MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: DegenerateDish on July 26, 2020, 11:04:53 PM
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I don’t know how many people paid attention to this, but what happened in Illinois this morning around sports gambling is absolutely garbage.
Illinois is going to forego tens of millions of additional tax revenue dollars, tens (maybe hundreds) of millions in ad revenue for Illinois tv/radio/web companies. All to protect one company (Rivers) that has more political clout in Illinois than DK or FD.
I’m trying really really hard to not mention the politics here, but what happened today is really dirty.
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I don’t know how many people paid attention to this, but what happened in Illinois this morning around sports gambling is absolutely garbage.
Illinois is going to forego tens of millions of additional tax revenue dollars, tens (maybe hundreds) of millions in ad revenue for Illinois tv/radio/web companies. All to protect one company (Rivers) that has more political clout in Illinois than DK or FD.
I’m trying really really hard to not mention the politics here, but what happened today is really dirty.
What time did the Brinks truck leave Madigan’s house this weekend?
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Get out while you still can.
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What was the rationale from Springfield on this? Certainly seems shady as all hell, but it would at least be nice to see what the reason ostensibly would be to force people into the Rivers casinos durng an epidemic. I'm having trouble finding any info, even biased info, anywhere on this.
I think part of it is a vendetta against DK for not shutting down operations in IL when the legality of DFS was a hot issue, correct?
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Between this and MLB's coronavirus troubles, DKNG has gone from up 1% in the first half-hour of trading to down 9% as I write this. The MLB woes have had a much bigger impact on the stock price.
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What was the rationale from Springfield on this? Certainly seems shady as all hell, but it would at least be nice to see what the reason ostensibly would be to force people into the Rivers casinos durng an epidemic. I'm having trouble finding any info, even biased info, anywhere on this.
I think part of it is a vendetta against DK for not shutting down operations in IL when the legality of DFS was a hot issue, correct?
DK found, to their credit, a backdoor entrance by buying/partnering with Casino Queen. It gave them a stake in the ground in IL. I believe FD was about to do the same with Hawthorne (?). The executive order removing in person registration gave ground for FD/DK to move forward quickly with options, and they found options. Hell, they were starting to pump tons of money into advertising in Illinois. Think the media companies (TV/Radio) could use those big ad dollars right now in the middle of a pandemic? Quite honestly, that may have saved a few jobs.
Announcing on a Sunday that mobile registration was ending, and giving little notice, reeks of clout. This doesn't even begin to describe how terrible the Rivers online/mobile experience has been. It looks like a website from 1996, trying to use it on mobile is next to impossible with their Geolocator. Now as of today, you can no longer wager on Golf, NASCAR, Soccer. It's a total $hitshow.
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Corruption in the gambling industry? That's a new concept. :-[
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Between this and MLB's coronavirus troubles, DKNG has gone from up 1% in the first half-hour of trading to down 9% as I write this. The MLB woes have had a much bigger impact on the stock price.
Yea this is all MLB relates and associated worries about football as a result. IL alone wouldn’t have shook it too much
Announcing on a Sunday that mobile registration was ending, and giving little notice, reeks of clout. This doesn't even begin to describe how terrible the Rivers online/mobile experience has been. It looks like a website from 1996, trying to use it on mobile is next to impossible with their Geolocator. Now as of today, you can no longer wager on Golf, NASCAR, Soccer. It's a total $hitshow.
1000%. It’s like every classic bid rigging/clout based corruption play. A drastically inferior and less desirable product or service somehow loses to something that’s only winning feature is that it’s got politicians in it’s pocket. Chicago gonna Chicago (and that’s coming from an ardent Chicago hype man)
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DK found, to their credit, a backdoor entrance by buying/partnering with Casino Queen. It gave them a stake in the ground in IL. I believe FD was about to do the same with Hawthorne (?). The executive order removing in person registration gave ground for FD/DK to move forward quickly with options, and they found options. Hell, they were starting to pump tons of money into advertising in Illinois. Think the media companies (TV/Radio) could use those big ad dollars right now in the middle of a pandemic? Quite honestly, that may have saved a few jobs.
Announcing on a Sunday that mobile registration was ending, and giving little notice, reeks of clout. This doesn't even begin to describe how terrible the Rivers online/mobile experience has been. It looks like a website from 1996, trying to use it on mobile is next to impossible with their Geolocator. Now as of today, you can no longer wager on Golf, NASCAR, Soccer. It's a total $hitshow.
You're right about a lot here, but there's a little more to it.
Yes, it's about protecting Rush Street (i.e. Rivers), but also the other state casinos that are opening sports books (i.e. Hollywood in Aurora and Joliet, Grand Victoria in Elgin, etc.). Those outfits - which pay substantial fees and taxes to the state - won't stand a chance if DK and FD get established online ahead of them. Essentially, the state is giving great preference to state-based operations. This was always the state's intent, and Sunday's action simply closes a loophole DK and FD were about to exploit.
It does suck for the gambler, but I can't get too worked up because this has been the plan for more than a year.
As for the Rivers app and site, they do indeed suck. But just going on it now, it seems I can place bets on futbol.
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You're right about a lot here, but there's a little more to it.
Yes, it's about protecting Rush Street (i.e. Rivers), but also the other state casinos that are opening sports books (i.e. Hollywood in Aurora and Joliet, Grand Victoria in Elgin, etc.). Those outfits - which pay substantial fees and taxes to the state - won't stand a chance if DK and FD get established online ahead of them. Essentially, the state is giving great preference to state-based operations. This was always the state's intent, and Sunday's action simply closes a loophole DK and FD were about to exploit.
It does suck for the gambler, but I can't get too worked up because this has been the plan for more than a year.
As for the Rivers app and site, they do indeed suck. But just going on it now, it seems I can place bets on futbol.
What is the app? And can Illinois residents use it legally?
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What is the app? And can Illinois residents use it legally?
Its the BetRivers app, and so far it doesn't work. You can download it and it just provides a link that takes you to their crappy site to bet online there. The plan is definitely for Illinois residents to be able to use it eventually though.
