MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Not A Serious Person on January 04, 2020, 11:55:09 PM
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Lundari has 8 Big East teams in the Tourney (MU #8 seed). St. Johns is among "next four out." Only Providence is not in the mix.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology
The all-time percentage record for a conference was the Big East in 1991 when 7 of 9 teams received bids (78%). The all-time record for most bids was also the Big East in 2011 with 11 teams (16 team conference).
The most bids the "new" Big East received was 2017 with 7 (70%)
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https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/bracketology/
Marquette as a 6 playing virginia
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https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/bracketology/
Marquette as a 6 playing virginia
Gimme some of that. Would love to see Markus and squad light up Virginia right in front of Sam while he's helpless to do anything
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Gimme some of that. Would love to see Markus and squad light up Virginia right in front of Sam while he's helpless to do anything
(https://media.giphy.com/media/S3Ot3hZ5bcy8o/giphy.gif)
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Gimme some of that. Would love to see Markus and squad light up Virginia right in front of Sam while he's helpless to do anything
I don't have much ill will towards Sam...
...but a chance to show up Joey and Michigan State would be very nice
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I don't have much ill will towards Sam...
...but a chance to show up Joey and Michigan State would be very nice
Between the two I have more to Sam than Joey. Joey was a fling that had its ups and downs. Sam was a long term relationship that went up in flames. Between the two I'd much prefer to show up the later more than the former.
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Gimme some of that. Would love to see Markus and squad light up Virginia right in front of Sam while he's helpless to do anything
Careful what you wish for.
You honestly believe Wojo would have a prayer in figuring out how to crack Bennett’s stingy defense and “light up” UVA?!? I think over under MU points in that matchup would be about 40.
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Careful what you wish for.
You honestly believe Wojo would have a prayer in figuring out how to crack Bennett’s stingy defense and “light up” UVA?!? I think over under MU points in that matchup would be about 40.
This years Virginia? Yeah I believe he could. Well Markus and company actually.
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This years Virginia? Yeah I believe he could. Well Markus and company actually.
Sure, because we’ve been so impressive and Wojo has such an impressive history, especially in the tournament. Bennett coaches circles around Wojo
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We talking about this same UVA defense that gave up 69 to a Purdue team we held to 55? Can't take a dump on Koby right now so you're gonna find somewhere else to blow smoke, and a hypothetical match-up that will in all likelihood never happen is the perfect place. What a clutch move.
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Sure, because we’ve been so impressive and Wojo has such an impressive history, especially in the tournament. Bennett coaches circles around Wojo
Hahah. It almost wouldn't matter. It would be completely on Markus. If he goes off Virginia wouldn't be able to keep up. If he is off, or anything less than great, it could be pretty ugly.
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Careful what you wish for.
You honestly believe Wojo would have a prayer in figuring out how to crack Bennett’s stingy defense and “light up” UVA?!? I think over under MU points in that matchup would be about 40.
Nothing I have to say that others haven't said in their responses. But if we lose, bummer we lost to the defending champs if we win, I get my wish and hope the team all send Sam middle finger emojis
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Sure, because we’ve been so impressive and Wojo has such an impressive history, especially in the tournament. Bennett coaches circles around Wojo
I'm just saying, Bennett was the number 1 overall seed and lost to a 16.
Just saying.
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I'm just saying, Bennett was the number 1 overall seed and lost to a 16.
He also lost by 29 points to Purdue just a few weeks ago.
Excellent coach, but hardly invincible. Nobody is close to invincible this season.
Having said all that, I doubt Virginia/Bennett would be quaking in their boots at the prospects of facing Marquette/Wojo. We haven't earned that fear factor yet.
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Careful what you wish for.
You honestly believe Wojo would have a prayer in figuring out how to crack Bennett’s stingy defense and “light up” UVA?!? I think over under MU points in that matchup would be about 40.
He somehow had a clue to overcome AP Coach the decade, Jay Wright multiple times last few years.
It would be a tough assignment, but let’s not make it more than it is.
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Sure, because we’ve been so impressive and Wojo has such an impressive history, especially in the tournament. Bennett coaches circles around Wojo
Do you also believe that Jay Wright coaches circles around Wojo? Or is Bennett a different type coach?
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Do you also believe that Jay Wright coaches circles around Wojo? Or is Bennett a different type coach?
Gentlemen. Arguing about 'Bracketology' in January? Or ever? What's next "Power Rankings"? Love your passion for MU hoops but Google 'click bait'.
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Gentlemen. Arguing about 'Bracketology' in January? Or ever? What's next "Power Rankings"? Love your passion for MU hoops but Google 'click bait'.
It's a lot better than most of the ridiculous stuff people argue about on here.
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It's a lot better than most of the ridiculous stuff people argue about on here.
Bingo.
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology
Lunardi has us as a 6, Bracketmatrix still has us as a 7 although not all have been updated since the Nova win, and some haven't been updated since before conference play started.
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This season is just so difficult not only for the bubble but for seeding after the top 20 or so teams.
Lunardi had Marquette as a 6 seed prior to the loss to Providence.
The teams on the 7 and 8 line were Creighton, Iowa, Texas Tech, Virginia, Wisconsin, Xavier, Colorado, and Arkansas.
Since Tuesday, those teams are 0-7, and some of those were bad losses. Virginia lost to BC. Wisconsin took a home loss. Iowa lost to Nebraska. Xavier took a home loss. Creighton took a home loss. Texas Tech took a home loss (albeit to top 5 Baylor)
The only team that didn't play was Colorado, and their most recent game was a bad home loss to Oregon State on Sunday.
All this to say that MU's loss to PC was bad but it's happening all over the country. There aren't many good teams. This season is a nightmare for separating resumes.
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This season is just so difficult not only for the bubble but for seeding after the top 20 or so teams.
Lunardi had Marquette as a 6 seed prior to the loss to Providence.
The teams on the 7 and 8 line were Creighton, Iowa, Texas Tech, Virginia, Wisconsin, Xavier, Colorado, and Arkansas.
Since Tuesday, those teams are 0-7, and some of those were bad losses. Virginia lost to BC. Wisconsin took a home loss. Iowa lost to Nebraska. Xavier took a home loss. Creighton took a home loss. Texas Tech took a home loss (albeit to top 5 Baylor)
The only team that didn't play was Colorado, and their most recent game was a bad home loss to Oregon State on Sunday.
All this to say that MU's loss to PC was bad but it's happening all over the country. There aren't many good teams. This season is a nightmare for separating resumes.
I feel like in general, the teams on the top four lines are pretty good. Once I get past there, it's really tough to separate teams. The difference between a 5 or 6 seed and the first teams out is pretty thin.
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This season is just so difficult not only for the bubble but for seeding after the top 20 or so teams.
Lunardi had Marquette as a 6 seed prior to the loss to Providence.
The teams on the 7 and 8 line were Creighton, Iowa, Texas Tech, Virginia, Wisconsin, Xavier, Colorado, and Arkansas.
Since Tuesday, those teams are 0-7, and some of those were bad losses. Virginia lost to BC. Wisconsin took a home loss. Iowa lost to Nebraska. Xavier took a home loss. Creighton took a home loss. Texas Tech took a home loss (albeit to top 5 Baylor)
The only team that didn't play was Colorado, and their most recent game was a bad home loss to Oregon State on Sunday.
All this to say that MU's loss to PC was bad but it's happening all over the country. There aren't many good teams. This season is a nightmare for separating resumes.
Conference Tourneys will be much more significant in their meaning towards seeding if this keeps up. 1 extra conf. tourney win could bump you up several lines.
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Conference Tourneys will be much more significant in their meaning towards seeding if this keeps up. 1 extra conf. tourney win could bump you up several lines.
Highly, highly unlikely. The Selection Committee usually has the bulk of seeding done by the first or second day of the conference tournaments. After that, results in the conference tournaments are really only contingencies for bid thieves and such. Unless you win the tourney outright, those games are the least influential in terms of seeding and will rarely move seeds. It's too difficult to retool on the fly because moving a team even one seed line can force the Committee to change the destinations of sometimes 10+ other already placed teams.
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Highly, highly unlikely. The Selection Committee usually has the bulk of seeding done by the first or second day of the conference tournaments. After that, results in the conference tournaments are really only contingencies for bid thieves and such. Unless you win the tourney outright, those games are the least influential in terms of seeding and will rarely move seeds. It's too difficult to retool on the fly because moving a team even one seed line can force the Committee to change the destinations of sometimes 10+ other already placed teams.
Key word is usually. I'd imagine if you had a dozen+ teams lumped together they'd extend the process further than prior years. Or they could have several brackets setup already as templates - I imagine this is done by computer so they literally could prepare for this right off the bat.
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Key word is usually. I'd imagine if you had a dozen+ teams lumped together they'd extend the process further than prior years. Or they could have several brackets setup already as templates - I imagine this is done by computer so they literally could prepare for this right off the bat.
It would basically mean completely undoing what they currently do and reinventing the wheel. They don't seed by computer templates, they seed manually. They talk about that every year and how that's the hardest part to do. Considering the upheaval on the Selection Committee last year led to exactly zero changes in how they managed selection and seeding, and there isn't nearly such upheaval this year, I would put the odds of it happening somewhere between slim and none. If any change were in the offing, we would have seen it in 2019 when the power balance shifted from high-majors to non-power conferences.
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It would basically mean completely undoing what they currently do and reinventing the wheel. They don't seed by computer templates, they seed manually. They talk about that every year and how that's the hardest part to do. Considering the upheaval on the Selection Committee last year led to exactly zero changes in how they managed selection and seeding, and there isn't nearly such upheaval this year, I would put the odds of it happening somewhere between slim and none. If any change were in the offing, we would have seen it in 2019 when the power balance shifted from high-majors to non-power conferences.
And if they keep it manual, with a large pool of equal teams, there's going to be a lot of issues - especially if some of those teams separate themselves in a conf. tourney.
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And if they keep it manual, with a large pool of equal teams, there's going to be a lot of issues - especially if some of those teams separate themselves in a conf. tourney.
Nah, they'll just ignore the conference tournaments unless a team wins the autobid.
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Nah, they'll just ignore the conference tournaments unless a team wins the autobid.
I mean, it wouldn't surprise me if the NCAA was stuck in their ways on this.......
but it could be easily rectified by just having computer software programmed to account for any significant changes in a teams fortune come conf tourney time.
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Was messing around with T Rank's teamcast and it has Marquette in the NCAA tournament if they finish 17-13 (7-11)
Now, I doubt that's the case. But seems that MU would have a legit shot at 8-10 in conference.
http://barttorvik.com/teamcast.php?rank=41&team=Marquette&year=2020&bracket=1&Loyola_MDMarquette11-5=A&PurdueMarquette11-13=A&MarquetteWisconsin11-17=A&Robert_MorrisMarquette11-23=A&DavidsonMarquette11-28=A&USCMarquette11-29=A&MarylandMarquette12-1=A&JacksonvilleMarquette12-4=A&MarquetteKansas_St_12-7=A&Grambling_St_Marquette12-17=A&North_Dakota_St_Marquette12-20=A&Central_ArkansasMarquette12-28=A&MarquetteCreighton1-1=A&VillanovaMarquette1-4=A&ProvidenceMarquette1-7=A&MarquetteSeton_Hall1-11=L&XavierMarquette1-15=W&MarquetteGeorgetown1-18=W&St__John_sMarquette1-21=W&MarquetteButler1-24=L&MarquetteXavier1-29=L&DePaulMarquette2-1=W&ButlerMarquette2-9=L&MarquetteVillanova2-12=L&CreightonMarquette2-18=W&MarquetteProvidence2-22=L&GeorgetownMarquette2-26=W&Seton_HallMarquette2-29=L&MarquetteDePaul3-3=L&MarquetteSt__John_s3-7=L&x1_type=&x1_loc=&x1_team=&x1_res=&x2_type=&x2_loc=&x2_team=&x2_res=&x3_type=&x3_loc=&x3_team=&x3_res=&x4_type=&x4_loc=&x4_team=&x4_res=&x5_type=&x5_loc=&x5_team=&x5_res=
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I mean, it wouldn't surprise me if the NCAA was stuck in their ways on this.......
but it could be easily rectified by just having computer software programmed to account for any significant changes in a teams fortune come conf tourney time.
Honestly, I think it's harder than that. So many of the seeding rules end up conflicting with each other and so much comes down to judgment calls that it would tie programmers in knots. Last year, Michigan State played Minnesota in the second round, which technically violated one of the rules that would have been written into any program. Except I had that same matchup scripted in my last bracket because there was no way to put Minnesota anywhere else, even moving them up or down a line, without running into at least one and usually more than one seeding rule violation. In addition to the NCAA's moving at a glacial pace when it comes to change, the seeding rules would be really hard to just write into a program because so many of them conflict with each other.
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Was messing around with T Rank's teamcast and it has Marquette in the NCAA tournament if they finish 17-13 (7-11)
Now, I doubt that's the case. But seems that MU would have a legit shot at 8-10 in conference.
They'll definitely have a shot at 8-10. I'd prefer not to test the theory, but there are not very many good teams.
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Honestly, I think it's harder than that. So many of the seeding rules end up conflicting with each other and so much comes down to judgment calls that it would tie programmers in knots. Last year, Michigan State played Minnesota in the second round, which technically violated one of the rules that would have been written into any program. Except I had that same matchup scripted in my last bracket because there was no way to put Minnesota anywhere else, even moving them up or down a line, without running into at least one and usually more than one seeding rule violation. In addition to the NCAA's moving at a glacial pace when it comes to change, the seeding rules would be really hard to just write into a program because so many of them conflict with each other.
Well, if the NCAA doesn't prolong their seeding process this year, it's going to be very interesting especially if a projected 7th or 8th seed wins a conf tourney - which is very possible this year.
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Gimme some of that. Would love to see Markus and squad light up Virginia right in front of Sam while he's helpless to do anything
Of course there is always the possibility that Virginia lights up MU 50-35 in front of Wojo while he as usual, is helpless to do anything even though he is the head coach. Be care ful what you wish for.
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Of course there is always the possibility that Virginia lights up MU 50-35 in front of Wojo while he as usual, is helpless to do anything even though he is the head coach. Be care ful what you wish for.
If MU scores 35 vs. Virginia that's only because Virginia took their foot off the gas pedal. MU doesn't have a prayer of shooting 40%+ against them.
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Of course there is always the possibility that Virginia lights up MU 50-35 in front of Wojo while he as usual, is helpless to do anything even though he is the head coach. Be care ful what you wish for.
Has this guy ever said anything remotely positive? Do you even want them to win
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Has this guy ever said anything remotely positive? Do you even want them to win
I've said a few positive things. I'm a classic red ass like Bill Belichick. We can always do better.
The Wojo situation is different though. In terms of MU's history, we're behind the mean here, barely treading water. The Trumpets of Change and Discord must be sounded repeatedly until the song and dance man is sent back to delint Coach K's suit just before game time.
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They'll definitely have a shot at 8-10. I'd prefer not to test the theory, but there are not very many good teams.
Yeah, I'm setting 9-9 as my comfort threshold.
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Yeah, I'm setting 9-9 as my comfort threshold.
I hope you are right my MU brother. This would be great.
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Lundari's last update (Jan 7) has MU #6
BE has 6 teams
But in the first four out he has, Georgetown, Depaul and St. Johns
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Lundari's last update (Jan 7) has MU #6
BE has 6 teams
But in the first four out he has, Georgetown, Depaul and St. Johns
Updated today. MU a 7.
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I've said a few positive things. I'm a classic red ass like Bill Belichick. We can always do better.
The Wojo situation is different though. In terms of MU's history, we're behind the mean here, barely treading water. The Trumpets of Change and Discord must be sounded repeatedly until the song and dance man is sent back to delint Coach K's suit just before game time.
He was quoting willie so I have to assume you're the slightly less crazy alter ego of willie's
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Six Big East Teams IN
First Four Out
Illinois
Georgetown
Oklahoma State
DePaul
Next Four Out
USC
Georgia
Utah State
St. John's
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Bracketville updated. MU is the top 7 seed
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I have always wondered, especially in this day and age of technology why someone can't write a sophisticated enough program that selects and seeds the teams based on whatever criteria is inputted. To me, that would be the "cleanest" way of doing it. Then no one can complain about biases etc. That would also let Coaches know in advance, what exactly they need to do to get in. The computer program requires you to have X X and X...do that and you will be in.
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I have always wondered, especially in this day and age of technology why someone can't write a sophisticated enough program that selects and seeds the teams based on whatever criteria is inputted. To me, that would be the "cleanest" way of doing it. Then no one can complain about biases etc. That would also let Coaches know in advance, what exactly they need to do to get in. The computer program requires you to have X X and X...do that and you will be in.
Its easy, just keep winning as much as possible with a decent schedule.
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DeCourcy is doing bracketology now for Fox for some reason. MU a 10 seed and the last of six BE teams in.
Team Bubble Watch
https://mobile.twitter.com/CBBonFOX/status/1215694302912737280/photo/1
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DeCourcy is doing bracketology now for Fox for some reason. MU a 10 seed and the last of six BE teams in.
Team Bubble Watch
https://mobile.twitter.com/CBBonFOX/status/1215694302912737280/photo/1
So many good bracketologists to choose from and Fox gives the job to Schwab and then DeCourcy, both of whom have never done it.
There's lists and lists compiled of people who have blogs and are very good at it. Give one of them an opportunity.
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So many good bracketologists to choose from and Fox gives the job to Schwab and then DeCourcy, both of whom have never done it.
There's lists and lists compiled of people who have blogs and are very good at it. Give one of them an opportunity.
Brew does a better job and his educational background was communications.
Mike is a nice guy if you ever met him. Will share beers with you. And, he is a hall of fame writer who I like a lot. But, you can tell he isn't comfortable doing the stats thing.
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DeCourcy is doing bracketology now for Fox for some reason. MU a 10 seed and the last of six BE teams in.
Team Bubble Watch
https://mobile.twitter.com/CBBonFOX/status/1215694302912737280/photo/1
I wouldn't say that's too far off.
Marquette is a decent team with a question mark. Same could be said for a lot of teams right now.
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So many good bracketologists to choose from and Fox gives the job to Schwab and then DeCourcy, both of whom have never done it.
There's lists and lists compiled of people who have blogs and are very good at it. Give one of them an opportunity.
DeCourcy knows far more about college hoops than Schwab tho.
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DeCourcy knows far more about college hoops than Schwab tho.
For sure. Definitely has more promise.
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But Bracketology is really the science of knowing what the committee has done in the past and trying to use that information to predict what will happen in the current season. It’s Studying resumes and metrics and translating that to bids and seed lines.
He only had Butler as a 3 seed and justified it by saying they hadn’t beaten an elite team ....yet by metrics and resume they are. clearly worthy of a top 2 seed at this juncture......oh and that elite team qualifier didn’t seem to apply to San Diego State who has as a 2 seed....
That kind of logic doesn’t give me much faith in his ability.
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Was messing around with T Rank's teamcast and it has Marquette in the NCAA tournament if they finish 17-13 (7-11)
Now, I doubt that's the case. But seems that MU would have a legit shot at 8-10 in conference.
http://barttorvik.com/teamcast.php?rank=41&team=Marquette&year=2020&bracket=1&Loyola_MDMarquette11-5=A&PurdueMarquette11-13=A&MarquetteWisconsin11-17=A&Robert_MorrisMarquette11-23=A&DavidsonMarquette11-28=A&USCMarquette11-29=A&MarylandMarquette12-1=A&JacksonvilleMarquette12-4=A&MarquetteKansas_St_12-7=A&Grambling_St_Marquette12-17=A&North_Dakota_St_Marquette12-20=A&Central_ArkansasMarquette12-28=A&MarquetteCreighton1-1=A&VillanovaMarquette1-4=A&ProvidenceMarquette1-7=A&MarquetteSeton_Hall1-11=L&XavierMarquette1-15=W&MarquetteGeorgetown1-18=W&St__John_sMarquette1-21=W&MarquetteButler1-24=L&MarquetteXavier1-29=L&DePaulMarquette2-1=W&ButlerMarquette2-9=L&MarquetteVillanova2-12=L&CreightonMarquette2-18=W&MarquetteProvidence2-22=L&GeorgetownMarquette2-26=W&Seton_HallMarquette2-29=L&MarquetteDePaul3-3=L&MarquetteSt__John_s3-7=L&x1_type=&x1_loc=&x1_team=&x1_res=&x2_type=&x2_loc=&x2_team=&x2_res=&x3_type=&x3_loc=&x3_team=&x3_res=&x4_type=&x4_loc=&x4_team=&x4_res=&x5_type=&x5_loc=&x5_team=&x5_res=
T-Rank has us currently as last 4 in, alongside Purdue, Xavier, and Washington. He does project us as finishing 17-13 and 7-11 in Big East.
Has us ranked 41st, Pomeroy has us at 35 currently.
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T-Rank has us currently as last 4 in, alongside Purdue, Xavier, and Washington. He does project us as finishing 17-13 and 7-11 in Big East.
Has us ranked 41st, Pomeroy has us at 35 currently.
I think you're looking at the results I plugged in. He has us as the first 10 seed.
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I think you're looking at the results I plugged in. He has us as the first 10 seed.
Hmm. I refreshed the page and when I scroll to the bottom of our team page he has us as an 11 seed. Either way..trending toward a bubble team in a down year in college hoop. Considering loss of Hausers, I'll be happy with an NCAA bid, but sure would like to see a win too.
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Bracket Matrix has us in better shape then TRank
https://twitter.com/bracketproject/status/1215822330896642050?s=21
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So Lunardi has us with a potential (albeit unlikely) second round matchup with 15 seed Murray State Racers. I would like that rematch.
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27 on Lunardi's S curve
https://twitter.com/ESPNLunardi/status/1216045330279485440?s=19
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8 seed per Lunardi
http://m.espn.com/ncb/bracketology?src=desktop&rand=ref~%7B%22ref%22%3A%22https%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FaKjK0Mi1PF%3Famp%3D1%22%7D
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From The Athletic Bubble Watch today
Marquette (11-5, 1-3; NET: 42, SOS: 36):[/size] Marquette was already fairly close to the (very precise and not at all imaginary) work to do/should be in threshold last week. Then it lost to Providence (at home) and Seton Hall (away). No big deal on the latter, and the former is hardly a season-ending catastrophe, but the cumulative effect of both was to cast this résumé in a slightly different light. Suddenly, home wins over Purdue and Villanova are basically the only noteworthy results here, and Purdue still doesn’t qualify in Quadrant 1. Don’t freak out, Golden Eagles fans, but a slight downgrade is definitely in order.[/color]
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As some others see MU...(again this is all light hearted stuff for any that take it too seriously at this point compared to when it counts) .....Andy Katz has MU a 10 seed today.
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From The Athletic Bubble Watch today
Marquette (11-5, 1-3; NET: 42, SOS: 36):[/size] Marquette was already fairly close to the (very precise and not at all imaginary) work to do/should be in threshold last week. Then it lost to Providence (at home) and Seton Hall (away). No big deal on the latter, and the former is hardly a season-ending catastrophe, but the cumulative effect of both was to cast this résumé in a slightly different light. Suddenly, home wins over Purdue and Villanova are basically the only noteworthy results here, and Purdue still doesn’t qualify in Quadrant 1. Don’t freak out, Golden Eagles fans, but a slight downgrade is definitely in order.[/color]
Fair assessment.
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...Don’t freak out, Golden Eagles fans...
This.
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Lunardi says time to worry??
Joe Lunardi
@ESPNLunardi
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1h
Time to worry about Texas Tech (1-5 in Q1), Marquette (1-4) and Florida (0-3)? Numbers like that rarely improve as the season rolls along.
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Lunardi says time to worry??
Joe Lunardi
@ESPNLunardi
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1h
Time to worry about Texas Tech (1-5 in Q1), Marquette (1-4) and Florida (0-3)? Numbers like that rarely improve as the season rolls along.
Guessing he's talking more about seeding, but yeah. Purdue getting hot and turning into a Q1 win would be nice. Still 9 more opportunities for Q1 wins as it stands now.
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The reality is that a loss for either Xavier or MU is not a death sentence in and of itself, but it results in the need to rattle off a fairly lengthy win streak with little margin for error.
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Lunardi says time to worry??
Joe Lunardi
@ESPNLunardi
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1h
Time to worry about Texas Tech (1-5 in Q1), Marquette (1-4) and Florida (0-3)? Numbers like that rarely improve as the season rolls along.
Chris Beard is on the list of coaches people want. Florida’s coach would be for some, too. Few are immune from basketball ups and downs.
Tomorrow’s game is a must win.
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Chris Beard is on the list of coaches people want. Florida’s coach would be for some, too. Few are immune from basketball ups and downs.
Tomorrow’s game is a must win.
Chris Beard made the Elite 8 in his 2nd season at Texas Tech. He made it to the NCAA Title game last season in just his 3rd season. Texas Tech had never gone past the Sweet 16 in school history prior to that, a difficult place to win historically.
If Wojo did these things in his first three or even six seasons he would get a well deserved enormous pass this season as well. (TT is recruiting well too)
Mike White made it to the Elite 8 at Florida in just his 2nd season. He is coming off of three straight NCAA appearances where his team has not lost in the first round.
These would not be the best examples and comparisons. Apples to oranges.
The overall point is that they had big success in short order at their schools, and seem to be positioned to do so moving forward. Never winning an NCAA game isn’t really comparable to that.
Texas Tech is 36 in The Net and Florida 53.
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Lunardi says time to worry??
Joe Lunardi
@ESPNLunardi
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1h
Time to worry about Texas Tech (1-5 in Q1), Marquette (1-4) and Florida (0-3)? Numbers like that rarely improve as the season rolls along.
Now says we are an 8, playing Ill. in Omaha
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Chris Beard made the Elite 8 in his 2nd season at Texas Tech. He made it to the NCAA Title game last season in just his 3rd season. Texas Tech had never gone past the Sweet 16 in school history prior to that, a difficult place to win historically.
If Wojo did these things in his first three or even six seasons he would get a well deserved enormous pass this season as well. (TT is recruiting well too)
Mike White made it to the Elite 8 at Florida in just his 2nd season. He is coming off of three straight NCAA appearances where his team has not lost in the first round.
These would not be the best examples and comparisons. Apples to oranges.
The overall point is that they had big success in short order at their schools, and seem to be positioned to do so moving forward. Never winning an NCAA game isn’t really comparable to that.
Texas Tech is 36 in The Net and Florida 53.
Agree. I wish Wojo did as well as quickly as Beard and White. That kind of fast success is rare but it does happen, and Wojo wasn't one of those who was able to do it.
So the solution is ... fire him coming off a 24-win season, with a top-10 recruiting class already signed, and without a trace of NCAA rule violations during his entire tenure?
Not sure how many university presidents would do that, but maybe some would. I welcome hearing some examples of those who have.
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Agree. I wish Wojo did as well as quickly as Beard and White. That kind of fast success is rare but it does happen, and Wojo wasn't one of those who was able to do it.
So the solution is ... fire him coming off a 24-win season, with a top-10 recruiting class already signed, and without a trace of NCAA rule violations during his entire tenure?
Not sure how many university presidents would do that, but maybe some would. I welcome hearing some examples of those who have.
Didn't UCLA do that to Ben howland? I know there were other issues but I don't remember ncaa violations.
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Didn't UCLA do that to Ben howland? I know there were other issues but I don't remember ncaa violations.
Don't think the NCAA ever got involved, but he totally lost control of the players.
https://www.espn.com/los-angeles/ncb/story/_/id/7629031/ucla-bruins-coach-ben-howland-lost-control-highly-recruited-players-according-report
Wojo has behaved very differently, making it clear that it is his program. Pretty sure the BOT prefers Wojo's way to Howland's.
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Up to a 6 seed on Bracketville. 24 on the S-Curve
https://bracketville.wordpress.com/bracketology/
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And some say the current resume is that of a bubble team or out. Just keep winning.
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Six seed here as well.
Seven Big East teams in, with Xavier in the first four out.
https://sports.yahoo.com/bracketology-michigan-state-headlines-opening-130244208.html
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Chris Beard made the Elite 8 in his 2nd season at Texas Tech. He made it to the NCAA Title game last season in just his 3rd season. Texas Tech had never gone past the Sweet 16 in school history prior to that, a difficult place to win historically.
If Wojo did these things in his first three or even six seasons he would get a well deserved enormous pass this season as well. (TT is recruiting well too)
Mike White made it to the Elite 8 at Florida in just his 2nd season. He is coming off of three straight NCAA appearances where his team has not lost in the first round.
These would not be the best examples and comparisons. Apples to oranges.
The overall point is that they had big success in short order at their schools, and seem to be positioned to do so moving forward. Never winning an NCAA game isn’t really comparable to that.
Texas Tech is 36 in The Net and Florida 53.
There are Florida fans wanting White’s head for not doing enough and “trending” the wrong way. 8th place last year.
Some fans are miserable all the time
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Up to a 6 seed on Bracketville. 24 on the S-Curve
https://bracketville.wordpress.com/bracketology/
That draw would suck
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Let's secure a bid first.
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That draw would suck
UNI is dangerous
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UNI is dangerous
Yup, and Louisville as the 3.
I would literally trade spots with any of the other 6 seeds in that mock bracket and several of the 7’s.
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Didn't UCLA do that to Ben howland? I know there were other issues but I don't remember ncaa violations.
UCLA did fire Howland coming off an NCAA tournament appearance. There were allegations of improprieties floating around but I don't know if there were actually accusations of NCAA rules violations. Also, I don't know if he had a top-10 class coming in.
Again, it would be pretty unusual to fire a coach coming off an NCAA tournament appearance, having a top-10 recruiting class signed and having not a sniff of NCAA improprieties.
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology
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https://bracketeer.org/bracket/2020/1/20/bracketology-012020-louisville-leap
yes please
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https://bracketeer.org/bracket/2020/1/20/bracketology-012020-louisville-leap
yes please
I don't like the concept of playing BOI toppin. Bailey Sacar and Cain give up way too much height.
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MU up to the number one 8 seed on bracket matrix
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That draw would suck
I know the committee has put lousy seeds close to home before (like Utah State in Boise), but it would be inexcusable if 11 seed NCSU gets to play in Greensboro....
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology
Lunardi has us up to a 6. Think that's about where we end up with a 10-8 or 11-7 record, depending on how other teams perform.
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology
Lunardi has us up to a 6. Think that's about where we end up with a 10-8 or 11-7 record, depending on how other teams perform.
And 10-8 or 11-7 should be about where we end up
Probable wins (5): @X, DePaul, @Providence, Georgetown, @St Johns
Probable losses (3): @Butler, @Nova, Seton Hall
Toss-ups (3): Butler, Creighton, @DePaul
That gets us to between 9-9 and 12-6
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And 10-8 or 11-7 should be about where we end up
Probable wins (5): @X, DePaul, @Providence, Georgetown, @St Johns
Probable losses (3): @Butler, @Nova, Seton Hall
Toss-ups (3): Butler, Creighton, @DePaul
That gets us to between 9-9 and 12-6
Seems reasonable, though I could see us winning or losing any of those games. And I'd say the same about any BEast team playing any game. I mean, DePaul took Nova into OT in Philly just a week ago, and St. John's had Seton Hall on the run.
