MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: jesmu84 on February 04, 2020, 03:12:41 PM
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More smoke/fire
https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/1793972/annnddd-now-we-have-a-nike-attorney-under-oath-not-denying-that-they-paid-college-hoops-players
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Oh. Good.
https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/1959551/a-celtics-assistant-coach-got-hit-with-a-15-year-ncaa-penalty-for-taking-at-least-dollar250000-from-a-recruits-dad-when-he-was-penns-head-coach
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Oh. Good.
https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/1959551/a-celtics-assistant-coach-got-hit-with-a-15-year-ncaa-penalty-for-taking-at-least-dollar250000-from-a-recruits-dad-when-he-was-penns-head-coach
The Ivy League reverse scholarship.
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At least Sean Miller is still free
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Kansas and Self
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/6120686baffb3ae331bb44e5e9505c56/tenor.gif?itemid=9302846)
https://apple.news/AYSkBJGB_SAmaHS-fev8qaQ
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SCHOOLS/SHOE COMPANIES PAY ELITE PLAYERS??
Wow. Earth shattering stuff, who would have thunk it?
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Still waiting for those major program punishments, eh?
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I’m sure the nsa with mass surveillance could take down every power team for a decade. It’d be a nice little reward for schools playing by the rules.
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I had breakfast with a major KU booster today. Told me he hopes they win a NC this year because Self and KU will get hammered by the NCAA next year.
Also told me about Danny Manning getting all sorts of "benefits" while he was at KU. I know that's not a secret since KU was punished for it, but was fun to hear from someone who saw it first hand.
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Still waiting for those major program punishments, eh?
Summer is almost over in Argentina...
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I'm excited for the fallout of the actual wiretaps coming:
https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/2067604/were-getting-a-documentary-this-month-about-the-fbincaa-investigation-with-never-before-heard-wiretapped-calls-from-head-coaches
SURELY the NCAA will render appropriate punishment in a swift manner
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I'm excited for the fallout of the actual wiretaps coming:
https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/2067604/were-getting-a-documentary-this-month-about-the-fbincaa-investigation-with-never-before-heard-wiretapped-calls-from-head-coaches
SURELY the NCAA will render appropriate punishment in a swift manner
NCAA enforcement rightfully works very diligently. Investigators have been on the Arizona campus for a while, as they were on the Kansas campus. There is a procedure that must be followed, such as the notice of allegations and then the opportunity for an initial response from the institution. It's due process. Enforcement has lawyers, former FBI agents, former private investigators, and other with similar backgrounds doing the work on campus. However, they cannot compel anyone to talk, that's what killed the Miami investigation, Shapiro wouldn't talk. I wouldn't want them acting in a "swift" manner and based on a documentary...unless you think everything you see on TV is true.
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NCAA enforcement rightfully works very diligently. Investigators have been on the Arizona campus for a while, as they were on the Kansas campus. There is a procedure that must be followed, such as the notice of allegations and then the opportunity for an initial response from the institution. It's due process. Enforcement has lawyers, former FBI agents, former private investigators, and other with similar backgrounds doing the work on campus. However, they cannot compel anyone to talk, that's what killed the Miami investigation, Shapiro wouldn't talk. I wouldn't want them acting in a "swift" manner and based on a documentary...unless you think everything you see on TV is true.
Um
This is a joke, right?
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I heard they are planning on hitting major offenders with one of the biggest punishments in years. They will be banned from the conference tournaments and NCAA tournament for the 2019-20 year.
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Um
This is a joke, right?
just because you don't know how things work doesn't make reality "a joke."
you do know Kansas is scared out of their mind right now and Miami only got off because the NCAA investigators wanted to nail them so bad they crossed the boundaries of what they could do and it killed the violation and the dude (a lawyer, the same one who added sanctions to USC for hiring Lane Kiffin) got fired, right? And that investigators have been at Arizona for quite a while, right?
But yes, a TV documentary with a criminal is always a solid and unquestionable reliable source to make a final determination.
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just because you don't know how things work doesn't make reality "a joke."
you do know Kansas is scared out of their mind right now and Miami only got off because the NCAA investigators wanted to nail them so bad they crossed the boundaries of what they could do and it killed the violation and the dude (a lawyer, the same one who added sanctions to USC for hiring Lane Kiffin) got fired, right? And that investigators have been at Arizona for quite a while, right?
But yes, a TV documentary with a criminal is always a solid and unquestionable reliable source to make a final determination.
They have wire taps and text messages from head coaches. But yeah, nothing to see here, just the word of a criminal.
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just because you don't know how things work doesn't make reality "a joke."
you do know Kansas is scared out of their mind right now and Miami only got off because the NCAA investigators wanted to nail them so bad they crossed the boundaries of what they could do and it killed the violation and the dude (a lawyer, the same one who added sanctions to USC for hiring Lane Kiffin) got fired, right? And that investigators have been at Arizona for quite a while, right?
But yes, a TV documentary with a criminal is always a solid and unquestionable reliable source to make a final determination.
Making a Murderer syndrome.
I'll listen to Billy on NCAA issues.
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just because you don't know how things work doesn't make reality "a joke."
you do know Kansas is scared out of their mind right now and Miami only got off because the NCAA investigators wanted to nail them so bad they crossed the boundaries of what they could do and it killed the violation and the dude (a lawyer, the same one who added sanctions to USC for hiring Lane Kiffin) got fired, right? And that investigators have been at Arizona for quite a while, right?
But yes, a TV documentary with a criminal is always a solid and unquestionable reliable source to make a final determination.
I was obviously being facetious with my initial post.
I do not believe we will see much action out of the NCAA from anything the documentary mentions let along from all the evidence they've had at their disposal prior to this coming out.
Larger picture - I'm not sure what Kansas would really have to be scared of. Or, more specifically, those who might have committed any violations. Coaches got paid. Players/families got paid. Games were won. Fans experienced success with their teams in real-time. History books have been written.
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I'm excited for the fallout of the actual wiretaps coming:
https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/2067604/were-getting-a-documentary-this-month-about-the-fbincaa-investigation-with-never-before-heard-wiretapped-calls-from-head-coaches
SURELY the NCAA will render appropriate punishment in a swift manner
Don't worry, Missou will get punished heavily, I'm sure! :P
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I was obviously being facetious with my initial post.
I do not believe we will see much action out of the NCAA from anything the documentary mentions let along from all the evidence they've had at their disposal prior to this coming.
Well, if you think about it... a Chicago Tribune article turned this program into a “clean-at-all-costs” lesson in mediocrity. (Yes, boners, I realize the article isn’t responsible for the actions of a few bad actors, but the idea of a nationally prominent publication influencing decisions at the organizational level is not unheard of)
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I’m sure the nsa with mass surveillance could take down every power team for a decade. It’d be a nice little reward for schools playing by the rules.
Long Live NSA Mass Surveillance!!
Oy Vey. StingRay.
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If You Watch Only One Sports Documentary During Quarantine, Make It This One
https://deadspin.com/if-you-watch-only-one-sports-documentary-during-quarant-1842494364
...But don't be surprised if Miller and Wade are looking for new jobs after Tuesday night....
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If You Watch Only One Sports Documentary During Quarantine, Make It This One
https://deadspin.com/if-you-watch-only-one-sports-documentary-during-quarant-1842494364
...But don't be surprised if Miller and Wade are looking for new jobs after Tuesday night....
I’ll be stunned if they’re looking for new jobs after Tuesday. It’s been proven before, if the school thinks the coach is winning enough basketball games but gets caught blatantly cheating, just sit on your hands, wait it out, and watch the NCAA not do anything.
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I’ll be stunned if they’re looking for new jobs after Tuesday. It’s been proven before, if the school thinks the coach is winning enough basketball games but gets caught blatantly cheating, just sit on your hands, wait it out, and watch the NCAA not do anything.
I know. Just ask Kelvin Sampson, Bruce Pearl and Rick Pitino and their institutions. They kept coaching and nothing happened to their schools.
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I know. Just ask Kelvin Sampson, Bruce Pearl and Rick Pitino and their institutions. They kept coaching and nothing happened to their schools.
How long after the violated acts took place till the punishments were levied?
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I know. Just ask Kelvin Sampson, Bruce Pearl and Rick Pitino and their institutions. They kept coaching and nothing happened to their schools.
I think Auburn, Houston, and Iona are thrilled with the coaches they have.
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To me the Question for the University Presidents is, Penalizing the School/Coaches will have what net affect on the Reward to Risk factors.
For me the answer is easy, the Golden Goose keeps Strutting along.
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When does Creighton get hammered?
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When does Creighton get hammered?
The same time Kansas, LSU, Arizona, and Auburn get hammered. Never.
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I think Auburn, Houston, and Iona are thrilled with the coaches they have.
Were their previous schools sanctioned and were they fired? That in itself destroys your “the NCAA does nothing” premise.
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Were their previous schools sanctioned and were they fired? That in itself destroys your “the NCAA does nothing” premise.
I don’t know if their previous schools received sanctions. Just goes to show how damning they were if they did. Louisville, and Tennessee really seem to be hurting a lot recently if they were sanctioned. Good job NCAA. Indiana had to overcome Tom Crean so I’d think that was punishment enough.
What I do know is those three continue to be paid millions of dollars a year to coach in the NCAA. Again, way to really lay down the hammer NCAA. All anyone needs to do to be scared out of thinking about cheating is look at those three guys. How will they ever be successful again?
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I know. Just ask Kelvin Sampson, Bruce Pearl and Rick Pitino and their institutions. They kept coaching and nothing happened to their schools.
I think NCAA has to tougher but this statement is not true. Pitino alone lost $50MM+
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https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/2214010/lol-the-ncaa-is-going-to-apparently-watch-and-take-notes-from-an-hbo-documentary-to-attempt-to-punish-college-hoops-programs
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https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/2224665/review-can-the-ncaa-actually-do-anything-besides-laugh-at-el-chapo-after-watching-the-scheme-documentary-like-they-planned
This is absolutely embarrassing for the NCAA
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https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/2224665/review-can-the-ncaa-actually-do-anything-besides-laugh-at-el-chapo-after-watching-the-scheme-documentary-like-they-planned
This is absolutely embarrassing for the NCAA
LOL, Barstool Sports.
In reality, the NCAA has been after the documents and wiretaps for years but the FBI wouldn't give them access. Meanwhile, they did go to Kansas, well, that's some good reading.
I kept watching for the bombshell last night and well, nothing. A reasonable party could argue the engaged in entrapment with Dawkins. They kept asking him to do something he didn't want to - pay the coaches directly. Four assistants did get nailed, but I guess the armchair sleuths think that's not enough despite the lack of evidence.
That was two hours of my life I want back, even during the pandemic. There were more surprises in Al Capone's vault.
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LOL, Barstool Sports.
In reality, the NCAA has been after the documents and wiretaps for years but the FBI wouldn't give them access. Meanwhile, they did go to Kansas, well, that's some good reading.
I kept watching for the bombshell last night and well, nothing. A reasonable party could argue the engaged in entrapment with Dawkins. They kept asking him to do something he didn't want to - pay the coaches directly. Four assistants did get nailed, but I guess the armchair sleuths think that's not enough despite the lack of evidence.
That was two hours of my life I want back, even during the pandemic. There were more surprises in Al Capone's vault.
The real joke is the continued success - and employment of - Miller, Self, Wade and their programs.
Seems weird that you're happy with the situation.
Guess you're on the side that prefers winning at all costs.
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LOL, Barstool Sports.
In reality, the NCAA has been after the documents and wiretaps for years but the FBI wouldn't give them access. Meanwhile, they did go to Kansas, well, that's some good reading.
I kept watching for the bombshell last night and well, nothing. A reasonable party could argue the engaged in entrapment with Dawkins. They kept asking him to do something he didn't want to - pay the coaches directly. Four assistants did get nailed, but I guess the armchair sleuths think that's not enough despite the lack of evidence.
That was two hours of my life I want back, even during the pandemic. There were more surprises in Al Capone's vault.
Lol. Good ol' Cheeks.
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28982980/michigan-state-basketball-coach-tom-izzo-sought-witness-2017-criminal-investigation-player
Will the NCAA get involved here?
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28982980/michigan-state-basketball-coach-tom-izzo-sought-witness-2017-criminal-investigation-player
Will the NCAA get involved here?
Nope.
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Watched Scheme today. FBI, Miller, Wade and Blazer come off poorly. Nothing new in the documentary.
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Lol. Good ol' Cheeks.
Not Cheeks, but let me know when you have a chance to sit down with the head of basketball enforcement to discuss the investigations. It’s easy for you to talk when you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Have you read the Kansas report?
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28982980/michigan-state-basketball-coach-tom-izzo-sought-witness-2017-criminal-investigation-player
Will the NCAA get involved here?
Criminal matter, not a NCAA matter. The NCAA doesn’t have jx.
Does the Sheriff’s office get involved when coaches have impermissible contact with a recruit?
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Criminal matter, not a NCAA matter. The NCAA doesn’t have jx.
Does the Sheriff’s office get involved when coaches have impermissible contact with a recruit?
Title IX isn’t an NCAA matter? Seems as though it is.
But we know the NCAA won’t do anything.
Not Cheeks, but let me know when you have a chance to sit down with the head of basketball enforcement to discuss the investigations. It’s easy for you to talk when you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Have you read the Kansas report?
Awesome you got to sit down with him Cheeks.
I’ll read the “Kansas report” when they actually do something about it.
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Another Cheeks? Wasn’t this bestowed on me last week? Ha ha.
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Another Cheeks? Wasn’t this bestowed on me last week? Ha ha.
No we know that Cheeks is an Angels fan and you are a Cubs fan so you cannot possibly be Cheeks.
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No we know that Cheeks is an Angels fan and you are a Cubs fan so you cannot possibly be Cheeks.
rent free.
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Danielle Lerner
@danielle_lerner
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12m
The University of Louisville has received a Notice of Allegations from the NCAA pertaining to the men's basketball program,
@TheAthletic
has confirmed through multiple sources. The school plans to send out a release and announce a press conference shortly.
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Danielle Lerner
@danielle_lerner
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12m
The University of Louisville has received a Notice of Allegations from the NCAA pertaining to the men's basketball program,
@TheAthletic
has confirmed through multiple sources. The school plans to send out a release and announce a press conference shortly.
Hahahahahahahahahaha it's like that school breeds corruption
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Hahahahahahahahahaha it's like that school breeds corruption
Today, the University of Louisville received a Notice of Allegations from the NCAA regarding the 2016-2017 and 2017-2018 men's basketball program. The issuance of the Notice comes after a nearly two-year long investigation by the NCAA enforcement staff into several college men’s basketball programs, all stemming from a Department of Justice investigation.
The allegations issued against the Louisville men's basketball program include:
• A Level I allegation that an improper recruiting offer, and subsequent extra benefits to the family of an enrolled student athlete; and a recruiting inducement to a prospective student-athlete’s non-scholastic coach/trainer, were provided by certain individuals, purportedly identified and defined by the NCAA as “representatives of the university’s athletics interests”, none of whom had traditional connections to the University beyond their affiliation with Adidas or professional athlete management entities, as well as by a former assistant coach and a former associate head coach;
• A Level II allegation of recruiting violations by the same two former men’s basketball coaching staff members in providing impermissible transportation and having impermissible contact in the context of recruitment-related activities;
• A Level II allegation that the institution failed to adequately monitor the recruitment of an incoming, high-profile student-athlete;
• A Level II allegation that the former head men’s basketball coach did not satisfy his head coach responsibility when he failed to promote an atmosphere of compliance;
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To be fair, Chicos never said *what* summer the NCAA would announce these allegations.
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To be fair, Chicos never said *what* summer the NCAA would announce these allegations.
Oh damn ;D
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Why don't the NCAA check out these one-and-doners. Kansas, Kentucky,
North Carolina, and Duke. How many of those players attemd classes,
and have passing grades for one school year.
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Why don't the NCAA check out these one-and-doners. Kansas, Kentucky,
North Carolina, and Duke. How many of those players attemd classes,
and have passing grades for one school year.
Who cares
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Danielle Lerner
@danielle_lerner
Chris Mack and Vince Tyra will hold a Zoom call with men's basketball players and their families later today to explain the timeline. No guarantee Louisville won't get a postseason ban, but Tyra thinks the process will take at least a year so 2021 NCAA Tourney still a possibility
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Wake me up when Kansas/Self or Arizona/Miller are held accountable
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Danielle Lerner
@danielle_lerner
Chris Mack and Vince Tyra will hold a Zoom call with men's basketball players and their families later today to explain the timeline. No guarantee Louisville won't get a postseason ban, but Tyra thinks the process will take at least a year so 2021 NCAA Tourney still a possibility
I wondered why Mack took that job because of this...but then i saw his salary. He got a huge payday and zero responsibility for that mess. I'd have done the same thing.
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I wondered why Mack took that job because of this...but then i saw his salary. He got a huge payday and zero responsibility for that mess. I'd have done the same thing.
And almost certainly has an out in his contract (buyout goes out the window or something) if the NCAA actually decides to hammer them (which they won't).
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Wake me up when Kansas/Self or Arizona/Miller are held accountable
you've been asleep for 7 months, apparently.
https://publicaffairs.ku.edu/noa
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you've been asleep for 7 months, apparently.
https://publicaffairs.ku.edu/noa
When did they get fired or put on probation?
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you've been asleep for 7 months, apparently.
https://publicaffairs.ku.edu/noa
He said when they are held accountable, not when they shuffle a bunch of papers back and forth....
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I think the most disparaging outcome of the UL scandal is that Louisville made well-known risks in hiring/retaining Pitino and Petrino, both of whom had national scandals before 2013), but did so because it valued winning at all costs on a national scale in both football/men's basketball in order to get into the ACC. Remember, it came down to UConn and Louisville after Maryland bolted the ACC for the B1G, and, from accounts, Louisville snuck-in ahead of UConn due to the football edge.
If Louisville had the chance to do it over, they would do everything the exact same over again. Why? Because turning their heads the other way not only allowed them to win more in the two high-profile sports, but also got them a golden ticket out of G5 purgatory and into the P5 country club.
They might be put on probation for another five years, wins might get vacated (again), scholarships might get reduced, etc. - but Louisville still got into the ACC (and is making $30+ million annually), compared to the $1.7 million annually the AAC (the league that Louisville would have been stuck in) was getting through their last contract.
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I think the most disparaging outcome of the UL scandal is that Louisville made well-known risks in hiring/retaining Pitino and Petrino, both of whom had national scandals before 2013), but did so because it valued winning at all costs on a national scale in both football/men's basketball in order to get into the ACC. Remember, it came down to UConn and Louisville after Maryland bolted the ACC for the B1G, and, from accounts, Louisville snuck-in ahead of UConn due to the football edge.
If Louisville had the chance to do it over, they would do everything the exact same over again. Why? Because turning their heads the other way not only allowed them to win more in the two high-profile sports, but also got them a golden ticket out of G5 purgatory and into the P5 country club.
They might be put on probation for another five years, wins might get vacated (again), scholarships might get reduced, etc. - but Louisville still got into the ACC (and is making $30+ million annually), compared to the $1.7 million annually the AAC (the league that Louisville would have been stuck in) was getting through their last contract.
The only thing they would change is not firing anyone from their athletic department and daring the NCAA to force their hand. We now know (Kansas, LSU, Arizona) that doesn't happen with the NCAA. Their biggest mistake was acting on their own, assuming if they didn't the NCAA would actually lay the hammer down.
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I think the most disparaging outcome of the UL scandal is that Louisville made well-known risks in hiring/retaining Pitino and Petrino, both of whom had national scandals before 2013), but did so because it valued winning at all costs on a national scale in both football/men's basketball in order to get into the ACC. Remember, it came down to UConn and Louisville after Maryland bolted the ACC for the B1G, and, from accounts, Louisville snuck-in ahead of UConn due to the football edge.
If Louisville had the chance to do it over, they would do everything the exact same over again. Why? Because turning their heads the other way not only allowed them to win more in the two high-profile sports, but also got them a golden ticket out of G5 purgatory and into the P5 country club.
They might be put on probation for another five years, wins might get vacated (again), scholarships might get reduced, etc. - but Louisville still got into the ACC (and is making $30+ million annually), compared to the $1.7 million annually the AAC (the league that Louisville would have been stuck in) was getting through their last contract.
Cheating pays well.
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With COVID it is surprising any new charges levied.
Speaking of which, is Louisville near the top of all time accused by the NCAA?
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With COVID it is surprising any new charges levied.
Why?
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When did they get fired or put on probation?
