MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on December 01, 2020, 08:06:21 PM
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1. As I predicted, MU had trouble with the speedy 6'7 guys. OSU is long, athletic switchables. The length and speed completely dominated the second half.
2. Carton keeps getting starter minutes
3. Cain should never dribble again
4. Garcia sat a long time in the second half.
5. Maybe Akanno isn't quite ready for the hall of fame.
6. OSU caught MU with the perfect line up to throw on their press and zone when they turned the game around in the first half. Wojo should have instantly burned a time out.
7. I appreciate Greg.
8. Theo and Cain did not exhibit senior leadership.
9. Guards need to step up. More attacking, less standing around on the perimeter.
10. At least Koby attacked.
11. This isn't exactly new, but you need to avoid the sugar high that comes from cupcakes. This is still a team that saw 48 ppg walk out the door. That lost 2 weeks of practice. With 6 new players out of the 11. Momma said there would be days like these.
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Same old, same old, hey. Knot 'nough 5 stars on da roster, aina?
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Yea, don’t understand the hate towards Koby tonight. Did a really nice job on Cunningham and he was the only person who at least attempted to drive to the hoop.
12. Carton needs new shoes, he slips so much.
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There’s never a counterpunch and this was the most glaring example. Wow. That was embarrassing.
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11. This isn't exactly new, but you need to avoid the sugar high that comes from cupcakes. This is still a team that saw 48 ppg walk out the door. That lost 2 weeks of practice. With 6 new players out of the 11. Momma said there would be days like these.
Eh how many freshman did osu have. I've been hearing this excuse for way to long.
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Koby hate is spilling over from last year.
But this was just brutal. Maybe Markus wasn’t the problem and he was covering up the warts.
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Same old, same old, hey?
We'll see. The growth curve is what matters now.
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Yea, don’t understand the hate towards Koby tonight. Did a really nice job on Cunningham and he was the only person who at least attempted to drive to the hoop.
12. Carton needs new shoes, he slips so much.
People need someone to blame and right now the blame is on the team. Its unfair to single out a particular player. Its frustrating how MU cannot seem to figure out ways to beat teams with 6'6+ switchables. It is not like this is the first time MU has played a team like OkSt.....
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11 points and you don’t say the word “Wojo” once. Let’s stop sheltering him, yeah?
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I've been a pretty big fire wojo guy for 5 or 6 years now. For those who aren't, what is your bottom line for him to get the boot?
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Jamal Cain may be the worst dribbler in the history of college basketball. I gotta check film to make sure but I’m pretty certain about it
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11 points and you don’t say the word “Wojo” once. Let’s stop sheltering him, yeah?
Work on your reading.
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Koby hate is spilling over from last year.
But this was just brutal. Maybe Markus wasn’t the problem and he was covering up the warts.
I was one of the biggest Koby haters last year
You will have to scroll down a really long list of the problems tonight to get to Kobys name. He wasn't great tonight but far from the issue. Refs hate him and his teammates do too apparently(think he was given the ball with 3 seconds left on the clock 5 times).
I do hope he goes back to automatic at the line.
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new year, coach still sucks- biggest roster piece that needs changing
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"WE WON THIS GAME... BY A LOT!!!" -Steve Wojciechowski
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In the 2nd half did we try..
Overloading 1 side of the zone?
Getting the ball to the high or low post? (once that i can think of - Garcia passed out to a wide-open Cain who made a 3)
Pushing the ball against the initial press?
And that was just offensive options.
What about putting on our own press and forcing their 8 eligible players to expend energy?
Wojo was terrible. I sincerely hope he wasn't saying/doing anything rather than the players ignoring him or unable to execute what he was asking for.
No more Cain dribbling. No more Koby dribbling to the end of the shot clock. Use the unbelievable length/height we have inside.
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I've been a pretty big fire wojo guy for 5 or 6 years now. For those who aren't, what is your bottom line for him to get the boot?
This didn’t help him. No offensive adjustments, poor execution out of time outs. Bucky could get ugly fast.
Defense was good though.
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Said it hundred times in the game thread.
Carton needs to be a man and shoot the rock or honestly just sit until he does start doing it.
Dude shot 40% from 3 last year and now he misses 1 shot and refuses to take another until his next shift on the court.
Not saying he needs to take 28 a game like Markus. But like uh....more..
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Work on your reading.
Ah my bad. It was the botched timeout that lost us the game.
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"WE WON THIS GAME... BY A LOT!!!" -Steve Wojciechowski
Hah. Well, at least that got me to laugh tonight. To follow up. "Only LEGAL points count" They cheat! https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/29271617/oklahoma-state-given-1-year-ncaa-tournament-ban
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2. Carton keeps getting starter minutes
Soo? should he not? who else?
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I am old enough to remember when Marquette had switchables.
But in a different thread I was told that our history was not important.
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It was standing around against the zone that beat us. All the ball movement from a week ago disappeared against the OSU length. If you stand still on offense, the defense wins.
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I know people are going to say, "IT'S YEAR SEVEN!" but we went 1-6 down the stretch the last two seasons so Wojo was due for a down year.
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Outside of slurpery and a couple summer pickup games, why were people expecting Akanno to be MJ times Damian Lillard divided by Oscar Robertson?
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Woj struck gold. Covid, high buyout, he’s goin’ nowhere.
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It was standing around against the zone that beat us. All the ball movement from a week ago disappeared against the OSU length. If you stand still on offense, the defense wins.
Confused coach = Confused players.
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It was standing around against the zone that beat us. All the ball movement from a week ago disappeared against the OSU length. If you stand still on offense, the defense wins.
And let’s finish the thought.. standing around on offense and ball getting stuck is usually a result of poor _____ing?
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a Wojo team with clueless offense execution and massive turnovers - as if we have not seen this before...
bucky will beat them by 25
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It was standing around against the zone that beat us. All the ball movement from a week ago disappeared against the OSU length. If you stand still on offense, the defense wins.
It's like no one wanted to break the zone. It was weird. The offense could have only devolved more if someone just dribbled the clock out every time.
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Young team. A lot of new players. Third game of the year. But a lot of desperation shots with the shot clock expiring. Also, ain't going to win with no shots going through the hoop. Couldn't figure why Greg Elliot was on the bench until things got desperate. In any case, hoping for a better game against Wisconsin.
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1. You don't dribble against a zone. you pass.
