MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: WadeDienerNovak on April 17, 2019, 09:17:28 PM
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1) From year to year, most of his players get worse, not better, under his watch
For example: Luke Fischer, who had his best year as a sophomore and lost his starting spot to Matt Heldt as a senior; Matt Heldt who started as a sophomore and junior but was relegated to garbage time as a senior; Cheatham, who showed remarkable promise as a freshman but failed to develop as a sophomore and then transferred; JaJuan Johnson, who appeared to be turning a corner as a junior but ended up in and out of the lineup and clearly wasn't on the same page as Wojo as a senior; Duane Wilson who played his best ball as a red-shirt freshman and was then relegated to a 9th man role before transferring; Harry Froling had a year to learn the game from the bench and get in shape but by the time he hit the court he looked utterly inept on both offense and defense. If there were a scattering of players who diminished under Wojo it would be less concerning. But this is a trend.
2) Within individual seasons, most players do not improve under his watch
For example: Juan Anderson and Carlino as seniors got much worse as the season wore on; Henry Ellenson added nothing to his game as his single season at MU wore on; when Rowsey stepped into a more substantial role as a senior he was a great shooter who couldn't play a lick of D and on the day he graduated Rowsey was a great shooter who couldn't play a lick of D; Joey Hauser had a far better first half to his single season at MU than he did in the second half. Guys don't improve intraseason.
3) He can not make game-to-game adjustments when opponents key in on weaknesses
In 2018/19, our loss to Villanova put a clear blueprint for frustrating Markus on film. Trap him with two bigs at the top of the key and he will struggle passing out of the trap. If he breaks the trap and coasts into the lane, interior defenders should leave their man and try to take charges in the lane. One team after another executed this simple strategy as we lost five of our last six games leading into the tourney. Turnovers skyrocketed as the team played more carelessly to finish the season than they did to start it. Although the Hausers were consistently effective posting or facing up from 10-12 feet outside the lane, we failed to emphasize this option in our half-court sets. Wojo failed to adjust. Unclear if he is unable to communicate a change in strategy or doesn't understand the problem to begin with. In 2017/18, our defense was statistically worse than any other high major program in the country. As the season wore on and his offense-friendly lineups continued to get us crushed, he made no apparent adjustments and we let another year pass, missing the tourney in spite of our impressively talented roster.
4) He can not make in-game adjustments when it becomes apparent the game plan isn't working
Wojo's strategy in guarding Ja Morant (a dynamic passer) was to double him at the top of the key and see if he could make the correct read and pass to the open man. In the first half he ate us alive with one assist after another. Wojo's misguided strategy was getting us nowhere but he came out in the second half and continued on, possession after possession. When our offense stagnated he continued allowing Markus to play hero ball at the end of the shot clock instead of getting the ball to the Hauser's 10-12 feet from the hoop where they were (ONCE AGAIN) having success. In his only other postseason appearance, South Carolina crushed us by 20 as Wojo looked on like a deer in headlights. They scored nearly 100 points as we failed to make any defensive adjustments whatsoever.
5) He cannot adequately handle personality conflicts
His botching of the Howard/Hausers conflict was unacceptable. Some have asked, "What was he supposed to do? Let them have their way?" This is besides the point. It never should have gotten this out of control to begin with. He should've anticipated they would be displeased with his constant failure to adequately incorporate their obvious talents into the offense. Wojo came into the season talking about Markus needing to be "more selfish" if we were going to win. Markus doesn't need to be selfish. Run an equal opportunity offense. This is college basketball. Not the NBA. You don't need to encourage isolation play instead of moving the ball and taking what the offense gives you. If the Hausers are having success posting up, why force them to watch Markus struggle as turnovers accumulate and the lead dwindles away? Wojo not only allowed this personality conflict to spiral out of control....he seemingly unwittingly set the whole thing up. This is the second Wisconsin basketball family he has watched leave on sour terms. His handling of the Ellenson brothers was a disgrace. He burnt a bridge with the family when he sent Wally packing after Henry declared. The parents were understandably upset and his mother was vocal about her displeasure. He grossly mismanaged the situation.
6) The motion offense he runs is ineffective
As stated above, although it is technically a motion offense, it is clearly not "equal opportunity," and the players know it. It stagnates. Last second heaves are commonplace. Players don't look as though they get more comfortable in his offense over time.
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Disagree
Disagree
Agree
Agree
Undecided but leaning towards agree.