It’s a process, like a court proceeding. Investigation, charges, ability to respond by the accused. The difference is the accused is arguing against the judge. There’s no ability to plea.
Sorry it can’t all happen in three days and be litigated by Twitter and message board conversations.
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With COVID it is surprising any new charges levied.
Speaking of which, is Louisville near the top of all time accused by the NCAA?
Not really. Enforcement has been on the Lille campus and investigating for a while, well before COVID hit. These things aren’t done overnight.
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It’s a process, like a court proceeding. Investigation, charges, ability to respond by the accused. The difference is the accused is arguing against the judge. There’s no ability to plea.
Sorry it can’t all happen in three days and be litigated by Twitter and message board conversations.
Then they haven’t been held accountable for anything. Gotcha
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Not really. Enforcement has been on the Lille campus and investigating for a while, well before COVID hit. These things aren’t done overnight.
What about interviews and such? Isn’t there a reason law enforcement does interrogations at the precinct and not via the phone? They can tell if you are lying, sweating, eye contact. Overselling it a bit here, but if there were interviews still to be conducted I would think COVID only slows that process down.
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Not really. Enforcement has been on the Lille campus and investigating for a while, well before COVID hit. These things aren’t done overnight.
Not true, the Louisville fan board says their innocent and it's a witch hunt against U of L. Case closed. :D
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What about interviews and such? Isn’t there a reason law enforcement does interrogations at the precinct and not via the phone? They can tell if you are lying, sweating, eye contact. Overselling it a bit here, but if there were interviews still to be conducted I would think COVID only slows that process down.
They use the eye test instead of the evidence? How Scoopy!
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They use the eye test instead of the evidence? How Scoopy!
Maybe the smell test would be more effective, hey?
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Maybe the smell test would be more effective, hey?
Unfortunately, the smell test has not proven as effective this time around as it did during the exotic dancer/prostitute scandal.
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Unfortunately, the smell test has not proven as effective this time around as it did during the exotic dancer/prostitute scandal.
UofL started getting better smelling strippers?
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UofL started getting better smelling strippers?
So far, no allegations of strippers at all this time out.
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These allegations against Louisville are so bad that the NCAA just might have to punish Kentucky Wesleyan College or something.
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They use the eye test instead of the evidence? How Scoopy!
Wouldn't they use evidence and also interviews of people as part of the compilation of evidence? Thought investigators usually interview people in person to help discern credibility and a better understanding if they are trustworthy.
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Wouldn't they use evidence and also interviews of people as part of the compilation of evidence? Thought investigators usually interview people in person to help discern credibility and a better understanding if they are trustworthy.
“We’d hammer these guys, but covid so our hands our tied.”
Convenient.
As always, the NCAA gets it right.
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Then they haven’t been held accountable for anything. Gotcha
They’ve been charged. You yahoos like to play the “they’re so mad they’ll put Murray State on probation.” And yet here L-Ville is having to defend themselves. Trust the process...even if you’re insecure with your lack of knowledge about it.
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What about interviews and such? Isn’t there a reason law enforcement does interrogations at the precinct and not via the phone? They can tell if you are lying, sweating, eye contact. Overselling it a bit here, but if there were interviews still to be conducted I would think COVID only slows that process down.
Enforcement has been on campus. The interviews are generally done in person. Sometimes people are flown to Indy. My buddy from MU had to go through that. He was furious about it and didn’t even work for that school anymore.
Of course, the NCAA doesn’t have subpoena power, the biggest issue. That’s why they couldn’t get Nevin Shapiro in person and resorted to illegal activities that got the lead investigator fired.
It’s likely the interviews have already been conducted and the staff had been in Indy putting together the charges. Now they have to follow the process and timeline to allow for Louisville’s response.
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They’ve been charged. You yahoos like to play the “they’re so mad they’ll put Murray State on probation.” And yet here L-Ville is having to defend themselves. Trust the process...even if you’re insecure with your lack of knowledge about it.
I’m quite confident with my knowledge of the matter and how the NCAA operates
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They’ve been charged. You yahoos like to play the “they’re so mad they’ll put Murray State on probation.” And yet here L-Ville is having to defend themselves. Trust the process...even if you’re insecure with your lack of knowledge about it.
Just curious... How long do we have to go from the initial allegations until we can say there is no significant punishment being given? How long does the "process" take?
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Seth Davis
@SethDavisHoops
BREAKING: The NCAA has delivered its reply to Kansas' response to the Notice of Allegations regarding potential violations in its basketball program,
@TheAthleticCBB
has learned. KU likely to issue statement and/or docs today or later this week.
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Just curious... How long do we have to go from the initial allegations until we can say there is no significant punishment being given? How long does the "process" take?
So first there's the notice of inquiry then the investigation. That could take a while depending on cooperation. After that is the notice of allegations and the school has 90 days to give a written response to that. Usually, they lawyer up for that (usually BSK or Ice Miller, they're the experts in the field. In fact, the dude who got fired for being overzealous on the Miami investigation is now with Ice Miller). Then the in-person hearings are scheduled and the parties are flown to Indy for that. The COI is mostly from individuals from outside of athletics: college presidents, attorneys, professors, general counsel. There' s usually an AD and a former coach too.
There's a new process that both Memphis and NC State are headed to, the independent accountable resolution process. All individuals from outside of athletics and the NCAA. There is no appeal. NC State got kicked there because of lack of cooperation, apparently, Gottfried's response was very adversarial.
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So first there's the notice of inquiry then the investigation. That could take a while depending on cooperation. After that is the notice of allegations and the school has 90 days to give a written response to that. Usually, they lawyer up for that (usually BSK or Ice Miller, they're the experts in the field. In fact, the dude who got fired for being overzealous on the Miami investigation is now with Ice Miller). Then the in-person hearings are scheduled and the parties are flown to Indy for that. The COI is mostly from individuals from outside of athletics: college presidents, attorneys, professors, general counsel. There' s usually an AD and a former coach too.
There's a new process that both Memphis and NC State are headed to, the independent accountable resolution process. All individuals from outside of athletics and the NCAA. There is no appeal. NC State got kicked there because of lack of cooperation, apparently, Gottfried's response was very adversarial.
And the timeline of these events generally ranges about ...?
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So first there's the notice of inquiry then the investigation. That could take a while depending on cooperation. After that is the notice of allegations and the school has 90 days to give a written response to that. Usually, they lawyer up for that (usually BSK or Ice Miller, they're the experts in the field. In fact, the dude who got fired for being overzealous on the Miami investigation is now with Ice Miller). Then the in-person hearings are scheduled and the parties are flown to Indy for that. The COI is mostly from individuals from outside of athletics: college presidents, attorneys, professors, general counsel. There' s usually an AD and a former coach too.
There's a new process that both Memphis and NC State are headed to, the independent accountable resolution process. All individuals from outside of athletics and the NCAA. There is no appeal. NC State got kicked there because of lack of cooperation, apparently, Gottfried's response was very adversarial.
See, this is my problem...it's how long the process takes. To me it shouldn't. here's my problem with it...the school will ALWAYS drag it out as long as they can to their benefit. That pisses me off that they are allowed to kick the can down the road for that long. For example...when Kansas's notice got sent out originally it was before this last season started..now in the end it didn't matter, but to me, I'd like to see the punishment occur in that current season. Why?/ because KU this past year had a National Championship caliber team...so let's say they ended up winning it, and the following year is when their punishment comes down. Then they of course make the tourney but their team isn't quite as good as the previous years...so they get a post season ban, do you think they will really care at that point?? They just won a National Championship the prvious year and that's all they care about. Even if the NCAA strips them of that title, it's essentially meaningless.
For things like this 5 level 1 violations, the ONLY punishment that will really hurt and the only thing the fans, program really care about is post season bans. A year isn't good enough...I'd like to see MULTIPLE years of post season bans, on top of recruiting restrictions etc. make it really hurt, so the program takes many years to recover. I feel that way about any program that gets even 1 level one violation...the punishment has to REALLY hurt.
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See, this is my problem...it's how long the process takes. To me it shouldn't. here's my problem with it...the school will ALWAYS drag it out as long as they can to their benefit. That pisses me off that they are allowed to kick the can down the road for that long. For example...when Kansas's notice got sent out originally it was before this last season started..now in the end it didn't matter, but to me, I'd like to see the punishment occur in that current season. Why?/ because KU this past year had a National Championship caliber team...so let's say they ended up winning it, and the following year is when their punishment comes down. Then they of course make the tourney but their team isn't quite as good as the previous years...so they get a post season ban, do you think they will really care at that point?? They just won a National Championship the prvious year and that's all they care about. Even if the NCAA strips them of that title, it's essentially meaningless.
For things like this 5 level 1 violations, the ONLY punishment that will really hurt and the only thing the fans, program really care about is post season bans. A year isn't good enough...I'd like to see MULTIPLE years of post season bans, on top of recruiting restrictions etc. make it really hurt, so the program takes many years to recover. I feel that way about any program that gets even 1 level one violation...the punishment has to REALLY hurt.
Kansas should get the Presidential Medal of Freedom
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Kansas should get the Presidential Medal of Freedom
Give it a rest...you're an insufferable little pretty boy and your HATRED for the NCAA, seems almost personal. So tell us Rico, did they do something to YOU or a family member personally that makes you hate them so much?? I guarantee you they did not. Do you hate your employer that much too?? What the NCAA does or does not do has ZERO effect on you personally. None whatsoever. we get it, you hate them..it doesn't need to be repeated constantly...There's only one other instance I can think of where someone is HATED this much by someone and ironically enough, you're one that hates him too. Not surprised. That really tells me all I need to know.
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Give it a rest...you're an insufferable little pretty boy and your HATRED for the NCAA, seems almost personal. So tell us Rico, did they do something to YOU or a family member personally that makes you hate them so much?? I guarantee you they did not. Do you hate your employer that much too?? What the NCAA does or does not do has ZERO effect on you personally. None whatsoever. we get it, you hate them..it doesn't need to be repeated constantly...There's only one other instance I can think of where someone is HATED this much by someone and ironically enough, you're one that hates him too. Not surprised. That really tells me all I need to know.
I’m simply not a fan of morally bankrupt organizations built on the backs of student athletes who are treated like cattle.
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I’m simply not a fan of morally bankrupt organizations built on the backs of student athletes who are treated like cattle.
LMAO, you're getting your NIL soon, maybe then you'll shut up about it. Doubtful, but maybe. Are the athletes being forced to go to college?? Or are they doing it on their own free will knowing what they are getting themselves into before hand?? They've got options, right?? No one on this earth MAKES them go to college.
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LMAO, you're getting your NIL soon, maybe then you'll shut up about it. Doubtful, but maybe. Are the athletes being forced to go to college?? Or are they doing it on their own free will knowing what they are getting themselves into before hand?? They've got options, right?? No one on this earth MAKES them go to college.
Hopefully, the NIL allows student athletes to maximize their earning potential. The initial proposal hampers that. Luckily, the federal government is scoffing at it and with bipartisan support, the NCAA will have to bring more to the table.
Also, it’s hopeful the G-League continues to attract top talent and provides a good developmental system for the sport of basketball. That’s a much better option for top talent if the league is serious about development because college basketball isn’t at the moment.
You ask players to play for the name on the uniform. Interestingly enough, many fans of college teams quickly turn on that same uniform when the team performs poorly and aren’t afraid to attack the name on the back either. If it’s all about wins and losses when supporting or not supporting student athletes, then the NCAA isn’t amateur at all. It simply hasn’t been for decades.
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Hopefully, the NIL allows student athletes to maximize their earning potential. The initial proposal hampers that. Luckily, the federal government is scoffing at it and with bipartisan support, the NCAA will have to bring more to the table.
Also, it’s hopeful the G-League continues to attract top talent and provides a good developmental system for the sport of basketball. That’s a much better option for top talent if the league is serious about development because college basketball isn’t at the moment.
You ask players to play for the name on the uniform. Interestingly enough, many fans of college teams quickly turn on that same uniform when the team performs poorly and aren’t afraid to attack the name on the back either. If it’s all about wins and losses when supporting or not supporting student athletes, then the NCAA isn’t amateur at all. It simply hasn’t been for decades.
ANY kind of competition is and always should be about wins and losses. That's what competition is. You play to win the game, bottom line. Coaches get fired if they don't win enough. Whether it's high school, college or professional. Players want to win, they will tell you that. I realize we live in a society now where a lot people think everyone should get a medal, and as long as you try your best that's all that matters. Ask a college athlete sometime if that's satisfactory enough for them, or if they want to win, and if that's what's truly important to them. You can be an amateur and still want to win.
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Honestly, I would love to see a true professional development league succeed and all eligible high school players have that option leaving cbb to those who truly value a scholarship for the opportunity it represents and, as Al said, use the school.
Allowing pay for NIL is ok as long as a level playing field can be accomplished. I guess this would create a less polished product at the college level, but I personally don't care. I get excited about MU vs. the competition at the collegiate level, not about how close the talent matches the pro level. In this circumstance the coaches would have to do more coaching and maybe earn all that money they make. 8-)
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So first there's the notice of inquiry then the investigation. That could take a while depending on cooperation. After that is the notice of allegations and the school has 90 days to give a written response to that. Usually, they lawyer up for that (usually BSK or Ice Miller, they're the experts in the field. In fact, the dude who got fired for being overzealous on the Miami investigation is now with Ice Miller). Then the in-person hearings are scheduled and the parties are flown to Indy for that. The COI is mostly from individuals from outside of athletics: college presidents, attorneys, professors, general counsel. There' s usually an AD and a former coach too.
There's a new process that both Memphis and NC State are headed to, the independent accountable resolution process. All individuals from outside of athletics and the NCAA. There is no appeal. NC State got kicked there because of lack of cooperation, apparently, Gottfried's response was very adversarial.
How do you know all these processes?
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How do you know all these processes?
Experience.
One of my best friends got caught up in a major investigation, flown to Indy, visited at work, etc.
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See, this is my problem...it's how long the process takes. To me it shouldn't. here's my problem with it...the school will ALWAYS drag it out as long as they can to their benefit. That pisses me off that they are allowed to kick the can down the road for that long. For example...when Kansas's notice got sent out originally it was before this last season started..now in the end it didn't matter, but to me, I'd like to see the punishment occur in that current season. Why?/ because KU this past year had a National Championship caliber team...so let's say they ended up winning it, and the following year is when their punishment comes down. Then they of course make the tourney but their team isn't quite as good as the previous years...so they get a post season ban, do you think they will really care at that point?? They just won a National Championship the prvious year and that's all they care about. Even if the NCAA strips them of that title, it's essentially meaningless.
For things like this 5 level 1 violations, the ONLY punishment that will really hurt and the only thing the fans, program really care about is post season bans. A year isn't good enough...I'd like to see MULTIPLE years of post season bans, on top of recruiting restrictions etc. make it really hurt, so the program takes many years to recover. I feel that way about any program that gets even 1 level one violation...the punishment has to REALLY hurt.
I go back-n-forth on an opinion of the ncaa (I don’t feel athletes should be paid), but I agree with you that the length of these investigations is ridiculous.
Kansas, AZ, ‘Ville, Creighton et al...lets go, drop the hammer.
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Things look bad for Self and his Kansas hoopsters.
I expect major penalties against the Kansas A&M field hockey team any time now.
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Things look bad for Self and his Kansas hoopsters.
I expect major penalties against the Kansas A&M field hockey team any time now.
Funny. But in all seriousness it looks like the NCAA is actually looking to go to war on Kansas. A good friend and big booster of KU told me months ago that KU is guilty and Self is toast.
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I’m simply not a fan of morally bankrupt organizations built on the backs of student athletes who are treated like cattle.
One of my children had their education costs covered as a result of ncaa scholarship in a non revenue sport. There are other members here who have children that received the same.
Not treated like cattle and it was a tremendous opportunity to travel, work with a team, experience an aspect of life that most do not. It was not 100% roses, and that is part of the learning experience you go through when you are not playing as much as you want or balancing school and athletics. The payoff was the ability to organize, prioritize, simplify, and cope. It paid off post graduate.
My child’s experience is not unique. I would say it is the norm for most student athletes.
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One of my children had their education costs covered as a result of ncaa scholarship in a non revenue sport. There are other members here who have children that received the same.
Not treated like cattle and it was a tremendous opportunity to travel, work with a team, experience an aspect of life that most do not. It was not 100% roses, and that is part of the learning experience you go through when you are not playing as much as you want or balancing school and athletics. The payoff was the ability to organize, prioritize, simplify, and cope. It paid off post graduate.
My child’s experience is not unique. I would say it is the norm for most student athletes.
Thanks, cheeks
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From KU...“[Kansas] absolutely would accept responsibility if it believed that violations had occurred, as we have demonstrated with other self-reported infractions. Chancellor Girod, Jeff Long and KU stand firmly behind Coach Self, his staff and our men’s basketball program, as well as our robust compliance program.”
Forget it NCAA. Maybe turn your attention to Fort Hays State. KU?They're ok.
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But in all seriousness it looks like the NCAA is actually looking to go to war on Kansas. A good friend and big booster of KU told me months ago that KU is guilty and Self is toast.
Well, Sean Miller and Arizona looked like the slam dunk of all slam dunks. Yet he's still coaching and his team is still eligible and they're still recruiting great players.
So while I hope you're right, I'm gonna settle on, "We'll see" here. Because Kansas seems to be looking to fight back.
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Thanks, cheeks
"both sides"
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By Seth Davis May 7, 2020 85
On Monday, the NCAA served Louisville with a Notice of Allegations based largely on evidence produced by the FBI’s investigation into college basketball. The most serious charges involve payments that were allegedly arranged by two assistant coaches and a pair of employees at Adidas: Jim Gatto, who was then director of global sports marketing for basketball, and Merl Code, a consultant. The first sentence in the allegation identifies “the Adidas corporation” as a “representative of the institution’s athletic interests.” This is NCAA-speak for “booster,” a term commonly applied to someone who donates to an athletic department.
The booster claim echoed ones that were also made in NOAs the NCAA has served to N.C. State and Kansas. Even without that language those schools would potentially be facing stiff penalties, but the classification of Adidas and the people who worked there as boosters is a critical pillar of the NCAA’s cases. If it weren’t, the NCAA would not have led its strongest allegations by asserting it.
Why is this so significant? Because under NCAA rules, basketball coaches are normally only held accountable for recruiting violations they commit. But if those violations are committed by a booster, then the coaches can be on the hook. Even if there is no evidence the coaches were aware of what was happening, the NCAA can determine that they should have known, and therefore must be penalized as if they did.
The specter of a booster funneling cash to recruits is almost as old as Naismith’s peach basket, but this is the first time the NCAA has so broadly and emphatically tried to apply that label to shoe companies in high-level infractions cases. Whether the NCAA is successful in making this argument will do more than determine how these cases turn out. It could also open up a Pandora’s box of questions asking whether Adidas and other sneaker companies, which basically run grassroots basketball, are violating rules that govern boosters and recruiting. If nothing else, the NCAA is forcing coaches to rethink the role that sneaker companies play in all of this, and how that might have to change their behavior.
“It kind of shocked me,” says Notre Dame coach Mike Brey, who recently served as president of the National Association of Basketball Coaches. “I never thought of it like that. If there’s money changing hands, then yeah, they’re a booster, but I don’t think any of us look at the support we get from sneaker companies and think of that as violations. They’re giving us information to help close the deal (with recruits).”
It’s confusing, to say the least, for the NCAA to claim that coaches are putting themselves in jeopardy by working so closely with sneaker companies. Part of the NCAA’s evidence against Kansas coach Bill Self and his assistant Kurtis Townsend are text messages revealed at trial that showed them encouraging T.J. Gassnola to help them out. That kind of dialogue may look suspicious to the public, but it’s hardly unusual. “Every one of us works the shoe company angle to help us get players,” Brey says. “I speak to those guys as much as I would speak to parents. No question if there was an Under Armour event somewhere, I’d get a call from someone at Under Armour saying, ‘Hey Mike, did you see this 15-year-old kid in Dallas? He’s in our program, you gotta get on him.’ I’m not saying they’d cheat to get him, but damn right they’re helping, absolutely.”
The argument came as a surprise to others who have been involved in the NCAA’s enforcement process. “When I first saw they were classifying Adidas as a booster, my initial reaction was honestly, that’s a slippery slope,” says Molly Richman, an Indianapolis attorney who spent six years on the NCAA’s enforcement staff and now represents universities in infractions cases. “If the enforcement staff is making the argument that just because Kansas has a contract with Adidas then that makes Adidas a booster, I think that’s incredibly unusual. It would have far-reaching implications because that would basically mean that any corporate entity that has a contract with the school is a booster of that school.”
