MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: rocket surgeon on January 27, 2020, 08:18:55 AM
-
since yesterday afternoon's tragic helicopter accident involving 9 people including kobe bryant, his daughter brianna, john altobelli, his wife and a daughter, and others, there is a call to change the NBA logo to one featuring kobe. i think this is a valid discussion, but there also may be other ways to honor him within the circles of the NBA. i'm not saying do not change the logo, but "knee jerk reactions" aren't always the well thought out. but i am also willing to listen to a balanced debate-
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/kobe-bryant-dead-nba-change-logo
many say, while others will feign ignorance for legal and proprietary reasons, that the original and present NBA logo is a silhouette of jerry west. if true, it was created back in 1969 while he was in the middle of a great career.
https://theundefeated.com/features/hall-of-fame-jerry-west-designer-alan-siegel-nba-logo/
regardless, it is an interesting story of how and why the original logo was created. is the tragic death of kobe bryant a valid reason to change something that in essence provided kobe a venue to become famous between 1996-2016? would the NBA be just as famous if a guy like kobe never came about? although he was a great player, the youngest to reach the 30,000 point plateau, the NBA is a collective gathering of many who made and continue to make the NBA an international organization. i think there could be something the NBA could do in his honor, but i'm not sure changing an iconic logo at this point would be proper.
-
If Jordan were killed next year, would they change it again?
-
It's an interesting idea. Especially since Jerry West has long said they should change the logo.
Kobe has as good of a claim as anyone, but I don't know if you can give it to him just because he died.
-
If Jordan were killed next year, would they change it again?
This is where I am. You can't really change it just because he died.
-
No thanks.
-
but i am also willing to listen to a balanced debate-
Boy, did you come to the wrong place.
-
Nope.
-
Nah
-
Naming the MVP award after Kobe makes much more sense. Not 1 in 100 people could identify Maurice Podoloff.
-
Naming the MVP award after Kobe makes much more sense. Not 1 in 100 people could identify Maurice Podoloff.
Reasonable ... although he won the MVP award exactly the same number of times that Rose, Shaq, Westbrook, Cowens, Nowitzki, Reed and Iverson.
And half as many times as Steve Nash, Steph Curry and Bob Pettit each did.
Again, I would think Jordan (someday) would be a more appropriate person to name that award after. Or Magic, or Kareem, or Russell, or LeBron.
-
Reasonable ... although he won the MVP award exactly the same number of times that Rose, Shaq, Westbrook, Cowens, Nowitzki, Reed and Iverson.
And half as many times as Steve Nash, Steph Curry and Bob Pettit each did.
Again, I would think Jordan (someday) would be a more appropriate person to name that award after. Or Magic, or Kareem, or Russell, or LeBron.
You're technically correct, 82.
But, by that reasoning, let's get rid of Jerry West on the logo for the entire league. He never won an MVP. There is also no question that KB was a better player than Steve Nash, Steph Curry or Bob Pettit.
More than being one of the greatest players ever, he defined an era in the NBA as Jordan did before him and Lebron did after Kobe. If you ask a kid in China or Africa who Bob Pettit is, I guess most would be clueless. They all know Kobe, just as much as MJ and LBJ.
If it was MJ who had died, I think most would support the MVP being named for him, but he didn't. If this were about accomplishments, it should be the Kareen Abdul Jabbar award. He won it more than anyone else and is arguably the greatest player in NBA history.
-
I guess I don't understand why anything permanent ought to be done just because the guy died. Tragedy? Absolutely. Reason to rename trophies or re-do logos? Not to me.
-
I guess I don't understand why anything permanent ought to be done just because the guy died.
Because this is why you have waiting periods for the hall of fame, etc. Because people get too hung up on emotion and short-term thinking.
I mean, they named the Larry O'Brien Trophy in honor of the namesake's retirement despite the fact the was a pretty terrible commissioner. In retrospect, waiting for awhile would have been a better option.
-
And the NBA will never change its logo to honor Kobe considering the rape allegations.
-
this is a typical knee jerk response in our social media culture when someone dies - do everything to honor them even if it's extreme.
First we change the logo (and like Cheeks said, what happens when Jordan dies). Then we retire 24 across the league. Hell, in high school and college too. No more 24. Then "24" on every court. The 24 second shot clock becomes "the Kobe Clock" and the 8 second violation becomes "the Kobe violation." Oh, and since he was an 18-time all-star, let's rename it the "Kobe Star Game." Oh, and we need to detonate that resort in Colorado too.
Of course, we have to change all of that when Jordan dies, then when LeBron dies.
-
I kinda like the "Kobe Clock" idea though....
-
this is a typical knee jerk response in our social media culture when someone dies - do everything to honor them even if it's extreme.
