MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: jesmu84 on August 12, 2019, 08:09:06 PM
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If you have any friends or family there, I'd suggest telling them to leave as soon as possible based on the video leaked out today:
https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/cpj9g3/disturbing_video_taken_in_shenzhen_just_across/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
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This is the inevitable ending right?
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This does not look good.
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This is the inevitable ending right?
Of Hong Kong or the world?
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Hong Kong. You really think anyone outside is going to do anything beyond the symbolic if this comes to a violent end?
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I thought FBM was talking about the inevitable ending of this thread.
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Thoughts and Prayers Hong Kong. Thoughts and Prayers
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Hong Kong. You really think anyone outside is going to do anything beyond the symbolic if this comes to a violent end?
Just checking.
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It used to be the job of Western leaders to stand up for freedom.
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It used to be the job of Western leaders to stand up for freedom.
Ours has a different job now.
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Politics and of course nothing will be done
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Hong Kong was an incredibly unique place. Geographically, ideologically, and most importantly, culturally. It’s been a steady decline in the latter over the last 20 years and it appears China got fully bored with the gradual approach. I am supposed to travel there in late September for a large and important trade show. That’s very much in question now. Beyond that, my industry is one of many that if HK is to become fully China controlled, will cease to exist there.
Funny enough, I write this from Singapore, which reminds me of a lot of what I love about HK. Though not as free wheeling and fun
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Politics and of course nothing will be done
Oh shut up. You cry more than anyone, yet you join in every. single. time.
You don't get to play it both ways. Hit your report button, and shut up if it bothers you so damn much.
***Spoiler alert: It doesn't bother you one bit, it excites you***
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Ours has a different job now.
Not to mention he’s from the East Coast.
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Not to mention he’s from the East Coast.
Took me a minute on this one :(
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Hong Kong was an incredibly unique place. Geographically, ideologically, and most importantly, culturally. It’s been a steady decline in the latter over the last 20 years and it appears China got fully bored with the gradual approach. I am supposed to travel there in late September for a large and important trade show. That’s very much in question now. Beyond that, my industry is one of many that if HK is to become fully China controlled, will cease to exist there.
Funny enough, I write this from Singapore, which reminds me of a lot of what I love about HK. Though not as free wheeling and fun
Yep... key word is "Was".
I'm actually surprised it took 22 years for this to happen... that the people didn't get pissed off like this and that China hasn't broken their agreement.
Culturally, the place is already ruined by the mainlanders. I expect it to be nothing more than a "free trade zone" within a couple years and then full control not long after that.
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So my statement wasn’t meant to be political. There really is little western leaders can do. This isn’t Russia, with a relatively small and one dimensional economy. China is huge and intertwined with the west even more than it was during the Tienamin Square days. That’s why I think these protesters have been heading down the wrong path for awhile now.
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It used to be the job of Western leaders to stand up for freedom.
Damned if ya do, damned if ya don't I guess.
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So my statement wasn’t meant to be political. There really is little western leaders can do. This isn’t Russia, with a relatively small and one dimensional economy. China is huge and intertwined with the west even more than it was during the Tienamin Square days. That’s why I think these protesters have been heading down the wrong path for awhile now.
Curious as to what the right path is? If anyone in the world today is playing 4 dimensional chess its China. It may not have wanted a trade war but if it's got one on its hands it might as well use it as cover to absorb HK and its billions in GDP potential. Only way to prevent it is to expose it but I'm sure even that wont work because society is slowly losing the will to help each other
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Took me a minute on this one :(
Happen a lot these days?
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I agree that the surprise is that it took so long. China is powerful enough that there really are no options.
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Curious as to what the right path is? If anyone in the world today is playing 4 dimensional chess its China. It may not have wanted a trade war but if it's got one on its hands it might as well use it as cover to absorb HK and its billions in GDP potential. Only way to prevent it is to expose it but I'm sure even that wont work because society is slowly losing the will to help each other
Anyone in Hong Kong who doesn't have an escape plan of some sort isn't really a good student of history.
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Any y'all havin' bagels and lox dis mornin', hey?
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Top page of reddit right now:
(http://preview.redd.it/qvzn5ux5d7g31.jpg?width=556&auto=webp&s=62f0fc7b6323ebb103acd5bbe38768a1c7ff9dc7)
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Hong Kong was an incredibly unique place. Geographically, ideologically, and most importantly, culturally. It’s been a steady decline in the latter over the last 20 years and it appears China got fully bored with the gradual approach. I am supposed to travel there in late September for a large and important trade show. That’s very much in question now. Beyond that, my industry is one of many that if HK is to become fully China controlled, will cease to exist there.
Funny enough, I write this from Singapore, which reminds me of a lot of what I love about HK. Though not as free wheeling and fun
I was supposed to go this fall but it got postponed to 2020 because I had more pressing issues with customer in Singapore, Malaysia and India.
I was looking forward to going to HK but forgot about the protests.
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Anyone in Hong Kong who doesn't have an escape plan of some sort isn't really a good student of history.
Rather difficult to "escape" when HKG is shut down.
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Any y'all havin' bagels and lox dis mornin', hey?
Just had dim sum for lunch.
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I had an office there for 10 years, been there twice in last six weeks and just booked tickets to go there. While this is a serious issue, HK is not going anywhere. There is a fair amount of pay to protest going on and Hong Kongese are pissed and embarrassed.
This may end ugly, but HK will survive.
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I had an office there for 10 years, been there twice in last six weeks and just booked tickets to go there. While this is a serious issue, HK is not going anywhere. There is a fair amount of pay to protest going on and Hong Kongese are pissed and embarrassed.
This may end ugly, but HK will survive.
Please elaborate.
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I had an office there for 10 years, been there twice in last six weeks and just booked tickets to go there. While this is a serious issue, HK is not going anywhere. There is a fair amount of pay to protest going on and Hong Kongese are pissed and embarrassed.
This may end ugly, but HK will survive.
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Joe
Shanghai has certainly eclipsed HK as the financial and commercial nexus of China - a concerted effort by Beijing.
I agree with you, though, that HK will always be a unique part of China through redefinition and adaptation. The sheer will of the Cantonese will keep it relevant and vital.
But what the f#ck do we know. We have only lived there. I might have lived in HK twice and speak Hokkien but guys like Jockey are the Old China Hands of Scoop. Hell, Jockey hits the Golden Dragon at the local strip mall in Burlington at least once a month. A bowl of hot n' sour and he's ready to weigh in on China policy with a vengeance!
By the way, all of our China projects are on hold right now. But I think it's temporary and am confident this will result in a great outcome for the US. It's about time someone stood up to the Mandarins.
We need to talk this over grappas at Va Bene in Lan Kwai Fong. You buy.
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Please elaborate.
Old stuff in HK.
When I last lived in HK Jimmy Lai was able to muster huge crowds in Central. Sadly, a lot of folks were more passionate about the paycheck than they were about Jimmy's agenda.
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Joe
Shanghai has certainly eclipsed HK as the financial and commercial nexus of China - a concerted effort by Beijing.
I agree with you, though, that HK will always be a unique part of China through redefinition and adaptation. The sheer will of the Cantonese will keep it relevant and vital.
But what the f#ck do we know. We have only lived there. I might have lived in HK twice and speak Hokkien but guys like Jockey are the Old China Hands of Scoop. Hell, Jockey hits the Golden Dragon at the local strip mall in Burlington at least once a month. A bowl of hot n' sour and he's ready to weigh in on China policy with a vengeance!
By the way, all of our China projects are on hold right now. But I think it's temporary and am confident this will result in a great outcome for the US. It's about time someone stood up to the Mandarins.
We need to talk this over grappas at Va Bene in Lan Kwai Fong. You buy.
I have not said one word about China in this thread - not ONE SINGLE word.
You are a pathetic, little man (similar to chico) who has an obsession to make every thread about you and who can only find joy bragging about himself.
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Crash
Hong Kong has had a great run and no competition until China became the China of today. HK will never be the same, had changed a great deal since I first went there in 1985, but it will remain a world class city.
VaBene on me is done deal.
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Joe
Shanghai has certainly eclipsed HK as the financial and commercial nexus of China - a concerted effort by Beijing.
I agree with you, though, that HK will always be a unique part of China through redefinition and adaptation. The sheer will of the Cantonese will keep it relevant and vital.
But what the f#ck do we know. We have only lived there. I might have lived in HK twice and speak Hokkien but guys like Jockey are the Old China Hands of Scoop. Hell, Jockey hits the Golden Dragon at the local strip mall in Burlington at least once a month. A bowl of hot n' sour and he's ready to weigh in on China policy with a vengeance!
By the way, all of our China projects are on hold right now. But I think it's temporary and am confident this will result in a great outcome for the US. It's about time someone stood up to the Mandarins.
We need to talk this over grappas at Va Bene in Lan Kwai Fong. You buy.
I bet you dunked in High School too.
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Benny
Many in HK believe that special interest groups are paying young people to protest. The original protests were over a valid issue and those protesters were there for a cause. As the protests have grown, the reason for protests has been moving target and many HK citizens believe that young people are being paid to show up and protest. Have heard that some special interest groups are buying up to $1k usd per day to organizers of these different protests.
All that said, things definitely have become far more serious of an issue for Beijing. As many noted on here, HK is not the same place as it was pre '97 and that is life. HK was the only game in town for a long time and Beijing did an outstanding job opening other cities to compete with HK.
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Benny
Many in HK believe that special interest groups are paying young people to protest. The original protests were over a valid issue and those protesters were there for a cause. As the protests have grown, the reason for protests has been moving target and many HK citizens believe that young people are being paid to show up and protest. Have heard that some special interest groups are buying up to $1k usd per day to organizers of these different protests.
All that said, things definitely have become far more serious of an issue for Beijing. As many noted on here, HK is not the same place as it was pre '97 and that is life. HK was the only game in town for a long time and Beijing did an outstanding job opening other cities to compete with HK.
This is literally a China State Media talking point, but go on.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/13/world/asia/hong-kong-protests-china.html
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This is literally a China State Media talking point, but go on.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/13/world/asia/hong-kong-protests-china.html
Hey man, didn't you know that people are willing to risk life and limb for the possibility of 1k USD?
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Guys
Not going to argue over the protests with you. Feel confident in my words, but sure you two know better.
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Guys
Not going to argue over the protests with you. Feel confident in my words, but sure you two know better.
That isn't the problem here. Simply having been to HK does not make you an expert. Nor does regularly doing business there.
I'm not claiming to be an expert either, but you and "Crash" certainly aren't either.
Spare me the reply.
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I traveled to SoCal last month.
If anyone wants the inside scoop on what it's like to be an Angeleno, hit me up.
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While trying to avoid the snark, and while acknowledging these things are always complicated and multi dimensional, I don't understand how...
(A) "HK has long played a unique role in that part of the world, and will continue to in the face of Chinese pressure, largely due to the character and will of the people there."
and
(B) "These are just kids getting paid to protest and they are over-exaggerating the degree that China is steamrolling what makes HK unique."
... can both be true
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MUBurrow
Yes, both can be true.
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That isn't the problem here. Simply having been to HK does not make you an expert. Nor does regularly doing business there.
I'm not claiming to be an expert either, but you and "Crash" certainly aren't either.
Spare me the reply.
i don't believe goose and/or crash was claiming any expertise, but i would take their opinions over yours in just about anything hard guy. if someone is doing business over there, he better have the pulse of the nation or they are going to get their chit handed to them. just because you may not agree with their assessment, doesn't make it wrong, nor worthy of a flippant, arsinine response.
it is responses like these that lead to decent topics being shut down.
