MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: TallTitan34 on July 09, 2019, 10:34:48 AM
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https://theathletic.com/1068489/2019/07/09/how-joey-hauser-found-his-own-way-to-michigan-state/ (https://theathletic.com/1068489/2019/07/09/how-joey-hauser-found-his-own-way-to-michigan-state/)
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Great. Can't read it. Paywall.
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Here are a few highlights.
Hauser says now that this is what he wanted all along. Michigan State. Tom Izzo. He would’ve made the trip to East Lansing two years ago, he says, if things were simpler, if things were different.
Joey naturally assumed he’d follow his brother again. More and more, though, he began seeing his transfer as a redemptive opportunity. His original choice to go to Marquette was never made with blind certainty. Deep down, Hauser was always drawn to Michigan State. The two have history because, as most things involving Izzo tend to, there’s a coincidental connection weaving back decades.
David Hauser, Sam and Joey’s father, played college basketball at the University of Minnesota Duluth for a man named Dale Race. In the 1980s, Race held camps that needed a roster of instructors. Izzo, then a young assistant at Michigan State, ended up as one of those instructors.
Joey, meanwhile, couldn’t come around to the idea of parting from his older brother. “I don’t want to say I made the wrong choice going to Marquette, but I think my brother played a large part in me going there. For good reason,” he says over breakfast.
Marquette told him it would be smart to graduate early, enroll in college for the spring semester and use the university’s strength and conditioning program. It also sounded logical, except, deep down, Hauser didn’t want to leave high school early. He did so anyway. In hindsight, his ankle was probably better off, but he regrets the decision to this day. “If I had to do it over again, even if I had the injury, I probably would have chosen to stay in high school, just because you miss a lot of things,” Hauser says.
Ultimately, though, both brothers say that if they were truly dead set on playing together, they would’ve chosen Wisconsin. But they were not, in fact, dead set on playing together.
The decision dragged into the night. Joey Hauser called Izzo one more time. He had visited campus in May and talked to MSU coaches constantly, but he wanted some final reassurances. He asked Izzo how Michigan State will use him, what he’ll look like in the system. Izzo ended the conversation with a question of his own. “If Sam wasn’t going to Virginia, and it was between Virginia and Michigan State, where would you go?” Izzo said.
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blames MU for getting him college ready after the injury? Not sure how he'd have looked without coming early and using Stephens point conditioning but I'd wager not good enough that MSU would want him.
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I can wrap my head around Joey transferring. I still can't believe Sam did.
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I can wrap my head around Joey transferring. I still can't believe Sam did.
I think it would have been better for Marquette had Joey just chosen MSU and never came to Marquette. We might still have Sam.
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Great. Can't read it. Paywall.
Sucks when commercial enterprises ask you to pay for their product.
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Sucks when commercial enterprises ask you to pay for their product.
I'm fine with it. As I say to people who say they can't watch MU on CBSSN.
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I think it would have been better for Marquette had Joey just chosen MSU and never came to Marquette. We might still have Sam.
This is a really astute observation. Sam and Markus were real close and I bet the tension that existed between Joey and Markus put Sam in some bad spots - especially after reading this and seeming like Joey made the wrong choice from the beginning.
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blames MU for getting him college ready after the injury? Not sure how he'd have looked without coming early and using Stephens point conditioning but I'd wager not good enough that MSU would want him.
MSU offered him well before his injury.
And I don't think he blamed MU for anything here. He just said that looking back, he wished he'd have finished high school like a normal kid. Which is completely understandable, and something a lot of people here suggested would happen when Joey came to MU early.
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MSU offered him well before his injury.
And I don't think he blamed MU for anything here. He just said that looking back, he wished he'd have finished high school like a normal kid. Which is completely understandable, and something a lot of people here suggested would happen when Joey came to MU early.
Plus he would have his redshirt still to burn this year.
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Plus he would have his redshirt still to burn this year.
I'm 99% sure he will get that back. The ncaa is dumb, but are they really dumb enough to deny a kid another year for graduating a semester early?
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I'm 99% sure he will get that back. The ncaa is dumb, but are they really dumb enough to deny a kid another year for graduating a semester early?
I really doubt he get's it back, but we will see.
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I pointed out at the time that I though Joey made a mistake by coming to MU early and missing the last part of high school. Glad he realizes it now. There is a time for everything in life.
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This matches a lot of what I believed was the most believable storyline coming out of Hausergate, Joey always wanted to go to MSU, picked MU because of his brother, and that regret eventually caused tension that festered.
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Who?
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So unnatural carnal knowledgeing tired of reading about this guy and his brother. It's been a chore to login this site ever since, and why I've barely logged on this website for the past however many months.
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I pointed out at the time that I though Joey made a mistake by coming to MU and missing the last part of high school. Glad he realizes it now. There is a time for everything in life.
Joey and Sam where basically the same player, not the right chemistry to play together, one is fine, two of them were just not athletic enough
to be on the court at the same time. Your right, to bad he came to MU. Sam would still be at MU. Interesting to see how Wojo plays a 3 guard
line-up. McEwen, Howard and Anim will be the starters, upfront whoever can get a rebound probably will play.
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So unnatural carnal knowledgeing tired of reading about this guy and his brother. It's been a chore to login this site ever since, and why I've barely logged on this website for the past however many months.
Lol yet you clicked a thread titled: Joey Hauser Talks About Leaving Marquette
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I think it would have been better for Marquette had Joey just chosen MSU and never came to Marquette. We might still have Sam.
That's kinda how I see it. Oh, and let's not recruit brothers again for awhile.
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Any mention of a blind commitment to Wisconsin that they backed out of because of their mother? Was that not the story here a month ago?
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Joey and Sam where basically the same player, not the right chemistry to play together, one is fine, two of them were just not athletic enough
to be on the court at the same time.
That's really just not accurate. They were fine together last year and would have been even better this year.
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I'm 99% sure he will get that back. The ncaa is dumb, but are they really dumb enough to deny a kid another year for graduating a semester early?
not a chance. It was due to injury.
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So unnatural carnal knowledgeing tired of reading about this guy and his brother. It's been a chore to login this site ever since, and why I've barely logged on this website for the past however many months.
Its pretty simple to not click on the post.
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I really doubt he get's it back, but we will see.
If he gets the redshirt back I think he eventually uses it to grad transfer. Joey will get his feelings hurt sometime in the next 2 years.
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WHO CARES!! Joey messed up and we paid for it. Don't even think MSU
will work for him. Izzo recruits top grade. Might be off bench player.
AT MU, he would probably start and have a year of experience. Makes
him a better player.
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Agree with Titan, we would have been better off if Joey would've gone to MSU in the first place. maybe not 18-19, but 19-20 for sure - keeping Sam would've made the coming season's team better.
With respect to the "secret verbal" to Wisconsin, what they may have said to Gard is what Joey said in the article - if they wanted to play together, the decision would be Wisconsin. Easy for something like that to get twisted up into a secret commit.
And of course, the story we REALLY wanted to know was skipped over in the article "Here, there will be no talk of why the Hausers moved on. Neither is interested in rehashing the decision..."
Don't you have to hash the decision before you rehash it?
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So two brothers, who have played together their entire lives, have a close bond and a seemingly awesome family decided they were better off being 400 and 1,000 miles from home and playing apart for the first time ever then going to Wisconsin 115 miles from home.
Hate to see that.
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So two brothers, who have played together their entire lives, have a close bond and a seemingly awesome family decided they were better off being 400 and 1,000 miles from home and playing apart for the first time ever then going to Wisconsin 115 miles from home.
Hate to see that.
Its all about Joey's NBA future. The close bond is why it took so long for Joey to decide on MSU and move on from Sam, which is what he should have done in the first place.
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Sam and Joey chose top 10 programs and will have every chance to succeed when they next take the court. Best of luck. Hopefully this is a learning opportunity for both of them -- Joey in particular. He's got every right to transfer. But his comments seem to suggest that committing to Marquette and leaving high school early weren't his decisions. Taking responsibility is part of growing up. If you don't like the choices you've made, you need to think harder about how you make them.
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My connections in the athletic department at MSU are saying that Coach Izzo is tinkering with the notion of having Joey be a super sized shooting guard. They say he will need to improve his lateral to guard the 2. Kind of ironic, as Mr. Dodds frequently said Joey could be a 2.
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To the people crapting on Joey and Sam:
Why? Two very very very good teams thought they would be great pieces. It's a shame to lose them, but lets not go Wisco on them.
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My connections in the athletic department at MSU are saying that Coach Izzo is tinkering with the notion of having Joey be a super sized shooting guard. They say he will need to improve his lateral to guard the 2. Kind of ironic, as Mr. Dodds frequently said Joey could be a 2.
If Joey guards the 2 consistently he will so regularly get his $hit handed to him he might as well change his name to Metamucil.
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My connections in the athletic department at MSU are saying that Coach Izzo is tinkering with the notion of having Joey be a super sized shooting guard. They say he will need to improve his lateral to guard the 2. Kind of ironic, as Mr. Dodds frequently said Joey could be a 2.
Actually he said Joey could play all 5 positions.
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To the people crapting on Joey and Sam:
Why? Two very very very good teams thought they would be great pieces. It's a shame to lose them, but lets not go Wisco on them.
I think I've only seen one person "crapting" on Joey in this thread and no one crapping on Sam. I guess call out the one person if you want but the comparison to Wisco seems unnecessary in this thread.
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My connections in the athletic department at MSU are saying that Coach Izzo is tinkering with the notion of having Joey be a super sized shooting guard. They say he will need to improve his lateral to guard the 2. Kind of ironic, as Mr. Dodds frequently said Joey could be a 2.
You can't teach speed.
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You can't teach speed.
why are there track coaches?
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that's a very good article
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Actually he said Joey could play all 5 positions.
At the same time.
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To the people crapting on Joey and Sam:
Why? Two very very very good teams thought they would be great pieces. It's a shame to lose them, but lets not go Wisco on them.
Why because they are pieces of shyte that left a preseason #2 ranked team in the country. F them
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I thought the article said very little.
Anyway, Joey does not meet the criteria for a 5-Year Rule waiver, which is what would be needed. Doesn’t mean he won’t get it, especially because it’s years away and the NCAA ignores its bylaws quite frequently. However, his circumstances clearly are not in line with a 5 Year Rule waiver.
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My connections in the athletic department at MSU are saying that Coach Izzo is tinkering with the notion of having Joey be a super sized shooting guard. They say he will need to improve his lateral to guard the 2. Kind of ironic, as Mr. Dodds frequently said Joey could be a 2.
LoL.
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I was hoping he would have said something controversial.
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At the same time.
What did the blender say?
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Good luck to Joey. He's 19, a teenager. Has his whole life ahead of him. Hopefully this all works out for him.
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I think it would have been better for Marquette had Joey just chosen MSU and never came to Marquette. We might still have Sam.
I have to give credit where it's due, this is one of the better points I've seen on this board in a long time. I think this is spot on.
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Surprised there was no mention of the two silent verbals he gave Greg Gard
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Surprised there was no mention of the two silent verbals he gave Greg Gard
The first rule of silent verbals is you don’t talk about silent verbals.
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Hindsight is 20-20
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Why because they are pieces of shyte that left a preseason #2 ranked team in the country. F them
Oh hell no...you don't get to do this sandknit..you have been on this board on numerous occasions claiming how they were never going to be able to live up to that ranking in the first place. You can't use that to your advantage now to bash the Hauser's.
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I think there is a better chance of Baby Huey being at MSU in two years than St. Izzo.
Hausers should be moved to the SuperBar.
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I think BC's got a point. We'll see if Joey gets his "feelings hurt." Gosh, somebody might exhort him to paly harder, play defense.
Don't know what I would have done at that age (NAIVE) but I'm worried about his track record.
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I think it would have been better for Marquette had Joey just chosen MSU and never came to Marquette. We might still have Sam.
Agree. Although the anti-Wojo faction woulda gone ape-shyte if the high-4-star brother hadn't chosen MU ... I believe based on all the info we have that Sam probably would have stayed and we'd have a kick-arse team next season.
