MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on November 17, 2018, 02:20:20 PM
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...….Marquette had been up 37-12 after 12 minutes and then cruised to an 83-64 win? Still would have been 28 minutes of being outscored by Presbyterian.
... Wojo had thought Chartouny was a wasted scholarship like so many on this board seemed to after only 3 games?
It is a long season. Try drinking chamomile tea.
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Eloquent as always Tower. Thumbs up my man.
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Tower
Only a true hater would not be happy with the play of JC today. That said, it really comes down to games against D1 teams that compete to play into March. I still am not a believer he can play at high level against stiffer competition.
I said earlier in the week that Wojo has to give him the keys and run with it. He needs to play at high level for this team to compete against better competition.
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I'm sorry, I don't get your point.
What if....
-MU played like a reasonably competent team that regularly finished in the upper half of its league
-MU played with a consistent identity, so we had a goal that we were working towards instead of just talking about
-MU actually won a game in the tournament once every 5 years
I bet all would lead to less complaints, if that's what you meant.
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...….Marquette had been up 37-12 after 12 minutes and then cruised to an 83-64 win? Still would have been 28 minutes of being outscored by Presbyterian.
... Wojo had thought Chartouny was a wasted scholarship like so many on this board seemed to after only 3 games?
It is a long season. Try drinking chamomile tea.
My thoughts exactly. Those shots go in early and we cruise to a 19 point win, the whiners here are silent. I'm glad we were down, had to battle back and face adversity. Some guys may have found their roles today. Always be learning.
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What if we beat Indiana. What if we beat Kansas. Man can go all day.
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Tower
Only a true hater would not be happy with the play of JC today. That said, it really comes down to games against D1 teams that compete to play into March. I still am not a believer he can play at high level against stiffer competition.
I said earlier in the week that Wojo has to give him the keys and run with it. He needs to play at high level for this team to compete against better competition.
Agree. I'm cautiously optimistic but doing it in the Big East is different than doing it vs. Presbyterian. It is a good start, though.
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Tower
Only a true hater would not be happy with the play of JC today. That said, it really comes down to games against D1 teams that compete to play into March. I still am not a believer he can play at high level against stiffer competition.
I said earlier in the week that Wojo has to give him the keys and run with it. He needs to play at high level for this team to compete against better competition.
I posted his stats from Fordham. Yes, the A-10 is not the Big East. But the man played a lot of basketball well against decent teams. He stunk his first 3 games for MU. We should have learned from Carlino, Reinhardt, Lockett, Rowsey to be patient. But so many just don't. Chartouny is not going to have 16-8 every game. But the man can play.
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Tower
Hope you are right. A lot is riding on him. Time will tell.
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How many minutes of "good basketball" have we seen in our 160 played so far? Maybe 50? And that's against 3 cupcakes.
I don't care if we play our guts out and lose - but the first 30 of this game no one looked like they had any clue what to do - apart from some open missed threes, there was a lot of 1 on 5 iso ball and turnstile defense.
I hope we're getting the kinks worked out, and the last 11 minutes looked pretty good, but let's see if that carries through to our next start.
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Considering this game was a near disaster it really couldn't have worked out better. If MU is to have a chance to do well this year Joe C MUST play well enough to start and play 25+ minutes. Marcus is not a point guard. Elliott is completely unproven at the point. Joe's performance will be the difference between MU staying around the top 25 or another also ran season. That's why the way this unfolded was so important. Joe had to make plays when it counted (that wouldn't have happened if MU had cruised) and he did it. That has got to be a lift for his confidence. It also helps to establish that same confidence in him by his teammates which is so important for a PG. Joe doesn't have to score 16 every night, he doesn't even have to be in double figures. But he does need to be a threat to score to keep the defense honest. When he plays like he did today the rest of the team plays better because they know they have a guy who will get them the ball if they do their part to work to get open and won't turn it over so they spend all their time running back against fast breaks by the opponent. OK it was only against the Blue Hose a sub 300 team so there is certainly plenty left to prove. But given the millions of scenarios that could have happened today Joe C getting extended play and leading the team when it mattered was the best possible outcome.
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What if... Markus stopped playing PG. 11 TO vs. 10 assists the past 2 games. Think we can all agree this experiment needs to end ASAP
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What if... Markus stopped playing PG. 11 TO vs. 10 assists the past 2 games. Think we can all agree this experiment needs to end ASAP
So is Joe playing 40 minutes a game? Markus has had a rough start this season. Let's hope he learns from it because he is going to have to play some point
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Presbyterian has outperformed expectations in every D1 game they've played this year and scored triple digits in their D2 games. They will contend for their league title and a NCAA bid. Wouldn't at all surprise me if they stole one from UCLA, Butler, or Dayton on the road and we were lucky it wasn't us.
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Presbyterian has outperformed expectations in every D1 game they've played this year and scored triple digits in their D2 games. They will contend for their league title and a NCAA bid. Wouldn't at all surprise me if they stole one from UCLA, Butler, or Dayton on the road and we were lucky it wasn't us.
