MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: muguru on April 17, 2019, 09:05:17 PM
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Yeah I started a new thread...I don't give a unnatural carnal knowledge...The amount of criticism I see levied here against Markus, Joey, Sam and other players is beyond despicable. It's things like this that Scoop has the poor reputation that it does. For those of us that are parents, imagine coming here and seeing some of the things being said about YOUR kids in a public open, forum. Worse yet, imagine being one of the players and reading what is being said about you...these are your supposed fans, alumni, people that you THOUGHT supported you, and you have to read the sh*t being posted about you here.
I don't know what's worse, those that run their mouths and bad mouth these kids, or the moderators here that allow it. These are college kids...adults yes, but that does NOT make it okay. You wanna criticize the staff, administration etc, by all means go right ahead. And I'd guarantee you they would say the EXACT same thing. They do read these boards and are stunned at some of the things they read.
So go ahead...you wanna take out your anger, frustrations whatever it is...tell ya what, do it on me, beat me up, call me any name you want, rip my posts, my character, whatever you want. I'm an adult, I can handle it, and frankly I don't give a damn what any of you think of me. But i do give a damn what you say about the players. that is NEVER acceptable.
If the mods want to ban me for speaking my mind and calling them out, I could care less...but they are responsible for allowing that kind of sh*t here.
Character revealed indeed by all of you...frankly, it's flat out pathetic.
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(https://media0.giphy.com/media/xUOxfnucal8J1HP8DS/giphy.gif?cid=790b76115cb7dd7e634a794f6bfcde28)
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Yeah I started a new thread...I don't give a unnatural carnal knowledge...The amount of criticism I see levied here against Markus, Joey, Sam and other players is beyond despicable. It's things like this that Scoop has the poor reputation that it does. For those of us that are parents, imagine coming here and seeing some of the things being said about YOUR kids in a public open, forum. Worse yet, imagine being one of the players and reading what is being said about you...these are your supposed fans, alumni, people that you THOUGHT supported you, and you have to read the sh*t being posted about you here.
I don't know what's worse, those that run their mouths and bad mouth these kids, or the moderators here that allow it. These are college kids...adults yes, but that does NOT make it okay. You wanna criticize the staff, administration etc, by all means go right ahead. And I'd guarantee you they would say the EXACT same thing. They do read these boards and are stunned at some of the things they read.
So go ahead...you wanna take out your anger, frustrations whatever it is...tell ya what, do it on me, beat me up, call me any name you want, rip my posts, my character, whatever you want. I'm an adult, I can handle it, and frankly I don't give a damn what any of you think of me. But i do give a damn what you say about the players. that is NEVER acceptable.
If the mods want to ban me for speaking my mind and calling them out, I could care less...but they are responsible for allowing that kind of sh*t here.
Character revealed indeed by all of you...frankly, it's flat out pathetic.
Are you ever calm?
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Are you ever calm?
No, my blood pressure is sky high.
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May God have mercy on your children's souls.
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No, my blood pressure is sky high.
I mean there are some solutions for that. Maybe you need to take this stuff less seriously. It’s just a game.
And I’m being sincere about this.
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He's not wrong though
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Yeah I started a new thread...I don't give a unnatural carnal knowledge...The amount of criticism I see levied here against Markus, Joey, Sam and other players is beyond despicable. It's things like this that Scoop has the poor reputation that it does. For those of us that are parents, imagine coming here and seeing some of the things being said about YOUR kids in a public open, forum. Worse yet, imagine being one of the players and reading what is being said about you...these are your supposed fans, alumni, people that you THOUGHT supported you, and you have to read the sh*t being posted about you here.
I don't know what's worse, those that run their mouths and bad mouth these kids, or the moderators here that allow it. These are college kids...adults yes, but that does NOT make it okay. You wanna criticize the staff, administration etc, by all means go right ahead. And I'd guarantee you they would say the EXACT same thing. They do read these boards and are stunned at some of the things they read.
So go ahead...you wanna take out your anger, frustrations whatever it is...tell ya what, do it on me, beat me up, call me any name you want, rip my posts, my character, whatever you want. I'm an adult, I can handle it, and frankly I don't give a damn what any of you think of me. But i do give a damn what you say about the players. that is NEVER acceptable.
If the mods want to ban me for speaking my mind and calling them out, I could care less...but they are responsible for allowing that kind of sh*t here.
Character revealed indeed by all of you...frankly, it's flat out pathetic.
I'm a man! I'm 40!
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He's not wrong though
I agree, Tamu. Personally, I think it's unfortunate that an otherwise sensible message got lost in a sea of muguru. Due to some events this past year, I don't have to imagine the situation guru mentions. I've really never been overly inclined to bash the kids on this site, but suffice it to say that I've become more sensitive to that issue this past year. I haven't looked through all my old posts, and I have no doubt that there are some that would make me cringe today. But I really now try to keep my more critical thoughts to myself. I'm sure I fail at times, but I make a conscious effort.
Remember, these are just kids playing a game they love. They're good at it, so they get an amazing opportunity to continue playing in college. And, make no mistake, they are all good. Every single one of them. You don't get an opportunity to play D1 ball unless you are really, really good. They've done nothing to deserve having anonymous posters on a message board trash them. I know they play on TV. I know they're part of a huge business. I even know that sometimes they play badly and/or make bad decisions. But at the end of the day, they're just college students playing basketball. There's no reason that the adults in the room can't hold their tongue and/or soften their comments a bit.
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Is it fair to say: Derrick is a bad shooter? Markus sometimes plays hero ball? Joey turned the ball over too much? What is a fair level of criticism? I generally try to stay objective and calm in my analyses, but sometimes a player is playing lousy. I almost never say a player sucks or he should never see the court again or anything that senseless and stupid. I said that sometimes Theo tried to block everything, leaving himself out of position for rebounds. Fair or unfair?
I guess I am asking you to more clearly define your terms.
