MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Not A Serious Person on January 12, 2019, 05:44:55 PM
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Trevor Lawrence, Clemson's QB, was the highest rated HS recruit EVER by Rivals. They said the only comparison is Peyton Manning. He is the first true Freshman since Jameel Holloway in 1985 to start and win the National Championship. He beat an Alabama team by 28 that was thought to be one of the greatest teams in CFB history.
He is not eligible for the NFL draft for two years but if he was eligible this year, he would be the #1 pick.
So NFL scouts are drooling over this 19-year old kid thinking he is the most important pick in decades.
So here is the conspiracy theory.
Teams like Dallas and New England would love this kid, but they are not going to get the #1 pick anytime soon. So, they speculated that a Jerry Jones would give Vince McMahon $20 to $30 million to offer this kid to play in his rebooted XFL. Then after two years he is a free agent and Dallas (or New England, or whoever has money), can offer him the richest contract in NFL contract in history.
They also suggested this could be a way around the three year rule and render the draft less important. Good Freshman and Sophomores leave early to get paid for a year or two in the XFL then jump to the NFL as a free agent.
You buying or selling this tin foil hat theory?
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Trevor Lawrence, Clemson's QB, was the highest rated HS recruit EVER by Rivals. They said the only comparison is Peyton Manning. He is the first true Freshman since Jameel Holloway in 1985 to start and win the National Championship. He beat an Alabama team by 28 that was thought to be one of the greatest teams in CFB history.
He is not eligible for the NFL draft for two years but if he was eligible this year, he would be the #1 pick.
So NFL scouts are drooling over this 19-year old kid thinking he is the most important pick in decades.
So here is the conspiracy theory.
Teams like Dallas and New England would love this kid, but they are not going to get the #1 pick anytime soon. So, they speculated that a Jerry Jones would give Vince McMahon $20 to $30 million to offer this kid to play in his rebooted XFL. Then after two years he is a free agent and Dallas (or New England, or whoever has money), can offer him the richest contract in NFL contract in history.
They also suggested this could be a way around the three year rule and render the draft less important. Good Freshman and Sophomores leave early to get paid for a year or two in the XFL then jump to the NFL as a free agent.
You buying or selling this tin foil hat theory?
It is an interesting idea, but because the XFL is not part of the NFL in any way, doing what you suggested if found out would get PATs or BoYs in next level world of trouble. So no, I don’t believe it would be a NFL conspiracy or involve any owner.
Now, could Lawrence do it on his own with help from advisors and try to become a free agent as you suggest? Sure. Unless XFL has similar rules of eligibility which I am not aware of.
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What I buy is if TL has another fantastic season next year, he just leaves school, trains all year, sign an agent, get endorsements a year early, hedge a possible injury, and one less year of tape for scouts to pick apart.
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What I buy is if TL has another fantastic season next year, he just leaves school, trains all year, sign an agent, get endorsements a year early, hedge a possible injury, and one less year of tape for scouts to pick apart.
Why not now? He is already considered a franchise savior after this past season. Hard to get his stock much higher.
Why not leave now and sue to get into this year's draft?
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Why not now? He is already considered a franchise savior after this past season. Hard to get his stock much higher.
Why not leave now and sue to get into this year's draft?
Others have sued and lost, why do you think his lawsuit is going to be successful?
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Selling.
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I’m buying that Heise wants his click count up.
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I’m buying that Heise wants his click count up.
This. Smuggles be Smuggles.
As for a lawsuit ...
The NFL, a private enterprise, has repeatedly won in court the right to determine who is eligible for its draft. Any lawsuit would fail. It is a collectively bargained issue.
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Why not now? He is already considered a franchise savior after this past season. Hard to get his stock much higher.
Why not leave now and sue to get into this year's draft?
Great idea!
Best regards,
Maurice Clarett
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Clemson Freshman’s Wait To Get Into NFL Draft May Cost Him Millions
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-09/clemson-freshman-s-nfl-waiting-game-may-cost-him-millions
Oliver Luck: XFL will consider taking players before eligible for the NFL Draft
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/01/08/oliver-luck-xfl-will-consider-taking-players-before-eligible-for-the-nfl-draft/
Clemson quarterback Trevor Lawrence can’t play in the NFL until at least 2021.
But he’d potentially have an option to become a pro a year earlier if he wanted.
XFL commissioner Oliver Luck has openly suggested the upstart league, which will begin play in 2020, could become a safe haven for players who don’t want to spend three years in college for whatever reason.
