MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Herman Cain on November 14, 2019, 11:18:59 AM

Title: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Herman Cain on November 14, 2019, 11:18:59 AM
I have been pointing out during the off season that MU will be more athletic and have better team chemistry. With the net result a very strong year being possible.

Last night we saw the first  example of how that team descriptive scenario played out. Our guys worked hard , clawed and scratched their way after every lose ball. They used their strength, length  and pogo sticking ability well.  It was nice to see them not lose out on account of physicality against a team with a lot of that going for it.

We also saw the guys looking for the open man and moving the ball. The more collaborative attitude produced clean looks and open lanes. That kind of team first attitude is what is needed to help build confidence and compete successfully at the higher levels. It tends to feed on itself as well, as it is actually more fun for the guys to play when they are getting the highest and best use out of their skills.   

Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: tower912 on November 14, 2019, 11:28:47 AM
I think the Hausers are very talented players, great shooters.     Not great on ball defenders.    Not great at creating their own shot.     Last year, during the tailspin, what was the common denominator of all the teams that beat MU down the stretch?    Big guards who attacked off the dribble.    Due to injuries and the make up of that team, MU did not have defensive options.      In the Murray State game, Sam was shut down by a 6'4 defender who spent all the time that mattered in that game up under his chin, knowing Sam could not go by him.   
    I am not certain both Hausers would have started if they had stayed and nobody else (Sacar grad transfer) left.     Having guards with size makes a team so much more versatile.    A muscular, quick 6'4 player can guard 4 positions.    A slow 6'9 player cannot.      If the 6'4 player can dribble and shoot, he can play 4 positions on offense.    It goes back to switchables.     A switchable is a big guard who can play and defend multiple positions.   Yes, you want PG's and post players, but you have to have versatile wings, too.   
   I am more optimistic about this team than I was a year ago after Greg got hurt.   I think his absence cost MU on many levels, in ways that show up on stat sheets and ways that don't.    Look how he  impacted the game yesterday putting up modest numbers.      If Symir is able to come up to speed in the next few weeks, this will truly be a deep, dynamic, versatile team that is actually set up better to make a tournament run than last year.   Assuming health.   
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: BrewCity83 on November 14, 2019, 11:32:52 AM
They used their strength, length  and pogo sticking ability well. 

We also have a team with great necks.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: #UnleashSean on November 14, 2019, 11:39:21 AM
We also have a team with great necks.

*excellent
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on November 14, 2019, 11:46:44 AM
I think the Hausers are very talented players, great shooters.     Not great on ball defenders.    Not great at creating their own shot.     Last year, during the tailspin, what was the common denominator of all the teams that beat MU down the stretch?    Big guards who attacked off the dribble.    Due to injuries and the make up of that team, MU did not have defensive options.      In the Murray State game, Sam was shut down by a 6'4 defender who spent all the time that mattered in that game up under his chin, knowing Sam could not go by him.   
    I am not certain both Hausers would have started if they had stayed and nobody else (Sacar grad transfer) left.     Having guards with size makes a team so much more versatile.    A muscular, quick 6'4 player can guard 4 positions.    A slow 6'9 player cannot.      If the 6'4 player can dribble and shoot, he can play 4 positions on offense.    It goes back to switchables.     A switchable is a big guard who can play and defend multiple positions.   Yes, you want PG's and post players, but you have to have versatile wings, too.   
   I am more optimistic about this team than I was a year ago after Greg got hurt.   I think his absence cost MU on many levels, in ways that show up on stat sheets and ways that don't.    Look how he  impacted the game yesterday putting up modest numbers.      If Symir is able to come up to speed in the next few weeks, this will truly be a deep, dynamic, versatile team that is actually set up better to make a tournament run than last year.   Assuming health.

Mu is a completely different team last year with Greg Elliott. Potentially agreat team.  He does everything Chartouney was incapable of. 
Probably lose last night with the Hausers, especially in the second half MU thwarted virtually every Purdue drive with strength, length, quickness and size.  Who on the Purdue roster could Sam or Joey have guarded without looking like a turnstile? I say no one!
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Jockey on November 14, 2019, 04:39:25 PM
 
   I am more optimistic about this team than I was a year ago after Greg got hurt.   I think his absence cost MU on many levels, in ways that show up on stat sheets and ways that don't.    Look how he  impacted the game yesterday putting up modest numbers.

Funny how a skinny 6'3" guard is the junkyard dog of this team.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: seakm4 on November 14, 2019, 09:30:32 PM
*excellent

*neckcellent
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on November 14, 2019, 09:34:23 PM
Funny how a skinny 6'3" guard is the junkyard dog of this team.

He should also probably be the last person on this team to flex, but here we are.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: onepost on November 14, 2019, 09:47:03 PM
Any team without Sam Hauser is a worse team, don't care what anyone says.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on November 14, 2019, 10:48:52 PM
*excellent

*solid
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on November 14, 2019, 10:51:25 PM
Any team without Sam Hauser is a worse team, don't care what anyone says.

Loser
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: MU82 on November 14, 2019, 11:00:02 PM
I think the Hausers are very talented players, great shooters.     Not great on ball defenders.    Not great at creating their own shot.     Last year, during the tailspin, what was the common denominator of all the teams that beat MU down the stretch?    Big guards who attacked off the dribble.    Due to injuries and the make up of that team, MU did not have defensive options.      In the Murray State game, Sam was shut down by a 6'4 defender who spent all the time that mattered in that game up under his chin, knowing Sam could not go by him.   
    I am not certain both Hausers would have started if they had stayed and nobody else (Sacar grad transfer) left.     Having guards with size makes a team so much more versatile.    A muscular, quick 6'4 player can guard 4 positions.    A slow 6'9 player cannot.      If the 6'4 player can dribble and shoot, he can play 4 positions on offense.    It goes back to switchables.     A switchable is a big guard who can play and defend multiple positions.   Yes, you want PG's and post players, but you have to have versatile wings, too.   
   I am more optimistic about this team than I was a year ago after Greg got hurt.   I think his absence cost MU on many levels, in ways that show up on stat sheets and ways that don't.    Look how he  impacted the game yesterday putting up modest numbers.      If Symir is able to come up to speed in the next few weeks, this will truly be a deep, dynamic, versatile team that is actually set up better to make a tournament run than last year.   Assuming health.

Although I agree with most of this, I do think Sam would have started for this team and been very good for it. Joey I'm less sure about. Defensively, it hurt the team to have both Hausers on the floor together for long stretches.

If Sam took the first-half shots that those not named Markus took last night, maybe we're not down 13 at halftime.

As you know, I am not one of this board's Hauser apologists. I believe they were at least as much to blame for Hausershima as Wojo was, and I think Joey was a big baby. I just happen to think Sam was/is a very good college basketball player, one who would have helped this year's team in many, many ways.

But yes, I am excited about the potential of this season's team. Here's hoping that potential gets fully realized.

It's fun that we're even talking about a team with great potential given that halfway through our first real game, numerous Scoopers were calling Marquette the worst team in the history of mankind.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Charley Farley on November 14, 2019, 11:59:49 PM
Any team without Sam Hauser is a worse team, don't care what anyone says.

