MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Plaque Lives Matter! on October 19, 2020, 05:50:05 PM
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Sorry if this is a repeat thread, but quite the article chronicling the Foxconn project up to date.
https://www.theverge.com/21507966/foxconn-empty-factories-wisconsin-jobs-loophole-trump
Feel pretty awful for those who were pushed to move from their homes for big empty unused buildings. Hopefully they find a purpose for them.
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Not just the homeowners, but the WI taxpayers, who were fleeced out of over $4 Billion for unenforceable promises and a couple of photo ops....
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Fleece City.
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Not just the homeowners, but the WI taxpayers, who were fleeced out of over $4 Billion for unenforceable promises and a couple of photo ops....
Very little of the $4b will ever be paid as Foxconn is not meeting the requirements.
It's a fleecing all right .. just not in the billions.
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Obviously some of the infrastructure upgrades were a necessity. But most were not. And of course a bunch of people were displaced from their homes when they didn't need to be.
This was a bad deal from the beginning.
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Fox con.
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Fox con.
Shoulda been a clue, eh?
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLf6HzcWkAESPgq?format=jpg&name=small)
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DLf6HzcWkAESPgq?format=jpg&name=small)
When everyone was tripping over themselves to be involved.
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When everyone was tripping over themselves to be involved.
I mean, I heard not so limited or quiet clamoring for them to be the name sponsor of the new arena.
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When everyone was tripping over themselves to be involved.
I wonder where the replica jersey is.
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https://media3.giphy.com/media/xT5LMNpp6WzmAGZXk4/source.gif
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Stunned this didn't turn out as advertised. Thanks, Obama.
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Stunned this didn't turn out as advertised. Thanks, Obama.
It is Obama and Evers fault... unless it went well then its Walker and Trumps achievement
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When everyone was tripping over themselves to be involved.
Can’t believe we got involved with those Marxists.
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This stuff is pretty amazing:
..the contract former Gov. Scott Walker created with Foxconn included a huge loophole. The company could hire hundreds of employees on a short-term basis, get the state tax credits for capital expenditures and then lay off the workers.
.. that’s exactly what Foxconn did, hiring hundreds toward the end of 2019, claiming them on its report to the state for the 2019 year, and then quickly laying the employees off early in 2020.
... none of the employees were hired to work on any actual project, because Foxconn has yet to figure out what it can manufacture successfully in Wisconsin. The company has considered the following businesses: fish farms, exporting ice cream, storing boats, cosmetics, designer handbags, gaming teams, dairy exports, and a project involving “camera-festooned autonomous vehicles.”
What a complete cluserf.
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This stuff is pretty amazing:
..the contract former Gov. Scott Walker created with Foxconn included a huge loophole. The company could hire hundreds of employees on a short-term basis, get the state tax credits for capital expenditures and then lay off the workers.
.. that’s exactly what Foxconn did, hiring hundreds toward the end of 2019, claiming them on its report to the state for the 2019 year, and then quickly laying the employees off early in 2020.
... none of the employees were hired to work on any actual project, because Foxconn has yet to figure out what it can manufacture successfully in Wisconsin. The company has considered the following businesses: fish farms, exporting ice cream, storing boats, cosmetics, designer handbags, gaming teams, dairy exports, and a project involving “camera-festooned autonomous vehicles.”
What a complete cluserf.
you do know The Onion is sarcasm, right? No way that's real.
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Wait--what?? How can camera-festooned autonomous vehicles be classified as a clusterfk?
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Seems like there'd be lots of prestigious, high-paying jobs in boat storage and fish farming....
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Seems like there'd be lots of prestigious, high-paying jobs in boat storage and fish farming....
Now we know what Walker is doing after being run: exporting ice cream!
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you do know The Onion is sarcasm, right? No way that's real.
https://www.theverge.com/21507966/foxconn-empty-factories-wisconsin-jobs-loophole-trump
Not sarcasm.
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https://www.theverge.com/21507966/foxconn-empty-factories-wisconsin-jobs-loophole-trump
Not sarcasm.
I know. Mine was. :)
I need to remember to use teal.
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This stuff is pretty amazing:
..the contract former Gov. Scott Walker created with Foxconn included a huge loophole. The company could hire hundreds of employees on a short-term basis, get the state tax credits for capital expenditures and then lay off the workers.
.. that’s exactly what Foxconn did, hiring hundreds toward the end of 2019, claiming them on its report to the state for the 2019 year, and then quickly laying the employees off early in 2020.
... none of the employees were hired to work on any actual project, because Foxconn has yet to figure out what it can manufacture successfully in Wisconsin. The company has considered the following businesses: fish farms, exporting ice cream, storing boats, cosmetics, designer handbags, gaming teams, dairy exports, and a project involving “camera-festooned autonomous vehicles.”
What a complete cluserf.
Can't spell Foxconn without the C-O-N.
https://www.jsonline.com/restricted/?return=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.jsonline.com%2Fstory%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Fmilwaukee%2F2020%2F10%2F19%2Ffoxconn-construction-continues-but-company-silent-hiring%2F3579888001%2F
You know, if only we had a "businessman president," this probably would have never happened!
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https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-foxconn-facility/
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https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-foxconn-facility/
"You know, I just realized the other day, they told me — when we won the state of Wisconsin, it hadn’t been won by a Republican since Dwight D. Eisenhower in 1952. Did you know that? And I won Wisconsin. And I like Wisconsin a lot, but we won Wisconsin. (Applause.) And Ronald Reagan — remember, Wisconsin was the state that Ronald Reagan did not win. And that was in 1952. ... So I had this incredible company going to invest someplace in the world — not here necessarily. And I will tell you they wouldn’t have done it here, except that I became President, so that’s good. But they wanted to do it someplace now in the United States. And I immediately thought of the state of Wisconsin.”
Those were lovely sentiments. Except for the made-up crud ... and it being a scam the entire time that was lovely.
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Reagan didn't win Mondale's home state of Minnesota.
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Can't spell Foxconn without the C-O-N.
https://www.jsonline.com/restricted/?return=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.jsonline.com%2Fstory%2Fnews%2Flocal%2Fmilwaukee%2F2020%2F10%2F19%2Ffoxconn-construction-continues-but-company-silent-hiring%2F3579888001%2F
You know, if only we had a "businessman president," this probably would have never happened!
Or a governor who was a Marquette graduate instead of a Marquette dropout.
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sometimes ya just need to do a little digging. after going thru over 2 pages of google's negative stories, i found one positive one on PAGE 3. it actually asks the village of mount pleasant and the people who have skin in the game. as you all know, covid threw a wrench into a lot of businesses. foxconn pivoted and with some of the facilities they had, started helping to produce ventilators and masks. sounds like they are meeting their financial obligations with mount pleasant too. sorry to pee on the celebration and mock-fest, but any amateur "journalist" would wonder about "the rest of the story"
https://journaltimes.com/news/local/mount-pleasant-officials-pleased-with-foxconn-progress/article_1567af09-db6d-5115-8fab-6a1a36daff68.html
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sometimes ya just need to do a little digging. after going thru over 2 pages of google's negative stories, i found one positive one on PAGE 3. it actually asks the village of mount pleasant and the people who have skin in the game. as you all know, covid threw a wrench into a lot of businesses. foxconn pivoted and with some of the facilities they had, started helping to produce ventilators and masks. sounds like they are meeting their financial obligations with mount pleasant too. sorry to pee on the celebration and mock-fest, but any amateur "journalist" would wonder about "the rest of the story"
https://journaltimes.com/news/local/mount-pleasant-officials-pleased-with-foxconn-progress/article_1567af09-db6d-5115-8fab-6a1a36daff68.html
Yes, skin in the game indeed.