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This is literally a China State Media talking point, but go on.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/13/world/asia/hong-kong-protests-china.html
the nytimes is the fox news of the other side-i wouldn't let my bird chit on it
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Benny
Many in HK believe that special interest groups are paying young people to protest. The original protests were over a valid issue and those protesters were there for a cause. As the protests have grown, the reason for protests has been moving target and many HK citizens believe that young people are being paid to show up and protest. Have heard that some special interest groups are buying up to $1k usd per day to organizers of these different protests.
All that said, things definitely have become far more serious of an issue for Beijing. As many noted on here, HK is not the same place as it was pre '97 and that is life. HK was the only game in town for a long time and Beijing did an outstanding job opening other cities to compete with HK.
F'ing millennials ruin everything
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the nytimes is the fox news of the other side-i wouldn't let my bird chit on it
nytimes? What's nytimes?
Oh, you mean the Failing NY Times!
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Crash
Hong Kong has had a great run and no competition until China became the China of today. HK will never be the same, had changed a great deal since I first went there in 1985, but it will remain a world class city.
VaBene on me is done deal.
Yea, but what the f#ck do we know about China, eh?
Heads down on Alaska and Sri Lanka these days but will likely p[ass through HK in Q4 to status our Hainan projects now on hold. Let's synch so we can have a Veal Summit in Lan Kwai Fong.
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It's like we have our own resident 45.
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While trying to avoid the snark, and while acknowledging these things are always complicated and multi dimensional, I don't understand how...
(A) "HK has long played a unique role in that part of the world, and will continue to in the face of Chinese pressure, largely due to the character and will of the people there."
and
(B) "These are just kids getting paid to protest and they are over-exaggerating the degree that China is steamrolling what makes HK unique."
... can both be true
The beauty of Hong Kong has been its ability to reinvent itself continuously since 1842.
For insight into the nature and character of more recent civil unrest in HK you need to understand Jimmy Lai and how he orchestrated a public posture towards Beijing while still a Crown Colony.
As with all things, discernment lies within the folds and seams. The press reports the obvious; China is far more nuanced than that.
But what the f#ck do I know? I only speak Chinese.
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The beauty of Hong Kong has been its ability to reinvent itself continuously since 1842.
For insight into the nature and character of more recent civil unrest in HK you need to understand Jimmy Lai and how he orchestrated a public posture towards Beijing while still a Crown Colony.
As with all things, discernment lies within the folds and seams. The press reports the obvious; China is far more nuanced than that.
But what the f#ck do I know? I only speak Chinese.
LOL! Are you ever not triggered?
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That isn't the problem here. Simply having been to HK does not make you an expert. Nor does regularly doing business there.
I'm not claiming to be an expert either, but you and "Crash" certainly aren't either.
Spare me the reply.
Are you for real?
Oh, and in before the lock.
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I used to watch Hong Kong Phooey. Does that qualify me as an expert?
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MUBurrow
Yes, both can be true.
Appreciate your perspective as a person that has been involved with HK for many years. I’m glad you offered these insights. Travel safe, hope things smooth out before you get back.
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I used to watch Hong Kong Phooey. Does that qualify me as an expert?
I speak Spanish.
If you're looking for some insight about what's really behind the Catalan independence movement, I'm your man.
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Cheeks
You got it.
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I speak Spanish.
If you're looking for some insight about what's really behind the Catalan independence movement, I'm your man.
You are officially, expertly qualified to tell us all how it really is in any and all Spanish speaking country's politics and economics. I mean for Christ's sake, you speak Spanish but what the hell would you know?!
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You are officially, expertly qualified to tell us all how it really is in any and all Spanish speaking country's politics and economics. I mean for Christ's sake, you speak Spanish but what the hell would you know?!
An equally amusing part of all this, is that English is one of two official languages of Hong Kong. Meaning that we are all Hong Kong experts. For f%cks sake.
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I have friends who have lived or spent a great deal of time working in places like Germany, Dubai, Japan, China, India, etc., etc.,. In my experience those people have been keenly aware of those country's politics, customs, etc. I've learned a lot from them.
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Are you for real?
Oh, and in before the lock.
Guy spends all of his life in Oconomowoc and thinks because he eats fried tofu at the local Jade Garden he knows Asia.
How you say, so stoopee?
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I have friends who have lived or spent a great deal of time working in places like Germany, Dubai, Japan, China, India, etc., etc.,. In my experience those people have been keenly aware of those country's politics, customs, etc. I've learned a lot from them.
As always, Mr Bernstein nails it.
By the way, how's the son doing in Tokyo? Goddam but I miss living there.
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I have friends who have lived or spent a great deal of time working in places like Germany, Dubai, Japan, China, India, etc., etc.,. In my experience those people have been keenly aware of those country's politics, customs, etc. I've learned a lot from them.
+ 1
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Guy spends all of his life in Oconomowoc and thinks because he eats fried tofu at the local Jade Garden he knows Asia.
How you say, so stoopee?
I hear that mocking people makes you even more of a man than being an egomaniacal braggart does.
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Lenny
Spot on. As you have a good understanding of my family and it’s history in Asia, I could not agree with you more. The education I have gained over thirty plus years in the region is something I am very proud of.
While I was a very poor student in school, I embraced the knowledge of both the locals in places that I have worked as well as the ex pats.
My family story means a lot to me because of the risks that we took to conduct business in Asia. I/we were not a big company or worked for one, but we rolled the dice very early on the importance that China would mean in global economy.
I can assure you that I am not an expert on China, but by hook or crook I have managed to run a company in HK and China for over 25 years. Nothing lasts forever and chasing new frontiers, but hopefully with a bit more knowledge than I had when we entered China.
My Dad had a lot of great gifts, but his ability to listen and learn remained a core belief in his life until he passed away at 90.
I really value posters like yourself that offer knowledge based off of your experiences in life. Wish there more Lenny’s in the world.
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I have friends who have lived or spent a great deal of time working in places like Germany, Dubai, Japan, China, India, etc., etc.,. In my experience those people have been keenly aware of those country's politics, customs, etc. I've learned a lot from them.
I agree.
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I have friends who have lived or spent a great deal of time working in places like Germany, Dubai, Japan, China, India, etc., etc.,. In my experience those people have been keenly aware of those country's politics, customs, etc. I've learned a lot from them.
I don't doubt those friends are more keenly aware than a person who has not traveled to those places.
I also suspect they don't portray themselves as experts on the machinations of those nations, much less claim to have special insight into their inner workings because they speak the local language.
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Guy spends all of his life in Oconomowoc and thinks because he eats fried tofu at the local Jade Garden he knows Asia.
How you say, so stoopee?
Keefer, keeping it classy as always.
Like I said, it's like we have our own resident 45 right here on Scoop.
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Goose .. I'm super no expert but I've stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.
I'd never be surprised that protesters are paid .. but from the videos it appears that there are hundreds of thousands of them .. someone said on the radio, 2 million. I can't fathom how any but a fraction are being paid?
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Topper
No Arby’s reference?
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Topper
No Arby’s reference?
There aren’t any Arby’s in Hong Kong. Which is probably part of the problem.
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Lenny Man is da tits, hey?
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As always, Mr Bernstein nails it.
By the way, how's the son doing in Tokyo? Goddam but I miss living there.
He's doing great, Crash - thanks for asking. He and his wife had a baby girl June 24th (Kaede, rhymes with Friday) and my wife and I were in Tokyo last month to meet her.
We now have 5 granddaughters - if you would have told me 40 yers ago that 70 and being a Grandpa was the best part of life I would have called you crazy - but there it is!
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i don't believe goose and/or crash was claiming any expertise, but i would take their opinions over yours in just about anything hard guy. if someone is doing business over there, he better have the pulse of the nation or they are going to get their chit handed to them. just because you may not agree with their assessment, doesn't make it wrong, nor worthy of a flippant, arsinine response.
it is responses like these that lead to decent topics being shut down.
As opposed to your nonsensical half-formed sentences and weak attempts at name calling. I'm not surprised you latch on to the old guys around here, being an old fart, yourself.
Clearly, you're not rocket surgeon.
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I don't doubt those friends are more keenly aware than a person who has not traveled to those places.
I also suspect they don't portray themselves as experts on the machinations of those nations, much less claim to have special insight into their inner workings because they speak the local language.
This is so on the nose that even Crash's Michigan pinky ring couldn't be closer to a booger
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As opposed to your nonsensical half-formed sentences and weak attempts at name calling. I'm not surprised you latch on to the old guys around here, being an old fart, yourself.
Clearly, you're not rocket surgeon.
I’m trying to take a calmer, more reasoned approach at discussions here. May I ask the same of you and others? Merely an ask.
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Are you for real?
Oh, and in before the lock.
I'm as real as it gets. I don't talk about myself here, just call out braggadocios dorks when I see them. Its awfully hard for them to handle.
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I’m trying to take a calmer, more reasoned approach at discussions here. May I ask the same of you and others? Merely an ask.
lmao. I'm glad you're saying so here, but maybe starting with the dimwit that started the name calling game would at least give the appearance of you being genuine.
Pray for me, Cheeks.
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Cheeks
Hards has been a jag off for quite some time. Not worth even discussing with him. He is an expert on all topics, similar to his buddies.
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Cheeks
Hards has been a jag off for quite some time. Not worth even discussing with him. He is an expert on all topics, similar to his buddies.
In my first post here, I specifically said I was not an expert. Just saying you guys aren't experts either has gotten all of your panties in a bunch.
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As opposed to your nonsensical half-formed sentences and weak attempts at name calling. I'm not surprised you latch on to the old guys around here, being an old fart, yourself.
Clearly, you're not rocket surgeon.
never claimed to be a rocket surgeon, it's a make pretend name...you get that right? so what is a "hards_alumni"? if it's not, nsfw
btw, your bigotry(ageism)on full display is shameful and that's putting it kindly. substitute any other group in there and this whole board would be erupting and very rightfully so. your youth and inexperience are on full display
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Hards
Take the time to read posts and not just who posted them. No crap that you are not an expert, no need to mention it again.
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Rocket
It is not youth on full display, it is a fxxkin idiot on full display.
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Lenny
Spot on. As you have a good understanding of my family and it’s history in Asia, I could not agree with you more. The education I have gained over thirty plus years in the region is something I am very proud of.
While I was a very poor student in school, I embraced the knowledge of both the locals in places that I have worked as well as the ex pats.
My family story means a lot to me because of the risks that we took to conduct business in Asia. I/we were not a big company or worked for one, but we rolled the dice very early on the importance that China would mean in global economy.
I can assure you that I am not an expert on China, but by hook or crook I have managed to run a company in HK and China for over 25 years. Nothing lasts forever and chasing new frontiers, but hopefully with a bit more knowledge than I had when we entered China.
My Dad had a lot of great gifts, but his ability to listen and learn remained a core belief in his life until he passed away at 90.
I really value posters like yourself that offer knowledge based off of your experiences in life. Wish there more Lenny’s in the world.
I agree you are deeply experienced in that region.
The thing is, there are people equally as experience (or more so), that will say the exact opposite of you. That "people being paid" is a Chinese propaganda talking point.
Without direct evidence of the protests being paid actors, such a stance is really a "conspiracy theory".
Not saying you are incorrect, but it is important to remember that it is a "well-informed" opinion, and can still be very wrong.
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never claimed to be a rocket surgeon, it's a make pretend name...you get that right? so what is a "hards_alumni"? if it's not, nsfw
btw, your bigotry(ageism)on full display is shameful and that's putting it kindly. substitute any other group in there and this whole board would be erupting and very rightfully so. your youth and inexperience are on full display
Oh, honey.
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Forgetful
I could be all wet, never said I was an expert. Simply stated my opinion.
