MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Pakuni on April 20, 2020, 12:58:55 PM
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Not signing with an agent, though
@EvanDaniels
Marquette wing Brendan Bailey is declaring for the NBA Draft but won't sign with an agent and intends to keep his eligibility, per a source.
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Smart move. No hurt in getting feedback and seeing where he is at. Wouldn’t be at all surprised if he stays in the draft. He seems like a 100% Stan guy so not sure if he will stick around for another year. Hope so as he has a lot of potential.
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Smart move. No hurt in getting feedback and seeing where he is at.
Lots to work on for Brendan.
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Smart move. No hurt in getting feedback and seeing where he is at. Wouldn’t be at all surprised if he stays in the draft. He seems like a 100% Stan guy so not sure if he will stick around for another year. Hope so as he has a lot of potential.
I would be surprised. He hasn't shown anything (outside of his stature) that would make an NBA GM think about drafting him.
The only thing that could motivate him to leave is age, since he is already almost 23
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He couldn't even sniff a last spot on the Warriors bench this year
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Smart move. No hurt in getting feedback and seeing where he is at. Wouldn’t be at all surprised if he stays in the draft. He seems like a 100% Stan guy so not sure if he will stick around for another year. Hope so as he has a lot of potential.
Teal?
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Good decision to get feedback and learn about what he needs to do to improve his game. Confident he'll be back and I do wish more Marquette players would take advantage of this. Though I'm not sure how much benefit it will be this year. Seems like it will be harder to get the real beneficial feedback.
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Well, hope he makes the right decision and returns.
When is the cutoff to take your name out of the draft?
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It'll go something like this-
Slow laterally. Slow with the ball. Poor handle. Inconsistent shooter. 3 years too old and 25 lbs too slight.
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Well, hope he makes the right decision and returns.
When is the cutoff to take your name out of the draft?
I think that's all changing because if the NBA does proceed with its season, they'll push back the draft date.
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He couldn't even sniff a last spot on the Warriors bench this year
He started for the Warriors most of last year.
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Brew is right. More MU players should put their name in the draft solely to get back feedback. I always thought Bailey would only play here 3 years. Will likely want to earn a paycheck at 24. And while I don't think it will be in the NBA, he will certainly get some attention overseas.
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Well, hope he makes the right decision and returns.
When is the cutoff to take your name out of the draft?
within the next week, don’t know the specific date though
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Are you kidding me?
Brendan is a good guy, but, for real?
He has about as much chance of making an NBA roster (rounded) as I do.
That said, I think Brendan sees the writing on the wall. Step your game up or sit your backside on the bench. He was heavily over-recruited this year.
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GM feedback: "Ask Juan what he did and do that"
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I think I’m gonna declare for the draft
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I think I’m gonna declare for the draft
I might as well too, since my pickup game is on hold. Need somethin' to do.
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GM feedback: "Ask Juan what he did and do that"
+1. Given Juan's experience, I don't understand why anyone would criticize or make fun of BB here.
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We should all declare. Mathematically, one Scooper would certainly get selected.
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We should all declare. Mathematically, one Scooper would certainly get selected.
That’s because we have Ners who’s a lottery lock whenever he wants to enter the Draft.
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With this logic of getting feedback, Shouldn’t Koby, Theo, Symir, Cain, Elliot etc all declare as well?
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With this logic of getting feedback, Shouldn’t Koby, Theo, Symir, Cain, Elliot etc all declare as well?
Bailey is really the only one with a chance given his size.
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He started for the Warriors most of last year.
Perfect.
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With this logic of getting feedback, Shouldn’t Koby, Theo, Symir, Cain, Elliot etc all declare as well?
This discussion always comes up this time of year and the answer is no. If guys like that all start “declaring” they will just change the rule back to what it was. Then players who would have used the process more legitimately will be stuck saying, “This is why we can’t have nice things.”
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Bailey is really the only one with a chance given his size.
Perhaps the only one with a legit chance at the NBA. But why wouldn't the others want to declare for the NBA draft to get feedback on improving their game, and use that to get better for a likely overseas career?
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with 20 free throw attempts in over 760 minutes, he practiced social distancing on the court all season
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Bailey has some foundational pieces in his favor, including bloodlines and defense. He's a stretch given his age, but can't hurt to get the scouts opinion.
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I'm not even sure what to say. But, Brendan is pretty old, and no harm in declaring. Perhaps hoping his bloodline will be enough for some team to take a flier. I sure can't see it though. Don't think he can even achieve All Big East this year or next for that matter.
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We should all declare. Mathematically, one Scooper would certainly get selected.
I filled out the paperwork my senior year. Never heard anything so not sure if i actually mailed it or not.
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I filled out the paperwork my senior year. Never heard anything so not sure if i actually mailed it or not.
Clyde says you were REJECTED......
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Makes sense, always wondered why more players didn't take advantage of this. Declare, get professional feedback, return to school better for it.
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This isn’t about getting drafted. I guarantee you that Bailey isn’t declaring in the hopes a team takes a flier. This is him getting additional feedback on where he can improve his game which he may not get.
There is no need to knock him or his game.
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He is older than Markus. ;D. I don't see him getting drafted, but like everyone else, he doesn't have anything else to do.
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We should all declare. Mathematically, one Scooper would certainly get selected.
Guys, he means Ners. You can stop the paperwork.
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Not signing with an agent, though
@EvanDaniels
Marquette wing Brendan Bailey is declaring for the NBA Draft but won't sign with an agent and intends to keep his eligibility, per a source.
Smart. "Declaring" without signing an agent really doesn't mean much. Doing what a lot of kids do in order to get feedback. Hopefully he gets some really good feedback and uses it constructively to improve.
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Lots to work on for Brendan.
More than lots--tons. This is a case of over estimating oneself.
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Makes sense, always wondered why more players didn't take advantage of this. Declare, get professional feedback, return to school better for it.
The most puzzling one to me is Sam Hauser. I have no idea why he never once submitted his name.
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More than lots--tons. This is a case of over estimating oneself.
No it’s not
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More than lots--tons. This is a case of over estimating oneself.
No it isn’t. But that statement is ironic coming from you.
Mazos doing takeout?
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No it isn’t. But that statement is ironic coming from you.
Mazos doing takeout?
Think he went out of business on Twitter
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The most puzzling one to me is Sam Hauser. I have no idea why he never once submitted his name.
I think a lot of that had to do with his injuries and transfer. He had surgery between soph and junior year so he couldn’t have worked out for scouts.
When he announced he was transferring it would have looked bad to also declare. I still think Sam knew he had work to do and saw a transfer as a way to do it.
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Well, hope he makes the right decision and returns.
When is the cutoff to take your name out of the draft?
Per JSOnline June 15th
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Per JSOnline June 15th
The NCAA's date to withdraw is June 3rd..
As of today, underclassmen have until the end of the day April 26 to officially declare for the draft. They can maintain their college eligibility, if they so chose, by withdrawing by June 3. (The NBA's withdrawal deadline is June 15, which some prospects may use to play overseas.)
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The NCAA's date to withdraw is June 3rd..
As of today, underclassmen have until the end of the day April 26 to officially declare for the draft. They can maintain their college eligibility, if they so chose, by withdrawing by June 3. (The NBA's withdrawal deadline is June 15, which some prospects may use to play overseas.)
Thanks, then JS Online has it wrong they say until June 15 and still eligible.
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Thanks, then JS Online has it wrong they say until June 15 and still eligible.
If the JS is wrong, then so is the NBA, because they also have June 15.
https://www.nba.com/key-dates
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If the JS is wrong, then so is the NBA, because they also have June 15.
https://www.nba.com/key-dates
No the point is the NCAA requires players to remove themselves from the draft by June 3 to maintain eligibility. There was talk that the NCAA was going to extend it to match the NBA's but I don't know if they ever did that.
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Would it be so bad he left? Give Oso and Cain more playing time, and then you could play Garcia at the 3 with Lewis at the 4.
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Would it be so bad he left? Give Oso and Cain more playing time, and then you could play Garcia at the 3 with Lewis at the 4.
It would not help MU.
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Would it be so bad he left? Give Oso and Cain more playing time, and then you could play Garcia at the 3 with Lewis at the 4.
Yes
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I mean, I don't necessarily see this happening, but it wouldn't totally shock me either if a GM took him with a 2nd round pick as a favor to his dad. Wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened.
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Would it be so bad he left? Give Oso and Cain more playing time, and then you could play Garcia at the 3 with Lewis at the 4.
It takes away one guy who can get hot from three. But his production is not difficult to replace.
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I mean, I don't necessarily see this happening, but it wouldn't totally shock me either if a GM took him with a 2nd round pick as a favor to his dad. Wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened.
Not sure what good that really does Brendan, tho.
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Brendan *COULD* be our best guy this season. If he figures out a way to play at the highest level he's shown, on a consistent basis, he can be really good. Now I don't think it's fair to expect that, but I do see him as a player with a really high ceiling.
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I mean, I don't necessarily see this happening, but it wouldn't totally shock me either if a GM took him with a 2nd round pick as a favor to his dad. Wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened.
I know you don't see it happening but it would shock me. The NBA is not MLB with 30-40 round draft. Invited to a camp, sure, use a draft pick, no way.
I fully expect him to be back but the idea of him leaving is not horrible. He seems like a really good guy just like all of Wojo's players, so I hope for the best for him.
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Average shooter, average quickness, barely can create his own shot, not strong enough around the hoop, but plays pretty good D, will have experience and 2 years left! Can
Improve
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Would it be so bad he left? Give Oso and Cain more playing time, and then you could play Garcia at the 3 with Lewis at the 4.
If Garcia and Lewis start at the forward spots, Lewis would be the three and Garcia the four.
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I can't see Bailey not coming back; however, his dad certainly is providing some good direction as to why his son is throwing his name out there. We need Bailey back. He's experienced and can do a lot of things for us, but there is no doubt he needs a confidence booster. If he can take that energy and effort and apply that to his offensive game from a mental standpoint, he definitely can be a difference maker over the next two years.
He's not ever going to be our top player but everyone needs a guy like Bailey who can help do the little things that matter, which we all witnessed he is capable of doing, but just not consistently.
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Average shooter, average quickness, barely can create his own shot, not strong enough around the hoop, but plays pretty good D, will have experience and 2 years left! Can
Improve
MU's best returning rebounder. His quickness would look better but Wojo likes to put him on smaller players who are hot due to his propensity to get blocks.
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He's not ever going to be our top player but everyone needs a guy like Bailey who can help do the little things that matter, which we all witnessed he is capable of doing, but just not consistently.
Well there's a draft profile.
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The density of people who think he is actually trying to get drafted this year is...exhausting.
If you had the chance to get better and learn from. the best about where your flaws are, wouldn't you do it? I sure as hell would.
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He's not ever going to be our top player but everyone needs a guy like Bailey who can help do the little things that matter, which we all witnessed he is capable of doing, but just not consistently.
So not exactly a Marquette “all timer”, a’ina?
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If so many are stating he is smart for getting this feedback...are the hundreds of other kids with similar talent who don't go this route dumb?
It seems smart to me...but I have to question why more don't do the same.
Hope to see him back next year...great kid, seems like a hard worker, and had some real highs this year.
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In the current restricted environment, how would Bailey even be evaluated? I assume before June there is not going to be some sort of combine or camp, so does that mean NBA scouts would have to travel to Milwaukee to evaluate him in person? Would they waste that time on a "fringe" prospect? What exactly does declaring for the draft allow Bailey to do in regards to being evaluated? Seems like a scout or two could watch some game film and advise him based on that.
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In the current restricted environment, how would Bailey even be evaluated? I assume before June there is not going to be some sort of combine or camp, so does that mean NBA scouts would have to travel to Milwaukee to evaluate him in person? Would they waste that time on a "fringe" prospect? What exactly does declaring for the draft allow Bailey to do in regards to being evaluated? Seems like a scout or two could watch some game film and advise him based on that.
.....and that is what they will be doing....
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If Garcia and Lewis start at the forward spots, Lewis would be the three and Garcia the four.
Bailey can see the handwriting on the wall.
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Bailey can see the handwriting on the wall.
Not sure about that
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FWIW, MU would drop from 59 to 70 without Bailey
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FWIW, MU would drop from 59 to 70 without Bailey
Don't know if I'd believe that. But I really don't think we're an NCAA team either way.
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If Carton gets approval to play next year, MU will be at least on the bubble
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FWIW, MU would drop from 59 to 70 without Bailey
LOL....no they won't!
He is not that much of a difference maker
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If so many are stating he is smart for getting this feedback...are the hundreds of other kids with similar talent who don't go this route dumb?
It seems smart to me...but I have to question why more don't do the same.
Hope to see him back next year...great kid, seems like a hard worker, and had some real highs this year.
I think it is a head game ploy to prevent Wojo from thinking that Lewis should beat him out or slot in front of him or that he is not the best returning player.
BY DECLARING HIMSELF ELIGIBLE FOR THE NBA, BAILEY IS INDIRECTLY STATING THAT HE IS THE BEST PLAYER IN HIS EYES, SO THAT IS HOW HE IS TREATED AND LOOKED AT AS SUCH, EVEN IF THERE IS OR IS NOT A QUESTION ABOUT IT.
So now, Wojo has no choice but to start him because after all, you can't slight a guy who declared for the NBA draft can you? It put the pressure and onus on Wojo and backs him into a corner. It's a status play to put himself over Garcia, Lewis or Carton. I see what's going on here. He's establishing his pecking order.
Actually think Jamal Cain is better. . . but that I neither here nor there.
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Love BB’s size, athleticism, defense, and improving 3-pt shot. He’s someone that should make a huge leap next year, although I think he would greatly benefit from a system in which one person isn’t the focal point nearly every time down the floor. Carlino, Ellensen, Howard, etc. the Rowsey, Howard, Hauser 3-headed monster was sort of an exception.
I hope he returns and his confidence grows.
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He started for the Warriors most of last year.
Agree very good point and just to further clarify. He Started All 30 Games For the Warriors and was one of two Warriors to do so. Brendan also finished 14th in the Big East in rebounding at 5.7 rebounds per game.
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Lots of Bailey disparagement in here. Seriously? While he was inconsistent, he is our best returning player. Cain, Theo, and Elliott have had their moments, but none are any more consistent than Bailey. He's our returning leader in offensive efficiency and tallied more rebounds and points than any of those guys. He would be a big loss to a team that lost a lot.
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Lots of Bailey disparagement in here. Seriously? While he was inconsistent, he is our best returning player. Cain, Theo, and Elliott have had their moments, but none are any more consistent than Bailey. He's our returning leader in offensive efficiency and tallied more rebounds and points than any of those guys. He would be a big loss to a team that lost a lot.
Yep. If you look at his stats, he was better than the likes of Jamil after his sophomore year. No idea why people are so down on him.
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Lots of Bailey disparagement in here. Seriously? While he was inconsistent, he is our best returning player. Cain, Theo, and Elliott have had their moments, but none are any more consistent than Bailey. He's our returning leader in offensive efficiency and tallied more rebounds and points than any of those guys. He would be a big loss to a team that lost a lot.
No doubt. Also has the highest ceiling of our returning players by a pretty good margin. I still believe in BB and think he’ll turn out to be a really good player
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He ain't that good Unless he makes a complete 360 with his offense.. NBA standards must be pretty low. Must be flunking school.
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He ain't that good Unless he makes a complete 360 with his offense.. NBA standards must be pretty low. Must be flunking school.
Wow. This is really uncalled for on a number of levels.
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People too caught up in his age vs how many years he took away from BBall. He's now played as many as he took off, if the talent is there to live up to his ranking or bloodline then I'd expect To see it this coming year.
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He ain't that good Unless he makes a complete 360 with his offense.. NBA standards must be pretty low. Must be flunking school.
A complete 360? To end up exactly where he’s at?
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A complete 360? To end up exactly where he’s at?
Earl must have been a College of Comm grad like me. We only had to take 1 math class to graduate :)
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Put me in the group that's puzzled by all the BB hate. Yes he was inconsistent, but who aside from Markus wasn't last year? I think there's a lot of backup QB syndrome going on if people think that Lewis and Osa are immediately going to take all his minutes. I'm glad he's getting feedback about his game, and look forward to his contributions next year.
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If he's the best returning player Marquette is in big trouble this year.
Nice kid, but doesn't do anything particularly well outside of rebounding. If there is a season, and he makes a leap, I'll happily eat my words.
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If he's the best returning player Marquette is in big trouble this year.
Nice kid, but doesn't do anything particularly well outside of rebounding. If there is a season, and he makes a leap, I'll happily eat my words.
Vander exploded his junior year, hope Bailey can as well. A good year would be 12 and 5, in my mind.
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Like MUfan, I will HAPPILY EAT MY WORDS if he has a banner year.
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Vander exploded his junior year, hope Bailey can as well. A good year would be 12 and 5, in my mind.
These are realistic expectations. And have no place on the message boards.
Seriously though, I would love this from a consistency standpoint. When BB got out of his own head, he had some amazing games (St Johns, Butler, even the Maryland game). He reminds me a bit of Sam where if he saw it go through early, it helped for the rest of the game--however, when it didn't feel in rhythm, BB sort of disappeared and became deferential where Sam would try and create a shot for himself or others. I really hope that whatever feedback and coaching BB gets in the offseason helps him mitigate this.
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While he is not NBA ready, there is no reason to react so negatively. This is a guy that's represented Marquette for two years so far. Assuming Bailey returns, this can only mean good things for him. He'll be more determined and focused to improve on weaker areas of his game and add that when returning to MU. Everyone calling him out or criticizing him needs to chill out.
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Put me in the group that's puzzled by all the BB hate. Yes he was inconsistent, but who aside from Markus wasn't last year? I think there's a lot of backup QB syndrome going on if people think that Lewis and Osa are immediately going to take all his minutes. I'm glad he's getting feedback about his game, and look forward to his contributions next year.
What does the fact that other players (everyone not named Markus) were also inconsistent (i.e., not very good)? Believe me, if Koby, Jamal, Greg or Theo we’re “testing the NBA waters” it would raise eyebrows too. If Brendan’s Dad wasn’t Thurl this likely wouldn’t be happening.
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These are realistic expectations. And have no place on the message boards.
Seriously though, I would love this from a consistency standpoint. When BB got out of his own head, he had some amazing games (St Johns, Butler, even the Maryland game). He reminds me a bit of Sam where if he saw it go through early, it helped for the rest of the game--however, when it didn't feel in rhythm, BB sort of disappeared and became deferential where Sam would try and create a shot for himself or others. I really hope that whatever feedback and coaching BB gets in the offseason helps him mitigate this.
BB took a step up last year, but, to compare him to Sam Hauser? Sam was consistent AF and markedly better across the board.
This notion of getting "feedback," when so far removed from actually being drafted is kind of silly. Brendan has to get better at everything across the board to have a chance. IMO, Jamal Cain is a better pro prospect - 2 years younger, more athletic.
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What does the fact that other players (everyone not named Markus) were also inconsistent (i.e., not very good)? Believe me, if Koby, Jamal, Greg or Theo we’re “testing the NBA waters” it would raise eyebrows too. If Brendan’s Dad wasn’t Thurl this likely wouldn’t be happening.
This literally has nothing to do with Thurl. Last year Quentin Goodin declared. Naji, Mintz, Powell, Scruggs, hell--even Jayce declared. Don't really recall anyone scratching their heads on those ones.
This isn't testing the NBA waters. It's getting feedback from NBA scouts on weaknesses.
Edit: See the 2019 list: https://247sports.com/Article/2019-NBA-Draft-underclassmen-College-players-leaving-early-for-NBA-130482866/
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BB took a step up last year, but, to compare him to Sam Hauser? Sam was consistent AF and markedly better across the board.
This notion of getting "feedback," when so far removed from actually being drafted is kind of silly. Brendan has to get better at everything across the board to have a chance. IMO, Jamal Cain is a better pro prospect - 2 years younger, more athletic.
Way too slight with too many holes in his game.
The path to becoming an NBA player is much easier to see for BB than it is for JC. (Although I don't think either of them will get much more than a token seat on the bench at some point.)
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BB took a step up last year, but, to compare him to Sam Hauser? Sam was consistent AF and markedly better across the board.
This notion of getting "feedback," when so far removed from actually being drafted is kind of silly. Brendan has to get better at everything across the board to have a chance. IMO, Jamal Cain is a better pro prospect - 2 years younger, more athletic.
Once again, your reading (and comprehension) stopped when you saw something you thought you might disagree with. I said that in one facet (specifically GETTING IN A JUMPER RHYTHM), BB reminded me of Sam. I also stated that where Sam differed was he could get himself out of a slump, where I felt Brendan disappeared when he didn't feel in rhythm. At no time did I say BB was better than Sam.
Please try and digest what you read before you respond. It will benefit the board greatly.
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What does the fact that other players (everyone not named Markus) were also inconsistent (i.e., not very good)? Believe me, if Koby, Jamal, Greg or Theo we’re “testing the NBA waters” it would raise eyebrows too. If Brendan’s Dad wasn’t Thurl this likely wouldn’t be happening.
I think you forgot a few words in your question but I can tell what you were trying to say. I was more so addressing the posts that were implying that BB isn't good, not that it is a bit surprising that he's declared.
He is not that much of a difference maker
He ain't that good Unless he makes a complete 360 with his offense.. NBA standards must be pretty low. Must be flunking school.
Nice kid, but doesn't do anything particularly well outside of rebounding.
BB was inconsistent, but he was a 38% three point shooter on 4 attempts per game. His 3 point shooting numbers were almost identical to Sacars (46 for 120 vs 49 for 125) and Sacar has gotten much praise here about how he has improved as a shooter. BB led the team in boards, was second in blocks and had a respectable TO%. Yes his ft rate and assist % could use some work, but there has been an attitude by some posters that he wouldn't be missed if he stayed in the draft. People talking about how Jamal was better, well Jamal had a similar 3 point shooting percentage with significantly fewer attempts, had fewer boards, half as many blocks, and more TOs. BB was an important player for us last year, and is very likely to be an important player for us this year.
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Brendan should just read scoop instead of getting feedback from professionals
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He ain't that good Unless he makes a complete 360 with his offense.. NBA standards must be pretty low. Must be flunking school.
Wow. Rather than the obvious reason of wanting to get professional feedback before returning to school we jump to "must be flunking school." We deserve the last two years of collapses
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for what its worth, rivals writer based in Utah said Bailey will be going pro regardless
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Brendan should just read scoop instead of getting feedback from professionals
He'd transfer. Quite a few posts are going over the edge on the negativity scale.
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for what its worth, rivals writer based in Utah said Bailey will be going pro regardless
He was probably gone the moment Stan left, no?
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I mean, I don't necessarily see this happening, but it wouldn't totally shock me either if a GM took him with a 2nd round pick as a favor to his dad. Wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened.
Just curious, but when has a NBA GM ever drafter the son of a former NBA player as a favor? I can't believe this ever happened. Even if a team would draft him with a second round pick, I'm not sure how much of a "favor" it would be. Wes Matthews did far better without being a 2nd round pick. He was able to go to the best situation for him, and after his first year he was making more $ than Griffin, Harden, and Curry - all drafted players in his class.
Regardless, he had our most rebounds, 2nd most blocks, shot 38% from 3, is a long defender, and can jump. He appears mature and to be a good teammate. He would help the team next year. Let's hope he comes back.
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for what its worth, rivals writer based in Utah said Bailey will be going pro regardless
Where does he think he is going to? Needs 1 more year at least to get a decent contract in Europe. If he is not happy at MU then transfer to LMU, he would be good
there. Must be a reason Wojo is still out there looking for more players.
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for what its worth, rivals writer based in Utah said Bailey will be going pro regardless
This is the only worthwhile comment in the 4 pages of this thread. Can you provide a link?
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for what its worth, rivals writer based in Utah said Bailey will be going pro regardless
interesting. Wish him the best. Sounds like its Jamal's time to sink or swim.
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This is the only worthwhile comment in the 4 pages of this thread. Can you provide a link?
Maybe Cubi can find him a spot on the bench in a Venezuelan league!!! I mean seriously I hope the best for all the MU kids but there were entire games in the BE season where one did not even know he was on the court and his stat line confirmed that!!
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He ain't that good Unless he makes a complete 360 with his offense.. NBA standards must be pretty low. Must be flunking school.
Lol i always love the 360 reference 😂😂
Right up there with “i could care less” 😂
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for what its worth, rivals writer based in Utah said Bailey will be going pro regardless
Link?
If that happens, good luck to him. I just won't lose sleep over losing his "potential."
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Once again, your reading (and comprehension) stopped when you saw something you thought you might disagree with. I said that in one facet (specifically GETTING IN A JUMPER RHYTHM), BB reminded me of Sam. I also stated that where Sam differed was he could get himself out of a slump, where I felt Brendan disappeared when he didn't feel in rhythm. At no time did I say BB was better than Sam.
Please try and digest what you read before you respond. It will benefit the board greatly.
Please try not to make dumb posts. It will benefit the board greatly. Comparing Brendan Bailey to Sam Hauser in any capacity was dumb. But I guess we all know better now that the 3 games Brendan "didn't get in his head," he was amazing. If only all it took for D-1 players to be "amazing" was seeing their first shot or two go in.
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If Bailey goes pro now, he will not be in the NBA in the next year or two. However, I can see him doing a Buycks, Jamil Wilson, Juan if he goes out and works hard for a couple years. I could see him as a 9th man on an NBA team in 2-3 years.
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If Bailey goes pro now, he will not be in the NBA in the next year or two. However, I can see him doing a Buycks, Jamil Wilson, Juan if he goes out and works hard for a couple years. I could see him as a 9th man on an NBA team in 2-3 years.
I think Brendan Bailey himself thinks that’s a lofty goal.
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Please try not to make dumb posts. It will benefit the board greatly. Comparing Brendan Bailey to Sam Hauser in any capacity was dumb. But I guess we all know better now that the 3 games Brendan "didn't get in his head," he was amazing. If only all it took for D-1 players to be "amazing" was seeing their first shot or two go in.
Believe it or not, you don't have to have a knee jerk reacting to everything that happens. It amuses me that you can't get out of your own way. Makes you get dunked on more than you actually dunked in your heyday.
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Believe it or not, you don't have to have a knee jerk reacting to everything that happens. It amuses me that you can't get out of your own way. Makes you get dunked on more than you actually dunked in your heyday.
Okay Jake. Good talk. Sorry I get into your head so easily, and that it is so easy to dunk on you. Jesus.
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only upside i can think of is if he gets into the g-league and dad thinks he may be able to grow/improve more in that atmosphere. to see if he can move his game toward an nba level playing with nba level players. just a guess. he's a good kid, but maybe they(he and dad) don't think wojo's system(gasp) is getting him anywhere near that level.
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Okay Jake. Good talk. Sorry I get into your head so easily, and that it is so easy to dunk on you. Jesus.
I am glad you think so highly of yourself. It is unfortunate for the contributing members of this board that you have trouble reading complete sentences before reacting to things. Had you actually read my post with a goal of understanding rather than "being right" (of what, I still have no idea), you would have actually understood a limited comparison I was making based on my observations. I implore you to try and debate more constructively in the future, rather than rush "win" whatever competition that you seem to exists here. It's a f*cking message board man.
If this sh*tposting was you "dunking" on me, I imagine it looked like this:
(https://media.giphy.com/media/EXHHMS9caoxAA/giphy.gif)
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This isn’t about getting drafted. I guarantee you that Bailey isn’t declaring in the hopes a team takes a flier. This is him getting additional feedback on where he can improve his game which he may not get.
There is no need to knock him or his game.
I think in a normal year this would be a good idea. This year I am not sure if players will even get a tryout. Assuming that is the case how can you get any good feedback to help your game?
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If he's the best returning player Marquette is in big trouble this year.
Nice kid, but doesn't do anything particularly well outside of rebounding. If there is a season, and he makes a leap, I'll happily eat my words.
Yeah I mean unless we get big contributions from the newcomers we are in big trouble. But who of our returning players is better?
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I think in a normal year this would be a good idea. This year I am not sure if players will even get a tryout. Assuming that is the case how can you get any good feedback to help your game?
I think you can always do film work with scouts. That said, this article was interesting with what underclassmen can expect:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22854438/testing-nba-draft-waters-more-complicated-sounds (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22854438/testing-nba-draft-waters-more-complicated-sounds)
"The UAC sends NBA executives a series of emails with a list of names, requesting their team's assessment of players' draft stock. The player is then informed of the consensus reached by weighing the NBA executives' responses and offering feedback on whether the player is likely to be a lottery pick, first-rounder, second-rounder or undrafted."
