MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: fjm on January 15, 2020, 05:25:47 PM
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On leave of absence.
Not playing tonight.
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On leave of absence.
Not playing tonight.
Hope all is well for him. Will be missed.
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Hope all is okay with Ed.
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I hope all is well with him. Is Greg still out?
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Anyone know what this is about?
“Indefinite leave of absence” doesn’t sound too good.
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1217588445415079938
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Anyone know what this is about?
“Indefinite leave of absence” doesn’t sound too good.
So many possibilities.
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Indefinite sounds bad. I haven't exactly been a big fan of Ed's play, but there goes 5 fouls and depth.
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Anyone know what this is about?
“Indefinite leave of absence” doesn’t sound too good.
Hopefully everything is ok from a health perspective with him and his family.
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Indefinite just means an undetermined length.
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So many possibilities.
it could be a personal decision like deciding whether to continue with the program.
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it could be a personal decision like deciding whether to continue with the program.
Would seem like a weird time to bounce. It’s not like Ed is a head hanging disgruntled guy. Hopefully it’s just a couple day thing, but the tweet sure isn’t phrased that way.
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Would seem like a weird time to bounce. It’s not like Ed is a head hanging disgruntled guy. Hopefully it’s just a couple day thing, but the tweet sure isn’t phrased that way.
have classes for second semester started yet?
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it could be a personal decision like deciding whether to continue with the program.
That doesn't seem to make sense. He's a senior. If he's frustrated because Jayce is getting more PT he might be doing a mid-season Hauser, and bailing on the team. I hope not.
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it could be a personal decision like deciding whether to continue with the program.
I suspect this is probably the reality, brought about by frustration with his inconsistent role. Doubtful when he transferred here he thought he was going to be a 5-15 minute per game player. By all reports he was tearing it up in practice his redshirt year. Wonder why it hasn't translated on the court..
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I suspect this is probably the reality, brought about by frustration with his inconsistent role. Doubtful when he transferred here he thought he was going to be a 5-15 minute per game player. By all reports he was tearing it up in practice his redshirt year. Wonder why it hasn't translated on the court..
Probably because traveling isn’t called in practice. He’s literally unable to handle the ball, shoot from further than point blank (which he still often misses), and he’s very undersized for a front court player. I like Ed - I hope he comes back! Marquette could use him. But he’s been given plenty of opportunity with mostly poor results. I don’t feel like he’s quitting the team because he’s upset w his role during his senior season.
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I suspect this is probably the reality, brought about by frustration with his inconsistent role. Doubtful when he transferred here he thought he was going to be a 5-15 minute per game player. By all reports he was tearing it up in practice his redshirt year. Wonder why it hasn't translated on the court..
The number of players who tear it up their redshirt year is a long one, stretching back multiple coaches.
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have classes for second semester started yet?
Yes. I think he already has his degree since he sat out a year.
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To my knowledge, Ed did not graduate last year. He may have graduated this December
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Maybe Gardiner will get a couple of minutes.
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Looks like Greg is in a boot tonight too. At least I think it's Greg from my nosebleeds
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We absolutely, positively, 100% do not win last year's game against F%cky without him ... so for that alone, I am glad we got him and I thank him for his contribution.
Whatever happens from here on, none of us knows as we sit here today. I wish him well, regardless of what he decides to do.
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Maybe Gardiner will get a couple of minutes.
Do we have any reason to believe Gardiner could even be a spot minute guy? Haven’t seen anywhere near enough of him to have an opinion.
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(https://media2.giphy.com/media/zPOErRpLtHWbm/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a55f64e69eb6b41c04ee3a96ff226efcf02000eb8&rid=giphy.gif)
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To my knowledge, Ed did not graduate last year. He may have graduated this December
Alright thanks.
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It’s starting to feel like last February.
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Bad weather? Bad attitudes sabotaging the team? Weak scoop takes? Be more specific.
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Bad weather? Bad attitudes sabotaging the team? Weak scoop takes? Be more specific.
Arby's coupons that expire at midnight.
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Do we have any reason to believe Gardiner could even be a spot minute guy? Haven’t seen anywhere near enough of him to have an opinion.
Having seen him multiple times I would say Gardiner was probably a low major player before he tore his ACL his junior year.
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Having seen him multiple times I would say Gardiner was probably a low major player before he tore his ACL his junior year.
Better than I figured.
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Ed was in the halftime video. If he was gone they likely would have cut him out.
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Ed was in the halftime video. If he was gone they likely would have cut him out.
He was on the cover of the game program.
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It’s starting to feel like last February.
I might feel that way if Ed were any good. Hope everything is OK with him in his personal life, but it's not exactly a death knell to this team
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I heard he walked off pre-game. Took his jersey off and said he was done.... PO’d at playing time. Esp after getting pulled after missed 3pt miss vs Prov!!’ :-\. Just sayin’!!
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I heard he walked off pre-game. Took his jersey off and said he was done.... PO’d at playing time. Esp after getting pulled after missed 3pt miss vs Prov!!’ :-\. Just sayin’!!
He took a 3P against PC? I don’t believe Ed has attempted a 3P all season.
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It was a long 2 near the top of the key. I remember being pretty shocked he took the shot.
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It was a long 2 near the top of the key. I remember being pretty shocked he took the shot.
I remember that, but it was like free throw line and well short 3 pointer.
Bummer if Ed quit like that. Not sure what else he’s looking for.
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It’s starting to feel like last February.
really? ed morrow, the lynch pin between his dominating the offensive and defensive boards to markus offense? i'm sure you were exaggerating
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I heard he walked off pre-game. Took his jersey off and said he was done.... PO’d at playing time. Esp after getting pulled after missed 3pt miss vs Prov!!’ :-\. Just sayin’!!
It was nowhere near a 3-pointer.
I hope we get to hear what actually happened.
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Homer asked Wojo about both Greg and Ed in the postgame. Wojo said Greg is day to day, and he was pretty vague about Ed. Said something along the lines of we'll just have to see. No real details. Any comments now are probably just speculation. Hopefully we'll find out what's going on soon.
Regardless of the situation, the team responded well tonight, especially on the boards. At least that is promising.
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Support Ed fully with whatever he decides. Unfortunately for him and the team his contribution has been very limited and disappointing for a senior. Can't make a move without walking it seems. Wait and see like Wojo said.
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Is it too late for him to transfer? If it is and he quit too late in his senior year, his college career is now over.
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Is it too late for him to transfer? If it is and he quit too late in his senior year, his college career is now over.
This is the worst case scenario. Let's not assume this is actually what happened just yet.
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I heard he walked off pre-game. Took his jersey off and said he was done.... PO’d at playing time. Esp after getting pulled after missed 3pt miss vs Prov!!’ :-\. Just sayin’!!
You forgot the teal.
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Is it too late for him to transfer? If it is and he quit too late in his senior year, his college career is now over.
Yes.
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I heard he walked off pre-game. Took his jersey off and said he was done.... PO’d at playing time. Esp after getting pulled after missed 3pt miss vs Prov!!’ :-\. Just sayin’!!
I assume this is sarcasm, yet I wouldn’t be surprised if something similar happened - a blow up - and he said he’s done. I’m sure he’s frustrated AF.
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I assume this is sarcasm, yet I wouldn’t be surprised if something similar happened - a blow up - and he said he’s done. I’m sure he’s frustrated AF.
Should be frustrated with himself, no?
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I am a big fan of Ed, but if he is pissed, maybe he should try to play better basketball
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I assume this is sarcasm, yet I wouldn’t be surprised if something similar happened - a blow up - and he said he’s done. I’m sure he’s frustrated AF.
Thank you for today's "seashells and balloons" moment.
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Sorry, but it wasn't TEAL time... Just what I had heard... 8-) Pretty good source... Im not one to stir the pot... But you never know ! ! ! 8-)
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Sorry, but it wasn't TEAL time... Just what I had heard... 8-) Pretty good source... Im not one to stir the pot... But you never know ! ! ! 8-)
Unfortunate if true. Wish him the best either way. Seems like an exceptional young man, just many of his shortcomings were exposed on the basketball court. Hope he continues to be an excellent representative of the University.
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I heard he walked off pre-game. Took his jersey off and said he was done.... PO’d at playing time. :-\. Just sayin’!!
No teal. Checks out with what I was told.
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Sorry, but it wasn't TEAL time... Just what I had heard... 8-) Pretty good source... Im not one to stir the pot... But you never know ! ! ! 8-)
Your source stinks.
Ed took the worst shot in basketball with two high percentage three point shooters open. Ed struggled to gather the ball, took a dribble and shot a terrible looking shot.
Ed has his own problems to figure out, I hope his time off allows him time to do that. If not, enjoy your degree and embrace the Marquette community.
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It was a long 2 near the top of the key. I remember being pretty shocked he took the shot.
Sultan said it was a good shot!
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If Ed is really done, I wish him nothing but the best. His block of Happ and help defense at the end of the Villanova game last NMD will be how I remember him.
I don't think he was ever quite the same after the sports hernia, and that hindered his development. I thank Ed for battling through injuries and always putting forth a strong effort.
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You forgot the teal.
Nope, not using Teal always allows for an escape option.
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Tweet said family stuff. I’ll assume family stuff until proven otherwise.
That said m, Ed played some real solid games this year. He’s a solid player. I appreciate him and his role.
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What the hell does the guy expect? Hes a barely 6 foot 7 center. Cant shoot at all. Cant dribble. Slow. Not a great defender. Makes bad decisions. Did I mention very short and unathletic for his position. You just cant expect that much in reality. None of our bigs are that good but they are 6.9 and 7.0 tall. Idk what else to say. Play better
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I suspect this is probably the reality, brought about by frustration with his inconsistent role. Doubtful when he transferred here he thought he was going to be a 5-15 minute per game player. By all reports he was tearing it up in practice his redshirt year. Wonder why it hasn't translated on the court..
Because they do not use their 'bigs' right....THAT'S WHY!
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Trashing a guy without knowing what is going on, unless one counts a single anonymous post. Grow up.
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My guess is this will let some people get their wish to see Brendan with some PT at the 5. If that's a good thing or not....
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Sultan said it was a good shot!
In rhythm. No one close. Good shot.
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To all you terrible people trashing the guy without knowing what is going on ....
I like Ed and think our team is better with him. I hope whatever the issue keeping from the team is not serious and he returns soon.
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To all you terrible people trashing the guy without knowing what is going on ....
I like Ed and think our team is better with him. I hope whatever the issue keeping from the team is not serious and he returns soon.
This
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I absolutely would rather have Ed on our roster, available to play 10-20 minutes in any given game, than not have him.
This feels like an ending for him as a MU player, but I hope it's not.
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Wishing Ed well. Not sure if he ever got enough minutes to show what he is as a player or not. I think Wojo gave the nod to Theo earlier on and he had an uphill battle. Not a rip on Wojo, many coaches latch up to certain guys for a wide range of reasons. That said, I would have latched onto Ed from day one.
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We definitely are not better off without him. Was really hoping he would rattle off several good games in a row to solidify his position on the team. I wish him well.
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No teal. Checks out with what I was told.
Very troubling and disappointing. If true our team got worse.
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This
+2
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Wishing Ed well. Not sure if he ever got enough minutes to show what he is as a player or not. I think Wojo gave the nod to Theo earlier on and he had an uphill battle. Not a rip on Wojo, many coaches latch up to certain guys for a wide range of reasons. That said, I would have latched onto Ed from day one.
Let’s not forget about Morrow’s injuries, surgery, etc. He really was off the charts when he sat out a year, but had the core injury which required abdominal surgery and sidelined 6 months. He has never been the same. Core injuries are huge, it is why he has trouble jumping.
Wojo didn’t have much choice, Morrow was injured and slowly coming back into health.
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Very troubling and disappointing. If true our team got worse.
Because we won't have 3 additional travels a game?
I liked Morrow but let's not pretend he was exactly a positive in most games this year. Liked him a lot more last year.
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While I do think he has to play better than he has, I hope we haven't seen the last of Ed. He has shown signs of being a good rebounder and defender, but the number of times he walks in the low post with the ball is frustrating. If he's gone though, we're going to miss what he brings to the table, not to mention his 5 fouls.
Serious question, and on a subject I hope doesn't happen....if he did in fact pull off his jersey and say he's done, what happens with his tuition? Does a player who quits mid season continue to get tuition paid?
Mr. Curious
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While I do think he has to play better than he has, I hope we haven't seen the last of Ed. He has shown signs of being a good rebounder and defender, but the number of times he walks in the low post with the ball is frustrating. If he's gone though, we're going to miss what he brings to the table, not to mention his 5 fouls.
Serious question, and on a subject I hope doesn't happen....if he did in fact pull off his jersey and say he's done, what happens with his tuition? Does a player who quits mid season continue to get tuition paid?
Mr. Curious
If he decides he is done, but stays in school, Marquette *could* charge him for tuition, room and board.
If he decides he is done, and completes the withdrawal process, Marquette *could* charge him for tuition, room and board, but he would get a 100% forgiveness if he does so by January 21.
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Wishing Ed well. Not sure if he ever got enough minutes to show what he is as a player or not. I think Wojo gave the nod to Theo earlier on and he had an uphill battle. Not a rip on Wojo, many coaches latch up to certain guys for a wide range of reasons. That said, I would have latched onto Ed from day one.
Woj's evaluation of grad and traditional transfers has been hit or miss, at best, hey?
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Woj's evaluation of grad and traditional transfers has been hit or miss, at best, hey?
Hit: Carlino, Rowsey, Reinhardt
Miss: Froling, Chartouney
Asterisk: Wally (didn't play well but got us Henry)
TBD: McEwen, Johnson
Not sure where I would put Ed. He's pretty much the same player he was at Nebraska. He just never really improved.
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Because we won't have 3 additional travels a game?
I liked Morrow but let's not pretend he was exactly a positive in most games this year. Liked him a lot more last year.
He was a contributor whether he lived up to expectations or not. That can’t be disputed.
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In rhythm. No one close. Good shot.
Agree. When a high major kid gets benched for essentially shooting a free throw, it speaks volumes. Said it before and I'll say it again - if you aren't one of Wojo's chosen few guys, he'd be a hard guy to play for.
Before those of you who are his strongest backers go off the ledge - You support Wojo suggesting he has room to grow as a coach - I agree. An area where he needs to improve is to be more consistent in his approach to roles, playing time, and rotation. He is far too emotionally reactive (benching) to "mistakes" his 4-11 players make, and this results in players playing tight, with an eroded confidence, which only exacerbates the problem.
Unfortunately, I don't think he's even aware of this.
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I was very impressed with Ed's fight last season. He is a supreme hustler/worker. I love guys like that. He hadn't been playing well that well this season, but it would be a real shame if his career at MU is over. Your basic catch-22. It is tough for guys like him to get comfortable and in rhythm when getting spotty minutes, but also tough to give more minutes to a guy who is not playing effectively in the minutes he is given.
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Hit: Carlino, Rowsey, Reinhardt
Miss: Froling, Chartouney
Asterisk: Wally (didn't play well but got us Henry)
TBD: McEwen, Johnson
Not sure where I would put Ed. He's pretty much the same player he was at Nebraska. He just never really improved.
Because of injuries
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I'm perfectly fine with Wojo not being okay with Ed (or Theo or Jayce) taking 15-20 foot jumpers, even if they're wide open. They're wide open for a reason, and we saw the reason with the result of the shot. I'd expect Wojo to treat his "chosen guy" Theo the same way if Theo felt the itch to shoot the same type of shot.
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While Ed’s contribution level varied from game to game, I don’t see any credible argument the team is not worse off without him being there and available. The depth and strength he could provide, even as the third option at the 5, were valuable assets in looking at the team as a whole even if on a game to game basis there were struggles. Theo and Jayce remaining “healthy” and able to stay in games with more minutes is now is a must. The safety net is gone.
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Agree. When a high major kid gets benched for essentially shooting a free throw, it speaks volumes. Said it before and I'll say it again - if you aren't one of Wojo's chosen few guys, he'd be a hard guy to play for.
Before those of you who are his strongest backers go off the ledge - You support Wojo suggesting he has room to grow as a coach - I agree. An area where he needs to improve is to be more consistent in his approach to roles, playing time, and rotation. He is far too emotionally reactive (benching) to "mistakes" his 4-11 players make, and this results in players playing tight, with an eroded confidence, which only exacerbates the problem.
Unfortunately, I don't think he's even aware of this.
Most of ur posts are so dumb that i simply read and shake my head.
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Tough to be the third string center as a 5th yr senior. Very very difficult role to accept
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I'm perfectly fine with Wojo not being okay with Ed (or Theo or Jayce) taking 15-20 foot jumpers, even if they're wide open. They're wide open for a reason, and we saw the reason with the result of the shot. I'd expect Wojo to treat his "chosen guy" Theo the same way if Theo felt the itch to shoot the same type of shot.
Ed's shooting ability is better than Theo/Jayce. Reports coming from practice said they had Ed practicing 3-point shots. Ed thought he'd be a face up 4 when he transferred into Marquette.
So a guy misses a wide open 15' shot? Big F'in deal. Markus Howard can miss countless 25' step back threes before even passing the ball to a teammate without getting benched.
Ed and the other guys put in the same hard work, long hours, and commitment that the chosen ones do. You don't yank a guy for missing that shot. Bardo said it well last night - that all guys need to see the ball go through the hoop/be involved offensively - it helps them play better in all phases.
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Regardless of the reason he is out, I will miss Ed if he doesn't play for MU again. To me he was always a great part of the Theo/Ed tandem that complimented each other so well and appeared to be a stand up guy.
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Most of ur posts are so dumb that i simply read and shake my head.
I take this as a supreme compliment. I'd never want to be on the same page about anything with a guy of your "caliber."
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If Ed is really done, I wish him nothing but the best.
Agree. He worked hard to get through his medical issues but it didn't work out to seashells and balloons. Here's hoping that that work ethic will help him in future endeavors.
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Hit: Carlino, Rowsey, Reinhardt
Miss: Froling, Chartouney
Asterisk: Wally (didn't play well but got us Henry)
TBD: McEwen, Johnson
Not sure where I would put Ed. He's pretty much the same player he was at Nebraska. He just never really improved.
Hard to give him an absolute hit or miss, as he hasn’t been as productive as the three “hits” you listed, but has been better than Chartouny and Froling.
If you give the “hits” As or Bs and the “misses” Ds or Fs, I’d give Ed a solid C.
Seems like he’d have been an A or B if he hadn’t been hit with the injuries.
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To all you terrible people trashing the guy without knowing what is going on ....
I like Ed and think our team is better with him. I hope whatever the issue keeping from the team is not serious and he returns soon.
Word
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Ed's shooting ability is better than Theo/Jayce. Reports coming from practice said they had Ed practicing 3-point shots. Ed thought he'd be a face up 4 when he transferred into Marquette.
So a guy misses a wide open 15' shot? Big F'in deal. Markus Howard can miss countless 25' step back threes before even passing the ball to a teammate without getting benched.
Ed and the other guys put in the same hard work, long hours, and commitment that the chosen ones do. You don't yank a guy for missing that shot. Bardo said it well last night - that all guys need to see the ball go through the hoop/be involved offensively - it helps them play better in all phases.
Ed Morrow played after he missed the jumper. He missed it at the 4:22 mark of the first half and was out at the under 4 timeout.
He played in the second half. He came in at 13:48 and played to 10:53 (the under 12 timeout)
There really isn't evidence that he was pulled because of the jumper. And he played afterwards so I don't know what to say. I think what is undeniable is that he fell to third in post minutes. He's never really evolved into the 4 that people thought he would.
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What the hell does the guy expect? Hes a barely 6 foot 7 center. Cant shoot at all. Cant dribble. Slow. Not a great defender. Makes bad decisions. Did I mention very short and unathletic for his position. You just cant expect that much in reality. None of our bigs are that good but they are 6.9 and 7.0 tall. Idk what else to say. Play better
Ed busted his @$$ while at MU. Let's try to keep the player criticism to a minimum please.
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Ed's shooting ability is better than Theo/Jayce. Reports coming from practice said they had Ed practicing 3-point shots. Ed thought he'd be a face up 4 when he transferred into Marquette.