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Rocket
It is not youth on full display, it is a fxxkin idiot on full display.
(https://media.tenor.com/images/d213cc0fadd5b0aa5d088c2b8cd6dc47/tenor.gif)
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Kant speek four da udder old farts, butt eye sport da commando look, hey?
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lmao. I'm glad you're saying so here, but maybe starting with the dimwit that started the name calling game would at least give the appearance of you being genuine.
Pray for me, Cheeks.
m
Someone recently said charity starts at home.
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m
Someone recently said charity starts at home.
Was it someone in Hong Kong? Because I know a couple of self proclaimed experts...
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Why cannot some be paid that help to gin up folks? Not especially hard to get the masses to do something by seeding a few folks to get it going. I don’t know if that is the case, but both sides have been caught doing it here in the US at rallies, seems it would work elsewhere.
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Forgetful
I could be all wet, never said I was an expert. Simply stated my opinion.
Understood. I hope you didn't take that as an attack, it was a more a general statement.
Also, I understand you never said you were an expert. My opinion is that your lengthy experiences there are consistent with someone whose opinion would be consistent with an "informed' or "expert" opinion.
My general statement was to highlight that "experts" often disagree.
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Understood. I hope you didn't take that as an attack, it was a more a general statement.
Also, I understand you never said you were an expert. My opinion is that your lengthy experiences there are consistent with someone whose opinion would be consistent with an "informed' or "expert" opinion.
My general statement was to highlight that "experts" often disagree.
nothing wrong with hearing different viewpoints. some just seem to get anxious when the dialog slants from "conventional wisdom"
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Forgetful
All good. I do not believe any person, especially a Westerner, could ever be in expert on any topic China related. My comments were based off opinions shared by several long term HK friends. Ironically, they are Hong Kongese and very anti China and have this belief. Crazy that the HK citizens and the China propaganda camp would have same feelings.
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Hards
Take the time to read posts and not just who posted them. No crap that you are not an expert, no need to mention it again.
Joe
I spent years of my life bouncing around Asia and Europe as an expat investing the billions of dollars the GE machine generated for the Capital team. GE put us up in plush digs, gave us access to great clubs, paid for private schools, and gave us a couple trips home every year.
You, on the other hand, took an old line family-owned American industrial enterprise and pivoted it hard into something relevant to adjust to the new economic realities. Not only did you have the boldness of vision but the grit to reinvent the family business into a successful venture.
My path was easy; yours was fraught with risk and the downside of failure would have been catastrophic for you and your family. Years later, you can look back with pride that you saw an opportunity, took great personal risk, and through determination, vision, and effort built something your sons are now a part of.
I love the goobers who throw stones at a man who created value. They have no concept of what you accomplished.
I love the weak bellied tards of the world. Goddam but they bring a smile to my face. They are unworthy to lick your boots, Goose.
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nothing wrong with hearing different viewpoints. some just seem to get anxious when the dialog slants from "conventional wisdom"
Yeah. Like when someone shares a NY Times article that is in direct contradiction with what Mr. Man himself claims to be the case goes all “I speak the damn language but wtf so I know?!” Lol! Because speaking a language makes you infallible on all things related to every country that speaks that language.
Some people are incapable of having discussions that don’t result in themselves screaming from the mountaintop about how great their accomplishments are. It’s what we call “real men.” Only the most secure men are able to do it.
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m
Someone recently said charity starts at home.
Jams,
Trying to reason with a fool is, well, foolish
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Joe
I spent years of my life bouncing around Asia and Europe as an expat investing the billions of dollars the GE machine generated for the Capital team. GE put us up in plush digs, gave us access to great clubs, paid for private schools, and gave us a couple trips home every year.
You, on the other hand, took an old line family-owned American industrial enterprise and pivoted it hard into something relevant to adjust to the new economic realities. Not only did you have the boldness of vision but the grit to reinvent the family business into a successful venture.
My path was easy; yours was fraught with risk and the downside of failure would have been catastrophic for you and your family. Years later, you can look back with pride that you saw an opportunity, took great personal risk, and through determination, vision, and effort built something your sons are now a part of.
I love the goobers who throw stones at a man who created value. They have no concept of what you accomplished.
I love the weak bellied tards of the world. Goddam but they bring a smile to my face. They are unworthy to lick your boots, Goose.
Damn right and that's the kind of stuff that made our country the leader of the free world that it is.
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Kant speek four da udder old farts, butt eye sport da commando look, hey?
Doc,
I don't care about what you are wearing but I do so love a woman who understands the power of letting the wind caress the valley as it were...
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we know 99% of the board couldnt “lick the bottom of goooses boots” when all one cares about is the money theyve made. most of the board is 1/3 of ya’lls ages. give it some time. some people will get there and be worthy of the bank account worship that makes a man a man.
Doc,
I don't care about what you are wearing but I do so love a woman who understands the power of letting the wind caress the valley as it were...
nothing like a man who believes a woman should understand she should allow men to enjoy her physical looks and is nothing more than that. i love a good objectifying of women crash daddy.
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Um, we're now cheering a company moving American jobs overseas?
Weird.
Or, is this one of those "I got mine" situations?
The Boomer generation is so fickle when it comes to economic disparity and matters of individual vs societal prosperity.
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Crash
While our paths were different, I have always respected the expats that worked for multinationals and the guidance provided to me. First off, without the GE’s pathing the way, my journey may never have happened. Secondly, I have always appreciated learning from someone that took a different path than my path.
I appreciate your kind words, but as you know, I did not know any better. I put my head down and fought my ass off to survive.
Have to admit, my oldest son is making first trip to Asia with me in a couple of weeks and can not wait to see what he can do. I have shed plenty of tears in Asia, but I cannot wait to shed some more when I pass the baton onto my son.
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This thread may soon devolve into Scoop's version of "The Four Yorkshiremen."
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Um, we're now cheering a company moving American jobs overseas?
Weird.
Or, is this one of those "I got mine" situations?
The Boomer generation is so fickle when it comes to economic disparity and matters of individual vs societal prosperity.
until you know what business goose is in, best be quiet. i'll bet the panties in your dresser are made somewhere in asia-you supporting moving american jobs overseas?
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This thread may soon devolve into Scoop's version of "The Four Yorkshiremen."
Sounds more like ‘mature rage and the middle age backlash’
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until you know what business goose is in, best be quiet. i'll bet the panties in your dresser are made somewhere in asia-you supporting moving american jobs overseas?
Rocket
I love people who decry the loss of the American industrial base and then fume and rage when a stout-hearted leader comes along with the courage to address the matter. But then, these are the same folks who love getting bargains at the local Wally World.
By the way, as you and others know, my partners and I are making a real difference in the lives of the less fortunate. A handful of American and English i bankers are pouring millions of personal capital into improving power generation and energy consumption in the developing world. We don't publicize it because, well, that's not the point.
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Rocket
I love people who decry the loss of the American industrial base and then fume and rage when a stout-hearted leader comes along with the courage to address the matter. But then, these are the same folks who love getting bargains at the local Wally World.
By the way, as you and others know, my partners and I are making a real difference in the lives of the less fortunate. A handful of American and English i bankers are pouring millions of personal capital into improving power generation and energy consumption in the developing world. We don't publicize it because, well, that's not the point.
But you'll share it on Scoop.
Thank you for your service.
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Um, we're now cheering a company moving American jobs overseas?
Weird.
Or, is this one of those "I got mine" situations?
The Boomer generation is so fickle when it comes to economic disparity and matters of individual vs societal prosperity.
You paint with a mile wide brush while your knowledge of Goose's family business isn't even an inch deep. No offense, but when you come after a guy who saved a business with bumper sticker stuff nobody is going to take you seriously.
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But you'll share it on Scoop.
Thank you for your service.
Hey, he's a humble guy
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You paint with a mile wide brush while your knowledge of Goose's family business isn't even an inch deep. No offense, but when you come after a guy who saved a business with bumper sticker stuff nobody is going to take you seriously.
You're correct. I don't know. And I never claimed to know.
But I thought the stance was it was important to keep jobs here? Is that not the situation?
The only details I was given was Goose's family had a American business that he moved to China and succeeded with. (Congrats on the business success, Goose).
Naturally, I asked a question with the evidence made public.
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"Oh, look, another of Scoop's finest threads," said no one.
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Rocket
I love people who decry the loss of the American industrial base and then fume and rage when a stout-hearted leader comes along with the courage to address the matter. But then, these are the same folks who love getting bargains at the local Wally World.
By the way, as you and others know, my partners and I are making a real difference in the lives of the less fortunate. A handful of American and English i bankers are pouring millions of personal capital into improving power generation and energy consumption in the developing world. We don't publicize it because, well, that's not the point.
That's what I'm asking about.
Is moving American jobs overseas bad? I would assume it is, because we're now supporting the idea of trying to bring them back using tough/stressful policy.
And if it is/was bad, why are we praising those who did it?
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"Oh, look, another of Scoop's finest threads," said no one.
I am amazed and impressed that this thread got to 5 pages.
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Lenny
Spot on. As you have a good understanding of my family and it’s history in Asia, I could not agree with you more. The education I have gained over thirty plus years in the region is something I am very proud of.
While I was a very poor student in school, I embraced the knowledge of both the locals in places that I have worked as well as the ex pats.
My family story means a lot to me because of the risks that we took to conduct business in Asia. I/we were not a big company or worked for one, but we rolled the dice very early on the importance that China would mean in global economy.
I can assure you that I am not an expert on China, but by hook or crook I have managed to run a company in HK and China for over 25 years. Nothing lasts forever and chasing new frontiers, but hopefully with a bit more knowledge than I had when we entered China.
My Dad had a lot of great gifts, but his ability to listen and learn remained a core belief in his life until he passed away at 90.
I really value posters like yourself that offer knowledge based off of your experiences in life. Wish there more Lenny’s in the world.
Goose
Thanks for the kind words.
My 2 cents on this whole discussion is simple. First, I'm interested in your and Crash's thoughts on Hong Kong/mainland China because of your backgrounds and knowledge. I realize that opinions are just that but some are more informed than others.
I suppose the fact that I know a little bit of both of your histories (and admire them greatly) reinforces that fact for me. So I'm disposed to listen - and learn.
Lots of smart people on Scoop. When Pakuni talks law, TAMU title IX, Doc MU history, etc.,- I listen. And learn.
In spite of the stupid fights i participate in (and at times start), I learn quite a bit here. Too much politics, too much stereotyping, too much anger, too much snark - but a pretty accurate reflection of what passes for "real life" today. And where else can I go to read a Keefe haiku that literally makes me laugh out loud?
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Ive spent the last 3-4 days in Singapore and Indonesia, mostly with people who have significant business relationships and exposure to HK as well as China and the insight Ive gained has been very interesting. Usually I'm just speaking with HK contacts and referencing my experience there, as well as my team in Shenzhen and Shanghai. But now I'm getting the perspective of those who don't have homes or offices in jeopardy of a change in power or policy, but those who would fundamentally adjust business practices and positioning to work around a "new HK". Anyone interested or wanting to know more can feel free to drop me a DM cause this thread has turned into a circus though I respect the views and opinions of the matter of a number of people here.
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Ive spent the last 3-4 days in Singapore and Indonesia, mostly with people who have significant business relationships and exposure to HK as well as China and the insight Ive gained has been very interesting. Usually I'm just speaking with HK contacts and referencing my experience there, as well as my team in Shenzhen and Shanghai. But now I'm getting the perspective of those who don't have homes or offices in jeopardy of a change in power or policy, but those who would fundamentally adjust business practices and positioning to work around a "new HK". Anyone interested or wanting to know more can feel free to drop me a DM cause this thread has turned into a circus though I respect the views and opinions of the matter of a number of people here.
