MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Galway Eagle on December 03, 2019, 12:38:43 PM
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Best: it's a wonderful life
Worst: love actually
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Best: Jingle All The Way or Christmas Vacation
Worst: the entire catalog of Christmas moves on Hulu and Netflix currently
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Best: National Lampoons Christmas Vacation or Elf
Worst: Anything made for Hallmark channel
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Best: It's a Wonderful Life, Nightmare Before Christmas and Bad Santa
Worst: Fred Claus, Christmas with the Kranks, Surviving Christmas
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Bad Santa is the most realistic.
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Best: It's a Wonderful Life, Nightmare Before Christmas and Bad Santa
Worst: Fred Claus, Christmas with the Kranks, Surviving Christmas
Saw Christmas with the krans the first time over the weekend. Rough acting, cute plot though. Never seen Bad Santa going to add to my list
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If Die Hard is a Christmas movie then I'm voting for Trading Places as the best. Part of it does take place over Christmas.
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Best: Elf. Honorable Metion: The Santa Clause
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Best: Elf. Honorable Metion: The Santa Clause
As good as the Santa clause is the second and third are god awful
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As good as the Santa clause is the second and third are god awful
Absolutely brutal, made the fiancé shut off 2 the other day.
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Feel like stirring things up a little.
Best: Die Hard
Worst: Bad Santa.
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I, like the movie goers of the era when it was released, don't particularly like It's a Wonderful Life.
Best: A Christmas Story - I think it captures childhood and what it's like to be a child at Christmas during a more innocent time really well. There's probably a backlash against it because it is on so much.
Worst: How the Grinch Stole Christmas (Jim Carrey version).
Other good ones: The Santa Clause, Home Alone. Elf. Jingle All the Way. Die Hard a great movie but just having it set on Christmas Eve does not a Christmas movie make. Traditional Christmas themes are not involved in the movie at all.
Among the Worst: Fred Claus, Four Christmases (keep Vince Vaughan away from my Christmas movies, thank you), Deck the Halls with Matthew Broderick and Danny Devito. Santa Clause 3. Santa Clause 2 is not a good movie and I don't recommend it, but there are plenty of worse Christmas movies.
Cartoon How the Grinch Stole Christmas and A Charlie Brown Christmas capture the spirit of Christmas better than any movie.
As an aside, A Christmas Carol is just a brilliant Christmas story, but none of the umpteen films of the story quite do it for me. The old ones are wildly overacted and the newer ones never seem to quite get it right. Scooged is the best movie version of the story I think.
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I, like the movie goers of the era when it was released, don't particularly like It's a Wonderful Life.
Best: A Christmas Story - I think it captures childhood and what it's like to be a child at Christmas during a more innocent time really well. There's probably a backlash against it because it is on so much.
Worst: How the Grinch Stole Christmas (Jim Carrey version).
Other good ones: The Santa Clause, Home Alone. Elf. Jingle All the Way. Die Hard a great movie but just having it set on Christmas Eve does not a Christmas movie make. Traditional Christmas themes are not involved in the movie at all.
Among the Worst: Fred Claus, Four Christmases (keep Vince Vaughan away from my Christmas movies, thank you), Deck the Halls with Matthew Broderick and Danny Devito. Santa Clause 3. Santa Clause 2 is not a good movie and I don't recommend it, but there are plenty of worse Christmas movies.
Cartoon How the Grinch Stole Christmas and A Charlie Brown Christmas capture the spirit of Christmas better than any movie.
As an aside, A Christmas Carol is just a brilliant Christmas story, but none of the umpteen films of the story quite do it for me. The old ones are wildly overacted and the newer ones never seem to quite get it right. Scooged is the best movie version of the story I think.
Which animated version of the grinch? Because the recent one was horrific
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Which animated version of the grinch? Because the recent one was horrific
The old TV one with Boris Karloff doing the narration.
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The old TV one with Boris Karloff doing the narration.
Gotcha. I assumed as much but had to check
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I thought I was the only one who had seen Jingle All The Way!
Agreed on Elf, Christmas Vacation, Home Alone, The Santa Clause, original Grinch, Scrooged. Does Grumpy Old Men count?
I always like revisiting Christmas episodes of favorite shows as well (The Office, Bob's Burgers, etc.).
I wanted to, but I really didn't like Polar Express.
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As an aside, A Christmas Carol is just a brilliant Christmas story, but none of the umpteen films of the story quite do it for me. The old ones are wildly overacted and the newer ones never seem to quite get it right. Scooged is the best movie version of the story I think.
Mickey's Christmas Carol is good, and it's only half an hour so you don't have to commit to a feature-length film.
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Muppet Christmas Carol is fantastic.
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My best are going to be is categories
Nostaligia: White Christmas
Honorable mention: original Miracle on 34th Street
Comedy: Elf
Honorable mention: South Park Christmas episodes (yeah not a movie but the Christmas related episodes are f'ing hysterical....Christmas critters, Red Sleigh Down, and Mr Hankey the Christmas Poo especially)
Family: A Muppet Christmas Carol
Honorable mention: A Christmas Vacation
Action: Die Hard
Honorable mention: Home Alone
Worst is easily It's A Wonderful Life, it is pure communist schlock and a bad story to boot powered only by warm feelings people have had transferred to them by Boomers
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My best are going to be is categories
Nostaligia: White Christmas
Honorable mention: original Miracle on 34th Street
Comedy: Elf
Honorable mention: South Park Christmas episodes (yeah not a movie but the Christmas related episodes are f'ing hysterical....Christmas critters, Red Sleigh Down, and Mr Hankey the Christmas Poo especially)
Family: A Muppet Christmas Carol
Honorable mention: A Christmas Vacation
Action: Die Hard
Honorable mention: Home Alone
Worst is easily It's A Wonderful Life, it is pure communist schlock and a bad story to boot powered only by warm feelings people have had transferred to them by Boomers
??????