However, for more draft-serious kids, this is gonna be rough: "While scouts, coaches and executives have access to hours of film on any given prospect, it is often said they can really get to know a player during in-person workouts and interviews. Players can show off how they compete against others in group settings and demonstrate how they have improved since the college season ended." (source: https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/2020/03/28/nba-pre-draft-process-gym-workouts-coronavirus-pandemic/ (https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/2020/03/28/nba-pre-draft-process-gym-workouts-coronavirus-pandemic/))
Looking at the Snapchat where Carton training with a draft-eligible prospect (I forget who, at the moment), I can't help but wonder if some teams (or the trainers hired by the student) are trying to set up equipment for drills, exercises, etc. so that they can then live patch-in NBA front-office types for evaluation on some of the basic drills and such.
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only upside i can think of is if he gets into the g-league and dad thinks he may be able to grow/improve more in that atmosphere. to see if he can move his game toward an nba level playing with nba level players. just a guess. he's a good kid, but maybe they(he and dad) don't think wojo's system(gasp) is getting him anywhere near that level.
This is plausible.
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I mean, I don't necessarily see this happening, but it wouldn't totally shock me either if a GM took him with a 2nd round pick as a favor to his dad. Wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened.
This happens all the time in baseball where there are dozens of rounds. In the NBA, with only two rounds? I find it incredibly hard to believe.
That said, with just about every NBA team having a G-League affiliate, is it time for the NBA to expand its draft to 3 or 4 rounds?
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This happens all the time in baseball where there are dozens of rounds. In the NBA, with only two rounds? I find it incredibly hard to believe.
Yep. Though, post-draft, you have guys like Duje Dukan of Wisconsin who had a cup of tea in the NBA because of the connections of his father who was an NBA scout. But, to actually get drafted........
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Where does he think he is going to? Needs 1 more year at least to get a decent contract in Europe. If he is not happy at MU then transfer to LMU, he would be good
there. Must be a reason Wojo is still out there looking for more players.
Probably more likely because he has two open scholarships, even with BB.
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Hope this talk about BB going pro regardless is just...talk.
We could really use him next season. Count me on the side that wants him back. We're not really in a position to be scoffing at quite likely our best returning player.
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I wish Brendan didn't keep all that NBA level talent bottled up last season. Does his father former playing weigh in the NBA worthy column?
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Please try not to make dumb posts. It will benefit the board greatly. Comparing Brendan Bailey to Sam Hauser in any capacity was dumb. But I guess we all know better now that the 3 games Brendan "didn't get in his head," he was amazing. If only all it took for D-1 players to be "amazing" was seeing their first shot or two go in.
For all the crying you do about the mind games Wojo plays with people by not letting them play 40 minutes when they aren't producing, this is pure gold.
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for what its worth, rivals writer based in Utah said Bailey will be going pro regardless
Still no link?
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Not Brendan Bailey but....
John Fanta
@John_Fanta
·
4m
Breaking: Ty-Shon Alexander has announced he is staying in the NBA Draft, and will forgo his senior season at Creighton. Alexander is signing with Prosport Management’s Nate Conley.
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Like MUfan, I will HAPPILY EAT MY WORDS if he has a banner year.
Would that include staying eligible since you said he must be flunking?
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Lewis, Garcia and O...all better than BB. BB gets only pine-time next season. Hence, go to the NBA minors, Euro...heck, join Luke in Grenada. In a couple years, let’s see whatcha got. As for MU, we’re fine at the 3&4. Add a PF transfer, bring in Mane or Perez or the D-II kid and let’s roll.
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Stop with the criticism. Some people need to grow up. Brendan is our best returning player. I expect Garcia and Carton to be our best 2 players next season, but losing Bailey hurts the team dramatically.
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double post
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Lewis, Garcia and O...all better than BB. BB gets only pine-time next season. Hence, go to the NBA minors, Euro...heck, join Luke in Grenada. In a couple years, let’s see whatcha got. As for MU, we’re fine at the 3&4. Add a PF transfer, bring in Mane or Perez or the D-II kid and let’s roll.
OMG, the prototypical these guys are fantastic because they’re recruits post.
This time next year, you’ll say all three of them are crap because they’ll have played a year without making All Big East.
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Back up quarterback.
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Lewis, Garcia and O...all better than BB. BB gets only pine-time next season. Hence, go to the NBA minors, Euro...heck, join Luke in Grenada. In a couple years, let’s see whatcha got. As for MU, we’re fine at the 3&4. Add a PF transfer, bring in Mane or Perez or the D-II kid and let’s roll.
No they aren’t.
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If we could land a grad transfer who’d come in and:
-guard opponents’ 2-4
- shoot 38% from 3
- put up double digit ppg
- pull down 5-6 boards per game
- appear to be a good teammate
we’d be all over him.
Let’s hope BB stay and keeps up his improvement.
After all there’s some room for optimism that he’ll keep getting better. Thanks to Auburn, we know that a player’s biggest jump in value add typically comes between his frosh and sophomore years. Perhaps we can see more junior year improvement from a guy who took a couple years off?
So let’s all cheer for BB.
Let’s all hope he hears those NBA suits when they say he needs 10-20 pounds of muscle, lots of work on his handles and more of a willingness to mix it up inside.
And let’s hope all that work makes him our third best player next year (after Carton and Dawson).
Let’s hope that’s the case. Because if BB’s not our 3rd best baller we’re banking on:
- all 3 freshmen to be immediately great
- full health from GE
- consistency from Jamal
Love to see all of the above happen but would rather not bet on it.
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The idea that we would be better without BB next year is preposterous. Not nearly as preposterous as the idea that we were going to be better without Sam and Joey this year (that was an all timer) but preposterous nonetheless.
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For all the crying you do about the mind games Wojo plays with people by not letting them play 40 minutes when they aren't producing, this is pure gold.
Brendan was a chosen one. Wojo is loyal AF to his chosen ones. Only problem? Wojo struggles to grasp who his best are.
Results are what they are buddy. Worst coach at MU since Dukiet. Sorry. He is a better recruiter than Mike Deane. So, at least we have that to hang our hat and hopes on.
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Brendan was a chosen one. Wojo is loyal AF to his chosen ones. Only problem? Wojo struggles to grasp who his best are.
Results are what they are buddy. Worst coach at MU since Dukiet. Sorry. He is a better recruiter than Mike Deane. So, at least we have that to hang our hat and hopes on.
Lol.
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Brendan was a chosen one. Wojo is loyal AF to his chosen ones. Only problem? Wojo struggles to grasp who his best are.
Results are what they are buddy. Worst coach at MU since Dukiet. Sorry. He is a better recruiter than Mike Deane. So, at least we have that to hang our hat and hopes on.
*yawn*
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Brendan was a chosen one. Wojo is loyal AF to his chosen ones. Only problem? Wojo struggles to grasp who his best are.
Results are what they are buddy. Worst coach at MU since Dukiet. Sorry. He is a better recruiter than Mike Deane. So, at least we have that to hang our hat and hopes on.
Change your handle to the Broken Record.
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Change your handle to the Broken Record.
Amen. Dude’s gotta get a new gig.
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Brendan was a chosen one. Wojo is loyal AF to his chosen ones. Only problem? Wojo struggles to grasp who his best are.
Results are what they are buddy. Worst coach at MU since Dukiet. Sorry. He is a better recruiter than Mike Deane. So, at least we have that to hang our hat and hopes on.
::)
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I just hope Mane doesn't see this thread or we are definitely out. Fan loyalty is one of his priorities, fact.
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No they aren’t.
A) how do you know?
B) if you do know, then the recruits must suck ‘cause BB is meh.
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A) how do you know?
B) if you do know, then the recruits must suck ‘cause BB is meh.
No they don’t.
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I just hope Mane doesn't see this thread or we are definitely out. Fan loyalty is one of his priorities, fact.
This is a mind set that will never be accurate.
Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of stupid on this thread. But this thread isn't swaying a recruit lol.
Everyone always says this. Google any teams boards, you see stuff like this on every single board. So by this logic, every player is going straight to pro ball.
Also, if this were accurate. We might as well all just go create profiles on every BE team board and spew nonsense. No recruits for anyone!
A guy with NBA aspirations isn't making his decision on a message board. And if he was, not sure thats the type of mental fortitude you want grinding on your team.
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A) how do you know?
B) if you do know, then the recruits must suck ‘cause BB is meh.
Ah the new guy hyping up the freshmen. Then when they don’t perform to his outsized expectations, he’ll complain about them.
And most of us will snicker.
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OMG, the prototypical these guys are fantastic because they’re recruits post.
This time next year, you’ll say all three of them are crap because they’ll have played a year without making All Big East.
ride that mediocre train to 18-12, brah. The tickets are cheap.
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Ah the new guy hyping up the freshmen. Then when they don’t perform to his outsized expectations, he’ll complain about them.
And most of us will snicker.
...better idea. Set the bar high. Expect greatness, or step aside mon ami. DePaul will take you.
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ride that mediocre train to 18-12, brah. The tickets are cheap.
Brah. So dope.
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This is a mind set that will never be accurate.
Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of stupid on this thread. But this thread isn't swaying a recruit lol.
Everyone always says this. Google any teams boards, you see stuff like this on every single board. So by this logic, every player is going straight to pro ball.
Also, if this were accurate. We might as well all just go create profiles on every BE team board and spew nonsense. No recruits for anyone!
A guy with NBA aspirations isn't making his decision on a message board. And if he was, not sure thats the type of mental fortitude you want grinding on your team.
It is totally accurate per Mane, fact.
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This is a mind set that will never be accurate.
Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of stupid on this thread. But this thread isn't swaying a recruit lol.
Everyone always says this. Google any teams boards, you see stuff like this on every single board. So by this logic, every player is going straight to pro ball.
Also, if this were accurate. We might as well all just go create profiles on every BE team board and spew nonsense. No recruits for anyone!
A guy with NBA aspirations isn't making his decision on a message board. And if he was, not sure thats the type of mental fortitude you want grinding on your team.
Mane's priority is not really NBA as of now because he is expected 2nd round.
He trusts his parents.
Priorities:
Coach stability (he expects he could be 2 years)
Development
Playing right away but he knows he has to earn it and not afraid
Fan spirit and loyalty
Fact
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It is totally accurate per Mane, fact.
No, Karim Mane making his decision based off a teams message board is not a fact.
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This is one thing I have never been able to understand, why the mods so loosely moderate stuff here and allow all the harsh criticism of players. It's not a good look for one thing, for another, recruits DO read message bards, or if they don't, relatives or their friends or someone does. To think it can't have an affect is wrong.
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No, Karim Mane making his decision based off a teams message board is not a fact.
Do work for MSU if you want. I'm talking facts no speculation. But you be you.
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Do work for MSU if you want. I'm talking facts no speculation. But you be you.
3+5=8. That is a fact.
20 year old kid is looking at message boards to form his college choice, is not a fact.
Again, by this logic you should stop wasting time sounding like a complete moron here and instead be on the MSU board say Henry is human garbage.
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I spend so little time on here that I had to check the date this thread was started. I truthfully thought maybe I missed this thread on April 1st. If nothing else, this provided a nice chuckle in my home office.
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...better idea. Set the bar high. Expect greatness, or step aside mon ami. DePaul will take you.
Dude. Fans on message boards "setting the bar high" doesn't impact actual performance. Have you not realized that?
IOW, just because you say the three freshmen are better than BB, that doesn't actually make that happen.
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BB was easily the most frustrating player to watch this year. Largely due to the fact that, occasionally, he can be really good. I highly doubt that a 23 year old, with access to a coaching staff like MU's, needs to have NBA scouts critique his game. If he believes he needs big numbers to be drafted, he should look to a mid-major out West. In my view, he's a lot like Sandy Cohen.
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No, Karim Mane making his decision based off a teams message board is not a fact.
How dare you underestimate the power of Scoop and News: Garcia dreams MU.
Karim wants to go to a school that is Pollyanna, where its dispassionate fans are spirited in their support of mediocrity and end of season meltdowns. Who cares if that same fanbase is Top 15 in attendance, despite being a school with an enrollment of just 10k, and not having an NCAA win in 7 years.
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How dare you underestimate the power of Scoop and News: Garcia dreams MU.
Karim wants to go to a school that is Pollyanna, where its dispassionate fans are spirited in their support of mediocrity and end of season meltdowns. Who cares if that same fanbase is Top 15 in attendance, despite being a school with an enrollment of just 10k, and not having an NCAA win in 7 years.
You seem to buy into what the meat eaters have to say, and we’ve been told stone cold lock Mane has eliminated MU from consideration. No chance he comes, ship has sailed.
Why does Mane continue to list MU and do virtual visits? Just bored and wants to see pictures of what the Fiserv would look like (even though he’s been in it), what an empty campus and Milwaukee looks like? Getting payback on Wojo for all the mind games he plays with the “non chosen ones” on the team?
Seems weird.
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You seem to buy into what the meat eaters have to say, and we’ve been told stone cold lock Mane has eliminated MU from consideration. No chance he comes, ship has sailed.
Why does Mane continue to list MU and do virtual visits? Just bored and wants to see pictures of what the Fiserv would look like (even though he’s been in it), what an empty campus and Milwaukee looks like? Getting payback on Wojo for all the mind games he plays with the “non chosen ones” on the team?
Seems weird.
Wojo must be upping his offer$. You know, just like the other schools do when we lose a recruit.
Would be an excellent score, should we land Mane. Getting Carton was big. Mane would be huge. But..I am in the camp of the meat eaters, and don't think he's coming to MU. MSU will be the choice.
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Wojo must be upping his offer$. You know, just like the other schools do when we lose a recruit.
Would be an excellent score, should we land Mane. Getting Carton was big. Mane would be huge. But..I am in the camp of the meat eaters, and don't think he's coming to MU. MSU will be the choice.
You think Wojo/MU are paying players?
At least one member of the meaters still believes Mane is coming
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Wojo must be upping his offer$. You know, just like the other schools do when we lose a recruit.
Would be an excellent score, should we land Mane. Getting Carton was big. Mane would be huge. But..I am in the camp of the meat eaters, and don't think he's coming to MU. MSU will be the choice.
If you are implying that MU is offering to pay Mane for his services, you are incorrect.
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If you are implying that MU is offering to pay Mane for his services, you are incorrect.
Facts have no place at scoop
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If you are implying that MU is offering to pay Mane for his services, you are incorrect.
No. I don't think that MU is offering to pay Mane. I just laugh when ProJos use this excuse when we lose out on a recruit to programs who have had a lot more success than us in the past 7 years.
Choosing MU and Wojo over MSU and Izzo? Thats a tough sell.
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No. I don't think that MU is offering to pay Mane. I just laugh when ProJos use this excuse when we lose out on a recruit to programs who have had a lot more success than us in the past 7 years.
Choosing MU and Wojo over MSU and Izzo? Thats a tough sell.
Can you try to be less of a broken record and attempt to use your posts to add value?
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No. I don't think that MU is offering to pay Mane. I just laugh when ProJos use this excuse when we lose out on a recruit to programs who have had a lot more success than us in the past 7 years.
Choosing MU and Wojo over MSU and Izzo? Thats a tough sell.
I believe I have said that about losing kids to Arizona and Kansas. I wonder why I might say that. They don’t have coaches on federal wires talking about the players they’ve paid or anything...
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3+5=8. That is a fact.
20 year old kid is looking at message boards to form his college choice, is not a fact.
Again, by this logic you should stop wasting time sounding like a complete moron here and instead be on the MSU board say Henry is human garbage.
Yeah, you sound like a really reasonable person. Keep talking garbage. When information is a known straight from the source that is a fact. I'll just let this stupid thread be. Go ahead do the damage.
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I wonder to what extent Joey is in his ear about the inner workings of Wojo, MU, etc.
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I spend so little time on here that I had to check the date this thread was started. I truthfully thought maybe I missed this thread on April 1st. If nothing else, this provided a nice chuckle in my home office.
And this, in turn, gave me a chuckle.
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Wojo must be upping his offer$. You know, just like the other schools do when we lose a recruit.
All your other attacks continue to flail, and so now you resort to libeling our coach? What the hell is wrong with you?
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Getting Carton was big huge. Mane would be huge big.
FIFY
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Getting Carton was huge, getting Mane would also be huge, losing Bailey would be equally huge.
FIFY
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Getting Carton was huge, getting Mane would also be huge, losing Bailey would be equally huge.
FIFY
how so? To date, what has BB done that would equate to huge loss?
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how so? To date, what has BB done that would equate to huge loss?
Second leading returning scorer after inefficient Koby, highest offensive efficiency, leading returning rebounder, most made threes, and arguably our best returning defender.
Losing your best returning player is rarely a good thing.
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Second leading returning scorer after inefficient Koby, highest offensive efficiency, leading returning rebounder, most made threes, and arguably our best returning defender.
Losing your best returning player is rarely a good thing.
Unless....you can replace him with a better player
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Unless....you can replace him with a better player
But when you have 2 open scholarships you don’t need to replace him, you can just add the better player and keep the returning player.
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But when you have 2 open scholarships you don’t need to replace him, you can just add the better player and keep the returning player.
True...OR what if you add TWO better players with the remaining scholarships *Cough Mane *cough. *cough Santos-Silva *cough
However, Brews statement was it's never good to lose your best returning player, which is a factual statement UNLESS you do lose him, but replace him with a better player(s).
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This is one thing I have never been able to understand, why the mods so loosely moderate stuff here and allow all the harsh criticism of players. It's not a good look for one thing, for another, recruits DO read message bards, or if they don't, relatives or their friends or someone does. To think it can't have an affect is wrong.
We should not even need mods to do this. We simply should not be overly criticize our players. I understand people being disappointed with a loss, but some posters need a reality check on what is really important in life.
I try not to be negative about players, but this site just seems to suck me in. I would not come here at all except I want to know what is going on with recruiting. Even with potential recruits some posters are saying they do not want this recruit. I do not understand this. Unless you personally know a player, you do not know if they fit in with the team. Even a player ranked 50th might not be better than a player ranked just outside top 100. It is up to the coaches to get the players that best fit the team. The coaches need to decide if a recruit is better than an open scholarship.
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Yeah, you sound like a really reasonable person. Keep talking garbage. When information is a known straight from the source that is a fact. I'll just let this stupid thread be. Go ahead do the damage.
Wait, so me telling you that you don't know what a fact is, is now whats going to ruin our chance at Mane??
LOL
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True...OR what if you add TWO better players with the remaining scholarships *Cough Mane *cough. *cough Santos-Silva *cough
I'm not sure either of them are better than Bailey. They might be shinier and newer, but at this level, Bailey is more proven.
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I'm not sure either of them are better than Bailey. They might be shinier and newer, but at this level, Bailey is more proven.
Santos Silva is far more proven.
He plays in the A10 not MEAC.
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I'm not sure either of them are better than Bailey. They might be shinier and newer, but at this level, Bailey is more proven.
Bailey is more proven then Mane, I'm not sure he is more proven then Santos Silva..that kid is a walking double-double. But even if we say he is more proven, on a PURE talent basis, I will take Mane and Santos-Silva over Bailey, and I think Bailey is a decent player.
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True...OR what if you add TWO better players with the remaining scholarships *Cough Mane *cough. *cough Santos-Silva *cough
However, Brews statement was it's never good to lose your best returning player, which is a factual statement UNLESS you do lose him, but replace him with a better player(s).
Something about the bird in hand
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Unless....you can replace him with a better player
I remember when we were gonna replace Sam with a better player (Bailey). How did that work. BB will be a 23 year old player with two year’s of BE experience under his belt. Starter or reserve next year he has real value. Don’t want to lose him.
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I remember when we were gonna replace Sam with a better player (Bailey). How did that work. BB will be a 23 year old player with two year’s of BE experience under his belt. Starter or reserve next year he has real value. Don’t want to lose him.
Outstanding take, Lenny.
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Santos Silva is far more proven.
He plays in the A10 not MEAC.
You may not be aware, but Marquette is in the Big East, a perennial top-3 conference. In his time there, per Pomeroy, VCU has played a top-100 SOS just once, which was last year when they played the 94th toughest SOS. He's not proven at this level and the A-10 is not in the same zip code as the Big East.
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I remember when we were gonna replace Sam with a better player (Bailey). How did that work. BB will be a 23 year old player with two year’s of BE experience under his belt. Starter or reserve next year he has real value. Don’t want to lose him.
Sure, I'd rather not lose him either, the ideal scenario for me would be to keep him and add Mane and Santos-Silva with the last two scholarships.
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You may not be aware, but Marquette is in the Big East, a perennial top-3 conference. In his time there, per Pomeroy, VCU has played a top-100 SOS just once, which was last year when they played the 94th toughest SOS. He's not proven at this level and the A-10 is not in the same zip code as the Big East.
I think the only one unaware is you lol.
I am well aware of what league Marquette is in and I am well aware that Santos has proven far more.
Its really not even close.
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I think the only one unaware is you lol.
I am well aware of what league Marquette is in and I am well aware that Santos has proven far more.
Its really not even close.
I think Santos-Silva would be a good get. I also recognize that he put up 13/9 in the same league Joseph Chartouny put up 12/5/5. He's proven nothing at this level.
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FWIW, BB has been on both zoom calls that MU posted on social media since he declared.
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Santos-Silva in 6 games vs Tennessee, Purdue, Wichita State, LSU and Dayton
14.8 pts 9.5 rebounds 60% field goals
Yeah, not proven!!
The wichita game was the only one where he didnt hit double digits in either pts or rebounds( 7 and 7) and didnt shoot 50%(3/7). Foul trouble got him that game.
I want Bailey to stay here. But I will trust Santos-Silva all day over Bailey to give me a consistent performance.
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Santos-Silva in 6 games vs Tennessee, Purdue, Wichita State, LSU and Dayton
14.8 pts 9.5 rebounds 60% field goals
Yeah, not proven!!
Chartouny put up 10.2 ppg/3 apg/4 spg in 6 games against FSU, WVU, Davidson, URI, & St Bonaventure (all tourney teams) his last year at Fordham.
So you are correct, not proven. Not at this level. Thank you for admitting it.
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I think Santos-Silva would be a good get. I also recognize that he put up 13/9 in the same league Joseph Chartouny put up 12/5/5. He's proven nothing at this level.
To be fair though Brew, he put up 22-11 against Tennessee this past season, 19-2 against Purdue and 19-11 against LSU. Not to mention he had 12-17 and 12-9 against Obi Toppin this year as well.
The year before he had 6-12 against St. John's, 12-16 vs. Texas, 8-10 against Virginia, and then for good measure had a game of 26-22 against Rhode Island. So he has shown out against high major competition in a big way. Chartouny never did that.
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Chartouny put up 10.2 ppg/3 apg/4 spg in 6 games against FSU, WVU, Davidson, URI, & St Bonaventure (all tourney teams) his last year at Fordham.
So you are correct, not proven. Not at this level. Thank you for admitting it.
Chartouny also shot 13/44 in those games.
So yeah, keep trying what aint working.
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Chartouny put up 10.2 ppg/3 apg/4 spg in 6 games against FSU, WVU, Davidson, URI, & St Bonaventure (all tourney teams) his last year at Fordham.
So you are correct, not proven. Not at this level. Thank you for admitting it.
Santos-Silva vs the 5 best A10 teams last year not named Dayton(we already saw he ate vs them)
Richmond: 14 and 10 on 50% in 2 games
St. Louis: 11 and 6 83% in 1 game
Rhode Island: 9 and 9 47% in 2 games
St Bonnies 17 and 11 75% 1 game
Duquense: 24 and 8 64% in 1 game
14 ppg 9 rebounds ppg total
His numbers are weighted down by playing the trash teams.
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Now we're trying to compare Rhode Island, SLU, and Richmond to Villanova, Seton Hall, and Providence? Not exactly helping the argument.
Further demonstrating my point. Thanks again.
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Now we're trying to compare Rhode Island, SLU, and Richmond to Villanova, Seton Hall, and Providence? Not exactly helping the argument.
Further demonstrating my point. Thanks again.
HAHAHA my god are you dumb
Not once was that stated. Excellent back track tho.
But lets keep playing for fun. Bailey agsinst those teams
Nova: 1 ppg 2 rb 0/8 from the field
Seton Hall:4.5 ppg 9 rb 3/17 from the field
Providence: 9.5 ppg and 5 rb 5/10 from the field
4.8 ppg 5.3 rb 23% from the floor.
Yeah Bailey was really proven against those great teams. He had 1 really good game out of 6. And happened to miss the tying free throw in that game.
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HAHAHA my god are you dumb
Not once was that stated. Excellent back track tho.
But lets keep playing for fun. Bailey agsinst those teams
Nova: 1 ppg 2 rb 0/8 from the field
Seton Hall:4.5 ppg 9 rb 3/17 from the field
Providence: 9.5 ppg and 5 rb 5/10 from the field
4.8 ppg 5.3 rb 23% from the floor.
Yeah Bailey was really proven against those great teams. He had 1 really good game out of 6. And happened to miss the tying free throw in that game.
Not sure how you comparing the next non-one-seed teams in the A-10 to the non-one-seed teams in the Big East is backtracking, it's just false equivalence on your part.
And no matter what you might say, Bailey is pretty clearly our best returning player. Maybe that says something about the state of the program. Maybe that says something about recruiting or player development. But he played against Big East teams. Santos-Silva didn't. That's not a debatable point. It's just facts.
Maybe MSS would be great in the Big East. Maybe he'd be Chartouny v2.0. Until we're on a shorter list it's not really relevant. Certainly no more relevant than trying to hype up stats against Duquesne and St. Bonaventure teams that were worse according to kenpom than literally every team in the Big East.
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Not sure how you comparing the next non-one-seed teams in the A-10 to the non-one-seed teams in the Big East is backtracking, it's just false equivalence on your part.
And no matter what you might say, Bailey is pretty clearly our best returning player. Maybe that says something about the state of the program. Maybe that says something about recruiting or player development. But he played against Big East teams. Santos-Silva didn't. That's not a debatable point. It's just facts.
Maybe MSS would be great in the Big East. Maybe he'd be Chartouny v2.0. Until we're on a shorter list it's not really relevant. Certainly no more relevant than trying to hype up stats against Duquesne and St. Bonaventure teams that were worse according to kenpom than literally every team in the Big East.
I didn't compare anything. You brought up the teams. You said MSS wasnt proven. He is proven.
His stats get better the better the competition. That is a fact(since you want to play the fact game). He was at his best in non con games. He was at his best when playing the top teams in the A10.
This caused you to spiral. You then reference Chartouny who shot 29% in the games you referenced. And in those games you referenced unlike MSS his stat line was worse than his season averages. Once again, better implying a decline.
MSS has proven himself against good competition.
Never once did I say Bailey wasn't our best returning player, once again you are back tracking because the facts prove your initial comment idiotic.
The numbers never lie.
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I didn't compare anything. You brought up the teams. You said MSS wasnt proven. He is proven.
His stats get better the better the competition. That is a fact(since you want to play the fact game). He was at his best in non con games. He was at his best when playing the top teams in the A10.
This caused you to spiral. You then reference Chartouny who shot 29% in the games you referenced. And in those games you referenced unlike MSS his stat line was worse than his season averages. Once again, better implying a decline.
MSS has proven himself against good competition.
Never once did I say Bailey wasn't our best returning player, once again you are back tracking because the facts prove your initial comment idiotic.
The numbers never lie.
You brought up the team by citing the specific teams in the A-10 as evidence that he is proven at the Big East level. I provided appropriate context with the equally in-league Big East teams by rank. You brought up those teams, even if indirectly.
If he gets better in the best games, then how do you explain that in all games, MSS had an offensive rating of 106.5, against conference opponents it drops to 104.0, against Tier A+B opponents it drops to 103.4, and against Tier A only it drops all the way to 96.1.
If the number aren't lying, does that mean you are?
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You brought up the team by citing the specific teams in the A-10 as evidence that he is proven at the Big East level. I provided appropriate context with the equally in-league Big East teams by rank. You brought up those teams, even if indirectly.
If he gets better in the best games, then how do you explain that in all games, MSS had an offensive rating of 106.5, against conference opponents it drops to 104.0, against Tier A+B opponents it drops to 103.4, and against Tier A only it drops all the way to 96.1.
If the number aren't lying, does that mean you are?
Because YOU said that he wasn't proven. I proved what he has proven. His averages and FG% both go up against the better competition whether it is non con or A10 top tier teams.
