MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: shoothoops on September 03, 2020, 08:13:54 PM
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https://twitter.com/DeviShastri/status/1301670324384210944?s=19
Pretty hard to believe, and sad, that in 2020, it took this much effort from MU Black Students for some of these basic standard things elsewhere. Nonetheless, it was a good day for Black students at Maquette
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Awesome to see students standing up and being the author's of their own college experience. Good for them and good for the university.
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Good for them. Curious what a black cultural student center means? Is this African American? Include Darker Caribbean individuals (Jamaica, Bahamas)? Africa itself? It seems rather broad and I hope they aren't just giving into a Cultural center for a modern expectation of what being black means in America today for many young men and women and instead give a well rounded cultural center where people of all African descended backgrounds can feel welcome.
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Good for them. Curious what a black cultural student center means? Is this African American? Include Darker Caribbean individuals (Jamaica, Bahamas)? Africa itself? It seems rather broad and I hope they aren't just giving into a Cultural center for a modern expectation of what being black means in America today for many young men and women and instead give a well rounded cultural center where people of all African descended backgrounds can feel welcome.
Likely anyone who identifies as Black.
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Nice
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Yes this would be for any Black person of a variety of backgrounds.
As much as MU needs to increase its Black student body population, (having it to from 4% to 10% isn't a big ask) and have it feel more inclusive, Black faculty and staff representation is even worse statistically. This is a priority.
Local minorities are underepresented at MU in a variety of ways. Hopefully eventually over time, an additional step is to also recruit Black and people of color from a wider range of geographies when local representation improves. MU is about 3/4 WIsconsin, Illinois population and I would like to see that drop to 50%, with more wider range geographies represented as well.
But this is a good initial step for MU and the Black population of MU.
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These are great changes, long overdue but Kudos for the students for fighting for them!
40 full ride scholarships for MPS grads is great. There are some REALLY smart kids in those schools who would excel at MU but it was probably never on the table due to cost.
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Yes this would be for any Black person of a variety of backgrounds.
As much as MU needs to increase its Black student body population, (having it to from 4% to 10% isn't a big ask) and have it feel more inclusive, Black faculty and staff representation is even worse statistically. This is a priority.
Local minorities are underepresented at MU in a variety of ways. Hopefully eventually over time, an additional step is to also recruit Black and people of color from a wider range of geographies when local representation improves. MU is about 3/4 WIsconsin, Illinois population and I would like to see that drop to 50%, with more wider range geographies represented as well.
But this is a good initial step for MU and the Black population of MU.
Are there that many black Catholics in the US? As a Catholic why would I want to attend Liberty Baptist or SMU, when I could go to Georgetown, Notre Dame or Marquette? Could it be that blacks just don't apply because they are not Catholic?
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Are there that many black Catholics in the US? As a Catholic why would I want to attend Liberty Baptist or SMU, when I could go to Georgetown, Notre Dame or Marquette? Could it be that blacks just don't apply because they are not Catholic?
Good question
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_of_Black_Americans#Religious_demographics
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Are there that many black Catholics in the US? As a Catholic why would I want to attend Liberty Baptist or SMU, when I could go to Georgetown, Notre Dame or Marquette? Could it be that blacks just don't apply because they are not Catholic?
I'm sure that's part of it, but cost, image and comfort are likely larger factors.
My anecdotal experience is that those who do the actual churchy things, are seen by many multicultural students as assets more than anything. I know a number of priests who are as conservative theologically as all get out, but who have fully embraced the Black Lives Matter slogan and who are quite "left" on issues dealing with immigration.
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Are there that many black Catholics in the US? As a Catholic why would I want to attend Liberty Baptist or SMU, when I could go to Georgetown, Notre Dame or Marquette? Could it be that blacks just don't apply because they are not Catholic?
Almost half of the incoming MU Class of 2023 is not Catholic (45%) according to MU. I can assure you that half of the student body at MU is not Black.
Diversity, inclusion, and representation is not limited to race.
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Are there that many black Catholics in the US? As a Catholic why would I want to attend Liberty Baptist or SMU, when I could go to Georgetown, Notre Dame or Marquette? Could it be that blacks just don't apply because they are not Catholic?
Over 3 million.
https://www.usccb.org/committees/african-american-affairs/demographics
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Almost half of the incoming MU Class of 2023 is not Catholic (45%) according to MU. I can assure you that half of the student body at MU is not Black.
Diversity, inclusion, and representation is not limited to race.
This is much higher than it was when I attended 15 years ago. I think we were like 65-35 Catholic.
