MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on January 21, 2020, 10:13:27 PM
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1. Mike Anderson can coach. Can you imagine his system with last year's players? They just refused to die.
2. Wojo says don't do X, it will let SJU back in the game. For the next 5 minutes, MU does exactly what Wojo warned them about. Maddening.
3. Cain was better than Bailey tonight. OK, foul trouble factored in, but Jamal played well and the minutes were allotted accordingly.
4. I like Jayce more every game.
5. Conversely, Theo blocked everything. Like Stan told him, apparently.
6. Sacar was a great sidekick tonight.
7. Yes, there were turnovers. SJU did what they do. On balance, I thought MU handled it decently. Solid B.
8. A three game winning streak. I guess the season isn't over.
9. Akanno is noticeably bigger than Elliott.
10. 32 points is ho hum.
11. Let's extend Butler's losing streak.
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Wins a win.
Now try and win 1 of the road games.
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Hope Elliot can play even a couple minutes in the game Friday, need the depth.
It is nice to let Symir get some run though but he is still raw; against Butler not sure MU can afford that. I think MU matches up well vs Butler. Hoping for a good game.
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10. WWE Backstage is coming up next.
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Win and a cover
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MU exceeded the expectations of Cheeks AND Vegas.
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Jayce, Jamal, and Sacar all played well. Koby and Markus were okay by their standards. Brendan struggled.
Win.
Onto the next.
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Jayce had one foul and 9 rebounds
Koby 9 rebounds
Theo had 6 blocks
Good team effort. Add Sacar with 21.
SJU. 6 for 9 from free throws. MU was 26 for 33. Ballgame.
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I would have put this in the game thread if I wasn't avoiding scoop during games, but Jamal after the no-look pass to Sacar for 3:
(https://y.yarn.co/baf2b710-4959-44a7-97d7-bccd522f73b9_text.gif)
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5. I wish Sacar could have hit a few more of those wide open threes. He may have had a career night if that were the case.
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According to Guru things are still not "ok". My question is when does it become "ok"?? 10 game win streak? When's it become good?
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5. I wish Sacar could have hit a few more of those wide open threes. He may have had a career night if that were the case.
Marquette missed 5 wide open 3's in the first 5 minutes and still came away with a 14 point win.
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Win. Cover. On to the next one. Friday will be tough but winable. If that happens this three game streak can very easily snowball into a seven game streak.
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Great win. We are better than St. John’s. Nice to cover the spread but should have beaten them by 25. First half poor shooting with wide open shots.
Lesson learned on Sacar: keep shooting wide open threes. If he doesn’t we lose.
Lets beat Butler and cement ourselves as a contender in this league. Go MU!
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5. I wish Sacar could have hit a few more of those wide open threes. He may have had a career night if that were the case.
Sacar was the man tonight. Felt this was one of his best games at MU. Very active on the glass and played strong D.
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. . .
SJU. 6 for 9 from free throws. MU was 26 for 33. Ballgame.
. . .
This is a key observation. Reminds me of Buzz ... Make more than they take...
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Anyone else think Marquette did the cancer awareness night solely to troll scoop?
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Anyone else think Marquette did the cancer awareness night solely to troll scoop?
I think we're all aware of Markus by this point in time.
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A lot of concerns early in the year about Markus having to play hero ball and he certainly is still carrying a heavy scoring load, but other guys are chipping in by doing things other than scoring.
Sacar has become a solid second option.
Koby hasn't looked for his shot as much anymore which is fine, but hit two more 3's tonight and the guy is a rbound machine.
Bailey has had some impressive scoring games and his rebounding has been a huge help this season.
Jamal has lost some playing time, but tonight when needed, he stepped up with 8 and 5.
Jayce with 2 and 9 and has become a beast on the boards
Theo with 5 rebounds and 6 blocks.
Everyone is contributing in their own way and that is why we are winning.
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Sacar was the man tonight. Felt this was one of his best games at MU. Very active on the glass and played strong D.
Yep...a few more wide open 3s go down and it would have undoubtedly been his best. He played strong tonight.
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10. Sneakiest 32 ever.
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A lot of concerns early in the year about Markus having to play hero ball and he certainly is still carrying a heavy scoring load, but other guys are chipping in by doing things other than scoring.
Sacar has become a solid second option.
Koby hasn't looked for his shot as much anymore which is fine, but hit two more 3's tonight and the guy is a rbound machine.
Bailey has had some impressive scoring games and his rebounding has been a huge help this season.
Jamal has lost some playing time, but tonight when needed, he stepped up with 8 and 5.
Jayce with 2 and 9 and has become a beast on the boards
Theo with 5 rebounds and 6 blocks.
Everyone is contributing in their own way and that is why we are winning.
This definitely shows the "team" part here. So good. Fun game
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Three straight games where, while Markus got his points, everyone had key contributions. Nice game from Jamal with Bailey in foul trouble. Two-headed center > three-headed center.
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Free throws do matta.
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MU exceeded the expectations of Cheeks AND Vegas.
I said I hated this game...I don’t recall saying we would lose....
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Good game defensively by Theo, but had a great pass to him under the basket, stripped easily. Is this due to the thumb injury?
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I remember after the SH game Wojo said something like " it wasn't really a 14 point loss"
After this game I expect he will say it wasn't really a 14 point win.
Some would call 14 points in either case a blowout, but it sure didn't feel like a blowout in either game to me. I guess there are multiple ways to win and lose by 14. Who knew???
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Dig it!!
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We need something good to happen these next two games.
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I remember after the SH game Wojo said something like " it wasn't really a 14 point loss"
After this game I expect he will say it wasn't really a 14 point win.
Some would call 14 points in either case a blowout, but it sure didn't feel like a blowout in either game to me. I guess there are multiple ways to win and lose by 14. Who knew???
Awesome post. Keep it up!
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Is the extent of Elliott's injury known or any estimate of how much longer he'll be out?