Sam is an excellent basketball player and it is disappointing he left.  They are a less talented team without him.  Whether they are a worse team is still to be determined.   Team chemistry can help teams transcend their talents.  We’ll see what happens with this team but so far they seem very close and willing to sacrifice for each other.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: MUHoopsFan2 on November 15, 2019, 12:33:10 AM
Sam is an excellent basketball player and it is disappointing he left.  They are a less talented team without him.  Whether they are a worse team is still to be determined.   Team chemistry can help teams transcend their talents.  We’ll see what happens with this team but so far they seem very close and willing to sacrifice for each other.
Excellent points Charley. I concur...
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: MUHoopsFan2 on November 15, 2019, 12:40:00 AM
Any team without Sam Hauser is a worse team, don't care what anyone says.
...Yeah too bad he thought so too, and left. Moving on.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: brewcity77 on November 15, 2019, 06:22:59 AM
Any team without Sam Hauser is a worse team, don't care what anyone says.

They can be worse than they would've been with him, but that doesn't mean they aren't better than they were a year ago. Adding Koby, Greg, & Jayce is potentially a lot of positive pieces.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: tower912 on November 15, 2019, 07:10:40 AM
MU82, I wasn't clear.   I think the starting lineup would have been Theo, Koby, Sacar, Markus, Hauser.   I think the Hausers would have been competing with each other for minutes.   I think this would be a better team if they had stayed.   But I think it will still be a good team without them.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Nukem2 on November 15, 2019, 07:41:30 AM
MU82, I wasn't clear.   I think the starting lineup would have been Theo, Koby, Sacar, Markus, Hauser.   I think the Hausers would have been competing with each other for minutes.   I think this would be a better team if they had stayed.   But I think it will still be a good team without them.
Their minutes may have gone down, but the Hausers would have both started.  No doubt about that.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: MU82 on November 15, 2019, 07:48:25 AM
MU82, I wasn't clear.   I think the starting lineup would have been Theo, Koby, Sacar, Markus, Hauser.   I think the Hausers would have been competing with each other for minutes.   I think this would be a better team if they had stayed.   But I think it will still be a good team without them.

Fair.

Sam is an excellent basketball player and it is disappointing he left.  They are a less talented team without him.  Whether they are a worse team is still to be determined.   Team chemistry can help teams transcend their talents.  We’ll see what happens with this team but so far they seem very close and willing to sacrifice for each other.

Also fair.

"Chemistry" is one of those overused, undefinable words, but there have been many cases of teams that got along well, played for each other and executed their roles well turned out to be more than might have been expected were one to have merely taken a sum of their parts.

Last year's Virginia team was an excellent example. A very good team, to be sure, but almost certainly less talented than several others.

So yes, a few months from now, we might be able to say: "Although the Warriors might have been more talented had the Hausers not quit our program, our team turned out to be better without them."

Here's hoping that is exactly what we're saying!
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: TheREALwrk on November 15, 2019, 07:48:51 AM
They can be worse than they would've been with him, but that doesn't mean they aren't better than they were a year ago. Adding Koby, Greg, & Jayce is potentially a lot of positive pieces.

Great point. Onepost is a Hauser Stan though.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: BubbaWilliams on November 15, 2019, 08:11:04 AM
I like to imagine the boys in the locker room after the game yelling, "@$#& the Hauser sisters!" I know they're classier than that, but I'm not.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: MU82 on November 15, 2019, 08:11:20 AM
9-9-9 is in the anti-Wojo camp. I do hope he realizes that one reason teams develop chemistry is because the head coach creates an environment for good chemistry.

Just as Wojo deserves a heaping helping of blame for the poor chemistry by last year's Lettermen & Co., he would deserve a large slice of credit if this team ends up having a winning chemistry.

There ... did I use the word "chemistry" enough in those 2 paragraphs?
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: JakeBarnes on November 15, 2019, 08:13:43 AM
I like to imagine the boys in the locker room after the game yelling, "@$#& the Hauser sisters!" I know they're classier than that, but I'm not.

Why?

This post...not who we are. Cmon now
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Lennys Tap on November 15, 2019, 08:33:07 AM
Why?

This post...not who we are. Cmon now

???

Bubba's post is precisely who a few of our posters are.

And not all that far from many, many more who feel the same but don't express it quite as crudely.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: BubbaWilliams on November 15, 2019, 08:35:44 AM
???

Bubba's post is precisely who a few of our posters are.

And not all that far from many, many more who feel the same but don't express it quite as crudely.
You're ignorant if you don't think this team resents them and uses their leaving as an excuse to fuel the fire.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: swoopem on November 15, 2019, 08:43:26 AM
You're ignorant if you don't think this team resents them and uses their leaving as an excuse to fuel the fire.

That’s probably very true
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: MU82 on November 15, 2019, 09:09:21 AM
You're ignorant if you don't think this team resents them and uses their leaving as an excuse to fuel the fire.

I like to believe that Marquette players, while preparing for games or playing in games, give absolutely no thought to two people who have nothing to do with their team and who aren't even part of teams that they play against.

I mean, when Elliott made that dish to Theo, was he really thinking: "Take that, Joey!"? When Markus hugged Koby at the end of the game, did he say: "I'm sure glad we have you instead of Sam!"?
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Lennys Tap on November 15, 2019, 09:13:04 AM
You're ignorant if you don't think this team resents them and uses their leaving as an excuse to fuel the fire.

You plead guilty to being classless and then call someone else ignorant. I'll consider the source and have a good laugh.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: BrewCity83 on November 15, 2019, 09:13:51 AM
I like to believe that Marquette players, while preparing for games or playing in games, give absolutely no thought to two people who have nothing to do with their team and who aren't even part of teams that they play against.

I mean, when Elliott made that dish to Theo, was he really thinking: "Take that, Joey!"? When Markus hugged Koby at the end of the game, did he say: "I'm sure glad we have you instead of Sam!"?

I'm sure it's not in the front of their minds during the games, but I'd bet that it's come up with the guys that were on last year's team at least a few times over the summer.  Those things do help the surviving members of "an attempted coup" bond and move forward.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: tower912 on November 15, 2019, 09:29:55 AM
I'm sure it's not in the front of their minds during the games, but I'd bet that it's come up with the guys that were on last year's team at least a few times over the summer.  Those things do help the surviving members of "an attempted coup" bond and move forward.
Agreed.  It was likely a rallying point for off-season workouts.  Now just an old, fading bruise with far more important things to worry about.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: onepost on November 15, 2019, 09:43:34 AM
Loser

The irony....
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Pakuni on November 15, 2019, 09:50:44 AM
I guarantee that the Hausers obsess a lot less about Marquette than some Marquette fans obsess about the Hausers (and that goes for both sides of this dumb discussion).
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: onepost on November 15, 2019, 09:51:10 AM
They can be worse than they would've been with him, but that doesn't mean they aren't better than they were a year ago. Adding Koby, Greg, & Jayce is potentially a lot of positive pieces.

Absolutely.  I'm not gonna extrapolate an entire season out of one good half of basketball against a middle-of-the-road Purdue team, but I was encouraged by the resolve the guys showed.  The defense looks to be tough but very worried we don't have nearly enough offense.

