MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: muwarrior69 on February 21, 2019, 07:00:40 AM
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I think he'll be OK, but what the heck happened to his shoe? Nike seems concerned. Do our guys wear Nikes?
If you think this belongs in the Superbar; move it.
http://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/nike-releases-statement-duke-zion-williamson-rips-through-shoe-injures-knee/1sgpwpx9owh831mefctr9or770
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Didn't that happen at Marquette, pre Nike?
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Didn't that happen at Marquette, pre Nike?
Mac tweeted last night that he and Logterman texted about it after seeing the blow-out:
"That happened EVERY DAY with LA Gear #noexaggeration"
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I think he'll be OK, but what the heck happened to his shoe? Nike seems concerned. Do our guys wear Nikes?
If you think this belongs in the Superbar; move it.
http://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/nike-releases-statement-duke-zion-williamson-rips-through-shoe-injures-knee/1sgpwpx9owh831mefctr9or770
Jordan is a Nike subsidiary so yes they do wear Nikes
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Mac tweeted last night that he and Logterman texted about it after seeing the blow-out:
"That happened EVERY DAY with LA Gear #noexaggeration"
I remember that.
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Mac tweeted last night that he and Logterman texted about it after seeing the blow-out:
"That happened EVERY DAY with LA Gear #noexaggeration"
And, it happened most famously in a nationally televised game (we didn't get too many of those in the early 90's). I'm pretty sure it was Logterman, and I think it was against Kansas.
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I think he'll be OK, but what the heck happened to his shoe? Nike seems concerned. Do our guys wear Nikes?
If you think this belongs in the Superbar; move it.
http://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/nike-releases-statement-duke-zion-williamson-rips-through-shoe-injures-knee/1sgpwpx9owh831mefctr9or770
Yeah, it's not a good look to have your product completely fail on national television in one of the most highly anticipated sporting events of the year. Even less so when the product failure results in an injury to the most famous college basketball player in the country. But, they're Nike, so I'm sure they'll come out of this OK. If it was a lesser brand, it would probably be more problematic.
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What if Zion comes back and says I don't trust Nike shoes and refuses to play in them? Duke and Coach K get a ton of money from Nike for their players to play in Nikes. Zion gets nothing. Do Duke and K have to return a boatload of money to Nike?
If not already, this could be an unspeakable disaster for Nike.
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I am sure all the team managers are busy checking out their team's shoes.
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I am sure all the team managers are busy checking out their team's shoes.
And how do they do that? If it is so easy to figure out that a shoe is defective, why didn't Zion figure it out when he was putting it on?
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Nike will be fine. They probably will have their R&D people go over the shoe with an electron microscope to figure out what went wrong. They will announce their findings and that they are taking every possible step (hah!) to see whatever the flaw was doesn't happen again. At some point, they will probably say something along the lines of they strive to make sure that every item they make is held to a very high quality standard, but sometimes, even through their rigorous quality control program, a flaw can happen.
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Nike will be fine. They probably will have their R&D people go over the shoe with an electron microscope to figure out what went wrong. They will announce their findings and that they are taking every possible step (hah!) to see whatever the flaw was doesn't happen again. At some point, they will probably say something along the lines of they strive to make sure that every item they make is held to a very high quality standard, but sometimes, even through their rigorous quality control program, a flaw can happen.
What is the rigorous quality control that one uses in a Mongolian sweatshop that pays its workers $1/day?
Nike's stock is being quoted down 1.5% in overnight trading from yesterday's NYSE close.
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What if Zion comes back and says I don't trust Nike shoes and refuses to play in them? Duke and Coach K get a ton of money from Nike for their players to play in Nikes. Zion gets nothing.
Yes, this is emblamatic of a situation discussed in another thread.
The school and the coach get rich on the back of the athlete-student. All the athlete-student gets out of the relationship, at least in this case, is a busted knee.
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Yep. And it brings back the whole argument as to whether Zion should play another game or protect his #1 draft status.
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I think he'll be OK, but what the heck happened to his shoe? Nike seems concerned. Do our guys wear Nikes?
If you think this belongs in the Superbar; move it.
http://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-basketball/news/nike-releases-statement-duke-zion-williamson-rips-through-shoe-injures-knee/1sgpwpx9owh831mefctr9or770
My favorite part of this article is that they call Coach K "Coach Mike Mike Krzyzewski"
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Also, Nike could try saying something like '(shoe X) is designed for mere mortals. Zion is so amazing with his size and speed that he was too much for this shoe. Nike looks forward to working with him to design the 'Zion', a shoe that can stand up to 6'7, 280 lbs of blinding quickness.'
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Yep. And it brings back the whole argument as to whether Zion should play another game or protect his #1 draft status.
It's an interesting debate. I wouldn't criticize Zion if he chose not to, but I hope he gets healthy soon and decides to finish the season.
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Also, Nike could try saying something like '(shoe X) is designed for mere mortals. Zion is so amazing with his size and speed that he was too much for this shoe. Nike looks forward to working with him to design the 'Zion', a shoe that can stand up to 6'7, 280 lbs of blinding quickness.'
This was my first thought as well.
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What if Zion comes back and says I don't trust Nike shoes and refuses to play in them? Duke and Coach K get a ton of money from Nike for their players to play in Nikes. Zion gets nothing. Do Duke and K have to return a boatload of money to Nike?
If not already, this could be an unspeakable disaster for Nike.
Zion got plenty of money from Nike to be at Duke and in Nikes/Nike gear.
Yes, this is emblamatic of a situation discussed in another thread.
The school and the coach get rich on the back of the athlete-student. All the athlete-student gets out of the relationship, at least in this case, is a busted knee.
I am quite confident Zion got more than just a busted knee from Nike.
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Jordan is a Nike subsidiary so yes they do wear Nikes
Dook doesnt wear Jordans, UNC does.
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Zion got plenty of money from Nike to be at Duke and in Nikes/Nike gear.
It is insulting to Zion's intelligence and borderline racist to suggest Duke and K get tens of millions of dollars and Zion gets satisfied with a handful of tee-shirts, shoes and sweats.
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It is insulting to Zion's intelligence and borderline racist to suggest Duke and K get tens of millions of dollars and Zion gets satisfied with a handful of tee-shirts, shoes and sweats.
Jeebus, smuggs. Wade's is not so subtly implying that Nike paid Zion to play at Duke. Not just Zion getting some warmups.
But racist!!!!
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Also, Nike could try saying something like '(shoe X) is designed for mere mortals. Zion is so amazing with his size and speed that he was too much for this shoe. Nike looks forward to working with him to design the 'Zion', a shoe that can stand up to 6'7, 280 lbs of blinding quickness.'
He was wearing the Nike PG 2.5. This is Paul George's branded shoe.
So the shoe was built to handed the stresses of George (6'10 230) but not Zion. So, Nike will make a clever campaign that insults George as being inferior to Zion?
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Isn't there a video of JFB busting his shoe the same way while running suicides at boot camp, and Buzz's only reaction was that he didn't finish in time, and had to re-run it?
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It is insulting to Zion's intelligence and borderline racist to suggest Duke and K get tens of millions of dollars and Zion gets satisfied with a handful of tee-shirts, shoes and sweats.
Racist? Lol. I'm not sure I'll even address this since you're clearly in it for the shock value.