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Is it fair to say: Derrick is a bad shooter? Markus sometimes plays hero ball? Joey turned the ball over too much? What is a fair level of criticism? I generally try to stay objective and calm in my analyses, but sometimes a player is playing lousy. I almost never say a player sucks or he should never see the court again or anything that senseless and stupid. I said that sometimes Theo tried to block everything, leaving himself out of position for rebounds. Fair or unfair?
I guess I am asking you to more clearly define your terms.
Player performance should be scrutinized and criticized, such as the examples you give. Calling someone a cancer or quitters or name calling in general is in poor taste.
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Player performance should be scrutinized and criticized, such as the examples you give. Calling someone a cancer or quitters or name calling in general is in poor taste.
I agree. These are kids who have chosen to represent Marquette. And I know I would not want to be judged by decisions I made when I was 19. Kids drink, kids have sex. They always have. The sex needs to be consensual and don't drive after drinking. On the court, as in life, they are works in progress who are not perfect. They have impulses, egos, parents, evolving brains, and they are doing it all in the spotlight.
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Player performance should be scrutinized and criticized, such as the examples you give. Calling someone a cancer or quitters or name calling in general is in poor taste.
Sam and Joey quit the team. That's pretty much a fact.
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Sam and Joey quit the team. That's pretty much a fact.
+1
Do people ever visit other teams message boards? the same thing take place everywhere. Let's not act like this is a scoop issue.
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+1
Do people ever visit other teams message boards? the same thing take place everywhere. Let's not act like this is a scoop issue.
It’s definitely an issue elsewhere and far worse elsewhere. Peruse social media after a loss by any college team and it’s a cesspool of personal attacks on college athletes. It’s ugly out there. Just don’t see the benefit of it there or on message boards beyond fair criticisms. See: Alex Hornibrook
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Is it fair to say: Derrick is a bad shooter? Markus sometimes plays hero ball? Joey turned the ball over too much? What is a fair level of criticism? I generally try to stay objective and calm in my analyses, but sometimes a player is playing lousy. I almost never say a player sucks or he should never see the court again or anything that senseless and stupid. I said that sometimes Theo tried to block everything, leaving himself out of position for rebounds. Fair or unfair?
I guess I am asking you to more clearly define your terms.
Player performance should be scrutinized and criticized, such as the examples you give. Calling someone a cancer or quitters or name calling in general is in poor taste.
I think Uncle Rico's comment is fair, and I would think that it encompasses Tower's example of saying a player "sucks." I think one key point in this is to remember that every single one of these players is really talented or they wouldn't even be there. So, criticisms on a bad performance like Tower mentioned are generally fair game -- although I still think should be tempered (e.g., "Player X was a total piece of s$%t last night" is needlessly harsh). In my opinion, criticisms focusing more on overall are more questionable (e.g., this player sucks; is a waste of a scholarship; should never see the floor again; etc.).
I know that we're all passionate. I know I've said things that are probably over the line that I'd like to walk back. But I also know that parents and the athletes themselves do read these boards (perhaps that's not a good idea), and I'm willing to govern myself a bit because of that.
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I agree. These are kids who have chosen to represent Marquette. And I know I would not want to be judged by decisions I made when I was 19. Kids drink, kids have sex. They always have. The sex needs to be consensual and don't drive after drinking. On the court, as in life, they are works in progress who are not perfect. They have impulses, egos, parents, evolving brains, and they are doing it all in the spotlight.
These are 100% LEGAL ADULTS (minus any anomalies like a 17 yo frosh Howard).
They will face far worse and harder criticism in the "real world." And the OP is correct, social media is FAR worse. Message boards are antiquated and like records (vinyl LPs) in the Tech world.
Stop coddling these ADULT MEN who play college basketball.
We lost a slow white guy with a good set jump shot who has aspirations (however lofty they may be) of playing in the NBA and he realized he wasn't gonna get the press or chance to impress in his final year when Howard was coming back.
This MAN decided it was in his best interest to go somewhere else to try to achieve his lofty dream. Best of luck to him.
His allegedly 5 Star ADULT brother who looked like he was nursing a hang over almost every game decided he wanted to do the same.
I doubt either make NBA careers but again, best of luck to them both.
BTW, people talking about too much press for Howard, not enough for Hausers. I sure remember seeing plenty of shots on TV of Hauser's parents being at every game and all the talk about how they traveled to watch their boys play. Makes you wonder how much parental influence played into this decision. Only "kids" would let that sort of thing happen.
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These are 100% LEGAL ADULTS (minus any anomalies like a 17 yo frosh Howard).
They will face far worse and harder criticism in the "real world." And the OP is correct, social media is FAR worse. Message boards are antiquated and like records (vinyl LPs) in the Tech world.
Stop coddling these ADULT MEN who play college basketball.
We lost a slow white guy with a good set jump shot who has aspirations (however lofty they may be) of playing in the NBA and he realized he wasn't gonna get the press or chance to impress in his final year when Howard was coming back.
This MAN decided it was in his best interest to go somewhere else to try to achieve his lofty dream. Best of luck to him.
His allegedly 5 Star ADULT brother who looked like he was nursing a hang over almost every game decided he wanted to do the same.
I doubt either make NBA careers but again, best of luck to them both.
BTW, people talking about too much press for Howard, not enough for Hausers. I sure remember seeing plenty of shots on TV of Hauser's parents being at every game and all the talk about how they traveled to watch their boys play. Makes you wonder how much parental influence played into this decision. Only "kids" would let that sort of thing happen.
Everything you've said here is wrong. Everyone is now dumber for having read this.
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I don't agree with muguru on much at all... but he is 100% correct. Any adult on here that rips a college kid over basketball.... well, there should be no need to say much about it.
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Everything you've said here is wrong. Everyone is now dumber for having read this.
EVERYTHING?!
What age do you think is considered an LEGAL ADULT in this country?
So everything I said is wrong, but the very first thing I wrote is completely true.
Should we go word by word, sentence by sentence or paragraph by paragraph?
Idiocracy!
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Right or wrong, I don't need a lecturing.
I'll do as I please. Hopefully that isn't bashing kids unnecessarily, but I'm not your parent and your not mine.
