MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: The Big East on October 24, 2020, 08:21:49 AM
-
MU is picked 6th
https://247sports.com/college/marquette/board/104085/Contents/cbs-has-mu-finishing-6th-in-the-big-east-153466720/
-
Here's the actual link if you want to save a click:
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/big-east-expert-picks-2020-21-preview-villanova-will-face-challenge-from-creighton-for-conference-title/
-
3 freshmen, one RS freshman. Two sophomores. One junior. 3 seniors. Replacing Markus. With disjointed practice. Who will lead? Who will be the back up 5? A generic mid pack prediction is almost a gift.
-
3 freshmen, one RS freshman. Two sophomores. One junior. 3 seniors. Replacing Markus. With disjointed practice. Who will lead? Who will be the back up 5? A generic mid pack prediction is almost a gift.
But it’s only Wojo’s 7th year! Give him some time! Our “trajectory” is awesome!
-
I think this may be the season the Wojo haters finally get their wish.
-
I think this may be the season the Wojo haters finally get their wish.
And I think Projos like myself will finally begrudgingly agree that if we don’t make the tournament we are going in the wrong direction as a program.
-
I think this may be the season the Wojo haters finally get their wish.
I’ve celebrated Wojo’s successes (mostly recruiting - Henry, Markus, the Hausers, Dawson G, etc.) and criticized what I think are his failings (in game coaching, totally green lighting his stars, end of season collapses, etc.).
I’ve almost thrown in the towel on many occasions but I’ve clung to the hope that I might be wrong, that maybe he could get it done. I’m still clinging, but this year I need to see something.
-
I’ve celebrated Wojo’s successes (mostly recruiting - Henry, Markus, the Hausers, Dawson G, etc.) and criticized what I think are his failings (in game coaching, totally green lighting his stars, end of season collapses, etc.).
I’ve almost thrown in the towel on many occasions but I’ve clung to the hope that I might be wrong, that maybe he could get it done. I’m still clinging, but this year I need to see something.
I really don’t blame anyone that have thrown in the towel. I don’t.
I think apathy is far stronger than complaining, though. Apathy is far more dangerous to a program. If people want Wojo out, stop spending money by going to games. Stop participating in the program.
I struggle with that because it’s tough on the kids in the program.
People will always complain about their teams, even when/if they win. Christ, Packers and Badgers fans complain more when they lose a game than celebrate when the win. It’s when it’s silent that programs notice.
-
I’ll say it again. I think we are being underestimated. They think the loss of Markus Howard is bigger than it will be.
-
I hope you are correct. A whole lot of things have to fall in place.
-
MU is picked 6th
https://247sports.com/college/marquette/board/104085/Contents/cbs-has-mu-finishing-6th-in-the-big-east-153466720/
5th if Uconn is not included.
Ok, I'm reaching
-
Biggest thing will be consistency and chemistry. A lot of the returning pieces had good games/stretches last year, but pretty much no non-Markus player could put it together all season. We're also adding 5 new pieces to the rotation, the speed in which they gel will go a long way in determining the season. All, assuming that a full-ish season can be played.
-
I think this may be the season the Wojo haters finally get their wish.
Nah. This season is going to be so messed up and finances are going to be a major issue for the university that the administration won’t pull the trigger on a coaching change.
-
Biggest thing will be consistency and chemistry. A lot of the returning pieces had good games/stretches last year, but pretty much no non-Markus player could put it together all season. We're also adding 5 new pieces to the rotation, the speed in which they gel will go a long way in determining the season. All, assuming that a full-ish season can be played.
And add into that the 14-day quarantine that the team is in right now. Can’t be good for gelling.
Nah. This season is going to be so messed up and finances are going to be a major issue for the university that the administration won’t pull the trigger on a coaching change.
Very good point. I’m someone who needs Wojo to finally show something special, but I can see how the administration might again accept mediocrity.
-
Nah. This season is going to be so messed up and finances are going to be a major issue for the university that the administration won’t pull the trigger on a coaching change.