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This matches a lot of what I believed was the most believable storyline coming out of Hausergate, Joey always wanted to go to MSU, picked MU because of his brother, and that regret eventually caused tension that festered.
Plus tax.
He didn't follow his heart, he followed his brother.
I wonder how many times, in their conversations, Joey told Sam some version of, "I KNEW I shouldn't have come here," how many times in those conversations he crapt on Markus. We'll never know, of course, but given the stuff in this interview, added to the stuff we already knew, it's certainly plausible.
Most kids DO grow up, and Joey just might find that his experience at Marquette helped prepare him for the kind of scrutiny he'll get from Michigan State's demanding coach and fan base.
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I wonder if Joey’s strong pull to MSU was part of the reason MU got him on campus a semester early. Burning his redshirt may have been a preemptive way of making Joey think twice about transferring if he had a change of heart.
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I wonder if Joey’s strong pull to MSU was part of the reason MU got him on campus a semester early. Burning his redshirt may have been a preemptive way of making Joey think twice about transferring if he had a change of heart.
I'm guessing it had more to do with him rehabbing his ankle on their watch.
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Just a reminder of what was said when he committed
Central Wisconsin Sports, who interviewed Hauser himself:
“To be honest, I tried not to let my brother being there be a huge factor,” Hauser said. “Obviously it did a little bit, but just playing for coach Wojo, I think he’s going to get the best out of me and help me become what I want in life and playing in Marquette, ever since they started recruiting me, that’s just something I really wanted to do. I’ve known coach Wojo now since eighth grade. Seeing what he’s done with the program, turning it around… that’s something I want to be a part of. My brother bought into it, now I’m buying into it.”
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Just a reminder of what was said when he committed
Central Wisconsin Sports, who interviewed Hauser himself:
“To be honest, I tried not to let my brother being there be a huge factor,” Hauser said. “Obviously it did a little bit, but just playing for coach Wojo, I think he’s going to get the best out of me and help me become what I want in life and playing in Marquette, ever since they started recruiting me, that’s just something I really wanted to do. I’ve known coach Wojo now since eighth grade. Seeing what he’s done with the program, turning it around… that’s something I want to be a part of. My brother bought into it, now I’m buying into it.”
I have an episode of Inside Big East Basketball on my DVR from last winter where he is saying almost the exact same thing.
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Art Linkletter was right!
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Art Linkletter was right!
Great Comment.
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Art Linkletter was right!
"Kids (and Scoopers) say the darnedest things" - my favorite segment of the show!
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Art Linkletter was right!
I’d bet 95% of Scoopers are clueless as to your reference.
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I’d bet 95% of Scoopers are clueless as to your reference.
They can always use the googles.
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Art Linkletter was right!
Hoo, hey?
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They can always use the googles.
At least Lenny and Loose are older than dirt, so they got the reference. ;)
And the rest can contact Mr Google.
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I am upset and disappointed that Sam Hauser left the Marquette basketball program.
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Just a reminder of what was said when he committed
Central Wisconsin Sports, who interviewed Hauser himself:
“To be honest, I tried not to let my brother being there be a huge factor,” Hauser said. “Obviously it did a little bit, but just playing for coach Wojo, I think he’s going to get the best out of me and help me become what I want in life and playing in Marquette, ever since they started recruiting me, that’s just something I really wanted to do. I’ve known coach Wojo now since eighth grade. Seeing what he’s done with the program, turning it around… that’s something I want to be a part of. My brother bought into it, now I’m buying into it.”
With all the attention focused on high level college athletes, do they get PR tips/training from the schools they play for? I know a lot of these guys are used to interviews from their high school days, but some of the commentary around why they committed or why they're leaving sounds like it could be coming from a politician rather than a teenager. Do schools try to manage the messaging here, or are the kids just learning to be mature at a young age?
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At least Lenny and Loose are older than dirt, so they got the reference. ;)
And the rest can contact Mr Google.
Would have been funnier if Lenny didn't feel the need to explain the joke. ;)
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Would have been funnier if Lenny didn't feel the need to explain the joke. ;)
That's OK ... none of us codgers could hear him anyway.
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With all the attention focused on high level college athletes, do they get PR tips/training from the schools they play for? I know a lot of these guys are used to interviews from their high school days, but some of the commentary around why they committed or why they're leaving sounds like it could be coming from a politician rather than a teenager. Do schools try to manage the messaging here, or are the kids just learning to be mature at a young age?
My personal experience has been that players do get media training but unless there is a crisis or scandal, the words are their own.
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You can't teach speed.
Doesn’t that depend on neck size?
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You can't teach speed.
I'd agree with this. But playing defense is less about pure speed and more about lateral movement and smart positioning -- both of which you can teach.
Improving lateral movement involves strength training (for greater explosiveness and endurance in a defensive stance), exercises to increase flexibility and balance and tons and tons of agility drills. Better conditioning plays a role, as well -- this is an area Joey definitely needs to improve. Smart positioning comes with coaching and experience.
I have no idea whether Joey will be able to eventually guard perimeter players. But it is possible to become a better defensive player through dedication and hard work.
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I'd agree with this. But playing defense is less about pure speed and more about lateral movement and smart positioning -- both of which you can teach.
Improving lateral movement involves strength training (for greater explosiveness and endurance in a defensive stance), exercises to increase flexibility and balance and tons and tons of agility drills. Better conditioning plays a role, as well -- this is an area Joey definitely needs to improve. Smart positioning comes with coaching and experience.
I have no idea whether Joey will be able to eventually guard perimeter players. But it is possible to become a better defensive player through dedication and hard work.
I think Sam is more athletic than Joey but not tons more athletic. Yet I'd call Sam a "plus" defender because he knows how to position his body, he uses his intelligence to beat offensive players to their spot, he has a good idea when to challenge a shot and when to avoid a dumb foul by not challenging a shot, etc. Sam was a pretty good team defender, too. At this point in his career, I'd rate Joey as poor on all of that. Maybe he can improve with a year of coaching from Izzo's staff.
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I have no idea whether Joey will be able to eventually guard perimeter players. But it is possible to become a better defensive player through dedication and hard work.
Of course it's possible to become better, but at some point every player has his/her physical limitations that cannot be overcome by training or technique.
All the practice and coaching in the world isn't going to allow Joey Hauser to guard an athletic two guard or wing. The physical tools aren't there. That's not a knock on Joey as a player, just a recognition of his capabilities.
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With all the attention focused on high level college athletes, do they get PR tips/training from the schools they play for? I know a lot of these guys are used to interviews from their high school days, but some of the commentary around why they committed or why they're leaving sounds like it could be coming from a politician rather than a teenager. Do schools try to manage the messaging here, or are the kids just learning to be mature at a young age?
My guess is that their parents coached them on how to handle the messaging surrounding the departure....
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My guess is that their parents coached them on how to handle the messaging surrounding the departure....
I agree. I think this also extends to a rebranding on his decision to leave SPASH early. To rebrand that as an MU decision and MU pressure that he regrets, instead of a him leaving his team (another transfer).
Frankly, he should do what is best for him. I wish him the best. But not a fan of some of the rebranding of stories for publicity purposes.
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I agree. I think this also extends to a rebranding on his decision to leave SPASH early. To rebrand that as an MU decision and MU pressure that he regrets, instead of a him leaving his team (another transfer).
Frankly, he should do what is best for him. I wish him the best. But not a fan of some of the rebranding of stories for publicity purposes.
I agree with this analysis.
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Joey should really learn how to guard the 4 before he worries about guarding the 2. Not sayin' just sayin'
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All the practice and coaching in the world isn't going to allow Joey Hauser to guard an athletic two guard or wing. The physical tools aren't there. That's not a knock on Joey as a player, just a recognition of his capabilities.
I'm generally in the same camp here. Nobody is ever going to confuse Joey Hauser with Mikal Bridges. But Joey might just surprise people.
I'm not sure we ever got a good look at his full capabilities, especially coming off his foot injury. This past season, he was clearly not in great basketball shape. Even in high school, he didn't have to be the best athlete or in the best shape. He had height, length, a great shot and a good handle. That's not enough if you want to play the 2 or the 3 in Division I (or beyond). Better conditioning and adding muscle -- while possibly dropping 5-10 pounds overall -- could make a significant difference in how he moves on the court.
Will he make the commitment and put in the work? Would that be enough to take his game to the next level? It's hard to say.
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At least Lenny and Loose are older than dirt, so they got the reference. ;)
And the rest can contact Mr Google.
There is no Truth in the rumor that I went to Grammar school with Santa Claus.
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I agree. I think this also extends to a rebranding on his decision to leave SPASH early. To rebrand that as an MU decision and MU pressure that he regrets, instead of a him leaving his team (another transfer).
Frankly, he should do what is best for him. I wish him the best. But not a fan of some of the rebranding of stories for publicity purposes.
There's probably some truth to this, though. I'm sure Wojo and MU pitched the opportunity for Joey to rehab and heal while being close to home as a nice perk to him choosing Marquette over MSU. Providing a little extra incentive (w/o crossing the line) to seal with deal with a highly regarded recruit makes a ton of sense. It's an easy sell as a win-win.
In hindsight, it could be very easy for a young man and his family to feel like there was added pressure due to his injury. I don't really see the way he talked about the situation making MU look bad. And it doesn't really seem like he's trying to gain any publicity from this angle. The whole thing to me just comes across as a young kid with every opportunity at his fingertips having a hard time making his first big life decision. Then when anything isn't perfect at MU, it becomes really easy to second guess the decision or to take a "grass is always greener" kind of approach.
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There's probably some truth to this, though. I'm sure Wojo and MU pitched the opportunity for Joey to rehab and heal while being close to home as a nice perk to him choosing Marquette over MSU. Providing a little extra incentive (w/o crossing the line) to seal with deal with a highly regarded recruit makes a ton of sense. It's an easy sell as a win-win.
Joey committed to Marquette before he was injured. It had nothing to do with his decision to enroll early.
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If he gets the redshirt back I think he eventually uses it to grad transfer. Joey will get his feelings hurt sometime in the next 2 years.
this
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I agree the enroll early decision was after his letter of intent. To me the enroll early decision was a case of good out of the box thinking by the MU staff. Here is a kid that is NOT a red shirt candidate, in fact he was expected more likely to be in a position to declare early for the draft. So MU has a free scholar, Joey has completed HS requirements WHY NOT. If the extra 6 months bonding with the team and rehabing lead him to a GREAT freshman season that leads him to early entry into the NBA at the end of his Soph year everyone at MU would have looked like geniuses and Joey could have thanked them for millions extra by getting into the league 1 year early. The rosy scenario doesn't come to pass and now its "he felt pressured".
Bottom line this article further fills in the story and its looking more and more like a series of unfortunate events that drove the "brothers" apart from the "team". Markus gets on Joey, Joey doesn't like it,the team goes from winning to losing, the rift gets worse, Sam is forced to pick sides, blood is thicker than water, the Hauser parents back the boys with Markus as the scapegoat.
So while a miracle worker head coach might have been able to save the situation 95% of the other HC's would have suffered the same fate. Wojo didn't start the fire, he's just not a miracle worker. I wish it weren't so but I can live with it with hope for the future.
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Joey committed to Marquette before he was injured. It had nothing to do with his decision to enroll early.
Yep. Not only committed, but had signed his NLI as well prior to the injury/surgery.
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I agree the enroll early decision was after his letter of intent. To me the enroll early decision was a case of good out of the box thinking by the MU staff. Here is a kid that is NOT a red shirt candidate, in fact he was expected more likely to be in a position to declare early for the draft. So MU has a free scholar, Joey has completed HS requirements WHY NOT. If the extra 6 months bonding with the team and rehabing lead him to a GREAT freshman season that leads him to early entry into the NBA at the end of his Soph year everyone at MU would have looked like geniuses and Joey could have thanked them for millions extra by getting into the league 1 year early. The rosy scenario doesn't come to pass and now its "he felt pressured".
