MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: PuertoRicanNightmare on January 16, 2019, 08:42:49 AM
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Is anybody else not surprised at how well guys, particularly Sam, played last night?
Howard is a scoring machine, but I do think he shoots entirely too much and his dominating of the ball and poor decision making negatively affects the other guys on the team. Is he, at times, a great scorer? Of course. Is he a great guy to play with? That’s debatable.
I believe Sam Hauser is a potential all Big East type player and has been for a couple years. But our guards (including Rowsey last year) do not put him in a position to succeed all the time. Is that on Sam? Wojo? Howard? I don’t know the answer. I just think Howard is a huge conundrum...fun to watch, maybe not so fun to play alongside.
That was a cohesive, unselfish team that won last night.
By the way, Sacar is about as unappreciated a Marquette player as we’ve had in a long, long time. He brings it every single night.
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IMO, the Hauser boys were licking their chops when Howard went down. There have been several times over the past month that I have felt Sam is frustrated with Howard and high shot output. Late in the Buffalo game it looked like when Sam got the ball he was going to pass it to anyone but Howard. No doubt in mind that Hauser boys are legit college big time college players.
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I've long held the belief that Markus is not selfish, he just doesn't know how to play otherwise. He is what he is; an incredible scorer with limited court vision, below average handles and not much of a defender. But all that being said there seems to be an incredible bond between Howard and the Hausers. I've heard he's the 3rd brother, spends a lot of time in Stevens Point, etc. I don't get the sense the team minds Markus being Markus.
It's great to see others shine, but a truly deep run is going to require some Howard magic.
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I've long held the belief that Markus is not selfish, he just doesn't know how to play otherwise.
This is a great way to put it. It’s “his game.”
I actually think Wojo has tried his damnedest to change it, even benching him at times last year, but a leopard can’t change its spots.
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I think that the Hausers love playing with Markus. And vice versa.
It also can be true that Sam enjoyed the opportunity to be the first option last night.
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Guys
I do not think the Hauser's have any negative feelings towards Howard. My feeling is simple, all guys want the ball. From time to time, the Hauser's get shutdown on the offensive side of the ball, by a teammate, and getting frustrated would be normal, IMO. By not means do I think there is bad chemistry.
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IMO, the Hauser boys were licking their chops when Howard went down. There have been several times over the past month that I have felt Sam is frustrated with Howard and high shot output.
That's just silly. As soon as the clock went to 0, Sam ran straight to Markus and they gave each other a big hug. It was a beautiful sight.
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Bubba
Read my last post.
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Yeah I’m not buying it.
Sure, Sam probably wants the ball more and I’ve even said we should run through him more.
But there’s definitely no real animosity. Those guys are best buds.
It was great seeing Sam as the go to guy and relish the role(all though I didn’t like that we had him wasting shot clock to do a Markus chuck at the end of it). Sometimes in games Sam doesn’t seem 100% aggressive. It was great to see that when he needed to be the guy, he did it
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So, just for clarification, are a few of y'all saying we're a better team without Markus?
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Wojo has tacitly addressed this. Paraphrasing.. we have a thick playbook. But when Markus gets that look in his eye, we throw out the playbook.
You do that for a transcendent scorer. Last night, they went back to the playbook, ran the sets, and played ball. Celebrate that the team stepped up and took a big step forward. Don't invent a rift that doesn't exist in nature.
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I’m not surprised that Sam’s production sky rocketed with MH’s absence, but I put his lack of production while Markus is on the floor more on Sam than Markus. He defers too often. Hopefully last night was a big reminder for himself that if he’s aggressive good things happen
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So, just for clarification, are a few of y'all saying we're a better team without Markus?
No
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I've long held the belief that Markus is not selfish, he just doesn't know how to play otherwise. He is what he is; an incredible scorer with limited court vision, below average handles and not much of a defender. But all that being said there seems to be an incredible bond between Howard and the Hausers. I've heard he's the 3rd brother, spends a lot of time in Stevens Point, etc. I don't get the sense the team minds Markus being Markus.
