MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on January 24, 2020, 10:41:02 PM
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1. Hinkle is a house of horrors. Kudos to the Butler crowd. Certainly influenced some calls. MU fans, take notice.
2. After a few good games, Jayce wasn't great tonight. Theo was a beast. And played big minutes without fouling out. But you have to secure defensive rebounds in overtime.
3. I mentioned it elsewhere, but for a NPOY candidate, Markus does not get a proportionate number of calls. He made one basket after getting knocked to the ground on that lay up. (no call) And he looked uncomfortable after that. Wasn't close on his shots. Never went to the hoop again. I hope there wasn't a concussion.
4. Baldwin is a winner. It isn't like he was making uncontested shots. Pick, roll, pull up. Iso, spin, turnaround. He went full hero ball and it worked.
5. Koby is terrible. Until he does that last second 3 thing. And those 3's in overtime thing. Maybe he has been thinking too much.
6. Butler didn't foul when up 3. Unless they wanted to and the player didn't execute.
7. Did Bailey lose track of the clock and score, or was fouling while tied with 20 seconds left part of a plan? Would like to hear the answer to that.
8. Symir looked like a freshman on defense tonight. Reminded me of Martin and Elliott a couple of years ago.
9. The turning point of the game came when Markus had the ball literally wrestled away from him without a call and then made a lay up, took an elbow to the head and was knocked to the ground without a call. Markus made one shot the rest of the way. Meanwhile, it energized Baldwin. And he took over.
10. Need to quit missing lay ups. Sacar. Koby.
11. This one hurt. Would have been a nice road win. But MU doesn't suck, the season isn't over, and Wojo shouldn't be fired. The team sure as crap didn't quit.
11. Greg would have been useful tonight.
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Regarding 7, Wojo at least made a signal that looked like he was telling Bailey to foul.
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Kids played their heart out. Markus not the same after hitting his head. Very frustrating loss.
A ton of of our fans in the game thread are massive a**holes.
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Considering game/time/situation, that’s a terrible loss. Poor coaching, no adjustments on defense (Baldwin went to the same spot nearly every time), really bad execution when up in the final two minutes offensively, to the horrendous Bailey foul (seriously, WTF?).
Koby bailed MU out, but that’s a piss poor loss tonight.
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As talented as Markus is, it is games like this that causes people to be unhappy with him. It wasn't injury that caused him to go 1-on-5 the entire last 3 minutes and ignore his teammates.
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Refs weren’t a problem. It was a physical, consistently called game.
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Last 90 seconds of regulation were terribly coached, why not go to the zone that we ended the 1st half with. 2nd Beast game that comes down to Wojo being outcoached. This one stings. @X now a much bigger game.
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1. We fouled in a tie game to put the team on the line. And we did it on purpose.
2. We refused to change up how we defended the high ball screen for Baldwin giving him open 12-16 footers the entire second half plus over time. Maybe try something different and hedge or even rush the ball screen to get it out of his hands? Instead we just threw up our hands.
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As talented as Markus is, it is games like this that causes people to be unhappy with him. It wasn't injury that caused him to go 1-on-5 the entire last 3 minutes and ignore his teammates.
Check Markus's numbers from the 11:34 minute on. Tell me he wasn't affected.
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Fouling on a tied game with 20 seconds left isn't the craziest idea imo. Marquette probably has a better chance winning with the ball then without
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Kids played their heart out. Markus not the same after hitting his head. Very frustrating lose.
A ton of of our fans in the game thread are massive a**holes.
This. So many folks around here don't deserve to have a player like Markus Howard on their team, and don't deserve to root for a winner.
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Check Markus's numbers from the 11:34 minute on. Tell me he wasn't affected.
then why is he still shooting awful shots? Stop shooting then.
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Check Markus's numbers from the 11:34 minute on. Tell me he wasn't affected.
That's not at all what he's saying, and you know that.
The post game show is ripping Howard.
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Markus has scored 2,500 points. I'm not trying to be a dick, but has he ever made a clutch shot in an end-of-game type situation to tie or take the lead with under 30 seconds left? I honestly don't remember.
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Refs weren’t a problem. It was a physical, consistently called game.
+1
Crowd probably influenced the refs, but I thought they were fair. Complaining about the refs--unless it's egregious a la Seton Hall last year--is weak sauce.
"I'll have weak sauce on my beef and cheddar."
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Baldwin was great for them, but Marquette lost this one.
If Marcus was hurt, why was he launching so many shots? How can he take that 3 with 10 seconds left.
This was too reminiscent of SH game in the BE tournament last year. Markus missing some fts and forcing terrible shots at crunch time. (Aside from refs in this game - I thought they were fine). How can it be that Wojo hasn’t gotten through to Markus on how to play in these moments?
It’s why there is a part of me that doesn’t want to watch Marquette games. Just feel like they will lose it at the end.
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Check Markus's numbers from the 11:34 minute on. Tell me he wasn't affected.
He should have come out then. He wasn’t effective at all from then on out. His shot selection and turnovers were killers in the last 2 minutes. I’ll put that on Woj.
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Markus was terrible after that fall and with NBA scouts in stands, did not impress. 8 for 27, 4 for 18 three and five turnovers
Missed layups really hurt. Koby missed three point blank in regulation and Sacar in OT. Even the color analyst Nick Bahe said the same at the end, that MU miss with those opportunities.
Refs not big issue, MU had some dumb fouls at bad times. MU was 11 for 16 and Butler 27 for 31 from line.
Cant wait for the Bailey foul explanation. Never seen that in all years watching B-ball. Bailey had 14/8 tonight though.
Congrats to Theo. Only one foul, yes one foul into overtime with 7 blocks. Probably Stud of Game if it was win.
Very tough loss, should have won this game with Butler missing players, but not as bad as Providence loss.
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Check Markus's numbers from the 11:34 minute on. Tell me he wasn't affected.
I'm not even talking about his shooting results. Unless he was concussed, there is no excuse for his decision making in the last 2-3 minutes.
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Howard's decision making and dribbling, must have been because he hit his head as well
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I'm sure MU was gassed. They basically played six guys in an OT game. It would be nice to have a roster with 13 scholarship players.
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That's not at all what he's saying, and you know that.
The post game show is ripping Howard.
He had 6 assists in the first half. He had 26 points at the 11:34 mark. The rest of the game, he was listless, off on all of his shots. I agree he was terrible. I agree that his decision making in the last quarter of the game was lousy. Why was he terrible? There is a clear inflection point.
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13, heck we can't even keep 9.
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Regarding 11: Wojo is mediocre. Approaching mike McCarthy mediocrity in never winning games they are not favored in. Hope everyone will be happy with medocrity for the rest of wojo’s career.
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He should have come out then. He wasn’t effective at all from then on out. His shot selection and turnovers were killers in the last 2 minutes. I’ll put that on Woj.
Probably. And replaced with whom?
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Great game and not a bad loss at all....Wojo definitely signaled for Bailey to foul so that’s on him and I hope he owns it but with how the game shook out it had zero effect on the result.
So frustrating to continue to see such a vocal minority of our fanbase cheer and pick him apart with every decision. We fire him and we probably lose half of our top 10 recruiting class and Who says there is a better coach out there just waiting for the MU job to open up. Quit being a bunch of reactionary boomers and calm down.
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He had 6 assists in the first half. He had 26 points at the 11:34 mark. The rest of the game, he was listless, off on all of his shots. I agree he was terrible. I agree that his decision making in the last quarter of the game was lousy. Why was he terrible? There is a clear inflection point.
So...
1) If that is truly the case, and not just an excuse. He should have never been on the floor. At all. Period.
2) This is not the first time we've seen this from Howard.
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1. We fouled in a tie game to put the team on the line. And we did it on purpose.
2. We refused to change up how we defended the high ball screen for Baldwin giving him open 12-16 footers the entire second half over time. Maybe try something different and hedge or even rush the ball screen to get it out of his hands? Instead we just threw up our hands.
This is completely on WOJO!!!!! What the hell are you doing????
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Hey Markus, you don't have to shoot it. You have four other teammates.
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9. If the refs call that foul on Baldwin, who knows.....
In the Fiserv I expect no call when Theo drops an elbow on Kamars head after a layup.
Markus was definitely not the same after that play.
So angry right now.
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Why does it seem like Marquette has more gut-punch losses than other teams over the years?
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I'm sure MU was gassed. They basically played six guys in an OT game. It would be nice to have a roster with 13 scholarship players.
Has never happened under Wojo. One way or another, MU almost always finishes the season with a short bench.
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He had 6 assists in the first half. He had 26 points at the 11:34 mark. The rest of the game, he was listless, off on all of his shots. I agree he was terrible. I agree that his decision making in the last quarter of the game was lousy. Why was he terrible? There is a clear inflection point.
