MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: ZMovieman on February 21, 2019, 04:22:46 PM
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What we all knew was inevitable seems to be ramping back up to reality again.
It marks the first legal step the league has taken to lower the draft age, even though there had been talks of doing so for some time. The goal is to have the new rule in effect by the 2022 draft.
The three-year buffer before the rule would go into place, if passed, is to prepare NBA teams for the change in terms of draft picks, rosters and any other ripple effects lowering the draft age will cause.
http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/nba-submits-proposal-to-lower-draft-age-from-19-to-18-report-says/a3ga5s5yqw101pwyc8s8z66jp (http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/news/nba-submits-proposal-to-lower-draft-age-from-19-to-18-report-says/a3ga5s5yqw101pwyc8s8z66jp)
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Thank the LORD. It’ll end 31.74% of all arguments on scoop.
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Thank the LORD. It’ll end 31.74% of all arguments on scoop.
No it won't!
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I would love to know if this was in the works for an announcement months later or today....low and behold I have a pre-scheduled call with NBA in 90 minutes and you can bet I'm asking the question.
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That first draft will be insane. Essentially double the lottery talent. Don't trade your 1st rounders for cap space just yet.
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That first draft will be insane. Essentially double the lottery talent. Don't trade your 1st rounders for cap space just yet.
And a bunch of busts will be drafted, too....going to be epic.
Another win for Condoleeza Rice's commission that was crapped on. This is exactly what should be done, let the college kids play college...let those that think they are being exploited, go get your money and watch the NBA pull all their hair out in trying to figure out who is good and who is worth that draft pick. Going to be great, get out the popcorn.
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And a bunch of busts will be drafted, too....going to be epic.
Another win for Condoleeza Rice's commission that was crapped on. This is exactly what should be done, let the college kids play college...let those that think they are being exploited, go get your money and watch the NBA pull all their hair out in trying to figure out who is good and who is worth that draft pick. Going to be great, get out the popcorn.
Bingo.
Let the talented players play at the highest level.
Let the role players and late bloomers figure their game out and get rid of the bad arguments.
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What are the short-term impacts on the college game if this is implemented? Besides Coach Cal having to learn how to coach.
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And a bunch of busts will be drafted, too....going to be epic.
Another win for Condoleeza Rice's commission that was crapped on. This is exactly what should be done, let the college kids play college...let those that think they are being exploited, go get your money and watch the NBA pull all their hair out in trying to figure out who is good and who is worth that draft pick. Going to be great, get out the popcorn.
Busts are drafted from every level...HS, One and Done, 2 years, 4 years and 5 year players. But every draft provides 4-5 All Stars and this 2022 draft has the ability to provide 8-10 All Stars. That's where the value will come in. Imagine having a draft of
Ayton
Luka
Trae Young
Bagley
Wendall
Knox
PLUS
Zion
Cam
Ja
RJ
etc.
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And a bunch of busts will be drafted, too....going to be epic.
This is such patronizing nonsense.
These are 18-year-old (i.e. adult) men making their own decisions about the futures they wish to pursue. They should be allowed to do so and live with the consequences, good or bad, that come with it
Somehow, some of you believe 18 year olds are mature enough to enter the military where they might, you know, get sent off to war to kill people or be killed, but they can't handle a decision (and accept the risk) of when the enter the NBA draft.
Second, what evidence do you have that a kid drafted at 18 is more likely to be a bust than he would after a year of college? Because skimming through the past decade of drafts, there are a whole lot of one- (and even two-) and dones who were terrible NBA players.
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I wonder how many 5 star guys will just declare based on hype? I think at most there would be 3-5 guys each year who are nba ready right out of high school. Lol imagine quinerly declaring and getting drafted because of a high school mixtape. Guy isn't even ready for big minutes on a struggling nova
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FWIW, I also don't think we should be allowing 18 year olds to enlist. I'm not even sure I think 18 year olds should be allowed to vote. I think 18 was an arbitrary number that was picked a long time ago and is probably due for an update to match our current society.
That being said, I'm against the one and done rule. I also think that everyone would benefit if they moved towards a model similar to college hockey.
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I'd be fine reducing the age - let kids make their choice and live with it.
But just like the NBA essentially locks kids into their teams for 3 years, I would like to see kids who choose college to commit to a full four years.
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I'd be fine reducing the age - let kids make their choice and live with it.
But just like the NBA essentially locks kids into their teams for 3 years, I would like to see kids who choose college to commit to a full four years.
When you chose college, did you commit for 4 years?
If an employer offered you, say, $200K to join their company after your sophomore year, given that you could have always finished your schooling later over time, you would have turned it down?