This. University budget is a mess. Nothing changing with Covid
-
Biggest thing will be consistency and chemistry. A lot of the returning pieces had good games/stretches last year, but pretty much no non-Markus player could put it together all season. We're also adding 5 new pieces to the rotation, the speed in which they gel will go a long way in determining the season. All, assuming that a full-ish season can be played.
Brother DJ, you hit the nail right on the head. I guess I’m hoping Coach Wojo can get this team hitting on all five. If he does, we’re going to be chasing Villanova. If he doesn’t, we’ll be chasing DePaul and he’ll be chasing a new job.
-
This. University budget is a mess. Nothing changing with Covid
All University budgets everywhere are a mess. Don't be surprised if this coming year sees less than normal coaching turnover.
-
All University budgets everywhere are a mess. Don't be surprised if this coming year sees less than normal coaching turnover.
Well I've been told the universities have million of dollars they are keeping from the athletes. What's the truth?
-
If we don't fire Wojo, we're probably going to have to extend him. He can't be on the recruiting trail with only a few years left on his deal.
-
This. University budget is a mess. Nothing changing with Covid
I'm not on board with Wojo at this point, but I’d toss Lovell before I smoke the coach. Lovell has been bad news on all fronts since coming on board. btw, I pray MU can avoid RED this season. I fear they’ll crush us. Heck, their roster is a bunch 30 yr olds😀
-
I'm not on board with Wojo at this point, but I’d toss Lovell before I smoke the coach. Lovell has been bad news on all fronts since coming on board. btw, I pray MU can avoid RED this season. I fear they’ll crush us. Heck, their roster is a bunch 30 yr olds😀
What?
-
I’ve celebrated Wojo’s successes (mostly recruiting - Henry, Markus, the Hausers, Dawson G, etc.) and criticized what I think are his failings (in game coaching, totally green lighting his stars, end of season collapses, etc.).
I’ve almost thrown in the towel on many occasions but I’ve clung to the hope that I might be wrong, that maybe he could get it done. I’m still clinging, but this year I need to see something.
I'm with you, Lenny.
I have never been on the 'fire Wojo' wagon, and I hope I never get there. But this season is critical. I'm not going to pin my opinion on any particular W-L outcome as much as (1) his in-game coaching and (2) our trajectory as the season progresses. I want to see definite improvement in one or (hopefully) both areas.
-
Like it or not, barring some kind of scandal or a truly horrific record (like 9-16 or something), I see little to no way Wojo gets fired after this season.
-
Like it or not, barring some kind of scandal or a truly horrific record (like 9-16 or something), I see little to no way Wojo gets fired after this season.
You are correct. But more people will be falling to the Nojo side of the fence. That won’t lead the university to fire Wojo. But it will lead to apathy and that is a bad thing.
-
Like it or not, barring some kind of scandal or a truly horrific record (like 9-16 or something), I see little to no way Wojo gets fired after this season.
Mike,
I’m not suggesting that another lackluster performance gets Wojo fired - I agree that for reasons beyond my comprehension he is very safe/secure at MU.
-
Mike,
I’m not suggesting that another lackluster performance gets Wojo fired - I agree that for reasons beyond my comprehension he is very safe/secure at MU.
I’m not sure what’s hard to comprehend about a $15M budget shortfall in an economy that pretty much every industry is struggling. There’s not a ton of money to burn on firing your highest earning employee and paying someone to replace him or her.
-
Mike,
I’m not suggesting that another lackluster performance gets Wojo fired - I agree that for reasons beyond my comprehension he is very safe/secure at MU.
It’s not that hard to comprehend. He recruits well. He wins...though not enough for most. He represents the University well.
-
Well I've been told the universities have million of dollars they are keeping from the athletes. What's the truth?
They do. Money made off of athletics is taken by universities and reinvested into other parts of the university. Now that less money is coming in across the board, universities will have to be more conservative with their budgets then they may have been in the past. No one is accusing them of pocketing millions for personal profit.
