MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Tha Hound on January 09, 2019, 08:55:09 PM
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In OT, Markus dribbled the ball up the court and into the corner. He had what looked like his arm hit and he lost control. A blue jay player grabbed the ball off the bounce and clearly dribbled it out bounds. The refs gave the ball back to Creighton? Did I miss something? They even reviewed the play? How could anyone with two eyes give the ball to Creighton?
I know we won, but still. That came at a crucial, crucial point of OT. To miss a call like that is disgraceful.
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agreed. What are we missing?
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In OT, Markus dribbled the ball up the court and into the corner. He had what looked like his arm hit and he lost control. A blue jay player grabbed the ball off the bounce and clearly dribbled it out bounds. The refs gave the ball back to Creighton? Did I miss something? They even reviewed the play? How could anyone with two eyes give the ball to Creighton?
I know we won, but still. That came at a crucial, crucial point of OT. To miss a call like that is disgraceful.
It was horrendous and I'd love to hear an explanation.
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The worst part is it was reviewed. That was unreal
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They reviewed it and still got it wrong. Although..... the camera angle along the baseline made it look like it may not have touched the line. From the overhead shot, it looked like it did. I wonder if they decided it didn't hit the line and Creighton got it due to the inadvertent whistle. No idea, though. Just spit balling.
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Agree with all of the above. Couldn’t have been more obvious. However - I think the no-call on Joey’s travel later on almost made up for it.
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And it lead to a made three point shot by CU. The announcers even said, yup, thats gonna be MU ball. Once the refs said CU ball, the announcers didn't even question it. It was the strangest call of the year.
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The worst part is it was reviewed. That was unreal
Exactly. Like did they come out of that review and huddle and say that there actually was conclusive evidence that it is Creighton ball? I get that you can't call the foul they missed but just how do you miss that
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I’ll take our win in sams shot vs our loss on Markus OOB.
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Agree with all of the above. Couldn’t have been more obvious. However - I think the no-call on Joey’s travel later on almost made up for it.
I disagree. The foul called was for a push which if called would be the reason for the travel. Without a foul called it’s a travel
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Agree with all of the above. Couldn’t have been more obvious. However - I think the no-call on Joey’s travel later on almost made up for it.
The refs made a HUGE deal out of the missed call on Joey's travel.
But said NOTHING about markus' arm getting hacked during this OOB replay.
Weird.
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They reviewed it and still got it wrong. Although..... the camera angle along the baseline made it look like it may not have touched the line. From the overhead shot, it looked like it did. I wonder if they decided it didn't hit the line and Creighton got it due to the inadvertent whistle. No idea, though. Just spit balling.
Would that be a jump ball though? Which MU would have gotten.
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Agree with all of the above. Couldn’t have been more obvious. However - I think the no-call on Joey’s travel later on almost made up for it.
DIsagree. He was pushed before he even caught the ball, or at least at the exact moment. The momentum from the push caused him to take the extra steps. THought they got that one right.
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Agree with all of the above. Couldn’t have been more obvious. However - I think the no-call on Joey’s travel later on almost made up for it.
yep. I think the refs thought Joey must have been pushed. Clearly a walk.
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Would that be a jump ball though? Which MU would have gotten.
I am not claiming to know. Tossing out one possibility. It looked to me like they screwed up, too.
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The refs made a HUGE deal out of the missed call on Joey's travel.
But said NOTHING about markus' arm getting hacked during this OOB replay.
Weird.
Joey was fouled immediately. The guy had both hands on him as he caught the ball and call was made right away. The Howard call on the other hand...brutal.
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I didnt think the ball ever went out of bounds...not sure how that ended up a CU ball either.
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yep. I think the refs thought Joey must have been pushed. Clearly a walk.
The defender had two hands on Joey.
OOB vs Markus was awful.
But given the way the game went into OT, I am not gonna complain about our luck tonight!
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I disagree. The foul called was for a push which if called would be the reason for the travel. Without a foul called it’s a travel
Yes. This.