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Great idea!
Best regards,
Maurice Clarett
Maurice, I guess you forgot that you actually won your case and then it was overturned on appeal. (FYI - now Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor overturned the ruling when she was on the appellate court.)
You dropped it because tOSU threw you out of school on some trumped up academic violation charges (no one takes classes at tOSU). You also did not help your situation by getting arrested for armed robbery.
Lawrence could sue and now not suffer because of it. Clemson will probably not run him out of school. And if they did, Oliver Luck has a big checkbook waiting for him.
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Maurice, I guess you forgot that you actually won your case and then it was overturned on appeal. (FYI - now Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor overturned the ruling when she was on the appellate court.)
You dropped it because tOSU threw you out of school on some trumped up academic violation charges (no one takes classes at tOSU). You also did not help your situation by getting arrested for armed robbery.
Lawrence could sue and now not suffer because of it. Clemson will probably not run him out of school. And if they did, Oliver Luck has a big checkbook waiting for him.
Clarett was arrested for armed robbery months after he'd been drafted, cut and cleared waivers, so it didn't really affect his NFL chances. Being overweight, lazy and not particularly good at football or human interaction did, however.
The XFL would be a terrible decision for Lawrence.
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Maybe I am missing something, but if this type of workaround was attempted, what would stop the NFL from changing their rules to say that anyone who wants to join an NFL team for the first time has to enter the draft?
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Maybe I am missing something, but if this type of workaround was attempted, what would stop the NFL from changing their rules to say that anyone who wants to join an NFL team for the first time has to enter the draft?
From the Oliver Luck story above about the XFL:
“Theoretically we could take a player right out of high school. I doubt we’ll do that,” Luck said, noting the difference in physical development between an 18-year-old and the 24-to-25-year-old fringe NFLers they plan to build their base from.
So, yes the NFL can adopt a "one and done" strategy but that costs them a lot of money taking all these young projects onto their payrolls.
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Maybe I am missing something, but if this type of workaround was attempted, what would stop the NFL from changing their rules to say that anyone who wants to join an NFL team for the first time has to enter the draft?
This.
Do I believe that the Pats and Cowboys would openly break rules to gain an advantage? Absolutely, two of the most historically dirty teams in the NFL.
Would the NFL simply make a rule like you propose to solve any possible problems. Yes. Would the Kraft and Jones fight the new rule, also an absolute yes.
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Maybe I am missing something, but if this type of workaround was attempted, what would stop the NFL from changing their rules to say that anyone who wants to join an NFL team for the first time has to enter the draft?
To your highlighted question ... that means no more free agent market. So you are either drafted or can never play in the NFL, ever?
(For instance, no signing foreign soccer players as kickers or punters without them going through the draft?)
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To your highlighted question ... that means no more free agent market. So you are either drafted or can never play in the NFL, ever?
(For instance, no signing European soccer players as kickers or punters without them going through the draft?)
Very easy fix. Must first register (and be eligible) for the draft, or supplemental draft. If undrafted, can sign with any team as a free-agent.
Any European soccer players or Australian rugby players that think they may someday want to play in the NFL can register. If they don't register, tough luck.
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This.
Do I believe that the Pats and Cowboys would openly break rules to gain an advantage? Absolutely, two of the most historically dirty teams in the NFL.
Would the NFL simply make a rule like you propose to solve any possible problems. Yes. Would the Kraft and Jones fight the new rule, also an absolute yes.
This circles back to my original question. If you are Jerry Jones and/or Robert Kraft and you see Trevor Lawrence as the second coming. What do you do to get him?
The answer is he has to become a free agent so he does not get drafted by a Buffalo or Jacksonville.
The XFL is one way to get him to bypass the draft and get him to free agency in two years (when he is 21).
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Maurice, I guess you forgot that you actually won your case and then it was overturned on appeal. (FYI - now Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor overturned the ruling when she was on the appellate court.)
Key difference is that the age limitation to be draft eligible was simply an NFL rule back then. It has now been included in the collective bargaining agreement with the union. Lawrence would never win that case unless the courts want to set precedent that all age limitations written into such agreements are now invalid.
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Very easy fix. Must first register (and be eligible) for the draft, or supplemental draft. If undrafted, can sign with any team as a free-agent.
Any European soccer players or Australian rugby players that think they may someday want to play in the NFL can register. If they don't register, tough luck.