Bottom line this article further fills in the story and its looking more and more like a series of unfortunate events that drove the "brothers" apart from the "team". Markus gets on Joey, Joey doesn't like it,the team goes from winning to losing, the rift gets worse, Sam is forced to pick sides, blood is thicker than water, the Hauser parents back the boys with Markus as the scapegoat.
So while a miracle worker head coach might have been able to save the situation 95% of the other HC's would have suffered the same fate. Wojo didn't start the fire, he's just not a miracle worker. I wish it weren't so but I can live with it with hope for the future.
Good analysis
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I agree the enroll early decision was after his letter of intent. To me the enroll early decision was a case of good out of the box thinking by the MU staff. Here is a kid that is NOT a red shirt candidate, in fact he was expected more likely to be in a position to declare early for the draft. So MU has a free scholar, Joey has completed HS requirements WHY NOT. If the extra 6 months bonding with the team and rehabing lead him to a GREAT freshman season that leads him to early entry into the NBA at the end of his Soph year everyone at MU would have looked like geniuses and Joey could have thanked them for millions extra by getting into the league 1 year early. The rosy scenario doesn't come to pass and now its "he felt pressured".
Bottom line this article further fills in the story and its looking more and more like a series of unfortunate events that drove the "brothers" apart from the "team". Markus gets on Joey, Joey doesn't like it,the team goes from winning to losing, the rift gets worse, Sam is forced to pick sides, blood is thicker than water, the Hauser parents back the boys with Markus as the scapegoat.
So while a miracle worker head coach might have been able to save the situation 95% of the other HC's would have suffered the same fate. Wojo didn't start the fire, he's just not a miracle worker. I wish it weren't so but I can live with it with hope for the future.
This seems like a fair, reasonable analysis ...
... except that you obviously forgot to point out that Markus is a "cancer."
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Joey should really learn how to guard the 4 before he worries about guarding the 2. Not sayin' just sayin'
Great minds think alike. That said, I really could care less if he could guard grandma in the driveway at this point.
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I agree the enroll early decision was after his letter of intent. To me the enroll early decision was a case of good out of the box thinking by the MU staff. Here is a kid that is NOT a red shirt candidate, in fact he was expected more likely to be in a position to declare early for the draft. So MU has a free scholar, Joey has completed HS requirements WHY NOT. If the extra 6 months bonding with the team and rehabing lead him to a GREAT freshman season that leads him to early entry into the NBA at the end of his Soph year everyone at MU would have looked like geniuses and Joey could have thanked them for millions extra by getting into the league 1 year early. The rosy scenario doesn't come to pass and now its "he felt pressured".
Bottom line this article further fills in the story and its looking more and more like a series of unfortunate events that drove the "brothers" apart from the "team". Markus gets on Joey, Joey doesn't like it,the team goes from winning to losing, the rift gets worse, Sam is forced to pick sides, blood is thicker than water, the Hauser parents back the boys with Markus as the scapegoat.
So while a miracle worker head coach might have been able to save the situation 95% of the other HC's would have suffered the same fate. Wojo didn't start the fire, he's just not a miracle worker. I wish it weren't so but I can live with it with hope for the future.
I've always thought it was a different and simpler story on why Joey decided to come early.
He already knew he wasn't playing ball anymore in HS. He knew stories from Sam about how awesome and fun College was, and he couldn't wait to experience it himeself. He realized that he could actually take part in that early. Done deal.
I bet they approached MU with the idea, and least casually, first.
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I've always thought it was a different and simpler story on why Joey decided to come early.
He already knew he wasn't playing ball anymore in HS. He knew stories from Sam about how awesome and fun College was, and he couldn't wait to experience it himeself. He realized that he could actually take part in that early. Done deal.
I bet they approached MU with the idea, and least casually, first.
I think recall Wojo saying he brought up,the option to the family as a way to ease his transition and have access to,the MU medical staff during rehab.
Joey might have been iffy or not on the idea but after talking it over with his family and the coaching staff he agreed to the move.
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This seems like a fair, reasonable analysis ...
... except that you obviously forgot to point out that Markus is a "cancer."
You need to quit posting period.
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FWIW, the author says he's following up with a second story about Sam ... who also refused to discuss why he left Marquette.
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You need to quit posting period.
I can't tell if you aren't picking up on MU82 being sarcastic, if you do think Markus is a cancer, or if you just don't like MU82 and the content of the post had nothing to do with this
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It is hard to tell. But, he is simply pointing out multiple times how ridiculously stupid the Markus is a cancer theme is. The kid is a 2nd team all American who was not playing a natural position last year to no fault of his own. He will be MUs all time leading scorer soon and is an outstanding representative of the university.
I bet when this ridiculous cancer theme goes away, MU82 will stop posting about it.
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Great minds think alike. That said, I really could care less if he could guard grandma in the driveway at this point.
How much less? Does it matter whose grandma it is?
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How much less? Does it matter whose grandma it is?
Are we talking about grandma or Grandmama? There is a huge difference, especially pre-injury.
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It is hard to tell. But, he is simply pointing out multiple times how ridiculously stupid the Markus is a cancer theme is. The kid is a 2nd team all American who was not playing a natural position last year to no fault of his own. He will be MUs all time leading scorer soon and is an outstanding representative of the university.
I bet when this ridiculous cancer theme goes away, MU82 will stop posting about it.
You win the bet!
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How much less? Does it matter whose grandma it is?
I bet Glow really cares about his own grandma so it's gotta be someone else's grandma.
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I wonder if Joey’s strong pull to MSU was part of the reason MU got him on campus a semester early. Burning his redshirt may have been a preemptive way of making Joey think twice about transferring if he had a change of heart.
This is, of course, the most logical explanation given what we now know. The idea that Joey was driving the bus or that he needed to be in Milwaukee to rehab his ankle makes little sense. I'm sure the MU coaching staff felt that once they had Joey on campus he would love it - but the fact that it would make a future transfer for a kid with doubts more difficult was certainly a bonus.
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This is, of course, the most logical explanation given what we now know. The idea that Joey was driving the bus or that he needed to be in Milwaukee to rehab his ankle makes little sense. I'm sure the MU coaching staff felt that once they had Joey on campus he would love it - but the fact that it would make a future transfer for a kid with doubts more difficult was certainly a bonus.
Maybe it was a factor, but I think a much simpler answer is Joey needed rehab and Marquette had better rehab than he could get in Stevens Point. I also assume the better rehab was free
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I wonder if Joey’s strong pull to MSU was part of the reason MU got him on campus a semester early. Burning his redshirt may have been a preemptive way of making Joey think twice about transferring if he had a change of heart.
I really doubt they had sinister motivations for getting Joey to campus early.
This is, of course, the most logical explanation given what we now know. The idea that Joey was driving the bus or that he needed to be in Milwaukee to rehab his ankle makes little sense. I'm sure the MU coaching staff felt that once they had Joey on campus he would love it - but the fact that it would make a future transfer for a kid with doubts more difficult was certainly a bonus.
I think rehabbing his ankle with the local sports medicine doctors makes a lot of sense from the coaching staff's perspective. I also think that getting him to campus allowed him to get a head start on his academic career, understanding the time demands of balancing basketball and academics, but also allowed him a more personal view of how the program works and what role he could play. He received more intensive strength and conditioning work when he came to campus as well.
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This is, of course, the most logical explanation given what we now know. The idea that Joey was driving the bus or that he needed to be in Milwaukee to rehab his ankle makes little sense. I'm sure the MU coaching staff felt that once they had Joey on campus he would love it - but the fact that it would make a future transfer for a kid with doubts more difficult was certainly a bonus.
If Joey signed before the injury as was posted yesterday that doesn't make sense to me that the redshirt was a tool to keep him from MSU.
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I really doubt they had sinister motivations for getting Joey to campus early.
Right.
Again, by the time all this went down, Joey had committed to and signed a LOI with Marquette. There was virtually no risk of him abruptly changing his mind and transferring to MSU at this point. The whole "coaching staff nefariously coerced Joey to come early" narrative is nonsense, unsurprisingly pushed by the same people with the same agenda.
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I’m not sure Joey saw 4 yrs in the plan so burning the redshirt never really was thought about. I think this NBA talk is a bit premature. I look at E Happ (i’m Not a big fan) AA and goes undrafted. He might make it, he might be just D league material or go overseas. He had a great inside game and very poor outside shooting and FT where even worse. I don’t think anyone sees Joey as an AA. At least not yet.
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I’m not sure Joey saw 4 yrs in the plan so burning the redshirt never really was thought about. I think this NBA talk is a bit premature. I look at E Happ (i’m Not a big fan) AA and goes undrafted. He might make it, he might be just D league material or go overseas. He had a great inside game and very poor outside shooting and FT where even worse. I don’t think anyone sees Joey as an AA. At least not yet.
Happ and Joey are extremely different players. One had a 3-foot shooting range. The other's best offensive weapon is the 3-pointer.
I also am not convinced Joey is NBA bound, but he and Happ are not the least bit comparable IMHO.
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Let's see here. We have either:
A) MU wanted to bring in a kid who had a brother who already had 2 years starting in the program under his belt and already signed his NLI a semester early so that they could guarantee he doesn't rethink his decision and ask out of his NLI to go to MSU and/or to make a decision to transfer out of Marquette harder given he doesn't have a redshirt year to burn anymore or...
B) MU saw that their star recruit was no longer going to play high school basketball given his year ending ankle injury which had been a problem for him over the last year and a half going back to his junior year football season and thought maybe they could get ahead of it and get that ankle fixed up immediately rather than realize it was still an issue when he got onto campus and then would have to miss part of this freshman year to have surgery and rehab the ankle. And they could get this surgery done for him for free by some great surgeons that they use and have him rehab in their own gym.
Yeah, must be option A. Heck, I'm pretty sure Joey's ankle was just fine and they just paid off a Stevens Point doctor to convince the Hausers that Joey's ankle was very messed up and he needed surgery, and then talked Joey into coming to Marquette early against his will so he didn't ask out of his NLI and then made it impossible for him to transfer out of MU when he hated it here.
Oh wait...
:o
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Joey:
"Marquette told him it would be smart to graduate early, enroll in college for the spring semester and use the university’s strength and conditioning program. It also sounded logical, except, deep down, Hauser didn’t want to leave high school early. He did so anyway. In hindsight, his ankle was probably better off, but he regrets the decision to this day. “If I had to do it over again, even if I had the injury, I probably would have chosen to stay in high school, just because you miss a lot of things,” Hauser says."
Scoop: Joey Hauser was forced by MU early to avert a recruiting loss to Michigan State.
Huh? The kid just said in hindsight he wished he stayed in high school with his friends. Am I missing something?
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Let's see here. We have either:
A) MU wanted to bring in a kid who had a brother who already had 2 years starting in the program under his belt and already signed his NLI a semester early so that they could guarantee he doesn't rethink his decision and ask out of his NLI to go to MSU and/or to make a decision to transfer out of Marquette harder given he doesn't have a redshirt year to burn anymore or...
B) MU saw that their star recruit was no longer going to play high school basketball given his year ending ankle injury which had been a problem for him over the last year and a half going back to his junior year football season and thought maybe they could get ahead of it and get that ankle fixed up immediately rather than realize it was still an issue when he got onto campus and then would have to miss part of this freshman year to have surgery and rehab the ankle. And they could get this surgery done for him for free by some great surgeons that they use and have him rehab in their own gym.
Yeah, must be option A. Heck, I'm pretty sure Joey's ankle was just fine and they just paid off a Stevens Point doctor to convince the Hausers that Joey's ankle was very messed up and he needed surgery, and then talked Joey into coming to Marquette early against his will so he didn't ask out of his NLI and then made it impossible for him to transfer out of MU when he hated it here.
Oh wait...
:o
Joey didn't have ankle surgery when he was enrolled at MU. He had it done before he came to MU. MU just helped with the rehab.
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Its pretty simple to not click on the post.
Lol yet you clicked a thread titled: Joey Hauser Talks About Leaving Marquette
Wow, thanks for the insight guys! You are so right!! Clicking on a post vs. reading the thread list and seeing every single one about these two clowns is completely different. I'm way off for even thinking the Hauser transfer debacle is completely tired.
