MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on January 08, 2020, 10:22:27 PM
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The Texas fanbase is done with Shaka and the MU Fanbase has a sour taste in their mouths with Wojo. Wouldn't it be ironic if both were let go at the end of the season?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENz4ybBXUAUF0-V?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
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Wojo will not be let go.
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Ah, the #donedeal.
When all the misleading haikus in the world couldn’t bring him to MU.
A simpler time.
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Ah, the #donedeal.
That was a fun night.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=43037.0
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How many topics is MikeDeanesDarkGlasses going to start that say the exact same thing?
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The best cure for avoiding his repeating posts is winning. Lets all hope and pray that Wojo and this team can do that. For the sake of our sanity and reading pleasure.
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How many topics is MikeDeanesDarkGlasses going to start that say the exact same thing?
I'd wager at least 1 per week
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All the letters typed about Wojo being let go are wasted. Until the BOT (currently very satisfied) and specifically Doc (extremely satisfied) turns on Wojo his seat is as cool as possible.
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MikeDeanesDarkGlasses- One man's obsessed mission/calling in life to remove Wojo.
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How many topics is MikeDeanesDarkGlasses going to start that say the exact same thing?
I will keep posting until you start learning how to tell the difference between a cubic zirconium and a diamond
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most "Texas fans" couldn't identify Shaka since he's not a football coach. But, like what happened with Charlie Strong, once there heard about a certain characteristic Shaka has that determined their opposition to him before he even coached a game.
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The Texas fanbase is done with Shaka and the MU Fanbase has a sour taste in their mouths with Wojo. Wouldn't it be ironic if both were let go at the end of the season?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ENz4ybBXUAUF0-V?format=jpg&name=4096x4096)
You know what? I got a question for ya.
Just before Texas hired Shaka they got disgusted with their coach who was then fired. Where did he end up and how did that turn out?
Special bonus question #1. What awards did this coach earn at the end of last season?
Special bonus question #2. Who recruited Kevin Durant to Texas?
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That was a fun night.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=43037.0
That was a roller coaster to read again.
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most "Texas fans" couldn't identify Shaka since he's not a football coach. But, like what happened with Charlie Strong, once there heard about a certain characteristic Shaka has that determined their opposition to him before he even coached a game.
Are you seriously suggesting that people objected to Smart's ethnicity?
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https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/insider/story/_/id/28447581/the-2020-college-basketball-hot-seat-revolves-shaka-smart-acc-quartet
Part about marquette: . A year ago at this time, Marquette's Markus Howard had established himself as perhaps the best show in college basketball. It feels as if the buzz has quieted somewhat -- but Howard is arguably better across the board when it comes to scoring. He's averaging more points per game, shooting better from 3-point range and is more efficient offensively than a year ago. Marquette is only one game worse than it was after 15 games last season and is only two spots lower in KenPom's rankings after 15 games.
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All the letters typed about Wojo being let go are wasted. Until the BOT (currently very satisfied) and specifically Doc (extremely satisfied) turns on Wojo his seat is as cool as possible.
How do you know this for sure?
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How do you know this for sure?
He doesn't.
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He doesn't.
He does.
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He doesn't.
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/SoqyrdRkjBXwc/source.gif)
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It absolutely blows me away that Doc Rivers is somehow the Godfather of Marquette basketball. Besides showing up at home games centered around his NBA duties, what has he done?
It seems like he has done close to zero with his pulpit, you rarely here him interject MU into conversation
It seems like he has done close to zero with his pocket book, I bet if he donated ANYTHING of note MU would broadcast it
It seems like he has done close to zero with his persona, has he ever popped up at a road game, tweeted agony have a loss, shown up at a presser in MU gear, etc
It seems like he has done close to zero with his parenting, his kids went to Georgetown and Duke, I don't expect him to push them to MU, but did he even encourage?
Now, don't get me wrong, Doc doesn't owe us any of this but if he's our "decider" then I would like to see some public support.
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Are you seriously suggesting that people objected to Smart's ethnicity?
yes, just like they did with Charlie Strong before Strong had ever coached a game.
https://www.texasobserver.org/ut-football-charlie-strong-segregation/
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It absolutely blows me away that Doc Rivers is somehow the Godfather of Marquette basketball. Besides showing up at home games centered around his NBA duties, what has he done?
It seems like he has done close to zero with his pulpit, you rarely here him interject MU into conversation
It seems like he has done close to zero with his pocket book, I bet if he donated ANYTHING of note MU would broadcast it
It seems like he has done close to zero with his persona, has he ever popped up at a road game, tweeted agony have a loss, shown up at a presser in MU gear, etc
It seems like he has done close to zero with his parenting, his kids went to Georgetown and Duke, I don't expect him to push them to MU, but did he even encourage?
Now, don't get me wrong, Doc doesn't owe us any of this but if he's our "decider" then I would like to see some public support.
He was on the Board of Trustees (he termed out last year), and was extremely active in the coaching search that resulted in hiring Wojo, including flying around the country during basketball season to be involved. (I believe he was in Shaka's living room.)
And he was at the Jacksonville game, and spoke to the team beforehand.
He's been pretty supportive.
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All the letters typed about Wojo being let go are wasted. Until the BOT (currently very satisfied) and specifically Doc (extremely satisfied) turns on Wojo his seat is as cool as possible.
Let's hope the next coaching decision is made by the professionals in Athletics Department versus a committee. MU was a mess last time. MU's history with committee hires is not very good.
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We can play the what-if game all we want, but...
Let's say that Shaka gets hired at MU in April, 2014. It's possible he gets to flip a number (if not all) of his (then) VCU commits - Terry Larrier, Michael Gilmore, Justin Tillman and/or Jonathan Williams - to come along as well. Maybe Cohen stays, maybe he doesn't. Very unlikely that Carlino comes along, and probably even more unlikely that the Ellensons come along as well. Due to youth, but full recruiting class, we probably don't make the tournament, but are very likely to be better than the 13-19 final record we had that year (14-15).
Anyways, Billy Donovan takes the OKC job in April, 2015 (Shaka had taken the Texas job in March, 2015). Shaka had ties to Florida under Donovan, and it is very possible that Florida wants Shaka to replace Donovan after a solid, but unspectacular, start at MU. Let's say Florida gets Shaka. Marquette, then, would have had three head coaches in prior seven seasons (Crean, Buzz, Shaka).
Who was high in the coaching cycle in 2015? Avery Johnson, Bobby Hurley, Steve Prohm, Nate Oats, Will Wade, Ben Howland and Rick Barnes were the bigger (now) names at that point. In addition, Brian Wardle gets hired at Bradley. It's very likely that Howland (again) gets another serious look, as well as Wardle (who, as an alum, would be very unlikely to immediately bolt for a bigger job).
Who knows, but always interesting to wonder what would have happened if a couple of events went the other way...
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How many topics is MikeDeanesDarkGlasses going to start that say the exact same thing?
He's one of the main reasons I recently joined the board and started some counter threads. I apologize for any pollution I've caused on the board but some of his crap really needs to be challenged.
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He was on the Board of Trustees (he termed out last year), and was extremely active in the coaching search that resulted in hiring Wojo, including flying around the country during basketball season to be involved. (I believe he was in Shaka's living room.)
And he was at the Jacksonville game, and spoke to the team beforehand.
He's been pretty supportive.
I know he was on the BOT and of course he was at the Jacksonville Game, his team was in town to play the Bucks. Hearing that he was in Shaka's living room is refreshing. That shows a certain kind of commitment that as I pointed out beforehand, I had not "publicly" seen from him.
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Doc Rivers was not extremely active in any coaching search. That is inaccurate. Doc has definitely helped, but not much heavy lifting and the BOT takes any stamp of approval Doc throws their way. It is time to move on from Doc being the Godfather of MU ball.
I say it every time Doc's name come up, I think Doc is great but we should have a much deeper pool of high end help when running the ball program. The guy is removed from MU for the most part and coaching an NBA team whenever a coach needs to be hired. He has rubber stamped last two hires and rubber stamped Shaka prior to Wojo getting hired.
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Doc Rivers was not extremely active in any coaching search. That is inaccurate. Doc has definitely helped, but not much heavy lifting and the BOT takes any stamp of approval Doc throws their way. It is time to move on from Doc being the Godfather of MU ball.
I say it every time Doc's name come up, I think Doc is great but we should have a much deeper pool of high end help when running the ball program. The guy is removed from MU for the most part and coaching an NBA team whenever a coach needs to be hired. He has rubber stamped last two hires and rubber stamped Shaka prior to Wojo getting hired.
Thank you for the clarity, what you spell out has always been my sense.
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We can play the what-if game all we want, but...
Let's say that Shaka gets hired at MU in April, 2014. It's possible he gets to flip a number (if not all) of his (then) VCU commits - Terry Larrier, Michael Gilmore, Justin Tillman and/or Jonathan Williams - to come along as well. Maybe Cohen stays, maybe he doesn't. Very unlikely that Carlino comes along, and probably even more unlikely that the Ellensons come along as well. Due to youth, but full recruiting class, we probably don't make the tournament, but are very likely to be better than the 13-19 final record we had that year (14-15).
Anyways, Billy Donovan takes the OKC job in April, 2015 (Shaka had taken the Texas job in March, 2015). Shaka had ties to Florida under Donovan, and it is very possible that Florida wants Shaka to replace Donovan after a solid, but unspectacular, start at MU. Let's say Florida gets Shaka. Marquette, then, would have had three head coaches in prior seven seasons (Crean, Buzz, Shaka).
Who was high in the coaching cycle in 2015? Avery Johnson, Bobby Hurley, Steve Prohm, Nate Oats, Will Wade, Ben Howland and Rick Barnes were the bigger (now) names at that point. In addition, Brian Wardle gets hired at Bradley. It's very likely that Howland (again) gets another serious look, as well as Wardle (who, as an alum, would be very unlikely to immediately bolt for a bigger job).
Who knows, but always interesting to wonder what would have happened if a couple of events went the other way...
Also - what if: If Wojo ends up taking the VCU job (East coast, strong A10 program and Capel, former Duke assistant, had success there) once Shaka got hired by MU.
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We need a 30 for 30 on #DoneDeal
Who IWB talked to and when
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Doc Rivers was not extremely active in any coaching search. That is inaccurate. Doc has definitely helped, but not much heavy lifting and the BOT takes any stamp of approval Doc throws their way. It is time to move on from Doc being the Godfather of MU ball.
I say it every time Doc's name come up, I think Doc is great but we should have a much deeper pool of high end help when running the ball program. The guy is removed from MU for the most part and coaching an NBA team whenever a coach needs to be hired. He has rubber stamped last two hires and rubber stamped Shaka prior to Wojo getting hired.
You would know more than I would so what I heard was not accurate and/or I misremembered.
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It absolutely blows me away that Doc Rivers is somehow the Godfather of Marquette basketball. Besides showing up at home games centered around his NBA duties, what has he done?
It seems like he has done close to zero with his pulpit, you rarely here him interject MU into conversation
It seems like he has done close to zero with his pocket book, I bet if he donated ANYTHING of note MU would broadcast it
It seems like he has done close to zero with his persona, has he ever popped up at a road game, tweeted agony have a loss, shown up at a presser in MU gear, etc
It seems like he has done close to zero with his parenting, his kids went to Georgetown and Duke, I don't expect him to push them to MU, but did he even encourage?
Now, don't get me wrong, Doc doesn't owe us any of this but if he's our "decider" then I would like to see some public support.
When my son was admitted to MU he wrote him a congraulatory letter on LA Clippers stationary about the virtues of Marquette and urged him to go there. I believe the letter went to other Southern California admittees.
Part of parenting is letting your kids decide...he shouldn't force his kids to go to MU. I tried to talk my son out of going to MU and instead go to Pitt, Syracuse and a few of the Pac 12 schools he was admitted to. I'm glad he made the decision for his reasons, not anything I would say to influence him. Even more so for someone like Doc who played and having one of his kids also play, just not fair to the kid.
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The other name that people seem to forget during #DoneDeal is Ben Howland. Ironically, he's had the same success as Wojo/Smart. All 3 have been mediocre. The 2 hires that year that have produced the most are Kelvin Sampson and Bruce Pearl.
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The other name that people seem to forget during #DoneDeal is Ben Howland. Ironically, he's had the same success as Wojo/Smart. All 3 have been mediocre. The 2 hires that year that have produced the most are Kelvin Sampson and Bruce Pearl.
Bruce Pearl....should have a NCAA investigation membership card by now. But hey, he's really a cool dude and funny (he is), so the pass he gets is comical.
Kelvin Sampson...good coach....also been in hot water with two schools with each being sanctioned by the NCAA.
Yup, two good examples.
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All the letters typed about Wojo being let go are wasted. Until the BOT (currently very satisfied) and specifically Doc (extremely satisfied) turns on Wojo his seat is as cool as possible.
This is as equally as credible as stating Wojo's seat is red hot and will be fired without NCAA tourney success.
Both statements are letters typed about Wojo on a fan forum.
What we do know as fact is MU just gave him a modest contract extension. IMO they seem to like not love him based upon that.
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When my son was admitted to MU he wrote him a congraulatory letter on LA Clippers stationary about the virtues of Marquette and urged him to go there. I believe the letter went to other Southern California admittees.
Part of parenting is letting your kids decide...he shouldn't force his kids to go to MU. I tried to talk my son out of going to MU and instead go to Pitt, Syracuse and a few of the Pac 12 schools he was admitted to. I'm glad he made the decision for his reasons, not anything I would say to influence him. Even more so for someone like Doc who played and having one of his kids also play, just not fair to the kid.
I have 3 kids and I hope all of them go somewhere else and see things I haven't. I was merely using it as one data point for the Godfather of Marquette basketball and I couched it with I didn't expect him to push MU.
The Clippers letterhead is a nice touch.
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When my son was admitted to MU he wrote him a congraulatory letter on LA Clippers stationary about the virtues of Marquette and urged him to go there. I believe the letter went to other Southern California admittees.
Part of parenting is letting your kids decide...he shouldn't force his kids to go to MU. I tried to talk my son out of going to MU and instead go to Pitt, Syracuse and a few of the Pac 12 schools he was admitted to. I'm glad he made the decision for his reasons, not anything I would say to influence him. Even more so for someone like Doc who played and having one of his kids also play, just not fair to the kid.
Wait, so are you saying you're a WarriorDad?
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The 2 hires that year that have produced the most are Kelvin Sampson and Bruce Pearl.
Neither of whom were ever going to be considered by Marquette. Honestly, even Wojo critics would probably have to concede that MU made the best coaching hire of the guys that were realistic candidates that year.
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Since we’re rehashing the 2014 coaching search, is it true the job was Cuonzo’s to lose after Shaka bowed out, but he tanked his interview?
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Since we’re rehashing the 2014 coaching search, is it true the job was Cuonzo’s to lose after Shaka bowed out, but he tanked his interview?
I read he turned MU down which would imply Wojo was a 2nd choice at best.
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Bruce Pearl....should have a NCAA investigation membership card by now. But hey, he's really a cool dude and funny (he is), so the pass he gets is comical.
Kelvin Sampson...good coach....also been in hot water with two schools with each being sanctioned by the NCAA.
Yup, two good examples.
The NCAA really took care of both. Bruce is on what? His fourth major infractions scandal?
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Since we’re rehashing the 2014 coaching search, is it true the job was Cuonzo’s to lose after Shaka bowed out, but he tanked his interview?
I'm not sure if it was his to lose, but I've heard his interview did not go well and MU was not impressed at all.
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I'm not sure if it was his to lose, but I've heard his interview did not go well and MU was not impressed at all.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10707907/cuonzo-martin-tennessee-volunteers-removes-self-marquette-golden-eagles-coaching-search
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Wait, so are you saying you're a WarriorDad?
Yes, and potentially soon a Bulldog, Musketeer, Bruin, Blue Demon, Trojan, etc dad, too.
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I read he turned MU down which would imply Wojo was a 2nd choice at best.
You read wrong. Cuonzo pulled out to save face, Wojo blew them away with the Power Point....don’t you remember.
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The NCAA really took care of both. Bruce is on what? His fourth major infractions scandal?
I would love for the NCAA to do some show cause penalties more often, but of course that would make me a “tyrant”
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https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10707907/cuonzo-martin-tennessee-volunteers-removes-self-marquette-golden-eagles-coaching-search
Yes...after he bombed the interview. He took himself out of the running because he knew there was no chance he was going to get the job. Better to look like you chose not to take the job than lose out.
There was legitimate interest, which is why he got the interview. But after the interview, there was no shot of him getting the job.
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Yes...after he bombed the interview. He took himself out of the running because he knew there was no chance he was going to get the job. Better to look like you chose not to take the job than lose out.
There was legitimate interest, which is why he got the interview. But after the interview, there was no shot of him getting the job.
And what was the source of this story where ..... Cuonzo didn't impress them? I took that as rumor as I don't recall reading anything about that.
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And what was the source of this story where ..... Cuonzo didn't impress them? I took that as rumor as I don't recall reading anything about that.
If you are only reading what was put out publicly, you wouldn't have heard that. Marquette didn't do any badmouthing of Martin. But it wasn't exactly private around Marquette that Martin's interview didn't go well, nor was it private that Wojo really impressed in his own interview.
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If you are only reading what was put out publicly, you wouldn't have heard that. Marquette didn't do any badmouthing of Martin. But it wasn't exactly private around Marquette that Martin's interview didn't go well, nor was it private that Wojo really impressed in his own interview.
Of course, MU isn't going to put anyone down after an interview publicly. Thing is, did Martin even want the job? I have problems with hearsay because a lot of times the teller of the information wants only a certain portion of the info to get out. If Martin did turn it down, then of course MU would say he didn't interview well (rumor mill). And of course, the guy they hire, will surely impress as well. So I take it with a grain of salt. Regardless, it doesn't matter at this point. Although, I would have loved to have been in the interview process. Maybe Cuonzo did poorly, but Cal and Missouri hired him, so there is that counterpoint.
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Also - what if: If Wojo ends up taking the VCU job (East coast, strong A10 program and Capel, former Duke assistant, had success there) once Shaka got hired by MU.
Wojo was not going to take the VCU job. He had been offered plenty of head coaching jobs before taking Marquette. He would not have to settle for VCU. Maybe Wojo leaves to succeed Coach K, maybe he gets hired by another program, maybe the board's habitual late night car alarm gets his wet dream, or maybe he stays at Marquette for a long time, perhaps a career. That is at least a possibility at Marquette. It was not going to happen at VCU.
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Considering Buzz’s eccentricities and vagabond tendencies, it’s easy to see why Wojo, 20 year Duke mainstay and all-around Stepford Coach, was hired. Martin isn’t the same as Buzz, but they’re cut from a similar cloth, and I can understand how his interview might’ve gone poorly. If he was interviewing in 2008 post-Crean, it might’ve been a different story. Cuonzo interviewed at the wrong time, but I didn’t think he was the right guy anyway.
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Of course, MU isn't going to put anyone down after an interview publicly. Thing is, did Martin even want the job? I have problems with hearsay because a lot of times the teller of the information wants only a certain portion of the info to get out. If Martin did turn it down, then of course MU would say he didn't interview well (rumor mill). And of course, the guy they hire, will surely impress as well. So I take it with a grain of salt. Regardless, it doesn't matter at this point. Although, I would have loved to have been in the interview process. Maybe Cuonzo did poorly, but Cal and Missouri hired him, so there is that counterpoint.
Cal hired him and what happened?
He left after three years. Just as he left Tennessee after 3 years. As he left Miss State after 3 years. Like a clock.
He took over at Cal for Mike Montgomery...a very solid coach in a piss poor conference. One NCAA tournament in three years...sounds a lot like Wojo except Martin took over a program that went deep into the NIT and has marshmallow soft Pac 12 competition.
Missouri....Cuonzo in year three is struggling...year two was a disaster and this year not very good. Lost to 314th ranked Charleston Southern.
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Wojo was not going to take the VCU job. He had been offered plenty of head coaching jobs before taking Marquette. He would not have to settle for VCU. Maybe Wojo leaves to succeed Coach K, maybe he gets hired by another program, maybe the board's habitual late night car alarm gets his wet dream, or maybe he stays at Marquette for a long time, perhaps a career. That is at least a possibility at Marquette. It was not going to happen at VCU.
not a chance. Honestly, if K were to retire at the end of this year the guy I think they go all in on is Brad Stevens.
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The other name that people seem to forget during #DoneDeal is Ben Howland. Ironically, he's had the same success as Wojo/Smart. All 3 have been mediocre. The 2 hires that year that have produced the most are Kelvin Sampson and Bruce Pearl.
Ben Howland is at MS State. Even Howland haters have to admit that Marquette is a waaaaaaaay way waaaaaaaaaay better job.
Also, Gregg Marshall was floated around. And I swear Jamie Dixon was too (somebody saw him at the Pfister or something)
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Of course, MU isn't going to put anyone down after an interview publicly. Thing is, did Martin even want the job? I have problems with hearsay because a lot of times the teller of the information wants only a certain portion of the info to get out. If Martin did turn it down, then of course MU would say he didn't interview well (rumor mill). And of course, the guy they hire, will surely impress as well. So I take it with a grain of salt. Regardless, it doesn't matter at this point. Although, I would have loved to have been in the interview process. Maybe Cuonzo did poorly, but Cal and Missouri hired him, so there is that counterpoint.
Did Martin want the job? Definitely. Remember, he was under heavy fire at Tennessee. He wanted out and the fanbase wanted him out. Marquette was the first place he went, but ultimately, he just wanted any job other than UT, which is why he went to Cal right after. Look at the timeline...
