MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Cheeks on January 04, 2020, 03:57:51 PM
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Someone can correct me if this is wrong for last year and this year thus far
Villanova
Buffalo
Kansas State
Villanova
Wisconsin
Maybe Painted Touches can write an article about that...
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I think you are correct. And this was a geat win, no doubt.
Too bad this isn't typical. It would be much better if efforts like this weren't noteworthy.
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I think you are correct. And this was a geat win, no doubt.
Too bad this isn't typical. It would be much better if efforts like this weren't noteworthy.
They are starting to become typical the past 2 years.
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They are starting to become typical the past 2 years.
So are blowout losses to teams that shouldn't blow us out.
Got to call it both ways.
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So are blowout losses to teams that shouldn't blow us out.
Got to call it both ways.
Unfortunately it isn’t called both ways, and that is the point.
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So are blowout losses to teams that shouldn't blow us out.
Got to call it both ways.
Absolutely. That's my biggest concern about Wojo as a coach.
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I think you are correct. And this was a geat win, no doubt.
Too bad this isn't typical. It would be much better if efforts like this weren't noteworthy.
It's our third win in this game in the last four years, so pretty typical.
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It's our third win in this game in the last four years, so pretty typical.
We'd be in great shape if we played Villanova every game then. Too bad that isn't the case.
It would also suck if we played St. John's every game since we've lost four of seven to them. I guess that's a blessing.
And those two paragraphs sum up my point. We beat good Villanova teams and loss to poor St. John's teams. Well coached teams don't do that.
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We'd be in great shape if we played Villanova every game then. Too bad that isn't the case.
It would also suck if we played St. John's every game since we've lost two of three to them. I guess that's a blessing.
And those two paragraphs sum up my point. We beat good Villanova teams and loss to poor St. John's teams. Well coached teams don't do that.
Guess Roy forgot how to coach.
Huggins forgot how to coach last year.
K and Cal have home losses to terrible teams this year. Must’ve forgot how to coach for a few hours.
Good teams lose games they shouldn’t. It happens. Pros, college, high school, etc.
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We'd be in great shape if we played Villanova every game then. Too bad that isn't the case.
It would also suck if we played St. John's every game since we've lost four of seven to them. I guess that's a blessing.
And those two paragraphs sum up my point. We beat good Villanova teams and loss to poor St. John's teams. Well coached teams don't do that.
St. John's made the tournament last year. They were by no stretch a "poor team."
Villanova beat #1 Kansas two weeks ago and lost to unranked Marquette today. What's that say about the quality of their coaching?
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Guess Roy forgot how to coach.
Huggins forgot how to coach last year.
K and Cal have home losses to terrible teams this year. Must’ve forgot how to coach for a few hours.
Good teams lose games they shouldn’t. It happens. Pros, college, high school, etc.
Look at our track record under Wojo. We're making a habit of losing games we shouldn't. That's the problem.
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St. John's made the tournament last year. They were by no stretch a "poor team."
Villanova beat #1 Kansas two weeks ago and lost to unranked Marquette today. What's that say about the quality of their coaching?
Never reason with a fool.
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St. John's made the tournament last year. They were by no stretch a "poor team."
Villanova beat #1 Kansas two weeks ago and lost to unranked Marquette today. What's that say about the quality of their coaching?
St. John's was 21-13 last year, 8-10 in conference. The year before, 16-17 and 4-14 in conference. The year before that, 14-19 and 7-11.
That isn't a good team during the span I referenced.
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Look at our track record under Wojo. We're making a habit of losing games we shouldn't. That's the problem.
MU is 11-0 in games it was favored this year.
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St. John's was 21-13 last year, 8-10 in conference. The year before, 16-17 and 4-14 in conference. The year before that, 14-19 and 7-11.
That isn't a good team during the span I referenced.
So because St. John's was bad in 2017, Marquette should have beat them on the road in 2019.
Hard to beat that logic.
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MU is 11-0 in games it was favored this year.
I would hope so work the cupcakes we play early!
But when it comes to games that matter, like in March...
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I would hope so work the cupcakes we play early!
But when it comes to games that matter, like in March...
Wins over Purdue and Nova don't matter.
Got it.
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Bray all you want, Wojo is staying.
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Guess Roy forgot how to coach.
