MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on January 16, 2021, 01:39:21 PM
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1. MU punched first. SJU punched back. MU righted the ship and finished strong.
2. How do you prepare for SJU? 7-8 defenders and tell them that nothing is a foul?
3. Greg was doing so good, too. Until he started taking the ball out after made baskets.
4. Koby has been told since he was 8 years old that you cannot run the baseline to inbound the ball after turnovers. He did it twice. Only called once.
5. Justin on the leading scorer in the Big East down the stretch? Bold choice, Cotton.
6. If MU had secured rebounds in traffic and not brought the ball down after offensive rebounds, they win by double digits.
7. I think the refs were getting paid by the foul today. Of course, against SJU, you want a lot of whistles, as those guys are as physical and slap-happy as any team any where.
8. Glad MU was making their free throws today.
9. Who knew that DJ could get up like that?
10. 2-0 in the stretch where it was widely agreed that MU had to make some hay. A week off to practice, unless the BEast grows a brain and starts moving some games around. NEXT!
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2-0(both on the road even if it matters less this year) against the bottom 4 so far.
Gotta just keep winning these ones.
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Good thing Julian Champagnie is no Kawhi Leonard or this would be a very different rundown.
(no knock on Champagnie, only about 5 people on the planet are)
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Great punch back and response to the 12-0 run from the crew. Didn't give up.
Lewis needs more tick. If he can consistently defend on the perimeter, Theo, Garcia, Lewis is a viable lineup.
Gotta fix the turnovers and we're an above average team.
I thought the same about putting the ball on the floor post-offensve rebound. Very frustrating. That's grade school level stuff! Finish!!
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I think Wojo rides the hot hands between Garcia, Lewis, and Theo. Lewis was better than Garcia today and therefore got more run at the end. Pretty simple.
Letting Cain dribble against the SJU pressure? Oof.
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To win with 19 turnovers and 7 blocks against (MU also had 7 blocks), is a nice road victory.
Elliott’s two inbound passes lead to 5 points, Theo’s offense block negated a three by Carton, Koby’s running baseline lead to three and I believe two of Elliott’s fouls were and ones. That’s just off top of my head. Lot of points off turnovers and not getting loose offensive and defensive balls, which were magically going to SJU.
SJU is too aggressive and fouls have hurt them in past games also. Not a long bench.
Posh Alexander is going to be a pest. The guy has energy and more energy. He had 9 points, 8 assists and 5 steals, but 4 turnovers. Nice recruit for SJU.
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When Ms. Dgies walked in, she asked, "Did Marquette win?"
My response: "I guess that's what you call it."
I was not impressed. We were up by 10 and I instinctively felt we were going to blow it. Rather than salting them away and giving our bench some time, we were struggling until the end. There isn't the killer instinct in this team or our coach. We seem to get ahead only to squander the effort we made. We seem to lack the bench strength beyond Greg Elliott to sustain momentum.
Maybe I'm imagining things, but talentwise, we're better than they are. One, maybe two of their guys impressed me but there they were, doing their best Providence imitation.
Our guys were clearly worn out toward the end of the game. The sloppy ball handling was endemic of it.
A win is a win and I'll take it but I can't say I'm optimistic about the post season.
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https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401269614
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Letting Cain dribble against the SJU pressure? Oof.
He is a disaster putting it on the floor against any opponent. Everyone is well aware of that. But he had one turnover of our 19 today. Kind of odd singling him out.
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When Ms. Dgies walked in, she asked, "Did Marquette win?"
My response: "I guess that's what you call it."
I was not impressed. We were up by 10 and I instinctively felt we were going to blow it. Rather than salting them away and giving our bench some time, we were struggling until the end. There isn't the killer instinct in this team or our coach. We seem to get ahead only to squander the effort we made. We seem to lack the bench strength beyond Greg Elliott to sustain momentum.
Maybe I'm imagining things, but talentwise, we're better than they are. One, maybe two of their guys impressed me but there they were, doing their best Providence imitation.
Our guys were clearly worn out toward the end of the game. The sloppy ball handling was endemic of it.
A win is a win and I'll take it but I can't say I'm optimistic about the post season.
Bench strength: Ummmmmm..... Lewis?
Of course SJU was going to make a run. That is who they are. Inevitable as death and taxes.
The plays that frosted me were Koby twice running the baseline after turnovers.
Cain dribbling up the floor against SJU pressure with no obvious outlet.
Greg being unable to inbound the ball. Of course, Symir was the only other guard on the floor in that stretch. Koby and DJ sitting.