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All that effen angst about us simply having to go 3-0 against X, GT and StJ ... all the pre-whining ... all the implied Wojo-better-win-or-else statements ... what a lot of wasted energy.
Bailey had his least effective game in a bit, just seemed a little out of it. And even he had a couple nice moments. Very solid contributions from everybody else who played before garbage time.
We definitely got the better end from the officiating crew tonight. I can just imagine Scoopers -- including me -- if a Warrior had gotten called for a foul on something like Markus' 5-point play. Nothing wrong with a little home cookin' ... when we're the home team!
From next-to-last place to 4th place in less than a week's time.
We Are Marquette!
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Free throws do matta.
Getting to the free throw line? Absolutely.
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All that effen angst about us simply having to go 3-0 against X, GT and StJ ... all the pre-whining ... all the implied Wojo-better-win-or-else statements ... what a lot of wasted energy.
Bailey had his least effective game in a bit, just seemed a little out of it. And even he had a couple nice moments. Very solid contributions from everybody else who played before garbage time.
We definitely got the better end from the officiating crew tonight. I can just imagine Scoopers -- including me -- if a Warrior had gotten called for a foul on something like Markus' 5-point play. Nothing wrong with a little home cookin' ... when we're the home team!
From next-to-last place to 4th place in less than a week's time.
We Are Marquette!
Are you suggesting that Markus wasn’t fouled on his 5 point play? Very clear he was.
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Is the extent of Elliott's injury known or any estimate of how much longer he'll be out?
It's not, but I have to think it's probably still weeks at this point.
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According to Guru things are still not "ok". My question is when does it become "ok"?? 10 game win streak? When's it become good?
When they STOP losing to crap opponents(like Providence) at home. Just because MU won these last 3(all games they were expected to win..I don't give a damn what vegas says) doesn't mean everything is okay. Let's see how they do in these next two road tests and get back to me then. Playing better?? Sure...but they didn't exactly play who's who of CBB in these last 3. That's the reality..just trying to make sure people understand that they did EXACTLY what everyone should have expected them to do these last 3...they still have to make up for the PC game somewhere.
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Not quite as vitriolic as guru, but basically we're just to be back to where we should be. But no real reason to get too excited about meeting expectations.
Friday's the first chance in a while for this team to get above expectations. Hopefully they do.
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All that effen angst about us simply having to go 3-0 against X, GT and StJ ... all the pre-whining ... all the implied Wojo-better-win-or-else statements ... what a lot of wasted energy.
Bailey had his least effective game in a bit, just seemed a little out of it. And even he had a couple nice moments. Very solid contributions from everybody else who played before garbage time.
We definitely got the better end from the officiating crew tonight. I can just imagine Scoopers -- including me -- if a Warrior had gotten called for a foul on something like Markus' 5-point play. Nothing wrong with a little home cookin' ... when we're the home team!
From next-to-last place to 4th place in less than a week's time.
We Are Marquette!
Bailey looked very tentative and lacked confidence on his 3s. Seemed like he was steering it rather than his normal fluid release. Nice to see him contribute with some rebounds and that great drive and finish. Would be so nice to have Koby and Bailey find more consistency and confidence outside. We’d have quite a few pretty reliable options to complement Howard and make the defense pay if they sell out on stopping Howard.
Sure hope Greg can come back before long too. Doesn’t seem to be moving very well in the boot.
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Are you suggesting that Markus wasn’t fouled on his 5 point play? Very clear he was.
I only saw one quick replay. To me, it looked borderline -- Rutherford got a piece of the ball and, as his momentum continued, might have touched Markus' wrist. We've all seen similar not called dozens of times. Maybe another replay was shown in which it was more obvious; if so, I missed it. And the T seemed awfully quick, though maybe Rutherford said the magic word or something.
Just saying that if the exact same thing happened with Sacar defending Powell in a game at SH, most of us would not be happy about SH's home cookin'.
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I thought team played well and everyone made the best use of their particular strengths. Nice to get a win over a tough nosed team like The Johnnies.
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When they STOP losing to crap opponents(like Providence) at home. Just because MU won these last 3(all games they were expected to win..I don't give a damn what vegas says) doesn't mean everything is okay. Let's see how they do in these next two road tests and get back to me then. Playing better?? Sure...but they didn't exactly play who's who of CBB in these last 3. That's the reality..just trying to make sure people understand that they did EXACTLY what everyone should have expected them to do these last 3...they still have to make up for the PC game somewhere.
They did. Nova
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I only saw one quick replay. To me, it looked borderline -- Rutherford got a piece of the ball and, as his momentum continued, might have touched Markus' wrist. We've all seen similar not called dozens of times. Maybe another replay was shown in which it was more obvious; if so, I missed it.
I agree that it was close, but I still think the guy fouled him. I also believe that every first-team All-American in the history of the game would get that call. Every single time.
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Just because MU won these last 3(all games they were expected to win..I don't give a damn what vegas says) doesn't mean everything is okay.
LOL
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I only saw one quick replay. To me, it looked borderline -- Rutherford got a piece of the ball and, as his momentum continued, might have touched Markus' wrist. We've all seen similar not called dozens of times. Maybe another replay was shown in which it was more obvious; if so, I missed it. And the T seemed awfully quick, though maybe Rutherford said the magic word or something.
Just saying that if the exact same thing happened with Sacar defending Powell in a game at SH, most of us would not be happy about SH's home cookin'.
IMO, you couldn't see it very well from the replay that they showed, but I thought he came down into Markus' body. I agree that the touch on the wrist (if it was there at all) wasn't a foul, but I believe he landed going into Markus.
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Not quite as vitriolic as guru, but basically we're just to be back to where we should be. But no real reason to get too excited about meeting expectations.
Friday's the first chance in a while for this team to get above expectations. Hopefully they do.
That’s fair. I think we’d all be happier debating how we get to a 15-3 record rather than wondering if we can get to 10-8.
