MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: MU82 on December 12, 2018, 09:42:03 PM
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A little lost in all of the hullaballoo about Dirty Davison's nut-punch on Joey is the fact that the referee closest to the play quickly and decisively made the right call in real time, and then the officials reviewing the play correctly called it a flagrant foul.
We can argue (and I have) that it should have been a Flagrant 2, but they did at least call it a flagrant.
I am especially impressed with the ref who made the call. (I'd use his name here, but I couldn't find it in a quick Google search, and I'm far too lazy to spend a lot of time looking.) It's easy for us to see Davison's heinous act when we watch it a dozen times in slo-mo, but to actually make the call right in real time -- when so many refs probably would have called a moving screen there -- that's pretty awesome. I ref youth basketball, and I can see how it would be easy to totally miss that call.
So yeah, we love to trash the refs here, but I generally thought they did a good job overall Saturday, and I think it's especially great that they were spot-on on that important OT call.
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Totally agree - that was a good crew. They didn't interrupt the flow of the game and got most everything right.
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The crew was:
Earl Walton, Brian Dorsey, and John Gaffney.
I thought they called a very balanced game. There were only a couple flops in the game (shocking), and for the most part they were having none of it. Clearly this particular crew is on to the Davison act. And, if other crews don't want to be viewed as fools, they will adjust to The Badger Way, as well.
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My only criticism was that in the beginning of the 2nd half, they really tightened up how they were calling the game, but even then, it was perfectly balanced. Both teams adjusted and everything continued smoothly.
Good officiating.
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An excellent crew, for sure. I was so impressed, I made sure to look up their names in the box score. I like to joke that if someone's a good ref, then I don't know their name. Sure enough, I didn't recognize any of their names!
Not only did they get the Davison call right, but they got three other key calls right, all in overtime. Reuvers fouling Markus with the body, Happ elbowing Joey in the neck on an offensive rebound, and a no call on Joey when Trice lost the ball out of bounds.
A lot of officials either miss those calls or choose to swallow the whistle. It was refreshing to see those calls made correctly. Of course, many Badgers fans think the refs blew them all.
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My only criticism was that in the beginning of the 2nd half, they really tightened up how they were calling the game, but even then, it was perfectly balanced. Both teams adjusted and everything continued smoothly.
Good officiating.
My complaint as well. The game was called differently in the 1st half when compared to the 2nd.
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My only criticism was that in the beginning of the 2nd half, they really tightened up how they were calling the game, but even then, it was perfectly balanced. Both teams adjusted and everything continued smoothly.
Good officiating.
This was bad, though. They called as many fouls in the first minute of the second half as they called in the entire first half. That is not good officiating. You can't change the game like that.
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This was bad, though. They called as many fouls in the first minute of the second half as they called in the entire first half. That is not good officiating. You can't change the game like that.
Well, maybe they talked about it at halftime and felt that they needed to rein in the contact a little. Officials make halftime adjustments, too.
I have reffed many games in which I felt a game was getting exceedingly physical as it went on, and have huddled with my officiating partner to say, "OK, we need to get a little better control of this one."
I'm not saying it's what happened in MU-UW, just letting you know that it IS part of the process officials in most sports go through.
One can always find reasons to criticize officials in any sport, and especially so in basketball -- a fast-paced game in which something can be called on almost every single trip down the court. Again, I'll state that Saturday's refs did an outstanding job.
Now, one could argue that they are paid quite well to be good, so we shouldn't be applauding them for just doing their job. But I've always been a big believer of giving credit where it's due.
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I'm sure Wisconsin fans aren't too happy about that ticky tack over the back call on Happ at the end that wiped out his tying bucket and sent Morrow to the line for 2. Didn't seem like much of a foul and sealed the game for MU. Though I haven't seen the replay.
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I'm sure Wisconsin fans aren't too happy about that ticky tack over the back call on Happ at the end that wiped out his tying bucket and sent Morrow to the line for 2. Didn't seem like much of a foul and sealed the game for MU. Though I haven't seen the replay.
They were down 4. Ed’s free throws put us up 6. Most likely doesn’t change the outcome. And based on Ethan’s reaction he certainly didn’t seem to disagree with the ref.
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Well, maybe they talked about it at halftime and felt that they needed to rein in the contact a little. Officials make halftime adjustments, too.
I have reffed many games in which I felt a game was getting exceedingly physical as it went on, and have huddled with my officiating partner to say, "OK, we need to get a little better control of this one."
It has to happen from time to time, but they way it changed in the game last Saturday was extreme. And the contact and physicality in the first half wasn't too bad, in my opinion. There were a lot of whistles in the second half that I thought were suspect, and not just because there were so few calls in the first half.
I've never been in their shoes, so I can't say that I know how to best do that job. But when it feels like a completely different crew in each half, that can't be good. It worked out for us, so I'm happy, but I can see why badger fans would be upset with the way the officiating changed in the second half.
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I'm sure Wisconsin fans aren't too happy about that ticky tack over the back call on Happ at the end that wiped out his tying bucket and sent Morrow to the line for 2. Didn't seem like much of a foul and sealed the game for MU. Though I haven't seen the replay.
