MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Herman Cain on June 25, 2019, 01:13:39 PM

Title: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: Herman Cain on June 25, 2019, 01:13:39 PM
The Big East has scored an important victory by getting U Conn back in the fold under terms of surrender.  While U Conn basketball  is down , I view it as a temporary thing , more a function of them absorbing the next coach after a legend and less of their being in a sub-optimal conference.  I think with Coach Hurley they should be healthy enough to begin making the  tournament in the next few years. 

The on court benefits and rivalry aspects that enhance attendance are pretty straightforward. However , I believe there is an intangible aspect that also  helps the league .  The fact that we are now seen as not only a survivor ,but desirable is a very important consideration. On top of that the atmosphere outside MSG at the BET will be enhanced with several thousand  more Huskie fans milling around. BET has been gaining momentum selling 99.7 of capacity and I think this development will only enhance the tournament appeal to the see and bee seen types . When the BET becomes a see and bee seen type  event that  is important to league media hype. New York City is the media capital and amplifies these things.

When contract renewal comes around, I expect ESPN, and potentially NBC Sports, to  make a very healthy bid against Fox. In the short run the league has been gaining more broadcast network exposure on Fox and CBS and this new development will only enhance that trend.
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 25, 2019, 02:44:04 PM
Agreed on all counts Herman. While we may not be able to raid the P5 conferences (at least not yet...I have this crazy dream where the Big 12 gets divided among the other 4 P5 conferences and we convince Kansas to pull a UConn), this should put to rest any belief that the AAC is even close to comparable to the Big East. There wasn't really a logical argument before but the fact that a football school would rather be in our conference with independent or low major football than be in the AAC should end all debate. It reminds me of when fans of a certain A10 program were convinced that the C7 would be crawling to them for help....right before we took their top two programs from them.
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: Johnny B on June 25, 2019, 03:43:58 PM
Would be nice to get perhaps at least a small deal with ESPN to have some games. That way they can promote the Big East more without worrying they are just touting a fox asset
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: NorthernDancerColt on June 25, 2019, 03:45:16 PM
The Big East has scored an important victory by getting U Conn back in the fold under terms of surrender.  While U Conn basketball  is down , I view it as a temporary thing , more a function of them absorbing the next coach after a legend and less of their being in a sub-optimal conference.  I think with Coach Hurley they should be healthy enough to begin making the  tournament in the next few years. 

The on court benefits and rivalry aspects that enhance attendance are pretty straightforward. However , I believe there is an intangible aspect that also  helps the league .  The fact that we are now seen as not only a survivor ,but desirable is a very important consideration. On top of that the atmosphere outside MSG at the BET will be enhanced with several thousand  more Huskie fans milling around. BET has been gaining momentum selling 99.7 of capacity and I think this development will only enhance the tournament appeal to the see and bee seen types . When the BET becomes a see and bee seen type  event that  is important to league media hype. New York City is the media capital and amplifies these things.

When contract renewal comes around, I expect ESPN, and potentially NBC Sports, to  make a very healthy bid against Fox. In the short run the league has been gaining more broadcast network exposure on Fox and CBS and this new development will only enhance that trend.

Excellent post, Herman. Let’s not forget the contributions all our institutions’ great fans have made to make this league a success. People who get blasé about this have to understand how small our schools’ enrollments are. As Jay Wright has noted many times, the focus on basketball and the atmosphere in all of these buildings is what makes this league special.
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on June 25, 2019, 04:04:36 PM
Would be nice to get perhaps at least a small deal with ESPN to have some games. That way they can promote the Big East more without worrying they are just touting a fox asset

Haha.  I think MU was on more ESPN network (not counting the ACC Network) games last season than Vtech. 
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 25, 2019, 04:09:36 PM
Great post - I agree 100%.

Looking forward to some exciting MU-UConn games again.
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 25, 2019, 04:16:24 PM
Great post - I agree 100%.

Looking forward to some exciting MU-UConn games again.

Looking to attending more "home games" for me!
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 25, 2019, 04:20:27 PM
Looking to attending more "home games" for me!

Agree - couldn't be more excited about this from a local perspective.
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 25, 2019, 07:27:25 PM
Agree - couldn't be more excited about this from a local perspective.


 8-)
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: mileskishnish72 on June 25, 2019, 08:20:37 PM
Looking to attending more "home games" for me!

With you, CT.
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: Mr. Nielsen on June 25, 2019, 09:35:52 PM
Hearing UConn ticket office is being overworked. They tripled for NEW season ticket holders sales in the past three days.
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 25, 2019, 11:07:47 PM
Hearing UConn ticket office is being overworked. They tripled for NEW season ticket holders sales in the past three days.