There is a level of performance this season that would result in Wojo getting fired, despite the pandemic. I don't know what that level is and its probably lower than most scoopers, but it does exist.
-
I do not think a poor performance this season will have any effect on Wojo. This season is a total crapshoot. Having to miss 14 days of practice because of Covid will effect how MU plays at start of the season. I am not expecting MU to have a good season. We will not make NCAA tournament, if we are swept by Oklahoma St, UCLA and Wisconsin.
-
And add into that the 14-day quarantine that the team is in right now. Can’t be good for gelling.
Very good point. I’m someone who needs Wojo to finally show something special, but I can see how the administration might again accept mediocrity.
Dont disagree that the current delay is hurting, but I think that the lack of a "hostile crowd" will help. If there are no crowds all year, I think the freshman will benefit from a lack of an "air ball" or free throw "distractions" during the regular season.
-
Well I've been told the universities have million of dollars they are keeping from the athletes. What's the truth?
You do remember that the Tourney was canceled in March? Conference tourneys too.
That is hundreds of millions in revenue gone that is hurting everyone's athletic budget.
-
You do remember that the Tourney was canceled in March? Conference tourneys too.
That is hundreds of millions in revenue gone that is hurting everyone's athletic budget.
I get it. My problem is the perception that all the D1 schools are swimming in money.
-
I get it. My problem is the perception that all the D1 schools are swimming in money.
Yes, the Tourney was the reason they were swimming in money.
-
I get it. My problem is the perception that all the D1 schools are swimming in money.
They are swimming in money. They make millions off of athletes, pay them in scholarships (and other ancillary benefits), and use the millions they make off of athletes to subsidize other parts of the university that don't make money (SOCIALISM!).
Those arguing that athletes should be paid aren't saying that universities have a Scrooge McDuck style swimming pool filled with money that they are hoarding for a profit. They are saying that the university should redirect some of the millions they make off of athletes away from building new buildings, propping up English departments, and paying coaches tens of millions (in some cases), to paying their quasi-employees.
I say this as someone who thinks the current compensation package that student-athletes receive is more than fair for 99% of student-athletes and doesn't think it should change. (NIL is another matter)
-
They are swimming in money. They make millions off of athletes, pay them in scholarships (and other ancillary benefits), and use the millions they make off of athletes to subsidize other parts of the university that don't make money (SOCIALISM!).
Those arguing that athletes should be paid aren't saying that universities have a Scrooge McDuck style swimming pool filled with money that they are hoarding for a profit. They are saying that the university should redirect some of the millions they make off of athletes away from building new buildings, propping up English departments, and paying coaches tens of millions (in some cases), to paying their quasi-employees.
I say this as someone who thinks the current compensation package that student-athletes receive is more than fair for 99% of student-athletes and doesn't think it should change. (NIL is another matter)
Fair enough. Not sure there are any coaches making $10MM but regardless, if the argument is moving funds away from or eliminating non-revenue sports (mostly women's sports) I can follow the logic. My issue has been the argument that there is so much money that the basketball and football players have no access to.
D1 schools are eliminating programs due to COVID and lack of funds. Maybe the schools should not be D1, but the rules have to be the same for all schools.
I hate that the media thinks that Kentucky and Alabama are the same as NJIT and SDSU.
I understand that UK basketball players and Alabama football players make millions for the schools but they have also chosen, voluntarily, to be in the NCAA with other colleges that don't have the resources they have. Most colleges loose money in sports.
I'm good with the P5 and Big East going it alone, but it will have consequences.
-
Yes, the Tourney was the reason they were swimming in money.
no, those "swimming in money" are due to football and TV revenue. NCAA tourney revenue goes to the conferences to distribute, in many cases equally amongst the membership. And, the fewer teams in and fewer games won equal less money distributed.
-
But it’s only Wojo’s 7th year! Give him some time! Our “trajectory” is awesome!
Betcha those malcontents, the Hauser outlaws finish higher than 6th in their conferences.