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Almost half of the incoming MU Class of 2023 is not Catholic (45%) according to MU. I can assure you that half of the student body at MU is not Black.
Diversity, inclusion, and representation is not limited to race.
I am not Catholic and it did not stop me from attending MU. In fact, my grandfather was a Disciples of Christ pastor and I grew up in the Presbyterian church. What MU offered as an institution overall went beyond religious identity.
I just had to work harder than others to pull an A in THEO 001
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I am not Catholic and it did not stop me from attending MU. In fact, my grandfather was a Disciples of Christ pastor and I grew up in the Presbyterian church. What MU offered as an institution overall went beyond religious identity.
Agree. The Catholic experience is as much or as little as you want to make of it.
Want to attend daily mass and get involved in campus ministry? Opportunities are there.
If not, the only real reminders are the 2 required theology courses and crucifixes on the wall.
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I am not Catholic and it did not stop me from attending MU. In fact, my grandfather was a Disciples of Christ pastor and I grew up in the Presbyterian church. What MU offered as an institution overall went beyond religious identity.
I just had to work harder than others to pull an A in THEO 001
My three THEO professors at MU were a Lutheran pastor, an Eastern Orthodox monk and a Jesuit. (Sounds like a bad bar joke.)
And the Jesuit's class was on Islam.
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My three THEO professors at MU were a Lutheran pastor, an Eastern Orthodox monk and a Jesuit. (Sounds like a bad bar joke.)
And the Jesuit's class was on Islam.
I had a Baptist minister and a former first grade teacher for my two THEO classes. Had several Jesuits for classes in other disciplines.
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Had a Rabi and retired priest unsure if he was a Jesuit for my two THEO classes.
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It is funny now that I think of it. I had several Jesuits for history and philosophy. Theology not so much.
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My three THEO professors at MU were a Lutheran pastor, an Eastern Orthodox monk and a Jesuit. (Sounds like a bad bar joke.)
And the Jesuit's class was on Islam.
I had Father Gronski (sp?) for 001. He was awesome and helped me out a lot. I do laugh at the fact my worst THEO grade was Protestant Thought and Practice. Chalk that up to senioritis.
My grandmother was afraid I’d be “converted” going to MU. ;D ;D
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Out of curiosity since anthropologically speaking race is a social construct, I wonder what the criteria is to receive these scholarships? And how do you avoid future lawsuits if you exclude someone in a situation of say "I'm sorry your single African American grandparent doesn't meet the criteria"?
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Out of curiosity since anthropologically speaking race is a social construct, I wonder what the criteria is to receive these scholarships? And how do you avoid future lawsuits if you exclude someone in a situation of say "I'm sorry your single African American grandparent doesn't meet the criteria"?
Most schools aren't accepting race-based scholarships donations but instead are using the phrase "underrepresented" or something similar. In addition, most scholarship criteria allow for revision in case the criteria become illegal. Or if the donor is alive, you can simply ask them.
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I am not Catholic and it did not stop me from attending MU. In fact, my grandfather was a Disciples of Christ pastor and I grew up in the Presbyterian church. What MU offered as an institution overall went beyond religious identity.
I just had to work harder than others to pull an A in THEO 001
One of my very good Marquette's friend's dad was a Lutheran Bishop.
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Out of curiosity since anthropologically speaking race is a social construct, I wonder what the criteria is to receive these scholarships? And how do you avoid future lawsuits if you exclude someone in a situation of say "I'm sorry your single African American grandparent doesn't meet the criteria"?
I don't think the criteria is race-based. It is for MPS grads: white, black, hispanic, asian, whatever. But the overwhelming majority of MPS kids are non-white.
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A lot of the posts below just demonstrate how much MU has lost its Catholic identity. All my professors (i.e. 1960s) in theology and philosophy except for two were Jusuits or Franciscan. Looks like the theology department has abandoned Catholic theology for the most part if not all together. I was required to take 6 theology and 4 philosophy courses for graduation.
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A lot of the posts below just demonstrate how much MU has lost its Catholic identity. All my professors (i.e. 1960s) in theology and philosophy except for two were Jusuits or Franciscan. Looks like the theology department has abandoned Catholic theology for the most part if not all together. I was required to take 6 theology and 4 philosophy courses for graduation.
As other posters said, one can immerse oneself in Marquette's Catholic identity if one wants to, but IMHO it's great that one does not have to be Catholic -- or even religious -- to get a rich experience at Marquette.
It's smart business, too. If Marquette limited itself to Catholic students, or aimed for something like 80-90%, it would die a slow death.