- March 31, 2014: Martin pulls out of Marquette search
- April 1, 2014: Wojo hired, Martin publicly says "Tennessee is where I want to be, that has never changed." (https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2014-04-15/cuonzo-martin-hired-california-after-three-seasons-tennessee)
- April 15, 2014: Martin hired at Cal.
He was desperate to get out, when it was obvious Marquette was going to hire Wojo, he pulled his name and tried to save face at UT while continuing to seek another job. You can take it with a grain of salt all you want, but I don't think anyone in the know would dispute that the interview process made it quickly clear that admin wasn't interested in Martin and did want Wojo. All the circumstantial reporting confirms what is pretty well known around campus.
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Did Martin want the job? Definitely. Remember, he was under heavy fire at Tennessee. He wanted out and the fanbase wanted him out. Marquette was the first place he went, but ultimately, he just wanted any job other than UT, which is why he went to Cal right after. Look at the timeline...
- March 31, 2014: Martin pulls out of Marquette search
- April 1, 2014: Wojo hired, Martin publicly says "Tennessee is where I want to be, that has never changed." (https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2014-04-15/cuonzo-martin-hired-california-after-three-seasons-tennessee)
- April 15, 2014: Martin hired at Cal.
He was desperate to get out, when it was obvious Marquette was going to hire Wojo, he pulled his name and tried to save face at UT while continuing to seek another job. You can take it with a grain of salt all you want, but I don't think anyone in the know would dispute that the interview process made it quickly clear that admin wasn't interested in Martin and did want Wojo. All the circumstantial reporting confirms what is pretty well known around campus.
Or you can look at it as: Martin said no, which put MU in the position of scrambling to hire someone with no head coaching experience. I mean.....who's left after Shaka, Martin, in their eyes? That's a pretty desperate situation to be in, especially when hiring options are almost nil.
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Or you can look at it as: Martin said no, which put MU in the position of scrambling to hire someone with no head coaching experience. I mean.....who's left after Shaka, Martin, in their eyes? That's a pretty desperate situation to be in, especially when hiring options are almost nil.
If your entire dream is to hate Wojo, you can believe that. No one else close to campus believe it, but if you want to believe that, knock yourself out. It's a complete fiction of your own invention, but feel free.
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Or you can look at it as: Martin said no, which put MU in the position of scrambling to hire someone with no head coaching experience. I mean.....who's left after Shaka, Martin, in their eyes? That's a pretty desperate situation to be in, especially when hiring options are almost nil.
So the Cal job, paying way less and a long way from his recruiting base was better?
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Ben Howland is at MS State. Even Howland haters have to admit that Marquette is a waaaaaaaay way waaaaaaaaaay better job.
Also, Gregg Marshall was floated around. And I swear Jamie Dixon was too (somebody saw him at the Pfister or something)
Howland wanted the job but after what happened at UCLA MU didn't want him.
Dixon? Not a chance considering they wanted the anti-Buzz and Dixon is not that. Marshall? Maybe, but it's more likely both he and Dixon were message board pipe dreams.
That's the fun part of coaching searches, especially having been involved in them - names get reported as candidates or even having been offered when in reality they were never even considered. I had to laugh at one newspaper report saying a legendary player was under consideration for a job for which I was serving on a committee when the reality was there was someone else with the same first name that was a candidate, but the individual the paper said was a finalist.
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Or you can look at it as: Martin said no, which put MU in the position of scrambling to hire someone with no head coaching experience. I mean.....who's left after Shaka, Martin, in their eyes? That's a pretty desperate situation to be in, especially when hiring options are almost nil.
So your saying Marquette just got really lucky.
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Howland wanted the job but after what happened at UCLA MU didn't want him.
Dixon? Not a chance considering they wanted the anti-Buzz and Dixon is not that. Marshall? Maybe, but it's more likely both he and Dixon were message board pipe dreams.
That's the fun part of coaching searches, especially having been involved in them - names get reported as candidates or even having been offered when in reality they were never even considered. I had to laugh at one newspaper report saying a legendary player was under consideration for a job for which I was serving on a committee when the reality was there was someone else with the same first name that was a candidate, but the individual the paper said was a finalist.
Precisely. It's almost a waste of time to analyze the process of the hire. There's so much disinformation out there.
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i wonder what the mrs. thinks about milwaukee/MU now? ;)
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i wonder what the mrs. thinks about milwaukee/MU now? ;)
She’s living in Austin. She’s fine.
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She’s living in Austin. She’s fine.
didn't ask where she was, but you and the mrs. pretty tight then, eyn'a?
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Cal hired him and what happened?
He left after three years. Just as he left Tennessee after 3 years. As he left Miss State after 3 years. Like a clock.
He took over at Cal for Mike Montgomery...a very solid coach in a piss poor conference. One NCAA tournament in three years...sounds a lot like Wojo except Martin took over a program that went deep into the NIT and has marshmallow soft Pac 12 competition.
Missouri....Cuonzo in year three is struggling...year two was a disaster and this year not very good. Lost to 314th ranked Charleston Southern.
Each of those was a step up. Of course he went from Missouri State to Tennessee. Who wouldn't? He actually did well at Tennessee, but the locals were pining for Bruce Pearl. I do not blame him for wanting to go somewhere he was actually wanted. And the move to Missouri was a return home. Time will tell how well he does there, but lots of coaches have done worse. I think the expectation of many that coaches turn teams around in three years or less is unrealistic and foolish, but fan is short for fanatic.
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Each of those was a step up. Of course he went from Missouri State to Tennessee. Who wouldn't? He actually did well at Tennessee, but the locals were pining for Bruce Pearl. I do not blame him for wanting to go somewhere he was actually wanted. And the move to Missouri was a return home. Time will tell how well he does there, but lots of coaches have done worse. I think the expectation of many that coaches turn teams around in three years or less is unrealistic and foolish, but fan is short for fanatic.
Missouri was getting out while he could.
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Missouri was getting out while he could.
Mizzou is a better job than Cal. It's in the same tier as MU. Not to mention, Martin grew up in St. Louis so it's probably his dream job.
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not a chance. Honestly, if K were to retire at the end of this year the guy I think they go all in on is Brad Stevens.
Been saying that for five years
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Or you can look at it as: Martin said no, which put MU in the position of scrambling to hire someone with no head coaching experience. I mean.....who's left after Shaka, Martin, in their eyes? That's a pretty desperate situation to be in, especially when hiring options are almost nil.
Dude....MU after the interview process wanted Wojo more than Martin. It is that simple. When it came down to the final few candidates, Wojo was the guy they wanted and got. Coach K’s endorsement also went a long way if you know what was going on.
That doesn’t mean Wojo was candidate one when abuzz left...he wasn’t. But after the dust settled and it became go time, he was the guy. Martin was able to save face. Stop with the BS
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Precisely. It's almost a waste of time to analyze the process of the hire. There's so much disinformation out there.
No, at this point years later and who knows whom, there isn’t much disinformation any longer. In the fog of war...yes. After, no.
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Been saying that for five years
Stevens has at worst a top-5 job in the NBA. I don't think any college job would interest him in the least, especially considering his reputation for not being enamored with the recruiting process.
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Each of those was a step up. Of course he went from Missouri State to Tennessee. Who wouldn't? He actually did well at Tennessee, but the locals were pining for Bruce Pearl. I do not blame him for wanting to go somewhere he was actually wanted. And the move to Missouri was a return home. Time will tell how well he does there, but lots of coaches have done worse. I think the expectation of many that coaches turn teams around in three years or less is unrealistic and foolish, but fan is short for fanatic.
I don’t begrudge him for taking a step up, but Cal isn’t a step up from Tennessee. I remember the UT fans wanting Pearl out and my biggest concern back at the time was he would go to Mizzou first chance he could. That proved to be true from Cal.
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If, God forbid, something would happen to coach K mid season, and Wojo made himself available, I could see Duke seriously considering him. He might be in their top 5. Closer to 1 or 5 I'm not sure. As someone who would prefer the continuity of Wojo and this incoming class, I would be very nervous.
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If, God forbid, something would happen to coach K mid season, and Wojo made himself available, I could see Duke seriously considering him. He might be in their top 5. Closer to 1 or 5 I'm not sure. As someone who would prefer the continuity of Wojo and this incoming class, I would be very nervous.
At least put a hyperlink somewhere if you want to capture the essence of a clickbait topic.
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If, God forbid, something would happen to coach K mid season, and Wojo made himself available, I could see Duke seriously considering him. He might be in their top 5. Closer to 1 or 5 I'm not sure. As someone who would prefer the continuity of Wojo and this incoming class, I would be very nervous.
Is this a joke?
There is a 0.0% chance Duke would consider Wojo.
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I don’t begrudge him for taking a step up, but Cal isn’t a step up from Tennessee. I remember the UT fans wanting Pearl out and my biggest concern back at the time was he would go to Mizzou first chance he could. That proved to be true from Cal.
Tennessee fans did not want Pearl out. He was very well liked but was fired by Tennessee for lying to the NCAA investigators. Fast forward Martin was his replacement and the fans never liked him because he wasn’t Pearl.
The hope from some fans was to get Martin fired so they could rehire Pearl after the dust settled. The situation was bad for Martin and he wanted out. Many thought he would land at MU but the vibe was he wasn’t as interested MU as he was interested in getting out of that situation.
When MU landed on Wojo, Martin pulled out and then later moved on to Cal. He realized that Cal wasn’t the place to be and left again. He would have left MU as well.
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Tennessee fans did not want Pearl out. He was very well liked but was fired by Tennessee for lying to the NCAA investigators. Fast forward Martin was his replacement and the fans never liked him because he wasn’t Pearl.
The hope from some fans was to get Martin fired so they could rehire Pearl after the dust settled. The situation was bad for Martin and he wanted out. Many thought he would land at MU but the vibe was he wasn’t as interested MU as he was interested in getting out of that situation.
When MU landed on Wojo, Martin pulled out and then later moved on to Cal. He realized that Cal wasn’t the place to be and left again. He would have left MU as well.
Summary of the situation.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/new-faces-new-places-cuonzo-martin-knew-it-was-time-to-leave-vols/
Unrelated to on court performance he had this issue in year 2 at Cal when his assistant coach tried to get a reporter to sleep with him.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2625139-cuonzo-martin-to-be-investigated-by-cal-regarding-yann-hufnagel-scandal
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Stevens has at worst a top-5 job in the NBA. I don't think any college job would interest him in the least, especially considering his reputation for not being enamored with the recruiting process.
Stevens told us something much different....already shared with you last time. He liked recruiting...directly from his mouth on video.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=57899.msg1093586#msg1093586
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Is this a joke?
There is a 0.0% chance Duke would consider Wojo.
LOL.
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Tennessee fans did not want Pearl out. He was very well liked but was fired by Tennessee for lying to the NCAA investigators. Fast forward Martin was his replacement and the fans never liked him because he wasn’t Pearl.
The hope from some fans was to get Martin fired so they could rehire Pearl after the dust settled. The situation was bad for Martin and he wanted out. Many thought he would land at MU but the vibe was he wasn’t as interested MU as he was interested in getting out of that situation.
When MU landed on Wojo, Martin pulled out and then later moved on to Cal. He realized that Cal wasn’t the place to be and left again. He would have left MU as well.
My typo, I meant Martin...you are absolutely correct...Pearl, despite Show Cause penalty had support by Tennessee fans. They didn’t care that he cheated, they loved him...story of Bruce Pearl basically. Funny, endearing, charming, well liked, but cannot follow the NCAA rules to save his life.
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LOL.
Okay. I thought it was a joke but sometimes you never know here on muscoop. I guess I needed to see teal? LOL!
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Okay. I thought it was a joke but sometimes you never know here on muscoop. I guess I needed to see teal? LOL!
They would “consider” a number of favorite sons, who they hire would unlikely be any of them...but Wojo, Brey, Dawkins, etc would all be “considered”.
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They would “consider” a number of favorite sons, who they hire would unlikely be any of them...but Wojo, Brey, Dawkins, etc would all be “considered”.
Umm, okay. I guess Duke may waste their time with 'courtesy interviews', but I think that is highly unlikely.
Putting Wojo in the 'top 5 candidates' for the Duke job (which whoajoe did) is a joke. I don't think it was a serious post. Are you saying you agree with his real or joking statement "I could see Duke seriously considering him"?
I don't think anyone in Wojo's family would expect him to be considered for Duke.
Pro-Jo's can't sign on to ridiculous ideas like this; it makes you look crazy.
FWIW, lots of good and very good coaches would never be considered for the Duke job. This is not an anti-Wojo post.
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Umm, okay. I guess Duke may waste their time with 'courtesy interviews', but I think that is highly unlikely.
Putting Wojo in the 'top 5 candidates' for the Duke job (which whoajoe did) is a joke. I don't think it was a serious post. Are saying you agree with his real or joking statement "I could see Duke seriously considering him"?
I don't think anyone in Wojo's family would expect him to be considered for Duke.
Pro-Jo's can't sign on to ridiculous ideas like this; it makes you look crazy.
FWIW, lots of good and very good coaches would never be considered for the Duke job. This is not an anti-Wojo post.
No joke.
I was just doing some research and found an online article listing potential replacements for Coach K. Wojo is listed number one. Doesn't mean much but at least it suggests that my take wasn't totally off base.
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Stevens has at worst a top-5 job in the NBA. I don't think any college job would interest him in the least, especially considering his reputation for not being enamored with the recruiting process.
I don’t think he’d take it, but that’s the guy Duke go all in on because he’s the only guy who could truly replace Coach K.
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No joke.
I was just doing some research and found an online article listing potential replacements for Coach K. Wojo is listed number one. Doesn't mean much but at least it suggests that my take wasn't totally off base.
All it means is that you're qualified to get a writing gig with Barstool sports
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Umm, okay. I guess Duke may waste their time with 'courtesy interviews', but I think that is highly unlikely.
Putting Wojo in the 'top 5 candidates' for the Duke job (which whoajoe did) is a joke. I don't think it was a serious post. Are you saying you agree with his real or joking statement "I could see Duke seriously considering him"?
I don't think anyone in Wojo's family would expect him to be considered for Duke.
Pro-Jo's can't sign on to ridiculous ideas like this; it makes you look crazy.
FWIW, lots of good and very good coaches would never be considered for the Duke job. This is not an anti-Wojo post.
I’m not suggesting it is an anti Wojo post, but I do think the 0% figure thrown out was wrong....especially if Coach K gets to have influence on the choice which I suspect he will. As a result, I believe he would be in the mix. And I also agree with you that many very good coaches would not be in the mix, but they also didn’t play or coach at Duke for 20 years which givens more than the 0% you articulated, in my opinion.
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All it means is that you're qualified to get a writing gig with Barstool sports
Or CBS Sports apparently....Wojo...first listed. It is comical to think he wouldn’t be considered at all...absolutely comical.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/evaluating-mike-krzyzewskis-future-at-duke-and-the-top-5-candidates-to-one-day-replace-coach-k/
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I don’t think he’d take it, but that’s the guy Duke go all in on because he’s the only guy who could truly replace Coach K.
Why couldn't Jay Wright "truly replace Coach K"?
Or Billy Donovan?
Or Dana Altman?
Or Mark Few?
Or Chris Beard?
I'm not saying a single one of them would even accept an interview offer, but there are plenty of coaches who would do great at Duke, guys who have faced and passed all kinds of tests over the years.
In the NBA, you aren't babysitting teenagers and you aren't dealing with parents. You have to do very little recruiting (perhaps a free agent or two every couple years, and even then money talks loudest). You aren't part of a hypocritical system that pretends to be amateur. You don't have to pretend you care as much (or more) about education or about "running a clean program" than about winning -- when you know damn well that winning is the only thing that really matters in the end. You are paid great. You have highly trained personnel people to help evaluate and bring in talent. So many reasons for Brad Stevens or any other NBA coach to prefer the NBA.
There obviously are many positives about coaching in college, too. But there's a reason why successful NBA coaches don't go back to college while successful college coaches often go to the NBA.
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Or CBS Sports apparently....Wojo...first listed. It is comical to think he wouldn’t be considered at all...absolutely comical.
UNC fans would be laughing their heads off. They hired Roy Williams from Kansas and Duke would have hired Wojo.
But I do stand corrected, based on the CBS article, if they would only consider Dukies for the position, I guess Wojo is the best of the lot. So, I'll say 1% chance.
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That doesn’t mean Wojo was candidate one when abuzz left...he wasn’t. But after the dust settled and it became go time, he was the guy. Martin was able to save face. Stop with the BS
Do you know who MU had pegged as the top candidate?
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Why couldn't Jay Wright "truly replace Coach K"?
Or Billy Donovan?
Or Dana Altman?
Or Mark Few?
Or Chris Beard?
I'm not saying a single one of them would even accept an interview offer, but there are plenty of coaches who would do great at Duke, guys who have faced and passed all kinds of tests over the years.
In the NBA, you aren't babysitting teenagers and you aren't dealing with parents. You have to do very little recruiting (perhaps a free agent or two every couple years, and even then money talks loudest). You aren't part of a hypocritical system that pretends to be amateur. You don't have to pretend you care as much (or more) about education or about "running a clean program" than about winning -- when you know damn well that winning is the only thing that really matters in the end. You are paid great. You have highly trained personnel people to help evaluate and bring in talent. So many reasons for Brad Stevens or any other NBA coach to prefer the NBA.
There obviously are many positives about coaching in college, too. But there's a reason why successful NBA coaches don't go back to college while successful college coaches often go to the NBA.
Wasn't Dana Altman involved in the show scandle? Also he's a west coast guy can't imagine him heading to the south East.
Beard I could see if he got a couple more runs under him. Donovan is certainly an interesting candidate especially as I've read a few articles about his seat getting hot in the pros
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Why couldn't Jay Wright "truly replace Coach K"?
Or Billy Donovan?
Or Dana Altman?
Or Mark Few?
Or Chris Beard?
I'm not saying a single one of them would even accept an interview offer, but there are plenty of coaches who would do great at Duke, guys who have faced and passed all kinds of tests over the years.
In the NBA, you aren't babysitting teenagers and you aren't dealing with parents. You have to do very little recruiting (perhaps a free agent or two every couple years, and even then money talks loudest). You aren't part of a hypocritical system that pretends to be amateur. You don't have to pretend you care as much (or more) about education or about "running a clean program" than about winning -- when you know damn well that winning is the only thing that really matters in the end. You are paid great. You have highly trained personnel people to help evaluate and bring in talent. So many reasons for Brad Stevens or any other NBA coach to prefer the NBA.
There obviously are many positives about coaching in college, too. But there's a reason why successful NBA coaches don't go back to college while successful college coaches often go to the NBA.
just my opinion, but I think in the eyes of Duke fans those guys wouldn't be worthy of the job but Stevens and his success at both the college and NBA level would be.
I personally don't think Stevens would leave the NBA. When he's done with the Celtics he'll be highly coveted anywhere else. He has been an exception to the rule of college coaches not being able to cut it at the NBA level (look at Beilein this year) so I think he stays in the league. But, if the elite program in American calls and maybe things are going a little sideways with Boston (it happens with everyone on the team makes more than the coach and egos get involved) he listens. Besides, with a program like Duke you don't really have to recruit and has amenities on par with NBA teams (charters, private jet for recruiting, unlimited budget, etc.)
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I wonder who ends up replacing Boeheim at Syracuse. That, too, will be an interesting coaching transition for sure. As will Roy at UNC.
The ACC, in general, is on a collision course with substantial coaching turnover in the next couple of seasons. Coach K, Williams, Boeheim, Larranaga and Hamilton are all in their 70's.
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I wonder who ends up replacing Boeheim at Syracuse. That, too, will be an interesting coaching transition for sure. As will Roy at UNC.
The ACC, in general, is on a collision course with substantial coaching turnover in the next couple of seasons. Coach K, Williams, Boeheim, Larranaga and Hamilton are all in their 70's.
my guess is Hopkins, long-time assistant currently at Washington. He still runs the 2-3 zone out there.
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I wonder who ends up replacing Boeheim at Syracuse. That, too, will be an interesting coaching transition for sure. As will Roy at UNC.
The ACC, in general, is on a collision course with substantial coaching turnover in the next couple of seasons. Coach K, Williams, Boeheim, Larranaga and Hamilton are all in their 70's.
Buzz’s next job. At some point, he might want to take over an elite job versus a train wreck.
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just my opinion, but I think in the eyes of Duke fans those guys wouldn't be worthy of the job but Stevens and his success at both the college and NBA level would be.
I personally don't think Stevens would leave the NBA. When he's done with the Celtics he'll be highly coveted anywhere else. He has been an exception to the rule of college coaches not being able to cut it at the NBA level (look at Beilein this year) so I think he stays in the league. But, if the elite program in American calls and maybe things are going a little sideways with Boston (it happens with everyone on the team makes more than the coach and egos get involved) he listens. Besides, with a program like Duke you don't really have to recruit and has amenities on par with NBA teams (charters, private jet for recruiting, unlimited budget, etc.)
I am not at all saying that Brad Stevens would ignore overtures from Duke. I don't know, neither do you, neither does anybody else. Who knows? He might go to bed every night dreaming of leaving the NBA to take over Duke when K leaves.
I also agree that a person might want to leave any coaching job after X number of years. Phil Jackson often has talked about change being natural and good in that profession.
All I am saying is that there are plenty of other choices.
You really think that if Duke landed Jay Freakin' Wright, he "wouldn't be worthy of the job" in the eyes of Dookie fans? Or Mark Few? Really?
I doubt either would even be interested ... but either makes every bit as much sense as Stevens does, and either would do just as good a job.