Wags
Where in Indonesia - Jakarta?
Let's chat offline. Interested to hear your thoughts as well as catch up.
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Lenny
Spot on. As you have a good understanding of my family and it’s history in Asia, I could not agree with you more. The education I have gained over thirty plus years in the region is something I am very proud of.
While I was a very poor student in school, I embraced the knowledge of both the locals in places that I have worked as well as the ex pats.
My family story means a lot to me because of the risks that we took to conduct business in Asia. I/we were not a big company or worked for one, but we rolled the dice very early on the importance that China would mean in global economy.
I can assure you that I am not an expert on China, but by hook or crook I have managed to run a company in HK and China for over 25 years. Nothing lasts forever and chasing new frontiers, but hopefully with a bit more knowledge than I had when we entered China.
My Dad had a lot of great gifts, but his ability to listen and learn remained a core belief in his life until he passed away at 90.
I really value posters like yourself that offer knowledge based off of your experiences in life. Wish there more Lenny’s in the world.
Goose.
It takes a big man to admit areas of weakness. For you to tell all of us that you weren’t a great student, I think that speaks highly to your character. One of the smartest people I knew at Marquette was a guy who struggled with test taking. I mean the guy has forgotten more about history and literature than any of us will ever know. I think Al himself said it best.....”the world is run by C students.”
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i wish that i would have known goose back during school. he was the guy who drove the taxicabs and tended bar while getting 'C"'s those are the cats you knew were going to do well. a great family guy as well. to maintain solid relationships with your wife while raising good character kids-i think Al was speaking about goose when he said that
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Hey, he's a humble guy
im going to go ahead and guess that anybody who has ever worked for a profitable company has worked for a company that has donated a decent amount of money to charitable causes. its almost like theres a financial benefit for the company or something and not just money coming straight out of the executives pockets or something...
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jesmu
I saw that others have posted regarding American jobs and going to address that in my reply to you. Not that anyone wants to hear my life story, but going to share a snapshot of it because it relates to American jobs and your post regarding moving our family business to China. We did NOT move our family business (tannery) to China. We lost our company to China, well before anyone cared about China or loss of American jobs. Our customers, Nike, Timberland, Cole Haan, Rockport, etc., moved production to China in a big way in the mid 1990's. For 5-7 years we exported roughly 90% of our production to China. We adapted from shipping goods to Red Wing, MN, Freeport and Dexter MN, to Shenzhen, Dongguan and other Chinese cities in short order. That said, the Chinese ultimately built their tanneries and a large part of MKE tanning history died a painful death, our business was among that group.
I mention all of this because you likely would be hard pressed to find a more pro American job guy than me. We saw thousands of jobs lost in MKE, and a very big part of "old school" MKE economy disappear without one person standing up for our industry. At that time, and still today, I believe that was right decision. It is a global economy and people/companies need to adapt. IMO, my current business (nothing related to tannery or family business) has provided far greater benefit for the American work than harming it.
Again, this addressed to you mainly because of laziness, and wanted to point out that we did not move a family business. In addition, I have always believe the greatness of the American business mind is ability to adapt, invent and find ways to move forward.
Someone on here mentioned that making money is the ultimate goal for many people or businesses. I believe that is very broad statement that is actually untrue, at least in my experience. My Dad ran a company that employed 95% minority workers and never had a layoff, paid full insurance and made personal financial sacrifices during tough times. In my case, we have grown a small business with a dozen Asian folks working with us. I have experienced more downturns than I ever imagined, but my co-workers in Asia have seen wonderful financial gains in their lives.
Trust me, everyone wants to make money and that is not a bad thing. But, my greatest joy and sense of pride is 100% based off the lives I believe we have helped. In my lifetime I have seen a one family have over 25 family members work at our family business. Today, in Asia we have a husband and wife team and father/daughter team working with us. Not to mention that my oldest son has worked alongside me for nearly a decade. Those are the rewards that drive most small business owners.
Lastly, the world has changed and I likely will never match my Dad's business success (By the way, he was a C student that barely finished high school in 1938). But, I sure hope that I am able to change the lives of a fraction of the lives that he changed.
FYI--I am sure this will have little impact on those that believe in American jobs or business owners only care about making the most money possible. Just wanted to point out that some folks make great sacrifices in life to chase whatever dream they may have. Mine was simple, I wanted to be a business owner like my Dad.
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I love people who decry the loss of the American industrial base and then fume and rage when a stout-hearted leader comes along with the courage to address the matter. But then, these are the same folks who love getting bargains at the local Wally World.
Don't portray yourself as some sort of business guru, and then tout tariffs as a legitimate way to deal with China. Be a student of history. They don't work.
The American industrial base is not ever coming back to where it was. That's just how economics functions. Tariffs and any other trade limitations are simply delaying the inevitable. Highly skilled industry is still thriving in the United States. It's thriving in Milwaukee actually. But what they need are workers with skills. Finding ways to give people those skills is what is needed now. Not a return to mindless, low-skilled manufacturing.
But you worked for GE Capital right? A company that excelled in moving money around and covering up the problems in GE. Not terribly impressive.
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jesmu
I saw that others have posted regarding American jobs and going to address that in my reply to you. Not that anyone wants to hear my life story, but going to share a snapshot of it because it relates to American jobs and your post regarding moving our family business to China. We did NOT move our family business (tannery) to China. We lost our company to China, well before anyone cared about China or loss of American jobs. Our customers, Nike, Timberland, Cole Haan, Rockport, etc., moved production to China in a big way in the mid 1990's. For 5-7 years we exported roughly 90% of our production to China. We adapted from shipping goods to Red Wing, MN, Freeport and Dexter MN, to Shenzhen, Dongguan and other Chinese cities in short order. That said, the Chinese ultimately built their tanneries and a large part of MKE tanning history died a painful death, our business was among that group.
I mention all of this because you likely would be hard pressed to find a more pro American job guy than me. We saw thousands of jobs lost in MKE, and a very big part of "old school" MKE economy disappear without one person standing up for our industry. At that time, and still today, I believe that was right decision. It is a global economy and people/companies need to adapt. IMO, my current business (nothing related to tannery or family business) has provided far greater benefit for the American work than harming it.
Again, this addressed to you mainly because of laziness, and wanted to point out that we did not move a family business. In addition, I have always believe the greatness of the American business mind is ability to adapt, invent and find ways to move forward.
Someone on here mentioned that making money is the ultimate goal for many people or businesses. I believe that is very broad statement that is actually untrue, at least in my experience. My Dad ran a company that employed 95% minority workers and never had a layoff, paid full insurance and made personal financial sacrifices during tough times. In my case, we have grown a small business with a dozen Asian folks working with us. I have experienced more downturns than I ever imagined, but my co-workers in Asia have seen wonderful financial gains in their lives.
Trust me, everyone wants to make money and that is not a bad thing. But, my greatest joy and sense of pride is 100% based off the lives I believe we have helped. In my lifetime I have seen a one family have over 25 family members work at our family business. Today, in Asia we have a husband and wife team and father/daughter team working with us. Not to mention that my oldest son has worked alongside me for nearly a decade. Those are the rewards that drive most small business owners.
Lastly, the world has changed and I likely will never match my Dad's business success (By the way, he was a C student that barely finished high school in 1938). But, I sure hope that I am able to change the lives of a fraction of the lives that he changed.
FYI--I am sure this will have little impact on those that believe in American jobs or business owners only care about making the most money possible. Just wanted to point out that some folks make great sacrifices in life to chase whatever dream they may have. Mine was simple, I wanted to be a business owner like my Dad.
Good stuff, Goose.
Like I said earlier, I was merely going off what I knew and what was made public.
The explanation is appreciated and adds loads more to the situation. And certainly demonstrates that you didn't move the business location merely to cut production costs and line your own pocket. Helps those of us not invited to the meat summit understand the situation and where you're coming from.
More lines of open, honest communication would do everyone better. Thanks for having one with me.
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Don't portray yourself as some sort of business guru, and then tout tariffs as a legitimate way to deal with China. Be a student of history. They don't work.
The American industrial base is not ever coming back to where it was. That's just how economics functions. Tariffs and any other trade limitations are simply delaying the inevitable. Highly skilled industry is still thriving in the United States. It's thriving in Milwaukee actually. But what they need are workers with skills. Finding ways to give people those skills is what is needed now. Not a return to mindless, low-skilled manufacturing.
But you worked for GE Capital right? A company that excelled in moving money around and covering up the problems in GE. Not terribly impressive.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/2UvAUplPi4ESnKa3W0/giphy.gif)
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Hey jesmu
Like I stated in another post to Hards, I highly recommend that everyone read the message in a post and ignore who wrote the post. For better or worse, I might be one of the most open books on this site. Sadly, a nice percentage of folks on here think/know I am an pretty boy and ignore the meaning of the post, simply because written by me.
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I wonder what all of the clowns that are knocking people that have had business success do for a living? They all seem so smart, I'll bet they can come up with a lot of funny names on the Starbucks cups that they hand out all day.
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I wonder what all of the clowns that are knocking people that have had business success do for a living? They all seem so smart, I'll bet they can come up with a lot of funny names on the Starbucks cups that they hand out all day.
some people dont feel the need to be praised for what theyve accomplished in life on muscoop (and everywhere else they go). others say things like "we dont publish all the good work we do for the less fortunate of the world...BUT WE DONATED MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO THE WELL BEING OF HUMANITY!" different strokes for different folks.
not to mention ill never make fun of someones work. everyone needs to do their best to pay their bills. ive been fortunate enough to have been put in a situation where it was made "easy" for me. other people have not. there are people out there who are writing names on a cup at starbucks whose story are much more admirable than mine. i may make more money than them but some of them are working that job and 2 others just to make ends meet. they are far harder working than i am. but hey, theyre just starbucks workers so lets make fun of their worthlessness on this planet.
some people are truly asshats.
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some people dont feel the need to be praised for what theyve accomplished in life on muscoop (and everywhere else they go). others say things like "we dont publish all the good work we do for the less fortunate of the world...BUT WE DONATED MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO THE WELL BEING OF HUMANITY!" different strokes for different folks.
Agree. But what makes them so smart and successful that they know everything? (Jesmu, tony smith, hards, jockey, etc.)
Me? I'm just a water boy and part time jizz mopper.
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Things are getting to spicy for the pepper here.
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Agree. But what makes them so smart and successful that they know everything? (Jesmu, tony smith, hards, jockey, etc.)
Me? I'm just a water boy and part time jizz mopper.
i cant speak for those people i just know for myself that humility means something to me and some posters have proven not to have a lick of it and need to turn absolutely every conversation theyve ever had into a "look what ive done thats so impressive in my life" so when it gets really bad i have a hard time calling stopping myself from them out.
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Bias
For being such a good guy, you share take your swipes at anyone that disagree's with you or you dislike. You have zero problem being a dick to anyone or anything that does not match your thoughts. In my world, that is a hypocrite. You should have the same respect for all people that you have for the Starbuck worker.
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Bias
For being such a good guy, you share take your swipes at anyone that disagree's with you or you dislike. You have zero problem being a dick to anyone or anything that does not match your thoughts. In my world, that is a hypocrite. You should have the same respect for all people that you have for the Starbuck worker.
find me anyone (besides you now) who has claimed im a great guy. i have 0 problem being a dick to people who are dicks. i dont take swipes at people who disagree with me. i take swipes at people who are condescending as hell, regardless of agreeing or disagreeing with any stance i take.
but you are all knowing and i will take your suggestion to heart because we should all aspire to be more like you.
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I wonder what all of the clowns that are knocking people that have had business success do for a living? They all seem so smart, I'll bet they can come up with a lot of funny names on the Starbucks cups that they hand out all day.