It's great to see others shine, but a truly deep run is going to require some Howard magic.
The challenge for Markus in my view is figuring out when to share the ball. He has a unique ability to create shots that most guys can't. On top of that, he hits a good percentage of the shots he takes. I don't remember the exact quote, but a NBA player once said the most amazing thing about Jordan is not the 35 pts he scores a night, its the fact he can get free to get up the number of shots he is able to despite everyone trying to shut him down. I'm not comparing Markus to Michael obviously, but I think there is a learning process in terms of not every shot you "can" take being a shot you "should" take. I have seen numerous times this year where Sam in particular is spotted up in a corner wide open and Markus either takes a tough shot or pounds numerous dribbles trying to probe the D and get a challenged layup. Sam has shown frustration at that at times, but at the same time Markus often hits those tough shots so to me it's an ongoing process for Markus to make decisions on the fly rather than being one track minded at times not out of selfishness, but just being focused on what he is trying to create. The multiple weapons we have with quality spot up shooters is a huge strength of the team that we probably could utilize a little more, but Markus is so good at times it almost becomes irrelevant in those instances.
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Wojo has tacitly addressed this. Paraphrasing.. we have a thick playbook. But when Markus gets that look in his eye, we throw out the playbook.
You do that for a transcendent scorer. Last night, they went back to the playbook, ran the sets, and played ball. Celebrate that the team stepped up and took a big step forward. Don't invent a rift that doesn't exist in nature.
Plus Tax.
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Lotsa Scoopers clamor for Wojo to sign 5-stars. What do they think most 5-stars like Markus (who might have been a 5-star if he hadn't reclassified and certainly plays like a 5-star now) and Henry do? They dominate the basketball. They didn't become 5-stars by setting screens and handing the ball to teammates. That's what Heldt and Derrick Wilson are for. You want a 5-star, you have to expect him to play like a 5-star.
Markus is who he is. A ball-dominant, shoot-first PG. When he is in a zone, he is going to keep firing -- and thank goodness.
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So what you're saying is when one star on a team goes down other people produce more? Well damn! That's crazy!
You don't just assume, "Well, Markus is out, subtract his 26 points plus the 8-16 points we'd get from his turnovers from our final score." Opportunities open up for other players when a star goes down. That's the least surprising thing ever, so no, I don't think anyone is surprised. When Giannis is out guys like Bledsoe, Brogdon, Middleton, and Lopez have the opportunity to step up. That doesn't mean Giannis makes Bledsoe, Brogdon, Middleton, and Lopez worse, it just means they might score a bit less, but also score more easily when Giannis is in.
That game is never in doubt if Markus plays last night.
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That game is never in doubt if Markus plays last night.
This. We'll never know, of course, but I'm guessing we win by 10+ if Markus is 100%.
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I think to say MU is a better team without Markus is foolish. What i think could be said is if Markus had better court vision and a little more willingness or ability to pass we may be even better.
Often times, Markus has wide open teammates, especially in PNR situations, yet forces up a difficult shot. As was demostrated last night, the roller, theo, is often absolutely wide open for dunks on those situations. A few more pasees gets everyone involved and helps engage his teammates offensively and defensively.
Now when Howard is going off its one thing, but on the other 10 games this year or the 7-28 nights, maybe kicking to a Hauser or even looking at a roller would make us a better team in my opinion.
If we had a compitent second ball handler looking to facilitate and Marcus off the ball i think we are a better offensive team. But that is not who we are this year.
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I'll be totally honest, I had a similar thought last night after the game.
Markus was really forcing things at the end of the Hall game, and put the blinders on a little bit. It'll be good for him to know that his guys are capable of making winning plays, and that he doesn't have to do it all.
