MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: MUMonster03 on May 29, 2019, 04:53:20 AM
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Now that Hausergate has finally come to a conclusion, are there any players we are in on to fill the remaining 2 scholarships available for next year?
I haven't heard anything on grad or traditional transfers in a while and there are a few 19 HS kids out there that are still uncommitted.
Os Symir still looking at reclassifying or has that ship sailed? I don't remember the timeline on Markus's reclassification.
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It appears there will not be any more additions. Symir reportedly still needs some classes and therefore cannot reclassify.
So:
G: Markus, Koby, Greg, Akanno, Sacar.
F: Cain, Bailey.
Big: Theo, Ed, Jayce, Ike.
Going to see some deviations from the 4 out offense. May see two posts and three guards at times. I hope both Theo and Ed are working on their 12-15 foot jump shot. Decent size and depth at guard. I see Akanno as similar to Sacar as a freshman. Ike continues to be a mystery and a wild card. My expectations for him are low this season as he tries to get D1 ready after sitting two years with the back issues. He may never pan out. But, man, I would hate to just give up on him.
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My fear is that this roster will leave us with depth problems.
One of the concerns I had last year was that toward February and March, we were gassed. In our truly good years under the Cowboy, we were 11 to 12 deep. With Ike uncertain and Akanno as a freshman, we will require lots of minutes from our Top 7.
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If sacar continues to hit from outside at a respectable rate like he did end of last year, Cain can bounce back, Koby looks like he did at Utah St, Bailey makes a jump like his dad from Frosh to soph and Greg is developing as expected then I honestly don't see a major issue with the guard roster.
If Cain looks lost again, Greg shows he's rusty, Koby looks out classed, Bailey shows two years off was enough to lose his skill and sacar shows it was a fluke he started to hit threes then it'll be a long year of Markus looking like Tony Smith.
Chico's is right it's a Guards game, and right now we seem to have a lot of age from our guards and wings but a lot of question marks.
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I still think this is a top 25 team. Koby looks like an offensive spark plug in a way Chartourney never did. No reason to think Sacar won’t continue to improve; that’s all he’s done since arriving on campus. If Theo can get his fouls under control we can see a huge increase in his productivity just as a function of more minutes. The big question is how much of Sam and Joey can Jamal and Brendan replace. It won’t be 100%, but they’ll be an upgrade on defense.
Sam was a very good college player, but he wasn’t DWade. The guys we have can still succeed next season.
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Now that Hausergate has finally come to a conclusion, are there any players we are in on to fill the remaining 2 scholarships available for next year?
I haven't heard anything on grad or traditional transfers in a while and there are a few 19 HS kids out there that are still uncommitted.
Os Symir still looking at reclassifying or has that ship sailed? I don't remember the timeline on Markus's reclassification.
Whoever Wojo signs to replace the Hausers will surely be better than those ungrateful turncoats
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My fear is that this roster will leave us with depth problems.
One of the concerns I had last year was that toward February and March, we were gassed. In our truly good years under the Cowboy, we were 11 to 12 deep. With Ike uncertain and Akanno as a freshman, we will require lots of minutes from our Top 7.
Those teams were never 11 deep.
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Those teams were never 11 deep.
Agree. Those teams also never seemed to be worn out by playing a full season either.
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Whoever Wojo signs to replace the Hausers will surely be better than those ungrateful turncoats
I agree with this analysis
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Agree. Those teams also never seemed to be worn out by playing a full season either.
Boot Camp?
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If sacar continues to hit from outside at a respectable rate like he did end of last year, Cain can bounce back, Koby looks like he did at Utah St, Bailey makes a jump like his dad from Frosh to soph and Greg is developing as expected then I honestly don't see a major issue with the guard roster.
If Cain looks lost again, Greg shows he's rusty, Koby looks out classed, Bailey shows two years off was enough to lose his skill and sacar shows it was a fluke he started to hit threes then it'll be a long year of Markus looking like Tony Smith.
Chico's is right it's a Guards game, and right now we seem to have a lot of age from our guards and wings but a lot of question marks.
Big If's there
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Big If's there
We do have a lot of ifs. That's part of the reason for many to be pessimistic, but it's also exciting in its own way for those who allow themselves to be even a little optimistic.
I doubt all of the "ifs" will turn out in our favor, because that's not realistic, but even if only a few do, we can be a fun-to-watch, dangerous, NCAA tourney team.
I haven't made a prediction about next season's team because I don't have to -- and because I really don't know what to expect other than Markus having a huge year. Let's see what we have on Nov. 1, again what we have on Jan. 1, and mostly, what we have happening in mid-March.
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We do have a lot of ifs. That's part of the reason for many to be pessimistic, but it's also exciting in its own way for those who allow themselves to be even a little optimistic.
I doubt all of the "ifs" will turn out in our favor, because that's not realistic, but even if only a few do, we can be a fun-to-watch, dangerous, NCAA tourney team.
I haven't made a prediction about next season's team because I don't have to -- and because I really don't know what to expect other than Markus having a huge year. Let's see what we have on Nov. 1, again what we have on Jan. 1, and mostly, what we have happening in mid-March.
It will be interesting to see what the board members jot down as their game by game predictions. As of now, I think we will surprise quite a few people. Playing with a chip on their shoulder. Think this time will have the personality of what Wojo was when he played.
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Whoever Wojo signs to replace the Hausers will surely be better than those ungrateful turncoats
lol.
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Boot Camp?
I wish more coaches did things like this. Nolan Richardson used to devote a significant part of practice to intense conditioning drills, and his teams never seemed to wear down. And it certainly doesn't appear to have hurt Buzz's teams.
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Boot camp and defense. Freshmen not getting minutes until they understood their defensive responsibilities. Not installing the offense until after the season started. Lack of two way bigs. 6-7 man rotations. All things that used to infuriate Buzz's critics.
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Boot camp and defense. Freshmen not getting minutes until they understood their defensive responsibilities. Not installing the offense until after the season started. Lack of two way bigs. 6-7man rorations. All things that used to infuriate Buzz's critics.
And whenever we blew a late lead it was blamed on tired legs, short rotations, late season fatigue from boot camp.
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I am very bullish on the prospects for this years team. I believe the team chemistry will be strong. Very enthusiastic about Jamal and Brendan. Also the return of Greg is going to add a dimension we were missing last year. Overall this team has the physical make up of what it will take to compete at the Big East level this year.
The Big East will be stronger this year, so our record might not be quite as good as last year, but I expect it to be close.
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Those teams were never 11 deep.
+1
In 2014, our 9/10/11 would've been JJ, Taylor, & Dawson, all of whom were routinely getting single digit minutes or DNPs down the stretch.
In 2013, it was Mayo, Taylor, & Thomas. Only Todd was routinely getting double-digit minutes.
In 2012, we didn't even have 11 players playing. Jones & Derrick were bit players at the end of the bench.
In 2011, we didn't have 11 players playing. Erik Williams got a few starts to keep Jae from the early foul, but him, Gardner, & Fulce barely played.
In 2010, we didn't even have enough players to go 5-on-5 in practice.
In 2009, it was a pretty tight 6-man rotation until James' injury forced Acker & Cubillan to play a bit more. Still never more than 7 deep at any one time.
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Outside of Markus, there’s a serious lack of high end talent on this team. Everybody besides him would be, at best, a role player on a good team. I think 19-20 will be a lot like Buzz’s last season; we’ll be close in a lot of games, but just not quite good enough to get over the hump. Probable NIT team, but might make the NCAAs if things fall our way in some of those close games. And yes, before someone reminds me, I realize that Buzz missed the NIT his last year here.
This is my honest, objective assessment of the coming year based on what I’ve seen from our returning players in previous seasons. Wojo will need to have that huge 2020 recruiting class everyone’s talking about to get things back on track.
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Boot camp and defense. Freshmen not getting minutes until they understood their defensive responsibilities. Not installing the offense until after the season started. Lack of two way bigs. 6-7 man rotations. All things that used to infuriate Buzz's critics.
I think you forgot grades and the alleged off-court issues...which seem to be what ultimately messed with his happy.
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Agree. Those teams also never seemed to be worn out by playing a full season either.
They're 20 year old kids. Playing a 30 game schedule.
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And whenever we blew a late lead it was blamed on tired legs, short rotations, late season fatigue from boot camp.
Late season fatigue? Think you have Buzz confused with Wojo.
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They're 20 year old kids. Playing a 30 game schedule.
I dont know why you are quoting me. I agree....I was responding to someone who said we seemed gassed and that Buzz played a deeper bench (as a causal to why we were gassed).
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I am hopeful we can still grab a grad / decommit wing/PF type, and a traditional transfer to fill the last 2 spots. Unlikely at this point though.
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I dont know why you are quoting me. I agree....I was responding to someone who said we seemed gassed and that Buzz played a deeper bench (as a causal to why we were gassed).
Wasn't trying to argue any point with you. I was just furthering the conversation.
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Outside of Markus, there’s a serious lack of high end talent on this team. Everybody besides him would be, at best, a role player on a good team. I think 19-20 will be a lot like Buzz’s last season; we’ll be close in a lot of games, but just not quite good enough to get over the hump. Probable NIT team, but might make the NCAAs if things fall our way in some of those close games. And yes, before someone reminds me, I realize that Buzz missed the NIT his last year here.
This is my honest, objective assessment of the coming year based on what I’ve seen from our returning players in previous seasons. Wojo will need to have that huge 2020 recruiting class everyone’s talking about to get things back on track.
Absolutely disagree
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Outside of Markus, there’s a serious lack of high end talent on this team. Everybody besides him would be, at best, a role player on a good team. I think 19-20 will be a lot like Buzz’s last season; we’ll be close in a lot of games, but just not quite good enough to get over the hump. Probable NIT team, but might make the NCAAs if things fall our way in some of those close games. And yes, before someone reminds me, I realize that Buzz missed the NIT his last year here.
This is my honest, objective assessment of the coming year based on what I’ve seen from our returning players in previous seasons. Wojo will need to have that huge 2020 recruiting class everyone’s talking about to get things back on track.
Koby is an unknown. Everybody else has been at best a role player on a good team, time to see if someone can make the jump
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Koby is an unknown. Everybody else has been at best a role player on a good team, time to see if someone can make the jump
Yep, I see it as a wait and see. How many Step up, how many don't. Maybe not a good season, maybe a Big Happy surprise.
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Yep, I see it as a wait and see. How many Step up, how many don't. Maybe not a good season, maybe a Big Happy surprise.
Count me in the corner of Brendan Bailey being the dude that steps up this year
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Count me in the corner of Brendan Bailey being the dude that steps up this year
I'm in that corner too.
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Count me in the corner of Brendan Bailey being the dude that steps up this year
Have never seen what others see in BB. Certainly some talent there, but didn’t seem to have a high BB IQ. Took a lot of forced shots and with the exception of a streak toward then end, shot poorly. Not a great rebounder on the defensive end and didn’t see many glimpses of being able to pass all that well.
Hope I’m wrong and that he proves to be much more than a 15mpg guy.
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Have never seen what others see in BB. Certainly some talent there, but didn’t seem to have a high BB IQ. Took a lot of forced shots and with the exception of a streak toward then end, shot poorly. Not a great rebounder on the defensive end and didn’t see many glimpses of being able to pass all that well.
Hope I’m wrong and that he proves to be much more than a 15mpg guy.
In conference, had an offensive rating of 117.2 and real shooting % of 54.5%. Definitely needs to continue to work on shooting from deep. Didn’t show the same rebounding capacity as Joey.
He was also off a 2-year mission. He was a 4-star recruit out of high school, so he wasn’t recruited as some project. I get the concerns, I think the chance for a big leap is there, though.
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Count me in the corner of Brendan Bailey being the dude that steps up this year
Yeah, I feel the same way, and certainly it will help in replacing some of Sam's offense.
And one of the other things I'll like to see is more of Sacar's Short Jumper. It seems if he misses early he doesn't go back to it, kind of the dilemma of an unselfish player.
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Not sure where this should go but Myles Powell is returning to Seton Hall.
Certainly gonna be buying tickets to that game next year. Hope Sacar torches him for 30.
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Not sure where this should go but Myles Powell is returning to Seton Hall.
Certainly gonna be buying tickets to that game next year. Hope Sacar torches him for 30.
LJ Figueroa also coming back to The Johnnies.
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I am very bullish on the prospects for this years team. I believe the team chemistry will be strong. Very enthusiastic about Jamal and Brendan. Also the return of Greg is going to add a dimension we were missing last year. Overall this team has the physical make up of what it will take to compete at the Big East level this year.
The Big East will be stronger this year, so our record might not be quite as good as last year, but I expect it to be close.
+1000
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Have never seen what others see in BB. Certainly some talent there, but didn’t seem to have a high BB IQ. Took a lot of forced shots and with the exception of a streak toward then end, shot poorly. Not a great rebounder on the defensive end and didn’t see many glimpses of being able to pass all that well.
Hope I’m wrong and that he proves to be much more than a 15mpg guy.
I am expecting Brendan taking a big step up. Hopefully, he adds at least ten pounds of muscle during the offseason. Remember he actually started the first couple of games last season. There was a reason for this. However, he just was not quite ready to deliver.
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As far as I can tell here's the list of Big East players who were testing the NBA Waters:
Davion Mintz: Returning
Martin Krampelj: Gone to Draft
Jayce Johnson: Returning
Alpha Diallo: Returning
Shamorie Ponds: Gone to Draft
Justin Simon: Gone to Draft
Myles Powell: Returning
Caleb Daniels (Incoming Nova transfer): Returning
Quentin Goodin: Returning
Tyrique Jones: Returning
Naji Marshall: Returning
Paul Scruggs: Returning
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Most surprising departure is Creighton's Martin Krampelj. Leaves McDermott with a talented but tiny roster. Only 1 guy taller than 6'7" and he's coming off a major injury. Only 2 guys taller than 6'5" and yes Herman I know you are a big fan of Christian Bishop.
Even though they'll be a better team next year than they were this year, I think we go back to our pattern of sweeping them. Our current roster matches up with them a lot better than last year's. We've got a lot of guards/wings with long wingspans to challenge their tiny shooters.
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Most surprising departure is Creighton's Martin Krampelj. Leaves McDermott with a talented but tiny roster. Only 1 guy taller than 6'7" and he's coming off a major injury. Only 2 guys taller than 6'5" and yes Herman I know you are a big fan of Christian Bishop.
Even though they'll be a better team next year than they were this year, I think we go back to our pattern of sweeping them. Our current roster matches up with them a lot better than last year's. We've got a lot of guards/wings with long wingspans to challenge their tiny shooters.
Krampelj was a 24 year old junior so im guessing his age had to do with him leaving
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Late season fatigue? Think you have Buzz confused with Wojo.