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Jeebus, smuggs. Wade's is not so subtly implying that Nike paid Zion to play at Duke. Not just Zion getting some warmups.
But racist!!!!
Did Nike pay Zion $5 or $10 million? No.
Wades seems to be suggesting the school and the coach gets tens of millions and the player gets, what, $100 grand? $250 grand? And Wades is implying this is good enough for the player to not complain.
Edit: race removed, and it doesn't make you sound crazy!
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Did Nike pay Zion $5 or $10 million? No.
Wades seems to be suggesting the white school and the white coach gets tens of millions and the black player gets, what, $100 grand? $250 grand? And Wades is implying this is good enough for the black player to not complain.
Wades is the very definition of racism ... down to the point that the rich fat white guy (wades) is incapable of seeing his own racism by insulting Zion that paying him 1/100 or 1/200 of what Duke makes off him should make Zion sit down and shut up because he got his.
Lol. Somebody's been hurting for some attention in his life.
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Lol. Somebody's been hurting for some attention in his life.
Privileged white guy that does not understand his own racism.
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Did Nike pay Zion $5 or $10 million? No.
Wades seems to be suggesting the white school and the white coach gets tens of millions and the black player gets, what, $100 grand? $250 grand? And Wades is implying this is good enough for the black player to not complain.
Wades is the very definition of racism ... down to the point that the rich fat white guy (wades) is incapable of seeing his own racism by insulting Zion that paying him 1/100 or 1/200 of what Duke makes off him should make Zion sit down and shut up because he got his.
In before the lock and/or Smuggles getting another long Scoopcation.
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Yes, this is emblamatic of a situation discussed in another thread.
The school and the coach get rich on the back of the athlete-student. All the athlete-student gets out of the relationship, at least in this case, is a busted knee.
Here we go.....
First off, it isn’t a requirement that the players wear Nike. It for sure is encouraged, but for various reasons including orthopedic, players have worn other brands. All they get out of the relationship is a busted knee? Simply wow.
Want to bet the Nike deal Zion gets after Duke just WENT up a ton of money because of this? I guarantee it. Zion just got even more leverage....because of what happened in a college game in which he was “exploited”.
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Racist? Lol. I'm not sure I'll even address this since you're clearly in it for the shock value.
He tried that BS the other day, too. Now I think he is just being sarcastic on this one.
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Nike will be fine. They probably will have their R&D people go over the shoe with an electron microscope to figure out what went wrong. They will announce their findings and that they are taking every possible step (hah!) to see whatever the flaw was doesn't happen again. At some point, they will probably say something along the lines of they strive to make sure that every item they make is held to a very high quality standard, but sometimes, even through their rigorous quality control program, a flaw can happen.
Yup. Stringent Quality Assurance measures are followed religiously in the sweatshops of Indonesia, etc.
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Dook doesnt wear Jordans, UNC does.
I know, I was replying to the "do our guys where Nikes" question
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The FBI and their wiretap of coaches and shoe reps discussing paying Zion and setting up his family with a nice living situation are so racist to suggest that he got anything other than a busted knee from Duke...
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Here we go.....
First off, it isn’t a requirement that the players wear Nike. It for sure is encouraged, but for various reasons including orthopedic, players have worn other brands. All they get out of the relationship is a busted knee? Simply wow.
Want to bet the Nike deal Zion gets after Duke just WENT up a ton of money because of this? I guarantee it. Zion just got even more leverage....because of what happened in a college game in which he was “exploited”.
Ignore.
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(https://s3media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/367/299/8299367.gif)
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Yep. And it brings back the whole argument as to whether Zion should play another game or protect his #1 draft status.
I hope he does, and that will be a giant bat signal to schools not even to bother taking these guys as recruits in the future. If their goal is to win titles and the players won’t play, then you are better off going after guys that will play. Let the one and dones play something other than college ball.
#ZionPleaseSitOut-JustDoIt
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Ignore.
You know I am right, Nike is essentially going to have to do everything to sign him, though it was widely understood he was going to sign with them anyway. Now with the bad publicity, the dollars coming his way just went up even more.
He has massive leverage. I know it hurts, but deep down you know I am right in this. LOL
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You know I am right, Nike is essentially going to have to do everything to sign him, though it was widely understood he was going to sign with them anyway. Now with the bad publicity, the dollars coming his way just went up even more.
He has massive leverage. I know it hurts, but deep down you know I am right in this. LOL
I agree that he does have leverage. However, it’s a weird selling point to say, “We won’t pay you anything, but you can injure your knee for a bigger shoe contract.” I don’t think the NCAA would be wise to use that reasoning.
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I agree that he does have leverage. However, it’s a weird selling point to say, “We won’t pay you anything, but you can injure your knee for a bigger shoe contract.” I don’t think the NCAA would be wise to use that reasoning.
He was getting a massive shoe contract anyway. He’s just getting an even more massive one now. He’s been slated for a shoe deal the second he gives up his eligibility.
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If I’m adidas, puma or UA, I’m on the phone with zions people last night and every day until he signs that contract.
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If I’m adidas, puma or UA, I’m on the phone with zions people last night and every day until he signs that contract.
Yup, which only drives up the dollars for the “exploited” athlete because Nike will do anything to amends.
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Yup, which only drives up the dollars for the “exploited” athlete because Nike will do anything to amends.
Dude. Haha. Not EVERY thread needs to be turned into an “exploited” thing or a “racist” thing. Sometimes conversations are OK without trying to turn them into arguments.
I appreciate your content but you and sandknit and rick’s towel gotta learn to have conversations instead of arguments.
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You know I am right, Nike is essentially going to have to do everything to sign him, though it was widely understood he was going to sign with them anyway. Now with the bad publicity, the dollars coming his way just went up even more.
He has massive leverage. I know it hurts, but deep down you know I am right in this. LOL
Don't feed the troll.
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When I saw Zion go down, I immediately thought that Markus ain’t coming back next year.
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It is insulting to Zion's intelligence and borderline racist to suggest Duke and K get tens of millions of dollars and Zion gets satisfied with a handful of tee-shirts, shoes and sweats.
Hesie, you are not very good at playing the race card.
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When I saw Zion go down, I immediately thought that Markus ain’t coming back next year.
Why?
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Why?
Why risk injury. Even if you are a 2nd rounder, go and fight for a roster spot.
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Kant talk 'bout everydey chit here no moore. Bagels and lox cummin' write up, hey?
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Why risk injury. Even if you are a 2nd rounder, go and fight for a roster spot.
Or you could say maybe he tries to be a second rounder and fight for a roster spot, doesn't get it and never gets his shot at the NBA, so he goes overseas and makes 6 digits for 10 years, and then needs to go back to school to complete his education and get a real job.
Markus would not be the player to look at that and think "I need to leave now." It's the sure fire top NBA players who might need do that. It was a freak play, not a regular occurrence.
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Kant talk 'bout everydey chit here no moore. Bagels and lox cummin' write up, hey?
Huh?
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Huh?
Race got brought up. Some categorize race as politics so 4ever is suggesting that this thread will be locked for talking politics.
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Race got brought up. Some categorize race as politics so 4ever is suggesting that this thread will be locked for talking politics.