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This. We'll never know, of course, but I'm guessing we win by 10+ if Markus is 100%.
Obviously we're a better (and more dangerous) team with Markus. With him in the lineup we can (not should, but can) beat anyone. Without him, several teams would be out of our reach.
The most likely scenario last night is the one you propose - with Markus, we cruise. But every once in a while bad Markus shows up and he's a net negative - so there is a scenario (5-22 fg, 5 TOs) where Markus plays last night and we lose. Unlikely, but possible.
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So, just for clarification, are a few of y'all saying we're a better team without Markus?
We are a better team when all are involved, which has been my comments for the last few months. We would be lights out if you could cut Howard’s shots by 20% and distribute them to the others.
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What this game revealed is that even if a team can shut down Markus we can still win.
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What this game revealed is that even if a team can shut down Markus we can still win.
If they shut Markus down and he still dominates the ball, MU is probably gonna lose.
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IMO, the Hauser boys were licking their chops when Howard went down. There have been several times over the past month that I have felt Sam is frustrated with Howard and high shot output. Late in the Buffalo game it looked like when Sam got the ball he was going to pass it to anyone but Howard. No doubt in mind that Hauser boys are legit college big time college players.
I've observed the same thing out of Sam and Joey. They've both let Markus know when they were open and he missed them, and I'm sure that plays out in the film room with the team as well.
Last night was the most enjoyable MU basketball I've watched in a long time. That said, I thought the first half of the Hall game was a great half of basketball by MU, and Markus looked as close to a scoring PG as I've seen from him...in the 2nd half it was a regression. If Markus can play like he did in the first half of the Hall game...MU is going to be tough.
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Lotsa Scoopers clamor for Wojo to sign 5-stars. What do they think most 5-stars like Markus (who might have been a 5-star if he hadn't reclassified and certainly plays like a 5-star now) and Henry do? They dominate the basketball. They didn't become 5-stars by setting screens and handing the ball to teammates. That's what Heldt and Derrick Wilson are for. You want a 5-star, you have to expect him to play like a 5-star.
Markus is who he is. A ball-dominant, shoot-first PG. When he is in a zone, he is going to keep firing -- and thank goodness.
Good post
I'll add by asking if anyone can name a first-team AA because of floor burns, boxing out and picks.
You want a first team AA ... this is what they look like.
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So, just for clarification, are a few of y'all saying we're a better team without Markus?
I think we can likely go further this year if the ‘others’ have a chance to carry the load. We become much more dangerous if we have 2-3 guys creating shots late in the season. That way one guy doesn’t have to be perfect.
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Regular, balanced scoring is good for this team. We need Markus, Sam and Joey all. hitting shots in a game. With Sacar, Theo, Morrow, Bailey etc doing their thing. Then we will be pretty unstoppable.
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I think we can likely go further this year if the ‘others’ have a chance to carry the load. We become much more dangerous if we have 2-3 guys creating shots late in the season. That way one guy doesn’t have to be perfect.
Well, that's easy to agree with, and I'm glad you feel that way.
Court vision a la Steve Nash or Magic Johnson is not Markus' strength, so one of the sacrifices our team might have to make some nights is that others won't get as involved -- especially if Markus is in his zone.
If this team is going to be at its very best in March, Markus has to recognize when he's not having a zone-a-riffic night and do his PG duties of getting others more involved. We'll see if he can.
It's also up to the other guys some. Sam, especially, has to be more assertive.
But as interesting and satisfying as last night's game was, nobody should be lulled into thinking that we are somehow better without Markus.
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Last nights win was awesome. Winning without Markus was huge and I think it will only help the team going forward. But let's not pretend it was some portent of things to come.
5 players scored.
Sam assumed the role of good Markus.
Joey assumed Sam's normal role, but with more turnovers.
Theo and Matt combined to give usual Theo and Ed numbers.
Bailey was the revelation, taking on Joey's normal role. He is the only one that really showed more than we had seen before.