So a guy misses a wide open 15' shot? Big F'in deal. Markus Howard can miss countless 25' step back threes before even passing the ball to a teammate without getting benched.
Ed and the other guys put in the same hard work, long hours, and commitment that the chosen ones do. You don't yank a guy for missing that shot. Bardo said it well last night - that all guys need to see the ball go through the hoop/be involved offensively - it helps them play better in all phases.
So you want Markus and Ed to be held to the same standard in terms of shot selection?
Good to know where you stand. It explains a lot.
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Ed Morrow played after he missed the jumper. He missed it at the 4:22 mark of the first half and was out at the under 4 timeout.
He played in the second half. He came in at 13:48 and played to 10:53 (the under 12 timeout)
There really isn't evidence that he was pulled because of the jumper. And he played afterwards so I don't know what to say. I think what is undeniable is that he fell to third in post minutes. He's never really evolved into the 4 that people thought he would.
Yeah, this. There's zero evidence Ed was somehow being punished for missing a shot. Someone's spinning a narrative.
I get his frustration. I imagine he hopes to make a living on basketball somewhere after this, and he's not getting the minutes he probably believes he needs to catch the eye of pro scouts somewhere.
That said, based on performance, Ed's been getting the minutes he's earned.
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Wishing Ed well. Not sure if he ever got enough minutes to show what he is as a player or not. I think Wojo gave the nod to Theo earlier on and he had an uphill battle. Not a rip on Wojo, many coaches latch up to certain guys for a wide range of reasons. That said, I would have latched onto Ed from day one.
Hey Goose.
Given that neither you nor I ever saw Morrow once at practice, I'm not sure how you could make an evaluation that it would have been better for Ed to get more minutes than Theo.
From what we have seen in games, Morrow and Theo are fairly similar offensively -- neither has range beyond a couple of feet, neither has great hands or feet, both often lose the ball when they dribble, neither has been a very good passer out of the post.
Both have been foul-prone.
Morrow has looked a little better as a rebounder, Theo has looked far superior as a rim protector.
Most of our very best games the last year and a half have been when Theo has avoided foul trouble. He has had stretches in which he was a dominant, intimidating shot-alterer, most recently against Nova. Ed has had a few good moments, too, most notably last season against Madison, but too few.
One thing I truly believe Wojo has done quite well has been managing playing time at the 5, starting with Luke and Heldt, all the way through this season with Theo, Ed and Jayce.
You certainly are free to disagree, and if you really do think the majority of minutes should have gone to Morrow, I'd be very interested to hear why. IIRC -- and I might not be recalling correctly -- you said not long ago that Jayce was the best of the 3.
And BTW, I say all of this having already gone on the record multiple times as saying I value what Ed can bring, and I hope somehow it works out that he returns to the team.
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Ed Morrow played after he missed the jumper. He missed it at the 4:22 mark of the first half and was out at the under 4 timeout.
He played in the second half. He came in at 13:48 and played to 10:53 (the under 12 timeout)
There really isn't evidence that he was pulled because of the jumper.
That, and Jayce played his ass off in that second half. Wojo needed to keep him out there.
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MU82
My comment on Johnson being the best of the bunch was based off of conversations I had with several people I respect a great deal that watched him at practice. That was not firsthand knowledge on my part. That said, while he is extremely limited, IMO, he is a very good rebounder, especially on the offensive side of the court.
As for Ed, I saw zero in Theo going into last season and felt Ed was a more rounded basketball player. I put a great emphasis on guys that appear to be basketball players first, not just athletic. Would say that I was I never jumped on the Cain bandwagon. He is a great athlete, but not a high level basketball player. IMO, Ed gets the the game and is a far smarter player than Theo. I think one of the biggest things lacking in this years team is a lack of high IQ basketball guys. The Hausers were high level in that regard and it is missed a great deal.
Quick follow up to that, I think Bailey knows the game, Koby and Symir as well, which is a positive moving forward. No one likes athletic players more than me, but they need to be athletic basketball players.
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MU82
My comment on Johnson being the best of the bunch was based off of conversations I had with several people I respect a great deal that watched him at practice. That was not firsthand knowledge on my part. That said, while he is extremely limited, IMO, he is a very good rebounder, especially on the offensive side of the court.
As for Ed, I saw zero in Theo going into last season and felt Ed was a more rounded basketball player. I put a great emphasis on guys that appear to be basketball players first, not just athletic. Would say that I was I never jumped on the Cain bandwagon. He is a great athlete, but not a high level basketball player. IMO, Ed gets the the game and is a far smarter player than Theo. I think one of the biggest things lacking in this years team is a lack of high IQ basketball guys. The Hausers were high level in that regard and it is missed a great deal.
Quick follow up to that, I think Bailey knows the game, Koby and Symir as well, which is a positive moving forward. No one likes athletic players more than me, but they need to be athletic basketball players.
Thanks for the thoughtful answer, Goose. We disagree somewhat on Theo -- though I know his limitations, he has had some outstanding performances, and not just against cupcakes, and I think he has earned his playing time -- but it's nice to be able to have civil conversations despite disagreements.
I am glad Wojo brought in Jayce. He is an outstanding rebounder, he hustles and he isn't afraid to show a bit of a mean streak.
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So you want Markus and Ed to be held to the same standard in terms of shot selection?
Good to know where you stand. It explains a lot.
I want a TEAM* that can rely on more than out of this world type of shooting performances in order to win. Chemistry matters.
And no, I don't think Ed should be shooting step back 25' threes. 8-)
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I want a TEAM* that can rely on more than out of this world type of shooting performances in order to win. Chemistry matters.
And no, I don't think Ed should be shooting step back 25' threes. 8-)
do you think last noght was an out of this world shooting performance? Or Purdue?
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He was a contributor whether he lived up to expectations or not. That can’t be disputed.
Plus Tax
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do you think last noght was an out of this world shooting performance? Or Purdue?
I think our bigs got 10 shot last night and were involved early..and there was a clear emphasis to involve them. Something that has frequently been forgotten. And Ed was assigned into a role here to play on the block/as a big.
Hard to contribute when your guards rarely share the ball, and if they do, when you miss a shot or travel, you are yanked, and usually get about 2-3 minute stretches of playing time.
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MU82
IMO, Ed gets the the game and is a far smarter player than Theo. I think one of the biggest things lacking in this years team is a lack of high IQ basketball guys.
I question how many Marquette games you actually watch if you're touting Ed Morrow's basketball IQ......
Guy is a walking personal foul with no low-post feel. To claim he's "far smarter" than anyone on this team is foolish IMO.
This isn't me knocking a man while he's down, as I hope there's some reconciliation and he's back, but the fact is Ed has been one of our worst players since he's been here. Definitely does not deserve more PT.
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I think our bigs got 10 shot last night and were involved early..and there was a clear emphasis to involve them. Something that has frequently been forgotten. And Ed was assigned into a role here to play on the block/as a big.
Hard to contribute when your guards rarely share the ball, and if they do, when you miss a shot or travel, you are yanked, and usually get about 2-3 minute stretches of playing time.
Just to dispel any nonsensical inference that Ed has lacked opportunities, his 17.7 usage rate ranks fourth among players in the rotation, behind only Markus, Sacar and Koby. His shot attempts per 100 possessions ranks fifth among the regulars, ahead of Jayce and Theo.
Ed's minutes aren't likely where he wants them, but he's not being denied opportunities when he's on the floor.
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I think our bigs got 10 shot last night and were involved early..and there was a clear emphasis to involve them. Something that has frequently been forgotten. And Ed was assigned into a role here to play on the block/as a big.
Hard to contribute when your guards rarely share the ball, and if they do, when you miss a shot or travel, you are yanked, and usually get about 2-3 minute stretches of playing time.
The guy has a career turnover percentage of over 20%, as a big, for two different coaches and programs.
I guess two different coaches must not have been giving Ed enough run to get comfortable enough to not be a turnover machine.
I wanted Ed to kill it, and I wish him nothing but the best, but in my (obviously inferior) mind, the solution to Ed's issues was not to keep running Ed out there and throw him the ball so he can try to figure out how not to travel on one end and then having Nate Watson score over him every time down the court on the other end. But who knows, I'm sure it was just the lack of minutes and had Wojo just let him play through his mistakes he'd have been Charles Barkley.
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Just to dispel any nonsensical inference that Ed has lacked opportunities, his 17.7 usage rate ranks fourth among players in the rotation, behind only Markus, Sacar and Koby. His shot attempts per 100 possessions ranks fifth among the regulars, ahead of Jayce and Theo.
Ed's minutes aren't likely where he wants them, but he's not being denied opportunities when he's on the floor.
He's played 27% of minutes avail = 10.8 minutes per game. Chop that up into two or three segments of run, and you have a guy getting 3-5 minutes of run at a time. Super easy to get into a flow and rhythm.
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He's played 27% of minutes avail = 10.8 minutes per game. Chop that up into two or three segments of run, and you have a guy getting 3-5 minutes of run at a time. Super easy to get into a flow and rhythm.
It's called basketball. To get more minutes you have to earn them. Really you have been saying this nonsense about "flow and rhythm" for years to justify why the players you like aren't productive. And the evidence just doesn't hold up.
I think Wojo deserves some criticism how he handles the locker room. But don't make sh*t up to justify it.
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Yes, agree with this completely! Plus he would seem to miss point blank bunnies ad naseum.
The guy has a career turnover percentage of over 20%, as a big, for two different coaches and programs.
I guess two different coaches must not have been giving Ed enough run to get comfortable enough to not be a turnover machine.
I wanted Ed to kill it, and I wish him nothing but the best, but in my (obviously inferior) mind, the solution to Ed's issues was not to keep running Ed out there and throw him the ball so he can try to figure out how not to travel on one end and then having Nate Watson score over him every time down the court on the other end. But who knows, I'm sure it was just the lack of minutes and had Wojo just let him play through his mistakes he'd have been Charles Barkley.
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Kids leave & get run off all the time.
I don't like that we've had so many that have erupted mid-season in recent years...DB, Traci, HC, Ed --off the top of my head.
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I hope Ed comes back. We need his intensity and toughness. He's a fighter who plays hard to win. And that's the definition of a true Warrior.
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It's called basketball. To get more minutes you have to earn them. Really you have been saying this nonsense about "flow and rhythm" for years to justify why the players you like aren't productive. And the evidence just doesn't hold up.
I think Wojo deserves some criticism how he handles the locker room. But don't make sh*t up to justify it.
I didn't love Ed as a player...but I can absolutely understand why he struggled. The "flow and rhythm" isn't nonsense. Playing on eggshells is a perfect formula for underachievement.
I'm not surprised that Wojo hasn't been able to manage the locker room/roster well, has had numerous mid-season transfers/quitters.
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Hard to contribute when your guards rarely share the ball, and if they do, when you miss a shot or travel, you are yanked, and usually get about 2-3 minute stretches of playing time.
On the flipside, our bigs are generally not very good at kicking the ball back out if they don't have a good look. Once the ball gets into the paint, it stays there. I think our big guys force too many shots just because they're close to the hoop. Especially for a group that is more defense-focused than offense-focused, I'd like to see them get the ball back out to scorers more often.
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On the flipside, our bigs are generally not very good at kicking the ball back out if they don't have a good look. Once the ball gets into the paint, it stays there. I think our big guys force too many shots just because they're close to the hoop. Especially for a group that is more defense-focused than offense-focused, I'd like to see them get the ball back out to scorers more often.
Yep.
A couple games ago, Ed made a nice pass out of the post for a 3 (BB I think, but might have been Sacar); yesterday, Theo made a great pocket pass to Cain for a layup. I was surprised both times, and cheered the TV set both times.
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On the flipside, our bigs are generally not very good at kicking the ball back out if they don't have a good look. Once the ball gets into the paint, it stays there. I think our big guys force too many shots just because they're close to the hoop. Especially for a group that is more defense-focused than offense-focused, I'd like to see them get the ball back out to scorers more often.
Very true. I suspect this is a function of knowing they almost never get the ball. All basketball players want to shoot/score.
Thought last night was one of our best games, due to better sharing of the ball and getting bigs involved. It's good for morale, and keeps bigs engaged.
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In rhythm. No one close. Good shot.
I think you meant to say the shot was nowhere close.
If EM would have shot an open 3 in flow and rhythm of the offense, you may think that’s a good shot.
Both shots would be out of his range.
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All of this boils down to it is better to have depth than not. We're worse for not having Ed on the bench.
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All of this boils down to it is better to have depth than not. We're worse for not having Ed on the bench.
Whatever his limitations, its better to have him available.
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I think you meant to say the shot was nowhere close.
If EM would have shot an open 3 in flow and rhythm of the offense, you may think that’s a good shot.
Both shots would be out of his range.
It wasn't a three. It was a tad past the free throw line. No problem with the shot whatsoever, and I'm about 99% sure that it had nothing to do with any "benching" since he played later that game.
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Whatever his limitations, its better to have him available.
Yep, Theo aggravates his hand, both he and Jayce get into foul trouble, we run into a matchup in the tourney where we absolutely have to have 2 bigs on the floor.
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Ed was generally fine as long as the ball was not in his hands. Seemingly gave max effort. Just very limited offensively and in 2 years his footwork probably got worse.
Are we better with him available? Sure. But if someone said I had to pick 1 scholarship player to leave the team, it would be Ed.
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It wasn't a three. It was a tad past the free throw line. No problem with the shot whatsoever, and I'm about 99% sure that it had nothing to do with any "benching" since he played later that game.
Didn’t say it was a 3 and didn’t mention anything about the subsequent benching.
There was a reason he was open, as you said.
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Didn’t say it was a 3
But you brought up a hypothetical three in an absurd way to discredit my thought that a free throw line jumper was a bad shot. It wasn't.
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But you brought up a hypothetical three in an absurd way to discredit my thought that a free throw line jumper was a bad shot. It wasn't.
Would EM taking an open 3 within the rhythm of the offense been a good shot?
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I hope he is able to return. The team is better with him.
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Tweet said family stuff. I’ll assume family stuff until proven otherwise.
No, the tweet said nothing about family stuff. It said "personal reasons".
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Yep, Theo aggravates his hand, both he and Jayce get into foul trouble, we run into a matchup in the tourney where we absolutely have to have 2 bigs on the floor.
Spot on!
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Very true. I suspect this is a function of knowing they almost never get the ball. All basketball players want to shoot/score.
Thought last night was one of our best games, due to better sharing of the ball and getting bigs involved. It's good for morale, and keeps bigs engaged.
Actually it was one of their best games because they played fast...like they are supposed to be doing. Their transition game was on point last night. THAT is how Wojo's offense is supposed to look. You look at the numbers, they are one of the best transition teams in the country...so why they haven't been playing that way more...is anyone's guess. Amazing what happens when you actually go back to doing what you were built to do all along.
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Actually it was one of their best games because they played fast...like they are supposed to be doing. Their transition game was on point last night. THAT is how Wojo's offense is supposed to look. You look at the numbers, they are one of the best transition teams in the country...so why they haven't been playing that way more...is anyone's guess. Amazing what happens when you actually go back to doing what you were built to do all along.
Because they don't force many turnovers, so it's tough to get into transition.
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In rhythm. No one close. Good shot.
If you like a 21% chance (generously) to make it, sure.
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Actually it was one of their best games because they played fast...like they are supposed to be doing. Their transition game was on point last night. THAT is how Wojo's offense is supposed to look. You look at the numbers, they are one of the best transition teams in the country...so why they haven't been playing that way more...is anyone's guess. Amazing what happens when you actually go back to doing what you were built to do all along.
I like when we play fast (but in control), also. We have several guards/wings who are pretty darn good when we get on a roll like that, and even our bigs run the floor quite well.
The problem is we force very few live-ball turnovers, so we don't get those easy run-and-gun points. Also, we often are a little loose with the ball ourselves, so we waste some of the opportunities we do get.
Also, sometimes the other team does deserve credit, you know. They have good coaches and fine athletes and smart players, too. Sometimes, the opponent is playing so well -- taking care of the ball, grabbing some offensive rebounds, making shots -- that it's difficult for us to play fast. It happens.
There probably were Nova fans wondering why they didn't do this or that against us. Maybe part of the reason was we didn't let them.
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Would EM taking an open 3 within the rhythm of the offense been a good shot?
No
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Me either.....and I suspect the % wouldn’t increase much for EM when moving 4’ closer.
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I heard he's on vacation. The guy loves to travel...
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I heard he's on vacation. The guy loves to travel...
I laughed.
And teal was unnecessary.
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I hope he is able to return. The team is better with him.
Agreed. The fact that they've left it open ended would seem he didn't burn all bridges on his way out. But Wojo comment on it in the post gamer was fairly telling - he basically just said "No idea if we'll get him back. We'll have to play by ear." He clearly wasn't interested in discussing it, and Markus body language when the question was asked was also telling. He immediately dropped his head and looked down at the stat sheet.
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Agreed. The fact that they've left it open ended would seem he didn't burn all bridges on his way out. But Wojo comment on it in the post gamer was fairly telling - he basically just said "No idea if we'll get him back. We'll have to play by ear." He clearly wasn't interested in discussing it, and Markus body language when the question was asked was also telling. He immediately dropped his head and looked down at the stat sheet.
He then left in the middle.
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He then left in the middle.
I don't think that had anything to do with Ed, or being upset or anything. I think Markus probably just felt his questions were done and wanted to get back with his teammates.
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I don't think that had anything to do with Ed, or being upset or anything. I think Markus probably just felt his questions were done and wanted to get back with his teammates.
sacar did that last year in a presser, I think. Post game therapy, I would guess.
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Has anyone obtained a copy of the letter yet?
For me, Ed was an x-factor to this season. Had the ability to push this team up a notch. Didn't pan out. The turnovers - especially the traveling - was borderline bizarre tbh.
I do hope he comes back and does well.
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Has anyone obtained a copy of the letter yet?
For me, Ed was an x-factor to this season. Had the ability to push this team up a notch. Didn't pan out. The turnovers - especially the traveling - was borderline bizarre tbh.
I do hope he comes back and does well.
Agreed. He brought a ton of intensity on the defensive end. It seemed his focus was waning and definitely was not as sure of himself this year from appearances. I hope he returns to teh team with renewed focus.
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Three of our top 6 rotation guys from last year have just got up and walked away.
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Not sure I buy the “we’re better with Ed” narrative. It’s the safe thing to say at this point, but I don’t think it’s necessarily true. Imo, the ideal number of guys in a rotation is 8 which is what we had last night. I just don’t think depth equals better, in this case anyway.
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Three of our top 6 rotation guys from last year have just got up and walked away.
Charty played more than Morrow last year.
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He then left in the middle.
Yeah but I don't think this had anything to do with anything relevant. It looked like someone off camera was talking to him or asked him a question, because he looked like he turned to that person and was like, "Right now?" As in he was being asked to go somewhere right then by whoever that was. Then he grabbed his stuff and left as if he was told it's time. I wouldn't read into it at all.
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I think it's safe to say he thought(or was told more likely) he would be playing the 4 this year, as he worked on his jump shot all summer long, and there were even videos of him in practice before the season started taking and hitting deep 3's with good form etc.
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Maybe he just wanted to free up a few more shots for Markus.
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Not sure I buy the “we’re better with Ed” narrative. It’s the safe thing to say at this point, but I don’t think it’s necessarily true. Imo, the ideal number of guys in a rotation is 8 which is what we had last night. I just don’t think depth equals better, in this case anyway.
Just having the extra big body and fouls available is a plus. It's especially so at a position with guys who tend to be foul-prone. If such a player is willing to wait for his number to be called, rather than get upset at lack of PT, it's a big bonus to have that person available. There already have been four games in which both Theo and Jayce have both had 3+ fouls, including a combined 9 fouls vs Davidson, and that was with a third option able to play double-digit minutes. Against USC, Jayce and Morrow fouled out and Theo had 4. As long as team chemistry isn't affected, it never hurts to have more bigs available.
Three of our top 6 rotation guys from last year have just got up and walked away.
Morrow was 7th in minutes played, and was only a few minutes ahead of Bailey, who clearly has surpassed him in importance.