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it was clearly MU ball. Joey was pushed which caused the travel.
Also did not know it was ok for a player to tell a ref he is F'n terrible and not get T'd up.
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@JayBilas 34m
Incredible end to regulation in Marquette-Creighton. First, throwing long with .8 up 3 points is the only way you can lose. Inbound under the basket, game is over. Second, closest replay review for the officials you can have. Wow.
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It was a quick replay. My suspicion was the ref only watched Markus hand throwing the ball towards out of bounds but didn’t continue the play to see Creighton tip it back?
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I honestly think they weren't looking past when the ball was near Markus' hand. I don't think they realized it didn't go out of bounds at that point.
I'm laying out a scenario where the refs just had a brain fart rather than being completely incompetent. Well, I guess they were either way you look at that review
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They reviewed it and still got it wrong. Although..... the camera angle along the baseline made it look like it may not have touched the line. From the overhead shot, it looked like it did. I wonder if they decided it didn't hit the line and Creighton got it due to the inadvertent whistle. No idea, though. Just spit balling.
Inadvertent whistle is the only comprehensible answer. But can an IW be reviewed?
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it was clearly MU ball. Joey was pushed which caused the travel.
Also did not know it was ok for a player to tell a ref he is F'n terrible and not get T'd up.
Great point here. Ballock was mouthing off to the refs on multiple occasions.
A ton of push back on my Joey travel observation. I want to make it clear that the no-call on Markus was way more egregious.
Speaking of bad calls and bug moments - and apologies if this one has been discussed: recall the no-call on Joey’s drive that led to Wojo’s T? Anybody else agree that was actually motivated by events immediately preceding that play: the no-call on Chartouny being hacked while driving after we had cut the deficit to 4, then Creighton hitting a 3 immediately after.
Wojo was hot - and with good reason. I believe it was around the 8 minute mark and Creighton only had 1 team foul. After that, the fouls evened out. And the fouls on the big men hedging screens finally started getting called. I believe that finally got Markus the space that he’d needed to get going and opened up the offense as a whole.
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Great point here. Ballock was mouthing off to the refs on multiple occasions.
A ton of push back on my Joey travel observation. I want to make it clear that the no-call on Markus was way more egregious.
Speaking of bad calls and bug moments - and apologies if this one has been discussed: recall the no-call on Joey’s drive that led to Wojo’s T? Anybody else agree that was actually motivated by events immediately preceding that play: the no-call on Chartouny being hacked while driving after we had cut the deficit to 4, then Creighton hitting a 3 immediately after.
Wojo was hot - and with good reason. I believe it was around the 8 minute mark and Creighton only had 1 team foul. After that, the fouls evened out. And the fouls on the big men hedging screens finally started getting called. I believe that finally got Markus the space that he’d needed to get going and opened up the offense as a whole.
The no-call on Joe was egregious.
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Also .. Morrow's technical for hanging on the rim was bogus. Typically, that's given for celebrating a dunk, which was not the case as it was a missed rebound .. but second, there was a player underneath Morrow that he didn't want to fall on.
5 minutes later, a CU player hangs on the rim even longer .. with nobody under him .. no call.
Neither should have been a T, but the 2nd time it happened would have been a perfect make-up call moment.
edit: Morrow. Further edit: Was called on Wojo.
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Also .. Theo's technical for hanging on the rim was bogus. Typically, that's given for celebrating a dunk, which was not the case as it was a missed rebound .. but second, there was a player underneath Theo that he didn't want to fall on.
5 minutes later, a CU player hangs on the rim even longer .. with nobody under him .. no call.
Neither should have been a T, but the 2nd time it happened would have been a perfect make-up call moment.
The Tech was on Wojo for complaining about how Joey was fouled on the drive, no?
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Also .. Theo's technical for hanging on the rim was bogus. Typically, that's given for celebrating a dunk, which was not the case as it was a missed rebound .. but second, there was a player underneath Theo that he didn't want to fall on.