IL folks - do you happen to know if us Wisconsinites can register an account and then after the bugs are worked out, use the app to bet online so long as we're standing in Illinois? I'm back and forth enough that I'd definitely do that. Or do you need to actually be an Illinois resident (if and when the app ever works)? I was putting off registering until I'm actually standing in Illinois because I didn't want to make it hard on myself if I got rejected for trying to register from Wisconsin.
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Its the BetRivers app, and so far it doesn't work. You can download it and it just provides a link that takes you to their crappy site to bet online there. The plan is definitely for Illinois residents to be able to use it eventually though.
IL folks - do you happen to know if us Wisconsinites can register an account and then after the bugs are worked out, use the app to bet online so long as we're standing in Illinois? I'm back and forth enough that I'd definitely do that. Or do you need to actually be an Illinois resident (if and when the app ever works)? I was putting off registering until I'm actually standing in Illinois because I didn't want to make it hard on myself if I got rejected for trying to register from Wisconsin.
The app works for Android devices. It's how I've made my bets. It sucks, but it works.
There isn't an Apple app yet.
I had to show proof of Illinois residency to register, so I think you cheeseheads may be out of luck.
Edit: Come to think of it, that may be just for age verification, not residency.
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Its the BetRivers app, and so far it doesn't work. You can download it and it just provides a link that takes you to their crappy site to bet online there. The plan is definitely for Illinois residents to be able to use it eventually though.
IL folks - do you happen to know if us Wisconsinites can register an account and then after the bugs are worked out, use the app to bet online so long as we're standing in Illinois? I'm back and forth enough that I'd definitely do that. Or do you need to actually be an Illinois resident (if and when the app ever works)? I was putting off registering until I'm actually standing in Illinois because I didn't want to make it hard on myself if I got rejected for trying to register from Wisconsin.
I believe you only have to physically be in the state of IL. When I was in NJ earlier this year, I had no issue downloading the DK sportsbook app and placing a wager while in NJ as an IL resident. Obviously when I left NJ, I couldn't wager, but my wagers did cash out into my DK account.
I know a bunch of IL people that were crossing the border to wager on DK into IN, so I don't think it would matter what state you're a resident in, as long as you're physically in IL when the wager is placed. I may be wrong, but that's my interpretation.
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Corruption in the gambling industry? That's a new concept. :-[
Beat me to it.
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Corruption in the gambling industry? That's a new concept. :-[
Corruption in Illinois? Who would have thought of that?
I'm about ready to start a Madigan Indictment Watch. How many days until Mike Madigan is indicted?
Could JB be the fifth Illinois governor to live in public housing after his term is over? Stay tuned for "As the Toilet Turns."
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Corruption in Illinois? Who would have thought of that?
I'm about ready to start a Madigan Indictment Watch. How many days until Mike Madigan is indicted?
Could JB be the fifth Illinois governor to live in public housing after his term is over? Stay tuned for "As the Toilet Turns."
JB is a billionaire. Unlike most of his predecessors - career politicians who craved the lifestyles of their donors - he has no financial need to participate in graft.
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JB is a billionaire. Unlike most of his predecessors - career politicians who craved the lifestyles of their donors - he has no financial need to participate in graft.
True, but the Cook County Assessor and Mr. JB are under federal criminal investigation over the toilet incident that gave him an estimated $300,000 tax benefit.
Where that goes is anybody’s guess. But. Brother Pakuni, why would a man with the net worth of the Governor want to go through the hell of the toilet removal, get a tax break and then give it back. Given his reported net worth, that’s the equivalent of one of us Scoopers being immoral or unethical for, say, $0.50.
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True, but the Cook County Assessor and Mr. JB are under federal criminal investigation over the toilet incident that gave him an estimated $300,000 tax benefit.
Where that goes is anybody’s guess. But. Brother Pakuni, why would a man with the net worth of the Governor want to go through the hell of the toilet removal, get a tax break and then give it back. Given his reported net worth, that’s the equivalent of one of us Scoopers being immoral or unethical for, say, $0.50.
The toilet thing occurred before he was governor, was by all accounts directed not by him but by his wife, and the so-called "investigation" has gone nowhere in nearly two years time.
If that's what you're hanging your hopes on for a JB indictment, I'm afraid you're going to be sorely disappointed.
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" and the so-called "investigation" has gone nowhere in nearly two years time."
well if that ain't a big F' ing surprise
those things cost a lot of "toilets" ya know
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The toilet thing occurred before he was governor, was by all accounts directed not by him but by his wife, and the so-called "investigation" has gone nowhere in nearly two years time.
If that's what you're hanging your hopes on for a JB indictment, I'm afraid you're going to be sorely disappointed.
Brother Pakuni, the only thing that disappoints me about Illinois politics is that the more things change, the more they stay the same.
I don%u2019t expect the Governor to be indicted. The federal government knows better than to wage war against the Pritzker billions. It will lose. Plus, with the real possibility of a regime change in Washington come November, there is very little chance any new administration will run with this investigation.
Call me cynical but if Speaker Madigan is indicted, someone will take his place at the top of the food chain. The corruption will go on. If the Republicans ever manage to gain control of the legislature again, the corruption will go on. The problem is that corruption is the only thing we know in Illinois.
As a final thought, back in the 1970s, I lived in Tennessee before attending Marquette. Our state elected Honest Ray Blanton governor. Honest Ray was a political entrepreneur, buying and selling the state motor pool and selling liquor licenses, among other vices. The good people of the State of Tennessee put up with it because it made their lives easier. But, when Honest Ray began selling prison pardons, he ended up in prison himself. The good people of Tennessee had had enough.
His successor, Governor Lamar Alexander, reformed state government and cleaned up much of the Honest Ray mess. He was able to do so because Tennessees corruption was top down. Illinois is different because political corruption is a bottom-up exercise and virtually everyone gets something. It is why our combined public pension deficit is more than $200 billion and why Illinois is a fiscal disaster area.
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There are degrees of dirty. Pritzker isn't a saint. The toilet thing was wrong, but it happened before he was in office. I certainly did not vote for him in the Democratic Primary.