Care to explain?
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Worst is easily It's A Wonderful Life, it is pure communist schlock and a bad story to boot powered only by warm feelings people have had transferred to them by Boomers
"+1"
-- J. Edgar Hoover
(But seriously, the FBI tried to sell this to the HUAC, which took a hard pass).
Also ... politics
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Ah so glad to see the folks who are so clever that say Die Hard is Christmas Movie. 🙄
But for reals, Elf, Home Alone, and I actually really enjoyed the new animated Grinch with Benedict Cumberbatch. The Jim Carey version is gutter trash, and the original is a gold standard.
Depending on age, Bad Santa, XMas Vacation are always a good watch. And put me in the camp, The Christmas Story has run its course and don’t even bother watching when it’s on repeat.
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Home Alone is a good call too.
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"+1"
-- J. Edgar Hoover
(But seriously, the FBI tried to sell this to the HUAC, which took a hard pass).
Also ... politics
Had no idea about that history I meant it largely as a tongue in cheek comment.
Either way it's a boring, over acted movie with a message that's just eh.
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Diehard
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Many of you have hit all the standards but A Very Harold and Kumar Christmas deserves a mention. Completely over the top absurdity but in a good way.
Everyone is ignoring some Christmas horror as well. Krampus from a couple of years ago is super fun.
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Had no idea about that history I meant it largely as a tongue in cheek comment.
Either way it's a boring, over acted movie with a message that's just eh.
The life is a gift and family is the most important thing in life is an "eh" message?
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For me the best: The Bishop's Wife and Going My Way.
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The life is a gift and family is the most important thing in life is an "eh" message?
Let me put it another way, the message is obviously a good one but it is just so earnest and focused on it. I get why people like the movie but for me I want a Christmas movie to be ultimately fun while pushing the "Christmas spirit" message. So I probably should have said the message delivery mechanism was eh as opposed to the message. Basically, I hate sap and overwrought movies.....there is enough of that in the real world, don't need it in my entertainment as well.
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Let me put it another way, the message is obviously a good one but it is just so earnest and focused on it. I get why people like the movie but for me I want a Christmas movie to be ultimately fun while pushing the "Christmas spirit" message. So I probably should have said the message delivery mechanism was eh as opposed to the message. Basically, I hate sap and overwrought movies.....there is enough of that in the real world, don't need it in my entertainment as well.
I mean, it's from the 1940s. Most moves back then suffered from over-acting and schlocky messages.
No idea why it's communist though...
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We basically watch one Christmas movie a night during the month of December each year. So we get through quite a few of them. Here is my breakdown:
My favorites: Christmas Vacation, Die Hard, Trading Places, Muppet Christmas Carol, Elf,
The Over-rated Classics, but still worth watching once a year: Its a Wonderful Life, White Christmas, Miracle on 34th Street, Holiday Affair, Christmas Story, the animated Grinch, Peanuts Christmas
I don't care for, but I humor my wife: Love Actually, Family Stone, The Holiday, The Santa Clause
Guilty Pleasures because they are so bad: Christmas Prince, any other terrible Hallmark movie
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I mean, it's from the 1940s. Most moves back then suffered from over-acting and schlocky messages.
No idea why it's communist though...
Not blaming the movie for being over-acted at schlocky, but it's also why I don't like it so it is what it is. If someone hates Die Hard because its not a Christmas movie or they hate action movies, it's a valid reason not to rank it. We ain't grading on a curve here ;)
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Worst is easily It's A Wonderful Life, it is pure communist schlock and a bad story to boot powered only by warm feelings people have had transferred to them by Boomers
I'm guessing you haven't seen the whole movie. I can understand why one might feel this way having watched the edited version that has made its rounds in the public domain for decades, but I can guarantee you that you'd change your mind if you saw the Director's Cut which includes the lost ending...
https://www.youtube.com/v/vw89o0afb2A
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If Die Hard is a Christmas movie then I'm voting for Trading Places as the best. Part of it does take place over Christmas.
Not a Christmas Movie. Market is closed on Christmas.
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Not a Christmas Movie. Market is closed on Christmas.
Question, does some part of the movie, no matter the length have to occur in the movie for it to be considered a Christmas movie?
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We basically watch one Christmas movie a night during the month of December each year. So we get through quite a few of them. Here is my breakdown:
My favorites: Christmas Vacation, Die Hard, Trading Places, Muppet Christmas Carol, Elf,
The Over-rated Classics, but still worth watching once a year: Its a Wonderful Life, White Christmas, Miracle on 34th Street, Holiday Affair, Christmas Story, the animated Grinch, Peanuts Christmas
I don't care for, but I humor my wife: Love Actually, Family Stone, The Holiday, The Santa Clause
Guilty Pleasures because they are so bad: Christmas Prince, any other terrible Hallmark movie
Family Stone is my guilty pleasure Xmas movie.
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I mean, it's from the 1940s. Most moves back then suffered from over-acting and schlocky messages.
No idea why it's communist though...
The FBI thought it was communist because it had a wealthy, capitalist banker as its villain, while it also magnified the problems of the common man in American society.
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[...]
Worst: How the Grinch Stole Christmas (Jim Carrey version).
[...]
The "everything Jim Carrey is in is trash" rule is in play here.
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The "everything Jim Carrey is in is trash" rule is in play here.
Blasphemy!
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Little known fun fact:
Frank Capra directed Its A Wonderful Life
Frank Capra III was an assistant director for Christmas Vacation
Its A Wonderful Life appeared in Christmas Vacation, as Rusty watches it right before family arrives.
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Blasphemy!
<shrug> Everyone's got their own taste, and I just can't stand him. To each their own.
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I'm guessing you haven't seen the whole movie. I can understand why one might feel this way having watched the edited version that has made its rounds in the public domain for decades, but I can guarantee you that you'd change your mind if you saw the Director's Cut which includes the lost ending...
https://www.youtube.com/v/vw89o0afb2A
I've seen that many times and it is funny, but truthfully, that is one of the things I really don't like about the original. Nothing bad happens to Mr. Potter, who stole many thousands of dollars. He never gets his well-deserved comeuppance.