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Is it fair to say: Derrick is a bad shooter? Markus sometimes plays hero ball? Joey turned the ball over too much? What is a fair level of criticism? I generally try to stay objective and calm in my analyses, but sometimes a player is playing lousy. I almost never say a player sucks or he should never see the court again or anything that senseless and stupid. I said that sometimes Theo tried to block everything, leaving himself out of position for rebounds. Fair or unfair?
I guess I am asking you to more clearly define your terms.
Here is exactly where I am.
If I'm not allowed to say that Derrick/Jake might have been Marquette's worst starting backcourt ever (and it was Buzz's fault), or that the Hausers quit on their commitment, or that Morrow's shooting range appears to be 1 foot, why even bother going on a fan site?
If I say something really stoopid and/or over the top, like Sacar is the worst 2 in the BEast by far or Markus is a cancer, my fellow Scoopers will gladly call me on it.
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Here is exactly where I am.
If I'm not allowed to say that Derrick/Jake might have been Marquette's worst starting backcourt ever (and it was Buzz's fault), or that the Hausers quit on their commitment, or that Morrow's shooting range appears to be 1 foot, why even bother going on a fan site?
If I say something really stoopid and/or over the top, like Sacar is the worst 2 in the BEast by far or Markus is a cancer, my fellow Scoopers will gladly call me on it.
And wuuuuuuunnnnnn!
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Maybe “cancer” is too harsh.
How about:
Rather than spend another second playing on a team that includes Markus Howard, two of our best players...and highest profile Wisconsin kids...just pulled up stakes and bolted.
Is that too harsh or simply a statement of fact?
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EVERYTHING?!
What age do you think is considered an LEGAL ADULT in this country?
So everything I said is wrong, but the very first thing I wrote is completely true.
Should we go word by word, sentence by sentence or paragraph by paragraph?
Idiocracy!
Well, thats a bit up in the air, now isn't it.
You have to be 18 to vote, to be drafted, and to legally live on your own.
You have to be 19 to be drafted into the NBA.
You have to be 21 to drink, smoke (in like 50% of states), do weed, be drafted into the NFL.
You have to be 25 to have decent insurance.
You have to be 26 to reliably rent a car
You have to be 30 to be a senator or a governor.
You have to be 35 to become the president.
So it looks like theres a lot of different ages of adulthood hmm? Kids that are 18-22 that are playing for your basketball team for free should not be harrassed for decisions they make to play or not to play FOR FREE for your team. It is their lives.
But since you brought up the rest of your statement. Lets do it.
"They will face far worse and harder criticism in the "real world." And the OP is correct, social media is FAR worse. Message boards are antiquated and like records (vinyl LPs) in the Tech world."
No actually, not really. I haven't received any criticism like this in my life. 60 year old men calling me a quitter because I left my job for a higher paying one. Have you in your life ever left something for something better? Yes? Then you're a hypocrite and should stfu.
Stop coddling these ADULT MEN who play college basketball.
No one is coddling these YOUNG ADULTS who are not being paid. Again, you're an idiot.
We lost a slow white guy with a good set jump shot who has aspirations (however lofty they may be) of playing in the NBA and he realized he wasn't gonna get the press or chance to impress in his final year when Howard was coming back.
We lost our best overall player who has a very decent opportunity. Your whole press spiel is complete speculation.
This MAN decided it was in his best interest to go somewhere else to try to achieve his lofty dream. Best of luck to him.
Again, speculation. The only thing we know is Hauser didn't like the type of basketball being played, which is completely understandable.
His allegedly 5 Star ADULT brother who looked like he was nursing a hang over almost every game decided he wanted to do the same.
I doubt either make NBA careers but again, best of luck to them both.
They both have very high chances of NBA careers, in fact they were the two most likely on Marquette's roster (Besides a bunch of nonsense scoopers thinking Howard was somehow the second coming of Wade)
BTW, people talking about too much press for Howard, not enough for Hausers. I sure remember seeing plenty of shots on TV of Hauser's parents being at every game and all the talk about how they traveled to watch their boys play. Makes you wonder how much parental influence played into this decision. Only "kids" would let that sort of thing happen.
Howard received much more press. God forbid a parent goes to watch their sons play basketball at a high level. And only kids allow their parents for advice, I'll remember that next time I ask my Dad with 40 years of experience in the business world. Since I am an adult and should make a decision without looking for information.
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Here is exactly where I am.
If I'm not allowed to say that Derrick/Jake might have been Marquette's worst starting backcourt ever (and it was Buzz's fault), or that the Hausers quit on their commitment, or that Morrow's shooting range appears to be 1 foot, why even bother going on a fan site?
If I say something really stoopid and/or over the top, like Sacar is the worst 2 in the BEast by far or Markus is a cancer, my fellow Scoopers will gladly call me on it.
Mu82 has got it. I can say that Derrick might have possibly had the worst jumper I've ever seen. Or that Markus has hurt us with his shot selection. Or that a lot of scoopers get hard on's when Howard takes a bad shot and it goes in.
It's a very simple line one cannot cross.
What I cannot say is that Markus is the worst person in the world for taking those shots, that he should die a horrible death of anal cancer and I hope everything in his life goes wrong OR that the Hausers are immature and terrible and SLOW (Like what? Why does this keep coming up) because they decided to leave a basketball program.
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Maybe “cancer” is too harsh.
How about:
Rather than spend another second playing on a team that includes Markus Howard, two of our best players...and highest profile Wisconsin kids...just pulled up stakes and bolted.
Is that too harsh or simply a statement of fact?
Although we still don't know if they left because of Markus or because Wojo wouldn't harness Markus, that statement seems fair.
And yes, "cancer" is too harsh. In my opinion.
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If you have an issue with a particular post, the best thing to do is call it out directly. I haven't read everything about this but haven't seen anything that I would consider completely offensive or inappropriate. It is absolutely fair to critique the players, both their game and their decisions. The Hausers knew that they were doing something unusual and drastic that would be deeply upsetting to a lot of people. If criticism of players bothers you, probably better for you stay away from sports message boards and maybe sports in general.
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Well, thats a bit up in the air, now isn't it.
You have to be 18 to vote, to be drafted, and to legally live on your own.