It remains to be seen if Koby, Greg, Jayce > Sam, Joey; I hope that's the case.  All I'm saying is this board is kidding themselves if they think we're better off without Sam Hauser on this team.  Then again with all the idiots who frequent Scoop, that's probably common thought.  Guy was likely a First Team All-Big East player and was on pace to be an all-timer at Marquette.  Resulting "resentment" cause they left and perceived "chemistry" when 2 guys have usage rates above 25% doesn't make up for that.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: BCHoopster on November 15, 2019, 09:55:31 AM
Sam would make this a Top 10 team,  take out Bailey and add 15 and 8, good teams have 3 scorers, Sam, Koby and Markus would have been
outstanding.  Add Anim and Theo, both look improved and you would have a hell of a team.  You would give a little away on the D, better that
way, but teams would have a hard time stopping them.  To bad Joey ruined that.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: mug644 on November 15, 2019, 10:12:45 AM
I guarantee that the Hausers obsess a lot less about Marquette than some Marquette fans obsess about the Hausers (and that goes for both sides of this dumb discussion).

I agree with that.

And I will speculate that the Hausers think more about the current MU team than the current MU team thinks about the Hausers. MU is playing real games, and their attention is likely focused, while the Hausers are sitting out. They are with and engaged with MSU and UVa, no doubt, but they probably have more time to reflect on what was and what might have been. I’d say that’s human nature, and I would begrudge them for that.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: onepost on November 15, 2019, 10:22:15 AM
Great point. Onepost is a Hauser Stan though.

Really dumb comment here.
Fine, I admit it, I'm a fan of great basketball players who represent my university well.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: BubbaWilliams on November 15, 2019, 10:24:00 AM
I'm sure it's not in the front of their minds during the games, but I'd bet that it's come up with the guys that were on last year's team at least a few times over the summer.  Those things do help the surviving members of "an attempted coup" bond and move forward.
You said it much better than I did, thank you. I'm not going to pretend that it wasn't an ugly breakup, and that the guys from last year are ok with it.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Markusquette on November 15, 2019, 10:26:40 AM
I was actually thinking to myself during the game if Sam was watching or following and texted Markus congratulating him after a nice win. Is he that kind of friend still?
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on November 15, 2019, 10:35:15 AM
Really dumb comment here.
Fine, I admit it, I'm a fan of great basketball players who represent my university well.
He doesn't represent your university at all any more and hasn't for 6 or 7 months.  Drop it already.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: lawdog77 on November 15, 2019, 10:42:12 AM
Absolutely.  I'm not gonna extrapolate an entire season out of one good half of basketball against a middle-of-the-road Purdue team, but I was encouraged by the resolve the guys showed.  The defense looks to be tough but very worried we don't have nearly enough offense.

It remains to be seen if Koby, Greg, Jayce > Sam, Joey; I hope that's the case.  All I'm saying is this board is kidding themselves if they think we're better off without Sam Hauser on this team.  Then again with all the idiots who frequent Scoop, that's probably common thought.  Guy was likely a First Team All-Big East player and was on pace to be an all-timer at Marquette.  Resulting "resentment" cause they left and perceived "chemistry" when 2 guys have usage rates above 25% doesn't make up for that.
Define all-timer
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Spaniel with a Short Tail on November 15, 2019, 10:48:41 AM
Absolutely.  I'm not gonna extrapolate an entire season out of one good half of basketball against a middle-of-the-road Purdue team, but I was encouraged by the resolve the guys showed.  The defense looks to be tough but very worried we don't have nearly enough offense.

It remains to be seen if Koby, Greg, Jayce > Sam, Joey; I hope that's the case.  All I'm saying is this board is kidding themselves if they think we're better off without Sam Hauser on this team.  Then again with all the idiots who frequent Scoop, that's probably common thought.  Guy was likely a First Team All-Big East player and was on pace to be an all-timer at Marquette.  Resulting "resentment" cause they left and perceived "chemistry" when 2 guys have usage rates above 25% doesn't make up for that.

I think this equation is off. It would be Koby, Greg, Jayce > Sam, Joey less Sacar and unknown others.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: MU82 on November 15, 2019, 11:01:24 AM
I'm sure it's not in the front of their minds during the games, but I'd bet that it's come up with the guys that were on last year's team at least a few times over the summer.  Those things do help the surviving members of "an attempted coup" bond and move forward.

Perhaps.

Agreed.  It was likely a rallying point for off-season workouts.  Now just an old, fading bruise with far more important things to worry about.

Yep.

I guarantee that the Hausers obsess a lot less about Marquette than some Marquette fans obsess about the Hausers (and that goes for both sides of this dumb discussion).

Yessir.

I agree with that.

And I will speculate that the Hausers think more about the current MU team than the current MU team thinks about the Hausers. MU is playing real games, and their attention is likely focused, while the Hausers are sitting out. They are with and engaged with MSU and UVa, no doubt, but they probably have more time to reflect on what was and what might have been.

Probably correct.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: onepost on November 15, 2019, 11:11:16 AM
Define all-timer

Sam was:
- 500 points away from #4 on the all-time scoring list (had 507 as a Junior)
- Assured #3 on the all-time 3-pointers made (probably would have passed Novak for #2)
- Shooting 88% from the FT line, could have reached 90%
- Shooting 45% from 3
- A part of countless memorable moments (Creighton shot, Nova upset, numerous big 3's, etc.)
- Going to be a preseason 1st Team All-Big East player, could have ended up as one
- On a team that many on here felt was primed for a potential Final Four run

That good enough for you?
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: lawdog77 on November 15, 2019, 11:15:24 AM
Sam was:
- 500 points away from #4 on the all-time scoring list (had 507 as a Junior)
- Assured #3 on the all-time 3-pointers made (probably would have passed Novak for #2)
- Shooting 88% from the FT line, could have reached 90%
- Shooting 45% from 3
- A part of countless memorable moments (Creighton shot, Nova upset, numerous big 3's, etc.)
- Going to be a preseason 1st Team All-Big East player, could have ended up as one
- On a team that many on here felt was primed for a potential Final Four run

That good enough for you?
my comment was a joke. See cheeks v.lenny, circa 2019
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Lennys Tap on November 15, 2019, 11:25:22 AM
Sam was:
- 500 points away from #4 on the all-time scoring list (had 507 as a Junior)
- Assured #3 on the all-time 3-pointers made (probably would have passed Novak for #2)
- Shooting 88% from the FT line, could have reached 90%
- Shooting 45% from 3
- A part of countless memorable moments (Creighton shot, Nova upset, numerous big 3's, etc.)
- Going to be a preseason 1st Team All-Big East player, could have ended up as one
- On a team that many on here felt was primed for a potential Final Four run

That good enough for you?

And he's 6 months younger than fellow MU "all timer" Brendan Bailey!
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: MU82 on November 15, 2019, 11:27:04 AM
Sam was:
- 500 points away from #4 on the all-time scoring list (had 507 as a Junior)
- Assured #3 on the all-time 3-pointers made (probably would have passed Novak for #2)
- Shooting 88% from the FT line, could have reached 90%
- Shooting 45% from 3
- A part of countless memorable moments (Creighton shot, Nova upset, numerous big 3's, etc.)
- Going to be a preseason 1st Team All-Big East player, could have ended up as one
- On a team that many on here felt was primed for a potential Final Four run


Sam was a very good player for Marquette and he no doubt will be a very good player for Virginia.

I tend to think this team would have been a lot better with him. Not as sure about Joey; even though he obviously is skilled, he had maturity issues.

We won't know about how their absence affects "chemistry" of the current Marquette Warriors/Eagles -- good or bad -- for many more months.

