MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: brewcity77 on January 15, 2021, 09:37:19 AM
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First, Marquette is not in the market for a new head coach and likely will not be in the coming months. But if they were, the first two names I would want them to pursue are a current NBA assistant coach with a Final Four on the resume and a sitting high-major head coach with three Final Four appearances and a National Championship. Who are these candidates? Let's find out:
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2021/01/her-time-is-now.html
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Good stuff. And I agree with most of it. Now for the sarcasm....So many want the Warrior nickname back. How about Social Justice Warriors?
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Interesting read. My guess is that the first few women to be MBB head coaches will probably have to follow routes 1 & 2 -- unimpeachable NBA assistants, or almost legends in the women's game. Mainly because ADs will be hesitant to stick their neck out for an up-and-comer who has to go up a level *and* switch from the women's to men's game.
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I'm game to give it a shot. Though I do think recruiting would be tougher than you're giving it credit for due to high school boy arrogance toward women athletes and more than a few "old school dads" telling their kids not to play for a woman.
That being said all it takes is a couple classes to prove their coaching chops in Men's before those people come around.
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I'm game to give it a shot. Though I do think recruiting would be tougher than you're giving it credit for due to high school boy arrogance toward women athletes and more than a few "old school dads" telling their kids not to play for a woman.
That being said all it takes is a couple classes to prove their coaching chops in Men's before those people come around.
I think there are times when a woman head coach would be a disadvantage on the recruiting trail, but I also think there will be mothers who are more comfortable sending their sons to learn and be watched over by another mother. Like all recruiting, you win some and lose some.
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I think there are times when a woman head coach would be a disadvantage on the recruiting trail, but I also think there will be mothers who are more comfortable sending their sons to learn and be watched over by another mother. Like all recruiting, you win some and lose some.
This is a very good point. And a lot of time, the mom is the one really making a big impact on the recruit.
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Great read, thanks for writing this up.
Side note, there is another woman who is currently an AC at the men's D1 level: Corin "Tiny" Adams at Loyola Maryland. Hired this off season.
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Great read, thanks for writing this up.
Side note, there is another woman who is currently an AC at the men's D1 level: Corin "Tiny" Adams at Loyola Maryland. Hired this off season.
Thanks for finding that! I will update the article.
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Good stuff. And I agree with most of it. Now for the sarcasm....So many want the Warrior nickname back. How about Social Justice Warriors?
Just “Warriors” with Joan of Arc as the mascot and a female head coach. We were the first Catholic university to go co-ed; it’s the right call.
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I think there are times when a woman head coach would be a disadvantage on the recruiting trail, but I also think there will be mothers who are more comfortable sending their sons to learn and be watched over by another mother. Like all recruiting, you win some and lose some.
CBB is all about recruiting. If I was the AD I would only have one question ... "Why would a player like Patrick Baldwin Jr give you the time of day?" (to put it bluntly).
If she can answer this question credibly, then do it.
That said, I do not think she can, and if she cannot, it would not only be program suicide, it would set back all women that want to make the leap to the head coach chair in Men's CBB for a long time.
ADDED LATER
The next logical step is to hire a woman at a Power 5 school as an assistant and watch them reel in recruits first before they make the leap.
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I think it makes sense.
And, you could pay them 20% less salary.
(It saddens me that I have to use teal there.)
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Good stuff. And I agree with most of it. Now for the sarcasm....So many want the Warrior nickname back. How about Social Justice Warriors?
So now, we not only have to use teal but we have to announce that teal is sarcasm beforehand? C'mon, tower!!!
brewski: Interesting, thought-provoking piece. The time a woman finally is hired to coach a men's program, it will be a monumental event, and the ensuing years would be pressure-filled and highly scrutinized. But that's the way it is anytime there is a first, as was the case for the first Black coaches/managers in the various sports.
My only hope is that the woman is hired at a school where success, and fairly quick success, is realistically achievable. Not a given, of course, but at least realistically achievable. In other words, not the likes of Chicago State or Binghamton or Hartford.
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A lot of easily triggered bro-flakes out there. Didn't want to spook any of them.
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I think there are times when a woman head coach would be a disadvantage on the recruiting trail, but I also think there will be mothers who are more comfortable sending their sons to learn and be watched over by another mother. Like all recruiting, you win some and lose some.
That's sort of what I mean. If you could come out the gates with a couple classes and have some success with the kids who's moms sent them your way then eventually even the grumbly old school dads would have to at least hear you out.