I worked for a big Milwaukee manufacturer out of Marquette and even did some work for them in China when it was like the wild west. Now I work for a couple smaller manufacturers in the area and am enjoying every bit of it.
But anyone who comes here claiming a knowledge of business, and claiming that the current tariffs are a good idea, hasn't seen what those tariffs have done to the bottom line at places like mine. It certainly doesn't help with employment because we have to look long and hard about replacing anyone when we have vacancies. The costs of doing business have shot up, and our customers will only absorb so much of that. That isn't a good, long-term situation for our economy and it could get a lot worse before it gets better.
Look at the steel industry. Sure a couple thousand jobs have been added, but it has cost the American consumer something like $900,000 PER JOB!! How much sense does that make? We would have been better off cutting a $500,000 check to each of those guys and letting them continue to work at McDonalds.
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All good. I do not believe any person, especially a Westerner, could ever be in expert on any topic China related. My comments were based off opinions shared by several long term HK friends. Ironically, they are Hong Kongese and very anti China and have this belief. Crazy that the HK citizens and the China propaganda camp would have same feelings.
Goose, thanks for this - this encapsulates what's so hard for me to understand about this situation (particularly the allegations of protest for pay, etc). My limited, western-biased understanding of HK is that its basically a small slice of democratic ideals crammed into an otherwise traditional asian (read: Chinese) culture, to form a sort of politically and economically western but culturally eastern haven. [I recognize this is probably 90% wrong, or at least 99% incomplete]
So through that gaze, these protests seem perfectly natural. Combine that with soundbite narrative examples like your friends' perspective as "very anti China" and there's a tension I can't wrap my head around - something like "Yes, HKese are the type of people that would protest like this, but they aren't actually doing it and the protesters that are doing it are being paid." It seems pretty inevitable that the public position of the protesters - that the Chinese are accelerating the rate they are trying to integrate HK and eliminate its uniqueness - is pretty undeniable? But yet if these protests aren't really coming from the heart, why not?
All very confusing for someone that has enough trouble tracking social-political movements in his own slice of the world. Maybe I should ask if you have any recommended reading to at least help the uninitiated understand the sparknotes version?
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Guy spends all of his life in Oconomowoc and thinks because he eats fried tofu at the local Jade Garden he knows Asia.
How you say, so stoopee?
You talk about how much you work in Asia yet this is how you talk about them? YIKES! I feel bad for the Asian people who have to put up with you. Given how much you've learned (you even speak the language!) you'd think you'd show some more respect for them.
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You talk about how much you work in Asia yet this is how you talk about them? YIKES! I feel bad for the Asian people who have to put up with you. Given how much you've learned (you even speak the language!) you'd think you'd show some more respect for them.
I took that as him proving he can speak the language, no?
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jesmu
I saw that others have posted regarding American jobs and going to address that in my reply to you. Not that anyone wants to hear my life story, but going to share a snapshot of it because it relates to American jobs and your post regarding moving our family business to China. We did NOT move our family business (tannery) to China. We lost our company to China, well before anyone cared about China or loss of American jobs. Our customers, Nike, Timberland, Cole Haan, Rockport, etc., moved production to China in a big way in the mid 1990's. For 5-7 years we exported roughly 90% of our production to China. We adapted from shipping goods to Red Wing, MN, Freeport and Dexter MN, to Shenzhen, Dongguan and other Chinese cities in short order. That said, the Chinese ultimately built their tanneries and a large part of MKE tanning history died a painful death, our business was among that group.
I mention all of this because you likely would be hard pressed to find a more pro American job guy than me. We saw thousands of jobs lost in MKE, and a very big part of "old school" MKE economy disappear without one person standing up for our industry. At that time, and still today, I believe that was right decision. It is a global economy and people/companies need to adapt. IMO, my current business (nothing related to tannery or family business) has provided far greater benefit for the American work than harming it.
Again, this addressed to you mainly because of laziness, and wanted to point out that we did not move a family business. In addition, I have always believe the greatness of the American business mind is ability to adapt, invent and find ways to move forward.
Someone on here mentioned that making money is the ultimate goal for many people or businesses. I believe that is very broad statement that is actually untrue, at least in my experience. My Dad ran a company that employed 95% minority workers and never had a layoff, paid full insurance and made personal financial sacrifices during tough times. In my case, we have grown a small business with a dozen Asian folks working with us. I have experienced more downturns than I ever imagined, but my co-workers in Asia have seen wonderful financial gains in their lives.
Trust me, everyone wants to make money and that is not a bad thing. But, my greatest joy and sense of pride is 100% based off the lives I believe we have helped. In my lifetime I have seen a one family have over 25 family members work at our family business. Today, in Asia we have a husband and wife team and father/daughter team working with us. Not to mention that my oldest son has worked alongside me for nearly a decade. Those are the rewards that drive most small business owners.
Lastly, the world has changed and I likely will never match my Dad's business success (By the way, he was a C student that barely finished high school in 1938). But, I sure hope that I am able to change the lives of a fraction of the lives that he changed.
FYI--I am sure this will have little impact on those that believe in American jobs or business owners only care about making the most money possible. Just wanted to point out that some folks make great sacrifices in life to chase whatever dream they may have. Mine was simple, I wanted to be a business owner like my Dad.
Great story, glad to hear we have similar values regarding small business ethics and values. Rewards dont always come in the form of paper.
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some people dont feel the need to be praised for what theyve accomplished in life on muscoop (and everywhere else they go). others say things like "we dont publish all the good work we do for the less fortunate of the world...BUT WE DONATED MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO THE WELL BEING OF HUMANITY!" different strokes for different folks.
not to mention ill never make fun of someones work. everyone needs to do their best to pay their bills. ive been fortunate enough to have been put in a situation where it was made "easy" for me. other people have not. there are people out there who are writing names on a cup at starbucks whose story are much more admirable than mine. i may make more money than them but some of them are working that job and 2 others just to make ends meet. they are far harder working than i am. but hey, theyre just starbucks workers so lets make fun of their worthlessness on this planet.
some people are truly asshats.
(https://i.giphy.com/media/3ohc15Cz4nPRZ0Zpi8/giphy.webp)
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MUBrrow
My experience indicates that HKese are a unique group in Asia. My colleagues/friends do not associate themselves with anything Chinese. It is almost like MU/UW type feelings. The Honkies associate far more with Western lifestyle, values and beliefs than they associate with China.
As for the protests, I believe it started from the heart and still may be from the heart. That said, protesting has become a profession for folks in the USA and this situation may be similar. If you want to be amused, try and see all the reasons behind each protest. Three weeks there was a protest in New Territory over Chinese women exercising in park.
I have posted often on this topic often on Linkedin and believe these protests may end up being the biggest international story of the first 20 years of this century. How China ultimately responds will have a great impact on how big of a story it becomes. I highly recommend that everyone watch this closely and do so with open eyes.
As for media/reading outlets, I am watching Bloomberg, especially in the evenings because they are live from HK and Beijing. Checking South China Post and googling every day for new info.
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(https://i.giphy.com/media/3ohc15Cz4nPRZ0Zpi8/giphy.webp)
Clapping up a response to ZFB? Or are you being sarcastic, too?
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Clapping up a response to ZFB? Or are you being sarcastic, too?
Clapping up WithoutBias' remarks defending those who work in the service industry.
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Pakuni
Do you really think ZFB is bashing service workers? You guys are unreal and always avoid the point of a post. Why don't you or someone in your camp address his question vs. focusing on the service worker comment. There are successful business guys (Not me, I am a work in progress) and they get bashed non stop. Ziggy asked what the "experts" out there do for a living and got crickets in return, only support for a group that needs zero support. It actually speaks volumes, you bash success and feel the need to defend folks that anyone with a brain already respects.
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(https://i.giphy.com/media/3ohc15Cz4nPRZ0Zpi8/giphy.webp)
+1.
Ziggy, respectable people don't need to toot their own horn. Especially, as often as some do here. It is indicative of a lack of self awareness; and one whose entire personality is built around bragging is usually a weak person, psychologically speaking. They rely on admiration from their fellow man to drive them. Why else mention your accomplishments at all?
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I worked for a big Milwaukee manufacturer out of Marquette and even did some work for them in China when it was like the wild west. Now I work for a couple smaller manufacturers in the area and am enjoying every bit of it.
But anyone who comes here claiming a knowledge of business, and claiming that the current tariffs are a good idea, hasn't seen what those tariffs have done to the bottom line at places like mine. It certainly doesn't help with employment because we have to look long and hard about replacing anyone when we have vacancies. The costs of doing business have shot up, and our customers will only absorb so much of that. That isn't a good, long-term situation for our economy and it could get a lot worse before it gets better.
Look at the steel industry. Sure a couple thousand jobs have been added, but it has cost the American consumer something like $900,000 PER JOB!! How much sense does that make? We would have been better off cutting a $500,000 check to each of those guys and letting them continue to work at McDonalds.
Short term pain, long term gain. Can not deny we have been crushed by China in trade, that also wasn’t good. At some point someone said enough, and some industries are thriving as a result, and some are not. If the pain leads to a better arrangement long term, I am for it. The question is whether it does or not. Doing business the old way had plenty of negative outcomes to, just depends what sector one is in.
We got hit with it from a supply chain perspective. Now new lines being setup outside of China which takes time and money, but it also hurt China and the Chinese company is screaming holy hell to the Chinese govt’ because they are losing so much business. That’s the pressure being applied and why’s China’s economy has slowed. Risky bets all around.
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That said, protesting has become a profession for folks in the USA and this situation may be similar. If you want to be amused, try and see all the reasons behind each protest. Three weeks there was a protest in New Territory over Chinese women exercising in park.
Silly reasons aside, IMO the increase in protest is a symptom of 1) governing based on 51% support or less and 2) ease of organization & publicity.
This isn’t a USA unique comment and not referring to any ‘side’. I do believe it’s a real problem though. More consensus/will needs to be allowed back into our governance process.
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Pakuni
Do you really think ZFB is bashing service workers? You guys are unreal and always avoid the point of a post. Why don't you or someone in your camp address his question vs. focusing on the service worker comment. There are successful business guys (Not me, I am a work in progress) and they get bashed non stop. Ziggy asked what the "experts" out there do for a living and got crickets in return, only support for a group that needs zero support. It actually speaks volumes, you bash success and feel the need to defend folks that anyone with a brain already respects.
Goose,
ZFB was using "works at Starbucks" as a pejorative. I see no other way to read his remarks. Does he really view people in the service industry as worthless or less valuable than people such as yourself? No idea. You're free to ask him.
Respectfully, could you please point out where in this thread - or any other - I've "bashed success." Sure, I've mocked the pomposity with which some here feel the need to brag of their success. I probably won't stop, either. But the mockery is aimed squarely at the self-aggrandizement and pretense, not whatever accomplishment is being touted.
I would guess most of us here have achieved some level of professional success in our chosen fields - we're Marquette grads, after all. But only a few feel the need to be blowhards about it on a sports message board.
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Silly reasons aside, IMO the increase in protest is a symptom of 1) governing based on 51% support or less and 2) ease of organization & publicity.
This isn’t a USA unique comment and not referring to any ‘side’. I do believe it’s a real problem though. More consensus/will needs to be allowed back into our governance process.
Don't tell me you're on your way to Area 51
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I worked for a big Milwaukee manufacturer out of Marquette and even did some work for them in China when it was like the wild west. Now I work for a couple smaller manufacturers in the area and am enjoying every bit of it.