Regardless, they ain't walkin' through that door, so it sure would be nice if the pining for them would stop.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: onepost on November 15, 2019, 11:34:33 AM
He doesn't represent your university at all any more and hasn't for 6 or 7 months.  Drop it already.

Haha "drop it already"?  The basis of this thread was literally about the lack of Hausers....so I commented on Sam Hauser.....  Or excuse me, defended that I was a big fan of his.  Of course I was a big fan of his, who wasn't?

He doesn't represent MU anymore, and that's a goddamn shame.  Instead of a potential incredible season with the chances of a #1 ranking, we're now left with scrapping for a 7-10 seed.  The "what could have been" isn't going away any time soon.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: JakeBarnes on November 15, 2019, 11:39:21 AM
Haha "drop it already"?  The basis of this thread was literally about the lack of Hausers....so I commented on Sam Hauser.....  Or excuse me, defended that I was a big fan of his.  Of course I was a big fan of his, who wasn't?

He doesn't represent MU anymore, and that's a goddamn shame.  Instead of a potential incredible season with the chances of a #1 ranking, we're now left with scrapping for a 7-10 seed.  The "what could have been" isn't going away any time soon.

I was unaware the team wasn't playing games for the rest of the season and that the outcome was predetermined.

Everyone needs to chill the f down. Sorry you feel slighted that Sam left. The team on the court is still a lot of fun to watch. Live in the present. Enjoy the season. At the end of it, then you can say "what could have been." But now isn't that time. Games to be played, specifically the one against Wisconsin. One to the next one.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: onepost on November 15, 2019, 11:46:40 AM
I was unaware the team wasn't playing games for the rest of the season and that the outcome was predetermined.

Everyone needs to chill the f down. Sorry you feel slighted that Sam left. The team on the court is still a lot of fun to watch. Live in the present. Enjoy the season. At the end of it, then you can say "what could have been." But now isn't that time. Games to be played, specifically the one against Wisconsin. One to the next one.

I'll enjoy the season like I do every season.  But again, things were building up for THIS to be the season, and it's a bummer our ceiling is nowhere near where it should be.  Still like the guys we have, will relish the last games we have of Markus, hope players like Jamal and Greg can take big steps, and contend for the BE crown.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: BCHoopster on November 15, 2019, 11:54:04 AM
I'll enjoy the season like I do every season.  But again, things were building up for THIS to be the season, and it's a bummer our ceiling is nowhere near where it should be.  Still like the guys we have, will relish the last games we have of Markus, hope players like Jamal and Greg can take big steps, and contend for the BE crown.

They should contend, Villy is a long way from being good this year, no go to player, like they had 2 last year.  X is good, Powell is outstanding
can take a game over like Markus can.  The rest of the league is not as good, Northwestern beat Providence, that is a shocker,  Butler is OK, the rest we will see.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Pakuni on November 15, 2019, 11:56:35 AM
Haha "drop it already"?  The basis of this thread was literally about the lack of Hausers....so I commented on Sam Hauser.....  Or excuse me, defended that I was a big fan of his.  Of course I was a big fan of his, who wasn't?

He doesn't represent MU anymore, and that's a goddamn shame.  Instead of a potential incredible season with the chances of a #1 ranking, we're now left with scrapping for a 7-10 seed.  The "what could have been" isn't going away any time soon.

Sam chose to leave.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: skianth16 on November 15, 2019, 12:06:43 PM
Doesn't every single sports fan focus on the "what could have been" scenarios? Sometimes that's a bigger talking point than the actual games. Even now, I still end up talking with friends about the '09 season and what kind of run we could have made with a healthy Dominic James. As a Bengals fan, I talk about how far they could have gone in the 2015 season when Andy Dalton was having himself an MVP-caliber season before breaking his wrist in Week 13 or 14. Ask Cubs fans if they know who Steve Bartman is.

Telling a sports fan to get over the what-ifs or to just move on is much easier said than done. This whole message board wouldn't be needed if all we did was digest recent games and talk about upcoming games. Last year at this time, a lot of MU fans were already looking forward to what this year would bring. It's hard to avoid. It's just part of being a fan.

The Hausers will be mentioned on this board, by TV analysts, and at many pre-game/post-game bars by MU fans. They're gone but they're not going away. And that's OK.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Marcus92 on November 15, 2019, 12:21:33 PM
Sam would make this a Top 10 team

This could be a Top 10 team without Sam. KenPom currently ranks Marquette at #13, already up 2 spots from the beginning of the season.

That's not denying Sam's obvious talent. He's one of the greatest shooters in college basketball and Marquette history, an incredible competitor and a smart player. At the same time, those abilities don't automatically make him the best complementary piece to a team with Markus as its focus.

Just one example:

One of Sam's biggest shortcomings is offensive rebounding (3.7 OR% last season). You can argue this is a huge need on a team where outside shooting is so dominant. Three-pointers account for 43.6% of MU's shot attempts so far this year (63rd highest percentage in the country, 3rd in the Big East). Because 3-point attempts convert at a lower rate, and because missed 3-pointers tend to produce more long rebounds, an off night beyond the arc can easily turn into lots of easy transition opportunities for opponents.

Ed (15.5 OR% last season), Theo (11.1%), Jamal (7.2%), Brendan (6.5%) and Jayce (12.6% as a junior at Utah) are all vastly better than Sam on the offensive glass. That could lead to more second-chance points (often high-percentage shots close to the basket) and fewer breakaways on the other end.

We're only two games in. But the early results are encouraging. Team offensive rebounding has ticked up from 29.4% a year ago to 31.2% this year. Effective FG% is up from 53.5% to 55.0%. And defensive 2P% is down from 45.1% to 36.6%.

Basketball is a team sport, one that requires multiple skills for success. Sam is truly exceptional as a spot-up shooter. He's also a solid defender and rebounder. But he's average to below-average in other key areas beyond offensive rebounding -- including as a perimeter driver, on-ball defender (1.1 Stl%, only ahead of Joey and Theo last season) and shot blocker (1.7 Blk% last season, only ahead of Markus, Joey, Sacar and Joseph Chartouny).

While few would say Jamal or Brendan are more talented players than Sam, they may be a better fit for this team and help it achieve more success on the court. From what I've seen so far, I like the way the players on this roster complement one another offensively and defensively.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on November 15, 2019, 12:53:09 PM
Doesn't every single sports fan focus on the "what could have been" scenarios? Sometimes that's a bigger talking point than the actual games. Even now, I still end up talking with friends about the '09 season and what kind of run we could have made with a healthy Dominic James. As a Bengals fan, I talk about how far they could have gone in the 2015 season when Andy Dalton was having himself an MVP-caliber season before breaking his wrist in Week 13 or 14. Ask Cubs fans if they know who Steve Bartman is.

Telling a sports fan to get over the what-ifs or to just move on is much easier said than done. This whole message board wouldn't be needed if all we did was digest recent games and talk about upcoming games. Last year at this time, a lot of MU fans were already looking forward to what this year would bring. It's hard to avoid. It's just part of being a fan.

The Hausers will be mentioned on this board, by TV analysts, and at many pre-game/post-game bars by MU fans. They're gone but they're not going away. And that's OK.
I get all that. 

A guy getting injured is one thing and for a while after that '09 season concluded I certainly thought about how far we could have gone had he not been injured.  It was devastating at the time thinking about what might have been. 