You know, on first blush, I thought UConn was going to have to drop football to make the finances work, but I think they may come out of this looking like geniuses. This reinvigorates ticket sales, they can put their football games on SNY, travel costs for all sports are significantly lowered, and they can ship their football team to be a buy game for most of the season and just collect paychecks.
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: Marcus92 on June 26, 2019, 06:04:35 AM
You know, on first blush, I thought UConn was going to have to drop football to make the finances work, but I think they may come out of this looking like geniuses.

Geniuses? Only in contrast to their foolish decision-making regarding football. UConn has poured hundreds of millions of dollars into a strategy that nobody outside the state saw as viable. They seem to have finally hit bottom, come to their senses and recognized the situation for what it is. That's good -- but hardly genius-level.
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on June 26, 2019, 07:57:47 AM
Geniuses? Only in contrast to their foolish decision-making regarding football. UConn has poured hundreds of millions of dollars into a strategy that nobody outside the state saw as viable. They seem to have finally hit bottom, come to their senses and recognized the situation for what it is. That's good -- but hardly genius-level.

I would agree its hyperbolic to call it genius.  However, its a solid recognition of how things the landscape changed and its the best they can hope for (similar to the rest of the C7). 

I would disagree that the strategy/bet on football was unsound at the time.  It ultimately turned out to be 5 years too late.  UConn had elite bball at the time of the decision and saw that being a basketball only school was going to result in being left out of the major conferences.  As the flagship state school with 30K+ in attendance, they had the look and feel of other schools that got included in the big-boy conferences.  They only needed to replicate IU/Northwestern/Boston College type football success to get consideration.  In the end their position in between the NY & Boston market is the downfall in that they dont really deliver either market (my opinion).  In addition to the football program did not gain enough credibility prior to the split of the Big East. 
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: IrwinFletcher on June 26, 2019, 08:44:45 AM
Was UConn basketball elite because they cheated or were they good and just happened to get caught?

If the reigns are tightened by their administration and the NCAA, can they get back to what they were, or close to it?
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: IrwinFletcher on June 26, 2019, 08:49:14 AM
The Big East has scored an important victory by getting U Conn back in the fold under terms of surrender.  While U Conn basketball  is down , I view it as a temporary thing , more a function of them absorbing the next coach after a legend and less of their being in a sub-optimal conference.  I think with Coach Hurley they should be healthy enough to begin making the  tournament in the next few years. 

The on court benefits and rivalry aspects that enhance attendance are pretty straightforward. However , I believe there is an intangible aspect that also  helps the league .  The fact that we are now seen as not only a survivor ,but desirable is a very important consideration. On top of that the atmosphere outside MSG at the BET will be enhanced with several thousand  more Huskie fans milling around. BET has been gaining momentum selling 99.7 of capacity and I think this development will only enhance the tournament appeal to the see and bee seen types . When the BET becomes a see and bee seen type  event that  is important to league media hype. New York City is the media capital and amplifies these things.

When contract renewal comes around, I expect ESPN, and potentially NBC Sports, to  make a very healthy bid against Fox. In the short run the league has been gaining more broadcast network exposure on Fox and CBS and this new development will only enhance that trend.

I think this is a key point that was glossed over a bit.

We all have been waiting to see if Football and the P5 conferences go off on their own and who, if anyone, they take with.  The BE was fighting it out with the AAC, Atlantic 10 and other west coast conferences to establish themselves as the next best conference.  The League’s success these past few years has firmly established the BE as the leader of the pack, but bringing UConn in not only fortifies the conference and further separates us from the others, it further weakens our closest conference competitor.

I still think there are some issues with bringing in an institution with a checkered past and one that doesn’t quite fit with the other 10 members overall philosophy, but it was a good strategic move to strengthen the league while simultaneously weakening an “opponent”.
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: Babybluejeans on June 26, 2019, 08:51:58 AM
The idea that the Big East is in a position to poach rather than be poached is a great point, Herman. One I hadn’t considered amidst the good news of UConn’s return.

It’s amazing how adding one more solid brand like UConn—even if their men’s bb is a down period—makes the conference feel so much stronger. Can’t explain why but it feels like a small void in the conference has been filled.
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: muwarrior69 on June 26, 2019, 04:50:37 PM
Do you think Xavier would let Cincinnati back in if the asked or is their football program that good it could be invited to the Big XII?