The rest was just basketball. SJU is going to play physical and slap at everything. MU needed to be stronger corralling rebounds and when they got the ball near the basket.
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He is a disaster putting it on the floor against any opponent. Everyone is well aware of that. But he had one turnover of our 19 today. Kind of odd singling him out.
I'm not sure how that is and I have wondered about that in other games. I distinctly remember him getting picked in the middle of the floor against pressure, and I distinctly remember him dribbling the ball off of his own leg out of bounds.
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Could someone smarter than me explain what Garcia is doing wrong that he keeps getting blocked? I've never seen someone so tall get so many shots blocked down low.
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He isn't super strong yet and he isn't super quick. So he gets there, braces to go up, and the whole world comes to meet him. Guys in front, guys from behind. He doesn't get blocked as often when he gets the ball near the basket and still has his dribble. Then, he shows the ball, the defense reacts, and he is able to get a shot off after a hard dribble. When he dribbles to get close to the basket and then stops and tries to go up is when he gets blocked.
Another year in the weight room.
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He isn't super strong yet and he isn't super quick. So he gets there, braces to go up, and the whole world comes to meet him. Guys in front, guys from behind. He doesn't get blocked as often when he gets the ball near the basket and still has his dribble. Then, he shows the ball, the defense reacts, and he is able to get a shot off after a hard dribble. When he dribbles to get close to the basket and then stops and tries to go up is when he gets blocked.
Another year in the weight room.
Some of these things, and, also, balance. He often isn’t in a good position from a balance perspective in some of those situations. Catch high, don’t bring it down, get better balance.
These things will improve for next year.
Dawson is a very good Freshman player and talent. But he has plenty to work on with regards to pace, speed of game, decisions, strength, all kinds of things to be more consistent for 40 minutes.
Today I liked that earlier in the game he was more interested in playing high low with Lewis, getting inside than just hanging out on the perimeter. Needs to keep working inside out.
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Yup yup.
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Good thing Julian Champagnie is no Kawhi Leonard or this would be a very different rundown.
Or Adam Kunkel. Or Jimmy Nichols.
When Ms. Dgies walked in, she asked, "Did Marquette win?"
My response: "I guess that's what you call it."
I was not impressed. We were up by 10 and I instinctively felt we were going to blow it. Rather than salting them away and giving our bench some time, we were struggling until the end. There isn't the killer instinct in this team or our coach. We seem to get ahead only to squander the effort we made. We seem to lack the bench strength beyond Greg Elliott to sustain momentum.
St. John's likes to "ugly up" games. I actually was very impressed with Marquette's resilience after almost giving the game away. And Wojo gave the bench as much time as he could afford to. Every time he took DJ out, it was a disaster against the press. Elliott played 24 minutes off the bench, and Lewis played 22. Even Torrence played 11. Not sure who else you were hoping Wojo would put in there.
And maybe our guys were tired at the end, but I'm guessing their guys were, too. And we made the plays in the final minute that they didn't.
St. John's is tough, scrappy and well-coached, and they have a legit stud in Champaigie. I'll take a road win against them as opposed to the losses that most teams around the country are suffering to a lot worse competition.
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Could someone smarter than me explain what Garcia is doing wrong that he keeps getting blocked? I've never seen someone so tall get so many shots blocked down low.
Remember he just jumped from high school, beating everyone at much slower tempo, to being a starter and a key player on the BE. Not used to how quick everyone is including guys inside, and what everyone else said.
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I was very impressed with SJU's pressure after made baskets. I didn't count, but I'd bet they created at least 4 TOs from that pressure.
Why don't more teams do that? It's not like MU was finding an open man for an easy bucket. Seems low risk against most teams, and if you gain 3-4 extra possessions it's gravy.
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That is Anderson's trademark. Recruits and starts from day 1 with the intention of pressing everywhere. And he has the team speed to do it. Posh was ridiculous today.
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I thought Anderson coached a very good game today. However, I was surprised he waited so long, down 2, to go for the tie/win.
Also ...
Want to give a little shout-out to Koby. Didn't have one of his better games, but he deserves more than just being mentioned for a few screw-ups.
I mean, he DID hit the winning shot, and it was a beauty.
Reminded me some of Vander's winner against the Johnnies for the BEast title, and of course, Vander's winner against Davidson that made our Elite 8 run possible.
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Koby was a settling influence against the press.
I told my wife during the time out after Koby's make that Champagnie was going to hit a buzzer 3 to win. I came close.
I think switching Theo onto Dunn confused SJU. I think that change made them stand still in their offense. I think the original plan was to have a drive, collapse, and pitch to Champagnie. MU's subtle adjustment confused SJU just enough.