2. How could they have all those freshmen and yet it still looked like boys against men?
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Outside of slurpery and a couple summer pickup games, why were people expecting Akanno to be MJ times Damian Lillard divided by Oscar Robertson?
Still plenty of time, but it is a bit odd there was zero buzz around him from practice last season. Generally with transfers you hear something positive, but crickets around DA
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Woj struck gold. Covid, high buyout, he’s goin’ nowhere.
Should’ve broken up with him two years ago when we gave away the Big East title followed shortly by Hausershima. Would’ve set us up nicely for a building block year this year when the existence of the tournament itself is in question anyway.
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Outside of slurpery and a couple summer pickup games, why were people expecting Akanno to be MJ times Damian Lillard divided by Oscar Robertson?
yes. but squared
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Should’ve broken up with him two years ago when we gave away the Big East title followed shortly by Hausershima. Would’ve set us up nicely for a building block year this year when the existence of the tournament itself is in question anyway.
I was disappointed that he didn't kick the letter signers off the team immediately.
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I was disappointed that he didn't kick the letter signers off the team immediately.
Yes squash dissent with the iron fist of autocracy! That always works well for a leader.
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Dexter not having played the first two games looked out of his element today. Greg Elliott with experience I believe would of been the right choice today.
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8. Theo and Cain did not exhibit senior leadership.
I disagree - sort of. You could see it happening in the first half. And a little bit in the second. But then it went to crap (especially when we thought Theo fouled out).
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Should’ve broken up with him two years ago when we gave away the Big East title followed shortly by Hausershima. Would’ve set us up nicely for a building block year this year when the existence of the tournament itself is in question anyway.
Yep that was the opportunity for a clean break. Big miss. There are several of us who saw his issues very early. We’re just wasting years at this point.
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Wojo out.
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Would somebody please tell WOJO OSU plays a zone?
No-one in the dunker slot. High post often vacated. No movement. Exactly how to lose to a zone.
If Greg Gard was watching, he's teaching zone in practice tomorrow.
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Inmates don't get to dictate terms at the asylum. They attempted a coup. They should have been run immediately and just taken the hit.
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"WE WON THIS GAME... BY A LOT!!!" -Steve Wojciechowski
Thank you. I needed a laugh today.
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1) For all of you who thought Dawson Garcia was one and done, re-watch tonight's game on tape -- especially the second half. He's a good college player but he has growing to do. I'm counting on a couple more years of Dawson's magic based on what I saw tonight.
2) As others have said tonight, you beat the zone by finding its seams and by forcing the defense out. We didn't and it's going to be a long season if we don't find ways to beat good teams.
3) We gave up in the second half. We were frustrated by the lack of scoring and rather than keep trying we stood around. It's as if we were expecting Markus to come back and bail us out. We didn't try to make something and Oklahoma State knew it. This is probably the one really discouraging element of tonight's game.
4) Theo's three was the highlight of the game. He's smart enough, thank God, to know better than to do it again. There was one or two times in the second half when I thought Theo might be ready to fire one up again, but he thought better.
5) Not impressed with what I saw from Wojo's in-game adjustments. Either he had nothing or he lost the team. Neither is encouraging. Buzz, Crean, Al and O'Neill would have found a way to stick the basketball someplace in Oklahoma State where the sun don't shine -- with a smile no less. Didn't see that tonight at all.
6) Could we have been looking ahead to Roast Badger on Friday night? Let's hope so!
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It was standing around against the zone that beat us. All the ball movement from a week ago disappeared against the OSU length. If you stand still on offense, the defense wins.
Then push the tempo against the press
That's your alternative when your team has zero ball movement against a half-court zone
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BTW, Cunningham is good. Syracuse like length in that zone. OKState deserves a little credit.
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Inmates don't get to dictate terms at the asylum. They attempted a coup. They should have been run immediately and just taken the hit.
And your true colors show. You’re as Projo as they come despite the guise of the unbiased analyst. I personally like it when people in leadership positions listen to and consider the thoughts of their team members. Especially when the captain of the ship drives us into an iceberg. It seems clear you respond to a different form of leadership.
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And your true colors show. You’re as Projo as they come despite the guise of the unbiased analyst. I personally like it when people in leadership positions listen to and consider the thoughts of their team members. Especially when the captain of the ship drives us into an iceberg. It seems clear you respond to a different form of leadership.
And it's clear to everyone you're a blowhard. But go on...
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Very disappointed with Sy. He was a detriment.
Carton's handle is suspect. He was picked for a runout. No surprise as the cupcakes picked him as well. He was lucky to turn one into a jump.
When they had the fast break and Cain lost it, I recalled the comment after one of the first games that bad things happen when Cain dribbles.
This was a coaching loss. It looked like the response of a coach on the day the zone was invented.
At the half, I said to my wife, let's see what adjustments will happen. What a fool!
I've gone from undecided into the fringes of the Nojo camp.
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Inmates don't get to dictate terms at the asylum. They attempted a coup. They should have been run immediately and just taken the hit.
This is rich.
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Team will be wearing plain white masks to practice all week.
Starting with Wojo.
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And your true colors show. You’re as Projo as they come despite the guise of the unbiased analyst. I personally like it when people in leadership positions listen to and consider the thoughts of their team members. Especially when the captain of the ship drives us into an iceberg. It seems clear you respond to a different form of leadership.
Blahbityblahbityblahbity.
Team sucked tonight. It happens.
It will happen again. Young team.
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And it's clear to everyone you're a blowhard. But go on...
All it takes for me to go away is Wojo winning meaningful basketball games and stringing them together for a season or more. If you’re annoyed with me blame the man that you insist on defending.
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It was standing around against the zone that beat us. All the ball movement from a week ago disappeared against the OSU length. If you stand still on offense, the defense wins.
One of the great all-time posts.
Like gravity pulls things down.
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In the 2nd half did we try..
I don’t think so - it sure didn’t look like it.
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All it takes for me to go away is Wojo winning meaningful basketball games and stringing them together for a season or more. If you’re annoyed with me blame the man that you insist on defending.
Actually, I'm not defending Wojo. But you're a worse poster than he is as a coach. Exhibit #1: https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59473.0
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5) Not impressed with what I saw from Wojo's in-game adjustments. Either he had nothing or he lost the team. Neither is encouraging. Buzz, Crean, Al and O'Neill would have found a way to stick the basketball someplace in Oklahoma State where the sun don't shine -- with a smile no less. Didn't see that tonight at all.