(https://www.ibpsychmatters.com/x/cdn/?https://storage.googleapis.com/wzukusers/user-27641467/images/594a5d6f5e53dV3Wkjjj/shark-attacks.png)
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Great game and not a bad loss at all....Wojo definitely signaled for Bailey to foul so that’s on him and I hope he owns it but with how the game shook out it had zero effect on the result.
So frustrating to continue to see such a vocal minority of our fanbase cheer and pick him apart with every decision. We fire him and we probably lose half of our top 10 recruiting class and Who says there is a better coach out there just waiting for the MU job to open up. Quit being a bunch of reactionary boomers and calm down.
It was a terrible loss.
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Why does it seem like Marquette has more gut-punch losses than other teams over the years?
Because they are your team and you feel them more.
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Refs weren’t a problem. It was a physical, consistently called game.
Weren’t a problem.......not sure what that covers.
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Why does it seem like Marquette has more gut-punch losses than other teams over the years?
Because they absolutely do...glad someone else feels/sees/thinks that as well. It's so damn maddening.
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It was a terrible loss.
If you say so
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We lost . Victory has many fathers and defeat is an orphan.
Focus on next game now.
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Totally agree with Its DJ Over. What is the possible risk of any kind of defensive change for us in the last 5 minutes of the 2nd half? Baldwin might score on us? He's absolutely killing us from midrange, why not go zone for at least a possession or two? Markus was off, I get it, and we can talk about how he should or shouldn't be chuckin' it at the end, but one or two defensive stops in the last 5 minutes and its all different. Frozen Wojo…
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The post game show is ripping Howard.
Not really.
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Probably. And replaced with whom?
Last four minutes, I believe he was 1-4, with 2 turnovers. I get what you’re saying, but at some point in the second half, Howard became a replacement level player.
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1. Hinkle is a house of horrors. Kudos to the Butler crowd. Certainly influenced some calls. MU fans, take notice.
2. After a few good games, Jayce wasn't great tonight. Theo was a beast. And played big minutes without fouling out. But you have to secure defensive rebounds in overtime.
3. I mentioned it elsewhere, but for a NPOY candidate, Markus does not get a proportionate number of calls. He made one basket after getting knocked to the ground on that lay up. (no call) And he looked uncomfortable after that. Wasn't close on his shots. Never went to the hoop again. I hope there wasn't a concussion.
4. Baldwin is a winner. It isn't like he was making uncontested shots. Pick, roll, pull up. Iso, spin, turnaround. He went full hero ball and it worked.
5. Koby is terrible. Until he does that last second 3 thing. And those 3's in overtime thing. Maybe he has been thinking too much.
6. Butler didn't foul when up 3. Unless they wanted to and the player didn't execute.
7. Did Bailey lose track of the clock and score, or was fouling while tied with 20 seconds left part of a plan? Would like to hear the answer to that.
8. Symir looked like a freshman on defense tonight. Reminded me of Martin and Elliott a couple of years ago.
9. The turning point of the game came when Markus had the ball literally wrestled away from him without a call and then made a lay up, took an elbow to the head and was knocked to the ground without a call. Markus made one shot the rest of the way. Meanwhile, it energized Baldwin. And he took over.
10. Need to quit missing lay ups. Sacar. Koby.
11. This one hurt. Would have been a nice road win. But MU doesn't suck, the season isn't over, and Wojo shouldn't be fired. The team sure as crap didn't quit.
11. Greg would have been useful tonight.
Baldwin shoots 85% from the line. He was mistakenly fouled on purpose because either Bailey or the bench made a big mistake. Butler made 27 of 31 Free Throws.
Free Throws and Baldwin were the difference for Butler. MU couldn't guard Baldwin nor the pick and roll in 2nd half.
Late game self destruction for MU in an otherwise good effort.
Theo struggles on D when pulled away from the hoop. Otherwise he can be a beast rim protector in the paint. He tried a few but limited ill advised 6-7 foot jump hooks.
Strong Sacar game and Bailey. Big shots late Kobe. Need string together two halves. Bailey's game is all about confidence. MU was shooting it well.
Staff has to recognize Markus situation (injury?) sooner. Others were scoring and shooting it well, need to get better shots late within the offense, value the ball.
Tough one to lose leading much of the game. Up 9 multiple times but couldn't extend it.
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Markus is fun as hell when he is on fire. But, as the last three years have shown, you won't win anything of significance with Markus as your best player. Wojo + Markus....I've see this movie before and know how it ends.
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Totally agree with Its DJ Over. What is the possible risk of any kind of defensive change for us in the last 5 minutes of the 2nd half? Baldwin might score on us? He's absolutely killing us from midrange, why not go zone for at least a possession or two? Markus was off, I get it, and we can talk about how he should or shouldn't be chuckin' it at the end, but one or two defensive stops in the last 5 minutes and its all different. Frozen Wojo…
Frojo?
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The way he looked in the huddle I was surprised he wasnt in concussion protocol
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Baldwin shoots 85% from the line. He was mistakenly fouled on purpose because either Bailey or the bench made a big mistake. Butler made 27 of 31 Free Throws.
Free Throws and Baldwin were the difference for Butler. MU couldn't guard Baldwin nor the pick and roll in 2nd half.
Late game self destruction for MU in an otherwise good effort.
Theo struggles on D when pulled away from the hoop. Otherwise he can be a beast rim protector in the paint. He tried a few but limited ill advised 6-7 foot jump hooks.
Strong Sacar game and Bailey. Big shots late Kobe. Need string together two halves. Bailey's game is all about confidence. MU was shooting it well.
Staff has to recognize Markus situation (injury?) sooner. Others were scoring and shooting it well, need to get better shots late within the offense, value the ball.
Tough one to lose leading much of the game. Up 9 multiple times but couldn't extend it.
Yeah, forcing the ball to Theo wasn't the best offensive strategy. Sacar and Bailey were solid. They quit running the set that was getting Koby lay ups and Sacar corner 3's. The one thing missing from Sacar's game is the willingness to consistently finish through contact.
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The way he looked in the huddle I was surprised he wasnt in concussion protocol
I will be angrier at Wojo if he knowingly left Markus out there with a concussion than I ever would be over a loss.
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Great game and not a bad loss at all....Wojo definitely signaled for Bailey to foul so that’s on him and I hope he owns it but with how the game shook out it had zero effect on the result.
So frustrating to continue to see such a vocal minority of our fanbase cheer and pick him apart with every decision. We fire him and we probably lose half of our top 10 recruiting class and Who says there is a better coach out there just waiting for the MU job to open up. Quit being a bunch of reactionary boomers and calm down.
PaceArrow, it’s amazing how clearly you are able to see into the future!
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13, heck we can't even keep 9.
Why didn’t Elliott play?
The highlight of the game for me is Bailey took initiative on offense to create a few shots, like his fade-away.
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I think our bench coaches can take some blame as well,if your going to RIP Wojo,is there no communication between them?
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I think our bench coaches can take some blame as well,if your going to RIP Wojo,is there no communication between them?
Agreed. Don't they have like eight assistant coaches?
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As Maine goes, so goes the nation.
As Markus goes, so goes MU.
This was a very winnable game that was given away.
We'll see what Wojo can do with his wonderful frosh class but I don't think he's got great coach DNA.
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iI’ve watched every televised Marquette game for years. I want Wojo to succeed, but something is wrong. They make too many bad plays down the stretch. I’ll-advised shots, poor defensive strategy, no set plays.
Wojo needs an experienced bench coach. Someone who has his ear in these moments. A man who can set plays and deliver messages to players that it’s more important to get a good shot than which player takes the shot. It’s shocking that message has not gotten through. It’s a poor reflection and leads to anxiety in any close game because too many games have been lost due to corrective mistakes that have not been corrected.
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Great game and not a bad loss at all....Wojo definitely signaled for Bailey to foul so that’s on him and I hope he owns it but with how the game shook out it had zero effect on the result.
So frustrating to continue to see such a vocal minority of our fanbase cheer and pick him apart with every decision. We fire him and we probably lose half of our top 10 recruiting class and Who says there is a better coach out there just waiting for the MU job to open up. Quit being a bunch of reactionary boomers and calm down.
Thank you....voice of reason after a tough road loss that we could have won.
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iI’ve watched every televised Marquette game for years. I want Wojo to succeed, but something is wrong. They make too many bad plays down the stretch. I’ll-advised shots, poor defensive strategy, no set plays.
Wojo needs an experienced bench coach. Someone who has his ear in these moments. A man who can set plays and deliver messages to players that it’s more important to get a good shot than which player takes the shot. It’s shocking that message has not gotten through. It’s a poor reflection and leads to anxiety in any close game because too many games have been lost due to corrective mistakes that have not been corrected.
They were running sets. Remember those corner 3's and point blank lay ups (some of which were missed)? Wojo put the ball in the hands of the leading scorer in college basketball, a preseason first team all american, the returning BEPOY, a player who is (unless he goes into concussion protocol) probably going to finish in the top 25 of all time scorers in D1 basketball. And Markus didn't deliver.