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Just having the extra big body and fouls available is a plus. It's especially so at a position with guys who tend to be foul-prone. If such a player is willing to wait for his number to be called, rather than get upset at lack of PT, it's a big bonus to have that person available. There already have been four games in which both Theo and Jayce have both had 3+ fouls, including a combined 9 fouls vs Davidson, and that was with a third option able to play double-digit minutes. Against USC, Jayce and Morrow fouled out and Theo had 4. As long as team chemistry isn't affected, it never hurts to have more bigs available.
Morrow was 7th in minutes played, and was only a few minutes ahead of Bailey, who clearly has surpassed him in importance.
Just maybe, Wojo might think of playing zone, lets say 5 minutes a game, to hide the centers. Providence played a zone against St. Johns, why, because they can not
shot the ball, should have played it against X, they can not shoot the ball either.
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Maybe he just wanted to free up a few more shots for Markus.
Would still love for you to explain Ed Morrow's "high basketball IQ" since I'm completely confused by that notion.
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onepost
I have little interest in having interaction with you on any basketball related topic. I find you to be combative and generally lacking in understanding the game. Best of luck to you!!
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LOL
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Has anyone obtained a copy of the letter yet?
For me, Ed was an x-factor to this season. Had the ability to push this team up a notch. Didn't pan out. The turnovers - especially the traveling - was borderline bizarre tbh.
I do hope he comes back and does well.
Agreed.
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I heard he's on vacation. The guy loves to travel...
Man. That. Was. Cold.
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IMO "High basketball IQ" is one of, if not the, most overused cliches in the sport. The vast majority of the time, the player with the "higher IQ" just comes down to experience. At the beginning of last year, Ed had played 2 full collegiate seasons, and had another year learning the system/working on his game, whereas Theo was a true Sophomore that only surpassed 20 minutes twice in his Freshman campaign due to learning how to play at the collegiate level/foul troube/"low IQ" if you will. at that point in time, I would have hoped that Ed had a higher bball IQ. Despite still needing to do a better job of knowing when to stay on his feet, IMO this season Theo's bball IQ has easily surpassed Ed's.
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LOL
+1
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Frankly, I like Jayce in the middle--starter or number 2. He rebounds
and kicks the ball out for a break or reset more than Theo or Ed.
Knows his role.
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It's really a shame we'll see Ed retire from the program without having passed out of a triple-team 2 feet from the hoop.
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Hope he comes back. Senior leadership is important, he busts his butt and is a positive force.
I’d like to see him honored on senior day like the rest of the seniors.
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On the flipside, our bigs are generally not very good at kicking the ball back out if they don't have a good look. Once the ball gets into the paint, it stays there. I think our big guys force too many shots just because they're close to the hoop. Especially for a group that is more defense-focused than offense-focused, I'd like to see them get the ball back out to scorers more often.
100%. I think they'd ultimately get the ball back more often and in even better positions to score if their defenders have in the back of their heads that they might need to sprint out to guard the 3 line off a pass. Get them thinking rather than read/reacting, and get them off their heels more.
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IMO "High basketball IQ" is one of, if not the, most overused cliches in the sport. The vast majority of the time, the player with the "higher IQ" just comes down to experience. At the beginning of last year, Ed had played 2 full collegiate seasons, and had another year learning the system/working on his game, whereas Theo was a true Sophomore that only surpassed 20 minutes twice in his Freshman campaign due to learning how to play at the collegiate level/foul troube/"low IQ" if you will. at that point in time, I would have hoped that Ed had a higher bball IQ. Despite still needing to do a better job of knowing when to stay on his feet, IMO this season Theo's bball IQ has easily surpassed Ed's.
Theo still sells out for the block. He lets people drive instead of getting in their way, he does not wall up to make shots difficult, he abandons rebounding position, all to chase blocks. He's pretty good at blocking or altering shots, but I think if he played with a little more smarts he could really be something on defense.
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100%. I think they'd ultimately get the ball back more often and in even better positions to score if their defenders have in the back of their heads that they might need to sprint out to guard the 3 line off a pass. Get them thinking rather than read/reacting, and get them off their heels more.
Good post, +1
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DJO
Basketball IQ is very under rated by many. If you look back over just the Wojo era and grade out ball IQ, most our the best players from Wojo era. Some of them were grad school transfers and some game in as freshmen. Guys that know the game learn it a very young age. Becoming a sophmore or junior is making someone have a higher ball IQ. You can be a great player without having a high ball IQ, but do not underestimate the value of knowing the game.
Prime example, we still have guys that will jump four feet out of bounds under the defensive basket to save a ball. We have guys that do not know where to feed the ball to Theo when he open down low. Simple things done right make every team better. You can have your opinion, but I will take a high IQ Cain over current Cain any day of the week.
CT Warrior
Spot on in regards to Theo.
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DJO
Basketball IQ is very under rated by many. If you look back over just the Wojo era and grade out ball IQ, most our the best players from Wojo era. Some of them were grad school transfers and some game in as freshmen. Guys that know the game learn it a very young age. Becoming a sophmore or junior is making someone have a higher ball IQ. You can be a great player without having a high ball IQ, but do not underestimate the value of knowing the game.
Prime example, we still have guys that will jump four feet out of bounds under the defensive basket to save a ball. We have guys that do not know where to feed the ball to Theo when he open down low. Simple things done right make every team better. You can have your opinion, but I will take a high IQ Cain over current Cain any day of the week.
CT Warrior
Spot on in regards to Theo.
Not disagreeing that you would take a high IQ Cain over a low IQ Cain, jut think that the vast majority of the IQ development comes from in game experience, and time spent in the system. When Theo and Ed first started competing for minutes, Ed had three years of college experience, while Theo had one. There will always be some exceptions, but, the vast majority of the time, the player with three times as much experience is going to have a higher IQ. Now that the percentages have naturally started to even out, Theo is catching/passing Ed in IQ IMO. Also worth noting that as smart of a player that he is, he's never going to "think" his way into another 2 inches and 20 lbs that Theo currently has on him.
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I've never watched Ed and thought he was a high IQ player. He is a high motor player. Plays tough. But very few times when he makes plays am I like "wow, that was a smart play." Not ragging on the guy - I hope he comes back. But I don't think our team IQ went down if he doesn't.
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Not disagreeing that you would take a high IQ Cain over a low IQ Cain, jut think that the vast majority of the IQ development comes from in game experience, and time spent in the system. When Theo and Ed first started competing for minutes, Ed had three years of college experience, while Theo had one. There will always be some exceptions, but, the vast majority of the time, the player with three times as much experience is going to have a higher IQ. Now that the percentages have naturally started to even out, Theo is catching/passing Ed in IQ IMO. Also worth noting that as smart of a player that he is, he's never going to "think" his way into another 2 inches and 20 lbs that Theo currently has on him.
Classic subjective vs objective.
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One measure of Theo's improvement on defense is his foul rate:
2017-18: 8.3 fouls/40 min
2018-19: 7.4 fouls/40 min
2019-20: 6.3 fouls/40 min
He's still too foul-prone, which limits his minutes and overall effectiveness. And he's wildly inconsistent; after one of his strongest defensive efforts of the season against Villanova (4 blocks and 1 foul in 33 minutes), he fouled out of the next two games, playing just 14 minutes in each.
Overall, he is getting better -- slowly but surely.
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onepost
I have little interest in having interaction with you on any basketball related topic. I find you to be combative and generally lacking in understanding the game. Best of luck to you!!
Can't say I'm heartbroken to hear that, as I generally don't agree with you on many things and find you equally unpleasant.
If you feel I'm particularly awful to deal with, I'm stunned you've stuck around this board long enough to rack up 6400 posts (a feat I'm sure you're very proud of!!).
But please don't confuse my sporadic posting history and preference to primarily talk in-game MUBB with friends who don't outwardly loathe this program with a lack of understanding about the game. And coming from someone who thinks Ed Morrow is an intelligent basketball player.......pot meet kettle.
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I've never watched Ed and thought he was a high IQ player. He is a high motor player. Plays tough. But very few times when he makes plays am I like "wow, that was a smart play." Not ragging on the guy - I hope he comes back. But I don't think our team IQ went down if he doesn't.
Correct, high energy and tough. If he could have perfected two to three basic moves around the basket so that he could have made more layups without traveling his value would have been very high on this team. Not sure I’m seeing the IQ argument either way.
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onepost
Sounds good.
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Correct, high energy and tough. If he could have perfected two to three basic moves around the basket so that he could have made more layups without traveling his value would have been very high on this team. Not sure I’m seeing the IQ argument either way.
Yeah ... Ed might very well have a brilliant basketball mind, but that doesn't often translate into what his body does on the court.
I hope that doesn't sound like a knock. I hope he comes back and continues to contribute to the team, obviously.
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Hes a very good player. Worked hard. Absolutely sucks if we lose him.
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Pakuni
Agree with your post. I simply said I feel Ed has a higher ball IQ than Theo and I would have played him over Theo. I am not confusing Ed with the great player IQ minds out there, was comparing him to Theo.
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Correct, high energy and tough. If he could have perfected two to three basic moves around the basket so that he could have made more layups without traveling his value would have been very high on this team. Not sure I’m seeing the IQ argument either way.
All this, and the obvious size disadvantage for the role he was being asked to fill at times. Traveling is often the byproduct of trying to get a shot off quickly to avoid having it blocked.
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All this, and the obvious size disadvantage for the role he was being asked to fill at times. Traveling is often the byproduct of trying to get a shot off quickly to avoid having it blocked.
Actually, Ed’s traveling issue is more about taking too long to shoot. It seems like an eternity when he backs his man down and he takes the extra step(s) to finally get around his opponent who he really can’t shoot over.
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Hes a very good player. Worked hard. Absolutely sucks if we lose him.
I agree that I don't want to lose him. I agree that he works hard. But I disagree that he is a very good player. A very good senior would not be contributing very little.
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UPDATE: One of my all-time best MU buddies has a son that goes to MU now and knows many of the players. So here's the true story...he said the word all over campus is that Morrow quit the team because of the coaches and won't be coming back. No teal here - that is the inside scoop. He bailed out on the rest of the season and the potential to play in the tournament just to get away from WoJo. And that comes after wanting to transfer here so bad he sat out for a year.
So think about that...Morrow is a 5th year senior with no chance of transferring anywhere now. And yet he quit the team and gave up on any chance of playing in the tournament in his last season simply because he couldn't stand another minute of playing for WoJo. I think that's what we were all afraid of but were hoping wasn't the case. So now the reality is that 25% of last year's scholarship players walked away from a team that was projected to be in the top 5 this year solely for the reason that they didn't like playing for WoJo.
Don't shoot the messenger here - I'm just telling you what I heard from a very reliable current student on campus.
Discuss...
(p.s. - for the record I'm a WoJo supporter)
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I'd like to see Ed come back and play, sure he's had some challenges but I would expect we need 10-15 mins from him moving forward and he plays hard always.
If he isn't coming back I hope he starts working on his NFL Combine skills and goes the Antonio Gates/Mo Alie-Cox route to NFL TE
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nm
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UPDATE: One of my all-time best MU buddies has a son that goes to MU now and knows many of the players. So here's the true story...he said the word all over campus is that Morrow quit the team because of the coaches and won't be coming back. No teal here - that is the inside scoop. He bailed out on the rest of the season and the potential to play in the tournament just to get away from WoJo. And that comes after wanting to transfer here so bad he sat out for a year.
So think about that...Morrow is a 5th year senior with no chance of transferring anywhere now. And yet he quit the team and gave up on any chance of playing in the tournament in his last season simply because he couldn't stand another minute of playing for WoJo. I think that's what we were all afraid of but were hoping wasn't the case. So now the reality is that 25% of last year's scholarship players walked away from a team that was projected to be in the top 5 this year solely for the reason that they didn't like playing for WoJo.
Don't shoot the messenger here - I'm just telling you what I heard from a very reliable current student on campus.
Discuss...
(p.s. - for the record I'm a WoJo supporter)
Fine. Let's circle the wagons and win with the guys that want to be here. I suppose I wouldn't be especially fond of a coach that demoted me to 3rd at a position when I was in my last semester of eligibility, but the fact is that he earned that 3rd spot. So being a coach isn't a popularity contest. The bench players aren't always going to be happy. Good for Wojo for bringing in Jayce so we don't really need Ed.
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UPDATE: One of my all-time best MU buddies has a son that goes to MU now and knows many of the players. So here's the true story...he said the word all over campus is that Morrow quit the team because of the coaches and won't be coming back. No teal here - that is the inside scoop. He bailed out on the rest of the season and the potential to play in the tournament just to get away from WoJo. And that comes after wanting to transfer here so bad he sat out for a year.
So think about that...Morrow is a 5th year senior with no chance of transferring anywhere now. And yet he quit the team and gave up on any chance of playing in the tournament in his last season simply because he couldn't stand another minute of playing for WoJo. I think that's what we were all afraid of but were hoping wasn't the case. So now the reality is that 25% of last year's scholarship players walked away from a team that was projected to be in the top 5 this year solely for the reason that they didn't like playing for WoJo.
Don't shoot the messenger here - I'm just telling you what I heard from a very reliable current student on campus.
Discuss...
(p.s. - for the record I'm a WoJo supporter)
He said he was quitting just to get away from wojo???
And if i had a nickel for every senior on a sports team that quit after realizing he was the last man on the bench and playing time frustrations that then disparraged the cost, I would be very rich!!
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At least we’re back to having a team full of guys who “want to be Warriors”. I know we thought that’s what we had to begin the season, but this time it’s for real for real.
It’s too bad for both sides that MU didn’t work out for Ed. He had a few good games last season, but his biggest impact was joining Harry and Koby as yet another cog in the “wait till next year when we get the one piece we were really missing” machine. As for the rest of 2019-20, we’ll miss his five fouls and that’s about it.
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Actually, Ed’s traveling issue is more about taking too long to shoot. It seems like an eternity when he backs his man down and he takes the extra step(s) to finally get around his opponent who he really can’t shoot over.
I have seen Ed get called for traveling when shuffling his feet in the post after receiving an entry pass and trying to get the shot off before a defender recovers. I have also seen Ed get called for traveling in the situation you describe. Either way, he is trying to avoid getting his shot blocked. Possibly, and very likely due to his size disadvantage.
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I have seen Ed get called for traveling when shuffling his feet in the post after receiving an entry pass and trying to get the shot off before a defender recovers. I have also seen Ed get called for traveling in the situation you describe. Either way, he is trying to avoid getting his shot blocked. Possibly, and very likely due to his size disadvantage.
Was really hoping he would develop into a slightly taller Lazar Hayward or even if he needed to play below the rim be like Crowder with the layups.
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As someone who was also pretty well connected with the basketball/volleyball teams during his tenure at Marquette, no average student gets that kind of inside info from student athletes, no matter how close they are. I'm guessing it ended up being a giant game of telephone.
Maybe it's true, maybe it's not, but I knew Steve Taylor pretty well and when I straight up asked him if he's going to stick around after Buzz left all I got was a "I dunno."
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Ed always struck me as a great teammate who gave it everything he had. The ultimate effort guy. I hope he comes back. Even coming off the bench behind Theo and Jayce, he can still help the team. I'm sure Theo would say practicing against Ed has helped him become a better player. Whatever he ultimately decides, I wish him the best.
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UPDATE: One of my all-time best MU buddies has a son that goes to MU now and knows many of the players. So here's the true story...he said the word all over campus is that Morrow quit the team because of the coaches and won't be coming back. No teal here - that is the inside scoop. He bailed out on the rest of the season and the potential to play in the tournament just to get away from WoJo. And that comes after wanting to transfer here so bad he sat out for a year.
So in one sentence you say he quit the team because of the COACHES and then two sentences later you say it was to get away from WOJO. Hard to take a post very seriously with that kind of discrepancy.
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Just maybe, Wojo might think of playing zone, lets say 5 minutes a game, to hide the centers. Providence played a zone against St. Johns, why, because they can not
shot the ball, should have played it against X, they can not shoot the ball either.
So the game Marquette won by 20 and crushed X on the glass, Wojo had the wrong defense all along?
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UPDATE: One of my all-time best MU buddies has a son that goes to MU now and knows many of the players. So here's the true story...he said the word all over campus is that Morrow quit the team because of the coaches and won't be coming back. No teal here - that is the inside scoop. He bailed out on the rest of the season and the potential to play in the tournament just to get away from WoJo. And that comes after wanting to transfer here so bad he sat out for a year.
So think about that...Morrow is a 5th year senior with no chance of transferring anywhere now. And yet he quit the team and gave up on any chance of playing in the tournament in his last season simply because he couldn't stand another minute of playing for WoJo. I think that's what we were all afraid of but were hoping wasn't the case. So now the reality is that 25% of last year's scholarship players walked away from a team that was projected to be in the top 5 this year solely for the reason that they didn't like playing for WoJo.
Don't shoot the messenger here - I'm just telling you what I heard from a very reliable current student on campus.
Discuss...
(p.s. - for the record I'm a WoJo supporter)
Sounds a lot like last February.
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He said he was quitting just to get away from wojo???
And if i had a nickel for every senior on a sports team that quit after realizing he was the last man on the bench and playing time frustrations that then disparraged the cost, I would be very rich!!
Can you name any seniors on high major basketball teams that quit mid-season and disparaged the coach? I’m guessing you won’t be very rich.
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Sounds a lot like last February.
you are hearing what you want to hear
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Can you name any seniors on high major basketball teams that quit mid-season and disparaged the coach? I’m guessing you won’t be very rich.
Disparaged the coach hey?
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UPDATE: One of my all-time best MU buddies has a son that goes to MU now and knows many of the players. So here's the true story...he said the word all over campus is that Morrow quit the team because of the coaches and won't be coming back. No teal here - that is the inside scoop. He bailed out on the rest of the season and the potential to play in the tournament just to get away from WoJo. And that comes after wanting to transfer here so bad he sat out for a year.
So think about that...Morrow is a 5th year senior with no chance of transferring anywhere now. And yet he quit the team and gave up on any chance of playing in the tournament in his last season simply because he couldn't stand another minute of playing for WoJo. I think that's what we were all afraid of but were hoping wasn't the case. So now the reality is that 25% of last year's scholarship players walked away from a team that was projected to be in the top 5 this year solely for the reason that they didn't like playing for WoJo.
Don't shoot the messenger here - I'm just telling you what I heard from a very reliable current student on campus.
Discuss...
(p.s. - for the record I'm a WoJo supporter)
Thanks for sharing. I’m not surprised.
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Can you name any seniors on high major basketball teams that quit mid-season and disparaged the coach? I’m guessing you won’t be very rich.
Can you point to where he did that because all I see is second and third hand? Let me know when you find something.
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Can you point to where he did that because all I see is second and third hand? Let me know when you find something.
In your never ending obsession to argue with me (and virtually everyone else in Scoop) - you’ve once again failed. Go back and read Sandknits post that I quoted.
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Maybe the Love House's info is correct.
The game of telephone is definitely a b*tch....especially when everyone in the chain has an agenda.
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In your never ending obsession to argue with me (and virtually everyone else in Scoop) - you’ve once again failed. Go back and read Sandknits post that I quoted.
I argue with people that are wrong. You made a statement that was wrong, or at least not substantiated by any real evidence. You said he disparaged the coach....did you or did you not say that?
I’m asking for evidence where he disparaged the coach. Please show it.
Thank you
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I argue with people that are wrong. You made a statement that was wrong, or at least not substantiated by any real evidence. You said he disparaged the coach....did you or did you not say that?
I’m asking for evidence where he disparaged the coach. Please show it.
Thank you
When people see you coming and turn around and walk the other direction, they are disparaging you.
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When people see you coming and turn around and walk the other direction, they are disparaging you.
People come to me and embrace me.
I’m sorry last night didn’t go well for you.
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There was some smoke around other players departing after Hausergate, and I believe Ed was one of them. He was ultimately talked into staying. If his feelings about Wojo are what lead to him leaving I’m not sure he’s alone in feeling that way. Hopefully he is though and hopefully we’re better off (if this story is accurate).
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People come to me and embrace me.
I’m sorry last night didn’t go well for you.