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And 10-8 or 11-7 should be about where we end up
Probable wins (5): @X, DePaul, @Providence, Georgetown, @St Johns
Probable losses (3): @Butler, @Nova, Seton Hall
Toss-ups (3): Butler, Creighton, @DePaul
That gets us to between 9-9 and 12-6
I think at 11-7 MU could be as high as 4 seed when the dust settles.
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology
Lunardi has us up to a 6. Think that's about where we end up with a 10-8 or 11-7 record, depending on how other teams perform.
This is an odd bracket is it does assume several bid stealers. Of note:
- Tulsa winning the AAC with Wichita State, Memphis, and Houston receiving at-large bids
- North Florida winning the Atlantic Sun (and getting a 16 seed) while Liberty takes one of the last at-large bids
- Loyola Chicago winning the Missouri Valley (and getting a 13 seed) while Northern Iowa takes one of the last at-large bids
And then on the flip-side, he's got East Tennessee State with the auto-bid for the Southern conference, but also receiving an 11-seed, so in the at-large range.
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I think at 11-7 MU could be as high as 4 seed when the dust settles.
I'd guess a 5 or maybe a 6, unless we beat SHU and sweep Nova. Our resume is strong enough that we'll be able to get into the tournament even at 8-10, but I don't believe the ceiling is very high. There just aren't enough great wins.
On T-rank you can simulate the games and it projects the tournament field. At 17-13 (7-11) it has us in the last four in. If we win out and win the BET we'd be 28-5 and would only be projected as a 3 seed.
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I'd guess a 5 or maybe a 6, unless we beat SHU and sweep Nova. Our resume is strong enough that we'll be able to get into the tournament even at 8-10, but I don't believe the ceiling is very high. There just aren't enough great wins.
On T-rank you can simulate the games and it projects the tournament field. At 17-13 (7-11) it has us in the last four in. If we win out and win the BET we'd be 28-5 and would only be projected as a 3 seed.
If 28-5 only got us a 3 seed that'd be ridiculous and I'd be of the belief we'll never get higher than that
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If 28-5 only got us a 3 seed that'd be ridiculous and I'd be of the belief we'll never get higher than that
Depends on the other teams in front of us. The four teams on the top line have a combined 5 losses right now. But looking at the teams on the two line I would agree 28-5 would likely be a 2 seed.
Not gonna happen obviously but it's a fun hypothetical.
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And 10-8 or 11-7 should be about where we end up
Probable wins (5): @X, DePaul, @Providence, Georgetown, @St Johns
Probable losses (3): @Butler, @Nova, Seton Hall
Toss-ups (3): Butler, Creighton, @DePaul
That gets us to between 9-9 and 12-6
I know you're predicting but this year in the big east, I don't think there are any "probable wins"
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Depends on the other teams in front of us. The four teams on the top line have a combined 5 losses right now. But looking at the teams on the two line I would agree 28-5 would likely be a 2 seed.
Not gonna happen obviously but it's a fun hypothetical.
Don’t let Guru see that type of negativity.
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This is an odd bracket is it does assume several bid stealers. Of note:
- Tulsa winning the AAC with Wichita State, Memphis, and Houston receiving at-large bids
- North Florida winning the Atlantic Sun (and getting a 16 seed) while Liberty takes one of the last at-large bids
- Loyola Chicago winning the Missouri Valley (and getting a 13 seed) while Northern Iowa takes one of the last at-large bids
And then on the flip-side, he's got East Tennessee State with the auto-bid for the Southern conference, but also receiving an 11-seed, so in the at-large range.
All based on current standings. Tulsa and Houston are tied atop the AAC and Tulsa has the head-to-head win. North Florida won at Liberty last night to put them in a first place tie with the head-to-head tiebreaker going to UNF. Loyola has the current lead in the MVC, but they play at UNI on Sunday, which could move the Panthers to the top of the standings with a win.
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All based on current standings. Tulsa and Houston are tied atop the AAC and Tulsa has the head-to-head win. North Florida won at Liberty last night to put them in a first place tie with the head-to-head tiebreaker going to UNF. Loyola has the current lead in the MVC, but they play at UNI on Sunday, which could move the Panthers to the top of the standings with a win.
Gotcha, appreciate the additional context.
I just thought it was interesting especially that a bid stealer was chosen out of a conference that already had 3 at-larges. And then you consider East Tennessee State, while likely the favorite to win their conference tourney, still has some stiff competition in UNC Greensboro, Furman, and even Wofford or West Carolina are capable of knocking them off. I just thought that would be more likely than none of Houston, Memphis, and Wichita State winning the AAC tourney.
But what you laid out makes sense from a logic perspective to just build basic rules behind picking the auto-bids.
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Still a 6 seed at NBC/Bracketville
https://bracketville.wordpress.com/s-curve/
https://bracketville.wordpress.com/bracketology/
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7 Seed at CBS
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/bracketology/
Lunardi had us as a 6 seed in his latest update on Saturday.
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Just a question: which bracketologist/website is most accurate every year?
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Just a question: which bracketologist/website is most accurate every year?
Dave Ommen, who runs Bracketville and recently had his bracket taken on by NBC, has been the most accurate over the past 5 years. It's why I include his bracket along with ESPN and CBS
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Jerry Palms updated bracket would be such an amazing draw.
https://twitter.com/jppalmcbs/status/1221865773469196289?s=21
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Jerry Palms updated bracket would be such an amazing draw.
https://twitter.com/jppalmcbs/status/1221865773469196289?s=21
Dayton would be a brutal 2nd round matchup. They are awesome this year and I don't think we'd have any answer for Crutcher or Toppin.
I like the first round matchup against VT, though.
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Dayton would be a brutal 2nd round matchup. They are awesome this year and I don't think we'd have any answer for Crutcher or Toppin.
I like the first round matchup against VT, though.
Agree to disagree. As a 7 seed, I would absolutely love Dayton as the 2 seed in my region. Much prefer Dayton to other possible 2 seeds like Duke, Oregon, Michigan State, Florida State, Louisiville, etc.
I have watched Dayton several times this year. They're legit. Most 2 seeds are (I don't think they'll actually be a 2 seed come tourney time). I'd still take my chances with them over the aforementioned teams as my 2nd round matchup.
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I still have faith in this team that we can get as high as a 4-5 seed. We would hold a 4 seed if we didnt lose to butler or providence. The chips are likely to fall in our favor eventually. Still have lots of games to build a resume with. Home games vs Butler, Seton Hall, Creighton.
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I still have faith in this team that we can get as high as a 4-5 seed. We would hold a 4 seed if we didnt lose to butler or providence. The chips are likely to fall in our favor eventually. Still have lots of games to build a resume with. Home games vs Butler, Seton Hall, Creighton.
Agreed. A 4 seed is definitely possible if we can closed the season as follows:
W @ X
W vs. Depaul
W. vs. Butler
L @ Nova
W vs. Creighton
W @ PC
W vs. Gtown
L vs. Seton Hall
W vs. Depaul
W @ SJU
12-6 record in conference. Can move the losses around as you please, not sure it matters much. Tough task for sure, but that should be good enough to get into the top 16 seeds this season.
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Just a question: which bracketologist/website is most accurate every year?
Definitely not Jerry Palm
http://www.bracketmatrix.com/rankings.html
85th out of 133? Bottom tercile?? Routinely swirlied by amateur hobbyists??? And the guy gets paid to do this???? Embarrassing!
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12-6 record in conference. Can move the losses around as you please, not sure it matters much. Tough task for sure, but that should be good enough to get into the top 16 seeds this season.
Agreed. Finishing the regular season at 22-8 (12-6) would likely put Marquette at 2nd in the Big East, the second-toughest conference in college basketball this season. (Since the realignment, no team has won the league title with fewer than 13 wins.) Regardless of how we do in the conference tournament, that should be worth at least a 4-seed in the NCAA tourney -- maybe even better.
Finish 11-7 and we're probably somewhere in the range of a 5-seed or 6-seed.
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Agreed. A 4 seed is definitely possible if we can closed the season as follows:
W @ X
W vs. Depaul
W. vs. Butler
L @ Nova
W vs. Creighton
W @ PC
W vs. Gtown
L vs. Seton Hall
W vs. Depaul
W @ SJU
12-6 record in conference. Can move the losses around as you please, not sure it matters much. Tough task for sure, but that should be good enough to get into the top 16 seeds this season.
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With Greg hurt and Symir not quite ready for prime time, Markus will have to carry much of the load through the end of the season. The odds of Markus staying healthy enough to achieve a winning record in conference is a coin flip at best.
I hope some of these projection turn out to be close to right. Realistically I think 9-9 in conference would be a good record for Marquette this season.
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With Greg hurt and Symir not quite ready for prime time, Markus will have to carry much of the load through the end of the season. The odds of Markus staying healthy enough to achieve a winning record in conference is a coin flip at best.
I hope some of these projection turn out to be close to right. Realistically I think 9-9 in conference would be a good record for Marquette this season.
To be clear, that wasn't a projection. Just saying a 4 seed is possible.
Anything 8-10 or better and we're in. Gun to head, I'd go with 10-8.
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I'd go with 10-8.
I'd agree with this, as well. I think this team still has the potential to raise its level of play. But based solely on what we've seen to date, this looks like a 10-8 team to me.
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I would take a 10-8.
But this team is going 9-9.
We have the pieces. But we also don’t have the depth at certain spots. I expect 2 more blow out wins.
But also expect 2 more close ass losses.
Also. I’d like to mention the GLARING absence of certain posters in this thread about teams expectations and positive rankings/seedlings despite the losses.
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7 seed in Lunardi today
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Agreed. Finishing the regular season at 22-8 (12-6) would likely put Marquette at 2nd in the Big East, the second-toughest conference in college basketball this season. (Since the realignment, no team has won the league title with fewer than 13 wins.) Regardless of how we do in the conference tournament, that should be worth at least a 4-seed in the NCAA tourney -- maybe even better.
Finish 11-7 and we're probably somewhere in the range of a 5-seed or 6-seed.
Second? The ceiling is third with the way The Hall and Nova are playing and are ahead of us in the standings.
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Second? The ceiling is third with the way The Hall and Nova are playing and are ahead of us in the standings.
Not necessarily. Both teams had easier starts to their conference season. They still have to play each other twice, Nova has at Butler still to come and Seton Hall has at Marquette and at Creighton. One of those two teams sweeps the other one and they are in striking distance. Nova especially hasn't been blowing people out, they have single digit wins vs X, vs DePaul, and at Providence. Do I think we end up in second? No. I think 3rd or 4th is much more likely but I don't think saying the ceiling is 2nd is unrealistic.
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We're up to the 2nd highest 7 seed behind Rutgers
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Give me 4 more wins. That’s enough for me.
I want 5 more wins.
But 4 more would make me happy. 9-9. Please.
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology
Lunardi has us back to a 6. Bracketmatrix still has us as the 2nd 7.
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The Athletic's Bracketwatch has MU as a 7 seed playing St. Mary's in Cleveland.
Potential second-round game vs West Virginia ... which I actually like more than the first-round matchup.
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Give me 4 more wins. That’s enough for me.
I want 5 more wins.
But 4 more would make me happy. 9-9. Please.
I'm usually someone who preaches realistic expectations and patience, but man...all these people hoping for 9-9 are driving me nuts.
Look at our remaining games
DePaul
Butler
@Villanova
Creighton
@Providence
Georgetown
Seton Hall
@DePaul
@St. Johns
How can you look at that schedule and only think we will win 4 more? We've already beaten Villanova, Georgetown, and St. Johns. We took Providence and Butler to overtime. DePaul is DePaul. We get two of the best teams in conference (Seton Hall and Butler) at home.
I think we win 4/5 home games and 2/4 on the road. That would get us to 11-7. I'm disappointed with anything less (unless Howard is out...)
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I'm usually someone who preaches realistic expectations and patience, but man...all these people hoping for 9-9 are driving me nuts.
Look at our remaining games
DePaul
Butler
@Villanova
Creighton
@Providence
Georgetown
Seton Hall
@DePaul
@St. Johns
How can you look at that schedule and only think we will win 4 more? We've already beaten Villanova, Georgetown, and St. Johns. We took Providence and Butler to overtime. DePaul is DePaul. We get two of the best teams in conference (Seton Hall and Butler) at home.
I think we win 4/5 home games and 2/4 on the road. That would get us to 11-7. I'm disappointed with anything less (unless Howard is out...)
I agree with you as long as the Howard injury is not a factor. We went 5-4 in the first half with 5 of the games being on the road. Now we have 5 home games in the last nine. What is interesting is our last two games on the road. I am hoping to have 9 wins going onto the last two games.
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How can you look at that schedule and only think we will win 4 more?
Honestly? I think people are still shell shocked from last year's collapse. Myself included.
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Honestly? I think people are still shell shocked from last year's collapse. Myself included.
Also, while we've played better since the 1-3 start history tells us there'll be a dud game somewhere. We're currently 4-0 against the bottom 4 in the conference, I would be pretty surprised if we finish 8-0 against them. We'll trip up somewhere.
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Honestly? I think people are still shell shocked from last year's collapse. Myself included.
Or maybe it is the three Big East OTs, just halfway through. And frankly, we won the OT game we should have lost, and lost the two we should have one.
Scoop needs to offer a supplemental mental health insurance plan as part of its membership benefits. Step it up.
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Welcome to life in a tough conference. Too much for you? Watch curling.
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Or maybe it is the three Big East OTs, just halfway through. And frankly, we won the OT game we should have lost, and lost the two we should have one.
Scoop needs to offer a supplemental mental health insurance plan as part of its membership benefits. Step it up.
How do you figure we should've lost the X game?
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How do you figure we should've lost the X game?
My statement is based on Pomeroy odds of winning. With under 3 minutes to go in regulation, X had a 80% chance of winning. For our two losses, we had a very high probability of winning late.
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My statement is based on Pomeroy odds of winning. With under 3 minutes to go in regulation, X had a 80% chance of winning. For our two losses, we had a very high probability of winning late.
Gotcha. Thanks for elaborating :)
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Welcome to life in a tough conference. Too much for you? Watch curling.
I guess. Of the four OT's in the Big East conference games so far, MU owns three (75%) of them. The other was DePaul vs. Nova.
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Welcome to life in a tough conference. Too much for you? Watch curling.
Or be the lone good team in a mid major. Some people just can't handle being a fan of a BE team. ::)
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A lot of posters here complain about Wojo being out coached on the bench during games. Whether true or not the question becomes does head coaching experience matter? Using this years Lindy's Sports Magazine I looked up the head coaching experience of all 75 power 6 teams. The magazine lists each coaches years of being head coach. There are two coaches (Michigan and Vandy) who have no coaching experience in terms of being a head coach for a division 1 school. In November it looked like Michigan might be the best team in the country. Michigan is now 12-8 and I would argue Michigan is being taken to the woodshed by more experience coaches. We just beat Xavier in overtime. Xavier head coach has 1 year of head coaching experience, while Wojo has 5 years of coaching experience. We lost to Providence in overtime and their head coach has 13 years of head coaching experience. On the flip side we lost to Butler in overtime and their head coach has 3 years of experience. However, they were the better team playing on their home court.
Big East head coaching experience:
Villanova 25
Creighton 18
St. John's 17
Providence 13
DePaul 13
Seton Hall 12
Marquette 5
Butler 3
Georgetown 2
Xavier 1
Power 6
40+ 2
30 to 39 8
20 to 29 10
11 to 19 22
10 5
9 1
8 5
7 3
6 4
5 3 including Wojo
4 4
3 3 Including Butler
2 2 including Georgetown
1 1 Xavier
0 2
Of the 75 power 6 schools only 12 coaches have less experience than Wojo and two of these are in the Big East.
While I do think head coaching experience matters to some degree, I believe it still comes down to players either making plays or not making plays.
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Palm has USC ahead of us????
LOL
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Palm has USC ahead of us????
LOL
Cheeks is having lunch with him in Miami so I am sure that will get reversed.
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Cheeks is having lunch with him in Miami so I am sure that will get reversed.
Impressed Cheeks can squeeze that in between his tee time with the Mannings and happy hour drinks with Tom Condon.
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Impressed Cheeks can squeeze that in between his tee time with the Mannings and happy hour drinks with Tom Condon.
Dont forget dinners with the Harbaugh clan and Crean.
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https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/28577356/ncaa-tournament-bubble-watch-first-look-wildest-bubble-years#BigEast
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6 seed at NBC/bracketville
https://bracketville.wordpress.com/
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Even though I want a higher seed this year, PLEASE give MU a favorable draw. That's all I ask. Give them an opponent in the first round that doesn't really have a long defender to put on Markus, and one that doesn't defend the perimeter real well.
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https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/bracketology/
6 seed at CBS
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Even though I want a higher seed this year, PLEASE give MU a favorable draw. That's all I ask. Give them an opponent in the first round that doesn't really have a long defender to put on Markus, and one that doesn't defend the perimeter real well.
Agree that would be nice.
It also would be nice if Sacar, BB, Koby and others step up, and if Wojo coaches a good game.
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Impressed Cheeks can squeeze that in between his tee time with the Mannings and happy hour drinks with Tom Condon.
Ahh...you all flatter me. Man I live in your heads a lot...hilarious.
Haven’t played golf in three or four years due to shoulder injury...going under the knife. Peyton plays at Augusta...that would be a blast to play a round there some day.
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Even though I want a higher seed this year, PLEASE give MU a favorable draw. That's all I ask. Give them an opponent in the first round that doesn't really have a long defender to put on Markus, and one that doesn't defend the perimeter real well.
You mean matchups matter in the tournament...it isn’t just the seed and the coach that determines advancement? Well damn, almost like crap shoot.
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https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/bracketology/
6 seed at CBS
This would be a travesty of a draw. I'd be OK with a 6 seed, but (even though neither has been as good as expected) I would hate to see Memphis or Florida in the first round.
Then to have to play Maryland again... Revenge would be sweet, but the November game against them was painful enough to watch.
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology
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Ahh...you all flatter me. Man I live in your heads a lot...hilarious.
Haven’t played golf in three or four years due to shoulder injury...going under the knife. Peyton plays at Augusta...that would be a blast to play a round there some day.
Shoulder injury for yanking of so many celebs
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Even though I want a higher seed this year, PLEASE give MU a favorable draw. That's all I ask. Give them an opponent in the first round that doesn't really have a long defender to put on Markus, and one that doesn't defend the perimeter real well.
And doesn't make" NBA Rookie of the year" the following year.
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Not that it matters
But lunardi dropped us
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Not that it matters
But lunardi dropped us
Probably by like 1-3 spots on the S curve. As you said, meaningless.
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Shoulder injury for yanking of so many celebs
Couldn’t even pull off your lame joke without misspelling it and blowing it.
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I do not like that bracket at all
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Top 16 reveal was today......
Bracket matrix didn’t have exact order but they had all the seeds right
https://twitter.com/bracketproject/status/1226107211492913153?s=21
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Here is how they ranked the teams:
1. Baylor (South)
2. Kansas (Midwest)
3. Gonzaga (West)
4. San Diego State (East)
5. Duke (East)
6. Dayton (Midwest)
7. Louisville (South)
8. West Virginia (West)
9. Maryland (East)
10. Florida State (Midwest)
11. Seton Hall (South)
12. Villanova (West)
13. Auburn (South)
14. Oregon (West)
15. Butler (East)
16. Michigan State (Midwest)
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Half of our losses to teams in the top 16 with none of them happening at home.
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People not liking the bracket I mean it's the ncca tourney. All of teams are good. Only the 2 and maybe 3 seeds have "easy" games. Gonna have to play well no matter what really if you wanna advance. We will not be playing a game where we all feel great about the odds. Way it is
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Here is how they ranked the teams:
1. Baylor (South)
2. Kansas (Midwest)
3. Gonzaga (West)
4. San Diego State (East)
5. Duke (East)
6. Dayton (Midwest)
7. Louisville (South)
8. West Virginia (West)
9. Maryland (East)
10. Florida State (Midwest)
11. Seton Hall (South)
12. Villanova (West)
13. Auburn (South)
14. Oregon (West)
15. Butler (East)
16. Michigan State (Midwest)
Is ther a bigger GD fraud than Michigan State. 8 total losses and only 3 Quad 1 wins. I can’t ever remember a bigger case of a team trading on their name. Michigan State is closer to a bubble team than a top 4 seed. NCAA embarrassing itself yet again.
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Second? The ceiling is third with the way The Hall and Nova are playing and are ahead of us in the standings.
Not necessarily. Both teams had easier starts to their conference season. They still have to play each other twice, Nova has at Butler still to come and Seton Hall has at Marquette and at Creighton. One of those two teams sweeps the other one and they are in striking distance. Nova especially hasn't been blowing people out, they have single digit wins vs X, vs DePaul, and at Providence. Do I think we end up in second? No. I think 3rd or 4th is much more likely but I don't think saying the ceiling is 2nd is unrealistic.
Week and a half later and we are a half game out of second. Still don't think we finish in second, but still think second has always been within our ceiling.
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Here is how they ranked the teams:
1. Baylor (South)
2. Kansas (Midwest)
3. Gonzaga (West)
4. San Diego State (East)
5. Duke (East)
6. Dayton (Midwest)
7. Louisville (South)
8. West Virginia (West)
9. Maryland (East)
10. Florida State (Midwest)
11. Seton Hall (South)
12. Villanova (West)
13. Auburn (South)
14. Oregon (West)
15. Butler (East)
16. Michigan State (Midwest)
15/16 teams correct, 13/16 on the correct line. My only errors were having Maryland and WVU swapped (which made both a seed-line error) and having Penn State in and Michigan State out (they were 16/17 in mine).
What surprised me was they didn't mention Penn State as close. The Nittany Lions have a great resume with the only real hole being the NCSOS. Punishing them for that seems a bit silly, considering the strength of their wins.
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15/16 teams correct, 13/16 on the correct line. My only errors were having Maryland and WVU swapped (which made both a seed-line error) and having Penn State in and Michigan State out (they were 16/17 in mine).
What surprised me was they didn't mention Penn State as close. The Nittany Lions have a great resume with the only real hole being the NCSOS. Punishing them for that seems a bit silly, considering the strength of their wins.
Don’t beat yourself up TOO bad.
An hour later your #17 (the committees #16) lost. And your #16 (penn state) won.
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brewski, they obviously didn't choose Penn State because their coach committed the #1 sin in college basketball: He didn't foul when up 3. And he had the temerity to win using his strategy, so he had to be punished!
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NBC Bracketville today, 6 seed.
https://twitter.com/RobDauster/status/1226887989084741633?s=19
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Bracket Matrix has MU has last 6th seed, just ahead of Ohio State (first 7th seed)
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Bracket Matrix has MU has last 6th seed, just ahead of Ohio State (first 7th seed)
They've been there since before the butler win and Arizona and LSU's loss. My guess is that they will move up in the next update
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NBC Bracketville today, 6 seed.
https://twitter.com/RobDauster/status/1226887989084741633?s=19
Top 6 seed at 21 on the S Curve
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Bracket Matrix has MU has last 6th seed, just ahead of Ohio State (first 7th seed)
Sidebar - what the hell is up with OSU? I'm trying to think of a bigger regular season collapse.
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Sidebar - what the hell is up with OSU? I'm trying to think of a bigger regular season collapse.
They were coming off 3 straight wins and playing in a tough environment. If they can win the next two at home, they should be okay. They certainly aren't the team they looked like in December, but after losing 6/7 and starting 2-6 in conference play, I'm sure any OSU fan would've gleefully signed up for 3-1 in their past 4, especially with 3 of those on the road.
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Sidebar - what the hell is up with OSU? I'm trying to think of a bigger regular season collapse.
I4 last year was pretty historic.
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Sidebar - what the hell is up with OSU? I'm trying to think of a bigger regular season collapse.
Michigan State was preseason number 1....now out of the top 25.
Trae Young's Oklahoma team also raises their hand........https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/08/sports/ncaabasketball/trae-young-oklahoma-ncaa-tournament.html
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I4 last year was pretty historic.
MU last year comes to mind!
Glass houses?
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Sidebar - what the hell is up with OSU? I'm trying to think of a bigger regular season collapse.
Didn’t Clemson start out 17-0 one year and not make the tournament?
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MU last year comes to mind!
Glass houses?
True enough.
Still, we didn't start at No. 1 and fall out of the rankings by mid-Feb.
Let's hope we're not talking about any more MU collapses any time soon!
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MU last year comes to mind!
Glass houses?
6 game losing streak compared to losing 12 of 13. 5 seed compared to having to turn down a NIT invite because you know that your fans won't turn up.
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Didn’t Clemson start out 17-0 one year and not make the tournament?
I also thought it happened with one of the Arizona teams (AZ St.??) in the past couple of years, but was too productive at work (read: lazy) to look it up.
And I don't think there's comparisons to last year - we were't #1 or 2. It was a collapse to be sure, but we were never in danger of bottoming out of the whole damn thing.
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I also thought it happened with one of the Arizona teams (AZ St.??) in the past couple of years, but was too productive at work (read: lazy) to look it up.
And I don't think there's comparisons to last year - we were't #1 or 2. It was a collapse to be sure, but we were never in danger of bottoming out of the whole damn thing.
ASU started 12-0 in 2017, got up to #3 in the AP poll. Barely made the tournament and lost in the play-in game.
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They've been there since before the butler win and Arizona and LSU's loss. My guess is that they will move up in the next update
BM updated today. MU leapfrogged Arizona and LSU and is now the second highest 6 seed and are closer to the #1 6 seed (Iowa) then they are to the #3 6 seed (LSU). Highest someone has us seeded is 4 and the lowest any bracket has is seeded is 8.
Preseason I pegged us for a 4 seed. Seems like a tall order but looks a lot more attainable than it did a month ago. Teams we would currently need to leapfrog on BM are Iowa, Creighton, Colorado, Michigan State, Kentucky, and one of Nova/Butler/Penn State/Oregon. Fortunately, every remaining game we play is Q1 except Georgetown at home and at St. John's (who is 1 spot away from being Q1). Plenty of opportunities for us to move up and we would need to string together multiple losses to move significantly down.
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We win at the Vill and you better be watching the bracket show by the NCAA committee......Could be on that 4th line of the S-Curve.....
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Sidebar - what the hell is up with OSU? I'm trying to think of a bigger regular season collapse.
Really.... after what MU fans witnessed last year... your trying to think of a bigger regular season collapse?
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Really.... after what MU fans witnessed last year... your trying to think of a bigger regular season collapse?
Yeah MU crash and burned all the way from a 3 seed to a 5 seed.
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Lunardi, today, 5 seed East, 4/5 game with Penn St.
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Lunardi, today, 5 seed East, 4/5 game with Penn St.
I would take that draw
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Lunardi, today, 5 seed East, 4/5 game with Penn St.
Payback for the NIT.
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Lunardi, today, 5 seed East, 4/5 game with Penn St.
That's a curious choice. Granted, I had PSU on the 4 line last week, but the SC didn't have them in the top-16 and didn't mention them in the teams just outside. They did mention both Kentucky & Iowa, both of whom won on Saturday. Hard to see how in his mind PSU went past Iowa, who he has down on the 6-line currently.
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Did the show this weekend have Wisconsin in the tourney?
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Did the show this weekend have Wisconsin in the tourney?
The show only had the top 4 seeds in each region.
Wisconsin is pretty safely in at this point even with a 14-10 record because of there Quad 1 wins.
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The show only had the top 4 seeds in each region.
Wisconsin is pretty safely in at this point even with a 14-10 record because of there Quad 1 wins.
they had some bracketologist on after, but I dont recall seeing the Badgers in the field
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they had some bracketologist on after, but I dont recall seeing the Badgers in the field
Definitely in. On bracket matrix this morning they are included in 91/91 brackets.
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Definitely in. On bracket matrix this morning they are included in 91/91 brackets.
I guess that's one piece of evidence. I'll weigh it accordingly.
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Did the show this weekend have Wisconsin in the tourney?
Please please please basketball gods, if you're real..you will see to it that the Badgers crash and burn down the stretch and do NOT make the NCAA's.
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Please please please basketball gods, if you're real..you will see to it that the Badgers crash and burn down the stretch and do NOT make the NCAA's.
That would be bad for MU.
Also, might cost Gard his job ... which also could be bad for MU.
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Please please please basketball gods, if you're real..you will see to it that the Badgers crash and burn down the stretch and do NOT make the NCAA's.
Disagree. Want them to stay top-40 NET so it's a Q1A loss. Our loss column, Providence aside, is one of the strengths of our resume.
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UW has 10 losses, and is 7-6 in conf, with 7 reg season games remaining.
If they go 3-4, to finish 10-10, plus a loss in the conf tourney, they would have 15 losses.
No team with 15 losses has ever received an at large bid to the NCAA tourney.
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UW has 10 losses, and is 7-6 in conf, with 7 reg season games remaining.
If they go 3-4, to finish 10-10, plus a loss in the conf tourney, they would have 15 losses.
No team with 15 losses has ever received an at large bid to the NCAA tourney in eleven months.
FIFY
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UW has 10 losses, and is 7-6 in conf, with 7 reg season games remaining.
If they go 3-4, to finish 10-10, plus a loss in the conf tourney, they would have 15 losses.
No team with 15 losses has ever received an at large bid to the NCAA tourney.
Florida was 19-15 last year and got an at-large. Bucky will be in the dance.
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Disagree. Want them to stay top-40 NET so it's a Q1A loss. Our loss column, Providence aside, is one of the strengths of our resume.
I don't care about that...MU's resume will take care of itself. it's far more important to me to not see them in the dance.
I'm glad you posted this though Brew, because it brings me back to a HUGE issue of mine that I see so many people talk about...one example is what you cited above for instance. that you(and I'm sure many others do too)want UW to make the dance so MU's loss to them doesn't look as bad...or, when someone says "well if so and so beats so and so, that helps us". To me, that's crap...in any sport. Why should you depend on others to help make you look better??
Do what you have to do and take care of your own business, and none of that ever matters, right?? For instance, beat Wisconsin, and beat Providence for example, and what they do the rest of the year really shouldn't matter. Win games, don't lose one's you shouldn't lose and everything else takes care of itself. But because you lose those games(which you shouldn't have), now it turns to a mentality where people want your opponent to do this or that so it helps you look better...you know what would have helped the most?? Not losing to them to begin with. There is no better way to help yourself than by winning games...that goes for ANY sport. Don't rely on your opponents to do the work you could have done yourself. That's the way I see it.
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Florida was 19-15 last year and got an at-large. Bucky will be in the dance.
And Alabama got in in 2018 at 19-15.
As did Vandy in 2017.
Maybe he meant no Big 10 team has gotten in with 15 losses.
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I don't care about that...MU's resume will take care of itself. it's far more important to me to not see them in the dance.
I'm glad you posted this though Brew, because it brings me back to a HUGE issue of mine that I see so many people talk about...one example is what you cited above for instance. that you(and I'm sure many others do too)want UW to make the dance so MU's loss to them doesn't look as bad...or, when someone says "well if so and so beats so and so, that helps us". To me, that's crap...in any sport. Why should you depend on others to help make you look better??
