MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Pakuni on March 12, 2019, 05:25:14 PM
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Billy Kennedy out at Texas A&M, according to the Houston Chronicle.
Any idea who might be a candidate there?
https://www.chron.com/sports/aggies/article/Texas-A-M-s-Billy-Kennedy-won-t-be-back-13683278.php
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Buzz to A&M seems.....possible.
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Billy Kennedy out at Texas A&M, according to the Houston Chronicle.
Any idea who might be a candidate there?
https://www.chron.com/sports/aggies/article/Texas-A-M-s-Billy-Kennedy-won-t-be-back-13683278.php
Does the Buzz’s Bunch segment air when VT is announced in the bracket or when they breakdown the game?
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It will be fun to watch MU's previous two head coaches got head-to-head in Texas.
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If Arizona and Kansas lose their head coaches, then the fun really begins.
What assistant coach we looking to hire if Wojo leaves....who is on the short list? I hear the assistant out of _______ is awesome.
For Kennedy, I hope he is able to continue to fight Parkinson's to his best ability. Dreadful disease we are dealing with at the moment, too.
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If Arizona and Kansas lose their head coaches, then the fun really begins.
What assistant coach we looking to hire if Wojo leaves....who is on the short list? I hear the assistant out of _______ is awesome.
For Kennedy, I hope he is able to continue to fight Parkinson's to his best ability. Dreadful disease we are dealing with at the moment, too.
that's right jam man-forgot about that-hoping good things- sending prayers out west to ya!
wondering if buzz wants to leave ACC. he could own VT if he continues to win
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If Arizona and Kansas lose their head coaches, then the fun really begins.
What assistant coach we looking to hire if Wojo leaves....who is on the short list? I hear the assistant out of _______ is awesome.
For Kennedy, I hope he is able to continue to fight Parkinson's to his best ability. Dreadful disease we are dealing with at the moment, too.
I dont think to many high majors have wojo on their radar with a career of .589 with a 0-1 tournament record and a monumental collapse from #10 to #23 in two weeks.
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that's right jam man-forgot about that-hoping good things- sending prayers out west to ya!
wondering if buzz wants to leave ACC. he could own VT if he continues to win
Surgery Thursday, prep yesterday. Thanks for well wishes for her.
In my opinion Va Tech can never be better long haul over UNC, Duke, and a few others. Football king there. SEC has Kentucky and what seems like a revolving door of teams that cycle in and out. I would be surprised if he doesn’t go to Texas and the SEC
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wondering if buzz wants to leave ACC. he could own VT if he continues to win
Not unless he changes his name to Frank Beamer
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CBS is reporting that Texas A&M is going to part ways with coach Billy Kennedy and is going to make a hard run at Virginia Tech’s Buzz Williams.
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CBS is reporting that Texas A&M is going to part ways with coach Billy Kennedy and is going to make a hard run at Virginia Tech’s Buzz Williams.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/report-texas-a-m-coach-billy-kennedy-will-not-return-to-the-aggies-next-season/?fbclid=IwAR0gUevGe8vTuSDukDBs8YF6pP-gVyquX8RSy0hXoDoSYKvQycQET-nF7NQ
The Chronicle reports that Virginia Tech coach Buzz Williams, a Texas native and former A&M assistant, is expected to be a top target. Williams has been the subject of coaching searches in previous years, but has remained with the Hokies since taking the job in 2014. He's expected to lead Virginia Tech to the NCAA Tournament for a third consecutive season.
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Did I miss something with Texas A&M? They were in the Sweet 16 a year ago, and have made the Sweet 16 twice in the past 4 seasons.
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If Arizona and Kansas lose their head coaches, then the fun really begins.
What assistant coach we looking to hire if Wojo leaves....who is on the short list? I hear the assistant out of _______ is awesome.
For Kennedy, I hope he is able to continue to fight Parkinson's to his best ability. Dreadful disease we are dealing with at the moment, too.
If these jobs come open they are probably coming open with a lot of sanctions attached. May need to find someone who is more off the radar or who has stepped away from the college game like Kentucky did with Pitino.
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If Arizona and Kansas lose their head coaches, then the fun really begins.
What assistant coach we looking to hire if Wojo leaves....who is on the short list? I hear the assistant out of _______ is awesome.
For Kennedy, I hope he is able to continue to fight Parkinson's to his best ability. Dreadful disease we are dealing with at the moment, too.
If these jobs come open they are probably coming open with a lot of sanctions attached. May need to find someone who is more off the radar or who has stepped away from the college game like Kentucky did with Pitino.
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Did I miss something with Texas A&M? They were in the Sweet 16 a year ago, and have made the Sweet 16 twice in the past 4 seasons.
wades, I thought it was odd that the school was dumping Kennedy now, too.
However, I just read the Chronicle article, and it cited not only this dumpster-fire of a season there but the fact that the arena is less than half-full most games. Kennedy was quoted as saying that even when the team was ranked high last year, there were too few fans in the seats.
Maybe the administration believes that a more dynamic personality like Buzz would help draw fans? Seems unfair to Kennedy, but that's life in the biz.
I always have chuckled at the various "Buzz to ... " rumors over the years, but really, Buzz to Texas A&M makes quite a bit of sense.
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wades, I thought it was odd that the school was dumping Kennedy now, too.
However, I just read the Chronicle article, and it cited not only this dumpster-fire of a season there but the fact that the arena is less than half-full most games. Kennedy was quoted as saying that even when the team was ranked high last year, there were too few fans in the seats.
Maybe the administration believes that a more dynamic personality like Buzz would help draw fans? Seems unfair to Kennedy, but that's life in the biz.
I always have chuckled at the various "Buzz to ... " rumors over the years, but really, Buzz to Texas A&M makes quite a bit of sense.
He does seem to generate a lot of, ummmm, buzz around a program....
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If these jobs come open they are probably coming open with a lot of sanctions attached. May need to find someone who is more off the radar or who has stepped away from the college game like Kentucky did with Pitino.
Potentially, but coaches will still gravitate there as they back up the brinks truck. It buys the new coach extra time, too.
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https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/report-texas-a-m-coach-billy-kennedy-will-not-return-to-the-aggies-next-season/?fbclid=IwAR0gUevGe8vTuSDukDBs8YF6pP-gVyquX8RSy0hXoDoSYKvQycQET-nF7NQ
The Chronicle reports that Virginia Tech coach Buzz Williams, a Texas native and former A&M assistant, is expected to be a top target. Williams has been the subject of coaching searches in previous years, but has remained with the Hokies since taking the job in 2014. He's expected to lead Virginia Tech to the NCAA Tournament for a third consecutive season.
Yeah, but how many of those rumors were started by someone other than Buzz?
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Yeah, but how many of those rumors were started by someone other than Buzz?
Plenty. They were started by Buzz’s associates.
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Reminder: Texas A&M and Marquette are in the same tournament next year. TAMUscoop and MUscoop may not survive.
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If you really want to get into conspiracy theories, Isaac Chew resigned as an assistant coach at A&M back in January to "spend time with his family." Maybe Buzz had already given indications, perhaps even through Chew himself, that he would take the deal and hire back Chew who could now recruit almost unfettered.
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Plenty. They were started by Buzz’s associates.
Buzz had friends in the media to speculate on his behalf.
TC had no friends so he had to "leak" BS by himself. Remember when he was "offered" by Illinois? LOL
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Buzz had friends in the media to speculate on his behalf.
TC had no friends so he had to "leak" BS by himself. Remember when he was "offered" by Illinois? LOL
TC didn’t have friends, let alone in the media?
This is morning humor, right?
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Did I miss something with Texas A&M? They were in the Sweet 16 a year ago, and have made the Sweet 16 twice in the past 4 seasons.
The impression I have gotten is that there are some similarities to Ohio State's parting with Thad Matta. There's a belief that Kennedy's health keeps him from being as successful as he could be.
They are right about the fan support though. No one cares about basketball here. All football and baseball.
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TC didn’t have friends, let alone in the media?
This is morning humor, right?
Yeah. Whatever folks may think of TC, he is certainly not shy.
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I would be surprised if Buzz left VT. There's no drama there right now and he is beloved to a level that one would argue is better than the current football head coach (obviously not Beamer). He got carte blanche in his contract deal (the same rollover clause - always under a five-year deal), and has been given all the resources he has asked for in order to be successful. He has elevated VT Basketball to the top level of the ACC - and, soon, Boeheim, Coach K and Roy Williams will all be stepping down, allowing him to be at the very top of the coaching ranks within, arguably, the best basketball conference in the country.
What, exactly, would A&M be able to offer Buzz that VT isn't already providing him? Buzz can essentially leave VT in a place where he is the face and recognized as the best coach in program history (where at a place at Marquette, you joined by a collection of outstanding coaches). Unless the offer him a Jimbo Fisher-sized deal, I guess I just don't see the attraction through his lens.
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What, exactly, would A&M be able to offer Buzz that VT isn't already providing him?
Home.
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Home.
I get that. But Buzz could have gone "home" to Texas in 2015; A&M in 2011 (after a Sweet 16); Oklahoma in 2011 (after a Sweet 16); OK State in 2016 or 2017; I know SMU reached out to him in 2012, but that was never a serious opportunity for him IMO.
I don't know. I guess I just don't see a reason for Buzz to currently "mess with (his) happy".
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He has elevated VT Basketball to the top level of the ACC -
Well not really.
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I would be surprised if Buzz left VT. There's no drama there right now and he is beloved to a level that one would argue is better than the current football head coach (obviously not Beamer). He got carte blanche in his contract deal (the same rollover clause - always under a five-year deal), and has been given all the resources he has asked for in order to be successful. He has elevated VT Basketball to the top level of the ACC - and, soon, Boeheim, Coach K and Roy Williams will all be stepping down, allowing him to be at the very top of the coaching ranks within, arguably, the best basketball conference in the country.
What, exactly, would A&M be able to offer Buzz that VT isn't already providing him? Buzz can essentially leave VT in a place where he is the face and recognized as the best coach in program history (where at a place at Marquette, you joined by a collection of outstanding coaches). Unless the offer him a Jimbo Fisher-sized deal, I guess I just don't see the attraction through his lens.
A&M has lots more money to burn, better recruiting territory and, as has been mentioned, it's home for Buzz.
Oh, and College Station > Blacksburg.
Buzz was never a serious candidate for Texas. They wanted Shaka or Gregg Marshall.
Also, during Buzz's tenure, VaTech has finished 15th, 7th, 7th, 7th and 5th in the ACC. Not exactly the "top level" of the conference.
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Buzz had friends in the media to speculate on his behalf.
TC had no friends so he had to "leak" BS by himself. Remember when he was "offered" by Illinois? LOL
TC had lengthy conversations with Illinois, and UCLA that year. MU wasn't as attractive of a job at the time due to CUSA and plenty of schools reached out to him.
In coaches, searches, there may not be an official "offer" but negotiations happen to determine if the coach would take the job and if the offer is going to take place.
TC got that far with Illinois before saying "thanks but no thanks" no matter what the Illinois spin was. Like they're going to say "yeah, he turned us down and Bruce Weber was our first choice all along." It's not like recruiting where coaches offer kids, many of whom are just out collecting offers from schools they are not interested in attending (there was a great article on former #1 QB recruit, Jake Heaps, whose mother would write to schools just to get them to offer a scholarship so they could publicize how many offers the kid had).
Buzz would have friends leak on message boards (e.g. Oklahoma and Arkansas) saying he was in negotiations with that school. That got him more leeway with MU to redo his contact, at least until Larry came aboard and saw through the BS.
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Also, during Buzz's tenure, VaTech has finished 15th, 7th, 7th, 7th and 5th in the ACC. Not exactly the "top level" of the conference.
This, the ceiling for VT is more approaching the Bobby Cremins' teams at GT than Duke, NC, Cuse. VT will always be second within its own state.
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I would be surprised if Buzz left VT. There's no drama there right now and he is beloved to a level that one would argue is better than the current football head coach (obviously not Beamer). He got carte blanche in his contract deal (the same rollover clause - always under a five-year deal), and has been given all the resources he has asked for in order to be successful. He has elevated VT Basketball to the top level of the ACC - and, soon, Boeheim, Coach K and Roy Williams will all be stepping down, allowing him to be at the very top of the coaching ranks within, arguably, the best basketball conference in the country.
What, exactly, would A&M be able to offer Buzz that VT isn't already providing him? Buzz can essentially leave VT in a place where he is the face and recognized as the best coach in program history (where at a place at Marquette, you joined by a collection of outstanding coaches). Unless the offer him a Jimbo Fisher-sized deal, I guess I just don't see the attraction through his lens.
This isn't a bad accounting of the situation, but for me it misses Buzz's motivations and skill set (and for that matter, why lamenting his relatively short stay at MU misses the point).
Buzz doesn't make 10 year plans. He doesn't slowly and incrementally build programs, build relationships, and position his programs on stable foundations. He's not looking at long term prospects of coaching turnover. He comes in, burns hot and successfully, and then leaves. His personality is such that there will always be 1,000,000 reasons for the last part, some his fault, others not, and most a little of both. In most places, like at MU, his results on the court will leave the fanbase thinking of what might have been. He's good at what he does. But wanting that particular type of ex back is fools gold, because its just not in the cards for him to ever root down and remain in one place very long. I think he's a younger Larry Brown.
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I’m targeting Nate Oats hard if I’m a high major in need of an upgrade. I think he’s the goods.
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A&M has lots more money to burn, better recruiting territory and, as has been mentioned, it's home for Buzz.
Oh, and College Station > Blacksburg.
Buzz was never a serious candidate for Texas. They wanted Shaka or Gregg Marshall.
Also, during Buzz's tenure, VaTech has finished 15th, 7th, 7th, 7th and 5th in the ACC. Not exactly the "top level" of the conference.
Additionally:
Alexander-Walker NBA
Justin Robinson Senior
Ahmed Hill Senior
Ty Outlaw Senior
Next year will be a down year. He knows when to hold 'em, knows when to fold 'em. He gowne
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TC had lengthy conversations with Illinois, and UCLA that year. MU wasn't as attractive of a job at the time due to CUSA and plenty of schools reached out to him.
In coaches, searches, there may not be an official "offer" but negotiations happen to determine if the coach would take the job and if the offer is going to take place.
TC got that far with Illinois before saying "thanks but no thanks" no matter what the Illinois spin was. Like they're going to say "yeah, he turned us down and Bruce Weber was our first choice all along." It's not like recruiting where coaches offer kids, many of whom are just out collecting offers from schools they are not interested in attending (there was a great article on former #1 QB recruit, Jake Heaps, whose mother would write to schools just to get them to offer a scholarship so they could publicize how many offers the kid had).
Buzz would have friends leak on message boards (e.g. Oklahoma and Arkansas) saying he was in negotiations with that school. That got him more leeway with MU to redo his contact, at least until Larry came aboard and saw through the BS.
Damn Billy, for someone that joined the board in April 2016, that sure is a detailed narrative of how it played out! How were you tracking all of that at the time?
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Damn Billy, for someone that joined the board in April 2016, that sure is a detailed narrative of how it played out! How were you tracking all of that at the time?
There have been rumblings of Buzz's unhappiness /restlessness at Vtech for over a year. This leak is his - he gone
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There have been rumblings of Buzz's unhappiness /restlessness at Vtech for over a year. This leak is his - he gone
I would lean towards agreeing, that has nothing to do with the post you quoted though
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There have been rumblings of Buzz's unhappiness /restlessness at Vtech for over a year. This leak is his - he gone
And what are those? Not saying you're wrong, but it looks like he has gotten everything he has asked for there. Babcock increased the basketball budget, gave him all of his contract demands (which Buzz wrote), gave him an extension, etc.
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Before Creen brought him to MU, Buzz' biggest name supporter was Billy Gillispie, a long time Texas HS coach who later handled TAMU and UK...then flamed out. Buzz was his assistant at TAMU. The TAMU job was a key career break upward for Buzz . My guess is Buzz remains fond of TAMU, and they of him.
I have no idea if he is considering leaving his success at VT, but Buzz is the epitome of being an Aggie. To a guy like Buzz TAMU would be the dream job, ...facilities, money, recruiting, SEC
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The level of hate for buzz on this forum is so unwarranted lol.
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And what are those? Not saying you're wrong, but it looks like he has gotten everything he has asked for there. Babcock increased the basketball budget, gave him all of his contract demands (which Buzz wrote), gave him an extension, etc.
MU bent over backwards for Bazz year after year. They finally put their foot in the ground one time and he was gone faster than Tanned Tommy could get "It's Indiana, It's Indiana" out of his mouth.
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And what are those? Not saying you're wrong, but it looks like he has gotten everything he has asked for there. Babcock increased the basketball budget, gave him all of his contract demands (which Buzz wrote), gave him an extension, etc.
https://virginiatech.sportswar.com/mid/10499853/board/vtbasketball/
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From the VT board...
His evaluation misses plus personality conflicts with his staff put him in a precarious position recruiting-wise for the next several seasons. VT will be facing at least two rebuilding seasons after this one whether or not Buzz leaves.
We'd much rather collect a modest buyout and shop for a new coach in 2019 that might actually come with some touted recruits than cross our fingers that Buzz rebuilds his staff and recruiting from their current state (ashes) while praying he doesn't fail, because his contract makes him unfireable.
When we hired Buzz, we had to sign away the farm re: contract and salary to get a NCAAT-caliber coach. Thanks to Buzz' success, we won't have to do that for the next coach. Buzz has laid the groundwork for us to make a 'normal' ACC hire (i.e. on par with how NCSU/Clemson/Miami/FSU/etc typically hire).
And Buzz would be VERY wise to cash out after a likely 3rd-consecutive NCAAT season, because VT is going to take a major step back after this season. And Buzz isn't even positioned to recruit his way out the mess, thanks to his eval/staff missteps. At a new school he can rebuild his staff from scratch, ride some 'new-hire' enthusiasm on the recruiting trail, and learn from his mistakes.
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https://virginiatech.sportswar.com/mid/10499853/board/vtbasketball/
from Hokiescoop:
This is the worst case scenario. The timing is bad. Buzz’s buyout is only about $1m right now (if I’m not mistaken), and the school pursuing him has a ton of resources and is in a state it’s no secret Buzz is interested in.
He flies a Texas flag at his home. If Whit lets him interviews he is gone. Buzz has ties to Texas and has indicated throughout his career his love for Texas and he has always been about the Benjamins. He complained at Marquette about his salary and always told them he was being pursued by other big name programs. He has done the same thing at Tech so much so that he is labeled as a complainer. A great coach and a master of Xs and Os but a very needy person. Time to start the search for a new coach
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Sounds like this shaped up perfectly for Buzz from a timing perspective. Also, sounds like a lot of the conversation here in his last season.
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I get that. But Buzz could have gone "home" to Texas in 2015; A&M in 2011 (after a Sweet 16); Oklahoma in 2011 (after a Sweet 16); OK State in 2016 or 2017; I know SMU reached out to him in 2012, but that was never a serious opportunity for him IMO.
I don't know. I guess I just don't see a reason for Buzz to currently "mess with (his) happy".
Those programs didn’t want him then so how could he go home?
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From the VT board...
His evaluation misses plus personality conflicts with his staff put him in a precarious position recruiting-wise for the next several seasons. VT will be facing at least two rebuilding seasons after this one whether or not Buzz leaves.
We'd much rather collect a modest buyout and shop for a new coach in 2019 that might actually come with some touted recruits than cross our fingers that Buzz rebuilds his staff and recruiting from their current state (ashes) while praying he doesn't fail, because his contract makes him unfireable.
When we hired Buzz, we had to sign away the farm re: contract and salary to get a NCAAT-caliber coach. Thanks to Buzz' success, we won't have to do that for the next coach. Buzz has laid the groundwork for us to make a 'normal' ACC hire (i.e. on par with how NCSU/Clemson/Miami/FSU/etc typically hire).
And Buzz would be VERY wise to cash out after a likely 3rd-consecutive NCAAT season, because VT is going to take a major step back after this season. And Buzz isn't even positioned to recruit his way out the mess, thanks to his eval/staff missteps. At a new school he can rebuild his staff from scratch, ride some 'new-hire' enthusiasm on the recruiting trail, and learn from his mistakes.
Sounds so so so similar.....
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The level of hate for buzz on this forum is so unwarranted lol.
Very good coach, his character was revealed....
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Damn Billy, for someone that joined the board in April 2016, that sure is a detailed narrative of how it played out! How were you tracking all of that at the time?
Yeah, tell us Billy.....you know EFR thinks you and I are the same person....makes me chuckle how wrong they are, but play along as they continue to chase their tails.
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Damn Billy, for someone that joined the board in April 2016, that sure is a detailed narrative of how it played out! How were you tracking all of that at the time?
I know, there's no other way for someone, let alone an MU alumnus, to know what goes on in coaching circles than the read MUScoop. I guess I just got lucky.
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From the VT board...
His evaluation misses plus personality conflicts with his staff put him in a precarious position recruiting-wise for the next several seasons. VT will be facing at least two rebuilding seasons after this one whether or not Buzz leaves.
We'd much rather collect a modest buyout and shop for a new coach in 2019 that might actually come with some touted recruits than cross our fingers that Buzz rebuilds his staff and recruiting from their current state (ashes) while praying he doesn't fail, because his contract makes him unfireable.
When we hired Buzz, we had to sign away the farm re: contract and salary to get a NCAAT-caliber coach. Thanks to Buzz' success, we won't have to do that for the next coach. Buzz has laid the groundwork for us to make a 'normal' ACC hire (i.e. on par with how NCSU/Clemson/Miami/FSU/etc typically hire).
And Buzz would be VERY wise to cash out after a likely 3rd-consecutive NCAAT season, because VT is going to take a major step back after this season. And Buzz isn't even positioned to recruit his way out the mess, thanks to his eval/staff missteps. At a new school he can rebuild his staff from scratch, ride some 'new-hire' enthusiasm on the recruiting trail, and learn from his mistakes.
If Vtech bows out early we could see him on CBS with his Aggie gear telling us how wonderful the BIG XII is and that he could not recruit in the ACC.
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If Vtech bows out early we could see him on CBS with his Aggie gear telling us how wonderful the BIG XII is and that he could not recruit in the ACC.
Will A&M use Scott Monarch's picture on their website too?
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If Vtech bows out early we could see him on CBS with his Aggie gear telling us how wonderful the BIG XII is and that he could not recruit in the ACC.
A&M would fire him if he started proclaiming how good the Big 12 is.
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TAMU will busy...
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TAMU will busy...
Now that is funny!
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If Vtech bows out early we could see him on CBS with his Aggie gear telling us how wonderful the BIG XII is and that he could not recruit in the ACC.
Your heart was in the right place.....
But A&M is in the SEC now. Second largest athletic budget in all the NCAA
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When I first heard this earlier today, Buzz to TAMU made sense.
Now it makes incredible sense.
He's got nothing coming back to VT ... he has reached his ceiling there - it will never be a perennial top-4 ACC program ... he's a Texan ... TAMU will pay him more ... he's a gypsy.
I am not a Buzz hater. I don't know nuthin' about the character issues except what I read here. (One Scooper promised to reveal all and still hasn't done so, to my knowledge.) The way he left, and the immediate aftermath, he was a turd, but I loved watching Buzz's first 5 MU teams play. Brought in two of my all-time faves in Jae and Jimmy, and stole Vander from F%cky. His sixth season might have been my most frustrating in 40 years of Marquette fandom, but his body of work was strong. Although I have been bullish on Wojo from the get-go, he isn't the coach Buzz is, not yet anyway.
So I have nothing against Buzz. I hope he goes to TAMU and enjoys a few great years there before he bolts for someplace else.
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Your heart was in the right place.....
But A&M is in the SEC now. Second largest athletic budget in all the NCAA
With all the Conference musical chairs and not a college football fan thanks for the correction.
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When I first heard this earlier today, Buzz to TAMU made sense.
Now it makes incredible sense.
He's got nothing coming back to VT ... he has reached his ceiling there - it will never be a perennial top-4 ACC program ... he's a Texan ... TAMU will pay him more ... he's a gypsy.
I am not a Buzz hater. I don't know nuthin' about the character issues except what I read here. (One Scooper promised to reveal all and still hasn't done so, to my knowledge.) The way he left, and the immediate aftermath, he was a turd, but I loved watching Buzz's first 5 MU teams play. Brought in two of my all-time faves in Jae and Jimmy, and stole Vander from F%cky. His sixth season might have been my most frustrating in 40 years of Marquette fandom, but his body of work was strong. Although I have been bullish on Wojo from the get-go, he isn't the coach Buzz is, not yet anyway.
So I have nothing against Buzz. I hope he goes to TAMU and enjoys a few great years there before he bolts for someplace else.
..but does Buzz hate MU? I hope not. After all we gave him a shot at being a Major D1 coach.
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..but does Buzz hate MU? I hope not. After all we gave him a shot at being a Major D1 coach.
I don't know, and I guess I don't really care. He doesn't affect us one iota.
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The level of hate for buzz on this forum is so unwarranted lol.
On the court? Yes. Off the court? Maybe not.
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TAMU will busy...
Ha! I do like to keep busy
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I’m targeting Nate Oats hard if I’m a high major in need of an upgrade. I think he’s the goods.
Would have figured the same, until...
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26265947/buffalo-agrees-5-year-extension-oats
Five year extension @ $837K/yr.
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I was at the ACC tourney this afternoon. After Fla State hit the tying 3 in the closing seconds, I ran to the men's room before OT.
Lots of angry VaTech fans in line beyotching about Buzz not ordering his guys to foul. I tried to explain that the guy had an incredibly quick release after catching the inbound pass and there wasn't time to foul him, but they wanted none of it.
After the game, as I walked out of the Spectrum Center, I heard one guy say, "Texas A&M can have him."
Funny stuff.
Related: IMHO, A&M would be lucky to get him.
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Same exact garbage. Gonna leave VaTech with absolutely nothing for the next few years.
Younger Larry Brown is a pretty funny comparison, but pretty accurate as well.
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After the game, as I walked out of the Spectrum Center, I heard one guy say, "Texas A&M can have him”
“I’ll stay as long as they’ll have me.”
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Shaka's 4 years in Texas ...
20-13 NCAA first round loss
11-22
19-15 NCAA first round loss
16-16
Tough being a genius nowadays.
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Would have figured the same, until...
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26265947/buffalo-agrees-5-year-extension-oats
Five year extension @ $837K/yr.
As long as the Buffalo assistants are available for us to hire for a possible vacancy, we should be fine.
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I was at the ACC tourney this afternoon. After Fla State hit the tying 3 in the closing seconds, I ran to the men's room before OT.
I see what you did there....clever.
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Washington State parting ways with men’s basketball coach Ernie Kent
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Same exact garbage. Gonna leave VaTech with absolutely nothing for the next few years.
Younger Larry Brown is a pretty funny comparison, but pretty accurate as well.
That is an interesting comparison. He loves being the new guy with everyone fawning all over him...but as soon as fans begin to question him, he pouts, burns a few bridges, and heads outta Dodge.
He may very well end his career with plenty of wins...and lots of former homes.
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Younger Larry Brown is a pretty funny comparison, but pretty accurate as well.
Larry Brown cheated his ass off....at home and in basketball.
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Washington State has to be the worst power conference job out there.
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Washington State has to be the worst power conference job out there.
It's up there Dish, no question, but some guys have had success for a brief stint there. Tony Bennett, George Raveling, Kelvin Sampson.
It has to be in the top 5 worst, might be number 1. Oregon State not much better, even if Ralph Miller had it going on there for many years. Cal and Nebraska in there somewhere.
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I would be surprised if Buzz left VT. There's no drama there right now and he is beloved to a level that one would argue is better than the current football head coach (obviously not Beamer). He got carte blanche in his contract deal (the same rollover clause - always under a five-year deal), and has been given all the resources he has asked for in order to be successful. He has elevated VT Basketball to the top level of the ACC - and, soon, Boeheim, Coach K and Roy Williams will all be stepping down, allowing him to be at the very top of the coaching ranks within, arguably, the best basketball conference in the country.
What, exactly, would A&M be able to offer Buzz that VT isn't already providing him? Buzz can essentially leave VT in a place where he is the face and recognized as the best coach in program history (where at a place at Marquette, you joined by a collection of outstanding coaches). Unless the offer him a Jimbo Fisher-sized deal, I guess I just don't see the attraction through his lens.
By top level of the ACC, do u mean 6th place?
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Same exact garbage. Gonna leave VaTech with absolutely nothing for the next few years.
Buzz and Corey when they leave a basketball program...
(https://i.gifer.com/Ausy.gif)
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Buzz and Corey when they leave a basketball program...
(https://i.gifer.com/Ausy.gif)
Awesome!
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if you want to follow the coaching carousel then I suggest HoopDirt.com (no, I am not affiliated).
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UNLV fires Marvin Menzies.
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Montana State fires Brian Fish
https://www.greatfallstribune.com/story/sports/2019/03/17/montana-state-university-fires-head-basketball-coach-brian-fish-18-march-2019/3196659002/
It would not surprise me if Stan was a finalist for this job.
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Montana State fires Brian Fish
https://www.greatfallstribune.com/story/sports/2019/03/17/montana-state-university-fires-head-basketball-coach-brian-fish-18-march-2019/3196659002/
It would not surprise me if Stan was a finalist for this job.
If I were Stan, I’d be waiting for something better than Bozeman, Montana.
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If I were Stan, I’d be waiting for something better than Bozeman, Montana.
Like where? Conferences like the Big Sky are where most new coaches get their start.
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So, earlier I caught up on this board and was curious what I might find on VT's board regarding Buzz. I am glad I was not drinking coffee when I read this post about who might replace Buzz......
https://virginiatech.sportswar.com/mid/11641318/board/vtbasketball/
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So, earlier I caught up on this board and was curious what I might find on VT's board regarding Buzz. I am glad I was not drinking coffee when I read this post about who might replace Buzz......
https://virginiatech.sportswar.com/mid/11641318/board/vtbasketball/
Mental illness...is not a laughing matter
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Will A&M use Scott Monarch's picture on their website too?
That photo mishap was the source of my sig. Maybe it's time I updated it?
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Montana State fires Brian Fish
https://www.greatfallstribune.com/story/sports/2019/03/17/montana-state-university-fires-head-basketball-coach-brian-fish-18-march-2019/3196659002/
It would not surprise me if Stan was a finalist for this job.
Last year you said the same for any medium sized school for Stan. We get it and see how this year goes.
Stan, if he even is looking for such a job, would do much better than a Montana State.
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Another school that might take a run at some of our assistants.
http://www.elonnewsnetwork.com/article/2019/03/elon-university-mens-basketball-head-coach-matt-matheny-fired
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So, earlier I caught up on this board and was curious what I might find on VT's board regarding Buzz. I am glad I was not drinking coffee when I read this post about who might replace Buzz......
https://virginiatech.sportswar.com/mid/11641318/board/vtbasketball/
From VTScoop:
https://247sports.com/college/virginia-tech/Reply/eamhokie94-Reply-130002177/
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I say Buzz is gone. It is always job security, at more money, being brought in to save the day. Guys on here will long to give Wojo five plus years to get things rolling. Buzz would three year no pressure window at A&M.
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Of course he’s gone. VT was never anything more than a pit stop on the way to his destination job
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Nickel
I think Buzz has two more jobs in him, barring no trouble with NCAA. He will land a couple of big, big scores before he is done.
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Nickel
I think Buzz has two more jobs in him, barring no trouble with NCAA. He will land a couple of big, big scores before he is done.
Agreed. A nice extended run at A&M with an eye on UK
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From VTScoop:
https://247sports.com/college/virginia-tech/Reply/eamhokie94-Reply-130002177/
That board looks identical to ours circa 2014.
“They can’t afford him”
“Why would he go to a football school?”
“He said he wants to build a program here”
Almost feel sorry for VT
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That board looks identical to ours circa 2014.
“They can’t afford him”
“Why would he go to a football school?”
“He said he wants to build a program here”
Almost feel sorry for VT
I don't know how old Buzz kids are now. My sense is that he and the missus would like a nice 6 year contract that would be able to keep the family in one place through the high school years. Tech would probably give him the years but I am sure TAMU could match and probably offer more coin if necessary. Buzz is very good at extracting top terms and dollars.
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SpaceforRent
It is the big leagues. Guys chase money these days. I am big Buzz guy, but he was gone from MU well before he was gone. I never fault a guy for chasing money.
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Will Jimbo’s contract affect the basketball hire or does that not even matter?
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Of course he’s gone. VT was never anything more than a pit stop on the way to his destination job
The lonesome cowboy is looking for that Golden Corral with Ghostriders in the Sky!
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Buzz and Corey when they leave a basketball program...
(https://i.gifer.com/Ausy.gif)
You win the gif of the day award. Well done.
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Wonder if his Blacksburg house is just as classy as his Milwaukee one was?
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Last year you said the same for any medium sized school for Stan. We get it and see how this year goes.
Stan, if he even is looking for such a job, would do much better than a Montana State.
Again where? Is Stan Johnson some type of under-the-radar hot coaching candidate? He was rumored for Fresno last year, but that never went anywhere.
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Like where? Conferences like the Big Sky are where most new coaches get their start.
Again where? Is Stan Johnson some type of under-the-radar hot coaching candidate? He was rumored for Fresno last year, but that never went anywhere.
He was a finalist for Fresno last year. My guess is is he will wait until there is a similar level of job before leaving. Honestly would be more suprised if he left for a Montana State type job than if he left for another assistant job at a bigger program.
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He was a finalist for Fresno last year. My guess is is he will wait until there is a similar level of job before leaving. Honestly would be more suprised if he left for a Montana State type job than if he left for another assistant job at a bigger program.
He is getting pretty good coin at MU as an assistant so hard to see him leaving for another assistant job .
Montana State is actually a popular school for kids to go to these days. They also have some decent facilities . So Stan might be able to make some noise in The Big Sky Conference.
At some point he needs to take a head coaching job or else he becomes a career assistant type.
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Last year you said the same for any medium sized school for Stan. We get it and see how this year goes.
Stan, if he even is looking for such a job, would do much better than a Montana State.
I don't know what motivates Stan. Maybe he wants to be a head coach, and he doesn't care where.
But one could make a pretty good case that, unless a really good HC job comes open for which he can be a serious candidate, being Wojo's top assistant is a good place to bide one's time until that job exists. Heck, he could do a lot worse than make the S16 as an assistant this year and the FF as an assistant next and then take over at MU when Wojo replaces K.
Ha ... easy for me to say!
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Phil Martelli Out as Saint Josephs Basketball Coach
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Goodman reported yesterday that Nebraska will be firing Tim Miles and Hoiberg is the frontrunner to replace him. No word on whether Fred Hoiberg is aware that he is the frontrunner at Nebraska.
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Speculation in local paper re: Sean Miller
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.azcentral.com/amp/3202186002
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Phil Martelli Out as Saint Josephs Basketball Coach
I am nowhere near Philly, nor do I follow this program. But I admit this surprised me. He seemed like an institution there.
Here is the school's statement:
Coach Phil Martelli stands among out among his peers in college basketball not only for his long tenure and the many accolades that he and his teams have achieved, but also for his engagement with the community and his service as an ambassador for SJU. The University recognizes and celebrates the history and heart that Coach Martelli brought to the program and thanks him for his long service, dedication and stewardship.
Ipso fatso, we're celebrating your history by firing your arse.
FYI, that last sentence wasn't part of the official statement.
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Speculation in local paper re: Sean Miller
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.azcentral.com/amp/3202186002
What's taking so long?
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Speculation in local paper re: Sean Miller
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.azcentral.com/amp/3202186002
Brother Herm, here's the questions on this one:
1) Would Nico Mannion reconsider staying at Arizona if Miller et al are fired?
2) Assuming Miller was fired and the circumstances associated with his firing, would Mannion be immediately eligible?
3) Is the recruitment of Mannion under scrutiny as well?
4) If Arizona is placed on probation with our without Miller, does Mannion immediately become eligible?
5) Do we need him?
6) Do we want him?
As I recall, Nico was a five-star and we were like number 2 behind Arizona to get him. I admit however that my memory may be off slightly.
This poses both an opportunity and a challenge for Wojo. We appear to have a very good team going into next year. If Koby McEwen is the real deal (and I suspect he is) and Greg Elliott comes back stronger than ever, we have a crowded back court.
What do you fellow Scoopers think about this one?
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5. No
6. Yes, you don't turn down 5* recruits, however, until/if he gets released from his LOI none of it matters.
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Brother Herm, here's the questions on this one:
1) Would Nico Mannion reconsider staying at Arizona if Miller et al are fired?
2) Assuming Miller was fired and the circumstances associated with his firing, would Mannion be immediately eligible?
3) Is the recruitment of Mannion under scrutiny as well?
4) If Arizona is placed on probation with our without Miller, does Mannion immediately become eligible?
5) Do we need him?
6) Do we want him?
As I recall, Nico was a five-star and we were like number 2 behind Arizona to get him. I admit however that my memory may be off slightly.
This poses both an opportunity and a challenge for Wojo. We appear to have a very good team going into next year. If Koby McEwen is the real deal (and I suspect he is) and Greg Elliott comes back stronger than ever, we have a crowded back court.
What do you fellow Scoopers think about this one?
Sure, I'll play the Hypothetical Situation Game ...
Bring in the best talent possible (as long as there are no red flags re behavioral problems, and that doesn't seem to be the case with Nico), and everything will work itself out.
If Nico's arrival leads others to transfer or grad transfer, then thank the departed for their excellent service and wish them well.
And then go win a national title.
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In the unlikely (I think) situation that Markus decides to go pro, Nico would step and we would hardly miss a beat.
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I just don't know where all the "if Markus leaves" talk is coming from?? I mean for cripes sakes he didn't even put his name in last year to get an evaluation from scouts etc. He's a smart kid...he knows he isn't NBA ready, and he and Sam are best friends..They are going to finish what they started.
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I just don't know where all the "if Markus leaves" talk is coming from?? I mean for cripes sakes he didn't even put his name in last year to get an evaluation from scouts etc. He's a smart kid...he knows he isn't NBA ready, and he and Sam are best friends..They are going to finish what they started.
There are many reasons why he would come back... "he and Sam are best friends..They are going to finish what they started" is very low on the list
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I am nowhere near Philly, nor do I follow this program. But I admit this surprised me. He seemed like an institution there.
Here is the school's statement:
Coach Phil Martelli stands among out among his peers in college basketball not only for his long tenure and the many accolades that he and his teams have achieved, but also for his engagement with the community and his service as an ambassador for SJU. The University recognizes and celebrates the history and heart that Coach Martelli brought to the program and thanks him for his long service, dedication and stewardship.
Ipso fatso, we're celebrating your history by firing your arse.
FYI, that last sentence wasn't part of the official statement.
Newish AD trying to make her mark.
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There are many reasons why he would come back... "he and Sam are best friends..They are going to finish what they started" is very low on the list
And your basis for saying that is.....
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Speculation in local paper re: Sean Miller
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.azcentral.com/amp/3202186002
All this is so intriguing. Self and Miller were caught red handed, just like Wade at LSU. Self and Miller are still coaching, Wade is not.
This reeks of special treatment for the blue bloods.
If they are indeed also on wiretap, give both Arizona and Kansas the death penalty for doing nothing, despite evidence of wrongdoing. Give LSU a more lenient treatment for doing something about it right away.
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All this is so intriguing. Self and Miller were caught red handed, just like Wade at LSU. Self and Miller are still coaching, Wade is not.
This reeks of special treatment for the blue bloods.
If they are indeed also on wiretap, give both Arizona and Kansas the death penalty for doing nothing, despite evidence of wrongdoing. Give LSU a more lenient treatment for doing something about it right away.
Wade's suspension is directly from LSU for not complying with an NCAA investigation, which is a specific clause in his contract.
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Brother Herm, here's the questions on this one:
1) Would Nico Mannion reconsider staying at Arizona if Miller et al are fired?
2) Assuming Miller was fired and the circumstances associated with his firing, would Mannion be immediately eligible?
3) Is the recruitment of Mannion under scrutiny as well?
4) If Arizona is placed on probation with our without Miller, does Mannion immediately become eligible?
5) Do we need him?
6) Do we want him?
As I recall, Nico was a five-star and we were like number 2 behind Arizona to get him. I admit however that my memory may be off slightly.
This poses both an opportunity and a challenge for Wojo. We appear to have a very good team going into next year. If Koby McEwen is the real deal (and I suspect he is) and Greg Elliott comes back stronger than ever, we have a crowded back court.
What do you fellow Scoopers think about this one?
If Nico reopens his recruitment I would expect Stan and Wojo would be pushing hard to land him.
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All this is so intriguing. Self and Miller were caught red handed, just like Wade at LSU. Self and Miller are still coaching, Wade is not.
This reeks of special treatment for the blue bloods.
If they are indeed also on wiretap, give both Arizona and Kansas the death penalty for doing nothing, despite evidence of wrongdoing. Give LSU a more lenient treatment for doing something about it right away.
Why, LSU imposed the suspension...their choice. UA and KU could do the same. NCAA is still in fact finding mode, so no special treatment thus far.
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Buzz to AZ or KU?
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All this is so intriguing. Self and Miller were caught red handed, just like Wade at LSU. Self and Miller are still coaching, Wade is not.
This reeks of special treatment for the blue bloods.
If they are indeed also on wiretap, give both Arizona and Kansas the death penalty for doing nothing, despite evidence of wrongdoing. Give LSU a more lenient treatment for doing something about it right away.
Wait until April when Miller, who has been subpoenaed, has to testify in federal court. Defense will play wiretap recordings with Miller discussing payments, then bye-bye. NCAA will probably make recommendations subsequent.
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Wait until April when Miller, who has been subpoenaed, has to testify in federal court. Defense will play wiretap recordings with Miller discussing payments, then bye-bye. NCAA will probably make recommendations subsequent.
Not necessarily. Depending on what's testified to during trial, those purported recordings may never be admitted into evidence. And subpoenaed or not, Miller may not testify. The Firth Amendment remains a viable (if not likely) option.
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Not necessarily. Depending on what's testified to during trial, those purported recordings may never be admitted into evidence. And subpoenaed or not, Miller may not testify. The Firth Amendment remains a viable (if not likely) option.
This....I'd bet dollars to donuts he pleads the 5th.
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Not necessarily. Depending on what's testified to during trial, those purported recordings may never be admitted into evidence. And subpoenaed or not, Miller may not testify. The Firth Amendment remains a viable (if not likely) option.
An evidence hearing has probably already been heard considering trial month away. Miller, even if subpoenaed can still sit on the stand and listen, but refuse to testify, which very seldom happens in court. That would not be a good thing for him and his career would be over, tapes or no tapes. The tapes can be presented without Miller going on the stand and be introduced by either prosecution or defense witnesses. Either way, the actual tapes have not been made public, everything is speculative, and if they do contain NCAA coaches incriminating themselves, they soon will be public in this trial. Can't wait to hear the particulars of these case and that is when the walls start coming down. Actual evidence.
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And your basis for saying that is.....
because he isn't going pro because he can't get guaranteed nba $$$.
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This....I'd bet dollars to donuts he pleads the 5th.
He may very well do that but even the most ardent UofA and Miller fan knows he will be fired for taking the 5th. Could be the right strategy to get a settlement with Arizona though.
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If Nico reopens his recruitment I would expect Stan and Wojo would be pushing hard to land him.
Nico being projected as a 1 and Done and Duke probably losing T Jones to the NBA he's going to where the Bells & Whistles are.
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Buzz had friends in the media to speculate on his behalf.
TC had has no friends so he had has to "leak" BS by himself.
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An evidence hearing has probably already been heard considering trial month away. Miller, even if subpoenaed can still sit on the stand and listen, but refuse to testify, which very seldom happens in court. That would not be a good thing for him and his career would be over, tapes or no tapes. The tapes can be presented without Miller going on the stand and be introduced by either prosecution or defense witnesses. Either way, the actual tapes have not been made public, everything is speculative, and if they do contain NCAA coaches incriminating themselves, they soon will be public in this trial. Can't wait to hear the particulars of these case and that is when the walls start coming down. Actual evidence.
no to drone on about legal stuff, but I wouldn't say it's seldom that a person implicated in a criminal conspiracy or portrayed as an unindicted co-conspirator takes the Fifth.
And I don't see how Miller's situation gets worse by invoking his Fifth Amendment right when the alternative is admitting he was paying players or perjuring himself. Of the three options, it's the least likely to not be a career-killer.
As for the tapes, it's worth noting that the government chose not to introduce the texts involving Self, but rather it was the defense, in an effort to downplay their client's involvement. Judging by that, the government may not want to introduce the purported Miller tapes.
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no to drone on about legal stuff, but I wouldn't say it's seldom that a person implicated in a criminal conspiracy or portrayed as an unindicted co-conspirator takes the Fifth.
And I don't see how Miller's situation gets worse by invoking his Fifth Amendment right when the alternative is admitting he was paying players or perjuring himself. Of the three options, it's the least likely to not be a career-killer.
As for the tapes, it's worth noting that the government chose not to introduce the texts involving Self, but rather it was the defense, in an effort to downplay their client's involvement. Judging by that, the government may not want to introduce the purported Miller tapes.
I let your opinion be, not sure if you have/had prosecutorial experience. I am very aware of the entire case and who requested what matters be entered as evidence.
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Shaka's 4 years in Texas ...
20-13 NCAA first round loss
11-22
19-15 NCAA first round loss
16-16
Tough being a genius nowadays.
Thank god he's married to that uptight snob, Maya.
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Thank god he's married to that uptight snob, Maya.
She musta figured it'll be more fun getting run out of Austin than Milwaukee....
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no to drone on about legal stuff, but I wouldn't say it's seldom that a person implicated in a criminal conspiracy or portrayed as an unindicted co-conspirator takes the Fifth.
And I don't see how Miller's situation gets worse by invoking his Fifth Amendment right when the alternative is admitting he was paying players or perjuring himself. Of the three options, it's the least likely to not be a career-killer.
As for the tapes, it's worth noting that the government chose not to introduce the texts involving Self, but rather it was the defense, in an effort to downplay their client's involvement. Judging by that, the government may not want to introduce the purported Miller tapes.
Since Miller has publicly and by all reports privately sworn he has done nothing wrong, pleading the 5th would undermine his credibility. This is not my opinion; UofA reporters have indicated their sources have said taking the 5th would be the end of Miller's tenure. But to your point, taking the 5th can keep him out of jail and leave open the opportunity for a job at another school.
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Thank god he's married to that uptight snob, Maya.
66-66 after 4 years at Texas' landmark university. Zero tourney wins. Three straight seasons with losing conference records. Two seasons without winning overall records. 16-16 in Year 4.
A good chunk of Scoop wants Wojo fired; how would they have handled that?
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Since Miller has publicly and by all reports privately sworn he has done nothing wrong, pleading the 5th would undermine his credibility. This is not my opinion; UofA reporters have indicated their sources have said taking the 5th would be the end of Miller's tenure. But to your point, taking the 5th can keep him out of jail and leave open the opportunity for a job at another school.
Lost credibility vs federal indictment for perjury or conspiracy.
Which would you choose?
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She musta figured it'll be more fun getting run out of Austin than Milwaukee....
She can change her BBQ order, "Make that to go..."
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Lost credibility vs federal indictment for perjury or conspiracy.
Which would you choose?
Lol. Easy choice. Crean to Arizona!
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Lol. Easy choice. Crean to Arizona!
He'd still bring his tanning bed. The real sun doesn't give provide the right orange-ish glow.
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Goodman reported yesterday that Nebraska will be firing Tim Miles and Hoiberg is the frontrunner to replace him. No word on whether Fred Hoiberg is aware that he is the frontrunner at Nebraska.
Per the guy that was the first to report on Scott Frost to Neb, I guess this is a #donedeal. Kinda surprising, I would have thought Hoiberg could do better. It’ll be interesting to see the $$
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Hoiberg has ties to Nebraska.
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Hoiberg has ties to Nebraska.
Ahh okay that makes more sense then. And good for Nebraska, that's two home run coaching hires for their programs based on guys with ties.
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His grandfather was the head coach there in the 50s and his parents are both alumni. He has extended family in the state too.
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Nebraska really isn’t a bad gig. Sure it’s a football school, but great resources, good fan base. You can certainly win there.
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Nebraska really isn’t a bad gig. Sure it’s a football school, but great resources, good fan base. You can certainly win there.
I agree. Furthermore pressure won’t be huge.
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Ex-NBA player Mike Miller could be ideal fit for UNLV
https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/sports-columns/ed-graney/ex-nba-player-mike-miller-could-be-ideal-fit-for-unlv-1622953/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
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Ex-NBA player Mike Miller could be ideal fit for UNLV
https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/sports-columns/ed-graney/ex-nba-player-mike-miller-could-be-ideal-fit-for-unlv-1622953/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
I can't for a second think that would be a good idea. He's been a college assistant for less than a year, and the idea that recruits would be interested in him because he played with Lebron James? I don't he has a good understanding of how the recruiting process works.
That being said, Porter Moser would be a terrible choice too.
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The UNLV fan base is delusional. Six weeks ago the rumor was the athletic department was talking to Pitino. A few weeks later they were supposedly talking to Thad Motta...
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I can't for a second think that would be a good idea. He's been a college assistant for less than a year, and the idea that recruits would be interested in him because he played with Lebron James? I don't he has a good understanding of how the recruiting process works.
That being said, Porter Moser would be a terrible choice too.
He’s well connected in the AAU scene. Also, Miller’s older brother is the associate HC at TCU under Jamie Dixon. He was on Calipari’s staff at Memphis and at New Mexico under Alford. Also was at UNLV recently. They are supposed to be a package deal. So I would imagine Mike Miller knows how the game works. And he has a good X&Os guy and experienced assistant to help.
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Avery Johnson out at Bama.
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Avery Johnson out at Bama.
Bama let him run the show for four years, didn't do much, now they can him. Was making 3M per year.
Losing to Norfolk State in NIT was not good for him. Even though a football school, still in the SEC and will be coveted by a lot of potential coaches. Same with LSU after Wade is canned.
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Drew out after 3 years at Vandy. Wow.
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Drew out after 3 years at Vandy. Wow.
How will their program ever recover
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How will their program ever recover
If they keep changing coaches every three years, they never will. They should be realistic about who they are
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Stupid of Vandy, Drew was signing some big time recruits.
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Drew out after 3 years at Vandy. Wow.
Vanderbilt was 0-19 in the SEC this year. That's why Bryce Drew was fired.
If one of our coaches had a season like that, we wouldn't fire him. We'd burn him at the stake.
Vandy basketball fans do not have the expectations we do but their expectations are far higher than what Drew has been able to do in his three years there.
Sorry to see him go but I have a big warm spot in my heart for Vandy basketball and I'm sorrier that they've fallen to this depth.
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If they keep changing coaches every three years, they never will. They should be realistic about who they are
That's been a weird little carousel of good but not great programs and what seems to be a lack of direction. Pitt fires Dixon, who always did well there. Dixon goes to TCU and does about as well as TCU can probably hope to do. Pitt replaces Dixon with Stallings (I think you would have been hard pressed to find people that thought Stallings was a better coach than Dixon, even at the time). Stallings had done well at Vandy, but he flames out in tremendous fashion at Pitt. Now Vandy in kind of a tough spot - you just cannot lose every conference game in your third year and expect to keep your job. But is Vandy going to do much better than a young coach with a good pedigree like Bryce Drew?
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A bit of a surprise, yet the AD is not the one who hired Drew.
Pitt never fired Dixon. He left for TCU.
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Would Wojo go to Alabama for $3 million a year? Enquiring minds want to know?
