MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on January 20, 2019, 01:08:00 PM
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1. If MU had held their own on the boards, they win by 20. Wade said it well that boxing out is a lost art. Providence stayed in the game through their offensive rebounding. MU got outworked and had butterfingers. That was a problem early in the season, but had gotten better recently.
2. A tale of two halves..... of officiating. Very physical first half with a lot of contact not called. Lots of contact called to start the second half.
3. Joey may have hit his proverbial freshman wall. Sloppy and bad early. Got better late.
4. Providence was far more physical and aggressive. Daring the officials to call everything. They flung themselves at the offensive board with reckless abandon.
5. We can postpone Theo's coronation as best big in the BEast for a while. Found some guys his size to wrestle with and did not dominate. But he did block some shots and held his own. Fumbled away too many rebounds. He and Watson are going to be fun to watch beat on each other.
6. That whole debate about who would be our 8th player is now officially over.
7. Two airballs, Joe? And everybody on the floor knew it as soon as they left your hand.
8. I wonder if Heldt would have been a better option on Watson than Morrow? For the length, not the width. Ed got abused. Maybe still not 100%. A couple of nice dunks, though.
9. I liked how PC attacked and trapped out of their zone in spots. They quit doing it in the second half.
10. Markus wasn't sharp by his standards. Really boring 24 performance. I don't think MU wins today without him.
11. But MU toughed it out, came from 9 down in the first half, survived a BS tech on Morrow, survived the typical inconsistent officiating, survived getting dominated on the boards. A good team.
12. Welcome home, Dwyane. Thank you.
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TCB’d today, on to DePaul.
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Sam looked lost early against Diallos pressure
Boy did he heat up.
Made Diallo play his game with the post ups.
We are much better when Joey is on the floor
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Outscored them by 20 in the second half. Sure nice to be on the winning end and not the receiving end of that.
Also, mentioned this in the game thread but Providence is gonna be pretty damn good next year if they're healthy. They return everyone except Jackson I believe.
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11. Ed deserved the technical. He got up off the floor and shoved a Friar player.
15. Worst half of the year. Against a good team, they trail by 20+ at the half. Even so, I never had the feeling they would lose the game.
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Good teams find ways to win ugly when they don’t have their best games. Outside of Sam I didn’t think anyone played overly well.
Ed should play the Robert Jackson roll on offense. Just stand behind the basket right on the baseline until a driver draws his man to help and finish the drop off pass. He’s very good at that right around the rim. He is not good at catching it on the block and trying to make a post move.
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On 5. He did get 5 blocks. Altered a few others. He also didn't get credit for 2 more blocks that they called fouls on that were clean blocks.
If your bad game includes 5 blocks and 6 rebounds, I'll take that from a big any day. (Agree though, lets hold off on the "best big in the BE")
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Ed should play the Robert Jackson roll on offense. Just stand behind the basket right on the baseline until a driver draws his man to help and finish the drop off pass. He’s very good at that right around the rim. He is not good at catching it on the block and trying to make a post move.
Yes. Could not remember who that was, but that is the right comparison. Camp him down under the basket.
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PC is a lot better team than their 11-7 record would indicate. When they get their highly talented frosh back they'll start winning more games than they lose.
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Having Joey back in second half made huge difference. Ugly win, but got to protect at home.
Knew the streak of Theo not getting in foul trouble was going to end, but he came on strong with 4th foul entering the game. Very important substitution there.
Can’t get offensive fouls when you shoot airballs, four in first, one in second. Two by Joe C., who has some major issues in his game. 16 to 3 in offensive bounds, but many went off the greasy fingers of MU players.
Missed a lot of layups, maybe like 6 to 7? Strange.
No Cain, no Heldt, Joe C. only for a few minutes. Wojo cut rotation big time.
Nice comeback, protect the home court.
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Ooze used to camp out along the baseline and emerge for the dump off and dunk, too.
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That's considered a "blowout" win in the NET rankings correct?
Also, what was our free throw rate. I imagine it had to be pretty good.
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That's considered a "blowout" win in the NET rankings correct?
Also, what was our free throw rate. I imagine it had to be pretty good.
92% from the line (23/25).
Also it didn't feel like we were 10/22 from 3, at least to me.
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Take the win and move on. We are going to get every team's best shot. Top 20 ranking means we are an important potential win every game we play.
JC is not BE material. Really a shame. I was hoping for a few good minutes from him.
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First half was offensive.
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Ed should play the Robert Jackson roll on offense. Just stand behind the basket right on the baseline until a driver draws his man to help and finish the drop off pass. He’s very good at that right around the rim. He is not good at catching it on the block and trying to make a post move.
Wasn't a dissatisfaction with this type of role part of the reason that he transferred from Neb, though? I get that coaches coach and the players play, but maybe an agreement as to a broader role in the offense was part of the understanding when Wojo brought him in.
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Take the win and move on. We are going to get every team's best shot. Top 20 ranking means we are an important potential win every game we play.
JC is not BE material. Really a shame. I was hoping for a few good minutes from him.
Pretty crazy that most of us thought getting him was what was gonna really help us this year. Turns out we are pretty damn good without him and he’s just lost in BE play right now.
Boy we gonna be scary with Kobe and Greg available next year
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JC is not BE material. Really a shame. I was hoping for a few good minutes from him.
He’s fundamentally a pretty good player, he’s just not quick enough. The speed of the BE bothers him. He sees the game well and makes good cuts and good spacing, but he’s not a good shooter and not dynamic enough to create
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https://www.si.com/college-basketball/game/2090671/box-score
Preliminary box score.