Ah. Thanks for being a Dr. Gibberish translator, TAMU. Much appreciated.
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Or you could say maybe he tries to be a second rounder and fight for a roster spot, doesn't get it and never gets his shot at the NBA, so he goes overseas and makes 6 digits for 10 years, and then needs to go back to school to complete his education and get a real job.
Markus would not be the player to look at that and think "I need to leave now." It's the sure fire top NBA players who might need do that. It was a freak play, not a regular occurrence.
Ask Dominic James.
Again, I’m not abdicating him leaving or staying. The thought of injury is real. People are out there saying Zion should not play anymore this season and risk a major injury.
Again, was just my initial reaction.
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I had the volume down low on SportsCenter this morning, so maybe I misheard, but didn't Coach K say postgame that Zion has tweaked his knee a few times over the past few games/weeks? Based on that info, I'll be surprised if we see him again. It's one thing if his knee was 100%, and then this freak accident happened. It's another if his knee was weak to begin with, and this made it worse.
If he does sit out the rest of the year, it'll be interesting to how it's portrayed by Duke and Zion. If they stick to the line of "his knee is just not where it needs to be", I think he's a lock for NPOY. However, if Zion makes it clear that he's 100% and he's sitting out in the interest of his future, I think he loses a lot of votes.
Honestly, if his knee was truly banged up before last night, he should shut it down, and I have no doubt that Coach K and his teammates would be supportive. They know what is on the line.
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Heisie is, for the first time, taking the side of the downtrodden masses to stir the pot. Same with Willie. Cheeks gotta cheeks.
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I know, I was replying to the "do our guys where Nikes" question
I see what you said was correct, it was worded a little odd. All good, kin.
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Heisie is, for the first time, taking the side of the downtrodden masses to stir the pot. Same with Willie. Cheeks gotta cheeks.
Mu82 has to 82, wades will wade, tower will tower, 4ever will 4ever, so on and so forth.
Each of these threads you can predict with at least 90% certainty where people stand before they are even written, but you seem to only call out some in my opinion. Again, my opinion only....personally I don’t mind it...makes Scoop Scoop. People are going to have strong and differing opinions.
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Mu82 has to 82, wades will wade, tower will tower, 4ever will 4ever, so on and so forth.
Each of these threads you can predict with at least 90% certainty where people stand before they are even written, but you seem to only call out some in my opinion. Again, my opinion only....personally I don’t mind it...makes Scoop Scoop. People are going to have strong and differing opinions.
True.
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Mu82 has to 82, wades will wade, tower will tower, 4ever will 4ever, so on and so forth.
Each of these threads you can predict with at least 90% certainty where people stand before they are even written, but you seem to only call out some in my opinion. Again, my opinion only....personally I don’t mind it...makes Scoop Scoop. People are going to have strong and differing opinions.
It's not what is said, it's who is saying it, ai'na?
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It's not what is said, it's who is saying it, ai'na?
Yup. Really not a big fan of that, but makes it easier to entirely discount what is said... A lot of that going around in the world these days. I think it's rooted in troll behavior online, honestly.
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Yup. Really not a big fan of that, but makes it easier to entirely discount what is said... A lot of that going around in the world these days. I think it's rooted in troll behavior online, honestly.
Yep, D'Lo ... trolls will troll.
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Yep, D'Lo ... trolls will troll.
Spoken by someone who does it with the best....you are truly one of the best.
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Spoken by someone who does it with the best....you are truly one of the best.
+1
The last five or so posts are classic ... all the trolls lining up to lament trolling.
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Nike Basketball Shoe Blowout May Be a ‘Classic’ Liability Case
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-21/nike-slagged-in-twitter-storm-as-basketball-star-s-shoe-splits
The incident suggests that Nike could be liable, said Paul Edelstein, a lawyer at Edelsteins Faegenburg & Brown in New York. He represents athletes in brain injury and other sports-related litigation.
“This would be a classic product-liability case if Mr. Williamson suffered any type of serious injury and was inclined to bring one,” Edelstein said. “This product was specifically designed to provide support for athletes such as him and clearly failed.”
The injury happened after Williamson planted his foot to change direction. His left shoe, Nike’s PG 2.5 PE, came apart, causing him to fall awkwardly.
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It was much more his foot slipping out from under him that caused the awkward leg bend, and the force of the slip is what caused the shoe to split. The shoe splitting didn't cause the fall, it was a result of the fall.
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Nike Basketball Shoe Blowout May Be a ‘Classic’ Liability Case
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-21/nike-slagged-in-twitter-storm-as-basketball-star-s-shoe-splits
The incident suggests that Nike could be liable, said Paul Edelstein, a lawyer at Edelsteins Faegenburg & Brown in New York. He represents athletes in brain injury and other sports-related litigation.
“This would be a classic product-liability case if Mr. Williamson suffered any type of serious injury and was inclined to bring one,” Edelstein said. “This product was specifically designed to provide support for athletes such as him and clearly failed.”
The injury happened after Williamson planted his foot to change direction. His left shoe, Nike’s PG 2.5 PE, came apart, causing him to fall awkwardly.
I can't wait for the warning labels now on shoes that say if you are over this size, this particular weight, apply this much torque, if the floor has X grade of viscosity, etc, etc, the shoes may not function.
Merica
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It was much more his foot slipping out from under him that caused the awkward leg bend, and the force of the slip is what caused the shoe to split. The shoe splitting didn't cause the fall, it was a result of the fall.
+7
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Interesting that many the current NBA players think like DeMarcus, not like the white guys here that do not think the NCAA exploits its players.
DeMarcus Cousins Rips NCAA After Zion Williamson Injury: 'It's Bulls**t'
https://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/demarcus-cousins-rips-ncaa-after-zion-williamson-injury-its-bullst-554867.html
At the mere mention of the scary, shoe-splitting spill Wednesday by prize NBA prospect Zion Williamson, Warriors star DeMarcus Cousins came out swinging.
"Knowing what I know now, college (basketball) is bulls**t," he said Thursday. "College basketball and the NCAA is bulls**t."
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And, it happened most famously in a nationally televised game (we didn't get too many of those in the early 90's). I'm pretty sure it was Logterman, and I think it was against Kansas.
Nov 1990 v Duke at Cameron
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Interesting that many the current NBA players think like DeMarcus, not like the white guys here that do not think the NCAA exploits its players.
DeMarcus Cousins Rips NCAA After Zion Williamson Injury: 'It's Bulls**t'
https://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/demarcus-cousins-rips-ncaa-after-zion-williamson-injury-its-bullst-554867.html
At the mere mention of the scary, shoe-splitting spill Wednesday by prize NBA prospect Zion Williamson, Warriors star DeMarcus Cousins came out swinging.
"Knowing what I know now, college (basketball) is bulls**t," he said Thursday. "College basketball and the NCAA is bulls**t."
They should keep it up, have their union change the 1 and done rule if they are so committed. Fine by me and many college basketball fans. He should also take a look in the mirror and examine all the pro players that had ZERO shot of pro ball UNTIL they played college ball and polished their skills and proved it....for some reason these guys aren't talking about that today...hmm.
