MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: 1SE on November 26, 2020, 04:26:23 AM
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It was APB - we're not going to look that good every night. But even before getting to see the product on the court I really liked it on paper.
There have definitely been better players on Wojo's watch, but is this the best overall TEAM? There are just so many pieces that I love.
Theo - a MAN's body. Senior leadership. A beast in the paint. Maybe learning how to play within himself? Who knew being able to use two hands would matter.
DJ - a true PG. 'nough said.
Dawson - a super-stretch 4. A Steve Novak that can get to the rim and defend.
Jose - Another man's body in a wing.
Quality senior leadership and offensive spark in Koby and Jamal - on any given night either could pop for 20.
Quality depth at almost all positions - Greg, Symir, Oso, Justin
I just can't think of any piece that is missing from this team. I think it's the best top to bottom team we've seen in Wojo's tenure.
It will be a major shame if we don't see how far this team and develop/go. It will also be a major indictment if Wojo can't make this team more than the sum of its parts. This is the year to do it.
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I'm reserving judgment until at least after Tuesday.
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It was APB - we're not going to look that good every night. But even before getting to see the product on the court I really liked it on paper.
There have definitely been better players on Wojo's watch, but is this the best overall TEAM? There are just so many pieces that I love.
Theo - a MAN's body. Senior leadership. A beast in the paint. Maybe learning how to play within himself? Who knew being able to use two hands would matter.
DJ - a true PG. 'nough said.
Dawson - a super-stretch 4. A Steve Novak that can get to the rim and defend.
Jose - Another man's body in a wing.
Quality senior leadership and offensive spark in Koby and Jamal - on any given night either could pop for 20.
Quality depth at almost all positions - Greg, Symir, Oso, Justin
I just can't think of any piece that is missing from this team. I think it's the best top to bottom team we've seen in Wojo's tenure.
It will be a major shame if we don't see how far this team and develop/go. It will also be a major indictment if Wojo can't make this team more than the sum of its parts. This is the year to do it.
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Don’t forget about the legend of Dexter
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Agree, that this is Wojo's most talented team loaded across the board with players who can compete. Foul trouble will not be an issue this year. The depth should allow for a super aggressive defense. Also hope this team fast breaks a lot.
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Back up post against a good team. It was Arkansas Pine-Bluff. Beware the 'Magic Dawson' talk.
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It’s the first team he’s truly in charge of.
‘15 was Buzz’s guys
‘16 was Henry
‘17-‘20 Markus
This is now Wojo time. Everything he’s learned he can now implement. Everything he’s wanted to adjust he can. He’s free.
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You've got some good points, but lets see how they do against teams in the top 350. Dealing with six newbies and there will be some bumps. The question is, if they do outperform expectations how much of the credit goes to Wojo? And, conversely, if they tank, how much is on him?
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It’s the first team he’s truly in charge of.
‘15 was Buzz’s guys
‘16 was Henry
‘17-‘20 Markus
This is now Wojo time. Everything he’s learned he can now implement. Everything he’s wanted to adjust he can. He’s free.
So a grown man who has been coach for 7 years can finally lead his team? Then MU should have let him learn his trade somewhere else.
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As I was watching the game last night, I was thinking the same thing. This might be Wojo's best and complete team. In year's prior, he had to build the offense around one guy (Henry, Markus). He now has multiple options on offense.
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We'll see.
We'll know a ton more in a month. Right now, we only know that we are twice as good as APB and have a lot of potential.
If we're able to actually play all (or at least most) of our games, ask again at about 9 p.m. on Dec. 23.
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I loved the passing but seriously, it was Arkansas Pine-Bluff. Let's see how we do against a team not ranked #353 by KenPom.
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I loved the passing but seriously, it was Arkansas Pine-Bluff. Let's see how we do against a team not ranked #353 by KenPom.
A whole lot of 'Magic Dawson vs Grambling' vibe.
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A whole lot of 'Magic Dawson vs Grambling' vibe.
Yep. Love the optimism but...
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Naw. Could not even put up 100 pts yesterday. Very overrated.
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We had a pretty good "team" in 2016-17.
Ellenson was gone and Markus was not yet MARKUS!
Five guys averaged between 10.8 and 13.2 ppg, and seven guys averaged at least 8.7. Those same seven guys averaged between 6.3 and 9.3 FGA.