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He’s fundamentally a pretty good player, he’s just not quick enough. The speed of the BE bothers him. He sees the game well and makes good cuts and good spacing, but he’s not a good shooter and not dynamic enough to create
He played 10 minutes today, probably 8 in the first half due to Joey's foul issues. No Joey foul issues, he might have played two in first and two in second. Took two shots, both uncontested and both were airballs. Wide-open airballs.
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https://www.si.com/college-basketball/game/2090671/box-score
Preliminary box score.
Kinda glad we whiffed on Kalif Young now.
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We didn't play well but still won. Mark of a good team.
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Clearly Joe C has the green light to shoot those - which means he's making them in practice. I don't need know if there's any way to overcome the mental block at this point, but would be great to have him in the role Wojo clearly wants for,him down the stretch.
That said, after his 2nd airball I think they ran the exact same play and Sacar nailed it.
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Providence wanted an ugly game and got it.
Credit to MU for overcoming and winning by double digits anyhow. This team is proving it can win different games in different wins and, dare I say it, will be dangerous come March.
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That's considered a "blowout" win in the NET rankings correct?
Also, what was our free throw rate. I imagine it had to be pretty good.
No. There's no such thing as a blowout win in NET. One part of the NET is capped at 10 pts, but winning by more a ton more than 10 is better for your NET than only 10.
FT rate was 46.3%, good for fifth best this year. We're at 35.6% for the year.
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JC will likely have a good moment here and there, but it should be painfully obvious by now that he's overmatched and a lost cause
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Providence is always a pain in the behind but I do love Ed Cooley, his presser was pretty great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-W_XCsruas
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Clearly Joe C has the green light to shoot those - which means he's making them in practice. I don't need know if there's any way to overcome the mental block at this point, but would be great to have him in the role Wojo clearly wants for,him down the stretch.
Idk about your green light because hes making them in practice idea
Theres a lot of guys on this forum that could probably hit 1 in 4. He clearly goosed out on us “lost his edge” and handed in the wings to bailey. Time to move on.
That said, after his 2nd airball I think they ran the exact same play and Sacar nailed it.
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That's considered a "blowout" win in the NET rankings correct?
Also, what was our free throw rate. I imagine it had to be pretty good.
That's only in rankings like KenPom....not the NET, at least as far as we know
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Can't give up on Chartouny. No other options. He needs a brain reboot.
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Providence is always a pain in the behind but I do love Ed Cooley, his presser was pretty great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-W_XCsruas
He talking 'bout Ft's! :o
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I hate it on the rare occasions whe Chartouney makes a 3 - it only encourages him to shoot more. Hate to say it, his numbers looked good preseason,
but this was a mistake. He had a couple of good games against the likes of Presbyterian, but he is in over his head. I’d rather see the frustrating Jamal, who at least has occasional extraordinary athletic moves.
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He talking 'bout Ft's! :o
Our free throw defense was elite today!
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Providence is always a pain in the behind but I do love Ed Cooley, his presser was pretty great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-W_XCsruas
Classy. His comments about youth were very apt in regards to MU the last couple of years. 'a tough out if you don't scout them.'
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Can't give up on Chartouny. No other options. He needs a brain reboot.
Plus Tax
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When was the last time we put a true garbage time walk-on the floor to close out the game in a game where healthy, dressed scholarship players (Cain, Heldt) did not get in the game?
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I hate it on the rare occasions whe Chartouney makes a 3 - it only encourages him to shoot more. Hate to say it, his numbers looked good preseason,
but this was a mistake. He had a couple of good games against the likes of Presbyterian, but he is in over his head. I’d rather see the frustrating Jamal, who at least has occasional extraordinary athletic moves.
You hate it when Chartouney makes a 3?
Lol.
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You hate it when Chartouney makes a 3?
Lol.
Joe has scored two points in the last three games and in Big East play he is 1 for 8 from three, the last one coming at SJU on 1/1/19.
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Maybe with JC it's his confidence. He picks up his dribble way too often. It's stifling.
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Joe has scored two points in the last three games and in Big East play he is 1 for 8 from three, the last one coming at SJU on 1/1/19.
So I’ll ask again. People hate when Chartouney makes a 3 pointer?
Lol.
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So I’ll ask again. People hate when Chartouney makes a 3 pointer?
Lol.
Weird. He needs to make a few, I want him to have confidence otherwise it is 4 on 5 when he is there.
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I hope JC figures it out but would not blame Wojo one bit if he starts to phase him out of the regular rotation. Bailey is coming on and Cain brings more to the table. We were able to supplement the loss of Howard’s ball handling vs GU with Sacar and Sam. I just don’t see much of a role for JC. He’s pretty terrible at everything right now and is scared with the ball in his hands
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I hope JC figures it out but would not blame Wojo one bit if he starts to phase him out of the regular rotation. Bailey is coming on and Cain brings more to the table. We were able to supplement the loss of Howard’s ball handling vs GU with Sacar and Sam. I just don’t see much of a role for JC. He’s pretty terrible at everything right now and is scared with the ball in his hands
On the contrary, Wojo needs to do everything possible to re-establish JC's confidence, and that sure as heck isn't going to happen with him glued to the bench.
Marquette won't be making a run in March - when the team will have to play on consecutive nights (BE tourney) or games within 48 hours (NCAA tourney) - with Markus running the point for 37 minutes a night.
