MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: brewcity77 on March 15, 2019, 11:11:04 PM
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Powell ejected, then unejected, then didn't get called when he fouled Howard on a three. Worst ref show I've ever seen in my life. Kicking out our two best defenders decided it. Big East wanted Seton Hall in the final.
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Yes. And Howard was fouled on the last shot, too.
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Powell ejected, then unejected, then didn't get called when he fouled Howard on a three. Worst ref show I've ever seen in my life. Kicking out our two best defenders decided it. Big East wanted Seton Hall in the final.
Willard runs a goon factory. What a trash game. Bad refs. Would have let a Marquette player get stabbed on the floor with indifference.
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Powell ejected, then unejected, then didn't get called when he fouled Howard on a three. Worst ref show I've ever seen in my life. Kicking out our two best defenders decided it. Big East wanted Seton Hall in the final.
Take the blue and gold goggles off, bro. Hanging on the rim for a T? Skipping upcourt is a T?
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Yes.
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Refs were brutal, but......
Their Star was better than ours - by a mile.
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Don’t forget the two unwarranted free throws at the end of the first half.
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If any announcer doesn't call out the BS of Theo being ejected, I will have no respect for them again
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Their star should have been ejected.
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Powell is a punk. Ridiculous refs.
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We still could have and should have won if we hit shots and FTs. And Howard, you’re not an end of game shooter. Know your damn role and trust your teammates when it matters most
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Take the blue and gold goggles off, bro. Hanging on the rim for a T? Skipping upcourt is a T?
That was a shot at evening it up. But you already removed 2 of our starters and let their thug star stay in. Too late to course correct.
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best to rest up for the real tournament. Hopefully better refs in our next game
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The McKnight one was obviously a make up call. Officiating was bad on both sides and made the game almost unwatchable.
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refs were bad. MU choked. Their game. Passed out. Period.
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Marcus wrist is hurting more then everyone is letting on.
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Take the blue and gold goggles off, bro. Hanging on the rim for a T? Skipping upcourt is a T?
Yep. Brutal calls both ways.
Same problems appearing in crunch time. Markus struggling, no other shot creators, no rebounding, getting beat to every 50-50 ball.
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Take the blue and gold goggles off, bro. Hanging on the rim for a T? Skipping upcourt is a T?
The hanging on the rim and trying to grab the ball is an automatic T. I know it looks weak, but it is an automatic call. Kind of like an automatic flagrant 2 when someone winds up and delivers an elbow to a players chest.
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Take the blue and gold goggles off, bro. Hanging on the rim for a T? Skipping upcourt is a T?
The tech in McKnight was ridiculous, he didn’t even look at the refs.
Honestly the worst officiated game I’ve seen in a long time, not necessarily against MU just terrible on both sides. His is tournament basketball, let the boys play.
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Refs were brutal, but......
Their Star was better than ours - by a mile.
True, but their star played when our defenders couldn’t. Completely changed the game.
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powell made plays. howard choked again. howard put up big numbers in blowouts but we found out the real big east poy tonight
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I don’t usually blame refs. But they were horrific tonight.
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Jim burr would have been the best ref out of this bunch.
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Losers blame the refs. Great effort by the guys.
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Refs were brutal, but......
Their Star was better than ours - by a mile.
Yeah, because their star no longer had our best defensive player shutting him down...he was in the locker room. Funny how when Anim was playing him, Powell was doing nothing
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Did he just say class act by Seton Hall? Seriously?
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Powell is a punk. Ridiculous refs.
Maybe...but he passes the ball...wish our guy did that. Kills me to see Sam standing wide open with 2 seconds left and markus refusing to do what Powell just showed him how to do.
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Marcus wrist is hurting more then everyone is letting on.
If true then don’t play. You’re hurting your team. And also if true how the hell do you selfishly take the last shot?
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Marcus wrist is hurting more then everyone is letting on.
Been saying it since it happened and been ridiculed ever since. Yes, he's hurt and hasn't played to his level since, but people want to ignore it.
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That was a shot at evening it up. But you already removed 2 of our starters and let their thug star stay in. Too late to course correct.
I don’t like Powell as he is the star of a rival team but how exactly is he a thug?
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Yeah, because their star no longer had our best defensive player shutting him down...he was in the locker room. Funny how when Anim was playing him, Powell was doing nothing
Exactly. Powell should have been out on a F2 for the elbow. Dude doesnt get to talk a big game because it is clear he has no class
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Refs were brutal, but......
Their Star was better than ours - by a mile.
Their unnatural carnal knowledgein star should have been watching from the unnatural carnal knowledgeing locker room.
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Losers blame the refs. Great effort by the guys.
Did you think the refs called a good game?
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Yeah, because their star no longer had our best defensive player shutting him down...he was in the locker room. Funny how when Anim was playing him, Powell was doing nothing
Plus one was healthy and one wasn't
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I don’t like Powell as he is the star of a rival team but how exactly is he a thug?
How would you classify his elbow on Sacar? Great player, but classless.
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powell made plays. howard choked again. howard put up big numbers in blowouts but we found out the real big east poy tonight
The real BIG POY has the trophy to prove it and was UNANIMOUS....but you being a MU fan (which you are not) and generally just a complete asswipe, continue to bash on players. Absolutely pathetic. You don't watch Powell every game, so you have no idea if he is the "real" anything, but we do know you aren't a MU fan based on your posts. Sad. Terrible troll.
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Marcus wrist is hurting more then everyone is letting on.
Umm idk, maybe don’t take 15 shots and let Sam have a couple if it’s so hurt that it’s affecting your shot
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Of course losers blame the refs when the refs decide the game. Absolute crapfest.
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Losers blame the refs. Great effort by the guys.
That was the worst officiated game I have ever seen—both ways, but mostly hurt us. In the end, Powell, punk or not, carried them. MU had their chance to win it. Powell delivers in crunch time consistently.