Essentially, I'm saying it would all be dependent on her first couple classes and I think unfortunately there'd be a shorter leash due to that.
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That's sort of what I mean. If you could come out the gates with a couple classes and have some success with the kids who's moms sent them your way then eventually even the grumbly old school dads would have to at least hear you out.
That's the main reason I had Lindsay Gottleib at the top of my list. Hard to say "what does a woman know?" when she's coming from a NBA bench.
brewski: Interesting, thought-provoking piece. The time a woman finally is hired to coach a men's program, it will be a monumental event, and the ensuing years would be pressure-filled and highly scrutinized. But that's the way it is anytime there is a first, as was the case for the first Black coaches/managers in the various sports.
My only hope is that the woman is hired at a school where success, and fairly quick success, is realistically achievable. Not a given, of course, but at least realistically achievable. In other words, not the likes of Chicago State or Binghamton or Hartford.
Thanks. Honestly, I think a program like ours would be ideal. I think it would be better in a Top-6 conference where recruiting at the highest level is possible and with a program where there's proof that success is possible. Georgetown or St John's would also fit the mold. I also think a smaller league like the Big East is a better choice than an ACC or Big 10 where you just have so many high level programs at the top of the mountain.
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Keep feeding Heisie rope. He is making his own noose.
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Heisie - that line of commentary is an embarrassment. It's been lopped off. Don't start it again.
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Don't want to get into the arguments of women vs men or recruiting bias etc. Because it's dumb and mostly incorrect when it comes to coaching.
The only one who intrigues me is the Cleveland cavs coach. I don't want a coach who has only coached at the women's divison. The games are different enough for that to make a difference.
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I think there are times when a woman head coach would be a disadvantage on the recruiting trail, but I also think there will be mothers who are more comfortable sending their sons to learn and be watched over by another mother. Like all recruiting, you win some and lose some.
How many high-level coaches are actually moms? Marquette, to my knowledge, has never had one for their women's team.
You can talk about gender equality all you want, but very few women have the support at home necessary to have both a high-pressure, 100-hour-a-week job and a family.
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How many high-level coaches are actually moms? Marquette, to my knowledge, has never had one for their women's team.
You can talk about gender equality all you want, but very few women have the support at home necessary to have both a high-pressure, 100-hour-a-week job and a family.
Gottleib, Frese, & Barnes are all mothers.
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If she is better than Wojo then hire her.
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I find female coaches in football ridiculous. Has a woman lined-up against Aaron Donald? Had to check Gronk at the line? Caught a speed ball from Watson?
However, basketball can work. Ladies play at a high level. They know the game because they've played it. I also think a female on the recruiting trail could be effective. I mean, whatever Wojo is sellin’, a female coach can too. And quite frankly, if a recruit looks over Wojo’s results, well, enough said. Count me in!
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I think there are times when a woman head coach would be a disadvantage on the recruiting trail, but I also think there will be mothers who are more comfortable sending their sons to learn and be watched over by another mother. Like all recruiting, you win some and lose some.
Yep. Like Galway said, lots of old school Dads won’t like the idea. Honestly, neither will some old school Moms. But for some it would actually give you an edge. A sharp coach could easily read the tea leaves and narrow her recruiting focus accordingly. Given a strong hire, I think it’s (overall) a recruiting advantage.
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I find female coaches in football ridiculous. Has a woman lined-up against Aaron Donald? Had to check Gronk at the line? Caught a speed ball from Watson? However, basketball can work. Ladies play at a high level. They know the game because they've played it.
What program did Buzz play for?
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I find female coaches in football ridiculous. Has a woman lined-up against Aaron Donald? Had to check Gronk at the line? Caught a speed ball from Watson?
However, basketball can work. Ladies play at a high level. They know the game because they've played it. I also think a female on the recruiting trail could be effective. I mean, whatever Wojo is sellin’, a female coach can too. And quite frankly, if a recruit looks over Wojo’s results, well, enough said. Count me in!
Why does a coach have to have played at a high level to be successful as a coach?
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...and when the program is tanking and the University fires her; she can sue for sexism.
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I find female coaches in football ridiculous. Has a woman lined-up against Aaron Donald? Had to check Gronk at the line? Caught a speed ball from Watson?
However, basketball can work. Ladies play at a high level. They know the game because they've played it. I also think a female on the recruiting trail could be effective. I mean, whatever Wojo is sellin’, a female coach can too. And quite frankly, if a recruit looks over Wojo’s results, well, enough said. Count me in!