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When you chose college, did you commit for 4 years?
If an employer offered you, say, $200K to join their company after your sophomore year, given that you could have always finished your schooling later over time, you would have turned it down?
If I had agreed beforehand to stay, yes.
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If I had agreed beforehand to stay, yes.
Not me! I'd tear up that "contract" in a second, just like every coach who goes from one school to another does.
Nebraska coach Tim Miller just caught a heap of heat for saying this when asked on a podcast about possibly being fired:
"If they fire me, they're still going to pay me. I'm still a millionaire."
It's all about the Benjamins, baby!
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Not me! I'd tear up that "contract" in a second, just like every coach who goes from one school to another does.
Nebraska coach Tim Miller just caught a heap of heat for saying this when asked on a podcast about possibly being fired:
"If they fire me, they're still going to pay me. I'm still a millionaire."
It's all about the Benjamins, baby!
So if a kid chooses to go to the NBA, you're OK with the league prohibiting him from moving around for 3 years.
If a kid chooses to enlist in the Army, you're OK with the Army holding him to his full 4-year tour of duty.
But if a kid chooses a 4-year free ride to college, he should just be able to tear up his agreement and jump ship whenever he wants?
lol
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That being said, I'm against the one and done rule. I also think that everyone would benefit if they moved towards a model similar to college hockey.
Yes! Been saying that for years. It would benefit all three interests (i.e. the league, the players and colleges).
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How many MU players returned to get their degee?
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So if a kid chooses to go to the NBA, you're OK with the league prohibiting him from moving around for 3 years.
If a kid chooses to enlist in the Army, you're OK with the Army holding him to his full 4-year tour of duty.
But if a kid chooses a 4-year free ride to college, he should just be able to tear up his agreement and jump ship whenever he wants?
lol
It’s not a 4-year free ride
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How many MU players returned to get their degee?
I know Doc did.
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It’s not a 4-year free ride
What college expenses do they pay for?
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So if a kid chooses to go to the NBA, you're OK with the league prohibiting him from moving around for 3 years.
If a kid chooses to enlist in the Army, you're OK with the Army holding him to his full 4-year tour of duty.
But if a kid chooses a 4-year free ride to college, he should just be able to tear up his agreement and jump ship whenever he wants?
In the first case, "the league" isn't preventing him from doing anything. The collective bargaining agreement between the league and the player's association is. It's something both parties agreed to.
In the second case, the military is just different and will always be that way.
In the final case, this is likely not enforceable. I don't believe you can actually prevent people from getting a job. The only way it would work is if it is part of the collective bargaining agreement.
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In the first case, "the league" isn't preventing him from doing anything. The collective bargaining agreement between the league and the player's association is. It's something both parties agreed to.
In the second case, the military is just different and will always be that way.
In the final case, this is likely not enforceable. I don't believe you can actually prevent people from getting a job. The only way it would work is if it is part of the collective bargaining agreement.
Then make it part of the collective bargaining agreement.
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What college expenses do they pay for?
Most athletic scholarships are not four-year full rides. And those that are allow outs for both sides (i.e. the Big 10 four-year scholie allows a student to leave for any "bona fide" reason, while it allows the school to terminate for a host of reasons).
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Then make it part of the collective bargaining agreement.
I don't think either the league or its players would have any interest in doing that.
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I don't think either the league or its players would have any interest in doing that.
Probably not. I'm just talking about the way it ought to be.
Make a decision, make it clear in writing what the agreement is, and live with the consequences. And I think both the player and the school should be bound by the full 4 years, unless they mutually agree to a transfer/termination.
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Ok...going on a tangent here....
When I read the thread title, mind thought how great it is that we are talking about the NBA draft and not the military. Nothing against the military....what a great country that can field the best in the world on a volunteer basis.
I remember watching my folks follow the draft wondering if my oldest brother's birthday would come up...I think they stopped the callup before all the selection years were used...so he wasn't in jeopardy.
Better to have the young men of the world trading basketball shots rather than the alternative, right.
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Why would people not be okay with a kid who is ready for the NBA right out of high school being forced to play 1 year in college, but then be just fine with forcing a kid to stay in school if he's ready for the NBA after 1 year and want to force kids who choose to attend college to be there for 3 or 4 years? What's the difference?
Trae Young is averaging 17 points and 8 assists in the NBA but we would be forcing him to remain in college this year, next year, and maybe even the year after that if those rules were in place. Seems even worse to me.
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Why would people not be okay with a kid who is ready for the NBA right out of high school being forced to play 1 year in college, but then be just fine with forcing a kid to stay in school if he's ready for the NBA after 1 year and want to force kids who choose to attend college to be there for 3 or 4 years? What's the difference?