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Goo
The refs were horrible. It was tough game and they played tough. I will take this loss over any other loss this season. They were tougher than I thought they could be.
Again, refs sucked. Hall has more studs, but our guys learned a ton tonight,
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Umm idk, maybe don’t take 15 shots and let Sam have a couple if it’s so hurt that it’s affecting your shot
Exactly. If he’s hurt to the degree that his shot is greatly affected then that was a selfish take at the end. Sam was looking right at him to get the ball. Oh, and Sams actually shown he can hit those in end of game situations
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Been saying it since it happened and been ridiculed ever since. Yes, he's hurt and hasn't played to his level since, but people want to ignore it.
Maybe...but he had sh1t games like this earlier in the year as well. Think about what this team would look like with Diener vs Howard...
Sam wide open at the end...
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Losers blame the refs. Great effort by the guys.
Tough conditions but one thing I'm sure of: When u go 29-41 from the line and get out rebounded by 8, it is definitely not a "great" effort.
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I don’t like Powell as he is the star of a rival team but how exactly is he a thug?
Thug, punk, use a word that suits your sensibilities. Willard deserves a lot of blame for creating a program of goons.
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Been saying it since it happened and been ridiculed ever since. Yes, he's hurt and hasn't played to his level since, but people want to ignore it.
My wrist got crunched in the autumn in a tractor mishap and it took like 3 months to feel better. It always felt better 3 days later but a small wrong twist would make it scream for two days.
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The reason we lost was again because Howard started taking shots away from Sam. In the first half MU went up 10 with Howard on the bench then at the 4 min mark he came back in and forced shots as he did the whole 2nd half. Exact same reason we lost to Hall 2 weeks ago.
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Goo
The refs were horrible. It was tough game and they played tough. I will take this loss over any other loss this season. They were tougher than I thought they could be.
Again, refs sucked. Hall has more studs, but our guys learned a ton tonight,
If the refs were horrible, then why does it make those of us who blame them “losers?”
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Tough conditions but one thing I'm sure of: When u go 29-41 from the line and get out rebounded by 8, it is definitely not a "great" effort.
Yeah I’m having a tough time seeing great effort. We wilted under pressure and we’re particularly soft on the glass. Cain’s “effort” to get to a huge rebound was far from effort. I’ve seen way more effort and toughness from this team this year
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Powell tried to go after Wojo after the game too. Kid should be suspended for tomorrow.
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Mutaman
Respectfully disagree. Hall has ball players, tough environment and the they had chance to win. I have been anti on progress of program, but this can be a serious building block.
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Powell tried to go after Wojo after the game too. Kid should be suspended for tomorrow.
Did you see it or see someone talk about it?
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Yeah I’m having a tough time seeing great effort. We wilted under pressure and we’re particularly soft on the glass. Cain’s “effort” to get to a huge rebound was far from effort. I’ve seen way more effort and toughness from this team this year
Hmm, was one of our best rebounders ejected from the game....could that have impacted rebounding?
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Powell tried to go after Wojo after the game too. Kid should be suspended for tomorrow.
I think he was a jerk several times during the game but I don't think that is what happened there
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Big east refs hate Marquette. I’m sorry. We’ve been getting absolutely robbed for weeks. Embarrassing reffing.
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Hmm, was one of our best rebounders ejected from the game....could that have impacted rebounding?
Yes that’s why Cain lacked hustle on a loose ball
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Mutaman
Respectfully disagree. Hall has ball players, tough environment and the they had chance to win. I have been anti on progress of program, but this can be a serious building block.
Agreed. Thought we played tough. Just didn’t execute at times.
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Free throws matter. Mindset matters. MU is soft. Nova hard. That team believes. Wojo’s team passed down its leg. Laughable
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Take the blue and gold goggles off, bro. Hanging on the rim for a T? Skipping upcourt is a T?
Yah, they tried to make up for a game they had completely botched. We didn’t take that opportunity. But that doesn’t change how horribly referred that game was. Powell should have been ejected after the elbow. But then he bum rushes and guy and doesn’t get ejected!?!! Like wtf.
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I think he was a jerk several times during the game but I don't think that is what happened there
Yeah I thought Powell was upset because he thought Wojo ignored him. I don’t think Wojo saw him. Looked like a misunderstanding to me.
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So are Theo John and Sacar suspended now for our first round game?
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Big east refs hate Marquette. I’m sorry. We’ve been getting absolutely robbed for weeks. Embarrassing reffing.
Cogent observation. Wojo made a subtle comment in the presser that it would be good to get away and play somewhere else.
Big East officiating needs a rebuild.
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Jim burr would have been the best ref out of this bunch.
Wow.
And amen.
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Yes that’s why Cain lacked hustle on a loose ball
Watch again, it had nothing to do with hustle, he crashed in and didn't recover quickly enough to the outside.
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Matt Norlander
@MattNorlander
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2m
Big East officials are breaking protocol and are not allowing media near the locker room. Marquette officials making their case to Big East officials and they want media out of earshot.
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Cogent observation. Wojo made a subtle comment in the presser that it would be good to get away and play somewhere else.
He meant play a different opponent. Outside the BE. That wasn’t about the refs.
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Did you see it or see someone talk about it?
He did. Wojo didn't see him come back to try to shake his hand. Powell took offense to it and came at Wojo.
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Matt Norlander
@MattNorlander
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2m
Big East officials are breaking protocol and are not allowing media near the locker room. Marquette officials making their case to Big East officials and they want media out of earshot.
Are the Big East officials putting a little extra in the referees' paycheck? The BET got the final they wanted.
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He did. Wojo didn't see him come back to try to shake his hand. Powell took offense to it and came at Wojo.
Never loved Wojo as much as tonight.
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Can anyone explain to me why Theo got a flagrant 2 but Powell only got a flagrant 1?
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Marcus wrist is hurting more then everyone is letting on.