On the one hand, the task of designating a sneaker company as a booster would appear to be a layup. It’s actually written into the bylaw titled “Representatives of Athletics Interests.” The rule defines boosters as “individuals, a corporate entity (e.g., apparel or equipment manufacturer) or other organization” that has met one of five criteria, the last of which is being “involved in promoting the institution’s athletics program.” Read literally, it’s clear that Nike, Adidas and Under Armour meet this definition for a lot of schools.
Traditionally, the NCAA has argued that someone becomes a booster based on his or her actions, not just the relationship with a school. So are Adidas and its employees considered boosters in these specific cases because they steered recruits to these specific schools? Or does their contract alone render them as boosters, which would seem to cover a lot of other situations?
The NCAA seems to be arguing the latter, at least in part. After N.C. State responded to its NOA, the NCAA issued a reply reasserting that “Adidas is an apparel or equipment manufacturer that members of the athletics department staff knew to be promoting the institution’s athletics program, which triggers booster status.” The NCAA went on to list several ways in which Adidas “promotes” N.C. State basketball: providing financial assistance to the athletic department, providing $1.3 million worth of merchandise annually, updating display cases in the basketball office, giving shirts to promote basketball camps, redesigning public displays throughout Reynolds Coliseum. That sounds pretty much like what Adidas, Nike and Under Armour do for major basketball programs all over the country. It’s also what lots of other businesses and corporations do for schools. Does that mean those businesses and their employees are considered boosters too?
Another tricky question is whether this designation would place sneaker companies in jeopardy elsewhere in the NCAA rulebook. In Kansas’ response to its NOA, the school cited a clause in Bylaw 12 that says recruits may receive “actual and necessary expenses” for games and practices from outside sponsors “other than an agent or a representative of an institution’s athletics interests.” This would seem to foreclose the possibility of a booster sponsoring a grassroots or AAU team. Yet almost all of the major grassroots programs in the country are sponsored by sneaker companies. So if sneaker companies are boosters, wouldn’t that mean they are violating this rule — which in turn would mean thousands of college basketball players are ineligible?
These are the questions that extend well beyond these three cases. “I think it’s possible the enforcement staff does prevail on their argument that Adidas is a booster, but I think it’s going to have some unintended consequences,” Richman says. “This was probably a creative way for them to bring allegations they wanted to bring, but when you think about it on a broader scale, it’s going to have some impact down the road. From a bylaw 12 perspective, that would mean that corporate entities could no longer sponsor amateur sports, including in the AAU realm.”
The NCAA delivered its reply to Kansas on Wednesday, and the school released it Thursday. Not surprisingly, the NCAA rebutted Kansas’ argument in that reply. It issued a stern affirmation that Adidas and its employees should be classified as boosters, noting that such concerns about the influence of shoe companies goes back 20 years to the Division I Forum at the NCAA Convention, that Louisville’s compliance director, John Carns, testified in U.S. vs. Gatto et al that shoe apparel companies are considered representatives under NCAA legislation and plenty of case precedent that establishes corporations can be boosters.
In a statement on Thursday, Kansas said, “For the NCAA enforcement staff to allege that the University should be held responsible for these payments is a distortion of the facts and a gross misapplication of NCAA Bylaws and case precedent.” Regardless, it’s clear that the NCAA is determined to press ahead. Clearly, the NCAA is determined to press ahead on its argument that Adidas acted as a booster to help Kansas. The school’s odds of beating that back will depend on whether the Committee on Infractions concerns itself solely with the facts of the case, or whether it also considers the wider implications, which it has done in the past. “You always have to think beyond the particular case and ask yourself, am I opening a can of worms that can’t be contained?” says Jo Potuto, a former chair of the Committee on Infractions who is a Constitutional law professor at Nebraska. “Then you have to go back to the original language of a rule and say, ‘Maybe they didn’t mean this.’ I see the argument Kansas is making. Normally you don’t become a booster just because you’re a shoe company. It’s based on conduct.”
To make matters even more unpredictable, Kansas’ case will almost certainly be decided not by the Committee on Infractions but by the Independent Resolution Panel. This is part of a new enforcement process that came out of the recommendations made by Condoleezza Rice’s committee. The chair of the COI recommended that N.C. State’s case be referred to the independent panel because of the contentiousness of the school’s response to the NOA. Given the strident language in the NCAA’s reply to Kansas, it would be a shock if KU’s case didn’t end up there as well. Louisville is also expecting to end up with the new group.
Because the panel has not decided any cases, it is hard to know whether it will be tougher or more lenient than the COI. The panel’s verdicts cannot be appealed, but given the low success rate of appeals in major infractions cases, that is a distinction without a difference. “The unknown is always scary, but I think in some cases it might be an OK option for schools,” Richman says. “With the FBI cases, I think I might prefer a bunch of lawyers applying the facts to the legislation.”
Meanwhile, Louisville’s defense is just beginning. Now that the school has received its long-awaited NOA, it has 90 days to submit its response, after which the NCAA will have 60 days to reply. Louisville is the seventh school to receive an NOA stemming from the FBI’s investigation. Arizona, Auburn, Creighton and LSU will almost certainly get served as well. The outcomes of those cases will have impacts that reach far beyond the schools. For many decades, sneaker companies have financed college sports and possessed near-total control of grassroots recruiting. If they are going to be officially considered boosters, we could be headed for a whole new ballgame.
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By Seth Davis May 7, 2020 85
On Monday, the NCAA served Louisville with a Notice of Allegations based largely on evidence produced by the FBI’s investigation into college basketball. The most serious charges involve payments that were allegedly arranged by two assistant coaches and a pair of employees at Adidas: Jim Gatto, who was then director of global sports marketing for basketball, and Merl Code, a consultant. The first sentence in the allegation identifies “the Adidas corporation” as a “representative of the institution’s athletic interests.” This is NCAA-speak for “booster,” a term commonly applied to someone who donates to an athletic department.
The booster claim echoed ones that were also made in NOAs the NCAA has served to N.C. State and Kansas. Even without that language those schools would potentially be facing stiff penalties, but the classification of Adidas and the people who worked there as boosters is a critical pillar of the NCAA’s cases. If it weren’t, the NCAA would not have led its strongest allegations by asserting it.
Why is this so significant? Because under NCAA rules, basketball coaches are normally only held accountable for recruiting violations they commit. But if those violations are committed by a booster, then the coaches can be on the hook. Even if there is no evidence the coaches were aware of what was happening, the NCAA can determine that they should have known, and therefore must be penalized as if they did.
The specter of a booster funneling cash to recruits is almost as old as Naismith’s peach basket, but this is the first time the NCAA has so broadly and emphatically tried to apply that label to shoe companies in high-level infractions cases. Whether the NCAA is successful in making this argument will do more than determine how these cases turn out. It could also open up a Pandora’s box of questions asking whether Adidas and other sneaker companies, which basically run grassroots basketball, are violating rules that govern boosters and recruiting. If nothing else, the NCAA is forcing coaches to rethink the role that sneaker companies play in all of this, and how that might have to change their behavior.
“It kind of shocked me,” says Notre Dame coach Mike Brey, who recently served as president of the National Association of Basketball Coaches. “I never thought of it like that. If there’s money changing hands, then yeah, they’re a booster, but I don’t think any of us look at the support we get from sneaker companies and think of that as violations. They’re giving us information to help close the deal (with recruits).”
It’s confusing, to say the least, for the NCAA to claim that coaches are putting themselves in jeopardy by working so closely with sneaker companies. Part of the NCAA’s evidence against Kansas coach Bill Self and his assistant Kurtis Townsend are text messages revealed at trial that showed them encouraging T.J. Gassnola to help them out. That kind of dialogue may look suspicious to the public, but it’s hardly unusual. “Every one of us works the shoe company angle to help us get players,” Brey says. “I speak to those guys as much as I would speak to parents. No question if there was an Under Armour event somewhere, I’d get a call from someone at Under Armour saying, ‘Hey Mike, did you see this 15-year-old kid in Dallas? He’s in our program, you gotta get on him.’ I’m not saying they’d cheat to get him, but damn right they’re helping, absolutely.”
The argument came as a surprise to others who have been involved in the NCAA’s enforcement process. “When I first saw they were classifying Adidas as a booster, my initial reaction was honestly, that’s a slippery slope,” says Molly Richman, an Indianapolis attorney who spent six years on the NCAA’s enforcement staff and now represents universities in infractions cases. “If the enforcement staff is making the argument that just because Kansas has a contract with Adidas then that makes Adidas a booster, I think that’s incredibly unusual. It would have far-reaching implications because that would basically mean that any corporate entity that has a contract with the school is a booster of that school.”
On the one hand, the task of designating a sneaker company as a booster would appear to be a layup. It’s actually written into the bylaw titled “Representatives of Athletics Interests.” The rule defines boosters as “individuals, a corporate entity (e.g., apparel or equipment manufacturer) or other organization” that has met one of five criteria, the last of which is being “involved in promoting the institution’s athletics program.” Read literally, it’s clear that Nike, Adidas and Under Armour meet this definition for a lot of schools.
Traditionally, the NCAA has argued that someone becomes a booster based on his or her actions, not just the relationship with a school. So are Adidas and its employees considered boosters in these specific cases because they steered recruits to these specific schools? Or does their contract alone render them as boosters, which would seem to cover a lot of other situations?
The NCAA seems to be arguing the latter, at least in part. After N.C. State responded to its NOA, the NCAA issued a reply reasserting that “Adidas is an apparel or equipment manufacturer that members of the athletics department staff knew to be promoting the institution’s athletics program, which triggers booster status.” The NCAA went on to list several ways in which Adidas “promotes” N.C. State basketball: providing financial assistance to the athletic department, providing $1.3 million worth of merchandise annually, updating display cases in the basketball office, giving shirts to promote basketball camps, redesigning public displays throughout Reynolds Coliseum. That sounds pretty much like what Adidas, Nike and Under Armour do for major basketball programs all over the country. It’s also what lots of other businesses and corporations do for schools. Does that mean those businesses and their employees are considered boosters too?
Another tricky question is whether this designation would place sneaker companies in jeopardy elsewhere in the NCAA rulebook. In Kansas’ response to its NOA, the school cited a clause in Bylaw 12 that says recruits may receive “actual and necessary expenses” for games and practices from outside sponsors “other than an agent or a representative of an institution’s athletics interests.” This would seem to foreclose the possibility of a booster sponsoring a grassroots or AAU team. Yet almost all of the major grassroots programs in the country are sponsored by sneaker companies. So if sneaker companies are boosters, wouldn’t that mean they are violating this rule — which in turn would mean thousands of college basketball players are ineligible?
These are the questions that extend well beyond these three cases. “I think it’s possible the enforcement staff does prevail on their argument that Adidas is a booster, but I think it’s going to have some unintended consequences,” Richman says. “This was probably a creative way for them to bring allegations they wanted to bring, but when you think about it on a broader scale, it’s going to have some impact down the road. From a bylaw 12 perspective, that would mean that corporate entities could no longer sponsor amateur sports, including in the AAU realm.”
The NCAA delivered its reply to Kansas on Wednesday, and the school released it Thursday. Not surprisingly, the NCAA rebutted Kansas’ argument in that reply. It issued a stern affirmation that Adidas and its employees should be classified as boosters, noting that such concerns about the influence of shoe companies goes back 20 years to the Division I Forum at the NCAA Convention, that Louisville’s compliance director, John Carns, testified in U.S. vs. Gatto et al that shoe apparel companies are considered representatives under NCAA legislation and plenty of case precedent that establishes corporations can be boosters.
In a statement on Thursday, Kansas said, “For the NCAA enforcement staff to allege that the University should be held responsible for these payments is a distortion of the facts and a gross misapplication of NCAA Bylaws and case precedent.” Regardless, it’s clear that the NCAA is determined to press ahead. Clearly, the NCAA is determined to press ahead on its argument that Adidas acted as a booster to help Kansas. The school’s odds of beating that back will depend on whether the Committee on Infractions concerns itself solely with the facts of the case, or whether it also considers the wider implications, which it has done in the past. “You always have to think beyond the particular case and ask yourself, am I opening a can of worms that can’t be contained?” says Jo Potuto, a former chair of the Committee on Infractions who is a Constitutional law professor at Nebraska. “Then you have to go back to the original language of a rule and say, ‘Maybe they didn’t mean this.’ I see the argument Kansas is making. Normally you don’t become a booster just because you’re a shoe company. It’s based on conduct.”
To make matters even more unpredictable, Kansas’ case will almost certainly be decided not by the Committee on Infractions but by the Independent Resolution Panel. This is part of a new enforcement process that came out of the recommendations made by Condoleezza Rice’s committee. The chair of the COI recommended that N.C. State’s case be referred to the independent panel because of the contentiousness of the school’s response to the NOA. Given the strident language in the NCAA’s reply to Kansas, it would be a shock if KU’s case didn’t end up there as well. Louisville is also expecting to end up with the new group.
Because the panel has not decided any cases, it is hard to know whether it will be tougher or more lenient than the COI. The panel’s verdicts cannot be appealed, but given the low success rate of appeals in major infractions cases, that is a distinction without a difference. “The unknown is always scary, but I think in some cases it might be an OK option for schools,” Richman says. “With the FBI cases, I think I might prefer a bunch of lawyers applying the facts to the legislation.”
Meanwhile, Louisville’s defense is just beginning. Now that the school has received its long-awaited NOA, it has 90 days to submit its response, after which the NCAA will have 60 days to reply. Louisville is the seventh school to receive an NOA stemming from the FBI’s investigation. Arizona, Auburn, Creighton and LSU will almost certainly get served as well. The outcomes of those cases will have impacts that reach far beyond the schools. For many decades, sneaker companies have financed college sports and possessed near-total control of grassroots recruiting. If they are going to be officially considered boosters, we could be headed for a whole new ballgame.
Member schools losing their fat shoe money contracts is a brilliant strategy by the NCAA. I’ll pay money myself to watch athletic departments across the country sever ties with apparel companies to comply with the NCAA if its ruled these companies are boosters (I believe they are, don’t care).
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One of my children had their education costs covered as a result of ncaa scholarship in a non revenue sport. There are other members here who have children that received the same.
Not treated like cattle and it was a tremendous opportunity to travel, work with a team, experience an aspect of life that most do not. It was not 100% roses, and that is part of the learning experience you go through when you are not playing as much as you want or balancing school and athletics. The payoff was the ability to organize, prioritize, simplify, and cope. It paid off post graduate.
My child’s experience is not unique. I would say it is the norm for most student athletes.
Here’s the thing, your child was getting the benefits, but as an athlete in a non-revenue sport, they were not paying the bill. Someone else’s child did the work that paid for your child’s benefits as well as their own and the cash that made a coach rich and athletic administrators well off. I bet neither you nor your child even said thank you to the kid who did the work paying your kid’s way.
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Here’s the thing, your child was getting the benefits, but as an athlete in a non-revenue sport, they were not paying the bill. Someone else’s child was forced to do the work that paid for your child’s benefits as well as their own and the cash that made a coach rich and athletic administrators well off. I bet neither you nor your child even said thank you to the kid who was forced to pay your kid’s way.
This has to be the worst post ever. Name one person in the 100+ years of college sports to be forced to do anything. Unbelievable!
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Here’s the thing, your child was getting the benefits, but as an athlete in a non-revenue sport, they were not paying the bill. Someone else’s child did the work that paid for your child’s benefits as well as their own and the cash that made a coach rich and athletic administrators well off. I bet neither you nor your child even said thank you to the kid who did the work paying your kid’s way.
So, welfare for college athletes, eh?
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So, welfare for college athletes, eh?
Exactly what I was going to say...it's the same thing in all honesty.
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This has to be the worst post ever. Name one person in the 100+ years of college sports to be forced to do anything. Unbelievable!
Forced was a little strong which is why I changed my post's wording. However, coercion is not accomplished solely by a gun to the head. When the only opportunity to do what gives you the greatest joy in life and possibly earn a living at it requires you to submit to playing for a monopoly for a period of years that determines (limits) compensation that its members can pay you, then you are forced. Once the NBA was formed and decided to allow the NCAA to function as its minor leagues, the NCAA's amateurism model became outdated. Like many kinds of injustice, it started out small but grew big as the money to be made from college basketball steadily increased. The lengths that Universities and their boosters are willing to go to to circumvent the recruiting rules that are the subject of this thread are proof of that.
I wasn't a college athlete or in ever any danger of being one, but I can empathetic enough to understand how the injustice of being denied just compensation for the value my efforts are generating. Not everyone is capable of empathy, I get that.
While we're on the subject of worst posts ever, maybe in the future you can actually reply with an argument for your position, rather than just labeling something you disagree with as "the worst", and then just stating your opinion as if it were a fact.
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Thanks, cheeks
When you can not argue the facts.
You make good points against the NCAA, but you only bring a limited view. There are others here that have children that are or were student athletes. It would be nice to hear their perspectives. In our family, it was a net positive experience in any number of factors. For some families and students, it will not be. That is no different than anything in life. I can only speak for our experience and those we have shared with other families in the program in which the feeling was generally positive.
In my opinion you are representing only a small part of the 500,000 student athletes and ignoring most of their experiences. I provided some context for those you are not. Maybe others here will do the same. Herman Cain, Still Warrior, and probably three or four others have said their children played NCAA sports in one division or another.
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Here’s the thing, your child was getting the benefits, but as an athlete in a non-revenue sport, they were not paying the bill. Someone else’s child did the work that paid for your child’s benefits as well as their own and the cash that made a coach rich and athletic administrators well off. I bet neither you nor your child even said thank you to the kid who did the work paying your kid’s way.
You don’t know the first thing of what you speak of. My child worked every bit as hard as any of the revenue athletes in time, practice, dedication, heartache, travel and other factors.
Try telling the cross country runner they are not working. Or the water polo player. Or the wrestler. The non revenue sports participants are greatly aware of how the economics work. They also know the first class treatment the revenue athletes received vs the non revenue ones. The basketball team flies charter, they get on a bus or fly commercial coach. They stay at a red lion inn, while the revenue teams stay at much nicer accommodations. The locker rooms are nowhere close to the same.
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Forced was a little strong which is why I changed my post's wording. However, coercion is not accomplished solely by a gun to the head. When the only opportunity to do what gives you the greatest joy in life and possibly earn a living at it requires you to submit to playing for a monopoly for a period of years that determines (limits) compensation that its members can pay you, then you are forced. Once the NBA was formed and decided to allow the NCAA to function as its minor leagues, the NCAA's amateurism model became outdated. Like many kinds of injustice, it started out small but grew big as the money to be made from college basketball steadily increased. The lengths that Universities and their boosters are willing to go to to circumvent the recruiting rules that are the subject of this thread are proof of that.
I wasn't a college athlete or in ever any danger of being one, but I can empathetic enough to understand how the injustice of being denied just compensation for the value my efforts are generating. Not everyone is capable of empathy, I get that.
While we're on the subject of worst posts ever, maybe in the future you can actually reply with an argument for your position, rather than just labeling something you disagree with as "the worst", and then just stating your opinion as if it were a fact.
There about 4 ir 5 college athletes that move the needle each year out of 100,000 athletes. People follow their teams regardless of the names. Except for the 4 or 5 they're all getting a great deal.
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There about 4 ir 5 college athletes that move the needle each year out of 100,000 athletes. People follow their teams regardless of the names. Except for the 4 or 5 they're all getting a great deal.
So, if Marquette dropped down to D-3 support would stay the same because people follow their teams regardless of the names?
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So, if Marquette dropped down to D-3 support would stay the same because people follow their teams regardless of the names?
No. Did you stop following MU after Wade left? These players are gifted and awesome to watch but most of us will support them because they play for MU not because of them individually.
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No. Did you stop following MU after Wade left? These players are gifted and awesome to watch but most of us will support them because they play for MU not because of them individually.
But there is a certain expectation of quality. That is my point. I get that MU fans will equally cheer for Wade or Howard, Joe Chapman or Greg Elliott.
But replace D-1 quality players with, let's say D-3 quality, and the interest isn't nearly the same. The name of the school only has so much value, and collectively the D-1 talent pool is adding value.
Quantifying how much value is the real question.
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But there is a certain expectation of quality. That is my point. I get that MU fans will equally cheer for Wade or Howard, Joe Chapman or Greg Elliott.
But replace D-1 quality players with, let's say D-3 quality, and the interest isn't nearly the same. The name of the school only has so much value, and collectively the D-1 talent pool is adding value.
Quantifying how much value is the real question.