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Or a governor who was a Marquette graduate instead of a Marquette dropout.
All things considered, I’m glad Walker is a MU dropout and not a fellow alumnus.
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sometimes ya just need to do a little digging. after going thru over 2 pages of google's negative stories, i found one positive one on PAGE 3. it actually asks the village of mount pleasant and the people who have skin in the game. as you all know, covid threw a wrench into a lot of businesses. foxconn pivoted and with some of the facilities they had, started helping to produce ventilators and masks. sounds like they are meeting their financial obligations with mount pleasant too. sorry to pee on the celebration and mock-fest, but any amateur "journalist" would wonder about "the rest of the story"
https://journaltimes.com/news/local/mount-pleasant-officials-pleased-with-foxconn-progress/article_1567af09-db6d-5115-8fab-6a1a36daff68.html
you're fun!
is there any lie, scam, corruption or boondoggle your emperor and his minions can try that you won't fall for?
mexico's comin' thru with $$$ for that wall any second now!
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sometimes ya just need to do a little digging. after going thru over 2 pages of google's negative stories, i found one positive one on PAGE 3. it actually asks the village of mount pleasant and the people who have skin in the game. as you all know, covid threw a wrench into a lot of businesses. foxconn pivoted and with some of the facilities they had, started helping to produce ventilators and masks. sounds like they are meeting their financial obligations with mount pleasant too. sorry to pee on the celebration and mock-fest, but any amateur "journalist" would wonder about "the rest of the story"
https://journaltimes.com/news/local/mount-pleasant-officials-pleased-with-foxconn-progress/article_1567af09-db6d-5115-8fab-6a1a36daff68.html
It's okay to admit maybe the people you believed in made a mistake. Really, trust me. It's liberating even.
I wanted the Foxconn deal to pan out. Doesn't look like it's delivering though. It's a bummer, but we're gonna be okay.
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sometimes ya just need to do a little digging. after going thru over 2 pages of google's negative stories, i found one positive one on PAGE 3. it actually asks the village of mount pleasant and the people who have skin in the game. as you all know, covid threw a wrench into a lot of businesses. foxconn pivoted and with some of the facilities they had, started helping to produce ventilators and masks. sounds like they are meeting their financial obligations with mount pleasant too. sorry to pee on the celebration and mock-fest, but any amateur "journalist" would wonder about "the rest of the story"
https://journaltimes.com/news/local/mount-pleasant-officials-pleased-with-foxconn-progress/article_1567af09-db6d-5115-8fab-6a1a36daff68.html
A live look in on Republicans still defending anything related to Foxconn:
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/3oz8xVyxeOgWj5rcSA/giphy.gif)
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sometimes ya just need to do a little digging. after going thru over 2 pages of google's negative stories, i found one positive one on PAGE 3. it actually asks the village of mount pleasant and the people who have skin in the game. as you all know, covid threw a wrench into a lot of businesses. foxconn pivoted and with some of the facilities they had, started helping to produce ventilators and masks. sounds like they are meeting their financial obligations with mount pleasant too. sorry to pee on the celebration and mock-fest, but any amateur "journalist" would wonder about "the rest of the story"
https://journaltimes.com/news/local/mount-pleasant-officials-pleased-with-foxconn-progress/article_1567af09-db6d-5115-8fab-6a1a36daff68.html
This is called covering their ass. For instance, look at this quote:
"I think you’ve got to really put it in perspective,” Lois said, calling it “very disappointing” that discussions around the Foxconn development project have “gotten political” in tone, particularly on the state level. “The jobs were 13,000 by 2032. Who thought you were going to hire 13,000 people in a year, seriously?"
Lois, no one thought that - and you know that - so stop building your strawman. There never was a goal to hire 13,000 people in a year. You fail to mention that they are supposed to be around 2,000 by the end of this year, and will be nowhere near that.
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Reagan didn't win Mondale's home state of Minnesota.
It's funny, that post prompted me to look at electoral college votes for Regan's elections. The first election I was old enough to vote in was 1980. I remember the landslide in 1984, but I was stunned at how big the victory was in 1980 for Reagan. It feels like we'll never have such a one-sided election again.
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discussions around the Foxconn development project have “gotten political” in tone
Hmmm ... I wonder which politicians had shovels and talked about how great they were for scamming Wisconsinites into this boondoggle.
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Liars
https://twitter.com/reckless/status/1319079484637720577?s=20
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It's funny, that post prompted me to look at electoral college votes for Regan's elections. The first election I was old enough to vote in was 1980. I remember the landslide in 1984, but I was stunned at how big the victory was in 1980 for Reagan. It feels like we'll never have such a one-sided election again.
I doubt we'll see such a one-sided election any time soon, but I do think that there were two things at play there that could come together again. One was undoubtedly Reagan's strength as a candidate, but the other is that he caught a shifting electorate at a good time. When you pull up the electoral maps from 1968 - 1976, the outcomes in certain states seem unfathomable today - in 1968 and 1976 ('72 was a Nixon walkover) CA went Republican and Texas Democratic, along with other southern states where Dems used to have strongholds. After Reagan, the Dems would never lose CA again, but also never show well in the south again (I guess you could argue Clinton did okay in the south in 1992). So there is a chicken and egg discussion to be had there, but I think these strong candidates combined with shifting electoral maps come and go periodically.
As an aside, I think its pretty apolitical to say we live in a political hellscape right now, but anyone who tells you "its never been this bad" has a short memory. In 1968, a third-party ticket of George Wallace and Bombs Away LeMay carried 5 states and 13.5% of the vote. I know the parties are far apart right now, but holy mother of god that presidential ticket makes the opposite of whatever side anyone is on today look quaint in comparison.
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I doubt we'll see such a one-sided election any time soon, but I do think that there were two things at play there that could come together again. One was undoubtedly Reagan's strength as a candidate, but the other is that he caught a shifting electorate at a good time. When you pull up the electoral maps from 1968 - 1976, the outcomes in certain states seem unfathomable today - in 1968 and 1976 ('72 was a Nixon walkover) CA went Republican and Texas Democratic, along with other southern states where Dems used to have strongholds. After Reagan, the Dems would never lose CA again, but also never show well in the south again (I guess you could argue Clinton did okay in the south in 1992). So there is a chicken and egg discussion to be had there, but I think these strong candidates combined with shifting electoral maps come and go periodically.
As an aside, I think its pretty apolitical to say we live in a political hellscape right now, but anyone who tells you "its never been this bad" has a short memory. In 1968, a third-party ticket of George Wallace and Bombs Away LeMay carried 5 states and 13.5% of the vote. I know the parties are far apart right now, but holy mother of god that presidential ticket makes the opposite of whatever side anyone is on today look quaint in comparison.