The numbers I supported do not lie. They are factual numbers. So no, I am not lying. The only lie was your implication that I stated Bailey was not our best returning player(never said he was or wasn't).
Better yet. You think if Bailey went into the transfer portal he would have more/more impressive suitors than MSS??? Laughable.
MSS has proven more on a D1 basketball court. That is unarguable.
Take the L and move on.
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Really weird argument that no one can win IMO, because "proven" doesn't have a metric. Also don't really understand the comparison because if MSS were to come here and Bailey withdrew his name from the draft they wouldn't really be competing against each other for minutes so one can be "more proven" but have a lesser impact on the team because of the differing position, and how they would be utilized within Wojo's offense.
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I didn't compare anything. You brought up the teams. You said MSS wasnt proven. He is proven.
His stats get better the better the competition. That is a fact(since you want to play the fact game). He was at his best in non con games. He was at his best when playing the top teams in the A10.
This caused you to spiral. You then reference Chartouny who shot 29% in the games you referenced. And in those games you referenced unlike MSS his stat line was worse than his season averages. Once again, better implying a decline.
MSS has proven himself against good competition.
Never once did I say Bailey wasn't our best returning player, once again you are back tracking because the facts prove your initial comment idiotic.
The numbers never lie.
Numbers can lie all the time and this is from someone that trusts them far more than the eye test
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Sure, I'd rather not lose him either, the ideal scenario for me would be to keep him and add Mane and Santos-Silva with the last two scholarships.
Mane and Santos-Silva Francis Okoro, my ideal scenario
Let's have someone ready to go at the five when Theo moves on.
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Mane will not be at Marquette.
https://twitter.com/BenSteeleMJS/status/1253410095242768384
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Mane will not be at Marquette.
https://twitter.com/BenSteeleMJS/status/1253410095242768384
Both Ben and you are not interpreting this correctly. He says flat out in the article that he may decide not to stay in and lists Marquette among those where he could go.
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Mane will not be at Marquette.
https://twitter.com/BenSteeleMJS/status/1253410095242768384
Unless Ben knows something not in the article, he is a little off on his reading comprehension. Wrong thread too. Too much Horsey sauce?
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Too much Horsey sauce?
There is no such thing.
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Baileys Instagram post mean he’s coming back?
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Baileys Instagram post mean he’s coming back?
What Instagram post?
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What Instagram post?
He posted an image of himself dunking with just an exclamation point as the comment.
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Bailey not coming back per Ben Steele.
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Bailey not coming back per Ben Steele.
Pro ball somewhere? Transfer portal? Another Mormon mission?
Going pro it is!
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Bailey not coming back per Ben Steele.
Best of luck to him. Sucks for us.
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Best of luck to him. Sucks for us.
He's just a guy. If the team's gonna suck next year I'd rather see Oso and Lewis than watch Bailey fade in and out of games.
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https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2020/05/22/brendan-bailey-wont-return-marquette/5244747002/
“After counseling with my family, I have decided to forgo my junior and senior years and pursue a career in professional basketball. This has always been a dream of mine and Marquette has helped prepare me to make this dream a reality. Thank you Marquette, you will always have a special place in my heart.”
Gotta be overseas. Go make that $$$
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He's just a guy. If the team's gonna suck next year I'd rather see Oso and Lewis than watch Bailey fade in and out of games.
This. Good luck to him in Europe.
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Best of luck to him. Sucks for us.
Agreed, best to him. If we don't have DJ also, are we as good as DePaul? It will be tough to get to .500.
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I’m sure I will be in the minority here, but I don’t think this will hurt us that much. We are stacked at his position with the new players, and let’s be honest, he has a ton of potential but he was clearly worse than Jamal last year.
I’m excited to see Jamal finally get extended minutes.
Also does anyone think this opens the door to another grad transfer like that guy from Indiana? Maybe we’ll see the program connected with more transfers starting ASAP
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https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2020/05/22/brendan-bailey-wont-return-marquette/5244747002/
“After counseling with my family, I have decided to forgo my junior and senior years and pursue a career in professional basketball. This has always been a dream of mine and Marquette has helped prepare me to make this dream a reality. Thank you Marquette, you will always have a special place in my heart.”
Gotta be overseas. Go make that $$$
Yes the official plan if nothing interesting NBA going to Europe
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Hope he gets his degree in the future, will probably need it. BB is not a ball handler, is very thin in build and is a stand alone jump shooter. His lack of driving to the basket is reflected in his taking a total of 20 free throw attempts in 30 games, in which he made 12 of them for 60%. I was hoping he would stay, but someone planted something in his ear about living his dream.
Shame, but that means Justin Lewis hopefully gets more playing time now.
I look forward to Hermie providing us with BB's boxscore statistic's from an Indonesian League or something similar.
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Losing him is a push for sure. Could easily find a juco transfer with better talent and certainly tougher. Guy was snuggle soft.
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I’m sure I will be in the minority here, but I don’t think this will hurt us that much. We are stacked at his position with the new players, and let’s be honest, he has a ton of potential but he was clearly worse than Jamal last year.
I’m excited to see Jamal finally get extended minutes.
Also does anyone think this opens the door to another grad transfer like that guy from Indiana? Maybe we’ll see the program connected with more transfers starting ASAP
"hurt us that much" is a very relative term but I agree. It's not like we were projected to be in the NCAA with him. But he was a good defender and this will hurt MU. This could move us to about 60 in the power rankings.
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If Bailey is going pro,
I am fully expecting an announcement from left field....... Rob Frozena pursuing options in europe?
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I’m sure I will be in the minority here, but I don’t think this will hurt us that much. We are stacked at his position with the new players, and let’s be honest, he has a ton of potential but he was clearly worse than Jamal last year.
I'm sure it'll hurt just based on having one fewer experienced player, but I think you're right - if Cain can step up and Garcia shows the ability to produce from day one, it'll be a pluggable hole. Not to mention Lewis and Osa and what they could bring.
Can't really fault Bailey on this decision. He's old in basketball years, and this coming season is filled with uncertainty. Also, as a Mormon, his motivations are likely a bit different than the average player's. Best of luck to him, wherever he ends up.
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Just a hunch, would not be surprised to see MU now get heavily involved with Justin Smith
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We never get old. We always stay young.
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1. Most likely there will be NCAA basketball next year, but if you're 23 can you take any chance it doesn't happen?
2. When your biggest problem is inconsistency isn't doing basketball fulltime your best bet?
3. A schollie for Tommy Gardiner? (Yes, Justin Smith would be better.)
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If Bailey is going pro,
I am fully expecting an announcement from left field....... Rob Frozena pursuing options in europe?
Ha Ha! Making fun of a guy who turned down many other options to try and make your favorite basketball team better! Good for you. Your Mom must be so proud.
Losing him is a push for sure. Could easily find a juco transfer with better talent and certainly tougher. Guy was snuggle soft.
Great idea. Who specifically do you have in mind? How many JUCOs are still available for next year?
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I by no means meant to make fun of rob frozena
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I guess he won’t be a Marquette legend
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I guess he won’t be a Marquette legend
I believe Cheeks returns from exile soon to debate this.
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You guys saying 'no big deal', BB was slotted as our 2nd best player next year... and that is IF Carton catches his waiver.
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Too bad. A net loss for the program. Good luck, young man.
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I’d like some of what he’s smoking. Good luck, young man.
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You guys saying 'no big deal', BB was slotted as our 2nd best player next year... and that is IF Carton catches his waiver.
Right. More an indictment of how bad we’ll be next year without Carton than anything, but yah. This is a better team with BB. Back to needing to add.
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David Woods
@DavidWoods007
·
28s
BREAKING: Jordan Tucker not returning to #Butler and will stay in NBA draft pool. This was long expected.
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https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2020/05/22/brendan-bailey-wont-return-marquette/5244747002/
“After counseling with my family, I have decided to forgo my junior and senior years and pursue a career in professional basketball. This has always been a dream of mine and Marquette has helped prepare me to make this dream a reality. Thank you Marquette, you will always have a special place in my heart.”
Gotta be overseas. Go make that $$$
I'm not that surprised. He spent two years on his mission and had (relative) freedom and was independent. He came back, went to college and may have chafed at the structure and limitations, and decided he didn't want that and just wanted to play ball. It's common among those who return from their missions. Does anyone know if he got engaged or married while on his mission? That's another factor in kids who leave after coming back.
His dad has a lot of connections and will help him get hooked up somewhere in Europe.
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Wish him the best.
Those who've been clamoring that Jamal get more playing time may get your wish.
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Wish him the best.
Those who've been clamoring that Jamal get more playing time may get your wish.
Jamal and Greg show is no longer just for social media
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I’d like some of what he’s smoking. Good luck, young man.
+1, he's Jamaican me crazy!
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Bailey saw the handwriting on the wall. The three incoming freshman are more talented than him. Plain and simple.
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Man I was so excited to see what the Markus Sam Bailey class would do... didn't think a two year mission, senior year transfer, and all time leading scorer resulting in two first round whimpers and likely a third were going to be the result.
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Bailey saw the handwriting on the wall. The three incoming freshman are more talented than him. Plain and simple.
Not really
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I'm not that surprised. He spent two years on his mission and had (relative) freedom and was independent. He came back, went to college and may have chafed at the structure and limitations, and decided he didn't want that and just wanted to play ball. It's common among those who return from their missions. Does anyone know if he got engaged or married while on his mission? That's another factor in kids who leave after coming back.
His dad has a lot of connections and will help him get hooked up somewhere in Europe.
Don’t forget Stan leaving.
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Not really
don't you know, now that he's left he sucked. It's the way it is with too many fans.
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Makes perfect sense for Bailey. He'll get paid to play basketball during his basketball playing years. Smart.
But this math was there 5 years ago. We had to know the odds of carrying a 23 year old junior and a 24 year old senior were low. Getting old continues to be a problem for us. Roster management is an issue.
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Best of luck to him. Sucks for us.
Why does it suck for us. What about all the commotion when Hausers left? Remember all the posts about if a guy does not want to be here, then good riddance? There are adequate replacements for Bailey. He would not have been a difference maker. Good luck to him, but his pro career will be overseas, not the NBA.
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for what its worth, rivals writer based in Utah said Bailey will be going pro regardless
Bump
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Makes perfect sense for Bailey. He'll get paid to play basketball during his basketball playing years. Smart.
But this math was there 5 years ago. We had to know the odds of carrying a 23 year old junior and a 24 year old senior were low. Getting old continues to be a problem for us. Roster management is an issue.
The key to getting old is not having really good players who leave too soon, or not good enough ones who transfer out, but having okay ones who develop and stay 4 years. it's easiest to accomplish when you only aim to have a really good team once every four years.
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Makes perfect sense for Bailey. He'll get paid to play basketball during his basketball playing years. Smart.
But this math was there 5 years ago. We had to know the odds of carrying a 23 year old junior and a 24 year old senior were low. Getting old continues to be a problem for us. Roster management is an issue.
+1
Never thought he would become a Marquette “all timer” - he left with mediocre numbers - so he was gone early either way.
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T-Rank already updated MU without Bailey and dropped from 62 to 77
If Carton doesn’t get a waiver we tumble to 102
I personally will miss Bailey. Was putting it together in spurts & always had high ceiling. Would have loved to see him take on more of a load this season. Wish him the best!
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I by no means meant to make fun of rob frozena
We have an honest to God, "I don't give a shyte" bad boy on our hands.
Not capitalizing "rob frozena" went a bit too far, though.
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We have an honest to God, "I don't give a shyte" bad boy on our hands.
Not capitalizing "rob frozena" went a bit too far, though.
ee cumings-like?
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He'll be missed, but really, really excited to see the newcomers.
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He and his handlers must not think he can play in the NBA.....ever. If he stays at MU and has a good year or two, he has a chance. With this, I certainly don't see him getting drafted and I don't see even a G-league offer. He'll go to Europe and make bucks, which is good for him if that's what he wants.
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He's going to be a 22 year old junior, let him enjoy Europe and make a living.
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He'll be missed, but really, really excited to see the newcomers.
Unfortunately, I think that's all there is going to be to look forward to this year. They were a borderline NCAA tourney time the way it is, now with Brendan leaving I don't see it. They really need to bring in another eligible player for this year. Unfortunately, not much out there. I hope they prove me wrong and somehow get in the tourney, but I'm not sure that's going to happen.
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This thought did just cross my mind though....Could there actually be an NBA GM out there who would throw Thurl or owe Thurl such a huge favor that he would actually sacrifice his 2nd round pick to take Brendan and let him ride the bench? Anything is possible I guess.
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I'm not that surprised. He spent two years on his mission and had (relative) freedom and was independent. He came back, went to college and may have chafed at the structure and limitations, and decided he didn't want that and just wanted to play ball. It's common among those who return from their missions. Does anyone know if he got engaged or married while on his mission? That's another factor in kids who leave after coming back.
His dad has a lot of connections and will help him get hooked up somewhere in Europe.
You obviously don’t know much about Mormon missions if you think it’s a ton of freedom and that being in college is more structured.
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Unfortunately, I think that's all there is going to be to look forward to this year. They were a borderline NCAA tourney time the way it is, now with Brendan leaving I don't see it. They really need to bring in another eligible player for this year. Unfortunately, not much out there. I hope they prove me wrong and somehow get in the tourney, but I'm not sure that's going to happen.
This is when I enjoy Marquette basketball the most. Some talented, untested players who could surprise everyone. Just enjoy the game.
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See Juan
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Why does it suck for us. What about all the commotion when Hausers left? Remember all the posts about if a guy does not want to be here, then good riddance? There are adequate replacements for Bailey. He would not have been a difference maker. Good luck to him, but his pro career will be overseas, not the NBA.
we were a top ten team with the Hausers. Without them an 8-10 Big East team.
Bailey, after having not played in two years, was our fourth leading scorer on a team with a shoot first, second and third player and would be our second leading returning scorer. He was our second leading rebounder too (top returner). This is a significant loss.
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You obviously don’t know much about Mormon missions if you think it’s a ton of freedom and that being in college is more structured.
You're only allowed to call home on Christmas and Mother's Day and no TV or movies but everything else is just a free for all. It's been called the original Traveling Cocaine Circus.
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we were a top ten team with the Hausers. Without them an 8-10 Big East team.
Bailey, after having not played in two years, was our fourth leading scorer on a team with a shoot first, second and third player and would be our second leading returning scorer. He was our second leading rebounder too (top returner). This is a significant loss.
It doesn't help.
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Good luck Brenden. I will always remember the butler game when he got to hear the roof pop off of the fiserv for the first time.
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T-Rank already updated MU without Bailey and dropped from 62 to 77
If Carton doesn’t get a waiver we tumble to 102
I personally will miss Bailey. Was putting it together in spurts & always had high ceiling. Would have loved to see him take on more of a load this season. Wish him the best!
Lol T-rank is not gospel, man. Just let it go. We will be fine
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Next man up, aina?
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This thought did just cross my mind though....Could there actually be an NBA GM out there who would throw Thurl or owe Thurl such a huge favor that he would actually sacrifice his 2nd round pick to take offer Brendan a spot on his team's summer league team and camp invite and let him ride the bench? Anything is possible I guess.
FIFY
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You're only allowed to call home on Christmas and Mother's Day and no TV or movies but everything else is just a free for all. It's been called the original Traveling Cocaine Circus.
Michael Jordan laughed.
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Good luck to Brendan, but even a Euro pro league is going to be looking for more sonsistency than he showed for us last year - multiple games in absentia.
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Maebee heel pull a Juan, aina?
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Weird decision overall. I'm more clueless on this one then Blue.
I guess we will have another year full of excuses.
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Maebee heel pull a Juan, aina?
Honestly, maybe.
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Weird decision overall. I'm more clueless on this one then Blue.
I guess we will have another year full of excuses.
Whatd you really expect. Sadly it was lookin like a bubble ncca at best team. Who knows when we will have a good start to.finish year again. 7 years and counting
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He's just a guy. If the team's gonna suck next year I'd rather see Oso and Lewis than watch Bailey fade in and out of games.
I agree with this analysis. I'm actually glad he's moved on.
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He's just a guy. If the team's gonna suck next year I'd rather see Oso and Lewis than watch Bailey fade in and out of games.
Im with you. Soft, inconsistent. Radio color man Tony Smith often pointed out during games that Bailey was rushed on the shot, bad footwork. Made some plays, sure. Decent game now & then, but just a guy.
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Weird decision overall. I'm more clueless on this one then Blue.
If he leaves now, he ends up in Europe.
If he leaves in two years, he ends up in Europe but with two less years of salary.
If his goal is to make a living playing ball, then it's not a bad plan.
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Whatd you really expect. Sadly it was lookin like a bubble ncca at best team. Who knows when we will have a good start to.finish year again. 7 years and counting
5 years to judge is gunna turn into 10 real quick.
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Two bad Woj wasted tyme and effort heer, hey?
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If he leaves now, he ends up in Europe.
If he leaves in two years, he ends up in Europe but with two less years of salary.
If his goal is to make a living playing ball, then it's not a bad plan.
If he leaves in two years (at 25) and hasn’t significantly improved, Europe (despite his family pedigree/connections) might no longer present an option.
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He can always go back and finish his education I guess. No harm in taking a shot
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He can always go back and finish his education I guess. No harm in taking a shot
There are very few high level d1 athletes who are in anyway concerned with education .
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Two bad Woj wasted tyme and effort heer, hey?
\
Trust the process. Respect the process. Everything is going according to plan as illuminated in the Golden Power Point. It's all about trajectory.
At any rate, Woj probably has three more years here. Dawson, Oso, Lewis will probably determine his fate. Brendan being gone will actually help these guys get more game reps to build for the future. Let's hope 6 years of head coaching experience will now have Wojo up to the task.
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Thinks he is better than he really is. His game has lots of holes in it.
Mentioned earlier--Next Man Up.
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Thinks he is better than he really is. His game has lots of holes in it.
Mentioned earlier--Next Man Up.
I don’t think he thinks he’s better than he is.
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Thinks he is better than he really is. His game has lots of holes in it.
Mentioned earlier--Next Man Up.
This is what's concerning...I'm not nearly confident enough in Cain taking on a larger role, and as talented as the Freshman are, they are Freshman. I had felt they were still one good piece away from being a SOLID tournament team(bubble as currently constructed with Bailey)..Now, without him, I don't see them sniffing the tourney. I hope Wojo has something figured out(probably hoping for an Etienne reclass, but if he doesn't hope he has a back up plan) or it's going to be an ugly year I think, but I'd love for them to prove me wrong.
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I think this is his best move as age is a factor. Dad can probably get him somewhere overseas. Good luck Brendan
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7 years and counting
And the beat goes on.
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Totally understandable move. I wish he were coming back, but not stunned at all.
This also is why folks shouldn't have been worrying about us signing too many guys. ABR.
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This is what's concerning...I'm not nearly confident enough in Cain taking on a larger role, and as talented as the Freshman are, they are Freshman. I had felt they were still one good piece away from being a SOLID tournament team(bubble as currently constructed with Bailey)..Now, without him, I don't see them sniffing the tourney. I hope Wojo has something figured out(probably hoping for an Etienne reclass, but if he doesn't hope he has a back up plan) or it's going to be an ugly year I think, but I'd love for them to prove me wrong.
Bailey wasn't any better than Cain - he just got the starting nod and a longer leash. Hard to know how players will develop this summer with COVID and not having traditional access to training/gym, but time for Jamal to step up and seize the huge opportunity in front of him. I think he'll be up to the task. High character, hard-working kid with a very good athleticism and good shot.
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Not so surprised, with his age and the freshmen coming in that play his position. He would likely start, but could ultimately see lesser minutes. He doesn’t want, at his age, to lose a year to transfer. And, he dad may have connections. Seems like a decent time to move on. I wish him the best, and that he gets a degree (preferably from MU) in the future.
On another note, I hope his departure offers more playing time to the new guys than it does to Cain. I’m in the group that believes that he’s already reached his ceiling...an athletic, sporadically-adequate basketball player. I still see Jamal as a small step up from Trend Blackledge.
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Im with you. Soft, inconsistent. Radio color man Tony Smith often pointed out during games that Bailey was rushed on the shot, bad footwork. Made some plays, sure. Decent game now & then, but just a guy.
Agree with this analysis. He had a golden opportunity with Hauser’s both leaving and was a major disappointment. Hurts depth next year, but nothing other than that.
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Not so surprised, with his age and the freshmen coming in that play his position. He would likely start, but could ultimately see lesser minutes. He doesn’t want, at his age, to lose a year to transfer. And, he dad may have connections. Seems like a decent time to move on. I wish him the best, and that he gets a degree (preferably from MU) in the future.
On another note, I hope his departure offers more playing time to the new guys than it does to Cain. I’m in the group that believes that he’s already reached his ceiling...an athletic, sporadically-adequate basketball player. I still see Jamal as a small step up from Trend Blackledge.
If Carton plays then Cain can be an asset as he is a good wing shooter, better than Bailey. Just has not figured out how to put the ball on the floor without turning it
over. Carton can penetrate and dish. Cain has been through the Big East and is a senior. He might surprise. I can see Akanno getting some minutes now at the 3, or playing
3 guards. Koby, Carton, Akanno, Garcia and Theo. Now if Lewis is ready, Garcia could play the 3. Lots of moving parts.
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Agree with this analysis. He had a golden opportunity with Hauser’s both leaving and was a major disappointment. Hurts depth next year, but nothing other than that.
I would not describe his performance as a major disappointment. Just lacking consistency. He never became a guy that could get the numbers we needed from him on a game-by-game basis. I like Dawson starting at the 4 and Cain at 3 right now.
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I’m sure I will be in the minority here, but I don’t think this will hurt us that much. We are stacked at his position with the new players, and let’s be honest, he has a ton of potential but he was clearly worse than Jamal last year.
I’m excited to see Jamal finally get extended minutes.
Also does anyone think this opens the door to another grad transfer like that guy from Indiana? Maybe we’ll see the program connected with more transfers starting ASAP
Cain had a couple of games last year when he was hitting his three point shot, but he was no where near as good as Bailey.
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If he leaves now, he ends up in Europe.
If he leaves in two years, he ends up in Europe but with two less years of salary.
If his goal is to make a living playing ball, then it's not a bad plan.
Exactly. I don't like it, but that's reality.
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Earlier in the season, I was wondering if Cain was as good or better than Bailey. However, when they both started in the game that Markus missed it became very obvious to me that Bailey was the better player. Seeing them on the floor together showed that Bailey was the better. Of course Cain was playing small forward, but to me it was not even close.
I am sorry to see Bailey leave, but it gives more time to the freshmen. I like Cain, but he is not the future.
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Now, without him, I don't see them sniffing the tourney. I hope Wojo has something figured out(probably hoping for an Etienne reclass, but if he doesn't hope he has a back up plan) or it's going to be an ugly year I think, but I'd love for them to prove me wrong.
Not trying to start a tangent here, just genuinely curious, what would it take to “prove you wrong”? Bubble team? 9 seed? Ranked? I guess what is your definition of ugly year?
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Bailey can certainly make money somewhere. Why not make some money playing a game while you're young if you can? I would. If he develops, he certainly has the size and stroke to make it at higher levels. Could be a Jamil or Juan situation where he fills a slot on a bad team for a while in 2-3 years.
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Not trying to start a tangent here, just genuinely curious, what would it take to “prove you wrong”? Bubble team? 9 seed? Ranked? I guess what is your definition of ugly year?
Comfortably in the tournament(with a good enough seed to not be in Dayton)..By comfortably I mean a lock come Selection Sunday. No bubble conversation. Unfortunately, with this years group I'm seeing a team that doesn't even sniff the tournament. Again, thought they were a bubble team once they landed Carton and thought they still lacked one more really good piece(to be a comfortable tournament team). Now without Bailey(who granted was nothing special, but still a starter), unless something with the roster(that's impactful) changes between now and tip off, I think they might be around a .500 team.
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Bailey can certainly make money somewhere. Why not make some money playing a game while you're young if you can? I would. If he develops, he certainly has the size and stroke to make it at higher levels. Could be a Jamil or Juan situation where he fills a slot on a bad team for a while in 2-3 years.
If Juan Anderson can make the league, no reason to think Bailey can't at some point.
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Who would want to play in Europe?
I live part time in Bergamo, Italy.
1. No MONEY $$$$$$
2. Nobody cares about basketball
3. It's like playing for a Division III in America
4. You like opera and want to see the world
5. You like touring by bus
6. You get to do missionary work for your church
7. For a career in basketball, perhaps. Come back and work as a coach, perhaps.
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Who would want to play in Europe?
I live part time in Bergamo, Italy.
1. No MONEY $$$$$$
2. Nobody cares about basketball
3. It's like playing for a Division III in America
4. You like opera and want to see the world
5. You like touring by bus
6. You get to do missionary work for your church
7. For a career in basketball, perhaps. Come back and work as a coach, perhaps.
This isn't accurate on a number of levels. The top players in Italy's top league make six figures and is one of the better leagues in Europe. Much higher quality than D3.
Bailey won't be in that league though. Not good enough. He'll either be in the G-League or toiling away in Armenia hoping his paycheck doesn't bounce.
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Good luck to Bailey.
I'm surprised at the number of low level prospects turning pro during a global pandemic. The major pro sports are struggling to navigate these waters. My hunch is lower leagues won't have seasons and some of these leagues might never come back. I don't foresee many opportunities for players like Bailey.
As for how this impacts Marquette, Bailey is only a slight step up from Cain. Bailey is loss from a numbers perspective and we'll never know if he would have made a leap. But between Cain, more PT for Lewis & Oso, and 3 guard lineups with McEwen at the 3, MU can replace Bailey's production.
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This is a great summary of BB. He's very replaceable. Good luck to him.
Good luck to Bailey.
I'm surprised at the number of low level prospects turning pro during a global pandemic. The major pro sports are struggling to navigate these waters. My hunch is lower leagues won't have seasons and some of these leagues might never come back. I don't foresee many opportunities for players like Bailey.
As for how this impacts Marquette, Bailey is only a slight step up from Cain. Bailey is loss from a numbers perspective and we'll never know if he would have made a leap. But between Cain, more PT for Lewis & Oso, and 3 guard lineups with McEwen at the 3, MU can replace Bailey's production.
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Worst part of Bailey leaving is only 10 guys on scholarship. If Carton doesn’t get a waiver, depth and experience is really stressed then. Then you live in fear of a player or two going down with an injury, which is almost inevitable over course of a season. It’s a tenuous situation right now.
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Next year looking like O’Neill’s with his first recruiting class. What does Wojo do to chase these guys away? Not missing much anyways. So many years into the Wojo era, still no wins in tourney - none in the immediate horizon. Still relying on transfers. Sad!
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Worst part of Bailey leaving is only 10 guys on scholarship. If Carton doesn’t get a waiver, depth and experience is really stressed then. Then you live in fear of a player or two going down with an injury, which is almost inevitable over course of a season. It’s a tenuous situation right now.
This is why I have said all along, they still need(ed) one more good player to be a viable tournament team and to hedge on Carton not getting a waiver and Bailey leaving(which he has now). Unfortunately, unless there is a surprise 2020 reclass or a big time transfer still hits the market(doubtful) that really good player simply isn't available. Though I am quite intrigued by PJ Horne who hit the transfer market late last night...grad transfer so immediately eligible. 35% 3 point shooter, not spectacular but not significantly less than Bailey.
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Who would want to play in Europe?
I live part time in Bergamo, Italy.
1. No MONEY $$$$$$
It's not hard to earn six figures in the better Euro leagues or Austrailia. It's often tax-free and players' housing costs are usually covered.
Whether BB can land in one of the better leagues remains to be seen, but if he does, he'll earn good money.
It goes without saying that he'll make a lot more going pro now than returning to MU. And it's not as if he's going to rocket up draft boards as a 23-year-old by having a good junior season.
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I wish Bailey were coming back. Those who just dismiss his departure as a numbers thing have pretty short memories. They have forgotten how much Vander improved between his soph and junior seasons, how much Junior improved between his junior and senior seasons, how much Rowsey improved between his junior and senior seasons, etc etc etc. A lot of players improve. Some don't, but to assume that Bailey reached his peak last year is just silly.
As for next season for our Warriors, I guess we should just book 16-15 and 9th place. Why even bother watching or cheering or hoping. The computers are always right, so why even waste our time?
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Y'all are assumin' Europe. Could bee playin' four da fookin' Wuhan Weasels, aina?