I hope this was understated as a joke. It sure made me laugh.
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People are here dragging Cain for dribbling... he had 1 turnover tonight.
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Weird people on here already convinced dawson>hank
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One of the great all-time posts.
Like gravity pulls things down.
Everyone has things they watch for in a basketball game. For me, the first team that stops moving on offense usually loses. Once the ball stops moving, teams rarely regain the initiative. Cowboy zone stopped MU cold.
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Team will be wearing plain white masks to practice all week.
Starting with Wojo.
Wojo needs to coach the rest of the week via Zoom from the Old Gym.
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How does a team look so good early on and then all of a sudden look so bad. I was called by the biggest people, basketball people, saying congratulations Sir, Marquette has won. You looked at the numbers and this game was over. And then they did dumps, big massive dumps.
Rigged.
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And your true colors show. You’re as Projo as they come despite the guise of the unbiased analyst. I personally like it when people in leadership positions listen to and consider the thoughts of their team members. Especially when the captain of the ship drives us into an iceberg. It seems clear you respond to a different form of leadership.
Most people are on the same page here. Calm down you weird spaz
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One of the great all-time posts.
Like gravity pulls things down.
Everyone has things they watch for in a basketball game. For me, the first team that stops moving on offense usually loses. Once the ball stops moving, teams rarely regain the initiative. Cowboy zone stopped MU cold.
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Inmates don't get to dictate terms at the asylum.
Now explain how Markus Howard was coached.
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How does a team look so good early on and then all of a sudden look so bad. I was called by the biggest people, basketball people, saying congratulations Sir, Marquette has won. You looked at the numbers and this game was over. And then they did dumps, big massive dumps.
Rigged.
Epic
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I'm getting to where if Wojo doesn't show me something positive, I see no reason to keep him.
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Now explain how Markus Howard was coached.
He carried the offense
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Cain is not the problem... 13 and 13...
Koby showed he cared, aggressive and probably didn’t get the benefit of some calls. He will be fine.
Dj, Akanno have rust, they will be ok
Greg should have played first half
Theo showed leadership in coaching Lewis and Garcia, I think his improvement is notable.
Lewis and Garcia had moments, they will improve
What team doesn’t have trouble with 6’7 long and speed?
It’s early, this team will improve... 7 year issue is with the coach, not the players
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Actually, I'm not defending Wojo. But you're a worse poster than he is as a coach. Exhibit #1: https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59473.0
Your arsenal of comebacks is more complete than Wojo’s offensive playbook.
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Inmates don't get to dictate terms at the asylum. They attempted a coup. They should have been run immediately and just taken the hit.
Except when that inmate is named Markus Howard. From the moment he stepped on campus, he was given the ultimate green light. Can you imagine how he (or his parents) would’ve reacted if someone would’ve tried to reign him in? Four years of that set the program back.
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Most people are on the same page here. Calm down you weird spaz
Woahhhh referee please!!!!!!!
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Weird people on here already convinced dawson>hank
Actually, in Hanks 3rd game of the year against Iowa, he had 3 pts in 31 minutes:
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2015-11-19-marquette.html
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Woahhhh referee please!!!!!!!
So funny
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1) For all of you who thought Dawson Garcia was one and done, re-watch tonight's game on tape -- especially the second half. He's a good college player but he has growing to do. I'm counting on a couple more years of Dawson's magic based on what I saw tonight.
2) As others have said tonight, you beat the zone by finding its seams and by forcing the defense out. We didn't and it's going to be a long season if we don't find ways to beat good teams.
3) We gave up in the second half. We were frustrated by the lack of scoring and rather than keep trying we stood around. It's as if we were expecting Markus to come back and bail us out. We didn't try to make something and Oklahoma State knew it. This is probably the one really discouraging element of tonight's game.
4) Theo's three was the highlight of the game. He's smart enough, thank God, to know better than to do it again. There was one or two times in the second half when I thought Theo might be ready to fire one up again, but he thought better.
5) Not impressed with what I saw from Wojo's in-game adjustments. Either he had nothing or he lost the team. Neither is encouraging. Buzz, Crean, Al and O'Neill would have found a way to stick the basketball someplace in Oklahoma State where the sun don't shine -- with a smile no less. Didn't see that tonight at all.
6) Could we have been looking ahead to Roast Badger on Friday night? Let's hope so!
1) I was actually struck by the early offense, where Garcia looked just like Henry. Out top, ball in hand on every possession. It didn’t make me feel good about the team and the season.
2) Either attack with your guards...Koby was most effective, while DJ was a mess, and Sy didn’t try...or have an effective high post, which only happened once with Garcia’s pass to Cain for the 3.
3) I don’t think we gave up as much as we were lost. On Wojo for that.
4) Love that he’s shooting 100% for his career, but that’s not good for MU.
5) This game tipped me over to Nojo. So sad.
6) Pray
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So funny
Don’t be salty
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Except when that inmate is named Markus Howard. From the moment he stepped on campus, he was given the ultimate green light. Can you imagine how he (or his parents) would’ve reacted if someone would’ve tried to reign him in? Four years of that set the program back.
I wonder if they are celebrating the departure of Powell on Seton Hall scoop.
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Actually, in Hanks 3rd game of the year against Iowa, he had 3 pts in 31 minutes:
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/boxscores/2015-11-19-marquette.html
point is its silly to conclude daws is better already
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Don’t be salty
I agree with most of what you say especially about Wojo but when you start throwing at other posters, especially one who actually knows basketball, you need to stop
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point is its silly to conclude daws is better already
Agreed. Though also silly to conclude this game is proof otherwise.
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LOTS of self inflicted wounds.
Couldn’t create vs. the zone
Incredible turnover numbers
Too many missed shots
BUT
A solid half court D and actually rebounded ok (I thought we were getting killed on glass but they only had 8 offensive rebounds.
We can comeback from this. Go 2-1 in next 3 and we’re fine. Let’s beat Bucky!
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I agree with most of what you say especially about Wojo but when you start throwing at other posters, especially one who actually knows basketball, you need to stop
Fair. Criticism accepted.
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He carried the offense
Ultimately to the detriment of the rest of the team's development. We saw the effects of this tonight.
Look, I loved Markus. But he was given more rope than anyone else in that program over four years.