However, I think this was a big 3 game stretch for the team. We were 1-3 dropping a home game we should have won and not being very competitive in our 2 road games.
We came out and won two games comfortably at home and beat Georgetown on the road. They aren’t top tier teams, but it was big for us to be able to take care of business.
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I dont think he fouled Markus on the first play of the game. Although, the refs made up for that shortly thereafter, when he did foul Markus, and they swallowed their whistle.
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All that effen angst about us simply having to go 3-0 against X, GT and StJ ... all the pre-whining ... all the implied Wojo-better-win-or-else statements ... what a lot of wasted energy.
We kind of did have to go 3-0 in this stretch, otherwise it would of been an extremely deep hole to dig out of. These last 3 games was an easy of a stretch as we get in this year's Big East. Even a 2-1 record over our last 3 would of made it difficult to finish .500. I'm happy we won all 3. So yes there should of been angst. Next, we play Butler twice and at Villanova in our next 5 games. We have to win 2 out of our next 5 but 3 would put us in a good position.
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They did. Nova
Wrong...that was a home game. The only way you make up for a crap home loss(although you never TRULY can), is by stealing one on the road that you probably aren't expected to..like @ Nova. There aren't really many chances left on the schedule to steal one they maybe shouldn't...regardless of what people here think. @ Butler Friday night..Maybe, but with the way they are playing, like they were expected to. @ Nova would be the one I point to.
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When they STOP losing to crap opponents(like Providence) at home. Just because MU won these last 3(all games they were expected to win..I don't give a damn what vegas says) doesn't mean everything is okay. Let's see how they do in these next two road tests and get back to me then. Playing better?? Sure...but they didn't exactly play who's who of CBB in these last 3. That's the reality..just trying to make sure people understand that they did EXACTLY what everyone should have expected them to do these last 3...they still have to make up for the PC game somewhere.
I expected to win all 3 of those games, and we won them. Our Warriors are 9-1 at home, so we haven't lost to crap opponents -- plural -- at home this season. We lost 1 home game, by 1 point, in OT, to a conference rival that has a very good coach and several talented players. Oh, and BTW, that "crap opponent" beat Shaka -- Scoop's choice as Coach of the Century -- by 22 points.
I agree our last 3 wins weren't over the greats of the game. Nevertheless, those 3 have victories this season over West Virginia, Arizona, TCU, Missouri, UConn, Cincinnati and Texas, as well as numerous nail-biter losses. Any win is a good win, any conference win is worth celebrating.
Do you even watch or follow college basketball? Are you aware that Kentucky lost at home to Evansville; Duke lost at home to SF Austin; Virginia lost at home to South Carolina, Syracuse and NC State; UNC lost at home to Clemson for the first time in nearly 100 years; etc etc etc?
Those losses don't make it "OK" for our Warriors to lose at home, they are just a dose of reality: Teams lose at home sometimes -- even good teams, even some great teams, even bluebloods coached by Hall of Famers. That's college basketball today. If you are gonna lose your shyte every time your favorite team doesn't win a game, I worry about your long-term health.
For the life of me, guru, I don't know why you can't just enjoy a 3-game Big East winning streak.
Hey, you haven't answered the question I posed in a different thread about your favorite topic: expectations. Here it is again, edited and shortened:
Curious, guru ... we have 11 games left in the regular season. How many do you expect us to win?
I'll go first ...
Barring some catastrophic injury to a key player, I will go into each game expecting us to win it. And I mean it. I think we are good enough to win at Nova, at Butler, SH at home, etc, etc, and I will expect victories.
However, as I look at the big picture, I am realistic enough to know that we almost surely will not go 11-0. We will have a really bad shooting game, or we will turn the ball over too often, or we will miss a couple big FTs, or Wojo will mess up, or players won't execute a perfectly good play, or the refs will blow a game-changing call. Or -- and I know this is a particularly difficult concept for some fans, because it actually gives credit to the other well-paid coach and the other talented athletes -- the opponent simply will play really, really well against us.
But as I sit here today and look at this game and that game and the other game, in and of itself, I fully expect us to win.
And if we don't win, I will be ticked off ... but I will not be all "We might never win another game" ... "Koby is the worst" ... "Markus is a cancer" ... "Theo is bad at basketball" ... "We suck without the Hausers," etc. And I also will not be all "Fire Wojo!" ... partly because I don't think he should be fired, but also because I know he won't be fired, so it would be wasted energy.
Enjoy 3-game Big East winning streaks! We Are Marquette!!!
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Not quite as vitriolic as guru, but basically we're just to be back to where we should be. But no real reason to get too excited about meeting expectations.
Friday's the first chance in a while for this team to get above expectations. Hopefully they do.
You got it...although I personally think they are still 1-2 games below where they SHOULD be
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You got it...although I personally think they are still 1-2 games below where they SHOULD be
I think they're 3 games away from where they SHOULD be. Undefeated every year.
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And unscored on.
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I think they're 3 games away from where they SHOULD be. Undefeated every year.
We are talking about DAYTON, right?
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Thought we played a really good team game last night. Other than Brendan, feel each guy pretty much played to their peak potential/optimum skill set. Took care of business at home as we should have, but can't take any wins for granted.
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And unscored on.
(https://i.imgur.com/UjyoCok.jpg)
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When they STOP losing to crap opponents(like Providence) at home. Just because MU won these last 3(all games they were expected to win..I don't give a damn what vegas says) doesn't mean everything is okay. Let's see how they do in these next two road tests and get back to me then. Playing better?? Sure...but they didn't exactly play who's who of CBB in these last 3. That's the reality..just trying to make sure people understand that they did EXACTLY what everyone should have expected them to do these last 3...they still have to make up for the PC game somewhere.
You need to take a step back man. You invest wayyyyyy too much into a bunch of 18-22 year olds playing with a ball.
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I only saw one quick replay. To me, it looked borderline -- Rutherford got a piece of the ball and, as his momentum continued, might have touched Markus' wrist. We've all seen similar not called dozens of times. Maybe another replay was shown in which it was more obvious; if so, I missed it. And the T seemed awfully quick, though maybe Rutherford said the magic word or something.