We didn't play very good D, we were too young in a few spots, and we got an unfortunate NCAA assignment -- a very good (eventual FF) SCaro team in Greenville -- but the guys got along and played well together. And Wojo, in Year 3, seemed to have the program on a very good trajectory.
This season's team has the potential to be quite a bit better in all facets.
We'll see.
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I will say it looks like a Big East team. Big guards, length and athleticism in the frontcourt, only 3 skinny players, and only one slow player (Perez).
The only thing missing is a true knockdown shooter. But very good passing and hopefully enough outside shooting to get it done.
Now, can they do it against better competition?
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I will say it looks like a Big East team. Big guards, length and athleticism in the frontcourt, only 3 skinny players, and only one slow player (Perez).
The only thing missing is a true knockdown shooter. But very good passing and hopefully enough outside shooting to get it done.
Now, can they do it against better competition?
I’d like to see how they do against a man to man defense too. Not yet sold on their quickness.
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It’s nice to see some enthusiasm on Scoop but let’s pump the brakes.
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Talent wise probably not, but I think this team will have the best chemistry of any Wojo team. Lots of unselfish players and great depth so I expect them to get better as the season progresses which hasn’t happened under Wojo the last few years.
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I’d like to see how they do against a man to man defense too. Not yet sold on their quickness.
Carton has elite speed. Torrence has good speed.
McEwen has average speed in the Joe Chapman mold.
Elliott needs to get healthy to see if he regains his quickness.
John and Lewis have good enough speed for their size. Garcia's skill level is high enough that he doesn't need elite quickness.
Cain is quick enough as long as he isn't dribbling.
Perez is the only one that looks overmatched athletically. But he's strong and smart.
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We just gonna ignore the fact that the OP compared Dawson, who is a very polished Freshman, to one of the greatest pure shooters in program history? I think Dawson will be a very good player, but he aint no Novak shooting-wise.
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I get the optimism because it was such a decisive opener. The only better opening performance we've seen from a Wojo team was 2016-17 when we drilled Vanderbilt at the Naval Academy. But while we held them to 0.75 ppp, this is a team that had an adjusted offensive efficiency of 79.0 last year, which was the worst out of any team of the past 5 years (more than 1,700 teams). Eastern Illinois and Oklahoma State will be far better barometers of how good we are. Plenty of mediocre Marquette teams have drilled inferior competition. Alabama A&M in 2014-15, Grambling in 2015-16, American in 2017-18 were all resounding wins over teams that were simply overmatched, but it didn't get Marquette a NCAA bid.
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Cautiously optimistic. Let’s see how they play against Eastern Illinois who lost by ten to the badgers. Blow the doors off them like apb and I start to get more optimistic for that badger game.
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Carton has elite speed. Torrence has good speed.
McEwen has average speed in the Joe Chapman mold.
Elliott needs to get healthy to see if he regains his quickness.
John and Lewis have good enough speed for their size. Garcia's skill level is high enough that he doesn't need elite quickness.
Cain is quick enough as long as he isn't dribbling.
Perez is the only one that looks overmatched athletically. But he's strong and smart.
Yeah said I wasn’t sold on their speed.
You telling me they’re speedy isn’t going to do it for me either.
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I think this is probably the most well rounded team and probably the most depth.
But considering a lot of it is inexperience(at MU and overall) that definitely does not mean its the best, yet.
I am with everyone else and saying yesterdays game was against a team so bad you cant judge yet.
Win solidly tomorrow, beat Okstate and at least hang with Bucky. That'll say a lot.
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I loved the passing but seriously, it was Arkansas Pine-Bluff. Let's see how we do against a team not ranked #353 by KenPom.
Exactly. Let's give it some time.
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Cautiously optimistic. Let’s see how they play against Eastern Illinois who lost by ten to the badgers. Blow the doors off them like apb and I start to get more optimistic for that badger game.
Badgers were up 23 at the half. They let off the gas obviously.
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I get the optimism because it was such a decisive opener. The only better opening performance we've seen from a Wojo team was 2016-17 when we drilled Vanderbilt at the Naval Academy. But while we held them to 0.75 ppp, this is a team that had an adjusted offensive efficiency of 79.0 last year, which was the worst out of any team of the past 5 years (more than 1,700 teams). Eastern Illinois and Oklahoma State will be far better barometers of how good we are. Plenty of mediocre Marquette teams have drilled inferior competition. Alabama A&M in 2014-15, Grambling in 2015-16, American in 2017-18 were all resounding wins over teams that were simply overmatched, but it didn't get Marquette a NCAA bid.