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Tulane dumped Mike Dunleavy. Will Nobal Days stay committed there?
https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2019/03/16/mike-dunleavy-fired-tulane-university-american-athletic-conference
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Tulane dumped Mike Dunleavy. Will Nobal Days stay committed there?
https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2019/03/16/mike-dunleavy-fired-tulane-university-american-athletic-conference
Days has said he's still committed to Tulane.
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That's been a weird little carousel of good but not great programs and what seems to be a lack of direction. Pitt fires Dixon, who always did well there. Dixon goes to TCU and does about as well as TCU can probably hope to do. Pitt replaces Dixon with Stallings (I think you would have been hard pressed to find people that thought Stallings was a better coach than Dixon, even at the time). Stallings had done well at Vandy, but he flames out in tremendous fashion at Pitt. Now Vandy in kind of a tough spot - you just cannot lose every conference game in your third year and expect to keep your job. But is Vandy going to do much better than a young coach with a good pedigree like Bryce Drew?
Stallings had mixed results at Vandy. He was set to be fired and jumped when Pitt shockingly offered. Stallings was good at x’s and o’s and player development. He was not a good recruiter. He by all accounts relied heavily on a few different assistants over the years for that. Stallings often had the attitude that Vandy was lucky to have him. Vandy wanted better more even success. Stallings of course in NCAA’s one year lost to...wait for it...Murray St. with a big slow Vandy team that got spread out by the Racers speed and ability to knock down shots. A few years of really strong regular seasons that ended in early NCAA upsets due to bad matchups.
Drew situation is unusual.
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Herman
He would be silly not to. Only thing sillier, would be Bama making that offer. We all know he is next coach at Duke.
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Stallings had mixed results at Vandy. He was set to be fired and jumped when Pitt shockingly offered. Stallings was good at x’s and o’s and player development. He was not a good recruiter. He by all accounts relied heavily on a few different assistants over the years for that. Stallings often had the attitude that Vandy was lucky to have him. Vandy wanted better more even success. Stallings of course in NCAA’s one year lost to...wait for it...Murray St. with a big slow Vandy team that got spread out by the Racers speed and ability to knock down shots. A few years of really strong regular seasons that ended in early NCAA upsets due to bad matchups.
Drew situation is unusual.
Stallings arrived at PITT, believe 10 of the 12 players then left and he recruited no one. Very short tenure as coach.
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Stallings arrived at PITT, believe 10 of the 12 players then left and he recruited no one. Very short tenure as coach.
Stallings is the guy Chico wanted instead of Buzz. Established coach. Bad, but established. Which is nice.
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Stallings is the guy Chico wanted instead of Buzz. Established coach. Bad, but established. Which is nice.
My best friend is a PITT diehard and he told me that Stallings was a complete jerk just weeks into his stint. Then, one by one, the players left, no players were recruited and PITT has had just a brutal record the past three years. Just brutal.
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Stallings is the guy Chico wanted instead of Buzz. Established coach. Bad, but established. Which is nice.
Stallings wasn’t necessarily bad at Vandy. He beat Buzz twice. Until the end of his tenure at Vandy he was a regular NCAA participant.
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Stallings is a better actor than coach. Was pretty good in Zodiac
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Texas A and M job description:
https://hoopdirt.com/job/head-mens-basketball-coach-texas-university/
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Stallings is the guy Chico wanted instead of Buzz. Established coach. Bad, but established. Which is nice.
Yup, guy with almost 500 wins. And when I wanted him, among others, he was doing just fine. Two time SEC Coach of the year, two time MVC coach of the year. Yup, what a terrible choice....almost as bad as simply sweeping a rape under the rug but since you liked the coach it was ok and should just be ignore. Nothing to see here....
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Yup, guy with almost 500 wins. And when I wanted him, among others, he was doing just fine. Two time SEC Coach of the year, two time MVC coach of the year. Yup, what a terrible choice....almost as bad as simply sweeping a rape under the rug but since you liked the coach it was ok and should just be ignore. Nothing to see here....
"Sweeping rape under the rug" slander and lies notwithstanding, What's Stallings record since 2008-09? What's Buzz's? The real reason you hate him is he eclipsed TC at MU and made a fool out of your opposition to his hiring. #Phony Outrage
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"Sweeping rape under the rug" slander and lies notwithstanding, What's Stallings record since 2008-09? What's Buzz's? The real reason you hate him is he eclipsed TC at MU and made a fool out of your opposition to his hiring. #Phony Outrage
Not slander and lies. Just because it didn't get convicted does not mean it did not happen
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Slow to get it going, before Stallings’ 5th season at Vandy, he was told by then Chancellor Gordon Gee that he needed to make the NCAA Tourney that season or he would be fired. Stallings was very upset at this. But, he made the tourney, kept his job a long time. He tried to land Big Ten state school jobs earlier on while at Vandy. A Purdue guy, he tried for Ohio St. once. He even said he would have gone to Indiana if considered, (he wasn’t) but eventually he realized he had a good thing at Vandy, little pressure. However, Vandy has changed where expectations are higher than what he was producing. He had some very good seasons, but his results were way too uneven over time. His dream job was North Carolina. He cashed out at Pitt while his son (UNC) was a minor league catcher for the Pittsburgh Pirates organization.
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"Sweeping rape under the rug" slander and lies notwithstanding, What's Stallings record since 2008-09? What's Buzz's? The real reason you hate him is he eclipsed TC at MU and made a fool out of your opposition to his hiring. #Phony Outrage
Slander and lies....uhm....no. Sorry, I care about how he treated people (TC didn't treat people well either), and the damage he did to the school, how unprofessional his final year was and his comments on his way out. #characterrevealed Remind me about Buzz's Final Four again at MU, or anywhere for that matter.
Stallings, when Crean left, was coming off a 26-8 season and 3rd in the SEC. The year prior to that he finished 2nd in the SEC. Yes, he was a very good coach and at the top of his game. The next four years he averaged 23 wins a year and went to the NCAA tournament 3 of those years. At a school that is a bitch to get into and has to take on schools in his conference where a pulse will suffice. Stallings was a well regarded coach, ESPECIALLY in 2008 when we were looking to hire. He couldn't just recruit anyone because of Vanderbilt's standards.
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Not slander and lies. Just because it didn't get convicted does not mean it did not happen
Shhh....
But as I said before the tournament started, Buzzard has a cakewalk to the Sweet 16, even if Mississippi State won, which they didn't. An absolute cake walk.
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Shhh....
But as I said before the tournament started, Buzzard has a cakewalk to the Sweet 16, even if Mississippi State won, which they didn't. An absolute cake walk.
Crapshoot, aina?
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Crapshoot, aina?
Yup, possible....but poorly seeded teams for them. Definitely no screw job, but would love to see Liberty beat them (won't happen).
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Yup, possible....but poorly seeded teams for them. Definitely no screw job, but would love to see Liberty beat them (won't happen).
Buzz and Ritchie are buddies. Will be interesting.
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Rooting for Buzz to go all the way to the final four. Will be interesting to see how much coin he can generate off that
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Not slander and lies. Just because it didn't get convicted does not mean it did not happen
Not convicted? How about not charged? This is the one time in his entire life Chico has swallowed the accusation = guilty line. Reason? Buzz coached the kids who were accused. Period. #Hypocrite (not you Galway, I know you're a #MeToo guy - but Chico - LOL)
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Not convicted? How about not charged? This is the one time in his entire life Chico has swallowed the accusation = guilty line. Reason? Buzz coached the kids who were accused. Period. #Hypocrite (not you Galway, I know you're a #MeToo guy - but Chico - LOL)
Not charged whatever it did happen there are plenty of assaults and rapes that there's nothing charged. It was pre era of getting a conviction when there was any alcohol involved, at that point in time I'm not shocked neither girl went ahead with it especially when MU had already botched it. To the extent of cover up vs total ineptitude I don't know.
I do agree you've succeeded at pointing out a bit of hypocrisy here on his part.
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Yup, guy with almost 500 wins. And when I wanted him, among others, he was doing just fine. Two time SEC Coach of the year, two time MVC coach of the year. Yup, what a terrible choice....almost as bad as simply sweeping a rape under the rug but since you liked the coach it was ok and should just be ignore. Nothing to see here....
Stallings was solid if uneven at Vandy. They had highs and lows. Defeated the number one team in the country a few times, including back to back years. But they also lost twice to 13 seeds in NCAA’s and once to a 12 seed. It took him 5 years to get it going and make the NCAA’s. 1 for 7, then 2 for 8. But those two were Sweet 16’s. Had a great game one year vs Georgetown and was close to elite 8. He was chummy with Rick Byrd over at Belmont. He spent six figures of his own money to help pay for a Vandy trip to Australia, forgoing a raise. 7 tor 17 NCAA’s. So he had them going about every other year after getting it going. But it had been a while since thise sweet 16’s. Won a conference tourney once. He had a little bit of roster turnover with a few players later in his time there. He’s a good x’s and o’s coach. He understands offensive basketball. Defense was not a strength nor was recruiting. But he overall did a “solid” job at Vandy.
It will be interesting to see who Vandy gets to replace Drew.
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Stallings was solid if uneven at Vandy. They had highs and lows. Defeated the number one team in the country a few times, including back to back years. But they also lost twice to 13 seeds in NCAA’s and once to a 12 seed. It took him 5 years to get it going and make the NCAA’s. 1 for 7, then 2 for 8. But those two were Sweet 16’s. Had a great game one year vs Georgetown and was close to elite 8. He was chummy with Rick Byrd over at Belmont. He spent six figures of his own money to help pay for a Vandy trip to Australia, forgoing a raise. 7 tor 17 NCAA’s. So he had them going about every other year after getting it going. But it had been a while since thise sweet 16’s. Won a conference tourney once. He had a little bit of roster turnover with a few players later in his time there. He’s a good x’s and o’s coach. He understands offensive basketball. Defense was not a strength nor was recruiting. But he overall did a “solid” job at Vandy.
It will be interesting to see who Vandy gets to replace Drew.
After thinking about it, I wonder if the new AD already has someone in mind. Obviously a bad year for Bryce Drew but if Garland stays healthy, it’s a different season.
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Cal fires Wyking Jones, speculation is Kidd is going back to his alma mater, to be their next coach.
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Not convicted? How about not charged? This is the one time in his entire life Chico has swallowed the accusation = guilty line. Reason? Buzz coached the kids who were accused. Period. #Hypocrite (not you Galway, I know you're a #MeToo guy - but Chico - LOL)
Kobe didn't rape that girl in Colorado either, but magically her bank account exploded by millions of dollars. Settlements are interesting....
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Kobe didn't rape that girl in Colorado either, but magically her bank account exploded by millions of dollars. Settlements are interesting....
Ruining lives with unproven allegations ...
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Ruining lives with unproven allegations ...
He didn't tweet it though so its all good.
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Ruining lives with unproven allegations ...
The settlement was for being a bad guest at the hotel apparently....
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Not convicted? How about not charged? This is the one time in his entire life Chico has swallowed the accusation = guilty line. Reason? Buzz coached the kids who were accused. Period. #Hypocrite (not you Galway, I know you're a #MeToo guy - but Chico - LOL)
Ruining lives with unproven allegations ...
You guys both cracked me up!
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And now it's official:
Jon Rothstein @JonRothstein
Sources: Nebraska has parted ways with Tim Miles.
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Cal fires Wyking Jones, speculation is Kidd is going back to his alma mater, to be their next coach.
I thought that was out because he never obtained his degree. Sounded like that may be a prereq for the job from what I read.
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I thought that was out because he never obtained his degree. Sounded like that may be a prereq for the job from what I read.
Kidd will likely wait to get the Lakers job. The degree thing is a major impediment too. Turner from UCI makes a ton of sense for that job. The top candidate is probalby Randy Bennett. Is this the job he leaves St. Mary's for?
Dave Rose out at BYU. A very shallow pool of candidates since one has to be LDS to be hired there. It's basically Mark Pope and Mark Pope.
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You guys both cracked me up!
Pakuni liked settlements in the past when they covered bad behavior as a remedy....there are other examples. Again, apparently Kobe was just a bad hotel guest so he settled with the woman, the non-owner of the hotel. LOL
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=49004.msg767279#msg767279
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Pakuni liked settlements in the past when they covered bad behavior as a remedy....there are other examples. Again, apparently Kobe was just a bad hotel guest so he settled with the woman, the non-owner of the hotel. LOL
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=49004.msg767279#msg767279
Must you ruin every thread?
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Pakuni liked settlements in the past when they covered bad behavior as a remedy....there are other examples. Again, apparently Kobe was just a bad hotel guest so he settled with the woman, the non-owner of the hotel. LOL
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=49004.msg767279#msg767279
I know you're smarter then this Chicos...Companies/wealthy people "settle" all the time to save themselves from bad publicity, a court hearing etc. It does NOT always mean the person/place was guilty of something..in a lot of instances, it is just easier for the company to give the person some $$ to make it go away.
The NFL "settled" with Kaepernick, but that doesn't mean they colluded(they didn't). It just got to the point where they would rather have it just go away, then deal with it anymore...what's a few million to an entity like them anyway??
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Must you ruin every thread?
I was going to ask you the same thing....so its ok for you on countless occasions to say settlements are typically conducive repayment for bad behavior, but when I suggest the same thing it is wrong. Notice a bit of inconsistency?
Look, Pak, I like you a lot....smart guy, good poster, good fan....but glass houses man.
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I know you're smarter then this Chicos...Companies/wealthy people "settle" all the time to save themselves from bad publicity, a court hearing etc. It does NOT always mean the person/place was guilty of something..in a lot of instances, it is just easier for the company to give the person some $$ to make it go away.
The NFL "settled" with Kaepernick, but that doesn't mean they colluded(they didn't). It just got to the point where they would rather have it just go away, then deal with it anymore...what's a few million to an entity like them anyway??
Yes, that is true for some things, 100% agree. What is also true is companies, individuals, universities go into settlement mode because they don't want the bad PR, don't want discovery process in a trial, and are attempting to limit their losses. I know you are smart enough to also recognize this, Guru.
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Let me know when a worthwhile coaching carousel thread opens
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Mike Anderson out at Arkansas. 5 openings currently in the SEC
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Of the seven programs in the SEC that did not make the tournament this year, it is likely that five of them will be looking at new coaching hires by the end of this Spring (including LSU). Of the two that will not be replaced, one recently went to a Final Four (Frank Martin) and the other was hired last year (Tom Crean).
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Mike Anderson out at Arkansas. 5 openings currently in the SEC
Man, the guy made 3 NCAAs and 2 NITs in 8 years. Fired after making the NIT this year. Now there’s a program that holds its coach accountable.
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Of the seven programs in the SEC that did not make the tournament this year, it is likely that five of them will be looking at new coaching hires by the end of this Spring (including LSU). Of the two that will not be replaced, one recently went to a Final Four (Frank Martin) and the other was hired last year (Tom Crean).
Frank Martin may not be at South Carolina much longer. He's managed a winning conference record only 3 times in 7 seasons -- while making the NCAA tournament just once.
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Man, the guy made 3 NCAAs and 2 NITs in 8 years. Fired after making the NIT this year. Now there’s a program that holds its coach accountable.
I guess
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Man, the guy made 3 NCAAs and 2 NITs in 8 years. Fired after making the NIT this year. Now there’s a program that holds its coach accountable.
Or maybe there's more to the story? Not saying there is, just that this seems weird.
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Anderson has been trending downward for a couple of years.
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Man, the guy made 3 NCAAs and 2 NITs in 8 years. Fired after making the NIT this year. Now there’s a program that holds its coach accountable.
Last three seasons:
26-10 (12-6), second round exit, #35 KenPom, #36 recruiting class
23-12 (10-8), first round exit, #44 KenPom, #38 recruiting class
18-16 (8-10), NIT, #55 KenPom, #135 recruiting class
Do you detect a trend?
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Or maybe there's more to the story? Not saying there is, just that this seems weird.
Nothing weird about it...this is EXACTLY what it looks like when an administration has high expectations for their BB program...when those expectations aren't met, the Coach loses his job. MU's administration could learn a lot from this, instead I bet they see this, are scratching their heads going..."what the hell, the guy went to 3 NCAA's, and two NIT's..what more do they want?? That's right in line with our expectations here".
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Mike Anderson out at Arkansas. 5 openings currently in the SEC
and 4 Sweet 16 teams. Feast or famine.
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Nothing weird about it...this is EXACTLY what it looks like when an administration has high expectations for their BB program...when those expectations aren't met, the Coach loses his job. MU's administration could learn a lot from this, instead I bet they see this, are scratching their heads going..."what the hell, the guy went to 3 NCAA's, and two NIT's..what more do they want?? That's right in line with our expectations here".
I bet that’s what they’re thinking exactly.
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Nothing weird about it...this is EXACTLY what it looks like when an administration has high expectations for their BB program...when those expectations aren't met, the Coach loses his job. MU's administration could learn a lot from this, instead I bet they see this, are scratching their heads going..."what the hell, the guy went to 3 NCAA's, and two NIT's..what more do they want?? That's right in line with our expectations here".
Will you stop ranting for once and use an ounce of common sense? Wojo just got his team to a 5-seed. Anderson has been trending downward for three years as Pakuni pointed out. Clearly programs that aren't alike at all.
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Last three seasons:
26-10 (12-6), second round exit, #35 KenPom, #36 recruiting class
23-12 (10-8), first round exit, #44 KenPom, #38 recruiting class
18-16 (8-10), NIT, #55 KenPom, #135 recruiting class
Do you detect a trend?
I don't know...how were the last 5-6 games of this past season? That's what we'd need to know to determine a trend.
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Last three seasons:
26-10 (12-6), second round exit, #35 KenPom, #36 recruiting class
23-12 (10-8), first round exit, #44 KenPom, #38 recruiting class
18-16 (8-10), NIT, #55 KenPom, #135 recruiting class
Do you detect a trend?
Yes, the trend is not very dissimiliar from MU's last 3 seasons, in different order, but not much different. I wish people would stop looking at "trend lines" etc...and just look at REAL results...ignore everything else and look at Wojo's last three years..
19-13 (10-8) first round exit Kenpom #97
21-14 (9-9) NIT Kenpom #53
24-10 (12-6) first round exit #32
Sure, the record has gotten better...no doubt about that so has the Kenpom(why people take that as gospel I have no idea, but whatever)...the NCAA tournament record has NOT.
Now...my challenge to everyone here, is LOOK at these three years based solely on the record etc. IGNORE the fact what he started with etc etc(that argument is tired and lame)...Just REALLY look at the raw #'s...and ask yourself...is this/should it be good enough at a place like Marquette?? Or is this Mediocrity at it's finest(all things considered)??
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Yes, the trend is not very dissimiliar from MU's last 3 seasons, in different order, but not much different. I wish people would stop looking at "trend lines" etc...and just look at REAL results...ignore everything else and look at Wojo's last three years..
19-13 (10-8) first round exit Kenpom #97
21-14 (9-9) NIT Kenpom #53
24-10 (12-6) first round exit #32
Sure, the record has gotten better...no doubt about that so has the Kenpom(why people take that as gospel I have no idea, but whatever)...the NCAA tournament record has NOT.
Now...my challenge to everyone here, is LOOK at these three years based solely on the record etc. IGNORE the fact what he started with etc etc(that argument is tired and lame)...Just REALLY look at the raw #'s...and ask yourself...is this/should it be good enough at a place like Marquette?? Or is this Mediocrity at it's finest(all things considered)??
Some one on this site defined Mediocrity as Waukesha. Waukesha it is.
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Man, the guy made 3 NCAAs and 2 NITs in 8 years. Fired after making the NIT this year. Now there’s a program that holds its coach accountable.
$130M in annual athletic revenues
A slight difference between MU and UA in terms of operating budget, size, ability to pay buy outs, etc
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Nothing weird about it...this is EXACTLY what it looks like when an administration has high expectations for their BB program...when those expectations aren't met, the Coach loses his job. MU's administration could learn a lot from this, instead I bet they see this, are scratching their heads going..."what the hell, the guy went to 3 NCAA's, and two NIT's..what more do they want?? That's right in line with our expectations here".
When is Marquette joining the SEC and getting that football money that gives them flexibility to do these things. Since you are going to compare us to their administration, compare the tools with which they have to operate, as well.
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Yes, the trend is not very dissimiliar from MU's last 3 seasons, in different order, but not much different. I wish people would stop looking at "trend lines" etc...and just look at REAL results...ignore everything else and look at Wojo's last three years..
19-13 (10-8) first round exit Kenpom #97
21-14 (9-9) NIT Kenpom #53
24-10 (12-6) first round exit #32
Sure, the record has gotten better...no doubt about that so has the Kenpom(why people take that as gospel I have no idea, but whatever)...the NCAA tournament record has NOT.
Now...my challenge to everyone here, is LOOK at these three years based solely on the record etc. IGNORE the fact what he started with etc etc(that argument is tired and lame)...Just REALLY look at the raw #'s...and ask yourself...is this/should it be good enough at a place like Marquette?? Or is this Mediocrity at it's finest(all things considered)??
OMG
Trend is similar, even though the exact opposite. Where did you go to school?
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When is Marquette joining the SEC and getting that football money that gives them flexibility to do these things. Since you are going to compare us to their administration, compare the tools with which they have to operate, as well.
MU's athletic program has plenty of $$ to do these things, and you know that. They will pay top dollar for a Coach etc. They have plenty of wealthy enough donors to do what needs to be done.
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OMG
Trend is similar, even though the exact opposite. Where did you go to school?
I knew you wouldn't be able to do it Chicos...your elevator doesn't go to the top floor...I asked a simple question...just look at the last three years...forget about anything else...just the last three years...would that/should that be good enough for the BB program at Marquette?? It's a simple yes or no answer...not some diatribe about Buzz etc. Answer the question...should that performance/record be good enoug hat a place like Marquette??
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MU's athletic program has plenty of $$ to do these things, and you know that. They will pay top dollar for a Coach etc. They have plenty of wealthy enough donors to do what needs to be done.
Well, we don’t pay top dollar now and haven’t. We have been up there, but not TOP DOLLAR.
You do realize that these schools have many more alums, of the well heeled and garden variety type...more options to cultivate donors. They also have football money to fall back on. SEC network distribution is massive. Apples and oranges.
We pay well, but we also don’t have the luxury of missing like these other schools which is also why we are going to be a lot more conservative making changes than the schools you keep bringing up.
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Yes, good. Let's be like Arkansas. Very cool.
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The folks who have and continue to want Wojo gone remind me of fanbases at mid-low level SEC football programs.
bump
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Yes, the trend is not very dissimiliar from MU's last 3 seasons, in different order, but not much different.
So the exact opposite is "not much different"? I get it, you're unhappy with March results, but this is a stretch, even for you.
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So the exact opposite is "not much different"? I get it, you're unhappy with March results, but this is a stretch, even for you.
I should have said the results are similar..because that's what i look at, that's the bottom line to me.
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Guru-
Give it up. You will persuade absolutely no one to change their mind. Just like no one will change yours.
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Now...my challenge to everyone here, is LOOK at these three years based solely on the record etc. IGNORE the fact what he started with etc etc(that argument is tired and lame)...Just REALLY look at the raw #'s...and ask yourself...is this/should it be good enough at a place like Marquette?? Or is this Mediocrity at it's finest(all things considered)??
Again, you don't fire a coach to punish him for not meeting your expectations.
You fire a coach because he is no longer building the program. He is either regressing or plateauing for a significant period of time.
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Again, you don't fire a coach to punish him for not meeting your expectations.
You fire a coach because he is no longer building the program. He is either regressing or plateauing for a significant period of time.
Hmmm well...you pro Wojo guys haven't asked yourself one important question...Obviously hypothetical...but let's assume MU got a new AD last year...I would bet you(or anyone else) very large sums of $$, he would have fired Wojo at the end of this year...you know why?? Because new AD's always want their own guy. If the sitting Coach is doing well enough, they would leave them alone...but usually a New AD comes in they have a new vision etc. So...if a new AD would have fired him(which I believe he would have)...can't you then make the argument he should be fired?? And perhaps the only reason he hasn't been is because the administration is in love with him?? More specifically, are YOU or any other pro Wojo guy willing to wager a different admin would feel EXACTLY the same?? If you think they would, then I will concede...but I think(and you are smart enough to know this too) it is far more likely then not, a new administration coming in, would fire him...happens every where.
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Hmmm well...you pro Wojo guys haven't asked yourself one important question...Obviously hypothetical...but let's assume MU got a new AD last year...I would bet you(or anyone else) very large sums of $$, he would have fired Wojo at the end of this year...you know why?? Because new AD's always want their own guy. If the sitting Coach is doing well enough, they would leave them alone...but usually a New AD comes in they have a new vision etc. So...if a new AD would have fired him(which I believe he would have)...can't you then make the argument he should be fired?? And perhaps the only reason he hasn't been is because the administration is in love with him?? More specifically, are YOU or any other pro Wojo guy willing to wager a different admin would feel EXACTLY the same?? If you think they would, then I will concede...but I think(and you are smart enough to know this too) it is far more likely then not, a new administration coming in, would fire him...happens every where.
I agree with this analysis
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MU's athletic program has plenty of $$ to do these things, and you know that. They will pay top dollar for a Coach etc. They have plenty of wealthy enough donors to do what needs to be done.
Marquette doesn't have SEC money. Heck, softball in the SEC pays it's coaches heck of wage. These buildings for softball are better than 200+ schools in college hoops.
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Marquette doesn't have SEC money. Heck, softball in the SEC pays it's coaches heck of wage. These buildings for softball are better than 200+ schools in college hoops.
Mr. Nielsen...I can assure you, of one thing...(and for those of you hanging on everything I say, this is PURELY HYPOTHETICAL)...let's say Brad Stevens called and said I will become your next Head Coach if you pay me xxxx amount of dollars...MU could find the $$ to pay him whatever he requested(obviously if it's reasonable(ish). Now if they would...would be another story. If they didn't however, they would be the biggest idiots alive.
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Hmmm well...you pro Wojo guys haven't asked yourself one important question...Obviously hypothetical...but let's assume MU got a new AD last year...I would bet you(or anyone else) very large sums of $$, he would have fired Wojo at the end of this year...you know why?? Because new AD's always want their own guy. If the sitting Coach is doing well enough, they would leave them alone...but usually a New AD comes in they have a new vision etc. So...if a new AD would have fired him(which I believe he would have)...can't you then make the argument he should be fired?? And perhaps the only reason he hasn't been is because the administration is in love with him?? More specifically, are YOU or any other pro Wojo guy willing to wager a different admin would feel EXACTLY the same?? If you think they would, then I will concede...but I think(and you are smart enough to know this too) it is far more likely then not, a new administration coming in, would fire him...happens every where.
I'm confident that most ADs do exactly what I said, they fire coaches who are regressing or plateuing and support the ones who are building the program. They do NOT fire a coach as punishment for not living up to fan expectations. Those that don't fall into the most aren't very good ADs.
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Marquette doesn't have SEC money. Heck, softball in the SEC pays it's coaches heck of wage. These buildings for softball are better than 200+ schools in college hoops.
SEC softball gets solid tv ratings
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Mr. Nielsen...I can assure you, of one thing...(and for those of you hanging on everything I say, this is PURELY HYPOTHETICAL)...let's say Brad Stevens called and said I will become your next Head Coach if you pay me xxxx amount of dollars...MU could find the $$ to pay him whatever he requested(obviously if it's reasonable(ish). Now if they would...would be another story. If they didn't however, they would be the biggest idiots alive.
As your example you give, I agree with that.
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I feel like the Athletic Department is being run like the Brewers were in the 90s when Wendy Selig took control of the team. She couldn’t bear to fire Sal Brando because he was “like an uncle” to her. Wojo will need to seriously bottom out for the AD to fire him. If he continues to produce fair to middling results, he’ll be here as long as he chooses to stay.
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SEC softball gets solid tv ratings
I watch SEC softball all the time!
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I watch SEC softball all the time!
Well there you go. Nothing like those southern hotties in pony tails. Oh, Yeah they are pretty darn good athletes too.
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I feel like the Athletic Department is being run like the Brewers were in the 90s when Wendy Selig took control of the team. She couldn’t bear to fire Sal Brando because he was “like an uncle” to her. Wojo will need to seriously bottom out for the AD to fire him. If he continues to produce fair to middling results, he’ll be here as long as he chooses to stay.
Come on. MU Volleyball, Big East champions, NCAA tournament. MU Women's Basketball, Big East Champions, NCAA Tournament. MU Men's basketball, Big East 2nd place, ranked top 15 much of the year, NCAA tournament. MU Women's LAX, coming off NCAA tournament last year....season in progress. MU Men's LAX, just beat ranked G' Town yesterday and MU receiving votes in top 20 rankings. Marquette Tennis, defending Big East champions. And on and on.
2017 Big East President's Trophy for best overall athletic department = Marquette
Those are not fair to middling results. Nor is making the NCAA tournament and finishing 2nd in the conference. The new definitions of words are enlightening.
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and 4 Sweet 16 teams. Feast or famine.
Will be interesting to see the coaches applying to replace him..
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I'm confident that most ADs do exactly what I said, they fire coaches who are regressing or plateuing and support the ones who are building the program. They do NOT fire a coach as punishment for not living up to fan expectations. Those that don't fall into the most aren't very good ADs.
Tim Miles...was fired at Nebraska today..In 2017-2018 they were 22-11 and were left out of the NCAA's when many thought they would make it...This year they were 19-17 and had it not been for the inury to Copeland, they make the NCAA's..Nebraska has had only two winning conference records BXII/B10 in the 21st century...why was he fired??
Bryce Drew- Got three years at Vandy...made NCAA's his first year there, with a mostly Senior laden class...regressed the next year, and had a disaster of a year this year after losing 1st round NBA pick Darius Garland...3 years...fired. Why was he fired??
Let's put it this way..Let's say you TAMU own a business...and for a stretch of years from 2008-2014, your business was at levels you hadn't seen in many years..Your product had an identity, more and more people were starting to notice, you were making more $$ than you ever had..You were close to becoming in an elite group of manufacturers...this was all due to a new plant manager you had brought in to replace one that left for a better opportunity...But this plant manager had business booming...then because of some bad publicity(that was never bad nationally only in an isolated local area), you got scared...and you started making life harder and harder for this plant manager, putting restrictions on what he could do etc...only your business was as good as it had ever been..well you were hoping he'd leave because you were worried if your "brand" could withstand a little bad publicity(again only locally).
You got your wish...he left...so you decided to bring in someone more clean cut, but inexperienced to take over your plant manager duties..5 years later, your business hasn't gotten significantly better, certainly nowhere near the levels it had been at under the previous pant manager..No one nationally talks about/raves about your product the way they once did..your product has dipped from those days, the quality isn't as good, and there's no guarantees it will ever be at that level again under this plant manager..he's had 5 years...you now have to ask yourself, how many more years of this can you afford before your business becomes irrelevant and gets passed by other companies that produce better results from the same product?? If you don't act soon..it could all crumble down and you lose it all....so what do you do?? Do you take a chance by firing this plant manager, and "reorganizing" and bring in someone else that almost certainly would produce no worse then the same results, or do you let him stay for another couple years and risk losing your business entirely??
You want to be the company that was "on top of the world" or close to it, just a few years ago..that's what you want to be again, you have now been passed by companies of the same size and stature, and even some lessor ones, their product is better then yours now. What are you going to do??
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Will be interesting to see the coaches applying to replace him..
Yup. Anyone who thinks MU would be a hot job after firing their coach after a season he got a 5 seed and finished 2nd in their conference is kidding themselves.
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(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4c/83/06/4c83061cffe2294a0538ad94d2d438f1.gif)
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MU Women's LAX, coming off NCAA tournament last year....season in progress.
They never been in NCAA Tournament.
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Yup. Anyone who thinks MU would be a hot job after firing their coach after a season he got a 5 seed and finished 2nd in their conference is kidding themselves.
Oh really?? I can promise you a vast majority if not all of the recently unemployed Coaches would be falling all over themselves for the MU job...that's not saying I'd hire any of them but if you base "hot" on the number of applications/interest expressed I can 99% guarantee you you would here from(in no particular order):
Mike Anderson
Steve Alford
Bryce Drew
Tim Miles
Avery Johnson
Dave Rose
Marvin Menzies
Thad Matta
And that's not saying anything about guys that are current Head coaches, assistants etc. there would be TONS of interest.
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Do you honestly feel any of those coaches are upgrades?
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Do you honestly feel any of those coaches are upgrades?
My post said...not that I would hire any of them...but there were questions about how much interest there would be in the MU job if they fired a Coach coming off a five seed...I was saying there would be PLENTY of interest. Of those..I love the way Mike Anderson's teams play...but to me, if I HAD to choose one of those, it would be Matta...I wouldn't be disappointed with him.
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Back on topic .. so much for Wojo to UNLV
@JonRothstein: Sources: South Dakota State's T.J. Otzelberger has emerged as a primary candidate for the head coaching vacancy at UNLV. Runnin Rebels hope to have a head coach hired by the end of the week.
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Wojo ta SDSU, hey?
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Tim Miles...was fired at Nebraska today..In 2017-2018 they were 22-11 and were left out of the NCAA's when many thought they would make it...This year they were 19-17 and had it not been for the inury to Copeland, they make the NCAA's..Nebraska has had only two winning conference records BXII/B10 in the 21st century...why was he fired??
Bryce Drew- Got three years at Vandy...made NCAA's his first year there, with a mostly Senior laden class...regressed the next year, and had a disaster of a year this year after losing 1st round NBA pick Darius Garland...3 years...fired. Why was he fired??
Let's put it this way..Let's say you TAMU own a business...and for a stretch of years from 2008-2014, your business was at levels you hadn't seen in many years..Your product had an identity, more and more people were starting to notice, you were making more $$ than you ever had..You were close to becoming in an elite group of manufacturers...this was all due to a new plant manager you had brought in to replace one that left for a better opportunity...But this plant manager had business booming...then because of some bad publicity(that was never bad nationally only in an isolated local area), you got scared...and you started making life harder and harder for this plant manager, putting restrictions on what he could do etc...only your business was as good as it had ever been..well you were hoping he'd leave because you were worried if your "brand" could withstand a little bad publicity(again only locally).
You got your wish...he left...so you decided to bring in someone more clean cut, but inexperienced to take over your plant manager duties..5 years later, your business hasn't gotten significantly better, certainly nowhere near the levels it had been at under the previous pant manager..No one nationally talks about/raves about your product the way they once did..your product has dipped from those days, the quality isn't as good, and there's no guarantees it will ever be at that level again under this plant manager..he's had 5 years...you now have to ask yourself, how many more years of this can you afford before your business becomes irrelevant and gets passed by other companies that produce better results from the same product?? If you don't act soon..it could all crumble down and you lose it all....so what do you do?? Do you take a chance by firing this plant manager, and "reorganizing" and bring in someone else that almost certainly would produce no worse then the same results, or do you let him stay for another couple years and risk losing your business entirely??
You want to be the company that was "on top of the world" or close to it, just a few years ago..that's what you want to be again, you have now been passed by companies of the same size and stature, and even some lessor ones, their product is better then yours now. What are you going to do??
Cool. But only somebody who desperately wants to get rid of a coach would look at a 3-year stretch of NCAA-NIT-NCAA ... with the latter including a 2nd-place finish and a 5-seed ... and with everybody coming back ... and with a good transfer becoming eligible ... and with a key injured player coming back ... and with at least one good recruit already on the hook ... and with near sellout crowds at an NBA arena most games ... and with a team full of kids who have represented the university perfectly ... and say, "You know, that guy needs to be fired."
guru, you don't like Wojo, you are convinced he is a failure and will always be a failure, and you desperately want to get rid of him.
So yes, YOU would fire him. ADs aren't anonymous interwebs fans, thankfully.
None of the coaches that have been fired these last 2-3 weeks are coming off a season like we just did. Not one of them.
And finally, for somebody who doesn't want to hear anybody make any "excuses" for Wojo, you sure are willing to make excuses for Miles, Drew and any other coach who isn't named Wojo.
So are we about "no excuses" or aren't we?
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Tim Miles...was fired at Nebraska today..In 2017-2018 they were 22-11 and were left out of the NCAA's when many thought they would make it...This year they were 19-17 and had it not been for the inury to Copeland, they make the NCAA's..Nebraska has had only two winning conference records BXII/B10 in the 21st century...why was he fired??
#FakeNews #Lies
Nebraska was doomed heading into the season and had started the tank before IC went down. Combined with the weak recruiting, Miles wasn’t gonna be the answer to their desires.
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Cool. But only somebody who desperately wants to get rid of a coach would look at a 3-year stretch of NCAA-NIT-NCAA ... with the latter including a 2nd-place finish and a 5-seed ... and with everybody coming back ... and with a good transfer becoming eligible ... and with a key injured player coming back ... and with at least one good recruit already on the hook ... and with near sellout crowds at an NBA arena most games ... and with a team full of kids who have represented the university perfectly ... and say, "You know, that guy needs to be fired."
guru, you don't like Wojo, you are convinced he is a failure and will always be a failure, and you desperately want to get rid of him.
So yes, YOU would fire him. ADs aren't anonymous interwebs fans, thankfully.
None of the coaches that have been fired these last 2-3 weeks are coming off a season like we just did. Not one of them.
And finally, for somebody who doesn't want to hear anybody make any "excuses" for Wojo, you sure are willing to make excuses for Miles, Drew and any other coach who isn't named Wojo.
So are we about "no excuses" or aren't we?
I'm not making excuses for them...I don't care if they got fired or not...all I'm asking is...why people think they got fired?? I'm 99% sure it was because they weren't meeting those schools expectations. Right or wrong..they weren't.
Look...My biggest issue with Wojo is his lack of in game adjustments..Can we compromise?? If I'm 100% honest...I'd be more than happy to see Wojo stay(I like his recruiting)...IF he is willing to acknowledge this might be a weakness of his and find a veteran asst Coach to help with X's and O's, in game stuff etc. Sound good??
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I'm not making excuses for them...I don't care if they got fired or not...all I'm asking is...why people think they got fired?? I'm 99% sure it was because they weren't meeting those schools expectations. Right or wrong..they weren't.
Look...My biggest issue with Wojo is his lack of in game adjustments..Can we compromise?? If I'm 100% honest...I'd be more than happy to see Wojo stay(I like his recruiting)...IF he is willing to acknowledge this might be a weakness of his and find a veteran asst Coach to help with X's and O's, in game stuff etc. Sound good??
If he feels he needs such an assistant, I'd be all for it. If he doesn't feel he needs it, that's fine with me, too.
The fact that you think he needs one doesn't move the needle much for me. And neither you nor I have the power to do anything about any of this, so we cannot make this "deal."
But I do like the spirit of compromise. I know that wasn't easy for you, and I honestly appreciate it.
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I'm not making excuses for them...I don't care if they got fired or not...all I'm asking is...why people think they got fired?? I'm 99% sure it was because they weren't meeting those schools expectations. Right or wrong..they weren't.
Look...My biggest issue with Wojo is his lack of in game adjustments..Can we compromise?? If I'm 100% honest...I'd be more than happy to see Wojo stay(I like his recruiting)...IF he is willing to acknowledge this might be a weakness of his and find a veteran asst Coach to help with X's and O's, in game stuff etc. Sound good??
https://gomarquette.com/coaches.aspx?rc=357&path=mbball
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They never been in NCAA Tournament.
Apologies....they got bid to Big East tournament last year (not all qualify). You are correct.
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https://gomarquette.com/coaches.aspx?rc=357&path=mbball
He's easy to forget about...he doesn't seem to do anything.
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Tim Miles...was fired at Nebraska today..In 2017-2018 they were 22-11 and were left out of the NCAA's when many thought they would make it...This year they were 19-17 and had it not been for the inury to Copeland, they make the NCAA's..Nebraska has had only two winning conference records BXII/B10 in the 21st century...why was he fired??
Downward trend. His peak was his 2nd year when he managed an 11 seed with mostly his predecessors' players. He plummeted to a 12-19 season in his 5th year. He managed to rebuild a little bit but the most he could manage was two trips to the NIT. Now they are about to enter a new rebuild cycle. Honestly, he should have been fired after year 3, and if not then certainly at year 5.
Bryce Drew- Got three years at Vandy...made NCAA's his first year there, with a mostly Senior laden class...regressed the next year, and had a disaster of a year this year after losing 1st round NBA pick Darius Garland...3 years...fired. Why was he fired??
Downward trend. He took over a team fresh off an NCAA (though it was Dayton). With Stallings players he managed a 9 seed...his peak. The following season he won 12 games despite being projected as a tourney team preseason. This season he won 9 games including going 0-19 in conference play.
You just gave two example of obvious downward trend, neither of who made a the NCAAs, and comparing them to a guy with an upward trend who just earned a 5 seed in the NCAAs. You are bad at this.
Let's put it this way..Let's say you TAMU own a business...and for a stretch of years from 2008-2014, your business was at levels you hadn't seen in many years..Your product had an identity, more and more people were starting to notice, you were making more $$ than you ever had..You were close to becoming in an elite group of manufacturers...this was all due to a new plant manager you had brought in to replace one that left for a better opportunity...But this plant manager had business booming...then because of some bad publicity(that was never bad nationally only in an isolated local area), you got scared...and you started making life harder and harder for this plant manager, putting restrictions on what he could do etc...only your business was as good as it had ever been..well you were hoping he'd leave because you were worried if your "brand" could withstand a little bad publicity(again only locally).
You got your wish...he left...so you decided to bring in someone more clean cut, but inexperienced to take over your plant manager duties..5 years later, your business hasn't gotten significantly better, certainly nowhere near the levels it had been at under the previous pant manager..No one nationally talks about/raves about your product the way they once did..your product has dipped from those days, the quality isn't as good, and there's no guarantees it will ever be at that level again under this plant manager..he's had 5 years...you now have to ask yourself, how many more years of this can you afford before your business becomes irrelevant and gets passed by other companies that produce better results from the same product?? If you don't act soon..it could all crumble down and you lose it all....so what do you do?? Do you take a chance by firing this plant manager, and "reorganizing" and bring in someone else that almost certainly would produce no worse then the same results, or do you let him stay for another couple years and risk losing your business entirely??
You want to be the company that was "on top of the world" or close to it, just a few years ago..that's what you want to be again, you have now been passed by companies of the same size and stature, and even some lessor ones, their product is better then yours now. What are you going to do??
Few issues with your poorly constructed analogy:
1. We didn't have a good run from 2008 to 2014. We had a good run from 2008 to 2013. Then the plant manager turned in the worst year in a decade. Not only that, but all signs pointed to another rough year in 14-15 and possibly even a rough 15-16. All because one of the plant manager's employees unexpectedly got a better job and the plant manager wasn't prepared.
2. No one wanted the Plant Manger to leave. The plant manager had the balls to demand a raise after his disastrous 13-14 fiscal year after threatening to leave for other jobs every year since he had been hired so the owner said you can take the other job because we won't give you a raise after that performance.
3. Bad publicity wasn't the plant manager's problem, it was more like violating safety violations, sure maybe you get away with it but if OSHA comes sniffing around, you're boned. Plus other actions that went against the mission of your company.
4. If the plant managers work is what you call "close to elite" you have very small goals. He turned in two really good fiscal years....but by the big competitors standards they were below average to bad years.
5. When the plant manager stormed off, he also took some of his best employees with him, leaving the new plant manager with some old veterans who had never been very good and one young guy who probably should have been working for a non-profit from the start.
6. The new plant manager has made a lot of mistakes, but has slowly revived the business. In fact, in the most recent year he beat the old plant manager's third best year. Hasn't quite gotten them to the level the old plant manager was at, but with the staff he has under him the next year looks very bright. Some guys are set to retire soon, so he'll need to identify new talent to replace them, but if he does that, the old plant will be at the level the old plant manager had it at....and he may even sustain it longer than two years!
7. Actually despite what you said, you have one employee under the plant manager who has been repeatedly recognized as one of the top employees in the nation and he was recruited to your plant by the new plant manager. His face was all over MSNBC and on the cover of trade magazines. He even won some awards! People are talking more about your company that they have in years.
So I guess the question is, do I keep enjoying increased success every year? Or do I throw a temper tantrum because the new guy couldn't clean up the old guy's mess as fast as I wanted him to?
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I'm not making excuses for them...I don't care if they got fired or not...all I'm asking is...why people think they got fired?? I'm 99% sure it was because they weren't meeting those schools expectations. Right or wrong..they weren't.
You would be wrong. Expectations weren't met true, but they were fired because the program was getting worse, trending downward under their care. The other problem with these comparisons is that Wojo has met the school's expectations. You just don't agree with them. Don't worry though. Expectations continue to go up the longer Wojo is here. Just because expectations were low during the rebuild doesn't mean expectations are low from now on.
Look...My biggest issue with Wojo is his lack of in game adjustments..Can we compromise?? If I'm 100% honest...I'd be more than happy to see Wojo stay(I like his recruiting)...IF he is willing to acknowledge this might be a weakness of his and find a veteran asst Coach to help with X's and O's, in game stuff etc. Sound good??
As Dr. B pointed out, that's what Rob Judson was hired for. Wojo doesn't do drastic adjustments like you want, but he does make in game adjustments. That's why we had so many come from behind victories this season. He doesn't throw a whole new defense out there, but he will adjust who is covering who, how the big man is covering the screen, are the guards in an opponents face or are they giving them more space to deny the drive. I don't think the criticism is "he didn't make enough adjustments" I think the criticism is he often didn't make the right adjustments. He also often adjusted in an obvious way that the other coach could anticipate and exploit. I don't have the numbers to prove it, but I feel like we were especially bad on defense coming out of timeouts. We were great when we were inbounding but when he had to defend after a time out it felt like the opponent almost always got a score.
Drastic adjustments are more fun and easier for fans to spot but they often have devastating consequences. Look what happened when Wojo busted out an aggressive trapping defense that we hadn't used all season against Murray State. We got shredded because we weren't used to running it. But sometimes it can save a game, like the gameplan against Georgetown when Markus got hurt.
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Hmmm well...you pro Wojo guys haven't asked yourself one important question...Obviously hypothetical...but let's assume MU got a new AD last year...I would bet you(or anyone else) very large sums of $$, he would have fired Wojo at the end of this year...you know why?? Because new AD's always want their own guy. If the sitting Coach is doing well enough, they would leave them alone...but usually a New AD comes in they have a new vision etc. So...if a new AD would have fired him(which I believe he would have)...can't you then make the argument he should be fired?? And perhaps the only reason he hasn't been is because the administration is in love with him?? More specifically, are YOU or any other pro Wojo guy willing to wager a different admin would feel EXACTLY the same?? If you think they would, then I will concede...but I think(and you are smart enough to know this too) it is far more likely then not, a new administration coming in, would fire him...happens every where.
Always? Nope. That is categorically untrue. Sometimes, yes. Always...nope. What you are also forgetting is the AD answers to the President of the university and any firing has to be approved by the Pres. So a new AD might have grand plans to put his/her fingerprints on a program, but they need buy off to the top.
I would bet my house and everything I own in the scenario you presented that a new AD absolutely would not have fired him. Finishing 2nd, making the tournament and with what is coming back next year, there is no way that would happen and the new AD would need to be worried he/she doesn't get run out by the Pres. You just don't make that move.
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Always? Nope. That is categorically untrue. Sometimes, yes. Always...nope. What you are also forgetting is the AD answers to the President of the university and any firing has to be approved by the Pres. So a new AD might have grand plans to put his/her fingerprints on a program, but they need buy off to the top.
I would bet my house and everything I own in the scenario you presented that a new AD absolutely would not have fired him. Finishing 2nd, making the tournament and with what is coming back next year, there is no way that would happen and the new AD would need to be worried he/she doesn't get run out by the Pres. You just don't make that move.
The sports landscape, pro and college is littered thru the years of successful Coaches losing their job because a new Gm/AD takes over and wants their own guy..someone they know and trust. So to say "you just dont make that move" ..except many have through the years..and those GM's/AD's keep their jobs too.
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Bold prediction right here:
-Shaka out at Texas (soon)
-Bazz takes the job once VTech gets bounced
Texas wants to move before TAMU does. Bazz starts a bidding war and eventually takes the Texas job, ultimately becoming one of the highest paid coaches in college BBall. Book it.
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Downward trend. His peak was his 2nd year when he managed an 11 seed with mostly his predecessors' players. He plummeted to a 12-19 season in his 5th year. He managed to rebuild a little bit but the most he could manage was two trips to the NIT. Now they are about to enter a new rebuild cycle. Honestly, he should have been fired after year 3, and if not then certainly at year 5.
Downward trend. He took over a team fresh off an NCAA (though it was Dayton). With Stallings players he managed a 9 seed...his peak. The following season he won 12 games despite being projected as a tourney team preseason. This season he won 9 games including going 0-19 in conference play.
You just gave two example of obvious downward trend, neither of who made a the NCAAs, and comparing them to a guy with an upward trend who just earned a 5 seed in the NCAAs. You are bad at this.
Few issues with your poorly constructed analogy:
1. We didn't have a good run from 2008 to 2014. We had a good run from 2008 to 2013. Then the plant manager turned in the worst year in a decade. Not only that, but all signs pointed to another rough year in 14-15 and possibly even a rough 15-16. All because one of the plant manager's employees unexpectedly got a better job and the plant manager wasn't prepared.
2. No one wanted the Plant Manger to leave. The plant manager had the balls to demand a raise after his disastrous 13-14 fiscal year after threatening to leave for other jobs every year since he had been hired so the owner said you can take the other job because we won't give you a raise after that performance.
3. Bad publicity wasn't the plant manager's problem, it was more like violating safety violations, sure maybe you get away with it but if OSHA comes sniffing around, you're boned. Plus other actions that went against the mission of your company.
4. If the plant managers work is what you call "close to elite" you have very small goals. He turned in two really good fiscal years....but by the big competitors standards they were below average to bad years.
5. When the plant manager stormed off, he also took some of his best employees with him, leaving the new plant manager with some old veterans who had never been very good and one young guy who probably should have been working for a non-profit from the start.
6. The new plant manager has made a lot of mistakes, but has slowly revived the business. In fact, in the most recent year he beat the old plant manager's third best year. Hasn't quite gotten them to the level the old plant manager was at, but with the staff he has under him the next year looks very bright. Some guys are set to retire soon, so he'll need to identify new talent to replace them, but if he does that, the old plant will be at the level the old plant manager had it at....and he may even sustain it longer than two years!
7. Actually despite what you said, you have one employee under the plant manager who has been repeatedly recognized as one of the top employees in the nation and he was recruited to your plant by the new plant manager. His face was all over MSNBC and on the cover of trade magazines. He even won some awards! People are talking more about your company that they have in years.
So I guess the question is, do I keep enjoying increased success every year? Or do I throw a temper tantrum because the new guy couldn't clean up the old guy's mess as fast as I wanted him to?
This was really an excellent post.
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Bold prediction right here:
-Shaka out at Texas (soon)
-Bazz takes the job once VTech gets bounced
Texas wants to move before TAMU does. Bazz starts a bidding war and eventually takes the Texas job, ultimately becoming one of the highest paid coaches in college BBall. Book it.
I can see that. It will be fun to watch.
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Bold prediction right here:
-Shaka out at Texas (soon)
-Bazz takes the job once VTech gets bounced
Texas wants to move before TAMU does. Bazz starts a bidding war and eventually takes the Texas job, ultimately becoming one of the highest paid coaches in college BBall. Book it.
Firing Shaka now would cost Texas nearly $13 million..That athletic department is rich, but are they rich enough to spend that and then get into a bidding war with A&M, for a sport that ranks a distant second, and maybe even third, in terms of importance?