-
I’ve celebrated Wojo’s successes (mostly recruiting - Henry, Markus, the Hausers, Dawson G, etc.) and criticized what I think are his failings (in game coaching, totally green lighting his stars, end of season collapses, etc.).
I’ve almost thrown in the towel on many occasions but I’ve clung to the hope that I might be wrong, that maybe he could get it done. I’m still clinging, but this year I need to see something.
Lots of us have already seem enough.
-
Fair enough. Not sure there are any coaches making $10MM but regardless, if the argument is moving funds away from or eliminating non-revenue sports (mostly women's sports) I can follow the logic. My issue has been the argument that there is so much money that the basketball and football players have no access to.
Eliminating women's sports is not an option due to Title IX. I'm not sure how you got there from building new buildings and propping up english departments.
When I referred to coaches making tens of millions I was referring to entire contracts not single years.
There is so much money that basketball and football players have no access to. The universities spend it elsewhere. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but it is a fact.
I hate that the media thinks that Kentucky and Alabama are the same as NJIT and SDSU.
No one and especially the media, doesn't think this in the way you are implying. But they are the same in that all schools generate money from athletics and the athletes aren't allowed to access those funds despite being the ones who generated them. Some people don't think that is ethical and want to see more of that money redirected to compensating athletes. Personally, I think that would be a lose lose scenario and think the current system of providing scholarships and other ancillary benefits is much better for the both the university and the vast majority of student-athletes.
-
No one and especially the media, doesn't think this in the way you are implying.
Agree to disagree. I think the media is the biggest proponent of paying players because they think every school is Duke or Texas. I had to listen to ESPN analysts this week defend OBJ paying players on the field. I also heard the out cry of how unfair big time programs make money from the players. The media, IMHO, is more guilty of assuming the Alabama's and USC's of the world are the same as UAB and North Texas as opposed to educated fans.
As I said before, I'm okay with the P6 in basketball splitting off and paying players, but we will loose our games with the A10, MVC, WCC, etc.
-
"Paying players" is considerably different from letting athletes benefit financially from their own names, images and likenesses. Most in the media (that I have seen) are for the latter. I don't see many talking about the former.
Personally, capitalist that I am, I'm for whatever the market will bear, supply-and-demand, and all that other good non-socialist stuff. But NIL would at least be a good, fair start.
Many P6 coaches make more than $10 million. TAMU didn't say per annum. Even Wojo's contract was worth more than $10M total. And quite a few have multi-year contracts worth multiple tens of millions of dollars.
Marquette has been tearing down buildings, putting up new buildings, buying up properties and land around campus, etc. Millions upon millions upon millions of dollars being spent. Of course, those were planned during financial good times, as if tough times couldn't possibly ever arrive.
I am not saying MU shouldn't have done most or all of that, because I am not close enough to the situation to know. But it is a fact that MU has been spending money like a drunk congressperson these last many years, as have many colleges and universities.
-
The media ruins everything. Get rid of the media and every problem in the world would be solved. No covid, no global warming, no poverty, no violence, we'd have world peace, college student athletes would finally see the value they get in the exposure, networking, and education they get, etc.
-
This board can get very strange. NIL = paying player? Sports media = COVID reality?
As I've said before, the BE and other P5 schools can afford player compensation but the vast majority of D1 schools cannot.
The rules have to be even and consistent.
Moving funds from academic buildings, coaches salaries and non-revenue sports might be the answer, but the money has to come from somewhere.
-
This board can get very strange.
I hope this isn't your first inkling....
-
What?
figure it out, it’s not difficult
-
I hope this isn't your first inkling....
LOL! Good point.
-
Woj has ok Halloween decorations outside his crib. Not great, just ok, hey?
-
Woj has ok Halloween decorations outside his crib. Not great, just ok, hey?
Hopefully, he has some good quality treats like Snickers and Reese Cups
-
Woj has ok Halloween decorations outside his crib. Not great, just ok, hey?
Ok? Do dentists have an inferiority complex? Hey?
-
Ok? Do dentists have an inferiority complex? Hey?