2009 we lost last 4 regular season games
2011, I think was the year, we finished 3-4 the last 7 reg season games.
Buzz’s last year I believe we lost the last 3 or 4 regular season games
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Wow ... St. John's might finish 11th in the BEast next season.
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Wow ... St. John's might finish 11th in the BEast next season.
Could be. They have a great top 2 in Mustapha Heron and LJ Figueroa. They also have two solid transfers coming in Eli Wright and David Caraher. After that? Get's really dicey. They have no proven PG, either Greg Williams Jr will need to step up huge (and he's more of a 2 than a 1 IMHO) or true freshman Jonathan McGriff (#348 247composite) will need to be a major diamond in the rough.
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Could be. They have a great top 2 in Mustapha Heron and LJ Figueroa. They also have two solid transfers coming in Eli Wright and David Caraher. After that? Get's really dicey. They have no proven PG, either Greg Williams Jr will need to step up huge (and he's more of a 2 than a 1 IMHO) or true freshman Jonathan McGriff (#348 247composite) will need to be a major diamond in the rough.
Yeah, not much depth to play Mike Anderson's aggressive style of play.
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Most surprising departure is Creighton's Martin Krampelj. Leaves McDermott with a talented but tiny roster. Only 1 guy taller than 6'7" and he's coming off a major injury. Only 2 guys taller than 6'5" and yes Herman I know you are a big fan of Christian Bishop.
Even though they'll be a better team next year than they were this year, I think we go back to our pattern of sweeping them. Our current roster matches up with them a lot better than last year's. We've got a lot of guards/wings with long wingspans to challenge their tiny shooters.
The Creighton MU series has been a good one. Yes, Creighton will be a small team next year, but with their style of play and lots of talented guys it is hard to just put Creighton in the two wins for us category. As you rightly point out we match up better this year.
When this board comes out with our game by game predictions in the fall , I will probably be in the camp that we can get two wins from them, but that could change if McDermott somehow recruits a competent grad transfer big to replace Krampelj. Also as you point out we don't know which form of Epperson Creighton is getting , the one that looked promising as a freshman or the injury riddled sophomore. If Epperson back on form then the analysis is different .
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Wow ... St. John's might finish 11th in the BEast next season.
Anybody else think it is funny that DePaul won 7 Big East games and still finished tied for last.
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2009 we lost last 4 regular season games
2011, I think was the year, we finished 3-4 the last 7 reg season games.
Buzz’s last year I believe we lost the last 3 or 4 regular season games
09 they played 3 NCAA 1 seeds and a 3 seed who won the BET. Maybe the toughest end of regular season ever.
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Outside of Markus, there’s a serious lack of high end talent on this team. Everybody besides him would be, at best, a role player on a good team. I think 19-20 will be a lot like Buzz’s last season; we’ll be close in a lot of games, but just not quite good enough to get over the hump. Probable NIT team, but might make the NCAAs if things fall our way in some of those close games. And yes, before someone reminds me, I realize that Buzz missed the NIT his last year here.
This is my honest, objective assessment of the coming year based on what I’ve seen from our returning players in previous seasons. Wojo will need to have that huge 2020 recruiting class everyone’s talking about to get things back on track.
But wait...what about all the posts here that Wojo has MU trending in an upward trajectory? Something does not seem right with one of those analysis.
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So.... shut the whole thing down, Willie?
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So.... shut the whole thing down, Willie?
Never said that, but you just did.
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Willie is a back bencher who simply complains. Best to be ignored.
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Never said that, but you just did.
I think Tower is onto something. Shut it down until a Scoop approved coach is hired.
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09 they played 3 NCAA 1 seeds and a 3 seed who won the BET. Maybe the toughest end of regular season ever.
Often wondered how we would've done in that stretch had james been eligible. I know we were solid but we did have some concerning losses (Dayton, South Florida). We hadn't really hit the hard stretch of the season yet till he went down.
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Never said that, but you just did.
You be you, Willie.
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But wait...what about all the posts here that Wojo has MU trending in an upward trajectory? Something does not seem right with one of those analysis.
You're right, we already know we will be worse than this past season. Let's not even play the season.
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So.... shut the whole thing down, Willie?
Shutting the whole thing down would be a bit too far. However, we certainly didn't need to extend Wojo's contract.
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Symbols and timing matter. It was a vote of confidence from the administration which will help counter negative recruiting about his job status.
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As tower was hoping for, here is Ed working on his jump shot.
https://twitter.com/marquettembb/status/1134218101812338688?s=21
He will be playing at the same time as Theo and JJ.
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Shutting the whole thing down would be a bit too far. However, we certainly didn't need to extend Wojo's contract.
A completely symbolic gesture to help with recruiting. No big deal I’d they want him out after next year.
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As tower was hoping for, here is Ed working on his jump shot.
https://twitter.com/marquettembb/status/1134218101812338688?s=21
He will be playing at the same time as Theo and JJ.
Coach Johnson needs to get his hands up to contest. ;D. Ed is going to play some 4. The pieces sort themselves.
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I didn't see Ed attempt a single shot outside of 6 feet during either of the open practices I watched last year. It's good to see him working to expand his game -- even if he's still the 4th or 5th option on offense.
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If Theo and Ed can both hit the 12-15 ft jumper with any kind of consistency, the overall offense will be just fine.
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Almost all of our wins in the first half of the season were nail biters. The second half did not go so well. Maybe the team just was not that good. Maybe the team can be better with out the Hausers.
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09 they played 3 NCAA 1 seeds and a 3 seed who won the BET. Maybe the toughest end of regular season ever.
Yes, it was a tough stretch....Crean left him a loaded team and if Tyshawn hadn't left, who knows what that team could have done. Also, a few weeks earlier we also lost to South Florida if I recall. My point was the mythology that all of Buzz's teams finished the regular season without faltering wasn't always the case.
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If Theo and Ed can both hit the 12-15 ft jumper with any kind of consistency, the overall offense will be just fine.
What in the world makes you believe that Theo AND Ed can hit 15’ jumpers with consistency? Neither one have ever done it in their careers and I don’t see that changing. But, I would certainly welcome the sharp shooting tandem to take this team to the next level.
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I'd bet the under on anything in the double digits in field goals made from outside of 10 feet from either Theo or Ed next season.
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What in the world makes you believe that Theo AND Ed can hit 15’ jumpers with consistency? Neither one have ever done it in their careers and I don’t see that changing. But, I would certainly welcome the sharp shooting tandem to take this team to the next level.
I don't expect them to suddenly channel Novak or the Hausers. A little Damon Key would be nice. And I never discount the possibility of season to season improvement.
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I still don't get how anyone can possibly think MU will be anything special next year. It's still so depressing to me to think about what they WERE going to be next year with Sam and Joey...I'm not saying they will be bad at all, but considering what they were going to be, next year is sure to be a major let down.
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I still don't get how anyone can possibly think MU will be anything special next year. It's still so depressing to me to think about what they WERE going to be next year with Sam and Joey...I'm not saying they will be bad at all, but considering what they were going to be, next year is sure to be a major let down.
Then it would have been a major let down either way. Wojo failed to keep that team’s chemistry at a high level. It’ll at least be a different team next year. One that will hopefully mesh better than last year’s team.
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Then it would have been a major let down either way. Wojo failed to keep that team’s chemistry at a high level. It’ll at least be a different team next year. One that will hopefully mesh better than last year’s team.
Maybe so, but NOT as talented, and that's a problem
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I still don't get how anyone can possibly think MU will be anything special next year. It's still so depressing to me to think about what they WERE going to be next year with Sam and Joey...I'm not saying they will be bad at all, but considering what they were going to be, next year is sure to be a major let down.
Nothing like dwelling on the “what might’ve been”s all through life.
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I still don't get how anyone can possibly think MU will be anything special next year. It's still so depressing to me to think about what they WERE going to be next year with Sam and Joey...I'm not saying they will be bad at all, but considering what they were going to be, next year is sure to be a major let down.
The team is going to be tremendous this coming season. The guys are going to work so much better together and the team will be so much more athletic. The Big East is going to be tougher this year and the line up we have will be able to compete very well. Team Chemistry matters.
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The team is going to be tremendous this coming season. The guys are going to work so much better together and the team will be so much more athletic. The Big East is going to be tougher this year and the line up we have will be able to compete very well. Team Chemistry matters.
Chemistry matters Herman, but you know what else matters immensely?? Talent matters..Yes, the BE is going to be tougher, and that would have been fine if MU still had all their pieces, but they don't, so instead of a possible BE championship, we are probably looking at a 5th place finish at best?? I want to believe Jamal and Brendan improve enough to make a difference(and believe me I hope they do), but there is zero chance they can come close to replacing what Sam and Joey would have brought.
They may be able to compete well...but how many games will they win?? That's what ultimately matters.
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Chemistry matters Herman, but you know what else matters immensely?? Talent matters..Yes, the BE is going to be tougher, and that would have been fine if MU still had all their pieces, but they don't, so instead of a possible BE championship, we are probably looking at a 5th place finish at best?? I want to believe Jamal and Brendan improve enough to make a difference(and believe me I hope they do), but there is zero chance they can come close to replacing what Sam and Joey would have brought.
They may be able to compete well...but how many games will they win?? That's what ultimately matters.
Eat at Arby’s
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I'd bet the under on anything in the double digits in field goals made from outside of 10 feet from either Theo or Ed next season.
If you watch this video from Practice today and look at the other end of the court..Ed knocks in 3 straight 3's...
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1134261637450555392
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09 they played 3 NCAA 1 seeds and a 3 seed who won the BET. Maybe the toughest end of regular season ever.
+1 And all without our most important player. Chico will move goal posts and massage stats to get their proper "effect" but has no interest in the truth. Bottom line, Buzz was 8-5 in the tournament and made the second weekend 3x more often than any coach post Al. Looking tired and falling apart down the stretch were NOT trademarks of the Buzz era. Period.
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Chemistry matters Herman, but you know what else matters immensely?? Talent matters..Yes, the BE is going to be tougher, and that would have been fine if MU still had all their pieces, but they don't, so instead of a possible BE championship, we are probably looking at a 5th place finish at best?? I want to believe Jamal and Brendan improve enough to make a difference(and believe me I hope they do), but there is zero chance they can come close to replacing what Sam and Joey would have brought.
They may be able to compete well...but how many games will they win?? That's what ultimately matters.
We are going to be more like a Crean/Buzz style team this year. Tough and Athletic. Jamal and Brendan both have high ceilings and with more consistent minutes we will see great things from them. Also both of those guys are team oriented guys, not ball dependent and hustle. Greg Elliott was an impact player as a freshman , in fact one of his best games was against Villanova and their great back court. Elliott was also a team oriented player. We are going to see a lot of good ball movement and ultimately that is going to result in many more clean looks for Markus.
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We are going to be more like a Crean/Buzz style team this year. Tough and Athletic.
Not guaranteed, but wojo may have an "aha!" moment this year.
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Greg Elliott was an impact player as a freshman
no.
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He exceeded expectations for a 3 star playing one handed.
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Not guaranteed, but wojo may have an "aha!" moment this year.
Mae just bee gas pains, aina?
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Mae just bee gas pains, aina?
Mite bee bad philling
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The team is going to be tremendous this coming season. The guys are going to work so much better together and the team will be so much more athletic. The Big East is going to be tougher this year and the line up we have will be able to compete very well. Team Chemistry matters.
9-9-9, it's nice to see you so excited about the team Wojo has put together and the coaching job you must be expecting him to do next season.
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He exceeded expectations for a 3 star playing one handed.
Showed potential. Sometimes it's realized, sometimes not - lots of players fall into both categories. But a thousand miles from being an impact player.
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Showed potential. Sometimes it's realized, sometimes not - lots of players fall into both categories. But a thousand miles from being an impact player.
I'm with you, Lenny. I hope like heck that Greg turns out to be 50-75% as good as his biggest proponents expect him to be. If so, he'll be a decent rotation player. If he exceeds that, he'll be very valuable. I'm certainly rooting for it.
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I don't expect them to suddenly channel Novak or the Hausers. A little Damon Key would be nice. And I never discount the possibility of season to season improvement.
Well, if they both start consistently hit 15’ footers...that will be the equivalent of a Novak campaign!
I think the improvement this season will come in minimizing fouls.
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+1 And all without our most important player. Chico will move goal posts and massage stats to get their proper "effect" but has no interest in the truth. Bottom line, Buzz was 8-5 in the tournament and made the second weekend 3x more often than any coach post Al. Looking tired and falling apart down the stretch were NOT trademarks of the Buzz era. Period.
Youndon’t Have to agree, but I noticed you also didn’t comment about his last year....hmmm
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Funny to read guru incessantly talk about the Hausers lost offense yet not mention a peep about below average defense and the lack of transition offense with them out there.
Hmmmmm
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What in the world makes you believe that Theo AND Ed can hit 15’ jumpers with consistency? Neither one have ever done it in their careers and I don’t see that changing. But, I would certainly welcome the sharp shooting tandem to take this team to the next level.
Theo has struggled with 15 footers when unguarded and the clock stopped
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We will be crazy athletic this year, gonna be fun to watch
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It appears from the above comments Wojo has benefited from loosing the Hausers as our bench more than fills their roles. Some might suggest UVA and MSU are each going to have an additional bench warmer named Hauser. I feel bad for UVA and MSU. What were Tony Bennett and Tom Izzo thinking? I can not wait for next season to see Wojo doing his magic and as our athletic team obliterates the competition. Must admit I did not see the logic at first but hey I am beginning to see how this all works out.
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We will be crazy athletic this year, gonna be fun to watch
Yeah I just don’t see that. We will be more athletic no doubt, but no more that dozens of other teams.
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+1 And all without our most important player. Chico will move goal posts and massage stats to get their proper "effect" but has no interest in the truth. Bottom line, Buzz was 8-5 in the tournament and made the second weekend 3x more often than any coach post Al. Looking tired and falling apart down the stretch were NOT trademarks of the Buzz era. Period.
Moral: Bring back Buzz?
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Mite bee bad philling
Or sellabreytin unuthir kontrac axtenuation.
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Funny to read guru incessantly talk about the Hausers lost offense yet not mention a peep about below average defense and the lack of transition offense with them out there.
Hmmmmm
Well...I'm going to say this slowly so you understand..basketball is a very simple game...you determine a winner by who has the most points at the end of a game. So while yes, they should be better defensively and in transition, what YOU seem to fail to understand is they will NOT be as good offensively. So if they give up say as an example...68 points per game, but only score 66 points per game...68 is greater than 66, therefore, they lose those games Sand knit. Great to be better defensively, but if you can't score...what good is it?? You talk about their bad defense and slow feet, but NEVER mention how big of a gaping hole offensively they are leaving...Sam especially. That's 15PPG that left. How do you propose they replace that??