I still don't know how Rutgers managed to get into the B1G.
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: Billy Hoyle on June 26, 2019, 05:57:24 PM
Do you think Xavier would let Cincinnati back in if the asked or is their football program that good it could be invited to the Big XII?

I still don't know how Rutgers managed to get into the B1G.

Cincy blocked X for so long with the BE there's no chance X would vote for them to join. It's similar to BC blocking UConn to the ACC (retribution for the lawsuit when BC left the BE).  Cincy wouldn't want to do that. Their new president spent millions to try and get a B12 invite leading up to 2016 and will continue to fight to go down that road. Football is a major investment for them too that is actually successful, unlike UConn.
https://www.uc.edu/content/dam/uc/president/docs/CaseStatement-Big12.pdf

As for Rutgers: Getting the BTN on local cable TV in NYC and the metro area. Rutgers only got in due to location.

I'm not sure can call the BE a "winner' in a "round" in which they were the only ones playing...unless you're also taking into account UMKC ditching the WAC for the Summit Conference.
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: Herman Cain on June 26, 2019, 06:52:48 PM
Super proud of our Big East leaders . They drove a hard bargain and got U Conn to agree to a very large exit fee , sliding scale starting at 30 million scaling to 10 bars on years based on years, fully acknowledging potential disruptions . 3.5 million up front prior to press conference .

https://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-huskies/hc-sp-clb-uconn-big-east-contract-20190626-20190626-44voas7itffazjtcnrseuaspeu-story.html
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: MU Fan in Connecticut on June 26, 2019, 08:10:46 PM
Cincy blocked X for so long with the BE there's no chance X would vote for them to join. It's similar to BC blocking UConn to the ACC (retribution for the lawsuit when BC left the BE).  Cincy wouldn't want to do that. Their new president spent millions to try and get a B12 invite leading up to 2016 and will continue to fight to go down that road. Football is a major investment for them too that is actually successful, unlike UConn.
https://www.uc.edu/content/dam/uc/president/docs/CaseStatement-Big12.pdf

As for Rutgers: Getting the BTN on local cable TV in NYC and the metro area. Rutgers only got in due to location.

I'm not sure can call the BE a "winner' in a "round" in which they were the only ones playing...unless you're also taking into account UMKC ditching the WAC for the Summit Conference.

Chicos answered this one a million times.  There's 10 million people in New Jersey and that's a lot of cable subscribers to increase the Big 10 Network carriage fee (versus say 3.5 million people in Connecticut).  (Of course this was before people started switching to streaming.)
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on June 26, 2019, 09:15:46 PM
Super proud of our Big East leaders . They drove a hard bargain and got U Conn to agree to a very large exit fee , sliding scale starting at 30 million scaling to 10 bars on years based on years, fully acknowledging potential disruptions . 3.5 million up front prior to press conference .

https://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-huskies/hc-sp-clb-uconn-big-east-contract-20190626-20190626-44voas7itffazjtcnrseuaspeu-story.html

Recouping the exit fees we paid UConn last time?
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: tower912 on June 26, 2019, 09:18:59 PM
https://ph.news.yahoo.com/winners-and-losers-of-the-decade-of-realignment-in-college-sports-224801059.html
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: Herman Cain on June 26, 2019, 10:19:52 PM
One other tidbit found in the deal. U Conn prohibited from soliciting Power 5 football conferences . Our Bug East guys did a a great job protecting the the league as a whole.

Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: Cheeks on June 26, 2019, 10:23:58 PM
Chicos answered this one a million times.  There's 10 million people in New Jersey and that's a lot of cable subscribers to increase the Big 10 Network carriage fee (versus say 3.5 million people in Connecticut).  (Of course this was before people started switching to streaming.)

Don’t forget most people still pay for TV vs streaming, that will be the case for some time.
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: brewcity77 on June 26, 2019, 10:31:28 PM
Curious about the details of the P5 ban. Does it list specific conferences? What if two football leagues merged, could they join a new conference that doesn't exist today?

That clause alone could flip my feelings on this deal. Especially if it's for the full 10 years of the buyout.
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: Herman Cain on June 26, 2019, 10:37:56 PM
Curious about the details of the P5 ban. Does it list specific conferences? What if two football leagues merged, could they join a new conference that doesn't exist today?

That clause alone could flip my feelings on this deal. Especially if it's for the full 10 years of the buyout.
The agreement specifically outlines the leagues by name. I immediately thought of your concern when reading that.

The preamble in the agreement very clearly lays out the whole instability issue and how much damage it could cause. Very well thought out.

The terms of surrender here are very strong.

