MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: GooooMarquette on September 18, 2020, 06:43:26 PM
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RIP.
https://www.npr.org/2020/09/18/100306972/justice-ruth-bader-ginsburg-champion-of-gender-equality-dies-at-87
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Preemptively here to say f.uck Mitch McConnell
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Oh the hypocrisy from four years ago will be stunning.
But they won’t care.
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I am in despair.
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I am hoping we can keep this from becoming too political. Justice Ginsburg was a remarkable justice, and an even more remarkable human being. It would certainly pay homage to her legacy if Senator McConnell lets the people decide like he did in 2016...but regardless of how that plays out, we should recognize the incredible human being we lost today.
Let's just share a moment of peace in honor of Justice Ginsburg.
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RIP
And this will be a sh*tshow.
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Neal Katyal initial reaction:
https://twitter.com/neal_katyal/status/1307104749079142400?s=19
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A legend and a giant. RIP.
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RIP
And this will be a sh*tshow.
Murkowski and Grassley have previously said they are opposed to filling the seat in 2020. Need two more. Collins and Romney.
Thought she should have retired in 2015 considering her health issues.
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Oh the hypocrisy from four years ago will be stunning.
But they won’t care.
This
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I can see Grassley flipping on the issue. Collins might be ok, given her tough race. She can’t afford to antagonize more independents, I think.
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Murkowski and Grassley have previously said they are opposed to filling the seat in 2020. Need two more. Collins and Romney.
Thought she should have retired in 2015 considering her health issues.
Grassley will fold. Collins will make her usual concerned noises before folding.
Romney, maybe Murkowski, and...???
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I can see Grassley flipping on the issue. Collins might be ok, given her tough race. She can’t afford to antagonize more independents, I think.
She's down 12. She's cooked anyway.
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Neal Katyal initial reaction:
https://twitter.com/neal_katyal/status/1307104749079142400?s=19
This gave me something to hold on to for sanity after yelling "F*ck!!!" and freaking out the kids. Her legacy is monument of its own.
Also.....2020 can suck a big fat D
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Grassley will fold. Collins will make her usual concerned noises before folding.
Romney, maybe Murkowski, and...???
My guess is that Grassley joins her as a proceduralist, Romney joins on principle and to stick it to Trump.
Then they can say they voted their conscience, still reap the benefits, and Mike Pence will orgasm all over the senate floor as he casts the deciding vote.
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@briantylercohen: NEW: Lisa Murkowski (R-AK) announces she will NOT vote to replace RBG on SCOTUS until after Election Day. "Fair is fair," she says.
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@briantylercohen: NEW: Lisa Murkowski (R-AK) announces she will NOT vote to replace RBG on SCOTUS until after Election Day. "Fair is fair," she says.
Just a clarification, she said this, this afternoon during normal Q&A, not in response to her death.
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Wow, 2020 is really an exciting year.
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/QMHoU66sBXqqLqYvGO/giphy.gif)
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This gave me something to hold on to for sanity after yelling "F*ck!!!" and freaking out the kids. Her legacy is monument of its own.
Also.....2020 can suck a big fat D
Neal Katyal is very level headed.
Also besides expanding Supreme Court from 9 to 11, Democrats could also expand lower federal courts by 70-100 new judgeships etc....if Republicans tried to rush someone for Supreme Court. They have options.
Meanwhile, here is NY Times on RBG:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/18/us/ruth-bader-ginsburg-dead.html#click=https://t.co/lthk3uLebO
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Senate is controlled by the republicans.
#donedeal 6-3
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you've got to admit, she was one tough lady...rest in peace rbg
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I am hoping we can keep this from becoming too political.
Sure.
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Senate is controlled by the republicans.
#donedeal 6-3
Hypocrites 53-47.
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https://twitter.com/ShaneGoldmacher/status/1307112644705497088?s=19
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Neal Katyal is very level headed.
Maybe he is, but I disagree with his analysis. Exactly what "devastating consequences" will Trump face by filling the seat?
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Neal Katyal is very level headed.