You would argue with a brick
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I can see Ed being pissed about losing minutes to the new guy Wojo brought in at his position and leaving as a result.
I’d rather have Jayce.
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Hope he comes back. Senior leadership is important, he busts his butt and is a positive force.
I’d like to see him honored on senior day like the rest of the seniors.
He gowne, hey?
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Oh well. 5 fouls lost is about the biggest impact. Hope he changes his mind, but not counting on it.
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So the game Marquette won by 20 and crushed X on the glass, Wojo had the wrong defense all along?
I don't think that's the point of his post.
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He gowne, hey?
https://f4.bcbits.com/img/a3177690132_10.jpg
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God damn I hope it doesn't come out that Ed's brother or something died. For his sake and all of yours
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I heard he's on vacation. The guy loves to travel...
Sorry to hear about Ed. Hope he comes back to the team. But this post had me LOL so kudos to Bubba (teal unnecessary).
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/83e9f264560cb0f7347e86610d9fb318/tenor.gif?itemid=4268615)
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You would argue with a brick
Well, you do fill the role.
There are also countless people here I never argue with....must not be bricks.
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None of us know yet why Ed left.
If he left because there is a family issue or some other serious personal problem, I hope things work out well for him and his family.
If he left because he was, essentially, recruited over and he lost his minutes to Jayce ... that's life in college sports. A coach has to always be recruiting. I am very glad Wojo brought in Jayce; after recovering from his injury and then having to get back into playing shape, he has been a solid role player in most games for us.
If he left because he hates the coach or one or more of his teammates, I'm glad he used the exit ramp because we don't need bad chemistry. Even in this scenario, I have no ill will toward the young man -- and I don't know why anybody else would, either. I hope he gets another opportunity in basketball, if that's what he wants.
Ed worked hard for the Warriors while he was here, and he was an important participant in a few of our wins, especially against Madison in December 2018. I wish him well.
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So some players have not liked Wojo and left?
Al , KO, Rick, Crean, and Buzz all our members of that club.
I’m sure you can add Bo Ryan to that list along with virtually every other head coach at the d1 level....some guys hate the coach and stay.......and some guys love the coach.....
Mac has said he swore at KO for 4 years......but He didn’t quit.
Best of luck to Ed.......
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Well written research report by Mr Dodd’s
https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.com/college/marquette/Article/Ed-Morrow-Jr-leaves-the-team-for-an-indefinite-period-142289142/Amp/
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Well written research report by Mr Dodd’s
https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.com/college/marquette/Article/Ed-Morrow-Jr-leaves-the-team-for-an-indefinite-period-142289142/Amp/
::)
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I don't think that's the point of his post.
Err, well, he said Wojo should play zone to "hide the bigs" and "should have played it against X". So never mind that MU won by 20, Theo and Jayce both had really good games, and MU dominated the boards...Wojo should have played zone. ::)
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::)
He’s like a 2.0 college student trying to hit his minimum required character count with all the periods he uses.
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Well, you do fill the role.
There are also countless people here I never argue with....must not be bricks.
"The desire to be right all the time, push buttons, get the last word in, etc. Just not good... UGH. Embarrassing." --Jams
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So some players have not liked Wojo and left?
Al , KO, Rick, Crean, and Buzz all our members of that club.
I’m sure you can add Bo Ryan to that list along with virtually every other head coach at the d1 level....some guys hate the coach and stay.......and some guys love the coach.....
Mac has said he swore at KO for 4 years......but He didn’t quit.
Best of luck to Ed.......
Yep.
Buzz lost a crap-ton of transfers; as was the case with Wojo, most of them weren't consequential but a couple might have been. KO damn near suffered a mutiny when he was at Northwestern.
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UPDATE: One of my all-time best MU buddies has a son that goes to MU now and knows many of the players. So here's the true story...he said the word all over campus is that Morrow quit the team because of the coaches and won't be coming back. No teal here - that is the inside scoop. He bailed out on the rest of the season and the potential to play in the tournament just to get away from WoJo. And that comes after wanting to transfer here so bad he sat out for a year.
So think about that...Morrow is a 5th year senior with no chance of transferring anywhere now. And yet he quit the team and gave up on any chance of playing in the tournament in his last season simply because he couldn't stand another minute of playing for WoJo. I think that's what we were all afraid of but were hoping wasn't the case. So now the reality is that 25% of last year's scholarship players walked away from a team that was projected to be in the top 5 this year solely for the reason that they didn't like playing for WoJo.
Don't shoot the messenger here - I'm just telling you what I heard from a very reliable current student on campus.
Discuss...
(p.s. - for the record I'm a WoJo supporter)
Think about this: You're "reporting" fifth-hand information -- not from Ed, not from a player who talked to Ed, not from a student who talked to a player who talked to Ed, but from the father of a student who talked to a player who talked to Ed. All completely anonymous, of course. While there may ultimately be some truth in this, it's anything but reliable.
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None of us know yet why Ed left.
If he left because there is a family issue or some other serious personal problem, I hope things work out well for him and his family.
If he left because he was, essentially, recruited over and he lost his minutes to Jayce ... that's life in college sports. A coach has to always be recruiting. I am very glad Wojo brought in Jayce; after recovering from his injury and then having to get back into playing shape, he has been a solid role player in most games for us.
If he left because he hates the coach or one or more of his teammates, I'm glad he used the exit ramp because we don't need bad chemistry. Even in this scenario, I have no ill will toward the young man -- and I don't know why anybody else would, either. I hope he gets another opportunity in basketball, if that's what he wants.
Ed worked hard for the Warriors while he was here, and he was an important participant in a few of our wins, especially against Madison in December 2018. I wish him well.
I mean, I think we kinda know why he left.
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Well written research report by Mr Dodd’s
https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.com/college/marquette/Article/Ed-Morrow-Jr-leaves-the-team-for-an-indefinite-period-142289142/Amp/
Thanks, Herman ... so page 9 and no one has any idea what he left for an indefinite period.
So we watch everyone cover themselves in shame either making sh!t up or trashing him.
disgusting
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Well written research report by Mr Dodd’s
https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.com/college/marquette/Article/Ed-Morrow-Jr-leaves-the-team-for-an-indefinite-period-142289142/Amp/
WTF did I just read?
That wasn’t research. Or a report. It was like a letter about an ex that you wish was still in your bed.
That was terrible. I don’t know this doods guy y’all read and talk about. But this was terrible. I... I just don’t even know.
Put the keyboard down man.
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I mean, I think we kinda know why he left.
Actually we do not. It could be deeply personal and Wojo is covering for him.
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Please also put me in the camp of I hope Morrow comes back. And I hope he is ok. And I hope his family isn’t involved.
I also hope if there is a problem, he is able to look past it for a few more months and get his degree etc.
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Thanks, Herman ... so page 9 and no one has any idea what he left for an indefinite period.
So we watch everyone cover themselves in shame either making sh!t up or trashing him.
disgusting
For a guy who often speculates, and is usually spectacularly wrong in the process, one would think you’d be more sympathetic.
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Actually we do not. It could be deeply personal and Wojo is covering for him.
Actually I’m pretty sure given what I have heard here and elsewhere.
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He said he was quitting just to get away from wojo???
And if i had a nickel for every senior on a sports team that quit after realizing he was the last man on the bench and playing time frustrations that then disparraged the cost, I would be very rich!!
Yes, this is it. People quit when they know it’s over. It’s a convenient excuse to blame the coach. Objectively he was not producing as much as he would have liked. That is not the coaches fault. Still hoping the door is open for a return.
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For a guy who often speculates, and is usually spectacularly wrong in the process, one would think you’d be more sympathetic.
sympathetic to what? Anonymous posters attacking a kid on a basketball team? They only deserve scorn and disrespect.
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sympathetic to what? Anonymous posters attacking a kid on a basketball team? They only deserve scorn and disrespect.
Lol. No attacking going on here. Just a honest reasoning for why he left.
But you be you Heisey. Keep being wrong.
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He’s like a 2.0 college student trying to hit his minimum required character count with all the periods he uses.
It's unreadable.
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It's unreadable.
How some people still consider him the preeminent source of Marquette hoops is beyond me.
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Well, you do fill the role.
There are also countless people here I never argue with....must not be bricks.
Those are the people who have you on ignore.
Posting during work hours? You on vacation AGAIN?
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Those are the people who have you on ignore.
Posting during work hours? You on vacation AGAIN?
I don’t argue wit 4ever, Rocket, CT, Herman, Real, etc etc, etc. I may have at one time, but pretty rarely.
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People come to me and embrace me.
You have a plaque to prove it!
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You have a plaque to prove it!
No, but great idea.
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Yes, this is it. People quit when they know it’s over. It’s a convenient excuse to blame the coach. Objectively he was not producing as much as he would have liked. That is not the coaches fault. Still hoping the door is open for a return.
Go look at Ed's playing time during his time at MU. It was ALL over the place. He never played more than 26 minutes in a game at MU. He played 10 games at Nebraska his sophomore year of 26+ and had 7 DNP's due to injury.
Ed wasn't going to be a superstar, but how could he showcase his full capabilities when vacillating generally between 0 to 16 minutes per game? Wojo needs to work on dialing in a set rotations and roles. Hard to be consistent when your experience and playing time as a player is anything but consistent.
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Cheeks is in an argument over how much he argues.
(https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/time-is-a-flat-circle-gif-8.gif)
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Go look at Ed's playing time during his time at MU. It was ALL over the place. He never played more than 26 minutes in a game at MU. He played 10 games at Nebraska his sophomore year of 26+ and had 7 DNP's due to injury.
Ed wasn't going to be a superstar, but how could he showcase his full capabilities when vacillating generally between 0 to 16 minutes per game? Wojo needs to work on dialing in a set rotations and roles. Hard to be consistent when your experience and playing time as a player is anything but consistent.
Injuries. He wasn’t able to bring it consistently. Love the guy. Hope he comes back, seems like a good dude with a lot of big energy. If it is over, that’s a shame. You play for a coach, you also play for your brothers, your school and yourself. Hopefully it works out.
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Injuries. He wasn’t able to bring it consistently. Love the guy. Hope he comes back, seems like a good dude with a lot of big energy. If it is over, that’s a shame. You play for a coach, you also play for your brothers, your school and yourself. Hopefully it works out.
This.
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Cheeks is in an argument over how much he argues.
(https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/time-is-a-flat-circle-gif-8.gif)
I don’t think you understand what argue is...having a nice, pleasant conversation...a discussion.
Hey, did you read the Players Trib PR “thing” today on Jimmy Butler?
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Go look at Ed's playing time during his time at MU. It was ALL over the place. He never played more than 26 minutes in a game at MU. He played 10 games at Nebraska his sophomore year of 26+ and had 7 DNP's due to injury.
Ed wasn't going to be a superstar, but how could he showcase his full capabilities when vacillating generally between 0 to 16 minutes per game? Wojo needs to work on dialing in a set rotations and roles. Hard to be consistent when your experience and playing time as a player is anything but consistent.
Honest question; how many minutes do you think it takes to show that you have "it"? If you can't show you have it in the 15 mpg you're getting, why would bumping that up to 20, 25, or 30 prove that you can be productive enough to earn those minutes?
Let's also keep in mind that minutes in game account for what, about 10% of time playing basketball as a student athlete, and the other 90% or so is behind closed doors when none of us can observe. Unless you're a fly on the wall for every practice, you probably can't gauge the depth chart as well as the coaching staff.
Again, wish Ed well, hope he comes back, but the minute distribution this year has been pretty accurate to what's been deserved based on in-game performance IMO.
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Go look at Ed's playing time during his time at MU. It was ALL over the place. He never played more than 26 minutes in a game at MU. He played 10 games at Nebraska his sophomore year of 26+ and had 7 DNP's due to injury.
Ed wasn't going to be a superstar, but how could he showcase his full capabilities when vacillating generally between 0 to 16 minutes per game? Wojo needs to work on dialing in a set rotations and roles. Hard to be consistent when your experience and playing time as a player is anything but consistent.
How many minutes do you think Ed deserved? Please be specific. Cite 10 games in which Ed would have made a difference if only Wojo had used him more.
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Go look at Ed's playing time during his time at MU. It was ALL over the place. He never played more than 26 minutes in a game at MU. He played 10 games at Nebraska his sophomore year of 26+ and had 7 DNP's due to injury.
Ed wasn't going to be a superstar, but how could he showcase his full capabilities when vacillating generally between 0 to 16 minutes per game? Wojo needs to work on dialing in a set rotations and roles. Hard to be consistent when your experience and playing time as a player is anything but consistent.
I understand your argument. I don’t think it’s correct though. Wojo plays the hot hand as do many coaches. He was just never hot. If he demonstrated game in and game out as well as in practices that he was better, we might be having the exact same conversation about Theo leaving. At some point you need to produce. People would be questioning Wojos sanity if he kept playing ineffective players for prolonged periods. This was a no win situation unless Morrow accepted his role and finished his career at MU with his head held high.
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How many minutes do you think Ed deserved? Please be specific. Cite 10 games in which Ed would have made a difference if only Wojo had used him more.
I don’t know. What I do know is that a totally erratic and inconsistent role isn’t helpful to any basketball players production. I also know that getting into a game for a few 3-4 minute segments is NOT the way to extract a player’s best.
As for the “hot hand” theory Shooter mentions above - at what time has Theo or Jayce had a “hot hand?”
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Honest question; how many minutes do you think it takes to show that you have "it"? If you can't show you have it in the 15 mpg you're getting, why would bumping that up to 20, 25, or 30 prove that you can be productive enough to earn those minutes?
Again, wish Ed well, hope he comes back, but the minute distribution this year has been pretty accurate to what's been deserved based on in-game performance IMO.
Exactly correct.
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I don’t know. What I do know is that a totally erratic and inconsistent role isn’t helpful to any basketball players production. I also know that getting into a game for a few 3-4 minute segments is NOT the way to extract a player’s best.
As for the “hot hand” theory Shooter mentions above - at what time has Theo or Jayce had a “hot hand?”
There's literally a television timeout every 4 minutes in college basketball. Not to mention the 4 timeouts per game each team gets and a halftime. If a player can't figure out how to be productive in a 3-4 minute spurt, they aren't going to do it at all in college basketball.
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WTF did I just read?
That wasn’t research. Or a report. It was like a letter about an ex that you wish was still in your bed.
That was terrible. I don’t know this doods guy y’all read and talk about. But this was terrible. I... I just don’t even know.
Put the keyboard down man.
Honestly one of the strangest, creepiest things I've read recently. I had to stop a few paragraphs in because my skin was crawling. Godawful writing too. Simply dreadful.
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Ed came out against Providence after the looooong two point attempt, which is a bad shot for anyone other than Markus or maybe Sacar and a terrible shot for Ed. I expect he didn't play against Seton Hall because he simply doesn't have the size to defend Gill or Obiagu. He was always going to have his minutes contingent on circumstance, just like Jayce has.
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Im close with one of the managers, ed reportedly quit the team
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Im close with one of the managers, ed reportedly quit the team
I believe it. Wojo’s avoidance of any response when directly asked last night by Homer spoke volumes. My guess he’s p’d off what happened. If there was truly a personal reason, injury, illness, etc, he would have offered up something to mention support, concern, whatever, while not giving away any hints what the trouble is.
I don’t blame Wojo a bit either if he is rankled over it.
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Still going to support Ed wherever he ends up next, talked to him once and he is a really nice dude
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There's literally a television timeout every 4 minutes in college basketball. Not to mention the 4 timeouts per game each team gets and a halftime. If a player can't figure out how to be productive in a 3-4 minute spurt, they aren't going to do it at all in college basketball.
You are literally taking it too literally.
If we measured guys production on the is team by 4 minute segments, think you’d find a lot of non factors out there other than Markus.
The over-arching point is that having significant volatility in your playing time and role game to game AND having to navigate a generally short leash in a game - that’s tough sledding for any player.
Nonetheless, just another guy to quit mid-season on Wojo: Burton, Dawson, Cohen, Cheatham, Traci, and now Ed. Nothing to see here.
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Still going to support Ed wherever he ends up next, talked to him once and he is a really nice dude
Next is either back here or pro. He's exhausted his college eligibility unless he wants to finish the season at Marquette.
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I normally wouldn't say this, but for the sake of team unity, it's probably best that Ed left and that he stays gone. Last season showed what malcontent can do to a team. I wish him well but every player on this years team needs to be all in if their going to make the tournament. I know the team is going to miss him at some point the rest of the way, but sacrificing team unity isn't worth one players limited contributions IMHO.
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You are literally taking it too literally.
If we measured guys production on the is team by 4 minute segments, think you’d find a lot of non factors out there other than Markus.
The over-arching point is that having significant volatility in your playing time and role game to game AND having to navigate a generally short leash in a game - that’s tough sledding for any player.
Nonetheless, just another guy to quit mid-season on Wojo: Burton, Dawson, Cohen, Cheatham, Traci, and now Ed. Nothing to see here.
All but one of those guys transferred to smaller, lower tier schools where their skill set was more appropriate. Ed can play at this level, maybe he changes his mind...if not, wish him the best.
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I don’t know.
Thank you for your rare candor.
If Ed had played better, he'd have played more. Wojo has done a very good job managing minutes for the 5 position.
Nonetheless, just another guy to quit mid-season on Wojo: Burton, Dawson, Cohen, Cheatham, Traci, and now Ed.
4 of the 6 guys you named couldn't hack it in the BEast and were being recruited over. They saw the writing on the wall and went to lesser basketball schools in lesser basketball conferences. And it seems Ed saw the writing, too.
Wojo is a horrible coach whom every player hates ... and yet somehow he has landed a top-10 recruiting class. These young men said they chose Marquette in great part because of the camaraderie they felt while getting to know the players and coaches during their campus visits. I guess Wojo must be quite a hypnotist!
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Was also told he quit: and it was obviously less "getting pulled because of one long 2 against Providence" and more "a 5th year senior is frustrated he's fallen down the depth chart and he/the staff didn't see eye to eye on his minutes moving forward".
I'm certain it's been mentioned already but it really is a Catch 22. I'm sure Ed feels he hasn't been able to establish a good rhythm on the court due to a lack of minutes, but it's hard to justify giving him minutes when he's been straight up lousy all season. I feel for Ed because he seems like a genuinely good dude off the court, and his toughness and energy are traits any contending team can use.
While I find it hard to criticize Wojo for not playing a guy who's been a literal anchor for this team (his in-conference +/- of -27 speaks for itself), what's troubling is the track record of guys straight up leaving the program when they've seemingly lost favor with Wojo relative to other players:
- Deonte
- Traci
- Sandy
- Dawson
- (Wally?)
- Haanif
- Harry
- Sam and Joey
- Ed
Outside of the guys who opted to redshirt (Sacar, Greg, Dexter), I can only think of Jamal as a guy who has embraced his role coming off the bench and publicly remained positive while being leapfrogged on the depth chart - Ben Steele story late last season. Despite my vocal concerns with Wojo after Sam and Joey left, I still think he can get it done here. But trends like this are hard to ignore, and if you're not one of his "guys" it seems like a revolving door.
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Was also told he quit: and it was obviously less "getting pulled because of one long 2 against Providence" and more "a 5th year senior is frustrated he's fallen down the depth chart and he/the staff didn't see eye to eye on his minutes moving forward".
I'm certain it's been mentioned already but it really is a Catch 22. I'm sure Ed feels he hasn't been able to establish a good rhythm on the court due to a lack of minutes, but it's hard to justify giving him minutes when he's been straight up lousy all season. I feel for Ed because he seems like a genuinely good dude off the court, and his toughness and energy are traits any contending team can use.
While I find it hard to criticize Wojo for not playing a guy who's been a literal anchor for this team (his in-conference +/- of -27 speaks for itself), what's troubling is the track record of guys straight up leaving the program when they've seemingly lost favor with Wojo relative to other players:
- Deonte
- Traci
- Sandy
- Dawson
- (Wally?)
- Haanif
- Harry
- Sam and Joey
- Ed
Outside of the guys who opted to redshirt (Sacar, Greg, Dexter), I can only think of Jamal as a guy who has embraced his role coming off the bench and publicly remained positive while being leapfrogged on the depth chart - Ben Steele story late last season. Despite my vocal concerns with Wojo after Sam and Joey left, I still think he can get it done here. But trends like this are hard to ignore, and if you're not one of his "guys" it seems like a revolving door.