Just saying that if the exact same thing happened with Sacar defending Powell in a game at SH, most of us would not be happy about SH's home cookin'.
the replay showed definite contact on shooting forearm that prevented full follow through on the release of the shot. Obvious contact that should be a foul every time.
He got a technical because he acted like a jag after every call against him.
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Good game by all.
Bailey played well despite some of his poor shooting. Had a few blocks I thought.
Next game up! Let’s win the ones we need to and try to steal a couple.
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(https://i.imgur.com/UjyoCok.jpg)
Nice! I can't tell if that's a PBR or Old Milwaukee.
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You got it...although I personally think they are still 1-2 games below where they SHOULD be
I know I'm going to regret this but what is the other game aside from Providence that they "should" have won? Yes, we've gotten our butts kicked a few times, which is extremely frustrating, but losses on the road to Wisconsin, Creighton and Seton Hall and a neutral court loss to Maryland are hardly unexpected.
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I think they're 3 games away from where they SHOULD be. Undefeated every year.
Responses like this are ridiculous, unfortunately all too common here. Your expectations are your expectations, someone else's are someone else's and mine are mine. Just because you may not have the same, doesn't mean mine are wrong. In fact, I would say, by and large(there are others here), my expectations are reasonable, whereas most others are too low. But that's what makes it different and nothing wrong with that.
Listen, let me be perfectly clear...MY expectations(not yours or anyone else's) are that they keep the losing at home to a minimum as in very infrequently, and that they don't lose to teams they should beat. Period. That's it. it starts with that. Very minimal expectations. I don't give a damn what else happens around college BB. It is completely irrelevant to me. I expect more out of MU.
People say all the time "well look what else is happening around CBB" or "so and so just lost at home to xxx". So if a bunch of your buddies go jump off a bridge, should you go do it to?? Or if you do something you aren't supposed to and when asked why, is the response going to be "well, look at what so and so did! Everyone else is doing it, why can't I"??
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I know I'm going to regret this but what is the other game aside from Providence that they "should" have won? Yes, we've gotten our butts kicked a few times, which is extremely frustrating, but losses on the road to Wisconsin, Creighton and Seton Hall and a neutral court loss to Maryland are hardly unexpected.
Certainly should NOT have lost to UW, and the Creighton loss if iffy to me. Going in really didn't think they would lose that game. Certainly didn't expect them to get their doors blown off.
Maryland...ok, and maybe YOU and others EXPECTED to lose to Creighton and UW on the road..I did not. I still will never understand that whole "expect(ed)" to lose that game mentality. I don't know if it's a way for people to somewhat feel like it was okay after they lose, or what the deal is with it. But to me you should never EXPECT to lose a game. understand that yes it COULD happen on any given day, but to expect it?? To me, that's backwards.
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Things must be going pretty well if Sacar scores 21 points (tied for second-most of his career) while shooting 4-11 from beyond the arc (36.4%, better than Markus) and fans are hoping he could hit a "few more" open threes.
Three straight solid team efforts. Well done. But Marquette faces one of the toughest stretches of the season during the next 5 games (rankings and projected win percentages per KenPom):
@ #15 Butler (29%)
@ #59 Xavier (50%)
#54 DePaul (72%)
#15 Butler (54%)
@ #19 Villanova (34%)
Three road games. (Villanova is undefeated at home this season, Butler's only home loss is against #11 Seton Hall.) Three games against teams ranked in the NET Top 20. A tremendous challenge, for sure. But also a tremendous opportunity.
A 2-3 record won't be the end of the world, but would put us at 16-8 (6-6 in the Big East) -- right back in the middle of the pack, with work to do just to make the NCAA tournament.
Go 3-2 and we're 17-7 (7-5), which essentially maintains the status quo. We'd still be among the top 4 teams in the Big East with an outside chance at a conference title, looking ahead to a likely NCAA seed somewhere in the 6 to 8 range.
If MU manages to go 4-1, that would be a big statement. We'd be 18-6 (8-4 in the Big East) with at least 3 wins against Top 20 teams -- which would help us climb the conference standings, significantly improve our NET ranking and put us in the running for a higher seed.
Whatever the outcome, we should learn a lot about this team in the next few weeks.
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Some thoughts about last night:
1) I was impressed by the way every time we were challenged, we rose to the occasion. When St. John's closed the gap to two points in the second half, we went on a 7-0 run. We were stirred but not shaken. That's a credit to our senior and junior leadership.
2) We found the open man throughout the game. Yes, the shots didn't always go down and Yes, Markus had an unworldly amount of points, but the passing was generally crisp and the open guy shot. That's good coaching and something that comes with patience and court-smarts. Way to go Wojo!
3) Theo, could you please catch the ball? And, while you are at it, you and Jayce need to stop dribbling the ball when you get it inside. You guys are beasts. Take it to the basket and shove your guy down the hole with the ball if you have to. But everytime you put it on the floor, you get it batted away! Learn, dudes, learn!
4) Uh, Theo, your defense was spectacular!
5) That 2-3 zone at the end of the first half was masterful. The Johnnies had no clue what was coming! Again, good coaching and excellent scouting.
6) Loved the progression in reduced turnovers. That was their key to the game. We've come a long way since early in the season.
All told, I think the team is where we thought it would be right now. Like most posters, I was disappointed by Providence but delighted by Villanova. We beat that mangie mongrel down in Indianapolis on Friday and we'll be in great shape.
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And the T seemed awfully quick, though maybe Rutherford said the magic word or something.
After the initial foul, Rutherford ran halfway down the court howling in protest. Thought the technical was entirely appropriate. There will always be questionable calls; that's part of the game. As a senior, Rutherford should know this. His reaction was waaayyyy overblown. I didn't hear it from where I was sitting, but chances are he also said something the ref found objectionable.