They could maybe contend for their league title, but I do not agree that it wouldn’t be a surprise if they beat any of those 3 teams.
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They could maybe contend for their league title, but I do not agree that it wouldn’t be a surprise if they beat any of those 3 teams.
They held their own for 30 minutes against borderline top-100 Charleston before fading down the stretch. They held their own for 30 minutes with top-30 Marquette before fading down the stretch. UCLA and Butler are ranked similar to us, Dayton is ranked similar to Charleston. No reason they can't steal one of those.
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What if...it was Christmas every day!
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Tower
Only a true hater would not be happy with the play of JC today. That said, it really comes down to games against D1 teams that compete to play into March. I still am not a believer he can play at high level against stiffer competition.
I said earlier in the week that Wojo has to give him the keys and run with it. He needs to play at high level for this team to compete against better competition.
For better or worse he is our only hope. I for one think he is capable of being a really solid floor general, play the 19 yo at the 2
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They held their own for 30 minutes against borderline top-100 Charleston before fading down the stretch. They held their own for 30 minutes with top-30 Marquette before fading down the stretch. UCLA and Butler are ranked similar to us, Dayton is ranked similar to Charleston. No reason they can't steal one of those.
PC was greatly helped by MU's (mostly) unforced turnovers and poor shooting. PC outscored MU 16-5 on points scored off turnovers and MU was 1-16 on treys with 12:45ish to go. MU was certainly stumbling over its own toes. I'll go with UCLA and Butler easily over PC. Dayton is another story and I would not be shocked if the Blue Hose would win that game. Key for PC is to keep their center #15/Lewis on the floor. He is kind of the glue for PC. PC was 8-8 (and 7 of last 10) last year when Lewis was ruled academically ineligible. PC went 3-13 after that.
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...….Marquette had been up 37-12 after 12 minutes and then cruised to an 83-64 win? Still would have been 28 minutes of being outscored by Presbyterian.
... Wojo had thought Chartouny was a wasted scholarship like so many on this board seemed to after only 3 games?
It is a long season. Try drinking chamomile tea.
So what are your expectations for this team. Easy to tell everyone to chill...but no one doing so is giving their expectations. I've been, and will continue to be, a Wojo supporter...but if they aren't in the NCAA tourney this year he should be gone.
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I don’t think many people had given up on JC. I felt there was more positive than negative. And the negative was couched in the context of the entire teams poor performance at IU.
I think most agreed that he was better suited at PG than MH. And today confirmed that.
Going forward, he won’t play 40 at PG Obviously but most of time. With the rest being a hybrid of Markus, Joey, Sam, Sacar,....
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PC was greatly helped by MU's (mostly) unforced turnovers and poor shooting. PC outscored MU 16-5 on points scored off turnovers and MU was 1-16 on treys with 12:45ish to go. MU was certainly stumbling over its own toes. I'll go with UCLA and Butler easily over PC. Dayton is another story and I would not be shocked if the Blue Hose would win that game. Key for PC is to keep their center #15/Lewis on the floor. He is kind of the glue for PC. PC was 8-8 (and 7 of last 10) last year when Lewis was ruled academically ineligible. PC went 3-13 after that.
Yup, I mentioned in my preseason preview how important Francois Lewis is. He picked up his fourth foul with Presbyterian up 43-40 at about the 11 minute mark. We definitely took advantage and good looks finally started falling, but Lewis coming out of the game didn't hurt, and he didn't even have a particularly productive offensive day.
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Watt if Uncle George had a 'gina? It wood be Auntie Georgia, aina?
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So what are your expectations for this team. Easy to tell everyone to chill...but no one doing so is giving their expectations. I've been, and will continue to be, a Wojo supporter...but if they aren't in the NCAA tourney this year he should be gone.
22-24 wins, top 3 Big East, 5-6 seed. Still on pace for that.
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22-24 wins, top 3 Big East, 5-6 seed. Still on pace for that.
We do that...I'm happy...even in a pitifully down year for the BEAST.
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...….Marquette had been up 37-12 after 12 minutes and then cruised to an 83-64 win? Still would have been 28 minutes of being outscored by Presbyterian.
... Wojo had thought Chartouny was a wasted scholarship like so many on this board seemed to after only 3 games?
It is a long season. Try drinking chamomile tea.
There is no what if.
We were embarrassed by Indiana who is an average Big 10 team.
We struggled for 28 minutes against a Big South conference team that only won 11 games last year, is picked to finish 9th in their conference this year and had 2 freshmen starters play extensive minutes.
It's game 4 of a long season but these last 2 games have provided reasons for concern with this team's play, this team's roster makeup and the coach responsible for our general lack of success of 4 plus years. I am hoping this is just a bump in the road and we look a whole lot better against Kansas.
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What if you took the results, final point spreads, and defensive stats from the 3 cupcakes in a vacuum without the turd that was the IU game?