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Right.
Again, by the time all this went down, Joey had committed to and signed a LOI with Marquette. There was virtually no risk of him abruptly changing his mind and transferring to MSU at this point. The whole "coaching staff nefariously coerced Joey to come early" narrative is nonsense, unsurprisingly pushed by the same people with the same agenda.
I wasn’t talking about him backing out of his LOI. His decision to redshirt for that half season meant he’d burn an entire year of eligibility if he wanted to transfer from Marquette. In a way, it could be looked at as an insurance policy to keep him at MU after Sam’s graduation if he wasn’t happy with his situation.
I mean, this isn’t even some radical conspiracy theory. Wojo and his staff weren’t born yesterday. Getting him proper medical attention was obviously priority number one, but if you think they didn’t even consider that him burning his redshirt might be beneficial to MU down the road, you’re not giving them enough credit. It was a savvy move, but it still didn’t keep Joey here.
Two other things:
1.) If we’re going to take Deonte and Haanif 100% at their word for what they said in the papers regarding their transfers, shouldn’t we do the same for Joey?
2.) Let’s not pretend that coaches always have the absolute best interests of their players at heart when it comes to matters like this. “Sinister” is too strong a word, but for the most part, big time coaches are all about themselves.
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I wasn’t talking about him backing out of his LOI. His decision to redshirt for that half season meant he’d burn an entire year of eligibility if he wanted to transfer from Marquette. In a way, it could be looked at as an insurance policy to keep him at MU after Sam’s graduation if he wasn’t happy with his situation.
This makes zero sense. How does having his redshirt year in his back pocket make him any more or less likely to transfer after Sam graduates?
1.) If we’re going to take Deonte and Haanif 100% at their word for what they said in the papers regarding their transfers, shouldn’t we do the same for Joey?
I'm not sure what this means. Nobody here thinks Joey is lying when he says in hindsight he wishes he'd have finished high school like a normal kid. We're calling out the dopes who are insinuating that Joey was coerced/tricked/duped into coming to MU early ,... which is something Joey is not claiming.
2.) Let’s not pretend that coaches always have the absolute best interests of their players at heart when it comes to matters like this. “Sinister” is too strong a word, but for the most part, big time coaches are all about themselves.
This is very bad logic.
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I wasn’t talking about him backing out of his LOI. His decision to redshirt for that half season meant he’d burn an entire year of eligibility if he wanted to transfer from Marquette. In a way, it could be looked at as an insurance policy to keep him at MU after Sam’s graduation if he wasn’t happy with his situation.
I mean, this isn’t even some radical conspiracy theory. Wojo and his staff weren’t born yesterday. Getting him proper medical attention was obviously priority number one, but if you think they didn’t even consider that him burning his redshirt might be beneficial to MU down the road, you’re not giving them enough credit. It was a savvy move, but it still didn’t keep Joey here.
Two other things:
1.) If we’re going to take Deonte and Haanif 100% at their word for what they said in the papers regarding their transfers, shouldn’t we do the same for Joey?
2.) Let’s not pretend that coaches always have the absolute best interests of their players at heart when it comes to matters like this. “Sinister” is too strong a word, but for the most part, big time coaches are all about themselves.
Yawn.
Can we put this thread to bed?
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It is hard to tell. But, he is simply pointing out multiple times how ridiculously stupid the Markus is a cancer theme is. The kid is a 2nd team all American who was not playing a natural position last year to no fault of his own. He will be MUs all time leading scorer soon and is an outstanding representative of the university.
I bet when this ridiculous cancer theme goes away, MU82 will stop posting about it.
Wanna bet? See all his posts about Shaka. He’ll get at least a 3 year run worth of sarcastic MH/cancer posts
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The whole "coaching staff nefariously coerced Joey to come early" narrative is nonsense, unsurprisingly pushed by the same people with the same agenda.
I don't know who said "the whole coaching staff nefariously coerced Joey to come early". I sure didn't. But the coaches had to know that Joey struggled to make his decision so it would stand to reason they would prefer him on campus (which I'm sure they all thought he would love) sooner rather than later. I'm sure they viewed it as a win/win.
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Scoop doing scoop.
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Let's see here. We have either:
A) MU wanted to bring in a kid who had a brother who already had 2 years starting in the program under his belt and already signed his NLI a semester early so that they could guarantee he doesn't rethink his decision and ask out of his NLI to go to MSU and/or to make a decision to transfer out of Marquette harder given he doesn't have a redshirt year to burn anymore or...
B) MU saw that their star recruit was no longer going to play high school basketball given his year ending ankle injury which had been a problem for him over the last year and a half going back to his junior year football season and thought maybe they could get ahead of it and get that ankle fixed up immediately rather than realize it was still an issue when he got onto campus and then would have to miss part of this freshman year to have surgery and rehab the ankle. And they could get this surgery done for him for free by some great surgeons that they use and have him rehab in their own gym.
Yeah, must be option A. Heck, I'm pretty sure Joey's ankle was just fine and they just paid off a Stevens Point doctor to convince the Hausers that Joey's ankle was very messed up and he needed sBurgery, and then talked Joey into coming to Marquette early against his will so he didn't ask out of his NLI and then made it impossible for him to transfer out of MU when he hated it here.
Oh wait...
:o
Since B never happened, the only scenario of the 2 you propose that is possible is indeed A. Thanks for pointing that out. Oh, wait...indeed!
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Can't wait for Barca. Where is MSU playing?
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Since B never happened, the only scenario of the 2 you propose that is possible is indeed A. Thanks for pointing that out. Oh, wait...indeed!
Yeah we know you think that the coaching staff forced Joey to leave high school earlier than he wanted to to ensure he didn't flip to MSU...even though he had already signed his NLI to come to Marquette.
This surprises absolutely nobody.
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Wanna bet? See all his posts about Shaka. He’ll get at least a 3 year run worth of sarcastic MH/cancer posts
I haven't written about Shaka in quite some time, but thanks for reminding me.
He's been quite the Boy Wonder in Austin!
Can't blame him, though. He's probably had a cancer or 2 on his team.
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This is the one that made me go...huh?
“The decision dragged into the night. Joey Hauser called Izzo one more time. He had visited campus in May and talked to MSU coaches constantly, but he wanted some final reassurances. He asked Izzo how Michigan State will use him, what he’ll look like in the system. Izzo ended the conversation with a question of his own. “If Sam wasn’t going to Virginia, and it was between Virginia and Michigan State, where would you go?” Izzo said.“
Ahhh, coach Izzo-
Yes
Umm, phone call, it’s joey calling again, wants to know if he get to shoot more than he did last year
Ahh, f**k, what time is it?
Umm, it’s 1:00 am sir, but only midnight in Stevens point
Alright, sonuva....put him on but would ya dvr the rest of that fab 5, 30 for 30 for me?
Yeah Joey, how ya doing?
Yeah hi coach Izzo, umm, I was just sitting here wondering...umm, can you tell me one more time how many times I will get to shoot the ball per game and how many minutes you’re promising me. I’ve got my mom and dad here and they just want to hear that one more time before we memorize the sparty fight song heheheehe
Oh, umm, yeah, Hi Dave, hi steph. Umm yeah like I was telling your fine son Joseph just a moment ago, he’s going to be the man
Awwww, cool thanks coach Izzo, I just wanted to make sure I heard you say it again...I get all goose pimply and stuff right mommy? cuz my dream has always been to play for you at Michigan state. And and and one more thing....
Umm joe?
Yeah coach anything for you...
Hello? Joe? Dave? I think we have a bad connection, hello? Helloooooo. Awe damn lost em again. Ok now where was I ....
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This is the one that made me go...huh?
“The decision dragged into the night. Joey Hauser called Izzo one more time. He had visited campus in May and talked to MSU coaches constantly, but he wanted some final reassurances. He asked Izzo how Michigan State will use him, what he’ll look like in the system. Izzo ended the conversation with a question of his own. “If Sam wasn’t going to Virginia, and it was between Virginia and Michigan State, where would you go?” Izzo said.“
Ahhh, coach Izzo-
Yes
Umm, phone call, it’s joey calling again, wants to know if he get to shoot more than he did last year
Ahh, f**k, what time is it?
Umm, it’s 1:00 am sir, but only midnight in Stevens point
Alright, sonuva....put him on but would ya dvr the rest of that fab 5, 30 for 30 for me?
Yeah Joey, how ya doing?
Yeah hi coach Izzo, umm, I was just sitting here wondering...umm, can you tell me one more time how many times I will get to shoot the ball per game and how many minutes you’re promising me. I’ve got my mom and dad here and they just want to hear that one more time before we memorize the sparty fight song heheheehe
Oh, umm, yeah, Hi Dave, hi steph. Umm yeah like I was telling your fine son Joseph just a moment ago, he’s going to be the man
Awwww, cool thanks coach Izzo, I just wanted to make sure I heard you say it again...I get all goose pimply and stuff right mommy? cuz my dream has always been to play for you at Michigan state. And and and one more thing....
Umm joe?
Yeah coach anything for you...
Hello? Joe? Dave? I think we have a bad connection, hello? Helloooooo. Awe damn lost em again. Ok now where was I ....
Yes, a player being asked how he would be used in a system is such a tragity. ::)
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I wasn’t talking about him backing out of his LOI. His decision to redshirt for that half season meant he’d burn an entire year of eligibility if he wanted to transfer from Marquette. In a way, it could be looked at as an insurance policy to keep him at MU after Sam’s graduation if he wasn’t happy with his situation.
I mean, this isn’t even some radical conspiracy theory. Wojo and his staff weren’t born yesterday. Getting him proper medical attention was obviously priority number one, but if you think they didn’t even consider that him burning his redshirt might be beneficial to MU down the road, you’re not giving them enough credit. It was a savvy move, but it still didn’t keep Joey here.
Two other things:
1.) If we’re going to take Deonte and Haanif 100% at their word for what they said in the papers regarding their transfers, shouldn’t we do the same for Joey?
2.) Let’s not pretend that coaches always have the absolute best interests of their players at heart when it comes to matters like this. “Sinister” is too strong a word, but for the most part, big time coaches are all about themselves.
Joey is putting out two narratives which have little to do with Marquette.
1. I was always in love with MSU. I was unhappy at my last school because I was always in love with MSU. The only reason I didn’t was because I love my brother. Because I was always in love with MSU I want you to love me as an MSU player.
2. NCAA don’t really hold that first year against me. I did come in early and benefited but I really didn’t want to do that. I should be given that 6th year of eligibility. Also looking back on it I should have stayed because I missed a lot. I didn’t really gel because I didn’t get to meet everyone in the first semester and they were already friends and I came in late so I probably should have just stayed in High School with my friends and entered college like any other freshman.
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Yeah we know you think that the coaching staff forced Joey to leave high school earlier than he wanted to to ensure he didn't flip to MSU...even though he had already signed his NLI to come to Marquette.
This surprises absolutely nobody.
Who TF is "we"? I know who "you" are. Someone who either can't read or someone who lies and intentionally misrepresent what people post.
This, of course, will surprise absolutely nobody except those "we" folks who do likewise.
Tell us again your fairy tale about how Joey came to Marquette so that our medical stall could operate on his ankle. LOL. You obviously have zero idea what happened so why are you still running your mouth? Oh, wait...I forgot. It's what you do. LOL.
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Who TF is "we"? I know who "you" are. Someone who either can't read or someone who lies and intentionally misrepresent what people post.
This, of course, will surprise absolutely nobody except those "we" folks who do likewise.
Tell us again your fairy tale about how Joey came to Marquette so that our medical stall could operate on his ankle. LOL. You obviously have zero idea what happened so why are you still running your mouth? Oh, wait...I forgot. It's what you do. LOL.
Says the guy claiming the Marquette felt they really needed to convince Joey he needed to be at Marquette a semester early so if he hated Marquette it'd make it harder for him to transfer.
You're right, let me shut my mouth because you know exactly what happened!
We all love you Lenny. You provide some incredible comedy here. We know how Lenny's logic works.