Plenty of NFL coaches never played in the league.
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...and when the program is tanking and the University fires her; she can sue for sexism.
please say this is supposed to be teal. If not........YIKES!
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Don't want to get into the arguments of women vs men or recruiting bias etc. Because it's dumb and mostly incorrect when it comes to coaching.
The only one who intrigues me is the Cleveland cavs coach. I don't want a coach who has only coached at the women's divison. The games are different enough for that to make a difference.
Women’s game is much more pure basketball, oriented to X’s and O’s and less physical then the men. Our team last season was much better to watch in their offensive sets then our men were, IMO.
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Women’s game is much more pure basketball, oriented to X’s and O’s and less physical then the men. Our team last season was much better to watch in their offensive sets then our men were, IMO.
WTF is “pure basketball?” Just get the ball in the hoop and prevent the other team from doing the same. There’s nothing magical about offensive sets.
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WTF is “pure basketball?” Just get the ball in the hoop and prevent the other team from doing the same. There’s nothing magical about offensive sets.
I was married to someone who had a sister play D3 ball and that’s what her parents would say all the time about women’s basketball. Basketball is played in a variety of ways but the ultimate goal is to put the ball through the hoop and stop the other team from doing it.
Can a woman succeed coaching a men’s team? Absolutely but they’ll have to be mentally strong to handle the sexism and constant attention
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I find female coaches in football ridiculous. Has a woman lined-up against Aaron Donald? Had to check Gronk at the line? Caught a speed ball from Watson?
However, basketball can work. Ladies play at a high level. They know the game because they've played it. I also think a female on the recruiting trail could be effective. I mean, whatever Wojo is sellin’, a female coach can too. And quite frankly, if a recruit looks over Wojo’s results, well, enough said. Count me in!
While I understand the point of "you have to have done it in order to teach it" I think it should be pointed out that woman have been given the opportunity either. There's plenty of hard hitting woman's rugby players that I'm sure would enjoy an opportunity at least.
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Women’s game is much more pure basketball, oriented to X’s and O’s and less physical then the men. Our team last season was much better to watch in their offensive sets then our men were, IMO.
Thank for supporting my point? ?-(
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Plenty of NFL coaches never played in the league.
shouldn't you be called fluffy blue contrarian? Many NFL coaches never played in the NFL...you are correct. But how many NFL coaches didn’t play HS and college ball? There’s even college football coaches that didn’t play beyond HS. But they played. Typically, HC’s played in the sport they are coaching. Agreed? That’s why I’m saying a female HC could work in basketball. You knew this, but felt that contrarian itch, right?
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shouldn't you be called fluffy blue contrarian? Many NFL coaches never played in the NFL...you are correct. But how many NFL coaches didn’t play HS and college ball? There’s even college football coaches that didn’t play beyond HS. But they played. Typically, HC’s played in the sport they are coaching. Agreed? That’s why I’m saying a female HC could work in basketball. You knew this, but felt that contrarian itch, right?
College basketball coaches that did not play in college ...
(This list definitely has a Wisconsin flavor)
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26292605/ranking-2019-ncaa-tournament-coaches-players-1-68
Bruce Pearl, Auburn Tigers -- Pearl did not play basketball at Sharon (Massachusetts) High School, as an injury suffered playing football during his freshman year prevented him from pursuing athletics. Pearl's path to coaching came after he was hired as a student assistant at Boston College under Dr. Tom Davis, and was later added to Davis' coaching staff at Stanford.
Scott Drew, Baylor Bears -- Drew's playing days ended with the JV team at Valparaiso (Indiana) High School. Though his brother, Bryce, played in the NBA, Scott Drew was a tennis player (he played on the team but didn't letter) and basketball manager at Butler.
Richard Pitino, Minnesota Golden Gophers -- Pitino's playing career concluded at the high school level -- he served as a point guard for Saint Sebastian's School in Needham, Massachusetts, while his father, Rick, was coaching the Celtics. The younger Pitino did not play college basketball, serving as a student manager at Providence under then-coach Tim Welsh.
Bruce Weber, Kansas State Wildcats -- Weber played basketball through his senior year at John Marshall High School in Milwaukee but did not play sports as a collegian at Wisconsin-Milwaukee.