Marquette's identity is plenty Catholic. As is the case with most things, "the good old days" weren't all that good for vast swaths of American society. Look forward, not back.
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A lot of the posts below just demonstrate how much MU has lost its Catholic identity. All my professors (i.e. 1960s) in theology and philosophy except for two were Jusuits or Franciscan. Looks like the theology department has abandoned Catholic theology for the most part if not all together. I was required to take 6 theology and 4 philosophy courses for graduation.
You see posts about social justice and ecumenism as evidence Marquette has somehow abandoned its identity, but aren't social justice and ecumenism ingrained parts of the Jesuit mission?
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As other posters said, one can immerse oneself in Marquette's Catholic identity if one wants to, but IMHO it's great that one does not have to be Catholic -- or even religious -- to get a rich experience at Marquette.
It's smart business, too. If Marquette limited itself to Catholic students, or aimed for something like 80-90%, it would die a slow death.
Marquette's identity is plenty Catholic. As is the case with most things, "the good old days" weren't all that good for vast swaths of American society. Look forward, not back.
All I am saying is that if you want your child to get a Catholic education, Marquette is no longer that place. Where does a Catholic student go to learn Catholic theology taught by Catholic cleric theologians at Marquette, not just immerse themselves in "Catholic" identity taught by non-Catholics? Who are the Jesuits in the Theology or Sociology department at Marquette that teach social justice and ecumenism? There are Catholic Universities and colleges that still do that. I am not sure how getting a Catholic education is looking back and not forward.
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All I am saying is that if you want your child to get a Catholic education, Marquette is no longer that place. Where does a Catholic student go to learn Catholic theology taught by Catholic cleric theologians at Marquette, not just immerse themselves in "Catholic" identity taught by non-Catholics? Who are the Jesuits in the Theology or Sociology department at Marquette that teach social justice and ecumenism? There are Catholic Universities and colleges that still do that. I am not sure how getting a Catholic education is looking back and not forward.
Thanks for the response. Rather than comment further, I will defer to Scoopers who know more about Catholicism, and who also know more about Marquette’s current Jesuit identity and commitment.
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Are there that many black Catholics in the US? As a Catholic why would I want to attend Liberty Baptist or SMU, when I could go to Georgetown, Notre Dame or Marquette? Could it be that blacks just don't apply because they are not Catholic?
You are aware that Georgetown University was down to 40% Catholic student body more than a decade ago, yes?
You are also aware that for many, Church Doctrine is a living breathing document, the same as the Constitution, and can be amended over time?
As for this thread, hopefully Marquette continues to prioritize, and step up more often for its Black Students, Faculty, and Staff, and people of color.
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You are aware that Georgetown University has been 40% Catholic or less for over a decade now, yes?
You are also aware that for many, Church Doctrine is a living breathing document, the same as the Constitution, and can be amended over time?
As for this thread, hopefully Marquette continues to prioritize, and step up more often for its Black Students, Faculty, and Staff, and people of color.
All I am saying is why would a Christian black student apply to Marquette when there are choices like these for that student which may be a better fit.
https://www.onlinechristiancolleges.com/best/hbcu/
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You are aware that Georgetown University was down to 40% Catholic student body more than a decade ago, yes?
You are also aware that for many, Church Doctrine is a living breathing document, the same as the Constitution, and can be amended over time?
As for this thread, hopefully Marquette continues to prioritize, and step up more often for its Black Students, Faculty, and Staff, and people of color.
Of course some Doctrine can change, but are the Catholic students at Marquette discussing which Doctrines can and which Doctrines cannot be changed? Are they discussing why Catholics believe in Transubstantiation or the Trinity which defy logic and experience? In my day they were highly debated; even the Resurrection of Christ was questioned? How much of that is going on at Marquette today?
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All I am saying is why would a Christian black student apply to Marquette when there are choices like these for that student which may be a better fit.
https://www.onlinechristiancolleges.com/best/hbcu/
If I didn't know better I'd read this as you saying only Catholics should go to MU and black people should only go to HBCUs... giving the benefit of the doubt though how about because they like the campus, the prestige of the school, the athletics, the commitment to service, or simply Milwaukee is a great place.
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Of course some Doctrine can change, but are the Catholic students at Marquette discussing which Doctrines can and which Doctrines cannot be changed? Are they discussing why Catholics believe in Transubstantiation or the Trinity which defy logic and experience? In my day they were highly debated; even the Resurrection of Christ was questioned? How much of that is going on at Marquette today?