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After the initial foul, Rutherford ran halfway down the court howling in protest. Thought the technical was entirely appropriate. There will always be questionable calls; that's part of the game. As a senior, Rutherford should know this. His reaction was waaayyyy overblown. I didn't hear it from where I was sitting, but chances are he also said something the ref found objectionable.
Yea. I forget if it’s college or NBA, but thought running away demonstratively was an automatic T.
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Yea. I forget if it’s college or NBA, but thought running away demonstratively was an automatic T.
Must not be college or Wisconsin would never finish a game due to all their players being DQ’ed after multiple technicals. ;D
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7. Yes, there were turnovers. SJU did what they do. On balance, I thought MU handled it decently. Solid B.
This is about the only point I disagree with you on, Tower.
I'll give St. John's credit for getting their hands on the ball. But they were also overcommitting on the double-team -- either on the perimeter or in the post -- and MU was consistently slow to recognize it and move the ball to the open man. (And there was always someone who was wide open.)
I'd like to have seen more plays like Markus made late in the second half when he drew at least four defenders on his drive and dished off for an easy bucket. Giving away 15 possessions and a 20.8% turnover rate (well above the team's season average) earns no better than a C- from me. Maybe even a D or D+. Plenty of room for improvement in this area.
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This is about the only point I disagree with you on, Tower.
I'll give St. John's credit for getting their hands on the ball. But they were also overcommitting on the double-team -- either on the perimeter or in the post -- and MU was consistently slow to recognize it and move the ball to the open man. (And there was always someone who was wide open.)
I'd like to have seen more plays like Markus made late in the second half when he drew at least four defenders on his drive and dished off for an easy bucket. Giving away 15 possessions and a 20.8% turnover rate (well above the team's season average) earns no better than a C- from me. Maybe even a D or D+. Plenty of room for improvement in this area.
St. John's created an average 18.5 turnovers per game in their first six Big East contests. Marquette committed 15 last night.
Sure, it could have been better, but a C- grade for a game in which St. John's was kept about 20 percent below their average seems pretty harsh.
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This is about the only point I disagree with you on, Tower.
I'll give St. John's credit for getting their hands on the ball. But they were also overcommitting on the double-team -- either on the perimeter or in the post -- and MU was consistently slow to recognize it and move the ball to the open man. (And there was always someone who was wide open.)
I'd like to have seen more plays like Markus made late in the second half when he drew at least four defenders on his drive and dished off for an easy bucket. Giving away 15 possessions and a 20.8% turnover rate (well above the team's season average) earns no better than a C- from me. Maybe even a D or D+. Plenty of room for improvement in this area.
There is always room for improvement. To me, it never felt like SJU was controlling the game with their defense or causing a number of turnovers in a row. Yep, Markus got stripped or had his shot blocked. Yep, every time Jamal and Theo try to pass the ball to each other I hold my breath. I expected SJU to cause turnovers with their defense. They did. But they didn't do it enough to dictate play.
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Certainly should NOT have lost to UW, and the Creighton loss if iffy to me. Going in really didn't think they would lose that game. Certainly didn't expect them to get their doors blown off.
Maryland...ok, and maybe YOU and others EXPECTED to lose to Creighton and UW on the road..I did not. I still will never understand that whole "expect(ed)" to lose that game mentality. I don't know if it's a way for people to somewhat feel like it was okay after they lose, or what the deal is with it. But to me you should never EXPECT to lose a game. understand that yes it COULD happen on any given day, but to expect it?? To me, that's backwards.
So, you EXPECTED that we would be 18-1 at this point in the year?
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An odd expectation if you think Hausergate was catastrophic and Wojo can't coach.
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Certainly should NOT have lost to UW, and the Creighton loss if iffy to me. Going in really didn't think they would lose that game. Certainly didn't expect them to get their doors blown off.
Maryland...ok, and maybe YOU and others EXPECTED to lose to Creighton and UW on the road..I did not. I still will never understand that whole "expect(ed)" to lose that game mentality. I don't know if it's a way for people to somewhat feel like it was okay after they lose, or what the deal is with it. But to me you should never EXPECT to lose a game. understand that yes it COULD happen on any given day, but to expect it?? To me, that's backwards.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/6ecbd22fffe5bcd4fc1492ff6fb8bfce/tenor.gif?itemid=3949803)
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St. John's created an average 18.5 turnovers per game in their first six Big East contests. Marquette committed 15 last night.
Sure, it could have been better, but a C- grade for a game in which St. John's was kept about 20 percent below their average seems pretty harsh.
Good points. St. John's hounded Butler into 24 turnovers -- a 35.3 TO%! -- and the Bulldogs escaped New York with a 60-58 win. Against Seton Hall, SJU forced 19 turnovers (24.4 TO%) before falling to the Pirates 82-79.
Maybe I'm oversensitive to Marquette turnovers at this point in the season. But I do feel this team often digs holes for itself with poor ball movement and unforced errors. More consistency in taking care of the ball and on the defensive end will be key if we're going to contend for a Big East title.
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The team seems to be finding its identity now, and individual roles are solidifying. I think that's a big part of why we've had recent success and why the team is becoming more than just the Markus Howard show. (although it's pretty hard to ignore his recent stretch of impressive scoring) I was very worried about the impact of losing Ed and Greg at the same time, but the bench has responded very well. Id' say the subs are playing some of their best basketball of the year, which will be super important with this next stretch of games.
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BTW, Tower, you can use "Escape from New York" as your subject line if we win a close one on the road in our last game of the season. I don't think Cracked Sidewalks would mind. (See link.)
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2010/02/escape-from-new-york-35-days-after.html (http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2010/02/escape-from-new-york-35-days-after.html)
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An odd expectation if you think Hausergate was catastrophic and Wojo can't coach.
But MU spends a lot of money or something.
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Things must be going pretty well if Sacar scores 21 points (tied for second-most of his career) while shooting 4-11 from beyond the arc (36.4%, better than Markus) and fans are hoping he could hit a "few more" open threes.