Do what you have to do and take care of your own business, and none of that ever matters, right?? For instance, beat Wisconsin, and beat Providence for example, and what they do the rest of the year really shouldn't matter. Win games, don't lose one's you shouldn't lose and everything else takes care of itself. But because you lose those games(which you shouldn't have), now it turns to a mentality where people want your opponent to do this or that so it helps you look better...you know what would have helped the most?? Not losing to them to begin with. There is no better way to help yourself than by winning games...that goes for ANY sport. Don't rely on your opponents to do the work you could have done yourself. That's the way I see it.
Ignorance of how the tournament selection process works on fully display.
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Florida was 19-15 last year and got an at-large. Bucky will be in the dance.
Not if they are only a couple of games above .500 overall they won't be. It's happened ONE time in NCAA history, and that was when Georgia played an unprecedented non conference schedule.
IF UW gets in, then the next best thing would be if they are in Dayton..I'd be okay with that.
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Yes, more wins are better than fewer wins.
Marquette is currently comfortably in. Keep playing well and there will be nothing to worry about.
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Ignorance of how the tournament selection process works on fully display.
Nice try, I LIVE for the NCAA selection show, I'm well aware of how it works. Answer my question...if you're intelligent enough to do so..If team A takes care of their own business during the year, does it matter what your opponents do the rest of the way?? Especially if it's one's you shouldn't have lost to to begin with??
It makes ZERO difference...do what you need to do and what you can control as a team, and everything will be fine. In other words, win games...lots of them. It's very simple.
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Not gonna name names, but someone here thought there was an anti-MU conspiracy last year. I'm not sure someone who thinks that can claim to be "well aware of how it works."
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=58040.0
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Nice try, I LIVE for the NCAA selection show, I'm well aware of how it works. Answer my question...if you're intelligent enough to do so..If team A takes care of their own business during the year, does it matter what your opponents do the rest of the way?? Especially if it's one's you shouldn't have lost to to begin with??
It makes ZERO difference...do what you need to do and what you can control as a team, and everything will be fine. In other words, win games...lots of them. It's very simple.
If a team from the ACC, a team from the Big 10, a team from the Big 12, a team from Big East, and a team from the SEC went undefeated in the same year, one of those five teams would not get a 1 seed even though each team "took care of their business" all year. How other teams perform has a YUGE impact on both selection and seeding. To say otherwise is to deny reality.
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Nice try, I LIVE for the NCAA selection show, I'm well aware of how it works.
Yes, you live for the show (the result), but you've proven you don't have a clue about how seeds are determined (the process).
Wisconsin losing will negatively Marquette's place on the s-curve and potentially lead to a lower seed. You may still want to Wisconsin to lose despite that, but to insist it has no impact is simply factually wrong.
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Let's see now -- beat Villanova in Philadelphia. Beat Seton Hall in Milwaukee. Beat Creighton in Milwaukee. All doable.
Win the games we are supposed to win -- Georgetown in MKE, DePaul in South Milwaukee, Providence in Rhode Island and St. John's in Milwaukee. All more likely than not.
Do this (and it IS possible) and the last thing we will worry about is a seeding.
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I don't care about that...MU's resume will take care of itself. it's far more important to me to not see them in the dance.
I'm glad you posted this though Brew, because it brings me back to a HUGE issue of mine that I see so many people talk about...one example is what you cited above for instance. that you(and I'm sure many others do too)want UW to make the dance so MU's loss to them doesn't look as bad...or, when someone says "well if so and so beats so and so, that helps us". To me, that's crap...in any sport. Why should you depend on others to help make you look better??
Do what you have to do and take care of your own business, and none of that ever matters, right?? For instance, beat Wisconsin, and beat Providence for example, and what they do the rest of the year really shouldn't matter. Win games, don't lose one's you shouldn't lose and everything else takes care of itself. But because you lose those games(which you shouldn't have), now it turns to a mentality where people want your opponent to do this or that so it helps you look better...you know what would have helped the most?? Not losing to them to begin with. There is no better way to help yourself than by winning games...that goes for ANY sport. Don't rely on your opponents to do the work you could have done yourself. That's the way I see it.
TL;DR
I don't care about Wisconsin, but since they were on our schedule, I want them to have the highest NET possible. Just like Purdue, K-State, Davidson, etc.
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I really believe that MU will wind up on the 3 seed line when its all said and done.
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I really believe that MU will wind up on the 3 seed line when its all said and done.
you think we’re gonna win out?
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I simply can't root for Wisconsin to win, even if them winning helps us slightly.
So I apologize to Wojo, his Warriors and to MU fans everywhere if my rooting against Madison is what causes us to slip a spot on the S-curve.
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Nice try, I LIVE for the NCAA selection show, I'm well aware of how it works. Answer my question...if you're intelligent enough to do so..If team A takes care of their own business during the year, does it matter what your opponents do the rest of the way?? Especially if it's one's you shouldn't have lost to to begin with??
It makes ZERO difference...do what you need to do and what you can control as a team, and everything will be fine. In other words, win games...lots of them. It's very simple.
I mean if you can't go 31-0 in the regular season and win the conference tournament to get the #1 overall seed, why are you even playing the games, right guru?
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I simply can't root for Wisconsin to win, even if them winning helps us slightly.
So I apologize to Wojo, his Warriors and to MU fans everywhere if my rooting against Madison is what causes us to slip a spot on the S-curve.
I never root for them to win, I'm just not paying any real attention to them. I check their NET and hope it stays top-40. If they could lose every game and stay top-40, great, but I really don't want them falling lower than that.
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Said it since Bo forced UW to make Gard the head coach. Gard leading UW is a great thing for MU.
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what does marquette need to do for a 3 seed?
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Not gonna name names, but someone here thought there was an anti-MU conspiracy last year. I'm not sure someone who thinks that can claim to be "well aware of how it works."
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=58040.0
Sorry, but if you don't think there's at least some politics that goes on behind those closed doors..then you don't pay close enough attention my man.
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Yes, you live for the show (the result), but you've proven you don't have a clue about how seeds are determined (the process).
Wisconsin losing will negatively Marquette's place on the s-curve and potentially lead to a lower seed. You may still want to Wisconsin to lose despite that, but to insist it has no impact is simply factually wrong.
Hmmm, gee I don't know Tony..perhaps losing to them leads to a lower seed. How about you not do that to begin with...that's my point. Do what you are SUPPOSED to do, and it takes care of itself. Hate rooting for teams that beat you..that's like saying, well okay, we couldn't beat you, but at least don't suck the rest of the year to make our loss "look better". That's the biggest problem..NO LOSS looks good. Why don't people get that?? IDC who you lost to, what their metrics are or what the committee says...DON'T lose more games than you should reasonably lose.
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Sorry, but if you don't think there's at least some politics that goes on behind those closed doors..then you don't pay close enough attention my man.
And if you think that there is a collective movement to try to screw over MU, your tin foil hat is on too tight. Fundamental lack of understanding about the selection process last year, good to see some things don't change.
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Hmmm, gee I don't know Tony..perhaps losing to them leads to a lower seed. How about you not do that to begin with...that's my point. Do what you are SUPPOSED to do, and it takes care of itself. Hate rooting for teams that beat you..that's like saying, well okay, we couldn't beat you, but at least don't suck the rest of the year to make our loss "look better". That's the biggest problem..NO LOSS looks good. Why don't people get that?? IDC who you lost to, what their metrics are or what the committee says...DON'T lose more games than you should reasonably lose.
Is it okay to root for teams that MU beat?
How many losses are "reasonable"?
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DON'T lose more games than you should reasonably lose.
And here lies the fundamental difference between Guru and everyone else here. Everyone's number of "reasonable" losses is different.
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Losses happen. Results that lessen the effect of those losses on MU's tourney resume are a good thing for MU.
Don't know why this is difficult.
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what does marquette need to do for a 3 seed?
13-5 would be my guess.
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Hmmm, gee I don't know Tony..perhaps losing to them leads to a lower seed. How about you not do that to begin with...that's my point. Do what you are SUPPOSED to do, and it takes care of itself. Hate rooting for teams that beat you..that's like saying, well okay, we couldn't beat you, but at least don't suck the rest of the year to make our loss "look better". That's the biggest problem..NO LOSS looks good. Why don't people get that?? IDC who you lost to, what their metrics are or what the committee says...DON'T lose more games than you should reasonably lose.
We actually agree on not rooting for Madison just because another win or two might "help" us with the NET. We're actually both probably "wrong" here, but I can live with that, and it appears you can, too.
However ...
Folks aren't rooting for Madison to do OK because they think it will make us look better after losing to them. Folks want all the teams we play - whether we lost to them or beat them - to do well because it helps our NET when that happens. So the folks you're arguing with might want Madison, yes, but they also want Davidson, USC and Purdue to win their games. It's not a matter of making us "feel" better about beating or losing to those teams.
And yes, it's better if our heroes win any game than lose any game. Nobody is arguing against Marquette "taking care of business," so please stop pretending that's what's going on. You aren't the only Marquette fan who very much wants us to win tomorrow and every other game.
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And here lies the fundamental difference between Guru and everyone else here. Everyone's number of "reasonable" losses is different.
Of course, yours is likely double digits(reasonable), mine is not. People just see what they want to see I guess...when they lose a game, it's because of this or because of that. Look, sometimes it's that simple, yes. But believe me when I tell you there have been PLENTY of games they had no business losing through the years. If you can't tell when one team is more talented(and this is different than being a better TEAM), then watch more basketball.
For me, regardless of anything else, I will take talent 100 times out of 100. Will it always win?? of course not, especially in a 1 game setting, but sometimes(regardless of what Vegas says), you just know when one team is supposed to beat another. And keep in mind, Vegas will almost always favor a home team once you get into conference play. That however does not mean you're supposed to/or are expected to lose that game. That's just the way Vegas works. Do you really believe that everyone that sets lines, actually believes the team they have as an under dog(simply because they are on the road) will really or should lose that game?? That's what vegas does my friend..Use your eyes, not Vegas lines to decide those things...at least if you trust your eyes.
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Of course, yours is likely double digits(reasonable), mine is not. People just see what they want to see I guess...when they lose a game, it's because of this or because of that. Look, sometimes it's that simple, yes. But believe me when I tell you there have been PLENTY of games they had no business losing through the years. If you can't tell when one team is more talented(and this is different than being a better TEAM), then watch more basketball.
For me, regardless of anything else, I will take talent 100 times out of 100. Will it always win?? of course not, especially in a 1 game setting, but sometimes(regardless of what Vegas says), you just know when one team is supposed to beat another. And keep in mind, Vegas will almost always favor a home team once you get into conference play. That however does not mean you're supposed to/or are expected to lose that game. That's just the way Vegas works. Do you really believe that everyone that sets lines, actually believes the team they have as an under dog(simply because they are on the road) will really or should lose that game?? That's what vegas does my friend..Use your eyes, not Vegas lines to decide those things...at least if you trust your eyes.
Two questions.
1. Where do you think we rank in terms of talent in the Big East?
2. What is an acceptable number of losses in a 31 game season?
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Of course, yours is likely double digits(reasonable), mine is not. People just see what they want to see I guess...when they lose a game, it's because of this or because of that. Look, sometimes it's that simple, yes. But believe me when I tell you there have been PLENTY of games they had no business losing through the years. If you can't tell when one team is more talented(and this is different than being a better TEAM), then watch more basketball.
There have been plenty of games we had no business winning that we've won as well. It's almost like that's how sports work.
The number of losses I expect in a year changes every year based on our level of talent and our SOS. 2 non-con losses was acceptable to me, I know that there is no reason to ever lose to Madison in your opinion, but the non-conference as a whole I was okay with 2. 4 losses through our first 11 Beast games is also an acceptable number to me. I know you think there is no reason to ever lose a home game, or to lose to a team with the talent level of PC, but with the current sample size, I'm happy with the results. Given that a conference championship is currently unlikely I know a competitor such as yourself is no where near satisfied.
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nm
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what does marquette need to do for a 3 seed?
great question.
http://barttorvik.com/teamcast.php?team=Marquette&year=2020
have fun!
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Hmmm, gee I don't know Tony..perhaps losing to them leads to a lower seed. How about you not do that to begin with...that's my point.
It's too late for that. You can wish and wish and wish and it isn't going to happen. So now the reality is that if Wisconsin suffers too many more losses it will affect MU's seed. That's how it works. You don't have to like it, but raging against the mechanics is like farting in the wind. So root against the Bagders all you want, I often do, them's the facts.
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Win out including the BET, gets you a 3 seed on T-Rank.
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what does marquette need to do for a 3 seed?
Go 5-2 and finish second in the Big East and that should be enough. I do plan to address this in a future update.
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Of course, yours is likely double digits(reasonable), mine is not. People just see what they want to see I guess...when they lose a game, it's because of this or because of that. Look, sometimes it's that simple, yes. But believe me when I tell you there have been PLENTY of games they had no business losing through the years. If you can't tell when one team is more talented(and this is different than being a better TEAM), then watch more basketball.
For me, regardless of anything else, I will take talent 100 times out of 100. Will it always win?? of course not, especially in a 1 game setting, but sometimes(regardless of what Vegas says), you just know when one team is supposed to beat another. And keep in mind, Vegas will almost always favor a home team once you get into conference play. That however does not mean you're supposed to/or are expected to lose that game. That's just the way Vegas works. Do you really believe that everyone that sets lines, actually believes the team they have as an under dog(simply because they are on the road) will really or should lose that game?? That's what vegas does my friend..Use your eyes, not Vegas lines to decide those things...at least if you trust your eyes.
Your reasonable loss number is not even fair to the team. The bar is set so high that maybe kansas or duke could consistently meet it any given season. Correct me if I'm wrong but you do give out a "losing at home is never acceptable" vibe. How many teams achieve this? How many never lose a bad game? I'm guessing here but based off your comments it seems like what maryland and Hall are the only "reasonable l" losses thus far? If that were the case and we only lost those we'd be like top 5 right now. This is my whole my point it's just crazy high standards and If they aren't met you feel validated to go off the team/coaches. You should probably go be a fan of kansas because your "reasonable loss" number will not be met here most years.
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Win out including the BET, gets you a 3 seed on T-Rank.
I'd like to believe 27-6, 2nd in the BE(at worst) and a BET title would get us comfortably to a 2 seed
That would be winning 10 more games. With probably 7 of those ending up being Q1.
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Espn bracketology
Marquette 5
Furman
Penn state
San Diego State
Duke
I would take that all day
Final 4 possible
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they had some bracketologist on after, but I dont recall seeing the Badgers in the field
Lol. That is Jerry Palm.
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Your reasonable loss number is not even fair to the team. The bar is set so high that maybe kansas or duke could consistently meet it any given season. Correct me if I'm wrong but you do give out a "losing at home is never acceptable" vibe. How many teams achieve this? How many never lose a bad game? I'm guessing here but based off your comments it seems like what maryland and Hall are the only "reasonable l" losses thus far? If that were the case and we only lost those we'd be like top 5 right now. This is my whole my point it's just crazy high standards and If they aren't met you feel validated to go off the team/coaches. You should probably go be a fan of kansas because your "reasonable loss" number will not be met here most years.
Let me preface my comments first by saying...I NEVER like losses, though fully understanding they will happen. No one goes unbeaten. That's a reality. So by definition, no loss to me is "acceptable". Understandable...yes. Acceptable...never.
Let's take a look at their losses this year..Wisconsin...was absolutely LIVID they not only lost that game, but got their doors blown off. UNACCEPTABLE. Anyone that thinks this is a very talented UW team is smoking something. They are 14-10. You are what your record says you are. Now that being said, i HATED that that game was played so early in the year. I wished it would have been played at it's normal time. Because even though I hated that loss, I never had a good feeling about it simply because of when it was played, MU needed it to be later so they would have had time to have found their offensive identity. Mitigating circumstances with that one, so it's whatever.
Maryland...Never want to say I expect a loss, but had a feeling they weren't going to win that game. That's all that needs to be said about that.
Creighton...what in the actual unnatural carnal knowledge was that performance?? Appalling to say the least. Didn't see that coming.
Providence...I have made my stance clear on this one repeatedly...not much more needs to be said, other than..That one still sticks with me. I have seen a lot of WTF losses from MU at home through the years(unfortunately), but that one..really REALLY sticks with me.
Seton Hall...they are the best team in the conference...BUT, I hope no one forgets MU did have an 11 point lead in that game, only to get their doors blown off the rest of the way..not a good look.
Butler...seriously?? You lead that game basically the ENTIRE time only to not be able to stop Baldwin on the same play...repeatedly. Need to see more proof of how that was an inexcusable loss?? What did MU just do to them Sunday?? Gave them their worst loss of the year...and that was way more than home court at work. To me, that's just the difference in talent on the two teams. Oh yeah, let's also not forget MU lost @ Butler when they were playing without one of the top defenders in the conference. That should have been like taking candy from a baby, going back and taking more. Was one of the most confident I had been all year in a game being a "W".
Now, let's be 100% realistic shall we?? Let's ignore what Vegas lines or anything else says, and let's think about this through an actual "basketball" lens. They have had, overall a hell of a season to this point, there's no denying that. But, I want to touch on something that I think needs to be mentioned..let's stop and think about who exactly MU has beaten in conference this year..
Nova-Home
Butler-Home
Xavier X 2
SJU-Home
DePaul-Home
Georgetown-Road
Now...again, if we are honest, of all the games on the schedule to this point, again being realistic, there is no way you can't say that you would at the very least think they would win all of these games, with the exception of maybe Nova, although that was at home. Right?? In their two biggest test of the year...@ Creighton and @ Hall...they lost both. They have another big test tomm night @ Nova. Again, the season has been good so far, but this hasn't been lost on me that over the last few years at least, if you go through their conference schedules and look at their W's..a lot of them are against "lessor" teams in the conference.
Now of course on one hand, that's taking care of business like you'd expect them to do. However, in all honesty what I really think has kept this program from taking that next step or at least one I'd desperately like to see them take..that's getting a HUGE win over someone in the top of the league...where maybe no one sees it coming. Those have been lacking for the most part. I'm not sure why...it's what's keeping them from winning a conference championship for sure.
It just seems ot me like whenever they have some positive momentum in their favor over the last couple of years and they have a chance to REALLY run with it...they have failed to get the job done. Again, I WANT the nation to start talking about MU, start respecting MU, start FEARING MU and anytime they have had the chance to cement themselves, they haven't gotten it done..I sure hope tomorrow night is the start of a turning of the corner.
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It just seems ot me like whenever they have some positive momentum in their favor over the last couple of years and they have a chance to REALLY run with it...they have failed to get the job done.
How many games in a row does a team have to win to have what you define as "some positive momentum," guru?
Last season, we had two 8-game winning streaks. So that means that twice, we won 5 games in a row - which I think most would call "some positive momentum" and both times they won No. 6, adding to that positive momentum. Then they won No. 7, adding to it again. Then they won No. 8, adding to it again.
Only a Nojo who criticizes most everything our coach does would describe winning an eighth straight game - twice! - as "failing to get the job done."
Obviously, I wish they hadn't lost again, had turned 8 into 9 into 10 into 11 into 12 eventually into a national title. But let's not pretend they didn't take some positive momentum and run with it.
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Continuing to trend up in the Bracket Matrix. We jumped over Iowa and now hold the top 6 seed. Highest anyone has us seeded is 4 and the lowest is 7.
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How many games in a row does a team have to win to have what you define as "some positive momentum," guru?
Last season, we had two 8-game winning streaks. So that means that twice, we won 5 games in a row - which I think most would call "some positive momentum" and both times they won No. 6, adding to that positive momentum. Then they won No. 7, adding to it again. Then they won No. 8, adding to it again.
Only a Nojo who criticizes most everything our coach does would describe winning an eighth straight game - twice! - as "failing to get the job done."
Obviously, I wish they hadn't lost again, had turned 8 into 9 into 10 into 11 into 12 eventually into a national title. But let's not pretend they didn't take some positive momentum and run with it.
Mike, it's not always about how many in a row you win for me, it's about who did you beat in that span...to me that matters, others it may not. Also, let's not over look the fact that with 4 games to play MU needed ONE win to be Big East champs..1...that's it. Heck even as late as the last game of the year at home to a bad Georgetown team they still had a chance to be co champs..and didn't get it done. So to me, it's not necessarily about individual games in a row, it's about what did those games as a collective unit get you.
I will give a great example..they waxed Butler on Sunday...so let's say they beat Nova tonight, and Creighton next week all in a row..Not only would that be what 8 of 9, but beating Nova, Creighton, Butler all consecutively, HAS to really raise their national profile. Now, change that to...beating DePaul, SJU and Georgetown all in a row making it also 8 of 9. That's quite different wouldn't you say?? Yes, it's still 8-9...but..the optics are WAY different at least on a National scale I'd say. In the end, you arrive in the same place, yes, but how you got there is what is different.
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Continuing to trend up in the Bracket Matrix. We jumped over Iowa and now hold the top 6 seed. Highest anyone has us seeded is 4 and the lowest is 7.
This is one of two things that have me baffled:
1) Penn State ahead of Kentucky
2) Marquette ahead of Iowa
On Saturday, the Selection Committee showed everyone the answer key. Since then, Kentucky and Iowa haven't done anything to change their status as "next teams up." Yet somehow, Penn State and Marquette are respectively ahead of them.
They showed you the answers! And you still went in and put the wrong answers down on your homework. WTF?!?
(Sorry, rant over)
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Mike, it's not always about how many in a row you win for me, it's about who did you beat in that span...to me that matters, others it may not. Also, let's not over look the fact that with 4 games to play MU needed ONE win to be Big East champs..1...that's it. Heck even as late as the last game of the year at home to a bad Georgetown team they still had a chance to be co champs..and didn't get it done. So to me, it's not necessarily about individual games in a row, it's about what did those games as a collective unit get you.
I will give a great example..they waxed Butler on Sunday...so let's say they beat Nova tonight, and Creighton next week all in a row..Not only would that be what 8 of 9, but beating Nova, Creighton, Butler all consecutively, HAS to really raise their national profile. Now, change that to...beating DePaul, SJU and Georgetown all in a row making it also 8 of 9. That's quite different wouldn't you say?? Yes, it's still 8-9...but..the optics are WAY different at least on a National scale I'd say. In the end, you arrive in the same place, yes, but how you got there is what is different.
Guru
If you believe this team is a top echelon team you will be disappointed most years. The team is playing well right now but has plenty of holes...they will be exploited at times the rest of the year.
I am enjoying watching the guys fight like hell to represent Marquette
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Nice try, I LIVE for the NCAA selection show, I'm well aware of how it works. Answer my question...if you're intelligent enough to do so..If team A takes care of their own business during the year, does it matter what your opponents do the rest of the way?? Especially if it's one's you shouldn't have lost to to begin with??
It makes ZERO difference...do what you need to do and what you can control as a team, and everything will be fine. In other words, win games...lots of them. It's very simple.
Except whether you win or lose, since there is no direct system of wins/losses to compare all 36X teams eligible, you have to base the tournament on things like strength of schedule. So even if we beat WI, the idea that we're better off if they make the tournament still stands.
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Mike, it's not always about how many in a row you win for me, it's about who did you beat in that span...to me that matters, others it may not. Also, let's not over look the fact that with 4 games to play MU needed ONE win to be Big East champs..1...that's it. Heck even as late as the last game of the year at home to a bad Georgetown team they still had a chance to be co champs..and didn't get it done. So to me, it's not necessarily about individual games in a row, it's about what did those games as a collective unit get you.
I will give a great example..they waxed Butler on Sunday...so let's say they beat Nova tonight, and Creighton next week all in a row..Not only would that be what 8 of 9, but beating Nova, Creighton, Butler all consecutively, HAS to really raise their national profile. Now, change that to...beating DePaul, SJU and Georgetown all in a row making it also 8 of 9. That's quite different wouldn't you say?? Yes, it's still 8-9...but..the optics are WAY different at least on a National scale I'd say. In the end, you arrive in the same place, yes, but how you got there is what is different.
guru, thanks for taking the time to explain your position better.
During our first 8-game winning streak last season, we beat teams that (at the time we played them) were ranked No. 12, No. 12 and No. 14. Also beat Louisville on a neutral court.
I would argue that wins over Louisville, K-State and Wisconsin (as well as three cupcakes) gave us lots of "positive momentum."
You claim that they "failed to get the job done" whenever they had some positive momentum going. But that's 6 straight wins, including 2 over top-12 teams and another over a good Louisville team ... and they DID then "get the job done" by soundly defeating a Buffalo team that had gotten a lot of national attention, one coached by a guy many Scoopers drool over. Won the next game, too, to run the streak to 8. My view: Got the job done. Yours: Failed because we then lost to St. John's.
After opening BEast play with that loss to St. John's, we started another 8-game streak -- one that would include 4 home games and 4 road games over Big East rivals. At any point during that streak, one could say MU had "some positive momentum." And at any point during the first 7 of those games, one could say we absolutely did NOT "fail to get the job done." But no, MU didn't win the 9th game, so, in your eyes, we failed (even though our heroes followed that with a 4-game winning streak).
Yes, we all know the Warriors fell apart down the stretch last season. In the end, yes, we absolutely failed to get it done. That sucked. But it doesn't mean we failed to get it done earlier in the season when we had "some positive momentum." Once you have to change the subject, the point you are trying to make is weakened.
As for your next point ...
Sure, let's say we win at Nova tonight, beat Creighton at home, win at Providence and beat Georgetown at home to run our winning streak to 7 games, improve our record to 21-6, stake a solid claim for a top-4 NCAA seed and all but clinch second place in the conference. But then let's say we lose a tough game to Seton Hall.
You will say that we got some positive momentum and then failed to get it done. I will say that we got positive momentum with wins at Xavier, over DePaul and over No. 13 Butler and then DID get it done by beating No. 15 Nova, No. 23 Creighton, and solid Providence and Georgetown teams.
I will look at the positive and, while always expecting victories, understand that even championship-level teams lose sometimes.
You will say Wojo failed again.
Again, guru, I appreciate you being willing to have a less-contentious conversation, but it's difficult to come to an agreement with somebody who just about always wants to pounce on the bad but usually seems to have trouble seeing the good.
So I guess we'll never really see eye-to-eye until my alma mater wins another national title.
Here's hoping we both live long enough to really agree!
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guru, thanks for taking the time to explain your position better.
During our first 8-game winning streak last season, we beat teams that (at the time we played them) were ranked No. 12, No. 12 and No. 14. Also beat Louisville on a neutral court.
I would argue that wins over Louisville, K-State and Wisconsin (as well as three cupcakes) gave us lots of "positive momentum."
You claim that they "failed to get the job done" whenever they had some positive momentum going. But that's 6 straight wins, including 2 over top-12 teams and another over a good Louisville team ... and they DID then "get the job done" by soundly defeating a Buffalo team that had gotten a lot of national attention, one coached by a guy many Scoopers drool over. Won the next game, too, to run the streak to 8. My view: Got the job done. Yours: Failed because we then lost to St. John's.
After opening BEast play with that loss to St. John's, we started another 8-game streak -- one that would include 4 home games and 4 road games over Big East rivals. At any point during that streak, one could say MU had "some positive momentum." And at any point during the first 7 of those games, one could say we absolutely did NOT "fail to get the job done." But no, MU didn't win the 9th game, so, in your eyes, we failed (even though our heroes followed that with a 4-game winning streak).
Yes, we all know the Warriors fell apart down the stretch last season. In the end, yes, we absolutely failed to get it done. That sucked. But it doesn't mean we failed to get it done earlier in the season when we had "some positive momentum." Once you have to change the subject, the point you are trying to make is weakened.
As for your next point ...
Sure, let's say we win at Nova tonight, beat Creighton at home, win at Providence and beat Georgetown at home to run our winning streak to 7 games, improve our record to 21-6, stake a solid claim for a top-4 NCAA seed and all but clinch second place in the conference. But then let's say we lose a tough game to Seton Hall.
You will say that we got some positive momentum and then failed to get it done. I will say that we got positive momentum with wins at Xavier, over DePaul and over No. 13 Butler and then DID get it done by beating No. 15 Nova, No. 23 Creighton, and solid Providence and Georgetown teams.
I will look at the positive and, while always expecting victories, understand that even championship-level teams lose sometimes.
You will say Wojo failed again.
Again, guru, I appreciate you being willing to have a less-contentious conversation, but it's difficult to come to an agreement with somebody who just about always wants to pounce on the bad but usually seems to have trouble seeing the good.
So I guess we'll never really see eye-to-eye until my alma mater wins another national title.
Here's hoping we both live long enough to really agree!
I don't think I am explaining myself well enough..so let me try a better way. Everything you say is 100% true. ANY winning streak is positive momentum, no doubt about it. But, I guess I'm talking more about what that individual game it self could potentially mean. In a lot of ways, yes it's all directly correlated as far as seeding etc. But...let's provide an example..last year, with as bad as that "collapse" at the end of the year was, they had one game remaining against a bad Georgetown team on MU's home floor. Not only that, they had just gotten help that day(with throngs of fans watching on TV in the lobbies, hooting and hollering).
So...yes, the stretch at the end absolutely sucked...BUT, you now have a chance, even after all of that to "right the wrong". Win ONE game, on your home floor against a bad team, with the Big East trophy on the line, and no one will remember or care about the losing streak prior.
Now let's take a look at tonight's game..one can look at it and say "it's just another game on the schedule" and a loss won't hurt them. Likely 100% true that a loss will not hurt them. However, it's what a win could get them(potentially) that is so meaningful. As another poster so distinctly put it...he's not scared of losing this game, he's scared of what this could potentially mean for MU's upside the rest of the year(probably not exactly that way, but that's the jist of it).
They are now ranked for the 1st time all year(not that that necessarily means a whole lot), tonight's game is on the road, and it's a chance(pending the results of Hall-Creighton), to either take sole possession of 2nd place...or stay in a tie for 2nd and move one game closer to Hall for 1st. These are the kinds of "moments" and games I was referring too. A win tonight and people nationally really start to talk about MU. Not to mention how the committee will view it etc.
If they lose, they will still have the nice winning streak they had put together prior, but...a GREAT opportunity will have been lost.
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Marquette is what their record says they are. So no losses or wins should be that big of a deal.
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It just seems ot me like whenever they have some positive momentum in their favor over the last couple of years and they have a chance to REALLY run with it...they have failed to get the job done. Again, I WANT the nation to start talking about MU, start respecting MU, start FEARING MU and anytime they have had the chance to cement themselves, they haven't gotten it done..I sure hope tomorrow night is the start of a turning of the corner.
I don't think I am explaining myself well enough..so let me try a better way. Everything you say is 100% true. ANY winning streak is positive momentum, no doubt about it. But, I guess I'm talking more about what that individual game it self could potentially mean. In a lot of ways, yes it's all directly correlated as far as seeding etc. But...let's provide an example..last year, with as bad as that "collapse" at the end of the year was, they had one game remaining against a bad Georgetown team on MU's home floor. Not only that, they had just gotten help that day(with throngs of fans watching on TV in the lobbies, hooting and hollering).
So...yes, the stretch at the end absolutely sucked...BUT, you now have a chance, even after all of that to "right the wrong". Win ONE game, on your home floor against a bad team, with the Big East trophy on the line, and no one will remember or care about the losing streak prior.
Now let's take a look at tonight's game..one can look at it and say "it's just another game on the schedule" and a loss won't hurt them. Likely 100% true that a loss will not hurt them. However, it's what a win could get them(potentially) that is so meaningful. As another poster so distinctly put it...he's not scared of losing this game, he's scared of what this could potentially mean for MU's upside the rest of the year(probably not exactly that way, but that's the jist of it).