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Blowing a double digit lead in 3 straight second halves is pretty concerning and hope they can clean that up.
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If only the Big East wasn't full of good teams playing really hard.
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I think switching Theo onto Dunn confused SJU. I think that change made them stand still in their offense. I think the original plan was to have a drive, collapse, and pitch to Champagnie. MU's subtle adjustment confused SJU just enough.
Agreed, you could see StJ was completely surprised to have Theo defending at the top of the arc.
Also thought that after they made their run, StJ looked tired. Sometimes you burn an awful lot of effort undigging a hole like that.
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If only the Big East wasn't full of good teams playing really hard.
Saint John’s is not a good team. They’re a dog’s breakfast.
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Saint John’s is not a good team. They’re a dog’s breakfast.
A bit strong. I have issues with this team but a #86 rank (StJ) on KenPom playing on the road is not a lock unless you are a Top 25 team.
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Bench strength: Ummmmmm..... Lewis?
Of course SJU was going to make a run. That is who they are. Inevitable as death and taxes.
The plays that frosted me were Koby twice running the baseline after turnovers.
Cain dribbling up the floor against SJU pressure with no obvious outlet.
Greg being unable to inbound the ball. Of course, Symir was the only other guard on the floor in that stretch. Koby and DJ sitting.
The rest was just basketball. SJU is going to play physical and slap at everything. MU needed to be stronger corralling rebounds and when they got the ball near the basket.
The problem isn't Lewis and Elliott. The problem is we have NOTHING past those two. Symir sponged minutes and did nothing else. Anyone else... tell me who?
We found in the Buzz era we need about 10 deep to be really good. We're 70 percent of the way there and St. john's press simply wore us out.
St. John's isn't a good team and, sadly, neither are we.
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I thought Anderson coached a very good game today. However, I was surprised he waited so long, down 2, to go for the tie/win.
Also ...
Want to give a little shout-out to Koby. Didn't have one of his better games, but he deserves more than just being mentioned for a few screw-ups.
I mean, he DID hit the winning shot, and it was a beauty.
Reminded me some of Vander's winner against the Johnnies for the BEast title, and of course, Vander's winner against Davidson that made our Elite 8 run possible.
Regarding your first point, they had no timeouts and i think Wojo coming out with Theo up top threw off Dunn.
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We seem to lack the bench strength beyond Greg Elliott to sustain momentum.
Our guys were clearly worn out toward the end of the game. The sloppy ball handling was endemic of it.
1.Lewis is pretty good off the bench.
2. Tired legs (lol).
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Regarding your first point, they had no timeouts and i think Wojo coming out with Theo up top threw off Dunn.
Agreed. I believe Spanarkel said that having Theo out there was a mistake, but it seemed to mess them up.
I thought Wojo had a good game too.
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https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401269614
ESPN doesn't have a recap up yet. Why don't you offer your services!?!
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As disappointing as it was to cough up a big lead, this was a big win. The potential is there. The team just needs to continue improving every game. Turnovers remain a concern.
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Blowing a double digit lead in 3 straight second halves is pretty concerning and hope they can clean that up.
Never fear. Wojo has that figured out
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The problem isn't Lewis and Elliott. The problem is we have NOTHING past those two. Symir sponged minutes and did nothing else. Anyone else... tell me who?
We found in the Buzz era we need about 10 deep to be really good. We're 70 percent of the way there and St. john's press simply wore us out.
St. John's isn't a good team and, sadly, neither are we.
I love teams that go 9-10 deep. So we agree. You limited your initial comment to Greg. With which I disagreed.
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No such thing as a bad road win, especially somewhere we haven't won in 4 years. Take it and run. Chances we get a make-up/reschedule in the midweek?
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No such thing as a bad road win, especially somewhere we haven't won in 4 years. Take it and run. Chances we get a make-up/reschedule in the midweek?
BE road is hard, Creighton @ Butler
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I think Wojo rides the hot hands between Garcia, Lewis, and Theo. Lewis was better than Garcia today and therefore got more run at the end. Pretty simple.
Letting Cain dribble against the SJU pressure? Oof.
Some one posted earlier this year: When Cain dribbles, bad things happen.
I have been watching since, and it's true.
Dawson should be the press-breaker, not Jamal.
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It was a hard fought game for 40 minutes by both teams. Came down to the last shot and we won. Classic Big East physical game.
I something positive from all the players on the team today. Our opponent was very tenacious and we can build off this win.
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It was a hard fought game for 40 minutes by both teams. Came down to the last shot and we won. Classic Big East physical game.