I’ve pondered the possibility of a Trump backed candidate running in 2024 should he lose in two weeks, splitting the Republican vote. A lot can happen between now and then and will, but I don’t think it’s far-fetched
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I’ve pondered the possibility of a Trump backed candidate running in 2024 should he lose in two weeks, splitting the Republican vote. A lot can happen between now and then and will, but I don’t think it’s far-fetched
I think the trend is now to see those battles fought in the primaries. There is too much money supporting the entrenched system to see a viable third party candidate.
This is also the reason I think you won't see "landslide elections" again. Most of the red states are deeply red. Many of the blue states are deeply blue. The campaigns fight over the ten or so states where they have a chance. Not many moderates anywhere.
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I think the trend is now to see those battles fought in the primaries. There is too much money supporting the entrenched system to see a viable third party candidate.
This is also the reason I think you won't see "landslide elections" again. Most of the red states are deeply red. Many of the blue states are deeply blue. The campaigns fight over the ten or so states where they have a chance. Not many moderates anywhere.
There are plenty of moderates but they're drowned out by the extremes and the media focuses on them. One would think based on Fox News coverage that AOC and Ihlan Omar are the most popular politicians in the country and represent the Democratic Party when in reality she wouldn't even make it through the primary in 90% of districts in the country. Sharice Davids in Kansas and Katie Porter of CA are moderates and candidates who could be elected nationwide but the media doesn't talk about them. Hell, I voted for a GOP state rep candidate who is staunchly anti-Trump, admits climate change is real, is pro-choice and pro COVID restrictions. In most other districts he's a center-left Democrat, in mine he's considered far right. Perspective.
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There are plenty of moderates but they're drowned out by the extremes and the media focuses on them. One would think based on Fox News coverage that AOC and Ihlan Omar are the most popular politicians in the country and represent the Democratic Party when in reality she wouldn't even make it through the primary in 90% of districts in the country. Sharice Davids in Kansas and Katie Porter of CA are moderates and candidates who could be elected nationwide but the media doesn't talk about them. Hell, I voted for a GOP state rep candidate who is staunchly anti-Trump, admits climate change is real, is pro-choice and pro COVID restrictions. In most other districts he's a center-left Democrat, in mine he's considered far right. Perspective.
I think if you remove the names Ilhan Omar, and Alexandria Ocacio-Cortez and display only their views they'd win a lot of primaries. A lot of people have been led to believe that these women are scary commies. They aren't.
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There are plenty of moderates but they're drowned out by the extremes and the media focuses on them. One would think based on Fox News coverage that AOC and Ihlan Omar are the most popular politicians in the country and represent the Democratic Party when in reality she wouldn't even make it through the primary in 90% of districts in the country. Sharice Davids in Kansas and Katie Porter of CA are moderates and candidates who could be elected nationwide but the media doesn't talk about them. Hell, I voted for a GOP state rep candidate who is staunchly anti-Trump, admits climate change is real, is pro-choice and pro COVID restrictions. In most other districts he's a center-left Democrat, in mine he's considered far right. Perspective.
The media ... the media ... the media ...
I think the trend is now to see those battles fought in the primaries. There is too much money supporting the entrenched system to see a viable third party candidate.
This is also the reason I think you won't see "landslide elections" again. Most of the red states are deeply red. Many of the blue states are deeply blue. The campaigns fight over the ten or so states where they have a chance. Not many moderates anywhere.
Agree.
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sometimes ya just need to do a little digging. after going thru over 2 pages of google's negative stories, i found one positive one on PAGE 3. it actually asks the village of mount pleasant and the people who have skin in the game. as you all know, covid threw a wrench into a lot of businesses. foxconn pivoted and with some of the facilities they had, started helping to produce ventilators and masks. sounds like they are meeting their financial obligations with mount pleasant too. sorry to pee on the celebration and mock-fest, but any amateur "journalist" would wonder about "the rest of the story"
https://journaltimes.com/news/local/mount-pleasant-officials-pleased-with-foxconn-progress/article_1567af09-db6d-5115-8fab-6a1a36daff68.html
Thanks for posting this article. It is well written and has a lot of good detail. Progress is being made.
The pace of progress is contemporaneous with market conditions. That is how the business world works.
I found one paragraph in the article particularly positive. Mt. Pleasant is very pleased for a reason.
In regards to Foxconn’s contract with the village, by 2023 Foxconn facilities are required to have an assessed value of $1.4 billion according to Lois. If valuation falls short, Foxconn is contractually required to financially make up shortfall in property tax revenues to the village.
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The media ... the media ... the media ...
It is the media because they need to appeal to the fringes. Fox News on the right and MSNBC on the left, and let's not forget about talk radio. Talk radio is probably the biggest culprit of the partisan divide in this country. It's all about ratings and ad revenue and the fact is today, people tune in to hear what they want to hear and nod their head along to everything they hear. That's why most people cannot identify individuals like Davids, Porter, Mikie Sherrill, Elissa Slotkin, etc. Instead, it's "The Squad."
I think if you remove the names Ilhan Omar, and Alexandria Ocacio-Cortez and display only their views they'd win a lot of primaries. A lot of people have been led to believe that these women are scary commies. They aren't.
both are hard left, but they represent hard left districts. Not communists, it's been fun to see the right dig that out of the 80's graveyard. However, they're great self-promoters. There's a reason why AOC is known as "Always On Camera." Don't forget this little nugget: "In any other country, Joe Biden and I would not be in the same party," in an interview with New York magazine."
And meanwhile, Joe Biden is going to be our next President and AOC and Omar have given conditional support, not a full-on endorsement (with Omar basically saying "I support him, but let's hear from Tara Reade first").
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Has anyone tracked down the TV they donated to Marquette during the bootlicking tour that happened during Marquette Madness?
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Thanks for posting this article. It is well written and has a lot of good detail. Progress is being made.
The pace of progress is contemporaneous with market conditions. That is how the business world works.
But that's not what's happening. They are continuously using Covid as a reason for the lack of manufacturing at the site, but this situation existed prior to Covid even being a thing.
It's like people have lost all context of history or something.
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I'm going to take a very different position than is espoused on this Board.
It was a calculated gamble worth taking in a very volatile time.
Look, manufacturing has been fleeing Wisconsin -- and most of the Midwest -- for much of the past 50 years. The carnage comes in the form of unemployment, social and political unrest and simply broken people without hope. One one level, it's sad. On another, it's a state and national tragedy. Southeast Wisconsin in particular, with the loss of AMC, Allis-Chalmers, Briggs & Stratton and a host of other large firms, has really paid the price for an overly free market attitude toward imports.
We see states like Tennessee, who made a bet on Nissan in the 1980s. The bet came amid enormous criticism by lots of people that the Alexander Administration was "giving away the store." Yet, Tennessee become an industrial powerhouse. Nissan has multiple plants in Tennessee, as does VW and a host of supplier companies. Drive down Interstate 24 from Nashville to Murfreesboro and you'll see growth and development that most of us who grew up there would have never dreamed of.
After seeing backwater states like Tennessee and South Carolina become industrial powerhouses, the Midwest has to do something. Foxconn may have been betting on the wrong partner but at least the state ponied up to the table. Admittedly, the educational institutions, access to transportation networks, raw materials and skilled labor force should make the Chicago/Milwaukee region as well as much of the Midwest the economic engine of the region and the nation. Sadly, it's not and we need to change the defeatist attitude about the Midwest and go after opportunity.
It's really easy to be a Monday morning quarterback. It's a lot tougher not to act amid the problems of the post-industrial age.