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Yes, a player being asked how he would be used in a system is such a tragity. ::)
tragity? a player being asked? i think it was the player axking the coach, right? and who mentioned tragedy?
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tragity? a player being asked? i think it was the player axking the coach, right? and who mentioned tragedy?
Raroh
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Says the guy claiming the Marquette felt they really needed to convince Joey he needed to be at Marquette a semester early so if he hated Marquette it'd make it harder for him to transfer.
More lies. But by all means keep digging. Tell us your inside information about Joey's free surgery performed by MU's doctors. That's why he came to MU early, right? The World According to Wades. Hilarious.
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I wonder if Joey’s strong pull to MSU was part of the reason MU got him on campus a semester early. Burning his redshirt may have been a preemptive way of making Joey think twice about transferring if he had a change of heart.
This is, of course, the most logical explanation given what we now know. The idea that Joey was driving the bus or that he needed to be in Milwaukee to rehab his ankle makes little sense. I'm sure the MU coaching staff felt that once they had Joey on campus he would love it - but the fact that it would make a future transfer for a kid with doubts more difficult was certainly a bonus.
Says the guy claiming the Marquette felt they really needed to convince Joey he needed to be at Marquette a semester early so if he hated Marquette it'd make it harder for him to transfer.
You're right, let me shut my mouth because you know exactly what happened!
We all love you Lenny. You provide some incredible comedy here. We know how Lenny's logic works.
More lies. But by all means keep digging. Tell us your inside information about Joey's free surgery performed by MU's doctors. That's why he came to MU early, right? The World According to Wades. Hilarious.
We're all laughing.
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soft, slow, non-athletic
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soft, slow, non-athletic
He’s a very good basketball player
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He’s a very good basketball player
Yup, he definitely has his weaknesses but he is still a hell of a player.
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U guys still talking about that Bi+ch?
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soft, slow, non-athletic
He’s a very good basketball player
These aren't mutually exclusive.
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I wish Joey all the best at East Lansing and continues to beat the rodents 90 miles west of Milwaukee.
“It’s time to move on, time to get going, what lies ahead I have no way of knowing, but under my feet, baby, the grass is growing, it’s time to move on, it’s time to get going”
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Yup, he definitely has his weaknesses but he is still a hell of a player.
I am not in the "Joey sucks" camp, not by a long stretch. I mostly liked his offensive game, and I wish he was gonna be a Warrior for a couple more seasons.
However, Titan, I'm not sure how you could have watched the 2018-19 season -- especially the last 2 months of it -- and determined that he is "a hell of a player."
Markus is an All-American, and there are plenty of Scoopers who don't think that even he is "a hell of a player."
When I see the phrase "a hell of a player," I think of a superstar, not a guy who averaged 10 and 5, a guy who faded badly down the stretch.
Now, Joey might one day be a great player. Obviously, Izzo thinks he's going to be good. We'll have to wait and see.
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Joey started 31 games as a freshman -- finishing the season 1st on the team in 3-point percentage (42.5%), 2nd in rebounding (5.3 rpg), 3rd in scoring (9.7 ppg), 3rd in 3-pointers made (45) and 4th in minutes (29.2 mpg).
So how does that compare to other recent freshman performances?
Joey's older brother Sam started 28 games as a freshman -- finishing 1st on the team in minutes (26.5 mpg), 2nd in 2-point percentage (51.5%), 2nd in 3-point percentage (44.7%), 2nd in rebounding (5.0 rpg), 3rd in 3-pointers made (63) and 6th in scoring (8.8 ppg).
Markus Howard started 27 games as a freshman -- finishing 1st on the team in scoring (13.2 ppg), 1st in 3-pointers made (82), 1st in 3-point percentage (54.7%), 3rd in assists (70), and 6th in minutes (22.0 mpg).
Davante Gardner started 0 games as a freshman -- finishing 1st on the team in 2-point percentage (57.6%), 7th in scoring (4.6 ppg), 7th in rebounding, and 8th in minutes (9.0 mpg).
Vander Blue started 12 games as a freshman -- finishing 4th on the team in steals (33), 5th in scoring (5.1 ppg), 5th in 3-point percentage (16.0%), 5th in assists (59) and 6th in minutes (19.0 mpg).
Dominic James started 31 games as a freshman -- finishing 1st on the team in assists (167), 2nd in scoring (15.3 ppg), 2nd in steals (50), 2nd in minutes (32.5 mpg), 4th in blocks, 5th in 2-point percentage (49.6%) and 6th in 3-point percentage (30.1%).
Jerel McNeal started 31 games as a freshman -- finishing 2nd on the team in assists (85), 3rd in scoring (11.1 ppg), 3rd in minutes (27.5 mpg), 7th in 2-point percentage (47.0%) and 7th in 3-point percentage (28.3%).
Wes Matthews started 14 games as a freshman -- finishing 2nd on the team in 3-point percentage (43.8%), 3rd in assists (51), 3rd in steals (29), 4th in scoring (9.0 ppg), 4th in rebounding (4.0 rpg) 4th in minutes (24.9 mpg) and 9th in 2-point percentage (38.9%).
Lazar Hayward started 16 games as a freshman -- finishing 3rd on the team in 2-point percentage (50.0%), 5th in rebounding (3.6 rpg), 6th in scoring (6.6 ppg), 6th in 3-point percentage (20.8%), 6th in steals (20) and 7th in minutes (16.3 mpg).
Steve Novak started 0 games as a freshman -- finishing 1st on the team in 3-point percentage (50.5%), 2nd in 3-pointers made (55), 5th in scoring (6.7 mpg), 6th in minutes (15.5 mpg) and 7th in rebounding (2.2 rpg).
Travis Diener started 3 games as a freshman -- finishing 1st on the team in 3-point percentage (44.2%), 1st in 3-pointers made (57), 3rd in assists (86), 4th in scoring (7.9 ppg) 5th in minutes (23.7 mpg) and 6th in rebounds (2.5 rpg).
I could go back further. But it seems fair to say that Joey Hauser had as good a freshman season at Marquette as any player over the past 20 years not named Dominic James. Most freshmen are a work in progress. His performance suggests he's going to be very good player.
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But he didn't get the ball enough so he left.
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But he didn't get the ball enough so he left.
Ball didn’t move so he left.
There’s a difference.
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Ball didn’t move so he left.
There’s a difference.
Markus had the highest assist rate on the team and was 125th in the nation.
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Ball didn’t move so he left.
There’s a difference.
I guess, If you play slow it might seem that way.
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The ball moved. Not the way he wanted.
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Joey started 31 games as a freshman -- finishing the season 1st on the team in 3-point percentage (42.5%), 2nd in rebounding (5.3 rpg), 3rd in scoring (9.7 ppg), 3rd in 3-pointers made (45) and 4th in minutes (29.2 mpg).
So how does that compare to other recent freshman performances?
Joey's older brother Sam started 28 games as a freshman -- finishing 1st on the team in minutes (26.5 mpg), 2nd in 2-point percentage (51.5%), 2nd in 3-point percentage (44.7%), 2nd in rebounding (5.0 rpg), 3rd in 3-pointers made (63) and 6th in scoring (8.8 ppg).
Markus Howard started 27 games as a freshman -- finishing 1st on the team in scoring (13.2 ppg), 1st in 3-pointers made (82), 1st in 3-point percentage (54.7%), 3rd in assists (70), and 6th in minutes (22.0 mpg).
Davante Gardner started 0 games as a freshman -- finishing 1st on the team in 2-point percentage (57.6%), 7th in scoring (4.6 ppg), 7th in rebounding, and 8th in minutes (9.0 mpg).
Vander Blue started 12 games as a freshman -- finishing 4th on the team in steals (33), 5th in scoring (5.1 ppg), 5th in 3-point percentage (16.0%), 5th in assists (59) and 6th in minutes (19.0 mpg).
Dominic James started 31 games as a freshman -- finishing 1st on the team in assists (167), 2nd in scoring (15.3 ppg), 2nd in steals (50), 2nd in minutes (32.5 mpg), 4th in blocks, 5th in 2-point percentage (49.6%) and 6th in 3-point percentage (30.1%).
Jerel McNeal started 31 games as a freshman -- finishing 2nd on the team in assists (85), 3rd in scoring (11.1 ppg), 3rd in minutes (27.5 mpg), 7th in 2-point percentage (47.0%) and 7th in 3-point percentage (28.3%).
Wes Matthews started 14 games as a freshman -- finishing 2nd on the team in 3-point percentage (43.8%), 3rd in assists (51), 3rd in steals (29), 4th in scoring (9.0 ppg), 4th in rebounding (4.0 rpg) 4th in minutes (24.9 mpg) and 9th in 2-point percentage (38.9%).
Lazar Hayward started 16 games as a freshman -- finishing 3rd on the team in 2-point percentage (50.0%), 5th in rebounding (3.6 rpg), 6th in scoring (6.6 ppg), 6th in 3-point percentage (20.8%), 6th in steals (20) and 7th in minutes (16.3 mpg).
Steve Novak started 0 games as a freshman -- finishing 1st on the team in 3-point percentage (50.5%), 2nd in 3-pointers made (55), 5th in scoring (6.7 mpg), 6th in minutes (15.5 mpg) and 7th in rebounding (2.2 rpg).
Travis Diener started 3 games as a freshman -- finishing 1st on the team in 3-point percentage (44.2%), 1st in 3-pointers made (57), 3rd in assists (86), 4th in scoring (7.9 ppg) 5th in minutes (23.7 mpg) and 6th in rebounds (2.5 rpg).
I could go back further. But it seems fair to say that Joey Hauser had as good a freshman season at Marquette as any player over the past 20 years not named Dominic James. Most freshmen are a work in progress. His performance suggests he's going to be very good player.
Markus' freshman year was a hell of a lot better as well. Precancerous
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Joey started 31 games as a freshman -- finishing the season 1st on the team in 3-point percentage (42.5%), 2nd in rebounding (5.3 rpg), 3rd in scoring (9.7 ppg), 3rd in 3-pointers made (45) and 4th in minutes (29.2 mpg).
So how does that compare to other recent freshman performances?
Joey's older brother Sam started 28 games as a freshman -- finishing 1st on the team in minutes (26.5 mpg), 2nd in 2-point percentage (51.5%), 2nd in 3-point percentage (44.7%), 2nd in rebounding (5.0 rpg), 3rd in 3-pointers made (63) and 6th in scoring (8.8 ppg).
Markus Howard started 27 games as a freshman -- finishing 1st on the team in scoring (13.2 ppg), 1st in 3-pointers made (82), 1st in 3-point percentage (54.7%), 3rd in assists (70), and 6th in minutes (22.0 mpg).
Davante Gardner started 0 games as a freshman -- finishing 1st on the team in 2-point percentage (57.6%), 7th in scoring (4.6 ppg), 7th in rebounding, and 8th in minutes (9.0 mpg).
Vander Blue started 12 games as a freshman -- finishing 4th on the team in steals (33), 5th in scoring (5.1 ppg), 5th in 3-point percentage (16.0%), 5th in assists (59) and 6th in minutes (19.0 mpg).
Dominic James started 31 games as a freshman -- finishing 1st on the team in assists (167), 2nd in scoring (15.3 ppg), 2nd in steals (50), 2nd in minutes (32.5 mpg), 4th in blocks, 5th in 2-point percentage (49.6%) and 6th in 3-point percentage (30.1%).
Jerel McNeal started 31 games as a freshman -- finishing 2nd on the team in assists (85), 3rd in scoring (11.1 ppg), 3rd in minutes (27.5 mpg), 7th in 2-point percentage (47.0%) and 7th in 3-point percentage (28.3%).
Wes Matthews started 14 games as a freshman -- finishing 2nd on the team in 3-point percentage (43.8%), 3rd in assists (51), 3rd in steals (29), 4th in scoring (9.0 ppg), 4th in rebounding (4.0 rpg) 4th in minutes (24.9 mpg) and 9th in 2-point percentage (38.9%).
Lazar Hayward started 16 games as a freshman -- finishing 3rd on the team in 2-point percentage (50.0%), 5th in rebounding (3.6 rpg), 6th in scoring (6.6 ppg), 6th in 3-point percentage (20.8%), 6th in steals (20) and 7th in minutes (16.3 mpg).