They are now ranked for the 1st time all year(not that that necessarily means a whole lot), tonight's game is on the road, and it's a chance(pending the results of Hall-Creighton), to either take sole possession of 2nd place...or stay in a tie for 2nd and move one game closer to Hall for 1st. These are the kinds of "moments" and games I was referring too. A win tonight and people nationally really start to talk about MU. Not to mention how the committee will view it etc.
If they lose, they will still have the nice winning streak they had put together prior, but...a GREAT opportunity will have been lost.
So your example for their inability to build on positive momentum is a loss that was preceded by a 3 game losing streak?
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So your example for their inability to build on positive momentum is a loss that was preceded by a 3 game losing streak?
No, it's not really about momentum...that got lost in translation some how. I'm talking more about rising to the occasion when a big moment presents itself. Like the Georgetown game last year, like tonight's game.
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I don't think I am explaining myself well enough..so let me try a better way. Everything you say is 100% true. ANY winning streak is positive momentum, no doubt about it. But, I guess I'm talking more about what that individual game it self could potentially mean. In a lot of ways, yes it's all directly correlated as far as seeding etc. But...let's provide an example..last year, with as bad as that "collapse" at the end of the year was, they had one game remaining against a bad Georgetown team on MU's home floor. Not only that, they had just gotten help that day(with throngs of fans watching on TV in the lobbies, hooting and hollering).
So...yes, the stretch at the end absolutely sucked...BUT, you now have a chance, even after all of that to "right the wrong". Win ONE game, on your home floor against a bad team, with the Big East trophy on the line, and no one will remember or care about the losing streak prior.
Now let's take a look at tonight's game..one can look at it and say "it's just another game on the schedule" and a loss won't hurt them. Likely 100% true that a loss will not hurt them. However, it's what a win could get them(potentially) that is so meaningful. As another poster so distinctly put it...he's not scared of losing this game, he's scared of what this could potentially mean for MU's upside the rest of the year(probably not exactly that way, but that's the jist of it).
They are now ranked for the 1st time all year(not that that necessarily means a whole lot), tonight's game is on the road, and it's a chance(pending the results of Hall-Creighton), to either take sole possession of 2nd place...or stay in a tie for 2nd and move one game closer to Hall for 1st. These are the kinds of "moments" and games I was referring too. A win tonight and people nationally really start to talk about MU. Not to mention how the committee will view it etc.
If they lose, they will still have the nice winning streak they had put together prior, but...a GREAT opportunity will have been lost.
We both agree that it would have been lovely to have won that Georgetown game. Same with the Creighton game that Joey pretty much handed to our opponent. Same with any other game down the stretch. It all sucked, lost opportunities all, including the one in the tournament.
And yes, tonight's game presents a great opportunity. Like you, I hope we play better than Villanova does, play harder than they do, and make the big plays down the stretch if it's a close game.
People already have started to take notice; hence us going from unranked to #18 in one week's time. If we do manage to win it, yep, more will notice us. Kinda like last year. Then the next game becomes the HUGE ONE we have to win to keep it going. And then the one after that.
We are in agreement. I hope Marquette is up for the challenge. I think we will be. I also think Nova will be. Sources say they have a very good coach and a bunch of talented players, too.
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology
6 seed in Cleveland. Might be an unpopular opinion, but I'd rather be a six playing the winner of a Dayton game than a 5. Not so much because of the chance that the opponent would have tired legs, but that they would have 2 less days to scout/game plan for us, while we'd be able to watch their "first four" game and have more time to scout them.
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology
6 seed in Cleveland. Might be an unpopular opinion, but I'd rather be a six playing the winner of a Dayton game than a 5. Not so much because of the chance that the opponent would have tired legs, but that they would have 2 less days to scout/game plan for us, while we'd be able to watch their "first four" game and have more time to scout them.
I’m sure they’d have an assistant in charge of scouting Marquette. We’d probably have 2 coaches on one team and 2 on the other. I remember Buzz was not happy about being up against a Play-in team due to the scouting disadvantage.
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology
6 seed in Cleveland. Might be an unpopular opinion, but I'd rather be a six playing the winner of a Dayton game than a 5.
Not unpopular with me. I share it.
I'd also rather be a non-Dayton-game 11 seed than a 9 seed.
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This is one of two things that have me baffled:
1) Penn State ahead of Kentucky
2) Marquette ahead of Iowa
On Saturday, the Selection Committee showed everyone the answer key. Since then, Kentucky and Iowa haven't done anything to change their status as "next teams up." Yet somehow, Penn State and Marquette are respectively ahead of them.
They showed you the answers! And you still went in and put the wrong answers down on your homework. WTF?!?
(Sorry, rant over)
Umm mu beat butler and iowas has absolutely gotten their doors blown off twice. Why shouldnt MU be ahead of Iowa, what has iowa done this entire year that is impressive? Big ten overhyped because half the broadcasters and writers are big ten grads
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I also wouldn't hate this specific draw to get to the second weekend. As much as Press Virginia can be intimidating in the past, this team has lost to St. Johns and Kansas State.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology
6 seed in Cleveland. Might be an unpopular opinion, but I'd rather be a six playing the winner of a Dayton game than a 5. Not so much because of the chance that the opponent would have tired legs, but that they would have 2 less days to scout/game plan for us, while we'd be able to watch their "first four" game and have more time to scout them.
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I also wouldn't hate this specific draw to get to the second weekend. As much as Press Virginia can be intimidating in the past, this team has lost to St. Johns and Kansas State.
I would love to see Markus shred McCabe
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Umm mu beat butler and iowas has absolutely gotten their doors blown off twice. Why shouldnt MU be ahead of Iowa, what has iowa done this entire year that is impressive? Big ten overhyped because half the broadcasters and writers are big ten grads
In the Top-16 reveal, the Committee explicitly said Iowa was among three teams they considered for the top-16. At the time I posted that, all that had happened was Iowa won a game. Marquette beat Butler, but Iowa did nothing to jeopardize their standing.
Again, at the time, Iowa had more Q1A wins and the same number of Q1+2 wins as Marquette. I like Marquette's resume a little better, but that may be personal bias, the developments since (losing at Indiana sticks out), and prioritizing total Q1 wins, but when the Committee said "Iowa was right there" it means they were at worst 19th at the time and they won their next game.
I feel like anyone having MU ahead of Iowa is basically the kid who turned in their homework, the teacher corrected it & gave them another chance to turn it in using the answer key, and they still gave the wrong answer.
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In the Top-16 reveal, the Committee explicitly said Iowa was among three teams they considered for the top-16. At the time I posted that, all that had happened was Iowa won a game. Marquette beat Butler, but Iowa did nothing to jeopardize their standing.
Again, at the time, Iowa had more Q1A wins and the same number of Q1+2 wins as Marquette. I like Marquette's resume a little better, but that may be personal bias, the developments since (losing at Indiana sticks out), and prioritizing total Q1 wins, but when the Committee said "Iowa was right there" it means they were at worst 19th at the time and they won their next game.
I feel like anyone having MU ahead of Iowa is basically the kid who turned in their homework, the teacher corrected it & gave them another chance to turn it in using the answer key, and they still gave the wrong answer.
Sometimes it is not what a team did that drop, but what other teams do to leapfrog a team. MU beat Butler is much greater than Iowa avenging a horrible loss to Nebraska. Marquette's resume is better than Iowa's and it has nothing to do with bias. Iowa has a couple of bad losses and Marquette has none.
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How is butler ahead of Marquette?
Both beat Purdue
Same big east record
1 point loss with Baylor?
Split victories
2 seed lines?
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Sometimes it is not what a team did that drop, but what other teams do to leapfrog a team. MU beat Butler is much greater than Iowa avenging a horrible loss to Nebraska. Marquette's resume is better than Iowa's and it has nothing to do with bias. Iowa has a couple of bad losses and Marquette has none.
I get all that, and let me stress I'm making the distinction between my opinion and the Selection Committee's opinion.
I had Marquette ahead of Iowa before the reveal, but after they told us Iowa was in the mix for 16 and Marquette was not (by omission), the only logical conclusion was to keep Iowa ahead.
While both teams went 1-1 since, Marquette added a better win than Iowa did (Butler vs Nebraska) and that coupled with our improving NET and computer rankings are why I (spoiler alert) am moving Marquette ahead of Iowa in my new S-Curve. But as of when I posted what MSK quoted, there was no logical way I could see putting Marquette ahead of Iowa based on what the Selection Committee had just told us.
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Thought this would be an interesting question for anyone that wants to answer...As a fan, do you have a preference as far as time slot/day of the week you prefer MU play in the NCAA's?? For me, IF I'm going to a site, I absolutely prefer a Thursday/Sat pod. If I'm not, I almost prefer they play on Friday in the afternoon or anytime in the evening. That way I can enjoy a day of the tourney without having to worry about MU's game. I really liked the late Friday tip a few years ago against South Carolina.
One thing I absolutely do not like/want is one of the first tips Thursday(if I'm not going to the site). To me, if you lose that game, it's almost like you weren't even in the tourney then.
Do you all have any preferences??
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Thought this would be an interesting question for anyone that wants to answer...As a fan, do you have a preference as far as time slot/day of the week you prefer MU play in the NCAA's?? For me, IF I'm going to a site, I absolutely prefer a Thursday/Sat pod. If I'm not, I almost prefer they play on Friday in the afternoon or anytime in the evening. That way I can enjoy a day of the tourney without having to worry about MU's game. I really liked the late Friday tip a few years ago against South Carolina.
One thing I absolutely do not like/want is one of the first tips Thursday(if I'm not going to the site). To me, if you lose that game, it's almost like you weren't even in the tourney then.
Do you all have any preferences??
I feel pretty much the same. Hoping it’s Thursday this year because I’ll probably hop in the car for the Saturday game if they would win the first. Some pretty close sites to Milwaukee this year.
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Thought this would be an interesting question for anyone that wants to answer...As a fan, do you have a preference as far as time slot/day of the week you prefer MU play in the NCAA's?? For me, IF I'm going to a site, I absolutely prefer a Thursday/Sat pod. If I'm not, I almost prefer they play on Friday in the afternoon or anytime in the evening. That way I can enjoy a day of the tourney without having to worry about MU's game. I really liked the late Friday tip a few years ago against South Carolina.
One thing I absolutely do not like/want is one of the first tips Thursday(if I'm not going to the site). To me, if you lose that game, it's almost like you weren't even in the tourney then.
Do you all have any preferences??
Thursday is always when I go out with my group of friends, so I would rather see Marquette then as I enjoy watching that game with a crowd. But not a huge difference to me. I expect to be off the entire time anyway.
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Thought this would be an interesting question for anyone that wants to answer...As a fan, do you have a preference as far as time slot/day of the week you prefer MU play in the NCAA's?? For me, IF I'm going to a site, I absolutely prefer a Thursday/Sat pod. If I'm not, I almost prefer they play on Friday in the afternoon or anytime in the evening. That way I can enjoy a day of the tourney without having to worry about MU's game. I really liked the late Friday tip a few years ago against South Carolina.
One thing I absolutely do not like/want is one of the first tips Thursday(if I'm not going to the site). To me, if you lose that game, it's almost like you weren't even in the tourney then.
Do you all have any preferences??
You are a glass half empty guy. I love early tip off on Thursday, because when they win, you get two days to revel in the win and watch other teams have to go home early.
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My preference is Thursday early evening, Saturday afternoon.
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I feel pretty much the same. Hoping it’s Thursday this year because I’ll probably hop in the car for the Saturday game if they would win the first. Some pretty close sites to Milwaukee this year.
Exactly this..don't like traveling to Friday/Sunday sites. LOVE the Thursday/Saturday because depending on how you like to do things, when games are over Saturday, you can hop in the car and head home and get home Late Sat night/early Sunday and you have the whole day Sunday to then relax before going back to work Monday.
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Thursday is always when I go out with my group of friends, so I would rather see Marquette then as I enjoy watching that game with a crowd. But not a huge difference to me. I expect to be off the entire time anyway.
I too am always off..but still like when they play on Fridays then, I think. Or if it's Thursday, in the evening.
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In 2013, we beat Davidson on Thursday afternoon. The fact that we won - even if it was a little too exciting - made the whole rest of Thursday, all of Friday and the first part of Saturday great. Then, we won on Saturday, too, and it made the whole rest of the weekend spectacular.
Because I am an optimist by nature, I would love to play early Thursday, get the win, and just enjoy the heck out of the next couple of days.
But yes, if lightning strikes and we happen to lose early Thursday, it would suck. Like guru says, it pretty much ruins the entire tournament for me, especially that first weekend.
If we knew our Warriors were gonna lose, I'd prefer to play Friday's very last game. But we don't know that, and I expect victory, so Thursday's my preference.
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In 2013, we beat Davidson on Thursday afternoon. The fact that we won - even if it was a little too exciting - made the whole rest of Thursday, all of Friday and the first part of Saturday great. Then, we won on Saturday, too, and it made the whole rest of the weekend spectacular.
Because I am an optimist by nature, I would love to play early Thursday, get the win, and just enjoy the heck out of the next couple of days.
But yes, if lightning strikes and we happen to lose early Thursday, it would suck. Like guru says, it pretty much ruins the entire tournament for me, especially that first weekend.
If we knew our Warriors were gonna lose, I'd prefer to play Friday's very last game. But we don't know that, and I expect victory, so Thursday's my preference.
Like you, I prefer early Thursday, early Saturday. If we lose I don’t enjoy the games that follow very much - but if I’m waiting all day Thursday and Friday for us to play I don’t much enjoy the early games either. But if we win early (as I expect we will this year) The whole tournament is much more fun.
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I too am always off..but still like when they play on Fridays then, I think. Or if it's Thursday, in the evening.
Ditto. I'm also off during the conference tournament week of Thur/Fri. Truth be told, I like that week better.
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What's this Saturday/Sunday game people are speaking of? Not familiar.
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How is butler ahead of Marquette?
Both beat Purdue
Same big east record
1 point loss with Baylor?
Split victories
2 seed lines?
Butler has a better record (19-6 vs 17-7)
Butler has a better record away from home (7-4 vs 5-6)
Butler has a higher NET (12 vs 20)
Butler has a better Q1 record (8-5 vs 6-6)
The one area we have a real advantage is SOS (5 vs 45) and the margins of victory in our head to head matchups. We could pass them but we probably need to win at least 2 more games than they do the rest of the way, possibly more.
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Umm mu beat butler and iowas has absolutely gotten their doors blown off twice. Why shouldnt MU be ahead of Iowa, what has iowa done this entire year that is impressive? Big ten overhyped because half the broadcasters and writers are big ten grads
Brew is right about the selection show but I've gotta agree with Sand Knit here too. I think our resume is obviously better.
Record: Advantage MU (17-7 vs 17-8)
NET: Advantage MU (20 vs 30)
SOS: Advantage MU (5 vs 66)
Away from home record: Advantage MU (5-6 vs 5-7)
Q1 Record: Advantage MU (6-6 vs 5-6)
Q2 Record: Push
Q3 Record: Advantage MU (1-0 vs 1-1)
Q4 Record: Push
Where they get us is best wins. Their two best wins (Maryland at home, Texas Tech on neutral court) are both better than our best win (Butler at home). Personally, I wouldn't say that's enough to put them over us, but I could definitely be wrong.
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Brew is right about the selection show but I've gotta agree with Sand Knit here too. I think our resume is obviously better.
Record: Advantage MU (17-7 vs 17-8)
NET: Advantage MU (20 vs 30)
SOS: Advantage MU (5 vs 66)
Away from home record: Advantage MU (5-6 vs 5-7)
Q1 Record: Advantage MU (6-6 vs 5-6)
Q2 Record: Push
Q3 Record: Advantage MU (1-0 vs 1-1)
Q4 Record: Push
Where they get us is best wins. Their two best wins (Maryland at home, Texas Tech on neutral court) are both better than our best win (Butler at home). Personally, I wouldn't say that's enough to put them over us, but I could definitely be wrong.
This also stresses why recent results matter. If Iowa wins at Indiana, they would have the better record and better Q1 record. That was a good result for us last night. Also noticed that Garza posted 38 in the loss. Another example of a NPOY candidate stuffing stats and losing, something Markus doesn't really do.
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Ummm.....
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401168414
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Ummm.....
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401168414
Fair point, but losing by 1 in OT is not the same as getting blown out. Iowa was never in that game last night.
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Tamu,
Thank you on the butler perspective.
I was hoping strength of schedule and head to head points help more than a game.
Appreciate the quick analysis.
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Ummm.....
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401168414
You cherry pick one example, which is also the ONLY example (and a 1-point loss in overtime, at that). Marquette is 9-1 when Howard scores 30+. When the other 9 NPOY candidates score 30+, their teams are a combined 7-6. Howard goes off, Marquette is virtually assured a win. Anyone else, it's pretty much a coin flip if it helps the team or not.
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You cherry pick one example, which is also the ONLY example (and a 1-point loss in overtime, at that). Marquette is 9-1 when Howard scores 30+. When the other 9 NPOY candidates score 30+, their teams are a combined 7-6. Howard goes off, Marquette is virtually assured a win. Anyone else, it's pretty much a coin flip if it helps the team or not.
Easy Brew; just pointing out that I don't think that team success should necessarily relate to NPOTY voting. I love when Markus goes off, because like you said it usually means we win, but I also won't take points away from others because their team loses.
Markus would have my vote, if I had one, but Garza's 38 against I4 was impressive no matter how you look at it (14-22 from the floor, 3-6 from 3, 7-8 from the line). He shouldn't get docked because his teammates went 1-8 from 3, the same way that Markus shouldn't be docked when he put up 30+ but his teammates went 2-16 from 3 against DePaul (had we lost that game). Markus is putting together an incredible season, but that doesn't mean that other's aren't also.
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You are a glass half empty guy. I love early tip off on Thursday, because when they win, you get two days to revel in the win and watch other teams have to go home early.
Or it absolutely ruins the best two days of college basketball all season for you. This year I am hoping for Thursday night because I am going to sportsbook with some friends on Friday. Would rather watch MU game at home. But generally speaking, give me Friday afternoon or evening all day long over a Thursday game.
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Or it absolutely ruins the best two days of college basketball all season for you. This year I am hoping for Thursday night because I am going to sportsbook with some friends on Friday. Would rather watch MU game at home. But generally speaking, give me Friday afternoon or evening all day long over a Thursday game.
+1000 as I said, give me at least ONE day to enjoy the tournament before worrying about MU's game.
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+1000 as I said, give me at least ONE day to enjoy the tournament before worrying about MU's game.
im already nervous thinking about it
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Like you, I prefer early Thursday, early Saturday. If we lose I don’t enjoy the games that follow very much - but if I’m waiting all day Thursday and Friday for us to play I don’t much enjoy the early games either. But if we win early (as I expect we will this year) The whole tournament is much more fun.
I like the way you think, Lenny!
Although, I love the entire tournament, so if we get a Friday game, I spend all Thursday watching. And the fact that Marquette goes the next day only makes me anticipate it more.
All things being equal, though, I prefer exactly what you said. Including the win and the fun!
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I really feel at worst we will be a 5 seed. I really cannot see Howard not getting at least 2 wins in the ncaa tournament. Maybe I am optimistic but I feel good about the rest of the schedule. I think a nice win streak and going to at least the BET championship would land us a 3/4 line.
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I really feel at worst we will be a 5 seed. I really cannot see Howard not getting at least 2 wins in the ncaa tournament. Maybe I am optimistic but I feel good about the rest of the schedule. I think a nice win streak and going to at least the BET championship would land us a 3/4 line.
You’re being optimistic........4-7 is the likely range. None would shock me in the slightest.
Let’s win 1 ncaa game before we start thinking 2 is a lock......all it takes is a bad game or a bad matchup and you’re out......
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How is butler ahead of Marquette?
Both beat Purdue
Same big east record
1 point loss with Baylor?
Split victories
2 seed lines?
I really think Butler is an average team. The problem I have with any rating system is it does not discount November games. Some teams are just more ready to play in November and they beat teams that they would not beat now. Michigan and Ohio St. are teams that looked really good in November. Maybe even Michigan St. Every time Wisconsin plays/beats one of these teams their net improves even if these teams are not as good now. It is really hard to determine how good a conference is, because teams change so much after the conference season starts.
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Last #5 seed(20 overall) on Lunardi's seed list this morning..
https://twitter.com/ESPNLunardi/status/1229066257296711682/photo/1
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I really feel at worst we will be a 5 seed. I really cannot see Howard not getting at least 2 wins in the ncaa tournament. Maybe I am optimistic but I feel good about the rest of the schedule. I think a nice win streak and going to at least the BET championship would land us a 3/4 line.
You're being optimistic. I don't know how anyone can say at LEAST 2 wins in the NCAA tournament without knowing our seed, and more importantly who we are playing. If it is a team that is long and athletic, that poses different challenges than a team that might be more perimeter-oriented and guard-heavy.
Matchups are critical.
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I really think Butler is an average team. The problem I have with any rating system is it does not discount November games. Some teams are just more ready to play in November and they beat teams that they would not beat now. Michigan and Ohio St. are teams that looked really good in November. Maybe even Michigan St. Every time Wisconsin plays/beats one of these teams their net improves even if these teams are not as good now. It is really hard to determine how good a conference is, because teams change so much after the conference season starts.
That's fair, but some of these rating systems have an option to examine the last 10 or 15 games to account for recency of play. I don't think we should discount what happens in November either....those games count like any other game, but to your point it may not illustrate level of play going into the tournament.
Let me give you an example with Sagarin.
He has MU rated 18th overall. But in his "recent" ratings, MU is 13th.
Butler he has 43rd overall....but in the recent ratings he has them 58th.
He has Creighton recency ratings at 9th. That's the game that scares me the most right now.
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That's fair, but some of these rating systems have an option to examine the last 10 or 15 games to account for recency of play. I don't think we should discount what happens in November either....those games count like any other game, but to your point it may not illustrate level of play going into the tournament.
Let me give you an example with Sagarin.
He has MU rated 18th overall. But in his "recent" ratings, MU is 13th.
Butler he has 43rd overall....but in the recent ratings he has them 58th.
He has Creighton recency ratings at 9th. That's the game that scares me the most right now.
This isn’t politically correct but fu*k Creighton. We must make them bow down
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This isn’t politically correct but fu*k Creighton. We must make them bow down
Not a good matchup for us in my opinion.
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Not a good matchup for us in my opinion.
Perhaps not, but Markus is never a good matchup for them either... hopefully the crowd is vibrant.
I would’ve never guessed that Creighton would be doing this well when this game came up on the calendar. I think it’s a great opportunity for a marquee win at a good point in the season
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Top 6 seed at NBC/Bracketville
https://bracketville.wordpress.com/bracketology/
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I really think Butler is an average team. The problem I have with any rating system is it does not discount November games. Some teams are just more ready to play in November and they beat teams that they would not beat now. Michigan and Ohio St. are teams that looked really good in November. Maybe even Michigan St. Every time Wisconsin plays/beats one of these teams their net improves even if these teams are not as good now. It is really hard to determine how good a conference is, because teams change so much after the conference season starts.
TRank factors that in. Anything in the last 40 days is weighted 100%. It then goes down by 1% each day, bottoming out at 60%. So even if no new games were played, teams like Butler with early season success would see their ratings slip these next few weeks.
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Top 6 seed at NBC/Bracketville
https://bracketville.wordpress.com/bracketology/
against Rhode Island first round would be tough
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Latest BracketMatrix
http://www.bracketmatrix.com/
Best 6 seed
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Nova as a 4 seed is borderline criminal.
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Looks we are settling in to a spot between 5 and 7 seed. Yes that is 12 spots so a wide range.
I am typically optimistic. But I think we go 3-3 to finish the season and end up with a 7 seed.
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Looks we are settling in to a spot between 5 and 7 seed. Yes that is 12 spots so a wide range.
I am typically optimistic. But I think we go 3-3 to finish the season and end up with a 7 seed.
I think we'd still get a 6 at 3-3
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I think we'd still get a 6 at 3-3
Awe shizzzz I’ll take that. Let me jump over to TRank
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Gave us 3-3.
Depending on who the L’s are to (obviously) we are between the first 6 and the 2nd 7.
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Gave us 3-3.
Depending on who the L’s are to (obviously) we are between the first 6 and the 2nd 7.
Let's just go 4-2 then.
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Nova as a 4 seed is borderline criminal.
In which direction?
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Looks we are settling in to a spot between 5 and 7 seed. Yes that is 12 spots so a wide range.
I am typically optimistic. But I think we go 3-3 to finish the season and end up with a 7 seed.
No way are we a 7 at 3-3.
Even if we win the 3 "worst" games. Thats still a pair of road wins.
We actually still have a really good shot at a 4 seed(if we can win the games). 4-2 with 3 home wins(2 being Q1) and a Q1 road win puts us right in the convo.
Gonna be tough to do that tho
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Without going 5-1 or one of the current 4 seeds tanking in the last few games, I'm not sure I see a path to a 4 seed. I think the 5 and 6 seeds are pretty clumped but I think the top 4 seed lines are starting to separate themselves and their just isn't that many opportunities for them to stumble. Looking at bracketmatrix, the 4 seeds are currently Penn State, Nova, Oregon, and Creighton. Combined, those 4 teams have 14 Q1, 6 Q2, and 2 Q3 games remaining. They won't get punished for losing the Q1 games and won't get that hurt by Q2 losses. So unless Oregon loses to Cal or Penn State loses to Northwestern, we are going to have outplay them but multiple games down the stretch to pass them.
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Without going 5-1 or one of the current 4 seeds tanking in the last few games, I'm not sure I see a path to a 4 seed. I think the 5 and 6 seeds are pretty clumped but I think the top 4 seed lines are starting to separate themselves and their just isn't that many opportunities for them to stumble. Looking at bracketmatrix, the 4 seeds are currently Penn State, Nova, Oregon, and Creighton. Combined, those 4 teams have 14 Q1, 6 Q2, and 2 Q3 games remaining. They won't get punished for losing the Q1 games and won't get that hurt by Q2 losses. So unless Oregon loses to Cal or Penn State loses to Northwestern, we are going to have outplay them but multiple games down the stretch to pass them.
Let's start with us beating Creighton by 20 or so tomorrow!
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology
5 playing in Tampa. Also appears that 8 Beast teams is still very much in the picture.
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology
5 playing in Tampa. Also appears that 8 Beast teams is still very much in the picture.
Considering I will be in Tampa, I would take that. Nova on the other side too. Nice!
So, it won't happen.
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4 brackets have us at a 7 seed on bracketmatrix and 1 has us at a 4 seed
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I feel like there is a small area to slip up (difference between 6 and 7 seed), i would like our chances way more if we were a 5/6 rather than a 7
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology
5 playing in Tampa. Also appears that 8 Beast teams is still very much in the picture.
I would love that draw.
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I would love that draw.
Seriously, auburn team struggling away from home. Hall having locker room issues, SDSU not having played a real team in awhile, and duke who id hope Wojo is intimately familiar with.
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One thing i did find interesting is that on TRank, it is comparing our resume to UConn 2014 team which went on to win the chip
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During the selection show last year, CBS threw up a graphic that in the last 34 years, 6-seeds have a .625 win pctg in the round of 64 (85-51). 5-seeds are .654% (89-47).
If you can snag that 4-seed, it jumps to .794% (108-28).
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During the selection show last year, CBS threw up a graphic that in the last 34 years, 6-seeds have a .625 win pctg in the round of 64 (85-51). 5-seeds are .654% (89-47).
If you can snag that 4-seed, it jumps to .794% (108-28).
If you gon on TRank, if we lose only one game the rest of the regular season we would be a 4 seed
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Looks we are settling in to a spot between 5 and 7 seed. Yes that is 12 spots so a wide range.
I am typically optimistic. But I think we go 3-3 to finish the season and end up with a 7 seed.
3-3?? Who in the hell are you seeing three losses against?? That would be an unmitigated disaster given who is left on their schedule after tonight. If they win tonight, I honestly think there's a better chance they win out then to go 3-3. 3-3 would mean losing to one of...@ PC, @ SJU, @ DuhPaul, Georgetown at home, and that's assuming you feel like they will lose to Hall and Creighton...If they lose one of those other remaining games...you're god damn right it would be inexcusable.
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Hair, meet fire.
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3-3?? Who in the hell are you seeing three losses against?? That would be an unmitigated disaster given who is left on their schedule after tonight. If they win tonight, I honestly think there's a better chance they win out then to go 3-3. 3-3 would mean losing to one of...@ PC, @ SJU, @ DuhPaul, Georgetown at home, and that's assuming you feel like they will lose to Hall and Creighton...If they lose one of those other remaining games...you're god damn right it would be inexcusable.
We are 1-5 since the start of the new Big East @ St. John's...no road game is ever a lock and certainly not an "unmitigated disaster"
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We are 1-5 since the start of the new Big East @ St. John's...no road game is ever a lock and certainly not an "unmitigated disaster"
Different year, different teams...Shamori Ponds ain't walking through that door. Nor is Mustapha Heron for that matter.
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I also like that ESPN bracketology draw. I see a real path to the Elite 8.
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3-3?? Who in the hell are you seeing three losses against?? That would be an unmitigated disaster given who is left on their schedule after tonight. If they win tonight, I honestly think there's a better chance they win out then to go 3-3. 3-3 would mean losing to one of...@ PC, @ SJU, @ DuhPaul, Georgetown at home, and that's assuming you feel like they will lose to Hall and Creighton...If they lose one of those other remaining games...you're god damn right it would be inexcusable.
Whoa. Settle down.
Inexcusable? I never said that. I can certainly see L’s against Creighton, Seton hall and possibly even at St Johns.
I’m a realist. And realistically we should have won some games we lost. And should have lost a few we won. So I can see us losing some of these 3.
You on the other hand think unrealistically. So not surprised by your response.
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5 of the 6 remaining games are essentially pick ems. I would be disappointed with 3-3 but would have a hard time calling it an unmitigated disaster. I think 3-3 gets us a 6 seed. 4-2 a 5 seed. 5-1 gives us a shot at a 4 seed but would probably need some help
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Whoa. Settle down.
Inexcusable? I never said that. I can certainly see L’s against Creighton, Seton hall and possibly even at St Johns.
I’m a realist. And realistically we should have won some games we lost. And should have lost a few we won. So I can see us losing some of these 3.
You on the other hand think unrealistically. So not surprised by your response.
Agree, come out of these 4-2 and I would count that as a "win".
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Agree, come out of these 4-2 and I would count that as a "win".
Loser!
We need to win 7 of these last 6 to avoid ...
UNMITIGATED DISASTER!
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Hahaha, don't forget we still have a chance to blow it in the Big East Tourney too. ;D
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Im sticking with my pick of 12-6 reg season..... oh yea, and Win tonite +11 ! ! ! 8-)
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Losing a college basketball game has never been and never will be a disaster
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3-3?? Who in the hell are you seeing three losses against?? That would be an unmitigated disaster given who is left on their schedule after tonight. If they win tonight, I honestly think there's a better chance they win out then to go 3-3. 3-3 would mean losing to one of...@ PC, @ SJU, @ DuhPaul, Georgetown at home, and that's assuming you feel like they will lose to Hall and Creighton...If they lose one of those other remaining games...you're god damn right it would be inexcusable.