Also besides expanding Supreme Court from 9 to 11, Democrats could also expand lower federal courts by 70-100 new judgeships etc....if Republicans tried to rush someone for Supreme Court. They have options.
Meanwhile, here is NY Times on RBG:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/18/us/ruth-bader-ginsburg-dead.html#click=https://t.co/lthk3uLebO
I was just reading Neal Katyal before coming here.
I'm convinced the Senate is going Dem. If the Repubs push through someone it will give conver to expanding courts and the Dems will make sure they do. It would be a terrible backfire pushing one through.
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https://twitter.com/ShaneGoldmacher/status/1307112644705497088?s=19
Graham will immediately fold. I have no idea what Trump showed him that first time they played golf, but my god whatever it was was incredibly effective.
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I was just reading Neal Katyal before coming here.
I'm convinced the Senate is going Dem. If the Repubs push through someone it will give conver to expanding courts and the Dems will make sure they do. It would be a terrible backfire pushing one through.
Wish I could agree, but IMO most Americans will think pushing through a replacement is normal and probably aren't even faintly aware of McConnell's pretty boy move in 2016. Packing the courts with additional justices is something new and will stir greater backfire.
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An American legend and hero. Among the best of the best. She will be gravely missed.
I'm not a lawyer, but I work with them on a daily basis and spend a lot of my working hours trying to make sense of and interpret judicial rulings. I enjoy reading a well crafted opinion and have gone so far as to start reading them on my own time for fun/development. I have an appreciation for snark in all its forms and legal snark is the best kind of snark. None were better at this then the Queen of Dissent.
RIP.
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Thought she should have retired in 2015 considering her health issues.
For the left, this.
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Maybe he is, but I disagree with his analysis. Exactly what "devastating consequences" will Trump face by filling the seat?
I've already seen a lot of this tonight:
https://twitter.com/EdMarkey/status/1307122232850870274?s=19
https://twitter.com/brianschatz/status/1307132740467396608?s=19
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Mcconnell just said a nominee will receive a vote.
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Graham and Collins are in tight Senate races.
If they decide not to vote for a SCOTUS nominee, they will lose XX% of their GOP base and guarantee their loss.
If it were to be delayed, it'd have to be in a way that didn't pin it on specific Senators. That's a pipe dream. It's going to happen.
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Sure.
A great American has died.
Wonderful time for snarky comments.
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Graham will immediately fold. I have no idea what Trump showed him that first time they played golf, but my god whatever it was was incredibly effective.
"we will out your homosexuality"
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Nm
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Senate is controlled by the republicans.
#donedeal 6-3
Character revealed.
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Character revealed.
Same guy who posts Islamophobic chain letters on a public message board, so are ya really surprised?
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Sure.
Agreed Lenny. I laughed out loud when I read that.
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I was just reading Neal Katyal before coming here.
I'm convinced the Senate is going Dem. If the Repubs push through someone it will give conver to expanding courts and the Dems will make sure they do. It would be a terrible backfire pushing one through.
Katyal said tonight that one of the consequences of playing games with the court 2016/2020 could be expanding Supreme Court to 17.
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A great American has died.
Wonderful time for snarky comments.
It’s what she was known for, too. Supreme Court decisions aren’t theater. They’re the most important arbiter of the law that we have. And if RBG can be known for prideful snark amidst clever commentary while dissenting in Supreme Court decisions, it isn’t disrespectful to respond in kind now.
The best thing that can be taken away from RBG is that she will remain a crucial influence for some of the most important women people that will shape the second half of this century. More prescient to the immediate moment is that in her later years, she lost sight of how, when you hold a lifetime position, when to walk away is the most important part of living up to and safeguarding the principles you profess to hold most dear.
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Katyal said tonight that one of the consequences of playing games with the court 2016/2020 could be expanding Supreme Court to 17.
With all due respect to Katyal, who is a great mind, the Dems have not shown an ability to back up their threats in my lifetime (and I'm young, so surely before too). Maybe this is a galvanizing moment, but I just don't see it coming to fruition in under the current leadership.