Steve Novak started 0 games as a freshman -- finishing 1st on the team in 3-point percentage (50.5%), 2nd in 3-pointers made (55), 5th in scoring (6.7 mpg), 6th in minutes (15.5 mpg) and 7th in rebounding (2.2 rpg).
Travis Diener started 3 games as a freshman -- finishing 1st on the team in 3-point percentage (44.2%), 1st in 3-pointers made (57), 3rd in assists (86), 4th in scoring (7.9 ppg) 5th in minutes (23.7 mpg) and 6th in rebounds (2.5 rpg).
I could go back further. But it seems fair to say that Joey Hauser had as good a freshman season at Marquette as any player over the past 20 years not named Dominic James. Most freshmen are a work in progress. His performance suggests he's going to be very good player.
Starting with your very last line, I did not say anything different. He indeed could be a very good player someday. Obviously, Izzo believes he will be, and Izzo knows even more about this stuff than you and I do. Joey might even be "a hell of a player" one day.
10 and 5, disappearing for 6 weeks, playing poor defense all year long ... that is not "a hell of a player" stuff, not the way I define "a hell of a player," anyway.
Zion was "a hell of a player." KD, as a freshman, was "a hell of a player." Anthony Davis was "a hell of a player." Joey, as a freshman, had some very good moments ... but, looking at his overall body of work, he was decent. There's no shame in being a decent 10-and-5 guy as a freshman on a good team. Let's not make him out to be something he wasn't.
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Markus had the highest assist rate on the team and was 125th in the nation.
Well we was the point guard
The ball moved. Not the way he wanted.
And ran off to the Paul Westhead of 2019, Tom Izzo. While his brother left for Mike Dantoni 2.0, Tony Bennett. Both of whom are famous for feeding kids everything they want and letting the players call the shots. I just wish for their sake they would have found coaches who preach team and defense and have a proven track record. SMH.
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Well we was the point guard
And ran off to the Paul Westhead of 2019, Tom Izzo. While his brother left for Mike Dantoni 2.0, Tony Bennett. Both of whom are famous for feeding kids everything they want and letting the players call the shots. I just wish for their sake they would have found coaches who preach team and defense and have a proven track record. SMH.
Nick Ward and Cassius Winston took 28% of the shots while on the court. Joshua Langford was at 29%. Izzo isn’t afraid to let his best players dominate the ball. If we want to go back and look at other years, Denzel Valentine for example, was a guy that dominated the ball a lot. I’ll submit, not as much as Markus, none are as dynamic, though. Saying Izzo doesn’t let his best players dominate the ball, simply isn’t true
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Ball didn’t move so he left.
There’s a difference.
Can you see the effort in the SUMMER workouts? These guys are busting their butts, and appear almost frenetic. The chemistry is already there. These guys look like a bunch with something to prove. Joey, right or wrong in being disgruntled, had horrible body language almost all year. Goodbye.
Replacing the production of Sam, who always gave his all, is what I’m concerned with.
I think doubters like you.....are in for a big surprise.
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Nick Ward and Cassius Winston took 28% of the shots while on the court. Joshua Langford was at 29%. Izzo isn’t afraid to let his best players dominate the ball. If we want to go back and look at other years, Denzel Valentine for example, was a guy that dominated the ball a lot. I’ll submit, not as much as Markus, none are as dynamic, though. Saying Izzo doesn’t let his best players dominate the ball, simply isn’t true
So true. Due to injuries, Winston rarely came off the floor. Dominated usage. Clearly more assists, but he has always been a PG. He won't be there when Joey is eligible, though.
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So true. Due to injuries, Winston rarely came off the floor. Dominated usage. Clearly more assists, but he has always been a PG. He won't be there when Joey is eligible, though.
As “Our Kev” would say, “If Cassius Winston goes in front of a bus today, Coach Izzo goes in front of one tomorrow.”
I ran into (pardon the pun) Tony Miller walking on campus once and asked him if he felt any stress about having the ball in his hands all the time...and what it was like having basically the only set of keys to the MU offense/car. He said something to the effect of “I can’t drive it on any vacations or let anyone steal it” and “I better return it to the garage every night without a ding or scratch.”
If Tony had much of a shot, his usage would’ve rivaled Winston’s.
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Can you see the effort in the SUMMER workouts? These guys are busting their butts, and appear almost frenetic. The chemistry is already there. These guys look like a bunch with something to prove. Joey, right or wrong in being disgruntled, had horrible body language almost all year. Goodbye.
Replacing the production of Sam, who always gave his all, is what I’m concerned with.
I think doubters like you.....are in for a big surprise.
Dude, this is my life. It’s my only season ticket subscription, the only team I find a message board for, the only team that consumes my thoughts day and night. I hope you’re right.
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Markus had the highest assist rate on the team and was 125th in the nation.
He was a point guard ball who dominated the ball. He was surrounded by one elite and one outstanding 3 pt shooter. The 125th assist rate in the nation under those circumstances is (IMO) disappointing.
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He was a point guard ball who dominated the ball. He was surrounded by one elite and one outstanding 3 pt shooter. The 125th assist rate in the nation under those circumstances is (IMO) disappointing.
He himself was one of the elite scorers in college basketball, with a 59% TS% on 36% usage. You realize that's insane right? At some point passing is the less efficient play. If there's something to be improved it's turning the ball over under pressure, that to me was the most frustrating part of his game.
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I love having Markus on the team, and I look forward to telling my grandkids someday that I got to watch one of the greatest scorers of his era. I am disappointed in supposed Marquette fans who bash not only his considerable basketball skills but also his character. The latter is especially disturbing.
However ...
Markus simply is not very good at getting teammates involved in the offense. That's OK. It apparently is what Wojo wanted from him last season; if not, Wojo would have corrected it, or at least tried to (and not doing so is a valid criticism of Wojo, IMHO).
Pretending that Markus was good at getting teammates involved last season because he ranked 125th in assists for a team with elite shooters ... that seems a little over the top to me. It's OK to point that out while also saying that, otherwise, Markus has been an amazing Warrior.
I am hoping that the additions of Koby and Symir and the return of GE will make it less necessary for Markus to have the ball 90% of the time this season, and will make him a more efficient, healthier and even more dangerous player this season.
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He was a point guard ball who dominated the ball. He was surrounded by one elite and one outstanding 3 pt shooter. The 125th assist rate in the nation under those circumstances is (IMO) disappointing.
I posted this a few weeks back.
Top 5 candidates listed for the 2020 Cousy Award
Cassius Winston: 44.8 assist rate/17.5 Turnover rate
Markus Howard: 27.2 assist rate/18.4 turnover rate
Tre Jones: 24 assist rate/14.7 turnover rate
Ashton Hagans: 27 assist rate/28.4 turnover rate
Anthony Cowan: 26.1 assist rate/18.6 turnover rate
All those guys played with players as talented, probably more talented than Joey and Sam. Tre Jones is a likely first round pick in the 2020 draft. That’s good company Markus is in for a point guard and his assist rate is quite similar to the best returning point guards save the unicorn, Cassius Winston
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I love having Markus on the team, and I look forward to telling my grandkids someday that I got to watch one of the greatest scorers of his era. I am disappointed in supposed Marquette fans who bash not only his considerable basketball skills but also his character. The latter is especially disturbing.
However ...
Markus simply is not very good at getting teammates involved in the offense. That's OK. It apparently is what Wojo wanted from him last season; if not, Wojo would have corrected it, or at least tried to (and not doing so is a valid criticism of Wojo, IMHO).
Pretending that Markus was good at getting teammates involved last season because he ranked 125th in assists for a team with elite shooters ... that seems a little over the top to me. It's OK to point that out while also saying that, otherwise, Markus has been an amazing Warrior.
I am hoping that the additions of Koby and Symir and the return of GE will make it less necessary for Markus to have the ball 90% of the time this season, and will make him a more efficient, healthier and even more dangerous player this season.
Markus was fine as a shooting guard playing point guard
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I posted this a few weeks back.
Top 5 candidates listed for the 2020 Cousy Award
Cassius Winston: 44.8 assist rate/17.5 Turnover rate
Markus Howard: 27.2 assist rate/18.4 turnover rate
Tre Jones: 24 assist rate/14.7 turnover rate
Ashton Hagans: 27 assist rate/28.4 turnover rate
Anthony Cowan: 26.1 assist rate/18.6 turnover rate
All those guys played with players as talented, probably more talented than Joey and Sam. Tre Jones is a likely first round pick in the 2020 draft. That’s good company Markus is in for a point guard and his assist rate is quite similar to the best returning point guards save the unicorn, Cassius Winston
Thanks for those stats. They are interesting.
I did not see those others play very much and obviously saw Markus play a lot. Maybe I'm relying too much on my "eye test," I acknowledge that. Like you, I've been watching basketball for a long time and have seen a lot of PGs.
Markus was fine as a shooting guard playing point guard
He did the best he could, yes. He's a great scorer, and I'm thrilled he's a Warrior for a 4th year.
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Yep, Markus could have passed more. Yep, Joey could have played better defense and pouted less.
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Markus is here. Joey is not. In conclusion, go Markus.
You’d think that’d be a pretty easy conclusion to come to for people on an MU basketball board. Instead we have people claiming Markus, the guy Andy Katz just ranked his number 2 overall college basketball player going into the 2019-2020 college basketball season, is a cancer.
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And rationalizing for those who left.
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Markus is here. Joey is not. In conclusion, go Markus.
You’d think that’d be a pretty easy conclusion to come to for people on an MU basketball board. Instead we have people claiming Markus, the guy Andy Katz just ranked his number 2 overall college basketball player going into the 2019-2020 college basketball season, is a cancer.
This.
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Markus is here. Joey is not. In conclusion, go Markus.
You’d think that’d be a pretty easy conclusion to come to for people on an MU basketball board. Instead we have people claiming Markus, the guy Andy Katz just ranked his number 2 overall college basketball player going into the 2019-2020 college basketball season, is a cancer.
+1
Go Markus! Go Marquette!
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Markus is here. Joey is not. In conclusion, go Markus.
You’d think that’d be a pretty easy conclusion to come to for people on an MU basketball board. Instead we have people claiming Markus, the guy Andy Katz just ranked his number 2 overall college basketball player going into the 2019-2020 college basketball season, is a cancer.
Well said.
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Markus is here. Joey is not. In conclusion, go Markus.
You’d think that’d be a pretty easy conclusion to come to for people on an MU basketball board. Instead we have people claiming Markus, the guy Andy Katz just ranked his number 2 overall college basketball player going into the 2019-2020 college basketball season, is a cancer.
Well, some people want Wojo - and, by extension, MU - to fail. So they have to rationalize everything through that mindset.
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Well, some people want Wojo - and, by extension, MU - to fail. So they have to rationalize everything through that mindset.
they don't WANT them to fail. they just don't feel MU has the best chance to improve as we stand at the moment. i'm a "half-full" guy. i like our chances better going forward, but we still have to play the games. in some circles, people can have dissenting opinions, and that's o.k.
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they don't WANT them to fail. they just don't feel MU has the best chance to improve as we stand at the moment. i'm a "half-full" guy. i like our chances better going forward, but we still have to play the games. in some circles, people can have dissenting opinions, and that's o.k.
BS. Some people want Wojo out. And they figure the only way is for him to lose and get fired. So, they hope for that. Of course, that means MU failing. Those people would be happy with MU failing if it meant getting rid of Wojo.
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BS. Some people want Wojo out. And they figure the only way is for him to lose and get fired. So, they hope for that. Of course, that means MU failing. Those people would be happy with MU failing if it meant getting rid of Wojo.
Not to mention they would rather be “right.”
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BS. Some people want Wojo out. And they figure the only way is for him to lose and get fired. So, they hope for that. Of course, that means MU failing. Those people would be happy with MU failing if it meant getting rid of Wojo.