The NFL cannot unilaterally make this rule. It has to be part of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
You think the players association is going to want to agree to this form of restricting players into the league? The answer is they will if the NFL agrees to raise the minimum salary and fatten the pension benefits. So, does the NFL feel this rule change is so important that they will pay for it? I'll guess no.
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This circles back to my original question. If you are Jerry Jones and/or Robert Kraft and you see Trevor Lawrence as the second coming. What do you do to get him?
The answer is he has to become a free agent so he does not get drafted by a Buffalo or Jacksonville.
The XFL is one way to get him to bypass the draft and get him to free agency in two years (when he is 21).
Why would he become a free agent if he goes to the XFL instead of playing in college? How does playing for the XFL invalidate the NFL draft rules codified in the collective bargaining agreement with the union?
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The NFL cannot unilaterally make this rule. It has to be part of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
You think the players association is going to want to agree to this form of restricting players into the league? The answer is they will if the NFL agrees to raise the minimum salary and fatten the pension benefits. So, does the NFL feel this rule change is so important that they will pay for it? I'll guess no.
Draft eligibility is now part of the collective bargaining agreement. See page 17.
https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/collective-bargaining-agreement-2011-2020.pdf
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Wait, was I just not paying attention to the username, or did heise already change his username since being called out?
Yeah, I’m buying that heise simply needs more attention and wants his clicks, and that is 100% what this thread is for. Heise knows, as we all do, that this will not happen, but he’ll keep asking questions just to say, “See, this is how a thread runs! What a great discussion we have going!”
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Why would he become a free agent if he goes to the XFL instead of playing in college? How does playing for the XFL invalidate the NFL draft rules codified in the collective bargaining agreement with the union?
If you are drafted, that team gets your rights for one year. If you do not sign with them, you are a free agent (most famously employed by Elway, who threatened to play baseball for a year, over the Baltimore Colts, until he was a free agent. This was resolved by him get traded to Denver. Eli Manning threatened the same by saying he would sit out if the San Diego Chargers drafted him. It never came to that, but he did threaten it.)
So a team can draft him in two years (when eligible) and if he does not want them, he can wait them out by getting paid in the XFL. One year later, he is a free agent.
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Draft eligibility is now part of the collective bargaining agreement. See page 17.
https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/collective-bargaining-agreement-2011-2020.pdf
Yup.
Looks like Heisy's conspiracy theory is an impossibility because even if Lawrence would go to the XFL or anywhere else, his only entry to the NFL is through the draft.
Article 6, Section 2 (d) of the CBA:
No player shall be eligible to be employed by an NFL Club until he has been eligible for selection in an NFL Draft.
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Yup.
Looks like Heisy's conspiracy theory is an impossibility because even if Lawrence would go to the XFL or anywhere else, his only entry to the NFL is through the draft.
Article 6, Section 2 (d) of the CBA:
No player shall be eligible to be employed by an NFL Club until he has been eligible for selection in an NFL Draft.
Two issues here ...
How fast does Lawrence want to make money? How worried is he about injury affecting his income potential before getting paid? If the answer is "fast" and "worried" then he has the XFL option when they start in a year.
Second ... is he like Elway and Manning and particular about the team he plays for? If the "wrong" team" drafts him, he can wait them out a year in the XFL until he becomes a free agent.
Related to this, what would Kraft and Jones stop at to get him? Answer ... nothing. Fines and loss of draft picks are just the cost of doing business.
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Two issues here ...
How fast does Lawrence want to make money? How worried is he about injury affecting his income potential before getting paid? If the answer is "fast" and "worried" then he has the XFL option when they start in a year.
What does that have to Bob and/or Jerry crafting a wily conspiracy to get Lawrence in New England or Dallas?
Second ... is he like Elway and Manning and particular about the team he plays for? If the "wrong" team" drafts him, he can wait them out a year in the XFL until he becomes a free agent.
That's not how it works. If Lawrence gets drafted and refuses to sign with the team that drafts him, he doesn't become a free agent. He goes back into the draft.
Related to this, what would Kraft and Jones stop at to get him? Answer ... nothing. Fines and loss of draft picks are just the cost of doing business.
What are you suggesting? Do you somehow believe Jerry is going to just sign Lawrence and the league's 31 other owners will just stand by and way "Welp, you got us this time, you rascal." Lawrence would be ineligible to play.
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Wait, was I just not paying attention to the username, or did heise already change his username since being called out?