That's not nearly the same as pining for a guy who chose to transfer, and for me at least, losing the guy that chose to leave doesn't have any where near the same impact.  I haven't thought much about Sam since he left since, you know, he chose to leave.  Not quite to the point of wishing him ill, I just don't wish him anything and have moved on or gotten over it as I said earlier. 

If others want to keep thinking about what might have been...go for it.  It just gets old.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Jockey on November 15, 2019, 01:13:58 PM
Sam is an excellent basketball player and it is disappointing he left.  They are a less talented team without him.  Whether they are a worse team is still to be determined.   Team chemistry can help teams transcend their talents.  We’ll see what happens with this team but so far they seem very close and willing to sacrifice for each other.

Exactly.

Everyone realizes that we would be better offensively with Sam on this team. I think everyone also knows that we would be worse defensively with Sam on this team.

As you said, We'll see what happens this year. We will certainly see a tougher, scrappier team game in and game out. Even Markus has bought in on the defensive end. Even as the weakest link, he is giving max effort every time down the floor on defense.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Marcus92 on November 15, 2019, 01:20:17 PM
Everyone realizes that we would be better offensively with Sam on this team.

Nothing against Sam, but this is not a foregone conclusion. While Marquette had one of the most potent three-point attacks in the country with Markus, Sam and Joey, it was also one of the most one-dimensional.

There's a chance that this year's team is actually more efficient offensively without Sam and Joey -- due to greater versatility and balance (between outside shooters, penetrators and post-up players).
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on November 15, 2019, 01:26:27 PM
Just one example:

One of Sam's biggest shortcomings is offensive rebounding (3.7 OR% last season).
I understand your overall point that as talented as Sam is, he might not have been exactly what the team needed, but I don't think OR% is a very good example.  You don't get a lot of O boards when you are primarily a spot up 3 point shooter.  He wasn't asked to be a offensive rebounder in the way he was being used.  It's like pointing out that Theo doesn't get many fast break points.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: brewcity77 on November 15, 2019, 01:29:41 PM
A guy getting injured is one thing and for a while after that '09 season concluded I certainly thought about how far we could have gone had he not been injured.  It was devastating at the time thinking about what might have been.

I get where you're coming from, but just like that '09 season, this one will always be caveated with a "what if" by some fans unless we win the national championship. We went from one of the favorites to win it all to a team hoping for a second weekend run.

I'm still hoping to cut down nets in Atlanta, because until we're out, that's always my hope, but anything short of that will lead to this being one of those "what if" seasons for years to come.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Uncle Rico on November 15, 2019, 01:48:00 PM
Seton Hall sucks
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: onepost on November 15, 2019, 01:51:45 PM
Doesn't every single sports fan focus on the "what could have been" scenarios? Sometimes that's a bigger talking point than the actual games. Even now, I still end up talking with friends about the '09 season and what kind of run we could have made with a healthy Dominic James. As a Bengals fan, I talk about how far they could have gone in the 2015 season when Andy Dalton was having himself an MVP-caliber season before breaking his wrist in Week 13 or 14. Ask Cubs fans if they know who Steve Bartman is.

Telling a sports fan to get over the what-ifs or to just move on is much easier said than done. This whole message board wouldn't be needed if all we did was digest recent games and talk about upcoming games. Last year at this time, a lot of MU fans were already looking forward to what this year would bring. It's hard to avoid. It's just part of being a fan.

The Hausers will be mentioned on this board, by TV analysts, and at many pre-game/post-game bars by MU fans. They're gone but they're not going away. And that's OK.

Thank you for putting this better than I did.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Marcus92 on November 15, 2019, 02:17:49 PM
I understand your overall point that as talented as Sam is, he might not have been exactly what the team needed, but I don't think OR% is a very good example.  You don't get a lot of O boards when you are primarily a spot up 3 point shooter.  He wasn't asked to be a offensive rebounder in the way he was being used.  It's like pointing out that Theo doesn't get many fast break points.

This actually goes to my point.

On this team, you already have a better all-around scorer in Markus -- one who can not only spot up from three, but create his own shot on step backs, mid-range pull-ups and driving floaters.

So if you have one of the greatest go-to scorers and perimeter shooters in college basketball, what other team needs are most important?

Offensively, I'd look for players who can distribute (Koby, Symir, Greg), penetrate (Koby, Sacar), post up (Jayce, Ed, Theo) and crash the offensive boards (Jamal, Brendan, Ed, Theo, Jayce) first. Of course, there's a need for other spot-up shooters. But we've got that covered with Koby, Sacar, Greg, Symir, Jamal and Brendan. They may not be lights-out shooters like Sam -- but they're much more versatile overall and can fill more key roles within the offense.

Defensively, Wojo's scheme emphasizes on-ball defenders with the length, quickness, athleticism and strength to stay in front of their man, recover quickly, shrink passing lanes, cause deflections, contest shots, provide help when needed and rebound. The same principle applies here; a player like Jamal or Brendan fills virtually all of these critical defensive roles better than Sam.

It's true Sam wasn't asked to be an offensive rebounder. But I simply don't see that in his skill set. He's slow, with average length and can't jump. Nobody would confuse him with Jamal, Brendon, Ed or Theo when it comes to athleticism.

Sam is exceptionally good at what he does best: shooting the ball. Shooting has been a clear strength of this team the past 3 seasons -- but how far has that gotten us? Two NCAA appearances, 2 first-round exits. It seems clear this team was missing something.

The current roster includes more players who can fill multiple roles. That could be a bigger difference-maker this season than Sam's shooting ability.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: cheebs09 on November 15, 2019, 02:49:19 PM
I get where you're coming from, but just like that '09 season, this one will always be caveated with a "what if" by some fans unless we win the national championship. We went from one of the favorites to win it all to a team hoping for a second weekend run.

I'm still hoping to cut down nets in Atlanta, because until we're out, that's always my hope, but anything short of that will lead to this being one of those "what if" seasons for years to come.

I think we are overestimating how good that team would have been. One of the favorites to win it all? I had high hopes, but wouldn’t have ever called us a favorite to win it all. I get one place ranked us number 2 for whatever reason. I think we all thought that was lofty.

I really miss the Hausers, but feel like we were looking at a top 15 team. Not necessarily a top 5 with expectations of a Final 4.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on November 15, 2019, 03:02:42 PM
Sam was as a fundamentally sound freshman as I have seen at MU. He did a lot of things well, often using his smarts to make up for his lack of athleticsm.

What he did really well is shoot. How the current roster is comprised, it will have to be a combination of players to replace his contributions. It is quite clear there isn't one player that will replace his shooting.

As we saw versus Purdue, MU's defense is much improved, however.

 
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on November 15, 2019, 03:14:32 PM
I would say the team looks fitter, happier, more productive, and appear to be getting along better with their associate contemporaries. By my calculation, this should result in 3-4 wins above expectations on paper.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: StillAWarrior on November 15, 2019, 03:18:40 PM
The title of this thread makes me think of professional baseball in the 90s.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: BrewCity83 on November 15, 2019, 03:30:31 PM
I really miss the Hausers, but feel like we were looking at a top 15 team. Not necessarily a top 5 with expectations of a Final 4.

That's reasonable.  And I think a Top 15 team is what we have now, without the Hausers.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: brewcity77 on November 15, 2019, 03:31:34 PM
I think we are overestimating how good that team would have been. One of the favorites to win it all? I had high hopes, but wouldn’t have ever called us a favorite to win it all. I get one place ranked us number 2 for whatever reason. I think we all thought that was lofty.