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The "everything Jim Carrey is in is trash" rule is in play here.
Amen, brother!
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I've seen that many times and it is funny, but truthfully, that is one of the things I really don't like about the original. Nothing bad happens to Mr. Potter, who stole many thousands of dollars. He never gets his well-deserved comeuppance.
Capitalist banker makes bad investments and leads to ruin of his company, which cause harm to the entire town, gets bailed out by the middle class.
Hmm...
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Capitalist banker makes bad investments and leads to ruin of his company, which cause harm to the entire town, gets bailed out by the middle class.
Hmm...
That didn't happen at all did it? Potter just stole the money, he wasn't hard up or anything, right?
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Ah so glad to see the folks who are so clever that say Die Hard is Christmas Movie. 🙄
But for reals, Elf, Home Alone, and I actually really enjoyed the new animated Grinch with Benedict Cumberbatch. The Jim Carey version is gutter trash, and the original is a gold standard.
Depending on age, Bad Santa, XMas Vacation are always a good watch. And put me in the camp, The Christmas Story has run its course and don’t even bother watching when it’s on repeat.
And youre equally clever pointing out that Home Alone is a Christmas movie.
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The Searchers
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/audio/video/2014/11/17/1416224643314/Jeffrey-Hunter-and-John-W-011.jpg?width=620&quality=45&auto=format&fit=max&dpr=2&s=c646cb16e9286b8a48b913891130bacb)
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The original grinch and peanuts Christmas are all time favorites.
Never enjoyed the Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer from the 60s. Don't know if it's the animation or what but it didn't do it for me.
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The original grinch and peanuts Christmas are all time favorites.
Never enjoyed the Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer from the 60s. Don't know if it's the animation or what but it didn't do it for me.
The honest trailer for that Rudolph movie cracks me up.
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This almost deserves it's own thread, as it must be discussed.
Die Hard is not a Christmas movie.
In order for a movie to be considered a "Christmas Movie" it must posses the following three qualities:
1. The setting must take place in or around the holidays and it must be significant to the plot that it is.
2. It must have a positive ending with an uplifting message or story conclusion. (It can be sad, but overall be positive. See: Family Stone)
3. It must be overall family friendly. (You can push boundaries with language or mild violence, ala Home alone or Christmas Vacation, but most parents know when it's gone too far)
External decider/exemption claus: If a movie should fail in any one of these three categories but is still questionably considered a Christmas movie, you can appeal the decision through answering this question. Would it be normal to watch it during any other time of year? Bad Santa would be a good example. It fails in the family friendly category, but still caries the Christmas movie label. To validate that, would you see it played on tv in June? No, it would be out of place. Thus it is exempted into being considered a Christmas movie despite failing one of the criteria.
Die hard barely falls into category 1 and 2. But even if you made that argument, the violence, language, etc precludes it from category 3.
Sorry Die Hard as a Christmas movie fans, you are mistaken.
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This almost deserves it's own thread, as it must be discussed.
Die Hard is not a Christmas movie.
In order for a movie to be considered a "Christmas Movie" it must posses the following three qualities:
1. The setting must take place in or around the holidays and it must be significant to the plot that it is.
2. It must have a positive ending with an uplifting message or story conclusion. (It can be sad, but overall be positive. See: Family Stone)
3. It must be overall family friendly. (You can push boundaries with language or mild violence, ala Home alone or Christmas Vacation, but most parents know when it's gone too far)
Die hard barely falls into category 1 and 2. But even if you made that argument, the violence, language, etc precludes it from category 3.
Sorry Die Hard as a Christmas movie fans, you are mistaken.
Is bad Santa a Christmas movie then? I've never seen it but I know when it came out my parents barred me from seeing it.
Also glad this means I don't have to watch love actually this holiday as it officially not a Christmas movie!
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delete
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Is bad Santa a Christmas movie then? I've never seen it but I know when it came out my parents barred me from seeing it.
Also glad this means I don't have to watch love actually this holiday as it officially not a Christmas movie!
I have an exemption claus that I forgot to add. I'm editing it in now to explain movies like Bad Santa.
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Question, does some part of the movie, no matter the length have to occur in the movie for it to be considered a Christmas movie?
Benny's Standard Qualifications for Inclusion in the 'Christmas Movie' Genre:
1) The 'Chekhov's Gun' test: the Christmas element must advance the story and not be superfluous to the plot. In other words, if you removed the Christmas element, it would leave a hole in the plot.
2) Either The story's climax must unambiguously take place on Christmas/Christmas Eve.
3) The Christmas holiday is central to the plot. In other words, Christmas cannot be substituted with Hannukah, Kwanzaa, or a non-denominational holiday without changing the plot.
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Die Hard qualifies because if you take Christmas element out, a major plot hole opens in why the Nakatomi employees have gathered for a party at the building after hours on this particular night (which leads to them being taken hostage), but also (amongst other minor plot holes), it changes the significance as to why McClane has taken a trans-continental flight to attempt to reconcile with his wife on this particular day. Further, if you sub out Christmas, the viewer may get confused as to why a Japanese firm in Los Angeles is hosting a Hannukah party (on Dec 24th, no less).
Trading Places fails because while most of the movie takes place during the Christmas season, the final act clearly takes place after Jan 1. Further, while Mortimer and Randolph aren't exactly Herschel and Schlomo, it wouldn't be out of the question that Duke & Duke were throwing a Hanukkah party, even if it were crashed by Louis in a Santa outfit (frankly, he could be wearing any sort of disguise)... nevertheless, the Christmas party itself isn't exactly central to the plot, Louis could have sneaked into the office in the middle of the day dressed as a janitor and it still works (likewise, Ophelia didn't need to be distracted by tinsel from noticing Louis' OD, the checks could simply be EOY bonuses). Frankly, the central element here is the crop report, the timing of which was merely correlated to, not dependent upon, the timing of Christmas, i.e. it could have been a QI crop report, a mid-summer crop report, a harvest crop report, etc.