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Firing Shaka now would cost Texas nearly $13 million..That athletic department is rich, but are they rich enough to spend that and then get into a bidding war with A&M, for a sport that ranks a distant second, and maybe even third, in terms of importance?
Yes, they are absolutely rich enough, but also unlikely to spend that wealth on basketball.
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The whole Shaka thing is interesting. He had that magical run to the Final Four in his second year, but hasn't won the regular season conference championship during his entire career and hasn't gotten to the Sweet 16 again. He has won two conference tournament championships however.
Really I think he and Wojo would have had similar results at MU. In the long run, we may have dodged a bullet there.
If UT decides to move on, they might look at Chris Beard too.
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The whole Shaka thing is interesting. He had that magical run to the Final Four in his second year, but hasn't won the regular season conference championship during his entire career and hasn't gotten to the Sweet 16 again. He has won two conference tournament championships however.
Really I think he and Wojo would have had similar results at MU. In the long run, we may have dodged a bullet there.
If UT decides to move on, they might look at Chris Beard too.
Chris Beard would be fascinating if they pursued him. UT undergrad who worked under Tom Penders. But spent a decade at Texas Tech under the Knights and openly called it his dream job before he ever got courted. He's built something really nice there, but Texas is Texas.
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Texas gets a lot of attention because of football. The basketball program has been very good, Top 25 even. The Longhorns have made 26 NCAA appearances in the past 31 seasons -- including 7 trips to the Sweet 16, 4 Elite Eights and a Final Four.
But with just that one Final Four in the past 70 years and no national titles, I think of Texas as perpetual underachievers. Kansas has dominated the Big 12 forever. I'm not sure Texas even belongs among the top 5 programs in the conference right now.
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According to Goodman, TJ O to UNLV.
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According to Goodman, TJ O to UNLV.
Like this hire, and like the move for TJO. With Daum leaving SDSU this year, great time for him to take a step up.
He was going to be on my wish list if Wojo got the boot in the next few years. Curious to see how he does in Vegas since he's had most of his recruiting success in the Midwest.
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Like this hire, and like the move for TJO. With Daum leaving SDSU this year, great time for him to take a step up.
He was going to be on my wish list if Wojo got the boot in the next few years. Curious to see how he does in Vegas since he's had most of his recruiting success in the Midwest.
He spent a year at Washington. Believe he was there the year they got Fultz, FWIW. Hope he kills it at UNLV
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Yes, they are absolutely rich enough, but also unlikely to spend that wealth on basketball.
Seems like Buzz is a better fit at A&M than UT.
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Seems like Buzz is a better fit at A&M than UT.
Yep, he and Jumbo Fisher are birds of a feather.
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@GoodmanHoops: Alabama has hired Nate Oats.
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@GoodmanHoops: Alabama has hired Nate Oats.
Reports say the buyout from the extension he signed two weeks ago at $750,000. Kinda wonder if the real point of that extension was a parting gift to Buffalo by way of whichever school he would end up leaving for.
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I know you gotta strike when the iron's hot, but Alabama seems to be the place where coaching careers get killed off. Anthony Grant was the high flying mid-major coach when he went there and it didn't go so well.
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I know you gotta strike when the iron's hot, but Alabama seems to be the place where coaching careers get killed off. Anthony Grant was the high flying mid-major coach when he went there and it didn't go so well.
Yeah it would’ve been nice to see Nate hold out for a better situation
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Yeah it would’ve been nice to see Nate hold out for a better situation
The risk was probably too great that Buffalo would take a step back next year. No idea on terms, but I’m guessing he’ll make a lot more at Bama. If he does well, he can look for a better job. If he fails, he’ll have pocketed some good coin and can always go back to coaching at the low/mid major level. IMO, he made a good call.
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I like oats and otzelberger. I guess the pseudo good news is if wojo does flame out marq could potentially still get one of those guys if they were successful at those schools.
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The risk was probably too great that Buffalo would take a step back next year. No idea on terms, but I’m guessing he’ll make a lot more at Bama. If he does well, he can look for a better job. If he fails, he’ll have pocketed some good coin and can always go back to coaching at the low/mid major level. IMO, he made a good call.
Yep. He didn't want to get "Mosered."
I have no idea if the Loyola coach got a single P6 offer after last year's FF run, but if he did he should have taken it.
Buffalo could slide big-time next year. Get the $$$ now.
This also shows how meaningless these contract extensions and buyouts are.
When folks are talking about players having the same kind of freedom coaches do, inevitably somebody brings up the buyout ... as if that stops most programs that really want a coach from hiring that coach. I suppose if the buyout is $10M or something, maybe, but that's very rare. Alabama paid for this buyout from the change they found in the sofa cushions in Saban's lounge.
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The risk was probably too great that Buffalo would take a step back next year. No idea on terms, but I’m guessing he’ll make a lot more at Bama. If he does well, he can look for a better job. If he fails, he’ll have pocketed some good coin and can always go back to coaching at the low/mid major level. IMO, he made a good call.
Oh I understand it from his perspective and don’t question it for him at all. My point was for his sake I wish it was in a better situation. That said if he’s as good a coach as I think he is he should be able to succeed anywhere
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Oh I understand it from his perspective and don’t question it for him at all. My point was for his sake I wish it was in a better situation. That said if he’s as good a coach as I think he is he should be able to succeed anywhere
I think he is a really good coach but he will fail there. Alabama not a place any coach is going to have big time long term sustained success, therefore, in 4-6 seasons ge will be fired. And it will all start again like at every SEC school not named UF or UK.
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I think he is a really good coach but he will fail there. Alabama not a place any coach is going to have big time long term sustained success, therefore, in 4-6 seasons ge will be fired. And it will all start again like at every SEC school not named UF or UK.
I agree with you on the shelf life of SEC basketball coaches. The thing is, in those 4-6 years Oats will probably have pocketed about $10 million. And when they fire him, some low/mid major school that needs a coach will say, “He did well at Buffalo and no one wins at Alabama. Let’s hire him.” He really had nothing to lose by taking the job. And hey, not bad for a guy who was coaching high school ball a few years ago.
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Not sure what some of you guys are talking about.
Wimp Sanderson and Mark Gottfried both had long (10+ years) and reasonably successful runs at Bama.
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Not sure what some of you guys are talking about.
Wimp Sanderson and Mark Gottfried both had long (10+ years) and reasonably successful runs at Bama.
Under suspicious circumstances.
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Under suspicious circumstances.
I believe you're thinking of Gottfriend's tenure at NC State. Neither he or Sanderson ran afoul of the NCAA at Alabama. Sanderson had some off-court behavior that led to his resignation, but nothing with the NCAA.
Anyhow, together they combined for 23 years at Bama, winning three SEC regular season titles, five SEC tournament titles and earning 15 NCAA bids.
All of which flies in the face of the notion that Bama is not a place where a coach can have long-term success.
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The only Alabama basketball result that matters to me was their win over the Warriors in the 2006 NCAAs in San Diego. I was there for other purposes (Illinois also happened to be playing there) so I got to witness firsthand a spirited comeback that ultimately ended when the magic ran out for Novak. He missed a jumper that could have given us the lead with about 30 seconds left and a 3 that could have tied it in the closing seconds.
But that's basketball. I really enjoyed the team that season, but obviously hated that ending.
Postscript:
Bama lost their next game by 3 points to UCLA, which ended up getting all the way to the championship game, where they fell to Florida.
UCLA was coached by Ben Howland, who 8 years later would be begging Marquette to hire him.
Marquette instead went with Wojo. After sitting out two years, Howland caught on with Mississippi State, which has done OK in his 4 seasons. As a 5-seed this year, their only NCAA tourney bid under Howland, they lost to to a 12-seed.
Sometimes the coincidences in sports are amazing!
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Otz just got the UNLV job. Good for my fellow Cavalier!
Edit. Didn't see you guys mention on the last page. (Told you I'm not paying attention. ?-( )
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Mark Fox to Cal.
Kidd maybe think he's getting the Lakers' gig.
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Mark Fox to Cal.
Kidd maybe think he's getting the Lakers' gig.
That has to be one of the most pedestrian hires I can imagine. Nothing against Fox, but that just screams 7th-10th in the league, no NCAA appearances for the next decade.
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That has to be one of the most pedestrian hires I can imagine. Nothing against Fox, but that just screams 7th-10th in the league, no NCAA appearances for the next decade.
Not sure the athletic department has a lot of money to do much more than that
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Apparently brought to you by the same search firm that recommended Kevin Stallings at Pitt.
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That has to be one of the most pedestrian hires I can imagine. Nothing against Fox, but that just screams 7th-10th in the league, no NCAA appearances for the next decade.
But he's been a D1 coach multiple times. Some think that makes it "safe".
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Very curious to see if Kelvin Sampson bolts for Arkansas
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But he's been a D1 coach multiple times. Some think that makes it "safe".
I'm not saying it's a bad hire, just a very dull one. Sort of like getting socks for Christmas, or winning an all inclusive trip to Toledo.
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I'm not saying it's a bad hire, just a very dull one. Sort of like getting socks for Christmas, or winning an all inclusive trip to Toledo.
Thats not dull, thats just cruel and some sort of punitive response to sins in your life.
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Mark Fox to Cal.
Kidd maybe think he's getting the Lakers' gig.
Kidd does not have a degree and that's a requirement within the UC system for the job.
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But he's been a D1 coach multiple times. Some think that makes it "safe".
Said no one, but good try. Also, key point missed was hiring a successful D1 MAJOR coach.
But no coaching hire is safe or guaranteed, you play the odds. The odds are greater they will succeed than an assistant that has never done it at the major level.
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That has to be one of the most pedestrian hires I can imagine. Nothing against Fox, but that just screams 7th-10th in the league, no NCAA appearances for the next decade.
Cal and Waazu are two of the worst basketball jobs in the PAC 12, for them this is a decent hire because it is a job that is so tough. I think the back half of your statement will prove to be inaccurate.
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S The odds are greater they will succeed than an assistant that has never done it at the major level.
source?
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source?
That assistant coaches don’t do as well in major coaching jobs then already major coaches switching from one major job to another....is that the question?
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Said no one, but good try. Also, key point missed was hiring a successful D1 MAJOR coach.
But no coaching hire is safe or guaranteed, you play the odds. The odds are greater they will succeed than an assistant that has never done it at the major level.
Fox was successful at Nevada - 3 straight NCAA appearances when they were still in the WAC. He struck while the iron was hot and took a big job where he really didn't fit and there wasn't great institutional support.
That said, Cal could have done much better. Cheaping out once again as that program is in incredible debt (the football stadium won't be paid off for another 90 years).
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Opinion: Auburn's Bruce Pearl symbolizes the rot in college athletics
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/nancy-armour/2019/03/29/bruce-pearl-auburn-march-madness-sweet-16/3301783002/
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Opinion: Auburn's Bruce Pearl symbolizes the rot in college athletics
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/nancy-armour/2019/03/29/bruce-pearl-auburn-march-madness-sweet-16/3301783002/
Not sure why this is in the carousel thread unless Pearl stands to lose his job or quit, but the columnist is spot on.
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Opinion: Auburn's Bruce Pearl symbolizes the rot in college athletics
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/nancy-armour/2019/03/29/bruce-pearl-auburn-march-madness-sweet-16/3301783002/
But he is funny (which he is, I will give that) and paints himself orange with the students. Sigh
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That assistant coaches don’t do as well in major coaching jobs then already major coaches switching from one major job to another....is that the question?
yes
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Yet another outstanding column by our own Nancy Armour, recipient of the 2019 MU Communicator of the Year Award.
https://www.marquette.edu/alumni/awards/recipients/armour.php
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Fox was successful at Nevada - 3 straight NCAA appearances when they were still in the WAC. He struck while the iron was hot and took a big job where he really didn't fit and there wasn't great institutional support.
That said, Cal could have done much better. Cheaping out once again as that program is in incredible debt (the football stadium won't be paid off for another 90 years).
Yes
Yes.
Yes, which is why I think for them it is a decent hire considering the predicament they are in along with other constraints.
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Yes
Yes.
Yes, which is why I think for them it is a decent hire considering the predicament they are in along with other constraints.
decent, but I think they would have been better served by hiring Russ Turner.
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yes
I'll tell you what, if I burn an hour of my day tomorrow to look at the assistant coaches hired say 5 to 10 years ago that went right into a major job vs major coaches that moved from one job to another and we look at those results we can discuss...deal?
The source, is my opinion, but I'm very confident it is going have more assistant coaches falling out then major coaches (e.g Cal from Memphis to KY, Barnes from Tex to Ten, etc) switching to other major roles.
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Fox was successful at Nevada - 3 straight NCAA appearances when they were still in the WAC. He struck while the iron was hot and took a big job where he really didn't fit and there wasn't great institutional support.
That said, Cal could have done much better. Cheaping out once again as that program is in incredible debt (the football stadium won't be paid off for another 90 years).
It is a really nice stadium though. The view of the bay from the concourse is as good as it gets.
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But he is funny (which he is, I will give that) and paints himself orange with the students. Sigh
Little bit of a fun fact that may help to explain Bruce's interaction with the students. Besides being a master salesman, as an undergrad at BC, Bruce was the eagle mascot while a student there.
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Buzz to A&M.....
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A&M ready to offer Buzz reportedly at least $3.5 million.
Will be interesting to see what he does.
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A&M ready to offer Buzz reportedly at least $3.5 million.
Will be interesting to see what he does.
#donedeal
Looks like Houston is preparing a big offer to keep Sampson.
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Buzz will have shorter honeymoon at A&M. Doubt if discussing five year plans.
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Buzz to A&M.....
Wojo in the top 3 list to Virginia Tech. ;D
https://247sports.com/college/virginia-tech/Board/59428/Contents/Coaching-Scoop-130267086/?Page=24
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Wojo in the top 3 list to Virginia Tech. ;D
https://247sports.com/college/virginia-tech/Board/59428/Contents/Coaching-Scoop-130267086/?Page=24
If they offered him good enough money and a long term, I suspect he would jump at the opportunity.
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Opinion: Auburn's Bruce Pearl symbolizes the rot in college athletics
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/nancy-armour/2019/03/29/bruce-pearl-auburn-march-madness-sweet-16/3301783002/
Of all the things going on in CBB, Nancy writes about BBQ’s and recordings of rival recruits? They have a Kansas assistant on tape talking about payment issues with Zion and no one talks about it. Coach K calls it a blip.
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Of all the things going on in CBB, Nancy writes about BBQ’s and recordings of rival recruits?
Exactly. Of all the transgressions to be outraged over, that's what she chooses. Ridiculous.
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Wojo in the top 3 list to Virginia Tech. ;D
https://247sports.com/college/virginia-tech/Board/59428/Contents/Coaching-Scoop-130267086/?Page=24
Coach K tries not to coach against his guys ( Exception is Jeff Capel at Pitt) don't know how Wojo feels.
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A&M ready to offer Buzz reportedly at least $3.5 million.
Will be interesting to see what he does.
Follow the Money.
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Follow the Money.
Buzz will have been making more money at MU in 2020 than we will be at A&M in 2020.
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Coach K tries not to coach against his guys ( Exception is Jeff Capel at Pitt) don't know how Wojo feels.
Mike Brey, hey.
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Buzz will have been making more money at MU in 2020 than we will be at A&M in 2020.
Might be true, but how about 2021-22-23-24 are MU pockets as deep as A&M?
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Until there's an extension in place, I assume we'll see Wojo mentioned for most every HM opening.
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Mike Brey, hey.
You're right, I should have said Guys that played for him.
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You're right, I should have said Guys that played for him.
His was a very circuitous path, so I got your point...really what I was saying is that ND sucks.
Back to Wojo, though, and job openings, has anyone heard anything from him? Radio silence
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I just checked Trulia for College Station, and an 8-bedroom, 3-bath, 1-panic room house was just sold for $2.4M.
Wrap it up.
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Wojo in the top 3 list to Virginia Tech. ;D
https://247sports.com/college/virginia-tech/Board/59428/Contents/Coaching-Scoop-130267086/?Page=24
Wait!?! There's really a VTScoop!?! Trendsetters we are...
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Wait!?! There's really a VTScoop!?! Trendsetters we are...
It’s too bad Topper used the brand mark paperwork as an Arby’s napkin, and the dried Horsey Sauce is acting like White Out on the key protection paragraph of the legal document.
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Roy Williams to MU! Wait didn't he just get humiliated by Auburn.
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https://sports.yahoo.com/after-one-heartbreaking-loss-virginia-tech-braces-for-another-064602137.html
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Until there's an extension in place, I assume we'll see Wojo mentioned for most every HM opening.
Can't be true. For the first time in many many years we haven't had to worry about the coaching carousel because our coach would never be listed as a candidate for any other job.
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Reading their message board is pretty entertaining. It’d be funny to see blackshear grad transfer to A&M.
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I appreciate what Buzz has accomplished at VT and I'm personally grateful. And if he leaves for a job he’s always wanted I will wish him well. But——-if he allows KJ or other current players to follow him he will loose all my respect. It’s one thing for him to leave but for him to allow players to leave with him for his new school is to me totally disrespectful of VT which has been great to him and to all of the students and fans who have supported him over the last 5 years with their attendance and their money. Buzz says all the time it's more than basketball and that he teaches life lessons to his players. I agree and think that's great. But the life lesson here is you don't sabotage the people (institutions and fans) that have been good to you and supported you for the past 5 years for your own future gains.
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Hoiberg to Nebraska is a #donedeal.
And Bruce Pearl is a sleaze.
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Not good for St. John's
https://mobile.twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1112028733668540423
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Roy Williams to MU! Wait didn't he just get humiliated by Auburn.
By the Pearl Necklace, no less.
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https://twitter.com/rajannanavati/status/1112036819565199363?s=21
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Great list of replacements in line at Va Tech. Looks like we will see what style they want running the program.
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https://twitter.com/rajannanavati/status/1112036819565199363?s=21
Cronin could make sense there
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https://twitter.com/rajannanavati/status/1112036819565199363?s=21
It is funny that of the three top candidates from his “plugged in source”, Rajan could only spell Wojo’s name right.
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VT is going to have a hard time luring another current, established coach again this time. They pulled it off to everyone's shock with Buzz, but that just doesn't seem a very attractive job still. I don't think there's any way they get Marshall or Cronin.
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Cronin is tight with the AD at VT....if he is looking to move for whatever reason that could be a factor.
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Cronin is tight with the AD at VT....if he is looking to move for whatever reason that could be a factor.
Didn't know that. Definitely could factor in. Cronin would be able to step into much higher profile conference too if that appeals to him as well. We'll see.
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When Cronin was offered the UNLV job a few years ago the reason he stayed in Cincy was to be close to his daughter. He said as a divorced father he wanted to stay close to her. Don't know how old she is now...? Probably used UNLV to get a better contract.
Aren't Buzz and Cronin tight?
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Reading their message board is pretty entertaining. It’d be funny to see blackshear grad transfer to A&M.
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I appreciate what Buzz has accomplished at VT and I'm personally grateful. And if he leaves for a job he’s always wanted I will wish him well. But——-if he allows KJ or other current players to follow him he will loose all my respect. It’s one thing for him to leave but for him to allow players to leave with him for his new school is to me totally disrespectful of VT which has been great to him and to all of the students and fans who have supported him over the last 5 years with their attendance and their money. Buzz says all the time it's more than basketball and that he teaches life lessons to his players. I agree and think that's great. But the life lesson here is you don't sabotage the people (institutions and fans) that have been good to you and supported you for the past 5 years for your own future gains.
Here was another one with similar themes here.
The only thing I'm pissed about is the roster
The cupboard bill be absolutely bare next year - esp. if KBJ leaves. That's on Buzz. I don't want to believe this, but its almost like he was just building the program for this year and then he knew he was going to bolt.
I'm more than thankful for what we did on the court this year, but the guy was paid to be the coach for VT which includes manages future rosters, whether he plans to be here or not.
[Post edited by UpstateSCHokie at 03/30/2019 12:28PM]
https://virginiatech.sportswar.com/mid/11729885/board/vtbasketball/
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When Cronin was offered the UNLV job a few years ago the reason he stayed in Cincy was to be close to his daughter. He said as a divorced father he wanted to stay close to her. Don't know how old she is now...? Probably used UNLV to get a better contract.
Aren't Buzz and Cronin tight?
Yes.....Cronin suggested Buzz to the VT AD who he used to work for iirc.
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Yes.....Cronin suggested Buzz to the VT AD who he used to work for iirc.
Thanks for refreshing my memory. I knew there was a connection.
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Here was another one with similar themes here.
The only thing I'm pissed about is the roster
The cupboard bill be absolutely bare next year - esp. if KBJ leaves. That's on Buzz. I don't want to believe this, but its almost like he was just building the program for this year and then he knew he was going to bolt.
I'm more than thankful for what we did on the court this year, but the guy was paid to be the coach for VT which includes manages future rosters, whether he plans to be here or not.
[Post edited by UpstateSCHokie at 03/30/2019 12:28PM]
https://virginiatech.sportswar.com/mid/11729885/board/vtbasketball/
We need to get Heisy over there stat to explain that the cupboard isn’t bare.
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When Buzz takes over at A&M, it will be interesting who he asks to join him on staff. Yahoo said Benford was coming along. Given his ties to Buzz, I would not be shocked if Joe Fulce came along with him as well in some capacity (since he is from Texas). Jamie McNeilly has been with Buzz every where since New Orleans - have to think he comes along too. Jeff Reynolds is also a current assistant at A&M, probably a fit there as well. Toss in Dale Layer for another off-court role, and you probably have your full staff.
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Of all the things going on in CBB, Nancy writes about BBQ’s and recordings of rival recruits? They have a Kansas assistant on tape talking about payment issues with Zion and no one talks about it. Coach K calls it a blip.
It’s not just the BBQ it’s the circumstances surrrounding it. It’s shows unethical Pearl is as a person.
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Reading their message board is pretty entertaining. It’d be funny to see blackshear grad transfer to A&M.
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I appreciate what Buzz has accomplished at VT and I'm personally grateful. And if he leaves for a job he’s always wanted I will wish him well. But——-if he allows KJ or other current players to follow him he will loose all my respect. It’s one thing for him to leave but for him to allow players to leave with him for his new school is to me totally disrespectful of VT which has been great to him and to all of the students and fans who have supported him over the last 5 years with their attendance and their money. Buzz says all the time it's more than basketball and that he teaches life lessons to his players. I agree and think that's great. But the life lesson here is you don't sabotage the people (institutions and fans) that have been good to you and supported you for the past 5 years for your own future gains.
LOL I wonder what they said when Ahmed Hill followed Buzz there
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Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Sources: Fred Hoiberg's deal terms with Nebraska: Seven years, $25M. He is signing the contract this afternoon.
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Jon Rothstein @JonRothstein
7h7 hours ago
Sources: Texas A&M is expected to offer Virginia Tech's Buzz Williams a multi-year deal worth a minimum of $3.5 million dollars annually to be its next head basketball coach. Aggies have no secondary candidate.
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VT is going to have a hard time luring another current, established coach again this time. They pulled it off to everyone's shock with Buzz, but that just doesn't seem a very attractive job still. I don't think there's any way they get Marshall or Cronin.
They certainly will have trouble at the salary they gave Buzz, who was desperate to get out of Milwaukee. I'm not sure how deep VT's pockets are. If they offer enough, they might pull off another surprise. It is the ACC, and they did get a taste of what success could be like these last couple years.
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Until there's an extension in place, I assume we'll see Wojo mentioned for most every HM opening.
Why would an extension matter? For the most part, extensions are a joke.
The only ones locked in, with no penalty to pay, are the athletes -- the people who make college sports possible.
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Mick Cronin can go to VT and lock in battle to the death with Tony Bennett for who can score less over a season
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Mick Cronin can go to VT and lock in battle to the death with Tony Bennett for who can score less over a season
UVA was pretty middle of the pack in scoring in the ACC.
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Anyone else find it a little weird there's been no legitimate buzz (no pun) around our coach since the day he got here?
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Anyone else find it a little weird there's been no legitimate buzz (no pun) around our coach since the day he got here?
Not really. Buzz especially was famous for using media guys as conduits so as to enhance his own 'rumors'. Wojo doesn't do that at all to the best of my knowledge.
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Anyone else find it a little weird there's been no legitimate buzz (no pun) around our coach since the day he got here?
Guess he is not getting the job done to warrant any buzz.
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Anyone else find it a little weird there's been no legitimate buzz (no pun) around our coach since the day he got here?
MuMark just posted a tweet saying that VT reached out to Wojo.
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Some wishful thinking from a UNLV fan made me chuckle:
ML Squared @M_L_Squared Mar 23 2019
Replying to @JeffWaddilove @NYPost_Brazille and 3 others
Steve Wojciechowski loves UNLV. He's followed the program from afar.
Imagine Markus Howard flying down the court like he's Greg Anthony. #UNLV @DRFrancois1
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LOL I wonder what they said when Ahmed Hill followed Buzz there
Good question to pose to them.
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From Hokie Scoop:
texashokie1 said... (original post)
Why do we want Wojo when Marquette fans want to fire him. I read there message board and they would love for us to take him.
Response:
A lot of their fans didn’t like Buzz either, that worked out pretty good for us in the short term.
They are also eyeing up our recruits to steal. MU Scoop would be in a meltdown mode if we lost two coaches to the Gobblers. Cheeks would also head right into Anaphylactic Shock if the recruits followed Wojo.
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I suppose anything can happen, but Wojo to VT would be one of the strangest things I have ever seen.
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From Hokie Scoop:
They are also eyeing up our recruits to steal. MU Scoop would be in a meltdown mode if we lost two coaches to the Gobblers. Cheeks would also head right into Anaphylactic Shock if the recruits followed Wojo.
That’s funny. A few Buzz years has given that fan base a very inflated view of their program
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Anyone else find it a little weird there's been no legitimate buzz (no pun) around our coach since the day he got here?
UNLV and VT both are buzzing about Wojo some.
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If Wojo left for VT I would be more depressed at the state of the Marquette program than I have since the Dukiet years. When Buzz left, it was pretty obvious that Buzz wanted a change. But this would signify that Marquette is indeed a stepping stone - and a stepping stone to a mid-level ACC team. Not a blueblood.
That being said, I would be really surprised if this happens.
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UNLV and VT both are buzzing about Wojo some.
0% chance for either of them
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That’s funny. A few Buzz years has given that fan base a very inflated view of their program
Remember when they put Scott Monarch's photo up on their website instead of Buzz? Their SID didn't even know who they hired.
Hopefully, TAMU can help them in College Station with finding the right Buzz picture. Or he could have a little fun...and photoshop a picture of Topper with a BnC...
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Dear Jesus,
As you drove the money changers from the Temple please compel Virginia Tech to offer Wojo a job. And just as you changed to water into wine make Wojo want a change of scenery to move to Blacksburg.
In the same way you raised Lazurus from the dead and fed the 5,000 let the hopes and dreams of the Marquette faithful be reinvigorated and come back to life with a full measure of vim, vigor, and vitality.
We ask this in the name of the Lord.
Thanks, Jesus!
Col Barry McCochinher, USAF
PS, we should grab a beer together if you are in Seattle.
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From Hokie Scoop:
They are also eyeing up our recruits to steal. MU Scoop would be in a meltdown mode if we lost two coaches to the Gobblers. Cheeks would also head right into Anaphylactic Shock if the recruits followed Wojo.
Speaking of recruits...Kerry Blackshear as a grad transfer? 🤤
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Dear Jesus,
As you drove the money changers from the Temple please compel Virginia Tech to offer Wojo a job. And just as you changed to water into wine make Wojo want a change of scenery to move to Blacksburg.
In the same way you raised Lazurus from the dead and fed the 5,000 let the hopes and dreams of the Marquette faithful be reinvigorated and come back to life with a full measure of vim, vigor, and vitality.
We ask this in the name of the Lord.
Thanks, Jesus!
Col Barry McCochinher, USAF
PS, we should grab a beer together if you are in Seattle.
Internet Evangelist.
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Speaking of recruits...Kerry Blackshear as a grad transfer? 🤤
He’s looked good in Maroon before hey?
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Internet Evangelist.
I talk to JC from time to time.
Don't you??
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From Hokie Scoop:
They are also eyeing up our recruits to steal. MU Scoop would be in a meltdown mode if we lost two coaches to the Gobblers. Cheeks would also head right into Anaphylactic Shock if the recruits followed Wojo.
And having lost two coaches to VaTech, some Scoopers would complain about MU not landing Tony Bennett or Chris Beard as Wojo's replacement.
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I suppose anything can happen, but Wojo to VT would be one of the strangest things I have ever seen.
Why?? I mean I could see a bit of appeal...It would put him back in the ACC where his roots are, and maybe more importantly puts him back closer to home...The downside?? he'd have to Coach against Coach K at least once a year which I don't think he would care for. That being said, I would be utterly SHOCKED if Va Tech offered him the job.
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And having lost two coaches to VaTech, some Scoopers would complain about MU not landing Tony Bennett or Chris Beard as Wojo's replacement.
Want no part of Bennett and that slow down offense...no thanks. I'd take Chris Beard in a heartbeat though. But that wouldn't happen.
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Want no part of Bennett and that slow down offense...no thanks. I'd take Chris Beard in a heartbeat though. But that wouldn't happen.
What? Bennett is a top 10 coach. He’d have Marquette winning consistently. But there is zero chance he comes here.
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What? Bennett is a top 10 coach. He’d have Marquette winning consistently. But there is zero chance he comes here.
Why do you say that? The zero percent?
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Want no part of Bennett and that slow down offense...no thanks. I'd take Chris Beard in a heartbeat though. But that wouldn't happen.
Chris Beard teams are slow as well. Not Bennett slow but still methodical
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And having lost two coaches to VaTech, some Scoopers would complain about MU not landing Tony Bennett or Chris Beard as Wojo's replacement.
Yup. Some people are offended by MU fans contemplating whether we’d be better off with Wardle or Stan running the program (because those are guys that would actually be options for us) while saying their top 3 would be Bennett, Beard, and Kelvin Sampson. LOL!
Explains why there is such a loud minority on here whining about everything and anything they can find to cry about. There’s being realistic and then being off your meds. Let’s just throw Popovich, a reincarnated Al McGuire, a time machined Phil Jackson, Brad Stevens, Coach K, Roy Williams, and Coach Cal to our list while we’re contemplating our phone calls to Beard, Bennett, and Sampson. All just as likely as those 3. Heck, maybe all these guys agree to be on staff, from head to assistant coaches to DOBO to volunteer assistants. We got this.
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Yup. Some people are offended by MU fans contemplating whether we’d be better off with Wardle or Stan running the program (because those are guys that would actually be options for us) while saying their top 3 would be Bennett, Beard, and Kelvin Sampson. LOL!
Explains why there is such a loud minority on here whining about everything and anything they can find to cry about. There’s being realistic and then being off your meds. Let’s just throw Popovich, a reincarnated Al McGuire, a time machined Phil Jackson, Brad Stevens, Coach K, Roy Williams, and Coach Cal to our list while we’re contemplating our phone calls to Beard, Bennett, and Sampson. All just as likely as those 3. Heck, maybe all these guys agree to be on staff, from head to assistant coaches to DOBO to volunteer assistants. We got this.
If you think those 3 would be the type of options for MU, then you know absolutely nothing about previous MU applicants. Just saying..they can do MUCH better then those 3, if previous applicants are any indication. Then again, the MU job was a better job when Crean/Buzz left too.
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I suppose anything can happen, but Wojo to VT would be one of the strangest things I have ever seen.
The best analogy I could think of was when Brett Bilema left Wisconsin football on his own volition to go to Arkansas football. He did it for the money and to coach in the SEC even though The Hogs were second tier. For $20 million coaches will do strange things....
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If you think those 3 would be the type of options for MU, then you know absolutely nothing about previous MU applicants. Just saying..they can do MUCH better then those 3, if previous applicants are any indication. Then again, the MU job was a better job when Crean/Buzz left too.
I gave 2 options, and only 1 that I think would get more than a courtesy look. But either of those 2 are INFINITELY more likely than Chris Beard, Tony Bennett, or Kelvin Sampson.
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Why do you say that? The zero percent?
I don't know anything. I'm just assuming.
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Didn't UNLV just hire TJO? Why are people still mentioning them?
Beard LOVES TTU. Said it's his dream job (his local ties make this a believable statement).
If MU admin/BOT refused to consider Howland, they sure as hell aren't hiring Sampson.
Why would Bennett come to MU? Local ties?
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I don't know anything. I'm just assuming.
Based on past hiring processes, that may be a bad assumption. There is a reason Cheeks says MU should have waited in the past.
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Yup. Some people are offended by MU fans contemplating whether we’d be better off with Wardle or Stan running the program (because those are guys that would actually be options for us) while saying their top 3 would be Bennett, Beard, and Kelvin Sampson. LOL!
Explains why there is such a loud minority on here whining about everything and anything they can find to cry about. There’s being realistic and then being off your meds. Let’s just throw Popovich, a reincarnated Al McGuire, a time machined Phil Jackson, Brad Stevens, Coach K, Roy Williams, and Coach Cal to our list while we’re contemplating our phone calls to Beard, Bennett, and Sampson. All just as likely as those 3. Heck, maybe all these guys agree to be on staff, from head to assistant coaches to DOBO to volunteer assistants. We got this.
this is very sad to me that this is what you think of the program. MU is a top 25 program all time. They spend a ton on the program, pay top dollar and play in a top 3 to 5 conference. Why do you undersell the program like this. Explains why mediocrity is accepted and celebrated. Hell let's join the Maac conference and become a mid major or is that aiming to high for you
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Based on past hiring processes, that may be a bad assumption. There is a reason Cheeks says MU should have waited in the past.
I bow to your wisdom
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this is very sad to me that this is what you think of the program. MU is a top 25 program all time. They spend a ton on the program, pay top dollar and play in a top 3 to 5 conference. Why do you undersell the program like this. Explains why mediocrity is accepted and celebrated. Hell let's join the Maac conference and become a mid major or is that aiming to high for you
What?
So your list would start with Beard/Bennett/Sampson too? Fair enough, just be prepared for it to go to option 4 or beyond.
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Based on past hiring processes, that may be a bad assumption. There is a reason Cheeks says MU should have waited in the past.
But for 30 minutes or so and no one would have ever debated Buzz or Wojo.
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What?
So your list would start with Beard/Bennett/Sampson too? Fair enough, just be prepared for it to go to option 4 or beyond.
no not necessarily, but you shouldn't settle for the coaches you are suggesting either. So you think Texas Tech is a better program and conference than MU, again that is sad. I don't like Sampson, Bennet is probably not leaving VA but there is no reason MU can't attract top coaching talent.
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no not necessarily, but you shouldn't settle for the coaches you are suggesting either. So you think Texas Tech is a better program and conference than MU, again that is sad. I don't like Sampson, Bennet is probably not leaving VA but there is no reason MU can't attract top coaching talent.
I think Wardle would get a courtesy interview. I think Stan would be a last resort hire.
But Beard, Bennett, and Sampson are not coming to Marquette, and no that does not mean Houston or Texas Tech are better programs than Marquette.
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So you think Texas Tech is a better program and conference than MU, again that is sad.
I don't think that's the case with Beard. But he's from Texas & Big 12 schools can play. I think if he leaves it's for Texas or a blue blood.
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I think Wardle would get a courtesy interview.
I believe he did last go around.
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I think Wardle would get a courtesy interview. I think Stan would be a last resort hire.
But Beard, Bennett, and Sampson are not coming to Marquette, and no that does not mean Houston or Texas Tech are better programs than Marquette.
ok thank you. Bennett may want to come home at some point but he has a pretty good gig at VA. Sampson I could care less about, I am not sure why you are so sure about Beard
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ok thank you. Bennett may want to come home at some point but he has a pretty good gig at VA. Sampson I could care less about, I am not sure why you are so sure about Beard
He was an assistant coach at Texas Tech and grew up and went to college in Texas. And he has his program rolling. I don’t see him leaving, especially not to come to the Midwest.
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Beard is also the divorced father of three daughters who live in west Texas. He has called Texas Tech his dream job. He isn't coming to Milwaukee.
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He was an assistant coach at Texas Tech and grew up and went to college in Texas. And he has his program rolling. I don’t see him leaving, especially not to come to the Midwest.
ok I didn't know much about him probably in line for UT then. The thing is those blue blood programs don't come open that frequently.
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Tony Bennett ain't cumin'. Feels slighted since his old man wasn't even interviewed by MU when he was hot chit at UWGB. Bad decision bye MU and has cum back ta byte dem in da ass several tymes, aina?
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Tony Bennett ain't cumin'. Feels slighted since his old man wasn't even interviewed by MU when he was hot chit at UWGB. Bad decision bye MU and has cum back ta byte dem in da ass several tymes, aina?
Not to mention he’s had arguably the second best program in the country over the last half decade.
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Tony Bennett ain't cumin'. Feels slighted since his old man wasn't even interviewed by MU when he was hot chit at UWGB. Bad decision bye MU and has cum back ta byte dem in da ass several tymes, aina?
Was that when they hired Deane?
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Tony Bennett ain't cumin'. Feels slighted since his old man wasn't even interviewed by MU when he was hot chit at UWGB. Bad decision bye MU and has cum back ta byte dem in da ass several tymes, aina?
That's...not why at all...
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Was that when they hired Deane?
Ah huh, dat's write
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That's...not why at all...
Lay yo inside knowledge on us all den, hey?
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Lay yo inside knowledge on us all den, hey?
Its far more about Mrs. Bennett among other things?
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Beard is also the divorced father of three daughters who live in west Texas. He has called Texas Tech his dream job. He isn't coming to Milwaukee.
Yep. He was UNLV's coach for ~ 19 days when the Texas Tech job suddenly became available (Tubby Smith to Memphis after Josh Pastner went to Georgia Tech).
https://sports.yahoo.com/how-texas-tech-poached-chris-beard-from-unlv-setting-two-programs-on-divergent-paths-015036321.html
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Its far more about Mrs. Bennett among other things?
It was at first in 2009, then Tony changed his mind too late.
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Lay yo inside knowledge on us all den, hey?
The problem with Tony was timing. It had nothing to do with the Deane hiring process.
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I’ve never heard anything about Bennett not coming to MU because his dad was shunned here. All I ever herd was that his dad was upset Tony didn’t get a look from UW. Many thought in the past Tony would come to MU to get back at UW. That may not be 100% true but the MU shunning is definitely not true.
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Don’t think Bennett would come but I would love to get him. All you complaining about slow, winning basketball are crazy. I don’t care how we win. Just win. Consistently.
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Ders sum krayzee dum therees round deez purts.
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I talk to JC from time to time.
Don't you??
Every Day.
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Lay yo inside knowledge on us all den, hey?
How dare you challenge the Hoops Yoda of Scoop. You forget yourself, sir!
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I talk to JC from time to time.
Don't you??
I dropped his name frequently during MU's last 6 or so games.
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One coaching position I would like to see is for MU to hire Duane Wilson as a graduate assistant . I was very impressed at how he conducted himself that last year at Texas A and M. He is a solid leader and can relate to the younger kids on the team . Given the surplus of talent locally a helpful recruiting asset as well.1
It would not surprise me if Buzz reaches out to him at the new gig. Wojo should get there first.
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Want no part of Bennett and that slow down offense...no thanks. I'd take Chris Beard in a heartbeat though. But that wouldn't happen.
Yeah it would just suck having Bennett as Marquette’s coach. 🙄
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One coaching position I would like to see is for MU to hire Duane Wilson as a graduate assistant . I was very impressed at how he conducted himself that last year at Texas A and M. He is a solid leader and can relate to the younger kids on the team . Given the surplus of talent locally a helpful recruiting asset as well.1
It would not surprise me if Buzz reaches out to him at the new gig. Wojo should get there first.
You crack me up.
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Yeah it would just suck having Bennett as Marquette’s coach. 🙄
No sh!t...he is worth twice as much as wojo...nice run in the tourney...more impressive is their consistency in the acc. That family can coach.
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One coaching position I would like to see is for MU to hire Duane Wilson as a graduate assistant . I was very impressed at how he conducted himself that last year at Texas A and M. He is a solid leader and can relate to the younger kids on the team . Given the surplus of talent locally a helpful recruiting asset as well.1
It would not surprise me if Buzz reaches out to him at the new gig. Wojo should get there first.
Buzz already has Joe Fulce as his guy in that role. Maybe Buzz should also reach out to the other ex player you mention, and show us his instagram/twitter stuff, JJJ. Maybe he takes a Virginia Tech player and not kids he coached over five years ago.
Are those kids even living in Milwaukee?
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Buzz already has Joe Fulce as his guy in that role. Maybe Buzz should also reach out to the other ex player you mention, and show us his instagram/twitter stuff, JJJ. Maybe he takes a Virginia Tech player and not kids he coached over five years ago.
Are those kids even living in Milwaukee?
Fulce can get a promotion. The young kids at A and M know and respect Duane.
Duane’s Dad is a major figure in Club ball in Milwaukee
Not that hard to connect the dots on this potential hire.
Wojo needs some outreach to the players here in Milwaukee which is why I think he would be wise to make this kind of move.
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Yeah it would just suck having Bennett as Marquette’s coach. 🙄
Tonight's results not withstanding...I would feel like I was rooting for/supporting UW if TB was MU's Coach..Same style's. HATE it. Now North Carolina's style on the other hand...sign me up any day for that!
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Fulce can get a promotion. The young kids at A and M know and respect Duane.
Duane’s Dad is a major figure in Club ball in Milwaukee
Not that hard to connect the dots on this potential hire.
Wojo needs some outreach to the players here in Milwaukee which is why I think he would be wise to make this kind of move.
OK. But does Wojo and his staff talk to Duane's Dad personally, or do they have to go through Duane?
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OK. But does Wojo and his staff talk to Duane's Dad personally, or do they have to go through Duane?
There are limits on what a grad assistant can do externally . So outbound contacts would need to be made by those on coaching staff who are authorized to make those contacts. Once the kids are inside the tent then a different level of contact.
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One coaching position I would like to see is for MU to hire Duane Wilson as a graduate assistant . I was very impressed at how he conducted himself that last year at Texas A and M. He is a solid leader and can relate to the younger kids on the team . Given the surplus of talent locally a helpful recruiting asset as well.1
It would not surprise me if Buzz reaches out to him at the new gig. Wojo should get there first.
You have a wild imagination my man
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You have a wild imagination my man
Life is good.
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The best analogy I could think of was when Brett Bilema left Wisconsin football on his own volition to go to Arkansas football. He did it for the money and to coach in the SEC even though The Hogs were second tier. For $20 million coaches will do strange things....
For $20 million the list of strange stuff I would do would be pretty damn long.......
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How dare you challenge the Hoops Yoda of Scoop. You forget yourself, sir!
You young and old cats don't know as much as the tweezers, Any a? TB was in grasp
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I just have a feeling we may be losing Stan this offseason.
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Tonight's results not withstanding...I would feel like I was rooting for/supporting UW if TB was MU's Coach..Same style's. HATE it. Now North Carolina's style on the other hand...sign me up any day for that!
You don't complain about the results and celebrate the F4, but its gotta kind of be frustrating as a UVA fan. You have Guy, Jerome, Hunter, and Diakite who can get up and score with the best of them, but you still play the plodding stall style. Tonight was a prime example of it. Be efficient and measured, sure, but score for the love of god when you have the weapons!
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It was at first in 2009, then Tony changed his mind too late.
I've heard this also from contacts in Virginia.
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I’d heard that TB had a buyout for every school in the country, save UW. Not sure if that’s why they dragged their feet with Gard.
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Tonight's results not withstanding...I would feel like I was rooting for/supporting UW if TB was MU's Coach..Same style's. HATE it. Now North Carolina's style on the other hand...sign me up any day for that!
So if I told you Marquette would make the final four, and the only sacrifice you had to make was watching them play slower, you wouldn't take it.
Eye don't geev two chits about style o' play, as long azz wee win, hey?
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So if I told you Marquette would make the final four, and the only sacrifice you had to make was watching them play slower, you wouldn't take it.
Eye don't geev two chits about style o' play, as long azz wee win, hey?
If it was GUARANTEED, sure I'd take it, who wouldn't?? But over the long term, I just don't think styles like that are sustainable for long NCAA tourney runs(see, last year). I'd rather have a run and gun style(like North Carolina), with those type of athletes.
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If it was GUARANTEED, sure I'd take it, who wouldn't?? But over the long term, I just don't think styles like that are sustainable for long NCAA tourney runs(see, last year). I'd rather have a run and gun style(like North Carolina), with those type of athletes.
Yeah...not like his dad had ncaa success at UW and now tb has his team in the ff in relatively short order. Defense travels...
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Yeah...not like his dad had ncaa success at UW and now tb has his team in the ff in relatively short order. Defense travels...
I'm not sure what you mean by "short order." This was his tenth season at UVA.
But the idea that somehow Bennett wouldn't be a good choice for Marquette because they would play too much like UW is really something.
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You young and old cats don't know as much as the tweezers, Any a? TB was in grasp
This.
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I'm not sure what you mean by "short order." This was his tenth season at UVA
Maybe the style of play slows everything down around it and it just SEEMS like he's been there 10 yrs. Maybe he's actually only been there 3 years
In all seriousness, while watching that game last night, I had the thought "this is slow, boring basketball?"
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Maybe the style of play slows everything down around it and it just SEEMS like he's been there 10 yrs. Maybe he's actually only been there 3 years
In all seriousness, while watching that game last night, I had the thought "this is slow, boring basketball?"
You realize it took them until OT to score 80 points?? Well for Virginia, last night was exciting basketball..There are teams(like UNC) that AVERAGE over 80 points per game.
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It was exciting for Virginia fans because they won. Marquette's Elite 8 team under Buzz didn't exactly set the world on fire pace-wise.
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I just have a feeling we may be losing Stan this offseason.
Repeating this again for the morning crowd.
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It was exciting for Virginia fans because they won. Marquette's Elite 8 team under Buzz didn't exactly set the world on fire pace-wise.
That Elite 8 team averaged 68.1 ppg. Guru must have been miserable that season.
And, fwiw, Virginia averages 71.3 ppg this year.
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Repeating this again for the morning crowd.
Life will go on.
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Repeating this again for the morning crowd.
Any idea where he lands?
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Not sure if discussed already, but looks like St John's losing their best recruiter
Edit - shortened URL that works: https://goo.gl/KNczPC
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Repeating this again for the morning crowd.
Repeat it one more time including destination and you'll get a lollipop.
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Repeat it one more time including destination and you'll get a lollipop.
Say it three times in the mirror and Stan will appear behind you.
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You realize it took them until OT to score 80 points?? Well for Virginia, last night was exciting basketball..There are teams(like UNC) that AVERAGE over 80 points per game.
Not against Virginia they don't......NC has played Virginia 3 times over the last 2 years.....they are 0-3.....that high powered offense scored 49.....63 and 61.
Virginia's offense may be slow paced but the big difference this season is that it is the 2nd most efficient in the country.......last year it was only 30.
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I’d heard that TB had a buyout for every school in the country, save UW. Not sure if that’s why they dragged their feet with Gard.
Lets say Wisconsin did want him, and Virginia allowed Bennett to buy out for any team EXCEPT Wisconsin. For the sake of argument, let's say the buyout is $1 million.
a) Bennett expresses interest in the Wisconsin job but claims he's stuck by his buyout.
b) Wisconsin puts out word that they'd be willing to pay a buyout that's $500,000 more than the current Virginia buyout should some other school ever pry Bennet away from Virginia.
b) A perpetually underfunded D1 program puts 2 and 2 together and realizes that they could double their basketball operating budget if they hire Bennett, knowing that Wisconsin immediately offers Bennett and buys out the new contract. Grambling pays the $1 million buyout to Virginia, Bennett signs a new contract with Grambling with a $1.5 million buyout.
c) Wisconsin then hires Bennett from Grambling, paying the $1.5 million buyout to Grambing.
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Lets say Wisconsin did want him, and Virginia allowed Bennett to buy out for any team EXCEPT Wisconsin. For the sake of argument, let's say the buyout is $1 million.
a) Bennett expresses interest in the Wisconsin job but claims he's stuck by his buyout.
b) Wisconsin puts out word that they'd be willing to pay a buyout that's $500,000 more than the current Virginia buyout should some other school ever pry Bennet away from Virginia.
b) A perpetually underfunded D1 program puts 2 and 2 together and realizes that they could double their basketball operating budget if they hire Bennett, knowing that Wisconsin immediately offers Bennett and buys out the new contract. Grambling pays the $1 million buyout to Virginia, Bennett signs a new contract with Grambling with a $1.5 million buyout.
c) Wisconsin then hires Bennett from Grambling, paying the $1.5 million buyout to Grambing.
I believe there would be some illegalities there.
Also, I believe the original assertion was that there was no buyout for Bennett to go to Wisconsin, meaning it was $0. He could have left free and clear if he wanted to. I don't believe that. I also don't believe he had any interest whatsoever in UW.
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I believe there would be some illegalities there.
Also, I believe the original assertion was that there was no buyout for Bennett to go to Wisconsin, meaning it was $0. He could have left free and clear if he wanted to. I don't believe that. I also don't believe he had any interest whatsoever in UW.
Tony Bennett will never Coach for UW
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I believe there would be some illegalities there.
Also, I believe the original assertion was that there was no buyout for Bennett to go to Wisconsin, meaning it was $0. He could have left free and clear if he wanted to. I don't believe that. I also don't believe he had any interest whatsoever in UW.
Aha--I misunderstood--I thought no buyout meant that Bennett couldn't buy out his contract if he were signing with Wisconsin.
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Bennett's contract is a public document. His current buyout, depending on circumstances, is about $750,000. There are no exceptions for Wisconsin or any other school.
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Bennett's contract is a public document. His current buyout, depending on circumstances, is about $750,000. There are no exceptions for Wisconsin or any other school.
What fun would fan message boards be if discussions are based on actual correct information? For it to succeed it must be based on falsehoods and made up information.
We don't need your kind here!
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Say it three times in the mirror and Stan will appear behind you.
And will be able to clearly decode his tweets
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What fun would fan message boards be if discussions are based on actual correct information? For it to succeed it must be based on falsehoods and made up information.
We don't need your kind here!
Just saying what I had heard 3.5 years ago. Just like when I heard Herro was going to UK for a year and then transferring to MU. Madison people...
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From Seth Davis, so take it fwiw .... UCLA offered Calipari a 6 year/$48 million contract, but he turned it down after Kentucky gave him a "lifetime extension."
UCLA then got shot down by Thad Matta and is now awaiting Tony Bennett.
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Shot down my Thad Matta?? UCLA must really be a hot mess.
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From Seth Davis, so take it fwiw .... UCLA offered Calipari a 6 year/$48 million contract, but he turned it down after Kentucky gave him a "lifetime extension."
UCLA then got shot down by Thad Matta and is now awaiting Tony Bennett.
Wonder how long it will take for reality (and Eric Musselmann) to set in.
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Shot down my Thad Matta?? UCLA must really be a hot mess.
The same thing happened when they ended up with Alford. That job isn't nearly as good as they think it is.
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UCLA should go after Chris Beard. Makes $3.1m at Texas Tech.
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UCLA should go after Chris Beard. Makes $3.1m at Texas Tech.
I don't think they'd have any shot at getting him. They might be able to match the salary, but they can't relocate his daughters. If he leaves, it will be for something relatively close to home (Texas would seem most likely).