Much of that list....didn’t pan out. This is big boy basketball. Dawson...my God...how was he even recruited to MU?
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Much of that list....didn’t pan out. This is big boy basketball. Dawson...my God...how was he even recruited to MU?
Definitely agree with that, and like many I didn't lose a wink of sleep for 7/10 on that list.
But my point is more that an upperclass Cheatham or Carter or whomever could have been good for these teams.
Instead there has consistently been zero buy-in from anyone on taking a lesser role but still contributing when called upon. And I feel like at a certain point, you've gotta start getting that instead of continual scorched earth.
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Nonetheless, just another guy to quit mid-season on Wojo: Burton, Dawson, Cohen, Cheatham, Traci, and now Ed. Nothing to see here.
I know that the transfer topic has been discussed here, but guys leaving mid-season should not be a regular thing. All conference guys leaving should not be no big deal. Maybe it's just about playing time or usage rates. Maybe it's just clashing personalities. But maybe, in this growing list of players exiting the program, there's a consistent and valid frustration with the way the program and its players are being managed.
Admittedly, this line of thinking fits nicely into my own less than positive views of Wojo. But at the same time, a big point of reservation I've had with him was the way guys were leaving the team. Losing Cheatham was a big deal to me. The Hausergate scenario was awful. And now losing Ed right at the start of conference play? To me, it sure seems like something's rotten in Denmark.
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Wojo is a horrible coach whom every player hates ... and yet somehow he has landed a top-10 recruiting class. These young men said they chose Marquette in great part because of the camaraderie they felt while getting to know the players and coaches during their campus visits. I guess Wojo must be quite a hypnotist!
It is very possible that Wojo's sales pitch doesn't live up to the experience for everyone once they get to Milwaukee. Is the difference in 5-8 minutes per game big enough for a guy to walk away from his college basketball career? Or could something else be going on in the relationship between player and coach? Is it possible that the Wojo the players get behind closed doors is different than the guy who sat on their living room couch and promised mom he'd take good care of the player? Maybe he's not the smiling Duke-molded Stepford coach we get at alumni events and in interviews.
It's also highly likely that 20-ish year olds that have always been at the top of the totem pole struggle dealing with the adversity that comes at this level of basketball. I absolutely get that. There's just been a lot of smoke with this fire during his tenure, and it has now been a significant storyline for the last 9 months.
The whole "it's fine to lose talented players because if they don't want to be here, we don't want them here" thought process seems naive to me. It's certainly one way to cope with a break up, but it's not completely honest.
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It is very possible that Wojo's sales pitch doesn't live up to the experience for everyone once they get to Milwaukee. Is the difference in 5-8 minutes per game big enough for a guy to walk away from his college basketball career? Or could something else be going on in the relationship between player and coach? Is it possible that the Wojo the players get behind closed doors is different than the guy who sat on their living room couch and promised mom he'd take good care of the player? Maybe he's not the smiling Duke-molded Stepford coach we get at alumni events and in interviews.
It's also highly likely that 20-ish year olds that have always been at the top of the totem pole struggle dealing with the adversity that comes at this level of basketball. I absolutely get that. There's just been a lot of smoke with this fire during his tenure, and it has now been a significant storyline for the last 9 months.
The whole "it's fine to lose talented players because if they don't want to be here, we don't want them here" thought process seems naive to me. It's certainly one way to cope with a break up, but it's not completely honest.
Serious hypothetical question:
If Sam and Joey come back this year and Wojo still wanted to have two guards on the floor at all times, who would be the starting five right now??
My take:
Guards: Markus and Koby.
Center: Theo
Forwards: Now here's where it gets fun and may answer part of the transfer question.: Sam and ?
Sam and Joey??
Sam and Sacar??
Sam and Brendan??
Starting to see the problem??
Theres minutes available but who would Wojo give the starting nod to??
Whoever he gives the starting job to, two other guys are going to be pissed.
If Wojo started Sacar(likely) Joey would have lost his____
If Wojo gave the starting job to Joey, Sacar would have had every right to walk.
Wojo wouldn't have given the starting job to Brendan over Sacar or Joey, so he very well may have transferred.
The addition of a second guard in the starting lineup with a roster that included the Hausers was literally unworkable.
At the end of last season it was already accepted that Koby would be the second guard. The Hausers knew it, and they also saw Brendan ascending.
With willing suitors in UVA and MSU plus the year off for Sams hip to heal and Joey to mature, it was a no brainier for the Hausers to leave. Just like its a no brainier for Ed to leave with Jayce returning to his pre-injury form.
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Instead there has consistently been zero buy-in from anyone on taking a lesser role but still contributing when called upon. And I feel like at a certain point, you've gotta start getting that instead of continual scorched earth.
Does Matt Heldt count? he took a lesser role... went from start junior year to off the bench senior year. I don't think he compares to Ed's skill level, but he bought in to team first.
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Does Matt Heldt count? he took a lesser role... went from start junior year to off the bench senior year. I don't think he compares to Ed's skill level, but he bought in to team first.
I think if MU started targeting more (preferably local) "program guys" for their 11th, 12th and 13th scholarships like Matt Heldt and Jake Thomas, we'd see much less chemistry issues and bizarre departures. Instead, it seems they always sign similarly talented players with similar skill sets and just let armageddon ensue where the defeated warriors end up being forced to pack their bags or become a "program guy" themselves which not many have interest in doing.
Guys like Thomas and Heldt are more than serviceable to come into the game for "depth" in the event the first and second string guys get into foul trouble or get injured. Although, for a program like Marquette, roster management is more difficult than at a blue blood and it's more of a "take what you can get" so I understand why they try and get the most high major players they can. That strategy will always lead to transfers and unhappiness from certain players though. It always has.
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Serious hypothetical question:
If Sam and Joey come back this year and Wojo still wanted to have two guards on the floor at all times, who would be the starting five right now??
My take:
Guards: Markus and Koby.
Center: Theo
Forwards: Now here's where it gets fun and may answer part of the transfer question.: Sam and ?
Sam and Joey??
Sam and Sacar??
Sam and Brendan??
Starting to see the problem??
Theres minutes available but who would Wojo give the starting nod to??
Whoever he gives the starting job to, two other guys are going to be pissed.
If Wojo started Sacar(likely) Joey would have lost his____
If Wojo gave the starting job to Joey, Sacar would have had every right to walk.
Wojo wouldn't have given the starting job to Brendan over Sacar or Joey, so he very well may have transferred.
The addition of a second guard in the starting lineup with a roster that included the Hausers was literally unworkable.
At the end of last season it was already accepted that Koby would be the second guard. The Hausers knew it, and they also saw Brendan ascending.
With willing suitors in UVA and MSU plus the year off for Sams hip to heal and Joey to mature, it was a no brainier for the Hausers to leave. Just like its a no brainier for Ed to leave with Jayce returning to his pre-injury form.
It's a "no-brainer" for Ed to leave with 13-17 games left in his college career? What? Literally never seen it.
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All my opinion ...
It is fair to wonder how good Wojo is at managing egos, which is a major part of any coach's job. If he was great at it, one of the best, could Hausershima have been avoided, a couple of other transfers not happened, etc? We'll never know, but I'll say it's at least a maybe. He's a P6 head coach, he makes big bucks, and he has experience at a program where talented players were recruited over all the time and where egos were very large. So while I don't think it's fair to place all the blame on him -- especially when we don't know all the circumstances -- I do think it's fair to say it's not been one of his strengths, and because of that we might have lost some players we shouldn't have.
As for the Morrow situation itself ...
This never would have happened had Wojo simply not signed Jayce. Maybe there are a few Scoopers who think that's the way things should have gone. The Theo/Ed combo was good enough for us to have a 23-4 start to last season, and they certainly weren't primarily to blame for the collapse down the stretch. Maybe Wojo should have left well enough alone. That's reasonable.
I, for one, was glad he signed Jayce. I thought it was important to improve our depth at the 5 if he had the chance to do so. And as it turns out, Jayce has been a better player than Morrow for this team.
Now, did Wojo promise Morrow something when he signed Jayce? To keep Morrow from transferring before the season, when Morrow actually could have latched on elsewhere, did Wojo promise him 10 mpg at the 4, as well as time at the 5? If so, that would have been bad form. However, absent any evidence of that, I don't think it's fair to Wojo to imply that was the case. If Morrow had come to me after I signed Jayce and asked me what it meant for him, I'd have said, "We wanted to improve our depth, and we're never going to pass on a good player who wants to come to Marquette. We still value you and consider you a fine college player. But as always, playing time will depend on matchups, on who is playing best in a given game, foul trouble, etc." I like to think that's the kind of answer Wojo gave if Ed inquired.
So for me, the bottom line is that Wojo either should have or shouldn't have brought on Jayce. I'm glad he did.
I know there is at least one Scooper who thinks Ed was the best of them all, that he should have been starting over Theo all along and getting the majority of minutes at the 5. Given what we have seen from both players -- at their best and at their worst -- I respectfully but strongly disagree with that assessment.
I also disagree with those who contend that Ed rarely was given enough playing time to get in rhythm. There are plenty of reasons to criticize Wojo, but I don't believe the way he has allocated minutes to the 5 position is one of them.
I actually respect Ed walking away, assuming that's what he has done. Much better to do that than stick around and let team chemistry blow up. We saw how that played last season.
Finally, I was a bit snarky about it earlier, so I'll rephrase it: Wojo has landed a decent number of good to very good recruits, including a top-10 class just this year. Each of those recruits has cited the camaraderie, the cohesion, the "family atmosphere" (whatever terms one uses) of Wojo's program as a main reason he chose Marquette.
If the atmosphere were toxic, wouldn't a recruit sense that? If you were a current unhappy Warrior -- especially a senior, who would have no reason to hold back the truth -- wouldn't you pull aside a recruit and say, "Maybe you should think about going somewhere else, kid"? If Wojo and his assistants truly were horrible ego managers, wouldn't they have difficulty convincing big-ego high school prospects and transfers to attend MU in the first place?
By most accounts, several MU players were thinking about transferring after last season. Aside from the Hausers, none did. If they truly hated Wojo, why would they have stayed?
Every year, the NCAA sets a new record for college basketball transfers. IIRC, TAMU has cited reports showing that most of them are kids who get recruited over and decide to move down a level. That's been the case with the vast majority of Wojo's transfers.
I wish we would never lose a really talented player. I wish we didn't lose Blankson and Mason and Newbill and Mbakwe and Maymon and McKay and the Hausers and Burton. For that matter, I wish we didn't lose Christopherson and Cheatham and Carter. But that's life in 21st century college sports, my friends.
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Was also told he quit: and it was obviously less "getting pulled because of one long 2 against Providence" and more "a 5th year senior is frustrated he's fallen down the depth chart and he/the staff didn't see eye to eye on his minutes moving forward".
I'm certain it's been mentioned already but it really is a Catch 22. I'm sure Ed feels he hasn't been able to establish a good rhythm on the court due to a lack of minutes, but it's hard to justify giving him minutes when he's been straight up lousy all season. I feel for Ed because he seems like a genuinely good dude off the court, and his toughness and energy are traits any contending team can use.
While I find it hard to criticize Wojo for not playing a guy who's been a literal anchor for this team (his in-conference +/- of -27 speaks for itself), what's troubling is the track record of guys straight up leaving the program when they've seemingly lost favor with Wojo relative to other players:
- Deonte
- Traci
- Sandy
- Dawson
- (Wally?)
- Haanif
- Harry
- Sam and Joey
- Ed
Outside of the guys who opted to redshirt (Sacar, Greg, Dexter), I can only think of Jamal as a guy who has embraced his role coming off the bench and publicly remained positive while being leapfrogged on the depth chart - Ben Steele story late last season. Despite my vocal concerns with Wojo after Sam and Joey left, I still think he can get it done here. But trends like this are hard to ignore, and if you're not one of his "guys" it seems like a revolving door.
Could add Matt Heldt
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I think part of Ed staying was the idea of the two big lineup that never really came to fruition, partially due to Jayce's injury, but moreso due to the changing aspect of the game simply making it a non-reality in the Big East.
Not everyone has the wherewithal to fill the Matt Heldt role, and it seems Ed is in that boat.
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I think part of Ed staying was the idea of the two big lineup that never really came to fruition, partially due to Jayce's injury, but moreso due to the changing aspect of the game simply making it a non-reality in the Big East.
Not everyone has the wherewithal to fill the Matt Heldt role, and it seems Ed is in that boat.
Disappointments happen all the time. However, this coming to a head in mid-jan during conference play, with a senior on a team that should still make the NCAA tourney.
It just points to a complete misalignment of expectations and an unhappiness that is disappointing.
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Much of that list....didn’t pan out. This is big boy basketball. Dawson...my God...how was he even recruited to MU?
Agree it’s big boy basketball. However, that is a lot of wasted scholarships that have left MU teams short handed (sometime mid season). It also creates imbalance within in each recruiting class, thus needed transfers to patch work the remaining recruiting class together.
I get that kids transfer, but when wojo doesn’t get guys to buy in he and his coaching staff have to take time away from strategy and game planning (which they’re not great at) to go try and land additional recruits.
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Definitely agree with that, and like many I didn't lose a wink of sleep for 7/10 on that list.
But my point is more that an upperclass Cheatham or Carter or whomever could have been good for these teams.
Instead there has consistently been zero buy-in from anyone on taking a lesser role but still contributing when called upon. And I feel like at a certain point, you've gotta start getting that instead of continual scorched earth.
Cheatham had a child I thought....wasn’t that part of the decision? Carter simply wasn’t going to play as better players came in...he would have been helpful but guys don’t want to sit on the bench. Carter was at two schools after MU...some people are nomads.
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Cheatham had a child I thought....wasn’t that part of the decision? Carter simply wasn’t going to play as better players came in...he would have been helpful but guys don’t want to sit on the bench. Carter was at two schools after MU...some people are nomads.
Don't think cheatham had a kid. Also doesn't add up with him being at Nebraska now.
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Was also told he quit: and it was obviously less "getting pulled because of one long 2 against Providence" and more "a 5th year senior is frustrated he's fallen down the depth chart and he/the staff didn't see eye to eye on his minutes moving forward".
I'm certain it's been mentioned already but it really is a Catch 22. I'm sure Ed feels he hasn't been able to establish a good rhythm on the court due to a lack of minutes, but it's hard to justify giving him minutes when he's been straight up lousy all season. I feel for Ed because he seems like a genuinely good dude off the court, and his toughness and energy are traits any contending team can use.
While I find it hard to criticize Wojo for not playing a guy who's been a literal anchor for this team (his in-conference +/- of -27 speaks for itself), what's troubling is the track record of guys straight up leaving the program when they've seemingly lost favor with Wojo relative to other players:
- Deonte
- Traci
- Sandy
- Dawson
- (Wally?)
- Haanif
- Harry
- Sam and Joey
- Ed
Outside of the guys who opted to redshirt (Sacar, Greg, Dexter), I can only think of Jamal as a guy who has embraced his role coming off the bench and publicly remained positive while being leapfrogged on the depth chart - Ben Steele story late last season. Despite my vocal concerns with Wojo after Sam and Joey left, I still think he can get it done here. But trends like this are hard to ignore, and if you're not one of his "guys" it seems like a revolving door.
Roster churn is part of college basketball for better or worse.
I suspect it’s worse early in a new (especially first time) head coach’s tenure and gradually improves over time. Partly due to the need for a new coach to fill the roster and maybe signing guys that are a reach or maybe not a perfect fit for how that coach wants to play. Over time, as the coach gets more established and has some success, it becomes easier to recruit players that are a better “fit” as well as more talented. Those early recruits see the writing on the wall and leave. Hard to blame them. This is just a natural part of taking over a team and doing your job to make that team better and nobody should blame a coach for this.
Where Wojo deserves blame (how much is hard to say) is with managing situations like the Hausers where talented kids that are part of the foundation of the team up and leave. That shouldn’t happen and hopefully Wojo has learned from it and it won’t happen again. Wojo was only one side of that equation and, contrary to popular opinion, all the blame does not fall to him.
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Was also told he quit: and it was obviously less "getting pulled because of one long 2 against Providence" and more "a 5th year senior is frustrated he's fallen down the depth chart and he/the staff didn't see eye to eye on his minutes moving forward".
He played after the long 2 attempt. Knowing Wojo's rotations, I doubt it was even a factor.
And he generally played from one TV timeout to the next. That is plenty of time. Ners has been claiming this for years about players he likes that dont pan out. Its just not accurate.
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Don't think cheatham had a kid. Also doesn't add up with him being at Nebraska now.
From what I recall it was a family or personal situation and he did transfer close to home. If that situation no longer exists him ending up at Nebraska doesn't seem odd to me at all.
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From what I recall it was a family or personal situation and he did transfer close to home. If that situation no longer exists him ending up at Nebraska doesn't seem odd to me at all.
family illness
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Woj has to get better evaluating talent and be discriminating (can you say this word here?) with his scholarships. It does him no good to build internal team friction and animosity, particularly since it is obvious Woj is either incapable or unwilling to handle team disharmony. Poor strategy to get in bed with your superstar at the expense of other team members, hey?
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Don't think cheatham had a kid. Also doesn't add up with him being at Nebraska now.
I was wrong, it was illness in the family....I’m sure among other things.
https://eaglenews.org/sports/cheatham-immediately-eligible-for-upcoming-basketball-season/
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Woj has to get better evaluating talent and be discriminating (can you say this word here?) with his scholarships. It does him no good to build internal team friction and animosity, particularly since it is obvious Woj is either incapable or unwilling to handle team disharmony. Poor strategy to get in bed with your superstar at the expense of other team members, hey?
I'm still not sure that's exactly what happened. But I do think that under Wojo, MU has players who are unsatisfied with their roles. I have no idea if this is what it's like at other schools, but it is disconcerting.
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I'm still not sure that's exactly what happened. But I do think that under Wojo, MU has players who are unsatisfied with their roles. I have no idea if this is what it's like at other schools, but it is disconcerting.
Simply have to look at Gtown this year. It happens everywhere. Iowa state had 2 kids midseason already.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/watchstadium.com/college-basketballs-2019-20-midseason-transfer-list-10-31-2019/amp/
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40% of D1 players transfer.
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Woj has to get better evaluating talent and be discriminating (can you say this word here?) with his scholarships. It does him no good to build internal team friction and animosity, particularly since it is obvious Woj is either incapable or unwilling to handle team disharmony. Poor strategy to get in bed with your superstar at the expense of other team members, hey?
You are pointing out what is essentially my primary grievance with respect to Wojo, poor roster management. Basketball is a team sport and if you build a bad foundation it is very hard to get a collaborative team success.
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I’m sure most coaches make promises to incoming recruits, and Wojo is no different. But to me, it’s always been obvious what promises Wojo made to certain players, in a way that I didn’t notice under Crean and Buzz. Examples:
Henry: You’ll get to showcase your 3-point shot.
Markus: Ultimate green light immediately as a freshman.
Rowsey: Ultimate green light.
Carlino: Look at our roster right now. Come here and you can be the chuckiest chucker this side of Chucksville.
Joey: Starter and big minutes from day one.
What promises, if any, were made to Morrow to keep him on the roster? It seems like Wojo wrote a check he couldn’t or didn’t want to cash.
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40% of D1 players transfer.
What percentage of seniors quit two months before their college playing careers come to an end?
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I'm still not sure that's exactly what happened. But I do think that under Wojo, MU has players who are unsatisfied with their roles. I have no idea if this is what it's like at other schools, but it is disconcerting.
if you have been watching, there have been multiple situations at other schools, player discipline, dismissals etc. because it's hitting closer to home, people want to immediately blame wojo...see, it's happening again sort of thing...wojo is losing control, etc etc. georgetown(2 dismissals and a transfer), arkansas(player dismissal), UAB(dismissal), oklahoma st.(3 dismissals) if this were happening here, we would probably see torches and pitch forks.
as one person pointed out, ed may have some legit personal reasons for taking a "break" maybe it's been verified somewhere that he has quit the team. regardless, this schmit happens everywhere and is going to continue to happen.