5 minutes later, a CU player hangs on the rim even longer .. with nobody under him .. no call.
Neither should have been a T, but the 2nd time it happened would have been a perfect make-up call moment.
It was Morrow, but also he was trying to a follow up dunk so it was a doubly dumb call...though I didn't realize there was a T there, I thought it was just on Wojo.
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It was Morrow, but also he was trying to a follow up dunk so it was a doubly dumb call...though I didn't realize there was a T there, I thought it was just on Wojo.
I thought it was on Wojo, too.
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It was on wojo
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It was Morrow, but also he was trying to a follow up dunk so it was a doubly dumb call...though I didn't realize there was a T there, I thought it was just on Wojo.
I thought Morrow had jumped for a rebound and grabbed the rim to avoid landing on the Creighton guy under the basket. I don't think he intended on a put back dunk.
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It was Morrow, but also he was trying to a follow up dunk so it was a doubly dumb call...though I didn't realize there was a T there, I thought it was just on Wojo.
If the T was on Ed for hanging on the rim that's even worse.
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Oh. That would make more sense.
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Official box score says:
Technical fouls: #21 Marquette-TEAM.
No idea what that means, but quite sure it was on Wojo.
Oh, and Joey was definitely pushed before the travel. The guy had two hands on Joey's back. And Joey calmly hit the FTs. Good man!
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The Tech was on Wojo for complaining about how Joey was fouled on the drive, no?
Technically yes but I think he was pissed about the Joe one just before.
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It was absolutely on Wojo.
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I disagree. The foul called was for a push which if called would be the reason for the travel. Without a foul called it’s a travel
Agreed
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Maquette is up 6 with the ball and a minute left, i felt about as confident mu would win at that point as Creighton prolky did at the end of regulation.
That call n the SJU call against seton hall are tge two worst calls i have seen in a long long long long time. Unexplainable and simply horrible.
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I thought it was on Wojo, too.
I think it was. Checked the boxscore and Morrow had 2 fouls. Both were regular personals, so no technical on him.
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How did the ref miss Joey’s 3? He’s literally 5 feet from that and is 3 or 4 inches behind the line. For once, thanks for replay...
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Once again it’s important to point out that the game is just way too fast for the poor quality of refs that dominate college basketball. There needs to be a better solution. These guys missed 10-15 calls and got another 10-15 wrong. Unfortunately that’s the norm. Until a major conference does something about it, it will get worse.
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Once again it’s important to point out that the game is just way too fast for the poor quality of refs that dominate college basketball. There needs to be a better solution. These guys missed 10-15 calls and got another 10-15 wrong. Unfortunately that’s the norm. Until a major conference does something about it, it will get worse.
Robot refs? With laser beams?
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Once again it’s important to point out that the game is just way too fast for the poor quality of refs that dominate college basketball. There needs to be a better solution. These guys missed 10-15 calls and got another 10-15 wrong. Unfortunately that’s the norm. Until a major conference does something about it, it will get worse.
What is your proposal?
I ref basketball. It is brutally difficult to officiate. And I only do youth rec leagues now. When I used to do high school, at the end of the night I assumed I missed several calls.
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@JayBilas 34m
Incredible end to regulation in Marquette-Creighton. First, throwing long with .8 up 3 points is the only way you can lose. Inbound under the basket, game is over. Second, closest replay review for the officials you can have. Wow.
That’s exactly what I thought when it happened, if McDermott called that...what a coaching gaffe. Literally just have to inbound without passing directly to an MU player and game is over.
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Must have been a make up call for not retracting Sam’s shot. That’s the only reasonable conclusion one can draw from that call, especially after reviewing it.
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What is your proposal?
I ref basketball. It is brutally difficult to officiate. And I only do youth rec leagues now. When I used to do high school, at the end of the night I assumed I missed several calls.
My proposal is full time refs. Properly trained, have to pass annual fitness (and vision) tests, with a ranking system so the best refs get the top 25 games. Similar to the NBA model. It works there.