But, compared to Blago and Ryan, who actively used their office for personal gain, Pritzker is a boy scout (not saying much, I know). Pritzker has done nothing that would threaten his job, at least in Illinois. And I think he is doing a decent job on COVID.
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dgies ... we've strayed way, way past the topic and Coleman sums up my thoughts pretty well, so I'll leave it at that.
Also, the Rivers sportsbook still sucks.
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Illinois Gaming Board meets this morning, should be interesting to say the least.
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Illinois Gaming Board meets this morning, should be interesting to say the least.
Trainwreck City.
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With Arlington closing and being put up for sale, one of the Chicago sports owners (or a future perspective owner) should buy that land. I can't think of a better spot for a future stadium than Arlington. Plenty of land, Metra line literally at the entrance, plenty of highway access.
A perspective Bears owner should buy that land and squat on it asap.
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With Arlington closing and being put up for sale, one of the Chicago sports owners (or a future perspective owner) should buy that land. I can't think of a better spot for a future stadium than Arlington. Plenty of land, Metra line literally at the entrance, plenty of highway access.
A perspective Bears owner should buy that land and squat on it asap.
it is closing, like for good? or just for sale?
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With Arlington closing and being put up for sale, one of the Chicago sports owners (or a future perspective owner) should buy that land. I can't think of a better spot for a future stadium than Arlington. Plenty of land, Metra line literally at the entrance, plenty of highway access.
A perspective Bears owner should buy that land and squat on it asap.
I don't see the village going along with that, unless the Bears can convince them it's a year-round facility. Even then, it would be a challenge. That property is arguably more valuable as a mixed-use development - especially in terms of generating local tax revenue - similar to what's being done with the former Motorola campus in Schaumburg and the AT&T campus in Hoffman Estates.
On top of that, given the state's financial condition, all the money it poured into the Soldier Field renovation and the unpopularity of moving the team to the suburbs among the Chicago legislators, the Bears would have a hard time getting public funding, at least anytime soon. Are they willing to invest a couple billion on their own? Especially when they have sweetheart deal at Soldier?
The Bears actually had a good opportunity to buy the property cheap in the 90s, but chose to remain at Soldier Field. It makes a ton of sense for a lot of reasons, but I'm not sure the political backing would be there anytime in the next decade or so. And while the village can't stop the Bears from buying the land and squatting on it for 15 years, that wouldn't be very helpful when the team comes looking for the zoning, permits and public funding it would need to do something with the site.
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I don't see the village going along with that, unless the Bears can convince them it's a year-round facility. Even then, it would be a challenge. That property is arguably more valuable as a mixed-use development - especially in terms of generating local tax revenue - similar to what's being done with the former Motorola campus in Schaumburg and the AT&T campus in Hoffman Estates.
On top of that, given the state's financial condition, all the money it poured into the Soldier Field renovation and the unpopularity of moving the team to the suburbs among the Chicago legislators, the Bears would have a hard time getting public funding, at least anytime soon. Are they willing to invest a couple billion on their own? Especially when they have sweetheart deal at Soldier?
The Bears actually had a good opportunity to buy the property cheap in the 90s, but chose to remain at Soldier Field. It makes a ton of sense for a lot of reasons, but I'm not sure the political backing would be there anytime in the next decade or so. And while the village can't stop the Bears from buying the land and squatting on it for 15 years, that wouldn't be very helpful when the team comes looking for the zoning, permits and public funding it would need to do something with the site.
I wouldn't call the Bears deal at Soldier a sweetheart deal, it was really a game of chicken between the Bears and the city, and handled terribly by both sides. The Park District still owns Soldier Field, the Bears pay around $6 million a year in rent (overall I think the McCaskeys had to pay $250 mil as their portion of the stadium construction costs). Daley included a clause where they couldn't sell the naming rights, the Bears don't get a dime from any non Bears events at the stadium, and with one of the smallest seating capacities, they aren't maximizing premium seating revenues at Soldier.
I don't disagree with you on the mixed-use development idea. I do think, in my hypothetical, that a prospective new owner would fund the stadium construction themselves, and work with Arlington Heights on a sweetheart tax deal on the backend. When you look at Patriot Place, and what the Rams are building to go along with the stadium, it would make sense to own/build the stadium and keep the revenues that would come with a future Super Bowl/Final Four/Wrestlemania/Concerts. All those events would flock to a domed stadium in Arlington Heights.
To be clear, I don't think my idea will happen at all. My thought process is from a pure logistical set up, that specific spot would be perfect for a new stadium.
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One other idea I'll float...
I've long been an advocate for a second NFL team in the Chicago market. It'd have to be an AFC team, it would have to take an owner with really deep pockets, who currently has an unfavorable stadium situation and market. Ideally it would be someone with connections here in the state.
The Chicago Jaguars (they would probably re-brand) make a lot of sense.
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One other idea I'll float...
I've long been an advocate for a second NFL team in the Chicago market. It'd have to be an AFC team, it would have to take an owner with really deep pockets, who currently has an unfavorable stadium situation and market. Ideally it would be someone with connections here in the state.
The Chicago Jaguars (they would probably re-brand) make a lot of sense.
Khan is such an interesting piece here. Cause honestly, he’s also the PERFECT person to have the first international team, in London, given his ownership of Fulham. There are significant hurdles there, obviously, but just furthering the point that Khan is a dynamic piece beyond just the Jags being a mess in Jax (he also owns significant developments in Toronto)
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One other idea I'll float...
I've long been an advocate for a second NFL team in the Chicago market. It'd have to be an AFC team, it would have to take an owner with really deep pockets, who currently has an unfavorable stadium situation and market. Ideally it would be someone with connections here in the state.
The Chicago Jaguars (they would probably re-brand) make a lot of sense.
I seriously doubt this market can support 2 NFL teams.
Re: Arlington Heights, the trend, at least until COVID hit, was for teams to move back into cities, not away from them (see Chicago Fire). COVID may change this. COVID may change a lot of things. But the time for moving teams to the burbs was 40 years ago.