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It is the media because they need to appeal to the fringes. Fox News on the right and MSNBC on the left, and let's not forget about talk radio. Talk radio is probably the biggest culprit of the partisan divide in this country. It's all about ratings and ad revenue and the fact is today, people tune in to hear what they want to hear and nod their head along to everything they hear. That's why most people cannot identify individuals like Davids, Porter, Mikie Sherrill, Elissa Slotkin, etc. Instead, it's "The Squad."
both are hard left, but they represent hard left districts. Not communists, it's been fun to see the right dig that out of the 80's graveyard. However, they're great self-promoters. There's a reason why AOC is known as "Always On Camera." Don't forget this little nugget: "In any other country, Joe Biden and I would not be in the same party," in an interview with New York magazine."
Enemy of the people!
Especially, it turns out, Leslie Stahl.
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I’ve pondered the possibility of a Trump backed candidate running in 2024 should he lose in two weeks, splitting the Republican vote. A lot can happen between now and then and will, but I don’t think it’s far-fetched
It won't be a Trump backed candidate, it will be Trump himself. The GOP will still be the party of Trump, unless Ben Sasse or Mitt Romney run against him, Trump will run unopposed in 2024 should he lose in a couple weeks.
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I'm going to take a very different position than is espoused on this Board.
It was a calculated gamble worth taking in a very volatile time.
Look, manufacturing has been fleeing Wisconsin -- and most of the Midwest -- for much of the past 50 years. The carnage comes in the form of unemployment, social and political unrest and simply broken people without hope. One one level, it's sad. On another, it's a state and national tragedy. Southeast Wisconsin in particular, with the loss of AMC, Allis-Chalmers, Briggs & Stratton and a host of other large firms, has really paid the price for an overly free market attitude toward imports.
We see states like Tennessee, who made a bet on Nissan in the 1980s. The bet came amid enormous criticism by lots of people that the Alexander Administration was "giving away the store." Yet, Tennessee become an industrial powerhouse. Nissan has multiple plants in Tennessee, as does VW and a host of supplier companies. Drive down Interstate 24 from Nashville to Murfreesboro and you'll see growth and development that most of us who grew up there would have never dreamed of.
After seeing backwater states like Tennessee and South Carolina become industrial powerhouses, the Midwest has to do something. Foxconn may have been betting on the wrong partner but at least the state ponied up to the table. Admittedly, the educational institutions, access to transportation networks, raw materials and skilled labor force should make the Chicago/Milwaukee region as well as much of the Midwest the economic engine of the region and the nation. Sadly, it's not and we need to change the defeatist attitude about the Midwest and go after opportunity.
It's really easy to be a Monday morning quarterback. It's a lot tougher not to act amid the problems of the post-industrial age.
But this is a dated view of Wisconsin really. AMC and Allis-Chalmers left 30 years ago. Briggs has been downsizing for years. In fact, the stories pre-Covid were more about not finding enough skilled labor to fill the needs of the area. The persistence of poverty, and low skilled labor, isn't going to be helped by putting a LCD factory in Mount Pleasant.
That being said, there is obviously room for subsidies no doubt. But subsidies of that size aren't going to pay off. That was the biggest issue - the size of the subsidy, not the subsidy itself.
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It won't be a Trump backed candidate, it will be Trump himself.
Sorry but if Trump loses in a couple of weeks, between now and 2024 you are going to see a lot of revisionist history by his former supporters about how much they were behind him.
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Sorry but if Trump loses in a couple of weeks, between now and 2024 you are going to see a lot of revisionist history by his former supporters about how much they were behind him.
Never forget
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Sorry but if Trump loses in a couple of weeks, between now and 2024 you are going to see a lot of revisionist history by his former supporters about how much they were behind him.
I don't see that happening. You know Trump will never admit defeat, if he loses, he will claim he was robbed. There is no way he steps aside for someone else, because his ego will not allow someone else to claim the spotlight.. The base is solidly behind him and I don't see that changing in the next 2-3 years.
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I don't see that happening. You know Trump will never admit defeat, if he loses, he will claim he was robbed. There is no way he steps aside for someone else, because his ego will not allow someone else to claim the spotlight.. The base is solidly behind him and I don't see that changing in the next 2-3 years.
Honestly, I'm not sure he could afford another run even if he wants to. Many of his big donors have abandoned him and he's staring down a $400 million debt.
As you can see from his latest filing, he's flailing when it comes to financing his campaign this year.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/20/us/politics/trump-money-biden.html
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It is the media because they need to appeal to the fringes. Fox News on the right and MSNBC on the left, and let's not forget about talk radio. Talk radio is probably the biggest culprit of the partisan divide in this country. It's all about ratings and ad revenue and the fact is today, people tune in to hear what they want to hear and nod their head along to everything they hear. That's why most people cannot identify individuals like Davids, Porter, Mikie Sherrill, Elissa Slotkin, etc. Instead, it's "The Squad."
both are hard left, but they represent hard left districts. Not communists, it's been fun to see the right dig that out of the 80's graveyard. However, they're great self-promoters. There's a reason why AOC is known as "Always On Camera." Don't forget this little nugget: "In any other country, Joe Biden and I would not be in the same party," in an interview with New York magazine."
And meanwhile, Joe Biden is going to be our next President and AOC and Omar have given conditional support, not a full-on endorsement (with Omar basically saying "I support him, but let's hear from Tara Reade first").
Yeah, but that isn't what I said. Their views are much more mainstream than people are led to believe. Also, she is Always On Camera partially because the right tries to use her as a talking point rather than attack her ideas. She is an attractive, smart, assertive woman who can defend her views... and that scares the hell out of a lot of them. But Trump mentions the 'squad' in all of his rallys... "AOC +3" It's red meat for his base, and it is easier to remember an acronym like AOC than it is to remember a fairly generic name like Katie Porter, or congressperson with a name like Ihan Omar. And when we are talking Trump supporters, we are talking people who remember very specific, very targeted talking points. The less they have to remember, the better. It's why when they are challenged on the talking points, they respond childishly... because they're low info voters. It's why Trump's messaging is so effective.
MSNBC is for old people, neither IO or AOC... or Bernie Sanders end up there as much as a lot of others. Have you ever considered why? Corporate media system.
Single payer health insurance support = 69%
https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/494602-poll-69-percent-of-voters-support-medicare-for-all
Tuition free college support = 58%
https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/461106-majority-of-voters-support-free-college-eliminating-student-debt
Green New Deal support = 41%
https://thehill.com/changing-america/sustainability/climate-change/517778-new-poll-finds-a-surprising-7-out-of-10-voters
So, to be clear, her views aren't far left, she is left of center... while the rest of the Democratic Party is basically centrist. So I guess you could say her and Joe Biden wouldn't be in the same party in a lot of other countries... but that makes sense because our two party system is terrible at representation.
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Has anyone tracked down the TV they donated to Marquette during the bootlicking tour that happened during Marquette Madness?
It's in the press room of the "Tom & Joni Crean Soccer Pavilion"
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It won't be a Trump backed candidate, it will be Trump himself. The GOP will still be the party of Trump, unless Ben Sasse or Mitt Romney run against him, Trump will run unopposed in 2024 should he lose in a couple weeks.
He will be living in Moscow. He ain’t running again. Take it to the bank.