I something positive from all the players on the team today. Our opponent was very tenacious and we can build off this win.
You sound like a Wojo presser. And those don’t sit well around here.
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I just finished watching...had taped the game. I thought the first half we were lucky to be ahead by 11 and St John's would come back hard the 2nd. They did. They are a tough team...no doubt about that. Give our guys credit, they came back again and again, could have cashed in but, made some big baskets at the end. Will take a road win in the big East.
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Yeah, I remember when those were appreciated.
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BE road is hard, Creighton @ Butler
Creighton was playing without Zegarowski.
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Creighton was playing without Zegarowski.
Ok make excuses ::) they blew a huge lead. Besides he is way overrated.
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BE road is hard, Creighton @ Butler
Yep creighton was up 13 with 11:28 left against a 3-7 team... and lost. Take a road W any way you can.
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Could someone smarter than me explain what Garcia is doing wrong that he keeps getting blocked? I've never seen someone so tall get so many shots blocked down low.
Not an above the rim player despite his height. No spring in his legs. Doesn’t mean he isn’t good. He brings a lot to the table but he is not overly athletic.
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Win! I’ll take it!
Great come back by SJU in the second half. Champagne was gonna get his at some point.
Despite how terrible many here think Wojo is, he made the coaching call of leaving Lewis in over Garcia at the end. And made the change of having Theo up top at the end of the game.
Coaching done well.
Coaching done bad is definitely the inbounds and press break.
W!
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Ok make excuses ::) they blew a huge lead. Besides he is way overrated.
He’d be the best player on our team.
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Sarcasm went flying by you, Lenny.
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He’d be the best player on our team.
He had the chance to be the best player on the court when MU played at Creighton. Was he even one of the top 5?
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Imagine the outrage Wojo would get if we didn’t have our “best player” (he’s Creighton’s, in my opinion, who we beat on the road, by the way, even with Zagarowski), grew a lead to 13, and blew it in the last 12 minutes of a game.
Shoot. Wojo’s team comes back from down 18 in the second half and we want to leave him in DC because he had the audacity to not sit his team down and chew them out when they started celebrating when he entered the locker room.
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There are too many people not finding joy in a conference road win.
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Anyone else notice how much more demonstrative/vocal Wojo has been the past few games? Maybe it’s recency bias?
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I think he is working hard to keep the young guys focused. He is in his defensive stance. Against Providence, the announcers said he slapped the floor.
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I think he is working hard to keep the young guys focused. He is in his defensive stance. Against Providence, the announcers said he slapped the floor.
Agree, I’m all for it. This team needs it.
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There are too many people not finding joy in a conference road win.
Totally agree. But I guess it’s more fun to poop on the coach.
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Totally agree. But I guess it’s more fun to poop on the coach.
Cancel culture at its finest.
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Cancel culture at its finest.
Not canceling anything. You are free to post whatever you want, and you sure have plenty of company in your viewpoints.
And others are free to express disappointment that some Scoopers can’t seem to enjoy an MU road win.
Right? Or are you trying to cancel me and tower?
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Not canceling anything. You are free to post whatever you want, and you sure have plenty of company in your viewpoints.
And others are free to express disappointment that some Scoopers can’t seem to enjoy an MU road win.
Right? Or are you trying to cancel me and tower?
No I meant others like to cancel woj, not a comment on you and tower
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My initial reaction to that last defensive play was "Why the hell is Theo guarding Dunn?" My second reaction was, "There's no way in hell SJU wants Dunn taking the last shot. That's why." Bold strategy, had the zebra effect, just confused the opposition and allowed Theo to drop back and play help defender. Well done, I certainly wouldn't have thought that would work but it did.
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No I meant others like to cancel woj, not a comment on you and tower
My bad. Totally misread it.
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My bad. Totally misread it.
All good!
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- Unguarded threes kept St John's in the game in the first half, particularly the ones where they may have been shooting in an open gym.
- I thought we did pretty well against the pressure. Most of the TOs weren't a result of the pressure. DJ, Koby, & Dawson were the keys to breaking the press.
- When MU struggles early inside, I feel like they usually go away from it. Not today. We started making shots, which opened the middle, & were able to capitalize.
- Man, DJ can be electric. His dunks were fantastic. Could've had a much better line had a Theo offensive foul not nullified a DJ three and had near-assists not resulted in misses.
- Blowing a double-digit lead is always nerve-wracking, but at least they rallied to win. Whatever it takes to break that 4-game conference losing streak at SJU.
- Big stones for 1/7 Koby to dominate the last possession, take the shot, and make it. While he hasn't been as consistent as his season start, he's still looked like a Big East player this year.