Agreed with the comparisons to other blow out wins against inferior opponents. However, watching the new components of this team yesterday was encouraging. I also agree that the Eastern Illinois game and Oklahoma State games will be telling. If we play well and win those games it will start to feel like the beginning of something better than I was expecting. These next few games have a Great Alaskan shootout feeling to them for me. I like the look of multiple players on this team. Do it against better competition and I’m in.
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Yeah said I wasn’t sold on their speed.
You telling me they’re speedy isn’t going to do it for me either.
You inferred incorrectly. I was more or less pointing out a mixed bag.
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It was APB - we're not going to look that good every night. But even before getting to see the product on the court I really liked it on paper.
There have definitely been better players on Wojo's watch, but is this the best overall TEAM? There are just so many pieces that I love.
Theo - a MAN's body. Senior leadership. A beast in the paint. Maybe learning how to play within himself? Who knew being able to use two hands would matter.
DJ - a true PG. 'nough said.
Dawson - a super-stretch 4. A Steve Novak that can get to the rim and defend.
Jose - Another man's body in a wing.
Quality senior leadership and offensive spark in Koby and Jamal - on any given night either could pop for 20.
Quality depth at almost all positions - Greg, Symir, Oso, Justin
I just can't think of any piece that is missing from this team. I think it's the best top to bottom team we've seen in Wojo's tenure.
It will be a major shame if we don't see how far this team and develop/go. It will also be a major indictment if Wojo can't make this team more than the sum of its parts. This is the year to do it.
lets reconvene after the UW game
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lets reconvene after the UW game
Nah. Set up a false narrative now so you can rip on wojo later
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Badgers were up 23 at the half. They let off the gas obviously.
True ... but if we had done the same there would have been some rippers here.
Doesn't Wojo know you have to run up the score? We can't afford to take any possessions off. Blah blah blah.
Agreed with the comparisons to other blow out wins against inferior opponents. However, watching the new components of this team yesterday was encouraging. I also agree that the Eastern Illinois game and Oklahoma State games will be telling. If we play well and win those games it will start to feel like the beginning of something better than I was expecting. These next few games have a Great Alaskan shootout feeling to them for me. I like the look of multiple players on this team. Do it against better competition and I’m in.
Yessir. E Illinois is a step up from APB; that's damning with faint praise, as almost any team would be. A week from tomorrow, we'll know quite a bit more about our heroes. And by Xmas, we should know if we have a tourney team or not.
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One Game, One Win. Lots of smiles, no more than that. Hope is one thing, Rush to judgement another. Can not believe that to some this seems to be their First Rodeo.
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You don't learn a lot from games like this. But there are things to look for.
1. Team play. It was outstanding. Even as guys looked to make the extra pass, almost everybody was looking for good shots as well. Nobody was looking to defer to someone else.
2. Skill levels. Some good things here. Dawson is gonna be better than advertised. Ellenson-level skills, but looks to be a better shooter. Carton is gonna be a stud on both ends of the floor. Theo has gotten better at Theo-type things. Lewis and Oso are better at this point - skills-wise, than Theo was as a freshman. Koby, without elite level skills, is pretty decent at everything. Cain & Elliot, despite some limitations, have skills on both ends of the floor.
I'm looking forward to the next few games where the competition gets better and we can see where everyone stands against better teams.
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Definately Wojo's deepest team...really doesn't matter though because Wojo will find a way to screw it up. Hopeful this is Wojo's last year and we can fins someone who can win a few games down the stretch instead of the Wojo collapse.
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We had a pretty good "team" in 2016-17.
Ellenson was gone and Markus was not yet MARKUS!
Five guys averaged between 10.8 and 13.2 ppg, and seven guys averaged at least 8.7. Those same seven guys averaged between 6.3 and 9.3 FGA.
We didn't play very good D, we were too young in a few spots, and we got an unfortunate NCAA assignment -- a very good (eventual FF) SCaro team in Greenville -- but the guys got along and played well together. And Wojo, in Year 3, seemed to have the program on a very good trajectory.
This season's team has the potential to be quite a bit better in all facets.
We'll see.
