MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: geps on November 09, 2020, 04:58:50 PM
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I agree 100%
https://collegehoopstoday.com/index.php/rothstein-files/5-teams-that-could-overachieve-during-the-20-21-season/ (https://collegehoopstoday.com/index.php/rothstein-files/5-teams-that-could-overachieve-during-the-20-21-season/)
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All 10 kids on scholarship can play, how Wojo figures out how to use them, will decide how good they will be.
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I agree 100%
https://collegehoopstoday.com/index.php/rothstein-files/5-teams-that-could-overachieve-during-the-20-21-season/ (https://collegehoopstoday.com/index.php/rothstein-files/5-teams-that-could-overachieve-during-the-20-21-season/)
Wojo must have returned his calls
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Could? Sure.
Unlikely though.
Wojo has yet to demonstrate an ability to make a team greater than the sum of its parts.
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Could? Sure.
Unlikely though.
Wojo has yet to demonstrate an ability to make a team greater than the sum of its parts.
I think that’s kind of his point. The parts are being underrated.
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Everyone blames Wojo for epic collapses after reaching the Top 10/15 without ever giving him any credit for actually getting to the Top 10/15.
So maybe he isn't as bad as everyone wants him to be.
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I think that’s kind of his point. The parts are being underrated.
I think that was kind of his point. Wojo doesn't make the parts up to their potential.
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I think that was kind of his point. Wojo doesn't make the parts up to their potential.
Exactly. Back-to-back season ending flameouts support your assessment.
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Everyone blames Wojo for epic collapses after reaching the Top 10/15 without ever giving him any credit for actually getting to the Top 10/15.
So maybe he isn't as bad as everyone wants him to be.
And then he repeated the collapse and showed no proof that’s he’s able to learn from his past
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I would say that Wojo teams live up to their level but rarely rise significantly above it. They have generally performed to pre-season KenPom with one notable exception. (When Henry was a freshman.). Last year wasn’t great either but of course the season wasn’t complete.
2019-20: Preseason: 17, Final: 31
2018-19: Preseason: 29, Final: 33
2017-18: Preseason: 49, Final: 53
2016-17: Preseason: 47, Final: 32
2015-16: Preseason: 54, Final: 97
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Overachieving would be nice.
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I would say that Wojo teams live up to their level but rarely rise significantly above it. They have generally performed to pre-season KenPom with one notable exception. (When Henry was a freshman.). Last year wasn’t great either but of course the season wasn’t complete.
2019-20: Preseason: 17, Final: 31
2018-19: Preseason: 29, Final: 33
2017-18: Preseason: 49, Final: 53
2016-17: Preseason: 47, Final: 32
2015-16: Preseason: 54, Final: 97
Not good for a program like MU. Zero top 30 finishes. Uhg!
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Everyone blames Wojo for epic collapses after reaching the Top 10/15 without ever giving him any credit for actually getting to the Top 10/15.
So maybe he isn't as bad as everyone wants him to be.
No one actually wants him to be bad. They just think he is a bad or at the very most average. Everyone would love to be proven wrong. Despite Markus Howard, MU is only relevant to hard core college basketball fans because we’ve had several entertaining regular season wins and haven’t been a complete doormat. No casual fan thinks we are relevant right now. Until Wojo coaches the boys up for once this pattern of irrelevance will continue and many MU fans will want him fired.
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Overachieving would be nice.
That would be nice. The only season where he has really surprised was 2016-17, which ended in a first round loss, but you still felt the future was bright with Sam and Markus as freshmen.
But it ever really went anywhere after that.
Ultimately he is a decent (but not great) recruiter and a C-level bench coach. Good enough to get into the dance many years, but not really go anywhere.
So could he overachieve this year? Sure. But it would look at lot like 2016-17, which would be fine, but he would need to build from that.
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That would be nice. The only season where he has really surprised was 2016-17, which ended in a first round loss, but you still felt the future was bright with Sam and Markus as freshmen.
But it ever really went anywhere after that.
Ultimately he is a decent (but not great) recruiter and a C-level bench coach. Good enough to get into the dance many years, but not really go anywhere.
So could he overachieve this year? Sure. But it would look at lot like 2016-17, which would be fine, but he would need to build from that.
Brother Fluff:
I agree wholeheartedly with you. And the 2016-2017 team made the tournament in no small measure because of one game — the upset of Villanova. Had we lost that game, we’d have been an NIT team for sure.
Objectively, this year’s team with Carton, Garcia, Fields Lewis and Koby has the makings of a very good team. If Theo stays out of foul trouble, we have something really cool. But to get the freshmen ready and to coach up Akanno is going to take a lot of work as is getting the most we can from Cain and Greg.
Whether Projo or Nojo, this is really the year when either things start to come together or we may not be relevant in the college basketball circle for a long time to come.
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Brother Fluff:
I agree wholeheartedly with you. And the 2016-2017 team made the tournament in no small measure because of one game — the upset of Villanova. Had we lost that game, we’d have been an NIT team for sure.
Objectively, this year’s team with Carton, Garcia, Fields and Koby has the makings of a very good team. If Theo stays out of foul trouble, we have something really cool. But to get the freshmen ready and to coach up Akanno is going to take a lot of work as is getting the most we can from Cain and Greg.