Bailey and Cain may bring more to the table, but neither are capable of running the point. And while Sam did yeoman's work last week against Georgetown, I shiver at the thought of him trying to run the point against a quality defensive backcourt.
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Exactly. The strength of this team is the team. Chartouny is a part of the team. A confident Chartouny playing like he did at Fordham would be a great help. And, I think Matt should have gotten some run when Ed was getting abused.
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I watched the second half on tape this afternoon and was again pleased to see that as important as Markus is to our team, others can and do step up. Sam's a stud and the two Hausers are quite a pair.
Again, coaching is really important. Not sure what Coach Wojo said at halftime, but it worked. This team is beginning to show what it has and what it has is really pretty good.
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When was the last time we put a true garbage time walk-on the floor to close out the game in a game where healthy, dressed scholarship players (Cain, Heldt) did not get in the game?
I don’t recall which opponent it was, but a few games ago I thought the same thing when the walk-ons played at the end instead of Heldt.
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3 games in the next 10 games. Or 4 in 11. Markus and Morrow didn't look 100%. Need to get healthy. Need to get more contributions from more players.
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On the contrary, Wojo needs to do everything possible to re-establish JC's confidence, and that sure as heck isn't going to happen with him glued to the bench.
Marquette won't be making a run in March - when the team will have to play on consecutive nights (BE tourney) or games within 48 hours (NCAA tourney) - with Markus running the point for 37 minutes a night.
Bailey and Cain may bring more to the table, but neither are capable of running the point. And while Sam did yeoman's work last week against Georgetown, I shiver at the thought of him trying to run the point against a quality defensive backcourt.
He should get the minutes he earns. If he continues to play the way he has Wojo doesn’t have much choice
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On the contrary, Wojo needs to do everything possible to re-establish JC's confidence, and that sure as heck isn't going to happen with him glued to the bench.
Marquette won't be making a run in March - when the team will have to play on consecutive nights (BE tourney) or games within 48 hours (NCAA tourney) - with Markus running the point for 37 minutes a night.
Bailey and Cain may bring more to the table, but neither are capable of running the point. And while Sam did yeoman's work last week against Georgetown, I shiver at the thought of him trying to run the point against a quality defensive backcourt.
So...with that logic Cain should play and not be glued to the bench to regain his confidence. After all, Cain did not throw up two airballs today. BTW, Cartooney is not here next year while we will need Cain next year.
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So...with that logic Cain should play and not be glued to the bench to regain his confidence. After all, Cain did not throw up two airballs today. BTW, Cartooney is not here next year while we will need Cain next year.
Missed you in the second half of the game thread
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Missed you in the second half of the game thread
Was having a burger
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Chartouny leads the big east in highest turnover percentage at 34.1%, coming in at 10th worst in the nation as well. For a grad transfer PG who was expected to help lead the team, it's been a sad story so far. Feel for the guy, but he seems over matched and in his head especially in big east play so far.
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Cooley is a great coach. Threw everything at us that a team should in order to beat us. They just didn't have enough talent and experience.
We won another ugly game. This is extremely important. We seem to be able to win many ways.
Threes were falling - from lots of guys.
Joe C is lacking only confidence. Maybe put him in a Derrick kind of role for limited minutes. Play D, Run the point, no risk, no TO's, shoot only if you must with less than 5 on the shot clock. I think we could live with 4-8 minutes of that and give Markus a rest.
Nice adjustments by Wojo.
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I missed most of the first half. Caught the highlights.
Everyone remember when Theo got a T for yelling in the face of/in the direction of an opponent?
Why no T for diallo after he stole it, fast break dunk, then screamed in Markus' face and proceeded to step closer to Markus and follow him and continued yelling?
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The team responded at the half. Really impressed with how well the team can adjust this year. Wojo definitely deserves credit for that.
This is a really fun group. Love the next man up mentality.
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Good teams find ways to win ugly when they don’t have their best games. Outside of Sam I didn’t think anyone played overly well.
Ed should play the Robert Jackson roll on offense. Just stand behind the basket right on the baseline until a driver draws his man to help and finish the drop off pass. He’s very good at that right around the rim. He is not good at catching it on the block and trying to make a post move.
Yes—I said this a few games ago. Opposing teams are begging for Ed to shoot from 8-10’. When he posted up and faced the basket.....I said don’t shoot, don’t shoot.
Robert Jackson is a good offensive comp.
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JC is not BE material.
Absolutely brutal. Not happening for Joe.
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Was having a burger
Actually garlic parmesan buffalo wings.
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I missed most of the first half. Caught the highlights.
Everyone remember when Theo got a T for yelling in the face of/in the direction of an opponent?
Why no T for diallo after he stole it, fast break dunk, then screamed in Markus' face and proceeded to step closer to Markus and follow him and continued yelling?
I was thinking the same thing. Diallo was feelin himself a little too much that game. Sam schooled him numerous occasions in the second half.
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Joe C is lacking only confidence.
Unfortunately, that is not the only thing he is lacking. Poor shooting, ball handling, and poor passing come to mind.
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I missed most of the first half. Caught the highlights.
Everyone remember when Theo got a T for yelling in the face of/in the direction of an opponent?
Why no T for diallo after he stole it, fast break dunk, then screamed in Markus' face and proceeded to step closer to Markus and follow him and continued yelling?
There were a number of times Diallo seemed to get special treatment.
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Was having a burger
Hasselhoff style
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Unfortunately, that is not the only thing he is lacking. Poor shooting, ball handling, and poor passing come to mind.