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11. This one hurt. Would have been a nice road win. But MU doesn't suck, the season isn't over, and Wojo shouldn't be fired. The team sure as crap didn't quit.
My season outlook remains unchanged. Since this team won't contend for a BE title, just find a way to squeak into the tourney and hope Markus shoots us into the 2nd weekend.
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So...
1) If that is truly the case, and not just an excuse. He should have never been on the floor. At all. Period.
2) This is not the first time we've seen this from Howard.
Wojo will NEVER reign in Markus. NEVER. IMO it’s his biggest weakness. Its happened enough to affect the trajectory of a season. It happened tonight, it happened v Maryland, and it was the reason for the losing streak last year down the stretch when Markus hurt his wrist and played like garbage for 9 games yet still had his “ultimate green light”. And it’s why Sam is now at UVA (joey’s a bitch and would’ve left anyway).
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Yeah, forcing the ball to Theo wasn't the best offensive strategy. Sacar and Bailey were solid. They quit running the set that was getting Koby lay ups and Sacar corner 3's. The one thing missing from Sacar's game is the willingness to consistently finish through contact.
Yep, you had it correct, both Anim and McEwen need to finish their drives to the hoop better, especially through contact but also uncontested ones too. Would be a difference maker.
(By the way, credit to Theo for making two big FT’s later in the game. I would need to check but he has to be over 60% or so and his shot there looks better. Hopefully he can keep it going.)
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My season outlook remains unchanged. Since this team won't contend for a BE title, just find a way to squeak into the tourney and hope Markus shoots us into the 2nd weekend.
We play better when the entire team is contributing.
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Great game and not a bad loss at all....Wojo definitely signaled for Bailey to foul so that’s on him and I hope he owns it but with how the game shook out it had zero effect on the result.
So frustrating to continue to see such a vocal minority of our fanbase cheer and pick him apart with every decision. We fire him and we probably lose half of our top 10 recruiting class and Who says there is a better coach out there just waiting for the MU job to open up. Quit being a bunch of reactionary boomers and calm down.
Losing at Hinkle when Baldwin scores 30 isn't a bad loss. I'll agree with that. Losing a game that we led for like 38 minutes is kinda bad, though. We had an 83% chance to win with 2:30 to play, but then we let Baldwin beat us over and over then added in some highly questionable decisions in the final 20 seconds. All leading to coughing up a game that we comfortably led for the nearly the entire game.
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(By the way, credit to Theo for making two big FT’s later in the game. I would need to check but he has to be over 60% or so and his shot there looks better. Hopefully he can keep it going.)
Agreed. He worked on his FTs a lot during the offseason, and he no longer puts excessive arc on the shot. Now increasing his FT% from 50% to 60% might only add 10 points during the course of the season, but tonight it give us a chance to stay in the game.
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1. Hinkle is a house of horrors. Kudos to the Butler crowd. Certainly influenced some calls. MU fans, take notice.
2. After a few good games, Jayce wasn't great tonight. Theo was a beast. And played big minutes without fouling out. But you have to secure defensive rebounds in overtime.
3. I mentioned it elsewhere, but for a NPOY candidate, Markus does not get a proportionate number of calls. He made one basket after getting knocked to the ground on that lay up. (no call) And he looked uncomfortable after that. Wasn't close on his shots. Never went to the hoop again. I hope there wasn't a concussion.
4. Baldwin is a winner. It isn't like he was making uncontested shots. Pick, roll, pull up. Iso, spin, turnaround. He went full hero ball and it worked.
5. Koby is terrible. Until he does that last second 3 thing. And those 3's in overtime thing. Maybe he has been thinking too much.
6. Butler didn't foul when up 3. Unless they wanted to and the player didn't execute.
7. Did Bailey lose track of the clock and score, or was fouling while tied with 20 seconds left part of a plan? Would like to hear the answer to that.
8. Symir looked like a freshman on defense tonight. Reminded me of Martin and Elliott a couple of years ago.
9. The turning point of the game came when Markus had the ball literally wrestled away from him without a call and then made a lay up, took an elbow to the head and was knocked to the ground without a call. Markus made one shot the rest of the way. Meanwhile, it energized Baldwin. And he took over.
10. Need to quit missing lay ups. Sacar. Koby.
11. This one hurt. Would have been a nice road win. But MU doesn't suck, the season isn't over, and Wojo shouldn't be fired. The team sure as crap didn't quit.
11. Greg would have been useful tonight.
Not your best work Tower. Blaming the refs, blaming Brendan, not having Greg. Lots of excuses. Refereeing was NOT bad at all, particularly is being the road team. Before we went into foul mode, fouls were 16-14, with us being called for two more. Hell, Theo didn’t even get in foul trouble tonight. How often does that happen?
It was a great Big East game. A battle. Fun to watch. And I felt refs did a great job...were long stretches of uninterrupted play.
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Hard to put this on anyone but Wojo. Hurts much more than PC at home (despite what NET might say) IMO because we were the better team tonight while we weren't against PC. We had a deserved 4 pt lead at half, stretched it to 6 by the under 16, still at 6 at the under 12, still at 6 at the under 8, down to 4 at the under 4, still at 4 with 90 seconds to go, and somehow we need a prayer with sub 10sec just to force OT? I haven't been on the fire Wojo train ever, but if it comes out tomorrow that Markus is in concussion protocol, that might swing it for me. BU was selling out on Markus and forcing others to be them, and Sacar and BB were answering the call, yet we turn to a possibly concussed Markus to take an ill advised 3 when only down 1? Just another questionable crunch time call by Wojo.
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Why didn’t Elliott play?
The highlight of the game for me is Bailey took initiative on offense to create a few shots, like his fade-away.
He’s out with an ankle injury.
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Non Markus players shot 12-20 from 3.
MU wasted a very efficient night by them.
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Check Markus's numbers from the 11:34 minute on. Tell me he wasn't affected.
There is a concussion protocol now in college hoops.
As for why Markus struggled down the stretch - I’d point toward fatigue - and it is something that concerns me come March. Beyond fatigue, believe Butler shifted Kamar Baldwin as primary defender and they were hard hedging any ball screen. Lavin said it well at half - play Markus off the ball, as all you do with him being primary ball handler is to bring other defenders into the area on ball screens.
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Marquette had a 87% chance of winning this game with 2:36 to go in regulation, per Pomeroy.
Here is what happened with four time outs and a break with Bailey fouling out for five total stoppages. Wojo owned this but the situationals were poor and poorly executed. What’s clear was MU was riding Markus and Butler was riding Baldwin. What happened at that 44 second time out will be discussed for years as absolutely the assistants should have been reminding everyone in the huddle of the score and time. More so, it is also clear Jordan was adjusting to Markus on defense and Wojo was NOT adjusting to Baldwin...and only focused on offense.
Captain Obvious and Pomeroy say this was a gift wrapped present. That said, it was a great game and great effort by both teams. Certainly, a Warrior effort.
02:36 GOOD JUMPER by HOWARD,MARKUS 68 (+6) Marquette 62
02:21 68 (+4) Butler 64 GOOD JUMPER by BALDWIN,KAMAR
01:55 TIMEOUT 30SEC by TEAM
01:55 TIMEOUT MEDIA by TEAM
01:49 MISS JUMPER by ANIM,SACAR
-- REBOUND DEF by TEAM
01:35 TIMEOUT 30SEC by TEAM
01:29 68 (+2) Butler 66 GOOD JUMPER by BALDWIN,KAMAR
01:02 TURNOVER by HOWARD,MARKUS
01:02 STEAL by MCDERMOTT,SEAN
00:49 68 Butler 68 GOOD JUMPER by BALDWIN,KAMAR(in the paint)
00:44 TIMEOUT TEAM by TEAM
00:26 MISS 3PTR by HOWARD,MARKUS
-- REBOUND DEF by BALDWIN,KAMAR
00:20 FOUL by BAILEY,BRENDAN
00:20 68 Butler 69 (+1) GOOD FT by BALDWIN,KAMAR
00:20 MISS FT by BALDWIN,KAMAR
-- REBOUND DEF by MCEWEN,KOBY
00:11 MISS 3PTR by HOWARD,MARKUS
-- REBOUND DEF by BALDWIN,KAMAR
00:08 FOUL by HOWARD,MARKUS
00:08 68 Butler 70 (+2) GOOD FT by BALDWIN,KAMAR
00:08 68 Butler 71 (+3) GOOD FT by BALDWIN,KAMAR
00:08 TIMEOUT TEAM by TEAM
00:08 SUB OUT by JOHN,THEO
00:08 SUB IN by CAIN,JAMAL
00:02 GOOD 3PTR by MCEWEN,KOBY(fastbreak) 71 Marquette 71
00:00 MISS 3PTR by BALDWIN,KAMAR
--
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We play better when the entire team is contributing.
I'm talking about Markus being in the zone. Just getting lucky that he has one or two of those games.
Of course we still need the supporting cast, but to get to the 2nd weekend will take vintage Howard.