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Jamie Dixon and Mick Cronin emerge as leading candidates at UCLA...
https://twitter.com/GaryParrishCBS/status/1112851793053089798
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https://mobile.twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1112854101677801474
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Jamie Dixon and Mick Cronin emerge as leading candidates at UCLA...
https://twitter.com/GaryParrishCBS/status/1112851793053089798
So there's a whole other thread: "Buzz - is he off to Texas A&M?" - and no mention of the linked LA Times article?
Cronin could also be a candidate for the Virginia Tech vacancy that was created by Buzz Williams’ departure for Texas A&M. Cronin makes $2.2 million per season at Cincinnati, according to USA Today’s salary database, putting him in line for a considerable raise were he to come to UCLA.
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Adam Hill is a Las Vegas Review-Journal writer whose opinion I respect.
Eric Musselman in the mix for the Arkansas job (attached).
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So there's a whole other thread: "Buzz - is he off to Texas A&M?" - and no mention of the linked LA Times article?
They don't have correct info, Buzz has NOT officially left yet.
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So UCLA has had 4 months to figure out who to target and this is what is transpiring, bad news bears.
Maybe I'm crazy but coaches without any ties to he south taking jobs there seems like a bad idea, i.e. Oats or Muselmen.
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@AdamZagoria: As I reported here Mick Cronin and Jamie Dixon are among those in the mix at UCLA. Doesn’t sound like they’ll wait around for Luke Walton.
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Jamie Dixon and Mick Cronin emerge as leading candidates at UCLA...
https://twitter.com/GaryParrishCBS/status/1112851793053089798
Im not in the fire wojo camp...but i would prefer we had dixon or cronin...and i would have thought that caliber of a coach was within our reach. Amazed ucla cant get a bigger name...ugly for such a proud tradition of bball.
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@AdamZagoria: As I reported here Mick Cronin and Jamie Dixon are among those in the mix at UCLA. Doesn’t sound like they’ll wait around for Luke Walton.
Another Pitt coach to UCLA?
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Another Pitt coach to UCLA?
But he's not at Pitt any more.
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But he's not at Pitt any more.
I realize that, thanks.
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Maybe I'm crazy but coaches without any ties to he south taking jobs there seems like a bad idea, i.e. Oats or Muselmen.
K, Calipari, Donovan and now Pearl (among others) have done OK, no?
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Im not in the fire wojo camp...but i would prefer we had dixon or cronin...and i would have thought that caliber of a coach was within our reach. Amazed ucla cant get a bigger name...ugly for such a proud tradition of bball.
God no to Cronin. Dixon would be fine.
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Alford is always available in the event Wojo gets the $20 million from VT. Alford is looking at Arkansas.
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1113221098798243842
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Alford is always available in the event Wojo gets the $20 million from VT. Alford is looking at Arkansas.
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1113221098798243842
I would be shocked if this administration even thought about Alford once. Which I’m perfectly fine with.
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@AdamZagoria: As I reported here Mick Cronin and Jamie Dixon are among those in the mix at UCLA. Doesn’t sound like they’ll wait around for Luke Walton.
If there's even a 30% chance they could get Walton after he's run out of LAL, I think this is a mistake. He's a home run hire compared to what else they're looking at. The timing is weird especially if they prefer Dixon - I don't think he's going to get other offers this cycle that will be enough to leave TCU. Cronin there will probably some competition for.
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Alford is not and never will be available for the Marquette head men's basketball coach position.
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If there's even a 30% chance they could get Walton after he's run out of LAL, I think this is a mistake. He's a home run hire compared to what else they're looking at. The timing is weird especially if they prefer Dixon - I don't think he's going to get other offers this cycle that will be enough to leave TCU. Cronin there will probably some competition for.
I'd be pretty shocked if Dixon left TCU. He played there. He intentionally went to that program, even though he had better offers, because he wanted to be there. It would be weird if he then just up and left.
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I'd be pretty shocked if Dixon left TCU. He played there. He intentionally went to that program, even though he had better offers, because he wanted to be there. It would be weird if he then just up and left.
They’ve got money too from both TV money and boosters. They can match almost any offer.
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If there's even a 30% chance they could get Walton after he's run out of LAL, I think this is a mistake. He's a home run hire compared to what else they're looking at. The timing is weird especially if they prefer Dixon - I don't think he's going to get other offers this cycle that will be enough to leave TCU. Cronin there will probably some competition for.
Why is Walton a home run? No college experience and not very successful so far.
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Im not in the fire wojo camp...but i would prefer we had dixon or cronin...and i would have thought that caliber of a coach was within our reach. Amazed ucla cant get a bigger name...ugly for such a proud tradition of bball.
Not sure I could even be a Marquette fan if Cronin was our coach, and I didn’t think anything could make me say that. Possibly the least likable coach in the country in my mind. I am admittedly biased as a fan of Xavier, but no thanks.
I hope the Wojo bashers don’t have a be careful what you wish for “moment.” I’d like to see his tenure play out a bit longer with the talent we have currently and coming in.
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Not sure I could even be a Marquette fan if Cronin was our coach, and I didn’t think anything could make me say that. Possibly the least likable coach in the country in my mind. I am admittedly biased as a fan of Xavier, but no thanks.
I hope the Wojo bashers don’t have a be careful what you wish for “moment.” I’d like to see his tenure play out a bit longer with the talent we have currently and coming in.
Could you be a Marquette fan if Huggy Bear would have been our coach post Crean?
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Could you be a Marquette fan if Huggy Bear would have been our coach post Crean?
Haha. That's a tough one. Not a big fan of Huggy either, though I interviewed him a couple times and he was pretty funny to talk to. I wouldn't have been a fan of a huggy move, but probably disliked him less than Cronin. I'd prefer neither. BTW, I do think Cronin is a pretty good coach, it's more of a personality thing that I dislike.
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Why is Walton a home run? No college experience and not very successful so far.
I think his age, NBA experience and connections as a player and coach, UCLA's institutional advantages, and the current state of the Pac 12 will be enough to make him successful. UCLA and its alumni will really want him to be successful, and I think even though he doesn't have the track record of some of those other guys, he's in a much better position to leverage what makes UCLA a blueblood than bringing in those other names - even if they're objectively better coaches at this point.
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Jamie Dixon to UCLA, pending finalization of his buyout with TCU
https://twitter.com/GoJoeBruinUCLA/status/1113308015933808640
#BuzzToTCU
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Jamie Dixon to UCLA, pending finalization of his buyout with TCU
https://twitter.com/GoJoeBruinUCLA/status/1113308015933808640
#BuzzToTCU
It's UCLA! It's UCLA.
#WojoToTCU
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Better get for UCLA than I expected.
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Better get for UCLA than I expected.
Can't believe Cal declined the paycut they offered him
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Can't believe Cal declined the paycut they offered him
Must've been hard to turn down less money in a more expensive location
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Dixon following in Howland's footsteps again.
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Jamie Dixon to UCLA, pending finalization of his buyout with TCU
https://twitter.com/GoJoeBruinUCLA/status/1113308015933808640
#BuzzToTCU
I truly thought TCU would be his last coaching stop.
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I truly thought TCU would be his last coaching stop.
My recollection was that he wasn’t 100% thrilled to take that job even though it was his alma mater.
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Dixon played college basketball at TCU. When he was introduced as the head coach at his alma mater, his very first words were: "Well, dreams do come true."
A few other excerpts from the press conference:
"Everything I've gotten in my life is because of TCU."
"As far as basketball and why we're here, this just felt right. I've had a lot of opportunities at Pittsburgh the last 13 years to go other places. But to me, the most important thing was who I was going to work for. With Chancellor Boschini and Chris Del Conte, I knew them and I knew them well."
"When Jack (Dixon's son) said, 'I think I'm going to really like it here,' that confirmed it to me."
https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college-sports/tcuhornedfrogs/2016/03/22/jamie-dixon-now-time-return-tcu-plans-change-culture (https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college-sports/tcuhornedfrogs/2016/03/22/jamie-dixon-now-time-return-tcu-plans-change-culture)
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Dixon played college basketball at TCU. When he was introduced as the head coach at his alma mater, his very first words were: "Well, dreams do come true."
A few other excerpts from the press conference:
"Everything I've gotten in my life is because of TCU."
"As far as basketball and why we're here, this just felt right. I've had a lot of opportunities at Pittsburgh the last 13 years to go other places. But to me, the most important thing was who I was going to work for. With Chancellor Boschini and Chris Del Conte, I knew them and I knew them well."
"When Jack (Dixon's son) said, 'I think I'm going to really like it here,' that confirmed it to me."
https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college-sports/tcuhornedfrogs/2016/03/22/jamie-dixon-now-time-return-tcu-plans-change-culture (https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college-sports/tcuhornedfrogs/2016/03/22/jamie-dixon-now-time-return-tcu-plans-change-culture)
Obviously TCU messed with his happy.
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Dixon played college basketball at TCU. When he was introduced as the head coach at his alma mater, his very first words were: "Well, dreams do come true."
A few other excerpts from the press conference:
"Everything I've gotten in my life is because of TCU."
"As far as basketball and why we're here, this just felt right. I've had a lot of opportunities at Pittsburgh the last 13 years to go other places. But to me, the most important thing was who I was going to work for. With Chancellor Boschini and Chris Del Conte, I knew them and I knew them well."
"When Jack (Dixon's son) said, 'I think I'm going to really like it here,' that confirmed it to me."
https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college-sports/tcuhornedfrogs/2016/03/22/jamie-dixon-now-time-return-tcu-plans-change-culture (https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college-sports/tcuhornedfrogs/2016/03/22/jamie-dixon-now-time-return-tcu-plans-change-culture)
These are things coaches say. From what I remember is that he took the TCU job mostly because he was feeling the heat at Pitt. The fact that he's leaving three years later showed that it really wasn't his dream - or maybe he soured on the place later.
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These are things coaches say. From what I remember is that he took the TCU job mostly because he was feeling the heat at Pitt. The fact that he's leaving three years later showed that it really wasn't his dream - or maybe he soured on the place later.
Also might be more money and that he is from SoCal....?
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Also might be more money and that he is from SoCal....?
I don't think he would have left TCU for anywhere so yeah destination matters.
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I don't think he would have left TCU for anywhere so yeah destination matters.
Yep. He is going home. I actually think he is a good hire for the Bruins.
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Here's article on VaTech vacancy, with potential candidates, per Rivals. Yes, no Wojo.
https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/buzz-williams-leave-virginia-tech-what-s-next-for-hokies-
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They should be all over Ryan Odom, IMO. That would be a terrific hire.
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Jamie Dixon to UCLA, pending finalization of his buyout with TCU
Wait ... buyout?
When any of us who advocate for transferring athletes not having to sit out a year say, "Coaches don't have to sit out a year when they 'transfer,'" the comeback is always about the severe restriction that is the buyout clause.
I wonder how many times in history a buyout clause actually has kept a school from hiring the coach they wanted. Probably can count them on one hand. Maybe one finger.
What a crock.
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Wait ... buyout?
When any of us who advocate for transferring athletes not having to sit out a year say, "Coaches don't have to sit out a year when they 'transfer,'" the comeback is always about the severe restriction that is the buyout clause.
I wonder how many times in history a buyout clause actually has kept a school from hiring the coach they wanted. Probably can count them on one hand. Maybe one finger.
What a crock.
Severe restriction? Try contract law. Equating an employment contract to the pseudo-employee student-athletes is a false equivalency.
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Severe restriction? Try contract law. Equating an employment contract to the pseudo-employee student-athletes is a false equivalency.
A coach's "contract" doesn't prevent freedom of movement. He is absolutely, totally free to go from one multi-million-dollar job to another.
An athlete's "contract" shouldn't prevent freedom of movement, either.
I've been heartened by the number of exceptions and waivers the NCAA has granted the last couple of years and I hope the trend continues, but it's not enough. The mandatory sit-out rule has to go -- and I predict that it will at some point in the next few years.
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A coach's "contract" doesn't prevent freedom of movement. He is absolutely, totally free to go from one multi-million-dollar job to another.
An athlete's "contract" shouldn't prevent freedom of movement, either.
I've been heartened by the number of exceptions and waivers the NCAA has granted the last couple of years and I hope the trend continues, but it's not enough. The mandatory sit-out rule has to go -- and I predict that it will at some point in the next few years.
Both coaches and athletes have an anchor attached to their legal documents. For a coach, it is a buy out (and restrictions). For a basketball player, it's a sit out year. Both sets can be appealed, negotiated, negated or waived/released based on the conditions.
Freedom of movement is not a god given right, it's a contractual agreement signed voluntarily.
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Both coaches and athletes have an anchor attached to their legal documents. For a coach, it is a buy out (and restrictions). For a basketball player, it's a sit out year. Both sets can be appealed, negotiated, negated or waived/released based on the conditions.
Freedom of movement is not a god given right, it's a contractual agreement signed voluntarily.
That's a false equivalent.
School that hire coaches with buyout clauses don't bat an eye about paying off the buyouts. It's a non-issue.
The sit-out year is a big issue for the athlete. As I said, waivers are happening a little more now but they are by far the exception to the rule.
Can't play basketball without the players. They should have at least the same freedom-of-movement rights as the coaches, who become multimillionaires on the backs of their players.
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That's a false equivalent.
School that hire coaches with buyout clauses don't bat an eye about paying off the buyouts. It's a non-issue.
The sit-out year is a big issue for the athlete. As I said, waivers are happening a little more now but they are by far the exception to the rule.
Can't play basketball without the players. They should have at least the same freedom-of-movement rights as the coaches, who become multimillionaires on the backs of their players.
Essentially what you arguing is that players should be paid an income as well above their academic compensation. It's not a freedom of movement issue then.
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That's a false equivalent.
School that hire coaches with buyout clauses don't bat an eye about paying off the buyouts. It's a non-issue.
The sit-out year is a big issue for the athlete. As I said, waivers are happening a little more now but they are by far the exception to the rule.
Can't play basketball without the players. They should have at least the same freedom-of-movement rights as the coaches, who become multimillionaires on the backs of their players.
I don't disagree with any of this...but on the other hand, I don't like a kid leaving a school(any school), because the Coach that recruited him left. That's not the way it's supposed to work..I know it doesn't..but it should be that the kid commits to a school, not a Coach. When you sign that LOI you sign to play at xxxx University not for Xxxx Coach. Kids have to know going in that Coaches can leave or get fired at any time...it's no guarantee they will be there for your entire career, but the school will be there.
It just bothers me...If your Coach leaves before your time is up...you know what?? That's too bad, but suck it up and finish out your career to the SCHOOL you committed to.
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So let me pose this theoretical, if players are paid, should they be required to sign buy-out clauses if they want to transfer and play immediately?
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So let me pose this theoretical, if players are paid, should they be required to sign buy-out clauses if they want to transfer and play immediately?
I say yes...because it goes along with what i said above...players are SUPPOSED to be committing to that school, not a particular coach, and the school would be paying you(not the Coach, well at least at most schools :P). Know what you're getting into before you commit to that school.
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Must've been hard to turn down less money in a more expensive location
To be fair, if I could make $10M/year in Lexington or $8M/year in Westwood I think I'd take the $8M/year in SoCal.
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Essentially what you arguing is that players should be paid an income as well above their academic compensation. It's not a freedom of movement issue then.
Call it whatever you want. Call it "Fred" if you want to. I am saying that athletes should be free agents every year, just as coaches are.
So let me pose this theoretical, if players are paid, should they be required to sign buy-out clauses if they want to transfer and play immediately?
Sure. Although, theoretically, the school that gets them out of the buyout clause would simply pay the buyout, just as happens with coaches. So this buyout clause, theoretically, would be equally meaningless.
I don't like a kid leaving a school(any school), because the Coach that recruited him left.
It just bothers me...If your Coach leaves before your time is up...you know what?? That's too bad, but suck it up and finish out your career to the SCHOOL you committed to.
It doesn't matter if you don't like it or it bothers you. You aren't affected one iota.
Very easy for you to tell those affected to "suck it up."
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MU82 cant u recognize when you sound like an idiot? Is this editor-less posting?
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..but it should be that the kid commits to a school, not a Coach.
The kid almost always commits to the Coach. To believe otherwise is foolhardy. To wish for something different is a sandwich.
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MU82 cant u recognize when you sound like an idiot? Is this editor-less posting?
Says the guy who can't spell or use grammar correctly.
Yes, thinking that the athlete should have control over his/her own future and should face no more barriers to freedom of movement than the coach who gets rich off his back ... how idiotic!
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Says the guy who can't spell or use grammar correctly.
Yes, thinking that the athlete should have control over his/her own future and should face no more barriers to freedom of movement than the coach who gets rich off his back ... how idiotic!
I agree with the general premise of no sitting out a year but there's have to be a lot more investigations regarding tampering for it to happen. I sympathize with transfers but I could see this good idea turning into another way for major programs to rob mid majors of their diamonds in rough
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I agree with the general premise of no sitting out a year but there's have to be a lot more investigations regarding tampering for it to happen. I sympathize with transfers but I could see this good idea turning into another way for major programs to rob mid majors of their diamonds in rough
Reasonable points.
There could be some "unintended consequences" of giving athletes the same freedom of movement as coaches -- and as non-athletes who receive scholarship money.
And you're right that there would have to be more oversight somehow, which does scare me given how incompetent the powers-that-be are of conducting oversight now.
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Quid pro Quo. You take a scholarship and the schools money, you want to transfer you sit out a year of playing.
Yes, you can transfer anytime and transfer to any school. No restrictions. You want to play ball at the D-1 level, you sit out a season.
All very reasonable. You don't want that deal, don't take a scholarship or play at a level that doesn't have these restrictions.
This is college after all, or at least should be. If your primary reason for attending college is to play ball, then sitting out a season might do you some good.
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Quid pro Quo. You take a scholarship and the schools money, you want to transfer you sit out a year of playing.
Yes, you can transfer anytime and transfer to any school. No restrictions. You want to play ball at the D-1 level, you sit out a season.
All very reasonable. You don't want that deal, don't take a scholarship or play at a level that doesn't have these restrictions.
This is college after all, or at least should be. If your primary reason for attending college is to play ball, then sitting out a season might do you some good and might further you towards actually getting a degree in the end.
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I agree with 82 about transfers, to an extent. If something out of the player's control changes like a coach leaving, I think they should be able to transfer without sitting out.
I also wonder if this scenario would be functional: to avoid the sit-out year, the school receiving the player would have to void a scholarship for that year. So, school has to give something in exchange for immediate playing time. They would have to determine worth for that player. Otherwise, business as usual for a sit-out transfer season
Thoughts?
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Quid pro Quo. You take a scholarship and the schools money, you want to transfer you sit out a year of playing.
Yes, you can transfer anytime and transfer to any school. No restrictions. You want to play ball at the D-1 level, you sit out a season.
All very reasonable. You don't want that deal, don't take a scholarship or play at a level that doesn't have these restrictions.
This is college after all, or at least should be. If your primary reason for attending college is to play ball, then sitting out a season might do you some good.
I support allowing athletes more freedom to transfer without sitting out (as they can in a lot of other sports). But as a parent paying for kids to go to college (and also a parent of a college athlete) it's not lost on me that sitting out a year can buy an athlete another year of free school. That allows them to take a somewhat lighter load or, even better, to get a start on an advanced degree. I don't want my daughter to transfer (or, God forbid, be injured), but it certainly wouldn't break my heart if she could figure out a way to squeeze another year out of the deal.
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Quid pro Quo. You take a scholarship and the schools money, you want to transfer you sit out a year of playing.
Yes, you can transfer anytime and transfer to any school. No restrictions. You want to play ball at the D-1 level, you sit out a season.
All very reasonable. You don't want that deal, don't take a scholarship or play at a level that doesn't have these restrictions.
This is college after all, or at least should be. If your primary reason for attending college is to play ball, then sitting out a season might do you some good.
I understand what's in the "contract." I think the contract is a bad one, one tilted heavily in favor of those in power.
We have a difference of opinion.
You are fine with the institution and the coach having all the power and all the money, and with the athlete having none of the power or money. You are fine saying, "If you don't like it, tough, go pound sand."
I am not fine with those things, and I don't think that's how it "should be."
Years ago, it was OK for southern schools to not bring in black athletes. Years ago, there were no women playing scholarship sports. All kinds of "traditions" that were allowed because that's how it always was and that's how it always should be have been blown up, thank goodness.
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If a coach leaves, the AD should immediately release all incoming recruits from their NLI.
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Says the guy who can't spell or use grammar correctly.
Yes, thinking that the athlete should have control over his/her own future and should face no more barriers to freedom of movement than the coach who gets rich off his back ... how idiotic!
I'm not sure what the hardship of sitting out a year is. In essence the transfer gets an extra year of free education. And a buyout is not nothing. It is not much, but it is not nothing. Allowing transfers with no year out is nothing. I think the guaranteed four year scholarship with the one year transfer wait period is ideal.
I understand your point of view and it is certainly reasonable, but you are approaching this from the angle that the student is an athlete first, which is a point of view the NCAA should never embrace. I think the current proposed measures (paying players some stipend or for their likeness) will be counter-productive for basketball players as a whole, although the students at the upper-echelon schools benefit.
I think if you start paying players and granting immediate transfers, the lower D-I schools may just give up and a lot of scholarships that once existed at smaller schools will go away. For example, a guy like Ja Morant very likely could have ended up at a high-major this year, and schools like Murray State may start wondering what value having a scholarship basketball team brings and just go to D-II or something.
I have no idea what will happen, but the NCAA has the right to set its own rules, since no one is forcing anyone to attend college.
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If a coach leaves, the AD should immediately release all incoming recruits from their NLI.
Agree, though they should immediately offer to release all incoming recruits and let those who want to stay stay. I am pretty sure that is what you meant.
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Agree, though they should immediately offer to release all incoming recruits and let those who want to stay stay. I am pretty sure that is what you meant.
Well, yes.
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I'm not sure what the hardship of sitting out a year is. In essence the transfer gets an extra year of free education. And a buyout is not nothing. It is not much, but it is not nothing. Allowing transfers with no year out is nothing. I think the guaranteed four year scholarship with the one year transfer wait period is ideal.
I understand your point of view and it is certainly reasonable, but you are approaching this from the angle that the student is an athlete first, which is a point of view the NCAA should never embrace. I think the current proposed measures (paying players some stipend or for their likeness) will be counter-productive for basketball players as a whole, although the students at the upper-echelon schools benefit.
I think if you start paying players and granting immediate transfers, the lower D-I schools may just give up and a lot of scholarships that once existed at smaller schools will go away. For example, a guy like Ja Morant very likely could have ended up at a high-major this year, and schools like Murray State may start wondering what value having a scholarship basketball team brings and just go to D-II or something.
I have no idea what will happen, but the NCAA has the right to set its own rules, since no one is forcing anyone to attend college.
Thanks for the respectful, reasonable post. A few points ...
Sitting out a year is a "hardship" to anybody who views it as a hardship. If you would rather not sit out a year without being able to play basketball games and the powers-that-be force you to it out, it is a hardship. If you don't mind sitting out a year, you feel it helps you get your academics in order, you feel it helps you mature, etc., then it isn't a hardship.
It's kind of like freshman eligibility. When they weren't allowed to play, what was the hardship?After all, there were many benefits to sitting out that year. But for many, it was a hardship.
As for students first vs. athletes first ... I don't know if top drama students or music students or engineering students get scholarship money from Marquette, but I do know for a fact that the top editors for various student media do.
The editor of the Tribune gets a full ride, and deservedly so, because it's a ton of work. If she decides after the year to transfer to College X, where she will get a free ride to be the editor of the X Daily, should she have to sit out a year before she can be an editor again? Is she a student first or an editor first?
See, I actually want the athletes to be treated like students first. I want them to have the same freedom of movement as that editor. That editor also could earn money writing a book, could become an internet sensation and make money off her likeness, etc. So could the student trombone player, the student actor and the student engineer. Treat the athlete similarly.
I am happy that people like Jay Bilas agree with me. It doesn't make me "right" and everybody else "wrong," it just gives me comfort to know that my feelings on this subject are similar to many of those who have been through it and who think about it on a grand scale.
I appreciate the conversation, CTW.
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I say yes...because it goes along with what i said above...players are SUPPOSED to be committing to that school, not a particular coach, and the school would be paying you(not the Coach, well at least at most schools :P). Know what you're getting into before you commit to that school.
Kids commit to programs. Part of the program is the relationship with the coaching staff . This is why many times it makes sense to hire a current assistant . The players in fact lobby for it. That is what happened with Xavier and Travis Steele. and it has worked out well for them. They were able to retain their players and put together a solid 5 man recruiting class.
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Thanks for the respectful, reasonable post. A few points ...
Sitting out a year is a "hardship" to anybody who views it as a hardship. If you would rather not sit out a year without being able to play basketball games and the powers-that-be force you to it out, it is a hardship. If you don't mind sitting out a year, you feel it helps you get your academics in order, you feel it helps you mature, etc., then it isn't a hardship.
It's kind of like freshman eligibility. When they weren't allowed to play, what was the hardship?After all, there were many benefits to sitting out that year. But for many, it was a hardship.
As for students first vs. athletes first ... I don't know if top drama students or music students or engineering students get scholarship money from Marquette, but I do know for a fact that the top editors for various student media do.
The editor of the Tribune gets a full ride, and deservedly so, because it's a ton of work. If she decides after the year to transfer to College X, where she will get a free ride to be the editor of the X Daily, should she have to sit out a year before she can be an editor again? Is she a student first or an editor first?
See, I actually want the athletes to be treated like students first. I want them to have the same freedom of movement as that editor. That editor also could earn money writing a book, could become an internet sensation and make money off her likeness, etc. So could the student trombone player, the student actor and the student engineer. Treat the athlete similarly.
I am happy that people like Jay Bilas agree with me. It doesn't make me "right" and everybody else "wrong," it just gives me comfort to know that my feelings on this subject are similar to many of those who have been through it and who think about it on a grand scale.
I appreciate the conversation, CTW.
Look, I respect your opinion and understand why you think players should be free agents. The other side, that I see more strongly is that a scholarship is an incredibly valuable asset for the institution and player. A scholarship alone is really, really valuable for the players and should be the primary concern of 98% of those taking a scholarship - what school and academics - not who is the coach. A system that makes the coach the number one item, is not what 98% of these kids should be most concerned about..
Some players have no business being in college and will go pro after one year - transfers don't matter for them. 98% should be putting college first and their sports careers second. There maybe between 1% and 2% where the coach is what it is about for the players - those that are not one and done but have serious hope and likelihood of getting to play high level pro ball. I feel for those types when things don't work out, but the system can't be built around the 2%.
To me, the fact is that a free agency system devalues the institution and what the purpose of the 98% that get scholarships should be concerned with - school.
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Look, I respect your opinion and understand why you think players should be free agents. The other side, that I see more strongly is that a scholarship is an incredibly valuable asset for the institution and player. A scholarship alone is really, really valuable for the players and should be the primary concern of 98% of those taking a scholarship - what school and academics - not who is the coach. A system that makes the coach the number one item, is not what 98% of these kids should be most concerned about..
Some players have no business being in college and will go pro after one year - transfers don't matter for them. 98% should be putting college first and their sports careers second. There maybe between 1% and 2% where the coach is what it is about for the players - those that are not one and done but have serious hope and likelihood of getting to play high level pro ball. I feel for those types when things don't work out, but the system can't be built around the 2%.
To me, the fact is that a free agency system devalues the institution and what the purpose of the 98% that get scholarships should be concerned with - school.
Fair enough. We will agree to disagree. Take it easy.
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Thanks for the respectful, reasonable post. A few points ...
Sitting out a year is a "hardship" to anybody who views it as a hardship. If you would rather not sit out a year without being able to play basketball games and the powers-that-be force you to it out, it is a hardship. If you don't mind sitting out a year, you feel it helps you get your academics in order, you feel it helps you mature, etc., then it isn't a hardship.
It's kind of like freshman eligibility. When they weren't allowed to play, what was the hardship?After all, there were many benefits to sitting out that year. But for many, it was a hardship.
As for students first vs. athletes first ... I don't know if top drama students or music students or engineering students get scholarship money from Marquette, but I do know for a fact that the top editors for various student media do.
The editor of the Tribune gets a full ride, and deservedly so, because it's a ton of work. If she decides after the year to transfer to College X, where she will get a free ride to be the editor of the X Daily, should she have to sit out a year before she can be an editor again? Is she a student first or an editor first?
See, I actually want the athletes to be treated like students first. I want them to have the same freedom of movement as that editor. That editor also could earn money writing a book, could become an internet sensation and make money off her likeness, etc. So could the student trombone player, the student actor and the student engineer. Treat the athlete similarly.
I am happy that people like Jay Bilas agree with me. It doesn't make me "right" and everybody else "wrong," it just gives me comfort to know that my feelings on this subject are similar to many of those who have been through it and who think about it on a grand scale.
I appreciate the conversation, CTW.
Sitting out the year benefits the athlete. They are able to focus hard on strength and conditioning ,skills development and uilding chemistry with New teammates . The last point is crucial to team and individual success .
I generally don’t like the NCAA but in this particular case the rule is one of those things that keeps all the coaches honest. If the coaches had their way kids would
Be instantly eligible .
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Thanks for the respectful, reasonable post. A few points ...
Sitting out a year is a "hardship" to anybody who views it as a hardship. If you would rather not sit out a year without being able to play basketball games and the powers-that-be force you to it out, it is a hardship. If you don't mind sitting out a year, you feel it helps you get your academics in order, you feel it helps you mature, etc., then it isn't a hardship.
It's kind of like freshman eligibility. When they weren't allowed to play, what was the hardship?After all, there were many benefits to sitting out that year. But for many, it was a hardship.
As for students first vs. athletes first ... I don't know if top drama students or music students or engineering students get scholarship money from Marquette, but I do know for a fact that the top editors for various student media do.
The editor of the Tribune gets a full ride, and deservedly so, because it's a ton of work. If she decides after the year to transfer to College X, where she will get a free ride to be the editor of the X Daily, should she have to sit out a year before she can be an editor again? Is she a student first or an editor first?
See, I actually want the athletes to be treated like students first. I want them to have the same freedom of movement as that editor. That editor also could earn money writing a book, could become an internet sensation and make money off her likeness, etc. So could the student trombone player, the student actor and the student engineer. Treat the athlete similarly.
I am happy that people like Jay Bilas agree with me. It doesn't make me "right" and everybody else "wrong," it just gives me comfort to know that my feelings on this subject are similar to many of those who have been through it and who think about it on a grand scale.
I appreciate the conversation, CTW.
I gave up after "Thanks".
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Sitting out the year benefits the athlete. They are able to focus hard on strength and conditioning ,skills development and uilding chemistry with New teammates . The last point is crucial to team and individual success .
I generally don’t like the NCAA but in this particular case the rule is one of those things that keeps all the coaches honest. If the coaches had their way kids would
Be instantly eligible .
Again, as I said to GOO, many athletes don't want to "benefit" this way.
Are we advocating a return to freshmen being ineligible so they can all "benefit."
I appreciate your point. I just happen to think it's wrong. The drama student and the newspaper editor don't have to sit out a year. Neither does the basketball coach. Neither should the basketball player. In my opinion.
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Again, as I said to GOO, many athletes don't want to "benefit" this way.
Are we advocating a return to freshmen being ineligible so they can all "benefit."
I appreciate your point. I just happen to think it's wrong. The drama student and the newspaper editor don't have to sit out a year. Neither does the basketball coach. Neither should the basketball player. In my opinion.
Some athletes do, likely the majority what the benefit that way. The non-revenue sport athletes, even Northwestern football had a chance to unionize and didn't.
Do the drama student and newspaper editor compete in competitions, have a league, and a governing body such as the NCAA? Doesn't feel as though the comparison is appropriate.
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Some athletes do, likely the majority what the benefit that way. The non-revenue sport athletes, even Northwestern football had a chance to unionize and didn't.
Do the drama student and newspaper editor compete in competitions, have a league, and a governing body such as the NCAA? Doesn't feel as though the comparison is appropriate.
Debate students compete. Musicians definitely do. And what does having a governing body have to do with anything?
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So any actual news on who is hiring who?
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I gave up after "Thanks".
I gave up after “MU82”
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Some athletes do, likely the majority what the benefit that way. The non-revenue sport athletes, even Northwestern football had a chance to unionize and didn't.
Do the drama student and newspaper editor compete in competitions, have a league, and a governing body such as the NCAA? Doesn't feel as though the comparison is appropriate.
Ironically non-revenue athletes usually don’t have to sit out a year after transfer. Neither does anyone at the Division III level. Which basically throws the “year to acclimate” argument in the garbage.
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I gave up after “MU82”
It is amazing how much he’s in your head.
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Some athletes do, likely the majority what the benefit that way. The non-revenue sport athletes, even Northwestern football had a chance to unionize and didn't.
Northwestern football didn't have a chance to unionize. They sought to unionize, but their efforts were denied by the federal government. It wasn't, as you're trying to imply here, a case of them deciding they prefer the status quo.
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Northwestern football didn't have a chance to unionize. They sought to unionize, but their efforts were denied by the federal government. It wasn't, as you're trying to imply here, a case of them deciding they prefer the status quo.
Cheeks "accidentally" misrepresenting facts? Well, I never!
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Debate students compete. Musicians definitely do. And what does having a governing body have to do with anything?
A governing body exists because there need to be rules enacted to assure institutions are not cheating while keeping some semblance of a level playing field.
Musicians have competitions from one school to another? I did not realize this, but will assume it is true. My hunch is there isn't tampering going on with the debate and music students from one school to another. Nor are 80,000 people coming to a concert or to watch the debate team perform. I also do not recall nightly shows dedicated to the performance of the debate or music students at universities as we do with college sports teams. That is why I think the comparisons are not appropriate. They couldn't be any more different.
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Northwestern football didn't have a chance to unionize. They sought to unionize, but their efforts were denied by the federal government. It wasn't, as you're trying to imply here, a case of them deciding they prefer the status quo.
Maybe my syntax wasn't clear, but that what I attempted to convey is what you stated. They were going to vote, that was the initial intention to unionize. In the end, after they thought Fitzgerald was going to leave, there was a racial split, it was ugly. Whether their efforts would be denied eventually by the Federal govt (NLRB) was not my argument as the players had the intention to take the necessary steps to do what they had to do for the process to start. Which they did with their vote, even though they knew in the end they would lose.
https://www.si.com/college-football/2016/02/24/northwestern-union-case-book-indentured
We had very good friends who had a son play on that team.
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Cheeks "accidentally" misrepresenting facts? Well, I never!
Did Cheeks get a vacation? Seems to have abruptly stopped posting and other profiles are posting at a higher rate.
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Northwestern football didn't have a chance to unionize. They sought to unionize, but their efforts were denied by the federal government. It wasn't, as you're trying to imply here, a case of them deciding they prefer the status quo.
Correct. When I read the decision I felt there was a legit case for them but the NLRB rejected their petition:
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/18/sports/ncaafootball/nlrb-says-northwestern-football-players-cannot-unionize.html
Chief among the board’s reasons for declining to consider the case were the complexities of an N.C.A.A. in which one team might be unionized while others were not, and whether a union would negotiate terms that conflicted with the association’s rules. The N.L.R.B., which has jurisdiction only over the private sector, was also reluctant to wade into territory that could have raised implications for public universities. A vast majority of top-level college football programs are at public colleges, and Northwestern is the only private institution in the 14-member Big Ten Conference.
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Fairfield U has a new coach.
Sorry to awake anyone.............
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Vanderbilt hired Jerry Stackhouse
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@AdamZagoria: Sources say Virginia Tech and Seton Hall have both discussed numbers with Kevin Willard, with one saying it's '50/50' right now.
Reached by text, Willard has no comment.
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How much does Willard currently make?
I looked it up online and the range I find is $1.2M-$1.8M (maybe a result of incentives?)
Either way, that strikes me as low.
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If Willard goes to VPI, we could potentially see JTIII come off the sidelines and go to Seton Hall. JTIII spent the first part of his career coaching Princeton, so going back to New Jersey is not going to be a major change of lifestyle for him.
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If Willard goes to VPI, we could potentially see JTIII come off the sidelines and go to Seton Hall. JTIII spent the first part of his career coaching Princeton, so going back to New Jersey is not going to be a major change of lifestyle for him. Although JTIII presently is the "leader" in the Vanderbilt search.
https://www.zagsblog.com/2019/03/23/john-thompson-iii-is-the-leader-at-vanderbilt-sources/
As was mentioned above in this very topic, Jerry Stackhouse was hired at Vanderbilt.
And I really doubt JTIII ends up at Seton Hall. Too bad Dan Hurley took the UConn job last year because he would have been a natural at SHU considering its his alma mater.
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If Willard goes to VPI, we could potentially see JTIII come off the sidelines and go to Seton Hall. JTIII spent the first part of his career coaching Princeton, so going back to New Jersey is not going to be a major change of lifestyle for him. Although JTIII presently is the "leader" in the Vanderbilt search.
https://www.zagsblog.com/2019/03/23/john-thompson-iii-is-the-leader-at-vanderbilt-sources/
Jerry Stackhouse was officially announced 3 hours ago by Vandy. Something tells me JT3 isn't leading anything there.
https://mobile.twitter.com/vandymbb/status/1114200058663141376
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Jerry Stackhouse was officially announced 3 hours ago by Vandy. Something tells me JT3 isn't leading anything there.
https://mobile.twitter.com/vandymbb/status/1114200058663141376
I was on a conference call. Sorry for the incorrect info.
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I was on a conference call. Sorry for the incorrect info.
Thats not an excuse....come on man....you are a much better BS'er than this. Put a little effort into it.
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There's some reports on Twitter about Mullin potentially not coming back to St. John's and them getting Bobby Hurley.
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Thats not an excuse....come on man....you are a much better BS'er than this. Put a little effort into it.
I know ,it was a lame dog ate my homework excuse.
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There's some reports on Twitter about Mullin potentially not coming back to St. John's and them getting Bobby Hurley.
Wow. That would be some news if true.
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A governing body exists because there need to be rules enacted to assure institutions are not cheating while keeping some semblance of a level playing field.
Musicians have competitions from one school to another? I did not realize this, but will assume it is true. My hunch is there isn't tampering going on with the debate and music students from one school to another. Nor are 80,000 people coming to a concert or to watch the debate team perform. I also do not recall nightly shows dedicated to the performance of the debate or music students at universities as we do with college sports teams. That is why I think the comparisons are not appropriate. They couldn't be any more different.
The governing body would just have to change some rules, as it does often. Otherwise, you and I simply disagree about the "benefits" ... and that's cool. Everybody need not agree on everything.
This will be my last comment on this subject on this thread (should have its own thread) because I don't want to bog it down any more.
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Everybody need not agree on everything.
I disagree. No...wait...
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There's some reports on Twitter about Mullin potentially not coming back to St. John's and them getting Bobby Hurley.
Thing snot so cool in the desert?
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Thing snot so cool in the desert?
#ThingSnot
This will certainly be the name of an up and coming band within the next few years.
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There's some reports on Twitter about Mullin potentially not coming back to St. John's and them getting Bobby Hurley.
Didn't see anything official one way or the other, but apparently Cameron Mack has asked for his release. Juco transfer, was going to be their starting PG next year. I would say that's some smoke.
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Didn't see anything official one way or the other, but apparently Cameron Mack has asked for his release. Juco transfer, was going to be their starting PG next year. I would say that's some smoke.
https://twitter.com/JucoRecruiting/status/1114281781245751301
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For St. John's, it is very peculiar that they have not yet named a replacement for Matt Abdelmassih yet. Matt was their top (and by perception only) recruiter.
Regardless, nothing can be going on today. Bobby Hurley is at the Arizona Diamondbacks' opening day (threw out the first pitch) in Phoenix. If things do move, it likely wouldn't be until early next week.
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There's some reports on Twitter about Mullin potentially not coming back to St. John's and them getting Bobby Hurley.
They should do so immediately. Mullin as figurehead doesn't work and St. Jean is not a DI level coach.
The Hall looking for a coach could push the Jamaica outfit into action.
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For St. John's, it is very peculiar that they have not yet named a replacement for Matt Abdelmassih yet. Matt was their top (and by perception only) recruiter.
Not really that odd. Some coaches pick their next assistant and like them to remain off book so they can attend events without having to adhere to NCAA recruiting restrictions.
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Didn't see anything official one way or the other, but apparently Cameron Mack has asked for his release. Juco transfer, was going to be their starting PG next year. I would say that's some smoke.
Maybe he's following Abdelmassih to Nebraska?
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Look, I respect your opinion and understand why you think players should be free agents. The other side, that I see more strongly is that a scholarship is an incredibly valuable asset for the institution and player. A scholarship alone is really, really valuable for the players and should be the primary concern of 98% of those taking a scholarship - what school and academics - not who is the coach. A system that makes the coach the number one item, is not what 98% of these kids should be most concerned about..
Some players have no business being in college and will go pro after one year - transfers don't matter for them. 98% should be putting college first and their sports careers second. There maybe between 1% and 2% where the coach is what it is about for the players - those that are not one and done but have serious hope and likelihood of getting to play high level pro ball. I feel for those types when things don't work out, but the system can't be built around the 2%.
To me, the fact is that a free agency system devalues the institution and what the purpose of the 98% that get scholarships should be concerned with - school.
It may not be popular with many here, but I agree 100%.
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Dixon likely staying at TCU due to contract buyout terms.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26451253/tcu-dixon-likely-mix-ucla (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26451253/tcu-dixon-likely-mix-ucla)
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Wojo to UCLA
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Dixon likely staying at TCU due to contract buyout terms.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26451253/tcu-dixon-likely-mix-ucla (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26451253/tcu-dixon-likely-mix-ucla)
Man, I'm not sure anyone comes out looking good there. UCLA is cheap, TCU is stuck with a coach who wants to leave, and Dixon is stuck coaching a team that knows he tried to leave.
I think this is the first time I've seen a buyout actually keep a coach
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Man, I'm not sure anyone comes out looking good there. UCLA is cheap, TCU is stuck with a coach who wants to leave, and Dixon is stuck coaching a team that knows he tried to leave.
I think this is the first time I've seen a buyout actually keep a coach
Yeah, no chance that works. For anyone. This is just the start of the negotiation.
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Willard staying at Seton Hall.
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Willard staying at Seton Hall.
Willard will get a nice pay raise and years added on to contract.
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Willard will get a nice pay raise and years added on to contract.
But he's rejecting a Power 4 conference to stay in a mid-major.
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Per that ESPN article, Dixon’s buyout was $8 million. I really don’t blame UCLA for not wanting to pony up. That’s a huge chunk of change to pay for a guy who’ll be shown the door in three to five years.
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Per that ESPN article, Dixon’s buyout was $8 million. I really don’t blame UCLA for not wanting to pony up. That’s a huge chunk of change to pay for a guy who’ll be shown the door in three to five years.
Good lord. If you’re UCLA don’t you iron that small detail out before you let it leak Dixon’s your new coach?! Incompetence knows no boundaries
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But he's rejecting a Power 4 conference to stay in a mid-major.
And Hall MU games will continue to be fun. #ejections
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BuyoutsDoMatta
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Good lord. If you’re UCLA don’t you iron that small detail out before you let it leak Dixon’s your new coach?! Incompetence knows no boundaries
You are right. In almost every case it gets worked out. Apparently TCU is not budging, which is their right. On the other hand, do you really want to keep a coach who wants to go somewhere else?
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You are right. In almost every case it gets worked out. Apparently TCU is not budging, which is their right. On the other hand, do you really want to keep a coach who wants to go somewhere else?
Didn’t we do that with Al McGuire when he wanted to go to the Bucks and we said NO DICE?
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Didn’t we do that with Al McGuire when he wanted to go to the Bucks and we said NO DICE?
Sure did but you think the situations are the same? I do not.
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Didn’t we do that with Al McGuire when he wanted to go to the Bucks and we said NO DICE?
I get it that you should no force someone to stay that wants to leave for another school. But, isn’t it different when a coach wants to jump to the NBA?
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In both cases, TCU and MU enforced a contract with their coach who wanted to leave, but the schools didn’t yield.
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In both cases, TCU and MU enforced a contract with their coach who wanted to leave, but the schools didn’t yield.
Got it. The situations are the same.
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Got it. The situations are the same.
Though, different in that there was no buyout provision back then. In that respect, MU took a much harsher line. TCU was willing to let Dixon go for the $8 million.
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Though, different in that there was no buyout provision back then. In that respect, MU took a much harsher line. TCU was willing to let Dixon go for the $8 million.
TCU wasn’t ‘willing’ to let Dixon go for $8 million, they contractually obligated themselves to do so. There is no longer any choice on their end if the $8 million is produced.
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Got it. The situations are the same.
No two situations are exactly alike, which I am sure you know. This is why we have guiding principles, rules, laws, etc, to bucketize similar things until we come to ones that are true outliers and address with new rules, laws, etc.
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Didn’t we do that with Al McGuire when he wanted to go to the Bucks and we said NO DICE?
So you can cite two examples in 50 years?
Not exactly a powerful argument.
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@GoodmanHoops: St. John’s AD Mike Cragg in a statement: “Let me be clear and I said from the start, Coach Mullin is our head coach and we are not looking for another head coach.”
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So you can cite two examples in 50 years?
Not exactly a powerful argument.
I’m sure we could all cite more if we put our minds to it. More importantly, as a deterrent how many times does this not even come to play because schools know the amount and don’t bother to go after another coach in the first place.
There is a reason Buzz lowered his buyout in the last two years.
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@GoodmanHoops: St. John’s AD Mike Cragg in a statement: “Let me be clear and I said from the start, Coach Mullin is our head coach and we are not looking for another head coach.”
“Our initial advances towards coaches we would like as replacements were not well received. Given that this has leaked out to knowledgeable people within the industry, let me publicly mention how committed we are to Mullin and get ahead of everything with CYA statements”
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TCU wasn’t ‘willing’ to let Dixon go for $8 million, they contractually obligated themselves to do so. There is no longer any choice on their end if the $8 million is produced.
Yah, that’s the contract TCU willingly agreed to.......
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Good for Willard and Seton Hall. Don’t like the guy, but it’s nice to see him move the program forward and keep some stability.
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Man, I'm not sure anyone comes out looking good there. UCLA is cheap, TCU is stuck with a coach who wants to leave, and Dixon is stuck coaching a team that knows he tried to leave.
I think this is the first time I've seen a buyout actually keep a coach
Buyouts "keep" coaches all the time because other schools don't even bother. That's part of the point of the buyout. Of course they can also hem a program in that wants to dump a coach, too.
Dabo is going nowhere for the time being, with a $40M+ buyout. Les Miles recently walked away from $5M so he could pursue another job.
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https://twitter.com/gene_wang/status/1114601225754955777?s=21
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Maybe not.
https://twitter.com/WBALPete/status/1114618532631928837?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1114618532631928837&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2F247sports.com%2Fcollege%2Fvirginia-tech%2FBoard%2F59428%2FContents%2FCoaching-Hot-Board-Virginia-Tech-Hokies-Basketball-130836308%2F%3FPage%3D15
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Now mid major coaches don't want it.....
Buzz must be leaving the cupboard "very bare"......
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flight tracker shows a flight this morning from Philly (kinda sorta near Baltimore) to Charlotte (kinda sorta near Blacksburg almost).
What more evidence do you need? Odom is a #donedeal.
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Now mid major coaches don't want it.....
Buzz must be leaving the cupboard "very bare"......
UMBC is a mid-major? Even sadder
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https://twitter.com/gene_wang/status/1114632923540480000?s=21
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https://twitter.com/gene_wang/status/1114632923540480000?s=21
https://twitter.com/RTD_MikeBarber/status/1114635790368301056 :D
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flight tracker shows a flight this morning from Philly (kinda sorta near Baltimore) to Charlotte (kinda sorta near Blacksburg almost).
What more evidence do you need? Odom is a #donedeal.
Jay Wright is going to VT?! Well, cancel the BE!
Also, Odom would’ve been smart to take this. I don’t know what they have returning but I can’t imagine the iron will ever be hotter for him.
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Jay Wright is going to VT?! Well, cancel the BE!
Also, Odom would’ve been smart to take this. I don’t know what they have returning but I can’t imagine the iron will ever be hotter for him.
Wake Forest?
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Jay Wright is going to VT?! Well, cancel the BE!
Also, Odom would’ve been smart to take this. I don’t know what they have returning but I can’t imagine the iron will ever be hotter for him.
Agree. If you’re the coach of a low major then you should accept any high major opening imo.
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Agree. If you’re the coach of a low major then you should accept any high major opening imo.
I don't buy this, necessarily. The situation has to be right. Moving up to a place where it's very tough to win might be a way to get yourself fired in a few years. Because they've had some success recently, the expectations and pressure will probably be higher than they've ever been at VT.
It's really tough to be the guy who follows The Guy, and Buzz is about as close to The Guy as VT hoops has ever had.
(Full disclosure: That being said, I also think Odom should take the job. Coaching in the ACC is a huge opportunity, and you might not get the chance again.)
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I don't buy this, necessarily. The situation has to be right. Moving up to a place where it's very tough to win might be a way to get yourself fired in a few years. Because they've had some success recently, the expectations and pressure will probably be higher than they've ever been at VT.
It's really tough to be the guy who follows The Guy, and Buzz is about as close to The Guy as VT hoops has ever had.
(Full disclosure: That being said, I also think Odom should take the job. Coaching in the ACC is a huge opportunity, and you might not get the chance again.)
Sustaining excellence at mid Major is also tough. The successful ones tend to be senior oriented teams .
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Or maybe, like Few or McKillop, you just love where you are and can make a great living there.
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VT getting reminded of what type of basketball program they actually have. Buzz covered those warts for a bit
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VT getting reminded of what type of basketball program they actually have. Buzz covered those warts for a bit
The tears taste so sweet.
However, according to VT Scoop, Wojo, Willard and Odom were never actually offered. Babcock doesn't have leaks.
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@GoodmanHoops: Arkansas is in negotiations with Nevada coach Eric Musselman and, barring a last-minute collapse, he will be the next coach for the Razorbacks, source told @Stadium
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@GoodmanHoops: Arkansas is in negotiations with Nevada coach Eric Musselman and, barring a last-minute collapse, he will be the next coach for the Razorbacks, source told @Stadium
Would be a very good hire for Arkansas IMO
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On a flight from keys to midway last evening
Was buzz in studio or air time?
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The Va Tech drama is over...Mike Young from Wofford will be their next Coach
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1114992670978576384
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Oh no! Wojo to Wofford?
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The Va Tech drama is over...Mike Young from Wofford will be their next Coach
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1114992670978576384
That seems underwhelming. Young is this year's Porter Moser. The guy who overachieved massively compared to his career trajectory. Smart of Young to capitalize on it, but he's had one top-75 team in 16 years. Maybe he'll succeed, but his track record thus far doesn't suggest it.
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That seems underwhelming. Young is this year's Porter Moser. The guy who overachieved massively compared to his career trajectory. Smart of Young to capitalize on it, but he's had one top-75 team in 16 years. Maybe he'll succeed, but his track record thus far doesn't suggest it.
And no experience, even as an assistant, at the high major level.
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That seems underwhelming. Young is this year's Porter Moser. The guy who overachieved massively compared to his career trajectory. Smart of Young to capitalize on it, but he's had one top-75 team in 16 years. Maybe he'll succeed, but his track record thus far doesn't suggest it.
I agree with this 100%...I can understand why their fans aren't happy..then again, you can only hire who wants the job. They obviously tried for bigger names, and for various reasons they didn't work out. Though I obviously have no clue who they contacted and didn't, but Mike Rhoades from VCU would have seemed like a logical fit there. Heck, even Greg Marshall is from Virginia. I don't know if they contacted him, and he has obviously turned down better jobs, but still.