He’s going to have himself a game before it’s all said and done and it’s going to be huge....paging Mike Kinsella.
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I missed most of the first half. Caught the highlights.
Everyone remember when Theo got a T for yelling in the face of/in the direction of an opponent?
Why no T for diallo after he stole it, fast break dunk, then screamed in Markus' face and proceeded to step closer to Markus and follow him and continued yelling?
I said the same thing. Later, Diallo scored on Sacar.......grabs the ball as it went through the hoop.....and puts it in Sacars lap on the floor. No call.
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JC has been hard to watch but I trust WOJO in his efforts to rebuild his confidence. The kid has shown in the past he can shoot but his head is clearly a mess. WOJO needs to bring him back to a viable level if possible. We need him if he is even an average PG. There will be a point here WOJO may abandon the effort if it doesn't progress. He did have a nice defensive play under the basket today, sadly 10 seconds later he screwed up.
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He’s going to have himself a game before it’s all said and done and it’s going to be huge....paging Mike Kinsella.
That would be fantastic. Anything he can do to move that needle in his direction would be welcome.
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Ooze used to camp out along the baseline and emerge for the dump off and dunk, too.
You are correct - it was Barro, not Jackson. Jackson was a classic low post/back to the basket guy who was the final four team's second leading scorer behind D Wade.
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You are correct - it was Barro, not Jackson. Jackson was a classic low post/back to the basket guy who was the final four team's second leading scorer behind D Wade.
Barro may have done the same thing but Rob absolutely played along the baseline behind the hoop. Look where he’s consistently positioned in our half court offense.
https://youtu.be/2IpOoIOFqdg
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You are correct - it was Barro, not Jackson. Jackson was a classic low post/back to the basket guy who was the final four team's second leading scorer behind D Wade.
They both did. Crean spoke about the name they had for the play, but it was by design for Jackson to camp out under the basket. Not to suggest he didn't also have back to basket moves, but Jackson did that play often.
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They both did. Crean spoke about the name they had for the play, but it was by design for Jackson to camp out under the basket. Not to suggest he didn't also have back to basket moves, but Jackson did that play often.
Jackson was a high scoring low post big man (a good deal of our offense ran through him) who occasionally was positioned behind the basket. That's not who Morrow is (or at least should be). I agree with Wades that he would be more effective if he was pretty much camped out behind the basket like Barro was.
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Love hearing the announcer go .......”sam hauser......from his brother”. After a score. Must be super fun for those boys
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Barro may have done the same thing but Rob absolutely played along the baseline behind the hoop. Look where he’s consistently positioned in our half court offense.
https://youtu.be/2IpOoIOFqdg
Traditional low post, occasionally comes out to the high post for a pick. When the ball rotates away from him or Wade drives the ball he'll sometimes slip into the alley behind the basket but he doesn't camp out there like Barro did. That's because he was an integral part of the offense and not just a guy in there for put backs or a drive and dish. Unlike Barro or Morrow, Jackson had a lot of moves in the low post.
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I said the same thing. Later, Diallo scored on Sacar.......grabs the ball as it went through the hoop.....and puts it in Sacars lap on the floor. No call.
Diallo also is the one who insert himself into the pile and got in Morrow's face leading to the T. Dude was a tremendous a** all game. Not even in the "man, he's tough but would love to have him", just a complete douche.
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Jackson was a high scoring low post big man (a good deal of our offense ran through him) who occasionally was positioned behind the basket. That's not who Morrow is (or at least should be). I agree with Wades that he would be more effective if he was pretty much camped out behind the basket like Barro was.
Agree with you Barro did it more, and that Jackson had some good low post moves. Both were positioned down there, Barro probably more due to his limitations.
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Diallo also is the one who insert himself into the pile and got in Morrow's face leading to the T. Dude was a tremendous a** all game. Not even in the "man, he's tough but would love to have him", just a complete douche.
I thought the same. I was pretty surprised. I didn’t remember anything about him being like that. I respect his game but he for sure should have gotten a T on that dunk.
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I know there is a separate thread in stog where sam gets his nod but I can’t believe I read through all this with very little mention of him.
First half was one of the worst of the year, second half was great. Marquette chipped away until they got in position and then took control under the 8 min mark.
Markus was awesome for a dude coming off a dnp. Couldn’t believe it when I looked at the box and saw 4/15. Kid had an excellent game and was strong, some big boards and drew big fouls.
Imo that was one of sams best games at Marquette. Not so much what he did, but more how he did it. He came on huge in the second half and made some contested and tough shots exactly when the team needed. He carried the team late and seemed to take on a leadership role, it was awesome to see. I’ve been harsh on him for being so passive but I’ve said it before- the second that Creighton shot went in my wife popped up and said ‘maybe that’ll help him turn the corner!’ He’s playing like a rejuvenated man right when the team needs it.
Odd ends and notes-
-weird to see wojo not use heldt at all, or Cain, especially in a game he could’ve used them. He will need help late outside the main guys so I hope he plays that smart.
-There were some awesome passes over the press tonight. Markus made an awesome pass to Joey in the first half during a stall in scoring and he hit a 3. A picture perfect press break late in the game w Sam/Markus/sacar for another Joey 3.
-Sam seemed to be giving Markus some tough love a few times today and was demonstrative in not getting the ball early. It was pissing me off cause when he got it he was passive, but then the 2H happened and they seemed great. The Hauser brothers relationship on the court seems very workmanlike and they push each other, but I wonder if Sam needs to take on the loving big bro coddle approach later this season to get Joey to have more fun and loosen up to hit another gear
Another awesome game to be at, We Are Marquette!