If we win tonight, I'd agree. But tonight is a toss up. At PC is a toss up. SH is a toss up. @ SJU is a toss up. I'd assume we win 2/4 toss ups plus GT and @ DePaul. So give me 4-2, but 3-3 would not surprise at all.
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Losing a college basketball game has never been and never will be a disaster
What about losing the eye test though?
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What about losing the eye test though?
I’m too young to understand the eye test
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I’m too young to understand the eye test
We've been ruined by computers.
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Hair, meet fire.
Simmer down there, Malek Harris.
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Simmer down there, Malek Harris.
This is why I come to scoop
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Made me chuckle.
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I’m too young to understand the eye test
You might not be too young, and you understand what it's all about...but you just probably aren't all that good at it. It takes a lot of experience/knowledge to be good at it, and trusting what you're seeing is accurate and also the key is to know what to look for.
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This is why I come to scoop
+5555
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You might not be too young, and you understand what it's all about...but you just probably aren't all that good at it. It takes a lot of experience/knowledge to be good at it, and trusting what you're seeing is accurate and also the key is to know what to look for.
I’m quite confident in my ability to use the eye test and advanced metrics
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If we win tonight, I'd agree. But tonight is a toss up. At PC is a toss up. SH is a toss up. @ SJU is a toss up. I'd assume we win 2/4 toss ups plus GT and @ DePaul. So give me 4-2, but 3-3 would not surprise at all.
If you venture over to Ken Pom which everyone here uses as gospel for everything(and he has a fantastic site), and you look at his game by game results, he too has MU winning out, even tonight.
They are favored tonight, will be favored in the next two home games(and well they should be, not just because they are at home), may or may not be favored in any of the road games but ARE better then SJU, DePaul and Providence...Let's assume( I know, I know) they win the 3 home games(that's what you are supposed to do), then one has to believe they get swept in 3 road games against 3 teams in the lower half of the standings, including the two at the very bottom. Losing any of those should NEVER happen(at least this year), especially if MU realizes what it could possibly be playing for the rest of the year. Who knows how high their seed might be if they win out the rest of the regular season??
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If you venture over to Ken Pom which everyone here uses as gospel for everything(and he has a fantastic site), and you look at his game by game results, he too has MU winning out, even tonight.
They are favored tonight, will be favored in the next two home games(and well they should be, not just because they are at home), may or may not be favored in any of the road games but ARE better then SJU, DePaul and Providence...Let's assume( I know, I know) they win the 3 home games(that's what you are supposed to do), then one has to believe they get swept in 3 road games against 3 teams in the lower half of the standings, including the two at the very bottom. Losing any of those should NEVER happen(at least this year), especially if MU realizes what it could possibly be playing for the rest of the year. Who knows how high their seed might be if they win out the rest of the regular season??
You're correct he has us as a favorite in every game. And rightfully so.
However, if you understand how probabilities work, which I'm sure you do, then you'll see that the most likely outcome over the next 6 games is 4-2. That's why he also projects our record to be 11-7.
The second most likely outcome? 3-3.
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I’m quite confident in my ability to use the eye test and advanced metrics
It's okay to use metrics for some things, but the question I always ask everyone...the numbers may tell you how well the guy is shooting this year, or what his turnover rate is etc..but NONE of that tells you how talented the player is...that's what I'm talking about numbers don't tell the whole story. Only the eyes can tell you how physically talented a player is...what do you think scouting was built on??
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My eye test tells me that winning against a team that has already beat us on our home floor, and just beat the conference leaders will be very difficult, especially on their home floor. Nothing is guaranteed, nothing should be taken for granted.
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If you venture over to Ken Pom which everyone here uses as gospel for everything(and he has a fantastic site), and you look at his game by game results, he too has MU winning out, even tonight.
They are favored tonight, will be favored in the next two home games(and well they should be, not just because they are at home), may or may not be favored in any of the road games but ARE better then SJU, DePaul and Providence...Let's assume( I know, I know) they win the 3 home games(that's what you are supposed to do), then one has to believe they get swept in 3 road games against 3 teams in the lower half of the standings, including the two at the very bottom. Losing any of those should NEVER happen(at least this year), especially if MU realizes what it could possibly be playing for the rest of the year. Who knows how high their seed might be if they win out the rest of the regular season??
You don’t understand metrics by what you said. KenPom does not have us winning out. Sigh. Those are probabilities of winning each game. The probability of winning out is low if you understand how this all works.
See binomial distribution....
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It's okay to use metrics for some things, but the question I always ask everyone...the numbers may tell you how well the guy is shooting this year, or what his turnover rate is etc..but NONE of that tells you how talented the player is...that's what I'm talking about numbers don't tell the whole story. Only the eyes can tell you how physically talented a player is...what do you think scouting was built on??
Scouting was built on many things and good scouts augment their knowledge
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I would be very happy if we got the draw thats on bracketville
https://bracketville.wordpress.com/bracketology/
this was posted prior to the loss to creighton
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http://m.espn.com/ncb/bracketology?iteration=234®ion=2&year=2020
New update from Joe. I’ll take this 7 days of the week
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http://m.espn.com/ncb/bracketology?iteration=234®ion=2&year=2020
New update from Joe. I’ll take this 7 days of the week
Auburn would kick the living sh*t out of Marquette.
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Auburn would kick the living sh*t out of Marquette.
Of the projected 4 seeds, I think Auburn is the worst.
Doubt we get a 5 seed though so probably doesn't matter.
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Of the projected 4 seeds, I think Auburn is the worst.
Doubt we get a 5 seed though so probably doesn't matter.
I rather be a 6 or 7 seed than the dreaded 5 seed.
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Of the projected 4 seeds, I think Auburn is the worst.
Doubt we get a 5 seed though so probably doesn't matter.
That could be, but they have the type of personnel that would give MU fits.
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I rather be a 6 or 7 seed than the dreaded 5 seed.
You rather be a 7 or a 5?
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i would gladly switch places with michigan state in that bracket too
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology
5 playing in Tampa. Also appears that 8 Beast teams is still very much in the picture.
If I was SDSU, that draw would be worrisome. North Florida would be a pain-in-the-ass first round opponent. They take more threes and get more points from three than anyone, and they are second in the nation in limiting three-point attempts defensively. Basically, they are going to take and make a ton of threes and not let you take any.
It's still a 1/16, so I wouldn't lay money on the Osprey, but I wouldn't want anything to do with UNF in round one.
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Highest seed we are is 5 on bracketmatrix. Fell to the 2nd highest 6 seed behind arizona
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https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2020/02/20/college-basketball-bracketology-projecting-field-68-teams-march-madness-big-east/4817523002/
lots of BE love from USAToday
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https://twitter.com/ESPNLunardi/status/1230559374554234884/photo/1
6 seed/ 22 on the s curve in today's update.
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https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2876930-how-much-does-seeding-really-matter-in-the-mens-ncaa-tournament
Solid read.
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https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2876930-how-much-does-seeding-really-matter-in-the-mens-ncaa-tournament
Solid read.
So not a crapshoot...mostly.
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So not a crapshoot...mostly.
There’s a chance!
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Auburn would kick the living sh*t out of Marquette.
Wait, what? Auburn is grossly overrated this year. They would be a gift for MU.
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Wait, what? Auburn is grossly overrated this year. They would be a gift for MU.
Eh. I agree they are overrated and not great but also agree with 12 that their personnel would give MU fits. I'm not sure we'd score much.
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https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/bracketology/
would not love this draw
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology
Holy crap this would be bad.
ETSU is one of the best mid-major teams outside of Gonzaga and SDSU. Then Florida St's length? We'd be toast.
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I hate the fact that this is the second year in a row, I have to be nervous as a 5/6 seed in the first round. Unreal.
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I hate the fact that this is the second year in a row, I have to be nervous as a 5/6 seed in the first round. Unreal.
Yeah it's frustrating, never been here before. Not during that stretch from 06-11. Nope we were better than 7, 8, 6, 6, 6, 11. And never had to be nervous because we kept getting certain second weekend appearances.
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NBC Bracketville has MU as a 7 seed. They have consistently been one of the outlets that has MU a slightly worse seed than some others.
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Yeah it's frustrating, never been here before. Not during that stretch from 06-11. Nope we were better than 7, 8, 6, 6, 6, 11. And never had to be nervous because we kept getting certain second weekend appearances.
06 - 7 seed (L)
07 - 8 (L)
08 - 6 (WL)
09 - 6 (WL)
10 - 6 (L by 2)
11 - 11 (WWL)
12 - 3 (WWL)
13 - 3 (WWWL)
Only bad one is '10. I'll take one bad one if we make the tourney 8 times in a row.
Just asking for one tourney win with the school's leading scorer isn't a lot to ask for.
15 - N/A
16 - N/A
17- 10 (L)
18 - N/A
19 - 5 (L by 20)
20 - TBD should be a 5-7 seed.
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06 - 7 seed (L)
07 - 8 (L)
08 - 6 (WL)
09 - 6 (WL)
10 - 6 (L by 2)
11 - 11 (WWL)
12 - 3 (WWL)
13 - 3 (WWWL)
Only bad one is '10. I'll take one bad one if we make the tourney 8 times in a row.
Just asking for one tourney win with the school's leading scorer isn't a lot to ask for.
15 - N/A
16 - N/A
17- 10 (L)
18 - N/A
19 - 5 (L by 20)
20 - TBD should be a 5-7 seed.
Why're you including 12 and 13? I didn't mention those.
And why is 10 the only bad one? If you're a 7 or 8 seed are you not supposed to win as you're the higher seed?
I'm just saying, maybe wait till the tournament because given your posting history these past couple years you were likely flipping a sh*t about 2011 but now you're perfectly content with that season let alone 06, 07, 08, 09. Who's to say it won't be the same?
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Why're you including 12 and 13? I didn't mention those.
And why is 10 the only bad one? If you're a 7 or 8 seed are you not supposed to win as you're the higher seed?
I'm just saying, maybe wait till the tournament because given your posting history these past couple years you were likely flipping a sh*t about 2011 but now you're perfectly content with that season let alone 06, 07, 08, 09. Who's to say it won't be the same?
I included every single year since 06 for completeness. Because 7/10 and 8/9 matchups are much closer to #crapshoots (big Scoop term) than 6/11, 5/12 matchups. I wouldn't be fine with losing as a 7 but I'll compromise with the rest of you lots. I just expect us to not need to worry about a 5/12 or 6/11 matchup, yet were out here afraid of some teams because we could have a good possibility of losing.
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06 - 7 seed (L)
07 - 8 (L)
08 - 6 (WL)
09 - 6 (WL)
10 - 6 (L by 2)
11 - 11 (WWL)
12 - 3 (WWL)
13 - 3 (WWWL)
Only bad one is '10. I'll take one bad one if we make the tourney 8 times in a row.
Just asking for one tourney win with the school's leading scorer isn't a lot to ask for.
15 - N/A
16 - N/A
17- 10 (L)
18 - N/A
19 - 5 (L by 20)
20 - TBD should be a 5-7 seed.
FWIW, we only over performed our seed twice in those 8 years (2011 and 13), played to seed three times (08, 09, and '12), and underperformed our seed three times (06, 07, and '10).
Under Wojo we've underperformed once ('19) and performed to seed once ('17). We're due to over-perform once now!
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Yeah I’m with Galway. Why weren’t you upset when we were a 7 and lost j in n the first round.
Your goalposts kinda moved after your original statement.
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I included every single year since 06 for completeness. Because 7/10 and 8/9 matchups are much closer to #crapshoots (big Scoop term) than 6/11, 5/12 matchups. I wouldn't be fine with losing as a 7 but I'll compromise with the rest of you lots. I just expect us to not need to worry about a 5/12 or 6/11 matchup, yet were out here afraid of some teams because we could have a good possibility of losing.
Idk how one seed line can be "much closer" to being a crapshoot, but if that's what you want...
I expect us to not worry about it as well, but I reiterate my point about seeing how it plays out since we hovered around this same point seed wise for 6/8 years of that run. It seems like you've resigned this season as no tournament wins before the tournament even begins.
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NBC Bracketville has MU as a 7 seed. They have consistently been one of the outlets that has MU a slightly worse seed than some others.
i would love to play Virginia first round and see Sam on the bench not being able to do anything while Howard scores 60
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i would love to play Virginia first round and see Sam on the bench not being able to do anything while Howard scores 60
And Markus passes the ball to Sam on the bench as the clock runs out and we go on to victory.
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I included every single year since 06 for completeness. Because 7/10 and 8/9 matchups are much closer to #crapshoots (big Scoop term) than 6/11, 5/12 matchups. I wouldn't be fine with losing as a 7 but I'll compromise with the rest of you lots. I just expect us to not need to worry about a 5/12 or 6/11 matchup, yet were out here afraid of some teams because we could have a good possibility of losing.
5 seeds win 64% of the time
6 seeds win 63% of the time
7 seeds win 61% of the time
1. Apparently 61% is "much closer" to being a crapshoot than 63%.
2. Every 5, 6, or 7 seed is worried about losing. 10-12 seeds are good teams (37-48 overall, in theory). They collectively win 37% of their first round games. Do you really think #24 (last 6) is a lock to beat #41 (first 11) on a neutral court?
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Are people aware that in the NCAA tournament you have to play a diffrent ncca tournament team?
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Are people aware that in the NCAA tournament you have to play a diffrent ncca tournament team?
What? Are you sure?!
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5 seeds win 64% of the time
6 seeds win 63% of the time
7 seeds win 61% of the time
1. Apparently 61% is "much closer" to being a crapshoot than 63%.
2. Every 5, 6, or 7 seed is worried about losing. 10-12 seeds are good teams (37-48 overall, in theory). They collectively win 37% of their first round games. Do you really think #24 (last 6) is a lock to beat #41 (first 11) on a neutral court?
#crapshoot
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https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2876930-how-much-does-seeding-really-matter-in-the-mens-ncaa-tournament
Solid read.
Thanks Very Good.
I have always dreaded the 8,9 seed because of that second game against almost certainly a #1. I would rather be a 10,11,12.
Sweet 16 is really my hope for MU. E8 is just dreamy frosting.
I think this article sort of suports that. 9's dont get to the s16 like 10,11s and the only good thing about the 8 seed is their relatively positive chance at the e8 if they make it to s16.
So avoid 8,9.....my preferred seed for MU: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,12,11,10,8,9
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34, 35, 39, 41, 42 and 46 on Bracketville s curve all lost, for anyone irrationally worried about Marquette's spot in the tournament. We'll lock a bid up on Wednesday.
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https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/bracketology/
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https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/bracketology/
Just in case anyone needed a reminder how far MU is from the actual bubble.
I know Palm isn't the best. 2-2 finish and we'll be a single digit seed. Honestly think we're in even if we lose out, but I don't want to test that theory.
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Last 6 seed on bracket matrix
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7 seed now. Wisconsin is also a 7 seed for comparison.
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7 seed now. Wisconsin is also a 7 seed for comparison.
on what??
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on what??
CBS Sports
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https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/bracketology/
This would be a great draw IMO
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https://bracketville.wordpress.com/bracketology/
7 on bracketville
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Lunardi today, 7 seed MU.
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We just need to bump up to the 6 seed line. Our 2nd round matchup would be duke/louisville as nova/creighton/Seton hall are going to take 2 or 3 of the 3 seeds away.
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https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/bracketology/
This would be a great draw IMO
Yep.
And nice to see 6 out of 10 teams in, with PC one of the first four out. If a seventh team makes it, would 70% of a conference's teams in the Dance be a record?
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Yep.
And nice to see 6 out of 10 teams in, with PC one of the first four out. If a seventh team makes it, would 70% of a conference's teams in the Dance be a record?
I believe the old Big East got 11 out of 14 in (79%)
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Yep.
And nice to see 6 out of 10 teams in, with PC one of the first four out. If a seventh team makes it, would 70% of a conference's teams in the Dance be a record?
I will never understand this from our fanbase. Who cares if we get 70% in if Marquette doesn't get a win. The two years Nova won the championship there were members here acting like MU got a share of it or something. In the end the fans don't care about revenue sharing they care about wins and its been 7 years since we have had one in the NCAA. I could care less if Providence wins a game let alone if they get in the field.
I am not attacking the person I quoted either. I have seen at least 20 people on these boards say the same thing.
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I believe the old Big East got 11 out of 14 in (79%)
It was 11/16, but I think the Big 12 got 7/10 in
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I believe the old Big East got 11 out of 14 in (79%)
I think this year's Big Ten is looking at 11 bids right now, which would be 11/14
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Yep.
And nice to see 6 out of 10 teams in, with PC one of the first four out. If a seventh team makes it, would 70% of a conference's teams in the Dance be a record?
The record was 77.8% when the Big East put 7/9 teams in back in the 1991 season. Both the Big East and Big 10 could make a run at that record this year.
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I will never understand this from our fanbase. Who cares if we get 70% in if Marquette doesn't get a win. The two years Nova won the championship there were members here acting like MU got a share of it or something. In the end the fans don't care about revenue sharing they care about wins and its been 7 years since we have had one in the NCAA. I could care less if Providence wins a game let alone if they get in the field.
I am not attacking the person I quoted either. I have seen at least 20 people on these boards say the same thing.
Yep it’s strange. The rest of the conference hasn’t exactly lit it up in the tournament either.
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Yep it’s strange. The rest of the conference hasn’t exactly lit it up in the tournament either.
Xavier with an E8 and Butler with a S16 are the only other runs right?
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Xavier with an E8 and Butler with a S16 are the only other runs right?
Beyond the first weekend, yes. And Xavier's was the most surprising as they were an 11-seed that year.
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Xavier with an E8 and Butler with a S16 are the only other runs right?
Yep. Butler, X and of course Nova are the only programs to make it past the first weekend since the new BE formed.
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I will never understand this from our fanbase. Who cares if we get 70% in if Marquette doesn't get a win. The two years Nova won the championship there were members here acting like MU got a share of it or something. In the end the fans don't care about revenue sharing they care about wins and its been 7 years since we have had one in the NCAA. I could care less if Providence wins a game let alone if they get in the field.
I am not attacking the person I quoted either. I have seen at least 20 people on these boards say the same thing.
You nailed this...I have read it many times as well. It's a strange phenomenon to me..Everyone seemingly roots for the Big East in the NCAA's to go deep. I couldn't care less about how the other BE teams do, in fact, more often then not, I find myself rooting against them(unless one is playing UW). The ONLY team I want to see do well in the dance is MU. After that, I take no joy/pleasure in seeing a Creighton or a Seton Hall go to the Sweet 16 or beyond and let their fans revel in that glory when I'm miserable because MU didn't make it past their first game. Some will say "well it makes the Big East look better". Who cares?? Actually what it does, it just shines the light more on the fact that MU wasn't one of the better teams in the conference. It's not like if Creighton wins a National Championship, I can feel good and go "oh yeah, now I feel great, because one of the Big east teams just won the whole thing and MU was in that conference". What it means is Creighton just won a National Championship and I'm pissed off because it wasn't MU, that's what it means.
The idea that it helps with recruiting to me is also laughable..Your school, Coach etc is what helps with recruiting. Besides, why would I want the other schools in the conference to recruit great and hurt MU's chances of winning a BE title at some point?? I've never understood this line of thinking.
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Yep.
And nice to see 6 out of 10 teams in, with PC one of the first four out. If a seventh team makes it, would 70% of a conference's teams in the Dance be a record?
I believe we had 7 teams from the Big East in 2015.
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You nailed this...I have read it many times as well. It's a strange phenomenon to me..Everyone seemingly roots for the Big East in the NCAA's to go deep. I couldn't care less about how the other BE teams do, in fact, more often then not, I find myself rooting against them(unless one is playing UW). The ONLY team I want to see do well in the dance is MU. After that, I take no joy/pleasure in seeing a Creighton or a Seton Hall go to the Sweet 16 or beyond and let their fans revel in that glory when I'm miserable because MU didn't make it past their first game. Some will say "well it makes the Big East look better". Who cares?? Actually what it does, it just shines the light more on the fact that MU wasn't one of the better teams in the conference. It's not like if Creighton wins a National Championship, I can feel good and go "oh yeah, now I feel great, because one of the Big east teams just won the whole thing and MU was in that conference". What it means is Creighton just won a National Championship and I'm pissed off because it wasn't MU, that's what it means.
The idea that it helps with recruiting to me is also laughable..Your school, Coach etc is what helps with recruiting. Besides, why would I want the other schools in the conference to recruit great and hurt MU's chances of winning a BE title at some point?? I've never understood this line of thinking.
I fully bought into that line of thinking either. However, I do root for BE teams to make a run in the tourney (except for Gtown or DePaul, but that latter will never be an issue)...right up to the Elite 8. Most of the time because I like seeing non-Power 5 and non-football schools make a run.
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I believe we had 7 teams from the Big East in 2015.
Big 12 has also done it multiple times.
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I will never understand this from our fanbase. Who cares if we get 70% in if Marquette doesn't get a win. The two years Nova won the championship there were members here acting like MU got a share of it or something. In the end the fans don't care about revenue sharing they care about wins and its been 7 years since we have had one in the NCAA. I could care less if Providence wins a game let alone if they get in the field.
I am not attacking the person I quoted either. I have seen at least 20 people on these boards say the same thing.
Yep. Anyone here think Gonzaga gives a sh!t about how many teams their conference gets in? They’re too busy trying to win games in the tournament themselves to worry about stuff like that.
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Every time a Big East team wins a tournament game, it's big money to every conference team. It elevates the entire conference. It helps Marquette in so many ways.
Having said that, the thing that helps Marquette THE MOST is for Marquette to win tournament games. The best possible outcome for Marquette would be for Marquette to win the NCAA tournament, with 3 other Big East teams making the Final Four.
I know, seems obvious. But some of you are too spiteful and/or short-sighted to see it.
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I will always root for all 11 Big East schools! (I include UConn.) There is a war from many that it's the Power 5 and everyone else doesn't matter. More teams and wins, equals more money. I'm sure why most don't buy into that.
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Yep. Anyone here think Gonzaga gives a sh!t about how many teams their conference gets in? They’re too busy trying to win games in the tournament themselves to worry about stuff like that.
You can do both. Gonzaga does care.
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I will always root for all 11 Big East schools! (I include UConn.) There is a war from many that it's the Power 5 and everyone else doesn't matter. More teams and wins, equals more money. I'm sure why most don't buy into that.
What exactly does more money equate to for our program? A new head coach? New facility? We already have a top 10 program in terms of dollars spent on basketball. Not sure what more money is going to do for us.
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What exactly does more money equate to for our program? A new head coach? New facility? We already have a top 10 program in terms of dollars spent on basketball. Not sure what more money is going to do for us.
The Big East, AAC and other group of 5's are super behind the SEC, Big Ten and the rest of the Power 5 in the TV money. More money for Marquette keeps are other coaches here at Marquette. Upgrades and builds buildings, etc. Always getting more money is always a good thing.
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What exactly does more money equate to for our program? A new head coach? New facility? We already have a top 10 program in terms of dollars spent on basketball. Not sure what more money is going to do for us.
Those numbers are deceiving, though. Bear in mind that at any football school, the basketball program is going to use the same facilities in terms of weight and fitness training that the football team uses, but those dollars will more likely be earmarked to football. We spend well, but the idea that we are outspending the bulk of the high-major football programs isn't exactly accurate.
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What exactly does more money equate to for our program? A new head coach? New facility? We already have a top 10 program in terms of dollars spent on basketball. Not sure what more money is going to do for us.
will help us get better recruits
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Also, more revenues from the tournament results in less pressure to raise ticket prices. ;D
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Yep. Anyone here think Gonzaga gives a sh!t about how many teams their conference gets in? They’re too busy trying to win games in the tournament themselves to worry about stuff like that.
I don't worry about it, but I root for the other Big East teams once the tournament starts. I'd rather see the conference my team is in do well. Not much more to it than that. When you're watching all these tournament games, you gotta have a reason to root for somebody, and conference affiliation is as good a reason as any. Plus, other than the day we are playing them, in general I like the other teams in our conference.
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I don't worry about it, but I root for the other Big East teams once the tournament starts. I'd rather see the conference my team is in do well. Not much more to it than that. When you're watching all these tournament games, you gotta have a reason to root for somebody, and conference affiliation is as good a reason as any. Plus, other than the day we are playing them, in general I like the other teams in our conference.
Hit it on the head right here
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Those numbers are deceiving, though. Bear in mind that at any football school, the basketball program is going to use the same facilities in terms of weight and fitness training that the football team uses, but those dollars will more likely be earmarked to football. We spend well, but the idea that we are outspending the bulk of the high-major football programs isn't exactly accurate.
we're also paying rent at Fiserv to add to that expense.
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I will never understand this from our fanbase. Who cares if we get 70% in if Marquette doesn't get a win. The two years Nova won the championship there were members here acting like MU got a share of it or something. In the end the fans don't care about revenue sharing they care about wins and its been 7 years since we have had one in the NCAA. I could care less if Providence wins a game let alone if they get in the field.
I am not attacking the person I quoted either. I have seen at least 20 people on these boards say the same thing.
My first interest - by a longshot - is seeing MU win in March. It isn’t even close.
But still, the performance of rest of the conference does matter to MU. There is obviously the money factor that you mentioned - and that matters, because it helps pay the bills. Beyond that, the better conference performance means a better conference reputation. And that can translate into anything from a slightly better shot at getting into the dance if we’re on the bubble, to getting into better preseason tournaments, and even a foot in the door for better recruits.
Most of those are long-term intangible benefits...but they might explain why most of the blue-blood programs are in the most successful conferences.
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Lenny
I want MU to be in the camp of not giving a sh!t who gets in from the BE. I have never understood that thinking. Granted, when you are in the position MU is in, it helps to have highly competitive conference. Top teams are not hoping that their conference gets 6-7 teams in, they are more concerned about their fate.
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Lenny
I want MU to be in the camp of not giving a sh!t who gets in from the BE. I have never understood that thinking. Granted, when you are in the position MU is in, it helps to have highly competitive conference. Top teams are not hoping that their conference gets 6-7 teams in, they are more concerned about their fate.
Goose, I'll disagree slightly here. It's important due to the payout. The gap between the Power Five and the rest of the conferences continues to grow thanks to TV and football revenue. To get a couple extra million thanks to 6-7 extra teams making the tourney is something we need to keep pace.
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https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2877605-2020-ncaa-tournament-bracket-latest-projection-of-the-field-of-68
Good read on Marquette
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Last 7 on Lunardi's seed list...right behind...Wisconsin.
https://twitter.com/ESPNLunardi/status/1232725525506019328/photo/1
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Yep. Anyone here think Gonzaga gives a sh!t about how many teams their conference gets in? They’re too busy trying to win games in the tournament themselves to worry about stuff like that.
They don't care since the distribution is heavily tilted in their favor, but other schools in the WCC do.
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Last 7 on Lunardi's seed list...right behind...Wisconsin.
https://twitter.com/ESPNLunardi/status/1232725525506019328/photo/1
Lots of season left, we can move up still
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Getting slightly nervous, we're dropping seed lines quick
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Getting slightly nervous, we're dropping seed lines quick
Where?
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Getting slightly nervous, we're dropping seed lines quick
Yeah I keep reading we’re a stone cold lock and maybe we are. Many here know more than I do about bracket projections. But if we lose our next two and our first BET game are we really a lock?
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Yeah I keep reading we’re a stone cold lock and maybe we are. Many here know more than I do about bracket projections. But if we lose our next two and our first BET game are we really a lock?
To answer this question, I'm 98% certain we would get in even with an 0-3 finish. So yeah we're a borderline lock. Lock as in 100%? One more win and there's a 0% chance we get left out.
If we do lose 3 in a row and get left out it would still be a huge snub. But I really wouldn't complain too much.
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To answer this question, I'm 98% certain we would get in even with an 0-3 finish. So yeah we're a borderline lock. Lock as in 100%? One more win and there's a 0% chance we get left out.
If we do lose 3 in a row and get left out it would still be a huge snub. But I really wouldn't complain too much.
Thanks for the info. That’s how I feel. If we somehow lost the last 3 making it 7 of our last 8 I’d have a tough time arguing we deserve to be in.
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Thanks for the info. That’s how I feel. If we somehow lost the last 3 making it 7 of our last 8 I’d have a tough time arguing we deserve to be in.
If we go 0-3, we're still a stone cold lock. And probably still a 10 seed, which is basically the same as a 7 seed.
Getting slightly nervous, we're dropping seed lines quick
There is zero reason to be concerned about MU's chances of making the tournament.
Plenty of reasons to be concerned about losing 4/5, tho.
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If we go 0-3, we're still a stone cold lock. And probably still a 10 seed, which is basically the same as a 7 seed.
There is zero reason to be concerned about MU's chances of making the tournament.
Plenty of reasons to be concerned about losing 4/5, tho.
There's no way we are on the 4/5 lines without winning the BET at this point, unfortunately.
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Losing 4 out of 5 games, not 4 or 5 line.
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There's no way we are on the 4/5 lines without winning the BET at this point, unfortunately.
He meant losing 4 of our last 5 games.
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Yeah I keep reading we’re a stone cold lock and maybe we are. Many here know more than I do about bracket projections. But if we lose our next two and our first BET game are we really a lock?
Yes. We have 12 Q1+2 wins and no losses outside Q2. No one on the bubble comes close. If we lose out, I don't even think we'll be in Dayton.
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Yes. We have 12 Q1+2 wins and no losses outside Q2. No one on the bubble comes close. If we lose out, I don't even think we'll be in Dayton.
Not saying anything you don't know, but if we win the next two I think many will be pleasantly surprised with our seed. 14 Q1/2 wins and 0 losses to anyone outside the tournament field.
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Not saying anything you don't know, but if we win the next two I think many will be pleasantly surprised with our seed. 14 Q1/2 wins and 0 losses to anyone outside the tournament field.
However, of those 14 Q1/2 wins, only 5 are against teams currently in the field..Xavier(2), Nova, USC and Butler. That's it. Gotta believe they will get dinged for that. I mean yes you can say it's 14 Q 1/2 wins. But when you dig deeper..the committee may not be overly impressed in totality. This is an instance where the #'s don't really tell the true story. I'm not saying this to bash anything, just being realistic and honest.
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However, of those 14 Q1/2 wins, only 5 are against teams currently in the field..Xavier(2), Nova, USC and Butler. That's it. Gotta believe they will get dinged for that. I mean yes you can say it's 14 Q 1/2 wins. But when you dig deeper..the committee may not be overly impressed in totality. This is an instance where the #'s don't really tell the true story. I'm not saying this to bash anything, just being realistic and honest.
I get what you're saying. The resume isn't without warts. But with 5 wins against tournament teams, 0 losses against teams outside the field and that's why we would be looking at a 6/7 seed and a legitimate top 25ish resume. Not only that, only 2 ( PC, @ PC) of our 10 losses came outside Q1A. If Providence keeps winning we could potentially end up at 20-10 with one total loss outside Q1A.
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https://bracketville.wordpress.com/bracketology/
i would take this
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology
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At this point, I'd be thrilled with a 7 seed meaning we can avoid the 8-9 situation. Favorable matchup in the first round and can avoid the 1 seed in the second round. That's really the best we can hope for at this point, barring winning out (including BET).