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I am not at all saying that Brad Stevens would ignore overtures from Duke. I don't know, neither do you, neither does anybody else. Who knows? He might go to bed every night dreaming of leaving the NBA to take over Duke when K leaves.
I also agree that a person might want to leave any coaching job after X number of years. Phil Jackson often has talked about change being natural and good in that profession.
All I am saying is that there are plenty of other choices.
You really think that if Duke landed Jay Freakin' Wright, he "wouldn't be worthy of the job" in the eyes of Dookie fans? Or Mark Few? Really?
I doubt either would even be interested ... but either makes every bit as much sense as Stevens does, and either would do just as good a job.
Duke fans are on a different level with their arrogance.
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Duke fans are on a different level with their arrogance.
Interesting non-answer.
Neither of us will be able to say he was proven "right" or "wrong," but I respectfully disagree that the majority of Duke fans would be horrified if the school hired Wright or Few.
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Billy Donovan makes the most sense. Has already left his dream job. Still young enough where he could have a great 10-15 year career there. NBA chops + 4 Final Fours to his name.
Jay and Few are at their dream school. They've turned down everyone already. My fear if I'm Duke and I make them the Godfather offer, are they taking it bc of the money or the opportunity? Billy would be landing at the #1 college job, his motivations would appear more pure.
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Duke fans are on a different level with their arrogance.
This is why I don't think they would ever hire someone with Wojo's resume. Alumni or not.
Quite honestly, I don't blame Duke fans and the school for expecting to hire a coach with an elite resume. I'm no Duke fan but the program has given them valid reasons to be arrogant.
I'm sure MU and other Big East schools/fans are viewed as arrogant by A10, MVC, AAC, etc. fans.
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Do you know who MU had pegged as the top candidate?
Shaka was #1 and they tried about 3 times to land him but couldn't despite a full court press (including hiring Lovell and getting him out to VA to meet with Shaka). Once that died it was a couple of folks in the mix with Wojo emerging during the process as the clear #1. Combo of Wojo blowing the boards socks off and some very key endorsements from various well regarded basketball folks.
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This is why I don't think they would ever hire someone with Wojo's resume. Alumni or not.
Quite honestly, I don't blame Duke fans and the school for expecting to hire a coach with an elite resume. I'm no Duke fan but the program has given them valid reasons to be arrogant.
I'm sure MU and other Big East schools/fans are viewed as arrogant by A10, MVC, AAC, etc. fans.
I’m not even sure why people think Stevens would fit at Duke. How Stevens succeeded is pretty much the opposite of how K runs the program now.
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Buzz’s next job. At some point, he might want to take over an elite job versus a train wreck.
i always thought buzz is a texas kind of guy...waiting for the shaka axe to fall? makin texas great again?
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UNC fans would be laughing their heads off. They hired Roy Williams from Kansas and Duke would have hired Wojo.
But I do stand corrected, based on the CBS article, if they would only consider Dukies for the position, I guess Wojo is the best of the lot. So, I'll say 1% chance.
There are MANY factors that need to be weighed when deciding who to hire as your head coach. The coaching candidates history of wins and losses, tournament appearances, tournament success, recruiting success, how clean of a program they ran at their previous post, school affiliation, success as a player, relationship with the outgoing coach in the case of a retirement, etc.
Just like there are MANY factors that need to be weighed when deciding if a coach should be fired.
Considering all the factors in both cases, I don't see why some people think Wojo is undeserving of the former and deserving of the latter.
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i always thought buzz is a texas kind of guy...waiting for the shaka axe to fall? makin texas great again?
A&M is as big a job as Texas.
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Another humorous post. Wojie is not going anywhere.
:o ::) ;D ;) ;) ;)
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Considering all the factors in both cases, I don't see why some people think Wojo is undeserving of the former and deserving of the latter.
I have posted many times on MUScoop, that I supported the modest extension given to Wojo. I think it was deserving, in its terms, based upon his performance. MU did not go all in on him but showed support so he could recruit effectively and give him more time to prove himself. So I am not one who wants him fired. I'm more of a Wait-And-See-Jo.
Just because I think it is highly unlikely Duke would consider Wojo does not mean he is not or could not be a good fit for MU. If I put myself in Duke's shoes, a coach with Wojo's resume does not come close to being a qualified candidate for their program and the $8MM per year they pay their head coach.
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i always thought buzz is a texas kind of guy...waiting for the shaka axe to fall? makin texas great again?
A&M has certain aspects that UT does not.
It is not surprising Buzz and Jimbo Fisher have ended up there. They have very much in common.
I suspect that neither of them go on to bigger and better jobs.
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I have posted many times on MUScoop, that I supported the modest extension given to Wojo. I think it was deserving, in its terms, based upon his performance. MU did not go all in on him but showed support so he could recruit effectively and give him more time to prove himself. So I am not one who wants him fired. I'm more of a Wait-And-See-Jo.
Just because I think it is highly unlikely Duke would consider Wojo does not mean he is not or could not be a good fit for MU. If I put myself in Duke's shoes, a coach with Wojo's resume does not come close to being a qualified candidate for their program and the $8MM per year they pay their head coach.
Fair enough. Though I doubt they would have to pay Wojo $8M
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UNC fans would be laughing their heads off. They hired Roy Williams from Kansas and Duke would have hired Wojo.
But I do stand corrected, based on the CBS article, if they would only consider Dukies for the position, I guess Wojo is the best of the lot. So, I'll say 1% chance.
Look, I agree with you that he isn't the top few choices...but he would be considered and the major wildcard is the guy currently holding the position. How much input does he get.
UNC, by the way, did hire Roy Williams......AFTER they hired Bill Guthridge and Matt Doherty. Guthridge went to two Final Fours in three years, also lost in the first round. Doherty crashed and burned. It is often hard for schools to get away from the lineage.
Marquette.......Rick Majerus and Hank Raymonds
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Putting Wojo in the 'top 5 candidates' for the Duke job (which whoajoe did) is a joke.
Right now Wojo would get the same consideration for the Duke job that Marianne Williamson got for the Democratic nomination.
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Billy Donovan makes the most sense. Has already left his dream job. Still young enough where he could have a great 10-15 year career there. NBA chops + 4 Final Fours to his name.
Jay and Few are at their dream school. They've turned down everyone already. My fear if I'm Duke and I make them the Godfather offer, are they taking it bc of the money or the opportunity? Billy would be landing at the #1 college job, his motivations would appear more pure.
All I said is that I doubt Dookie fans would be automatically outraged if the school selected a great coach not named Brad Stevens, and I included Wright, Few and Donovan as examples.
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Right now Wojo would get the same consideration for the Duke job that Marianne Williamson got for the Democratic nomination.
You should check out coach Ks resume before getting the Duke job. Wojos about as tight and squeaky clean as coach K and contrary to what some scoopers think, as the CBS online article demonstrates, his status as a candidate is quite high. He took over a reeling program and acheived steady improvement on the court and solid recruiting off it. He also has Markus Howard as a feather in his cap.
Another NCAA appearance this year and a deep run next year could time perfectly with Coach K retiring.
Wojo to Duke is no joke.
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You should check out coach Ks resume before getting the Duke job. Wojos about as tight and squeaky clean as coach K and contrary to what some scoopers think, as the CBS online article demonstrates, his status as a candidate is quite high. He took over a reeling program and acheived steady improvement on the court and solid recruiting off it. He also has Markus Howard as a feather in his cap.
Another NCAA appearance this year and a deep run next year could time perfectly with Coach K retiring.
Wojo to Duke is no joke.
Wojo took over an MU program that had made the tournament 8 out of the last 9 years, which included three straight Sweet 16s from 2011-13. But yeah, the program was definitely “reeling” when he took over.
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Wojo took over an MU program that had made the tournament 8 out of the last 9 years, which included three straight Sweet 16s from 2011-13. But yeah, the program was definitely “reeling” when he took over.
Yes, reeling.........17-15 the previous year, a messy divorce, Buzz poaching his best recruits, a thin roster, a shake up in leadership, the whole Shaka thing, a confusing( from an outsiders view at least ) coaching search.
Not ideal
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Wojo took over an MU program that had made the tournament 8 out of the last 9 years, which included three straight Sweet 16s from 2011-13. But yeah, the program was definitely “reeling” when he took over.
You made a true statement.
What is also true is he took over a program that didn’t even make the NIT the previous year and the coach crapped all over the conference, took a crappier job to get out.
Both are true statements.
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You made a true statement.
What is also true is he took over a program that didn’t even make the NIT the previous year and the coach crapped all over the conference, took a crappier job to get out.
Both are true statements.
You’re mistaking team with program. The team Wojo took over was below average. The program was well above average, possibly great. Huge budget, state of the art facilities, NBA arena for home games, not facing any NCAA sanctions. Crean took over a reeling program when he went to Indiana. Ditto for Buzz at VT. MU, as a program, was not reeling when Wojo took over.
Also, who cares that Buzz bad-mouthed the conference when he left? What impact has that had on anything? Zero. Who even remembers that? You. You’re the only one who ever brings it up. I don’t recall what he said, but it was a one-off interview that happened six years ago. A complete non-factor in the grand scheme of college basketball. But you like to keep bringing it up as another reason to bash Buzz, even though it’s entirely inconsequential.
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Wojo took over an MU program that had made the tournament 8 out of the last 9 years, which included three straight Sweet 16s from 2011-13. But yeah, the program was definitely “reeling” when he took over.
The program wasn’t the same. The new Big East was forming and the consensus at the time was the New Big East was going to be a mid major. A good number of coaches also jumped ship including Stevens, Buzz, Cronin, and Ollie. The league would go on to lose JT3, Mack (2018), Lavin leaving Cooley and Willard as the most senior coaches in the Big East.
UConn, Cincinnati, WVU, ND, Pitt, Louisville, and Cuse all left the league.
The team lost its three best players from the year before Wilson, Davonte and Mayo and that team was a losing team. MU was starting with a worse team.
The best player going into the season had one foot out the door. Leaving 3 of Buzz’s last full class with Johnson, Wilson and Dawson. Dawson left and showed zero high major skills. Leaving just two. One was hampered by injuries.
MU lost three of their incoming recruits two of which were good Hill and Shayok.
MU brought in a one year serviceable grad transfer to make it remotely competitive. That was the worse team under Wojo by far. If Buzz has stayed I would have expected MU to be better because Hill and Shayok would have stayed but most likely his worse team as well. We would have likely still lost Burton, Dawson and lost ST Jr. we would not likely made the NCAA with that team.
Call it what you will but the program wasn’t the same.
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You’re mistaking team with program. The team Wojo took over was below average. The program was well above average, possibly great. Huge budget, state of the art facilities, NBA arena for home games, not facing any NCAA sanctions. Crean took over a reeling program when he went to Indiana. Ditto for Buzz at VT. MU, as a program, was not reeling when Wojo took over.
Also, who cares that Buzz bad-mouthed the conference when he left? What impact has that had on anything? Zero. Who even remembers that? You. You’re the only one who ever brings it up. I don’t recall what he said, but it was a one-off interview that happened six years ago. A complete non-factor in the grand scheme of college basketball. But you like to keep bringing it up as another reason to bash Buzz, even though it’s entirely inconsequential.
No impact? Disagree. People asking why a coach left to a lesser job, yeah that will matter to some. What did he know and led him to take over such a program? Turns out he didn’t know much as the Big East towers over the ACC and SEC at the moment, but he said it nonetheless.
I’m not confusing program with team at all. I said your statement was true, so was mine.
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Wasn't Dana Altman involved in the show scandle? Also he's a west coast guy can't imagine him heading to the south East.
FWIW, Altman is a Midwestern dude. Kansas State, Creighton, actually got his start at Marshall. Oregon was actually his first “real” gig west of the Rockies. That being said, I don’t think he’d be a contender for a Duke gig
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Wojo took over an MU program that had made the tournament 8 out of the last 9 years, which included three straight Sweet 16s from 2011-13. But yeah, the program was definitely “reeling” when he took over.
Don’t waste your time debating with Chico’s and his 5 accounts here. Exercise in insanity.
Wojo recognized the above as you posted, and that the inherited roster had 7, Top 100 recruits. Wonder why he finally chose to leave Duke? Because both he and K knew this was a really good program/job. End of story.
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The program wasn’t the same. The new Big East was forming and the consensus at the time was the New Big East was going to be a mid major. A good number of coaches also jumped ship including Stevens, Buzz, Cronin, and Ollie. The league would go on to lose JT3, Mack (2018), Lavin leaving Cooley and Willard as the most senior coaches in the Big East.
UConn, Cincinnati, WVU, ND, Pitt, Louisville, and Cuse all left the league.
The team lost its three best players from the year before Wilson, Davonte and Mayo and that team was a losing team. MU was starting with a worse team.
The best player going into the season had one foot out the door. Leaving 3 of Buzz’s last full class with Johnson, Wilson and Dawson. Dawson left and showed zero high major skills. Leaving just two. One was hampered by injuries.
MU lost three of their incoming recruits two of which were good Hill and Shayok.
MU brought in a one year serviceable grad transfer to make it remotely competitive. That was the worse team under Wojo by far. If Buzz has stayed I would have expected MU to be better because Hill and Shayok would have stayed but most likely his worse team as well. We would have likely still lost Burton, Dawson and lost ST Jr. we would not likely made the NCAA with that team.
Call it what you will but the program wasn’t the same.
I don't think league reformation hurt MU in the long run, but short term, maybe. Everything else was spot on.
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I’m not even sure why people think Stevens would fit at Duke. How Stevens succeeded is pretty much the opposite of how K runs the program now.
He looks very clean cut, he's white, and he wins. I really think it's just that he has the look and resume most associate with Duke, regardless of recruiting or coaching methods.
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Don’t waste your time debating with Chico’s and his 5 accounts here. Exercise in insanity.
Wojo recognized the above as you posted, and that the inherited roster had 7, Top 100 recruits. Wonder why he finally chose to leave Duke? Because both he and K knew this was a really good program/job. End of story.
Only one, but good try Ners. The mods can prove this in one second if they wished.
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Never forget that MU ran Buzz off when he started losing (technically going .500 in conf) not when he appeared on front page of Chicago Tribune or other headlines.
But yes that 2014 season was an incredible low.
Until 2015
And 2016
And really 2017
And definitely 2018
And actually 2019, too
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Never forget that MU ran Buzz off when he started losing (technically going .500 in conf) not when he appeared on front page of Chicago Tribune or other headlines.
But yes that 2014 season was an incredible low.
Until 2015
And 2016
And really 2017
And definitely 2018
And actually 2019, too
Buzz ran himself off. I loved the Buzz era but that dude was toxic and his last two years he was looking for every way out and it was reflected in his recruiting.
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Buzz ran himself off. I loved the Buzz era but that dude was toxic and his last two years he was looking for every way out and it was reflected in his recruiting.
Yeah, you’re right. I was really worried about what Deonte, Duane & JJJ as juniors + freshman Diamond Stone was gonna look like. Plus sophomores Ahmed Hill & Shayok. All that winning in March ( and April) would have been annoying. You’re right, he had zero plan.
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Buzz ran himself off. I loved the Buzz era but that dude was toxic and his last two years he was looking for every way out and it was reflected in his recruiting.
I thought his recruiting was fine. The class of Shayok, Hill and Cohen was considered a pretty good one if I recall.
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Sew Chris Farley could have bin a suitable choice two, hey?
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Never forget that MU ran Buzz off when he started losing (technically going .500 in conf) not when he appeared on front page of Chicago Tribune or other headlines.
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/RfkCgYoI29e9K4AKim/giphy.gif?cid=4d1e4f2940edb15f1dac869491863b4aef7c5368f2327423&rid=giphy.gif)
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Buzz ran himself off. I loved the Buzz era but that dude was toxic and his last two years he was looking for every way out and it was reflected in his recruiting.
Ah yes...fond memories of the phony downhome lonesome Cowboy.
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The Lens
Spot on with your posts. I would have loved seeing that group play at MU under Buzz as well. Also, agree on a half decade plus of disappointing seasons and not a lot of promise for the short term. Wojo has recruited a couple of game changers and still no March success. That is biggest reason why I am not overly optimistic about the incoming recruiting class. On paper it is a very nice class, but not a game changer.
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I thought his recruiting was fine. The class of Shayok, Hill and Cohen was considered a pretty good one if I recall.
Don't forget his success w JUCOs and transfers -- always an option for a Buzz recruiting class.
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Pretty sure JJJ was going to leave had buzz stayed, and there's no proof we were gonna get stone. Plus Taylorand others were also going to leave. Also Cohen never panned out.
That dream team everybody wants is just a fantasy no different than saying imagine if the Hausers were here this year or if Henry was on last years team.
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Never forget that MU ran Buzz off when he started losing (technically going .500 in conf) not when he appeared on front page of Chicago Tribune or other headlines.
But yes that 2014 season was an incredible low.
Until 2015
And 2016
And really 2017
And definitely 2018
And actually 2019, too
So your contention is that the NCAA tournament teams of 2017 and 2019 were more "incredible lows" than Buzz's 2014 team? OK then.
I say this as a Buzz fan who was very disappointed when he left.
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So your contention is that the NCAA tournament teams of 2017 and 2019 were more "incredible lows" than Buzz's 2014 team? OK then.
I say this as a Buzz fan who was very disappointed when he left.
When making the NCAAs is considered the peak, I do think it’s disappointing.
We’ve gone from 3 straight S16s to hoping to make the dance and little optimism to make noise. The new normal is a low to me.
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He looks very clean cut, he's white, and he wins. I really think it's just that he has the look and resume most associate with Duke, regardless of recruiting or coaching methods.
What does race have to do with it?
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What does race have to do with it?
"I’ll stand up and be the first to admit being an epic hypocrite on this over the years. 100%. OWNING IT! The worst at times. It really should stop. Most of all, can we please stop with the racism charges and come together?" --Jams
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Pretty sure JJJ was going to leave had buzz stayed, and there's no proof we were gonna get stone. Plus Taylorand others were also going to leave. Also Cohen never panned out.
That dream team everybody wants is just a fantasy no different than saying imagine if the Hausers were here this year or if Henry was on last years team.
We were not getting Stone. Cohen was a midmajor just like Taylor. That was one of the most over hyped recruiting team in MU history.
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We were not getting Stone. Cohen was a midmajor just like Taylor. That was one of the most over hyped recruiting team in MU history.
No argument here. Ners' obsession with the HS rankings is ridiculous.
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No argument here. Ners' obsession with the HS rankings is ridiculous.
And yet those of you in the Pro-Jo camp are salivating over next year's class, and citing that as a primary reason to keep Wojo. You realize next year's class at present is rated lower than Buzz's class with JJJ, Deonte, Duane, Dawson..and Luke Fischer was a Top 50 kid not factored into that class rating. (You know, that "empty cupboard.")
Sadly, all of those kids played under a first-year coach who really struggled. Even talented players can't overcome poor coaching.
Call me crazy but I'd rather continue to get Top 10 rated classes filled with Top 100/50 recruits.
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Yeah, you’re right. I was really worried about what Deonte, Duane & JJJ as juniors + freshman Diamond Stone was gonna look like. Plus sophomores Ahmed Hill & Shayok. All that winning in March ( and April) would have been annoying. You’re right, he had zero plan.
I’d Buzz stayed JJJ was gowne. Diamond Stone was NEVER going to come to MU and that was MUs choice (True story, Stones people reached out to Wojo to see if MU was still interested and MU said no)
I have no doubt that Buzz could have pulled something together but we’ll never know because he ran away
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And yet those of you in the Pro-Jo camp are salivating over next year's class, and citing that as a primary reason to keep Wojo. You realize next year's class at present is rated lower than Buzz's class with JJJ, Deonte, Duane, Dawson..and Luke Fischer was a Top 50 kid not factored into that class rating. (You know, that "empty cupboard.")
Sadly, all of those kids played under a first-year coach who really struggled. Even talented players can't overcome poor coaching.
Call me crazy but I'd rather continue to get Top 10 rated classes filled with Top 100/50 recruits.
First, that class was torn apart when Jameel never played, Duane got injured. Then torn apart further when Burton transferred as did Dawson and Luke was riddled with shoulder injuries, not to mention was a traditional center at a time spreading the floor was getting traction (see our current issue).
I never hear you going on about Buzz's lack of ability to develop Erik Williams, letting Maymon leave, Cadougan being average, Jamail Jones not developing then leaving, Taylor not developing, Anderson not developing, that highly touted class not winning Buzz's last year. All top 100s you'd have an excuse for. But when it's wojos top 100s that he didn't even bring in you throw the axe.
That being said I do agree with what you say regarding it's better to bring in more than not because the more there are the more likely you are to find a Vander, Jamil, Henry, Sam and Markus. (Brendan tbd).
Also I'm not "Pro-jo" I'm just rooting for MU whether thats Wojo or the next guy.
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I’d Buzz stayed JJJ was gowne. Diamond Stone was NEVER going to come to MU and that was MUs choice (True story, Stones people reached out to Wojo to see if MU was still interested and MU said no)
I have no doubt that Buzz could have pulled something together but we’ll never know because he ran away
Did MU say no or did Mr. & Mrs. Ellenson?
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And yet those of you in the Pro-Jo camp are salivating over next year's class, and citing that as a primary reason to keep Wojo. You realize next year's class at present is rated lower than Buzz's class with JJJ, Deonte, Duane, Dawson..and Luke Fischer was a Top 50 kid not factored into that class rating. (You know, that "empty cupboard.")
Sadly, all of those kids played under a first-year coach who really struggled. Even talented players can't overcome poor coaching.