Three straight solid team efforts. Well done. But Marquette faces one of the toughest stretches of the season during the next 5 games (rankings and projected win percentages per KenPom):
@ #15 Butler (29%)
@ #59 Xavier (50%)
#54 DePaul (72%)
#15 Butler (54%)
@ #19 Villanova (34%)
Three road games. (Villanova is undefeated at home this season, Butler's only home loss is against #11 Seton Hall.) Three games against teams ranked in the NET Top 20. A tremendous challenge, for sure. But also a tremendous opportunity.
A 2-3 record won't be the end of the world, but would put us at 16-8 (6-6 in the Big East) -- right back in the middle of the pack, with work to do just to make the NCAA tournament.
Go 3-2 and we're 17-7 (7-5), which essentially maintains the status quo. We'd still be among the top 4 teams in the Big East with an outside chance at a conference title, looking ahead to a likely NCAA seed somewhere in the 6 to 8 range.
If MU manages to go 4-1, that would be a big statement. We'd be 18-6 (8-4 in the Big East) with at least 3 wins against Top 20 teams -- which would help us climb the conference standings, significantly improve our NET ranking and put us in the running for a higher seed.
Whatever the outcome, we should learn a lot about this team in the next few weeks.
Before conference play started Kenpom projected us to be 5-7 after 12 games and then win 5 of 6 to end the season at 10-8.
If we get 2 wins during this stretch I'll be content. 3-2 I'd be very happy. 4-1 would be incredible and I think unrealistic.
Hoping they win the 2 home games and steal one on the road.
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Three of those turnovers last night were nice dimes to Theo too. Unfortunately, those were given to the passer.
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I had CUSA UAB game flashbacks and it was not good.
St. John's will be extremely tough in future seasons.
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Some thoughts about last night:
1) I was impressed by the way every time we were challenged, we rose to the occasion. When St. John's closed the gap to two points in the second half, we went on a 7-0 run. We were stirred but not shaken. That's a credit to our senior and junior leadership.
2) We found the open man throughout the game. Yes, the shots didn't always go down and Yes, Markus had an unworldly amount of points, but the passing was generally crisp and the open guy shot. That's good coaching and something that comes with patience and court-smarts. Way to go Wojo!
3) Theo, could you please catch the ball? And, while you are at it, you and Jayce need to stop dribbling the ball when you get it inside. You guys are beasts. Take it to the basket and shove your guy down the hole with the ball if you have to. But everytime you put it on the floor, you get it batted away! Learn, dudes, learn!
4) Uh, Theo, your defense was spectacular!
5) That 2-3 zone at the end of the first half was masterful. The Johnnies had no clue what was coming! Again, good coaching and excellent scouting.
6) Loved the progression in reduced turnovers. That was their key to the game. We've come a long way since early in the season.
All told, I think the team is where we thought it would be right now. Like most posters, I was disappointed by Providence but delighted by Villanova. We beat that mangie mongrel down in Indianapolis on Friday and we'll be in great shape.
Great point. Loved it for a one possession 'change up' situation.
(I wonder if Wojo had the same idea brewing in the second half. He briefly took Markus out late. Then when the Johnnies cut it to 3 possessions it was absolutely necessary that our best FT shooters be all in the game.)
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I only saw one quick replay. To me, it looked borderline -- Rutherford got a piece of the ball and, as his momentum continued, might have touched Markus' wrist. We've all seen similar not called dozens of times. Maybe another replay was shown in which it was more obvious; if so, I missed it. And the T seemed awfully quick, though maybe Rutherford said the magic word or something.
Just saying that if the exact same thing happened with Sacar defending Powell in a game at SH, most of us would not be happy about SH's home cookin'.
It was quick, but he did that reaction EVERY. SINGLE. FOUL. I imagine it was something he had been warned about previously-thus the quick whistle.
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Some thoughts about last night:
1) I was impressed by the way every time we were challenged, we rose to the occasion. When St. John's closed the gap to two points in the second half, we went on a 7-0 run. We were stirred but not shaken. That's a credit to our senior and junior leadership.
2) We found the open man throughout the game. Yes, the shots didn't always go down and Yes, Markus had an unworldly amount of points, but the passing was generally crisp and the open guy shot. That's good coaching and something that comes with patience and court-smarts. Way to go Wojo!
3) Theo, could you please catch the ball? And, while you are at it, you and Jayce need to stop dribbling the ball when you get it inside. You guys are beasts. Take it to the basket and shove your guy down the hole with the ball if you have to. But everytime you put it on the floor, you get it batted away! Learn, dudes, learn!
4) Uh, Theo, your defense was spectacular!
5) That 2-3 zone at the end of the first half was masterful. The Johnnies had no clue what was coming! Again, good coaching and excellent scouting.
6) Loved the progression in reduced turnovers. That was their key to the game. We've come a long way since early in the season.
All told, I think the team is where we thought it would be right now. Like most posters, I was disappointed by Providence but delighted by Villanova. We beat that mangie mongrel down in Indianapolis on Friday and we'll be in great shape.
Nice work here.
I really liked our passing most of the game. Took only a few dopey shots, which every team does sometimes.
As for going to the zone on the last possession of the first half, I loved it. And what I loved even more was doing it out of a timeout that St. John's called. As a coach (at a much lower level, yes), that is my favorite time to change things up a little -- after the opposing coach has called time. They never expect it, and sometimes he or she even burns another timeout.
So, you EXPECTED that we would be 18-1 at this point in the year?
I cannot believe you are short-selling guru's expectations. He thought that, through 19 games, we'd be 24-0.
"Wojo can't coach, and he hasn't recruited as well as some Scoopers claim, but I expect Marquette to win so much that the Big East would have just rewarded MU with 5 extra victories. Anybody who had lower expectations than that is just embracing mediocrity. But hey, that's why I'm the most competitive person in the world!"