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Character revealed.
Just the facts Ma'am, hey?
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Just the facts Ma'am, hey?
NM
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With all due respect to Katyal, who is a great mind, the Dems have not shown an ability to back up their threats in my lifetime (and I'm young, so surely before too). Maybe this is a galvanizing moment, but I just don't see it coming to fruition in under the current leadership.
I don't disagree with that. But I do believe it may be different this time for them.
There's a difference in the sense many apolitical types have had enough of some people and some things over the years, and have been pulled into the fray. But I understand and I can't disagree with your point.
I can say the news is motivating voters. The "Get Mitch or die trying" Senate fund raised over $10 million in just a few hours from over 100,000 donors. The money goes to roughly a dozen close Senate races. Maine voters disapproved of Susan Collins Supreme Court Kavanaugh vote 55-38 percent. (Siena poll) She is down big in the polls for November. There are also various other ways of consequences.
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As a friend of mine said yesterday, the party who preached about the danger of situational ethics a couple decades ago, is going to (again) pretty much engage in obvious situational ethics in the coming weeks.
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I don't disagree with that. But I do believe it may be different this time for them.
There's a difference in the sense many apolitical types have had enough of some people and some things over the years, and have been pulled into the fray. But I understand and I can't disagree with your point.
My thoughts exactly. If the Dems gain the power would they act in any way remotely close to that of McConnell? No (and I can already hear the clearly flawed argument that Mitch is only acting as a result of increased EO's under Obama) but I do think they'll be less respectful of the process than they have in the recent past because they realize they represent the majority of US citizens. Will it be supreme courts seats, HB1, DC statehood, ending the filibuster, other court changes? I don't know but I know that some Dems will view lack of success on anything short of the full list as failure, and R's will view any one of these as the worst affront to the constitution and 'christian' values this country has seen - neither one will be right.
Addition: Jason Kander, and his pod mate whose name I can't remember, had a pretty good initial reaction last night on their Majority 54 podcast. Only 20 minutes.
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Another interesting thing is 4 of 5 Conservative Supreme Court Justices were nominated by Presidents who did not win the popular vote.
Many things are in play if games are played with the Court:
Filibuster
Expand Supreme Court
Expand lower federal court judgeships
Expand number of states
Abolish The Electoral College
Number of Senators per State
to name a few.
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"we will out your homosexuality"
That is the common thought, but it has been the rumor for so long and pretty much already assumed to be true by so many that just confirming it wouldn't seem to me to be a big deal. I mean, I know it is South Carolina, but they already elected an African-American Senator, would confirming that Graham is gay really be a big deal? He is inoculated just be having the R after his name.
It seems to be it has to be something bigger, perhaps something that would not just embarrass him, but land him in legal trouble, to explain the magnitude of the about face from rightfully calling Trump deranged and unfit in 2016 to now being his number 1 lickspittle.
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Another interesting thing is 4 of 5 Conservative Supreme Court Justices were nominated by Presidents who did not win the popular vote.
Many things are in play if games are played with the Court:
Filibuster
Expand Supreme Court
Expand lower federal court judgeships
Expand number of states
Abolish The Electoral College
Number of Senators per State
to name a few.
A several of these pipe dreams would require amendments, so not going to happen (electoral college, #of senators. )
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While I have a lot of thoughts on this issue and what the fallout will be, this isn't the forum for that, so I'll keep it simple.
RBG was an absolute icon, a hero, a role model. She was a fierce advocate for the rights of all Americans. One of the toughest human beings of our generation. I can't imagine having to fight through even 10% of what she had to in her life and career, and she did it with honor and grace. Her death is a great loss, but her impact will reverberate through our society for a long time to come. A very sad day for this nation.
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An American legend and hero. Among the best of the best. She will be gravely missed.
I'm not a lawyer, but I work with them on a daily basis and spend a lot of my working hours trying to make sense of and interpret judicial rulings. I enjoy reading a well crafted opinion and have gone so far as to start reading them on my own time for fun/development. I have an appreciation for snark in all its forms and legal snark is the best kind of snark. None were better at this then the Queen of Dissent.