Call me crazy but I'd rather continue to get Top 10 rated classes filled with Top 100/50 recruits.
They can't be over ranked until they fail.
Unfortunately, due to injuries, personal issues, departure, and in JJJs case, slow development, that class did end up being overrated.
The fact that all the guys signed for next year are bigs with offensive skills is reason for optimism. It would be risky to change coaches at this point and that's not even accounting for possibly signing Mane.
Are you suggesting that because a highly ranked recruiting class failed in the past, this highly ranked recruiting class with a yet to be determined level of success, shouldn't be considered when evaluating Wojos total resume?
Really?
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What does race have to do with it?
We all know what you want Cheeks. You’re not fooling anyone.
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Yeah, you’re right. I was really worried about what Deonte, Duane & JJJ as juniors + freshman Diamond Stone was gonna look like. Plus sophomores Ahmed Hill & Shayok. All that winning in March ( and April) would have been annoying. You’re right, he had zero plan.
Diamond Stone was never going to come to Marquette, no matter who the coach was. No chance.
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Diamond Stone was never going to come to Marquette, no matter who the coach was. No chance.
Yup, but memories here are clouded in some parallel utopian universe of wishing vs reality.
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We all know what you want Cheeks. You’re not fooling anyone.
Yes, I want to know why he thought that was necessary. It wasn’t...you can defend it all you want, you are not fooling anyone. Race is a constant thing with some of you guys.
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What does race have to do with it?
When it comes to Duke? A ton. I'm talking about the perception of why Stevens is a fit, and if you think him being a clean cut, boyish looking white guy isn't a big part, maybe the biggest part of that, you're delusional. People still view Duke through the 1990s lens when Laettner & Hurley were the faces of the program. It's not true, but the perception has never changed.
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Yes, I want to know why he thought that was necessary. It wasn’t...you can defend it all you want, you are not fooling anyone. Race is a constant thing with some of you guys.
Better than being ignorant about it.
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When it comes to Duke? A ton. I'm talking about the perception of why Stevens is a fit, and if you think him being a clean cut, boyish looking white guy isn't a big part, maybe the biggest part of that, you're delusional. People still view Duke through the 1990s lens when Laettner & Hurley were the faces of the program. It's not true, but the perception has never changed.
Agreed, racism sucks but it's reality. As is sexism, ageism, and discrimination based on religious and sexual preference.
It still affects decision making now, and I imagine it will in the future. Acknowledging that fact is the best way to continue addressing these issues.
Saying problem solved!, is actually counterproductive.
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When it comes to Duke? A ton. I'm talking about the perception of why Stevens is a fit, and if you think him being a clean cut, boyish looking white guy isn't a big part, maybe the biggest part of that, you're delusional. People still view Duke through the 1990s lens when Laettner & Hurley were the faces of the program. It's not true, but the perception has never changed.
To say nothing of the fact that Brad Stevens is one of the great, young minds in basketball today, black or white.
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To say nothing of the fact that Brad Stevens is one of the great, young minds in basketball today, black or white.
Which is true. But why Duke? He’s already coaching in the NBA, has no connection to the school, and didn’t win at Butler the way K wins now.
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Which is true. But why Duke? He’s already coaching in the NBA, has no connection to the school, and didn’t win at Butler the way K wins now.
Correct, there are zero rational thinking people who would honestly think Brad Stevens would take a step back from the Celtics to coach any collegiate program again.
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To say nothing of the fact that Brad Stevens is one of the great, young minds in basketball today, black or white.
He is. But when people talk about Kentucky, UCLA, Kansas, and other blue bloods, Stevens' name never comes up. It's not a coincidence that he is constantly tied with the Duke job despite his only connection to Duke being a Gordon Hayward missed prayer.
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He is. But when people talk about Kentucky, UCLA, Kansas, and other blue bloods, Stevens' name never comes up. It's not a coincidence that he is constantly tied with the Duke job despite his only connection to Duke being a Gordon Hayward missed prayer.
He did turn UCLA down in 2013, but yeah.
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I think the thought of him coaching Duke more likely follows the logic that Duke is the only iconic program Stevens would even consider leaving Boston for. I firmly believe race has nothing to do with this.
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I think the thought of him coaching Duke more likely follows the logic that Duke is the only iconic program Stevens would even consider leaving Boston for. I firmly believe race has nothing to do with this.
I think Brew has it right that it harkens back to Duke of 20 years ago. And race is part of that.
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To say nothing of the fact that Brad Stevens is one of the great, young minds in basketball today, black or white.
Exactly. His acumen at basketball coaching is why Duke would hire him, his race has nothing to do with it. Ridiculous it was even brought up and double-downed. Absolutely ridiculous. Duke wants to win college basketball games, they will try to hire the best coach regardless of any nonsense being thrown around here about race, creed, ethnicity or anything else.
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Exactly. His acumen at basketball coaching is why Duke would hire him, his race has nothing to do with it. Ridiculous it was even brought up and double-downed. Absolutely ridiculous. Duke wants to win college basketball games, they will try to hire the best coach regardless of any nonsense being thrown around here about race, creed, ethnicity or anything else.
Learn to read bud. No one said that Duke would hire him because he is white.
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Learn to read bud. No one said that Duke would hire him because he is white.
I believe he was saying that Stevens would appeal to the sensibilities of some members of the Duke faithful. And he's probably right.
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I think the thought of him coaching Duke more likely follows the logic that Duke is the only iconic program Stevens would even consider leaving Boston for. I firmly believe race has nothing to do with this.
Amen Doc. Exactly. Well said. And if he said no, well then it gets interesting, especially if Coach K has a strong hand in the selection.
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I think Brew has it right that it harkens back to Duke of 20 years ago. And race is part of that.
Oh 20 years ago....so that's the deal....we're bringing stuff up from 20 years ago to make some kind of SJW point. Sigh. As stated, some people just cannot help themselves and have to interject it wherever they can. Guilt or something.
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Oh 20 years ago....so that's the deal....we're bringing stuff up from 20 years ago to make some kind of SJW point. Sigh. As stated, some people just cannot help themselves and have to interject it wherever they can. Guilt or something.
What? Seriously can’t you comprehend English?
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I believe he was saying that Stevens would appeal to the sensibilities of some members of the Duke faithful. And he's probably right.
Not even that. Just that these rumors persist in some people’s minds because of that.
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Did MU say no or did Mr. & Mrs. Ellenson?
Both
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I think Brew has it right that it harkens back to Duke of 20 years ago. And race is part of that.
Also, once Duke started recruiting more one and done guys than UK it wasn’t “ruining college basketball” anymore.
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Oh 20 years ago....so that's the deal....we're bringing stuff up from 20 years ago to make some kind of SJW point. Sigh. As stated, some people just cannot help themselves and have to interject it wherever they can. Guilt or something.
Yes, because it's much better to ignore the painfully obvious reality that race is still impacting our society. Let me guess, you're proud to be colorblind too, right?
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Yes, because it's much better to ignore the painfully obvious reality that race is still impacting our society. Let me guess, you're proud to be colorblind too, right?
He has a lot of black friends!
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He has a lot of black friends!
I have many friends of many races, but why does it matter? Is it a contest?
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/S6qyZknhxAYU9Sv5Z4/giphy.gif?cid=4d1e4f29e632ac31d3b0aca0b5d3a63dc521f5bccd191d92&rid=giphy.gif)
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Yes, because it's much better to ignore the painfully obvious reality that race is still impacting our society. Let me guess, you're proud to be colorblind too, right?
So we should inject this into everything on this board now or on,y when you feel a guilt trip?
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So we should inject this into everything on this board now or on,y when you feel a guilt trip?
I don't feel a guilt trip, I'm just cognizant of the world we live in.
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Eye got da cream cheese. Any y'all got da bagels and lox, hey?
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The only way for the world to be right for some folks here is if Duke hires a female African American head coach to replace Coach K...the message of love and inclusion it would send to the world.
The only thing more just would be for them to be even more noble themselves, for example resign from the fire dept to give more opportunities to others for Milwaukee’s past hiring sins that continue to this day.
#WokeDuke
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The only way for the world to be right for some folks here is if Duke hires a female African American head coach to replace Coach K...the message of love and inclusion it would send to the world.
No one said that. Again, you are having trouble reading in this topic. And when you make absurd statements like this, you clearly have nothing else better to do than draw attention to yourself. Per usual.
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No one said that. Again, you are having trouble reading in this topic. And when you make absurd statements like this, you clearly have nothing else better to do than draw attention to yourself. Per usual.
It's amazing how defensive some people get. Easier to focus outward than inward, I suppose.
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It's amazing how defensive some people get. Easier to focus outward than inward, I suppose.
What was said (by you) didn't have to be said and wasn't remotely part of the conversation, but some people just feel like they have to inject that crap whenever possible. Is it guilt...what is it? I don't want to suppose, asking for a friend.
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The only way for the world to be right for some folks here is if Duke hires a female African American head coach to replace Coach K...the message of love and inclusion it would send to the world.
The only thing more just would be for them to be even more noble themselves, for example resign from the fire dept to give more opportunities to others for Milwaukee’s past hiring sins that continue to this day.
#WokeDuke
Dude, I think you're spreading yourself a little too thin on too many threads and too many topics. I'm not sure what your point is and I'm not sure you do either. Criticizing someone for injecting race into a conversation then accusing them of being SJWs who won't be happy until a black woman is named the Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan??
WTAF
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Dude, I think you're spreading yourself a little too thin on too many threads and too many topics. I'm not sure what your point is and I'm not sure you do either. Criticizing someone for injecting race into a conversation then accusing them of being SJWs who won't be happy until a black woman is named the Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan??
WTAF
The point was simple, same guys driven by whatever inner conflict they have, inject this stuff intermittently when they can. It’s no different than politics...somewhere they think they are scoring SJW points or showing how woke they are. Then when they are called on it they go into their same mode each time. There was ZERO need to go down that path, but considering the poster whom went there and the track record of doing it before....well it was not surprising.
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Imagine what could be accomplished if certain people put as much effort into fighting racism as they do into fighting any acknowledgement that racism remains a daily factor in lives of many American.
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What was said (by you) didn't have to be said and wasn't remotely part of the conversation, but some people just feel like they have to inject that crap whenever possible. Is it guilt...what is it? I don't want to suppose, asking for a friend.
Let it go. It was not needed by him, but you adding to it is not needed either.
Fanning the flames comes to mind.
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Imagine what could be accomplished if certain people put as much effort into fighting racism as they do into fighting any acknowledgement that racism remains a daily factor in lives of many American.
Yep. Agree.
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Imagine what could be accomplished if certain people put as much effort into fighting racism as they do into fighting any acknowledgement that racism remains a daily factor in lives of many American.
Imagine how much additional progress would be made if real racism was fought and not have non-racist events labeled as such which only turns people off and prevents progress because people throw their hands up in despair. Imagine if we focused on the REAL stuff....imagine.
Imagine actually punishing the people (J.S.) that perpetuate the fake stuff and not automatically believing everything he said...imagine the progress that would make so we can concentrate on where it ACTUALLY happens. Imagine.
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Imagine how much additional progress would be made if real racism was fought and not have non-racist events labeled as such which only turns people off and prevents progress because people throw their hands up in despair. Imagine if we focused on the REAL stuff....imagine.
Imagine actually punishing the people (J.S.) that perpetuate the fake stuff and not automatically believing everything he said...imagine the progress that would make so we can concentrate on where it ACTUALLY happens. Imagine.
Chicos nails it, until the world is perfect, why try and make it better?
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We fixed the glitch, he won't be getting a pay check anymore. The problem will sort of fix itself
Chicos, probably.
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Chicos nails it, until the world is perfect, why try and make it better?
I’m all about making it better...the stuff legitimately needing to be made better.
This situation does not fall into that category....not by any stretch.
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Imagine how much additional progress would be made if real racism was fought and not have non-racist events labeled as such which only turns people off and prevents progress because people throw their hands up in despair. Imagine if we focused on the REAL stuff....imagine.
Imagine actually punishing the people (J.S.) that perpetuate the fake stuff and not automatically believing everything he said...imagine the progress that would make so we can concentrate on where it ACTUALLY happens. Imagine.
Thank goodness you're around to tell everyone what's "real" racism and what isn't. I mean, who better to decide that than a well-off, middle-aged white dude from the suburbs.
And clearly the feelings of white people are what matter most here. The despair they must feel.
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Imagine how much additional progress would be made if real racism was fought and not have non-racist events labeled as such which only turns people off and prevents progress because people throw their hands up in despair. Imagine if we focused on the REAL stuff....imagine.
Imagine actually punishing the people (J.S.) that perpetuate the fake stuff and not automatically believing everything he said...imagine the progress that would make so we can concentrate on where it ACTUALLY happens. Imagine.
If you wonder why people refer to you in terms you consider derogatory, this is why. It's because of what you say and post. It's not them, it's you.
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Imagine how much additional progress would be made if real racism was fought and not have non-racist events labeled as such which only turns people off and prevents progress because people throw their hands up in despair. Imagine if we focused on the REAL stuff....imagine.
Imagine actually punishing the people (J.S.) that perpetuate the fake stuff and not automatically believing everything he said...imagine the progress that would make so we can concentrate on where it ACTUALLY happens. Imagine.
Lol you’re crazy
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If you wonder why people refer to you in terms you consider derogatory, this is why. It's because of what you say and post. It's not them, it's you.
You mean pointing out fake hustling like JS? Of course of course...never your fault, someone else...someone made me say stupid stuff. Classic defense. Good Lord
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You mean pointing out fake hustling like JS? Of course of course...never your fault, someone else...someone made me say stupid stuff. Classic defense. Good Lord
Oh no, no one made you say anything. And basically this is the "I don't have to take ownership for my words" defense, which is beyond childish. Seriously, stop digging.
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13% of the force vs 40% of the population of MKE. A lot of work to do Brew, I hope you can make a real difference where it matters as that seems to be much larger problem than who the Duke University head basketball coach, but just my opinion.
Go ahead and get the last word in...fine by me.
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13% of the force vs 40% of the population of MKE. A lot of work to do Brew, I hope you can make a real difference where it matters as that seems to be much larger problem than who the Duke University head basketball coach, but just my opinion.
Go ahead and get the last word in...fine by me.
I have no idea what any of this means. More of the delusional crap you spin out that no one ever said.
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Hey guys, this is MUScoop. Let's keep the discussion to the purpose of this site .............................Middle East peace.
Israel, RAH! RAH!
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Shaka down 43-17 late in first half against Huggy Bear.......
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shaka can(not)down by 40 with 9 minutes to go? gonna be a long walk home
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Woj will end up being on a list of potential Shaka replacements at UT I’d wager.
I’d also guess Beilien somehow works something out with the Cavs to let him end up taking the Texas job come mid April.
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Buzz to Texas
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Woj will end up being on a list of potential Shaka replacements at UT I’d wager.
I’d also guess Beilien somehow works something out with the Cavs to let him end up taking the Texas job come mid April.
Well as any Pro-Jo can tell you, it's just one game plus Shaka is trying to institute his culture and needs time.
If Texas can just be patient, it will pay off with huge success with Shaka.
Wojo may be a target someday for Texas but not this offseason. Texas would not settle for a coach with Wojo's record. Wojo would be a tough sell to most P6 fan bases and Texas fans have bigger ego's than most.
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Well as any Pro-Jo can tell you, it's just one game plus Shaka is trying to institute his culture and needs time.
If Texas can just be patient, it will pay off with huge success with Shaka.
Wojo may be a target someday for Texas but not this offseason. Texas would not settle for a coach with Wojo's record. Wojo would be a tough sell to most P6 fan bases and Texas fans have bigger ego's than most.
Compare Shaka’s trajectory to Wojo.....thanks. Took other coach’s players to NCAA tournament, only been there one time with his own. Has been above .500 in conference one time at Texas...first year with previous coach’s players.
But ok....
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Well as any Pro-Jo can tell you, it's just one game plus Shaka is trying to institute his culture and needs time.
If Texas can just be patient, it will pay off with huge success with Shaka.
Wojo may be a target someday for Texas but not this offseason. Texas would not settle for a coach with Wojo's record. Wojo would be a tough sell to most P6 fan bases and Texas fans have bigger ego's than most.
Wojo was targeted by a couple of P6 schools last season and at least one of the fan bases was ecstatic about it. Usually when a program is able to lure away a coach from another p6 school that is coming off back to back NCAA appearances (assuming the current projections stand), fans are pretty excited about it.
That being said, Texas may be the exception. But many of them would be disappointed even if they hired Coach K away from Duke.
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Compare Shaka’s trajectory to Wojo.....thanks. Took other coach’s players to NCAA tournament, only been there one time with his own. Has been above .500 in conference one time at Texas...first year with previous coach’s players.
But ok....
Well, Shaka has take his teams to the NCAA tourney 70% of the time. (Wojo 40%) His B12 conference winning % before this year is a massive 5% worse than Wojo's. And, yes he took a mid-major to a Final Four.
By anyone's assessment, Shaka is a more accomplished coach than Wojo at this point. So why would you not think Texas should be more patient?
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Well, Shaka has take his teams to the NCAA tourney 70% of the time. (Wojo 40%) His B12 conference winning % before this year is a massive 5% worse than Wojo's. And, yes he took a mid-major to a Final Four.
By anyone's assessment, Shaka is a more accomplished coach than Wojo at this point. So why would you not think Texas should be more patient?
Uhm, Smart has coached longer so you are comparing apples to oranges again. Both have had P6 jobs the same amount of time, he is at the flagship school of Texas, the second largest athletic budget in the nation, warm weather, huge population to pull from and what is his trajectory especially with HIS guys...again?
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Uhm, Smart has coached longer so you are comparing apples to oranges again. Both have had P6 jobs the same amount of time, he is at the flagship school of Texas, the second largest athletic budget in the nation, warm weather, huge population to pull from and what is his trajectory especially with HIS guys...again?
So, for the sake of argument, I'll accept that. But the fact is that Shake did get the Texas job and Wojo would not even be considered for Texas.
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Well, Shaka has take his teams to the NCAA tourney 70% of the time. (Wojo 40%) His B12 conference winning % before this year is a massive 5% worse than Wojo's. And, yes he took a mid-major to a Final Four.
By anyone's assessment, Shaka is a more accomplished coach than Wojo at this point. So why would you not think Texas should be more patient?
Shaka was considered THE guy to hire. We, and every other P6 school salivated over him. In his second year at Texas, he went 11-22. In his fourth year at Texas' flagship university, no NCAA. His team is still underachieving.
He was expected to be the shizzle. He has not delivered, fuhshizzle.
So stop it.
Though I do wonder if Marquette fans would be on him as much as a select group of Scoopers are on Wojo in the same time frame. So many here decided the day we didn't get Shaka and had to "settle" on Wojo that we were getting a bum, I'm guessing Shaka would have gotten a bit more benefit of the doubt from those folks. But maybe not.
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So, for the sake of argument, I'll accept that. But the fact is that Shake did get the Texas job and Wojo would not even be considered for Texas.
Billie Gillespie got the Kentucky job. I’m not sure what your point is other than you don’t like Wojo.
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I'm guessing Shaka would have gotten a bit more benefit of the doubt from those folks. But maybe not.
Absolutely, Shaka would have gotten more benefit of the doubt. He earned it. MU fans and admin would be ignorant not to give Shaka more benefit of the doubt than someone like Wojo.
Just so nobody gets their feeling hurt; it's possible Wojo may end up being a better coach than Shaka. I'm just pointing out actual resume's at the time.
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Well, Shaka has take his teams to the NCAA tourney 70% of the time. (Wojo 40%) His B12 conference winning % before this year is a massive 5% worse than Wojo's. And, yes he took a mid-major to a Final Four.
By anyone's assessment, Shaka is a more accomplished coach than Wojo at this point. So why would you not think Texas should be more patient?
I was extremely excited when #donedeal was announced but looking back it might be a blessing that Shaka didn’t come to Marquette.
Texas has a significantly larger budget and is a huge draw for Texas players. Under those conditions Shaka has struggled. His record his first year was 20-13 and lost in the first round.
His second year he went 4-14 in conference and 11-22.
Year 3 he went 19-15 and 8-10 in conference. When you look at the record you have to question how they made it in. There big wins were in conference against WV, 2xOklahoma and TCU. A big thank you had to be given to Oklahoma (Trae Young) for also having a losing record in conference because likely got them in. That was the year Oklahoma was the it thing, sucked in conference but still made the tournament. They lost 12 of their last 16 including the Big 12 tourney and the first round loss.
Texas won 4 of their last 10 games and lost in the first round. MU didn’t make the dance this year with a record of 19-13 and 9-9 in conference.
Fourth year he was 16-16 with an 8-10 conference record. He went on to win the NIT for a final record of 21-16.
Year 5 he is sitting at 12-6 with a 2-4 record in conference. When you look at his Nonconference he has played no one. Best teams he played was Purdue (win), Georgetown and Providence (both losses). Throw in the next best Texas A&M and you can see he played no one. He will likely get to 20 wins due to the crap in the nonconference.
His record at Texas isn’t good and add to this Texas doesn’t even have a Top 150 recruiting class. Currently has zero commits.
Pair the fact they have had mediocre results with the following recruiting classes 18, 6, 6, 8, 17 national and you can see why Texas is starting to wonder.
Do I think Texas should fire him? No, I think the NIT championship bought him an extra few years and his recruiting is good.
I would say over the last 5 years Wojo has done better and has a better trend.
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Billie Gillespie got the Kentucky job. I’m not sure what your point is other than you don’t like Wojo.
Billie Gillespie was fired by Kentucky. They were not patient at all.