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Koby averaged 15 as a sophomore. Done. Bailey was playing better than Joey over the last 10 games.
Losing the Hausers means Marquette is not a preseason top 10. I am not saying it doesn't hurt. But I choose to look for ways to make lemonade. And 64 minutes walking out the door is viewed as an opportunity for others to step up. It is the nature of the college game that players are replaced constantly. We just had to replace Sam a year early.
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Well...I'm going to say this slowly so you understand..basketball is a very simple game...you determine a winner by who has the most points at the end of a game. So while yes, they should be better defensively and in transition, what YOU seem to fail to understand is they will NOT be as good offensively. So if they give up say as an example...68 points per game, but only score 66 points per game...68 is greater than 66, therefore, they lose those games Sand knit. Great to be better defensively, but if you can't score...what good is it?? You talk about their bad defense and slow feet, but NEVER mention how big of a gaping hole offensively they are leaving...Sam especially. That's 15PPG that left. How do you propose they replace that??
Offensive can be generated off better defense with transition opportunities that didn’t exist as often with the Hausers.
Does it cover the half court execution that was there with the Hausers? I’d say not fully but the offense can still be good if different.
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Koby averaged 15 as a sophomore. Done. Bailey was playing better than Joey over the last 10 games.
Losing the Hausers means Marquette is not a preseason top 10. I am not saying it doesn't hurt. But I choose to look for ways to make lemonade. And 64 minutes walking out the door is viewed as an opportunity for others to step up. It is the nature of the college game that players are replaced constantly. We just had to replace Sam a year early.
If Koby can pick up most of the offensive slack of Sam Hauser we will be alright offensively. Defensively we will fine on-ball and help defense. My biggest concern next year will be defensive rebounding. Ed will need to play a ton of minutes as he is the only one I trust on the defensive end to rebound.
Yes Johnson and John will provide some rebounding too but the center position in Wojo's defense seems to be highly counted on to shore up perimeter defense issues and thus is rarely in position to rebound well. That means Ed will need to play the '4' position.
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Koby averaged 15 as a sophomore. Done. Bailey was playing better than Joey over the last 10 games.
Losing the Hausers means Marquette is not a preseason top 10. I am not saying it doesn't hurt. But I choose to look for ways to make lemonade. And 64 minutes walking out the door is viewed as an opportunity for others to step up. It is the nature of the college game that players are replaced constantly. We just had to replace Sam a year early.
This is all well and good, but what I think so many fail to understand is that whatever Koby and whoever else brought this year was going to be in ADDITION to the 15PPG Sam brought. So let's say Koby averaged 12PPG and Sam was still there, those were "bonus" points. Now they are a necessity. So if Koby(hypothetically) was going to score those 12PPG WITH Sam, Ok that replaces Sam's production(essentially), but then who replaces Koby's production?? Bailey?? Okay, then who replaces what Bailey would have given you etc etc. It has an effect on the entire roster. Guys that may not be capable, have to step up, where as before, they could have been role players in situations that they were probably best suited for.
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This is all well and good, but what I think so many fail to understand is that whatever Koby and whoever else brought this year was going to be in ADDITION to the 15PPG Sam brought. So let's say Koby averaged 12PPG and Sam was still there, those were "bonus" points. Now they are a necessity. So if Koby(hypothetically) was going to score those 12PPG WITH Sam, Ok that replaces Sam's production(essentially), but then who replaces Koby's production?? Bailey?? Okay, then who replaces what Bailey would have given you etc etc. It has an effect on the entire roster. Guys that may not be capable, have to step up, where as before, they could have been role players in situations that they were probably best suited for.
No one fails to understand that. That's the reason people are projecting us to a fringe top-25 team rather than a top-10 team. The most likely reality is we simply won't be as good.
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This is all well and good, but what I think so many fail to understand is that whatever Koby and whoever else brought this year was going to be in ADDITION to the 15PPG Sam brought. So let's say Koby averaged 12PPG and Sam was still there, those were "bonus" points. Now they are a necessity. So if Koby(hypothetically) was going to score those 12PPG WITH Sam, Ok that replaces Sam's production(essentially), but then who replaces Koby's production?? Bailey?? Okay, then who replaces what Bailey would have given you etc etc. It has an effect on the entire roster. Guys that may not be capable, have to step up, where as before, they could have been role players in situations that they were probably best suited for.
Basketball is a dynamic game not static. The new team structure will be able to supply the points needed to win. Markus will be the leading scorer most games. There will be a rotation of players who are the second leading scorer depending on match ups. MU will play an exciting brand of fast break basketball.
One other important factor , is that MU will have a much more appealing group of guys when recruits come in for their official visits.
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Basketball is a dynamic game not static. The new team structure will be able to supply the points needed to win. Markus will be the leading scorer most games. There will be a rotation of players who are the second leading scorer depending on match ups. MU will play an exciting brand of fast break basketball.
One other important factor , is that MU will have a much more appealing group of guys when recruits come in for their official visits.
I agree with this analysis.
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Basketball is a dynamic game not static. The new team structure will be able to supply the points needed to win. Markus will be the leading scorer most games. There will be a rotation of players who are the second leading scorer depending on match ups. MU will play an exciting brand of fast break basketball.
One other important factor , is that MU will have a much more appealing group of guys when recruits come in for their official visits.
why do you think the guys will be more appealing?
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Basketball is a dynamic game not static. The new team structure will be able to supply the points needed to win. Markus will be the leading scorer most games. There will be a rotation of players who are the second leading scorer depending on match ups. MU will play an exciting brand of fast break basketball.
One other important factor , is that MU will have a much more appealing group of guys when recruits come in for their official visits.
Care to expand on this?
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No one fails to understand that. That's the reason people are projecting us to a fringe top-25 team rather than a top-10 team. The most likely reality is we simply won't be as good.
Exactly...But yet, a lot don't want to admit that or see it...they try to say/think it will be okay if...well, the reality is, this team will NOT be as good as they were going to be. Talent matters, and MU lost two talented players..I mean you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.
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Exactly...But yet, a lot don't want to admit that or see it...they try to say/think it will be okay if...well, the reality is, this team will NOT be as good as they were going to be. Talent matters, and MU lost two talented players..I mean you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.
Take a look at this video of Jamal. He has added a good ten pounds of muscle.
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1134261637450555392
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One other important factor , is that MU will have a much more appealing group of guys when recruits come in for their official visits.
Hmmm. Supported by what facts?
My biggest concern next year will be defensive rebounding. Ed will need to play a ton of minutes as he is the only one I trust on the defensive end to rebound.
Yes Johnson and John will provide some rebounding too but the center position in Wojo's defense seems to be highly counted on to shore up perimeter defense issues and thus is rarely in position to rebound well. That means Ed will need to play the '4' position.
Haven't we read that Johnson is an elite rebounder? Do you really think he'll be 20 feet from the basket on defense often? I hope not.
Offensive can be generated off better defense with transition opportunities that didn’t exist as often with the Hausers.
Does it cover the half court execution that was there with the Hausers? I’d say not fully but the offense can still be good if different.
I think this is very important, U.R. We had almost no transition offense last season. So few easy baskets off of steals, deflections, etc. Hopefully we will get several of those per game next season because we'll need them.
Yeah I just don’t see that. We will be more athletic no doubt, but no more that dozens of other teams.
I have to agree with this, based on what I've seen so far. Maybe Greg has a lot more to show us, Koby is an otherworldly athlete, etc. I hope that's all true. There are a lot of very athletic teams out there, including many in the BEast.
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When since after the first year has scoring points been an issue for MU? Guess what? It wont be this year either. And adding Kobys 12 to Sams 15 would not equal 27 thats completely illigical. Only so many possesions n shots. Bottom line is we will improve tremendously on defense n will score in transition, in my opinion more than compensating for the loss of Sam. Joey is a wash, brendan n jamal arguably better anyway.
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If Theo and Ed can both hit the 12-15 ft jumper with any kind of consistency, the overall offense will be just fine.
Well, the stats say that we don't want anyone trying to make 12-15 footers, because those are highly inefficient shots. I certainly don't want Ed and Theo hoisting those regularly when NBA players only make 40% of their shots from only 8-9 feet away.
Good stuff here: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-mapping-shots-in-the-nba-changed-it-forever/
(https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-mapping-shots-in-the-nba-changed-it-forever/)
"As it turns out, NBA players make only 40 percent of their shots between 8 and 9 feet from the rim, and that number drops to only 35 percent between 25 and 26 feet from the rim...If it’s true that 3-point shots go in 36 percent of the time and 10-foot shots go in just 40 percent of the time, then why are we assigning 50 percent more value to shots from beyond that magical little arc?"
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The more of gurus posts i read the more i am concerned about his cognitive abilities. To literally think that adding kiby would have us scoring 12 more points a game is troubling.
Also odd that texas tech played virginia in the national championship game the two beat defensive teams in the country coupled with the fact that we have been one of the best offnsive teams in the nation under wojo yet it has provided us with zero NcAa wins. Keep pining those offensive numbers tho guru
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Exactly...But yet, a lot don't want to admit that or see it...they try to say/think it will be okay if...well, the reality is, this team will NOT be as good as they were going to be. Talent matters, and MU lost two talented players..I mean you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.
Well we can either play the season with what we have or fold tents and sleep until November 2020. You make do with what you have, not what you wish you had. People are looking at what this team is. That can't be changed, and all the complaining in the world won't do it.
Basically, you can deal with it or live in fairyland. Most are dealing with reality. Up to you if you want to do the same. But complaining won't bring the Hausers back.
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Well...I'm going to say this slowly so you understand..basketball is a very simple game...you determine a winner by who has the most points at the end of a game. So while yes, they should be better defensively and in transition, what YOU seem to fail to understand is they will NOT be as good offensively. So if they give up say as an example...68 points per game, but only score 66 points per game...68 is greater than 66, therefore, they lose those games Sand knit. Great to be better defensively, but if you can't score...what good is it?? You talk about their bad defense and slow feet, but NEVER mention how big of a gaping hole offensively they are leaving...Sam especially. That's 15PPG that left. How do you propose they replace that??
Say it as slowly as u would like guru, it does not make what you saying any more logical or correct. Did MU score 10 more points a game last year after adding Joey from the year before? It doesnt work that way, no matter how u spin it
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Well we can either play the season with what we have or fold tents and sleep until November 2020. You make do with what you have, not what you wish you had. People are looking at what this team is. That can't be changed, and all the complaining in the world won't do it.
Basically, you can deal with it or live in fairyland. Most are dealing with reality. Up to you if you want to do the same. But complaining won't bring the Hausers back.
Exactly, wouldnt it be ideal if guru just disappeared until this time next year?
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The whole point of this thread was to move on to discuss next year. Now it’s stuck in the “what abou the Hausers” nonsense.
Aren’t there a dozen other threads to discuss them?
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Well we can either play the season with what we have or fold tents and sleep until November 2020. You make do with what you have, not what you wish you had. People are looking at what this team is. That can't be changed, and all the complaining in the world won't do it.
Basically, you can deal with it or live in fairyland. Most are dealing with reality. Up to you if you want to do the same. But complaining won't bring the Hausers back.
The loss of Joey is not a big deal, they can make up for his 10 points. But the loss of Sam is huge, he flat out was the best shooter at MU from distance for a forward since Steve Novak. The boys are smart splitting up since they really are the same player. MU will be fine next year if they play as a team and Markus does just not play
hero ball. In saying that, Wojo has to put the other players in a position to score. To many time last year, particularly the last few games, Markus and Sam had to take
bad shots once the play broke down.
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Well we can either play the season with what we have or fold tents and sleep until November 2020. You make do with what you have, not what you wish you had. People are looking at what this team is. That can't be changed, and all the complaining in the world won't do it.
Basically, you can deal with it or live in fairyland. Most are dealing with reality. Up to you if you want to do the same. But complaining won't bring the Hausers back.
This, of course.
We no longer have Dwyane Wade, Butch Lee or Mike Moran, either.
The title of this thread is "Moving on to the 19-20 Season." The Hausers are about as relevant to the discussion of the 2019-20 team as those long-ago former Marquette players are.
Wojo doesn't need to "replace" anybody. He needs to maximize the talent and production of the players who have chosen to be Warriors in 2019-20.
The two most important words in the thread title are "Moving on."
There are other threads to lament the absence of players who no longer wanted to be Warriors.
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Exactly, wouldnt it be ideal if guru just disappeared until this time next year?
Alright Sand..acknowledging your "only so many possessions in a game", to be factual..with limited possessions..it's logical to assume you want to maximize every possession..so..I think we all know 3pts>2pts. That's the biggest element gone that's not coming back..who replaces that part of it?
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Alright Sand..acknowledging your "only so many possessions in a game", to be factual..with limited possessions..it's logical to assume you want to maximize every possession..so..I think we all know 3pts>2pts. That's the biggest element gone that's not coming back..who replaces that part of it?
Reasonable point, guru. We absolutely will miss the Hausers' 3-point shooting. The ability to adequately space the floor -- and actually hit long jumpers -- is probably my biggest concern next season.
Hopefully, several players who want to be Warriors will be able to help in this regard. Koby, Sacar, BB, etc. But they have much to prove, and much respect to earn. If I were the opposing coach, I would hound Markus relentlessly and otherwise pack my defense into the lane until a few Marquette players prove they can hit shots consistently.
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Alright Sand..acknowledging your "only so many possessions in a game", to be factual..with limited possessions..it's logical to assume you want to maximize every possession..so..I think we all know 3pts>2pts. That's the biggest element gone that's not coming back..who replaces that part of it?
You are oversimplifying things. It is true we are losing a great 3-pt shooter. But, he wasn't a threat to drive. 3 point shooting percentages increase on a kick out, and you are more likely to get open looks when you attack the rim.
So, although the remaining players aren't as good of a shooter as Sam, they are better off the bounce, which should lead to increased 3-pt shooting for everyone.
The net difference may negligible. We'll have to play the games and see.
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Exactly...But yet, a lot don't want to admit that or see it...they try to say/think it will be okay if...well, the reality is, this team will NOT be as good as they were going to be. Talent matters, and MU lost two talented players..I mean you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.
Other than maybe MSK, I don't think anyone thinks we are better next year without the Hausers than with them. I think everyone is aware of that reality.
I also think there are some who think next year's team will be better than last year's team despite the loss of the Hausers. On paper, we should be. Improvement from all the returning players and the additions of Koby/Greg/Jayce/Dexter/Ike should be better greater than the loss of the Hausers/Joe/Heldt. Question for me is the offensive game plan. The roster we have will not work with what Wojo has been running the past 4 years. Can he run a different offense to highlight the talents of our roster? How that question is answered could be the difference between a 3 seed and a bubble team.