This when he went out right by the locker rooms when touched he was in massive pain, you could tell it is bothering him by his ft misses
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He meant play a different opponent. Outside the BE. That wasn’t about the refs.
Disagree. I think that was definitely about the refs, but he was being very careful to not directly refer to them.
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Is 6-7 days enough for the wrist to heal?
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So are Theo John and Sacar suspended now for our first round game?
I think Theo could be for a direct flagrant 2, but I have to imagine the NCAA will look at the tape, go “lol” and let him play.
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Is 6-7 days enough for the wrist to heal?
No
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Disagree. I think that was definitely about the refs, but he was being very careful to not directly refer to them.
The question was about the officiating. Wojo was referring to the referees.
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No
Well that is a pick-me-up.
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The ref said Theo pushed Powell while he was airborne. It didn't actually happen, but that is what he told the scorekeeper
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refs were bad. MU choked. Their game. Passed out. Period.
Did MU choke? Seton Hall missed almost no shots once our defense was decimated and seemingly the rest were playing with 4 fouls. I don't know if what happened comes anywhere near choking. The heart displayed by those that remained was admirable. That game is a runaway blowout for most teams after what happened. We were mortally crippled and lost by 2.
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Maybe...but he passes the ball...wish our guy did that. Kills me to see Sam standing wide open with 2 seconds left and markus refusing to do what Powell just showed him how to do.
Wrong, Markus was passing the ball Hausers scored first 11 points
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The ref said Theo pushed Powell while he was airborne. It didn't actually happen, but that is what he told the scorekeeper
It took them 8 minutes and replay to determine that. Good lord, why were the officials even on the court?
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"I wish our kids would have a chance to decide the game...I don't judge officials. That's for you guys to decide."
-Wojo tonight after game
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I think he was a jerk several times during the game but I don't think that is what happened there
I mean, it was shown on the broadcast. Wasn't really ambiguous.
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Kevin Willard said the refs did a good job. Pretty hilarious.
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I thought letting those blatant arm hacks go on Anim and Markus on drives early on totally set the tone. Call those and it's a sane ball game with MU winning comfortably IMO
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I thought letting those blatant arm hacks go on Anim and Markus on drives early on totally set the tone. Call those and it's a sane ball game with MU winning comfortably IMO
Yep, changed the game midway through the first half.
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Are the Big East officials putting a little extra in the referees' paycheck? The BET got the final they wanted.
What? Marquette would generate a larger TV audience by far.
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Free throws matter. Mindset matters. MU is soft. Nova hard. That team believes. Wojo’s team passed down its leg. Laughable
Nope 2 of our 3 toughest players got ejected
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Marcus wrist is hurting more then everyone is letting on.
Than?
Not everyone..some here are expecting declarations of major injuries and possible surgeries to justify our decline.
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Marquette did not play well. They were robbed of their ability to play defense. Their opponents best player should have been ejected 10 mins in, yet again 28 mins in, but was ejected neither time due to awful officiating, and he won the game. Meanwhile our our best player is hurt and 1/15. And we still had a shot to win it.
It sucks. We got unnatural carnal knowledgeed. Game that matters is next Thur/Fri.
Can’t believe what my eyes just saw.
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"I wish our kids would have a chance to decide the game...I don't judge officials. That's for you guys to decide."
-Wojo tonight after game
Yep. I started another thread on that after the blown ejection fiasco.
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Marquette did not play well. They were robbed of their ability to play defense. Their opponents best player should have been ejected 10 mins in, yet again 28 mins in, but was ejected neither time due to awful officiating, and he won the game. Meanwhile our our best player is hurt and 1/15. And we still had a shot to win it.
It sucks. We got unnatural carnal knowledgeed. Game that matters is next Thur/Fri.
Can’t believe what my eyes just saw.
You stated it better than I would have. +1
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Been saying it since it happened and been ridiculed ever since. Yes, he's hurt and hasn't played to his level since, but people want to ignore it.
Never stopped you before...
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For the first time ever I can say the refs cost us a game. The post game guys on Fox agreed it was awful. They talked more about the refs than SHU. Wojo handle it with class. Kudos to him.
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Disagree. I think that was definitely about the refs, but he was being very careful to not directly refer to them.
I certainly hope youre wrong. Leaders own up to their shortcomings. 'The refs have it out for me' is weak sauce.
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Wojo was right. Our two best defenders were taken out of the game. That forced Markus onto Powell. Did Seton Hall look better down the stretch? Sure. Because our strongest perimeter defender & best rim protector were in the locker room. Kick out Powell like they should've while leaving our guys in and we would've looked better too.
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Nope 2 of our 3 toughest players got ejected
Yeah - it’s odd that people are saying that SHU was the tougher team tonight, but forgetting to mention that rather critical little tidbit.
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I certainly hope youre wrong. Leaders own up to their shortcomings. 'The refs have it out for me' is weak sauce.
Some primo trolling up for the taking tonight! Someone's gotta do it.
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Big east refs hate Marquette. I’m sorry. We’ve been getting absolutely robbed for weeks. Embarrassing reffing.
I agree. I think it will be refreshing to start over in the NCAA tournament. Hopefully there will be some objective stripes. Things that seemed like fouls or no call on both sides were called inexplicably the other way. It was so random there was no way to know what a call would be before the announcer called it. I was initially clapping at calls that 5 seconds later I found were called against us. Brutal.
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Wojo was right. Our two best defenders were taken out of the game. That forced Markus onto Powell. Did Seton Hall look better down the stretch? Sure. Because our strongest perimeter defender & best rim protector were in the locker room. Kick out Powell like they should've while leaving our guys in and we would've looked better too.
No crap. I called an advantage to Powell before the game.
Game starts....
T for elbowing Sacar. Kicked out...escorted off the court....crying in the locker room..no wait...cmon buddy keep your head up and get back in there!
When Booth said Powell winked at him pre game and said see you tomorrow night...my $ moved.