- Take the win and run. We had lost that game five straight times, just needed a result.
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Not an above the rim player despite his height. No spring in his legs. Doesn’t mean he isn’t good. He brings a lot to the table but he is not overly athletic.
Dawson’s best post moves, especially against defenders who can match his height, are when he posts deep, needs at most one dribble and can take his baby hook. He was very effective with that early in the season, and I wish MU would go back to that some.
Otherwise, I really like him at the FT line against a zone, and it would be nice to get him more pick-and-pop opportunities against MTM.
And regardless of whether it’s Dawson, Theo or Justin posting, I wish we’d put either Jamal or Greg on that side outside the arc. If there’s a double-down, it would set up an open 3. If the defender stays home, our big can take his man.
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Could someone smarter than me explain what Garcia is doing wrong that he keeps getting blocked? I've never seen someone so tall get so many shots blocked down low.
This happened to Merritt a lot early on too.
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This happened to Merritt a lot early on too.
Yep. He just goes up weak a lot. Just something that young players need to adjust to.
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I post this not necessarily to complain about officiating in whole (actually think all things considered, we probably had more calls go our way than against us), but I think this may be the worst out of bounds decision I've ever seen, and I don't think that's a hyperbole.
https://twitter.com/SoupInNYC27/status/1350491338098290690?s=20
The shot wasn't close to being blocked. And then none of our players were ever close to the rebound, which was clearly knocked out of bounds by St John's. I was really scratching my head at how this was possibly ruled out on MU.
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Yes—I went back and looked at that several times.
The only thing that throws me off is Dawson, who was closest to the play, doesn’t react at all when the ref points STJ’s direction.
EDIT—yeah, that is 100% MU ball. There is no possibility of any MU player even touching it.
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Very glad MU squeaked out a win.
IMHO the talent gap between MU and STJ is huge however STJ make up for it with a defensive system that creates lots of opportunities for them.
Carton, Garcia and Lewis are studs. Koby was clutch.
It never should have gotten close. Once again, the halftime "adjustment" by STJ was obvious, and MU was unprepared.
Extremely difficult game to officiate because of the intensity of STJ defense. Reminded me a lot of the way Huggins' Cincy teams used to play. Basically they foul everyone, continuously, often with multiple people fouling the guy with the ball. Refs just cannot call all the fouls, so they don't. Advantage to the aggressor.
Such a close game against one of the bottom teams in the BEAST, however, does not bode well for the next round against Creighton, Nova, etc.
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Yep. He just goes up weak a lot. Just something that young players need to adjust to.
I love what Garcia gives the team but you either can jump out of the gym by this age or not. Strength will help him get more shots up in a different non-athletic crafty way. But he is getting blocked because he is a below the rim player at 6’11 and that is probably not going to change.
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Very glad MU squeaked out a win.
IMHO the talent gap between MU and STJ is huge however STJ make up for it with a defensive system that creates lots of opportunities for them.
Carton, Garcia and Lewis are studs. Koby was clutch.
It never should have gotten close. Once again, the halftime "adjustment" by STJ was obvious, and MU was unprepared.
Extremely difficult game to officiate because of the intensity of STJ defense. Reminded me a lot of the way Huggins' Cincy teams used to play. Basically they foul everyone, continuously, often with multiple people fouling the guy with the ball. Refs just cannot call all the fouls, so they don't. Advantage to the aggressor.
Such a close game against one of the bottom teams in the BEAST, however, does not bode well for the next round against Creighton, Nova, etc.
Agree with you about the aggressor stuff.
Your last line is an opinion, and that's cool. We all have them. But one could have said the exact same thing going into the first Creighton game after we lost to UCLA and weren't especially impressive against Green Bay. Or going into the Wisconsin game after we lost to Oklahoma State. Indeed, if one looks back at predictions here, most Scoopers gave us little chance to win either game.
Each game is its own entity. Look what's happening all around the country. We need to play better, sure, but I'll take any win. Lots of teams with seemingly huge talent advantages - including many coached by guys whom any of us would take over Wojo - are not only playing close games against seemingly inferior teams but losing to them.
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Agree with you about the aggressor stuff.
Your last line is an opinion, and that's cool. We all have them. But one could have said the exact same thing going into the first Creighton game after we lost to UCLA and weren't especially impressive against Green Bay. Or going into the Wisconsin game after we lost to Oklahoma State. Indeed, if one looks back at predictions here, most Scoopers gave us little chance to win either game.
Each game is its own entity. Look what's happening all around the country. We need to play better, sure, but I'll take any win. Lots of teams with seemingly huge talent advantages - including many coached by guys whom any of us would take over Wojo - are not only playing close games against seemingly inferior teams but losing to them.