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The loss of Joey is not a big deal, they can make up for his 10 points.
IMO, most people are severely underestimating Joey based on the last 1/3 of the season. Yes, he was poor defensively, just like most freshmen. But he had a ton of talent and I expect he will continue to show the same year-to-year improvements as most every other player.
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Wojo has to realize that the offense got stale at the end of the season. With the 3 guard or 4 guard system they will be playing next season, they have to open up more avenues to drive and kick the ball out much like Giannis does for the Bucks. Koby, Howard and Sacar will be on the court alot next year. Hope they can play team
ball.
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Exactly...But yet, a lot don't want to admit that or see it...they try to say/think it will be okay if...well, the reality is, this team will NOT be as good as they were going to be. Talent matters, and MU lost two talented players..I mean you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.
Agree. it's laughable to think Sam and Joey are easily replaceable and we have the players to do it. These two young men ended up at top shelf programs. It is going to be very hard to replace them. Maybe some of the guys who have yet to play a minute will excel. I hope so because if they do not this team could easily struggle to .500 in conference.
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IMO, most people are severely underestimating Joey based on the last 1/3 of the season. Yes, he was poor defensively, just like most freshmen. But he had a ton of talent and I expect he will continue to show the same year-to-year improvements as most every other player.
I am not sold on Joey yet. Plays below the rim, decent moves not great, will shoot the ball much better in 2 years. Sort of slow a foot. Seemed like a mental midget the
last month of the season. I think he has a lot to work on.
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Reasonable point, guru. We absolutely will miss the Hausers' 3-point shooting. The ability to adequately space the floor -- and actually hit long jumpers -- is probably my biggest concern next season.
Hopefully, several players who want to be Warriors will be able to help in this regard. Koby, Sacar, BB, etc. But they have much to prove, and much respect to earn. If I were the opposing coach, I would hound Markus relentlessly and otherwise pack my defense into the lane until a few Marquette players prove they can hit shots consistently.
This is a homerun post MU82..it's easy to say "they will be more of a driving team next year", but as you so aptly stated, driving is MUCH MUCH easier when you have guys that can stretch the floor and allow the adequate spacing to drive. Your opposing defensive philosophy is also spot on...why wouldn't anyone play this MU team that way?? If I'm an opposing Coach and I can get Markus to give up the ball as much as possible..I'm going to take my chances with that every single time.
Sure, Sacar, Bailey etc will have games where they seemingly can't miss from 3(it happens), but as you say, the worry is the consistency from 3 that Sam and Joey brought from behind the arc.
My biggest concern next year is shooting in general, and even moreso 3 point shooting.
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I am not sold on Joey yet. Plays below the rim, decent moves not great, will shoot the ball much better in 2 years. Sort of slow a foot.
This could pretty much describe Sam after his freshman year as well.
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Agree, Joey did a little bit more than Sam did as a freshman, but Sam had a certain confidence factor that Joey does not have.
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On the three point shooting. We have been spoiled the past three seasons. We have been an ELITE three point shooting team. Among the best in the country every year.
We most likely will not be an elite three point shooting team next season. But that does not mean we will be a bad three point shooting team. The average team 3P% last season was around 34%. Just because we won't be hitting 39-42% of our 3Ps next season doesn't mean our 3P shooting will be a weakness.
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I think the quality of our three point shots this coming season will go up. This years team will be moving the ball around a lot more to the open man . Markus ,in particular ,is going to get cleaner looks. Greg, Jamal, Sacar and Koby can all make open threes.
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On the three point shooting. We have been spoiled the past three seasons. We have been an ELITE three point shooting team. Among the best in the country every year.
We most likely will not be an elite three point shooting team next season. But that does not mean we will be a bad three point shooting team. The average team 3P% last season was around 34%. Just because we won't be hitting 39-42% of our 3Ps next season doesn't mean our 3P shooting will be a weakness.
But they have been dependent on that elite 3 pt shooting the last three years, and were going to be again this year. The % WILL drop off, so then what?? That has to be made up for somehow
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During this year’s Nova game at Fiserv, Sacar hit a couple consecutive shots from deep. Jay Wright’s reaction to this was to look back at his assistant coaches and laugh mockingly. This, to me, sums up what opposing coaches will think of us this year. They’ll give everyone not named Markus open shots all day, every day until someone proves they can hit with consistency. And none of our other guys are half as good as Sam was from deep, and they’re all worse than Joey was, too. Maybe Bailey can get to Joey’s level this year. But I understand where guru is coming from.
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But they have been dependent on that elite 3 pt shooting the last three years, and were going to be again this year. The % WILL drop off, so then what?? That has to be made up for somehow
Better defense, better driving, better post play, better ball control, better ball movement...etc.
Not saying that it will be made up for, just pointing out that just because our 3P shooting gets worse, doesn't mean it will be bad. I think it will be average to above average this season.
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But they have been dependent on that elite 3 pt shooting the last three years, and were going to be again this year. The % WILL drop off, so then what?? That has to be made up for somehow
By driving, by getting to the line, by putting back offensive boards, by having other guys make threes, literally any way the basketball is scored. Or, more likely, there will be falloff. And if so, too bad, so sad, but the point of the thread is "Moving on".
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By driving, by getting to the line, by putting back offensive boards, by having other guys make threes, literally any way the basketball is scored. Or, more likely, there will be falloff. And if so, too bad, so sad, but the point of the thread is "Moving on".
Honestly, you confuse me sometimes Brew...YOU have said that our expectations for next year can't be lower because of what happened, and because MU was "pimping" out all the preseason ranking stuff etc". I'm wondering how they adjust this coming year(19-20), which is the title of the thread, right?? I just don't get how you can get on me for wondering about next year and how they will live up to the expectations you yourself said can't be lowered?? By your own admission above you say "too bad, so sad" that they won't be as good, you're right, they won't be...and that's where the confusion sets in...if the expectations are to be a top 10 team(again YOU were the one saying expectations can't be lowered), then how can you just say "they won't be as good", but still have the expectation(s) that they will be?? ?-(
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Honestly, you confuse me sometimes Brew...YOU have said that our expectations for next year can't be lower because of what happened, and because MU was "pimping" out all the preseason ranking stuff etc". I'm wondering how they adjust this coming year(19-20), which is the title of the thread, right?? I just don't get how you can get on me for wondering about next year and how they will live up to the expectations you yourself said can't be lowered?? By your own admission above you say "too bad, so sad" that they won't be as good, you're right, they won't be...and that's where the confusion sets in...if the expectations are to be a top 10 team(again YOU were the one saying expectations can't be lowered), then how can you just say "they won't be as good", but still have the expectation(s) that they will be?? ?-(
I believe this is what you are looking for. They’re going to stink because the Hausers are gone and it’s impossible to replicate their scoring and any attempt at it is foolhardy. /fin
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Ed looking like hes got a smooth shot in the MUBB insta
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I believe this is what you are looking for. They’re going to stink because the Hausers are gone and it’s impossible to replicate their scoring and any attempt at it is foolhardy. /fin
Not at all what I'm looking for...I don't want them to stink. I'm "discussing" next year. Trying to figure out how they replace what they lost, is discussing next year. It's no different then discussing how they will replace Markus, Sacar and Ed when they leave. I hope Brew will have the same snarky response to someone that brings that up when the time comes. Don't see how it would be any different, or should be.
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Not at all what I'm looking for...I don't want them to stink. I'm "discussing" next year. Trying to figure out how they replace what they lost, is discussing next year. It's no different then discussing how they will replace Markus, Sacar and Ed when they leave. I hope Brew will have the same snarky response to someone that brings that up when the time comes. Don't see how it would be any different, or should be.
And folks are laying out a way to be fine on offense without Sam and Joey, not dissimilar to the arguments they can’t be better without them.
Both are valid arguments because we haven’t seen them play without them. I’m skeptical they are a better offensive team but I’m bullish on the defensive side of the ball and believe they can run a lot more.
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Honestly, you confuse me sometimes Brew...YOU have said that our expectations for next year can't be lower because of what happened, and because MU was "pimping" out all the preseason ranking stuff etc". I'm wondering how they adjust this coming year(19-20), which is the title of the thread, right?? I just don't get how you can get on me for wondering about next year and how they will live up to the expectations you yourself said can't be lowered?? By your own admission above you say "too bad, so sad" that they won't be as good, you're right, they won't be...and that's where the confusion sets in...if the expectations are to be a top 10 team(again YOU were the one saying expectations can't be lowered), then how can you just say "they won't be as good", but still have the expectation(s) that they will be?? ?-(
Because no matter what happens next season, we theoretically would have been better with the Hausers. That is impossible to change so there is no point in talking about it over and over again. That doesn't mean that we can't still have a very good (maybe even meeting those high expectations) season next year.
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Every team loses something every year. The nature of college basketball. You see hopelessness, I see opportunity. If Sam had stayed, a year from now you would be saying there is no way to replace Sam and Markus. And the answer would be the same. Somebody steps up. Somebody improves. Offenses and defenses get tweaked to reflect personnel. Every new season is an unknown. 7 weeks ago, some we're forecasting Marquette to be a top 10 team. There were no unknowns. Now there are unknowns. And opportunities to step up.
I believe 19-20 ends up approximately the same as 18-19. Bottom of the top 25, top 3 in the Big East.
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Honestly, you confuse me sometimes Brew...YOU have said that our expectations for next year can't be lower because of what happened
Expectations should be the same. The reality is the results likely won't be. If they get where they should, which is a top-10 team & top-3 seed, they'll have to do it differently. That will most likely be on the defensive end. Matching the offense will require offensive changes. It won't be plug and play.
The bar for a successful season has not changed. The likelihood of reaching that bar and the way we do it has. Whining won't change any of that.
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Marquette has had some amazing three-point shooting and offense the past 3 seasons. But that's also contributed to the team's imbalance.
On the offensive end, we've relied heavily on the three. When shots fell, we could beat just about anybody in the country. But we struggled against quicker, longer teams that made it tough for Markus, Sam and company to get open looks. If threes weren't falling, look out. More misses from long range were often compounded by more opponents getting more long rebounds -- giving them a head start toward high-percentage transition baskets.
On the defensive end, our roster has been undersized and slow at several positions: Markus Howard, Andrew Rowsey and Joseph Chartouny at guard, Sam and Joey Hauser at forward, Matt Heldt at center.
While we'll definitely miss Sam and Joey's offensive production, I'm curious to see how this longer, quicker, more athletic and still very experienced lineup pulls together. MU might be less perimeter-focused on offense. But it should be an even better defensive squad than last season (I think Top 25 in defensive efficiency is possible), with better ball-handling (Koby and Greg seem like a clear upgrade from Chartouny), better slashers and better offensive rebounding.
Threes are awesome. But they're not enough to build a high-level winning team. You need other ways to score. And you need the right roster and game plan to can keep you in the game defensively when the offense inevitably struggles.
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Every team loses something every year. The nature of college basketball. You see hopelessness, I see opportunity. If Sam had stayed, a year from now you would be saying there is no way to replace Sam and Markus. And the answer would be the same. Somebody steps up. Somebody improves. Offenses and defenses get tweaked to reflect personnel. Every new season is an unknown. 7 weeks ago, some we're forecasting Marquette to be a top 10 team. There were no unknowns. Now there are unknowns. And opportunities to step up.
I believe 19-20 ends up approximately the same as 18-19. Bottom of the top 25, top 3 in the Big East.
If we are top 3 in the Big East, I think we end up top 15. Next year's BE is going to be a blood bath, possibly 7 teams making the NCAAs.
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And folks are laying out a way to be fine on offense without Sam and Joey, not dissimilar to the arguments they can’t be better without them.
Both are valid arguments because we haven’t seen them play without them. I’m skeptical they are a better offensive team but I’m bullish on the defensive side of the ball and believe they can run a lot more.
I don't disagree they will be better defensively. I also agree they can run more and perhaps create more/easier opportunities to score by creating more steals etc. One of the big unknowns though is Will Wojo do those things?
I don't say that as a criticism of him, but the truth is..we just don't know if he will adjust accordingly, or if he will do things the same way.
He's had elite 3 point shooting for 3 years now to hang his hat on..that's been their calling card. Now that they won't have that..does he know how to..or will he revamp the scheme to fit the personnel?
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All I'm saying is that the vast majority of successful teams in college basketball have a legitimate threat of hitting 3s, unless they are freaky stars like Duke had last season.
We have been an elite 3-point shooting team. If we have a small falloff as some have suggested, still hitting 35%-plus to force opponents to defend us "honestly," this will be less of a concern. But until a bunch of unproven players show they can do that, it is my biggest concern. Most everybody has one "biggest concern" or another; that's mine.
But yes, I do have hope that we can make up for some of the 3-point falloff with transition baskets caused by a long, active, quick defense -- the kind of hoops that were pretty much non-existent last season -- as well as offensive rebounding and just good solid defense.
We have much to prove, and, as always, I am hopeful that we will again be a competitive, successful, entertaining team.
Being an optimist doesn't mean I can't have legit concerns, though.
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I'm not as optimistic as I was. I actually agreed with the top 10 projections.
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I'm not as optimistic as I was. I actually agreed with the top 10 projections.
I echo this...I felt the top 10 ranking(s) were totally legit. Hopefully, we can be pleasantly surprised this next year.
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http://www.barttorvik.com/trankpre.php
Interestingly, Marquette 14th in offensive efficiency projections and 60th in defensive efficiency projections.
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http://www.barttorvik.com/trankpre.php
Interestingly, Marquette 14th in offensive efficiency projections and 60th in defensive efficiency projections.
With Sam leaving, there is not a lot of chance of MU moving up in offensive efficiency. I can see the reverse actually (better on D, worse on O). Overall, mid 30s is about right.
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With Sam leaving, there is not a lot of chance of MU moving up in offensive efficiency. I can see the reverse actually (better on D, worse on O). Overall, mid 30s is about right.
Moving up from where MU was the last couple of years offensively is tough. Projected to 14. Would like to see the defense a little better than 60th.
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Moving up from where MU was the last couple of years offensively is tough. Projected to 14. Would like to see the defense a little better than 60th.
Honestly, flip those and I'd believe it. I think this is a top-20 defense, but definitely questionable where the offense will be.
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What Sam would have provided is a given. Sam was consistent and would have provided about 17/7. Joey was not a given for next year. Maybe Joey would have taken a big step, but maybe not. He was certainly more error prone as a freshman than Sam was, and had a tendency to disappear for long stretches.
It’s possible that Brendan and Ed provide more on both ends next year than Joey did this year. It’s also possible that the addition of Kobe adds points and cuts down on turnovers and that Kobe, Greg, and a continuing improved Sacar make up most of Sam’s lost points. The question to me is where will Sam’s rebounds be made up? Maybe improved D and less TOs combine to offset the rebounds. Maybe somebody breaks out more than expected. Maybe team chemistry is the difference maker.