None of this helps MU stay above competitors like LUC, DPU, CU, or SLU nor help to reach the level of ND, GU, BC (let alone Fordham or Nova). These are just worthless concepts for old Catholics to obsess on. MU is a pricy school that needs to deliver an education which helps in the working world, what you miss so dearly does nothing to meet that.
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A lot of the posts below just demonstrate how much MU has lost its Catholic identity. All my professors (i.e. 1960s) in theology and philosophy except for two were Jusuits or Franciscan. Looks like the theology department has abandoned Catholic theology for the most part if not all together. I was required to take 6 theology and 4 philosophy courses for graduation.
If you want to identify “Catholic identity” by the above, you’re going to have to look long and hard to fine any institution like that. The fact is that Marquette has had to adjust to American life in 2020, and stay true to its core mission in a world that’s less churched than it was in 1969. I mean Catholic schools have lost 80% of their enrollment in 50 years, and the Church is closing parishes all over, and you expect Marquette to pretend it’s still 1969?
Catholic institutions have done a much better job navigating this environment than most Protestant based colleges and universities. Many hardly acknowledge their religious roots at all.
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None of this helps MU stay above competitors like LUC, DPU, CU, or SLU nor help to reach the level of ND, GU, BC (let alone Fordham or Nova). These are just worthless concepts for old Catholics to obsess on. MU is a pricy school that needs to deliver an education which helps in the working world, what you miss so dearly does nothing to meet that.
Spot on. I'd say even for high school decisions the question is 'what's best for the kid to succeed and get the best education', religion plays little part.
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None of this helps MU stay above competitors like LUC, DPU, CU, or SLU nor help to reach the level of ND, GU, BC (let alone Fordham or Nova). These are just worthless concepts for old Catholics to obsess on. MU is a pricy school that needs to deliver an education which helps in the working world, what you miss so dearly does nothing to meet that.
I graduated with a major in chemistry and biology and all those "worthless concepts" did not prevent me from getting the education to contribute in the working world. You can learn both. Perhaps if MU had more clergy, tuition costs would not be so high, but we don't value religious vocations any more.
There are Catholic colleges that actually still teach Catholicism and prepare student for the real world.
https://catholic-link.org/9-catholic-colleges-that-are-proud-to-be-catholic/
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I graduated with a major in chemistry and biology and all those "worthless concepts" did not prevent me from getting the education to contribute in the working world. You can learn both. Perhaps if MU had more clergy, tuition costs would not be so high, but we don't value religious vocations any more.
There are Catholic colleges that actually still teach Catholicism and prepare student for the real world.
https://catholic-link.org/9-catholic-colleges-that-are-proud-to-be-catholic/
OK but why would a Christian black student apply to Marquette when there are choices like these for that student which may be a better fit.
(Insert link to HBCUs that have nothing to do with the point you're making.)
Anyhoo ... how about this agreement Black students made with Marquette? Glad to see it!
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I graduated with a major in chemistry and biology and all those "worthless concepts" did not prevent me from getting the education to contribute in the working world. You can learn both. Perhaps if MU had more clergy, tuition costs would not be so high, but we don't value religious vocations any more.
There are Catholic colleges that actually still teach Catholicism and prepare student for the real world.
https://catholic-link.org/9-catholic-colleges-that-are-proud-to-be-catholic/
Sounds like plenty of choices then for those that are looking for that experience.
It’s not MUs, GTowns or any other universities problem to fix what you are bringing up. Look at the parents and students. They are making the choice to trade some academic cache for a more pure experience within their religion (by some definitions).
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I graduated with a major in chemistry and biology and all those "worthless concepts" did not prevent me from getting the education to contribute in the working world. You can learn both. Perhaps if MU had more clergy, tuition costs would not be so high, but we don't value religious vocations any more.
There are Catholic colleges that actually still teach Catholicism and prepare student for the real world.
https://catholic-link.org/9-catholic-colleges-that-are-proud-to-be-catholic/
Im pretty sure Marquette is proud to be Catholic.
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I graduated with a major in chemistry and biology and all those "worthless concepts" did not prevent me from getting the education to contribute in the working world. You can learn both. Perhaps if MU had more clergy, tuition costs would not be so high, but we don't value religious vocations any more.
There are Catholic colleges that actually still teach Catholicism and prepare student for the real world.
https://catholic-link.org/9-catholic-colleges-that-are-proud-to-be-catholic/
And how many credits did you need? I look to someone more involved but I'm pretty certain credit requirements have risen for majors which is why you don't see fun elective courses anymore. And even still, you waisted times taking a ridiculous amount of courses on that that could have been spent in a logic course, the first tech courses, Etc etc. I'm all in favor of keeping Phil and Theo but Theo should be World Theo not let's only drill catholic concepts into your head.