Agreed 82. I was actually impressed with how relaxed we were getting shots off during that foul fest. I think that is a sign of significant improvement that bodes well the rest of the season. MUs best basketball is ahead of them.
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Very glad MU squeaked out a win.
IMHO the talent gap between MU and STJ is huge however STJ make up for it with a defensive system that creates lots of opportunities for them.
Carton, Garcia and Lewis are studs. Koby was clutch.
It never should have gotten close. Once again, the halftime "adjustment" by STJ was obvious, and MU was unprepared.
Extremely difficult game to officiate because of the intensity of STJ defense. Reminded me a lot of the way Huggins' Cincy teams used to play. Basically they foul everyone, continuously, often with multiple people fouling the guy with the ball. Refs just cannot call all the fouls, so they don't. Advantage to the aggressor.
Such a close game against one of the bottom teams in the BEAST, however, does not bode well for the next round against Creighton, Nova, etc.
Ya. Louisville under pitino was similar.
But I hate it. Refs could, and I believe should, call all the fouls like any other game. Not calling them only gives in to the idea that it's okay to foul. Players/teams/coaches aren't going to change unless you force them to follow the rules.
If a team started travelling every possession, would the refs stop calling them?
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Watched any NBA lately?
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Ya. Louisville under pitino was similar.
But I hate it. Refs could, and I believe should, call all the fouls like any other game. Not calling them only gives in to the idea that it's okay to foul. Players/teams/coaches aren't going to change unless you force them to follow the rules.
If a team started travelling every possession, would the refs stop calling them?
Agree. I don't know why the foul thing is different, but it simply is. Maybe refs don't want to be viewed as "deciding the game" -- though IMHO when they don't call fouls, they are deciding the game at least as much, perhaps even more.
I coach my middle school teams to press full-court and to be very aggressive. While I don't like silly or lazy fouls, I have no problem with aggressive fouls. I tell my players: "I'm not overly worried about you committing fouls because you're being aggressive. That's why we have 12 players."
I don't tell them the part about refs simply not wanting to call too many fouls, because I want them to respect the refs.
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If a team started travelling every possession, would the refs stop calling them?
REF: James Harden
The answer is yes.
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I love what Garcia gives the team but you either can jump out of the gym by this age or not. Strength will help him get more shots up in a different non-athletic crafty way. But he is getting blocked because he is a below the rim player at 6’11 and that is probably not going to change.
I think it has more to do with learning that college defense and game is a lot faster. In HS he was used to just go up for the easy 2, no one could contest or would get foul. Now is a different game faster, more athletic stronger defenders. Can't just go straight up, needs to make move or fake the shot first, or has to be faster to the hoop. Plus many times he is getting foul and not having benefit of calls, frosh.
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- Unguarded threes kept St John's in the game in the first half, particularly the ones where they may have been shooting in an open gym.
So I finally figured out how to work synergy to see guarded vs. unguarded threes. I went back and looked at the SJU game, for what it's worth, we only gave up 6 unguarded threes in the entire game, only 3 in the first half. The breakdown was
1 to Champagnie in the second half (Made)
1 to Dunn in the first half (Missed)
1 to Addae-Wusu in the first half (Made)
1 to Earlington in the first half (Made)
2 to Cole in the second half (Made one missed the other)
Most impressive to me was 10/11 of Champagnie's threes were guarded, shows that the team knew who to stay in the pocket of and a kudos to Lewis specifically. Of course, Champagnie still went 4/10 on those shots.
EDIT: Forgot to add. One of those unguarded made threes was off an offensive rebound that went straight to an SJU player who kicked it out to an open shooter. Hard to blame that one on the defense
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So I finally figured out how to work synergy to see guarded vs. unguarded threes. I went back and looked at the SJU game, for what it's worth, we only gave up 6 unguarded threes in the entire game, only 3 in the first half. The breakdown was
1 to Champagnie in the second half (Made)
1 to Dunn in the first half (Missed)
1 to Addae-Wusu in the first half (Made)
1 to Earlington in the first half (Made)
2 to Cole in the second half (Made one missed the other)
Most impressive to me was 10/11 of Champagnie's threes were guarded, shows that the team knew who to stay in the pocket of and a kudos to Lewis specifically. Of course, Champagnie still went 4/10 on those shots.
I dont get the "only" here - is 6 unguarded 3s not a lot? Is 50% on those shots not good? If they were all guarded and make 2/6 (SJU season avg) that's one less 3.