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People say all the time "well look what else is happening around CBB" or "so and so just lost at home to xxx". So if a bunch of your buddies go jump off a bridge, should you go do it to?? Or if you do something you aren't supposed to and when asked why, is the response going to be "well, look at what so and so did! Everyone else is doing it, why can't I"??
This analogy is so nonsensical it makes my head hurt.
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Friday is a "turning the corner" kind of game - a big road win after 3 solid games would move the needle from firmly sosojo to slightly projo.
Lose and that's treading water.
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People say all the time "well look what else is happening around CBB" or "so and so just lost at home to xxx". So if a bunch of your buddies go jump off a bridge, should you go do it to?? Or if you do something you aren't supposed to and when asked why, is the response going to be "well, look at what so and so did! Everyone else is doing it, why can't I"??
Is this one of those TV commercials where you're turning into your dad??
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Koby’s body language has noticeably improved. He seems to have settled in and is letting the game come to him much better then he was in the non conference season. Decision making has been really good for awhile now. Love it when he gets in the lane and looks to kick it out to a shooter.......Skip.passes have been great too.
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It was quick, but he did that reaction EVERY. SINGLE. FOUL. I imagine it was something he had been warned about previously-thus the quick whistle.
I also noticed Koby turned towards the ref with his hands out as Rutherford ran away, as if to say, "why do i get t'd up when i do that?" And a second later the tech was called.
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Certainly should NOT have lost to UW, and the Creighton loss if iffy to me. Going in really didn't think they would lose that game. Certainly didn't expect them to get their doors blown off.
Maryland...ok, and maybe YOU and others EXPECTED to lose to Creighton and UW on the road..I did not. I still will never understand that whole "expect(ed)" to lose that game mentality. I don't know if it's a way for people to somewhat feel like it was okay after they lose, or what the deal is with it. But to me you should never EXPECT to lose a game. understand that yes it COULD happen on any given day, but to expect it?? To me, that's backwards.
As a player no, but as a rational fan... c'mon.
Why are you even here if you don't enjoy it?
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Koby’s body language has noticeably improved. He seems to have settled in and is letting the game come to him much better then he was in the non conference season. Decision making has been really good for awhile now. Love it when he gets in the lane and looks to kick it out to a shooter.......Skip.passes have been great too.
Speaking of body language, Brendan's looked very bad almost the entire game...
Right up until his poster dunk!!
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This analogy is so nonsensical it makes my head hurt.
Only because it's spot on, and you can't/won't admit it. So what you are saying is, just because something happens to someone, that that means others should NOT be exempt from it happening?? Gotcha.
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As a player no, but as a rational fan... c'mon.
Why are you even here if you don't enjoy it?
I disagree, you should never EXPECT to lose as a fan either. That's a loser's mentality. Sure, you can understand that it's a possibility(sometimes maybe a good possibility) on any given day, but to expect it?? No way.
I do enjoy it..when they win. When they lose, I don't. Should I be enjoying losses?? That would seem very odd to me.
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I disagree, you should never EXPECT to lose as a fan either. That's a loser's mentality. Sure, you can understand that it's a possibility(sometimes maybe a good possibility) on any given day, but to expect it?? No way.
I do enjoy it..when they win. When they lose, I don't. Should I be enjoying losses?? That would seem very odd to me.
Dear lord.
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I disagree, you should never EXPECT to lose as a fan either. That's a loser's mentality. Sure, you can understand that it's a possibility(sometimes maybe a good possibility) on any given day, but to expect it?? No way.
I do enjoy it..when they win. When they lose, I don't. Should I be enjoying losses?? That would seem very odd to me.
That's fine if you want to never expect a loss.
But if you react to a loss at Villanova the same way as you would a home loss to Central Arkansas (and some here do), then you're a crazy person
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I disagree, you should never EXPECT to lose as a fan either. That's a loser's mentality. Sure, you can understand that it's a possibility(sometimes maybe a good possibility) on any given day, but to expect it?? No way.
I do enjoy it..when they win. When they lose, I don't. Should I be enjoying losses?? That would seem very odd to me.
Admitting a loss is a good possibility is the same as expecting a loss. By definition it's more likely to occur. You can still expect a loss while maintaining optimism. It's a realist mentality.
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Only because it's spot on, and you can't/won't admit it. So what you are saying is, just because something happens to someone, that that means others should NOT be exempt from it happening?? Gotcha.
No, its a terrible analogy because you are trying to compare an athletic contest where two teams are opposing each other in competing their hardest to win vs. an individual acting completely on their own volition without opposition. They aren't remotely similar, which is sort of the point of an analogy.
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[quote author=muguru link=topic=59794.msg1197086#msg1197086
just trying to make sure people understand that they did EXACTLY what everyone should have expected them to do these last 3...they still have to make up for the PC game somewhere.
[/quote]
Wait, the Providence game is over, isn't it. It counted, right? It's in the books. So why is there any need to make it up?
Ooohh, I get it. You mean until the team's performance meets the standards you demand! Get over yourself guy. Neither the team nor the school nor the fan base or people on this board owe you the time of day. They do not have anything to make up. They played the game. They will play the rest of their schedule. Whether you are satisfied with the outcome or not is irrelevant. If you buy a ticket, you are entitled to an entertaining evening in a reasonably comfortable environment. Or really, not even that. As long as the environment is safe and a game takes place, your satisfaction is not required. If you are not satisfied, sell your tickets.
If you are a grad, you are entitled to expect the team will not embarrass the MU community. There should not be any major scandals, no felony arrests, no blatant cheating, no students graduating who do not know how to read. That's about it.
So maybe that fits your definition of "OK." Maybe not. Who cares?
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I only saw one quick replay. To me, it looked borderline -- Rutherford got a piece of the ball and, as his momentum continued, might have touched Markus' wrist. We've all seen similar not called dozens of times. Maybe another replay was shown in which it was more obvious; if so, I missed it. And the T seemed awfully quick, though maybe Rutherford said the magic word or something.