Yeah, I’m buying that heise simply needs more attention and wants his clicks, and that is 100% what this thread is for. Heise knows, as we all do, that this will not happen, but he’ll keep asking questions just to say, “See, this is how a thread runs! What a great discussion we have going!”
I didn't realize that he already changed his name (again) and this was the reincarnation. I wouldn't have even engaged in discussion as it is pointless and futile. We already have the goalposts shifting to an unrecognizable degree.
Uggh.
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That's not how it works. If Lawrence gets drafted and refuses to sign with the team that drafts him, he doesn't become a free agent. He goes back into the draft.
Ok, you are correct, and he reenters the draft.
But, it is a distinction without a difference because the results are the same either way.
If he has the ability to make money in the XFL he can wait it out until the team that wants him has his rights. Draft picks are too valuable to waste on a guy that does not want to play for your team. (the CBA says you cannot make money in Canada waiting it out but the XFL did not exist when the agreement was struck)
So a team can trade his rights to the team he wants, or wait until the team he wants takes him (see Kelly in the USFL in the early 1980s)
The point is Lawrence is at another level. He is believed to be the biggest franchise maker in decades. He can demand things no one else can. Related to this ...
On Dan Partick's show they asked if Green Bay could have Lawrence this spring, but had to cut Rogers, would they do it? He thought yes. Same with Brady in New England (because one of 40 and the other is 19). Same with New Orleans (age again).
They listed only five QBs in the league right now you would not cut over Lawrence ... Mahomes, Luck, Darnold (given his potential), Goff and Mayfield.
Again, the reason we are talking about Lawrence this way is he is unlike any college players in decades, or ever. Sure he might the next Todd Marinovich or Tony Mandarich. But everything I read is this is the NFL thinks this kid is the next Manning/Brady.
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So, why are we saying Jerry or Bob can't get him through the draft? Trade.
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So, why are we saying Jerry or Bob can't get him through the draft? Trade.
Because that is too simple and obvious.
Clearly we need to have a lengthy discussion, involving impossible scenarios, that spiral into a never ending moving goalpost, before the thread gets locked.
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Two issues here ...
How fast does Lawrence want to make money? How worried is he about injury affecting his income potential before getting paid? If the answer is "fast" and "worried" then he has the XFL option when they start in a year.
Second ... is he like Elway and Manning and particular about the team he plays for? If the "wrong" team" drafts him, he can wait them out a year in the XFL until he becomes a free agent.
Related to this, what would Kraft and Jones stop at to get him? Answer ... nothing. Fines and loss of draft picks are just the cost of doing business.
They could lose their franchises. Literally. It is outlined clearly in the bylaws as an owner. They won’t do it.
I work with Cowboys nearly daily. Kraft is on our calls for TV broadcast revenue, his son for digital revenue side. Not going to happen. No way, no how would they do it. Absurd to even suggest it.
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Tom Brady's agent offers Trevor Lawrence contract for new league
https://247sports.com/Article/Tom-Brady-agent-Trevor-Lawrence-Don-Yee-offer-Clemson-Tigers-quarterback-professional-football-league-128541978/
After quarterback Trevor Lawrence, as a true freshman, helped the Clemson Tigers defeat the Alabama Crimson Tide in the 2019 College Football Playoff National Championship, there was a mountain of opinions on the potential of Lawrence's NFL future.
Some NFL executives reportedly even went as far as to say Lawrence would be the No. 1 overall pick in the 2019 NFL Draft if he was able to enter this year. Of course, current NFL rules dictate that a player must be at least three years removed from high school to enter the draft.
So Lawrence is out of options if he wanted to leave Clemson before his next two college seasons expire, right? Not so fast, says Don Yee, who is the longtime agent of New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady; Brady is preparing to play against the Los Angeles Rams in Super Bowl LIII Sunday in Atlanta.
Yee is one of the founders of the Pacific Pro Football League, and he made a contract offer to Lawrence during a radio appearance on 104.5 The Zone in Nashville. Unlike other new professional leagues, such as the the Alliance of American Football (AAF) and the rebooted XFL, the Pacific Pro Football League is marketing itself as an opportunity for players who are not yet eligible to enter the NFL draft.
"Our player population, for example, will be players such as Trevor Lawrence at Clemson," Yee said. "We would like to make him an employment offer, professionalize right away. Be our Joe Namath. Adidas is one of our founding sponsors, and I think they might want to make him an endorsement proposal. And he would be professional, and he would learn an NFL style of game with us before he declares for the draft."