I know we haven't had a ton of 1 possession finishes this year (and are 2-1 in the 3 we've had) but spotting the other team 3 free points because we dont guard a half dozen 3s per game doesn't seem like a good strategy
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So how big of a dog house is Jose Perez in.
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So how big of a dog house is Jose Perez in.
He's not. He's just not a talented as the players getting run.
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I dont get the "only" here - is 6 unguarded 3s not a lot? Is 50% on those shots not good? If they were all guarded and make 2/6 (SJU season avg) that's one less 3.
We had been giving up 10.5 unguarded threes a game. The D1 average is 8.5 a game. So only is an appropriate modifier, especially given that it was a higher possession game. Unguarded threes happen, no defense is perfect. Unguarded also doesn't necessarily mean good. For example, 12% 3p shooter Raheem Dunn taking a three is not a good shot guarded or unguarded.
The 50% is high but that's bad luck. Once the shot is out of the shooter's hands, there's nothing more the defense can do.
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So how big of a dog house is Jose Perez in.
He's not. He's just not a talented as the players getting run.
I don't think either of these things is true. I think Jose and the staff decided to treat this as a redshirt year despite the waiver. It's rare, but some players actually do want to redshirt
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I don't think either of these things is true. I think Jose and the staff decided to treat this as a redshirt year despite the waiver. It's rare, but some players actually do want to redshirt
In a normal year, absolutely. Though, I’m struggling to find a reason why a 22 year old guy would rather not play at all vs playing 20min a game considering there is no impact on his eligibility. My opinion is that he wants to play but isn’t quite in the rotation yet.
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The minutes he has played did not show enough to think he would crack the top 8 on this team. yet.
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I think the problem is that you're trying to understand the mindset of a 22 year old that has suffered from mental health issues. We can talk about it forever behind our keyboards, but none of us has any clue what is going through the young man's head.
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In a normal year, absolutely. Though, I’m struggling to find a reason why a 22 year old guy would rather not play at all vs playing 20min a game considering there is no impact on his eligibility. My opinion is that he wants to play but isn’t quite in the rotation yet.
Or in an abnormal year. Maybe he decided that COVID wasn't worth the risk and decided to opt out.
My thought process is that he isn't dressing so it's not a "not good enough issue" because even the walk ons dress. He's not acting like a guy in major trouble so if he's in the doghouse he's taking it very well. I think he and the staff decided to treat this year as a redshirt year despite the waiver.
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Unguarded also doesn't necessarily mean good. For example, 12% 3p shooter Raheem Dunn taking a three is not a good shot guarded or unguarded.
Yep, coaches often choose to leave bad shooters open from 3. I mean, look how 75% 3-point shooter Theo John is left wide open, possession after possession after possession.
You try to take away what will hurt you most, and try to tempt others into doing what they are not very good at. MU opponents might as well have held up signs saying, "Go ahead, Derrick ... shoot!" If Derrick happened to go 4-for-5 to lead a Marquette win (in fantasyland), it still would not have been a "bad" strategy by the opposing coach.
During the 1995 playoffs (MJ's first postseason after coming out of retirement), Phil Jackson purposely let Horace Grant take any open jumper of 15+ feet that he wanted. Grant ended up killing the Bulls, and rubbed it in Jackson's face after the series. "Credit to Horace," Jackson said. "But we'd do it again."
Phil Jackson ... pretty good coach.
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We had been giving up 10.5 unguarded threes a game. The D1 average is 8.5 a game. So only is an appropriate modifier, especially given that it was a higher possession game. Unguarded threes happen, no defense is perfect. Unguarded also doesn't necessarily mean good. For example, 12% 3p shooter Raheem Dunn taking a three is not a good shot guarded or unguarded.
The 50% is high but that's bad luck. Once the shot is out of the shooter's hands, there's nothing more the defense can do.
The ones I had the most issue with on Saturday were the ones where we didn't even make a token effort to get out on the shooter. There were three in particular where the shooter got the ball and almost looked surprised they had so much time. Even a bad shooter at this level can look good when they're effectively in an open gym.
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The 50% is high but that's bad luck. Once the shot is out of the shooter's hands, there's nothing more the defense can do.
I assumed 1SE's math was correct. SJU actually went 4/6 (66%) on unguarded threes. That's very bad luck. That's a PPP of 2. The D1 average on unguarded threes is just above 1.
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The ones I had the most issue with on Saturday were the ones where we didn't even make a token effort to get out on the shooter. There were three in particular where the shooter got the ball and almost looked surprised they had so much time. Even a bad shooter at this level can look good when they're effectively in an open gym.