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They should keep it up, have their union change the 1 and done rule if they are so committed. Fine by me and many college basketball fans. He should also take a look in the mirror and examine all the pro players that had ZERO shot of pro ball UNTIL they played college ball and polished their skills and proved it....for some reason these guys aren't talking about that today...hmm.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26048666/demarcus-cousins-golden-state-warriors-blasts-ncaa-system-zion-williamson-injury
Cousins, who spent one season at Kentucky before being selected with the fifth pick in the 2010 NBA draft, said he enjoyed his time in college, but he has a different perspective after almost a decade in the professional basketball.
"I loved my experience in college," Cousins said. "That was some of the best years of my life playing basketball. But with that being said, just how crooked the whole NCAA business is -- I actually saw a post the other day where the highest ticket for that UNC-Duke game was $2,500, $3,500. How much does Zion Williamson see? That's who they're coming to see, so how much of that is he getting? Actually, who does it go to? How does it benefit any player on that team? But if they were to get $20 and a free meal, they're this bad kid, they get a bad rep, uncoachable, or thugs, whatever the case may be. So it's bulls---. It's been bulls---."
Cousins believes the GLeague route, over time, will gain more traction with younger players looking for a different route to the NBA.
"The DLeague/GLeague route," Cousins said. "I think that's helpful. Obviously, it's not a popular thing right now, but I think it will grow over time. You've seen a couple of young guys in that program already.
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another interesting comment from this story ...
"I have no comment on what he should do for his future," [LeBron] James said Thursday. "If he needed any advice, he can find a way to find me, but it is not for you guys, it is not for someone to go sit across the table and say, 'Well, LeBron said this about this kid.'
"He has to do what is best for him. His family has always been his support system. I just wish great health for the kid, but that's not my lane to talk about what he should do going forward."
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Nov 1990 v Duke at Cameron
That's funny...my memory was that it was Duke, and I had originally typed that because I thought it was an interesting coincidence. But then when I googled to see if I could find a video to link, I came across this wiki article (https://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/robb_logterman): "The Kansas game was televised on ESPN and was remembered for showcasing Robb's uncanny knack for destorying [sic] L.A. Gear shoes." I guess I should have trusted my memory. But I'm getting old...and the memory isn't what it used to be.
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http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26048666/demarcus-cousins-golden-state-warriors-blasts-ncaa-system-zion-williamson-injury
Cousins, who spent one season at Kentucky before being selected with the fifth pick in the 2010 NBA draft, said he enjoyed his time in college, but he has a different perspective after almost a decade in the professional basketball.
"I loved my experience in college," Cousins said. "That was some of the best years of my life playing basketball. But with that being said, just how crooked the whole NCAA business is -- I actually saw a post the other day where the highest ticket for that UNC-Duke game was $2,500, $3,500. How much does Zion Williamson see? That's who they're coming to see, so how much of that is he getting? Actually, who does it go to? How does it benefit any player on that team? But if they were to get $20 and a free meal, they're this bad kid, they get a bad rep, uncoachable, or thugs, whatever the case may be. So it's bulls---. It's been bulls---."
Cousins believes the GLeague route, over time, will gain more traction with younger players looking for a different route to the NBA.
"The DLeague/GLeague route," Cousins said. "I think that's helpful. Obviously, it's not a popular thing right now, but I think it will grow over time. You've seen a couple of young guys in that program already.
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another interesting comment from this story ...
"I have no comment on what he should do for his future," [LeBron] James said Thursday. "If he needed any advice, he can find a way to find me, but it is not for you guys, it is not for someone to go sit across the table and say, 'Well, LeBron said this about this kid.'
"He has to do what is best for him. His family has always been his support system. I just wish great health for the kid, but that's not my lane to talk about what he should do going forward."
For the 18 billionth time. No one is making them go to college. They have the options of going to play in the G-league, Europe, or a number of other professional leagues around the world.
They made the personal decision that what was best for their long term interests was College, knowing full well the different economic options out there.
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Interesting that many the current NBA players think like DeMarcus, not like the white guys here that do not think the NCAA exploits its players.
That's the only "skill" I have that's similar to an NBA player!
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That's funny...my memory was that it was Duke, and I had originally typed that because I thought it was an interesting coincidence. But then when I googled to see if I could find a video to link, I came across this wiki article (https://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/robb_logterman): "The Kansas game was televised on ESPN and was remembered for showcasing Robb's uncanny knack for destorying [sic] L.A. Gear shoes." I guess I should have trusted my memory. But I'm getting old...and the memory isn't what it used to be.
It happened more than once, as I remember that after a few games - mid-season - we changed shoes over to Nike because of repeated LA Gear failures. I remember that talk on campus before the season was WHY in the heck did ONeil change to LA GEAR - must have gotten alot of $$$$? But it was definitely that first game of the season, on the road, freshman pg - at Cameron - first game in the new show brand - and his shoe just blows out - First time I ever saw that. Also - that games wasn't near as close as the score.
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For the 18 billionth time. No one is making them go to college. They have the options of going to play in the G-league, Europe, or a number of other professional leagues around the world.
They made the personal decision that what was best for their long term interests was College, knowing full well the different economic options out there.
By why the rigged system that prevents a kid from maximizing his talents? And why does this rigged system apply only to basketball and football players? Why could Austin Matthews play at the top level of pro hockey as an 18-year-old, but Zion Williamson is somehow unprepared for the NBA?
I mean, nobody tells a a brilliant software engineer, "Hey, kid, you're good enough to be a star at Google, but first you have to spend a year at DuckDuckGo." Of course not. Because we all want a system where someone can maximize their talents. Unless he plays basketball or football.
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Race got brought up. Some categorize race as politics so 4ever is suggesting that this thread will be locked for talking politics.
Is there a Google translator for this?
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Yep, D'Lo ... trolls will troll.
Must be painful, Mike, when chico and heisy are teaming up against you ;D ;D ;D
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For the 18 billionth time. No one is making them go to college. They have the options of going to play in the G-league, Europe, or a number of other professional leagues around the world.
Serious question.
Do you favor age rather than ability for a kid to be allowed to play in the NBA? Your post seems to be saying that, but I could be reading it wrong.
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Just to clear something up, is anyone here against the one and done rule ending?
I don't think the NCAA should have to pay players the way some are suggesting. But I'm seeing a lot of arguments complaining about players not being able to go to the NBA right away. Those are two completely separate topics to me. I'm all for the one and done/free and three (for football) ending but that's an NBA/NFL issue, not an NCAA one.
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By why the rigged system that prevents a kid from maximizing his talents? And why does this rigged system apply only to basketball and football players? Why could Austin Matthews play at the top level of pro hockey as an 18-year-old, but Zion Williamson is somehow unprepared for the NBA?
I mean, nobody tells a a brilliant software engineer, "Hey, kid, you're good enough to be a star at Google, but first you have to spend a year at DuckDuckGo." Of course not. Because we all want a system where someone can maximize their talents. Unless he plays basketball or football.
Because life isn't perfect and solutions don't exist in a vacuum for every instance in every sport....or for that matter a lot of things in life. Why it is someone in an urban area can get to a hospital in 5 minutes, but there are millions of Americans that are at least 20 minutes from a hospital? Why is it that some people live within 10 minutes of an ice rink and others are no closer than 250 miles. Because life isn't so simple, or fair, or just, and we don't live in unicorn land and real costs, legalities, etc come into play. You are a pragmatic person most of the time, I don't understand why this one is so difficult for you and others.