Huggins forgot how to coach last year.
K and Cal have home losses to terrible teams this year. Must’ve forgot how to coach for a few hours.
Good teams lose games they shouldn’t. It happens. Pros, college, high school, etc.
You and about three other people think Wojo and Huggins, Coach K and Cal should be thought of as similarly accomplished coaches.
Wojo had a great game today. He deserves kudos for that. Speaking as a fan who was in favor of his modest contract extension he was given; he needs to add significantly to his resume to be given the benefit of the doubt that the coaches you referenced have earned.
Pointing to hall of fame coaches who lose a random game or a down year (after 20+ years)to defend Wojo is a very weak endorsement of Wojo. You could make a case for 150+ coaches to have jobs in the Big East with that logic.
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Pointing to hall of fame coaches who lose a random game or a down year (after 20+ years)to defend Wojo is a very weak endorsement of Wojo. You could make a case for 150+ coaches to have jobs in the Big East with that logic.
This isn't even a defense of Wojo. It's pointing out a ridiculous argument by a single member. Especially as you said, Wojo & team had a great day today.
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You and about three other people think Wojo and Huggins, Coach K and Cal should be thought of as similarly accomplished coaches.
Wojo had a great game today. He deserves kudos for that. Speaking as a fan who was in favor of his modest contract extension he was given; he needs to add significantly to his resume to be given the benefit of the doubt that the coaches you referenced have earned.
Pointing to hall of fame coaches who lose a random game or a down year (after 20+ years)to defend Wojo is a very weak endorsement of Wojo. You could make a case for 150+ coaches to have jobs in the Big East with that logic.
Yup. Great win by Wojo, and he deserves credit for it, same as he deserved an absolute dousing for his game plan against Creighton. We're now 1-1 in the Big East. Where are we going to go from here? Hopefully shutting up anyone who doesn't believe in him. If not, the chirping will continue.
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So because St. John's was bad in 2017, Marquette should have beat them on the road in 2019.
Hard to beat that logic.
Um...no. Someone commented we beat Villanova in two of three, and that this is great. I pointed out we lost four of seven to a poor St. John's team, and that isn't great.
I made no reference to which team should have won where and during which year.
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This isn't even a defense of Wojo. It's pointing out a ridiculous argument by a single member. Especially as you said, Wojo & team had a great day today.
Fair enough. I may have been trigger happy due to certain posters who believe Wojo is on a similar track to Coach K and Jay Wright. Which I wish was true but see very little evidence of.
As I said before, great game today for MU and Wojo. Really impressed how he got them to play defense after the Creighton game. Also hopeful with the class for next year.
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Fair enough. I may have been trigger happy due to certain posters who believe Wojo is on a similar track to Coach K and Jay Wright.. Which I wish was true but see very little evidence of.
As I said before, great game today for MU and Wojo. Really impressed how he got them to play defense after the Creighton game. Also hopeful with the class for next year.
Your reading comprehension is very very bad. Nobody has ever said this.
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Fair enough. I may have been trigger happy due to certain posters who believe Wojo is on a similar track to Coach K and Jay Wright. Which I wish was true but see very little evidence of.
As I said before, great game today for MU and Wojo. Really impressed how he got them to play defense after the Creighton game. Also hopeful with the class for next year.
I don’t think anyone says that. When other coaches are brought up it is to show even AP Coach of the decade, National Title coaches, HOF coaches with BETTER teams lose these games, but when Wojo loses them people call for his head....when these guys lose them it’s just basketball.
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Your reading comprehension is very very bad. Nobody has ever said this.
Of course they have.
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I don’t think anyone says that. When other coaches are brought up it is to show even AP Coach of the decade, National Title coaches, HOF coaches with BETTER teams lose these games, but when Wojo loses them people call for his head....when these guys lose them it’s just basketball.
I think the difference is, Coach K, Jay Wright etc, have EARNED the right to lose some WTF games once in awhile because of all they have accomplished. Wojo hasn't earned that right yet.
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Um...no. Someone commented we beat Villanova in two of three, and that this is great. I pointed out we lost four of seven to a poor St. John's team, and that isn't great.
I made no reference to which team should have won where and during which year.
I can't imagine living such a joyless existence that I would come to a Marquette page after a significant win and spend the day pissing and moaning.