First we change the logo (and like Cheeks said, what happens when Jordan dies). Then we retire 24 across the league. Hell, in high school and college too. No more 24. Then "24" on every court. The 24 second shot clock becomes "the Kobe Clock" and the 8 second violation becomes "the Kobe violation." Oh, and since he was an 18-time all-star, let's rename it the "Kobe Star Game." Oh, and we need to detonate that resort in Colorado too.
Of course, we have to change all of that when Jordan dies, then when LeBron dies.
I didn't say the award should be named for Kobe. I did say that it should be named for Kareem.
-
I didn't say the award should be named for Kobe. I did say that it should be named for Kareem.
I was no responding to you, I do agree with your Kareem idea (or maybe calling it the Kareem trophy). Just commenting on the general "name everything after Kobe" push that will probably go away in a week.
-
this is a typical knee jerk response in our social media culture when someone dies - do everything to honor them even if it's extreme.
First we change the logo (and like Cheeks said, what happens when Jordan dies). Then we retire 24 across the league. Hell, in high school and college too. No more 24. Then "24" on every court. The 24 second shot clock becomes "the Kobe Clock" and the 8 second violation becomes "the Kobe violation." Oh, and since he was an 18-time all-star, let's rename it the "Kobe Star Game." Oh, and we need to detonate that resort in Colorado too.
Of course, we have to change all of that when Jordan dies, then when LeBron dies.
A Kobe violation might misconstrued...
I can't remember who said it on Twitter, but I think it would be great if at the All Star game, the East wore 24 jerseys and the West wore 8 jerseys
-
I can't remember who said it on Twitter, but I think it would be great if at the All Star game, the East wore 24 jerseys and the West wore 8 jerseys
A one-time honor like that would be nice.
-
Poor Jerry West looked absolutely broken today on TNT.
It’s been a rough watch all around.
-
And the NBA will never change its logo to honor Kobe considering the rape allegations.
gasp!!
-
I guess I don't understand why anything permanent ought to be done just because the guy died. Tragedy? Absolutely. Reason to rename trophies or re-do logos? Not to me.
Ding ding ding.
After Munson died, there were calls to put him in the HoF immediately even though he obviously was not a Hall-caliber ballplayer.
Because this is why you have waiting periods for the hall of fame, etc. Because people get too hung up on emotion and short-term thinking.
Yep.
-
I am always amazed at how over the top are the statements about celebrities when they die, especially under tragic circumstances.
Kobe Bryant was a basketball player. And he was hardly a saint.
Let his family grieve but his passing is not in any way a tragic loss for mankind.
A good friend of mine is a geneticist at Fred Hutch, part of a team that has won several Nobel Prizes. That man's work is epic. And I rather doubt he has the checkered personal life of Mr Bryant.
https://www.fredhutch.org/en/about/about-the-hutch/honors-awards.html
As a society, we vest far too much value in the contribution of celebrity. And celebrity has an annoying habit of over reach, expounding on complex issues in which they have absolutely zero authority and yet speak with such assurance.
Kobe Bryant played basketball. The tradesmen who don hard hat and build skyscrapers in downtown Seattle have far greater nobility, quite frankly.
-
While I agree that it's been too over the top with Kobe, there is no reason to say someone else's death should mean more. That's not really helpful either.
-
I am always amazed at how over the top are the statements about celebrities when they die, especially under tragic circumstances.
Kobe Bryant was a basketball player. And he was hardly a saint.
Let his family grieve but his passing is not in any way a tragic loss for mankind.
A good friend of mine is a geneticist at Fred Hutch, part of a team that has won several Nobel Prizes. That man's work is epic. And I rather doubt he has the checkered personal life of Mr Bryant.
https://www.fredhutch.org/en/about/about-the-hutch/honors-awards.html
As a society, we vest far too much value in the contribution of celebrity. And celebrity has an annoying habit of over reach, expounding on complex issues in which they have absolutely zero authority and yet speak with such assurance.
Kobe Bryant played basketball. The tradesmen who don hard hat and build skyscrapers in downtown Seattle have far greater nobility, quite frankly.
Very cool and relevant.
A flex as sick as Cheeks's name drops.
-
While I agree that it's been too over the top with Kobe, there is no reason to say someone else's death should mean more. That's not really helpful either.
I am not saying that, Sultan. Everyone's passing is a tragedy for someone.
But the eulogies for this guy are beyond absurd. And, as you have pointed out, there are more than a few women whose lives he shattered.
The guy was an entertainer. Nothing more. And, frankly, his predatory behavior was disturbing. He avoided censure and punishment by paying off people. Including his wife.
-
I am always amazed at how over the top are the statements about celebrities when they die, especially under tragic circumstances.
Kobe Bryant was a basketball player. And he was hardly a saint.
Let his family grieve but his passing is not in any way a tragic loss for mankind.