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The Va Tech drama is over...Mike Young from Wofford will be their next Coach
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1114992670978576384
That’s a strange way to spell Wojo’s last name
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Unlike Loyola under Moser, Wofford has been a good, competitive program for years under Young.
Since 2010, they have made the NCAA tournament 5 times, and have been by far the best team in their conference.
Over the years, they lost NCAA tourney games by 4 to Wisconsin, by 8 to BYU, by 3 to Arkansas and this year by 6 to Kentucky (after crushing Seton Hall). In recent years, they have won road games against the likes of UNC, NC State and S Carolina.
The truth, of course, is that nobody knows today if Mike Young will be a good, bad or mediocre coach at VaTech.
Yep, if we had hired Chris Beard in 2014, Scoop would have gone ballistic.
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Obviously no one knows, but in the past 4 years, Young had a losing record twice. Meanwhile, Forbes at ETSU, Miller at UNCG, & Richey at Furman have 10 combined seasons in that span. Only 1 losing season (Miller 4 years ago) and 9/10 where each tallied at least 23 wins. And all are younger than Young.
And Chris Beard is a unicorn. Not a fair comparison in either direction.
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That’s a strange way to spell Wojo’s last name
And odd flights. From NC to IN to VA. Weird.
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I agree with this 100%...I can understand why their fans aren't happy..then again, you can only hire who wants the job. They obviously tried for bigger names, and for various reasons they didn't work out. Though I obviously have no clue who they contacted and didn't, but Mike Rhoades from VCU would have seemed like a logical fit there. Heck, even Greg Marshall is from Virginia. I don't know if they contacted him, and he has obviously turned down better jobs, but still.
With Marshall you are competing with money from the Koch Brothers (no politics, please), who also provide him and his family with unlimited use of one of their private jets. They ponied up to raise his salary to $3 million in 2015 and his salary agreement is to keep him paid in the top $10 annually.
Interesting that Ryan Odom turned them down. Hmmm, maybe his dad’s old school, Wake next year when Danny Manning isvfired.
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Obviously no one knows, but in the past 4 years, Young had a losing record twice. Meanwhile, Forbes at ETSU, Miller at UNCG, & Richey at Furman have 10 combined seasons in that span. Only 1 losing season (Miller 4 years ago) and 9/10 where each tallied at least 23 wins. And all are younger than Young.
And Chris Beard is a unicorn. Not a fair comparison in either direction.
Good point about those coaches, brew. I was just saying that it's not as if Young has been a sucky coach or something.
As for Beard, I'm not "comparing" Young or Wojo or anybody else to him. All I'm saying is that a quick look at his resume before he took the TTech job (actually, the UNLV job only to pull out and go to TTech instead) would have made many Scoopers wonder what he had done to earn the job at our our fine institution. Before he went to TTech/UNLV, he was a head coach at a D1 mid-major for one season, a D2 school for 2 years and a school from some Christian conference for 1 year.
And all I'm saying is that if Wojo leaves, and we hire somebody with the exact same history as a head coach, he would be dismissed as a crapty hire because he's not an "established" P6 coach or a hot brand name like Shaka was.
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Rick Barnes to UCLA??
https://twitter.com/EvanDaniels/status/1115036292469940225
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Y kant wee ever higher a coach like Chris Beard, hey?
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Y kant wee ever higher a coach like Chris Beard, hey?
Cause people like you would absolutely roast the MU admin if we tried hiring someone with his resume (pre ttech)
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Rick Barnes to UCLA??
https://twitter.com/EvanDaniels/status/1115036292469940225
He's 64. That would be odd.
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Y kant wee ever higher a coach like Chris Beard, hey?
Everyone would like a coach like Chris Beard. To get one, you have to roll the dice on a guy with (see MU 82's review of his resume' prior to TTech).
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Everyone would like a coach like Chris Beard. To get one, you have to roll the dice on a guy with (see MU 82's review of his resume' prior to TTech).
Exactly.
Shaka was about as sure a thing as any mid-major coach could possibly be. He led VCU to the Final Four and kept the program going well. Even if there was a gradual decline, it's not like any reasonable observer could have felt he should be taking VCU deep into the NCAA tourney every year. He was THE mid-major coach to get -- a "cool, young guy" who would recruit spectacularly and just win win win at the P6 level.
Four years into his P6 experience, is everybody still sure that Shaka is a sure thing?
There was no rolling the dice on Shaka. If our administration had rolled the dice on somebody with Beard's resume ... Scoop would not have been filled with happy campers.
Folks here can't have it both ways. We can't say we want the next Beard while also saying we MUST hire a proven P6 winner ... at least not if we're gonna be realistic.
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Mike Young new coach at VaTech
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How 'bout dis Beard, knot da next won. Dude has da chops winners are made of. Wood bee nice ta get sum of dat, hey?
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Mike Young new coach at VaTech
From Wofford. I am sure he was their first choice all along. ::)
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How 'bout dis Beard, knot da next won. Dude has da chops winners are made of. Wood bee nice ta get sum of dat, hey?
Rumor has it he isn't going anywhere until his daughters grow up. And even if he does leave, MU will not win that bidding war.
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Derin lyes part of da problem, aina?
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Elaborate, please. If UCLA hasn't hired anyone by Tuesday, they will probably offer Beard $5 million per. Do you think MU can match that?
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As for Beard, I'm not "comparing" Young or Wojo or anybody else to him.
Beard has been amazing, and I'd say probably unprecedented, at least in modern history. People that say "why can't we find a Chris Beard", well it's because no other Chris Beards have existed in recent memory. People that say "maybe this guy is the next Chris Beard", there's no precedent for that either because no one has done what Beard did.
D2 to the far and away best season in UTA history (look at their results before and since, it's insane) to Texas Tech, maybe the worst (at best second worst) job in the B12 and he has them as a national title contender in year 3.
He can't be compared because his results thus far are incomparable. It's like complaining that a player doesn't dunk like Zion without acknowledging that no one has ever had the size/mobility combination Zion has. No one. Ever. That's Chris Beard, except as a coach.
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Elaborate, please. If UCLA hasn't hired anyone by Tuesday, they will probably offer Beard $5 million per. Do you think MU can match that?
Yes, and that's the facts. If they had to find the $$ to pay an elite Coach, they could find out without too much trouble.
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Exactly.
Shaka was about as sure a thing as any mid-major coach could possibly be. He led VCU to the Final Four and kept the program going well. Even if there was a gradual decline, it's not like any reasonable observer could have felt he should be taking VCU deep into the NCAA tourney every year. He was THE mid-major coach to get -- a "cool, young guy" who would recruit spectacularly and just win win win at the P6 level.
Four years into his P6 experience, is everybody still sure that Shaka is a sure thing?
There was no rolling the dice on Shaka. If our administration had rolled the dice on somebody with Beard's resume ... Scoop would not have been filled with happy campers.
Folks here can't have it both ways. We can't say we want the next Beard while also saying we MUST hire a proven P6 winner ... at least not if we're gonna be realistic.
First of all, what the hell is the P6?? Is that a made up term?? Secondly, pretty easy solution...you hire a proven winning Coach, your odds are best that way. Stay away from the mid/low major types.
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Elaborate, please. If UCLA hasn't hired anyone by Tuesday, they will probably offer Beard $5 million per. Do you think MU can match that?
Sure, they can. Just not convinced they realize that men's basketball is the university's meal ticket going forward
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First of all, what the hell is the P6?? Is that a made up term??
It's what CBS used on Selection Sunday and other hoop media guys say that know basketball that includes the Big East Conference.
Or it's what Mike Areso continues the American Athletic Conference’s bold push to become a power conference for football.
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https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1115064117461749760
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5 years, $12 million for Young to go to VTech. From Wofford. Beard will require at least 2x that much and maybe more.
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https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1115064117461749760
Interesting as to what the Buy Out number might be. Less than $8 ?
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Rumor has It that Young currently makes $170k a year at Wofford. That’s quite a raise...
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Interesting as to what the Buy Out number might be. Less than $8 ?
$5 million
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$5 million
Thanks.
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Yes, and that's the facts. If they had to find the $$ to pay an elite Coach, they could find out without too much trouble.
Except they wouldn’t pay his TCU buyout.
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Except they wouldn’t pay his TCU buyout.
Huh?? We were talking about whether or not MU could pay Beard $5/mill per year.
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Huh?? We were talking about whether or not MU could pay Beard $5/mill per year.
My apologies for misunderstanding.
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Rumor has It that Young currently makes $170k a year at Wofford. That’s quite a raise...
He could coach our women's team.
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How 'bout dis Beard, knot da next won. Dude has da chops winners are made of. Wood bee nice ta get sum of dat, hey?
I agree. It would be great if we could go get Beard right now because I'm sure he's dying to leave Texas Tech.
But just in case he wants to stay in what he called his dream job, with his family close by, that Izzo guy has been pretty good, too. And Cal. And Few. And Brad Stevens. It wood bee nice ta sum of any of dat, hey hey hey?
I mean there are Scoopers who think Bennett is a possibility. Why not?
The fact that a half-dozen of the most accomplished coaches out there won't drop everything they're doing to coach Marquette must mean we suck, oona'hey?
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I agree. It would be great if we could go get Beard right now because I'm sure he's dying to leave Texas Tech.
But just in case he wants to stay in what he called his dream job, with his family close by, that Izzo guy has been pretty good, too. And Cal. And Few. And Brad Stevens. It wood bee nice ta sum of any of dat, hey hey hey?
I mean there are Scoopers who think Bennett is a possibility. Why not?
The fact that a half-dozen of the most accomplished coaches out there won't drop everything they're doing to coach Marquette must mean we suck, oona'hey?
You make fun of every single time someone mentions a name that you think would be above Coaching at Marquette. Now, granted some names are unrealistic, but you seem to have this idea the only Coaches that MU could get would be lower level assistants, or mid major head coaches. That would not be accurate. You must have a REALLY REALLY low view of your alma mater's basketball program with as often as you "mock" possible future Head coaching possibilities. It's tiresome to be honest.
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@GoodmanHoops: Arkansas is in negotiations with Nevada coach Eric Musselman and, barring a last-minute collapse, he will be the next coach for the Razorbacks, source told @Stadium
Done deal.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/arkansas-hires-eric-musselman-away-from-nevada-as-new-razorbacks-mens-basketball-coach/
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You make fun of every single time someone mentions a name that you think would be above Coaching at Marquette. Now, granted some names are unrealistic, but you seem to have this idea the only Coaches that MU could get would be lower level assistants, or mid major head coaches. That would not be accurate. You must have a REALLY REALLY low view of your alma mater's basketball program with as often as you "mock" possible future Head coaching possibilities. It's tiresome to be honest.
Not a low view, just a realistic one.
Marquette is a top 20 - top 25 program in the country, which is not bad, that's top 5%. With that status, we can pick off almost any mid-major or low-major coach and any assistant coach that we want. We could also pick off most of the lower rung high-major coaches. If there is a young up and comer at like a Washington State, Rutgers, TCU, Ole Miss, or Boston College type job, we could probably land one of those guys. The mid-level high majors, there are probably some we could pick off if we gave enough money....but the reality is the coaches who do well at those levels typically stay put until one of the top jobs comes open. We cannot pick off coaches from the top high majors, unless we ran into a Buzz situation where the coach is running from a job rather than to one.
All of this is irrelevant at this point any way. Wojo ain't going anywhere this offseason. Barring disaster, he ain't going anywhere next season either.
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You make fun of every single time someone mentions a name that you think would be above Coaching at Marquette. Now, granted some names are unrealistic, but you seem to have this idea the only Coaches that MU could get would be lower level assistants, or mid major head coaches. That would not be accurate. You must have a REALLY REALLY low view of your alma mater's basketball program with as often as you "mock" possible future Head coaching possibilities. It's tiresome to be honest.
You're getting me confused with chicos. Please don't ever let that happen again.
He is the one who responds to every post with "I guess you'll have to be satisfied with another assistant coach, because that's all we can get." I actually have responded to that by correcting him.
We obviously can attract experienced coaches who have had some success, as both Cuonzo Martin and Ben Howland were begging us for the job 5 years ago.
I mock the idea that, after Beard has done what he has done at the place where he really wants to do it and to continue doing it, we can just sweep in there and steal him away.
I mock the idea that we're somehow going to lure Tony Bennett away from Virginia.
And I mock the idea that we should have hired Beard because folks here would have been sooooo comfortable hiring somebody with his resume at the time TTech hired him.
Criticize me if you want to, but at least be accurate with your criticism.
If and when Wojo is gone, we would have our choice of many top assistants around the country (as Wojo was, as Izzo was, as Roy Williams was, as Matt Painter was, etc). We also would have a very realistic chance at hiring the next Chris Beard or Shaka Smart if our people are good enough at identifying that person and sealing the deal. And yes, I do believe we would have a shot at some P6 head coaches and/or former head coaches, but probably not any who are having great success with their current P6 programs.
That's what I've said before, that's what I'm saying now. So please don't make stuff up about me.
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Not a low view, just a realistic one.
Marquette is a top 20 - top 25 program in the country, which is not bad, that's top 5%. With that status, we can pick off almost any mid-major or low-major coach and any assistant coach that we want. We could also pick off most of the lower rung high-major coaches. If there is a young up and comer at like a Washington State, Rutgers, TCU, Ole Miss, or Boston College type job, we could probably land one of those guys. The mid-level high majors, there are probably some we could pick off if we gave enough money....but the reality is the coaches who do well at those levels typically stay put until one of the top jobs comes open. We cannot pick off coaches from the top high majors, unless we ran into a Buzz situation where the coach is running from a job rather than to one.
All of this is irrelevant at this point any way. Wojo ain't going anywhere this offseason. Barring disaster, he ain't going anywhere next season either.
I agree with your first paragraph.
As for the second, I also agree and would like to add that it must be nice to work at an extremely high paying job where there’s next to no pressure to do anything other than avoid total disaster. Good work if you can get it!
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I agree with your first paragraph.
As for the second, I also agree and would like to add that it must be nice to work at an extremely high paying job where there’s next to no pressure to do anything other than avoid total disaster. Good work if you can get it!
???
Who said there is no pressure? I have found that people still feel a tremendous pressure to succeed in their careers even if they aren't on the hot seat.
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You're getting me confused with chicos. Please don't ever let that happen again.
He is the one who responds to every post with "I guess you'll have to be satisfied with another assistant coach, because that's all we can get." I actually have responded to that by correcting him.
We obviously can attract experienced coaches who have had some success, as both Cuonzo Martin and Ben Howland were begging us for the job 5 years ago.
I mock the idea that, after Beard has done what he has done at the place where he really wants to do it and to continue doing it, we can just sweep in there and steal him away.
I mock the idea that we're somehow going to lure Tony Bennett away from Virginia.
And I mock the idea that we should have hired Beard because folks here would have been sooooo comfortable hiring somebody with his resume at the time TTech hired him.
Criticize me if you want to, but at least be accurate with your criticism.
If and when Wojo is gone, we would have our choice of many top assistants around the country (as Wojo was, as Izzo was, as Roy Williams was, as Matt Painter was, etc). We also would have a very realistic chance at hiring the next Chris Beard or Shaka Smart if our people are good enough at identifying that person and sealing the deal. And yes, I do believe we would have a shot at some P6 head coaches and/or former head coaches, but probably not any who are having great success with their current P6 programs.
That's what I've said before, that's what I'm saying now. So please don't make stuff up about me.
You mock Tony Bennett(as have others) without obviously knowing truly how close he was to being MU's Coach when TC left..that being said..MU's program was in a significantly better place then.
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You mock Tony Bennett(as have others) without obviously knowing truly how close he was to being MU's Coach when TC left..that being said..MU's program was in a significantly better place then.
Again, putting words in my mouth.
I mock the idea of Tony Bennett coming to Marquette if we fire Wojo now, as at least one other Scooper suggested was realistic.
And I accept your apology.
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You mock Tony Bennett(as have others) without obviously knowing truly how close he was to being MU's Coach when TC left..that being said..MU's program was in a significantly better place then.
1. MU's program is better now than it was when TC left
2. Tony Bennett was coming from Washington State then, we absolutely could have gotten him then and could absolutely get Washington State's coach now
3. The mocking Tony Bennett is based off getting him now, when he is at one of the top jobs in the country. That simply would not happen.
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I agree. It would be great if we could go get Beard right now because I'm sure he's dying to leave Texas Tech.
But just in case he wants to stay in what he called his dream job, with his family close by, that Izzo guy has been pretty good, too. And Cal. And Few. And Brad Stevens. It wood bee nice ta sum of any of dat, hey hey hey?
I mean there are Scoopers who think Bennett is a possibility. Why not?
The fact that a half-dozen of the most accomplished coaches out there won't drop everything they're doing to coach Marquette must mean we suck, oona'hey?
Nah, just means we've dropped down to mid-major status in the eyes of those who matter, hey?
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Not a low view, just a realistic one.
Marquette is a top 20 - top 25 program in the country, which is not bad, that's top 5%. With that status, we can pick off almost any mid-major or low-major coach and any assistant coach that we want. We could also pick off most of the lower rung high-major coaches. If there is a young up and comer at like a Washington State, Rutgers, TCU, Ole Miss, or Boston College type job, we could probably land one of those guys. The mid-level high majors, there are probably some we could pick off if we gave enough money....but the reality is the coaches who do well at those levels typically stay put until one of the top jobs comes open. We cannot pick off coaches from the top high majors, unless we ran into a Buzz situation where the coach is running from a job rather than to one.
All of this is irrelevant at this point any way. Wojo ain't going anywhere this offseason. Barring disaster, he ain't going anywhere next season either.
And I don't think people realize, with the money being thrown around now, how easy it is to stay where one is. Coaches don't rank jobs. They don't say "well I'm in the 30th best job in the country now, so if the 18th best job opens up, I'm leaving." Also different coaches have different motivations. Wright has apparently decided to make Nova his destination. Chris Mack didn't do the same with Xavier.
It is pretty rare, maybe only once a year, where a coach in good standing at a major program leaves to take another major job.
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Nah, just means we've dropped down to mid-major status in the eyes of those who matter, hey?
Nah, just means those who think they know everything know nothing. Now plz list all da hi majorr coaches dat day Quette has hyred threw da yeerz.
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Nah, just means we've dropped down to mid-major status in the eyes of those who matter, hey?
A couple of questions, Doc:
When did this "drop down" happen? When is the last time Marquette went out and hired away a highly regarded head coach from a top conference?
Answer:
Never! (Or at least never in the Al-and-beyond era.)
Al was hired from Belmont Abbey, where he was 13-39 his last two seasons. (I can practically hear the wailing that would have emanated from Scoop1964 after that hire!)
Hank was promoted from assistant.
Rick was promoted from assistant.
Dukiet was hired from St. Peters.
KO was an Arizona assistant.
Deane was hired from Siena.
Creane was a Michigan State assistant.
Buzz was promoted from assistant.
Wojo was a Duke assistant.
A bunch of assistants and mid-major coaches, starting with some clown who won 13 games in his last 2 seasons at the basketball juggernaut that was Belmont Abbey.
In other words, Doc, by your definition, Marquette has ALWAYS been a mid-major in the eyes of those who matter, hey?
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A couple of questions, Doc:
When did this "drop down" happen? When is the last time Marquette went out and hired away a highly regarded head coach from a top conference?
Answer:
Never! (Or at least never in the Al-and-beyond era.)
Al was hired from Belmont Abbey, where he was 13-39 his last two seasons. (I can practically hear the wailing that would have emanated from Scoop1964 after that hire!)
Hank was promoted from assistant.
Rick was promoted from assistant.
Dukiet was hired from St. Peters.
KO was an Arizona assistant.
Deane was hired from Siena.
Creane was a Michigan State assistant.
Buzz was promoted from assistant.
Wojo was a Duke assistant.
A bunch of assistants and mid-major coaches, starting with some clown who won 13 games in his last 2 seasons at the basketball juggernaut that was Belmont Abbey.
In other words, Doc, by your definition, Marquette has ALWAYS been a mid-major in the eyes of those who matter, hey?
I can't believe we've hired 3 assistants from a mid-major school like Marquette. Couldn't even get their head coach!
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These questions should be asked of those who make the business decisions at Marquette. For a school that has 1 revenue generating sport, it is mind boggling to not maximize the potential to be a player on a major stage. In fact, going back to 1977 and seeing and feeling the revenue, free publicity, increased applications, etc. and then dropping the ball and peeing down their leg, its beyond believable. If Gonzaga and Villanova can do it, what's MU's issue?
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These questions should be asked of those who make the business decisions at Marquette. For a school that has 1 revenue generating sport, it is mind boggling to not maximize the potential to be a player on a major stage. In fact, going back to 1977 and seeing and feeling the revenue, free publicity, increased applications, etc. and then dropping the ball and peeing down their leg, its beyond believable. If Gonzaga and Villanova can do it, what's MU's issue?
Time. Few has been at Gonzaga for 30 years, 20 as head coach. Wright has been at Villanova for 18 years. Maybe if Crean stays we're at that same level. Maybe even if Buzz stays. If Wojo stays, maybe we get there in 10 years. Or maybe we reset and wait and see for 15 years with the next guy.
Hiring the right coach and retaining that coach for a couple decades is the difference.
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These questions should be asked of those who make the business decisions at Marquette. For a school that has 1 revenue generating sport, it is mind boggling to not maximize the potential to be a player on a major stage. In fact, going back to 1977 and seeing and feeling the revenue, free publicity, increased applications, etc. and then dropping the ball and peeing down their leg, its beyond believable. If Gonzaga and Villanova can do it, what's MU's issue?
The last time Gonzaga hired a head coach, it was a lifetime assistant from their own staff.
The last time Villanova hired a head coach, it was a former assistant who'd spent the previous seven years at low-major Hofstra.
If this is your case for Marquette landing someone like Tony Bennett, it's a bad one.
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These questions should be asked of those who make the business decisions at Marquette. For a school that has 1 revenue generating sport, it is mind boggling to not maximize the potential to be a player on a major stage. In fact, going back to 1977 and seeing and feeling the revenue, free publicity, increased applications, etc. and then dropping the ball and peeing down their leg, its beyond believable. If Gonzaga and Villanova can do it, what's MU's issue?
Stability. Those other schools have coaches that stick around.
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These questions should be asked of those who make the business decisions at Marquette. For a school that has 1 revenue generating sport, it is mind boggling to not maximize the potential to be a player on a major stage. In fact, going back to 1977 and seeing and feeling the revenue, free publicity, increased applications, etc. and then dropping the ball and peeing down their leg, its beyond believable. If Gonzaga and Villanova can do it, what's MU's issue?
Gonzaga "did it" by promoting an assistant, Dan Monson, and then, after he bolted for Minnesota, promoting his assistant, Mark Few. It took Monson/Few a combined 20 seasons to reach the Final Four.
Nova "did it" by hiring a mid-major guy from Hofstra (where he had a losing record after 4 seasons). It took Jay Wright 4 years at Nova to make the NCAA tourney, 4 more years to reach the Final Four, and 7 years after that -- his 15th season at the school and 22nd as a head coach -- to win the title.
So if we are to follow the Gonzaga/Villanova model, all we need to "do it" is hire either an assistant or a mid-major coach and give him time to build a great program.
What you're really saying is that you want the Gonzaga/Villanova success without having to live through the time it takes to get to that success.
Hey man, I get it. We all want a quick fix. We all want to hire the best and have him lead us to the promised land, and to do it in just a season or two.
But that is the extreme, extreme, extreme rarity. Even when a school gets fortunate enough to hire a Few or a Wright, that school has to stay patient while the program grows and blossoms.
In staying patient, a program might find out it hired the wrong guy. That happens all the time, not just at Marquette. I watched a lot of Illinois basketball; they got lucky with Self, fairly lucky with Weber, but a lot less lucky since; they saw themselves on the brink of "elite," but never quite got there. Texas Tech? Chris Beard fell into their lap; had he not been a 10-year Texas Tech assistant with family in the area, he'd be winning big at UNLV now.
We at Marquette got very, very, very, very (can I write a few more "verys"?) lucky with Al. He was a guy who had gone 13-39 his last 2 years at Belmont Freakin' Abbey. He could have sucked worse than Dukiet. But he ended up being the right mid-major (hell, not even mid-major) man for the right school at the right time.
Do I know if Wojo is the guy who will "do it" at Marquette the way it turned out that Few and Wright have done it at their schools? No I do not. But he has built some momentum, we did have a nice season, we have an even better team coming back next year. I am willing to be patient and see what it brings.
Others are not willing to be patient. They look at Gonzaga and Villanova and say, "Why not us, too?" But they don't want to hear about what it took for Gonzaga and especially Villanova to get to now. I guarantee that many Scoopers would have grumbled about hiring a guy from Hofstra and then, 3 years later, would have wanted that guy fired due to his 52-46 record (21-27 in the BEast), zero NCAA tournament appearances and 11th-place finish in his third year.
I got a real kick out of all the folks who were waxing poetic recently about Kevin Willard -- a hire from Iona who would have killed to have a first 5 seasons as good as Wojo's were.
Doc, you already have made up your mind that Wojo never should have been hired and, once hired, should have been fired long ago. That's your right as a fan, of course. I'm guessing you also felt Buzz should never have been promoted, which was also your right.
Just know that those of us who are a little more patient also very much want our Warriors to win again. I agree we can be the next Villanova if we get the right man in charge and keep him in charge for a long stretch. In my mind, we don't know yet if Wojo is the right man. In your mind, you are already positive that he is not.
I have to say that I hope I'm right on this one.
NOTE: Edited to reflect the correction that Fluffy offered about Monson reaching Elite 8 in his second season.
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Gonzaga "did it" by promoting an assistant, Dan Monson, and then, after he bolted for Minnesota, promoting his assistant, Mark Few. It took Monson/Few a combined 18 seasons to reach the Elite Eight and a combined 20 seasons to reach the Final Four.
Monson reached the Elite 8 in year two as a 10 seed. Lost a late lead to eventual champion UConn.
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Monson reached the Elite 8 in year two as a 10 seed. Lost a late lead to eventual champion UConn.
Thank you for the correction. The sentiment in my previous comment is the same, though.
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I agree with your first paragraph.
As for the second, I also agree and would like to add that it must be nice to work at an extremely high paying job where there’s next to no pressure to do anything other than avoid total disaster. Good work if you can get it!
Just dumb. No pressure, give me a break.
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Just dumb. No pressure, give me a break.
Zero heat from the media. The admin loves him, by all accounts. Not much pressure to exceed the fair to middling results we’ve seen thus far, though I’m sure he’s a competitive guy and wants to do better.
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Time. Few has been at Gonzaga for 30 years, 20 as head coach. Wright has been at Villanova for 18 years. Maybe if Crean stays we're at that same level. Maybe even if Buzz stays. If Wojo stays, maybe we get there in 10 years. Or maybe we reset and wait and see for 15 years with the next guy.
Hiring the right coach and retaining that coach for a couple decades is the difference.
Yes. This is exactly right. But people want to fire wojo with the arrow pointing up and the possibility of immediate future success breeding more sustained success. It’s mind boggling.
This season finished poorly with a run of losses but get some perspective.
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Zero heat from the media. The admin loves him, by all accounts. Not much pressure to exceed the fair to middling results we’ve seen thus far, though I’m sure he’s a competitive guy and wants to do better.
Milwaukee historically isn’t a media market that calls for people’s heads. There would be no reason to do so anyway in this situation, they aren’t as emotional as some of the posters here.
People that strive for great outcomes put pressure on themselves to succeed, Wojo is no different.
The administration loved Terri Mitchell, too, and fired her.
The school understands what he inherited and the process / time it would take. You guys may not like the results in the tournament, nor does Wojo, but the arc is what he is being judged on at the moment and that is nothing of the middling variety you mention.
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Yes. This is exactly right. But people want to fire wojo with the arrow pointing up and the possibility of immediate future success breeding more sustained success. It’s mind boggling.
This season finished poorly with a run of losses but get some perspective.
Our fans have no patience and then they point to examples that required 3 to 5x the patience we give our own coaches. It is mind boggling. They also forget how much Zaga fans bitched about Few and Nova fans wanted Wright gone....until years later they didn’t.
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Gonzaga "did it" by promoting an assistant, Dan Monson, and then, after he bolted for Minnesota, promoting his assistant, Mark Few. It took Monson/Few a combined 18 seasons to reach the Elite Eight and a combined 20 seasons to reach the Final Four.
Nova "did it" by hiring a mid-major guy from Hofstra (where he had a losing record after 4 seasons). It took Jay Wright 4 years at Nova to make the NCAA tourney, 4 more years to reach the Final Four, and 7 years after that -- his 15th season at the school and 22nd as a head coach -- to win the title.
So if we are to follow the Gonzaga/Villanova model, all we need to "do it" is hire either an assistant or a mid-major coach and give him time to build a great program.
What you're really saying is that you want the Gonzaga/Villanova success without having to live through the time it takes to get to that success.
Hey man, I get it. We all want a quick fix. We all want to hire the best and have him lead us to the promised land, and to do it in just a season or two.
But that is the extreme, extreme, extreme rarity. Even when a school gets fortunate enough to hire a Few or a Wright, that school has to stay patient while the program grows and blossoms.
In staying patient, a program might find out it hired the wrong guy. That happens all the time, not just at Marquette. I watched a lot of Illinois basketball; they got lucky with Self, fairly lucky with Weber, but a lot less lucky since; they saw themselves on the brink of "elite," but never quite got there. Texas Tech? Chris Beard fell into their lap; had he not been a 10-year Texas Tech assistant with family in the area, he'd be winning big at UNLV now.
We at Marquette got very, very, very, very (can I write a few more "verys"?) lucky with Al. He was a guy who had gone 13-39 his last 2 years at Belmont Freakin' Abbey. He could have sucked worse than Dukiet. But he ended up being the right mid-major (hell, not even mid-major) man for the right school at the right time.
Do I know if Wojo is the guy who will "do it" at Marquette the way it turned out that Few and Wright have done it at their schools? No I do not. But he has built some momentum, we did have a nice season, we have an even better team coming back next year. I am willing to be patient and see what it brings.
Others are not willing to be patient. They look at Gonzaga and Villanova and say, "Why not us, too?" But they don't want to hear about what it took for Gonzaga and especially Villanova to get to now. I guarantee that many Scoopers would have grumbled about hiring a guy from Hofstra and then, 3 years later, would have wanted that guy fired due to his 52-46 record (21-27 in the BEast), zero NCAA tournament appearances and 11th-place finish in his third year.
I got a real kick out of all the folks who were waxing poetic recently about Kevin Willard -- a hire from Iona who would have killed to have a first 5 seasons as good as Wojo's were.
Doc, you already have made up your mind that Wojo never should have been hired and, once hired, should have been fired long ago. That's your right as a fan, of course. I'm guessing you also felt Buzz should never have been promoted, which was also your right.
Just know that those of us who are a little more patient also very much want our Warriors to win again. I agree we can be the next Villanova if we get the right man in charge and keep him in charge for a long stretch. In my mind, we don't know yet if Wojo is the right man. In your mind, you are already positive that he is not.
I have to say that I hope I'm right on this one.
This is a home run of a reply. Well said.
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Can you just post this reply every time this subject comes up. Sums up the two sides of this argument beautifully.
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Zero heat from the media. The admin loves him, by all accounts. Not much pressure to exceed the fair to middling results we’ve seen thus far, though I’m sure he’s a competitive guy and wants to do better.
Maybe the media, admin, and everyone other than the vocal minority on scoop recognize that the results haven't been fair to middling eh?
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A couple of questions, Doc:
When did this "drop down" happen? When is the last time Marquette went out and hired away a highly regarded head coach from a top conference?
Answer:
Never! (Or at least never in the Al-and-beyond era.)
Al was hired from Belmont Abbey, where he was 13-39 his last two seasons. (I can practically hear the wailing that would have emanated from Scoop1964 after that hire!)
Hank was promoted from assistant.
Rick was promoted from assistant.
Dukiet was hired from St. Peters.
KO was an Arizona assistant.
Deane was hired from Siena.
Creane was a Michigan State assistant.
Buzz was promoted from assistant.
Wojo was a Duke assistant.
A bunch of assistants and mid-major coaches, starting with some clown who won 13 games in his last 2 seasons at the basketball juggernaut that was Belmont Abbey.
In other words, Doc, by your definition, Marquette has ALWAYS been a mid-major in the eyes of those who matter, hey?
Let's look at this year's Elite Eight and their coaching hires:
Duke v. MSU - K from West Point, Izzo a career assistant promoted from within
Auburn v. Kentucky - Disgraced former coach out of work for 4+ years v. established and successful head coach
UVA v. Purdue - Head coach from a Power 5 program (albeit the worst program in the worst P5 conference) v. coach in waiting promotion after 1 year HC at MVC school
Texas Tech v. Gonzaga - 1 year as HC at low major v. internal assistant hire.
Even going to the sweet 16 of the 8 teams that lost, Va Tech, UNC and Michigan had direct high major to high major hires. The others were as follows:
Oregon - mid-major (then MVC Creighton)
LSU - mid-major (A10 VCU)
Florida State - fired NBA coach (with previous college success at a high major)
Tennessee - coach fired from a high major
Houston - disgraced high major coach fired from his previous job
High major to high major moves are pretty rare, often there is some preexisting relationship that spurs the move. Most go the assistant or low to mid major route when hiring. And don't forget, we had high major coaches beating down the door for the job - Cuanzo (Cal), Howland (fired from UCLA) and Weber (K State).
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Gonzaga "did it" by promoting an assistant, Dan Monson, and then, after he bolted for Minnesota, promoting his assistant, Mark Few. It took Monson/Few a combined 18 seasons to reach the Elite Eight and a combined 20 seasons to reach the Final Four.
Nova "did it" by hiring a mid-major guy from Hofstra (where he had a losing record after 4 seasons). It took Jay Wright 4 years at Nova to make the NCAA tourney, 4 more years to reach the Final Four, and 7 years after that -- his 15th season at the school and 22nd as a head coach -- to win the title.
So if we are to follow the Gonzaga/Villanova model, all we need to "do it" is hire either an assistant or a mid-major coach and give him time to build a great program.
What you're really saying is that you want the Gonzaga/Villanova success without having to live through the time it takes to get to that success.
Hey man, I get it. We all want a quick fix. We all want to hire the best and have him lead us to the promised land, and to do it in just a season or two.
But that is the extreme, extreme, extreme rarity. Even when a school gets fortunate enough to hire a Few or a Wright, that school has to stay patient while the program grows and blossoms.
In staying patient, a program might find out it hired the wrong guy. That happens all the time, not just at Marquette. I watched a lot of Illinois basketball; they got lucky with Self, fairly lucky with Weber, but a lot less lucky since; they saw themselves on the brink of "elite," but never quite got there. Texas Tech? Chris Beard fell into their lap; had he not been a 10-year Texas Tech assistant with family in the area, he'd be winning big at UNLV now.
We at Marquette got very, very, very, very (can I write a few more "verys"?) lucky with Al. He was a guy who had gone 13-39 his last 2 years at Belmont Freakin' Abbey. He could have sucked worse than Dukiet. But he ended up being the right mid-major (hell, not even mid-major) man for the right school at the right time.
Do I know if Wojo is the guy who will "do it" at Marquette the way it turned out that Few and Wright have done it at their schools? No I do not. But he has built some momentum, we did have a nice season, we have an even better team coming back next year. I am willing to be patient and see what it brings.
Others are not willing to be patient. They look at Gonzaga and Villanova and say, "Why not us, too?" But they don't want to hear about what it took for Gonzaga and especially Villanova to get to now. I guarantee that many Scoopers would have grumbled about hiring a guy from Hofstra and then, 3 years later, would have wanted that guy fired due to his 52-46 record (21-27 in the BEast), zero NCAA tournament appearances and 11th-place finish in his third year.
I got a real kick out of all the folks who were waxing poetic recently about Kevin Willard -- a hire from Iona who would have killed to have a first 5 seasons as good as Wojo's were.
Doc, you already have made up your mind that Wojo never should have been hired and, once hired, should have been fired long ago. That's your right as a fan, of course. I'm guessing you also felt Buzz should never have been promoted, which was also your right.
Just know that those of us who are a little more patient also very much want our Warriors to win again. I agree we can be the next Villanova if we get the right man in charge and keep him in charge for a long stretch. In my mind, we don't know yet if Wojo is the right man. In your mind, you are already positive that he is not.
I have to say that I hope I'm right on this one.
This is so good. Needs to be pinned to the top
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Gonzaga "did it" by promoting an assistant, Dan Monson, and then, after he bolted for Minnesota, promoting his assistant, Mark Few. It took Monson/Few a combined 18 seasons to reach the Elite Eight and a combined 20 seasons to reach the Final Four.
Nova "did it" by hiring a mid-major guy from Hofstra (where he had a losing record after 4 seasons). It took Jay Wright 4 years at Nova to make the NCAA tourney, 4 more years to reach the Final Four, and 7 years after that -- his 15th season at the school and 22nd as a head coach -- to win the title.
So if we are to follow the Gonzaga/Villanova model, all we need to "do it" is hire either an assistant or a mid-major coach and give him time to build a great program.
What you're really saying is that you want the Gonzaga/Villanova success without having to live through the time it takes to get to that success.
Hey man, I get it. We all want a quick fix. We all want to hire the best and have him lead us to the promised land, and to do it in just a season or two.
But that is the extreme, extreme, extreme rarity. Even when a school gets fortunate enough to hire a Few or a Wright, that school has to stay patient while the program grows and blossoms.
In staying patient, a program might find out it hired the wrong guy. That happens all the time, not just at Marquette. I watched a lot of Illinois basketball; they got lucky with Self, fairly lucky with Weber, but a lot less lucky since; they saw themselves on the brink of "elite," but never quite got there. Texas Tech? Chris Beard fell into their lap; had he not been a 10-year Texas Tech assistant with family in the area, he'd be winning big at UNLV now.
We at Marquette got very, very, very, very (can I write a few more "verys"?) lucky with Al. He was a guy who had gone 13-39 his last 2 years at Belmont Freakin' Abbey. He could have sucked worse than Dukiet. But he ended up being the right mid-major (hell, not even mid-major) man for the right school at the right time.
Do I know if Wojo is the guy who will "do it" at Marquette the way it turned out that Few and Wright have done it at their schools? No I do not. But he has built some momentum, we did have a nice season, we have an even better team coming back next year. I am willing to be patient and see what it brings.
Others are not willing to be patient. They look at Gonzaga and Villanova and say, "Why not us, too?" But they don't want to hear about what it took for Gonzaga and especially Villanova to get to now. I guarantee that many Scoopers would have grumbled about hiring a guy from Hofstra and then, 3 years later, would have wanted that guy fired due to his 52-46 record (21-27 in the BEast), zero NCAA tournament appearances and 11th-place finish in his third year.
I got a real kick out of all the folks who were waxing poetic recently about Kevin Willard -- a hire from Iona who would have killed to have a first 5 seasons as good as Wojo's were.
Doc, you already have made up your mind that Wojo never should have been hired and, once hired, should have been fired long ago. That's your right as a fan, of course. I'm guessing you also felt Buzz should never have been promoted, which was also your right.
Just know that those of us who are a little more patient also very much want our Warriors to win again. I agree we can be the next Villanova if we get the right man in charge and keep him in charge for a long stretch. In my mind, we don't know yet if Wojo is the right man. In your mind, you are already positive that he is not.
I have to say that I hope I'm right on this one.
Solid. And for the record Mike, I get it and why we have done it year after year. My point has been there is more risk that comes with doing it that way and I'd like to cut down on the risk. That said, I get why we have done it and will likely continue to do it.
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Wojo has been here 5 years now...has nothing to show for it. Instead of comparing to other Coaches at other programs...let's compare him to the two previous Coaches at MU in the same time frame..That seems more than fair(though many won't want to talk about this or use some excuse). By year 4, Crean had MU in a Final Four and had won a Conference championship.
By year Four Buzz had MU in a sweet sixteen, and by year have a conference championship, and an Elite 8.
Both with conference titles, and minimum of second weekend appearances in the tournament by year 4.
In 5 years Wojo has....well...uhhh...let's see he's got...well sh*t..Ummm...Ohhhhh I got it...he has two NCAA tourney blowouts! That's what it was..I was having a hard time remembering all the memorable achievements he's had these past 5 years.
Point being...if Buzz and Crean could accomplish what they did...AT THE SAME school where Wojo Coaches..why should Wojo be given a "break"?? They did it(which proves it can be done at MU), yet, you all fawn all over Wojo like his accomplishments have been spectacular. Why hasn't Wojo done the same?? Seems reasonable to expect that, doesn't it?? after all, there's a track record based off the previous two Coaches.
*here come the Wojo apologists and the Excuses, even though my FACTS just took them all behind the woodshed..Not really defendable in Wojo's favor*
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*here come the Wojo apologists and the Excuses, even though my FACTS just took them all behind the woodshed..Not really defendable in Wojo's favor*
So you've won the argument? Then why are you still arguing?
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Wojo has been here 5 years now...has nothing to show for it. Instead of comparing to other Coaches at other programs...let's compare him to the two previous Coaches at MU in the same time frame..That seems more than fair(though many won't want to talk about this or use some excuse). By year 4, Crean had MU in a Final Four and had won a Conference championship.
By year Four Buzz had MU in a sweet sixteen, and by year have a conference championship, and an Elite 8.
Both with conference titles, and minimum of second weekend appearances in the tournament by year 4.
In 5 years Wojo has....well...uhhh...let's see he's got...well sh*t..Ummm...Ohhhhh I got it...he has two NCAA tourney blowouts! That's what it was..I was having a hard time remembering all the memorable achievements he's had these past 5 years.
Point being...if Buzz and Crean could accomplish what they did...AT THE SAME school where Wojo Coaches..why should Wojo be given a "break"?? They did it(which proves it can be done at MU), yet, you all fawn all over Wojo like his accomplishments have been spectacular. Why hasn't Wojo done the same?? Seems reasonable to expect that, doesn't it?? after all, there's a track record based off the previous two Coaches.
*here come the Wojo apologists and the Excuses, even though my FACTS just took them all behind the woodshed..Not really defendable in Wojo's favor*
A few questions, guru:
1. Do you believe anything you say here will change the minds of those who disagrees with you?
2. Is there anything that someone who disagrees with you can say that will change your mind?
3. If the answer to those questions is "no," why do you continue to beat a horse that's as dead as anything that's ever been dead?
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*here come the Wojo apologists and the Excuses, even though my FACTS just took them all behind the woodshed..Not really defendable in Wojo's favor*
Oh, good lord, what a dope.
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Stan reads Scoop:
Stan Johnson @MUCoachJohnson
Congrats to our friends the @Bucks what a difference a year makes! Better yet, what a difference 5 years make. It’s been fun to watch the entire organization grow and improve over time. The things that last the longest, take the longest to develop! #mubb is behind you! #process
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Wojo has been here 5 years now...has nothing to show for it. Instead of comparing to other Coaches at other programs...let's compare him to the two previous Coaches at MU in the same time frame..That seems more than fair(though many won't want to talk about this or use some excuse). By year 4, Crean had MU in a Final Four and had won a Conference championship.
By year Four Buzz had MU in a sweet sixteen, and by year have a conference championship, and an Elite 8.
Both with conference titles, and minimum of second weekend appearances in the tournament by year 4.
In 5 years Wojo has....well...uhhh...let's see he's got...well sh*t..Ummm...Ohhhhh I got it...he has two NCAA tourney blowouts! That's what it was..I was having a hard time remembering all the memorable achievements he's had these past 5 years.
Point being...if Buzz and Crean could accomplish what they did...AT THE SAME school where Wojo Coaches..why should Wojo be given a "break"?? They did it(which proves it can be done at MU), yet, you all fawn all over Wojo like his accomplishments have been spectacular. Why hasn't Wojo done the same?? Seems reasonable to expect that, doesn't it?? after all, there's a track record based off the previous two Coaches.
*here come the Wojo apologists and the Excuses, even though my FACTS just took them all behind the woodshed..Not really defendable in Wojo's favor*
I shouldn't even dignify this Rant #9477 of yours with a response, but ...
How 'bout this ... maybe Wojo isn't quite as good a coach at this stage of his career as Crean and Buzz were.
If I admit that -- and I'm only admitting to "maybe" -- then what solution would you suggest right here and right now, guru? If you were the MU president, you would fire Wojo today? And then what?
Let's hear your "solution," guru. And make it realistic, please. Neither Tony Bennett nor Chris Beard nor John Calipari is walking through that door.
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Wojo has been here 5 years now...has nothing to show for it. Instead of comparing to other Coaches at other programs...let's compare him to the two previous Coaches at MU in the same time frame..That seems more than fair(though many won't want to talk about this or use some excuse). By year 4, Crean had MU in a Final Four and had won a Conference championship.
By year Four Buzz had MU in a sweet sixteen, and by year have a conference championship, and an Elite 8.
Both with conference titles, and minimum of second weekend appearances in the tournament by year 4.
In 5 years Wojo has....well...uhhh...let's see he's got...well sh*t..Ummm...Ohhhhh I got it...he has two NCAA tourney blowouts! That's what it was..I was having a hard time remembering all the memorable achievements he's had these past 5 years.
Point being...if Buzz and Crean could accomplish what they did...AT THE SAME school where Wojo Coaches..why should Wojo be given a "break"?? They did it(which proves it can be done at MU), yet, you all fawn all over Wojo like his accomplishments have been spectacular. Why hasn't Wojo done the same?? Seems reasonable to expect that, doesn't it?? after all, there's a track record based off the previous two Coaches.
*here come the Wojo apologists and the Excuses, even though my FACTS just took them all behind the woodshed..Not really defendable in Wojo's favor*
Nothing to show for it? Just stop. The last three years, three post season bids, two of them NCAA bids. Those are something. You may not like the outcomes, including losing to one team that went to the Final Four, but they are something.
A kid that became AP 2nd Team All American and Finalist for Wooden Award. That is something
Highest attendance in years, first time ever in top 10 attendance. That is something.
Etc, etc
Just stop
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A few questions, guru:
1. Do you believe anything you say here will change the minds of those who disagrees with you?
2. Is there anything that someone who disagrees with you can say that will change your mind?
3. If the answer to those questions is "no," why do you continue to beat a horse that's as dead as anything that's ever been dead?
Because Guru is a one trick pony!!!Repeat..repeat… repeat.. Maybe then some one will believe him.
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Stan reads Scoop:
Stan Johnson @MUCoachJohnson
Congrats to our friends the @Bucks what a difference a year makes! Better yet, what a difference 5 years make. It’s been fun to watch the entire organization grow and improve over time. The things that last the longest, take the longest to develop! #mubb is behind you! #process
The day you plant the seed is not the day you eat the fruit.
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...you all fawn all over Wojo...
I don't think that phrase means what you think it means. Even the people on this board who are supporting Wojo -- and I generally would place myself in that category -- have expressed a fair amount of concern. My read on the situation is that a lot of people feel the same way I feel: over all a pretty good season; disastrous end; trending in the right direction; hasn't done anything warranting being fired; outlook for next year looks good on paper; he needs to get better. None of that is even remotely close to "fawning all over Wojo" in my opinion.
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Wojo has been here 5 years now...has nothing to show for it. Instead of comparing to other Coaches at other programs...let's compare him to the two previous Coaches at MU in the same time frame..That seems more than fair(though many won't want to talk about this or use some excuse). By year 4, Crean had MU in a Final Four and had won a Conference championship.
By year Four Buzz had MU in a sweet sixteen, and by year have a conference championship, and an Elite 8.
Both with conference titles, and minimum of second weekend appearances in the tournament by year 4.
In 5 years Wojo has....well...uhhh...let's see he's got...well sh*t..Ummm...Ohhhhh I got it...he has two NCAA tourney blowouts! That's what it was..I was having a hard time remembering all the memorable achievements he's had these past 5 years.
Point being...if Buzz and Crean could accomplish what they did...AT THE SAME school where Wojo Coaches..why should Wojo be given a "break"?? They did it(which proves it can be done at MU), yet, you all fawn all over Wojo like his accomplishments have been spectacular. Why hasn't Wojo done the same?? Seems reasonable to expect that, doesn't it?? after all, there's a track record based off the previous two Coaches.
*here come the Wojo apologists and the Excuses, even though my FACTS just took them all behind the woodshed..Not really defendable in Wojo's favor*
Are we somehow forgetting that Crean was fortunate to have D Wade fall into his lap as a partial qualifier- something that doesn’t exist any more for many reasons. Without that I seriously doubt he has the success he did in such a short time.
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I shouldn't even dignify this Rant #9477 of yours with a response, but ...
How 'bout this ... maybe Wojo isn't quite as good a coach at this stage of his career as Crean and Buzz were.
If I admit that -- and I'm only admitting to "maybe" -- then what solution would you suggest right here and right now, guru? If you were the MU president, you would fire Wojo today? And then what?
Let's hear your "solution," guru. And make it realistic, please. Neither Tony Bennett nor Chris Beard nor John Calipari is walking through that door.
Thad Matta...end of discussion.
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Nothing to show for it? Just stop. The last three years, three post season bids, two of them NCAA bids. Those are something. You may not like the outcomes, including losing to one team that went to the Final Four, but they are something.
A kid that became AP 2nd Team All American and Finalist for Wooden Award. That is something
Highest attendance in years, first time ever in top 10 attendance. That is something.
Etc, etc
Just stop
Game...set...match...guru. That one's deep and not playable. Great job avoiding answering why TC and Buzz were where they were at MU after year 5, but Wojo couldn't match that??
Trust me..we are going to find out just how good of a Coach Wojo really is next year. Could be ugly.
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Are we somehow forgetting that Crean was fortunate to have D Wade fall into his lap as a partial qualifier- something that doesn’t exist any more for many reasons. Without that I seriously doubt he has the success he did in such a short time.
"fall into his lap?" Crean went to the mat for Wade and got MU to accept him whereas in the past they would not have done so. It's not like Wade was some unknown kid in rural Alaska that Crean just happened to find on vacation or that Wade just happened to show up in his office one day and ask if he could be on the team, as Rony Seikaly did at Syracuse.
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Little help here, how do you block people again?
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"fall into his lap?" Crean went to the mat for Wade and got MU to accept him whereas in the past they would not have done so. It's not like Wade was some unknown kid in rural Alaska that Crean just happened to find on vacation or that Wade just happened to show up in his office one day and ask if he could be on the team, as Rony Seikaly did at Syracuse.
Sid Finch?
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See Guru, here's what I don't really get. Everyone that frequents this board already knows your position on both Wojo and the program. You haven't presented a ton of new material on the matter in the last couple of weeks. It has become painfully obvious that nothing anyone says can change you opinion, and nothing that you say can change other's opinion and despite folks here having the final say on all things Arby's, no one here has the authority to actually make a coaching change.
If your argument is so bulletproof, taking people "behind the woodshed", why don't you share them with the BOT and other University higher ups, I'm sure they qualify as "Wojo apologists".? I understand the need to vent after the way the season finished, but unless you go to the higher ups, you are quite literally screaming into the void known as the internet. By my count there are three things that you can do to actually inflict the change you want to see; 1, write the University, 2, stop buying tickets, and 3, pull your donation to the University. These are all things that you can do that have an actual chance of resulting in the dismissal of Wojo, but all it seems that you want to do is get into fight with strangers on the internet, which will not result in Wojo's firing no matter how much you do it.
You have a voice that you can use to talk to people that can actually make a change, but all you seem to want to do is bang your head against a wall on the internet. You want Wojo gone, talk to the people that can actually make it happen.
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Thad Matta...end of discussion.