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My proposal is full time refs. Properly trained, have to pass annual fitness (and vision) tests, with a ranking system so the best refs get the top 25 games. Similar to the NBA model. It works there.
Not really. Reffing is hard, they all miss there share of calls, some worse than others.
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My proposal is full time refs. Properly trained, have to pass annual fitness (and vision) tests, with a ranking system so the best refs get the top 25 games. Similar to the NBA model. It works there.
Do you watch a lot of NBA ball? They miss a ton of calls, too. The NBA even comes out afterward to document all the huge calls they miss in the last minute of games. It's just a brutally difficult game to officiate. Refs can call something almost every trip down the court.
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There were a few obviously bad calls on both sides. The only thing I truly didn't like was the T on Wojo and the no T for McDermott or Ballock later in the game when they were getting in the refs faces and certainly looked like they were saying things not appropriate for young ears. Gotta call those if you are going to get Wojo earlier in the game.
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Yikes on this no call!
https://twitter.com/Jan_Koller15/status/1083182907366223873 (https://twitter.com/Jan_Koller15/status/1083182907366223873)
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There were a few obviously bad calls on both sides. The only thing I truly didn't like was the T on Wojo and the no T for McDermott or Ballock later in the game when they were getting in the refs faces and certainly looked like they were saying things not appropriate for young ears. Gotta call those if you are going to get Wojo earlier in the game.
Ballock said the magic word and absolutely should have gotten T'd up. A little gutless to not make that call because it was OT. But hell, they called Sam's shot good, so all is forgiven!
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I’ll take our win in sams shot vs our loss on Markus OOB.
Yessir
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It was a quick replay. My suspicion was the ref only watched Markus hand throwing the ball towards out of bounds but didn’t continue the play to see Creighton tip it back?
Markus had a foot out of bounds when the ball hit him after the Creighton player bounced it on the end line. The only thing I can think of is that they weren't sure the ball hit the baseline before it hit Markus (though it seemed pretty obvious to me) so they let the call on the floor stand. I'll take the trade-off of Sam's shot called good vs. that bad call. Plus we were up six at the time, so we were still in good shape.
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Markus had a foot out of bounds when the ball hit him after the Creighton player bounced it on the end line.
That's all I could think when they gave Creighton the ball, but the replays (at least none that I saw) didn't seem to confirm it. And obviously Markus had gotten fouled on the possession.
I have been effusive of my praise of Markus, and deservedly so, but I'm not sure what he was trying to accomplish on that play. IIRC, there were still 20 seconds left on the shot clock and we were up by 6 with less than a minute to play. Why was he dribbling like a maniac toward the baseline? Hold the ball 40 feet from the hoop and get fouled.
Obviously, he more than made up for a few mistakes. And on the podium after the game, he very eloquently credited Sam for the victory. He is quite amazing for many reasons, a true Warrior, a great representative of our great university, and I'm thankful for that!
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I thought Wojo took a page out of Coach K's book intentionally getting a T, he had just called a timeout before that to stop the Jays MO and things were still not going according to plan and he didn't want to burn another TO there but wanted to fire up the team a bit.
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Not really. Reffing is hard, they all miss there share of calls, some worse than others.
Yes, reffing is hard, but it’s not that hard. Every game you can expect bad calls. Block/charge calls or how much contact to allow is hard to adjudged in real time. Did he get ball? Enough ball? Inconsistency is bound to occur from time to time. However outright non compliance to the rule book is NEVER acceptable and it happens multiple times every game.
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Yikes on this no call!
https://twitter.com/Jan_Koller15/status/1083182907366223873 (https://twitter.com/Jan_Koller15/status/1083182907366223873)
Deleted. What was it?
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Deleted. What was it?
Lesser version of this.
(https://i.imgur.com/Tnk0bDh.gif)
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Deleted. What was it?
Try this instead.
https://twitter.com/Jan_Koller15/status/1083157509890809856 (https://twitter.com/Jan_Koller15/status/1083157509890809856)