We also made them U Conn put the entrance fee up two days in advance of the press conference . Obviously the trust level was quite low.
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: Herman Cain on June 27, 2019, 07:45:29 PM
Villanova will have its whole schedule pretty much in place every year. 20 game Big East . 4 Big 5 games, a Gavitt  a Big 12 game and 3 preseason tourney. Not much room for cupcakes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inquirer.com/college-sports/big-east-conference-uconn-connecticut-val-ackerman-announcement-20190627.html%3FoutputType%3Damp
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: brewcity77 on June 27, 2019, 07:53:09 PM
Villanova will have its whole schedule pretty much in place every year. 20 game Big East . 4 Big 5 games, a Gavitt  a Big 12 game and 3 preseason tourney. Not much room for cupcakes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inquirer.com/college-sports/big-east-conference-uconn-connecticut-val-ackerman-announcement-20190627.html%3FoutputType%3Damp

I actually wonder if this might signal the end of the Big 5 as we know it. With the AAC going to 11 after losing UConn and not looking to replace them, they could also go straight to a 20-game round robin, which would mean a similar scheduling crunch for Temple. I could see that being a casualty as those games are really risky to be the guaranteed wins for a team like 'Nova.
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: Mr. Nielsen on June 27, 2019, 08:11:02 PM
Rotate with Temple, St. Joe's, LaSalle and Penn. Villanova could play 2 of the 4 each season. I guess it depends how big the Big 5 series really is in 2020.
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: Herman Cain on June 27, 2019, 09:22:39 PM
I actually wonder if this might signal the end of the Big 5 as we know it. With the AAC going to 11 after losing UConn and not looking to replace them, they could also go straight to a 20-game round robin, which would mean a similar scheduling crunch for Temple. I could see that being a casualty as those games are really risky to be the guaranteed wins for a team like 'Nova.
The Big 5 is a Philly basketball culture thing that none of those teams want to give up.
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: The Equalizer on June 28, 2019, 07:36:34 AM
Villanova will have its whole schedule pretty much in place every year. 20 game Big East . 4 Big 5 games, a Gavitt  a Big 12 game and 3 preseason tourney. Not much room for cupcakes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inquirer.com/college-sports/big-east-conference-uconn-connecticut-val-ackerman-announcement-20190627.html%3FoutputType%3Damp

I think the pre-season tournament only counts as one game against scheduling limits.


Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: brewcity77 on June 28, 2019, 04:20:08 PM
The Big 5 is a Philly basketball culture thing that none of those teams want to give up.

So?
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: Herman Cain on June 28, 2019, 04:51:56 PM
So?
If you ever lived in Philly you would understand what it is all about .
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: brewcity77 on June 29, 2019, 06:31:27 AM
If you ever lived in Philly you would understand what it is all about .

The point isn't whether they want it but if keeping it becomes feasible. When you are playing for a bid, you need wins. Villanova's loss to Penn is a problem, but in the long run Temple's odds of getting an at-large will be just as important. Similarly, the continued existence of the Big 5 will impact the ability to generate revenue due to decreased home games.

I get that they want to keep the Big 5. But between revenue, NCAA bid possibilities, and the simple evolving reality of diminishing non-conference scheduling, it may become a relic of the past that can't be retained.
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: Uncle Rico on June 29, 2019, 07:00:47 AM
The point isn't whether they want it but if keeping it becomes feasible. When you are playing for a bid, you need wins. Villanova's loss to Penn is a problem, but in the long run Temple's odds of getting an at-large will be just as important. Similarly, the continued existence of the Big 5 will impact the ability to generate revenue due to decreased home games.

I get that they want to keep the Big 5. But between revenue, NCAA bid possibilities, and the simple evolving reality of diminishing non-conference scheduling, it may become a relic of the past that can't be retained.

The Big 5 didn’t have their current and historical format from 91-99.  It was considered a big mark against Rollie Massinino’s legacy.

Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: Herman Cain on July 04, 2019, 11:21:09 PM
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/27099127/uconn-sees-recruiting-bump-big-east-move
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: Herman Cain on July 20, 2019, 03:23:30 PM
An alternative prospective on UConn joining the Big East
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.providencejournal.com/sports/20190626/kevin-mcnamara-uconns-return-great-for-big-east-but-how-about-friars%3Ftemplate%3Dampart
Title: Re: Big East Is The Winner In This Round Of Conference Expansion
Post by: source? on July 20, 2019, 11:21:33 PM
If current BE schools can't hack it, then we are lucky UConn is picking up the slack. I think we'll be just fine.