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Hilarious that Theo got ejected for something that happens to Markus multiple times a game.
There's a reason the refs are breaking protocol and not allowing media into the ref locker room. The fix was 100% in. It's not like their safety is in danger from some media people lol.
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You can say they had a bad game. But really what’s with the conspiracy? Marquette/Nova is a much better TV draw.
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Conspiracy? No. Completely inept? Absolutely.
Agree with another poster- honestly after that game I just wanted to escape without further injury to any of our players. What a joke of an ending.
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Can’t find the rule anywhere, but why did we only get one FT for the basket interference tech? It’s in the play by play as one free throw too, so the broadcast didn’t miss it too.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/john_fanta/status/1106785096974172160?s=21
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Can’t find the rule anywhere, but why did we only get one FT for the basket interference tech? It’s in the play by play as one free throw too, so the broadcast didn’t miss it too.
thats the rule in ncaa. There are classes of T’s and hanging on the rim is the lower class so only 1 shot.
From Wikipedia:
Before the 2015–16 season, college basketball awarded two shots for all technical fouls, with the ball then put in play at the point of interruption (POI), the spot and circumstances where play was stopped for the technical. Since 2015–16, the NCAA awards only one free throw for so-called "Class B" technicals, such as hanging on the rim or delay of game; "Class A" technical fouls still result in two free throws.
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You can say they had a bad game. But really what’s with the conspiracy? Marquette/Nova is a much better TV draw.
Yes. There has never been an east coast game fixing case. Or maybe not? Let's ask the guys in jail.
I don't think anything happened tonight except bad officiating but to completely ignore outside influences is ignorant.
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They were bad. That whole technical deal in the first half was a total debacle.
Buutt..... we were up after that. We had a chance to shut the door
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https://mobile.twitter.com/john_fanta/status/1106785096974172160?s=21
That was a CYA response if I've ever read one.
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That was a CYA response if I've ever read one.
CYA usually has a foundation in reality. This was unnatural carnal knowledgeing lame
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I was at the game, I did not see everything that happened during the fracas that caused the ejections and they didn't show replays, so I did not know what happened. Knowing Theo, I figured he probably earned his ejection. The mood in the building was that Marquette was getting every call, and even I thought we got a friendlier then SHU whistle, especially at the end when Markus was the beneficiary of a couple ticky-tack bumps and SHU kept getting techs to keep us in the game.
If the ejections were unjustified, that of course changes everything.
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I was at the game, I did not see everything that happened during the fracas that caused the ejections and they didn't show replays, so I did not know what happened. Knowing Theo, I figured he probably earned his ejection. The mood in the building was that Marquette was getting every call, and even I thought we got a friendlier then SHU whistle, especially at the end when Markus was the beneficiary of a couple ticky-tack bumps and SHU kept getting techs to keep us in the game.
If the ejections were unjustified, that of course changes everything.
https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1106790110727684096/pu/pl/ud0H8nnW4ZlGJbmi.m3u8?tag=8
Then theo gets shoved in the back and walks away.
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I was at the game, I did not see everything that happened during the fracas that caused the ejections and they didn't show replays, so I did not know what happened. Knowing Theo, I figured he probably earned his ejection. The mood in the building was that Marquette was getting every call, and even I thought we got a friendlier then SHU whistle, especially at the end when Markus was the beneficiary of a couple ticky-tack bumps and SHU kept getting techs to keep us in the game.
If the ejections were unjustified, that of course changes everything.
If you can stomach it you should watch the televised version. Your perception on everything you posted will be different
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I was at the game, I did not see everything that happened during the fracas that caused the ejections and they didn't show replays, so I did not know what happened.
Prob should have just stopped there tbh
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My 81 year old mother-in-law (grew up in Boston, rarely watches college basketball) calls this morning and tells me the game was "fixed."
I can't disagree with her.
But the sad part for the Big East is that there are people like Nana out there wondering if the game was fixed. Black eye for the Big East.
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Prob should have just stopped there tbh
he was giving his impression of the situation from the crowd. I appreciated it. Unlike Seth Davis not watching from a studio, his opinion is worthwhile for something.
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Yes. There has never been an east coast game fixing case. Or maybe not? Let's ask the guys in jail.
I don't think anything happened tonight except bad officiating but to completely ignore outside influences is ignorant.
I'm old, I remember, what team?
Oh, Seton Hall, now I remember.
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Would anyone be surprised if in 5 years we found out the BET was fixed?
It would be just another scandal in a long list of corruption . . .
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Oh, and Sams actually shown he can hit those in end of game situations
I was ok with Markus last look, and it was online just an inch or two short, but I do frequently think in these end of game situations about Markus’s comments after Creighton. He went on about how Sam is the guy in practice who always makes last second shots. So, I do wish at times he would take his words to heart and find Sam in some of these clutch situations.
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Would anyone be surprised if in 5 years we found out the BET was fixed?
It would be just another scandal in a long list of corruption . . .
The old game was shaving points, the new game is the little black, plastic, whistle.
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The old game was shaving points, the new game is the little black, plastic, whistle.
No argument from me.
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[quote author=Shooter McGavin link=topic=58243.msg1107113#msg1107113 date=1552712395
It was so random there was no way to know what a call would be before the announcer called it. I was initially clapping at calls that 5 seconds later I found were called against us. Brutal.
[/quote]
I did the exact same thing twice. Unreal.
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They were bad. That whole technical deal in the first half was a total debacle.
Buutt..... we were up after that. We had a chance to shut the door
You keep forgetting that our two best defenders were in the locker room....why is this ignored? You further forget to mention while they were on the floor, Mr. Powell was doing NOTHING. Furthermore, Anim had 10 points and was looking damn good offensively.
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You keep forgetting that our two best defenders were in the locker room....why is this ignored? You further forget to mention while they were on the floor, Mr. Powell was doing NOTHING. Furthermore, Anim had 10 points and was looking damn good offensively.