I really miss the Hausers, but feel like we were looking at a top 15 team. Not necessarily a top 5 with expectations of a Final 4.

Every too-early ranking had us top 5-10 that I recall.

ESPN #2: https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26464237/loaded-michigan-state-leads-way-too-early-top-25-2019-20

NBC had us at #4, Andy Katz at #5: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.anonymouseagle.com/platform/amp/2019/10/28/20936073/marquette-golden-eagles-basketball-preview-roundtable-remember-those-top-five-expectations

Sports Illustrated #6: https://amp.si.com/college-basketball/2019/04/09/ncaa-basketball-rankings-early-top-25-kentucky-duke-michigan-state

Gary Parish #7: https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/2019-20-college-basketball-rankings-michigan-state-is-no-1-in-our-never-too-early-top-25-and-1-for-next-season/

Sporting News #7: https://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/college-basketball-rankings-sporting-news-way-too-early-top-25-for-2019-20/1oplcsov8ioxf18ydgei068fyp

CBB on Fox #8: https://twitter.com/cbbonfox/status/1115746782355394561?s=21

USA Today #8: https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2019/04/09/preseason-college-basketball-top-25-rankings/3381228002/

I think anyone that's a top 5-10 team would be one of the favorites.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: skianth16 on November 15, 2019, 03:37:38 PM
This actually goes to my point.

On this team, you already have a better all-around scorer in Markus -- one who can not only spot up from three, but create his own shot on step backs, mid-range pull-ups and driving floaters.

So if you have one of the greatest go-to scorers and perimeter shooters in college basketball, what other team needs are most important?

Offensively, I'd look for players who can distribute (Koby, Symir, Greg), penetrate (Koby, Sacar), post up (Jayce, Ed, Theo) and crash the offensive boards (Jamal, Brendan, Ed, Theo, Jayce) first. Of course, there's a need for other spot-up shooters. But we've got that covered with Koby, Sacar, Greg, Symir, Jamal and Brendan. They may not be lights-out shooters like Sam -- but they're much more versatile overall and can fill more key roles within the offense.

Defensively, Wojo's scheme emphasizes on-ball defenders with the length, quickness, athleticism and strength to stay in front of their man, recover quickly, shrink passing lanes, cause deflections, contest shots, provide help when needed and rebound. The same principle applies here; a player like Jamal or Brendan fills virtually all of these critical defensive roles better than Sam.

It's true Sam wasn't asked to be an offensive rebounder. But I simply don't see that in his skill set. He's slow, with average length and can't jump. Nobody would confuse him with Jamal, Brendon, Ed or Theo when it comes to athleticism.

Sam is exceptionally good at what he does best: shooting the ball. Shooting has been a clear strength of this team the past 3 seasons -- but how far has that gotten us? Two NCAA appearances, 2 first-round exits. It seems clear this team was missing something.

The current roster includes more players who can fill multiple roles. That could be a bigger difference-maker this season than Sam's shooting ability.

How much kool-aid did you spill when writing this? Just kidding, just kiding  :P

I think what we're seeing in a lot of posts about the Hausers is people overstating positive attributes of our current roster while also overstating the negative attributes of the Hausers' games. This is a great example.

Sam was more than a spot up shooter, and we all know that. He had a great post game and was able to play with his back to the basket very well. I'd call that a guy who can play multiple roles. He also led the team in rebounds last year (despite being so slow and having no hops), and Joey was #2. And when it comes to FTs, who would you rather have on the line in the last minute of a game, Sam or anyone not named Markus on this year's team? Even from a ballhandling perspective, there's a reason we saw Sam and even Joey at times bringing the ball up last year more than Jamal or Brendan.

The way you talk about Jamal and Brendan and Ed is basically looking at them at the high end of their potential, not really looking at what they've actually produced. Physcially, there are a lot of guys that fit the mold of what you described above, but at this level, basketball IQ and confidence make a big difference. All of Greg, Jamal, Brendan and Ed are still a little lacking in these departments at times right now and as a result, still aren't quite to the level a lot of us want them to be at. They'll get better with more experience, but none of them are at the level of where Sam was last year. Doubtful any of them are even at the level Joey was, really.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Marcus92 on November 15, 2019, 04:48:52 PM
Some really good points, skianth.

As a huge fan of Sam's during his time here (for all of the reasons you stated), initially I thought there was no way this could be a better team without him. Co-MVP, all Big East, minutes played, et cetera. I don't mean to downplay his skills or contributions.

On the defensive end, for instance, Sam seemed to understand how team defense is supposed to work -- always aware of what's going on around him, putting himself in the best position on the court and defending without fouling.

At the same time, there are things Marquette did as a team Wednesday night I don't think it could have done last season with Sam in the lineup.

Purdue's offense is a nightmare for man-to-man defenses. Constant motion, screens and ball movement -- all designed to slow down individual defenders and create open, high-percentage looks. Instead of wearing down Marquette, though, it looked like Purdue was getting worn down. Players like Jamal and Greg fought through every screen and used their length and quickness to close out and contest virtually every shot. It was quite possibly the best defensive performance I've seen by a Wojo-coached team.

We'll have to see how the season plays out. But I do think this team could have a higher ceiling without Sam -- because of how the pieces fit together.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: onepost on November 15, 2019, 05:10:58 PM
I would say the team looks fitter, happier, more productive, and appear to be getting along better with their associate contemporaries. By my calculation, this should result in 3-4 wins above expectations on paper.

This is absolutely ridiculous to both infer from 80 minutes of basketball and to calculate.  Did you forget the teal?
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on November 15, 2019, 05:13:41 PM
This is absolutely ridiculous to both infer from 80 minutes of basketball and to calculate.  Did you forget the teal?

No dude, I was dead serious.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on November 15, 2019, 05:31:58 PM
Haha "drop it already"?  The basis of this thread was literally about the lack of Hausers....so I commented on Sam Hauser.....  Or excuse me, defended that I was a big fan of his.  Of course I was a big fan of his, who wasn't?

He doesn't represent MU anymore, and that's a goddamn shame.  Instead of a potential incredible season with the chances of a #1 ranking, we're now left with scrapping for a 7-10 seed.  The "what could have been" isn't going away any time soon.

I wasnt once i found out he was a complete bitch.  U still pining for the ho that cheated on u sophomore year.
Would rather lose without the Hauser bitches than win with them. I said it then n i will say it again that aint gonna be a problem.  Unathletic stiffs were the problem not the solution.  We get housed by Purdue with those turnstiles on the floor.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Jockey on November 15, 2019, 06:26:26 PM
Seton Hall sucks

Big picture? Maybe.

Last night, however, they showed they are absolutely contenders for the BE crown.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Boozemon Barro on November 15, 2019, 07:15:25 PM
This is absolutely ridiculous to both infer from 80 minutes of basketball and to calculate.  Did you forget the teal?

Did you? I'm confused.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: MU82 on November 15, 2019, 07:33:38 PM
Doesn't every single sports fan focus on the "what could have been" scenarios?

Absolutely, and lots of us keep bringing up this particular "what could have been" scenario over and over and over again.

This thread specifically talked about the improved chemistry without the Hausers, so I certainly get it here. But sometimes, the pining does get a little old. For me, anyway. I understand how popular Sam was -- I enjoyed watching him play, too.