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I wish Bailey were coming back. Those who just dismiss his departure as a numbers thing have pretty short memories. They have forgotten how much Vander improved between his soph and junior seasons, how much Junior improved between his junior and senior seasons, how much Rowsey improved between his junior and senior seasons, etc etc etc. A lot of players improve. Some don't, but to assume that Bailey reached his peak last year is just silly.?
It's not so much a matter of whether he'll improve or not. I think he likely would. But he's 23 in a few weeks, so any improvement short of astronomical likely wouldn't move the needle on his NBA draft stock or professional prospects. Pro scouts aren't going to be wowed by a 23-year-old outplaying kids 3-5 years younger.
So, his choices were either to 1) leave now, earn a little money this year and try to grind his way through the lower levels of professional ball or 2) stay another year, earn no money and then try to grind his way through the lower levels of professional ball.
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Y'all are assumin' Europe. Could bee playin' four da fookin' Wuhan Weasels, aina?
Not likely good enough.
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My biggest issue with Bailey, much like it was with Sacar was the maddening inconsistency. Show up big time for a game here or there, then just disappear for the rest. So while both of them improved during their time at MU, it was largely hidden behind the inconsistencies.
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Lol T-rank is not gospel, man. Just let it go. We will be fine
Triggered
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Though I am quite intrigued by PJ Horne who hit the transfer market late last night...grad transfer so immediately eligible. 35% 3 point shooter, not spectacular but not significantly less than Bailey.
^yes, please to Horne
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^yes, please to Horne
I agree. He earned some decent minutes on good Virginia Tech teams. Became a regular rotation piece as a freshman and was getting a lot of time as a sophomore before his injury. While he's average from an efficiency perspective, where he excels fits the team well. Pick and Roll, Spot-ups, Catch and Shoot, and on the other end he's an excellent PnR defender. Worth a look as we now could use another contributor on the wing.
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It's not so much a matter of whether he'll improve or not. I think he likely would. But he's 23 in a few weeks, so any improvement short of astronomical likely wouldn't move the needle on his NBA draft stock or professional prospects. Pro scouts aren't going to be wowed by a 23-year-old outplaying kids 3-5 years younger.
So, his choices were either to 1) leave now, earn a little money this year and try to grind his way through the lower levels of professional ball or 2) stay another year, earn no money and then try to grind his way through the lower levels of professional ball.
I agree, Pak. These are 2 different issues. I don't blame Bailey for leaving for the very reason you state. All I said is that I wish, for MU's sake, that he were coming back because I think he likely would have been better than last season and our team could have used his skills.
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In Europe he's a 2nd division or bad league player at best. China wants stars so no chance there. Middle east, Philippines, Japan, SE Asia are possibilities. These guys get housing plus $3-5k/month during the season. Not going to get rich but get paid to play the game. Australia is another place he'd fit but the money there is also small unless you're one of the top 3 players on the team and he would not be.
You can earn more by doing summer camps and private coaching and stuff like that. It's not an easy life. I know a few guys who did it for a few years. Most end up leveraging some connection into a sales job or into coaching if they want a few more years of travel and bad pay.
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I don’t think money is a gigantic issue for Bailey.
I also think there are plenty of options to make “enough” money for guys who were good enough to play in high major basketball. There are plenty of D2 and D3 kids who are able to play professionally overseas after they graduate. I mean look at some of the “all star” professional teams Marquette has played on their overseas exhibition games that we beat by like 60. He’ll have plenty of options to play. He’s much better than just about all those guys.
And if he’s not making enough to live I feel confident he has enough family connections to come home and get some kind of entry level job either coaching or administrative if he wants to.
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Bailey is the exact type of player that shows why NIL is needed. If he could make money as one of the faces of the program for the next two years, he might not have to chase dollars overseas. I'm not even sure his standard of living will be that much better playing in Europe, but the allure of an actual paycheck could be mitigated with donors willing to persuade him to stick around.
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Bailey is the exact type of player that shows why NIL is needed. If he could make money as one of the faces of the program for the next two years, he might not have to chase dollars overseas. I'm not even sure his standard of living will be that much better playing in Europe, but the allure of an actual paycheck could be mitigated with donors willing to persuade him to stick around.
I don’t disagree with the notion. In Bailey’s case, I simply think it’s age
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Y'all are assumin' Europe. Could bee playin' four da fookin' Wuhan Weasels, aina?
I’m pretty sure its the Wuhan Bats.
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I don’t disagree with the notion. In Bailey’s case, I simply think it’s age
If there was the ability to give him a paycheck and he was able to put more in the bank by staying than he does by leaving, I think Marquette would have a strong case to keep him. Especially as a likely featured player on the team. That would allow him to increase his worth now and make him a more valuable commodity when he enters the professional ranks.
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Bailey is the exact type of player that shows why NIL is needed. If he could make money as one of the faces of the program for the next two years, he might not have to chase dollars overseas. I'm not even sure his standard of living will be that much better playing in Europe, but the allure of an actual paycheck could be mitigated with donors willing to persuade him to stick around.
BB seemed to give all for MU. I wish him all the best. To think he's a money making player at MU speaks to the sad state of things at MU. I truly hope Wojo earns an extention but it's beginning to look like the beginning of the end of his time.
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Disagree, I think the next recruiting cycle will tell if Wojo is back for a few more years. Needs to add 3 or 4 good players as he did this year. if he does that he will be fine. He is in on a lot of kids for next year, so we will see.
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Comfortably in the tournament(with a good enough seed to not be in Dayton)..By comfortably I mean a lock come Selection Sunday. No bubble conversation. Unfortunately, with this years group I'm seeing a team that doesn't even sniff the tournament. Again, thought they were a bubble team once they landed Carton and thought they still lacked one more really good piece(to be a comfortable tournament team). Now without Bailey(who granted was nothing special, but still a starter), unless something with the roster(that's impactful) changes between now and tip off, I think they might be around a .500 team.
Our lineup next year is going to resemble something close to what is a typical lineup for Providence in recent years. That is, a bunch of good sized physical guys with medium skills. Last year Cooley was able to coax 19 wins and , most importantly , 12 conference wins out of that kind of talent pool .
The question for 2020-21 season is does Wojo have the coaching skills to make the whole greater than the sum of the parts. Wojo is now in his 7th year and ,hopefully for the MU faithful, the answer is yes.
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Not a great look for the program if arguably our best returning player leaving has people saying he won't be missed. There were calls to drop him from the starting lineup during our second annual free fall, so I get it. Still, the only other guy that had a case for being our best returning player was Koby, and there's a thread about him if people want to see what the fanbase thinks.
It is a loss, though. Like all of Wojo's role players, Bailey showed flashes (Maryland) but was woefully inconsistent, disappearing for games at a time. If we're going to continue the upward trajectory under Wojo (even though we were worse last year than the year before...I guess Brendan didn't replace the Hausers after all?), then he needs to do a better job of developing players. Bailey seemed like the best bet to take a leap next year, but he's gone now, and unfortunately didn't become an all-timer. Luckily we've got three forwards coming in. Hopefully they'll be able to grab the minutes Bailey left, because Cain, while immensely athletic, has a very low basketball IQ.
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Not a great look for the program if arguably our best returning player leaving has people saying he won't be missed. There were calls to drop him from the starting lineup during our second annual free fall, so I get it. Still, the only other guy that had a case for being our best returning player was Koby, and there's a thread about him if people want to see what the fanbase thinks.
It is a loss, though. Like all of Wojo's role players, Bailey showed flashes (Maryland) but was woefully inconsistent, disappearing for games at a time. If we're going to continue the upward trajectory under Wojo (even though we were worse last year than the year before...I guess Brendan didn't replace the Hausers after all?), then he needs to do a better job of developing players. Bailey seemed like the best bet to take a leap next year, but he's gone now, and unfortunately didn't become an all-timer. Luckily we've got three forwards coming in. Hopefully they'll be able to grab the minutes Bailey left, because Cain, while immensely athletic, has a very low basketball IQ.
The all knowing KenPom says we were better this past season than we were the prior year.
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Bailey is the exact type of player that shows why NIL is needed. If he could make money as one of the faces of the program for the next two years, he might not have to chase dollars overseas. I'm not even sure his standard of living will be that much better playing in Europe, but the allure of an actual paycheck could be mitigated with donors willing to persuade him to stick around.
He would probably make less than $15,000* in the Milwaukee market AND he still needs to go to school everyday.
*And I doubt that's all cash. Maybe a car trade, maybe some clothing.
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He would probably make less than $15,000* in the Milwaukee market AND he still needs to go to school everyday.
*And I doubt that's all cash. Maybe a car trade, maybe some clothing.
Sure, but meals, lodging, travel, and other expenses would be paid for. Now some teams overseas do cover some of that, but it depends on how good you (and your agent) are. I don't expect Bailey will be getting the marquee player treatment off the bat. And while going to class is a drawback, getting a degree is a positive that likely won't be there in the short term overseas.
Let's say he makes $10,000 here. That's all above living expenses since those are covered. Will he certainly make $10,000 above living expenses overseas? I'm not sure he would. Either way, it would definitely make for a more compelling argument in favor of Marquette.
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23 and making a few bucks bumming around Europe while playing hoops? Totally worth it for a few years. Wish BB good luck.
Never begrudge a kid following a dream or living life; what us middle-aged folks think is irrelevant.
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The all knowing KenPom says we were better this past season than we were the prior year.
Oh. Was the all knowing KenPom gonna give us a five seed or better?
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Oh. Was the all knowing KenPom gonna give us a five seed or better?
Right? Even Wojo's family will agree we are trending down. We're at the point where Wojo will get a lot of coaching credit if we finish .500.
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Oh. Was the all knowing KenPom gonna give us a five seed or better?
No idea. But both KenPom and the NET had us ranked better in 2019-2020 than they did in 2018-2019.
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No idea. But both KenPom and the NET had us ranked better in 2019-2020 than they did in 2018-2019.
No idea? So you think we were a 5 seed or better?
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No idea? So you think we were a 5 seed or better?
I think (know) both the NET and KenPom had us ranked better this past season than the year before. But, according to you and orange soda, downward trajectory, facts be damned.
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I think (know) both the NET and KenPom had us ranked better this past season than the year before. But, according to you and orange soda, downward trajectory, facts be damned.
2018: 24-10, 12-6, 2nd in Big East, #5 seed.
2019: 18-12, 8-10, 6th in Big East, Probably worse than a #5 seed.
Scrounge around for some more arguments, though. Facts be damned.
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2018: 24-10, 12-6, 2nd in Big East, #5 seed.
2019: 18-12, 8-10, 6th in Big East, Probably worse than a #5 seed.
Scrounge around for some more arguments, though. Facts be damned.
Oh. So our schedule was identical and the strength of the Big East was identical both years. Got it.
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College basketball is a game of “next man up,” period.
I would have welcomed Brendan Bailey for another two years and had hopes he’d step up. But, all we can do is wish him well and hope the next guys up make a difference.
Not convinced here we dont have more talent than most posters think. I’m of the view that Dawson will be really good from the outset. Here’s hoping a backcourt of Koby and Carton getting a waiver plus Theo and perhaps Justin or Oso and well be just fine.
Only concern I have is I would have liked the depth we have going into next season. Hoping Mane may still choose college :) !!!!
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Oh. So our schedule was identical and the strength of the Big East was identical both years. Got it.
Were we getting better than a #5 seed or not?
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Were we getting better than a #5 seed or not?
There was no tournament. So no? I don’t know what answer you’re looking for. What I do know is Kenpom and NET had us ranked better in 2019-2020 than they did in 2018-2019.
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i'm wondering if, or how much of a season we are going to have this year. i think with BB's dad's connections, they feel he has a better chance to develop his game for the next level. i am not saying he's necessarily going to be successful at the next level. i wish hi all the good fortunes, but he's got a lot of work to do.
also not a big vote of confidence for wojo's ability to develop small forwards like say, guys like buzz.
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There was no tournament. So no? I don’t know what answer you’re looking for. What I do know is Kenpom and NET had us ranked better in 2019-2020 than they did in 2018-2019.
Oh, okay. What I also know is that we went 8-10 in conference with a first team All American, and lost 6 of our last 7 games. Again.
Doesn't this get tiring for you, having to defend Wojo's mediocrity? I've seen you rightfully criticize leaders in other places on this website. Six years in, don't you think we can draw some conclusions?
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Oh, okay. What I also know is that we went 8-10 in conference with a first team All American, and lost 6 of our last 7 games. Again.
Doesn't this get tiring for you, having to defend Wojo's mediocrity? I've seen you rightfully criticize leaders in other places on this website. Six years in, don't you think we can draw some conclusions?
Not defending anything. Correcting incorrect statements is all.
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Not defending anything. Correcting incorrect statements is all.
Well you weren't though, bud. You decided pointing out that the schedules were different year to year (No sh*t?) was your big trump card. I agree with Ners/Elon about pretty much nothing, but he's right about you. Instead of looking for ways to antagonize people who disagreed with you about Wojo building the program into Duke Lite, you could've just owned up. Dude's failed to win a tournament game in six years. His two best teams completely dismantled down the stretch. You'll never eat crow though. Oh well.
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Well you weren't though, bud. You decided pointing out that the schedules were different year to year (No sh*t?) was your big trump card. I agree with Ners/Elon about pretty much nothing, but he's right about you. Instead of looking for ways to antagonize people who disagreed with you about Wojo building the program into Duke Lite, you could've just owned up. Dude's failed to win a tournament game in six years. His two best teams completely dismantled down the stretch. You'll never eat crow though. Oh well.
Lol. None of that is what you were discussing in the post I responded to. So I guess I'll apologize for not anticipating you would go off the rails and addressing things you hadn't said yet when responding to your post?
Based on your way of "ranking" Wojo's teams (which is what you were discussing, which teams of his were better than other teams of his), Henry Ellenson's year would've been better than Wojo's first NCAA Tournament team or his NIT team. Now that is a WILD way of ranking his teams, but hey, you do you, bud.
Fact is, 2019-2020 was better in KenPom/NET than 2018-2019, so that being worse last year than the year we had 2 letter writers and 0 help from Bailey in replacing them just doesn't ring true.
I'll let you continue to go on about Wojo's coaching ability, none of which is what I replied to.
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Lol. None of that is what you were discussing in the post I responded to. So I guess I'll apologize for not anticipating you would go off the rails and addressing things you hadn't said yet when responding to your post?
Based on your way of "ranking" Wojo's teams (which is what you were discussing, which teams of his were better than other teams of his), Henry Ellenson's year would've been better than Wojo's first NCAA Tournament team or his NIT team. Now that is a WILD way of ranking his teams, but hey, you do you.
Fact is, 2019-2020 was better in KenPom/NET than 2018-2019, so that upward trajectory and 0 help from Bailey in replacing the Howard just doesn't ring true.
I'll let you continue to go on about Wojo's coaching ability, none of which is what I replied to.
Neat. Fact is we went 8-10 in conference, and were going to be a worse seed than the year before. I am in no way anti-stats, but they don't outweigh the results. Again, you're scrounging around for ways to make Wojo look better than he is. You're ignoring all the facts and holding strong with Hydroxy--sorry, his KenPom ranking, regardless of everything else.
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Worst part of Bailey leaving is only 10 guys on scholarship. If Carton doesn’t get a waiver, depth and experience is really stressed then. Then you live in fear of a player or two going down with an injury, which is almost inevitable over course of a season. It’s a tenuous situation right now.
Normally you are right about this. However, I just cannot worry about how good this team is. I just hope there is an NCAA tournament whether we are in it or not. We are possibly looking at a season without fans in the stadium. I just want to get back to normal. I am not going to obsess about this year's team.
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No idea. But both KenPom and the NET had us ranked better in 2019-2020 than they did in 2018-2019.
All I know is the Big East overall was much better last season than the prior season. Therefore the team could of been better, but have a worse record.
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College basketball is a game of “next man up,” period.
Not convinced here we dont have more talent than most posters think. I’m of the view that Dawson will be really good from the outset. Here’s hoping a backcourt of Koby and Carton getting a waiver plus Theo and perhaps Justin or Oso and well be just fine.
It may not even be the talent factor. I loved watching Markus play. However, a team that becomes dependent on one player is going to have a hard time against strong competition. A less talented team could have better results, if they are more balanced.
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Oh, okay. What I also know is that we went 8-10 in conference with a first team All American, and lost 6 of our last 7 games. Again.
Doesn't this get tiring for you, having to defend Wojo's mediocrity? I've seen you rightfully criticize leaders in other places on this website. Six years in, don't you think we can draw some conclusions?
It sure does. However, what I think is ironic is posters are excited about Carton and Perez, who stopped playing with their prior teams the last third of last season. This does not give me confidence that there will not be another melt down, when they become eligible.
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It sure does. However, what I think is ironic is posters are excited about Carton and Perez, who stopped playing with their prior teams the last third of last season. This does not give me confidence that there will not be another melt down, when they become eligible.
I get what you're saying, and I don't disagree. But I imagine we'd both agree that those two guys deserve a chance to prove themselves. I am worried about Wojo though. He's shown that he can't stop a locker room mutiny and let it destroy inarguably the best season of his HC career. I hope he's able to figure out how to fit all the pieces together this time.
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It may not even be the talent factor. I loved watching Markus play. However, a team that becomes dependent on one player is going to have a hard time against strong competition. A less talented team could have better results, if they are more balanced.
This has to be one of the most No-Jo post ever.
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Lol. None of that is what you were discussing in the post I responded to. So I guess I'll apologize for not anticipating you would go off the rails and addressing things you hadn't said yet when responding to your post?
Based on your way of "ranking" Wojo's teams (which is what you were discussing, which teams of his were better than other teams of his), Henry Ellenson's year would've been better than Wojo's first NCAA Tournament team or his NIT team. Now that is a WILD way of ranking his teams, but hey, you do you, bud.
Fact is, 2019-2020 was better in KenPom/NET than 2018-2019, so that being worse last year than the year we had 2 letter writers and 0 help from Bailey in replacing them just doesn't ring true.
I'll let you continue to go on about Wojo's coaching ability, none of which is what I replied to.
Simple two questions:
1) Has Wojo met your expectations?
2) What grade would you assign Wojo?
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i'm wondering if, or how much of a season we are going to have this year. i think with BB's dad's connections, they feel he has a better chance to develop his game for the next level. i am not saying he's necessarily going to be successful at the next level. i wish hi all the good fortunes, but he's got a lot of work to do.
also not a big vote of confidence for wojo's ability to develop small forwards like say, guys like buzz.
I was thinking this too rocket. If the year is uncertain, and you ate targeting one more year in college, move somewhere where you can make better progress.
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Simple two questions:
1) Has Wojo met your expectations?
2) What grade would you assign Wojo?
I can answer this for Wade's...because it's easy..
1. More than met my expectations, yes
2. A- I think he's done a good job during his time at MU.
8-)
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Simple two questions:
1) Has Wojo met your expectations?
2) What grade would you assign Wojo?
No. C.
Now my question. What do those things have to do with what I said?
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I can answer this for Wade's...because it's easy..
1. More than met my expectations, yes
2. A- I think he's done a good job during his time at MU.
8-)
This answer was precipitated by a large LSD dose.
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This answer was precipitated by a large LSD dose.
You do realize I was answering that in the way I anticipated wades would answer it, right?? those are NOT my feelings on him.
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No. C.
Now my question. What do those things have to do with what I said?
Ners will be Ners
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Next year looking like O’Neill’s with his first recruiting class. What does Wojo do to chase these guys away? Not missing much anyways. So many years into the Wojo era, still no wins in tourney - none in the immediate horizon. Still relying on transfers. Sad!
My thoughts exactly. We hope the incoming freshmen are good. We hope Carton gets a waiver. We hope the returnees improve. We hope we’re good enough to be a fringe tourney team by year end. This is ridiculous. It’s as if MU has entered the twilight zone of mid-majorville.
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My thoughts exactly. We hope the incoming freshmen are good. We hope Carton gets a waiver. We hope the returnees improve. We hope we’re good enough to be a fringe tourney team by year end. This is ridiculous. It’s as if MU has entered the twilight zone of mid-majorville.
Holy cow. Absurdly dramatic. It’s a transition year, no question, and there’s still talk of the tourney. That’s, um, a good thing. Yes, the outcomes didn’t line up with our expectations over the last few years, but Wojo isn’t exactly burning the program to the ground. Now, that’s not deserving of a gold star, obviously, but I’ll give him a little more leeway to see what he does with this freshmen class.
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Holy cow. Absurdly dramatic. It’s a transition year, no question, and there’s still talk of the tourney. That’s, um, a good thing. Yes, the outcomes didn’t line up with our expectations over the last few years, but Wojo isn’t exactly burning the program to the ground. Now, that’s not deserving of a gold star, obviously, but I’ll give him a little more leeway to see what he does with this freshmen class.
To be a transition year we need to be transitioning from something. After 6 years it is just more of the same dead flounder gasping for air and flopping around.
Even players who have little hope in the NBA are jumping ship.
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To be a transition year we need to be transitioning from something. After 6 years it is just more of the same dead flounder gasping for air and flopping around.
Even players who have little hope in the NBA are jumping ship.
How many programs are out there that didn’t lose a single player that was eligible to return next year.
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To be a transition year we need to be transitioning from something. After 6 years it is just more of the same dead flounder gasping for air and flopping around.
Even players who have little hope in the NBA are jumping ship.
Exactly. I was going to reply to the post too, but there’s just no point anymore in people who think just one more chance for this coaching failure will produce different results.
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How many programs are out there that didn’t lose a single player that was eligible to return next year.
This is what it’s come to in order to find a Wojo “accomplishment”, and a reason to be optimistic.
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How many programs are out there that didn’t lose a single player that was eligible to return next year.
BTW, in case you missed the news, we have indeed lost a single player who was eligible to return next year.
But yeah, hang a banner otherwise.
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BTW, in case you missed the news, we have indeed lost a single player who was eligible to return next year.
But yeah, hang a banner otherwise.
Yes, that’s the point...
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Yes, that’s the point...
Ok, missed that your angle was lumping us in with nearly every other program. That’s not your usual m.o.
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Ok, missed that your angle was lumping us in with nearly every other program. That’s not your usual m.o.
The Freshmen are going to be good don't know if excellent but good
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The Freshmen are going to be good don't know if excellent but good
I agree and really looking forward to seeing them all. They’re going to have a lot on their shoulders from day one.
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Gotta say after this I think Bailey goes on the bust pile. I remember him being pretty hyped both when he signed and when he was coming back from mission. To get a total of, what, 5 good games out of him over two years isn't a great return.
Any, all the best BB - certainly hope " His best basketball is ahead of him "
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Holy cow. Absurdly dramatic. It’s a transition year, no question, and there’s still talk of the tourney. That’s, um, a good thing. Yes, the outcomes didn’t line up with our expectations over the last few years, but Wojo isn’t exactly burning the program to the ground. Now, that’s not deserving of a gold star, obviously, but I’ll give him a little more leeway to see what he does with this freshmen class.
Weave bin in a transition year each of da past 6 yeers, aina?
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Gotta say after this I think Bailey goes on the bust pile. I remember him being pretty hyped both when he signed and when he was coming back from mission. To get a total of, what, 5 good games out of him over two years isn't a great return.
Any, all the best BB - certainly hope " His best basketball is ahead of him "
Based on the hype around him his freshman year and the inconsistency once he stepped into starting minutes, I can't disagree. There was upside there, but it never felt realized.
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No. C.
Now my question. What do those things have to do with what I said?
Program trajectory was being discussed. You've continuously taken issue with any post(er) critical of Wojo. Would seem to me a "C" is pretty much indicative of flat line performance.
That aside, appreciate the honest assessment. Wojo has met my expectations too - I knew 10 games in mediocre was his ceiling. Just unfortunate that we spend Top 10 on program and get mediocre ROI.
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Program trajectory was being discussed. You've continuously taken issue with any post(er) critical of Wojo. Would seem to me a "C" is pretty much indicative of flat line performance.
That aside, appreciate the honest assessment. Wojo has met my expectations too - I knew 10 games in mediocre was his ceiling. Just unfortunate that we spend Top 10 on program and get mediocre ROI.
Ten games into his first year coaching ever, with players that weren't even his, against a schedule that wasn't his, against 3 top 20 B1G teams, was too quick to make an assessment. You were either going to be right, wrong in the very unlikely event he made the final weekend, or able to move goalposts saying something along the lines of "we were already at consistent second levels so the program still isn't trending upward so wojos been mediocre"
That first 10 games is too little time, but yes you've seemingly ended up right.
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Program trajectory was being discussed. You've continuously taken issue with any post(er) critical of Wojo. Would seem to me a "C" is pretty much indicative of flat line performance.
That aside, appreciate the honest assessment. Wojo has met my expectations too - I knew 10 games in mediocre was his ceiling. Just unfortunate that we spend Top 10 on program and get mediocre ROI.
I said nothing about not being critical of Wojo. Be critical of Wojo all you want. But when your whining can easily be proven false (see: we were worse last year than the year before despite the upward trajectory, apparently Bailey wasn’t able to replace the Hausers one bit) be prepared to have the facts brought up (we ranked better in both NET and KenPom in 2019-2020 than we did in 2018-2019). If your argument is “look at our wins!” Fine. I guess Henry’s team was better than 2016-2017 or 2017-2018.
Has nothing to do with loving Wojo, hating Wojo, thinking Wojo is God’s gift to basketball or thinking Wojo was planted to be the demise of Marquette University. There’s plenty to whine about. Heck, you can even debate whether the trajectory is up, down, or flat. But when your statement implies our trajectory obviously isn’t up because we had a worse year this year than last, that’s just not the case. Don’t make up stuff to whine about. That’s all.
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I said nothing about not being critical of Wojo. Be critical of Wojo all you want. But when your whining can easily be proven false (see: we were worse last year than the year before despite the upward trajectory, apparently Bailey wasn’t able to replace the Hausers one bit) be prepared to have the facts brought up (we ranked better in both NET and KenPom in 2019-2020 than we did in 2018-2019). If your argument is “look at our wins!” Fine. I guess Henry’s team was better than 2016-2017 or 2017-2018.
Has nothing to do with loving Wojo, hating Wojo, thinking Wojo is God’s gift to basketball or thinking Wojo was planted to be the demise of Marquette University. There’s plenty to whine about. Heck, you can even debate whether the trajectory is up, down, or flat. But when your statement implies our trajectory obviously isn’t up because we had a worse year this year than last, that’s just not the case. Don’t make up stuff to whine about. That’s all.
No one can say with a straight face that we were going to get a better seed than last year. Fact is we were under .500 in conference. Anyone with a shred of intellectual honesty knows we were worse last year than the year before. Results matter.
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Ten games into his first year coaching ever, with players that weren't even his, against a schedule that wasn't his, against 3 top 20 B1G teams, was too quick to make an assessment. You were either going to be right, wrong in the very unlikely event he made the final weekend, or able to move goalposts saying something along the lines of "we were already at consistent second levels so the program still isn't trending upward so wojos been mediocre"
That first 10 games is too little time, but yes you've seemingly ended up right.
My assessment of Wojo at that time wasn't a short-term view, as in the results of that first season.
From my perspective my gut told me from watching those first 10 games that his decision-making, in-game coaching, rotation, roster management, were concerning and didn't bode well.
He's a nice guy, clean cut, brought good kids to MU, and we've been generally fun to watch during his time. It certainly could be worse. It's frustrating because he's gotten enough talent here to win more than he has. He's improved some, yet just not sure there is enough aptitude and "it" factor there to get over the hump.
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No one can say with a straight face that we were going to get a better seed than last year. Fact is we were under .500 in conference. Anyone with a shred of intellectual honesty knows we were worse last year than the year before. Results matter.
And the results had us finishing as a better team in 2019-2020 than 2018-2019. But if you want to believe Henry’s year was the second best team Wojo has had more power to you. I don’t know what to tell you.
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And the results had us finishing as a better team in 2019-2020 than 2018-2019. But if you want to believe Henry’s year was the second best team Wojo has had more power to you. I don’t know what to tell you.
Henry's year, the one when we didn't even make the NIT? I'm comfortable saying that a team that went to the NCAA tournament is better than one that whiffs on the postseason completely. I'm also comfortable saying that a team that was going to be worse than a five seed is...worse than a team that was a five seed. These aren't difficult concepts, but in your quest to defend Wojo at every turn, you're trying to muddy the waters and obfuscate that having a worse overall record, worse conference record, much less time in the top 25, and what all bracketologists predicted was going to be a worse seed, means that we were worse than the year before. Instead, you're clinging to a data point that had 15-16 Minnesota as the 42nd best team. If we really were better than last year, then why wasn't the committee going to give us a better seed than last year?