Just on a practical level, should the age limit for all sports be the same? Are all bodies ready to take on that stress, maturity, etc? Or let me flip your question, why can't we have basketball players a minimum of 3 years in college like some other sports if they don't come out of high school? Let's make sure there is consistency in your arguments.
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Must be painful, Mike, when chico and heisy are teaming up against you ;D ;D ;D
O Canada! Our home and native land!
True patriot love in all thy sons command.
With glowing hearts we see thee rise,
The True North strong and free!
From far and wide, O Canada,
We stand on guard for thee.
God keep our land, glorious and free!
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee;
O Canada, we stand on guard for thee
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Just to clear something up, is anyone here against the one and done rule ending?
I don't think the NCAA should have to pay players the way some are suggesting. But I'm seeing a lot of arguments complaining about players not being able to go to the NBA right away. Those are two completely separate topics to me. I'm all for the one and done/free and three (for football) ending but that's an NBA/NFL issue, not an NCAA one.
You and I remain on same page....again, I'm sorry for that. ;) They are two completely different issues. Get rid of the one and done. If kids want to go directly, God Bless them. For the rest of the 99%, college ball is there for you. I can't wait for the NBA to start complaining that they drafted these high school kids that aren't very good because they misjudged, but that is what will happen. Can't escape it. The NBA has the NCAA save them from making poor decisions, and that will now change.
#JustDoIt
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No strong opinion either way on the 1 and done rule. As a college basketball fan I do like seeing the top players in college for a year. And I think a majority of the time even if a top player out of high school doesn't perform up to expectations in their freshman year it doesn't hurt their draft stock all that much, so I don't think it kills them.
But if they want to go and start making money then good for them.
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Duz da water train run ta Kanada, hey?
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Must be painful, Mike, when chico and heisy are teaming up against you ;D ;D ;D
(https://contemplatingtruth.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/77805-moth-to-solar-flame.jpg?w=640)
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Just to clear something up, is anyone here against the one and done rule ending?
I don't think the NCAA should have to pay players the way some are suggesting. But I'm seeing a lot of arguments complaining about players not being able to go to the NBA right away. Those are two completely separate topics to me. I'm all for the one and done/free and three (for football) ending but that's an NBA/NFL issue, not an NCAA one.
To me if one goes away, the other one won't matter. One a done affects maybe 25-50 players, tops.
If Cam blew out his shoe, it wouldn't even make scoop.
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By why the rigged system that prevents a kid from maximizing his talents? And why does this rigged system apply only to basketball and football players? Why could Austin Matthews play at the top level of pro hockey as an 18-year-old, but Zion Williamson is somehow unprepared for the NBA?
I mean, nobody tells a a brilliant software engineer, "Hey, kid, you're good enough to be a star at Google, but first you have to spend a year at DuckDuckGo." Of course not. Because we all want a system where someone can maximize their talents. Unless he plays basketball or football.
Actually there are a lot of restrictions on working in many industries that are based on age, where it doesn't matter how good you are, you have to wait to meet the age restrictions.
Serious question.
Do you favor age rather than ability for a kid to be allowed to play in the NBA? Your post seems to be saying that, but I could be reading it wrong.
I don't favor one or the other. I recognize the fact that some industries self-regulate with age restrictions and it is perfectly legal. The NBA has agreed to these age restrictions.
My only point was that the college players have options. Players in college have chosen it as their best option for their long term profit. They aren't "victimized," they chose this out of several options.
It's like choosing to go to McDonald's because it is cheaper, and then complaining that the you were victimized because the burgers weren't made with Kobe beef like the gourmet restaurant down the street.
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Must be painful, Mike, when chico and heisy are teaming up against you ;D ;D ;D
Thoughts and prayers to me, I guess.
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Actually there are a lot of restrictions on working in many industries that are based on age, where it doesn't matter how good you are, you have to wait to meet the age restrictions.
Really? Lots in many industries?
Outside of age requirements created by law (i.e. a 16-year-old can't sell alcohol, an 80-year-old can't be a commercial airline pilot) what are some of many industries that impose lots of restrictions upon adult workers?
And, as if this weren't already a timely enough discussion, apparently the NBA has decided its age requirement isn't all that necessary.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26049542/nba-proposes-changing-draft-age-19-18-players-union
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Another way that Zion was screwed ... Darren Rovell is reporting that he has an insurance contract but he is woefully under-insured.
https://www.actionnetwork.com/ncaab/zion-williamson-insurance-policy-injury-duke-unc-2019
Duke's Zion Williamson, who went down with a flukey knee injury on Wednesday night vs. UNC, has a Loss of Value insurance policy worth up to $8 million.
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“The university usually isn’t insuring the guys to their full value,” said Ronnie Kaymore, CEO of Kaymore Sports Risk Management, which specializes in advising athletes for their insurance injury protection. “Often the amount a school takes out is driven by the school’s budget.”
Kaymore says he thinks the athletes should shop for the insurance themselves and then show schools the cost, instead of the school just deciding how much it will pay.
Kaymore says Williamson is worth as much as seven times what Duke has insured his loss of value for. He should get an $18 million rookie deal, along with the ability to earn another $30-50 million in endorsement deals.
Williamson is not the only one. It has happened at many schools. Saquon Barkley notoriously had only $2 million in total disability and only $1 million in loss of value insurance at Penn State, sources said.
Barkley, who was taken second overall by the Giants in last year’s NFL draft, was immediately worth $40 million in contract and endorsements.
There’s another reason why the amount has to be even higher to protect the athlete: The proceeds from an insurance collection can be taxed if the insured doesn’t pay the policy themselves. Otherwise, it’s tax deductible.
Don’t pay collegiate athletes? You can argue about that. But at least fully protect them.
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Another way that Zion was screwed ... Darren Rovell is reporting that he has an insurance contract but he is woefully under-insured.
https://www.actionnetwork.com/ncaab/zion-williamson-insurance-policy-injury-duke-unc-2019
Duke's Zion Williamson, who went down with a flukey knee injury on Wednesday night vs. UNC, has a Loss of Value insurance policy worth up to $8 million.
---
“The university usually isn’t insuring the guys to their full value,” said Ronnie Kaymore, CEO of Kaymore Sports Risk Management, which specializes in advising athletes for their insurance injury protection. “Often the amount a school takes out is driven by the school’s budget.”
Kaymore says he thinks the athletes should shop for the insurance themselves and then show schools the cost, instead of the school just deciding how much it will pay.
Kaymore says Williamson is worth as much as seven times what Duke has insured his loss of value for. He should get an $18 million rookie deal, along with the ability to earn another $30-50 million in endorsement deals.
Williamson is not the only one. It has happened at many schools. Saquon Barkley notoriously had only $2 million in total disability and only $1 million in loss of value insurance at Penn State, sources said.
Barkley, who was taken second overall by the Giants in last year’s NFL draft, was immediately worth $40 million in contract and endorsements.
There’s another reason why the amount has to be even higher to protect the athlete: The proceeds from an insurance collection can be taxed if the insured doesn’t pay the policy themselves. Otherwise, it’s tax deductible.
Don’t pay collegiate athletes? You can argue about that. But at least fully protect them.