Matta turned down 5 years and $16 million from Georgia a year ago before Crean got the gig.
So far this carousel offseason, the only job that he has been attached to is the UNLV job. Which went to........
Maybe in a year if Wojo tanks next season, but there is absolutely nothing in a quick google search to indicate that he is currently seeking his next head coaching position.
So your position is to fire Wojo for a coach who had to leave his last job due to health issues and has made no indication he wants to get back in. On the off chance that MU will be the gig that changes his mind.
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Thad Matta...end of discussion.
Thad Matta no matta
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"I hadn’t woke up in a good mood in like 18 years. That’s what coaching is. You can’t be happy." - Thad Matta
Definitely the guy I want to be the coach of our team.
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"I hadn’t woke up in a good mood in like 18 years. That’s what coaching is. You can’t be happy." - Thad Matta
Definitely the guy I want to be the coach of our team.
I think you can be miserable and be a good coach. I don't know if Saban is ever happy, and he's done ok for himself.
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Sid Finch?
damn his obsession with the French Horn.
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I think you can be miserable and be a good coach. I don't know if Saban is ever happy, and he's done ok for himself.
Saban is happiest when he's unhappy. The guy lives for the grind and the process.
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Thad Matta...end of discussion.
So you would fire Wojo today and hire Matta -- if he'll come. OK, at least you've presented your solution. I totally disagree with it, but at least you gave a solution.
Now, what if Matta turns you down and/or during the courting of him you get the vibe that he's simply not mentally and physically ready to coach on this level? What's your backup plan?
"fall into his lap?" Crean went to the mat for Wade and got MU to accept him whereas in the past they would not have done so. It's not like Wade was some unknown kid in rural Alaska that Crean just happened to find on vacation or that Wade just happened to show up in his office one day and ask if he could be on the team, as Rony Seikaly did at Syracuse.
I agree, BH. I don't think it's fair to say Crean didn't "earn" having Wade on the Warriors. There are plenty of things for TC-haters to criticize.
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Matta turned down 5 years and $16 million from Georgia a year ago before Crean got the gig.
So far this carousel offseason, the only job that he has been attached to is the UNLV job. Which went to........
Maybe in a year if Wojo tanks next season, but there is absolutely nothing in a quick google search to indicate that he is currently seeking his next head coaching position.
So your position is to fire Wojo for a coach who had to leave his last job due to health issues and has made no indication he wants to get back in. On the off chance that MU will be the gig that changes his mind.
LA Times did list Matta with the UCLA job.
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Yeah but was Matta interested?
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LA Times did list Matta with the UCLA job.
He withdrew from consideration.
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He withdrew from consideration.
Just in case Marquette comes calling.
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Just in case Marquette comes calling.
Lol....... :D
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Saban is happiest when he's unhappy. The guy lives for the grind and the process.
A tshirt with Saban dressed up as a goth kid with makeup would be my everything.
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Just in case Marquette comes calling.
(http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2400511/shockedmatta.gif)
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I know he had health issues, but Matta's last four years at Ohio State were:
2013: 25-10, first round loss
2014 - 24-11, second round loss
2015 - 21-14 NIT
2016 - 17-15, no postseason
Out of coaching for two years.
Why would he be a good choice? Holtmann came in in 2017 and immediately turned it around and has won NCAA games each year.
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I know he had health issues, but Matta's last four years at Ohio State were:
2013: 25-10, first round loss
2014 - 24-11, second round loss
2015 - 21-14 NIT
2016 - 17-15, no postseason
Out of coaching for two years.
Why would he be a good choice? Holtmann came in in 2017 and immediately turned it around and has won NCAA games each year.
Oh stop with the facts and reasonable questions and stuff, MUe.
Matta would be a good choice because he's 1,000 times better than Wojo - duh!
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Just in case Marquette comes calling.
Ever think maybe, just maybe he's a midwest guy, and that's why he turned down Georgia and withdrew from UCLA?? Mock and make fun all you want...but how do you know he wouldn't take the MU job?? Maybe after all the time off he's had he'd feel better at a smaller school like MU. You have ZERO way of knowing that...NONE.
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Oh stop with the facts and reasonable questions and stuff, MUe.
Matta would be a good choice because he's 1,000 times better than Wojo - duh!
I've had enough of you mocking me, taking shots etc...It's so tired and old. Done with you...what a freaking tool.
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Ever think maybe, just maybe he's a midwest guy, and that's why he turned down Georgia and withdrew from UCLA?? Mock and make fun all you want...but how do you know he wouldn't take the MU job?? Maybe after all the time off he's had he'd feel better at a smaller school like MU. You have ZERO way of knowing that...NONE.
NOR. DO. YOU.
Are you seriously this thick?
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Oh stop with the facts and reasonable questions and stuff, MUe.
Matta would be a good choice because he's 1,000 times better than Wojo - duh!
And just so you know...Brewcity77 who you all have a ton of respect for(and rightly so), LOVES Matta, and would be his choice as well...But you wouldn't ridicule him for that(nor should you). You'd suddenly start to think he was a good choice. So hypocritical of everyone..
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NOR. DO. YOU.
Are you seriously this thick?
You sure I don't know??
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These questions should be asked of those who make the business decisions at Marquette. For a school that has 1 revenue generating sport, it is mind boggling to not maximize the potential to be a player on a major stage. In fact, going back to 1977 and seeing and feeling the revenue, free publicity, increased applications, etc. and then dropping the ball and peeing down their leg, its beyond believable. If Gonzaga and Villanova can do it, what's MU's issue?
A lot of small minded thinking. The three biggest mistakes in MU history were all a function of that.
1. Having Hank succeed Al instead of the likes Denny Crum etc who could have sustained our excellence.
2. Getting rid of the Football program because it was generating a small annual loss.
3. Getting rid of the Medical School. Which is now the hugely successful Medical College of Wisconsin.
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You sure I don't know??
Unequivocally
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A lot of small minded thinking. The three biggest mistakes in MU history were all a function of that.
1. Having Hank succeed Al instead of the likes Denny Crum etc who could have sustained our excellence.
2. Getting rid of the Football program because it was generating a small annual loss.
3. Getting rid of the Medical School. Which is now the hugely successful Medical College of Wisconsin.
Getting rid of football was not a mistake. Replacing Al with Hank was not a mistake.
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And just so you know...Brewcity77 who you all have a ton of respect for(and rightly so), LOVES Matta, and would be his choice as well...But you wouldn't ridicule him for that(nor should you). You'd suddenly start to think he was a good choice. So hypocritical of everyone..
I'm not advocating for Wojo's firing. I fully think that right now sticking with him is the right thing to do. But if I woke up tomorrow to learn he took the UCLA job, I would be the charter member of the #MarquetteDoMatta letter writing campaign.
If he's healthy enough to coach, he's the only realistic target that would immediately be the answer to the question "who's the best coach in the country without a national title?" Huggins, Bennett, & Kruger could make a case, but I think it's still probably Matta. He had top-6 recruiting classes almost every year, was regularly competing for top seeds, has been to Final Fours & a national championship game, and is still only 51 years old.
Not saying you fire Wojo to get him, but if Wojo left tomorrow, I don't believe there's another realistic candidate that would immediately be considered one of the best coaches in the game, hands down, & could stick around for 15-20 years.
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Getting rid of football was not a mistake. Replacing Al with Hank was not a mistake.
Replacing Al with Hank turned out to be a mistake. Marquette's steady decline into irrelevance began under Hank when Al's recruits departed. Hank got out-recruited by Ray Meyer in Chicago and by Denny Crum & others in the New York metro area by a million miles.
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Not saying you fire Wojo to get him, but if Wojo left tomorrow, I don't believe there's another realistic candidate that would immediately be considered one of the best coaches in the game, hands down, & could stick around for 15-20 years.
I would be fine with Matta, but despite all the accomplishments you mention, it's not a slam dunk. As noted, his level of success was clearly in steep decline at the end of his Ohio State tenure, both in terms of record and recruiting (his 2016 class ranked 42nd despte four recruits, 2017 ranked 24th with three recruits).
Also, given his health history, there's a risk that you're hiring a guy who could up and quit at any time, either by choice or because his health requires it.
Again, I wouldn't be against it, but it wouldn't be a safe hire by any stretch.
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I'm not advocating for Wojo's firing. I fully think that right now sticking with him is the right thing to do. But if I woke up tomorrow to learn he took the UCLA job, I would be the charter member of the #MarquetteDoMatta letter writing campaign.
If he's healthy enough to coach, he's the only realistic target that would immediately be the answer to the question "who's the best coach in the country without a national title?" Huggins, Bennett, & Kruger could make a case, but I think it's still probably Matta. He had top-6 recruiting classes almost every year, was regularly competing for top seeds, has been to Final Fours & a national championship game, and is still only 51 years old.
Not saying you fire Wojo to get him, but if Wojo left tomorrow, I don't believe there's another realistic candidate that would immediately be considered one of the best coaches in the game, hands down, & could stick around for 15-20 years.
+1000
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Everyone is a risk. Matta is the most proven commodity out there. I realize no coach is a guarantee anywhere, but there's no one in the country available who you could immediately say "yeah that guy could win a national title in the next 5 years, no doubt."
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+1000
You act like this is vindication, but it’s not. I suspect many of us - if not most - would want Marquette to take a run at Matta (and other quality coaches) if Wojo left. That’s not a particularly surprising or controversial position. The question seems to be whether MU should fire Wojo in the hopes that Matta (or another quality coach) would get hired. You seem to think the answer to that question is yes. Others disagree.
If you could 100% guarantee that Matta would take the job, some might be willing to go along with that. But you can’t make that guarantee. And people are understandably not necessarily wanting MU to fire Wojo in the hope that we’ll improve out coaching situation. We might end up better off. But, we might end up worse off. Many - including me - think Wojo has done well enough that it’s not worth the risk. Ask me again in a year.
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Everyone is a risk. Matta is the most proven commodity out there. I realize no coach is a guarantee anywhere, but there's no one in the country available who you could immediately say "yeah that guy could win a national title in the next 5 years, no doubt."
Rick Pitino is available (not that I want him anywhere near Marquette).
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You act like this is vindication, but it’s not. I suspect many of us - if not most - would want Marquette to take a run at Matta (and other quality coaches) if Wojo left. That’s not a particularly surprising or controversial position. The question seems to be whether MU should fire Wojo in the hopes that Matta (or another quality coach) would get hired. You seem to think the answer to that question is yes. Others disagree.
If you could 100% guarantee that Matta would take the job, some might be willing to go along with that. But you can’t make that guarantee. And people are understandably not necessarily wanting MU to fire Wojo in the hope that we’ll improve out coaching situation. We might end up better off. But, we might end up worse off. Many - including me - think Wojo has done well enough that it’s not worth the risk. Ask me again in a year.
I'm not necessarily advocating firing Wojo with the hopes of hiring Matta...what I meant was if he were to leave, whether that being fired or leaving on his own. Matta would be my first, second and third calls. Hands down. Let's put it this way...I am very comfortable in saying that if MU fired Wojo, that they would get a Coach better than Wojo...that is IF they hired someone with experience this time. Would they get as good of a recruiter?? That i can't be certain of, but I'm comfortable saying if MU hired an older, experienced Coach, they would get a better Coach RIGHT now than Wojo is. Could Wojo become great?? Sure he could...but I'm not sure it's going to be anytime soon(within the next year or two) and if not...why keep him around??
As i have said before...I compare this to an athlete retiring, they always say it's better to do it a year to soon, rather than a year to late. That's how I feel about Wojo.
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I've had enough of you mocking me, taking shots etc...It's so tired and old. Done with you...what a freaking tool.
If you think I was mocking only you, then you saw a little too much of yourself in my one-liner.
For a guy who's "football tough" and highly "competitive," you sure can dish it out but can't take it.
Oh and BTW, I'm already on record saying that if the job were open, Matta would be the first coach I would call to see if he were interested in the job and up for the challenge. I have my doubts whether that's the case, but I'd definitely check into it. He did a nice job at Ohio State until fading badly at the end.
Oh and double BTW, you gave brew a +1000 for saying he wouldn't fire Wojo. You have said multiple times that you would, so glad to see that you have changed your tune and, like brew, "fully think that right now sticking with him is the right thing to do."
Oh and triple BTW, it hurts that you're done with me. I thought we completed each other.
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Personally, I'm skeptical of Matta. He had the chops but Ohio State was in a tailspin before he left. I'm not sure he is the same coach he was earlier in his career. Would certainly would want us to give him a call, but he'd need to give a pretty convincing interview.
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I find it interesting that Guru's level of respect for Brew seems to grow like The Incredible Hulk when he finds the rare topic where Brew's opinion supports his own........ 8-)
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Personally, I'm skeptical of Matta. He had the chops but Ohio State was in a tailspin before he left. I'm not sure he is the same coach he was earlier in his career. Would certainly would want us to give him a call, but he'd need to give a pretty convincing interview.
Agreed.
If there was an opening. Which there isn't. And there won't be after we kick arse next year. Unless Wojo uses a great season to leave us. Which would have most of Scoop bemoaning our stepping-stone status.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
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I find it interesting that Guru's level of respect for Brew seems to grow like The Incredible Hulk when he finds the rare topic where Brew's opinion supports his own........ 8-)
You're another one that never misses an opportunity to take a shot at me either Mark. I've been around the boards long enough, and read enough of your posts to know, that for whatever reason, you always seem to think everything is "seashells and balloons" with MU and the BB program. I'm not sure i have ever seen anyone else like that. You seem to be very much an "is what it is" type of guy. If they lose 5 or 6 in a row you're the one that leads the charge that says "it happens to everyone at some point". If a player leaves to go pro, or a coach leaves it's "congratulations and good luck". I never advocate ripping on players, but I think the next time you ever say anything controversial, would be the first time. That's fine if that's your style, but man..it's just weird how someone can be that much "eh, oh well" about seemingly everything.
Oh, and when someone(particularly me) posts something you don't agree with, you'll let them know, or never miss an opportunity to take a veiled "shot" at me. It's fine...I just think it's strange...it's like no one else can have a thought or an opinion that is even the least bit contrarian or controversial.
It's always like you go out of your way to praise the other team in most instances rather than say anything even minutely negative about MU's play.
Either you are the most laid back, non chalant guy ever or...idk. Are you like that with everything in your personal life to?? "Eh, crap happens"?? If someone beat you out for a job, instead of seeing them as the enemy or having a bit of anger you'd be like "Congratulations, and good luck". That's just plain...strange to me.
I will give you credit though, when I first started coming to boards, I used to get on you about being to "soft" in regards to Wisconsin basketball. That has changed a lot through the years. Still not as hate filled as I'd like to see, but so much better. I'm proud of you for that! :P
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Guru
I think your heart is in the right place. I believe that is the case for most here. It’s the how and why that we disagree with at times.
Peace
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You need to relax dude.....it was just a little joke.....
Not going to go into my personal life on a basketball board but I started my own company when I was 27( along with 2 partners)......through the years have had many successes and failures.....but it worked out well and I never regretted taking the chance.....and yes I manage to keep things in perspective the vast majority of the time..........
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Ever think maybe, just maybe he's a midwest guy, and that's why he turned down Georgia and withdrew from UCLA?? Mock and make fun all you want...but how do you know he wouldn't take the MU job?? Maybe after all the time off he's had he'd feel better at a smaller school like MU. You have ZERO way of knowing that...NONE.
I have exactly the same way of knowing as you do.
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Personally, I'm skeptical of Matta. He had the chops but Ohio State was in a tailspin before he left. I'm not sure he is the same coach he was earlier in his career. Would certainly would want us to give him a call, but he'd need to give a pretty convincing interview.
Didn't Matta's drop off from semi elite status coincide with some serious health problems? IIRC he was in excruciating pain through most of his last several years at Ohio State.
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In too much pain to dry off the court on the aircraft carrier.
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Didn't Matta's drop off from semi elite status coincide with some serious health problems? IIRC he was in excruciating pain through most of his last several years at Ohio State.
Yes. And I don't believe those problems have disappeared
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In too much pain to dry off the court on the aircraft carrier.
Didn't stop the Buzzard!
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If it hasn't been mentioned, Rick Barnes is the latest coach to turn down UCLA.
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If it hasn't been mentioned, Rick Barnes is the latest coach to turn down UCLA.
Their search has been such a disaster...I think at this point if any of us apply for it, we'd have a decent shot at getting it. :P
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You need to relax dude.....it was just a little joke.....
Not going to go into my personal life on a basketball board but I started my own company when I was 27( along with 2 partners)......through the years have had many successes and failures.....but it worked out well and I never regretted taking the chance.....and yes I manage to keep things in perspective the vast majority of the time..........
If you weren't such a wuss, you'd have been a hard-working football player instead of a lazy, good-for-nuthin' business owner.
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Doesn't Thad Matta have serious health issues? I was reading that he was involved with UNLV, and it was UNLV who pulled out.
Matta is unable to stand for extended periods of time. something like that.
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Doesn't Thad Matta have serious health issues? I was reading that he was involved with UNLV, and it was UNLV who pulled out.
Matta is unable to stand for extended periods of time. something like that.
If he had to coach our terrible team, he wouldn't be able to stand 'em for long ... bada bum! ... I'll be here all week!
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AAU power broker Dinos Trigonis tweeting Wojo or Earl Watson for UCLA. Watson doesn’t have a degree, that could be an issue.
“Don't worry there is a silver lining at end of the rainbow. Bruins will end up with either Earl Watson or Steve Wojo. Both young, bright and oozing with elite coaching potential”
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Doesn't Thad Matta have serious health issues? I was reading that he was involved with UNLV, and it was UNLV who pulled out.
Matta is unable to stand for extended periods of time. something like that.
Maybe a Marquette robotics team could create an exoskeleton of sorts for Thad?
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Yeah, Wojo ain't going to UCLA
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Matta is unable to stand for extended periods of time. something like that.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/26xBIK0zk4r0gcaac/giphy.gif)
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Yeah, Wojo ain't going to UCLA
Sounds like hardly anybody wants the gig.
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Rick Pitino is available (not that I want him anywhere near Marquette).
Why not. Lots of Italian eating places in Milwaukee where he could play his trade mother tables. And he could stable his horses in the farm fields of Saukville.
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Fake news. Wojo would not be a coach any school in the country besides MU is interested in. Haven’t we learned anything on Scoop?
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Yeah, Wojo ain't going to UCLA
He likely isn't, but you do understand that Trangonis isn't just pulling names randomly out of the air, right?? Their are specific reasons he keeps mentioning him.
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wades
Do you think TAMU is a know it all? He often states opinion as fact. As for me, I respect that he is sharing an opinion and take it as that, even if not in line with my way of thinking.
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He likely isn't, but you do understand that Trangonis isn't just pulling names randomly out of the air, right?? Their are specific reasons he keeps mentioning him.
Your always saying their is a reason, but who's fault is that? They're could be any number of people telling Trangonis, "There my guy for the UCLA gig!"
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wades
Do you think TAMU is a know it all? He often states opinion as fact. As for me, I respect that he is sharing an opinion and take it as that, even if not in line with my way of thinking.
Do I?
Im actually quite careful about when I state something as a fact.
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wades
All I know about you is the biggest game of the year posts and starting a ton of threads.
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He likely isn't, but you do understand that Trangonis isn't just pulling names randomly out of the air, right?? Their are specific reasons he keeps mentioning him.
Yes there is a reason. It's that our coach is a young up and comer that most view
as being very successful at Marquette. So Wojo is on some people's wishlists, that doesn't mean he's leaving or even interviewing
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TAMU
Wishlists usually are quite well known in today’s world. It appears to me that every job opening that Wojo has been linked to has been rouge twitter guys. If Coach Cal is linked to a job there usually is some substance behind it. Has Wojo’s agent protected him better than any coach in ball history and kept leaks to record low level?
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TAMU
Wishlists usually are quite well known in today’s world. It appears to me that every job opening that Wojo has been linked to has been rouge twitter guys. If Coach Cal is linked to a job there usually is some substance behind it. Has Wojo’s agent protected him better than any coach in ball history and kept leaks to record low level?
UNLV was a rogue twitter guy. VT there was substance. No idea on UCLA.
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Weren’t there rumors back in the day that Wojo offered Tregonis an assistant coaching gig? So perhaps they know one another quite well? I wonder if this is Wojo putting his name out there for extension leverage.
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Weren’t there rumors back in the day that Wojo offered Tregonis an assistant coaching gig? So perhaps they know one another quite well? I wonder if this is Wojo putting his name out there for extension leverage.
From what I've heard, that's not the kind of game Wojo plays
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The other possibility is Dino likes Wojo and wants him out west. But I don’t think Wojo is going to UCLA either.
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Weren’t there rumors back in the day that Wojo offered Tregonis an assistant coaching gig? So perhaps they know one another quite well? I wonder if this is Wojo putting his name out there for extension leverage.
Bingo! At least as far as the connection goes..Trangonis isn't putting his name out there for extension leverage though. Just as his name wasn't out there for the Va Tech job(which was more then just his name being out there), for leverage. Connect the dots.
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wades
All I know about you is the biggest game of the year posts and starting a ton of threads.
And all I know about you is that you have forgotten more about basketball than I will ever know about it. I bow to your knowledge.
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wades
We do agree on something.
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wades
We do agree on something.
Yup. I just take your words as Gospel now. So when you stated that I knew.
I believe it was Plato who once astutely said, “I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing. Except that Goose knows more about basketball than me.”
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So the vocal minority that want Wojo fired have come up with basically some version of the following. Fire Wojo and then:
1. Reach out to or hire Matta. Ignoring that the guy either doesn't want to coach, and ignore all of the other openings where he did not get the job or did not pursue the job. Ignoring health issues or hey, contact the guy and see how he is doing. Fine, but not much of a realistic idea here it seems. I'd hope those in the know would already know something on this one. Maybe we can do like St. John's did to Mullin and look around and see who we can get, and then when Mullin finds out we're looking, deny it. At least Mullin resigned.
2. Promote Stan for a year and tell him maybe he'll get the job or maybe not after MU sees who is available next year. That sounds like a winning plan. Let's ignore what that does to recruiting, retaining players, and what it says to Stan or that Stan would even accept something like that... I some how doubt that goes well. Definitely kills recruiting and player retention in the short term.
3. Go get a top guy at at top school who would surely come to MU for less money or equal pay...? Not sure how this one works.
4. Ignore the history of MU hires that was so well set forth, and that if there is a hire it will likely to an assistant or a low D1 coach. Unproven either way
Let me add, when a school is rumored to be looking at Wojo, state that is not the case because Wojo is not good and no one would want him. All false rumors. I'm sure VT would have told Wojo no, since they got the guy they really wanted, and the idea that VT would have any interest in Wojo has to be complete baloney.
It could be that like the majority here and the MU administration, others see something in Wojo and what he has done to date and where the program is at... but wait, that doesn't fit the Wojo is so terrible no one would want him.
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So the vocal minority that want Wojo fired have come up with basically some version of the following. Fire Wojo and then:
1. Reach out to or hire Matta. Ignoring that the guy either doesn't want to coach, and ignore all of the other openings where he did not get the job or did not pursue the job. Ignoring health issues or hey, contact the guy and see how he is doing. Fine, but not much of a realistic idea here it seems. I'd hope those in the know would already know something on this one. Maybe we can do like St. John's did to Mullin and look around and see who we can get, and then when Mullin finds out we're looking, deny it. At least Mullin resigned.
2. Promote Stan for a year and tell him maybe he'll get the job or maybe not after MU sees who is available next year. That sounds like a winning plan. Let's ignore what that does to recruiting, retaining players, and what it says to Stan or that Stan would even accept something like that... I some how doubt that goes well. Definitely kills recruiting and player retention in the short term.
3. Go get a top guy at at top school who would surely come to MU for less money or equal pay...? Not sure how this one works.
4. Ignore the history of MU hires that was so well set forth, and that if there is a hire it will likely to an assistant or a low D1 coach. Unproven either way
Let me add, when a school is rumored to be looking at Wojo, state that is not the case because Wojo is not good and no one would want him. All false rumors. I'm sure VT would have told Wojo no, since they got the guy they really wanted, and the idea that VT would have any interest in Wojo has to be complete baloney.
It could be that like the majority here and the MU administration, others see something in Wojo and what he has done to date and where the program is at... but wait, that doesn't fit the Wojo is so terrible no one would want him.
This is all accurate.
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So the vocal minority that want Wojo fired have come up with basically some version of the following. Fire Wojo and then:
1. Reach out to or hire Matta. Ignoring that the guy either doesn't want to coach, and ignore all of the other openings where he did not get the job or did not pursue the job. Ignoring health issues or hey, contact the guy and see how he is doing. Fine, but not much of a realistic idea here it seems. I'd hope those in the know would already know something on this one. Maybe we can do like St. John's did to Mullin and look around and see who we can get, and then when Mullin finds out we're looking, deny it. At least Mullin resigned.
2. Promote Stan for a year and tell him maybe he'll get the job or maybe not after MU sees who is available next year. That sounds like a winning plan. Let's ignore what that does to recruiting, retaining players, and what it says to Stan or that Stan would even accept something like that... I some how doubt that goes well. Definitely kills recruiting and player retention in the short term.
3. Go get a top guy at at top school who would surely come to MU for less money or equal pay...? Not sure how this one works.
4. Ignore the history of MU hires that was so well set forth, and that if there is a hire it will likely to an assistant or a low D1 coach. Unproven either way
Let me add, when a school is rumored to be looking at Wojo, state that is not the case because Wojo is not good and no one would want him. All false rumors. I'm sure VT would have told Wojo no, since they got the guy they really wanted, and the idea that VT would have any interest in Wojo has to be complete baloney.
It could be that like the majority here and the MU administration, others see something in Wojo and what he has done to date and where the program is at... but wait, that doesn't fit the Wojo is so terrible no one would want him.
Don't forget, Wojo is going to stay at Marquette because it's a comfortable gig since the BOT and administration don't have any expectations for the program.
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So the vocal minority that want Wojo fired have come up with basically some version of the following. Fire Wojo and then:
1. Reach out to or hire Matta. Ignoring that the guy either doesn't want to coach, and ignore all of the other openings where he did not get the job or did not pursue the job. Ignoring health issues or hey, contact the guy and see how he is doing. Fine, but not much of a realistic idea here it seems. I'd hope those in the know would already know something on this one. Maybe we can do like St. John's did to Mullin and look around and see who we can get, and then when Mullin finds out we're looking, deny it. At least Mullin resigned.
2. Promote Stan for a year and tell him maybe he'll get the job or maybe not after MU sees who is available next year. That sounds like a winning plan. Let's ignore what that does to recruiting, retaining players, and what it says to Stan or that Stan would even accept something like that... I some how doubt that goes well. Definitely kills recruiting and player retention in the short term.
3. Go get a top guy at at top school who would surely come to MU for less money or equal pay...? Not sure how this one works.
4. Ignore the history of MU hires that was so well set forth, and that if there is a hire it will likely to an assistant or a low D1 coach. Unproven either way
Let me add, when a school is rumored to be looking at Wojo, state that is not the case because Wojo is not good and no one would want him. All false rumors. I'm sure VT would have told Wojo no, since they got the guy they really wanted, and the idea that VT would have any interest in Wojo has to be complete baloney.
It could be that like the majority here and the MU administration, others see something in Wojo and what he has done to date and where the program is at... but wait, that doesn't fit the Wojo is so terrible no one would want him.
While I agree with the tone of your post, GOO, is there any reason why Stan couldn't get the exact kind of treatment Buzz got -- an actual contract with an actual commitment? He has been a valuable assistant at Marquette, and he has been a fine recruiter both here and at Arizona State. He has been around the block a few times. He's not a "kid."
Some Scoopers would applaud such a move, others would decry it as "proof" that we're a mid-major (even though many successful programs throughout history have elevated assistant coaches to the top job, including Michigan State with Izzo, Gonzaga with both Monson and Few, Marquette with Buzz, etc). I like to think that most would say, "Maybe this can work" and give Stan a real chance.
I have no idea if Stan can be a successful head coach, but I didn't know that about Buzz, either. Nobody did ... anybody who says he/she knew for sure that Buzz would be great is a liar. For that matter, nobody knew whether Al, K or Izzo would be a great head coach.
The only thing I know for certain is you don't give Stan the job on a 1-year trial basis. If you think he can successfully coach the team, you go all-in and give him a real contract. (As we all know, "real contracts" aren't really anyway, so if he ends up sucking big-time you don't have to keep him.) You make the program his so that current players and recruits know the score.
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wades
I try quite hard to add, IMO, I think or I believe in most of my posts. There likely are posts were that does not occur, but I simply am posting my opinion on the vast majority of my posts. As for my knowledge of ball, I will take my chances on discussing the glory days with most anyone, but do respect that others, like 4ever, know more than I do about the Al era. His experience, age and being at games I was not at, is far different experience than I have in regards to that area. When he posts, I respect that he likely knows more about that topic than I do.
As for knowledge of current college basketball, I am very far removed from the situation and readily accept there is plenty I do not know about current college ball and how it works today. That said, I believe that the lessons I have learned from really, really smart basketball people allows me to provide a different perspective than some on here. There was a time, that I did see how recruiting worked firsthand, I saw how coaches were courted and how that process worked, I saw how coaches chose to leave the program and other personal experiences that were/are part of how a program functions.
Not that you care, but I recently posted on Linkedin regarding my career and lessons learned along the way. The theme of the post, that sometimes your eyes do not lie, real life experiences matter and you can learn something every day if you chose to listen to others. In my chosen profession, I feel quite confident on my knowledge on a topics related to my career, but seldom does a week go by that I do not learn something new.
I am far from biggest MU fan on this board, far from most knowledgeable on current behind the scenes activities within the program, have little inside recruiting news to share, do not relate to all the computer data now used or really do not know if Wojo is the next Coach K. But I do know, that being around people that know the game very well has rubbed off on me to some degree. You can dismiss every post I make as me being a know it all and that is your choice. For the record, I will say that I likely have admitted being wrong more than most on here.
Here's to MU winning the next biggest game of the season!
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Goodman tweets that UCLA closing in on Mick Cronin
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UCLA just tweeted it out. I actually think they fell into the best candidate. He's still young, but with a ton of experience, and if he gets his guys to play hard he'll win a lot of games in that conference.
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UCLA just tweeted it out. I actually think they fell into the best candidate. He's still young, but with a ton of experience, and if he gets his guys to play hard he'll win a lot of games in that conference.
UCLA will certainly play more defense than in recent decades under Cronin.
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"Hey Mick......As you probably have seen our first 7 choices all turned us down.......do you still want the job? Ok....looks like you were our top choice all along.....Welcome aboard!"
"Oh and 1 more thing.....do you have a buyout and if so....will Cincinnati be willing to negotiate it?"
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"Hey Mick......As you probably have seen our first 7 choices all turned us down.......do you still want the job? Ok....looks like you were our top choice all along.....Welcome aboard!"
"Oh and 1 more thing.....do you have a buyout and if so....will Cincinnati be willing to negotiate it?"
He probably paid it himself to get out of the AAC.
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Jeff Borzello
Verified account
@jeffborzello
7m7 minutes ago
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Mick Cronin's UCLA contract is for six years and $24 million.
Was makiing 2.2 million at Cincy
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Any likely transfers out of Cinci worth looking into? Cumberland is only a JR right?
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UCLA will certainly play more defense than in recent decades under Cronin.
Howland had them playing a ton of defense, much to the chagrin of LA fan.
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Any likely transfers out of Cinci worth looking into? Cumberland is only a JR right?
He is such a stud...Yes, he's a junior. Would LOVE to have him, if he decided to transfer. Then again, so would 350 other programs.
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"Hey Mick......As you probably have seen our first 7 choices all turned us down.......do you still want the job? Ok....looks like you were our top choice all along.....Welcome aboard!"
"Oh and 1 more thing.....do you have a buyout and if so....will Cincinnati be willing to negotiate it?"
Pete Carrol at USC
Cronin has wanted out for some time.
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He probably paid it himself to get out of the AAC.
AAC is better than the Pac 12.
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AAC is better than the Pac 12.
Watching the Pac 12 just makes you a person say: "Aaak!"
Of course, if one smokes enough weed like Bill Walton, even the Pac 12 is tolerable.
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Didn't UCLA fans run Howland out of town because his team played a boring brand of basketball without a lot of offense? If so, yeesh on this hiring. Not sure why there's so much love for MC. The guy's teams are very good defensively but can never score the ball. He's made 1 Sweet 16 in his career and is 6-11 in the NCAA Tournament in his career.
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AAC is better than the Pac 12.
Yep...except for the cheerleaders.
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Didn't UCLA fans run Howland out of town because his team played a boring brand of basketball without a lot of offense? If so, yeesh on this hiring. Not sure why there's so much love for MC. The guy's teams are very good defensively but can never score the ball. He's made 1 Sweet 16 in his career and is 6-11 in the NCAA Tournament in his career.
They're not going to love Cronin's style, but it was a lot more than Howland's style that got him fired, namely:
- declining results. UCLA didn't make it out of the first weekend of the tourney in his last five seasons, and missed it altogether in his two of his last four.
- lost control of the program, highlighted by a big SI story about players fighting, partying way too much, etc.
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While I agree with the tone of your post, GOO, is there any reason why Stan couldn't get the exact kind of treatment Buzz got -- an actual contract with an actual commitment? He has been a valuable assistant at Marquette, and he has been a fine recruiter both here and at Arizona State. He has been around the block a few times. He's not a "kid."
Some Scoopers would applaud such a move, others would decry it as "proof" that we're a mid-major (even though many successful programs throughout history have elevated assistant coaches to the top job, including Michigan State with Izzo, Gonzaga with both Monson and Few, Marquette with Buzz, etc). I like to think that most would say, "Maybe this can work" and give Stan a real chance.
I have no idea if Stan can be a successful head coach, but I didn't know that about Buzz, either. Nobody did ... anybody who says he/she knew for sure that Buzz would be great is a liar. For that matter, nobody knew whether Al, K or Izzo would be a great head coach.
The only thing I know for certain is you don't give Stan the job on a 1-year trial basis. If you think he can successfully coach the team, you go all-in and give him a real contract. (As we all know, "real contracts" aren't really anyway, so if he ends up sucking big-time you don't have to keep him.) You make the program his so that current players and recruits know the score.
If we somehow lost Wojo, I'd hope that Stan would be at the top of the list of potential hires. My post was referencing a suggestion made by another poster, including the one year trial, etc, which is obviously a less than solid idea. You either hire the guy and make a commitment or you don't. Anything else would kill recruiting and player retention and alienate the hire at the outset. Unless we want a complete rebuild. I didn't want to call out the poster that made that suggestion by name.
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AAC is better than the Pac 12.
I don’t know. The new TV deal doesn’t seem to be good for AAC. I don’t think Cronin was in love with the conference and was looking to get out.
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I don’t know. The new TV deal doesn’t seem to be good for AAC. I don’t think Cronin was in love with the conference and was looking to get out.
I'm speaking only to the quality of the teams/competition currently. Obviously there's way more upside in the Pac 12, and Westwood > Cincinnati (and $4 million > $2.2 million).
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They're not going to love Cronin's style, but it was a lot more than Howland's style that got him fired, namely:
- declining results. UCLA didn't make it out of the first weekend of the tourney in his last five seasons, and missed it altogether in his two of his last four.
- lost control of the program, highlighted by a big SI story about players fighting, partying way too much, etc.
This is all true, but I'd guess if Ben Howland's teams played the sort of style UNC, Duke, or Kansas play, he'd still be there today.
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This is all true, but I'd guess if Ben Howland's teams played the sort of style UNC, Duke, or Kansas play, he'd still be there today.
If by that you mean "winning and frequent deep tourney runs" I'd agree.
But a flashier style with the same results - i.e. zero Sweet 16s, one conference title in five seasons - wasn't going to save Ben in LA.
Alford's teams were more up-tempo, and his first five seasons at UCLA were better than Howland's last five, and that got him fired.
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This is all true, but I'd guess if Ben Howland's teams played the sort of style UNC, Duke, or Kansas play, he'd still be there today.
maybe, but there was something more that happened in regards to the Josh Smith situation. It's also what made him rather unattractive to others jobs he threw himself at, including MU.
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If by that you mean "winning and frequent deep tourney runs" I'd agree.
But a flashier style with the same results - i.e. zero Sweet 16s, one conference title in five seasons - wasn't going to save Ben in LA.
Alford's teams were more up-tempo, and his first five seasons at UCLA were better than Howland's last five, and that got him fired.
The difference is Howland's success at UCLA. He had the success, but not the style. Alford had the style but not the success. If Howland had his track record and teams that were "fun" to watch, I think the 3 Final Fours would've saved him.
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Yep...except for the cheerleaders.
The Sun Dolls/Guys aren't getting any love?
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Like a bad penny ....
Evan Daniels @EvanDaniels
Sources: Steve Alford is the frontrunner for the Nevada head coaching vacancy | Story: 247sports.com/college/basket…
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Like a bad penny ....
Evan Daniels @EvanDaniels
Sources: Steve Alford is the frontrunner for the Nevada head coaching vacancy | Story: 247sports.com/college/basket…
That’s the proper level for him, much like New Mexico.
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Like a bad penny ....
Evan Daniels @EvanDaniels
Sources: Steve Alford is the frontrunner for the Nevada head coaching vacancy | Story: 247sports.com/college/basket…
Alford has more lives than the dismembered knight in The Holy Grail.
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Have to love the headline when you click on this one.
http://nevadasportsnet.com/news/reporters/nevada-basketball-attempting-to-finalize-deal-with-steve-alford
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Alford has more lives than the dismembered knight in The Holy Grail.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/1xP5YVtnldrgGTP6hG/giphy.gif)
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Knot four sure on dis, butt I'm figurin' $4 mil in LA duzzant have nearly da purchasin' power dat $2.2 mil has in Cincinnati. Maybe Cheeks can verify, hey?
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Knot four sure on dis, butt I'm figurin' $4 mil in LA duzzant have nearly da purchasin' power dat $2.2 mil has in Cincinnati. Maybe Cheeks can verify, hey?
Highest total taxes in USA....Cost of living insane....I’m guessing he comes out slightly behind, but not by a ton. At least he has much better weather, but much worse traffic.
One site I went to this morning shows $2.2M in Cincinnati would require $4.4M in Brentwood.
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Highest total taxes in USA....Cost of living insane....I’m guessing he comes out slightly behind, but not by a ton. At least he has much better weather, but much worse traffic.
One site I went to this morning shows $2.2M in Cincinnati would require $4.4M in Brentwood.
makes ya wonder, who ya workin for??
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10 years for Alford at nevada wow
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10 years for Alford at nevada wow
509 Career Wins gets you a 10 year deal. Good deal for both parties. Hope he can sign up Haanif.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.si.com/college-basketball/2019/04/10/steve-alford-nevada-former-ucla-head-coach-eric-musselman-replacement
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I’d rather live in Reno than Los Angeles anyway.
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509 Career Wins gets you a 10 year deal. Good deal for both parties. Hope he can sign up Haanif.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.si.com/college-basketball/2019/04/10/steve-alford-nevada-former-ucla-head-coach-eric-musselman-replacement
Alford is pure scum. The crap he pulled at Iowa re: Pierre Pierce should have been disqualifying a decade plus ago. I hope Nevada and Alford reap what they sow. Oh, and it's debatable whether he can even coach anymore - he's done pretty much nothing but underachieve.
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Alford is pure scum. The crap he pulled at Iowa re: Pierre Pierce should have been disqualifying a decade plus ago. I hope Nevada and Alford reap what they sow. Oh, and it's debatable whether he can even coach anymore - he's done pretty much nothing but underachieve.
I agree with this analysis
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Reportedly Porter Moser & Ryan Odom are also in the mix at St John's. Moser would really make me laugh.
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Doc Sadler left his head coaching gig at Southern Miss to become an assistant at Nebraska - a place that fired him as head coach less than a decade ago.
Nebraska is really shelling out the resources for Hoiberg. Not only Sadler, but Matt Abdelmassih from St. Johns, and Bobby Lutz as a "special assistant."
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Reportedly Porter Moser & Ryan Odom are also in the mix at St John's. Moser would really make me laugh.
Ol' "One Season Moser," he's known as.
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Ol' "One Season Moser," he's known as.
Really? A full season.
Unlike Three Hump Chump Rick? Master of the Three Stroke Poke!
A full season, huh?
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Ol' "One Season Moser," he's known as.
He should've jumped last year at any job he could get. Yes, LUC was great. 32-6, Final Four, 15-3 in league. It was Moser's 11th year in the MVC with two different schools. In the previous 10 seasons, he had losing conference records 10 times. Dude caught lightning in a bottle. And with Custer & Townes leaving, he's down to the last few drops of spark. Better get while the getting's good.
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Really? A full season.
Unlike Three Hump Chump Rick? Master of the Three Stroke Poke!
A full season, huh?
Should call his doctor immediately, aina?
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He should've jumped last year at any job he could get. Yes, LUC was great. 32-6, Final Four, 15-3 in league. It was Moser's 11th year in the MVC with two different schools. In the previous 10 seasons, he had losing conference records 10 times. Dude caught lightning in a bottle. And with Custer & Townes leaving, he's down to the last few drops of spark. Better get while the getting's good.
Yep. I said it at the time, and I wasn't the only one. He shoulda parlayed that into something, because he'll probably never get another chance.
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Reportedly Porter Moser & Ryan Odom are also in the mix at St John's. Moser would really make me laugh.
I’ve seen nothing tying Moser to SJU.
I’ve been involved in coaching searches. I have been amused when print media and social media name a coach had being a candidate, interviewed or even offered when that never happened and that person wasn’t actually under consideration.
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Porter just bought Tom Ricketts's house so I don't think he is hurting.
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I’ve seen nothing tying Moser to SJU.
I’ve been involved in coaching searches. I have been amused when print media and social media name a coach had being a candidate, interviewed or even offered when that never happened and that person wasn’t actually under consideration.
Adam Zagoria tweeted it out. He's pretty well established & tied in among northeast college basketball programs.
Zach Braziller also reported the same, he covers NYC college basketball.
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I can see Porter going to Creighton if Daddy McBuckets gets FBIed
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Porter just bought Tom Ricketts's house so I don't think he is hurting.
Yeah. The guy could never make another NCAA Tournament and he'll have a job at LUC for as long as he wants. I can understand why he wouldn't jump to a high major program where expectations are higher than what the program is actually able to achieve.
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Adam Zagoria tweeted it out. He's pretty well established & tied in among northeast college basketball programs.
Zach Braziller also reported the same, he covers NYC college basketball.
“According to a source.” I had one coach friend who was reported to be a finalist for a job (including by Zagoria). He wasn’t, not even a place he had interest in, didn’t interview. His agent laughed when I brought it up and admitted to being the “source” to get his client a raise. One search I was out the school’s best reporter assumed it was a high profile individual and reported them as a candidate when it was actually someone else with the same first name.
It seems it will be Cluess or someone with Duke ties. The next coach there has to have connections in NYC. That isn’t Moser.
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“According to a source.” I had one coach friend who was reported to be a finalist for a job (including by Zagoria). He wasn’t, not even a place he had interest in, didn’t interview. His agent laughed when I brought it up and admitted to being the “source” to get his client a raise. One search I was out the school’s best reporter assumed it was a high profile individual and reported them as a candidate when it was actually someone else with the same first name.
It seems it will be Cluess or someone with Duke ties. The next coach there has to have connections in NYC. That isn’t Moser.
Was it Tom crean ?
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“According to a source.” I had one coach friend who was reported to be a finalist for a job (including by Zagoria). He wasn’t, not even a place he had interest in, didn’t interview. His agent laughed when I brought it up and admitted to being the “source” to get his client a raise. One search I was out the school’s best reporter assumed it was a high profile individual and reported them as a candidate when it was actually someone else with the same first name.
It seems it will be Cluess or someone with Duke ties. The next coach there has to have connections in NYC. That isn’t Moser.
Well, if a coach's agent tells a reporter they're interviewing for/interested in a specific job, I'd say it's pretty fair for the reporter to...report that.
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“According to a source.” I had one coach friend who was reported to be a finalist for a job (including by Zagoria). He wasn’t, not even a place he had interest in, didn’t interview. His agent laughed when I brought it up and admitted to being the “source” to get his client a raise. One search I was out the school’s best reporter assumed it was a high profile individual and reported them as a candidate when it was actually someone else with the same first name.
It seems it will be Cluess or someone with Duke ties. The next coach there has to have connections in NYC. That isn’t Moser.
Wow, you have friends who are college coaches, and you’ve even been a part of coaching searches?! As Al Pacino’s character Rick Roma from Glengarry Glen Ross might’ve said, “Ohhh, what a cool guy you are!”
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“According to a source.” I had one coach friend who was reported to be a finalist for a job (including by Zagoria). He wasn’t, not even a place he had interest in, didn’t interview. His agent laughed when I brought it up and admitted to being the “source” to get his client a raise. One search I was out the school’s best reporter assumed it was a high profile individual and reported them as a candidate when it was actually someone else with the same first name.
It seems it will be Cluess or someone with Duke ties. The next coach there has to have connections in NYC. That isn’t Moser.
Are you involved with the St. John's coaching search?
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Wow, you have friends who are college coaches, and you’ve even been a part of coaching searches?! As Al Pacino’s character Rick Roma from Glengarry Glen Ross might’ve said, “Ohhh, what a cool guy you are!”
Instead of acting that way, maybe we could all be nice and perhaps learn a thing or two from his experiences. I'm guessing 99.999% of people here have never taken part in a NCAA Div I coaching search. But whatever...
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Instead of acting that way, maybe we could all be nice and perhaps learn a thing or two from his experiences. I'm guessing 99.999% of people here have never taken part in a NCAA Div I coaching search. But whatever...
Only cheeks and Billy hoyle have though, aina?
Lemme guess....warrior dad is a sports agent in real life?
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Only cheeks and Billy hoyle have though, aina?
Lemme guess....warrior dad is a sports agent in real life?
Sigh. Suit yourself.
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/eH3Frub00MjP6rVTNJ/giphy.gif)
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Yeah. The guy could never make another NCAA Tournament and he'll have a job at LUC for as long as he wants. I can understand why he wouldn't jump to a high major program where expectations are higher than what the program is actually able to achieve.
This is a great point, and it's why with Moser (and a few others), I try to remember to qualify it by saying, "After the FF, he should have gone for any big-time job if that's what he wants."
Plenty of coaches are satisfied with where they are, and that doesn't mean they lack fire or competitiveness.
I think of Bob McKillop at Davidson. He had many opportunities to go elsewhere but he loves Davidson, he can win there, he has more money than he'll ever need, and the most pressure he faces is the pressure he puts on himself. It doesn't mean he's not highly competitive, or that he doesn't desperately want to win. It means he doesn't feel he has to chase some job that others perceive as the holy grail.
Mark Few is another. John Gagliardi, the old football coach at St. John's in Minnesota, was another. Plenty of other examples.
The coach of the HS team where I am an assistant is outstanding -- young, dynamic, astute, good with people, runs incredibly efficient practices, excellent X's and O's, etc -- and I am 100% certain he could be a college coach. But he loves teaching and coaching at the high school level, his wife is a teacher at the school, they live 5 minutes away. He's one of the most competitive individuals I've ever met, but he's content doing what he does.
Maybe Moser really loves it at Loyola and aspires only to do as well as he possibly can there without dreaming of going elsewhere. Only he and his circle of family/friends knows.
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To those who don't think losing a coach is a huge deal, just look at Virginia Tech.
- They graduate 3 starters.
- 3 holdovers decide to transfer.
- 3 out of 4 recruits (2 following Buzz) opt out and there's a very good chance their final signee asks for his release.
- It gets worse if they lose their top scorer to the NBA draft.
- As a bonus, top Canadian 2019 recruit Cassius McNielly, thought to be leaning to Tech, committed to Texas A&M where he'll be reunited with his uncle Jamie.
- Now, what does their big man and second leading scorer do?
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To those who don't think losing a coach is a huge deal, just look at Virginia Tech.
- They graduate 3 starters.
- 3 holdovers decide to transfer.
- 3 out of 4 recruits (2 following Buzz) opt out and there's a very good chance their final signee asks for his release.
- It gets worse if they lose their top scorer to the NBA draft.
- As a bonus, top Canadian 2019 recruit Cassius McNielly, thought to be leaning to Tech, committed to Texas A&M where he'll be reunited with his uncle Jamie.
- Now, what does their big man and second leading scorer do?
However, on the flip side of that Ted, all of Alabama's key players had entered the transfer portal after Avery Johnson was let go...then they hired Nate Oates, and one by one they all decided to come back. That's what I think people don't get...just because a Coach leaves/gets fired it does NOT automatically mean massive overhaul...it all depends on the Coach you bring in...and for continuities sake it doesn't always have to be an assistant getting hired...Alabama is a perfect example of that, but not the only one through the years either.
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However, on the flip side of that Ted, all of Alabama's key players had entered the transfer portal after Avery Johnson was let go...then they hired Nate Oates, and one by one they all decided to come back. That's what I think people don't get...just because a Coach leaves/gets fired it does NOT automatically mean massive overhaul...it all depends on the Coach you bring in...and for continuities sake it doesn't always have to be an assistant getting hired...Alabama is a perfect example of that, but not the only one through the years either.
Yeah for some reason this only happens to Buzz.
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However, on the flip side of that Ted, all of Alabama's key players had entered the transfer portal after Avery Johnson was let go...then they hired Nate Oates, and one by one they all decided to come back. That's what I think people don't get...just because a Coach leaves/gets fired it does NOT automatically mean massive overhaul...it all depends on the Coach you bring in...and for continuities sake it doesn't always have to be an assistant getting hired...Alabama is a perfect example of that, but not the only one through the years either.
Of the five Alabama players who entered the transfer portal, only two have withdrawn and are returning to Bama. Another player declared for the draft and may or may not return.
But don't let facts get in the way.
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However, on the flip side of that Ted, all of Alabama's key players had entered the transfer portal after Avery Johnson was let go...then they hired Nate Oates, and one by one they all decided to come back. That's what I think people don't get...just because a Coach leaves/gets fired it does NOT automatically mean massive overhaul...it all depends on the Coach you bring in...and for continuities sake it doesn't always have to be an assistant getting hired...Alabama is a perfect example of that, but not the only one through the years either.
False
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Crash...I got him Final Four tix in New Orleans, not Disneyland tix. Otherwise nicely done, I laughed.
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Of the five Alabama players who entered the transfer portal, only two have withdrawn and are returning to Bama. Another player declared for the draft and may or may not return.
But don't let facts get in the way.
And...here's another effect of bringing in the right Coach...great transfers want to play for you...
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1117422848027648000
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False
Get your best players to re commit(like Oats has), and then get transfers that are better then any players you might lose(which Bolden is) and what have you lost?? Nothing, you have probably improved. Again, this "fallacy" that you lose everyone when a Coach leaves and you will have a total rebuild is 100% absolutely, patently false. It all depends on the Coach you bring in. Keep the right guys, replace the ones that do choose to leave with at worst the same( a lot of times better), and you go. It's been proven many times, it can and does happen. Just tired of the narrative that people here think it means "automatic rebuild". That's total horsecrap.
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And...here's another effect of bringing in the right Coach...great transfers want to play for you...
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1117422848027648000
If only Marquette could land any decent transfers.
And, no, Bolden is not a great transfer by any stretch of the imagination.
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Get your best players to re commit(like Oats has), and then get transfers that are better then any players you might lose(which Bolden is) and what have you lost?? Nothing, you have probably improved. Again, this "fallacy" that you lose everyone when a Coach leaves and you will have a total rebuild is 100% absolutely, patently false. It all depends on the Coach you bring in. Keep the right guys, replace the ones that do choose to leave with at worst the same( a lot of times better), and you go. It's been proven many times, it can and does happen. Just tired of the narrative that people here think it means "automatic rebuild". That's total horsecrap.