IMO the interest would be comparable if all schools were using players of the same quality. That is why I would like a basketball minor league be established for those players not interested in college and let those who are play for Duke, UNC, KY and MU and actually pursue a degree. I'm pretty certain fan interest would remain high.
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UK will go down for this.
https://www.si.com/college/2020/05/08/kansas-basketball-scandal-bill-self-tj-gassnola
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UK will go down for this.
https://www.si.com/college/2020/05/08/kansas-basketball-scandal-bill-self-tj-gassnola
Doubtful.
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Doubtful.
LMAO...they got hit with 5 level 1 violations, what do you think is going to happen, they will just drop everything?? Not going to happen. They will get taken behind the woodshed.
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LMAO...they got hit with 5 level 1 violations, what do you think is going to happen, they will just drop everything?? Not going to happen. They will get taken behind the woodshed.
Sure if “taken behind the woodshed” means Bill Self misses 8 buy games and 4 good non-con games, they lose their last 2 bench scholarships for 3 years, and they forfeit games they already won then yes, there’s a chance they get “taken behind the woodshed.”
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Here's a question that I'm not sure I've seen anyone ask here. Assuming Kansas is found responsible for everything they are accused of doing, what sanction(s) would be harsh enough to make you think that they have been properly held accountable? What punishment do you think fits the crime?
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Here's a question that I'm not sure I've seen anyone ask here. Assuming Kansas is found responsible for everything they are accused of doing, what sanction(s) would be harsh enough to make you think that they have been properly held accountable? What punishment do you think fits the crime?
I mean if they want to get serious about getting rid of cheating in college sports, the death penalty. Go watch their “Late Night” hype video last year. Self wearing Adidas (not even Kansas Adidas) gear, a chain with a money sign on it, and then throwing around fake money at the event (with stripper polls). Just sticking the middle finger up.
Realistically there’s no chance they do that. So give them 4 years of post season bans and tell every recruit signed and player in the program they are free to leave with no sit out year (unless they are a player that took payments). Scholarship reductions for 5+ years.
But again, ain’t happening. Max that happens is a moderate suspension for Self, a couple of scholarships taken, and some games in the past now “forfeited.”
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LMAO...they got hit with 5 level 1 violations, what do you think is going to happen, they will just drop everything?? Not going to happen. They will get taken behind the woodshed.
Kansas got taken behind the woodshed after 1988 and was back in the Final Four in 1991
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Here's a question that I'm not sure I've seen anyone ask here. Assuming Kansas is found responsible for everything they are accused of doing, what sanction(s) would be harsh enough to make you think that they have been properly held accountable? What punishment do you think fits the crime?
I commented on this early in the thread...nothing less than multiple post season bans, and multiple loss of scholarships/recruiting restrictions over several years, Self with at minimum a show cause for several years. Fans/programs don't care about anything other than post season bans. It has to sting, and sting badly for it to have an effect. Forfeiting wins, removing banners, probation and a few lost scholarships is meaningless to a program and it's fans. They consider that a win.
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Kansas got taken behind the woodshed after 1988 and was back in the Final Four in 1991
A one year post season ban, a few lost scholarships and recruiting restrictions is hardly getting taken behind the woodshed.
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A one year post season ban, a few lost scholarships and recruiting restrictions is hardly getting taken behind the woodshed.
The NCAA will never take a member institute “behind the woodshed” because they know if they do so, it’s only a matter of time before major conferences leave the NCAA.
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I commented on this early in the thread...nothing less than multiple post season bans, and multiple loss of scholarships/recruiting restrictions over several years, Self with at minimum a show cause for several years. Fans/programs don't care about anything other than post season bans. It has to sting, and sting badly for it to have an effect. Forfeiting wins, removing banners, probation and a few lost scholarships is meaningless to a program and it's fans. They consider that a win.
All because of our stupid devotion to amateurism.
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All because of our stupid devotion to amateurism.
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My good friend was a walk on for KU's 1998 championship team and a big booster. He told me Self and KU are toast.
That said, i wouldn't be surprised if KU has a new coach and a top ten team in two years.
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My good friend was a walk on for KU's 1998 championship team and a big booster. He told me Self and KU are toast.
That said, i wouldn't be surprised if KU has a new coach and a top ten team in two years.
Both things can be true.
Really, if you’re a Marquette fan and you’re cheering for the NCAA in this case, you’re cheering for the end of apparel company influence and money. My guess is, Marquette wants and needs that money but “amateurism”.
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Both things can be true.
Really, if you’re a Marquette fan and you’re cheering for the NCAA in this case, you’re cheering for the end of apparel company influence and money. My guess is, Marquette wants and needs that money but “amateurism”.
Agreed. I just want a level playing field.
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Agreed. I just want a level playing field.
There isn’t a level playing field in any sport, though. There certainly isn’t in the NCAA. I guess the idea or presenting the notion there is sounds good in theory but there has never been a level playing field in college athletics
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There isn’t a level playing field in any sport, though. There certainly isn’t in the NCAA. I guess the idea or presenting the notion there is sounds good in theory but there has never been a level playing field in college athletics
Then there needs to be one, right?? Or as close to one as possible, wouldn't you agree??
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Then there needs to be one, right?? Or as close to one as possible, wouldn't you agree??
There isn’t one. Never has been. There are rules but a level playing field means everyone has the same resources, facilities and so on.
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Both things can be true.
Really, if you’re a Marquette fan and you’re cheering for the NCAA in this case, you’re cheering for the end of apparel company influence and money. My guess is, Marquette wants and needs that money but “amateurism”.
And its nonsensical to suggest that shoe company money is going to go away. The shoe companies make these payments because there is a financial payoff down the line. Just declaring them "boosters" isn't going to make the illegal "benefits" go away. It will simply push them further underground.
Legalize it. Regulate it. Tax it. There is no societal harm from students getting money from a shoe company to go to a particular school. In fact I would argue having transactions taking place above board in a regulated environment is likely more beneficial for the student athlete, the school and society at large.
And the playing field has never been less level. Look at the media rights payments, coaches salaries, facilities, etc. and tell me how the field is even close to being level now.
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And its nonsensical to suggest that shoe company money is going to go away. The shoe companies make these payments because there is a financial payoff down the line. Just declaring them "boosters" isn't going to make the illegal "benefits" go away. It will simply push them further underground.
Legalize it. Regulate it. Tax it. There is no societal harm from students getting money from a shoe company to go to a particular school. In fact I would argue having transactions taking place above board in a regulated environment is likely more beneficial for the student athlete, the school and society at large.
And the playing field has never been less level. Look at the media rights payments, coaches salaries, facilities, etc. and tell me how the field is even close to being level now.
Some people don’t like capitalism
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And its nonsensical to suggest that shoe company money is going to go away. The shoe companies make these payments because there is a financial payoff down the line. Just declaring them "boosters" isn't going to make the illegal "benefits" go away. It will simply push them further underground.
Legalize it. Regulate it. Tax it. There is no societal harm from students getting money from a shoe company to go to a particular school. In fact I would argue having transactions taking place above board in a regulated environment is likely more beneficial for the student athlete, the school and society at large.
And the playing field has never been less level. Look at the media rights payments, coaches salaries, facilities, etc. and tell me how the field is even close to being level now.
This is where I think a change could be made, but I don't know if it's a viable solution or not, but what about some sort of "revenue sharing" amongst all the schools?? I know there's something kinda similar with tourney credits among conferences etc, but I don't think that's enough. What about something like where the NCAA takes all the money earned from the tourney etc, and distributes it equally amongst all it's members?? Whether the SEC earned a vast majority of the $$ via TV contract or not, EVERYONE gets an equal amount.
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And its nonsensical to suggest that shoe company money is going to go away. The shoe companies make these payments because there is a financial payoff down the line. Just declaring them "boosters" isn't going to make the illegal "benefits" go away. It will simply push them further underground.
Legalize it. Regulate it. Tax it. There is no societal harm from students getting money from a shoe company to go to a particular school. In fact I would argue having transactions taking place above board in a regulated environment is likely more beneficial for the student athlete, the school and society at large.
And the playing field has never been less level. Look at the media rights payments, coaches salaries, facilities, etc. and tell me how the field is even close to being level now.
The ONLY way I could support something like this is if it's somehow equal...like Player X will get the exact same amount going to MU as he would to say Kentucky. That way, the kid/family need to make a decision based on things that should really matter like the school itself, the facilities etc. They may still choose Kentucky in the end, but not all of them would. Institute some sort of "salary cap" the shoe companies can help you get players, but they have are given a limited amount of resources to do it.
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This is where I think a change could be made, but I don't know if it's a viable solution or not, but what about some sort of "revenue sharing" amongst all the schools?? I know there's something kinda similar with tourney credits among conferences etc, but I don't think that's enough. What about something like where the NCAA takes all the money earned from the tourney etc, and distributes it equally amongst all it's members?? Whether the SEC earned a vast majority of the $$ via TV contract or not, EVERYONE gets an equal amount.
On the one hand, I get it. But I think there are too many D1 schools already, and 75% of them don't move the needle whatsoever. So I'm not sure they deserve an equal share of the NCAA pot.
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The ONLY way I could support something like this is if it's somehow equal...like Player X will get the exact same amount going to MU as he would to say Kentucky. That way, the kid/family need to make a decision based on things that should really matter like the school itself, the facilities etc. They may still choose Kentucky in the end, but not all of them would. Institute some sort of "salary cap" the shoe companies can help you get players, but they have are given a limited amount of resources to do it.
If we cap player “salaries”, then shouldn’t we cap coaches salaries?
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If we cap player “salaries”, then shouldn’t we cap coaches salaries?
That's illegal. Unless they are part of a union and its detailed in a CBA.
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That's illegal. Unless they are part of a union and its detailed in a CBA.
At least someone is getting rich off amateurism.
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On the one hand, I get it. But I think there are too many D1 schools already, and 75% of them don't move the needle whatsoever. So I'm not sure they deserve an equal share of the NCAA pot.
I don't disagree with you at all..I mean I don't really care about the Fordham's or the Savnnah St's of the world, and this is why I have always been a proponent of "splitting up" the D1 schools. I have said it before, let the smaller schools have their own "division" so to speak, and let the larger, more powerful schools have their own. All under the same Umbrella, but just separate. Not unlike D2 or D3, all under the same NCAA umbrella, but different levels.
I have always wanted an NCAA tournament with the best 64 teams in the country take the top 6 leagues in BB(Sec, BXII, Big ten, BE etc) and the tournament is played with those teams. Then the mid/low majors(The A-10, Missouri Valley, Southern etc) have their own tournament as well. That way, those schools can at least think they have a chance to win an NCAA championship. They have no shot now.
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At least someone is getting rich off amateurism.
I think someone needs to find a new sport to follow.
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I think someone needs to find a new sport to follow.
My interest has certainly waned through the years. I’m pulling for the kids, though
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I think someone needs to find a new sport to follow.
Why? There is nothing about amateurism that defines the college sports experience. Students could be making money and it would be no different.
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I have always wanted an NCAA tournament with the best 64 teams in the country take the top 6 leagues in BB(Sec, BXII, Big ten, BE etc) and the tournament is played with those teams. Then the mid/low majors(The A-10, Missouri Valley, Southern etc) have their own tournament as well. That way, those schools can at least think they have a chance to win an NCAA championship. They have no shot now.
No shot? Dayton and Zags were probable #1 seeds this year. SDST a #2?
LUC, VCU, WSU are recent FF entrants.
When WSU had a #1 seed I’m sure they thought they had a shot.
When Zags and Butler were playing for a title I’m guessing they thought they had a shot.
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I don't disagree with you at all..I mean I don't really care about the Fordham's or the Savnnah St's of the world, and this is why I have always been a proponent of "splitting up" the D1 schools. I have said it before, let the smaller schools have their own "division" so to speak, and let the larger, more powerful schools have their own. All under the same Umbrella, but just separate. Not unlike D2 or D3, all under the same NCAA umbrella, but different levels.
I have always wanted an NCAA tournament with the best 64 teams in the country take the top 6 leagues in BB(Sec, BXII, Big ten, BE etc) and the tournament is played with those teams. Then the mid/low majors(The A-10, Missouri Valley, Southern etc) have their own tournament as well. That way, those schools can at least think they have a chance to win an NCAA championship. They have no shot now.
Butler when they were a Horizon team quite literally had a shot to win it...
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Daniel Wallach
@WALLACHLEGAL
NEW: Zion Williamson’s former marketing agent has served requests for admission in their lawsuit asking him to admit that he received “money, benefits, favors or other things of value” to attend Duke University and to wear and/or use Nike and Adidas.
Wow. That escalated quickly.
https://247sports.com/Article/Zion-Williamson-former-marketing-agent-lawsuit-alleges-received-money-benefits-Duke-Nike-Adidas-147006166/Amp/?__twitter_impression=true
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Daniel Wallach
@WALLACHLEGAL
NEW: Zion Williamson’s former marketing agent has served requests for admission in their lawsuit asking him to admit that he received “money, benefits, favors or other things of value” to attend Duke University and to wear and/or use Nike and Adidas.
Wow. That escalated quickly.
https://247sports.com/Article/Zion-Williamson-former-marketing-agent-lawsuit-alleges-received-money-benefits-Duke-Nike-Adidas-147006166/Amp/?__twitter_impression=true
That is about the least surprising thing I’ve read on the internet since the turn of the new year.
But people think that players with 6 digit offers from other schools are choosing to play for Cal or K for free. ::) :o
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On the one hand, I get it. But I think there are too many D1 schools already, and 75% of them don't move the needle whatsoever. So I'm not sure they deserve an equal share of the NCAA pot.
They don’t get an equal share. It’s based upon earned tourney units. The more teams in and the more wins equals more earned units.
The SWAC gets one unit if their team is a one and done. The BE gets six teams in do they get six plus one more for each win. Nova brought six units back to the conference alone in 2016 and 2018 (champ doesn’t get an extra unit). Then the conference decides how to distribute. Some do equal, some give significantly more to the school that earns it (e.g., A10 gives 75% to the s Joel that earns each unit).
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I don't disagree with you at all..I mean I don't really care about the Fordham's or the Savnnah St's of the world, and this is why I have always been a proponent of "splitting up" the D1 schools. I have said it before, let the smaller schools have their own "division" so to speak, and let the larger, more powerful schools have their own. All under the same Umbrella, but just separate. Not unlike D2 or D3, all under the same NCAA umbrella, but different levels.
I have always wanted an NCAA tournament with the best 64 teams in the country take the top 6 leagues in BB(Sec, BXII, Big ten, BE etc) and the tournament is played with those teams. Then the mid/low majors(The A-10, Missouri Valley, Southern etc) have their own tournament as well. That way, those schools can at least think they have a chance to win an NCAA championship. They have no shot now.
Except that the larger more powerful schools have football. Goodbye Big East.
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At least someone is getting rich off amateurism.
Do you believe the women's soccer team are amateurs? How about the men's tennis team?
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Do you believe the women's soccer team are amateurs? How about the men's tennis team?
I believe they should be able to earn off their name, image and likeness like any other student athlete.
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There isn’t one. Never has been. There are rules but a level playing field means everyone has the same resources, facilities and so on.
Which is impossible. Even in the pros with a salary cap one can say the weather is better in San Diego than Chicago. One pro team plays in a brand new building, another one doesn't. There is no way to make a truly level playing field in college or pro sports.
Fans refer to a level playing field as it relates to eligibility and recruiting rules.
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Which is impossible. Even in the pros with a salary cap one can say the weather is better in San Diego than Chicago. One pro team plays in a brand new building, another one doesn't. There is no way to make a truly level playing field in college or pro sports.
Fans refer to a level playing field as it relates to eligibility and recruiting rules.
They’ll be disappointed. Pretty safe bet their preferred school stretches those rules themselves
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They don’t get an equal share. It’s based upon earned tourney units. The more teams in and the more wins equals more earned units.
The SWAC gets one unit if their team is a one and done. The BE gets six teams in do they get six plus one more for each win. Nova brought six units back to the conference alone in 2016 and 2018 (champ doesn’t get an extra unit). Then the conference decides how to distribute. Some do equal, some give significantly more to the school that earns it (e.g., A10 gives 75% to the s Joel that earns each unit).
You aren’t reading the thread correctly. Equal shares was guru’s idea.
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I believe they should be able to earn off their name, image and likeness like any other student athlete.
Do you believe they are amateurs?
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Do you believe they are amateurs?
Yes
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There isn’t a level playing field in any sport, though. There certainly isn’t in the NCAA. I guess the idea or presenting the notion there is sounds good in theory but there has never been a level playing field in college athletics
Okay, a leveler playing field then.
I certainly don’t want Marquette to give up its advantages such as a top flight NBA arena to play in, availability of a private plane for recruiting, etc.
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On the one hand, I get it. But I think there are too many D1 schools already, and 75% of them don't move the needle whatsoever. So I'm not sure they deserve an equal share of the NCAA pot.
Not even Chicago State?
I agree that most Division I basketball programs shouldn’t revenue share. Just think of the rush of schools joining Division I, if that went into effect.
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This could get fun ...
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/article242637771.html?
The legal battle between Zion Williamson and his former agent in a Florida court now includes allegations he received impermissible benefits prior to his one season playing basketball at Duke.
According to court documents filed Wednesday in Miami, Gina Ford of Prime Sports Marketing claims, without presenting evidence, that Williamson and his parents “demanded and received gifts, money and/or other benefits from persons on behalf of Duke University (directly and/or indirectly) to influence you to attend Duke University to play basketball.”
Ford’s claims are included in several requests for admission, a discovery tool in civil cases used to establish facts under oath. Williamson has 30 days to respond.
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Daniel Wallach
@WALLACHLEGAL
·
4h
Here are 3 explosive new allegations in the Zion Williamson case.
1. Marketing agent met with Zion’s parents in Jan. 2019 (while he was still a student-athlete)
2. Brokered by a Zion friend who says Gina Ford promised him a 5% cut.
3. $100K wired to stepfather in April 2019
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Daniel Wallach
@WALLACHLEGAL
·
4h
Here are 3 explosive new allegations in the Zion Williamson case.
1. Marketing agent met with Zion’s parents in Jan. 2019 (while he was still a student-athlete)
2. Brokered by a Zion friend who says Gina Ford promised him a 5% cut.
3. $100K wired to stepfather in April 2019
Yep ... this could spell trouble for North Carolina A&T!
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Yep ... this could spell trouble for North Carolina A&T!
Nah. Duke will probably get hit with punishments. In 2027. After the wins. After the money. After everyone involved has moved on. After the fans got to celebrate the success.
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Nah. Duke will probably get hit with punishments. In 2027. After the wins. After the money. After everyone involved has moved on. After the fans got to celebrate the success.
But everyone will have learned a valuable lesson
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Daniel Wallach
@WALLACHLEGAL
·
4h
Here are 3 explosive new allegations in the Zion Williamson case.
1. Marketing agent met with Zion’s parents in Jan. 2019 (while he was still a student-athlete)
2. Brokered by a Zion friend who says Gina Ford promised him a 5% cut.
3. $100K wired to stepfather in April 2019
4. Zion got special shoes, which exploded.
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Daniel Wallach
@WALLACHLEGAL
·
4h
Here are 3 explosive new allegations in the Zion Williamson case.
1. Marketing agent met with Zion’s parents in Jan. 2019 (while he was still a student-athlete)
2. Brokered by a Zion friend who says Gina Ford promised him a 5% cut.
3. $100K wired to stepfather in April 2019
1. Just meeting with a marketing agent is not impermissible;
2. This could be a problem but only if an agreement for representation was reached (verbally or in writing) or they marketed him to organizations/companies with his knowledge;
3. This would be the smoking gun. There will be records of a wire transfer.
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1. Just meeting with a marketing agent is not impermissible;
2. This could be a problem but only if an agreement for representation was reached (verbally or in writing) or they marketed him to organizations/companies with his knowledge;
3. This would be the smoking gun. There will be records of a wire transfer.
None of that is even close to a problem for Duke/K/Zion as long as he has "plausible deniability" ala Cam Newton, correct?
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None of that is even close to a problem for Duke/K/Zion as long as he has "plausible deniability" ala Cam Newton, correct?
Even if there isn’t plausible deniability, there is no way Duke basketball is getting punished in any meaningful way by the NCAA.
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Even if there isn’t plausible deniability, there is no way Duke basketball is getting punished in any meaningful way by the NCAA.
I agree but it takes a little shine off the Duke brand. I thought they did things the right way.
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Zion's college career ended in March 2019, so the alleged wire transfer came after.