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Woj has to get better evaluating talent and be discriminating (can you say this word here?) with his scholarships. It does him no good to build internal team friction and animosity, particularly since it is obvious Woj is either incapable or unwilling to handle team disharmony. Poor strategy to get in bed with your superstar at the expense of other team members, hey?
Once he got established, say 3 full years in, how many of his recruits can you say this about, Doc?
Right now, it looks like Froling is the only one for sure. Maybe Cain, Elliott, Morrow/Johnson? (Or maybe not?)
A coach needs to recruit depth, too. You recruit a guy like Carter or Froling or Anim or John and hope it pans out. In the first two cases, it didn't; in the third and fourth cases, the 3-stars became solid (IMHO) contributors on a 24-win, NCAA tourney team.
You have to keep recruiting stars. That's how you win. And stars almost always will be treated a little differently from others. If you don't think Laettner, Rose, Carmelo, AD, etc, etc, etc got preferential treatment, I have swampland you might be interested in. I'm quite certain that if he were still alive, Al would say he treated all his players "fairly but not equally."
I will agree that managing egos does not appear to be one of Wojo's strengths, and I will agree that matters. He needs to get better at it or find new work.
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What percentage of seniors quit two months before their college playing careers come to an end?
it's probably pretty low, but it doesn't matter. unfortunate we are losing a player, some playing time to give jj and theo a blow, fouls to give, etc, but life goes on
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Woj has to get better evaluating talent and be discriminating (can you say this word here?) with his scholarships. It does him no good to build internal team friction and animosity, particularly since it is obvious Woj is either incapable or unwilling to handle team disharmony. Poor strategy to get in bed with your superstar at the expense of other team members, hey?
We all know you have a vendetta against Markus, but if you think Ed taking a "leave of absence" has anything to do with Markus , I don't know what to tell you.
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Woj has to get better evaluating talent and be discriminating (can you say this word here?) with his scholarships. It does him no good to build internal team friction and animosity, particularly since it is obvious Woj is either incapable or unwilling to handle team disharmony. Poor strategy to get in bed with your superstar at the expense of other team members, hey?
one of the things i think wojo must improve upon is his communication-he needs to set some ground rules
#1) parents are to stfu and enjoy their nice free seats
#2) be consistent and firm
#3) grow a pair or 2
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The only concerning transfers in Wojo's time at Marquette to me are the Hausers. If a guy who isn't contributing wants to quit mid-season, oh well. Not super concerning or telling about the state of the program, in my opinion.
Doesn't seem to be overly concerning to recruits, either.
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if you have been watching, there have been multiple situations at other schools, player discipline, dismissals etc. because it's hitting closer to home, people want to immediately blame wojo...see, it's happening again sort of thing...wojo is losing control, etc etc. georgetown(2 dismissals and a transfer), arkansas(player dismissal), UAB(dismissal), oklahoma st.(3 dismissals) if this were happening here, we would probably see torches and pitch forks.
as one person pointed out, ed may have some legit personal reasons for taking a "break" maybe it's been verified somewhere that he has quit the team. regardless, this schmit happens everywhere and is going to continue to happen.
I understand that players transfer. And most of the time it makes perfect sense. They are either going to move down a level, or move up a level, to a place that fits their talents.
Or maybe they would like to be closer to home, dealing with a coaching change, etc. What I am concerned about is last year we had two starters transfer because of their role. Now we have a fifth year senior quit mid season because of his role.
These are not common type of occurances.
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I understand that players transfer. And most of the time it makes perfect sense. They are either going to move down a level, or move up a level, to a place that fits their talents.
Or maybe they would like to be closer to home, dealing with a coaching change, etc. What I am concerned about is last year we had two starters transfer because of their role. Now we have a fifth year senior quit mid season because of his role.
These are not common type of occurances.
5th year seniors also need to buy in to their situation as part of a team and not quit because their minutes are shrinking towards 0.
If they quit because of that, then good luck to you.
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The only concerning transfers in Wojo's time at Marquette to me are the Hausers. If a guy who isn't contributing wants to quit mid-season, oh well. Not super concerning or telling about the state of the program, in my opinion.
This is where I'm at, too. Outside of those two (and Burton, but there were other factors) none of those guys stuck at a high-major level.
It's who they've taken in that has been more of an issue. Not that they're bad kids, but outside of Rowsey there has been little contribution. Hopefully Koby picks it up more consistently in the second half of the year.
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I understand that players transfer. And most of the time it makes perfect sense. They are either going to move down a level, or move up a level, to a place that fits their talents.
Or maybe they would like to be closer to home, dealing with a coaching change, etc. What I am concerned about is last year we had two starters transfer because of their role. Now we have a fifth year senior quit mid season because of his role.
These are not common type of occurances.
The Hausers role was fine, they wanted to be featured more apparently but they got minutes, featured, etc. That’s a choice they made.
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Serious hypothetical question:
If Sam and Joey come back this year and Wojo still wanted to have two guards on the floor at all times, who would be the starting five right now??
The addition of a second guard in the starting lineup with a roster that included the Hausers was literally unworkable.
At the end of last season it was already accepted that Koby would be the second guard. The Hausers knew it, and they also saw Brendan ascending.
With willing suitors in UVA and MSU plus the year off for Sams hip to heal and Joey to mature, it was a no brainier for the Hausers to leave. Just like its a no brainier for Ed to leave with Jayce returning to his pre-injury form.
Apologies for the long post. There was a lot to address in that post. I'll try to respond in order here.
If Sam and Joey were still here, I see fewer minutes available for Koby. Sam and Joey would both be getting minutes over him, which means we'd probably have Markus running the point pretty often. Sacar would still be getting big minutes. He might rotate in and out of the starting lineup depending on defensive matchups, though. So your starters would be Markus, Sam, Theo, on a regular basis and then two of Joey, Sacar, and Brendan depending on the opponent. We wouldn't have Jayce or Symir, so next off the bench would probably be Koby. Jamal would be a good redshirt candidate.
And here's an important thing in all of this - winning fixes everything. The roster would be stacked if we still had the Hausers, and there's a real chance we'd be a top 10 or better team. That kind of season tends to result in far fewer issues over playing time. I think you're also giving way too much weight to the starting spot vs. getting meaningful minutes.
The idea that it's not possible to have a second guard in a lineup with the Hausers is ridiculous. Remember when we cracked the top 10 last year with Sacar in the starting lineup alongside both Hausers? That seemed to work out pretty well for a while. Coaches at this level can always find an optimal lineup, no matter what their roster looks like. I have no doubt that Wojo would have been able to find a few different looks here that worked well. Again, with that much talent on the roster, optimizing lineups is a good problem to have.
I doubt Brendan's improvement was viewed as a threat to either Hauser. Sam, certainly not. Maybe Joey, but Joey's role was pretty well set last year. If anything, Brendan's development could have helped limit all the minutes Sam had to play, which would be a good thing. Even now with all the playing time he's getting, Brendan isn't consistent enough. He can disappear in games. Look at the Xaiver game - we were dominating that game, and Brendan only had 2 points and a few boards with about 4 minutes to go. That kind of play wouldn't be enough to eat into the Hausers' playing time too much. He would probably have some games where he gets hot and earns 20+ minutes, but it would be sporadic, just like this year.
To say it makes sense for them to leave just because some other good schools wanted them doesn't make sense to me. MSU and UVa weren't willing suitors until the Hausers made their announcement. There wouldn't have been any suitors at all if the Hausers were happy here. The fact that they landed at top tier schools only shows what kind of talent we lost. Interest from other schools was not why they left.
And now we get to the worst take in the post. Read the next sentence very slowly, as if you're talking to a three year old, because that's how this needs to be said. It is never a no brainer to walk away from your collegiate career in the middle of your fifth season. That is a huge decision to make and may have some very large consequences. It's one thing to say you can understand the frustration he must be feeling, but to say that it's a no brainer, an easy decision, is crazy.
This will be the biggest decision Ed has ever made in his life. If he's truly walking away from basketball right now, you've got to think he's discussed this with family, with friends, maybe even with the coaches. And even if he pulled the trigger on this in the heat of the moment, it's probably something that's been weighing on his mind for a long time.
Minimizing the importance of this decision feels a lot like an attempt to try to take away potential blame from Wojo. Saying it's "literally" impossible to construct a roster containing two guys that have drawn interest from NBA scouts also feels a lot like you're trying to downplay how big of a loss the Hausers were in order to take blame away from Wojo. Acting like there are only 5 meaningful spots in the lineup also seems like you're trying to make the minute allocation and lineup decisions harder than they really are to take blame away from Wojo. Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but all in all, this feels like a poor defense of Wojo based on some pretty obtuse reasoning.
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40% of D1 players transfer.
It's not concerning to you to lose the Hausers last year and then have Ed leave in the middle of the season this year? Just par for the course D1 basketball stuff here?
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With all due respect, winning doesn’t fix everything...MU was winning a ton last year when Joey was having his pouting sessions.
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This is where I'm at, too. Outside of those two (and Burton, but there were other factors) none of those guys stuck at a high-major level.
It's who they've taken in that has been more of an issue. Not that they're bad kids, but outside of Rowsey there has been little contribution. Hopefully Koby picks it up more consistently in the second half of the year.
Carlino and Reinhardt contributed quite a bit.
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And here's an important thing in all of this - winning fixes everything.
We were one of the hottest teams in the nation last season, in the middle of a 20-2 run and ranked in the top 10, when Hausershima began to rear its ugly head.
Otherwise, I agree with most of your thorough post.
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And now we get to the worst take in the post. Read the next sentence very slowly, as if you're talking to a three year old, because that's how this needs to be said. It is never a no brainer to walk away from your collegiate career in the middle of your fifth season. That is a huge decision to make and may have some very large consequences. It's one thing to say you can understand the frustration he must be feeling, but to say that it's a no brainer, an easy decision, is crazy.
This will be the biggest decision Ed has ever made in his life. If he's truly walking away from basketball right now, you've got to think he's discussed this with family, with friends, maybe even with the coaches. And even if he pulled the trigger on this in the heat of the moment, it's probably something that's been weighing on his mind for a long time.
Minimizing the importance of this decision feels a lot like an attempt to try to take away potential blame from Wojo. Saying it's "literally" impossible to construct a roster containing two guys that have drawn interest from NBA scouts also feels a lot like you're trying to downplay how big of a loss the Hausers were in order to take blame away from Wojo. Acting like there are only 5 meaningful spots in the lineup also seems like you're trying to make the minute allocation and lineup decisions harder than they really are to take blame away from Wojo. Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but all in all, this feels like a poor defense of Wojo based on some pretty obtuse reasoning.
Nailed it
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We all know you have a vendetta against Markus, but if you think Ed taking a "leave of absence" has anything to do with Markus , I don't know what to tell you.
He's doing it once again with Mane who has been quoted as saying Woj wants him to come in and be the man from day 1. Wonder how Garcia is diggin' dat chit?
As for Howard, I have know "vendeta" against him. Hey, live and let live. He is a very talented shooter. On a better and more complete basketball team (and this is on Woj), Markus would not, nor would he have to, put up the shot volume that we see each and every game.
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We were one of the hottest teams in the nation last season, in the middle of a 20-2 run and ranked in the top 10, when Hausershima began to rear its ugly head.
Otherwise, I agree with most of your thorough post.
Fair point. Winning does fix some things for some people. For example, Ed may have been happier with his role if we were a top 10 team. Joey last year likely had some unreasonable expectations that couldn't be managed no matter what the coaching staff did. I'm sure when teenagers see their names on NBA draft sites that can be quite the ego boost, which may not always end well.
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If Ed quit solely due to playing time, then he quit on himself, and more importantly his team as well. This is not an individual sport. IMO, it's not a good look for him - I see it as character revealed. I would certainly never advise my kids to take this route in the middle of a season in a team sport. Also, I can't comprehend how you walk out on your teammates after all the work you put in for 3 years.
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If Ed quit solely due to playing time, then he quit on himself, and more importantly his team as well. This is not an individual sport. IMO, it's not a good look for him - I see it as character revealed. I would certainly never advise my kids to take this route in the middle of a season in a team sport. Also, I can't comprehend how you walk out on your teammates after all the work you put in for 3 years.
THIS
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Could add Matt Heldt
Yep absolutely. Matt was a quintessential "program guy".
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Carlino and Reinhardt contributed quite a bit.
Carlino, yeah. Katin? We'll always have the Nova game, I guess.
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If Ed quit solely due to playing time, then he quit on himself, and more importantly his team as well. This is not an individual sport. IMO, it's not a good look for him - I see it as character revealed. I would certainly never advise my kids to take this route in the middle of a season in a team sport. Also, I can't comprehend how you walk out on your teammates after all the work you put in for 3 years.
I agree with this mindset. Which is why I wonder what else might be contributing to the decision. It seems like there could be something more going on than just Ed wanting more minutes. I doubt that we'll ever know the real story, but I'd be surprised if this was just about playing time.
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He's doing it once again with Mane who has been quoted as saying Woj wants him to come in and be the man from day 1. Wonder how Garcia is diggin' dat chit?
As for Howard, I have know "vendeta" against him. Hey, live and let live. He is a very talented shooter. On a better and more complete basketball team (and this is on Woj), Markus would not, nor would he have to, put up the shot volume that we see each and every game.
Neither you nor I nor anyone else here was there to hear what Wojo told Mane or Garcia or anybody else.
Wojo (or Stan or Killings or whoever) might have said, "Markus is graduating and I definitely can see you doing some of the great things for us that he has done." I would not have blamed him if that's what he said. It's the kind of thing that most coaches say to land a 5-star recruit who has lots of options.
Mane could have translated that as, "You're the next Markus, and you can shoot whenever you want." That doesn't mean it's what Wojo said.
Wojo might have told Garcia, "Look at what Henry Ellenson did during his year at Marquette. We know how to use a multi-talented big man" ... and to Garcia's ears that might have meant: "You will be the next Henry and everything on offense will go through you."
HS basketball players are like most humans -- they hear what they want to hear.
KO is revered by Scoopers. Remember all the stuff he said to Gates to get him to sign on the dotted line? It's what coaches do. Hopefully they don't flat-out lie; but yes, they tell the kid that he can be a major, major player.
Now, the best coaches can deal with the egos once they get the kids to campus. As I've said multiple times, Wojo needs to get better at it or get out.
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I’m sure most coaches make promises to incoming recruits, and Wojo is no different. But to me, it’s always been obvious what promises Wojo made to certain players, in a way that I didn’t notice under Crean and Buzz. Examples:
Henry: You’ll get to showcase your 3-point shot.
Markus: Ultimate green light immediately as a freshman.
Rowsey: Ultimate green light.
Carlino: Look at our roster right now. Come here and you can be the chuckiest chucker this side of Chucksville.
Joey: Starter and big minutes from day one.
What promises, if any, were made to Morrow to keep him on the roster? It seems like Wojo wrote a check he couldn’t or didn’t want to cash.
Rowsey most definitely did not get a green light from the start. He barely played at the start until he forced Wojo's hand.
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The only concerning transfers in Wojo's time at Marquette to me are the Hausers. If a guy who isn't contributing wants to quit mid-season, oh well. Not super concerning or telling about the state of the program, in my opinion.
Doesn't seem to be overly concerning to recruits, either.
Hausers, Cheatham, and Burton for me. Regardless of circumstances.
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Carlino, yeah. Katin? We'll always have the Nova game, I guess.
Reinhardt was a pretty indisposable player....
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Reinhardt was a pretty indisposable player....
He was very good for MU.
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I am, slowly, coming to grips with the "transfer" era of college ball. My issue is with the circumstances. As hard as I try to understand I still can't get over the idea of a senior leaving a team, either at the end of junior year or here, mid-season. All I can think of is that after the amount of time committed, how bad would things have to be to just walk away from something you have spent your whole life on, in the middle of a season. Tells me that the "personal reasons" may well be true, but, then, history makes me question that. Anyway, good luck Ed. Hope whatever it is works out for you.
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So, does anyone here believe Ed earned more minutes than he was getting this year?
If so, why?
If not, then what's all the arguing about? You want Wojo to give a kid more minutes than he's earned - to the detriment of the team - to keep him happy?
I 100% get Ed's frustration here, but at the end of the day, his performance is what's determining his minutes.
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It's not concerning to you to lose the Hausers last year and then have Ed leave in the middle of the season this year? Just par for the course D1 basketball stuff here?
The Hausers played the same position. They were also brothers. Those are some odd circumstances to start. Joey wanted to be "the man" and sam showed solidarity. We may never get the whole story, but that was just a weird situation overall. Ed...thats a role player mad with his role and par for the course. Wojos job isnt to keep everyone happy, it's to put the best team on the court.
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So, does anyone here believe Ed earned more minutes than he was getting this year?
If so, why?
If not, then what's all the arguing about? You want Wojo to give a kid more minutes than he's earned - to the detriment of the team - to keep him happy?
I 100% get Ed's frustration here, but at the end of the day, his performance is what's determining his minutes.
This is totally where I'm at. I wish Ed were staying because it would be great to have the depth, and he is capable of having an impact. The couple times we needed Heldt last season, it sure was good he was there.
But to my eyes, he was the third-best option at the position. No coach gives extra minutes to a fringe rotation player "just because."
As hard as I try to understand I still can't get over the idea of a senior leaving a team, either at the end of junior year or here, mid-season.
All I can say is that I sure am glad that Robert Jackson felt his best option was to leave Mississippi State at the end of his junior season!
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Im sorry, but I guess Im too old for these guys..... I was taught to Never quit....There is ALWAYS someone who plays better and more talented than you!!! You have to Work more and harder at it to get and be better... I guess i can see what Wojo mindset might be.... As the story goes, Wojo was told by Coach K, ( i think it was after Soph year) that he wasn't good enuf, and he would not be starting the following season... He didn't get pissed off and quit......Wojo went and dedicated himself and worked hard and got better.... He started the next season and became AA and Def player of the year.. SO, I think Wojo is blunt and tells the players where they stand... Some couldn't take the message and leave.. Too bad for them. I want players here who want to play for MU... Real Warriors ! ! ! Matt Heldt is the perfect example.. Sorry for the long diatribe... I know I will get roasted by some, but this is Just an Old Fan's opinion... 8-)
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I'm still not sure that's exactly what happened. But I do think that under Wojo, MU has players who are unsatisfied with their roles. I have no idea if this is what it's like at other schools, but it is disconcerting.
25% of college basketball players transferred last season. Over 40% of cbb players transfer during their college career.
This is not unique to Marquette, despite many here that want it to be.
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I know I will get roasted by some, but this is Just an Old Fan's opinion... 8-)
Nope, seems like a reasonable take, and a plausible explanation for wojos approach
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So, does anyone here believe Ed earned more minutes than he was getting this year?
If so, why?
If not, then what's all the arguing about? You want Wojo to give a kid more minutes than he's earned - to the detriment of the team - to keep him happy?
I 100% get Ed's frustration here, but at the end of the day, his performance is what's determining his minutes.
Bingo. I want Ed here. And to stay.
But these people putting blame on Wojo. Or any coach...
If you’re in the coaches sneakers, are you sitting jayce and Theo to give more play time to Ed for the extra 8-10 min he feels he deserves?
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Im sorry, but I guess Im too old for these guys..... I was taught to Never quit....There is ALWAYS someone who plays better and more talented than you!!! You have to Work more and harder at it to get and be better... I guess i can see what Wojo mindset might be.... As the story goes, Wojo was told by Coach K, ( i think it was after Soph year) that he wasn't good enuf, and he would not be starting the following season... He didn't get pissed off and quit......Wojo went and dedicated himself and worked hard and got better.... He started the next season and became AA and Def player of the year.. SO, I think Wojo is blunt and tells the players where they stand... Some couldn't take the message and leave.. Too bad for them. I want players here who want to play for MU... Real Warriors ! ! ! Matt Heldt is the perfect example.. Sorry for the long diatribe... I know I will get roasted by some, but this is Just an Old Fan's opinion... 8-)
Right on! Agree 100%.