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I was thinking along the lines of Galway. As an engineering major I believe I had 16-18 credits a semester. (The 16 was only as upperclassman.)
Where was there room for something else? I had to take one Theo, one philosophy, and once more of either. I recall some English courses Freshman year, and only recall 3 electives total (which ended up being (2) polisci classes and a French 2 class. I wanted to take more language courses but it was stupidly discouraged for engineering majors in the late 80s.
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So on brand for a thread about Black students at Marquette making real and substantive changes, to arguing about Catholic doctrine and the number Theology classes a student takes.
Well done team.
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So on brand for a thread about Black students at Marquette making real and substantive changes, to arguing about Catholic doctrine and the number Theology classes a student takes.
Well done team.
Hey, at least nobody chimed in to ask: "WTF ... why no white cultural student center?"
Progress!
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I graduated with a major in chemistry and biology and all those "worthless concepts" did not prevent me from getting the education to contribute in the working world. You can learn both. Perhaps if MU had more clergy, tuition costs would not be so high, but we don't value religious vocations any more.
There are Catholic colleges that actually still teach Catholicism and prepare student for the real world.
https://catholic-link.org/9-catholic-colleges-that-are-proud-to-be-catholic/
A list including a couple foreign schools, a couple theology seminaries, and a few tiny schools the vast majority of people, Catholics and non-Catholics alike, haven’t heard of. Super compelling point!
And Ave Maria U which has more in common with Liberty U than Marquette or other larger Jesuit schools.
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A list including a couple foreign schools, a couple theology seminaries, and a few tiny schools the vast majority of people, Catholics and non-Catholics alike, haven’t heard of. Super compelling point!
And Ave Maria U which has more in common with Liberty U than Marquette or other larger Jesuit schools.
And a bunch on schools that are nothing like what Marquette was in 1969.
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I took a Protestant Theology overview course from a professor who ended up being the dean of the Calvin College Seminary. Got him to admit that anybody who could convince 10 people to follow him could start a religion.
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Timely article in the NYT - it's high school specific but the trend will impact universities as well.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/05/us/catholic-school-closings.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/05/us/catholic-school-closings.html)
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Timely article in the NYT - it's high school specific but the trend will impact universities as well.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/05/us/catholic-school-closings.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/05/us/catholic-school-closings.html)
It already has. Holy Family College, formerly Silver Lake, in Manitowoc has closed.
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(https://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/byfuzp-18umzijdtpzv-5w.png)
Religion trends in the US are all downward. The Catholic population is down a third in 50 years, and those who are left are increasingly not going to church -- roughly, when asked they say they are Catholic because their parents were .. but they aren't practicing, and they aren't indoctrinating their children, rinse, repeat.
That Marquette "has lost their Catholic identity" is a function of the marketplace.
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I took a Protestant Theology overview course from a professor who ended up being the dean of the Calvin College Seminary. Got him to admit that anybody who could convince 10 people to follow him could start a religion.
John Oliver proved the same in a hilarious series of episodes a few years back.
Religion trends in the US are all downward. The Catholic population is down a third in 50 years, and those who are left are increasingly not going to church -- roughly, when asked they say they are Catholic because their parents were .. but they aren't practicing, and they aren't indoctrinating their children, rinse, repeat.
That Marquette "has lost their Catholic identity" is a function of the marketplace.
Yep, yep, yep.
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John Oliver proved the same in a hilarious series of episodes a few years back.
Yep, yep, yep.
John Oliver accepting am offer to name the Danbury CT Sewage treatment plant after him in exchange for him donating decent $ to 3 local charities
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Oliver's church's name was Our Lady of Perpetual Exemption.
Hard to beat that.
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John Oliver accepting am offer to name the Danbury CT Sewage treatment plant after him in exchange for him donating decent $ to 3 local charities
and the offer has been accepted...with a condition. If you are near Danbury you should make the trek when this all goes down:
DANBURY, Conn. – A Connecticut city won't waste an opportunity to get a sizable donation from comedian John Oliver about a weeks-long joke pertaining to the name of a sewage plant in the area.
Danbury Mayor Mark Boughton said on WTNH-TV that he would accept Oliver's challenge to name the city's sewage plant after him following Oliver's offer to donate $55,000 to local charities.
But Boughton said there was one stipulation to renaming the facility: "You must come here to Danbury and be physically present when we cut the ribbon," he said in a Facebook video posted Sunday.