You have to be 19 to be drafted into the NBA.
You have to be 21 to drink, smoke (in like 50% of states), do weed, be drafted into the NFL.
You have to be 25 to have decent insurance.
You have to be 26 to reliably rent a car
You have to be 30 to be a senator or a governor.
You have to be 35 to become the president.
So it looks like theres a lot of different ages of adulthood hmm? Kids that are 18-22 that are playing for your basketball team for free should not be harrassed for decisions they make to play or not to play FOR FREE for your team. It is their lives.
But since you brought up the rest of your statement. Lets do it.
You are considered a LEGAL ADULT in the United States of America at age 18. You look foolish not acknowledging this. It is common knowledge and factually correct in every single state of our Democratic Republic.
"They will face far worse and harder criticism in the "real world." And the OP is correct, social media is FAR worse. Message boards are antiquated and like records (vinyl LPs) in the Tech world."
No actually, not really. I haven't received any criticism like this in my life. 60 year old men calling me a quitter because I left my job for a higher paying one. Have you in your life ever left something for something better? Yes? Then you're a hypocrite and should stfu.
You must be over 50 and unfamiliar with social media and technology. A board like this is 50 years old in the tech world. Jump on Twitter sometime and have a look see
Stop coddling these ADULT MEN who play college basketball.
No one is coddling these YOUNG ADULTS who are not being paid. Again, you're an idiot.
Calling LEGAL ADULT MEN "kids" and acting like they can't think for themselves is a form of coddling.
We lost a slow white guy with a good set jump shot who has aspirations (however lofty they may be) of playing in the NBA and he realized he wasn't gonna get the press or chance to impress in his final year when Howard was coming back.
We lost our best overall player who has a very decent opportunity. Your whole press spiel is complete speculation.
My whole spiel is very clearly my opinion. I'm unsure how you missed that.
This MAN decided it was in his best interest to go somewhere else to try to achieve his lofty dream. Best of luck to him.
Again, speculation. The only thing we know is Hauser didn't like the type of basketball being played, which is completely understandable.
His allegedly 5 Star ADULT brother who looked like he was nursing a hang over almost every game decided he wanted to do the same.
Again, very clearly my opinion covered by the 1st Amendment.
I doubt either make NBA careers but again, best of luck to them both.
They both have very high chances of NBA careers, in fact they were the two most likely on Marquette's roster (Besides a bunch of nonsense scoopers thinking Howard was somehow the second coming of Wade)
I respect your opinion on this. It saddens me that you do not respect mine and have to resort to name calling and berating. One of us will be correct and neither of us will receive any benefit for being right. Please accept my advanced congratulations if you are right.
BTW, people talking about too much press for Howard, not enough for Hausers. I sure remember seeing plenty of shots on TV of Hauser's parents being at every game and all the talk about how they traveled to watch their boys play. Makes you wonder how much parental influence played into this decision. Only "kids" would let that sort of thing happen.
Howard received much more press. God forbid a parent goes to watch their sons play basketball at a high level. And only kids allow their parents for advice, I'll remember that next time I ask my Dad with 40 years of experience in the business world. Since I am an adult and should make a decision without looking for information.
I agree. Howard did receive more. He was a National Player of the Year candidate. I'm happy that the Hauser family is well off enough and have enough free time to watch their boys play. Parental advice is great, I certainly didn't say not to take it or ask for it; but grown men take the advice and make their own decisions. I hope that's what happened here and am merely speculating about how involved or non-involved the parents may or may not be.
I hope in the future you read other posters posts more carefully, do not resort to insults and respect other's opinions. If you have a differing opinion you could certainly express it more respectfully.
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Is it fair to say: Derrick is a bad shooter? Markus sometimes plays hero ball? Joey turned the ball over too much? What is a fair level of criticism? I generally try to stay objective and calm in my analyses, but sometimes a player is playing lousy. I almost never say a player sucks or he should never see the court again or anything that senseless and stupid. I said that sometimes Theo tried to block everything, leaving himself out of position for rebounds. Fair or unfair?
I guess I am asking you to more clearly define your terms.
The things you list above "Derrick is a bad shooter" etc, to me aren't crossing a line and are fine. What pisses me off is when people throw words around like I have seen directed at Sam/Joey this week..."quitters", "soft" "hairy wet cats" etc. Absolutely inexcusable. Things like "he sucks" etc, are also out of line. No one player should be blamed for losing a game either..it's a TEAM game. I also don't like all the attacks I have seen hurled at Markus either. He did NOT cause the Hauser's to transfer.
Put yourself in Markus's shoes right now..let's hypothetically say he had no knowledge of this letter to Wojo about his style of play. Well, he certainly knows about it now..It's bad enough that i am sure he has heard from classmates and everyone else under the sun, that HE caused the Hauser's to transfer. He's a 20 year old kid..would you like to carry that burden on your shoulders?? I sure as hell wouldn't. That is completely unfair to him. Quite honestly, he needs his teammates and close friends as much as possible right now...I can't even imagine what his mindset is like and to me, that's a little bit unsettling.
This is what wrankles me the most about the whole situation, because Wojo doesn't have Twitter anymore, because he will NEVER have to answer any questions about this, because the general public that doesn't really know what went on...they hear "Markus caused them to transfer" (which couldn't be further from the truth), and they run with it. Anger turns to Markus etc. So in reality, Markus ends up taking the bullet for this completely unfairly, because Wojo never has to face the music for it. Completely unfair to the kid if you ask me.
Show a little compassion people, walk in Markus's shoes right now..
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I have never heard anyone speak an ill word about the Hauser parents...I have also never heard anyone speak an ill word about the Hauser boys until they decided to transfer.
I'm sure Wojo sold them on being part of a team...you hear him with the coach speak all the time. Markus didnt play team ball...Wojo even alluded to it in an on court interview after a game. Thats on Wojo...and really Wojo isnt doing Markus any favors either, IMHO.