Sure, is it possible it doesn’t happen...yes. What happened when Crean left as an example right here close to home...did we keep Tyshawn Taylor? Nope. When Buzz left, did we keep all his recruits? Nope.
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My Moser two cents:
He doesn’t like the travel part of the small towns of the MVC. He and his family have liked living in Wilmette in Chicago. (being from the area, Naperville) He would have taken the SLU position if offered back in the day. He wasn’t. Porter did much of the heavy lifting with recruiting for Majerus at SLU. Once he identified recruits, he’d bring Rick along to close the deal. He was the nice guy, positive, energetic guy, while Rick spent an hour and a half in practice getting a defender to point his toe in a precise manner, in slow methodical fashion. He was good as an assistant there. His original connection to Majerus was Tony Barone. Porter’s had 4 of 5 winning seasons at Loyola, one dream season, in 16 overall. He’d be a nice assistant on a high major staff, or doing what he is doing now. His contract runs six more seasons at seven figures. Moser is a fall back candidate at St. John’s. A top choice? No. Fall back long shot possibility? Yes. He’s one of the good guys out there so I wish him well. Maybe he can get another run where he is.
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If only Marquette could land any decent transfers.
And, no, Bolden is not a great transfer by any stretch of the imagination.
Do you pay attention to college basketball?? Bolden isn't a great transfer?? He is VERY VERY good.
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Do you pay attention to college basketball?? Bolden isn't a great transfer?? He is VERY VERY good.
He quit on his team before the season was over, many fans saying he sulked most of the year. Maybe he needed a change of scenery, but let’s not anoint him just yet.
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If only Marquette could land any decent transfers.
And, no, Bolden is not a great transfer by any stretch of the imagination.
Yes he is
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He quit on his team before the season was over, many fans saying he sulked most of the year. Maybe he needed a change of scenery, but let’s not anoint him just yet.
I wouldn't call being injured "quitting on his team".
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I wouldn't call being injured "quitting on his team".
+1000...the kid was injured at the end of January and never played another game after that. That isn't quitting.
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In this case, Guru is right. A coach leaving doesn't have to mean a rebuild. It often means a rebuild but not always. That being said, Oats retaining his best players and getting a solid grad transfer doesn't mean he'll be successful. His predecessor had a similar arrival to Tuscaloosa but was still fired three seasons later.
And again, it doesn't matter because there was 0% Wojo was going to be fired. Suggesting that Marquette should fire him after last season was not even close to realistic.
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I wouldn't call being injured "quitting on his team".
He quit the team March 7th, when the season was still going on. Had traveled previously, did not make the trip to Iowa State. I would call that quitting on the team. He could have waited until the season was over.
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In this case, Guru is right. A coach leaving doesn't have to mean a rebuild. It often means a rebuild but not always. That being said, Oats retaining his best players and getting a solid grad transfer doesn't mean he'll be successful. His predecessor had a similar arrival to Tuscaloosa but was still fired three seasons later.
And again, it doesn't matter because there was 0% Wojo was going to be fired. Suggesting that Marquette should fire him after last season was not even close to realistic.
Sure, anything is possible...but as has been shown the last two times MU hires a coach, we lost key members of the recruiting class.
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Yes he is
Part-time starter on a 15-21 team.
.349 shooter from 3.
2.5/2.1 assist to turnover ratio as a point guard.
.497 eFG
Perhaps we define "great" differently?
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Part-time starter on a 15-21 team.
.349 shooter from 3.
2.5/2.1 assist to turnover ratio as a point guard.
.497 eFG
Perhaps we define "great" differently?
I think you have too high of expectations for grad transfers. Top 5 grad transfer so far this season
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In this case, Guru is right. A coach leaving doesn't have to mean a rebuild. It often means a rebuild but not always. That being said, Oats retaining his best players and getting a solid grad transfer doesn't mean he'll be successful. His predecessor had a similar arrival to Tuscaloosa but was still fired three seasons later.
And again, it doesn't matter because there was 0% Wojo was going to be fired. Suggesting that Marquette should fire him after last season was not even close to realistic.
That basically describes Wojo's arrival. Kept everyone who was eligible to return, kept Sandy, landed Carlino, still had the worst season in a long time at Marquette. Followed that up with a banner recruiting class that ended up with the top recruit leaving for the NBA after one year, the other two freshman year starters transferring out, and the other two playing supporting roles to a less heralded class the next year.
You never know how early returns will go, but it's definitely more about how you sustain than how you start.
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I think you have too high of expectations for grad transfers. Top 5 grad transfer so far this season
So he's great because it's a weak class of grad transfers?
I mean, OK. I was just judging by the actual merits of the player.
Anyhow, he's a 6 foot combo guard who's not a particular good shooter or distributor.
And likely was out of a starting job had he returned to WVU.
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This is a great point, and it's why with Moser (and a few others), I try to remember to qualify it by saying, "After the FF, he should have gone for any big-time job if that's what he wants."
Plenty of coaches are satisfied with where they are, and that doesn't mean they lack fire or competitiveness.
I think of Bob McKillop at Davidson. He had many opportunities to go elsewhere but he loves Davidson, he can win there, he has more money than he'll ever need, and the most pressure he faces is the pressure he puts on himself. It doesn't mean he's not highly competitive, or that he doesn't desperately want to win. It means he doesn't feel he has to chase some job that others perceive as the holy grail.
Mark Few is another. John Gagliardi, the old football coach at St. John's in Minnesota, was another. Plenty of other examples.
The coach of the HS team where I am an assistant is outstanding -- young, dynamic, astute, good with people, runs incredibly efficient practices, excellent X's and O's, etc -- and I am 100% certain he could be a college coach. But he loves teaching and coaching at the high school level, his wife is a teacher at the school, they live 5 minutes away. He's one of the most competitive individuals I've ever met, but he's content doing what he does.
Maybe Moser really loves it at Loyola and aspires only to do as well as he possibly can there without dreaming of going elsewhere. Only he and his circle of family/friends knows.
The best example of blooming where you are planted is Morgan Wootten. He was the high school coach at a rival of ours, DeMatha Catholic. Wootten was the National Prep Coach of the 20th Century and was inducted into the Naismith Hall of Fame.
Wooden called him not the finest high school coach ever but the best at any level.
Wootten was approached numerous times for jobs at high majors but he always turned them down. I am not talking about the Shippensburgs either. NC State, Georgetown, Duke, Maryland.
Class guy who loved what he did where he was at. I hate to say it but in my many years at Georgetown Prep (an "elite east coast prep school" according to Diane Feinstein) not once did we come close to beating him. And we were good.
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The best example of blooming where you are planted is Morgan Wootten. He was the high school coach at a rival of ours, DeMatha Catholic. Wootten was the National Prep Coach of the 20th Century and was inducted into the Naismith Hall of Fame.
Wooden called him not the finest high school coach ever but the best at any level.
Wootten was approached numerous times for jobs at high majors but he always turned them down. I am not talking about the Shippensburgs either. NC State, Georgetown, Duke, Maryland.
Class guy who loved what he did where he was at. I hate to say it but in my many years at Georgetown Prep (an "elite east coast prep school" according to Diane Feinstein) not once did we come close to beating him. And we were good.
Just a slight correction. You are right that he turned down multiple jobs, but he never turned down Maryland. That's the only place he wanted to coach but was never offered the job.
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Are you involved with the St. John's coaching search?
I am not, but some friends are.
My point was “sources” aren’t always accurate, and often that’s intentional.
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I am not, but some friends are.
My point was “sources” aren’t always accurate, and often that’s intentional.
Sometimes they aren't. Sometimes they are. But talking about what's being reported is kind of what we do here. That and say ND sucks.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/GoBearcatsMBB/status/1117506041351159809
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So he's great because it's a weak class of grad transfers?
I mean, OK. I was just judging by the actual merits of the player.
Anyhow, he's a 6 foot combo guard who's not a particular good shooter or distributor.
And likely was out of a starting job had he returned to WVU.
Well I call top 5 of a group of 200+ great. Oates can only get the grad transfers available now and he got one of the best.
Plus, its not a weak class of grad transfers. The reality is if you are a starter for a great team, you probably aren't grad transferring. So the best of the grad transfer group are usually bench players from great teams, and starters from not so great teams like Beetle Bolden.
I think you are also underestimating Beetle a bit. Kid can score quick, fast, and in a hurry. Leading scorer on the team despite only 21 minutes a game. Other than a clunker against Kansas State, he was putting up better numbers against Big 12 competition than he was in the non-conference. He was held back by poor teammates.
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And again, it doesn't matter because there was 0% Wojo was going to be fired.
This, this, 1000 times this.
We have had dozens of threads started in which all the arguing took place on a hypothetical situation that had 0.00% chance of happening.
If one also includes Wojo deciding to leave, maybe it skyrocketed all the way up to a 5% possibility.
We might as well be arguing about, "What if Sacar sprouts a second nose"?
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https://mobile.twitter.com/sltrib/status/1117482834325852166
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We might as well be arguing about, "What if Sacar sprouts a second nose"?
What if... he can smell crime
He NOSE the truth!
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I am not, but some friends are.
My point was “sources” aren’t always accurate, and often that’s intentional.
Ok
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Will Wade was reinstated by LSU.
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Will Wade was reinstated by LSU.
Haha awesome. Arizona, LSU, Auburn, etc. just making a complete mockery of the NCAA and daring them to act, knowing they won’t.
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The best example of blooming where you are planted is Morgan Wootten. He was the high school coach at a rival of ours, DeMatha Catholic. Wootten was the National Prep Coach of the 20th Century and was inducted into the Naismith Hall of Fame.
Wooden called him not the finest high school coach ever but the best at any level.
Wootten was approached numerous times for jobs at high majors but he always turned them down. I am not talking about the Shippensburgs either. NC State, Georgetown, Duke, Maryland.
Class guy who loved what he did where he was at. I hate to say it but in my many years at Georgetown Prep (an "elite east coast prep school" according to Diane Feinstein) not once did we come close to beating him. And we were good.
Morgan Wootten ... great call, Crash. Loved his job; it was all he needed to stoke his competitive fires and to give him a rewarding career.
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Haha awesome. Arizona, LSU, Auburn, etc. just making a complete mockery of the NCAA and daring them to act, knowing they won’t.
At this point I don't see it as Mockery, it's the way of doing business and keeping the Golden Goose healthy. It is very advantageous to have a faceless NCAA therefore no individual does the heavy lifting.
ous
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Haha awesome. Arizona, LSU, Auburn, etc. just making a complete mockery of the NCAA and daring them to act, knowing they won’t.
They actually want to but the FBI is refusing to turn over the docs despite multiple requests from the newly revamped and expanded Basketball Enforcement Group. When the entire investigation is over they can get the documents but for now, as long as it's ongoing, the FBI is refusing to turn them over or allow the NCAA to intervene.
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Just a slight correction. You are right that he turned down multiple jobs, but he never turned down Maryland. That's the only place he wanted to coach but was never offered the job.
There is actually more to the story about Maryland.
After Bias died of a coke overdose right after being drafted by the Celtics Maryland forced Lefty out. One of their first calls was to Wootten. Maryland was a mess after Bias' death when stories of athletes never setting foot in a classroom, etc... triggered a wholesale purge of the program.
Maryland hired the Dunbar coach, Bob Wade, to replace Lefty. Dunbar was an inner city school that was a national powerhouse. He had a reputation for being a tough coach and disciplinarian who insisted on accountability.
What's funny is that Wade only lasted a few years and was guilty of numerous NCAA violations. Maryland got hit with a slew of penalties because of Wade's personal behavior.
What isn't clear is if Maryland offered Wootten first. Some say that he was but the absolute truth is still not known. John Feinstein of the Post is one of those who wrote that Wootten was offered.
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Coincidence?
Jon Rothstein
@JonRothstein
Kansas AD Larry Keating is retiring, per release.
9:11 AM - 15 Apr 2019
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Coincidence?
Jon Rothstein
@JonRothstein
Kansas AD Larry Keating is retiring, per release.
9:11 AM - 15 Apr 2019
Considering Jeff Long has been their AD for the last year or so, I'm not sure what Rothstein is talking about.
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Coincidence?
Jon Rothstein
@JonRothstein
Kansas AD Larry Keating is retiring, per release.
9:11 AM - 15 Apr 2019
Special Assistant to the Athletic Director. He did the scheduling for Men's Basketball.
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Reportedly Porter Moser & Ryan Odom are also in the mix at St John's. Moser would really make me laugh.
So either people are doubling down on bad sources, or St John's has really offered the job to Porter Moser.
https://nypost.com/2019/04/15/st-johns-coaching-search-porter-moser-lands-surprise-offer/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Adam Zagoria and Andrew Slater (from The Athletic) reporting the same. But hey, maybe he didn't even interview, his agent is laughing, and he's not the guy. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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So either people are doubling down on bad sources, or St John's has really offered the job to Porter Moser.
https://nypost.com/2019/04/15/st-johns-coaching-search-porter-moser-lands-surprise-offer/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Adam Zagoria and Andrew Slater (from The Athletic) reporting the same. But hey, maybe he didn't even interview, his agent is laughing, and he's not the guy. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This is a weird situation. He was never on the Athletic Director's (Mike Cragg) radar, it was the General Counsel, who was the interim AD, who pulled the trigger here. Why did SJU hire a new AD if they were going to let the interim guy usurp him and conduct his own, independent search?
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Special Assistant to the Athletic Director. He did the scheduling for Men's Basketball.
Thanks for the clarification, do you have any ties to the KU athletic department?
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Thanks for the clarification, do you have any ties to the KU athletic department?
No, I do not. I'm on a listserv that has links to NCAA related articles, including transactions. That's where I got the info.
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Adrian Wojnarowski
Verified account
@wojespn
Following Following @wojespn
More
Loyola-Chicago coach Porter Moser has turned down a St. John's offer, sources tell ESPN. Moser will remain with the Ramblers.
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SJU still without a coach. Getting turned down by mid major coaches. Careful what you wish for.
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Adrian Wojnarowski
Verified account
@wojespn
Following Following @wojespn
More
Loyola-Chicago coach Porter Moser has turned down a St. John's offer, sources tell ESPN. Moser will remain with the Ramblers.
Good gravy. Everyone constantly champing at the bit to fire coaches needs to take a look at these searches this offseason.
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Wojo to da Johnnies, hey?
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Adrian Wojnarowski
Verified account
@wojespn
Following Following @wojespn
More
Loyola-Chicago coach Porter Moser has turned down a St. John's offer, sources tell ESPN. Moser will remain with the Ramblers.
St John's might be dodging a bullet, but that's not a good look.
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SJU still without a coach. Getting turned down by mid major coaches. Careful what you wish for.
Does Larry Brown need a Job.
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SJU still without a coach. Getting turned down by mid major coaches. Careful what you wish for.
it was best that they moved on from Mullin. He wasn't fully invested in the job, particularly after his family moved back west.
What they do next is going to be interesting considering the General Counsel usurped the AD to go after and offer Moser, a coach with no ties to NYC or the East Coast. Could there be an internal war brewing in Queens?
By the way, how is Tennessee feeling today after Barnes came out and said he would have gone to UCLA if they'd paid his buyout?
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By the way, how is Tennessee feeling today after Barnes came out and said he would have gone to UCLA if they'd paid his buyout?
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26538172/ucla-paid-buyout-left
Barnes said he lost weight as he pondered his options. He also said he believed the breakdown of the buyout talks was a sign from God.
You have got to be sh*tting me.
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Does Larry Brown need a Job.
Always. Even when he's not available, he's available.
Brown and Pitino are both available, and Pitino said he wanted the St. John's job. They should go for it. It would be fun!
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SJU still without a coach. Getting turned down by mid major coaches. Careful what you wish for.
Again, how horrible of a job do you think MU is?? SJU is a TERRIBLE job, that's why no one wants it. MU would do FAR better then all these small time names that have been floating around for jobs this year.
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Again, how horrible of a job do you think MU is?? SJU is a TERRIBLE job, that's why no one wants it. MU would do FAR better then all these small time names that have been floating around for jobs this year.
What names would be interested in Marquette that are better than the names being floated out here this year? I’m curious
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Barnes said he lost weight as he pondered his options.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26538172/ucla-paid-buyout-left
You have got to be sh*tting me.
So that's what I need to do to drop some pounds. Thanks, Coach Barnes.
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What names would be interested in Marquette that are better than the names being floated out here this year? I’m curious
Marquette beats St Johns in facilities, recent history, resources, and salary (HC and assistants). Id argue arena as well, but you can make the argument for MSG.
Not saying that Marquette would get Gregg Marshall or Tony Bennett, but to say Marquette would only attract the caliber of coaches that SJU would get just isn't true.
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Marquette beats St Johns in facilities, recent history, resources, and salary (HC and assistants). Id argue arena as well, but you can make the argument for MSG.
Not saying that Marquette would get Gregg Marshall or Tony Bennett, but to say Marquette would only attract the caliber of coaches that SJU would get just isn't true.
Fair enough.
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Not saying that Marquette would get Gregg Marshall or Tony Bennett, but to say Marquette would only attract the caliber of coaches that SJU would get just isn't true.
I agree that MU is a significantly better job than SJU. But I’m not sure I agree that MU would have attracted a proportionately better candidate than SJU - and that’s not just based on timing, it’s more a matter of supply.
Look at all the hires that were made this cycle. Where would an MU hire likely slot in? I think the best case scenario would have been a mid major coach with significant experience like Musselman or maybe Oats. With all the competition though, there’s a really good chance they’d miss on Oats who was the only slam dunk mid major hire in that category IMHO. Even if MU had moved on right after the tournament, I think there’s a greater than 50% chance that search ends with Wardle.
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St. John's is having a tumultuous search, to say the least. Mike Repole just gave a pretty damning interview about the process. It sounds like they are pivoting towards Ryan Odom, James Jones and/or Frank Haith. Haith would be an awful hire.
Sounds like there is much disagreement between leadership at the school, administration and the athletic department.
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St. John's is having a tumultuous search, to say the least. Mike Repole just gave a pretty damning interview about the process. It sounds like they are pivoting towards Ryan Odom, James Jones and/or Frank Haith. Haith would be an awful hire.
Sounds like there is much disagreement between leadership at the school, administration and the athletic department.
Repole doesn’t have a Derby horse this year. Of course he’s throwing his weight around a coaching search. Yawn.
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St. John's is having a tumultuous search, to say the least. Mike Repole just gave a pretty damning interview about the process. It sounds like they are pivoting towards Ryan Odom, James Jones and/or Frank Haith. Haith would be an awful hire.
Sounds like there is much disagreement between leadership at the school, administration and the athletic department.
https://nypost.com/2019/04/17/st-johns-booster-mike-repole-goes-scorched-earth-national-embarrassment/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons
https://omny.fm/shows/mike-francesa/mike-francesa-with-mike-repole
Damn. I knew the President and GC were too involved and undermining the AD they just brought in, but to piss off your biggest donor too? Not a good look.
Good perspective for people here who believe the sky is falling because two players are transferring.
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https://nypost.com/2019/04/17/st-johns-booster-mike-repole-goes-scorched-earth-national-embarrassment/?utm_source=twitter_sitebuttons&utm_medium=site%20buttons&utm_campaign=site%20buttons
Damn. I knew the President and GC were too involved and undermining the AD they just brought in, but to piss off your biggest donor too? Not a good look.
Hmmm...sounds familiar.
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LSU just hired Texas A&M’s AD to be their new AD. Buzz loses his AD 3 weeks into the job. Looks like it’s time for A&M to give ole Larry Williams a call.
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LSU just hired Texas A&M’s AD to be their new AD. Buzz loses his AD 3 weeks into the job. Looks like it’s time for A&M to give ole Larry Williams a call.
That is ironic to say the least. But Buzz didn't go to A&M because of the AD (the same cannot be said about his move to VT).
Knowing him, it probably triggered a bonus clause of his in some form. That or additional years added to his deal.
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That is ironic to say the least. But Buzz didn't go to A&M because of the AD (the same cannot be said about his move to VT).
Knowing him, it probably triggered a bonus clause of his in some form. That or additional years added to his deal.
I suspect that Buzz just ran him off already. Wanted to establish who was really in charge of the athletic department. (Sorry Jimbo)
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Repole doesn’t have a Derby horse this year. Of course he’s throwing his weight around a coaching search. Yawn.
There are people on Scoop who claim alienating Dick Strong led to where we are today. Surely it's not a "yawn" when a major benefactor of the program goes on the radio to blast his own program. At least Strong never did that on WTMJ.
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Anyone listen to the Mike Francesa interview with St. John's billionaire benefactor Mike Repole? It's a great listen if you want to hear just how screwed up they are over there. He's calling for board members to resign, says the program is a national laughingstock, absolutely goes off about their hiring process.
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Despite the emotional pull, Iona's Tim Cluess has become the third known coach to take himself out of the running for the vacant St. John's job.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26551429/iona-cluess-latest-turn-st-johns (http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26551429/iona-cluess-latest-turn-st-johns)
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Anyone listen to the Mike Francesa interview with St. John's billionaire benefactor Mike Repole? It's a great listen if you want to hear just how screwed up they are over there. He's calling for board members to resign, says the program is a national laughingstock, absolutely goes off about their hiring process.
I missed the interview but heard big Mike taking calls on it afterwards.
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I agree that MU is a significantly better job than SJU. But I’m not sure I agree that MU would have attracted a proportionately better candidate than SJU - and that’s not just based on timing, it’s more a matter of supply.
Look at all the hires that were made this cycle. Where would an MU hire likely slot in? I think the best case scenario would have been a mid major coach with significant experience like Musselman or maybe Oats. With all the competition though, there’s a really good chance they’d miss on Oats who was the only slam dunk mid major hire in that category IMHO. Even if MU had moved on right after the tournament, I think there’s a greater than 50% chance that search ends with Wardle.
Brian Wardle will NEVER be the head coach for the Marquette Men's basketball team. Full stop.
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Brian Wardle will NEVER be the head coach for the Marquette Men's basketball team. Full stop.
As much as many would be adamantly opposed to such a hire, let's be real - Wardle would likely be a strong candidate. Why? He's an alum of the school, which fits the mission-centered objectives of our administrative leadership; he was had success (again, in the eyes of the individuals running the search) at prior stops; and he has head coaching experience (which would likely be a prerequisite if the current coaching staff is ultimately let go).
Again, and for the same reasons, someone like Porter Moser would also be strongly considered (despite the backlash that many on here would have).
Those expecting a Rick Pitino or Tony Bennett to walk through that door are fooling themselves. Similarly, no head coach will be taking a paycut to come here either (so cross off other coaches like Nate Oats, Fred Hoiberg, etc. off too).
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As much as many would be adamantly opposed to such a hire, let's be real - Wardle would likely be a strong candidate. Why? He's an alum of the school, which fits the mission-centered objectives of our administrative leadership; he was had success (again, in the eyes of the individuals running the search) at prior stops; and he has head coaching experience (which would likely be a prerequisite if the current coaching staff is ultimately let go).
Again, and for the same reasons, someone like Porter Moser would also be strongly considered (despite the backlash that many on here would have).
Those expecting a Rick Pitino or Tony Bennett to walk through that door are fooling themselves. Similarly, no head coach will be taking a paycut to come here either (so cross off other coaches like Nate Oats, Fred Hoiberg, etc. off too).
Wardle's coaching success and experience will not be the reason why he will never be considered at MU.
His behavior at both current and previous career posts and resulting negative public exposure fit neither the mission centered objectives of our leadership, nor the desire for our coach to be a responsible public face of the program.
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Then why did they grant him an interview when they hired Wojo? That was after the UWGB incident.
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RUMOR: Porter Moser turned down SJU but is said to be interested if MU job opens in a year. He lives in Wilmette and his kids go to Loyola Academy off 94 so they could finish HS without him moving.
Again, rumor through the grapevine.
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RUMOR: Porter Moser turned down SJU but is said to be interested if MU job opens in a year. He lives in Wilmette and his kids go to Loyola Academy off 94 so they could finish HS without him moving.
Again, rumor through the grapevine.
He can be interested all he wants
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RUMOR: Porter Moser turned down SJU but is said to be interested if MU job opens in a year. He lives in Wilmette and his kids go to Loyola Academy off 94 so they could finish HS without him moving.
Again, rumor through the grapevine.
I have little doubt he'd be interested. MU is a major step up from Loyola. Would MU be interested? No clue.
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RUMOR: Porter Moser turned down SJU but is said to be interested if MU job opens in a year. He lives in Wilmette and his kids go to Loyola Academy off 94 so they could finish HS without him moving.
Again, rumor through the grapevine.
That’s nice. It’s Tony Bennett’s job
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He can be interested all he wants
I agree with this analysis
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That’s nice. It’s Tony Bennett’s job
And Kelvin Sampson is plan B.
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And Kelvin Sampson is plan B.
I’d like to think Chris Beard is plan B
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I missed the interview but heard big Mike taking calls on it afterwards.
Here's the link:
https://omny.fm/shows/mike-francesa/mike-francesa-with-mike-repole
Repole basically just dumps gasoline on the St John's program & starts up the blowtorch. Says he told Mullen not to take the job because he likes him, calls for the president & board members to be fired, says it's a national laughingstock, well worth the 20 minutes if you enjoy schadenfreude.
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That’s nice. It’s Tony Bennett’s job
STOP. Tony Bennett is never ever walking through the door as MU's head coach. Ever.
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Here's the link:
https://omny.fm/shows/mike-francesa/mike-francesa-with-mike-repole
Repole basically just dumps gasoline on the St John's program & starts up the blowtorch. Says he told Mullen not to take the job because he likes him, calls for the president & board members to be fired, says it's a national laughingstock, well worth the 20 minutes if you enjoy schadenfreude.
The Johnnies have messed this up royally, but ...
1. 98+ percent of the nation is unaware that St. John's has a coaching opening, much less how poorly the search has been handled.
2. Firing a college president over a mishandled search for a basketball coach says quite a bit about one's priorities.
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That’s nice. It’s Tony Bennett’s job
If you transfer back to the school you came from, do you have to sit out a year in residency again?
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RUMOR: Porter Moser turned down SJU but is said to be interested if MU job opens in a year. He lives in Wilmette and his kids go to Loyola Academy off 94 so they could finish HS without him moving.
Again, rumor through the grapevine.
Bad Soderburg has been sleeping in front of The Al begging for the job the last three times it was open. He, and Moser, may be interested but they have about the same chance of getting the job as any of us do.
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Paul Hewitt next SJU Coach??
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1118988818395402241
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Paul Hewitt next SJU Coach??
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1118988818395402241
He would have been the coach in 2010 if his wife hadn’t vetoed it. Sound familiar?
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The Johnnies have messed this up royally, but ...
1. 98+ percent of the nation is unaware that St. John's has a coaching opening, much less how poorly the search has been handled.
2. Firing a college president over a mishandled search for a basketball coach says quite a bit about one's priorities.
In terms of the college basketball world, everyone does know.
As far as your second point...I don't know. For schools like us and St John's, that position is effectively your most important tool in terms of marketing, getting donations, & alumni engagement. It's easy to dismiss as just a game, but I'd argue it should be one of the University's most important priorities, for better or worse.
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In terms of the college basketball world, everyone does know.
Right. And I'd suggest "the college basketball world," i.e. those with more than a casual fandom, isn't all that big, and the vast, vast majority of the nation has no idea what's going on at St. John's.
As far as your second point...I don't know. For schools like us and St John's, that position is effectively your most important tool in terms of marketing, getting donations, & alumni engagement. It's easy to dismiss as just a game, but I'd argue it should be one of the University's most important priorities, for better or worse.
I don't disagree that it's an important position, But you still don't fire a university president over a bad coaching search.
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Beilein to Cavs!
Let the dominos fall!
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Beilein to Cavs!
Let the dominos fall!
i wonder who will decommit from michigan now
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Beilein to Cavs!
Let the dominos fall!
Wow. That is a sneaky good hire IMO.
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Beilein to Cavs!
Let the dominos fall!
Snap. Turned down the Pistons and said he was a Michigan lifer....but goes to the Cavs. What a twist!
No idea if this will happen, but if Jalen Wilson decommits, I hope Wojo and Co are on him like white on me.
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Beilein to Cavs!
Let the dominos fall!
Follow Michigan closely, think they promote Luke Yaklich who has his fingerprints all over their defensive transformation. Beilein been hinting for awhile that should be his replacement
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Damn. Good move by Belien
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Wow!
Jalen Wilson, your move.
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36 year old Cavs Assistant GM, Mike Gansey, played for Beilein at West Virginia.
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More importantly, Dan Gilbert is a Detroit guy with bread who owns da Cavs, hey?
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More importantly, Dan Gilbert is a Detroit guy with bread who owns da Cavs, hey?
This could be the big opportunity Wojo has been waiting for. Hopefully his name gets thrown in the mix for UM.
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I don't think Bielein's coaching style and age translate to the NBA. We shall see. I think UM promotes from within.
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This could be the big opportunity Wojo has been waiting for. Hopefully his name gets thrown in the mix for UM.
He won't be. This will be an internal hire.
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This could be the big opportunity Wojo has been waiting for. Hopefully his name gets thrown in the mix for UM.
As much as I would love watching Keefe's head explode, that would likely be a disaster for MU.
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Crean to Michigan!
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In his first 5 seasons at Michigan, Beilein made the NCAA’s 3 times. He won two games in NCAA’s.
Then, the next seven seasons, he made the NCAA’s 6 of 7 seasons. His teams won 18 NCAA games during this time, the same number as Coach K, Calipari, and Roy Williams.
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That is true. It wasn't too long ago that Michigan fans were wondering if Beilein was good enough to continue as Michigan's coach.
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Bill Frieder available to complete the mission at UM?
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This could be the big opportunity Wojo has been waiting for. Hopefully his name gets thrown in the mix for UM.
No chance, what has he really done, not much.
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Pitino???
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I'd guess Michigan will look big initially. Make them say no.
Billy Donovan, Brad Stevens, Jay Wright...
I didn't realize Bielein was 66.
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Jumping from college basketball into the NBA has not gone well for a number of coaches. Obviously, Stevens and Donovan have both "won" in Boston and OKC, respectively, but they have yet to make the NBA Finals (Donovan has yet to get out of the first round in the past three seasons). Other guys like Fred Hoiberg, Leonard Hamilton, Tim Floyd, Rick Pitino, John Calipari, Lon Kruger, Mike Montgomery, Reggie Theus and P.J. Carlesimo all failed in the NBA. Floyd, Pitino and Carlesimo were the only ones I'm aware of that had the opportunity to coach a second NBA franchise.
Considering Beilein's age, this is likely his last coaching stop. I have a hard time envisioning him getting another long-term major gig if he is away from the college game for 3+ years.
Michigan could/should just promote Yaklich or Washington IMO. Any outside hire would kill their recruiting class, and likely enter a rebuilding period.
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Pitino???
Pitino has got to be radioactive in Division I college basketball at this point.
Cheating on your wife with a woman you've never met before on a restaurant table, shortly after you've wished her son happy birthday, then paying her for an abortion, only to get extorted later and go to the FBI? Check.
Having one of your assistants pay an escort service to provide strip shows and sex for recruits for more than four years -- earning a five-game suspension for "failure to monitor" and a four-year probation for your university, along with vacating 123 wins and a national championship? Check.
Funneling $100,000 to a recruit's family in exchange for his commitment, involving your university in in a federal investigation into bribery, money laundering and wire fraud? Check.
Just one of those scandals is enough to take down most coaches. As an AD, you'd have to wonder what Pitino could do to top himself next time.
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Jumping from college basketball into the NBA has not gone well for a number of coaches. Obviously, Stevens and Donovan have both "won" in Boston and OKC, respectively, but they have yet to make the NBA Finals (Donovan has yet to get out of the first round in the past three seasons). Other guys like Fred Hoiberg, Leonard Hamilton, Tim Floyd, Rick Pitino, John Calipari, Lon Kruger, Mike Montgomery, Reggie Theus and P.J. Carlesimo all failed in the NBA. Floyd, Pitino and Carlesimo were the only ones I'm aware of that had the opportunity to coach a second NBA franchise.
KO once told me that the best part of coaching pro basketball is, "In the NBA, I don't have to lie to teenagers' mothers."
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Considering Beilein's age, this is likely his last coaching stop. I have a hard time envisioning him getting another long-term major gig if he is away from the college game for 3+ years.
It all depends on what Gilbert wants out of this. If they're leaning into a rebuild, and want the young guys to learn how to play, this is an excellent hire. They may not win for a couple of years, but they'll be well-drilled in spacing and offensive movement.
If he expects to win right away, then I give it 18 months. At least Beilein will be cashing checks.
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That is true. It wasn't too long ago that Michigan fans were wondering if Beilein was good enough to continue as Michigan's coach.
Not just that but MSU fans were mocking UM for hiring Beilein and saying it cemented UM as second to MSU in the state.
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Promoting Yaklich would make a lot of sense. Michigan would hardly be the first program to promote the top assistant after one of the top 1 or 2 head coaches in program history moves on. He is young, regarded as a good recruiter, and is credited with being the mastermind behind Michigan's elite defense. Checks all the boxes and this late in the carousel it is likely the safest move. I doubt they lose any recruits if they go that route. Of course, no one knows how you will handle the big chair until you are actually sitting in the big chair. Maybe he hits the ground running like a Brad Stevens. Maybe he needs a few years to find his footing. Maybe he won't be able to live up to the predecessor ala Hank.
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Pitino has got to be radioactive in Division I college basketball at this point.
Cheating on your wife with a woman you've never met before on a restaurant table, shortly after you've wished her son happy birthday, then paying her for an abortion, only to get extorted later and go to the FBI? Check.
Having one of your assistants pay an escort service to provide strip shows and sex for recruits for more than four years -- earning a five-game suspension for "failure to monitor" and a four-year probation for your university, along with vacating 123 wins and a national championship? Check.
Funneling $100,000 to a recruit's family in exchange for his commitment, involving your university in in a federal investigation into bribery, money laundering and wire fraud? Check.
Just one of those scandals is enough to take down most coaches. As an AD, you'd have to wonder what Pitino could do to top himself next time.
for a school that still has the Fab Five cloud looming Pitino is the last guy they would consider.
That said, UM has as much money to spend as any program in the country. Big Ten network money, huge donors (e.g., Stephen Ross). Depending on how Brad Stevens is feeling after the disaster that is the past season UM could make a serious push for him.
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I don't think Bielein's coaching style and age translate to the NBA. We shall see. I think UM promotes from within.
Wow on the first 2 sentences.
Guy can flat out coach.
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A lot of guys that coached with high level results in college struggled in the NBA. This will be interesting to watch. Gilbert, a MSU alum, removes competition to his alma mater in the process.
Sneaky
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A lot of guys that coached with high level results in college struggled in the NBA. This will be interesting to watch. Gilbert, a MSU alum, removes competition to his alma mater in the process.
Sneaky
I'm not sure that was the motivation, considering he went after Izzo HARD previously.
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I'm not sure that was the motivation, considering he went after Izzo HARD previously.
Way down the list for sure
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That said, UM has as much money to spend as any program in the country. Big Ten network money, huge donors (e.g., Stephen Ross). Depending on how Brad Stevens is feeling after the disaster that is the past season UM could make a serious push for him.
I'm thinking that they at least reach out to Stevens with an offer - it can't hurt. I'm willing to bet that just as many (or more) incoming recruits would stay for Stevens as an inside hire like Yaklich. And with Kyrie all but gone from Boston, and getting someone like AD a relative long-shot, he'll be mired in a 4-8 playoff position in the East for a good long while.
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Stevens ain't goin' back ta college. Hoo wants ta sell der sole ta 18-22 yos? Makin' lotsa bread in Boston, got draft piks, and will bee rid of Kyrie. All sounds damn good ta mee, hey?
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Stevens ain't goin' back ta college. Hoo wants ta sell der sole ta 18-22 yos? Makin' lotsa bread in Boston, got draft piks, and will bee rid of Kyrie. All sounds damn good ta mee, hey?
Kind of like the saying once you've gone black you will never come back.
Once you've gone pro you never go hoe
Sort of.
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Wow on the first 2 sentences.
Guy can flat out coach.
Guy can flat out coach College basketball. No doubt about it. I don't like the Wolverines, but I do admire Beilein as a coach. I am just not sure his coaching translates to the NBA. Other, younger, more dynamic coaches have attempted the leap to the pros and flamed out. 66 is old for your first NBA gig and getting NBA player to play his style of defense for 82 games is going to be a challenge.
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Wojo not on Free Press short list for Michigan. Lavall Jordan is.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2019/05/13/john-beilein-replacement-michigan-basketball-coaching-candidates/1188924001/
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Shockin', hey?
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Guy can flat out coach College basketball. No doubt about it. I don't like the Wolverines, but I do admire Beilein as a coach. I am just not sure his coaching translates to the NBA. Other, younger, more dynamic coaches have attempted the leap to the pros and flamed out. 66 is old for your first NBA gig and getting NBA player to play his style of defense for 82 games is going to be a challenge.
He’s been very adaptable on defense his entire coaching career. This isn’t Bo Ryan who ran one system his whole career. Hell, before the last two years, he was seen much more as an offensive coach than defensive.
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Wojo not on Free Press short list for Michigan. Lavall Jordan is.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2019/05/13/john-beilein-replacement-michigan-basketball-coaching-candidates/1188924001/
So is Porter Moser.
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Stevens ain't goin' back ta college. Hoo wants ta sell der sole ta 18-22 yos? Makin' lotsa bread in Boston, got draft piks, and will bee rid of Kyrie. All sounds damn good ta mee, hey?
he could make more at UM and after coaching Kyrie and Marcus Smart coaching 18-22 year olds might not seem like that bad of an option.
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Wojo not on Free Press short list for Michigan. Lavall Jordan is.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2019/05/13/john-beilein-replacement-michigan-basketball-coaching-candidates/1188924001/
We all know the names a newspaper columnist throws out is the official short list. The NY papers nailed it with the St. John's short list and the LA papers had Mick Cronin the whole time for UCLA, right?
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Wojo not on Free Press short list for Michigan. Lavall Jordan is.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2019/05/13/john-beilein-replacement-michigan-basketball-coaching-candidates/1188924001/
It'd be good for MU if Jordan stayed at Butler
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Wojo not on Free Press short list for Michigan. Lavall Jordan is.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2019/05/13/john-beilein-replacement-michigan-basketball-coaching-candidates/1188924001/
Reporters guessing at what a short list might look like?
(https://media.giphy.com/media/9PwYz3R2YHrWK6e6x7/giphy.gif)
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I've seen Wojo's name mentioned a handful of times today, though I imagine Michigan will set their bar a bit higher.
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It may be that some in college basketball value Wojo significantly higher than our resident “experts”, Jon and muguru.
Experts or blowhards??
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Michigan Admin would do well to have a good look at Ed Cooley. What he could do with elite budget and facilities could be quite amazing.
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Detroit News has Wojo on their Michigan short list:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mlive.com/wolverines/2019/05/the-top-candidates-to-replace-john-beilein-as-michigan-basketball-coach.html%3FoutputType%3Damp
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Detroit News has Wojo on their Michigan short list:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mlive.com/wolverines/2019/05/the-top-candidates-to-replace-john-beilein-as-michigan-basketball-coach.html%3FoutputType%3Damp
Some of those names are ridiculous. Always interesting to see how programs regard themselves.
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Detroit News has Wojo on their Michigan short list:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mlive.com/wolverines/2019/05/the-top-candidates-to-replace-john-beilein-as-michigan-basketball-coach.html%3FoutputType%3Damp
Wojo characterized as 'young and successful'.
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Wojo characterized as 'young and successful'.
Always good for the program to get positive PR. I hope his name becomes prominent in this search. This is an attractive job, so I expect a lot of quality prospects to be involved.
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Wojo characterized as 'young and successful'.
42 and pulling in a 7 figure income. I'd say that's young and successful. That said, if he's on Michigan's short list, it's a very long short list.
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42 and pulling in a 7 figure income. I'd say that's young and successful. That said, if he's on Michigan's short list, it's a very long short list.
The success that they are referring to has nothing to do with his income. And you know that.
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The success that they are referring to has nothing to do with his income. And you know that.
Of course. It was a joke, Fluffy. Sorry you missed that.
Whatever the article says, here are my honest comments: 1. Wojo has had successes and failures at Marquette. Way too early to designate his stay at MU as "successful". 2. No way Wojo is a candidate for Michigan. They would rather hire one of their own assistants than give Steve the job.
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Of course. It was a joke, Fluffy. Sorry you missed that.
It was easy to miss. Jokes are usually funny.
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Detroit News has Wojo on their Michigan short list:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mlive.com/wolverines/2019/05/the-top-candidates-to-replace-john-beilein-as-michigan-basketball-coach.html%3FoutputType%3Damp
Please feel free to take him
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It was easy to miss. Jokes are usually funny.
So I'll scratch your name from the comp list for when I open in Vegas next month. I had been hoping to see you (in costume, of course) but so it goes.
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So I'll scratch your name from the comp list for when I open in Vegas next month. I had been hoping to see you (in costume, of course) but so it goes.
Lenny Gaga?
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Lenny Gaga?
Gaga is opening for me - she needed the gig, happy to help.
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As much as I would love watching Keefe's head explode, that would likely be a disaster for MU.
No way U of M hires Wojo. In fact, the word "Wojo" will never ever be mentioned inside the Fleming building.
Mark Schlissel is a gifted leader with a significant record of world-class accomplishment. He would never make such a pedestrian mistake.
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No way U of M hires Wojo. In fact, the word "Wojo" will never ever be mentioned inside the Fleming building.
Mark Schlissel is a gifted leader with a significant record of world-class accomplishment. He would never make such a pedestrian mistake.
My bet, and it's uninformed, is Michigan hires from within.
Go Blue!
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Some of those names are ridiculous. Always interesting to see how programs regard themselves.
Kinda like how average foreign colleges promote themselves...
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As much as I would love watching Keefe's head explode, that would likely be a disaster for MU.
Michigan is UM.
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Michigan Coaching Tracker
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.maizenbrew.com/platform/amp/basketball/2019/5/13/18618453/michigan-basketball-coaching-search-tracker
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Michigan is UM.
That was funny
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That was funny
Thanks, TAMU.
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Wojo characterized as 'young and successful'.
Mystikal?
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Please feel free to take him
Jonny has seen talent here on the west coast, he would know.
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No way U of M hires Wojo. In fact, the word "Wojo" will never ever be mentioned inside the Fleming building.
Mark Schlissel is a gifted leader with a significant record of world-class accomplishment. He would never make such a pedestrian mistake.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2014/09/30/schlissel-football-contoversy/16488641/
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https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2014/09/30/schlissel-football-contoversy/16488641/
Thanks for posting that. As you know, Schlissel handled the Morris matter and Hoke tenure with great skill.
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Detroit News has Wojo on their Michigan short list:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mlive.com/wolverines/2019/05/the-top-candidates-to-replace-john-beilein-as-michigan-basketball-coach.html%3FoutputType%3Damp
Interesting names.
Those listed who had no ties to either Michigan or Beilein were Stevens, Donovan, Wright, Beard, Bennett, Few, Barnes, Oats, Prohm, Wojo and White.
While it's easy to just dismiss Wojo, he's at least as likely (and probably moreso) than Wright, Beard, Bennett, Few and a couple other names on that list. As is usually the case, folks from the outside seem to have pretty high regard for our guy; we who are close to MU all have our biases, one way or another.
I don't know what Stevens thinks about college hoops -- would he like to go back to recruiting? would he leave a glamorous NBA franchise that should still have one of the best teams in the East next season (and might be better and certainly easier to coach w/o Kyrie? could Michigan beat his NBA salary? -- but he's certainly an intriguing possibility. Same with Donovan but more, because he makes a TON of money.
Like a few other Scoopers, I tend to think Michigan would stay in the family, but who knows how big a splash they want to make (and can afford to make)?
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Kinda like how average foreign colleges promote themselves...
What average foreign colleges are you speaking about? Are you attempting to make me feel bad for going to get a master's at a damn good school?
Michigan thinking they can get Nova is ridiculous. Your constant unprovoked insults on here shows your character as a pathetic person with some deep seeded insecurities. I would imagine it doesn't stop here too, feel bad for your loved ones.
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No way U of M hires Wojo. In fact, the word "Wojo" will never ever be mentioned inside the Fleming building.
Mark Schlissel is a gifted leader with a significant record of world-class accomplishment. He would never make such a pedestrian mistake.
Schlissel won’t make the hire and will let his AD make the hire.
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"Things are going great now, but I don't know how long it will last. I've always said the bubble has to burst sometime. Coaching is a funny profession. The longer you stay, the closer you are to being fired. I personally don't think I'll be coaching too much longer. I've always said you leave nothing behind you, that it doesn't add up to anything. I mean, can you imagine being in your fifties and still worrying if some cheerleader is pregnant? I've always said that the ideal coach has a mother with money and a wife fully employed in a civil service job."
--- Al McGuire
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"Things are going great now, but I don't know how long it will last. I've always said the bubble has to burst sometime. Coaching is a funny profession. The longer you stay, the closer you are to being fired. I personally don't think I'll be coaching too much longer. I've always said you leave nothing behind you, that it doesn't add up to anything. I mean, can you imagine being in your fifties and still worrying if some cheerleader is pregnant? I've always said that the ideal coach has a mother with money and a wife fully employed in a civil service job."
--- Al McGuire
70 is the new 50
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"Things are going great now, but I don't know how long it will last. I've always said the bubble has to burst sometime. Coaching is a funny profession. The longer you stay, the closer you are to being fired. I personally don't think I'll be coaching too much longer. I've always said you leave nothing behind you, that it doesn't add up to anything. I mean, can you imagine being in your fifties and still worrying if some cheerleader is pregnant? I've always said that the ideal coach has a mother with money and a wife fully employed in a civil service job."
--- Al McGuire
Al was the best mouth I'd ever heard.
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Doc
On Al's FB page today was a quote about the FBI talking to him about three locations in town declared off limits and Al replied that he hangs out two them. Only Al could make light of a meeting with the FBI.
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No way U of M hires Wojo. In fact, the word "Wojo" will never ever be mentioned inside the Fleming building.
Mark Schlissel is a gifted leader with a significant record of world-class accomplishment. He would never make such a pedestrian mistake.
But wait...wait...Many here prefer and desire Coach Wojo, even though he caved down the stretch and mishandled the Hausergate affair.
How can you so callously speak of our coach in this way?
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But wait...wait...Many here prefer and desire Coach Wojo, even though he caved down the stretch and mishandled the Hausergate affair.
How can you so callously speak of our coach in this way?
Prefer Wojo to who? Beilein? I don't think there's a single person who thinks that.
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Prefer Wojo to who? Beilein? I don't think there's a single person who thinks that.
Typical strawman argument.
"All the Wojo slurpers think he's better than Bennett and Few and Beilein put together!"
Said nobody ever, ever, ever.
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What average foreign colleges are you speaking about? Are you attempting to make me feel bad for going to get a master's at a damn good school?
Michigan thinking they can get Nova is ridiculous. Your constant unprovoked insults on here shows your character as a pathetic person with some deep seeded insecurities. I would imagine it doesn't stop here too, feel bad for your loved ones.
I only respond, never initiate.
Some of us got tired of the hubris here. You are free to take shots at others but get pised off when you get some back? Typical.
So many Scoopers feel free to say whatever but feel ass hurt when their target retaliates. Grow the f#ck up.
The world is full of great unis. Yours ain't one of 'em.
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I only respond, never initiate.
Some of us got tired of the hubris here. You are free to take shots at others but get pised off when you get some back? Typical.
So many Scoopers feel free to say whatever but feel ass hurt when their target retaliates. Grow the f#ck up.
The world is full of great unis. Yours ain't one of 'em.
But you're the biggest snowflake here.
Telling people to grow up surely won't resonate well.
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Doc
On Al's FB page today was a quote about the FBI talking to him about three locations in town declared off limits and Al replied that he hangs out two them. Only Al could make light of a meeting with the FBI.
The man was Joyce with a splash of Ginsburg and a Kerouac chaser. Pure poetry.
Goddamn but he was brilliant.
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But you're the biggest snowflake here.
Telling people to grow up surely won't resonate well.
+1.
Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane, apparently.
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Schlissel won’t make the hire and will let his AD make the hire.
Of course Schlissel won't make the hire but he will approve it.
A great CEO let's his chef make the soup. But he samples it before it leaves the kitchen.
Crazy as it is, the head coaches of MBB and football are strategic hires at major universities. In many ways, these are far more crucial to a university's stature and reputation than the Dean of Letters, Arts, and Sciences.
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But wait...wait...Many here prefer and desire Coach Wojo, even though he caved down the stretch and mishandled the Hausergate affair.
How can you so callously speak of our coach in this way?
Willie
The odds of U of M hiring Wojo to replace Beilein is less likely than Harbaugh wearing an Ohio tee shirt.
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Bennett and Few and Beilein put together!"
Mike,
The Dodds "Put Them in a Blender" Thesis?
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Willie
The odds of U of M hiring Wojo to replace Beilein is less likely than Harbaugh wearing an Ohio tee shirt.
T shirt or not, Harbaugh is owned by OSU.
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Eyem a Vitamix dude. Blender r four pussays, hey?
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I only respond, never initiate.
Some of us got tired of the hubris here. You are free to take shots at others but get pised off when you get some back? Typical.
So many Scoopers feel free to say whatever but feel ass hurt when their target retaliates. Grow the f#ck up.
The world is full of great unis. Yours ain't one of 'em.
You've done plenty of initiating Keefe. Remind me again how many times you've been banned? Off the top of my head over the year I've seen you attack Brewcity, Tower, Wades, Chick, and Sultan all of which you've initiated. it's old and pathetic.
Exactly what shots did I take at you or Michigan? I said some of those names are ridiculous, you made it personal. That's initiating or in your egotistical thought process did you think I was calling everyone associated with Michigan ridiculous? If you're referring to the two times I called you out once for insulting Firefighters who are true heroes and once for needlessly attacking tower then yes I did that, weeks ago, in context as opposed to randomly attacking you as you returned.
I'm far from hurt, I honestly doubt you know anything about my university and am proud that I went to MU at a time when it was a heck of a lot harder than the era you were so stroke your ego about your fancy Prep HS and your UofM degree but I'm perfectly happy with my grad school choice. Is it elite? Nope far from, but you don't know anything about the education I'm finishing here or why I chose it.
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Interesting names.
Like a few other Scoopers, I tend to think Michigan would stay in the family, but who knows how big a splash they want to make (and can afford to make)?
Beilein was from outside of the "family." Basketball doesn't have the same "it has to be a Michigan Man" delusion that football does (maybe since they aren't hanging on to their glory days that are long gone).
If they were to really stay within 'the family" with a qualified hire then Brian Dutcher would be the guy, but as we know that isn't going to happen considering his ties to the Ed Martin scandal. Jordan was briefly an assistant there and didn't play there. Maybe Saddi Washington? Again though, he didn't play there.
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Not to commingle posts but Jon would pick his nose to show you his class ring.
Fluff i wouldnt worry about any slights on urs or any other university. Ive met some of the biggest idiots and incapable people that one could ever imagine from the aupposedly greatest universities and some of the most intelligent and accomplished from community collges ans commuter schools. University admissions is more socio-economic than truly ability based, so dont fear the snobbery of those born with silver spoons. It may get them in the door but what do they ultimately do with it?? Thise that continue to refer to where they went to school usually havent done much since...