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401083244
UMBC: 25 pt win, 22% shooting allowed
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401083245
Bethune: 33 pt win, 29% shooting allowed
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=401083246
Presbyterian: 19 pt win, 31% shooting allowed
If we had not played IU yet, the talk would be about how good the defense was, how we were playing better defense against the cupcakes than at any time under Wojo, and as soon as the shooting reverts to the norm, this team is going to be pretty good. Yeah, we might struggle against IU and Kansas, but there is reason for optimism.
Sadly, the turd that is the IU game completely overshadows any of that. MU sucked that night. And with Kansas looming, it is hard to see anything but the suck.
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There is no what if.
We were embarrassed by Indiana who is an average Big 10 team.
We struggled for 28 minutes against a Big South conference team that only won 11 games last year, is picked to finish 9th in their conference this year and had 2 freshmen starters play extensive minutes.
It's game 4 of a long season but these last 2 games have provided reasons for concern with this team's play, this team's roster makeup and the coach responsible for our general lack of success of 4 plus years. I am hoping this is just a bump in the road and we look a whole lot better against Kansas.
How do we know Indiana is an average big ten team? If they win the big ten, does that change anything?
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How do we know Indiana is an average big ten team? If they win the big ten, does that change anything?
I don't know why any one would assume they are an average B1G team at this point. Preseason they were picked to finish third in the conference and since then they've done nothing to disprove that. They certainly looked like a top 15 team to me when they played them. Could be we just made them look that good but I don't think so. Langford and Morgan are studs, Archie is a helluva coach, and they are getting high level production out of their other true freshmen.
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Presbyterian has outperformed expectations in every D1 game they've played this year and scored triple digits in their D2 games. They will contend for their league title and a NCAA bid. Wouldn't at all surprise me if they stole one from UCLA, Butler, or Dayton on the road and we were lucky it wasn't us.
Tip of the Hat Brew, you were on PC right out the Gate.
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I don't know why any one would assume they are an average B1G team at this point. Preseason they were picked to finish third in the conference and since then they've done nothing to disprove that. They certainly looked like a top 15 team to me when they played them. Could be we just made them look that good but I don't think so. Langford and Morgan are studs, Archie is a helluva coach, and they are getting high level production out of their other true freshmen.
Yes Archie is a helluva coach. The problem is we can't say the same about Wojo.
The problem is I don't think Indiana is nearly as good as Michigan St or Michigan but is as good as Wisconsin. The problem is Indiana was missing 4 players. The problem is that we were never in the game. The problem is that their freshmen outplayed our star experienced players. The problem is that this was supposed to be the year that we were supposed to take a step forward and be a very good team. The problem is Howard is not a point guard and yet Wojo is running him out there as one and he proceed to turn the ball over 3 times in the first 2 plus minutes of the game and we looked like a bad team.
I pray this was just a bump in the road and we play competitively against Kansas.
And speaking of Kansas, what is the expectation compared to what should be the expectation? My expectation before the Indiana game was that we were going to be competitive and have at least a chance to win. Now it is no way that we can win but can we be competitive for a good portion of the game and can we lose by less than 15 points.
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The team will learn from Indiana and the intensity needed to compete at a high level.
Hopefully, wojo has learned that chart has to be the point...
Marcus can only do it in spurts...
Joey is already getting a feel for high level college basketball.
The next 6 games or so will tell us if they respond quickly or it will be a long season.
I am hopeful they respond quickly with Joey and chart playing more minutes.
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Yes Archie is a helluva coach. The problem is we can't say the same about Wojo.
The problem is I don't think Indiana is nearly as good as Michigan St or Michigan but is as good as Wisconsin. The problem is Indiana was missing 4 players. The problem is that we were never in the game. The problem is that their freshmen outplayed our star experienced players. The problem is that this was supposed to be the year that we were supposed to take a step forward and be a very good team. The problem is Howard is not a point guard and yet Wojo is running him out there as one and he proceed to turn the ball over 3 times in the first 2 plus minutes of the game and we looked like a bad team.
I pray this was just a bump in the road and we play competitively against Kansas.
And speaking of Kansas, what is the expectation compared to what should be the expectation? My expectation before the Indiana game was that we were going to be competitive and have at least a chance to win. Now it is no way that we can win but can we be competitive for a good portion of the game and can we lose by less than 15 points.
Truth. The "What if" game is really silly. For a minute I thought I was going to open the thread and begin an episode of 30 for 30.
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The team will learn from Indiana and the intensity needed to compete at a high level.
Obviously you don't think much of Wojo. Most of the team has been through the Big East and Wojo should be running high intensity practices at this level. Preparation falls on the coach. Miller had his young team ready for major college basketball.
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The first road game against a quality team can be a misstep...
Chart, Joey, Bailey, Morrow haven’t played at that level or in some cases for a year or 2. Howard is playing out of position.
It’s not nessecarily an indictment of Wojo.
It’s how the team responds that will determine if Wojo has the team going in the right direction.
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Truth. The "What if" game is really silly. For a minute I thought I was going to open the thread and begin an episode of 30 for 30.
Says the guy who constantly asks "What if our coach ignored trying to win basketball games and pampered to younger guys who were nowhere near ready to play Big East basketball 5 years ago?"