MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: sailwi on September 17, 2019, 12:01:15 PM
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I just read the below in a CBS article about 50 things to know about the upcoming season. Why give him a raise and a longer contract, not like anyone is going to try and hire him away. DU has improved slightly under Leitao but he doesn't deserve an extension. Not a word about it on the DU board.
Some of this most confounding news of the off season came to light just a few days ago: DePaul issuing a press release that it was, in fact, in the midst of restructuring Dave Leitao's contract in an effort to provide him a raise and an extension. DePaul is 48-82 the past four seasons under Leitao, not to mention the program was brought up tangentially in the FBI's findings into corruption in recruiting. And he'll be serving a three-game suspension in November because of NCAA sanctions. I mean, what?
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I think a College Sportswriter tweeted they thought it signaled DePaul wanting to show a recruit that the coach would be there awhile.
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I think a College Sportswriter tweeted they thought it signaled DePaul wanting to show a recruit that the coach would be there awhile.
Silly reason to give a coach an extension for that reason, especially a coach with Leitao’s record.
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I think a College Sportswriter tweeted they thought it signaled DePaul wanting to show a recruit that the coach would be there awhile.
exactly. Often times extensions are done for recruiting purposes. Also, as far as we know, DePaul may have given him more years while making it easier to get out of the contract (e.g., lower buyout).
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exactly. Often times extensions are done for recruiting purposes. Also, as far as we know, DePaul may have given him more years while making it easier to get out of the contract (e.g., lower buyout).
Possible but not probable given DePaul's track record.
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Silly reason to give a coach an extension for that reason, especially a coach with Leitao’s record.
Publicly announcing that they aren't giving him an extension may actually help recruiting more.
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Extensions are meaningless, its all about what the buy out is.
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Publicly announcing that they aren't giving him an extension may actually help recruiting more.
I was thinking the same thing.
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I came up with this explanation the other day, basically we are making the mistake of thinking that DePaul places any value on a winning basketball program.
In effect it's like looking at what Loria did when he owned the Marlins. From a fan perspective, we expected the value to be placed on winning. But from Loria's perspective, he valued inflating the value of the franchise and cashing out. Winning was only incidental to that effort (and in some cases detrimental to maximizing profit, which was his actual goal). So evaluating any of Loria's actions through the lens of trying to win was futile.
DePaul has demonstrated for years that whatever its objective with its mens hoops program is, winning is not a critical element of it. My best guess is that they view the benefit that hoops can bring being the Flutie Effect at a maximum and being mentioned on national TV a bunch by riding the Big East's coattails as the doormat of the league at a minimum, and they think the cost of investment to have a shot at a Flutie Effect season far outweighs the probability of succeeding, so they're fine with being stomped because they get mentioned and that's cool enough. I don't know, but I do know that whatever their goals are, winning is only incidental to furthering them.
Or... I suppose they could just be so incompetent that they think that what they're doing is fielding the best possible program and have no idea that they're terrible. But I'm guessing it's not that.
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Honestly I just think they don't want to get humiliated like last time again like how SJU just was.
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Maybe this extension will help us get our home game versus them on national TV, thus switching NMD back to a Saturday where it belongs!
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I came up with this explanation the other day, basically we are making the mistake of thinking that DePaul places any value on a winning basketball program.
In effect it's like looking at what Loria did when he owned the Marlins. From a fan perspective, we expected the value to be placed on winning. But from Loria's perspective, he valued inflating the value of the franchise and cashing out. Winning was only incidental to that effort (and in some cases detrimental to maximizing profit, which was his actual goal). So evaluating any of Loria's actions through the lens of trying to win was futile.
DePaul has demonstrated for years that whatever its objective with its mens hoops program is, winning is not a critical element of it. My best guess is that they view the benefit that hoops can bring being the Flutie Effect at a maximum and being mentioned on national TV a bunch by riding the Big East's coattails as the doormat of the league at a minimum, and they think the cost of investment to have a shot at a Flutie Effect season far outweighs the probability of succeeding, so they're fine with being stomped because they get mentioned and that's cool enough. I don't know, but I do know that whatever their goals are, winning is only incidental to furthering them.
Or... I suppose they could just be so incompetent that they think that what they're doing is fielding the best possible program and have no idea that they're terrible. But I'm guessing it's not that.