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I think if you remove the names Ilhan Omar, and Alexandria Ocacio-Cortez and display only their views they'd win a lot of primaries. A lot of people have been led to believe that these women are scary commies. They aren't.
You're right. They're fookin' idiots along with those who support them.
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You're right. They're fookin' idiots along with those who support them.
And hardly representative of the party at large. Just like Steve King isn't representative of the Republicans.
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Yeah, but that isn't what I said. Their views are much more mainstream than people are led to believe. Also, she is Always On Camera partially because the right tries to use her as a talking point rather than attack her ideas. She is an attractive, smart, assertive woman who can defend her views... and that scares the hell out of a lot of them. But Trump mentions the 'squad' in all of his rallys... "AOC +3" It's red meat for his base, and it is easier to remember an acronym like AOC than it is to remember a fairly generic name like Katie Porter, or congressperson with a name like Ihan Omar. And when we are talking Trump supporters, we are talking people who remember very specific, very targeted talking points. The less they have to remember, the better. It's why when they are challenged on the talking points, they respond childishly... because they're low info voters. It's why Trump's messaging is so effective.
MSNBC is for old people, neither IO or AOC... or Bernie Sanders end up there as much as a lot of others. Have you ever considered why? Corporate media system.
Single payer health insurance support = 69%
https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/494602-poll-69-percent-of-voters-support-medicare-for-all
Tuition free college support = 58%
https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/461106-majority-of-voters-support-free-college-eliminating-student-debt
Green New Deal support = 41%
https://thehill.com/changing-america/sustainability/climate-change/517778-new-poll-finds-a-surprising-7-out-of-10-voters
So, to be clear, her views aren't far left, she is left of center... while the rest of the Democratic Party is basically centrist. So I guess you could say her and Joe Biden wouldn't be in the same party in a lot of other countries... but that makes sense because our two party system is terrible at representation.
Left of center? You are delusional. The squad are admitted socialists. That's far left, no matter what "modifier" like "Democratic" you slap on the turd of socialism.
And yes, roads, police, snow removal, blah, blah, blah.
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And hardly representative of the party at large. Just like Steve King isn't representative of the Republicans.
No man, you don't get it. If you lean left at all, you are an extremist.
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In before the lock.
But also in spite of what ziggy's ridiculous fear mongering says, democratic socialism isn't socialism. At all we've seen that all over Europe it's why Sinn Fein or the Labour Party aren't known as socialist parties anywhere in the developed world but to the far right here.
Edit: yes some purists believe it's a slow transition to socialism but most who believe in it just believe in better and more prevalent social programs to lift up society
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In before the lock.
But also in spite of what ziggy's ridiculous fear mongering says, democratic socialism isn't socialism.
Exactly. They aren't calling for the government to own the means of production.
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Yeah, but that isn't what I said. Their views are much more mainstream than people are led to believe. Also, she is Always On Camera partially because the right tries to use her as a talking point rather than attack her ideas. She is an attractive, smart, assertive woman who can defend her views... and that scares the hell out of a lot of them. But Trump mentions the 'squad' in all of his rallys... "AOC +3" It's red meat for his base, and it is easier to remember an acronym like AOC than it is to remember a fairly generic name like Katie Porter, or congressperson with a name like Ihan Omar. And when we are talking Trump supporters, we are talking people who remember very specific, very targeted talking points. The less they have to remember, the better. It's why when they are challenged on the talking points, they respond childishly... because they're low info voters. It's why Trump's messaging is so effective.
MSNBC is for old people, neither IO or AOC... or Bernie Sanders end up there as much as a lot of others. Have you ever considered why? Corporate media system.
Single payer health insurance support = 69%
https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/494602-poll-69-percent-of-voters-support-medicare-for-all
Tuition free college support = 58%
https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/461106-majority-of-voters-support-free-college-eliminating-student-debt
Green New Deal support = 41%
https://thehill.com/changing-america/sustainability/climate-change/517778-new-poll-finds-a-surprising-7-out-of-10-voters
So, to be clear, her views aren't far left, she is left of center... while the rest of the Democratic Party is basically centrist. So I guess you could say her and Joe Biden wouldn't be in the same party in a lot of other countries... but that makes sense because our two party system is terrible at representation.
C'mon now. Today's Democratic Party is left of center, and "The Squad" is well left of that.
Biden has been close to centrist most of his career, but as the Dem nominee he has been forced left by the party.
But you are right that it is Trump and his fearmongers who constantly bring up AOC & Co. Nevertheless, if the media reports what they say, Billy will say it's their "fault."
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No man, you don't get it. If you lean left at all, you are an extremist.
Thats funny coming from a rich white kid like you, Patty.
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Anyway you cut it, Foxconn is part of the Trump, Walker and Vos Wisconsin legacy. Hopefully, future generations learn from this.
I’m not holding my breath
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In before the lock.
But also in spite of what ziggy's ridiculous fear mongering says, democratic socialism isn't socialism. At all we've seen that all over Europe it's why Sinn Fein or the Labour Party aren't known as socialist parties anywhere in the developed world but to the far right here.
Edit: yes some purists believe it's a slow transition to socialism but most who believe in it just believe in better and more prevalent social programs to lift up society
What fear mongering am i engaging in, other than saying socialism doesnt work?
Must be hatd to be so fragile that calling socialism a turd is fear mongering.
Anyone know a good laptop repair shop?
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Left of center? You are delusional. The squad are admitted socialists. That's far left, no matter what "modifier" like "Democratic" you slap on the turd of socialism.
And yes, roads, police, snow removal, blah, blah, blah.
Actually "Democratic Socialists" is their term and by typical European Socialist standards they are very weak "Socialists" at best.
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What fear mongering am i engaging in, other than saying socialism doesnt work?
Must be hatd to be so fragile that calling socialism a turd is fear mongering.
Anyone know a good laptop repair shop?
You're right that socialism doesn't work (the blind squirrel has found its nut).
Good thing no one in either of our major political parties is calling for it.
Anyone know how to tuck in pants?
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What fear mongering am i engaging in, other than saying socialism doesnt work?
Must be hatd to be so fragile that calling socialism a turd is fear mongering.
Anyone know a good laptop repair shop?
I agree socialism doesn't work.
But you aren't calling it a turd you're calling democratic socialists, socialists. Democratic socialism, in check, has been shown to work in many places see literally any developed country not named the USA.
If you want to call me the fragile one go for it, I'm not the one who resorted to personal insults because he mislabeled some of our nations leaders to create fear mongering. It is par for the course from your side though.
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C'mon now. Today's Democratic Party is left of center, and "The Squad" is well left of that.
Biden has been close to centrist most of his career, but as the Dem nominee he has been forced left by the party.
But you are right that it is Trump and his fearmongers who constantly bring up AOC & Co. Nevertheless, if the media reports what they say, Billy will say it's their "fault."
No, most Dems are Neoliberal capitalist hawks. They're centrists at best. Globally, they're right wing.
SocDems are left of center. Socialists are further, and then Communists are far left.
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Thats funny coming from a rich white kid like you, Patty.
Ahh yes. Can’t argue with what was said, so throw out a personal attack about somebody you’ve never met and know nothing about. I’m shocked you support Trump!
If I am a “rich white kid,” what would make that funny?
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In before the lock.