That’s a lot of maybes, but I’m saying there’s a chance and that gives me reason to look forward to the next season. I do have a pretty good feeling that the guys on the current roster are going to work hard to prove they don’t need those other two.
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I think we may actually be better than we would of been vs. I do not think we will be as good as we could of been. The difference between these two is team chemistry. Give me two happy Hausers and I believe we would of been extremely good next year. Give me two unhappy Hausers and I am not sure what happens. We did not lose happy Hausers.
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ND sucks
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With Sam leaving, there is not a lot of chance of MU moving up in offensive efficiency. I can see the reverse actually (better on D, worse on O). Overall, mid 30s is about right.
I’d think so, too, but it is interesting that’s the current projection.
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Symir is coming. The sky remains aloft.
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Please let me know if I am incorrect about this: I thought that if the Hausers stayed, there were at least 2 other players who were going to leave. If so, it is incorrect to assume we would have the team return intact if they stayed. Others who left would have left us weaker, likely on defense. I don't think it is fair to assume the team would have stayed together if they left. You have to compare the composition of the team if the Hausers stayed (some other vital players gone) v. the composition of the team now with the Hausers leaving. Depending on who the departing players were going to be, the gap may not be as great as muguru and others are suggesting.
As noted above, I could be all wrong about this but I just assumed that SOME players were leaving this offseason all along. It just happened to be the Hausers. I'm sure there will be some others leave next year. It's the nature of the game these days.
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That was one of a dozen different rumors floating around. Who knows how much validity it had?
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Please let me know if I am incorrect about this: I thought that if the Hausers stayed, there were at least 2 other players who were going to leave. If so, it is incorrect to assume we would have the team return intact if they stayed. Others who left would have left us weaker, likely on defense. I don't think it is fair to assume the team would have stayed together if they left. You have to compare the composition of the team if the Hausers stayed (some other vital players gone) v. the composition of the team now with the Hausers leaving. Depending on who the departing players were going to be, the gap may not be as great as muguru and others are suggesting.
As noted above, I could be all wrong about this but I just assumed that SOME players were leaving this offseason all along. It just happened to be the Hausers. I'm sure there will be some others leave next year. It's the nature of the game these days.
The thing is though, outside of Markus leaving, anyone else that left wouldn't have been as big of a blow(at least offensively, mostly Sam) as the Hausers leaving did. Those players would have been replaceable, as we can see, the Hauser's weren't.
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Everybody is replaceable.
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Everybody is replaceable.
Sure they are, it happens in the business world all the time, but..how good is the replacement?? Are they better then what you had, the same, or worse?? If they are worse, how many other people in the organization have to pick up the slack and, maybe the biggest question is, are they capable of picking up the slack enough to see no drop off from the person(s) that left your organization to the point where there is no noticeable drop off in production or your business model??
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Sure they are, it happens in the business world all the time, but..how good is the replacement?? Are they better then what you had, the same, or worse?? If they are worse, how many other people in the organization have to pick up the slack and, maybe the biggest question is, are they capable of picking up the slack enough to see no drop off from the person(s) that left your organization to the point where there is no noticeable drop off in production or your business model??
Irrelevant.
Moving on.
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Irrelevant.
Moving on.
If you were CEO of a business Brew and two of your most valued people, two that were integral into moving your model forward, suddenly up and left and your business wasn't as good as it was because the replacements weren't as good..and YOU started losing big $$ and then ultimately your job because of it..would that be irrelevant as well?
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If you were CEO of a business Brew and two of your most valued people, two that were integral into moving your model forward, suddenly up and left and your business wasn't as good as it was because the replacements weren't as good..and YOU started losing big $$ and then ultimately your job because of it..would that be irrelevant as well?
Not to speak for brew, but ...
The loss of those 2 employees is irrelevant after they have left. It is incumbent upon the CEO to put forth the best group of employees at all times. The CEO has to move on. The title of this discussion is "Moving on ... " Continuing to lament the loss of two employees, no matter how valuable, is a good way for the CEO to run his company into bankruptcy.
Moving on is all the CEO can do, it's all the basketball coach can do, and it's what fans should do. Especially when writing in a thread titled, "Moving on ... "
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Please let me know if I am incorrect about this: I thought that if the Hausers stayed, there were at least 2 other players who were going to leave.
Somebody (Chico?) claimed that's what he "heard". Zero evidence given to support the rumor.
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If you were CEO of a business Brew and two of your most valued people, two that were integral into moving your model forward, suddenly up and left and your business wasn't as good as it was because the replacements weren't as good..and YOU started losing big $$ and then ultimately your job because of it..would that be irrelevant as well?
You're assuming the business is going to start making less money than it was. What if the business makes more money than it was but maybe not as much as they would have if the two people stayed? I think most would commend the CEO for regrouping and still growing the business despite such a big setback.
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Not to speak for brew, but ...
That's okay...you got it ;)
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Not to speak for brew, but ...
The loss of those 2 employees is irrelevant after they have left. It is incumbent upon the CEO to put forth the best group of employees at all times. The CEO has to move on. The title of this discussion is "Moving on ... " Continuing to lament the loss of two employees, no matter how valuable, is a good way for the CEO to run his company into bankruptcy.
Moving on is all the CEO can do, it's all the basketball coach can do, and it's what fans should do. Especially when writing in a thread titled, "Moving on ... "
And I am MOVING on, not sure how trying to figure out what NEXT years team will look like in replacing what left, ISN'T moving on?? But I digress. I wonder if Next year after Sacar, Markus and Ed are gone, and someone talks about, or asks "I wonder how so and so will replace Markus's scoring, or Ed's rebounding, or Sacar's defense" or talking about those players and what they brought etc etc, will get told to "move on" and get accused of NOT looking forward to how you replace them.
I guess if any post were to mention them, they should ultimately be accused of "not moving on", or at least I'd hope that was the narrative, since I'm getting accused of it. Having concerns about the offense NEXT year(as I have stated), isn't moving on??
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And I am MOVING on, not sure how trying to figure out what NEXT years team will look like in replacing what left, ISN'T moving on?? But I digress. I wonder if Next year after Sacar, Markus and Ed are gone, and someone talks about, or asks "I wonder how so and so will replace Markus's scoring, or Ed's rebounding, or Sacar's defense" or talking about those players and what they brought etc etc, will get told to "move on" and get accused of NOT looking forward to how you replace them.
I guess if any post were to mention them, they should ultimately be accused of "not moving on", or at least I'd hope that was the narrative, since I'm getting accused of it. Having concerns about the offense NEXT year(as I have stated), isn't moving on??
Don't take it so personally, guru. As previously stated, you and I have similar concerns about the offense. I simply have moved on past the Hausers (in this context) because they don't have a single thing to do with next year's team.
There are about 50 threads about the Hausers, including a couple that are still very much active. There is one about "Moving on."
Wojo doesn't have to replace the Hausers. He has to put the best team on the floor that he can.
And yes, next year he will not have to replace Markus, per se -- at least not for the purposes of our inevitable "moving on" thread -- he will have to put the best team on the floor that he can.
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Having concerns about the offense NEXT year(as I have stated), isn't moving on??
So we'll be different. Instead of 4-out, we'll often have two bigs on the floor. Instead of bombing from three, we'll be driving & scoring inside. We'll work to draw fouls and get to the line. We'll aim to create turnovers and score in transition.
Moving on is looking at how the team will adjust, not just whining for what was lost. It sucks that the Hausers are gone. It means next year will be harder. But it's not going to change.
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Somebody (Chico?) claimed that's what he "heard". Zero evidence given to support the rumor.
FWIW, I got that info as well. The truth is, it’s all conjecture
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So we'll be different. Instead of 4-out, we'll often have two bigs on the floor. Instead of bombing from three, we'll be driving & scoring inside. We'll work to draw fouls and get to the line. We'll aim to create turnovers and score in transition.
Moving on is looking at how the team will adjust, not just whining for what was lost. It sucks that the Hausers are gone. It means next year will be harder. But it's not going to change.
How do we know this for certain though?? We don't 100% know that Wojo will revamp everything to fit his personnel. He hasn't had to for basically 3 years. Is he capable/and willing to do so?? You hope so/think so, but we do have evidence of him doing things over and over and over again even when it's not working. He has a hard time making in game adjustments, I'm skeptical as to whether or not he will change as dramatically as he'll need to for next year's team, and if he does, will he chose the proper way to do it?? And if after awhile that isn't working, will he then again, be astute enough to see it, and alter again??
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I guess we'll find out.
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Somebody (Chico?) claimed that's what he "heard". Zero evidence given to support the rumor.
Some of the same people who knew in advance Hausers were leaving also said if they stay, others are going.
Believe what you wish, you still think Buzz is the Virgin Mary so I cannot help you.
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Sure they are, it happens in the business world all the time, but..how good is the replacement?? Are they better then what you had, the same, or worse?? If they are worse, how many other people in the organization have to pick up the slack and, maybe the biggest question is, are they capable of picking up the slack enough to see no drop off from the person(s) that left your organization to the point where there is no noticeable drop off in production or your business model??
Whoa whoa whoa. When some of us make the exact same argument about Wojo’s replacement and the unknowns, you go ballistic and attack.
Amazing hypocrisy.
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Not really. Actually consistent with his narrative that Wojo is a bad coach.
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How do we know this for certain though?? We don't 100% know that Wojo will revamp everything to fit his personnel. He hasn't had to for basically 3 years. Is he capable/and willing to do so?? You hope so/think so, but we do have evidence of him doing things over and over and over again even when it's not working. He has a hard time making in game adjustments, I'm skeptical as to whether or not he will change as dramatically as he'll need to for next year's team, and if he does, will he chose the proper way to do it?? And if after awhile that isn't working, will he then again, be astute enough to see it, and alter again??
You are pointing out the one fly in the ointment to my view that the team is going to be very good next year. That being that Wojo is not up to the job. My hope/current thinking is that the players , specifically Markus, can overcome Wojo ability to provide high quality leadership . I have seen teams win despite a mediocre coach. I
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You are pointing out the one fly in the ointment to my view that the team is going to be very good next year. That being that Wojo is not up to the job. My hope/current thinking is that the players , specifically Markus, can overcome Wojo ability to provide high quality leadership . I have seen teams win despite a mediocre coach. I
You?
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Whoa whoa whoa. When some of us make the exact same argument about Wojo’s replacement and the unknowns, you go ballistic and attack.
Amazing hypocrisy.
Not hypocrisy...they CAN get better than Wojo, that's what seems lost on you for some reason. Theydon't have adequate replacements for the Hauser's(at least not Sam), that is also a fact.
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Some of the same people who knew in advance Hausers were leaving also said if they stay, others are going.
Believe what you wish, you still think Buzz is the Virgin Mary so I cannot help you.
Move on
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So, in the end, Chartouny, Heldt, Sam, and Joey left. Koby, Greg, Jayce, Dexter, and Symir are arriving. More turnover than expected. Definitely going to be a different roster make up than we are used to. But in the end, and moving on, there are a lot of pieces. MU is going to get a bunch of extra practices as well as the games in Spain for Wojo to start figuring out how to use them all. Moving on..... there is reason for optimism.
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You are pointing out the one fly in the ointment to my view that the team is going to be very good next year. That being that Wojo is not up to the job. My hope/current thinking is that the players , specifically Markus, can overcome Wojo ability to provide high quality leadership . I have seen teams win despite a mediocre coach. I
Nice, 9-9-9. Way to C.Y.A. on this.
You had stated numerous times that you think we're going to be excellent next season. Now you have set it up so that if we aren't, it will be 100% Wojo's fault.
Awwww, shucky ducky!
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Not hypocrisy...they CAN get better than Wojo, that's what seems lost on you for some reason. Theydon't have adequate replacements for the Hauser's(at least not Sam), that is also a fact.
Complete hypocrisy. Yes, MU can do better, they can also do worse than Wojo....but you didn’t use that argument, only on the player side of the argument.
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Nice, 9-9-9. Way to C.Y.A. on this.
You had stated numerous times that you think we're going to be excellent next season. Now you have set it up so that if we aren't, it will be 100% Wojo's fault.
Awwww, shucky ducky!
We are going to be excellent. I love the make up of the team sans The Hausers. I am just pointing out that one of my assumptions about our greatness is that the kids ignore the coach and just win. That assumption is based on the fact that Markus needs to demonstrate he can be the coach on the floor in order to have a shot at getting drafted.
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We are going to be excellent. I love the make up of the team sans The Hausers. I am just pointing out that one of my assumptions about our greatness is that the kids ignore the coach and just win. That assumption is based on the fact that Markus needs to demonstrate he can be the coach on the floor in order to have a shot at getting drafted.
This is fantastic. If we win, it's because the players ignored Wojo. If we lose, it's because of Wojo. Master manipulation
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This is fantastic. If we win, it's because the players ignored Wojo. If we lose, it's because of Wojo. Master manipulation
I have felt for several years now that we win or lose based on the kids. 2016-17 the kids did about as well as they could and we had a solid and enjoyable season. 2017-18 I think the kids slightly under performed .mostly do to not showing up in a couple of key games. 2018-19 the kids held it together for a while, but eventually the team chemistry was so bad we so what happened. Wojo is good at recruiting, average at game coaching ,weak at motivating/ leadership and very good to great at corporate a#$$ kissing. So bottom line we keep getting the resources, bring in a few Big East level talented kids and it is up to the young men to make it all work.
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I have felt for several years now that we win or lose based on the kids. 2016-17 the kids did about as well as they could and we had a solid and enjoyable season. 2017-18 I think the kids slightly under performed .mostly do to not showing up in a couple of key games. 2018-19 the kids held it together for a while, but eventually the team chemistry was so bad we so what happened. Wojo is good at recruiting, average at game coaching ,weak at motivating/ leadership and very good to great at corporate a#$$ kissing. So bottom line we keep getting the resources, bring in a few Big East level talented kids and it is up to the young men to make it all work.
Your view is as believable as when you were claiming you were on Quentin Grimes’s official visit at Marquette.
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I have felt for several years now that we win or lose based on the kids. 2016-17 the kids did about as well as they could and we had a solid and enjoyable season. 2017-18 I think the kids slightly under performed .mostly do to not showing up in a couple of key games. 2018-19 the kids held it together for a while, but eventually the team chemistry was so bad we so what happened. Wojo is good at recruiting, average at game coaching ,weak at motivating/ leadership and very good to great at corporate a#$$ kissing. So bottom line we keep getting the resources, bring in a few Big East level talented kids and it is up to the young men to make it all work.
I repeat again. If we're good, it's in spite of Wojo. If we're bad, it's because of Wojo. Masterpiece work.