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And the results had us finishing as a better team in 2019-2020 than 2018-2019. But if you want to believe Henry’s year was the second best team Wojo has had more power to you. I don’t know what to tell you.
Would you agree we are trending down?
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Henry's year, the one when we didn't even make the NIT? I'm comfortable saying that a team that went to the NCAA tournament is better than one that whiffs on the postseason completely. I'm also comfortable saying that a team that was going to be worse than a five seed is...worse than a team that was a five seed. These aren't difficult concepts, but in your quest to defend Wojo at every turn, you're trying to muddy the waters and obfuscate that having a worse overall record, worse conference record, much less time in the top 25, and what all bracketologists predicted was going to be a worse seed, means that we were worse than the year before. Instead, you're clinging to a data point that had 15-16 Minnesota as the 42nd best team. If we really were better than last year, then why wasn't the committee going to give us a better seed than last year?
The committee wasn’t giving a seed. We didn’t even get a conference tournament much less an NCAA Tournament.
You talk about record but then when it’s pointed out Hank’s team had the second best record through the regular season and the BET you want to dismiss his team. Which is it?
Comparing our conference record in 2020 to 2019 isn’t hard to figure out. The Big East was significantly better in 2020. And so was our overall schedule, much due to the much better BE.
The good thing about KenPom is it looks at all those things. So does the NET. Has nothing to do with “defending Wojo.” Looking at record from one year to the next and deciding hey, we had a better record this year so we must’ve been a better team isn’t exactly an intelligent way of looking at teams.
Would you agree we are trending down?
No.
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The committee wasn’t giving a seed. We didn’t even get a conference tournament much less an NCAA Tournament.
You talk about record but then when it’s pointed out Hank’s team had the second best record through the regular season and the BET you want to dismiss his team. Which is it?
Comparing our conference record in 2020 to 2019 isn’t hard to figure out. The Big East was significantly better in 2020. And so was our overall schedule, much due to the much better BE.
The good thing about KenPom is it looks at all those things. So does the NET. Has nothing to do with “defending Wojo.” Looking at record from one year to the next and deciding hey, we had a better record this year so we must’ve been a better team isn’t exactly an intelligent way of looking at teams.
I used overall record as a data point, not the end all be all. Like I said, a team that doesn't even make the postseason isn't better than one that does.
Jamming your head in the sand and acting like we have no idea what the committee was going to do is intellectually dishonest, and yes, just another way for you to defend a guy who went 8-10 in conference with a first team All American.
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The committee wasn’t giving a seed. We didn’t even get a conference tournament much less an NCAA Tournament.
You talk about record but then when it’s pointed out Hank’s team had the second best record through the regular season and the BET you want to dismiss his team. Which is it?
Comparing our conference record in 2020 to 2019 isn’t hard to figure out. The Big East was significantly better in 2020. And so was our overall schedule, much due to the much better BE.
The good thing about KenPom is it looks at all those things. So does the NET. Has nothing to do with “defending Wojo.” Looking at record from one year to the next and deciding hey, we had a better record this year so we must’ve been a better team isn’t exactly an intelligent way of looking at teams.
No.
Your average fan doesn’t give a flying gig about KenPom or any other stats but W and L.
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Triggered
Hell of a response
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No one can say with a straight face that we were going to get a better seed than last year. Fact is we were under .500 in conference. Anyone with a shred of intellectual honesty knows we were worse last year than the year before. Results matter.
Better seed? No. Better team? There's certainly an argument that 2019-20 was better than 2018-19. We weren't just ranked higher on kenpom, our Adjusted Efficiency Margin was 0.67 higher in 2019-20. We had a worse league record, but that was largely because there were 6 other teams in the kenpom top-40 (just one in 2018-19) and 8 teams in the kenpom top-70 (just four in 2018-19). Compare the losses. The 2018-19 team had 8 losses outside the kenpom top-50. The 2019-20 team had just 2!
Ultimately, both teams were disappointing. 2018-19 because they threw away a great shot at a conference title and 2019-20 because they similarly capitulated down the stretch, but if you look at the numbers there's a perfectly fair argument that the most recent team would've had a better record and higher seed than the 2018-19 team did if they played against the same schedule.
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Unfortunately for Wojo '19-'20 did not earn him a raise or extention. This is the beginning of the end.
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I still believed the 18/19 team could win games towards the end of the season. The 19/20 team down the stretch was one of the most pathetic performances I’ve ever seen. Covid saved them from further embarrassment.
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Unfortunately for Wojo '19-'20 did not earn him a raise or extention. This is the beginning of the end.
This just in: there’s not a ton of money being thrown around by college athletic departments to their basketball coaches right now.
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The Freshmen are going to be good don't know if excellent but good
I think, if they stay long enough they will be really good. I am more interested in them getting enough playing time next year to be happy and not transfer. From that standpoint Bailey leaving does not bother me.
I am not worried about what our actual record is going to be in a season that is going to have a lot of Covid worries.
I am worried about the NCAA allowing players to transfer without sitting out. I fear MU ends up on the wrong side of this. However, it may be a reason to reduce the recruiting budget. It may be smarter to go after transfers than to go after incoming freshmen.
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I think, if they stay long enough they will be really good. I am more interested in them getting enough playing time next year to be happy and not transfer. From that standpoint Bailey leaving does not bother me.
I am not worried about what our actual record is going to be in a season that is going to have a lot of Covid worries.
I am worried about the NCAA allowing players to transfer without sitting out. I fear MU ends up on the wrong side of this. However, it may be a reason to reduce the recruiting budget. It may be smarter to go after transfers than to go after incoming freshmen.
I think MU benefits from the ability of immediate transfers. There are plenty of quality guys who sign up with blue bloods and don't get playing time . Playing in FiServ and The Big East is a very attractive place for those transfers .
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Better seed? No. Better team? There's certainly an argument that 2019-20 was better than 2018-19. We weren't just ranked higher on kenpom, our Adjusted Efficiency Margin was 0.67 higher in 2019-20. We had a worse league record, but that was largely because there were 6 other teams in the kenpom top-40 (just one in 2018-19) and 8 teams in the kenpom top-70 (just four in 2018-19). Compare the losses. The 2018-19 team had 8 losses outside the kenpom top-50. The 2019-20 team had just 2!
Ultimately, both teams were disappointing. 2018-19 because they threw away a great shot at a conference title and 2019-20 because they similarly capitulated down the stretch, but if you look at the numbers there's a perfectly fair argument that the most recent team would've had a better record and higher seed than the 2018-19 team did if they played against the same schedule.
Why do you post facts on Scoop?
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Perfect example of kenpom breaking people’s brains. A healthy Howard paired with Hauser is infinitely better than the team we had last season.
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I still believed the 18/19 team could win games towards the end of the season. The 19/20 team down the stretch was one of the most pathetic performances I’ve ever seen. Covid saved them from further embarrassment.
Seton Hall was the better team and I had little hope of us winning that game. As far as the NCAA tournament, I thought they only chance we had of winning was getting into a Dayton play in game. Win that one and I think we would of won their next game. It would of been a huge advantage to have a play in win under their belt.
In 2018/2019 we were one game behind Villanova after 9 games and we finished one game behind Villanova at the end of the season. This tells me the rest of the Big East got significantly better. Looking at only the last 9 games Villanova and MU tied for last place.
MU is not meeting my expectations under Wojo.
On the plus side it appears that Wojo runs a clean program and that he works extremely hard on recruiting
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The big negative for me is team building, which is odd given his recruiting efforts. However, I think it is because he focuses more shooters than other attributes. I also see his sales pitch as a problem. He convinced Garcia he would run the offense through him. He seems to have made the same promise to Carton. He was making the same promise to Mane even after we signed Carton. I am not sure how you meld the talent of Garcia, Carton and Mane together when they were all promised that the offense would run through them. This sounds like a repeat of Hausergate to me.
The imbalance of Wojo's teams is reflected in the statistics. In 6 seasons Wojo has managed to have the all- time leading freshmen scorer (Ellenson), the all-time leading sophomore scorer (Howard), the all-time leading junior scorer (Howard) and the two top all-time leading senior scorers (Howard and Rowsey). All this individual scoring with virtually no postseason success clearly indicates to me a team building problem.
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I'm also comfortable saying that a team that was going to be worse than a five seed is...worse than a team that was a five seed.
I am not going to argue which team is better,. I will argue that the 2018/2019 team did not deserve to be a five seed. Seeding is screwed up, because the tournament committee gives as much credit for a November win as a February/March win.
It is possible that the big reason we would of gotten into the tournament this year was that we beat USC in a November game that was destroyed by refs calling 60+ fouls. We did not have the frontline talent that USC had, but the refs eliminated that advantage. On paper we should not of won that game and I do not believe we would of beaten USC again, if we played them in March.
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I am not going to argue which team is better,. I will argue that the 2018/2019 team did not deserve to be a five seed. Seeding is screwed up, because the tournament committee gives as much credit for a November win as a February/March win.
It is possible that the big reason we would of gotten into the tournament this year was that we beat USC in a November game that was destroyed by refs calling 60+ fouls. We did not have the frontline talent that USC had, but the refs eliminated that advantage. On paper we should not of won that game and I do not believe we would of beaten USC again, if we played them in March.
We beat USC by like 78 points.
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This just in: there’s not a ton of money being thrown around by college athletic departments to their basketball coaches right now.
This just in. Wojo did nothing last year to earn a raise or extention. The end is near.
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This just in. Wojo did nothing last year to earn a raise or extention. The end is near.
How near? When do you expect Wojo to be gone from Marquette’s head coaching position?
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How near? When do you expect Wojo to be gone from Marquette’s head coaching position?
The end isn't at all near. Wojo will be here at least two more years unless someone else hires him away. I don't see any way he isn't here through the 2021-22 season barring a major (think fired for cause) level scandal.
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The end isn't at all near. Wojo will be here at least two more years unless someone else hires him away. I don't see any way he isn't here through the 2021-22 season barring a major (think fired for cause) level scandal.
Awesome, I love seeing this product on the floor.
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Awesome, I love seeing this product on the floor.
Had me fooled!
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I am not going to argue which team is better,. I will argue that the 2018/2019 team did not deserve to be a five seed. Seeding is screwed up, because the tournament committee gives as much credit for a November win as a February/March win.
It is possible that the big reason we would of gotten into the tournament this year was that we beat USC in a November game that was destroyed by refs calling 60+ fouls. We did not have the frontline talent that USC had, but the refs eliminated that advantage. On paper we should not of won that game and I do not believe we would of beaten USC again, if we played them in March.
Wrong
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I am not going to argue which team is better,. I will argue that the 2018/2019 team did not deserve to be a five seed. Seeding is screwed up, because the tournament committee gives as much credit for a November win as a February/March win.
It is possible that the big reason we would of gotten into the tournament this year was that we beat USC in a November game that was destroyed by refs calling 60+ fouls. We did not have the frontline talent that USC had, but the refs eliminated that advantage. On paper we should not of won that game and I do not believe we would of beaten USC again, if we played them in March.
We couldn't beat Depaul in March.
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How near? When do you expect Wojo to be gone from Marquette’s head coaching position?
He has 2 more years. Next year will be about .500. After that the remaining contract will be an easy payoff for MU.
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He has 2 more years. Next year will be about .500. After that the remaining contract will be an easy payoff for MU.
Would it be an easy payoff? There’s a lot of tough decisions ahead on 12th Street.
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Based on the hype around him his freshman year and the inconsistency once he stepped into starting minutes, I can't disagree. There was upside there, but it never felt realized.
You think recruiting miss or failure to develop him?
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You think recruiting miss or failure to develop him?
Hard to define it as either. I think the ability was there and I think Bailey was on course to be a quality player as an upperclassmen. I think the two lost years hurt his development more than anything I'd pin on the staff and I think the flashes of skill he showed indicate he wasn't a complete miss. I do think they let a bit too much leak about how big an impact player he would be and he didn't deliver on that in his time here.
I think if there's a failing, it's simply not keeping him around long enough to maximize his potential. It kind of feels like a Jimmy Butler leaving after his sophomore year situation. He looked lost at times, like sophomore year JFB, he showed big flashes at times, like sophomore year JFB, and generally he understood his role, like sophomore year JFB. I'm not at all saying Bailey has the long-term ceiling Butler has shown, but I do think he had a similar collegiate ceiling and the staff just couldn't keep him here to get there.
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You think recruiting miss or failure to develop him?
Me personally, I think it was failure to develop. To be fair however, I wonder how different things may have been with Brendan had he come to MU right away and not done his 2 year Mormon mission.
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Didn't fully bounce back from two years off.
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Bailey was certainly developing. He was much better sophomore year than his freshman year. I think he could have ended up a really solid player had he stuck around. A more versatle, better scoring version of Sacar.
The two years off didn't help though.
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We couldn't beat Depaul in March.
There were quite a few years pre-Wojo where we couldn't beat DePaul twice. Even Buzz's best team inexplicably dropped games to wretched DePaul teams.
I'm not trying to compare any particular teams or any particular coaches, just saying that the inability to sweep DePaul hasn't exactly been a marker on how good or bad a team was.
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There were quite a few years pre-Wojo where we couldn't beat DePaul twice. Even Buzz's best team inexplicably dropped games to wretched DePaul teams.
I'm not trying to compare any particular teams or any particular coaches, just saying that the inability to sweep DePaul hasn't exactly been a marker on how good or bad a team was.
Absolutely inexcusable to lose to DePaul if you're MU. I don't care who the Coach is..it should never happen. Ever. Crean and Buzz lost to DePaul a combined 6 times in their tenures(that was 6 times to many), Wojo has lost to them 6 times in his 7 years(again, 6 times too many).
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Absolutely inexcusable to lose to DePaul if you're MU. I don't care who the Coach is..it should never happen. Ever. Crean and Buzz lost to DePaul a combined 6 times in their tenures(that was 6 times to many), Wojo has lost to them 6 times in his 7 years(again, 6 times too many).
DePaul was much better during the Crean era than today.
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DePaul was much better during the Crean era than today.
Doesn't matter...still should NEVER happen...I mean MU lost to them when they had Wade, Diener etc. DePaul to MU should be like Milwaukee is to MU. That being said you are correct, dePaul was better then than they are now, which makes Wojo's 6 losses to them even worse. Not a good look.
For anyone that's going to chime in with...well DePaul beat so and so this year or that year. I DON'T CARE. Let them beat those teams. It means nothing as far as how MU should do against them. Period.
Let's put it this way...MU's program/talent level SHOULD be so much further ahead then DePaul's dumpster fire of a program that MU should be able to bring their "D" game against DePaul's "A" game on a regular basis and they still shouldn't lose to them(other than maybe some fluky occurrence). The fact that MU's program(relative to my comparison) isn't at that level vis a vis Depaul, is a big problem to me.
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Doesn't matter...still should NEVER happen...I mean MU lost to them when they had Wade, Diener etc. DePaul to MU should be like Milwaukee is to MU. That being said you are correct, dePaul was better then than they are now, which makes Wojo's 6 losses to them even worse. Not a good look.
For anyone that's going to chime in with...well DePaul beat so and so this year or that year. I DON'T CARE. Let them beat those teams. It means nothing as far as how MU should do against them. Period.
Let's put it this way...MU's program/talent level SHOULD be so much further ahead then DePaul's dumpster fire of a program that MU should be able to bring their "D" game against DePaul's "A" game on a regular basis and they still shouldn't lose to them(other than maybe some fluky occurrence). The fact that MU's program(relative to my comparison) isn't at that level vis a vis Depaul, is a big problem to me.
Milwaukee is a low/mid major. DePaul is a Big East Team so no, they will never be like UWM is to us. They do get future NBA players (legitimately or not. They paid a lot for the Richardson/Simmons/Hunter group). And this past year, I’d put Moore and Reed ahead of anyone else on MU’s roster other than Howard. That’s because they’re a major, like it or not.
MU never lost to DePaul with Wade, the loss in 2004 was to the conference champ/NCAA second round DePaul team, the next year a20 win, 2nd round NIT DePaul team. Both had NBA players on them, something Milwaukee has never been able to boast.
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Milwaukee is a low/mid major. DePaul is a Big East Team so no, they will never be like UWM is to us. They do get future NBA players (legitimately or not. They paid a lot for the Richardson/Simmons/Hunter group). And this past year, I’d put Moore and Reed ahead of anyone else on MU’s roster other than Howard. That’s because they’re a major, like it or not.
MU never lost to DePaul with Wade, the loss in 2004 was to the conference champ/NCAA second round DePaul team, the next year a20 win, 2nd round NIT DePaul team. Both had NBA players on them, something Milwaukee has never been able to boast.
DePaul is a mid major program, playing in a Major conference. Period. I don't care what anyone says...MU's program should be at a level where losing to DePaul should ONLY be a fluky occurence. If you want to think/say otherwise, that's fine..I won't use that excuse.
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DePaul is a mid major program, playing in a Major conference. Period. I don't care what anyone says...MU's program should be at a level where losing to DePaul should ONLY be a fluky occurence. If you want to think/say otherwise, that's fine..I won't use that excuse.
Chris Beard and Texas Tech lost to DePaul. DePaul probably thought losing to Marquette in the 80’s and early 90’s was unacceptable. Things can change quickly
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Bailey was certainly developing. He was much better sophomore year than his freshman year. I think he could have ended up a really solid player had he stuck around. A more versatle, better scoring version of Sacar.
The two years off didn't help though.
I agree with this.
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Chris Beard and Texas Tech lost to DePaul. DePaul probably thought losing to Marquette in the 80’s and early 90’s was unacceptable. Things can change quickly
DePaul also knocked off Luka Garza (NPOY finalist and first team AA) and Iowa. The dude is beyond irrational here. DePaul had legit talent this past year.
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DePaul also knocked off Luka Garza (NPOY finalist and first team AA) and Iowa. The dude is beyond irrational here. DePaul had legit talent this past year.
And went 3-15 in conference 😂😂😂
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DePaul is a mid major program, playing in a Major conference. Period. I don't care what anyone says...MU's program should be at a level where losing to DePaul should ONLY be a fluky occurence. If you want to think/say otherwise, that's fine..I won't use that excuse.
If you don't care what anyone says then stop posting about it.
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DePaul also knocked off Luka Garza (NPOY finalist and first team AA) and Iowa. The dude is beyond irrational here. DePaul had legit talent this past year.
One more time and then I'm done with it...Let me be as perfectly clear as I can..I DO NOT CARE who else DePaul beats. It's totally irrelevant. MU should be at a level as a program/talent that they do NOT lose to DePaul. That's it, that's the final word on it.
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One more time and then I'm done with it...Let me be as perfectly clear as I can..I DO NOT CARE who else DePaul beats. It's totally irrelevant. MU should be at a level as a program/talent that they do NOT lose to DePaul. That's it, that's the final word on it.
You’re wrong
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And went 3-15 in conference 😂😂😂
Which shows how strong the conference was.
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You’re wrong
Nope, I'm not..I am 100% correct. No matter how much you want to believe otherwise or think otherwise, it's correct. Period.
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Nope, I'm not..I am 100% correct. No matter how much you want to believe otherwise or think otherwise, it's correct. Period.
::)
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Nope, I'm not..I am 100% correct. No matter how much you want to believe otherwise or think otherwise, it's correct. Period.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge
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DePaul won @ Iowa, @ Minny, beat Northwestern and Texas Tech.
They finished in last place in an obviously very tough league.
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DePaul won @ Iowa, @ Minny, beat Northwestern and Texas Tech.
They finished in last place in an obviously very tough league.
The only truly impressive win out of that group is at Iowa. Which is very impressive, but the others are meh wins. TT was without their best player and probably still should’ve won. Minnesota was so mediocre and Northwestern stinks out loud.
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Nope, I'm not..I am 100% correct. No matter how much you want to believe otherwise or think otherwise, it's correct. Period.
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/izz9cSGQ3FZodWiFVM/giphy.gif?cid=82a1493be5a202564c87b8b637d89beebf8a5c7474707fe7&rid=giphy.gif)
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DePaul won @ Iowa, @ Minny, beat Northwestern and Texas Tech.
They finished in last place in an obviously very tough league.
I honestly have never understood why it seems like natural instinct for people to always prop up MU opponents. You see it constantly during the season with retorts like "this game will be tough etc etc". I don't know if it's people's way of then trying to justify a loss to a lessor team, or some sort of comfort thing in their minds which then keeps them from criticizing a performance and rather give the other team credit, but I wish more people would call a spade a spade, when it's appropriate. You see it from fans seemingly everywhere, but it seems like MU fans are towards the top of the pack for leading this charge. It's strange.
There are even some fans here(and yes I have seen it), that think EVERY single game should/will be tough unless it's a non conference bunny. I guess it makes them feel better for some reason. I guess they'd rather go out of their way to praise the other team then bring themselves to criticize an MU performance. Speaks volumes as to where the program is at if you ask me.
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One more time and then I'm done with it...Let me be as perfectly clear as I can..I DO NOT CARE who else DePaul beats. It's totally irrelevant. MU should be at a level as a program/talent that they do NOT lose to DePaul. That's it, that's the final word on it.
Let me ask you, if MU is in a rebuild year and Depaul brings back the second coming of Mark Aguirre and Terry Cummings then is it still an absolute travesty? If your answer is yes then you cannot logically grasp why people think your opinion is so ridiculous. If your answer is no then you should realize college b-ball is cyclical for most programs and that's why it's so ridiculous to say these "never lose to Depaul" Statements.
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The only truly impressive win out of that group is at Iowa. Which is very impressive, but the others are meh wins. TT was without their best player and probably still should’ve won. Minnesota was so mediocre and Northwestern stinks out loud.
DePaul finished in last place.
Multiple Meh wins are big wins.
@ Minny is a huge win for a last place team.
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I honestly have never understood why it seems like natural instinct for people to always prop up MU opponents. You see it constantly during the season with retorts like "this game will be tough etc etc". I don't know if it's people's way of then trying to justify a loss to a lessor team, or some sort of comfort thing in their minds which then keeps them from criticizing a performance and rather give the other team credit, but I wish more people would call a spade a spade, when it's appropriate. You see it from fans seemingly everywhere, but it seems like MU fans are towards the top of the pack for leading this charge. It's strange.
There are even some fans here(and yes I have seen it), that think EVERY single game should/will be tough unless it's a non conference bunny. I guess it makes them feel better for some reason. I guess they'd rather go out of their way to praise the other team then bring themselves to criticize an MU performance. Speaks volumes as to where the program is at if you ask me.
Have a drink my man...going off the rails that MU sometimes loses to DePaul.
Wait for it......it.will.happen.again!
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Let me ask you, if MU is in a rebuild year and Depaul brings back the second coming of Mark Aguirre and Terry Cummings then is it still an absolute travesty? If your answer is yes then you cannot logically grasp why people think your opinion is so ridiculous. If your answer is no then you should realize college b-ball is cyclical for most programs and that's why it's so ridiculous to say these "never lose to Depaul" Statements.
I think you're 100% right. However, our best team lost six of their last seven games, and now we're probably going to be even worse. How much longer are we going to have the same conversation?
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Let me ask you, if MU is in a rebuild year and Depaul brings back the second coming of Mark Aguirre and Terry Cummings then is it still an absolute travesty? If your answer is yes then you cannot logically grasp why people think your opinion is so ridiculous. If your answer is no then you should realize college b-ball is cyclical for most programs and that's why it's so ridiculous to say these "never lose to Depaul" Statements.
I highlighted the crux of your statement for you...MU in a "rebuild" year. That also should never happen at MU. Are they a blue blood and can reload?? Of course not, but MU's program should be such(and the talent level should be good enough) that a "rebuild" year should at WORST have them in the bubble conversation.
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DePaul finished in last place.
Multiple Meh wins are big wins.
@ Minny is a huge win for a last place team.
So a team MU definitely shouldn’t lose to. Especially without their best player.....
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I highlighted the crux of your statement for you...MU in a "rebuild" year. That also should never happen at MU. Are they a blue blood and can reload?? Of course not, but MU's program should be such(and the talent level should be good enough) that a "rebuild" year should at WORST have them in the bubble conversation.
Ok all the same, if Depaul were to bring back the second coming of Aguirre and Cummings ranked no 1 and we were just another solid in the tournament team it still wouldn't be a travesty. This is why people find it so ridiculous for you to say "I don't care who they beat" because then you're essentially saying that even if they were undefeated ranked no1 and we were just another marquette team it should never happen.
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Ok all the same, if Depaul were to bring back the second coming of Aguirre and Cummings ranked no 1 and we were just another solid in the tournament team it still wouldn't be a travesty. This is why people find it so ridiculous for you to say "I don't care who they beat" because then you're essentially saying that even if they were undefeated ranked no1 and we were just another marquette team it should never happen.
But DePaul is nowhere near that level and hasn't been in a very long time. How about this then, in DePaul's current state, the same state they have been in for a decade, MU should NEVER lose to them. The fact that they have is an indictment on where the MU program is IMO.
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So a team MU definitely shouldn’t lose to. Especially without their best player.....
Says more about the toughness of the conference that anything.
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Says more about the toughness of the conference that anything.
Or a really bad team fell apart when they began facing familiar opponents....
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Or a really bad team fell apart when they began facing familiar opponents....
Minnesota? I think DePaul only played them once.....at their place....and won.
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But DePaul is nowhere near that level and hasn't been in a very long time. How about this then, in DePaul's current state, the same state they have been in for a decade, MU should NEVER lose to them. The fact that they have is an indictment on where the MU program is IMO.
Yeah that's a statement I can get behind. Last year at New Years I would've disagreed but then they took a big Depaul all over their season. beyond that, 2007 is the only year it would've been marginally understandable to lose to Depaul since we joined the Big East
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Minnesota? I think DePaul only played them once.....at their place....and won.
Yep you’re right. The team who went 3-15 in conference, but beat a couple teams with a pulse in November shouldn’t be considered a bad loss. Sounds about right!
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I honestly have never understood why it seems like natural instinct for people to always
prop up underestimate MU opponents. You see it constantly during the season with retorts like "this game will be tough should be a cakewalk etc etc". I don't know if it's people's way of them trying to justify a loss blame the coach for the loss to a lessor team, or some sort of comfort thing irrational expectation thing in their minds which then keeps them from criticizing a performance appreciating a victory and rather give the other team credit blame the home squad's coaching staff, but I wish more people would call a spade a spade, when it's appropriate. You see it from fans seemingly everywhere, but it seems like MU fans are towards the top of the pack for leading this charge. It's strange.
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I honestly have never understood why it seems like natural instinct for people to always prop up underestimate MU opponents. You see it constantly during the season with retorts like "this game will be tough should be a cakewalk etc etc". I don't know if it's people's way of them trying to justify a loss blame the coach for as loss to a lessor team, or some sort of comfort thing irrational expectation thing in their minds which then keeps them from criticizing a performance appreciating a victory and rather give the other team credit blame the home squad's coaching staff, but I wish more people would call a spade a spade, when it's appropriate. You see it from fans seemingly everywhere, but it seems like MU fans are towards the top of the pack for leading this charge. It's strange.
This is hilarious..thanks for the laugh old warrior, made actually made my point perfectly. Thank You.
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I think you're 100% right. However, our best team lost six of their last seven games, and now we're probably going to be even worse. How much longer are we going to have the same conversation?
Who are you hiring to replace him? Who is paying the buyout in these times? Who is coming here knowing how tough the conference is and making the NCAA tournament 3 of 4 years gives you your walking papers without one scandal? That list is probably a mile long, and even if there were some chaps waiting to take it they would be gone not too long with those expectations. No wonder MU coaches don't last too long.
Easy to demand changes from fans here that aren't paying the heavy bills.
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Wishing Mr. Bailey well. Maddeningly inconsistent, but he will be missed. Long arms, good rebounder, streaky shooting.
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I highlighted the crux of your statement for you...MU in a "rebuild" year. That also should never happen at MU. Are they a blue blood and can reload?? Of course not, but MU's program should be such(and the talent level should be good enough) that a "rebuild" year should at WORST have them in the bubble conversation.
Agreed. (MU is coming off an 8-10 conf record and now it’s rebuild? It seems like it’s been ‘rebuild’ for 7 yrs now.)
