Lewis could also easily follow Wojo to Penn St. now that we have no sit out transfer rule.
And?
-
Bad
Good luck on him landing another job. I hope he invested wisely.
He for sure can land another solid job. Might not be a big program or even high major, but he’ll have plenty of opportunities to coach if he’s fired at MU.
-
Needs to have a winning season or this opportunity will pass