MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: GGGG on December 09, 2018, 08:25:04 AM
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Remember when some here didn’t think Val was a good hire?
She got it done.
https://www.app.com/story/sports/college/2018/12/09/big-east-tournament-madison-square-garden/2241068002/
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Great news!
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Fantastic
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As HUGE as it was beating Bucky this weekend, this is definitely right up there. Extending the Big East's deal with MSG was absolutely pivotal with the B1G and ACC lurking around outside. They would have loved nothing more than to elbow themselves into our domain, hoping to not only grab a piece of our lucrative and successful conference tournament, but also looking to de-value and hurt our conference so that they can have a strong NE presence for their respective leagues.
This will be a BIG chip in our next television deal negotiations with Fox. Now that we have this in our back pocket, we continue to focus on getting the on-court success that the league has experienced for the past several years.
Val Ackerman: most underrated major conference commissioner in college athletics. As soon as Delaney opened up his mouth about wanting to bump into MSG during tournament week (not a week before), she began negotiations with MSG to extend our deal. Absolutely boss.
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This will be a BIG chip in our next television deal negotiations with Fox. Now that we have this in our back pocket, we continue to focus on getting the on-court success that the league has experienced for the past several years.
That was my thought exactly.
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Other than the obvious importance to the Big East, this also means that this sign will continue to be hysterical
(https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/big-basketball-tournament-comes-to-new-york-directional-distance-signs-each-university-temporarily-posted-th-street-111130938.jpg)
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Wow. I didn't hear about this until this thread. That is great! Thanks you, Val!!
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Wow. I didn't hear about this until this thread. That is great! Thanks you, Val!!
https://nypost.com/2018/12/09/big-east-fends-off-acc-big-ten-to-keep-tournament-at-msg/
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Great news. I'll be seeing it for the first time in March.
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Great news. I'll be seeing it for the first time in March.
Samesies
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Kudos to Val. And appreciate the MSG Board for seeing through the obvious play by the Big10/ACC and remembering where their bread has been buttered for decades.
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Buzz, proven correct; Big East poised to collapse in 2029.
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Listening to her chat about it now during the St. John's game...always on selection weekend as well. AWESOME news.
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Buzz, proven correct; Big East poised to collapse in 2029.
Lol yeah. And we have some Scoopers who just a couple weeks ago were proclaiming Buzz was spot on.
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A bit more on the Madison Square Garden deal, and this:
Ackerman said the league was not in discussion about expansion right now, but when pressed, did admit that more than three schools have approached the Big East about potentially joining the conference.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/court-report-mark-few-continues-to-go-after-mark-emmert-figuring-out-kentuckys-3-point-woes/
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A bit more on the Madison Square Garden deal, and this:
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/court-report-mark-few-continues-to-go-after-mark-emmert-figuring-out-kentuckys-3-point-woes/
UCONN, Dayton...Cinci?
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A bit more on the Madison Square Garden deal, and this:
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/court-report-mark-few-continues-to-go-after-mark-emmert-figuring-out-kentuckys-3-point-woes/
And in the related (and linked) podcast, Gary Parrish and Matt Norlander opine that MU is best team in a watered-down and compacted BE. Also they conclude that Val/BE open to one additional BE member for a “true” round robin (although there are no specific talks outreach happening now). Speculate that the teams in which BE potentially has interest are A-10: basketball first, SLU, VCU, Dayton, Davidson etc... 5 or 6 year timeline maybe. They believe that SLU is most likely.
Uh-oh—go Scoop!
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And in the related (and linked) podcast, Gary Parrish and Matt Norlander opine that MU is best team in a watered-down and compacted BE. Also they conclude that Val/BE open to one additional BE member for a “true” round robin (although there are no specific talks outreach happening now). Speculate that the teams in which BE potentially has interest are A-10: basketball first, SLU, VCU, Dayton, Davidson etc... 5 or 6 year timeline maybe. They believe that SLU is most likely.
Uh-oh—go Scoop!
SLU is the only one that remotely makes sense to me
Private catholic, they have a decent tradition, in a good sized city, and they open up a new TV market that FS1 may have an interest in.
Also not sure what the "true" round robin comment means, we already play everyone home & away.
I hope it stays at 10 unless UConn or Gonzaga want in
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SLU is the only one that remotely makes sense to me
Private catholic, they have a decent tradition, in a good sized city, and they open up a new TV market that FS1 may have an interest in.