It was one of those have to call it fouls. Happ absolutely put his hand on Morrows back and pushed. That's a foul. But it was very light and probably not what the rule makers had in mind when writing that rule.
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I'm sure Wisconsin fans aren't too happy about that ticky tack over the back call on Happ at the end that wiped out his tying bucket and sent Morrow to the line for 2. Didn't seem like much of a foul and sealed the game for MU. Though I haven't seen the replay.
The replay makes it very clear that it wasn't ticky tack. Happ took his forearm and drove it into Ed's upper back, causing Ed to lurch and bend forward, clearing the space Happ needed to get the rebound. It was definitely the right call.
It was also the right thing for Happ to try. Badgers were desperate at that point and he needed to try to make something happen. I'm a little surprised, actually, that the refs didn't swallow their whistles, so good on them.
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It was one of those have to call it fouls. Happ absolutely put his hand on Morrows back and pushed. That's a foul. But it was very light and probably not what the rule makers had in mind when writing that rule.
Agreed, definitely a push in the back from Happ and definitely a foul. And something that Happ usually gets away with.
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It has to happen from time to time, but they way it changed in the game last Saturday was extreme. And the contact and physicality in the first half wasn't too bad, in my opinion. There were a lot of whistles in the second half that I thought were suspect, and not just because there were so few calls in the first half.
I've never been in their shoes, so I can't say that I know how to best do that job. But when it feels like a completely different crew in each half, that can't be good. It worked out for us, so I'm happy, but I can see why badger fans would be upset with the way the officiating changed in the second half.
We'll respectfully agree to disagree on this.
As for the Happ foul being discussed by others: Definitely a foul. And again, impressed the refs called it.
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We'll respectfully agree to disagree on this.
As for the Happ foul being discussed by others: Definitely a foul. And again, impressed the refs called it.
That's fair. I'm curious, though - from your experience, if the refs decide they need to change the way a game is being called, do they alert the coaches/teams? Or is it something that the players and coaches need to figure out on the fly?
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That's fair. I'm curious, though - from your experience, if the refs decide they need to change the way a game is being called, do they alert the coaches/teams? Or is it something that the players and coaches need to figure out on the fly?
That's a good question.
Not usually. But I do remember one time doing so when reffing 16-17 year olds. The first half was going fine but the last 2-3 minutes of it, for whatever reason, became quite physical. We called a couple of hand-check and ward-off fouls but let a few go, too. On the very last play of the half, a player for one team gave a two-hand shove to an opponent who was trying to box him out. We called the intentional foul and then, after discussing it at halftime, my partner and I brought the coaches together and told them we weren't going to let the second half be a war zone. It definitely made for a better second half.
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The refs called a lot of fouls on UTEP in the first half. One of their players had 4 fouls for most of the 2nd half yet I don't believe he fouled out. I wonder if they were giving UTEP some slack in the second half. As for the UW game it was nice to see we got some "home cooking" which is standard fare at the Kohl regardless of who they play.
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Home cooking implies there were some bad calls that went our way. Which ones were those?
From what I saw the game was, to steal a phrase from Fox News, "fair and balanced".
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Home cooking implies there were some bad calls that went our way. Which ones were those?
From what I saw the game was, to steal a phrase from Fox News, "fair and balanced".
Home cooking can also mean that there were no calls that in theory could have been called. Now, there's not a foul every time that there is contact, but based on the amount of banging going on in the post, I think there were times that there was no whistle when one could have been called. It goes both ways, but we were probably a little more fortunate.
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So you can't think of any egregious calls or non-calls?
A few stand out to me:
Davison tripping Anim -no call led to 2 pts.
Bailey fouling Ford on a dunk -no call.
Markus clearly fouled on a layup attempt in the 1st half - no call.
There may be a few I am not remembering, but I definitely wouldn't call it one sided.
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Well egregious is a subjective term, but just skimming through the replay:
First UW possession of the game; Iverson posts up Joey, enough contact to potentially warrant a whistle on Joey.
Second UW possession; Happ gets Theo up in the air biting on a pump fake, definitely contact on the ensuing shot that could have been called.
Thrid UW possession; Markus gave Trice a little hand check that is by rule a foul, Joey did the same to Iverson right before he traveled.
There's 3-5 cases of contact happening every possession that could be called a foul. This is pretty universally accepted, since it goes both ways, but there is no doubting that that in most cases (last Saturday including) the home team consistently gets away with just a little bit more. Not always the case, but it happens frequently enough where most teams just accept it.
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Well egregious is a subjective term, but just skimming through the replay:
First UW possession of the game; Iverson posts up Joey, enough contact to potentially warrant a whistle on Joey.
Second UW possession; Happ gets Theo up in the air biting on a pump fake, definitely contact on the ensuing shot that could have been called.
Thrid UW possession; Markus gave Trice a little hand check that is by rule a foul, Joey did the same to Iverson right before he traveled.
There's 3-5 cases of contact happening every possession that could be called a foul. This is pretty universally accepted, since it goes both ways, but there is no doubting that that in most cases (last Saturday including) the home team consistently gets away with just a little bit more. Not always the case, but it happens frequently enough where most teams just accept it.
LOL
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I always like the refs when we win.
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I always like the refs when we win.
That’s proof that they were fair and even.