So if you preach team...you sell receuits on that belief...but dont hold your super star accountable to it...tell me who quit on who? I could be missing information...but the way it looks to me...Wojo quit on the team when he didnt live up to what he sold/preeched to his players. Sam and Joey dont strike me as the type of kids that would quit a team because they arent the first option. They do strike me as the type of kids that would walk if they feel they were sold a load of BS.
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The things you list above "Derrick is a bad shooter" etc, to me aren't crossing a line and are fine. What pisses me off is when people throw words around like I have seen directed at Sam/Joey this week..."quitters", "soft" "hairy wet cats" etc. Absolutely inexcusable. Things like "he sucks" etc, are also out of line. No one player should be blamed for losing a game either..it's a TEAM game. I also don't like all the attacks I have seen hurled at Markus either. He did NOT cause the Hauser's to transfer.
Put yourself in Markus's shoes right now..let's hypothetically say he had no knowledge of this letter to Wojo about his style of play. Well, he certainly knows about it now..It's bad enough that i am sure he has heard from classmates and everyone else under the sun, that HE caused the Hauser's to transfer. He's a 20 year old kid..would you like to carry that burden on your shoulders?? I sure as hell wouldn't. That is completely unfair to him. Quite honestly, he needs his teammates and close friends as much as possible right now...I can't even imagine what his mindset is like and to me, that's a little bit unsettling.
This is what wrankles me the most about the whole situation, because Wojo doesn't have Twitter anymore, because he will NEVER have to answer any questions about this, because the general public that doesn't really know what went on...they hear "Markus caused them to transfer" (which couldn't be further from the truth), and they run with it. Anger turns to Markus etc. So in reality, Markus ends up taking the bullet for this completely unfairly, because Wojo never has to face the music for it. Completely unfair to the kid if you ask me.
Show a little compassion people, walk in Markus's shoes right now..
Good post, guru.
Minor quibble: By any definition, Sam and Joey quit Marquette basketball and therefore are quitters. I know it has a negative connotation that goes above and beyond just quitting -- that somehow they are gutless or soft or whatever -- and I don't cotton to that. But they are quitters.
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The things you list above "Derrick is a bad shooter" etc, to me aren't crossing a line and are fine. What pisses me off is when people throw words around like I have seen directed at Sam/Joey this week..."quitters", "soft" "hairy wet cats" etc. Absolutely inexcusable. Things like "he sucks" etc, are also out of line. No one player should be blamed for losing a game either..it's a TEAM game. I also don't like all the attacks I have seen hurled at Markus either. He did NOT cause the Hauser's to transfer.
Put yourself in Markus's shoes right now..let's hypothetically say he had no knowledge of this letter to Wojo about his style of play. Well, he certainly knows about it now..It's bad enough that i am sure he has heard from classmates and everyone else under the sun, that HE caused the Hauser's to transfer. He's a 20 year old kid..would you like to carry that burden on your shoulders?? I sure as hell wouldn't. That is completely unfair to him. Quite honestly, he needs his teammates and close friends as much as possible right now...I can't even imagine what his mindset is like and to me, that's a little bit unsettling.
This is what wrankles me the most about the whole situation, because Wojo doesn't have Twitter anymore, because he will NEVER have to answer any questions about this, because the general public that doesn't really know what went on...they hear "Markus caused them to transfer" (which couldn't be further from the truth), and they run with it. Anger turns to Markus etc. So in reality, Markus ends up taking the bullet for this completely unfairly, because Wojo never has to face the music for it. Completely unfair to the kid if you ask me.
Show a little compassion people, walk in Markus's shoes right now..
Ya know, you're right, Markus shouldn't have to take that bullet, Wojo should address this whole fiasco with some meaningful dialogue.
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I have never heard anyone speak an ill word about the Hauser parents...I have also never heard anyone speak an ill word about the Hauser boys until they decided to transfer.
I'm sure Wojo sold them on being part of a team...you hear him with the coach speak all the time. Markus didnt play team ball...Wojo even alluded to it in an on court interview after a game. Thats on Wojo...and really Wojo isnt doing Markus any favors either, IMHO.
So if you preach team...you sell receuits on that belief...but dont hold your super star accountable to it...tell me who quit on who? I could be missing information...but the way it looks to me...Wojo quit on the team when he didnt live up to what he sold/preeched to his players. Sam and Joey dont strike me as the type of kids that would quit a team because they arent the first option. They do strike me as the type of kids that would walk if they feel they were sold a load of BS.
Everyone here needs to read the bolded part over and over and over again, because you my friend, just won this thread. Imagine how you would feel if you were promised on more than one occasion that things were going to change, only to have them stay the same every time. Now...I'm pretty sure anyone of us in that situation would feel like we were being lied to or misled. So, based on that, why would we have any confidence what so ever that anything would be different going forward?? I sure wouldn't.
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Ya know, you're right, Markus shouldn't have to take that bullet, Wojo should address this whole fiasco with some meaningful dialogue.
Wojo won't though, and that's the problem...all people are hearing is "Markus made Sam/Joey leave". Can you imagine some of the things Markus has probably heard since Monday?? For someone that has to see a psychiatrist already, I hope he leans on him or her even more now, and I hope those truly close to Markus are there for him. He's got to feel the weight of the world is on his shoulders right now, and all because his Coach doesn't have to face the music the way Markus does.
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In general I believe that you shouldn't attack anybody regardless of who they are. I'm curious why only the players deserve that treatment? At what point is someone no longer deserving of that kind of respect?
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In general I believe that you should attack anybody regardless of who they are.
Screw you, you worthless piece of Buzz unflushables! What good have you ever done here. I've seen haikus that are more valuable that this post. Not sure why you haven't been banned yet.
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He's not wrong though
Yes he is.
Not everyone is saying silly things about the players.
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Yes he is.
Not everyone is saying silly things about the players.
Did he say everyone?
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Screw you, you worthless piece of Buzz unflushables! What good have you ever done here. I've seen haikus that are more valuable that this post. Not sure why you haven't been banned yet.
That's an unfortunate mistype on my part
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Did he say everyone?
He did:
"Character revealed indeed by all of you...frankly, it's flat out pathetic."
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fat finger typo
one more personal attack
there are no mistakes
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He did:
"Character revealed indeed by all of you...frankly, it's flat out pathetic."