Also not sure what the "true" round robin comment means, we already play everyone home & away.
I hope it stays at 10 unless UConn or Gonzaga want in
I agree. Maybe VCU on that list. I think the biggest component to her statement was the school needs to be able to fill the MSG and also be a large help to the league from a competitive standpoint. I don't see SLU as one of those schools that can help fill the MSG.
UConn makes the most sense if they drop football. Gonzaga creates a logistical nightmare, but would add to the competitive front and fan base. VCU has location, fanbase and some reasonably strong recent success.
Should be interesting, but it seems that Val is in the driver's seat and not just making moves to make moves.
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If Detroit was halfway descent they'd be ideal
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UCONN, Dayton...Cinci?
UConn for sure. Gonzaga had reached out one point but I don't think that's doable. Dayton and SLU make the most sense to me as the other two besides UConn. Cinci's football is a much better situation than UConn's so I think they will continue in the AAC until a P5 conference comes a calling.
SLU is the only one that remotely makes sense to me
Private catholic, they have a decent tradition, in a good sized city, and they open up a new TV market that FS1 may have an interest in.
Also not sure what the "true" round robin comment means, we already play everyone home & away.
I hope it stays at 10 unless UConn or Gonzaga want in
I wouldn't like the addition of SLU. Ford has them trending up at the moment but I don't have faith that they have the financials to stay at a competitive level. They have next to no basketball history.
I think the "true" round robin comment was saying that we could add one more team and still keep the current true round robin that we have. We'd simply extend the conference season to 20 which is all the rage nowadays.
If the Big East were to expand, which I think it will eventually, I think it will be UConn. History, tradition, and most importantly $$$. I'd love Gonzaga but I just don't see it happening. SLU and Dayton would need to grow a ton before I'd give them a sniff.
My guess is that the next round of expansion won't be until after the 24-25 season. I think the world is waiting on the Big 12 to implode. I have this fantasy where Kansas gets left in the cold, drops football, and joins the Big East.
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SLU is the only one that remotely makes sense to me
Private catholic, they have a decent tradition, in a good sized city, and they open up a new TV market that FS1 may have an interest in.
Also not sure what the "true" round robin comment means, we already play everyone home & away.
I hope it stays at 10 unless UConn or Gonzaga want in
True round robin for a 20 game conf schedule like BIG and the rest will be at in the next few years.
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UConn for sure. Gonzaga had reached out one point but I don't think that's doable. Dayton and SLU make the most sense to me as the other two besides UConn. Cinci's football is a much better situation than UConn's so I think they will continue in the AAC until a P5 conference comes a calling.
I wouldn't like the addition of SLU. Ford has them trending up at the moment but I don't have faith that they have the financials to stay at a competitive level. They have next to no basketball history.
I think the "true" round robin comment was saying that we could add one more team and still keep the current true round robin that we have. We'd simply extend the conference season to 20 which is all the rage nowadays.
If the Big East were to expand, which I think it will eventually, I think it will be UConn. History, tradition, and most importantly $$$. I'd love Gonzaga but I just don't see it happening. SLU and Dayton would need to grow a ton before I'd give them a sniff.
My guess is that the next round of expansion won't be until after the 24-25 season. I think the world is waiting on the Big 12 to implode. I have this fantasy where Kansas gets left in the cold, drops football, and joins the Big East.
Okay that makes more sense re: round robin comment
And as long as we're fantasizing, why not have BOTH KU & UConn drop football and join us? Let's do this right!
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Another random thought, financial commitment to athletics is the best indicator IMHO of potential. Schools that are financially sound could turn from basketball nobodies to somebodies if they decided to throw money at their athletic programs. This has made me wonder if schools like Boston University and Denver could be dark horse candidates. You would need to see a lot of progress, obviously. But both schools have a lot of money to spend and if they used it to improve their basketball programs, I think they could develop into candidates. This would of course take years, possibly decades so neither are candidates for immediate expansion.
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A lot of interesting updates have come up in the last few days, since the BE announced its new TV deal.
First, Val openly stated that the Big East could go to eleven members in order preserve the round-robin format. A few weeks ago, she also had a comment about wanting schools that "want to be here" (i.e. not using it as a stopgap until something better came along). With the BE keeping MSG, and likely getting a strong chip in negotiations to extend with Fox (our games on Saturday offered strong ratings on the big network), we are in a position of strength to add, not out of despiration.