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All that being said, I just noticed that the image for Trading Places on my iTunes movie library is Louis (wearing the Santa outfit) and Billy Ray inside a snow globe. As such, I am reevaluating my criteria, and I will travel by train to DC on Dec 31 to deliver a report indicating what, if any, revisions will be made to the criteria.
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The honest trailer for that Rudolph movie cracks me up.
Just watched it for the first time - really well done.
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The honest trailer for that Rudolph movie cracks me up.
Are you picking on the dentists here? ;D He'll be a dentist some day, which is clearly code for gay, come here open your mouth.
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Benny's Standard Qualifications for Inclusion in the 'Christmas Movie' Genre:
1) The 'Chekhov's Gun' test: the Christmas element must advance the story and not be superfluous to the plot. In other words, if you removed the Christmas element, it would leave a hole in the plot.
2) Either The story's climax must unambiguously take place on Christmas/Christmas Eve.
3) The Christmas holiday is central to the plot. In other words, Christmas cannot be substituted with Hannukah, Kwanzaa, or a non-denominational holiday without changing the plot.
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Die Hard qualifies because if you take Christmas element out, a major plot hole opens in why the Nakatomi employees have gathered for a party at the building after hours on this particular night (which leads to them being taken hostage), but also (amongst other minor plot holes), it changes the significance as to why McClane has taken a trans-continental flight to attempt to reconcile with his wife on this particular day. Further, if you sub out Christmas, the viewer may get confused as to why a Japanese firm in Los Angeles is hosting a Hannukah party (on Dec 24th, no less).
Trading Places fails because while most of the movie takes place during the Christmas season, the final act clearly takes place after Jan 1. Further, while Mortimer and Randolph aren't exactly Herschel and Schlomo, it wouldn't be out of the question that Duke & Duke were throwing a Hanukkah party, even if it were crashed by Louis in a Santa outfit (frankly, he could be wearing any sort of disguise)... nevertheless, the Christmas party itself isn't exactly central to the plot, Louis could have sneaked into the office in the middle of the day dressed as a janitor and it still works (likewise, Ophelia didn't need to be distracted by tinsel from noticing Louis' OD, the checks could simply be EOY bonuses). Frankly, the central element here is the crop report, the timing of which was merely correlated to, not dependent upon, the timing of Christmas, i.e. it could have been a QI crop report, a mid-summer crop report, a harvest crop report, etc.
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All that being said, I just noticed that the image for Trading Places on my iTunes movie library is Louis (wearing the Santa outfit) and Billy Ray inside a snow globe. As such, I am reevaluating my criteria, and I will travel by train to DC on Dec 31 to deliver a report indicating what, if any, revisions will be made to the criteria.
I disagree.
If you take Christmas out, the employees could be having a party for signing a big client, or having a great quarter or something like that. It doesn't have to be a Christmas party. Stuff like that was not uncommon in the 80s, particularly with new and successful companies. John could easily have been visiting for a son or daughter's birthday coinciding with that party. Doesn't have to revolve around Christmas.
The only element to the story where Christmas is really referenced is when the Electrical worker didn't want to turn the power grid down to take power away from a large area on Christmas Eve. That was not central to the plot and it could have been "on the hottest night of the year" or "with the Dodgers playing" or anything like that.
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Benny's Standard Qualifications for Inclusion in the 'Christmas Movie' Genre:
1) The 'Chekhov's Gun' test: the Christmas element must advance the story and not be superfluous to the plot. In other words, if you removed the Christmas element, it would leave a hole in the plot.
2) Either The story's climax must unambiguously take place on Christmas/Christmas Eve.
3) The Christmas holiday is central to the plot. In other words, Christmas cannot be substituted with Hannukah, Kwanzaa, or a non-denominational holiday without changing the plot.
-------------
Die Hard qualifies because if you take Christmas element out, a major plot hole opens in why the Nakatomi employees have gathered for a party at the building after hours on this particular night (which leads to them being taken hostage), but also (amongst other minor plot holes), it changes the significance as to why McClane has taken a trans-continental flight to attempt to reconcile with his wife on this particular day. Further, if you sub out Christmas, the viewer may get confused as to why a Japanese firm in Los Angeles is hosting a Hannukah party (on Dec 24th, no less).
Trading Places fails because while most of the movie takes place during the Christmas season, the final act clearly takes place after Jan 1. Further, while Mortimer and Randolph aren't exactly Herschel and Schlomo, it wouldn't be out of the question that Duke & Duke were throwing a Hanukkah party, even if it were crashed by Louis in a Santa outfit (frankly, he could be wearing any sort of disguise)... nevertheless, the Christmas party itself isn't exactly central to the plot, Louis could have sneaked into the office in the middle of the day dressed as a janitor and it still works (likewise, Ophelia didn't need to be distracted by tinsel from noticing Louis' OD, the checks could simply be EOY bonuses). Frankly, the central element here is the crop report, the timing of which was merely correlated to, not dependent upon, the timing of Christmas, i.e. it could have been a QI crop report, a mid-summer crop report, a harvest crop report, etc.
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All that being said, I just noticed that the image for Trading Places on my iTunes movie library is Louis (wearing the Santa outfit) and Billy Ray inside a snow globe. As such, I am reevaluating my criteria, and I will travel by train to DC on Dec 31 to deliver a report indicating what, if any, revisions will be made to the criteria.
How dare you come up with your own criteria! Especially one that has fewer spelling and grammatical errors than mine. I may have to put you on ignore.
Either way, CTWarrior picked apart your Die Hard justification pretty solidly.