Sacar was Sacar.
MU won a conference road game without Markus. To be celebrated. But don t think MU is better without him. MU beat the likely basement dweller.
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What occurs to me is that team has great parts. The sum of the parts is not yet optimized but is progressing. We have the raw talent to be a truly special team. Those players can and will continue to grow. I believe Markus is a young man of great character and intelligence, he will learn that when he is getting shut down, his best shot should go to Sam for a 3, Sacar for the drive or Theo for the dunk. I am certain WOJO is aggressively working towards those ends. The best part is this is the most entertaining and relevant that MU Basketball has been in a long time!
MU Special talent
Markus Howard - Elite Scorer at times unstoppable
Sam Hauser - NBA level talent
Joey hauser - NBA level talent brewing (FRESHMAN)
Theo John - Becoming a beast, leads in blocks, looks awesome on posters! (SOPHMORE!)
Sacar Anim - better every day - He's the guy that can break down a defense when the defense thinks they have us stymied!
Brendan Bailey - Crazy big upside - He is just relearning how to play at full speed!
The Others - Very good bench, a little worried whether JC can play at the same level the rest can.
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I actually thought many times during the game how it was good for Howard to see just how solid the team around him can be when they play together. Hopefully that leads to some better shot selection by him although I am also amazed how often he takes questionable shots and makes them. No one is perfect.
Also noticed that there were times when our shortest player out there was 6-5 (Anim). Our length was seriously disruptive to G'Town and made a huge difference defensively.
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I know when I'm annoyed with a coworker for taking on and often completing more tasks than me and I successfully complete several tasks in his/her absence, the first thing I do after my successful task is it to run right too them and give them a (gentle) hug. That demonstrates how annoyed I was with them.
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One thing I noticed about last nights game was the good job Sacar did at bringing the ball up and initiating the offense. It seemed to me that most of our runs occurred with Sacar as PG. Sam did ok as the PG but didn't seem nearly as comfortable with the token pressure (and GT could/should have put on much stronger pressure given our situation) as Sacar. We've been looking for a way to let Markus play more off the ball, to some degree "rest while in the game" and rotate in more forwards. Sacar at the point might be the answer (it certainly isn't going to be Joe C). i realize Sacar didn't have a particularly good game shooting but if Markus is on the court he probably wouldn't take as many of those shots. I've was critical of Sacar's offensive game in the Non Con, wondering when this 4th year player was going to start playing like an upper classman. The last few games Sacar has done just that and last night he added another aspect by the way he handled the point.
I feel as many on the board that WINNING last night may be a real step forward for this team and make it easier for others to step forward when Markus is having an off night or the other team is chasing him with 2 guys all over the court.
It was GT and beating GT without Markus is different than beating Nova or a tournament team but we may have expanded our horizons.
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I stand by what I said earlier. Everyone now respects Markus. Everyone now agrees we are a better team with Markus. But there are many who don't enjoy how we play with Markus.
Fortunately we all agree that the winning is more important than the play style it takes to get us to a win!
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One thing I noticed about last nights game was the good job Sacar did at bringing the ball up and initiating the offense. It seemed to me that most of our runs occurred with Sacar as PG. Sam did ok as the PG but didn't seem nearly as comfortable with the token pressure (and GT could/should have put on much stronger pressure given our situation) as Sacar. We've been looking for a way to let Markus play more off the ball, to some degree "rest while in the game" and rotate in more forwards. Sacar at the point might be the answer (it certainly isn't going to be Joe C). i realize Sacar didn't have a particularly good game shooting but if Markus is on the court he probably wouldn't take as many of those shots. I've was critical of Sacar's offensive game in the Non Con, wondering when this 4th year player was going to start playing like an upper classman. The last few games Sacar has done just that and last night he added another aspect by the way he handled the point.