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As a positive, I think I’m going to enjoy watching Justin Lewis play.
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Fair. Criticism accepted.
I should have phrased better too, don’t mean to call anyone out. My bad man. But looking forward to Friday, does Wiscy run more zone after how Marquette’s offense looked today? Lord knows if I were Gard I would run it as often as possible after this disaster
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I wonder if they are celebrating the departure of Powell on Seton Hall scoop.
So pointing out that Markus had the ultimate green light (which is true) and that we never won anything of substance while he was here (which is also true) is celebrating his departure? You said that inmates don’t dictate the terms of the asylum, but under Wojo, Markus did what he wanted for four years.
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I should have phrased better too, don’t mean to call anyone out. My bad man. But looking forward to Friday, does Wiscy run more zone after how Marquette’s offense looked today? Lord knows if I were Gard I would run it as often as possible after this disaster
If I were any coach at the D1 level I would run zone all day and dare Marquette to beat them with the three ball.
Defense still looks really good, even against someone like Cunningham. May bet the under on every MU game for the rest of the year.
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So pointing out that Markus had the ultimate green light (which is true) and that we never won anything of substance while he was here (which is also true) is celebrating his departure? You said that inmates don’t dictate the terms of the asylum, but under Wojo, Markus did what he wanted for four years.
Markus did what Wojo wanted for 4 years. Model citizen, carried the offense.
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Markus did what Wojo wanted for 4 years.
And therein lies the problem.
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And therein lies the problem.
It scares me that seems to be the recruiting pitch to our top targets.
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And why did Dexter get in before Greg tonight? Bad choice by the coach.
If I’m Greg, I’m questioning my role on this team.
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Greg should have played earlier and more. I think Wojo just wanted to get Dexter some run with a lead. Backfired spectacularly.
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And therein lies the problem.
Ding ding ding
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And why did Dexter get in before Greg tonight? Bad choice by the coach.
If I’m Greg, I’m questioning my role on this team.
Every player should be pissed and questioning their role on the team. The question is, will the team come together, with Wojo guide them correctly. Only time will tell...
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Every player should be pissed and questioning their role on the team. The question is, will the team come together, with Wojo guide them correctly. Only time will tell...
What do we do when time tells
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Hopefully a lot of basketball left to play. Let’s give the team a chance to gel.
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Should’ve broken up with him two years ago when we gave away the Big East title followed shortly by Hausershima. Would’ve set us up nicely for a building block year this year when the existence of the tournament itself is in question anyway.
+ 1,000
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What do we do when time tells
Fair question. If Wojo fails to pull this team together, we'll probably be forced to support HIS team next year too. If he succeeds in getting this team to develop together - yay!
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Awful announcing crew.
Worse shooting.
Even worse coaching by Wojo.
Great adjustment by Ok. St. with the zone. Would of been nice if Wojo could of made a counter move. Weird substitutions today. I wonder what Perez and Greg are thinking about their playing time.
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Fair question. If Wojo fails to pull this team together, we'll probably be forced to support HIS team next year too. If he succeeds in getting this team to develop together - yay!
Is this your way of saying you’ll never call for his dismissal regardless of what results look like ad infinitum? If so I suppose I can ditch the sales pitch.
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Awful announcing crew.
Worse shooting.
Even worse coaching by Wojo.
Great adjustment by Ok. St. with the zone. Would of been nice if Wojo could of made a counter move. Weird substitutions today. I wonder what Perez and Greg are thinking about their playing time.
Does he regret transfering if this is the norm?
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Most turnovers in a game under the Wojo regime. As best as I quickly scanned, the most by a MU team since the March 8, 2012 vs. Louisville BE Quarterfinal when Junior was putting passes in the tenth row of MSG.
This team is a long way from forming an identity. A PG has yet to emerge, missing two weeks of team practices, very uneven play, unsure of roles. I honestly expected this early uneven play considering the roster composition and experience.
Is Wojo to blame as well? Yes, of course, as it was clear this team was not prepared by the number of turnovers...and we know Wojo wins his games in practices. In-game adjustments are not his strength, and he always goes back to his system as the way to fix them.
That said, another very good defensive game. Very strong on the rebounding. Lewis looked great out there. Some seepage with dribble penetration, especially in the 2nd half.
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Does he regret transfering if this is the norm?
Until the eleventh hour he was expected to sit out, so any minutes he gets in a free year are better than nothing.
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As a positive, I think I’m going to enjoy watching Justin Lewis play.
Absolutely. Hoping he's the sleeper in this year's freshman class. I really like this kid's hustle and tenaciousness.
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Most turnovers in a game under the Wojo regime. As best as I quickly scanned, the most by a MU team since the March 8, 2012 vs. Louisville in the BE Quarterfinal when Junior was putting passes in the tenth row of MSG.
On a side note, that game absolutely killed me
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MU was favored by 3 points at home in this game, lost by 8 for a net of -11 points.
I'm curious if anyone knows how many home games Wojo has lost against the spread. My guess is that he has to be one of the worst home coaches in MU history.
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MU was favored by 3 points at home in this game, lost by 8 for a net of -11 points.
I'm curious if anyone knows how many home games Wojo has lost against the spread. My guess is that he has to be one of the worst home coaches in MU history.
His record as MU head coach is now 117-82. Take away the cupcakes, and he might be under .500, hey?
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Is this your way of saying you’ll never call for his dismissal regardless of what results look like ad infinitum? If so I suppose I can ditch the sales pitch.
Not to put words in Rocky’s mouths, but I think he’s saying there’s no way the administration fires him in the year of a global pandemic.
His buyout is high and and admin can use the pandemic as an excuse for the season if it turns out poorly.
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Not to put words in Rocky’s mouths, but I think he’s saying there’s no way the administration fires him in the year of a global pandemic.
His buyout is high and and admin can use the pandemic as an excuse for the season if it turns out poorly.
Especially when you have a $45 million budget deficit and risk losing a very good freshman class.
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Not to put words in Rocky’s mouths, but I think he’s saying there’s no way the administration fires him in the year of a global pandemic.
His buyout is high and and admin can use the pandemic as an excuse for the season if it turns out poorly.
Administration doesn't have to listen to the booing fans either, chanting "Fire Wojo" this year.
Cash strapped university won't fire Wojo asap and that's all on the AD/Admins that handed out the poor contract.