By everyone that was hurling the insults etc...not every person here, because not everyone here was doing it. I didn't think It needed to be spelled out, was widely assumed it was easy to figure out who I was referring to by saying "all of you"...but...here we are.
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He did:
"Character revealed indeed by all of you...frankly, it's flat out pathetic."
I read "all of you" as "all of you I described in my earlier paragraphs"
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Is it OK to criticize other teams' players?
Can we rip on Nutgrabber McDouchenozzle? Kelly Tri-PUKE-a? Dirty Myles Powell? Or just some guys who might not even be dirty but who get on our nerves. Ponds, for example?
Is that allowed?
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These are 100% LEGAL ADULTS (minus any anomalies like a 17 yo frosh Howard).
They will face far worse and harder criticism in the "real world." And the OP is correct, social media is FAR worse. Message boards are antiquated and like records (vinyl LPs) in the Tech world.
Stop coddling these ADULT MEN who play college basketball.
We lost a slow white guy with a good set jump shot who has aspirations (however lofty they may be) of playing in the NBA and he realized he wasn't gonna get the press or chance to impress in his final year when Howard was coming back.
This MAN decided it was in his best interest to go somewhere else to try to achieve his lofty dream. Best of luck to him.
His allegedly 5 Star ADULT brother who looked like he was nursing a hang over almost every game decided he wanted to do the same.
I doubt either make NBA careers but again, best of luck to them both.
BTW, people talking about too much press for Howard, not enough for Hausers. I sure remember seeing plenty of shots on TV of Hauser's parents being at every game and all the talk about how they traveled to watch their boys play. Makes you wonder how much parental influence played into this decision. Only "kids" would let that sort of thing happen.
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I know.
Truth and facts hurt in this snowflake, PC time that we're currently living in.
Sorry, not sorry that I triggered you and violated your safe space that is MU Scoop!
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I read "all of you" as "all of you I described in my earlier paragraphs"
No, Tex, you read it as, "y'all" as "All y'all sorry asses I was fixin' to lit out and tump y'all for bad mouthin tuh players. Y'all jus a buncha damn fools"
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Yeah I started a new thread...I don't give a unnatural carnal knowledge...The amount of criticism I see levied here against Markus, Joey, Sam and other players is beyond despicable. It's things like this that Scoop has the poor reputation that it does. For those of us that are parents, imagine coming here and seeing some of the things being said about YOUR kids in a public open, forum. Worse yet, imagine being one of the players and reading what is being said about you...these are your supposed fans, alumni, people that you THOUGHT supported you, and you have to read the sh*t being posted about you here.
I don't know what's worse, those that run their mouths and bad mouth these kids, or the moderators here that allow it. These are college kids...adults yes, but that does NOT make it okay. You wanna criticize the staff, administration etc, by all means go right ahead. And I'd guarantee you they would say the EXACT same thing. They do read these boards and are stunned at some of the things they read.
So go ahead...you wanna take out your anger, frustrations whatever it is...tell ya what, do it on me, beat me up, call me any name you want, rip my posts, my character, whatever you want. I'm an adult, I can handle it, and frankly I don't give a damn what any of you think of me. But i do give a damn what you say about the players. that is NEVER acceptable.
If the mods want to ban me for speaking my mind and calling them out, I could care less...but they are responsible for allowing that kind of sh*t here.
Character revealed indeed by all of you...frankly, it's flat out pathetic.
You are correct, and in response I will apologize for the criticism of Joey. He did have a poor last 2 months, but I should have put in context that the big jump most players make is between their freshman and sophomore seasons and he certainly should join Sam as a true star wherever they go.
I should have just focused on the positive side - which was that after Joey hit the wall those last could of months, Bailey really came out of nowhere and was an excellent player and really should have been a starter and I'm glad he looks like he will be next year.
Best of luck to Sam and Joey and thanks for some great memories - but obviously even more kudos to everyone who will get more.minutes next year.
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You are correct, and in response I will apologize for the criticism of Joey. He did have a poor last 2 months, but I should have put in context that the big jump most players make is between their freshman and sophomore seasons and he certainly should join Sam as a true star wherever they go.
I should have just focused on the positive side - which was that after Joey hit the wall those last could of months, Bailey really came out of nowhere and was an excellent player and really should have been a starter and I'm glad he looks like he will be next year.
Best of luck to Sam and Joey and thanks for some great memories - but obviously even more kudos to everyone who will get more.minutes next year.
Don’t apologize auburnMarquette...you are a professional....it’s your job to critique players. Some of the people here shaking their head at “name calling” don’t hesitate to do the same thing when it fits their narrative. Wolves in sheep’s clothing. You have always been informative and respectful.
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Yeah I started a new thread...I don't give a unnatural carnal knowledge...The amount of criticism I see levied here against Markus, Joey, Sam and other players is beyond despicable. It's things like this that Scoop has the poor reputation that it does. For those of us that are parents, imagine coming here and seeing some of the things being said about YOUR kids in a public open, forum. Worse yet, imagine being one of the players and reading what is being said about you...these are your supposed fans, alumni, people that you THOUGHT supported you, and you have to read the sh*t being posted about you here.
I don't know what's worse, those that run their mouths and bad mouth these kids, or the moderators here that allow it. These are college kids...adults yes, but that does NOT make it okay. You wanna criticize the staff, administration etc, by all means go right ahead. And I'd guarantee you they would say the EXACT same thing. They do read these boards and are stunned at some of the things they read.
So go ahead...you wanna take out your anger, frustrations whatever it is...tell ya what, do it on me, beat me up, call me any name you want, rip my posts, my character, whatever you want. I'm an adult, I can handle it, and frankly I don't give a damn what any of you think of me. But i do give a damn what you say about the players. that is NEVER acceptable.
If the mods want to ban me for speaking my mind and calling them out, I could care less...but they are responsible for allowing that kind of sh*t here.
Character revealed indeed by all of you...frankly, it's flat out pathetic.