Disagree
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What a depressing topic -- and very well stated. Can't wait for that empty suit to leave MU.
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What a depressing topic -- and very well stated. Can't wait for that empty suit to leave MU.
I agree with this analysis.
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7) Milwaukee recruiting completely off limits due to the handling of DuWil and Burton
8) NOWI recruiting completely off limits due to Ellenson and now Hauser family meltdowns
9) Chicagoland recruiting off limits because Chris Collins is there.
10) JUCO recruiting off limits because that's not SLU's style
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What are you all complaining about???
I think he is a very good coach and recruiter. And he comes from a winning pedigree having come from Duke.
I think they lost some close and very tough games, late which happens.
Big deal.
But in this instance, it's the player's man, not the coaches at the end of the day. You have to factor that in. Coaches get too much of the blame in college ball.
Hey, I will take Wojo and 24 wins EVERY YEAR. His deficiency was NO POINT GUARD PLAY.
That was out of his control with guys sitting out and another guy injured and the other they brought in playing too passive.
So after Rowsey left he had to devise a system that suited his next best player, and feature player, and that happened to be one Markus Howard. even some might not agree.
I even admit that I thought that they did not use the big man enough and work it from the inside/out on offense instead of having one guy hoist up the shots.
When Greg went down and Chartouny gave them nothing that forced Markus to do more than he should and had him play out of position.
It was a testament that they won as many as they did actually with the infighting and the turmoil we are just learning about.
In January they were a top 5 team in the entire country. He will be just fine when this kid McEwen comes and Greg is back and he can play a more uptempo and aggressive style the full length of the court.
The defense was much improved, they were a surprisingly good rebounding team and you saw some improvements and some of his players get better like Theo and Sacar.
If the team stays as it is, and no one else jumps ship I am excited for next year...
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Disagree
Disagree
Agree
Agree
Undecided but leaning towards agree.
Disagree
This is a more accurate assessment.
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Crap. We've had it wrong this whole time. Coaches only get 4 years.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-coaching-moves-grading-2015s-biggest-hires-four-years-later/ (https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/college-basketball-coaching-moves-grading-2015s-biggest-hires-four-years-later/)
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Somebody should go tell Sacar, Brendan, Theo, Sam, and Markus about #1 and #2.
Also, sophomore Matt Heldt started 7 games and played 13 minutes. Senior Luke Fischer started 25 and played 24 minutes. Even if you were accurate, how is it a knock on Wojo that he brought in better players (Ed vs. Harry freaking Froling) that passed up Matt?
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11) His timeout huddles are never instructional or directional, but mainly vague statements.
Sentence 1 : (Something obvious about hustle/boxing out/ball movement)
Sentence 2 : (While looking around at the 5 starters... state the exact same thing in the reverse order
Example :
S1 : 'We need to outhustle our opponent!' (pause, pause, pause)
S2 : 'Outhustling our opponent will be key!' (pause, pause, pause, horn to resume game)
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And the classic “Don’t be dismayed.”
Too late, Coach. I’m very dismayed by your tenure
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11) His timeout huddles are never instructional or directional, but mainly vague statements.
Sentence 1 : (Something obvious about hustle/boxing out/ball movement)
Sentence 2 : (While looking around at the 5 starters... state the exact same thing in the reverse order
Example :
S1 : 'We need to outhustle our opponent!' (pause, pause, pause)
S2 : 'Outhustling our opponent will be key!' (pause, pause, pause, horn to resume game)
So you really think what they show on tv is all that is discussed in huddles?
Wow.
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So you really think what they show on tv is all that is discussed in huddles?
Wow.
I too laughed about this point on Wojo when it was first said a few years ago.
FS1 does this with all the league coaches, though. Gotta say, a good number provide a lot more nuance during the in the huddle segments than Wojo does. My favorite is McDermott.
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I think FS1 gets a kick out of putting the huddle conversation on TV. He seems to get more air time than most coaches. Five years in and the same huddle talk.
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I think FS1 gets a kick out of putting the huddle conversation on TV. He seems to get more air time than most coaches. Five years in and the same huddle talk.
He gets the same air time as every other coach in the conference.