RIP.
I'll raise you one Scalia (the King of Dissent) and RGB would probably agree as they were great friends.
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I'll raise you one Scalia (the King of Dissent) and RGB would probably agree as they were great friends.
The very definition of Strange Bedfellows
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Graham and Collins are in tight Senate races.
If they decide not to vote for a SCOTUS nominee, they will lose XX% of their GOP base and guarantee their loss.
If it were to be delayed, it'd have to be in a way that didn't pin it on specific Senators. That's a pipe dream. It's going to happen.
I could see Trump putting out a nominee. The Senate could say were going to vet that nominee and that is at far as it goes. If Senators are asked if they support his choice they cal always say yes I like his pick but will see as we are still in the process of vetting the candidate. So no Republican in a contested race is on the record of voting for or against.
Now Trump can pound Biden asking him to choose who he would put on the court and as the Democrats have cried let the voters decide whose pick they would choose.
I have no idea what is going to happen and though I'm not a Biden voter I do believe we the people should decide and not have partisans decide for us. You could bet if the shoe were on the other foot Democrats would do whatever it took to get their pick through the Senate.
Interesting times we live in.
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The very definition of Strange Bedfellows
...or opposites (minds) attract.
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I have no idea what is going to happen and though I'm not a Biden voter I do believe we the people should decide and not have partisans decide for us. You could bet if the shoe were on the other foot Democrats would do whatever it took to get their pick through the Senate.
I really don't think it would be a contested issue if McConnell hadn't come up with a new theory to deny Merrick Garland.
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...or opposites (minds) attract.
Or that people can be friends despite political differences. Too many let politics define themselves.
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Or that people can be friends despite political differences. Too many let politics define themselves.
+ a billion.
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That is the common thought, but it has been the rumor for so long and pretty much already assumed to be true by so many that just confirming it wouldn't seem to me to be a big deal. I mean, I know it is South Carolina, but they already elected an African-American Senator, would confirming that Graham is gay really be a big deal? He is inoculated just be having the R after his name.
It seems to be it has to be something bigger, perhaps something that would not just embarrass him, but land him in legal trouble, to explain the magnitude of the about face from rightfully calling Trump deranged and unfit in 2016 to now being his number 1 lickspittle.
I'm gay. You are viewing it from the lens of other people, not Lindsey. He has based his entire life, personality, & brain processes around being in the closet. This generally eats children alive by the time they're finished with high school, & they come out. Now multiply that by decades. It is hardened into his brain like granite & the brain will do anything it can to protect itself.
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A true boss. RIP
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Graham will immediately fold. I have no idea what Trump showed him that first time they played golf, but my god whatever it was was incredibly effective.
Ayup. Record folding speed. No honor, no integrity.
"Sen. Lindsey Graham, who said in 2016 to “use my words against me” if he were to advocate the nomination of a Supreme Court justice in any President’s final year of their term, feels very differently in 2020.
Following the death of Ruth Bader Ginsburg on Friday, Graham retweeted President Trump’s comment that the GOP has an “obligation, without delay” to appoint a new justice to the Supreme Court, adding that, “I fully understand where President @realDonaldTrump is coming from.”
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+ a billion.
Agreed. I have friends with whom I have vast differences of opinion on things like guns, race relations and such. That doesn’t make them any less friends. It just means we are better off not talking about those subjects unless we are prepared for it to get heated.
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RBG in her own words:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/09/rbgs-life-her-own-words/616414/?utm_medium=social&utm_content=edit-promo&utm_source=twitter&utm_term=2020-09-19T15%3A47%3A18&utm_campaign=the-atlantic
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Or that people can be friends despite political differences. Too many let politics define themselves.
you're on a roll sully! i wish we could have the day back when people need not be afraid of who they support
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There aren’t many afraid of who they support.