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Not to put words in Rocky’s mouths, but I think he’s saying there’s no way the administration fires him in the year of a global pandemic.
His buyout is high and and admin can use the pandemic as an excuse for the season if it turns out poorly.
So we were the only program affected by the pandemic? Bummer.
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So we were the only program affected by the pandemic? Bummer.
I don't think you'll see much in regards to the coaching carousel anywhere in the country this season unless there's a massive scandal that involves the coach and the team.
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Were it not for the pandemic, Wojo would be on the hot seat this year. As it stands now, I think we’re stuck with him for a few more years, no matter the results.
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Were it not for the pandemic, Wojo would be on the hot seat this year. As it stands now, I think we’re stuck with him for a few more years, no matter the results.
Nah, I don't think that's true, if this year and the 2021-22 season goes south, I think that's curtains.
You can even see it on this board, even those who were pretty strong Wojo supporters for a long time (myself included) are just apathetic at this point. Which is kind of where I stand. Still am always going to hope for the best, but the end of last season just broke me. I really don't care to see Wojo on the sidelines anymore.
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Is this your way of saying you’ll never call for his dismissal regardless of what results look like ad infinitum? If so I suppose I can ditch the sales pitch.
Others have covered part of it. Also though, any fan yelling "fire wojo" is an idiot. I'm just a fan that hopes Marquette plays well and entertains me. You on the other hand, haven't been very entertaining.
The university will hire and fire at their will. I just try to enjoy what we have, and hope for the best.
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Dodd's the tool already blocked me this year after I posted the only bad matchup tonight was the head coach....
he is already spouting off the "rebuilding year" excuse - hmm, we are now in the 3rd rebuild in 7 years of Wojo....
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Dodd's the tool already blocked me this year after I posted the only bad matchup tonight was the head coach....
he is already spouting off the "rebuilding year" excuse - hmm, we are now in the 3rd rebuild in 7 years of Wojo....
We're rebuilding after that NIT Run........duhhh.
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Administration doesn't have to listen to the booing fans either, chanting "Fire Wojo" this year.
Now they just resort to turning off comments on IG posts after they all say #firewojo
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imagine banning someone cuz they posted a harmless view on your forum. oh the horror. someone critiqued wojo? bann!!😨😰😨. reason i aint been on ddods board in years. what a snowflake
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Really bad game for Wojo. He was out-coached, and by a pretty wide margin. No answer for the OSU defense, many curious decisions on who was out on the floor for us. The offense was downright depressing.
I never participate in or read game threads because I don't like feeling terrible while I'm watching a game that's making me feel terrible enough. But I take it from others' comments that some Scoopers were going after McEwen. Sh!t, he was our best player tonight, took on Cade as well as he could while also being the only player willing to attack on offense. Even hit a couple 3s. We had 1,000 problems tonight, and McEwen wasn't one of the top 999.
Lewis is more well-rounded than I thought he would be after reading about his recruitment. Excited to see how good he's going to get.
I did not follow Garcia in high school, so I don't know how many elite players he faced, but he got to see tonight that P6 college basketball is an entirely different world. Even guys who might not be as skilled as he is are long and tough and active and athletic and motivated. I thought Wojo sat him for way too long while the game was slipping away, however.
Still high on both Dawson and DJ. And the team, for that matter. I think we have some pretty good talent -- not over-the-moon talent, but pretty darn good -- and I think things will kick in as the season goes along. That goes for Wojo, too. At least I hope so.
I'm not gonna rip any of our players. It serves no purpose. And I fully disagree with those who say our guys stopped trying. That's BS. Just didn't play or coach well enough.
Oh, and I agree with Wojo (through cheese ball chaser) that "WE WON THIS GAME... BY A LOT!!!"
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So we were the only program affected by the pandemic? Bummer.
A few coaches survived last year because of the pandemic (Christian at BC in particular) and that was before budget deficits became reality. Buyouts are going to save the jobs of many coaches this season, especially at schools without huge donor bases .
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A few coaches survived last year because of the pandemic (Christian at BC in particular) and that was before budget deficits became reality. Buyouts are going to save the jobs of many coaches this season, especially at schools without huge donor bases .
Wojo - One of the first NCAA coaches to receive tenure due to a virus.
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This game was an embarassment!! MU looked like a pick up squad on which the players had never met before. Intiminated, not aggressive, no clue as to how to attack a zone, no adjustments by the coaching staff at halftime or any other. Shooting and rebounding (except for Theo) was uninspired and shameful. Inexcusable -- standing around faking a pass and/or a drive to the basket is not an offense. Garcia and Carton were non-factors. WI will feast.
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This game was an embarassment!! MU looked like a pick up squad on which the players had never met before. Intiminated, not aggressive, no clue as to how to attack a zone, no adjustments by the coaching staff at halftime or any other. Shooting and rebounding (except for Theo) was uninspired and shameful. Inexcusable -- standing around faking a pass and/or a drive to the basket is not an offense. Garcia and Carton were non-factors. WI will feast.
Wisconsin will feast, hence why if the spread is below 10 points, it's a great bet to make money on Wisco. I'd say Wisco wins by 15.
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Dodd's the tool already blocked me this year after I posted the only bad matchup tonight was the head coach....
he is already spouting off the "rebuilding year" excuse - hmm, we are now in the 3rd rebuild in 7 years of Wojo....
Dodds' place hasn't been the same since they got rid of their sophisticated political forum.
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Terrible offensive gameplan against the zone. Players just stood around, no off the ball movement, the absolute last thing you need against a zone. It would be one thing if the players tried but failed to execute against the zone. Then you can cut some slack and say a young team facing its first zone couldn't execute, they'll learn. This was not that. There was no semblance of a zone break offense. That's a coaching issue.
I know his shot was off, but Garcia needed to play 30+ minutes tonight. He is the ideal zone breaking player. He was the tallest guy on the court. I would have parked him at the free throw line every possession, gotten him the ball and let him shoot, drive, or playmake. There would have been misses, but they would have been better shots than what we were getting. I saw that happen three times in the second half. Two led to missed shots, one lead to a three by Cain. 3 points in 3 possession is a ppp of 1. That would have been more than enough to get a win. Again, this is a coaching issue.
I know we had concerns about their length, but we saw almost no lineups with Torrence and Carton together. I think those have been our most offensively efficient lineups to this point. Might have been worth trying in order to jump start the offense.
