MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Mr. Sand-Knit on January 16, 2019, 05:57:14 AM
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Last nights game really reminded me of Buzz’s win at West Virginia. Both road games with significant players unable to go. Games that looked like we probably lose until we actually won. In both cases super jobs by the coaches in putting the right guys in the right places to give them a chance to win huge road games. Wojo even got the post game interview, albeit no dancing and a less hostile crowd.
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Not quite WVU in my book, but pretty damn close.
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But did he dance at half court?
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/RHddLK1r9PvvG/giphy.gif?cid=3640f6095c3f403d6377614c4dcf75ba)
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Not sure Buzz did any dancing last night. Ouch
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Does KenPom's system ignore best and worst performance? Because even after getting smoked by 22 at Virginia, the Hokies dropped one whole position in the rankings (from #7 to #8). Meanwhile, they have exactly one Top 25 win and just two Top 50 wins -- both on neutral sites.
I don't get it. Is Virginia Tech gaming the system? Seems like running up big victory margins against meaningless opponents -- winning by 38 vs. #265 St. Francis, by 54 vs. #255 Central Connecticut, by 37 vs. #335 South Carolina St. or by 45 vs. #353 Maryland Eastern Shore -- is worth more than actually beating good teams.
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Last night was significantly better than West Virginia.
Sure, both games are similar because each team overcame adversity on the road, but let's remember that one team's adversity was entirely self-inflicted. Missing key guys due to injury is far different than players being suspended a half due to a violation of team rules.
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Last night was significantly better than West Virginia.
Sure, both games are similar because each team overcame adversity on the road, but let's remember that one team's adversity was entirely self-inflicted. Missing key guys due to injury is far different than players being suspended a half due to a violation of team rules.
No. WVU was a much tougher environment.
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Last night was significantly better than West Virginia.
Sure, both games are similar because each team overcame adversity on the road, but let's remember that one team's adversity was entirely self-inflicted. Missing key guys due to injury is far different than players being suspended a half due to a violation of team rules.
Yeah, looking back it at the WV game was pretty phoney. Jae played like a man that game though. I’d say the games are a good comparison but one felt a lot less slimey.
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WVU was a big time win. To look back on it now and diminish it, is sour grapes. They beat a tough WVU on the road and did it with style. That a big time regular season win.
Last night was gutsy win and should be applauded. But, truth be told, they beat a pretty low level team. Georgetown will be at or very close to BE basement when season concludes. Regardless, last night was a signature win for this team.
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Plus as much as I loved Cadougan, he ain’t Markus Howard. Missing Howard was a much more significant impact.
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Does KenPom's system ignore best and worst performance? Because even after getting smoked by 22 at Virginia, the Hokies dropped one whole position in the rankings (from #7 to #8). Meanwhile, they have exactly one Top 25 win and just two Top 50 wins -- both on neutral sites.
I don't get it. Is Virginia Tech gaming the system? Seems like running up big victory margins against meaningless opponents -- winning by 38 vs. #265 St. Francis, by 54 vs. #255 Central Connecticut, by 37 vs. #335 South Carolina St. or by 45 vs. #353 Maryland Eastern Shore -- is worth more than actually beating good teams.
I'm guessing UVa was a 10 point favorite per Pomeroy. So if Va Tech loses by 10, it's exactly as expected and their ranking stays the same. The extra 12 lead to the drop, but because it's adjusted for quality of opponent, losing by 12 to the top team in the country isn't going to move you down much.
Running up the score against weak opponents does really help teams in that metric. Paint Touches just did a good article on it that's worth checking out.
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Does KenPom's system ignore best and worst performance? Because even after getting smoked by 22 at Virginia, the Hokies dropped one whole position in the rankings (from #7 to #8). Meanwhile, they have exactly one Top 25 win and just two Top 50 wins -- both on neutral sites.
I don't get it. Is Virginia Tech gaming the system? Seems like running up big victory margins against meaningless opponents -- winning by 38 vs. #265 St. Francis, by 54 vs. #255 Central Connecticut, by 37 vs. #335 South Carolina St. or by 45 vs. #353 Maryland Eastern Shore -- is worth more than actually beating good teams.
Brew is right, plus the paint touches article is good, but there is another reason.
We as fans think of KenPom rankings as being equidistant from each other. E.g. the distance between #1 and #2 is the same as the distance between #173 and #174. When in reality there are varying gaps. As with most stats, KenPom rankings form a nice and pretty been curve. The closer you are to the fringes, the more space there is between the rankings so the harder it is to move up or down.
To illustrate my point, the difference between Virginia at #1 and Duke at #2 is 2.78. That's the same as the difference between #162 UTSA and #193 Hartford
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WVU was a big time win. To look back on it now and diminish it, is sour grapes. They beat a tough WVU on the road and did it with style. That a big time regular season win.
Last night was gutsy win and should be applauded. But, truth be told, they beat a pretty low level team. Georgetown will be at or very close to BE basement when season concludes. Regardless, last night was a signature win for this team.
I agree with alot of what u say goose, in many of ur posts.
I agree on the wvu win, partially disagree on last nights win. Agree GT is a doormat, but i think any BE road win is special, especially this year.