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Would anyone agree that you'd rather have an 11 seed over an 8 or 9? Maybe go even further I think a case could be made for.11 over 7 or 10 as well.
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Would anyone agree that you'd rather have an 11 seed over an 8 or 9?
Yes
Maybe go even further I think a case could be made for.11 over 7 or 10 as well.
No
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Would anyone agree that you'd rather have an 11 seed over an 8 or 9? Maybe go even further I think a case could be made for.11 over 7 or 10 as well.
I rather have a 11 seed over a 7/10
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I rather have a 11 seed over a 7/10
Problem with 11s is that now you are into Dayton territory. If my team makes the tournament I want to at least have a guarantee they will be playing on the first real day of the tournament.
If it means avoiding a 1 seed matchup it might still be worth it. But not worth it to simply avoid a 2-7, IMO
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Still a 7 seed at Bracketville and ESPN
Updated BV: https://bracketville.wordpress.com/bracketology/
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Would anyone agree that you'd rather have an 11 seed over an 8 or 9? Maybe go even further I think a case could be made for.11 over 7 or 10 as well.
Marquette would need to lose out to even have a shot at an 11 seed. If they go 0-3, I'd still bet on 10 or better.
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I rather have a 11 seed over a 7/10
Without a doubt. 11 gives you the best shot at a sweet sixteen (MU did it recently). However, I think Round 1 is our Super Bowl this year so I’d prefer to have the best seed possible whether it’s a 7,8, etc.
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7 seed on CBS
8 seed on Bracketville
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Checked about 30 brackets that have updated since last night. Mostly 7 seeds. Some 8s. One 9. Nothing below that.
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Checked about 30 brackets that have updated since last night. Mostly 7 seeds. Some 8s. One 9. Nothing below that.
No "First Four Outs" yet? ;)
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I'm hoping for a #7 or #10 seed playing in Tampa selfishly to see them live in my new hometown as of last year
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I'm hoping for a #7 or #10 seed playing in Tampa selfishly to see them live in my new hometown as of last year
Why on earth would you torture yourself like this?? It will make your eyes bleed...trust me
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Why on earth would you torture yourself like this?? It will make your eyes bleed...trust me
Especially if they happened to win a game and had to play FSU in Tampa.
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I rather have a 11 seed over a 7/10
Maybe Wojo's doing some game theory here, 4D chess master stuff
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Why on earth would you torture yourself like this?? It will make your eyes bleed...trust me
you never know, got to see them in Orlando and watch Howard put up 52 against USC that was a spectacular experience
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Maybe Wojo's doing some game theory here, 4D chess master stuff
I mean, maybe...
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7 seed on CBS
8 seed on Bracketville
slowly falling to the bubble
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slowly falling to the bubble
Because we stayed as a 7 seed in 80% of the brackets?
The bubble is the 11 line. We aren't there.
Really hope we can just win Saturday to put all this talk to rest.
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Because we stayed as a 7 seed in 80% of the brackets?
The bubble is the 11 line. We aren't there.
Really hope we can just win Saturday to put all this talk to rest.
Would not hang onto that sentiment.
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Would not hang onto that sentiment.
I've basically lost all confidence. I don't expect a win.
We still aren't close to the bubble, though.
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slowly falling to the bubble
If we go slow enough, we'll never get there by next Sunday!
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Bracketville has us as a 9 seed.
Lunardi still has us as a 7 and nowhere near even the inner edges of the bubble.
https://twitter.com/ESPNLunardi/status/1235663448501075968
https://twitter.com/ESPNLunardi/status/1235663450052931590
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Bracketville has us as a 9 seed.
Lunardi still has us as a 7 and nowhere near even the inner edges of the bubble.
https://twitter.com/ESPNLunardi/status/1235663448501075968
https://twitter.com/ESPNLunardi/status/1235663450052931590
Wisconsin a 4 seed? Really ?
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Wisconsin a 4 seed? Really ?
They are going to win the Big 10, so yeah. Why not?
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Wisconsin a 4 seed? Really ?
They are just on fire. 7 win streak and 1st in big ten. Here we are pissing the bed🤗☺️
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They are just on fire. 7 win streak and 1st in big ten. Here we are pissing the bed🤗☺️
Look on the bright side. If they win and Maryland wins our only two non-con losses are to the Big Ten Co-champions. Good for our resume. You can still cheer for them to flame out early in their tournament games
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Bracketville has us as a 9 seed.
Lunardi still has us as a 7 and nowhere near even the inner edges of the bubble.
https://twitter.com/ESPNLunardi/status/1235663448501075968
https://twitter.com/ESPNLunardi/status/1235663450052931590
PC all the way up to an 8 seed. Impressive.
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ASU takes a very bad loss to Washington. Wichita State misses an opportunity at Memphis. Stanford loses to Oregon State. Bad night for the bubble.
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PC all the way up to an 8 seed. Impressive.
Lunardi has Marquette as a 7 seed today
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Bumping this to replace the "if we lose out" thread.
Lunardi has us as the 6th last team in. Brad Evans who is generally good has us as the top 9 seed.
Stanford loses to Oregon. They'll stay below us in the pecking order.
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PC all the way up to an 8 seed. Impressive.
The last 10 games isn't a criteria for the committee anymore, but does it still play a role, even if it's subconsciously? If so, Providence is looking good for now.
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Lunardi posted final update for tonight. We are a 9 seed. Wonder if he re-evaluated and bumped us up a few spots or if it was procedural.
http://m.espn.com/ncb/bracketology?src=desktop
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Lunardi's just released bracket...9 seed vs. St Mary's and then Baylor. What sucks about this losing streak and IF the committee views them as a 9 now, probably the highest they can go even if the win the BE tournament is an 8...either way it would suck...would rather be a 10 or an 11
http://m.espn.com/ncb/bracketology?iteration=252®ion=3&year=2020
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Lunardi's just released bracket...9 seed vs. St Mary's and then Baylor. What sucks about this losing streak and IF the committee views them as a 9 now, probably the highest they can go even if the win the BE tournament is an 8...either way it would suck...would rather be a 10 or an 11
http://m.espn.com/ncb/bracketology?iteration=252®ion=3&year=2020
A 9 isn’t the worst. Baylor has been a little shaky as of late. Besides, worrying about who we would play in the second round is a problem we haven’t had in a loooong time.
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A 9 isn’t the worst. Baylor has been a little shaky as of late. Besides, worrying about who we would play in the second round is a problem we haven’t had in a loooong time.
Yeah. Just give me a bid and a decent first round matchup.
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At this point just screw it. If these guys want any chance in the dance they need to have a drastic turnaround.
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Lunardi's just released bracket...9 seed vs. St Mary's and then Baylor. What sucks about this losing streak and IF the committee views them as a 9 now, probably the highest they can go even if the win the BE tournament is an 8...either way it would suck...would rather be a 10 or an 11
http://m.espn.com/ncb/bracketology?iteration=252®ion=3&year=2020
[/b]
Good chance you'll get your wish
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At this point just screw it.
Yes! Why the futile exercise of considering our matchups while this dumpster fire rages?? There is no matchup the committee can hand to us on a platter that would help this clueless leader of ours.
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Or is the futile exercise of trying to get people to stop talking about it better?
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At this point just screw it. If these guys want any chance in the dance they need to have a drastic turnaround.
And that is something over the last 8 games that we have not seen.
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It just might turn out that Xavier losing at the buzzer last night will drop the Big East from 7 bids to 5 bids.
Had we played DePaul and won, we would of been in for sure. A big loss to Seton Hall might knock us out of the tournament.
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Lunardi...with a note on MU...
The overnight bubble evaluation was not good for Marquette(8-10 Big East, 5-11 vs. Current field) or Texas Tech(4-10 vs. Current field)With both falling to the LAST FOUR BYES category
https://twitter.com/ESPNLunardi/status/1236707849302085633?s=20
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Lunardi...with a note on MU...
The overnight bubble evaluation was not good for Marquette(8-10 Big East, 5-11 vs. Current field) or Texas Tech(4-10 vs. Current field)With both falling to the LAST FOUR BYES category
https://twitter.com/ESPNLunardi/status/1236707849302085633?s=20
Lunardi is an advocate for "no teams with under .500 records should be in" so it's not surprising he isn't high on MU. However, it seems our whole body of work is dependent on a formula (NET) that nobody knows exactly how it's even calculated.
The committee can easily throw our Kenpom out the window seeing as Minnesota is one spot behind us at (31) and is 13-16 overall.
And yea... he bumped X out so I am only counting 3 wins against the current field. 2 at home in conference and 1 on a neutral against a 10 seed. Starting to look like an NIT resume to me.
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If we lose to SH on Thursday, I think having a superstar in Markus still gets us in one of the play-in games. We will, as one poster put it, “slime” our way into the tournament.
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Lunardi...with a note on MU...
The overnight bubble evaluation was not good for Marquette(8-10 Big East, 5-11 vs. Current field) or Texas Tech(4-10 vs. Current field)With both falling to the LAST FOUR BYES category
https://twitter.com/ESPNLunardi/status/1236707849302085633?s=20
Yet he moved us up 2 spots from his update last night.
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Lunardi...with a note on MU...
The overnight bubble evaluation was not good for Marquette(8-10 Big East, 5-11 vs. Current field) or Texas Tech(4-10 vs. Current field)With both falling to the LAST FOUR BYES category
https://twitter.com/ESPNLunardi/status/1236707849302085633?s=20
Beard’s team is rated below Wojo’s?
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brian wardle takes #4 seed of MVC to 2nd straight championship and an auto bid. go on to a 24-5 run after the half. good for him. i haven't plugged in their numbers but i don't think they have any upper tier wins, but...
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brian wardle takes #4 seed of MVC to 2nd straight championship and an auto bid. go on to a 24-5 run after the half. good for him. i haven't plugged in their numbers but i don't think they have any upper tier wins, but...
They were helped immensely by the fact the top two seeds, N. Iowa and Loyola were eliminated. Bradley was winless against both those teams during the regular season.
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Beard’s team is rated below Wojo’s?
Our loss to DePaul was tighter due that Wojo timeout with a second left.
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Our loss to DePaul was tighter due that Wojo timeout with a second left.
We also beat DePaul. Did Beard not call timeouts and coach to the end against DePaul? Was Beard supposed to be a cannot miss coach? Why is he struggling? Even with OT Tech scored only 60 points at DePaul. They have lost four straight and five of 7.
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We also beat DePaul. Did Beard not call timeouts and coach to the end against DePaul? Was Beard supposed to be a cannot miss coach? Why is he struggling? Even with OT Tech scored only 60 points at DePaul. They have lost four straight and five of 7.
But they kicked our ass without their top player, so there is that.
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We also beat DePaul. Did Beard not call timeouts and coach to the end against DePaul? Was Beard supposed to be a cannot miss coach? Why is he struggling? Even with OT Tech scored only 60 points at DePaul. They have lost four straight and five of 7.
LOL Texas Tech was missing their best player when they played DePaul. Conversely, DePaul was missing their best player when we lost to them.
Chris Beard also has an Elite 8 appearance and a championship game appearance under his belt.
Nice try Chicos!
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We also beat DePaul. Did Beard not call timeouts and coach to the end against DePaul? Was Beard supposed to be a cannot miss coach? Why is he struggling? Even with OT Tech scored only 60 points at DePaul. They have lost four straight and five of 7.
Yes. The high water mark for Wojo is "not losing as badly than TT to DePaul".
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LOL Texas Tech was missing their best player when they played DePaul. Conversely, DePaul was missing their best player when we lost to them.
Chris Beard also has an Elite 8 appearance and a championship game appearance under his belt.
Nice try Chicos!
We attended the SH and DePaul games last week. Reed is not their best player, Moore is. We beat DePaul with Reed at our place.
Speaking of your friend, where has he been lately? Where is Tower?
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I'm so down on this coach/team at this point that I'm starting to rationalize. I don't think there is even a remote prayer that we beat SHU. I would rather have them go to the NIT than suffer another humiliation in the dance like last year's, and the way they are playing is not promising that that fate will be avoided.
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I'm so down on this coach/team at this point that I'm starting to rationalize. I don't think there is even a remote prayer that we beat SHU. I would rather have them go to the NIT than suffer another humiliation in the dance like last year's, and the way they are playing is not promising that that fate will be avoided.
Be more humiliating if this insane collapse casued them to miss the ncaa after starting 7 and 4 then making it and getting trounced first. This team just looks done to me. I would expect hall to blow them out of the water than we lose by 10 in dayton
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We attended the SH and DePaul games last week. Reed is not their best player, Moore is. We beat DePaul with Reed at our place.
Speaking of your friend, where has he been lately? Where is Tower?
Moore? I’d say Weems might be their best player when Reed’s not on the floor. Moore is a good pure point guard who’s quick, has a decent handle, and can get to the basket. He doesn’t have much of an outside shot, from what I’ve seen. Reed is a projected NBA draft pick. He’s their best player, and they were 2-14 in conference, playing almost all those games with him in the lineup. It was a pathetic loss, Chico.
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Be more humiliating if this insane collapse casued them to miss the ncaa after starting 7 and 4 then making it and getting trounced first. This team just looks done to me. I would expect hall to blow them out of the water than we lose by 10 in dayton
I agree with you, that being said, as little confidence as I have, I keep hoping to myself that this program is about due for some NCAA luck, aren't they?? My hope is, that somehow, some way, the basketball gods will be looking down on Markus and reward him and MU with a pristine 1st round match up allowing them to advance, and then a blown up bracket after that so they can play like say a 15 instead of a 2 in round 2. Other schools have it happen to them(UW lived this way in the tourney on more than one occasion), why not MU??
Now, would it feel a little "dirty" and really fluky?? Probably but a Sweet 16, is still a Sweet 16 and at this point I will take ANY amount of success no matter how it comes
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Of course its possible with howard. Unfortunately there is no honest person who could exepct a turnaround at this point. Hope im wrong though and we have a Cinderella run in the ncca
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I agree with you, that being said, as little confidence as I have, I keep hoping to myself that this program is about due for some NCAA luck, aren't they?? My hope is, that somehow, some way, the basketball gods will be looking down on Markus and reward him and MU with a pristine 1st round match up allowing them to advance, and then a blown up bracket after that so they can play like say a 15 instead of a 2 in round 2. Other schools have it happen to them(UW lived this way in the tourney on more than one occasion), why not MU??
Now, would it feel a little "dirty" and really fluky?? Probably but a Sweet 16, is still a Sweet 16 and at this point I will take ANY amount of success no matter how it comes
Really impressed here.
Don’t get to see quite too many glass half fuller wishful thinking ones from you
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I’m hoping Wojo and crew get into the tournament, and get to the sweet 16.
Wojo then leaves town, and we can start over. Although, it won’t matter with the current admin (Lovell, and Scholl) in place.
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Lunardi latest bracket has MU as 10 seed
https://twitter.com/espnlunardi/status/1236810739303809024?s=21
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Marquette is in 66/66 brackets that updated today on Bracket Matrix. Last 8 seed. High of 7, low of 10.
http://www.bracketmatrix.com/
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Lunardi latest bracket has MU as 10 seed
https://twitter.com/espnlunardi/status/1236810739303809024?s=21
well, at least the 10 seed has the most upsets over the #7, historically speaking-39.3%. 2nd round, the 10 seed upset the 2 seed 43x over the last 35 years. i know, here i go again...where's my glue ?-(
https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/bracketiq/2018-03-13/heres-how-pick-march-madness-upsets-according-data
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Marquette is in 66/66 brackets that updated today on Bracket Matrix. Last 8 seed. High of 7, low of 10.
http://www.bracketmatrix.com/
But but but!!!
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But but but!!!
But but but this team has to get its shi t together real quick if they wanna do anything in the tournament besides get embarrassed. How can anyone be that confident. What even needs to happen. Baily needs to come back from oblivion. Sacar has bring somthing as does kobe. Those 3 dont show and the seasons over before you can even say tournmanet win
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NBC Sports Bracket has MU as last 4 in, 10 seed.
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http://haslametrics.com/ratings.php
Haslametrics has MU as a 10 seed
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But but but this team has to get its shi t together real quick if they wanna do anything in the tournament besides get embarrassed. How can anyone be that confident. What even needs to happen. Baily needs to come back from oblivion. Sacar has bring somthing as does kobe. Those 3 dont show and the seasons over before you can even say tournmanet win
Who here is confident about their recent performance or has said anything in relation to that? This team isn't good right now. But their resume is plenty to good to get into the tournament, despite the "fans" that are seemingly hoping they miss.
I think you're misunderstanding some people's confidence in MU making the tournament as them actually defending how they're playing currently. I sure as crap am not. But I am pretty confident that a 10 seed is their floor with a loss to Hall on Thursday.
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NBC Sports Bracket has MU as last 4 in, 10 seed.
False. NBC has them as the 7th to last team in.
Ahead of Florida, UCLA, Xavier, Stanford, Texas Tech, NC State, TExas, Cinci, Richmond, Wichita State, Memphis, Mississipi State, UNI and SLU.
https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2020/03/08/ncaa-tournament-bracketology-projection-bubble-ucla/ (https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2020/03/08/ncaa-tournament-bracketology-projection-bubble-ucla/)
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Who here is confident about their recent performance or has said anything in relation to that? This team isn't good right now. But their resume is plenty to good to get into the tournament, despite the "fans" that are seemingly hoping they miss.
I think you're misunderstanding some people's confidence in MU making the tournament as them actually defending how they're playing currently. I sure as crap am not. But I am pretty confident that a 10 seed is their floor with a loss to Hall on Thursday.
I really believe MU needs a win to change its momentum. The most likely way I see this happening is to end up in the play in game as an 11. I think with a win we would have a decent chance to beat a 6 and if we won that game we would have a decent chance to beat a three.
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Exactly what JJJ said. We're not good. The faith I had in Wojo is gone. But we're not missing the tournament barring an unprecedented committee decision.
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Who here is confident about their recent performance or has said anything in relation to that? This team isn't good right now. But their resume is plenty to good to get into the tournament, despite the "fans" that are seemingly hoping they miss.
I think you're misunderstanding some people's confidence in MU making the tournament as them actually defending how they're playing currently. I sure as crap am not. But I am pretty confident that a 10 seed is their floor with a loss to Hall on Thursday.
To be fair JJJ and playing devil's advocate..you have been proudly proclaiming they are a stone cold lock...and I gave you a scenario where they would in fact be left out. No question about it they would. Obviously that is a scenario that has almost no chance of happening, but as of this moment it could. Thus, calling them a "stone cold lock" is disingenuous. A stone cold lock is one where no matter what happens there is NO chance, absolutely zero of a team getting left out. Like a Kansas as one example. Now if you want to say something like "barring the most bizzare circumstances" happening they are a lock, or They are a near lock, that's totally fine, but again to call them a "stone cold lock" really isn't factual at this moment. Just trying to be fair..
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I really believe MU needs a win to change its momentum. The most likely way I see this happening is to end up in the play in game as an 11. I think with a win we would have a decent chance to beat a 6 and if we won that game we would have a decent chance to beat a three.
I agree MU needs to win a game to change its momentum. I disagree that MU needs to win in order to get a bid into the NCAA tournament.
I've looked into this in detail. As have others here that are in the same boat as me. Please provide the resumes of 36 teams (after accounting for 32 auto bids) with better at large resumes than Marquette. You can't. I promise you. You could list 36 teams like someone else tried to do, but 8-10 of them have clearly inferior overall bodies of work than MU. List NET, Kenpom, SOS, Q1 record, Q2 record Q1+Q2 record, Q3+Q4 record. I promise you there aren't 36 teams more worthy than Marquette, even with an additional high end Q1 loss to Hall on the resume.
They have to fill the field. I have very little confidence MU will do anything with the bid, but I'll take my chances against a team with 3 days to prepare for Markus without any previous knowledge.
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To be fair JJJ and playing devil's advocate..you have been proudly proclaiming they are a stone cold lock...and I gave you a scenario where they would in fact be left out. No question about it they would. Obviously that is a scenario that has almost no chance of happening, but as of this moment it could. Thus, calling them a "stone cold lock" is disingenuous. A stone cold lock is one where no matter what happens there is NO chance, absolutely zero of a team getting left out. Like a Kansas as one example. Now if you want to say something like "barring the most bizzare circumstances" happening they are a lock, or They are a near lock, that's totally fine, but again to call them a "stone cold lock" really isn't factual at this moment. Just trying to be fair..
Lol, I don't really care to debate anything with you. You can come up with whatever worst case scenarios you want man. That is never going to happen. Every single conference isn't going to have a bid stealer. Nothing any of us say is "factual". Some of us just follow this more than others and can provide those who care analysis with actual backup and knowledge of the situation. Others can just babble about the NIT and how MU is the worst at large team ever without watching any or very little CBB this year other than Marquette. At the end of the day, none of our opinions matter, but MU is no less 8-10 spots from the cutline right now and should be comfortably in regardless of what happens next week. Most if not all of the other teams around Marquette are also going to lose again before the tournament field is announced, and most of them to a team worse than Seton Hall.
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Lol, I don't really care to debate anything with you. You can come up with whatever worst case scenarios you want man. That is never going to happen. Every single conference isn't going to have a bid stealer. Nothing any of us say is "factual". Some of us just follow this more than others and can provide those who care analysis with actual backup and knowledge of the situation. Others can just babble about the NIT and how MU is the worst at large team ever without watching any or very little CBB this year other than Marquette. At the end of the day, none of our opinions matter, but MU is no less 8-10 spots from the cutline right now and should be comfortably in regardless of what happens next week. Most if not all of the other teams around Marquette are also going to lose again before the tournament field is announced, and most of them to a team worse than Seton Hall.
Again, I'm not disagreeing with you necessarily, but as you said, none of what any of us say is factual. It only matters what the committee really believes/feels. They're the one's who matter. Now, maybe getting left out with their resume would go against historical precedent, but all it really takes is a few committee members(and let's remember we hear time and time again that each member has different things they value), to not like the slide MU has been on, or for one of them to have a belief or preference that teams have at least a .500 league record. Then if those few can sell the rest of the committee..there you go.
Put another way...IF there was even the slightest questioning about MU among the committee members, well MU certainly hasn't done anything recently to quell those questions. How about they just beat SH and remove any slight doubt people have?? I like that idea best. 8-)
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False. NBC has them as the 7th to last team in.
Ahead of Florida, UCLA, Xavier, Stanford, Texas Tech, NC State, TExas, Cinci, Richmond, Wichita State, Memphis, Mississipi State, UNI and SLU.
https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2020/03/08/ncaa-tournament-bracketology-projection-bubble-ucla/ (https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2020/03/08/ncaa-tournament-bracketology-projection-bubble-ucla/)
Typo, meant last 4 byes. My bad.
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9 seed on cbs
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If we lose to SH on Thursday, I think having a superstar in Markus still gets us in one of the play-in games. We will, as one poster put it, “slime” our way into the tournament.
Is there any evidence at all that the committee has ever put a team in the tournament because of star power? Do you think having Markus in the play-in game would boost the ratings more than someone like Memphis or Cincinnati?
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Is there any evidence at all that the committee has ever put a team in the tournament because of star power? Do you think having Markus in the play-in game would boost the ratings more than someone like Memphis or Cincinnati?
Yeah I just don't see a bunch of people tuning into TruTV on a Tuesday or Wednesday night, who wouldn't otherwise, just to watch Markus Howard.
Last year they could have easilly put Indiana into the tournament ahead of Belmont if they cared about First Four ratings. Indiana would have drawn a much larger audience than Markus Howard will. Especially in Dayton.
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There is legitimate path towards MU being knocked out entirely before next Sunday. According to Bracketville (#1 bracketology) we are one of the last four byes. Yet another loss to Seton Hall (and sixth straight loss) will surely put us in the last four in. With just 2-3 bid thieves, we could get knocked off the bubble entirely.
I just don't see how a team that can lose its last six straight games gets into the tournament. Never recall that happening before.
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There is legitimate path towards MU being knocked out entirely before next Sunday. According to Bracketville (#1 bracketology) we are one of the last four byes. Yet another loss to Seton Hall (and sixth straight loss) will surely put us in the last four in. With just 2-3 bid thieves, we could get knocked off the bubble entirely.
I just don't see how a team that can lose its last six straight games gets into the tournament. Never recall that happening before.
Why, at this point, would another loss to a ranked team knock us down further? I don't expect that would move any of our statistical rankings much
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There is legitimate path towards MU being knocked out entirely before next Sunday. According to Bracketville (#1 bracketology) we are one of the last four byes. Yet another loss to Seton Hall (and sixth straight loss) will surely put us in the last four in. With just 2-3 bid thieves, we could get knocked off the bubble entirely.
I just don't see how a team that can lose its last six straight games gets into the tournament. Never recall that happening before.
Well it's a good thing we haven't lost 6 straight then.
A loss on Thursday would make it 7 of 8 and four in a row.
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Why, at this point, would another loss to a ranked team knock us down further? I don't expect that would move any of our statistical rankings much
If teams below us (or near us) win a game in their tournament, that would give them a bump too. Florida will be favorited to win a game against Georgia/Ole Miss. UCLA will be favorited to win against Stanford/California. Xavier will be favorited to beat DePaul. Stanford is favorited against California. NC State will be favorited against Wake/Pitt. Texas Tech, the lone underdog, is not favorited against Texas. That is five teams near us on the bubble that are favorited in their conference tournament games (we will be significant underdog).
And, all of that is not considering that there could be bid thieves from other conferences. The AAC, for instance, could have a bid thief from Wichita State/Cincinnati/Memphis/Tulsa/UConn. The A10 could have a bid thief from Rhode Island/SLU.
This board better be ready for the strong possibility we get bumped from the bubble on Sunday, due to teams around us all winning, and us continuing our slide. If we beat SH, then it would solidify our spot. If we lose, it could be catastrophic.
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If teams below us (or near us) win a game in their tournament, that would give them a bump too. Florida will be favorited to win a game against Georgia/Ole Miss. UCLA will be favorited to win against Stanford/California. Xavier will be favorited to beat DePaul. Stanford is favorited against California. NC State will be favorited against Wake/Pitt. Texas Tech, the lone underdog, is not favorited against Texas. That is five teams near us on the bubble that are favorited in their conference tournament games (we will be significant underdog).
And, all of that is not considering that there could be bid thieves from other conferences. The AAC, for instance, could have a bid thief from Wichita State/Cincinnati/Memphis/Tulsa/UConn. The A10 could have a bid thief from Rhode Island/SLU.
This board better be ready for the strong possibility we get bumped from the bubble on Sunday, due to teams around us all winning, and us continuing our slide. If we beat SH, then it would solidify our spot. If we lose, it could be catastrophic.
Nope, people here like JJJ will tell you MU is a "stone cold lock". ?-(
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If teams below us (or near us) win a game in their tournament, that would give them a bump too. Florida will be favorited to win a game against Georgia/Ole Miss. UCLA will be favorited to win against Stanford/California. Xavier will be favorited to beat DePaul. Stanford is favorited against California. NC State will be favorited against Wake/Pitt. Texas Tech, the lone underdog, is not favorited against Texas. That is five teams near us on the bubble that are favorited in their conference tournament games (we will be significant underdog).
And, all of that is not considering that there could be bid thieves from other conferences. The AAC, for instance, could have a bid thief from Wichita State/Cincinnati/Memphis/Tulsa/UConn. The A10 could have a bid thief from Rhode Island/SLU.
This board better be ready for the strong possibility we get bumped from the bubble on Sunday, due to teams around us all winning, and us continuing our slide. If we beat SH, then it would solidify our spot. If we lose, it could be catastrophic.
Good thing I went and bought 600 cases of toilet paper as well....I mean all hell is clearly breaking lose
(https://media.giphy.com/media/PprHjp7DCw4BW/giphy.gif)
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Something positive: Villanova in 2011 lost 10 of their final 15 games, and their last 5 games. Made it in to the tournament as a #9 (lost to #8 George Mason in first round).
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If teams below us (or near us) win a game in their tournament, that would give them a bump too. Florida will be favorited to win a game against Georgia/Ole Miss. UCLA will be favorited to win against Stanford/California. Xavier will be favorited to beat DePaul. Stanford is favorited against California. NC State will be favorited against Wake/Pitt. Texas Tech, the lone underdog, is not favorited against Texas. That is five teams near us on the bubble that are favorited in their conference tournament games (we will be significant underdog).
And, all of that is not considering that there could be bid thieves from other conferences. The AAC, for instance, could have a bid thief from Wichita State/Cincinnati/Memphis/Tulsa/UConn. The A10 could have a bid thief from Rhode Island/SLU.
This board better be ready for the strong possibility we get bumped from the bubble on Sunday, due to teams around us all winning, and us continuing our slide. If we beat SH, then it would solidify our spot. If we lose, it could be catastrophic.
Again, it's just not happening. 95/95 brackets on the matrix have MU in. Compare that to the teams truly on the bubble. The last 4 teams IN are in between 50-75 brackets.
A loss to SHU will not do much. It's a Q1A loss. Our Q1/Q2 record will not be surpassed. We will continue to have an unblemished Q3/Q4 record and better computer numbers than any of the bubble teams. It's not that we have better metrics than some of the bubble teams, we have better metrics than ALL of them.
The only way they miss is in Guru's doomsday scenario where 10 bids get stolen. If that happens for the first time in NCAA history then so be it.
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There is legitimate path towards MU being knocked out entirely before next Sunday. According to Bracketville (#1 bracketology) we are one of the last four byes. Yet another loss to Seton Hall (and sixth straight loss) will surely put us in the last four in. With just 2-3 bid thieves, we could get knocked off the bubble entirely.
I just don't see how a team that can lose its last six straight games gets into the tournament. Never recall that happening before.
Why? He has Florida, UCLA, Xavier, Stanford, Texas Tech, NC State, Texas, Cinci, Richmond, Wichita State, Memphis, Mississippi State, UNI and SLU behind Marquette. Chances are each and every one of them lose before selection Sunday, and chances are, most of them lose to a team worse than Seton Hall.
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For everyone who thinks BM, BrewCity and myself are just making this sh*t up - bracketmatrix was updated this am. These are people who do this for a living - or at the very least - are CBB fanatics that study this stuff daily. 95 brackets updated within the last 24 hours. All 95 brackets have MU in the tournament. The lowest of which is a 10 seed - so none of then even have Marquette in the "last four in".
Marquette is the top 9 seed - 12 at large teams between MU and the NIT. But please, continue to tell us why Marquette is going to miss the tournament.
*Disclaimer*: this is not me defending the way the team has played, or me telling you we should be happy in the slightest with where things are. This is me telling you that their resume is still so much better than the teams behind them. **End Disclaimer**
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Be more humiliating if this insane collapse casued them to miss the ncaa after starting 7 and 4 then making it and getting trounced first. This team just looks done to me. I would expect hall to blow them out of the water than we lose by 10 in dayton
The team that played the second half against St. Johns did not look done to me. Their play the 2nd half is the only thing giving me any hope at this point.