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Marquette had a 87% chance of winning this game with 2:36 to go in regulation, per Pomeroy.
Here is what happened with four time outs and a break with Bailey fouling out for five total stoppages. Wojo owned this but the situationals were poor and poorly executed. What’s clear was MU was riding Markus and Butler was riding Baldwin. What happened at that 44 second time out will be discussed for years as absolutely the assistants should have been reminding everyone in the huddle of the score and time. More so, it is also clear Jordan was adjusting to Markus on defense and Wojo was NOT adjusting to Baldwin...and only focused on offense.
Captain Obvious and Pomeroy say this was a gift wrapped present. That said, it was a great game and great effort by both teams. Certainly, a Warrior effort.
02:36 GOOD JUMPER by HOWARD,MARKUS 68 (+6) Marquette 62
02:21 68 (+4) Butler 64 GOOD JUMPER by BALDWIN,KAMAR
01:55 TIMEOUT 30SEC by TEAM
01:55 TIMEOUT MEDIA by TEAM
01:49 MISS JUMPER by ANIM,SACAR
-- REBOUND DEF by TEAM
01:35 TIMEOUT 30SEC by TEAM
01:29 68 (+2) Butler 66 GOOD JUMPER by BALDWIN,KAMAR
01:02 TURNOVER by HOWARD,MARKUS
01:02 STEAL by MCDERMOTT,SEAN
00:49 68 Butler 68 GOOD JUMPER by BALDWIN,KAMAR(in the paint)
00:44 TIMEOUT TEAM by TEAM
00:26 MISS 3PTR by HOWARD,MARKUS
-- REBOUND DEF by BALDWIN,KAMAR
00:20 FOUL by BAILEY,BRENDAN
00:20 68 Butler 69 (+1) GOOD FT by BALDWIN,KAMAR
00:20 MISS FT by BALDWIN,KAMAR
-- REBOUND DEF by MCEWEN,KOBY
00:11 MISS 3PTR by HOWARD,MARKUS
-- REBOUND DEF by BALDWIN,KAMAR
00:08 FOUL by HOWARD,MARKUS
00:08 68 Butler 70 (+2) GOOD FT by BALDWIN,KAMAR
00:08 68 Butler 71 (+3) GOOD FT by BALDWIN,KAMAR
00:08 TIMEOUT TEAM by TEAM
00:08 SUB OUT by JOHN,THEO
00:08 SUB IN by CAIN,JAMAL
00:02 GOOD 3PTR by MCEWEN,KOBY(fastbreak) 71 Marquette 71
00:00 MISS 3PTR by BALDWIN,KAMAR
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That’s brutal. That’s why you get paid the bucks - to figure out how to win games where you are up by 6 with 2:38 left.
Wojo/team could have turned the corner with this one, but instead snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Sure it’s only “one game” and one we were “expected to lose” but some games are bigger than others. This would have put us on track for top three finish and a 5-6 seed. A loss keeps us on our 9 seed path and an early exit. Mediocrity.
A few more chances to change the narrative, but not likely to get many better chances than this.
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Tonight sucked. Big picture, we lost a game by 4 that we were projected to lose by 6.
It's beyond frustrating to lose that way but they should be fine for the rest of the year. That was the most difficult game left on the schedule per Kenpom.
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Tonight sucked. Big picture, we lost a game by 4 that we were projected to lose by 6.
It's beyond frustrating to lose that way but they should be fine for the rest of the year. That was the most difficult game left on the schedule per Kenpom.
“Should be fine”
That’s the thing, we’ve been fine for awhile. We’re trying to get somewhere and we’re not going to get there only winning the games KenPom says we will. We need to steal a few. Big opportunity lost.
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I think our bench coaches can take some blame as well,if your going to RIP Wojo,is there no communication between them?
AGREED! I feel so sorry for Wojo because of the players and assistant coaches he is forced to deal with. Maybe someday Marquette will let Wojo pick one assistant coach and maybe two players. I bet we'd be in the Final Four if MU trusted Wojo to pick coaches and players. ..... Well maybe someday.
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“Should be fine”
That’s the thing, we’ve been fine for awhile. We’re trying to get somewhere and we’re not going to get there only winning the games KenPom says we will. We need to steal a few. Big opportunity lost.
We mostly agree. Definitely a missed opportunity. Hopefully we get a good bounceback on Wednesday.
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AGREED! I feel so sorry for Wojo because of the players and assistant coaches he is forced to deal with. Maybe someday Marquette will let Wojo pick one assistant coach and maybe two players. I bet we'd be in the Final Four if MU trusted Wojo to pick coaches and players. ..... Well maybe someday.
Don't forget.....we need more blessings from the Father during Half Time. That could have been the difference tonight - not to mention an abacus.
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That hurt. Chance for a big road win and we lost it in the last two minutes. Felt a bit like Georgetown loss last season. They ran the same play repeatedly and scored almost every time. It's tough, usually if you get a guy to settle for a pull up long 2, you consider a good defensive possession, but Baldwin's got a pair of brass ones and made us pay.
Markus' shot selection in the final 2 minutes of any game, not just tonight, has been a consistent issue. Dude is the least clutch 28 point a game scorer I have ever seen. He needs to be out there but I would design some plays that use him as a decoy and get a good luck for another player.
Reffing pet peeve of mine. When they anticipate that a team is going to foul intentionally to stop the clock, they need to actually wait for there to be a foul. On the foul that fouled out McEwen, Koby never touched Nze. Nze lowered his shoulder and bulldozed McEwen. Should've been a charge on Nze. Not even close to a reason why we lost the game, but just a pet peeve of mine.
If Wojo is covering for Bailey having a brain fart, that's a classy move. If Wojo really didn't know the score, that's an inexcusable mistake, at least he owned it.
McEwen and Sacar's ability to miss bunnies is amazing.
Theo needs to stop shooting jump hooks unless he's within two feet. Almost as good as a turnover. Loved what he did on defense though.
Honestly really enjoyed the game. Felt like a true Big East battle with both teams throwing haymakers and counterpunches. As brutal as the last two minutes were, the big threes by McEwen and Anim still made it exciting.
Big nights from McEwen, Anim, and Bailey. Cain had an efficient night off the bench. Would have never thought that would lead to a loss. Hopefully those 4 keep the mojo going while Howard gets settled and Elliott returns.
In the end, this is one of the reasons why I love road games against tough opponents. Low risk, high reward. You win and it does wonders for your tournament resume. You lose and the committee doesn't bat an eye. Just checked KenPom and our KP score went up a couple of points. Learn from it and turnaround and kick Xavier's a$$.
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Very frustrating game to lose. Officiating was fine other than the blown call when the ball went off the foot of the Butler guy. It came down to Baldwin completely taking over and Butler hardly missing a free throw. If Baldwin is human for the last 10 minutes and even misses one or two more shots, we win. If Butler doesn't shoot like 90% from the line, we probably win. So give them credit. They had to play perfect basketball to pull it out and they did.
This all being said, my main issues are pretty much wash, rinse, & repeat from prior issues.
1. Howard insisting on being the reason we win or lose instead of it being a team win or loss. I put the blame on him & Wojo. He does not know when to stop chucking on games he doesn't have it. That's on him during the game, and on Wojo for not correcting it AT ALL in 3.5 years. For anyone who watched it, I thought the postgame comments about this from FS1 were fair and spot on. If I'm the guy who was WIDE OPEN in the corner while Markus is hoisting a contested 3 in front of two defenders several feet behind the line with 10 seconds left and us down one, I'm getting on the bus annoyed after this game. I appreciate what Markus can do and all he does. Full stop. But find the open man especially on a night when you didn't have it. Out other guys to me have proven to be a solid supporting cast. Use them!
2. Not even attempting to change defenses on Butler when Baldwin couldn't be stopped was an exercise in maximum stubbornness. No attempt to flash double like they did against Markus. No switch to zone or box & 1. No big guys hedging hard out off the screen instead of playing behind deep in the lane. NOTHING. Baldwin got in a grove, was completely comfortable, and we did nothing to try to make him uncomfortable. That is bad coaching. We didn't lose to Butler tonight. We lost to Baldwin and we let it happen.
3. While it didn't cost us the game at the time, fouling with 20 seconds left in a tie game is beyond embarrassing. How on earth can you not know the game situation. It is baffling and not to mention it's literally one of the most important aspects of being a coach. At first I was screaming at Bailey (who I thought overall played well). But it sounds like Wojo told him to foul.
Maybe it's because I'm such a fan that it feels more painful when we lose, but dang I hate the way we lose. Either blowout losses or games that we should have won but gave away it appears.
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In the end, this is one of the reasons why I love road games against tough opponents. Low risk, high reward. You win and it does wonders for your tournament resume. You lose and the committee doesn't bat an eye. Just checked KenPom and our KP score went up a couple of points. Learn from it and turnaround and kick Xavier's a$$.