The box score says Theo had 6 TOs, is that correct? Length was bothering him down there but he missed a couple of wide open shooters when the defense collapsed on him. He was making those passes in the first two games.
With the team we have, we should never be slowing the game down and shooting in the last 5 seconds. Obviously, we should look for the best shot, but I think it is okay for us to have a quick trigger. Our rebounders will almost always be better than our opponents. Even if we miss, I think we have a very good chance of getting the offensive board and an easier shot on the second chance. Lewis with 13 boards in 22 minutes, that was a treat.
Symir's shot was terrible tonight. Tons of open looks for three, none of them even looked close to going in.
I wouldn't judge Akanno too harshly. Dude has had like two practices with the rest of the team. I think under normal circumstances, he would have been an ideal player for this game. These were not normal circumstances.
Every one of Carton's threes look like they are going in. I hope he doesn't have what Koby did last year. Once those shots start falling, I think we will see the team come together.
Koby was a dude tonight. 21 points with an eFG% of 50% (in a game where the team shot 40.6 eFG%).4 assists to 3 turnovers (in a game where the team had A/TO ratio of 13 to 24). And played stellar D on a future NBA All Star. I'd have to rewatch to be sure but I'm pretty sure Cunningham was 2 for 7 in the half court with Koby being the primary defender, and the two he made were contested mid-range jumpers.
The offensive gameplan pissed me off to no end. The only plus side I can come up with is that despite an awful offensive gameplan, we still had a chance to win this one. We shot uncharacteristically poorly from the line, we had a dumb technical foul, Cain/Carton/Torrence/Elliott/McEwen all had wide open looks from three that they couldn't convert on. Even with an atrocious attack against the zone, we could have the won the game and that's because of our defense and rebounding.
Beat Wisconsin and all is forgiven. Beat UCLA instead of Wisconsin and we are back on track for where we should be. Beat both and we won't even remember this game happened.
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This game was an embarassment!! MU looked like a pick up squad on which the players had never met before. Intiminated, not aggressive, no clue as to how to attack a zone, no adjustments by the coaching staff at halftime or any other. Shooting and rebounding (except for Theo) was uninspired and shameful. Inexcusable -- standing around faking a pass and/or a drive to the basket is not an offense. Garcia and Carton were non-factors. WI will feast.
Gameplan agreed.
Shooting agreed.
Rebounding? We outrebounded them 16 to 8 on the offensive glass and 27 to 26 on the defensive glass. John was great was on the boards but can I introduce you to Cain and Lewis? The three of them outrebounded Oklahoma State by themselves!
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Beat Wisconsin and all is forgiven. Beat UCLA instead of Wisconsin and we are back on track for where we should be. Beat both and we won't even remember this game happened.
Dream on.
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A few of Carton’s threes were halfway down, but I was expecting him to be a major impact player for MU this year. If that’s not the case, then expectations plummet to a bottom half big east team (in a weak conference this year) and an NIT bubble team. Carton and Garcia need to grow up very fast for this team to have any chance of an NCAA bid. Lewis looks promising and Theo looks improved/healthy, but this team is counting on Carton and Dawson to be the top two players. Everyone else you pretty much know what you are going to get (for this year anyway) and I don’t think it will cut it for NCAA unless those 2 play like all conference players.
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We'll see. The growth curve is what matters now.
for wojo.
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Also though, any fan yelling "fire wojo" is an idiot. I'm just a fan that hopes Marquette plays well and entertains me.
You need to try not to conflate disdain for Wojo with general disdain for MUBB. It’s a complete fallacy to paint those of us that have seen enough Wojo for one lifetime as traitorous MU fans.
I know what MUBB can be. And I know what they are not right now. It’s kind of like seeing your best friend lose his personality while in a relationship with a toxic new girlfriend. You don’t want the relationship to end because you hate your buddy and want to see him unhappy. Quite the opposite actually.
I too want Marquette to do well and to entertain me. Under Wojo’s watch, there hasn’t been much of either of those things.
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Cunningham > Carton, aina?
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Koby was very good tonight. And that was about it.
I would start DJ over Symir.
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Koby was very good tonight. And that was about it.
I would start DJ over Symir.
Agree with both.
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Cunningham > Carton, aina?
What’s your point? No one here is arguing Carton is better than a potential top 3 pick in next year’s draft.
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What’s your point? No one here is arguing Carton is better than a potential top 3 pick in next year’s draft.
Agreed. He also says we need more five star players. No one can argue that point either but it hasn’t happened since AL.
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Also TAMU, great summary.
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You need to try not to conflate disdain for Wojo with general disdain for MUBB. It’s a complete fallacy to paint those of us that have seen enough Wojo for one lifetime as traitorous MU fans.
I know what MUBB can be. And I know what they are not right now. It’s kind of like seeing your best friend lose his personality while in a relationship with a toxic new girlfriend. You don’t want the relationship to end because you hate your buddy and want to see him unhappy. Quite the opposite actually.
I too want Marquette to do well and to entertain me. Under Wojo’s watch, there hasn’t been much of either of those things.
I have honestly hoped (and still do) that Wojo will prove me wrong. I keep hoping that eventually he will dunk on all of his many critics here. Unfortunately, there is little reason to believe he ever will. What ever happened to "Five Years to Judge?".
I think the turning point after Wojo is gone will be identified as the embarrassing, humiliating Murray State game. Two days later one of the commentators said it all perfectly during the FSU/Murray State game. "Notice how the FSU players stay in their defensive positions. You don't see 5 guys collapsing on Morant." OUCH! The reason I say that the Murray State game will be seen as the pivotal game is the expression on Sam's face coming out of the early second half time out that Wojo called. His departure simply took a little while but I think it was the tipping point.
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I know we had concerns about their length, but we saw almost no lineups with Torrence and Carton together. I think those have been our most offensively efficient lineups to this point. Might have been worth trying in order to jump start the offense.
Could you expound on the Sy/DJ point? They have played together about 9% of the time and these two are the most offensively inefficient so far of the entire roster with time. Both have been dribbling East-West without much of a purpose other than bogging down the offense, and have really high turnover rates...just like they did last year. It is not an aberration and I would say DJ's handle is worse than Howard's...so I get your angle that DJ should be the 2 guard (if only his shots start falling).
Although it's early and there are certainly flashes, I am moving to the place where MU should move Koby back to PG (22.4 assist rate and 18.9 TO rate which are both better than the aforementioned two). Not ideal but he is at least making plays.