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A few thoughts on Chartouny:
Turnovers
No disagreement here -- he's been way too loose with the ball. Is there any light at then end of the tunnel? In 7 games against Top 50 opponents, his turnover rate has been just 19.7% per KenPom. We need him to be a more reliable ball handler the rest of the way.
Outside shooting
Joseph has only taken 32 threes to date, 6th most on the team. He only shoots when he's wide open. And he's actually hit 34.4% of them, slightly higher than his career average (32.5%). I'm okay with that. By the way, he's shooting far better than either Vander Blue (27.7% for his career) or Junior Cadougan (22.1%) from long range.
Defense
Joseph's on-ball defense has looked strong to me. His steal rate (2.6%) is way down from his time at Fordham (5.6% last season). However, it's still best on the team. And I don't think Wojo's defense emphasizes steals much, anyway -- the team's steal percentage (7.2%) is ranked 301st in the country. The emphasis is more on playing good man-to-man defense and contesting shots.
I'll admit that I expected him to perform better. But he has made an important contribution to the team's success so far.
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Well that’s a hot take
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On another note, impressed with just 6 team turnovers for Marquette today. That's a season low -- and only the third time we've finished in single digits (committed 8 against Wisconsin and 9 against Louisville).
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By the way, Chartouny had 3 assists today with no turnovers -- plus a steal and a defensive rebound. Not bad for 10 minutes on the court. Perhaps something to build on.
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Chartouny hasn't been what I hoped he would be....but he's not nearly as bad as some seem to think. Two sides in basketball, can't just look at one of them.
I wouldn't count Cain out yet. I think in this kind of game Wojo couldn't trust him not to lose the ball. Think he will get some run in other matchups.
Agreed with others that I would have given Heldt a try against Watson with Theo in foul trouble and Ed getting abused. But it all worked out so I can't complain too much.
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I guess I can take offense at your Theo John comment...
GIVE HIM THE DAMN BALL! I sat up close the entire first half and it was obvious. Maybe I should sit further back as I did in the old Bradley Center in the 400 section so things do not seem so clear to me...and I whine less.
But what do you mean it is too early to coronate him best big in the Big East? They could not get on track early because they should have been feeding the post and going inside out with the way Providence was playing and how physical they were.
Don't judge him by this one game. I was sitting next to his folks and we were looking at each other wondering why they were not at least getting some paint touches to draw up some attention down low and free up the perimeter shooters.
MU did not use Theo like Providence used their big
Theo is a difference maker. Quick off his feet to challenge shots. great hands to catch entry passes if and when they are thrown and once he has the rebound, by and large, he does not fumble it. And he passes well and is locked in.
Plus he was called for some weak touch fouls that were ridiculous. He is open all the time on screen and rolls on the high post! PASS IT!!! When he rolls, he has his hands up and is rolling to the rim to finish, pass it dont dance on the perimeter!
Once MU gets that dimension of using the big man with the shooters they will dangerous. His confidence is high. Lets go.
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By the way, Chartouny had 3 assists today with no turnovers -- plus a steal and a defensive rebound. Not bad for 10 minutes on the court. Perhaps something to build on.
Anyone could have done that...a non factor.
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Good teams find ways to win ugly when they don’t have their best games. Outside of Sam I didn’t think anyone played overly well.
Ed should play the Robert Jackson roll on offense. Just stand behind the basket right on the baseline until a driver draws his man to help and finish the drop off pass. He’s very good at that right around the rim. He is not good at catching it on the block and trying to make a post move.
How do you know!? They dont use their bigs like that....they should more.
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They posted up Theo on one of the first couple of possessions. He threw up a near airball from 5 feet. They have been getting him the ball with regularity. And he has improved greatly. I enjoy watching him and his energy. Watson is as big and strong as Theo. They had a great match up. Theo was unable to physically dominate him. 27 minutes, 6 rebounds, 5 blocks. Only credited with one turnover, but there were at least two rebounds that he fumbled away that were not credited as turnovers. So be it. I am in no way turning on the kid. He is only getting better.
Providence was only in this game because of their work on the offensive boards. Defensive rebounding has to be a team effort but it is telling that Markus had more rebounds than Theo. It is OK. The strength of the team is the team. And Theo is a huge and growing part of the reason why this team is doing so well.
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MU did not use Theo like Providence used their big
And that's good. Theo is good for a change up, but the offense needs to flow through others.
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Theo does not get as many rebounds as he could. He goes flying at every interior shot in an attempt to block the shot, not saying this is bad, in fact i belive the coaches want him to do this and then send the other 4 in to help rebound. When the other team has a good big this at times can leave 4 “smalls” trying to get rebounds with an opposing big already in position. I think going forward Theo can improve his decision making in what shots he can block or intimidate n which ones he cant n should stay back n fight for rebounding position.
Additionally, while his offensive accumen has grown exponentially, he is still not much of an option or threat on a post up. On a pick n roll or a drive draw and dish?, yes. His post moves are ok at best and he is a black hole. I think by next year at this griwth rate he can be more of an option next year.
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Theo does not get as many rebounds as he could. He goes flying at every interior shot in an attempt to block the shot, not saying this is bad, in fact i belive the coaches want him to do this and then send the other 4 in to help rebound. When the other team has a good big this at times can leave 4 “smalls” trying to get rebounds with an opposing big already in position. I think going forward Theo can improve his decision making in what shots he can block or intimidate n which ones he cant n should stay back n fight for rebounding position.