Mostly agree with that post, but I think winning this one really could have altered the narrative for the season. Win last night and we're ranked Monday. The next 3 are imminently winnable which would have put us 8-3 on a 7 game streak going into @Nova. At that point we're talking about playing for a protected seed.
Instead, we lose another one we "should" lose, which keeps us on track for the 9-9 record we "should" have. Which keeps us on track for a 10 seed we "should" get and a first round exit - keeping Tower and all the other mediojos happy "Look, consecutive NCAA bids, progress!"
Hopefully we can re-group, win @X and start the momentum again. But this could have been a statement victory - and the fact that we were so close makes it brutal.
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Very frustrating game to lose. Officiating was fine other than the blown call when the ball went off the foot of the Butler guy. It came down to Baldwin completely taking over and Butler hardly missing a free throw. If Baldwin is human for the last 10 minutes and even misses one or two more shots, we win. If Butler doesn't shoot like 90% from the line, we probably win. So give them credit. They had to play perfect basketball to pull it out and they did.
This all being said, my main issues are pretty much wash, rinse, & repeat from prior issues.
1. Howard insisting on being the reason we win or lose instead of it being a team win or loss. I put the blame on him & Wojo. He does not know when to stop chucking on games he doesn't have it. That's on him during the game, and on Wojo for not correcting it AT ALL in 3.5 years. For anyone who watched it, I thought the postgame comments about this from FS1 were fair and spot on. If I'm the guy who was WIDE OPEN in the corner while Markus is hoisting a contested 3 in front of two defenders several feet behind the line with 10 seconds left and us down one, I'm getting on the bus annoyed after this game. I appreciate what Markus can do and all he does. Full stop. But find the open man especially on a night when you didn't have it. Out other guys to me have proven to be a solid supporting cast. Use them!
2. Not even attempting to change defenses on Butler when Baldwin couldn't be stopped was an exercise in maximum stubbornness. No attempt to flash double like they did against Markus. No switch to zone or box & 1. No big guys hedging hard out off the screen instead of playing behind deep in the lane. NOTHING. Baldwin got in a grove, was completely comfortable, and we did nothing to try to make him uncomfortable. That is bad coaching. We didn't lose to Butler tonight. We lost to Baldwin and we let it happen.
3. While it didn't cost us the game at the time, fouling with 20 seconds left in a tie game is beyond embarrassing. How on earth can you not know the game situation. It is baffling and not to mention it's literally one of the most important aspects of being a coach. At first I was screaming at Bailey (who I thought overall played well). But it sounds like Wojo told him to foul.
Maybe it's because I'm such a fan that it feels more painful when we lose, but dang I hate the way we lose. Either blowout losses or games that we should have won but gave away it appears.
Great post.
The loss sucked, but I'd much much rather go out like this than getting the doors blown off like the Maryland game.
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Not your best work Tower. Blaming the refs, blaming Brendan, not having Greg. Lots of excuses. Refereeing was NOT bad at all, particularly is being the road team. Before we went into foul mode, fouls were 16-14, with us being called for two more. Hell, Theo didn’t even get in foul trouble tonight. How often does that happen?
It was a great Big East game. A battle. Fun to watch. And I felt refs did a great job...were long stretches of uninterrupted play.
I'll try to manage my shame.
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1. Hinkle is a house of horrors. Kudos to the Butler crowd. Certainly influenced some calls. MU fans, take notice.
2. After a few good games, Jayce wasn't great tonight. Theo was a beast. And played big minutes without fouling out. But you have to secure defensive rebounds in overtime.
3. I mentioned it elsewhere, but for a NPOY candidate, Markus does not get a proportionate number of calls. He made one basket after getting knocked to the ground on that lay up. (no call) And he looked uncomfortable after that. Wasn't close on his shots. Never went to the hoop again. I hope there wasn't a concussion.
4. Baldwin is a winner. It isn't like he was making uncontested shots. Pick, roll, pull up. Iso, spin, turnaround. He went full hero ball and it worked.
5. Koby is terrible. Until he does that last second 3 thing. And those 3's in overtime thing. Maybe he has been thinking too much.
6. Butler didn't foul when up 3. Unless they wanted to and the player didn't execute.
7. Did Bailey lose track of the clock and score, or was fouling while tied with 20 seconds left part of a plan? Would like to hear the answer to that.
8. Symir looked like a freshman on defense tonight. Reminded me of Martin and Elliott a couple of years ago.
9. The turning point of the game came when Markus had the ball literally wrestled away from him without a call and then made a lay up, took an elbow to the head and was knocked to the ground without a call. Markus made one shot the rest of the way. Meanwhile, it energized Baldwin. And he took over.
10. Need to quit missing lay ups. Sacar. Koby.
11. This one hurt. Would have been a nice road win. But MU doesn't suck, the season isn't over, and Wojo shouldn't be fired. The team sure as crap didn't quit.
11. Greg would have been useful tonight.
12. Woops. Forgot this one:WOJO CANT COACH. WE NEED TO HIRE AN EXPERIENCED COACH AT SAY 2 MILLION A YEAR TO HELP WOJO WITH HIS IN GAME MANAGEMENT. WOJO JUST DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH RESOURCES. DID I MENTION THAT WOJO CANT COACH.
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12. Woops. Forgot this one:WOJO CANT COACH. WE NEED TO HIRE AN EXPERIENCED COACH AT SAY 2 MILLION A YEAR TO HELP WOJO WITH HIS IN GAME MANAGEMENT. WOJO JUST DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH RESOURCES. DID I MENTION THAT WOJO CANT COACH.
Woops. Forgot one more. Once again Wojo had his ass handed to him by a coach with much less experience. But I love the Wojo man.
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Very frustrating game to lose. Officiating was fine other than the blown call when the ball went off the foot of the Butler guy. It came down to Baldwin completely taking over and Butler hardly missing a free throw. If Baldwin is human for the last 10 minutes and even misses one or two more shots, we win. If Butler doesn't shoot like 90% from the line, we probably win. So give them credit. They had to play perfect basketball to pull it out and they did.
This all being said, my main issues are pretty much wash, rinse, & repeat from prior issues.
1. Howard insisting on being the reason we win or lose instead of it being a team win or loss. I put the blame on him & Wojo. He does not know when to stop chucking on games he doesn't have it. That's on him during the game, and on Wojo for not correcting it AT ALL in 3.5 years. For anyone who watched it, I thought the postgame comments about this from FS1 were fair and spot on. If I'm the guy who was WIDE OPEN in the corner while Markus is hoisting a contested 3 in front of two defenders several feet behind the line with 10 seconds left and us down one, I'm getting on the bus annoyed after this game. I appreciate what Markus can do and all he does. Full stop. But find the open man especially on a night when you didn't have it. Out other guys to me have proven to be a solid supporting cast. Use them!
2. Not even attempting to change defenses on Butler when Baldwin couldn't be stopped was an exercise in maximum stubbornness. No attempt to flash double like they did against Markus. No switch to zone or box & 1. No big guys hedging hard out off the screen instead of playing behind deep in the lane. NOTHING. Baldwin got in a grove, was completely comfortable, and we did nothing to try to make him uncomfortable. That is bad coaching. We didn't lose to Butler tonight. We lost to Baldwin and we let it happen.
3. While it didn't cost us the game at the time, fouling with 20 seconds left in a tie game is beyond embarrassing. How on earth can you not know the game situation. It is baffling and not to mention it's literally one of the most important aspects of being a coach. At first I was screaming at Bailey (who I thought overall played well). But it sounds like Wojo told him to foul.
Maybe it's because I'm such a fan that it feels more painful when we lose, but dang I hate the way we lose. Either blowout losses or games that we should have won but gave away it appears.
well put
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3. While it didn't cost us the game at the time, fouling with 20 seconds left in a tie game is beyond embarrassing. How on earth can you not know the game situation. It is baffling and not to mention it's literally one of the most important aspects of being a coach. At first I was screaming at Bailey (who I thought overall played well). But it sounds like Wojo told him to foul.
You don't see it often, but I think there are legitimate strategically reasons to foul. If we let the play continue, Baldwin sucks the clock down to 3 seconds, shoots, and kills us at the buzzer, especially with the way he was playing. Wojo bet on his offense to get the ball back and score. And in the end he was right.
It's like an NFL coach calling TO to make the other team can't run the clock all the way down before kicking the go ahead field goal.
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You don't see it often, but I think there are legitimate strategically reasons to foul. If we let the play continue, Baldwin sucks the clock down to 3 seconds, shoots, and kills us at the buzzer, especially with the way he was playing. Wojo bet on his offense to get the ball back and score. And in the end he was right.
It's like an NFL coach calling TO to make the other team can't run the clock all the way down before kicking the go ahead field goal.
...or Wojo incorrectly thought MU was down 2 as he stated.
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You don't see it often, but I think there are legitimate strategically reasons to foul. If we let the play continue, Baldwin sucks the clock down to 3 seconds, shoots, and kills us at the buzzer, especially with the way he was playing. Wojo bet on his offense to get the ball back and score. And in the end he was right.