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The first big test each season often comes with a huge gut punch. There's a ton of time this season to correct and for improvement. However, it has definitely become an alarming trend. It's one thing to lose, but to lose playing ugly and undisciplined once again is a red flag. Lavin last night offered cover and support for Wojo near the end of the game, using the pandemic, the lack of practices to implement schemes, the introduction of new players to the team, etc. However, how did OK State with Boynton accomplish to incorporate their full court and half court zone looks, with many freshmen and new pieces, and adapt to Cunningham not going off?
Every program is in similar positions this year with regards to lack of practice and preparation. The coaching staffs that are skilled at in-game adjustments and instruction will have teams that are in better position to win and compete. Last night provided no assurances that this will be the case.
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What ever happened to "Five Years to Judge?".
When it became clear that five years wouldn’t be enough to “judge” Wojo, the line turned into, “Lots of stuff happened under Buzz. This is how things are now. If you don’t like it, find another team to root for.”
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TAMU said much of what I thought. What bewildered me was the zone offense. If I recall correctly, we saw their zone in the first half. How do you have that much time and not significantly adjust? I get that we lost the most effective flamethrower in the country, but there was nothing. It was either dribble around until the shot clock ran down or force a 1-on-3 drive.
Get Garcia in the middle of the zone, overload one side to open up a shooter on the opposite side, move the ball, do something.
What was frustrating is that the defense was pretty good. It was a good enough effort that we should've won, but the inability for anyone to create and missing shots on the rare opportunity when we did get decent looks just killed us. Once they stretched their lead to 7, even though it wasn't that far away, it never felt like we would get back in it. That was just 10 minutes of frustration and offensive ineptitude against the zone.
On the plus side, Wisconsin won't zone and doesn't have the athleticism to do what OSU did to us. I don't expect Friday to look anything like this. Doesn't mean I expect a win, but we won't lose in the same fashion. Of course, once the teams in the Big East see this tape...eek.
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The university will hire and fire at their will. I just try to enjoy what we have, and hope for the best.
This X 1000. Already looking forward to Friday. (Though agree with most of TAMU post.)
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The way MU slow walked the ball up and played catch on their side of the court with that light press drove me nuts. It guaranteed they had a short play clock on nearly every possession.
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My takeaways:
1a. This team might miss Sacar more than Markus at this point. No slashers on this team.
1b. No one on this team seems capable of creating their own shot, and I'm not quite clear what plays Wojo is running on offense to open things out. Brutal combo. Maybe this is just a symptom of 2 lost weeks of practice; maybe it's year 7 of Wojo.
1c.Our guards struggled to make good use of the PnR all night. We'd screen, and then hesitate to either fire or cut. If you're going to do that, just pick and pop Theo the entire game for comedic value.
2. In his run tonight, Garcia also seemed to confirm that he is best suited as a 4, even if Lewis or someone shorter is playing the 5. Feeding Garcia in the high post should open up a lot of opportunities for himself and others, but he has to do less standing around to get himself those looks.
3. Lewis was the most impressive player tonight. Some sloppiness and turnovers when he tried to put it on the deck, but the kid hustles all the time.
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The way MU slow walked the ball up and played catch on their side of the court with that light press drove me nuts. It guaranteed they had a short play clock on nearly every possession.
Yup.
If they couldn't beat the half-court zone, then have to try and beat the press with speed.
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When it became clear that five years wouldn’t be enough to “judge” Wojo, the line turned into, “Lots of stuff happened under Buzz. This is how things are now. If you don’t like it, find another team to root for.”
Loyalty to our country and loyalty to a president are 2 entirely different things, just as loyalty to Marquette and loyalty to Wojo are not linked. "If you don't like it..." is simply a knee jerk response and an attempt to stifle legitimate criticism of Wojo.
Wojo's high water mark was just before the meltdown in his 5th year. I was extremely happy to having to eat my words, at least for a while.
Last night was just the latest example of Wojo proving Einstein's definition of insanity- doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results.
To repeat- I really, really hope that Wojo pulls it all together but I do not expect him to do so on an ongoing basis. There will be games when he looks like he has turned the corner but will it last?
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TAMU said much of what I thought. What bewildered me was the zone offense. If I recall correctly, we saw their zone in the first half. How do you have that much time and not significantly adjust? I get that we lost the most effective flamethrower in the country, but there was nothing. It was either dribble around until the shot clock ran down or force a 1-on-3 drive.
Get Garcia in the middle of the zone, overload one side to open up a shooter on the opposite side, move the ball, do something.
What was frustrating is that the defense was pretty good. It was a good enough effort that we should've won, but the inability for anyone to create and missing shots on the rare opportunity when we did get decent looks just killed us. Once they stretched their lead to 7, even though it wasn't that far away, it never felt like we would get back in it. That was just 10 minutes of frustration and offensive ineptitude against the zone.
On the plus side, Wisconsin won't zone and doesn't have the athleticism to do what OSU did to us. I don't expect Friday to look anything like this. Doesn't mean I expect a win, but we won't lose in the same fashion. Of course, once the teams in the Big East see this tape...eek.
They did put Garcia in the middle of the zone but Ok St. did a nice job having another player shade towards him to take it away. The problem for there was we had no other answers, either to find another way to get him the ball in the high post or another way to attack the zone. Either way it was incredibly disappointing.
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Loyalty to our country and loyalty to a president are 2 entirely different things, just as loyalty to Marquette and loyalty to Wojo are not linked. "If you don't like it..." is simply a knee jerk response and an attempt to stifle legitimate criticism of Wojo.
Wojo's high water mark was just before the meltdown in his 5th year. I was extremely happy to having to eat my words, at least for a while.
Last night was just the latest example of Wojo proving Einstein's definition of insanity- doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results.
To repeat- I really, really hope that Wojo pulls it all together but I do not expect him to do so on an ongoing basis. There will be games when he looks like he has turned the corner but will it last?
It's the most frustrating thing about him - there have been these glimpses where it looks like he's putting it together and we've turned a corner. Then we lose 7 of 8.
Nothing would make me happier than for Wojo to succeed, but he ain't doing it.
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The way MU slow walked the ball up and played catch on their side of the court with that light press drove me nuts. It guaranteed they had a short play clock on nearly every possession.