Probably the best competitor
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I dont know of this will be wojos most successful team, but I meam best in the sense that there is no glaring hole. Markus was great, but him.being able to put up 50 papered over a lot.of cracks
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Most impressed with the newcomers. I expected Dawson to be good but his touch inside and passing from the high post is going to be really helpful. DJ is quick and seems to have a pulse on the offense and how to run the show. Once he gets more comfortable I really like what he adds. Lewis has a knack for the ball and a nice touch around the hoop too.
Dare I say Theo John might be a decent free throw shooter now? What was he, 8/9?
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Most impressed with the newcomers. I expected Dawson to be good but his touch inside and passing from the high post is going to be really helpful. DJ is quick and seems to have a pulse on the offense and how to run the show. Once he gets more comfortable I really like what he adds. Lewis has a knack for the ball and a nice touch around the hoop too.
Dare I say Theo John might be a decent free throw shooter now? What was he, 8/9?
9/10. Really impressive from him. I'll be overjoyed if he stays north of 70%.
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9/10. Really impressive from him. I'll be overjoyed if he stays north of 70%.
The form looked very good, no hitch and no long hesitation. He acted like he knew they were going in.
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Didn't have a broken wrist to distract him.
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Theo’s free throw shooting last year was even greatly improved from previous years(still not great).
So with a good wrist I think it’s definitely reasonable to expect he can at least be mid 60s for a full year
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I’m still not sure about that 2 position. I think it’s the biggest question mark on the team. Someone needs to claim it. Will it be Kobe? Jose? Dexter? Greg?
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I’m still not sure about that 2 position. I think it’s the biggest question mark on the team. Someone needs to claim it. Will it be Kobe? Jose? Dexter? Greg?
The good thing is there’s flexibility. If Symir steps up and shows he’s capable of running the point, DJ can play the 2. If Koby steps up, DJ can play the 1. If both step up, Sy can play the 1, DJ the 2, and Koby the 3. Jose and Greg can also step up if Koby doesn’t.
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I’m still not sure about that 2 position. I think it’s the biggest question mark on the team. Someone needs to claim it. Will it be Kobe? Jose? Dexter? Greg?
I like Koby off the ball. Three & D. Throw in some rebounds, as well.
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If Koby finds his shot, MU might be better than you think. But this year, if he does not, there are other players hopefully capable to take his place. I was opening it was Akanno, but now I am just hopeful he become healthy.
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Greg is a career 40% three point shooter, and while he'll always be a bit gangly, he looked more filled out than he's ever been before. The problem is, he's not great at creating his own shot. If DJ is as good of a distributor as billed, he won't need to be. Also needs to stay healthy.
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I bet you the Xavier fans were having the same conversation until today. We need to play better competition to decide how good we are.
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Xavier is not very good.
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Xavier is not very good.
We could be saying the same thing about ourselves if we're in a 1-2 possession game with EIU tomorrow.
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Badgers were up 23 at the half. They let off the gas obviously.
obviously inferior coaching by Gard.
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Is this Wojo's best TEAM?
Beat Bucky and they have my vote.
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Yes, definitely require more games against higher competition to form a stronger opinion.
Steve Lavin said MU is a tournament quality team whom could go fairly deep.
Lavin may have just been plugging for a BEAST team, but felt good to hear him say it regardless.
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We could be saying the same thing about ourselves if we're in a 1-2 possession game with EIU tomorrow.
We could have been, but we weren't. The guys took care of business early, got a nice lead, and unlike Madison gradually built on it. Very satisfying win against a veteran team with some talent.
I especially liked the defense, both individually and help.
We still don't really know what we have. Looking forward to seeing how we stack up against the OSU Cades and the Madison Nut-Punchers.
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Turnovers looks to be a concern again. They had 15 last night, 14 against APB. Way too many given the opponents. Should be single digits against these teams.
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Turnovers looks to be a concern again. They had 15 last night, 14 against APB. Way too many given the opponents. Should be single digits against these teams.
Agreed, but I do wonder if that's a trend across the nation given the COVID rust
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Turnovers last night. Lewis getting deked by a defender on an outlet pass, leading to a dragged pivot foot. Freshman. Dribblers falling down again. It is like DJ has bad shoes. Lewis firing a fastball from 4 ft to a cutting Garcia. Symir dribbling too much.
Two weeks of missed practice. 48 ppg left and everybody is finding a new role. So......many.....newcomers. Patience.