You had me at incompetent....
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Honestly I just think they don't want to get humiliated like last time again like how SJU just was.
but in the end SJU got an upgrade.
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but in the end SJU got an upgrade.
No doubt but they were certainly embarrassed before that. Wasn't Anderson like option 10?
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Funny that DePaul and SJU lock up the two biggest TV markets in the BE, and have been the two consistently worst teams. Maybe they figure they’ll be in as long as the conference exists, and that has led to complacency and/or a higher tolerance for incompetence.
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Leitao did lead them to their first overall .500 record and most wins in conference since 2006-07. He makes $1.3 million, which would be near the bottom of the coaches at P6 schools.
A contract extention isn't a horrendous idea considering.
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My initial thought was that their AD might finally be on the way out after this year, and this was her way of ensuring her friend would have job security once a new AD would be hired. That's just my speculation however.
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I came up with this explanation the other day, basically we are making the mistake of thinking that DePaul places any value on a winning basketball program.
In effect it's like looking at what Loria did when he owned the Marlins. From a fan perspective, we expected the value to be placed on winning. But from Loria's perspective, he valued inflating the value of the franchise and cashing out. Winning was only incidental to that effort (and in some cases detrimental to maximizing profit, which was his actual goal). So evaluating any of Loria's actions through the lens of trying to win was futile.
DePaul has demonstrated for years that whatever its objective with its mens hoops program is, winning is not a critical element of it. My best guess is that they view the benefit that hoops can bring being the Flutie Effect at a maximum and being mentioned on national TV a bunch by riding the Big East's coattails as the doormat of the league at a minimum, and they think the cost of investment to have a shot at a Flutie Effect season far outweighs the probability of succeeding, so they're fine with being stomped because they get mentioned and that's cool enough. I don't know, but I do know that whatever their goals are, winning is only incidental to furthering them.
Or... I suppose they could just be so incompetent that they think that what they're doing is fielding the best possible program and have no idea that they're terrible. But I'm guessing it's not that.
+2 (one for each citing of the Flutie Effect)
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I think a College Sportswriter tweeted they thought it signaled DePaul wanting to show a recruit that the coach would be there awhile.
In this case, is that Good or Bad.
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+2 (one for each citing of the Flutie Effect)
I was at that game!
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My initial thought was that their AD might finally be on the way out after this year, and this was her way of ensuring her friend would have job security once a new AD would be hired. That's just my speculation however.
Honestly, that would mean this is very good news. If anything is done with the idea of JLP leaving, that should make DePaul fans happy.
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Honestly, that would mean this is very good news. If anything is done with the idea of JLP leaving, that should make DePaul fans happy.
Fans? Plural?
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Fans? Plural?
Gotta be a typo.
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No doubt but they were certainly embarrassed before that. Wasn't Anderson like option 10?
The AD targeted Hurley, the General Counsel, and President targeted Moser, Cleuss wanted the job but felt jilted because of the chaos. Anderson was a solid fallback/compromise candidate. The embarrassment wasn't getting rejected (Hurley wasn't going there), it was the way the AD and GC were conducting two separate searches.
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The AD targeted Hurley, the General Counsel, and President targeted Moser, Cleuss wanted the job but felt jilted because of the chaos. Anderson was a solid fallback/compromise candidate. The embarrassment wasn't getting rejected (Hurley wasn't going there), it was the way the AD and GC were conducting two separate searches.
Gotcha. Maybe I was thinking of the search after Lavin then?
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Gotcha. Maybe I was thinking of the search after Lavin then?
No, that was all about getting Mullin. In hindsight...
The recent search was a cluster because of the warring factions and megadonor Mike Repole's interview on WFAN going after the GC and President.
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No doubt but they were certainly embarrassed before that. Wasn't Anderson like option 10?
Fleeting embarrassment at most. If you get turned down by a woman for a date, but two weeks later a much better woman says sure....take the embarrassment lumps short term.
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A once-great basketball program just can't attract a solid basketball coach because no one wants the job.
This latest episode just shows how far DePaul has fallen in the college basketball world.
It is important to the Big East to have stronger and competitive basketball programs in both the Chicago and New York markets.
Before that happens, the DePaul administration is going to have to take a long, hard look at the school's athletic program and make some decisions on the way forward. If it does not, the big time donors will have to apply pressure to put changes into place.