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Shaka has been a borderline disaster at Texas. Expectations were so much higher.
Talk about a downward trend line ... just look at Shaka's since the Final Four, which now was eons ago.
There is no evidence at all from the last 5-6 years to suggest Shaka is a better coach than any of 100+ other coaches, including Wojo. He got his chance to step up in class ... and he has failed.
Would he have been better at Marquette than he is at Texas? We'll never know. Mrs. Shaka made sure of that.
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Billie Gillespie was fired by Kentucky. They were not patient at all.
Correct, because with the cheating and other crap that has gone on at Kentucky for ages...you cannot afford not to win.
We ain’t Kentucky
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https://sports.yahoo.com/shaka-smart-lost-his-way-by-abandoning-what-made-him-successful-094336729.html
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Shaka has been a borderline disaster at Texas. Expectations were so much higher.
Talk about a downward trend line ... just look at Shaka's since the Final Four, which now was eons ago.
There is no evidence at all from the last 5-6 years to suggest Shaka is a better coach than any of 100+ other coaches, including Wojo. He got his chance to step up in class ... and he has failed.
Would he have been better at Marquette than he is at Texas? We'll never know. Mrs. Shaka made sure of that.
Actually Shakas performance is pretty similar to Wojo’s. Year 4 Shaka wins NiT, Wojo bounced in Quarters in year 4.
Texas hoops tradition is less than MU. Basketball is second fiddle. It’s a good job, but MU has a track record of much more hoops success.
This all being said, I would have felt Shaka would do a better job there and certainly appears he’s not any better than Wojo - other than having had the one run at VCU.
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https://sports.yahoo.com/shaka-smart-lost-his-way-by-abandoning-what-made-him-successful-094336729.html
Wow ... that article makes Shaka look pretty weak.
Actually Shakas performance is pretty similar to Wojo’s.
Shaka was supposed to be The Superstar Coach, the one mid-major guy every big-time program with an opening wanted. Wojo was The Safety School -- the guy we settled for when Mrs. Shaka declared her disdain for Real Chili, Pabst and bubblers.
I wish Wojo had done better so far. But when it comes to living up to expectations, Shaka hasn't come close. He has been a failure.
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Wojo was targeted by a couple of P6 schools last season
What schools? How do you know this? I don't remember Wojo turning down any offers.
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I expect Texas will look at Chris Beard first, which will be interesting to see play out.
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What schools? How do you know this? I don't remember Wojo turning down any offers.
And which fan base was “ecstatic” about it?
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What schools? How do you know this? I don't remember Wojo turning down any offers.
To my recollection VA Tech went after him. I feel like one other reached out as well
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To my recollection VA Tech went after him. I feel like one other reached out as well
VA Tech, and UNLV were both rumored, don't know if an official offer was extended. Very real possibility that feelers were sent out to see if there was any reciprocating interest. If they were sent out, another very real possibility that they were responded to by a "thanks, but no thanks".
And which fan base was “ecstatic” about it?
Don't know about "ecstatic", but there was considerable optimism from the VA Tech boards when they thought they were getting Wojo. A "coming home" of sorts. Don't know if this is what TAMU is referencing or not.
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I expect Texas will look at Chris Beard first, which will be interesting to see play out.
They should consider the guy at Tennessee.
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The landscape of the Texas job has changed a lot since it was last open. With Beard at Tech, Buzz at College Station, and the success Baylor continues to have, it's certainly going to be interesting once it opens. I think they're going to look for someone who has coached at a power conference, rather than going with a power conference assistant or a mid major successful coach.
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Buzz to Texas
The Aggies would burn the state down if that happened.
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VA Tech, and UNLV were both rumored, don't know if an official offer was extended. Very real possibility that feelers were sent out to see if there was any reciprocating interest. If they were sent out, another very real possibility that they were responded to by a "thanks, but no thanks".
Don't know about "ecstatic", but there was considerable optimism from the VA Tech boards when they thought they were getting Wojo. A "coming home" of sorts. Don't know if this is what TAMU is referencing or not.
So we've got a rumor that 1 P6 school offered, excuse me, sent out feelers to Wojo. Essentially, nothing to seriously back up TAMU's assertion. I don't know the truth but I hope TAMU has some actual information concerning the multiple P6 jobs.
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So we've got a rumor that 1 P6 school offered, excuse me, sent out feelers to Wojo. Essentially, nothing to seriously back up TAMU's assertion. I don't know the truth but I hope TAMU has some actual information concerning the multiple P6 jobs.
He interviewed with VT. They offered.
Unsure about any other P6 school.
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He interviewed with VT. They offered.
Is this verified/true?
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So we've got a rumor that 1 P6 school offered, excuse me, sent out feelers to Wojo. Essentially, nothing to seriously back up TAMU's assertion. I don't know the truth but I hope TAMU has some actual information concerning the multiple P6 jobs.
I wrote what I wrote because like you, I don't know what offers may or may not have come in. Given TAMUs history here, I highly doubt he would have said what he said without some form of insider information. Whether you like it or not, Wojo has and will continue to attract interest from other programs around the country. Are you such a No-Jo that you refuse to accept that other programs may be interested in him?
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Is this verified/true?
People I trust close to the program have confirmed it to me. Was it ever verified/confirmed publicly? Not sure. I do know two VT reporters published that he interviewed and he was the frontrunner.
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Good read on what went wrong for Shaka at UT.
https://sports.yahoo.com/shaka-smart-lost-his-way-by-abandoning-what-made-him-successful-094336729.html
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Correct, because with the cheating and other crap that has gone on at Kentucky for ages...you cannot afford not to win.
We ain’t Kentucky
ya know it's bad when the school helps ya cheat and still can't win, hey ohhh
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People I trust close to the program have confirmed it to me. Was it ever verified/confirmed publicly? Not sure. I do know two VT reporters published that he interviewed and he was the frontrunner.
Thanks for clarification. Part of the pitch of the ProJo’s has been that Wojo = stability and would likely remain at MU a long time.
Actually going and interviewing at VaTech certainly suggests he’s not necessarily any more long for MU than were his predecessors.
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I wrote what I wrote because like you, I don't know what offers may or may not have come in. Given TAMUs history here, I highly doubt he would have said what he said without some form of insider information. Whether you like it or not, Wojo has and will continue to attract interest from other programs around the country. Are you such a No-Jo that you refuse to accept that other programs may be interested in him?
I did write that I did not know the facts. I was asking a question. I did not dispute what anyone said, I simply asked for factual proof. I could have called the statement BS, but instead asked for evidence.
Seems to me a No-Jo would make up rumors of Wojo looking at other jobs to make it seem like he has one foot out the door at MU. A true Pro-Jo would question those rumors.
I would hope that all true MU fans would want Wojo to become attractive to high level programs.
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Thanks for clarification. Part of the pitch of the ProJo’s has been that Wojo = stability and would likely remain at MU a long time.
Actually going and interviewing at VaTech certainly suggests he’s not necessarily any more long for MU than were his predecessors.
I believe you are right. Not a good sign Wojo is in it for the long haul.
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People I trust close to the program have confirmed it to me. Was it ever verified/confirmed publicly? Not sure. I do know two VT reporters published that he interviewed and he was the frontrunner.
If true, these should easily be found. Can you link?
Edit: A quick google search finds nothing.
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I did write that I did not know the facts. I was asking a question. I did not dispute what anyone said, I simply asked for factual proof. I could have called the statement BS, but instead asked for evidence.
Seems to me a No-Jo would make up rumors of Wojo looking at other jobs to make it seem like he has one foot out the door at MU. A true Pro-Jo would question those rumors.
I would hope that all true MU fans would want Wojo to become attractive to high level programs.
Just because a coach is not openly flirting with the entire state of Texas, or threatening to leave in order to win a power struggle with his bosses/get a raise does not mean that they're not being targeted by other programs.
Most of this stuff happens behind closed doors and comes to nothing, which is why most of this stuff never has factual proof. Curious what factual proof you would be looking for too, because Wojo/MU would never say that the idea of leaving was serious since he's still here and that'd be a bad look, and other schools would never say that they targeted him, but couldn't land him as that's a bad look for them (correct me if I'm wrong but despite it being common knowledge here, MU never said anything official about failing to land Shaka). Given the amount of smoke coming from both sides fans I would highly guess that the rumors are true and Wojo was targeted even if there was no "official" interview or offer.
Buzz to A&M was the worst kept secret in cbb last year, and (I believe this is still true), most major coaches/ADs use the FF as a convention of sorts. It would have been very easy for VT to conduct low level "interviews" on the DL that there is no "proof" of.
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Good read on what went wrong for Shaka at UT.
https://sports.yahoo.com/shaka-smart-lost-his-way-by-abandoning-what-made-him-successful-094336729.html
I think this paragraph really sums up Shaka’s struggles at Texas, and is another way of saying he’s a poor program fit. What he did at VCU wasn’t a fluke and he hasn’t forgotten how to coach. I think he’s a much better fit for a brand like the Warriors. That’s just my opinion.
It appears Smart believes the marquee recruits he chases at Texas prefer a traditional, NBA-conducive system to the all-out, helter-skelter style that propelled VCU to national relevance. Perhaps Smart also questions whether he can implement HAVOC as successfully with freshmen and sophomores as he did with the junior- and senior-laden teams he coached at VCU.
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So we've got a rumor that 1 P6 school offered, excuse me, sent out feelers to Wojo. Essentially, nothing to seriously back up TAMU's assertion. I don't know the truth but I hope TAMU has some actual information concerning the multiple P6 jobs.
What were the rumors from Va Tech to Buzz...when did we find out about them?
How about IU to Crean?
Your honor, the defense rests.
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Just because a coach is not openly flirting with the entire state of Texas, or threatening to leave in order to win a power struggle with his bosses/get a raise does not mean that they're not being targeted by other programs.
Most of this stuff happens behind closed doors and comes to nothing, which is why most of this stuff never has factual proof. Curious what factual proof you would be looking for too, because Wojo/MU would never say that the idea of leaving was serious since he's still here and that'd be a bad look, and other schools would never say that they targeted him, but couldn't land him as that's a bad look for them (correct me if I'm wrong but despite it being common knowledge here, MU never said anything official about failing to land Shaka). Given the amount of smoke coming from both sides fans I would highly guess that the rumors are true and Wojo was targeted even if there was no "official" interview or offer.
Buzz to A&M was the worst kept secret in cbb last year, and (I believe this is still true), most major coaches/ADs use the FF as a convention of sorts. It would have been very easy for VT to conduct low level "interviews" on the DL that there is no "proof" of.
Maybe I should have said reports from credible sources. I'm not denying anything but I have a hard time taking MUScoop posts as gospel.
We have claims that Wojo was being considered for two P6 jobs and that two reporters published that Wojo interviewed for VT and was the front runner. Neither of these claims have been substantiated.
I'm the No-Jo guy because I ask for some evidence? Maybe we have poster's trying to make Wojo look bad for trying to get out of MU?
Lastly, I don't know what 'low level interviews' are. Either you interview because you are interested in the job or you don't. If the story was VT reached out to Wojo and he said 'no thanks', that's a totally different story. If you believe VT interviewed Wojo, then you better be ready for him to jump ship.
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If you don't know the difference between bringing someone in for a formal interview when there is a position available and quietly inferring that you would be interested in someone as a candidate before the job is technically open, even though everyone knows that it will be, and you're going to need official statements from either Wojo, MU, or a school targeting Wojo, none of which will ever happen, so you will forever be searching for your evidence, and when it fails to surface you will be convinced that none such exists. In this case, I can't really help you out.
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If you don't know the difference between bringing someone in for a formal interview when there is a position available and quietly inferring that you would be interested in someone as a candidate before the job is technically open, even though everyone knows that it will be, and you're going to need official statements from either Wojo, MU, or a school targeting Wojo, none of which will ever happen, so you will forever be searching for your evidence, and when it fails to surface you will be convinced that none such exists. In this case, I can't really help you out.
It sounds like your saying VT reached out to gauge Wojo's interest. That's not Wojo interviewing with VT. The poster specifically said there were two reports that Wojo interviewed for the job.
If you've never been contacted by a company or search firm for a job and know that is not remotely close to engaging in an interview, I can't really help you out.
Honestly, I don't know if this is some sort of ploy to make Wojo look like he is looking to get the hell out of MU or what?
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It sounds like your saying VT reached out to gauge Wojo's interest. That's not Wojo interviewing with VT. The poster specifically said there were two reports that Wojo interviewed for the job.
If you've never been contacted by a company or search firm for a job and know that is not remotely close to engaging in an interview, I can't really help you out.
Honestly, I don't know is this is some sort of ploy to make Wojo look like he is looking to get the hell out of MU or what.
I don't know why you're looking for some "smoking gun" that Wojo was approached about another job. Is there any "factual proof" that Shaka turned us down? How do we know that he wasn't just brought in for an interview and MU brass decided he wasn't cut out for the job? The point is that lack of "factual proof" should not and does not dismiss these coaching changes rumors.
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I don't know why you're looking for some "smoking gun" that Wojo was approached about another job. Is there any "factual proof" that Shaka turned us down? How do we know that he wasn't just brought in for an interview and MU brass decided he wasn't cut out for the job? The point is that lack of "factual proof" should not and does not dismiss these coaching changes rumors.
I think your picking a fight with the wrong person. I was not the one making the claims. I guess your point is we should accept anything posted here as fact? On that point, I can not agree.
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He interviewed with VT. They offered.
Unsure about any other P6 school.
I wouldn't go that far. Don't believe everything you hear.
UCLA is the other one that put out feelers.
People are kidding themselves if they don't think Wojo wouldn't be a hot commodity if he was looking to make a change. No landing any blueblood positions but he could land at another P6 pretty easily.
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I think your picking a fight with the wrong person. I was not the one making the claims. I guess your point is we should accept anything posted here as fact? On that point, I can not agree.
So I guess you didn't think Buzz was going to A&M until he was announced because everything before was "just a rumor". On the day he announced you thought we had a 33.33% chance to land Dawson, because all reports were rumors. Think Ed is coming back because everything saying that he quit is just a rumor. Not saying they're always correct, but considering who's said that Wojo was targeted I'll choose to believe them, you don't have to.
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People I trust close to the program have confirmed it to me. Was it ever verified/confirmed publicly? Not sure. I do know two VT reporters published that he interviewed and he was the frontrunner.
I second this.
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So I guess you didn't think Buzz was going to A&M until he was announced because everything before was "just a rumor". On the day he announced you thought we had a 33.33% chance to land Dawson, because all reports were rumors. Think Ed is coming back because everything saying that he quit is just a rumor. Not saying they're always correct, but considering who's said that Wojo was targeted I'll choose to believe them, you don't have to.
I still think you are pointing your angst at the wrong person.
I have read here that Wojo was on the verge of getting fired. Then MU gives him an extension.
I have read here that MU's administration absolutely loves him. Then MU gives him that modest extension.
So, yes, I don't take anything here as fact without some credible support.
Unless I am given any reliable information, I don't believe Wojo has been a candidate for a P6 job and I think anyone who claims he has been interviewing for them is trying to undermine Wojo's commitment to MU.
Agreed to disagree.
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Can ANYONE provide any source about Wojo being interviewed by VT or any other program?
I've now seen people claim there were published reports of this.
But I haven't seen any source (the published stories) to back this up.
I'm not questioning that the interview/feelers/backroom discussions did/did not happen. I'm questioning the published stories/reports.
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The Wojo to UNLV was created by social media.
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Can ANYONE provide any source about Wojo being interviewed by VT or any other program?
I've now seen people claim there were published reports of this.
But I haven't seen any source (the published stories) to back this up.
I'm not questioning that the interview/feelers/backroom discussions did/did not happen. I'm questioning the published stories/reports.
Do you guys not remember this hubub?
There was a flight from Gary, Indiana to Roanoke. The VT fans thought this was Wojo. (Since MKE, ORD, and MDW would be too obvious).
I'm not kidding.
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Do you guys not remember this hubub?
There was a flight from Gary, Indiana to Roanoke. The VT fans thought this was Wojo. (Since MKE, ORD, and MDW would be too obvious).
I'm not kidding.
Yeah, this is pure craziness.
https://www.techlunchpail.com/blog/rumors-flight-patterns-pointing-buzz-williams-steve-wojciechowski-virginia-tech
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Well, anyone sitting around waiting for Marquette to fire a coach is now in their 21st straight year of misery, right? I'm glad we don't fire coaches, and continue to believe it would be insane to fire Wojo even if Marquette did fire coaches.
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I believe you are right. Not a good sign Wojo is in it for the long haul.
Gonna disagree. Half of MU fans wanted Wojo dead including people personally attacking him on Twitter.
If someone did that to me over my job, and felt my job was maybe on the line, you damn better believe I’m entertaining other offers.
(Granted I’m not making the millions.)
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Yeah, this is pure craziness.
https://www.techlunchpail.com/blog/rumors-flight-patterns-pointing-buzz-williams-steve-wojciechowski-virginia-tech
Ha. Yeah that was silly stuff. People will rationalize anything.
“They flew to Rome to meet at the Vatican cause it’s not close to VT or Marquette...”
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Gonna disagree. Half of MU fans wanted Wojo dead including people personally attacking him on Twitter.
If someone did that to me over my job, and felt my job was maybe on the line, you damn better believe I’m entertaining other offers.
(Granted I’m not making the millions.)
There is a part of me that wants him to leave, set the world on fire, win a natty or two while our program goes into the toilet to purge the crazies for a ten year run. I don’t really want that to happen, but the disconnect from reality sometimes needs a massive jolting action and historical reset.
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/xT5LMrIJ1nFbZpYWUU/giphy.gif)
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Can ANYONE provide any source about Wojo being interviewed by VT or any other program?
I've now seen people claim there were published reports of this.
But I haven't seen any source (the published stories) to back this up.
I'm not questioning that the interview/feelers/backroom discussions did/did not happen. I'm questioning the published stories/reports.
Only published reports I saw were on message boards. I don't believe it was actually reported anywhere.
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There is a part of me that wants him to leave, set the world on fire, win a natty or two while our program goes into the toilet to purge the crazies for a ten year run. I don’t really want that to happen, but the disconnect from reality sometimes needs a massive jolting action and historical reset.
I’ve seen you criticize fans who you claim want MU to lose in order to get rid of Wojo. What you just said is 1,000,000,000 x worse than those you’ve criticized.
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By purge, I mean self purge. Great to have high expectations, also great to have realistic expectations because you can drive away really good people when expectations are impossible. There are some fans here that are just miserable all the time, any imperfection anywhere is doom and gloom. I don’t know why they continue with the heartache....I just don’t get it. There are other programs that will get you to 3 or 4 losses a year to limit your unhappiness.
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By purge, I mean self purge. Great to have high expectations, also great to have realistic expectations because you can drive away really good people when expectations are impossible. There are some fans here that are just miserable all the time, any imperfection anywhere is doom and gloom. I don’t know why they continue with the heartache....I just don’t get it. There are other programs that will get you to 3 or 4 losses a year to limit your unhappiness.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_is_the_enemy_of_good
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I’ve seen you criticize fans who you claim want MU to lose in order to get rid of Wojo. What you just said is 1,000,000,000 x worse than those you’ve criticized.
I think the poll I ran last week proved it out, some fans absolutely want us to lose so he is gone. That’s not a claim, those were the results by 20% of the takers here.
In my view why are people putting themselves through the pain knowing that we will merely field a really good team, rep university well, try to do it right knowing that this will also likely mean limited chances at the big prize. If that is your only source of pleasure, to win it all....I dare say you are following the wrong program or are a glutton for punishment in my opinion.
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I wouldn't go that far. Don't believe everything you hear.
UCLA is the other one that put out feelers.
People are kidding themselves if they don't think Wojo wouldn't be a hot commodity if he was looking to make a change. No landing any blueblood positions but he could land at another P6 pretty easily.
My speculation is that Wojo will take the first attractive P5 Football school offer that is available. Attractive defined as big money contract, big recruiting budget and some tradition of basketball . All depends on what jobs open up each year on coaching carousel.
Wojo is in a good position to wait and be selective. No one is going to kick him out of MU any time soon. He landed a decent recruiting class which will buy him more time.
One possible scenario is that Self leaves Kansas to go to the Pros. Turgeon goes to Kansas and Wojo then goes home to Maryland.
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My speculation is that Wojo will take the first attractive P5 Football school offer that is available. Attractive defined as big money contract, big recruiting budget and some tradition of basketball . All depends on what jobs open up each year on coaching carousel.
Wojo is in a good position to wait and be selective. No one is going to kick him out of MU any time soon. He landed a decent recruiting class which will buy him more time.
One possible scenario is that Self leaves Kansas to go to the Pros. Turgeon goes to Kansas and Wojo then goes home to Maryland.
Decent recruiting class?
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I think the poll I ran last week proved it out
They laughed at me and made jokes but I proved beyond the shadow of a doubt and with... geometric logic...
https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/lose-your-marbles.html
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Can ANYONE provide any source about Wojo being interviewed by VT or any other program?
I've now seen people claim there were published reports of this.
But I haven't seen any source (the published stories) to back this up.
I'm not questioning that the interview/feelers/backroom discussions did/did not happen. I'm questioning the published stories/reports.
Report was probably too strong of a word. There was a 247 insider from VT, I think his name was Jamie Oakes, who said the deal was close to done. There were a couple MU sources too. It's not usually "reported" until a job has been accepted.
I should have been more clear. The sources close to MU also indicated that the interview was more for leverage than something Wojo was close to accepting. But that's what they would say regardless.