Additionally, while his offensive accumen has grown exponentially, he is still not much of an option or threat on a post up. On a pick n roll or a drive draw and dish?, yes. His post moves are ok at best and he is a black hole. I think by next year at this griwth rate he can be more of an option next year.
This was proven false by advanced metrics in a previous thread discussing theo's rebound numbers vs block attempts.
Further, I believe some teams employ a strategy of using their 5 as a pure block out man and letting the other 4 players go for the rebound. For example, Otule's and Gardner's rebound numbers weren't great. But their role was to prevent their man from getting to the ball.
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As Wade commented during the game, boxing out has become a lost art. Why is that?
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This was proven false by advanced metrics in a previous thread discussing theo's rebound numbers vs block attempts.
Further, I believe some teams employ a strategy of using their 5 as a pure block out man and letting the other 4 players go for the rebound. For example, Otule's and Gardner's rebound numbers weren't great. But their role was to prevent their man from getting to the ball.
Well, to be fair, Gardner could not rebound outside his immediate area and Chris, due to his ocular limitations, could not react to a ball rapidly changing directions, so his best option was to create as much space as he could for teammates.
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On another note, impressed with just 6 team turnovers for Marquette today. That's a season low -- and only the third time we've finished in single digits (committed 8 against Wisconsin and 9 against Louisville).
Excellent point about the turnovers. Markus, Theo and Joey had TO's in the first half that were uncharacteristic as they just bobbled them. Very impressive taking care of the ball.
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JC's assists were nullified by his absolute air ball shots I believe both resulted in baskets and also on the resulting fast break was backing away from the opponent and gave him a little love tap just enough to get the and 1 called but zero percent chance of contesting the shot. We need to move on and limit him only for breathers for guys ready to play D1 big east basketball.
Maybe he can gain some confidence back if we ever manage to get garbage time at the end of a game.
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So...with that logic Cain should play and not be glued to the bench to regain his confidence. After all, Cain did not throw up two airballs today. BTW, Cartooney is not here next year while we will need Cain next year.
Not remotely analogous.
There are multiple alternatives to Cain on the wing (Bailey, Joey, even Sacar) when Sam needs a rest. When Markus needs a rest ... who's your point if not JC? You want Sam running the point in a tournament game?
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Marquette has 3 TOs in the first 4 minutes. 3 more over the next 36.
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Chartouny's minutes have decreased since BE play has begun. Wojo is seeing his limitations and reacting to them. If Elliott were here, he would probably have JC nailed to the bench. But he's not and he can still play the back up PG role.
Sam and Sacar did fine against Georgetown, who didn't pressure the ball well. I would rather have JC then them for most opponents.
However he has clearly been a disappointment. Of the graduate transfers MU has landed, he has been by far the most limited.
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Marquette scored on 9 consecutive possessions from the 6:30 mark to the 1:30 mark in the 2nd half. They scored 23 points on those possessions.
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Marquette scored on 9 consecutive possessions from the 6:30 mark to the 1:30 mark in the 2nd half. They scored 23 points on those possessions.
Pretty sure there was about a 9 possession stretch in the first half where we didn't score.
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I’m not trying to defend JC cause yes he has been a bit off. But in this game he had some good assists and I do remember 2 very good defensive plays. One of which in the second half I believe, he saw a guy cutting on a low screen and was able to get a hand on the ball which lead to a steal and points on our end when the game was close.
That screen he stepped into and got the steal on, that was the same play that Sam had gotten burned on about 3 times in the first half.
So has he been what we hoped? Nope, but has he been better than most are likely giving him credit for. Yes.
But you can’t have him out there a ton when he’s a bit of a liability on offense.
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Pretty sure there was about a 9 possession stretch in the first half where we didn't score.
We were stuck on 14 for what seemed like 2 days.
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There seems to be a lot of negativity here following IMO a pretty solid win. We had our worst offensive half at the FiFo, and were only down 8 because of our D. Last year, if we only score 25 in a half, we're probably down 15-25.
Wojo has said it since the beginning of the season; "the strength of our team is our team". There was no Ed against Gtown, and Theo stepped up and had a big game. Against PC, Theo struggled with foul trouble, and Ed had an extremely efficient 9 points in 13 minutes. We should look less at what Ed vs Theo produce, and look more at what Ed + Theo produce. 11 points, 5 blocks, 7 boards from our Center spot is fine.
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There seems to be a lot of negativity here following IMO a pretty solid win. We had our worst offensive half at the FiFo, and were only down 8 because of our D. Last year, if we only score 25 in a half, we're probably down 15-25.
Wojo has said it since the beginning of the season; "the strength of our team is our team". There was no Ed against Gtown, and Theo stepped up and had a big game. Against PC, Theo struggled with foul trouble, and Ed had an extremely efficient 9 points in 13 minutes. We should look less at what Ed vs Theo produce, and look more at what Ed + Theo produce. 11 points, 5 blocks, 7 boards from our Center spot is fine.
Agreed on all fronts. Including how dead some of the crowd was. It almost feels like the fan base sees us as a winning team in the top 15 so we shouldn’t have to cheer or try to lift up the team. Have gotten awfully greedy for a team that just a few seasons ago was dead in the water rebuilding.
I also love your Ed comments. There was a guy sitting two rows behind me at the game yelling “get Ed the F out of there! He’s terrible!” Clearly not realizing that he had 9 points and was doing solid relief work.
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Here's the thing about the 'quiet crowd'. When things go a little stale on the court, folks get a little nervous, not disinterested.