And was a steadying hand for possessions
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Knowing Theo, I figured he probably earned his ejection.
....and herein lies the problem.
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You keep forgetting that our two best defenders were in the locker room....why is this ignored? You further forget to mention while they were on the floor, Mr. Powell was doing NOTHING. Furthermore, Anim had 10 points and was looking damn good offensively.
It would be too obvious and unthinkable to pick on the BE-POTY, so focus on Anim and Theo, it goes under the radar. And don't do anything unseemly in the closing minutes. The fix can't be seen. I like to see an analysis of the midwest game outcomes over the past 8 years and not simply this game.
It is also unfortunate that the games are played on the virtual home court of four of the teams in the league. It is what it is, stay home, save your money, or send MU a check.
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Here's what I don't get about the whole airborne player/vulnerable position thing. If you're going to follow that rule to the letter of the law, which is what you should be doing when you review a play, wouldn't just about every shooting foul technically fall under that category? It's literally called a "jump shot". When you're shooting, you're always airborne and vulnerable, that's why a lot of the time a player falls down when a foul is called. It just seems like the rule is worded so vaguely that most common fouls could be seen as F2 if you look hard enough.
TAMU quoted the entire rule earlier but "The potential for injury resulting from the contact (e.g., a blow to the head or a foul committed while the player was in a vulnerable position)" So would the (should have been) block where Markus hurt his wrist have been a F2? Of course not, but going strictly by the letter of the law it could have been. Needs to be addressed.
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You keep forgetting that our two best defenders were in the locker room....why is this ignored? You further forget to mention while they were on the floor, Mr. Powell was doing NOTHING. Furthermore, Anim had 10 points and was looking damn good offensively.
Cheeks says it all in so few words, thanks. Without Anim AND Markus Marquette is a totally different team. With Powell thuggery S.H. is Seton Hall. Let's see how their bad a$$ act works in the NCAA tournament. It seems to be what our friends in NYC like to see.
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If you can stomach it you should watch the televised version. Your perception on everything you posted will be different
I watched the whole game again just now. I do not understand any argument that Anim did not deserve that second technical. He basically forced the ref's hand. He has got to be smarter than that. I agree the guy he was jawing with should also have gotten one. To me, besides the bad officiating both ways where it is impossible to tell which of the two teams came out ahead (Markus got a couple of gift calls during our comeback), it boils down to Powell not getting a flagrant 2 and Theo getting a flagrant 2. I agree that Powell's was worse, and I think an F1 was probably in order for Theo. But we are ignoring that what Theo did was pointless and stupid, and maybe a little dirty. He was not making a play on the ball and just gave a little push for no reason other than to give a little push.
The reffing was a big story, but I am not convinced it was the biggest reason we lost. We didn't defensive rebound down the stretch yet again (they basically shot until they scored or we fouled them for a stretch), we didn't execute on offense during that stretch when they passed us and went up 7, and we missed some foul shots and Markus had a terrible shooting night.
We can still get a win or two in the tournament, but this has been a brutal 3 weeks.
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I watched the whole game again just now. I do not understand any argument that Anim did not deserve that second technical. He basically forced the ref's hand. He has got to be smarter than that. I agree the guy he was jawing with should also have gotten one. To me, besides the bad officiating both ways where it is impossible to tell which of the two teams came out ahead (Markus got a couple of gift calls during our comeback), it boils down to Powell not getting a flagrant 2 and Theo getting a flagrant 2. I agree that Powell's was worse, and I think an F1 was probably in order for Theo. But we are ignoring that what Theo did was pointless and stupid, and maybe a little dirty. He was not making a play on the ball and just gave a little push for no reason other than to give a little push.
The reffing was a big story, but I am not convinced it was the biggest reason we lost. We didn't defensive rebound down the stretch yet again (they basically shot until they scored or we fouled them for a stretch), we didn't execute on offense during that stretch when they passed us and went up 7, and we missed some foul shots and Markus had a terrible shooting night.
We can still get a win or two in the tournament, but this has been a brutal 3 weeks.
If only we had our best man defender and best interior defender to mitigate the "no rebounding" and letting them get shots.
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We thought the refs were bad in our game? Check out Florida - Auburn. Auburn was intentionally fouling the Florida player. Refs refused to call it. Could have sent the game to overtime.
https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/florida-football/watch-referees-decide-not-to-call-foul-as-florida-runs-out-of-time-vs-auburn/
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With respect to Anim, what I really didn't understand was the first technical.
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Time to move on, better this happened in a BET game than an NCAA tourny game. Hopefully Howard heals up as does the team and we get decent draws for next weekend.
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I watched the whole game again just now. I do not understand any argument that Anim did not deserve that second technical. He basically forced the ref's hand. He has got to be smarter than that. I agree the guy he was jawing with should also have gotten one. To me, besides the bad officiating both ways where it is impossible to tell which of the two teams came out ahead (Markus got a couple of gift calls during our comeback), it boils down to Powell not getting a flagrant 2 and Theo getting a flagrant 2. I agree that Powell's was worse, and I think an F1 was probably in order for Theo. But we are ignoring that what Theo did was pointless and stupid, and maybe a little dirty. He was not making a play on the ball and just gave a little push for no reason other than to give a little push.
The reffing was a big story, but I am not convinced it was the biggest reason we lost. We didn't defensive rebound down the stretch yet again (they basically shot until they scored or we fouled them for a stretch), we didn't execute on offense during that stretch when they passed us and went up 7, and we missed some foul shots and Markus had a terrible shooting night.
We can still get a win or two in the tournament, but this has been a brutal 3 weeks.
A win or 2 in the tournament? What do you base that on? Maybe playing a 16 seed.
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A win or 2 in the tournament? What do you base that on? Maybe playing a 16 seed.
I will bet you blindly we win our first round game without knowing opponent.
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A win or 2 in the tournament? What do you base that on? Maybe playing a 16 seed.