But anyone who comes here claiming a knowledge of business, and claiming that the current tariffs are a good idea, hasn't seen what those tariffs have done to the bottom line at places like mine. It certainly doesn't help with employment because we have to look long and hard about replacing anyone when we have vacancies. The costs of doing business have shot up, and our customers will only absorb so much of that. That isn't a good, long-term situation for our economy and it could get a lot worse before it gets better.
Look at the steel industry. Sure a couple thousand jobs have been added, but it has cost the American consumer something like $900,000 PER JOB!! How much sense does that make? We would have been better off cutting a $500,000 check to each of those guys and letting them continue to work at McDonalds.
Well said.
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TinyTim
Just curious, what made it like the "Wild West" to you?
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You can usually tell if a protest is “sponsored” by the signage. When there are shiny, printed signs being handed out that were printed weeks and days ahead of said “rising”, it is often artificial at the source and being pushed by interests. Then you get some people to buy in and it grows, but rarely are protests just happening out of organic blue. When they are, one can tell the authenticity by who is there and what they bring with them.
Saw a story last year that showed the same group of people (photographed) in one protest after another that were totally disconnected from each other. That was their job, to protest.
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Goose,
ZFB was using "works at Starbucks" as a pejorative. I see no other way to read his remarks. Does he really view people in the service industry as worthless or less valuable than people such as yourself? No idea. You're free to ask him.
Respectfully, could you please point out where in this thread - or any other - I've "bashed success." Sure, I've mocked the pomposity with which some here feel the need to brag of their success. I probably won't stop, either. But the mockery is aimed squarely at the self-aggrandizement and pretense, not whatever accomplishment is being touted.
I would guess most of us here have achieved some level of professional success in our chosen fields - we're Marquette grads, after all. But only a few feel the need to be blowhards about it on a sports message board.
Should CEO’s, actors, athletes be able to make whatever the market pays, regardless if the avg Joe thinks it is obscene?
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the nytimes is the fox news of the other side-i wouldn't let my bird chit on it
Oh, so you're just an open proud moron at this point. Please do continue.
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Goose,
ZFB was using "works at Starbucks" as a pejorative. I see no other way to read his remarks. Does he really view people in the service industry as worthless or less valuable than people such as yourself? No idea. You're free to ask him.
Actually, it's only a pejorative to those who think themselves to be better than service workers.
I'd otherwise suggest you ask your barista if they enjoy their job the next time you're ordering your triple soy cow mocha frappucino, but service workers can sense others' disdain for them better than you know.
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Should CEO’s, actors, athletes be able to make whatever the market pays, regardless if the avg Joe thinks it is obscene?
Sure, as long as their markets were truly free and reflected the actual worth of their labor.
But as we know, that's not often the case.
Most star athletes' wages, for example, are deflated by things like salary caps, financial fair play regulations and luxury taxes.
CEO compensation doesn't often reflect actual value, but often is dictated by easily-reached benchmarks that are controlled by the CEO him/herself.
Actors I would think are the closest thing to being paid by what the market dictates.
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Actually, it's only a pejorative to those who think themselves to be better than service workers.
I'd otherwise suggest you ask your barista if they enjoy their job the next time you're ordering your triple soy cow mocha frappucino, but service workers can sense others' disdain for them better than you know.
Exactly.
And sorry, I don't drink coffee.
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TinyTim
Just curious, what made it like the "Wild West" to you?
Where I worked, which I won't name but we worked Passionately & Honestly to expnd our reach in China in the late 80s. We ended up hiring some sort of "consultant" who also owned a Chinese retaurant up near Capitol Court at the time. Working with this guy, we always managed to see who we needed to see over there, but my boss was real leary of how it all went down. For the life of me I can't remember the name of the restaurant. We did get to have some real good pork dumplings over lunch however.
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Pakuni
Do you really think ZFB is bashing service workers? You guys are unreal and always avoid the point of a post. Why don't you or someone in your camp address his question vs. focusing on the service worker comment. There are successful business guys (Not me, I am a work in progress) and they get bashed non stop. Ziggy asked what the "experts" out there do for a living and got crickets in return, only support for a group that needs zero support. It actually speaks volumes, you bash success and feel the need to defend folks that anyone with a brain already respects.
He was clearly diminishing the work of service industry employees. I don't feel the need to divulge my employment information because I'm not interested in an online dick measuring competition.
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I think it is important to be cognizant of some of the history regarding "success" on this board, without the history the angst some are showing here is hard to understand.
There is a lengthy history of derogatory attacks on individuals that have chosen fields that are not as financially lucrative. Including pretty vicious personal attacks on people that have chosen to work as Firefighters. Those people are heroes, but have been treated in the past in derogatory fashions.
Very often, some posters, have either flat out said, or implied that wealth is the only measure of success that is valued. Related, too often our society views wealth, as the only measure of success, hard work, and intelligence that matters.
That is a sad state.
It is this backdrop that is leading to some of the angst in the discussions here. Not directing this at anyone in particular, just pointing out the historical roots for anyone that may not understand where some of the statements are stemming from.
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I think it is important to be cognizant of some of the history regarding "success" on this board, without the history the angst some are showing here is hard to understand.
There is a lengthy history of derogatory attacks on individuals that have chosen fields that are not as financially lucrative. Including pretty vicious personal attacks on people that have chosen to work as Firefighters. Those people are heroes, but have been treated in the past in derogatory fashions.
Very often, some posters, have either flat out said, or implied that wealth is the only measure of success that is valued. Related, too often our society views wealth, as the only measure of success, hard work, and intelligence that matters.
That is a sad state.
It is this backdrop that is leading to some of the angst in the discussions here. Not directing this at anyone in particular, just pointing out the historical roots for anyone that may not understand where some of the statements are stemming from.
The moment this happened was pretty jaw-dropping for me
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I wonder what all of the clowns that are knocking people that have had business success do for a living? They all seem so smart, I'll bet they can come up with a lot of funny names on the Starbucks cups that they hand out all day.
Well said, Zig.
Lots of blowhards coming out of the woodwork.
Goose took a great risk, worked his ass off, and found success.
Lot of people merely exist, living out their days in quiet desperation. They cannot possibly comprehend what a man like Goose accomplished. What is genuinely sad is they are completely ignorant of the broader, wonderful world out there.
Some men live life to the fullest. Others merely exist. The chasm is profound.
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Well said, Zig.
Lots of blowhards coming out of the woodwork.
Goose took a great risk, worked his ass off, and found success.
Lot of people merely exist, living out their days in quiet desperation. They cannot possibly comprehend what a man like Goose accomplished. What is genuinely sad is they are completely ignorant of the broader, wonderful world out there.
Some men live life to the fullest. Others merely exist. The chasm is profound.
So now you're not only an expert in China's economics and culture because you speak the language (and mock their speaking English a very short time later), but you're the authority as to how well a person lived his life.
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Bias
For being such a good guy, you share take your swipes at anyone that disagree's with you or you dislike. You have zero problem being a dick to anyone or anything that does not match your thoughts. In my world, that is a hypocrite. You should have the same respect for all people that you have for the Starbuck worker.
Goose
That long, anguished wail you are hearing is the pain of a man who knows he is not fulfilling his promise and destiny.
Some of us break bread at Va Bene then trade thoughts over grappas in Lan Kwai Fong. Others hit the Arby's drive through in Pewaukee for a night of reality TV before bed.
A man lives. A fool exists.
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Short term pain, long term gain. Can not deny we have been crushed by China in trade, that also wasn’t good. At some point someone said enough, and some industries are thriving as a result, and some are not. If the pain leads to a better arrangement long term, I am for it. The question is whether it does or not. Doing business the old way had plenty of negative outcomes to, just depends what sector one is in.
We got hit with it from a supply chain perspective. Now new lines being setup outside of China which takes time and money, but it also hurt China and the Chinese company is screaming holy hell to the Chinese govt’ because they are losing so much business. That’s the pressure being applied and why’s China’s economy has slowed. Risky bets all around.
Jams
We have a couple major infrastructure projects in China that have been on hold since April because of the trade tiff. And while we have a lot of capital tied up that is not generating a return we, both US and London, are pleased that there is an effort to address Beijing's unfair trade practices.
China has gotten away with murder for far too long. It's about time we evened the playing field. Frankly, while it is hurting our returns we support the greater principal of fair trade.
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Crash
Well said.
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My starbucks comment was not a knock on the service industry worker, but the blowhards that know nothing but still tear down everyone else that doesnt agree with their viewpoint.
Starbucks has become a cliche for low barrier to entry work. Everyone needs to start somewhere, and people have different reasons for doing what they do.
I have a buddy thats a barista, he does that in the morning, then takes groups rock climbing in tje afternoon. That's cool to me, i wish i wasnt a slave to the grind and could do outside the box things. But I'm too afraid to do it, i like the steady paycheck.
At least goose, keefe, doc, cheeks, and a few others have established their bonafides, i trust their comments more than teardowns from jesmu, jockey and hards.
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Now this is what I came for. Please do tell, all knowing of MUScoop. What makes a life worth living? How do I go about living a worthy life. Because what you consider to be "living" is what everyone needs to work towards.
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Oh. I didn't realize I was the one providing the "teardowns"
Goose
That long, anguished wail you are hearing is the pain of a man who knows he is not fulfilling his promise and destiny.
Some of us break bread at Va Bene then trade thoughts over grappas in Lan Kwai Fong. Others hit the Arby's drive through in Pewaukee for a night of reality TV before bed.
A man lives. A fool exists.
As opposed to trash like this that insult good men, like my father, who made a calculated choice to take a low-risk/steady paycheck job and be able to provide safety and security for their family/children.
There's nothing wrong with risk-taking globetrotters.
There's also nothing wrong with cul-de-sac living, weekend golf warrior, family-loving providers.
To suggest otherwise is a f*cking douchey thing to do.
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Ziggy
That you needed to clarify your post says it all to me. The only your post was taken as a slap to Starbucks workers was if someone wanted to make it a slap. The usual suspects cherry pick out of posts, bash the poster without reading the post objectively and generally love to attack.
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Ziggy
That you needed to clarify your post says it all to me. The only your post was taken as a slap to Starbucks workers was if someone wanted to make it a slap. The usual suspects cherry pick out of posts, bash the poster without reading the post objectively and generally love to attack.
what other way could it possibly be taken? he literally said nobody is worthy of talking bad about guys like goose and crash daddy and all theyve accomplished unless they prove theyve accomplished just as much in life and havent simply worked in the starbucks writing names on coffee cups. thats a compliment to people who work at starbucks? learn how to read if you took it as that.
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Oh. I didn't realize I was the one providing the "teardowns"
As opposed to trash like this that insult good men, like my father, who made a calculated choice to take a low-risk/steady paycheck job and be able to provide safety and security for their family/children.
There's nothing wrong with risk-taking globetrotters.
There's also nothing wrong with cul-de-sac living, weekend golf warrior, family-loving providers.
To suggest otherwise is a f*cking douchey thing to do.
Dude, you are one of the most negative, spiteful people here. The fact that you dont recognize it says volumes about your character.
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bias
It should be taken in the manner it was meant to be taken. Sadly, you and your buddies took it as an insult to Starbucks workers. He did throw a jab at you and your crew and it definitely hit home to some of you.
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"The Mope Summit."
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Ziggy
A+++++ stuff on The Mope Summit. I will not be offended not getting an invite.
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bias
It should be taken in the manner it was meant to be taken. Sadly, you and your buddies took it as an insult to Starbucks workers. He did throw a jab at you and your crew and it definitely hit home to some of you.
what was the jab at me and "my crew?"
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Dude, you are one of the most negative, spiteful people here. The fact that you dont recognize it says volumes about your character.
One of? Who's in the top 10? Did I make it?
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One of? Who's in the top 10? Did I make it?