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1. Just meeting with a marketing agent is not impermissible;
2. This could be a problem but only if an agreement for representation was reached (verbally or in writing) or they marketed him to organizations/companies with his knowledge;
3. This would be the smoking gun. There will be records of a wire transfer.
As far as the 100k goes, notice it says in April of 2019...is that even a problem since that is AFTER the season and his eligibility was up at that point anyway??
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I agree but it takes a little shine off the Duke brand.
Maybe for you or me or other fans. But I doubt this would make many (if any) recruits who had been hoping and dreaming to play for Duke decide to go elsewhere. And I doubt they'll be ESPN's featured game any less. And I doubt they will be invited to fewer prestigious in-season events. Etc, etc, etc.
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Maybe for you or me or other fans. But I doubt this would make many (if any) recruits who had been hoping and dreaming to play for Duke decide to go elsewhere. And I doubt they'll be ESPN's featured game any less. And I doubt they will be invited to fewer prestigious in-season events. Etc, etc, etc.
Maybe recruits who aren't getting the same $$ go elsewhere?
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Maybe for you or me or other fans. But I doubt this would make many (if any) recruits who had been hoping and dreaming to play for Duke decide to go elsewhere. And I doubt they'll be ESPN's featured game any less. And I doubt they will be invited to fewer prestigious in-season events. Etc, etc, etc.
I think you're right. Kind of like ND football.
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As far as the 100k goes, notice it says in April of 2019...is that even a problem since that is AFTER the season and his eligibility was up at that point anyway??
that is correct unless it was previously agreed upon transfer to be made once he decided to move on and no longer play college hoops.
For example, signing with an agent the day after the season is over is ok, but if you have a verbal agreement to do so prior to that day then you committed a violation.
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Daniel Wallach
@WALLACHLEGAL
·
1h
NEW: Gina Ford’s attorneys send out new discovery requests seeking to connect Zion Williamson to broader NCAA bribery scandal by targeting communications between CAA and the following: Duke, Mike Krzyzewski, Nike, Adidas, Merl Code, Jeffrey Auerbach and Gary Franklin.
https://twitter.com/WALLACHLEGAL/status/1260275214161674240?s=20
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Pete Thamel
@PeteThamel
·
38s
Source: The NCAA Committee on infractions has requested that the Kansas NCAA infractions case be referred to the IARP independent review panel. This is the second SDNY case trending that way, as NC State is there. (As @ByPatForde
reported.)
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Pete Thamel
@PeteThamel
·
38s
Source: The NCAA Committee on infractions has requested that the Kansas NCAA infractions case be referred to the IARP independent review panel. This is the second SDNY case trending that way, as NC State is there. (As @ByPatForde
reported.)
Anyone wager a guess why the infractions committee won't issue a ruling on their own?
How often does the buck get passed like this?
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Anyone wager a guess why the infractions committee won't issue a ruling on their own?
How often does the buck get passed like this?
This is a new committee that was formed within the last two years. They haven't heard a case yet, but sounds like NC State and Memphis will both be appearing in front of them as well.
You can read more about it here..
https://iarpcc.org/
One key thing about this committee is there is no appeals process. Their decision is final
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Let's not forget that NC State, Kansas, etc. are part of the schools that make these rules for the NCAA.
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Let's not forget that NC State, Kansas, etc. are part of the schools that make these rules for the NCAA.
Yup, and the member schools ASKED for this committee because they wanted something "unbiased". So now you know what's going to happen?? The schools that have their cases heard in front of this committee are going to bitch because they can't appeal..so..they will sue instead.
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Yup, and the member schools ASKED for this committee because they wanted something "unbiased". So now you know what's going to happen?? The schools that have their cases heard in front of this committee are going to bitch because they can't appeal..so..they will sue instead.
Right? What would a college degree be worth if the ethics of the academic side of these schools were the same as the athletic side?
As I've mentioned before, my friend and big booster of KU told me Self is guilty as charged. He and many KU boosters are ready to move on.
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Right? What would a college degree be worth if the ethics of the academic side of these schools were the same as the athletic side?
As I've mentioned before, my friend and big booster of KU told me Self is guilty as charged. He and many KU boosters are ready to move on.
Of course on the Kansas board all they are talking about is sue, sue sue, disband the NCAA yadda yadda yadda..they think they are making an example of KU and how the NCAA never enforces penalties the same. Ummm, well let's see, first of all, let's say someone commits a robbery, does every single offender get the exact same sentence every time?? It doesn't matter that even IF KU had no knowledge of this going on(they did), Self can still get a show cause because the NCAA rule says even if A Coach doesn't know, he should know and he is responsible for everything that goes on in his program. It's ridiculous how much fan bases cry foul over this stuff and live in a world of denial...5 level 1 violations...and they expect to skate scott free?? It will be interesting to see how this independent committee rules on different cases...I know I sure wouldn't want to go in front of it.
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Anyone wager a guess why the infractions committee won't issue a ruling on their own?
How often does the buck get passed like this?
They can't figure out how to punish Mizzou, again.
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NCAA is done unnatural carnal knowledgeing around...Ok St gets postseason ban
https://twitter.com/PeteThamel/status/1268938741944590336?s=20
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NCAA is done unnatural carnal knowledgeing around...Ok St gets postseason ban
https://twitter.com/PeteThamel/status/1268938741944590336?s=20
Cade Cunningham to MU
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NCAA is done unnatural carnal knowledgeing around...Ok St gets postseason ban
https://twitter.com/PeteThamel/status/1268938741944590336?s=20
Should’ve been a year from now. This punishes the kids in the program now who had nothing to do with this. Announce their ban for the 2022 postseason and let kids leave between now and the start of the 21-22 season with no sit out year.
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Should’ve been a year from now. This punishes the kids in the program now who had nothing to do with this. Announce their ban for the 2022 postseason and let kids leave between now and the start of the 21-22 season with no sit out year.
They can leave now and wouldn't have to sit a year..they would all be granted a waiver
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Should’ve been a year from now. This punishes the kids in the program now who had nothing to do with this. Announce their ban for the 2022 postseason and let kids leave between now and the start of the 21-22 season with no sit out year.
Isn’t that always the argument that the kids today are punished for behavior on the past? No good timelines to avoid that I can think of.
Good to see NCAA punishing the cheaters.
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Cade Cunningham to MU
I know that this is in teal, and that we wouldn't be involved if he became available, but since these sanctions have come in, would he be able to get a release from his LOI if he wanted? Any chance he would just James Wiseman it since he's pretty much a lock for the lottery?
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Maybe now players looking at Kansas, Arizona, and such for 2021 won’t believe the “Oh, its no big deal.” BS they’re hearing from those schools.
A year late for Nico, but Kendal Brown - come on down.
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NCAA is done unnatural carnal knowledgeing around...Ok St gets postseason ban
https://twitter.com/PeteThamel/status/1268938741944590336?s=20
....and 3 years of reduced scholarships by 3. 10 year show cause for the coach involved. Coach did the same thing at South Carolina, too. So, whaz up, Gamecocks.
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*Yawn*
Wake me when LSU, Arizona, Kansas, Auburn, etc get hit.
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I know that this is in teal, and that we wouldn't be involved if he became available, but since these sanctions have come in, would he be able to get a release from his LOI if he wanted? Any chance he would just James Wiseman it since he's pretty much a lock for the lottery?
1 - getting a release from whatever an "LOI" is wouldn't help MU since he'd have to be released from his NLI (National Letter of Intent). He just has to request to be released from his NLI.
2 - The G-League will be all over him so I would imagine he'll go that route.
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1 - getting a release from whatever an "LOI" is wouldn't help MU since he'd have to be released from his NLI (National Letter of Intent). He just has to request to be released from his NLI.
2 - The G-League will be all over him so I would imagine he'll go that route.
Different nomenclature. "LOI" was supposed to be "letter of Intent". We're talking about the same thing.
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*Yawn*
Wake me when LSU, Arizona, Kansas, Auburn, etc get hit.
Oklahoma State has historically been a more powerful program than LSU or Auburn.
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*Yawn*
Wake me when LSU, Arizona, Kansas, Auburn, etc get hit.
and then when they get hammered you'll complain that others aren't sanctioned.
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and then when they get hammered you'll complain that others aren't sanctioned.
Nah. I'll love it.
Just read another article with some interesting info -
1. This was the NCAA punishment. The other programs involved in the federal scandal chose to go to the independent tribunal.
2. OK St committed 1 Level 1 violation. Kansas (as an example) committed 5.
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Nah. I'll love it.
Just read another article with some interesting info -
1. This was the NCAA punishment. The other programs involved in the federal scandal chose to go to the independent tribunal.
2. OK St committed 1 Level 1 violation. Kansas (as an example) committed 5.
It also pushes the major conferences a step closer to leaving the NCAA
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It also pushes the major conferences a step closer to leaving the NCAA
The major conferences, including the Big East, have a big voice in setting these rules and punishments. I'd like to hear from university presidents not outrageous fans about the NCAA. I bet you'll hear a much different view.
Any school can leave the NCAA any time they want to.
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The major conferences, including the Big East, have a big voice in setting these rules and punishments. I'd like to hear from university presidents not outrageous fans about the NCAA. I bet you'll hear a much different view.
Any school can leave the NCAA any time they want to.
I think you’d be surprised at what you’d hear.
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The major conferences, including the Big East, have a big voice in setting these rules and punishments. I'd like to hear from university presidents not outrageous fans about the NCAA. I bet you'll hear a much different view.
Any school can leave the NCAA any time they want to.
This is exactly it. If i remember right, the whole reason the new punishment review board aka IARP was formed to begin with was suggestions from Condeeleza Rice's committee, but mostly because I remember Coaches(specifically Mike Brey if I remember right), saying the membership was losing faith and that cheaters needed to be held accountable. The schools/membership ASKED for this.
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I think you’d be surprised at what you’d hear.
Well there is a snarky, non-informative post.
I think you'd be surprised what you'd hear.
Ha! We're even!
(Intellectual discourse at the highest level)
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Well there is a snarky, non-informative post.
I think you'd be surprised what you'd hear.
Ha! We're even!
(Intellectual discourse at the highest level)
There’s more money to be made leaving the NCAA, especially after NIL becomes reality.
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There’s more money to be made leaving the NCAA, especially after NIL becomes reality.
For football maybe since the NCAA doesn't own/have rights to the FBS playoffs. Basketball not so much since they do own the NCAA tournament and have the rights to it.
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For football maybe since the NCAA doesn't own/have rights to the FBS playoffs. Basketball not so much since they do own the NCAA tournament and have the rights to it.
TV would pay top dollar for a new format
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There’s more money to be made leaving the NCAA, especially after NIL becomes reality.
Well the NCAA doesn't get much football money. So no real reason to pull out for football. The P6 could put on a decent basketball tournament but not as good as the NCAA.
Maybe the P6 eliminate nonrevenue sports?
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Well the NCAA doesn't get much football money. So no real reason to pull out for football. The P6 could put on a decent basketball tournament but not as good as the NCAA.
Maybe the P6 eliminate nonrevenue sports?
It’s a pretty fluid landscape but I don’t think there is a lot of love for the NCAA at member schools for a variety of reasons. It does take all the flak for bad publicity and that is something.
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It’s a pretty fluid landscape but I don’t think there is a lot of love for the NCAA at member schools for a variety of reasons. It does take all the flak for bad publicity and that is something.
It takes flak from ignorant fans who don't understand who runs the NCAA.
Maybe the P6 break off but it's not because of penalties. The same yahoo fans who don't like the NCAA will rail against the new governing body.
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It takes flak from ignorant fans who don't understand who runs the NCAA.
Maybe the P6 break off but it's not because of penalties. The same yahoo fans who don't like the NCAA will rail against the new governing body.
If they break off, they’ll almost certainly become what they are, a true minor league to the NFL and NBA and the players will be compensated like they should be
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If they break off, they’ll almost certainly become what they are, a true minor league to the NFL and NBA and the players will be compensated like they should be
I honestly don't know why you even watch College BB/Marquette, if you hate the organization they belong to. That's baffling to me. I mean in reality, you're supporting the NCAA which you absolutely loathe.
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If they break off, they’ll almost certainly become what they are, a true minor league to the NFL and NBA and the players will be compensated like they should be
Could be but then look out for the IRS.
We could become the Golden Eagles sponsored by Marquette University.
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Could be but then look out for the IRS.
We could become the Golden Eagles sponsored by Marquette University.
They’ll get their share, no doubt
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They’ll get their share, no doubt
Who's "they"?
It would be MU until some company pays more.
Plus, schools will start amateur sports immediately.
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Could be but then look out for the IRS.
We could become the Golden Eagles sponsored by Marquette University.
Yes, because if schools break off and start compensating the players, then they have to become employees, which means the schools lose their tax exempt statuses. That will NEVER happen.
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They’ll get their share, no doubt
Oh wait, did you mean the IRS? Do you know how devastating that will be to non-profit institutions? Public and private?
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Yes, because if schools break off and start compensating the players, then they have to become employees, which means the schools lose their tax exempt statuses. That will NEVER happen.
Uhhh... what exactly does that have to do with tax exemption? Not for profits are able to hire people you know.
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Oh wait, did you mean the IRS? Do you know how devastating that will be to non-profit institutions? Public and private?
Why? Non-profits pay employees.
You guys clinging to the current model are in for a rude awakening. It’s over.
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Yes, because if schools break off and start compensating the players, then they have to become employees, which means the schools lose their tax exempt statuses. That will NEVER happen.
You also said NIL would never happen. It’s going to happen.
You said the courts would defeat it. That isn’t going to happen.
The income generators will get paid
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You also said NIL would never happen. It’s going to happen.
You said the courts would defeat it. That isn’t going to happen.
The income generators will get paid
I asked you a question Rico..I'm sure I will just get a single flippant answer which is typical of you, but why do you even watch/follow Marquette/college BB if you absolutely loathe the organization they belong to?? That's in effect supporting the NCAA, which is pretty incredible for something you absolutely despise.
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I asked you a question Rico..I'm sure I will just get a single flippant answer which is typical of you, but why do you even watch/follow Marquette/college BB if you absolutely loathe the organization they belong to?? That's in effect supporting the NCAA, which is pretty incredible for something you absolutely despise.
To support the oppressed student athletes who have been used to fatten the pocketbooks of conferences and their offices.
One day, they will be paid their true worth and it’ll be people like me who helped it happen.
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To support the oppressed student athletes who have been used to fatten the pocketbooks of conferences and their offices.
One day, they will be paid their true worth and it’ll be people like me who helped it happen.
So basically, you have something against rich people, that's how i read it. LOL How egotistical are you?? You will have NOTHING to do with it. Zero. You crying about it on a message board will have ERO influence. I know you think it will, but it won't.
You know what's really ironic?? You continually bitch about(and you're far from the only one) "opressed" student athletes and how unfairly they are treated, yet, ironically we very rarely ever hear one student athlete say a word about it. Hmmm.
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Uhhh... what exactly does that have to do with tax exemption? Not for profits are able to hire people you know.
What will be the difference between the New York Knicks and Marquette University? Why would one be taxed and one not?
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So basically, you have something against rich people, that's how i read it. LOL How egotistical are you?? You will have NOTHING to do with it. Zero. You crying about it on a message board will have ERO influence. I know you think it will, but it won't.
You know what's really ironic?? You continually bitch about(and you're far from the only one) "opressed" student athletes and how unfairly they are treated, yet, ironically we very rarely ever hear one student athlete say a word about it. Hmmm.
I have zero doubt I earn more than you. I just happen to think the money generators deserve their fair share.
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I have zero doubt I earn more than you. I just happen to think the money generators deserve their fair share.
And you think money generators have not received their “fair share”. Not even sure what that means. I have been paid extremely well in my career and while my taxes are high, I don’t have much issue with that. I consider myself and my family extremely fortunate.
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What will be the difference between the New York Knicks and Marquette University? Why would one be taxed and one not?
The Knicks have an owner and operates for the purpose of generating a profit. Marquette University does not have an owner and serves an exempt purpose.
Now the University may have to pay unrelated business tax on the income generated by athletics, but that would be a change in IRS policy.
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The Knicks have an owner and operates for the purpose of generating a profit. Marquette University does not have an owner and serves an exempt purpose.
Now the University may have to pay unrelated business tax on the income generated by athletics, but that would be a change in IRS policy.
My understanding is the organization is either tax exempt or taxed. I could be wrong.
I'm meeting with my CPA on Monday and will ask that question.
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My understanding is the organization is either tax exempt or taxed. I could be wrong.
I'm meeting with my CPA on Monday and will ask that question.
Tax exempt organizations pay taxes on income derived from their non-exempt purposes. "Unrelated Business Income Tax"
https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/unrelated-business-income-tax
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Tax exempt organizations pay taxes on income derived from their non-exempt purposes. "Unrelated Business Income Tax"
https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/unrelated-business-income-tax
That's good info.
That will be be good for the university as a whole, the tax burden on the basketball team will hurt the non-revenue sports. 40% will go to taxes.
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My understanding is the organization is either tax exempt or taxed. I could be wrong.
I'm meeting with my CPA on Monday and will ask that question.
Tax exempt organizations that have unrelated business income file a Form 990-T, which is an income tax return. For Wisconsin they file a Form 4-T.
Sale of advertising is one of the things that is defined as unrelated business. Real estate rental is generally unrelated business income. The big issue is how you allocate costs to unrelated business. The not-for-profit that has an unrelated business wants to allocate as much costs as possible to it, which is what the IRS can challenge.
You can also end up filing a 990-T, if you have limited partnership investments in your IRA. The K-1 form may show an income or loss under line 20 W. This is unrelated business income and is not allowed in an IRA. There is a $1,000 exemption for unrelated business income, so if the combined limited partnership unrelated business income totals a $1,000 or more you need to file a Form 990-T.
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Tax exempt organizations that have unrelated business income file a Form 990-T, which is an income tax return. For Wisconsin they file a Form 4-T.
Sale of advertising is one of the things that is defined as unrelated business. Real estate rental is generally unrelated business income. The big issue is how you allocate costs to unrelated business. The not-for-profit that has an unrelated business wants to allocate as much costs as possible to it, which is what the IRS can challenge.
You can also end up filing a 990-T, if you have limited partnership investments in your IRA. The K-1 form may show an income or loss under line 20 W. This is unrelated business income and is not allowed in an IRA. There is a $1,000 exemption for unrelated business income, so if the combined limited partnership unrelated business income totals a $1,000 or more you need to file a Form 990-T.
You obviously know this. It seems like it will be a huge issue for all schools. I can see an end to most non-revenue sports or higher tuition.
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You obviously know this. It seems like it will be a huge issue for all schools. I can see an end to most non-revenue sports or higher tuition.
Don’t discount the likelihood that Money spent on non-revenue sports would be tax deductible.
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Don’t discount the likelihood that Money spent on non-revenue sports would be tax deductible.
That doesn't make sense based upon bilsu's post but maybe.
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You obviously know this. It seems like it will be a huge issue for all schools. I can see an end to most non-revenue sports or higher tuition.
I think there is a somewhat of a misunderstanding/bad nomenclature when it comes to "non. -revenue" sports. It is all how one does the accounting .
If you go into the D3 or NAIA world, they can't add these sports ( all sports for that matter) fast enough. Their logic is these sports brings in full paying tuition students .
At the D1 level , many of the so called non revenue sports in fact serve the same function. They use the same facilities and bring in lots of student athletes well in excess of the allowable full scholarships. The schools with a long term point of view also look at these student athletes as potential large donors many years down the road.
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I think there is a somewhat of a misunderstanding/bad nomenclature when it comes to "non. -revenue" sports. It is all how one does the accounting .
If you go into the D3 or NAIA world, they can't add these sports ( all sports for that matter) fast enough. Their logic is these sports brings in full paying tuition students .
At the D1 level , many of the so called non revenue sports in fact serve the same function. They use the same facilities and bring in lots of student athletes well in excess of the allowable full scholarships. The schools with a long term point of view also look at these student athletes as potential large donors many years down the road.
And MU ended wrestling because it was attracting so much money.
Football and basketball creates great opportunities for many. If the players need to be compensated, so be it, but the money in college sports will not increase. The money will be taken from somewhere.
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https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/2613425/oklahomas-attorney-general-sent-a-letter-to-mark-emmert-blasting-him-and-the-ncaa-for-being-idiots-on-how-they-punished-oklahoma-state-hoops
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https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/2613425/oklahomas-attorney-general-sent-a-letter-to-mark-emmert-blasting-him-and-the-ncaa-for-being-idiots-on-how-they-punished-oklahoma-state-hoops
I get it, business as usual in the Big 12.