A good friend of mine is a geneticist at Fred Hutch, part of a team that has won several Nobel Prizes. That man's work is epic. And I rather doubt he has the checkered personal life of Mr Bryant.
https://www.fredhutch.org/en/about/about-the-hutch/honors-awards.html (https://www.fredhutch.org/en/about/about-the-hutch/honors-awards.html)
As a society, we vest far too much value in the contribution of celebrity. And celebrity has an annoying habit of over reach, expounding on complex issues in which they have absolutely zero authority and yet speak with such assurance.
Kobe Bryant played basketball. The tradesmen who don hard hat and build skyscrapers in downtown Seattle have far greater nobility, quite frankly.
OK as long as they weren't firefighters eh?
-
Kobe Bryant played basketball. The tradesmen who don hard hat and build skyscrapers in downtown Seattle have far greater nobility, quite frankly.
Or firemen, right?
-
this is a typical knee jerk response in our social media culture when someone dies - do everything to honor them even if it's extreme.
First we change the logo (and like Cheeks said, what happens when Jordan dies). Then we retire 24 across the league. Hell, in high school and college too. No more 24. Then "24" on every court. The 24 second shot clock becomes "the Kobe Clock" and the 8 second violation becomes "the Kobe violation." Oh, and since he was an 18-time all-star, let's rename it the "Kobe Star Game." Oh, and we need to detonate that resort in Colorado too.
Of course, we have to change all of that when Jordan dies, then when LeBron dies.
When did they remove Wilt Chamberlain from the Logo?
-
When did they remove Wilt Chamberlain from the Logo?
Don’t bury wilt just yet! Thanks to that lil blue pill, he’s still putting notches in the ole bed post ;)
-
When did they remove Wilt Chamberlain from the Logo?
20,000 reasons why The Stilt should be the face of the NBA
-
20,000 reasons why The Stilt should be the face of the NBA
20,000? That was the “reported” number back in 2001. He has a sign in his front yard reading like our national debt #’s
-
No need for a logo change, and yes, the celebrity factor very unfortunately makes a lot of people feel like it’s all too much.
There was an article out a few days ago where the Disney heiress said we need to stop making Kobe a deity because he wasn’t that great of a guy. That’s not false, but she’s really probably one of the last people who should be saying that.
-
author=GooooMarquette link=topic=59847.msg1200558#msg1200558 date=1580238050]
I guess I don't understand why anything permanent ought to be done just because the guy died.
See: John F. Kennedy.
-
Very cool and relevant.
A flex as sick as Cheeks's name drops.
You would have loved it this week with me....lots of names, lots of fun meetings and drinks, etc. But I will spare you. Had a wonderful time last two nights with some MU grads and former MU athletics employees here in Miami that I was able to assist and make a few memories for them to meet some players and celebs. Good times. Glad they were able to do a little name dropping of their own. ;)
-
You would have loved it this week with me....lots of names, lots of fun meetings and drinks, etc. But I will spare you. Had a wonderful time last two nights with some MU grads and former MU athletics employees here in Miami that I was able to assist and make a few memories for them to meet some players and celebs. Good times. Glad they were able to do a little name dropping of their own. ;)
And to think. It’s all thanks to you. What a great guy!
-
When I first heard about Kobe's death, I though about similar tragedies involving athletes of significant stature. Roberto Clemente immediately came to mind. 3,000 career hits. Prototypical 5 skill player. Premier Latin American player of his time. One of the best I ever saw play. Worked in the sugar cane fields as a child. Marine Corps veteran. Prolific philanthropist and he perished during an effort to aid victims of an earthquake. There were many well deserved accolades, including special HOF acceptance the after his death, in the days without social media. In comparison, the attention given to Kobe is at best over the top and ridiculous.
-
When I first heard about Kobe's death, I though about similar tragedies involving athletes of significant stature. Roberto Clemente immediately came to mind. 3,000 career hits. Prototypical 5 skill player. Premier Latin American player of his time. One of the best I ever saw play. Worked in the sugar cane fields as a child. Marine Corps veteran. Prolific philanthropist and he perished during an effort to aid victims of an earthquake. There were many well deserved accolades, including special HOF acceptance the after his death, in the days without social media. In comparison, the attention given to Kobe is at best over the top and ridiculous.
Agree, plus Clemente was still active and playing at an All Star level when he died.
-
And to think. It’s all thanks to you. What a great guy!
In this particular case....yes. In other cases where I have been the beneficiary of unique moments, there was someone else that was responsible.
That is how it works.
Thanks. You have a blessed day.
-
When I first heard about Kobe's death, I though about similar tragedies involving athletes of significant stature. Roberto Clemente immediately came to mind. 3,000 career hits. Prototypical 5 skill player. Premier Latin American player of his time. One of the best I ever saw play. Worked in the sugar cane fields as a child. Marine Corps veteran. Prolific philanthropist and he perished during an effort to aid victims of an earthquake. There were many well deserved accolades, including special HOF acceptance the after his death, in the days without social media. In comparison, the attention given to Kobe is at best over the top and ridiculous.