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The only element to the story where Christmas is really referenced is when the Electrical worker didn't want to turn the power grid down to take power away from a large area on Christmas Eve. That was not central to the plot and it could have been "on the hottest night of the year" or "with the Dodgers playing" or anything like that.
You're really stretching to disqualify the greatest Christmas movie of all time. The confluence of the party, the cross country travel, and the critical power grid (which is essential to the robbery plot) is that all of those things are centered around Christmas.
You are coming up with three new explanations for three different critical movie events that are all simply explained by "it's a Christmas movie".
I could just as easily say A Christmas Story isn't a Christmas movie because Ralphie could want the Red Rider BB gun for his birthday, they could be forced to go to a Chinese restaurant on any holiday that closes traditional businesses, and the parade they attend could be for the Fourth of July, but Christmas explains all three plot points more simply.
Just like Die Hard.
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Always bothered me that Die Hard messed up and had a Norte Dame/USC game being played on Christmas Eve.
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You're really stretching to disqualify the greatest Christmas movie of all time. The confluence of the party, the cross country travel, and the critical power grid (which is essential to the robbery plot) is that all of those things are centered around Christmas.
You are coming up with three new explanations for three different critical movie events that are all simply explained by "it's a Christmas movie".
I could just as easily say A Christmas Story isn't a Christmas movie because Ralphie could want the Red Rider BB gun for his birthday, they could be forced to go to a Chinese restaurant on any holiday that closes traditional businesses, and the parade they attend could be for the Fourth of July, but Christmas explains all three plot points more simply.
Just like Die Hard.
I don't ever remember a large company that had an office Christmas party on Christmas eve.
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I disagree.
If you take Christmas out, the employees could be having a party for signing a big client, or having a great quarter or something like that. It doesn't have to be a Christmas party. Stuff like that was not uncommon in the 80s, particularly with new and successful companies. John could easily have been visiting for a son or daughter's birthday coinciding with that party. Doesn't have to revolve around Christmas.
The only element to the story where Christmas is really referenced is when the Electrical worker didn't want to turn the power grid down to take power away from a large area on Christmas Eve. That was not central to the plot and it could have been "on the hottest night of the year" or "with the Dodgers playing" or anything like that.
I mean you could do that with any Christmas movie....you could turn Home Alone into a 4th of July movie by that rule set.
Other core elements of Die Hard plot that tie to Christmas specifically are:
-Mclain uses Christmas tape to tape the handgun to his back
-The Ho Ho Ho message on the dead bad guy
-The line "It's Christmas, it's a time of miracles" is pretty memorable and if you change the holiday I have no idea how you'd restructure that.
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I don't ever remember a large company that had an office Christmas party on Christmas eve.
Well they were a Japanese company.
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The honest trailer for that Rudolph movie cracks me up.
That was excellent
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I disagree.
If you take Christmas out, the employees could be having a party for signing a big client, or having a great quarter or something like that. It doesn't have to be a Christmas party. Stuff like that was not uncommon in the 80s, particularly with new and successful companies. John could easily have been visiting for a son or daughter's birthday coinciding with that party. Doesn't have to revolve around Christmas.
The only element to the story where Christmas is really referenced is when the Electrical worker didn't want to turn the power grid down to take power away from a large area on Christmas Eve. That was not central to the plot and it could have been "on the hottest night of the year" or "with the Dodgers playing" or anything like that.
https://ew.com/article/2015/12/24/die-hard-christmas-movie/
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(https://cdn.extra.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/20142900/Die-Hard-Christmas-Feature-1068x623.jpg)
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Look, I get it. It's fun to say Die Hard is a Christmas movie. The reactions it gets is entertaining. But all the reasons given above hold no water. All of those elements could be removed and the movie would be exactly the same movie. Any attempt to explain otherwise is just twisting facts to fit your narrative.
Besides, even Bruce Willis said it isn't a Christmas movie.
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Look, I get it. It's fun to say Die Hard is a Christmas movie. The reactions it gets is entertaining. But all the reasons given above hold no water. All of those elements could be removed and the movie would be exactly the same movie. Any attempt to explain otherwise is just twisting facts to fit your narrative.
Besides, even Bruce Willis said it isn't a Christmas movie.
Yeah, not that simple.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2018/07/16/is-die-hard-a-christmas-movie-bruce-willis-finally-has-an-answer/
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I disagree.
If you take Christmas out, the employees could be having a party for signing a big client, or having a great quarter or something like that. It doesn't have to be a Christmas party. Stuff like that was not uncommon in the 80s, particularly with new and successful companies. John could easily have been visiting for a son or daughter's birthday coinciding with that party. Doesn't have to revolve around Christmas.
The only element to the story where Christmas is really referenced is when the Electrical worker didn't want to turn the power grid down to take power away from a large area on Christmas Eve. That was not central to the plot and it could have been "on the hottest night of the year" or "with the Dodgers playing" or anything like that.
Ok, I’m no literature or drama major (after all, I do have a job, haha), but I’m pretty sure you’ve materially altered the plot simply by changing the setting (time of year).
in any event, you’ve gone complete Back to the Future with your storyline... it only works if you keep things mostly intact like Avengers: Endgame.
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Look, I get it. It's fun to say Die Hard is a Christmas movie. The reactions it gets is entertaining. But all the reasons given above hold no water. All of those elements could be removed and the movie would be exactly the same movie. Any attempt to explain otherwise is just twisting facts to fit your narrative.
Besides, even Bruce Willis said it isn't a Christmas movie.
On December 24, 2017, Die Hard screenwriter Steven E. de Souza stated on Twitter that Die Hard is a Christmas film.
(https://www.washingtonpost.com/resizer/xsGpbATTnL_lnlR2BAbhjhrCrn0=/568x0/arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/CBD37KSVZM57DPAO4HTYV3PXGU.jpg)
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Look, I get it. It's fun to say Die Hard is a Christmas movie. The reactions it gets is entertaining. But all the reasons given above hold no water. All of those elements could be removed and the movie would be exactly the same movie. Any attempt to explain otherwise is just twisting facts to fit your narrative.