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My speculation is that Wojo will take the first attractive P5 Football school offer that is available. Attractive defined as big money contract, big recruiting budget and some tradition of basketball . All depends on what jobs open up each year on coaching carousel.
Wojo is in a good position to wait and be selective. No one is going to kick him out of MU any time soon. He landed a decent recruiting class which will buy him more time.
One possible scenario is that Self leaves Kansas to go to the Pros. Turgeon goes to Kansas and Wojo then goes home to Maryland.
My perspective is that your perspective is wrong.
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One possible scenario is that Self leaves Kansas to go to the Pros. Turgeon goes to Kansas is jettisoned into the sun and Wojo then goes home to Maryland.
Fixed it with a more plausible scenario. There is no way Kansas would hire Turgeon. So what if he played there 35 years ago? They'd go for Beard or Donovan or someone of consequence.
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Thought I'd bring this back for a little enjoyment and appreciation.
We went from "Please finish a season in the Top 25" to "Wow, we finished 6th in the Country with 2 Conference Titles" to "Holy chit, we are 5th in the Country while the season is 3 weeks away".
Hopefully only up from here!
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There is a part of me that wants him to leave, set the world on fire, win a natty or two while our program goes into the toilet to purge the crazies for a ten year run. I don’t really want that to happen, but the disconnect from reality sometimes needs a massive jolting action and historical reset.
Always entertaining to read another Chicos pees down his leg and issues a massive choke job of a post. Then again there were plenty of other Scooper "Intelligencia" that were all in on Wojo and thought it would be ludicrous to fire Wojo.
The real disconnect from reality were those Scoopers who thought Wojo had any potential as a coach (comparing him to early stage Jay Wright), and who felt MU couldn't do better than Wojo.
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There is a part of me that wants him to leave, set the world on fire, win a natty or two while our program goes into the toilet to purge the crazies for a ten year run. I don’t really want that to happen, but the disconnect from reality sometimes needs a massive jolting action and historical reset.
L O F'n L
The delusional fanbase now cheers on a preseason Top 5 team that won the Big East and BET.
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Always entertaining to read another Chicos pees down his leg and issues a massive choke job of a post. Then again there were plenty of other Scooper "Intelligencia" that were all in on Wojo and thought it would be ludicrous to fire Wojo.
The real disconnect from reality were those Scoopers who thought Wojo had any potential as a coach (comparing him to early stage Jay Wright), and who felt MU couldn't do better than Wojo.
Well, luckily it worked out in the long run. Holding onto to Wojo until Shaka became available was quite fortuitous.
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Always entertaining to read another Chicos pees down his leg and issues a massive choke job of a post. Then again there were plenty of other Scooper "Intelligencia" that were all in on Wojo and thought it would be ludicrous to fire Wojo.
The real disconnect from reality were those Scoopers who thought Wojo had any potential as a coach (comparing him to early stage Jay Wright), and who felt MU couldn't do better than Wojo.
There certainly were some "fun" takes in here, mostly by hoopaloop but lots of others by lots of Scoopers; even a couple by me.
And then there's this mope's take:
Actually Shakas performance is pretty similar to Wojo’s. Year 4 Shaka wins NiT, Wojo bounced in Quarters in year 4.
Texas hoops tradition is less than MU. Basketball is second fiddle. It’s a good job, but MU has a track record of much more hoops success.
This all being said, I would have felt Shaka would do a better job there and certainly appears he’s not any better than Wojo - other than having had the one run at VCU.
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There is a part of me that wants him to leave, set the world on fire, win a natty or two while our program goes into the toilet to purge the crazies for a ten year run. I don’t really want that to happen, but the disconnect from reality sometimes needs a massive jolting action and historical reset.
This is even better reading now then when I originally responded. I’m happy to see I called out his hypocrisy real time
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It's been over two years since this blog was updated. I wonder why? Articles like "Shaka Smart would be a dumb move" have aged so well.
https://www.mupoop.com/
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Happy to have been wrong about Wojo. I'll never apologize for rooting for the success of the sitting head coach of Marquette's basketball team. But we're clearly in a much better place now.
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Always entertaining to read another Chicos pees down his leg and issues a massive choke job of a post. Then again there were plenty of other Scooper "Intelligencia" that were all in on Wojo and thought it would be ludicrous to fire Wojo.
Such memories. It is remarkable how someone who spoke with such authority could be so wrong about so many things so much of the time.
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There certainly were some "fun" takes in here, mostly by hoopaloop but lots of others by lots of Scoopers; even a couple by me.
And then there's this mope's take:
Well sure..as I'd mentioned - I was surprised Shaka didn't have more success at Texas, and it was in response to your continued beating of the drum that Wojo and Shaka were essentially equal caliber coaches. Thankfully, we did get to know and Shaka has proved your constant criticism and comparisons of him to Wojo during the Wojo years were ridiculous.
Shaka has been a borderline disaster at Texas. Expectations were so much higher.
Talk about a downward trend line ... just look at Shaka's since the Final Four, which now was eons ago.
There is no evidence at all from the last 5-6 years to suggest Shaka is a better coach than any of 100+ other coaches, including Wojo. He got his chance to step up in class ... and he has failed.
Would he have been better at Marquette than he is at Texas? We'll never know. Mrs. Shaka made sure of that.
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"Would he have been better at Marquette than he is at Texas? We'll never know."
LOL
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I really hope - obviously I guess - that we completely crush Texas this year.
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Let's see, he's already won more tournament games here, so things are looking good for shaka thus far.
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Well, anyone sitting around waiting for Marquette to fire a coach is now in their 21st straight year of misery, right? I'm glad we don't fire coaches, and continue to believe it would be insane to fire Wojo even if Marquette did fire coaches.
Posts that did not age well for 500.
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There is a part of me that wants him to leave, set the world on fire, win a natty or two while our program goes into the toilet to purge the crazies for a ten year run. I don’t really want that to happen, but the disconnect from reality sometimes needs a massive jolting action and historical reset.
Posts that did not age well for 10000.
You also still owe me $200.
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It's been over two years since this blog was updated. I wonder why? Articles like "Shaka Smart would be a dumb move" have aged so well.
https://www.mupoop.com/
MUPOOP hates us.
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Happy to have been wrong about Wojo. I'll never apologize for rooting for the success of the sitting head coach of Marquette's basketball team. But we're clearly in a much better place now.
Wades
I wish you had been right about Wojo - we might have another National Championship to our credit.
And nobody has to apologize for rooting for success for MU and the sitting head coach. I was rooting for it long after I knew Wojo wasn’t the goods.
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Wades
I wish you had been right about Wojo - we might have another National Championship to our credit.
And nobody has to apologize for rooting for success for MU and the sitting head coach. I was rooting it long after I knew Wojo wasn’t the goods.
I dont think there were many people actively rooting for Wojo to fail. But pointing out his many mistakes, and lack of basketball knowledge.
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"What is...?"
Wojo
Shaka
Cord Cutting
NIL
NCAA penalties by end of the summer
Other shoe to drop
Larry Williams
Traditionals
5...I mean 7 years to judge
What's a Chicos
Great Jeopardy category: Things that Cheeks was wildly wrong about". Where is the boy? Boise?
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Well sure..as I'd mentioned - I was surprised Shaka didn't have more success at Texas, and it was in response to your continued beating of the drum that Wojo and Shaka were essentially equal caliber coaches. Thankfully, we did get to know and Shaka has proved your constant criticism and comparisons of him to Wojo during the Wojo years were ridiculous.
Nice spin, but ... "Actually Shaka's performance is pretty similar to Wojo’s. ... I would have felt Shaka would do a better job there and certainly appears he’s not any better than Wojo - other than having had the one run at VCU."
Your words.
I'm glad GE03 bumped this thread because it was fun and enlightening to read that you said almost the exact same thing about Shaka that you've criticized others for.
Glad he made it to Marquette despite criticism from the likes of me and you. He's doing a hell of a job for our alma mater.
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Nice spin, but ... "Actually Shaka's performance is pretty similar to Wojo’s. ... I would have felt Shaka would do a better job there and certainly appears he’s not any better than Wojo - other than having had the one run at VCU."
Your words.
I'm glad GE03 bumped this thread because it was fun and enlightening to read that you said almost the exact same thing about Shaka that you've criticized others for.
Glad he made it to Marquette despite criticism from the likes of me and you. He's doing a hell of a job for our alma mater.
I could go back and probably quote 50+ posts you made being critical of Shaka during the Wojo era. And of those 30 I probably called you out on about half of them - and your incessant desire to try to claim Wojo and Shaka were comparable coaches.
In order to be a bit more civil with you (and not engage in your frequent desire to become argumentative) I gave you some grace when you pointed out Wojo and Shaka's performances hadn't been too different - other than pointing out Shaka won an NIT title and Wojo had the quarterfinal appearance, and that Shaka had a previous Final Four in his pocket. And of course I said I was also surprised Shaka hadn't had more success at Texas.
By the way, while we are on the subject of Wojo, during which season did I say he didn't have it/and was a poor coach? I'll hang up and listen.
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Did Chico’s create a new moniker or has he really not posted since Shaka was hired?
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Did Chico’s create a new moniker or has he really not posted since Shaka was hired?
He’s gone off the deep end on “X”.
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He’s gone off the deep end on “X”.
Chico’s real name is Elon? ;D
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I could go back and probably quote 50+ posts you made being critical of Shaka during the Wojo era. And of those 30 I probably called you out on about half of them - and your incessant desire to try to claim Wojo and Shaka were comparable coaches.
In order to be a bit more civil with you (and not engage in your frequent desire to become argumentative) I gave you some grace when you pointed out Wojo and Shaka's performances hadn't been too different - other than pointing out Shaka won an NIT title and Wojo had the quarterfinal appearance, and that Shaka had a previous Final Four in his pocket. And of course I said I was also surprised Shaka hadn't had more success at Texas.
By the way, while we are on the subject of Wojo, during which season did I say he didn't have it/and was a poor coach? I'll hang up and listen.
Perfect response from one of the most argumentative posters in Scoop history.
Good spin again, too.
“Actually Shaka's performance is pretty similar to Wojo’s. ... I would have felt Shaka would do a better job there and certainly appears he’s not any better than Wojo - other than having had the one run at VCU."
Love it. And again, I’m glad it looks like we were both wrong.
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My lord. We are about to tip off the most anticipated Marquette season in decades and people are fighting over who said what about Wojo?
Y’all are making 4ever’s obsession with Crean seem normal and level-headed.
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ND sucks
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My lord. We are about to tip off the most anticipated Marquette season in decades and people are fighting over who said what about Wojo?
Y’all are making 4ever’s obsession with Crean seem normal and level-headed.
ND sucks
Well done sir
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My lord. We are about to tip off the most anticipated Marquette season in decades and people are fighting over who said what about Wojo?
Y’all are making 4ever’s obsession with Crean seem normal and level-headed.
First time reading Scoop? Welcome!
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My lord. We are about to tip off the most anticipated Marquette season in decades and people are fighting over who said what about Wojo?
Y’all are making 4ever’s obsession with Crean seem normal and level-headed.
I do think a special exception could be made for dunking on Chicos’ hot takes.
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Crean is in MU's HOF twice. MU has always appreciated him, made him set for life. But like all people, he is flawed. It sounds like he atoned for his sins.
That said in the history of MU basketball coaches, with the exception of Rick, MU was their high water mark. Shaka needs a Natty to top his Final 4 at VCU, however.
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Crean is in MU's HOF twice. MU has always appreciated him, made him set for life. But like all people, he is flawed. It sounds like he atoned for his sins.
That said in the history of MU basketball coaches, with the exception of Rick, MU was their high water mark. Shaka needs a Natty to top his Final 4 at VCU, however.
TIL Tex Winter never made it better than a very mediocre couple years at MU.
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TIL Tex Winter never made it better than a very mediocre couple years at MU.
Tex ended up OK in the end ;)
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TIL Tex Winter never made it better than a very mediocre couple years at MU.
Tex had his only head coaching banner hanging in the Bradley Center rafters.
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Tex had his only head coaching banner hanging in the Bradley Center rafters.
Wouldn't that mean Rick never had a banner to hang either?
Also thank god they subtly got right of a sub .500 season banner
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Wouldn't that mean Rick never had a banner to hang either?
Also thank god they subtly got right of a sub .500 season banner
Drunk?
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Drunk?
Sick, so yes.
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Sick, so yes.
Get well, friend!
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Tex had his only head coaching banner hanging in the Bradley Center rafters.
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-JuzgNuWt1hc/XBbVH9EQOTI/AAAAAAAAJ7g/blRlUHQlbg80lwQtv_PVmV6oWpO4gsnfACLcBGAs/s1600/IMG_20181215_183420501.jpg)
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ND sucks
Bravo!
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Based on what Shaka had done at Texas, which wasn't that much different from what Wojo did at MU, I could see the reason for concern at the time. But it was pretty obvious Wojo had to go, and I'm really glad any concerns about Shaka turned out to be unfounded.
It is just great to be excited about MU Hoops again.
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Based on what Shaka had done at Texas, which wasn't that much different from what Wojo did at MU, I could see the reason for concern at the time. But it was pretty obvious Wojo had to go, and I'm really glad any concerns about Shaka turned out to be unfounded.
It is just great to be excited about MU Hoops again.
Was very happy MU moved on from Wojo. It was the type of move you'd expect from a program with very high standards. Let's face it, Wojo had a solid record and off the court he and the players were A+. A great number of schools would have been very happy with Wojo and his results (looking at you, DePaul).
MU rededicated itself to being elite in basketball with O'Neill then axing Deane who averaged 20 wins a season, and so on. MU is big time basketball; which is why I never could grasp the argument to keep Wojo because we couldn't do better.
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Was very happy MU moved on from Wojo. It was the type of move you'd expect from a program with very high standards. Let's face it, Wojo had a solid record and off the court he and the players were A+. A great number of schools would have been very happy with Wojo and his results (looking at you, DePaul).
MU rededicated itself to being elite in basketball with O'Neill then axing Deane who averaged 20 wins a season, and so on. MU is big time basketball; which is why I never could grasp the argument to keep Wojo because we couldn't do better.
The argument in 2020 was Covid finances which turned out not to be a problem. I underestimated the funds available to fire him and get Shaka.
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The argument in 2020 was Covid finances which turned out not to be a problem. I underestimated the funds available to fire him and get Shaka.
I can follow that logic.
Some on here simply questioned the quality and attractiveness of the MU job. That was where I was honestly baffled.
Everyone, seriously everyone, I have met and follows CBB to any degree always mentions or talks at great length about how MU is 'big time' CBB. And those people I'm sure have no idea about the financial commitment MU has that sustains the decades of top tier basketball.
I'm not claiming MU is a blue blood, but what box is MU not checking as an elite basketball program?
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I can follow that logic.
Some on here simply questioned the quality and attractiveness of the MU job. That was where I was honestly baffled.
Everyone, seriously everyone, I have met and follows CBB to any degree always mentions or talks at great length about how MU is 'big time' CBB. And those people I'm sure have no idea about the financial commitment MU has that sustains the decades of top tier basketball.
I'm not claiming MU is a blue blood, but what box is MU not checking as an elite basketball program?
It was a perfect storm of events. One of those moments where both sides ran towards each other. Abeline Christian win changed the course of Marquette basketball
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It was a perfect storm of events. One of those moments where both sides ran towards each other. Abeline Christian win changed the course of Marquette basketball
And a donor's checkbook.
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It was a perfect storm of events. One of those moments where both sides ran towards each other. Abeline Christian win changed the course of Marquette basketball
And it sure seem like a perfect "marriage" at this time. Shaka is a phenomenal human being, whose values and principles align perfectly with Marquette's. Lovell and university admin realize what an asset Shaka is to the university and there seems to be a fantastic chemistry between Shaka, Lovell, Scholl etc.
Further, I can't see how any professors at MU could not, at minimum, respect Shaka and his intellect -even if they may harbor some resentment toward a basketball coach being the highest paid employee at the university.
I was a huge Buzz fan, but can reflect back and say Shaka ultimately is a much better fit at MU from every perspective.
Not sure which donor(s) wrote the checks to make the move happen, but MU and its alums should be forever grateful to that/those donor(s).
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The argument in 2020 was Covid finances which turned out not to be a problem. I underestimated the funds available to fire him and get Shaka.
Yessir. I really had absolutely no idea that we had alums willing to spend millions of dollars to do that kind of buyout. Obviously I'm thrilled with the way things worked out.
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The argument in 2020 was Covid finances which turned out not to be a problem. I underestimated the funds available to fire him and get Shaka.
That and at the time MU was in a public fight with its faculty over recent layoffs (which was another symptom of the COVID finances). I think there was legitimate concern about the perception of paying millions to fire an employee when the university had just laid off dozens of employees citing the financial health of the university. Donors removed that concern.
I can follow that logic.
Some on here simply questioned the quality and attractiveness of the MU job. That was where I was honestly baffled.
You have to be honest about the MU job. It is a very quality and attractive job...for mid and low major (and a handful of the lower P6) coaches looking to move up, assistant coaches looking to get a promotion, or unsuccessful P6 coaches looking to get a fresh start. MU is not a good enough job to poach a successful P6 (now P5) coach. And that's not an insult, that's true of all but maybe 10-15 programs.
This is part of why the timing of Wojo being fired happened when it did. Ideally, you go into a coaching search with a target in mind and knowing that you can get that target and that they're going to be an upgrade over your current coach. In our case, that target was Porter Moser. MU knew that the very worst they could do after they fired Wojo was Porter Moser who would have been a significant upgrade. Then Abilene Christian beat Texas and Shaka went from a successful P6 coach to an unsuccessful one who we fortunately knew had a lot of potential still in him. The rest is history
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This is part of why the timing of Wojo being fired happened when it did. Ideally, you go into a coaching search with a target in mind and knowing that you can get that target and that they're going to be an upgrade over your current coach. In our case, that target was Porter Moser. MU knew that the very worst they could do after they fired Wojo was Porter Moser who would have been a significant upgrade. Then Abilene Christian beat Texas and Shaka went from a successful P6 coach to an unsuccessful one who we fortunately knew had a lot of potential still in him. The rest is history
I'm going to go ahead and disagree that Porter Moser is a clear upgrade over Wojo. As a tactical coach, Moser is hands down better than Wojo. But recruiting would be a HUGE downgrade.
Moser gave me Mike Deane 2.0 vibes. And his run at Oklahoma has done little to change my opinion. Looking at their roster, it's very transfer heavy. And those transfers fall into two buckets: 1) Good mid-major players and 2) Bad high-major players. It's definitely not an NCAA tournament caliber roster.
Maybe Moser is just a bad recruiting fit at Oklahoma. But, man, the shine wore off pretty quickly. I imagine Moser will be on the hot seat pretty soon, if he isn't already. I foresee him eventually ending up back at a mid-major.
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I'm going to go ahead and disagree that Porter Moser is a clear upgrade over Wojo. As a tactical coach, Moser is hands down better than Wojo. But recruiting would be a HUGE downgrade.
Moser gave me Mike Deane 2.0 vibes. And his run at Oklahoma has done little to change my opinion. Looking at their roster, it's very transfer heavy. And those transfers fall into two buckets: 1) Good mid-major players and 2) Bad high-major players. It's definitely not an NCAA tournament caliber roster.
Maybe Moser is just a bad recruiting fit at Oklahoma. But, man, the shine wore off pretty quickly. I imagine Moser will be on the hot seat pretty soon, if he isn't already. I foresee him eventually ending up back at a mid-major.
I don't think Moser is the best coach, but Moser would have undoubtedly been a significant improvement on wojo.
Moser's first year at Oklahoma was higher rated in KP than EVERY wojo team. Moser went to a final 4 from the missouri valley, and then took a top 10 computer team to the sweet 16. The Big 12 doesn't have any bottom feeders, he is just getting beaten down by a conference chalked full of talent. Every Wojo Marquette team would look the same way in that conference.
Nothing about Moser was "Mike Deane 2.0". Mike Deane lacked clear success as a mid major before MU. If i had to call someone in the conference Mike Deane it would be Kim English. But at least Kim has youth on his side.
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I don't think Moser is the best coach, but Moser would have undoubtedly been a significant improvement on wojo.
Moser's first year at Oklahoma was higher rated in KP than EVERY wojo team. Moser went to a final 4 from the missouri valley, and then took a top 10 computer team to the sweet 16. The Big 12 doesn't have any bottom feeders, he is just getting beaten down by a conference chalked full of talent. Every Wojo Marquette team would look the same way in that conference.
Nothing about Moser was "Mike Deane 2.0". Mike Deane lacked clear success as a mid major before MU. If i had to call someone in the conference Mike Deane it would be Kim English. But at least Kim has youth on his side.
Porter Moser era Marquette after two years versus Shaka Smart era Marquette after two years is an interesting thought exercise. I have severe doubts Marquette is a legit national title contender in year 3 of a Moser era at Marquette.
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Porter would have yielded slightly better results than Wojo but they would have felt better.
Taking no names and coaching them up to a Top 6 BE finish and a 7 through 10 seed feels better than taking 9 RSCI Top 100s and ending up losing in the first round. MU fans are not used to their teams being talented and underacheiving. Usually if we're talented we win and if we're not we half the time over acheive. Wojo was the opposite of what MU has experienced the last 50 years.
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Porter would have yielded slightly better results than Wojo but they would have felt better.
Taking no names and coaching them up to a Top 6 BE finish and a 7 through 10 seed feels better than taking 9 RSCI Top 100s and ending up losing in the first round. MU fans are not used to their teams being talented and underacheiving. Usually if we're talented we win and if we're not we half the time over acheive. Wojo was the opposite of what MU has experienced the last 50 years.