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With Arlington closing and being put up for sale, one of the Chicago sports owners (or a future perspective owner) should buy that land. I can't think of a better spot for a future stadium than Arlington. Plenty of land, Metra line literally at the entrance, plenty of highway access.
A perspective Bears owner should buy that land and squat on it asap.
Richard J. Daley: So you want to move the Chicago Bears to Arlington Heights?
George Halas Sr: That's correct Mr. Mayor. We need a stadium. Wrigley Field isn't working any more.
Mayor Daley: But Arlington Heights?
Halas: Yes, Mr. Mayor, Arlington Heights!
Mayor Daley: Then you damn well better call yourselves the Arlington Heights Bears!!!!
Mayor R2D2: So, you are thinking about moving the Chicago Bears to Northwest Indiana?
Mike McCaskey: That's correct Mr. Mayor. They're offering quite a stadium deal in Buffington Harbor
R2D2: I'm really sorry to hear that, Mr. McCaskey. The Chicago Bears are a really important part of our city.
McCaskey: I know, but I need a stadium and I really don't want to pay for it.
R2D2: Well, we're really sorry. I can only say I wish you luck in Indiana. I'm responsible to the people of the City of Chicago and we're going
to go out and declare the Chicago franchise of the NFL open, since you are now in Indiana, and seek solicitations for NFL franchises
that would like to take advantage of the nation's third largest market. If San Francisco and the Baltimore-Washington markets can
support two teams, so can we!
McCaskey: Let's not be so hasty! Perhaps we can work something out!
They're not going anywhere! They've tried twice now.
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Richard J. Daley: So you want to move the Chicago Bears to Arlington Heights?
George Halas Sr: That's correct Mr. Mayor. We need a stadium. Wrigley Field isn't working any more.
Mayor Daley: But Arlington Heights?
Halas: Yes, Mr. Mayor, Arlington Heights!
Mayor Daley: Then you damn well better call yourselves the Arlington Heights Bears!!!!
Mayor R2D2: So, you are thinking about moving the Chicago Bears to Northwest Indiana?
Mike McCaskey: That's correct Mr. Mayor. They're offering quite a stadium deal in Buffington Harbor
R2D2: I'm really sorry to hear that, Mr. McCaskey. The Chicago Bears are a really important part of our city.
McCaskey: I know, but I need a stadium and I really don't want to pay for it.
R2D2: Well, we're really sorry. I can only say I wish you luck in Indiana. I'm responsible to the people of the City of Chicago and we're going
to go out and declare the Chicago franchise of the NFL open, since you are now in Indiana, and seek solicitations for NFL franchises
that would like to take advantage of the nation's third largest market. If San Francisco and the Baltimore-Washington markets can
support two teams, so can we!
McCaskey: Let's not be so hasty! Perhaps we can work something out!
They're not going anywhere! They've tried twice now.
The mayor doesn't have trademark rights over the Chicago name and can't compel the NFL to declare the Chicago market open.
I think Dish has a great idea. If anything it gives them leverage. It could be 15-20 years before they need it. The fact is that most fans would support it because it would be 100% easier to get to, tailgate, etc.
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The mayor doesn't have trademark rights over the Chicago name and can't compel the NFL to declare the Chicago market open.
I think Dish has a great idea. If anything it gives them leverage. It could be 15-20 years before they need it. The fact is that most fans would support it because it would be 100% easier to get to, tailgate, etc.
Fluff, the political threats from the first Mayor Daley were strong enough to get the Bears into Soldier Field in 1970. At the time, they had proposed building a stadium next to the racetrack.
R2D2 derailed the Indiana option almost on the spot. McCaskey was white as a ghost. It was a time when NFL franchises were threatening to move like meteors across the sky. R2D2 knew someone like Al Davis would kill for access to this market.
You might be able to mess with the Rams this way. But, I just don't think the NFL would be open to another team poaching Bear fans. And, business does not work the way you and Dish propose. No company with shareholders or owners expecting a return is going to sit on very valuable vacant land for a decade or more in hopes of getting an NFL franchise in the Northwest Suburbs. Plus, more than a few people have died and met their eternal reward waiting for the McCaskeys to sell. Not gonna happen.
As a final thought, have you been to White Sox Park in Itasca lately? Maybe you're too young to remember that one but the politicians in Illinois derailed that one too.
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Fluff, the political threats from the first Mayor Daley were strong enough to get the Bears into Soldier Field in 1970. At the time, they had proposed building a stadium next to the racetrack.
R2D2 derailed the Indiana option almost on the spot. McCaskey was white as a ghost. It was a time when NFL franchises were threatening to move like meteors across the sky. R2D2 knew someone like Al Davis would kill for access to this market.
You might be able to mess with the Rams this way. But, I just don't think the NFL would be open to another team poaching Bear fans. And, business does not work the way you and Dish propose. No company with shareholders or owners expecting a return is going to sit on very valuable vacant land for a decade or more in hopes of getting an NFL franchise in the Northwest Suburbs. Plus, more than a few people have died and met their eternal reward waiting for the McCaskeys to sell. Not gonna happen.
As a final thought, have you been to White Sox Park in Itasca lately? Maybe you're too young to remember that one but the politicians in Illinois derailed that one too.
This aint the 1970s. The mayor of Chicago isn't as powerful, and the NFL certainly is moreso. The NFL isn't going to stick a new team in Chicago, or allow one to relocate there, and will do whatever it can to get a better stadium deal for one of its trademark franchises. I mean, do you think Bears fans would change their alligiance because the team moves 25 miles west to a more convenient location?
The McCaskeys sell when Virginia dies and the family doesn't have to hold onto a billion dollar asset for sentimental reasons. Then you will see a new owner leverage the city big time when they want a new stadium. It's happened time and time again.
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Timing is also interesting here. With Covid going on, if there's no fans in the stadium, it will actually put a hurt on the McCaskey family bottom line. They are not independently wealthy people at all, the Bears are their source of income. Virginia is going to be 98 in about 5 months. If the 2020 and 2021 season see no fans or limited fans, I would watch the Bears ownership situation very closely.