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I think the difference is, Coach K, Jay Wright etc, have EARNED the right to lose some WTF games once in awhile because of all they have accomplished. Wojo hasn't earned that right yet.
Wait, all coaches are going to lose WTF games (as evidenced by the greats), but you have to earn the right to lose those? :o
Listen, there are plenty that think Wojo isn't the guy (some would fire him last year, some willing to wait and see), lots that think he's shown enough to keep coaching at Marquette, and approximately zero that say he's going to be like K or Wright. Many hope he becomes like those guys. Some say there's no chance - which may be true, but isn't a fact.
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I think the difference is, Coach K, Jay Wright etc, have EARNED the right to lose some WTF games once in awhile because of all they have accomplished. Wojo hasn't earned that right yet.
Then don’t say, “Well coaches teams don’t get blown out/don’t lose to teams they shouldn’t.” They do. The only way you can possibly debate this is if your argument is there has never been a coach in the history of college basketball that has had well coached teams.
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I think the difference is, Coach K, Jay Wright etc, have EARNED the right to lose some WTF games once in awhile because of all they have accomplished. Wojo hasn't earned that right yet.
That may be the case, but it still remains illogical. End of the day, I don’t care how great a coach you are there will be losses that are out of one’s control. I cannot recall which a HOF coach said it, but something to the extent that coaches influence about 10 to 15% of the outcome. Players play, they make shots, turnovers, smart and bonehead plays.
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Of course they have.
Not they have not. Learn to read. Don’t be blinded by your irrational hatred
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I can't imagine living such a joyless existence that I would come to a Marquette page after a significant win and spend the day pissing and moaning.
I believe in consistency.
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I maintain that Wojo is Crean without Wade. Crean had terrible games. Buzz had terrible games and people wanted him fired after each and every one. Deane, KO, terrible games. Dukiet just stunk. At the MSU Duke elite 8 game, I heard Duke fans say that the game has passed K by, that he didn't let Zion touch the ball enough. Fans are fickle and frequently stupid after losses.
Wojo will lose more games. But he is on pace to win 100 games in years 2-6. Marquette would be fools to fire a scandal free coach with that record.
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Then don’t say, “Well coaches teams don’t get blown out/don’t lose to teams they shouldn’t.” They do. The only way you can possibly debate this is if your argument is there has never been a coach in the history of college basketball that has had well coached teams.
Sure they do, I have never disputed that...but let's be honest, it has happened more with Wojo Coached teams the last 6 years then it has happened with Coach K etc probably in the last 10.
All I keep thinking about was Wojo's first year losing to Omaha AT HOME. That was NOT a good way to start your tenure.
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I maintain that Wojo is Crean without Wade. Crean had terrible games. Buzz had terrible games and people wanted him fired after each and every one. Deane, KO, terrible games. Dukiet just stunk. At the MSU Duke elite 8 game, I heard Duke fans say that the game has passed K by, that he didn't let Zion touch the ball enough. Fans are fickle and frequently stupid after losses.
Wojo will lose more games. But he is on pace to win 100 games in years 2-6. Marquette would be fools to fire a scandal free coach with that record.
I could be wrong on this but isn't that very close to Mike Deane's record when he got axed?
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That may be the case, but it still remains illogical. End of the day, I don’t care how great a coach you are there will be losses that are out of one’s control. I cannot recall which a HOF coach said it, but something to the extent that coaches influence about 10 to 15% of the outcome. Players play, they make shots, turnovers, smart and bonehead plays.
This is 100% true. It is mostly the players that control the outcomes. And players are human. That being said it IS the Coach's. responsibility to put those players in the best possible position to minimize missed shots, turnovers etc. It's never going to be perfect admittedly. But, I personally don't believe that has always been done in Wojo's tenure.
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bUt We LoSt To CrEiGhToN bY a LoT!
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I could be wrong on this but isn't that very close to Mike Deane's record when he got axed?
Deane had just gone .500, had a recruiting class of Krunti Hester coming in, and had said publicly that MU should be content with the NIT mixed with the occasional NCAA bid. But, yes, thanks to a lot of KO's recruits, along with Hutchins and Wardle and the ability to win 46-44 games, Deane won 100 games.