But also in spite of what ziggy's ridiculous fear mongering says, democratic socialism isn't socialism. At all we've seen that all over Europe it's why Sinn Fein or the Labour Party aren't known as socialist parties anywhere in the developed world but to the far right here.
Edit: yes some purists believe it's a slow transition to socialism but most who believe in it just believe in better and more prevalent social programs to lift up society
I'm guessing that 95% of Americans would be unable to define the differences between socialism and democratic socialism.
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I'm guessing that 95% of Americans would be unable to define the differences between socialism and democratic socialism.
I'm guessing 95% of Americans would be unable to define socialism at all.
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No, most Dems are Neoliberal capitalist hawks. They're centrists at best. Globally, they're right wing.
SocDems are left of center. Socialists are further, and then Communists are far left.
Yep. It's why the centrist Joe Biden is in discussions with GOP members to be in his cabinet.
Someone please again tell me the Democratic party is "far-left extremists"
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But this is a dated view of Wisconsin really. AMC and Allis-Chalmers left 30 years ago. Briggs has been downsizing for years. In fact, the stories pre-Covid were more about not finding enough skilled labor to fill the needs of the area. The persistence of poverty, and low skilled labor, isn't going to be helped by putting a LCD factory in Mount Pleasant.
That being said, there is obviously room for subsidies no doubt. But subsidies of that size aren't going to pay off. That was the biggest issue - the size of the subsidy, not the subsidy itself.
Back to Foxconn.
Brother Fluff:
I hear you. I know that during the past few years, there has been such a need for employees (before the Pandemic) that some companies have taken to advertising on billboards for employees. But the fact remains that most Midwestern states have either been shrinking or growing at a pace well below national average. The lack of population growth in Illinois, for example, will mean surrendering at least one and maybe two Congressional seats. Economic growth will create opportunity to train folks in technical skills necessary for today's manufacturing. That, in turn, sets goals and hopefully will reduce poverty and increase population and economic growth in Southeast Wisconsin and Northeastern Illinois.
As to the size of the subsidy, Wisconsin wasn't competing in a vacuum. It was a binary decision between offering the most or not getting the deal. You can argue in hindsight that Wisconsin's contribution was way too much. But, something of this nature is worth taking a calculated risk.
I'd also note that the same comments were made in the early 1980s when Tennessee aggressively went after Nissan. The size of the support horrified the beleaguered Tennessee taxpayer. But the outcome was worth the investment. Not only did Nissan come, but so did suppliers who adapted to Nissan's kai ban, or just in time approach to managing inventory. Davidson and Rutherford Counties saw huge booms in supplier investment in light manufacturing, warehousing and support. The hope was and may still be in Wisconsin that the suppplier network follows Foxconn in.
Perhaps the real difference was that Nissan's investment and development happened under the administration of Gov. Lamar Alexander, who was a generally popular governor. By the time Mr. Alexander left office, the Nissan investment was up and running. By contrast, Wisconsin's deal was cut by a divided government led by an increasingly unpopular Gov. Scott Walker. When a state has major changes in an unstable and wildly conflicting government where transactions get called into question, you get Foxconn style results.
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Wisconsin's offer was worth $4.1 billion. Michigan's, widely reported as the next best, was $2.3 billion.
Tennessee's cumulative investment into Nissan, which is actually up and running and not a complete farce by the way, is about $600 million.
Foxconn was a dumb idea at the time and looks dumber in retrospect.
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dgies9156,
It's not just a matter of arguing it was a bad dead "in hindsight." Many, including many right-leaning, pro-business types, said this was a bad deal in foresight. Wisconsin plowed ahead with it anyhow.
The subsequent divided nature of state government has nothing to do with the failure here. The failure always was the likely result of this deal. I admit, the speed and scale of the failure probably surprises even the harshest of critics, but this was a loser for Wisconsin from the get go.
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Wisconsin's offer was worth $4.1 billion. Michigan's, widely reported as the next best, was $2.3 billion.
Tennessee's cumulative investment into Nissan, which is actually up and running and not a complete farce by the way, is about $600 million.
Foxconn was a dumb idea at the time and looks dumber in retrospect.
This is it in a nutshell. Couple that with Foxconn’s history of pulling similar stunts elsewhere and it was a foolish endeavor.
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Wisconsin's offer was worth $4.1 billion. Michigan's, widely reported as the next best, was $2.3 billion.
Tennessee's cumulative investment into Nissan, which is actually up and running and not a complete farce by the way, is about $600 million.
Foxconn was a dumb idea at the time and looks dumber in retrospect.
$600 million in 1980 is about $1.9 billion in 2020 if we're being totally honest here. ;D
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The $600 million is since 2000. Most in the last decade.
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dgies9156,
It's not just a matter of arguing it was a bad dead "in hindsight." Many, including many right-leaning, pro-business types, said this was a bad deal in foresight. Wisconsin plowed ahead with it anyhow.
The subsequent divided nature of state government has nothing to do with the failure here. The failure always was the likely result of this deal. I admit, the speed and scale of the failure probably surprises even the harshest of critics, but this was a loser for Wisconsin from the get go.
You beat me to this, Pak.
Many people familiar with how Foxconn operates and with the terms of this deal were calling it a boondoggle from Day 1.
Add in the fact that the politicians at the top of the national and state tickets hyped it as the Deal of the Century, and were stumbling over each other to take credit -- I mean, just LOOK at that Trump transcript that was provided earlier -- and you have the scam it turned out to be.
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You beat me to this, Pak.
Many people familiar with how Foxconn operates and with the terms of this deal were calling it a boondoggle from Day 1.
Add in the fact that the politicians at the top of the national and state tickets hyped it as the Deal of the Century, and were stumbling over each other to take credit -- I mean, just LOOK at that Trump transcript that was provided earlier -- and you have the scam it turned out to be.
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders — the most famous of which is, “Never get involved in a land war in Asia” — but only slightly less well-known is this: “Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line“
Add “don’t do business deals with Donald J. Trump”
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I don't know, so I'm asking the question sincerely...
Are state/local subsidies a good idea to encourage businesses to move to an area? Are there studies that show this is beneficial in the long term? Or is it merely a short term political stunt?
I ask because these often feel similar to asking citizens to pay for a football stadium.
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I don't know, so I'm asking the question sincerely...
Are state/local subsidies a good idea to encourage businesses to move to an area? Are there studies that show this is beneficial in the long term? Or is it merely a short term political stunt?
I ask because these often feel similar to asking citizens to pay for a football stadium.
I think they can be good if they create quality jobs. Football stadiums don't often do that.
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Is it a proven company with a history of creating good-paying American jobs? Have they been good, long-term financial stewards of cities/states that have worked with them in the past or have they just been in short-term Cash Grab mode?
I think incentives can be useful but I would look at any from foreign and/or unproven companies very skeptically.
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I don't know, so I'm asking the question sincerely...
Are state/local subsidies a good idea to encourage businesses to move to an area? Are there studies that show this is beneficial in the long term? Or is it merely a short term political stunt?
I ask because these often feel similar to asking citizens to pay for a football stadium.
There have been a ton of studies on the benefits of economic incentives and subsidies and I believe the findings have been a mixed bag. Some big successes, some huge flops. I think the more successful examples involve the incentives being highly targeted, linked directly to job creation and that bring the right kind of business to the right location (i.e. high-tech to an area that already has a high-tech base).