Every weekend conference game from here on out will be a freakin' sellout or darn near close. Tickets on the secondary market are routinely going for above face (sometimes way above). That's the mark of a successful program that has a fully engaged fanbase.
I'm not going to go find the quote but Al always looked up in the corner nosebleeds to see how he was doing.
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My seats are next to a lovely older fan who knows her MU basketball (season ticket holder forever), but has one horrible, consistent take.
She calls Theo "soft."
:o
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I think the design of the forum has something to do with less "buzz" if you will. From the curtains to the "acoustic matting designed seats" etc.
I was in the nosebleeds, there really aren't any anymore, but at some point you could hear the coaches clear as day on the floor , it was actually impressive.
Was sitting in a section with quite a few providence fans and they were commenting on how you could hear a pin drop in there.
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I was in the crowd, and thought it was great most of the game.
Very much enjoyed my first Fiserv experience. We were in the 200 level, directly up from the MU bench. and could see everything very well. Much better than upper-level seats at the old place would have been. My section was loud and engaged most of the game. Yeah, there were some grumbles and "come on!"s when we were struggling in the first half, but for the most part there were lots of people on their feet, cheering and high-fiving -- especially as our gallant lads took charge in the second half. I'm going to Wednesday's game, too, and will have much better seats, so I'll be interested in seeing the difference. But I'm impressed big-time.
Sam did in the second half exactly what we needed him to do. Scored, battled their star, got Diallo into foul trouble. Incredible leadership, poise, intelligence and skill shown.
Morrow can't get that T. Could have been crushing for us - we were already down 7 and that could have just handed Providence 5 points. Luckily, Diallo missed a FT and Monroe missed the 3. Ed is not a kid; he's in his 4th year of college, gotta be more disciplined.
JCS obviously lacks confidence, which leads to poor play (especially shooting), which leads to more lost confidence. It's a vicious cycle. I agree with those who say Wojo has little choice against most teams but to keep giving JCS a few minutes here and there because Markus needs some breaks. I also agree that JCS does make a few good defensive plays. But as one of those who urged patience early on, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed.
Theo did just fine. The ball didn't come his way much on offense, and like others he seemed to have fumble-fingers on some rebounds, but he did his primary job. I am no less enthused about his future than I was 2 days ago.
How many would have guessed that we'd go 23-25 from FT line and that Markus would have the 2 misses?
Markus persevered. Wasn't his best game, but he drew a ton of fouls and was there to grab rebounds as the bigs battled. Great example of an outstanding player making a major contribution despite not being at his best. It's what All-Americans do.
Sacar quietly had a good game. He's the kind of role players good teams need.
Props to Wojo. Seemed to make a concerted effort to get the ball inside to Sam in the second half, a strategy that helped change the game. Made us less 3-pointer-centric, got Sam going, got fouls on Diallo and others, opened things up for the shooters, put Friars on their heels. Team played with better defensive intensity, too.
Agree with those who say Heldt could have gotten a few minutes -- as a change of pace and Theo/Ed foul-saver, if nothing else. But that's a pretty minor quibble for me, and it turned out to not be necessary.
Also agree with those who say Providence looks to be a formidable team down the road, if not later this season then next.
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Ooze used to camp out along the baseline and emerge for the dump off and dunk, too.
Yes, this is how Crean used every big he had on offense
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Kinda glad we whiffed on Kalif Young now.
What do you mean? Just let Todd Smith have him for a year and he'd be All Big East!
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My seats are next to a lovely older fan who knows her MU basketball (season ticket holder forever), but has one horrible, consistent take.
She calls Theo "soft."
:o
Glow and I ran into a former section-mate and his bride on Sunday. I am guessing they are both seventy-somethings. Theo is her favorite player. Her husband said, "Yeah, she likes all of his muscles" as she blushed.
This year we have a woman sitting behind us who gasps every time the ball is in the air for any reason
Markus shoots it - *GASP*
Sam passes it to Joey - *GASP*
Opponent accidentally sends the ball out of bounds - *GASP*
I would gladly trade her for your "Theo is soft" lady.
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Glow and I ran into a former section-mate and his bride on Sunday. I am guessing they are both seventy-somethings. Theo is her favorite player. Her husband said, "Yeah, she likes all of his muscles" as she blushed.
This year we have a woman sitting behind us who gasps every time the ball is in the air for any reason
Markus shoots it - *GASP*
Sam passes it to Joey - *GASP*
Opponent accidentally sends the ball out of bounds - *GASP*
I would gladly trade her for your "Theo is soft" lady.
Ah, it could be worse. You could have 4ever next to you and have to listen to him!
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I'm in 225 and aside from one guy who consistently screams profanity when we turn the ball over or fail to secure a rebound, the basketball IQ seems pretty high. Pretty sure there are a couple of Scoop/CS guys in that section as well
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Ah, it could be worse. You could have 4ever next to you and have to listen to him!
(https://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/good-point-gif-2.gif)
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I'm in 225 and aside from one guy who consistently screams profanity when we turn the ball over or fail to secure a rebound, the basketball IQ seems pretty high. Pretty sure there are a couple of Scoop/CS guys in that section as well
I definitely rechecked my section number to make sure loud cursing person wasnt me.
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I'm in 225 and aside from one guy who consistently screams profanity when we turn the ball over or fail to secure a rebound, the basketball IQ seems pretty high. Pretty sure there are a couple of Scoop/CS guys in that section as well
There are three reasons I prefer to watch at home.