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Not they have not. Learn to read. Don’t be blinded by your irrational hatred
Shrug. I have no 'irrational hatred' and I'm literate. It certainly wasn't anyone critical of Wojo that tossed out comparisons to Coach K or Wright to defend Wojo. The expiration date on that has passed so we haven't seen much of that lately. The critical folks haven't demanded we go back to the Al days either, but everyone accuses them of wanting to be a blue blood anyway. Oh well.
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I can't imagine living such a joyless existence that I would come to a Marquette page after a significant win and spend the day pissing and moaning.
Some people are the “glass is half empty” type
All the bloviating this past week on both sides has been ponderous
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Virtually every team loses games they are not "supposed" to lose each year. With the likes of Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, UNC, UCLA, Ohio St. included. The list goes on. MU is no exception. Even some of these blue bloods miss the tournament each year. Some of ya'll just can't help but talk crap even after a great win. Maybe save it for a few days.
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Deane had just gone .500, had a recruiting class of Krunti Hester coming in, and had said publicly that MU should be content with the NIT mixed with the occasional NCAA bid. But, yes, thanks to a lot of KO's recruits, along with Hutchins and Wardle and the ability to win 46-44 games, Deane won 100 games.
But wait...Even though Deane said that, isn't that what we have gotten under Wojo, and NIT and occasional NCAA bids(with no wins)?? I mean Chicos has stated many times that this is acceptable.
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But wait...Even though Deane said that, isn't that what we have gotten under Wojo, and NIT and occasional NCAA bids(with no wins)?? I mean Chicos has stated many times that this is acceptable.
Krunti Hester v Garcia, Lewis, Oso. Trend line.
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Shrug. I have no 'irrational hatred' and I'm literate. It certainly wasn't anyone critical of Wojo that tossed out comparisons to Coach K or Wright to defend Wojo. The expiration date on that has passed so we haven't seen much of that lately. The critical folks haven't demanded we go back to the Al days either, but everyone accuses them of wanting to be a blue blood anyway. Oh well.
There is being able to read the actual words and then there is being able to comprehend what those words are saying. Again those example are not meant to say Wojo is as good as K or Wright. They are meant to show that even as young coaches the greats sometime struggled. Nobody knows if Wojo will turn out to be great or the worst coach in NCAA history. All I do know is programs that are not patient with coaches they truly believe in will never end up with a Coach K or Wright.
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But wait...Even though Deane said that, isn't that what we have gotten under Wojo, and NIT and occasional NCAA bids(with no wins)?? I mean Chicos has stated many times that this is acceptable.
Anyone who paid attention to the end of the Deane era wouldn't be making this comparison. At least not honestly so.
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There is being able to read the actual words and then there is being able to comprehend what those words are saying. Again those example are not meant to say Wojo is as good as K or Wright. They are meant to show that even as young coaches the greats sometime struggled. Nobody knows if Wojo will turn out to be great or the worst coach in NCAA history. All I do know is programs that are not patient with coaches they truly believe in will never end up with a Coach K or Wright.
You get it. Orange soda does not an probably never will. Too bad
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There is being able to read the actual words and then there is being able to comprehend what those words are saying. Again those example are not meant to say Wojo is as good as K or Wright. They are meant to show that even as young coaches the greats sometime struggled. Nobody knows if Wojo will turn out to be great or the worst coach in NCAA history. All I do know is programs that are not patient with coaches they truly believe in will never end up with a Coach K or Wright.
Sure. There are so many more apt comparisons to coaches who have won zero tournament games in five years and got canned to counter those guys though. They're the outliers. The comparison was always idiotic, and hopefully it's retired now. Folks can preach patience until the end of time. Hopefully this year is the one Wojo turns it around. Today's win was a good start. Go MU!
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You get it. Orange soda does not an probably never will. Too bad
We haven't won an NCAA tournament game in five years. Trust me, I feel pretty safe in my assessment of Wojo's tenure thus far. Hopefully he turns it around.
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(http://members.trainorders.com/swsf/Cruising/Beating%20a%20dead%20horse.jpg)
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Anyone who paid attention to the end of the Deane era wouldn't be making this comparison. At least not honestly so.