Basing it on your lack of knowledge as a human being and basketball "fan", and the fact you saying it cannot be done makes it all the more likely it will.
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Basing it on your lack of knowledge as a human being and basketball "fan", and the fact you saying it cannot be done makes it all the more likely it will.
You must be clairovoyant snowflake, as you do not know me at all as a human being. Interesting that you have such animosity for somebody that you do not know, simply because opinions expressed do not agree with yours. Yes, I am a fan, so stay in your lane snowflake. Let us all know when you develop some knowledge. And BTW, you saying "it" can be done does not make anything likely. But I guess you already know that, with you limitless knowledge, snowflake.
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You must be clairovoyant snowflake, as you do not know me at all as a human being. Interesting that you have such animosity for somebody that you do not know, simply because opinions expressed do not agree with yours. Yes, I am a fan, so stay in your lane snowflake. Let us all know when you develop some knowledge. And BTW, you saying "it" can be done does not make anything likely. But I guess you already know that, with you limitless knowledge, snowflake.
I know you only come here to complain about the team and players. It's what you do. Furthermore, I know when we win, you are nowhere to be found. I have this notion in my head that when we win, which is the vast majority of the time, you are just stewing in a pile of steamy sweat super pissed off at the world that MU won DESPITE your wishes and despite how you tell us how bad we are, or how bad our coach is. Every time we win, it puts an extra smile on my face knowing how pissed off you are. Makes my day.
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I watched the whole game again just now. I do not understand any argument that Anim did not deserve that second technical. He basically forced the ref's hand. He has got to be smarter than that. I agree the guy he was jawing with should also have gotten one. To me, besides the bad officiating both ways where it is impossible to tell which of the two teams came out ahead (Markus got a couple of gift calls during our comeback), it boils down to Powell not getting a flagrant 2 and Theo getting a flagrant 2. I agree that Powell's was worse, and I think an F1 was probably in order for Theo. But we are ignoring that what Theo did was pointless and stupid, and maybe a little dirty. He was not making a play on the ball and just gave a little push for no reason other than to give a little push.
The reffing was a big story, but I am not convinced it was the biggest reason we lost. We didn't defensive rebound down the stretch yet again (they basically shot until they scored or we fouled them for a stretch), we didn't execute on offense during that stretch when they passed us and went up 7, and we missed some foul shots and Markus had a terrible shooting night.
We can still get a win or two in the tournament, but this has been a brutal 3 weeks.
Not sure what game you watched, but outside SHU fans its is 100% agreed MU was at best victim of terrible officiating and at worst victim of a fix. Don't take my word for it, look on the internet for other insight.
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I'm clearly biased, but I believe the officiating 100% favored Hall until about the last 120 seconds when it suddenly switched drastically to benefiting Marquette. My exhibits:
1. The clear hack on Sacar's dunk attempt that wasn't called
2. The hard foul on Markus on the breakaway layup that wasn't called
3. The flagrant 1 instead of 2 on Powell's intentional elbow
4. The treating Sacar clapping more harshly than Powell throwing an elbow
5. The goaltend on John that was a clean block (watched on slow mo a few times, he got the ball cleanly before it hit the backboard)
6. The phantom 3rd foul on John that was called with no time on the clock, that was upheld despite review
7. No technical for Nelson despite blindsiding Sacar with a shove
8. Calling a flagrant 2 on John
9. Not calling two fouls on Powell after the scuffle that would have fouled him out
10. No technical for McKnight when he elbowed Markus in the face (was given a personal foul)
11. Missed McKnight shoving Markus with two hands to get open on an inbounds play
12. Don't remember where but missed an obvious travel on a fast break (tried to jump stop but took two extra steps) that led to a Powell three
There were a lot bad calls that went our way, especially at the end, but early I think it was very favored towards Seton Hall. I don't think that was intentional, but just how it played out. Home court advantage is a thing.
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I'm clearly biased, but I believe the officiating 100% favored Hall until about the last 120 seconds when it suddenly switched drastically to benefiting Marquette. My exhibits:
1. The clear hack on Sacar's dunk attempt that wasn't called
2. The hard foul on Markus on the breakaway layup that wasn't called
3. The flagrant 1 instead of 2 on Powell's intentional elbow
4. The treating Sacar clapping more harshly than Powell throwing an elbow
5. The goaltend on John that was a clean block (watched on slow mo a few times, he got the ball cleanly before it hit the backboard)
6. The phantom 3rd foul on John that was called with no time on the clock, that was upheld despite review
7. No technical for Nelson despite blindsiding Sacar with a shove
8. Calling a flagrant 2 on John
9. Not calling two fouls on Powell after the scuffle that would have fouled him out
10. No technical for McKnight when he elbowed Markus in the face (was given a personal foul)
11. Missed McKnight shoving Markus with two hands to get open on an inbounds play
12. Don't remember where but missed an obvious travel on a fast break (tried to jump stop but took two extra steps) that led to a Powell three
There were a lot bad calls that went our way, especially at the end, but early I think it was very favored towards Seton Hall. I don't think that was intentional, but just how it played out. Home court advantage is a thing.
You're absolutely right. The officiating was awful overall. The fact that we even came back to the point of having a potential game winner is a testament to that. They gave MU way a number of very favorable calls at the end, but throughout much of the game didn't work in their favor. The ejections were just a complete joke. If you want Anim + John gone, Powell has to be in the locker room too. They were too scared to sabotage SHU chances taking out their star player like that.