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Sand Knit
I think last nights W was a big one. IMO, biggest in Wojo era. I was more defending the Buzz-WVU victory than anything else. Does not matter they beat last night...it was a gut check victory.
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Brew is right, plus the paint touches article is good, but there is another reason.
We as fans think of KenPom rankings as being equidistant from each other. E.g. the distance between #1 and #2 is the same as the distance between #173 and #174. When in reality there are varying gaps. As with most stats, KenPom rankings form a nice and pretty been curve. The closer you are to the fringes, the more space there is between the rankings so the harder it is to move up or down.
To illustrate my point, the difference between Virginia at #1 and Duke at #2 is 2.78. That's the same as the difference between #162 UTSA and #193 Hartford
I was thinking about that too and looking at Kansas' Adjusted EM this morning. Texas Tech didn't play yesterday but moved ahead of Virginia Tech. Here are the current ratings of teams around Va Tech:
6) Michigan 27.03
7) Texas Tech 24.43
8) Virginia Tech 23.49
9) Kansas 23.28
10) North Carolina 22.98
11) Nebraska 22.45
12) Kentucky 21.86
Before the UVa loss, Va Tech was at 24.68, so they dropped 1.19 points. If they suffered the identical loss again, it would drop them to 11th behind Nebraska. So what was a 1 rank drop becomes a 3 rank drop, and as you note, when teams are grouped more closely together that same point drop could represent a drop of 15-20 spots in the rankings.
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WVU was a big time win. To look back on it now and diminish it, is sour grapes. They beat a tough WVU on the road and did it with style. That a big time regular season win.
Last night was gutsy win and should be applauded. But, truth be told, they beat a pretty low level team. Georgetown will be at or very close to BE basement when season concludes. Regardless, last night was a signature win for this team.
Yes, WVU was the better team and the environment in Morgantown was tougher. No debate here.
But, the comparison between the games had to do with both teams being shorthanded and overcoming that adversity. And, again, it must be mentioned that one team was put in that position to due circumstances beyond their control and the other was entirely self-inflicted. To me, that's an important distinction. And, why I feel yesterday's win was more significant.
So, if that's mean I'm diminishing the WVU win, absolutely. That team put themselves in that hole. Kudos to them on getting the win, but the adversity they faced should have never occurred in the first place.
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Yeah the WV win was a great basketball win, but the guy who can't stop talking about what a great leader of men who often don't have good male leaders in their life showing his guys that discipline is really important...so long as it doesn't prevent you from winning a basketball game...was a joke. If I remember correctly there were multiple players suspended for one half of a single game, and they were staggered between the first half and the second half so we were never facing a super short roster to use, just one or two guys in each half. It was worse than the Coach K 1 game "indefinite suspension" special.
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Yeah the WV win was a great basketball win, but the guy who can't stop talking about what a great leader of men who often don't have good male leaders in their life showing his guys that discipline is really important...so long as it doesn't prevent you from winning a basketball game...was a joke. If I remember correctly there were multiple players suspended for one half of a single game, and they were staggered between the first half and the second half so we were never facing a super short roster to use, just one or two guys in each half. It was worse than the Coach K 1 game "indefinite suspension" special.
"Regardless of locale, regardless of time of year, regardless of winning streak or losing streak or magnitude of the game, there has to be a standard," Williams said. "There has to be accountability, and our guys messed up. They understood, and that was the end of it. Everything's back to normal and we'll move on."
First half:
DJO
Blue
Cadougan
Second half:
Mayo
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WVU was a big time win. To look back on it now and diminish it, is sour grapes. They beat a tough WVU on the road and did it with style. That a big time regular season win.
Last night was gutsy win and should be applauded. But, truth be told, they beat a pretty low level team. Georgetown will be at or very close to BE basement when season concludes. Regardless, last night was a signature win for this team.
goose man-i'm sure you would agree with this one-any win over the "huggy bear" is worth the chit ya'd take for droppin trow and loozin a growler on the wvu logo in my book...do a little dance, make a little love...bring it onnnn home buzz!! for all of those the hand wringing and wrinkled up botox'd foreheads-go curl up with a coloring book and leave the optics to the whooo let the dogs out gang, enn'a so?
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Rocket
Spot on, my friend.
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Woulda bin grater if Wojo had danced at mid-court singin' "Somewhere Over the Rainbow," hey?
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Woulda bin grater if Wojo had danced at mid-court singin' "Somewhere Over the Rainbow," hey?
awww, come on man, i love that jingle! can't ya just imagine door a thee kickin those rubies up in the air behind her ears with that one playin in the background...follow the yella brick road !!!
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Dentists are weird ass people.
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Dentists are weird ass people.
Early front-runner for comment of the year.
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"Regardless of locale, regardless of time of year, regardless of winning streak or losing streak or magnitude of the game, there has to be a standard," Williams said. "There has to be accountability, and our guys messed up. They understood, and that was the end of it. Everything's back to normal and we'll move on."
First half:
DJO
Blue
Cadougan
Second half:
Mayo
he then whispered unless there's a sexual assaults, punch a guy at qdoba, or get into a club fight