The difference is that he made his choice. Just like some kids might choose to go to the NBA with the understanding that they would be bound by their contract for three years, or other kids might choose to enlist in the army with the understanding that they would be bound by their enlistment agreement. All I am talking about is making a choice and sticking with the consequences.
Sorry if that sounds so terribly unreasonable.
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The difference is that he made his choice. Just like some kids might choose to go to the NBA with the understanding that they would be bound by their contract for three years, or other kids might choose to enlist in the army with the understanding that they would be bound by their enlistment agreement. All I am talking about is making a choice and sticking with the consequences.
Sorry if that sounds so terribly unreasonable.
Except that a guy like Trae Young wouldn't have the choice to go to the NBA out of high school because he wasn't ready. If a high school senior should have the choice to go to the NBA if he's ready, so should a freshman in college after proving himself for a year.
I can just see it now. The next Trae Young goes to college because if he doesn't he's going over to some foreign country at 18 years old after not being drafted, dominates college basketball for a year, suffers a minor knee sprain, and the country goes crazy about how he needs to sit himself down for the next 2.5 years so he doesn't ruin his millions of dollars coming his way.
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The difference is that he made his choice. Just like some kids might choose to go to the NBA with the understanding that they would be bound by their contract for three years, or other kids might choose to enlist in the army with the understanding that they would be bound by their enlistment agreement. All I am talking about is making a choice and sticking with the consequences.
Sorry if that sounds so terribly unreasonable.
But it's a completely unreasonable choice. You are preventing someone from making a living at their craft because they weren't deemed good enough as an 18 year old. So now they have to wait until they're 22? What if they're good enough at 19? That's unreasonable.
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Second, what evidence do you have that a kid drafted at 18 is more likely to be a bust than he would after a year of college? Because skimming through the past decade of drafts, there are a whole lot of one- (and even two-) and dones who were terrible NBA players.
Isn't that why the NBA put the rule in in the first place? A year of watching kids play against college talent gives you more information and a better basis for drafting than having just seen them play against high schoolers.
What's your definition of a bust? After the middle of the first round I would think you're more likely to draft a bench guy than a solid NBA starter anyway.
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But it's a completely unreasonable choice. You are preventing someone from making a living at their craft because they weren't deemed good enough as an 18 year old. So now they have to wait until they're 22? What if they're good enough at 19? That's unreasonable.
Why is it so unreasonable to set rules to define when someone is “ready”? If I want to be a doctor, I have to go to medical school, and then pass certain exams. But what if I happen to be a prodigy who aces every exam without going to med school, who performs all the necessary procedures? Do I still have to jump through hoops that others established, even if I might be the next prodigy doctor?
Answer - yes, I still have to jump through those hoops. The horror! The unreasonableness!
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Why is it so unreasonable to set rules to define when someone is “ready”? If I want to be a doctor, I have to go to medical school, and then pass certain exams. But what if I happen to be a prodigy who aces every exam without going to med school, who performs all the necessary procedures? Do I still have to jump through hoops that others established, even if I might be the next prodigy doctor?
You undermine your own argument when you say an 18 year old can be a professional basketball player right out of high school, but a basketball player who has not only completed high school but an additional year of college, cannot be.
And the comparisons to a medical school education really aren't valid because you don't need any sort of educational degree to be a basketball player. You simply have to be good at basketball.
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You undermine your own argument when you say an 18 year old can be a professional basketball player right out of high school, but a basketball player who has not only completed high school but an additional year of college, cannot be.
And the comparisons to a medical school education really aren't valid because you don't need any sort of educational degree to be a basketball player. You simply have to be good at basketball.
I am simply talking about establishing rules, giving people choices, and then letting them live with the consequences. It really isn’t as hard as you seem to think it is.
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I am simply talking about establishing rules, giving people choices, and then letting them live with the consequences. It really isn’t as hard as you seem to think it is.
So a doctor certification is so there are not unqualified people doing harm for patients.
A basketball rule is to prevent what harm?
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So a doctor certification is so there are not unqualified people doing harm for patients.
A basketball rule is to prevent what harm?
Who said anything about harm?
Lots of occupations have rules, many of which have nothing to do with life or death situations involving patients.
Are you in favor of eliminating basketball rules altogether then? You know – because eliminating rules wont harm anyone.
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Busts are drafted from every level...HS, One and Done, 2 years, 4 years and 5 year players. But every draft provides 4-5 All Stars and this 2022 draft has the ability to provide 8-10 All Stars. That's where the value will come in. Imagine having a draft of
Ayton
Luka
Trae Young
Bagley
Wendall
Knox
PLUS
Zion
Cam
Ja
RJ
etc.