Idk about you but I'd say between 02-10 we had plenty of extremely talented teams yet only 1 run. In fact go even further to 93 and we have 2 runs out of 11 attempts not sure that qualifies us as being used to winning if we're talented.
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Porter Moser era Marquette after two years versus Shaka Smart era Marquette after two years is an interesting thought exercise. I have severe doubts Marquette is a legit national title contender in year 3 of a Moser era at Marquette.
Yep.
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Idk about you but I'd say between 02-10 we had plenty of extremely talented teams yet only 1 run. In fact go even further to 93 and we have 2 runs out of 11 attempts not sure that qualifies us as being used to winning if we're talented.
And that's why fans began to sour on Crean. And then grew to love Buzz. Buzz always felt like he was overdelivering (until he didn't) in part bc he was bringing in jucos and retooling a lot.
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By "Mike Deane 2.0," I meant that I viewed both he and Moser as good tacticians but my gut instinct was that Moser would struggle with recruiting just as Deane did.
Ultimately, we'll never know how Moser's recruiting at Marquette would have played out. But his recruiting at Oklahoma has done nothing to change my opinion.
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By "Mike Deane 2.0," I meant that I viewed both he and Moser as good tacticians but my gut instinct was that Moser would struggle with recruiting just as Deane did.
Ultimately, we'll never know how Moser's recruiting at Marquette would have played out. But his recruiting at Oklahoma has done nothing to change my opinion.
two four star recruits this year
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I see it as: Shaka>Moser>>>>>>Deane
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I think Moser is going to do fine at Oklahoma. Being a football school will give him plenty of rope. His MO seems to take a couple years, sort of like Majerus, but he has shown he knows what type of players can succeed in his system and after a couple of years his teams are an incredibly hard out. We'll see. Shaka is a unicorn, sort of like Al. As stated above it was alot of unlikely things happening at just the right time but now he is building a program in exactly the way, as an MU fan, I love to see it built - culture, culture, culture. I love how he plays the freshman even though that can put some games at risk, I love the defense style he has chosen - maybe not the style that will produce the statistically best defense but it is a fun way to play, and what is fun is easier to motivate players' efforts. He seems to be all about getting the intangible competitive edge of having the payers find spiritual (not sure if that is the right word) motivation to exceed their natural abilities. It is an incredible program.
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I have done so well at avoiding this thread....
One of Moser's trademarks at Loyola was running a lot of the offense out of the high post. Oso would have thrived in that. Perhaps not as much as he is in the endless motion pick and roll. But he would have done well.
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5 years to judge
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5 years to judge
I know it’s a joke that we like to use, but there was a time that was accurate, for the most part. That time is over, though.
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I think Moser is going to do fine at Oklahoma. Being a football school will give him plenty of rope. His MO seems to take a couple years
Yeah, it took him only 14 years to finish higher than 5th in any conference. He's got this!
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Yeah, it took him only 14 years to finish higher than 5th in any conference. He's got this!
Yes and then he had it rolling at an elite level. Final 4 and 2 years later taking down a 1 seed in what was pure art. That Illinois team was amazing and playing great and he beat them. I'd say he's a proven program builder however long it took him. Took Majerus a minute too.
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Yes and then he had it rolling at an elite level. Final 4 and 2 years later taking down a 1 seed in what was pure art. That Illinois team was amazing and playing great and he beat them. I'd say he's a proven program builder however long it took him. Took Majerus a minute too.
The coach Marquette rejected appreciates your support.
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I know it’s a joke that we like to use, but there was a time that was accurate, for the most part. That time is over, though.
Agreed. There's still some wisdom in not getting overly excited/disappointed about a coach based on the results of single seasons....but insta-transfers changes the game. Coaches can now build contenders from nothing in a single offseason.
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Yes and then he had it rolling at an elite level. Final 4 and 2 years later taking down a 1 seed in what was pure art. That Illinois team was amazing and playing great and he beat them. I'd say he's a proven program builder however long it took him. Took Majerus a minute too.
Oklahoma wasn’t nearly as bad as Loyola and it was a different time wrt the portal. I think he’s completely miscast there and will be gone if he has another year like last year.
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Some on here simply questioned the quality and attractiveness of the MU job. That was where I was honestly baffled.
It's just history. Look at our hires since Al. Hank, Rick, & Buzz were all internal hires. O'Neill, Crean, & Wojo were assistants getting their first HC gig. The only sitting head coaches we hired were Dukiet & Deane from the mid-major MAAC.
Probably didn't help that we were very publicly turned down by a certain mid-major coach our last go around.
We know what this program is and could be, but 40 years of hiring indicates the outside view didn't match with our assessment.
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It's just history. Look at our hires since Al. Hank, Rick, & Buzz were all internal hires. O'Neill, Crean, & Wojo were assistants getting their first HC gig. The only sitting head coaches we hired were Dukiet & Deane from the mid-major MAAC.
Probably didn't help that we were very publicly turned down by a certain mid-major coach our last go around.
We know what this program is and could be, but 40 years of hiring indicates the outside view didn't match with our assessment.
What were Duke's last two hires? Low major HC and an internal hire. Villanova? Mid major HC and internal hire. Arizona? Mid major HC and assistant. MU? Duke assistant and Texas HC.
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What were Duke's last two hires? Low major HC and an internal hire. Villanova? Mid major HC and internal hire. Arizona? Mid major HC and assistant. MU? Duke assistant and Texas HC.
First, you can't count Shaka to this thread because it was started when Shaka was in the middle of his last season at Texas. Second, Duke and Nova aren't good comps to Marquette's pre-Shaka hires because there were multiple national championships between those two hires.
But what this really shows is that aspiring to hire sitting high major head coaches is really uncommon and difficult. That's why Shaka was such an incredible hire, and it's even more impressive how well it's worked out so far.
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First, you can't count Shaka to this thread because it was started when Shaka was in the middle of his last season at Texas. Second, Duke and Nova aren't good comps to Marquette's pre-Shaka hires because there were multiple national championships between those two hires.
But what this really shows is that aspiring to hire sitting high major head coaches is really uncommon and difficult. That's why Shaka was such an incredible hire, and it's even more impressive how well it's worked out so far.
Fair points. I think they kind of support my position that while MU may not attract a sitting and successful high major HC, that by no means indicates that it is an unattractive job.
The origin of my thought was fans on this board arguing that essentially Wojo was the best we could get and no decent coach would take the MU job so we had to keep Wojo. IMHO, that was crazy and unsupportable.
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First, you can't count Shaka to this thread because it was started when Shaka was in the middle of his last season at Texas. Second, Duke and Nova aren't good comps to Marquette's pre-Shaka hires because there were multiple national championships between those two hires.
But what this really shows is that aspiring to hire sitting high major head coaches is really uncommon and difficult. That's why Shaka was such an incredible hire, and it's even more impressive how well it's worked out so far.
And how smart it was to not burn bridges with him after he turned it down the first time.
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Fair points. I think they kind of support my position that while MU may not attract a sitting and successful high major HC, that by no means indicates that it is an unattractive job.
The origin of my thought was fans on this board arguing that essentially Wojo was the best we could get and no decent coach would take the MU job so we had to keep Wojo. IMHO, that was crazy and unsupportable.
I'm with you there. Obviously no hire is guaranteed (bad under Majerus got worse when we let him go for Dukiet) but I agree that this was always going to be an attractive job. Even landing Wojo showed that. It didn't work out, but at the time he was probably the most prominent assistant name in the country.
But I think it was obviously time to move on and thankfully recent history has supported that.
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two four star recruits this year
Fair. Looks like two top 100 sophomores and one top 100 freshman on the roster.
But two projected starters started at mid-majors before transferring to Oklahoma. Two other projected starters played at Oregon and Pitt, but neither were stars.
That roster is 48th in Kenpom and 71st in T Rank preseason rankings. It's year three of the Moser era and Oklahoma is treading water in mediocrity.
I understand the Big 12 is a meat grinder and the SEC might be a little easier when Oklahoma switches conferences. But Moser has done nothing to convince me he would have thrived at Marquette.
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Fair. Looks like two top 100 sophomores and one top 100 freshman on the roster.
But two projected starters started at mid-majors before transferring to Oklahoma. Two other projected starters played at Oregon and Pitt, but neither were stars.
That roster is 48th in Kenpom and 71st in T Rank preseason rankings. It's year three of the Moser era and Oklahoma is treading water in mediocrity.
I understand the Big 12 is a meat grinder and the SEC might be a little easier when Oklahoma switches conferences. But Moser has done nothing to convince me he would have thrived at Marquette.
I don't disagree, but he would have been better than Wojo. I was elated when Shaka was available, but Moser would have been 'fine'... but very boring.
I think Moser will be fine at Oklahoma. He will adapt, and is obviously a knowledgeable coach. He has a good chance of turning that program into a Wisconsin clone that exists in the B12. Is that enough to make noise or keep fans interested? I'm not sure.
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I don't disagree, but he would have been better than Wojo. I was elated when Shaka was available, but Moser would have been 'fine'... but very boring.
I think Moser will be fine at Oklahoma. He will adapt, and is obviously a knowledgeable coach. He has a good chance of turning that program into a Wisconsin clone that exists in the B12. Is that enough to make noise or keep fans interested? I'm not sure.
Not sure he’ll be given that chance. Ryan made the NCAAs in year one and showed marked improvement in year two. Moser didn’t.
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Not sure he’ll be given that chance. Ryan made the NCAAs in year one and showed marked improvement in year two. Moser didn’t.
Personally, I think coaches will be given a larger leash for a couple of years while everyone adapts to the new transfer and NIL environment.
I could be wrong.
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Fair. Looks like two top 100 sophomores and one top 100 freshman on the roster.
But two projected starters started at mid-majors before transferring to Oklahoma. Two other projected starters played at Oregon and Pitt, but neither were stars.
That roster is 48th in Kenpom and 71st in T Rank preseason rankings. It's year three of the Moser era and Oklahoma is treading water in mediocrity.
I understand the Big 12 is a meat grinder and the SEC might be a little easier when Oklahoma switches conferences. But Moser has done nothing to convince me he would have thrived at Marquette.
Moser doesn’t have the benefit of lots of Wojo recruits
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Moser doesn’t have the benefit of lots of Wojo recruits
Ahhhhh, the damn ol' bare cupboard. I say 9 years to decide on Porter.
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If he makes the tournament this year he's fine I would think and I predict he'll make the tourney. Can't wait for season to start.
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The origin of my thought was fans on this board arguing that essentially Wojo was the best we could get and no decent coach would take the MU job so we had to keep Wojo. IMHO, that was crazy and unsupportable.
I honestly think you are misremembering. No one ever disputed that a top mid-major coach or high major assistant would come here. But there were posters arguing that we could poach guys like Nate Oates (after he went to Alabama), Eric Musselman, and Billy Donovan. And any time you hire a mid-major coach or top assistant, there are risks. You never know how moving up in competition or getting the big chair will impact results.
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I honestly think you are misremembering. No one ever disputed that a top mid-major coach or high major assistant would come here. But there were posters arguing that we could poach guys like Nate Oates (after he went to Alabama), Eric Musselman, and Billy Donovan. And any time you hire a mid-major coach or top assistant, there are risks. You never know how moving up in competition or getting the big chair will impact results.
I remember it very clearly. Maybe it was only one or two posters (maybe not on the board any more or trolls), but there were plenty of of posts in the flavor of "ok fine, fire Wojo but who can MU hire that is better?... No one". I responded to plenty of posts to point out that MU can not operate out of fear that no decent coach would take our job.
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I remember it very clearly. Maybe it was only one or two posters (maybe not on the board any more or trolls), but there were plenty of of posts in the flavor of "ok fine, fire Wojo but who can MU hire that is better?... No one". I responded to plenty of posts to point out that MU can not operate out of fear that no decent coach would take our job.
I'll take your word for it. I remember a of posts asking who we could hire if Wojo was fired. I don't remember anyone saying no one in response
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I'll take your word for it. I remember a of posts asking who we could hire if Wojo was fired. I don't remember anyone saying no one in response
When we had those discussions, that was always my question. Who is your replacement and it always devolved into something else.
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I honestly think you are misremembering. No one ever disputed that a top mid-major coach or high major assistant would come here. But there were posters arguing that we could poach guys like Nate Oates (after he went to Alabama), Eric Musselman, and Billy Donovan. And any time you hire a mid-major coach or top assistant, there are risks. You never know how moving up in competition or getting the big chair will impact results.
Gotta make the call.
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I remember it very clearly. Maybe it was only one or two posters (maybe not on the board any more or trolls), but there were plenty of of posts in the flavor of "ok fine, fire Wojo but who can MU hire that is better?... No one". I responded to plenty of posts to point out that MU can not operate out of fear that no decent coach would take our job.
I very much remember this being one of the projos last stand arguments.
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I very much remember this being one of the projos last stand arguments.
And this post encapsulates what I remember about that time. Anyone that didn't call for immediate termination was labeled a projo and if someone asked a question like who would you hire that will be better, it was interpreted to mean that MU would never be able to hire someone better than Wojo.
I don't remember anyone serious (so not including Cheeks) ever arguing that MU couldn't hire someone better. I do remember plenty of people asking who nojos would hire instead and pointing out that: A. We werent poaching Oates, Musselman, etc and B. There are risks hiring the hit midmajor hc or top assistant
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And this post encapsulates what I remember about that time. Anyone that didn't call for immediate termination was labeled a projo and if someone asked a question like who would you hire that will be better, it was interpreted to mean that MU would never be able to hire someone better than Wojo.
I don't remember anyone serious (so not including Cheeks) ever arguing that MU couldn't hire someone better. I do remember plenty of people asking who nojos would hire instead and pointing out that: A. We werent poaching Oates, Musselman, etc and B. There are risks hiring the hit midmajor hc or top assistant
There’s no room for nuance in those discussions. Come on, TAMU. We all know you were a slurper
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There’s no room for nuance in those discussions. Come on, TAMU. We all know you were a slurper
That last year was amazing as a NOJO since year 2. Watching people who were adamantly supporting Wojo like he was the 2nd coming of Al, slowly realize that he was in way over his head.
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That last year was amazing as a NOJO since year 2. Watching people who were adamantly supporting Wojo like he was the 2nd coming of Al, slowly realize that he was in way over his head.
I supported the Wojo extension.
I supported the Wojo exit.
"way over his head" maybe a slight over statement.
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That last year was amazing as a NOJO since year 2. Watching people who were adamantly supporting Wojo like he was the 2nd coming of Al, slowly realize that he was in way over his head.
Stop with the hyperbole. No one called him the second coming of Al. People just weren’t on board with firing a tournament coach. And the year he clearly wasn’t going to make the tournament, more people turned on him and he was fired.
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And this post encapsulates what I remember about that time. Anyone that didn't call for immediate termination was labeled a projo and if someone asked a question like who would you hire that will be better, it was interpreted to mean that MU would never be able to hire someone better than Wojo.
I don't remember anyone serious (so not including Cheeks) ever arguing that MU couldn't hire someone better. I do remember plenty of people asking who nojos would hire instead and pointing out that: A. We werent poaching Oates, Musselman, etc and B. There are risks hiring the hit midmajor hc or top assistant
The argument at the time was "rebuilds are a bitch". Or it's a COVID year to go with 5 or 7 years to judge. In Year 1, Shaka had MU into the green on our conference record (Wojo only had 2 years). Year 2 winning the BE outright. Year 3, competing for a Natty.
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I think through early April 2019, there was logic to supporting Wojo. Year one sucked, but years 2-4 were like a slower build of what Shaka has done. Tourney, successful NIT run (though yes, still NIT), then Big East title challenge. If Markus doesn't get hurt we probably win the league and get a protected seed. And were in position to return everyone.
Then the Hausers left, 2020 ended the same as 2019 (plus a pandemic), and 2021 we never built consistency. So he was rightly fired. Until the Hausers left, though, there were plenty of positive signs mixed with less than ideal but not terrible results.
The real blessing of 2021 was that it was Georgetown, and not us, that took advantage of a very nice Big East Tourney path.
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The argument at the time was "rebuilds are a bitch". Or it's a COVID year to go with 5 or 7 years to judge. In Year 1, Shaka had MU into the green on our conference record (Wojo only had 2 years). Year 2 winning the BE outright. Year 3, competing for a Natty.
Rebuilds were a bitch. Instant transfers without sitting out helped a lot. OMax and Kolek getting playing time in ‘21 laid the foundation for last year. Not having to sit out almost certainly changes the performance of that team.
Also, Wojo left him Kam, Stevie and Oso amongst others
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I remember it very clearly. Maybe it was only one or two posters (maybe not on the board any more or trolls), but there were plenty of of posts in the flavor of "ok fine, fire Wojo but who can MU hire that is better?... No one". I responded to plenty of posts to point out that MU can not operate out of fear that no decent coach would take our job.
I thought it would be unjustified and difficult to fire a coach who got his team into the NCAAT 3 out of 4 years; and it was, Marquette didn't fire him. I thought he had to go in 2021 - even called for him being fired in the middle of the season - but I feared Marquette would be unwilling to eat his buyout; I had no idea that there were bazillionaires willing to pay to send him packing. I was skeptical that we'd be able to hire anything more than a Moser type because of Marquette's long history of the kind of coach it had hired for the job; had Shaka not lost to Abilene Christian to fall into our laps, Moser would probably be our coach. And I definitely was skeptical at first about Shaka, who had rejected us once, who did a whole lot of losing in his first P6 job, and who hadn't done anything in the NCAAT in a decade. But I also agreed with your last point: Despite all of those concerns, Wojo still had to go.
Bottom line: I stuck with Wojo too long ... I was wrong about the bazillionaires ... and I'm thrilled to have been wrong about Shaka.
The next step is for him to guide a team into the second weekend and beyond. It's been too long for Marquette, and it's been even longer for Shaka.
Always fun to re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-relitigate this.
(I think I'm missing a few "re"s.)
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I do think that in the spring of 2021, Calipari would’ve listened if MU had given him a call. He was coming off a terrible season at Kentucky and has felt stale for there for a while (seems like he’s got a great recruiting class this year, though). Not that bringing him on would’ve been in any way consistent with MU’s past hiring practices or that he would’ve been the right guy for the job for any number of reasons. But he’s a big name coach who would’ve entertained coming here if the price was right.
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I do think that in the spring of 2021, Calipari would’ve listened if MU had given him a call. He was coming off a terrible season at Kentucky and has felt stale for there for a while (seems like he’s got a great recruiting class this year, though). Not that bringing him on would’ve been in any way consistent with MU’s past hiring practices or that he would’ve been the right guy for the job for any number of reasons. But he’s a big name coach who would’ve entertained coming here if the price was right.
You serious, Clark?
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Nice post 82.
Every time we drive up to Milwaukee and pass the building I remind my wife that the Michels had a big hand in bringing us Shaka, and I’m very grateful for that.
She beats me to the reminder now.
I loved Markus and I was a big Wojo fan- I just wanted Marquette to be good and the beginning of that season that ended so disastrously was a heck of a lot of fun.
Even though I was a big fan, I was happy that he was fired. I was very happy Marquette copped Shaka, even though I would have been happy with Moser as well.
I also kawkaw super loudly every time we drive past the large mural off the National exit, and I highly recommend everyone try this.
It’s a great time to be a Marquette fan.
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You serious, Clark?
Kentucky hasn’t made the FF since 2015 and their fans have been grumbling about him for a while. If he didn’t have a ridiculous contract, I could see him making a similar move to Shaka in the next few years, especially if his team falls flat this season. Old school guys like him and Pitino (who, I think, also would’ve taken the MU job in 2021) have a lot of respect for Marquette. If Cal was making in the $3-4 million range instead of twice that, I think he would’ve listened had MU called, if only to get out of Lexington before the posse got him. Not that he would’ve been in any way the right guy for the job.
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Kentucky hasn’t made the FF since 2015 and their fans have been grumbling about him for a while. If he didn’t have a ridiculous contract, I could see him making a similar move to Shaka in the next few years, especially if his team falls flat this season. Old school guys like him and Pitino (who, I think, also would’ve taken the MU job in 2021) have a lot of respect for Marquette. If Cal was making in the $3-4 million range instead of twice that, I think he would’ve listened had MU called, if only to get out of Lexington before the posse got him. Not that he would’ve been in any way the right guy for the job.
Yeah, no
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I honestly think you are misremembering. No one ever disputed that a top mid-major coach or high major assistant would come here. But there were posters arguing that we could poach guys like Nate Oates (after he went to Alabama), Eric Musselman, and Billy Donovan. And any time you hire a mid-major coach or top assistant, there are risks. You never know how moving up in competition or getting the big chair will impact results.
We had a guy who didn’t do the job. Was it possible the next guy could be even worse? Sure. But anyone who advocates keeping someone who’s proven he can’t do the job on the off chance his replacement might be worse has a loser’s mentality.
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We had a guy who didn’t do the job. Was it possible the next guy could be even worse? Sure. But anyone who advocates keeping someone who’s proven he can’t do the job on the off chance his replacement might be worse has a loser’s mentality.
"Proven he can't do the job" sums it up nicely Lenny.
I was never happy with the Wojo hire from the very beginning. He had zero experience as a head coach. Had he proved himself at a mid-major, I would have been on board. The hype from some about Marquette becoming "Duke North" was, to me, insulting- as if we needed to be rescued by Coach K's gift to Marquette. There is no question that he brought in some top-level players, with Shaka benefitting from three of them.