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I'm clearly biased, but I believe the officiating 100% favored Hall until about the last 120 seconds when it suddenly switched drastically to benefiting Marquette. My exhibits:
1. The clear hack on Sacar's dunk attempt that wasn't called
2. The hard foul on Markus on the breakaway layup that wasn't called
3. The flagrant 1 instead of 2 on Powell's intentional elbow
4. The treating Sacar clapping more harshly than Powell throwing an elbow
5. The goaltend on John that was a clean block (watched on slow mo a few times, he got the ball cleanly before it hit the backboard)
6. The phantom 3rd foul on John that was called with no time on the clock, that was upheld despite review
7. No technical for Nelson despite blindsiding Sacar with a shove
8. Calling a flagrant 2 on John
9. Not calling two fouls on Powell after the scuffle that would have fouled him out
10. No technical for McKnight when he elbowed Markus in the face (was given a personal foul)
11. Missed McKnight shoving Markus with two hands to get open on an inbounds play
12. Don't remember where but missed an obvious travel on a fast break (tried to jump stop but took two extra steps) that led to a Powell three
There were a lot bad calls that went our way, especially at the end, but early I think it was very favored towards Seton Hall. I don't think that was intentional, but just how it played out. Home court advantage is a thing.
I agree on all except the Theo call right before halftime. It shouldn't have been called, but he did hit the shooter's arm with 0.1 on the clock.
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I agree on all except the Theo call right before halftime. It shouldn't have been called, but he did hit the shooter's arm with 0.1 on the clock.
I could be wrong, but my understanding is that the call needs to be made before the buzzer, not the foul itself.
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Wow. Excellent recap TAMU. If you fill in the last 120 seconds what you have are CYA refs knowing there will be a shytshow after the game to account for. Hall got hosed in these last 110 seconds and then the Cain foul happened. So erratic.
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I could be wrong, but my understanding is that the call needs to be made before the buzzer, not the foul itself.
Correct. It goes on the ref’s arm going up...which occurred after the clock hit 0.0.
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I could be wrong, but my understanding is that the call needs to be made before the buzzer, not the foul itself.
I don’t care to look it up, but they seemed to be consistent with this kind of call in tonight’s championship game. Right before the end of the game, when they whistled Booth for that horrible traveling call, they put the clock back to 0.4, which was when this so-called traveling would have happened, not when the ref put his arm up at like 0.1.
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If only we had our best man defender and best interior defender to mitigate the "no rebounding" and letting them get shots.
I don't think Anim being tossed is the refs fault. I think it is Anim's fault. you clap and gloat at another player you risk a T. Seen it called many times this season. You chase and shove a guy, even if he shoved you first, and you're likely to get a technical. I agree Theo should not have been tossed, but he put himself in jeopardy with that stupid little pointless push. It was absolutely on purpose and not for any basketball reason. At any rate, Theo played 13 minutes and had 4 fouls. I doubt we would have gotten more than 3 or 4 more minutes out him anyway, particularly because of the way he plays and the way the game was being officiated in the second half.
One thing I agree with you all on is that the reffing was atrocious and that Powell's foul was more deserving of a flagrant two than any other foul on the evening, as it was obviously not a basketball play and just a cheap shot he was hoping to get away with. And that is a huge thing. Other than that, I just thought the lousy reffing was fairly evenly distributed.
I also freely admit I am less likely to blame referees than the average fan. I tend to focus solely on the my team and what it could have done better or differently when considering or watching a game.
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I'm clearly biased, but I believe the officiating 100% favored Hall until about the last 120 seconds when it suddenly switched drastically to benefiting Marquette. My exhibits:
1. The clear hack on Sacar's dunk attempt that wasn't called
2. The hard foul on Markus on the breakaway layup that wasn't called
3. The flagrant 1 instead of 2 on Powell's intentional elbow
4. The treating Sacar clapping more harshly than Powell throwing an elbow
5. The goaltend on John that was a clean block (watched on slow mo a few times, he got the ball cleanly before it hit the backboard)
6. The phantom 3rd foul on John that was called with no time on the clock, that was upheld despite review
7. No technical for Nelson despite blindsiding Sacar with a shove
8. Calling a flagrant 2 on John
9. Not calling two fouls on Powell after the scuffle that would have fouled him out
10. No technical for McKnight when he elbowed Markus in the face (was given a personal foul)
11. Missed McKnight shoving Markus with two hands to get open on an inbounds play
12. Don't remember where but missed an obvious travel on a fast break (tried to jump stop but took two extra steps) that led to a Powell three
There were a lot bad calls that went our way, especially at the end, but early I think it was very favored towards Seton Hall. I don't think that was intentional, but just how it played out. Home court advantage is a thing.
I hate the game even more after reading this. There’s no worse feeling than being cheated
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I watched the whole game again just now. I do not understand any argument that Anim did not deserve that second technical. He basically forced the ref's hand. He has got to be smarter than that. I agree the guy he was jawing with should also have gotten one. To me, besides the bad officiating both ways where it is impossible to tell which of the two teams came out ahead (Markus got a couple of gift calls during our comeback), it boils down to Powell not getting a flagrant 2 and Theo getting a flagrant 2. I agree that Powell's was worse, and I think an F1 was probably in order for Theo. But we are ignoring that what Theo did was pointless and stupid, and maybe a little dirty. He was not making a play on the ball and just gave a little push for no reason other than to give a little push.
The reffing was a big story, but I am not convinced it was the biggest reason we lost. We didn't defensive rebound down the stretch yet again (they basically shot until they scored or we fouled them for a stretch), we didn't execute on offense during that stretch when they passed us and went up 7, and we missed some foul shots and Markus had a terrible shooting night.
We can still get a win or two in the tournament, but this has been a brutal 3 weeks.
Warrior - your analysis won't be popular here - but it is spot on accurate.
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I was at the game, I did not see everything that happened during the fracas that caused the ejections and they didn't show replays, so I did not know what happened. Knowing Theo, I figured he probably earned his ejection. The mood in the building was that Marquette was getting every call, and even I thought we got a friendlier then SHU whistle, especially at the end when Markus was the beneficiary of a couple ticky-tack bumps and SHU kept getting techs to keep us in the game.
If the ejections were unjustified, that of course changes everything.