Besides, even Bruce Willis said it isn't a Christmas movie.
All of the elements could be removed or replaced but that is then a substantially a different movie. Could you rewrite the movie so it is set at a whole other time and it still does the same thing, sure but you could say that about 95% of the Christmas movies.
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Would someone mind telling us what month of the year Die Hard was released? Then please tell me what other Christmas movie was released in that month.
Die Hard is a summer blockbuster action flick that happens to be set during Christmas time.
The arguments that changing the setting from a Christmas party to some other sort of party somehow changes the plot are absurd. Plenty of reasons to change why families are there and they can't take down the power grid. Does anyone really think taking down the power grid can't be done just because it's Christmas? Come on...
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Would someone mind telling us what month of the year Die Hard was released? Then please tell me what other Christmas movie was released in that month.
Die Hard is a summer blockbuster action flick that happens to be set during Christmas time.
The arguments that changing the setting from a Christmas party to some other sort of party somehow changes the plot are absurd. Plenty of reasons to change why families are there and they can't take down the power grid. Does anyone really think taking down the power grid can't be done just because it's Christmas? Come on...
So the actual screenwriter said it's a Christmas movie and you still disagree?
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So the actual screenwriter said it's a Christmas movie and you still disagree?
If you look at his stuff, the writer is a contrarian who hates the standard Christmas movie trope. Plus, all he did was adapt the story from the original book, that was definitely not a Christmas book. He's hardly any more an authority than Bruce Willis who clearly stated it is not a Christmas movie.
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A movie that takes place during Christmas isn't necessarily a "Christmas Movie." But it's kind of a silly debate.
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They consistently play the Harry Potter movies this time of year on Christmas movie marathons. Those are not Christmas movies, there just happens to be a scene in each. So apparently the standard for being a Christmas movie is low for TV
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What if... a Christmas movie is any movie you seek out and enjoy around the Christmas season, for whatever reason you choose? I know people who put on 'The Godfather' on Christmas, so for them, it's a Christmas movie. You want to call 'Harry Potter' a Christmas movie? Sure! 'Mean Girls'? Go ahead! 'Edward Scissorhands'? Why not!
For the record: I think 'Die Hard' qualifies, but if someone disagrees I won't try to talk them into it.
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I just really wanted to take part in a Scoop style argument. I always feel left out since I generally don't like to engage in the overly negative BB related ones. I think this one was perfect! ::)
But Die Hard is still not a Christmas movie!
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Anything on the Hallmark Channel right now.
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What if... a Christmas movie is any movie you seek out and enjoy around the Christmas season, for whatever reason you choose?
In that case, Ziggy thinks everything on Pornhub is a Christmas movie.
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Would someone mind telling us what month of the year Die Hard was released? Then please tell me what other Christmas movie was released in that month.
Die Hard is a summer blockbuster action flick that happens to be set during Christmas time.
I also don't think of Die Hard as a Christmas movie, and I think the above explains why. It's a summer blockbuster action movie that happens to be set at Christmas. But these things are somewhat subjective, and when discussing whether something is or is not a "Christmas Movie" I'll simply invoke the wisdom of Potter Stewart: "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description, and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that."
My personal opinion is that this whole debate probably started with someone jokingly answering "Die Hard" when asked to name a favorite Christmas movie and then it took on a life of its own.
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In that case, Ziggy thinks everything on Pornhub is a Christmas movie.
If Nads' neighbor hung a bunch of porn DVDs on his front tree, would that make them Christmas ornaments?
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Anything on the Hallmark Channel right now.
For best or worst?
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I just really wanted to take part in a Scoop style argument. I always feel left out since I generally don't like to engage in the overly negative BB related ones. I think this one was perfect! ::)
But Die Hard is still not a Christmas movie!
I, too, hold the opinion that if it is a Christmas movie to you good enough and I don't ultimately care. But I'm also a devil's advocate at my core so I'll give you the Scoop fight you crave ;)
If the argument is you can extract the Christmas content from Die Hard and you have essentially the same movie, that's true. But I can do the same thing with National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation, you know how I know.....we have National Lampoon's European Vacation. You can extract the Christmas content from Home Alone and you have a home invasion comedy that is for any time. Basically the only Christmas movies you can't extract the Christmas content is those were Santa and/or his helpers are involved like The Santa Clause or Elf.
Your whole argument is predicated on extracting content but not too much content because then a lot of movies aren't Christmas movies.....unless you can come up with a measurable metric for the amount of Christmas content to be embedded I don't believe anything you say
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For best or worst?
Depends. Are you in the mood for repetitive tripe or not? Many scoopers post history indicates they love to write the same things over and over again. So they might find it appealing.
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Anything on the Hallmark Channel right now.
Hallmark channel is one of my many channels I deal with. True story...their rep is a woman named...HOLLY. She’s super cool, but always cracks me up. We did a Ronald McDonald benefit with her on Wednesday...good partners.
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Would someone mind telling us what month of the year Die Hard was released? Then please tell me what other Christmas movie was released in that month.
Die Hard is a summer blockbuster action flick that happens to be set during Christmas time.
The arguments that changing the setting from a Christmas party to some other sort of party somehow changes the plot are absurd. Plenty of reasons to change why families are there and they can't take down the power grid. Does anyone really think taking down the power grid can't be done just because it's Christmas? Come on...
Why cannot be both?
Holiday Inn was released in August
Christmas in Connecticut released in August
Miracle on 34th street released in June
Christmas Holiday in June
Etc etc
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Which do you prefer: Home Alone or Home Alone 2?
I say the first one.
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Which do you prefer: Home Alone or Home Alone 2?
I say the first one.
Home Alone 2 had the Talkboy, gives it an edge IMO.
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Which do you prefer: Home Alone or Home Alone 2?
I say the first one.
The original and it's not that close.