I also agree with your post in which you talk about Sam being better than just a spot-up shooter. A lot of folks here are angry about the way everything transpired, so they they under-rate how good an all-around player he was. (On the flip side, a lot of folks are very angry about Wojo's perceived role in it, and so they bring up Hausershima constantly as a way to rip Wojo.)

Our defense would still be very good this season with him playing 30+ mpg, especially if only Joey had transferred. Sam does a lot of good things defensively, and IMHO he's not nearly as bad an athlete as some keep saying.

But again ... he ain't walkin' through that door again.

He no longer wanted to be a Warrior. That was his choice, and his alone. So while I appreciate his basketball ability, I don't pine for him one iota.

I am thrilled with the guys who wanted to be Warriors, including many who were rumored to want out but decided to stay after the Hausers left.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Herman Cain on November 15, 2019, 07:44:35 PM
Just to clarify one denominational thing. What I mean by better chemistry, is a)that each kid on the team has a well defined role , b) everyone on the team respects each others role and and c) the availability of minutes with respect to their respective roles, gives each guy a chance to play enough to build confidence. Net result a team working together cohesively.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Slim on November 15, 2019, 08:42:11 PM
Just to clarify one denominational thing. What I mean by better chemistry, is a)that each kid on the team has a well defined role , b) everyone on the team respects each others role and and c) the availability of minutes with respect to their respective roles, gives each guy a chance to play enough to build confidence. Net result a team working together cohesively.

I hope you're right Herm. I think it is too early to tell. BB was not happy after the game, I don't see how Ed could be either.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: THRILLHO on November 15, 2019, 09:26:24 PM
I wasnt once i found out he was a complete bitch.  U still pining for the ho that cheated on u sophomore year.
Would rather lose without the Hauser bitches than win with them. I said it then n i will say it again that aint gonna be a problem.  Unathletic stiffs were the problem not the solution.  We get housed by Purdue with those turnstiles on the floor.
You should never post again.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Its DJOver on November 15, 2019, 09:54:25 PM
I hope you're right Herm. I think it is too early to tell. BB was not happy after the game, I don't see how Ed could be either.

Only one BB should be upset with is himself. Picked up 2 quick fouls in the first half, comes out in the second and takes a terrible shot, and gets thoroughly outplayed by Jamal.  Wojo can't be giving out minutes just to keep people happy.  If BB can't beat out Jamal, he won't be the impact player that we expected.

As for Ed, when he's going up against 6-9 or 6-10 players, he can make up the size differential with his strength.  Can't really do that against someone 7-3.  Plus we don't know how the big rotations will be when Jayce comes back and we have the option to go twin towers. 

Bottom line, it's far too small of a sample size to make a determination either way.   
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: MU82 on November 15, 2019, 10:19:54 PM
I hope you're right Herm. I think it is too early to tell. BB was not happy after the game, I don't see how Ed could be either.

Was this something you observed, or do you have inside information?

Not criticizing you in the least for your post. Just curious as to how you came to this conclusion.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: willie warrior on November 16, 2019, 05:57:57 AM
Loser
Hmmm Last years champs dont think that way concerning Sam.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Shooter McGavin on November 16, 2019, 10:20:24 AM
Only one BB should be upset with is himself. Picked up 2 quick fouls in the first half, comes out in the second and takes a terrible shot, and gets thoroughly outplayed by Jamal.  Wojo can't be giving out minutes just to keep people happy.  If BB can't beat out Jamal, he won't be the impact player that we expected.

As for Ed, when he's going up against 6-9 or 6-10 players, he can make up the size differential with his strength.  Can't really do that against someone 7-3.  Plus we don't know how the big rotations will be when Jayce comes back and we have the option to go twin towers. 

Bottom line, it's far too small of a sample size to make a determination either way.

This is right. Brendan played himself out of the Purdue game.  He should only be upset with himself and happy for the team win.  Hopefully this will motivate him to play better against Wisconsin.  Looking forward to his development.  He is going to be a huge piece of the puzzle for us going forward.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on November 16, 2019, 11:06:26 AM
I think we are overestimating how good that team would have been. One of the favorites to win it all? I had high hopes, but wouldn’t have ever called us a favorite to win it all. I get one place ranked us number 2 for whatever reason. I think we all thought that was lofty.

I really miss the Hausers, but feel like we were looking at a top 15 team. Not necessarily a top 5 with expectations of a Final 4.

Looks where UL entered the season ranked. Everyone has them as a massive contender and a current 1 seed.

Last year they were a 10 seed that got stomped by Minny and lost to us early in the year.

Like UL we would be returning everyone(under the assumption the Hausers are still here). We very clearly woulda been one of the main contenders.

Hell even the preseason #1 Michigan State lost far more production to level the field for teams like us and UL.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: skianth16 on November 16, 2019, 12:37:52 PM
As for Ed, when he's going up against 6-9 or 6-10 players, he can make up the size differential with his strength.  Can't really do that against someone 7-3.  Plus we don't know how the big rotations will be when Jayce comes back and we have the option to go twin towers. 

I think a lot of posters here comment on Ed's game based on what he looks like moreso than how he actually plays. He looks like a bruiser, but he's much more of a finesse guy around the rim. He doesn't really push guys around a ton; he's more likely to get to the rim by using his footwork to get around a defender rather that going through him. And I'd say that style even carries over to his defensive game too.

This could probably end up being its own thread, but when Jayce is healthy, I don't think we'll see a ton of minutes from Ed. He seems to be a distant third option behind Jayce and Theo right now. So I'm guessing the only time we'll go with two bigs is when we have Jayce and Theo together. And with our depth at the wing, I'm even OK with limiting the two-big lineups to just a few sets per game.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: brewcity77 on November 16, 2019, 12:54:11 PM
This could probably end up being its own thread, but when Jayce is healthy, I don't think we'll see a ton of minutes from Ed. He seems to be a distant third option behind Jayce and Theo right now. So I'm guessing the only time we'll go with two bigs is when we have Jayce and Theo together. And with our depth at the wing, I'm even OK with limiting the two-big lineups to just a few sets per game.

I'll be very interested in this. I think Ed is a solid player and fits in at this level. But other than the 2-big sets, I agree, I just don't see where he fits other than if the Johnson combo is in foul trouble. Maybe we'll see some midrange from him once that happens, but if that's going to become part of his game, I'd think he would try to work it in during these first games and not just when he's in a new set.

The other thing that will make it harder is that Cain has been pretty solid. Good defensively, adequate offensively, great rebounder. Ed will have to be able to play past him and Bailey.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: MU82 on November 16, 2019, 02:54:10 PM
I think a lot of posters here comment on Ed's game based on what he looks like moreso than how he actually plays. He looks like a bruiser, but he's much more of a finesse guy around the rim. He doesn't really push guys around a ton; he's more likely to get to the rim by using his footwork to get around a defender rather that going through him. And I'd say that style even carries over to his defensive game too.

This could probably end up being its own thread, but when Jayce is healthy, I don't think we'll see a ton of minutes from Ed. He seems to be a distant third option behind Jayce and Theo right now. So I'm guessing the only time we'll go with two bigs is when we have Jayce and Theo together. And with our depth at the wing, I'm even OK with limiting the two-big lineups to just a few sets per game.