Secondly, the AAC is in all sorts of mess right now. Aresco, whom we nearly got stuck with in the divorce, had to clarify some thoughts on a theorhetical GOR for the AAC, where it was rumored that he wanted to give unequal revenue distribution to "the Fortunate Five" - UCF, USF, Houston, Cincinnati and Memphis (which, rumored, really upset other conference members, namely UConn). If the next AAC TV deal is not in the $8-$10 million range (which UConn was making in the Big East, and in the AAC due to the divorce package under war chest funds), and UConn realizes they will be making even less money, then the likelihood of them pursuing a Big East membership becomes much closer to reality. UConn to the Big East would definitely make the league and its membership more money and exposure overall.
With SLU having an incredibly strong attendance figure against Butler (nearly 10k) and wins against both Butler and Seton Hall, that is definitely a significant push in the right direction for their candidacy. They already bring a like-minded institution (Jesuit), in a big media market (St. Louis - which has a great viewership opening in the Winter, thanks to the Rams leaving and no NBA team) and modern/updated athletic facilities. With basketball on the up-and-up under Ford, he had a strong recruiting class the past two years, and a 7-2 start this season, if they were to win the A-10, or even get a win or two in the tournament, they would be brought in when their stock is high, thus allowing them to adjust to the Big East over the course of a few years - not unlike Butler, Creighton and Xavier successfully did.
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Another random thought, financial commitment to athletics is the best indicator IMHO of potential. Schools that are financially sound could turn from basketball nobodies to somebodies if they decided to throw money at their athletic programs. This has made me wonder if schools like Boston University and Denver could be dark horse candidates. You would need to see a lot of progress, obviously. But both schools have a lot of money to spend and if they used it to improve their basketball programs, I think they could develop into candidates. This would of course take years, possibly decades so neither are candidates for immediate expansion.
You want to disregard a school like SLU (who has made financial commitments to Ford and with their arena) because of their lack of program history, yet you want to add programs like Boston and Denver because they have financial potential (which they haven't used - ever - on basketball), yet they have never made the NCAA Tournament (Denver), or have not reached a Sweet 16 since the 1950's (Boston)? That logic does not make sense at all.
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You want to disregard a school like SLU (who has made financial commitments to Ford and with their arena) because of their lack of program history, yet you want to add programs like Boston and Denver because they have financial potential (which they haven't used - ever - on basketball), yet they have never made the NCAA Tournament (Denver), or have not reached a Sweet 16 since the 1950's (Boston)? That logic does not make sense at all.
Dig into SLU's financials. I'm not convinced that they have the resources to make a continuing commitment to athletics.
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Saint Louis ($1 billion) has a higher endowment than Denver ($770 million). Boston does have a $2.1 billion endowment, but they play a majority of their games in the tiny Case Gym. In their game last week, they had a whopping 603 people attend the game. Boston University has as an incredibly slim chance of ever getting an invitation to the Big East.
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A bit more on the Madison Square Garden deal, and this:
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/court-report-mark-few-continues-to-go-after-mark-emmert-figuring-out-kentuckys-3-point-woes/
Reading that link as a run-on sentence made me chuckle.
"Mark Few continues to go after Mark Emmert figuring out Kentucky's 3 point woes."
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Why can't Gonzaga join the BE as a basketball only member and keep their olympic sports in the WCC?
They could even subsidize the WCC with a percentage of their found money in joining the Big East.
Like it or not, every candidate outside of Gonzaga, UConn and maybe Cinci would be less of a member than current members. Not sure that's a recipe for success.
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UConn and Cincy aren't candidates. Because football.
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Saint Louis ($1 billion) has a higher endowment than Denver ($770 million). Boston does have a $2.1 billion endowment, but they play a majority of their games in the tiny Case Gym. In their game last week, they had a whopping 603 people attend the game. Boston University has as an incredibly slim chance of ever getting an invitation to the Big East.
Endowment isn't everything. And yes, both have an incredibly slim chance of ever getting an invite. That's why I said things like "dark horse", "not candidates for immediate expansion", and "would take decades". If you have to expand right this second you absolutely take SLU over either of them.
Fortunately, we don't have to expand right this second. I don't think SLU is anywhere close to deserving of an invite and I don't have faith that they will ever get there. I could be wrong but I think what we're seeing now is their peak. If we were to expand right now the only (realistic) team I see us expanding for is UConn.
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But you did nail one thing: There are no clear-cut choices that meet our criteria (geography, commitment to basketball, improving the conference). I don't expect the Big East to expand until that changes. In the meantime, it absolutely doesn't need to.