Go Warriors!
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Fleeting embarrassment at most. If you get turned down by a woman for a date, but two weeks later a much better woman says sure....take the embarrassment lumps short term.
I believe I was actually thinking about DePaul's last search in hindsight.
That being said idk what's with this forum and dating analogies lately but if I'm very publicly in a shouting match with my wingman about with initial woman to approach so that everyone knows how dysfunctional our relationship is to the point the whole bar stops and stares at us I'd say that's embarrassment that sticks with you.
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Before that happens, the DePaul administration is going to have to take a long, hard look at the school's athletic program and make some decisions on the way forward. If it does not, the big time donors will have to apply pressure to put changes into place.
Go Warriors!
The problem is, they have, and they've let JLP run it as she sees fit. They have a successful WBB team, a good softball program, good soccer teams. Who needs MBB? They have a completely wrong mindset and that wont change unless the AD does.
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A once-great basketball program just can't attract a solid basketball coach because no one wants the job.
This latest episode just shows how far DePaul has fallen in the college basketball world.
It is important to the Big East to have stronger and competitive basketball programs in both the Chicago and New York markets.
Before that happens, the DePaul administration is going to have to take a long, hard look at the school's athletic program and make some decisions on the way forward. If it does not, the big time donors will have to apply pressure to put changes into place.
Go Warriors!
DePaul has big-time donors?
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It is important to the Big East to have stronger and competitive basketball programs in both the Chicago and New York markets.
Maybe BEast needs to replace DePaul with RuPaul.
Wouldn't be any bigger drag on the conference.
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It is important to the Big East to have stronger and competitive basketball programs in both the Chicago and New York markets.
I keep hearing this. I don't see much evidence to support it.
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I keep hearing this. I don't see much evidence to support it.
I think it'd be a big benefit but not a huge detriment if it doesn't happen. Less about the market and more the fact that they're the two largest schools by far in the conference
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I keep hearing this. I don't see much evidence to support it.
Agreed. DePaul has an awful BE history, and SJU hasn’t been consistently strong since the 20th century. Somehow, though, the conference keeps doing fine with strong teams in places like Philly, Milwaukee, Indy, Omaha and the like.
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I think it'd be a big benefit but not a huge detriment if it doesn't happen. Less about the market and more the fact that they're the two largest schools by far in the conference
St. John's and DePaul may be in the two biggest cities in the conference but they aren't the biggest draws in their cities. Chicago is dominated by the Big Ten and Notre Dame, New York by Syracuse, Notre Dame and alumni from so many other schools, especially the Big Ten. DePaul or SJU winning isn't going to move the needle that much when it comes to ratings, which is what it's all about in college sports today.
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St. John's and DePaul may be in the two biggest cities in the conference but they aren't the biggest draws in their cities. Chicago is dominated by the Big Ten and Notre Dame, New York by Syracuse, Notre Dame and alumni from so many other schools, especially the Big Ten. DePaul or SJU winning isn't going to move the needle that much when it comes to ratings, which is what it's all about in college sports today.
I actually think NYC is a city that is historically up for grabs. Syracuse definitely does well today but they are one retirement away from having to scrap like everyone else. Pitt & UConn are great examples of that.
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Major sports have had mixed results lately in America's biggest cities.
New York fans saw three professional teams -- the Giants, Jets and Knicks -- finish in last place after completing their most recent full seasons. The Rangers were second to last in their division. Only the Yankees, Nets and Islanders made the postseason.
St. John's made the NCAA tournament for the first time in five seasons -- but for only the 3rd time in the past 17 years.
The story in Chicago is similar: Bears and Cubs good, Blackhawks mediocre, White Sox, Bulls and Blue Demons terrible.
The same goes for LA -- with the Rams, Chargers and Dodgers all playing well, the Clippers being better than average, but everyone else (Ducks, Angels, Lakers, Kings, Bruins, Trojans) mostly falling below expectations.
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Major sports have had mixed results lately in America's biggest cities.
New York fans saw three professional teams -- the Giants, Jets and Knicks -- finish in last place after completing their most recent full seasons. The Rangers were second to last in their division. Only the Yankees, Nets and Islanders made the postseason.
St. John's made the NCAA tournament for the first time in five seasons -- but for only the 3rd time in the past 17 years.