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Agreed. (MU is coming off an 8-10 conf record and now it’s rebuild? It seems like it’s been ‘rebuild’ for 7 yrs now.)
If you are making the NCAA tournament 3 of 4 years, those are not rebuilding years.
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Wishing Mr. Bailey well. Maddeningly inconsistent, but he will be missed. Long arms, good rebounder, streaky shooting.
So not a “Marquette all timer”?
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Agreed. (MU is coming off an 8-10 conf record and now it’s rebuild? It seems like it’s been ‘rebuild’ for 7 yrs now.)
I never indicated I was referring to next year. It was a hypothetical situation as why it made no sense to deal in absolutes about not losing to Depaul ever.
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I highlighted the crux of your statement for you...MU in a "rebuild" year. That also should never happen at MU. Are they a blue blood and can reload?? Of course not, but MU's program should be such(and the talent level should be good enough) that a "rebuild" year should at WORST have them in the bubble conversation.
[/quote)
North Carolina had a losing record this year. MU will have years where they are rebuilding.
Remove Markus and DePaul had more talent than MU last year.
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So a team MU definitely shouldn’t lose to. Especially without their best player.....
I was at that game. I don’t remember DePaul missing their best player.
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Yep you’re right. The team who went 3-15 in conference, but beat a couple teams with a pulse in November shouldn’t be considered a bad loss. Sounds about right!
You clearly do not know what you are talking about. Last year had two of the better upperclassmen players in the conference in Moore and Reed, and one of the best freshmen.
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I was at that game. I don’t remember DePaul missing their best player.
Do you see anyone missing from this box score?
https://barttorvik.com/box.php?muid=MarquetteDePaul3-3&year=2020
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It takes five rebuilds to judge.
Since Brent left the cupboard bare, Wojo just completed his first rebuild.
Patience, Golden Eagles. Patience.
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I was going to wish Brendan well, until I read on the Badger boards that the real reason he's not coming back is because he was paid by Joey H. to stay away so Wojo wouldn't have a year with no defections.
Good riddance, I say.
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If you are making the NCAA tournament 3 of 4 years, those are not rebuilding years.
its seems as if you are settling. At MU...No football to deal with. A very solid basketball history and tradition. Let’s set the bar higher than what’s been delivered since that last ncaa tourney win.
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its seems as if you are settling. At MU...No football to deal with. A very solid basketball history and tradition. Let’s set the bar higher than what’s been delivered since that last ncaa tourney win.
THANK YOU!! The thought that you quoted, permeates throughout the MU fan base. Likely always will for whatever reason. It's always been a mind boggling thing to me.
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THANK YOU!! The thought that you quoted, permeates throughout the MU fan base. Likely always will for whatever reason. It's always been a mind boggling thing to me.
Not everyone can be as irrational as you are.
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Not everyone can be as irrational as you are.
And then this is the common response...yawn.
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And then this is the common response...yawn.
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its seems as if you are settling. At MU...No football to deal with. A very solid basketball history and tradition. Let’s set the bar higher than what’s been delivered since that last ncaa tourney win.
You didn't answer the question. Who are you hiring to replace him? Who is paying the buyout? I might be on board with your call to arms, but I want to hear this plan rather than the same old tired argument that we are merely settling for NCAAs 3 in 4 years. If you know MU's history, 3 NCAAs every 4 years is above average for MU and not settling at all. Since our first berth in 1955, we have received 35 bids (we turned one down to the NIT and I'm going to say we got one this season). 35 bids in 65 years, barely 1 bid every 2 years.
But who are you hiring? Who is paying the freight for Wojo to go and pay the new guy? And why will a new guy come here knowing that our fans want him out if he only delivers mediocre results of 3 NCAAs every 4 years? Throw us a few names, please.
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If you are making the NCAA tournament 3 of 4 years, those are not rebuilding years.
If we were Providence, I'd agree. But is just making the tournament really the be-all? Is that the goal? 2004 and 2005 had their own issues, but we were still rebuilding with freshmen in 2006 and made the tournament. 2010 was unquestionably a rebuilding year and we made the tournament. Last year should've been an apex year, but the end result was less convincing than either of those rebuilding years.
Next year, without Bailey, we are now losing three starters and three of our top four scorers. That's a rebuild. I'd be overjoyed if it were as successful as 2006 or 2010, but I don't expect it.
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But who are you hiring? Who is paying the freight for Wojo to go and pay the new guy? And why will a new guy come here knowing that our fans want him out if he only delivers mediocre results of 3 NCAAs every 4 years? Throw us a few names, please.
I can understand believing Wojo has done a fine job and there is no reason to make a change. I don't understand the idea MU can not afford to make a change or that there are no qualified candidates. So this is the best MU can do and can never make a coaching change because they can't afford it? You must not think highly of MU. I 100% guaranty MU can afford to make a change.
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You didn't answer the question. Who are you hiring to replace him? Who is paying the buyout? I might be on board with your call to arms, but I want to hear this plan rather than the same old tired argument that we are merely settling for NCAAs 3 in 4 years. If you know MU's history, 3 NCAAs every 4 years is above average for MU and not settling at all. Since our first berth in 1955, we have received 35 bids (we turned one down to the NIT and I'm going to say we got one this season). 35 bids in 65 years, barely 1 bid every 2 years.
But who are you hiring? Who is paying the freight for Wojo to go and pay the new guy? And why will a new guy come here knowing that our fans want him out if he only delivers mediocre results of 3 NCAAs every 4 years? Throw us a few names, please.
I'm not suggesting Wojo is released. I have hope things will turn for the better. My point is simply that many MU hoops fans seem to be ok with a team that...quite frankly, has been what has been these past 7 seasons or so. Hence, why not set a higher standard? You are ok with the past 4 seasons? Come on, think bigger. If Wojo is coach, fine. But, Why can’t MU be a Blueblood once again? Why? If the roadblocks to elite status are insurmountable, so be it. But doesn’t it seem as if the majority are ok with the way things are? Look, we all love MU hoops. We all want to see Marquette dominate. So, let’s explore how that can happen. A winning tradition is there. Top shelf facilities? Check. Money? Check. Apathy? Unfortunately, check.
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I'm not suggesting Wojo is released. I have hope things will turn for the better. My point is simply that many MU hoops fans seem to be ok with a team that...quite frankly, has been what has been these past 7 seasons or so. Hence, why not set a higher standard? You are ok with the past 4 seasons? Come on, think bigger. If Wojo is coach, fine. But, Why can’t MU be a Blueblood once again? Why? If the roadblocks to elite status are insurmountable, so be it. But doesn’t it seem as if the majority are ok with the way things are? Look, we all love MU hoops. We all want to see Marquette dominate. So, let’s explore how that can happen. A winning tradition is there. Top shelf facilities? Check. Money? Check. Apathy? Unfortunately, check.
I think the end of this past season gave Wojo a bit of a reprieve because things were not trending positive when the season ended. Just before that, I had felt more frustration with Wojo than at any point of his tenure.
But anyway, to your point, becommming an elite program without cheating is difficult. You have to 1-Find the right coach, 2-Hope he develops the program, and 3-Doesn't leave for elsewhere.
In the last 10+ years, only two non-football schools have been able to accomplish this: Villanova and Gonzaga. So yeah, it most definitely is possible for Marquette to do it. It's just going to take a lot of hard work and luck. And IMO the Marquette administration believes that have found the right coach, and is in the midst of developing the program.
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I'm not suggesting Wojo is released. I have hope things will turn for the better. My point is simply that many MU hoops fans seem to be ok with a team that...quite frankly, has been what has been these past 7 seasons or so. Hence, why not set a higher standard? You are ok with the past 4 seasons? Come on, think bigger. If Wojo is coach, fine. But, Why can’t MU be a Blueblood once again? Why? If the roadblocks to elite status are insurmountable, so be it. But doesn’t it seem as if the majority are ok with the way things are? Look, we all love MU hoops. We all want to see Marquette dominate. So, let’s explore how that can happen. A winning tradition is there. Top shelf facilities? Check. Money? Check. Apathy? Unfortunately, check.
Apathy? Nearly every thread develops into a Wojo debate. That’s not apathy
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You didn't answer the question. Who are you hiring to replace him? Who is paying the buyout? I might be on board with your call to arms, but I want to hear this plan rather than the same old tired argument that we are merely settling for NCAAs 3 in 4 years. If you know MU's history, 3 NCAAs every 4 years is above average for MU and not settling at all. Since our first berth in 1955, we have received 35 bids (we turned one down to the NIT and I'm going to say we got one this season). 35 bids in 65 years, barely 1 bid every 2 years.
But who are you hiring? Who is paying the freight for Wojo to go and pay the new guy? And why will a new guy come here knowing that our fans want him out if he only delivers mediocre results of 3 NCAAs every 4 years? Throw us a few names, please.
a better measure would be NCAA bids since Al retired. We had a once-in-a-lifetime coach during a period where we were set up to be successful. When the Big East formed and southern football schools started pouring more money into their programs the landscape changed. UCLA, the one program better than us in the '70s, has not come anywhere close to replicating their success of that decade and ever will. MU is not a blueblood, we never will be. A 75% rate of making the tourney, 300+ programs in the country would take that in a second.
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A 75% rate of making the tourney, 300+ programs in the country would take that in a second.
You make some good points but 300+ programs in the country would take Marquette's basketball budget in a second also.
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You make some good points but 300+ programs in the country would take Marquette's basketball budget in a second also.
There is also 200+ programs that have no business being in D1 basketball
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I think the end of this past season gave Wojo a bit of a reprieve because things were not trending positive when the season ended. Just before that, I had felt more frustration with Wojo than at any point of his tenure.
But anyway, to your point, becommming an elite program without cheating is difficult. You have to 1-Find the right coach, 2-Hope he develops the program, and 3-Doesn't leave for elsewhere.
In the last 10+ years, only two non-football schools have been able to accomplish this: Villanova and Gonzaga. So yeah, it most definitely is possible for Marquette to do it. It's just going to take a lot of hard work and luck. And IMO the Marquette administration believes that have found the right coach, and is in the midst of developing the program.
i agree. Villanova and Gonzaga have been great, as you mention. Not entirely sure of their secret, but hopefully the MU administration has found the right guy in Wojo, and their loyalty to him pays off.
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There is also 200+ programs that have no business being in D1 basketball
Then who would Georgetown play? ;D
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Then who would Georgetown play? ;D
Touché
Condensing the available D1 spots would increase competition at the highest level. It would probably improve the product, players and coaching.
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Touché
Condensing the available D1 spots would increase competition at the highest level. It would probably improve the product, players and coaching.
I wouldn't be opposed to the P6 and some other schools (Gonzaga, Memphis, Cinci, etc.) splitting into a new division.
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I wouldn't be opposed to the P6 and some other schools (Gonzaga, Memphis, Cinci, etc.) splitting into a new division.
More schools than ever are trying to get to the D1 level. Mid-to-low majors have the deck stacked against them more than ever with 20-game conference seasons in the big boy leagues. I don’t see another Gonzaga happening in my lifetime.
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I wouldn't be opposed to the P6 and some other schools (Gonzaga, Memphis, Cinci, etc.) splitting into a new division.
I don't mind having some low majors. I see the value in cupcake games. But there's about 15 or 16 conferences that I think are better suited for D2. Would love to see the total # of schools in D1 reduced to the 125-175 range.
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More schools than ever are trying to get to the D1 level. Mid-to-low majors have the deck stacked against them more than ever with 20-game conference seasons in the big boy leagues. I don’t see another Gonzaga happening in my lifetime.
I would agree. Men's basketball is a great way to generate revenue for other non-revenue sports. Women's sports at lower levels would suffer. BUT, it would allow for compensation for some basketball and football players.
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I don't mind having some low majors. I see the value in cupcake games. But there's about 15 or 16 conferences that I think are better suited for D2. Would love to see the total # of schools in D1 reduced to the 125-175 range.
Another way to achieve this would be to reduce full scholarships from 13 to 10 and have the rest of the roster filled with walkons . That would push about 300 quality players ( top 100 teams) down to the mid and low majors. Would create some excitement for those schools over time.
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I can understand believing Wojo has done a fine job and there is no reason to make a change. I don't understand the idea MU can not afford to make a change or that there are no qualified candidates. So this is the best MU can do and can never make a coaching change because they can't afford it? You must not think highly of MU. I 100% guaranty MU can afford to make a change.
The people that usually make guarantees about things like that are rarely those that have enough money or power to do it themselves. They spend other people's money because they have no risk themselves to deal with and the fallout if it fails, means nothing so any half-brained idea is thrown out there. Let's hear the names that we would hire and who are whales that are guaranteed to step up to pay for him and pay for the buyout, all during an economic downturn. 100% guarantee I'd like to understand those details.
I think very highly of MU. The first goal should be to get to the NCAA tournament, which we have done 3 of the last 4 years. So many of you have said we are not able to recruit the kids coach Williams recruited, but you expect the same results despite the ingredients not allowed to be shopped for. This inconsistency still doesn't resonate with some here.
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a better measure would be NCAA bids since Al retired. We had a once-in-a-lifetime coach during a period where we were set up to be successful. When the Big East formed and southern football schools started pouring more money into their programs the landscape changed. UCLA, the one program better than us in the '70s, has not come anywhere close to replicating their success of that decade and ever will. MU is not a blueblood, we never will be. A 75% rate of making the tourney, 300+ programs in the country would take that in a second.
I lived it on campus. It was a special time, but also one that too many are unwilling to ever separate completely from who we are the man that coached here. They say they can and they say they are realistic, but deep down they cannot. Since Al retired Marquette has been to the NCAA tournament 22 times in 43 seasons. One of every two years. That is pretty darn good. Wojo has kept the averages in place with 3 bids in his 6 years and doing it (based on accounts here) by having to layoff some recruits Coach Crean and Coach Williams were allowed to go after.
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The people that usually make guarantees about things like that are rarely those that have enough money or power to do it themselves. They spend other people's money because they have no risk themselves to deal with and the fallout if it fails, means nothing so any half-brained idea is thrown out there. Let's hear the names that we would hire and who are whales that are guaranteed to step up to pay for him and pay for the buyout, all during an economic downturn. 100% guarantee I'd like to understand those details.
I think very highly of MU. The first goal should be to get to the NCAA tournament, which we have done 3 of the last 4 years. So many of you have said we are not able to recruit the kids coach Williams recruited, but you expect the same results despite the ingredients not allowed to be shopped for. This inconsistency still doesn't resonate with some here.
Making the tournament was never the goal during Crean/Buzz years, it was minimum expectation.
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I lived it on campus. It was a special time, but also one that too many are unwilling to ever separate completely from who we are the man that coached here. They say they can and they say they are realistic, but deep down they cannot. Since Al retired Marquette has been to the NCAA tournament 22 times in 43 seasons. One of every two years. That is pretty darn good. Wojo has kept the averages in place with 3 bids in his 6 years and doing it (based on accounts here) by having to layoff some recruits Coach Crean and Coach Williams were allowed to go after.
You realize a program like Gonzaga has been to the NCAA's like 17 straight years..stop and think about that...17 straight(or something like that) as opposed to MU making it 22 times in 43 years..How many times since 2000 has Wisconsin(of all programs made it since 2000?? AQll but like 2 years?? So 18 of their last 20 or so?? And you want to applaud a program like MU for making it 22 of 43 years?? Absolutely shameful.
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You realize a program like Gonzaga has been to the NCAA's like 17 straight years..stop and think about that...17 straight(or something like that) as opposed to MU making it 22 times in 43 years..How many times since 2000 has Wisconsin(of all programs made it since 2000?? AQll but like 2 years?? So 18 of their last 20 or so?? And you want to applaud a program like MU for making it 22 of 43 years?? Absolutely shameful.
What about before and ultimately after Few/Monson? It’s more about an extend Al period....?
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The people that usually make guarantees about things like that are rarely those that have enough money or power to do it themselves. They spend other people's money because they have no risk themselves to deal with and the fallout if it fails, means nothing so any half-brained idea is thrown out there. Let's hear the names that we would hire and who are whales that are guaranteed to step up to pay for him and pay for the buyout, all during an economic downturn. 100% guarantee I'd like to understand those details.
I think very highly of MU. The first goal should be to get to the NCAA tournament, which we have done 3 of the last 4 years. So many of you have said we are not able to recruit the kids coach Williams recruited, but you expect the same results despite the ingredients not allowed to be shopped for. This inconsistency still doesn't resonate with some here.
Can I pay for Wojo's payout? No. I can pay for a lot of it. Will I? No. I'm not convinced we need to yet.
To think MU is held hostage by Wojo's contract is crazy. If you think MU is that stupid, then another program might be a better option for you.
When or if Wojo is let go there will be 2 or 3 years left on his contract.
I know that MU has a list of potential replacements already in place. To even consider MU doesn't again is to assume they are stupid.
I guess I trust/know MU. You don't.
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You realize a program like Gonzaga has been to the NCAA's like 17 straight years..stop and think about that...17 straight(or something like that) as opposed to MU making it 22 times in 43 years..How many times since 2000 has Wisconsin(of all programs made it since 2000?? AQll but like 2 years?? So 18 of their last 20 or so?? And you want to applaud a program like MU for making it 22 of 43 years?? Absolutely shameful.
Yes and I think 3 or 4 others have. Which means 350 others haven't. There are always the exceptions to the rule.
Who are we hiring? Why cannot someone throw some names that are coming here. Who is paying the buyout and the new guy's salary, while also guaranteeing he stays 20+ years like Mark Few has since you used him in your example. Also, are we moving to the Horizon League to have a similar setup as Gonzaga?
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Yes and I think 3 or 4 others have. Which means 350 others haven't. There are always the exceptions to the rule.
Who are we hiring? Why cannot someone throw some names that are coming here. Who is paying the buyout and the new guy's salary, while also guaranteeing he stays 20+ years like Mark Few has since you used him in your example. Also, are we moving to the Horizon League to have a similar setup as Gonzaga?
https://unlvrebels.com/images/2019/7/10/Otzelberger_D72815_028.jpg?width=300
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Yes and I think 3 or 4 others have. Which means 350 others haven't. There are always the exceptions to the rule.
Who are we hiring? Why cannot someone throw some names that are coming here. Who is paying the buyout and the new guy's salary, while also guaranteeing he stays 20+ years like Mark Few has since you used him in your example. Also, are we moving to the Horizon League to have a similar setup as Gonzaga?
You always ask for names and it's nauseating. Those situations are always fluid. It depends on the landscape in that particular year. It makes NO sense..zero..none to "give you names" now, when it's not even an issue. If/when the time comes, and the landscape is known, then people can give you names. It's simple really.
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You always ask for names and it's nauseating. Those situations are always fluid. It depends on the landscape in that particular year. It makes NO sense..zero..none to "give you names" now, when it's not even an issue. If/when the time comes, and the landscape is known, then people can give you names. It's simple really.
+1
Any AD worth their paycheck has a list of names ready to go to fill their vacancies at any given time. I've provided such lists before, but depending on the timing, Wardle, TJO, Thad Matta, John Beilein, John Becker, Bob Richey, Kyle Keller, Scott Nagy, Craig Smith, and Chris Mooney are all guys that you could kick the tires on who wouldn't have completely prohibitive buyouts.
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+1
Any AD worth their paycheck has a list of names ready to go to fill their vacancies at any given time. I've provided such lists before, but depending on the timing, Wardle, TJO, Thad Matta, John Beilein, John Becker, Bob Richey, Kyle Keller, Scott Nagy, Craig Smith, and Chris Mooney are all guys that you could kick the tires on who wouldn't have completely prohibitive buyouts.
Cannot believe that Ners is not on your list, brewski!
Or is his buyout too high?
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Cannot believe that Ners is not on your list, brewski!
Or is his buyout too high?
Someone who can dunk would be good for noon ball...
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Someone who can dunk would be good for noon ball...
But you couldn't dunk in high school so how could ever possibly understand the intricacies of noon ball?
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Someone who claims they candunk would be good for noon ball...
FIFY
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+1
Any AD worth their paycheck has a list of names ready to go to fill their vacancies at any given time. I've provided such lists before, but depending on the timing, Wardle, TJO, Thad Matta, John Beilein, John Becker, Bob Richey, Kyle Keller, Scott Nagy, Craig Smith, and Chris Mooney are all guys that you could kick the tires on who wouldn't have completely prohibitive buyouts.
I'm sure a young buck somewhere has on his list a bunch of women he would like to date or more, but that doesn't mean much.
Most of the people on your list are over the hill or lateral moves at best. A few others would say no. But if they are on a list of our AD, that is great. TJO sure has some people excited, but he performed on average to what the last few South Dakota State coaches had done. He took over a NCAA team at SDSU and won their conference tournament in an upset to go to the NCAAs (finished 18-17). NCAA second year, NIT third year. The last guy that left SDSU, Scott Nagy, was supposed to be the deal and he's made it to one post season tournament in four years. I would like a longer track record with UNLV to see how TJO actually does.
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Can I pay for Wojo's payout? No. I can pay for a lot of it. Will I? No. I'm not convinced we need to yet.
To think MU is held hostage by Wojo's contract is crazy. If you think MU is that stupid, then another program might be a better option for you.
When or if Wojo is let go there will be 2 or 3 years left on his contract.
I know that MU has a list of potential replacements already in place. To even consider MU doesn't again is to assume they are stupid.
I guess I trust/know MU. You don't.
I do trust MU and they believe Coach Wojo is the guy. You don't.
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I'm sure a young buck somewhere has on his list a bunch of women he would like to date or more, but that doesn't mean much.
Most of the people on your list are over the hill or lateral moves at best. A few others would say no. But if they are on a list of our AD, that is great. TJO sure has some people excited, but he performed on average to what the last few South Dakota State coaches had done. He took over a NCAA team at SDSU and won their conference tournament in an upset to go to the NCAAs (finished 18-17). NCAA second year, NIT third year. The last guy that left SDSU, Scott Nagy, was supposed to be the deal and he's made it to one post season tournament in four years. I would like a longer track record with UNLV to see how TJO actually does.
You asked for a list, I gave a quick, off the top of my head list. If Wojo went, there are dozens of coaches that could replace him. Doesn't mean they'd do better or worse, but it's not like we'd have trouble filling the job.
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You asked for a list, I gave a quick, off the top of my head list. If Wojo went, there are dozens of coaches that could replace him. Doesn't mean they'd do better or worse, but it's not like we'd have trouble filling the job.
Exactly...let's not forget about this...https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/candid-coaches-which-school-is-the-most-underrated-job-in-college-basketball/
On Marquette
"The Marquette job, the resources are out of this world and they want to be really good. The facilities are getting even better and the brand new arena helps too. If you have even close to being good the support shows up too."
"Loyal, passionate fan base. Great tradition. No football. Pro city and they invest big time in hoops."
"Huge budget, passionate fans, NBA facility, history of pros, recruiting base but can recruit nationally.
There would be plenty of interest. And, I must say it seems Scholl is very good at identifying good Coaches with the hires he's made at MU thus far. And let's remember..Wojo was essentially Lovell's hire more than it was Scholl's hire.
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You asked for a list, I gave a quick, off the top of my head list. If Wojo went, there are dozens of coaches that could replace him. Doesn't mean they'd do better or worse, but it's not like we'd have trouble filling the job.
OK, give me a list that actually has coaches on it that would come to Marquette and be BETTER than Wojo so the constant niggles that people here drudge up daily can go away. Let's see that list.
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OK, give me a list that actually has coaches on it that would come to Marquette and be BETTER than Wojo so the constant niggles that people here drudge up daily can go away. Let's see that list.
Again...no one knows right now who might be willing to take the MU job, you don't, I don't, no one here knows. Stop asking for names! Who knows what the Coaching landscape at that time will look like. There could be guys that people think MU could never get, but they may have a tie to Scholl some how, or they may be disgruntled at their current job, maybe their wife is from the midwest and wants to move back, it could be any number of reasons a Coach someone(mostly you), thinks MU maybe can't get that could in fact be interested. It's all about timing. It's as simple as that.
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OK, give me a list that actually has coaches on it that would come to Marquette and be BETTER than Wojo so the constant niggles that people here drudge up daily can go away. Let's see that list.
TJO
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OK, give me a list that actually has coaches on it that would come to Marquette and be BETTER than Wojo so the constant niggles that people here drudge up daily can go away. Let's see that list.
1. Tony Bennett (He’s from Wisconsin)
2. Brad Stevens (Probably hates the NBA)
3. Dwyane Wade (Played at Marquette)
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1. Tony Bennett (He’s from Wisconsin)
2. Brad Stevens (Probably hates the NBA)
3. Dwyane Wade (Played at Marquette)
funny(u r joking, right?)
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OK, give me a list that actually has coaches on it that would come to Marquette and be BETTER than Wojo so the constant niggles that people here drudge up daily can go away. Let's see that list.
You already got it. Everyone on that list might meet both criteria, until we hire them & give them 5-15 years in the position, you never really know.
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1. Tony Bennett (He’s from Wisconsin)
2. Brad Stevens (Probably hates the NBA)
3. Dwyane Wade (Played at Marquette)
Wade has said numerous times he will not coach at any level, would not enjoy it.
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OK, give me a list that actually has coaches on it that would come to Marquette and be BETTER than Wojo so the constant niggles that people here drudge up daily can go away. Let's see that list.
Who knows who would be BETTER than Wojo? We didn’t KNOW KO would be BETTER than Dukiet, we just knew Dukiet wasn’t doing a good enough job. We didn’t KNOW Crean would be better than Deane, we just knew Deane wasn’t doing a good enough job. And we didn’t KNOW that Buzz would be better than Wojo and Crean when he was hired.
Bottom line, you don’t usually fire a coach because you have someone in the wings who will be BETTER. You don’t KNOW the next guy will be the guy, you’re just convinced the guy you’re firing isn’t.
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I do trust MU and they believe Coach Wojo is the guy. You don't.
MU believes in Wojo so they gave him a long term contract and significant raise......oh wait, they didn't.
It's cool you like Wojo but the facts don't support your position.
You don't even defend Wojo. You argue MU can't afford to get rid of him and there is no better alternative. What a sad argument for Wojo.
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Again...no one knows right now who might be willing to take the MU job, you don't, I don't, no one here knows. Stop asking for names! Who knows what the Coaching landscape at that time will look like. There could be guys that people think MU could never get, but they may have a tie to Scholl some how, or they may be disgruntled at their current job, maybe their wife is from the midwest and wants to move back, it could be any number of reasons a Coach someone(mostly you), thinks MU maybe can't get that could in fact be interested. It's all about timing. It's as simple as that.
I agree with you.
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MU believes in Wojo so they gave him a long term contract and significant raise......oh wait, they didn't.
It's cool you like Wojo but the facts don't support your position.
You don't even defend Wojo. You argue MU can't afford to get rid of him and there is no better alternative. What a sad argument for Wojo.
You seem to think college basketball coaching contracts are like MLB player contracts. John Calipari’s contract is considered a “lifetime contract” and it’s 10 years long. Wojo not having a contract through 2035 doesn’t mean MU doesn’t believe in Wojo.
You keep saying “the end is near.” How “near?” What will be the last season Wojo is on the sidelines at MU?
Wojo’s contract goes through 2024. Compare that to some of the highest paid college basketball coaches annually and you have Mick Cronin’s contract through 2025, Bill Self’s through 2022, Rick Barnes through 2024, Chris Beard through 2025, Chris Mack through 2025, Bob Huggins through 2022, Bruce Pearl through 2024, Larry Krystowiak through 2023, Gregg Marshall through 2022, etc.
Of the top 20 paid coaches in college basketball, only K, Roy, Cal, Altman, and Tony Bennett’s are more than one year longer than Wojo’s. I guess not many schools are very confident in their basketball coaches.
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Who knows who would be BETTER than Wojo? We didn’t KNOW KO would be BETTER than Dukiet, we just knew Dukiet wasn’t doing a good enough job. We didn’t KNOW Crean would be better than Deane, we just knew Deane wasn’t doing a good enough job. And we didn’t KNOW that Buzz would be better than Wojo and Crean when he was hired.
Bottom line, you don’t usually fire a coach because you have someone in the wings who will be BETTER. You don’t KNOW the next guy will be the guy, you’re just convinced the guy you’re firing isn’t.
I rather like this take, Lenny.
I don't believe MU administration is anywhere near convinced that Wojo has to go, but what you say is what almost always leads to a coach getting canned. It's almost always: Fire first, worry about the replacement later.