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/UnselfishRashEider-size_restricted.gif)
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BS. Some people want Wojo out. And they figure the only way is for him to lose and get fired. So, they hope for that. Of course, that means MU failing. Those people would be happy with MU failing if it meant getting rid of Wojo.
huh? i missed the posts where they said this. yes, some people want wojo out. yes if wojo loses, he will probably get fired and rightly so. but i didn't see any posts stating please please wojo and MU lose so you get fired. the only people that want MU to lose are bucky people
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You did miss the posts because no one would overtly say as much.
Much of the anti-wojo scoopers have to be careful what they say so as to not fall into this trap. Many have therefore been very passive aggressive regarding their hope that wojo will fail (unsaid but implied MU will fail as well).
There are only a few posters who outright will tell you wojo is the wrong coach and they want him out (and they know this means MU has to fail for this to happen).
Why we tip toe around this subject and pretend no one is inferring this in their posts (that they are rooting for MU to fail in recruiting and on the floor this year) is somewhat pathetic.
Read between the passive aggressive lines. People can clammer about how great of fans they have been their whole lives but if they want wojo out they are routing for MU to lose. Can’t have one without the other.
And its really ok to admit it. Especially if you think it’s the best way for the program to be successful again. Just get some balls and say it.
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You did miss the posts because no one would overtly say as much.
Much of the anti-wojo scoopers have to be careful what they say so as to not fall into this trap. Many have therefore been very passive aggressive regarding their hope that wojo will fail (unsaid but implied MU will fail as well).
There are only a few posters who outright will tell you wojo is the wrong coach and they want him out (and they know this means MU has to fail for this to happen).
Why we tip toe around this subject and pretend no one is inferring this in their posts (that they are rooting for MU to fail in recruiting and on the floor this year) is somewhat pathetic.
Read between the passive aggressive lines. People can clammer about how great of fans they have been their whole lives but if they want wojo out they are routing for MU to lose. Can’t have one without the other.
And its really ok to admit it. Especially if you think it’s the best way for the program to be successful again. Just get some balls and say it.
The only caveat, to be fair, is some saying they hope wojo succeeds to the point of getting hired away by an elite.
Otherwise, ya, you're spot on
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Zion was "a hell of a player." KD, as a freshman, was "a hell of a player." Anthony Davis was "a hell of a player."
I can't disagree with this. But that's an almost impossibly high bar -- one no Marquette freshman has possibly ever lived up to. All three were Wooden award winners. Zion and AD were #1 overall picks in the NBA draft (KD was drafted #2).
Joey, as a freshman, had some very good moments ... but, looking at his overall body of work, he was decent. There's no shame in being a decent 10-and-5 guy as a freshman on a good team. Let's not make him out to be something he wasn't.
Again, I don't really disagree with any of this. But as a freshman, Joey performed on a level equal to or better than a number of recent Marquette greats -- including about a half-dozen who ended up in the NBA. I'd say Dominic was better, Markus was probably better, and I somehow left Henry (who was clearly better) off my list. In my eyes, that's more than decent for a freshman. Yes, Joey was inconsistent. Yes, there's plenty of room for improvement in his game. But that's true of most freshmen, even very talented ones.
Apologies if it seems like I'm fixating on the word "decent." But I don't think Izzo would be interested in giving up a scholarship for a year to bring in a "decent" player. My guess is that he believes he's getting someone special in Joey, a player that's only begun to tap his potential.
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You did miss the posts because no one would overtly say as much.
Much of the anti-wojo scoopers have to be careful what they say so as to not fall into this trap. Many have therefore been very passive aggressive regarding their hope that wojo will fail (unsaid but implied MU will fail as well).
There are only a few posters who outright will tell you wojo is the wrong coach and they want him out (and they know this means MU has to fail for this to happen).
Why we tip toe around this subject and pretend no one is inferring this in their posts (that they are rooting for MU to fail in recruiting and on the floor this year) is somewhat pathetic.
Read between the passive aggressive lines. People can clammer about how great of fans they have been their whole lives but if they want wojo out they are routing for MU to lose. Can’t have one without the other.
And its really ok to admit it. Especially if you think it’s the best way for the program to be successful again. Just get some balls and say it.
so shooter, would you say that wojo has been successful so far? i like wojo and i'd have to say so far he really hasn't. if you think he has been successful, then you are part of the problem of those accepting mediocrity when we should be expecting better. i think he could be the right person for MU, but he has to bring it up a COUPLE of notches before we can talk about SUCCESS. that being said, those who don't like wojo are really not MU haters and do not want us to fail. they just don't think he has represented MU the way we need our coach to do so. losing 2 players didn't sit well with them. i get that. if wojo does do well next season with this group of players, which i thjnk he will, they will be cheering as much as anyone else. if wojo fails, they will be leading the charge to get rid of him. i don't think they want to suffer through another year of their lives with suck
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so shooter, would you say that wojo has been successful so far? i like wojo and i'd have to say so far he really hasn't. if you think he has been successful, then you are part of the problem of those accepting mediocrity when we should be expecting better. i think he could be the right person for MU, but he has to bring it up a COUPLE of notches before we can talk about SUCCESS. that being said, those who don't like wojo are really not MU haters and do not want us to fail. they just don't think he has represented MU the way we need our coach to do so. losing 2 players didn't sit well with them. i get that. if wojo does do well next season with this group of players, which i thjnk he will, they will be cheering as much as anyone else. if wojo fails, they will be leading the charge to get rid of him. i don't think they want to suffer through another year of their lives with suck
Rocket
I think everyone is forgetting just how much success Wojo had produced right up until the wheels fell off. I was shocked that we basically blew four chances to secure the outright BigEast title. In hindsight, not only was the team not firing on all cylinders with Markus wearing down due to our thin backcourt....there was a downright insurrection which more and more is looking to have been caused by a Freshman.
The fact that our team got so hosed by the BET refs in the Seton Hall game and yet didn’t respond, at all, in their next game, matchups aside, told me something was wrong. After all, the chip of all chips should have been on their shoulders. None of us knew exactly what it was until weeks later. To be so on the cusp of a championship season and have it fall prey to immaturity and petty divisions....that was tough to take. However, all the signs are pointing to a frenetically charged, united team with both skill and athleticism. Sit back and watch them outperform your expectations. Had nothing changed and attitudes not been righted, this upcoming year would’ve been a massive underachievement anyway. Everything is as it’s supposed to be....the guys who are here truly love MU and want to be here....and the right guy is at the helm of it all.
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Rocket
I think everyone is forgetting just how much success Wojo had produced right up until the wheels fell off. I was shocked that we basically blew four chances to secure the outright BigEast title. In hindsight, not only was the team not firing on all cylinders with Markus wearing down due to our thin backcourt....there was a downright insurrection which more and more is looking to have been caused by a Freshman.
The fact that our team got so hosed by the BET refs in the Seton Hall game and yet didn’t respond, at all, in their next game, matchups aside, told me something was wrong. After all, the chip of all chips should have been on their shoulders. None of us knew exactly what it was until weeks later. To be so on the cusp of a championship season and have it fall prey to immaturity and petty divisions....that was tough to take. However, all the signs are pointing to a frenetically charged, united team with both skill and athleticism. Sit back and watch them outperform your expectations. Had nothing changed and attitudes not been righted, this upcoming year would’ve been a massive underachievement anyway. Everything is as it’s supposed to be....the guys who are here truly love MU and want to be here....and the right guy is at the helm of it all.
you hit on some good stuff here dancer. not much to disagree with. here's the thing-the "never-wojo" guys will say that he, as the grand pooba of the team, should have dealt with the inner turmoil differently, be THE MAN, be the leader, be the coach etc etc... i respect that concern with a few caveats however-
i don't believe there was much he could have done except ride the storm out, cut out the cancer and rally what he had left around perhaps one of the best guards in the country. yes, there was some serious dead tissue left after the cancer was removed, but it seems as though that has been healing. the core group of guys seem to have rallied around wojo. he has got them onboard and focused on the team goals. this is huge because now we have a healthy attitude breading healthy attitudes to the new guys coming in as opposed to a couple of "dividers' poisoning some of the others. the "other guys" were poison and made up their minds way before the end of the season. we won despite them. unfortunately, they were causing a malaise in the locker room. in retrospect, what if wojo would have benche (and rightly so) the freshman cancer right when it first started. that would have taken a set of stones man. but it also would have blown up the team right then and there. markus would surely be gone as we speak and the talk of any chance of having a decent year, this year would be laughable. ya think this would have been smart? so what other recourse did wojo have? he wasn't going to change any minds. i hope some are seeing where the real problem was here, let's say MU doesn't even get joey-the never wojo guys would be pooping themselves- but would have been the best thing to have never happened to us.
i'm a "things happen for a reason" guy. wojo should emerge from this a stronger, wiser coach. let's see
THIS will be a very pivotal year for wojo and MU ball. i understand and respect the "never-wojo" guys because they want to see MU ball back into consistent contender status. we've been tickling the edges of that, then falling back to mediocrity. a step forward, 2 steps back if you will. if wojo can pull this off, it will be a battle to keep him as there are many war wounds to heal. it remains to be seen if they ever do.
at this point, i do not see a name out there who could confidently lead us back to where we all want MU to be. wojo is our best shot at this point. he may come out of this stronger and more focused. i think he's a smart guy with a great background and some great minds to resource from. we must not lose sight of the fact that this is wojo's first real rodeo. if he can't learn from getting kicked by the horses that he tried to ride, then he probably isn't our guy. until then, i'm willing to root like hell for MU anyway.
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so shooter, would you say that wojo has been successful so far? i like wojo and i'd have to say so far he really hasn't. if you think he has been successful, then you are part of the problem of those accepting mediocrity when we should be expecting better. i think he could be the right person for MU, but he has to bring it up a COUPLE of notches before we can talk about SUCCESS. that being said, those who don't like wojo are really not MU haters and do not want us to fail. they just don't think he has represented MU the way we need our coach to do so. losing 2 players didn't sit well with them. i get that. if wojo does do well next season with this group of players, which i thjnk he will, they will be cheering as much as anyone else. if wojo fails, they will be leading the charge to get rid of him. i don't think they want to suffer through another year of their lives with suck
I think he has been successful so far but not as successful as I would like. I see the upside, however, and am very much rooting for him to succeed this year on the recruiting trail and on the court. I believe much greater success is on the horizon for Wojo if this happens. Others after five years are done with him and it’s obvious (and again, that’s ok). They are in the camp of wanting him to fail so that MU can move on quickly but they just wont declare it outright. I’m sure it goes against everything they stand for to secretly want him (MU) to fail but it’s the reality of the situation.
Go Marquette!
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i don't believe there was much he could have done except ride the storm out, cut out the cancer and rally what he had left around perhaps one of the best guards in the country. yes, there was some serious dead tissue left after the cancer was removed, but it seems as though that has been healing. the core group of guys seem to have rallied around wojo. he has got them onboard and focused on the team goals. this is huge because now we have a healthy attitude breading healthy attitudes to the new guys coming in as opposed to a couple of "dividers' poisoning some of the others. the "other guys" were poison and made up their minds way before the end of the season. we won despite them. unfortunately, they were causing a malaise in the locker room. in retrospect, what if wojo would have benche (and rightly so) the freshman cancer right when it first started. that would have taken a set of stones man. but it also would have blown up the team right then and there. markus would surely be gone as we speak and the talk of any chance of having a decent year, this year would be laughable. ya think this would have been smart? so what other recourse did wojo have? he wasn't going to change any minds. i hope some are seeing where the real problem was here, let's say MU doesn't even get joey-the never wojo guys would be pooping themselves- but would have been the best thing to have never happened to us.
Is this what the narrative of the 2018-19 season is gonna be? That we were really good until that cancer Joey Hauser and his brother Sam tanked the season? And that Wojo did everything right and/or that nothing could be done by him to fix the sinking ship?
Seems pretty convenient. The Hausers definitely played their part in the collapse, but it's wishful thinking to believe they were responsible for all of it. Otherwise, why would two coaches who are a heck of a lot more successful than Wojo want to take them on?