It's like an NFL coach calling TO to make the other team can't run the clock all the way down before kicking the go ahead field goal.
But that's not what happened. Wojo admitted he made a mistake and forgot the score. This wasn't some sort of three dimensional chess coaching move.
And it's not a good move at all. Make adjustments and bet on your defense. Seriously have you EVER seen a coach do that in a tie game?
Making anaolgies to other sports don't work because...they're other sports.
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They were running sets. Remember those corner 3's and point blank lay ups (some of which were missed)? Wojo put the ball in the hands of the leading scorer in college basketball, a preseason first team all american, the returning BEPOY, a player who is (unless he goes into concussion protocol) probably going to finish in the top 25 of all time scorers in D1 basketball. And Markus didn't deliver.
This is all great, good summary.
HOWEVER, Markus Howard isn’t a winner and cannot hit a game winning shot.
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Cancel the rest of the season. Off with their heads
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Check Markus's numbers from the 11:34 minute on. Tell me he wasn't affected.
You are a great excuse maker. First of all there wasn't much contact at all on that Howard layup even though he took a hard fall. Basketball is a physical game. The npoy candidate should be able to take some contact and still play an effective game. He was moving up and down the court well so it wasn't a physical issue. How in the hell is he going to play in the nba. The problem was more about shot selection and fatigue.
If you want people to stop saying wojo should go then stop saying the team is great and wojo should stay all the time after every game.
As far as the game, I thought the team played well against a good team on the road at a tough place to play. The concern is they folded at the end when they had control of the game. That shouldn't happen with a 6th year head coach and when the leaders on the team are seniors. Losing this game is not a shame, the way they lost is. There is enough talent on this team to bounce back. I hope they do.
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I'm sure MU was gassed. They basically played six guys in an OT game. It would be nice to have a roster with 13 scholarship players.
Brother Afroman, my thought exactly. Some thoughts:
1) We played about 37 minutes of great basketball in a close game. But we were gassed by the end of the game. You could see it in the poor ball handling. You could see it in the way shots were being missed -- just off the front of the rim. We could have used Greg and Ed Morrow last night big time.
2) What I saw, I still liked. The team found each other, pushed the ball around and made sure the open man shot. I was especially impressed in regulation when they calmly went down the floor with 8.5 seconds left and drained a "3". You can't coach that. It's leadership and commitment.
3) The lack of a foul when Markus was slammed to the floor and into a chair was concerning. The refs need to do better. I would concur Markus was not the same afterward. Some of the change probably was the aftereffect of the impact and some of it was Butler's defense that stuck to Markus so closely that I think they were inside his uniform.
4) I'm seeing a much improved team compared to the Creighton debacle. I said earlier in the year I wanted to Make Marquette Feared Again. I think others in the Big East are afraid of us.
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Some things. 1. I was wrong about the time of the shot to the head. 15:44. Mea Culpa. At which time Markus had 24 points and 6 assists. 2. I was 100% right about the shot to the head. I just watched it in real time and the replay. In real time, after Markus has been on the ground for a few seconds and his teammates are walking up to the ref with WTF looks on their faces, you clearly hear the ref say "He wasn't pushed." However, watching the replay, you clearly see Baddley, after trying for the chase down block, hit Markus in the head with his elbow on the follow through.
The next 20 minutes of game play saw Markus make one shot. I am sure it is just a coincidence.
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But that's not what happened. Wojo admitted he made a mistake and forgot the score. This wasn't some sort of three dimensional chess coaching move.
And it's not a good move at all. Make adjustments and bet on your defense. Seriously have you EVER seen a coach do that in a tie game?
Making anaolgies to other sports don't work because...they're other sports.
I made an argument similar to SaveOD last night and the strategy actually worked. I see good reasons for doing it. We got the ball back down one with 20 seconds to go, which I would prefer to being tied with the other team taking the last shot with our options being lose or OT.
However, the fact that it wasn't strategy at all and we did it because he didn't know the score is inexcusable, as is the fact that once again Markus rushed a well-defended 3 while double covered after we ran no offense and the fact that we hadn't already done something on defense to force Baldwin to face multiple defenders.
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You are a great excuse maker. First of all there wasn't much contact at all on that Howard layup even though he took a hard fall. Basketball is a physical game. The npoy candidate should be able to take some contact and still play an effective game. He was moving up and down the court well so it wasn't a physical issue. How in the hell is he going to play in the nba. The problem was more about shot selection and fatigue.
If you want people to stop saying wojo should go then stop saying the team is great and wojo should stay all the time after every game.
As far as the game, I thought the team played well against a good team on the road at a tough place to play. The concern is they folded at the end when they had control of the game. That shouldn't happen with a 6th year head coach and when the leaders on the team are seniors. Losing this game is not a shame, the way they lost is. There is enough talent on this team to bounce back. I hope they do.
Right now, this is a tournament team. Check any bracketology. Despite the Hausers leaving. Despite Ed leaving. Despite a number of injuries. I always thought a sign of success was being a tournament team. Clearly, I was misinformed.
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Some things. 1. I was wrong about the time of the shot to the head. 15:44. Mea Culpa. At which time Markus had 24 points and 6 assists. 2. I was 100% right about the shot to the head. I just watched it in real time and the replay. In real time, after Markus has been on the ground for a few seconds and his teammates are walking up to the ref with WTF looks on their faces, you clearly hear the ref say "He wasn't pushed." However, watching the replay, you clearly see Baddley, after trying for the chase down block, hit Markus in the head with his elbow on the follow through.
The next 20 minutes of game play saw Markus make one shot. I am sure it is just a coincidence.
There wasnt much contact. He hit his head on the chair mainly from his momentum. Even if I buy your premise of that particular play caused mh to suck the rest of the way, then that's weak from a player of his caliber. Like I said basketball is a physical game you have to be able to play through hits as long as you can physically. If he cant then he shouldn't have been in there.
Look I love Marcus. He played great most of the game and most of the season, but call it what it is he played like crap down the stretch and tried to force it too much.
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Right now, this is a tournament team. Check any bracketology. Despite the Hausers leaving. Despite Ed leaving. Despite a number of injuries. I always thought a sign of success was being a tournament team. Clearly, I was misinformed.
What in the hell does this have anything to do with my post. Did I say it wasnt a tournament team? What are u talking about.
Btw I thought the hausers leaving was going to make the team better. You know. More athletic, play as a team, other guys will develop.
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I have said he played terrible down the stretch. The difference is that I have drawn a line at that play. Prior to that play 24 points in 24 minutes. After that play 2 points in 20 minutes. And I have seen flagrants called for less elbow to head contact than that.
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Right now, this is a tournament team. Check any bracketology. Despite the Hausers leaving. Despite Ed leaving. Despite a number of injuries. I always thought a sign of success was being a tournament team. Clearly, I was misinformed.
In any given year 40-50% of the Power 6 teams make the field (Last year it was 47%). It is a nice accomplishment, but to me a good team is a team who gets there and has a chance to do damage, to get to the second weekend. I don't think we've had one of those teams yet under Wojo. This team seems to be improving, so maybe by tournament time this will be one of those teams. I hope so, but not quite seeing it yet.
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We play better when the entire team is contributing.
We've all seen MU win both ways, balance among the team, or Markus having to take over. But I agree the success potential is greater when more people are involved on offense, scoring, moving with and without the ball and involved playing with confidence.
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I prefer everyone involved. And last night Sacar went for 22, Brendan for 14, and Koby for 13. They picked up the slack when Markus stunk for the last 20 minutes. At times, it looked like they were using Markus as a decoy to eliminate weak side help while Sacar, Koby, and Bailey worked the strong side. This actually gives me hope for next year.
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I have said he played terrible down the stretch. The difference is that I have drawn a line at that play. Prior to that play 24 points in 24 minutes. After that play 2 points in 20 minutes. And I have seen flagrants called for less elbow to head contact than that.
I cant tell if he hit I'm or not, cant find a slow motion of the play. When they showed it last night in slow motion it didn't look like he made contact. It sure wasnt a flagrant he was going to block the ball. I agree with you he played terrible after that play the thing is he shouldn't have or then he shouldn't have been in. Look at some of his shots. Terrible shot selection and difficult shots. What does that have to with a physical basketball play. It's an excuse.
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Studio guy said it: still waiting for Markus to make his teammates better.
Not gonna happen, Markus isn’t that kind of player. And it’s going to be a problem come March.
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Announcers were then talking about all the things he does to make his teammates better. 6 assists in the first half. Taking away help and creating space for others.
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Studio guy said it: still waiting for Markus to make his teammates better.
Not gonna happen, Markus isn’t that kind of player. And it’s going to be a problem come March.
Butler game had 2 versions of Markus - Selfish and the Distributor.
MU way more potent when MH is distributing and more fun to watch.
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Studio guy said it: still waiting for Markus to make his teammates better.
Not gonna happen, Markus isn’t that kind of player. And it’s going to be a problem come March.