Don't get me wrong, they won't be in the red, they'll be plenty profitable, but that's going to still be a substantial hit for the family.
I keep waiting for someone to pipe in with "there already is a second NFL team in Chicago, they wear green and gold". Which there is more than validity to, the Packers success with the Bears mostly mediocrity over the last two decades has seen some otherwise young potential Bear fans grow up to become Packer fans. I'm not saying it's a majority, but it's for sure happened.
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Timing is also interesting here. With Covid going on, if there's no fans in the stadium, it will actually put a hurt on the McCaskey family bottom line. They are not independently wealthy people at all, the Bears are their source of income. Virginia is going to be 98 in about 5 months. If the 2020 and 2021 season see no fans or limited fans, I would watch the Bears ownership situation very closely.
Don't get me wrong, they won't be in the red, they'll be plenty profitable, but that's going to still be a substantial hit for the family.
Possibly. My general understanding is there are a boatload of shirt-tail relatives in the Halas/McCaskey clan who are living off cash flow dividended to them from the Chicago Bears. If there are no fans this year and, God forbid, next year, those dividends will decrease and the family will, well, look for other ways to satisfy their cash flow needs -- aka, sell and reinvest.
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I wouldn't call the Bears deal at Soldier a sweetheart deal, it was really a game of chicken between the Bears and the city, and handled terribly by both sides. The Park District still owns Soldier Field, the Bears pay around $6 million a year in rent (overall I think the McCaskeys had to pay $250 mil as their portion of the stadium construction costs).
Not to be argumentative, but according to Forbes, the Bears took in $166 million in stadium revenues last year, good for 12th best in the NFL.
And they do this without paying anything beyond their $6 million lease. No maintenance, no capital expenses, no employees, no taxes, etc. That seems pretty sweet to me.
As for a second team in Chicago, I can't imagine many circumstances in which three-fourths of league owners would want to plug a second team in an existing market.
First, it's not appealing to the TV networks. They'd rather be in more markets, not fewer.
Second, it sets a precedent that says "If we can move a second team into the Bears' market, then we can send a second team into your market." No owner wants a second team in his market.
Third, demographics don't support it. I personally love Chicago, but it's not a growth market these days.
As for the McCaskeys (Cheeks humblebrag coming), I actually know a few of them and the Bears form their identity. I very well may be wrong here - it's not like I'm in the inner circle by any stretch - but I can't imagine them selling anytime soon. At least not the current generation of owners or the generation after that.
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Not to be argumentative, but according to Forbes, the Bears took in $166 million in stadium revenues last year, good for 12th best in the NFL.
And they do this without paying anything beyond their $6 million lease. No maintenance, no capital expenses, no employees, no taxes, etc. That seems pretty sweet to me.
As for a second team in Chicago, I can't imagine many circumstances in which three-fourths of league owners would want to plug a second team in an existing market.
First, it's not appealing to the TV networks. They'd rather be in more markets, not fewer.
Second, it sets a precedent that says "If we can move a second team into the Bears' market, then we can send a second team into your market." No owner wants a second team in his market.
Third, demographics don't support it. I personally love Chicago, but it's not a growth market these days.
As for the McCaskeys (Cheeks humblebrag coming), I actually know a few of them and the Bears form their identity. I very well may be wrong here - it's not like I'm in the inner circle by any stretch - but I can't imagine them selling anytime soon. At least not the current generation of owners or the generation after that.
I don't think you're being argumentative, and I hope my response doesn't come across that way either.
The flip side of that is they earn $0 on parking, $0 on concessions, $0 on concerts/soccer games/etc. So yeah, their rent is cheap, they don't have to do any maintenance work themselves. But they do have to jump through hoops to get anything done in the stadium (more ad space, increase premium seating).
To your point about adding a second team, Chicago is still the third largest media market. If the NFL continues with an AFC/NFC rights deals with networks (caveat: I don't believe they will), adding an AFC team in Chicago would enhance the AFC rights. The NFL would hypothetically schedule the Bears/AFC team they way they do the Giants/Jets. If you ever look closely at an NFL schedule, the Giants and Jets rarely play in the same time window any week (I believe it's only twice this year when they do).
Do I honestly think it would happen to re-locate a team here? No, probably not. I do think though it's an interesting conversation. I think most people just think "Bears town" and aren't open to the idea (which I think is too old school of a mentality).
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Khan is such an interesting piece here. Cause honestly, he’s also the PERFECT person to have the first international team, in London, given his ownership of Fulham. There are significant hurdles there, obviously, but just furthering the point that Khan is a dynamic piece beyond just the Jags being a mess in Jax (he also owns significant developments in Toronto)
Can't play NFL games at Craven Cottage though. If only there was an NFL ready stadium in north London...
(Bold!) Prediction: Spurs will be sold within the next few years to an American sports conglomerate and London will have a team at WHL.
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Can't play NFL games at Craven Cottage though. If only there was an NFL ready stadium in north London...
(Bold!) Prediction: Spurs will be sold within the next few years to an American sports conglomerate and London will have a team at WHL.
I think it’s more likely Levy and ENIC buy-in/partner with an NFL ownership group than sell. Levy is a Spurs fan since he was a kid and his whole business revolves around Spurs. They sold off their other football holdings and a lot of the other holdings as well. With the new stadium, they are in it for the long haul. But I do agree there very likely will be a team at Hotspur Stadium in the next decade. They will figure out the travel and timing for their schedule and it’s on.
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I think it’s more likely Levy and ENIC buy-in/partner with an NFL ownership group than sell. Levy is a Spurs fan since he was a kid and his whole business revolves around Spurs. They sold off their other football holdings and a lot of the other holdings as well. With the new stadium, they are in it for the long haul. But I do agree there very likely will be a team at Hotspur Stadium in the next decade. They will figure out the travel and timing for their schedule and it’s on.
Joe Lewis is 83. Levy has a stake but no where close to a majority. When Lewis goes, it's sale time.