He’s day to day with a grade 1 knee sprain. He’s not having his leg amputated.
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Because life isn't perfect and solutions don't exist in a vacuum for every instance in every sport....or for that matter a lot of things in life. Why it is someone in an urban area can get to a hospital in 5 minutes, but there are millions of Americans that are at least 20 minutes from a hospital? Why is it that some people live within 10 minutes of an ice rink and others are no closer than 250 miles. Because life isn't so simple, or fair, or just, and we don't live in unicorn land and real costs, legalities, etc come into play. You are a pragmatic person most of the time, I don't understand why this one is so difficult for you and others.
At what point do you realize that "life isn't perfect/fair" is always terrible argument, typically offered by those with nothing intelligent to say on a subject?
And I'm a little (OK, a lot) befuddled at how you somehow analogize the NBA's capricious age rule to how far one lives from an ice rink. Did you think that made sense somehow?
Just on a practical level, should the age limit for all sports be the same? Are all bodies ready to take on that stress, maturity, etc?
What does age have to do with a body's ability to take on professional basketball? Is Sam Hauser more physically suited for the NBA than Zion Williamson because he's two years older?
And once a person reaches adulthood, I don't think there should be any age limit opposed except for legal reasons or if age somehow is an actual requirement to perform the work. And given that many players directly out of high school have gone on to NBA stardom, one can't reasonably make that argument.
Or let me flip your question, why can't we have basketball players a minimum of 3 years in college like some other sports if they don't come out of high school? Let's make sure there is consistency in your arguments.
I assume you're talking about baseball here, because it's the only sport that almost fits the bill. You're not quite correct (a kid can go to JUCO and stay for one or two years before turning pro), but I'll play along because it's not an apples to apples situation. MLB, unlike the NBA, allows a kid to go pro out of high school. So how is this comparable?
I've long suggested the NBA should shift to an NHL draft model. Let teams draft kids out of high school and retain his rights for two years or, if the kid chooses to go to college, until 30 days after he leaves. Colleges win because they'll still get most of the top players. Teams win because they won't have to draft unprepared kids and stash them on the roster while playing them. Players win because it will give them a choice of attending college or not.
But, of course, hockey players for some reason very different than basketball players. I mean, sure dozens of 18 year olds have handled life in the very soft and not at all physical NHL over the years, but the NBA is way too tough for that.
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He’s day to day with a grade 1 knee sprain. He’s not having his leg amputated.
Yes, but the story above says that the instant his named is called at the June draft he gets between $48m and $68m ($18m rookie deal plus $30m to $50m in endorsements). If he gets hurt he gets $8 million in insurance which is immediately taxable. So, roughly $5m after tax.
If Zion goes sky-diving, rides a motorcycle, or plays in a pickup game it is understood all these activities are too risky (recall the Kansas City Chiefs banned Mohames from playing pickup bball as it was deemed too risky).
So given all this, why isn't it irresponsible from him to return to Duke? Many NBA players understand this which is why they are telling him to shut it down. We had a thread on Scottie Pippen telling him this and Demarcus Cousin said it above.
ADDED LATER
If your answer is something like "maybe he loves playing for Duke. Coach K will accept that. But If Zion also wants to skydive, ride a motorcycle to practice or play in pickup games in the Quad, would K be as approving?
My point is he is an extraordinary talent with an unbelievable upside like no college player has had before him. The most irresponsible thing he can do now it return to Duke. Coach K knows this and should do what is best for Zion, not himself.
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Really? Lots in many industries?
Outside of age requirements created by law (i.e. a 16-year-old can't sell alcohol, an 80-year-old can't be a commercial airline pilot) what are some of many industries that impose lots of restrictions upon adult workers?
And, as if this weren't already a timely enough discussion, apparently the NBA has decided its age requirement isn't all that necessary.
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26049542/nba-proposes-changing-draft-age-19-18-players-union
I'm not going to go through and list every age requirement/restriction on employment in certain industries. There are myriad examples.
If you want a simple one. Ride sharing.
For Lyft, you must be 21.
For Uber, you must have at least 1-yr driving experience, or 3 years if you are under 23. Putting a minimum age of 19.
Not that dissimilar from the NBA age/experience rule.
And I have no problem with the NBA changing their own rule. It is up to them, and the union.
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Yes, but the story above says that the instant his named is called at the June draft he gets between $48m and $68m ($18m rookie deal plus $30m to $50m in endorsements). If he gets hurt he gets $8 million in insurance which is immediately taxable. So, roughly $5m after tax.
If Zion goes sky-diving, rides a motorcycle, or plays in a pickup game it is understood all these activities are too risky (recall the Kansas City Chiefs banned Mohames from playing pickup bball as it was deemed too risky).
So given all this, why isn't it irresponsible from him to return to Duke? Many NBA players understand this which is why they are telling him to shut it down. We had a thread on Scottie Pippen telling him this and Demarcus Cousin said it above.
ADDED LATER
If your answer is something like "maybe he loves playing for Duke. Coach K will accept that. But If Zion also wants to skydive, ride a motorcycle to practice or play in pickup games in the Quad, would K be as approving?
My point is he is an extraordinary talent with an unbelievable upside like no college player has had before him. The most irresponsible thing he can do now it return to Duke. Coach K knows this and should do what is best for Zion, not himself.
Okay.
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President: 35
Senator: 30
US House Rep: 25
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If you want a simple one. Ride sharing.
For Lyft, you must be 21.
For Uber, you must have at least 1-yr driving experience, or 3 years if you are under 23. Putting a minimum age of 19.
The difference being, of course, that a younger basketball player won’t kill anyone by being bad.
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The difference being, of course, that a younger basketball player won’t kill anyone by being bad.
Lyft and Uber do that, because of the risk of damaging the brand if there are any incidents related to lack of experience, particularly due to people being both young and inexperienced.
The NBA has an age restriction, because of a risk of damaging the brand due to incidents related to lack of experience, particularly due to people being both young and inexperienced.
There was largely an age vs. ability argument. One could be a NASCAR star, but be disallowed from driving for Lyft because of age.
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Lyft and Uber do that, because of the risk of damaging the brand if there are any incidents related to lack of experience, particularly due to people being both young and inexperienced.
The NBA has an age restriction, because of a risk of damaging the brand due to incidents related to lack of experience, particularly due to people being both young and inexperienced.
There was largely an age vs. ability argument. One could be a NASCAR star, but be disallowed from driving for Lyft because of age.
The NBA has an age restriction because they have a free minor league system (the NCAA) and don't want to spend the money developing young talent. So they banned them from getting drafted via an age restriction.
See Mark Cuban, he has repeatedly said as much.
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Lyft and Uber do that, because of the risk of damaging the brand if there are any incidents related to lack of experience, particularly due to people being both young and inexperienced.
The NBA has an age restriction, because of a risk of damaging the brand due to incidents related to lack of experience, particularly due to people being both young and inexperienced.
There was largely an age vs. ability argument. One could be a NASCAR star, but be disallowed from driving for Lyft because of age.
Interesting argument; interesting subject.
Would an 18 year old be any more capable of damaging the NBA brand than a 19 year old? Probably not, although I understand the point you are trying to make.