A signature of Wojo's teams... The way to kill a press off is attack it and score on it, but they're content just getting the ball to the frontcourt.
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They did put Garcia in the middle of the zone but Ok St. did a nice job having another player shade towards him to take it away. The problem for there was we had no other answers, either to find another way to get him the ball in the high post or another way to attack the zone. Either way it was incredibly disappointing.
You are correct. They did have Garcia in the middle of the zone and it seemed very difficult to get him the ball. We also had many open looks from three and simply bricked the shots (a few were in and out). When we drove to the hoop (mainly McEwen) many times there were no calls even though he got hammered with the body and the arms were coming down. There were also many good idea passes not completed leading to turnovers either due to the length and quickness of ok st or simply just bad passes. Even minus the head scratching turnovers with our defensive effort last night we should have won. The out of time outs turnovers were baffling though. I hope Wojo can right the ship on offense slowly but surely. I think if the defense continues this is a team that will get better as the year goes on as opposed to the other way around. We shall see.
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Terrible offensive gameplan against the zone. Players just stood around, no off the ball movement, the absolute last thing you need against a zone. It would be one thing if the players tried but failed to execute against the zone. Then you can cut some slack and say a young team facing its first zone couldn't execute, they'll learn. This was not that. There was no semblance of a zone break offense. That's a coaching issue.
I know his shot was off, but Garcia needed to play 30+ minutes tonight. He is the ideal zone breaking player. He was the tallest guy on the court. I would have parked him at the free throw line every possession, gotten him the ball and let him shoot, drive, or playmake. There would have been misses, but they would have been better shots than what we were getting. I saw that happen three times in the second half. Two led to missed shots, one lead to a three by Cain. 3 points in 3 possession is a ppp of 1. That would have been more than enough to get a win. Again, this is a coaching issue.
I know we had concerns about their length, but we saw almost no lineups with Torrence and Carton together. I think those have been our most offensively efficient lineups to this point. Might have been worth trying in order to jump start the offense.
The box score says Theo had 6 TOs, is that correct? Length was bothering him down there but he missed a couple of wide open shooters when the defense collapsed on him. He was making those passes in the first two games.
With the team we have, we should never be slowing the game down and shooting in the last 5 seconds. Obviously, we should look for the best shot, but I think it is okay for us to have a quick trigger. Our rebounders will almost always be better than our opponents. Even if we miss, I think we have a very good chance of getting the offensive board and an easier shot on the second chance. Lewis with 13 boards in 22 minutes, that was a treat.
Symir's shot was terrible tonight. Tons of open looks for three, none of them even looked close to going in.
I wouldn't judge Akanno too harshly. Dude has had like two practices with the rest of the team. I think under normal circumstances, he would have been an ideal player for this game. These were not normal circumstances.
Every one of Carton's threes look like they are going in. I hope he doesn't have what Koby did last year. Once those shots start falling, I think we will see the team come together.
Koby was a dude tonight. 21 points with an eFG% of 50% (in a game where the team shot 40.6 eFG%).4 assists to 3 turnovers (in a game where the team had A/TO ratio of 13 to 24). And played stellar D on a future NBA All Star. I'd have to rewatch to be sure but I'm pretty sure Cunningham was 2 for 7 in the half court with Koby being the primary defender, and the two he made were contested mid-range jumpers.
The offensive gameplan pissed me off to no end. The only plus side I can come up with is that despite an awful offensive gameplan, we still had a chance to win this one. We shot uncharacteristically poorly from the line, we had a dumb technical foul, Cain/Carton/Torrence/Elliott/McEwen all had wide open looks from three that they couldn't convert on. Even with an atrocious attack against the zone, we could have the won the game and that's because of our defense and rebounding.
Beat Wisconsin and all is forgiven. Beat UCLA instead of Wisconsin and we are back on track for where we should be. Beat both and we won't even remember this game happened.
Superb analysis. I was very disappointed with the coaching last night. It's on Wojo, obviously, but before the head coach goes into the LR at halftime, he talks for several minutes with his assistants. So apparently none of them had any solutions, either.
Cunningham > Carton, aina?
Giannis > Connaughton, oona?
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Marquette isn't getting good enough guard play. And I'm not talking about McEwen.
I am surprised Sy isn't significantly improved this year.
Carton has been undisciplined, and indecisive at times, at both ends.
Greg would arguably be their best guard if he were healthy. He really understands the game. Greg isn't going to ever be healthy at MU. His slow footspeed just hasn't improved from his injuries.
Others don't seem ready.
Jamal is trying to fill the Sacar role.
MU needs much better guard play.
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MU needs much better guard play.
Agreed. People have already talked about how Carton needs to step up but holy crap was Torrence useless last night. Just terrible
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Marquette isn't getting good enough guard play. And I'm not talking about McEwen.
I am surprised Sy isn't significantly improved this year.
Carton has been undisciplined, and indecisive at times, at both ends.
Greg would arguably be their best guard if he were healthy. He really understands the game. Greg isn't going to ever be healthy at MU. His slow footspeed just hasn't improved from his injuries.
Others don't seem ready.
Jamal is trying to fill the Sacar role.
MU needs much better guard play.
Correct on all fronts
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To repeat- I really, really hope that Wojo pulls it all together but I do not expect him to do so on an ongoing basis. There will be games when he looks like he has turned the corner but will it last?
Brother Snoop:
So do I. If we have to start over, it will be three to five years from the date of the Wojo extraction before we get good again. And, who knows whether with the current economic environment, the Jesuits won't go cheap again -- like they did post Al.
The only way I see Wojo to get to the "next level" is to hire a Jerry Wainwright/Hank Raymonds-type of bench coach. Both those guys knew the game and were great first assistants. I'd love to see someone like Steve Lavin leave the broadcast booth and become our 1a to help run games. Basically, we can acknowledge Wojo as the HC, but he needs a better game manager and someone with a little gray hair.
Otherwise, OMG it's just hoping for an occasional win over Villanova. And, I'M TIRED OF IN-SEASON HIGHLIGHTS!!!!
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The more I think about it, there was a sequence where we cut the lead to 8 from 11 off a 3, then we had a stop, great pass from Garcia to Jamal on the wing, he misses it, then stop, then I want to say missed layup. That sequence to me was the epitome of the second half. We finally had something go through the hoop and couldn't capitalize. I think Jamal hits that second three and maybe we get some momentum but we couldn't shoot the ball into lake michigan