Whether Projo or Nojo, this is really the year when either things start to come together or we may not be relevant in the college basketball circle for a long time to come.
I'm really looking forward to this Fields guy. I've heard his name mentioned here a number of times, but can't find much on him. Hoping he can be the diamond in the rough we've been missing out on by not using our last 2 scholarships on flyers!
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Yea, there's no faster way to convince me that you have no clue what you're talking about than when you don't know the names of players, especially considering that this has happened multiple times now. Guess this is just the new "It's Markus, not Marcus".
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Love ya too DJ!
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I'll believe MU overachieves under Wojo again the next time they overachieve. Been burned too much the last three years (and they did overachieve in '17 IMHO).
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Looking forward to cheering on our guys this season.
We Are Marquette!
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Looking forward to cheering on our guys this season.
We Are Marquette!
AGREED! We can all get behind this.
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Is it a uniquely Marquette fan thing to b*tch when a national writer says something slightly positive about the team, or does it happen everywhere?
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Is it a uniquely Marquette fan thing to b*tch when a national writer says something slightly positive about the team, or does it happen everywhere?
It happens a lot of places but is definitely quite loud here
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Is it a uniquely Marquette fan thing to b*tch when a national writer says something slightly positive about the team, or does it happen everywhere?
They will b*tch enough that multiple podcasts have running jokes about Marquette fans never being satisfied with where you have them ranked/the attention you give them, but then when someone says something positive they b*tch about there being no chance we actually achieve what the writer says.
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I think that was kind of his point. Wojo doesn't make the parts up to their potential.
Which is why he thinks Marquette will overachieve?
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Which is why he thinks Marquette will overachieve?
I suppose, but I think this is becoming a circular argument.
Some will see 6th place in the BE as overachieving a pat Wojo on the back.
Others will see 6th place a another disappointment and call for Wojo's head because they expect more from MU and it's investment.
Such is the nature of fan bases.
IMHO, if Wojo can get us to the NIT, he will have done well and is moving in the right direction as a coach. BUT that might not be good enough for MU to keep him.
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I suppose, but I think this is becoming a circular argument.
Some will see 6th place in the BE as overachieving a pat Wojo on the back.
Others will see 6th place a another disappointment and call for Wojo's head because they expect more from MU and it's investment.
Such is the nature of fan bases.
IMHO, if Wojo can get us to the NIT, he will have done well and is moving in the right direction as a coach. BUT that might not be good enough for MU to keep him.
There is zero chance that Wojo is gone after an NIT birth this year. Unless someone steps up and pays the entirety of the buyout, and even then I am not sure MU would go for that. The optics of paying that contract off when other employees have been furloughed or laid off would be something.
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There is zero chance that Wojo is gone after an NIT birth this year. Unless someone steps up and pays the entirety of the buyout, and even then I am not sure MU would go for that. The optics of paying that contract off when other employees have been furloughed or laid off would be something.
I would agree. Remind me, does he have three more years after 20-21?
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IMHO, if Wojo can get us to the NIT, he will have done well and is moving in the right direction as a coach.
How are we at this place in Year 7?
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The fickle fates of big time college basketball.
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That would be nice. The only season where he has really surprised was 2016-17, which ended in a first round loss, but you still felt the future was bright with Sam and Markus as freshmen.
But it ever really went anywhere after that.
Ultimately he is a decent (but not great) recruiter and a C-level bench coach. Good enough to get into the dance many years, but not really go anywhere.
So could he overachieve this year? Sure. But it would look at lot like 2016-17, which would be fine, but he would need to build from that.
2016-17 team was my favorite of the Wojo era. Had a deep roster of above average players who had good overall chemistry. A very entertaining group of guys. Also ,for that one year , Wojo had a good rotation formula that got everyone the minutes they deserved .
It was unfortunate that MU had to play a first round game against a South Carolina team that went on to the Final Four.
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I suppose, but I think this is becoming a circular argument.
Some will see 6th place in the BE as overachieving a pat Wojo on the back.
Others will see 6th place a another disappointment and call for Wojo's head because they expect more from MU and it's investment.
Such is the nature of fan bases.
IMHO, if Wojo can get us to the NIT, he will have done well and is moving in the right direction as a coach. BUT that might not be good enough for MU to keep him.
An nit birth should be the floor in a down year, not a freakin goal.
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An nit birth should be the floor in a down year, not a freakin goal.
Agree with this. The goal should be NCAA this year. That would be slightly overachieving in a down year. NIT would be meeting expectations.
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I’m telling myself we have a new coach who left a solid program where he made 3 NCAA’s but never got that team over the hump.
However he’s learned a lot from his last stop and is ready to put those lessons into action here at MU year 1.
Losing Markus, a historically ball dominant player, amounts to taking a new job. I’m more of a NoJo than a ProJo but I do feel like this is a reset and I’m cautiously optimistic.
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I’m telling myself we have a new coach who left a solid program where he made 3 NCAA’s but never got that team over the hump.
However he’s learned a lot from his last stop and is ready to put those lessons into action here at MU year 1.
Losing Markus, a historically ball dominant player, amounts to taking a new job. I’m more of a NoJo than a ProJo but I do feel like this is a reset and I’m cautiously optimistic.
I like your take. This is what I am hoping for as well. This is a fresh start with some pretty damn good players.