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https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/2613425/oklahomas-attorney-general-sent-a-letter-to-mark-emmert-blasting-him-and-the-ncaa-for-being-idiots-on-how-they-punished-oklahoma-state-hoops
Wah wah wah. Poor Reags. Thank God Barstool Sports is there to give voice to his pain.
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Rather than continuing in the Recruiting Thread, I'm going to try to redirect this conversation:
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=48207.msg1258714#msg1258714
Here's the last post on the topic, regarding Louisville's transgressions (Pitino specifically) not really harming the program:
Why should it?
I'm mixed on this. I have a hard time rationalizing this impacting players and coaches that had nothing to do with the program when Porcini's, the stripper parties, and the Bowen payment happened. But at the same time, what other measure is there but to punish the current program because you can't go back in time?
I guess the issue I see is that if there is no punishment for Louisville's past, there's no disincentive to other programs to keep them from doing the same. Regardless of the merit of the rules (I am in favor of NIL and players being able to profit while in school) the reality is that if a large portion of programs are playing by the rules and meeting accomplishments fairly, they are the ones actually being punished if Louisville and their ilk don't suffer repercussions.
As Galway said, vacated wins mean nothing, it doesn't give those wins back to the programs that lost. Nor do vacated bids get anyone else a place in the NCAA Tournament retroactively nor tourney shares. So rather than Louisville being punished for their actions, other programs are effectively punished by the NCAA's inaction. I think you have to punish the programs involved because the alternative is distributing that punishment to everyone that didn't cheat.
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Fallout is here for Louisville. They just lost their top basketball commit for this year, top 35 forward Bryce Hopkins from Fenwick HS. Hopkins said he’s decommotting due to uncertainty over what sanctions are coming due to the Bowen affair. Louisville appealing again puts resolution off longer, and evidently felt he needed to reopen his recruitment while he would still have good options.
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Louisville is going to get hit hard but probably not as hard as required.
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That's good info.
That will be be good for the university as a whole, the tax burden on the basketball team will hurt the non-revenue sports. 40% will go to taxes.
The tax is only on the profit. Most college sports programs do not make money. Especially, if you remove the donations.
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The tax is only on the profit. Most college sports programs do not make money. Especially, if you remove the donations.
Wait, the media and some on this board claim that schools are making millions and not sharing with the student athletes. How can this be?
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Wait, the media and some on this board claim that schools are making millions and not sharing with the student athletes. How can this be?
They pay it out to coaches. And they spend on non-revenue sports. Administrators make good money too.
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They pay it out to coaches. And they spend on non-revenue sports. Administrators make good money too.
Don’t forget the facilities. The facilities arm race is something else
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They pay it out to coaches. And they spend on non-revenue sports. Administrators make good money too.
Okay, the schools are not making millions of dollars. Got it. I guess I was reading fake news. Not surprising.
The whole problem here is that the media and other people think UCSB and Toledo are Alabama and Notre Dame. That the 10th man on NJIT is the same as Zion Williams.
Men's FB and Basketball generate huge revenue because we follow our teams and they help support great non-revenue athletes who add to our schools and society as a whole.
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The whole problem here is that the media and other people think UCSB and Toledo are Alabama and Notre Dame. That the 10th man on NJIT is the same as Zion Williams.
Ah yes. “The media.”
And I really doubt “the media” believes this anyway.
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The whole problem here is that the media and other people think UCSB and Toledo are Alabama and Notre Dame. That the 10th man on NJIT is the same as Zion Williams.
Narrator: Nobody thinks this.
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Ah yes. “The media.”
And I really doubt “the media” believes this anyway.
You haven't heard that schools are making millions off the 'work' of guys like Zion? Get a clue. I can't believe this is even a debatable point. (Jay Bilas thinks all schools are like Duke)
If the question is to move the revues to the players, I can understand that logic. But it will come with a cost.
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You haven't heard that schools are making millions off the 'work' of guys like Zion? Get a clue. I can't believe this is even a debatable point. (Jay Bilas thinks all schools are like Duke)
If the question is to move the revues to the players, I can understand that logic. But it will come with a cost.
Would Duke have an apparel deal without guys like Zion? Would TV networks pay millions to leagues without marketabale players?
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You haven't heard that schools are making millions off the 'work' of guys like Zion? Get a clue. I can't believe this is even a debatable point. (Jay Bilas thinks all schools are like Duke)
If the question is to move the revues to the players, I can understand that logic. But it will come with a cost.
How does "schools are making millions off the work of guys like Zion" (an indisputable fact, btw) translate in your mind into "the 10th man on NJIT is the same as Zion'?
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How does "schools are making millions off the work of guys like Zion" (an indisputable fact, btw) translate in your mind into "the 10th man on NJIT is the same as Zion'?
Because the "experts" want to change the entire college sports landscape. They believe all schools are Alabama or Duke or Texas and making huge money that they will not give to the players.
The NCAA is not just blue bloods and Zion, 99.9% is everyday students and schools. Should we change tax laws to suit Buffet and Gates?
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Because the "experts" want to change the entire college sports landscape. They believe all schools are Alabama or Duke or Texas and making huge money that they will not give to the players.
The NCAA is not just blue bloods and Zion, 99.9% is everyday students and schools. Should we change tax laws to suit Buffet and Gates?
This really shows your age. Today it's all about Bezos and Zuckerberg.
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Because the "experts" want to change the entire college sports landscape. They believe all schools are Alabama or Duke or Texas and making huge money that they will not give to the players.
The NCAA is not just blue bloods and Zion, 99.9% is everyday students and schools. Should we change tax laws to suit Buffet and Gates?
They don’t have to give it to the players. They can allow players to earn off their names, image and likeness and get money that way
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Because the "experts" want to change the entire college sports landscape. They believe all schools are Alabama or Duke or Texas and making huge money that they will not give to the players.
Once again, nobody serious believes this.
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Because the "experts" want to change the entire college sports landscape. They believe all schools are Alabama or Duke or Texas and making huge money that they will not give to the players.
The NCAA is not just blue bloods and Zion, 99.9% is everyday students and schools. Should we change tax laws to suit Buffet and Gates?
Yeah no one believes this.
And we should change the rules because student athletes should have the ability to earn off this NIL.
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This really shows your age. Today it's all about Bezos and Zuckerberg.
LOL! You're right.
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Once again, nobody serious believes this.
I hope you're right but that is the message in the media. To claim otherwise is ignorance.
Look, I have no problem with students making money but to act like this will not have repercussions is crazy. NIL should tip the balace to MU's favor. Outright payments to players should also help MU. We just need to understand the ramifications of this.
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Would Duke have an apparel deal without guys like Zion? Would TV networks pay millions to leagues without marketabale players?
Yes and yes. Zion didn't make Duke. Lots of players in the Duke program because of the coach and the school's commitment to basketball did. Where would Duke be without Zion?
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Yes and yes. Zion didn't make Duke. Lots of players in the Duke program because of the coach and the school's commitment to basketball did. Where would Duke be without Zion?
Yes. And all those players should have had an opportunity to earn off their name, likeness and image. Coach K agrees
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Yes. And all those players should have had an opportunity to earn off their name, likeness and image. Coach K agrees
And Duke would be the same without Zion.
The point is that revenue to players comes with consequences. Right or wrong. People need to get their head out the sand.
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And Duke would be the same without Zion.
The point is that revenue to players comes with consequences. Right or wrong. People need to get their head out the sand.
Who ever said there wouldn’t be consequences? Coaching salaries will take a hit, non-revenue sports will take a hit, fundamental unfairness will take a hit ...
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Who ever said there wouldn’t be consequences? Coaching salaries will take a hit, non-revenue sports will take a hit, fundamental unfairness will take a hit ...
People don't talk about the consequences, that's the problem. They only focus on the 1%. What's fair for men's basketball and football has an effect on women's sports. As a father of girls, I think about these things.
But, hey colleges are making millions so who cares.
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People don't talk about the consequences, that's the problem. They only focus on the 1%. What's fair for men's basketball and football has an effect on women's sports. As a father of girls, I think about these things.
But, hey colleges are making millions so who cares.
The irony is that you said "People don't talk about the consequences" in response to a Scooper who specifically talked about the consequences. And if you looked at more than headlines from articles appearing on the evil "media," you'd see that consequences are routinely discussed.
Otherwise, you still aren't getting that what the evil "media" and most others, are talking about are athletes benefiting from their own names, images and likenesses, not receiving salaries. You might not believe there is a difference, but there is.
I am far too lazy to look it up, but there was a study recently that said many (if not most) of the "top value" college athletes in terms of expected NIL $$$$ would be female gymnasts, volleyball players, etc.
As a father of girls, you should be thrilled about that.
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The irony is that you said "People don't talk about the consequences" in response to a Scooper who specifically talked about the consequences. And if you looked at more than headlines from articles appearing on the evil "media," you'd see that consequences are routinely discussed.
Otherwise, you still aren't getting that what the evil "media" and most others, are talking about are athletes benefiting from their own names, images and likenesses, not receiving salaries. You might not believe there is a difference, but there is.
I am far too lazy to look it up, but there was a study recently that said many (if not most) of the "top value" college athletes in terms of expected NIL $$$$ would be female gymnasts, volleyball players, etc.
As a father of girls, you should be thrilled about that.
Fair enough. Dawson did state the consequences but my statement was about the general sentiment coming from the media. And for the record , I've never referred the the mediia as 'evil'.
As I've stated before, NIL should be a good thing for a school like MU. This will favor larger schools with a strong athletic departments.
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People don't talk about the consequences, that's the problem. They only focus on the 1%. What's fair for men's basketball and football has an effect on women's sports. As a father of girls, I think about these things.
But, hey colleges are making millions so who cares.
I think you miss the point that many colleges actually are making millions. Marquette is making millions. That doesn't mean it's all profit, but the coaching staff collectively makes more than $2M/year. The rent at the Fiserv, the renovation of the locker rooms, the new weight room, those things are not free.
Just because the schools also have expenses doesn't mean the millions aren't coming in. I would guess every high major is pulling in 7 figures in revenue, especially when you factor TV deals. Yes, much of that also goes out to grow the brands, pay the staffs, and keep up in the college sports arms race, but the money is there, the millions are being made. Any assertion otherwise is simply not true.
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I think you miss the point that many colleges actually are making millions. Marquette is making millions. That doesn't mean it's all profit, but the coaching staff collectively makes more than $2M/year. The rent at the Fiserv, the renovation of the locker rooms, the new weight room, those things are not free.
Just because the schools also have expenses doesn't mean the millions aren't coming in. I would guess every high major is pulling in 7 figures in revenue, especially when you factor TV deals. Yes, much of that also goes out to grow the brands, pay the staffs, and keep up in the college sports arms race, but the money is there, the millions are being made. Any assertion otherwise is simply not true.
That’s a good point. There’s been a lot of sportswriters using comments about a cancellation meaning missing out on $80-$120 Million as a gotcha to pay players. Don’t get me wrong, they should be compensated for NIL in my opinion, but people are treating that number as profit. Where I think it’s just revenue. However, that doesn’t make as good of a headline or hot take.
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That’s a good point. There’s been a lot of sportswriters using comments about a cancellation meaning missing out on $80-$120 Million as a gotcha to pay players. Don’t get me wrong, they should be compensated for NIL in my opinion, but people are treating that number as profit. Where I think it’s just revenue. However, that doesn’t make as good of a headline or hot take.
I actually don't think people are treating that number as profit. They are saying that since athletics are responsible for so much revenue, the players should have compensation than just a scholarship.
I realize there isn't profit, but if you look around at the facilities, coaches salaries, administration, etc., you can see why. Everyone gets to partake in the party except the players at some of these places. They have to go to class, stay out of trouble, play games during a pandemic....and get a scholarship for it.
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I think this has been discussed before but “millions” sounds good but that is today’s cost of doing business. In the 80s that would have been less than 5 million for the top .01 percent of athletic departments and hundreds of thousands for the rest of the schools (these days less than 20 regular students paying tuition would equal a profitable athletic department in the 80s)
It’s all about profits and losses. Don’t be fooled by “millions of dollars”.
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I think you miss the point that many colleges actually are making millions. Marquette is making millions. That doesn't mean it's all profit, but the coaching staff collectively makes more than $2M/year. The rent at the Fiserv, the renovation of the locker rooms, the new weight room, those things are not free.
Just because the schools also have expenses doesn't mean the millions aren't coming in. I would guess every high major is pulling in 7 figures in revenue, especially when you factor TV deals. Yes, much of that also goes out to grow the brands, pay the staffs, and keep up in the college sports arms race, but the money is there, the millions are being made. Any assertion otherwise is simply not true.
I 100% agree.
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I actually don't think people are treating that number as profit. They are saying that since athletics are responsible for so much revenue, the players should have compensation than just a scholarship.
I realize there isn't profit, but if you look around at the facilities, coaches salaries, administration, etc., you can see why. Everyone gets to partake in the party except the players at some of these places. They have to go to class, stay out of trouble, play games during a pandemic....and get a scholarship for it.
A scholarship (and all that goes with it) is a “payment”. Is it enough of a payment? I don’t know, my gut says no - but I do know that asking the coaches and administrators to share some of their dough with the players will be met with resistance from (guess who?) the coaches and administrators.
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Looks like the NCAA is finally getting around to doing something about Coach Strong A-- Offer.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/29745009/ncaa-lsu-coach-wade-part-impermissible-payments-potential-recruits-others?linkId=98149375
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Looks like the NCAA is finally getting around to doing something about Coach Strong A-- Offer.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/29745009/ncaa-lsu-coach-wade-part-impermissible-payments-potential-recruits-others?linkId=98149375
How long do these ‘investigations’ take? Where the BE is concerned, isn’t Creighton under the microscope?
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How long do these ‘investigations’ take? Where the BE is concerned, isn’t Creighton under the microscope?
So was Depaul from what I recall but they only offered and fired the coach who did it.
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Lol. What a joke.
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So was Depaul from what I recall but they only offered and fired the coach who did it.
My recollection is that an assistant (associate head?) coach arranged for someone to move in with a player to make sure that the player did work or studied for an exam that the player had to pass to become eligible. And the player had little impact on the DePaul program before leaving.
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I actually don't think people are treating that number as profit. They are saying that since athletics are responsible for so much revenue, the players should have compensation than just a scholarship.
I realize there isn't profit, but if you look around at the facilities, coaches salaries, administration, etc., you can see why. Everyone gets to partake in the party except the players at some of these places. They have to go to class, stay out of trouble, play games during a pandemic....and get a scholarship for it.
It's actually quite possible that athletic departments won't be affected at all. With some players getting paid under the table 100k or more just to commit, maybe all that will happen is that the booster pay to prospective student-athletes simply goes legit. Instead of all the skullduggery, schools will develop pools of well heeled boosters who will fund up front legitimate payments to recruits. My objection to the current system as always been more the NCAA prohibiting outside payments to players because they don't like how that would affect recruiting.
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That's good info.
That will be be good for the university as a whole, the tax burden on the basketball team will hurt the non-revenue sports. 40% will go to taxes.
The real tax issue is why college athletic scholarships are not taxed.
Basketball scholarships are barter transactions, pure and simple. In IRS Topic Number 420, it says, "Bartering is the exchange of goods or services. Usually there's no exchange of cash."
Topic 420 goes on to say: "You must include in gross income in the year of receipt the fair market value of goods or services received from bartering."
You interpret this literally and there's no way a college athletic scholarship is not taxable income. The only left to do is determine the fair market value of a Marquette scholarship and the players to file quarterly withholding!
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The real tax issue is why college athletic scholarships are not taxed.
Basketball scholarships are barter transactions, pure and simple. In IRS Topic Number 420, it says, "Bartering is the exchange of goods or services. Usually there's no exchange of cash."
Topic 420 goes on to say: "You must include in gross income in the year of receipt the fair market value of goods or services received from bartering."
You interpret this literally and there's no way a college athletic scholarship is not taxable income. The only left to do is determine the fair market value of a Marquette scholarship and the players to file quarterly withholding!
Portions of athletic scholarships are taxable - room and board for instance.
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The real tax issue is why college athletic scholarships are not taxed.
Basketball scholarships are barter transactions, pure and simple. In IRS Topic Number 420, it says, "Bartering is the exchange of goods or services. Usually there's no exchange of cash."
Topic 420 goes on to say: "You must include in gross income in the year of receipt the fair market value of goods or services received from bartering."
You interpret this literally and there's no way a college athletic scholarship is not taxable income. The only left to do is determine the fair market value of a Marquette scholarship and the players to file quarterly withholding!
This is an interesting take. I think, barring some little known IRS rule, you may have a good point. Not my area of expertise but we maybe opening a whole new can of worms.
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This is an interesting take. I think, barring some little known IRS rule, you may have a good point. Not my area of expertise but we maybe opening a whole new can of worms.
Can you see the University of Alabama if suddenly about 80 football players have to pay taxes on their scholarship? I think Alabama would secede from the union all over again!
Ditto for Louisiana, Georgia, Mississippi, Texas and Tennessee.
Actually, I'm sure there is some little-known tax exemption for it. Probably plugged in by a Congressman from Tuscaloosa and a Senator from the "Great" State of Alabama.
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Can you see the University of Alabama if suddenly about 80 football players have to pay taxes on their scholarship? I think Alabama would secede from the union all over again!
Ditto for Louisiana, Georgia, Mississippi, Texas and Tennessee.
Actually, I'm sure there is some little-known tax exemption for it. Probably plugged in by a Congressman from Tuscaloosa and a Senator from the "Great" State of Alabama.
Funny and true. Ohio might join also. :D
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The real tax issue is why college athletic scholarships are not taxed.
Basketball scholarships are barter transactions, pure and simple. In IRS Topic Number 420, it says, "Bartering is the exchange of goods or services. Usually there's no exchange of cash."
Topic 420 goes on to say: "You must include in gross income in the year of receipt the fair market value of goods or services received from bartering."
You interpret this literally and there's no way a college athletic scholarship is not taxable income. The only left to do is determine the fair market value of a Marquette scholarship and the players to file quarterly withholding!
Why would an athletic scholarship be any more taxable than an academic or need-based scholarship?
Regardless, tax law is pretty clear. As Fluffy notes, scholarship money used for room and board is taxable. Scholarship money used for tuition, books and other academic costs is not.
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Why would an athletic scholarship be any more taxable than an academic or need-based scholarship?
Regardless, tax law is pretty clear. As Fluffy notes, scholarship money used for room and board is taxable. Scholarship money used for tuition, books and other academic costs is not.
I'm sure there is a private letter ruling somewhere supporting you.
But the argument I make is that an athletic scholarship is different than, say a needs scholarship or an academic scholarship. Here, the university is expecting performance -- basketball playing -- in return for compensation. The same would hold for a band scholarship or a theater scholarship.
If the student stops playing basketball, the university can and usually does terminate the contract (scholarship) at the end of the semester. The raw definition of barter fits here.
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I'm sure there is a private letter ruling somewhere supporting you.
But the argument I make is that an athletic scholarship is different than, say a needs scholarship or an academic scholarship. Here, the university is expecting performance -- basketball playing -- in return for compensation. The same would hold for a band scholarship or a theater scholarship.
If the student stops playing basketball, the university can and usually does terminate the contract (scholarship) at the end of the semester. The raw definition of barter fits here.
This an interesting topic. As a father with a daughter on a significant academic scholarship I never thought about it. Shame on me. I can't even lend my own companies money interest free per the IRS. I'm not complaining but it is a unique situation.
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I'm sure there is a private letter ruling somewhere supporting you.
But the argument I make is that an athletic scholarship is different than, say a needs scholarship or an academic scholarship. Here, the university is expecting performance -- basketball playing -- in return for compensation. The same would hold for a band scholarship or a theater scholarship.
If the student stops playing basketball, the university can and usually does terminate the contract (scholarship) at the end of the semester. The raw definition of barter fits here.
Here's the IRS on scholarships.
https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc421
Academic and need-based scholarships typically include performance requirements as well, such as maintaining a GPA above a certain level, taking a minimum course-load, working on campus, etc.
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Here's the IRS on scholarships.
https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc421
Academic and need-based scholarships typically include performance requirements as well, such as maintaining a GPA above a certain level, taking a minimum course-load, working on campus, etc.
Great info. Thank you. My daughter has a minimum GPA to continue receiving money. So far so good. Whew!
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Here's the IRS on scholarships.
https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc421
Academic and need-based scholarships typically include performance requirements as well, such as maintaining a GPA above a certain level, taking a minimum course-load, working on campus, etc.