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Agreed. I have friends with whom I have vast differences of opinion on things like guns, race relations and such. That doesn’t make them any less friends. It just means we are better off not talking about those subjects unless we are prepared for it to get heated.
Maybe I lucky (or just old) but I can still talk policy re pretty much everything with at least my longtime friends. We trust each other enough to know that we all want a better world even if we don’t agree on the best path to get there.
Among other things, gerrymandering, the Internet, cable news and the 24 hour news cycle have conspired to make us less civil to one another. Wish I had a solution.
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Maybe I lucky (or just old) but I can still talk policy re pretty much everything with at least my longtime friends. We trust each other enough to know that we all want a better world even if we don’t agree on the best path to get there.
Among other things, gerrymandering, the Internet, cable news and the 24 hour news cycle have conspired to make us less civil to one another. Wish I had a solution.
You can be a conservative without supporting Trump. Simple.
I have no problem with conservative values. But maybe we can stop pretending that Trump holds conservative values. He's a despicable human being masquerading as a conservative, and I feel like a lot of people aren't being honest about their support for him. If a lot of people would just come out and say that it's about judges, then I can come to terms with the support of Trump. But as a person, he is a ghoul. I can openly say I don't like Hillary and held my nose when I voted for her in '16. But why can't conservatives simply admit that they did the same with Trump?
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There aren’t many afraid of who they support.
there may not be "many", but not many is still too many
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there may not be "many", but not many is still too many
OK yeah... I know this is a new conservative mantra but whatever...
It's amazing that the group that used to preach against both being a victim and situational ethics has completely changed their tune on both.
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Oh and rule of man versus rule of law. That too.
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You can be a conservative without supporting Trump. Simple.
I have no problem with conservative values. But maybe we can stop pretending that Trump holds conservative values. He's a despicable human being masquerading as a conservative, and I feel like a lot of people aren't being honest about their support for him. If a lot of people would just come out and say that it's about judges, then I can come to terms with the support of Trump. But as a person, he is a ghoul. I can openly say I don't like Hillary and held my nose when I voted for her in '16. But why can't conservatives simply admit that they did the same with Trump?
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Hards
I know a LOT of Conservatives. A few hated Trump and voted for Hillary. More who didn’t vote for Hillary are now supporting Biden. Still more (I’m in this group) left their presidential ballot blank and will do the same this year. Many held their noses and voted for Trump based on policy promises. They’ll do the same this year after 4 years of watching what he’s actually done (jobs, China, new trade agreements with Mexico and Canada, prison reform, no new wars, Judges, etc.,). But they still can’t stand the guy personally. I can count on less than one hand conservative friends/acquaintances who actually like the guy, and even they concede that some of the stuff he pulls (and tweets) is out of bounds.
From my experience I just don’t understand your post.
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OK yeah... I know this is a new conservative mantra but whatever...
It's amazing that the group that used to preach against both being a victim and situational ethics has completely changed their tune on both.
speaking of assumptive generalizations, i bring you the sultan
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Will wade vs roe be overturned now?
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It’s Roe v Wade.
The women who came after the Boomers have grown up with it and have not realized it could be in jeopardy until recently. O
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Will wade vs roe be overturned now?
eyes have been opened and opinions have changed with the more recent radical shift toward allowing abortion right up to the moment of birth and pp being a center for women's health needs. it's no wonder the real story of margaret sanger isn't widely told or taught. that would really hurt their cause. especially with one group of people
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If this had happened with hillary as president and schumer as senate maj leader, do you think Dems would fill the seat? Of course they would. All you liberals are delusional.
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If this had happened with hillary as president and schumer as senate maj leader, do you think Dems would fill the seat? Of course they would. All you liberals are delusional.
Yes they would have. Just like they tried to do back in 2016.
Dems weren't the ones crying back in 2016 that the voters should decide, and holding up the Merrick Garland nomination for months (not weeks). Some examples:
Ted Cruz: “It has been 80 years since a Supreme Court vacancy was nominated and confirmed in an election year. There is a long tradition that you don’t do this in an election year.”