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dgies9156,
It's not just a matter of arguing it was a bad dead "in hindsight." Many, including many right-leaning, pro-business types, said this was a bad deal in foresight. Wisconsin plowed ahead with it anyhow.
The subsequent divided nature of state government has nothing to do with the failure here. The failure always was the likely result of this deal. I admit, the speed and scale of the failure probably surprises even the harshest of critics, but this was a loser for Wisconsin from the get go.
Brother Fluff:
1) I get it that many opposed, including conservative pundits. It was a lot of money and a high-risk strategy.
2) The bigger question is if Wisconsin passed on the Foxconn opportunity, what next? Something has to be done to create investment in a state that should have it. The old Wisconsin approach of, "of course, they're coming here. Why wouldn't they?" doesn't work anymore. Same for Illinois's naïve belief that, "oh we're Illinois. nobody is gong to leave..." We need a strategy with a defined outcome.
3) I never said Foxconn was the reason for divided government. What I said was that in Tennessee's case, during the formative nature of the Nissan investment, which was between 1979 and 1982, the government was stable and strongly in support of the investment the state made in Nissan. Governor Alexander was governor through the entire incubation and even the state's Democrats supported Nissan. By contrast, as Foxconn was in incubation, the administration in Wisconsin changed. Support for Foxconn was a flashpoint in the debate between the two parties. It didn't cause the fissure -- that occurred long ago -- but, as I note, it was a flashpoint.
4) On the question of state and local investment, unless the Congress approves and the President signs legislation banning it, which is extremely unlikely, state and local investment will be a fact of life in attracting business and industry. Look at what Illinois spent to attract Boeing and keep the soon to be failed Sears in state. I'd rather compete on the merits, but the world doesn't work that way.
It's easy to criticize, but what do we do to improve Wisconsin's and the Midwest's economic competitiveness. Apart, of course, from screwing labor.
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This is Tennessee's argument for why they did. I'm sure it weighed heavily in Wisconsin too.
https://tnecd.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Automotive-Research-Paper_01-2019-1.pdf
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I don't know, so I'm asking the question sincerely...
Are state/local subsidies a good idea to encourage businesses to move to an area? Are there studies that show this is beneficial in the long term? Or is it merely a short term political stunt?
I ask because these often feel similar to asking citizens to pay for a football stadium.
Connecticut's previous Governor was a fan. He said it was a necessary reality because other states did it.
ESPN, Pratt & Whitney, Sikorsky, Electric Boat, NBC Sports & WWE among others were beneficiaries of his First Five program. Some smaller companies lesser known moved to Connecticut as a result. They grants / no interest loans come with "guaranteed employment levels" or else there is a penalty.
GE was offered one before they moved HQ to Boston (in hindsight they probably should have taken it).
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Brother Fluff:
1) I get it that many opposed, including conservative pundits. It was a lot of money and a high-risk strategy.
2) The bigger question is if Wisconsin passed on the Foxconn opportunity, what next? Something has to be done to create investment in a state that should have it. The old Wisconsin approach of, "of course, they're coming here. Why wouldn't they?" doesn't work anymore. Same for Illinois's naïve belief that, "oh we're Illinois. nobody is gong to leave..." We need a strategy with a defined outcome.
3) I never said Foxconn was the reason for divided government. What I said was that in Tennessee's case, during the formative nature of the Nissan investment, which was between 1979 and 1982, the government was stable and strongly in support of the investment the state made in Nissan. Governor Alexander was governor through the entire incubation and even the state's Democrats supported Nissan. By contrast, as Foxconn was in incubation, the administration in Wisconsin changed. Support for Foxconn was a flashpoint in the debate between the two parties. It didn't cause the fissure -- that occurred long ago -- but, as I note, it was a flashpoint.
1. This seems to suggest that this could have paid off big-time for Wisconsin. I believe the evidence is otherwise. Even under the most favorable projections, this deal was going to cost taxpayers almost $175K per job ... and as much as $290K per job under more conservative estimates. That's eight times as much as other incentive deals the state had handed out in preceding years. And, again, under favorable projections, the state was projected to break even on the deal until 2043. This wasn't "Big risk, big reward." It was a giveaway.
2. Nobody is suggesting that states shouldn't use economic incentives to lure significant business investments. That's a bit of a straw man. We're just suggesting that the deal ought to be one that benefits both sides equally. The Foxconn deal does not, and was never going to even under the rosiest of outcomes.
As for Illinois, Boeing, Motorola, Sears, Caterpillar, Deere, Mitsubishi, Molson Coors, ConAgra and many other corporations would disagree with your suggestion that the state doesn't fork over economic incentives.
3. I believe you misinterpreted what I wrote, or I worded it poorly. I didn't suggest you blamed Foxconn for divided government, I critiqued your suggestion that Foxconn's failures are a result of divided government. I believe Foxconn would fail with a divided government or one-party rule. The post-deal politics aren't the problem. The deal is the problem.
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Interesting related Washington Post article that includes Foxconn:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/10/26/trump-carrier-manufacturing-jobs/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F2c57acf%2F5f96f8ca9d2fda0efb54a9fc%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F40%2F71%2Fb3563592a6e9cbfdd26e210ad7669201
INDIANAPOLIS and MONTERREY, Mexico — The Carrier plant in Indianapolis is where outsourcing was supposed to have stopped.
Within days of winning the 2016 election, President-elect Donald Trump persuaded the company — in return for $7 million in Indiana state incentives and some presidential goodwill — to keep in the United States most of the 1,100 jobs it had planned to ship to Mexico.
“Companies are not going to leave the United States anymore without consequences. It’s not going to happen,” Trump told cheering Carrier employees when he visited the plant. “We’re not going to have it anymore.”
Trump advertised Carrier’s Dec. 1, 2016, announcement that it would preserve about 800 jobs in Indianapolis as a decisive break from decades of U.S. executives capitalizing on lower labor costs overseas at the expense of blue-collar workers at home.
Four years later, it has proved to be nothing of the sort.
This year alone, Indiana employers have sent more jobs to Mexico, China, India and other foreign countries than were saved at Carrier. Without headlines or presidential notice, at least 17 companies — names like Vibracoustic, Molnlycke Health Care, Allura, Altex, Stanley Black & Decker, Dometic, Johnson Controls and Horizon Terra — have closed plants or otherwise reduced employment in Indiana and moved jobs abroad, according to U.S. Department of Labor filings.
Throughout his presidency, Trump has had little success with his highly personalized attempts to bend corporate decision-making to his will and reverse a generation-long decline in U.S. factory jobs. He has publicly assailed companies such as General Motors and Harley-Davidson for moving manufacturing abroad without causing them to unwind their plans.
And he has claimed credit for investments that failed to live up to advance billing, including Foxconn’s $10 billion plan to create 13,000 jobs at a new electronics factory in Wisconsin. Just this month, state officials denied the Taiwanese company special tax credits, saying it had abandoned its original commitment, employed fewer than 520 people and spent just $300 million.
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Interesting related Washington Post article that includes Foxconn:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/10/26/trump-carrier-manufacturing-jobs/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F2c57acf%2F5f96f8ca9d2fda0efb54a9fc%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F40%2F71%2Fb3563592a6e9cbfdd26e210ad7669201
INDIANAPOLIS and MONTERREY, Mexico — The Carrier plant in Indianapolis is where outsourcing was supposed to have stopped.