I understand the rule in football. It is mainly for player safety. But, for the NBA, it is simply arbitrary. I agree that MOST 18 year olds are not ready physically and basketball-wise. But if drafted and they are not ready, that is exactly what the G League is for.
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(https://www.thebalancecareers.com/thmb/DYuvPaj78uX-f4VfEa7kLL0ZlOw=/1500x0/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/what-is-the-maximum-age-to-enlist-in-the-military-3354075-v6-5b58a57746e0fb0078c41478.png)
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President: 35
Senator: 30
US House Rep: 25
Pretty sure this would fall under the heading of age requirements created by law. You know, the Constitution and all that. Same with the giant military age limit graphic you posted.
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I've said this on other topics but I'll say it here as well. There is so much to be outraged at in the world. I'm sorry, but I personally don't have enough outrage to spare that Zion Williamson will only get $5 Million if this knee sprain somehow turns into a serious injury that sidelines him for his career. Kudos to you if you have enough stamina to be outraged at that injustice and still have enough outrage left for all the other travesties in the world that I think most would agree are a little more deserving of our attention. I personally am limited.
And before Heise jumps on me, I'll repeat again, I am for ending the one and done rule. That is an NBA issue, not an NCAA one. Personally, I've never believed that the player's union is as for ending one and done as they publicly say they are.
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Lyft and Uber do that, because of the risk of damaging the brand if there are any incidents related to lack of experience, particularly due to people being both young and inexperienced.
The NBA has an age restriction, because of a risk of damaging the brand due to incidents related to lack of experience, particularly due to people being both young and inexperienced.
There was largely an age vs. ability argument. One could be a NASCAR star, but be disallowed from driving for Lyft because of age.
No, the soon-to-be-former age restriction had nothing to do with damaging the brand. I mean, did KG, LeBron, Kobe, Tracy McGrady and Amar'e Stoudemire damage the NBA brand by going straight to the NBA? Most would say they enhanced the brand.
The age restriction was put in place for two reasons: team officials wanted another year to scout players against better than HS competition and the players association reluctantly went along to win concessions on the salary cap.
And now that Adam Silver finally appears ready to end the restriction, after a couple of years of talking about it, doesn't that kind of eliminate the "damaging the brand" argument?
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I've said this on other topics but I'll say it here as well. There is so much to be outraged at in the world. I'm sorry, but I personally don't have enough outrage to spare that Zion Williamson will only get $5 Million if this knee sprain somehow turns into a serious injury that sidelines him for his career. Kudos to you if you have enough stamina to be outraged at that injustice and still have enough outrage left for all the other travesties in the world that I think most would agree are a little more deserving of our attention. I personally am limited.
And before Heise jumps on me, I'll repeat again, I am for ending the one and done rule. That is an NBA issue, not an NCAA one. Personally, I've never believed that the player's union is as for ending one and done as they publicly say they are.
FYI ... one can disagree with and debate the NBA age restriction and still feel outrage at the real injustices of the world. It's not a zero sum game. I promise you, I won't be any less devastated by the next mass shooting in a school because I think the NBA rule is dumb.
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FYI ... one can disagree with and debate the NBA age restriction and still feel outrage at the real injustices of the world. It's not a zero sum game. I promise you, I won't be any less devastated by the next mass shooting in a school because I think the NBA rule is dumb.
Honestly wasn't directed at you. I haven't seen any outrage from you on this topic. Just normal civil conversation.
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FYI ... one can disagree with and debate the NBA age restriction and still feel outrage at the real injustices of the world. It's not a zero sum game. I promise you, I won't be any less devastated by the next mass shooting in a school because I think the NBA rule is dumb.
Fair enough, just as I won't feel any less devastated also by the deaths of Americans by people legally not allowed to be in this country. All kinds of real injustices in the world, as you point out with mass shootings and I point out in other areas....true injustices. The NBA rule is dumb, but it certainly isn't a real injustice in the world, and to your point not a zero sum game.
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Try renting a car under the age of 21, only a few states allow it.
Will it damage the brand, yes and no. Absolutely the NBA will end up drafting kids that are total busts at a higher rate than they do today because the body of work will not be there. That will take a hit to the NBA, however, some of these young guys will do great and that will enhance.
Just make it happen already.
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Fair enough, just as I won't feel any less devastated also by the deaths of Americans by people legally not allowed to be in this country. All kinds of real injustices in the world, as you point out with mass shootings and I point out in other areas....true injustices. The NBA rule is dumb, but it certainly isn't a real injustice in the world, and to your point not a zero sum game.
For someone who doesn't miss an opportunity to point out MU82 bringing politics into discussions I have to give you props for being able to stay away from doing the same thing yourself chicos...
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Some other age restricted jobs
Police = 21 for most jurisdictions
Commercial Pilots have a max age
Bartender - roughly half the states require min age of 21
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Mr. Barkley....the court is yours
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/02/zion-williamson-injury-duke-charles-barkley/amp
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For someone who doesn't miss an opportunity to point out MU82 bringing politics into discussions I have to give you props for being able to stay away from doing the same thing yourself chicos...
Agree. Now he wants to quantify injustices. Pathetic.
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Mr. Barkley....the court is yours
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/02/zion-williamson-injury-duke-charles-barkley/amp
Basketball player who took money while in college believes basketball players should not receive money while in college. :o
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Mr. Barkley....the court is yours
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/02/zion-williamson-injury-duke-charles-barkley/amp
Two things abour Sir Charles comments ....
“I hate the people who are trying to talk about Nike. Yes, I’m on Nike’s payroll. We don’t have no problem with our shoes.
I’ve given him props that he says out loud that he is carrying the water for his paymaster.
“When did we get to the point where all people care about is money? Shaq played college for two years — three. Kenny played for four, I played for three, Michael Jordan played for three, Tim Duncan played for four, David Robinson played for four. Some of the greatest players ever — Wilt Chamberlain, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson — played. When did we get to the point where you’ve got clowns on television saying, ‘Oh, don’t play.’ That’s what you do, Ernie. That’s what we do. We play basketball.
“I don’t ever want to see anybody get hurt. This kid looks like he’s going to be a fantastic player. But I get so mad when people act like money’s the only thing that matters in the world. Like, ‘Oh dude, you’re going to go in the NBA. Don’t play.’ I mean, that’s ridiculous.”
Charles, the difference is you have money and Zion does not. In fact you have enough money to pay a lawyer to get you out of the clink becuase you wanted a streetwalker to give you a hummer. But I digress.
Charles, here is what has changed. Zion has a $50 to $70 million payday coming in four months (June draft). All he has to do is two things ... not get hurt and not die before draft day. That’s it.
This money will change his life. You already made the money that has changed your life (and get you those amazing hummers). Zion should focus on that payday.
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Charles, the difference is you have money and Zion does not.
That might technically but true...but at this point isn't Zion guaranteed at least $8 million, 5 million after taxes by your estimate? Yes I understand that is a fraction of what he will get if he stays healthy, but that certainly seems like life changing money to me.
I've never had $5 million before. I doubt I will make $5 million in my lifetime, before or after taxes. I would like to believe that if I had that much financial security, I would care less about the total amount of money I will make and more about doing things in life that I'm passionate about.