No, he is just constipated.
-
Are there any college basketball magazines this year? I have not seen one. I have them going back to the 1970 season.
-
Are there any college basketball magazines this year? I have not seen one. I have them going back to the 1970 season.
I got Lindys on Amazon. Blue Ribbon is out, though have not received it yet. Have not seen anything for Street & Smith.
-
"Paying players" is considerably different from letting athletes benefit financially from their own names, images and likenesses. Most in the media (that I have seen) are for the latter. I don't see many talking about the former.
Personally, capitalist that I am, I'm for whatever the market will bear, supply-and-demand, and all that other good non-socialist stuff. But NIL would at least be a good, fair start.
Many P6 coaches make more than $10 million. TAMU didn't say per annum. Even Wojo's contract was worth more than $10M total. And quite a few have multi-year contracts worth multiple tens of millions of dollars.
Marquette has been tearing down buildings, putting up new buildings, buying up properties and land around campus, etc. Millions upon millions upon millions of dollars being spent. Of course, those were planned during financial good times, as if tough times couldn't possibly ever arrive.
I am not saying MU shouldn't have done most or all of that, because I am not close enough to the situation to know. But it is a fact that MU has been spending money like a drunk congressperson these last many years, as have many colleges and universities.
though keep in mind a small percentage of that $10 million plus is actually paid from university funds. Most is paid from outside sources such as donors, Nike/Adidas/UA, media deals, camps, etc.
-
What did I miss? Are we firing up the ole "Fire Wojo" bandwagon again or are we all giving an apathetic pass to this entire season because of ~~reasons~~?
-
What did I miss? Are we firing up the ole "Fire Wojo" bandwagon again or are we all giving an apathetic pass to this entire season because of ~~reasons~~?
You're your own person. You can form whatever opinion you'd like.
-
You're your own person. You can form whatever opinion you'd like.
I prefer that we form a Scoop hivemind.
-
Good luck.
-
Are there any college basketball magazines this year? I have not seen one. I have them going back to the 1970 season.
I remember when I used to look forward to their release - I’d buy ‘em all and read them cover to cover.
-
I remember when I used to look forward to their release - I’d buy ‘em all and read them cover to cover.
I do not read them like I use to. I pretty much look at MU's opponents. I also want to keep my collection going.
-
Are there any college basketball magazines this year? I have not seen one. I have them going back to the 1970 season.
What do the magazines say? We gonna be any good in '70-'71???
-
Are there any college basketball magazines this year? I have not seen one. I have them going back to the 1970 season.
Here is link to Lindy's , they have an MU/UW cover edition. Athlon not yet out.
https://store.lindyssports.com/products/2020-21-college-basketball?variant=31538814156878
-
What do the magazines say? We gonna be any good in '70-'71???
Yes, unless Jim Chones turns pro.
-
I prefer that we form a Scoop hivemind.
We can't even agree on teal. Maybe I'll start using it exclusively.
-
What do the magazines say? We gonna be any good in '70-'71???
Not if you believe Al.
Street and Smiths
"Celebrations for NIT championship done, Al McGuire sounded subdued, which is very unlike Al McGuire. "I've never lost four of my first six players before," he sighed. "We won't get out of the gate fast." He was heard predicting a .500 year after four winters of 21-9, 23-6, 24-5, 26-3 and a place each time in the tournaments.
Al's two leftovers are 6-1 Dean (The Dream) Meminger and 6-6 Gary Brell. The task of Brell (12.2 average) is harrassment and leaping for stray basketballs. Meminger's job is more varied.
Meminger made All-America with 19 point scoring. "The Dream is the most unselfish player I've ever coached," says McGuire. "If we ran, he score 30, but he plays our offense and controls it and plays defense, and that's what we want." The senior from New York is also Marquette's captain, appointed by the coach "because he's an excellent leader, and being my leader is too important to leave to locker room politics."