Within days of winning the 2016 election, President-elect Donald Trump persuaded the company — in return for $7 million in Indiana state incentives and some presidential goodwill — to keep in the United States most of the 1,100 jobs it had planned to ship to Mexico.
“Companies are not going to leave the United States anymore without consequences. It’s not going to happen,” Trump told cheering Carrier employees when he visited the plant. “We’re not going to have it anymore.”
Trump advertised Carrier’s Dec. 1, 2016, announcement that it would preserve about 800 jobs in Indianapolis as a decisive break from decades of U.S. executives capitalizing on lower labor costs overseas at the expense of blue-collar workers at home.
Four years later, it has proved to be nothing of the sort.
This year alone, Indiana employers have sent more jobs to Mexico, China, India and other foreign countries than were saved at Carrier. Without headlines or presidential notice, at least 17 companies — names like Vibracoustic, Molnlycke Health Care, Allura, Altex, Stanley Black & Decker, Dometic, Johnson Controls and Horizon Terra — have closed plants or otherwise reduced employment in Indiana and moved jobs abroad, according to U.S. Department of Labor filings.
Throughout his presidency, Trump has had little success with his highly personalized attempts to bend corporate decision-making to his will and reverse a generation-long decline in U.S. factory jobs. He has publicly assailed companies such as General Motors and Harley-Davidson for moving manufacturing abroad without causing them to unwind their plans.
And he has claimed credit for investments that failed to live up to advance billing, including Foxconn’s $10 billion plan to create 13,000 jobs at a new electronics factory in Wisconsin. Just this month, state officials denied the Taiwanese company special tax credits, saying it had abandoned its original commitment, employed fewer than 520 people and spent just $300 million.
Bringing these jobs back to America is just accelerating the move to automation. The capital requirements are high to do so but if they are being strong armed into repatrioting the production, those capital requirements and their long term ROI will be very attractive. Slapping a bandaid on a gaping wound.
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Yah capitalism!
Foxconn mostly abandons $10 billion Wisconsin project
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/04/21/foxconn-mostly-abandons-10-billion-wisconsin-project-touted-by-trump.html
Under a deal with the state of Wisconsin announced on Tuesday, Foxconn will reduce its planned investment to $672 million from $10 billion and cut the number of new jobs to 1,454 from 13,000.
Who could have predicted????
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Yah capitalism!
Foxconn mostly abandons $10 billion Wisconsin project
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/04/21/foxconn-mostly-abandons-10-billion-wisconsin-project-touted-by-trump.html
Under a deal with the state of Wisconsin announced on Tuesday, Foxconn will reduce its planned investment to $672 million from $10 billion and cut the number of new jobs to 1,454 from 13,000.
Who could have predicted????
It’s a truly stunning development that the author of the “Art of the Deal” and a college dropout got duped in this deal. I mean, utterly shocking.
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Not sure which is more shocking .. that, or the likelihood that the GOP will pay zero political price for this gigantic failure.
Oh, it didn't work at all and was a spectacular mistake? Ho hum. Where's my Arby's.
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Eh, I would argue that Walker lost the last election in part due to this failure.
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Pretty sure a FoxConn exec just bought an expensive house in Elm Grove. Wonder what that was about
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Also reminds me of when Foxconn execs came to Madness, where they were recognized and donated a TV, AN ENTIRE TELEVISION!!!! ...and people were excited about it.
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Also reminds me of when Foxconn execs came to Madness, where they were recognized and donated a TV, AN ENTIRE TELEVISION!!!! ...and people were excited about it.
Yeah that was pretty ridiculous to get excited over. I mean for the overall athletic budget a single TV is a drop in the ocean.
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I personally love the intersection of capitalism and an ever-shrinking world that leads states located mere hours apart to engage in races to the bottom and secure net-negative revenue deals for private businesses in an attempt to attract jobs that do not project to pay living wages.
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It’s a truly stunning development that the author subject of the “Art of the Deal” and a college dropout got duped in this deal. I mean, utterly shocking.
This, with a slight edit. #ETTD
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I personally love the intersection of capitalism and an ever-shrinking world that leads states located mere hours apart to engage in races to the bottom and secure net-negative revenue deals for private businesses in an attempt to attract jobs that do not project to pay living wages.
Someone referred to that as "winning."
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FoxConn was merely an attempt to sway the biggest swing district in Wisconsin, red. Big talk, lots of excitement, but the writing was on the wall from the very beginning when you heard "billion" in tax breaks for a company that makes OLED monitors - a market rife for technologic disruption. Sadly, neither party doesn't understand that you need a heavy R+D investment if you want to reshape the economy. A billion invested in R+D across several sectors would have benefitted Wisconsin much more, rather than relying on Asian investment. It's a shame how GOP is against stem cells. UW Madison has a huge advantage there, yet it's not focused upon. Manufacturing will continue to shed jobs as it becomes more automated.
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FoxConn was merely an attempt to sway the biggest swing district in Wisconsin, red. Big talk, lots of excitement, but the writing was on the wall from the very beginning when you heard "billion" in tax breaks for a company that makes OLED monitors - a market rife for technologic disruption. Sadly, neither party doesn't understand that you need a heavy R+D investment if you want to reshape the economy. A billion invested in R+D across several sectors would have benefitted Wisconsin much more, rather than relying on Asian investment. It's a shame how GOP is against stem cells. UW Madison has a huge advantage there, yet it's not focused upon. Manufacturing will continue to shed jobs as it becomes more automated.
YUP.
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FoxConn was merely an attempt to sway the biggest swing district in Wisconsin, red. Big talk, lots of excitement, but the writing was on the wall from the very beginning when you heard "billion" in tax breaks for a company that makes OLED monitors - a market rife for technologic disruption. Sadly, neither party doesn't understand that you need a heavy R+D investment if you want to reshape the economy. A billion invested in R+D across several sectors would have benefitted Wisconsin much more, rather than relying on Asian investment. It's a shame how GOP is against stem cells. UW Madison has a huge advantage there, yet it's not focused upon. Manufacturing will continue to shed jobs as it becomes more automated.
The evolution of MikeDeanesDarkGlasses into an apparently well read and nuanced poster is not one I saw coming.
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The evolution of MikeDeanesDarkGlasses into an apparently well read and nuanced poster is not one I saw coming.
+1 I'm starting to get confused
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FoxConn was merely an attempt to sway the biggest swing district in Wisconsin, red. Big talk, lots of excitement, but the writing was on the wall from the very beginning when you heard "billion" in tax breaks for a company that makes OLED monitors - a market rife for technologic disruption. Sadly, neither party doesn't understand that you need a heavy R+D investment if you want to reshape the economy. A billion invested in R+D across several sectors would have benefitted Wisconsin much more, rather than relying on Asian investment. It's a shame how GOP is against stem cells. UW Madison has a huge advantage there, yet it's not focused upon. Manufacturing will continue to shed jobs as it becomes more automated.
Very true. The GOP position on funding of stem cell research is especially disappointing.
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MDDG....where is this coming from????
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Also reminds me of when Foxconn execs came to Madness, where they were recognized and donated a TV, AN ENTIRE TELEVISION!!!! ...and people were excited about it.
Still waitin' on the Tommy and Joanie Soccer Memorial Multiplex Stadium ta bust ground, hey?