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I repeat again. If we're good, it's in spite of Wojo. If we're bad, it's because of Wojo. Masterpiece work.
And whether they are good or bad, you're going to love Wojo and want him to keep his job TAMU. That's a fact. You are so hell bent on stability, whether it is wojo or someone else, no matter the results, no matter how average of a Coach they may be, you'd want them kept for the sake of "stability". results be damned.
They could go 1-17 in the Big east this year and your refrain would be "You don't fire a Coach based on results, you fire a Coach because you feel it's best for the program". You'd still defend him. I want him to/hope he turns it around because I'm an MU fan, he's the Coach, and he's the hope I have right now, I have no other choice. Here's hoping that in some strange way the Hauser's bolting changes him, and from it, he becomes a great Coach.
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And whether they are good or bad, you're going to love Wojo and want him to keep his job TAMU. That's a fact. You are so hell bent on stability, whether it is wojo or someone else, no matter the results, no matter how average of a Coach they may be, you'd want them kept for the sake of "stability". results be damned.
They could go 1-17 in the Big east this year and your refrain would be "You don't fire a Coach based on results, you fire a Coach because you feel it's best for the program". You'd still defend him. I want him to/hope he turns it around because I'm an MU fan, he's the Coach, and he's the hope I have right now, I have no other choice. Here's hoping that in some strange way the Hauser's bolting changes him, and from it, he becomes a great Coach.
I agree with this analysis.
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I agree with this analysis.
😂😂😂😂
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And whether they are good or bad, you're going to love Wojo and want him to keep his job TAMU. That's a fact. You are so hell bent on stability, whether it is wojo or someone else, no matter the results, no matter how average of a Coach they may be, you'd want them kept for the sake of "stability". results be damned.
They could go 1-17 in the Big east this year and your refrain would be "You don't fire a Coach based on results, you fire a Coach because you feel it's best for the program". You'd still defend him. I want him to/hope he turns it around because I'm an MU fan, he's the Coach, and he's the hope I have right now, I have no other choice. Here's hoping that in some strange way the Hauser's bolting changes him, and from it, he becomes a great Coach.
I’ll bet a lot of money TAMU wouldn’t say keep him if he went 1-17. I’d bet you’d say keep him if they went 17-1 and got upset in the first round of the tourney. Rightly so.
TAMU hits the nail on the head, success for some is in spite of the coach. Failure is the fault of the coach for them as well.
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I have felt for several years now that we win or lose based on the kids. 2016-17 the kids did about as well as they could and we had a solid and enjoyable season. 2017-18 I think the kids slightly under performed .mostly do to not showing up in a couple of key games. 2018-19 the kids held it together for a while, but eventually the team chemistry was so bad we so what happened. Wojo is good at recruiting, average at game coaching ,weak at motivating/ leadership and very good to great at corporate a#$$ kissing. So bottom line we keep getting the resources, bring in a few Big East level talented kids and it is up to the young men to make it all work.
Silliness.
And whether they are good or bad, you're going to love Wojo and want him to keep his job TAMU. That's a fact. You are so hell bent on stability, whether it is wojo or someone else, no matter the results, no matter how average of a Coach they may be, you'd want them kept for the sake of "stability". results be damned.
They could go 1-17 in the Big east this year and your refrain would be "You don't fire a Coach based on results, you fire a Coach because you feel it's best for the program". You'd still defend him. I want him to/hope he turns it around because I'm an MU fan, he's the Coach, and he's the hope I have right now, I have no other choice. Here's hoping that in some strange way the Hauser's bolting changes him, and from it, he becomes a great Coach.
More silliness. And factually incorrect, too.
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And whether they are good or bad, you're going to love Wojo and want him to keep his job TAMU. That's a fact. You are so hell bent on stability, whether it is wojo or someone else, no matter the results, no matter how average of a Coach they may be, you'd want them kept for the sake of "stability". results be damned.
I don't give a shiit about stability. I care about results. It just happens that programs that are stable tend have good results and vice versa. As long as the program is trending up, I am for keeping the coach. If we plateaued for too long or the program started trending downward, I would be for a change in leadership.
They could go 1-17 in the Big east this year and your refrain would be "You don't fire a Coach based on results, you fire a Coach because you feel it's best for the program". You'd still defend him.
You are right about the refrain, but wrong about the result. If Wojo goes 1-17, firing him would be what's best for the program.
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This is fantastic. If we win, it's because the players ignored Wojo. If we lose, it's because of Wojo. Master manipulation
I disagree, to me its Juvenile manipulation.
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I disagree, to me its Juvenile manipulation.
(https://i.imgur.com/i2yYun3.gif)
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I don't give a shiit about stability. I care about results. It just happens that programs that are stable tend have good results and vice versa. As long as the program is trending up, I am for keeping the coach. If we plateaued for too long or the program started trending downward, I would be for a change in leadership.
You are right about the refrain, but wrong about the result. If Wojo goes 1-17, firing him would be what's best for the program.
MU had a very good program that was nationally respected during the Crean/Buzz era. Consistently made the tournament and won tournament games . Occasionally , a deeper run. MU produced meaningful NBA talent . MU has definitely taken a step down in the Wojo era. MU is now producing at a level that a program like Creighton would find acceptable. The program has all the resources necessary to get back to the Crean/Buzz era.
I give Wojo credit for the positive things he does. I believe he is a good recruiter and he has embraced the history and tradition of MU. Unfortunately , he just doesn't have what it takes to move the program back to where it was under Crean/Buzz. The Hauser defection is evidence of that.
I am very enthusiastic about the coming season sans the Hausers. We have depth at every position, good team chemistry and for the first time in a long time we will have a Crean/Buzz style athletic roster . My belief is that the team will deliver on their promise. Nothing would make me more happy than to see MU step up and win The Big East. I would be the first person to congratulate Wojo.
Hopefully, a good job opens up next year that will pony up the money needed to dislodge Wojo. Stan is waiting in the wings and will do great things for MU when he gets his shot.
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MU had a very good program that was nationally respected during the Crean/Buzz era. Consistently made the tournament and won tournament games . Occasionally , a deeper run. MU produced meaningful NBA talent . MU has definitely taken a step down in the Wojo era. MU is now producing at a level that a program like Creighton would find acceptable. The program has all the resources necessary to get back to the Crean/Buzz era.
The myth of success under Crean and Buzz is one of the bigger ones told on this board. All it took was one surprise defection to the NBA for the whole house of cards to come tumbling down. Wojo was tasked with rebuilding that foundation with something sturdier than cards.
I give Wojo credit for the positive things he does. I believe he is a good recruiter and he has embraced the history and tradition of MU. Unfortunately , he just doesn't have what it takes to move the program back to where it was under Crean/Buzz. The Hauser defection is evidence of that.
I am very enthusiastic about the coming season sans the Hausers. We have depth at every position, good team chemistry and for the first time in a long time we will have a Crean/Buzz style athletic roster . My belief is that the team will deliver on their promise. Nothing would make me more happy than to see MU step up and win The Big East. I would be the first person to congratulate Wojo.
Hopefully, a good job opens up next year that will pony up the money needed to dislodge Wojo. Stan is waiting in the wings and will do great things for MU when he gets his shot.
So if we are successful, you would be one of the first to congratulate Wojo....but you said earlier that if we were successful it would be because the players ignored Wojo....and while you were congratulating Wojo you would be hoping that he gets picked off by another program so you could get rid of him....something doesn't compute here.
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How do we have a clue what the team chemistry is really like in the locker room? Look how bad it was last year and no one had any idea? I think Wojo is a good man who does things the right way but has
no style of coaching that he can call his own
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How do we have a clue what the team chemistry is really like in the locker room? Look how bad it was last year and no one had any idea? I think Wojo is a good man who does things the right way but has
no style of coaching that he can call his own
Sure he does. Just as much as most coaches.
Seriously I get why he should be criticized, but “no style of coaching that he can call his own” is a little out there.
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The myth of success under Crean and Buzz is one of the bigger ones told on this board. All it took was one surprise defection to the NBA for the whole house of cards to come tumbling down. Wojo was tasked with rebuilding that foundation with something sturdier than cards.
So if we are successful, you would be one of the first to congratulate Wojo....but you said earlier that if we were successful it would be because the players ignored Wojo....and while you were congratulating Wojo you would be hoping that he gets picked off by another program so you could get rid of him....something doesn't compute here.
The program was in very strong shape . There was no house of cards. Buzz last year the team lost several close tough non conference games. Buzz had a very good pipeline of kids coming in Ahmed Hill, Marial Shayok etc. 8 straight tournaments 2 s16 followed by an E8 is not a house of cards .
Wojo has definitely taken the program down. Right now we are somewhere close to parity with Creighton. If you are Creighton that is an acceptable level. McDermott is highly regarded out there and has a well oiled stable program going but it is not going to be a consistent factor in the national conversation . MU has the assets and tradition to consistently be in the national conversation and that is the standard Wojo should be held to.
The competitive landscape in The Big East is fierce. It is only going to get more difficult as they bottom dweller programs have all improved. We need some dynamism to become top tier in the league.
Wojo depleted the program
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The program was in very strong shape . There was no house of cards. Buzz last year the team lost several close tough non conference games. Buzz had a very good pipeline of kids coming in Ahmed Hill, Marial Shayok etc. 8 straight tournaments 2 s16 followed by an E8 is not a house of cards .
Wojo has definitely taken the program down. Right now we are somewhere close to parity with Creighton. If you are Creighton that is an acceptable level. McDermott is highly regarded out there and has a well oiled stable program going but it is not going to be a consistent factor in the national conversation . MU has the assets and tradition to consistently be in the national conversation and that is the standard Wojo should be held to.
The competitive landscape in The Big East is fierce. It is only going to get more difficult as they bottom dweller programs have all improved. We need some dynamism to become top tier in the league.
Wojo depleted the program
Which close non conference games are you referring to? The complete obliteration of us by Ohio State? The looking non competitive against San Diego St and New Mexico?
I agree the program was very stable and in good shape till 2013 but saying Buzz still had it in good shape and was just on the wrong side of the coin in 2014 but then calling wojo out when both the 2016 and 2018 seasons were the same situation of wrong side of close games is flawed logic.
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Which close non conference games are you referring to? The complete obliteration of us by Ohio State? The looking non competitive against San Diego St and New Mexico?
I agree the program was very stable and in good shape till 2013 but saying Buzz still had it in good shape and was just on the wrong side of the coin in 2014 but then calling wojo out when both the 2016 and 2018 seasons were the same situation of wrong side of close games is flawed logic.
Buzz Williams quit on his players and the program. To quote Willie, he was a phony cowboy
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Which close non conference games are you referring to? The complete obliteration of us by Ohio State? The looking non competitive against San Diego St and New Mexico?
I agree the program was very stable and in good shape till 2013 but saying Buzz still had it in good shape and was just on the wrong side of the coin in 2014 but then calling wojo out when both the 2016 and 2018 seasons were the same situation of wrong side of close games is flawed logic.
We lost a close one to Arizona State in the road. Davante was sick for the San Diego State game ( which was effectively a road game) and we lost to a very good New Mexico team in Vegas.
Dear he other factor is we had a moronic AD who was constantly undermining the best coach we had since Al. Eccentricities aside Buzz was a legit coach .
I completely understood why Buzz left and given the circumstance and his personality it was the right thing to do. MU just made a mistake in hiring Buzz replacement . It was Lovell’s first week on the job and he by default went to the “ safe “ choice in Wojo.
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We lost a close one to Arizona State in the road. Davante was sick for the San Diego State game ( which was effectively a road game) and we lost to a very good New Mexico team in Vegas.
Dear he other factor is we had a moronic AD who was constantly undermining the best coach we had since Al. Eccentricities aside Buzz was a legit coach .
I completely understood why Buzz left and given the circumstance and his personality it was the right thing to do. MU just made a mistake in hiring Buzz replacement . It was Lovell’s first week on the job and he by default went to the “ safe “ choice in Wojo.
I understand Buzz, too. When the going gets tough, quit
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We lost a close one to Arizona State in the road. Davante was sick for the San Diego State game ( which was effectively a road game) and we lost to a very good New Mexico team in Vegas.
Dear he other factor is we had a moronic AD who was constantly undermining the best coach we had since Al. Eccentricities aside Buzz was a legit coach .
I completely understood why Buzz left and given the circumstance and his personality it was the right thing to do. MU just made a mistake in hiring Buzz replacement . It was Lovell’s first week on the job and he by default went to the “ safe “ choice in Wojo.
Right I just don't get why you make all these excuses for Buzz's close losses. I'm off the wojo hype train but it doesn't make sense to say "they lost a bunch of close games" for 2014 and then for wojo in 2016 or 2018 act like he was a complete failure.
I'm off the Wojo hype train but come on use some consistent logic here.
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MU just made a mistake in hiring Buzz replacement . It was Lovell’s first week on the job and he by default went to the “ safe “ choice in Wojo.
You can't have it both ways. Wojo can't be a mistake and say this:
We have depth at every position, good team chemistry and for the first time in a long time we will have a Crean/Buzz style athletic roster .
Wojo is the reason for the roster. Wojo is the reason for the depth, the chemistry, and the athleticism. None of those players would be here without Wojo. And as much as you praise Stan, he also wouldn't be here without Wojo. Neither would Nelson or Killings. Every coach, every player, those are all on Wojo. Applauding the roster, applauding the chemistry, applauding the results, those are all applause for Wojo.
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The program was in very strong shape . There was no house of cards. Buzz last year the team lost several close tough non conference games. Buzz had a very good pipeline of kids coming in Ahmed Hill, Marial Shayok etc. 8 straight tournaments 2 s16 followed by an E8 is not a house of cards .
Wojo has definitely taken the program down. Right now we are somewhere close to parity with Creighton. If you are Creighton that is an acceptable level. McDermott is highly regarded out there and has a well oiled stable program going but it is not going to be a consistent factor in the national conversation . MU has the assets and tradition to consistently be in the national conversation and that is the standard Wojo should be held to.
The competitive landscape in The Big East is fierce. It is only going to get more difficult as they bottom dweller programs have all improved. We need some dynamism to become top tier in the league.
Wojo depleted the program
Buzz quit a year early and still got paid by MU to roam the sidelines. Character revealed.
We were picked to win the Big East, finished 6th. Scored 35 points against Ohio State in a drubbing to lose our ranking. Close losses...how about close wins against New Hampshire? Needing OT to beat DePaul. A roster management that was a mess and several players that had no business EVER being in a MU uniform.
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We lost a close one to Arizona State in the road. Davante was sick for the San Diego State game ( which was effectively a road game) and we lost to a very good New Mexico team in Vegas.
Dear he other factor is we had a moronic AD who was constantly undermining the best coach we had since Al. Eccentricities aside Buzz was a legit coach .