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You've done plenty of initiating Keefe. Remind me again how many times you've been banned? Off the top of my head over the year I've seen you attack Brewcity, Tower, Wades, Chick, and Sultan all of which you've initiated. it's old and pathetic.
Exactly what shots did I take at you or Michigan? I said some of those names are ridiculous, you made it personal. That's initiating or in your egotistical thought process did you think I was calling everyone associated with Michigan ridiculous? If you're referring to the two times I called you out once for insulting Firefighters who are true heroes and once for needlessly attacking tower then yes I did that, weeks ago, in context as opposed to randomly attacking you as you returned.
I'm far from hurt, I honestly doubt you know anything about my university and am proud that I went to MU at a time when it was a heck of a lot harder than the era you were so stroke your ego about your fancy Prep HS and your UofM degree but I'm perfectly happy with my school choice. Is it elite? Nope far from, but you don't know anything about the education I'm finishing here or why I chose it.
How dare you say MU was not hard back in the day! Many of us had to sit through Horton Roe!!!
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Sand Knit
You really bring very little to most conversations. Keep up the consistent work!
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Not to commingle posts but Jon would pick his nose to show you his class ring.
Fluff i wouldnt worry about any slights on urs or any other university. Ive met some of the biggest idiots and incapable people that one could ever imagine from the aupposedly greatest universities and some of the most intelligent and accomplished from community collges ans commuter schools. University admissions is more socio-economic than truly ability based, so dont fear the snobbery of those born with silver spoons. It may get them in the door but what do they ultimately do with it?? Thise that continue to refer to where they went to school usually havent done much since...
Breaking out Ann Richards?
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I'm far from hurt, I honestly doubt you know anything about my university and am proud that I went to MU at a time when it was a heck of a lot harder than the era you were so stroke your ego about your fancy Prep HS and your UofM degree but I'm perfectly happy with my grad school choice. Is it elite? Nope far from, but you don't know anything about the education I'm finishing here or why I chose it.
Living on the east coast was fun. I used to ask Michigan grads "so how many Ivy's rejected to make you go to U of M?" They'd usually say that they only applied to every Ivy school because their moms made them, then start crying. At least those who went to Wisconsin admitted it was because Madison was "an awesome party town" and didn't try to pretend they could have gone to an Ivy, NESCAC, Duke, Northwestern, UVA, Wash U, etc.
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Sand Knit
You really bring very little to most conversations. Keep up the consistent work!
Sorry if i touched a nerve, Im guessing ur an underacheiver ??
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Sandy
No nerve touched. Another stellar post on your part.
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Beilein was from outside of the "family." Basketball doesn't have the same "it has to be a Michigan Man" delusion that football does (maybe since they aren't hanging on to their glory days that are long gone).
If they were to really stay within 'the family" with a qualified hire then Brian Dutcher would be the guy, but as we know that isn't going to happen considering his ties to the Ed Martin scandal. Jordan was briefly an assistant there and didn't play there. Maybe Saddi Washington? Again though, he didn't play there.
Michigan football is very relevant today.
A top 10 finish last year and a Top 10 preseason ranking today suggests they are very much in the discussion.
Even though Michigan is the winningest program in the history of the sport, I am not one who thinks Michigan needs to win it all. I love the team, the home field, the tradition. There is no finer place on earth than Ann Arbor on a Saturday in October. Michigan alumni understand this.
Go Blue!
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Not to commingle posts but Jon would pick his nose to show you his class ring.
I have three alma maters but two class rings.
One from one of the oldest colleges in America. The other from Marquette.
When I wear one it is almost always the Marquette signet. And I wear it with pride.
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Sorry if i touched a nerve, Im guessing ur an underacheiver ??
Keep up the good posting. We need more guys like you who see the big picture for what it is and less out and out slurpers.
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Living on the east coast was fun. I used to ask Michigan grads "so how many Ivy's rejected to make you go to U of M?" They'd usually say that they only applied to every Ivy school because their moms made them, then start crying. At least those who went to Wisconsin admitted it was because Madison was "an awesome party town" and didn't try to pretend they could have gone to an Ivy, NESCAC, Duke, Northwestern, UVA, Wash U, etc.
Yea, but I did go to Harvard. So what's your point?
Is matriculating from Harvard the moral equivalent of working for, say, Columbia?
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Wow this thread got worthless fast
Guess I'll check back in on the site around October
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Wow this thread got worthless fast
Guess I'll check back in on the site around October
You will miss a lot of good stuff between now and then. Recruiting, the foreign trip etc.
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Wow this thread got worthless fast
Guess I'll check back in on the site around October
Pfft. Sounds like something a graduate of an inferior university might say.
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Yea, but I did go to Harvard. So what's your point?
Is matriculating from Harvard the moral equivalent of working for, say, Columbia?
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/alan-dershowitz-mccarthyism-harvard-winthrop-house-sullivan-weinstein
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Yea, but I did go to Harvard. So what's your point?
Is matriculating from Harvard the moral equivalent of working for, say, Columbia?
How do you know if someone went to Harvard? Don't worry, they'll tell you.
And when is the last time Michigan football won something of consequence?
Now, back to talking about coaching changes.
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How do you know if someone went to Harvard? Don't worry, they'll tell you.
And when is the last time Michigan football won something of consequence?
Now, back to talking about coaching changes.
Didnt take long did it 😂😂
Like the sun in the East 😂😂
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Sum y'all kneed ta find yo entertainment bye fartin' in da bathtub, hey?
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Sum y'all kneed ta find yo entertainment bye fartin' in da bathtub, hey?
Think some of the fools on here are getting dutch oven'd by the old lady every night.
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Jonny has seen talent here on the west coast, he would know.
But how? I don’t get it. How could I have watched so many pac 12 games? It just doesn’t make sense.
☝️ This guy
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Not really. Most Harvard grads I know don’t talk about it a lot. They went to undergrad there though and when you do that it’s the equivalent of “old money”. You don’t have to say anything, you just know you are rich. Grad school people tend to brag. They are the equivalent of “new money”. They wear it on their sleeve or their finger to feel like they are in a club they are really not in.
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But how? I don’t get it. How could I have watched so many pac 12 games? It just doesn’t make sense.
☝️ This guy
Ahh yes, the west coast
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Not really. Most Harvard grads I know don’t talk about it a lot. They went to undergrad there though and when you do that it’s the equivalent of “old money”. You don’t have to say anything, you just know you are rich. Grad school people tend to brag. They are the equivalent of “new money”. They wear it on their sleeve or their finger to feel like they are in a club they are really not in.
I agree with this analysis.
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Well this thread has nothing to do with the topic. Suppose other than the Recruiting & NM, that's par for the course.
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Brendan Quinn from The Athletic lists florida's Mike White as the likely top candidate for Michigan, Wojo, Steve Prohm and Mike Brey in the next group. Also says Juwan Howard would draw interest if he wants to leave the NBA for college.
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Brendan Quinn from The Athletic lists florida's Mike White as the likely top candidate for Michigan, Wojo, Steve Prohm and Mike Brey in the next group. Also says Juwan Howard would draw interest if he wants to leave the NBA for college.
Goodman reported that both White and Brey aren't interested. I just can't see Howard being a legitimate candidate because A) he has no college coaching experience, B) he has no head coaching experience and C) he was a member of the Fab Five and some in Ann Arbor are still spooked by any connections to that group and their history.
"Media speculation on the candidates is laughable. For example: As for potential candidates Michigan may consider, The Sporting News' Mike DeCourcy came out with a list on Monday detailing where the program may turn. Former Florida coach Billy Donovan, who is now with the Oklahoma City Thunder, is at the top of the pecking order followed by Davidson's Bob McKillop and Ed Cooley at Providence."
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Goodman reported that both White and Brey aren't interested. I just can't see Howard being a legitimate candidate because A) he has no college coaching experience, B) he has no head coaching experience and C) he was a member of the Fab Five and some in Ann Arbor are still spooked by any connections to that group and their history.
"Media speculation on the candidates is laughable. For example: As for potential candidates Michigan may consider, The Sporting News' Mike DeCourcy came out with a list on Monday detailing where the program may turn. Former Florida coach Billy Donovan, who is now with the Oklahoma City Thunder, is at the top of the pecking order followed by Davidson's Bob McKillop and Ed Cooley at Providence."
McKillop? Michigan isn't hiring a 68-year-old who's never been above the mid-major level in any role.
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Considering how far down their wish lists UCLA and SJU ended up, it will be interesting to see how it goes for Michigan.
Michigan has a lot of money, but they cannot claim they are a blue blood when it comes to basketball. Thanks to the vacating of so many games thanks to the Fab 5, their official record differs from their regular record. But Brian Ellerbe and Tommy Amaker did not have great records at UM, and even Beilein was only 248-143 and 111-87 in 12 years. In other words, 21-12 and 9-7 ish on average.
Should be entertaining. My guess is internal.
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Considering how far down their wish lists UCLA and SJU ended up, it will be interesting to see how it goes for Michigan.
Michigan has a lot of money, but they cannot claim they are a blue blood when it comes to basketball. Thanks to the vacating of so many games thanks to the Fab 5, their official record differs from their regular record. But Brian Ellerbe and Tommy Amaker did not have great records at UM, and even Beilein was only 248-143 and 111-87 in 12 years. In other words, 21-12 and 9-7 ish on average.
Should be entertaining. My guess is internal.
Most every school not a blue blood would be delighted with 2 national championship games in 12 years.
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Most every school not a blue blood would be delighted with 2 national championship games in 12 years.
I think Beilein was a very good college coach. I think he had a couple of great runs that he should be proud of and that I am jealous of. But it cannot be argued that Michigan is a blue blood in basketball or that Beilein had an overall record that was truly awesome.
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I think Beilein was a very good college coach. I think he had a couple of great runs that he should be proud of and that I am jealous of. But it cannot be argued that Michigan is a blue blood in basketball or that Beilein had an overall record that was truly awesome.
People often lump Syracuse and Arizona in with the Blue bloods, Michigan has more final fours and runner ups than either of them. Not saying that they're a blue blood but just that I think if one was going to include AZ and SU they'd have to include UM.
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Belein's accomplishments as a coach are better than 99% of the coaches out there.
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I think Beilein was a very good college coach. I think he had a couple of great runs that he should be proud of and that I am jealous of. But it cannot be argued that Michigan is a blue blood in basketball or that Beilein had an overall record that was truly awesome.
In his final 7 seasons at Michigan, Beilein won 18 NCAA games, matched by only a handful of coaches in the game, (K, Cal, Roy) In those 7 seasons, Michigan had two Championship game appearances, an elite 8, two Sweet 16’s. He won the league twice, but not in those 7 seasons. People are seeing and remembering 3 very deep NCAA runs, as well as the 2nd weekend a few other times, all within the last 7 seasons. Izzo had 15 NCAA wins in the same stretch. Winning in the NCAA tourney is often based on matchups, skill, health, luck, playing well at the time, all kinds of things, but ...winning in the NCAA’s
matters.
People see a coach that came in and won at a high level where it hadn’t been done at a place for a long time. He also played an attractive style of ball to many. And he was well liked by his peers, media, fans, etc...
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In his final 7 seasons at Michigan, Beilein won 18 NCAA games, matched by only a handful of coaches in the game, (K, Cal, Roy) In those 7 seasons, Michigan had two Championship game appearances, an elite 8, two Sweet 16’s. He won the league twice, but not in those 7 seasons. People are seeing and remembering 3 very deep NCAA runs, as well as the 2nd weekend a few other times, all within the last 7 seasons. Izzo had 15 NCAA wins in the same stretch. Winning in the NCAA tourney is often based on matchups, skill, health, luck, playing well at the time, all kinds of things, but ...winning in the NCAA’s
matters.
People see a coach that came in and won at a high level where it hadn’t been done at a place for a long time. He also played an attractive style of ball to many. And he was well liked by his peers, media, fans, etc...
In addition he won at every single level he coached at . 754 career wins.
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Also, in one of those championship game appearances, the opponent had to vacate the championship.
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In addition he won at every single level he coached at . 754 career wins.
almost certainly the only coach to coach in HS, JUCO, D3, D2, D1 and now the NBA. A true testament to his abilities.
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In his final 7 seasons at Michigan, Beilein won 18 NCAA games, matched by only a handful of coaches in the game, (K, Cal, Roy) In those 7 seasons, Michigan had two Championship game appearances, an elite 8, two Sweet 16’s. He won the league twice, but not in those 7 seasons. People are seeing and remembering 3 very deep NCAA runs, as well as the 2nd weekend a few other times, all within the last 7 seasons. Izzo had 15 NCAA wins in the same stretch. Winning in the NCAA tourney is often based on matchups, skill, health, luck, playing well at the time, all kinds of things, but ...winning in the NCAA’s
matters.
People see a coach that came in and won at a high level where it hadn’t been done at a place for a long time. He also played an attractive style of ball to many. And he was well liked by his peers, media, fans, etc...
I have no idea whar you are trying to say here. Michigan won the regular season crown in 2014 and tourney in 2017 and 2018, the final seven seasons of his tenure in Ann Arbor (the 2012 title was the year before the seven season timeframe you established started).
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People often lump Syracuse and Arizona in with the Blue bloods, Michigan has more final fours and runner ups than either of them. Not saying that they're a blue blood but just that I think if one was going to include AZ and SU they'd have to include UM.
Syracuse and Michigan both have 6 Final Fours. I don't think of either as Blue Bloods. Both very good programs.
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Yea, but I did go to Harvard. So what's your point?
Is matriculating from Harvard the moral equivalent of working for, say, Columbia?
jonny pees MU blue n gold-note he went to havod AFTER he went to MU though eyn'a. MU prep'd him well. if ya really get to know the man, these are the guys MU needs wearing our stuff out there
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Syracuse and Michigan both have 6 Final Fours. I don't think of either as Blue Bloods. Both very good programs.
I was including the fab five ones.
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jonny pees MU blue n gold-note he went to havod AFTER he went to MU though eyn'a. MU prep'd him well. if ya really get to know the man, these are the guys MU needs wearing our stuff out there
I received my doctorate in Behavioral Philosophy, Fine Arts, and Economics where I learned negotiations with a baseball bat, how to stretch your budget half way through a semester by selling back your parent bought books for student cash, and where I learned to master the art of glass shard mosaics. It is said you can take the boy out of the Lanche, but you cannot take the Lanche out of the boy. Sadly, some forget this lesson.
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I have no idea whar you are trying to say here. Michigan won the regular season crown in 2014 and tourney in 2017 and 2018, the final seven seasons of his tenure in Ann Arbor (the 2012 title was the year before the seven season timeframe you established started).
I didn’t mention the conference tourney results one way or another. He did win the league one of his two times within the 7 years. Winning the conference tournament has value as well. My mistake, which only improves the point thanks.
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Interesting research report on Jim Boeheim and his view to the coaching carousel. He mentions Wojo and Buzz.
Boeheims first season, 1976-77, was Al's last. That really is quite a linkage .
https://www.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/2019/04/syracuse-coach-jim-boeheim-has-no-plans-to-retire-no-end-game-strategy.html
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Wouldn't it be fun if at the next big national coaches conference they set up a carousel and the coaches got on it and rode around on all the ponies?
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Wouldn't it be fun if at the next big national coaches conference they set up a carousel and the coaches got on it and rode around on all the ponies?
POTY
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Wouldn't it be fun if at the next big national coaches conference they set up a carousel and the coaches got on it and rode around on all the ponies?
I prefer a Cake Walk.
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So will Mrs. Shaka approve of Ann Arbor?
https://www.burntorangenation.com/2019/5/16/18628116/shaka-smart-michigan-wolverines-coaching-search-texas-longhorns
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So will Mrs. Shaka approve of Ann Arbor?
https://www.burntorangenation.com/2019/5/16/18628116/shaka-smart-michigan-wolverines-coaching-search-texas-longhorns
Dude keeps falling up for some reason.
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Dude keeps falling up for some reason.
Yep. One more underwhelming season and he'll replace Stevens with the Celtics.
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Dude keeps falling up for some reason.
When was the last time he fell up?
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When was the last time he fell up?
When he went to Texas. Sorry I'm just not impressed by the guy. He's lived off the final four run and his style of play that is supposed to be "exciting," but he really didn't perform up to his reputation toward the end of his VCU tenure, and certainly not at Texas.
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When he went to Texas. Sorry I'm just not impressed by the guy. He's lived off the final four run and his style of play that is supposed to be "exciting," but he really didn't perform up to his reputation toward the end of his VCU tenure, and certainly not at Texas.
Didn't some rule changes after 2011 or 2012 make his defense a lot less effective? I thought I read that awhile back
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When he went to Texas. Sorry I'm just not impressed by the guy. He's lived off the final four run and his style of play that is supposed to be "exciting," but he really didn't perform up to his reputation toward the end of his VCU tenure, and certainly not at Texas.
When we looked at Shaka, he was coming off two 5-seeds & had won NCAA games in 3 of the previous 4 seasons, including a Final Four. He certainly had earned a bigger opportunity, so I think that move up was one he deserved. But getting another comparable or bigger job now when he's probably on the hot seat next year? That would be falling up. His tenure at Texas hasn't been very inspired. Slower pace than he ever played at VCU, and while the defense has been good, the results have been mediocre at best.
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When we looked at Shaka, he was coming off two 5-seeds & had won NCAA games in 3 of the previous 4 seasons, including a Final Four. He certainly had earned a bigger opportunity, so I think that move up was one he deserved. But getting another comparable or bigger job now when he's probably on the hot seat next year? That would be falling up. His tenure at Texas hasn't been very inspired. Slower pace than he ever played at VCU, and while the defense has been good, the results have been mediocre at best.
Agreed...on his work at Texas...though I wouldn't write him off.
Also agree that his work at VCU was enough to get him the MU or Texas job...MU nation was thrilled when we thought we had landed him.
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When we looked at Shaka, he was coming off two 5-seeds & had won NCAA games in 3 of the previous 4 seasons, including a Final Four. He certainly had earned a bigger opportunity, so I think that move up was one he deserved. But getting another comparable or bigger job now when he's probably on the hot seat next year? That would be falling up. His tenure at Texas hasn't been very inspired. Slower pace than he ever played at VCU, and while the defense has been good, the results have been mediocre at best.
Uh oh...there's that word.
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Agreed...on his work at Texas...though I wouldn't write him off.
Also agree that his work at VCU was enough to get him the MU or Texas job...MU nation was thrilled when we thought we had landed him.
I certainly was. I still think he may have done better here than at Texas. But what felt like a big miss at the time doesn't feel that way anymore after seeing his Texas tenure.
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It is said you can take the boy out of the Lanche, but you cannot take the Lanche out of the boy. Sadly, some forget this lesson.
Al said it best - the best finishing school for college boys is behind the wheel of a cab or tending bar for working stiffs who know the meaning of an honest day's wage for an honest day's work.
For me, it was the crucible of war. Jumping out of an aircraft to operate deep inside bad guy land with 7 other Ranger-trained warriors for two weeks at a time strips away the superficial, the pretensions, and the gilded edges.
There is no finer compliment one can pay a man than to trust him to have your back. Few have that privilege.
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Al said it best - the best finishing school for college boys is behind the wheel of a cab or tending bar for working stiffs who know the meaning of an honest day's wage for an honest day's work.
For me, it was the crucible of war. Jumping out of an aircraft to operate deep inside bad guy land with 7 other Ranger-trained warriors for two weeks at a time strips away the superficial, the pretensions, and the gilded edges.
There is no finer compliment one can pay a man than to trust him to have your back. Few have that privilege.
at what point did those come back?
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Michigan has a lot of money, but they cannot claim they are a blue blood when it comes to basketball.
My guess is internal.
Not sure of the precise definition of Blue Blood but Michigan Athletics is a machine. They win consistently in every sport , men and women's, in which they field a team.
And the University of Michigan is an academic powerhouse which excels in every way possible. It's student athletes are expected to perform both on the field and in the classroom. And they matriculate to go on to lead lives of distinction.
Duke only wins in basketball while Kentucky and Kansas are great in hoops but, really, nothing else.
Taken as a whole I would rather be U of M than KU or UK.
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How do you know if someone went to Harvard? Don't worry, they'll tell you.
And when is the last time Michigan football won something of consequence?
Now, back to talking about coaching changes.
How do you know if someone didn't go to Harvard? Don't worry, their jealousy and anger at the unfairness of life will tell you.
And when is the last time Michigan football won something of consequence? Does a National Championship under Lloyd Carr count?
When is the last time a Congregation of Holy Cross school won anything of consequence? How you say...Ronald Reagan era...
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Not sure of the precise definition of Blue Blood but Michigan Athletics is a machine. They win consistently in every sport , men and women's, in which they field a team.
And the University of Michigan is an academic powerhouse which excels in every way possible. It's student athletes are expected to perform both on the field and in the classroom. And they matriculate to go on to lead lives of distinction.
Duke only wins in basketball while Kentucky and Kansas are great in hoops but, really, nothing else.
Taken as a whole I would rather be U of M than KU or UK.
A bit of hyperbole here....they are certainly an upper echelon athletic department with the funding to show for it. They have also historically had some nice majors for some of these kids to be housed in to pull that off specifically in football and hoops. That said, an excellent academic school and excellent athletics, but they do not win in every sport they field a team in. Men's Lacrosse, as an example, are 35-76 in their history....MU gave UM a loss this year to help that cause.
Duke has won 6 national titles in golf, 3 in Lacrosse, 5 in basketball, 1 in soccer and 1 in tennis. That's more than just basketball.
Kentucky won a national title in football as well as cross country.
Kansas has won a number of track and field national titles and cross country....8 in total.
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Al said it best - the best finishing school for college boys is behind the wheel of a cab or tending bar for working stiffs who know the meaning of an honest day's wage for an honest day's work.
For me, it was the crucible of war. Jumping out of an aircraft to operate deep inside bad guy land with 7 other Ranger-trained warriors for two weeks at a time strips away the superficial, the pretensions, and the gilded edges.
There is no finer compliment one can pay a man than to trust him to have your back. Few have that privilege.
Good mellow drama
Should we just name Jon the GOAT and shut down the internet?
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Not sure of the precise definition of Blue Blood but Michigan Athletics is a machine. They win consistently in every sport , men and women's, in which they field a team.
And the University of Michigan is an academic powerhouse which excels in every way possible. It's student athletes are expected to perform both on the field and in the classroom. And they matriculate to go on to lead lives of distinction.
Duke only wins in basketball while Kentucky and Kansas are great in hoops but, really, nothing else.
Taken as a whole I would rather be U of M than KU or UK.
Michigan and Ohio State are in their own special class. Neither is a Blue Blood but both are consistently highly competitive ,and in the national conversation, in most sports . They are both schools that kids and their families are interested in . As such , these two can reasonably compete in recruiting for the best athletes year in and year out.
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Michigan and Ohio State are in their own special class. Neither is a Blue Blood but both are consistently highly competitive ,and in the national conversation, in most sports . They are both schools that kids and their families are interested in . As such , these two can reasonably compete in recruiting for the best athletes year in and year out.
They are blue bloods in FB. Everything else is a minor sport... :)
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"For me, it was the crucible of war. Jumping out of an aircraft to operate deep inside bad guy land with 7 other Ranger-trained warriors for two weeks at a time strips away the superficial, the pretensions, and the gilded edges."
Good Lord.
As a currently serving, 29 years in, Army soldier this is.........really something.
All day, every day I work, serve with sailors, soldiers, airmen, marines, USCG in what is called in the military a "Joint" environment. You can imagine the experiences these men and women have had in the last 18 years. Not one of them talks like the quote above. Inconceivable. I'm sure Jon served with distinction but as a service member I'm embarrassed that comments like that could be seen to reflect on myself and the people Ive served with.
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Thx for saying that coffee, i would hope so. Read his post on the superbar “For the Scoop Pilots” quite certain the fact that it has a grand total of 0 responses says it all.
Thank you for serving.
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Thanks for your service coffee. Glad your 'carrying a weapon and on the wall'. Post more often.
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"For me, it was the crucible of war. Jumping out of an aircraft to operate deep inside bad guy land with 7 other Ranger-trained warriors for two weeks at a time strips away the superficial, the pretensions, and the gilded edges."
Good Lord.
As a currently serving, 29 years in, Army soldier this is.........really something.
All day, every day I work, serve with sailors, soldiers, airmen, marines, USCG in what is called in the military a "Joint" environment. You can imagine the experiences these men and women have had in the last 18 years. Not one of them talks like the quote above. Inconceivable. I'm sure Jon served with distinction but as a service member I'm embarrassed that comments like that could be seen to reflect on myself and the people Ive served with.
Great post. And THANKS for your service!
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Thanks to you, Keefe, and all other service members for your service.
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Thanks to you, Keefe, and all other service members for your service.
+1000
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How do you know if someone didn't go to Harvard? Don't worry, their jealousy and anger at the unfairness of life will tell you.
And when is the last time Michigan football won something of consequence? Does a National Championship under Lloyd Carr count?
When is the last time a Congregation of Holy Cross school won anything of consequence? How you say...Ronald Reagan era...
Half a title before anyone on the current team was born. Bravo. Let us know when Big Blue makes the Big Ten title game. Of course, they’d have to beat Ohio State first, for just the third time since 2000.
Now, about that coaching search. Would they really go with Juwan Howard??
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Thanks to you, Keefe, and all other service members for your service.
that's a dittos and a big 10-4 over here
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Did y'all see the Curb Your Enthusiasm in which Larry refused to thank the veteran for his service?
It was really funny.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/RealPitino/status/1129747556400095234?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
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Agreed, thanks to Jon and Coffee for serving.
With regard to Jon’s hubris and his graduate degrees, nobody gives a crape except his buddies who seem to lap it up like puppy dogs.
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Did y'all see the Curb Your Enthusiasm in which Larry refused to thank the veteran for his service?
It was really funny.
loved that one! ;D ;D ;D
It's coming back - I can't wait.
RIP Marty Funkhouser.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPquarz16wQ
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPquarz16wQ
Who can we foist Wojo onto?
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Ed Cooley legitimate candidate at Michigan
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1130569643184336904
@chrisgrenham
49m49 minutes ago
More Chris Grenham Retweeted Jon Rothstein
Worth noting here that the search firm hired by Michigan is led by Gene DiFilippo. DeFilippo was the Athletic Director at Boston College when Ed Cooley was an assistant coach for the Eagles. #pcbb
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Ed Cooley legitimate candidate at Michigan
https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/1130569643184336904
@chrisgrenham
49m49 minutes ago
More Chris Grenham Retweeted Jon Rothstein
Worth noting here that the search firm hired by Michigan is led by Gene DiFilippo. DeFilippo was the Athletic Director at Boston College when Ed Cooley was an assistant coach for the Eagles. #pcbb
Cooley would do well at Michigan.
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Jeff Goodman @GoodmanHoops
Ed Cooley was expected to meet with Michigan AD Warde Manuel today, Juwan Howard tomorrow. Luke Yaklich interviewed on Friday. The plan is to have a new coach in place by the end of the week, sources told @Stadium.
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He gowne, hey?
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He gowne, hey?
Providence should hire Yaklich
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Cooley has been at PC for eight seasons. In that time, he has never finished higher than a tie for third in the BE, and has won a grand total of one NCAA tournament game. His record at PC has been up and down, rather than a gradual but consistent upward trajectory. That earns him considerable respect on this board, and makes him a candidate for a high-profile job at Michigan.
And people are complaining that Wojo is underachieving?
FWIW - I like Cooley; he is a decent coach. But I would take Wojo over him any day of the week.
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Testify.
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Cooley has led PC to their best period of sustained success since the 70s. Wojo has yet to catch up to the coach he took over for. I personally think Cooley is the better coach at this point. Wojo is younger and has time to catch up
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I didn't realize that Cooley is only 49.
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Wojo has yet to catch up to the coach he took over for.
Wojo took over for a coach that went 17-15 his final season, left the cupboard bare, and whose teams had significant off-court problems because he cuts corners on admissions to get results on the court.
Wojo is doing well, and I look forward to better post season results from his teams.
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Cooley has led PC to their best period of sustained success since the 70s. Wojo has yet to catch up to the coach he took over for. I personally think Cooley is the better coach at this point. Wojo is younger and has time to catch up
Going from Beilein to Cooley on the offensive side of the ball would be a shock to the system for Michigan fan
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Cooley not gowne, hey
https://www.providencejournal.com/sports/20190521/source-ed-cooley-staying-in-providence
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Cooley not gowne, hey
https://www.providencejournal.com/sports/20190521/source-ed-cooley-staying-in-providence
https://twitter.com/coachcooleypc/status/1130866329706270725?s=21
IT’S AN EXCITING TIME IN FRIARTOWN!!!
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He gowne, hey?
Nope
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But if MU just fires Wojo, the great coaches will be lined up competing to get hired.
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Wojo took over for a coach that went 17-15 his final season, left the cupboard bare, and whose teams had significant off-court problems because he cuts corners on admissions to get results on the court.
Wojo is doing well, and I look forward to better post season results from his teams.
I don't disagree at all
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I don't disagree at all
Please reference all the writings of Ners for a counterpoint. Thanks.
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Cooley not gowne, hey
https://www.providencejournal.com/sports/20190521/source-ed-cooley-staying-in-providence
but I thought coaches couldn't wait to get out of the Big East? Especially when a beyond high major, Oxford and the Sorbonne combined institution like Michigan came calling.
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but I thought coaches couldn't wait to get out of the Big East? Especially when a beyond high major, Oxford, Cambridge and the Sorbonne combined institution like Michigan came calling.
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but I thought coaches couldn't wait to get out of the Big East? Especially when a beyond high major, Oxford and the Sorbonne combined institution like Michigan came calling.
Cooley is a Providence native. So, he’s just staying home.
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Ironic part about Juwan Howard possible getting the Michigan job...My buddy from high school was the senior team captain at UM the year the Fab Five were freshman. Of the five of them--Howard, King, Weber, Rose and Jackson--my friend said Howard was the most hot-headed, broke team rules all the time and constantly threatened to transfer when the coaches tried to discipline him. Pretty funny that of the five of them he'd end up being UM's coach some day.
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Cooley has been at PC for eight seasons. In that time, he has never finished higher than a tie for third in the BE, and has won a grand total of one NCAA tournament game. His record at PC has been up and down, rather than a gradual but consistent upward trajectory. That earns him considerable respect on this board, and makes him a candidate for a high-profile job at Michigan.
And people are complaining that Wojo is underachieving?
FWIW - I like Cooley; he is a decent coach. But I would take Wojo over him any day of the week.
Thanks for Enlightening me.
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Wojo took over for a coach that went 17-15 his final season, left the cupboard bare, and whose teams had significant off-court problems because he cuts corners on admissions to get results on the court.
Wojo is doing well, and I look forward to better post season results from his teams.
The guy collapsed lasy year and has yet to win a Dance game. Good definition of "Wojo is doing well"
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The guy collapsed lasy year and has yet to win a Dance game. Good definition of "Wojo is doing well"
You should protest Wojo by not following the program anymore.
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You should protest Wojo by not following the program anymore.
Upvote post.
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Ironic part about Juwan Howard possible getting the Michigan job...My buddy from high school was the senior team captain at UM the year the Fab Five were freshman. Of the five of them--Howard, King, Weber, Rose and Jackson--my friend said Howard was the most hot-headed, broke team rules all the time and constantly threatened to transfer when the coaches tried to discipline him. Pretty funny that of the five of them he'd end up being UM's coach some day.
Freddie Hunter or Kirk Taylor?
I was impressed with Howard going pro after his junior year but spending his rookie year finishing his degree during the season so he could walk with King and Jackson. However, as a coach, he has no experience and the Fab Five has very little cache with recruits today. The rivalry with Michigan State will go up a notch, many are still mad over Howard wiping his ass on the center court S after beating State his freshman year.
I wonder if they're actually interviewing Howard for the #1 assistant position and giving Yaklich the HC job.
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Ironic part about Juwan Howard possible getting the Michigan job...My buddy from high school was the senior team captain at UM the year the Fab Five were freshman. Of the five of them--Howard, King, Weber, Rose and Jackson--my friend said Howard was the most hot-headed, broke team rules all the time and constantly threatened to transfer when the coaches tried to discipline him. Pretty funny that of the five of them he'd end up being UM's coach some day.
Young adults being unhappy and hard to coach......the more things change the more they stay the same.
Happens everywhere and with players of every ability level.
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I wonder if they're actually interviewing Howard for the #1 assistant position and giving Yaklich the HC job.
I'm sure they could offer that, but why would Howard leave an assistant's job in the NBA - where he's generated some interest as a head coach with several teams - to be Luke Yaklich's assistant? Seems like a big step backwards.
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Excellent news that Cooley & Co got their long term contract. One of my favorite coaches in the conference. Always enjoy watching our games against Providence.
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Freddie Hunter or Kirk Taylor?
I was impressed with Howard going pro after his junior year but spending his rookie year finishing his degree during the season so he could walk with King and Jackson. However, as a coach, he has no experience and the Fab Five has very little cache with recruits today. The rivalry with Michigan State will go up a notch, many are still mad over Howard wiping his ass on the center court S after beating State his freshman year.
I wonder if they're actually interviewing Howard for the #1 assistant position and giving Yaklich the HC job.
He’s been a NBA assistant for quite awhile and is highly regarded in the league. He hasn’t been the lead dog but I think he’s got the chops for it
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Seems like with this late date, and the list of coaches getting thin, they should give yaklich the interim job and either make him permanent or run a coaching search next year.
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He’s been a NBA assistant for quite awhile and is highly regarded in the league. He hasn’t been the lead dog but I think he’s got the chops for it
little known fact: Howard is the only member of the Fab Five to win a championship at the college or top professional level.
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Freddie Hunter or Kirk Taylor?
I was impressed with Howard going pro after his junior year but spending his rookie year finishing his degree during the season so he could walk with King and Jackson. However, as a coach, he has no experience and the Fab Five has very little cache with recruits today. The rivalry with Michigan State will go up a notch, many are still mad over Howard wiping his ass on the center court S after beating State his freshman year.
I wonder if they're actually interviewing Howard for the #1 assistant position and giving Yaklich the HC job.
Freddie Hunter. Fellow ‘87 grad of U of D High - same alma mater as Ike Eke (and Cassius Winston).
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little known fact: Howard is the only member of the Fab Five to win a championship at the college or professional level.
Even littler known fact: Jimmy King won a CBA title with the Quad City Thunder.
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Freddie Hunter. Fellow ‘87 grad of U of D High - same alma mater as Ike Eke (and Cassius Winston).
from Intramural champ to starting for UM in the same year. The guy was a baller!
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from Intramural champ to starting for UM in the same year. The guy was a baller!
Yep, it was fun to watch him play. He’s also one of the nicest guys you will ever meet.
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Even littler known fact: Jimmy King won a CBA title with the Quad City Thunder.
The only Quad City we recognize in this house is DJ's.
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Looks like the Michigan job is Howard's if he wants it.
Jon Rothstein @JonRothstein
Sources: Michigan has offered its head coaching position to Miami Heat assistant Juwan Howard. The two sides have begun negotiations. Deal remains far from done.
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El. Oh. El.
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El. Oh. El.
Y?
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Michigan following the Georgetown-SJU, Ewing-Mullin paradigm. Something to contemplate in a few years when Wojo leaves for Duke.
1. I doubt Wade will be interested.
2. Most places do not get their first choice.
3. Wardle
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If the deal gets done, I think Howard is a bad hire for Michigan, and I’d be worried if I was a Wolverines fan. The guy has zero head coaching experience, and, more importantly, zero experience coaching at the college level. You don’t exactly have to do in-home visits and bust ass to get to high school and AAU games on your day off when you’re an NBA assistant.
The safe hire would’ve been Yaklich. Even Cooley would’ve been better than this, and I think Cooley’s a good coach for where he’s at. If Howard takes the job, I’ll be surprised if he’s still there in five years.
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Michigan following the Georgetown-SJU, Ewing-Mullin paradigm. Something to contemplate in a few years when Wojo leaves for Duke.
1. I doubt Wade will be interested.
2. Most places do not get their first choice.
3. Wardle
Wardle is a far more legit hire than the other three. Proven college coach that has rebuilt two programs & made the NCAA tournament. I know he doesn't excite people, but he's trending toward a high major job.
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Michigan following the Georgetown-SJU, Ewing-Mullin paradigm. Something to contemplate in a few years when Wojo leaves for Duke.
1. I doubt Wade will be interested.
2. Most places do not get their first choice.
3. Wardle
I don’t want Wade coaching MU. I’ll take a scrappy college basketball lifer like Buzz, Crean, Barnes, Beard, etc. any day over a former NBA star with no college coaching experience.
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Wardle is a far more legit hire than the other three. Proven college coach that has rebuilt two programs & made the NCAA tournament. I know he doesn't excite people, but he's trending toward a high major job.
I agree. IMO, when Wojo finally leaves, Wardle is the likeliest choice. Now, IMO, Wojo is here until the Duke job opens. I know others disagree and that is fine. But in 5 years, Wardle might look like a great choice.
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Wardle is a far more legit hire than the other three. Proven college coach that has rebuilt two programs & made the NCAA tournament. I know he doesn't excite people, but he's trending toward a high major job.
I don't get the anti-Wardle sentiment here. The guy set UWGB up for a tourney appearance and took Bradley to the NCAA tournament with a strong showing against an eventual Final Four squad in the first round. He also earned his chops as an assistant. I'd be more than happy with Wardle at MU.
I think Ewing may work out at Georgetown but obviously, Mullin didn't at St. John's. Nor did Clyde Drexler at Houston or Avery Johnson at Alabama. Penny Hardaway is certainly burning it up (making it rain) on the recruiting trail but we'll see how he can coach all of that high priced talent.
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I don't get the anti-Wardle sentiment here. The guy set UWGB up for a tourney appearance and took Bradley to the NCAA tournament with a strong showing against an eventual Final Four squad in the first round. He also earned his chops as an assistant. I'd be more than happy with Wardle at MU.
I think Ewing may work out at Georgetown but obviously, Mullin didn't at St. John's. Nor did Clyde Drexler at Houston or Avery Johnson at Alabama. Penny Hardaway is certainly burning it up (making it rain) on the recruiting trail but we'll see how he can coach all of that high priced talent.
Avery Johnson went to Southern, not Alabama. Dale Brown kicked himself for looking past Johnson and signing Fess Irvin back in the day.
The biggest strikes against Wardle are:
1) recruiting -- a major program has to take a leap of faith that he can get that done despite little/no evidence of his ability to recruit at a high level.
2) he hasn't won enough: He won a tourney last season; hooray for catching a bit of lightning in a bottle in a poor league. Yet Bradley finished a 9-9 in the MVC last season, was 9-9 the year before, 7-11 before that. He built something at UWGB -- something that led him to ..... Bradley.
There is little evidence that he has a high ceiling as a coach. He still has time to make that case.
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Concurring on Wardle as a potential high-major candidate, particularly MU. His connections to Chicagoland, both as a HS player, and as a recruiter, are keys to MU's basketball and enrollment success.
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Concurring on Wardle as a potential high-major candidate, particularly MU. His connections to Chicagoland, both as a HS player, and as a recruiter, are keys to MU's basketball and enrollment success.
Wardle currently has 0 players from Cook, DuPage or Lake County on his roster at Bradley.
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Figurin' Scott Merritt follows Woj. Has obvious skills as an assistant. Probably is familiar with recruitin' and has the drive and energy shown as a playa. Just hasta 'member ta walk inta the locker room with urinals, hey?
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wojo should be here till we can do better. the michigan AD stated he wanted a coach with a proven track record of winning in college basketball...guess that didn't work out. MU isn't going to attract anyone michigan can't...
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Figurin' Scott Merritt follows Woj. Has obvious skills as an assistant. Probably is familiar with recruitin' and has the drive and energy shown as a playa. Just hasta 'member ta walk inta the locker room with urinals, hey?
I would hope that Scott shows more drive and energy as a coach
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If the deal gets done, I think Howard is a bad hire for Michigan, and I’d be worried if I was a Wolverines fan. The guy has zero head coaching experience, and, more importantly, zero experience coaching at the college level. You don’t exactly have to do in-home visits and bust ass to get to high school and AAU games on your day off when you’re an NBA assistant.
The safe hire would’ve been Yaklich. Even Cooley would’ve been better than this, and I think Cooley’s a good coach for where he’s at. If Howard takes the job, I’ll be surprised if he’s still there in five years.
If you work for Spo & Riley you likely don't have days off.
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Avery Johnson went to Southern, not Alabama. Dale Brown kicked himself for looking past Johnson and signing Fess Irvin back in the day.
The biggest strikes against Wardle are:
1) recruiting -- a major program has to take a leap of faith that he can get that done despite little/no evidence of his ability to recruit at a high level.
2) he hasn't won enough: He won a tourney last season, hooray for catching a bit of lightning in a bottle in a poor league. Yet Bradley finished a 9-9 in the MVC last season, was 9-9 the year before, 7-11 before that. He built something at UWGB -- something that led him to ..... Bradley.
There is little evidence that he has a high ceiling as a coach. He still has time to make that case.
Bradley is a significant step up, and the MVC is one of the better mid-majors. I remember when Buzz left, one of the sentiments regarding him was to prove it somewhere other than GB. He's doing that. Historically, Bradley is on par with programs like Wichita State & Creighton. If he can keep them near the top of the MVC for 2-3 years, he'll likely be moving on up again.
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Avery Johnson went to Southern, not Alabama. Dale Brown kicked himself for looking past Johnson and signing Fess Irvin back in the day.
The biggest strikes against Wardle are:
1) recruiting -- a major program has to take a leap of faith that he can get that done despite little/no evidence of his ability to recruit at a high level.
2) he hasn't won enough: He won a tourney last season; hooray for catching a bit of lightning in a bottle in a poor league. Yet Bradley finished a 9-9 in the MVC last season, was 9-9 the year before, 7-11 before that. He built something at UWGB -- something that led him to ..... Bradley.
There is little evidence that he has a high ceiling as a coach. He still has time to make that case.
I'm not just referring to people taking over at their alma maters but former NBA players in general.
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Looks like the Michigan job is Howard's if he wants it.
Jon Rothstein @JonRothstein
Sources: Michigan has offered its head coaching position to Miami Heat assistant Juwan Howard. The two sides have begun negotiations. Deal remains far from done.
(http://i.imgur.com/Jpi9CvA.gif)
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Bradley is a significant step up, and the MVC is one of the better mid-majors. I remember when Buzz left, one of the sentiments regarding him was to prove it somewhere other than GB. He's doing that. Historically, Bradley is on par with programs like Wichita State & Creighton. If he can keep them near the top of the MVC for 2-3 years, he'll likely be moving on up again.
Bradley has not been on par w Creighton in decades. Bradley has 2 NCAA bids in the last 30 years (14 for CU).
Wardle has time, but to this point he has an overall losing record in the MVC and hasn't finished higher than 5th in the league. Next season is his chance to make the leap though.
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Bradley is a significant step up, and the MVC is one of the better mid-majors. I remember when Buzz left, one of the sentiments regarding him was to prove it somewhere other than GB. He's doing that. Historically, Bradley is on par with programs like Wichita State & Creighton. If he can keep them near the top of the MVC for 2-3 years, he'll likely be moving on up again.
The Valley has been bad the last two years, worst it’s been in decades. Bradley hasn’t been consistently good since Hersey Hawkins was there. If Wardle didn’t have ties to Marquette, no one would want him as the next coach here.
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Let's also be clear, Bradley finished tied for 5th in a very down MVC. They got hot in the MVC tourney and won the at large bid. This season was not a convincing bullet point on the resume for me. Wardle may get there eventually, but I would be disappointed if we hired him as HC at this point.
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I think the only reason people want/like wardle is because he's an alum and they feel that would bring stability. Sure, maybe it would, but it would also probably bring less than acceptable results. You don't hire a Coach just for stability reasons, if he isn't going to produce at a high level.
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Wardle is not necessarily who I want. After watching the high level hires this off-season, I think that he, or someone like him, is who Marquette would likely get. Michigan, UCLA, SJU all thought they would get their first choice. Why should Marquette expect different?
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Wardle is not necessarily who I want. After watching the high level hires this off-season, I think that he, or someone like him, is who Marquette would likely get. Michigan, UCLA, SJU all thought they would get their first choice. Why should Marquette expect different?
Michigan, UCLA and SJU didn’t get their first choices in part because they all went after guys who’d had significant success as high major head coaches.
Historically, Marquette has gone after high major assistants. I don’t know why that would change the next time we look for a coach, unless perhaps Wardle has more success at Bradley.
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Michigan, UCLA and SJU didn’t get their first choices in part because they all went after guys who’d had significant success as high major head coaches.
Historically, Marquette has gone after high major assistants. I don’t know why that would change the next time we look for a coach, unless perhaps Wardle has more success at Bradley.
A number of posters here believe that's exactly the type of coach Marquette should/can get
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I think the only reason people want/like wardle is because he's an alum and they feel that would bring stability. Sure, maybe it would, but it would also probably bring less than acceptable results. You don't hire a Coach just for stability reasons, if he isn't going to produce at a high level.
Wojo is not producing at a high level, so that should play into your philosophy.
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(http://i.imgur.com/Jpi9CvA.gif)
Keefe must be conflicted by Juwan's statement this evening that Michigan will continue to develop young men "on the court, in the classroom, and in the community."
After all, when it's Marquette pursuing that M.O....it's because it is a foundational "excuse" for mediocrity.
Michigan issues this statement and it's another sign of the "world~class" academic utopia that is Ann Arbor.
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Michigan, UCLA and SJU didn’t get their first choices in part because they all went after guys who’d had significant success as high major head coaches.
And yet some Scoopers think all we have to do is say, "Come and get it!" and the best of the best established NCAA high-major coaches will be knockin' down our door.
Those same Scoopers would have been outraged if we had hired somebody with the kind of resume Beard had at the time Texas Tech hired him.
Our best coach since Al was a yokel who had one bad season as a low-major head coach and otherwise was a vagabond assistant.
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And yet some Scoopers think all we have to do is say, "Come and get it!" and the best of the best established NCAA high-major coaches will be knockin' down our door.
Those same Scoopers would have been outraged if we had hired somebody with the kind of resume Beard had at the time Texas Tech hired him.
Our best coach since Al was a yokel who had one bad season as a low-major head coach and otherwise was a vagabond assistant.
Yup.
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And yet some Scoopers think all we have to do is say, "Come and get it!" and the best of the best established NCAA high-major coaches will be knockin' down our door.
Those same Scoopers would have been outraged if we had hired somebody with the kind of resume Beard had at the time Texas Tech hired him.
Our best coach since Al was a yokel who had one bad season as a low-major head coach and otherwise was a vagabond assistant.
All true - except that those who consider Buzz a yokel do it at their own peril.
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All true - except that those who consider Buzz a yokel do it at their own peril.
Well, he's not gonna reach through the computer and hit me, and he isn't gonna shoot my dog, so I don't think it's very perilous for me to do so.
If you don't like "yokel," how about if I just say he was a "nobody"? It's a credit to him that a guy who nobody had heard of and who had accomplished nothing of any note in college basketball went on to be a very fine coach.
Let's talk turkey, Lenny ... when Wojo leaves or is fired, if we replace him with a guy who was 14-17 at a Sun Belt school in his only season as a college head coach and otherwise had been an assistant at 6 schools, never staying more than 4 years at any of them, will you be saying, "Wow! I can't believe we were lucky enough to land that guy!"
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And yet some Scoopers think all we have to do is say, "Come and get it!" and the best of the best established NCAA high-major coaches will be knockin' down our door.
Those same Scoopers would have been outraged if we had hired somebody with the kind of resume Beard had at the time Texas Tech hired him.
Our best coach since Al was a yokel who had one bad season as a low-major head coach and otherwise was a vagabond assistant.
Selena Gomez? Can she coach defense?
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Well, he's not gonna reach through the computer and hit me, and he isn't gonna shoot my dog, so I don't think it's very perilous for me to do so.
If you don't like "yokel," how about if I just say he was a "nobody"? It's a credit to him that a guy who nobody had heard of and who had accomplished nothing of any note in college basketball went on to be a very fine coach.
Let's talk turkey, Lenny ... when Wojo leaves or is fired, if we replace him with a guy who was 14-17 at a Sun Belt school in his only season as a college head coach and otherwise had been an assistant at 6 schools, never staying more than 4 years at any of them, will you be saying, "Wow! I can't believe we were lucky enough to land that guy!"
I am fine with Yokel. Describes the circumstance well.
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for a school that still has the Fab Five cloud looming Pitino is the last guy they would consider.
That said, UM has as much money to spend as any program in the country. Big Ten network money, huge donors (e.g., Stephen Ross). Depending on how Brad Stevens is feeling after the disaster that is the past season UM could make a serious push for him.
The cloud was so thick they accidentally hired one of the members.
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There’s more to coaching than Xs and Os and I think that’s where Wardle is unqualified.
There’s a more well known alum, who served as an MU assistant for a couple years, has a phenomenal Wisconsin bloodline and played several years in the NBA. I’d rather roll the dice with Travis Diener than Brian Wardle.
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The cloud was so thick they accidentally hired one of the members.
Great line.
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There’s more to coaching than Xs and Os and I think that’s where Wardle is unqualified.
There’s a more well known alum, who served as an MU assistant for a couple years, has a phenomenal Wisconsin bloodline and played several years in the NBA. I’d rather roll the dice with Travis Diener than Brian Wardle.
I just do not see either of them being successful recruiters.
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Mite bee tyme wee hire a brotha, hey?
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No way U of M hires Wojo. In fact, the word "Wojo" will never ever be mentioned inside the Fleming building.
Mark Schlissel is a gifted leader with a significant record of world-class accomplishment. He would never make such a pedestrian mistake.
You are correct. He made a worse one.
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You are correct. He made a worse one.
a very interesting comment in The Athletic's article:
"Howard’s hiring at U-M makes him the lone black men’s basketball coach in the 14-school Big Ten Conference. The league has been without one since Rutgers fired Eddie Jordan in March 2016."
Meanwhile, in the Big East there are five (Anderson, Ewing, Leito, Jordan, Cooley). It kind of makes me think of the MU hire with Kreiger and now Duffy being the only female WBB coaches in the conference.
This hire could succeed, but I see it more likely blowing up a la Mullin.
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It might succeed no doubt. But the track record of coaches in similar situations isn’t great. No other major program would have had Howard on their radar. The only reason UM did is because he’s an alum. And that’s a red flag.
Very different circumstances than the Harbaugh hire.
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It might succeed no doubt. But the track record of coaches in similar situations isn’t great. No other major program would have had Howard on their radar. The only reason UM did is because he’s an alum. And that’s a red flag.
Very different circumstances than the Harbaugh hire.
Very much agree on the bolded. Sure, Howard might be great. This hire looks similar to Georgetown bringing in Ewing, except that Ewing was objectively three times the candidate Howard is by the time he was hired. Timing and the current coaching market generally both worked against Michigan here.
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Very much agree on the bolded. Sure, Howard might be great. This hire looks similar to Georgetown bringing in Ewing, except that Ewing was objectively three times the candidate Howard is by the time he was hired. Timing and the current coaching market generally both worked against Michigan here.
Which is why I think promoting the assistant would have been the best choice.
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Mite bee tyme wee hire a brotha, hey?
I agree with this analysis.
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wee donut half n opnng.
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Mite bee tyme wee hire a brotha, hey?
My brother was a really good basketball player in high school, but I don't think he has enough experience to be a college basketball coach. Thanks for thinking of him, though.
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John beilein