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UConn and Cincy aren't candidates. Because football.
Football is a barrier. It doesn't remove them as candidates. You find a way to mitigate that barrier (either by removing football or making the deal sweet enough for the Big East that it makes up for drama of having a football school) and either could be added to the conference.
Cincy I don't think is realistic because their football program is actually viable. Not sure the same can be said for UConn.
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If we were to expand right now the only (realistic) team I see us expanding for is UConn.
UConn isn't even that (a parenthetically "realistic" candidate), because football. The Big East presidents emphasized the importance of commitment to basketball back in 2013. The Big East commissioner emphasized the importance of commitment to basketball in her latest interview. UConn is not committed to basketball. If they were, they'd likely already be a member.
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UConn isn't even that (a parenthetically "realistic" candidate), because football. The Big East presidents emphasized the importance of commitment to basketball back in 2013. The Big East commissioner emphasized the importance of commitment to basketball in her latest interview. UConn is not committed to basketball. If they were, they'd likely already be a member.
Yeah... The only thing they're actually committed to is the bottom line. Everything else is negotiable.
If UConn being in the Big East would make them more $$$, they would welcome the Huskies and their football with open arms.
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But you did nail one thing: There are no clear-cut choices that meet our criteria (geography, commitment to basketball, improving the conference). I don't expect the Big East to expand until that changes. In the meantime, it absolutely doesn't need to.
Agreed, unless there's a CLEAR candidate that meets those criteria, stay as-is.
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Okay that makes more sense re: round robin comment
And as long as we're fantasizing, why not have BOTH KU & UConn drop football and join us? Let's do this right!
Might as well add Duke while were at it.
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You find a way to mitigate that barrier (either by removing football or making the deal sweet enough for the Big East that it makes up for drama of having a football school) and either could be added to the conference.
For the past 20 years, the administration has pursued a football-first strategy. They believe UConn belongs in a Power-5 football conference. That UConn deserves upwards of $30 million a year in conference payouts. Reality has done nothing to dissuade them. I think that's more than a barrier.
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Why can't Gonzaga join the BE as a basketball only member and keep their olympic sports in the WCC?
They could even subsidize the WCC with a percentage of their found money in joining the Big East.
I think the amount of money that it would take for the WCC to agree to that would be much more than the Zags would be willing to pay.
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For the past 20 years, the administration has pursued a football-first strategy. They believe UConn belongs in a Power-5 football conference. That UConn deserves upwards of $30 million a year in conference payouts. Reality has done nothing to dissuade them. I think that's more than a barrier.
If that were the case then they wouldn't have reached out to the Big East.
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Since we're fantasizing about who to add, can we also talk about dropping DePaul?
Every school in the C7 stepped up their game (either literally or metaphorically speaking) since the Big East renovation. Seton Hall and Providence are perennially competitive. St. John's is going through a rebirth. Georgetown has trended in the wrong direction lately, but has at least shown glimpses of righting the ship (or being able to) soon. MU already spends more on hoops than everyone else in the NCAA 'cept Duke and has a brand new arena (so not much more to improve off the court) and Nova... well, the last three years says everything.
Then there's DePaul. Last place, last place, last place, last place.... well they did go to the Final Four last year, oh wait, never mind, that was the better Catholic team from Chicago. Think about that... LUC has more NCAA Tourney appearances than DePaul since the Reagan Administration. If you wanted an indicator that DePaul is serious about basketball, look no further than the finest indicator in the NCAA known to human kind regarding one's commitment to basketball (or lack thereof): JLP.
IMO, if we're going to talk about changes to conference membership, the debate shouldn't be about SLU, Gonzaga, Dayton, Denver, Fordham, Duke or UCONN. It should be about DePaul, period. Then we can figure everything else out.
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Why can't Gonzaga join the BE as a basketball only member and keep their olympic sports in the WCC?
They could even subsidize the WCC with a percentage of their found money in joining the Big East.
Like it or not, every candidate outside of Gonzaga, UConn and maybe Cinci would be less of a member than current members. Not sure that's a recipe for success.
NCAA rules prevent it. You can't have basketball-only members; your basketball conference is your main conference. You can be a football-only in a conference, but only if your other sports are in another league (which would have happened if Boise State and San Diego State joined Big East Football a few years ago).