Sheriff
Your comments are spot on.
Roberto Clemente, USMC, was a man of impeccable character who not just served the less fortunate but died in that service.
Kobe Bryant was a man of questionable character who served himself.
-
Kobe Bryant was a man of questionable character who served himself.
Crash, with all due respect, I don’t think that’s fair and a bit dated. Much of the “blowback” to the Kobe remembrance and praise seems to be grounded in a mid to late 2000s lens. Kobe in his later career, and certainly in retirement, really made a turn. The stories out of his community in Newport Beach paint a picture of someone who matured and entered a new phase in his life. Specifically, not just his newfound approachability, but the depth of his charitable endeavors which he explicitly wanted to remain free of PR buzz and promotion. And lest it be painted with the favorable post-mortem brush, this was stuff I was reading and hearing well before he passed away. I had a former colleague who spent many years with Gatorade and interacted with him plenty as a result. She moved not long ago to a marketing role within one of his businesses where she interfaced directly with him monthly. She said “personality wise, I could scarcely recognize him. He was always charming enough, but detached and very much a restrained a**hole. But now? He is one of the most engaging, considerate, and thoughtful people I’ve ever worked with. His biggest problem is he won’t shut up about his kids haha”
There’s no doubt he earned much of the reputation from his 20s, but how many people gain a new clarity and wisdom from fatherhood and life in general into their 40s? I think that’s where much of the most moving Kobe remembrances came, from this next stage of life, not just the ruthless athlete and competitor.
-
Crash, with all due respect, I don’t think that’s fair and a bit dated. Much of the “blowback” to the Kobe remembrance and praise seems to be grounded in a mid to late 2000s lens. Kobe in his later career, and certainly in retirement, really made a turn. The stories out of his community in Newport Beach paint a picture of someone who matured and entered a new phase in his life. Specifically, not just his newfound approachability, but the depth of his charitable endeavors which he explicitly wanted to remain free of PR buzz and promotion. And lest it be painted with the favorable post-mortem brush, this was stuff I was reading and hearing well before he passed away. I had a former colleague who spent many years with Gatorade and interacted with him plenty as a result. She moved not long ago to a marketing role within one of his businesses where she interfaced directly with him monthly. She said “personality wise, I could scarcely recognize him. He was always charming enough, but detached and very much a restrained a**hole. But now? He is one of the most engaging, considerate, and thoughtful people I’ve ever worked with. His biggest problem is he won’t shut up about his kids haha”
There’s no doubt he earned much of the reputation from his 20s, but how many people gain a new clarity and wisdom from fatherhood and life in general into their 40s? I think that’s where much of the most moving Kobe remembrances came, from this next stage of life, not just the ruthless athlete and competitor.
Wags
I respect your judgment so I can accept that the man matured into someone better.
Gatorade! I remember that acquisition. A classic business case. I am sure your friend / colleague had a blast in that brand building effort. I think the heritage was academia to Stokely to Quaker Oats to PepsiCo.
It's like Filipino friends have described their history: 500 Years in a Convent then 50 Years in Hollywood.
-
You would have loved it this week with me....lots of names, lots of fun meetings and drinks, etc. But I will spare you. Had a wonderful time last two nights with some MU grads and former MU athletics employees here in Miami that I was able to assist and make a few memories for them to meet some players and celebs. Good times. Glad they were able to do a little name dropping of their own. ;)
"He said don't buy anything, let me see what I can do. Later he donated some sports autographed merchandise for an auction. I know he donated stuff for that poor young kid with Cancer here. Has he ever met that kid with cancer?” –Hoopaloop, extolling the virtues of ChicosBailBonds
Nice that you are skipping the middle man and going direct. Much more efficient than having to change accounts.
-
Gatorade! I remember that acquisition. A classic business case. I am sure your friend / colleague had a blast in that brand building effort. I think the heritage was academia to Stokely to Quaker Oats to PepsiCo.
Yep! Gatorade quickly outperformed everything else Stokley-Van Camp made. Quaker bought SVC and sold off both the Stokley piece and the Van Camp piece within a decade. I wonder what product/brand they were truly eyeing during that acquisition, haha
-
Yep! Gatorade quickly outperformed everything else Stokley-Van Camp made. Quaker bought SVC and sold off both the Stokley piece and the Van Camp piece within a decade. I wonder what product/brand they were truly eyeing during that acquisition, haha
Canned Creamed Corn...Canned Beans in a Mystery Sauce...
Little wonder they dumped those brands!
What PepsiCo did with Gatorade is a case study in building a brand.