You did. Congrats. Participation ribbons for all.
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You did. Congrats. Participation ribbons for all.
Can I get a beef and cheddar instead of a ribbon?
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Oh, so you're just an open proud moron at this point. Please do continue.
because i don't like the ny times, i'm the moron? classic! surprised you're able to take some time away from your antifa buddies to respond to such a trivial matter
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Goose
That long, anguished wail you are hearing is the pain of a man who knows he is not fulfilling his promise and destiny.
Some of us break bread at Va Bene then trade thoughts over grappas in Lan Kwai Fong. Others hit the Arby's drive through in Pewaukee for a night of reality TV before bed.
A man lives. A fool exists.
What is the difference between living and existing? Financial success? Learning?Traveling and immersing yourself in other cultures? Developing meaningful, lifelong relationships?
Are there multiple ways to "fulfill your promise and destiny?" When is the exact point that a fool becomes a man? Who defines this?
Apologies if this comes across as condescending but I'm genuinely trying to understand your opinion of what makes someone successful.
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Sure, as long as their markets were truly free and reflected the actual worth of their labor.
But as we know, that's not often the case.
Most star athletes' wages, for example, are deflated by things like salary caps, financial fair play regulations and luxury taxes.
CEO compensation doesn't often reflect actual value, but often is dictated by easily-reached benchmarks that are controlled by the CEO him/herself.
Actors I would think are the closest thing to being paid by what the market dictates.
All true, but those are the market realities that exist in a market place system. Everyone cannot be the CEO, when one becomes one they are compensated based on market conditions that other companies are compensating for their companies.
Dak isn’t worth $30 to $40M per year, and I say this as someone who works with him, really likes him, but if someone pays him that....then that is all that matters and I wish him the success he has achieved. All it takes is a buyer. Rodgers is a much better QB, so are 5 to 8 other guys. That’s the way it goes.
I do not think money is the only way to measure success and if I had, would be doing something else. It can be important without ruling one’s life. There is also no doubt in my mind the high paid people I do come across are often very elite intellectuals, 4D chess types...I wish them well. I also believe there are numerous successful people that make $40k a year and are doing great work to drive humanity forward in a different path.
Where I find trouble is the constant bashing of people who do make money. Making money is not inherently evil or greedy, but way too many position it that way out of envy, or posturing. In some cases it is legitimate, but all to often is what the market will bear.
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Where I find trouble is the constant bashing of people who do make money. Making money is not inherently evil or greedy, but way too many position it that way out of envy, or posturing. In some cases it is legitimate, but all to often is what the market will bear.
I don't disagree with this much.
But, on the flip side, I would hope that you understand that a lot of the bashing comes from an understanding that the system (read: market) is rigged in favor of the wealthy, for the purpose of maintaining and expanding their wealth, and this rigging occurs to the detriment of most people outside that sphere.
This doesn't make all wealthy individuals evil. Most are products of the system more than purveyors of it. But so long as this system exists and worsens, as it has significantly over the past 30 years, the bashing will only get worse (and calls for socialistic policies will only grow louder).
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I don't disagree with this much.
But, on the flip side, I would hope that you understand that a lot of the bashing comes from an understanding that the system (read: market) is rigged in favor of the wealthy, for the purpose of maintaining and expanding their wealth, and this rigging occurs to the detriment of most people outside that sphere.
This doesn't make all wealthy individuals evil. Most are products of the system more than purveyors of it. But so long as this system exists and worsens, as it has significantly over the past 30 years, the bashing will only get worse (and calls for socialistic policies will only grow louder).
...and the systems in China, Venezuela, and the EU are not rigged? At least here, one can become a 1 percenter if you can find a product or service people want to buy, not the government dictating the price of what one can sell or buy (healthcare?).
..as long as the communist run China it is not going to end well for Hong Kong.
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Jams
We have a couple major infrastructure projects in China that have been on hold since April because of the trade tiff. And while we have a lot of capital tied up that is not generating a return we, both US and London, are pleased that there is an effort to address Beijing's unfair trade practices.
China has gotten away with murder for far too long. It's about time we evened the playing field. Frankly, while it is hurting our returns we support the greater principal of fair trade.
Yup, someone had some stones to finally do something. And it does hurt, but it is hurting both sides which hopefully will bring about change. Just as the Trade pact with US MX CA should be voted on, but of course it won’t because this is how it things work.
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I was going to nominate Marilyn Monroe and JFK to the conspiracy thread but t was crap down.
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...and the systems in China, Venezuela, and the EU are not rigged? At least here, one can become a 1 percenter if you can find a product or service people want to buy, not the government dictating the price of what one can sell or buy (healthcare?).
..as long as the communist run China it is not going to end well for Hong Kong.
I hate these kinds of posts.
The fact you can name somewhere that's worse doesn't mean we shouldn't be trying to do better. I mean, China? Venezuela? Way to set a high bar.
Imagine if the Founding Fathers, the abolitionists, MLK or any other leaders of a great American movement took this attitude.
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Wheel all neva bee friends, hey?
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ge = enron?
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I am loving the Scoopiness of this thread.
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ge = enron?
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/15/ge-shares-drop-after-madoff-whistleblower-harry-markopolos-raises-red-flags-on-its-accounting.html
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What is the difference between living and existing? Financial success? Learning?Traveling and immersing yourself in other cultures? Developing meaningful, lifelong relationships?
Are there multiple ways to "fulfill your promise and destiny?" When is the exact point that a fool becomes a man? Who defines this?
Apologies if this comes across as condescending but I'm genuinely trying to understand your opinion of what makes someone successful.
You're in the club or you aren't. That being the old boys club. Where casual racism isn't addressed, but brushed aside. Where excuses are made for insults, and "I'm sorry if you were offended" is the mantra. Where lives are measured on a balance sheet. And you dont get a seat at the table unless you kiss the ring. I've never wanted to be in their "club", but hey we cant all aspire to become such admirable blokes. Just ask each of them, they'll tell you who they know, how much they make, basically, why they're the hotness. Me, I just sit back and laugh at how pathetic it all sounds. Trying to convince internet strangers of their importance.
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Honest question, Hards. What year did you graduate undergrad from Marquette?
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https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/15/ge-shares-drop-after-madoff-whistleblower-harry-markopolos-raises-red-flags-on-its-accounting.html
Waiting to see if it has legs or just one big short sell ploy. Like going after Apple or Disney.
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You're in the club or you aren't. That being the old boys club. Where casual racism isn't addressed, but brushed aside. Where excuses are made for insults, and "I'm sorry if you were offended" is the mantra. Where lives are measured on a balance sheet. And you dont get a seat at the table unless you kiss the ring. I've never wanted to be in their "club", but hey we cant all aspire to become such admirable blokes. Just ask each of them, they'll tell you who they know, how much they make, basically, why they're the hotness. Me, I just sit back and laugh at how pathetic it all sounds. Trying to convince internet strangers of their importance.
This is kind of the same thing you don’t like/respect, it’s just a different currency. It’s too bad people connected as we all are can’t be genuinely curious in what others think instead of all the bashing.
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Where I find trouble is the constant bashing of people who do make money. Making money is not inherently evil or greedy, but way too many position it that way out of envy, or posturing. In some cases it is legitimate, but all to often is what the market will bear.
I really don't see this happening. People criticize a system rigged to benefit the wealthy, but they typically are not criticizing the wealthy themselves. There are exceptions, e.g. Martin Shkrelli, but in general people are not bashing the wealth, they are bashing a rigged system.
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The moment this happened was pretty jaw-dropping for me
Agreed, it honestly was sickening.
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I don't disagree with this much.
But, on the flip side, I would hope that you understand that a lot of the bashing comes from an understanding that the system (read: market) is rigged in favor of the wealthy, for the purpose of maintaining and expanding their wealth, and this rigging occurs to the detriment of most people outside that sphere.
This doesn't make all wealthy individuals evil. Most are products of the system more than purveyors of it. But so long as this system exists and worsens, as it has significantly over the past 30 years, the bashing will only get worse (and calls for socialistic policies will only grow louder).
Yes, it is “rigged” in the sense of you have money it is easier to make more. No question. If you are tall, good looking...easier to get a job, girls. If you are a pretty woman, you will buy less drinks. My sarcasm is there only to show that a lot of things are tilted for all kinds of reasons, some of which are blatantly wrong and some in our subconscious.
The problem as I see it with attacking g the wealthy is they are still going to get theirs. If you penalize them, they will trickle down the pain to everyone else. They have that ability through commerce, investment decisions, payroll, etc. I’m not so sure people that blindly hate the well to do realize when they say to kill the rich dude or penalize to the hilt, they don’t realize they are killing the golden goose for their livelihood...or maybe they just don’t care out of spite.
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Yes, it is “rigged” in the sense of you have money it is easier to make more. No question. If you are tall, good looking...easier to get a job, girls. If you are a pretty woman, you will buy less drinks. My sarcasm is there only to show that a lot of things are tilted for all kinds of reasons, some of which are blatantly wrong and some in our subconscious.
The problem as I see it with attacking g the wealthy is they are still going to get theirs. If you penalize them, they will trickle down the pain to everyone else. They have that ability through commerce, investment decisions, payroll, etc. I’m not so sure people that blindly hate the well to do realize when they say to kill the rich dude or penalize to the hilt, they don’t realize they are killing the golden goose for their livelihood...or maybe they just don’t care out of spite.
That’s not why people say it’s rigged.
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Honest question, Hards. What year did you graduate undergrad from Marquette?
04, love.
Weaponize it as you and no doubt the others see fit.
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I really don't see this happening. People criticize a system rigged to benefit the wealthy, but they typically are not criticizing the wealthy themselves. There are exceptions, e.g. Martin Shkrelli, but in general people are not bashing the wealth, they are bashing a rigged system.
We will agree to disagree. When I hear Soak the Rich, kill the rich, F the Rich, screw the rich, that would seem like criticizing. Or personal attacks because someone donated to the wrong cause or the wrong pol.
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Hards
You paint with a very wide brush. I can tell you that I am part of a club of one. I judge each person individually and on their merit. I have enjoyed the company of people from all walks of life and learned a ton along the way. Honestly, I am more comfortable in a corner tap than any with a group of fat cats. I judge people by their heart and their knowledge. Some of the smartest people I have ever met are folks that never made a great deal of money.
The guys you judge on here I have no idea if they are wealthy or not. They have reached out to me in difficult times in my life and have offered help and kindness. I believe there is good in everyone if you look hard enough.
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The moment this happened was pretty jaw-dropping for me
Most are, except for the ones that scam the system....we’ve had a problem with that out here in So Cal that is unfortunate, but well known to many a local resident and it has caused resentment for people that generally want to like those that do a job that is positive for the community. As is usually the case, comes down to money and how to game the system.
https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-drop-new-enrollment-20180413-story.html
And this
https://reason.com/2018/05/21/firefighter-earned-300k-in-overtime-by-w/
I grew up in neighborhoods dominated by cops and firemen, so they were like family. A blast to be around. I feel bad that they have a bit of an image problem on their hands, but reforms needed because of the bad apples.
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That’s not why people say it’s rigged.
Please illuminate why you think they do. I provided what I hear.
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We will agree to disagree. When I hear Soak the Rich, kill the rich, F the Rich, screw the rich, that would seem like criticizing.
None of which was said on here.
Or personal attacks because someone donated to the wrong cause or the wrong pol.
Again, none of which was said on here, and your statement can be equally applied to all walks of life and the entire political and economic spectrum.
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Hards
You paint with a very wide brush. I can tell you that I am part of a club of one. I judge each person individually and on their merit. I have enjoyed the company of people from all walks of life and learned a ton along the way. Honestly, I am more comfortable in a corner tap than any with a group of fat cats. I judge people by their heart and their knowledge. Some of the smartest people I have ever met are folks that never made a great deal of money.