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You seem to think college basketball coaching contracts are like MLB player contracts. John Calipari’s contract is considered a “lifetime contract” and it’s 10 years long. Wojo not having a contract through 2035 doesn’t mean MU doesn’t believe in Wojo.
You keep saying “the end is near.” How “near?” What will be the last season Wojo is on the sidelines at MU?
Wojo’s contract goes through 2024. Compare that to some of the highest paid college basketball coaches annually and you have Mick Cronin’s contract through 2025, Bill Self’s through 2022, Rick Barnes through 2024, Chris Beard through 2025, Chris Mack through 2025, Bob Huggins through 2022, Bruce Pearl through 2024, Larry Krystowiak through 2023, Gregg Marshall through 2022, etc.
Of the top 20 paid coaches in college basketball, only K, Roy, Cal, Altman, and Tony Bennett’s are more than one year longer than Wojo’s. I guess not many schools are very confident in their basketball coaches.
You are missing the point. I don't care about WVU or UT. They may or may not be sold on their coach. MU is not. The school has wisely given themselves an easy out for a reason.
I was in favor of Wojo's last extention and don't want him fired now.
I don't agree with the ridiculous notion that MU is a hostage to Wojo. If Wojo only wins 8 games next year he will be gone. I don't expect that but I know MU can afford to pay him to go away and their are other coaches that would love the MU job.
At the end of the day my opinion and yours don't mean much. That's why i look to the known facts.
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You are missing the point. I don't care about WVU or UT. They may or may not be sold on their coach. MU is not. The school has wisely given themselves an easy out for a reason.
I was in favor of Wojo's last extention and don't want him fired now.
I don't agree with the ridiculous notion that MU is a hostage to Wojo. If Wojo only wins 8 games next year he will be gone. I don't expect that but I know MU can afford to pay him to go away and their are other coaches that would love the MU job.
At the end of the day my opinion and yours don't mean much. That's why i look to the known facts.
The known fact is unless you’re a top 5 coach in the world your contract isn’t going to be much longer than the one MU gave Wojo. That has nothing to do with their confidence level.
Also there’s no way to know whether MU could pay a Wojo’s buyout or not. Nobody here knows what the buyout is. And what’s happening in the world right now is certainly not helping the financial situations of any schools, especially schools like Marquette.
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The known fact is unless you’re a top 5 coach in the world your contract isn’t going to be much longer than the one MU gave Wojo. That has nothing to do with their confidence level.
Also there’s no way to know whether MU could pay a Wojo’s buyout or not. Nobody here knows what the buyout is. And what’s happening in the world right now is certainly not helping the financial situations of any schools, especially schools like Marquette.
Really good coaches sometimes don't want long term contracts so they will not have to pay a buyout. Some have automatic roll-overs. Some simply don't have to worry about job security.
But you are correct, most coaches are like Wojo and subject to getting axed with multiple years left on the contract.
I'm done arguing the notion that MU can't afford to payout Wojo's contract. This has to be the most ignorant position I've ever read on this board. Arguing that MU will win the next four National Championships has far more merritt than MU is a hostage to Wojo and can't come up with $6MM. (usually negotiated down and paid over many years).
Your logic is basically Wojo has a job for life because we can't payout his contract or MU will let him run out his contract which will be a program killer. Yep, MU is run by idiots.
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3. Dwyane Wade (Played at Marquette)
Hell yeah. NBA stars always work out as great coaches at their alma maters with no previous head coaching experience. Just ask Clyde Drexler, Chris Mullin, and Patrick Ewing.
Interestingly enough, all were in MU’s conference at the time too.
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Really good coaches sometimes don't want long term contracts so they will not have to pay a buyout. Some have automatic roll-overs. Some simply don't have to worry about job security.
But you are correct, most coaches are like Wojo and subject to getting axed with multiple years left on the contract.
I'm done arguing the notion that MU can't afford to payout Wojo's contract. This has to be the most ignorant position I've ever read on this board. Arguing that MU will win the next four National Championships has far more merritt than MU is a hostage to Wojo and can't come up with $6MM. (usually negotiated down and paid over many years).
Your logic is basically Wojo has a job for life because we can't payout his contract or MU will let him run out his contract which will be a program killer. Yep, MU is run by idiots.
I have no idea what Wojo's buyout is. It could be $5. It could be $25M. If it's the latter, MU is "hostage" to Wojo's contract. In case you've been living under a rock since January, what was once "affordable" is now impossible to pay in many areas of the world. At the moment, even if Marquette wanted out of Wojo's contract, if the buyout is substantial enough, it would be very difficult for Marquette to pay his buyout and then to pay a new coach (plus the coach's buyout at the other school, if he's under contract). Marquette being in tough times financially has nothing to do with idiots running the university. The worldwide economy is being killed right now.
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OK, give me a list that actually has coaches on it that would come to Marquette and be BETTER than Wojo so the constant niggles that people here drudge up daily can go away. Let's see that list.
Here is my list
None
That is why I am not on the fire Wojo band wagon.
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How many pages in this thread since any discussion of Bailey declaring?
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I'm done arguing the notion that MU can't afford to payout Wojo's contract. This has to be the most ignorant position I've ever read on this board. Arguing that MU will win the next four National Championships has far more merritt than MU is a hostage to Wojo and can't come up with $6MM. (usually negotiated down and paid over many years).
Your logic is basically Wojo has a job for life because we can't payout his contract or MU will let him run out his contract which will be a program killer. Yep, MU is run by idiots.
There's a difference between "can't fire Wojo now" and "can't fire Wojo ever." I think those bringing up the buyout are responding to those stating that Wojo should have been fired at the end of this season.
My expectation is that if next season is a bust, Wojo will be offered a contract extension in exchange for some renegotiating that will make it a lot easier to fire him the following year or the year after that. If he performs well after that, he'll earn a big fat contract extension. If he doesn't, he'll be let go with significantly less penalty to MU. He of course could get pissed and leave, but then MU gets rid of him with no penalty.
That's of course assuming that next season is a bust. I'm less hopeful than I was with Bailey in the fold but I still think a solid (for a rebuilding year) season is still very much possible. Of course everyone has a different definition of "bust" and "solid" so no matter what the result, some one will be disappointed.
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On Bailey, I am definitely disappointed he won't be playing for us. His loss lowers this team's ceiling (and it's floor). But as I've reflected on it, other than maybe Cain or Akanno (just because he's a giant ?), he may have been the most replaceable player on the roster. We just brought in 3 talented freshmen at this position, he was at best only few ticks better than Cain. I've long said that Cain posses more upside than anyone else on the roster. If he can finally put it all together it would do wonders for us next season.
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On Bailey, I am definitely disappointed he won't be playing for us. His loss lowers this team's ceiling (and it's floor). But as I've reflected on it, other than maybe Cain or Akanno (just because he's a giant ?), he may have been the most replaceable player on the roster. We just brought in 3 talented freshmen at this position, he was at best only few ticks better than Cain. I've long said that Cain posses more upside than anyone else on the roster. If he can finally put it all together it would do wonders for us next season.
The area where I think losing BB the most is the depth he would provide. Whether you think BB or Jamal was the better player, I think everyone would agree that they were both inconsistent, and one area that I think Wojo had improved is riding the hot hand. It's no coincidence that Jamal's season low in minutes came against Maryland, and BB's season low in minutes came against K-State. You had the option that if one was playing poorly to ride the other. We potentially still have that option depending on how "ready" Oso is, but I also think that it would be an extremely tough argument to make that in 20-21 Oso will be a more consistent player than BB would have been.
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I have no idea what Wojo's buyout is. It could be $5. It could be $25M. If it's the latter, MU is "hostage" to Wojo's contract. In case you've been living under a rock since January, what was once "affordable" is now impossible to pay in many areas of the world. At the moment, even if Marquette wanted out of Wojo's contract, if the buyout is substantial enough, it would be very difficult for Marquette to pay his buyout and then to pay a new coach (plus the coach's buyout at the other school, if he's under contract). Marquette being in tough times financially has nothing to do with idiots running the university. The worldwide economy is being killed right now.
Trust me, or better yet talk to an attorney, the contracting entity (MU) does NOT pay buyouts. MU has to pay Wojo $2MM per year over the next four years. They can tell him to sit at home but they still have to pay the $8MM. They don't even have to terminate the contract, they can simply hire another coach.
Plus there is usually a clause that if he takes another job, the salary from the new job would offset MU's obligation.
The contracted employee (Wojo) most likely has to pay a buyout if he terminates the contract to take a similar job.
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I have no idea what Wojo's buyout is. It could be $5. It could be $25M. If it's the latter, MU is "hostage" to Wojo's contract. In case you've been living under a rock since January, what was once "affordable" is now impossible to pay in many areas of the world. At the moment, even if Marquette wanted out of Wojo's contract, if the buyout is substantial enough, it would be very difficult for Marquette to pay his buyout and then to pay a new coach (plus the coach's buyout at the other school, if he's under contract). Marquette being in tough times financially has nothing to do with idiots running the university. The worldwide economy is being killed right now.
Wake Forest fired Danny Manning with a $15 million dollar buyout in the middle of a pandemic. I'd be willing to bet massive amounts of $$ Wojo's buyout is nowhere close to that...so if Wake can afford $15 mill(or a large negotiated settlement) MU certainly could if necessary.
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Wake Forest fired Danny Manning with a $15 million dollar buyout in the middle of a pandemic. I'd be willing to bet massive amounts of $$ Wojo's buyout is nowhere close to that...so if Wake can afford $15 mill(or a large negotiated settlement) MU certainly could if necessary.
As for Manning and his "buy out"
"As has been noted in the past, Manning’s buyout is significant. In Nov. 2018, Goodman reported that Manning’s buyout hovered around $18 million at the time, assumedly because the coach then had six years left on his deal, at an average of about $3 million per season. That same math would leave the current buyout number at $15 million, since “only” five years remain on the contract now."
Crazy how the "buy out" is the amount left on the contract.
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On Bailey, I am definitely disappointed he won't be playing for us. His loss lowers this team's ceiling (and it's floor). But as I've reflected on it, other than maybe Cain or Akanno (just because he's a giant ?), he may have been the most replaceable player on the roster. We just brought in 3 talented freshmen at this position, he was at best only few ticks better than Cain. I've long said that Cain posses more upside than anyone else on the roster. If he can finally put it all together it would do wonders for us next season.
I like Jamal. I am rooting for him. He is incredibly athletic. I also wouldn't count on a ton of improvement him. His basketball IQ is very low. Hope like hell he proves me wrong, because his talent is tantalizing.
I also don't think Bailey really plays the same position as the freshman. Those guys are college post players in NBA wing bodies. Bailey is a lanky guard that happens to be 6 foot 8. I don't think Bailey would have a played much in the post next season.
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Wake Forest fired Danny Manning with a $15 million dollar buyout in the middle of a pandemic. I'd be willing to bet massive amounts of $$ Wojo's buyout is nowhere close to that...so if Wake can afford $15 mill(or a large negotiated settlement) MU certainly could if necessary.
as far as we know. There may be some Kevin Ollie like "for cause" issues involved (which has been rumored). Wake also likely has more deep-pocketed donors and is a wealthier school than MU.
Don't forget that MU furloughed 250 employees, including athletics staff. There isn't a ton of money floating around to buy out a coach who *only* wins 20 games a year and pay even more for another one.
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Here is my list
None
That is why I am not on the fire Wojo band wagon.
Same here.
Some of the examples given are names thrown against the wall.
This is a good job, but it has led to hiring three assistants and one mid major coach of late. Based on that history alone the people banging down our door are not who people hope.
And Deane was fired because he could not recruit, he had off court problems, publicly ridiculed his boss at several M Club functions and the Blue and Gold Classic. He was trending down. Wojo fits no profile like that.
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Wake Forest fired Danny Manning with a $15 million dollar buyout in the middle of a pandemic. I'd be willing to bet massive amounts of $$ Wojo's buyout is nowhere close to that...so if Wake can afford $15 mill(or a large negotiated settlement) MU certainly could if necessary.
So all schools are the same, all have the same budgets, benefactor deep pockets and the like?
Manning was a disaster. Wojo is anything but and then notion that this is even a topic is twilight zone stuff.
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So all schools are the same, all have the same budgets, benefactor deep pockets and the like?
Manning was a disaster. Wojo is anything but and then notion that this is even a topic is twilight zone stuff.
If the only expectations you have for a Coach are to have good kids, graduate them and represent the University well, you're right, he isnt anything close to a disaster in that regard. Now, if you are okay with a Coach being below .500 in conference overall, having two late season meltdowns,pissing awaywhat should have been a conference title in one of them, not winning an NCAA tournament game in his tenure, if those are your only expectations, then yes, you're right again, he hasn't been a disaster. Congratulations.
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Who knows who would be BETTER than Wojo? We didn’t KNOW KO would be BETTER than Dukiet, we just knew Dukiet wasn’t doing a good enough job. We didn’t KNOW Crean would be better than Deane, we just knew Deane wasn’t doing a good enough job. And we didn’t KNOW that Buzz would be better than Wojo and Crean when he was hired.
Bottom line, you don’t usually fire a coach because you have someone in the wings who will be BETTER. You don’t KNOW the next guy will be the guy, you’re just convinced the guy you’re firing isn’t.
Couldn’t say it any better. Now wipe your nose, Cheeks
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So all schools are the same, all have the same budgets, benefactor deep pockets and the like?
Manning was a disaster. Wojo is anything but and then notion that this is even a topic is twilight zone stuff.
The reason it is a topic is that people assert Wojo can't be replaced because MU can't afford it. That is 100% untrue and "twilight zone stuff".
Should he be replaced? Reasonable people can disagree about this. IMO I say no right now.
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The reason it is a topic is that people assert Wojo can't be replaced because MU can't afford it Right Now. That is 100% untrue and "twilight zone stuff".
Should he be replaced? Reasonable people can disagree about this. IMO I say no right now.
Again, there is a difference between "can't fire right now" and "can't fire ever". I don't think I've seen anyone argue that Wojo can never be fired because of cost.
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Again, there is a difference between "can't fire right now" and "can't fire ever". I don't think I've seen anyone argue that Wojo can never be fired because of cost.
Okay, but Wojo didn't get fired this year, next year he'll have 3 years left and MU should (I'd say need) make a decision so he's not recruiting players that will not be here past his contract. MU can and will cut bait with him next year if need be. This University is not poor or run by idiots.
I guess I wrongly assumed that Wojo will be here next year. If the argument is that Wojo can't be fired now, I would agree only because of the time of year. I still 100% know that MU could do it but it would be unwise. But, as I said, I don't want him fired.
It is completely pathetic to support Wojo under the belief that MU can't afford to change coaches (very NoJo) or that there is no one who could replace him. How about supporting him because you think he's good or will be good?
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The reason it is a topic is that people assert Wojo can't be replaced because MU can't afford it. That is 100% untrue and "twilight zone stuff".
Should he be replaced? Reasonable people can disagree about this. IMO I say no right now.
Who here has said he cannot ever be fired? You also keep talking about this hostage contract situation. Who is making that claim? From an optics view, firing him now would be very difficult, but the school has the money if they wanted. More than likely needing some big pocket alum to assist. I am only asking who it is that steps up to pay it? And how is MU going to take that very dumb PR hit in a COVID world to dump a coach that is going to the NCAA tournament, seems to run a clean program? People here begging him to leave or get fired are not paying attention to the world.
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15 years ta judge, aina?
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Who here has said he cannot ever be fired? You also keep talking about this hostage contract situation. Who is making that claim? From an optics view, firing him now would be very difficult, but the school has the money if they wanted. More than likely needing some big pocket alum to assist. I am only asking who it is that steps up to pay it? And how is MU going to take that very dumb PR hit in a COVID world to dump a coach that is going to the NCAA tournament, seems to run a clean program? People here begging him to leave or get fired are not paying attention to the world.
Agreed MU can afford to get rid of Wojo.
Agreed, no reason to fire Wojo.
The need for boosters to payout Wojo, not even close to the truth. That is a cheap slap in the face of MU's administration.
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Yes and I think 3 or 4 others have. Which means 350 others haven't. There are always the exceptions to the rule.
Who are we hiring? Why cannot someone throw some names that are coming here. Who is paying the buyout and the new guy's salary, while also guaranteeing he stays 20+ years like Mark Few has since you used him in your example. Also, are we moving to the Horizon League to have a similar setup as Gonzaga?
set your expectations higher. Your team is high level D-1 yet your expectations are mid-major.
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set your expectations higher. Your team is high level D-1 yet your expectations are mid-major.
+1...now he's going to recite the same, tired old "but 300 other schools think the same way etc etc etc".
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If the only expectations you have for a Coach are to have good kids, graduate them and represent the University well, you're right, he isnt anything close to a disaster in that regard. Now, if you are okay with a Coach being below .500 in conference overall, having two late season meltdowns,pissing awaywhat should have been a conference title in one of them, not winning an NCAA tournament game in his tenure, if those are your only expectations, then yes, you're right again, he hasn't been a disaster. Congratulations.
Take a walk and take a break from the boards.
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Take a walk and take a break from the boards.
Okay, I took the walk, any big MU news happen while I was gone?? Get a commit, schedule news?? Anything?? Oh...I guess not. Keep waiting and waiting and waiting...nothing. If I/we had real MU news to discuss, we wouldn't have to talk about things like this.
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Marquette didn't get a verbal until July 24th last year.
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set your expectations higher. Your team is high level D-1 yet your expectations are mid-major.
My expectations are set high. Some of you remind me of the types that run around saying Marquette is a great academic school. We are a good academic school with some great and some average programs. We are a good basketball program that has had great and average periods.
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Marquette didn't get a verbal until July 24th last year.
Correct, but these are different times..more top 150's have already committed earlier than at anytime in history. was hoping MU would have gotten one by now.
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The need for boosters to payout Wojo, not even close to the truth. That is a cheap slap in the face of MU's administration.
I am not sure I agree with this, especially in this Covid environment. MU basketball might lose a lot of money this year. Stock market and economic down turn is likely to be reflected in overall donations received. I am sure Blue and Gold fund has money, but that is suppose to be for scholarships.
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I am not sure I agree with this, especially in this Covid environment. MU basketball might lose a lot of money this year. Stock market and economic down turn is likely to be reflected in overall donations received. I am sure Blue and Gold fund has money, but that is suppose to be for scholarships.
IF we were to assume this is true, Wojo is our guy because we can't afford to get rid of him? That is sad for Wojo and MU.
I don't want him fired. But to think he has a job because MU was too stupid with their finances is pathetic.
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For someone who repeatedly says that he doesn't want Wojo fired right now, it seems strange to continue to dig in with your argument that the University could afford to fire him. If you don't want him fired, and you also understand the fact that he's not going to be fired before next season, why continue with this?
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For someone who repeatedly says that he doesn't want Wojo fired right now, it seems strange to continue to dig in with your argument that the University could afford to fire him. If you don't want him fired, and you also understand the fact that he's not going to be fired before next season, why continue with this?
Because I don't like people denigrating my school. MU is a great school and not run by a bunch of idiots like those people like to claim.
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Because I don't like people denigrating my school. MU is a great school and not run by a bunch of idiots like those people like to claim.
Now granted I haven't read every comment because I have some Chicos on ignore, but I don't think I've seen anyone say that the administration or BOT are "idiots".
I'm just saying it seems like a bit of a contradictory argument saying that you don't want him fired, but the University could fire him. Since he's not going to be fired (at least this year), why do you care?
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IF we were to assume this is true, Wojo is our guy because we can't afford to get rid of him? That is sad for Wojo and MU.
I don't want him fired. But to think he has a job because MU was too stupid with their finances is pathetic.
Because I don't like people denigrating my school. MU is a great school and not run by a bunch of idiots like those people like to claim.
Stop acting like Marquette University should've known and prepared for a worldwide pandemic. This isn't unique to Marquette University. Marquette is in a very tough spot. So are all similar schools. It has nothing to do with Wojo, his contract, his buyout, or anything else.
Schools, budgets, programs, staff, etc. are being cut all over the place. Students are expected back on campus for the fall semester, but nobody knows for sure that that's going to happen. And if it doesn't it's a huge problem for colleges.
I don't know what's hard to understand about this. It's happening in all sectors all over the world. I guess the virus is exposing the fact that idiots run the world.
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My expectations are set high. Some of you remind me of the types that run around saying Marquette is a great academic school. We are a good academic school with some great and some average programs. We are a good basketball program that has had great and average periods.
...doesn’t seem like it. You want MU to win...we all do. But you appear ok with the 3of4 seasons in the ncaa. A lot of us dig deeper. 0 freakin’ ncaa tourney wins in what, 7 yrs? Late season flameouts. In game bizarre strategy...or worse...not knowing the score. Academics? Most schools can say good or excellent depending on the program. But I digress...MU hoops has the tools to win bigly, but it really isn’t happening. Many of us wonder why, and how better results can be achieved.
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Now granted I haven't read every comment because I have some Chicos on ignore, but I don't think I've seen anyone say that the administration or BOT are "idiots".
I'm just saying it seems like a bit of a contradictory argument saying that you don't want him fired, but the University could fire him. Since he's not going to be fired (at least this year), why do you care?
I don't see any contradiction. I'm guessing Nova could afford to fire Wright but why would they?
Wojo is our coach because MU believes in him, not because MU is a hostage to his contract.
If people want to believe otherwise. I think they are anti-Wojo. And I'd feel bad for Wojo knowing he only has a job because MU can't afford a better alternative.
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Stop acting like Marquette University should've known and prepared for a worldwide pandemic. This isn't unique to Marquette University. Marquette is in a very tough spot. So are all similar schools. It has nothing to do with Wojo, his contract, his buyout, or anything else.
Schools, budgets, programs, staff, etc. are being cut all over the place. Students are expected back on campus for the fall semester, but nobody knows for sure that that's going to happen. And if it doesn't it's a huge problem for colleges.
I don't know what's hard to understand about this. It's happening in all sectors all over the world. I guess the virus is exposing the fact that idiots run the world.
So if Wojo went 5-25 last year and had only 2 star recruits he'd be back?
Get real, MU can afford to make a change. Wojo is at MU because they want him to be.
You may not like Wojo but MU does.
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I don't see any contradiction. I'm guessing Nova could afford to fire Wright but why would they?
Wojo is our coach because MU believes in him, not because MU is a hostage to his contract.
If people want to believe otherwise. I think they are anti-Wojo. And I'd feel bad for Wojo knowing he only has a job because MU can't afford a better alternative.
I guess technically you're not wrong, but it seems a bit trivial to grind your heels in this much about things that the University could do, but won't. Also, don't take this the wrong way, but it gives the impression of trying to play both sides of the fence, when you're going around proclaiming that we won't make the tournament next year,and Wojo isn't the guy for the job, but you don't want Wojo fired, but he could be fired if the University wants to. Not everything is black and white, but you seem to be firing wildly at every end of the spectrum.
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...doesn’t seem like it. You want MU to win...we all do. But you appear ok with the 3of4 seasons in the ncaa. A lot of us dig deeper. 0 freakin’ ncaa tourney wins in what, 7 yrs? Late season flameouts. In game bizarre strategy...or worse...not knowing the score. Academics? Most schools can say good or excellent depending on the program. But I digress...MU hoops has the tools to win bigly, but it really isn’t happening. Many of us wonder why, and how better results can be achieved.
He made a mistake in a game and he owned up to. Coach McGuire cost us games by landing dumb technical fouls, and he admitted those mistakes. You can harp on that Wojo mistake until the end of time, but it didn't cost us the game. We got to OT and lost.
3of4 seasons is better than Marquette's historical average. One can only surmise that you have been more often disappointed than happy with the program as a result. We are in a new conference now with restrictions put into place recruiting according to those in the know here at Scoop. Those restrictions caused the previous coach to leave and not do very well in his last season. Those same restrictions are over Wojo's head and he is doing pretty good. You keep comparing previous regimes that were under different rules. How do you know how this staff would do if they were allowed to recruit the same without those restrictions? It does not appear to me that you are comparing two similar things, at least not when you get below the surface on what apparently the administration is allowing.
Unless you are to tell us that all of these Scoop insiders are wrong and Coach Williams leaving because of those restrictions is wrong. Someone has to pick a fact pattern at some point and stick to it.
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I guess technically you're not wrong, but it seems a bit trivial to grind your heels in this much about things that the University could do, but won't. Also, don't take this the wrong way, but it gives the impression of trying to play both sides of the fence, when you're going around proclaiming that we won't make the tournament next year,and Wojo isn't the guy for the job, but you don't want Wojo fired, but he could be fired if the University wants to. Not everything is black and white, but you seem to be firing wildly at every end of the spectrum.
You are right, I have serious concerns about Wojo as our head coach. If I had to bet money, I think he is in his last year. Just one man's opinion and I hope I am wrong.
I guess I'm guilty of having more faith in Marquette University than I do in Wojo.
I don't think believing in MU and not as much in Wojo is playing both sides of the fence. We're those MU fans in favor of replacing Deane playing both sides of the fence?
Wojo will not be at MU someday (by his choice or not) but MU will continue and I will always be an alum and fan of MU.
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You are right, I have serious concerns about Wojo as our head coach. If I had to bet money, I think he is in his last year. Just one man's opinion and I hope I am wrong.
I guess I'm guilty of having more faith in Marquette University than I do in Wojo.
I don't think believing in MU and not as much in Wojo is playing both sides of the fence. We're those MU fans in favor of replacing Deane playing both sides of the fence?
Wojo will not be at MU someday (by his choice or not) but MU will continue and I will always be an alum and fan of MU.
I guess I'm just having a difficult time following your thought process. If you don't think Wojo is the guy for the job, and think that he will be gone after next year (It's fine if you have these opinions BTW), then why do you think that there is no reason to fire him?
You may not be doing this intentionally, but it sure seems like if Wojo succeeds you can go and say that you never thought that he should have been fired. And if Wojo fails, you can say that you thought that he wasn't the guy for the job. To me, that is playing both sides of the fence.
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I guess I'm just having a difficult time following your thought process. If you don't think Wojo is the guy for the job, and think that he will be gone after next year (It's fine if you have these opinions BTW), then why do you think that there is no reason to fire him?
You may not be doing this intentionally, but it sure seems like if Wojo succeeds you can go and say that you never thought that he should have been fired. And if Wojo fails, you can say that you thought that he wasn't the guy for the job. To me, that is playing both sides of the fence.
Okay, so there are two separate issue. There is me, some random internet yahoo, who hopes but doesn't have great faith Wojo will work out.
The second, and main issue, is that somehow MU has backed themselves into a corner that will not allow them to replace Wojo. I think that is terribly unfair to both Wojo and MU.
The facts don't support the claims we are stuck with Wojo. He is liked by MU and MU could change coaches if they wanted to
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Okay, so there are two separate issue. There is me, some random internet yahoo, who hopes but doesn't have great faith Wojo will work out.
The second, and main issue, is that somehow MU has backed themselves into a corner that will not allow them to replace Wojo. I think that is terribly unfair to both Wojo and MU.
The facts don't support the claims we are stuck with Wojo. He is liked by MU and MU could change coaches if they wanted to
Again, haven't read every comment, but I haven't seen anyone say this. I've seen people suggest that it would be more difficult to fire him because of the current state of the economy, which no one could have predicted. I've seen suggestions that the next time his contract is looked at, it may be restructured to include a buyout that is more favorable to the University (both because of the economic situation, as well as to put Wojo on notice that the overall results aren't up to standards), but I don't think I've seen someone suggest that he is un-fireable.
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Okay, so there are two separate issue. There is me, some random internet yahoo, who hopes but doesn't have great faith Wojo will work out.
The second, and main issue, is that somehow MU has backed themselves into a corner that will not allow them to replace Wojo. I think that is terribly unfair to both Wojo and MU.
The facts don't support the claims we are stuck with Wojo. He is liked by MU and MU could change coaches if they wanted to
Unfair? It sounds like smart Wojo and dumb MU to me.
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Because I don't like people denigrating my school. MU is a great school and not run by a bunch of idiots like those people like to claim.
He may not be an idiot, but it's my opinion that Lovell simply doesn't care about the basketball program as much as say Father Wild did. That's not to say he's disinterested, but I don't necessarily think he places a high priority on the basketball program being nationally prominent the way Father Wild did.
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Unfair? It sounds like smart Wojo and dumb MU to me.
Maybe, but definitely a recipe for Wojo getting axed and the same for MU's AD.
MU should hire Wojo's agent?