The story in Chicago is similar: Bears and Cubs good, Blackhawks mediocre, White Sox, Bulls and Blue Demons terrible.
The same goes for LA -- with the Rams, Chargers and Dodgers all playing well, the Clippers being better than average, but everyone else (Ducks, Angels, Lakers, Kings, Bruins, Trojans) mostly falling below expectations.
Forget Loyola made the final four a couple years ago? Or by major were you only referring to major conferences?
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Silly reason to give a coach an extension for that reason, especially a coach with Leitao’s record.
I hope you see the absolutely rich irony in this part of your post Rico.
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I hope you see the absolutely rich irony in this part of your post Rico.
He’s been at DePaul the last 4 years and still doesn’t have a winning record in conference. To be fair, he inherited a bigger mess than Wojo.
He is suspended for the first three games to start the season and the program got put on probation on his watch.
Very comparable to many Big East coaches
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Forget Loyola made the final four a couple years ago? Or by major were you only referring to major conferences?
It's debatable whether Loyola counts as a major sport in Chicago. Although I believe they outdrew DePaul last season in average home attendance.
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It's debatable whether Loyola counts as a major sport in Chicago. Although I believe they outdrew DePaul last season in average home attendance.
When they made the FF it seemed the whole city was covered in maroon and gold. Certainly not major as a regular season team
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It's debatable whether Loyola counts as a major sport in Chicago. Although I believe they outdrew DePaul last season in average home attendance.
It is also debatable whether DePaul counts as a major sport in Chicago. I’m guessing there are minor league teams in various sports that outdraw them.
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It is also debatable whether DePaul counts as a major sport in Chicago. I’m guessing there are minor league teams in various sports that outdraw them.
Just because I was super curious here was most the teams I could think of.
Depaul claims that they average 3,806 but I believe they were caught including tickets they gave away to charities and such
Chicago Dogs: 3,623
Kane County Cougars: 5,228
Joliet Slammers: 2,010
Windy City Thunderbolts: 1,671
Chicago Wolves: 7,929
Schaumburg Boomers: 3,604
Chicago Fire: 14,806
Chicago Sky: 6,749
Chicago Steel: 1075
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I just read the below in a CBS article about 50 things to know about the upcoming season. Why give him a raise and a longer contract, not like anyone is going to try and hire him away. DU has improved slightly under Leitao but he doesn't deserve an extension. Not a word about it on the DU board.
Some of this most confounding news of the off season came to light just a few days ago: DePaul issuing a press release that it was, in fact, in the midst of restructuring Dave Leitao's contract in an effort to provide him a raise and an extension. DePaul is 48-82 the past four seasons under Leitao, not to mention the program was brought up tangentially in the FBI's findings into corruption in recruiting. And he'll be serving a three-game suspension in November because of NCAA sanctions. I mean, what?
DePaul had a respectable team last year and will have a respectable team this year. Leitao has been making some progress recruiting, so it makes sense to give him the patina of a contract extension.
I also noticed DePaul is playing University of Chicago this year. Will be interesting to see what kind of attendance they get for that game. If all goes well, maybe Chicago will want to consider rejoining the Big Ten.
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Just because I was super curious here was most the teams I could think of.
Depaul claims that they average 3,806 but I believe they were caught including tickets they gave away to charities and such
Chicago Dogs: 3,623
Kane County Cougars: 5,228
Joliet Slammers: 2,010
Windy City Thunderbolts: 1,671
Chicago Wolves: 7,929
Schaumburg Boomers: 3,604
Chicago Fire: 14,806
Chicago Sky: 6,749
Chicago Steel: 1075
That isn’t something they are “caught” doing. Teams report tickets issued, not tickets sold. Standard operating procedure for decades. Every stop I have been at in my career either directly working there or as a sponsor, that issued tickets that was the case reported, including MU, IU, Kansas, UCLA, Oklahoma, Stanford, NHL and MLB, NFL. I guarantee you those others listed here also are reporting tickets issues in the system, not all of which are sold.
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DePaul had a respectable team last year and will have a respectable team this year. Leitao has been making some progress recruiting, so it makes sense to give him the patina of a contract extension.
Brother Herm, DePaul should be more than "DePaul respectable." If the Big East is going to be relevant in Chicago -- and it should be -- DePaul is going to have to be one of the Big Boys in the Conference -- men's basketball wise.