(https://66.media.tumblr.com/c27807f4f0e815f921a77ace3fd49b48/tumblr_oiyrlcG8mD1rm4mpho1_1280.jpg)
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Maybe I missed it being mentioned, but Gremlins is a great Christmas movie.
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Maybe I missed it being mentioned, but Gremlins is a great Christmas movie.
Yup. Also released in Summer.
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Home Alone 2 had the Talkboy, gives it an edge IMO.
Howdy-do. This is Peter McCallister, the father.
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(https://i.imgur.com/ZLm3yu6.jpg)
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Just watched The REF and it is a hilarious Christmas movie. A burglar takes a bickering couple hostage on Christmas Eve.
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The Ref. So funny and great cast. Nod to the original Grinch and Charlie Brown Christmas as classics.
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Home Alone 1 and 2 are great. 1 is superior imo.
Also, I think Home Alone 3 is not in the same realm as 1 and 2. 3 doesn’t feel like a Christmas movie either
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Home Alone 1 is best. John Candy / South Bend Shovel Slayer > Tim Curry / Pigeon lady.
That said, Home Alone 2 has been growing on me in recent years. It is still a great film and a worthy sequel.
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Great Netflix series "The Movies That Made Us" is worth a checking out. Only four episodes out but Home Alone and Die Hard are two of them. Fun behind the scenes look at how the movies were made.
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Home Alone 1 is best. John Candy / South Bend Shovel Slayer > Tim Curry / Pigeon lady.
That said, Home Alone 2 has been growing on me in recent years. It is still a great film and a worthy sequel.
This. Honestly the whole incompetent hotel staff thing seems a bit too forced for me personally and doesn't add much humor. It's still a good movie though.
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This. Honestly the whole incompetent hotel staff thing seems a bit too forced for me personally and doesn't add much humor. It's still a good movie though.
I'm not with you there, I think it was fine generally. My big issue with HA2 especially when I was younger was the "realism" of the traps he set. I mean the bad guys would have died at least 6 times if it were the real world. As I've gotten older, I definitely care less but it's still in my brain a little bit.
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The best Christmas movie is actually a Thanksgiving Movie: “Planes Trains and Automobiles”
Of course Die Hard is a Christmas movie. As the story goes below (Jake Tapper):
'Twas the night before Christmas
At Nakatomi Tower
When our story of homecoming
Begins with brute power.
At Los Angeles airport, meet our savior, McClaine;
With toys for his kids, he disembarks from his plane.
To not see that this tale's about Christmas is folly;
Did I mention that Mrs. McClane's name is Holly?
"How 'bout some Christmas music?" McClane asks of Argyle.
"That *is* Christmas music," the driver says with a smile.
To reunite with Holly, his aim is shared with shy laughter;
T'would be a holiday miracle to last ever after.
"You throw quite party," says John to Tagaki-San.
"I didn't know they Christmas in Japan."
John is weary from travel; Holly offers a bed.
While down in the lobby, the guard's shot in the head.
In Theo! In Kyle! In Tony, Ed, Fritz!
Into the party the armed thugs run a blitz.
(Argyle still waits; this is long before Uber.)
While havoc is wreaked by the evil Hans Gruber.
John McClane, he escapes. Saves the day - he's just gotta;
Without shoes he tracks blood as if bearing wounds of stigmata;
One thug tries to kill him but that German's too slow; Now John McClane has a machine gun. HO-HO-HO.
Sgt. Al Powell is told of disturbance;
In response the fake guard feigns a bit of perturbance.
Does he hear anything? The answer is no.
Except for the song, "LET IT SNOW, LET IT SNOW."
"Merry Christmas," says Powell, not realizing the peril;
Driving off while he sings a beloved Christmas carol.
A corpse falls from above with a clear rationale;
McClane says to the cop, "Welcome to the party, pal."
Gruber talks to McClane, or rather he sneers,
Survival would be a miracle, he plays on his fears.
The policeman is bloodied and in dire need of succor.
"Yipee-ki-yea," McClane says, "mother-f--cker."
A woman hostage with child in of its glory
Is also a part of our Christmas Eve story
With Johnny McC traveling great distance
With hope and with love of fighting evil resistance.
Theo, a wise man, who's also quite naughty
Is stealing the money in spirit quite haughty
Ellis, the Judas, attempts an amenity
By disclosing the cowboy's secret identity.
McClane gets a bad feeling and asks Sgt. Powell
To relay to his wife a redemptive avowal.
"When things panned out for her, I should've been behind her all the way,"
He says this thinking he'll never see the light of day.
"I got it," says the sergeant," but you can tell her yourself."
In a scene that's as seasonal as a reindeer or elf.
"I hope so, but that's up to the guy upstairs," says McClane
Who's traveled far for peace but encountered only pain.
If Christmas is love, rebirth, and a savior
McClane was all of the above in his 'Die Hard' behavior.
God was truly with him, the success was empirical
At Nakatomi they experienced a miracle.
That Die Hard is a Christmas film seems to me just a fact
I declare this without any tact
But whether you agree or your disapproval won't cease
I wish you a season of love and of peace.
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Home Alone 1 is best. John Candy / South Bend Shovel Slayer > Tim Curry / Pigeon lady.
That said, Home Alone 2 has been growing on me in recent years. It is still a great film and a worthy sequel.
I miss John Candy.
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Showing my kids the ORD-H/K Hallway scene to my kids has paid dividends when we travel. The rest of the movie is forgettable.
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I miss John Candy.
Me too. BTW, this is a great read, if anyone is interested. Currently about halfway through. Candy isn't on the cover but they spend plenty of time talking about him too.
https://www.amazon.com/Wild-Crazy-Guys-Mavericks-Hollywood/dp/1984826646
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Just saw Gremlins included in a montage of Christmas movies run by AMC.
Your move, anti-Gremlins-as-Christmas-movie crowd.
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I miss John Candy.