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For the past 20 years, the administration has pursued a football-first strategy. They believe UConn belongs in a Power-5 football conference. That UConn deserves upwards of $30 million a year in conference payouts. Reality has done nothing to dissuade them. I think that's more than a barrier.
And this is why UConn is in BIG trouble moving forward. They made the financial commitment to elevate football to FBS-level in early 2000's, thinking they were investing in an ACC invite. Unfortunately, UConn did not have a D1 football program that carried the same history as other programs that were called up: Boston College, Miami, Virginia Tech, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, West Virginia and Louisville. They have now fallen behind USF, UCF, Memphis, Houston and Cincinnati in the AAC. They have the highest G5 athletic budget, but it is mostly subsidized by student fees and state allocations (not via natural revenue). They aren't getting a B1G invite (non-AAU status). They won't be getting an ACC invitation, unless Florida State, Clemson, Georgia Tech and Miami all leave (they won't risk diluting ACC Football for one of the worst FBS programs in the country).
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Fine. If Duke wants to drop football, we can have a conversation.
But for real, we're in a good place and don't need to expand for the sake of expanding, so it would have to be someone who adds value to the BE on their own. That list and the list of schools who may be interested in joining may have only one overlap: UConn. Maybe Cincinnati?
SLU, Dayton, VCU, etc. can kick rocks. Sorry, the BE doesn't need you, so you're not getting the BE money.
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It is nice to negotiate from a position of strength.
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But you did nail one thing: There are no clear-cut choices that meet our criteria (geography, commitment to basketball, improving the conference). I don't expect the Big East to expand until that changes. In the meantime, it absolutely doesn't need to.
This, this, this.
There is no perfect candidate right now, and the current product is working pretty well, so why change? If it ain’t broke...
And this isn’t to say I’m anti-expansion. But every possible school talked about has downsides that risk that we’d either be adding another potential DePaul (Dayton, SLU, etc) or a school that isn’t as good of an institutional fit that you’d always have to worry about them getting poached for football (UConn, Cincinnati). Since the NBE reformed, I’ve been waiting for one of these schools to sustain success that makes it impossible to ignore, but none have really done that. So stick with whatcha got.
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But every possible school talked about has downsides that risk that we’d either be adding another potential DePaul (Dayton, SLU, etc) or a school that isn’t as good of an institutional fit that you’d always have to worry about them getting poached for football (UConn, Cincinnati). Since the NBE reformed, I’ve been waiting for one of these schools to sustain success that makes it impossible to ignore, but none have really done that. So stick with whatcha got.
I agree with the first part.
As to the bolded, though, I'm good with adding ONE of those. If they do get poached for football, easy to go back to whatcha had.
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I agree with the first part.
As to the bolded, though, I'm good with adding ONE of those. If they do get poached for football, easy to go back to whatcha had.
Maybe eventually, but I’m not even convinced you need either right now or that they make the conference considerably better. Give Hurley a few years at UConn and if he has them regularly back in contention, then make the move. No need right now when they aren’t a great fit otherwise. Unless they are so desperate to make an offer you can’t refuse—giving up a huge share of their TV money, etc.—I think you can wait on them.
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A lot of interesting updates have come up in the last few days, since the BE announced its new TV deal.
First, Val openly stated that the Big East could go to eleven members in order preserve the round-robin format. A few weeks ago, she also had a comment about wanting schools that "want to be here" (i.e. not using it as a stopgap until something better came along). With the BE keeping MSG, and likely getting a strong chip in negotiations to extend with Fox (our games on Saturday offered strong ratings on the big network), we are in a position of strength to add, not out of despiration.
Secondly, the AAC is in all sorts of mess right now. Aresco, whom we nearly got stuck with in the divorce, had to clarify some thoughts on a theorhetical GOR for the AAC, where it was rumored that he wanted to give unequal revenue distribution to "the Fortunate Five" - UCF, USF, Houston, Cincinnati and Memphis (which, rumored, really upset other conference members, namely UConn). If the next AAC TV deal is not in the $8-$10 million range (which UConn was making in the Big East, and in the AAC due to the divorce package under war chest funds), and UConn realizes they will be making even less money, then the likelihood of them pursuing a Big East membership becomes much closer to reality. UConn to the Big East would definitely make the league and its membership more money and exposure overall.