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Agreed, but I do wonder if that's a trend across the nation given the COVID rust
Maybe. And it’s so early and they’re not real experienced. But we know being way too loose with the ball has been an all too common theme under Wojo. That’s why I’m very skeptical in letting it pass for other reasons.
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Agreed, but I do wonder if that's a trend across the nation given the COVID rust
MU turnover rate 19.6% versus 19.9% nationally. Last season, MU was at 18.8% versus 18.9% nationally. So, the turnover rate is only about 5% more this season overall.
MU's length of possession is quick at 15.3 vs. 16.6 nationally, however. Last season, MU was 16.5 versus 17.3% nationally. Ergo, these early cupcake games are quicker so the number of turns look higher but the rates are about the same.
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We could have been, but we weren't. The guys took care of business early, got a nice lead, and unlike Madison gradually built on it. Very satisfying win against a veteran team with some talent.
I especially liked the defense, both individually and help.
We still don't really know what we have. Looking forward to seeing how we stack up against the OSU Cades and the Madison Nut-Punchers.
When EIU got it to 10 and Josiah Wallace was rolling, I was interested to see how we'd respond. Re-establishing the lead and holding it was impressive. As you say, we'll see how the next two go, but I'm encouraged by our results against the cupcakes and at this point, couldn't be much more pleased by this young but talented team.
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When EIU got it to 10 and Josiah Wallace was rolling, I was interested to see how we'd respond. Re-establishing the lead and holding it was impressive. As you say, we'll see how the next two go, but I'm encouraged by our results against the cupcakes and at this point, couldn't be much more pleased by this young but talented team.
I agree with this. That was a very encouraging stretch of the last game. Talent wise I think we can compete with better teams (OK St. and Wisconsin). Whether we win or not may depend on our experience. I believe this team has good bones and will get better as the season goes on. Very excited to see these players develop.
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I think this is where upper classmen/senior leadership will be invaluable. Set an example for the underclassmen.
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When EIU got it to 10 and Josiah Wallace was rolling, I was interested to see how we'd respond. Re-establishing the lead and holding it was impressive. As you say, we'll see how the next two go, but I'm encouraged by our results against the cupcakes and at this point, couldn't be much more pleased by this young but talented team.
You betcha!
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I think this is where upper classmen/senior leadership will be invaluable. Set an example for the underclassmen.
Well said.
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I'm reserving judgment until at least after Tuesday.
Last year I was pretty impressed with Cain and Torrence until they started playing in Big East. I am withholding judgement until they show they can physically compete against Big East players. However, I do think Torrence looks stronger than last year.
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So now that we’re goodish, when does the Wojo to ————— postings begin?
It’s about as preposterous.
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I’m hopeful about this year’s team. A good mix of youth and experience, size and athleticism. They share the ball and work hard on the defensive end. I won’t get too far out over my skis in November, though.
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I would love to have a pipeline of Theos. Maybe not they are 4 year starters, but a wide bodied, athletic big who improves throughout their career. Maybe every 2 years or so. Is that difficult for a non-5 star?
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I’m hopeful about this year’s team. A good mix of youth and experience, size and athleticism. They share the ball and work hard on the defensive end. I won’t get too far out over my skis in November, though.
+1. But two more wins next week and I’ll start to get a little over them (skis).
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To answer your question and get to the point.... simply.
YES IT IS.
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I’m hopeful about this year’s team. A good mix of youth and experience, size and athleticism. They share the ball and work hard on the defensive end. I won’t get too far out over my skis in November, though.
Agree, especially given the opposition thus far. As said by another poster, this team passes the eye test though. But my concern is always going to be the man in charge when competition ramps up significantly, and as March arrives. My confidence in him is almost zero.
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To answer your question and get to the point.... simply.
YES IT IS.
Yeah you can’t make that assessment after two buy games.
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I would say that is his most balanced and possibly complete team.....
After all there in no "I" in team......
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I would say that is his most balanced and possibly complete team.....
After all there in no "I" in team...... but there is ME ! ! ! lol 8-)
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And there is an 'I' in win.
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I’m going with “no.”
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I would say that is his most balanced and possibly complete team.....
After all there in no "I" in team......
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Let's hope not.
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I miss Markus taking 40% of our shots
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Looking for that jumping to conclusions mat.
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Pieces of the puzzle are fine. It's just who is putting them together.
Seems Wojo is just as ineffective a coach with a balanced team as with a star-dominated one. I guess that isn't really a surprise.
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This is like asking whose poop stinks the least.