Put another way, I think that if given the choice between $5 million and playing for a national championship, I would take the $5 million. If given the choice between $5 million/playing for an NCAA championship (plus a good chance that I will not suffer a career ending injury which happens to what, .2% of college basketball players?) and $50 million or whatever it is Zion is worth, I think I would take option A. I know others would take option B and that's fine. Different strokes for different folks. But I don't Sir Charles' argument is a bad one.
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I’ll play along for fun.
Let’s pretend Zion comes back and shreds his knee. Do people really believe he will go undradted won’t get a shoe deal?
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I’ll play along for fun.
Let’s pretend Zion comes back and shreds his knee. Do people really believe he will go undradted won’t get a shoe deal?
See Narlens Noel, he was projected by many to be the first pick of the 2013. He shredded his knee at Kentucky and was picked 6th, and never recovered and is a journeyman making a fraction of his pre injury potential.
Ditto Derek Rose, MVP before he was hurt, nothing close to that after.
So, if he shreds his knee, he still makes millions, but risks tens of millions more in potential.
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I’ll play along for fun.
Let’s pretend Zion comes back and shreds his knee. Do people really believe he will go undradted won’t get a shoe deal?
He'll be drafted and get a shoe deal.
But he'll be drafted lower and the shoe deal could be substantially less.
He's taking a multimillion dollar roll of the dice every time he steps on the court.
If he's willing to do that, more power to him. But he should be free to make that choice and people should respect his right to make it.
Anyone want to calculate how much spending a year at Mizzou cost Michael Porter?
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Players shouldn’t even step on a basketball court until their rookie contract is up then I guess.
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Players shouldn’t even step on a basketball court until their rookie contract is up then I guess.
I suspect that would be a legal violation of their rookie contract, rendering it null and void and preventing that second contract.
Probably wouldn't play well with sponsors either, voiding those deals.
What was your point, again?
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I suspect that would be a legal violation of their rookie contract, rendering it null and void and preventing that second contract.
Probably wouldn't play well with sponsors either, voiding those deals.
What was your point, again?
That he's at worst the 3rd pick in the NBA Draft this season even if he does shred his knee.
I just love the reaction to this. The guy has a minor knee sprain and may not miss a single game because of it, yet he needs to stop playing immediately or he's risking millions of dollars...even though he's still going to get those millions of dollars even if he does blow out his knee, which he won't.
If Duke or Kentucky cared 1 iota about their players they'd just fold their seasons. Make sure the kids are healthy.
I'd argue Ja Morant, RJ Barrett, Cam Reddish, etc. are risking far more than Zion is by playing. By a wide margin really.
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I suspect that would be a legal violation of their rookie contract, rendering it null and void and preventing that second contract.
Probably wouldn't play well with sponsors either, voiding those deals.
What was your point, again?
So it is okay to violate their scholarship agreement, but not their rookie contract? Would it prevent them from getting a second contract? I honestly don't know.
The sponsorship thing I get, though I think they may let those infractions slide once the rookie contract is up and the player starts playing again.
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I've said this on other topics but I'll say it here as well. There is so much to be outraged at in the world. I'm sorry, but I personally don't have enough outrage to spare that Zion Williamson will only get $5 Million if this knee sprain somehow turns into a serious injury that sidelines him for his career. Kudos to you if you have enough stamina to be outraged at that injustice and still have enough outrage left for all the other travesties in the world that I think most would agree are a little more deserving of our attention. I personally am limited.
And before Heise jumps on me, I'll repeat again, I am for ending the one and done rule. That is an NBA issue, not an NCAA one. Personally, I've never believed that the player's union is as for ending one and done as they publicly say they are.
TAMU, We use our outrage, stamina, time and energy on a lot of innane things in this world including 14461 All-American Posts on www.muscoop.com. I hope we can shift our resources to the "travesties in the world" some...move the needle a little. But can we be righteous about it?
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So it is okay to violate their scholarship agreement, but not their rookie contract? Would it prevent them from getting a second contract? I honestly don't know.
Is there a legal obligation to play under any and all circumstances contained within the standard NCAA scholarship agreement? If, say, Zion were to state "My knee doesn't feel right and it needs rest" would he be in violation of his scholarship? Would Duke demand he play anyhow? Require independent medical testing?
I honestly don't know.
But a copy of an athletic aid agreement I found online (link below) states that an athlete can lose his/her scholarship if he/she withdraws from the sport before the first competition of the season, but nothing about withdrawing 3/4 of the way through the season. So, unless Duke's standard agreement differs from this one, it would appear Zion would not be violating his scholarship agreement if he stepped away now.
Likewise, if this were a violation, why didn't Ohio State pursue some sort of action against Nick Bosa? Or Stanford against Christian McCaffery? Just because of the bad optics, maybe? Or because there's no actual violation?
I'm not going to read the CBA now, but there's some obvious answers why he wouldn't get a second contract.
1) Having not fulfilled the terms of his first contract, thereby nullifying it, any subsequent contract remains his "first" contract? In fact, the team that drafts him would likely retain his rights under this scenario.
2) What team is going to give a substantial second contract to a guy who hasn't played competitive ball at the top level in more than four years? He'd get a deal, but nobody is giving a max contract. The player would make substantially more money playing out his rookie contract and then receiving the maximum possible on his second deal.
Do you guys know how silly it sounds to legitimately suggest Zion - or any other player - would sit out four years?
https://www.athleticscholarships.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Example-Athletic-Aid-Agreement.pdf
The sponsorship thing I get, though I think they may let those infractions slide once the rookie contract is up and the player starts playing again.
And in the meantime the player loses four years of endorsement money - and a boatload of positive public perception - that can never be recovered.
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That he's at worst the 3rd pick in the NBA Draft this season even if he does shred his knee.
I just love the reaction to this. The guy has a minor knee sprain and may not miss a single game because of it, yet he needs to stop playing immediately or he's risking millions of dollars...even though he's still going to get those millions of dollars even if he does blow out his knee, which he won't.
If Duke or Kentucky cared 1 iota about their players they'd just fold their seasons. Make sure the kids are healthy.
I'd argue Ja Morant, RJ Barrett, Cam Reddish, etc. are risking far more than Zion is by playing. By a wide margin really.
Ever heard of reductio ad absurdum?
I do understand that you feel qualified to make Zion's decisions for him and believe you know what's better for him than he and his family. That's fine. But I'm OK with letting him decide.
And just to be clear, I'm pretty sure nobody here - and certainly not me - has said " he needs to stop playing immediately." I just happen to believe he can decide to do what he believes is best.
Crazy, I know.
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Ever heard of reductio ad absurdum?
I do understand that you feel qualified to make Zion's decisions for him and believe you know what's better for him than he and his family. That's fine. But I'm OK with letting him decide.
And just to be clear, I'm pretty sure nobody here - and certainly not me - has said " he needs to stop playing immediately." I just happen to believe he can decide to do what he believes is best.
Crazy, I know.
That's my exact point lol. The guy has a minor knee sprain and the entire world goes up in arms and says he needs to sit. There's absolutely, positively nothing out there that is suggesting that has even crossed Zion's mind. You're living under a rock if you're arguing nobody is suggesting Zion needs to sit out the rest of the year. It's everywhere, over a minor knee sprain.
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This thread has gone the way of Zion's busted shoe. It's worthless.
Not so subtle reminder to knock off political stuff too. Ruins it for everybody.