1994, my senior year of HS I spent a week volunteering in a village in the Yucatan. I come back to the US, having not seen a TV or newspaper the entire time, and learned John Candy had died while I was gone. A true legend taken too soon.
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Why are the Harry Potter movies always played at Christmas? They have a brief Christmas or winter scene and that's it.
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Why are the Harry Potter movies always played at Christmas? They have a brief Christmas or winter scene and that's it.
Assuming normal times, my guess is that it is more a function of all the kids being on Christmas break and having a lot of time to watch movies. Easy way to use up many hours of programming time.
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1994, my senior year of HS I spent a week volunteering in a village in the Yucatan. I come back to the US, having not seen a TV or newspaper the entire time, and learned John Candy had died while I was gone. A true legend taken too soon.
Not only was Candy an absolute phenom who died far too early, he was a great friend and collaborator of John Hughes. Candy’s death is one of the primary reasons Hughes took large step back from the industry. He never directed again after Candy’s death until his own far too premature death 15 years later.
Candy was in advanced talks to play Ignatius Reilly in A Confederacy of Dunces which also stings as it’s one of my all time favorite books. Given Candy’s participation, I would have had higher expectations than another of my favorite books that was adapted in that general time, Bonfire of the Vanities, which is an incredible book but an absolute mess of movie
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Not only was Candy an absolute phenom who died far too early, he was a great friend and collaborator of John Hughes. Candy’s death is one of the primary reasons Hughes took large step back from the industry. He never directed again after Candy’s death until his own far too premature death 15 years later.
Candy was in advanced talks to play Ignatius Reilly in A Confederacy of Dunces which also stings as it’s one of my all time favorite books. Given Candy’s participation, I would have had higher expectations than another of my favorite books that was adapted in that general time, Bonfire of the Vanities, which is an incredible book but an absolute mess of movie
So was John Belushi. And Chris Farley.
As a matter of fact, there seems to be a curse on this movie, as proposed leads keep dying:
https://www.vulture.com/2013/03/8-actors-who-came-close-to-starring-in-a-confederacy-of-dunces.html
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Why are the Harry Potter movies always played at Christmas? They have a brief Christmas or winter scene and that's it.
They are played frequently year round.
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I also don't think of Die Hard as a Christmas movie, and I think the above explains why. It's a summer blockbuster action movie that happens to be set at Christmas. But these things are somewhat subjective, and when discussing whether something is or is not a "Christmas Movie" I'll simply invoke the wisdom of Potter Stewart: "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description, and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that."
My personal opinion is that this whole debate probably started with someone jokingly answering "Die Hard" when asked to name a favorite Christmas movie and then it took on a life of its own.
Miracle on 34th Street was released to theatres in May 1947.
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Trading Places and Gremlins also came out in June.
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Why are the Harry Potter movies always played at Christmas? They have a brief Christmas or winter scene and that's it.
Aren't the Harry Potter always played, period?
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Josh Gates interviewed Reginald VelJohnson, a.k.a. Sgt Powell, last week who said he always considered Die Hard a Christmas movie.
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Bump
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Home Alones, Santa Clause 1, and Elf.
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Home Alones, Santa Clause 1, and Elf.
hoping this is a best list not worst...
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I miss John Candy.
Everytime I have a hot dog: "Do you know what this is made of? Lips and a**holes."
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hoping this is a best list not worst...
Sorry, yes. That's my best.
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Sorry, yes. That's my best.
How can you rate the Home Alone movies together as a group?
The original was great, the second one was okay. The rest were crap.
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How can you rate the Home Alone movies together as a group?
The original was great, the second one was okay. The rest were crap.
I'm not sure I knew there were more than two. So Home Alones 1 and 2 are on my list.
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Anything on Hallmark. I don't care that it is the exact same movie every time, I mist up every time.
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Anything on Hallmark. I don't care that it is the exact same movie every time, I mist up every time.
I saw one with a different plot last night.
Cynical single woman from the big city who is too busy with her career for love visits her small hometown for Christmas. She meets a nice guy with an adorable dog. Romance ensues. Just as they kiss, it starts to snow. The End
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I saw one with a different plot last night.
Cynical single woman from the big city who is too busy with her career for love visits her small hometown for Christmas. She meets a nice guy with an adorable dog. Romance ensues. Just as they kiss, it starts to snow. The End
Don't forget white privileged.
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Don't forget white privileged.
Well, that pretty much goes without saying.
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Anything on Hallmark. I don't care that it is the exact same movie every time, I mist up every time.
My wife and I have started putting these on just to roast them. I was wondering if I'd ever accidentally see enough of them that I would start to unironically like them, but I am now confident that will never happen. They're so, so bad
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Anything on Hallmark. I don't care that it is the exact same movie every time, I mist up every time.
They've been filming a bunch of the Hallmark movies in Connecticut the last year or so.
There was something today about "Where to visit Hallmark film sites in Connecticut."
https://www.courant.com/ctnow/arts-theater/hc-ctnow-connecticut-christmas-movies-20211102-v6wvtmqlyzhohbvh4vlnll4hky-story.html
https://www.ctvisit.com/articles/christmas-movies-filmed-connecticut
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I saw one with a different plot last night.
Cynical single woman from the big city who is too busy with her career for love visits her small hometown for Christmas. She meets a nice guy with an adorable dog. Romance ensues. Just as they kiss, it starts to snow. The End
There has to be some sort of dilemma there, too. Her employer contacts her and desperately needs her back in the big city to handle a crisis and offers her a big promotion in the new year. Then she is so torn regarding whether to stay or go. Love always wins.
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There must be a market. They sure make enough of them.
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My favorite would be “The Ref”. The cast led by Denis Leary is great.
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Elf is my favorite Christmas Movie
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p-IjAhDyyE4&vl=en
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Has anyone watched a lot of the newer Netflix Christmas movies? They seem to be extremely hot or miss but there's definitely some gems on there!