1. Macallan 18
2. Couches
3. Won't offend anyone when I'm cursing.
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There are three reasons I prefer to watch at home.
1. Macallan 18
2. Couches
3. Won't offend anyone when I'm cursing.
The 18 is child's play 21 or bust
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There are three reasons I prefer to watch at home.
1. Macallan 18
2. Couches
3. Won't offend anyone when I'm cursing.
The cursing isn't offensive to me at all, and the only children near us are babies with earmuffs so I say curse away!
The volume could be lowered, though.
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Glow and I ran into a former section-mate and his bride on Sunday. I am guessing they are both seventy-somethings. Theo is her favorite player. Her husband said, "Yeah, she likes all of his muscles" as she blushed.
This year we have a woman sitting behind us who gasps every time the ball is in the air for any reason
Markus shoots it - *GASP*
Sam passes it to Joey - *GASP*
Opponent accidentally sends the ball out of bounds - *GASP*
I would gladly trade her for your "Theo is soft" lady.
She really is a delight. Used to go with her husband until this year, and now he is unable to make it to the games. I had a nephew who is a junior at MU join me at one game and a nephew who is an 8th grader at another, and she loves chatting with them- but at least it was all about the bball!
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I'm in 225 and aside from one guy who consistently screams profanity when we turn the ball over or fail to secure a rebound, the basketball IQ seems pretty high.
Older guy in like the 4th/5th row? Dude loves picking on Theo and Markus, especially.
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Older guy in like the 4th/5th row? Dude loves picking on Theo and Markus, especially.
I never have looked directly, but yes that sounds correct. We're in the 3rd row and he is definitely within two rows of us.
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The 18 is child's play 21 or bust
Envious.
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We were stuck on 14 for what seemed like 2 days.
You and Chick got to a lot of home games. I'm curious to know which visiting team has the most alum/fans at our home games. I ask because when I go to see MU at the Rock in Newark or when we use to play Rutgers at the RAC in Piscataway there were usually about 500 MU alums at the games.
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The 18 is child's play 21 or bust
I just won a gift basket at a charity event that filled up some of my cabinet with fresh stock. A couple of 20 year old bourbons and a whistle pig variety setup (10/12/15). Better for after-victory drinks. Too stressed during games to enjoy a good whiskey.
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I'm in 225 and aside from one guy who consistently screams profanity when we turn the ball over or fail to secure a rebound, the basketball IQ seems pretty high. Pretty sure there are a couple of Scoop/CS guys in that section as well
We were in 224 yesterday. I hope I wasn't too loud!
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You and Chick got to a lot of home games. I'm curious to know which visiting team has the most alum/fans at our home games. I ask because when I go to see MU at the Rock in Newark or when we use to play Rutgers at the RAC in Piscataway there were usually about 500 MU alums at the games.
That's a tough one and of course I'm excluding Bucky. Butler comes to mind because they have somewhat of a common market here in Chicago making the MKE game doable for alums. We have friends who have kids that went there so there's crossover, for sure.
I know this isn't your question but I was thoroughly impressed Carroll contingency that showed up. They had really good numbers and had a helluva time. It was fun to watch.
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Fracking Louisville fans would show up everywhere.
I remember them filling up two whole sections in the lower part of the AL for the volleyball conference tournament.
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Chitown's right. They absolutely travel.
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Any reason to leave Kentucky is a good one.
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Funny little truth about Charty...
In 7 KenPom Tier A games this season, he's got an ORtg of 111, is shooting 52% eFG%, has a 15% DR%, and a sub-20% turnover rate.
He's had some solid, role-playing games.
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Funny little truth about Charty...
In 7 KenPom Tier A games this season, he's got an ORtg of 111, is shooting 52% eFG%, has a 15% DR%, and a sub-20% turnover rate.
He's had some solid, role-playing games.
Yes, but he is struggling recently.
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I’m not trying to defend JC cause yes he has been a bit off. But in this game he had some good assists and I do remember 2 very good defensive plays. One of which in the second half I believe, he saw a guy cutting on a low screen and was able to get a hand on the ball which lead to a steal and points on our end when the game was close.
That screen he stepped into and got the steal on, that was the same play that Sam had gotten burned on about 3 times in the first half.
So has he been what we hoped? Nope, but has he been better than most are likely giving him credit for. Yes.
But you can’t have him out there a ton when he’s a bit of a liability on offense.
He was oustanding against Creighton
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Yes, but he is struggling recently.
That is certainly true. But think back to a stretch in December when Sam was really off his game. Charty needs to keep his head up and continue working hard. We need him.
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That is certainly true. But think back to a stretch in December when Sam was really off his game. Charty needs to keep his head up and continue working hard. We need him.
We should manufacture a last second catch and shoot for Chartouney against DePaul. Get the scoreboard operator to shave 20 points off of our score with less than a second left and let nature take over.
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Fracking Louisville fans would show up everywhere.
I remember them filling up two whole sections in the lower part of the AL for the volleyball conference tournament.
They used to fill 2-3 sections in the uppers @ the BC too. 1 year when buying my tickets I inquired if we could have seats NOT near the Louisville sections and was basically told "Tell me about it, they bring several buses every year". Most years they were led in C-A-R-D-S cheers by some yahoo in the aisles.
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I'm not going to go find the quote but Al always looked up in the corner nosebleeds to see how he was doing.
I mentioned that on Twitter. The quote was about looking to the upper deck corners, I think, and that if they were full he knew he was doing his job. And by that measure, Wojo was doing his job Sunday morning.