Just saying that if the exact same thing happened with Sacar defending Powell in a game at SH, most of us would not be happy about SH's home cookin'.
I did not see the play and have not had a chance to watch the replay, but I knew the T was coming. Rutherford shouted something and then angrily stormed over to the other side of the court. Way more of a reaction to what he thought was a bad call, and he was showing the ref up. No doubt about the T at all.
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Friday is a "turning the corner" kind of game - a big road win after 3 solid games would move the needle from firmly sosojo to slightly projo.
Lose and that's treading water.
Agreed. We dropped one we “should’ve” won, time to win one we “should” lose
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Agreed. We dropped one we “should’ve” won, time to win one we “should” lose
Both Vegas and KenPom said we "should" have lost to Georgetown.
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Both Vegas and KenPom said we "should" have lost to Georgetown.
I don’t subscribe.
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I did not see the play and have not had a chance to watch the replay, but I knew the T was coming. Rutherford shouted something and then angrily stormed over to the other side of the court. Way more of a reaction to what he thought was a bad call, and he was showing the ref up. No doubt about the T at all.
He's lucky he didn't get one about ten seconds into the game when he picked up his first v. Markus. My guess is the refs gave him a break then.
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I disagree, you should never EXPECT to lose as a fan either. That's a loser's mentality. Sure, you can understand that it's a possibility(sometimes maybe a good possibility) on any given day, but to expect it?? No way.
I do enjoy it..when they win. When they lose, I don't. Should I be enjoying losses?? That would seem very odd to me.
I literally never said you should be enjoying losses.
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I don’t subscribe.
Vegas requires a subscription? ;)
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Agreed. We dropped one we “should’ve” won, time to win one we “should” lose
I don't know that Providence is the pushover everyone thought they were, and can be classified as a "should" win game.
They beat the Hoyas by 16, beat a tough DePaul team on the road, beat St Johns, played Butler tough, and just gave Creighton a scare on the road. They looked every bit Marquettes equal in another road win.
Having seen almost every team play(I have yet to see DePaul), I don't know if I think any of Marquettes upcoming opponents are "should" win games. I'm guessing some of Marquettes opponents fan bases also thought MU was a "should" win game. Oops.
The conference is truly as tough as people projected it to be.
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I don't know that Providence is the pushover everyone thought they were, and can be classified as a "should" win game.
They beat the Hoyas by 16, beat a tough DePaul team on the road, beat St Johns, player Butler tough, and just gave Creighton a scare on the road. They looked every bit Marquettes equal in another road win.
Having seen almost every team play(I have yet to see DePaul), I don't know if I think any of Marquettes upcoming opponents are "should" win games. I'm guessing some of Marquettes opponents fan bases also thought MU was a "should" win game. Oops.
The conference is truly as tough as people projected it to be.
Agreed. We may not have a legit top-5 team this year, but I'd take our cellar-dwellers over the dregs of any other P6 conference.
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I don't know that Providence is the pushover everyone thought they were, and can be classified as a "should" win game.
Providence isn't a pushover, and Marquette should have won. Even as badly as MU played most of the game, it was there for them. Classic case of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
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Providence isn't a pushover, and Marquette should have won. Even as badly as MU played most of the game, it was there for them. Classic case of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
I'm talking about chalking it up as a "should" win before the game even starts.
How many "should" wins do people see coming up in conference play??
Put another way..... How many conference teams does Marquette outclass to such an obvious degree that a win is a virtual lock in the upcoming games??
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PC will give team fits. They are a decent team and well coached. They will be challenge on the road.
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St. John's created an average 18.5 turnovers per game in their first six Big East contests. Marquette committed 15 last night.
Sure, it could have been better, but a C- grade for a game in which St. John's was kept about 20 percent below their average seems pretty harsh.
You don't have to ignore the fact that different basketball games have different amounts of possessions.
MU's 20.7% turnover rate was the second best against StJ in BEast play this year (only Georgetown's 19.6% was better), StJ's turned Butler over 35%+
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Providence isn't a pushover, and Marquette should have won. Even as badly as MU played most of the game, it was there for them. Classic case of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Yup. If Reeves' shot to force overtime doesn't fall, I think much of the angst on this board would be noticeably different.
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Agreed. Hold on to that one and the tone would be different.
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Agreed. Hold on to that one and the tone would be different.
I honestly can't tell if that comment was serious or sarcastic.
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A little of both.
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I did not see the play and have not had a chance to watch the replay, but I knew the T was coming. Rutherford shouted something and then angrily stormed over to the other side of the court. Way more of a reaction to what he thought was a bad call, and he was showing the ref up. No doubt about the T at all.
To you and all others who saw that play and its aftermath more clearly than I did, I appreciate the explanations.
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I know I'm going to regret this but what is the other game aside from Providence that they "should" have won? Yes, we've gotten our butts kicked a few times, which is extremely frustrating, but losses on the road to Wisconsin, Creighton and Seton Hall and a neutral court loss to Maryland are hardly unexpected.
exactly right.
the ignore list is a wonderful thing.
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I know I'm going to regret this but what is the other game aside from Providence that they "should" have won? Yes, we've gotten our butts kicked a few times, which is extremely frustrating, but losses on the road to Wisconsin, Creighton and Seton Hall and a neutral court loss to Maryland are hardly unexpected.
Premise here is correct. However, would have liked to see us be more competitive against WI, Creighton, and Maryland. We probably don't win any of those games, but how we lost was disappointing and caused angst.
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Premise here is correct. However, would have liked to see us be more competitive against WI, Creighton, and Maryland. We probably don't win any of those games, but how we lost was disappointing and caused angst.
Obviously it's disappointing when you get your a** kicked multiple times - you always want to be more competitive. Blowouts obviously happen (see what happened to Memphis last night). We just may have more of a propensity to lose big on the road if MH is off considering our other weapons haven't developed any consistency yet, although we've been seen more of it lately. But to have expected wins in those games is silly.