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If teams below us (or near us) win a game in their tournament, that would give them a bump too. Florida will be favorited to win a game against Georgia/Ole Miss. UCLA will be favorited to win against Stanford/California. Xavier will be favorited to beat DePaul. Stanford is favorited against California. NC State will be favorited against Wake/Pitt. Texas Tech, the lone underdog, is not favorited against Texas. That is five teams near us on the bubble that are favorited in their conference tournament games (we will be significant underdog).
And, all of that is not considering that there could be bid thieves from other conferences. The AAC, for instance, could have a bid thief from Wichita State/Cincinnati/Memphis/Tulsa/UConn. The A10 could have a bid thief from Rhode Island/SLU.
This board better be ready for the strong possibility we get bumped from the bubble on Sunday, due to teams around us all winning, and us continuing our slide. If we beat SH, then it would solidify our spot. If we lose, it could be catastrophic.
But that wasn't the statement.
It was stated that a loss to Seton Hall would knock us further down. Nothing to do with bid thieves (which would still effect us even with a win) or anything else. Purely another loss.
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There is legitimate path towards MU being knocked out entirely before next Sunday. According to Bracketville (#1 bracketology) we are one of the last four byes. Yet another loss to Seton Hall (and sixth straight loss) will surely put us in the last four in. With just 2-3 bid thieves, we could get knocked off the bubble entirely.
I just don't see how a team that can lose its last six straight games gets into the tournament. Never recall that happening before.
Losing to Seton Hall won't hurt us much. Wins and losses this week are virtually irrelevant unless they are in a tournament final. Everyone acts like teams can play themselves in or out during Championship Week, but it's rarely the case. We will only move closer to the cut line in the event of bid thieves.
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Losing to Seton Hall won't hurt us much. Wins and losses this week are virtually irrelevant unless they are in a tournament final. Everyone acts like teams can play themselves in or out during Championship Week, but it's rarely the case. We will only move closer to the cut line in the event of bid thieves.
Exactly
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Losing to Seton Hall won't hurt us much. Wins and losses this week are virtually irrelevant unless they are in a tournament final. Everyone acts like teams can play themselves in or out during Championship Week, but it's rarely the case. We will only move closer to the cut line in the event of bid thieves.
Its purely entertainment value. I do think some of the teams right on the bubble can get hurt by losing to a legit bad team in the conference tourney - say Florida loses to Georgie/Ole Miss, Stanford loses to Cal, NC State to Wake/Pitt, Xavier to Depaul, etc. But losing to a good team you're supposed to lose to isn't really going to hurt.
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Losing to Seton Hall won't hurt us much. Wins and losses this week are virtually irrelevant unless they are in a tournament final. Everyone acts like teams can play themselves in or out during Championship Week, but it's rarely the case. We will only move closer to the cut line in the event of bid thieves.
I think that was a big message last year. Most of the teams were picked as the P6 conference championships tipped off.
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Its purely entertainment value. I do think some of the teams right on the bubble can get hurt by losing to a legit bad team in the conference tourney - say Florida loses to Georgie/Ole Miss, Stanford loses to Cal, NC State to Wake/Pitt, Xavier to Depaul, etc. But losing to a good team you're supposed to lose to isn't really going to hurt.
Tell Texas-Texas Tech that their tourney matchup this week doesn't matter. Loser is out. Winner likely IN
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Tell Texas-Texas Tech that their tourney matchup this week doesn't matter. Loser is out. Winner likely IN
Those teams are on the bubble....MU is not
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Those teams are on the bubble....MU is not
Yep. No denying that one matters. Same with Stanford-UCLA assuming Stanford gets past Cal.
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Wait...Chris Beard is on the bubble???
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Wait...Chris Beard is on the bubble???
Yeah my bad, in my haste I went plural....never go full plural.
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Yeah my bad, in my haste I went plural....never go full plural.
No I'm just shocked that the coach some people here were breathlessly talking about as being a fantastic coach is in danger of not making the tournament.
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Tell Texas-Texas Tech that their tourney matchup this week doesn't matter. Loser is out. Winner likely IN
According to some bracketologists that work for networks. I'm not at all convinced that's correct. I think Texas may need to win out.
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Why, at this point, would another loss to a ranked team knock us down further? I don't expect that would move any of our statistical rankings much
I do not think a close loss hurts us much especially if we beat the predicted net line. I would be very concerned, if we got beat badly in the game,
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Losing to Seton Hall won't hurt us much. Wins and losses this week are virtually irrelevant unless they are in a tournament final. Everyone acts like teams can play themselves in or out during Championship Week, but it's rarely the case. We will only move closer to the cut line in the event of bid thieves.
It is certainly the case for Xavier. Lose to DePaul and they are out. Beat DePaul and they are in.
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Question for someone who really understands the Net. Does it matter to us whether DePaul or Xavier wins the game?
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Bracketville lists six teams above the bubble that could use a conference tourney win to dance. Marquette is listed as one of those teams:
https://twitter.com/BracketguyDave/status/1237130674492112908?s=19
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It is certainly the case for Xavier. Lose to DePaul and they are out. Beat DePaul and they are in.
That's not a certainty at all. Games this week historically don't mean as much as regular season games, no matter what the committee says. Everyone says these are "play-in games" all the time, but historically that rarely seems to be the case.
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MU fans are in a “bubble.” See how bad their team is playing and assume the worst. Where every bracket person of the 95 sees the whole picture of every team and places MU where they should be.
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ETSU beats Wofford. Unsure if they would have been given a bid, but that's irrelevant now. No bid thief from the SoCon.
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Gonzaga holds off San Francisco. No bid stealer from the WCC.
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Final bracketmatrix update from late last night.
Marquette in 124/124 brackets. Still the top 9 seed. Most have Marquette as 9. Six brackets have them as 7, and two brackets as an 11.
12 at large teams between Marquette and the NIT.
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https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2020/03/07/bracketology-bubble-watch-ncaa-tournament-2020/
we're ok.
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https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2020/03/07/bracketology-bubble-watch-ncaa-tournament-2020/
we're ok.
That article was written on Saturday, just FYI.
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That article was written on Saturday, just FYI.
Saturday after the loss, though.
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I saw local breaking news. Another team in the NCAA without playing the conference tournament:
Ivy League Men’s and Women’s Basketball Tournaments have been canceled. All tickets will be refunded in full. The Yale Men’s Basketball team is the League’s regular-season champions, so as a result, they will represent the Ivy League in the NCAA tournament.
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The Big East is considering cancelling their Tournament and awarding the title and auto-bid to St John's as they were the host. Would give the league a shot at a record 80% of their teams in the field.
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Can you imagine if they cancelled the NCAA tournament? We could prolong these silly conversations about whether MU would get an at-large until November...
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Boy, the media sure has people running scared about this thing, don't they?? I mean Ivy league cancels?? come on, you couldn't have just played it in front of no fans(which I think is stupid too)??
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Probably less the media and more the rapid ability of disease spread with a 3.8% fatality rate.
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Probably less the media and more the rapid ability of disease spread with a 3.8% fatality rate.
Eh...I worry more about things like MU finding themselves. You could get Corona anywhere, and it's not like you would know it...there's not big flashing lights to warn you. Most people if they are healthy have minor symptoms anyway. Sorry, I just don't worry about things like that. What are you gonna do?? Can't live in a bubble. Heck we could all get it at work.
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Eh...I worry more about things like MU finding themselves. You could get Corona anywhere, and it's not like you would know it...there's not big flashing lights to warn you. Most people if they are healthy have minor symptoms anyway. Sorry, I just don't worry about things like that. What are you gonna do?? Can't live in a bubble. Heck we could all get it at work.
Sure, but most people don't work in places with thousands of people from different regions congregating in an enclosed space at the same time. Also, the virus lives for 12 days on shed skin, so if someone attended for one day it would remain a risk for nearly two weeks.
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Can you imagine if they cancelled the NCAA tournament? We could prolong these silly conversations about whether MU would get an at-large until November...
There’s no chance the tourney is canceled, but there’s some chance if not a decent one that it’s played without fans. I can’t even imagine what that would look/sound like.
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This really is getting absurd..
https://twitter.com/GovMikeDeWine/status/1237447236419633153?s=20
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Probably less the media and more the rapid ability of disease spread with a 3.8% fatality rate.
Its like.02 % in ppl 20 to 60
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Boy, the media sure has people running scared about this thing, don't they?? I mean Ivy league cancels?? come on, you couldn't have just played it in front of no fans(which I think is stupid too)??
Canceling the tournament is kinda silly. I guess if they have reasonable doubts no fans seems sensible
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Its like.02 % in ppl 20 to 60
But it's a virus. So you expose thousands of people, the ones that contract it expose whomever they come in contact with, and there will be plenty not between the ages of 20-60.
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Probably less the media and more the rapid ability of disease spread with a 3.8% fatality rate.
I'll worry when the doctors start worrying.
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But it's a virus. So you expose thousands of people, the ones that contract it expose whomever they come in contact with, and there will be plenty not between the ages of 20-60.
I suppose
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Can we avoid turning an ncaa tournament thread into a coronavirus thread?
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Can we avoid turning an ncaa tournament thread into a coronavirus thread?
That's how viruses work.
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That's how viruses work.
Nice
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Can we avoid turning an ncaa tournament thread into a coronavirus thread?
The way things are going, probably not.
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(http://media2.giphy.com/media/3o6Mb4np1j6ZosVdvi/giphy.gif)
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Lunardi, who seems to be on the lower end of bracketologists in terms of seeding Marquette, came out with an update a little bit ago. Still has MU 8 spots from the NIT. However, he did a little "in with a win" "out with a loss" analysis, and MU was not mentioned in either, insinuating that even he thinks MU is in regardless of the result on Thursday.
Here is who he listed:
In with a win: Stanford (vs. Cal), Texas or Texas Tech (play eachother), Indiana (vs. Nebraska), UCLA (Stanford or Cal), Wichita State (UCONN).
Out with a loss: NC State (vs. Wake/Pitt), Xavier (vs. Depaul), Cincy (vs. UCF/USF), Richmond (vs. Davidson/LaSalle), and Mississippi State (TBD).
Seems he draws a line after Arizona State, because they are not mentioned either. His last 8 in are Marquette, Arizona State, Texas Tech, UCLA, Stanford, Indiana, Texas and NC State. Then first 8 out as Richmond, X, Wichita State, Memphis, Miss State, Tulsa, Purdue and UNI.
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There’s no chance the tourney is canceled, but there’s some chance if not a decent one that it’s played without fans. I can’t even imagine what that would look/sound like.
Wojo would not get booed. So there's that.
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Can we avoid turning an ncaa tournament thread into a coronavirus thread?
Well, let's think this through. Can we (cough cough cough, hack hack, oh noooo, legs and arms flail and body crumples to the floor.
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Lunardi, who seems to be on the lower end of bracketologists in terms of seeding Marquette, came out with an update a little bit ago. Still has MU 8 spots from the NIT. However, he did a little "in with a win" "out with a loss" analysis, and MU was not mentioned in either, insinuating that even he thinks MU is in with a loss on Thursday.
Here is who he listed:
In with a win: Stanford (vs. Cal), Texas or Texas Tech (play eachother), Indiana (vs. Nebraska), UCLA (Stanford or Cal), Wichita State (UCONN).
Out with a loss: NC State (vs. Wake/Pitt), Xavier (vs. Depaul), Cincy (vs. UCF/USF), Richmond (vs. Davidson/LaSalle), and Mississippi State (TBD).
My bigger concern would them being in Dayton...that would be just...gross.
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My bigger concern would them being in Dayton...that would be just...gross.
I mean, I'm certainly not rooting for that scenario, and frankly don't see it happening, but if it happens I sure as sh*t wouldn't consider that my biggest concern. Much prefer that than the NIT.
If the committee wants to throw teams like Marquette and Indiana in Dayton because all they did was lose the last month, can't really blame them at this point (assuming loss to Hall). Though if the committee does throw MU in Dayton, they'd be rewarding teams with significantly inferior resumes to Marquette, and that's not their job, so I don't think it happen.
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I mean, I'm certainly not rooting for that scenario, and frankly don't see it happening, but if it happens I sure as sh*t wouldn't consider that my biggest concern. Much prefer that than the NIT.
If the committee wants to throw teams like Marquette and Indiana in Dayton because all they did was lose the last month, can't really blame them at this point (assuming loss to Hall). Though if the committee does throw MU in Dayton, they'd be rewarding teams with significantly inferior resumes to Marquette, and that's not their job, so I don't think it happen.
The biggest issue with being in Dayton is if you lose...well, it feels like you weren't even in the tournament. Don't @ me
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Each tournament is its own deal, but I was looking back at last year and a few notables:
OSU was 8-12 (19-14) in B10 and had lost 7 of its last 10. It got an 11 seed (no Dayton).
Oklahoma went 7-11 (19-13) in B12, and was 4-8 in its last 12 and got a 9 seed.
Minnesota went 9-11 (21-13) in the B10 and was a 10 seed.
Florida went 9-9 (20-15) in SEC and was 10 seed.
St. Johns went 8-10 (20-11) in the BE and legitimately played no one in the non-con and was in the play-in game.
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Each tournament is its own deal, but I was looking back at last year and a few notables:
OSU was 8-12 (19-14) in B10 and had lost 7 of its last 10. It got an 11 seed (no Dayton).
And Ohio State's best Kenpom win was vs. 29 Cincy. Marquette has 3 wins better than that this year.
Oklahoma went 7-11 (19-13) in B12, and was 4-8 in its last 12 and got a 9 seed.
Minnesota went 9-11 (21-13) in the B10 and was a 10 seed.
Florida went 9-9 (20-15) in SEC and was 10 seed.
St. Johns went 8-10 (20-11) in the BE and legitimately played no one in the non-con and was in the play-in game.
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You could get Corona anywhere, ...[snip].... Sorry, I just don't worry about things like that.
From the guy they spends months worrying about a home loss to PC. Classic
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Lunardi wondering this morning if the committee might relax seeds in order to minimize air travel due to Corona
https://twitter.com/ESPNLunardi/status/1237738064056922113?s=20
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From the guy they spends months worrying about a home loss to PC. Classic
That's because I worry about important things...if I get Corona, I will get better..MU however will never make up that freaking home loss to PC.
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That's because I worry about important things...if I get Corona, I will get better..MU however will never make up that freaking home loss to PC.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/6ecbd22fffe5bcd4fc1492ff6fb8bfce/tenor.gif?itemid=3949803)
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That's because I worry about important things...if I get Corona, I will get better..MU however will never make up that freaking home loss to PC.
“Ain't no sense worryin' about the things you got control over, 'cause if you got control over 'em, ain't no sense worryin'. And ain't no sense worryin' about the things you don't got control over, 'cause if you don't got control over 'em, ain't no sense worryin'.”
― Mickey Rivers
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The off-season discussion here would be epic if we won in Dayton and lost in the first round. We’d have a thread the length of the Recruiting thread debating if a Dayton win actually counts as a tournament win.
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That's because I worry about important things...if I get Corona, I will get better..MU however will never make up that freaking home loss to PC.
This can't be real.
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That's because I worry about important things...if I get Corona, I will get better..MU however will never make up that freaking home loss to PC.
I think beating PC in the BET would more than make up for it.
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This can't be real.
Oh, its real.
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Oh, its real.
And it's spectacular...ly sad
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Thats why I have the "self proclaimed Guru " on IGNORE! ! ! I don't have to read his drivel... IF no one "quoted" or answered his inane comments, he would go away ! ! ! I could only hope ! ! ! 8-)
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The way people worry about this Corona stuff is ridiculous IMO. I mean do all of you just stay inside your house until this is over with?? I live my life, we all should. The absolute LAST thing I'm worried about is if I get some virus or something...I've had virus's before, and amazingly...I've recovered. Were all going to die sometime, right?? Unless all of you think we're invincible?? When it's my time, it's my time. Not a damn thing I can do about it.
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The way people worry about this Corona stuff is ridiculous IMO. I mean do all of you just stay inside your house until this is over with?? I live my life, we all should. The absolute LAST thing I'm worried about is if I get some virus or something...I've had virus's before, and amazingly...I've recovered. Were all going to die sometime, right?? Unless all of you think we're invincible?? When it's my time, it's my time. Not a damn thing I can do about it.
I counted nine I or my's. Here's the thing. It isn't about you.
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I counted nine I or my's. Here's the thing. It isn't about you.
Of course it's not...it's about YOU and others, right?? Of course it is..Look, If I even think I'm sick(which is VERY rare for me), I'm not going anywhere in public where I could spread it. That's just me though. Seems pretty simple, really.
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Of course it's not...it's about YOU and others, right?? Of course it is..Look, If I even think I'm sick(which is VERY rare for me), I'm not going anywhere in public where I could spread it. That's just me though. Seems pretty simple, really.
You could be asymptomatic and spread it without knowing, you know, like to patients.
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You could be asymptomatic and spread it without knowing, you know, like to patients.
Wait...are you saying that dude is a doctor?
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You could be asymptomatic and spread it without knowing, you know, like to patients.
Sure, I get that...and so that applies to EVERY single person alive...so again, should we all just stay in our houses for an undetermined amount of time, for fear of spreading it?? That's basically what everyone is saying essentially. We can give bad genes to our kids without knowing it until after they are born. Yeah we hate it, it sucks, but at the end of the day, there was nothing we could do about it.
Besides, at somewhere with massive amounts of people, if the worry is you feel you could give it to someone else...it's simple, don't go if you're that worried about it. Because as you said you may not even know you had it to begin with so what the hell are you supposed to do?? Even if it ends up someone else where you were got it and there were 50,000 people there, odds are at least one other person had it, so it could have been them that passed it to someone, right??
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I started a coronavirus thread, so the cornavirus could be discussed there...
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Back to bracketology / bubble talk...
NC State up 5 on Pitt with 1 min left in the 1H in a game NC State likely needs to win to stay in the convo.
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Back to bracketology / bubble talk...
NC State up 5 on Pitt with 1 min left in the 1H in a game NC State likely needs to win to stay in the convorona.
Fixed.
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Fixed.
Today's winner of the internet.
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Back to bracketology / bubble talk...
NC State up 5 on Pitt with 1 min left in the 1H in a game NC State likely needs to win to stay in the convo.
NC State up 10, 15 to play.
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Is there a convenient place where I can see who I need to be rooting for to keep MU off the bubble? Yes, I am lazy.
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Is there a convenient place where I can see who I need to be rooting for to keep MU off the bubble? Yes, I am lazy.
http://www.bracketmatrix.com/
Root for anyone below MU to lose. And root for conference tournament favorites, or at least teams above MU in that list to win their tournaments.
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NC State up 10, 15 to play.
NC State pulling away. This win certainly doesn't lock them in, but avoids another bad loss.
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http://www.bracketmatrix.com/
Root for anyone below MU to lose. And root for conference tournament favorites, or at least teams above MU in that list to win their tournaments.
Thank you!
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Nebraska hanging tight with Indiana 12 mins in.
Probably a game Indiana has to win.
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Nebraska hanging tight with Indiana 12 mins in.
Probably a game Indiana has to win.
Indiana pulling away.
Cal up early on Stanford. Would be a tough loss for Stanford.
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Indiana pulling away.
Cal up early on Stanford. Would be a tough loss for Stanford.
Stanford down 10 with 10 to play. Not that any of this matters anymore.
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It might feel that way. Yet, we don't know.
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Stanford going to lose to Cal. So that's a good result for bubble teams.
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X loses to DePaul
My heart isn't in this since the tournament will clearly be canceled, but if MU wasn't a lock before (they were) then they are now.
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No conference tournaments = no bid thieves. Good for MU!
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No conference tournaments = no selection show?
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No conference tournaments = no selection show?
Corona=Cancel Tournament
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No conference tournaments = no selection show?
No NCAAA tournament = no selection show.
I think it's inevitable, at this point.
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NCAA will be postponed
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NCAA will be postponed
Canceled*
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Cuncel da saeson
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Canceled*
maybe but word is postponed will be announced soon
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No NCAAA tournament = no selection show.
I think it's inevitable, at this point.
Correct. These decisions by conferences were made knowing full well that if they went forward with canceling their tournaments, that would spell doom for the NCAAs.
Dominoes are also falling rapidly. NHL season is postponed and MLB set to make announcement soon (inside info here; I'm the only one that gets updates from ESPN on my phone, I trust).
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maybe but word is postponed will be announced soon
It will be easy to postpone now that fans will not be allowed to attend. Of course it will also be easy to cancel it all together.
I feel sorry for Dayton fans, because it probably will be another 50+ years before they have a team with a reasonable chance to win the tournament.
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It will be easy to postpone now that fans will not be allowed to attend. Of course it will also be easy to cancel it all together.
I feel sorry for Dayton fans, because it probably will be another 50+ years before they have a team with a reasonable chance to win the tournament.
Every cloud has a silver lining
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Final Lunardi bracket.
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That bracket could have been interesting. Dayton, I would take my chances with as a #1.
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That bracket could have been interesting. Dayton, I would take my chances with as a #1.
we wouldn't have played Dayton, we'd have gotten Kansas (Omaha site).
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we wouldn't have played Dayton, we'd have gotten Kansas (Omaha site).
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Dayton comes in 4th-6th in the BE
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Dayton comes in 4th-6th in the BE
No. Dayton wins the BE. But they have 3-5 losses in it.
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No. Dayton wins the BE. But they have 3-5 losses in it.
Yeah. Dayton was awesome. Nothing to suggest they would have been anything other than great in any conference. Crutcher and Toppin were legit.
Legit title contender, so maybe this tournament being cancelled was a good thing.
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Final Lunardi bracket.
Jerry Palm had Marquette as an 8 Seed playing Arizona in Omaha in his last Bracketology
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I have some good friends that went to Dayton and I feel bad for them. Not sure I understand the Dayton hate (maybe the Great Midwest tournament thing, but leaving that conference worked-out well for Marquette).
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I have some good friends that went to Dayton and I feel bad for them. Not sure I understand the Dayton hate (maybe the Great Midwest tournament thing, but leaving that conference worked-out well for Marquette).
Someone can correct me but I believe the Dayton hate did come from the Great Midwest days. Dayton apparently acted like they were too good for the GMC and the other schools were lucky to have Dayton in their conference. I think they 'strong armed' the GMC into having the conference tournament at Dayton more often that the proposed plan of rotating among the schools.
Oh well, we all see how the past 20 years has worked out for them. I think they are a nice mid-major program. BUT, we may want to keep an eye on their coach. ;)
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Does anyone know what site lunardi is using to simulate the games on his twitter?
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Sorry I’m late on this thread, but, ABD.
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http://m.espn.com/ncb/bracketology?iteration=281®ion=4&year=2020
Joe Lunardi “way to early” 2021 brackets...
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/YPIrsRqqO7oB2/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a2f60453b8aa471825380600bbdd7ee5295d6869f&rid=giphy.gif)
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http://m.espn.com/ncb/bracketology?iteration=281®ion=4&year=2020
Joe Lunardi “way to early” 2021 brackets...
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/YPIrsRqqO7oB2/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a2f60453b8aa471825380600bbdd7ee5295d6869f&rid=giphy.gif)
Creighton and Villanova 1 seeds.
Marquette next four out.
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Anyone else sad since today would have marked Marquette's third national championship appearance?
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Anyone else sad since today would have marked Marquette's third national championship appearance?
Yes, told my buddy that yesterday, that today we should be getting ready for MU's National Championship game. :(
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Creighton and Villanova 1 seeds.
Marquette next four out.
Fire Wojo!
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Seems fair. A whole lot of scoring and leadership walked out that door. No one knows, especially at a national level, how that gaping hole will be filled.
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Creighton and Villanova 1 seeds.
Marquette next four out.
We won't even be in the conversation.
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We won't even be in the conversation.
Let's see how the next two weeks play out.
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Someone can correct me but I believe the Dayton hate did come from the Great Midwest days. Dayton apparently acted like they were too good for the GMC and the other schools were lucky to have Dayton in their conference. I think they 'strong armed' the GMC into having the conference tournament at Dayton more often that the proposed plan of rotating among the schools.
Oh well, we all see how the past 20 years has worked out for them. I think they are a nice mid-major program. BUT, we may want to keep an eye on their coach. ;)
odd, considering it was never held there.
The following were the locations of the GMC men's basketball tournament.
1992: Chicago Stadium; Chicago, Illinois
1993: The Pyramid; Memphis, Tennessee
1994: Shoemaker Center; Cincinnati, Ohio
1995: Bradley Center; Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Dayton would be an excellent addition to the BE, but I don't see the BE expanding past 11 (to keep true round-robin scheduling) or Xavier supporting such a move.
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Let's see how the next two weeks play out.
Why? 5Dollar has spoken. What is done is done.
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Let's see how the next two weeks play out.
Very true. IMO. No post season as presently constructed.
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Dayton would be an excellent the worst thing to happen addition to the BE, but I don't see the BE expanding past 11 (to keep true round-robin scheduling) or Xavier supporting such a move.
FIFY
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Let's see how the next two weeks play out.
Very fair. If Wojo hits it out of the park we could be contenders.
If he whiffs, 2020-21 will be a long season even if it’s a shortened one.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would guess that a lot of coaches get performance bonuses for conference tourney wins and NCAA appearances. How do schools look at a coach who would have assuredly received an at-large bid, but did not technically make the tournament this year? Would a coach of a "last four in" school get a bonus while a "first four out" coach miss out?
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FIFY
How so? They're like Creighton. Strong history of success (particularly recently), large and loyal fanbase, Catholic school, and within the current geographic footprint.
Some of you all have some strange issue with Dayton.
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How so? They're like Creighton. Strong history of success (particularly recently), large and loyal fanbase, Catholic school, and within the current geographic footprint.
Some of you all have some strange issue with Dayton.
What do they add in terms of markets? Xavier already exists in that part of the country. Dayton is small and inconsistent nationally. Nothing against them personally, but the upside is small.
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How so? They're like Creighton. Strong history of success (particularly recently), large and loyal fanbase, Catholic school, and within the current geographic footprint.
Some of you all have some strange issue with Dayton.
Dayton adds no money to the conference, just an annoying, obnoxious fan base.
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Dayton adds no money to the conference, just an annoying, obnoxious fan base.
ABD
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http://m.espn.com/ncb/bracketology?iteration=281®ion=4&year=2020
Joe Lunardi “way to early” 2021 brackets...
[img]https://media0.giphy.com/media/YPIrsRqqO7oB2/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a2f60453b8aa471825380600bbd
d7ee5295d6869f&rid=giphy.gif[/
Joe Lunardi listed 4 Big East teams in.
If Joe Lunardi counted UCONN As a a Big East team, the Big East actually has 5 Teams in.
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Dayton adds no money to the conference, just an annoying, obnoxious fan base.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/1fc54206eea87ff348fbd313caaf7a40/tenor.gif?itemid=5586054)
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ABD
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/1fc54206eea87ff348fbd313caaf7a40/tenor.gif?itemid=5586054)
TYFYS
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Dayton adds no money to the conference, just an annoying, obnoxious fan base.
Someone better tell Dayton that annoying, obnoxious fan bases in the Big East is OUR thing
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What do they add in terms of markets? Xavier already exists in that part of the country. Dayton is small and inconsistent nationally. Nothing against them personally, but the upside is small.
Exactly. Dayton competes with Ohio St, Xavier, and Cincy in that section of Ohio.
And "strong history of success, particularly recently"...they've won a game in the NCAA's 3 times in the last 30 years. Before the fluky E8 run with Archie Miller, they had been largely irrelevant the majority of their time in the A10. Creighton had been way more of a player in the MVC before joining.
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Off the wall question.
I read earlier this year that UConn AD and other university people were contacted by several schools inquiring about football independence. UConn personnel would not say what universities.
I assume no football program in a P5 conference would go independent. Is there a university that the Big East might be interested in if they went football independent?
Notre Dame obviously although I don't they're leaving the ACC. Beyond that?
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Off the wall question.
I read earlier this year that UConn AD and other university people were contacted by several schools inquiring about football independence. UConn personnel would not say what universities.
I assume no football program in a P5 conference would go independent. Is there a university that the Big East might be interested in if they went football independent?
Notre Dame obviously although I don't they're leaving the ACC. Beyond that?
Temple, though I think Nova would object
Cincy, though I think Xavier would object
Memphis, but they can't stay clean.
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Someone better tell Dayton that annoying, obnoxious fan bases in the Big East is OUR thing
That’s why they need to stay out
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Off the wall question.
I read earlier this year that UConn AD and other university people were contacted by several schools inquiring about football independence. UConn personnel would not say what universities.
I assume no football program in a P5 conference would go independent. Is there a university that the Big East might be interested in if they went football independent?
Notre Dame obviously although I don't they're leaving the ACC. Beyond that?
St. Louis would put the conference in another top 25 media market, which is what it might take to get Fox on board.
Not a great basketball program, but fits with the conference otherwise (i.e. urban, private) and is far enough away from other members that they wouldn't be infringing on anyone's territory.
(And I know this doesn't answer your question about a school with a football program).
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St. Louis would put the conference in another top 25 media market, which is what it might take to get Fox on board.
Not a great basketball program, but fits with the conference otherwise (i.e. urban, private) and is far enough away from other members that they wouldn't be infringing on anyone's territory.
(And I know this doesn't answer your question about a school with a football program).
Honestly, again, you take away the E8 run, and Dayton and SLU aren't all that far off. Since 2000, Dayton leads 7 to 5 in tourney appearances, 3 to 2 in Conference titles, but they both advanced past the first round 3 times and Travis Ford has them moving in the right direction and we'll see what happens when Dayton loses the NPOY. I don't think SLU is all that different than Dayton, plus its a new market.
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Honestly, again, you take away the E8 run, and Dayton and SLU aren't all that far off. Since 2000, Dayton leads 7 to 5 in tourney appearances, 3 to 2 in Conference titles, but they both advanced past the first round 3 times and Travis Ford has them moving in the right direction and we'll see what happens when Dayton loses the NPOY. I don't think SLU is all that different than Dayton, plus its a new market.
SLU isn't going to bring in TV ratings and FS1 is already in the STL market. Plus, only DePaul draws fewer fans per game than SLU. Dayton would be #3 in the conference behind Creighton and MU respectively.
Besides, SLU had their chance to get in.
We're staying at 11.
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Creighton and Villanova 1 seeds.
Marquette next four out.
I found this encouraging. Does the big East only get four bids as predicted in this bracketology? This bracketology considers MU to be the 5th or 6th best team in the Big East, which is far from last place.
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SLU isn't going to bring in TV ratings and FS1 is already in the STL market. Plus, only DePaul draws fewer fans per game than SLU. Dayton would be #3 in the conference behind Creighton and MU respectively.
Besides, SLU had their chance to get in.
We're staying at 11.
I'm not advocating for SLU, just stating that they aren't that much less attractive than Dayton. Also, Dayton would not outstrip Xavier, Nova, or Butler if they played in venues of that size. SLU could sell out Chaifetz every game, like Butler or Xavier do, and still trail Dayton at 80% capacity.
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I found this encouraging. Does the big East only get four bids as predicted in this bracketology? This bracketology considers MU to be the 5th or 6th best team in the Big East, which is far from last place.
Agree I find this encouraging too.
With UConn added The Big East Gets 5 In. Based on this Correct Marquette is listed as 6th place in the Big East Conference.
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iF, Wojo can get us to 6th in the Big East and the NIT i will be impressed. Not sure it's fair to expect that.
Yes, that is the new normal for MU.