I was very happy being proven wrong during the one season that was so promising, but then Wojo's inability to manage egos and player conflicts-an important skill in coaching-was exposed. Although it was merely one embarrassing example of his coaching failures, his literally not knowing what the score was just after a time out near the end of the game with us up vs. Butler sums it up for me. Has anyone forgotten Wojo's instruction to foul deliberately, followed by the loss in OT?
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We had a guy who didn’t do the job. Was it possible the next guy could be even worse? Sure. But anyone who advocates keeping someone who’s proven he can’t do the job on the off chance his replacement might be worse has a loser’s mentality.
Agreed. Which is why I'm glad that after it was proven that Wojo wouldn't be able to do the job well enough, Marquette fired him at the earliest time they legitimately could. I'm also glad that they did it with a guy in mind who was likely to be better than Wojo and would have sold his left nut for the job (Moser) and even more glad they hired Shaka.
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I remember it very clearly. Maybe it was only one or two posters (maybe not on the board any more or trolls), but there were plenty of of posts in the flavor of "ok fine, fire Wojo but who can MU hire that is better?... No one". I responded to plenty of posts to point out that MU can not operate out of fear that no decent coach would take our job.
Sort of revisionist here. There were more than one or two posters offering up those Wojo excuses. At any rate, he is gone, and the excuse makers know who they are.
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I think through early April 2019, there was logic to supporting Wojo. Year one sucked, but years 2-4 were like a slower build of what Shaka has done. Tourney, successful NIT run (though yes, still NIT), then Big East title challenge. If Markus doesn't get hurt we probably win the league and get a protected seed. And were in position to return everyone.
Then the Hausers left, 2020 ended the same as 2019 (plus a pandemic), and 2021 we never built consistency. So he was rightly fired. Until the Hausers left, though, there were plenty of positive signs mixed with less than ideal but not terrible results.
The real blessing of 2021 was that it was Georgetown, and not us, that took advantage of a very nice Big East Tourney path.
Yep and then many started dumping on the Hausers, when in reality they threw the light on who Wojo really was. Truly a black period for MU bball.
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I thought it would be unjustified and difficult to fire a coach who got his team into the NCAAT 3 out of 4 years; and it was, Marquette didn't fire him. I thought he had to go in 2021 - even called for him being fired in the middle of the season - but I feared Marquette would be unwilling to eat his buyout; I had no idea that there were bazillionaires willing to pay to send him packing. I was skeptical that we'd be able to hire anything more than a Moser type because of Marquette's long history of the kind of coach it had hired for the job; had Shaka not lost to Abilene Christian to fall into our laps, Moser would probably be our coach. And I definitely was skeptical at first about Shaka, who had rejected us once, who did a whole lot of losing in his first P6 job, and who hadn't done anything in the NCAAT in a decade. But I also agreed with your last point: Despite all of those concerns, Wojo still had to go.
Bottom line: I stuck with Wojo too long ... I was wrong about the bazillionaires ... and I'm thrilled to have been wrong about Shaka.
The next step is for him to guide a team into the second weekend and beyond. It's been too long for Marquette, and it's been even longer for Shaka.
Well said.
Honestly, there's not much here about Wojo that I couldn't say of myself. The consecutive late-season collapses were what did it for me.
I think I was bit less skeptical about Shaka, but his record at Texas was somewhat of a mixed bag and anyone reviewing that fairly would have to at least understand why there could be some amount of skepticism.
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Rebuilds were a bitch. Instant transfers without sitting out helped a lot. OMax and Kolek getting playing time in ‘21 laid the foundation for last year. Not having to sit out almost certainly changes the performance of that team.
Also, Wojo left him Kam, Stevie and Oso amongst others
Yeah, and Buzz left a lot more higher rated recruits for Wojo, but Projos insisted just how empty the cupboard was when Wojo arrived - which was always pure comedy. Wojo "led" that first-year squad to a 4-14 Big East performance and 13-19 overall record. Year 1 was all I needed to see the guy was clueless as a head coach.
Oso played a whopping total of 38 minutes under Wojo year 1. Had Kam and Stevie been coached by Wojo, chances are high they wouldn't have evolved on the same trajectory as they have under Shaka.
End of the day hanging onto Wojo as long as they did ultimately allowed serendipity to happen and for Shaka to be ready to bolt Texas after the ACU loss. That's about all one can say about the benefits of holding onto Wojo for 7 years.
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Yeah, and Buzz left a lot more higher rated recruits for Wojo, but Projos insisted just how empty the cupboard was when Wojo arrived - which was always pure comedy. Wojo "led" that first-year squad to a 4-14 Big East performance and 13-19 overall record. Year 1 was all I needed to see the guy was clueless as a head coach.
Oso played a whopping total of 38 minutes under Wojo year 1. Had Kam and Stevie been coached by Wojo, chances are high they wouldn't have evolved on the same trajectory as they have under Shaka.
End of the day hanging onto Wojo as long as they did ultimately allowed serendipity to happen and for Shaka to be ready to bolt Texas after the ACU loss. That's about all one can say about the benefits of holding onto Wojo for 7 years.
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Yeah, and Buzz left a lot more higher rated recruits for Wojo, but Projos insisted just how empty the cupboard was when Wojo arrived - which was always pure comedy.
Would you rather have Kam Jones, Stevie Mitchell, and Oso Ighodaro? Or Jajuan Johnson, Duane Wilson, and Luke Fischer? Cause I know which one I would rather have. (To be clear, this has nothing to do with defending Wojo or discrediting Shaka, just commenting on the idea that we should be valuing high school rankings over actual performance at the college level)
Oso played a whopping total of 38 minutes under Wojo year 1. Had Kam and Stevie been coached by Wojo, chances are high they wouldn't have evolved on the same trajectory as they have under Shaka.
End of the day hanging onto Wojo as long as they did ultimately allowed serendipity to happen and for Shaka to be ready to bolt Texas after the ACU loss. That's about all one can say about the benefits of holding onto Wojo for 7 years.
Agreed with all this. I'm very glad we have Shaka.
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Would you rather have Kam Jones, Stevie Mitchell, and Oso Ighodaro? Or Jajuan Johnson, Duane Wilson, and Luke Fischer? Cause I know which one I would rather have. (To be clear, this has nothing to do with defending Wojo or discrediting Shaka, just commenting on the idea that we should be valuing high school rankings over actual performance at the college level)
Agreed with all this. I'm very glad we have Shaka.
I doesn't really matter, because the Buzz guys you mention had the disservice of having to play for an idiot, and the guys Wojo recruited get to play for a far better coach.
You love to exclude Deonte Burton from these discussions, which is always funny. And I suspect Duane, JuJuan and Deonte would give Stevie, Kam and Oso all they could handle if you lined them up 3 on 3. Wojo of course had a cupboard with Luke Fischer, Steve Taylor, Juan Anderson and Sandy Cohen in addition to the aforementioned 3, but, of course he inherited an empty cupboard. LMAO.
Bottom line is the guy couldn't coach for crap and thats why we sucked Year 1, and why good/capable players transferred out under him. It wasn't for lack of talent in the program when he arrived.
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Kam, Stevie, and Oso would absolutely work Duane, Jajuan, and Deonte. Like, how is this even a question?
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I doesn't really matter, because the Buzz guys you mention had the disservice of having to play for an idiot, and the guys Wojo recruited get to play for a far better coach.
You love to exclude Deonte Burton from these discussions, which is always funny. And I suspect Duane, JuJuan and Deonte would give Stevie, Kam and Oso all they could handle if you lined them up 3 on 3. Wojo of course had a cupboard with Luke Fischer, Steve Taylor, Juan Anderson and Sandy Cohen in addition to the aforementioned 3, but, of course he inherited an empty cupboard. LMAO.
Bottom line is the guy couldn't coach for crap and thats why we sucked Year 1, and why good/capable players transferred out under him. It wasn't for lack of talent in the program when he arrived.
Deonte's mother died and transferred as result. That has been confirmed by multiple sources including Deonte himself. I wouldn't hold his transfer against any coach. And even if I did include him, I would still take Kam, Stevie, and Oso...despite one being a trio of top 50 recruits and the other being a trio of 75-150 rated recruits.
Steve Taylor, Juan Anderson, and Sandy Cohen were all mid-major level players in college. Teve played like crap for two years under Buzz and Juan played like crap for three years under Buzz.
Again, this isn't about Wojo or Shaka. Just the idea that we should judge a player's talent on their high school ranking...instead of multiple years of actual college performance.
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Kam, Stevie, and Oso would absolutely work Duane, Jajuan, and Deonte. Like, how is this even a question?
Obviously because they were rated higher in high school! How they actually performed in college is irrelevant in comparison.
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I doesn't really matter, because the Buzz guys you mention had the disservice of having to play for an idiot, and the guys Wojo recruited get to play for a far better coach.
You love to exclude Deonte Burton from these discussions, which is always funny. And I suspect Duane, JuJuan and Deonte would give Stevie, Kam and Oso all they could handle if you lined them up 3 on 3. Wojo of course had a cupboard with Luke Fischer, Steve Taylor, Juan Anderson and Sandy Cohen in addition to the aforementioned 3, but, of course he inherited an empty cupboard. LMAO.
Bottom line is the guy couldn't coach for crap and thats why we sucked Year 1, and why good/capable players transferred out under him. It wasn't for lack of talent in the program when he arrived.
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Keeping it very simple - the amount of growth I’ve seen from kam, Stevie and oso is incredible. I would have a very hard time seeing any of them make that sort of progress under the previous coach given how little he got out of several of his players during his regime.
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Kam, Stevie, and Oso would absolutely work Duane, Jajuan, and Deonte. Like, how is this even a question?
Since it’s a hypothetical, I’ll go a step further. The only “real” way to compare the two groups would be to look at them as when they showed up to MU, before any coaching/college development. In that case, I’m taking Deonte, Jajuan, and Duane (remember, pre injury). The other group is 1000% the better college group but they have the benefit of playing for a an actual coach with an actual development program. The other guys got screwed by playing for Wojo
But as high school graduates/summer of college freshman. Give me the Buzz guys. Deonte could matchup and potentially own a skinny, unskilled Oso, the Memphis boys would be a good battle, and I think Duane was a little further along that Stevie at that time.
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Deonte's mother died and transferred as result. That has been confirmed by multiple sources including Deonte himself. I wouldn't hold his transfer against any coach. And even if I did include him, I would still take Kam, Stevie, and Oso...despite one being a trio of top 50 recruits and the other being a trio of 75-150 rated recruits.
Steve Taylor, Juan Anderson, and Sandy Cohen were all mid-major level players in college. Teve played like crap for two years under Buzz and Juan played like crap for three years under Buzz.
Again, this isn't about Wojo or Shaka. Just the idea that we should judge a player's talent on their high school ranking...instead of multiple years of actual college performance.
Ners, who recently accused others of being "argumentative," will die 10,000 times on the hill of Dawson, Taylor, Cohen and Anderson being college superstars that Wojo effed up, and of Burton actually wanting to stay at Marquette for 4 years but bolting because he couldn't stand to spend one more minute around Wojo.
For some reason, Nrs desperately needs that hill, so please stop trying to take it away from him by citing stoopid stuff like facts.
Keeping it very simple - the amount of growth I’ve seen from kam, Stevie and oso is incredible. I would have a very hard time seeing any of them make that sort of progress under the previous coach given how little he got out of several of his players during his regime.
Has anybody said or even suggested otherwise? If so, I've missed it. All some Scoopers have said is that Wojo and his assistants brought Kam, Stevie and Oso to Marquette. Which of course is true. But those who want to re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-relitigate "Wojo sucks" until the day they die hate that.
Me? I'm glad Wojo brought them to Marquette, I'm glad Shaka convinced them to stay, and I'm glad Shaka and his assistants have gotten the most out of them.
I hope that take isn't too outlandish.
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Ners, who recently accused others of being "argumentative," will die 10,000 times on the hill of Dawson, Taylor, Cohen and Anderson being college superstars that Wojo effed up, and of Burton actually wanting to stay at Marquette for 4 years but bolting because he couldn't stand to spend one more minute around Wojo.
For some reason, Nrs desperately needs that hill, so please stop trying to take it away from him by citing stoopid stuff like facts.
Has anybody said or even suggested otherwise? If so, I've missed it. All some Scoopers have said is that Wojo and his assistants brought Kam, Stevie and Oso to Marquette. Which of course is true. But those who want to re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-relitigate "Wojo sucks" until the day they die hate that.
Me? I'm glad Wojo brought them to Marquette, I'm glad Shaka convinced them to stay, and I'm glad Shaka and his assistants have gotten the most out of them.
I hope that take isn't too outlandish.
Juan Anderson’s mixtape said it like four posts ago…
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Deonte's mother died and transferred as result. That has been confirmed by multiple sources including Deonte himself. I wouldn't hold his transfer against any coach. And even if I did include him, I would still take Kam, Stevie, and Oso...despite one being a trio of top 50 recruits and the other being a trio of 75-150 rated recruits.
I was sad Deonte left. The reality is that he played for us in the first 8 games of the season, on a bad team. He didn’t start, and only hit 20 minutes once.
After losing at home to uw-Madison, 49-38, in a game where he logged 11 minutes, that was it.
I do put blame on the staff
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Why's everybody leaving Justin out of the conversation but keeping Juan and Steve in? It's Justin, Greg, then Oso, Steve, Kam vs Juan, Steve, Sandy, JJJ, Luke, Duane, Deonte.
Edit: ok Greg wasn't a top 100 guy so you can forget him like Derrick.
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"Wojo's such an idiot he only played Oso 38 minutes."
Also: "Oso wouldn't have had a prayer if he had to play against the absolute dominant college basketball players JJJ, Luke Fischer, and Duane Wilson. Add in Steve Taylor, Sandy Cohen, and John Dawson and Oso would've become as valuable as Yousapha Mboa!"
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Juan Anderson’s mixtape said it like four posts ago…
False.
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I said it at the time (skewered on Scoop) and I will say it again: Wojo's death knell to me came when his only add that first year was Carlino, and he kept guys that in short order were gone and were never going to fit his finesse Duke systems.
Taylor, Burton, Dawson, Mayo, Cohen were wasted roster spots. Wojo even wasted a long time on Nick Noskowiak. Luke and Duane were not great fits either but they already burned their redshirts (top rated recruits who ended up as back-ups).
Wojo wasted too much time getting his system guys in here. It was a sign of a struggling first time head coach. Contrast that to Shaka.
Paint Touches did a nice article on this a couple of years back.
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I said it at the time (skewered on Scoop) and I will say it again: Wojo's death knell to me came when his only add that first year was Carlino, and he kept guys that in short order were gone and were never going to fit his finesse Duke systems.
Taylor, Burton, Dawson, Mayo, Cohen were wasted roster spots. Wojo even wasted a long time on Nick Noskowiak. Luke and Duane were not great fits either but they already burned their redshirts (top rated recruits who ended up as back-ups).
Wojo wasted too much time getting his system guys in here. It was a sign of a struggling first time head coach. Contrast that to Shaka.
Paint Touches did a nice article on this a couple of years back.
Even if the guys he got how many were fits for his ideal system? Henry, the Hausers and Markus were probably the only guys that were fits maybe Garcia or Carton but the later two were head cases in addition to Joey. Honestly seems like Wojo was looking for locker room issues.
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I’m not sure Wojo really had a system. Also, Shaka had a much easier time doing that due to immediate eligibility. It’s not really an apples to apples.
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I said many times that Wojo did not have a system and that was my biggest problem with him. Yes, he wanted to run the Duke offense (per TAMU years ago) but he did not have the players to the fit the system. That is the #1 reason why I thought he had no chance for long term success.
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Yeah, and Buzz left a lot more higher rated recruits for Wojo, but Projos insisted just how empty the cupboard was when Wojo arrived - which was always pure comedy. Wojo "led" that first-year squad to a 4-14 Big East performance and 13-19 overall record. Year 1 was all I needed to see the guy was clueless as a head coach.
Oso played a whopping total of 38 minutes under Wojo year 1. Had Kam and Stevie been coached by Wojo, chances are high they wouldn't have evolved on the same trajectory as they have under Shaka.
End of the day hanging onto Wojo as long as they did ultimately allowed serendipity to happen and for Shaka to be ready to bolt Texas after the ACU loss. That's about all one can say about the benefits of holding onto Wojo for 7 years.
Not posting about this remains free.
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False.
Thanks for having my back.
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I said many times that Wojo did not have a system and that was my biggest problem with him. Yes, he wanted to run the Duke offense (per TAMU years ago) but he did not have the players to the fit the system. That is the #1 reason why I thought he had no chance for long term success.
I don't know that I agree. For many years, MU had one of the top offenses in the country.
Defensively, I would agree. That was a rough road.
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Dr. B
You may be right, and I am thankful that MU brought in Shaka. IMO, he appears to have a firm system in place and knows the type of player that fit that system.
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It's hard to tell how much was system vs. having incredible shooting ability on those Wojo teams.
In a similar way, we'll find out after TK and Oso are gone, how much of this elite offense was propped up by those guys' vision and BB IQ. There are sound offensive principles behind it, but so much of it is having guys make the right reads.
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Thanks for having my back.
I think it’s disengnuiois to say “Kam, Stevie, and Oso would absolutely work Duane, Jajuan, and Deonte” then agreeing with captain middle man 82 while he takes a completely neutral position using two paragraphs to make a benign point.
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It's hard to tell how much was system vs. having incredible shooting ability on those Wojo teams.
In a similar way, we'll find out after TK and Oso are gone, how much of this elite offense was propped up by those guys' vision and BB IQ. There are sound offensive principles behind it, but so much of it is having guys make the right reads.
I’m bullish on the guys they have being able to replace Kolek and Oso but I sure hope hoops heads appreciate what is here right now with those two
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I think it’s disengnuiois to say “Kam, Stevie, and Oso would absolutely work Duane, Jajuan, and Deonte” then agreeing with captain middle man 82 while he takes a completely neutral position using two paragraphs to make a benign point.
Of course you think that. You like to argue for the sake of arguing.
JAM simply didn't say what you claimed he did. That's a fact. You can choose to refuse to accept a fact as a fact and continue to argue, though. Freedom and all.
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Of course you think that. You like to argue for the sake of arguing.
JAM simply didn't say what you claimed he did. That's a fact. You can choose to refuse to accept a fact as a fact and continue to argue, though. Freedom and all.
I was being diplomatic with my oringal post however I’ll say it much more plainly here. Wojo stunk at player development. As bad as Wojo was, Shaka is the complete opposite. Mixtape’s original hypothetical is what spurred me to post and I think he’s wildly incorrect. Duane was a completely different player pre injury and he’s one of my all time what if players for MU. He would destroy a freshman Stevie. Deonte came in as a man and was absolutely ready to play day 1. JJJ was a top 30 player out of high school. I don’t think it’s very controversial to say the day 1’s on campus for all of the above favor Deonte, Duane and JJJ.
It's a message board buddy. We're here for the takes and hypotheticals (especially in the off season).
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I was being diplomatic with my oringal post however I’ll say it much more plainly here. Wojo stunk at player development. As bad as Wojo was, Shaka is the complete opposite. Mixtape’s original hypothetical is what spurred me to post and I think he’s wildly incorrect. Duane was a completely different player pre injury and he’s one of my all time what if players for MU. He would destroy a freshman Stevie. Deonte came in as a man and was absolutely ready to play day 1. JJJ was a top 30 player out of high school. I don’t think it’s very controversial to say the day 1’s on campus for all of the above favor Deonte, Duane and JJJ.
It's a message board buddy. We're here for the takes and hypotheticals (especially in the off season).
I never said anything about day 1 on campus. You are debating ghosts.
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I never said anything about day 1 on campus. You are debating ghosts.
I was simply going off swoop em’s hypothetical
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I was simply going off swoop em’s hypothetical
Sorry, thought I was replying to Swoop 'em.
But again, I never said anything about day 1 on campus.
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Sorry, thought I was replying to Swoop 'em.
But again, I never said anything about day 1 on campus.
No worries all good brotha
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It's great being part of a Scoop kumbaya moment.
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Sorry, thought I was replying to Swoop 'em.
But again, I never said anything about day 1 on campus.
I know. I did. And made it pretty clear that I was making a hypothetical even more hypothetical
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I’m bullish on the guys they have being able to replace Kolek and Oso but I sure hope hoops heads appreciate what is here right now with those two
Yes.
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Yes.
Oso yes. TK I think is far tougher to replace.
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Oso yes. TK I think is far tougher to replace.
I think TK will be back. Total guess but I think he comes back. Oso is gone
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I think TK will be back. Total guess but I think he comes back. Oso is gone
TK will be 23 years of age in March 2024. I do not think he comes back. He will be playing professionally for money somewhere in the world.
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TK will be 23 years of age in March 2024. I do not think he comes back. He will be playing professionally for money somewhere in the world.
Yeah as someone who turned 23 at MU I can say you feel ancient walking around campus cannot imagine him wanting to come back to turn 24 unless he's A) dating someone or B) is going for an MBA
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TK will be 23 years of age in March 2024. I do not think he comes back. He will be playing professionally for money somewhere in the world.
Counterpoint, he can make a lot of money playing here next season.
I would not be surprised either way. I'm expecting him to be gone, but if he's not a surefire draft pick, I could see him running it back. Especially if we fall short in the tourney.
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Counterpoint, he can make a lot of money playing here next season.
I would not be surprised either way. I'm expecting him to be gone, but if he's not a surefire draft pick, I could see him running it back. Especially if we fall short in the tourney.
Yeah my expectations are that he will ultimately be gone(a lot to due with optimism for this year) but I find it a bit odd so many people think its clear cut.
If he comes back another year hes going to continue to get paid a lot. And hes no guarantee to show up on draft boards.