Does anyone know if Ed has shown up at practice since the game?
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Im sorry, but I guess Im too old for these guys..... I was taught to Never quit....There is ALWAYS someone who plays better and more talented than you!!! You have to Work more and harder at it to get and be better... I guess i can see what Wojo mindset might be.... As the story goes, Wojo was told by Coach K, ( i think it was after Soph year) that he wasn't good enuf, and he would not be starting the following season... He didn't get pissed off and quit......Wojo went and dedicated himself and worked hard and got better.... He started the next season and became AA and Def player of the year.. SO, I think Wojo is blunt and tells the players where they stand... Some couldn't take the message and leave.. Too bad for them. I want players here who want to play for MU... Real Warriors ! ! ! Matt Heldt is the perfect example.. Sorry for the long diatribe... I know I will get roasted by some, but this is Just an Old Fan's opinion... 8-)
I agree, when growing up and they pick/place you for Right field you knew where you stood and what you needed to do.
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I agree, when growing up and they pick/place you for Right field you knew where you stood and what you needed to do.
Steal signs?
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Steal signs?
In those days there was a Commandment about stealing signs.
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. Poor strategy to get in bed with your superstar at the expense of other team members, hey?
Doc thinks the cancer metastasized to Ed.
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Right on! Agree 100%.
Does anyone know if Ed has shown up at practice since the game?
I wouldn't bet on that.
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So, does anyone here believe Ed earned more minutes than he was getting this year?
If so, why?
If not, then what's all the arguing about? You want Wojo to give a kid more minutes than he's earned - to the detriment of the team - to keep him happy?
I 100% get Ed's frustration here, but at the end of the day, his performance is what's determining his minutes.
Ding ding ding.
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So, does anyone here believe Ed earned more minutes than he was getting this year?
If so, why?
If not, then what's all the arguing about? You want Wojo to give a kid more minutes than he's earned - to the detriment of the team - to keep him happy?
I 100% get Ed's frustration here, but at the end of the day, his performance is what's determining his minutes.
+1, it’s a shame but it is what it is.
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On strictly pragmatic terms Morrow would be well served to tough it out. It's not all about playing time. Long after his time on the court, it would be helpful to have that strong connection to the Marquette community. The world is about networking and burning bridges may feel good for the moment but in the long run it's self-destructive. My advice to any athlete in a comparable situation -- put on you big boy pants -- go to class, practice and keep developing your game. Take full advantage of the academic support team, eat those free meals and snacks and figure out life when your eligibility is over.
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On strictly pragmatic terms Morrow would be well served to tough it out. It's not all about playing time. Long after his time on the court, it would be helpful to have that strong connection to the Marquette community. The world is about networking and burning bridges may feel good for the moment but in the long run it's self-destructive. My advice to any athlete in a comparable situation -- put on you big boy pants -- go to class, practice and keep developing your game. Take full advantage of the academic support team, eat those free meals and snacks and figure out life when your eligibility is over.
This is what makes me a bit sad about Ed & Sam for that matter. Their tie to the MU fraternity is forever changed and that just sucks.
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This is what makes me a bit sad about Ed & Sam for that matter. Their tie to the MU fraternity is forever changed and that just sucks.
Especially for Sam. Barring an unforgettable season from him at Virginia he's going to be forgotten from VA and a disappointment to MU.
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The Hausers played the same position. They were also brothers. Those are some odd circumstances to start. Joey wanted to be "the man" and sam showed solidarity. We may never get the whole story, but that was just a weird situation overall. Ed...thats a role player mad with his role and par for the course. Wojos job isnt to keep everyone happy, it's to put the best team on the court.
The situations may be more similar than people think. With Brendan showing signs of his potential on both offense and defense and with Koby slotted in to start at guard, Joey was looking at losing his starting gig and minutes. Kinda like Jayce coming in and reducing Eds role. The difference is the Hausers had a heads up with Koby already at Marquette. Ed may have been a bit blindsided by Jayce transferring in and taking some of Eds minutes. Timing may have been the only difference.
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The situations may be more similar than people think. With Brendan showing signs of his potential on both offense and defense and with Koby slotted in to start at guard, Joey was looking at losing his starting gig and minutes. Kinda like Jayce coming in and reducing Eds role. The difference is the Hausers had a heads up with Koby already at Marquette. Ed may have been a bit blindsided by Jayce transferring in and taking some of Eds minutes. Timing may have been the only difference.
I kind of doubt Joey was concerned about Koby. I think Joey wanted to be the dude, and that is what Joey was concerned about.
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The situations may be more similar than people think. With Brendan showing signs of his potential on both offense and defense and with Koby slotted in to start at guard, Joey was looking at losing his starting gig and minutes. Kinda like Jayce coming in and reducing Eds role. The difference is the Hausers had a heads up with Koby already at Marquette. Ed may have been a bit blindsided by Jayce transferring in and taking some of Eds minutes. Timing may have been the only difference.
Joey was never going to lose his starting gig/minutes.
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I think part of Ed staying was the idea of the two big lineup that never really came to fruition, partially due to Jayce's injury, but moreso due to the changing aspect of the game simply making it a non-reality in the Big East.
Not everyone has the wherewithal to fill the Matt Heldt role, and it seems Ed is in that boat.
IIRC, part of the reason given for Ed leaving Nebraska is that he didn't exclusively want to play the 5. However--and I said this over the summer when the two-big line up with Ed at the 4 was floating around--there didn't seem to be a single piece of evidence that Ed could play the 4 either offensively or defensively. He simply can't shoot outside of 3 feet and he gets lost when asked to guard in space.
Ed brought a great motor, intimidating presence, and fought hard for rebounds, but the idea that he could ever be an adequate 4 in the BE was the pipiest of pipe dreams.
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IIRC, part of the reason given for Ed leaving Nebraska is that he didn't exclusively want to play the 5. However--and I said this over the summer when the two-big line up with Ed at the 4 was floating around--there didn't seem to be a single piece of evidence that Ed could play the 4 either offensively or defensively. He simply can't shoot outside of 3 feet and he gets lost when asked to guard in space.
Ed brought a great motor, intimidating presence, and fought hard for rebounds, but the idea that he could ever be an adequate 4 in the BE was the pipiest of pipe dreams.
Exactly. The people with eyes knew Ed couldn't play the '4' - on either end.
The dreamers thought he could.
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Joey was never going to lose his starting gig/minutes.
If Koby started alongside Markus someone would have had to sit. Who would it have been? Sam? Sacar?
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If Koby started alongside Markus someone would have had to sit. Who would it have been? Sam? Sacar?
Wasn't it said that players were gonna transfer if Sam and Joey stayed? I took that as Sacar and/or Brendan at least since they'd have been most effected by that.
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If Koby started alongside Markus someone would have had to sit. Who would it have been? Sam? Sacar?
What makes you think Koby would have started if Sam and Joey were still here? It doesn't make any sense. The person sitting this year with the Hausers still here would be Koby.
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If Koby started alongside Markus someone would have had to sit. Who would it have been? Sam? Sacar?
Sacar and Bailey
pretty simple really
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What makes you think Koby would have started if Sam and Joey were still here? It doesn't make any sense. The person sitting this year with the Hausers still here would be Koby.
And Sacar would have been gone if the Hausers returned. Maybe Bailey too.
There is no situation where we get to run it back with all our players from last year.
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I think Joey wanted to be the dude, and that is what Joey was concerned about.
And rightfully so, being that he was one of the highest ranked recruits in his class. It was just never going to happen at Marquette while Markus was on the team.
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And rightfully so, being that he was one of the highest ranked recruits in his class. It was just never going to happen at Marquette while Markus was on the team.
He was one of the highest ranked before he broke his foot I believe he fell to the 40s after that. And a recruit ranked in the 40s should probably take a chill pill about wanting to be the man.
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And rightfully so, being that he was one of the highest ranked recruits in his class. It was just never going to happen at Marquette while Markus was on the team.
Joey was ranked around the low 40s. Before his injury he was in the 30s.
The idea that he should be "the dude" when he wasn't even better than his brother is a bit laughable. Don't get me wrong. He's going to be a good player, but he was very properly the third option last year.
EDIT: Joey should have just gone to MSU to begin with. IMO Sam would still be here and all would be well.
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And rightfully so, being that he was one of the highest ranked recruits in his class. It was just never going to happen at Marquette while Markus was on the team.
Joey's day would have come. Likely in his junior season in 20-21, after getting clear start minutes as a sophomore. Instead, he sat for a full year, and he'll be battling for minutes at MSU next season. I love Sam and wish him nothing but the best. I hope Joey gets buried in the depth chart at MSU and gets his waiver denied.
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Sacar and Bailey
pretty simple really
Yeah, that was pretty simple.
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By the end of last year I thought Bailey should have played more than Joey, specifically due to Joey's lack of athleticism and poor defense. This year, it seems pretty clear to me Bailey is better. Joey is a better shooter, and maybe passer. But overall Bailey is better.
Given that, it was never going to be the case that we had both. One was going to emerge and the other transfer. It's the way it is now in college.
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And Sacar would have been gone if the Hausers returned. Maybe Bailey too.
There is no situation where we get to run it back with all our players from last year.
Were Sacar and Brendan the guys that wanted out if the Hausers stayed? I didn't think that ever really came out.
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Were Sacar and Brendan the guys that wanted out if the Hausers stayed? I didn't think that ever really came out.
Sacar seems pretty obvious. He was eligible to grad transfer. Brendan would be the guy that makes the most sense beyond him just simply by process of elimination / common sense.
None of this really matters. We are where we are and we have the guys we have.
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And rightfully so, being that he was one of the highest ranked recruits in his class. It was just never going to happen at Marquette while Markus was on the team.
What? This is wrong on many levels. Joey was ranked in the 40's, hardly a level where he should come in expecting to be the man. He was coming off a significant injury. He was in his first year of college basketball and often badly overmatched athletically. What about all of that makes you think he was rightfully upset about not being the man? I'm very curious.
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Ed still listed on Marquette's roster on gomarquette.com. Based on that, Wojo's comments and the brief tweet before the X game, one would think the door is open for Ed to come back.
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Joey was ranked around the low 40s. Before his injury he was in the 30s.
The idea that he should be "the dude" when he wasn't even better than his brother is a bit laughable. Don't get me wrong. He's going to be a good player, but he was very properly the third option last year.
EDIT: Joey should have just gone to MSU to begin with. IMO Sam would still be here and all would be well.
And not only did he come to MU, he enrolled early, losing out on half of his senior year of HS. It's amazing to me that no one in the camp; Wojo, Stan, Sam or Mom & Dad realized this was a bad idea.
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What makes you think Koby would have started if Sam and Joey were still here? It doesn't make any sense. The person sitting this year with the Hausers still here would be Koby.
I think he would have started because of his defense and to have a second true guard on the floor with Markus. I also think this years Brendan would have given Joey a run for his money. Sacar has more than earned a starting role.
Last years team was one solid guard away from being really good. This years team has some options with Koby and Symir starting to find their groove.
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Sacar seems pretty obvious. He was eligible to grad transfer. Brendan would be the guy that makes the most sense beyond him just simply by process of elimination / common sense.
None of this really matters. We are where we are and we have the guys we have.
Not sure it would make sense for Brendan to transfer. He already sat out two years of college while on his mission. Not sure anyone is dying to be a 23-year-old sophomore.
Jamal on the other hand ...
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And not only did he come to MU, he enrolled early, losing out on half of his senior year of HS. It's amazing to me that no one in the camp; Wojo, Stan, Sam or Mom & Dad realized this was a bad idea.
How’s the ortho surgeons and rehab up in the Point?
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He played after the long 2 attempt. Knowing Wojo's rotations, I doubt it was even a factor.
And he generally played from one TV timeout to the next. That is plenty of time. Ners has been claiming this for years about players he likes that dont pan out. Its just not accurate.
I don't think Ed quit because of the one shot against Providence. That was just a microcosm of how Wojo's coaching is #de-motivating. The fact he returned later in the game didn't mean squat to me. It's how he's been used the entire time at MU. And for the record, Ed wasn't a player I "liked," I've stated I felt Theo was the best big on the team.
There is no "rotation" with Wojo. It is not true that a player like Ed usually played TV timeout to TV timeout. Zero truth in that.
This aside, go look at the 4 minute production of other guys on the team not named Markus. I can assure you that Bailey, Sacar, Theo, and Koby have many thin production 4 minute segments.
Lastly, all the quick hook accomplishes is negative reinforcement and guys playing tight and non-confident AF.
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I don't think Ed quit because of the one shot against Providence. That was just a microcosm of how Wojo's coaching is #de-motivating. The fact he returned later in the game didn't mean squat to me. It's how he's been used the entire time at MU. And for the record, Ed wasn't a player I "liked," I've stated I felt Theo was the best big on the team.
There is no "rotation" with Wojo. It is not true that a player like Ed usually played TV timeout to TV timeout. Zero truth in that.
This aside, go look at the 4 minute production of other guys on the team not named Markus. I can assure you that Bailey, Sacar, Theo, and Koby have many thin production 4 minute segments.
Lastly, all the quick hook accomplishes is negative reinforcement and guys playing tight and non-confident AF.
Your argument essentially comes down to, "Players that are playing badly should get more minutes so they don't play as badly." Pretty much everyone disagrees with you, and that is OK...but we've heard this argument from you before. Maybe you should stop and let it pass?
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I cannot believe Wojo has not figured out that he needs to play every single player for 40 minutes and they will be Michael Jordan on steroids. What an idiot. He needs to use the 520 available minutes per game to get his full roster of 13 scholarship players 40 minutes per game. If he doesn't do that how in the world will we ever know what we have in a guy? Such inconsistent minutes doesn't allow for a player to even have a chance to play well.
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How’s the ortho surgeons and rehab up in the Point?
I believe he went to Bellin in Green Bay for surgery. If I remember Wojo was there with him. Rehab it would seem could be done anywhere. Even still, parents of a super star athlete are used to driving long distances for AAU practices and the like 4-5 times a week. It’s 90 minutes from Point to GB if he wanted to continue to rehab with Bellin (where he’d definitely be under direction of sports medicine team that works with the Packers).
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I believe he went to Bellin in Green Bay for surgery. If I remember Wojo was there with him. Rehab it would seem could be done anywhere. Even still, parents of a super star athlete are used to driving long distances for AAU practices and the like 4-5 times a week. It’s 90 minutes from Point to GB if he wanted to continue to rehab with Bellin (where he’d definitely be under direction of sports medicine team that works with the Packers).
Bob Anderson out of Green Bay did the surgery. Packers team doc and renowned foot surgeon. He was in good hands.
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By the end of last year I thought Bailey should have played more than Joey, specifically due to Joey's lack of athleticism and poor defense. This year, it seems pretty clear to me Bailey is better. Joey is a better shooter, and maybe passer. But overall Bailey is better.
Given that, it was never going to be the case that we had both. One was going to emerge and the other transfer. It's the way it is now in college.
For one thing, you're comparing sophomore year Brendan to freshman year Joey. Most guys progress from year to year, so that's not really apples to apples. Even so, when you look at the stats between current Brendan and last year Joey, they're pretty darn close. Brendan is quicker and more athletic, which makes him a better defender. But I think Joey was a better scorer and was more consistent than Brendan.
And I don't subscribe to the idea that it had to be one or the other. This year would have been a battle for minutes, but next year they could have been a pretty good tandem. Somehow we managed to have 3 extremely talented guards who all played well together from 06-09 without any concern over transfers. Why wouldn't you expect Wojo to find a way to utilize 2 wing players on the floor at the same time?
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Sacar seems pretty obvious. He was eligible to grad transfer. Brendan would be the guy that makes the most sense beyond him just simply by process of elimination / common sense.
None of this really matters. We are where we are and we have the guys we have.
Wait, I thought the whole thing was about bad team chemistry. The assumptions above are just about playing time.
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On strictly pragmatic terms Morrow would be well served to tough it out. It's not all about playing time. Long after his time on the court, it would be helpful to have that strong connection to the Marquette community. The world is about networking and burning bridges may feel good for the moment but in the long run it's self-destructive. My advice to any athlete in a comparable situation -- put on you big boy pants -- go to class, practice and keep developing your game. Take full advantage of the academic support team, eat those free meals and snacks and figure out life when your eligibility is over.
Totally agree. You're 23 years old with one last shot at an NCAA tourney, and who knows what kind of role you could have played in key moments when called upon. Is it really so terrible to be on a high major D1 team for another 6-8 weeks, even if you're not playing as much as you thought? It's not like you have an alternative at this point. A rash decision that I hope he doesn't come to regret but I fear he will. Holding out hope he'll reconsider with a renewed resolve and provide an emotional pickup to the team down the stretch.
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Totally agree. You're 23 years old with one last shot at an NCAA tourney, and who knows what kind of role you could have played in key moments when called upon. Is it really so terrible to be on a high major D1 team for another 6-8 weeks, even if you're not playing as much as you thought? It's not like you have an alternative at this point. A rash decision that I hope he doesn't come to regret but I fear he will. Holding out hope he'll reconsider with a renewed resolve and provide an emotional pickup to the team down the stretch.
For all the reasons mentioned above, it sure seems likely to me that this is about more than just playing time.
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Wait, I thought the whole thing was about bad team chemistry. The assumptions above are just about playing time.
Marquette had a problem with too much talent and ego at the forward position competing for starting roles and minutes. Combine that with a uniquely talented scoring guard who's not lacking in confidence either and chemistry issues could arise.
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Your argument essentially comes down to, "Players that are playing badly should get more minutes so they don't play as badly." Pretty much everyone disagrees with you, and that is OK...but we've heard this argument from you before. Maybe you should stop and let it pass?
End of the day, the track record under Wojo shows he struggles to coach/maintain relationships with the 5 through 11 guys on a roster - Matt Heldt aside. (I'll leave the ridiculous loss of Sam and Joey out of this.)
There is a reason a lot of these guys leave the program, or show little development if they stick around.
The continued churn under Wojo doesn't surprise me in the least. Agree to disagree about the cause and effect of why this continues to happen.
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End of the day, the track record under Wojo shows he struggles to coach/maintain relationships with the 5 through 11 guys on a roster - Matt Heldt aside. (I'll leave the ridiculous loss of Sam and Joey out of this.)
There is a reason a lot of these guys leave the program, or show little development if they stick around.
The continued churn under Wojo doesn't surprise me in the least. Agree to disagree about the cause and effect of why this continues to happen.
It happens at every program. This isn’t unique to Marquette or Wojo.
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I think he would have started because of his defense and to have a second true guard on the floor with Markus. I also think this years Brendan would have given Joey a run for his money. Sacar has more than earned a starting role.
Last years team was one solid guard away from being really good. This years team has some options with Koby and Symir starting to find their groove.
Based on defense, maybe Koby would have been in the mix with Sacar, Brendan, and Joey for a starting spot, but I think the'd be at the bottom of the pecking order among that group. Again, I think you're putting way too much emphasis on who's out there for the tip vs. who gets solid minutes.
The weakness on last year's team wasn't guard play. We had two solid guards last year. The issue was purely mental. Hence the 23-4 record halfway through conference play followed by a bizarre collapse. It would have been nice to have a true point guard, but the combination of Markus, Sacar, and Sam figured it out well enough.
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It happens at every program. This isn’t unique to Marquette or Wojo.
Would be interesting to see what the overall transfer numbers are in the Top 50 programs in current Ken Pom. Would then be interesting to see what the numbers look like mid-season.
The 40% transfer figure is a nice stat, no doubt. I suspect that number is not nearly as high in the Top 50 programs.
What definitely doesn't happen at every program is seeing transfers out like the Hausers.
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Would be interesting to see what the overall transfer numbers are in the Top 50 programs in current Ken Pom. Would then be interesting to see what the numbers look like mid-season.
The 40% transfer figure is a nice stat, no doubt. I suspect that number is not nearly as high in the Top 50 programs.
What definitely doesn't happen at every program is seeing transfers out like the Hausers.
Maryland just did.
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Would be interesting to see what the overall transfer numbers are in the Top 50 programs in current Ken Pom. Would then be interesting to see what the numbers look like mid-season.