Wow!! Just wow!! Character revealed? Really? Coming from you!! You revealed your character a long time ago and I am going to let you in on something that I don't think you realize; your character is not good. You can rip on our coach over and over again and you think it is okay because he is older and makes a lot of money, but college players are off limits? Why do you get to decide who it is okay to be a jerk to? Personally I try not to be overly critical of anyone that I know is working hard and doing their best, even if they are not perfect, which includes players on the team and the coaching staff. I am not someone who thinks Wojo can do no wrong and he certainly can improve as a coach, but from everything I have seen and heard from people around the program is that he works extremely hard and is a good person. His coaching will improve and has improved since he started here. I promise you that coaching is much more difficult than you will ever fully understand and you cannot make informed judgments on every single decision that is made within a program when you are not at every practice, team meeting or recruiting visit. In your case, it is amazing to me how very little you seem to know or understand about the game of basketball and how to coach it, but yet based on your posts, you seem to think you know more than the majority of the posters and the coaching staff.
There is one reason and one reason alone that you do not want the players criticized on here; because you think it may hinder our ability to recruit other players. You have shown me nothing that would indicate you actually care about the players outside of how they can make you look good when Marquette basketball wins.
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MU 1980
You heard Wojo works very extremely hard from folks near the program? Now, is that extremely hard compared to the folks near the program or other D1 coaches? Very interested in your reply.
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MU 1980
You heard Wojo works very extremely hard from folks near the program? Now, is that extremely hard compared to the folks near the program or other D1 coaches? Very interested in your reply.
I am not quite sure of your question and I do not have some great insider knowledge about MU basketball, but anything I have ever heard about Wojo from people within the athletic department, has been positive. Maybe other people within the athletic department think differently, I have no idea. Does he work harder than Coach K, or Greg Gard or Bo Ryan or the Marquette tennis or soccer coach? I have zero clue and would not want to venture a guess.
My main point to MUGuru was not whether Wojo should be criticized or not (although I think several posters do go over the top with the criticism); I just thought it was hypocritical of him to call out people for being critical of players and that he has decided who it is okay to be critical of and who is off limits
Like everyone else, I was very frustrated with the way the season ended and even more so with the Hausers transferring and I think what happens in these next few months and next season are crucial for Coach Wojo to show us whether he is the right person for the job. Personally I am rooting for him to show us that he is because coaches with good Character seem to be few and far between.
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MU 1980
Thanks for reply. I was seriously interested in your answer, because I was under the impression that he was not one of those hard driving workers, like many other coaches. Very happy to hear that Wojo cranks it out and does not pan off his heavy lifting to assistances.
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Do players count as those within the athletic dept?
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I have no doubt Wojo works hard. Whether he is good at his job or not is another question
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MU 1980
Thanks for reply. I was seriously interested in your answer, because I was under the impression that he was not one of those hard driving workers, like many other coaches. Very happy to hear that Wojo cranks it out and does not pan off his heavy lifting to assistances.
Goose, you could be more correct than me on his work ethic, I have no idea. I am not an insider and do not know any players, I just have a few friends that work in athletics. I do not like to listen to rumors on MUScoop since so many turn out to not be true, but if I knew for certain he had a bad work ethic that would change my opinion of him quite a bit. If you are a division 1 college coach and are making millions, a good work ethic should be a given. For now I will continue to believe what I have heard and support him until something besides an internet rumor changes my mind.
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MU 1980
Thanks for reply. I was seriously interested in your answer, because I was under the impression that he was not one of those hard driving workers, like many other coaches. Very happy to hear that Wojo cranks it out and does not pan off his heavy lifting to assistances.
Can I ask what your impression is based on?
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So that's going to be the newest narrative? That Wojo doesn't work hard like other coaches?
What next?
I heard he has worse breath than 64.4% of other D1 coaches. His deodorant usage ranks behind 52.2% of his peers. And don't get me started about his athlete's foot problems!!!
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Everyone here needs to read the bolded part over and over and over again, because you my friend, just won this thread. Imagine how you would feel if you were promised on more than one occasion that things were going to change, only to have them stay the same every time. Now...I'm pretty sure anyone of us in that situation would feel like we were being lied to or misled. So, based on that, why would we have any confidence what so ever that anything would be different going forward?? I sure wouldn't.
What exactly was promised?
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MU 82
Ok. I was told recently by someone that much of the heavy lifting is done by the assistants. I reached out to a younger poster on here, that I believe knows his stuff, and was curious 1980 stated Wojo was a hard worker.
Al was far from hard worker, so I could not care less. I believe much of the hard working crew are doing it for affect. Was not a narrative, simply a question.
For some reason, I thought this site was to get different opinions, share thoughts and discuss the program.
Actually quite funny, you feel it is ok to criticize players, but are coached off limits? You love to stir the pot, even when a legit question was raised.
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MU 82
Ok. I was told recently by someone that much of the heavy lifting is done by the assistants. I reached out to a younger poster on here, that I believe knows his stuff, and was curious 1980 stated Wojo was a hard worker.
Al was far from hard worker, so I could not care less. I believe much of the hard working crew are doing it for affect. Was not a narrative, simply a question.
For some reason, I thought this site was to get different opinions, share thoughts and discuss the program.
Actually quite funny, you feel it is ok to criticize players, but are coached off limits? You love to stir the pot, even when a legit question was raised.
First, I have never, ever, ever said -- nor have I ever suggested or implied -- that coaches are off-limits. Indeed, I have been extremely critical of Wojo the last week.
You claimed you could tell whenever a fellow Scooper has been drinking. All I'll say is step away from the Chinese beer, my friend.
As for "criticizing" players ... as has been discussed ad nauseum already in this thread, I think it is OK to say something like, "Joey can't defend anybody" or "Derrick can't shoot." Those are facts. What I don't think is OK is to say something like, "Vander is an a-hole" or "Markus is a cancer." You are free to agree or disagree with that distinction; I really don't care if it gets your approval.
And of course, it's OK to rip opposing players. That's practically a fan's job.