Acknowledge as another starter is 6-11 Jim Chones, the big center recent Warrior teams haven't had, a sophomore who merely "has more ability than anyone I've ever been associated with," his coach says. 6-5 Hugh McMahon and 6-0 Gary Grzesk are lettermen offered first shot at the other two positions. Grzesk must overcome knee surgery, and both must overcome some sophomores -- 6-3 George Frazier, 6-4 Kurt Spychalla, 6-3 Allie McGuire. Young Allie has had a lifetime adjusting to the benevolent dictatorship of his coach, being his son.
And there is also one Bob Lackey. He measures 6-6 and 211, was junior college All-American with 23 point, 18 rebound statistics, and he can play on anybody's team. After he landed Lackey and looked again at his sophomores, McGuire sounded like himself again: "if we don't get out of the gate too slow, we can get into a tournament.""
-
That team ended up OK.
(I still can't figure out how to paste a photo in here)
-
Not if you believe Al.
Street and Smiths
"Celebrations for NIT championship done, Al McGuire sounded subdued, which is very unlike Al McGuire. "I've never lost four of my first six players before," he sighed. "We won't get out of the gate fast." He was heard predicting a .500 year after four winters of 21-9, 23-6, 24-5, 26-3 and a place each time in the tournaments.
Al's two leftovers are 6-1 Dean (The Dream) Meminger and 6-6 Gary Brell. The task of Brell (12.2 average) is harrassment and leaping for stray basketballs. Meminger's job is more varied.
Meminger made All-America with 19 point scoring. "The Dream is the most unselfish player I've ever coached," says McGuire. "If we ran, he score 30, but he plays our offense and controls it and plays defense, and that's what we want." The senior from New York is also Marquette's captain, appointed by the coach "because he's an excellent leader, and being my leader is too important to leave to locker room politics."
Acknowledge as another starter is 6-11 Jim Chones, the big center recent Warrior teams haven't had, a sophomore who merely "has more ability than anyone I've ever been associated with," his coach says. 6-5 Hugh McMahon and 6-0 Gary Grzesk are lettermen offered first shot at the other two positions. Grzesk must overcome knee surgery, and both must overcome some sophomores -- 6-3 George Frazier, 6-4 Kurt Spychalla, 6-3 Allie McGuire. Young Allie has had a lifetime adjusting to the benevolent dictatorship of his coach, being his son.
And there is also one Bob Lackey. He measures 6-6 and 211, was junior college All-American with 23 point, 18 rebound statistics, and he can play on anybody's team. After he landed Lackey and looked again at his sophomores, McGuire sounded like himself again: "if we don't get out of the gate too slow, we can get into a tournament.""
If you look up the definition of intimidation in the dictionary there should be a picture of The Black Swan. What a player he was
-
There wasn't really another thread to put this so it seemed like as good of one as any:
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/2020-21-cbs-sports-college-basketball-preseason-awards-our-player-coach-and-freshman-of-the-year/?ftag=SPM-16-10abi8e
Wojo not listed as one of the 5 on the hot seat or 6 (dis)honorable mentions. There are three or four listed that have been suggested as possible Wojo replacements....so they may be on the market soon?
Please don't mistake this as a Projo "see, Wojo is awesome" post. Wojo isn't appearing on any preseason coach of the year lists either. Just a reminder that while many here are near or past the point of wanting Wojo fired, the national perception is that he has done enough to stay away from the hot seat.
-
https://twitter.com/JoeJulesinq/status/1327006017582936067
I'd still list them as the favorites, but if Antoine is out for an extended period of time, Nova won't be as deep.
-
https://twitter.com/JoeJulesinq/status/1327006017582936067
I'd still list them as the favorites, but if Antoine is out for an extended period of time, Nova won't be as deep.
kid cant catch a damn break
-
kid cant catch a damn break
Agree that stinks for the Kid. Nova was 5-13 the last year of the Old BE. Will Nova ever be 5-13 in the New BE. In the New BE Nova Wins 2 Titles and Jay Wright Wins Coach of the Decade. Again it stinks for the kid but Nova though not as deep will keep Winning.