How do you know Morrow is a "distant third option" when we haven't see one second of Jayce yet?

Did Wojo indicate in some way that Jayce was ahead of Morrow on the depth chart?

I am not any kind of insider, and I am genuinely interested in how you arrived at this.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: JakeBarnes on November 16, 2019, 03:45:44 PM
How do you know Morrow is a "distant third option" when we haven't see one second of Jayce yet?

Did Wojo indicate in some way that Jayce was ahead of Morrow on the depth chart?

I am not any kind of insider, and I am genuinely interested in how you arrived at this.

I guess we will find out to Morrow.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Class71 on November 16, 2019, 05:18:01 PM
Think it is time for us to move on. Some think the Hausers were great others see significant flaws. Bottom line they are gone and it does not matter. No point going over what if's or are we better or worse. This is a different team and our team to cheer for is in Milwuakee.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: skianth16 on November 16, 2019, 07:34:37 PM
How do you know Morrow is a "distant third option" when we haven't see one second of Jayce yet?

Did Wojo indicate in some way that Jayce was ahead of Morrow on the depth chart?

I am not any kind of insider, and I am genuinely interested in how you arrived at this.

Pure speculation, honestly. But with Jayce's track record compared to Ed's, it seems like a good bet to me.

I like Ed. I just think he'll have a tough time getting minutes with our roster. In a lot of scenarios, he could be a big time guy. I just don't see that for us this year. I see that as one of those good problems, though.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: MU82 on November 16, 2019, 07:40:32 PM
Pure speculation, honestly. But with Jayce's track record compared to Ed's, it seems like a good bet to me.

I like Ed. I just think he'll have a tough time getting minutes with our roster. In a lot of scenarios, he could be a big time guy. I just don't see that for us this year. I see that as one of those good problems, though.

Thanks for the answer.

I will be thrilled if Jayce gets healthy and shows he is more valuable than Ed, because Morrow ended up helping us win a lot of games last season. Indeed, a very pleasant problem if it happens.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on November 16, 2019, 07:44:05 PM
Pure speculation, honestly. But with Jayce's track record compared to Ed's, it seems like a good bet to me.

I like Ed. I just think he'll have a tough time getting minutes with our roster. In a lot of scenarios, he could be a big time guy. I just don't see that for us this year. I see that as one of those good problems, though.

When Jayce returns, he and Theo will man the center and Ed and Bailey will share the PF spot (or 4) in Wojo’s offense. Ed will see more minutes. He was not a good match up vs. Haarms. And, one of the reasons he transferred here is that he didn’t want to be the center. Ed will be a big contributor.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: MU82 on November 16, 2019, 07:49:52 PM
When Jayce returns, he and Theo will man the center and Ed and Bailey will share the PF spot (or 4) in Wojo’s offense. Ed will see more minutes. He was not a good match up vs. Haarms. And, one of the reasons he transferred here is that he didn’t want to be the center. Ed will be a big contributor.

I dunno, Doc. So far, it's tough to imagine Theo and Ed or Jayce and Ed being on the court together for too many minutes given that Ed has so far shown no ability to score from more than 1 foot away from the hoop.

I maybe can see it happening against opponents that play 2 bigs a lot, but there aren't many teams like that.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on November 16, 2019, 08:04:30 PM
I dunno, Doc. So far, it's tough to imagine Theo and Ed or Jayce and Ed being on the court together for too many minutes given that Ed has so far shown no ability to score from more than 1 foot away from the hoop.

I maybe can see it happening against opponents that play 2 bigs a lot, but there aren't many teams like that.

Some can talk about BB being an all timer, the fact is he hasn’t shown it yet (hope to be proven wrong). Also, Wojo has talked about this line-up all summer and has practiced it. Ed hasn’t shown it as he has had to play the 5 in his two seasons here. A note, he hasn’t missed all year and his rebounding replaces Sam’s.

It will take a committee, but there are minutes to be had as neither BB or Ed replaces Sam (BB Plus Ed might come close). Wojo will ride the match-ups and hot hands much more than last season.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: MU82 on November 16, 2019, 11:01:42 PM
Some can talk about BB being an all timer, the fact is he hasn’t shown it yet (hope to be proven wrong). Also, Wojo has talked about this line-up all summer and has practiced it. Ed hasn’t shown it as he has had to play the 5 in his two seasons here. A note, he hasn’t missed all year and his rebounding replaces Sam’s.

It will take a committee, but there are minutes to be had as neither BB or Ed replaces Sam (BB Plus Ed might come close). Wojo will ride the match-ups and hot hands much more than last season.

I am looking forward to seeing if it can work.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: skianth16 on November 16, 2019, 11:08:06 PM
I dunno, Doc. So far, it's tough to imagine Theo and Ed or Jayce and Ed being on the court together for too many minutes given that Ed has so far shown no ability to score from more than 1 foot away from the hoop.

I maybe can see it happening against opponents that play 2 bigs a lot, but there aren't many teams like that.

This is my thought too. We have a ton of depth, likely strong depth, at the wing with this roster. Guys like Jamal, Brendan, and even Greg (hopefully) can grab some boards and slow down guys in the 3/4 type role. But they will be at their best against the smaller, more athletic wings that are more common in the college game. When we go against a more traditional 4 and 5, I think we see a lot of Theo and Jayce together. But against most teams who don't have 2 traditional bigs, I think we see a consistent rotation of Theo and Jayce.

Ed has some great strengths, but he's in a tough spot this year. He's a little undersized to compete with the Theos of the world, and he's probably just a step slow to compete with the Brendans. I think he'll have some games where he shines, but there will likely be a good number where he just doesn't get to see much action.

Like I said before, this is a good problem to have. We've been wanting to see a strong big for years and years now. But with Theo coming into his own, and Jayce entering as a seasoned player, we're in a unique position this year. Competing for minutes can be frustrating for the players, but it's probably a great thing for the team.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Cheeks on November 17, 2019, 12:10:50 AM
Some can talk about BB being an all timer, the fact is he hasn’t shown it yet (hope to be proven wrong). Also, Wojo has talked about this line-up all summer and has practiced it. Ed hasn’t shown it as he has had to play the 5 in his two seasons here. A note, he hasn’t missed all year and his rebounding replaces Sam’s.

It will take a committee, but there are minutes to be had as neither BB or Ed replaces Sam (BB Plus Ed might come close). Wojo will ride the match-ups and hot hands much more than last season.

You are better than this Doc.    COULD BECOME AN ALL TIMER....THAT IS WHAT WAS SAID.
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on November 17, 2019, 01:23:37 AM
You are better than this Doc.    COULD BECOME AN ALL TIMER....THAT IS WHAT WAS SAID.

I know it’s the end of the Beaver Full Moon, but what on earth did you find such umbrage in to use all caps?
Title: Re: More Athletic and Better Chemistry
Post by: Herman Cain on December 29, 2019, 07:46:14 PM
Just to clarify one definition thing. What I mean by better chemistry, is a)that each kid on the team has a well defined role , b) everyone on the team respects each others role and and c) the availability of minutes with respect to their respective roles, gives each guy a chance to play enough to build confidence. Net result a team working together cohesively.

The good news about our superb team 3 point Shooting in the Non Conference is a benefit of the team being More Athletic and having better Chemistry. The guys are getting clean looks and the result is more makes. Everyone is getting plenty of minutes, embracing their roles and it shows in the productivity of the squad.