Yes, and I stated that. You will have an infusion of these young guys which is great. But there will be more misses for sure than today because today they rely on one year of college ball. Look at the some of the kids at Kansas and Kentucky that going into this year they said were 1st rounders and have already slipped to the 2nd round based on their play this year. That margin for error just got smaller.
The sooner we get kids out that have no desire to play college ball and are there for a pit stop, the better. Let them be the NBA's situation to deal with.
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Most athletic scholarships are not four-year full rides. And those that are allow outs for both sides (i.e. the Big 10 four-year scholie allows a student to leave for any "bona fide" reason, while it allows the school to terminate for a host of reasons).
LIMITED reasons, not a host of reasons. Most of the major conferences guarantee the scholarship for 4 years, the wiggle room to get out is limited.
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The difference is that he made his choice. Just like some kids might choose to go to the NBA with the understanding that they would be bound by their contract for three years, or other kids might choose to enlist in the army with the understanding that they would be bound by their enlistment agreement. All I am talking about is making a choice and sticking with the consequences.
Sorry if that sounds so terribly unreasonable.
In addition to being "terribly unreasonable," it's also silly that you keep going back to it over and over again because will never, ever happen.
I might as well say that I think all kids who choose to go to college have to make an 8-year commitent that includes grad school and teaching at the college for two years. That's never gonna happen, either.
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I am simply talking about establishing rules, giving people choices, and then letting them live with the consequences. It really isn’t as hard as you seem to think it is.
But your rules are unreasonable. Unreasonable rules shouldn't exist.
Are you in favor of eliminating basketball rules altogether then? You know – because eliminating rules wont harm anyone.
Wow. I think I'm done with this.
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Wow. I think I'm done with this.
Solid.
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BEATING THE DEAD HORSE. Quintessential example
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LIMITED reasons, not a host of reasons. Most of the major conferences guarantee the scholarship for 4 years, the wiggle room to get out is limited.
Not limited.
Among the possibilities:
- Is ruled to be ineligible for competition;
- Provides fraudulent information on an application, letter of intent, or financial aid agreement;
- Engages in serious misconduct that rises to the level of being disciplined by the university’s regular student disciplinary board;
- Voluntarily quits their team; or
- Violates a university policy or rule which is not related to athletic conditions or ability (such as a university policy on class attendance, or an athletic department policy regarding proper conduct on a team trip).
The last one is key. Violating any university policy whatsoever. That encompasses dozens of possibilities, ranging from skipping class to underage drinking in a dorm room. To suggest any violation of school policy is "limited" is inaccurate.
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Not limited.
Among the possibilities:
- Is ruled to be ineligible for competition;
- Provides fraudulent information on an application, letter of intent, or financial aid agreement;
- Engages in serious misconduct that rises to the level of being disciplined by the university’s regular student disciplinary board;
- Voluntarily quits their team; or
- Violates a university policy or rule which is not related to athletic conditions or ability (such as a university policy on class attendance, or an athletic department policy regarding proper conduct on a team trip).
The last one is key. Violating any university policy whatsoever. That encompasses dozens of possibilities, ranging from skipping class to underage drinking in a dorm room. To suggest any violation of school policy is "limited" is inaccurate.
We will agree to disagree. The way I understand it with friends that are AD's at some of these P5 schools, the openings are small. For example, the skipping class, etc, has to be same standard that every other student has to go through. I think that is what you are saying, but the point being it just doesn't happen very often where kids miss enough they are kicked out....ESPECIALLY if you are on scholarship.
If you mind your P's and Q's, you will be just fine. The school doesn't want to open itself up to lawsuits. Thus far, at least at the schools that I am most familiar with, not a single person that is no longer playing was shown the door and is still on the scholarship. When I say limited, the outs for the university and the reality of how often they happen are infrequent.
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FWIW, I also don't think we should be allowing 18 year olds to enlist. I'm not even sure I think 18 year olds should be allowed to vote. I think 18 was an arbitrary number that was picked a long time ago and is probably due for an update to match our current society.
That being said, I'm against the one and done rule. I also think that everyone would benefit if they moved towards a model similar to college hockey.
The 18 year old vote came around because 18 year olds were being drafted.
I agree the ages should be changed to reflect the current circumstance.
I like the baseball draft rule which is somewhat similar to hockey. In baseball you get one chance to be drafted at the end of high school and one after 3 years of college. Seems to work out very well.
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But what about Howard, have you heard he’s young?