I feel as many on the board that WINNING last night may be a real step forward for this team and make it easier for others to step forward when Markus is having an off night or the other team is chasing him with 2 guys all over the court.
It was GT and beating GT without Markus is different than beating Nova or a tournament team but we may have expanded our horizons.
I'm trying to think way back to Sacar's Frosh year. Did he play a little point? Limited minutes of course.
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I'm trying to think way back to Sacar's Frosh year. Did he play a little point? Limited minutes of course.
He played more PF than PG that year.
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He played more PF than PG that year.
I remember him in the #4 for sure. Did he play some #1 though?
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If Howard ever develops court vision......
He will be a Top 10 pick in the draft......
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Wojo has tacitly addressed this. Paraphrasing.. we have a thick playbook. But when Markus gets that look in his eye, we throw out the playbook.
In his post game address to the team, Wojo said 'just because someone says something, doesn't mean you have to believe it', which I inferred to be that we can't win without Markus.
Last night, they proved it. I wish Markus hadn't gone down and expect him back by Sunday. With that said, I think last night could be a huge blessing in disguise. I'm absolutely in favor of a more balanced attack. We all know (and saw last night) what our supporting cast is capable of.
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Last nights win was awesome. Winning without Markus was huge and I think it will only help the team going forward. But let's not pretend it was some portent of things to come.
5 players scored.
Sam assumed the role of good Markus.
Joey assumed Sam's normal role, but with more turnovers.
Theo and Matt combined to give usual Theo and Ed numbers.
Bailey was the revelation, taking on Joey's normal role. He is the only one that really showed more than we had seen before.
Sacar was Sacar.
MU won a conference road game without Markus. To be celebrated. But don t think MU is better without him. MU beat the likely basement dweller.
Agree with this. All road wins are good wins. With Markus and Ed out I thought we were in trouble. Really nice win by the team.
Matt played 10 minutes and had 3 rebounds and 0 points. When Ed comes back it is back to the bench for him. JC played 11 minutes and had 0 points. He looks like the BE is just too much for him. Cain, well he is just struggling.
Bailey was great off the bench. Hopefully this gives him a big confidence boost going forward. Hard not to feel good overall after this game. As long as Markus does not have a significant issue we are going to be real good.
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In his post game address to the team, Wojo said 'just because someone says something, doesn't mean you have to believe it', which I inferred to be that we can't win without Markus.
Last night, they proved it. I wish Markus hadn't gone down and expect him back by Sunday. With that said, I think last night could be a huge blessing in disguise. I'm absolutely in favor of a more balanced attack. We all know (and saw last night) what our supporting cast is capable of.
I believe that was in reference to “the strength of our Team is our Team” comment that he said was a bit of a motto the first day of practice. Just because you say it doesn’t mean you believe. I believe his point was last night they proved that to be true.
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If they shut Markus down and he still dominates the ball, MU is probably gonna lose.
Yup, that's the difference. We aren't a better team without Markus. But are we a better team with less Markus....maybe? All comes down to the volume shooting he does.
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Last nights win was awesome. Winning without Markus was huge and I think it will only help the team going forward. But let's not pretend it was some portent of things to come.
5 players scored.
Sam assumed the role of good Markus.
Joey assumed Sam's normal role, but with more turnovers.
Theo and Matt combined to give usual Theo and Ed numbers.
Bailey was the revelation, taking on Joey's normal role. He is the only one that really showed more than we had seen before.
Sacar was Sacar.
MU won a conference road game without Markus. To be celebrated. But don t think MU is better without him. MU beat the likely basement dweller.
My only disagreement is Gtown getting last.
Could be wrong, but don’t see it.
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My only disagreement is Gtown getting last.
Could be wrong, but don’t see it.
OK. Ninth.
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I remember him in the #4 for sure. Did he play some #1 though?
Not that I can recall. Cheatham, Carter, maybe Duane Wilson a bit.