Thank God, no need for me to stay awake nights worrying about that 1/4 scholarship I got from the Marquette Tribune for selling ads even though I clearly provided services.
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Notice of allegations reportedly arriving at Arizona today.
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Notice of allegations reportedly arriving at Arizona today.
Is it summer already?
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Notice of allegations reportedly arriving at Arizona today.
Can we have it CC'd to DaRon Holmes?
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Can we have it CC'd to DaRon Holmes?
I'm sure Wojo already forwarded this article to him:
https://www.si.com/college/2020/10/22/arizona-basketball-corruption-ncaa-notice-of-allegations
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@BrucePascoe: Arizona acknowledges it has received a Notice of Allegations from the NCAA but says it won't release it "in order to protect the integrity of the ongoing enforcement process."
Someone file a FOIA request.
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@BrucePascoe: Arizona acknowledges it has received a Notice of Allegations from the NCAA but says it won't release it "in order to protect the integrity of the ongoing enforcement process."
Someone file a FOIA request.
Thank You. Jeff Borzello ESPN Staff Writer has an article on the Website today at 3:11CT “Arizona receives NCAA’s notice of allegations on men’’s basketball team”
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Well at least UMass tennis is taken down for a $252 impermissible payment.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/10/23/sports/ncaa-again-shows-its-pettiness-by-punishing-umass-tennis-team-252-violation/
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Arizona charged with nine violations, five Level One.
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Arizona charged with nine violations, five Level One.
The consequences that Northern Arizona will suffer will be unimaginable in modern sports history
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The consequences that Northern Arizona will suffer will be unimaginable in modern sports history
yeah, because big schools never get hit with violations.
Keep repeating a line coined by the dirtiest coach in NCAA history as if it's factual.
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https://sports.yahoo.com/amphtml/ncaa-giving-coaches-42-million-reasons-to-cheat-032253015.html?__twitter_impression=true
"Consider just how much Miller, Kansas’ Bill Self, Auburn’s Bruce Pearl, LSU’s Will Wade and Cal State-Northridge’s Mark Gottfried have prospered coaching through this. Over the three years since the scandal broke, those five coaches have collectively made more than $42 million.
Leading a cheating program in college basketball doesn’t just allow you to prosper, you can actually fill swimming pools with your money and cannonball into it. Sure, they’ve endured a few cold looks on the recruiting trail, and Miller has made comic art of avoiding questions about the investigation in the media. But in reality, he should be laughing at the coaches who didn’t have an assistant arrested by the feds, as this whole ordeal has taught any coaches who operated by the book that they were painfully naïve for doing so."
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The Board at Arizona has agreed to not pursue action against Sean Miller
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Rick Pitino is coaching college basketball again.
The NCAA really showed him!
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The Board at Arizona has agreed to not pursue action against Sean Miller
Not surprised but it's a bit ironic the AZ alumni i know don't like the results on the court and want him gone.
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yeah, because big schools never get hit with violations.
Keep repeating a line coined by the dirtiest coach in NCAA history as if it's factual.
This was a joke....
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The Board at Arizona has agreed to not pursue action against Sean Miller
they can't right now as they'd be on the hook for the entire contract. If found guilty of the violations then they can get out of the contract.
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they can't right now as they'd be on the hook for the entire contract. If found guilty of the violations then they can get out of the contract.
Are you sure about this? This was two or three years ago but I seem to recall reading about something wonky with Miller's contract that he would actually be owed more money if he was fired for cause than if he was fired for any other reason.
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Rick Pitino is coaching college basketball again.
The NCAA really showed him!
Pitino did a nice job with his first Iona recruiting class. Outlook is good for the Gaels.
https://nypost.com/2020/04/18/rick-pitinos-iona-recruiting-showing-he-hasnt-lost-his-touch/
Has a good start on 2021
https://www.kentucky.com/sports/high-school/prep-basketball/article244658272.html
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Pitino did a nice job with his first Iona recruiting class. Outlook is good for the Gaels.
https://nypost.com/2020/04/18/rick-pitinos-iona-recruiting-showing-he-hasnt-lost-his-touch/
Has a good start on 2021
https://www.kentucky.com/sports/high-school/prep-basketball/article244658272.html
Cheaters always win
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Will Arizona's punishment be more or less severe than the UMASS women's tennis team's for self reporting reimbursing a player for a $252.00 phone jack in her room? One that she was charged for even though she didn't know it was in her room, so the school reimbursed her for it.
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Ncaa coming down HARD on UMASS tennis....
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/2020/10/23/sports/ncaa-again-shows-its-pettiness-by-punishing-umass-tennis-team-252-violation/%3foutputType=amp
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Auburn self-imposing one-year tournament ban.
And if they're self-imposing that, they must be pretty worried about what the NCAA has on them.
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Auburn self-imposing one-year tournament ban.
And if they're self-imposing that, they must be pretty worried about what the NCAA has on them.
Or they’re getting ahead of an incompetent organization knowing full well they most likely wouldn’t make a tournament this season anyways (if it even happens.
I believe the expression is “chess vs. checkers.”
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You think self-imposing a post season ban is a sign they're playing "chess?" Lol.
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You think self-imposing a post season ban is a sign they're playing "chess?" Lol.
Zero percent chance the NCAA comes after them now. So in the scheme of the NCAA’s low level thought process, yes I do believe they’re playing chess.
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Zero percent chance the NCAA comes after them now. So in the scheme of the NCAA’s low level thought process, yes I do believe they’re playing chess.
Gonna 📌 this for later.
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Zero percent chance the NCAA comes after them now. So in the scheme of the NCAA’s low level thought process, yes I do believe they’re playing chess.
If the NCAA doesn't give them anything else, it's because that's all the NCAA feels they deserved. The NCAA is a bureaucratic nightmare, but they're not THAT dumb.
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Gonna 📌 this for later.
Feel free. Maybe in eight years the ncaa will come back and take away some wins from Auburn...
Or take away a scholarship. How will they ever recover?!
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If the NCAA doesn't give them anything else, it's because that's all the NCAA feels they deserved. The NCAA is a bureaucratic nightmare, but they're not THAT dumb.
I used to believe that about the ncaa too...
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Feel free. Maybe in eight years the ncaa will come back and take away some wins from Auburn...
Or take away a scholarship. How will they ever recover?!
Little early to be walking it back, isn't it?
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Little early to be walking it back, isn't it?
I wouldn’t consider either of those punishments, so I also wouldn’t consider that walking back on my statements.
Go ahead and pin that...
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I don't know if its chess or not but the idea of self-imposing a postseason ban in a year that might not have a postseason (and even it does, Auburn is going to suck anyway) is hilarious to me. I mean, it doesn't even impact recruiting. Its too late for their current players to transfer and the ban will be over before next years freshmen are on campus.
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https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/3113857/more-good-news-for-auburn-the-highest-recruit-in-school-history-isnt-practicing-and-might-leave-the-team-to-play-overseas-because-of-an-ncaa-investigation
If the NCAA takes Auburn's self-punishment into account at all when deciding on their own punishments, it's a freaking joke. The NCAA tourney may not even be played this season and if it is, that team is gonna stink so much they likely won't qualify anyway.
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https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/30619929/arizona-self-imposes-one-year-postseason-ban-men-basketball-team
*Insert eyeroll emoji*
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When does Creighton get theirs?
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https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/30619929/arizona-self-imposes-one-year-postseason-ban-men-basketball-team
*Insert eyeroll emoji*
NCAA won’t do anything, so the school themself might as well.
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NCAA won’t do anything, so the school themself might as well.
Arizona trying to ward off the committee. It won’t work.
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Bump.
What happened to all this?
Weren't punishments supposed to be given to Miller/AZ, Wade/LSU, Self/KS, etc by now?
Did I miss something?
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The public schools announced them, LSU, Arizona, Kansas, Ok St... Private schools don't have to like Crieghton.
They each get brought to the IRP. Everything remains confidential until the end of their processes.
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The public schools announced them, LSU, Arizona, Kansas, Ok St... Private schools don't have to like Crieghton.
They each get brought to the IRP. Everything remains confidential until the end of their processes.
Source?
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What is Creighton being investigated for?
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What is Creighton being investigated for?
They were tied to the shoe scandals. One of their assistants took a bribe on camera.
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Source?
Just how the process works.
Here is
Arizona https://www.si.com/college/2021/03/06/arizona-basketball-sean-miller-ncaa-violations-level-1-charges#:~:text=The%20NCAA%20has%20levied%20five,against%20head%20coach%20Sean%20Miller.
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The public schools announced them, LSU, Arizona, Kansas, Ok St... Private schools don't have to like Crieghton.
They each get brought to the IRP. Everything remains confidential until the end of their processes.
You’re right. Private schools don’t have to like Creighton! 😂
That said, while I don’t thank them for their sneaker shadiness, I thank them for living up to their BigEast entrance/admission with flying colors.
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Just how the process works.
Here is
Arizona https://www.si.com/college/2021/03/06/arizona-basketball-sean-miller-ncaa-violations-level-1-charges#:~:text=The%20NCAA%20has%20levied%20five,against%20head%20coach%20Sean%20Miller.
Ah. I asked for punishments.
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$ Bill given a lifetime contract.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/31183214/kansas-jayhawks-sign-bill-self-life-contract%3fplatform=amp
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$ Bill given a lifetime contract.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/31183214/kansas-jayhawks-sign-bill-self-life-contract%3fplatform=amp
Lol.
Cheaters never prosper
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https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/3356940/kansas-continues-to-not-give-a-unnatural carnal knowledge-about-the-ncaa-investigation-signs-bill-self-to-a-lifetime-contract
Tweet embedded in the story with contract details
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https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/31263182/usc-given-probation-fined-assistant-coach-violations-avoids-postseason-ban (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/31263182/usc-given-probation-fined-assistant-coach-violations-avoids-postseason-ban)
(https://mymmanews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/HeFQid7LQXgcb94xYvs5phWX56a2v8sSE5pbW.jpg)
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https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/31263182/usc-given-probation-fined-assistant-coach-violations-avoids-postseason-ban (https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/31263182/usc-given-probation-fined-assistant-coach-violations-avoids-postseason-ban)
(https://mymmanews.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/HeFQid7LQXgcb94xYvs5phWX56a2v8sSE5pbW.jpg)
Chef’s kisses
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The cartel keeps the hits coming by rewarding the frontman.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/ncaa-shame-embarrassment-extending-mark-emmerts-contract-054109598.html
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When does Creighton get theirs?
They'll get Double Secret Probation two years after the NCAA slaps a post-season ban and scholarship limitations on the University of Nebraska-Omaha.
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They'll get Double Secret Probation two years after the NCAA slaps a post-season ban and scholarship limitations on the University of Nebraska-Omaha.
I’d still be nervous that they’d beat us again.
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Once a cheat, always a cheat ...
Mark Gottfried, the former N.C. State basketball coach, was placed on leave at Cal State Northridge, where he’s been the head coach since 2018.
Cal State Northridge issued a statement on Thursday saying its men’s basketball coaching staff has been placed on paid administrative leave while the school investigates potential rules violations within the men’s basketball program.
In a statement, CSUN athletic director Michael Izzi said the school could not “elaborate further about the nature of the potential violations while the review is underway.”
Gottfried coached the Wolfpack for six seasons before being fired in 2017. He took over at CSUN in 2018 and has a 37-51 record there.
N.C. State was one of several high-profile college basketball programs tied to the FBI’s investigation into pay-to-play schemes involving Adidas, college coaches and recruits.
The investigation centered around the recruitment of former N.C. State guard Dennis Smith, Jr. and one of Gottfried’s top assistants, Orlando Early. Former Adidas consultant Thomas Gassnola testified in federal court that he worked with Early, an assistant under Gottfried from 2011 to 2017, and Smith’s trainer Shawn Farmer, to funnel $40,000 to Smith’s family in exchange for Smith’s commitment in October 2015. N.C. State is an Adidas school.
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Squirmy...
https://www.yahoo.com/news/documents-allege-adidas-paid-ex-011502903.html
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He didn’t go to an Adidas school, nor did he sign with Adidas. Talk about a horrible investment.
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He didn’t go to an Adidas school, nor did he sign with Adidas. Talk about a horrible investment.
meh, it was only $5K, that slips between the cushions daily at Adidas
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meh, it was only $5K, that slips between the cushions daily at Adidas
Also probably for what Zion was receiving elsewhere.
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Also probably for what Zion was receiving elsewhere.
Duke did their own internal investigation with the Nike side and found nothing. Poof. ::)
Is it summer yet?
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The cartel keeps the hits coming by rewarding the frontman.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/ncaa-shame-embarrassment-extending-mark-emmerts-contract-054109598.html
Really a stunning article. Stunning, but not unexpected. Rich white guys participating in a circle jerk.
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https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1407309971277090823
Any rumors on how hard they come down?
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https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1407309971277090823
Any rumors on how hard they come down?
Probably as hard as all those schools involved in the FBI probe
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https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1407309971277090823
Any rumors on how hard they come down?
But I thought Creighton didn't cheat and we only said that because we were losers making up excuses
btw, I embrace Creighton being dirty, we need villians.
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But I thought Creighton didn't cheat and we only said that because we were losers making up excuses
btw, I embrace Creighton being dirty, we need villians.
Teal not necessary. That's a real thing here.
They're facing NCAA infractions after an assistant coach resigned because he was on FBI wires talking about paying recruits, basically anyone who was eligible to return to the team left after their coach made racist remarks in the locker room, yet they're signing a top class in the country to Omaha, NE. But (even though there are FBI wires proving otherwise) they do not cheat.
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https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1407353669473947660
Seems fairly tame. Not that the hammer has exactly been brought down on anybody.
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https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1407353669473947660
Seems fairly tame. Not that the hammer has exactly been brought down on anybody.
Was hoping for a March 2019 forfeit and a Big East Regular season championship.
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Well, the NCAA once again shows there is no place for cheating. It’s doubtful Creighton will be able to overcome such penalties. Let this be a lesson to all other universities, the NCAA doesn’t tolerate cheaters and remains true to making sure student athletes are students first.
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Maybe we were on double secret probation all along and that's why Wojo never used all his scholarships. Maybe the other shoe DID drop.
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Maybe we were on double secret probation all along and that's why Wojo never used all his scholarships. Maybe the other shoe DID drop.
Well, MU did advocate for Creighton joining the league.
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https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1407353669473947660
Seems fairly tame. Not that the hammer has exactly been brought down on anybody.
my wife was teammates with Murphy on an international team they were both on back in high school. He was a prick to everyone. Nice to see him get hit.
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my wife was teammates with Murphy on an international team they were both on back in high school. He was a prick to everyone. Nice to see him get hit.
??? Co-ed international under 18 sports? Track and Field?
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??? Co-ed international under 18 sports? Track and Field?
He was on hoops, she made the swim team. I think it was called the Can-Am Games or something like that.
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TCU gets a Creighton-like hand slap.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/7798535002
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Oklahoma State put off it's NCAA tournament ban for a year by appealing. Will that play into Dawson's decision process?
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Oklahoma State put off it's NCAA tournament ban for a year by appealing. Will that play into Dawson's decision process?
Is Dawson considering OK State?
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Is Dawson considering OK State?
I saw them mentioned by 247 sports, also in writeups for Oklahoma State, Texas and Illinois fan boards. Oh, and Jeff Borzello on Twitter.
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https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/32003986/ncaa-not-punishing-baylor-sexual-assault-allegations
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https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/32003986/ncaa-not-punishing-baylor-sexual-assault-allegations
Lawyers got paid, though
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https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/32003986/ncaa-not-punishing-baylor-sexual-assault-allegations
I told my daughters I would pay for them to go to any school in the country, except Baylor (and MSU).
Sexual assaults can happen on any campus but those two institutions lack of response and even demonizing the victims is gross, immoral and inexcusable.
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https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/ncaa-puts-texas-a-m-on-probation-suspends-coach-buzz-williams-for-two-games-for-multiple-rules-violations/
Squirmy
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https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/ncaa-puts-texas-a-m-on-probation-suspends-coach-buzz-williams-for-two-games-for-multiple-rules-violations/
Squirmy
Will he blame the AD and school or take any responsibility?
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Will he blame the AD and school or take any responsibility?
He threw an assistant under the bus…again.
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What Buzz did was a misdemeanor compared to North Carolina's phantom classes. But Buzz gets whacked hard, sent to the corner and ordered to wear a dunce cap while North Carolina receives a Get out of Jail Free card.
No wonder most rationale people think of the NCAA as a bull*hit organization.
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What Buzz did was a misdemeanor compared to North Carolina's phantom classes. But Buzz gets whacked hard, sent to the corner and ordered to wear a dunce cap while North Carolina receives a Get out of Jail Free card.
No wonder most rationale people think of the NCAA as a bull*hit organization.
He got whacked hard? A two game suspension? Pretty much escaped all blame while his assistant got the axe.
This time a coach who had been connected to Buzz for 15 years. Since his days at UNO.
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Really bad look for Buzz.
He doesn't seem to mind messing with others' "happy."
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He got whacked hard? A two game suspension? Pretty much escaped all blame while his assistant got the axe.
This time a coach who had been connected to Buzz for 15 years. Since his days at UNO.
Who was the assistant? Jamie McNeilly? Didn't he recently leave for Minnesota?
And you wonder if the TeamCoachBuzz wheels will eventually come off. He's gone through a massive roster overhaul, which seems to be pretty standard these days, but guys with his type of personality don't tend to soften with age or change their ways.
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Who was the assistant? Jamie McNeilly? Didn't he recently leave for Minnesota?
And you wonder if the TeamCoachBuzz wheels will eventually come off. He's gone through a massive roster overhaul, which seems to be pretty standard these days, but guys with his type of personality don't tend to soften with age or change their ways.
Mc Neilly is at TCU but yeah he’s the guy that got tossed.
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https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/ncaa-puts-texas-a-m-on-probation-suspends-coach-buzz-williams-for-two-games-for-multiple-rules-violations/
Squirmy
Good. We're damn lucky a similar fate didn't befall us. He's a shyster through and through.
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Who was the assistant? Jamie McNeilly? Didn't he recently leave for Minnesota?
And you wonder if the TeamCoachBuzz wheels will eventually come off. He's gone through a massive roster overhaul, which seems to be pretty standard these days, but guys with his type of personality don't tend to soften with age or change their ways.
Yep. It will be interesting to see if he rebounds (no pun intended) somewhere else if he leaves TAMU either by his choice or (more likely) theirs.
Edit: Imagine Buzz getting replaced by Wojo. Won't happen but its fun to picture it.
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What Buzz did was a misdemeanor compared to North Carolina's phantom classes. But Buzz gets whacked hard, sent to the corner and ordered to wear a dunce cap while North Carolina receives a Get out of Jail Free card.
No wonder most rationale people think of the NCAA as a bull*hit organization.
Buzz is a phony, a dirtbag. Time for some Buzz’s Kids profiles
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Buzz is a phony, a dirtbag. Time for some Buzz’s Kids profiles
I believe he’s referred to as the downhome lonesome cowboy in these parts.
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Well, this explains the separation between Buzz and McNeilly, who have been inseparable for fifteen years. With Jamie's recruiting connections, it was surprising to see him downgrade to a program like TCU (I seem to recall he was close to getting hired at Minnesota, but maybe this is what stopped that).
Buzz does best when he has a legitimate, or perceived, chip on his shoulder. It will be easy for him to sell his audience (and himself) of others expecting him to fail. I do wonder, given the first two years, if fails to meet expectations at A&M. He has at least two more years before a change is considered IMO.
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Well, this explains the separation between Buzz and McNeilly, who have been inseparable for fifteen years. With Jamie's recruiting connections, it was surprising to see him downgrade to a program like TCU (I seem to recall he was close to getting hired at Minnesota, but maybe this is what stopped that).
Buzz does best when he has a legitimate, or perceived, chip on his shoulder. It will be easy for him to sell his audience (and himself) of others expecting him to fail. I do wonder, given the first two years, if fails to meet expectations at A&M. He has at least two more years before a change is considered IMO.
I would have bet on Buzz at A&M, but he seems at a crossroads there right now. I think the seat starts getting warm after this year if there isn’t significant improvement, and definitely agree in two years it will be. This will be interesting.
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As was said when Bazz took the TAMU job, the poster TAMU’s job became much more interesting/busy.
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Well, this explains the separation between Buzz and McNeilly, who have been inseparable for fifteen years. With Jamie's recruiting connections, it was surprising to see him downgrade to a program like TCU (I seem to recall he was close to getting hired at Minnesota, but maybe this is what stopped that).