Chris Beard, Texas Tech Red Raiders -- Beard was a regular for McCullough High School in The Woodlands, Texas, but did not play college basketball at Texas. Then-Longhorns coach Tom Penders gave Beard a managerial job, and he'd eventually become a student assistant at the school.
Craig Smith, Utah State Aggies -- Smith played at the high school level for Stephen-Argyle Central High School in Stephen, Minnesota, but did not play collegiately at the University of North Dakota. It was while still a student at UND that Smith met Tim Miles, then the coach at NAIA Mayville State (North Dakota), who helped launch Smith's coaching career by hiring him as an unpaid volunteer assistant.
John Becker, Vermont Catamounts -- Becker was a good high school player at Roger Ludlowe High School in Fairfield, Connecticut. Read here about his 35-point game as a senior. Though erroneous information abounds about his post-high school career, Becker did not play intercollegiate basketball at Catholic University, his alma mater.
Greg Gard, Wisconsin Badgers -- Gard was a three-sport athlete (including hoops) at Iowa-Grant High in rural Livingston, Wisconsin, but did not play basketball at Wisconsin-Platteville. He did play baseball at UW-Platteville in the 1990s but was cut before his sophomore year.
Tim Craft, Gardner-Webb Bulldogs -- Craft did not play basketball at his alma mater, the University of Florida, though he was a manager for the Gators' baseball team. Craft has been quoted as saying that he could have played Division III basketball out of North Florida Christian School in Tallahassee, but the partial scholarship he received for working with the baseball team won out over a continued playing career.
Mick Cronin, Cincinnati Bearcats -- Despite his diminutive stature (5-foot-7), Cronin was a good high school point guard under his father, Hep, at Cincinnati's La Salle High. A knee injury was a factor in Cronin's career ending before he reached college at Cincinnati.
Mark Few, Gonzaga Bulldogs -- Few led Creswell (Oregon) High to the state's AAA semifinals as a senior point guard. Shoulder problems prevented him from playing at Linfield College, where he intended to play basketball and baseball.
Buzz Williams, Virginia Tech Hokies -- Williams played at Van Alstyne (Texas) High School, and told ESPN in 2012 that he could've made the roster at various "Bible colleges" across the country. Williams ultimately did not play basketball at either of his collegiate stops -- Navarro Junior College (Texas) or Oklahoma City University -- but served as a student assistant at both places.
In addition to the above
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8011917/some-top-coaches-prove-play-high-level-coach-one-men-college-basketball
Tom Crean said he realizes how fortunate he is to have been surrounded by some of greatest minds in sports. Before taking over at Marquette in 1999, Crean was an assistant under accomplished coaches such as Jud Heathcoate, Ralph Willard and Tom Izzo. And his brothers-in-law -- Jim and John Harbaugh -- are NFL head coaches.
Long before he met any of them, though, Crean was certain he wanted to become a college head coach despite never playing the game beyond high school. At the same time he was attending classes as a 19-year-old sophomore at Central Michigan, Crean was working as an assistant coach at Division III Alma College (enrollment 1,400) and at Mount Pleasant (Mich.) High School.
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shouldn't you be called fluffy blue contrarian? Many NFL coaches never played in the NFL...you are correct. But how many NFL coaches didn’t play HS and college ball? There’s even college football coaches that didn’t play beyond HS. But they played. Typically, HC’s played in the sport they are coaching. Agreed? That’s why I’m saying a female HC could work in basketball. You knew this, but felt that contrarian itch, right?
First, your post only referenced playing NFL football. Second, I think its a bad point. I don't think you need to have played the sport to coach it.
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I find female coaches in football ridiculous. Has a woman lined-up against Aaron Donald? Had to check Gronk at the line? Caught a speed ball from Watson?
However, basketball can work. Ladies play at a high level. They know the game because they've played it. I also think a female on the recruiting trail could be effective. I mean, whatever Wojo is sellin’, a female coach can too. And quite frankly, if a recruit looks over Wojo’s results, well, enough said. Count me in!
1) Where have you been? Get yourself to a Womens Football Alliance game. Good stuff. I have a friend that is a four time champion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_Football_Alliance
2) One of course doesn't have to play a sport at xyz level to be a coach or executive, as some men have shown since the beginning of time.
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1) Where have you been? Get yourself to a Womens Football Alliance game. Good stuff. I have a friend that is a four time champion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_Football_Alliance
2) One of course doesn't have to play a sport at xyz level to be a coach or executive, as some men have shown since the beginning of time.
Or the Legends football league (formerly lingerie football)