Until Jean Lenti Ponsetto is put out to pasture, that's not going to happen.
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Brother Herm, DePaul should be more than "DePaul respectable." If the Big East is going to be relevant in Chicago -- and it should be -- DePaul is going to have to be one of the Big Boys in the Conference -- men's basketball wise.
Until Jean Lenti Ponsetto is put out to pasture, that's not going to happen.
I'd be curious if there's enough alumni in Chicagoland from other big east schools that there's not enough pressure on Depaul to up their game from Fox to control the Chicago market.
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I'd be curious if there's enough alumni in Chicagoland from other big east schools that there's not enough pressure on Depaul to up their game from Fox to control the Chicago market.
Do TV networks really have the ability to "pressure" individual teams to do better? What power do they have to do that?
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Do TV networks really have the ability to "pressure" individual teams to do better? What power do they have to do that?
Maybe pressure is the wrong word. I just figure that if Fox was going to invest in the BE with the expectation that there's a huge following in two of the top 3 DMAs then they'd be vocal about their displeasure that the two teams in those consistently suck.
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MU 82 -- I tried, but I still speak about sitting on crapty sheets.
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My guess is that, in the process of negotiating the deal, TV networks pressure the league to put out a product that will draw the eyes. In turn, the league (or the other university Presidents and ADs) might pressure the schools that aren't carrying their weight.
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Have to admit I have little interest in what motivates DePaul. Someone will always be on the bottom and it is better them than someone closer to Milwaukee.
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Do TV networks really have the ability to "pressure" individual teams to do better? What power do they have to do that?
To some degree, yes.
The NFL wants nothing more than for the New York Giants to be annually relevant. Ditto for the Bears and the Rams. Can they force them to? No. But can there be backroom/backside pressure? Of course. Their ratings would be off the charts if all three were good simultaneously.
Want to make DePaul good? Drop a hint to the powers that be that JLP's days need to be numbered.
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Do TV networks really have the ability to "pressure" individual teams to do better? What power do they have to do that?
Little if any. If that were the case the Knicks would actually be relevant.
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To some degree, yes.
The NFL wants nothing more than for the New York Giants to be annually relevant. Ditto for the Bears and the Rams. Can they force them to? No. But can there be backroom/backside pressure? Of course. Their ratings would be off the charts if all three were good simultaneously.
Want to make DePaul good? Drop a hint to the powers that be that JLP's days need to be numbered.
The problem is that DePaul (and JLP) can use the following "examples" of ways of attempting to boost DePaul's men's basketball program - 1.) Hiring a coach with previous success at DePaul, 2.) Moving away from Allstate Arena, which had poor attendance and was far away from campus, 3.) Moving into a brand new facility that will be mainly for DePaul Basketball near downtown Chicago.
Now, for rebuttals, 1.) DePaul hired a coach that left them and failed miserably at an ACC school (and future national champion), after it balked at hiring the likes of several other young coaches (Bobby Hurley/Bryce Drew). That same coach has still yet to make a tournament, was involved in an off-court recruiting scandal and is now suspended three games this year. 2.) Yes, they moved away from Rosemont, but - no matter where you are - if you continue to lose, people do not show up. 3.) the new arena is still not close to to campus, and, as stated, still struggles with attendance.
So, for perception appearances, DePaul can argue it has made necessary steps to "compete" in the Big East moving forward. Unfortunately, any one that follows an iota of college basketball can recognize that these steps were simply buffers attempting to cover larger deficits the program has had, and will continue to have.
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Neither the Big East nor Fox Sports is going to pressure DePaul to fire it's athletic director.
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Neither the Big East nor Fox Sports is going to pressure DePaul to fire it's athletic director.
No, but both DePaul fans might. :P
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No, but both DePaul fans might. :P
All 800 are going to write strongly worded letters.
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The problem is that DePaul (and JLP) can use the following "examples" of ways of attempting to boost DePaul's men's basketball program - 1.) Hiring a coach with previous success at DePaul, 2.) Moving away from Allstate Arena, which had poor attendance and was far away from campus, 3.) Moving into a brand new facility that will be mainly for DePaul Basketball near downtown Chicago.