The 40% transfer figure is a nice stat, no doubt. I suspect that number is not nearly as high in the Top 50 programs.
What definitely doesn't happen at every program is seeing transfers out like the Hausers.
I bet it is higher at top 50 programs. Everyone thinks they should be the showcase at those schools or realize they aren't at that tier.
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I cannot believe Wojo has not figured out that he needs to play every single player for 40 minutes and they will be Michael Jordan on steroids. What an idiot. He needs to use the 520 available minutes per game to get his full roster of 13 scholarship players 40 minutes per game. If he doesn't do that how in the world will we ever know what we have in a guy? Such inconsistent minutes doesn't allow for a player to even have a chance to play well.
Some people are obviously using Eds sudden departure as further evidence that Wojo is incompetent. Reality doesn't factor into their argument.
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Maryland just did.
So losing the freshman Mitchell brothers who played 11 and 16% of available minutes is comparable to losing the Hauser brothers? Seems like a stretch to me.
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Joel Barry had some thoughts on playing time.....and how changing his mindset turned his career around. Helps to have parents that keep it real too......
https://youtu.be/zi2H0CBkeIY
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Based on defense, maybe Koby would have been in the mix with Sacar, Brendan, and Joey for a starting spot, but I think the'd be at the bottom of the pecking order among that group. Again, I think you're putting way too much emphasis on who's out there for the tip vs. who gets solid minutes.
The weakness on last year's team wasn't guard play. We had two solid guards last year. The issue was purely mental. Hence the 23-4 record halfway through conference play followed by a bizarre collapse. It would have been nice to have a true point guard, but the combination of Markus, Sacar, and Sam figured it out well enough.
Who was our second solid guard last year? Sacar?
I love Sacar but he is not a point guard and neither is Markus for that matter.
With Koby in the mix the calculus changed dramatically for starting minutes this season, and if Sam and Joey had still been here things may have gotten even uglier. Someone had to go and it seems the best solution for all parties was for the Hausers to do what they did.
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If this is about PT, it's not on Wojo, it's on Ed. You don't quit on a team mid-season.
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Hausers, Cheatham, and Burton for me. Regardless of circumstances.
Cheatham left for family reasons....Burton the same...unless his sister, brother, etc are lying which I don’t believe the case.
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On strictly pragmatic terms Morrow would be well served to tough it out. It's not all about playing time. Long after his time on the court, it would be helpful to have that strong connection to the Marquette community. The world is about networking and burning bridges may feel good for the moment but in the long run it's self-destructive. My advice to any athlete in a comparable situation -- put on you big boy pants -- go to class, practice and keep developing your game. Take full advantage of the academic support team, eat those free meals and snacks and figure out life when your eligibility is over.
Thanks for Posting.
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It will be really fun to revisit this thread if it does turn out to be manageable and Ed returns.
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Im sorry, but I guess Im too old for these guys..... I was taught to Never quit....There is ALWAYS someone who plays better and more talented than you!!! You have to Work more and harder at it to get and be better... I guess i can see what Wojo mindset might be.... As the story goes, Wojo was told by Coach K, ( i think it was after Soph year) that he wasn't good enuf, and he would not be starting the following season... He didn't get pissed off and quit......Wojo went and dedicated himself and worked hard and got better.... He started the next season and became AA and Def player of the year.. SO, I think Wojo is blunt and tells the players where they stand... Some couldn't take the message and leave.. Too bad for them. I want players here who want to play for MU... Real Warriors ! ! ! Matt Heldt is the perfect example.. Sorry for the long diatribe... I know I will get roasted by some, but this is Just an Old Fan's opinion... 8-)
Old men rules....exactly.
The world has changed....unfortunately. Remember these kids these days (yup, old man talking) are used to bouncing around way more than we did. My dad would have killed me if I quit...ever. Finish what you started. I see kids now quitting high school teams, transfers to other high schools, quitting AAU teams, etc. Whole new mentality these days.
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Err, well, he said Wojo should play zone to "hide the bigs" and "should have played it against X". So never mind that MU won by 20, Theo and Jayce both had really good games, and MU dominated the boards...Wojo should have played zone. ::)
For five minutes. And it generally makes sense when down to two bigs who are in foul trouble.
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For five minutes. And it generally makes sense when down to two bigs who are in foul trouble.
It WILL happen if/when Theo and Jayce both get in early foul trouble. With Ed gone there aren't many other options.
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It will be really fun to revisit this thread if it does turn out to be manageable and Ed returns.
Depends what the circumstances of his departure were. Right now no one knows the full story. Sound familiar?
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All my opinion ...
It is fair to wonder how good Wojo is at managing egos, which is a major part of any coach's job. If he was great at it, one of the best, could Hausershima have been avoided, a couple of other transfers not happened, etc? We'll never know, but I'll say it's at least a maybe. He's a P6 head coach, he makes big bucks, and he has experience at a program where talented players were recruited over all the time and where egos were very large. So while I don't think it's fair to place all the blame on him -- especially when we don't know all the circumstances -- I do think it's fair to say it's not been one of his strengths, and because of that we might have lost some players we shouldn't have.
As for the Morrow situation itself ...
This never would have happened had Wojo simply not signed Jayce. Maybe there are a few Scoopers who think that's the way things should have gone. The Theo/Ed combo was good enough for us to have a 23-4 start to last season, and they certainly weren't primarily to blame for the collapse down the stretch. Maybe Wojo should have left well enough alone. That's reasonable.
I, for one, was glad he signed Jayce. I thought it was important to improve our depth at the 5 if he had the chance to do so. And as it turns out, Jayce has been a better player than Morrow for this team.
Now, did Wojo promise Morrow something when he signed Jayce? To keep Morrow from transferring before the season, when Morrow actually could have latched on elsewhere, did Wojo promise him 10 mpg at the 4, as well as time at the 5? If so, that would have been bad form. However, absent any evidence of that, I don't think it's fair to Wojo to imply that was the case. If Morrow had come to me after I signed Jayce and asked me what it meant for him, I'd have said, "We wanted to improve our depth, and we're never going to pass on a good player who wants to come to Marquette. We still value you and consider you a fine college player. But as always, playing time will depend on matchups, on who is playing best in a given game, foul trouble, etc." I like to think that's the kind of answer Wojo gave if Ed inquired.
So for me, the bottom line is that Wojo either should have or shouldn't have brought on Jayce. I'm glad he did.
I know there is at least one Scooper who thinks Ed was the best of them all, that he should have been starting over Theo all along and getting the majority of minutes at the 5. Given what we have seen from both players -- at their best and at their worst -- I respectfully but strongly disagree with that assessment.
I also disagree with those who contend that Ed rarely was given enough playing time to get in rhythm. There are plenty of reasons to criticize Wojo, but I don't believe the way he has allocated minutes to the 5 position is one of them.
I actually respect Ed walking away, assuming that's what he has done. Much better to do that than stick around and let team chemistry blow up. We saw how that played last season.
Finally, I was a bit snarky about it earlier, so I'll rephrase it: Wojo has landed a decent number of good to very good recruits, including a top-10 class just this year. Each of those recruits has cited the camaraderie, the cohesion, the "family atmosphere" (whatever terms one uses) of Wojo's program as a main reason he chose Marquette.
If the atmosphere were toxic, wouldn't a recruit sense that? If you were a current unhappy Warrior -- especially a senior, who would have no reason to hold back the truth -- wouldn't you pull aside a recruit and say, "Maybe you should think about going somewhere else, kid"? If Wojo and his assistants truly were horrible ego managers, wouldn't they have difficulty convincing big-ego high school prospects and transfers to attend MU in the first place?
By most accounts, several MU players were thinking about transferring after last season. Aside from the Hausers, none did. If they truly hated Wojo, why would they have stayed?
Every year, the NCAA sets a new record for college basketball transfers. IIRC, TAMU has cited reports showing that most of them are kids who get recruited over and decide to move down a level. That's been the case with the vast majority of Wojo's transfers.
I wish we would never lose a really talented player. I wish we didn't lose Blankson and Mason and Newbill and Mbakwe and Maymon and McKay and the Hausers and Burton. For that matter, I wish we didn't lose Christopherson and Cheatham and Carter. But that's life in 21st century college sports, my friends.
I agree with you on the reference to Duke but Duke does have a big advantage in one area. If there is an ego issue, the coaches can look a kid in the eye and say something to the effect of, "You sure you want to leave and blow a shot at a National Championship?" For Duke, that is a credible sentence almost every season. We do not have that luxury.
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It is very possible that Wojo's sales pitch doesn't live up to the experience for everyone once they get to Milwaukee. Is the difference in 5-8 minutes per game big enough for a guy to walk away from his college basketball career? Or could something else be going on in the relationship between player and coach? Is it possible that the Wojo the players get behind closed doors is different than the guy who sat on their living room couch and promised mom he'd take good care of the player? Maybe he's not the smiling Duke-molded Stepford coach we get at alumni events and in interviews.
It's also highly likely that 20-ish year olds that have always been at the top of the totem pole struggle dealing with the adversity that comes at this level of basketball. I absolutely get that. There's just been a lot of smoke with this fire during his tenure, and it has now been a significant storyline for the last 9 months.
The whole "it's fine to lose talented players because if they don't want to be here, we don't want them here" thought process seems naive to me. It's certainly one way to cope with a break up, but it's not completely honest.
This is an absolutely phenomenal post. Phenomenal.
To be fair, I think the first part that I bolded is nearly every high-level D1 coach.
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It will be really fun to revisit this thread if it does turn out to be manageable and Ed returns.
Agree
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This is an absolutely phenomenal post. Phenomenal.
To be fair, I think the first part that I bolded is nearly every high-level D1 coach.
Which is only natural because the feedback they get from a coach after playing for him for a while is obviously going to be different than the feedback they get from him before that.
This isn't a problem and it isn't a weakness...it's reality.
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It will be really fun to revisit this thread if it does turn out to be manageable and Ed returns.
Eye give dat zero% chance of happenin', hey?
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Whatever the reason behind Ed leaving the team -- apparently just hours before the Xavier game -- Marquette came out and played its best 40 minutes of basketball this season and beat a conference foe by 20. Not exactly a sign of a team suffering from poor leadership.
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Eye give dat zero% chance of happenin', hey?
About the same chance as you posting something coherent, hey?
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Whatever the reason behind Ed leaving the team -- apparently just hours before the Xavier game -- Marquette came out and played its best 40 minutes of basketball this season and beat a conference foe by 20. Not exactly a sign of a team suffering from poor leadership.
That IS something to consider.
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On the flipside, our bigs are generally not very good at kicking the ball back out if they don't have a good look. Once the ball gets into the paint, it stays there. I think our big guys force too many shots just because they're close to the hoop. Especially for a group that is more defense-focused than offense-focused, I'd like to see them get the ball back out to scorers more often.
Exactly how I feel. They should only be shooting, if they have the potential to dunk it.
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UPDATE: One of my all-time best MU buddies has a son that goes to MU now and knows many of the players. So here's the true story...he said the word all over campus is that Morrow quit the team because of the coaches and won't be coming back. No teal here - that is the inside scoop. He bailed out on the rest of the season and the potential to play in the tournament just to get away from WoJo. And that comes after wanting to transfer here so bad he sat out for a year.
So think about that...Morrow is a 5th year senior with no chance of transferring anywhere now. And yet he quit the team and gave up on any chance of playing in the tournament in his last season simply because he couldn't stand another minute of playing for WoJo. I think that's what we were all afraid of but were hoping wasn't the case. So now the reality is that 25% of last year's scholarship players walked away from a team that was projected to be in the top 5 this year solely for the reason that they didn't like playing for WoJo.
Don't shoot the messenger here - I'm just telling you what I heard from a very reliable current student on campus.
Discuss...
(p.s. - for the record I'm a WoJo supporter)
When he came here he was expecting to play forward and not center. Part of the reason he left Nebraska was he did not want to play center. This year he was promise to be given the opportunity to play power forward and worked on his outside shot all summer long. I could see him being upset with Wojo, if he felt Wojo ddi not keep his promise about playing forward. However, is there anyone here that thinks Morrow should be playing forward over Bailey and Cain? He simply does not have the skills to play forward.
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Exactly how I feel. They should only be shooting, if they have the potential to dunk it.
You've gotta love dunks. No more efficient shot than that. But they're not the only high-percentage look for Theo or Jayce. Against Xavier, those two combined to go 5 for 10 (50%) inside the arc with 3 assists and no turnovers. I have zero issues with their decisions on the offensive end.
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Exactly how I feel. They should only be shooting, if they have the potential to dunk it.
I thought in the X game both Theo, and Jayce showed good decision making in regards to taking the shot or kicking it out. I actually liked the aggressiveness in putting the ball back up underneath the hoop. Dunks would be nice but put backs or drawing a foul are nice outcomes also.
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Woj has to get better evaluating talent and be discriminating (can you say this word here?) with his scholarships. It does him no good to build internal team friction and animosity, particularly since it is obvious Woj is either incapable or unwilling to handle team disharmony. Poor strategy to get in bed with your superstar at the expense of other team members, hey?
In my opinion some of the problem comes from having to play freshmen more than they should have. Haanif played a lot as a freshmen, but saw his time decreasing after that. Same with Duane Wilson and the forward that transferred to UW Green Bay. Cain's playing time fell as a sophomore and maybe he would not of stayed if the Hauser's stayed.
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Folks,
How about taking a break from the 16+ pages of MU fan(gst) over the EM issue? Instead, here's a nice piece from today's San Diego Union-Tribune. Enjoy!
bu
p.s. Be sure to click on the second image in the article.
http://enewspaper.sandiegouniontribune.com/infinity/article_share.aspx?guid=b2f0a6d5-68fc-4a38-a933-3aa7b53eb568
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https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1211029841782415361
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In my opinion some of the problem comes from having to play freshmen more than they should have. Haanif played a lot as a freshmen, but saw his time decreasing after that. Same with Duane Wilson and the forward that transferred to UW Green Bay. Cain's playing time fell as a sophomore and maybe he would not of stayed if the Hauser's stayed.
This is a natural evolution from Wojo as a new unproven head coach to becoming an established coach. He’s pulling in better and better recruits the longer he’s here and that’s going to lead to roster churn. It’s a good thing.
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Folks,
How about taking a break from the 16+ pages of MU fan(gst) over the EM issue? Instead, here's a nice piece from today's San Diego Union-Tribune. Enjoy!
bu
p.s. Be sure to click on the second image in the article.
http://enewspaper.sandiegouniontribune.com/infinity/article_share.aspx?guid=b2f0a6d5-68fc-4a38-a933-3aa7b53eb568
Im Sorry, but this is a Marquette Hoops site.. This thread is about a MU player.. Your article can go on the SUPERBAR ! ! !
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This is a natural evolution from Wojo as a new unproven head coach to becoming an established coach. He’s pulling in better and better recruits the longer he’s here and that’s going to lead to roster churn. It’s a good thing.
Sounds like a problem Coach Cal would have.
Wait a minute.........
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Mr. G,
Check out the second half of the article and the second photo. Better yet, go to the "Why I'm a Marquette basketball fan" for a live-action video about the same player visit.
wildbill
p.s. Hats off to Chick on her great video find.
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About the same chance as you posting something coherent, hey?
Ewe obviously haveant bin readin' all my stuff lately, aina?
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Ewe obviously haveant bin readin' all my stuff lately, aina?
Hee obveeussly hazz.
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Old men rules....exactly.
The world has changed....unfortunately. Remember these kids these days (yup, old man talking) are used to bouncing around way more than we did. My dad would have killed me if I quit...ever. Finish what you started. I see kids now quitting high school teams, transfers to other high schools, quitting AAU teams, etc. Whole new mentality these days.
how many of those kids are doing that because of their parents? More often then not it's the parents who are telling the kid the grass is greener because they're having to pay ridiculous amounts for training, school, club teams, etc., and expect their kid to be the best and have the best so they can brag about them on social media. My buddy is an HS varsity hoops coach and the kids who have left his team or school are often doing so because of the decision mom and dad are making. That's the biggest epidemic in youth sports: sports parents.
The who trophy thing wasn't as much for the kids as it was the parents.
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Ed not in team picture tonight.
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Ed not in team picture tonight.
#DoneDeal
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Ed not in team picture tonight.
Greg in walking boot
https://mobile.twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1218318863244451845/photo/1
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how many of those kids are doing that because of their parents? More often then not it's the parents who are telling the kid the grass is greener because they're having to pay ridiculous amounts for training, school, club teams, etc., and expect their kid to be the best and have the best so they can brag about them on social media. My buddy is an HS varsity hoops coach and the kids who have left his team or school are often doing so because of the decision mom and dad are making. That's the biggest epidemic in youth sports: sports parents.
The who trophy thing wasn't as much for the kids as it was the parents.
Excellent point....the behavior has definitely been enabled, but at this level I have to pin most on the player. They are an adult, they want to be treated like an adult, then they need to make adult decisions. Agree with you on high school kids.
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Greg in walking boot
https://mobile.twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1218318863244451845/photo/1
At the MLK Memorial on MLK weekend
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EDIT: Joey should have just gone to MSU to begin with. IMO Sam would still be here and all would be well.
I've heard a lot of stories about Hausergate. The one that I find most believable supports this assertion.
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Ewe obviously haveant bin readin' all my stuff lately, aina?
4ever, you are a great MU fan. As are your 70s brethren. Keep up your posts. As stupid as some of them are, when you are serious you make a lot of sense and have great points to make. I respect you more than many of your comrades because you have been consistent in your criticism of Wojo and have not sugar coated it. Others have have been passive aggressive and condescending and you have not . Keep up the posts (both goofy and serious). Your opinion is well respected.
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I've heard a lot of stories about Hausergate. The one that I find most believable supports this assertion.
Yes, Joey should have went to MSU to begin with...BUT...He didn't!!! So If Markus would have left(declared for draft) and The Hausers would have returned this year, then MU would have also lost Sacar prob Ed and poss Jamal...Lose 3 but keep 2... Where would we be now??? Hmmmm 8-)
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Yes, Joey should have went to MSU to begin with...BUT...He didn't!!! So If Markus would have left(declared for draft) and The Hausers would have returned this year, then MU would have also lost Sacar prob Ed and poss Jamal...Lose 3 but keep 2... Where would we be now??? Hmmmm 8-)
Did I miss some info on Sacar Ed and Jamal leaving (maybe) if the hausers stay?
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Did I miss some info on Sacar Ed and Jamal leaving (maybe) if the hausers stay?
The painting of Sam and Joey as bad guys last year is complete nonsense.
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Did I miss some info on Sacar Ed and Jamal leaving (maybe) if the hausers stay?
Yes, guz is reposting information for the premium board.
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The painting of Sam and Joey as bad guys last year is complete nonsense.
There aint no good guy
There aint no bad guy
There's only you and me and we just disagree
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The painting of Sam and Joey as bad guys last year is complete nonsense.
We know, Markus the Cancer is the bad guy.
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4ever, you are a great MU fan. As are your 70s brethren. Keep up your posts. As stupid as some of them are, when you are serious you make a lot of sense and have great points to make. I respect you more than many of your comrades because you have been consistent in your criticism of Wojo and have not sugar coated it. Others have have been passive aggressive and condescending and you have not . Keep up the posts (both goofy and serious). Your opinion is well respected.
Thank you, your thoughts are very much appreciated.
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There aint no good guy
There aint no bad guy
There's only you and me and we just disagree
Love it.
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I agree with you on the reference to Duke but Duke does have a big advantage in one area. If there is an ego issue, the coaches can look a kid in the eye and say something to the effect of, "You sure you want to leave and blow a shot at a National Championship?" For Duke, that is a credible sentence almost every season. We do not have that luxury.
You are right. We dont have that luxury, but there is no reason why we should not have that luxury. Resources, arena, history, conference, etc.
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Shooter
Great post on 4ever. While you and I battle, you are 100% correct on Doc. He and Lenny know their stuff at a very high level and want MU to succeed. Well done, Shooter.
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There aint no good guy
There aint no bad guy
There's only you and me and we just disagree
Epic.
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There aint no good guy
There aint no bad guy
There's only you and me and we just disagree
Going old school I see
https://youtu.be/b2ff8qXa248