The guys you judge on here I have no idea if they are wealthy or not. They have reached out to me in difficult times in my life and have offered help and kindness. I believe there is good in everyone if you look hard enough.
I feel we are probably more alike than different, simply different generations.
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None of which was said on here.
Again, none of which was said on here, and your statement can be equally applied to all walks of life and the entire political and economic spectrum.
He has resorted to moving the goal posts again, next up come the DMs when this thread inevitably gets locked. He's as predicable as the sun rising in the morning.
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What is the difference between living and existing? Financial success? Learning?Traveling and immersing yourself in other cultures? Developing meaningful, lifelong relationships?
Are there multiple ways to "fulfill your promise and destiny?" When is the exact point that a fool becomes a man? Who defines this?
Apologies if this comes across as condescending but I'm genuinely trying to understand your opinion of what makes someone successful.
Some people are content to live out their existence within 100 NM of where they were born. They find comfort, joy, and meaning in family, community, and heritage.
Others wander, explore, immerse, and engage. And in that they, too, find insight, significance, and satisfaction.
Neither is better than the other. We are all built differently.
What defines a man, I believe, is in identifying then acting on opportunities to give back, make a difference, and leave things better than how you found it. Service takes many forms and can be articulated in both the micro and the macro. This has nothing to do with personal wealth. It is about character and conviction.
In my faith, Anglicanism, we do it because it is expected.
There are many who pontificate or shake their fists at the world but never leave the couch.
Don Quixote tilted at windmills but there was nobility in his futility. There was no stench of hypocrisy on him. Unfortunately, the world is full of hypocrites.
Global warming? "I'm not giving up my SUV, riding a bike, or taking the bus!"
Racial division? "It's not because it's an all-white neighborhood! It's because there are great schools here!"
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You're in the club or you aren't. That being the old boys club. Where casual racism isn't addressed, but brushed aside. Where excuses are made for insults, and "I'm sorry if you were offended" is the mantra. Where lives are measured on a balance sheet. And you dont get a seat at the table unless you kiss the ring. I've never wanted to be in their "club", but hey we cant all aspire to become such admirable blokes. Just ask each of them, they'll tell you who they know, how much they make, basically, why they're the hotness. Me, I just sit back and laugh at how pathetic it all sounds. Trying to convince internet strangers of their importance.
That is a great post, Hards. Whether you meant to do so or not, you gave a great synopsis of the difference between Crash and Goose.
One (Goose) seems like a decent man. I certainly disagree with him on many issues discussed here on Scoop, but that has nothing do do with the measure of the man. From the little he reveals about himself on Scoop, one can surmise that he is a good family man with a strong sense of right and wrong.
The other (Crash) is a crass braggart. His every utterance is meant to glorify himself. His type are a dime a dozen and they exist in trailer parks and penthouses.
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That is a great post, Hards. Whether you meant to do so or not, you gave a great synopsis of the difference between Crash and Goose.
One (Goose) seems like a decent man. I certainly disagree with him on many issues discussed here on Scoop, but that has nothing do do with the measure of the man. From the little he reveals about himself on Scoop, one can surmise that he is a good family man with a strong sense of right and wrong.
The other (Crash) is a crass braggart. His every utterance is meant to glorify himself. His type are a dime a dozen and they exist in trailer parks and penthouses.
Your type lives in trailer parks and penthouses too.
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Most are, except for the ones that scam the system....we’ve had a problem with that out here in So Cal that is unfortunate, but well known to many a local resident and it has caused resentment for people that generally want to like those that do a job that is positive for the community. As is usually the case, comes down to money and how to game the system.
https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-drop-new-enrollment-20180413-story.html
And this
https://reason.com/2018/05/21/firefighter-earned-300k-in-overtime-by-w/
I grew up in neighborhoods dominated by cops and firemen, so they were like family. A blast to be around. I feel bad that they have a bit of an image problem on their hands, but reforms needed because of the bad apples.
As you know, Jams, I have deep respect and admiration for the guys on the Crash Truck sitting at the end of the runway. Every so often, every fighter pilot i know took a bottle of scotch over to the fire house and let the guys know we appreciate what they do for us.
Many of those young men left the USAF and used the GI Bill to go to college and find a different path in life. Others stayed in the service and rose through the enlisted ranks to positions of greater authority.
I have often wondered at why people settle in life. Frankly, I would find that path depressing.
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This has been an entertaining thread. I've learned a lot. Thanks, everybody.
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Some people are content to live out their existence within 100 NM of where they were born. They find comfort, joy, and meaning in family, community, and heritage.
Others wander, explore, immerse, and engage. And in that they, too, find insight, significance, and satisfaction.
Neither is better than the other. We are all built differently.
What defines a man, I believe, is in identifying then acting on opportunities to give back, make a difference, and leave things better than how you found it. Service takes many forms and can be articulated in both the micro and the macro. This has nothing to do with personal wealth. It is about character and conviction.
In my faith, Anglicanism, we do it because it is expected.
There are many who pontificate or shake their fists at the world but never leave the couch.
Don Quixote tilted at windmills but there was nobility in his futility. There was no stench of hypocrisy on him. Unfortunately, the world is full of hypocrites.
Global warming? "I'm not giving up my SUV, riding a bike, or taking the bus!"
Racial division? "It's not because it's an all-white neighborhood! It's because there are great schools here!"
The unintentional hilarity gods have shone brightly upon us today, gentlemen.
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This has been an entertaining thread. I've learned a lot. Thanks, everybody.
Mike, you ok??????
😜
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Jockey
I do not throw out compliments easily, but I can assure that Crash is someone that I respect a great deal. He has been a friend, a mentor and someone that has been there in difficult times in my life. Mind you, that 98% of that friendship was a man that was simply an unknown person on the internet.
I think you are flat out wrong in how you and others speak of him. IMO if you have lived a life that is unique or remarkable it should be shared with others. As I have noted on being a poor student, I love the fact that Crash has had been googling crap to know what he is talking about. Have to add, many others have had me googling and I respect that as well.
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The unintentional hilarity gods have shone brightly upon us today, gentlemen.
Hards, you understand you’ve been trolled....for about two days now. You get it, don’t you?
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Mike, you ok??????
😜
Never better. Indeed, I doubt many are happier than I am these days. Thanks for asking, though.
Carry on, folks.
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Never better. Indeed, I doubt many are happier than I am these days. Thanks for asking, though.
Carry on, folks.
Tell me ewe finally got layed, hey?
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Hards
I fully acknowledge that I cross lines on here and can be an pretty boy, but your dismissal of me on this thread regarding my thoughts on the protests indicates that we likely are not much alike. I think your dismissal of my thoughts, followed by “spare me a reply” probably derailed the beginning of great thread. You simply dismissed me without knowing anything about my background, simply because it was me.
Have to be honest, there are guys on here that I know their bias, but I would never tell someone on a non ball thread that they are dismissed. I have my ball bias and seldom post on any non ball thread. You chose to attack simply based on seeing Goose as the author of the post.
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Hards
I fully acknowledge that I cross lines on here and can be an pretty boy, but your dismissal of me on this thread regarding my thoughts on the protests indicates that we likely are not much alike. I think your dismissal of my thoughts, followed by “spare me a reply” probably derailed the beginning of great thread. You simply dismissed me without knowing anything about my background, simply because it was me.
Have to be honest, there are guys on here that I know their bias, but I would never tell someone on a non ball thread that they are dismissed. I have my ball bias and seldom post on any non ball thread. You chose to attack simply based on seeing Goose as the author of the post.
No, that's absolutely not the case. I know very little about you. Sure we disagree from time to time, but I disagree with lots of people on a wide variety of topics. I even find time to agree with Cheeks on a rare occasion. I don't hold someone's name or post history against them. I judge simply on the merit of the argument. I dismissed it because I don't think experience should ever take the place of knowledge. The truth is what you've heard from the people you know in China is what they've been told. Pure and simple. And that isn't knowledge. I was dismissive because it was very heavily implied that those who haven't been to HK or mainland China can't possibly know better than those who have. I honestly have no idea who is behind the protest, and I'm smart enough to admit it. I say this because no one knows. We are talking about China for christsakes. Their propaganda and censorship of information puts the rest of the world to shame. Is it possible that there are paid protestors? Sure, of course. By simply existing as paid protestors do they co-opt the entire group? Nope.
It could be one, it could be the other, it could be both. But when someone acts so damn sure of what is going on, rest assured, they usually don't.
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Hards, you understand you’ve been trolled....for about two days now. You get it, don’t you?
(http://giphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com/media/a3zqvrH40Cdhu/giphy.gif)
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Sad part about this thread, good guys are still good guys. Goose, Hards, The Dentists regardless of side here.
The bad part, keefe still going to keefe. Sad since he loves to tell us how much of a unnatural carnal knowledgeing American hero he is.
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Hards, you understand you’ve been trolled....for about two days now. You get it, don’t you?
Troll job would imply those acting out of character to enlist response, everyone is playing their characters well here.
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Troll job would imply those acting out of character to enlist response, everyone is playing their characters well here.
Trust me, he’s been trolled.
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Some people are content to live out their existence within 100 NM of where they were born. They find comfort, joy, and meaning in family, community, and heritage.
Others wander, explore, immerse, and engage. And in that they, too, find insight, significance, and satisfaction.
Neither is better than the other. We are all built differently.
What defines a man, I believe, is in identifying then acting on opportunities to give back, make a difference, and leave things better than how you found it. Service takes many forms and can be articulated in both the micro and the macro. This has nothing to do with personal wealth. It is about character and conviction.
In my faith, Anglicanism, we do it because it is expected.
There are many who pontificate or shake their fists at the world but never leave the couch.
Don Quixote tilted at windmills but there was nobility in his futility. There was no stench of hypocrisy on him. Unfortunately, the world is full of hypocrites.
Global warming? "I'm not giving up my SUV, riding a bike, or taking the bus!"
Racial division? "It's not because it's an all-white neighborhood! It's because there are great schools here!"
Keefe, I genuinely appreciate this post. Especially the bolded This seems to be much more agreeable than some of your other stuff.
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Keefe, I genuinely appreciate this post. Especially the bolded This seems to be much more agreeable than some of your other stuff.
Jesmu84, enjoy our dialogue in the chat room. You know that.
Hards and a few others have been trolled here for a few days now. Kinda funny. Like tossing a bobber and crawler into a pond and watching the bluegills fight for a bite. Your classic “solution looking for a problem”.
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Trust me, he’s been trolled.
Trust me, I haven't. Perhaps you think so, but I don't think you know what trolling is... outside of the lakes of course.
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Trust me, I haven't. Perhaps you think so, but I don't think you know what trolling is... outside of the lakes of course.
Nothing beats a Minn Kota.
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Trust me, I haven't. Perhaps you think so, but I don't think you know what trolling is... outside of the lakes of course.
🎣
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Hards, you understand you’ve been trolled....for about two days now. You get it, don’t you?
Hell, Chili, these guys get trolled every day by a meritocracy that rewards risk, skill, vision, intelligence, and balls. They would be better off packing up the Conestoga and moving the family down to Caracas.
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Tell me ewe finally got layed, hey?
I'm in a great mood, Doc, and you actually know why.
But hey ... leave your sheep out of this!
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None of which was said on here.
Again, none of which was said on here, and your statement can be equally applied to all walks of life and the entire political and economic spectrum.
I wasn’t talking about what was said on here ( even if some here believe it and don’t say it ), but rather what is said in public and to policymakers, media, etc.
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Recess is over boys.