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Yup, that's the difference. We aren't a better team without Markus. But are we a better team with less Markus....maybe? All comes down to the volume shooting he does.
No we are not a better team with less Markus. And I also do not believe that Markus "learned" anything from last night. He already knows how good his teammates are, and nothing from last night will (and should not) change how he plays the game. While he does not have the vision of a NBA PG yet I think it is not as bad as people suggest. A lot of it might have to do with his size and not being able to actually get the pass to the open player if they are cross court; especially on PNR where a guy with length switches onto him. To me, outside of his skill set, what makes him the most dynamic scorer in the country is his mentality to keep shooting and his aggressiveness.
I am going to state this before I move forward, I AM IN NO WAY SAYING MARKUS IS AS GOOD AS STEPH. Ok, with that done, Markus is the closest thing to Steph in the college game.
Curry's career metrics vs Markus so far this year, can you guess who is who?
Player A: PER 27.5, TS% .613, 3PAr .525, 3P% .440 Ast% 30.0, Tov% 15.0, Usg% 35.9
Player B: PER 23.9, TS% .624, 3PAr .471, 3P% .438 Ast% 32.0, Tov% 14.4, Usg% 27.8
The numbers are fairly similar with player A being a higher usage player who turns it over a little more (probably because of the higher usage) and shoots the 3 ball a little more often. The point is that when you have a player who can shoot like either one of those guys you take the good with the bad. On those rare off nights it is the responsibility of the coach to work out how to utilize those players effectively enough to get the win. All I know is I can think of at least 3 games we do not win without Markus being who he is, but cannot think of a game we end up winning because we had a little less Markus.
Great gutsy win last night and I hope that it gives Sam the confidence he needs to be more aggressive and assertive when Markus gets back.
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I remember Majerus talking about Earl Tatum as a frosh.
They were running some simple motion sets and Earl was to pass the ball to the left, then go to the right to screen. They ran this a few times and Earl looked confused. Coaches asked if he understood the play. Earl said "If I pass to the left, then go to the right side, how am I supposed to get the ball back?"
Earl, the offense is not designed to make sure you get the ball back.
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OK. Ninth.
Would bet they finish higher than that too, but they'll be playing first day in the BET
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Lotsa Scoopers clamor for Wojo to sign 5-stars. What do they think most 5-stars like Markus (who might have been a 5-star if he hadn't reclassified and certainly plays like a 5-star now) and Henry do? They dominate the basketball. They didn't become 5-stars by setting screens and handing the ball to teammates. That's what Heldt and Derrick Wilson are for. You want a 5-star, you have to expect him to play like a 5-star.
Markus is who he is. A ball-dominant, shoot-first PG. When he is in a zone, he is going to keep firing -- and thank goodness.
Very true, which is why some of us also would be ok with 3's and 4's for that very reason. It's hard not to want the shiny object that is so good, but as I said during the HE days, it ends up being guys standing around watching. It's a tough situation for a coach to figure out. The conventional wisdom is you have to take those guys, but there are some coaches that just don't want to play in that space and they do great. Mark Few for many years didn't bother and said it wouldn't fit for them. If you can keep the classes balanced, in the long run I believe that is better, but in the short run you may give up the moonshot hope that someone carries you to the promised land.
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No we are not a better team with less Markus.
Could be, that's why I formed it in a question. I'm in the camp that our optimal efficiency hasn't been reached yet and our most dangerous is a little less MH (who is great), and a bit more of the others.
Better said, I would rather have teams needing to key on three guys instead of one.
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OK. Ninth.
Yup, I still disagree
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We are a better team when all are involved, which has been my comments for the last few months. We would be lights out if you could cut Howard’s shots by 20% and distribute them to the others.
Maybe and maybe not. I get as frustrated as the next guy when he starts chucking and missing. But we have to live with that when he chucks up 25 footers with a hand in his face and converts, with sometimes a 4 point play. The guy is incredible but still must learn that he cannot do it all.