With SLU having an incredibly strong attendance figure against Butler (nearly 10k) and wins against both Butler and Seton Hall, that is definitely a significant push in the right direction for their candidacy. They already bring a like-minded institution (Jesuit), in a big media market (St. Louis - which has a great viewership opening in the Winter, thanks to the Rams leaving and no NBA team) and modern/updated athletic facilities. With basketball on the up-and-up under Ford, he had a strong recruiting class the past two years, and a 7-2 start this season, if they were to win the A-10, or even get a win or two in the tournament, they would be brought in when their stock is high, thus allowing them to adjust to the Big East over the course of a few years - not unlike Butler, Creighton and Xavier successfully did.
Dislike immensely. The butlers n SLUs will always be second fiddle type programs. The same could be said about the other Big East institutions, although they have longer more accomplished resumes. Nevertheless i dont see SLU adding anything to tge conference except a bottom wrung team in most years and a middle of the pack in their good years type team. Unless u can hit a home run i woukd suggest leaving as is.
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The butlers n SLUs will always be second fiddle type programs.
I trust you didn't seriously mean to say "Butler" here.
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I trust you didn't seriously mean to say "Butler" here.
To be fair we make such a point about how UW is just in their stretch of glory years and won't maintain it, the same could be said about Butler, almost all of their basketball history has come since 97, even if you include NITs because they were in a mid major there's still not much to brag about.
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Can we get a filter for "Dayton" that autocorrects to "Anyone but Dayton" or "ABD"?
There's a significant bribe of Beef N' Cheddars in it for you.
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More discussion on this from today’s Eye on College Basketball podcast with Parrish and Norlander.
They mention St. Louis and seem to doubt UCONN coming back, though they say UCONN fans would love it.
Also they both now are predicting Marquette as Big East champs after Nova’s recent loss.
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/cbs-sports-eye-on-college-basketball-podcast/id268800565?mt=2#episodeGuid=e16a9d82-fe2d-11e8-a478-f76745552a6b
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Since we're fantasizing about who to add, can we also talk about dropping DePaul?
Every school in the C7 stepped up their game (either literally or metaphorically speaking) since the Big East renovation. Seton Hall and Providence are perennially competitive. St. John's is going through a rebirth. Georgetown has trended in the wrong direction lately, but has at least shown glimpses of righting the ship (or being able to) soon. MU already spends more on hoops than everyone else in the NCAA 'cept Duke and has a brand new arena (so not much more to improve off the court) and Nova... well, the last three years says everything.
Then there's DePaul. Last place, last place, last place, last place.... well they did go to the Final Four last year, oh wait, never mind, that was the better Catholic team from Chicago. Think about that... LUC has more NCAA Tourney appearances than DePaul since the Reagan Administration. If you wanted an indicator that DePaul is serious about basketball, look no further than the finest indicator in the NCAA known to human kind regarding one's commitment to basketball (or lack thereof): JLP.
IMO, if we're going to talk about changes to conference membership, the debate shouldn't be about SLU, Gonzaga, Dayton, Denver, Fordham, Duke or UCONN. It should be about DePaul, period. Then we can figure everything else out.
There isn't much positive to say about DePaul's program.
Except that they're currently rated higher by KenPom (102nd) than the two worst teams in the Big 10 (Illinois and Rutgers at 105th and 110th, respectively), the two worst teams in the ACC (Pitt and Wake Forest at 114th and 141st), the two worst teams in the SEC (South Carolina and Georgia at 103rd and 124th), and the three worst teams in the Pac-10 (Utah, Stanford and Washington St. at 129th, 170th and 175th).
Loyola Chicago isn't doing much better this season at 93rd. St. Louis and Dayton are ranked 72nd and 75th, behind 8 Big East teams.
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For comparison, KenPom ranked UConn 96th and 179th the past two seasons. They're currently at 79th. Far cry from the program that won 4 NCAA titles between 1999 and 2014.
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If SLU has a bil endowment, wee need viagra, hey?
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I trust you didn't seriously mean to say "Butler" here.
Absolutely did. The Big East programs have been good for 60-70 years or more. Butler was barely D1 20 years ago. Did they have great 2 year run yes, beyond that they have the least most impressive resume in the conference.
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They were a Horizon league team this decade.
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Absolutely did. The Big East programs have been good for 60-70 years or more. Butler was barely D1 20 years ago. Did they have great 2 year run yes, beyond that they have the least most impressive resume in the conference.
Yeah? Somehow they manage to kick our arse every year. ::)
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DePaul is to the BEast what Rutgers is to the Big14: Sucky team residing in a large TV market.