Oh I was paying attention...and I have said, even though I am NOT a Wojo supporter, that because of the recruiting class coming in, he has earned a bit of a longer leash with me. That being said, I still wish people wouldn't automatically assume that getting rid of Wojo means the recruiting class leaves. It all depends on who would be brought in. There's been examples of recruits staying at schools plenty of times when a new coach is brought in.
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We haven't won an NCAA tournament game in five years. Trust me, I feel pretty safe in my assessment of Wojo's tenure thus far. Hopefully he turns it around.
Nice shift
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Nice shift
No shift.
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We haven't won an NCAA tournament game in five years. Trust me, I feel pretty safe in my assessment of Wojo's tenure thus far. Hopefully he turns it around.
Actually 6 years...Buzz couldn’t get us in the tournament his last year cuz “he wasn’t trying”.
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Actually 6 years...Buzz couldn’t get us in the tournament his last year cuz “he wasn’t trying”.
This is a ridiculous statement. We lost several games in overtime against a very tough schedule with a starting back court of Thomas and D. Wilson.
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Chco's probably should have tealed that part.
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Actually 6 years...Buzz couldn’t get us in the tournament his last year cuz “he wasn’t trying”.
True. I think Buzz did a crap job his last year instead of 'not trying', but I was just talking about Wojo's tenure. So Buzz's last year plus Wojo's career.
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Actually 6 years...Buzz couldn’t get us in the tournament his last year cuz “he wasn’t trying”.
Yep, Buzz couldn’t get it done all right. Only 8 NCAA tournament wins in 6 years. TC and Wojo have 5 wins between them in 14 years. But at least TC and Wojo were and are “trying”. We’ve got that going for us, which is nice.
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Your reading comprehension is very very bad. Nobody has ever said this.
I guess you and I are reading two different MUScoops.com. I know I'm not the only one who has read this comparison multiple times in the past few years. I'll refrain from personal attacks like you feel the need to.
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I know I'm not the only one who has read this comparison multiple times in the past few years.
You've read it wrong too. I've only ever seen it to say those coaches weren't immediately successful, and that success doesn't always come immediately. I've never seen anyone say we've got the next great coach on our hands. Only that it's still possible he gets there.
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You've read it wrong too. I've only ever seen it to say those coaches weren't immediately successful, and that success doesn't always come immediately. I've never seen anyone say we've got the next great coach on our hands. Only that it's still possible he gets there.
Okay, now what?
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Okay, now what?
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Let's fight!
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Let's fight!
Positions!
There are few coaches who start out poorly and figure it out. Most end up getting fired. I don't understand what makes Wojo one of the lucky few. I'm certainly hoping he's one of them.
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I mean - he's doing pretty well, not sure what you view as so "lucky".
I also have doubts about him getting to "legendary" status. Though I hope he does. I think he'll generally have a winning team, and be in the NCAA tournament more years than not.
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I mean - he's doing pretty well, not sure what you view as so "lucky".
I also have doubts about him getting to "legendary" status. Though I hope he does. I think he'll generally have a winning team, and be in the NCAA tournament more years than not.
Well, he's been a single digit seed in the tourney once, and that was the year he couldn't get his locker room in order and got blasted by a mid major who got blasted in the next round. Certainly not lucky.
But I agree, he'll generally be in the NCAA tournament. I'm not a 'Fire Wojo!' guy. I'm more of a 'We're stuck in no-man's land with Wojo' guy. He'll have more wins like today, for sure. And I credit him for that. But 5+ years in, what you see is what you get.
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This is a ridiculous statement. We lost several games in overtime against a very tough schedule with a starting back court of Thomas and D. Wilson.
I repeated what some posters here have said here about Buzz’s last year. He wasn’t trying or he was sticking it to the administration....that is why I put it in quotes because of how absurd it is. Ners can fill you in.
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This was a nice win. Creighton was a frustrating loss. Ultimately in the end all that matters is winning in March. More winning now makes that more likely, but frankly I don't care if Wojo cuts down the nets as a 10 seed or a 1 seed.
He needs to win a tourney game. Once he does that I (and I think many others) might start to cut him a bit more slack. 6 years with 0 tourney wins doesnt cut it.
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While it's a decent win, one should also note that the #10 in front of Nova isn't quite accurate. This is a rebuild year for Nova and with the extreme parity in college basketball, #10 this year is #25 from a stronger year.