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I can't disagree with this. But that's an almost impossibly high bar -- one no Marquette freshman has possibly ever lived up to. All three were Wooden award winners. Zion and AD were #1 overall picks in the NBA draft (KD was drafted #2).
Again, I don't really disagree with any of this. But as a freshman, Joey performed on a level equal to or better than a number of recent Marquette greats -- including about a half-dozen who ended up in the NBA. I'd say Dominic was better, Markus was probably better, and I somehow left Henry (who was clearly better) off my list. In my eyes, that's more than decent for a freshman. Yes, Joey was inconsistent. Yes, there's plenty of room for improvement in his game. But that's true of most freshmen, even very talented ones.
Apologies if it seems like I'm fixating on the word "decent." But I don't think Izzo would be interested in giving up a scholarship for a year to bring in a "decent" player. My guess is that he believes he's getting someone special in Joey, a player that's only begun to tap his potential.
Apologies unnecessary. I probably fixated on the phrase"a hell of a player," too.
I do think we're talking about two different things. I say Joey was decent last season but that he has the potential to be very good. And it is that potential Izzo is banking on.
Maybe I'm not giving Joey's potential enough credit; maybe he will be "a hell of a player" someday. We'll see!
Thanks for the conversation.
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Joey had a good freshman season, and he showed promise to be better. But Izzo giving him a scholarship doesn't necessarily equate with Izzo thinking he'll be a star. Like every team, MSU plays with only one basketball to distribute among 13 scholarship players. Could very well be he thinks Joey will be a solid role player....
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Is this what the narrative of the 2018-19 season is gonna be? That we were really good until that cancer Joey Hauser and his brother Sam tanked the season? And that Wojo did everything right and/or that nothing could be done by him to fix the sinking ship?
Seems pretty convenient. The Hausers definitely played their part in the collapse, but it's wishful thinking to believe they were responsible for all of it. Otherwise, why would two coaches who are a heck of a lot more successful than Wojo want to take them on?
not exactly what i meant, but i think the youngest hauser infected the team, including his older bro. sam is going to be ok. if coach Izzo sees something in the youngster, go for it. i would expect joey to have a pretty good couple of years for michigan st. for 2 reasons:
1) he will have no choice but to do as coach Izzo says and
2) he's going to be playing with a chip the size of gibraltar on his shoulder.
regardless, we are all better off. i feel bad for sam because i think he was caught in the middle. he and markus were really good friends until someone had the gall to tell joey he wasn't doing everything right. note, we haven't lost anyone else since the day after markus declared he is staying. yes, i heard there were a few others who might have left as well, but...they didn't
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not exactly what i meant, but i think the youngest hauser infected the team, including his older bro. sam is going to be ok. if coach Izzo sees something in the youngster, go for it. i would expect joey to have a pretty good couple of years for michigan st. for 2 reasons:
1) he will have no choice but to do as coach Izzo says and
2) he's going to be playing with a chip the size of gibraltar on his shoulder.
regardless, we are all better off. i feel bad for sam because i think he was caught in the middle. he and markus were really good friends until someone had the gall to tell joey he wasn't doing everything right. note, we haven't lost anyone else since the day after markus declared he is staying. yes, i heard there were a few others who might have left as well, but...they didn't
I think too much is made of recruit rankings and all the hype today. Not really fair to these kids. Too much expectations both internally and externally.
Joey had some good skills but reality is he was not materially different than Terrell Schlundt. In fact, I think if Terrell Schlundt played in the three point era , he may have even been marginally better than Joey. Schlundt was also well respected by his teammates and made captain his senior year.
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I posted this a few weeks back.
Top 5 candidates listed for the 2020 Cousy Award
Cassius Winston: 44.8 assist rate/17.5 Turnover rate
Markus Howard: 27.2 assist rate/18.4 turnover rate
Tre Jones: 24 assist rate/14.7 turnover rate
Ashton Hagans: 27 assist rate/28.4 turnover rate
Anthony Cowan: 26.1 assist rate/18.6 turnover rate
All those guys played with players as talented, probably more talented than Joey and Sam. Tre Jones is a likely first round pick in the 2020 draft. That’s good company Markus is in for a point guard and his assist rate is quite similar to the best returning point guards save the unicorn, Cassius Winston
USG%:
Cassius Winston 28.6
Anthony Cowan 26.0
Ashton Hagans 17
Tre Jones 15.1
Markus Howard 37.4
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USG%:
Cassius Winston 28.6
Anthony Cowan 26.0
Ashton Hagans 17
Tre Jones 15.1
Markus Howard 37.4
I’d want Markus’s usage to be about double what Cowan, Hagans, and Jones had. Those 3 are not even the same stratosphere offensively as Markus.
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not exactly what i meant, but i think the youngest hauser infected the team, including his older bro. sam is going to be ok. if coach Izzo sees something in the youngster, go for it. i would expect joey to have a pretty good couple of years for michigan st. for 2 reasons:
1) he will have no choice but to do as coach Izzo says and
2) he's going to be playing with a chip the size of gibraltar on his shoulder.
regardless, we are all better off. i feel bad for sam because i think he was caught in the middle. he and markus were really good friends until someone had the gall to tell joey he wasn't doing everything right. note, we haven't lost anyone else since the day after markus declared he is staying. yes, i heard there were a few others who might have left as well, but...they didn't
Rocket, you’ve made some good points in your posts....I will add that had Markus “corrected” any other 4-star Freshman, though the target’s reaction may have been the same, you’d have to think Sam would’ve been behind Markus, even if he agreed with a couple points the young man made to his elder teammate. I would bet Sam himself understands that to outsiders it sometimes appears Markus is playing “hero ball”..... when in actuality it is within the ridiculously extended “green light” Wojo gives his star guards. If Markus steps back while closely guarded and creates four feet of free space out of thin air before launching a three....is it really a worse shot than Joey or Sam spotting up with the nearest defender four feet away? Markus’s defender is likely unbalanced, all on his heels, trying to re-close that gap while Sam or Joey’s defender is running full speed with arms extended at them. Yes, the BroHaus’ release is quick and they are taller than Markus, and yes they are used to point guards finding them exactly in rhythm ..I’m just saying Markus creates crazy separation in the blink of an eye....that’s his game...and playing to it has earned us tremendous national media coverage and a recruiting bump.
I was watching the Villanova game at an off-track wagering bar with a couple assistant HS coaches in the Northern Chicago burbs and one of them felt Markus was indeed taking bad shots. The other coach adamantly disagreed with him, that Markus is not the prototypical point guard and is playing within the flow and game plan of Wojo, and more importantly...using his individual skillset to disrupt the defense. We were at an OTB so I’m not naming names...I will say that the coach critical of Markus is involved in guard-specific training in the off-season, and one of his biggest focal points for point guards is finding shooters with well-timed crisp passes. I would bet Markus is working on remedying his weaknesses as we speak.
I agree with most everything you have pointed out, Rocket. However, I truly feel it is Markus who will be playing with the Gibraltar-sized chip on his shoulder. Joey will use the year off to reflect on his handling of everything and with some introspection and help from Coach Izzo, I look for him to grow leaps and bounds from a maturity and attitude standpoint. He is going to be a heck of a ballplayer. Sam will be just fine. The poor kid was caught in the crossfire. With the injuries he has played through so valiantly, this year off is a blessing for him.
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Rocket, you’ve made some good points in your posts....I will add that had Markus “corrected” any other 4-star Freshman, though the target’s reaction may have been the same, you’d have to think Sam would’ve been behind Markus, even if he agreed with a couple points the young man made to his elder teammate. I would bet Sam himself understands that to outsiders it sometimes appears Markus is playing “hero ball”..... when in actuality it is within the ridiculously extended “green light” Wojo gives his star guards. If Markus steps back while closely guarded and creates four feet of free space out of thin air before launching a three....is it really a worse shot than Joey or Sam spotting up with the nearest defender four feet away? Markus’s defender is likely unbalanced, all on his heels, trying to re-close that gap while Sam or Joey’s defender is running full speed with arms extended at them. Yes, the BroHaus’ release is quick and they are taller than Markus, and yes they are used to point guards finding them exactly in rhythm ..I’m just saying Markus creates crazy separation in the blink of an eye....that’s his game...and playing to it has earned us tremendous national media coverage and a recruiting bump.
I was watching the Villanova game at an off-track wagering bar with a couple assistant HS coaches in the Northern Chicago burbs and one of them felt Markus was indeed taking bad shots. The other coach adamantly disagreed with him, that Markus is not the prototypical point guard and is playing within the flow and game plan of Wojo, and more importantly...using his individual skillset to disrupt the defense. We were at an OTB so I’m not naming names...I will say that the coach critical of Markus is involved in guard-specific training in the off-season, and one of his biggest focal points for point guards is finding shooters with well-timed crisp passes. I would bet Markus is working on remedying his weaknesses as we speak.
I agree with most everything you have pointed out, Rocket. However, I truly feel it is Markus who will be playing with the Gibraltar-sized chip on his shoulder. Joey will use the year off to reflect on his handling of everything and with some introspection and help from Coach Izzo, I look for him to grow leaps and bounds from a maturity and attitude standpoint. He is going to be a heck of a ballplayer. Sam will be just fine. The poor kid was caught in the crossfire. With the injuries he has played through so valiantly, this year off is a blessing for him.
i like all of this-might i add, the one thing wojo should have tried to make clear in front of the whole team during meetings, film sessions, etc(and maybe he did) was point out areas where markus needs(or needed to) to find sam and/or joey a little more when he felt the pressure of a double/triple team. using the film sessions like they do on tv, focusing on the open areas of the defense and where the defensive player's eyes are focused outwards. where is the soft coverage, weak side? i know this sounds simplistic as during the fast paced flow of the game, it isn't this easy, but this is what they do. anyway, all good stuff dancer
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USG%:
Cassius Winston 28.6
Anthony Cowan 26.0
Ashton Hagans 17
Tre Jones 15.1
Markus Howard 37.4
Considering the differences in usage - and that Markus is not a pass-first PG (let alone the fact he is more naturally a 2G) and that Wojo doesn't structure around a pass-first PG - his TO% is great compared to the others and probably what should be expected for assists
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Considering the differences in usage - and that Markus is not a pass-first PG (let alone the fact he is more naturally a 2G) and that Wojo doesn't structure around a pass-first PG - his TO% is great compared to the others and probably what should be expected for assists
I compared Howard to other extremely high usage guys and found his assist rate to be about average. Most were in the 15-20% TO Rate range. Considering the quality of the league he plays in, that's fine.
There were some extremes, Chris Clemons led the nation in usage and had a 10.8% TO Rate, which is stunning, though playing in the Big South might have something to do with that, while Ja Morant had a 21.9% TO Rate, less than encouraging in the OVC.
Howard should probably be closer to 15, which he was as a sophomore, but while the raw turnover number will always look high--his 3.9 tpg was more than Junior or Derrick ever had despite Howard's 18.4% TO Rate being better than either of those two ever achieved--the amount he turns it over is generally fine.
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--his 3.9 tpg was more than Junior or Derrick ever had despite Howard's 18.4% TO Rate being better than either of those two ever achieved--the amount he turns it over is generally fine.
To be fair. It was hard for Derrick to turn over the ball when all he ever did was dribble 4 feet from half court.
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To be fair. It was hard for Derrick to turn over the ball when all he ever did was dribble 4 feet from half court.
Yep ... this is one reason why some of these stats are not as good as the eye test.
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https://www.mlive.com/sports/2019/07/joey-hauser-fitting-in-quickly-at-michigan-state-after-transferring-from-marquette.html
Still won't publicly say why he left.
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I’d want Markus’s usage to be about double what Cowan, Hagans, and Jones had. Those 3 are not even the same stratosphere offensively as Markus.
So between 30.2 and 52? I'd prefer something between 28 and 34. And bTW, I didn't pick these guys - Uncle Rico did.
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So between 30.2 and 52? I'd prefer something between 28 and 34. And bTW, I didn't pick these guys - Uncle Rico did.
Right. And you pointed out their usage. And if those players' usages are up there, then Markus's should be even higher than where it was, as Markus compared to those players offensively is like LeBron compared to Evan Turner.