Hell, keep levy on as chairman.
I'd love to see a mark Cuban type buy them.
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I keep waiting for someone to pipe in with "there already is a second NFL team in Chicago, they wear green and gold". Which there is more than validity to, the Packers success with the Bears mostly mediocrity over the last two decades has seen some otherwise young potential Bear fans grow up to become Packer fans. I'm not saying it's a majority, but it's for sure happened.
Definitely. Especially in the northern burbs. It is a pretty football saturated market between the Bears and Packers
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To your point about adding a second team, Chicago is still the third largest media market. If the NFL continues with an AFC/NFC rights deals with networks (caveat: I don't believe they will), adding an AFC team in Chicago would enhance the AFC rights. The NFL would hypothetically schedule the Bears/AFC team they way they do the Giants/Jets. If you ever look closely at an NFL schedule, the Giants and Jets rarely play in the same time window any week (I believe it's only twice this year when they do).
Per my last post, most networks already do this with the Packers and Bears, except when they are playing eachother. Adding another team to Chicago is basically having 3 teams in one media market. It is too much.
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To be fair to Chicago, the Cubs are basically a 2nd baseball team in Wisconsin. It definitely goes both ways, depending on the sport.
I know A LOT of Cubs-Packers fans on both sides of the border.
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Good news! You can now legally bet on DK mobile in Illinois!
***If you live in Chicago, you have to drive nine hours round trip to East St. Louis to register at Casino Queen in person***
Someone could make a heck of a side business (on the down low) driving down to Casino Queen, getting a ton of people to commit (maybe $10 each) to having someone register for them. If I could get 100 people, I'd do it myself.
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Good news! You can now legally bet on DK mobile in Illinois!
***If you live in Chicago, you have to drive nine hours round trip to East St. Louis to register at Casino Queen in person***
Someone could make a heck of a side business (on the down low) driving down to Casino Queen, getting a ton of people to commit (maybe $10 each) to having someone register for them. If I could get 100 people, I'd do it myself.
Just registered from the northern burbs, and it is saying I also have to go down to Casino Queen in ESL. What a joke
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Good news! You can now legally bet on DK mobile in Illinois!
***If you live in Chicago, you have to drive nine hours round trip to East St. Louis to register at Casino Queen in person***
Someone could make a heck of a side business (on the down low) driving down to Casino Queen, getting a ton of people to commit (maybe $10 each) to having someone register for them. If I could get 100 people, I'd do it myself.
Just registered from the northern burbs, and it is saying I also have to go down to Casino Queen in ESL. What a joke
I’ll pick you guys up around 8:45?
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I’ll pick you guys up around 8:45?
I call shotgun.
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That actually would be a fun roadtrip. Drive down, gamble a bit, register, and drive home
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That actually would be a fun roadtrip. Drive down, gamble a bit, register, and drive home
I take it that you have never been to East St. Louis
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Draftkings registration is open for at least a couple weeks. I'm in and it's amazing.
If you want to sign up, I have promo codes.
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I take it that you have never been to East St. Louis
Haha. All my family is in St Louis. I have certainly driven through it. Not nice, you're right.
But this casino is right on the waterfront. Easy to avoid the bad parts of town.
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Haha. All my family is in St Louis. I have certainly driven through it. Not nice, you're right.
But this casino is right on the waterfront. Easy to avoid the bad parts of town.
My dad grew up there. His childhood home (that my grandfather built himself) is the only one that is still standing on its block.
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If you haven't signed up for an online Sportsbook in Illinois, and you live in (or close to the state), you're right now missing out on free money. Between Rivers (still crap), DraftKings, and FanDuel, the amount of promotions are ridiculous right now. You never need to make a serious wager, and can come out with free money.
As an example, last night DraftKings had a White Sox boost bet where the Sox were +45 (max bet $23). DK right now has the Chiefs +101 for their season opener against the Texans (max bet $50). FanDuel had last week the Clippers +99 (max bet $50), and tomorrow the Lakers +62 (max bet $50). Even if you never place a wager with sweat, this is free money as the online books battle early on to grab Illinois consumers.
On top of it, the referral bonuses are great too. If anyone wants a referral code, send me a DM. On DraftKings as an example, if you get a referral code and deposit $100, you never need to touch your $100, you can withdraw it, and just bet the $100 referral bonus. Heck, you can use the $100 referral bonus to just bet on the ridiculous promo lines I mentioned in the paragraph above.
It won't be these good forever, but as PointsBet comes on and eventually BarStool, take advantage of these promos while you can.
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If you haven't signed up for an online Sportsbook in Illinois, and you live in (or close to the state), you're right now missing out on free money. Between Rivers (still crap), DraftKings, and FanDuel, the amount of promotions are ridiculous right now. You never need to make a serious wager, and can come out with free money.
As an example, last night DraftKings had a White Sox boost bet where the Sox were +45 (max bet $23). DK right now has the Chiefs +101 for their season opener against the Texans (max bet $50). FanDuel had last week the Clippers +99 (max bet $50), and tomorrow the Lakers +62 (max bet $50). Even if you never place a wager with sweat, this is free money as the online books battle early on to grab Illinois consumers.
On top of it, the referral bonuses are great too. If anyone wants a referral code, send me a DM. On DraftKings as an example, if you get a referral code and deposit $100, you never need to touch your $100, you can withdraw it, and just bet the $100 referral bonus. Heck, you can use the $100 referral bonus to just bet on the ridiculous promo lines I mentioned in the paragraph above.
It won't be these good forever, but as PointsBet comes on and eventually BarStool, take advantage of these promos while you can.
They have those ridiculous run lines/spreads as standard -110 bets?
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They have those ridiculous run lines/spreads as standard -110 bets?
They do, all of them have been at -110. Obviously can’t parlay the ridiculous lines, but it’s as easy a $45 profit one will ever make.
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I think there was an old betting thread, but I'm going to throw my picks up today, and let's see how this goes. Play/fade, let's make some $$$!
All lines from Rivers.