Now, for rebuttals, 1.) DePaul hired a coach that left them and failed miserably at an ACC school (and future national champion), after it balked at hiring the likes of several other young coaches (Bobby Hurley/Bryce Drew). That same coach has still yet to make a tournament, was involved in an off-court recruiting scandal and is now suspended three games this year. 2.) Yes, they moved away from Rosemont, but - no matter where you are - if you continue to lose, people do not show up. 3.) the new arena is still not close to to campus, and, as stated, still struggles with attendance.
So, for perception appearances, DePaul can argue it has made necessary steps to "compete" in the Big East moving forward. Unfortunately, any one that follows an iota of college basketball can recognize that these steps were simply buffers attempting to cover larger deficits the program has had, and will continue to have.
If I was grading JLP, the "examples" are worth 20 points (19.5 points for moving away from Rosemont and 0.5 points for everything else) while the "rebuttal" is worth 2.8 million points. Build it and they will come may work for cornfield baseball in rural Dubuque County, Iowa but it doesn't work for reviving a dormant Big East basketball program.
Not a DePaul grad but if I was, I'd be happier if DePaul staked its rebuild on calling Loyola and asking if they could borrow Sister Jean and her direct line to heaven rather than sticking with JLP. It just isn't working and the longer they stick with JLP, the more ignorant they show themselves to be.
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Now this is funny........great timing as always Depaul!
https://twitter.com/sam_vecenie/status/1177053554235699200?s=21
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All 800 are going to write strongly worded letters.
800 fans? Trying to be funny?
No way all 800 fans would be motivated to write. ;)
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800 fans? Trying to be funny?
No way all 800 fans would be motivated to write. ;)
I mean, they would probably email.
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Unbelieveable that he was granted a waiver...
Jon Rothstein
@JonRothstein
10s
Source: DePaul's Charlie Moore has received a waiver from the NCAA and is immediately eligible to play this season. HUGE news for the Blue Demons.
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His father is sick right? They usually are pretty thorough about those cases.
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His father is sick right? They usually are pretty thorough about those cases.
They've been granting everyone. Donnie Tillman got an immediate waiver going from Utah to UNLV and he's from Michigan. Rylan Bergersen transferred further away from his Boise, Idaho home going from BYU to Central Arkansas and was granted immediate eligibility.
At this point, honestly, I'd almost be more surprised if Joey Hauser was denied than if he was approved. There's seemingly no rhyme nor reason, they are just granting to anyone who asks.
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They've been granting everyone. Donnie Tillman got an immediate waiver going from Utah to UNLV and he's from Michigan. Rylan Bergersen transferred further away from his Boise, Idaho home going from BYU to Central Arkansas and was granted immediate eligibility.
At this point, honestly, I'd almost be more surprised if Joey Hauser was denied than if he was approved. There's seemingly no rhyme nor reason, they are just granting to anyone who asks.
Perhaps they are devoting all their legal/regulatory resources to the payment issue, and just rubber-stamping waiver requests.
Might be a good time for Chris Otule to reapply....
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They've been granting everyone. Donnie Tillman got an immediate waiver going from Utah to UNLV and he's from Michigan. Rylan Bergersen transferred further away from his Boise, Idaho home going from BYU to Central Arkansas and was granted immediate eligibility.
At this point, honestly, I'd almost be more surprised if Joey Hauser was denied than if he was approved. There's seemingly no rhyme nor reason, they are just granting to anyone who asks.
Perhaps they are just sick of the constant bitching and unjust cries from people when they dare to make a decision they don’t agree with. Just throwing their hands up to say, ok...you want this mess...have at it.
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Perhaps they are just sick of the constant bitching and unjust cries from people when they dare to make a decision they don’t agree with. Just throwing their hands up to say, ok...you want this mess...have at it.
Yay!!!
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They've been granting everyone. Donnie Tillman got an immediate waiver going from Utah to UNLV and he's from Michigan. Rylan Bergersen transferred further away from his Boise, Idaho home going from BYU to Central Arkansas and was granted immediate eligibility.
At this point, honestly, I'd almost be more surprised if Joey Hauser was denied than if he was approved. There's seemingly no rhyme nor reason, they are just granting to anyone who asks.
Run off or other mitigating circumstances are also deciding factors.
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Per Evan Daniels, DePaul just landed Keon Edwards. Top 50.