As for whether Wojo is a hard-worker ... all I know from spending four decades getting to know coaches pretty well is that the vast, vast, vast majority of them are extremely hard workers. If you have gotten to be the head coach at the D1 level, you almost surely got there by developing incredible work habits. If Al were a D1 head coach today, and he weren't a very hard worker, he'd get eaten alive. You can't coast through being a D1 basketball coach any more, not if you want to be more than a short-timer, anyway.
But somebody told somebody who told you that Wojo might be the rare D1 coach who isn't a hard worker, so sure. Have another one, Goose.
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MU 82
Safely home enjoying a beautiful Easter evening with my wife. Life is good and thankful for all God means in our lives.
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MU 82
Safely home enjoying a beautiful Easter evening with my wife. Life is good and thankful for all God means in our lives.
Glad you got home safely. Have a nice night.
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Can we rip on Nutgrabber McDouchenozzle?
Please, it's Floppy McDickpuncher. Garbling his name as you have done is disrespectful to Floppy.
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If the Hausers choose Wisconsin, is it fair to rip on them then?
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I have never heard anyone speak an ill word about the Hauser parents...I have also never heard anyone speak an ill word about the Hauser boys until they decided to transfer.
I'm sure Wojo sold them on being part of a team...you hear him with the coach speak all the time. Markus didnt play team ball...Wojo even alluded to it in an on court interview after a game. Thats on Wojo...and really Wojo isnt doing Markus any favors either, IMHO.
So if you preach team...you sell receuits on that belief...but dont hold your super star accountable to it...tell me who quit on who? I could be missing information...but the way it looks to me...Wojo quit on the team when he didnt live up to what he sold/preeched to his players. Sam and Joey dont strike me as the type of kids that would quit a team because they arent the first option. They do strike me as the type of kids that would walk if they feel they were sold a load of BS.
Hmmmmm.........
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If the Hausers choose Wisconsin, is it fair to rip on them then?
Yes.
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If the Hausers choose Wisconsin, is it fair to rip take pity on them then?
Fixed and yes
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Is it fair to say: Derrick is a bad shooter? Markus sometimes plays hero ball? Joey turned the ball over too much? What is a fair level of criticism? I generally try to stay objective and calm in my analyses, but sometimes a player is playing lousy. I almost never say a player sucks or he should never see the court again or anything that senseless and stupid. I said that sometimes Theo tried to block everything, leaving himself out of position for rebounds. Fair or unfair?
I guess I am asking you to more clearly define your terms.
My standard is to rip the coaches when necessary . However, the kids should only be referred to in positive ways or defended when coaches treat them unfairly. Otherwise say nothing.
If a kid is not playing well it is better to just let their performance speak for itself . First , they are trying their best and their demands are heavy. Second, we don’t know the inner workings of the coaches strategies and my experience is many times the coaches put kids in positions they cannot succeed
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Yeah I started a new thread...I don't give a unnatural carnal knowledge...The amount of criticism I see levied here against Markus, Joey, Sam and other players is beyond despicable. It's things like this that Scoop has the poor reputation that it does. For those of us that are parents, imagine coming here and seeing some of the things being said about YOUR kids in a public open, forum. Worse yet, imagine being one of the players and reading what is being said about you...these are your supposed fans, alumni, people that you THOUGHT supported you, and you have to read the sh*t being posted about you here.
I don't know what's worse, those that run their mouths and bad mouth these kids, or the moderators here that allow it. These are college kids...adults yes, but that does NOT make it okay. You wanna criticize the staff, administration etc, by all means go right ahead. And I'd guarantee you they would say the EXACT same thing. They do read these boards and are stunned at some of the things they read.
So go ahead...you wanna take out your anger, frustrations whatever it is...tell ya what, do it on me, beat me up, call me any name you want, rip my posts, my character, whatever you want. I'm an adult, I can handle it, and frankly I don't give a damn what any of you think of me. But i do give a damn what you say about the players. that is NEVER acceptable.
If the mods want to ban me for speaking my mind and calling them out, I could care less...but they are responsible for allowing that kind of sh*t here.
Character revealed indeed by all of you...frankly, it's flat out pathetic.
Now, by your standards, aren't you saying that the players are mediocre? That is criticism, right?
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ND sucks
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ND sucks
Bigly like many here
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https://twitter.com/big_smooth10/status/1125418595872399361?s=21 (https://twitter.com/big_smooth10/status/1125418595872399361?s=21)
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https://twitter.com/big_smooth10/status/1125418595872399361?s=21 (https://twitter.com/big_smooth10/status/1125418595872399361?s=21)
he's put himself in a position where he's likely going to the main rival of the school he was at. If you're going to do something like that then deal with the criticism. He's not going to make it as a pro being so sensitive.
That said, I don't partake in that foray
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https://twitter.com/big_smooth10/status/1125418595872399361?s=21 (https://twitter.com/big_smooth10/status/1125418595872399361?s=21)
"It's crazy how much power social media gives people. Now, please allow me to use the power of social media to make a point."
(That said, please don't be a dick to players - current, former or potential - via social media)
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he's put himself in a position where he's likely going to the main rival of the school he was at. If you're going to do something like that then deal with the criticism. He's not going to make it as a pro being so sensitive.
My guess is it’s in reply to people lighting up Joey’s Instagram account on Friday. I’m all for people having opinions, but why people act like jackasses on kids social media accounts is beyond me. You want to voice your opinion or criticize them, there are plenty of places to do it other than their social media accounts.
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(That said, please don't be a dick to players - current, former or potential - via social media)
Or rip on said players GF when she posts an anniversary picture :-[
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https://twitter.com/big_smooth10/status/1125418595872399361?s=21 (https://twitter.com/big_smooth10/status/1125418595872399361?s=21)
Thanks for sharing this.
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https://twitter.com/big_smooth10/status/1125418595872399361?s=21 (https://twitter.com/big_smooth10/status/1125418595872399361?s=21)
The irony in this is that no fanbase turns on potential recruits faster than Wisconsin does. That said, no one should be disparaging the Hausers on social media because of their decision.
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That said, please don't be a dick to players - current, former or potential - via social media
I'd like to think that the various modifiers are unnecessary, but I'm aware that is hopelessly naive.