Lindsey Graham: “If an opening comes in the last year of President Trump’s term, and the primary process has started, we’ll wait to the next election.”
Now apparently the voters don't get to decide. I know nuance is tough for some, but this is pretty straight up hypocrisy.
And people don't care. I mean, the SAY they care about lifelong politicians lying to them, but in the end, if those politicians generally agree with them, they don't care.
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Yes they would have. Just like they tried to do back in 2016.
Dems weren't the ones crying back in 2016 that the voters should decide, and holding up the Merrick Garland nomination for months (not weeks). Some examples:
Ted Cruz: “It has been 80 years since a Supreme Court vacancy was nominated and confirmed in an election year. There is a long tradition that you don’t do this in an election year.”
Lindsey Graham: “If an opening comes in the last year of President Trump’s term, and the primary process has started, we’ll wait to the next election.”
Now apparently the voters don't get to decide. I know nuance is tough for some, but this is pretty straight up hypocrisy.
And people don't care. I mean, the SAY they care about lifelong politicians lying to them, but in the end, if those politicians generally agree with them, they don't care.
back then, during the merrick garland issue, the senate used the "biden rule" and the republicans had a majority in the senate, as they do today. there are some very good reasons, however unfortunately or not, we are going to need a full 9 member supreme court after november 3. all is fair in love and war
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back then, during the merrick garland issue, the senate used the "biden rule" and the republicans had a majority in the senate, as they do today. there are some very good reasons, however unfortunately or not, we are going to need a full 9 member supreme court after november 3. all is fair in love and war
Character revealed.
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Will wade vs roe be overturned now?
Depends on whether there's a strong ass offer.
In all seriousness, it really depends on whether you believe the conservative justices will stand by their sworn testimony during their conformance hearings. Every single one of them said they would abide by the doctrine of stare decisis. If they're men of their word, Roe v Wade is settled law.
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nm
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Character revealed.
yes indeed-
"Former Vice President Joe Biden declared in 2016 that if he were chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee he would push ahead with the nomination of a Supreme Court justice "even a few months before a presidential election."
https://www.newsweek.com/biden-2016-president-has-constitutional-duty-nominate-supreme-court-justice-even-months-1533106
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yes indeed-
"Former Vice President Joe Biden declared in 2016 that if he were chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee he would push ahead with the nomination of a Supreme Court justice "even a few months before a presidential election."
https://www.newsweek.com/biden-2016-president-has-constitutional-duty-nominate-supreme-court-justice-even-months-1533106
You miss the (whole) point where the Senate judiciary committee is not the Senate, which results in a fundamentally different (wrong) reading of what Biden says.
But why would we expect 'conservative' lemmings to act in good faith when their idols don't?
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Yes they would have. Just like they tried to do back in 2016.
Dems weren't the ones crying back in 2016 that the voters should decide, and holding up the Merrick Garland nomination for months (not weeks). Some examples:
Ted Cruz: “It has been 80 years since a Supreme Court vacancy was nominated and confirmed in an election year. There is a long tradition that you don’t do this in an election year.”
Lindsey Graham: “If an opening comes in the last year of President Trump’s term, and the primary process has started, we’ll wait to the next election.”
Now apparently the voters don't get to decide. I know nuance is tough for some, but this is pretty straight up hypocrisy.
And people don't care. I mean, the SAY they care about lifelong politicians lying to them, but in the end, if those politicians generally agree with them, they don't care.
It’s absolutely not hypocrisy because right now the Rs control the Presidency and the Senate. It was divided in 2016. There is ample precedent going back over a 100 years for a president to put through a nominee in an election year so long as he has an agreeable senate going back to John Adams and John Marshall.
The President and the Senate both have a part to play.
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Over/under on the amount of times DJT progeny have been aborted?
And his campaign manager?
Etc.
The most depressing aspect of all of this is that really, nothing actually matters at all. Outside of a lot of people feeling like they're right, & reveling in it. Nothing actually matters.
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OK. I guess we're done mourning the loss of Ruth Bader Ginsburg.