Favorite parlay of the day: Cavan Biggio O 0.5 hits -182 with Kyle Lewis O 0.5 hits -167 (Parlay pays +148)
Biggio hits leadoff (more potential AB's) and has hits in his last 3 games. He's also lifetime hitting .800 (4 for 5) against Red Sox starter Ryan Weber. Lewis was 0-4 last night and doesn't have a hit in his last two games, so I'm betting he's due. He'll bat third tonight, and in his one game against Kyle Gibson, he's 3-3 with a HR.
Straight up like very much: Cards/Cubs Game 1 under 6.5 (line is at 6, I'll add the hook at -130). Wind blowing in, two ground ball pitchers, plus only 7 innings
Giants -1.5 +150, fade MadBum every time
Mariners -1.5 +143, I don't think Kyle Gibson is any good and Sheefield pitched decently at home against the Rangers two weeks ago
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Pretty good night if you followed my picks. The Giants -1.5 was a rough one, they were up 4-2 in the 8th with 2 outs, couple of walks and hits later, it went 4-3. Bottom 8th, Giants with runners on first and second and one out, and a diving catch on a line shot to left.
Biggio ended up sitting, so his leg of the parlay was voided. He did pinch hit and walk (he had to start for the parlay to be in play). Every Blue Jay except Jansen got at least one hit, so I would have felt confident Biggio would have too.
3-1 on the night. There will be plenty of White Sox action tomorrow as Matt Harvey takes the bump (worst SP in baseball vs one of the best offenses in baseball).
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JT’s putter has been bad the first two days. Looking at him to be average with it and win the Tour Championship.
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Today's MLB slate is very enticing. Lot of ace's on the bump, let's win some $!
Lines from FanDuel.
Brewers/Indians F5 U 4.5 -176
The F5 under is 8-0 in Bieber starts. FanDuel was the only book that had it at 4.5, I'd probably parlay it with one of these other picks.
White Sox F5 -1.5 run line +114
Tough to find value with the Sox offense going up against Harvey (Sox full game run line -1.5 is -144 as an example). Harvey hasn't gotten out of the third inning in any of his starts, and that was against the Reds/Indians/Cardinals, not exactly the three best offenses in MLB. I expect the Sox to score early and often, and if Harvey somehow gets through a clean first run of the lineup, I'll back the Sox to tee off the second time through.
Mariners F5 -0.5 run line +102
This one is pretty straight forward, Dunn has owned the Rangers this year and Lyles has gotten torched by the Mariners.
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2-1 on the day, Sox went 1-7 with runners in scoring position through the first 5, missed it by a run. Good weekend though, 5-2, with both losses being by a run each.
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2-1 on the day, Sox went 1-7 with runners in scoring position through the first 5, missed it by a run. Good weekend though, 5-2, with both losses being by a run each.
New screen name checks out. ;D
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New screen name checks out. ;D
I figured I might as well own it. I love the data analysis more than anything and trying to attack where I see the data shows an edge. I think most people bet with their heart and not their heads. Baseball in particular is great because there’s so much data.
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Cam Smith, Cam Champ, Niemann, Hughes, Hatton, Morikawa and Xander for round 4 matchups.
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Cam Smith, Cam Champ, Niemann, Hughes, Hatton, Morikawa and Xander for round 4 matchups.
I’m in on Cam Champ.
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Freddie Freeman to HR & Braves to win +430 on Rivers
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JT’s putter has been bad the first two days. Looking at him to be average with it and win the Tour Championship.
Solid start to his Sunday 👀
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Cam Smith, Cam Champ, Niemann, Hughes, Hatton, Morikawa and Xander for round 4 matchups.
Nice call on Champ. Little sweat on 18, but he came through.
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Freddie Freeman to HR & Braves to win +430 on Rivers
Couldn't get this on DK, can't even parlay the results.
Taking Raptors +1.5.
Parlayed Cubs ML and Rays ML.
Golf bets looking to be slightly better than 50%, have a BIG pre-tournament bet on JT.
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Cam Smith, Cam Champ, Niemann, Hughes, Hatton, Morikawa and Xander for round 4 matchups.
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Parlay, Blue Jays F5 moneyline w/DBacks & Giants F5 U4.5 (FanDuel) +199.
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Parlay, Blue Jays F5 moneyline w/DBacks & Giants F5 U4.5 (FanDuel) +199.
Jays go 2-14 with RISP and leave 8 on base thru 5. That’s hard to do.
Edit: and then they score 10 runs in the 6th, of course.
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Lindor Over 0.5 hits parlay with Grandal Over 0.5 hits +122 on DK
Lindor lifetime against Junis is hitting .500, with 34 AB's. He's also hitting .400 in his last 7 games. Grandal is hitting .556 in 9 lifetime AB's vs Musgrove. Grandal too is swinging a hot bat recently, hitting .308 in his last 7 games.
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Lindor Over 0.5 hits parlay with Grandal Over 0.5 hits +122 on DK
Lindor lifetime against Junis is hitting .500, with 34 AB's. He's also hitting .400 in his last 7 games. Grandal is hitting .556 in 9 lifetime AB's vs Musgrove. Grandal too is swinging a hot bat recently, hitting .308 in his last 7 games.
I tailed to here, thanks. Nice call.
Not a great day yesterday.
Heat and JFB to score 20+, loss.
Stars to cover, loss.
Padres to cover, win.
Took the Sox ML when it was tied as I was watching live, loss.
Lakers to cover, win.
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Draft Kings is giving away money for tomorrow's NFL opener.
Offering a moneyline of -110 on Chiefs (+101). Max bet $50, so basically a free $45.
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Draft Kings is giving away money for tomorrow's NFL opener.
Offering a moneyline of -110 on Chiefs (+101). Max bet $50, so basically a free $45.
Yeah, these have been tremendous giveaways so far. About two weeks ago, FanDuel had Clippers +100, they also had Lakers +101 last week. DraftKings had White Sox +45 two weeks ago.
One could open an account and literally just bet these giveaways and make at least a hundred or couple hundred bucks, without ever betting their own money. These promos are great as everyone is fighting for Illinois gambler dollars. I think it'll keep going as other online books set up shop in Illinois soon.