Didn't catch the post game but did Wojo attend and did his voice enter out of Harmonious Sleep Mode?
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There is being able to read the actual words and then there is being able to comprehend what those words are saying. Again those example are not meant to say Wojo is as good as K or Wright. They are meant to show that even as young coaches the greats sometime struggled. Nobody knows if Wojo will turn out to be great or the worst coach in NCAA history. All I do know is programs that are not patient with coaches they truly believe in will never end up with a Coach K or Wright.
Bingo Bingo Chicken Wingo !!!
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While it's a decent win, one should also note that the #10 in front of Nova isn't quite accurate. This is a rebuild year for Nova and with the extreme parity in college basketball, #10 this year is #25 from a stronger year.
Didn't catch the post game but did Wojo attend and did his voice enter out of Harmonious Sleep Mode?
Might want to update your tagline
"If you want to see a reenactment of Poland being invaded during WW2; just tune in anytime MU plays a ranked opponent."
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Clearly, Wojo saw my tagline and that's what was needed to finally play strong. I've now added a new tag line to get us motivated for the coming week. Cross your fingers and hope it works!
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While it's a decent win, one should also note that the #10 in front of Nova isn't quite accurate. This is a rebuild year for Nova and with the extreme parity in college basketball, #10 this year is #25 from a stronger year.
Didn't catch the post game but did Wojo attend and did his voice enter out of Harmonious Sleep Mode?
Ahh yes, the ranking now isn’t accurate but rather a typo or what is it? There are no dominant teams this year and this Villanova team beat them number 1 Kansas just two weeks ago....supposedly that wasn’t accurate either.
I pity you.
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While it's a decent win, one should also note that the #10 in front of Nova isn't quite accurate. This is a rebuild year for Nova and with the extreme parity in college basketball, #10 this year is #25 from a stronger year.
Didn't catch the post game but did Wojo attend and did his voice enter out of Harmonious Sleep Mode?
Wait. Are we attacking Wojo‘s tone? Like do you just not like him as a person and therefore upset about his teams play?
I get it. I was pissed after Creighton. Pissed after many blow out losses. But it happens.
The problem more seems like you’re a 11 year old who is holding a grudge against someone who beat him in marbles so now you just don’t like anything Wojo does.
Get over it. Or grow up.
Or, don’t and just always be of the immature, sad mindset.
But one of those options leads to a better life, decreased risk of Alzheimer’s and Dementia.
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Well, he's been a single digit seed in the tourney once, and that was the year he couldn't get his locker room in order and got blasted by a mid major who got blasted in the next round. Certainly not lucky.
But I agree, he'll generally be in the NCAA tournament. I'm not a 'Fire Wojo!' guy. I'm more of a 'We're stuck in no-man's land with Wojo' guy. He'll have more wins like today, for sure. And I credit him for that. But 5+ years in, what you see is what you get.
5+ years in, what you see is what you get...
Ok this kinda sorta makes sense. From jobs to relationships etc.
On the other hand. There are many coaches who 5+ years rode a roller coaster and now have a solid program with yearly NCAA tourney teams/wins.
So I get the 5 year thing just don’t think it is end all-be all.
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Well, he's been a single digit seed in the tourney once, and that was the year he couldn't get his locker room in order and got blasted by a mid major who got blasted in the next round. Certainly not lucky.
But I agree, he'll generally be in the NCAA tournament. I'm not a 'Fire Wojo!' guy. I'm more of a 'We're stuck in no-man's land with Wojo' guy. He'll have more wins like today, for sure. And I credit him for that. But 5+ years in, what you see is what you get.
How was Al McGuire’s career 5 years in at Belmont Abbey? What you see is what you get?
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How was Al McGuire’s career 5 years in at Belmont Abbey? What you see is what you get?
Jay Wright, Coach K, Al...I'm not banking on outliers, but feel free.
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I could be wrong on this but isn't that very close to Mike Deane's record when he got axed?
If Wojo ever publicly attempts to lower MU's aspirations to a level comparable to what Deane did, he should also be fired.
This has been discussed many time before on this board, but Deane had low aspirations for Marquette and absolutely no energy for recruiting, something not even Wojo's harshest critics would say of him. I think Deane was actually a better bench coach than O'Neill, but he was on a sinking path of his own making, and he was OK with that.