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here's what i think happened-wojo may have told joey something along the lines of-his role on the team would be different next year as we've got some new stuff coming in to compete for minutes. his defensive woes along with his turnovers were cited. joey was given such a long long leash that jamal was goin, what the...
wojo takes heat for the team meltdown, re-thinks his strategy and after 5 seasons, decides he needs to put his big boy coaches pants on and...
that's when all schnit hits the fan. sammy(and daddy) says, that's a wojo no-no and decides to sacrifice a year with joey(family's that play together, stay together), work on their games and use all of this as bulletin board material.
just my 32 cents worth. ok, play nice
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here's what i think happened-wojo may have told joey something along the lines of-his role on the team would be different next year as we've got some new stuff coming in to compete for minutes. his defensive woes along with his turnovers were cited. joey was given such a long long leash that jamal was goin, what the...
wojo takes heat for the team meltdown, re-thinks his strategy and after 5 seasons, decides he needs to put his big boy coaches pants on and...
that's when all schnit hits the fan. sammy(and daddy) says, that's a wojo no-no and decides to sacrifice a year with joey(family's that play together, stay together), work on their games and use all of this as bulletin board material.
just my 32 cents worth. ok, play nice
No
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No
fair enough
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Rocket
Joey was not going to have diminished role. Again, everyone is high on Elliott making a big jump, but based off small sample size. Joey has a much bigger sample size and to not think he would improve is crazy. The loss of Joey will prove to big a one down the road.
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Rocket
Joey was not going to have diminished role. Again, everyone is high on Elliott making a big jump, but based off small sample size. Joey has a much bigger sample size and to not think he would improve is crazy. The loss of Joey will prove to big a one down the road.
Joey would have been a major piece but do you really believe he wouldn't have lost some minutes with KM and GE being added? JC only averaged 10-11 mpg from the start of Big East play to the end of the season and KM and GE could easily account for 35-40 this season. I think you believe Sacar would have lost the most time but I'm not entirely sure of that.
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Rocket
Joey was not going to have diminished role. Again, everyone is high on Elliott making a big jump, but based off small sample size. Joey has a much bigger sample size and to not think he would improve is crazy. The loss of Joey will prove to big a one down the road.
hey goose-i wish him a the good fortunes in the world. he's got everything one needs to have in order to improve.
btw, if he goes to wisconsin, just remember butch and sam
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Joey would have been a major piece but do you really believe he wouldn't have lost some minutes with KM and GE being added? JC only averaged 10-11 mpg from the start of Big East play to the end of the season and KM and GE could easily account for 35-40 this season. I think you believe Sacar would have lost the most time but I'm not entirely sure of that.
exactly my thinking there blue
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So you really think what they show on tv is all that is discussed in huddles?
Wow.
And yet all season long whenever they showed Wojo in the huddle it was the same stuff. When they showed other teams/coaches, I saw some good strategy and discussion taking place. Is Wojo that paranoid that someone might hear him give good basketball advice that he won't when the cameras are on? Weird.....
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Wojo's actual deficiencies, in my estimation:
- Adjustments: I feel like he lags in terms of halftime adjustments & changing strategies on the fly. His gameplans are generally fine, his ATO plays are great, but if the overall scheme isn't working, I don't know that he's one of the best to change things up to turn the tide of a game.
- Recruiting to system: I love the Hausers, but they didn't fit the defense he wanted to run. The Rowsey/Howard combination was notably problematic. I feel like, especially early on, he was adjusting entire classes as he learned what didn't work. Hopefully this improves, but to date it's been a problem.
- Ball Dominant Offensive Players: Howard is just the most recent. Rowsey, Ellenson, & Carlino were similar. Wojo's offense at its best is predicated on sharing the ball, having multiple shooters, & being able to feed the post with efficient post scorers. 2017 is, in my mind, what it's supposed to look like. 5 guys hit 50+ threes, Luke & Matt were both incredibly efficient, 7 guys scored between 8-13 points. All the other years the offense was centered on 1-2 players. I'm not sure why he falls into it, but I feel it's a deficiency.
- Communication: Whether it's the overdiscussed huddles, the inability to keep next year's roster together, or the complaints we've heard from Froling of late, it seems like there's a communication problem. Strife & competitiveness between players is fine. That is just life. But you need to be able to settle it. If he doesn't correct this, I suspect his tenure at Marquette won't be for much longer.
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Lol at the complaints about Wojo's huddles resurfacing. Absolutely hysterical and 100% proof that the fans just look for anything to complain about when it comes to Wojo. I get it, people think I'm as big of a Wojo apologist as they come. The reality is, and I've said this many times, there are plenty, PLENTY, of things to complain about with the coaching staff/schemes/program. But the timeout huddles shown on FS1? L-O-L! They contractually cannot show anything strategic being discussed!