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Merrifield O 0.5 hits -245 (All lines from DK)
Cubs to score first and win +143
Carlos Santana O 0.5 hits -200
Reds no first inning run -420 (I got it at -420, it's jumped to -480)
Can't parlay the Merrifield with Santana, and can't parlay the Cubs/Reds together, I'll round robin these together.
These are the lines I got earlier for parlays:
Merrifield & Reds No 1st Run -134
Santana & Cubs score first/win +264
Santana & Reds No 1st Inn Run -113
Merrifeld & Cubs score first/win +224
With the wind blowing in at Wrigley tonight, and the pitching matchup, I kinda like Tie Game after 3 innings at +190 (not sure if I'll play it).
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Ouch, Yu with a brutal first.
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SF Giants team total over 3.5 (-114 on DK)
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Dish do you have any idea how the taxes work on this? Is it based on single bet winnings or the sum of all your winnings?
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Dish do you have any idea how the taxes work on this? Is it based on single bet winnings or the sum of all your winnings?
Sum of all winnings for the year, via a W-2G. I know the Tax Cut of 2018 now minimizes the gambling loss deduction (I think at least), unless one itemized their deductions. The online books do have a tax section. I personally am betting small amounts, but am trying to better understand the tax liability that will happen come 2021.
I say the above with how I’ve interpreted things, and there are probably smarter tax people here than I am.
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I just downloaded the FD app (basically for the free referral money and the chiefs +2500 bet). I probably won't use much as not a sports gambler but will this app work if i'm in Wisconsin for the weekend or do you need to be physically in IL to make the bets?
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Mitch over 13.5 rush on FD at -115. To contrast, DK has him at 15.5 -112.
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I went 10/10 yesterday in the barstool pick 'em, and if the Stillers win tonight 24-10, I cash a cool $25K
https://www.barstoolbets.com/blogs/2858938/13-stoolies-have-a-shot-at-winning-dollar25000-during-mnf-tonight
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I went 10/10 yesterday in the barstool pick 'em, and if the Stillers win tonight 24-10, I cash a cool $25K
https://www.barstoolbets.com/blogs/2858938/13-stoolies-have-a-shot-at-winning-dollar25000-during-mnf-tonight
Good luck, reinko! Sucks that it has to be the exact score, though.
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Sum of all winnings for the year, via a W-2G. I know the Tax Cut of 2018 now minimizes the gambling loss deduction (I think at least), unless one itemized their deductions. The online books do have a tax section. I personally am betting small amounts, but am trying to better understand the tax liability that will happen come 2021.
I say the above with how I’ve interpreted things, and there are probably smarter tax people here than I am.
I too have been doing small wagers, however, with all these no-risk bets I've made $425 already. I've been trying to determine how much is going to get taken out for taxes. 15% on winnings over $600?
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I too have been doing small wagers, however, with all these no-risk bets I've made $425 already. I've been trying to determine how much is going to get taken out for taxes. 15% on winnings over $600?
I don’t know if the law has changed, but when I used to spend time at the track, any winnings over $600 were reported to IRS. Winnings of $1000+ had taxes taken out immediately. They were not composite, but based on individual bets.
There were always a couple “cashers” around who would cash large tickets for a 10% fee so I never worried about taxes.
You don’t have that luxury though with online betting.
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I too have been doing small wagers, however, with all these no-risk bets I've made $425 already. I've been trying to determine how much is going to get taken out for taxes. 15% on winnings over $600?
I think that's a good plan, anything over $600, set aside 15% of the winnings for taxes. The books won't take it out for you, but setting it aside is a good idea. A year from now we'll all have a better idea here on the mechanics here, but you've got a good mindset here that you're thinking about it now.
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I went 10/10 yesterday in the barstool pick 'em, and if the Stillers win tonight 24-10, I cash a cool $25K
https://www.barstoolbets.com/blogs/2858938/13-stoolies-have-a-shot-at-winning-dollar25000-during-mnf-tonight
Dude, that's awesome! Good luck!
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I went 10/10 yesterday in the barstool pick 'em, and if the Stillers win tonight 24-10, I cash a cool $25K
https://www.barstoolbets.com/blogs/2858938/13-stoolies-have-a-shot-at-winning-dollar25000-during-mnf-tonight
12 minutes left - a FG and a safety for the Steelers means 25k to my man reinko! Let’s go!!
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Hey my apologies if this is a total let me google that for you question, but after a quick scan I haven't found any easy answers - is it possible to electronically sign up for the sports gambling sites in Illinois, or do you still need to physically walk into a casino to sign up? It looks like you can sign up remotely as long as you are within state lines, but I'm having trouble finding easy answers. I'm a nonresident but will be in the state for awhile over the weekend.
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Hey my apologies if this is a total let me google that for you question, but after a quick scan I haven't found any easy answers - is it possible to electronically sign up for the sports gambling sites in Illinois, or do you still need to physically walk into a casino to sign up? It looks like you can sign up remotely as long as you are within state lines, but I'm having trouble finding easy answers. I'm a nonresident but will be in the state for awhile over the weekend.
Rivers, Draft Kings and Fan Duel can all be done online.
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Hey my apologies if this is a total let me google that for you question, but after a quick scan I haven't found any easy answers - is it possible to electronically sign up for the sports gambling sites in Illinois, or do you still need to physically walk into a casino to sign up? It looks like you can sign up remotely as long as you are within state lines, but I'm having trouble finding easy answers. I'm a nonresident but will be in the state for awhile over the weekend.
You have until end of Saturday to sign up electronically. Pritzker's waiver expires Saturday (9/19). It would be incredibly stupid for the state not to extend it, as Rivers alone did $62 million for basically 3 months (March, which was next to nothing, and then June/July). 93% of the handle was from mobile.
PointsBet and William Hill are also now live mobile in Illinois. Take advantage of every sign up bonus, each site has great incentives right now.
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Got a JFB triple double last night for +500 8-) 8-) 8-)