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Jay Wright, Coach K, Al...I'm not banking on outliers, but feel free.
I just think stating what you see is what you get after 5 years is not dealing with human nature or the ability to grow as a person, coach, etc.
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I just think stating what you see is what you get after 5 years is not dealing with human nature or the ability to grow as a person, coach, etc.
Sure, but I think you're the guy who said 5 years to judge, so I don't get why it's suddenly unfair of me to do so.
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I just think stating what you see is what you get after 5 years is not dealing with human nature or the ability to grow as a person, coach, etc.
What are: Things a marriage counselor would say Alex
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If Wojo ever publicly attempts to lower MU's aspirations to a level comparable to what Deane did, he should also be fired.
This has been discussed many time before on this board, but Deane had low aspirations for Marquette and absolutely no energy for recruiting, something not even Wojo's harshest critics would say of him. I think Deane was actually a better bench coach than O'Neill, but he was on a sinking path of his own making, and he was OK with that.
This is completely correct.
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This is completely correct.
It's not. Deane started the recruiting process of Dwayne Wade. He was fired and Tom Crean kept on him.
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It's not. Deane started the recruiting process of Dwayne Wade. He was fired and Tom Crean kept on him.
Dwyane
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It's not. Deane started the recruiting process of Dwayne Wade. He was fired and Tom Crean kept on him.
I'm sure he started the recruiting process on a lot of good players. He just didn't do what was necessary to land them. I think he may very well have been our best sideline coach since Al, but he didn't bring in players.
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It's not. Deane started the recruiting process of Dwayne Wade. He was fired and Tom Crean kept on him.
Deane wouldn't have kept recruiting Wade once he found out he'd be a partial qualifier nor would he have been able to close on him if he had. After Alton Mason, he was extremely skittish of recruiting guys he saw at academically risky. Plus, it was Crean's persistence in getting Wade in front of Father Wild that got O'Hara Hall to bend and accept a partial qualifier.
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Deane had just gone .500, had a recruiting class of Krunti Hester coming in, and had said publicly that MU should be content with the NIT mixed with the occasional NCAA bid. But, yes, thanks to a lot of KO's recruits, along with Hutchins and Wardle and the ability to win 46-44 games, Deane won 100 games.
Hutch was a KO recruit. That class wasn't very good otherwise with McCall (kicked out for two failed drug tests) and Shaw.
Deane's 1998-99 class was his best: Henry, Harris, Nnamaka and Diggs (if only he could have stayed healthy). His prior class was Wardle, Mueller (WO), Barone (transfer), Clausen and Demarcus Minor (who had a very good career at Baylor). The X factor for Deane would have been Alton Mason in the 1996-97 class, who was reportedly ripping up Hutch in practice. But, Mason couldn't hack it academically and left at midterms. That scared Deane off from recruiting academically risky kids after that. Plus, Ledaryl Billingsley reneging on his commitment really hurt Deane too.
And, maybe if Deane had gone after two guys who wanted to come to MU he would have had more success: Chris Mihm and Wally Szczerbiak. Instead, we got Polo and Clausen.
While Deane (until the 1999-2000 Kruntil Hester class, what the hell happened there???) recruited solid players (and he had some who would have never been D1) he never got that one guy who could carry a team to a title.
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Deane wouldn't have kept recruiting Wade once he found out he'd be a partial qualifier nor would he have been able to close on him if he had. After Alton Mason, he was extremely skittish of recruiting guys he saw at academically risky. Plus, it was Crean's persistence in getting Wade in front of Father Wild that got O'Hara Hall to bend and accept a partial qualifier.
One of the best decisions to ever come out of the now demolished building. A truly sliding doors moment.
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Hutch was a KO recruit. That class wasn't very good otherwise with McCall (kicked out for two failed drug tests) and Shaw.
Deane's 1998-99 class was his best: Henry, Harris, Nnamaka and Diggs (if only he could have stayed healthy). His prior class was Wardle, Mueller (WO), Barone (transfer), Clausen and Demarcus Minor (who had a very good career at Baylor). The X factor for Deane would have been Alton Mason in the 1996-97 class, who was reportedly ripping up Hutch in practice. But, Mason couldn't hack it academically and left at midterms. That scared Deane off from recruiting academically risky kids after that. Plus, Ledaryl Billingsley reneging on his commitment really hurt Deane too.