I have the same problem, CT. I do have to disagree that the "mood in the building" was that MU was getting every call. I couldn't see what the hell happened in the scuffle. The elbow to Sacar was right in front of me, and I could not believe he got a T for clapping.
Could somebody post a clip that shows the scuffle? I can't open the one from Warriors1.
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Warrior - your analysis won't be popular here - but it is spot on accurate.
Agreed just not smart by our guys. We did not need to tempt the refs.
Also can we please stop playing air guitar after threes in the first half? Maybe when we are up by 30 with two minutes to go in the game it would be better (I’m all about having some fun). But it reminds me of celebrating at first down when your football team is losing by two touchdowns.
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It took them 8 minutes and replay to determine that. Good lord, why were the officials even on the court?
The refs spent the better part of 8 minutes trying to figure out how not to eject Powell from the game. And, congratulations to them - they did just that.
Apparently, they discovered that if you have 2 flagrant fouls you are ejected, if you have two technicals you are ejected, if you have 1 of each you get to keep playing (but only if the fight is not considered 'a fight'). Who knew?
Again, congratulations they did it, and it only took 8 minutes.
The NCAA is one of the most corrupt organizations around, and the Big East no different.
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The refs spent the better part of 8 minutes trying to figure out how not to eject Powell from the game. And, congratulations to them - they did just that.
Apparently, they discovered that if you have 2 flagrant fouls you are ejected, if you have two technicals you are ejected, if you have 1 of each you get to keep playing (but only if the fight is not considered 'a fight'). Who knew?
Again, congratulations they did it, and it only took 8 minutes.
The NCAA is one of the most corrupt organizations around, and the Big East no different.
The ncaa is made up of member schools as is the Big East. Each school has a vote.
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Wasn't that lead ref the same ahole that T'd up Buzz for falling?
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Wasn't that lead ref the same ahole that T'd up Buzz for falling?
Yes
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Yes, this was a badly officiated game affectimg the quality of play on both sides for much of the game. Markus is our key guy but clearly playing banged up enough to have to leave for the locker room for a while. He was held in check by this and a solid team of defenders including Myles Powell.
Powell is their key guy and was held in check for much of the game by Sacar.
The "incident" is a head scratcher but goes back to my first point.
Okay, we were jobbed. Powell caught a break and is a thug. Life is unfair.
This team plays like a team and now has a chip on it's shoulder at just the right time. Markus can rest his sore body and ice the wrist. He is a deserving BE POY. I am very proud of his leadership and his character.
I'll take him, the Hauers, Sacar, Theo/Ed against any starting five the NCAA matches them with in the first round. After they win that one one, make it two rounds, then....
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The refs were all veteran guys we see a lot, but they're usually the second or third guy combined with somebody better to limit the damage they can do. To go with these 3 together in a big game was really bad call by Big East. Especially when they had pat Driscoll (who may be annoying but at least has lot of big game experience...final fours etc.) Sitting at the scorers table all night as a backup.
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Big East refs dropped the ball
By Howie Kussoy March 16, 2019 | 6:11am
https://nypost.com/2019/03/16/big-east-refs-dropped-the-ball/
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Big East refs dropped the ball
By Howie Kussoy March 16, 2019 | 6:11am
https://nypost.com/2019/03/16/big-east-refs-dropped-the-ball/
Well, he says they were bad, but he doesn't say biased or unfair to us.
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Well, he says they were bad, but he doesn't say biased or unfair to us.
He is in the fraternity, what do you want him to say? Read between the lines. The man needs his job, I don't.
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I'm clearly biased, but I believe the officiating 100% favored Hall until about the last 120 seconds when it suddenly switched drastically to benefiting Marquette. My exhibits:
1. The clear hack on Sacar's dunk attempt that wasn't called
2. The hard foul on Markus on the breakaway layup that wasn't called
3. The flagrant 1 instead of 2 on Powell's intentional elbow
4. The treating Sacar clapping more harshly than Powell throwing an elbow
5. The goaltend on John that was a clean block (watched on slow mo a few times, he got the ball cleanly before it hit the backboard)
6. The phantom 3rd foul on John that was called with no time on the clock, that was upheld despite review
7. No technical for Nelson despite blindsiding Sacar with a shove
8. Calling a flagrant 2 on John
9. Not calling two fouls on Powell after the scuffle that would have fouled him out
10. No technical for McKnight when he elbowed Markus in the face (was given a personal foul)
11. Missed McKnight shoving Markus with two hands to get open on an inbounds play
12. Don't remember where but missed an obvious travel on a fast break (tried to jump stop but took two extra steps) that led to a Powell three
There were a lot bad calls that went our way, especially at the end, but early I think it was very favored towards Seton Hall. I don't think that was intentional, but just how it played out. Home court advantage is a thing.
Oh man, I forgot about the end of half foul call. Seeing the replay at MSG, it looked like a super-clean block to me, the Nova fans in front of me and to my right, and the PC fans behind me. Once the refs went to review if it came in time, I said to everyone that even if the foul wasn't called in time (which it wasn't), now the refs could at least use that to get rid of the foul, since they'll clearly see it was a horrendous call.
One point that I don't think I've seen brought up here (perhaps it is in another thread), I think the NCAA needs to revisit the ejection rules and the loophole that allowed Powell to stay on. Forget for a second whether or not it should have been a F1 or F2. But if two flagrants equals an ejection, and two technicals equals an ejection, then I think a flagrant and a technical should equal an ejection as well.
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The refs were all veteran guys we see a lot, but they're usually the second or third guy combined with somebody better to limit the damage they can do. To go with these 3 together in a big game was really bad call by Big East. Especially when they had pat Driscoll (who may be annoying but at least has lot of big game experience...final fours etc.) Sitting at the scorers table all night as a backup.
It's not a bad call, it's called malicious intent
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If Theo's brush of Powell while he was already out of control was malicious intent then Powell's elbow on Sacar was attempted homicide