It was weird, the studio crew had Markus selfishness as their announcing game plan from the start. Before the game when talking about Anim they said Howard does not make his teammates better and Donny Marshall basically said the Hausers left because of his ball dominance. Then they backtracked a touch daying it was a fine line when you are such a good scorer etc. They mentioned it again at halftime and said they should take him off the ball and though I did not watch the post game, from the comments here they were on the topic again.
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MU way more potent when MH is distributing and more fun to watch.
Hey, we agree on something.
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Hey, we agree on something.
I think we also agree that we both want to see MU succeed. We just go about it in different manners. My way is the Bill Belichick way. Nothing is good until it's perfect. I'm a total Red Ass.
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I did take note when Lavin said MU was one trick pony. Howard has to make better decisions and make other guys better. I had turned the corner a tad after St. John game, but I find him to be frustrating to watch at times.
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I did take note when Lavin said MU was one trick pony. Howard has to make better decisions and make other guys better. I had turned the corner a tad after St. John game, but I find him to be frustrating to watch at times.
I've been saying it since his sophomore season. He is alternatively thrilling and infuriating to watch. There is nothing more fun to watch than when he gets on a roll and goes into video game mode. There is nothing more frustrating to watch than when he has stretches like the end of the game last night. Even though he stopped scoring after getting hit on the head, he was still helping by drawing attention and letting the other guys get theirs. But his taking back over at the end was very costly, and frankly, I think he does that because that is what Wojo wants him to do.
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Yeah, I got the sense that Wojo handed him the ball with about 3 minutes to go and said get me a win.
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Announcers were then talking about all the things he does to make his teammates better. 6 assists in the first half. Taking away help and creating space for others.
How about taking away help and then shooting thru 6-8 outstretched arms, at key moments in the game ? 6 assists yesterday doesn’t mean he’s a distributor. Him driving and finding Sacar for a baseline 3 is the exception, not the rule. Listen, I get it. He’s a special scorer, we will never see this again at MU probably in our lifetimes. I’m glad he’s here, but I’m not seeing a deep run in March. That’s the direction Wojo decided to take this team. Live and die w Markus Howard.
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CTWarrior
Problem with me is that the video game mode was not always needed. The Buffalo game last year was turning point for me. Great performance, but at what expense?
I never have got why a guy shooting on every possession for a period of time is good basketball. Furthermore, how many possessions has he taken 2,3 or 4 shots?
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I did take note when Lavin said MU was one trick pony. Howard has to make better decisions and make other guys better. I had turned the corner a tad after St. John game, but I find him to be frustrating to watch at times.
Howard is a phenomenal player when he gets others involved and doesn't force it. If he is going off for 40 or 50 it is fun to watch, but I'm not sure it is the best for the team. The thing is Wojo has had 3.5 years to coach him to be an effective team player with varied success.
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hairy
I have read about the greatness of Howard for two year years on here and cannot completely disagree, but I have never seen a great player at MU being more polarizing to fanbase. He is a great scorer with a very long leash and that is it to me.
After last season I noted a lack of system in the Wojo era and I still think only system is having a chucker. Starter with Carlino and the trend has continued. Hard to be consistent team when that is your game plan.
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I agree that Markus has a long leash, perhaps too long. I disagree that Wojo doesn't have a system. I have seen too many nice plays drawn up that get lay ups for JjJ, Haanif, Sacar (when he chooses to go to the basket), Koby. Last night, that strong side three man game with Theo setting the high pick, Koby driving and Sacar set up in the corner while Markus was parked on the weak side preventing help was a really nice look. As the season has gone on, I have been noticing much better picks, more players using them, high low pick action, Markus setting picks, etc. It actually fills me with hope for next year, assuming the freshmen can pick it up. Other than Markus in the last 3 minutes of regulation, there were very few bad shots last night. MU got all the looks they wanted and missed some really easy ones. Koby and Sacar simply have to get better at finishing at the rim and not dodging contact.
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hairy
I have read about the greatness of Howard for two year years on here and cannot completely disagree, but I have never seen a great player at MU being more polarizing to fanbase. He is a great scorer with a very long leash and that is it to me.
After last season I noted a lack of system in the Wojo era and I still think only system is having a chucker. Starter with Carlino and the trend has continued. Hard to be consistent team when that is your game plan.
On the flipside, it makes appealing to top recruits who want to be showcased. If Wojo could instill discipline in the backcourt, you'd have 2x more conference wins this year + Howard would be a better overall player. It's just sad to see that Discipline is the issue. It's a very correctable trait, especially when you have a guy for almost 4 years. MH isn't some one and done here.
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Markus has hurt himself like Davison from UW with constant flopping. Part of Markus’ layup motion is falling on the ground. I think it hurts his ability to get calls.
That being said, they should have reviewed him getting hit in the head. Although, Theo probably could have gotten an F1 for poking the guy in the eye.
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I can still see an open Sam Hauser waving his hands vs SH as Markus throws up another missed shot at the end. You can almost trace his decision to transfer back to that sequence.
For as great as Howard is, and his greatness is undeniable, he’s not clutch. The shot he took considering score and time was inexcusable. Wojo still hasn’t figured out how to effectively coach offense in end of game situations
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1. Howard insisting on being the reason we win or lose instead of it being a team win or loss. I put the blame on him & Wojo. He does not know when to stop chucking on games he doesn't have it. That's on him during the game, and on Wojo for not correcting it AT ALL in 3.5 years. For anyone who watched it, I thought the postgame comments about this from FS1 were fair and spot on. If I'm the guy who was WIDE OPEN in the corner while Markus is hoisting a contested 3 in front of two defenders several feet behind the line with 10 seconds left and us down one, I'm getting on the bus annoyed after this game.
Or writing a letter and entering my name in the transfer portal.
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I can still see an open Sam Hauser waving his hands vs SH as Markus throws up another missed shot at the end. You can almost trace his decision to transfer back to that sequence.
For as great as Howard is, and his greatness is undeniable, he’s not clutch. The shot he took considering score and time was inexcusable. Wojo still hasn’t figured out how to effectively coach offense in end of game situations
I sadly agree. He’s actually the 4th player on the roster that I’d want with the last shot. The shot Howard took at the end of regulation was inexcusable. It was pretty similar to the seton hall shot but even had more time this time to make a play.
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It was weird, the studio crew had Markus selfishness as their announcing game plan from the start. Before the game when talking about Anim they said Howard does not make his teammates better and Donny Marshall basically said the Hausers left because of his ball dominance. Then they backtracked a touch daying it was a fine line when you are such a good scorer etc. They mentioned it again at halftime and said they should take him off the ball and though I did not watch the post game, from the comments here they were on the topic again.
We better send the posse over to the studio so they can start seeing the light.
In all seriousness it was weird and Marshall seemed to shock himself that it all came out that way. It does however tell a you a little bit about what other coaches are saying.
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hairy
I have read about the greatness of Howard for two year years on here and cannot completely disagree, but I have never seensym a great player at MU being more polarizing to fanbase. He is a great scorer with a very long leash and that is it to me.
After last season I noted a lack of system in the Wojo era and I still think only system is having a chucker. Starter with Carlino and the trend has continued. Hard to be consistent team when that is your game plan.
Let’s talk about this a little as I was going to bring this up the other day. Carlino, Henry, Katin, Rowsey, and Howard were all chucker first recruits. When we use the term chucker, it has a negative slang overtone, but what we are really saying is that they were high usage (shots) at some point in their careers. All but Henry were PGs at some point (Katin became more of a shooting guard/forward), and Henry was a point forward essentially.
Here is where we disagree: It is intentionally his system to have a star player/shooter...and MU has indeed had some of its most efficient offenses in its history and in the country running the four out.
Here is where we agree: MU has had more team success when Wojo has scaled back and diversified the offense a bit away from these shooters, specifically Katin and Rowsey...and a bit when Sam was here. MU is 2-5 in Pomeroy A games this season, and Markus has been sub-100 Orating in every loss (with his always high usage).
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Some things. 1. I was wrong about the time of the shot to the head. 15:44...
The next 20 minutes of game play saw Markus make one shot. I am sure it is just a coincidence.
I had no problem with how Markus was playing from 15:44 to about 3:00. He missed some shots, sure, but they were in the flow of the game. That happens. It all changed when he decided go completely away from what was working in the last 3 games and 37 minutes and try to take over the game, for no apparent reason. That was just terrible decision making.
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Yup.
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I can still see an open Sam Hauser waving his hands vs SH as Markus throws up another missed shot at the end. You can almost trace his decision to transfer back to that sequence.
For as great as Howard is, and his greatness is undeniable, he’s not clutch. The shot he took considering score and time was inexcusable. Wojo still hasn’t figured out how to effectively coach offense in end of game situations
And that's exactly what Lavin was saying in the postgame show. I get that coaches want good shooters to keep shooting, but I'd like to see a few more "plan B" possessions from Markus when he's not feeling it. Passing up just a few more shots per game could have some big results.