And, maybe if Deane had gone after two guys who wanted to come to MU he would have had more success: Chris Mihm and Wally Szczerbiak. Instead, we got Polo and Clausen.
While Deane (until the 1999-2000 Kruntil Hester class, what the hell happened there???) recruited solid players (and he had some who would have never been D1) he never got that one guy who could carry a team to a title.
Nice context. I never knew this before.
Yeah, I was never a fan of Deane's recruiting. He was a good X's and O's coach and got a lot out of his players. Had he been able to recruit another quality starter or two he might have not been fired. Either way, it worked out for the better. Deane is on record saying he should have never left Sienna. Kevin O'neill on the record as well saying he should have never left MU. Crean didn't flat out say it but alluded to the fact that MU treated him well - much better than Indiana ever did.
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One of the best decisions to ever come out of the now demolished building. A truly sliding doors moment.
That decision singlehandedly brought down MU's USNWR ranking 20 slots. Recruits should only be accepted who will protect MU's elite academic status, and MU should exclude those at risk kids who have historically been a part of MU's mission but bring down the freshmen ACT scores.
To think, this happened on Checks' watch.
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It's not. Deane started the recruiting process of Dwayne Wade. He was fired and Tom Crean kept on him.
This has been said by you multiple times over the years and is complete bull crap. Wade, himself, said so in his book. I pointed this out the last time you made this incorrect statement and here you are again.
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That decision singlehandedly brought down MU's USNWR ranking 20 slots. Recruits should only be accepted who will protect MU's elite academic status, and MU should exclude those at risk kids who have historically been a part of MU's mission but bring down the freshmen ACT scores.
To think, this happened on Checks' watch.
LOL. Incorrect, but it made me laugh.
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MU is 11-0 in games it was favored this year.
I thought we were 5.5 point favorites vs Providence?
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I thought we were 5.5 point favorites vs Providence?
Note the date of the post you replied to.
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Hutch was a KO recruit. That class wasn't very good otherwise with McCall (kicked out for two failed drug tests) and Shaw.
Deane's 1998-99 class was his best: Henry, Harris, Nnamaka and Diggs (if only he could have stayed healthy). His prior class was Wardle, Mueller (WO), Barone (transfer), Clausen and Demarcus Minor (who had a very good career at Baylor). The X factor for Deane would have been Alton Mason in the 1996-97 class, who was reportedly ripping up Hutch in practice. But, Mason couldn't hack it academically and left at midterms. That scared Deane off from recruiting academically risky kids after that. Plus, Ledaryl Billingsley reneging on his commitment really hurt Deane too.
And, maybe if Deane had gone after two guys who wanted to come to MU he would have had more success: Chris Mihm and Wally Szczerbiak. Instead, we got Polo and Clausen.
While Deane (until the 1999-2000 Kruntil Hester class, what the hell happened there???) recruited solid players (and he had some who would have never been D1) he never got that one guy who could carry a team to a title.
Wow. You'd almost think a guy with this level of knowledge and detail was closely involved in the program during those years. And Billy Hoyle aint Cheeks. C'mon man.
Nice recap though.
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Deane had just gone .500, had a recruiting class of Krunti Hester coming in, and had said publicly that MU should be content with the NIT mixed with the occasional NCAA bid. But, yes, thanks to a lot of KO's recruits, along with Hutchins and Wardle and the ability to win 46-44 games, Deane won 100 games.
This. Deane could coach, but he hated recruiting, which is why over time the talent on his teams diminished. He wanted MU to change their expectations of him - NITs being the goal, not NCAAs. NCAAs were a bonus, but not to be expected.
Everything I've heard, Wojo expects to go to the NCAAs. That is his goal, which aligns with MU.
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Wow. You'd almost think a guy with this level of knowledge and detail was closely involved in the program during those years. And Billy Hoyle aint Cheeks. C'mon man.
Nice recap though.
Nope, not Cheeks. However, those were the years I was a student at MU and after graduation, I had a coworker who had been a manager under Deane and he shared a lot of info about those years (that's how I learned about Mason. We always wondered why he just disappeared during the first semester).
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Top 15 wins are good, but the losses to teams we shouldn't lose to even it out