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iF, Wojo can get us to 6th in the Big East and the NIT i will be impressed. Not sure it's fair to expect that.
Yes, that is the new normal for MU.
How is that the new normal when we've been in the tournament (or were going to make it) 3/4yrs?
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How is that the new normal when we've been in the tournament (or were going to make it) 3/4yrs?
Because the Nojos don’t care about facts.
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How is that the new normal when we've been in the tournament (or were going to make it) 3/4yrs?
TBF they're the same posters that were convinced that we weren't going to get a bid this year back in November.
I would take bets that this team is on outside looking in come March. Way too many holes and Howard cannot carry a team on his back without a couple more options.
Agreed that this is not a NCAA team, and I don't think it will be much of a debate come Selection Sunday. If MU is a 8-9 seed, that would be Wojo's greatest achievement.
Credit to JayBee for being willing to throw money down, weird that we never saw a response to that?
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59379.0
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How is that the new normal when we've been in the tournament (or were going to make it) 3/4yrs?
Please look up the definition of 'new'.
As someone who firmly supported Wojo's extension, I am now of the opinion he is not good enough for MU and I don't believe he will make another NCAA before he is fired. I truly hope I'm wrong.
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Because the Nojos don’t care about facts.
The bar has been lowered so much.....
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The bar has been lowered so much.....
...continue.
It’s been lowered so much that finishing 6th in the BE and getting to the NIT is the normal? Despite having gone to/would have been to 3 of the past 4 NCAA Tournaments?
So the bar is so far lowered that we are just coming up with a new, completely incorrect, definition of the term “normal?”
Got it.
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...continue.
It’s been lowered so much that finishing 6th in the BE and getting to the NIT is the normal? Despite having gone to/would have been to 3 of the past 4 NCAA Tournaments?
So the bar is so far lowered that we are just coming up with a new, completely incorrect, definition of the term “normal?”
Got it.
None of this matters to panda. Based on my understanding of his posts, the entire success or failure of the season depends on what day of the week NMD falls on.
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...continue.
It’s been lowered so much that finishing 6th in the BE and getting to the NIT is the normal? Despite having gone to/would have been to 3 of the past 4 NCAA Tournaments?
So the bar is so far lowered that we are just coming up with a new, completely incorrect, definition of the term “normal?”
Got it.
I went back to post FF run as most would say that was the moment our program took a significant step forward.
05/06 - 4th place finish 7 seed
06/07 - 6th place finish 8 seed
07/08 - 6th place finish 6 seed
08/09 - 5th place finish 6 seed
09/10 - 5th place finish 6 seed
10/11 - 9th place finish 11 seed
11/12 - 2nd place finish 3 seed
12/13 - Tied for 1st 3 seed
NBE
13/14 - 6th no tournament
Wojo
14/15 - 9th no tournament
15/16 - 7th no tournament
16/17 - tied for 3rd 10 seed
17/18 - tied for 6th no tournament
18/19 - 2nd 6th seed
19/20 - 6th projected on the 9/10 line
So after looking back, is the bar not significantly lower when we barely got in (19/20 and 16/17) and 18/19 which was a monumentally bad collapse only to be rivaled by the 19/20 collapse?
Getting into the tournament has been the minimum expectation with this program with Buzz and Crean. With Wojo, getting in the tournament is somehow a saving grace...Expectations lowered.
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If the first data point is supposed to immediately following the FF run, shouldn't it be the 03/04 season? 8-8 in CUSA, good for 8th place, NIT.
How about 04/05? 7-9 in CUSA, good for 9th place, NIT.
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If the first data point is supposed to immediately following the FF run, shouldn't it be the 03/04 season? 8-8 in CUSA, good for 8th place, NIT.
How about 04/05? 7-9 in CUSA, good for 9th place, NIT.
My mistake - Include the final four year and DWade’s first season as well and it’s a deal.
Mediocre seasons are much more palatable when you have confidence the leader of your program can consistently attain positive finishes.
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My mistake - Include the final four year and DWade’s first season as well and it’s a deal.
Mediocre seasons are much more palatable when you have confidence the leader of your program can consistently attain positive finishes.
Or standards immediately get raised following any level of success. Look at what major portions of our fan base think of the coach that got our first FF in decades. Why? Because he couldn't follow it up and bolted. Look at his successor, who went S16, S16, E8. Couldn't keep it up and bolted. Large portions of the fan base aren't too keen on him either.
I'm as frustrated as anyone at the lack of postseason success under Wojo, but let's not pretend like as soon as he wins a game, all the nojo-ers will suddenly change. They'll raise their standards. One win per tourney won't be enough, they'll want S16 every year. If that's attained, if no E8 comes within a few years they'll get unruly again. FF after that.
Look at what happened with Jamie Dixon at Pitt. Great coach, multiple Beast Championships and #1 seeds. Never got a FF, fans ran him off. Look where Pitt is now
Rick Barnes at Texas, under .500 twice in B12 play, but because it came in 2 of his 3 final season, fans got unruly, and now they're stuck with Shaka, while he's rebuilding Tenn.
Grumblings of the same thing happening to Sean Miller (regardless of sanctions or lack there-of). Multiple E8, multiple S16, multiple PAC 12 championships, but he hasn't gotten the FF.
Now I'm not comparing Wojo to any of those coaches, if he went S16, E8, E8 (Miller from 13-15) the only one here complaining would be Willy, but the point remains, that no matter what success you have, the fans are always going to demand to be taken up to that next level. Too many fans only look at how many teams were remaining when you got eliminated, and not everything that has taken place up until that point.
“Success is a journey, not a destination. The doing is often more important than the outcome." - Arthur Ashe
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Nothing that you said changes the fact that expectations have been lowered.
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Nothing that you said changes the fact that expectations have been lowered.
Let me ask you a hypothetical then.
Since the standard was set during Crean's tenure (according to you) say Crean rejects I4. Mindset of "I've been here almost a decade, I've brought them a FF, I've got a great Senior class, my popularity is going to skyrocket once my check for the soccer stadium clears". He then proceeds exactly to recreate what he had done. NCAA appearance 55% of the time (5 of 9 years), NCAA win 22% of the seasons (2 of 9), making it past the first weekend 11% of the time (1 of 9). Do you think the fan base would be happy with him?
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Next year will be interesting. We lost a great player in Howard. However, Howard was absolutely terrible when the game was on the line. Of course every opposing coach knew he would have the ball. However, that does not excuse Howard from more than once trying to split 2 defenders and losing the ball.
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Let me ask you a hypothetical then.
Since the standard was set during Crean's tenure (according to you) say Crean rejects I4. Mindset of "I've been here almost a decade, I've brought them a FF, I've got a great Senior class, my popularity is going to skyrocket once my check for the soccer stadium clears". He then proceeds exactly to recreate what he had done. NCAA appearance 55% of the time (5 of 9 years), NCAA win 22% of the seasons (2 of 9), making it past the first weekend 11% of the time (1 of 9). Do you think the fan base would be happy with him?
It's great to be a Wojo supporter, I admire your optimism and hope he does well. But Wojo is not in Crean's class as a coach. This is where Pro-Jo's start to loose the argument. No different than claiming Wojo is the worst coach ever.
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It's great to be a Wojo supporter, I admire your optimism and hope he does well. But Wojo is not in Crean's class as a coach. This is where Pro-Jo's start to loose the argument. No different than claiming Wojo is the worst coach ever.
I'm a Marquette supporter, and since I have no say in who the coach is, I support whoever the coach currently is. Same question to you, that you conveniently ignored. 55% bid rate, 22% win rate, 11% multi-win rate, these are the ratios that our "high expectations" are based on. Let's do the math, a bid this year would have gotten Wojo to 50% bid rate (this was a guarantee in my eye, others may disagree). IF he had won a game that would have been 16%, so 6 percent below Crean, and he would have either been 11 below or 5 percent above in the multi-win rate.
Lets say we get a bid next year (by no means a guarantee), Wojo is up to 57% bid rate (above Crean), a win + potentially a win this year would put him at 28% win rate (above Crean) S16 or better (either this or next year) would put him at 14% (above Crean).
As much as my being a MU fan may cause me to have a glue and gold tint regarding whomever the current coach is, being a Nojo-er by default give you a pro Crean or Buzz tint. I can admit my biases, can you admit yours?
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Let me ask you a hypothetical then.
Since the standard was set during Crean's tenure (according to you) say Crean rejects I4. Mindset of "I've been here almost a decade, I've brought them a FF, I've got a great Senior class, my popularity is going to skyrocket once my check for the soccer stadium clears". He then proceeds exactly to recreate what he had done. NCAA appearance 55% of the time (5 of 9 years), NCAA win 22% of the seasons (2 of 9), making it past the first weekend 11% of the time (1 of 9). Do you think the fan base would be happy with him?
Fans will always want more. From Duke to Akron, I’m sure you can find supporters who have expectations which are insurmountable for the program. That’s not exclusive to Marquette.
Your hypothetical still doesn’t address that Marquette very recently had a much higher floor than it does now.
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I'm a Marquette supporter, and since I have no say in who the coach is, I support whoever the coach currently is. Same question to you, that you conveniently ignored. 55% bid rate, 22% win rate, 11% multi-win rate, these are the ratios that our "high expectations" are based on. Let's do the math, a bid this year would have gotten Wojo to 50% bid rate (this was a guarantee in my eye, others may disagree). IF he had won a game that would have been 16%, so 6 percent below Crean, and he would have either been 11 below or 5 percent above in the multi-win rate.
Lets say we get a bid next year (by no means a guarantee), Wojo is up to 57% bid rate (above Crean), a win + potentially a win this year would put him at 28% win rate (above Crean) S16 or better (either this or next year) would put him at 14% (above Crean).
As much as my being a MU fan may cause me to have a glue and gold tint regarding whomever the current coach is, being a Nojo-er by default give you a pro Crean or Buzz tint. I can admit my biases, can you admit yours?
Your percentages are quite misguided. I like to look at the whole picture. Crean earned higher seeds and has won in the tournament. Wojo on the other hand???
He snuck into the tournament twice and with his best team, backed in on an awful collapse amidst heavy team turmoil. Embarrassed both times in the tournament. We’ll never know what would have happened this past season, but all signs pointed to another first round exit.
There is zero comparison.
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Fans will always want more. From Duke to Akron, I’m sure you can find supporters who have expectations which are insurmountable for the program. That’s not exclusive to Marquette.
Your hypothetical still doesn’t address that Marquette very recently had a much higher floor than it does now.
Please actually read my posts completely. This "floor" that you asserted as starting during the Crean era is a bid percentage of 55, Wojo is at 50. That hardly constitutes "much higher". I think that you may have an inflated view of certain era's because of one great season. Crean got us a FF, and that shouldn't be taken away from him, but that is the one year that he won more than 1 tourney game, and he only managed to win one tourney game without Wade. Unless Crean was "failing to meet expectations too", because, as others have said, Wojo is pretty much Crean without Wade, to date.
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Did somone say it will be impressive to make the NIT?
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I'm a Marquette supporter, and since I have no say in who the coach is, I support whoever the coach currently is. Same question to you, that you conveniently ignored. 55% bid rate, 22% win rate, 11% multi-win rate, these are the ratios that our "high expectations" are based on. Let's do the math, a bid this year would have gotten Wojo to 50% bid rate (this was a guarantee in my eye, others may disagree). IF he had won a game that would have been 16%, so 6 percent below Crean, and he would have either been 11 below or 5 percent above in the multi-win rate.
Lets say we get a bid next year (by no means a guarantee), Wojo is up to 57% bid rate (above Crean), a win + potentially a win this year would put him at 28% win rate (above Crean) S16 or better (either this or next year) would put him at 14% (above Crean).
As much as my being a MU fan may cause me to have a glue and gold tint regarding whomever the current coach is, being a Nojo-er by default give you a pro Crean or Buzz tint. I can admit my biases, can you admit yours?
You must not have been around when Crean took over at MU. He did an amazing job considering where MU was with conference affiliation and practice facilities. Wojo has way more assets to work with (and I mean relative to where budgets were and are today). There is a very good reason IU hired him. Not even the most Pro-Jo would think a school like IU would hire Wojo.
Also, if we are playing "what if's", what if Crean stayed and took MU to a Final Four every 5 years? (Something he did as opposed to your "what if" of Wojo winning a NCAA game). Would you admit he is a better coach than Wojo?
I went from 100% support of his extension a year ago to off the bandwagon this past season. I guess I'll admit his performance has made me biased against him being coach. I am also biased for coaches that go to Elite 8 and Final Fours.
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Please actually read my posts completely. This "floor" that you asserted as starting during the Crean era is a bid percentage of 55, Wojo is at 50. That hardly constitutes "much higher". I think that you may have an inflated view of certain era's because of one great season. Crean got us a FF, and that shouldn't be taken away from him, but that is the one year that he won more than 1 tourney game, and he only managed to win one tourney game without Wade. Unless Crean was "failing to meet expectations too", because, as others have said, Wojo is pretty much Crean without Wade, to date.
I can’t continue this debate if you’re seriously comparing Wojo to Crean.
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You must not have been around when Crean took over at MU. He did an amazing job considering where MU was with conference affiliation and practice facilities. Wojo has way more assets to work with (and I mean relative to where budgets were and are today). There is a very good reason IU hired him. Not even the most Pro-Jo would think a school like IU would hire Wojo.
Also, if we are playing "what if's", what if Crean stayed and took MU to a Final Four every 5 years? (Something he did as opposed to your "what if" of Wojo winning a NCAA game). Would you admit he is a better coach than Wojo?
I went from 100% support of his extension a year ago to off the bandwagon this past season. I guess I'll admit his performance has made me biased against him being coach. I am also biased for coaches that go to Elite 8 and Final Fours.
You must not have seen what was here in terms of players when Wojo arrived.
We can actually play that "what if" because Crean has continued to coach. If he'd gotten a FF every 5 years, or even another one, I'd say that he was unequivocally better than Wojo. Instead his bid % has dropped from 55 while at MU to 45 overall, and despite having more talent on a few of those I4 teams than he ever had at MU (2003 aside).
You, among a lot here, seem to judge primarily on post-season success, so I find it a bit confusing how you've gone from 100% on board to 100% off board when literally every coach in the country gets an incomplete this season.
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Did somone say it will be impressive to make the NIT?
This year it would be.
I'll be impressed if we are better than .500 as the team stands now.
Maybe this is the year Wojo figures it out but it also maybe the beginning of the end. Many are not crazy about him and I'm not talking about just the students.
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I can’t continue this debate if you’re seriously comparing Wojo to Crean.
Yea, why would we compare two MU coaches, that's silly.
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Yea, why would we compare two MU coaches, that's silly.
Because one has more regular season and post season success than the other. How is this debatable?
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Because one has more regular season and post season success than the other. How is this debatable?
One has been a head coach for 20 years, and had his most successful post-season performance in year 4 suggesting that he may have peaked as a coach then, and any improvement that he has made since has been, at best, on par with the overall growth of the game. The other has been a head coach for 6 years and had his most successful season last year, indicating that he may still be growing in his abilities as a coach.
Also, were you not comparing them here, literally a few hours ago?
I went back to post FF run as most would say that was the moment our program took a significant step forward.
05/06 - 4th place finish 7 seed
06/07 - 6th place finish 8 seed
07/08 - 6th place finish 6 seed
08/09 - 5th place finish 6 seed
09/10 - 5th place finish 6 seed
10/11 - 9th place finish 11 seed
11/12 - 2nd place finish 3 seed
12/13 - Tied for 1st 3 seed
NBE
13/14 - 6th no tournament
Wojo
14/15 - 9th no tournament
15/16 - 7th no tournament
16/17 - tied for 3rd 10 seed
17/18 - tied for 6th no tournament
18/19 - 2nd 6th seed
19/20 - 6th projected on the 9/10 line
So after looking back, is the bar not significantly lower when we barely got in (19/20 and 16/17) and 18/19 which was a monumentally bad collapse only to be rivaled by the 19/20 collapse?
Getting into the tournament has been the minimum expectation with this program with Buzz and Crean. With Wojo, getting in the tournament is somehow a saving grace...Expectations lowered.
Edited to say that if you were to follow your logic, Herb Magee would be a better coach than Jim Calhoun, Dean Smith, Bobby Knight, Al McGuire etc.
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Quote from: Goose on November 25, 2019, 07:02:42 PM
I would take bets that this team is on outside looking in come March. Way too many holes and Howard cannot carry a team on his back without a couple more options.
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Quote from: Warrior of Law on November 25, 2019, 07:21:39 PM
Agreed that this is not a NCAA team, and I don't think it will be much of a debate come Selection Sunday. If MU is a 8-9 seed, that would be Wojo's greatest achievement.
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That's classic stuff, DJO, thanks for posting.
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You must not have seen what was here in terms of players when Wojo arrived.
We can actually play that "what if" because Crean has continued to coach. If he'd gotten a FF every 5 years, or even another one, I'd say that he was unequivocally better than Wojo. Instead his bid % has dropped from 55 while at MU to 45 overall, and despite having more talent on a few of those I4 teams than he ever had at MU (2003 aside).
You, among a lot here, seem to judge primarily on post-season success, so I find it a bit confusing how you've gone from 100% on board to 100% off board when literally every coach in the country gets an incomplete this season.
I know Wojo only had 4 or 5 top 100 players? Crean had 4 or 5 McDonald's All Americans. Deane was great recruiter and Crean walked into an awesome situation.
I think it's foolish to compare Crean to Wojo. I think there are better and more logical arguments to support Wojo but this is not one.
I am off the Wojo bandwagon because he has not had a PG in 6 years and he also could not win at a high level with an AA talent in Howard. I hate to say it but I believe '18-'19 was the high water mark for Wojo.
Can we agree next year looks like an NIT year if all goes well and a reasonable expectation is .500? It's not what I hope for after 6 years. I hope I am 100% wrong but it looks to me like the trajectory of the program is going down.
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I know Wojo only had 4 or 5 top 100 players? Crean had 4 or 5 McDonald's All Americans. Deane was great recruiter and Crean walked into an awesome situation.
I think it's foolish to compare Crean to Wojo. I think there are better and more logical arguments to support Wojo but this is not one.
I am off the Wojo bandwagon because he has not had a PG in 6 years and he also could not win at a high level with an AA talent in Howard. I hate to say it but I believe '18-'19 was the high water mark for Wojo.
Can we agree next year looks like an NIT year if all goes well and a reasonable expectation is .500? It's not what I hope for after 6 years. I hope I am 100% wrong but it looks to me like the trajectory of the program is going down.
I certainly wouldn't agree to this at all. One of the reasons that i dug those old Goose and WOTL posts out was to show how foolish it is to make these grand March predictions in November. I think it is even more foolish to make them the April before. Our roster could look very different in just a couple of days, the non-conference schedule is months from being released. Year-to-year growth by players (and coaches) is at best, not an exact science, and at worse a crapshoot. There is so much that can happen between now and March 2021. I doubt it would happen, but the idea of no basketball at all next year is not as far fetched as it was a couple of weeks ago.
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The other has been a head coach for 6 years and had his most successful season last year, indicating that he may still be growing in his abilities as a coach.
False. 2 years ago was way better. MU was not going to be better than a 5 seed last year. We were going to be a 9-11 seed.
Plus we will not make it this year so the indications are that he is NOT growing as a coach.
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False. 2 years ago was way better. MU was not going to be better than a 5 seed last year. We were going to be a 9-11 seed.
Plus we will not make it this year so the indications are that he is NOT growing as a coach.
I didn't make it clear, we're talking about the same year. In my head the 19/20 season didn't end. 18/19 was his peak to date, 19/20 was a step back, 20/21 is TDB although you seem to be writing us off already. Solid fandom
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I certainly wouldn't agree to this at all. One of the reasons that i dug those old Goose and WOTL posts out was to show how foolish it is to make these grand March predictions in November. I think it is even more foolish to make them the April before. Our roster could look very different in just a couple of days, the non-conference schedule is months from being released. Year-to-year growth by players (and coaches) is at best, not an exact science, and at worse a crapshoot. There is so much that can happen between now and March 2021. I doubt it would happen, but the idea of no basketball at all next year is not as far fetched as it was a couple of weeks ago.
Okay, fair enough, I agree there is a chance we make it into the Tourney IF we add a PG and other players. But as presently constituted, this is not an NCAA team. Not my opinion or fellow Scooper's opinions but ESPN's and Vegas'. (they maybe No-Jo's too?)
I think expecting this team to be better than .500 is terribly unfair to the team, and if that is the expectation, then the fan base and maybe the AD will run Wojo out of town.
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I didn't make it clear, we're talking about the same year. In my head the 19/20 season didn't end. 18/19 was his peak to date, 19/20 was a step back, 20/21 is TDB although you seem to be writing us off already. Solid fandom
Yes, I hate MU. That's why I'm on this board. I am a booster (not big) of MUBB but I am not a fan. Classy. Are you going to call me a racist next?
You don't see me questioning your fandom because you secretly want MU to be below average by keeping Wojo.
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Next year will be interesting. We lost a great player in Howard. However, Howard was absolutely terrible when the game was on the line. Of course every opposing coach knew he would have the ball. However, that does not excuse Howard from more than once trying to split 2 defenders and losing the ball.
I love Markus and am proud of what he accomplished.
This, however, is the problem. When we beat Creighton last year after scoring five points in five seconds, it was Sam who applied the dagger. Teams knew that we had two natural scorers and couldn't tighten the noose around Markus and get away with it. The ultimate problem with this year's team was there were not reliable scorers beyond Markus.
We went into the year thinking the combination of Koby, Brendan and Sacar could offset the loss of the Big and Baby Hauser. If Coach Wojo had a weakness, it was that he put too much reliance on this trio. When Koby was injured and Brendan hibernated, we were lost.
Next year, we will be tournament worthy if Koby becomes what we think he can; if Greg can step in and sop up minutes and if Brendan can be what we hope he can be. Otherwise, we'll be asking an awful lot from our freshmen.
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Okay, fair enough, I agree there is a chance we make it into the Tourney IF we add a PG and other players. But as presently constituted, this is not an NCAA team. Not my opinion or fellow Scooper's opinions but ESPN's and Vegas'. (they maybe No-Jo's too?)
I think expecting this team to be better than .500 is terribly unfair to the team, and if that is the expectation, then the fan base and maybe the AD will run Wojo out of town.
ESPN does that for clicks, I have neither the time nor the desire to check how accurately all of their "way too early" stuff is, especially considering it comes before all the transfer etc. (has us as a FF contender for the 19/20 season).
I think looking at record is, again, way premature, considering the non-conference schedule isn't out yet. I also think that people may be giving other teams too much credit. Naji Marshall at X just declared and hired an agent, so they're losing most of their core that wasn't exactly tearing it up this year. BU loses both Baldwin and McD, I believe those are the last of Holtmann's guys, so no returning player averaging double digits last year. SH just got Aiken, but losing McKnight, Powell and Gil will still have them worse next year. I have no clue what UCONN has, but they didn't exactly tear through the American this year. Yes we lost a ton too, but we also have the highest rated freshman class in the conference, as well as finalists on a couple of potentially very good players that can be added to the roster immediately. I'll again admit that am generally an optimist, but writing any team off 11 months prior to selection sunday is foolish IMO.
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Yes, I hate MU. That's why I'm on this board. I am a booster (not big) of MUBB but I am not a fan. Classy. Are you going to call me a racist next?
You don't see me questioning your fandom because you secretly want MU to be below average by keeping Wojo.
Where did I say that you weren't a fan? You're here in the offseason, that'd kind of make you one by default. Where did I even come close to implying anything whatsoever regarding race/racism?
I'm slightly confused by your overly pessimistic attitude. That ESPN article that you were just so fond of has us as one of the first teams out. I certainly think that a jump from "next four out" to "in" isn't an unrealistic enough one to be declaring 11 months prior to SS that we won't make the tourney. Again, so many variables at play, we could perform exactly as ESPN thinks we will but get in because other team under-perform. There could be a soft bubble. There could be a firm bubble. Making these big declarations like this in April 2020 is silly, that's all I'm saying.
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False. 2 years ago was way better. MU was not going to be better than a 5 seed last year. We were going to be a 9-11 seed.
Plus we will not make it this year so the indications are that he is NOT growing as a coach.
Bracket matrix had Marquette as the first #9 seed. The majority of the projections in their composite had MU as an 8 or 9. A couple had MU as a 7. None had MU as an 11.
There was virtually no chance MU would have been below a 9, and definitely not an 11.
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Making these big declarations like this in April 2020 is silly, that's all I'm saying.
I see your point and it's great to think the best of our team. There are probably 150 fan boards that are predicting their team will go to the NCAA and they are all great fans that truly believe it.
All I'm saying is we need to be realistic so that the coaches and players don't get hammered should we preform to the expectations of independent observers.
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I see your point and it's great to think the best of our team. There are probably 150 fan boards that are predicting their team will go to the NCAA and they are all great fans that truly believe it.
All I'm saying is we need to be realistic so that the coaches and players don't get hammered should we preform to the expectations of independent observers.
I understand where you're coming from and I'm not trying to be Dodds-ish, I'm just saying that there are a ton of variables in place before a ball even gets tipped. Also, the fact that the "experts" have us in the ballpark, which I think is fair. We have a lot of question marks, and if they all align perfectly, I could see us with a higher seed than we were projected this year, if they don't, I could see no postseason at all. Huge target area, and hopefully the floor gets raised in the coming weeks with some new players.
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Bracket matrix had Marquette as the first #9 seed. The majority of the projections in their composite had MU as an 8 or 9. A couple had MU as a 7. None had MU as an 11.
There was virtually no chance MU would have been below a 9, and definitely not an 11.
Okay but if MU lost the first game of the BET, which I think most of us think they would, the seed would have been 9 or 10. The selection committee could have surprised us with an 11. Nobody knows but that was not the central point of my post. We were not as good as the previous year. And most likely, next year will not be as good as this year. The trend is not great.
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I understand where you're coming from and I'm not trying to be Dodds-ish, I'm just saying that there are a ton of variables in place before a ball even gets tipped. Also, the fact that the "experts" have us in the ballpark, which I think is fair. We have a lot of question marks, and if they all align perfectly, I could see us with a higher seed than we were projected this year, if they don't, I could see no postseason at all. Huge target area, and hopefully the floor gets raised in the coming weeks with some new players.
I see your point and you have clear logic. This will play itself out and we'll see if Wojo is the right guy. MU gave themselves an "easy" out after this year so I'm not that worried should it not go well.
I truly hope that Wojo is our coach for the next 10 years because he is doing great but I have major reservations on his ability as of now. Also, I don't like the student's feelings about him. Got to keep the paying customers happy.
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All I'm saying is we need to be realistic so that the coaches and players don't get hammered should we preform to the expectations of independent observers.
The coach who was about to take our team to the NCAAs for the 3rd time in 4 years was getting booed at home, and the first-team All-American who has done nothing but represent our university with class had to hear that his family was getting hassled.
So I don't think expectations that a few yahoos set in April are gonna move the needle too much more than that.
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The coach who was about to take our team to the NCAAs for the 3rd time in 4 years was getting booed at home, and the first-team All-American who has done nothing but represent our university with class had to hear that his family was getting hassled.
So I don't think expectations that a few yahoos set in April are gonna move the needle too much more than that.
And that was from the so called fans.
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The coach who was about to take our team to the NCAAs for the 3rd time in 4 years was getting booed at home, and the first-team All-American who has done nothing but represent our university with class had to hear that his family was getting hassled.
So I don't think expectations that a few yahoos set in April are gonna move the needle too much more than that.
I don't know if the yahoos are predicting a NCAA birth or a losing record.
I do know that MU gave him a very modest extension that gives them an easy out for a reason. That's not some internet BS rumor. MU might be very smart and will cut him loose or regret not locking him up. We shall see.
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I don't know if the yahoos are predicting a NCAA birth or a losing record.
I do know that MU gave him a very modest extension that gives them an easy out for a reason. That's not some internet BS rumor. MU might be very smart and will cut him loose or regret not locking him up. We shall see.
We have don't really know how tough it is for MU to get out of the contract. It's true they gave him a modest extension in years (and maybe salary) but the buyout could be enormous, making it tough for MU to fire him.
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We have don't really know how tough it is for MU to get out of the contract. It's true they gave him a modest extension in years (and maybe salary) but the buyout could be enormous, making it tough for MU to fire him.
Wow. You think that little of MU. We shall see.
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Wow. You think that little of MU. We shall see.
Nah I think it's probably a favorable contract, but a huge buyout is a possibility.
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Wow. You think that little of MU. We shall see.
There's a new world order when it comes to schools paying buyouts to fire coaches. Danny Manning is still coaching at Wake Forest because of it. His record at Wake makes Wojo look like the second coming of Al McGuire.
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Wow. You think that little of MU. We shall see.
It’s not even in the back of the admin’s mind at this point. They’ll take .500 in Big East play and a 9 seed for another decade. Expectations have changed.
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Why would MU put a buyout in the contract? Unless it favors MU there is no reason. MU can most definitely pay Wojo for 2 or 3 years of salary to go away. If Wojo gets that close to the end of his contract then the writing is on the wall.
I don't understand why some of you think MU is so nieve.
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It’s not even in the back of the admin’s mind at this point. They’ll take .500 in Big East play and a 9 seed for another decade. Expectations have changed.
I think you maybe right about expectations. If that level of performance keeps the revenues at a good level then Wojo is safe.
A separation plan from Wojo is 100% in the admin's mind. As it should be. That is regardless of who the coach is. MU is smarter about this stuff than you think.
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Wow. You think that little of MU. We shall see.
I don't think you understand that what might have looked like an affordable buy out when the contract was inked, likely looks decidedly less affordable right now.
Between decreased NCAA pay outs, a University financial position that undoubtedly looks much darker than it did just a few months ago, and questions about enrollment and the viability of having a "normal" season with fans in the stands, I think the last thing Marquette is going to be compelled to do is pay that buy out. And this isn't really the atmosphere where donors are likely going to step up to pay it either.
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I don't think you understand that what might have looked like an affordable buy out when the contract was inked, likely looks decidedly less affordable right now.
Between decreased NCAA pay outs, a University financial position that undoubtedly looks much darker than it did just a few months ago, and questions about enrollment and the viability of having a "normal" season with fans in the stands, I think the last thing Marquette is going to be compelled to do is pay that buy out. And this isn't really the atmosphere where donors are likely going to step up to pay it either.
Good points. I do truly understand the current situation as I own three small businesses. I also don't want Wojo gone right now for multiple reasons but MU will get to a point before his contract is up to move on or extend him. We don't want our head coach trying to recruit with only 2 or 3 years on his contract. That will create an ugly situation.
To believe MU has not foreseen this scenario is crazy. MU is ready to move on if needed.
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology
Lunardi's post Carton transfer bracket has MU in, albeit in Dayton. Will likely be a bubble year, depends on how "ready" the Freshman are.
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The Badgers as a 2 seed. Yuck.
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http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/bracketology
Lunardi's post Carton transfer bracket has MU in, albeit in Dayton. Will likely be a bubble year, depends on how "ready" the Freshman are.
We don't know if Lunardi has DJ figured into the roster. Technically, he has to sit out a year. Until he has formally been granted a waiver, he ain't playing next season. So we might bump up a couple of seed lines when it becomes official.