There was a point late(ish?) in the second half when the announcers mentioned that Markus was x for 18, and I was thinking that seemed like a good pace. Something in the neighborhood of 20-24 shots is still a heavy workload but leaves something like 40 shots for the rest of the team. That seems like a reasonable balance.
At the end of the day, though, this all comes back to Wojo's inexperience and not being totally sure how to get the most out of his All American while still giving the supporting cast the opportunity to have important roles on a regular basis. He's put together some gameplans that do this really well, but too many late game scenarios rely solely on everyone else getting out of Markus' way.
I'd be curious to see usage rates for recent POY candidates, either conference or national, and compare to Markus this year. Is 40% noticeable higher than other stars?
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And that's exactly what Lavin was saying in the postgame show. I get that coaches want good shooters to keep shooting, but I'd like to see a few more "plan B" possessions from Markus when he's not feeling it. Passing up just a few more shots per game could have some big results.
There was a point late(ish?) in the second half when the announcers mentioned that Markus was x for 18, and I was thinking that seemed like a good pace. Something in the neighborhood of 20-24 shots is still a heavy workload but leaves something like 40 shots for the rest of the team. That seems like a reasonable balance.
At the end of the day, though, this all comes back to Wojo's inexperience and not being totally sure how to get the most out of his All American while still giving the supporting cast the opportunity to have important roles on a regular basis. He's put together some gameplans that do this really well, but too many late game scenarios rely solely on everyone else getting out of Markus' way.
I'd be curious to see usage rates for recent POY candidates, either conference or national, and compare to Markus this year. Is 40% noticeable higher than other stars?
Wojo inexperience? I am ok with Howard taking shots, lots of them even. He is the best shooter on the team The problem I have is taking bad shots or ruining the offense by trying to do it all himself.
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It was weird, the studio crew had Markus selfishness as their announcing game plan from the start. Before the game when talking about Anim they said Howard does not make his teammates better and Donny Marshall basically said the Hausers left because of his ball dominance. Then they backtracked a touch daying it was a fine line when you are such a good scorer etc. They mentioned it again at halftime and said they should take him off the ball and though I did not watch the post game, from the comments here they were on the topic again.
This was definitely a focus of their talking points before the game, at halftime, and afterward. Was interesting to listen to.
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Markus set a Big East "milestone" yesterday ... he missed 14 3PA, the most by a Big East player in a conference game since 2009.
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Too lazy to find the post asking if Markus has ever hit a clutch shot but...
One week ago today. Tie game. On the road. One minute left. Corner 3 against Georgetown.
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Too lazy to find the post asking if Markus has ever hit a clutch shot but...
One week ago today. Tie game. On the road. One minute left. Corner 3 against Georgetown.
Don't bother.
Markus has hit clutch shots throughout games to help Marquette win, including the one you mentioned. He was damaged goods against Butler in the second half and couldn't make it happen. Moving on to important things, like how Markus is feeling after getting his bell rung. Not that any Marquette fans really care.
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Don't bother.
Markus has hit clutch shots throughout games to help Marquette win, including the one you mentioned. He was damaged goods against Butler in the second half and couldn't make it happen. Moving on to important things, like how Markus is feeling after getting his bell rung. Not that any Marquette fans really care.
How was the Holiday Day Inn Express stay last night?
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Great thread title Tower.
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Don't bother.
Markus has hit clutch shots throughout games to help Marquette win, including the one you mentioned. He was damaged goods against Butler in the second half and couldn't make it happen. Moving on to important things, like how Markus is feeling after getting his bell rung. Not that any Marquette fans really care.
Hope he's doing well.
I'm incredibly disappointed MU blew that game but I try to have a big picture view of the season. I expected a 5-5 start and a 10-8 finish. We've lost one game I thought we would win. We won two I had as toss ups. Just about where I thought we'd be right now. Big game on Wednesday. X will shoot much better at home, I'd guess.
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Great thread title Tower.
Thanks.
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Thanks.
The Dead Milkmen reference is the only positive to last night.
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Was just re-watching the second half of the game and I can't get over how bad our last two looks at the basket were before the McEwen shot (attached the pictures). MU had one timeout left down one with 20 seconds and just settled for a long and quick Markus chuck.
McEwen really bailed Wojo out, because he completely froze at the end of the game.
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Ugh. I really didn't need to see those again.
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Too lazy to find the post asking if Markus has ever hit a clutch shot but...
One week ago today. Tie game. On the road. One minute left. Corner 3 against Georgetown.
He’s hit tons, but people will define clutch shot differently and so many have such BS agendas here it is sad.
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Was just re-watching the second half of the game and I can't get over how bad our last two looks at the basket were before the McEwen shot (attached the pictures). MU had one timeout left down one with 20 seconds and just settled for a long and quick Markus chuck.
McEwen really bailed Wojo out, because he completely froze at the end of the game.
You assume the players did what the coach wanted, doesn’t always happen.
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Was just re-watching the second half of the game and I can't get over how bad our last two looks at the basket were before the McEwen shot (attached the pictures). MU had one timeout left down one with 20 seconds and just settled for a long and quick Markus chuck.
McEwen really bailed Wojo out, because he completely froze at the end of the game.
where is the wide open man on Markus' shot that people were talking about?
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He’s hit tons, but people will define clutch shot differently and so many have such BS agendas here it is sad.
I looked at the play by play of almost every game I could find of Markus and he has hit some big shots. He had 2 threes in the Georgetown game just last week that broke a tie on both occasions late in the second half. Hit some big shots against Providence recently, etc. From what I saw, I don’t think there is really evidence to suggest he is either a clutch player or not a clutch player. Average clutchness I would say.
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plus the OT shot selection 🤦♂️
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I looked at the play by play of almost every game I could find of Markus and he has hit some big shots. He had 2 threes in the Georgetown game just last week that broke a tie on both occasions late in the second half. Hit some big shots against Providence recently, etc. From what I saw, I don’t think there is really evidence to suggest he is either a clutch player or not a clutch player. Average clutchness I would say.
Define clutch ness. Is every shot in OT clutch? If so, then o would look at our many OT games where he has hit shots just as a high level answer.
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He’s hit tons, but people will define clutch shot differently and so many have such BS agendas here it is sad.
Coming from the guy with more bs than most.
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I looked at the play by play of almost every game I could find of Markus and he has hit some big shots. He had 2 threes in the Georgetown game just last week that broke a tie on both occasions late in the second half. Hit some big shots against Providence recently, etc. From what I saw, I don’t think there is really evidence to suggest he is either a clutch player or not a clutch player. Average clutchness I would say.
Wait......you actually had to research whether Markus has made big shots in the past??
Okaaaaay........
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Tough loss. Falling in overtime when you've led most of the second half feels like your guts getting ripped out. However...
Marquette played better on Butler's home floor than any opponent besides Seton Hall (currently #11 in the Pomeroy rankings) this season. That includes #39 Minnesota (lost by 8 points), #36 Florida (lost by 12) and #30 Creighton (lost by 14). As a result, MU actually moved up in both the KenPom and NET rankings following the loss.
That's not an excuse. Just a simple fact. It's really hard to win on the road in the Big East. And Hinkle Fieldhouse is one of the toughest environments in all of college basketball. Marquette played well. Just not quite well enough to get the W.
Anyone who pins the future of the program on this one game isn't worth paying attention to.
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Was just re-watching the second half of the game and I can't get over how bad our last two looks at the basket were before the McEwen shot (attached the pictures). MU had one timeout left down one with 20 seconds and just settled for a long and quick Markus chuck.
McEwen really bailed Wojo out, because he completely froze at the end of the game.
I know I'm late to the party on this, but the bottom one (27 seconds left) is a terrible look, even for a great shooter. Three Butler players in his vicinity, two right in his grill. Nine seconds left on the the shot clock. Dump it off to Bailey there.
The top one (11 seconds) is even worse, in my opinion. Down one, you in no way need a three. Get something moving to the basket. All five of our players are outside the three-point line. Go toward the hoop, try to get a layup or foul, or kick it out to an open shooter after the defense has collapsed. Plenty of time to accomplish this while still leaving a couple seconds for an offensive rebound.
I'm a big fan of Markus, but I often get the sense that when the other team has a player get hot, he feels like he has to "match" them and starts playing hero ball. Player A starts making some big shots and then Markus feels he - and no one else - has to return the favor. If he's not hot at the same time, it makes for some bad shots and frustrating moments.
It was a tough loss but not the end of the world. On to the next one. Beat X on Wednesday and this won't sting as much.
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Also: I was at the game, my first time seeing a game at Hinkle. It's an old barn but pretty cool. Butler fans were mostly pretty friendly. I thought there was a decent amount of yellow sprinkled throughout the stands and even heard a We Are Marquette once, but it was quickly drowned out by the Butler band. It only holds half as many people as some stadiums but it's every bit as loud and intimidating as a much larger arena. Except for the end result, I had a really good time.