But you guys are right, it became VERY evident how Jay Wright won 2 national titles when FS1 cut into their huddle and he gave his team a speech about how this was a "great opportunity in front of them" and how they "didn't have to be perfect, but they needed to value every possession!" when they were down 15 at Marquette in the second half. Just completely profound stuff there, a sign of a truly good coach.
Come on now. The FS1 huddle cam.
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Whether it's the overdiscussed huddles, the inability to keep next year's roster together, or the complaints we've heard from Froling of late, it seems like there's a communication problem.
The guy who left two schools after one year and whose brother left school after one year? I'd take what he says with a grain of salt.
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Rocket
Joey was not going to have diminished role. Again, everyone is high on Elliott making a big jump, but based off small sample size. Joey has a much bigger sample size and to not think he would improve is crazy. The loss of Joey will prove to big a one down the road.
Agree with this analysis
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The guy who left two schools after one year and whose brother left school after one year? I'd take what he says with a grain of salt.
Sure, maybe so, but the expectation of reduced transfers hasn't really been the case. I'll be the first to say that my huddles comment was tongue in cheek, but I do think there are some communication issues overall. The loss of either Hauser, as near as I can tell, would be unprecedented. A junior that was one of the stars, all-conference, & expected to start on a top-10 team leaving without being able to play immediately and no roster changes? Never heard of that before. A first-team high-major freshman that would be a presumptive starter on a top-10 team leaving and burning a year of eligibility in the process? Haven't heard that before either. Both at the same time? That's a problem. No way around it.
And this isn't the first time we've seen some questionable transfers that seem to be communication related. Gabe Levin left never seeing the court. Steve Taylor going for the sit-one/play-one before that became a thing (and it is still fairly uncommon). Traci Carter leaving mid-season after being a freshman starter. Froling leaving to go pro after being a bit contributor then talking about how his situation was similar to the Hausers after the fact. Haanif leaving when he had started & earned 20+ mpg in every game. There are plenty that were fairly straight-forward, but some that were pretty weird. Individually, they can all be explained, but in general we have 1-2 kind of weird transfers each season. That would seem to be down to some sort of communication problem.
People who defend Wojo on everything are willing to excuse everything. People who want him fired immediately find a way to blame him for everything. I'm neither of those, but I do think there are a lot of concerning issues that give me pause & there are very few sentinel moments to convince me he's the long-term answer. And when we're in the midst of two simultaneously unprecedented transfers out, I think it's fair to at least consider the words of those that left here feeling slighted.
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And this isn't the first time we've seen some questionable transfers that seem to be communication related. Gabe Levin left never seeing the court. Steve Taylor going for the sit-one/play-one before that became a thing (and it is still fairly uncommon). Traci Carter leaving mid-season after being a freshman starter. Froling leaving to go pro after being a bit contributor then talking about how his situation was similar to the Hausers after the fact. Haanif leaving when he had started & earned 20+ mpg in every game. There are plenty that were fairly straight-forward, but some that were pretty weird. Individually, they can all be explained, but in general we have 1-2 kind of weird transfers each season. That would seem to be down to some sort of communication problem.
Hausers are certainly a red flag. The rest of those? Not so sure. Levin and Taylor both left after Henry committed. Traci left when it became apparent that Rowsey and Howard were going to take all of his minutes. Froling was bad. Haanif depends on if you believe that he truly wanted to move home or not. Could have been a red flag I guess.
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Hausers are certainly a red flag. The rest of those? Not so sure. Levin and Taylor both left after Henry committed. Traci left when it became apparent that Rowsey and Howard were going to take all of his minutes. Froling was bad. Haanif depends on if you believe that he truly wanted to move home or not. Could have been a red flag I guess.
Like I said, individually they can all be excused. Collectively, it seems like it's the head coach who should communicate to guys how their roles may be impacted by new arrivals. The Hausers are a screaming, neon sign level red flag, but I think the others may have been caution signs that we just dismissed because, as I said, individually they can all be explained & they were spread apart.
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Like I said, individually they can all be excused. Collectively, it seems like it's the head coach who should communicate to guys how their roles may be impacted by new arrivals. The Hausers are a screaming, neon sign level red flag, but I think the others may have been caution signs that we just dismissed because, as I said, individually they can all be explained & they were spread apart.
Eh....D1 programs average somewhere between 2-3 transfers a year. I'm having a hard time saying that 1-2 easily explainable transfers a year should have been warning signs.