I'd have to go back and look, I remember 2 like that but IIRC one was off an offensive rebound that went straight to a Johnnie who kicked it out. Hard to fault the defense on that one.
Regardless, it's less than the 5/7 on unguarded 3s in the first half that you mentioned in the game thread ;)
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I'd have to go back and look, I remember 2 like that but IIRC one was off an offensive rebound that went straight to a Johnnie who kicked it out. Hard to fault the defense on that one.
Regardless, it's less than the 5/7 on unguarded 3s in the first half that you mentioned in the game thread ;)
There were 7 in the first half with token defense at best, and 5 went in. Synergy may not have counted all as such, but our inability to limit their open attempts kept them in the game early & made their comeback effort easier late.
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There were 7 in the first half with token defense at best, and 5 went in. Synergy may not have counted all as such, but our inability to limit their open attempts kept them in the game early & made their comeback effort easier late.
Brew, I'm not calling you a liar, but St. John's only made 4 three pointers in the first half. So the 5/7 in the first half is impossible. And for what it's worth, synergy only counted 2 of those makes as unguarded, and 1 of those was the offensive rebound that I mentioned. I think you were seeing ghosts out there.
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NoJo juice will do that to you. Interesting that when the Synergy numbers showed us giving up a ton of open three's it was gospel, but once it shows us doing a decent job it's, well Synergy may not have showed it, but we're bad.
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To be fair, love brews work. But this year it has been completely biased with hard nojo slants.
Used to take his work as given and appropriate. But now even when MU does something well or wins, it’s a negative tone.
Unguarded 3’s happen. It sucks. But it’s fewer over the last few games. Which is good! Getting better is good! :)
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NoJo juice will do that to you. Interesting that when the Synergy numbers showed us giving up a ton of open three's it was gospel, but once it shows us doing a decent job it's, well Synergy may not have showed it, but we're bad.
To be fair, I made a similar comment after the Georgetown game where I said that I thought more of Georgetown's threes were guarded than was reality. We all have our own eye test and it's natural to be surprised when stats going against what our eyes are telling us.
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To be fair, I made a similar comment after the Georgetown game where I said that I thought more of Georgetown's threes were guarded than was reality. We all have our own eye test and it's natural to be surprised when stats going against what our eyes are telling us.
Fair. I don't have Synergy, and don't know exactly what methodologies they use, but I do know that they are reputable enough that when they say we performed poorly, I believe it. The other side of that coin is that when they say we performed well (at this one particular category), I also believe it. You can't just use the advanced numbers when they help your argument, if you're going to use them, use them all the time.
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Brew, I'm not calling you a liar, but St. John's only made 4 three pointers in the first half. So the 5/7 in the first half is impossible. And for what it's worth, synergy only counted 2 of those makes as unguarded, and 1 of those was the offensive rebound that I mentioned. I think you were seeing ghosts out there.
I can go back and diagram which shots they were. I don't have access to the game today.
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I can go back and diagram which shots they were. I don't have access to the game today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peh6nYYS-do
Here you go.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peh6nYYS-do
Here you go.
Time is also part of the access.
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I can go back and diagram which shots they were. I don't have access to the game today.
You can, but again, they only made 4 3Ps total in the first half, so 5/7 in the first half is impossible.
Their four makes:
19:20: Greg Williams. Considered guarded by synergy. Jamal defended the shot with a hard but late closeout. Williams got open because Champagnie missed a guarded three, the rebound went straight to Posh Alexander at the top of the key who immediately kicked to Williams on the elbow. It was impressive that Cain get a hand in the face given where he started.
18:47: Greg Williams. Considered guarded by synergy. Jamal defended the shot with a hard but late closeout. Transition three. Jamal correctly goes to the hoop to stop a transition layup and then runs to cover Williams immediately after Alexander passes to him. Williams releases in the first 5 seconds of the shot clock. Again, impressive that Cain got a hand in the face given where he started.
5:24: Marcellus Earlington. Considered unguarded by synergy. Williams drives on Carton. Lewis incorrectly slides to help Carton, leaving his man unguarded in the corner.
2:18: Dylan Addae-Wusu. Considered unguarded by synergy. Elliott misses a transition three and it leads to a St. John's transition three. St. John's had a 3 on 2. Carton goes to stop the ball, McEwen goes to cover Moore under the basket. No one left to pick up Addae-Wusu in the corner, shot goes up 4 seconds into the shot clock.
The halfcourt defense gave up 1 made three in the first half. Season long, still an issue, but it really wasn't an issue in the first half of St. John's. I don't think it was an issue in the second half either, but I haven't looked as closely.