The league is scheduled to begin play in July 2019, and it will include four teams that each have 50 players. The rosters will be entirely comprised of players that would be ineligible for the NFL, and Yee says the league is going after players, such as Lawrence, that have NFL potential — athletes that are often 247Sports Composite four or five-star recruits.
"Players will receive a salary, benefits, and even paid tuition and books for one year at community college," the Pacific Pro Football League website says. "Players also will be able to market themselves for compensation, and begin creating a financial retirement plan if they so choose. Pacific Pro’s top priority will be the proper development of the player, on and off the field, using professional protocols.
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Didn't see this thread the first time, but...I do have a question for anyone that knows...
Why doesn't Nike / Adidas / UA /etc give him a couple million $, pay for training, and hype him for 2 years to avoid the whole college thing? Why risk injury playing anywhere but the NFL for the next 2 years, and seems like a good investment for a guaranteed contract for the athletic apparel company.
I don't follow this much, so maybe it's not allowed, or companies don't actually want to put up that dough. It all seems silly to me that the kid can't go pro and make money now. But that's a debate that has been argued here a bunch...
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Didn't see this thread the first time, but...I do have a question for anyone that knows...
Why doesn't Nike / Adidas / UA /etc give him a couple million $, pay for training, and hype him for 2 years to avoid the whole college thing? Why risk injury playing anywhere but the NFL for the next 2 years, and seems like a good investment for a guaranteed contract for the athletic apparel company.
I don't follow this much, so maybe it's not allowed, or companies don't actually want to put up that dough. It all seems silly to me that the kid can't go pro and make money now. But that's a debate that has been argued here a bunch...
I’ll attempt an answer.
Brady is the GOAT and playing in his 9th Super Bowl tomorrow. So who is the next GOAT that will play in many superbowls?
Most think it is Mahomes and Lawrence.
So until Lawrence, no college player has had this level of hype (Rivals had him as the highest rated HS recruit EVER). So, they don’t know what to do until Lawrence becuase they never had to think about it.
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Didn't see this thread the first time, but...I do have a question for anyone that knows...
Why doesn't Nike / Adidas / UA /etc give him a couple million $, pay for training, and hype him for 2 years to avoid the whole college thing? Why risk injury playing anywhere but the NFL for the next 2 years, and seems like a good investment for a guaranteed contract for the athletic apparel company.
I don't follow this much, so maybe it's not allowed, or companies don't actually want to put up that dough. It all seems silly to me that the kid can't go pro and make money now. But that's a debate that has been argued here a bunch...
NFL scouts aren't going to care if a player skips a bowl game. They will care if he skips two whole seasons.
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Look, if a star quarterback wants to play for a specific team, he will! Period.
Not many of you remember John Elway was drafted out of Stanford by the Indianapolis Colts. Mr. Elway never played a single down for the Colts and made it clear he would never sign with them. His rights were traded to the Denver Broncos.
If an all-world quarterback said, "I want to play for the Dallas Cowboys" and played the same game Mr. Elway did, I'm sure the NFL would find a way. Unless Jerry Jones made it clear he did not want him (yeah, right!).
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Look, if a star quarterback wants to play for a specific team, he will! Period.
Not many of you remember John Elway was drafted out of Stanford by the Indianapolis Colts. Mr. Elway never played a single down for the Colts and made it clear he would never sign with them. His rights were traded to the Denver Broncos.
If an all-world quarterback said, "I want to play for the Dallas Cowboys" and played the same game Mr. Elway did, I'm sure the NFL would find a way. Unless Jerry Jones made it clear he did not want him (yeah, right!).
Eli Manning did the same
San Diego was told not to pick him so they took Philip Rivers. Worked out for the Chargers but Manning did not go to San Diego
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Maurice, I guess you forgot that you actually won your case and then it was overturned on appeal. (FYI - now Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor overturned the ruling when she was on the appellate court.)
You dropped it because tOSU threw you out of school on some trumped up academic violation charges (no one takes classes at tOSU). You also did not help your situation by getting arrested for armed robbery.
Lawrence could sue and now not suffer because of it. Clemson will probably not run him out of school. And if they did, Oliver Luck has a big checkbook waiting for him.
...and, he liked to get his "goose" on.
no pun intended goose. reference to his penchant for the vodka