I completely understood why Buzz left and given the circumstance and his personality it was the right thing to do. MU just made a mistake in hiring Buzz replacement . It was Lovell’s first week on the job and he by default went to the “ safe “ choice in Wojo.
Who should we have hired and hind sight is always 20-20
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Right I just don't get why you make all these excuses for Buzz's close losses. I'm off the wojo hype train but it doesn't make sense to say "they lost a bunch of close games" for 2014 and then for wojo in 2016 or 2018 act like he was a complete failure.
I'm off the Wojo hype train but come on use some consistent logic here.
Not making excuses . Given Buzz track record he earns the benefit of the doubt in my back
I fully acknowledge and concur that Buzz had significant emotional issues
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We lost a close one to Arizona State in the road. Davante was sick for the San Diego State game ( which was effectively a road game) and we lost to a very good New Mexico team in Vegas.
Dear he other factor is we had a moronic AD who was constantly undermining the best coach we had since Al. Eccentricities aside Buzz was a legit coach .
I completely understood why Buzz left and given the circumstance and his personality it was the right thing to do. MU just made a mistake in hiring Buzz replacement . It was Lovell’s first week on the job and he by default went to the “ safe “ choice in Wojo.
Who would you have hired. Who was the “unsafe” hire that was out there that we refused to go with?
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We lost a close one to Arizona State in the road. Davante was sick for the San Diego State game ( which was effectively a road game) and we lost to a very good New Mexico team in Vegas.
Dear he other factor is we had a moronic AD who was constantly undermining the best coach we had since Al. Eccentricities aside Buzz was a legit coach .
I completely understood why Buzz left and given the circumstance and his personality it was the right thing to do. MU just made a mistake in hiring Buzz replacement . It was Lovell’s first week on the job and he by default went to the “ safe “ choice in Wojo.
Herman, didn’t we also barely beat New Hampshire at home, needed OT to beat DePaul, barely beat Georgetown at home...etc. Don’t the close wins also need to be factored in? I sat directly behind the bench in Anaheim and was right there with Lazar and Buzz when Buzz flat out said before the game, this team cannot shoot. No one can shoot. We were 17-15 for a reason, his roster management.
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Why must every thread go careening off topic?
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Why must every thread go careening off topic?
Mainly because we have people hoping Wojo, and thus MU, fails.
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Not making excuses . Given Buzz track record he earns the benefit of the doubt in my back
I fully acknowledge and concur that Buzz had significant emotional issues
stating a road game, then a player was sick, another two very good teams that were effectively road games, and going on about an idiotic AD all seem like excuses to me. Again if you're going to say 'these were all close games in 2014 thus we weren't that bad' then you have to say that Wojo was also in close game situations in 2016 and 2018.
Bottom line, there's no excuses for either or you accept the same excuses for both. If not it's poor logic
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Mainly because we have people hoping Wojo, and thus MU, fails.
Hauser slurpers
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We lost a close one to Arizona State in the road. Davante was sick for the San Diego State game ( which was effectively a road game) and we lost to a very good New Mexico team in Vegas.
Dear he other factor is we had a moronic AD who was constantly undermining the best coach we had since Al. Eccentricities aside Buzz was a legit coach .
I completely understood why Buzz left and given the circumstance and his personality it was the right thing to do. MU just made a mistake in hiring Buzz replacement . It was Lovell’s first week on the job and he by default went to the “ safe “ choice in Wojo.
When Buzz left, the moronic AD wasn’t in place. He was a quitter. Probably related to the Hauser boys somehow.
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Who would you have hired. Who was the “unsafe” hire that was out there that we refused to go with?
The backup QB should be starting, he is way better and has the most potential!!!
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Herman, I have been skeptical about Wojo's managerial abilities and am always really happy when he proves me wrong (23-4) and hate seeing my skepticism vindicated (year end collapse) but to say he should be replaced simply makes no sense at all to me.
Despite Buzz's success, he didn't give a rat's ass about the university so his legacy is tainted. I think Brew's very well worded post states Wojo's accomplishments and Cheek's comment "Buzz quit a year early and still got paid by MU to roam he sidelines" is spot on. I noticed his body language late in his last season and was furious when it later became obvious he quit on the team. Wojo has never done that.
I am becoming more optimistic about this coming season even though that goes against my admittedly cautious nature. Besides, there is not a snowball's chance in Hell that Wojo will be fired. Relax and take a deep breath.
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Okay for Chicos especially and all of those that keep rambling on and on and on about "upward trajectory" and that's what Wojo has been on(according to them), now keep in mind you are all the same people that slam buzz repeatedly for his last year and a "downward trajectory" etc etc...so what happens when MU's season isn't as good this year as it was last year?? isn't that a "downward" trajectory?? That would go totally against your incessant ramblings of "upward trajectory, you can't get rid of him etc etc". Are all of you going to make excuses then if that occurs, cut him some slack, or...?? This will be an interesting case study to see if these people that are so consistent with their ramblings of "upward trajectory" suddenly switch course after this season(if it's worse than last year), make excuses, or are still supportive of him even though it would go against everything they use to suggest he should still be supported which is "upward trajectory". I think it's going to prove that most use that as a "crutch" to argue, just for argument's sake.
All I know is I'm grabbing my popcorn for this one, sitting back, watching the show and we WILL be revisiting this at the end of next season, and if what happens, what I think will happen for this upcoming year(not as good as the previous year), I WILL be digging up every single post about "upward trajectory", every single post blasting Buzz for his last year and it being a "downward trajectory", and calling EVERY single one of you out on your total and complete hypocrisy, and I do NOT want to hear sh&t like "well, he represents the University well etc etc". Nope, your #1 basis for supporting him was "upward trajectory", so you MUST stick to that, and I will make sure every single one of you does.
This is going to be soooo good. Chicos has a HUGE target on his back...this should truly expose him, I'm guessing. :)
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Okay for Chicos especially and all of those that keep rambling on and on and on about "upward trajectory" and that's what Wojo has been on(according to them), now keep in mind you are all the same people that slam buzz repeatedly for his last year and a "downward trajectory" etc etc...so what happens when MU's season isn't as good this year as it was last year?? isn't that a "downward" trajectory?? That would go totally against your incessant ramblings of "upward trajectory, you can't get rid of him etc etc". Are all of you going to make excuses then if that occurs, cut him some slack, or...?? This will be an interesting case study to see if these people that are so consistent with their ramblings of "upward trajectory" sudeenly switch course after this season(if it's worse than last year), make excuses, or are still supportive of him even though it would go against everything they use to suggest he should still be supported which is "upward trajectory". I think it's going to prove that most use that as a "crutch" to argue, just for aregument's sake.
All I know is I'm grabbing my popcorn for this one, sitting back, watching the show and we WILL be revisiting this at the end of next season, and if what happens, what I think will happen for this upcoming year(not as good as the previous year), I WILL be digging up every single post about "upward trajectory", every single post blasting Buzz for his last year and it being a "downward trajectory", and calling EFER single one of you out on your total and complete hypocrisy, and I do NOT want to hear sh&t like "well, he represents the University well etc etc". Nope, your #1 basis for supporting him was "upward trajectory", so you MUST stick to that, and I will make sure every single one of you does.
This is going to be soooo good. Chicos has a HUGE target on his back...this should truly expose him, I'm guessing. :)
Pretty solid fan that you want MU to fail so you can stick it to some message board posters.
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MU had a very good program that was nationally respected during the Crean/Buzz era. Consistently made the tournament and won tournament games . Occasionally , a deeper run. MU produced meaningful NBA talent . MU has definitely taken a step down in the Wojo era. MU is now producing at a level that a program like Creighton would find acceptable. The program has all the resources necessary to get back to the Crean/Buzz era.
I give Wojo credit for the positive things he does. I believe he is a good recruiter and he has embraced the history and tradition of MU. Unfortunately , he just doesn't have what it takes to move the program back to where it was under Crean/Buzz. The Hauser defection is evidence of that.
I am very enthusiastic about the coming season sans the Hausers. We have depth at every position, good team chemistry and for the first time in a long time we will have a Crean/Buzz style athletic roster . My belief is that the team will deliver on their promise. Nothing would make me more happy than to see MU step up and win The Big East. I would be the first person to congratulate Wojo.
Hopefully, a good job opens up next year that will pony up the money needed to dislodge Wojo. Stan is waiting in the wings and will do great things for MU when he gets his shot.
People here are going to be pissed when we don't get an already established and successful coach for the next hire
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Okay for Chicos especially and all of those that keep rambling on and on and on about "upward trajectory" and that's what Wojo has been on(according to them), now keep in mind you are all the same people that slam buzz repeatedly for his last year and a "downward trajectory" etc etc...so what happens when MU's season isn't as good this year as it was last year?? isn't that a "downward" trajectory?? That would go totally against your incessant ramblings of "upward trajectory, you can't get rid of him etc etc". Are all of you going to make excuses then if that occurs, cut him some slack, or...?? This will be an interesting case study to see if these people that are so consistent with their ramblings of "upward trajectory" sudeenly switch course after this season(if it's worse than last year), make excuses, or are still supportive of him even though it would go against everything they use to suggest he should still be supported which is "upward trajectory". I think it's going to prove that most use that as a "crutch" to argue, just for aregument's sake.
All I know is I'm grabbing my popcorn for this one, sitting back, watching the show and we WILL be revisiting this at the end of next season, and if what happens, what I think will happen for this upcoming year(not as good as the previous year), I WILL be digging up every single post about "upward trajectory", every single post blasting Buzz for his last year and it being a "downward trajectory", and calling EFER single one of you out on your total and complete hypocrisy, and I do NOT want to hear sh&t like "well, he represents the University well etc etc". Nope, your #1 basis for supporting him was "upward trajectory", so you MUST stick to that, and I will make sure every single one of you does.
This is going to be soooo good. Chicos has a HUGE target on his back...this should truly expose him, I'm guessing. :)
So you are rooting for a bad season so that you can say 'I told you so' to everyone who doesn't want Wojo fired. Quite the character you are revealing.
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Okay for Chicos especially and all of those that keep rambling on and on and on about "upward trajectory" and that's what Wojo has been on(according to them), now keep in mind you are all the same people that slam buzz repeatedly for his last year and a "downward trajectory" etc etc...so what happens when MU's season isn't as good this year as it was last year?? isn't that a "downward" trajectory?? That would go totally against your incessant ramblings of "upward trajectory, you can't get rid of him etc etc". Are all of you going to make excuses then if that occurs, cut him some slack, or...?? This will be an interesting case study to see if these people that are so consistent with their ramblings of "upward trajectory" sudeenly switch course after this season(if it's worse than last year), make excuses, or are still supportive of him even though it would go against everything they use to suggest he should still be supported which is "upward trajectory". I think it's going to prove that most use that as a "crutch" to argue, just for aregument's sake.
All I know is I'm grabbing my popcorn for this one, sitting back, watching the show and we WILL be revisiting this at the end of next season, and if what happens, what I think will happen for this upcoming year(not as good as the previous year), I WILL be digging up every single post about "upward trajectory", every single post blasting Buzz for his last year and it being a "downward trajectory", and calling EFER single one of you out on your total and complete hypocrisy, and I do NOT want to hear sh&t like "well, he represents the University well etc etc". Nope, your #1 basis for supporting him was "upward trajectory", so you MUST stick to that, and I will make sure every single one of you does.
This is going to be soooo good. Chicos has a HUGE target on his back...this should truly expose him, I'm guessing. :)
There's a huge problem with this position. Even after Buzz' bad year, no one was calling for him to get fired. Even in hindsight, I don't remember anyone saying we should have fired Buzz. Even Willie, who hated Buzz more than anyone, said he didn't want him fired.
So you comparing the "Buzz haters" to "Wojo supporters" doesn't really work. One, because the Wojo supporters wanted to keep Buzz even after his bad season and two, because I don't think anyone was mad at Buzz for "downward trajectory". They are mad because they subscribe to the belief that Buzz quit a year early and stuck around to keep a paycheck. Something I never bought into personally, I just think he was caught with his pants down when Blue went pro.
If next year is worse than last year that will be a red flag. Depending on how big of one, it may be time to move on from Wojo. But if we end up with a 6 seed next season instead of a 5 seed, then no, it won't be time to fire Wojo.
You're problem Guru is that you are too dualistic in your thinking. The coach is either doing great or should be fired. Except in extreme circumstances, a coach doesn't go from an ice cold seat to fired in a single season. That's why the concept of a hot seat exists. Wojo isn't on the hot seat yet. In fact, last season made his seat colder not warmer. He'd have to have a trainwreck of a season to deserve being fired next season.
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So you are rooting for a bad season so that you can say 'I told you so' to everyone who doesn't want Wojo fired. Quite the character you are revealing.
Nope, not rooting for a worse season at all..,.but thanks for trying. I'm just saying IF it is worse, some people here are going to be held accountable. That's all I'm saying, that's fair, isn't it?? Hypocrisy exposed is never a bad thing, is it?? Chicos said i was being hypocritical about something in a different post, so..I can do it to him to.
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The other factor is we had a moronic AD who was constantly undermining the best coach we had since Al. Eccentricities aside Buzz was a legit coach.Lovell’s first week on the job and he by default went to the “ safe “ choice in Wojo.
What makes you think Buzz would have stayed even with another AD or president? He left New Orleans. He left Marquette. He had everything he asked for at VT and still left. My guess is that he's gone from Texas A&M in another 5-6 years.
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There's a huge problem with this position. Even after Buzz' bad year, no one was calling for him to get fired. Even in hindsight, I don't remember anyone saying we should have fired Buzz. Even Willie, who hated Buzz more than anyone, said he didn't want him fired.
So you comparing the "Buzz haters" to "Wojo supporters" doesn't really work. One, because the Wojo supporters wanted to keep Buzz even after his bad season and two, because I don't think anyone was mad at Buzz for "downward trajectory". They are mad because they subscribe to the belief that Buzz quit a year early and stuck around to keep a paycheck. Something I never bought into personally, I just think he was caught with his pants down when Blue went pro.
If next year is worse than last year that will be a red flag. Depending on how big of one, it may be time to move on from Wojo. But if we end up with a 6 seed next season instead of a 5 seed, then no, it won't be time to fire Wojo.
You're problem Guru is that you are too dualistic in your thinking. The coach is either doing great or should be fired. Except in extreme circumstances, a coach doesn't go from an ice cold seat to fired in a single season. That's why the concept of a hot seat exists. Wojo isn't on the hot seat yet. In fact, last season made his seat colder not warmer. He'd have to have a trainwreck of a season to deserve being fired next season.
And your problem TAMU is you are too accepting and too patient...maybe it's because you're young I don't know. What you consider a "trainwreck" of a season, I have a feeling is way different then what some(including me) would consider a trainwreck of a season. And to me, that all comes down to what one expects/wants from the MU program.