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He may not be an idiot, but it's my opinion that Lovell simply doesn't care about the basketball program as much as say Father Wild did. That's not to say he's disinterested, but I don't necessarily think he places a high priority on the basketball program being nationally prominent the way Father Wild did.
You maybe right. But we're arguing apples and oranges. Should they let him go? I don't think so.
Can they afford to let him go? 100% Yes.
Sorry some Wojo lovers can't accept that if MU wants to make a change that they can and will. Or I think some of those posters dislike MU and like to paint MU in a bad light.
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He made a mistake in a game and he owned up to. Coach McGuire cost us games by landing dumb technical fouls, and he admitted those mistakes. You can harp on that Wojo mistake until the end of time, but it didn't cost us the game. We got to OT and lost.
3of4 seasons is better than Marquette's historical average. One can only surmise that you have been more often disappointed than happy with the program as a result. We are in a new conference now with restrictions put into place recruiting according to those in the know here at Scoop. Those restrictions caused the previous coach to leave and not do very well in his last season. Those same restrictions are over Wojo's head and he is doing pretty good. You keep comparing previous regimes that were under different rules. How do you know how this staff would do if they were allowed to recruit the same without those restrictions? It does not appear to me that you are comparing two similar things, at least not when you get below the surface on what apparently the administration is allowing.
Unless you are to tell us that all of these Scoop insiders are wrong and Coach Williams leaving because of those restrictions is wrong. Someone has to pick a fact pattern at some point and stick to it.
come on now, don’t go AL when it comes to Wojo. Yeah, AL got jacked twice in the ‘74 title game vs NC State, but MU was only looking up at UCLA in the ‘70’s. AL is forgiven. Is Wojo even Mike Deane? Rimming.
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So if Wojo went 5-25 last year and had only 2 star recruits he'd be back?
Get real, MU can afford to make a change. Wojo is at MU because they want him to be.
You may not like Wojo but MU does.
Both things can be true. Administration can be generally happy with Wojo and in tight financial straits. They don't want to get rid of him and it would be a very hard economic hit on a school that can't really afford it.
If it was a disaster, such as that 5-25 & hemorrhaging support or something bordering on for cause, then it would be a different discussion, but it isn't.
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Both things can be true. Administration can be generally happy with Wojo and in tight financial straits. They don't want to get rid of him and it would be a very hard economic hit on a school that can't really afford it.
If it was a disaster, such as that 5-25 & hemorrhaging support or something bordering on for cause, then it would be a different discussion, but it isn't.
Uhhg! Now I get why some posters talk about 'moving the goal post'.
Of course we didn't win 5 games. The whole point is to point out the ubserdity that MU can't afford to replace Wojo.
Once again, I still want Wojo. MU still wants Wojo. Wojo is our coach because we want him not because we can't afford to replace him.
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come on now, don’t go AL when it comes to Wojo. Yeah, AL got jacked twice in the ‘74 title game vs NC State, but MU was only looking up at UCLA in the ‘70’s. AL is forgiven. Is Wojo even Mike Deane? Rimming.
Al was a coaching legend and the best MU will ever have. He was part of my youth and permanently emblazoned in my memories. He made mistakes, too. He admitted them. Wojo made mistakes. He admitted them. Al was a head coach for 7 years before coming to MU. I don't care how small a school it is, that is on the job training. Wojo has done his 6 years as head coach all at MU. I wish he had 5 to 7 years before coming to MU, but he didn't. As a result we get the good with the bad.
I can think of several games that Al admitted his temper likely cost us key games. He was an Irish hot head, and a brilliant one at that. MU was not only looking at UCLA in the 70's. On wins and losses, yes, but we were an independent which benefited us greatly. I would put us at 4th or 5th overall in the decade. Still amazing. Is Wojo even Mike Deane? You want me to take you seriously and you respond with that rhetorical question?
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Uhhg! Now I get why some posters talk about 'moving the goal post'.
Of course we didn't win 5 games. The whole point is to point out the ubserdity that MU can't afford to replace Wojo.
Once again, I still want Wojo. MU still wants Wojo. Wojo is our coach because we want him not because we can't afford to replace him.
I don't think anyone has said MU can't afford to replace Wojo. I do think people have said that it would a huge financial burden for the university to take on, as well as a PR hit given that MU had had to furlough hundreds of employees, and certainly not worth it when considering the results that Wojo has brought in. If the results Wojo brought in were worse, maybe it would be worth it.
If you can find me one person who is arguing that MU would fire Wojo if the buyout was lower then I'll apologize...but I think you are making a strawman argument.
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I don't think anyone has said MU can't afford to replace Wojo. I do think people have said that it would a huge financial burden for the university to take on, as well as a PR hit given that MU had had to furlough hundreds of employees, and certainly not worth it when considering the results that Wojo has brought in. If the results Wojo brought in were worse, maybe it would be worth it.
If you can find me one person who is arguing that MU would fire Wojo if the buyout was lower then I'll apologize...but I think you are making a strawman argument.
Very solid post.
I think you and I have fairly similar opinions and frustrations about the Wojo era. But I stand by my assertion that very, very, very few universities -- and even fewer (if any) non-bluebloods -- would fire a coach with Wojo's record these last 5 years.
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Very solid post.
I think you and I have fairly similar opinions and frustrations about the Wojo era. But I stand by my assertion that very, very, very few universities -- and even fewer (if any) non-bluebloods -- would fire a coach with Wojo's record these last 5 years.
MU's slogan is "be the difference", maybe they should apply that to this situation in the next year or two depending on how things go. Do something most schools wouldn't do.."be the difference".
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MU's slogan is "be the difference", maybe they should apply that to this situation in the next year or two depending on how things go. Do something most schools wouldn't do.."be the difference".
I suggest you take the time to craft a letter to Mike Lovell stating your case. There isn't a single Scooper who can do a thing about it.
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Just don't sign it Iceman.
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I don't think anyone has said MU can't afford to replace Wojo. I do think people have said that it would a huge financial burden for the university to take on, as well as a PR hit given that MU had had to furlough hundreds of employees, and certainly not worth it when considering the results that Wojo has brought in. If the results Wojo brought in were worse, maybe it would be worth it.
If you can find me one person who is arguing that MU would fire Wojo if the buyout was lower then I'll apologize...but I think you are making a strawman argument.
Now you are the one creating a strawman argument. Nobody has argued that we should fire him if the payout was lower. Posters, like from WarriorDad, argued we can't replace him because we can't afford to. He's ProJo and making a case to keep him. I am only pointing out the falicy of that position.
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Brendan Bailey can’t fire Wojo but he did declare for the draft and is turning pro. Good luck, BB
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Now you are the one creating a strawman argument. Nobody has argued that we should fire him if the payout was lower. Posters, like from WarriorDad, argued we can't replace him because we can't afford to. He's ProJo and making a case to keep him. I am only pointing out the falicy of that position.
I said nothing of the kind. In fact, I said MU could pay his buyout, but does it make sense? Optically and based on performance? No. You may be able to purchase a $100k car today, but would it be wise considering other priorities? This is why I asked who would pay the buyout. Not because MU cannot, but because MU has more important needs to spend the money on.
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Now you are the one creating a strawman argument. Nobody has argued that we should fire him if the payout was lower. Posters, like from WarriorDad, argued we can't replace him because we can't afford to. He's ProJo and making a case to keep him. I am only pointing out the falicy of that position.
I honestly don't think Chicos or anyone else has made the argument that you claim they are making
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I said nothing of the kind. In fact, I said MU could pay his buyout, but does it make sense? Optically and based on performance? No. You may be able to purchase a $100k car today, but would it be wise considering other priorities? This is why I asked who would pay the buyout. Not because MU cannot, but because MU has more important needs to spend the money on.
You should go into politics. You can twist ideas into a pretzel.
You may or may not like Wojo but he doesn't have his job because of COVID and the economy. He's our coach because MU believes in him.
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Just don't sign it Iceman.
For some reason Ted, with all the other negative comments people post about Wojo, you always seem to choose mine to reply to in your typical snarky way. The thing is, what I posted was an (obviously failed) attempt at humor. Quite frankly, I have warmed up to Wojo a bit based mostly on this recruiting class, and have said that this year more than any other, we will find out how good of a coach he is. I'm not expecting a tournament team(which kills me to say quite honestly), but perhaps we will see some growth in him as a Coach. that's what I'm hoping for. I have also said repeatedly, I don't care if Wojo is the Coach or Cookie monster is the coach, whoever it is, if they can bring a National Championship back to MU at some point(preferably sooner rather than later), that's all I really care about. Not who it is, just that it happens(hopefully).
Anyway, I'm quite frankly annoyed that these threads turn into Wojo bashing threads. It's almost without fail. It's why more than anything else I am hoping for a commit or schedule news or something very soon, so we can discuss something else. Although strangely, even when things like that happen, it's odd because people might make a comment and then it's over with. they'd rather talk about things like this I guess.
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I honestly don't think Chicos or anyone else has made the argument that you claim they are making
"This is why I asked who would pay the buyout. Not because MU cannot, but because MU has more important needs to spend the money on."
I don't know how you can read this any other way. Why would Warrior Dad make this claim if not to assert that Wojo is our coach because MU can't afford the payout of his contract? MU needs boosters to afford firing him? MU would forgo other needs to afford letting Wojo go? That is BS.
I'll let it go, knowing MU is comfortably capable of firing Wojo when or if needed.
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You should go into politics. You can twist ideas into a pretzel.
You may or may not like Wojo but he doesn't have his job because of COVID and the economy. He's our coach because MU believes in him.
I believe in him as does the university. They should, in my opinion. There is no reason for me not to support him. If he has some bad years, then I will reconsider.
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"This is why I asked who would pay the buyout. Not because MU cannot, but because MU has more important needs to spend the money on."
I don't know how you can read this any other way. Why would Warrior Dad make this claim if not to assert that Wojo is our coach because MU can't afford the payout of his contract? MU needs boosters to afford firing him? MU would forgo other needs to afford letting Wojo go? That is BS.
I'll let it go, knowing MU is comfortably capable of firing Wojo when or if needed.
You are reading it incorrectly and have from the start.
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"This is why I asked who would pay the buyout. Not because MU cannot, but because MU has more important needs to spend the money on."
I don't know how you can read this any other way. Why would Warrior Dad make this claim if not to assert that Wojo is our coach because MU can't afford the payout of his contract? MU needs boosters to afford firing him? MU would forgo other needs to afford letting Wojo go? That is BS.
I'll let it go, knowing MU is comfortably capable of firing Wojo when or if needed.
I think that pretty clearly states that MU could afford to fire him but has more pressing needs than spending millions on firing an average performing basketball coach. If he was worse, there might be a more pressing need. It's one reason among many reasons why Wojo wasn't fired last season.
I also think you overestimate the university's financial situation post covid. $6 million+ is not chump change. I'm not saying it will keep MU from making a move if they need to, but acting like it is a drop in the bucket is not correct. I anticipate that we will see Wojo get extended next season regardless of the results. But if the results are bad, the new contract will have some university friendly terms for ending the contract early.
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I think that pretty clearly states that MU could afford to fire him but has more pressing needs than spending millions on firing an average performing basketball coach. If he was worse, there might be a more pressing need. It's one reason among many reasons why Wojo wasn't fired last season.
I also think you overestimate the university's financial situation post covid. $6 million+ is not chump change. I'm not saying it will keep MU from making a move if they need to, but acting like it is a drop in the bucket is not correct. I anticipate that we will see Wojo get extended next season regardless of the results. But if the results are bad, the new contract will have some university friendly terms for ending the contract early.
Okay. Fair enough. A very sad situation for MU and Wojo (except for his bank account).
I'd love to be there when someone says to Wojo, "You're a nice coach until we can afford better".
Wojo will be extended regardless of results? 5 wins or less and he gets extended?
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Okay. Fair enough. A very sad situation for MU and Wojo (except for his bank account).
I'd love to be there when someone says to Wojo, "You're a nice coach until we can afford better".
Wojo will be extended regardless of results? 5 wins or less and he gets extended?
Yes, the pandemic has caused a sad situation for thousands of people and pretty much every university. Some have already closed as a result. Many more will follow suit over the next 10-20 years.
I think the conversation is more like "Results haven't been what we expect. We still believe you can get us there but the only way we can offer an extension is under these terms. If next year's results are better like we expect they will be, we will be able to offer a more substantial extension."
Yes, if Wojo turns in the worst season in modern high major history, then yes, he will be fired. I don't know where the cutoff between "fire Wojo" and "renegotiate Wojo's contract" is, but I'd guess it's lower than most scoopers would expect.
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I can think of several games that Al admitted his temper likely cost us key games. He was an Irish hot head, and a brilliant one at that. MU was not only looking at UCLA in the 70's. On wins and losses, yes, but we were an independent which benefited us greatly. I would put us at 4th or 5th overall in the decade. Still amazing. Is Wojo even Mike Deane? You want me to take you seriously and you respond with that rhetorical question?
4th or 5th in the 70s? Behind what team not named UCLA?
We finished in the top 10 (AP poll, which included postseason) 9 times. The only time we finished outside the top 10 we checked in at #11. One National Championship, one runner up.
No other school finished in the top 10 more than 5 times. No team not named UCLA won more than one title.
So which 2 or 3 programs other than the Bruins were better than us in the 70s? Based on performance, none were all that close.
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4th or 5th in the 70s? Behind what team not named UCLA?
We finished in the top 10 (AP poll, which included postseason) 9 times. The only time we finished outside the top 10 we checked in at #11. One National Championship, one runner up.
No other school finished in the top 10 more than 5 times. No team not named UCLA won more than one title.
So which 2 or 3 programs other than the Bruins were better than us in the 70s? Based on performance, none were all that close.
None were all that close? Kentucky won a championship and was runner up one year. Indiana was also really good in the 70s with multiple finals fours and an undefeated championship.
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I agree with Lenny. For consistent excellence, we were No. 2 that decade.
I'm sorry that as soon as I got to MU, things started to slip. I take full blame.
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Yes, the pandemic has caused a sad situation for thousands of people and pretty much every university. Some have already closed as a result. Many more will follow suit over the next 10-20 years.
I think the conversation is more like "Results haven't been what we expect. We still believe you can get us there but the only way we can offer an extension is under these terms. If next year's results are better like we expect they will be, we will be able to offer a more substantial extension."
Yes, if Wojo turns in the worst season in modern high major history, then yes, he will be fired. I don't know where the cutoff between "fire Wojo" and "renegotiate Wojo's contract" is, but I'd guess it's lower than most scoopers would expect.
Your points are valid and well said. The whole point was to explain that Marquette is well run and not married to Wojo for financial reasons. I get the impression that no one thinks that. I'll move on.
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4th or 5th in the 70s? Behind what team not named UCLA?
We finished in the top 10 (AP poll, which included postseason) 9 times. The only time we finished outside the top 10 we checked in at #11. One National Championship, one runner up.
No other school finished in the top 10 more than 5 times. No team not named UCLA won more than one title.
So which 2 or 3 programs other than the Bruins were better than us in the 70s? Based on performance, none were all that close.
MU was the clear number 2 to UCLA. Those of us around back then can comfortably testify that MU won most games before they even started through sheer intimidation.
We also played a very challenging schedule every year as an Independent. There were no scholarship limits. The good teams were loaded with talent, often times have 2-3 truly outstanding players.
Additionally, recruiting was no where near as scientific as it is today. and guys like Al relied on contacts from the streets, his system was the most refined and resulted in almost no recruiting misses. Other small schools could come up with great players as well, Niagara, St. Bonny Jacksonville, Texas Western etc. Big Ten, Big 8, Pac 8, SEC, Southwest Conference schools on the other hand often times completely struck out.
The media ate out of Al's hand, back in those day there were three TV networks, Sports Illustrated and The Local Newspapers. Al , coming from New York and the tabloid paper system there understood the media mindset, and constantly fed them content.
The only real mistake Al made was turning the operation over to Hank. We could have had Denny Crum and who knows what heights he would have taken us given where the program was at.
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None were all that close? Kentucky won a championship and was runner up one year. Indiana was also really good in the 70s with multiple finals fours and an undefeated championship.
Fluff
You’re right that UK matched MU with a National Championship and a National Runner Up and that IU was close behind with a championship and a third place finish.
But for the whole decade, not all that close. Marquette was 244-46 and finished in the top 10 nine times. The only time they missed they finished #11. Kentucky was 223-69, finished in the top 10 five times, 17th once, 18th once and unbranded 3 times. Indiana was 208-75, top 10 four times, 13th once, 5 times unranked.
It was quite a run!
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To everyone it might not be so clear cut. This system ranked us three behind UNC
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2009/1004/cbe1.pdf
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To everyone it might not be so clear cut. This system ranked us three behind UNC
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2009/1004/cbe1.pdf
I guess I just have a problem with no championships for North Carolina. Maybe I am overemphasizing them too much.
Anyway, I have no problem with MU being #2. I just think that it is more than a slam dunk, as those ratings would show.
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To everyone it might not be so clear cut. This system ranked us three behind UNC
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2009/1004/cbe1.pdf
Cool. They can have #3 by one ranking system. We'll just point to the '77 national-title-game ranking system!
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Al was a coaching legend and the best MU will ever have. He was part of my youth and permanently emblazoned in my memories. He made mistakes, too. He admitted them. Wojo made mistakes. He admitted them. Al was a head coach for 7 years before coming to MU. I don't care how small a school it is, that is on the job training. Wojo has done his 6 years as head coach all at MU. I wish he had 5 to 7 years before coming to MU, but he didn't. As a result we get the good with the bad.
I can think of several games that Al admitted his temper likely cost us key games. He was an Irish hot head, and a brilliant one at that. MU was not only looking at UCLA in the 70's. On wins and losses, yes, but we were an independent which benefited us greatly. I would put us at 4th or 5th overall in the decade. Still amazing. Is Wojo even Mike Deane? You want me to take you seriously and you respond with that rhetorical question?
One of Al's biggest strength was his personality. One of Wojo's biggest weakness is his personality. Al was exciting and maybe even charismatic. Wojo is solid and boring. Can you imagine them going head to head for the same recruit. Saying Al would get the recruit 9 out of 10 times would probably be an understatement.
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To everyone it might not be so clear cut. This system ranked us three behind UNC
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2009/1004/cbe1.pdf
Galway,
I don’t think Sagerin (or Pomeroy) were around in the 70s. I was just using final (after the tournament) AP rankings and NCAA tournament success as my metric. I respect how they handle data but I disagree.
N Carolina finished in the top 10 in the 70s 5 times (to our 9). They finished outside the top 20 once. We never did. Both made the FF twice. We won one title, they won none.
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Galway,
I don’t think Sagerin (or Pomeroy) were around in the 70s. I was just using final (after the tournament) AP rankings and NCAA tournament success as my metric. I respect how they handle data but I disagree.
N Carolina finished in the top 10 in the 70s 5 times (to our 9). They finished outside the top 20 once. We never did. Both made the FF twice. We won one title, they won none.
I argued this being incorrect for days on HolylandofHoops A few years back. I'm only trying to let it be known that it's not a consensus opinion and we might not be the clear cut Number 2 to everyone out there like UCLA is the clear cut number 1.
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I argued this being incorrect for days on HolylandofHoops A few years back. I'm only trying to let it be known that it's not a consensus opinion and we might not be the clear cut Number 2 to everyone out there like UCLA is the clear cut number 1.
That’s fair.
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4th or 5th in the 70s? Behind what team not named UCLA?
We finished in the top 10 (AP poll, which included postseason) 9 times. The only time we finished outside the top 10 we checked in at #11. One National Championship, one runner up.
No other school finished in the top 10 more than 5 times. No team not named UCLA won more than one title.
So which 2 or 3 programs other than the Bruins were better than us in the 70s? Based on performance, none were all that close.
It was my opinion. UCLA #1 without a doubt. I think #2 is between several schools including North Carolina, Indiana, Kentucky, Marquette. There are arguments to be made for all. The biggest mark against us was our schedule and the opportunities that came with an easier path than the big conference schools had.
We get a break for not playing in a conference. Back then only the conference winner made the NCAA tournament. There were some really good teams that North Carolina and Indiana fielded that never received a shot to play in the tournament because they had a disadvantage we didn't. We did not have to deal with a conference, winning the conference, or even playing a conference schedule.
The 1974 Indiana Hoosiers were co Big Ten champions with a 23-5 record and 12-2 in the conference. They had to play in the CCAT despite Indiana being ranked 9th in the country. North Carolina in 1973, 1974 finished the rankings 11th, 12th, but they did not make the tournament because they didn't win the conference. This happened to other programs. Kentucky in 1976 and 1979, though those Kentucky teams were decent and would have been tournament worthy, not great.
In general, we had easier paths because of the schedule which those other schools didn't. I would probably have ranked UCLA 1st, North Carolina 2nd, and neck and neck with MU and IU.
I could also easily argue we beat UNC when it counted. But IU knocked us out twice in the NCAA tournament and Kentucky beat us twice, while we beat them once in a consolation game.
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One of Al's biggest strength was his personality. One of Wojo's biggest weakness is his personality. Al was exciting and maybe even charismatic. Wojo is solid and boring. Can you imagine them going head to head for the same recruit. Saying Al would get the recruit 9 out of 10 times would probably be an understatement.
I agree, but they are also product of their time. Al, in today's politically correct world, would be skewered by too many people. Wojo is a clean-cut, plays the media game, and politically correct. He was raised in that world. Al came from a world where we used to be blunt and told people how we felt. You do that today and someone cries. I don't know your age, but how people talk to each other today compared to the '70s or '60s could not be more night and day. We were blunt and honest. Today we go out of our way not to be blunt or honest because it might hurt someone's feelings. Think about the coaches of the era then compared to coaches now. A product of the societal norms we were raised in.
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I agree, but they are also product of their time. Al, in today's politically correct world, would be skewered by too many people. Wojo is a clean-cut, plays the media game, and politically correct. He was raised in that world. Al came from a world where we used to be blunt and told people how we felt. You do that today and someone cries. I don't know your age, but how people talk to each other today compared to the '70s or '60s could not be more night and day. We were blunt and honest. Today we go out of our way not to be blunt or honest because it might hurt someone's feelings. Think about the coaches of the era then compared to coaches now. A product of the societal norms we were raised in.
Ah, one of my favorite hypocrisies. Praising people in the 60s or 70s for being "blunt and honest." Then criticizing people today for being blunt and honest about when something that someone did or said offends them or disrespects someone else. Then it is "politically correct" or "someone's feelings getting hurt."
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I believe in him as does the university. They should, in my opinion. There is no reason for me not to support him. If he has some bad years, then I will reconsider.
What have you been watching for the last 6
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MU was the clear number 2 to UCLA. Those of us around back then can comfortably testify that MU won most games before they even started through sheer intimidation.
We also played a very challenging schedule every year as an Independent. There were no scholarship limits. The good teams were loaded with talent, often times have 2-3 truly outstanding players.
Additionally, recruiting was no where near as scientific as it is today. and guys like Al relied on contacts from the streets, his system was the most refined and resulted in almost no recruiting misses. Other small schools could come up with great players as well, Niagara, St. Bonny Jacksonville, Texas Western etc. Big Ten, Big 8, Pac 8, SEC, Southwest Conference schools on the other hand often times completely struck out.
The media ate out of Al's hand, back in those day there were three TV networks, Sports Illustrated and The Local Newspapers. Al , coming from New York and the tabloid paper system there understood the media mindset, and constantly fed them content.
The only real mistake Al made was turning the operation over to Hank. We could have had Denny Crum and who knows what heights he would have taken us given where the program was at.
I still contend, had Al not retired, we were well positioned, in spite of UCLA's dominance, to challenge for national championships, going forward, on an annual basis. Certainly, Mark Aguirre and probably Terry Cummings would have worn the Blue and Gold, hey?
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I still contend, had Al not retired, we were well positioned, in spite of UCLA's dominance, to challenge for national championships, going forward, on an annual basis. Certainly, Mark Aguirre and probably Terry Cummings would have worn the Blue and Gold, hey?
The problem wouldn't have been UCLA. They won their last title in 1975. The problem would have been could Marquette have navigated the upcoming changes in college basketball, such as the rise of the Big East? Would Al's pipeline from the East Coast survived that? Would Marquette have been invited to the BE? Would they have accepted?
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Maybe. I have been told that one of the reasons Al left was the changing landscape. He would have had more competition for his historical recruiting base. Would MU have joined a conference sooner? Could Al have handled a shot clock, a 3 pt line, fewer scholarships, playing in the Big East? Probably. Plus, going back to NYC a few times a year would have been good for his soul. Or maybe he would have gotten passed by.
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I'm sure we wouldn't have lost to Miami OH and that DePaul's history would look a lot different. Perhaps we'd have had a shot at Isaiah Thomas to since apparently he was sold on Depaul due to Aguirre till his mom made him head to IU
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The problem wouldn't have been UCLA. They won their last title in 1975. The problem would have been could Marquette have navigated the upcoming changes in college basketball, such as the rise of the Big East? Would Al's pipeline from the East Coast survived that? Would Marquette have been invited to the BE? Would they have accepted?
Al's pipeline from East Coast would have survived. He had plenty of contacts and roots there. Doubt if BEast would have made an invite back then, nor would Al have a accepted
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Al's pipeline from East Coast would have survived. He had plenty of contacts and roots there. Doubt if BEast would have made an invite back then, nor would Al have a accepted
I tend to think you are right, but that next generation of coaches, Jim Boeheim and John Thompson in particular, who were about 15 years younger than Al, could offer those East Coast players the ability to stay closer to home and be on ESPN regularly through their BE contract. Without some sort of Great Midwest forming a decade before it does, I think Al could have had trouble competing with an emergent BE.
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Yes, the pandemic has caused a sad situation for thousands of people and pretty much every university. Some have already closed as a result. Many more will follow suit over the next 10-20 years.
I think the conversation is more like "Results haven't been what we expect. We still believe you can get us there but the only way we can offer an extension is under these terms. If next year's results are better like we expect they will be, we will be able to offer a more substantial extension."
Yes, if Wojo turns in the worst season in modern high major history, then yes, he will be fired. I don't know where the cutoff between "fire Wojo" and "renegotiate Wojo's contract" is, but I'd guess it's lower than most scoopers would expect.
I could see MU using the pandemic to give Wojo an extension at half of his current salary. That would save money and also make it less costly to fire him down the road. They could give a bonus if he is successful or build bonuses into the new contract.
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I could see MU using the pandemic to give Wojo an extension at half of his current salary. That would save money and also make it less costly to fire him down the road. They could give a bonus if he is successful or build bonuses into the new contract.
Honestly that's how coaching salaries should be. Low with high bonuses for success
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I could see MU using the pandemic to give Wojo an extension at half of his current salary.
Why would Wojo do that?
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Why would Wojo do that?
I agree. Either Wojo is the man for the job or not. Regardless of the job every time I've cut someone's salary or seen it done by someone else it never works out. They become less motivated to work or more motivated to leave. I'd never do it again.
And with a contract in place, Wojo would be a damn fool to accept it.
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What have you been watching for the last 6
One of the 6 was a bad year, his first year with a not so great team and his first time as a head coach. None of the other 5 years were bad years.
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One of the 6 was a bad year, his first year with a not so great team and his first time as a head coach. None of the other 5 years were bad years.
Of course they weren't...not by your incredibly low standards they weren't
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Of course they weren't...not by your incredibly low standards they weren't
The last 5 years
Each season a winning record
Three NCAA tournaments
One NIT
20+ wins per season average
Attendance in the top 10
All American produced
Highly rated recruits
Those do not appear to be incredibly low standards, or low standards. I didn't say great years, but more than a few were very good to good and none of them were bad - by anyone's standards except maybe you?
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The last 5 years
Each season a winning record
Three NCAA tournaments
One NIT
20+ wins per season average
Attendance in the top 10
All American produced
Highly rated recruits
Those do not appear to be incredibly low standards, or low standards. I didn't say great years, but more than a few were very good to good and none of them were bad - by anyone's standards except maybe you?
Good five years for MU. As you said. Not great. I understand MU is looking for and investing in great. Lots to like about Wojo, not as much to love. We'll see how they feel in about 10 months.
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Really ??? 25 pg's on Bailey declaring for draft??? How many posts ACTUALLY talked about the subject??
Maybe this thread should finally be shut down ! ! ! PLEASE ? ? ? 8-)
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I hear there is a draft in Bailey's Harbor.
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Of course they weren't...not by your incredibly low standards they weren't
if MU played in the CBI...and lost in the 1st rd, WarriorDad would still call it a successful season.