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Absolutely did. The Big East programs have been good for 60-70 years or more. Butler was barely D1 20 years ago. Did they have great 2 year run yes, beyond that they have the least most impressive resume in the conference.
A great two year run? Try again.
Your definition of second rate teams and unimpressive resumes is curious. Butler has something like 15 tournament appearances since 2000, five sweet 16s, and back-to-back NC appearances. Put that resume to any basketball-only school east of Omaha and north of the the Mason-Dixon and that team would already BE in the Big East, or on Val's speed dial at worst. By your criteria, who belongs in the conf? Georgetown....Nova....maybe St Johns. Anybody else? We sure wouldn't qualify.
No "storied" program ever started out storied.
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If SLU has a bil endowment, wee need viagra, hey?
Huh?
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Why can't Gonzaga join the BE as a basketball only member and keep their olympic sports in the WCC?
They could even subsidize the WCC with a percentage of their found money in joining the Big East.
Like it or not, every candidate outside of Gonzaga, UConn and maybe Cinci would be less of a member than current members. Not sure that's a recipe for success.
Why would the WCC go for this?
If I was the WCC I would tell Gonzaga to pound sand, no upside for the WCC as it effectivelynwould destroy their conference.
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Whet power does the WCC have? Everything they have they owe to Gonzaga.
Tho it’s probably moot, apparently your main conf needs to be your hoops conf.
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Norte Dame or Gonzaga are the only two that have some juice and check every box save for their respective fatal flaws (Gonzaga’s being geography and Notre Dame’s being that they’re Notre Dame). Everybody else being mentioned/rumored? Meh.
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A great two year run? Try again.
Your definition of second rate teams and unimpressive resumes is curious. Butler has something like 15 tournament appearances since 2000, five sweet 16s, and back-to-back NC appearances. Put that resume to any basketball-only school east of Omaha and north of the the Mason-Dixon and that team would already BE in the Big East, or on Val's speed dial at worst. By your criteria, who belongs in the conf? Georgetown....Nova....maybe St Johns. Anybody else? We sure wouldn't qualify.
No "storied" program ever started out storied.
Why wouldn't we qualify? If we accept that Marquette basketball started in 1955 or 64yrs ago which is right in that 60-70yr range then we have a resume that holds up better than St. John's and almost to Gtowns.
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Don't mistake me. I regard MU as a top-shelf program, notwithstanding the fact that the program as we know it nearly went away in the 80s after an extended run of futility. We belong where we are.
Sand Knit dismisses Butler as second rate, having been a Horizon school not long ago. We were C-USA 13 years ago, and Midwest-something-or-other before that. Creighton was MVC. X was A-10. If previous conference matters, the Big East, which routinely puts 50-70% of its members in the NCAAs, is half-composed of these "lesser" programs. I find that notion ridiculous.
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Whet power does the WCC have? Everything they have they owe to Gonzaga.
Tho it’s probably moot, apparently your main conf needs to be your hoops conf.
Everything they have they owe to Gonzaga basketball. So if they could move their basketball program elsewhere, why would the WCC agree to keep them around?
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Back to the Gonzaga thing for a minute. Do you guys know how unbelievably far away Spokane is? I do. I just drove through it on a cross country trip from Chicago to Seattle. Trust me. Far. Like really, really far. It makes going to Omaha like a night out for beers in the neighborhood. ::)
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It makes going to Omaha like a night out for beers in the neighborhood. ::)
How many head of cattle are roaming the streets in your neighborhood?
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Back to the Gonzaga thing for a minute. Do you guys know how unbelievably far away Spokane is? I do. I just drove through it on a cross country trip from Chicago to Seattle. Trust me. Far. Like really, really far. It makes going to Omaha like a night out for beers in the neighborhood. ::)
Every team makes the trip once. The hardship falls on Gonzaga who is making no small trips to San Fran, LA and San Diego. But some creative scheduling can help
MU / DePaul road trip
Hall / SJU road trip
PC / Nova / Gtown (do it before 2nd semester starts)
Omaha / X road trip
Everything they have they owe to Gonzaga basketball. So if they could move their basketball program elsewhere, why would the WCC agree to keep them around?
Everything is negotiable.
The Zags could use some of their new found wealth to offset damages to the WCC contract. They could schedule 2-4 WCC teams per year with ESPN to help maintain the value (they won't be playing A&M, Illinois, Arizona, Duke, UNC & Tenn if they join the Big East).