And I will ask you..why do you(especially) and others let Wojo so easily off the hook that after 5 years in, his level of success has not met Crean or Buzz's level?? You can't use the "look what he inherited compared to" argument..that was long enough ago and as I have been told "move on". If Crean and Buzz could establish those levels(Buzz in a much stronger conference it should be noted), why shouldn't Wojo have been able to?? And why should people find that acceptable??
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Wojo has won 84 games the last 4 seasons. Firing coaches averaging 21 wins a year is dumb.
Please list the coaches you think are gettable for Marquette. Keeping in mind the UCLA, SJU and Michigan coach searches and results.
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I have a tendency to agree with most of Herman Cain's posts. That said I'm also a believer in human development among a percentage of the population. We're about to find that out definitively regarding Wojo. He and his current staff are outstanding recruiters. Game management and putting all the elements of a roster might best be described as a work in progress at best.
As to our former head coach, I'll give him his due -- Marquette and VPI had some outstanding seasons. He left a mess at Marquette. How much you blame him or the former administration can be argued. If Pope John Paul the First was running Marquette I doubt BW would have stayed. It's not his nature. What fans saw were some major maturity and emotional problems. Some charitably might call it growing pains. I would disagree.
BW taped into an under-recruited JUCO market that he knew well and hired a veteran JUCO coach and mentor that helped make the transition to being a legitimate D-1 head coach. Wojo's initial mistake was failing to hire an experienced former head coach and a weak staff in general. (assistants didn't have the right balance of skills) That lead to an inability to strike the right balance on the roster. (recruiting and skill development of players) BW didn't do Wojo any favors, unlike Crean's hand off to BW.
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Nope, not rooting for a worse season at all..,.but thanks for trying. I'm just saying IF it is worse, some people here are going to be held accountable. That's all I'm saying, that's fair, isn't it?? Hypocrisy exposed is never a bad thing, is it?? Chicos said i was being hypocritical about something in a different post, so..I can do it to him to.
I’ve tried to stay out of the Wojo argument, but really dude, how are you going to hold people here accountable?
Stomp your feet? Come on Scoop and sound really, really mad? Go to their house and yell at them or beat them up? Or just make a nasty face in the mirror?
Stop embarrassing yourself.
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And I will ask you..why do you(especially) and others let Wojo so easily off the hook that after 5 years in, his level of success has not met Crean or Buzz's level?? You can't use the "look what he inherited compared to" argument..that was long enough ago and as I have been told "move on". If Crean and Buzz could establish those levels(Buzz in a much stronger conference it should be noted), why shouldn't Wojo have been able to?? And why should people find that acceptable??
Because there's no hook that Wojo needs to be left off. The last five years have been good. Not as an end goal but as an important first step on the road to being elite. Like you told us:
How about this?? You have to walk before you can run, right??
After two years of a necessary rebuild, Wojo is starting to match Crean/Buzz level success. Last three years have been 10 seed, NIT, 5 seed. Buzz had seasons of 11 seed, 6 seed, and no postseason, worse than what Wojo has turned in. Crean had multiple NIT seasons, seasons of 8 and 6 seeds, worse than that what Crean turned in. Crean had one season better than Wojo and Buzz had two, all three were 3 seeds. I believe Wojo will get there too.
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Nope, not rooting for a worse season at all..,.but thanks for trying. I'm just saying IF it is worse, some people here are going to be held accountable. That's all I'm saying, that's fair, isn't it?? Hypocrisy exposed is never a bad thing, is it?? Chicos said i was being hypocritical about something in a different post, so..I can do it to him to.
LOL. Or you could just admit your hypocrisy, that was the other option.
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And your problem TAMU is you are too accepting and too patient...maybe it's because you're young I don't know. What you consider a "trainwreck" of a season, I have a feeling is way different then what some(including me) would consider a trainwreck of a season. And to me, that all comes down to what one expects/wants from the MU program.
And I will ask you..why do you(especially) and others let Wojo so easily off the hook that after 5 years in, his level of success has not met Crean or Buzz's level?? You can't use the "look what he inherited compared to" argument..that was long enough ago and as I have been told "move on". If Crean and Buzz could establish those levels(Buzz in a much stronger conference it should be noted), why shouldn't Wojo have been able to?? And why should people find that acceptable??
Normally someone “seasoned” with experience has patience and doesn’t knee jerk at hiccups. What happened with your progression?
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LOL. Or you could just admit your hypocrisy, that was the other option.
I will if you do at the end of the season if MU's trajectory is down, then you won't have your "upward trajectory" nonsense to fall back on, and will HAVE no choice to admit your hypocrisy. Eye for an eye. No excuses.
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+100. How ridiculous!
I’ve tried to stay out of the Wojo argument, but really dude, how are you going to hold people here accountable?
Stomp your feet? Come on Scoop and sound really, really mad? Go to their house and yell at them or beat them up? Or just make a nasty face in the mirror?
Stop embarrassing yourself.
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Normally someone “seasoned” with experience has patience and doesn’t knee jerk at hiccups. What happened with your progression?
You tell me...you won't let Buzz off the hook for his last season which was a total "hiccup" after he had taken the program to heights MU hadn't seen since Al. When Wojo gets to that level, I will absolutely give him a break for a "hiccup".
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You tell me...you won't let Buzz off the hook for his last season which was a total "hiccup" after he had taken the program to heights MU hadn't seen since Al. When Wojo gets to that level, I will absolutely give him a break for a "hiccup".
Because he quit on the program and university during his tenure and got paid another year to fake it...Wojo hasn’t quit on either, let alone brought in some people that had no business representing this school EVER.
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I will if you do at the end of the season if MU's trajectory is down, then you won't have your "upward trajectory" nonsense to fall back on, and will HAVE no choice to admit your hypocrisy. Eye for an eye. No excuses.
I said season trajectory which I was absolutely correct on.
Using your logic, if we go 16-15 for the year but win the last 6 games, make no tournament, that is better than this year despite making the NCAA tournament....because of end of season trajectory. LOL, forgive me for not playing your ridiculous suggested comparison.
Have I said the end of the year was bad? Yup...many times.
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I said season trajectory which I was absolutely correct on.
Using your logic, if we go 16-15 for the year but win the last 6 games, make no tournament, that is better than this year despite making the NCAA tournament....because of end of season trajectory. LOL, forgive me for not playing your ridiculous suggested comparison.
Have I said the end of the year was bad? Yup...many times.
What the hell are you talking about?? There is ZERO scenario I would say 16-15 was better then this year. You claim Wojo is on an upward trajectory(season wise...I have never said that wasn't what you said)..okay you defend that argument to the fullest...but if they don't have as good of a season this year(record wise, seed etc), you will NO longer have that "upward trajectory argument" to fall back on. Will you be here at the end of the year with excuses for why(probably so), or will you accept that your upward trajectory nonsense isn't a usable argument anymore??
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Better question - if mu wins more games next year or has a better ncaa seed or wins an ncaa game, will muguru go away please?
What the hell are you talking about?? There is ZERO scenario I would say 16-15 was better then this year. You claim Wojo is on an upward trajectory(season wise...I have never said that wasn't what you said)..okay you defend that argument to the fullest...but if they don't have as good of a season this year(record wise, seed etc), you will NO longer have that "upward trajectory argument" to fall back on. Will you be here at the end of the year with excuses for why(probably so), or will you accept that your upward trajectory nonsense isn't a usable argument anymore??
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Given that Crean coached a team to the Final Four and Buzz didn't, did Buzz really reach "heights MU hadn't seen since Al"? Is a Final Four not higher than an E8 or a S16?
I say the above as a fan who appreciates the good both of those coaches did for our program, as one who enjoyed most of both the Crean and Buzz eras, and as one who could accept if one claims that Buzz brought MU more consistent success than Crean did while acknowledging Buzz walked into a better situation than Crean did. But a higher height? That's simply not true.
Oh, and aren't we "Moving on" in this thread rather than constantly, annoyingly, desperately looking back over and over and over again? I guess not.
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What the hell are you talking about?? There is ZERO scenario I would say 16-15 was better then this year. You claim Wojo is on an upward trajectory(season wise...I have never said that wasn't what you said)..okay you defend that argument to the fullest...but if they don't have as good of a season this year(record wise, seed etc), you will NO longer have that "upward trajectory argument" to fall back on. Will you be here at the end of the year with excuses for why(probably so), or will you accept that your upward trajectory nonsense isn't a usable argument anymore??
I have been using rating systems and many of them in a combined format so as not to be accused of any bias. I published my work, sourced it, etc. That is what I will continue to use.
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Better question - if mu wins more games next year or has a better ncaa seed or wins an ncaa game, will muguru go away please?
Deal! IF chicos agrees to admit his upward trajectory argument is total bunk if the opposite happens. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE for them to have a better year next year.
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I have been using rating systems and many of them in a combined format so as not to be accused of any bias. I published my work, sourced it, etc. That is what I will continue to use.
Of course you will...stay gold chicos, stay gold...never admit when you're wrong. Next year the record could be worse, lower seed, etc, and ONE rating system would show they improved in a category and you would use that to say "the trajectory is upward", because that's what you do..You do you better than anyone I have ever seen. You must be so proud.
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Deal! IF chicos agrees to admit his upward trajectory argument is total bunk if the opposite happens. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE for them to have a better year next year.
What do I have to do with this at all? You are a child. The man asked you if MU fulfills that target will you go away....that was with you and him. Man up.
Meanwhile, there is nothing wrong with my upward trajectory argument.....in fact the AD said the same thing when Wojo just got his extension. I’ll bet that rubbed you raw. LOL.
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Fair enough. We’ll spread it out to all threads created.
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What do I have to do with this at all? You are a child. The man asked you if MU fulfills that target will you go away....that was with you and him. Man up.
Meanwhile, there is nothing wrong with my upward trajectory argument.....in fact the AD said the same thing when Wojo just got his extension. I’ll bet that rubbed you raw. LOL.
The AD is a small time thinker...what else did you expect him to say after he just gave Wojo an extension?? PR 101. There will be a lot wrong with your argument if this season isn't as good...I hope you acknowledge that when the time comes.
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Of course you will...stay gold chicos, stay gold...never admit when you're wrong. Next year the record could be worse, lower seed, etc, and ONE rating system would show they improved in a category and you would use that to say "the trajectory is upward", because that's what you do..You do you better than anyone I have ever seen. You must be so proud.
The data is the data....the trend line crystal clear. What is wrong about it? Here is your chance to show how smart you are. Do I need to publish the chart again for you? I can give you the raw data and you can run the analysis yourself if you wish.
By the way, as I mentioned and your response clearly ignores, I average out all the rating systems which should help to normalize any bias. I published each score. I’m happy to throw the high and low out, still will show the same result.
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The AD is a small time thinker...what else did you expect him to say after he just gave Wojo an extension?? PR 101. There will be a lot wrong with your argument if this season isn't as good...I hope you acknowledge that when the time comes.
He’s not a big time thinker like you I guess. Or, he just made a factually correct statement using data on performance...same as I did. Ahh, it using data would be wrong.
Tell me, is a 5 seed better than an 8 seed and a NIT seed? We could use that instead....yes or no?
This is great....please prove the data wrong.
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He’s not a big time thinker like you I guess. Or, he just made a factually correct statement using data on performance...same as I did. Ahh, it using data would be wrong.
Tell me, is a 5 seed better than an 8 seed and a NIT seed? We could use that instead....yes or no?
This is great....please prove the data wrong.
Would it kill the AD to spend $12 million on a coach?
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Would it kill the AD to spend $12 million on a coach?
He is, over a 5 year period. :D
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The AD is a small time thinker...what else did you expect him to say after he just gave Wojo an extension?? PR 101. There will be a lot wrong with your argument if this season isn't as good...I hope you acknowledge that when the time comes.
Small time. Not giving the extensions handicaps the program's recruiting ability. You would hamper the program because your are angry that the last 5 years haven't gone the way you wanted. Beyond small time.
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He’s not a big time thinker like you I guess. Or, he just made a factually correct statement using data on performance...same as I did. Ahh, it using data would be wrong.
Tell me, is a 5 seed better than an 8 seed and a NIT seed? We could use that instead....yes or no?
This is great....please prove the data wrong.
The data isn't wrong...the problem is, you use it to boast about how great of a job Wojo is doing. THAT'S the problem. Talk about small time thinking, if the results of the last 5 years are acceptable to anyone. Especially when the two previous Coaches had accomplished more after the same time, and one did it in the toughest conference ever assembled. Trust me, I hope Wojo accomplishes what some here seem to think he's capable of..because that means MU is successful.
Looking so forward to your refrain if this year isn't as good as the previous year. Probably go down as one of the best excuse ridden, spin jobs of all time. So you'll have that going for you anyway. :)
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Buzz quit a year early and still got paid by MU to roam the sidelines. Character revealed.
We were picked unanimously to win the Big East, finished 6th. Scored 35 points against Ohio State in a drubbing to lose our ranking. Close losses...how about close wins against New Hampshire? Needing OT to beat DePaul. A roster management that was a mess and several players that had no business EVER being in a MU uniform.
Do you think a starting back court of Thomas and Derrick Wilson had any chance of winning the Big East?
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Do you think a starting back court of Thomas and Derrick Wilson had any chance of winning the Big East?
The Big East coaches did as well as the media covering the Big East teams.
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The data isn't wrong...the problem is, you use it to boast about how great of a job Wojo is doing. THAT'S the problem. Talk about small time thinking, if the results of the last 5 years are acceptable to anyone. Especially when the two previous Coaches had accomplished more after the same time, and one did it in the toughest conference ever assembled. Trust me, I hope Wojo accomplishes what some here seem to think he's capable of..because that means MU is successful.
Looking so forward to your refrain if this year isn't as good as the previous year. Probably go down as one of the best excuse ridden, spin jobs of all time. So you'll have that going for you anyway. :)
Cool, so you admit the data is right and our trajectory has been going in the right direction for a young, first time head coach. And you want to fire him coming off his best year....why again?
Do I expect this year to be as good as the last year, with two major departures...I don’t know. Do I expect it to be a dumpster fire like some said last month? No. Barring major injuries, I expect to be in the NCAA tournament again.
The two previous coaches did some good things and not so good things....in some cases some really good and really bad. We will see how this all shakes out.
I expect Wojo’s year six to be better than Buzz’s and Crean’s were in their year 6....since you are the one bringing up the two previous coaches.
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This is fun
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Do you think a starting back court of Thomas and Derrick Wilson had any chance of winning the Big East?
Nope. I think it is the worst starting backcourt Marquette has had in the last half-century.
And it's on Buzz that they were the starting backcourt.