The report didn’t say who the players/recruits in question were, but I suspect the numerous off-season workouts, etc. may have been with Cashius McNeilly, who is Jamie’s nephew (and followed him to TCU). Probably a case where family ties, especially during a pandemic, didn’t mesh well with NCAA regulations.
Either way, it seems A&M fans are getting restless- this isn’t VT, where all he had to do was not be the absolute worst. They’re going to compare him to Beard, and that’s tough to live up to. I also think there’s enough Googleable info out there that his schtick won’t fly with players as well as it used to, so I could see him being particularly rocked by transfers every year.
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If there was one person on A&M's campus that was probably excited about Texas coming to the SEC, it is Buzz. Now he spin the underdog narrative to a whole new level (despite A&M having some of best resources in the SEC).
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Buzz is a phony, a dirtbag. Time for some Buzz’s Kids profiles
…you givin’ back that Sweet 16, Sweet 16, Elite 8 run?
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Either way, it seems A&M fans are getting restless- this isn’t VT, where all he had to do was not be the absolute worst. They’re going to compare him to Beard, and that’s tough to live up to. I also think there’s enough Googleable info out there that his schtick won’t fly with players as well as it used to, so I could see him being particularly rocked by transfers every year.
I think it's amusing you think A&M has a passionate basketball following. Pretty much all he needs to do is stay out of the papers and pray that the football team continues to miss the playoffs so that all of the Boosters/alumni/students ire is focused on Jimbo.
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…you givin’ back that Sweet 16, Sweet 16, Elite 8 run?
Sure. I didn’t watch any of the last two runs.
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I think it's amusing you think A&M has a passionate basketball following. Pretty much all he needs to do is stay out of the papers and pray that the football team continues to miss the playoffs so that all of the Boosters/alumni/students ire is focused on Jimbo.
This is much of the case across the SEC. Three kids from a family we know who attend Alabama could not tell me the name of their basketball coach.
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The Auburn investigation is complete after 4 years of thorough analysis and investigation.
https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/3397677/baby-steps-it-only-took-four-years-for-the-ncaa-to-investigate-auburn-basketball-and-completely-embarrass-itself
The NCAA is a f*cking joke.
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https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33602300/memphis-men-basketball-team-facing-multiple-ncaa-violations
If this ends up similar to Arizona, LSU, etc, Memphis will be fine.
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https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33602300/memphis-men-basketball-team-facing-multiple-ncaa-violations
If this ends up similar to Arizona, LSU, etc, Memphis will be fine.
Minus penny and Wade. Miller had a scape goat in his assistant.
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https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33602300/memphis-men-basketball-team-facing-multiple-ncaa-violations
If this ends up similar to Arizona, LSU, etc, Memphis will be fine.
If you ain't cheat'n, you ain't try'n!
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Not to pile on Memphis, but honestly what did they think was going to happen hiring a head coach with zero NCAA coaching experience, that had "strong" AAU connections, that sought one-and-done players and also hired Larry Brown as an assistant coach?
The Wiseman situation alone was enough to reveal Memphis and Penny was reverting back to former questionable methods. The reality that an NCAA investigation revealed much more is hardly surprising.
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When do Kansas’s penalties come down?
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When do Kansas’s penalties come down?
Summer 2030
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When do Kansas’s penalties come down?
Seems like forever.
Its been a bad look for everyone. The NCAA looks inept, KU looks like it embraces cheating and I know KU alums who are tired of the jokes because they know about and admit KU cheated. It reminds me of Arizona fans admitting no amount of wins are worth the cloud of allegations and the ultimate penalties. My KU booster friend has been ready to move on because he knows KU is way bigger than Self.
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Seems like forever.
Its been a bad look for everyone. The NCAA looks inept, KU looks like it embraces cheating and I know KU alums who are tired of the jokes because they know about and admit KU cheated. It reminds me of Arizona fans admitting no amount of wins are worth the cloud of allegations and the ultimate penalties. My KU booster friend has been ready to move on because he knows KU is way bigger than Self.
The wind are absolutely worth it. The NCAA punishments are a joke.
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Seems like forever.
Its been a bad look for everyone. The NCAA looks inept, KU looks like it embraces cheating and I know KU alums who are tired of the jokes because they know about and admit KU cheated. It reminds me of Arizona fans admitting no amount of wins are worth the cloud of allegations and the ultimate penalties. My KU booster friend has been ready to move on because he knows KU is way bigger than Self.
What penalties?
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Seems like forever.
Its been a bad look for everyone. The NCAA looks inept, KU looks like it embraces cheating and I know KU alums who are tired of the jokes because they know about and admit KU cheated. It reminds me of Arizona fans admitting no amount of wins are worth the cloud of allegations and the ultimate penalties. My KU booster friend has been ready to move on because he knows KU is way bigger than Self.
My guess is that your friend will be celebrating next weekend though.
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Seems like forever.
Its been a bad look for everyone. The NCAA looks inept, KU looks like it embraces cheating and I know KU alums who are tired of the jokes because they know about and admit KU cheated. It reminds me of Arizona fans admitting no amount of wins are worth the cloud of allegations and the ultimate penalties. My KU booster friend has been ready to move on because he knows KU is way bigger than Self.
So you have a Zona friend who claimed Miller didn’t win enough so he was fine with him leaving. And now a KU fan who is ready to move on from the coach with the best winning percentage in school history cause of jokes? Like Fluffy said, I’m sure he has ZERO problem cheering this run. He was probably just bitter it had been 3 seasons since a second weekend appearance
Or there is some light dishonesty masquerading as morality
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So you have a Zona friend who claimed Miller didn’t win enough so he was fine with him leaving. And now a KU fan who is ready to move on from the coach with the best winning percentage in school history cause of jokes? Like Fluffy said, I’m sure he has ZERO problem cheering this run. He was probably just bitter it had been 3 seasons since a second weekend appearance
Or there is some light dishonesty masquerading as morality
Not sure what you mean or why I'd have any reason to be dishonest. First, there has been national news stories about AZ and KU. I have never claimed to know more than has been reported. I have not started any rumors only gave my personal experiences with alum I know. Second, I live in the west so I have met, done business with and befriended many alumni for many schools including AZ and KU. We talk basketball because I enjoy it and they like or are interested in MU. My AZ friend is not a booster, my KU friend is a booster. They have never told me anything that is not already common knowledge. (I have a standing offer from my business partners who are major boosters to use 4 courtside seats at Rupp Arena yet I don't have any comments on UK)
If I have claimed anything that is faux morality, it is my fault to not be clear in simply giving other perspectives.
Finally, anyone one can claim anything they want on an internet fan board, so I would not take my posts or anyone's as gospel. I think it's great of you to have a healthy skepticism about anything I post.
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Not sure what you mean or why I'd have any reason to be dishonest. First, there has been national news stories about AZ and KU. I have never claimed to know more than has been reported. I have not started any rumors only gave my personal experiences with alum I know. Second, I live in the west so I have met, done business with and befriended many alumni for many schools including AZ and KU. We talk basketball because I enjoy it and they like or are interested in MU. My AZ friend is not a booster, my KU friend is a booster. They have never told me anything that is not already common knowledge. (I have a standing offer from my business partners who are major boosters to use 4 courtside seats at Rupp Arena yet I don't have any comments on UK)
If I have claimed anything that is faux morality, it is my fault to not be clear in simply giving other perspectives.
Finally, anyone one can claim anything they want on an internet fan board, so I would not take my posts or anyone's as gospel. I think it's great of you to have a healthy skepticism about anything I post.
First off my apologies, you misinterpreted my post and reading back I can see how that may have occurred. I wasn’t meaning to imply you were being dishonest or making up such stories. I just found it interesting that there was an alum who was over a disgraced fired coach in Miller but claimed it for on the court reasons and then a KU supporter, a booster no less, who thought ridicule was as too much superseded success and wins, though Self has been doing it for years and years.
Their stances seem a bit dishonest in favor of an outwardly moral/pious appearance. That’s all. I know you’re just the messenger
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Kansas hoops is no doubt corruption-city. Arizona basketball needs to be put down too. Cheating goes back to Lute. Fan base is in denial. Walmart Wildcats.
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Titles are forever
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Titles are forever
Was going to upvote this but then I realized I misread the first word.
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When do Kansas’s penalties come down?
Wichita State will get penalized for something instead.
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My apologies if posted elsewhere, but saw today that LSU has now lost their entire roster plus every recruit from 22 and 23.
I think that's now the definition of bare cupboard
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Wichita State employed Greg Marshall and paid him $8M to go away, they deserve it...
Wichita State will get penalized for something instead.
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Summer 2030
St. Peter's will get the hammer
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Cheaters never prosper?
Still waiting on all those punishments and sanctions some on this board said were coming. Summer of 2020, was it?
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As Mark Grace (and others) said: "It you're not cheating, you're not trying."
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Has a defending NCAA Tournament champion ever been ineligible for the next year's NCAA Tournament?
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Has a defending NCAA Tournament champion ever been ineligible for the next year's NCAA Tournament?
I don’t know the answer to that, but I sure hope the ncaa has penalties handed down by the start of next season. Bill Self is a special kind of terd.
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I don’t know the answer to that, but I sure hope the ncaa has penalties handed down by the start of next season. Bill Self is a special kind of terd.
Kansas shouldn't be penalized. No one should be penalized for giving recruits money. It should be completely within the rules to do so.
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Kansas shouldn't be penalized. No one should be penalized for giving recruits money. It should be completely within the rules to do so.
Yes. And throw all of donors and the recruits who received money in jail for tax evasion
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Kansas shouldn't be penalized. No one should be penalized for giving recruits money. It should be completely within the rules to do so.
The five level 1 allegations Kansas is charged with beg to differ.
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Kansas shouldn't be penalized. No one should be penalized for giving recruits money. It should be completely within the rules to do so.
Regardless of what "should be", they should face repercussions if they broke rules when the rules were in place.
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Regardless of what "should be", they should face repercussions if they broke rules when the rules were in place.
I'm not a rules for the sake of rules guy. Unjust rules should not be enforced.
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I'm not a rules for the sake of rules guy. Unjust rules should not be enforced.
honest coaches get fired every year losing to coaches who cheat….as correctly said a few years back by John Thompson.
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Titles are forever, the NCAA won’t be
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honest coaches get fired every year losing to coaches who cheat….as correctly said a few years back by John Thompson.
They should have been better coaches then.
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I'm not a rules for the sake of rules guy. Unjust rules should not be enforced.
I'm fine with paying players, but college sports doesn't survive in any recognizable form without some rules governing compensation and how it's administered.
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I'm fine with paying players, but college sports doesn't survive in any recognizable form without some rules governing compensation and how it's administered.
I think you are engaging in a bit of hyperbole here, but sure. Compensation should be made legally (from a tax perspective) and within the bounds of some sort of compensation agreement, but I don't care one bit if Kansas paid each player $1 million to play basketball for them.
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I think you are engaging in a bit of hyperbole here, but sure. Compensation should be made legally (from a tax perspective) and within the bounds of some sort of compensation agreement, but I don't care one bit if Kansas paid each player $1 million to play basketball for them.
What if Kansas offered Justin Lewis $1 million midseason to play basketball for them?
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What if Kansas offered Justin Lewis $1 million midseason to play basketball for them?
You can't currently transfer mid-season and be immediately eligible. But if you could, that would be fine with me.
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You can't currently transfer mid-season and be immediately eligible. But if you could, that would be fine with me.
Sounds to me like a rule for rule's sake.
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https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/3435327/5-years-ago-today-the-fbi-held-a-press-conference-promising-college-basketball-will-change-forever-nothing-has-changed
5 years... Pepperidge farms remembers.
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https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/3435327/5-years-ago-today-the-fbi-held-a-press-conference-promising-college-basketball-will-change-forever-nothing-has-changed
5 years... Pepperidge farms remembers.
Is this the summer Chicos promised hammers would drop?
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You can't currently transfer mid-season and be immediately eligible. But if you could, that would be fine with me.
Granting mid season transfers immediate eligibility would be a very bad idea imo.
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https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/3435327/5-years-ago-today-the-fbi-held-a-press-conference-promising-college-basketball-will-change-forever-nothing-has-changed
5 years... Pepperidge farms remembers.
5 years to judge
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You can't currently transfer mid-season and be immediately eligible. But if you could, that would be fine with me.
That would be totally chaotic. But, I guess that fits your view of the world. Whatever.
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That would be totally chaotic. But, I guess that fits your view of the world. Whatever.
Agree - I’m in favor of the “new world” ncaa but immediate eligibility half way through the season would cause too much turmoil.
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You can't currently transfer mid-season and be immediately eligible. But if you could, that would be fine with me.
Why not allow for trades during the season as well. Such as trading Kolek to Kentucky for their backup center, $500K, and two horses.
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Why not allow for trades during the season as well. Such as trading Kolek to Kentucky for their backup center, $500K, and two horses.
I'm good with this as long as we can also choose a few whiny Scoopers to send with him as a package deal.
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https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/college/memphis-tigers/basketball/2022/09/27/memphis-basketball-iarp-penny-hardaway-ncaa-infractions/8023949001/
Memphis basketball has the hammer dropped on it. Not sure how they’ll ever recover. Have to think coaches across the country are terrified of what may happen to them.
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Yep, shaking in their boots.
Time for some barbecue.
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https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/college/memphis-tigers/basketball/2022/09/27/memphis-basketball-iarp-penny-hardaway-ncaa-infractions/8023949001/
Memphis basketball has the hammer dropped on it. Not sure how they’ll ever recover. Have to think coaches across the country are terrified of what may happen to them.
5K fine? That is walkon NIL money
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https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1587816935231725568?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Is this that hammer we heard so much about dropping?
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https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1587816935231725568?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Is this that hammer we heard so much about dropping?
The NCAA was too distracted by the Baba Miller 16 game suspension case…
https://saturdayroad.com/florida-state-seminoles/key-florida-state-basketball-player-suspended-for-receiving-illegal-benefits/
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https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1587816935231725568?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Is this that hammer we heard so much about dropping?
Finally, Chicos has been exonerated
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https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1587816935231725568?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Is this that hammer we heard so much about dropping?
They couldn't raise Thor hammer, so....
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https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1587816935231725568?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Is this that hammer we heard so much about dropping?
Self got 4 games, his toupee got 5
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https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1587816935231725568?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Is this that hammer we heard so much about dropping?
Makes no sense. Bill Self said he and Kansas did nothing wrong. If you dig deep, peel away the onion layers and put a tin foil hat on you might be able to imply Bill Self is a liar. :D
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Makes no sense. Bill Self said he and Kansas did nothing wrong. If you dig deep, peel away the onion layers and put a tin foil hat on you might be able to imply Bill Self is a liar. :D
Liar and national champ
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https://twitter.com/mattnorlander/status/1588146128104701953?s=46&t=rFdybfj1Y6bh8rR2JrWZGQ
Looks like the Chicos exoneration tour continues. Victory laps for him
https://twitter.com/mattnorlander/status/1588146128104701953?s=46&t=rFdybfj1Y6bh8rR2JrWZGQ
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https://twitter.com/mattnorlander/status/1588146128104701953?s=46&t=rFdybfj1Y6bh8rR2JrWZGQ
Looks like the Chicos exoneration tour continues. Victory laps for him
https://twitter.com/mattnorlander/status/1588146128104701953?s=46&t=rFdybfj1Y6bh8rR2JrWZGQ
How will the program ever recover? Really sending a message to schools to not cheat. At least Louisville had their banner taken down. Nobody will ever remember that they actually won the national championship.
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How will the program ever recover? Really sending a message to schools to not cheat. At least Louisville had their banner taken down. Nobody will ever remember that they actually won the national championship.
The banner probably cost more than $5000 to make, so there's that.
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Marquette should have hired Pitino tbh
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https://twitter.com/mattnorlander/status/1588146128104701953?s=46&t=rFdybfj1Y6bh8rR2JrWZGQ
Looks like the Chicos exoneration tour continues. Victory laps for him
https://twitter.com/mattnorlander/status/1588146128104701953?s=46&t=rFdybfj1Y6bh8rR2JrWZGQ
Man, the NCAA is absolutely brutal. People went to jail because of this, but now the NCAA determines it wasn't that big of a deal. That entire FBI investigation was a joke.
https://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa-determination-in-louisville-case-seems-to-contradict-federal-prosecution-that-sent-three-people-to-jail-232057280.html
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How will the program ever recover? Really sending a message to schools to not cheat. At least Louisville had their banner taken down. Nobody will ever remember that they actually won the national championship.
They'll remember because the banner, or a replica of it, is hanging on a non-University building next door to the YUM Center.
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Man, the NCAA is absolutely brutal. People went to jail because of this, but now the NCAA determines it wasn't that big of a deal. That entire FBI investigation was a joke.
https://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa-determination-in-louisville-case-seems-to-contradict-federal-prosecution-that-sent-three-people-to-jail-232057280.html
Nobody could see this coming
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They'll remember because the banner, or a replica of it, is hanging on a non-University building next door to the YUM Center.
*Insert fart noise here
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They'll remember because the banner, or a replica of it, is hanging on a non-University building next door to the YUM Center.
That seems like something a very angry Kentucky fan would do Louisville and their fans.
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Well, well, well. Chicos has finally been exonerated
https://twitter.com/danaoneilwriter/status/1603066594078461952?s=46&t=eHxk25cLZEfHSewuWGdo2Q
Hahahshshahahahahahahahwhwhwhwhshahwhahwhahahwhwhahahaha
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Well, well, well. Chicos has finally been exonerated
https://twitter.com/danaoneilwriter/status/1603066594078461952?s=46&t=eHxk25cLZEfHSewuWGdo2Q
Hahahshshahahahahahahahwhwhwhwhshahwhahwhahahwhwhahahaha
They gave a 2 year show cause to former Marquette assistant Mark Phelps. ::)
Really the entire matter has become a joke and just highlights how ridiculous most of these rules are / were.
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Man, the NCAA is absolutely brutal. People went to jail because of this, but now the NCAA determines it wasn't that big of a deal. That entire FBI investigation was a joke.
https://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa-determination-in-louisville-case-seems-to-contradict-federal-prosecution-that-sent-three-people-to-jail-232057280.html
…joke indeed. Led by Peter Strzok, no doubt.
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…joke indeed. Led by Peter Strzok, no doubt.
I have no idea who that is.
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I have no idea who that is.
He's making a political statement either about the "botched" investigation into Hildogs emails or about the 2016 interference cases.
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He's making a political statement either about the "botched" investigation into Hildogs emails or about the 2016 interference cases.
Oh. A right wing grievance post. ::)
How clever.
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Conservatives getting mad about the improper handling of classified documents. Funny.
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I have no idea who that is.
Buttery Males.
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…joke indeed. Led by Peter Strzok, no doubt.
Please take it to the Politics Board
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Will Wade hired by Mcneese St one year removed from sanctions.
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Will Wade hired by Mcneese St one year removed from sanctions.
I believe he is still looking down the barrel of a Show Cause ruling. May have to sit a year or more.
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Peter Strouk is a hero. He saved the country don’t cha know.
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Well, as promised by Chicos all those years ago, the shoe finally dropped.
Kansas has been given crippling penalties by the NCAA. Not sure they’ll ever recover from this.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/kansas-gets-three-year-probation-bill-self-dodges-penalty-as-ncaa-issues-ruling-in-infractions-case/
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I had breakfast with a major KU booster today. Told me he hopes they win a NC this year because Self and KU will get hammered by the NCAA next year.
Also told me about Danny Manning getting all sorts of "benefits" while he was at KU. I know that's not a secret since KU was punished for it, but was fun to hear from someone who saw it first hand.
Bwahahahahahaha
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It’s a process, like a court proceeding. Investigation, charges, ability to respond by the accused. The difference is the accused is arguing against the judge. There’s no ability to plea.
Sorry it can’t all happen in three days and be litigated by Twitter and message board conversations.
Bwahahahahahhahahaha
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*Yawn*
Wake me when LSU, Arizona, Kansas, Auburn, etc get hit.
Keep napping
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Dan Wolken has been tweeting out excerpts from the investigation. And it really looks like the last thing the NCAA wanted to do was punish Kansas.
https://x.com/DanWolken/status/1712186266660319313?s=20
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Dan Wolken has been tweeting out excerpts from the investigation. And it really looks like the last thing the NCAA wanted to do was punish Kansas.
https://x.com/DanWolken/status/1712186266660319313?s=20
Don’t worry - they’ll make it up by dropping the hammer on Northern Iowa the next time they incorrectly fill out a form.
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Keep napping
Zzzzzz