If you can be in one conference for hoops and one for everything else, it is doable.
Just depends on how valuable FS1 thinks Gonzaga is.
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I suppose we could revive the last 5 threads where the Zags have been argued for. I sit it out. Enjoy.
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Back to the Gonzaga thing for a minute. Do you guys know how unbelievably far away Spokane is? I do. I just drove through it on a cross country trip from Chicago to Seattle. Trust me. Far. Like really, really far. It makes going to Omaha like a night out for beers in the neighborhood. ::)
Fly to Spokane often, and It’s really not bad. I can imagine driving would be horrible
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Back to the Gonzaga thing for a minute. Do you guys know how unbelievably far away Spokane is? I do. I just drove through it on a cross country trip from Chicago to Seattle. Trust me. Far. Like really, really far. It makes going to Omaha like a night out for beers in the neighborhood. ::)
Maybe the teams would fly there...seems much faster than driving. However, you would miss the stops to Mt Rushmore.
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Don't forget you must add the cost for all sports.
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Maybe the teams would fly there...seems much faster than driving. However, you would miss the stops to Mt Rushmore.
Wojo is gonna love Wall Drug.
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If UCONN ever comes back to the Big East I want Steve Novak to throw the honorary tip-off in Milwaukee to welcome them back.
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Don't forget you must add the cost for all sports.
I bet some Georgetown lawyers could lay out a case to the NCAA that gets that rule changed.
Rules are meant to be changed by attorneys.
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This has made me wonder if schools like Boston University and Denver could be dark horse candidates.
I would LOVE if BU opened up the taps and started spending on their basketball program. Two New England appearances for MU every year? Sign me up!
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Whet power does the WCC have? Everything they have they owe to Gonzaga.
Tho it’s probably moot, apparently your main conf needs to be your hoops conf.
Why would Gonzaga want to trek east for so many games? Terrible for the team and it’s fans. geographically a really bad fit
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Why would Gonzaga want to trek east for so many games? Terrible for the team and it’s fans. geographically a really bad fit
OMG, you got me!
I wasn’t thinking about their fans!!!
I’m so embarrassed!!!!!
I mean now they get to drive 13 hours to BYU and 13 hours to Santa Clara / St Mary’s and 18 hours to Loyola Marymount / Pepperdine (20+ to San Diego). They’re going to totally miss that!
Man I would be a terrible A.D. I need to consider the fans more. They’re gonna hate jumping on a 3 hour flight to Chicago or a 4 hour plane to NYC.
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Every team makes the trip once. The hardship falls on Gonzaga who is making no small trips to San Fran, LA and San Diego. But some creative scheduling can help
MU / DePaul road trip
Hall / SJU road trip
PC / Nova / Gtown (do it before 2nd semester starts)
Omaha / X road trip
Everything is negotiable.
The Zags could use some of their new found wealth to offset damages to the WCC contract. They could schedule 2-4 WCC teams per year with ESPN to help maintain the value (they won't be playing A&M, Illinois, Arizona, Duke, UNC & Tenn if they join the Big East).
If you can be in one conference for hoops and one for everything else, it is doable.
Just depends on how valuable FS1 thinks Gonzaga is.
I just don't see how it would work out to the benefit of all parties. It really isn't that much money. Certainly not enough in my opinion for the WCC to allow it.
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Maybe the teams would fly there...seems much faster than driving. However, you would miss the stops to Mt Rushmore.
The drive to the Pacific NW isn't bad except for the extreme distance and potential for severe winter weather. Doing a little touristy stuff in the Black Hills helps break it up. None of the stuff is too far off I-90. A summer trip is preferred because Yellowstone/Glacier become options. In response to MUPilot, the Coeur d'Alene/Spokane area is quite nice and the mountain passes east of there in western Montana are beautiful.
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If a deal existed that made both Gonzaga $$$ and the Big East $$$ then Gonzaga would join the Big East, geography be damned.
I'm just not sure that such a deal exists in the current landscape.
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OMG, you got me!
I wasn’t thinking about their fans!!!
I’m so embarrassed!!!!!
I mean now they get to drive 13 hours to BYU and 13 hours to Santa Clara / St Mary’s and 18 hours to Loyola Marymount / Pepperdine (20+ to San Diego). They’re going to totally miss that!
Man I would be a terrible A.D. I need to consider the fans more. They’re gonna hate jumping on a 3 hour flight to Chicago or a 4 hour plane to NYC.
Thank you for clearing that up.